Commander-List Archive Browser

Commander-Archive.digest.vol-do
September 05, 2009 - November 05, 2009

We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would app reciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal inform ation or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. =C2- Looking forward to the Fly-In.=C2- What a special treat to have Hoover attend our awards Banquet.=C2- See ya in a couple of weeks.=C2- =C2- ~jb href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://f orums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matro nics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c htt="http://forums.matronics.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http:/ /for>; =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5- =C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A. =C2=AE'=C2=AB8^ =B0=C2jw^=C2=AC=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh =C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5- =C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2 =A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2 =B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5 -=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92' =93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1 =C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2 =B7=EF=BD=C2=A8ky=C3=B1=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93 =C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B0=C2=A8=C5=A1f=C2=A7 u=C3=AA=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8Ba=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93 =C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B0=C2=A8=C5=A1f=C2=A7 u=C3=AA=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8Bl4N4=82=AC=99X@E9L=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+ y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2-=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF =B0=C2=ABayg=BA=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5- =C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2hm=C2=B6=C5=B8 =C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o =C3=9A=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2u=C5=BEm(=C2 =AD|=C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2 =A9=C2=C5-=C3=AD ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Em ail Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M 4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE' =C2=AB8^ =B0=C2jw^=C2=AC=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE =C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8B Ey=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3 =98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3 =8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5- =BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BDA 4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2 =B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9 =C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=EF=BD=C2=A8ky=C3=B1=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30 =84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD =C2=A2=C2=B0=C2=A8=C5=A1f=C2=A7u=C3=AA=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8Ba=C2=B6=C3=9A=C3 0=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2 =AD=C2=A2=C2=B0=C2=A8=C5=A1f=C2=A7u=C3=AA=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8Bl4N4=82=AC =99X@E9L=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2 =B2-=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg=BA=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1 j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA' =B0=C3=8B=C2=A2hm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2 =B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=9A=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A =C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2u=C5=BEm(=C2=AD|=C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2 =AE=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9=C2=C5-=C3=AD ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Sep 05, 2009
Hi Roland, I took off from a rough strip and as I rotated the cabin was filled with a sweet smelling vapor making the cockpit almost immediately QBI, which fortunately cleared up quickly but a vapor continued to pour out from under the instrument panel. The inside of the plane was covered in an oily substance, and as the hydraulic pressure dropped the wheels started drooping. I flew back, feathered the engines on short final, landed and sat like a passenger as the plane castored off the runway and came to a stop in the rough. It was the pressure gauge's tube that cracked and atomized the hydraulic fluid into the cabin. I cannot remember whether grommets or supports were not installed that caused the pressure line to vibrate excessively and break but it may be worth your trouble to check that it is properly supported. Hope this helps. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Nico, Can you elaborate on your incident with your 500? I have a 500 and would be interested to know the problem. Thanks in advance, Roland Gilliam > From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > Thanks Nico, I will be unable to attend Carson city especially now! > Tom. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > > > > Hi Tom. > > > > Sorry about the loss. This is the second one you lost, right? The first > > was > > a lot more traumatic if I remember correctly. > > However, I had a similar situation in my 500, but, fortunately, there were > > very wide "side burns" on the runway and I managed to roll to a stop in > > the > > rough without any other damage than the broken hydraulic lines. > > > > Hope to see you in Carson City. > > > > Nico > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher > > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:30 PM > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > --> > > > > Thanks Buddy, I am old friends with the 680FLP but I should keep my mind > > open to different models, I would like too peruse the data. > > > > Tom. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <budplaster(at)aol.com> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:30 PM > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > >> > >> I AM PREPARING TO SELL MY 685 WHICH MAY BE THE ONE WITH THE LOWEST > >> TIMES-----TT 2100 HRS, ENGINES 125 HRS. AND LOWEST PRICE...$200,000. > >> FIRM. > > > >> IF INTERESTED, I WILL SEND YOU A COMPLETE SPECIFICATION SHEET AND > >> PHOTOGRAPHS. > >> > >> BUDDY PLASTER > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:33 pm > >> Subject: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > >> > >> > >> > >> There is a change all right. > >> > >> > >> > >> C-GISS (680FLP (Mr.RPM)) is no more, total hydraulic failure in the > >> starboard brake line, landed by the numbers without flaps, brakes or > >> steering, ended up careening across a ditch which bent the main spar and > >> tore off the right main landing gear and skidded to a stop on the right > >> side of the belly. > >> > >> My insurance company will be offering it up for sale "where is, as is". > >> > >> > >> > >> Does anyone know of a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) available for sale? > >> > >> > >> > >> Tom Fisher > >> > >> formally C-GISS > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com > >> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> > >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:47 AM > >> > >> Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi TCFG members, > >> > >> > >> > >> We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would > >> appreciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal > >> information or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. > >> > >> 0D > >> > >> Looking forward to the Fly-In. What a special treat to have Hoover attend > >> our awards Banquet. See ya in a couple of weeks. > >> > >> > >> ~jb > >> > >> > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro > >> nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > >> > >> > >> > >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _================= > > > _____ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you're up to on Facebook. Find out more. <http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Nico=2C Thanks much=2C Would pumping the handle hav given you any help=2Cor did you do that? My understanding is the tank has a small amount of fluid that the pump can' t pump out and you have one chance to use it. However in your case it woul d probably have atomized anyway. Roland From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Date: Sat=2C 5 Sep 2009 21:49:35 -0700 Hi Roland=2C I took off from a rough strip and as I rotated the cabin was filled with a sweet smelling vapor making the cockpit almost immediately QBI=2C which for tunately cleared up quickly but a vapor continued to pour out from under th e instrument panel. The inside of the plane was covered in an oily substanc e=2C and as the hydraulic pressure dropped the wheels started drooping. I flew back=2C feathered the engines on short final=2C landed and sat like a passenger as the plane castored off the runway and came to a stop in the rough. It was the pressure gauge's tube that cracked and atomized the hydra ulic fluid into the cabin. I cannot remember whether grommets or supports w ere not installed that caused the pressure line to vibrate excessively and break but it may be worth your trouble to check that it is properly support ed. Hope this helps. Thanks Nico From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam Sent: Saturday=2C September 05=2C 2009 6:21 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Nico=2C Can you elaborate on your incident with your 500? I have a 500 and would be interested to know the problem. Thanks in advance=2C Roland Gilliam > From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > Date: Sat=2C 5 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > p.bc.ca> > > Thanks Nico=2C I will be unable to attend Carson city especially now! > Tom. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > To: > Sent: Friday=2C September 04=2C 2009 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > > > > Hi Tom. > > > > Sorry about the loss. This is the second one you lost=2C right? The fir st > > was > > a lot more traumatic if I remember correctly. > > However=2C I had a similar situation in my 500=2C but=2C fortunately=2C there were > > very wide "side burns" on the runway and I managed to roll to a stop in > > the > > rough without any other damage than the broken hydraulic lines. > > > > Hope to see you in Carson City. > > > > Nico > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fis her > > Sent: Friday=2C September 04=2C 2009 5:30 PM > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > --> > > > > Thanks Buddy=2C I am old friends with the 680FLP but I should keep my m ind > > open to different models=2C I would like too peruse the data. > > > > Tom. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <budplaster(at)aol.com> > > To: > > Sent: Friday=2C September 04=2C 2009 4:30 PM > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > >> > >> I AM PREPARING TO SELL MY 685 WHICH MAY BE THE ONE WITH THE LOWEST > >> TIMES-----TT 2100 HRS=2C ENGINES 125 HRS. AND LOWEST PRICE...$200=2C00 0. > >> FIRM. > > > >> IF INTERESTED=2C I WILL SEND YOU A COMPLETE SPECIFICATION SHEET AND > >> PHOTOGRAPHS. > >> > >> BUDDY PLASTER > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> Sent: Fri=2C Sep 4=2C 2009 1:33 pm > >> Subject: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > >> > >> > >> > >> There is a change all right. > >> > >> > >> > >> C-GISS (680FLP (Mr.RPM)) is no more=2C total hydraulic failure in the > >> starboard brake line=2C landed by the numbers without flaps=2C brakes or > >> steering=2C ended up careening across a ditch which bent the main spar and > >> tore off the right main landing gear and skidded to a stop on the righ t > >> side of the belly. > >> > >> My insurance company will be offering it up for sale "where is=2C as i s". > >> > >> > >> > >> Does anyone know of a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) available for sale? > >> > >> > >> > >> Tom Fisher > >> > >> formally C-GISS > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com > >> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> > >> Sent: Friday=2C September 04=2C 2009 9:47 AM > >> > >> Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi TCFG members=2C > >> > >> > >> > >> We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would > >> appreciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal > >> information or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. > >> > >> 0D > >> > >> Looking forward to the Fly-In. What a special treat to have Hoover att end > >> our awards Banquet. See ya in a couple of weeks. > >> > >> > >> ~jb > >> > >> > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www. matro > >> nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/c > >> > >> > >> > >> -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _================= > > > Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. Find out more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
JB, Current details: Craig Kennedy 3905 State St, 7-266 Santa Barbara, CA 93105 805 231-3236 N747H ________________________________ From: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 9:47:53 AM Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory Hi TCFG members, We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would appreciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal information or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. Looking forward to the Fly-In. What a special treat to have Hoover attend our awards Banquet. See ya in a couple of weeks. ~jb ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI KIDS ? I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.? Over my 30 years and well over?2000 hours of Commander experience,? I have suffered three complete?hydraulic failures.? All in FAT nacelled Commanders.? It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.? The FAT nacelles do not have an electric?hyd aux pump.? They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric?aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.? The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.? There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.? The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.? There is a fitting in?the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only?the aux pump.? The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure swi tch.? So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.? When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer? the airplane.? The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure.??Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency?fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.? I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went? to the floor.? I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor?valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle.? The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!? I learned an important lesson that day.? ALWAYS check the hyd gauge?AND press on the brakes on short final (more later).? A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,?N222JS.? I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.? A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.? I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).? Grove field is only 2200 feet long?for landing.? The gear extended and locked.? The flaps were of course up.? I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency.? I?switched the valve in the floor and waited?to touch down.??The landing was normal, if a little fast, and?as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure.? I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering.? Better to depress the brakes and build the needed pressure.? It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.? A flex line from the back side of the firewall had?failed. The?last failure was only a couple?months ago in a 680?Commander destined for a A&P school.? Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last?gear down ferry.? The airplane had only been flown?once in the last 25 years.? The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned.? The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.? Those old engines ran great!? When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down.? With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of?the flap speed.? As I turned final, I did my?gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure.? The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat.? I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.? It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they?started down first, changing the airplanes trim.?With touchdown only seconds aw ay, I?decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited?for the mains to touch.? I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left.? As the?nose touched?I?squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle.? The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.? It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself.? Hence the swerving on landing.? With the?drag from the windmilling?LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.? I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to?parking using the hand pump.? Thought this might be of value to some of you other Commander drivers.? See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Roland, I cannot remember exactly but my recollection is that I used the pump to make sure that the gear is down and locked. It didn't feel as if it did anything and I slowed down to about 80 kts when the gear dropped into place. Why I feathered the props was perhaps the most questionable action I took but I feared a gear collapse regardless of three greens, which was perhaps not that smart. I had a 6,500' runway with a slight uphill and having kept the engines going I could have used asymmetric power to keep the plane on the runway. I didn't want to run off the end of the runway which was a concern I remember. Anyway, it turned out OK. Food for a lot of reflection, though. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:59 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Nico, Thanks much, Would pumping the handle hav given you any help,or did you do that? My understanding is the tank has a small amount of fluid that the pump can't pump out and you have one chance to use it. However in your case it would probably have atomized anyway. Roland _____ From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 21:49:35 -0700 Hi Roland, I took off from a rough strip and as I rotated the cabin was filled with a sweet smelling vapor making the cockpit almost immediately QBI, which fortunately cleared up quickly but a vapor continued to pour out from under the instrument panel. The inside of the plane was covered in an oily substance, and as the hydraulic pressure dropped the wheels started drooping. I flew back, feathered the engines on short final, landed and sat like a passenger as the plane castored off the runway and came to a stop in the rough. It was the pressure gauge's tube that cracked and atomized the hydraulic fluid into the cabin. I cannot remember whether grommets or supports were not installed that caused the pressure line to vibrate excessively and break but it may be worth your trouble to check that it is properly supported. Hope this helps. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Nico, Can you elaborate on your incident with your 500? I have a 500 and would be interested to know the problem. Thanks in advance, Roland Gilliam > From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > Thanks Nico, I will be unable to attend Carson city especially now! > Tom. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > > > > Hi Tom. > > > > Sorry about the loss. This is the second one you lost, right? The first > > was > > a lot more traumatic if I remember correctly. > > However, I had a similar situation in my 500, but, fortunately, there were > > very wide "side burns" on the runway and I managed to roll to a stop in > > the > > rough without any other damage than the broken hydraulic lines. > > > > Hope to see you in Carson City. > > > > Nico > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher > > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:30 PM > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > --> > > > > Thanks Buddy, I am old friends with the 680FLP but I should keep my mind > > open to different models, I would like too peruse the data. > > > > Tom. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <budplaster(at)aol.com> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:30 PM > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > > > >> > >> I AM PREPARING TO SELL MY 685 WHICH MAY BE THE ONE WITH THE LOWEST > >> TIMES-----TT 2100 HRS, ENGINES 125 HRS. AND LOWEST PRICE...$200,000. > >> FIRM. > > > >> IF INTERESTED, I WILL SEND YOU A COMPLETE SPECIFICATION SHEET AND > >> PHOTOGRAPHS. > >> > >> BUDDY PLASTER > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:33 pm > >> Subject: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > >> > >> > >> > >> There is a change all right. > >> > >> > >> > >> C-GISS (680FLP (Mr.RPM)) is no more, total hydraulic failure in the > >> starboard brake line, landed by the numbers without flaps, brakes or > >> steering, ended up careening across a ditch which bent the main spar and > >> tore off the right main landing gear and skidded to a stop on the right > >> side of the belly. > >> > >> My insurance company will be offering it up for sale "where is, as is". > >> > >> > >> > >> Does anyone know of a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) available for sale? > >> > >> > >> > >> Tom Fisher > >> > >> formally C-GISS > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com > >> > >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > >> > >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:47 AM > >> > >> Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi TCFG members, > >> > >> > >> > >> We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would > >> appreciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal > >> information or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. > >> > >> 0D > >> > >> Looking forward to the Fly-In. What a special treat to have Hoover attend > >> our awards Banquet. See ya in a couple of weeks. > >> > >> > >> ~jb > >> > >> > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro > >> nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > >> > >> > >> > >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _================= > > > _____ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you're up to on Facebook. Find <http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009> out more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you're up to on Facebook. Find out more. <http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!) ; ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!) ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!) ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Agreed John=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________ ______________________=0AFrom: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>=0ATo: comm ander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 7:09:40 PM=0ASub ject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHi all,=0A-=0AI also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on ta keoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraul ic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle do wn & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thoug ht I-could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down.=0A-=0ASince I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the ru nway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander ta il/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed a t about-10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell cr ank, and some rivets.=0A-=0AI guess it's true what they say, "fly the air plane all the way until it stops".=0A-=0AIncidentally, I probably could h ave done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to r oll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll thr ough the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully.=0A-=0A/John=0A-=0APS: Nic o, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circ umstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked , dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 kno ts...=0A-=0A-=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: owner-co mmander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: Hydra ulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHI KIDS=0A=0AI thought I might share with you some re al world experience regarding hyd failures.- Over my 30 years and well ov er-2000 hours of Commander experience,- I have suffered three complete -hydraulicfailures.- All in FAT nacelled Commanders.- It would be goo d to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FA T nacelled airplanes.- The FAT nacelles do not have an electric-hyd aux pump.- They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but ins tead of an electric-aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pi pe in the reservoir and a hand pump.- The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.- There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended t o isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.- The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.- There is a fitting in-the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only-the aux pump.- The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch.- So, if a leak occurs, the en gine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.- When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dump ing the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer- the airplane.- The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for th e engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in th e floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used t o build pressure.--Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emer gency-fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it.=0AMy fir st failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.- I had completed a no rmal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went- to the floor.- I was slow to react but did finally break t he code and switched the floor-valve and as the end of the runway approac hed, I feverishly pumped the handle.- The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!- I learned an important lesson that day.- ALWA YS check the hyd gauge-AND press on the brakes on short final (more later ).- A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard.=0AFailure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,-N222JS.- I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1 ) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.- A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.- I elected to fly ac ross he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).- Grove field is only 2200 feet long -for landing.- The gear extended and locked.- The flaps were of cours e up.- I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to dec lare an emergency.- I-switched the valve in the floor and waited-to t ouch down.--The landing was normal, if a little fast, and-as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regul ated the braking pressure.- I have found it nearly impossible, in the rea l world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/stee ring.- Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.- It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.- A flex line from the back side of the firewall had-failed.=0AThe-last failure was only a couple-mon ths ago in a 680-Commander destined for a A&P school.- Morris Kernick a nd I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last-gear down f erry.- The airplane had only been flown-once in the last 25 years.- T he hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly co ncerned.- The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.- Those old e ngines ran great!- When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap h andle fully down.- With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of -the flap speed.- As I turned final, I did my-gauge and break check a nd to my surprise, there was NO pressure.- The flaps I had called for nev er extended and the brakes were flat.- I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.- It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they-started down first, changing the airplanes trim.-With touchdown only seconds away, I-decided the best s alvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again wa ited-for the mains to touch.- I had already pulled both throttles to fu ll idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. - As the-nose touched-I-squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. - The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.- It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. - Hence the swerving on landing.- With the-drag from the windmilling -LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.- I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to-parking using t he hand pump.- Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Comm ander drivers.- See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)- ;=0A=0A=0Ahref="http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat ronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr =========================0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Great story John.. That brings up another great point.? The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure.? The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them.? These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside.??The nose gear is another story.? The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live.? These need?inspected and lubricated every year,?more often?if the airplane is parked out.? To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel.? I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!!? These are often overlooked by mechanics.? Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual.? This is done?on jacks, with the gear up and locked.? Then,?by?bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps?up and down.? It takes awhile!? Nex t, place the gear handle down.? All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto.? If any are "sleepy", investigate.? There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased.? jb????? -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). ? /J From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing ? John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, ? I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I?could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. ? Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about?10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. ? I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". ? Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. ? /John ? PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ? ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS ? I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.? Over my 30 years and well over?2000 hours of Commander experience,? I have suffered three complete?hydraulic failures.? All in FAT nacelled Commanders.? It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.? The FAT nacelles do not have an electric?hyd aux pump.? They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric?aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.? The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.? There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.? The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.? There is a fitting in?the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only?the aux pump.? The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure swi tch.? So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.? When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer? the airplane.? The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure.??Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency?fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.? I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went? to the floor.? I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor?valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle.? The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!? I learned an important lesson that day.? ALWAYS check the hyd gauge?AND press on the brakes on short final (more later).? A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,?N222JS.? I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.? A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.? I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).? Grove field is only 2200 feet long?for landing.? The gear extended and locked.? The flaps were of course up.? I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency.? I?switched the valve in the floor and waited?to touch down.??The landing was normal, if a little fast, and?as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure.? I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering.? Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.? It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.? A flex line from the back side of the firewall had?failed. The?last failure was only a couple?months ago in a 680?Commander destined for a A&P school.? Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last?gear down ferry.? The airplane had only been flown?once in the last 25 years.? The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned.? The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.? Those old engines ran great!? When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down.? With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of?the flap speed.? As I turned final, I did my?gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure.? The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat.? I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.? It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they?started down first, changing the airplanes trim.?With touchdown only seconds aw ay, I?decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited?for the mains to touch.? I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left.? As the?nose touched?I?squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle.? The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.? It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself.? Hence the swerving on landing.? With the?drag from the windmilling?LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.? I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to?parking using the hand pump.? Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Commander drivers.? See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)? ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Hi Jimbob, Believe me, the vision of that spring was in my head after I tried to cycle the gear again. All I could think was, "stupid, stupid, stupid." I KNEW that the gear would lock if I just LEFT THE HANDLE ALONE after putting it in the down position the first time. Of course, I got impatient and jumped at the lever when I saw a bit of pressure come back into the system. Once I hit the gear lever the second time, I'd shot my one chance at having the gear go down via spring/gravity....no chance it'll go back over center, right? Nothing like a $7,000 repair bill to remind you of the one dumb thing you did during the event. There's a good chance that if I had just left the lever where it was, the nosegear would have locked and it would have been an uneventful landing, even without flaps, brakes or steering. I guarantee I'll do it differently next time! /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point. The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure. The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them. These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside. The nose gear is another story. The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live. These need inspected and lubricated every year, more often if the airplane is parked out. To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel. I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!! These are often overlooked by mechanics. Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual. This is done on jacks, with the gear up and locked. Then,&nbs p;by bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps up and down. It takes awhile! Next, place the gear handle down. All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto. If any are "sleepy", investigate. There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased. jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
It had a happy ending, so hey, you did good.? How is your new engine??? jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:28 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi Jimbob, ? Believe me, the vision of that spring was in my head after I tried to cycle the gear again. All I could think was, "stupid, stupid, stupid." I KNEW that the gear would lock if I just LEFT THE HANDLE ALONE after putting it in the down position the first time. Of course, I got impatient and jumped at the lever when I saw a bit of pressure come back into the system. Once I hit the gear lever the second time, I'd shot my one chance at having the gear go down via spring/gravity....no chance it'll go back over center, right? ? Nothing like a $7,000 repair bill to remind you of the one dumb thing you did during the event. There's a good chance that if I had just left the lever where it was, the nosegear would have locked and it would have been an uneventful landing, even without flaps, brakes or steering. I guarantee I'll do it differently next time! ? /J From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point.? The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure.? The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them.? These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside.??The nose gear is another story.? The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live.? These need?inspected and lubricated every year,?more often?if the airplane is parked out.? To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel.? I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!!? These are often overlooked by mechanics.? Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual.? This is done?on jacks, with the gear up and locked.? Then,&nbs p;by?bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps?up and down.? It takes awhile !? Next, place the gear handle down.? All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto.? If any are "sleepy", investigate.? There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased.? jb????? -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). ? /J From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing ? John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, ? I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I?could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. ? Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about?10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. ? I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". ? Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. ? /John ? PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ? ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS ? I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.? Over my 30 years and well over?2000 hours of Commander experience,? I have suffered three complete?hydraulic failures.? All in FAT nacelled Commanders.? It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.? The FAT nacelles do not have an electric?hyd aux pump.? They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric?aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.? The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.? There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.? The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.? There is a fitting in?the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only?the aux pump.? The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure swi tch.? So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.? When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer? the airplane.? The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure.??Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency?fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.? I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went? to the floor.? I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor?valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle.? The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!? I learned an important lesson that day.? ALWAYS check the hyd gauge?AND press on the brakes on short final (more later).? A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,?N222JS.? I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.? A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.? I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).? Grove field is only 2200 feet long?for landing.? The gear extended and locked.? The flaps were of course up.? I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency.? I?switched the valve in the floor and waited?to touch down.??The landing was normal, if a little fast, and?as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure.? I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering.? Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.? It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.? A flex line from the back side of the firewall had?failed. The?last failure was only a couple?months ago in a 680?Commander destined for a A&P school.? Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last?gear down ferry.? The airplane had only been flown?once in the last 25 years.? The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned.? The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.? Those old engines ran great!? When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down.? With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of?the flap speed.? As I turned final, I did my?gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure.? The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat.? I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.? It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they?started down first, changing the airplanes trim.?With touchdown only seconds aw ay, I?decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited?for the mains to touch.? I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left.? As the?nose touched?I?squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle.? The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.? It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself.? Hence the swerving on landing.? With the?drag from the windmilling?LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.? I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to?parking using the hand pump.? Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Commander drivers.? See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 06, 2009
Haha thanks....the engine looks good. The airplane has been together for a while but I haven't had time to test fly yet. I'm going to do that this week. I'm sure it'll be in good shape for the fly-in. /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures It had a happy ending, so hey, you did good. How is your new engine?? jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 8:28 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi Jimbob, Believe me, the vision of that spring was in my head after I tried to cycle the gear again. All I could think was, "stupid, stupid, stupid." I KNEW that the gear would lock if I just LEFT THE HANDLE ALONE after putting it in the down position the first time. Of course, I got impatient and jumped at the lever when I saw a bit of pressure come back into the system. Once I hit the gear lever the second time, I'd shot my one chance at having the gear go down via spring/gravity....no chance it'll go back over center, right? Nothing like a $7,000 repair bill to remind you of the one dumb thing you did during the event. There's a good chance that if I had just left the lever where it was, the nosegear would have locked and it would have been an uneventful landing, even without flaps, brakes or steering. I guarantee I'll do it differently next time! /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point. The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure. The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them. These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside. The nose gear is another story. The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live. These need inspected and lubricated every year, more often if the airplane is parked out. To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel. I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!! These are often overlooked by mechanics. Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual. This is done on jacks, with the gear up and locked. Then,& ;nbs p;by bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps up and down. It takes awhile! Next, place the gear handle down. All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto. If any are "sleepy", investigate. There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased. jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). /J _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! ! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)& amp;nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scottmain2003(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 07, 2009
Subject: Re: low suction mystery
I had similar experience with my L-26. I isolated each segment of the plumbing and tested one by one and eventually found the culprit. the hard line from the inside upper left of the right engine nacelle that goes through the bulkhead and connects to another hard line just to the right of the oil cover had chaffed through and had a fairly large hole allowing ambient air to enter there. I had to take the inspection covers off that area on the wing upper panel to repair the hole and then all worked fine. a vacuum cleaner connected to the hose at the pump made enough of a suction noise at the hole to find the problem. Probably been that way for years as the pressure controller was cranked all the way in in an attempt to compensate for the bleed problem. hope that helps scott In a message dated 9/1/2009 11:09:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com writes: Gary, Have you tested the pump alone by connecting a hose directly to the pump with the remainder of the system not in the loop? Moe N680RR 680Fp From: _Gary Moshluk_ (mailto:gmosh(at)charter.net) Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Commander-List: low suction mystery To all Commander aficionados, Having an issue with low suction specifically when running the left engine alone. The right engine system is operating normally without the left engine running producing about 4.2 Hg of suction. The left engine alone will only produce 2.2 to 2.3 Hg max even at higher RPM settings. I have a straight 560 fitted with dual wet suction pumps. The engine driven vac pumps are piped to bulkhead fittings on each firewall into the nacelle. The bulkhead fitting is connected to the regulator (via hose and clamps). The regulator is "T"'d for attaching the low vacuum switch and check valve, thence to the hardline forward to the instrument panel. Ostensibly the dual check valves protect the operating vacuum source from an open leak on the opposite side When I rebuilt the instrument panel I relocated the engine gages, centering them over/above the throttle pedestal to allow for a panel mounted radio stack AND I added an artificial horizon, DG (airspeed and altimeter) to the co-pilot side. Harry Merrit sent me a used vacuum pump and regulator; both of which I installed today. Best I can get off the left side vacuum pump is 2.2 HG of suction. The regulator adjustments so far have had a negligible effect on the suction pressure. I had thought up until today the problem resided with the (engine driven) pump and/or regulator ahead of the check valve in the left nacelle but the pump and regulator still won't get me the required suction off the left side. Anyone out there with a theory as to what I should be looking for? Gary (c.s "Blaster") href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Sep 07, 2009
tf=2C sorry. gmc lost mine in july. From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca Subject: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) Date: Fri=2C 4 Sep 2009 13:33:45 -0700 There is a change all right. C-GISS (680FLP (Mr.RPM)) is no more=2C total hydraulic failure in the starb oard brake line=2C landed by the numbers without flaps=2C brakes or steerin g=2C ended up careening across a ditch which bent the main spar and tore of f the right main landing gear and skidded to a stop on the right side of th e belly. My insurance company will be offering it up for sale "where is=2C as is". Does anyone know of a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) available for sale? Tom Fisher formally C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Friday=2C September 04=2C 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory Hi TCFG members=2C We're working on this year's Membership and Vendor Directory and would appr eciate it if you would let us know of any changes to your personal informat ion or additions/changes to the Vendor listing. Looking forward to the Fly-In. What a special treat to have Hoover attend our awards Banquet. See ya in a couple of weeks. ~jb href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Hi John, pulling that breaker is not in my POH but it makes sense.=0AIs the idea to push it in and leave after TO for the duration or-in-just prio r to landing?=0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0AFrom: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 7:09:40 PM =0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHi all,=0A-=0A I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no h ydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear han dle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I-could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck... .ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down.=0A-=0ASince I had no hydraulic s for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) run way. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Comman der tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nos e onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently colla psed at about-10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a b ell crank, and some rivets.=0A-=0AI guess it's true what they say, "fly t he airplane all the way until it stops".=0A-=0AIncidentally, I probably c ould have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually ha d to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to ro ll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wh eelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully.=0A-=0A/John=0A-=0AP S: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under an y circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear un locked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expens ive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots...=0A-=0A-=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: ow ner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server (at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHI KIDS=0A=0AI thought I might share with you s ome real world experience regarding hyd failures.- Over my 30 years and w ell over-2000 hours of Commander experience,- I have suffered three com plete-hydraulicfailures.- All in FAT nacelled Commanders.- It would b e good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT a nd FAT nacelled airplanes.- The FAT nacelles do not have an electric-hy d aux pump.- They share the same basic system including the reservoir, bu t instead of an electric-aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the sta nd pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.- The FLAT nacelled airplanes ha ve an electric pump.- There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is inten ded to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.- The e ngine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.- The re is a fitting in-the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only-th e aux pump.- The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch.- So, if a leak occurs, the en gine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.- When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dump ing the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer- the airplane.- The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for th e engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in th e floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used t o build pressure.--Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emer gency-fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it.=0AMy fir st failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.- I had completed a no rmal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went- to the floor.- I was slow to react but did finally break t he code and switched the floor-valve and as the end of the runway approac hed, I feverishly pumped the handle.- The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!- I learned an important lesson that day.- ALWA YS check the hyd gauge-AND press on the brakes on short final (more later ).- A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard.=0AFailure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,-N222JS.- I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1 ) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.- A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.- I elected to fly ac ross he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).- Grove field is only 2200 feet long -for landing.- The gear extended and locked.- The flaps were of cours e up.- I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to dec lare an emergency.- I-switched the valve in the floor and waited-to t ouch down.--The landing was normal, if a little fast, and-as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regul ated the braking pressure.- I have found it nearly impossible, in the rea l world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/stee ring.- Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.- It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.- A flex line from the back side of the firewall had-failed.=0AThe-last failure was only a couple-mon ths ago in a 680-Commander destined for a A&P school.- Morris Kernick a nd I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last-gear down f erry.- The airplane had only been flown-once in the last 25 years.- T he hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly co ncerned.- The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.- Those old e ngines ran great!- When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap h andle fully down.- With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of -the flap speed.- As I turned final, I did my-gauge and break check a nd to my surprise, there was NO pressure.- The flaps I had called for nev er extended and the brakes were flat.- I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.- It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they-started down first, changing the airplanes trim.-With touchdown only seconds away, I-decided the best s alvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again wa ited-for the mains to touch.- I had already pulled both throttles to fu ll idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. - As the-nose touched-I-squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. - The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.- It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. - Hence the swerving on landing.- With the-drag from the windmilling -LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.- I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to-parking using t he hand pump.- Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Comm ander drivers.- See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)- ;=0A=0A=0Ahref="http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat ronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr =========================0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
As soon as the first engine is started, pull the breaker and do no push in until the next start.? It is not in the POH but should be.? We have been advocating this for years and I have had two members call me to thank me.? They were able to manage a complete hyd failure.? jb -----Original Message----- From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 7, 2009 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi John, pulling that breaker is not in my POH but it makes sense. Is the idea to push it in and leave after TO for the duration or?in?just prior to landing? ? Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 ? From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 7:09:40 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, ? I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I?could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. ? Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about?10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. ? I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". ? Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. ? /John ? PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ? ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS ? I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.? Over my 30 years and well over?2000 hours of Commander experience,? I have suffered three complete?hydraulic failures.? All in FAT nacelled Commanders.? It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.? The FAT nacelles do not have an electric?hyd aux pump.? They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric?aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.? The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.? There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.? The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.? There is a fitting in?the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only?the aux pump.? The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure swi tch.? So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.? When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer? the airplane.? The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure.??Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency?fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.? I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went? to the floor.? I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor?valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle.? The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!? I learned an important lesson that day.? ALWAYS check the hyd gauge?AND press on the brakes on short final (more later).? A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,?N222JS.? I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.? A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.? I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).? Grove field is only 2200 feet long?for landing.? The gear extended and locked.? The flaps were of course up.? I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency.? I?switched the valve in the floor and waited?to touch down.??The landing was normal, if a little fast, and?as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure.? I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering.? Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.? It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.? A flex line from the back side of the firewall had?failed. The?last failure was only a couple?months ago in a 680?Commander destined for a A&P school.? Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last?gear down ferry.? The airplane had only been flown?once in the last 25 years.? The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned.? The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.? Those old engines ran great!? When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down.? With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of?the flap speed.? As I turned final, I did my?gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure.? The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat.? I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.? It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they?started down first, changing the airplanes trim.?With touchdown only seconds aw ay, I?decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited?for the mains to touch.? I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left.? As the?nose touched?I?squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle.? The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.? It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself.? Hence the swerving on landing.? With the?drag from the windmilling?LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.? I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to?parking using the hand pump.? Thought this might be of value to some of yo! u other Commander drivers.? See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)? ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
By "next start" do you mean the second engine? And if so, does'nt that only provide-protection from full hyd fluid loss for those few seconds? It se ams the leak would occur-in a more stressfull scenario such as take off. =0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________ ______________=0AFrom: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>=0ATo: commande r-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, September 7, 2009 12:25:08 PM=0ASubjec t: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0AAs soon as the first engine is started, pull the breaker and do no push in until the next start.- It is not in the POH but should be.- We have been advocating this for years and I have had two members call me to thank me.- They were able to manage a complete hyd failure.- jb=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: D onnie Rose =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASen t: Mon, Sep 7, 2009 9:52 am=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failur es=0A=0A=0AHi John, pulling that breaker is not in my POH but it makes sens e.=0AIs the idea to push it in and leave after TO for the duration or-in -just prior to landing?=0A=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Vormbaum <john@vormb aum.com>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 6, 20 09 7:09:40 PM=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHi all,=0A-=0AI also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back . I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard ...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in t he system and thought I-could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegea r. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked dow n, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down.=0A-=0ASince I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,0 00 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. Th at big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional contr ol. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently se ttled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about-10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosege ar doors, a bell crank, and some rivets.=0A-=0AI guess it's true what the y say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops".=0A-=0AIncidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enoug h speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully.=0A-=0A/J ohn=0A-=0APS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop st rike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seem s less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots...=0A-=0A-=0A=0A=0A______________________________ __=0AFrom: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commande r-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Co mmander-List: Hydraulic Failures=0A=0A=0AHI KIDS=0A=0AI thought I might sha re with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.- Over my 3 0 years and well over-2000 hours of Commander experience,- I have suffe red three complete-hydraulicfailures.- All in FAT nacelled Commanders. - It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the sys tems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.- The FAT nacelles do not have an electric-hyd aux pump.- They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric-aux pump, they use a valve that is olates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.- The FLAT nacelle d airplanes have an electric pump.- There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emerg ency.- The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the sta ndpipe.- There is a fitting in-the resiviour below the standpipe that f eeds only-the aux pump.- The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch.- So, if a leak occurs, the en gine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.- When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dump ing the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer- the airplane.- The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for th e engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in th e floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used t o build pressure.--Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emer gency-fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it.=0AMy fir st failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.- I had completed a no rmal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went- to the floor.- I was slow to react but did finally break t he code and switched the floor-valve and as the end of the runway approac hed, I feverishly pumped the handle.- The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!- I learned an important lesson that day.- ALWA YS check the hyd gauge-AND press on the brakes on short final (more later ).- A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard.=0AFailure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,-N222JS.- I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1 ) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.- A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.- I elected to fly ac ross he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).- Grove field is only 2200 feet long -for landing.- The gear extended and locked.- The flaps were of cours e up.- I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to dec lare an emergency.- I-switched the valve in the floor and waited-to t ouch down.--The landing was normal, if a little fast, and-as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regul ated the braking pressure.- I have found it nearly impossible, in the rea l world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/stee ring.- Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.- It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.- A flex line from the back side of the firewall had-failed.=0AThe-last failure was only a couple-mon ths ago in a 680-Commander destined for a A&P school.- Morris Kernick a nd I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last-gear down f erry.- The airplane had only been flown-once in the last 25 years.- T he hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly co ncerned.- The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.- Those old e ngines ran great!- When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap h andle fully down.- With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of -the flap speed.- As I turned final, I did my-gauge and break check a nd to my surprise, there was NO pressure.- The flaps I had called for nev er extended and the brakes were flat.- I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.- It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they-started down first, changing the airplanes trim.-With touchdown only seconds away, I-decided the best s alvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again wa ited-for the mains to touch.- I had already pulled both throttles to fu ll idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. - As the-nose touched-I-squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. - The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.- It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. - Hence the swerving on landing.- With the-drag from the windmilling -LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.- I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to-parking using t he hand pump.- Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Co mmander drivers.- See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ;=0A=0A=0Ahref ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://f orums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:/ ====0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 07, 2009
RE: THE NOSE GEAR SPRING INSPECTIONDOOR, IS THIS OUTSIDE THE AIRCRAFT OR INSIDE ABOVE THE RUDDER PEDALS. MINE HAS NEVER BEEN LUBED OR INSPECTED AS FAR AS I KNOW. THANKS,LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com<mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point. The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure. The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them. These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside. The nose gear is another story. The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live. These need inspected and lubricated every year, more often if the airplane is parked out. To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel. I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!! These are often overlooked by mechanics. Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual. This is done on jacks, with the gear up and locked. Then,&nbs p;by bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps up and down. It takes awhile! Next, place the gear handle down. All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto. If any are "sleepy", investigate. There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased. jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). /J ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List m/Navigator?Commander-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 07, 2009
What pushes the gear down is mainly (pun intended) the Nitrogen cylinder on the outboard side of each gear. I was advised that the bungees are a six month item. Tom formally C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: lloyd silverman To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures RE: THE NOSE GEAR SPRING INSPECTIONDOOR, IS THIS OUTSIDE THE AIRCRAFT OR INSIDE ABOVE THE RUDDER PEDALS. MINE HAS NEVER BEEN LUBED OR INSPECTED AS FAR AS I KNOW. THANKS,LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point. The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure. The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them. These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside. The nose gear is another story. The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live. These need inspected and lubricated every year, more often if the airplane is parked out. To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel. I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!! These are often overlooked by mechanics. Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual. This is done on jacks, with the gear up and locked. Then,&nbs p;by bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps up and down. It takes awhile! Next, place the gear handle down. All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto. If any are "sleepy", investigate. There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased. jb -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). /J ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about 10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. /John PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures. Over my 30 years and well over 2000 hours of Commander experience, I have suffered three complete hydraulic failures. All in FAT nacelled Commanders. It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes. The FAT nacelles do not have an electric hyd aux pump. They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump. The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump. There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency. The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe. There is a fitting in the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only the aux pump. The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure switch. So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard. When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer the airplane. The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure. Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B. I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went to the floor. I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle. The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!! I learned an important lesson that day. ALWAYS check the hyd gauge AND press on the brakes on short final (more later). A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E, N222JS. I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual. A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure. I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD). Grove field is only 2200 feet long for landing. The gear extended and locked. The flaps were of course up. I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency. I switched the valve in the floor and waited to touch down. The landing was normal, if a little fast, and as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure. I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering. Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure. It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble. A flex line from the back side of the firewall had failed. The last failure was only a couple months ago in a 680 Commander destined for a A&P school. Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last gear down ferry. The airplane had only been flown once in the last 25 years. The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned. The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully. Those old engines ran great! When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down. With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of the flap speed. As I turned final, I did my gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure. The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat. I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump. It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they started down first, changing the airplanes trim. With touchdown only seconds away, I decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited for the mains to touch. I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left. As the nose touched I squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle. The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare. It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself. Hence the swerving on landing. With the drag from the windmilling LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw. I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to parking using the hand pump. Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Commander drivers. See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Failures
Date: Sep 07, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI TOM The nitrogen does assist the main gear extension on the twisty gear Commanders, not so on the fat nacelle airplanes.? The nose gear is on its own on all models.? The bungees and the spring finsh what gravity and nitrogen started and ensure the the gear remains locked after?touchdown and at anytime there in no hyd pressure present.? There is no official?TBO on the bungee's.? They should be replaced on condition but, for sure Tom, sooner is better than later!! ? The access panel to inspect the nose spring is located on the?fuselage skin RH (Co-pilot) side?low? It is just ahead of the forward bulkhead that separates the nose section from the cabin, just ahead of the rudder pedals.? ? The circuit breaker should be pushed in only long enough to bring up the hyd pressure so you have brakes to start the engines, then be?pulled and should remain pulled until the next engine start.? I kinda answerd the last three posts at once, hope nobody minds.? jb? -----Original Message----- From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> Sent: Mon, Sep 7, 2009 2:48 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures What pushes the gear down is mainly (pun intended) the Nitrogen cylinder on the outboard side of each gear. I was advised that the bungees are a six month item. Tom formally C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: lloyd silverman Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures RE: THE NOSE GEAR SPRING INSPECTIONDOOR, IS THIS OUTSIDE THE AIRCRAFT OR INSIDE ABOVE THE RUDDER PEDALS. MINE HAS NEVER BEEN LUBED OR INSPECTED AS FAR AS I KNOW. THANKS,LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Great story John.. That brings up another great point.? The landing gear should extend without hyd pressure.? The main gear uses bungee chords to assist them.? These are easy to check visually and should be replaced every couple years if the airplane is hangared, every year if it sits outside.??The nose gear is another story.? The nose gear is extended by spring located in the RH inspection door, just ahead of where the rudder pedals live.? These need?inspected and lubricated every year,?more often?if the airplane is parked out.? To inspect them, one must get on your knees. get a strong light and look forward and up through the aforementioned inspection panel.? I have seen one that had corroded, stuck and was completely broken in half!!? These are often overlooked by mechanics.? Also, your mechanic should do an emergency extension each annual.? This is done?on jacks, with the gear up and locked.? Then,&nbs p;by?bleeding the hyd pressure to zero by running the flaps?up and down.? It takes awhile !? Next, place the gear handle down.? All the gear should go down and lock with some gusto.? If any are "sleepy", investigate.? There are several grease fittings so make certain they are all properly greased.? jb????? -----Original Message----- From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 6:30 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Oh I misread that then....I thought you had good reason and I somehow missed it :-). ? /J From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing ? John, Yup, I agree. As I said, it wasn't that smart. Nico ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures Hi all, ? I also had a complete hyd. failure in my 500B a few years back. I cracked a hard line in the wing root, and had forgotten to pull the aux pump breaker on takeoff (lesson learned) so it pumped everything overboard...I had no hydraulic pressure at all. To compound the error, after putting the gear handle down & getting the mains locked, I got a few PSI back in the system and thought I?could use it to cycle the gear & lock the nosegear. No luck....ended up blowing my chance to get all three wheels locked down, and had to land knowing the nose wasn't locked down. ? Since I had no hydraulics for steering, flaps or brakes, I chose Stockton's long (10,000 foot?) runway. I landed on the mains, pulled the power back, and coasted awhile down the runway with the nosegear held off, under minimal power. That big Commander tail/rudder was more than sufficient for directional control. I finally lost full elevator authority at about 20 knots, and gently settled the nose onto the pavement. I rolled about 8 feet before the nosegear gently collapsed at about?10 knots. The only damage was a pair of nosegear doors, a bell crank, and some rivets. ? I guess it's true what they say, "fly the airplane all the way until it stops". ? Incidentally, I probably could have done the same landing in less than half the length. I actually had to roll some throttle in to keep the nose up & give me enough speed to roll through the last half of the runway...so I ended up doing a 9000-foot wheelie. The airplane really is balanced beautifully. ? /John ? PS: Nico, I have to ask, what's with the "feather the props on short final" thing? In a Commander, you'd be hard pressed to have a prop strike under any circumstances, even a straight belly landing. If you had one main gear unlocked, dumping it on a prop & needing a new engine still seems less expensive & life-threatening than sawing the airplane off the runway sideways at 75 knots... ? ? From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Commander-List: Hydraulic Failures HI KIDS ? I thought I might share with you some real world experience regarding hyd failures.? Over my 30 years and well over?2000 hours of Commander experience,? I have suffered three complete?hydraulic failures.? All in FAT nacelled Commanders.? It would be good to spend a moment to discuss the difference in the systems of FLAT and FAT nacelled airplanes.? The FAT nacelles do not have an electric?hyd aux pump.? They share the same basic system including the reservoir, but instead of an electric?aux pump, they use a valve that isolates the stand pipe in the reservoir and a hand pump.? The FLAT nacelled airplanes have an electric pump.? There is a standpipe in the reservoir that is intended to isolate a small amount of fluid to be used in an emergency.? The engine driven pumps only have access to the fluid from the standpipe.? There is a fitting in?the resiviour below the standpipe that feeds only?the aux pump.? The trouble with that system is the aux pump is operated by a pressure swi tch.? So, if a leak occurs, the engine pump(s) will eventually pump all the fluid overboard.? When the last of the fluid is gone, the pressure will drop, turning on the aux pump dumping the last of the fluid that was intended to be used to stop and steer? the airplane.? The FAT nacelled airplanes have the same standpipe for the engine driven pumps, but the emergency system requires that a valve in the floor of the cabin be selected to "Brakes only" and a hand pump is used to build pressure.??Unlike the electric system, there is no way the emergency?fluid can be pumped overboard without he pilot knowing it. My first failure at least 25 years ago in a 560A, N2649B.? I had completed a normal landing at Caldwell Idaho (EUL) and as I started to brake, the pedals simply went? to the floor.? I was slow to react but did finally break the code and switched the floor?valve and as the end of the runway approached, I feverishly pumped the handle.? The airplane stopped with only the nose wheel off the end!!? I learned an important lesson that day.? ALWAYS check the hyd gauge?AND press on the brakes on short final (more later).? A hard line in the belly of the airplane had failed, pumping all the fluid overboard. Failure number two was about ten years ago in my current Commander 680E,?N222JS.? I had entered the pattern at Grove field (1W1) when I noticed the gear was not extending as usual.? A quick glance at the pressure gauge confirmed a complete hyd failure.? I elected to fly across he river to Troutdale Or (TLD).? Grove field is only 2200 feet long?for landing.? The gear extended and locked.? The flaps were of course up.? I told the tower of my predicament but declined their offer to declare an emergency.? I?switched the valve in the floor and waited?to touch down.??The landing was normal, if a little fast, and?as the nose wheel touched I depressed the rudder pedals and pumped the handle to regulated the braking pressure.? I have found it nearly impossible, in the real world, to build sufficient pressure in advance to operate the brakes/steering.? Better to depress the brakes and build the ne eded pressure.? It worked very well and I was able to taxi to parking with no trouble.? A flex line from the back side of the firewall had?failed. The?last failure was only a couple?months ago in a 680?Commander destined for a A&P school.? Morris Kernick and I had spent considerable time preparing N87YA for its last?gear down ferry.? The airplane had only been flown?once in the last 25 years.? The hyd system would only indicate about 700psi, but since it was on a ferry permit and the gear would remain down and very locked, I was not overly concerned.? The 2.5 hour flight was completely uneventfully.? Those old engines ran great!? When I entered the patter to land, I placed the flap handle fully down.? With the gear extended. the airplane never flew out of?the flap speed.? As I turned final, I did my?gauge and break check and to my surprise, there was NO pressure.? The flaps I had called for never extended and the brakes were flat.? I was committed to the landing and tried the hand pump.? It worked, but since the flaps had been selected, they?started down first, changing the airplanes trim.?With touchdown only seconds aw ay, I?decided the best salvation was to abandon the flaps and I selected "brakes only" and again waited?for the mains to touch.? I had already pulled both throttles to full idle and as I flared the airplane began to swerve sharply to the left.? As the?nose touched?I?squeezed the brakes and pumped the hanle.? The airplane used most of the runway width, but stayed on the blacktop and rolled to a stop on the centerline with plenty of room to spare.? It was only then I noticed that the RH engine had quite and feathered itself.? Hence the swerving on landing.? With the?drag from the windmilling?LH propeller and the RH feathered, there was significant adverse yaw.? I was able to restart the RH engine and again, taxied to?parking using the hand pump.? Thought this might be of value to some of yo! ! u other Commander drivers.? See ya at the fly-in (I hope!!)&nb sp; ; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Moshluk" <gmosh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: low suction mystery
Date: Sep 08, 2009
It appears the replacement pump I received was weak as well. I'm going to try another pump and report the results. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scottmain2003(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: low suction mystery I had similar experience with my L-26. I isolated each segment of the plumbing and tested one by one and eventually found the culprit. the hard line from the inside upper left of the right engine nacelle that goes through the bulkhead and connects to another hard line just to the right of the oil cover had chaffed through and had a fairly large hole allowing ambient air to enter there. I had to take the inspection covers off that area on the wing upper panel to repair the hole and then all worked fine. a vacuum cleaner connected to the hose at the pump made enough of a suction noise at the hole to find the problem. Probably been that way for years as the pressure controller was cranked all the way in in an attempt to compensate for the bleed problem. hope that helps scott In a message dated 9/1/2009 11:09:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com writes: Gary, Have you tested the pump alone by connecting a hose directly to the pump with the remainder of the system not in the loop? Moe N680RR 680Fp From: Gary Moshluk Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:26 PM To: Commander Chat Subject: Commander-List: low suction mystery To all Commander aficionados, Having an issue with low suction specifically when running the left engine alone. The right engine system is operating normally without the left engine running producing about 4.2 Hg of suction. The left engine alone will only produce 2.2 to 2.3 Hg max even at higher RPM settings. I have a straight 560 fitted with dual wet suction pumps. The engine driven vac pumps are piped to bulkhead fittings on each firewall into the nacelle. The bulkhead fitting is connected to the regulator (via hose and clamps). The regulator is "T"'d for attaching the low vacuum switch and check valve, thence to the hardline forward to the instrument panel. Ostensibly the dual check valves protect the operating vacuum source from an open leak on the opposite side When I rebuilt the instrument panel I relocated the engine gages, centering them over/above the throttle pedestal to allow for a panel mounted radio stack AND I added an artificial horizon, DG (airspeed and altimeter) to the co-pilot side. Harry Merrit sent me a used vacuum pump and regulator; both of which I installed today. Best I can get off the left side vacuum pump is 2.2 HG of suction. The regulator adjustments so far have had a negligible effect on the suction pressure. I had thought up until today the problem resided with the (engine driven) pump and/or regulator ahead of the check valve in the left nacelle but the pump and regulator still won't get me the required suction off the left side. Anyone out there with a theory as to what I should be looking for? Gary (c.s "Blaster") href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: Philip Guziec <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Maybe you could buy this one: http://www.mrrpm.com/ *grin* Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Sep 08, 2009
That would be interesting. Tom formally C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Guziec" <philipguziec(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > Maybe you could buy this one: > > http://www.mrrpm.com/ > > *grin* > > Phil > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 500A Colemill
Posted on barnstormer.com =C2- AVAILABLE SOON =A2 Low Time, NDH 3600+Hr. NDH Airframe, Hartzell 3 Bl ade, Dynamically Balanced "0" TSO Props. Engines TSO 1300+ Recent New 7 Pax Tan Leather Interior w/Super Soundproofing installed. Recent Complete Stri p/Treat/Paint, JPI EDM760, Winglets with Recognition Lights and Strobes. Sh rike Nose, 300 HP, Colemill Conversion IO520E Engines, New Exhaust, A1 Spec trometric Oil Analysis, Stormscope WX-10, Century IIB Autopilot w/Radio Cou pler. KX155 Nav/Com w/Glidescope and KX209 Nav. Indicator. KT76A Transponde r. Wonderful aircraft for Upgrade! Sold with New Annual. Worth Waiting For! ! Price Firm =A2 Contact Jerry Schofield - TCH&S , Owner - located Ca stle Rock, CO USA =A2 Telephone: 1 303 908 0396 . 1 303 663 3963 . 1 902 245 0622 =A2 Fax: 1 303 663 3973 =A2 Posted =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 500A Colemill
Date: Sep 08, 2009
Hi Guys, This has got to be N520JS, s/n 1130-60, converted to a Colemill "Super 300" in October 1966. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Farmer To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:10 PM Subject: Commander-List: 500A Colemill Posted on barnstormer.com AVAILABLE SOON =A2 Low Time, NDH 3600+Hr. NDH Airframe, Hartzell 3 Blade, Dynamically Balanced "0" TSO Props. Engines TSO 1300+ Recent New 7 Pax Tan Leather Interior w/Super Soundproofing installed. Recent Complete Strip/Treat/Paint, JPI EDM760, Winglets with Recognition Lights and Strobes. Shrike Nose, 300 HP, Colemill Conversion IO520E Engines, New Exhaust, A1 Spectrometric Oil Analysis, Stormscope WX-10, Century IIB Autopilot w/Radio Coupler. KX155 Nav/Com w/Glidescope and KX209 Nav. Indicator. KT76A Transponder. Wonderful aircraft for Upgrade! Sold with New Annual. Worth Waiting For!! Price Firm =A2 Contact Jerry Schofield - TCH&S , Owner - located Castle Rock, CO USA =A2 Telephone: 1 303 908 0396 . 1 303 663 3963 . 1 902 245 0622 =A2 Fax: 1 303 663 3973 =A2 Posted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fly-In
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Hi Guys, Like JimBob, my Navman GPS doesn't recognise "Hospitality Way" either. I think I'm right, but the Hampton Inn seems to be right at the end of Art Court (same Zip Code, 89706) and the Navman located this OK. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk ; commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:00 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fly-In Hi Barry, et al: Good questions and ones that others on the chatlist may want to know, so we're putting the info out for all to see. 1. There ARE a couple of seats left in box seating and yes, the price is $325 for the entire event. 2. Commanders will be parking at Sterling Air. There is some construction going on at the airport which may require some back taxiing. I will be there all day Wednesday with a hand held radio to direct the Commanders. The physical address for Sterling Air is 2640 College Parkway, Carson City, Nevada. There IS a small tie down fee so be sure to pay before departing. There is both full and self-service fuel at the airport with full service being arranged through El Aero. We are in the process of negotiating with El Aero to give the same price for full service fuel truck as the self serve and will keep you apprised. 3. For thos of you renting cars at the Carson City Airport they can be picked up at El Aero which is right next to the Terminal Bldg. Be sure to let Enterprise know you want to pick up your car at El Aero's southside location as they have a couple of locations on the airport. 4. Wednesday night's welcome dinner and Thursday's seminars will be held in the terminal bldg right next door to Sterling Air and the physical address is 2600 E College Parkway. 5. The address for Hampton Inn is 10 Hospitality Way (although our GPS didn't recognize this address). However it is right off of 395 so pretty easy to find. If anyone has additional questions, don't hesitate to ask. Looking forward to seeing everyone again and meeting new friends. ~Jim & Sue Metzger -----Original Message----- From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> To: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:53 am Subject: Fly-In Hi JimBob, I've got a few questions about the Fly-In. 1. Are any seats still available in "the box" and am I right in thinking they're $325? 2. Where will the Commanders be parking at Carson City? 3. Can you let me know the name of the organisation whose facility they'll be parked at? Their address will be useful to key into my SatNav. Very Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly-In
Date: Sep 11, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Glad it just isn't our GPS.? It is across the street from the Holiday Inn and if I remember correctly our GPS did show that under the hotel search feature.? Here's the directions from Reno (from the Hotel's literature): Take interstate 80 east.? merge onto US Highway 395 South.? US Highway 395 becomes Carson St.? Turn left on Monk Court to enter parking. (First left as you enter Carson City.) See ya next week.? -----Original Message----- From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:08 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Fly-In Hi Guys, ? Like JimBob, my Navman GPS doesn't recognise "Hospitality Way" either. I think I'm right, but the Hampton Inn seems to be right at the end?of Art Court (same Zip Code, 89706) and the Navman located this OK. ? Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:00 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Fly-In Hi Barry, et al: ? Good questions and ones that others on the chatlist may want to know, so we're putting the info out for all to see. ? 1.? There ARE a couple of seats left in box seating and yes, the price is $325 for the entire event. ? 2.? Commanders will be parking at Sterling Air.? There is some construction going on at the airport which may require some back taxiing.? I will be there all day Wednesday with a hand held radio to direct the Commanders.? The physical address for Sterling Air is 2640 College Parkway, Carson City, Nevada.? There IS a small tie down fee so be sure to pay before departing.? There is both full?and self-service fuel at the airport with full service being arranged through El Aero.? We are in the process of negotiating with?El Aero to give the same price for full service fuel truck as the self serve and will keep you apprised.? ? ? 3.? For thos of you renting cars at the Carson City Airport they can be picked up at El Aero which is right next to the Terminal Bldg.? Be sure to let Enterprise know you want to pick up your car at El Aero's southside location as they have a couple of locations on the airport.? ? 4.? Wednesday night's welcome dinner and Thursday's seminars will be held in the terminal bldg right next door to Sterling Air and the physical address is 2600 E College Parkway.? ? 5.? The address for Hampton Inn is 10 Hospitality Way (although our GPS didn't recognize this address).? However it is right off of 395 so pretty easy to find.? If anyone has additional questions, don't hesitate to ask.? Looking forward to seeing everyone again and meeting new friends.? ? ~Jim & Sue Metzger ? ? -----Original Message----- From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:53 am Subject: Fly-In Hi JimBob, ? I've got a few questions about the Fly-In. ? 1. Are any seats still available in "the box" and am I right in thinking they're $325? ? 2. Where will the Commanders be parking at Carson City? ? 3. Can you let me know the name of the organisation whose facility they'll be parked at? Their address?will be useful to key into my SatNav. ? Very Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Fly In Cancelation
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Folks, I had to cancel my reservation at the Hilton and won't be able to make it to the Fly in. My wife was taken ill and is currently in the hospital. She was in the ICU for five days and would not be discharged for some time, it seems. I held off canceling for as long as I could hoping that she might recover quickly enough for us to still make the trip but she won't be out of the hospital. The Hampton Inn's number is 775-885-8800 and the room is available as of now. I am truly sorry for not being able to attend this fly in; I was looking forward meeting all of you. Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly In Cancelation
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Nico, Sorry you won't be able to attend, but we certainly understand.? We'll miss ya!!!! Wishing your wife a speedy recovery. ~jb -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 7:52 am Subject: Commander-List: Fly In Cancelation Folks, ? I had to cancel my reservation at the Hilton and won't be able to make it to the Fly in. My wife was taken ill and is currently in the hospital. She was in the ICU for five days and would not be discharged for some time, it seems. I held off canceling for as long as I could hoping that she might recover quickly enough for us to still make the trip but she won't be out of the hospital. ? The Hampton Inn's number is?775-885-8800 and the room is available as of now. ? I am truly sorry for not being able to attend this fly in; I was looking forward meeting all of you. ? Nico ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 15, 2009
What a powerful speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 500A for sale
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Hello all=2C I have accumulated 9 airplanes over the years and would love to have this o ne=2C but a divorce would be more expensive than the plane. Therefore I'm t ellings you guys where it is. It is a 1961 500a with a Colemill conversion =2C looks good. It was being annualad when the state of Maryland decided to let the State police dept. handle all the aviation related work.They are s elling all the aircraft and related equipment. I bought the aircraft jacks and tailweight for this airplane. They have some new fuel bladders that hav e to be installed by the winning bidder. The inspection has to be done by t he new owner. The engines are almost new IO520 300 HP With less than 200 hr s reported. They also have a Jetranger for sale on another site. I sent thi s yesterday and it never showed up on my computer so I'm sending it again. Google govdeals.com and click on aircraft and parts. Hope someone can use it=2C Roland Gilliam AC500 6291B 5NC3 on Airnav=2C Carthage N.C. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 16, 2009
I'v been trying for 2 days to post a message about a 500 A for sale. Has an yone received it?? Has anyone else had any problems?? IsCommander-list@matr onics.com correct?? Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. Date: Tue=2C 15 Sep 2009 01:36:17 -0700 What a powerful speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Your first one came in a 4:58 and the second at 5:21AM. Tylor Hall On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:19 AM, 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam wrote: > I'v been trying for 2 days to post a message about a 500 A for sale. > Has anyone received it?? Has anyone else had any problems?? > IsCommander-list(at)matronics.com correct?? > > Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B > > From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > To: artandcarla(at)sbcglobal.net > Subject: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:36:17 -0700 > > What a powerful speech. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg > > > st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by get='_new'>Get it now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam" <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Thanks Tyler =2CI guess the one from yesterday is lost forever!! Thanks=2C Roland From: tylorhall(at)mac.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 08:41:05 -0600 Your first one came in a 4:58 and the second at 5:21AM. Tylor Hall On Sep 16=2C 2009=2C at 5:19 AM=2C 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam wrote: I'v been trying for 2 days to post a message about a 500 A for sale. Has an yone received it?? Has anyone else had any problems??IsCommander-list@matro nics.com correct?? Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. Date: Tue=2C 15 Sep 2009 01:36:17 -0700 What a powerful speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by get='_new'>Get it now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 16, 2009
It went into the bit and bite bucket. Most of the guys are at the Reno Air Races now. Tylor On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:59 AM, 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam wrote: > Thanks Tyler ,I guess the one from yesterday is lost forever!! > > Thanks, > > Roland > > From: tylorhall(at)mac.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:41:05 -0600 > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > > Your first one came in a 4:58 and the second at 5:21AM. > Tylor Hall > > On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:19 AM, 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam wrote: > > I'v been trying for 2 days to post a message about a 500 A for sale. > Has anyone received it?? Has anyone else had any problems?? > IsCommander-list(at)matronics.com correct?? > > Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B > > From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com > To: artandcarla(at)sbcglobal.net > Subject: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:36:17 -0700 > > What a powerful speech. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg > > > st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by get='_new'>Get it now. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security barget='_new'>Get it now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick Martin" <nick(at)container.com>
Subject: What a powerful speech.
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Nico thanks for the Glen Beck you tube . really good From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. It went into the bit and bite bucket. Most of the guys are at the Reno Air Races now. Tylor On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:59 AM, 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam wrote: Thanks Tyler ,I guess the one from yesterday is lost forever!! Thanks, Roland _____ From: tylorhall(at)mac.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:41:05 -0600 Your first one came in a 4:58 and the second at 5:21AM. Tylor Hall On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:19 AM, 8eastbaystreet.com <http://8eastbaystreet.com/> Gilliam wrote: I'v been trying for 2 days to post a message about a 500 A for sale. Has anyone received it?? Has anyone else had any problems??IsCommander-list(at)matronics.com correct?? Roland Gilliam AC 500 6291B _____ From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com Subject: Commander-List: What a powerful speech. Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:36:17 -0700 What a powerful speech. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9sTgFPQfg st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com <http://ronics.com/> ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by get='_new'>Get it now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution _____ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security barget='_new'>Get it now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11:21:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 500A for sale
I have a 500B for sale as well.=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: 8eastbaystreet.com Gil liam =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wedne sday, September 16, 2009 5:53:25 AM=0ASubject: Commander-List: 500A for sal e=0A=0AHello all,=0A-=0AI have accumulated 9 airplanes over the years and would love to have this one, but a divorce would be more expensive than th e plane. Therefore I'm tellings you guys where it is. It is a 1961 500a wit h a Colemill conversion, looks good. It was being annualad when the state o f Maryland decided to let the State police dept. handle all the aviation re lated work.They are selling all the aircraft and related equipment. I bough t the aircraft jacks and tailweight for this airplane. They have some new f uel bladders that have to be installed by the winning bidder. The inspectio n has to be done by the new owner. The engines are almost new IO520 300 HP With less than 200 hrs reported. They also have a Jetranger for sale on ano ther site. I sent this yesterday and it never showed up on my computer so I 'm sending it again.=0A-=0AGoogle govdeals.com and click on aircraft and parts.=0A-=0AHope someone can use it,=0A-=0A-=0ARoland Gilliam- AC5 00 6291B---- 5NC3 on Airnav, Carthage N.C.=0A-=0A-=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0AYour E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Liv =========================0A ======0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 500A for sale
Date: Sep 16, 2009
I have a 500S for sale also, Don Falik 517 881-8959 -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donnie Rose Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:01 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 500A for sale I have a 500B for sale as well. Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: 8eastbaystreet.com Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:53:25 AM Subject: Commander-List: 500A for sale Hello all, I have accumulated 9 airplanes over the years and would love to have this one, but a divorce would be more expensive than the plane. Therefore I'm tellings you guys where it is. It is a 1961 500a with a Colemill conversion, looks good. It was being annualad when the state of Maryland decided to let the State police dept. handle all the aviation related work.They are selling all the aircraft and related equipment. I bought the aircraft jacks and tailweight for this airplane. They have some new fuel bladders that have to be installed by the winning bidder. The inspection has to be done by the new owner. The engines are almost new IO520 300 HP With less than 200 hrs reported. They also have a Jetranger for sale on another site. I sent this yesterday and it never showed up on my computer so I'm sending it again. Google govdeals.com and click on aircraft and parts. Hope someone can use it, Roland Gilliam AC500 6291B 5NC3 on Airnav, Carthage N.C. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Horget='_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fly In
Hi to all our friends at the TCFG Race's of Reno.- Teresa and I would hav e loved to attend this year but our work with ACORN would not allow it. - Have a great time Dan and Teresa=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fly In
Date: Sep 17, 2009
You all will be missed. Moe From: Dan Farmer Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fly In Hi to all our friends at the TCFG Race's of Reno. Teresa and I would have loved to attend this year but our work with ACORN would not allow it. Have a great time Dan and Teresa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 17, 2009
What an observation post... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 19, 2009
Folks, I'm pleased to see James May is using a proper Australian built vehicle as the chase car. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular What an observation post... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: STC on brakes
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Has anyone tried to set up a redundent braking system for Commanders with Cleveland brakes? It seems to me an relatively easy thing to do, two calipers per wheel could be split into left and right engine sources. Tom formally C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 18, 2009
A Pontiac GTO with the steering wheel on the wrong side? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Hamilton To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:15 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular Folks, I'm pleased to see James May is using a proper Australian built vehicle as the chase car. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 4:40 PM To: 'nico' Subject: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular What an observation post... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 20, 2009
I believe it was an Australian clip. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular A Pontiac GTO with the steering wheel on the wrong side? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Hamilton <mailto:wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:15 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular Folks, I'm pleased to see James May is using a proper Australian built vehicle as the chase car. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Commander-List: Absolutely spectacular What an observation post... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Cruel punishment
Date: Sep 20, 2009
A man was sent to Hell for his sins. As he was being taken to the place of eternal torment, he saw a democrat making passionate love to a beautiful woman. "What a rip off," the man muttered. "I have to roast for all eternity and that liberal gets to spend it with a beautiful woman." Jabbing the man with his pitchfork, the escorting demon snarled, "Who are you to question that woman's punishment?" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Writing wasn't on my radar screen these last two weeks as my wife was taken ill (ICU and all the drama that goes with that) and like a returning tide the inspiration to write slowly ebbed back. I also missed a very exciting Commander Flyin in Carson City, Nevada, the Reno air races, and an opportunity to meet with Bob Hoover on Thursday evening. But, I had duties that took priority. My latest post on separation of Church and State is on this link. Quite fascinating stuff, I found. Thanks Nico <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/09/church-and-state-part-4.html> TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "STW" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Re: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4
Date: Sep 21, 2009
That was a fairly brilliant piece of writing there Nico. As were the previous three parts. Carefully reasoned and plainly spoken. You have a refreshingly concise and clear writing style. (Though you've got some way still to go to back up Chapter's Four's tentative assertion about which side the AU is on!) Knowledge is good. You go Nico. Hope your Mrs. is on the mend. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'nico' Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4 Writing wasn't on my radar screen these last two weeks as my wife was taken ill (ICU and all the drama that goes with that) and like a returning tide the inspiration to write slowly ebbed back. I also missed a very exciting Commander Flyin in Carson City, Nevada, the Reno air races, and an opportunity to meet with Bob Hoover on Thursday evening. But, I had duties that took priority. My latest post on separation of Church and State is on this link. Quite fascinating stuff, I found. Thanks Nico TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Thanks, Steve. I am cautious not to make assertions without them having led the way. I caused quite a firestorm over at AU. It's still raging. AU is not my goal, it's the perception of wrongdoing of a particular part of the population solely because of their beliefs that I am pursuing. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of STW Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:33 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4 That was a fairly brilliant piece of writing there Nico. As were the previous three parts. Carefully reasoned and plainly spoken. You have a refreshingly concise and clear writing style. (Though you've got some way still to go to back up Chapter's Four's tentative assertion about which side the AU is on!) Knowledge is good. You go Nico. Hope your Mrs. is on the mend. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: nico <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> css Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:28 AM Subject: Commander-List: [TruthByRushDelivery] Church and State Part 4 Writing wasn't on my radar screen these last two weeks as my wife was taken ill (ICU and all the drama that goes with that) and like a returning tide the inspiration to write slowly ebbed back. I also missed a very exciting Commander Flyin in Carson City, Nevada, the Reno air races, and an opportunity to meet with Bob Hoover on Thursday evening. But, I had duties that took priority. My latest post on separation of Church and State is on this link. Quite fascinating stuff, I found. Thanks Nico <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/09/church-and-state-part-4.html> TruthByRushDelivery href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Subject: Absolutely spectacular
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! On Sep 18, 2009, at 2:39 AM, nico css wrote: > What an observation post... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2009
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Carson City
Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 22, 2009
Fellow Commander Folks, This really was a super Commander get together! If anyone is interested the 1988 Oldsmobile that Buddy and I purchased was sold for $ 250.00. Best regards, Moe Mills N680RR Past Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award From: craig kennedy Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 22, 2009
Craig; I have the same problem with my 560E, if I let it sit for awhile, the right wing tank drains some fuel into the main. I just don't fill the wing tanks until I am ready to go fly and then use them first down to about 15 gals each which is my emergency fuel. I too would be interested in why, I have figured its just an O ring someplace. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: craig kennedy To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:05 PM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/22/09 17:54:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 23, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Thanks for the kind words!!!!? That is what is happening.? Both the main and aux fuel valves are leaking allowing fuel to pass between the tanks.? They will need to be re "O" ringed.? The "O" rings are special,?of course, so call Morris for the parts.? jb -----Original Message----- From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 2:05 pm Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City.? The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip.? Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess.? Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts!? Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special.? Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem.? After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight.? The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main.? The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed".?? So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear.? Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Separation of Church and State Part
5
Date: Sep 24, 2009
Folks, Another day in the life of an (ancient) IT-guy. Still grouchy about missing the Flyin. If anyone has pictures or video, I'd like to post them on the website. My servers can now do video streaming, ala Youtube. So, we can get the stuff up there. Here is my latest post on the separation of church and state (part 5) TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/09/separation-of-church-and-state-part -5.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carson City
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
From: "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com>
Moe, Need more cow bell! Was this a used car dealer - on the way to the airport - as planned? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Carson City Fellow Commander Folks, This really was a super Commander get together! If anyone is interested the 1988 Oldsmobile that Buddy and I purchased was sold for $ 250.00. Best regards, Moe Mills N680RR Past Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award From: craig kennedy <mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Subject: Re: Carson City
Hey Peter, Which Turbo Prop is the Red/White and Gold one? Do you have something with the tail number or do you know who the owner is? Photo #57 Bert In a message dated 9/25/2009 1:14:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: "Peter Bichier" Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carson City
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Hey Bert, the Turbo Prop is John Kamp's 690A N52PY serial # 11196with DASH10 Renaissance conversion on 5-9-2000. John is on photo #150 (in the middle) and to his left is Morris Kernick, always teaching us technicalities on the Commanders, gave a great talk on engine mounts and their maintenance. have a good one! and remember, you can download any pictures and if you want any more, let me know. p. -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265004#265004 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Subject: Re: Carson City
Thanks Peter In a message dated 9/25/2009 3:35:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: "Peter Bichier" Hey Bert, the Turbo Prop is John Kamp's 690A N52PY serial # 11196with DASH10 Renaissance conversion on 5-9-2000. John is on photo #150 (in the middle) and to his left is Morris Kernick, always teaching us technicalities on the Commanders, gave a great talk on engine mounts and their maintenance. have a good one! and remember, you can download any pictures and if you want any more, let me know. p. -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265004#265004 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Very nice pictures, Peter. Thanks. I could make out some name tags to put faces to the names. Overall, a great presentation of the week. The pictures of Bob Hoover were of particular value to me as I met Mr. Hoover back in the '70s when he performed in South Africa at the Lanseria airport. He autographed my program, too, which since was lost in the move to the U.S. in '93. It would have been particularly nice to meet with him again after all these years. My wife spent six days the ICU and after another week in the regular ward, she was released from the hospital this week. She still needs 24x7 care and oxygen and daily outpatient visits to the hospital for continued treatment. It was certainly not a time for me to be away. It just goes to show how quickly things can change. Thanks for asking. Well, there's always next year but there's not much hope of meeting with Bob Hoover any time soon. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Peter, I'd like to look at all of them. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Hey Bert, the Turbo Prop is John Kamp's 690A N52PY serial # 11196with DASH10 Renaissance conversion on 5-9-2000. John is on photo #150 (in the middle) and to his left is Morris Kernick, always teaching us technicalities on the Commanders, gave a great talk on engine mounts and their maintenance. have a good one! and remember, you can download any pictures and if you want any more, let me know. p. -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265004#265004 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Nico, Our thoughts are with you & your wife. I hope she has a speedy recovery! We missed you this year. I'm still hoping you make it to a fly-in so that I can put a face with the name. Cheers, /John -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Very nice pictures, Peter. Thanks. I could make out some name tags to put faces to the names. Overall, a great presentation of the week. The pictures of Bob Hoover were of particular value to me as I met Mr. Hoover back in the '70s when he performed in South Africa at the Lanseria airport. He autographed my program, too, which since was lost in the move to the U.S. in '93. It would have been particularly nice to meet with him again after all these years. My wife spent six days the ICU and after another week in the regular ward, she was released from the hospital this week. She still needs 24x7 care and oxygen and daily outpatient visits to the hospital for continued treatment. It was certainly not a time for me to be away. It just goes to show how quickly things can change. Thanks for asking. Well, there's always next year but there's not much hope of meeting with Bob Hoover any time soon. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Thanks, John. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Nico, Our thoughts are with you & your wife. I hope she has a speedy recovery! We missed you this year. I'm still hoping you make it to a fly-in so that I can put a face with the name. Cheers, /John -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Very nice pictures, Peter. Thanks. I could make out some name tags to put faces to the names. Overall, a great presentation of the week. The pictures of Bob Hoover were of particular value to me as I met Mr. Hoover back in the '70s when he performed in South Africa at the Lanseria airport. He autographed my program, too, which since was lost in the move to the U.S. in '93. It would have been particularly nice to meet with him again after all these years. My wife spent six days the ICU and after another week in the regular ward, she was released from the hospital this week. She still needs 24x7 care and oxygen and daily outpatient visits to the hospital for continued treatment. It was certainly not a time for me to be away. It just goes to show how quickly things can change. Thanks for asking. Well, there's always next year but there's not much hope of meeting with Bob Hoover any time soon. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Nico, Sorry you were unable to attend, but definitely your wife's health is priority #1.? Wishing her a very speedy recovery.? ~Jim & Sue -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 2:32 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Carson City Very nice pictures, Peter. Thanks. I could make out some name tags to put faces to the names. Overall, a great presentation of the week. The pictures of Bob Hoover were of particular value to me as I met Mr. Hoover back in the '70s when he performed in South Africa at the Lanseria airport. He autographed my program, too, which since was lost in the move to the U.S. in '93. It would have been particularly nice to meet with him again after all these years. My wife spent six days the ICU and after another week in the regular ward, she was released from the hospital this week. She still needs 24x7 care and oxygen and daily outpatient visits to the hospital for continued treatment. It was certainly not a time for me to be away. It just goes to show how quickly things can change. Thanks for asking. Well, there's always next year but there's not much hope of meeting with Bob Hoover any time soon. Thanks Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Bichier Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City --> Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encou nter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Thanks for sharing your great pictures Peter.? What a GREAT time we had with the TCFG folks at the Fly-in and Reno Air Races.? We still have BIG smiles on our faces from the wonderful time we had!!!! For those of you unable to attend you really need to carve time out of your schedule to come meet Peter next year?-- his enthusiasm is really infectuous!!!? And we could really use some more help keeping Buddy and Moe in line and out of trouble (hehe!!!)? ~Jim & Sue -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:12 am Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 List Features Navigator to browse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Hi Nico, you guys are still in our prayers. God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Carson City > > > > Very nice pictures, Peter. Thanks. I could make out some name tags to put > faces to the names. Overall, a great presentation of the week. The > pictures > of Bob Hoover were of particular value to me as I met Mr. Hoover back in > the > '70s when he performed in South Africa at the Lanseria airport. He > autographed my program, too, which since was lost in the move to the U.S. > in > '93. It would have been particularly nice to meet with him again after all > these years. > > My wife spent six days the ICU and after another week in the regular ward, > she was released from the hospital this week. She still needs 24x7 care > and > oxygen and daily outpatient visits to the hospital for continued > treatment. > It was certainly not a time for me to be away. It just goes to show how > quickly things can change. Thanks for asking. > > Well, there's always next year but there's not much hope of meeting with > Bob > Hoover any time soon. > > Thanks > > Nico > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter > Bichier > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:13 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City > > --> > > Fellow Commanders, > > Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I > get > involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. > > I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, > meanwhile > you all can flip through and download what you want. > > we have 2 folders: > > the TCFG in Carson City: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink > > and Reno Air Races: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink > > ENJOY! > > previously (don't know if it went through): > > Hello Commanders, > > nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the > U2 > flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! > > I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ > photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D > Mustang > flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! > > Hope your wife is recovering Nico, > > Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close > to > Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) > > we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 > Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give > you > a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few > lights to fix, and of course the cops!... > > Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and > get > as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, > > Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, > > we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! > > sincerely, > > Peter > > PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? > > incredible! > > -------- > 560 Dreamer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert S. Randazzo" <rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 25, 2009
I'm sorry to have missed you all during the Fly-In! I own a team that races at Reno- and while I had planned to take a day off to visit at the Fly-In- we suddenly found ourselves in first place (by 0.18 knots) and as such my time was completely consumed with trying to find another tenth of a knot to maintain our lead. We wound up finishing in first- but a meager 0.08 knots- so of course every member of the team is claiming that that last wax buff, or screw tightened made all the difference. (In reality- it was our race pilot. incredible work on his part to hold off a very determined competitor!) Hopefully next year's fly-in won't conflict with racing and we'll be able to make the trip to wherever it might be! Robert S. Randazzo N414C From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Carson City Thanks for sharing your great pictures Peter. What a GREAT time we had with the TCFG folks at the Fly-in and Reno Air Races. We still have BIG smiles on our faces from the wonderful time we had!!!! For those of you unable to attend you really need to carve time out of your schedule to come meet Peter next year -- his enthusiasm is really infectuous!!! And we could really use some more help keeping Buddy and Moe in line and out of trouble (hehe!!!) ~Jim & Sue -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:12 am Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City Fellow Commanders, Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I get involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhile you all can flip through and download what you want. we have 2 folders: the TCFG in Carson City: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink and Reno Air Races: http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink ENJOY! previously (don't know if it went through): Hello Commanders, nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 flew over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Mustang flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! Hope your wife is recovering Nico, Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cutlass as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hint the deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, and of course the cops!... Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get as much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! sincerely, Peter PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? incredible! -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2009
Subject: Re: Carson City
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Hi Folks, Been stuck in 'crowd killers' for the last 24 hours or so, but it is time for me to add my thanks to Jim and Sue for a great TCFG Flyin! Attending is always an absolute joy and highlight of the year. Many thanks to the Commander owners for turning up...thirteen aircraft this year...wow! Sincere thanks to John Towner for making our dinner with Mr Hoover possible and for 'floating' the Reno Races idea. Well done to Peter for capturing those many spontaneous moments that are always so thick on the ground at these flyins. Congratulations to Moe for being such a magnanimous holder of the 'Golden Peddle Award' for 2009! Be sure to put the end of September in your diaries for 2010 and plan on getting along...celebrating a decade of Commanderland...our style! Cheers Russell On 26/9/09 8:16 AM, "Robert S. Randazzo" wrote: > I=B9m sorry to have missed you all during the Fly-In! > > I own a team that races at Reno- and while I had planned to take a day of f to > visit at the Fly-In- we suddenly found ourselves in first place (by 0.18 > knots) and as such my time was completely consumed with trying to find an other > tenth of a knot to maintain our lead. > > We wound up finishing in first- but a meager 0.08 knots- so of course ev ery > member of the team is claiming that that last wax buff, or screw tightene d > made all the difference. (In reality- it was our race pilot=8A incredible work > on his part to hold off a very determined competitor!) > > Hopefully next year=B9s fly-in won=B9t conflict with racing and we=B9ll be able to > make the trip to wherever it might be! > > Robert S. Randazzo > N414C > > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > yourtcfg(at)aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:29 PM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Carson City > > > Thanks for sharing your great pictures Peter. What a GREAT time we had w ith > the TCFG folks at the Fly-in and Reno Air Races. We still have BIG smiles on > our faces from the wonderful time we had!!!! > > > > For those of you unable to attend you really need to carve time out of yo ur > schedule to come meet Peter next year -- his enthusiasm is really > infectuous!!! And we could really use some more help keeping Buddy and M oe in > line and out of trouble (hehe!!!) > > > > ~Jim & Sue > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:12 am > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Carson City > > > Fellow Commanders, > > Well, this is the moment some of you have been waiting for and before I g et > involved further in my work I'll post the photos of the meeting. > > I have not have a chance to comment on the photos, that can wait, meanwhi le > you > all can flip through and download what you want. > > we have 2 folders: > > the TCFG in Carson City: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/TCFG09?feat=directlink > > and Reno Air Races: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/YVABE560/Reno09?feat=directlink > > ENJOY! > > previously (don't know if it went through): > > Hello Commanders, > > nice video, great time in Carson City and Reno, of course, and yeap, the U2 > flew > over our box a couple of times, another close encounter and personal! > > I just got off the plane, I'll try to down load and sort through my 1500+ > photos... will post them soon... I still have the image of the P-51D Must ang > flying over at 515 mph... incredible experience! > > Hope your wife is recovering Nico, > > Dan & Teresa we missed you for sure, the night life was not nearly close to > Downtown OK ... (thanks for that outing at the Wormy Dog!) > > we still had lots of laugh with Moe and Buddy buying a suspicious 1982 Cu tlass > as transportation mode... too many stories to tell! (but to give you a hi nt > the > deal involved jail, a trunk that would not open, no tags, a few lights to fix, > and of course the cops!... > > Jim don't let the FAA let you down, keep on walking, staying healthy and get > as > much advice from the AOPO or EAA, they really can be helpful, > > Mason, hope you are slowly recovering from your accident, > > we missed you all and hopefully see you next time! > > sincerely, > > Peter > > PD. and do I even need to mention..., dinner with Bob A. Hoover!???? > > incredible! > > -------- > 560 Dreamer > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971 > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971> > http://forums.matronics.com > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264971#264971> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Separation of Church and State Part
6
Date: Sep 26, 2009
Folks, My latest post. I plan on this being the penultimate post on this subject. TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/09/separation-of-church-and-state-part -6.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Looking For a Commander
Date: Sep 29, 2009
My family and I are looking for a Commander 500 to use for personal transpo rtation. I think we have it narrowed down between the 500A and B models (d ue to price). I have done quite a bit of research and spoken with quite a few people (thanks to those of you who have so graciously donated your time to answering my questions). I am writing to see if anyone in Texas has an Aero Commander that I could go to look at=2C take photos=2C and generally climb around in for a couple of minutes to take some comparative photograph s for my family. I would also like to hear what other 500 owners budget for expenses per hou r in the aircraft (to include fuel and oil). I am based at E70 around New Braunfels=2C but can travel to the airport you are located at. If you have any questions=2C please feel free to shoot me an e-mail directly. Also=2C any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated too. We have Morris curre ntly lined up for a pre-buy on any aircraft that we would purchase. Also=2C if you know of any aircraft that are for sale and not listed on the major ad sites=2C please let me know. For what its worth=2C we do have a C172 and a G35 Bonanza that we are selling if anyone is interested (or even a partial trade for one or both). Our main goal in the new aircraft that we purchase is the engine times are mid time as we don't want to have to re build engines in the next couple of years. Thanks in advance! Sincerely=2C Zac Armstrong All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selishness=3B fr om selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exce ption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not re member the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa ntayana. =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.=0A http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto rial_Storage_062009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: Looking For a Commander
Date: Sep 30, 2009
Zac, You are welcome to come view our 500A Commander at Hooks airport if you wish... e-mail if you want to come out... dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com . William D. Owens, GISP Aerial Viewpoint N14AV AC-500A-Colemill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Carson City
Date: Sep 30, 2009
Bob, Sorry to be so late in answering, however, I have been incommunicado for the last several days. Actually, the car went to Carson Aviation Services, which is the business where we all tied down. Regards, Moe From: Steele, Bob Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Carson City Moe, Need more cow bell! Was this a used car dealer - on the way to the airport - as planned? Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Carson City Fellow Commander Folks, This really was a super Commander get together! If anyone is interested the 1988 Oldsmobile that Buddy and I purchased was sold for $ 250.00. Best regards, Moe Mills N680RR Past Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award From: craig kennedy Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Carson City
Date: Sep 30, 2009
From: "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com>
Moe, Crew Car. Great Bob ________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Carson City Bob, Sorry to be so late in answering, however, I have been incommunicado for the last several days. Actually, the car went to Carson Aviation Services, which is the business where we all tied down. Regards, Moe From: Steele, Bob <mailto:Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Carson City Moe, Need more cow bell! Was this a used car dealer - on the way to the airport - as planned? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Carson City Fellow Commander Folks, This really was a super Commander get together! If anyone is interested the 1988 Oldsmobile that Buddy and I purchased was sold for $ 250.00. Best regards, Moe Mills N680RR Past Proud Holder of The Golden Pedal Award From: craig kennedy <mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Gang, It was a pleasure to meet so many Commander owners and enthusiasts in Carson City. The collective knowledge in the room was amazing and well worth the trip. Hats off to the "extra" skill sets some of you clearly possess. Like classic car acquisition, prison inmate relations, law enforcement communications, and in Morris' case, reselling the same brake parts! Dinner with R.A. (Bob) Hoover was special. Thanks to Jim (and wife), and John Towner for getting it all done. I have a technical question on my fuel system (560F) which begs some expert response. Problem. After fueling the main tank to 100 gallons, and the aux tanks to max (32.5 gal), I let plane sit overnight. The next day, 5 to 10 gallons is missing from the rt aux, but appears to have "drained" into the main. The parts manual shows no common route in my book for this kind of "cross-feed". So far, my solenoids have all been rebuild, and the vents checked to make sure they are clear. Any ideas what the problem is? Regards and thanks again for a great time. Craig href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Tragedy
Date: Oct 02, 2009
I was witness to a tragic turn of events these past few days: http://joshstaffordbooks.blogspot.com/2009/10/time-of-sadness.html The news article is here: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Woman+dead+three+others+injured+Surrey+c rash/2039703/story.html Your thoughts and prayers to the family are greatly appreciated. To protect their privacy I have not mentioned their names, but God knows who they are. The 24 year old mentioned in the news article is my 'Korean son'. God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: N29DE, Model 680V s/n 1699-76
Date: Oct 06, 2009
Hi Guys, Model 680V, s/n 1699-76, N29DE, is fast-becoming a thorn in my side! On September 23rd 1995, I saw this Commander at North Las Vegas Air Terminal. It had faded "Experimental" titles and the s/n plate had been moved. A further plate proclaimed that it had Lycoming IGSO-540-B1A engines, although no engines were actually installed on the aircraft. I was told that it had been engineless for about 5 years at this time. Having reviewed paperwork submitted to the FAA since my visit last year, I found a Court Default Judgment in favour of the current Registered owner, Mid America Funding Co Inc., of Adrian, Missouri. In that document, title to the aircraft was vested in them, together with two zero-time since overhaul Walters M601A engines. Does anybody know whether they were ever installed on the aircraft, or was this a project that got no further than a proposal? It was great to meet so many friends at the Carson City Fly-In and also to have been able to put a face to a few names. Sincere and grateful thanks go to Jim & Susan for all the hard work they put into organising another great event and to John Towner for encouraging Bob Hoover to attend the dinner on the Thursday night. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER
Date: Oct 06, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
-----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:48 am Subject: ANOTHER 580E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER HI KIDS I just received a call from TCFG member Richard Thompson.? about ten years ago, he completely disassembled a 680E, removed the wing and tail!!!!? The airplane was trucked 2000 miles across Australia to begin a ten year restoration.? Well, it flew for the first time yesterday!!? it is impossible to explain in word the commitment required, physical, emotional and financial to see a project like this through to the end.? Only a handful of people could ever have done it.? Congratulations to Richard for an amazing feat.? And thanks to his lovely wife, Jackie for her patience!!? An amazing ATTA BOY!!!? jb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER
Date: Oct 06, 2009
Let's see a picture of the restored flying machine!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: commander_list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:48 am Subject: ANOTHER 580E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER HI KIDS I just received a call from TCFG member Richard Thompson. about ten years ago, he completely disassembled a 680E, removed the wing and tail!!!! The airplane was trucked 2000 miles across Australia to begin a ten year restoration. Well, it flew for the first time yesterday!! it is impossible to explain in word the commitment required, physical, emotional and financial to see a project like this through to the end. Only a handful of people could ever have done it. Congratulations to Richard for an amazing feat. And thanks to his lovely wife, Jackie for her patience!! An amazing ATTA BOY!!! jb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER
Date: Oct 06, 2009
Hello All, Fully agreed - well done Richard and no doubt the Hobbs meter will be working overtime in the coming months. Another fact about Richard is that he has attended every TCFG Fly-In since 2001 and Jacqui has accompanied him numerous times. It's a pity that others, living in the back yard of the various Fly-Ins are never seen. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:54 PM Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com To: commander_list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:48 am Subject: ANOTHER 580E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER HI KIDS I just received a call from TCFG member Richard Thompson. about ten years ago, he completely disassembled a 680E, removed the wing and tail!!!! The airplane was trucked 2000 miles across Australia to begin a ten year restoration. Well, it flew for the first time yesterday!! it is impossible to explain in word the commitment required, physical, emotional and financial to see a project like this through to the end. Only a handful of people could ever have done it. Congratulations to Richard for an amazing feat. And thanks to his lovely wife, Jackie for her patience!! An amazing ATTA BOY!!! jb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Thompson" <richard(at)flycorp.com.au>
Subject: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER
Date: Oct 07, 2009
Hi All, JB thanks for the kind words. This has been a long and trying experience with many highs and lows. Possibly the worst part of it were those times when the doubters got to me and made me review my sanity. But hey you keep going and one day it is finished. The old girl flies like a dream. No issues other than a throttle closing on me on take off as I grabbed the gear. Thought what the hell , apply rudder, gear up and deal with the problem alter. Was happy to notice that the throttle was closed and had not killed an engine. Did not have enough tension on the throttles. Turned more than a little AvGas into noise. Apparently the smile has just started to fade, while at the same time it is a bit of an anticlimax. All we need is to do the paint and interior. On a more serious note I could not have done this without the help of a number of people both here and in the US. JimBob for all his technical help, the many hours we have spent together in 222Jim&Sue learning these 680s. For letting me and Jax into his and Sues family. We love you guys. Morris for being the fountain of knowledge that he is. Never failing to answer questions when the answer eluded me. For finding parts etc. Moe and Budddy, What more can I say. Being mates. All the rest of our friends at TCFG.We love you all and look forward each year to catching up with you. As many of you have welcomed us into your homes and lives we extend the same to you when you visit our shores. Expecting Stan and Cathy soon. Thank you all. Cheers Rich & Jax _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 2:54 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 8:48 am Subject: ANOTHER 580E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER HI KIDS I just received a call from TCFG member Richard Thompson. about ten years ago, he completely disassembled a 680E, removed the wing and tail!!!! The airplane was trucked 2000 miles across Australia to begin a ten year restoration. Well, it flew for the first time yesterday!! it is impossible to explain in word the commitment required, physical, emotional and financial to see a project like this through to the end. Only a handful of people could ever have done it. Congratulations to Richard for an amazing feat. And thanks to his lovely wife, Jackie for her patience!! An amazing ATTA BOY!!! jb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2009
Subject: Congratulations Captain Thompson!
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Hi Folks, Congratulations to Richard and Jax on a special day yesterday, Jimbob has touched on the scope of the trials that you went through to get VH-CAX back in the air again. I vividly remember how this airframe had been 'parted out' in the late 90's and how close it got to being summarily scrapped. The vision of it leaving on a low loader with wing off etc immediately invited speculation over the challenges that would be involved in this project. Many will understand how difficult it is to perform such a restoration when you simply don't have the parts or knowledge in the country...how difficult and disheartening it is to have to wait weeks and months for that next key fuel tank bladder or carburettor part...many do not have the patience or tenacity to stretch this over ten years...it is indeed a tribute to the TCFG that this restoration has been successful. Well done guys I am proud of you!! Cheers Russell (at the other end of Oz) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER
From: white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com
Date: Oct 07, 2009
What an amazing accomplishment! Kudos to all, including the helpers! I had the same throttle closing experience before overhauling both engines! I hope you took some in-process pictures to share. Craig Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Richard Thompson" <richard(at)flycorp.com.au> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 08:08:09 Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fwd: ANOTHER 680E IN THE AIR, DOWN UNDER This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: you gotta see this one!!!!
Date: Oct 07, 2009
Now that is totally awesome. Another Israeli invention, right? The Arabs are still trying to figure out real snakes. Like Osama. Subject: you gotta see this one!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yDTlToPyOc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Moshluk" <gmosh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Australian Cartoons not seen in America
Date: Oct 10, 2009
Funny, yes! But then....not so funny:-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Visser Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:04 PM Subject: Fw: Fwd: Australian Cartoons not seen in America ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: raymond gress <gressrj(at)yahoo.com> ; Timothy Elliott ; Raymond Allan Fox ; lyndsey gress ; Larry Haagsma ; Jerry Haagsma ; jerry haagsma ; Bob Hummel ; Brian Janes ; Aaron Kraai ; bryan langerack ; rick lee ; Jennifer Lynne ; mark mowery ; Linda Owens ; Randy Runyon ; Tommy ; larry visser ; wellspringchurch(at)aol.com Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 8:21:22 AM Subject: Fwd: Australian Cartoons not seen in America --- On Thu, 10/8/09, lhaagsma(at)comcast.net wrote: From: lhaagsma(at)comcast.net <lhaagsma(at)comcast.net> Subject: Fwd: Australian Cartoons not seen in America To: "Beck, Glen" , "Beck" , "Estes, Jennie" , "Aniszko, Dick" , "Wagner, Sharon" , "Robbins, Tracy" , "Racalla, Bruce" , "Rietsma, Mike" , "Penning, Martin" , "nawrot, deb" , "LaFontaine, Jack" , "LaSanta, Tom" , "Jansen, Ken" , "Haagsma, Jody" , "Hubble, Cindy" , "Hoolsema, Tom" , "Haagsma, Steve" , "Heys, Randy" , "Haagsma, Jim" , "Arntz, Patrick" , "Campbell, John" , "Chapman, Rich & Theresa" , "Claxton, Greg" , "Coates, Gary" , "Dubay, Kevin" , "Estes, Jennie" , "Farmer, Bob" , "Gress, Ray" , "Haagsma, Bill & Michelle" , bigs50(at)prodigy.net Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:03 AM Yours in Christ, Larry Haagsma ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "bigs50" <bigs50(at)prodigy.net> To: "Undisclosed-Recipient: ;" @smtp103.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:31:56 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia Subject: Fw: Australian Cartoons not seen in America Australian Cartoons not seen in America AUSTRALIAN CARTOONS...NOT SEEN IN AMERICA BELIEVE IT OR NOT -- THESE CARTOONS ARE FROM OUR FRIENDS "DOWN UNDER". WHY DO WE NEVER SEE SIMILAR IN USA PAPERS?? < BR> These cartoons are not of USA Origin!! Thanks AUSRALIA Pass them on, the liberal American press will not. . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
From: "pankajnagarkoti86" <pankajnagarkoti86(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2009
Sorry to hear about your loss, glad your ok. -------- | Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267641#267641 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
Date: Oct 12, 2009
Thank you, still hurts though. Tom... ----- Original Message ----- From: "pankajnagarkoti86" <pankajnagarkoti86(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:04 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Want to purchase a 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > > Sorry to hear about your loss, glad your ok. > > -------- > | > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267641#267641 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: 680 FL
Date: Oct 13, 2009
Folks, I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/FL/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80, neither were particularly happy experiences, with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards, Bill Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: 680 FL
Date: Oct 13, 2009
bh=2C please call me=2C i will visit w/ you about the io-720. gmc 817-877 -4977 From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL Date: Tue=2C 13 Oct 2009 23:41:18 +1100 Folks=2C I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/F L/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80=2C neither were particularly happy experiences=2C with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards=2C Bill Hamilton R0lGODlhQAYFAPQLAKfT/6/X/7fb/7/f/8fj/8/n/9fr/97u/+f0/+73//f8//////H3/+Lv/97w /9Dn/8Df/7DX/5/P/wECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAyH/C01T T0ZGSUNFOS4wDQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAIf8LTVNPRkZJQ0U5LjAYAAAADG1zT1BNU09GRklDRTku MBObKZRkACH/C01TT0ZGSUNFOS4wGAAAAAxjbVBQSkNtcDA3MTICAAAJAtxSKQAsAAAAAEAGBQAA Bf+gJI6kBJhAqqYBELwwHAmBYN/2IAx8z0OEAWFIJBSMhWThYWg2D9BDA4FIKK6LrHbL7Xq/4LB4 TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNciWQJiIrlCwuMS80NTM4Nz4+ QQRARUdKSgZMTgcOVFUJVgqOsrO0tba3uLm6u7y9vr/AwcLDxMXGwJGQJ8uVL5cxEZk1nTk7Oz0Q PUWkSEkGBaoGUVSvsMfn6Onq6+zt7u/w8fLz9PX2vMkkJyiULSwt0GoIpKbjmo9sQ4Rw67bEmxNx UlwlYMAAy72LGDNq3Mixo8ePIEOKHOkx36RJzPoquXj2YsYmap50HAyicJuRbqkeRjlA7ooCBiSD Ch1KtKjRo0iTKl3KlE4IADs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2009
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 680 FL
Bill, Admitting no first hand experience, I did watch my mechanic/restoration guru Richard Cam dial in a set of Gami's on 2 different QueenAirs. The temp problems were eliminated, and the fuel flows reduced by 10%. It's still underpowered, but not the problem it once was. The fit of the cowlings, and baffle seals got a lot of attention as well. While the Gami's have not been fitted to my IGO-540's, they have indicated they will work with me to fit a set. He's in St. Augustine (Aeroquest Services) if you want the report first hard. He has a lot of first hand experience wit the Mr. RPM conversions as well. Good Luck C ________________________________ From: Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 5:41:18 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL Folks, I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/FL/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80, neither were particularly happy experiences, with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards, Bill Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: 680 FL
Date: Oct 15, 2009
C Thanks for that, but my prior was BG ( not BC - before Gami) Off topic, but in the '60s, TAA in Australia had a small fleet of A-80s, they did a complete certification of T/O performance at METO power, to get a bit more life of the IGSO-540-B1As. They also decided to make more baggage space by burying all the avionics inside modified leading edges of the wings, then proceeded to operate some in Australia wettest areas. You can guess the rest. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:53 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680 FL Bill, Admitting no first hand experience, I did watch my mechanic/restoration guru Richard Cam dial in a set of Gami's on 2 different QueenAirs. The temp problems were eliminated, and the fuel flows reduced by 10%. It's still underpowered, but not the problem it once was. The fit of the cowlings, and baffle seals got a lot of attention as well. While the Gami's have not been fitted to my IGO-540's, they have indicated they will work with me to fit a set. He's in St. Augustine (Aeroquest Services) if you want the report first hard. He has a lot of first hand experience wit the Mr. RPM conversions as well. Good Luck C _____ From: Bill Hamilton <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au> Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 5:41:18 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL Folks, I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/FL/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80, neither were particularly happy experiences, with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards, Bill Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: 680 FL
Date: Oct 15, 2009
Mason, I am in Australia, I will see if I can give you a call, what is your present time zone re. UTC. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:11 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680 FL bh, please call me, i will visit w/ you about the io-720. gmc 817-877-4977 _____ From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:41:18 +1100 Folks, I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/FL/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80, neither were particularly happy experiences, with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards, Bill Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MASON CHEVAILLIER <kamala(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: 680 FL
Date: Oct 15, 2009
bh=2C 7:20 am. cell 817-517-4977. gmc From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680 FL Date: Thu=2C 15 Oct 2009 23:10:03 +1100 Mason=2C I am in Australia=2C I will see if I can give you a call=2C what is your pr esent time zone re. UTC. Cheers=2C Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON CHEVAILLIER Sent: Wednesday=2C October 14=2C 2009 12:11 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680 FL bh=2C please call me=2C i will visit w/ you about the io-720. gmc 817-877 -4977 From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL Date: Tue=2C 13 Oct 2009 23:41:18 +1100 Folks=2C I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the 680F/F L/FLP. My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80=2C neither were particularly happy experiences=2C with quite a few problems with a big spread of CHT. Regards=2C Bill Hamilton R0lGODlhQAYFAPQLAKfT/6/X/7fb/7/f/8fj/8/n/9fr/97u/+f0/+73//f8//////H3/+Lv/97w /9Dn/8Df/7DX/5/P/wECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAwECAyH/C01T T0ZGSUNFOS4wDQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAIf8LTVNPRkZJQ0U5LjAYAAAADG1zT1BNU09GRklDRTku MBObKZRkACH/C01TT0ZGSUNFOS4wGAAAAAxjbVBQSkNtcDA3MTICAAAJAtxSKQAsAAAAAEAGBQAA Bf+gJI6kBJhAqqYBELwwHAmBYN/2IAx8z0OEAWFIJBSMhWThYWg2D9BDA4FIKK6LrHbL7Xq/4LB4 TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNciWQJiIrlCwuMS80NTM4Nz4+ QQRARUdKSgZMTgcOVFUJVgqOsrO0tba3uLm6u7y9vr/AwcLDxMXGwJGQJ8uVL5cxEZk1nTk7Oz0Q PUWkSEkGBaoGUVSvsMfn6Onq6+zt7u/w8fLz9PX2vMkkJyiULSwt0GoIpKbjmo9sQ4Rw67bEmxNx UlwlYMAAy72LGDNq3Mixo8ePIEOKHOkx36RJzPoquXj2YsYmap50HAyicJuRbqkeRjlA7ooCBiSD Ch1KtKjRo0iTKl3KlE4IADs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: 680 FL
Date: Oct 15, 2009
Bill, Mason is in Texas which is UTC-5. Central daylight savings zone. Sidney is UTC +11. I am not sure It is Friday just after midnight now and in Texas it is just after 8 am on Thurday. Tylor Hall On Oct 15, 2009, at 6:20 AM, MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote: > bh, 7:20 am. cell 817-517-4977. gmc > > From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680 FL > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:10:03 +1100 > > Mason, > I am in Australia, I will see if I can give you a call, what is your > present time zone re. UTC. > Cheers, > Bill Hamilton > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON CHEVAILLIER > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:11 AM > To: commander-list > Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680 FL > > bh, please call me, i will visit w/ you about the io-720. gmc > 817-877-4977 > > From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: 680 FL > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:41:18 +1100 > > > Folks, > I am soliciting opinions on the 400hp direct drive conversion to the > 680F/FL/FLP. > My only experience of (roughly) the same engine was on the 400 > Comanche and the Excalibur conversion to the Queenair A80, neither > were particularly happy experiences, with quite a few problems with > a big spread of CHT. > Regards, > Bill Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Carson City Fly-In photos
Date: Oct 18, 2009
Hi Guys, Just a quick line to let you know that shots of the Commanders that attended the Carson City Fly-In last month have been posted on the Air-Britain Photos website at http://www.abpic.co.uk/index.php When the page loads, type "Twin Commander Flight Group Fly-In 2009" in the "Keywords" box and change the next box to "Air Show". The search should result in 11 shots being shown. I'll also be submitting shots of other aircraft types that were at Carson City, and also while I was in Oklahoma City after the Fly-In. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Carson City Fly-In photos
Date: Oct 18, 2009
Hello Barry, Nice pictures. I hope everything is going smooth in Jolly Ole England. Jim N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Fly-In photos Hi Guys, Just a quick line to let you know that shots of the Commanders that attended the Carson City Fly-In last month have been posted on the Air-Britain Photos website at http://www.abpic.co.uk/index.php When the page loads, type "Twin Commander Flight Group Fly-In 2009" in the "Keywords" box and change the next box to "Air Show". The search should result in 11 shots being shown. I'll also be submitting shots of other aircraft types that were at Carson City, and also while I was in Oklahoma City after the Fly-In. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Carson City Fly-In photos
Date: Oct 18, 2009
Hi Jim, Thanks! Everything's just fine over here and I hope it's the same with you! Very Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Addington To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Carson City Fly-In photos Hello Barry, Nice pictures. I hope everything is going smooth in Jolly Ole England. Jim N444BD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:05 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Fly-In photos Hi Guys, Just a quick line to let you know that shots of the Commanders that attended the Carson City Fly-In last month have been posted on the Air-Britain Photos website at http://www.abpic.co.uk/index.php When the page loads, type "Twin Commander Flight Group Fly-In 2009" in the "Keywords" box and change the next box to "Air Show". The search should result in 11 shots being shown. I'll also be submitting shots of other aircraft types that were at Carson City, and also while I was in Oklahoma City after the Fly-In. Best Regards, Barry - The Commander-List Email Forum ---> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Carson City Fly-In photos
Date: Oct 18, 2009
Barry=2C Do you have contact info for N628ah?? Records show Seven one romer inc=2C but was hoping for phone # or email. Thanks=2C Roland Gilliam AC500 6291b sn 683 (his is 682) From: barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk Subject: Commander-List: Carson City Fly-In photos Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 14:05:05 +0100 Hi Guys=2C Just a quick line to let you know that shots of the Commanders that attende d the Carson City Fly-In last month have been posted on the Air-Britain Pho tos website at http://www.abpic.co.uk/index.php When the page loads=2C type "Twin Commander Flight Group Fly-In 2009" in th e "Keywords" box and change the next box to "Air Show". The search should result in 11 shots being shown. I'll also be submitting shots of other aircraft types that were at Carson C ity=2C and also while I was in Oklahoma City after the Fly-In. Best Regards=2C Barry _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Date: Oct 19, 2009
I hope this does not offend any one but was just too fitting. Jim N444bd An old Pilot sat down in a Starbucks and ordered a cup of coffee. As he sipped his coffee, a beautiful young blonde sat down next to him. She turned to him and asked, "Are you a real pilot??" He replied, "Well, I spent my entire adult life flying airplanes; Piper Cubs, Aeronca's; flew Corsairs in WWII and later in the Korean conflict; taught 50 people to fly and gave rides to hundreds; flew many airliners, and retired as a Boeing 747 Captain ... so, I reckon, I am a pilot." She said, "Wow!! I'm impressed!! Well, I'm a lesbian! I spend all my time thinking about beautiful naked women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women. Seems like just about everything makes me think of naked women. So, that's why I'm a lesbian." The two sat sipping their coffee in silence. Later, a young man sat down on the other side of the pilot and asked, "Are you a real pilot?" He replied, "Well, I had always thought I was, but I just learned ... that I'm a lesbian." [] [] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Bear country
Date: Oct 19, 2009
Some of you may have seen this already. <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/cub_bear_man_pictures_alaska_201323-1. html#gallery> http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/cub_bear_man_pictures_alaska_201323-1.h tml#gallery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: mander-List:
Date: Oct 19, 2009
I will try this again, it did not all copy over. Jim An old Pilot sat down in a Starbucks and ordered a cup of coffee. As he sipped his coffee, a beautiful young blonde sat down next to him. She turned to him and asked, "Are you a real pilot??" He replied, "Well, I spent my entire adult life flying airplanes; Piper Cubs, Aeronca's; flew Corsairs in WWII and later in the Korean conflict; taught 50 people to fly and gave rides to hundreds; flew many airliners, and retired as a Boeing 747 Captain ... so, I reckon, I am a pilot." She said, "Wow!! I'm impressed!! Well, I'm a lesbian! I spend all my time thinking about beautiful naked women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women. Seems like just about everything makes me think of naked women. So, that's why I'm a lesbian." The two sat sipping their coffee in silence. Later, a young man sat down on the other side of the pilot and asked, "Are you a real pilot?" He replied, "Well, I had always thought I was, but I just learned ... that I'm a lesbian." [] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: mander-List:
Date: Oct 19, 2009
I gotit all the first time, Jim. Very funny. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: I will try this again, it did not all copy over. Jim An old Pilot sat down in a Starbucks and ordered a cup of coffee. As he sipped his coffee, a beautiful young blonde sat down next to him. She turned to him and asked, "Are you a real pilot??" He replied, "Well, I spent my entire adult life flying airplanes; Piper Cubs, Aeronca's; flew Corsairs in WWII and later in the Korean conflict; taught 50 people to fly and gave rides to hundreds; flew many airliners, and retired as a Boeing 747 Captain ... so, I reckon, I am a pilot." She said, "Wow!! I'm impressed!! Well, I'm a lesbian! I spend all my time thinking about beautiful naked women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women. When I watch TV, I think about naked women. Seems like just about everything makes me think of naked women. So, that's why I'm a lesbian." The two sat sipping their coffee in silence. Later, a young man sat down on the other side of the pilot and asked, "Are you a real pilot?" He replied, "Well, I had always thought I was, but I just learned ... that I'm a lesbian." [] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Video streaming test
Date: Oct 21, 2009
I uploaded this video to my media server and would like to have your comment on the quality and smoothness of delivery. http://www.acu.org/patsycline.html Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Video streaming test
Date: Oct 21, 2009
Streams fine to me. T ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'nico' Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: Commander-List: Video streaming test I uploaded this video to my media server and would like to have your comment on the quality and smoothness of delivery. http://www.acu.org/patsycline.html Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Hi Guys, I thought people might be interested to know that a Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP has turned up on ebay. Identity shown as N401MG, which makes it s/n 1527-24, although the FAA show it as s/n 1527-29. This error seems to have emanated from the factory, from "day one"! It had the Mr RPM package, Lycoming IO-720-B engines with Rajay turbochargers, installed in February 1976 and also has a Miller nose, winglets, "Shrike" vertical tip assembly and cockpit overhead (eyebrow) windows modifications. It was first Certificated in July 1965, when it received an Export Certificate to Canada, returning to the USA in March 1968. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Can you post the link? Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Hi Guys, I thought people might be interested to know that a Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP has turned up on ebay. Identity shown as N401MG, which makes it s/n 1527-24, although the FAA show it as s/n 1527-29. This error seems to have emanated from the factory, from "day one"! It had the Mr RPM package, Lycoming IO-720-B engines with Rajay turbochargers, installed in February 1976 and also has a Miller nose, winglets, "Shrike" vertical tip assembly and cockpit overhead (eyebrow) windows modifications. It was first Certificated in July 1965, when it received an Export Certificate to Canada, returning to the USA in March 1968. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Hey Tom, I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, but hope this makes you sigh a bit... here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180423184275&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 have a good one, p. -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Thanks Peter, pretty pricey. Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > > Hey Tom, > > I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, but > hope this makes you sigh a bit... > > here it is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180423184275&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 > > have a good one, > > p. > > -------- > 560 Dreamer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
It's also featured on Controller.com http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1 <http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=9&Manu=COMMANDER&Mdlt xt=680FLP&mdlx=exact&setype=1> &catid=9&Manu=COMMANDER&Mdltxt=680FLP&mdlx=exact&setype=1 _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Can you post the link? Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman <mailto:barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Hi Guys, I thought people might be interested to know that a Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP has turned up on ebay. Identity shown as N401MG, which makes it s/n 1527-24, although the FAA show it as s/n 1527-29. This error seems to have emanated from the factory, from "day one"! It had the Mr RPM package, Lycoming IO-720-B engines with Rajay turbochargers, installed in February 1976 and also has a Miller nose, winglets, "Shrike" vertical tip assembly and cockpit overhead (eyebrow) windows modifications. It was first Certificated in July 1965, when it received an Export Certificate to Canada, returning to the USA in March 1968. Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Date: Oct 26, 2009
Tom, This is 400CH that was based in Las Vegas and Brock Lorber was the pilot. They put the Garmin radios in it. The present owners painted it and got a new N number. Tylor On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: > > > > Thanks Peter, pretty pricey. > Tom. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu > > > To: > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > >> > >> >> Hey Tom, >> >> I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, >> but hope this makes you sigh a bit... >> >> here it is: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180423184275&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 >> >> have a good one, >> >> p. >> >> -------- >> 560 Dreamer >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
I don't recall the history on 400CH. Tom... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tylor Hall" <tylorhall(at)mac.com> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > Tom, > This is 400CH that was based in Las Vegas and Brock Lorber was the > pilot. > They put the Garmin radios in it. The present owners painted it and got > a new N number. > Tylor > > On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: > >> > > >> >> Thanks Peter, pretty pricey. >> Tom. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" >> > > >> To: >> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM >> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay >> >> >>> >> > >>> >>> Hey Tom, >>> >>> I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, but >>> hope this makes you sigh a bit... >>> >>> here it is: >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180423184275&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 >>> >>> have a good one, >>> >>> p. >>> >>> -------- >>> 560 Dreamer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Here's the specs I had before I left that job. After that the strobes were put on the wingtips and engine monitors installed. Sorry all the bigger picture links are broken, but I just haven't gotten around to deleting the whole page, yet. :) http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch/ My how prices have fallen... Brock -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Fisher Sent: Mon 10/26/2009 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay I don't recall the history on 400CH. Tom... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tylor Hall" <tylorhall(at)mac.com> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > Tom, > This is 400CH that was based in Las Vegas and Brock Lorber was the > pilot. > They put the Garmin radios in it. The present owners painted it and got > a new N number. > Tylor > > On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: > >> > > >> >> Thanks Peter, pretty pricey. >> Tom. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" >> > > >> To: >> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM >> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay >> >> >>> >> > >>> >>> Hey Tom, >>> >>> I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, but >>> hope this makes you sigh a bit... >>> >>> here it is: >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180423184 275&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBay ISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 >>> >>> have a good one, >>> >>> p. >>> >>> -------- >>> 560 Dreamer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au
Date: Oct 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Folks, If this is the same one I mentioned a month or so ago on eBay, it is now advertised elsewhere at US$280,000 or offers, on Controller.com, from memory. Cheers, Bill Hamilton ===================================================================== > Brock Lorber wrote: > > Here's the specs I had before I left that job. After that the strobes > were put on the wingtips and engine monitors installed. > > Sorry all the bigger picture links are broken, but I just haven't gotten > around to deleting the whole page, yet. :) > > http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch/ > > My how prices have fallen... > > Brock > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Fisher > Sent: Mon 10/26/2009 11:49 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > > > I don't recall the history on 400CH. > Tom... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tylor Hall" <tylorhall(at)mac.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:30 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > > > > > > Tom, > > This is 400CH that was based in Las Vegas and Brock Lorber was the > > pilot. > > They put the Garmin radios in it. The present owners painted it and > got > > a new N number. > > Tylor > > > > On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Tom Fisher wrote: > > > >> >> > > >> > >> Thanks Peter, pretty pricey. > >> Tom. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bichier" > >> >> > > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:47 AM > >> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay > >> > >> > >>> >>> > > >>> > >>> Hey Tom, > >>> > >>> I imagine you never really recover from an experience like you had, > but > >>> hope this makes you sigh a bit... > >>> > >>> here it is: > >>> > >>> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=18042318427 > 5&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAP > I.dll%3FMyEbayBeta#ht_917wt_923 > >>> > >>> have a good one, > >>> > >>> p. > >>> > >>> -------- > >>> 560 Dreamer > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Read this topic online here: > >>> > >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269500#269500 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 26, 2009
That's three prices listed so far; 375k 350k 299k Tom... ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay It's also featured on Controller.com http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=9&Manu=COMMAN DER&Mdltxt=680FLP&mdlx=exact&setype=1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:13 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Can you post the link? Tom C-GISS ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Collman To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 7:59 AM Subject: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Hi Guys, I thought people might be interested to know that a Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP has turned up on ebay. Identity shown as N401MG, which makes it s/n 1527-24, although the FAA show it as s/n 1527-29. This error seems to have emanated from the factory, from "day one"! It had the Mr RPM package, Lycoming IO-720-B engines with Rajay turbochargers, installed in February 1976 and also has a Miller nose, winglets, "Shrike" vertical tip assembly and cockpit overhead (eyebrow) windows modifications. It was first Certificated in July 1965, when it received an Export Certificate to Canada, returning to the USA in March 1968. Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2009
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Did this use to be N400CH? Bill Leff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 28, 2009
Hi Bill, Yes, it was N400CH before the current Registration, N401MG. Before that, it was N222AD, N700KC and was originally CF-SNL in Canada. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:14 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Did this use to be N400CH? Bill Leff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2009
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)" <deneals(at)deneals.com>
On 10/28/09 7:00 AM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote: > Yes, it was N400CH before the current Registration, N401MG. > Before that, it was N222AD, N700KC and was originally CF-SNL in Canada. > > Best Regards, > Barry Sir Barry: Wasn=B9t 700KC once registered (in the 1970s) to Avco or Avco Broadcasting of Cincinnati, OH? -- Deneal Schilmeister 911 Imperial Pt Manchester, MO 63021-6934 deneals(at)deneals.com http://deneals.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 28, 2009
Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebayHi Deneal, Yes - indeed it was Registered to AVCO Broadcasting Corp., of Cincinnati, Ohio. The marks represented WLW-D Radio broadcast frequency of 700 kilo cycles. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro) To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay On 10/28/09 7:00 AM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote: Yes, it was N400CH before the current Registration, N401MG. Before that, it was N222AD, N700KC and was originally CF-SNL in Canada. Best Regards, Barry Sir Barry: Wasn't 700KC once registered (in the 1970s) to Avco or Avco Broadcasting of Cincinnati, OH? -- Deneal Schilmeister 911 Imperial Pt Manchester, MO 63021-6934 deneals(at)deneals.com http://deneals.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
Date: Oct 28, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
The oldest flight logs with it are great. On one side of the page is MX entries, on the other side are flight/passenger logs. Pax include: Bob Hope, Jimmy Stewart, Phil Donahue, and many others. Pilots include Mr. Bill Leff. ;-) Brock -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Barry Collman Sent: Wed 10/28/2009 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebayHi Deneal, Yes - indeed it was Registered to AVCO Broadcasting Corp., of Cincinnati, Ohio. The marks represented WLW-D Radio broadcast frequency of 700 kilo cycles. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro) To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay On 10/28/09 7:00 AM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote: Yes, it was N400CH before the current Registration, N401MG. Before that, it was N222AD, N700KC and was originally CF-SNL in Canada. Best Regards, Barry Sir Barry: Wasn't 700KC once registered (in the 1970s) to Avco or Avco Broadcasting of Cincinnati, OH? -- Deneal Schilmeister 911 Imperial Pt Manchester, MO 63021-6934 deneals(at)deneals.com http://deneals.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] America and Liberalism
Date: Oct 30, 2009
Finally, another post got out today. Enjoy. Thanks Nico TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/10/america-and-liberalism.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
That is right Berry, the company I worked for bought it from Avco and Dick Wartinger and I did the Mr. RPM conversion about 1976. I have some great pictures of it as N222AD and N700KC. Avco used it to transport celebrities who were appearing on the Phil Donahue show. The aircraft log book have the every flight Avco made and who was on it. Some of the names include, Bob Hope, Phyllis Diller, The Four Freshman, Maria Von Trapp etc. I flew it 600 to 800 hours I think. and flew it with both IGSO-540's and IO-720's. The fastest I ever got it to go was 215 kts at FL210 Bill Leff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Mr RPM "Turbo 800" 680FLP on ebay
I don't know who owns it now but I still have friends from WLW and we would like to get some copies of the old logs. I am still in contact with the brother of WLW's pilot. Charlie Petro, the WLW pilot passed away a number of years ago. It was the second Commander I ever flew in 1970 while WLW still owned it. I have also given a lot of training in that plane to many of it's past owners. Bill Leff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Fw: Good Oshkosh Video
Date: Nov 01, 2009
----- Original Message ----- From: scott<mailto:sboyn(at)frontiernet.net> silverman Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Check Oshkosh 09. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: markhambob(at)juno.com<mailto:markhambob(at)juno.com> To: Beltzwjsl(at)aol.com Sent: 10/26/2009 7:54:28 P.M. Central Standard Time Subj: Good Oshkosh Video --- If you like airplanes....you'll like this.... Here is a really neat video from Oshkosh this year. Enjoy. Some great flying machines! http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc /watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Fw: Good Oshkosh Video
Date: Nov 01, 2009
WOW. Great Video. Great memories from Oskosh 09. Thanks for sharing. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd silverman Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:50 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Good Oshkosh Video ----- Original Message ----- From: scott <mailto:sboyn(at)frontiernet.net> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Check Oshkosh 09. _____ From: markhambob(at)juno.com Sent: 10/26/2009 7:54:28 P.M. Central Standard Time Subj: Good Oshkosh Video --- If you like airplanes....you'll like this.... Here is a really neat video from Oshkosh this year. Enjoy. Some great flying machines! <http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Quiet appointments. Is this true?
Date: Nov 01, 2009
Remember his line in his book: If things go badly, I will stand with Islam. He is hedging his bets. Where do you think the preponderance of armed force is going to come from when he feels the need to stand up his domestic police force? They will come to him through the auspices of the UN. They will be from the many Islamic nations sworn to destroy us. Who will stop them unless we rise up and slay them ourselves?? Obama Appoints 2 Devout Muslims to Homeland Security Posts (NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...? Just wondering) Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? Obama and Janet Nappy Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post, Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development. Source for announcement: <http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1240595153301.shtm> Homeland Security Press Room <http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment-a rif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html> http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment-ar if-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html Kareem Shora, who was born in Damascus, Syria was appointed by DHS Secretary Napolitano on Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC) Washington, DC June 5, 2009 <http://www.adc.org/> www.adc.org The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that earlier today at a ceremony held in Albuquerque , New Mexico , DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in ADC National Executive Director Kareem Shora s a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC). ********************************************** Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? That should make our homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S. buildings not too long ago. What the heck is this president thinking? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quiet appointments. Is this true?
Date: Nov 01, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jb -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 1, 2009 5:33 pm Subject: Commander-List: Quiet appointments. Is this true? Remember his line in his book: If things go badly, I will stand with Isla m. He is hedging his bets. Where do you think the preponderance of armed force is going to come from when he feels the need to stand up his domest ic police force? They will come to him through the auspices of the UN. They will be from the many Islamic nations sworn to destroy us. Who wil l stop them unless we rise up and slay them ourselves?? Obama Appoints 2 Devout Muslims to Homeland Security Posts (NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...? Just wondering) Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? Obama and Janet Nappy Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post, Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development. Source for announcement: Homeland Security Press Room http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment- arif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html Kareem Shora, who was born in Damascus, Syria was appointed by DHS Secretary Napolitano on Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC) Washington, DC June 5, 2009 www.adc.org The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that earlier today at a ceremony held in Albuquerque , New Mexico , DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in ADC National Executive Director Kareem Shora s a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC). ********************************************** Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? That should make our homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S. buildings not too long ago. What the heck is this president thinking? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Moshluk" <gmosh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Quiet appointments. Is this true?
Date: Nov 02, 2009
Nico, So much for growing into the job. These appointments must have been made on halloween! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'nico' Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: Commander-List: Quiet appointments. Is this true? Remember his line in his book: If things go badly, I will stand with Islam. He is hedging his bets. Where do you think the preponderance of armed force is going to come from when he feels the need to stand up his domestic police force? They will come to him through the auspices of the UN. They will be from the many Islamic nations sworn to destroy us. Who will stop them unless we rise up and slay them ourselves?? Obama Appoints 2 Devout Muslims to Homeland Security Posts (NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...? Just wondering) Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? Obama and Janet Nappy Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post, Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development. Source for announcement: Homeland Security Press Room http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment -arif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html Kareem Shora, who was born in Damascus, Syria was appointed by DHS Secretary Napolitano on Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC) Washington, DC June 5, 2009 www.adc.org The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that earlier today at a ceremony held in Albuquerque , New Mexico , DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in ADC National Executive Director Kareem Shora s a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC). ********************************************** Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? That should make our homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S. buildings not too long ago. What the heck is this president thinking? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Quiet appointments. Is this true?
If we don`t vote them out( Congress and Obama) this next election this country is going to go down hill very fast. The people in this country that want more entitlements will FAR out number we AMERICANS that love this country and our FREEDOM ! We will have to find an alternative or move ! Gil In a message dated 11/2/2009 5:41:36 A.M. Central America Standard T, gmosh(at)charter.net writes: Nico, So much for growing into the job. These appointments must have been made on halloween! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: _nico css_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: Commander-List: Quiet appointments. Is this true? Remember his line in his book: If things go badly, I will stand with Islam. He is hedging his bets. Where do you think the preponderance of armed force is going to come from when he feels the need to stand up his domestic police force? They will come to him through the auspices of the UN. They will be from the many Islamic nations sworn to destroy us. Who will stop them unless we rise up and slay them ourselves?? Obama Appoints 2 Devout Muslims to Homeland Security Posts (NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...? Just wondering) Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? Obama and Janet Nappy Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post, Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development. Source for announcement: _Homeland Security Press Room_ (http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1240595153301.shtm) _http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment-a rif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html_ (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-appointment-arif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html) Kareem Shora, who was born in Damascus, Syria was appointed by DHS Secretary Napolitano on Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC) Washington, DC June 5, 2009 _www.adc.org_ (http://www.adc.org/) The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that earlier today at a ceremony held in Albuquerque , New Mexico , DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in ADC National Executive Director Kareem Shora s a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC). ********************************************** Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? That should make our homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S. buildings not too long ago. What the heck is this president thinking? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Good Oshkosh Video
Great photo`s. Thanks for sharing them. Gil In a message dated 11/1/2009 9:12:32 A.M. Central America Standard T, rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes: WOW. Great Video. Great memories from Oskosh 09. Thanks for sharing. Randy Dettmer, AIA 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ____________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd silverman Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:50 AM Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Good Oshkosh Video ----- Original Message ----- From: _scott_ (mailto:sboyn(at)frontiernet.net) silverman_ (mailto:lloydsss11(at)msn.com) Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Subject: Fwd: Good Oshkosh Video Check Oshkosh 09. ____________________________________ From: _markhambob(at)juno.com_ (mailto:markhambob(at)juno.com) Sent: 10/26/2009 7:54:28 P.M. Central Standard Time Subj: Good Oshkosh Video --- If you like airplanes....you'll like this.... Here is a really neat video from Oshkosh this year. Enjoy. Some great flying machines! _http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc) www.aeroelectric.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Road Landing [from AVweb] (I guess they aren't going to
publish this after all)
Date: Nov 02, 2009
From: Aviation Safety [mailto:aviation_safety(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Road Landing [from AVweb] Thank you for your note about your experience in landing an airplane on a road. On behalf of Aviation Safety magazine and AVweb, we sincerely appreciate your taking the time to share your experience with us. As you may recall, we asked for your response as part of a project to do a podcast with two pilots who have landed on roads. Although it took way too long, we're putting the finishing touches on that project. Thanks for your response, and best wishes to you in your flying. Jeb Joseph E. (Jeb) Burnside Editor-in-Chief Aviation Safety magazine www.aviationsafetymagazine.com jeb.burnside(at)belvoirpubs.com 941.306.2245 _____ From: nico(at)nicsysco.com Subject: Road Landing [from AVweb] Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:43:17 -0700 ROAD LANDING This might not fit your exact story-profile, but in the 1970's and early '80s, I used to land on roads in Southern Africa on a regular basis. During those years, there were seldom anybody else in the sky when one ventures away from the cities, especially north west towards Botswana and Namibia. I was part of a construction company back then and we landed a contract to build a flood control/irrigation dam near the Botswana border. Driving out to survey the site before sending establishment crews to set up camp and build an airfield, was an arduous affair with hardly any roads, no signs, and not many people speaking English. Flying there and pick a road or open area to land was par for the course in those days. Not that I needed a reason to fly, I should add. On this particular trip I flew a Cherokee 300, was alone and I made sure that I didn't have too much fuel on board, preparing for very short landings and take-offs. The Cherokee is not the plane of choice for road and bush landings, because of the low wing. A high wing, fowler flap equipped plane, especially with a STOL conversion, like a Cessna 206 or 207 is the ideal tri-cycle plane for such work. The Cherokee had to do for this trip and the only influence the low wing had on the trip was road selection: no culverts, bridges, shrubs close to the road, and so on. When I left, my guys wanted to know how I will prove that I actually landed at the site. I said I'll bring back a rock with fresh soil on it. And off I went armed with the topographical map of the dam-site. Since navigational aids fade quickly in that direction, dead reckoning navigation is best not forgotten and I ended up more or less in the vicinity after about an hour's flight, but I could not pin-point the exact location to scout for a camp-site and airfield. I saw, however, a nice gravel road running north-south that should be close by the construction site. The most important part of landing on a road is the preparation: make sure that a safe landing can be executed and that a take-off would be easy. I found that three inspection passes cover surface and obstacles, approach, length, and overrun for both the landing and the take-off. After landing, the unexpected happened. I couldn't help to think that I was swarmed by hordes of ants, but they were black kids, nicely dressed in school uniforms, that rushed out of school to witness this never-before-seen phenomenon. I must have stirred up the excitement with my precautionary passes and when I actually touched down smack in the middle of their school complex, school was out. From the air, there was no indication that there was a school there because their school consisted of mud huts and shelters built of tree branches. Didn't look like anything in particular at all from the air. Pushing through roughly two-thousand kids now pushing up against the plane, I could see an adult making his way towards me with a smile as large as the Grand Canyon. I couldn't help but notice that he was smartly dressed with shirt and tie, quite an unexpected site out in the bush. He shook my hand vigorously and welcomed me at their school commenting on the excitement I caused at his school and making for many essays to be written in the future about the day a plane landed in the school yard. After exchanging some niceties, I pulled my topographic map out from the plane and explained to him what I was looking for and if he could point the location on my map. He immediately recognized the local names on the map and pointed to a small range of hills to the north and said the spot is just over those hills and added some landmarks I should look out for. It turned out he was the school's principal and geography teacher. That was truly unexpected. Take-off time. I walked to the side of the road and picked up a brick-sized rock with fresh red-soil on it and tucked it safely into the plane. The kids were singing and chanting with delight at the site before them and I had no chance getting them to move away from the Cherokee. So, I asked the principal if he could get the kids to move off the road as I will be accelerating and they might not get out of the way in time. He waved and yelled something in Tswana causing them to scatter along the road in the direction of my take-off. As they lined the road, the one behind the one in front leaning a bit into the road to see the plane, creating a funnel of kids right into the middle of the road not more than 300 feet ahead. Several times I had to get out onto the wing, waving them off the road. When I started the engine, the road closed again with exciting kids wanting to see and hear the roar of the 300 hp Lycoming, which must have sounded like something from outer space to them. So I continued my dance out onto the wing and back again a couple of times, until I had about 500 feet of clear road ahead of me, cautious of a possible hard stop if they would not move off the road in time as I approach on my takeoff roll. So I let all 300 horses go with the awesome roar that the Lycoming can produce and the resultant dust storm behind it. Fortunately, the kids saw what was coming and they smartly moved out of the way in a wave. I had more than enough space to take off without endangering anyone, except perhaps the additional homework that I brought onto them. I proceeded to the construction site and successfully identified where we would build the camp-site and airfield. When I landed at Lanseria, west of Johannesburg, my guys were waiting for me having heard me calling in on the comm and I promptly delivered the rock with fresh red-soil. I guess the teachable moment is to expect anything and always be on guard. Nico van Niekerk, Thousand Oaks, CA 91359 nico(at)acu.org (818) 574-7146 _____ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: Obamacare
Date: Nov 02, 2009
Why ABC Fired John Stossel John Stossel was fired from ABC (20-20)'s shortly after he trashed Obamacare in a news feature. The actual airing of the special was delayed until AFTER Henry Waxman's House committee voted on HR3200. All this was, of course, "coincidence." It looks like FOX news has picked him up. Ovver a million people have seen this on YouTube. It needs to be shown to a great many more people. It's a graphic message that President Obama has no desire for you to see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)

September 05, 2009 - November 05, 2009

Commander-Archive.digest.vol-do