Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dm

May 27, 2009 - July 20, 2009



      
      Hi Moe,
      
      Thanks for the response.=C2- I think the challenge will be to get the va
      lve removed and the fuel line capped without spraying gas all over the pla
      ce.=C2- And then re-installing it.=C2- Any suggestions, short of de-fu
      eling the tank..??
      
      =C2-
      
      Randy
      
      =C2-
      
      
      =C2-
      
      Dettmer Architecture
      
      663 Hill Street
      
      San Luis Obispo, CA=C2- 93405
      
      805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865
      
      www.dettmerarchitecture.com
      
      
      =C2-
      
      
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F
=C2- Randy, =C2- This valve (the twist valve that you access through the small door under the wing) looks suspiciously like the Eelco valve that I used to shut off the fuel in my D Altered 57 Chevy. Drag Car equipped with early Hilborn Injectors=C2-in about 1972 .=C2- Meaning that it was military surplus.=C2-=C2-Most likely=C2- the valve needs to be=C2-removed and new "o" rings installed. You are correct that the valve is not listed in the Commander parts book, which is a very good thing.......................... =C2- Regards. =C2- Moe N680RR Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award =C2-
From: Randy Dettmer, AIA
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F =C2- The last time I drained fuel from the center tank sump, the valve did not close completely and fuel continued to drip overboard.=C2- After openin g and closing several times, the dripping stopped.=C2- I have not opened the valve since, for fear of it sticking open again.=C2- Has anybody ex perienced this situation..??=C2- I was unable to identify the valve in my parts manual.=C2- Is it the same in all Commanders..??=C2- I may need a replacement valve.=C2- Anyone have one..??=C2- Thanks. =C2- Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X =C2- =C2- Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA=C2- 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com =C2- date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 2/4/2009 4:35 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Commander Down in FL
Date: May 27, 2009
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to me: <http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html> http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our "family" goes down... /J ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander Down in FL
Date: May 27, 2009
Hi John, The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162. The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the runway. It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona Beach, FL and was with them for over 22 years. As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which were installed in September 1978. No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to me: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our "family" goes down... /J ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Commander Down in FL
Date: May 27, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Jet fuel???? jb ? No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course -----Original Message----- From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 4:53 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL Hi John, ? The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162. The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the runway. ? It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona Beach, FL and was with them for over 22 years. As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which were installed in September 1978. ? No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course. ? Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to me: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html ? Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our "family" goes down... ? /J ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander Down in FL
Date: May 27, 2009
That was my first thought. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL Jet fuel??? jb No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course -----Original Message----- From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 4:53 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL Hi John, The Commander involved was N73U, s/n 3162. The preliminary FAA bulletin just says that it crashed short of the runway. It is currently Registered to Commonwealth Aviation Corp., of Daytona Beach, FL and was with them for over 22 years. As far as I know, it had Rajay turbocharged IO-720-B1B engines, which were installed in September 1978. No doubt a preliminary NTSB report will be on their website in due course. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum <mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Commander-List: Commander Down in FL I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a friend passed this article on to me: <http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html> http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/5/25/476784.html Does anyone have any details? I'm always crushed when a member of our "family" goes down... /J _____ Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America <http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal0000000 1> Takes it Off to learn how. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2009
Subject: N73U
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXG0O-OLH9Q_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXG0O-OLH9Q) **************Dinner Made Easy Newsletter - Simple Meal Ideas for Your Family. Sign Up Now! 3Fhttp:%2F%2Frecipes.dinnermadeeasy.com%2F%3FESRC%3D622) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 2009
Subject: Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Good Evening Randy, Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the accepting container. Ya can't be too careful! Happy Skies, Old Bob Piper PA-20 Downers Grove, Illinois In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes: Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! MaystepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator
Date: May 30, 2009
----- The co-pilot's airspeed indicator in a 1978 Shrike is 20 kts slower than the one on the pilot's side. The mech asked if the pilot and co-pilot airspeed indicators were connected to seperate pitot tubes. I checked the only Mantenance manual which I had which was one for a 500B and I think that both air speed indicators are connected to both pitot tubes. Does anyone know for sure? Kindest regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Date: May 31, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!!? jb Ya can't be too careful! -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F Good Evening Randy, ? Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in?the accepting container. Ya can't be too careful! ? Happy Skies, ? Old Bob Piper PA-20 Downers Grove, Illinois ? In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes: Thanks guys.? Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs.? Randy. A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator
Date: May 31, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Nope, but they are intended to be connected to separate pilot tubes, but after this many years who knows??.? Easy to check, just blow into each tube and see what happens.? If only one moves, you have your answer.? jb Does anyone know for sure? -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 8:23 pm Subject: Commander-List: Co Pilot's Airspeed Indicator ? ----- The co-pilot's airspeed indicator in a 1978 Shrike is 20 kts slower than the one on the pilot's side. The mech asked if the pilot and co-pilot airspeed indicators were connected to seperate pitot tubes. I checked the only Mantenance manual which I had? which was one for a 500B and I think that both air speed indicators are connected to both pitot tubes. ? Does anyone know for sure? ? Kindest regards, ? Bill ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Neat opportunity to see just how much fuel the ship might REALLY hold when you refill. Our 500B took 150 gallons to fill a completely defueled 156 gallon system once, and 150 gallons another time parked in the opposite direction at the same pump. Either we're getting chubby gallons, or maybe we don't really hold 156. I guess some folks like the simplicity of all the tanks draining into one, but I sure sometimes miss having fuel squirreled away in other tanks on a long drive home. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:17 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!! jb Ya can't be too careful! -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F Good Evening Randy, Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the accepting container. Ya can't be too careful! Happy Skies, Old Bob Piper PA-20 Downers Grove, Illinois In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes: Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Sump Drain valve for 680F
Date: Jun 01, 2009
I would take the opportunity of an empty fuel system to clamp a clear hose to the center tank drain, hook the other end of the hose to the side/top of the fuselage and add 10 US gallons at a time. At each 10 USG increment verify the indication on the fuel gauge as well as mark the clear hose. Once all of the above is completed you have a calibrated fuel gauge as well as a calibration hose so when the fuel is down below dippable range on the wing you still can verify the exact quantity of fuel in the center tank using the hose, in a sense dipping the tank. So if you are from the school that does not trust electrical fuel gauges then you can still measure (dip) the center tank. Tom, the swimmer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve at Col-East To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F Neat opportunity to see just how much fuel the ship might REALLY hold when you refill. Our 500B took 150 gallons to fill a completely defueled 156 gallon system once, and 150 gallons another time parked in the opposite direction at the same pump. Either we're getting chubby gallons, or maybe we don't really hold 156. I guess some folks like the simplicity of all the tanks draining into one, but I sure sometimes miss having fuel squirreled away in other tanks on a long drive home. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:17 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F DE-FUEL ONLY OUTSIDE THE HANGAR, NEVER, NEVER INSIDE!!!! jb Ya can't be too careful! -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 7:36 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sump Drain valve for 680F Good Evening Randy, Just be sure to properly ground the fuel tank to the receptacle into which the fuel is being drained. There have been many airplanes and aircraft repair stations burned to the ground during defueling operations. If you use plastic containers, be extra careful and run a bare copper wire from inside the fuel tank on down into the fuel in the accepting container. Ya can't be too careful! Happy Skies, Old Bob Piper PA-20 Downers Grove, Illinois In a message dated 5/24/2009 11:07:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes: Thanks guys. Good reason to go for a flight to burn up most of the fuel from the center tank before draining in to jugs. Randy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Settlement in Gary Tillman's crash
Date: Jun 05, 2009
Hi All, I thought everyone might find this interesting. http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-06-01/story/faa_settles_vilano_c rash_cases_for_375_million /John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 05, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2009
From: <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: Air conditioned and Turbocharged 500B for sale
I have come to the realization that it would be prudent to part with my 500B. If anyone is interested, please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com Myron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 2009
From: <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: Commander 520 parts
I am cleaning out my hanger and have lower cowlings, engine cylinders and other parts for a Commander 520. Please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com if interested. Myron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve W" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 06, 2009
Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly working...!) Nice little piece. But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky mortgage) How are we going to explain all this to Milt? I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a shotgun. What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man! -S ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Andrea Grove' Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 06, 2009
I must be short sighted as I did not get it. Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly working...!) Nice little piece. But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky mortgage) How are we going to explain all this to Milt? I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a shotgun. What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man! -S ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Andrea Grove' Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 06, 2009
Tom, "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time" The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is much more than just giving him a coin. You are up way to early. Tylor Hall On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: > I must be short sighted as I did not get it. > Tom > C-GISS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve W > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... > > Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly > working...!) Nice little piece. > > But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A > foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An > out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably > forced into a risky mortgage) > > How are we going to explain all this to Milt? > > I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be > more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link > to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one > about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers > with a shotgun. > > What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance? > Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man! > > -S > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nico css > To: 'Andrea Grove' > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM > Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 06, 2009
ahhh, I could not read the subtitles, thanks. And yes, 5 hours of sleep is all I could manage last night. T... ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... Tom, "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time" The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is much more than just giving him a coin. You are up way to early. Tylor Hall On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: I must be short sighted as I did not get it. Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly working...!) Nice little piece. But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky mortgage) How are we going to explain all this to Milt? I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a shotgun. What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man! -S ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Andrea Grove' Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: This was a good way to end my week...
Date: Jun 06, 2009
So what makes you think I got up early and not that I was getting in late? T... ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... Tom, "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, and he eats for a life time" The rich man gave the blind man an Idea by changing the sign, which is much more than just giving him a coin. You are up way to early. Tylor Hall On Jun 6, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: I must be short sighted as I did not get it. Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve W To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 3:19 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... Nico, that was a great way to begin my weekend. (of mostly working...!) Nice little piece. But now I'm worried about you. A Cannes Film Festival entry? A foreign film? Subtitled? Bohemian music? Compassion for the poor? An out of work homeless person looking for hand-outs? (and probably forced into a risky mortgage) How are we going to explain all this to Milt? I think I can give you some cover on this one, but you'll have to be more careful next time. I'm sure you actually meant to send a link to the short film beneath this one (Right? Wink, Wink.) The one about the world-weary but vengeful cop, killing the fleeing robbers with a shotgun. What's next Nico? Poetry readings? Abstract art? Interpretive dance? Extending unemployment benefits? Snap out of it, man! -S ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Andrea Grove' Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: This was a good way to end my week... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEGC8Na-Yg href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2009
Subject: Source for Breaker switches?
From: Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com>
Actually this is two questions... 1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently the military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring that goes nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original wiring was like. 2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the overhead switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are marginal at best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round hole style, I'd like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style breakers. Marcos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Source for Breaker switches?
Date: Jun 06, 2009
I probably have what you want Harry 321 267-3141 avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcos Della To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Source for Breaker switches? Actually this is two questions... 1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently the military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring that goes nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original wiring was like. 2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the overhead switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are marginal at best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round hole style, I'd like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style breakers. Marcos ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2009
From: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commander 520 parts
Hi, What other parts you have? Frits Abbing N777VM --- On Sat, 6/6/09, mashley2(at)kc.rr.com wrote: > From: mashley2(at)kc.rr.com <mashley2(at)kc.rr.com> > Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 parts > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 4:32 AM > --> Commander-List message posted > by: > > I am cleaning out my hanger and have lower cowlings, engine > cylinders and other parts for a Commander 520. > > Please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com > if interested. > > Myron > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Source for Breaker switches?
Date: Jun 09, 2009
321 267-3141 Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcos Della To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: Commander-List: Source for Breaker switches? Actually this is two questions... 1. Does anyone know of a source or location I can go to find a wiring diagram for a 1954 Aero-Commander 560? I know its nowhere near whats actually there, but a starting point is always appreciated. Apparently the military owned mine for awhile so there is a lot of "extra" wiring that goes nowhere anymore, but I wanted to find out what the original wiring was like. 2. Anyone have a source or know of vendor/parts for either the overhead switch (toggle style)? I have a few that after 50 years are marginal at best and rather than re-cut the panel for the newer round hole style, I'd like to try to continue using the "wall switch" style breakers. Marcos ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Subject: Cylinder bolts for the GO-480-B ? Where to find?
From: Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com>
Ok, I'm having problems finding the knurled nuts that hold the cylinder flanges down on the GO-480-B engine. The few sources I've talked to say that you need to convert the studs, etc to handle the nuts with the interior knurled edges rather than the externals like the original nuts (how do you explain that one. I had to actually see the nuts to understand the difference). Anyway, I need quite a few of them and can't find a source. Any pointers? Marcos ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Subject: Re: Cylinder bolts for the GO-480-B ? Where to find?
Any one know where I can find sump drain Part#V-104 and a gasket to go with it , part #2630080 . I need two sets to replace leaking out-board Aux fuel drains. Can`t get them to stop leaking . This is for a 680. Thanks for any help. Gil Walker In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:20:23 A.M. Central America Standard T, mdella(at)gmail.com writes: Ok, I'm having problems finding the knurled nuts that hold the cylinder flanges down on the GO-480-B engine. The few sources I've talked to say that you need to convert the studs, etc to handle the nuts with the interior knurled edges rather than the externals like the original nuts (how do you explain that one. I had to actually see the nuts to understand the difference). Anyway, I need quite a few of them and can't find a source. Any pointers? Marcos (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JunestepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N560WM(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2009
Subject: Re: Air conditioned and Turbocharged 500B for sale
Myron contact me at _N560WM(at)aol.com_ (mailto:N560WM(at)aol.com) AB In a message dated 6/5/2009 10:32:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mashley2(at)kc.rr.com writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: I have come to the realization that it would be prudent to part with my 500B. If anyone is interested, please contact me at m.ashley@womack-machine.com Myron ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell =99s full line of laptops. =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code -word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was wh at they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Ho llywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propa ganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectac ularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths result ing. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never he lp you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
No worries, but man, are they getting sneaky. The theme seemed to be: Communism: The Way to Be American! From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps ri ghtly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totall y misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico ________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code -word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was wh at they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Ho llywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propa ganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectac ularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths result ing. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never he lp you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Nico; Not me, I read the words and I listened to the words. I don't see socialism in the song, I see a lot of Americans with a legitimate gripe. I think if you just look at the recent 'stimulus package' you can understand. Ask yourself, who's money is it and who is it going too. And I am doing quite well thank you, but I agree with them in principle. I know lots and lots of young parents that are unemployed and struggling through no fault of their own, many college educated, some not. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Arthur White' Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Nico, thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've had comments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long reply, this is what I have to say... The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched a nerve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that some (maybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China" as the enemy, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a nasty experience a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries and a woman asked me if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly - naturally - said she was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from Jiangxi province in early 2006. I must admit I did not expect the response I got; that "The [Canadian] government is allowing our jobs to be shipped there; now you're bringing them [the Chinese] here to take what few of our jobs remain." My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although not quite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I simmered down I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was uncalled for, yes, but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to make a comment like that. which, in turn, got me thinking about the state of the world and why we are losing our jobs to developing nations. The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an overwhelming desire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We want to eat our cake and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all of us, I hasten to add, but many of us to varying extents. Most things are made in China: China has low cost of living, lots of human rights infringements and blatant abuses, terrible working conditions, poor pay, and, as a result, can produce things cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten times (or more) the price it cost the supplier to buy them and, for us, it is still a bargain. And it is not just products: services too. Call centres are being shipped to India and the Philippines because labour costs are lower. Why? Because in today's world, a company has to be hugely profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits. And we are the shareholders. Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there. Why? Because it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China. And who shops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to our own downfall because we want more for less. But will I (me personally) stop shopping at Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I may not need them, but I want them. Do I really need that movie? No. Do I need that rod, reel, Camping equipment that I bought the other day? No. But I wanted them, so I bought them. To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the Chinese worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There is balance. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a person or enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from somewhere, usually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do we stop it? Governments could introduce protectionist policies and stop the so-called free trade. Which means the developing nations will suffer, and developed nations will continue in isolation until inflation takes them over. So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after ourselves, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it will ever happen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and permanent mind-shift: instead human nature became looking after others to our own expense? As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but think about it. We, very quickly, would become equal. Instead of me looking after myself, I would have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to look after. But instead of just having me looking after me, I would have 6.7 billion (less one) people looking after me. Is that socialism? I suppose it is. And socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree. And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its heaven if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell if one part breaks down. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Arthur White' Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Subject: Re: Very moving...
From: Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Nico - you are a leader.... maintain the stance! heat only gets rid of the dross and allows the pure metal to come out I admire you brother - I drink coffee out of your mugs every monring! bobf On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:59 AM, nico css wrote : > Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps > rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the > site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I tota lly > misread the context. > > Sorry about that. > > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Campbell > *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM > *To:* commander-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Commander-List: Very moving... > > I didn=92t get it. What were they wanting? =93Fairness=94? That=92s be come a > code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was > what they were wanting. (things like =93my dad is making what my granddad did, > and CEOs make millions=94) > > > The problem is, of course, that even if they weren=92t (and given the hig h > Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that w ay. > > > Personally, I=92m tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading > propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed > spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deat hs > resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will > never help you. Even when it does, it=92s a trap. > > > Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FA A. > That=92s socialism. > > > *From:* owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *nico css > *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM > *To:* 'Arthur White' > *Subject:* Commander-List: Very moving... > > > http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ > > > * * > > * * > > ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat , FAQ, > > http://www.matro================== > > http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con > > * * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== =========== com/contribution =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
That last line bothered me. Just a resonse. Socialism is not like a Twin Commander of any variety. And even if it worke d "perfectly", Its evil. Whatever the intentions of the people who take over a functioning society a nd socialize it, the whole thing is based on the idea that people don't pro duce, they receive it form someone else. In other words, they take as given that there is some supply of wealth, a big pot of gold, that is being sat on by the "rich", which can be "shared" by the government , and "that's fai r". The natural state of man is poverty. We only get anything because some col lective "we" produce stuff. That "we" is ultimately the individual, becaus e there isn't anyone else who's going to do it. Everything we get is beca use of the wealth that each individual produces. There is no pot of gold. Instead, people produce and sell a good or service to someone else, who pay s them approximately what its worth. As a software engineer for some years, I can attest that most of the time ( almost always) people get back (on average) pretty much what they put in. Most of the time apparent "unfairness" comes from a failure to understand w hat the value is that one is produce. Case in point: when the German Democr atic Republic fell, the CIA (and the DDR ministry of Industry) valued their economy at about 70% of the value of the German Federal Republic's, on a p er capita basis. They all based this on the ministry of industry figures w hich were in turn based on (pretty much accurate) reports of production at the factory level. By these estimates Trabant was creating more value tha n Volkswagen. It wasn't until the DDR fell that it became clear what the fallacy is: A T rabant is *not* a Volkswagen. In fact, the value of a Trabant when people had the choice whether or not to buy them was less than the scrap value of the metal. Every day Trabant workers would come to work, take perfectly goo d steel and reduce its value by producing a Trabant. They *thought* they w ere producing, but in fact they were detracting from the national wealth. The solution ultimately was to shut down Trabant. VW hired and retrained the workers and now they actually produce something when they go to work. I n a capitalist system, a company (like GM) that produces inferior goods, or the wrong goods, will eventually go bankrupt. The stockholders will pay fo r their folly, and the workers will get rehired doing something more valuab le. In a socialist system, the State pours more and more resources down a rat hole. Socialism removes these signals from the system. Worse than that, it makes the political system rather than individuals choices the decision maker in the allocation of resources. This both makes poor decisions in allocation , but it also corrupts the political system. Beyond that, it makes each individual a burden, rather than an asset. Ever wondered why every socialist state since the French revolution has murdere d a major portion of their population? Simple. Since the State has to sup port everyone, and since in such a system output falls consistently, ther e comes the time when rationing is necessary. Since the State doesn't know how to create wealth (modern socialist states have lived by imitating the i nventions of the capitalists) it must shed burden. So, eventually, it is ne cessary to choose who will live and who won't. Just consider the Obama adm inistrations plans for "reducing costs in the medical system because we are spending too much". The "savings" are to decide which treatments are "co st effective", at least partially on the basis of age. The result is that a 70 year old who could live decades of productive life will be denied medi cal care because he isn't cost effective, even if it kill him. The Canad ian cancer mortality rate is another good example. Of course, a lot of soc ialist governments have been rather more aggressive in "rationing", like th e 20 million Russians starved to death during the 30s, the people sent to t he gas in Poland and Germany, the mass starvation and mass executions in Ch ina, Vietnam, Cambodia, and so many other "paradises". Finally, since the government becomes the fount from which all resources co me, serving and manipulating the government becomes, by necessity, the prim ary activity of everyone. So government the fair arbiter becomes governmen t the aggressive advocate for whomever has grabbed the power this week. El ections become corrupt because its *worth* a billion dollars to control the presidency or congress, etc. Of course, when you put a billion dollars in , you want at least that much out. So the job of government becomes collec ting taxes, essentially at gun point to subsidize those who put the current government in power, with little consideration for a benefit back to thos e people. In short, you have a ghastly mess. And it happens every time. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Nico, thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've had c omments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long reply, t his is what I have to say... The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched a ne rve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that some (m aybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China" as the ene my, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a nasty experienc e a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries and a woman asked m e if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly - naturally - said she was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from Jiangxi province in early 200 6. I must admit I did not expect the response I got; that "The [Canadian] g overnment is allowing our jobs to be shipped there; now you're bringing the m [the Chinese] here to take what few of our jobs remain." My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although not qu ite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I simmered dow n I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was uncalled for, yes, but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to make a comment like that ... which, in turn, got me thinking about the state of the world and why we are losing our jobs to developing nations. The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an overwhelming des ire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We want to eat our cake and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all of us, I hasten to add, b ut many of us to varying extents. Most things are made in China: China has low cost of living, lots of human rights infringements and blatant abuses, terrible working conditions, poor pay, and, as a result, can produce things cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten times (or more) the price it cost the sup plier to buy them and, for us, it is still a bargain. And it is not just pr oducts: services too. Call centres are being shipped to India and the Phili ppines because labour costs are lower. Why? Because in today's world, a com pany has to be hugely profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits. And we are the shareholders. Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there. Why? B ecause it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China. And who sh ops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to our own downfal l because we want more for less. But will I (me personally) stop shopping a t Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I may not need them, but I want th em. Do I really need that movie? No. Do I need that rod, reel, Camping equi pment that I bought the other day? No. But I wanted them, so I bought them. To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the Chine se worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There is bala nce. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a person or enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from somewhere, us ually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do we stop it? Gover nments could introduce protectionist policies and stop the so-called free t rade. Which means the developing nations will suffer, and developed nations will continue in isolation until inflation takes them over. So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after ourselv es, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it will ever hap pen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and permanent mind- shift: instead human nature became looking after others to our own expense? As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but think about it. We, v ery quickly, would become equal. Instead of me looking after myself, I woul d have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to look after. But instead of jus t having me looking after me, I would have 6.7 billion (less one) people lo oking after me. Is that socialism? I suppose it is. And socialism is fine i f only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree. And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its heaven if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell if one pa rt breaks down. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css<mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve at Col-East" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Hey Nico, chart your own course and go with what your own heart and head tell you. You won't always be popular(!) but you'll be a free man. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Arthur White' Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
That's my motto also, Steve. However, when I send stuff out that I haven't read but was moved by the nice tune, then I need to get slapped on the upside of the head. There were no lack of volunteers. I like it when people speak their minds. I don't get offended. If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it and learn. If I am right, well, everyone should just deal with it. I afford friend and foe the same I take for myself. Thanks Nico PS. You should be more liberal, Steve. I can't handle you when you get all conservative on me. :-) _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve at Col-East Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Hey Nico, chart your own course and go with what your own heart and head tell you. You won't always be popular(!) but you'll be a free man. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Nico, don't feel like the lone stranger, I fell for it too. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Man, did I get raked over the coals for this! And, looking back, perhaps rightly so. I didn't particularly follow the words nor did I read it off the site. All the shot-backs had the same theme, so I must accept that I totally misread the context. Sorry about that. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I didn't get it. What were they wanting? "Fairness"? That's become a code-word for socialism. And listening to the words it sounded like that was what they were wanting. (things like "my dad is making what my granddad did, and CEOs make millions") The problem is, of course, that even if they weren't (and given the high Hollywood count I suspect it was) these things can get interpreted that way. Personally, I'm tired of ignorant Hollywood weenies making misleading propaganda trying to romanticize the slide into a system that has failed spectacularly everywhere it has been tried, usually with millions of deaths resulting. The government is not your friend. In the long run it will never help you. Even when it does, it's a trap. Imagine the result of turning the entire country over to be run by the FAA. That's socialism. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scandalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." >From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Campbell To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... That last line bothered me. Just a resonse. Socialism is not like a Twin Commander of any variety. And even if it worked "perfectly", Its evil. Whatever the intentions of the people who take over a functioning society and socialize it, the whole thing is based on the idea that people don't produce, they receive it form someone else. In other words, they take as given that there is some supply of wealth, a big pot of gold, that is being sat on by the "rich", which can be "shared" by the government , and "that's fair". The natural state of man is poverty. We only get anything because some collective "we" produce stuff. That "we" is ultimately the individual, because there isn't anyone else who's going to do it. Everything we get is because of the wealth that each individual produces. There is no pot of gold. Instead, people produce and sell a good or service to someone else, who pays them approximately what its worth. As a software engineer for some years, I can attest that most of the time (almost always) people get back (on average) pretty much what they put in. Most of the time apparent "unfairness" comes from a failure to understand what the value is that one is produce. Case in point: when the German Democratic Republic fell, the CIA (and the DDR ministry of Industry) valued their economy at about 70% of the value of the German Federal Republic's, on a per capita basis. They all based this on the ministry of industry figures which were in turn based on (pretty much accurate) reports of production at the factory level. By these estimates Trabant was creating more value than Volkswagen. It wasn't until the DDR fell that it became clear what the fallacy is: A Trabant is *not* a Volkswagen. In fact, the value of a Trabant when people had the choice whether or not to buy them was less than the scrap value of the metal. Every day Trabant workers would come to work, take perfectly good steel and reduce its value by producing a Trabant. They *thought* they were producing, but in fact they were detracting from the national wealth. The solution ultimately was to shut down Trabant. VW hired and retrained the workers and now they actually produce something when they go to work. In a capitalist system, a company (like GM) that produces inferior goods, or the wrong goods, will eventually go bankrupt. The stockholders will pay for their folly, and the workers will get rehired doing something more valuable. In a socialist system, the State pours more and more resources down a rat hole. Socialism removes these signals from the system. Worse than that, it makes the political system rather than individuals choices the decision maker in the allocation of resources. This both makes poor decisions in allocation, but it also corrupts the political system. Beyond that, it makes each individual a burden, rather than an asset. Ever wondered why every socialist state since the French revolution has murdered a major portion of their population? Simple. Since the State has to support everyone, and since in such a system output falls consistently, there comes the time when rationing is necessary. Since the State doesn't know how to create wealth (modern socialist states have lived by imitating the inventions of the capitalists) it must shed burden. So, eventually, it is necessary to choose who will live and who won't. Just consider the Obama administrations plans for "reducing costs in the medical system because we are spending too much". The "savings" are to decide which treatments are "cost effective", at least partially on the basis of age. The result is that a 70 year old who could live decades of productive life will be denied medical care because he isn't cost effective, even if it kill him. The Canadian cancer mortality rate is another good example. Of course, a lot of socialist governments have been rather more aggressive in "rationing", like the 20 million Russians starved to death during the 30s, the people sent to the gas in Poland and Germany, the mass starvation and mass executions in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, and so many other "paradises". Finally, since the government becomes the fount from which all resources come, serving and manipulating the government becomes, by necessity, the primary activity of everyone. So government the fair arbiter becomes government the aggressive advocate for whomever has grabbed the power this week. Elections become corrupt because its *worth* a billion dollars to control the presidency or congress, etc. Of course, when you put a billion dollars in, you want at least that much out. So the job of government becomes collecting taxes, essentially at gun point to subsidize those who put the current government in power, with little consideration for a benefit back to those people. In short, you have a ghastly mess. And it happens every time. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:42 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Nico, thanks for this post. It is, as you say, very touching. I know you've had comments about socialism, but, when you have time to read this long reply, this is what I have to say... The second line about the guy's job being shipped off to China touched a nerve. Yet while I agree with what is said here my experience is that some (maybe just a few) in the world today look to this and see "China" as the enemy, and indeed, the Chinese too. I say this because I had a nasty experience a while ago - I was in a line-up to pay for groceries and a woman asked me if Rebecca was mine or somebody else's. I proudly - naturally - said she was mine; that Bridget and I adopted her from Jiangxi province in early 2006. I must admit I did not expect the response I got; that "The [Canadian] government is allowing our jobs to be shipped there; now you're bringing them [the Chinese] here to take what few of our jobs remain." My initial reaction was to tell her go forth and multiply - although not quite in those words - but I held back and said nothing. After I simmered down I tried to look at it from her side. What she said was uncalled for, yes, but she must have lost her job to be so bitter to make a comment like that. which, in turn, got me thinking about the state of the world and why we are losing our jobs to developing nations. The conclusion I came to was it was our fault - we have an overwhelming desire for more for less, even when we don't need it. We want to eat our cake and still have it after we have eaten it. Not all of us, I hasten to add, but many of us to varying extents. Most things are made in China: China has low cost of living, lots of human rights infringements and blatant abuses, terrible working conditions, poor pay, and, as a result, can produce things cheaply. We buy them. We pay ten times (or more) the price it cost the supplier to buy them and, for us, it is still a bargain. And it is not just products: services too. Call centres are being shipped to India and the Philippines because labour costs are lower. Why? Because in today's world, a company has to be hugely profitable to survive. Shareholders want big profits. And we are the shareholders. Wal-Mart is a case in point. It is hugely successful. We shop there. Why? Because it is cheap. Because most of its products are from China. And who shops there? We do. We are the people who are contributing to our own downfall because we want more for less. But will I (me personally) stop shopping at Wal Mart? No. I want the things I buy. I may not need them, but I want them. Do I really need that movie? No. Do I need that rod, reel, Camping equipment that I bought the other day? No. But I wanted them, so I bought them. To get philosophical, the world is in equilibrium, something that the Chinese worked out long ago with their philosophy of Yin and Yang. There is balance. When we make money, we take it from somewhere else: be it a person or enterprise. It is the same with jobs. When we gain a job from somewhere, usually it is because it has been lost elsewhere. So how do we stop it? Governments could introduce protectionist policies and stop the so-called free trade. Which means the developing nations will suffer, and developed nations will continue in isolation until inflation takes them over. So what's the solution? I don't know. Human nature is to look after ourselves, not others. What if we turned it on its head? Not that it will ever happen, but what if everybody in this world had an instant and permanent mind-shift: instead human nature became looking after others to our own expense? As I said, not that it is likely to ever happen, but think about it. We, very quickly, would become equal. Instead of me looking after myself, I would have 6.7 billion people (less one - me) to look after. But instead of just having me looking after me, I would have 6.7 billion (less one) people looking after me. Is that socialism? I suppose it is. And socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree. And now for the bombshell - socialism is like a Twin Commander - its heaven if every part of the aircraft works in perfect harmony, but hell if one part breaks down. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Arthur White' Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Commander-List: Very moving... http://www.bornagainamerican.org/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c ; - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,http://www.matro================== =http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Bruce & Andrew I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be monitored lest Greed takes control. In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increase our greed. I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts. I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many times I have trouble telling them apart. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scandalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Don- The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship between capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you can get a copy- do so. I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the current course of action. I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and talking-head-infighting. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce & Andrew I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be monitored lest Greed takes control. In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increase our greed. I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts. I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many times I have trouble telling them apart. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scandalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." >From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 12, 2009
I am going to through my 2 cents in. http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/firearms44 Go to the second video. It explains a lot. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:45 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Don- The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship between capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you can get a copy- do so. I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the current course of action. I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and talking-head-infighting. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce & Andrew I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be monitored lest Greed takes control. In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increase our greed. I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts. I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many times I have trouble telling them apart. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scandalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." >From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Subject: Very moving...
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Amen From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:53 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... I am going to through my 2 cents in. http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/firearms44 Go to the second video. It explains a lot. Jim ________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:45 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Don- The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship bet ween capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you ca n get a copy- do so... I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take si des- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from a n economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around scre aming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in th e direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the cur rent course of action. I like well rounded... Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and ta lking-head-infighting... Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce & Andrew I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be mon itored lest Greed takes control. In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Fr eedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increa se our greed. I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all t his, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings , however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really ge t screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts. I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it i s written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact ma ny times I have trouble telling them apart. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net<mailto:andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of the se good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scan dalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmo ny - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judge ment on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if o nly everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If every body in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the sa me degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democ racy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where sociali sm has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of " heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people star ving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they f illed the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The s econd room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were content ed and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and co ntent. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." >From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - bu t I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthro pology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her sit uation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution - The Commander-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Fly-In
Date: Jun 12, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Hi Kids, The registration packets for the Fly-In will be mailed to members this weekend.? If you don't receive one and would like one, let us know and we'll be glad to mail it to you.? As mentioned previously we will be in Carson City Nevada this year and will combine our Fly-in with the Reno Air Races.? Because of this it is important that you book early as rooms and cars will go fast and if you wait until the last minute there may not be anything available.? Tentative schedule for the event is as follows: Wednesday??????????????? Arrival Day and Welcome Dinner Thursday??????????????????? Seminars and Awards Banquet Fri, Sat & Sun???????????? Attend Reno Air Races We have booked a box seat on the flght line at the races.? Cost will be $325 per person for the entire race event and in addition to the box seat this includes daily parking, daily pit passes and allows us to bring in a couple of coolers each day.? The box seat holds up to 15 people so we will need to have you reserve early so if needed we can obtain another box seat.? You would also have the option of buying general admission or reserved bleacher seating.? Looking forward to seeing you all at this event.? Jim & Sue ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list <http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory> with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 12, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE... -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 12, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Oh, and, 14 CFR 91.11: "No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated." -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brock Lorber Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 4:08 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! ...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE... -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Am I seeing a similarity to the SS. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Oh, and, 14 CFR 91.11: "No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated." -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brock Lorber Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 4:08 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! ...o'er the laaaand of the freeEEEE... -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of nico css Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 11:08 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2009
It means elections have consequences. The socialist bastards ran against George Ws "excesses in limiting our rights in the name of security" now we have Napolitano's gestapo doing to law abiding citizens what they wouldn't tolerate being done to a crackhead in downtown LA. Funny you don't see any of this in the NYT or on CNN. After all military veterans are potential terrorists and no one (except politiicians) should be wealthy enough to own a plane. You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live with (and pay for him) -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247934#247934 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Good Morning Milt, I totally agree with your sentiments. The problem is, how do we get this thing back to being a Republic? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/13/2009 8:36:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com writes: You sorry shits that voted for the bastard got him now you get to live with (and pay for him) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JunestepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2009
Short of armed insurrection we don't. We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the government than pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a greater percentage of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas then rural. Their wants and needs being totally divergent. We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a free democracy. Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic of the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named mohammed. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
From: Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
there is a glimmer of hope. check out the recent elections in Europe - especially Netherlands.... The winner is a guy so "anti-muslim" that England has forbidden him to enter the country.... Likewise, elections in England have tilted right/ Switzerland... there is a limit. Question is -- how much damage can Zero do which will be hard to or impossible to reverse. bobf On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:09 AM, N395V wrote: > > > > Short of armed insurrection we don't. > > We have now crossed a threshold where more people receive from the > government than pay in to it. We also have crossed the threshold where a > greater percentage of the voting population live in major metropolitan areas > then rural. Their wants and needs being totally divergent. > > We are approaching 300 years which historically seems to be the life of a > free democracy. > > Soon we will resemble Canada, then England and finally the Islamic Republic > of the Netherlands where something like 30% of newborn males are named > mohammed. > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247936#247936 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 13, 2009
NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM To: Boyd C. Braem Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 13, 2009
Robert; Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that magazine, tried to pull the article up online, but failed. Will keep my eye out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it. Thanks, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Don- The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship between capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week. If you can get a copy- do so. I've always enjoyed the Economist because they really don't care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from an economic standpoint. This article pokes fun at those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the current course of action. I like well rounded. Astoundingly rare in this age of sound-bites and talking-head-infighting. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce & Andrew I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be monitored lest Greed takes control. In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counters. In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still protecting our Freedoms. Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increase our greed. I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence? Once again the question, how do we balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights. The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, things seem to really get screwed up. I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts. I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many times I have trouble telling them apart. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of these good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Scandalous! I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harmony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society. I'm not passing judgement on whether it is evil or good. What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same degree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants socialism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the same. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to work: where socialism has worked for those in the system is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example, monasteries and kibbutzim. I once read an inspirational story about a man who was taken on a tour of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw people starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism. As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food. The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spoons, but the spoons were so long that once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "heaven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other." From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to lean more to the side of altruism. I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. God bless, Andrew http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D GIROD" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 13, 2009
Steve; We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter. Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later. One thing that most don't remember as it did not make much news was Clinton signing a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all the pardons). Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes the Constitution. Rumor had it Slick Willy was trying to be appointed president of the UN. But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM To: Boyd C. Braem Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2009
> having inheriting these things When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at gunpoint. Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on the news for a month followed by impeachment proceedings. Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin. Thing is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over mostly conservatives. This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the battlefield and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and then treats US citizens like crap. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 13, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/21/nation/na-shootdown21 -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of N395V Sent: Sat 6/13/2009 11:38 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fuming Mad! > having inheriting these things When George W was in office they didn't mug law abiding pilots at gunpoint. Had that happened during the Bush Admin it is all we would have seen on the news for a month followed by impeachment proceedings. Customs and Border patrol have existed since long before the Bush admin. Thing is obama is slug and he is letting napolitano run roughshod over mostly conservatives. This sorry piece of crap is reading miranda rights to terrorists on the battlefield and treating them like royalty. He bows to Saudi royalty and then treats US citizens like crap. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247967#247967 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Very moving...
Date: Jun 13, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI DON......... Give me a call at 360-903-6901.=C2- Thanks!!=C2- Jim Metzger Don -----Original Message----- From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:01 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... Robert; =C2- Although an 'economist' by college degree major, I do not take that magazi ne, tried to pull the article up online, but failed.=C2- Will keep my ey e out in some of the stores, if I see it I will get it. =C2- Thanks, =C2- Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:44 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Very moving... Don- =C2- The Economist published a fantastic article explaining the relationship be tween capitalism, greed and government regulation this past week.=C2- If you can get a copy- do so =C2- I=99ve always enjoyed the Economist because they really don=99 t care to take sides- they simply address things from the perspective of what is good from an economic standpoint.=C2- This article pokes fun at those running around screaming about socialism, but then turns the corner to wag a firm finger in the direction of Washington to warn them of the potential pitfalls in the current course of action. =C2- I like well rounded=C2- Astoundingly rare in this age of sound- bites and talking-head-infighting =C2- Robert S. Randazzo N414C =C2- From: owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L D GIROD Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... =C2- Bruce & Andrew =C2- I am a Capitalist through and through, although I do believe it must be mo nitored lest Greed takes control. =C2- In our current situation here in the USA, we have forced many people out of work and to take substantial pay cuts for the greed of the bean counte rs.=C2- In my opinion there is a "thin red line" between Capitalism and Greed, and we walk a fine line to maintain this balance while still prote cting our Freedoms.=C2- Corruption enters the picture and we loose our freedoms and increase our greed. =C2- I have never understood how if I offer a cop a hundred dollars its a bribe but if I give a thousand dollars=C2-to a PAC it is a donation, am I not really trying to buy influence?=C2- Once again the question, how do we balance all this, capitalism, freedom, & our constitutional rights.=C2- The pendulum swings, however, when the government enters the picture, thi ngs seem to really get screwed up.=C2- I don't know the answers, but I do have some thoughts.=C2- =C2- I tend to be a Libertarian at heart and believe in our Constitution as it is written, but neither of the major parties want that to happen, in fact many times I have trouble telling them apart. =C2- Don ---- - Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Very moving... =C2- Bruce, the last line was a bit of humour aimed at getting a rise out of th ese good Twin Commander people - compare a Twin Commander to Socialism? Sc andalous! =C2- I do stand by what I said, though: socialism can only work in perfect harm ony - but it has to be perfect harmony in the society.=C2-I'm not passin g judgement on whether it is evil or good.=C2-What I said was "socialism is fine if only everybody is equal and everybody wants it to the same deg ree." If everybody in the socialist unit is equal and everybody wants soci alism to the same degree then everybody's judgement of it would be the sam e. That is democracy. It is not a case of socialism never being able to wo rk: where socialism has worked=C2-for those in the system=C2-is where it is totally voluntary and where they share the same belief, for example , monasteries and kibbutzim. =C2- I once read an inspirational=C2-story about a man who was taken on a tou r of "heaven" and "hell". He was taken to "hell" first - there he saw peop le starving, screaming, fighting each other, even resorting to cannibalism . As if to torture them further in the middle of the room, but surrounded by fire, was a huge pot of delicious food.=C2-The only way people could get at the food was with long handled spo ons, but the spoons were so long that=C2-once they filled the spoon from the pot, they couldn't get it into their mouths. The second room was "hea ven" and it was almost the same: same pot of food, same surrounding fire, same long handled spoons, but all the people were contented and well-fed. The man asked his guide why this group was=C2-well-fed and content. His guide replied, "Here they have learned to feed each other."=C2-=C2- =C2- >From a personal perspective I am no socialist - capitalist to the hilt - but I do tend to=C2-lean more to the side of=C2-altruism.=C2-I am interested in anthropology and what makes people think the way they do - like the woman in the grocery line-up and the altruistic side of me feels bad for her and her situation, whatever it may be. =C2- God bless, Andrew =C2- =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= t he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 13, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Anem!!? jb Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? -----Original Message----- From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Steve; ? We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.? Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.? ? One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was trying to be appointed president of the UN.? ? But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"? ? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, ? What a mess. ? Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. ? A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. ? Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. ? See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. ? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, ? I am fuming mad. ? The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. ? Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. ? Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. ? I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. ? Nico ? ? From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had t heir weapons out," Perry said. More... ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 13, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Opps,I meant, AMEN!! ?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? -----Original Message----- From: L D GIROD <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sat, Jun 13, 2009 11:10 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Steve; ? We get lied to a lot and also the politicians have a much longer time frame than we do, so they sneak thing through, consider the Panama Canal with Jimmy Carter.? Past the law but was not effective until almost twenty years later.? ? One thing that most don't remember?as it?did not make much news was Clinton signing a 'treaty with the UN' hours before leaving office (same time frame as all the pardons).?Thank goodness Geo W. nullified it within a few hours of being sworn in, a treaty supersedes?the Constitution.? Rumor had it Slick Willy was trying to be appointed president of the UN.? ? But makes one ask, "Where do we get these self serving idiots"? ? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, ? What a mess. ? Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This?department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. ? A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. ? Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. ? See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. ? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, ? I am fuming mad. ? The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. ? Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. ? Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present;?on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. ? I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. ? Nico ? ? From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had t heir weapons out," Perry said. More... ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2009
Subject: Fuel drains for 680
I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3 2630080. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info. Gil Walker 615-373-5703 **************Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents available at ditech.com 1%2F) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 14, 2009
Hi Steve. I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable. Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you can sue. The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace. Nico The incident: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528 and Russ Niles' blog: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht ml _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list <http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory> with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Sept flyin and Convention now on website
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Folks, The Flyin and convention notice and subscription form is on the website www.aerocommander.com Please check it out and let me know if you spot anything that needs to be fixed or said differently. Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "s" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Nico, I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one of us. I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions..... Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked. We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now. I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Hi Steve. I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable. Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you can sue. The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace. Nico The incident: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528 and Russ Niles' blog: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1 .html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM To: Boyd C. Braem Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Fuel drains for 680
Date: Jun 15, 2009
reccomendation=2C call gary kromer @ commander aero and talk about replacin g commander drain with rebuildable cessna 182 drains. i did this last year and they work well. gmc From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com Date: Sun=2C 14 Jun 2009 15:29:23 -0400 Subject: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680 I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3 26300 80. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info. G il Walker 615-373-5703 Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents available at ditec h.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fuming Mad!
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Thank you for the update, Steve. I'll agree to disagree on some aspects of your position. It's a hill we don't have to die on. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:46 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Nico, I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one of us. I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions..... Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked. We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now. I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Hi Steve. I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable. Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you can sue. The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace. Nico The incident: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528 and Russ Niles' blog: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht ml _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list <http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory> with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: What was he thinking...
Date: Jun 15, 2009
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426 How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would have cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and being too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a downdraft. Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough. Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/15/09
Mason , Thanks for the info,I`ll give him a call. Again Thanks Gil In a message dated 6/16/2009 12:57:13 A.M. Central America Standard , commander-list(at)matronics.com writes: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-06-15&Archive=Commander Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2009-06-15&Archive=Commander =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/15/09: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Sept flyin and Convention now on website (nico css) 2. 04:55 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (s) 3. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel drains for 680 (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 4. 09:56 AM - Re: Fuming Mad! (nico css) 5. 12:41 PM - What was he thinking... (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Commander-List: Sept flyin and Convention now on website Folks, The Flyin and convention notice and subscription form is on the website www.aerocommander.com Please check it out and let me know if you spot anything that needs to be fixed or said differently. Thanks Nico ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: "s" <steve2(at)sover.net> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Nico, I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one of us. I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions..... Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked. We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now. I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Hi Steve. I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable. Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you can sue. The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace. Nico The incident: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528 and Russ Niles' blog: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1 .html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview and podcast with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680 reccomendation=2C call gary kromer @ commander aero and talk about replacin g commander drain with rebuildable cessna 182 drains. i did this last year and they work well. gmc From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com Subject: Commander-List: Fuel drains for 680 I am looking for two sets of fuel drains Part #V104 and Gasket part 3 26300 80. These drains are for the out board fuel tanks . Thanks for any info. G il Walker 615-373-5703 Choose the home loan that saves you the most $$$. Agents available at ditec h.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Thank you for the update, Steve. I'll agree to disagree on some aspects of your position. It's a hill we don't have to die on. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:46 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Nico, I had missed the emphasis of your point and we're in agreement on it. No citizen should be subject to unreasonable search, seizure or detention. Law abiding citizens should not be facing drawn weapons. It's appalling. I think we would both agree that this was an abuse of power on the part of duly authorized officers. We should keep in mind this sort of abuse has happened frequently over the years, and continues to happen. The much hated civil libertarian groups have worked to keep these in check. What is maybe different is that this time a different group of person was affected, one of us. I see the point you were trying to make was that there have always been individuals with authorized powers, it is the use of those powers. Where we may part ways is that I DO link these agencies and their very creation to abusive powers by the nature of their existence. While I hear the words liberty and freedom tossed around a lot, we've exchanged many of our liberties, freedoms and rights, for a sense of safety. Shaking down Grandma at airports, a seven foot high chain link fence that only goes around the front of the airport..... It makes me sick to see that fence keeping the public away, instead of the picnic bench we used to have. Domestic wire-tapping, surveillance, banking transactions..... Nico, my last message was a good natured poke in the side. It just seems silly on the part of some of the right to be pointing fingers at powerful government agencies a couple months into a new administration, when nothing was said about those tentacles stretching into our lives at the time, and those more interested in civil liberties were mocked. We don't have a local policeman. Up until last year we had a fella who filled in as a part-time constable. I think he might be full-time now. I read the AvWeb article. I'll check out Russ Nile's blog. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Hi Steve. I am not complaining about the powers, I am complaining about the abuse of those powers. Linking this abuse to the agencies, per se, just doesn't make sense. The media ignoring the incident is the needle in the side and the acceleration of the anger. Your local policeman has similar powers based upon reasonable belief of a crime, which is a totally subjective call making it nearly impossible to challenge. You can be locked up for several hours without any cause whatsoever and you have no recourse at all. David Perry and his passengers were detained for only about one hour, well within the limit of ad hoc detention. I don't gripe about that. If you read my opinion on the matter, you will see that I avoided the part where these officers were within their rights; rights they did not acquire by any agency that was created in '03 or any recent decade before that. Their abuse was with the manner in which they executed their duties. Having firearms drawn on civilians without cause is abuse of the highest order. This sets a decorum of violence first, which is something that is totally foreign to the general aviation community and in this country as a whole for that matter. Not even police officers approaching suspicious vehicles during traffic stops draw their guns. They are merely prepared to act quickly, which is reasonable. Getting back to your local policeman. If he would arrest you at gunpoint without any cause you would have a complaint of abuse, violating your civil rights and unnecessarily endangering your life, which would be a legitimate complaint and, in my (not always) humble opinion, something for which you can sue. The mere fact that they were released after only an hour's interrogation, is clear proof that there was no cause and no prior information about the pilot, the passengers or the plane or they would have been detained or at least questioned for a longer period of time. Russ Niles' pathetic paint-job of the incident in AvWeb is a disgrace. Nico The incident: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528 and Russ Niles' blog: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/GA_A_Soft_Target_For_Security_200535-1.ht ml _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! NIco, What a mess. Where on earth were the conservatives when these agencies were being formed? This department was created back in '03 when all I ever heard out of conservatives was whining about keeping us safe. That's all that was spoken about. Creating these giant agencies, bypassing courts, bypassing surveillance laws on citizens. All of this was done in the name of keeping us safe and being 'tough' on terrorists. Attempts to limit these powers and support civil liberties were seen as 'soft'. A couple months into the new guy's administration having inheriting these things, and with the radicalization of the political climate, we're in a box. If the new guy moves to defang border patrol and Homeland Security he'll be slammed for making us more vulnerable. Not trying to be funny here, I just really wonder why conservatives didn't play their classic role of limiting these powers, and contributed instead to their massive buildup. See you didn't need to worry, with you not posting about art films I can go back to normal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fuming Mad! Folks, I am fuming mad. The Long Beach action against private citizens is an atrocity. One can understand if there were concerns for suspicious or dangerous persons on that flight, but from all accounts this was a flight by all standards similar to an outing with the family in one's automobile in the countryside. Some brainless twit in Long Beach with a jackboot fetish decided to show his or her prowess that day and ordered a full-scale scare initiative. I was taught from childhood that you don't point a firearm at anybody unless you are prepared to use it. There is no justification for assuming otherwise with law enforcement. Shame on Kelly Ivahnenko for defending this outrageous behavior of the rogue priests of covert fascism. What would you have done, Kelly, if one of the drawn weapons discharged accidentally? Or, suppose one of the passengers lowered his hand to open the door or prevent from stumbling trying to get out of the plane under extreme duress and one of the officers perceived that as reaching for a weapon? I can already hear your sheepish and inadequate response by extrapolating it from your answer here. What a shameful thing to defend! Those who do not advocate for your dismissal and those at Long Beach, for incompetence, is just as guilty. Stressing that this experience is not what most pilots should expect when they are checked by the CBP is a shameful and ignorant statement, insulting everybody's intelligence including yours. Tell us, then, Kelly, what should pilots expect when they are checked by the CBP? What percentage could expect drawn weapons pointed at their parents or children that happen to be with them that day? And don't say that it will happen only when there is justified belief of a suspicious passenger or pilot involved because you already defended an action where such prior knowledge was not present; on the contrary, all indications were that there were no suspicious persons on board that flight. If your agency embarked on a course to totally destroy general aviation, you have certainly shown the methods by which you want to accomplish that goal. I would sue their friggin' pants off, Perry, not to inhibit legitimate pursuit of security but to eradicate this and exactly this kind of tyranny. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rocketman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Back in the USSR! So tell me what does this mean for us peons? As seen in AVweb A total of 454 airports will be subject to the TSA's latest Security Directive (SD-8G) restricting the movements of transient pilots, EAA said <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_list.asp> this week. The list includes airports in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam as well as in the U.S. Click here <http://eaa.org/news/2009/2009-06-09_tsa_airportlist.pdf> for the full list (PDF). The directive took effect June 1 and requires pilots to "remain close to their aircraft," leaving it only for trips to and from the FBO or airport exit, according <http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090528tsa.html> to AOPA, although some airports may also offer escorts to transient pilots. Since individual airports may develop a variety of programs that would satisfy the TSA directive, pilots need to call ahead to their destinations and ask the airport operator or an FBO on the field for information about that airport's security requirements, EAA says. The TSA is expected to provide future guidance regarding self-fueling and emergencies. The full text of the security directive has not been made public. The new listing of airports is not the same as a list <http://www.avweb.com/pdf/general_aviation_affected_airports_2009-01.pdf> of airports (PDF) released by the TSA in January for the Large Aircraft Security Program. CUSTOMS <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> AND BORDER PROTECTION JUSTIFIES RAMP CHECK A spokeswoman for the Washington headquarters of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) says the drawing of weapons in the ramp inspection of an aircraft in Long Beach, Calif., last month was justified but not "normal." Kelly Ivahnenko also told AVweb that general aviation pilots can expect more ramp checks by CBP agents thanks to the newly-instituted Electronic Advance Passenger Information System (eAPIS). She stressed it's unlikely many of the checks will have the level of intensity employed May 22 with Long Beach, Calif., pilot David Perry and his three passengers. Ivahnenko said in an interview on Tuesday that there was a "heightened alert" involved in the Long Beach operation but she also said she could not discuss the circumstances that led to a more aggressive posture than normal by the CBP and local police. She also said that while eAPIS had nothing to do with the Long Beach inspection, information provided through eAPIS could result in more frequent GA inspections. The system, which involves the online filing of flight and passenger information for transborder flights, became mandatory on May 18. In an interview <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/PilotProtestsCustomsCheck_200519-1.htm l> and podcast <http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20090608&kw=RelatedStory> with AVweb, Perry said he and his passengers were put in unnecessary peril by gun-wielding enforcement officials. Ivahnenko stressed Perry's experience is not what most pilots should expect if they're checked by the CBP. "This I would not classify as common or routine," she said. She said the Long Beach action was justified, even though the search turned up nothing illegal. "While the involvement of more than one law enforcement agency and the heightened alert of the situation were slightly unusual, it is within (CBP's) authority to inspect inbound and outbound travelers, vehicles, planes, cargo, etc.," she told AVweb. She also said that only the Long Beach police officers assisting the operation actually drew weapons and CBP agents kept theirs holstered, something Perry vehemently disputes. "Every one of them had their weapons out," Perry said. More... <http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1392-full.html#200528> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Subject: Commander-List: What was he thinking... http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65426 How would he have landed on that road? Surely hitting that SUV was a life saver from what I can see. It provided him with a sudden stop with lots of people around to pull them from the wreck. Had he hit the rocks on the side trying to land on that narrow road, which appears inevitable, he would have cart-wheeled and who knows what that outcome would have been. There is a deep valley to the left in which he could have descended giving him many more options. Or, he wasn't trying to land at all but buzz the SUV and being too close to the hill he could have encountered sudden turbulence or a downdraft. Since they all survived, we'll know soon enough. Nico **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: IO 720 fuel pump and pressure
Cross posted to fish for IO 720 experience. Well, my new bird, which apparently the FAA designates as a SW50,is safely snugged into a heated community hangar at UGN, and I'm eagerly looking forward to transition traning. However, on the delivery flight,teh rightengine (IO 720) showed a fuel pressure of 16 psi when running on the engine driven fuel pump which was recently replaced (for the second time). After the replacement, the fuel pressure tested fine, but on the short flight to UGN it showed 16 vs a 22 to 25 psi targetrange. The boost pump works in the 22-25 range. The pump is adjustable, so the pressure can be raised. However, is this likely the result of a break-in drift in fuel pressure or should I be concerned that the pump will soon fail? I don't recall a fuel pressure drift after the install of a new fuel pump on my IO 360, and I'm assuming this is of a similar design. Thoughts? Phil SW50 M20E Turbo UGN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: IO 720 fuel pump and pressure
Date: Jun 17, 2009
would call lycoming for good info. gmc (io-720 also) > Date: Tue=2C 16 Jun 2009 14:12:56 -0700 > From: philipguziec(at)yahoo.com > Subject: Commander-List: IO 720 fuel pump and pressure > To: beech-owners(at)beechcraft.org=3B mooney(at)aviating.com=3B commander-list@ matronics.com=3B lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com > om> > > > Cross posted to fish for IO 720 experience. > > Well=2C my new bird=2C which apparently the FAA designates as a SW50=2C i s safely snugged into a heated community hangar at UGN=2C and I'm eagerly l ooking forward to transition traning. However=2C on the delivery flight=2C teh right engine (IO 720) showed a fuel pressure of 16 psi when running on the engine driven fuel pump which was recently replaced (for the second ti me). After the replacement=2C the fuel pressure tested fine=2C but on the short flight to UGN it showed 16 vs a 22 to 25 psi target range. The boost pump works in the 22-25 range. > > The pump is adjustable=2C so the pressure can be raised. However=2C is t his likely the result of a break-in drift in fuel pressure or should I be c oncerned that the pump will soon fail? I don't recall a fuel pressure drif t after the install of a new fuel pump on my IO 360=2C and I'm assuming thi s is of a similar design. > > Thoughts? > > Phil > SW50 > M20E Turbo > UGN > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 17, 2009
http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 17, 2009
That was really good. Thanks Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:35 AM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Anybody has any experience with this? Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found) providing only secondary contributing phenomena. The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine. It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics. Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder attachment structure can be incorporated. This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see. His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures. His observations: "I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310, A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188, L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of them. Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite materials. I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it did, something a Boeing product will not do. The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash site. The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA. As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the presence of instrumentation problems. I replied with this: "I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the media's focus away from the real problem. It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc. " His follow-up: One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has first-hand experience in the dismantling process. I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered. Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts., catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open. The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off. Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined aluminum." -----------------(end of narrative)--------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "s" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'White, Art & Carla' Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Runway incursion
Date: Jun 19, 2009
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/faarunwaysafety/BOS021508V3AOPA.swf Click Play... (Courtesy of eAOPA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Hi Steve, I am sure he loves what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't be there. Personally, I respect wild animals for what they are and people are, generally, food to them. One day ... Thanks, Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of s Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:59 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: I got better things to do Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Subject: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner Herzog). Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and does not stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his eyes he is that day's meal. But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk, and you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best. Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that this time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants." I'm going for my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical yet) on a Pietenpol. Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork toss up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better every time, burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct... In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid any attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and temperature on my run up. I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying, painting the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by the fall... It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a step closer to a 560! thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of you in Reno! Peter On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote: > Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought > this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple > years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I > thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and > maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nico css > To: 'White, Art & Carla' > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM > Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do > > http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Way to go, Peter! Every pilot, without exception, went through 6.5 hrs on his/her logbook. And look what they have become! Some even flew to the moon and back. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner Herzog). Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and does not stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his eyes he is that day's meal. But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk, and you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best. Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that this time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants." I'm going for my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical yet) on a Pietenpol. Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork toss up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better every time, burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct... In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid any attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and temperature on my run up. I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying, painting the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by the fall... It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a step closer to a 560! thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of you in Reno! Peter On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote: Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve @ CEI" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: I got better things to do
Date: Jun 20, 2009
A Pietenpol! Isn't that neat. I've never tried it, but the front pit is reputed to be one of the few that's tougher to get into than a Cub's... Good for you! You're flying! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Bichier To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do Grizzly Man, of course, for those of us who have seen it (Werner Herzog). Yes, interesting how the guy is completely aware of the danger and does not stop him, I guess the second those lions feel fear in his eyes he is that day's meal. But wouldn't you all pilots hear the same? you also take a known risk, and you would do it again if you die while doing what you love best. Speaking of, I took the advice of several of you guys (I can say that this time) and I'm learning how to fly by the "seats of the pants." I'm going for my LSA ticket (don't want to hassle with 3rd medical yet) on a Pietenpol. Open cockpit! owaooo, what a difference, I literally feel like a cork toss up in the air! although very green (6.5 hrs) I'm doing it better every time, burning 5 gls/hr on 87 oct... In that time I've learned how to hand prop, and so far have not paid any attention to the instruments except when I check oil pressure and temperature on my run up. I'm also working on a Schweisser 2-33 (stripping the wings, laying, painting the fabric on the fuselage) which hopefully will be ready by the fall... It seems I'll be around the right tools to learn how to fly and get a step closer to a 560! thanks for you all, enjoy the list very much and hope to see lots of you in Reno! Peter On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:58 AM, s wrote: Nico, that was really neat. It's funny, a minute or so in I thought this is going to be one of these people we hear about in a couple years who gets eaten, like the grizzly guy. But then further in I thought, well maybe so what. What he's got is really special and maybe worth it. And then a minute or so later he says the same thing. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'White, Art & Carla' Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Commander-List: I got better things to do http://www.wysongpethealth.net/kevin.shtml href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Are you there?
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Harry, your Email is bouncing, I need to talk to you. Tom C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Electric flight.
Date: Jun 24, 2009
The sound may be gone for the first part. Could be just me, though. This would open up reverse thrust without fear of overheating, too, if the useful load is worht something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mwqXpAcxk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruce Campbell <brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com>
Subject: Electric flight.
Date: Jun 24, 2009
"il primo pilote electrico!" Bravo! Would also help a lot with weight and balance. And STO/VL vectored thrust would become a lot more practical because the (small, light) electric motor s could be put in the thrust pods, and all that would be required to tran smit power would be a cable (probably two). But I suspect we have a couple of generations of battery technology to go b efore it is more than a technical tour de force. There is a long way betwe en "possible" and "practical". Still, it's a milestone. From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Commander-List: Electric flight. The sound may be gone for the first part. Could be just me, though. This would open up reverse thrust without fear of overheating, too, if the useful load is worht something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mwqXpAcxk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brady" <westwindaero(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: Re: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Date: Jun 30, 2009
While watching TV coverage of the Airbus that crashed departing LGA a salvage crew recovered the vert.fin/rudder from the water looking like new. It obviously separated from the aircraft long before final impact....whoa I said that's not right. I checked with one of our sons who works maint. at United ORD who had along with most of his coworkers been complaining about the so called 'employee owned' company's decision to buy a bunch of Airbuses which they considered accidents made out of shit waiting for a place to happen. I told him what I had seen & he said he wasn't supprised as they had been fighting with management & the FAA that the attach points were mickey-mouse & proper inspections were a major project so the inspection process was changed to merely a visual look at the external skins. When the SA to EUR flight was reported down in turbulent conditions I said to some fellow pilots "I wonder if they'll find a pristine fin/rudder floating in the Atlantic?". Today an Airbus went down off the coast of Africa attempting a landing in turbulent conditions. In the LGA crash the NTSB said it was caused by the aircrew overreacting to wake turbulence by applying full rudder deflection. We had always been told that in a stall condition or low airspeed encounters with turbulence all aircraft were designed so that full deflection of any control surface could not result in damage to the control or its attach points.....they have now begun revising the training procedures. I guess that's cheaper than building a safe airplane. Dan the desert duck 77B ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com ; rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:31 PM Subject: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, Anybody has any experience with this? Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found) providing only secondary contributing phenomena. The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine. It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics. Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder attachment structure can be incorporated. This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see. His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures. His observations: "I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310, A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188, L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of them. Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite materials. I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it did, something a Boeing product will not do. The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash site. The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA. As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the presence of instrumentation problems. I replied with this: "I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the media's focus away from the real problem. It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc. " His follow-up: One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has first-hand experience in the dismantling process. I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered. Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts., catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open. The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off. Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined aluminum." -----------------(end of narrative)--------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brady" <westwindaero(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,,
Date: Jun 30, 2009
Not sure if this went through or not, as I didn't see it in my club mail.\ Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Brady Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:31 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, While watching TV coverage of the Airbus that crashed departing LGA a salvage crew recovered the vert.fin/rudder from the water looking like new. It obviously separated from the aircraft long before final impact....whoa I said that's not right. I checked with one of our sons who works maint. at United ORD who had along with most of his coworkers been complaining about the so called 'employee owned' company's decision to buy a bunch of Airbuses which they considered accidents made out of shit waiting for a place to happen. I told him what I had seen & he said he wasn't supprised as they had been fighting with management & the FAA that the attach points were mickey-mouse & proper inspections were a major project so the inspection process was changed to merely a visual look at the external skins. When the SA to EUR flight was reported down in turbulent conditions I said to some fellow pilots "I wonder if they'll find a pristine fin/rudder floating in the Atlantic?". Today an Airbus went down off the coast of Africa attempting a landing in turbulent conditions. In the LGA crash the NTSB said it was caused by the aircrew overreacting to wake turbulence by applying full rudder deflection. We had always been told that in a stall condition or low airspeed encounters with turbulence all aircraft were designed so that full deflection of any control surface could not result in damage to the control or its attach points.....they have now begun revising the training procedures. I guess that's cheaper than building a safe airplane. Dan the desert duck 77B ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com ; rocket-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:31 PM Subject: Commander-List: FW: If it an't "Boeing" I an't going,, Anybody has any experience with this? Makes the term "If It an't Boeing I an't going" have more meaning Subject: Air France Accident: Smoking Gun Found A Brazilian Naval unit reportedly found the complete vertical fin/rudder assembly of the doomed aircraft floating some 30 miles from the main debris field. The search for the flight recorders goes on, but given the failure history of the vertical fins on A300-series aircraft, an analysis of its structure at the point of failure will likely yield the primary cause factor in the breakup of the aircraft, with the flight recorder data (if found) providing only secondary contributing phenomena. The fin-failure-leading-to-breakup sequence is strongly suggested in the attached (below) narrative report by George Larson, Editor emeritus of Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine. It's regrettable that these aircraft are permitted to continue in routine flight operations with this known structural defect It appears that safety finishes last within Airbus Industries, behind national pride and economics. Hopefully, this accident will force the issue to be addressed, requiring at a minimum restricted operations of selected platforms, and grounding of some high-time aircraft until a re-engineered (strengthened) vertical fin/rudder attachment structure can be incorporated. This is an account of a discussion I had recently with a maintenance professional who salvages airliner airframes for a living. He has been at it for a while, dba BMI Salvage at Opa Locka Airport in Florida. In the process of stripping parts, he sees things few others are able to see. His observations confirm prior assessments of Airbus structural deficiencies within our flight test and aero structures communities by those who have seen the closely held reports of A3XX-series vertical fin failures. His observations: "I have scrapped just about every type of transport aircraft from A-310, A-320, B-747, 727, 737, 707, DC-3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, MD-80, L-188, L1011 and various Martin, Convair and KC-97 aircraft. Over a hundred of them. Airbus products are the flimsiest and most poorly designed as far as airframe structure is concerned by an almost obsession to utilize composite materials. I have one A310 vertical fin on the premises from a demonstration I just performed. It was pathetic to see the composite structure shatter as it did, something a Boeing product will not do. The vertical fin along with the composite hinges on rudder and elevators is the worst example of structural use of composites I have ever seen and I am not surprised by the current pictures of rescue crews recovering the complete Vertical fin and rudder assembly at some distance from the crash site. The Airbus line has a history of both multiple rudder losses and a vertical fin and rudder separation from the airframe as was the case in NY with AA. As an old non-radar equipped DC4 pilot who flew through many a thunderstorm in Africa along the equator, I am quite familiar with their ferocity. It is not difficult to understand how such a storm might have stressed an aircraft structure to failure at its weakest point, and especially so in the presence of instrumentation problems. I replied with this: "I'm watching very carefully the orchestration of the inquiry by French officials and Airbus. I think I can smell a concerted effort to steer discussion away from structural issues and onto sensors, etc. Now Air France, at the behest of their pilots' union, is replacing all the air data sensors on the Airbus fleet, which creates a distraction and shifts the media's focus away from the real problem. It's difficult to delve into the structural issue without wading into the Boeing vs. Airbus swamp, where any observation is instantly tainted by its origin. Americans noting any Airbus structural issues (A380 early failure of wing in static test; loss of vertical surfaces in Canadian fleet prior to AA A300, e.g.) will be attacked by the other side as partisan, biased, etc. " His follow-up: One gets a really unique insight into structural issues when one has first-hand experience in the dismantling process. I am an A&P, FEJ and an ATP with 7000 flight hours and I was absolutely stunned, flabbergasted when I realized that the majority of internal airframe structural supports on the A 310 which appear to be aluminum are actually rolled composite material with aluminum rod ends. They shattered. Three years ago we had a storm come through, with gusts up to 60-70 kts., catching several A320s tied down on the line, out in the open. The A320 elevators and rudder hinges whose actuators had been removed shattered and the rudder and elevators came off. Upon closer inspection I realized that not only were the rear spars composite but so were the hinges. While Boeing also uses composite material in its airfoil structures, the actual attach fittings for the elevators, rudder, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are all of machined aluminum." -----------------(end of narrative)--------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Some aviation videos
Date: Jul 02, 2009
Cub landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PWMKjgr24 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1PWMKjgr24&feature=related> &feature=related Scully Levin with his Harvard Team in South Africa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01E_6oxvlQA <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01E_6oxvlQA&NR=1> &NR=1 Launching float plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK-UqlGhOU <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK-UqlGhOU&NR=1> &NR=1 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Weird runway crossing
Date: Jul 06, 2009
http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.ht ml ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Subject: Re: Weird runway crossing
Good Morning Nico, Just as a bit of trivia, in years past, Sepulveda Boulevard crossed the LAX airport on the surface instead of via a tunnel as it does now. There were railroad style gates at the north and south sides of the airport. When a very heavily laden aircraft wished to depart, the gates were lowered and we just ripped on across Sepulveda until we managed to get the beast airborne! Aw, for the good old days. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 7/6/2009 9:14:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes: _http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.h tml_ (http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.html) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! yExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Weird runway crossing
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Very interesting. I was thinking, how about you writing your memoirs for posterity, Bob. It would make great reading for a generation that would never in their wildest dreams be able to conceive what it was like in the old days. I find it useful to scan through my log book, which usually brings back the particulars of a flight. I'd love to serialize them on the website with your permission. What do you think? Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Weird runway crossing Good Morning Nico, Just as a bit of trivia, in years past, Sepulveda Boulevard crossed the LAX airport on the surface instead of via a tunnel as it does now. There were railroad style gates at the north and south sides of the airport. When a very heavily laden aircraft wished to depart, the gates were lowered and we just ripped on across Sepulveda until we managed to get the beast airborne! Aw, for the good old days. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 7/6/2009 9:14:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes: http://funshoo.blogspot.com/2009/06/gibraltar-airport-runway-crosses-road.ht ml =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ An0126575x1222377077x1201454398/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm /default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JulyExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Subject: Re: Weird runway crossing
Good Morning Nico, You are very kind, but these old man musings are strictly for fun! If you care to collect anything I have written, I would be honored to know that you have the interest. Anything I have ever sent over the internet is certainly in the public domain and open to whatever anyone wants to do with it. Thanks again. Hope to get to meet you and many others on this list some time soon. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 7/6/2009 10:22:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes: Very interesting. I was thinking, how about you writing your memoirs for posterity, Bob. It would make great reading for a generation that would never in their wildest dreams be able to conceive what it was like in the old days. I find it useful to scan through my log book, which usually brings back the particulars of a flight. I'd love to serialize them on the website with your permission. What do you think? Thanks Nico **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! yExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 06, 2009
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commanders
Hello gang, Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a ye ar in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with rebuilt engi nes and props.- Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all the problems sorted out.- Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining issue s and she should be up for fun and adventure.- Maybe even a trip for the annual get together. Craig =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Winglets
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? Tom C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Winglets
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Hi Tom, You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, Ohio. (www.commander-aero.com) Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Commander-List: Winglets Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? Tom C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Winglets
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander. Tom. C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets Hi Tom, You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, Ohio. (www.commander-aero.com) Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Commander-List: Winglets Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? Tom C-GISS href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Winglets
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Hi Tom, Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you need? Regards, Stan From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander. Tom. C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets Hi Tom, You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, Ohio. (www.commander-aero.com) Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Commander-List: Winglets Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? Tom C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Winglets
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Both. Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > Hi Tom, > > Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you > need? > > Regards, > Stan > > From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out > there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander. > Tom. > C-GISS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Barry Collman > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > > Hi Tom, > > You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, > Ohio. > (www.commander-aero.com) > > Best Regards, > Barry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Fisher > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM > Subject: Commander-List: Winglets > > > Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? > > Tom > C-GISS > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2009
From: swperk(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Winglets
Hi Tom, I asked because I have the right-hand winglet from an 840, but not the left-hand one. I don't know if it would even fit your application, but if you need it (or know someone who does) let me know. Regards, Stan -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> >Sent: Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > >Both. >Tom. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do you >> need? >> >> Regards, >> Stan >> >> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >> >> Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out >> there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander. >> Tom. >> C-GISS >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Barry Collman >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >> >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, >> Ohio. >> (www.commander-aero.com) >> >> Best Regards, >> Barry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tom Fisher >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM >> Subject: Commander-List: Winglets >> >> >> Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? >> >> Tom >> C-GISS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Commanders
From: Bill Kirkwood <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com>
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Also 560E, N4618E, stored for over a year near El Paso, TX, is back with new engines and props. > Hello gang, > > Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over > a year in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with > rebuilt engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job > getting all the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up > the remaining issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. > Maybe even a trip for the annual get together. > > Craig > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Winglets
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Well I need (want) the pair but now the word is out for yours, thanks. Tom... C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: <swperk(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets > > Hi Tom, > > I asked because I have the right-hand winglet from an 840, but not the > left-hand one. I don't know if it would even fit your application, but if > you need it (or know someone who does) let me know. > > Regards, > Stan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> >>Sent: Jul 7, 2009 6:38 AM >>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >> >> >> >>Both. >>Tom. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net> >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:07 AM >>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >> >> >>> >>> Hi Tom, >>> >>> Are you looking for both or just one? If it's just one, which side do >>> you >>> need? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Stan >>> >>> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> >>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >>> >>> Thanks Barry, I am still hoping that there might be a surplus one out >>> there from a retired (read wrecked) Commander. >>> Tom. >>> C-GISS >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Barry Collman >>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Winglets >>> >>> >>> Hi Tom, >>> >>> You need to contact Commander-Aero, at Dayton-Wright Brothers airport, >>> Ohio. >>> (www.commander-aero.com) >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Barry >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Tom Fisher >>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Subject: Commander-List: Winglets >>> >>> >>> Hey folks, who should I contact for winglet information? >>> >>> Tom >>> C-GISS >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commanders
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Hi Bill & Craig, Good news guys! I'm sure we all agree that to hear of two Commanders restored to an airworthy condition is great to hear. Bill's 560E was owned from new for nearly 10 years by Douglas Aircraft Co/McDonnell Douglas. Craig's 560F was owned for just over 40 years by a single owner, Hoover Inc., of Nashville, Tennessee. Hope to see them both at Reno! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kirkwood" <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commanders | | Also 560E, N4618E, stored for over a year near El Paso, TX, is back with new engines and props. | | > Hello gang, | > | > Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a year in the middle of nowhere (Paris, TX), is running again with | > rebuilt engines and props. | > Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all the problems sorted out. | > Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. | > Maybe even a trip for the annual get together. | > | > Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Clear DayHello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Ray- Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some of us with similar systems to identify and learn. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Mansfield Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Clear Day I experienced a complete hydraulic failure three weeks ago. I noticed the hydraulic pressure fluctuating between 500 and 450 psi. I pulled the Aux. Hyd. Circuit Breaker and saved some fluid. I didn't follow Wing Commander Gordon's advice- Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I was surprised how slow one must fly for the nose wheel to extend. About 80 kts. Made a no flap, landing and held the nose off until about 30 kts. and turned off of the runway. I had a little hydraulic fluid left and the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes. Once clear of the runway, I shut it down and got a tow to the ramp. The culprit was the hydraulic pressure switch in the left nacelle under the Hydraulic Reservoir. There was no metal in the filter but we changed both pumps and replaced the switch. There was also a small leak in a hydraulic line similar to the one described by Ray Mayfield; we changed that one also. Kindest regards, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, 07 July, 2009 22:18 Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Ray- Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some of us with similar systems to identify and learn. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Mansfield Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
Clear DayHi Robert, Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the offending hyd line. Didn't think to take a px when it was off the plane. The plane is in Ft. Payne, AL now and I'm in Destin, FL so can't get a px at the moment. Besides, it's real hard to see the line where it's located. It's just forward of the accumulator in the left wheel well. One end is attached to what I believe to be the pressure switch for the aux hyd pump, and that's where it broke. Ray M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert S. Randazzo To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Ray- Can you send a photo of the offending segment? That would help some of us with similar systems to identify and learn. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Mansfield Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:40 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
Clear DayThank you your notice I will check the line today. I too have a deteriorating engine mount and need another, when you find a source please share that with us. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Mansfield To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
Clear DayThanks Tom. Will let you know if I find a source. RM ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Thank you your notice I will check the line today. I too have a deteriorating engine mount and need another, when you find a source please share that with us. Tom C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Mansfield To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will get you home. gmc From: hcourier(at)cox.net Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Date: Tue=2C 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500 Hello Commander website folks=2C The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine=2C left side motor mount. The maintenanc e folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details=2C part nos=2C etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be foun d or think you might have one=2C please call Brent Cowart=2C our maintenanc e guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne=2C A L and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners=2C MR RPM conversion. I recentl y lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well b roke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tu bing=2C not very long=2C about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hyd raulic fluid=2C gear=2C flaps=2C brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham =2C AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board=2C but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEASABIAAD/7QVoUGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNA+0AAAAAABAASAAAAAEA AQBIAAAAAQABOEJJTQPzAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAA4QklNBAoAAAAAAAEAADhCSU0nEAAAAAAACgAB AAAAAAAAAAI4QklNA/UAAAAAAEgAL2ZmAAEAbGZmAAYAAAAAAAEAL2ZmAAEAoZmaAAYAAAAAAAEA MgAAAAEAWgAAAAYAAAAAAAEANQAAAAEALQAAAAYAAAAAAAE4QklNA/gAAAAAAHAAAP////////// //////////////////8D6AAAAAD/////////////////////////////A+gAAAAA//////////// /////////////////wPoAAAAAP////////////////////////////8D6AAAOEJJTQQIAAAAAAAQ AAAAAQAAAkAAAAJAAAAAADhCSU0ECQAAAAAD9wAAAAEAAACAAAAAgAAAAYAAAMAAAAAD2wAYAAH/ 2P/gABBKRklGAAECAQBIAEgAAP/+ACdGaWxlIHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgQWRvYmUgUGhvdG9zaG9wqCA0 LjAA/+4ADkFkb2JlAGSAAAAAAf/bAIQADAgICAkIDAkJDBELCgsRFQ8MDA8VGBMTFRMTGBEMDAwM DAwRDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAENCwsNDg0QDg4QFA4ODhQUDg4ODhQRDAwM DAwREQwMDAwMDBEMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwM/8AAEQgAgACAAwEiAAIRAQMR Af/dAAQACP/EAT8AAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAMAAQIEBQYHCAkKCwEAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAA 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From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
What happened to MRRPMPerformance.com??? Their web site is down. The name seems to be available. Didn't they hold the Mr RPM STC's? Tylor Hall On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:15 AM, MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote: > lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor > line will get you home. gmc > > From: hcourier(at)cox.net > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP > Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500 > > Hello Commander website folks, > > The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some > corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. > The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be > replaced. > > Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the > details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an > animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent > Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of > Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details > about the engine mount. > > You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. > > A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I > recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left > engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was > secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part > other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" > with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft > area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, > flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a > long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and > ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss > was on board, but he's a cool guy. > > You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a > 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. > > > Ray Mansfield > 850-217-5185 > N91ES > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 08, 2009
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP
Good Morning All, Just a comment on hydraulic lines in general. It was just a few months after the DC-10 was introduced to service when one took off out of MIA and experienced a hydraulic system failure. The captain declared his emergency and returned to MIA as expeditiously as possible. When he landed two of the systems were totally inoperative and the third was almost out of fluid. Another couple of minutes and the airplane would have been uncontrollable. It seems that all three of the hydraulic systems were mounted with slightly flexible mounts to the aircraft structure, but all of the hydraulic lines were solid tubing. The primary unit failed. The secondary took over as it should but the additional strain failed one of it's supply tubes as well. The third system was supplying control, but a crack developed in it's tubing and fluid was being lost. I may have some of the details all wrong, but the fix was to replace all of the connecting tubing with flexible lines in lieu of the fixed tubing. It was a fleet wide mandatory immediate action AD. If the short tubing in the Aero Commander could possibly be replaced with a hunk of high quality flexible tubing, it is certainly something I would consider doing! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 7/8/2009 8:42:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kamala(at)MSN.COM writes: lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will get you home. gmc ____________________________________ From: hcourier(at)cox.net Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500 Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES **************Popular laptop deals plus free shipping! plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Commander 680 FLP
Date: Jul 08, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Yoda replaced that line on 400CH with flexible line for the exact same reason. It wasn't leaking, but the pressure regulator was. When we took out the regulator so that he could cut new gaskets for it, we discovered that the flare was cut through about 40% of the way around. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of BobsV35B(at)aol.com Sent: Wed 7/8/2009 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Good Morning All, Just a comment on hydraulic lines in general. It was just a few months after the DC-10 was introduced to service when one took off out of MIA and experienced a hydraulic system failure. The captain declared his emergency and returned to MIA as expeditiously as possible. When he landed two of the systems were totally inoperative and the third was almost out of fluid. Another couple of minutes and the airplane would have been uncontrollable. It seems that all three of the hydraulic systems were mounted with slightly flexible mounts to the aircraft structure, but all of the hydraulic lines were solid tubing. The primary unit failed. The secondary took over as it should but the additional strain failed one of it's supply tubes as well. The third system was supplying control, but a crack developed in it's tubing and fluid was being lost. I may have some of the details all wrong, but the fix was to replace all of the connecting tubing with flexible lines in lieu of the fixed tubing. It was a fleet wide mandatory immediate action AD. If the short tubing in the Aero Commander could possibly be replaced with a hunk of high quality flexible tubing, it is certainly something I would consider doing! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 7/8/2009 8:42:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kamala(at)MSN.COM writes: lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will get you home. gmc ____________________________________ From: hcourier(at)cox.net Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500 Hello Commander website folks, The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. Ray Mansfield 850-217-5185 N91ES **************Popular laptop deals plus free shipping! plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 08, 2009
From: Ray Mansfeld <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Commander 680 FLP
Did the part have a yellow tag or a GREEN tag? Ha! Ha! ---- MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote: > > lost a line in west texas. in an emergency a John Deere tractor line will get you home. gmc > > > From: hcourier(at)cox.net > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Commander 680 FLP > Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:39:48 -0500 > > > > > Hello Commander website folks, > > The plane I fly is going through it's annual inspection and some corrosion has been found on the left engine, left side motor mount. The maintenance folks say it's bad enough that the mount must be replaced. > > Sooooooo.....we're looking for a motor mount. I don't know the details, part nos, etc. If you have knowledge of where such an animal can be found or think you might have one, please call Brent Cowart, our maintenance guy at 256-845-9129. He's the owner of Valley Aviation in Ft. Payne, AL and knows part nos and details about the engine mount. > > You can also email me or call with any information if that's easier. > > A note to any Aero Commander 680FLP owners, MR RPM conversion. I recently lost all hydraulics when a small hyd line in the left engine wheel well broke. It broke at the flange where the line was secured by the nut to the connector. I can't describe the part other than it was normal aluminium tubing, not very long, about 4-5" with a compount curve and was in front of the accumulator in the aft area of the left wheel well. We lost all hydraulic fluid, gear, flaps, brakes and steering. Landed at Birmingham, AL....there's a long runway there. Coasted into the grass between the taxiway and ramp otherwise couldn't stop. No damage to plane or pax. The boss was on board, but he's a cool guy. > > You might want to check for cracked hydraulic lines if you have a 680FLP. Call me if you want more details. > > > > Ray Mansfield > 850-217-5185 > N91ES > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2009
> the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes FLPs have power brakes????????????????????????????? -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 09, 2009
From: <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE
I think that all of them have power brakes. Bill ---- N395V wrote: > > > > the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes > > > FLPs have power brakes????????????????????????????? > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE
Date: Jul 10, 2009
I have read that Bob Hoover has only two mods to his Strike, one an electric un-feather pump and two an electric aux. hyd. pump so he had brakes when flying with both engines feathered. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:06 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander 680 FLP+ HYDRAULIC fAILURE > > I think that all of them have power brakes. > > Bill > > > ---- N395V wrote: >> >> >> >> > the Aux. Hyd. Pump provided some brakes >> >> >> FLPs have power brakes????????????????????????????? >> >> -------- >> Milt >> 2003 F1 Rocket >> 2006 Radial Rocket >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252252#252252 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Fly-In
Date: Jul 09, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Hi All, Just a reminder to make your hotel reservations for the Fly-In if you haven't done so already!!!!!? Rooms are filling up fast so make sure you get yours reserved. ~jb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: TCFG Fly-In
Date: Jul 09, 2009
WCG- I've got my room reservation made. Comes complete with home cooked meals, a lovely wife and a golden retriever to keep my feet warm. Looking forward to seeing all of you in our home town. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:32 PM Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In Hi All, Just a reminder to make your hotel reservations for the Fly-In if you haven't done so already!!!!! Rooms are filling up fast so make sure you get yours reserved. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Manuscript Submitted
Date: Jul 11, 2009
Hello everybody, My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not. Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so? Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander in this book. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: Manuscript Submitted
Date: Jul 11, 2009
Andrew- Well done! I had no idea you writing- but I've touched wood on your behalf. I have tremendous admiration for anyone who can write something of that length. Please be sure to let us know when you succeed in getting published. Will gladly pick up a copy even if it makes no mention of a commander. Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted Hello everybody, My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not. Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so? Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander in this book. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Manuscript Submitted
Date: Jul 11, 2009
Hi Andrew. It would be an honor. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted Hello everybody, My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not. Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so? Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander in this book. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Submitted
Date: Jul 11, 2009
Fine by me, I look forward to reading it. Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted Hello everybody, My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not. Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so? Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander in this book. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Submitted
Date: Jul 12, 2009
Andrew; Fine by me also, I will you in my thoughts. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Submitted Hello everybody, My publisher asked me to submit my manuscript "Dragon in the Sky" for review. I should know within a couple of weeks if it is accepted or not. Please pray/hold thumbs/touch wood/whatever... that it is accepted. I decided to keep the crash and search and rescue scene in the book, so my thanks must go to Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod, and Bruce Campbell for their help on S&R. Is there anybody I missed? Please let me know if I have. Also my thanks to Nico again for info on the Cessna 310 R. Next, I wanted to acknowledge you in the book - is it OK that I do so? Now for apologies - sorry - very sorry - there is no mention of a Commander in this book. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Right of the People
Date: Jul 12, 2009
I found this article by Paul Berge in Pacific Flyer (www.pacificflyer.com) in the July 2009 edition. Paul has been my favorite aviation author for a long time. ------------------------------- They gathered in a circle beneath the hangar's dusty shop lamp. Shadows forced Curtis to shift to keep the newspaper in the light. "Read it again," someone asked in a soft voice. Curtis cleared his throat before reading the newly ratified amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and fly Aircraft, shall not be infringed." "Man, that's good," Jean muttered. "And all in one sentence. Did you notice? That's good writing. How many words in it?" Curtiss counted and answered, "Twenty-seven." And they all stood quietly considering the impact of those few words that seemed to guarantee their right - not merely a privilege - to fly. "Shall not be infringed, " Doug repeated. His voice rolled up from some deep recess, gaining power as it left his mouth,. "That means we - the people - got the right to fly, and no one, not even TSA, can take it away; 'bout damn time, too." And most of the crowd mumbled agreement, except Thomas who frowned and asked to see the paper. He read it slowly to himself before saying, "This first part concerns me." He tapped the paper with a finger. "The way it starts, 'A well regulated Sky, being necessary to the security of a free State...'" "So what?" Doug interrupted. "Makes sense to have some rules, like we already got for IFR, VFR, right-of-way and such..." "Just concerns me," Thomas hesitated. "Like, maybe, the government might point to the 'well-regulated' part whenever it wants to clamp down .." "Shall not be infringed," Doug struck back. "That means we fly what we own, and they got nothin' to say about it!" The vehemence with which he defended the phrase masked an unspoken fear. Thomas shook his head. "Remember when TSA made us all get these silly badges just to get to our own hangars?" He flicked the tag clipped to his overalls. "They decide what's well regulated." Doug slowly unclipped his security badge, smiled and tossed it to the floor. The other stood in awe witnessing what they knew as an FAR violation. Doug drew up his full six-foot-two-inch height and ground the offending badge beneath his boot heel. Jean was next, and after she flung her security badge to the oily pavement the other pilots threw theirs into a loose pile. Only Thomas remained still wearing his badge. The clack on an air compressor kicking on covered an uncomfortable silence. But by the time it quit Thomas had gathered the badges and, adding his own, dropped them into a trashcan. Once outside the hangar with the aerodrome beacon flashing overhead, he drizzled avgas over them. And then, before dropping a lit match, he intoned, "Shall not be infringed!" It'd be left to future generations of pilots to decide if it was the Constitutional amendment or the People's interpretation that saved aviation. But on that July 4th evening a handful of rebel pilots declared independence from tyranny. ----------------------------- That about says it, Paul. Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject:
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Sir Barry=2C I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping tha t on July 11=2C 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in acciden t at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. gm c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Subject: Re:
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals(at)deneals.com>
On 7/13/09 11:43 AM, "MASON CHEVAILLIER" wrote: > Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping tha t on > July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in accident at AXX. > Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. Glad everyone=B9s okay. These are indeed, tough birds. -- Deneal Schilmeister, ATP Learjet St. Louis http://deneals.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re:
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Hi Mason, Oh heck. So sorry to hear about the accident and that '70QT is a mess. But, I'm thankful that nobody was hurt. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER To: commander-list Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Commander-List: Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record keeping that on July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was involved in accident at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. gmc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Mason, What happened? Tylor Hall On Jul 13, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Barry Collman wrote: > Hi Mason, > > Oh heck. > So sorry to hear about the accident and that '70QT is a mess. > But, I'm thankful that nobody was hurt. > > Best Regards, > Barry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MASON CHEVAILLIER > To: commander-list > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:43 PM > Subject: Commander-List: > > Sir Barry, I regret to inform you for your meticulous record > keeping that on July 11, 2009 AeroCommander S/N 680F1208-09 was > involved in accident at AXX. Both pilot and passenger were > unharmed. Aircraft is a mess. gmc > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: You've received a photo from facebook.com! DON'T OPEN
AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Folks, This message most likely contains links to viruses. My understanding is that Facebook doesn't send photos to the public, only subscribers do. Just delete it when it shows up in your mailbox with this subject matter. Thanks Nico _____ From: franco(at)server.18carati.com [mailto:franco(at)server.18carati.com] On Behalf Of facebook.com Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:24 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: FW: You've received a photo from facebook.com! DON'T
OPEN AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Nico - thanks for posting this. TELUS (my company) marks it as spam and also advise not to click on the link. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'Art & Carla White' Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:10 PM Subject: Commander-List: FW: You've received a photo from facebook.com! DON'T OPEN AND CLICK ON THE IMAGES Folks, This message most likely contains links to viruses. My understanding is that Facebook doesn't send photos to the public, only subscribers do. Just delete it when it shows up in your mailbox with this subject matter. Thanks Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: franco(at)server.18carati.com [mailto:franco(at)server.18carati.com] On Behalf Of facebook.com Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:24 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't find the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check and don't know if it's still there. Ray M ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't find the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
tom=2C both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700 Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale=2C I can't fin d the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
I'm sorry Mason, I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in the ocean. Keep me advised, I feel for you, glad you are unhurt physically. Tom. C-GISS cell:604-649-9320 ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER To: commander-list Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine tom, both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700 Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't find the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
I'll look, thanks. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Mansfield To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check and don't know if it's still there. Ray M ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't find the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
Mason, are you raising my insurance premiums? Glad you are OK! Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine I'm sorry Mason, I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in the ocean. Keep me advised, I feel for you, glad you are unhurt physically. Tom. C-GISS cell:604-649-9320 ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER To: commander-list Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine tom, both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700 Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't find the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: IO720 engine
Date: Jul 15, 2009
sorry! From: dongirod(at)bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 15:26:11 -0700 Mason=2C are you raising my insurance premiums? Glad you are OK! Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Fisher Sent: Wednesday=2C July 15=2C 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO720 engine I'm sorry Mason=2C I too have lost a pristine bird (500B) although in the o cean. Keep me advised=2C I feel for you=2C glad you are unhurt physically. Tom. C-GISS cell:604-649-9320 ----- Original Message ----- From: MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Wednesday=2C July 15=2C 2009 9:40 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: IO720 engine tom=2C both engines on 70QT will probably be available. gmc From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine Date: Wed=2C 15 Jul 2009 08:37:17 -0700 Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale=2C I can't fin d the related Email. I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to make metal. Tom. C-GISS st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Subject: Re: IO720 engine
Folks, The eBay listing was for two firewall forward IO 720 from a scrapped 500S, the engine and prop details read well, as I recall here was no bid at about $16,000 each for the package. Cheers, Bill Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Mansfield wrote: > > I was told about 3-4 weeks ago there was one on eBay. I haven't check > and don't know if it's still there. > Ray M > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Fisher > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:37 AM > Subject: Commander-List: IO720 engine > > > Somebody had mentioned they had a couple of IO720's for sale, I can't > find the related Email. > I am currently looking to replace my left engine as it is starting to > make metal. > > Tom. > C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: 500a air pump
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Anyone know about the engine driven vacuum pumps on 500a's? Any parts out there for these old oil lubed pumps? Anybody have approval to rebuild and are kits available? Just another shot in the dark... Have an aro (aero) design part no. 4850176-3, model # 21217, alcoa # 505-c2d. Thanks for any input! William D. Owens, GISP Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Andrew; Congratulations! God Bless, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:44 AM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07/16/09 18:00:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to have copy, signed if possible. THanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Vac Pump...
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Thanks on the Vac pump post... Found one new for $600.00. Have a Great DAY!!! William D. Owens, GISP Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy! God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to have copy, signed if possible. THanks Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Well thank you very much, I am waiting with baited breath. Tom. C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy! God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to have copy, signed if possible. THanks Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Website
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Folks, The website is off-line for a few hours. This is to facilitate a better hosting platform that will put me in a position to respond more readily to changes and deploy the new website, which has been in the making for quite a while already. Thanks for your patience. We are moving ahead to excellence! Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L D Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Manuscript Accepted
Date: Jul 18, 2009
Andrew; Thank you very much, look forward to reading it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Thanks, Nico. You, Tom, Don, and Bruce all get a signed copy! God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Congratulations. Let me know when it hits the shelves, I'd like to have copy, signed if possible. THanks Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:44 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Manuscript Accepted Hi Folks, I got word today that the publisher wants to publish "Dragon in the Sky" - now it is just ironing out the fine details in the contract. Thanks for all your help. God bless, Andrew href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07/18/09 21:14:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Draggon
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dragons


May 27, 2009 - July 20, 2009

Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dm