Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dm
May 27, 2009 - July 20, 2009
Hi Moe,
Thanks for the response.=C2- I think the challenge will be to get the va
lve removed and the fuel line capped without spraying gas all over the pla
ce.=C2- And then re-installing it.=C2- Any suggestions, short of de-fu
eling the tank..??
=C2-
Randy
=C2-
=C2-
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA=C2- 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
=C2-
From: | owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li |
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: | Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F |
=C2-
Randy,
=C2-
This valve (the twist valve that you access through the small door under
the wing) looks suspiciously like the Eelco valve that I used to shut off
the fuel in my D Altered 57 Chevy. Drag Car equipped with early Hilborn
Injectors=C2-in about 1972
.=C2- Meaning that it was military surplus.=C2-=C2-Most likely=C2-
the valve needs to be=C2-removed and new "o" rings installed.
You are correct that the valve is not listed in the Commander parts book,
which is a very good thing..........................
=C2-
Regards.
=C2-
Moe
N680RR
Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award
=C2-
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
=C2-
The last time I drained fuel from the center tank sump, the valve did not
close completely and fuel continued to drip overboard.=C2- After openin
g and closing several times, the dripping stopped.=C2- I have not opened
the valve since, for fear of it sticking open again.=C2- Has anybody ex
perienced this situation..??=C2- I was unable to identify the valve in
my parts manual.=C2- Is it the same in all Commanders..??=C2- I may
need a replacement valve.=C2- Anyone have one..??=C2- Thanks.
=C2-
Randy Dettmer, AIA
680F / N6253X
=C2-
=C2-
Dettmer Architecture
663 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA=C2- 93405
805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
www.dettmerarchitecture.com
=C2-
date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
2/4/2009 4:35 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Subject: | Commander Down in FL |
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to
me: <http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html>
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html
Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our
"family" goes down...
/J
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Commander Down in FL |
Hi John,
The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162.
The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the
runway.
It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona
Beach, FL and was with them for over 22 years.
As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which
were installed in September 1978.
No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due
course.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article
on to me: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html
Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our
"family" goes down...
/J
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Commander Down in FL |
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Jet fuel???? jb
?
No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 4:53 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
Hi John,
?
The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162.
The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the runway.
?
It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona Beach, FL
and was with them for over 22 years.
As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which were installed
in September 1978.
?
No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course.
?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to me: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html
?
Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our "family"
goes down...
?
/J
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Commander Down in FL |
That was my first thought.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
Jet fuel??? jb
No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 4:53 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
Hi John,
The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162.
The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the runway.
It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona Beach,
FL and was with them for over 22 years.
As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which were
installed in September 1978.
No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum <mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to
me: <http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html>
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html
Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our
"family" goes down...
/J
_____
Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America
<http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal0000000
1> Takes it Off to learn how.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BertBerry1(at)aol.com |
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXG0O-OLH9Q_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXG0O-OLH9Q)
**************Dinner Made Easy Newsletter - Simple Meal Ideas for Your
Family. Sign Up Now!
3Fhttp:%2F%2Frecipes.dinnermadeeasy.com%2F%3FESRC%3D622)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F |
Good Evening Randy,
Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which
the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft
repair stations burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use
plastic containers, be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside
the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the accepting container. Ya can't be
too careful!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Piper PA-20
Downers Grove, Illinois
In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel
from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
MaystepsfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator |
----- The co-pilot's airspeed indicator in a 1978 Shrike is 20 kts
slower than the one on the pilot's side. The mech asked if the pilot and
co-pilot airspeed indicators were connected to seperate pitot tubes. I
checked the only Mantenance manual which I had which was one for a 500B
and I think that both air speed indicators are connected to both pitot
tubes.
Does anyone know for sure?
Kindest regards,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F |
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!!? jb
Ya can't be too careful!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Good Evening Randy,
?
Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which the
fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft repair stations
burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use plastic containers,
be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank
on down into the fuel in?the accepting container. Ya can't be too careful!
?
Happy Skies,
?
Old Bob
Piper PA-20
Downers Grove, Illinois
?
In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net
writes:
Thanks guys.? Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel from the
center tank before draining in to jugs.? Randy.
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator |
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Nope, but they are intended to be connected to separate pilot tubes, but after
this many years who knows??.? Easy to check, just blow into each tube and see
what happens.? If only one moves, you have your answer.? jb
Does anyone know for sure?
-----Original Message-----
From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 8:23 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator
?
----- The co-pilot's airspeed indicator in a 1978 Shrike is 20 kts slower than
the one on the pilot's side. The mech asked if the pilot and co-pilot airspeed
indicators were connected to seperate pitot tubes. I checked the only Mantenance
manual which I had? which was one for a 500B and I think that both air speed
indicators are connected to both pitot tubes.
?
Does anyone know for sure?
?
Kindest regards,
?
Bill
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F |
Neat opportunity to see just how much fuel the ship might REALLY hold
when you refill.
Our 500B took 150 gallons to fill a completely defueled 156 gallon
system once, and 150 gallons another time parked in the opposite
direction at the same pump.
Either we're getting chubby gallons, or maybe we don't really hold 156.
I guess some folks like the simplicity of all the tanks draining into
one, but I sure sometimes miss having fuel squirreled away in other
tanks on a long drive home.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:17 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!! jb
Ya can't be too careful!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Good Evening Randy,
Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into
which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and
aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling
operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a
bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the
accepting container. Ya can't be too careful!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Piper PA-20
Downers Grove, Illinois
In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the
fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F |
I would take the opportunity of an empty fuel system to clamp a clear
hose to the center tank drain, hook the other end of the hose to the
side/top of the fuselage and add 10 US gallons at a time. At each 10
USG increment verify the indication on the fuel gauge as well as mark
the clear hose.
Once all of the above is completed you have a calibrated fuel gauge as
well as a calibration hose so when the fuel is down below dippable range
on the wing you still can verify the exact quantity of fuel in the
center tank using the hose, in a sense dipping the tank.
So if you are from the school that does not trust electrical fuel gauges
then you can still measure (dip) the center tank.
Tom,
the swimmer.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve at Col-East
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Neat opportunity to see just how much fuel the ship might REALLY hold
when you refill.
Our 500B took 150 gallons to fill a completely defueled 156 gallon
system once, and 150 gallons another time parked in the opposite
direction at the same pump.
Either we're getting chubby gallons, or maybe we don't really hold
156.
I guess some folks like the simplicity of all the tanks draining into
one, but I sure sometimes miss having fuel squirreled away in other
tanks on a long drive home.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:17 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!! jb
Ya can't be too careful!
-----Original Message-----
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Good Evening Randy,
Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into
which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and
aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling
operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a
bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the
accepting container. Ya can't be too careful!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Piper PA-20
Downers Grove, Illinois
In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of
the fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
Subject: | Settlement in Gary Tillman's crash |
Hi All, I thought everyone might find this interesting.
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-06-01/story/faa_settles_vilano_c
rash_cases_for_375_million
/John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | This was a good way to end my week... |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Air conditioned and Turbocharged 500B for sale |
I have come to the realization that it would be prudent to part with my 500B. If
anyone is interested, please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com
Myron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Commander 520 parts |
I am cleaning out my hanger and have lower cowlings, engine cylinders and other
parts for a Commander 520.
Please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com if interested.
Myron
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: This was a good way to end my week... |
Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly working...!)
Nice little piece.
But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign
film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work
homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky
mortgage)
How are we going to explain all this to Milt?
I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be
more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to
the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the
world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a
shotgun.
What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance?
Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man!
-S
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Andrea Grove'
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: This was a good way to end my week... |
I must be short sighted as I did not get it.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve W
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly
working...!) Nice little piece.
But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign
film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work
homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky
mortgage)
How are we going to explain all this to Milt?
I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be
more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to
the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the
world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a
shotgun.
What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance?
Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man!
-S
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Andrea Grove'
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: This was a good way to end my week... |
Tom,
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time"
The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is
much more than just giving him a coin.
You are up way to early.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote:
> I must be short sighted as I did not get it.
> Tom
> C-GISS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve W
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
>
> Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly
> working...!) Nice little piece.
>
> But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A
> foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An
> out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably
> forced into a risky mortgage)
>
> How are we going to explain all this to Milt?
>
> I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be
> more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link
> to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one
> about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers
> with a shotgun.
>
> What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance?
> Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man!
>
> -S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nico css
> To: 'Andrea Grove'
> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: This was a good way to end my week... |
ahhh, I could not read the subtitles, thanks.
And yes, 5 hours of sleep is all I could manage last night.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
Tom,
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time"
The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is
much more than just giving him a coin.
You are up way to early.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote:
I must be short sighted as I did not get it.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve W
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly
working...!) Nice little piece.
But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A
foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out
of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into
a risky mortgage)
How are we going to explain all this to Milt?
I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to
be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to
the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the
world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a
shotgun.
What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive
dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man!
-S
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Andrea Grove'
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: This was a good way to end my week... |
So what makes you think I got up early and not that I was getting in
late?
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
Tom,
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time"
The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is
much more than just giving him a coin.
You are up way to early.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote:
I must be short sighted as I did not get it.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve W
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly
working...!) Nice little piece.
But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A
foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out
of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into
a risky mortgage)
How are we going to explain all this to Milt?
I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to
be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to
the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the
world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a
shotgun.
What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive
dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man!
-S
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Andrea Grove'
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Source for Breaker switches? |
From: | Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com> |
Actually this is two questions...
1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring
diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats
actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently the
military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring that goes
nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original wiring was like.
2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the overhead
switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are marginal at
best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round hole style, I'd
like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style breakers.
Marcos
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Source for Breaker switches? |
I probably have what you want
Harry
321 267-3141
avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcos Della
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Source for Breaker switches?
Actually this is two questions...
1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring
diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats
actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently
the military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring
that goes nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original
wiring was like.
2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the
overhead switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are
marginal at best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round
hole style, I'd like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style
breakers.
Marcos
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 520 parts |
Hi,
What other parts you have?
Frits Abbing N777VM
--- On Sat, 6/6/09, mashley2(at)kc.rr.com wrote:
> From: mashley2(at)kc.rr.com <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 parts
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 4:32 AM
> --> Commander-List message posted
> by:
>
> I am cleaning out my hanger and have lower cowlings, engine
> cylinders and other parts for a Commander 520.
>
> Please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com
> if interested.
>
> Myron
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Source for Breaker switches? |
321 267-3141
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcos Della
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Source for Breaker switches?
Actually this is two questions...
1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring
diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats
actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently
the military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring
that goes nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original
wiring was like.
2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the
overhead switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are
marginal at best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round
hole style, I'd like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style
breakers.
Marcos
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Cylinder bolts for the GO-480-B ? Where to find? |
From: | Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com> |
Ok, I'm having problems finding the knurled nuts that hold the cylinder
flanges down on the GO-480-B engine. The few sources I've talked to say
that you need to convert the studs, etc to handle the nuts with the interior
knurled edges rather than the externals like the original nuts (how do you
explain that one. I had to actually see the nuts to understand the
difference).
Anyway, I need quite a few of them and can't find a source. Any pointers?
Marcos
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Cylinder bolts for the GO-480-B ? Where to find? |
Any one know where I can find sump drain Part#V-104 and a gasket to go with
it , part #2630080 . I need two sets to replace leaking out-board Aux fuel
drains. Can`t get them to stop leaking . This is for a 680. Thanks for any
help. Gil Walker
In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:20:23 A.M. Central America Standard T,
mdella(at)gmail.com writes:
Ok, I'm having problems finding the knurled nuts that hold the cylinder
flanges down on the GO-480-B engine. The few sources I've talked to say that
you need to convert the studs, etc to handle the nuts with the interior
knurled edges rather than the externals like the original nuts (how do you
explain that one. I had to actually see the nuts to understand the
difference).
Anyway, I need quite a few of them and can't find a source. Any pointers?
Marcos
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
JunestepsfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Air conditioned and Turbocharged 500B for sale |
Myron contact me at _N560WM(at)aol.com_ (mailto:N560WM(at)aol.com)
AB
In a message dated 6/5/2009 10:32:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mashley2(at)kc.rr.com writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by:
I have come to the realization that it would be prudent to part with my
500B. If anyone is interested, please contact me at
m.ashley@womack-machine.com
Myron
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
**************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell
=99s
full line of laptops.
=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435
8%3Bv)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code
-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was wh
at they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did,
and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Ho
llywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propa
ganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectac
ularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths result
ing. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never he
lp you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA.
That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps
rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the
site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally
misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a
code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was
what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did,
and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high
Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths
resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will
never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA.
That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
No worries, but man, are they getting sneaky. The theme seemed to be:
Communism: The Way to Be American!
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps ri
ghtly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the
site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totall
y misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code
-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was wh
at they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did,
and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Ho
llywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propa
ganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectac
ularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths result
ing. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never he
lp you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA.
That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Nico;
Not me, I read the words and I listened to the words.
I don't see socialism in the song, I see a lot of Americans with a
legitimate gripe. I think if you just look at the recent 'stimulus
package' you can understand. Ask yourself, who's money is it and who is
it going too.
And I am doing quite well thank you, but I agree with them in principle.
I know lots and lots of young parents that are unemployed and
struggling through no fault of their own, many college educated, some
not.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back,
perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I
read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must
accept that I totally misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a
code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that
was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my
granddad did, and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the
high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted
that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of
deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run
it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the
FAA. That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
To: 'Arthur White'
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,
Chat, FAQ,http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Nico,
thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've
had comments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long
reply, this is what I have to say...
The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched a
nerve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that
some (maybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China"
as the enemy, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a
nasty experience a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries
and a woman asked me if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly -
naturally - said she was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from
Jiangxi province in early 2006. I must admit I did not expect the
response I got; that "The [Canadian] government is allowing our jobs to
be shipped there; now you're bringing them [the Chinese] here to take
what few of our jobs remain."
My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although not
quite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I
simmered down I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was
uncalled for, yes, but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to
make a comment like that. which, in turn, got me thinking about the
state of the world and why we are losing our jobs to developing nations.
The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an overwhelming
desire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We want to eat our
cake and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all of us, I hasten
to add, but many of us to varying extents. Most things are made in
China: China has low cost of living, lots of human rights infringements
and blatant abuses, terrible working conditions, poor pay, and, as a
result, can produce things cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten times (or
more) the price it cost the supplier to buy them and, for us, it is
still a bargain. And it is not just products: services too. Call centres
are being shipped to India and the Philippines because labour costs are
lower. Why? Because in today's world, a company has to be hugely
profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits. And we are the
shareholders.
Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there.
Why? Because it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China.
And who shops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to
our own downfall because we want more for less. But will I (me
personally) stop shopping at Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I
may not need them, but I want them. Do I really need that movie? No. Do
I need that rod, reel, Camping equipment that I bought the other day?
No. But I wanted them, so I bought them.
To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the
Chinese worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There
is balance. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a
person or enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from
somewhere, usually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do
we stop it? Governments could introduce protectionist policies and stop
the so-called free trade. Which means the developing nations will
suffer, and developed nations will continue in isolation until inflation
takes them over.
So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after
ourselves, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it
will ever happen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and
permanent mind-shift: instead human nature became looking after others
to our own expense? As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but
think about it. We, very quickly, would become equal. Instead of me
looking after myself, I would have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to
look after. But instead of just having me looking after me, I would have
6.7 billion (less one) people looking after me. Is that socialism? I
suppose it is. And socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and
everybody wants it to the same degree.
And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its
heaven if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell
if one part breaks down.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Arthur White'
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
Nico - you are a leader.... maintain the stance!
heat only gets rid of the dross and allows the pure metal to come out
I admire you brother - I drink coffee out of your mugs every monring!
bobf
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:59 AM, nico css wrote
:
> Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps
> rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off
the
> site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I tota
lly
> misread the context.
>
> Sorry about that.
>
> Nico
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Campbell
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
> *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
>
> I didn=92t get it. What were they wanting? =93Fairness=94? That=92s be
come a
> code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that
was
> what they were wanting. (things like =93my dad is making what my granddad
did,
> and CEOs make millions=94)
>
>
> The problem is, of course, that even if they weren=92t (and given the hig
h
> Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that w
ay.
>
>
> Personally, I=92m tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
> propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
> spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deat
hs
> resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will
> never help you. Even when it does, it=92s a trap.
>
>
> Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FA
A.
> That=92s socialism.
>
>
> *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
> *To:* 'Arthur White'
> *Subject:* Commander-List: Very moving...
>
>
> http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat
, FAQ,
>
> http://www.matro==================
>
> http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
That last line bothered me. Just a resonse.
Socialism is not like a Twin Commander of any variety. And even if it worke
d "perfectly", Its evil.
Whatever the intentions of the people who take over a functioning society a
nd socialize it, the whole thing is based on the idea that people don't pro
duce, they receive it form someone else. In other words, they take as given
that there is some supply of wealth, a big pot of gold, that is being sat
on by the "rich", which can be "shared" by the government , and "that's fai
r".
The natural state of man is poverty. We only get anything because some col
lective "we" produce stuff. That "we" is ultimately the individual, becaus
e there isn't anyone else who's going to do it. Everything we get is beca
use of the wealth that each individual produces. There is no pot of gold.
Instead, people produce and sell a good or service to someone else, who pay
s them approximately what its worth.
As a software engineer for some years, I can attest that most of the time (
almost always) people get back (on average) pretty much what they put in.
Most of the time apparent "unfairness" comes from a failure to understand w
hat the value is that one is produce. Case in point: when the German Democr
atic Republic fell, the CIA (and the DDR ministry of Industry) valued their
economy at about 70% of the value of the German Federal Republic's, on a p
er capita basis. They all based this on the ministry of industry figures w
hich were in turn based on (pretty much accurate) reports of production at
the factory level. By these estimates Trabant was creating more value tha
n Volkswagen.
It wasn't until the DDR fell that it became clear what the fallacy is: A T
rabant is *not* a Volkswagen. In fact, the value of a Trabant when people
had the choice whether or not to buy them was less than the scrap value of
the metal. Every day Trabant workers would come to work, take perfectly goo
d steel and reduce its value by producing a Trabant. They *thought* they w
ere producing, but in fact they were detracting from the national wealth.
The solution ultimately was to shut down Trabant. VW hired and retrained
the workers and now they actually produce something when they go to work. I
n a capitalist system, a company (like GM) that produces inferior goods, or
the wrong goods, will eventually go bankrupt. The stockholders will pay fo
r their folly, and the workers will get rehired doing something more valuab
le. In a socialist system, the State pours more and more resources down a
rat hole.
Socialism removes these signals from the system. Worse than that, it makes
the political system rather than individuals choices the decision maker in
the allocation of resources. This both makes poor decisions in allocation
, but it also corrupts the political system.
Beyond that, it makes each individual a burden, rather than an asset. Ever
wondered why every socialist state since the French revolution has murdere
d a major portion of their population? Simple. Since the State has to sup
port everyone, and since in such a system output falls consistently, ther
e comes the time when rationing is necessary. Since the State doesn't know
how to create wealth (modern socialist states have lived by imitating the i
nventions of the capitalists) it must shed burden. So, eventually, it is ne
cessary to choose who will live and who won't. Just consider the Obama adm
inistrations plans for "reducing costs in the medical system because we are
spending too much". The "savings" are to decide which treatments are "co
st effective", at least partially on the basis of age. The result is that
a 70 year old who could live decades of productive life will be denied medi
cal care because he isn't cost effective, even if it kill him. The Canad
ian cancer mortality rate is another good example. Of course, a lot of soc
ialist governments have been rather more aggressive in "rationing", like th
e 20 million Russians starved to death during the 30s, the people sent to t
he gas in Poland and Germany, the mass starvation and mass executions in Ch
ina, Vietnam, Cambodia, and so many other "paradises".
Finally, since the government becomes the fount from which all resources co
me, serving and manipulating the government becomes, by necessity, the prim
ary activity of everyone. So government the fair arbiter becomes governmen
t the aggressive advocate for whomever has grabbed the power this week. El
ections become corrupt because its *worth* a billion dollars to control the
presidency or congress, etc. Of course, when you put a billion dollars in
, you want at least that much out. So the job of government becomes collec
ting taxes, essentially at gun point to subsidize those who put the current
government in power, with little consideration for a benefit back to thos
e people.
In short, you have a ghastly mess. And it happens every time.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Nico,
thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've had c
omments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long reply, t
his is what I have to say...
The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched a ne
rve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that some (m
aybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China" as the ene
my, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a nasty experienc
e a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries and a woman asked m
e if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly - naturally - said she
was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from Jiangxi province in early 200
6. I must admit I did not expect the response I got; that "The [Canadian] g
overnment is allowing our jobs to be shipped there; now you're bringing the
m [the Chinese] here to take what few of our jobs remain."
My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although not qu
ite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I simmered dow
n I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was uncalled for, yes,
but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to make a comment like that
... which, in turn, got me thinking about the state of the world and why we
are losing our jobs to developing nations.
The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an overwhelming des
ire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We want to eat our cake
and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all of us, I hasten to add, b
ut many of us to varying extents. Most things are made in China: China has
low cost of living, lots of human rights infringements and blatant abuses,
terrible working conditions, poor pay, and, as a result, can produce things
cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten times (or more) the price it cost the sup
plier to buy them and, for us, it is still a bargain. And it is not just pr
oducts: services too. Call centres are being shipped to India and the Phili
ppines because labour costs are lower. Why? Because in today's world, a com
pany has to be hugely profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits.
And we are the shareholders.
Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there. Why? B
ecause it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China. And who sh
ops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to our own downfal
l because we want more for less. But will I (me personally) stop shopping a
t Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I may not need them, but I want th
em. Do I really need that movie? No. Do I need that rod, reel, Camping equi
pment that I bought the other day? No. But I wanted them, so I bought them.
To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the Chine
se worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There is bala
nce. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a person or
enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from somewhere, us
ually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do we stop it? Gover
nments could introduce protectionist policies and stop the so-called free t
rade. Which means the developing nations will suffer, and developed nations
will continue in isolation until inflation takes them over.
So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after ourselv
es, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it will ever hap
pen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and permanent mind-
shift: instead human nature became looking after others to our own expense?
As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but think about it. We, v
ery quickly, would become equal. Instead of me looking after myself, I woul
d have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to look after. But instead of jus
t having me looking after me, I would have 6.7 billion (less one) people lo
oking after me. Is that socialism? I suppose it is. And socialism is fine i
f only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree.
And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its heaven
if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell if one pa
rt breaks down.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css<mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Hey Nico, chart your own course and go with what your own heart and head
tell you.
You won't always be popular(!) but you'll be a free man.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back,
perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I
read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must
accept that I totally misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a
code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that
was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my
granddad did, and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the
high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted
that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of
deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run
it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the
FAA. That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
To: 'Arthur White'
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,
Chat, FAQ,http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
That's my motto also, Steve.
However, when I send stuff out that I haven't read but was moved by the nice
tune, then I need to get slapped on the upside of the head. There were no
lack of volunteers. I like it when people speak their minds. I don't get
offended. If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it and learn. If I am
right, well, everyone should just deal with it. I afford friend and foe the
same I take for myself.
Thanks
Nico
PS. You should be more liberal, Steve. I can't handle you when you get all
conservative on me. :-)
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at
Col-East
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Hey Nico, chart your own course and go with what your own heart and head
tell you.
You won't always be popular(!) but you'll be a free man.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps
rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the
site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally
misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a
code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was
what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did,
and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high
Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths
resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will
never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA.
That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Nico, don't feel like the lone stranger, I fell for it too.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps
rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the
site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally
misread the context.
Sorry about that.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a
code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was
what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did,
and CEOs make millions")
The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high
Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way.
Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading
propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed
spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths
resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will
never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap.
Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA.
That's socialism.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of
these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to
Socialism? Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect
harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not
passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was
"socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to
the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and
everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement
of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of
socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those
in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the
same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour
of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw
people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to
cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room,
but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way
people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the
spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they
couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it
was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long
handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man
asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide
replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt -
but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in
anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the
woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for
her and her situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
That last line bothered me. Just a resonse.
Socialism is not like a Twin Commander of any variety. And even if it
worked "perfectly", Its evil.
Whatever the intentions of the people who take over a functioning
society and socialize it, the whole thing is based on the idea that
people don't produce, they receive it form someone else. In other words,
they take as given that there is some supply of wealth, a big pot of
gold, that is being sat on by the "rich", which can be "shared" by the
government , and "that's fair".
The natural state of man is poverty. We only get anything because
some collective "we" produce stuff. That "we" is ultimately the
individual, because there isn't anyone else who's going to do it.
Everything we get is because of the wealth that each individual
produces. There is no pot of gold. Instead, people produce and sell a
good or service to someone else, who pays them approximately what its
worth.
As a software engineer for some years, I can attest that most of the
time (almost always) people get back (on average) pretty much what they
put in. Most of the time apparent "unfairness" comes from a failure to
understand what the value is that one is produce. Case in point: when
the German Democratic Republic fell, the CIA (and the DDR ministry of
Industry) valued their economy at about 70% of the value of the German
Federal Republic's, on a per capita basis. They all based this on the
ministry of industry figures which were in turn based on (pretty much
accurate) reports of production at the factory level. By these
estimates Trabant was creating more value than Volkswagen.
It wasn't until the DDR fell that it became clear what the fallacy is:
A Trabant is *not* a Volkswagen. In fact, the value of a Trabant when
people had the choice whether or not to buy them was less than the scrap
value of the metal. Every day Trabant workers would come to work, take
perfectly good steel and reduce its value by producing a Trabant. They
*thought* they were producing, but in fact they were detracting from the
national wealth. The solution ultimately was to shut down Trabant. VW
hired and retrained the workers and now they actually produce something
when they go to work. In a capitalist system, a company (like GM) that
produces inferior goods, or the wrong goods, will eventually go
bankrupt. The stockholders will pay for their folly, and the workers
will get rehired doing something more valuable. In a socialist system,
the State pours more and more resources down a rat hole.
Socialism removes these signals from the system. Worse than that, it
makes the political system rather than individuals choices the decision
maker in the allocation of resources. This both makes poor decisions in
allocation, but it also corrupts the political system.
Beyond that, it makes each individual a burden, rather than an asset.
Ever wondered why every socialist state since the French revolution has
murdered a major portion of their population? Simple. Since the State
has to support everyone, and since in such a system output falls
consistently, there comes the time when rationing is necessary. Since
the State doesn't know how to create wealth (modern socialist states
have lived by imitating the inventions of the capitalists) it must shed
burden. So, eventually, it is necessary to choose who will live and who
won't. Just consider the Obama administrations plans for "reducing
costs in the medical system because we are spending too much". The
"savings" are to decide which treatments are "cost effective", at least
partially on the basis of age. The result is that a 70 year old who
could live decades of productive life will be denied medical care
because he isn't cost effective, even if it kill him. The Canadian
cancer mortality rate is another good example. Of course, a lot of
socialist governments have been rather more aggressive in "rationing",
like the 20 million Russians starved to death during the 30s, the people
sent to the gas in Poland and Germany, the mass starvation and mass
executions in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, and so many other "paradises".
Finally, since the government becomes the fount from which all
resources come, serving and manipulating the government becomes, by
necessity, the primary activity of everyone. So government the fair
arbiter becomes government the aggressive advocate for whomever has
grabbed the power this week. Elections become corrupt because its
*worth* a billion dollars to control the presidency or congress, etc.
Of course, when you put a billion dollars in, you want at least that
much out. So the job of government becomes collecting taxes,
essentially at gun point to subsidize those who put the current
government in power, with little consideration for a benefit back to
those people.
In short, you have a ghastly mess. And it happens every time.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:42 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Nico,
thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've
had comments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long
reply, this is what I have to say...
The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched
a nerve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that
some (maybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China"
as the enemy, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a
nasty experience a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries
and a woman asked me if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly -
naturally - said she was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from
Jiangxi province in early 2006. I must admit I did not expect the
response I got; that "The [Canadian] government is allowing our jobs to
be shipped there; now you're bringing them [the Chinese] here to take
what few of our jobs remain."
My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although
not quite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I
simmered down I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was
uncalled for, yes, but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to
make a comment like that. which, in turn, got me thinking about the
state of the world and why we are losing our jobs to developing nations.
The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an
overwhelming desire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We
want to eat our cake and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all
of us, I hasten to add, but many of us to varying extents. Most things
are made in China: China has low cost of living, lots of human rights
infringements and blatant abuses, terrible working conditions, poor pay,
and, as a result, can produce things cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten
times (or more) the price it cost the supplier to buy them and, for us,
it is still a bargain. And it is not just products: services too. Call
centres are being shipped to India and the Philippines because labour
costs are lower. Why? Because in today's world, a company has to be
hugely profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits. And we are
the shareholders.
Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there.
Why? Because it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China.
And who shops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to
our own downfall because we want more for less. But will I (me
personally) stop shopping at Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I
may not need them, but I want them. Do I really need that movie? No. Do
I need that rod, reel, Camping equipment that I bought the other day?
No. But I wanted them, so I bought them.
To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the
Chinese worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There
is balance. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a
person or enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from
somewhere, usually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do
we stop it? Governments could introduce protectionist policies and stop
the so-called free trade. Which means the developing nations will
suffer, and developed nations will continue in isolation until inflation
takes them over.
So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after
ourselves, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it
will ever happen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and
permanent mind-shift: instead human nature became looking after others
to our own expense? As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but
think about it. We, very quickly, would become equal. Instead of me
looking after myself, I would have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to
look after. But instead of just having me looking after me, I would have
6.7 billion (less one) people looking after me. Is that socialism? I
suppose it is. And socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and
everybody wants it to the same degree.
And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its
heaven if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell
if one part breaks down.
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Arthur White'
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Very moving...
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c ; - The Commander-List Emai Search &
Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,
FAQ,http://www.matro==================
=http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be
monitored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out
of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean
counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism
and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still
protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our
freedoms and increase our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a
bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I
not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we
balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The
pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things
seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have
some thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as
it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in
fact many times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out
of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to
Socialism? Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect
harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not
passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was
"socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to
the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and
everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement
of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of
socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those
in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the
same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour
of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw
people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to
cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room,
but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way
people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the
spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they
couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it
was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long
handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man
asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide
replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt
- but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in
anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the
woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for
her and her situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Don-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship
between capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you
can get a copy- do so.
I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take
sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from
an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around
screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in
the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the
current course of action.
I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and
talking-head-infighting.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be
monitored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of
work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters.
In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and
we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our
Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and
increase our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe
but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really
trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all
this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum
swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to
really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some
thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is
written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many
times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of
these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism?
Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect
harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing
judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine
if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If
everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to
the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is
democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where
socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally
voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and
kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of
"heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people
starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As
if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by
fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the
food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once
they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths.
The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food,
same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were
contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed
and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but
I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in
anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in
the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her
situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
I am going to through my 2 cents in.
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/firearms44
Go to the second video. It explains a lot.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S.
Randazzo
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:45 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship
between capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you
can get a copy- do so.
I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take
sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from
an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around
screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in
the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the
current course of action.
I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and
talking-head-infighting.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be
monitored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of
work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters.
In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and
we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our
Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and
increase our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe
but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really
trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all
this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum
swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to
really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some
thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is
written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many
times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of
these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism?
Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect
harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing
judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine
if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If
everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to
the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is
democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where
socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally
voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and
kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of
"heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people
starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As
if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by
fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the
food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once
they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths.
The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food,
same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were
contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed
and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but
I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in
anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in
the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her
situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Amen
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
I am going to through my 2 cents in.
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/firearms44
Go to the second video. It explains a lot.
Jim
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:45 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship bet
ween capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you ca
n get a copy- do so...
I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take si
des- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from a
n economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around scre
aming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in th
e direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the cur
rent course of action.
I like well rounded... Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and ta
lking-head-infighting...
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be mon
itored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of
work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters.
In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and
we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Fr
eedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increa
se our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe
but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really
trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all t
his, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings
, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really ge
t screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it i
s written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact ma
ny times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net<mailto:andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of the
se good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scan
dalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmo
ny - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judge
ment on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if o
nly everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If every
body in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the sa
me degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democ
racy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where sociali
sm has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and
where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "
heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people star
ving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if
to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire,
was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food
was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they f
illed the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The s
econd room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same
surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were content
ed and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and co
ntent. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - bu
t I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthro
pology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the
grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her sit
uation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- The Commander-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
- List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Hi Kids,
The registration packets for the Fly-In will be mailed to members this weekend.?
If you don't receive one and would like one, let us know and we'll be glad to
mail it to you.?
As mentioned previously we will be in Carson City Nevada this year and will combine
our Fly-in with the Reno Air Races.? Because of this it is important that
you book early as rooms and cars will go fast and if you wait until the last
minute there may not be anything available.?
Tentative schedule for the event is as follows:
Wednesday??????????????? Arrival Day and Welcome Dinner
Thursday??????????????????? Seminars and Awards Banquet
Fri, Sat & Sun???????????? Attend Reno Air Races
We have booked a box seat on the flght line at the races.? Cost will be $325 per
person for the entire race event and in addition to the box seat this includes
daily parking, daily pit passes and allows us to bring in a couple of coolers
each day.? The box seat holds up to 15 people so we will need to have you reserve
early so if needed we can obtain another box seat.? You would also have
the option of buying general admission or reserved bleacher seating.?
Looking forward to seeing you all at this event.?
Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside.
Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his
or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was
taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you
are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise
with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue
priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the
drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers
lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get
out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that
as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate
response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to
defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long
Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when
they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting
everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should
pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect
drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with
them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is
justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you
already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on
the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on
board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy
general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to
accomplish that goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes
airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as
well as in the U.S. Click here for
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list
(PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close
to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport
exit, according to
<http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although
some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations
and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about
that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to
provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full
text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of
airports is not the same as a list
<http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND
BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an
aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal."
Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more
ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance
Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the
checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach,
Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an
interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the
Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the
circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP
and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the
Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing
of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became
mandatory on May 18. In an interview
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm
l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory>
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I
would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal.
"While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the
heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within
(CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles,
planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach
police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents
kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of
them had their weapons out," Perry said. More...
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
Oh, and, 14 CFR 91.11:
"No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a
crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an
aircraft being operated."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brock
Lorber
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Am I seeing a similarity to the SS.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Oh, and, 14 CFR 91.11:
"No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a
crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft
being operated."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brock Lorber
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
It means elections have consequences.
The socialist bastards ran against George Ws "excesses in limiting our rights in
the name of security" now we have Napolitano's gestapo doing to law abiding
citizens what they wouldn't tolerate being done to a crackhead in downtown LA.
Funny you don't see any of this in the NYT or on CNN.
After all military veterans are potential terrorists and no one (except politiicians)
should be wealthy enough to own a plane.
You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live with (and
pay for him)
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247934#247934
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Good Morning Milt,
I totally agree with your sentiments.
The problem is, how do we get this thing back to being a Republic?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/13/2009 8:36:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com writes:
You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live
with (and pay for him)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
JunestepsfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Short of armed insurrection we don't.
We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the government than
pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a greater percentage
of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas then rural. Their
wants and needs being totally divergent.
We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a free
democracy.
Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic of
the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named mohammed.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
there is a glimmer of hope. check out the recent elections in Europe -
especially Netherlands.... The winner is a guy so "anti-muslim" that England
has forbidden him to enter the country.... Likewise, elections in England
have tilted right/ Switzerland... there is a limit. Question is -- how much
damage can Zero do which will be hard to or impossible to reverse.
bobf
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:09 AM, N395V wrote:
> >
>
> Short of armed insurrection we don't.
>
> We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the
> government than pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a
> greater percentage of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas
> then rural. Their wants and needs being totally divergent.
>
> We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a
> free democracy.
>
> Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic
> of the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named
> mohammed.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can
go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the
countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish
decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale
scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a
firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no
justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the
rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one
of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of
tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
Robert;
Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that
magazine, tried to pull the article up online, but failed. Will keep my
eye out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it.
Thanks,
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the
relationship between capitalism, greed and government regulation this
past week. If you can get a copy- do so.
I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to
take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is
good from an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those
running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to
wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the
potential pitfalls in the current course of action.
I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and
talking-head-infighting.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D
GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce & Andrew
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must
be monitored lest Greed takes control.
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people
out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean
counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism
and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still
protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our
freedoms and increase our greed.
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a
bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I
not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we
balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The
pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things
seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have
some thoughts.
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as
it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in
fact many times I have trouble telling them apart.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out
of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to
Socialism? Scandalous!
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in
perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm
not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was
"socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to
the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and
everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement
of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of
socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those
in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the
same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim.
I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a
tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw
people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to
cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room,
but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way
people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the
spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they
couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it
was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long
handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man
asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide
replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."
From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the
hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am
interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do -
like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me
feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be.
God bless,
Andrew
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Steve;
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time
frame than we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal
with Jimmy Carter. Past the law but was not effective until almost
twenty years later.
One thing that most don't remember as it did not make much news was
Clinton signing a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same
time frame as all the pardons). Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it
within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes the
Constitution. Rumor had it Slick Willy was trying to be appointed
president of the UN.
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I
can go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One
can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous
persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all
standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in
the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot
fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a
full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't
point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of
the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if
one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit
legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this
kind of tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that
would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
> having inheriting these things
When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at gunpoint.
Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on the news
for a month followed by impeachment proceedings.
Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin. Thing
is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over mostly conservatives.
This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the battlefield
and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and then treats
US citizens like crap.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/21/nation/na-shootdown21
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of N395V
Sent: Sat 6/13/2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fuming Mad!
> having inheriting these things
When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at
gunpoint.
Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on
the news for a month followed by impeachment proceedings.
Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin.
Thing is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over
mostly conservatives.
This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the
battlefield and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and
then treats US citizens like crap.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Very moving... |
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
HI DON.........
Give me a call at 360-903-6901.=C2- Thanks!!=C2- Jim Metzger
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:01 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
Robert;
=C2-
Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that magazi
ne, tried to pull the article up online, but failed.=C2- Will keep my ey
e out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it.
=C2-
Thanks,
=C2-
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving...
Don-
=C2-
The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship be
tween capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week.=C2- If
you can get a copy- do so
=C2-
I=99ve always enjoyed the Economist because they really don=99
t care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of
what is good from an economic standpoint.=C2- This article pokes fun at
those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner
to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the
potential pitfalls in the current course of action.
=C2-
I like well rounded=C2- Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-
bites and talking-head-infighting
=C2-
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
=C2-
From: owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of L D GIROD
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
=C2-
Bruce & Andrew
=C2-
I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be mo
nitored lest Greed takes control.
=C2-
In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out
of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counte
rs.=C2- In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and
Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still prote
cting our Freedoms.=C2- Corruption enters the picture and we loose our
freedoms and increase our greed.
=C2-
I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe
but if I give a thousand dollars=C2-to a PAC it is a donation, am I not
really trying to buy influence?=C2- Once again the question, how do we
balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights.=C2-
The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, thi
ngs seem to really get screwed up.=C2- I don't know the answers, but I
do have some thoughts.=C2-
=C2-
I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it
is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact
many times I have trouble telling them apart.
=C2-
Don
----
- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving...
=C2-
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of th
ese good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Sc
andalous!
=C2-
I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harm
ony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society.=C2-I'm not passin
g judgement on whether it is evil or good.=C2-What I said was "socialism
is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same deg
ree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants soci
alism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the sam
e. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to wo
rk: where socialism has worked=C2-for those in the system=C2-is where
it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example
, monasteries and kibbutzim.
=C2-
I once read an inspirational=C2-story about a man who was taken on a tou
r of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw peop
le starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism
. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded
by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food.=C2-The only way people could
get at the food was with long handled spo
ons, but the spoons were so long that=C2-once they filled the spoon from
the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "hea
ven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire,
same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed.
The man asked his guide why this group was=C2-well-fed and content. His
guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."=C2-=C2-
=C2-
>From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt -
but I do tend to=C2-lean more to the side of=C2-altruism.=C2-I am
interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do -
like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels
bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be.
=C2-
God bless,
Andrew
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= t
he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Anem!!? jb
Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty
supersedes?the Constitution.?
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Steve;
?
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than
we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.?
Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.?
?
One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing
a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all
the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being
sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was
trying to be appointed president of the UN.?
?
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
?
What a mess.
?
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department
was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives
was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating
these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens.
All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on
terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen
as 'soft'.
?
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things,
and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the
new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed
for making us more vulnerable.
?
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play
their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their
massive buildup.
?
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back
to normal.
?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
?
I am fuming mad.
?
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand
if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight,
but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing
with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in
Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day
and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you
don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
?
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests
of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn
weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his
hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane
under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for
a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating
it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do
not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is
just as guilty.
?
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they
are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's
intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect
when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons
pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day?
And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were
that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked
on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown
the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal.
?
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit
of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
?
Nico
?
?
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive
(SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The
list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and
Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive
took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft,"
leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA,
although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy
the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the
airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's
security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance
regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive
has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a
list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in
Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko
also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by
CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information
System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have
the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry
and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there
was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also
said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture
than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS
had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through
eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections.
The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information
for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This
I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While
the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert
of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to
inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told
AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something
Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had
t
heir weapons out," Perry said. More...
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Opps,I meant, AMEN!!
?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty
supersedes?the Constitution.?
-----Original Message-----
From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Steve;
?
We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than
we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.?
Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.?
?
One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing
a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all
the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being
sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was
trying to be appointed president of the UN.?
?
But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"?
?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
?
What a mess.
?
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department
was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives
was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating
these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens.
All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on
terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen
as 'soft'.
?
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things,
and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the
new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed
for making us more vulnerable.
?
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play
their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their
massive buildup.
?
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back
to normal.
?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
?
I am fuming mad.
?
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand
if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight,
but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing
with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in
Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day
and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you
don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
?
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests
of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn
weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his
hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane
under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for
a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating
it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do
not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is
just as guilty.
?
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they
are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's
intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect
when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons
pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day?
And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were
that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked
on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown
the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal.
?
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit
of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
?
Nico
?
?
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive
(SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The
list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and
Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive
took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft,"
leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA,
although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy
the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the
airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's
security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance
regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive
has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a
list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in
Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko
also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by
CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information
System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have
the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry
and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there
was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also
said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture
than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS
had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through
eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections.
The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information
for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This
I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While
the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert
of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to
inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told
AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something
Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had
t
heir weapons out," Perry said. More...
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fuel drains for 680 |
I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3
2630080. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info.
Gil Walker 615-373-5703
**************Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents
available at ditech.com
1%2F)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of
those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make
sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the
acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based
upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making
it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours
without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry
and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the
limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion
on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers
were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was
created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the
manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on
civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum
of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general
aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw
their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint
without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil
rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate
complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you
can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is
clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the
pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at
least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job
of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht
ml
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed?
This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of
conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken
about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing
surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping
us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and
support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these
things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a
box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security
he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't
play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to
their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go
back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside.
Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his
or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was
taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you
are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise
with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue
priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the
drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers
lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get
out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that
as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate
response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to
defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long
Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when
they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting
everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should
pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect
drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with
them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is
justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you
already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on
the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on
board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy
general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to
accomplish that goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes
airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as
well as in the U.S. Click here for
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list
(PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close
to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport
exit, according to
<http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although
some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations
and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about
that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to
provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full
text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of
airports is not the same as a list
<http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND
BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an
aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal."
Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more
ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance
Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the
checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach,
Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an
interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the
Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the
circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP
and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the
Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing
of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became
mandatory on May 18. In an interview
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm
l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory>
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I
would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal.
"While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the
heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within
(CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles,
planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach
police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents
kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of
them had their weapons out," Perry said. More...
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Sept flyin and Convention now on website |
Folks,
The Flyin and convention notice and subscription form is on the website
www.aerocommander.com
Please check it out and let me know if you spot anything that needs to be
fixed or said differently.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "s" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Nico,
I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No
citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention.
Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling.
I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part
of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse
has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The
much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check.
What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person
was affected, one of us.
I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been
individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where
we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very
creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I
hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged
many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety.
Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence
that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to
see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we
used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking
transactions.....
Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems
silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at
powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration,
when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at
the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked.
We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who
filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now.
I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the
abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just
doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the
side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar
powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally
subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be
locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no
recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only
about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe
about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I
avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights
they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent
decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they
executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause
is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first,
which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation
community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops
draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is
reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at
gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse,
violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life,
which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble
opinion, something for which you can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's
interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior
information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would
have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time.
Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1
.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I
can go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One
can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous
persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all
standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in
the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot
fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a
full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't
point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of
the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if
one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit
legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this
kind of tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that
would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
Subject: | Fuel drains for 680 |
reccomendation=2C call gary kromer @ commander aero and talk about replacin
g commander drain with rebuildable cessna 182 drains. i did this last year
and they work well. gmc
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Sun=2C 14 Jun 2009 15:29:23 -0400
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680
I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3 26300
80. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info. G
il Walker 615-373-5703
Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents available at ditec
h.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Thank you for the update, Steve. I'll agree to disagree on some aspects of
your position. It's a hill we don't have to die on.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Nico,
I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No
citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law
abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I think
we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly
authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened
frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil
libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe
different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one of
us.
I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been
individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we
may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to
abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words
liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our
liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma
at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the
front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the
public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic
wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions.....
Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems
silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful
government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing
was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and
those more interested in civil liberties were mocked.
We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who
filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now.
I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of
those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make
sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the
acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based
upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making
it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours
without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry
and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the
limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion
on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers
were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was
created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the
manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on
civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum
of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general
aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw
their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint
without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil
rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate
complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you
can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is
clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the
pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at
least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job
of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht
ml
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed?
This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of
conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken
about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing
surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping
us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and
support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these
things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a
box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security
he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't
play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to
their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go
back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside.
Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his
or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was
taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you
are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise
with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue
priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the
drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers
lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get
out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that
as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate
response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to
defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long
Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when
they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting
everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should
pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect
drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with
them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is
justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you
already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on
the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on
board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy
general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to
accomplish that goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes
airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as
well as in the U.S. Click here
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> for the full list
(PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close
to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport
exit, according <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html>
to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations
and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about
that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to
provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full
text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of
airports is not the same as a list
<http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND
BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an
aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal."
Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more
ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance
Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the
checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach,
Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an
interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the
Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the
circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP
and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the
Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing
of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became
mandatory on May 18. In an interview
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm
l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory>
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I
would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal.
"While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the
heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within
(CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles,
planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach
police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents
kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of
them had their weapons out," Perry said. More...
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | What was he thinking... |
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426
How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life
saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of
people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side
trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would have
cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a
deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many
more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and being
too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a
downdraft.
Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/15/09 |
Mason , Thanks for the info,I`ll give him a call. Again Thanks Gil
In a message dated 6/16/2009 12:57:13 A.M. Central America Standard ,
commander-list(at)matronics.com writes:
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
09-06-15&Archive=Commander
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2009-06-15&Archive=Commander
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/15/09: 5
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Sept flyin and Convention now on website (nico css)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (s)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel drains for 680 (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (nico css)
5. 12:41 PM - What was he thinking... (nico css)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Sept flyin and Convention now on website
Folks,
The Flyin and convention notice and subscription form is on the website
www.aerocommander.com
Please check it out and let me know if you spot anything that needs to be
fixed or said differently.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: "s" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Nico,
I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No
citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention.
Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling.
I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part
of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse
has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The
much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check.
What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person
was affected, one of us.
I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been
individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where
we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very
creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I
hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged
many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety.
Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence
that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to
see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we
used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking
transactions.....
Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems
silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at
powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration,
when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at
the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked.
We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who
filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now.
I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the
abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just
doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the
side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar
powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally
subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be
locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no
recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only
about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe
about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I
avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights
they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent
decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they
executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause
is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first,
which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation
community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops
draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is
reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at
gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse,
violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life,
which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble
opinion, something for which you can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's
interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior
information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would
have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time.
Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1
.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard
out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that
was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts,
bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the
name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to
limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting
these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate,
we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and
Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives
didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed
instead to their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I
can go back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One
can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous
persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all
standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in
the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot
fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a
full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't
point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is
no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of
the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if
one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the
passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling
trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the
officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear
your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your
answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate
for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as
guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect
when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement,
insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then,
Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What
percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or
children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it
will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious
passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where
such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications
were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your
agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you
have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that
goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit
legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this
kind of tyranny.
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA
said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for
the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires
pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to
and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some
airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that
would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their
destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for
information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The
TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and
emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made
public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp
inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was
justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general
aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the
newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System
(eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the
level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David
Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on
Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach
operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that
led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local
police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long
Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online
filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights,
became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb,
Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by
gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by
the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She
said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned
up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law
enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were
slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and
outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She
also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the
operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered,
something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their
weapons out," Perry said. More...
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680
reccomendation=2C call gary kromer @ commander aero and talk about replacin
g commander drain with rebuildable cessna 182 drains. i did this last year
and they work well. gmc
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680
I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3 26300
80. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info. G
il Walker 615-373-5703
Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents available at
ditec
h.com
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Thank you for the update, Steve. I'll agree to disagree on some aspects of
your position. It's a hill we don't have to die on.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Nico,
I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No
citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law
abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I
think
we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly
authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened
frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil
libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe
different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one
of
us.
I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been
individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we
may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to
abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words
liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our
liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma
at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the
front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the
public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic
wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions.....
Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems
silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful
government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing
was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and
those more interested in civil liberties were mocked.
We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who
filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now.
I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Hi Steve.
I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of
those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make
sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the
acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based
upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call
making
it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours
without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry
and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the
limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion
on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers
were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that
was
created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the
manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on
civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum
of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the
general
aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even
police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw
their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable.
Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint
without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil
rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate
complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you
can sue.
The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation,
is
clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the
pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at
least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic
paint-job
of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace.
Nico
The incident:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528
and Russ Niles' blog:
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht
ml
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
NIco,
What a mess.
Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being
formed?
This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of
conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken
about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing
surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping
us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and
support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'.
A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these
things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a
box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security
he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable.
Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't
play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead
to
their massive buildup.
See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go
back to normal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad!
Folks,
I am fuming mad.
The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can
understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on
that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards
similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the
countryside.
Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show
his
or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was
taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you
are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise
with law enforcement.
Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the
rogue
priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the
drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers
lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get
out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived
that
as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate
response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing
to
defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long
Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty.
Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when
they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting
everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should
pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could
expect
drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with
them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is
justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you
already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on
the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on
board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy
general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to
accomplish that goal.
I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate
pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of
tyranny.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR!
So tell me what does this mean for us peons?
As seen in AVweb
A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security
Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list
includes
airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as
well as in the U.S. Click here
<http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> for the full list
(PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain
close
to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or
airport
exit, according
<http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html>
to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient
pilots.
Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would
satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations
and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about
that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to
provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full
text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of
airports is not the same as a list
<http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf>
of
airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft
Security Program.
CUSTOMS
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND
BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK
A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an
aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal."
Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect
more
ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance
Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of
the
checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach,
Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an
interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the
Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the
circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP
and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the
Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in
more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing
of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became
mandatory on May 18. In an interview
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm
l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory>
with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril
by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's
experience
is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This
I
would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach
action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal.
"While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the
heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within
(CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles,
planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long
Beach
police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP
agents
kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of
them had their weapons out," Perry said. More...
<http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander-List: What was he thinking...
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426
How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life
saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of
people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side
trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would
have
cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a
deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many
more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and
being
too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a
downdraft.
Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough.
Nico
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
eExcfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | IO 720 fuel pump and pressure |
Cross posted to fish for IO 720 experience.
Well, my new bird, which apparently the FAA designates as a SW50,is safely snugged
into a heated community hangar at UGN, and I'm eagerly looking forward to
transition traning. However, on the delivery flight,teh rightengine (IO 720) showed
a fuel pressure of 16 psi when running on the engine driven fuel pump which
was recently replaced (for the second time). After the replacement, the fuel
pressure tested fine, but on the short flight to UGN it showed 16 vs a 22 to
25 psi targetrange. The boost pump works in the 22-25 range.
The pump is adjustable, so the pressure can be raised. However, is this likely
the result of a break-in drift in fuel pressure or should I be concerned that
the pump will soon fail? I don't recall a fuel pressure drift after the install
of a new fuel pump on my IO 360, and I'm assuming this is of a similar design.
Thoughts?
Phil
SW50
M20E Turbo
UGN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
Subject: | IO 720 fuel pump and pressure |
would call lycoming for good info. gmc (io-720 also)
> Date: Tue=2C 16 Jun 2009 14:12:56 -0700
> From: philipguziec(at)yahoo.com
> Subject: Commander-List: IO 720 fuel pump and pressure
> To: beech-owners(at)beechcraft.org=3B mooney(at)aviating.com=3B commander-list@
matronics.com=3B lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
>
om>
>
>
> Cross posted to fish for IO 720 experience.
>
> Well=2C my new bird=2C which apparently the FAA designates as a SW50=2C i
s safely snugged into a heated community hangar at UGN=2C and I'm eagerly l
ooking forward to transition traning. However=2C on the delivery flight=2C
teh right engine (IO 720) showed a fuel pressure of 16 psi when running on
the engine driven fuel pump which was recently replaced (for the second ti
me). After the replacement=2C the fuel pressure tested fine=2C but on the
short flight to UGN it showed 16 vs a 22 to 25 psi target range. The boost
pump works in the 22-25 range.
>
> The pump is adjustable=2C so the pressure can be raised. However=2C is t
his likely the result of a break-in drift in fuel pressure or should I be c
oncerned that the pump will soon fail? I don't recall a fuel pressure drif
t after the install of a new fuel pump on my IO 360=2C and I'm assuming thi
s is of a similar design.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Phil
> SW50
> M20E Turbo
> UGN
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | I got better things to do |
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | I got better things to do |
That was really good.
Thanks
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:35 AM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, |
Anybody has any experience with this?
Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning
Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found
A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder
assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris
field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure
history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its
structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor
in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found)
providing only secondary contributing phenomena.
The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the
attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of
Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine.
It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine
flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety
finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics.
Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at
a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some
high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder
attachment structure can be incorporated.
This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance
professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it
for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process
of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see.
His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies
within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have
seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures.
His observations:
"I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310,
A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188,
L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of
them.
Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as
airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite
materials.
I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just
performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it
did, something a Boeing product will not do.
The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is
the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am
not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the
complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash
site.
The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical
fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA.
As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm
in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is
not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft
structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the
presence of instrumentation problems.
I replied with this:
"I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French
officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer
discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air
France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data
sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the
media's focus away from the real problem.
It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the
Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its
origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure
of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to
AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc.
"
His follow-up:
One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has
first-hand experience in the dismantling process.
I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely
stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal
airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are
actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered.
Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts.,
catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open.
The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been
removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off.
Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars
composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite
material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the
elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined
aluminum."
-----------------(end of narrative)---------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "s" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: I got better things to do |
Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this
is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who
gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well
maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And
then a minute or so later he says the same thing.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'White, Art & Carla'
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Runway incursion |
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/faarunwaysafety/BOS021508V3AOPA.swf
Click Play...
(Courtesy of eAOPA)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | I got better things to do |
Hi Steve,
I am sure he loves what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't be there.
Personally, I respect wild animals for what they are and people are,
generally, food to them. One day ...
Thanks,
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: I got better things to do
Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is
going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets
eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so
what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute
or so later he says the same thing.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Subject: | I got better things to do |
Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner
Herzog).
Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and
does not stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his
eyes he is that day's meal.
But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk,
and you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best.
Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that
this time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants."
I'm going for my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical
yet) on a Pietenpol.
Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork
toss up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better
every time, burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct...
In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid
any attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and
temperature on my run up.
I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying,
painting the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by
the fall...
It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a
step closer to a 560!
thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of
you in Reno!
Peter
On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote:
> Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought
> this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple
> years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I
> thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and
> maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nico css
> To: 'White, Art & Carla'
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
>
> http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | I got better things to do |
Way to go, Peter!
Every pilot, without exception, went through 6.5 hrs on his/her logbook. And
look what they have become! Some even flew to the moon and back.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Bichier
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner Herzog).
Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and does not
stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his eyes he is that
day's meal.
But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk, and
you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best.
Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that this
time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants." I'm going for
my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical yet) on a Pietenpol.
Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork toss
up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better every time,
burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct...
In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid any
attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and
temperature on my run up.
I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying, painting
the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by the fall...
It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a step
closer to a 560!
thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of you in
Reno!
Peter
On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote:
Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is
going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets
eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so
what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute
or so later he says the same thing.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve @ CEI" <steve2(at)sover.net> |
Subject: | Re: I got better things to do |
A Pietenpol! Isn't that neat. I've never tried it, but the front pit is
reputed to be one of the few that's tougher to get into than a Cub's...
Good for you! You're flying!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Bichier
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:36 PM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner
Herzog).
Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and
does not stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his eyes
he is that day's meal.
But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk,
and you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best.
Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that
this time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants." I'm
going for my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical yet) on a
Pietenpol.
Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork
toss up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better
every time, burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct...
In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid
any attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and
temperature on my run up.
I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying,
painting the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by
the fall...
It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a
step closer to a 560!
thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of
you in Reno!
Peter
On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote:
Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought
this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years
who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought,
well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it.
And then a minute or so later he says the same thing.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'White, Art & Carla'
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Harry, your Email is bouncing, I need to talk to you.
Tom
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Electric flight. |
The sound may be gone for the first part. Could be just me, though.
This would open up reverse thrust without fear of overheating, too, if the
useful load is worht something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mwqXpAcxk
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com> |
Subject: | Electric flight. |
"il primo pilote electrico!"
Bravo!
Would also help a lot with weight and balance. And STO/VL vectored thrust
would become a lot more practical because the (small, light) electric motor
s could be put in the thrust pods, and all that would be required to tran
smit power would be a cable (probably two).
But I suspect we have a couple of generations of battery technology to go b
efore it is more than a technical tour de force. There is a long way betwe
en "possible" and "practical". Still, it's a milestone.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Electric flight.
The sound may be gone for the first part. Could be just me, though.
This would open up reverse thrust without fear of overheating, too, if the
useful load is worht something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mwqXpAcxk
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Brady" <westwindaero(at)clearwire.net> |
Subject: | Re: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, |
While watching TV coverage of the Airbus that crashed departing LGA a
salvage crew recovered the vert.fin/rudder from the water looking like
new. It obviously separated from the aircraft long before final
impact....whoa I said that's not right. I checked with one of our sons
who works maint. at United ORD who had along with most of his coworkers
been complaining about the so called 'employee owned' company's decision
to buy a bunch of Airbuses which they considered accidents made out of
shit waiting for a place to happen. I told him what I had seen & he said
he wasn't supprised as they had been fighting with management & the FAA
that the attach points were mickey-mouse & proper inspections were a
major project so the inspection process was changed to merely a visual
look at the external skins. When the SA to EUR flight was reported down
in turbulent conditions I said to some fellow pilots "I wonder if
they'll find a pristine fin/rudder floating in the Atlantic?". Today an
Airbus went down off the coast of Africa attempting a landing in
turbulent conditions. In the LGA crash the NTSB said it was caused by
the aircrew overreacting to wake turbulence by applying full rudder
deflection. We had always been told that in a stall condition or low
airspeed encounters with turbulence all aircraft were designed so that
full deflection of any control surface could not result in damage to the
control or its attach points.....they have now begun revising the
training procedures. I guess that's cheaper than building a safe
airplane. Dan the desert duck 77B
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com ; rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Anybody has any experience with this?
Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning
Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found
A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical
fin/rudder
assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main
debris
field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the
failure
history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of
its
structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause
factor
in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if
found)
providing only secondary contributing phenomena.
The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in
the
attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of
Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine.
It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in
routine
flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that
safety
finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and
economics.
Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed,
requiring at
a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding
of some
high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical
fin/rudder
attachment structure can be incorporated.
This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a
maintenance
professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been
at it
for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the
process
of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see.
His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural
deficiencies
within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who
have
seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures.
His observations:
"I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from
A-310,
A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188,
L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred
of
them.
Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as
airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize
composite
materials.
I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I
just
performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as
it
did, something a Boeing product will not do.
The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and
elevators is
the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and
I am
not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the
complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the
crash
site.
The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a
vertical
fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with
AA.
As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a
thunderstorm
in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity.
It is
not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an
aircraft
structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the
presence of instrumentation problems.
I replied with this:
"I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by
French
officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer
discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air
France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air
data
sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts
the
media's focus away from the real problem.
It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into
the
Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by
its
origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early
failure
of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet
prior to
AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased,
etc.
"
His follow-up:
One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has
first-hand experience in the dismantling process.
I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was
absolutely
stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal
airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum
are
actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They
shattered.
Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70
kts.,
catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open.
The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been
removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off.
Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars
composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite
material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the
elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of
machined
aluminum."
-----------------(end of narrative)---------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Brady" <westwindaero(at)clearwire.net> |
Subject: | FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, |
Not sure if this went through or not, as I didn't see it in my club
mail.\
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brady
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:31 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
While watching TV coverage of the Airbus that crashed departing LGA a
salvage crew recovered the vert.fin/rudder from the water looking like
new. It obviously separated from the aircraft long before final
impact....whoa I said that's not right. I checked with one of our sons
who works maint. at United ORD who had along with most of his coworkers
been complaining about the so called 'employee owned' company's decision
to buy a bunch of Airbuses which they considered accidents made out of
shit waiting for a place to happen. I told him what I had seen & he said
he wasn't supprised as they had been fighting with management & the FAA
that the attach points were mickey-mouse & proper inspections were a
major project so the inspection process was changed to merely a visual
look at the external skins. When the SA to EUR flight was reported down
in turbulent conditions I said to some fellow pilots "I wonder if
they'll find a pristine fin/rudder floating in the Atlantic?". Today an
Airbus went down off the coast of Africa attempting a landing in
turbulent conditions. In the LGA crash the NTSB said it was caused by
the aircrew overreacting to wake turbulence by applying full rudder
deflection. We had always been told that in a stall condition or low
airspeed encounters with turbulence all aircraft were designed so that
full deflection of any control surface could not result in damage to the
control or its attach points.....they have now begun revising the
training procedures. I guess that's cheaper than building a safe
airplane. Dan the desert duck 77B
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com ; rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Anybody has any experience with this?
Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning
Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found
A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical
fin/rudder
assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main
debris
field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the
failure
history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of
its
structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause
factor
in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if
found)
providing only secondary contributing phenomena.
The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in
the
attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of
Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine.
It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in
routine
flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that
safety
finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and
economics.
Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed,
requiring at
a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding
of some
high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical
fin/rudder
attachment structure can be incorporated.
This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a
maintenance
professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been
at it
for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the
process
of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see.
His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural
deficiencies
within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who
have
seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures.
His observations:
"I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from
A-310,
A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188,
L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred
of
them.
Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as
airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize
composite
materials.
I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I
just
performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as
it
did, something a Boeing product will not do.
The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and
elevators is
the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and
I am
not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the
complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the
crash
site.
The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a
vertical
fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with
AA.
As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a
thunderstorm
in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity.
It is
not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an
aircraft
structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the
presence of instrumentation problems.
I replied with this:
"I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by
French
officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer
discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air
France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air
data
sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts
the
media's focus away from the real problem.
It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into
the
Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by
its
origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early
failure
of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet
prior to
AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased,
etc.
"
His follow-up:
One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has
first-hand experience in the dismantling process.
I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was
absolutely
stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal
airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum
are
actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They
shattered.
Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70
kts.,
catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open.
The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been
removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off.
Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars
composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite
material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the
elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of
machined
aluminum."
-----------------(end of narrative)---------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Some aviation videos |
Cub landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PWMKjgr24
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PWMKjgr24&feature=related>
&feature=related
Scully Levin with his Harvard Team in South Africa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01E_6oxvlQA
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01E_6oxvlQA&NR=1> &NR=1
Launching float plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK-UqlGhOU
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK-UqlGhOU&NR=1> &NR=1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Weird runway crossing |
http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.ht
ml
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Weird runway crossing |
Good Morning Nico,
Just as a bit of trivia, in years past, Sepulveda Boulevard crossed the LAX
airport on the surface instead of via a tunnel as it does now. There were
railroad style gates at the north and south sides of the airport. When a
very heavily laden aircraft wished to depart, the gates were lowered and we
just ripped on across Sepulveda until we managed to get the beast airborne!
Aw, for the good old days.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/6/2009 9:14:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
_http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.h
tml_
(http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.html)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
yExcfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Weird runway crossing |
Very interesting.
I was thinking, how about you writing your memoirs for posterity, Bob. It
would make great reading for a generation that would never in their wildest
dreams be able to conceive what it was like in the old days. I find it
useful to scan through my log book, which usually brings back the
particulars of a flight. I'd love to serialize them on the website with your
permission. What do you think?
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird runway crossing
Good Morning Nico,
Just as a bit of trivia, in years past, Sepulveda Boulevard crossed the LAX
airport on the surface instead of via a tunnel as it does now. There were
railroad style gates at the north and south sides of the airport. When a
very heavily laden aircraft wished to depart, the gates were lowered and we
just ripped on across Sepulveda until we managed to get the beast airborne!
Aw, for the good old days.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/6/2009 9:14:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.ht
ml
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
_____
An0126575x1222377077x1201454398/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm
/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JulyExcfooterNO62>See Yours in
Just 2 Easy Steps!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Weird runway crossing |
Good Morning Nico,
You are very kind, but these old man musings are strictly for fun!
If you care to collect anything I have written, I would be honored to know
that you have the interest. Anything I have ever sent over the internet is
certainly in the public domain and open to whatever anyone wants to do with
it.
Thanks again.
Hope to get to meet you and many others on this list some time soon.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/6/2009 10:22:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Very interesting.
I was thinking, how about you writing your memoirs for posterity, Bob. It
would make great reading for a generation that would never in their wildest
dreams be able to conceive what it was like in the old days. I find it
useful to scan through my log book, which usually brings back the particulars
of a flight. I'd love to serialize them on the website with your
permission. What do you think?
Thanks
Nico
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
yExcfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a ye
ar in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with rebuilt engi
nes and props.- Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all the
problems sorted out.- Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining issue
s and she should be up for fun and adventure.- Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
Tom
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Tom,
You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
Ohio.
(www.commander-aero.com)
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
Tom
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out
there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
Hi Tom,
You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
Ohio.
(www.commander-aero.com)
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
Tom
C-GISS
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Tom,
Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you
need?
Regards,
Stan
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out
there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Collman
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
Hi Tom,
You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
Ohio.
(www.commander-aero.com)
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
Tom
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Both.
Tom.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you
> need?
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
> Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out
> there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander.
> Tom.
> C-GISS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Collman
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
> Ohio.
> (www.commander-aero.com)
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Fisher
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
> Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
>
>
> Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
>
> Tom
> C-GISS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | swperk(at)earthlink.net |
Hi Tom,
I asked because I have the right-hand winglet from an 840, but not the left-hand
one. I don't know if it would even fit your application, but if you need it
(or know someone who does) let me know.
Regards,
Stan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>Sent: Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM
>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
>
>Both.
>Tom.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
>
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you
>> need?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stan
>>
>> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>
>> Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out
>> there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander.
>> Tom.
>> C-GISS
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Barry Collman
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
>> Ohio.
>> (www.commander-aero.com)
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Barry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tom Fisher
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
>> Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
>>
>>
>> Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
>>
>> Tom
>> C-GISS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Kirkwood <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com> |
Also 560E, N4618E, stored for over a year near El Paso, TX, is back with
new engines and props.
> Hello gang,
>
> Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over
> a year in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with
> rebuilt engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job
> getting all the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up
> the remaining issues and she should be up for fun and adventure.
> Maybe even a trip for the annual get together.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Well I need (want) the pair but now the word is out for yours, thanks.
Tom...
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I asked because I have the right-hand winglet from an 840, but not the
> left-hand one. I don't know if it would even fit your application, but if
> you need it (or know someone who does) let me know.
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>>Sent: Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM
>>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>
>>
>>
>>Both.
>>Tom.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
>>To:
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM
>>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do
>>> you
>>> need?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stan
>>>
>>> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
>>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>>
>>> Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out
>>> there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander.
>>> Tom.
>>> C-GISS
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Barry Collman
>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport,
>>> Ohio.
>>> (www.commander-aero.com)
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Barry
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Tom Fisher
>>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM
>>> Subject: Commander-List: Winglets
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information?
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> C-GISS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bill & Craig,
Good news guys!
I'm sure we all agree that to hear of two Commanders restored to an
airworthy condition is great to hear.
Bill's 560E was owned from new for nearly 10 years by Douglas Aircraft
Co/McDonnell Douglas.
Craig's 560F was owned for just over 40 years by a single owner, Hoover
Inc., of Nashville, Tennessee.
Hope to see them both at Reno!
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kirkwood" <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
|
| Also 560E, N4618E, stored for over a year near El Paso, TX, is back
with new engines and props.
|
| > Hello gang,
| >
| > Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for
over a year in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with
| > rebuilt engines and props.
| > Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all the problems
sorted out.
| > Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining issues and she should
be up for fun and adventure.
| > Maybe even a trip for the annual get together.
| >
| > Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Commander 680 FLP |
Clear DayHello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details,
part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be
found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our
maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in
Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine
wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by
the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was
normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve
and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel
well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering.
Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into
the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No
damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Subject: | Commander 680 FLP |
Ray-
Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some of us
with similar systems to identify and learn.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion
has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance
folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details,
part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found
or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy
at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and
knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently
lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well
broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the
connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium
tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of
the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all
hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham,
AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the
taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The
boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP.
Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE |
Clear Day I experienced a complete hydraulic failure three weeks ago. I
noticed the hydraulic pressure fluctuating between 500 and 450 psi. I
pulled the Aux. Hyd. Circuit Breaker and saved some fluid. I didn't
follow Wing Commander Gordon's advice- Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima
Culpa.
I was surprised how slow one must fly for the nose wheel to extend.
About 80 kts. Made a no flap, landing and held the nose off until about
30 kts. and turned off of the runway. I had a little hydraulic fluid
left and the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes. Once clear of the
runway, I shut it down and got a tow to the ramp.
The culprit was the hydraulic pressure switch in the left nacelle under
the Hydraulic Reservoir. There was no metal in the filter but we changed
both pumps and replaced the switch. There was also a small leak in a
hydraulic line similar to the one described by Ray Mayfield; we changed
that one also.
Kindest regards,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, 07 July, 2009 22:18
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Ray-
Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some
of us with similar systems to identify and learn.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal
can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our
maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in
Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine
wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by
the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was
normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve
and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel
well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering.
Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into
the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No
damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP |
Clear DayHi Robert,
Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the offending hyd line. Didn't
think to take a px when it was off the plane. The plane is in Ft.
Payne, AL now and I'm in Destin, FL so can't get a px at the moment.
Besides, it's real hard to see the line where it's located. It's just
forward of the accumulator in the left wheel well. One end is attached
to what I believe to be the pressure switch for the aux hyd pump, and
that's where it broke.
Ray M.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert S. Randazzo
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Ray-
Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some
of us with similar systems to identify and learn.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal
can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our
maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in
Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine
wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by
the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was
normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve
and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel
well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering.
Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into
the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No
damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP |
Clear DayThank you your notice I will check the line today.
I too have a deteriorating engine mount and need another, when you find
a source please share that with us.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mansfield
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal
can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our
maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in
Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine
wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by
the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was
normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve
and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel
well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering.
Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into
the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No
damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP |
Clear DayThanks Tom. Will let you know if I find a source.
RM
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Thank you your notice I will check the line today.
I too have a deteriorating engine mount and need another, when you
find a source please share that with us.
Tom
C-GISS
680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mansfield
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal
can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our
maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in
Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine
wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by
the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was
normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve
and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel
well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering.
Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into
the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No
damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
Subject: | Commander 680 FLP |
lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will
get you home. gmc
From: hcourier(at)cox.net
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Tue=2C 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500
Hello Commander website folks=2C
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion
has been found on the left engine=2C left side motor mount. The maintenanc
e folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details=2C
part nos=2C etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be foun
d or think you might have one=2C please call Brent Cowart=2C our maintenanc
e guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne=2C A
L and knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners=2C MR RPM conversion. I recentl
y lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well b
roke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the
connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tu
bing=2C not very long=2C about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front
of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hyd
raulic fluid=2C gear=2C flaps=2C brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham
=2C AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the
taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The
boss was on board=2C but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP.
Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP |
What happened to MRRPMPerformance.com???
Their web site is down. The name seems to be available.
Didn't they hold the Mr RPM STC's?
Tylor Hall
On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:15 AM, MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
> lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor
> line will get you home. gmc
>
> From: hcourier(at)cox.net
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500
>
> Hello Commander website folks,
>
> The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
> corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount.
> The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be
> replaced.
>
> Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
> details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an
> animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent
> Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of
> Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details
> about the engine mount.
>
> You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
>
> A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
> recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left
> engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was
> secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part
> other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5"
> with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft
> area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear,
> flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a
> long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and
> ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss
> was on board, but he's a cool guy.
>
> You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
> 680FLP. Call me if you want more details.
>
>
> Ray Mansfield
> 850-217-5185
> N91ES
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP |
Good Morning All,
Just a comment on hydraulic lines in general.
It was just a few months after the DC-10 was introduced to service when one
took off out of MIA and experienced a hydraulic system failure. The
captain declared his emergency and returned to MIA as expeditiously as possible.
When he landed two of the systems were totally inoperative and the third
was almost out of fluid. Another couple of minutes and the airplane would
have been uncontrollable.
It seems that all three of the hydraulic systems were mounted with slightly
flexible mounts to the aircraft structure, but all of the hydraulic lines
were solid tubing.
The primary unit failed.
The secondary took over as it should but the additional strain failed one
of it's supply tubes as well.
The third system was supplying control, but a crack developed in it's
tubing and fluid was being lost. I may have some of the details all wrong, but
the fix was to replace all of the connecting tubing with flexible lines in
lieu of the fixed tubing.
It was a fleet wide mandatory immediate action AD.
If the short tubing in the Aero Commander could possibly be replaced with a
hunk of high quality flexible tubing, it is certainly something I would
consider doing!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/8/2009 8:42:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kamala(at)MSN.COM writes:
lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will
get you home. gmc
____________________________________
From: hcourier(at)cox.net
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion
has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance
folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details,
part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found
or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy
at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and
knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently
lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well
broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the
connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium
tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of
the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all
hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham,
AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway
and
ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on
board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP.
Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
**************Popular laptop deals plus free shipping!
plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Commander 680 FLP |
From: | "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com> |
Yoda replaced that line on 400CH with flexible line for the exact same
reason. It wasn't leaking, but the pressure regulator was. When we
took out the regulator so that he could cut new gaskets for it, we
discovered that the flare was cut through about 40% of the way around.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed 7/8/2009 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Good Morning All,
Just a comment on hydraulic lines in general.
It was just a few months after the DC-10 was introduced to service when
one
took off out of MIA and experienced a hydraulic system failure. The
captain declared his emergency and returned to MIA as expeditiously as
possible.
When he landed two of the systems were totally inoperative and the
third
was almost out of fluid. Another couple of minutes and the airplane
would
have been uncontrollable.
It seems that all three of the hydraulic systems were mounted with
slightly
flexible mounts to the aircraft structure, but all of the hydraulic
lines
were solid tubing.
The primary unit failed.
The secondary took over as it should but the additional strain failed
one
of it's supply tubes as well.
The third system was supplying control, but a crack developed in it's
tubing and fluid was being lost. I may have some of the details all
wrong, but
the fix was to replace all of the connecting tubing with flexible lines
in
lieu of the fixed tubing.
It was a fleet wide mandatory immediate action AD.
If the short tubing in the Aero Commander could possibly be replaced
with a
hunk of high quality flexible tubing, it is certainly something I would
consider doing!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 7/8/2009 8:42:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kamala(at)MSN.COM writes:
lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line
will
get you home. gmc
____________________________________
From: hcourier(at)cox.net
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500
Hello Commander website folks,
The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some
corrosion
has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The
maintenance
folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the
details,
part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be
found
or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance
guy
at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL
and
knows part nos and details about the engine mount.
You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I
recently
lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well
broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to
the
connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal
aluminium
tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in
front of
the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all
hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at
Birmingham,
AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the
taxiway and
ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was
on
board, but he's a cool guy.
You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a
680FLP.
Call me if you want more details.
Ray Mansfield
850-217-5185
N91ES
**************Popular laptop deals plus free shipping!
plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ray Mansfeld <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Commander 680 FLP |
Did the part have a yellow tag or a GREEN tag? Ha! Ha!
---- MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:
>
> lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will get
you home. gmc
>
>
> From: hcourier(at)cox.net
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500
>
>
>
>
> Hello Commander website folks,
>
> The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has
been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks
say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced.
>
> Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part
nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think
you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129.
He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos
and details about the engine mount.
>
> You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier.
>
> A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost
all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke.
It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector.
I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very
long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in
the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps,
brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there.
Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop.
No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy.
>
> You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call
me if you want more details.
>
>
>
> Ray Mansfield
> 850-217-5185
> N91ES
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE |
From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
> the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes
FLPs have power brakes?????????????????????????????
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE |
I think that all of them have power brakes.
Bill
---- N395V wrote:
>
>
> > the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes
>
>
> FLPs have power brakes?????????????????????????????
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE |
I have read that Bob Hoover has only two mods to his Strike, one an electric
un-feather pump and two an electric aux. hyd. pump so he had brakes when
flying with both engines feathered.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE
>
> I think that all of them have power brakes.
>
> Bill
>
>
> ---- N395V wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes
>>
>>
>> FLPs have power brakes?????????????????????????????
>>
>> --------
>> Milt
>> 2003 F1 Rocket
>> 2006 Radial Rocket
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | yourtcfg(at)aol.com |
Hi All,
Just a reminder to make your hotel reservations for the Fly-In if you haven't done
so already!!!!!? Rooms are filling up fast so make sure you get yours reserved.
~jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
WCG-
I've got my room reservation made. Comes complete with home cooked meals, a
lovely wife and a golden retriever to keep my feet warm.
Looking forward to seeing all of you in our home town.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In
Hi All,
Just a reminder to make your hotel reservations for the Fly-In if you
haven't done so already!!!!! Rooms are filling up fast so make sure you get
yours reserved.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Manuscript Submitted |
Hello everybody,
My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for
review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not.
Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I
decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my
thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce
Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me
know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310
R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do
so?
Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a
Commander in this book.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com> |
Subject: | Manuscript Submitted |
Andrew-
Well done! I had no idea you writing- but I've touched wood on your behalf.
I have tremendous admiration for anyone who can write something of that
length.
Please be sure to let us know when you succeed in getting published. Will
gladly pick up a copy even if it makes no mention of a commander.
Robert S. Randazzo
N414C
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted
Hello everybody,
My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for
review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not.
Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I
decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my
thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce
Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me
know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R.
Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so?
Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander
in this book.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Manuscript Submitted |
Hi Andrew.
It would be an honor.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted
Hello everybody,
My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for
review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not.
Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I
decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my
thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce
Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me
know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R.
Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so?
Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander
in this book.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Submitted |
Fine by me, I look forward to reading it.
Tom
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted
Hello everybody,
My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for
review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not.
Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I
decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my
thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce
Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me
know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310
R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do
so?
Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a
Commander in this book.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Submitted |
Andrew;
Fine by me also, I will you in my thoughts.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted
Hello everybody,
My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for
review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not.
Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I
decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my
thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce
Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me
know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310
R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do
so?
Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a
Commander in this book.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Right of the People |
I found this article by Paul Berge in Pacific Flyer (www.pacificflyer.com)
in the July 2009 edition. Paul has been my favorite aviation author for a
long time.
-------------------------------
They gathered in a circle beneath the hangar's dusty shop lamp. Shadows
forced Curtis to shift to keep the newspaper in the light.
"Read it again," someone asked in a soft voice. Curtis cleared his throat
before reading the newly ratified amendment to the Constitution: "A well
regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of
the people to keep and fly Aircraft, shall not be infringed."
"Man, that's good," Jean muttered. "And all in one sentence. Did you notice?
That's good writing. How many words in it?"
Curtiss counted and answered, "Twenty-seven." And they all stood quietly
considering the impact of those few words that seemed to guarantee their
right - not merely a privilege - to fly.
"Shall not be infringed, " Doug repeated. His voice rolled up from some deep
recess, gaining power as it left his mouth,. "That means we - the people -
got the right to fly, and no one, not even TSA, can take it away; 'bout damn
time, too."
And most of the crowd mumbled agreement, except Thomas who frowned and asked
to see the paper. He read it slowly to himself before saying, "This first
part concerns me." He tapped the paper with a finger.
"The way it starts, 'A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security
of a free State...'"
"So what?" Doug interrupted. "Makes sense to have some rules, like we
already got for IFR, VFR, right-of-way and such..."
"Just concerns me," Thomas hesitated. "Like, maybe, the government might
point to the 'well-regulated' part whenever it wants to clamp down .."
"Shall not be infringed," Doug struck back. "That means we fly what we own,
and they got nothin' to say about it!" The vehemence with which he defended
the phrase masked an unspoken fear.
Thomas shook his head.
"Remember when TSA made us all get these silly badges just to get to our own
hangars?" He flicked the tag clipped to his overalls. "They decide what's
well regulated."
Doug slowly unclipped his security badge, smiled and tossed it to the floor.
The other stood in awe witnessing what they knew as an FAR violation.
Doug drew up his full six-foot-two-inch height and ground the offending
badge beneath his boot heel. Jean was next, and after she flung her security
badge to the oily pavement the other pilots threw theirs into a loose pile.
Only Thomas remained still wearing his badge. The clack on an air compressor
kicking on covered an uncomfortable silence.
But by the time it quit Thomas had gathered the badges and, adding his own,
dropped them into a trashcan. Once outside the hangar with the aerodrome
beacon flashing overhead, he drizzled avgas over them.
And then, before dropping a lit match, he intoned, "Shall not be infringed!"
It'd be left to future generations of pilots to decide if it was the
Constitutional amendment or the People's interpretation that saved aviation.
But on that July 4th evening a handful of rebel pilots declared independence
from tyranny.
-----------------------------
That about says it, Paul.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
Sir Barry=2C I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping tha
t on July 11=2C 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in acciden
t at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. gm
c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)deneals.com> |
On 7/13/09 11:43 AM, "MASON CHEVAILLIER" wrote:
> Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping tha
t on
> July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in accident at
AXX.
> Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a mess.
Glad everyone=B9s okay.
These are indeed, tough birds.
--
Deneal Schilmeister, ATP Learjet
St. Louis
http://deneals.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Mason,
Oh heck.
So sorry to hear about the accident and that '70QT is a mess.
But, I'm thankful that nobody was hurt.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping
that on July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in
accident at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a
mess. gmc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Mason,
What happened?
Tylor Hall
On Jul 13, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Barry Collman wrote:
> Hi Mason,
>
> Oh heck.
> So sorry to hear about the accident and that '70QT is a mess.
> But, I'm thankful that nobody was hurt.
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
> To: commander-list
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:43 PM
> Subject: Commander-List:
>
> Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record
> keeping that on July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was
> involved in accident at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were
> unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. gmc
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | FW: You've received a photo from facebook.com! DON'T OPEN |
AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES
Folks,
This message most likely contains links to viruses. My understanding is that
Facebook doesn't send photos to the public, only subscribers do. Just delete
it when it shows up in your mailbox with this subject matter.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: franco(at)server.18carati.com [mailto:franco(at)server.18carati.com] On
Behalf Of facebook.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:24 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: FW: You've received a photo from facebook.com! DON'T |
OPEN AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES
Nico - thanks for posting this. TELUS (my company) marks it as spam and
also advise not to click on the link. God bless, Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: 'Art & Carla White'
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:10 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: You've received a photo from
facebook.com! DON'T OPEN AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES
Folks,
This message most likely contains links to viruses. My understanding
is that Facebook doesn't send photos to the public, only subscribers do.
Just delete it when it shows up in your mailbox with this subject
matter.
Thanks
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: franco(at)server.18carati.com [mailto:franco(at)server.18carati.com]
On Behalf Of facebook.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:24 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't
find the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to
make metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: IO720 engine |
I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check
and don't know if it's still there.
Ray M
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't
find the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to
make metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
tom=2C both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale=2C I can't fin
d the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make
metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: IO720 engine |
I'm sorry Mason, I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in the
ocean.
Keep me advised, I feel for you, glad you are unhurt physically.
Tom.
C-GISS
cell:604-649-9320
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine
tom, both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't
find the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to
make metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: IO720 engine |
I'll look, thanks.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mansfield
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine
I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check
and don't know if it's still there.
Ray M
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I
can't find the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting
to make metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: IO720 engine |
Mason, are you raising my insurance premiums?
Glad you are OK!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine
I'm sorry Mason, I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in
the ocean.
Keep me advised, I feel for you, glad you are unhurt physically.
Tom.
C-GISS
cell:604-649-9320
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
To: commander-list
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine
tom, both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I
can't find the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting
to make metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> |
sorry!
From: dongirod(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 15:26:11 -0700
Mason=2C are you raising my insurance premiums?
Glad you are OK!
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Fisher
Sent: Wednesday=2C July 15=2C 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine
I'm sorry Mason=2C I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in the o
cean.
Keep me advised=2C I feel for you=2C glad you are unhurt physically.
Tom.
C-GISS
cell:604-649-9320
----- Original Message -----
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER
Sent: Wednesday=2C July 15=2C 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine
tom=2C both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale=2C I can't fin
d the related Email.
I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make
metal.
Tom.
C-GISS
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au |
Subject: | Re: IO720 engine |
Folks,
The eBay listing was for two firewall forward IO 720 from a scrapped 500S, the
engine and prop details read well, as I recall here was no bid at about $16,000
each for the package.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ray Mansfield wrote:
>
> I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check
> and don't know if it's still there.
> Ray M
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Fisher
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine
>
>
> Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't
> find the related Email.
> I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to
> make metal.
>
> Tom.
> C-GISS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Anyone know about the engine driven vacuum pumps on 500a's? Any parts
out there for these old oil lubed pumps? Anybody have approval to
rebuild and are kits available? Just another shot in the dark... Have an
aro (aero) design part no. 4850176-3, model # 21217, alcoa # 505-c2d.
Thanks for any input!
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Manuscript Accepted |
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky"
- now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks
for all your help.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Accepted |
Andrew;
Congratulations!
God Bless, Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:44 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the
Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract.
Thanks for all your help.
God bless,
Andrew
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/16/09 18:00:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Subject: | Manuscript Accepted |
Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to have
copy, signed if possible.
THanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" -
now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all
your help.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com> |
Thanks on the Vac pump post... Found one new for $600.00. Have a Great
DAY!!!
William D. Owens, GISP
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Accepted |
Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy!
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to
have copy, signed if possible.
THanks
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the
Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract.
Thanks for all your help.
God bless,
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Accepted |
Well thank you very much, I am waiting with baited breath.
Tom.
C-GISS
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy!
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to
have copy, signed if possible.
THanks
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the
Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract.
Thanks for all your help.
God bless,
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
The website is off-line for a few hours. This is to facilitate a better
hosting platform that will put me in a position to respond more readily to
changes and deploy the new website, which has been in the making for quite a
while already.
Thanks for your patience. We are moving ahead to excellence!
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Manuscript Accepted |
Andrew;
Thank you very much, look forward to reading it.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy!
God bless,
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From: nico css
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to
have copy, signed if possible.
THanks
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted
Hi Folks,
I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the
Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract.
Thanks for all your help.
God bless,
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/18/09 21:14:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> |
May 27, 2009 - July 20, 2009
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dm