Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dr
April 26, 2010 - July 10, 2010
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dr
April 26, 2010 - July 10, 2010
THANKS NICO, PLUGS ALL LOOK CLEAN AFTER RUN.
----- Original Message -----
From: cybersuperstore<mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
Could it be a misfire? Injector or magneto?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of lloyd silverman
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 4:13 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
THANKSDAN. IT'S THE RIGHT ENGINE ONLY. ILL CHECK COMPRESSION AND BLADE
ANGLES.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Wold<mailto:danwold(at)gmail.com>
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
>
Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Umm.. Don't do that?
Cheers,
DJW
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:25 AM,
> wrote:
> "Excessive" vibration will not be solved by dynamic balancing.
Both
> engines?? Check engine compression and propeller blade angles.
Good luck.
> jb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lloyd silverman
>
> To: commander-list
>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 25, 2010 6:46 pm
> Subject: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
>
> MY 500B WITH IO540'S HAS EXCESIVE VIBRATION AT 1400 RPM. ANY
IDEAS, OR CAN U
> RECOMMEND SOMEONE WHO CAN DYNAMICALY BALANC PROP IN NEW YORK AT
MGJ.
> THANKS,LLOYD
>
> ==========
> t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2010
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ACLU onslaught
>Did you know that the ACLU has filed a suit to have all military
cross-shaped headstones removed
Although it's believable that the aclu might pull such a stunt, this
email is totally false. Y'all should check facts before posting such
things.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: ACLU onslaught
Date: Apr 26, 2010
Why don't you (and you know who "you" are) stick to Twin Commander topics
only and keep the B.S. politics off the site. I know it's a free country
and free speech but we don't need it on this board.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ACLU onslaught
>Did you know that the ACLU has filed a suit to have all military
cross-shaped headstones removed
Although it's believable that the aclu might pull such a stunt, this
email is totally false. Y'all should check facts before posting such
things.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
Date: Apr 26, 2010
JIM,THANKS FOR THE INFO. ILL LET U KNOW WHEN I FIND THE ANSWER. LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Addington<mailto:jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
I got my prop back from the prop shop and the vibration was bad enough
to do damage to the spinner and back plate. We were 50 miles off show
when we discovered it. I managed to get it home and took it back to the
prop shop and found the blade they had replace was too long and out of
pitch. Mine did not vibrate enough to notice but it sure did some
damage.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 6:13 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
THANKSDAN. IT'S THE RIGHT ENGINE ONLY. ILL CHECK COMPRESSION AND BLADE
ANGLES.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Wold<mailto:danwold(at)gmail.com>
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
>
Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Umm.. Don't do that?
Cheers,
DJW
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:25 AM,
> wrote:
> "Excessive" vibration will not be solved by dynamic balancing.
Both
> engines?? Check engine compression and propeller blade angles.
Good luck.
> jb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lloyd silverman
>
> To: commander-list
>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 25, 2010 6:46 pm
> Subject: Commander-List: VIBRATION AT 1400RPM
>
> MY 500B WITH IO540'S HAS EXCESIVE VIBRATION AT 1400 RPM. ANY
IDEAS, OR CAN U
> RECOMMEND SOMEONE WHO CAN DYNAMICALY BALANC PROP IN NEW YORK AT
MGJ.
> THANKS,LLOYD
>
> ==========
> t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Need some postal addresses
Date: Apr 26, 2010
Hello everybody,
I finally received the paper copies of my book, Dragon in the Sky--it's
a bit disappointing as not all the errors the publisher made were
corrected. I did try to get a legal ruling to force them to make the
changes, but was unsuccessful. To be honest, the errors are not major:
the header page for Part Three is labelled Part Two, and there are a
couple of places where the punctuation is missing due to (apparently)
font incompatibilities.
Nico van Niekerk, Tom Fisher, Don Girod and Bruce Campbell, please send
me your postal addresses so I can send you your copies with my thanks
for your help. Email me directly, please, at:
andrew (dot) bridget (at) telus (dot) net - replace " (dot) " with a
period and " (at) " with the @ symbol. Thanks!
Best wishes,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: ACLU onslaught
Date: Apr 26, 2010
I'll take my medicine. It was sent accidentally and I was duly slapped
around by someone else who sent me the snopes on it.
Sorry about that, folks.
You must know I would never do something like that intentionally, right?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: ACLU onslaught
Why don't you (and you know who "you" are) stick to Twin Commander topics
only and keep the B.S. politics off the site. I know it's a free country
and free speech but we don't need it on this board.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ACLU onslaught
>Did you know that the ACLU has filed a suit to have all military
cross-shaped headstones removed
Although it's believable that the aclu might pull such a stunt, this
email is totally false. Y'all should check facts before posting such
things.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Trace Engines at AMT magizine
Date: Apr 28, 2010
Team,
There is a very interesting article in Aircraft Maintenance Technology magazine.
Cover photo of a trace engine test cell.
http://amtonline.com/
You can view the article on line.
Tylor Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Nice flying
Date: Apr 29, 2010
http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Video/Two-become-one-021242830555
557
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Nico, the Radial engine heads are beefier. By the way, an IGSO-540-B1A
uses a single fuel injector in the supercharger housing. The individual lines
going to the cylinders are primer lines. It is impossible to put GAMI
injectors on that engine. Lycoming has had a tradition of cracking cyl heads on
many models. The same engine on the Queen Air ( IGSO-540-A1A ) uses a
Bendix fuel servo but still uses a single injector.
The problem is BMEP because of the low compression and high manifold
pressures. There is no way to monitor BMEP on this engine.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/21/2010 8:20:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago. I
am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
75% power on a IGSO is not recommended. However as you indicated above 75%
150-200 rich is mandatory. On the IGO 540 I use 50 deg rich, on the IGSO I
use 100 deg, rich.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 12:25:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
Good Evening Bill,
I guess if you have that much experience with your engines and are happy
with what you have there is no need to change.
And I agree, operating at high power and Peak EGT is rarely a good idea.
If that is what the Commander folks recommend, I am surprised. Fifty rich
of peak EGT is about the hottest spot you could operate.
Personally, if I wanted to use seventy-five percent power or more, I would
run more like 150 to 200 rich of peak EGT. Once again, all of this assumes
good distribution, if the distribution is poor 150 to 200 rich is the
better compromise, but it ain't good!
However, any engine can be operated lean of peak if it has well balanced
fuel distribution. There are limits and there are conditions. There is
absolutely nothing about a Pratt and Whitney or a Curtiss Wright that makes
them capable of lean operations other than they have the means to get an even
distribution of fuel to each cylinder.
I have not ran any of the large geared Lycomings for many years, but they
told us then and tell us now that we can't hurt the engine with the mixture
control, so I always felt comfortable experimenting. When I found that I
had good distribution, I would often run on the lean side of best power. If
the power available was adequate for my needs, it not only saved fuel, but
the engines ran cooler and cleaner just like those Curtiss Wright engineers
said they would. Same thing goes for any engine. There is no magic and
this information is not new. Lindbergh used it and it worked well for him.
What is wrong with running cleaner and cooler?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 4/21/2010 6:40:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
BillLeff1(at)aol.com writes:
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane so
far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago.
I am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
===================================
t href
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Hey Gordon, I am at Simcom at Westwind school. Yes, I an going to be flying
one of those things again. My instructor is flying N300TC! Imagine
that!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak --
somewhere in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming
IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when
running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Air
Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to
compensate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead
lubricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of
premature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different
than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's
something to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which
squirts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four
engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from
cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different
due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some other imbalance in the
air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of running
LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does cut
down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s when
running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run rich,
made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When money was
tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _cybersuperstore_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_BobsV35B(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com) writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <_nico(at)cybersuperstore.com_
(mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) >
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago. I
am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
===================================
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Forgot, you are right, we had better gas back then. If you follow the
Commander POH you will be running at peek. Lycoming does show LOP operation.
THEY ALSO SELL CYLINDERS!!!!!!!!!! lOTS OF THEM. You guys can argue and
theorize all you want. But from a maintenance shop point of view. Run rich or
carry cylinders with you!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak --
somewhere in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming
IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when
running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Air
Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to
compensate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead
lubricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of
premature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different
than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's
something to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which
squirts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four
engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from
cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different
due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some other imbalance in the
air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of running
LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does cut
down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s when
running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run rich,
made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When money was
tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _cybersuperstore_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_BobsV35B(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com) writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <_nico(at)cybersuperstore.com_
(mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) >
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago. I
am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
===================================
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine and
installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then restart
them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He rarely had
to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to
squeeze every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends on it.
Does he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KenWHyde(at)aol.com writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP
on the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Yup, 25-50 deg is too lean. IGSO's require 100 deg.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:23:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com writes:
Interesting information by everyone. While I have detailed info for my
IGO-540's, available by cylinder, for EGT, CHT, Fuel flow, and
servo/distributor flow rate, the left can run LOP but the right can't without
running
rough. Why? I have err'd on the side of caution by just running ROP by 25 to
50 degrees as the fuel is MUCH cheaper than 2 more $$$$$$$ overhauls.
Failures to date have been valve centric, but a surprising amount of heat
damage in the pins, head, and heads was also noted. I like the idea, but I'd
like to hit TBO and the big geared LYC's seem to dislike the method... I
don't have a dog in the hunt regarding the the proven LOP methodology, but
betting my money has proven to be more than I can afford!
Craig
____________________________________
From: Keith S. Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wed, April 21, 2010 10:00:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak --
somewhere in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming
IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when
running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Air
Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to
compensate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead
lubricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of
premature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different
than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's
something to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which
squirts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four
engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from
cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different
due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some other imbalance in the
air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of running
LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does cut
down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s when
running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run rich,
made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When money was
tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _cybersuperstore_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_BobsV35B(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com) writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <_nico(at)cybersuperstore.com_
(mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) >
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago. I
am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com/_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
_ms.matronics.com/_ (http://ms.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
===================================
ator?Commander-List">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
ibution">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Forgot, you are right, we had better gas back then. If you follow the
Commander POH you will be running at peek. Lycoming does show LOP operation.
THEY ALSO SELL CYLINDERS!!!!!!!!!! lOTS OF THEM. You guys can argue and
theorize all you want. But from a maintenance shop point of view. Run rich or
carry cylinders with you!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak --
somewhere in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming
IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when
running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Air
Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to
compensate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead
lubricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of
premature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different
than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's
something to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which
squirts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four
engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from
cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different
due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some other imbalance in the
air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of running
LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does cut
down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s when
running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run rich,
made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When money was
tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _cybersuperstore_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_BobsV35B(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com) writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <_nico(at)cybersuperstore.com_
(mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) >
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago. I
am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
===================================
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
===================================
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Date: May 04, 2010
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Hey Gordon, I am at Simcom at Westwind school. Yes, I an going to be flyin
g one of those things again. My instructor is flying N300TC! Imagine that
!!!!!!!!!!
Gadzooks! It's a small world (but I'd hate to have to paint it).
On topic, I'm doing an R.O.N. at Fresno, California (KFAT) and have been
reminiscing about how this was where I did my first dual cross-country in
1974 ... the it was one of the points of my solo long cross country ...
and then as an instructor, I brought my students here for their first dua
l X-C (it's 100.5 nm from Watsonville!) and then I started flying in here
as a freight dog in an AeroCommander 680E in about 1978.
And when I got to Pago Pago in 1994, there was that very same 680E, in Int
er Island Air colors.
Now we need to examine why our careers are built upon out of production ai
rplanes.
Maybe it's because the out of production airplanes are so good ....
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 10:10 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey Gordon, I am at Simcom at Westwind school. Yes, I an going to be flyin
g one of those things again. My instructor is flying N300TC! Imagine that
!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cloudcraf
t(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak -- somew
here in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycom
ing IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves wh
en running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Ai
r Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to compe
nsate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead lu
bricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of pr
emature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far differen
t than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's so
mething to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era
of green colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which squi
rts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on al
l four engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in
EGT from cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixtur
e is different due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some othe
r imbalance in the air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am
a huge fan of running LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler.
This of course does cut down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered th
is out back in the '80s when running my top fuel dragster. When I had
some money the engine was run rich, made a lot of horsepower and consum
ed mountains of parts. When money was tight I simply ran it so lean tha
t it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: cybersuperstore
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a
good TBO. I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but th
eoretically, what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with
GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gu
dgeon pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatur
es not coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-
list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's
) and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Comma
nder manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates
that way goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100
ROP have little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it
, Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough
to justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know
every operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That
was a failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We
never ran lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BobsV35
B(at)aol.com writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but
I do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of
peak EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low
power settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observ
ed no harm at the time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over th
e last sixty years has convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you
have good distribution. The way I checked for good distribution befor
e modern engine analyzers were available was to lean for a power drop.
If the airplane could be slowed down about ten MPH via running on the
lean side with no roughness, I figured it was good enough to operate
LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done
so, I urge you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI.
If you can't attend in person, take the home study version, but going
with a group of pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was
a believer in the process before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whit
e_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After doubl
e clamping all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns
out those 10 cent cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being
used a couple of times. A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dolla
r a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt engines are running well. Need to dial
in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI folks and they have never don
e a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have the GEM CHT/EGT moni
tor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is going on pretty
well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet? The
idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issue
s. Annual time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The do
nor plane has been a big help with parts and bits. My pals have not
iced that the donor plane so far has been the best plane investment
in Commanders I've made to date! Not a lot of air time this year
due to work but I'm hoping the fall will see more action. I put 74
7H up for sale, but so far, it's all looky-loos....
Craig
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a ne
w desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails beca
use the mail server lost the data that told it which email messages
were already on my laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages
from more than a year ago. I am taking the opportunity to clean som
e of the trash out and sorting them back into their respected folder
s while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to wa
lk around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, whic
h I didn't thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and mov
e on. Tonight I saw this message from almost a year ago. I am almost
certain that I have seen 747H on the apron before, but cannot be su
re.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-comman
der-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored
for over a year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is
running again with rebuilt engines and props. Richard Cam at
Aeroquest did a great job getting all the problems sorted out.
Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining issues and she should
be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the annua
l get together.
Craig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
========================
===========
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
========================
===========
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
========================
===========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
========================
===========
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hours
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run beautifully
LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a couple of years
ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a jug, and
cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel delivery
method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive engines seem
custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine and
installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then restart
them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He rarely had
to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to squeeze
every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends on it. Does
he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KenWHyde(at)aol.com writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP on
the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ===================================
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Date: May 04, 2010
Folks,
I certainly concur about the IO-540.
Although in Pipers, not Commanders, and before GAMI, we operated a 260B
Comanche and two Aztec, all fitted with EGT on all cylinders, and ran LOP
based on the hottest cylinder. We also ran "Low RPM/High boost. We regularly
obtained around 3000h TBO, after a top at 1000h, which eliminated burning
valve seats.
The fuel saving are quite dramatic, for the same HP output, the cruise
altitudes usually meant that about 65% was all that was available.
The difference between "high rpm/low boost" and running ROP, and the reverse
plus LOP was the difference between a fuel flow in cruise of about 12.5 US
GPH per engine v. about 9 US GPH. For an engine like the IO-540, even the
oil looked different at a 50h oil/filter change, with LOP the oil was not a
black goo, but closer to the original colour of fresh oil. By definition,
running ROP or LOP is cooler than peak EGT, but as test cell and real world
experience has shown, to maximise the chance of detonation, run a mixture
about 50 degrees ROP.
There are some amazing old wife's tales about LOP, particularly from A&Ps.
We have even had the rubbish turn up, down here in AU, from the ATSB and as
Coroner's Courts evidence. One smarter than the average Coroner decided that
the only way to sort out the old wife's tales was to take his court to GAMI,
and commission actual test cell verification. This completely disproved
claims made in an ATSB report about a particular very controversial fatal.
This really upset the "lean to rough running, the rich until it smooths out"
brigade, who have no idea how variable the actual cylinder by cylinder
distribution is in an engine that only has "standard" injectors. For any
engine that can benefit from GAMIs, fitting them and a multi-point EGT, and
running LOP is a very positive investment in ensuring long and reliable
minimum cost life.
To tear down an LOP operated IO-540 at 2000h, and find that the first run
barrels are within limits to just deglaze and fit new rings helps make for a
minimum cost overhaul.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hours
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run beautifully
LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a couple of years
ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a jug, and
cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel delivery
method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive engines seem
custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine and
installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then restart
them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He rarely had
to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to squeeze
every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends on it. Does
he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KenWHyde(at)aol.com writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP on
the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ==========
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis...
nt>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
From: white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com
Date: May 04, 2010
Bill,
Do you use 50 ROP on coolest or hotest cylinder? Are you using CHT or EGT?
Craig
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 01:07:34
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Date: May 04, 2010
Bill=2C
What is your opnion as to mixture on my straight 500 with O540's??
Roland Gilliam AC 6291B
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Tue=2C 4 May 2010 01:15:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Forgot=2C you are right=2C we had better gas back then. If you follow the C
ommander POH you will be running at peek. Lycoming does show LOP operation.
THEY ALSO SELL CYLINDERS!!!!!!!!!! lOTS OF THEM. You guys can argue and th
eorize all you want. But from a maintenance shop point of view. Run rich or
carry cylinders with you!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C cloudcra
ft(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak -- somewher
e in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming IG
SO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when runnin
g LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name)=2C owner of Suburban Air
Freight=2C for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997)=2C we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to compensa
te for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead lubri
cated the valve guides=2C which Jay said was their greatest cause of premat
ure engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different t
han the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's somethin
g to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed=2C Apr 21=2C 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico=2C
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which squirts
directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well atomize
d and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four engi
nes that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from cyli
nder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different du
e to valve job=2C intake port configuration=2C or some other imbalance in t
he air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of runnin
g LOP=2C as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does c
ut down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s wh
en running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run
rich=2C made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When mon
ey was tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: cybersuperstore
Sent: Wednesday=2C April 21=2C 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill=2C
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the ch
eap side of peak=2C I still wonder=2C if one could manage each cylinder sep
arately such as with GAMI's=2C whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good
TBO. I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested=2C but theoretic
ally=2C what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more meat
" on the radial cylinders=2C that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat=2C right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday=2C April 21=2C 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys=2C I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that wa
y goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have l
ittle trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations=2C the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it
=2C Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said that
the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to justi
fy the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done eve
ry overhaul. Also=2C with the exception of about 200 hours I have know ever
y operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown=2C That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and am
still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C BobsV35B
@aol.com writes:
Good Morning Craig=2C
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old=2C but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak EG
T.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did occasi
onally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power setting
s and we did not have good instrumentation=2C but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were ava
ilable was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down a
bout ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness=2C I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert=2C but I did attend a course taught by Curt
iss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer=2C but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each cyli
nder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so=2C I u
rge you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person=2C take the home study version=2C but going with a group
of pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the
process before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies=2C
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove=2C Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time=2C white_r
hino_ps(at)yahoo.com writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been sortin
g out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping all
the connector tubes=2C thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt engin
es are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI fo
lks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is goi
ng on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet? T
he idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to replace
the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual time
with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a b
ig help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane so
far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date! N
ot a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will see
more action. I put 747H up for sale=2C but so far=2C it's all looky-loos.
...
Craig
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Sat=2C April 17=2C 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new deskt
op this past week. So=2C I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10=2C000+ messages from more than a year ago
. I am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting th
em back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk arou
nd to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H=2C which I didn't t
hing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before=2C but cannot be sure.
Craig=2C is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Monday=2C July 06=2C 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang=2C
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H=2C stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris =2C TX )=2C is running again with reb
uilt engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting a
ll the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for t
he annual get together.
Craig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matroni
cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=
==========ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.co
m========================
============tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution=============
======================= =
==========t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List===
========ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=
==========tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution===============
===================== http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H
otmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=
PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: FW: A great lady dies
Date: May 03, 2010
Subject: Fw: A great lady dies
Rest in Peace, and thank you, Mrs. Pamela Murphy.
Dennis McCarthy
Los Angeles Times on April 15, 2010
October 7, 1923 - April 8, 2010
Pamela Murphy, widow of WWII hero and actor, Audie Murphy, died
peacefully at her home on April 8, 2010. She is survived by sons, Terry
and James. Pam established her own distinctive 30 year career working as
a patient liaison at the Sepulveda VA Hospital, where she was much
beloved. Services will be held at Forest Lawn (Hollywood Hills) on
Friday April 16 at 2:30PM
<http://www.dailynews.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentIt
emRelationshipId=2961390>
http://www.dailynews.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentIte
mRelationshipId=2961390
Pam Murphy, the widow of Audie Murphy, was involved in the Sepulveda VA
hospital and care center over the course of 35 years, treating every
veteran who visited the facility as if they were a VIP. Pam Murphy died
last week at the age of 90.
After Audie died, they all became her boys. Every last one of them.
Any soldier or Marine who walked into the Sepulveda VA hospital and care
center in the last 35 years got the VIP treatment from Pam Murphy. The
widow of Audie Murphy =93 the most decorated soldier in World War
II =93 would walk the hallways with her clipboard in hand making
sure her boys got to see a specialist or doctor =94 STAT. If they
didn't, watch out. Her boys weren't Medal of Honor recipients or movie
stars like Audie, but that didn't matter to Pam. They had served their
country. That was good enough for her. She never called a veteran by his
first name. It was always "Mister." Respect came with the job. "Nobody
could cut through VA red tape faster than Mrs. Murphy," said veteran
Stephen Sherman, speaking for thousands of veterans she befriended over
the years. "Many times I watched her march a veteran who had been
waiting more than an hour right into the doctor's office. She was even
reprimanded a few times, but it didn't matter to Mrs. Murphy. "Only her
boys mattered. She was our angel."
Last week, Sepulveda VA's angel for the last 35 years died peacefully in
her sleep at age 90.
"She was in bed watching the Laker game, took one last breath, and
thatwas it," said Diane Ruiz, who also worked at the VA and cared for
Pam in the last years of her life in her Canoga Park apartment. It was
the same apartment Pam moved into soon after Audie died in a plane crash
on Memorial Day weekend in 1971. Audie Murphy died broke, squandering
million of dollars on gambling, bad investments, and yes, other women.
"Even with the adultery and desertion at the end, he always remained my
hero," Pam told me.
She went from a comfortable ranch-style home in Van Nuys where she
raised two sons to a small apartment - taking a clerk's job at the
nearby VA to support herself and start paying off her faded movie star
husband's debts. At first, no one knew who she was. Soon, though, word
spread through the VA that the nice woman with the clipboard was Audie
Murphy's widow. It was like saying Patton had just walked in the front
door. Men with tears in their eyes walked up to her and gave her a hug.
"Thank you," they said, over and over.
The first couple of years, I think the hugs were more for Audie's memory
as a war hero. The last 30 years, they were for Pam.
She hated the spotlight. One year I asked her to be the focus of a
Veteran's Day column for all the work she had done. Pam just shook her
head no. "Honor them, not me," she said, pointing to a group of
veterans down the hallway. "They're the ones who deserve it."
The vets disagreed. Mrs. Murphy deserved the accolades, they said.
Incredibly, in 2002, Pam's job was going to be eliminated in budget
cuts. She was considered "excess staff." "I don't think helping cut
down on veterans' complaints and showing them the respect they deserve,
should be considered excess staff," she told me. Neither did the
veterans. They went ballistic, holding a rally for her outside the VA
gates. Pretty soon, word came down from the top of the VA. Pam Murphy
was no longer considered "excess staff." She remained working full time
at the VA until 2007 when she was 87. "The last time she was here was a
couple of years ago for the conference we had for homeless veterans,"
said Becky James, coordinator of the VA's Veterans History Project.
Pam wanted to see if there was anything she could do to help some more
of her boys.
Dennis McCarthy's column appears Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday.
About Audie Murphy > http://www.warfoto.com/AudieMurphy.htm
=
<http://www.bandoo.com/wp/ie.php?plg=ie&ad2=0&subs=hotmail&elm=si
gn>
=EF=BB
<http://www.bandoo.com/wp/ie.php?plg=ie&ad2=0&subs=hotmail&elm=si
gn>
_____
<http://www.spamfighter.com/len> .
We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
The Professional version does not have this message.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: VIBRATION
Date: May 04, 2010
HARRY, DYNAMIC BALANCE OF THE 500B RT ENGINE DID THE TRICK. NOTE THERE
WAS A DIFFERENTIAL IN THE AMOUNT OF GREASE IN EACH BLADE HUB WHICH
CORRECTING HELPED.
IVE GOT ONE MORE PROBLEM ON THE RIGHT SIDE WHICH IS A PUZZLE . THE FUEL
FLOW METER INDICATES 150pct OF NORMAL FOR ANY GIVEN POWER SETTING. ITS
NOT THE METER AS I SWOPED LEFT WITH RIGHT AND THE PROBLEM FOLLOWED TO
THE LEFT FLOW METER. ANY IDEAS WILL BE APPRECIATED. THANKS,LLOYD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: VIBRATION
Date: May 05, 2010
Take out the injectors and have thim cleaned1
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: lloyd silverman
To: commander-list
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:37 PM
Subject: Commander-List: VIBRATION
HARRY, DYNAMIC BALANCE OF THE 500B RT ENGINE DID THE TRICK. NOTE THERE
WAS A DIFFERENTIAL IN THE AMOUNT OF GREASE IN EACH BLADE HUB WHICH
CORRECTING HELPED.
IVE GOT ONE MORE PROBLEM ON THE RIGHT SIDE WHICH IS A PUZZLE . THE
FUEL FLOW METER INDICATES 150pct OF NORMAL FOR ANY GIVEN POWER SETTING.
ITS NOT THE METER AS I SWOPED LEFT WITH RIGHT AND THE PROBLEM FOLLOWED
TO THE LEFT FLOW METER. ANY IDEAS WILL BE APPRECIATED. THANKS,LLOYD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
That is a carbureted engine. I I would run it 50-75 deg. rich.
50 if it is smooth.
Bill
In a message dated 5/4/2010 10:18:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
amg3636(at)hotmail.com writes:
Bill,
What is your opnion as to mixture on my straight 500 with O540's??
Roland Gilliam AC 6291B
____________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 01:15:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Forgot, you are right, we had better gas back then. If you follow the
Commander POH you will be running at peek. Lycoming does show LOP operation.
THEY ALSO SELL CYLINDERS!!!!!!!!!! lOTS OF THEM. You guys can argue and
theorize all you want. But from a maintenance shop point of view. Run rich or
carry cylinders with you!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 1:02:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cloudcraft(at)aol.com writes:
Lycoming definitely advocated running the IGSO-540 Lean of Peak --
somewhere in the diaspora of Commander stuff in my garage I have an old Lycoming
IGSO-540 operator's manual that shows the temperature-drop curves when
running LoP.
When I was interviewing Jay (forgot his last name), owner of Suburban Air
Freight, for an article in an early Flight Group News (circa 1997), we
discussed how they operated their fleet of AC-680-FLs.
They ran Rich of Peak -- not because of engine cooling: It was to
compensate for low lead AvGas.
The engine was designed around a high lead content fuel and that lead
lubricated the valve guides, which Jay said was their greatest cause of
premature engine removal when running LoP.
Here we have an argument for running RoP based on something far different
than the engine temperature / heat dissipation controversy. That's
something to consider if you're running the older engines born in the era of green
colored AvGas.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Nico,
Due to the fact that the IGSO540 has only one injector nozzle which
squirts directly into the supercharger impeller the mixture is pretty well
atomized and even from cylinder to cylinder (at least it has been on all four
engines that have been in my plane). If there is a difference in EGT from
cylinder is is most likely because the flow or air fuel mixture is different
due to valve job, intake port configuration, or some other imbalance in the
air fuel mixture flow rate from cyl. to cyl. I am a huge fan of running
LOP, as the cylinder head temps are much cooler. This of course does cut
down on the horsepower. I sort of figgered this out back in the '80s when
running my top fuel dragster. When I had some money the engine was run rich,
made a lot of horsepower and consumed mountains of parts. When money was
tight I simply ran it so lean that it couldn't hurt its self.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _cybersuperstore_ (mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
As someone who hasn't yet come to terms with pulling the mixtures to the
cheap side of peak, I still wonder, if one could manage each cylinder
separately such as with GAMI's, whether the IGSO-540's would sustain a good TBO.
I realize it might not be practical as GAMI suggested, but theoretically,
what would prevent these engines from working well LOP with GAMI's?
I assume when you say that the Wright and P&W engines have "a lot more
meat" on the radial cylinders, that there is more aluminum above the gudgeon
pin to dissipate or handle the heat, right? But are the temperatures not
coming down when running LOP?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hey guys, I have been flying IGSO-540's and IGO-540's ( I own 2 560F's )
and I would not even consider operating LOP. If you fly per the Commander
manual you will be operating at peek. Everyone I know that operates that way
goes through a lot of cylinders. The operators that fly 50-100 ROP have
little trouble. Fuel is Cheep!
As far as LOP operations, the P&W and Wright engines are designed for it,
Lycomings are not. There is a lot more meat on the radial cylinders.
I spoke with the folks at GAMI about injectors for the 560F. They said
that the IGO-540 fuel and induction system could not be improve enough to
justify the expense.
One of my 560F's has over 7000 hours on it and the same person has done
every overhaul. Also, with the exception of about 200 hours I have know every
operator of the aircraft. It has had one in flight shutdown, That was a
failed valve in the #1 cylinder and the engine was near TBO. We never ran
lean.
Oddly enough I started flying this 560F in 1971. In 1994 I bought it and
am still flying it. What a great airplane!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/18/2010 8:31:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_BobsV35B(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B(at)aol.com) writes:
Good Morning Craig,
My experience with any Aero Commander is now over fifty years old, but I
do have a LOT of time operating various engines on the lean side of peak
EGT.
Back when I was flying early Aero Commanders and Twin Bonanzas I did
occasionally run those engines on the lean side. It was only at low power
settings and we did not have good instrumentation, but I observed no harm at the
time. Further knowledge that I have acquired over the last sixty years has
convinced me that LOP is the way to go IF you have good distribution. The
way I checked for good distribution before modern engine analyzers were
available was to lean for a power drop. If the airplane could be slowed down
about ten MPH via running on the lean side with no roughness, I figured it
was good enough to operate LOP.
I am certainly no engine expert, but I did attend a course taught by
Curtiss Wright engineers in the spring of 1954.
They made the same points that are now presented by the GAMI folks.
I am a believer, but you HAVE to find a method of assuring that each
cylinder is operating at the proper mixture. If you have not yet done so, I urge
you to attend one of the seminars held by folks from GAMI. If you can't
attend in person, take the home study version, but going with a group of
pilots is a lot more fun. (Been there twice and I was a believer in the process
before the folks at GAMI were born! )
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 4/18/2010 12:37:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com) writes:
Sure is Nico. Just brought it up from San Diego last weekend. Been
sorting out leaky new fuel cells and the usual squawks. After double clamping
all the connector tubes, thought I had it whipped. Turns out those 10 cent
cork access hole gaskets were leaking after being used a couple of times.
A trip to Napa finally stopped the 5 dollar a gallon drip!!! Rebuilt
engines are running well. Need to dial in the injectors. Talked to the GAMI
folks and they have never done a IGO-540. Could be useful as I already have
the GEM CHT/EGT monitor and the JPI dual fuel flow so I can see what is
going on pretty well. Has anyone in the gang had experience with this yet?
The idea of running them 50 degrees LOP makes me cringe!
Annual coming late summer so I'm collecting the bits now. I need to
replace the aux fuel valves and that should finish with those issues. Annual
time with the nacelles down is the time for that! The donor plane has been a
big help with parts and bits. My pals have noticed that the donor plane
so far has been the best plane investment in Commanders I've made to date!
Not a lot of air time this year due to work but I'm hoping the fall will
see more action. I put 747H up for sale, but so far, it's all
looky-loos....
Craig
____________________________________
From: cybersuperstore <_nico(at)cybersuperstore.com_
(mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com) >
Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 8:03:00 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
I lost my Outlook on my laptop and had to restore everything to a new
desktop this past week. So, I am going through all the emails because the mail
server lost the data that told it which email messages were already on my
laptop and started downloading 10,000+ messages from more than a year ago.
I am taking the opportunity to clean some of the trash out and sorting them
back into their respected folders while I am at it.
Yesterday I stopped over at Camarillo airport for a coffee and to walk
around to see if I see familiar planes. And there was N747H, which I didn't
thing anything of except to gawk into the windows and move on. Tonight I saw
this message from almost a year ago. I am almost certain that I have seen
747H on the apron before, but cannot be sure.
Craig, is she still under your command?
Thanks
Nico
____________________________________
From: _owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
craig kennedy
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commanders
Hello gang,
Just thought I would update the group that 560F N747H, stored for over a
year in the middle of nowhere ( Paris , TX ), is running again with rebuilt
engines and props. Richard Cam at Aeroquest did a great job getting all
the problems sorted out. Just a few more days to tidy up the remaining
issues and she should be up for fun and adventure. Maybe even a trip for the
annual get together.
Craig
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
==========
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
==========
===================================
t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
==========
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c)
==========
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
==========
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution
____________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with
Hotmail. _Get busy._
(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Ever hear of Max Conrad. He set many world distance records in a Comanche
and Twin Comanche running over square. He would run 1500 rpm and all the
MP
he could get up to 24 inches. The only thing was he had to rely on Lycomin
g
to calculate the BMEP for him. It was very critical. Don't remember if he
ran LOP. I doubt it.
Bill
In a message dated 5/4/2010 4:39:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au writes:
Folks,
I certainly concur about the IO-540.
Although in Pipers, not Commanders, and before GAMI, we operated a 260B
Comanche and two Aztec, all fitted with EGT on all cylinders, and ran LOP
based on the hottest cylinder. We also ran =9CLow RPM/High boost.
We regularly
obtained around 3000h TBO, after a top at 1000h, which eliminated burning
valve seats.
The fuel saving are quite dramatic, for the same HP output, the cruise
altitudes usually meant that about 65% was all that was available.
The difference between =9Chigh rpm/low boost=9D and running
ROP, and the
reverse plus LOP was the difference between a fuel flow in cruise of abou
t 12.5
US GPH per engine v. about 9 US GPH. For an engine like the IO-540, even
the oil looked different at a 50h oil/filter change, with LOP the oil was
not a black goo, but closer to the original colour of fresh oil. By
definition, running ROP or LOP is cooler than peak EGT, but as test cell
and real
world experience has shown, to maximise the chance of detonation, run a
mixture about 50 degrees ROP.
There are some amazing old wife=99s tales about LOP, particularly
from A&Ps.
We have even had the rubbish turn up, down here in AU, from the ATSB and
as Coroner=99s Courts evidence. One smarter than the average Corone
r decided
that the only way to sort out the old wife=99s tales was to take hi
s court to
GAMI, and commission actual test cell verification. This completely
disproved claims made in an ATSB report about a particular very controver
sial
fatal.
This really upset the =9Clean to rough running, the rich until it
smooths out
=9D brigade, who have no idea how variable the actual cylinder by
cylinder
distribution is in an engine that only has =9Cstandard=9D inje
ctors. For any
engine that can benefit from GAMIs, fitting them and a multi-point EGT, an
d
running LOP is a very positive investment in ensuring long and reliable
minimum cost life.
To tear down an LOP operated IO-540 at 2000h, and find that the first run
barrels are within limits to just deglaze and fit new rings helps make fo
r
a minimum cost overhaul.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vorm
baum
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hou
rs
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number
of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run
beautifully LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a co
uple of
years ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a jug
,
and cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel deliver
y
method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive engines
seem custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, <_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
>
wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine
and installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then
restart them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He
rarely
had to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause
a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to
squeeze every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends
on it.
Does he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_KenWHyde(at)aol.com_ (mailto:KenWHyde(at)aol.com) writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP
on the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ==========
> t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis._
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis.) ..
nt>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2010
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Good Morning Bill,
Funny you should mention Max.
We worked together for a short period of time when he was involved with a
couple of other folks operating an FBO at Joliet, Illinois. We called it
Max
Conrad Aviation.
We had many discussions as to how he operated in that long range cruise
operation and it was always on the lean side IF good distribution could be
obtained.
He used a procedure similar to what I have advocated in that he would see
how much airspeed he could lose before things got rough. With perfect
distribution you can lean down until all cylinders quit firing and you wil
l know
that, at that particular power setting, you have perfect distribution. If
the engine gets rough before the airspeed drops, distribution stinks. If
while leaning you get a small increase in airspeed then a drop of ten MPH
before the onset of roughness, distribution is pretty good.
Max did a lot of experimentation using carburetor heat and other modes to
find a point of good distribution. He did know enough about engines to
realize that maximum power for any certain airflow was obtained at some
point
slightly richer than what we now call LOP. In those days, we did not have
EGT
gauges and we worked in reference to best power.
As has been mentioned here often, best power comes well rich of peak EGT.
The absolutely hottest place you can run any cylinder is fifty rich of pea
k.
At 65 percent power or below, that is fine. At a higher power you are
pushing the engine very close to a bad operating range.
When fuel distribution is bad, one cylinder may be at peak EGT, another
might be running lean of peak EGT and another well rich of peak EGT.
If distribution is bad and you really need the power, the engine should be
run at least 150 rich of peak EGT. That will assure that all cylinders ar
e
getting enough fuel for the power desired.
If you are looking for maximum range, as Max was, you tried to run on the
lean side when at all practical. Max had it worked out where he could almo
st
always run well lean of what we would now call LOP.
I always enjoyed talking to Max about lean side operations because he was
one of the few pilots of that era who understood what we were doing and wh
at
were the problems that could be encountered.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 5/5/2010 1:35:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
BillLeff1(at)aol.com writes:
Ever hear of Max Conrad. He set many world distance records in a Comanche
and Twin Comanche running over square. He would run 1500 rpm and all the
MP
he could get up to 24 inches. The only thing was he had to rely on Lycomin
g
to calculate the BMEP for him. It was very critical. Don't remember if he
ran LOP. I doubt it.
Bill
In a message dated 5/4/2010 4:39:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au writes:
Folks,
I certainly concur about the IO-540.
Although in Pipers, not Commanders, and before GAMI, we operated a 260B
Comanche and two Aztec, all fitted with EGT on all cylinders, and ran LOP
based on the hottest cylinder. We also ran =9CLow RPM/High boost.
We regularly
obtained around 3000h TBO, after a top at 1000h, which eliminated burning
valve seats.
The fuel saving are quite dramatic, for the same HP output, the cruise
altitudes usually meant that about 65% was all that was available.
The difference between =9Chigh rpm/low boost=9D and running
ROP, and the
reverse plus LOP was the difference between a fuel flow in cruise of abou
t 12.5
US GPH per engine v. about 9 US GPH. For an engine like the IO-540, even
the oil looked different at a 50h oil/filter change, with LOP the oil was
not a black goo, but closer to the original colour of fresh oil. By
definition, running ROP or LOP is cooler than peak EGT, but as test cell
and real
world experience has shown, to maximise the chance of detonation, run a
mixture about 50 degrees ROP.
There are some amazing old wife=99s tales about LOP, particularly
from A&Ps.
We have even had the rubbish turn up, down here in AU, from the ATSB and
as Coroner=99s Courts evidence. One smarter than the average Corone
r decided
that the only way to sort out the old wife=99s tales was to take hi
s court to
GAMI, and commission actual test cell verification. This completely
disproved claims made in an ATSB report about a particular very controver
sial
fatal.
This really upset the =9Clean to rough running, the rich until it
smooths out
=9D brigade, who have no idea how variable the actual cylinder by
cylinder
distribution is in an engine that only has =9Cstandard=9D inje
ctors. For any
engine that can benefit from GAMIs, fitting them and a multi-point EGT, an
d
running LOP is a very positive investment in ensuring long and reliable
minimum cost life.
To tear down an LOP operated IO-540 at 2000h, and find that the first run
barrels are within limits to just deglaze and fit new rings helps make for
a minimum cost overhaul.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vorm
baum
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hou
rs
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number
of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run
beautifully LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a
couple of
years ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a ju
g,
and cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel
delivery method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive
engines
seem custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, <_BillLeff1(at)aol.com_ (mailto:BillLeff1(at)aol.com)
>
wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine
and installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then
restart them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He
rarely
had to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause
a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to
squeeze every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends
on it.
Does he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_KenWHyde(at)aol.com_ (mailto:KenWHyde(at)aol.com) writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP
on the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ==========
> t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis._
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis.) ..
nt>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
========================
============
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =========
========================
===
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Date: May 05, 2010
I found this about Max. I just had to know more about him:
http://soloflights.org/conrad_data_e.html
Very interesting reading. There are links across the top of the page that
contain more of the flights themselves.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Good Morning Bill,
Funny you should mention Max.
We worked together for a short period of time when he was involved with a
couple of other folks operating an FBO at Joliet, Illinois. We called it Max
Conrad Aviation.
We had many discussions as to how he operated in that long range cruise
operation and it was always on the lean side IF good distribution could be
obtained.
He used a procedure similar to what I have advocated in that he would see
how much airspeed he could lose before things got rough. With perfect
distribution you can lean down until all cylinders quit firing and you will
know that, at that particular power setting, you have perfect distribution.
If the engine gets rough before the airspeed drops, distribution stinks. If
while leaning you get a small increase in airspeed then a drop of ten MPH
before the onset of roughness, distribution is pretty good.
Max did a lot of experimentation using carburetor heat and other modes to
find a point of good distribution. He did know enough about engines to
realize that maximum power for any certain airflow was obtained at some
point slightly richer than what we now call LOP. In those days, we did not
have EGT gauges and we worked in reference to best power.
As has been mentioned here often, best power comes well rich of peak EGT.
The absolutely hottest place you can run any cylinder is fifty rich of peak.
At 65 percent power or below, that is fine. At a higher power you are
pushing the engine very close to a bad operating range.
When fuel distribution is bad, one cylinder may be at peak EGT, another
might be running lean of peak EGT and another well rich of peak EGT.
If distribution is bad and you really need the power, the engine should be
run at least 150 rich of peak EGT. That will assure that all cylinders are
getting enough fuel for the power desired.
If you are looking for maximum range, as Max was, you tried to run on the
lean side when at all practical. Max had it worked out where he could almost
always run well lean of what we would now call LOP.
I always enjoyed talking to Max about lean side operations because he was
one of the few pilots of that era who understood what we were doing and what
were the problems that could be encountered.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 5/5/2010 1:35:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
BillLeff1(at)aol.com writes:
Ever hear of Max Conrad. He set many world distance records in a Comanche
and Twin Comanche running over square. He would run 1500 rpm and all the MP
he could get up to 24 inches. The only thing was he had to rely on Lycoming
to calculate the BMEP for him. It was very critical. Don't remember if he
ran LOP. I doubt it.
Bill
In a message dated 5/4/2010 4:39:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au writes:
Folks,
I certainly concur about the IO-540.
Although in Pipers, not Commanders, and before GAMI, we operated a 260B
Comanche and two Aztec, all fitted with EGT on all cylinders, and ran LOP
based on the hottest cylinder. We also ran "Low RPM/High boost. We regularly
obtained around 3000h TBO, after a top at 1000h, which eliminated burning
valve seats.
The fuel saving are quite dramatic, for the same HP output, the cruise
altitudes usually meant that about 65% was all that was available.
The difference between "high rpm/low boost" and running ROP, and the reverse
plus LOP was the difference between a fuel flow in cruise of about 12.5 US
GPH per engine v. about 9 US GPH. For an engine like the IO-540, even the
oil looked different at a 50h oil/filter change, with LOP the oil was not a
black goo, but closer to the original colour of fresh oil. By definition,
running ROP or LOP is cooler than peak EGT, but as test cell and real world
experience has shown, to maximise the chance of detonation, run a mixture
about 50 degrees ROP.
There are some amazing old wife's tales about LOP, particularly from A&Ps.
We have even had the rubbish turn up, down here in AU, from the ATSB and as
Coroner's Courts evidence. One smarter than the average Coroner decided that
the only way to sort out the old wife's tales was to take his court to GAMI,
and commission actual test cell verification. This completely disproved
claims made in an ATSB report about a particular very controversial fatal.
This really upset the "lean to rough running, the rich until it smooths out"
brigade, who have no idea how variable the actual cylinder by cylinder
distribution is in an engine that only has "standard" injectors. For any
engine that can benefit from GAMIs, fitting them and a multi-point EGT, and
running LOP is a very positive investment in ensuring long and reliable
minimum cost life.
To tear down an LOP operated IO-540 at 2000h, and find that the first run
barrels are within limits to just deglaze and fit new rings helps make for a
minimum cost overhaul.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hours
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run beautifully
LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a couple of years
ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a jug, and
cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel delivery
method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive engines seem
custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine and
installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then restart
them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He rarely had
to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to squeeze
every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends on it. Does
he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KenWHyde(at)aol.com writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP on
the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ==========
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis...
nt>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Now Operating LOP
Date: May 05, 2010
Wouldn't he run the risk of pre-ignition (detonation?) on 1500 x 24"?
Although lower RPM would result in less fuel flow because less air is
pumped, it does sound extreme. Even though Lycoming calculated the BMEP,
one's hair still tends to stand on end.
Interesting, though.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Ever hear of Max Conrad. He set many world distance records in a Comanche
and Twin Comanche running over square. He would run 1500 rpm and all the MP
he could get up to 24 inches. The only thing was he had to rely on Lycoming
to calculate the BMEP for him. It was very critical. Don't remember if he
ran LOP. I doubt it.
Bill
In a message dated 5/4/2010 4:39:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au writes:
Folks,
I certainly concur about the IO-540.
Although in Pipers, not Commanders, and before GAMI, we operated a 260B
Comanche and two Aztec, all fitted with EGT on all cylinders, and ran LOP
based on the hottest cylinder. We also ran "Low RPM/High boost. We regularly
obtained around 3000h TBO, after a top at 1000h, which eliminated burning
valve seats.
The fuel saving are quite dramatic, for the same HP output, the cruise
altitudes usually meant that about 65% was all that was available.
The difference between "high rpm/low boost" and running ROP, and the reverse
plus LOP was the difference between a fuel flow in cruise of about 12.5 US
GPH per engine v. about 9 US GPH. For an engine like the IO-540, even the
oil looked different at a 50h oil/filter change, with LOP the oil was not a
black goo, but closer to the original colour of fresh oil. By definition,
running ROP or LOP is cooler than peak EGT, but as test cell and real world
experience has shown, to maximise the chance of detonation, run a mixture
about 50 degrees ROP.
There are some amazing old wife's tales about LOP, particularly from A&Ps.
We have even had the rubbish turn up, down here in AU, from the ATSB and as
Coroner's Courts evidence. One smarter than the average Coroner decided that
the only way to sort out the old wife's tales was to take his court to GAMI,
and commission actual test cell verification. This completely disproved
claims made in an ATSB report about a particular very controversial fatal.
This really upset the "lean to rough running, the rich until it smooths out"
brigade, who have no idea how variable the actual cylinder by cylinder
distribution is in an engine that only has "standard" injectors. For any
engine that can benefit from GAMIs, fitting them and a multi-point EGT, and
running LOP is a very positive investment in ensuring long and reliable
minimum cost life.
To tear down an LOP operated IO-540 at 2000h, and find that the first run
barrels are within limits to just deglaze and fit new rings helps make for a
minimum cost overhaul.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Was : Re: Commander-List: Now Operating LOP
Hi Bill,
I've had many conversations with John about how he runs his airplanes. I
recall that he is a fan of LOP operations. He averages several hundred hours
beyond TBO for all his engines, and saves gas money in the process. His
airplanes seem to run very well and he's never mentioned an undue number of
replacement cylinders.
Incidentally, my "old" engine, which is at TBO, has always run beautifully
LOP. My "new" engine, which was mid-time, never did...and a couple of years
ago, after a decade running it ROP, it broke a ring, burned up a jug, and
cracked the case, leading to an OH.
My B model is turbonormalized and I cruise at 75% power. I'm a big fan of
LOP operations, as the happy-lean engine seems to support. I'll be getting
GAMIs for both engines soon.
The IGSO-540 series may not be a candidate for LOP due to its fuel delivery
method and higher stress condition, but the IO-540 direct drive engines seem
custom made for it.
Cheers,
John
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On May 3, 2010 10:59 PM, wrote:
Hey, Ken, While I am not a fan of LOP operations, If there is an engine and
installation it might work on it would be the 500B/U/S. With proper
baffling, those engines run so cool heat is not a problem.
That is why Bob Hoover could cut his engines at full power and then restart
them and immediately go back to full power for his air show. He rarely had
to change cylinders. They just never got hot enough to crack.
However, those airplanes need all the power they can get. LOP may cause a
power loss that is un acceptable reduction of speed.
Wonder how John Towner operates his flock (30+ aircraft) ? He has to squeeze
every nickel out of his aircraft because his livelihood depends on it. Does
he prefer to spend money on fuel or engines?
Bill Leff
In a message dated 4/22/2010 9:15:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
KenWHyde(at)aol.com writes:
Know this is about the IGSO540 & IGO540 but what are the thoughts of LOP on
the narrow deck IO540's??
Thanks,
Ken
>
> ==========
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Lis...
nt>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: VIBRATION
Date: May 05, 2010
THANKS,LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Merritt<mailto:avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: VIBRATION
Take out the injectors and have thim cleaned1
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: lloyd silverman<mailto:LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
To: commander-list
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:37 PM
Subject: Commander-List: VIBRATION
HARRY, DYNAMIC BALANCE OF THE 500B RT ENGINE DID THE TRICK. NOTE
THERE WAS A DIFFERENTIAL IN THE AMOUNT OF GREASE IN EACH BLADE HUB WHICH
CORRECTING HELPED.
IVE GOT ONE MORE PROBLEM ON THE RIGHT SIDE WHICH IS A PUZZLE . THE
FUEL FLOW METER INDICATES 150pct OF NORMAL FOR ANY GIVEN POWER SETTING.
ITS NOT THE METER AS I SWOPED LEFT WITH RIGHT AND THE PROBLEM FOLLOWED
TO THE LEFT FLOW METER. ANY IDEAS WILL BE APPRECIATED. THANKS,LLOYD
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: FUEL FLOW PROBLEM IN 500B
Date: May 06, 2010
HARRY, THE FUEL FLOWMETER PROBLEM IN THE RT ENGINE OF MY 500 B WAS
TRACED TO A FRACTURED DIAPHRAM IN THE FUEL SPIDER.
DO YOU HAVE ONE OR WHERE CAN I GET ONE. THANKS, LLOYD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Date: May 07, 2010
Welcome Guest ( Log
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=L
ogin&CODE=00> In | Register
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=R
eg&CODE=00> )
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470?utm_source=may_newsletter
&utm_medium=email_asb&utm_term=&utm_content=f_105&utm_campaign=article5##>
[X]
My Assistant
Loading. Please Wait...Loading. Please Wait...
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470?utm_source=may_newsletter
&utm_medium=email_asb&utm_term=&utm_content=f_105&utm_campaign=article5##> X
Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)
>
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=i
dx> ASB.TV Community >
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showf
orum=1> AirShowBuzz.com Community >
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showf
orum=13> Buzz-Worthy
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=p
ost&do=reply_post&f=13&t=8470> Reply to this topic
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=p
ost&do=new_post&f=13> Start new topic
> Collings Foundation needs YOUR help to return F-105 to the sky!
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470?utm_source=may_newsletter
&utm_medium=email_asb&utm_term=&utm_content=f_105&utm_campaign=article5#topi
coptions#topicoptions> Options V
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=u
sercp&CODE=start_subs&method=topic&tid=8470> Track this topic
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=F
orward&f=13&t=8470> Email this topic
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=P
rint&client=printer&f=13&t=8470> Print this topic
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=P
rint&client=choose&f=13&t=8470> Download this topic
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=u
sercp&CODE=start_subs&method=forum&fid=13> Subscribe to this forum
Display Modes
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showt
opic=8470&mode=threaded> Switch to: Outline
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showt
opic=8470&mode=linear> Standard
V
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showt
opic=8470&mode=linearplus> Switch to: Linear+
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=502> MKopack
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=502> View Member Profile
postMay 2 2010, 04:21 PM
Post
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470&view=findpost&p=160731>
#1
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=502>
Advanced Member
***
Group: Members
Posts: 1,043
Joined: 6-February 07
From: Raleigh, NC
Member No.: 502
OK folks, I'm making the command decision to move this up to "Buzz-Worthy"
so it gets more exposure.
The Collings Foundation needs your help this week to make this happen.
QUOTE
We are trying to return an F-105 to flying condition. Representative Niki
Tsongas (D-MA) has introduced legislation now being consider by House Armed
Services Committee to transfer an F-105 to the Collings Foundation. There
are 15 Medal of Honor winners and 120 former POW's who support this in
addition to all us rank and file folks.
We would appreciate your help, call Chairman Ike Skelton, Chairman of the
House Armed Services Committee, and tell Chairman Skelton's staff that you
want to be on record in support of Congresswomen Tsongas' Amendment to
transfer the F-105 to the Collings foundation. Call 202-225-2876 and voice
your support. The decision will be made this coming week.
Details and other information at:
http://collingsfoundation.org/enews/enewsletter_105.2010.htm
According to Medal of Honor recipient and 6-year Prisoner of War Colonel Leo
Thorsness (ret), "It is one thing to see "my" aircraft mounted on a pole or
gathering dust in a museum, quite another to see it roar down the runway and
take to the sky."
I asked my friend Ed - a 100 Missions F-105 over North Vietnam patch wearer
- what was the fastest he'd seen coming off a target clean. Here is his
response:
QUOTE
The fastest I can remember coming off a target was seeing 750 knots
indicated which is about 860 MPH. That wasn't "clean" however. I still had a
pair of 450 gallon tanks, outboard pylons and the c/l MER. Typically we
would be running about 600 knots indicated inbound and planning to rejoin
off the target at 450 and head outbound at about 540. Those were very
comfortable speeds in the jet which was rock-steady at high speed and low
altitude. None of this was in A/B!!!!
Who out there wouldn't want to walk into an airshow and see this ready to
taxi? It's big, it's loud, it's fast, and it's bad. This ain't no sissy
little fly-by-wire electric ballerina stealth jet. This is a heavyweight
middle linebacker with a bad attitude, missing a couple of teeth, ready and
willing to go anywhere and take on anything - right in their face. Route
Pack VI? Hell yes, been there, let's go again.
This is the F-105 Thunderchief!
Reduced 42%
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=a
ttach&type=post&id=54052> Attached Image
1024 x 733 (225.28K)
Of 833 F-105's built, 382 were lost in Southeast Asia.
It seems like the least we could to to put one more of these birds back up
in the air as a tribute to those who originally flew her - and to the many
who never made it home.
I have no connections with the Collings Foundation at all, other than being
a fan of the history that they share with us at airshows and airport visits,
but with a little bit of effort we can all help make this happen. All it
will take is a couple of phone calls from as many people that we can get.
Time is of the essence though, the decision WILL be made THIS WEEK in
Washington.
Mike Kopack
--------------------
mkopack@lucky-devils.net > Phantom Productions Aviation Photography
<http://www.lucky-devils.net>
Go to the top of the page
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470?utm_source=may_newsletter
&utm_medium=email_asb&utm_term=&utm_content=f_105&utm_campaign=article5##> +
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=P
ost&CODE=02&f=13&t=8470&qpid=160731> Quote Post
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=2193> Perriwen
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=2193> View Member Profile
postMay 2 2010, 09:33 PM
Post
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470&view=findpost&p=160761>
#2
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&showu
ser=2193>
Advanced Member
***
Group: Members
Posts: 544
Joined: 27-May 07
From: Tomball, TX
Member No.: 2,193
Here's hoping..
Go to the top of the page
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?showtopic=8470?utm_source=may_newsletter
&utm_medium=email_asb&utm_term=&utm_content=f_105&utm_campaign=article5##> +
<http://www.asb.tv/forums/index.php?s=19f5ee3489ff4c67d680730ef66b50e7&act=P
ost&CODE=02&f=13&t=8470&qpid=160761> Quote Post
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Jim Addington's mother
Date: May 10, 2010
Commanderland;
I'm sure yesterday was a sad Mother's Day for Jim Addington. On
Thursday his 90 year old mother passed away.
Jim is one of our own, if any of you wish to contact him personally, his
email is jtaddington(at)verizon.net .
God Bless, Don
Viola Mae Wright Addington Rodolph, 90 of Denton, Texas passed away
Thursday, May 6, 2010 at her residence, Lake Forest Good Samaritan in
Denton.
Viola Mae Wright was born in Springfield, Colorado, October 9, 1919, to
Effie Pearl Tandy and Ross Allison Wright. She married James T.
Addington in 1936. They had one son, James T. Addington, Jr. Viola
married Joe W. Rodolph October 11, 1962, in Ardmore, Oklahoma. He
preceded her in death July 21, 2004.
Viola and Joe lived in Ardmore Oklahoma. Due to Joe's work they lived in
Vernal Utah, Bakersfield California, and Woodward Oklahoma before
settling in Corpus Christi, Texas. After Joe's death Viola moved to
Denton, Texas to be near her son James and his family. She and Joe loved
to travel. During their travels, they pursued their interest in history
by visiting state capitols and historical markers along the way. As
members of the First Baptist Church in Corpus Christi they belonged to
the Baptist Church Hammer Slammers, traveling in their travel trailer to
build churches from the ground up, in the South Texas area. Viola
expressed her creative side in the flower shop she owned while living in
Vernal Utah. She continued her love of flowers and plants while living
in Corpus Christi with her garden. She loved to paint landscapes, sew
and was an amazing cook. Everything she did was done very well.
A memorial service celebrating Viola's life will be held at Gateway
United Baptist Church, 2401 N. Bell Avenue, Denton Texas, Tuesday, May
11, 2010 at 11:00 A.M. with Buddy Owens, Minister, officiating. A
private family burial will precede the service at Roselawn Memorial Park
in Denton.
The family wishes to thank Dr. Scott Simms, All Our Hearts caregivers,
Accolade Home Health Care and Good Samaritan Lake Forest.
Mrs. Rodolph is survived by sons, James T. Addington of Denton, Larry
Rodolph(Averil) of Angel Fire New Mexico, daughters, JoDean Weaver(Gene)
of Frisco, Texas and Linda Billings of Atlanta, Georgia, brothers, Sam
Bruce Wright (Jean) and Tandy Allison Wright all of Corpus Christi,
Texas. Grandchildren, Amanda Addington, Kim Woodruff, Grant
Rodolph(Jenifer), Stacy Rodolph, Denise Cannefax(Alan) and Dagney
Duck(Brandon). Great grandchildren, Caroline Kirkpatrick, Hunter
Woodruff, Makenna and Whitney Rodolph, Conner and Lily Cannefax, Addison
and Ainsley Duck and numerous nieces and nephews.
She is preceded in death by her parents Effie Tandy and Ross Wright,
husband Joe Rodolph, sister Dahlia Wright Rhyne and daughter-in-law
Carol Lynn Addington.
In lieu of flowers memorials may be made to Cumberland Presbyterian
Children's Home or Denton Christian Preschool.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: This'll bend your mind
Date: May 13, 2010
Very well done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI&NR=1> &NR=1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com" <kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com>
Subject: Re: This'll bend your XXXX wing... :)
Date: May 14, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gWEi_TNKoI
ET
cybersuperstore writes:
> Very well done.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI&NR=1> &NR=1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: This'll bend your XXXX wing... :)
Date: May 14, 2010
Wow!
That's too close for my style, thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: This'll bend your XXXX wing... :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gWEi_TNKoI
ET
cybersuperstore writes:
> Very well done.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvNKA-E3zI&NR=1> &NR=1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Different type of "Commanders"
Date: May 16, 2010
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE1rE2vxUyM&NR=1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: First Book: Where Vultures Roost on Sale
Date: May 17, 2010
If anybody is interested the publisher of my first book "Where Vultures
Roost" is offering a 55% discount and free shipping within the USA on
all books until Wednesday. "Where Vultures Roost" is the book which
features the Shrike Commander. Usual cost is $19.95; shipping is usually
$2.99 within the USA. Order here:
http://www.publishamerica.net/product3239.html and put in the coupon
code NoShip55 to get the 55% discount. It works out to be $8.98.
If you have hassles ordering it, let me know.
God bless,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
Subject: George Yundt
From: "Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)" <deneals(at)deneals.com>
If George Yundt is still on this list, can you contact me privately?
--
Deneal Schilmeister
deneals(at)deneals.com
http://deneals.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: George Yundt
Date: May 20, 2010
George YundtFellow Commander Folks,
Some Twin Commanders have Plexiglas inspection windows installed in the
aft fuselage under the horizontal stabilizer where the factory had the
louvered inspection plates. Are these done with an STC, a one time field
inspection by the FAA, or as a non FAA approved modification?
Also does anyone have a pilots side spare windshield for a 680Fp in good
condition? part # 5360007-41. Apparently this same windshield was used
on the 680FLp and 680T.
Thanx!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: Deneal Schilmeister (MacbookPro)
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:06 PM
Subject: Commander-List: George Yundt
If George Yundt is still on this list, can you contact me privately?
--
Deneal Schilmeister
deneals(at)deneals.com
http://deneals.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: George Yundt
Date: May 21, 2010
G'day Moe,
Buddy Plaster (on this list) fitted the plexiglass windows to his 560E.
Contact me off list if you need his email address.
Cheers mate!
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: George Yundt
Date: May 21, 2010
G'day Mate,
Unforntunately, the windshield on the pressurized planes is a lot thicker
(make that more difficult to work with) than the non pressurized models and
must be "as cast" rather than formed.
Regards,
Moe
--------------------------------------------------
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: George Yundt
>
> G'day Moe,
>
> Buddy Plaster (on this list) fitted the plexiglass windows to his 560E.
>
> Contact me off list if you need his email address.
>
> Cheers mate!
>
> Russell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n29cx(at)ridgeviewtel.us>
Subject: Rotax First Engine Start
Date: May 26, 2010
I fired up the Rotax 912 ULS on my Van's RV-12 for a few moments this
morning....it started right up...with throttle at full closed could not
get rpm down to the 1800 or so I wanted at 'idle' it would not go less
than 3,470 rpm so I shut it down and left it for tomorrow...family
responsibilities only let me work on the plane for a few hours each
day....a quick peek through the oil door at the right carb didn't show
anything obvious, so I will have to await tomorrow to do some trouble
shooting....I fully suspect some sort of carb problem...I recall
carefully setting the controls and the stops when I installed the
engine, but something isn't quite right.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax First Engine Start
Cool. I use one of those in my Commander Tug! ;-)
________________________________
From: John Fasching <n29cx(at)ridgeviewtel.us>
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 1:15:38 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Rotax First Engine Start
I fired up the Rotax 912 ULS on my Van's RV-12 for
a few moments this morning....it started right up...with throttle at full closed
could not get rpm down to the 1800 or so I wanted at 'idle' it would
not go less than 3,470 rpm so I shut it down and left it for
tomorrow...family responsibilities only let me work on the plane for a few hours
each day....a quick peek through the oil door at the right carb didn't show
anything obvious, so I will have to await tomorrow to do some trouble
shooting....I fully suspect some sort of carb problem...I recall carefully
setting the controls and the stops when I installed the engine, but something
isn't quite right.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: Worst ever air disaster in Irish history !
Date: May 28, 2010
Reported in The Irish Times:
Text Box: Ireland's Worst Ever Air Disaster
DUBLIN - Ireland's worst ever air disaster occurred this morning when a
two-seater Cessna light aircraft crashed into a cemetery. Irish search and
rescue workers have recovered 1,826 bodies so far and expect that number to
climb as digging continues into the night. -Reuters.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: FW: Worst ever air disaster in Irish history !
Date: May 28, 2010
We had this joke using Neufies.
T...
----- Original Message -----
From: cybersuperstore
To: 'nico'
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:36 AM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Worst ever air disaster in Irish history
!
Reported in The Irish Times:
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: When kids get good news
Date: May 28, 2010
<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hkGzqpGx1KU>
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hkGzqpGx1KU
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2010
Subject: Re: When kids get good news
From: Morris Kernick <comserv500s(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Nico. Morris
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:07 PM, cybersuperstore
wrote:
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hkGzqpGx1KU
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: When kids get good news
Date: May 30, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
WOW. Thanks for sharing that!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 6:07 pm
Subject: Commander-List: When kids get good news
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hkGzqpGx1KU
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 06, 2010
I wanted to solicit some feedback on the AC500 (straight 500) birds. A whi
le back we were looking to purchase a 500A or B. We had some issues and ar
e tossing around the idea again. Anyway=2C there is a seemingly nice 500 f
or sale on Controller.com. Keep in mind we currently have a 56' G35 Bonan
za and are used to old airplanes. I wanted to know what kind of REAL WORLD
performance figures does everyone see for the 500=2C 500A=2C and 500B? Any
thing that would prohibit anyone for buying a straight 500? Feedback is gr
eatly appreciated. My cell # is 936-577-1117
Thanks a million=2C
Zac Armstrong
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda
ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to
liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f
rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy
to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc
eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r
emember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa
ntayana.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 06, 2010
ZAC, IVE OWNED A 500B FOR 28 YEARS.FANTASTIC AIRCRAFT BUT,,,, NEEDS
TENDER LOVING CARE & $$$$
AS DOES ANY OLD AIRCRAFT.LOTS OF LUCK, LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Zac Armstrong<mailto:transam403(at)hotmail.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
I wanted to solicit some feedback on the AC500 (straight 500) birds.
A while back we were looking to purchase a 500A or B. We had some
issues and are tossing around the idea again. Anyway, there is a
seemingly nice 500 for sale on Controller.com. Keep in mind we
currently have a 56' G35 Bonanza and are used to old airplanes. I
wanted to know what kind of REAL WORLD performance figures does everyone
see for the 500, 500A, and 500B? Anything that would prohibit anyone for
buying a straight 500? Feedback is greatly appreciated. My cell # is
936-577-1117
Thanks a million,
Zac Armstrong
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path:
from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from
courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to
selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to
apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If
we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for
those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler
and George Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
inbox. Learn
more.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:W
LMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Hi Zac,
I had a straight 500 and put about 1,100 hours on it. I found it to be
extremely reliable with low maintenance costs. At the same time I had a Twin
Comanche and (still) believe that those two planes in combination afforded
me the best capability in terms of speed and payload when I needed it. Once
I needed a left undercarriage brake rotor and some other stuff, which cost a
bundle to import from the U.S. (I lived in South Africa at the time). And
one other time the hydraulic line that operated the hydraulic pressure gauge
cracked and nearly made us into a flying molotoff cocktail. After the brake
incident I learned to land and slow the AC down without touching the brakes.
The 500 had extremely good loading capability provided one operates it at
lower altitudes. In terms of pure functionality and a bit higher maintenance
costs, a Miller converted 500A would seem to me to be the ultimate ship. I
only have a few hours on the 500B and no time on the Shrike, so I'd rather
not comment on them.
You can see me playing with the AC here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcUM9MCPsA
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
ZAC, IVE OWNED A 500B FOR 28 YEARS.FANTASTIC AIRCRAFT BUT,,,, NEEDS TENDER
LOVING CARE & $$$$
AS DOES ANY OLD AIRCRAFT.LOTS OF LUCK, LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Zac Armstrong <mailto:transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
I wanted to solicit some feedback on the AC500 (straight 500) birds. A
while back we were looking to purchase a 500A or B. We had some issues and
are tossing around the idea again. Anyway, there is a seemingly nice 500
for sale on Controller.com. Keep in mind we currently have a 56' G35
Bonanza and are used to old airplanes. I wanted to know what kind of REAL
WORLD performance figures does everyone see for the 500, 500A, and 500B?
Anything that would prohibit anyone for buying a straight 500? Feedback is
greatly appreciated. My cell # is 936-577-1117
Thanks a million,
Zac Armstrong
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
_____
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
Learn
<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1> more.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Oh, I burned 22 gph (Imperial gallons) on the 500 and exactly half that on
the Twin Comanche. I once loaded 9 people into the 500 when we had to fly
them out of Inhaca Island (off the east coast of Mozambique) in 1984. It was
a non-event in terms of performance and comfort.
There are other things that I did with the Commander that are not
necessarily suitable to confess to. It is a worthy and honest ship which
more than makes up for all its other idiosyncrasies.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cybersuperstore
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
Hi Zac,
I had a straight 500 and put about 1,100 hours on it. I found it to be
extremely reliable with low maintenance costs. At the same time I had a Twin
Comanche and (still) believe that those two planes in combination afforded
me the best capability in terms of speed and payload when I needed it. Once
I needed a left undercarriage brake rotor and some other stuff, which cost a
bundle to import from the U.S. (I lived in South Africa at the time). And
one other time the hydraulic line that operated the hydraulic pressure gauge
cracked and nearly made us into a flying molotoff cocktail. After the brake
incident I learned to land and slow the AC down without touching the brakes.
The 500 had extremely good loading capability provided one operates it at
lower altitudes. In terms of pure functionality and a bit higher maintenance
costs, a Miller converted 500A would seem to me to be the ultimate ship. I
only have a few hours on the 500B and no time on the Shrike, so I'd rather
not comment on them.
You can see me playing with the AC here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcUM9MCPsA
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
ZAC, IVE OWNED A 500B FOR 28 YEARS.FANTASTIC AIRCRAFT BUT,,,, NEEDS TENDER
LOVING CARE & $$$$
AS DOES ANY OLD AIRCRAFT.LOTS OF LUCK, LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Zac Armstrong <mailto:transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:52 PM
Subject: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
I wanted to solicit some feedback on the AC500 (straight 500) birds. A
while back we were looking to purchase a 500A or B. We had some issues and
are tossing around the idea again. Anyway, there is a seemingly nice 500
for sale on Controller.com. Keep in mind we currently have a 56' G35
Bonanza and are used to old airplanes. I wanted to know what kind of REAL
WORLD performance figures does everyone see for the 500, 500A, and 500B?
Anything that would prohibit anyone for buying a straight 500? Feedback is
greatly appreciated. My cell # is 936-577-1117
Thanks a million,
Zac Armstrong
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
_____
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
Learn
<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1> more.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2010
From: Brock Lorber <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
I've probably told this story, but when 400CH (680FL(P)) first came to
Las Vegas, there was an Aero Star parked next to us.
One day, the owner of the Aero Star walked up while I was adding a 5th
(6th?) coat of wax and said, "that's a nice plane, but I like a little
more speed."
"Well, let's race," I said.
He got an indignant look on his face and said something to the effect
of, "oh, that plane will never keep up with mine."
I smiled and said, "you didn't let me finish. The race is moving 8
people plus hunting gear from here to Del Rio, TX."
cybersuperstore wrote:
> I once loaded 9 people into the 500 when we had to fly
> them out of Inhaca Island (off the east coast of Mozambique) in 1984. It was
> a non-event in terms of performance and comfort.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 06, 2010
You'll get them every time with that.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
I've probably told this story, but when 400CH (680FL(P)) first came to
Las Vegas, there was an Aero Star parked next to us.
One day, the owner of the Aero Star walked up while I was adding a 5th
(6th?) coat of wax and said, "that's a nice plane, but I like a little
more speed."
"Well, let's race," I said.
He got an indignant look on his face and said something to the effect
of, "oh, that plane will never keep up with mine."
I smiled and said, "you didn't let me finish. The race is moving 8
people plus hunting gear from here to Del Rio, TX."
cybersuperstore wrote:
> I once loaded 9 people into the 500 when we had to fly
> them out of Inhaca Island (off the east coast of Mozambique) in 1984. It
was
> a non-event in terms of performance and comfort.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
Thanks! I know the GIO powered birds have alot more "umph"=2C especially w
hen it comes to weight lifting capability. But=2C I don't want the extra h
eadaches of the gear boxes as it is becoming harder and harder (not to ment
ion more expensive) to find people to work on them! Great video.
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda
ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to
liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f
rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy
to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc
eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r
emember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa
ntayana.
> From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
> Date: Sun=2C 6 Jun 2010 23:11:04 -0700
>
tore.com>
>
> You'll get them every time with that.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lor
ber
> Sent: Sunday=2C June 06=2C 2010 11:01 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>
>
>
> I've probably told this story=2C but when 400CH (680FL(P)) first came to
> Las Vegas=2C there was an Aero Star parked next to us.
>
> One day=2C the owner of the Aero Star walked up while I was adding a 5th
> (6th?) coat of wax and said=2C "that's a nice plane=2C but I like a littl
e
> more speed."
>
> "Well=2C let's race=2C" I said.
>
> He got an indignant look on his face and said something to the effect
> of=2C "oh=2C that plane will never keep up with mine."
>
> I smiled and said=2C "you didn't let me finish. The race is moving 8
> people plus hunting gear from here to Del Rio=2C TX."
>
>
> cybersuperstore wrote:
> > I once loaded 9 people into the 500 when we had to fly
> > them out of Inhaca Island (off the east coast of Mozambique) in 1984. I
t
> was
> > a non-event in terms of performance and comfort.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
ZAC,
You should sent the Serial No to Barry Coleman. He is our historian. He can give
you a print out of who has owned the airplane from day one and all the 337
that are on file. It is like a CarFAX history of the airplane.
If it is the one in Trade-a-plane at $22,000 it could be a good buy. Just don't
overload it at high altitudes.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Zac Armstrong wrote:
> Thanks! I know the GIO powered birds have alot more "umph", especially when
it comes to weight lifting capability. But, I don't want the extra headaches
of the gear boxes as it is becoming harder and harder (not to mention more expensive)
to find people to work on them! Great video.
>
> All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage
to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to
complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence
back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must
break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat
it.
>
> -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
> > Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 23:11:04 -0700
> >
> >
> > You'll get them every time with that.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brock Lorber
> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:01 PM
> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
> >
> >
> >
> > I've probably told this story, but when 400CH (680FL(P)) first came to
> > Las Vegas, there was an Aero Star parked next to us.
> >
> > One day, the owner of the Aero Star walked up while I was adding a 5th
> > (6th?) coat of wax and said, "that's a nice plane, but I like a little
> > more speed."
> >
> > "Well, let's race," I said.
> >
> > He got an indignant look on his face and said something to the effect
> > of, "oh, that plane will never keep up with mine."
> >
> > I smiled and said, "you didn't let me finish. The race is moving 8
> > people plus hunting gear from here to Del Rio, TX."
> >
> >
> > cybersuperstore wrote:
> > > I once loaded 9 people into the 500 when we had to fly
> > > them out of Inhaca Island (off the east coast of Mozambique) in 1984. It
> > was
> > > a non-event in terms of performance and comfort.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >======================
> &g===================
> >
> >
> >
>
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
See how.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2010
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
> If it is the one in Trade-a-plane at $22,000 it could be a good buy.
Seriously? I'd wager you could buy the nicest 500 on the planet and end
up with a smaller investment than it would take to get that poor heap
even marginally airworthy. Love to see the old gal get restored but
sure looks to me like it probably a total corrosion pit, likely has junk
engines and props, and would need a total rebuild if the airframe is
even salvageable.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2010
From: craig kennedy <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
________________________________
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
> If it is the one in Trade-a-plane at $22,000 it could be a good buy.
Seriously? I'd wager you could buy the nicest 500 on the planet and end up with
a smaller investment than it would take to get that poor heap even marginally
airworthy. Love to see the old gal get restored but sure looks to me like it
probably a total corrosion pit, likely has junk engines and props, and would
need a total rebuild if the airframe is even salvageable.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
Hay, be nice guys.
How about 500 SG in Controller. It is even in Lic. Dec 2009.
Nice radios.
New interior in 2003,
GPS, A/P
It looks flyable. Corrosions ? it is parked inside for now.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
> Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
>
> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 08, 2010
We were thinking about 500SG in CA=2C not the one for 22K. One thing I hav
e learned from restoring our Bonanza is to start off with a nice airplane.
I definitely won't be buying a 22K -500. I do also know that while a 500
is a lot cheaper initially=2C it does have some limitations (performance) a
nd can eat a very large hole in a wallet (as with any airplane).
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda
ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to
liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f
rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy
to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc
eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r
emember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa
ntayana.
From: tylorhall(at)mac.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
Date: Mon=2C 7 Jun 2010 19:21:51 -0600
Hay=2C be nice guys.
How about 500 SG in Controller. It is even in Lic. Dec 2009.
Nice radios.
New interior in 2003=2C
GPS=2C A/P
It looks flyable. Corrosions ? it is parked inside for now.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 7=2C 2010=2C at 6:48 PM=2C craig kennedy wrote:
Sad=2C but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Mon=2C June 7=2C 2010 5:28:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
Zac,
A straight 500 has 0-540 engines, carburetors and 250 HP, not the IO injected.
That came in the 500B, U and S versions. The 500 A had the Cont. i0-470 260
HP, The Colmill conversion changed it up to the IO-520 Cont.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
> Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
>
> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: n409ac[1].pdf
Date: Jun 07, 2010
I wasn't aware that there is an Aero Commander 200D. Sir Barry?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
Darn! Colemil, not Miller.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
Zac,
A straight 500 has 0-540 engines, carburetors and 250 HP, not the IO
injected. That came in the 500B, U and S versions. The 500 A had the Cont.
i0-470 260 HP, The Colmill conversion changed it up to the IO-520 Cont.
Tylor Hall
On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
_____
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 07, 2010
Miller made the long nose that Aero Commander copyed later.
Tylor
On Jun 7, 2010, at 8:05 PM, cybersuperstore wrote:
> Darn! Colemil, not Miller.
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 6:27 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>
> Zac,
> A straight 500 has 0-540 engines, carburetors and 250 HP, not the IO injected.
That came in the 500B, U and S versions. The 500 A had the Cont. i0-470 260
HP, The Colmill conversion changed it up to the IO-520 Cont.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
>
>
> Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
>
> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: n409ac[1].pdf
Date: Jun 08, 2010
Hi Nico,
The Aero Commander 200 was formerly the Meyers 200.
Rockwell acquired the Type in 1965, when they also acquired the Volair
10 (Aero Commander 100) and the Snow S-2 and CallAir A-9 Ag types.
The Meyers/Aero Commander 200 was virtually hand-built and, as far as I
know, has never had a single AD issued against it.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cybersuperstore
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:43 AM
Subject: Commander-List: n409ac[1].pdf
I wasn't aware that there is an Aero Commander 200D. Sir Barry?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "alh1(at)juno.com" <alh1(at)juno.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2010
Subject: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way f
rom the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in
the islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do
you happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb repor
t. all of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a year it
seems. allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c0eb2426dcf327e9d2st04vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 500 lost
Date: Jun 08, 2010
Hi Al,
Heard nothing here about it.
Presumably it happened earlier today?
Nothing on the FAA's preliminary report website, but will check what
they post tomorrow, for accidents reported today.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: alh1(at)juno.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:11 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way
from the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in
the islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do
you happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb
report. all of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a
year it seems. allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
AwesomePennyStocks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: 500 lost
Date: Jun 08, 2010
I was looking around to see if I could pick up something. Stumbled across
this article, something I didn't know.
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Audie-Murphy-N601JJ.htm
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
alh1(at)juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way from
the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in the
islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do you
happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb report. all
of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a year it seems.
allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c0eb2426dcf327e9d2st04vuc> Penny
Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c0eb2426dcf327e9d2st04vuc>
AwesomePennyStocks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: 500 lost
Date: Jun 08, 2010
HI Nico,
Already got that covered but thanks for the link, which provided some
extra detail.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cybersuperstore
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: Commander-List: 500 lost
I was looking around to see if I could pick up something. Stumbled
across this article, something I didn't know.
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Audie-Murphy-N601JJ.htm
Nico
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
alh1(at)juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:12 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way
from the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in
the islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do
you happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb
report. all of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a
year it seems. allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
AwesomePennyStocks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 500 lost
Date: Jun 08, 2010
Nico=2C
I remember this crash well. It happened about 110 miles from my house in Gr
eensboro N.C. I have the newspaper article somewhere.
Roland Gilliam Carthage N.C. AC 500 6291 B
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500 lost
Date: Tue=2C 8 Jun 2010 15:25:40 -0700
I was looking around to see if I could pick up something. Stumbled across t
his article=2C something I didn't know.
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Audie-Murphy-N601JJ.htm
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of alh1(at)juno.com
Sent: Tuesday=2C June 08=2C 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry=2C i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way fr
om the bahamas to the us. no details=2C but all of the commanders in th
e islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do you h
appen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb report. all
of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a year it seems. al
lan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
AwesomePennyStocks.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listh
ttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com" <kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 08, 2010
>> A straight 500 has 0-540 engines
Is there any STC tor a straight 500 engine?
ET
Tylor Hall writes:
> Zac,
> A straight 500 has 0-540 engines, carburetors and 250 HP, not the IO injected.
That came in the 500B, U and S versions. The 500 A had the Cont. i0-470 260
HP, The Colmill conversion changed it up to the IO-520 Cont.
>
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
>
>> Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
>>
>> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 500 lost
Date: Jun 09, 2010
Nico,
He grew up at Farmersville, Texas where my wife's family lived. They always
told the story of a bully kid that tried to bully Audie and Audie just beat
the tar out of him. He may have been small he had more fight in him than
just about anybody.
He is one of my hero's, thanks for the story.
Jim
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cybersuperstore
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500 lost
I was looking around to see if I could pick up something. Stumbled across
this article, something I didn't know.
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Audie-Murphy-N601JJ.htm
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
alh1(at)juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way from
the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in the
islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do you
happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb report. all
of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a year it seems.
allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c0eb2426dcf327e9d2st04vuc> Penny
Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4c0eb2426dcf327e9d2st04vuc>
AwesomePennyStocks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: AC500 Question or two
Date: Jun 09, 2010
Hi,
There is just one STC, I believe, covering different engines on the straight
500.
SA257CE, dated July 27th 1964, covers the "Installation of turbocharged Lycoming
engines, model IO-540-A1A5 with Hartzell HC-A3VK-2/V7636D propellers in
accordance with Riley Aeronautics, Inc. Bulletin 64-5. Riley Aeronautics, Inc.
AFM Supplement dated July 27, 1964 required."
This STC is now held by Rayjay Parts LLC., of 10 Harbor Island Drive, Key Largo,
Florida 33037.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
|
| >> A straight 500 has 0-540 engines
| Is there any STC tor a straight 500 engine?
| ET
|
|
|
|
| Tylor Hall writes:
|
| > Zac,
| > A straight 500 has 0-540 engines, carburetors and 250 HP, not the IO
injected. That came in the 500B, U and S versions. The 500 A had the Cont.
i0-470 260 HP, The Colmill conversion changed it up to the IO-520 Cont.
| >
| > Tylor Hall
| >
| >
| > On Jun 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, craig kennedy wrote:
| >
| >> Sad, but looks to be bubbling nicely in the damp FL sun.....
| >>
| >> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
| >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
| >> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 5:28:27 PM
| >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC500 Question or two
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 500 lost
Date: Jun 09, 2010
From: jmgfallstrom(at)aol.com
Dear Roland - Just saw in your comment that you are the owner of N6291B -
I learned to fly in that a/c when it belonged to Mr. Phil Tuttle - Just
wanted to say I often think about that 500 and wondered where she was -
glad to see I know that now - and that she is in good hands - All my best
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 7:57 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500 lost
Nico,
I remember this crash well. It happened about 110 miles from my house in
Greensboro N.C. I have the newspaper article somewhere.
Roland Gilliam Carthage N.C. AC 500 6291 B
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 500 lost
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:25:40 -0700
I was looking around to see if I could pick up something. Stumbled across
this article, something I didn't know.
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Audie-Murphy-N601JJ.htm
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of alh1(at)juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: 500 lost
hi barry, i am advised that a 500 went into the atlantic on the way fro
m the bahamas to the us. no details, but all of the commanders in the
islands use N numbers. plane is lost. nothing in newspapers. do you
happen to know which one it was? i doubt there is even a ntsb report.
all of ours are accounted for and we are adding about two a year it seem
s. allan hoffman
-
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
AwesomePennyStocks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
onics.com
w.matronics.com/contribution
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox. See how.
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Model 520 needed
Date: Jun 14, 2010
Hi Guys,
The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley
Post airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for
static display with the L-3805.
The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis Tuttle
Technology Center.
Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I understand
that they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be built at Wiley
Post.
In light of the restoration team=99s sheet metal capabilities,
airframe condition should not be of primary importance.
So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable
candidate for them?
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2010
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Hi Barry,
N200 (located in Florida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged with a
partial gear-up landing...
It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reasonably complete.
Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote
:
> Hi Guys,
>
> The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley Post
> airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for static
> display with the L-3805.
>
> The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis Tuttle
> Technology Center.
> Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I understand th
at
> they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be built at Wiley Post.
>
> In light of the restoration team=B9s sheet metal capabilities, airframe
> condition should not be of primary importance.
>
> So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable candid
ate
> for them?
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry Collman
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
Date: Jun 14, 2010
Re: Commander-List: Model 520 neededHi Russell,
Thanks for that!
I've passed the details on to Bill McGinnis, who is in contact with
Kenny & Dennis.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Barry,
N200 (located in Florida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged
with a partial gear-up landing...
It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reasonably
complete.
Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
wrote:
Hi Guys,
The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley
Post airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for
static display with the L-3805.
The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis
Tuttle Technology Center.
Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I
understand that they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be
built at Wiley Post.
In light of the restoration team's sheet metal capabilities,
airframe condition should not be of primary importance.
So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable
candidate for them?
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
Date: Jun 20, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
There is a ferriable example in Hillsboro. I have seen the airplane. I
believe it can be bought for a few thousand dollars. Anybody out there
in a position to finance this?? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:04 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Russell,
Thanks for that!
I've passed the details on to Bill McGinnis, who is in contact with Kenny
& Dennis.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Barry,
N200 (located in Florida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged with
a partial gear-up landing...
It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reasonably complete
.
Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrot
e:
Hi Guys,
The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley Post
airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for static
display with the L-3805.
The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis Tuttle Tech
nology Center.
Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I understand tha
t they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be built at Wiley Post
.
In light of the restoration team=99s sheet metal capabilities, airfr
ame condition should not be of primary importance.
So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable candida
te for them?
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
Date: Jun 21, 2010
Hi JimBob,
Have you got any contact details for this 520?
An "N" number, or s/n?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
There is a ferriable example in Hillsboro. I have seen the airplane.
I believe it can be bought for a few thousand dollars. Anybody out
there in a position to finance this?? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:04 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Russell,
Thanks for that!
I've passed the details on to Bill McGinnis, who is in contact with
Kenny & Dennis.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Barry,
N200 (located in Florida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged
with a partial gear-up landing...
It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reasonably
complete.
Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman"
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Guys,
The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near
Wiley Post airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore
for static display with the L-3805.
The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis
Tuttle Technology Center.
Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I
understand that they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be
built at Wiley Post.
In light of the restoration team=99s sheet metal
capabilities, airframe condition should not be of primary importance.
So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable
candidate for them?
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Date: Jun 21, 2010
Subject: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
_____
Kulula is a low-cost South- African airline that doesn't take itself too
seriously. Check out their new livery.
No this is not a joke - feel free to Google them - they did the design and
artwork in house too..
make sure you check out the smaller print-especially for the "loo."
especially for the 'loo'!!
[]
[]
[]
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2010
From: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
Hi Jim,=0A=0AWhat price is exactly a few thousand dollars. Contact address?
=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AFrits=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" =0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASent: Mon, June 21, 2010 4:33:42 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Mod
el 520 needed=0A=0AThere is a ferriable example in Hillsboro.=C2- I have
seen the airplane.=C2- I believe it can be bought for a few thousand doll
ars.=C2- Anybody out there in a position to finance this??=C2- jb=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Barry Collman <barry.collman@ai
r-britain.co.uk>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, Jun 14, 20
10 5:04 am=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed=0A=0A=0AHi Russe
ll,=0A=C2-=0AThanks for that!=0AI've passed the details on to Bill McGinn
is, who is in contact with Kenny & Dennis.=0A=C2-=0ABest Regards,=0ABarry
=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Russell Legg =0A>To: commander-li
st(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:48 PM=0A>Subject: Re: C
ommander-List: Model 520 needed=0A>=0A>Hi Barry,=0A>=0A>N200 (located in Fl
orida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged with a partial gear-up lan
ding...=0A>=0A>It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reaso
nably complete.=0A>=0A>Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.=0A>=0A>Cheers f
rom Oz=0A>=0A>Russell=0A>=0A>=0A>On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman" .collman@air-britain.co.uk > wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Guys,=0A>>=C2-=0A>>The g
uys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley Post airpor
t, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for static display w
ith the L-3805.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, ar
e with the Francis Tuttle Technology Center.=0A>>Both aircraft will be acqu
ired by the City of Bethany and I understand that they will be displayed in
a new museum that is to be built at Wiley Post.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>In light of
the restoration team=99s sheet metal capabilities, airframe conditio
n should not be of primary importance.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>So, does anybody know
of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable candidate for them?=0A>>=C2
-=0A>>Best Regards,=0A>>Barry Collman=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>ist Email Forum -=0A>
>r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0A>>;=C2-=C2
-- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A>>matronics.com=0A>>;- List Contribution Web
Site -=0A>>;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.=0A>>://www
.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Commander-List=0A>href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.mat
ronics.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat
ronics.com/c=0A>=0A=0A=0A================
=====================0At" target=
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List======
======0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A=========
===0A_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=======
==0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Date: Jun 21, 2010
Jim, just think..if they painted every American/United Airlines airliner
like this, the captains would actually know what stuff in the airplane does!
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 7:09 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Subject: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
_____
Kulula is a low-cost South- African airline that doesn't take itself too
seriously. Check out their new livery.
No this is not a joke - feel free to Google them - they did the design and
artwork in house too..
make sure you check out the smaller print-especially for the "loo."
especially for the 'loo'!!
[]
[]
[]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Date: Jun 22, 2010
At one time I knew what all those switches did, right after the oral it all
went away.
Jim A
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Vormbaum
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:58 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Jim, just think..if they painted every American/United Airlines airliner
like this, the captains would actually know what stuff in the airplane does!
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 7:09 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FW: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
Subject: Nominee for best paint job on an airliner
_____
Kulula is a low-cost South- African airline that doesn't take itself too
seriously. Check out their new livery.
No this is not a joke - feel free to Google them - they did the design and
artwork in house too..
make sure you check out the smaller print-especially for the "loo."
especially for the 'loo'!!
[]
[]
[]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Fitzgerald" <DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Fly-in 2010
Date: Jun 24, 2010
Hi list
Has anyone got any preliminary news on when and where the fly-in might
be this year?
David
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) DipAvMed(Otago) ACCAM(Monash) MHeathSci(OccMed)
FAFOEM(RACP)
Consultant Occupational Physician
Occupational, Legal and Aviation Medicine
DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com
Mob 0438 312973
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly-in 2010
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Date: Jun 24, 2010
Hi Every one,
I was just going over my photos of last week end when we had our "fly in"
Thought of you guys and totally reminded me of fat nacelles...
Look at the pictures in sequence,
coincidence?
take care,
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302340#302340
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6190867_copy_110.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6190921_copy_174.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Discount on upgrade
Date: Jun 25, 2010
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100618commanders.html?WT.mc_id=10
0625epilot
<http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100618commanders.html?WT.mc_id=1
00625epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan> &WT.mc_sect=gan
Perhaps someone already posted this.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model 520 needed
Date: Jun 26, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI FRITS. Did you ever solver your propeller problems with the 520?? I
still have the props we talked about. Thanks!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 7:22 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Jim,
What price is exactly a few thousand dollars. Contact address?
Thanks,
Frits
From: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 4:33:42 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
There is a ferriable example in Hillsboro. I have seen the airplane. I
believe it can be bought for a few thousand dollars. Anybody out there
in a position to finance this?? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Collman <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:04 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Russell,
Thanks for that!
I've passed the details on to Bill McGinnis, who is in contact with Kenny
& Dennis.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Legg
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Model 520 needed
Hi Barry,
N200 (located in Florida) is for sale on Barnstormers...was damaged with
a partial gear-up landing...
It was being parted out but who knows...might be still reasonably complete
.
Contact Skip Cambre on 863 258 1775.
Cheers from Oz
Russell
On 14/6/10 8:37 PM, "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrot
e:
Hi Guys,
The guys who are restoring the L-3805 prototype Commander near Wiley Post
airport, Bethany, are now looking for a Model 520 to restore for static
display with the L-3805.
The guys, Kenny Payton and Dennis Carter, are with the Francis Tuttle Tech
nology Center.
Both aircraft will be acquired by the City of Bethany and I understand tha
t they will be displayed in a new museum that is to be built at Wiley Post
.
In light of the restoration team=99s sheet metal capabilities, airfr
ame condition should not be of primary importance.
So, does anybody know of, or can suggest what might be, a suitable candida
te for them?
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
ist Email Forum -
r-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List==
========
p://forums.matronics.com
========================
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://www.====
==================
========================
========================
========================
========================
======================
========================
========================
========================
========================
======================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Gerrish" <virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Date: Jun 27, 2010
I have been reading the communications for a couple of
years, but this is my first try at asking for input.
Before every flight we wipe hydraulic fluid on the strut to make it less
sticky and wipe off any grime. I had a mechanic at our airport (KHWY,
Warrenton, Va.) suggest to me that a product I believe called DOW40 be
sprayed on instead. His thought was that it kept the oleo slippery longer
and did no harm to the internal seals. Does anyone have opinion or
experience with this product.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerrish
Co-owner, 500S, N47AC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Date: Jun 27, 2010
Personally, I always thought that the only thing stickier than super glue is
hydraulic fluid. I use Commander-Approved Strut Cleaning Fluid (i.e. some
fuel from the sump, on a paper towel) to wipe down the struts before I fly.
It gets them clean easily and evaporates quickly.
I haven't heard of DOW40 but am curious to hear from anyone who has used it.
Cheers,
/John
500B N353CC
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gerrish
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I have been reading the communications for a couple of
years, but this is my first try at asking for input.
Before every flight we wipe hydraulic fluid on the strut to make it less
sticky and wipe off any grime. I had a mechanic at our airport (KHWY,
Warrenton, Va.) suggest to me that a product I believe called DOW40 be
sprayed on instead. His thought was that it kept the oleo slippery longer
and did no harm to the internal seals. Does anyone have opinion or
experience with this product.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerrish
Co-owner, 500S, N47AC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AEROCOMAND(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2010
Subject: Re: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Kerosene or diesel
jg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Date: Jun 27, 2010
I am with you, John, also this action keeps you from getting the $
50,000.00 Fine (no joking) at Pensacola, Fl. for throwing the sumped
avgas on the tarmack.
On another note, are any of you able to keep insurance on a pressurized
Commander, without having an instrument check ride at least once a year?
After moving to Farmington, NM it is not necessary to stay instrument
current, as we have two types of weather here....vis. at least 100
miles, or so bad that you don't want to Taxi. Also, since my
retirement, most flying is just for fun, and if I must sit on the ground
until the weather clears at MYF or somewhere, this only means that I
have more time to enjoy the local stuff. My insurance carrier (AVEMCO)
who has been good for many years, insists on the check ride only because
of the pressurization. Also, because of the pressurization, a co-pilot
will be needed when I turn 70.
If someone has a good 680F or 680FL I would consider trading up, down,
or sideways for my 680Fp, which has mid time engines, all the bells and
whistles, is certified known icing, and is in really great shape except
the paint job which could use some help. Due to the high density
altitude here I can only consider forced induction with big horsepower.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: John Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Personally, I always thought that the only thing stickier than super
glue is hydraulic fluid. I use Commander-Approved Strut Cleaning Fluid
(i.e. some fuel from the sump, on a paper towel) to wipe down the struts
before I fly. It gets them clean easily and evaporates quickly.
I haven't heard of DOW40 but am curious to hear from anyone who has used
it.
Cheers,
/John
500B N353CC
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gerrish
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I have been reading the communications for a couple of
years, but this is my first try at asking for input.
Before every flight we wipe hydraulic fluid on the strut to make it less
sticky and wipe off any grime. I had a mechanic at our airport (KHWY,
Warrenton, Va.) suggest to me that a product I believe called DOW40 be
sprayed on instead. His thought was that it kept the oleo slippery
longer and did no harm to the internal seals. Does anyone have opinion
or experience with this product.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerrish
Co-owner, 500S, N47AC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing gear strut lubricaton & IFR currency
Date: Jun 28, 2010
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
On the topic of wiping down struts: I'd like to get Morris Kernick's thou
ghts on this. My thoughts are:
AvGas, while a great solvent, does not lubricate the strut.
WD40 (Witch Doctor 40) cleans and lubricates when its fresh, gets really
gummy when it's old or cold and will roll an O ring fast.
If you're not going to wipe down your struts with 5606 prior to each fligh
t, find a substance that is compatible with the material the O ring is mad
e from.
I have no idea what that other substance would be.
Moe: I had a client, Roy Everingham, who I trained in his AC-680F(P) who
was not instrument rated. AVEMCO insisted on him removing the pressuriz
ation equipment!
I intervened and argued that a man in is 70s, flying from San Diego to Lak
e Tahoe, would not be well served by lack of pressurization along that rou
te.
AVEMCO's answer was that statistically, a non-instrument rated pilot in a
pressurized aircraft is going to be stuck on top of an overcast and (here
's the punch line) "We have the cancelled checks to prove it."
We compromised. I said that rather than remove the pressurization system
that he could disable it. That seemed to satisfy the agent. The answe
r to your next question is, "No."
You may have better luck with another underwriter -- but I doubt it. Insu
rance companies do not like pressurized twins to be flown my non-instrumen
t rated or instrument-current pilots. Alternatives? Self insure or get
and stay current.
Keith S Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 27, 2010 9:00 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I am with you, John, also this action keeps you from getting the $ 50,000.
00 Fine (no joking) at Pensacola, Fl. for throwing the sumped avgas on the
tarmack.
On another note, are any of you able to keep insurance on a pressurized
Commander, without having an instrument check ride at least once a year?
After moving to Farmington, NM it is not necessary to stay instrument cu
rrent, as we have two types of weather here....vis. at least 100 miles, or
so bad that you don't want to Taxi. Also, since my retirement, most flyi
ng is just for fun, and if I must sit on the ground until the weather clea
rs at MYF or somewhere, this only means that I have more time to enjoy the
local stuff. My insurance carrier (AVEMCO) who has been good for many ye
ars, insists on the check ride only because of the pressurization. Also,
because of the pressurization, a co-pilot will be needed when I turn 70.
If someone has a good 680F or 680FL I would consider trading up, down, or
sideways for my 680Fp, which has mid time engines, all the bells and whis
tles, is certified known icing, and is in really great shape except the pa
int job which could use some help. Due to the high density altitude here
I can only consider forced induction with big horsepower.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: John Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Personally, I always thought that the only thing stickier than super glue
is hydraulic fluid. I use Commander-Approved Strut Cleaning Fluid (i.e.
some fuel from the sump, on a paper towel) to wipe down the struts before
I fly. It gets them clean easily and evaporates quickly.
I haven=99t heard of DOW40 but am curious to hear from anyone who ha
s used it.
Cheers,
/John
500B N353CC
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gerrish
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I have been reading the communications for a couple of yea
rs, but this is my first try at asking for input.
Before every flight we wipe hydraulic fluid on the strut to make it less
sticky and wipe off any grime. I had a mechanic at our airport (KHWY, Wa
rrenton, Va.) suggest to me that a product I believe called DOW40 be spray
ed on instead. His thought was that it kept the oleo slippery longer and
did no harm to the internal seals. Does anyone have opinion or experienc
e with this product.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerrish
Co-owner, 500S, N47AC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: ZS-CTC
Date: Jun 28, 2010
Hi Barry,
I am sending this just in case you needed to know about her whereabouts.
Scroll a little bit down.
http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15
<http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64082> &t=64082
I knew Charles Prince in Zimbabwe fairly well.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ZS-CTC
Date: Jun 28, 2010
Hi Nico,
I think ZS-CTC has been resident at Charles Prince for many years.
At least, it was noted there in 1994.
However, grateful thanks for sending the link.
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: cybersuperstore
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: Commander-List: ZS-CTC
Hi Barry,
I am sending this just in case you needed to know about her
whereabouts. Scroll a little bit down.
http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64082
I knew Charles Prince in Zimbabwe fairly well.
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: The future of Honda
Date: Jun 28, 2010
Pretty cool!
<http://www.flixxy.com/honda-u3-x-personal-mobility-device.htm>
http://www.flixxy.com/honda-u3-x-personal-mobility-device.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AV16B-1159
From: Bill Kirkwood <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2010
Anyone know where I could get a fuel selector valve overhauled?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear strut lubricaton & IFR currency
Date: Jun 29, 2010
Keith,
Thank you very much for the advice. Most likely I will self insure, as
pressurization is a good thing here in the rare air high mesa country.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680Fp
From: Keith S. Gordon
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton & IFR
currency
On the topic of wiping down struts: I'd like to get Morris Kernick's
thoughts on this. My thoughts are:
a.. AvGas, while a great solvent, does not lubricate the strut.
b.. WD40 (Witch Doctor 40) cleans and lubricates when its fresh, gets
really gummy when it's old or cold and will roll an O ring fast.
c.. If you're not going to wipe down your struts with 5606 prior to
each flight, find a substance that is compatible with the material the O
ring is made from.
a.. I have no idea what that other substance would be.
Moe: I had a client, Roy Everingham, who I trained in his AC-680F(P)
who was not instrument rated. AVEMCO insisted on him removing the
pressurization equipment!
I intervened and argued that a man in is 70s, flying from San Diego to
Lake Tahoe, would not be well served by lack of pressurization along
that route.
AVEMCO's answer was that statistically, a non-instrument rated pilot in
a pressurized aircraft is going to be stuck on top of an overcast and
(here's the punch line) "We have the cancelled checks to prove it."
We compromised. I said that rather than remove the pressurization
system that he could disable it. That seemed to satisfy the agent.
The answer to your next question is, "No."
You may have better luck with another underwriter -- but I doubt it.
Insurance companies do not like pressurized twins to be flown my
non-instrument rated or instrument-current pilots. Alternatives? Self
insure or get and stay current.
Keith S Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 27, 2010 9:00 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I am with you, John, also this action keeps you from getting the $
50,000.00 Fine (no joking) at Pensacola, Fl. for throwing the sumped
avgas on the tarmack.
On another note, are any of you able to keep insurance on a pressurized
Commander, without having an instrument check ride at least once a year?
After moving to Farmington, NM it is not necessary to stay instrument
current, as we have two types of weather here....vis. at least 100
miles, or so bad that you don't want to Taxi. Also, since my
retirement, most flying is just for fun, and if I must sit on the ground
until the weather clears at MYF or somewhere, this only means that I
have more time to enjoy the local stuff. My insurance carrier (AVEMCO)
who has been good for many years, insists on the check ride only because
of the pressurization. Also, because of the pressurization, a co-pilot
will be needed when I turn 70.
If someone has a good 680F or 680FL I would consider trading up, down,
or sideways for my 680Fp, which has mid time engines, all the bells and
whistles, is certified known icing, and is in really great shape except
the paint job which could use some help. Due to the high density
altitude here I can only consider forced induction with big horsepower.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: John Vormbaum
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
Personally, I always thought that the only thing stickier than super
glue is hydraulic fluid. I use Commander-Approved Strut Cleaning Fluid
(i.e. some fuel from the sump, on a paper towel) to wipe down the struts
before I fly. It gets them clean easily and evaporates quickly.
I haven=99t heard of DOW40 but am curious to hear from anyone who
has used it.
Cheers,
/John
500B N353CC
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gerrish
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Landing gear strut lubricaton
I have been reading the communications for a couple of
years, but this is my first try at asking for input.
Before every flight we wipe hydraulic fluid on the strut to make it less
sticky and wipe off any grime. I had a mechanic at our airport (KHWY,
Warrenton, Va.) suggest to me that a product I believe called DOW40 be
sprayed on instead. His thought was that it kept the oleo slippery
longer and did no harm to the internal seals. Does anyone have opinion
or experience with this product.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerrish
Co-owner, 500S, N47AC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AV16B-1159
Date: Jun 29, 2010
Yes Harry Merritt
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kirkwood" <bkirkwoo(at)elp.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Commander-List: AV16B-1159
>
> Anyone know where I could get a fuel selector valve overhauled?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Date: Jun 29, 2010
Hello,
I am in need of an overhaul of a pressure reducer from the hydraulic
system of an Aero Commander 680FLP, Mr. RPM conversion. The pump
pressure is about 3,000 psi and the aircraft system works around 1,000
psi. Had the pressure go to 2,000 psi recently and broke a line. Most
recent runup was OK but I don't trust it now. Have had two complete
hydraulic failures this year, don't want any more.
Maintenance guys have found someone to overhaul, but it's around $5,500
(ripoff price) and 45-60 days. I can't believe a pressure reducer is
that complicated an item..
Does anyone have a pressure reducer for sale...sorry I don't have a part
number at the moment. Experienced Commander folks will probably know
what I need, but I can get the part #.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Date: Jun 29, 2010
yes harry merritt
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mansfield
To: Commander List
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hello,
I am in need of an overhaul of a pressure reducer from the hydraulic
system of an Aero Commander 680FLP, Mr. RPM conversion. The pump
pressure is about 3,000 psi and the aircraft system works around 1,000
psi. Had the pressure go to 2,000 psi recently and broke a line. Most
recent runup was OK but I don't trust it now. Have had two complete
hydraulic failures this year, don't want any more.
Maintenance guys have found someone to overhaul, but it's around
$5,500 (ripoff price) and 45-60 days. I can't believe a pressure
reducer is that complicated an item..
Does anyone have a pressure reducer for sale...sorry I don't have a
part number at the moment. Experienced Commander folks will probably
know what I need, but I can get the part #.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Date: Jun 30, 2010
Hi,
I needed a pressure regulator for my 500S 3 years ago and the only on
available was an overhauled one on a shelf in Indianna for $5000.00 PLUS a
$3000.00 core charge if mine was rebuildable.
Apparently there is only one place that rebuilds them and there are some
parts in there that are not available any more and have to be "machined".
Luckily mine was rebuildable and I was able to recover my core charge.
Good luck.
I still have half of a rear door hinge that cost me $950.00. I was able to
have the broken one welded but was unable to return the new 1/2 because 2
weeks had elapsed.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ray Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:39 AM
To: Commander List
Subject: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hello,
I am in need of an overhaul of a pressure reducer from the hydraulic
system of an Aero Commander 680FLP, Mr. RPM conversion. The pump pressure
is about 3,000 psi and the aircraft system works around 1,000 psi. Had the
pressure go to 2,000 psi recently and broke a line. Most recent runup was
OK but I don't trust it now. Have had two complete hydraulic failures this
year, don't want any more.
Maintenance guys have found someone to overhaul, but it's around $5,500
(ripoff price) and 45-60 days. I can't believe a pressure reducer is that
complicated an item..
Does anyone have a pressure reducer for sale...sorry I don't have a part
number at the moment. Experienced Commander folks will probably know what I
need, but I can get the part #.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Date: Jun 30, 2010
Thanks Don, appreciate the information.
Ray M.
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hi,
I needed a pressure regulator for my 500S 3 years ago and the only on
available was an overhauled one on a shelf in Indianna for $5000.00 PLUS
a $3000.00 core charge if mine was rebuildable.
Apparently there is only one place that rebuilds them and there are some
parts in there that are not available any more and have to be
"machined".
Luckily mine was rebuildable and I was able to recover my core charge.
Good luck.
I still have half of a rear door hinge that cost me $950.00. I was able
to have the broken one welded but was unable to return the new 1/2
because 2 weeks had elapsed.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:39 AM
To: Commander List
Subject: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hello,
I am in need of an overhaul of a pressure reducer from the hydraulic
system of an Aero Commander 680FLP, Mr. RPM conversion. The pump
pressure is about 3,000 psi and the aircraft system works around 1,000
psi. Had the pressure go to 2,000 psi recently and broke a line. Most
recent runup was OK but I don't trust it now. Have had two complete
hydraulic failures this year, don't want any more.
Maintenance guys have found someone to overhaul, but it's around
$5,500 (ripoff price) and 45-60 days. I can't believe a pressure
reducer is that complicated an item..
Does anyone have a pressure reducer for sale...sorry I don't have a
part number at the moment. Experienced Commander folks will probably
know what I need, but I can get the part #.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Date: Jun 30, 2010
I have one
Harry Merritt
321 267-3141
----- Original Message -----
From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hi,
I needed a pressure regulator for my 500S 3 years ago and the only on
available was an overhauled one on a shelf in Indianna for $5000.00 PLUS
a $3000.00 core charge if mine was rebuildable.
Apparently there is only one place that rebuilds them and there are
some parts in there that are not available any more and have to be
"machined".
Luckily mine was rebuildable and I was able to recover my core charge.
Good luck.
I still have half of a rear door hinge that cost me $950.00. I was
able to have the broken one welded but was unable to return the new 1/2
because 2 weeks had elapsed.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ray
Mansfield
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:39 AM
To: Commander List
Subject: Commander-List: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
Hello,
I am in need of an overhaul of a pressure reducer from the
hydraulic system of an Aero Commander 680FLP, Mr. RPM conversion. The
pump pressure is about 3,000 psi and the aircraft system works around
1,000 psi. Had the pressure go to 2,000 psi recently and broke a line.
Most recent runup was OK but I don't trust it now. Have had two
complete hydraulic failures this year, don't want any more.
Maintenance guys have found someone to overhaul, but it's around
$5,500 (ripoff price) and 45-60 days. I can't believe a pressure
reducer is that complicated an item..
Does anyone have a pressure reducer for sale...sorry I don't have a
part number at the moment. Experienced Commander folks will probably
know what I need, but I can get the part #.
Thanks,
Ray Mansfield
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: If your ears were burning it is because.....................
From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2010
Monday afternoon there was a knock at my front door.
When I opened it there stood Bill Bow.
We spent the evening getting drunk and looking at Photos from the Oregon and South
Carolina Flyins and talked about each and everyone of you who were there.
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303155#303155
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dcp_0220_115.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If your ears were burning it is because.....................
Date: Jun 30, 2010
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
We spent the evening getting drunk and looking at Photos from the Oregon
and
South Carolina Flyins and talked about each and everyone of you who were
there.
How drunk were you Lads? Tipsy enough to say nice things about us or blo
tto enough to tell the truth?
Keith S. Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: If your ears were burning it is because....................
From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Jun 30, 2010
We started Tipsy, got blotto and hell I can't remember anymore than that. [Embarassed]
[Rolling Eyes]
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303188#303188
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin Comma
nder fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro Orego
n. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We already
have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen museum in
Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a dinner
on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!. Pla
n to be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals af
ter the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family,
from San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wai
t to see them. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2010
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us take
the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has a
seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I saw
you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think. Hillsboro is
what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro
Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We
already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen
museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a
dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!.
Plan to be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals
after the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family,
from San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait
to see them. jb
*
*
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 01, 2010
I will update the website accordingly. You deserve an update on what's
happening on the site, too.
We are doing some final testing on a new site that affords members and
visitors many new features of the latest technology. Once we are ready to
beta-test the site, I'll forward you a link where you can check it out and
give your feedback. After having spent almost two years working on it (time
didn't always cooperate) I am getting more excited about the site every day
we are working on it. I sincerely hope that you would, too, once you see
it.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FLY-IN
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro
Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We
already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen
museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a
dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!.
Plan to be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals
after the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family,
from San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait
to see them. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
G'day Jim
Great news and count this Ossie in!!
Will look forward to Hillsboro...10 years on...
Sure would be good to see a whole bunch of 'old hands'...and new folk too!!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
It will be great to see all of you as well!! Wont be long now. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au
Sent: Fri, Jul 2, 2010 2:02 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
G'day Jim
Great news and count this Ossie in!!
Will look forward to Hillsboro...10 years on...
Sure would be good to see a whole bunch of 'old hands'...and new folk too!
!
heers from Oz
Russell
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
THANKS NICO, for all you hard work!! Any chance you can make this years
fly in?? jb
-----Original Message-----
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 11:34 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FLY-IN
I will update the website accordingly. You deserve an update on what's hap
pening on the site, too.
We are doing some final testing on a new site that affords members and vis
itors many new features of the latest technology. Once we are ready to bet
a-test the site, I'll forward you a link where you can check it out and gi
ve your feedback. After having spent almost two years working on it (time
didn't always cooperate) I am getting more excited about the site every
day we are working on it. I sincerely hope that you would, too, once you
see it.
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: FLY-IN
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin Comma
nder fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro Orego
n. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We already
have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen museum in
Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a dinner
on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!. Pla
n to be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals af
ter the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family,
from San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wai
t to see them. jb
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1 Yep
, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel there
each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy and has
a wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us take
the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has a sea
plane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I saw
you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think. Hillsboro is
what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin Comma
nder fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro Orego
n. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We already
have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen museum in
Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a dinner
on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!. Pla
n to be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals af
ter the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family,
from San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wai
t to see them. jb
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 02, 2010
J B and Group,
Regrettably, I will not be able to attend the fly in this year. Many of
you may agree that things have gone terribly wrong in our country in the
last 18 months. After a lot of thought I felt that it was time for me
to do more than just 'give my support' to someone who will help change
the way things are going in our country. Tom Mullins
(www.mullinsforcongress.com), a very conservative and Christian
gentlemen from here in Farmington, NM is running for the US House of
Representatives, and I am working full time (his only full time
volunteer) in the campaign. I feel a deep sense of dedication to what I
am doing.
Our opponent votes with Nancy Pelosi 98.5% of the time, receives heaps
of Union and PACT (including AOPA PACT) money and will probably outspend
us by over five to one. The latest Magellan poll shows 42% for Tom and
43% for the opposition. Tom won the Republican primary by 72% to 28%
even though the other Republican spent over twice as much on his
campaign.
The third congressional district here in New Mexico is larger than the
entire state of Pennsylvania, so the amount of travel is almost
unbelievable. Last week I drove over 2,500 miles in my truck with Tom,
and don't expect to be back home for a couple of weeks. Many of our days
start at 5:00 AM and end after 10:00 PM. Due to the lay out of the
district flying just don't work for us most of the time.
Certainly, it would be great to fly up there and be with all of my old
friends but there just will not be time.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel
there each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy
and has a wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us
take the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has
a seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I
saw you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think.
Hillsboro is what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in
Hillsboro Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great
facility. We already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to
the Evergreen museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We
are also planning a dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun
and informative stuff!!. Plan to be there. We will be sending
information on rooms and car rentals after the 4th. Hope to see you
there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, from San Juan PR, are in
rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to see them. jb
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 04, 2010
From: "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com>
Moe,
Good luck and God speed!
We will certainly miss you - but your cause is worthy!
Regards,
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B.
Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
J B and Group,
Regrettably, I will not be able to attend the fly in this year. Many of
you may agree that things have gone terribly wrong in our country in the
last 18 months. After a lot of thought I felt that it was time for me
to do more than just 'give my support' to someone who will help change
the way things are going in our country. Tom Mullins
(www.mullinsforcongress.com), a very conservative and Christian
gentlemen from here in Farmington, NM is running for the US House of
Representatives, and I am working full time (his only full time
volunteer) in the campaign. I feel a deep sense of dedication to what I
am doing.
Our opponent votes with Nancy Pelosi 98.5% of the time, receives heaps
of Union and PACT (including AOPA PACT) money and will probably outspend
us by over five to one. The latest Magellan poll shows 42% for Tom and
43% for the opposition. Tom won the Republican primary by 72% to 28%
even though the other Republican spent over twice as much on his
campaign.
The third congressional district here in New Mexico is larger than the
entire state of Pennsylvania, so the amount of travel is almost
unbelievable. Last week I drove over 2,500 miles in my truck with Tom,
and don't expect to be back home for a couple of weeks. Many of our days
start at 5:00 AM and end after 10:00 PM. Due to the lay out of the
district flying just don't work for us most of the time.
Certainly, it would be great to fly up there and be with all of my old
friends but there just will not be time.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel
there each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy
and has a wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us
take the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has
a seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I
saw you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think.
Hillsboro is what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010
Twin Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in
Hillsboro Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great
facility. We already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to
the Evergreen museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We
are also planning a dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun
and informative stuff!!. Plan to be there. We will be sending
information on rooms and car rentals after the 4th. Hope to see you
there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, from San Juan PR, are in
rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to see them. jb
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 04, 2010
Hi Moe,
Indeed, you'll be sorely missed.
But, this isn't a way out of being awarded the Golden Pedal Award again,
is it?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steele, Bob
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Moe,
Good luck and God speed!
We will certainly miss you - but your cause is worthy!
Regards,
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B.
Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:05 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
J B and Group,
Regrettably, I will not be able to attend the fly in this year. Many
of you may agree that things have gone terribly wrong in our country in
the last 18 months. After a lot of thought I felt that it was time for
me to do more than just 'give my support' to someone who will help
change the way things are going in our country. Tom Mullins
(www.mullinsforcongress.com), a very conservative and Christian
gentlemen from here in Farmington, NM is running for the US House of
Representatives, and I am working full time (his only full time
volunteer) in the campaign. I feel a deep sense of dedication to what I
am doing.
Our opponent votes with Nancy Pelosi 98.5% of the time, receives heaps
of Union and PACT (including AOPA PACT) money and will probably outspend
us by over five to one. The latest Magellan poll shows 42% for Tom and
43% for the opposition. Tom won the Republican primary by 72% to 28%
even though the other Republican spent over twice as much on his
campaign.
The third congressional district here in New Mexico is larger than the
entire state of Pennsylvania, so the amount of travel is almost
unbelievable. Last week I drove over 2,500 miles in my truck with Tom,
and don't expect to be back home for a couple of weeks. Many of our days
start at 5:00 AM and end after 10:00 PM. Due to the lay out of the
district flying just don't work for us most of the time.
Certainly, it would be great to fly up there and be with all of my old
friends but there just will not be time.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:31 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel
there each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy
and has a wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us
take the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has
a seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I
saw you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think.
Hillsboro is what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in
Hillsboro Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great
facility. We already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to
the Evergreen museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We
are also planning a dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun
and informative stuff!!. Plan to be there. We will be sending
information on rooms and car rentals after the 4th. Hope to see you
there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, from San Juan PR, are in
rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to see them. jb
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listtp://f
orums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listtp://for
ums.matronics.com_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack B. Mills" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Date: Jul 04, 2010
Barry, Bob and all,
Since I will not be there perhaps it is time to "fess up" and admit that
earlier in the year two sets of Commander rudder pedals were purchased,
and as soon as my assistant gets back from vacation (only I am so
incompetent that an assistant is required just to be retired) she is
going to made three or four Golden Pedal awards. Originally the idea
was to bring a couple of them to the fly in and we could auction them
off for our charity auction and of course one would be kept by myself
for bragging rights. Should these be shipped to J.B.?
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680Fp
From: Barry Collman
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Hi Moe,
Indeed, you'll be sorely missed.
But, this isn't a way out of being awarded the Golden Pedal Award again,
is it?
Very Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steele, Bob
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Moe,
Good luck and God speed!
We will certainly miss you - but your cause is worthy!
Regards,
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B.
Mills
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:05 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
J B and Group,
Regrettably, I will not be able to attend the fly in this year. Many
of you may agree that things have gone terribly wrong in our country in
the last 18 months. After a lot of thought I felt that it was time for
me to do more than just 'give my support' to someone who will help
change the way things are going in our country. Tom Mullins
(www.mullinsforcongress.com), a very conservative and Christian
gentlemen from here in Farmington, NM is running for the US House of
Representatives, and I am working full time (his only full time
volunteer) in the campaign. I feel a deep sense of dedication to what I
am doing.
Our opponent votes with Nancy Pelosi 98.5% of the time, receives heaps
of Union and PACT (including AOPA PACT) money and will probably outspend
us by over five to one. The latest Magellan poll shows 42% for Tom and
43% for the opposition. Tom won the Republican primary by 72% to 28%
even though the other Republican spent over twice as much on his
campaign.
The third congressional district here in New Mexico is larger than the
entire state of Pennsylvania, so the amount of travel is almost
unbelievable. Last week I drove over 2,500 miles in my truck with Tom,
and don't expect to be back home for a couple of weeks. Many of our days
start at 5:00 AM and end after 10:00 PM. Due to the lay out of the
district flying just don't work for us most of the time.
Certainly, it would be great to fly up there and be with all of my old
friends but there just will not be time.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:31 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel
there each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy
and has a wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us
take the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has
a seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I
saw you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think.
Hillsboro is what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in
Hillsboro Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great
facility. We already have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to
the Evergreen museum in Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We
are also planning a dinner on a stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun
and informative stuff!!. Plan to be there. We will be sending
information on rooms and car rentals after the 4th. Hope to see you
there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, from San Juan PR, are in
rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to see them. jb
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listtp://f
orums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listtp://for
ums.matronics.com_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly-in 2010
Date: Jul 05, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
David,
This year's Fly-in will be held at Hillsboro, Oregon (near Portland) Septe
mber 9-12. More information will be posted on the site later this month.
Hope you can join us.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Fitzgerald <DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Fly-in 2010
Hi list
Has anyone got any preliminary news on when and where the fly-in might be
this year?
David
Dr David Fitzgerald
BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) DipAvMed(Otago) ACCAM(Monash) MHeathSci(OccMed)
FAFOEM(RACP)
Consultant Occupational Physician
Occupational, Legal and Aviation Medicine
DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com
Mob 0438 312973
========================
===========
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 10, 2010
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Fight the good fight Moe!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 7/4/2010 11:04:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com writes:
Moe,
Good luck and God speed!
We will certainly miss you =93 but your cause is worthy!
Regards,
Bob
____________________________________
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Mi
lls
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
J B and Group,
Regrettably, I will not be able to attend the fly in this year. Many of
you may agree that things have gone terribly wrong in our country in the
last 18 months. After a lot of thought I felt that it was time for me to
do
more than just 'give my support' to someone who will help change the way
things are going in our country. Tom Mullins (_www.mullinsforcongress.co
m_
(http://www.mullinsforcongress.com/) ), a very conservative and Christian
gentlemen from here in Farmington, NM is running for the US House of
Representatives, and I am working full time (his only full time volunteer
) in the
campaign. I feel a deep sense of dedication to what I am doing.
Our opponent votes with Nancy Pelosi 98.5% of the time, receives heaps of
Union and PACT (including AOPA PACT) money and will probably outspend us
by
over five to one. The latest Magellan poll shows 42% for Tom and 43% for
the opposition. Tom won the Republican primary by 72% to 28% even though
the other Republican spent over twice as much on his campaign.
The third congressional district here in New Mexico is larger than the
entire state of Pennsylvania, so the amount of travel is almost unbelieva
ble.
Last week I drove over 2,500 miles in my truck with Tom, and don't expect
to be back home for a couple of weeks. Many of our days start at 5:00 AM
and
end after 10:00 PM. Due to the lay out of the district flying just don't
work for us most of the time.
Certainly, it would be great to fly up there and be with all of my old
friends but there just will not be time.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
From: _yourtcfg(at)aol.com_ (mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel the
re
each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy and has
a
wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us tak
e
the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has a
seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I saw
you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think. Hillsboro is
what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, <_yourtcfg(at)aol.com_ (mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com) >
wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro
Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We al
ready
have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen museum in
Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a dinner
on a
stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!. Plan to
be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals after
the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, fr
om
San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to
see
them. jb
" target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 10, 2010
Subject: Re: FLY-IN
Man, I can't believe it. I will be in Hillsboro for the Air show two weeks
before!. I will not be able to come back to the Fly in. Nuts!
Bill Leff
In a message dated 7/2/2010 12:39:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes:
WILL DO. For those new to the list, Jimmy Rodriguez owns 500B, S/N 1
Yep, the very first 500B.. It resides with him in SJ, P.R. I travel there
each year to do the annual inspection for him. He is a great guy and has a
wonderful family. We are looking forward to their visit. jb
"hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 10:49 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: FLY-IN
Jim, put me on the list. I'm in for sure!
Since we're all ME (and high wing) pilots, do you think they'd let us take
the spruce goose for a spin? I'm sure that someone in the group has a
seaplane rating...
Say "hi" to Jimmy for me. I haven't seen him in a few years.
Cheers,
John
PS: Wing Commander Gordon, your presence is required. The last time I saw
you was the original Aero Air fly-in a decade ago, I think. Hillsboro is
what, 45 minutes from Vegas in a Falcon?
sent by my DROID. Please pardon any typos.
On Jul 1, 2010 10:39 PM, <_yourtcfg(at)aol.com_ (mailto:yourtcfg(at)aol.com) >
wrote:
HI KIDS...Well, I can finally officially announce that the 2010 Twin
Commander fly-in will be held Sept 9-10-11, 2010 at Aero Air in Hillsboro
Oregon. This is the site of our first flyin and a great facility. We already
have some great speakers in mind and a fly out to the Evergreen museum in
Mcminville OR, home of the Spruce Goose!!. We are also planning a dinner on a
stern wheeler (TBA) and some other fun and informative stuff!!. Plan to
be there. We will be sending information on rooms and car rentals after
the 4th. Hope to see you there!! jb. PS Jimmy Rodriguez and family, from
San Juan PR, are in rout to visit Sue and I over the 4th, Can't wait to see
them. jb
" target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==================================== tp://forums.matronics.com
==================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 10, 2010
Subject: Re: AC 680FLP Pressure reducer
What is the part number? I may have one.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 6/30/2010 8:04:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
Hi,
I needed a pressure regulator for my 500S 3 years ago and the only on
available was an overhauled one on a shelf in Indianna for $5000.00 PLUS a
$3000.00 core charge if mine was rebuildable.
Apparently there is only one place that rebuilds them and there are some
parts in there that are not available any more and have to be "machined".