Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ff
July 15, 2012 - March 29, 2013
Commander-Archive.digest.vol-ff
July 15, 2012 - March 29, 2013
On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:03 PM, cybersuperstore wrote:
Hi, Tylor.
Why don't you upload them onto the Commander Facebook page?
If you do it under your name, it will break the monotony of the
administrator publishing most of the articles. It's a great story with great
pictures and it should make for a good read.
www.facebook.com/commanderflight
Our audience on the facebook page is growing. According to the metrics, just
under 1,000 people per week are reading stuff on the site. It proves that it
is about content, content, content. If you have Commander stories, please
visit the site and "Like" it, if you haven't done so already, and publish
your story.
Thanks,
Nico
From: Tylor Hall [mailto:tylorhall(at)mac.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:58 PM
Cc: css nico
Subject: mmander #1 no photos
I was as Francis Tuttle and have a bunch of photos of this aircraft.
Did you get them?
It was a large batch and you may want to put them on the web site?
Tylor Hall
tylorhall(at)mac.com
First Fueling Systems, Inc.
100 Iron St. SE
Albuquerque, NM 87102
505-400-8373 Cell
505-247-3001
505-247-3005 FAX
www.firstfueling.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 2012
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A>>=0A>>Subject: FW: V-12 DIESEL=0A>>=0A>>Wish this was in
English=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>________________________________=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>_____
___________________________=0A>>=0A>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>
=0A>>>>>-=0A>>>>>If you don't love this one, you have not the soul of a t
rue gear head.OPERATIONAL V-12 DIESEL ENGINE- THAT FITS IN THE PALM OF YO
UR HAND.This is not CNC technology; this- guy made everything at home on
hislathe and drill press.- Took 1220 hours (a year and a half?) to maketh
e 261 pieces.- Note the end-loaded crankshaft into the block (likean- O
ffy), 12 individual cylinder heads,- TINY-- rods and pistons,dual "un
der head" cams with pushrods to- rockers in the heads.- And, hedid brea
k-in using an- electric drill driving the crankshaft!Even if you're not a
n engineer,- you'll love this!http://www.wimp.com/tiniestengine/=0A>>>>>
-=0A>>>>>-=0A>>>>>-=0A>>>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>-=0A>>>- -
=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>________________________________=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Interna
2/23/11 12:34:00 -=0A>>> =0A>>>-=0A>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
Date: Jul 15, 2012
That is absolutely amazing. I would have to build a tiny big rig to put it
in if it were mine.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:46 PM
Subject: Commander-List: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
Subject: FW: V-12 DIESEL
Wish this was in English
If you don't love this one, you have not the soul of a true gear
head.OPERATIONAL V-12 DIESEL ENGINE THAT FITS IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND.This
is not CNC technology; this guy made everything at home on hislathe and
drill press. Took 1220 hours (a year and a half?) to makethe 261 pieces.
Note the end-loaded crankshaft into the block (likean Offy), 12 individual
cylinder heads, TINY rods and pistons,dual "under head" cams with
pushrods to rockers in the heads. And, hedid break-in using an electric
drill driving the crankshaft!Even if you're not an engineer, you'll love
this! <http://www.wimp.com/tiniestengine/>
http://www.wimp.com/tiniestengine/
http://www.avg.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
Date: Jul 15, 2012
Anyone figure out how he lubricated the crankshaft & journals ?
----- Original Message -----
From: John Vormbaum<mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB
COMMANDERS
That is absolutely amazing. I would have to build a tiny big rig to
put it in if it were mine.
From:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Farmer
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:46 PM
Subject: Commander-List: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
Subject: FW: V-12 DIESEL
Wish this was in English
If you don't love this one, you have not
the soul of a true gear head.OPERATIONAL V-12 DIESEL ENGINE THAT FITS
IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND.This is not CNC technology; this guy made
everything at home on hislathe and drill press. Took 1220 hours (a year
and a half?) to makethe 261 pieces. Note the end-loaded crankshaft into
the block (likean Offy), 12 individual cylinder heads, TINY rods and
pistons,dual "under head" cams with pushrods to rockers in the heads.
And, hedid break-in using an electric drill driving the crankshaft!Even
if you're not an engineer, you'll love
this!http://www.wimp.com/tiniestengine/
/>
http://www.avg.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 2012
Subject: Re: LIGHT WEIGHT DIESEL FOR BUTHTUB COMMANDERS
From: blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com
Very pretty. A lot of work went into that.
People who saw my buddy Ace and my latest project showed us that video
several times. We didn't make anything that pretty (or tiny) but ours
actually turns gas into noise.
Oh, and it's made largely out of smelted beer cans!
http://beercanengines.info
Brock
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Subject: FW: V-12 DIESEL
>>>
>>>Wish this was in English
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you don't love this one, you have not the soul of a true gear
>>>>>> head.OPERATIONAL V-12 DIESEL ENGINE THAT FITS IN THE PALM OF YOUR
>>>>>> HAND.This is not CNC technology; this guy made everything at home on
>>>>>> hislathe and drill press. Took 1220 hours (a year and a half?) to
>>>>>> makethe 261 pieces. Note the end-loaded crankshaft into the block
>>>>>> (likean Offy), 12 individual cylinder heads, TINY rods and
>>>>>> pistons,dual "under head" cams with pushrods to rockers in the
>>>>>> heads. And, hedid break-in using an electric drill driving the
>>>>>> crankshaft!Even if you're not an engineer, you'll love
>>>>>> this!http://www.wimp.com/tiniestengine/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Interna2/23/11 12:34:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l
ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O
K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the
Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun
d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm
ander/680FP/987942.html
I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp
ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C
outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C
fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight
500 series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely=2C
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda
ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to
liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f
rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy
to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc
eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r
emember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa
ntayana.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
I've never owned a Twin Commander, so I can't say how they compare, but I've
owned and flown a Beech B60 Duke a 59P Baron and a few 601P and 700
Aerostars. The pressurization system required minimal maintenance and those
planes all have pretty well tested power plants, so I didn't see anything
out of the ordinary in the way of expensive maintenance. The Duke and 58P
Baron had similar speed and climb profiles; you could expect to climb at
1000 - 1500 FPM to FL200 and then from there up much less climb. Cruise
speeds were in the 200-225 knot TAS range; the Duke burned around 50 gph,
the 58P 32-36 gph.
The Aerostar is a whole other animal; much much faster, with cruise speeds
ranging from 220-260 knots TAS, fuel burn from 32-40 gph. The Aerostar is a
much more efficient aircraft at any altitude and really blows the Beech
planes into the weeds during climb and descent with a redline of over 200
knots indicated and climbing at 1500-2000 fpm @ 150 - 160 knots indicated.
I like the Aerostar best and I like an intercooled 601P better than a 700.
The 700 is faster, but it burns a lot more fuel and has no more range.
Also; Ted Smith designed and built the Aerostar, so I consider it as a part
of the same family as the Twin Commander.
Anyway, that's my experience; hope it helps.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zac
Armstrong
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP
/987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 680FP
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Moe Mills who owns one will prob come along soon and answer what you need to know.
However, I can tell you that the FP uses a hydraulic driven pressurization
system that can be a little harder to get parts for. The IGSO-engines are also
quite highly strung and will prob need some top end work before they reach TBO.
Lovely plane and I've been keeping an eye on them myself...
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378650#378650
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Hi Zac=2C Regarding your post=2C I have been flying a 680F(p) for several y
ears (about 1=2C000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (
310) 350-4594 EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST=2C If you received a bogus e
mail from me yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to every
one in my laptop. Moe MillsN680RR680F(p)
From: transam403(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed=2C 18 Jul 2012 15:57:18 +0000
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l
ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O
K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the
Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun
d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm
ander/680FP/987942.html
I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp
ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C
outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C
fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight
500 series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely=2C
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda
ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to
liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f
rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy
to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc
eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r
emember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa
ntayana.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BillLeff1(at)aol.com" <BillLeff1(at)aol.com>
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Subject: Re: 680FP
I have known 72X for more than 15 years. If you have any questions call me
at 937-369-3334 later tonight
It is a good one
Bill Leff
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid
-----Original message-----
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 18, 2012 15:58:43 GMT+00:00
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP/
987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Hi Kerry,
That's what I suspected about the Aerostars. Didn't know the 601P was a more
efficient configuration than the 700. Ted knew how to put the forces of
nature together minimum conflict.
Thanks for the response. We would like to have a story of your flights for
our facebook page, if you don't mind.
Go to www.facebook.com/commanderflight and LIKE the site. No signup
required.
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
I've never owned a Twin Commander, so I can't say how they compare, but I've
owned and flown a Beech B60 Duke a 59P Baron and a few 601P and 700
Aerostars. The pressurization system required minimal maintenance and those
planes all have pretty well tested power plants, so I didn't see anything
out of the ordinary in the way of expensive maintenance. The Duke and 58P
Baron had similar speed and climb profiles; you could expect to climb at
1000 - 1500 FPM to FL200 and then from there up much less climb. Cruise
speeds were in the 200-225 knot TAS range; the Duke burned around 50 gph,
the 58P 32-36 gph.
The Aerostar is a whole other animal; much much faster, with cruise speeds
ranging from 220-260 knots TAS, fuel burn from 32-40 gph. The Aerostar is a
much more efficient aircraft at any altitude and really blows the Beech
planes into the weeds during climb and descent with a redline of over 200
knots indicated and climbing at 1500-2000 fpm @ 150 - 160 knots indicated.
I like the Aerostar best and I like an intercooled 601P better than a 700.
The 700 is faster, but it burns a lot more fuel and has no more range.
Also; Ted Smith designed and built the Aerostar, so I consider it as a part
of the same family as the Twin Commander.
Anyway, that's my experience; hope it helps.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zac
Armstrong
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP
/987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Hi Moe,
Would you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It would be
such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pilots.
I noticed that as I publish something, the visit-rate spikes, so it is about
content, content, content.
The Commander facebook page is at www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when
you are in, just LIKE the page and write or paste your story.
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Hi Zac,
Regarding your post, I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (about
1,000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4594
EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST, If you received a bogus email from me
yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my
laptop.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: transam403(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:57:18 +0000
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP
/987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Hi Nico=2C I will try to put something together and post it=2C even though
I don't really have any horror stories to speak of. Regards=2C Moe
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed=2C 18 Jul 2012 20:00:10 -0700
Hi Moe=2CWould you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It w
ould be such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pi
lots. I noticed that as I publish something=2C the visit-rate spikes=2C so
it is about content=2C content=2C content. The Commander facebook page is a
t www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when you are in=2C just LIKE the pag
e and write or paste your story. Thanks=2CNico From: owner-commander-list-
server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: Wednesday=2C July 18=2C 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Zac=2C
Regarding your post=2C I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (abou
t 1=2C000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4
594
EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST=2C If you received a bogus email from me y
esterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my lapt
op.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
From: transam403(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed=2C 18 Jul 2012 15:57:18 +0000Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l
ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O
K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the
Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun
d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm
ander/680FP/987942.html
I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp
ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C
outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C
fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight
500 series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely=2C
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bond
age to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage t
o liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B
from selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apath
y to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the ex
ception to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not
remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts
from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. st" target="_
blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matro
nics.com="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.mat
ronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 18, 2012
Thanks, Moe. No need for horror stories, folks enjoy nicely written regular
flights, too.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Hi Nico,
I will try to put something together and post it, even though I don't really
have any horror stories to speak of.
Regards,
Moe
_____
From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:00:10 -0700
Hi Moe,
Would you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It would be
such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pilots.
I noticed that as I publish something, the visit-rate spikes, so it is about
content, content, content.
The Commander facebook page is at www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when
you are in, just LIKE the page and write or paste your story.
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Hi Zac,
Regarding your post, I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (about
1,000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4594
EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST, If you received a bogus email from me
yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my
laptop.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
_____
From: transam403(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:57:18 +0000
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP
/987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Jul 19, 2012
I'll check out the facebook page and like it.
Most all my flying has been for business reasons with a few personal /
family flights and most all were just normal boring flights; sitting in the
pilot seat monitoring the aircraft systems while auto did his job. For
example, I flew from KSGU to KILE and back twice a week for about 18
months. In the Aerostar 601P that was a 3.75 - 4 hour flight to KILE and a
4.5 - 5 hour flight back to KSGU with a fuel stop at KAEG. The only one of
those flight of note I recall is on one trip heading back to SGU; VFR @
12,500' ATC advised that I had a flight of a number military aircraft coming
at me at 12:00 and 12000'. It turned out to be a flight of 10 or 12, F-117
Nighthawks in single file and each and every one of those pilots gave me a
salute as they passed 500' directly below me! It was pretty dang kewl!. This
would have been back in 1998-2000.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cybersuperstore
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
Hi Kerry,
That's what I suspected about the Aerostars. Didn't know the 601P was a more
efficient configuration than the 700. Ted knew how to put the forces of
nature together minimum conflict.
Thanks for the response. We would like to have a story of your flights for
our facebook page, if you don't mind.
Go to www.facebook.com/commanderflight and LIKE the site. No signup
required.
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP
I've never owned a Twin Commander, so I can't say how they compare, but I've
owned and flown a Beech B60 Duke a 59P Baron and a few 601P and 700
Aerostars. The pressurization system required minimal maintenance and those
planes all have pretty well tested power plants, so I didn't see anything
out of the ordinary in the way of expensive maintenance. The Duke and 58P
Baron had similar speed and climb profiles; you could expect to climb at
1000 - 1500 FPM to FL200 and then from there up much less climb. Cruise
speeds were in the 200-225 knot TAS range; the Duke burned around 50 gph,
the 58P 32-36 gph.
The Aerostar is a whole other animal; much much faster, with cruise speeds
ranging from 220-260 knots TAS, fuel burn from 32-40 gph. The Aerostar is a
much more efficient aircraft at any altitude and really blows the Beech
planes into the weeds during climb and descent with a redline of over 200
knots indicated and climbing at 1500-2000 fpm @ 150 - 160 knots indicated.
I like the Aerostar best and I like an intercooled 601P better than a 700.
The 700 is faster, but it burns a lot more fuel and has no more range.
Also; Ted Smith designed and built the Aerostar, so I consider it as a part
of the same family as the Twin Commander.
Anyway, that's my experience; hope it helps.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zac
Armstrong
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 680FP
Hello All.
I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is
looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK.
In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero
Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc.
I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found
online:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP
/987942.html
I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex,
pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance,
especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said,
outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel
burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500
series aircraft.
Thanks in advance and have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zac Armstrong
936-577-1117
Allegiance Aviation Services
www.allegianceaviation.com
zac(at)allegianceaviation.com
All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from
bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from
selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to
dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception
to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the
past are condemned to repeat it.
-Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George
Santayana.
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/images/null.gif>
<http://www.b-25yellowrose.com/membership/default.asp> Commemorative Air
Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FORM 337
Date: Jul 23, 2012
Sir Barry=2C Without too much trouble=2C could you tell me how many 337 For
ms have been issued for my plane? I don't need a list=2C just how many. D
o you need the previous "N" numbers or do they carry over on the records? N
680RRSerial #1361-139 Best regards Moe Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: FORM 337
Date: Jul 23, 2012
Hi Moe,
I'm unable to tell you, I'm afraid.
I don't track all the Form 337 data, just the ones that change the external
appearance of the plane, or its usage.
So, things like new radios or avionics etc I don't keep a record of.
The FAA database, via the link
Http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp, shows:
86 pages of Registration documents
72 pages of Airworthiness documents
4 pages of Suspense documents.
But, I think these page counts include the reverse of each document, so you
can, I think, halve the numbers.
Of course, in the Airworthiness section there'll be a few documents other
than Forms 337, including the original Certificate of Airworthiness and any
renewals etc.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: 23 July 2012 16:05
Subject: Commander-List: FORM 337
Sir Barry,
Without too much trouble, could you tell me how many 337 Forms have been
issued for my plane? I don't need a list, just how many. Do you need the
previous "N" numbers or do they carry over on the records?
N680RR
Serial #1361-139
Best regards
Moe Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it sl
ow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Jim,
Happy Birthday! It always gladdens me to know that although you may be
getting older, you have successfully resisted the temptation to grow up ;-).
/J
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Happy birthday, Jim Bob. It's scary when one's inner child becomes eligible
for AARP benefits, huh?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Are you telling me that given the option of =9CGrowing Up=9D
or becoming a =9CPilot=9D, he made the correct choice?
God Bless & Happy Birthday, Don
From: cybersuperstore
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Happy birthday, Jim Bob. It's scary when one's inner child becomes
eligible for AARP benefits, huh?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim Bob Turns 60
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Congrats, Jim!
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379257#379257
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 26, 2012
Hehehe. I suppose he did. He remained a pilot.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dongirod(at)bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Are you telling me that given the option of =9CGrowing Up=9D
or becoming a =9CPilot=9D, he made the correct choice?
God Bless & Happy Birthday, Don
From: cybersuperstore <mailto:nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Happy birthday, Jim Bob. It's scary when one's inner child becomes
eligible for AARP benefits, huh?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 26, 2012
On the glorious occasion of your 60th, here is a birthday wish for you:
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked, the good
fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Happy Birthday, Captain Jim Bob!
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2012
Subject: Re: Jim Bob Turns 60
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Birthday greetings from Oz - Happy Birthday Jim!!! Make sure to find time
for a special celebration!
Cheers
Russell
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM, wrote:
> Jim Bob says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it
> slow him down any as he's still very young at heart.
>
> Happy Birthday to Jim Bob!!!
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Jul 27, 2012
Happy birthday Jim Bob! Moe
From: dongirod(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Date: Thu=2C 26 Jul 2012 14:31:20 -0400
Are you telling me that given the option of =93Growing Up=94 or becoming a
=93Pilot=94=2C he made the correct choice?
God Bless & Happy Birthday=2C Don
From: cybersuperstore
Sent: Thursday=2C July 26=2C 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60
Happy
birthday=2C Jim Bob. It's scary when one's inner child becomes eligible for
AARP
benefits=2C huh?
From:
owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday=2C July 26=2C 2012 8:16
AM
Subject: Commander-List:
Jim Bob Turns 60
Jim Bob
says goodbye 50's and hello 60's today! But he isn't letting it slow him
down any as he's still very young at heart.
Happy
Birthday to Jim Bob!!! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listht
tp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2012
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 07/27/12
Happy Birthday to the Sour Apple.- I already thought you were in your 70s
since your such a ............whatever!!!!=0A=0A =0A=0A___________________
_____________=0A From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list@matroni
cs.com>=0ATo: Commander-List Digest List =0ASent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 12:56 AM=0ASubject: Commander-List Dig
est: 1 Msgs - 07/27/12=0A =0A*=0A=0A============
==============0A- Online Versions of Today's L
ist Digest Archive=0A==================
========0A=0AToday's complete Commander-List Digest can also
be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file
includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and
features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file i
ncludes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Commander-List Digest and can be
viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser.
=0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestvie
w.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-07-27&Archive=Commander=0A
=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.ph
p?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-07-27&Archive=Commander=0A=0A
=0A========================
=========================0A
- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A=======
=================0A=0A=0A- - - -
- ----------------------------------------------------------=0A- -
- - - - - - - - - - - Commander-List Digest Archive
=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Fr
i 07/27/12: 1=0A- - - - - --------------------------------------
--------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A---------------------
-=0A=0A- - 1. 09:42 PM - Re: Jim Bob Turns 60- (Moe Mills)=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________- Message 1- _______________________
pistons(at)hotmail.com>=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60=0A=0A
=0AHappy birthday Jim Bob!- Moe=0AFrom: dongirod(at)bellsouth.net=0ASubject
: Re: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60=0A=0A=0AAre you telling me that give
n the option of =93Growing Up=94 or becoming a=0A=0A=93Pilot=94=2
C he made the correct choice?=0A=0AGod Bless & Happy Birthday=2C Don=0A
=0A=0AFrom: cybersuperstore =0ASent: Thursday=2C July 26=2C 2012 1:23 P
M=0A=0ASubject: RE: Commander-List: Jim Bob Turns 60=0A=0A=0AHappy =0Abirth
day=2C Jim Bob. It's scary when one's inner child becomes eligible for=0A
AARP =0Abenefits=2C huh?=0A=0A=0AFrom: =0Aowner-commander-list-server@mat
ronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of =0Ayourtcfg(at)aol.com=0ASent: Thursday=2C July 26=2C 2012 8:16 =0AAM
=0ASubject: Commander-List: =0AJim Bob Turns 60=0A=0A=0AJim Bob =0Asays goo
dbye 50's and hello 60's today!- But he isn't letting it slow him =0Adown
any as he's still very young at heart.- =0A=0A=0AHappy =0ABirthday to Ji
m Bob!!!- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listht=0Atp://foru
ms.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0Ahref="http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro/=0Anics.com/Na
vigator?Commander-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.com/=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www
.matronics.com/c=0A=0A=0A--- --- --- - --- -
=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RENO
Date: Jul 30, 2012
J.B. As one of your more skilled Commander Drivers=2C I wish to know at wh
at time of day on Wednesday=2C September 12=2C I should plan my landing at
CXP. It seems that in recent years the dreaded Golden Pedal Award has been
presented to persons who are=2C in fact=2C not deserving of same. Apparent
ly=2C you and Mr. Morris Kernick have been derelict in your duties to be th
ere to properly judge the skill (or lack there of) of we hero handlers of C
ommanders as we arrive. Since you have not actually witnessed=2C and there
fore been able to properly judge our ability=2C rumor has it that you have
largely relied upon Bar Room Jokes=2C and third handed reports from those w
ho merely want to make themselves appear to be more capable (or less incapa
ble)=2C than they in fact are. Your prompt attention to this most important
concern will be greatly appreciated by we skillful handlers=2C and also=2C
it will give the "rudder wavers" a chance to sneak in under the cloak of d
arkness=2C while the judging staff is absent=2C so as not to be embarrassed
by their various and sundry acts of poor handling. Warmest Personal Regard
s Moe MillsN680RR680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO POSSESS GUNS." TAKES 10 SECONDS...
DO IT...
Date: Jul 31, 2012
From: Iflyse5(at)commspeed.net
Subject: Fwd: "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO POSSESS GUNS." TAKES 10 SECONDS... DO IT
...
Date: Sun=2C 29 Jul 2012 11:04:38 -0700
Subject: "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO POSSESS GUNS." TAKES 10 SECONDS... DO IT...
"WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO POSSESS GUNS." TAKES 10 SECONDS... DO IT... Do it NOW!
Attorney General Holder says=2C "WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO POSSESS GUNS." TAKES O
NLY 10 SECONDS=85 Please vote and then PASS IT ON.
Guess they were not happy with the poll results the first time=2C so USA to
day is running another one... Vote now...
Attorney General Eric Holder=2C has already said this is one of his major i
ssues. He does not believe the 2nd Amdt gives individuals the right to bear
arms.
This takes literally 2 clicks to complete.
Here's what you need to do:
First - vote.
Second- Send it to other folks=2C
then we will see if the results get published.
Click to vote:
USATODAY.com
Note: Results instantly at the end of vote... pretty overwhelming & might s
urprise you
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: This is just not fair
Date: Jul 31, 2012
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=424282937623397
&set=a.355343844517307.94978.144424762275884&type=1&theater
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Fly-In Reminder
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2012
Hi Folks,
Just a reminder that if you plan to attend this year's event and haven't ma
de your hotel reservations you need to do so by August 15th. (Hampton Inn
in Carson City: 775-885-8800.
Also, please take a few minutes to review the directory and let us know of
any changes or suggestions you have.
Hope to see you at the Fly-In.
~Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2012
From: Ken Hyde <kenwhyde(at)aol.com>
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
LinkedIn
------------
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
- Ken
Ken Hyde
President at The Wright Experience
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Confirm that you know Ken Hyde:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/-f0xe8i-h5mq78cu-1y/isd/8159990274/gHz3tdxl/?hs=false&tok=02JtzqFZEWWlk1
--
You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe:
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(c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2012
From: Ken Hyde <kenwhyde(at)aol.com>
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
LinkedIn
------------
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
- Ken
Ken Hyde
President at The Wright Experience
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Confirm that you know Ken Hyde:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/-27vld3-h5mq86xu-52/isd/8160000588/TFpBcFzE/?hs=false&tok=1hEin9GaMXWlk1
--
You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe:
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(c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Fly-In
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 14, 2012
Hi Folks,
Just another reminder if you're planning to attend the Fly-In you need to b
ook your room. Hampton Inn still has rooms under our discount. Call them
at 775-885-8800 and use the code TWI to secure your room.
Also if you haven't let us know you're coming and wish to join us in box se
ating at the races we need to hear from you. We have one box seat reserved
(which is almost full) and a second one on hold, but will need to let them
know on the second box seat by next week.
We are getting so excited about seeing all of our Commander friends again.
Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2012
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/23/12
From: willis robison <drwer22(at)GMAIL.COM>
Open Letter to The Commander List Forum Members.
Im looking for a Aero Commander restoration project. Im interested in a
500-A or B that is structrally sound (read spars - ok). A good 560/680
F-series are also possible, but Spar inspections need to have been done
with a good bill of health.
Aircraft needing hydraulics, engines, some structural/sheet metal repairs
are fine. I just dont have the resources to rebuild primary wing
structures. As you know it takes a village to own an Aero Commander. And
a big hangar. :)
Let me know if you hear of anyone selling. Im also interested in selling/
trading my 1964 Cessna 210D.
Regards.
Willis Robison
drwer22 - at - gmail dot com
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Commander-List Digest Server <
commander-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-08-23&Archive=Commander
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-08-23&Archive=Commander
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 08/23/12: 0
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/23/12
Date: Aug 24, 2012
Hi Willis,
Please publish your request on our Commander Facebook Page, too. There is
more of an international audience which might be helpful
Thanks,
Nico
www.facebook.com/commanderflight
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of willis
robison
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:30 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 08/23/12
Open Letter to The Commander List Forum Members.
Im looking for a Aero Commander restoration project. Im interested in a
500-A or B that is structrally sound (read spars - ok). A good 560/680
F-series are also possible, but Spar inspections need to have been done with
a good bill of health.
Aircraft needing hydraulics, engines, some structural/sheet metal repairs
are fine. I just dont have the resources to rebuild primary wing structures.
As you know it takes a village to own an Aero Commander. And a big hangar.
:)
Let me know if you hear of anyone selling. Im also interested in selling/
trading my 1964 Cessna 210D.
Regards.
Willis Robison
drwer22 - at - gmail dot com
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Commander-List Digest Server
wrote:
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte
r 12-08-23&Archive=Commander>
&View=html&Chapter 12-08-23&Archive=Commander
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
12-08-23&Archive=Commander>
&View=txt&Chapter 12-08-23&Archive=Commander
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 08/23/12: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2012
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: deralict commander
Willis,=0AOne of our members Sue Metzger has a 680E that might interest you
.- It is not in that bad of condition.- It really only needs a muffler;
- -like her husband, Jim:-))
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2012
Subject: Re: deralict commander
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Wow Captain Dan - you are such an authority in the used-Commander world!
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Dan Farmer wrote:
> Willis,
> One of our members Sue Metzger has a 680E that might interest you. It is
> not in that bad of condition. It really only needs a muffler; like her
> husband, Jim:-))
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2012
Subject: Re: deralict commander
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Wow Captain Dan - you are such an authority in the used-Commander world!
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Dan Farmer wrote:
> Willis,
> One of our members Sue Metzger has a 680E that might interest you. It is
> not in that bad of condition. It really only needs a muffler; like her
> husband, Jim:-))
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Directory
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 2012
Hey TCFG Members,
Please take a look at your Directories and let us know of any changes no la
ter than this Friday. Changes include:
Phone #s
Photos
Deleting Vendors
Adding Vendors
Adding/Deleting Vendor Recommendations
Thanks,
~Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: TCFG Directory
Date: Aug 28, 2012
I have never added anything to the standard placement. What are the rules
and costs involved?
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:42 AM
johntowner(at)centralairsouthwest.com
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory
Hey TCFG Members,
Please take a look at your Directories and let us know of any changes no
later than this Friday. Changes include:
Phone #s
Photos
Deleting Vendors
Adding Vendors
Adding/Deleting Vendor Recommendations
Thanks,
~Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 29, 2012
Nico,
No costs involved. It is meant to be a resource for Commander owners.
-----Original Message-----
From: cybersuperstore <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
(at)GMAIL.COM>; johntowner
Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2012 9:12 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: TCFG Directory
I have never added anything to the standard placement. What are the rules a
nd costs involved?
Thanks,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:42 AM
airsouthwest.com
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Directory
Hey TCFG Members,
Please take a look at your Directories and let us know of any changes no la
ter than this Friday. Changes include:
Phone #s
Photos
Deleting Vendors
Adding Vendors
Adding/Deleting Vendor Recommendations
Thanks,
~Jim & Sue
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2012
Where do I do this?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382123#382123
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2012
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Hi Adam,
Sue is referring to the print copy of the 2011/12 Vendor/Membership spiral
bound TCFG handbook.
You may not have received one in the snail mail.
Best just send your photo(optional), contact and aeroplane details / and or
any vendor support you may offer to Sue via email.
Hope to see you at the flyin!
Cheers
Russell
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:34 PM, stratobee wrote:
>
> Where do I do this?
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382123#382123
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 2012
Just send us an email with any changes or suggestions. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:05 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
Where do I do this?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382123#382123
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
Date: Aug 31, 2012
Fellow Commander Drivers=2C Is anyone else planning to go to the AOPA Aviat
ion Summit in Palm Springs=2C CA between Oct. 11-13? Moe MillsN680RR680F(p)
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Thu=2C 30 Aug 2012 12:12:03 -0400
Just send us an email with any changes or suggestions. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Wed=2C Aug 29=2C 2012 10:05 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
Where do I do this?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382123#382123
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2012
From: swperk(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
Hi Moe,
I'll probably go, but most likely just for Saturday.
Regards,
Stan
N681SP
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Mills
Sent: Aug 31, 2012 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
Fellow Commander Drivers,
Is anyone else planning to go to the AOPA Aviation Summit in Palm Springs, CA between
Oct. 11-13?
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: TCFG Directory
Date: Aug 31, 2012
Stan=2C Most likely I also will only be there Saturday=2C as I have some bu
ilding problems to take care of in El Segundo which will most likely take u
p most of that week.My cell # is 310.350.4594=2C perhaps you can call me wh
en you arrive and we can have lunch or something. I plan to drive=2C as th
e last time air traffic was so backed up driving was actually much better.
Regards=2C MoeN680RR
> Date: Fri=2C 31 Aug 2012 21:05:38 -0500
> From: swperk(at)earthlink.net
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
>
>
> Hi Moe=2C
>
> I'll probably go=2C but most likely just for Saturday.
>
> Regards=2C
> Stan
> N681SP
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Moe Mills
> Sent: Aug 31=2C 2012 7:21 PM
> To: "Commander-List@Matronics. Com"
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Directory
>
> Fellow Commander Drivers=2C
>
> Is anyone else planning to go to the AOPA Aviation Summit in Palm Springs
=2C CA between Oct. 11-13?
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680F(p)
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Reno
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2012
Hey folks,
We still have room for a couple more people in the box seats at Reno. This
is a great way to see the races as you are right on the flight line and it
includes pit passes for every day. We will also have coolers with a variet
y of soft drinks/water. If you're interested let us know.
Hope to see you there.
~jb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Bob Hoover likes our Facebook page.
Date: Sep 05, 2012
That was an unexpected surprise having Bob Hoover "Like" our Commander
Facebook page.
www.facebook.com/commanderflight
I also noticed that there is a guy who is advertising for the services of a
Commander pilot.
Thanks,
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Fly-In
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2012
I'm hoping to make it, but the old girl is in annual and they just found the props
need O/H and loads of other annoying stuff and AD's, so I doubt it will be
ready in time. I knew she'd been a bit too good for the last 100 hours - I was
due for a beatdown.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382468#382468
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Fly-In
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 05, 2012
Hope to see you Adam!
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 3:46 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: TCFG Fly-In
I'm hoping to make it, but the old girl is in annual and they just found th
e
props need O/H and loads of other annoying stuff and AD's, so I doubt it wi
ll be
ready in time. I knew she'd been a bit too good for the last 100 hours - I
was
due for a beatdown.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382468#382468
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not positive.
N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately, she's been nothing
but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have - not a single squawk
in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year, I'd expect a pretty
painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm overdue on
the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of before. Not only
that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props have also never been
O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here, for something that
is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs.. Wing Spar inspection
is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and dye penetrant and all that.
It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than 300 hrs, the front spar cap
inspection is due, which is also time limited. A bigger deal. Flap pulleys and
cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm already up to a $20K annual without
them even having her opened up and finding any nasty stuff...
The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me as
she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to be dealt
with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona Engines here
in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs behind... New paint
job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel is a mess and she's
barely legal to fly IFR in...
So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all these issues.
Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see things get worse
and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem just gets delayed.
Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances for work and I could
use something a little faster and more capable. My question is, am I just
throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as she sits now and get $20K,
easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K towards something more capable.
A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta capable and more modern twins...
Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make ends meet
and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at the moment...
Thoughts?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 06, 2012
When asked how much does it cost to maintain an airplane; a wise man once
said; "a little more than you have".
Seems like every aircraft I've ever owned has cost a lot more than I ever
expected it to cost. And that's true from a C24R Beech Serria to T210, P210,
58P Baron, B60 Duke, Aerostar 601 & 602P with standard 290 HP engines and
700 series 350 HP engines and of course the 400LS Cheyenne. Never once had a
plane that cost as much or less than I figured...
Whatever you have; your aircraft will consume.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:01 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not
positive. N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately,
she's been nothing but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have -
not a single squawk in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year,
I'd expect a pretty painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm
overdue on the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of
before. Not only that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props
have also never been O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here,
for something that is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs..
Wing Spar inspection is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and
dye penetrant and all that. It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than
300 hrs, the front spar cap inspection is due, which is also time limited. A
bigger deal. Flap pulleys and cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm
already up to a $20K annual without them even having her opened up and
finding any nasty stuff...
The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me
as she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to
be dealt with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona
Engines here in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs
behind... New paint job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel
is a mess and she's barely legal to fly IFR in...
So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all
these issues. Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see
things get worse and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem
just gets delayed. Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances
for work and I could use something a little faster and more capable. My
question is, am I just throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as
she sits now and get $20K, easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K
towards something more capable. A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta
capable and more modern twins...
Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make
ends meet and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at
the moment... Thoughts?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 06, 2012
A quick glance at Controller.com shows you could pick up an older (late
'60s) Baron 55 or early '70s Cessna 310Q & late '70s 310R for under $100K.
But...you could also be buying somebody else's problems. The only aircraft
that I know of that didn't cost as much as expected in maintenance was my
dad's old Cherokee 1969 235C. Although he piled on the hours, he babied it
and when it came to being due for major overhaul the shop opened it up and
found everything to be within new tolerances. It was burned in 1977 by
so-called freedom fighters--to us terrorists--after which he bought the V35
Bonanza. It was the only time I saw my old man cry.
Could you miss the 250 hour inspection and go straight to the 500hour
one...and do the spar cap inspection at the same time as the wing spar? It
might not save you much.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: September-06-12 12:01 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not
positive. N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately,
she's been nothing but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have -
not a single squawk in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year,
I'd expect a pretty painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm
overdue on the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of
before. Not only that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props
have also never been O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here,
for something that is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs..
Wing Spar inspection is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and
dye penetrant and all that. It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than
300 hrs, the front spar cap inspection is due, which is also time limited. A
bigger deal. Flap pulleys and cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm
already up to a $20K annual without them even having her opened up and
finding any nasty stuff...
The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me
as she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to
be dealt with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona
Engines here in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs
behind... New paint job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel
is a mess and she's barely legal to fly IFR in...
So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all
these issues. Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see
things get worse and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem
just gets delayed. Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances
for work and I could use something a little faster and more capable. My
question is, am I just throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as
she sits now and get $20K, easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K
towards something more capable. A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta
capable and more modern twins...
Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make
ends meet and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at
the moment... Thoughts?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Thompson" <Richard(at)flycorp.com.au>
Subject: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 07, 2012
Adam,
Do the annual.
Spread the rest out over time.
At the end you will have an airplane that is a known quantity, just the way
you like it.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that for 100K you will get better. You
will just be buying someone else's problems.
Spending up big to get it to the standard you want.
There are faster, sleeker twins out there.
But when the runways short,rough and you have too much stuff, One engine is
silent, THERE IS NO OTHER TWIN I WOULD RATHER BE IN.
I own a whole lot of Pipers, Have owned Cessnas and they are junk compared
to a Commander.
There is nothing better than being at some flyin where. There are Cubs,
180's, ultralights, and a 680E. Not a Piper, Cessna or Beech product in
sight.
Did I mention the SOUND?
I have spent way too much money on my Commander and will continue to do so.
I know what I have got and love it. Will I get any of it back? NO.
The 680E works great with a well developed sense of self preservation.
Times are hard here too. I attempt to make a living out of airplanes. At the
moment survival is the word. Things will get better.
Sort out the things that will kill you and do the pretty things
progressively.
Just the thoughts of an airplane nut.
Cheers,
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Friday, 7 September 2012 5:01 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not
positive. N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately,
she's been nothing but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have -
not a single squawk in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year,
I'd expect a pretty painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm
overdue on the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of
before. Not only that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props
have also never been O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here,
for something that is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs..
Wing Spar inspection is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and
dye penetrant and all that. It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than
300 hrs, the front spar cap inspection is due, which is also time limited. A
bigger deal. Flap pulleys and cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm
already up to a $20K annual without them even having her opened up and
finding any nasty stuff...
The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me
as she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to
be dealt with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona
Engines here in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs
behind... New paint job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel
is a mess and she's barely legal to fly IFR in...
So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all
these issues. Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see
things get worse and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem
just gets delayed. Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances
for work and I could use something a little faster and more capable. My
question is, am I just throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as
she sits now and get $20K, easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K
towards something more capable. A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta
capable and more modern twins...
Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make
ends meet and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at
the moment... Thoughts?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Andrew, that's what I'm doing. The 250hr inspection gets incorporated into the
500hr one, so I'm doing both by doing the 500 one. The front spar cap inspection
at 6000hrs is another inspection - it's where they have to cut a little hole
in the leading edge and inspect, so I'll wait with that one as it's much more
involved. This one is done from the interior at WS24 on the main spar. It's
happening as we speak in case there are any troubles here, because then all the
other stuff doesn't make any sense to fix.. I'm sure it's fine. They're sturdy
birds.
But basically, even if all is kosher, from now on I have to comply with one 250hr
inspection where the hubs (and therefore the props) has to be sent off, then
another at 500hrs and then multiple 500hr inspections at the main spar and front
spar cap from now on. Plus all the other stuff like flap AD and that. It
adds up...
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382538#382538
________________________________________________________________________________
From: White_rhino_ps <white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Or... You could by my 560F in great mechanical condition, with only 125 hours on
the engines and props!
Craig
N747H
Sent from my iPad3!
On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:49 PM, "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
wrote:
>
> A quick glance at Controller.com shows you could pick up an older (late
> '60s) Baron 55 or early '70s Cessna 310Q & late '70s 310R for under $100K.
> But...you could also be buying somebody else's problems. The only aircraft
> that I know of that didn't cost as much as expected in maintenance was my
> dad's old Cherokee 1969 235C. Although he piled on the hours, he babied it
> and when it came to being due for major overhaul the shop opened it up and
> found everything to be within new tolerances. It was burned in 1977 by
> so-called freedom fighters--to us terrorists--after which he bought the V35
> Bonanza. It was the only time I saw my old man cry.
>
> Could you miss the 250 hour inspection and go straight to the 500hour
> one...and do the spar cap inspection at the same time as the wing spar? It
> might not save you much.
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
> Sent: September-06-12 12:01 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
>
>
> So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not
> positive. N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately,
> she's been nothing but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have -
> not a single squawk in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year,
> I'd expect a pretty painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
>
> Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm
> overdue on the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of
> before. Not only that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props
> have also never been O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here,
> for something that is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs..
> Wing Spar inspection is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and
> dye penetrant and all that. It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than
> 300 hrs, the front spar cap inspection is due, which is also time limited. A
> bigger deal. Flap pulleys and cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm
> already up to a $20K annual without them even having her opened up and
> finding any nasty stuff...
>
>
> The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me
> as she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to
> be dealt with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona
> Engines here in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs
> behind... New paint job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel
> is a mess and she's barely legal to fly IFR in...
>
> So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all
> these issues. Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see
> things get worse and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem
> just gets delayed. Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances
> for work and I could use something a little faster and more capable. My
> question is, am I just throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as
> she sits now and get $20K, easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K
> towards something more capable. A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta
> capable and more modern twins...
>
> Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make
> ends meet and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at
> the moment... Thoughts?
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
I do like 560F's, especially the long range capabilities combined with good short
field performance. But if I ever upgrade sometime it'll be an Aerostar 601P.
You get into one for less than a 500A, pressurised, full de-ice. Burn 25gph
at 190kts - same as mine burns at 140kts.... It's Ted Smith, no wing AD's ever,
built like tanks, no funny geared engines that will ruin you come O/H. Sure,
it's more complex, but it's swings and roundabouts. At least you can overhaul
the engines at Wall-Mart and get parts everywhere. Aviation is expensive as it
is without having to deal with engines that no one except mister-I-have-the-last-spare-parts-ever-made-for-these-and-I'm-the-only-one-that-can-overhaul-them-so-I'll-charge-you-an-arm-and-a-leg.
Non standard stuff costs more money, it's
as simple as that. And as the base of 520's and 560's go away, there's no
way this will go down.
Sorry, I'm just a bit disillusioned by it all right now...
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382542#382542
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Adam,
There is a 520 in Oklahoma that has two engines, props, and it flew in several
years ago.
It can be bought very cheep. The owner got it in a bankruptcy. I have photos
of N52WD.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 6, 2012, at 4:05 PM, stratobee wrote:
>
> Andrew, that's what I'm doing. The 250hr inspection gets incorporated into the
500hr one, so I'm doing both by doing the 500 one. The front spar cap inspection
at 6000hrs is another inspection - it's where they have to cut a little hole
in the leading edge and inspect, so I'll wait with that one as it's much more
involved. This one is done from the interior at WS24 on the main spar. It's
happening as we speak in case there are any troubles here, because then all
the other stuff doesn't make any sense to fix.. I'm sure it's fine. They're sturdy
birds.
>
> But basically, even if all is kosher, from now on I have to comply with one 250hr
inspection where the hubs (and therefore the props) has to be sent off, then
another at 500hrs and then multiple 500hr inspections at the main spar and
front spar cap from now on. Plus all the other stuff like flap AD and that. It
adds up...
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382538#382538
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Tylor - do you know how much time is on the engines and how much he'd want for
them?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382546#382546
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry(at)kvelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Adam,
I have around 800 hours in 601P's and I can't imagine a power setting where
you would see a fuel burn of 25 gph. What altitudes would you be flying at?
The 601P's I've flown have all performed best at in the low flight levels;
FL190-230 and would usually cruise at 230-240 KTA burning 34-36 gph.
If you want to fly at the same altitudes you fly your Commander a 600 would
be a better choice since it's not turbocharged and could burn in that 25 gph
range; you would still see speeds in excess of 200 KTA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 4:37 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
I do like 560F's, especially the long range capabilities combined with good
short field performance. But if I ever upgrade sometime it'll be an Aerostar
601P. You get into one for less than a 500A, pressurised, full de-ice. Burn
25gph at 190kts - same as mine burns at 140kts.... It's Ted Smith, no wing
AD's ever, built like tanks, no funny geared engines that will ruin you come
O/H. Sure, it's more complex, but it's swings and roundabouts. At least you
can overhaul the engines at Wall-Mart and get parts everywhere. Aviation is
expensive as it is without having to deal with engines that no one except
mister-I-have-the-last-spare-parts-ever-made-for-these-and-I'm-the-only-one-
that-can-overhaul-them-so-I'll-charge-you-an-arm-and-a-leg. Non standard
stuff costs more money, it's as simple as that. And as the base of 520's and
560's go away, there's no way this will go down.
Sorry, I'm just a bit disillusioned by it all right now...
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382542#382542
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Kerry - this was from a Lean Of Peak guy I flew with in his 601P. He could be trying
to impress me, but it's not beyond the realm of the possible considering
190kts is a pretty low power setting. Granted, it was high up, much higher than
my 520 would fly. So at a similar altitude, low teens, I'm sure the burn would
go up.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382550#382550
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cybersuperstore" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Sep 06, 2012
Hi Kerry,
Very true words. I appreciate your efforts to prove the contemporary wisdom
wrong. I mean, if a Beech Sierra doesn't cut it, then step up. Perhaps with
a 400 knot Cheyenne the numbers just won't be able to keep up. I fully agree
with that pathway to proving the naysayers wrong. Next step after the
Cheyenne, of course, would be a Gulfstream and if that's still not closing
the loop, I'll go for a Boeing 777 business jet. That ought to do it.
Some thought, huh?
Just kidding.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 12:17 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
-->
When asked how much does it cost to maintain an airplane; a wise man once
said; "a little more than you have".
Seems like every aircraft I've ever owned has cost a lot more than I ever
expected it to cost. And that's true from a C24R Beech Serria to T210, P210,
58P Baron, B60 Duke, Aerostar 601 & 602P with standard 290 HP engines and
700 series 350 HP engines and of course the 400LS Cheyenne. Never once had a
plane that cost as much or less than I figured...
Whatever you have; your aircraft will consume.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:01 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
So, certain thoughts are starting to swirl in my head and they're not
positive. N20VE is now in for her second annual during my tenure. Lately,
she's been nothing but the most reliable airplane one could wish to have -
not a single squawk in about 100hr. And since I spent $35K on her last year,
I'd expect a pretty painless annual. However, I was due for a beatdown.
Dropped her off at HHR for the annual and immediately we find out I'm
overdue on the 250hr prop hub inspection - something I'd never heard of
before. Not only that, the 500hr inspection is coming up as well. The props
have also never been O/H, so they need to be done. We're talking $10K here,
for something that is due for another inspection and might fail in 500hrs..
Wing Spar inspection is due. This is no biggie, but still 20 man hours and
dye penetrant and all that. It'll last another 500hrs... And in less than
300 hrs, the front spar cap inspection is due, which is also time limited. A
bigger deal. Flap pulleys and cable AD needs to be done, etc, etc. So I'm
already up to a $20K annual without them even having her opened up and
finding any nasty stuff...
The left engine has 50hrs left to run before TBO. Now, that doesn't scare me
as she makes no metal and has great compression, but still, it will have to
be dealt with sooner or later. The last quote I got is $38K from Corona
Engines here in CA to do ONE engine... The right engine is only 150hrs
behind... New paint job (it's bad) quote I got was $18K. The avionics panel
is a mess and she's barely legal to fly IFR in...
So, basically, I would have to spend at least $110K to take care of all
these issues. Now, I can just do the annual and play it by ear and see
things get worse and spend as little money as possible, but then the problem
just gets delayed. Also, my mission is changing. I need to go long distances
for work and I could use something a little faster and more capable. My
question is, am I just throwing money down a black hole? I could sell her as
she sits now and get $20K, easily, save the $20K in annual and have $40K
towards something more capable. A $110K today will buy you a whole lotta
capable and more modern twins...
Combine this with a very bad financial year where I've struggled to make
ends meet and it's starting to wear me down. I'm just a bit disenchanted at
the moment... Thoughts?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382519#382519
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 07, 2012
HI ADAM.......I am sorry, but not surprised to hear of your of your trouble
s. Anytime an old Commnader shows up at a shop like that, the outcome is p
redictable. Your mechanic should always be older than the airplane he is w
orking on. First, the AD on the forward spar does not apply to your airpla
ne. I doesn't even have the parts to be inspected installed. The 560A was
the first model to have the straps. But, it is probably a moot point. La
st April a service letter was issued from Hartzell that suspended the servi
ce instructions for your propellers. In other words, they can no longer be
overhauled. They can, at great expense, be upgraded to the MV design, but
this would require replacing basically everything in your props. I am goi
ng to be speaking on this issue at the flyin. We did talk about the 250hr
inspection when I checked you out in your airplane. You may remember that
I had a pair of low time, no AD props for sale? You passed at the time and
I later sold them for a 560, sorry:-( I dont know what to tell you. I
am going to contact Hartzell and see if there is any other solution, but a
m not hopeful as I feel they just don't want these old propellers around an
ymore. jb
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:03 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Kerry - this was from a Lean Of Peak guy I flew with in his 601P. He could
be
trying to impress me, but it's not beyond the realm of the possible conside
ring
190kts is a pretty low power setting. Granted, it was high up, much higher
than
my 520 would fly. So at a similar altitude, low teens, I'm sure the burn wo
uld
go up.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382550#382550
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2012
I should have bough those then, but I didn't have any money left after the first
big annual!
Are you saying Hartzell won't let them be overhauled or inspected at all? Because
buying new props is a $70K deal, which would be the end of all 520's.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382607#382607
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TCFG Fly-In
From: "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2012
stratobee wrote:
> I'm hoping to make it, but the old girl is in annual and they just found the
props need O/H and loads of other annoying stuff and AD's, so I doubt it will
be ready in time. I knew she'd been a bit too good for the last 100 hours - I
was due for a beatdown.
Call me we are flying out of Chino in a 680F on Thursday morning 714 six five eight
3641
Andrew
--------
Andrew P Geraghty
Corona CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382652#382652
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bob Odegaard flying the Shrike.
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2012
RIP Bob who sadly passed away recently in a Super Corsair. This is a lovely tribute
to Bob Hoover in the 500.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o50A_nTa7b4
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382707#382707
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zac Armstrong <transam403(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cessna 414/421 v 685
Date: Sep 11, 2012
So we are still on the hunt as our 421 that we put an offer on got swept aw
ay by Hurricane Isaac (long story). After my previous question on the e-ma
il list about the 680FP (thank you everyone who responded)=2C I don't think
the 680 will be the plane for us. However=2C I have been looking at the 6
85 pretty closely and was wondering if anyone had any direct operating expe
rience between the 421s and the 685s. I know the 685 will have the SB rega
rding the aft pressure vessel bulkhead in the near future=2C but was wonder
ing about operational cost and performance figures for the two. Keep in mi
nd that we will be operating out of a 3700ft strip (at 550MSL)=2C so short
field operations are a key component as well (although we won't ever be hea
vy). Thanks in advance!
Zac Armstrong
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2012
It looks like the old girl will see another day. It was touch and go.
I had a bit of luck in that I have the newer V style hubs and not the unserviceable
X hubs. So the prop AD inspection should be achievable. Now, if they fail,
then that might be another matter.. I've also seem to have come across two newly
O/H GO'435's for a good price, and will try to get my hands on those for
future upgrade. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend fly-in, but hopefully
next year.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382864#382864
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cessna 414/421 v 685
Date: Sep 11, 2012
Zac=2C Although I have no personal experience with the 685 after noting you
r runway length it might be a good idea to check the takeoff performance of
the 685. Regards=2C Moe MillsN680RR680F(p)
From: transam403(at)hotmail.com
Subject: Commander-List: Cessna 414/421 v 685
Date: Tue=2C 11 Sep 2012 04:16:21 +0000
So we are still on the hunt as our 421 that we put an offer on got swept aw
ay by Hurricane Isaac (long story). After my previous question on the e-ma
il list about the 680FP (thank you everyone who responded)=2C I don't think
the 680 will be the plane for us. However=2C I have been looking at the 6
85 pretty closely and was wondering if anyone had any direct operating expe
rience between the 421s and the 685s. I know the 685 will have the SB rega
rding the aft pressure vessel bulkhead in the near future=2C but was wonder
ing about operational cost and performance figures for the two. Keep in mi
nd that we will be operating out of a 3700ft strip (at 550MSL)=2C so short
field operations are a key component as well (although we won't ever be hea
vy). Thanks in advance!
Zac Armstrong
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
From: "n395v" <airboss(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2012
I owned and operated a 685 for several years. My hangar mate had a 421
>From a cost standpoint there was no significant difference.
I would however ech Moe's opinion about take off distance. The 685 is not a short
field airplane. Not sure how takeoff distance compares with the 421 but the
685 is superior in every other respect.
A lot of 685 operators who complained of poor TO performance were always operating
well over Gross at takeoff.
If I remember correctly it will hold ove 1800 pounds of fuel. Full tanks are seldom
necessary for most flights.
Average fuel burn was 48 GPH and cruise was 205KTS TAS consistently.
The GTSO 520Ks will probably need top overhuals at 900 hrs. The bottom end of the
engines should meet or exceed TBO if treated properly.
Lots of old wives tails about the 685s most of them untrue.
We have at least 2 685 check pilots on the list who can give you further guidance.
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382879#382879
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2012
Glad things are looking up Adam. The boys from Australia said to tell you
that if they can come half-way around the world to be at the event that you
could come a few miles to attend!! Seriously, we would love to see you an
d know you would have a good time with everyone and learn more about Comman
ders.
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:31 am
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
It looks like the old girl will see another day. It was touch and go.
I had a bit of luck in that I have the newer V style hubs and not the
unserviceable X hubs. So the prop AD inspection should be achievable. Now,
if
they fail, then that might be another matter.. I've also seem to have come
across two newly O/H GO'435's for a good price, and will try to get my hand
s on
those for future upgrade. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend fly-i
n,
but hopefully next year.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382864#382864
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2012
Subject: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
From: Paul Gendron <rpmcommander(at)GMAIL.COM>
Hi All.
I'm UNFORTUNATLEY parting out a 685
If anyone need a spare anything?
Give me a call 954-547-3002 Paul
RPMCommander(at)gmail.com
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:25 AM, n395v wrote:
> >
>
> I owned and operated a 685 for several years. My hangar mate had a 421
> >From a cost standpoint there was no significant difference.
> I would however ech Moe's opinion about take off distance. The 685 is not
> a short field airplane. Not sure how takeoff distance compares with the 421
> but the 685 is superior in every other respect.
>
> A lot of 685 operators who complained of poor TO performance were always
> operating well over Gross at takeoff.
>
> If I remember correctly it will hold ove 1800 pounds of fuel. Full tanks
> are seldom necessary for most flights.
>
> Average fuel burn was 48 GPH and cruise was 205KTS TAS consistently.
>
> The GTSO 520Ks will probably need top overhuals at 900 hrs. The bottom end
> of the engines should meet or exceed TBO if treated properly.
>
> Lots of old wives tails about the 685s most of them untrue.
>
> We have at least 2 685 check pilots on the list who can give you further
> guidance.
>
> --------
> Milt
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382879#382879
>
>
--
Thank You
Paul Gendron for
www.RPMCommander.com LLC
954-547-3002
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
Date: Sep 15, 2012
Hi Paul=2C Is your 685 pressurized? Moe
Date: Sat=2C 15 Sep 2012 05:54:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
From: rpmcommander(at)GMAIL.COM
Hi All. I'm UNFORTUNATLEY parting out a 685 If anyone need a spare anything
? Give me a call 954-547-3002 Paul RPMCommander(at)gmail.com
On Tue=2C Sep 11=2C 2012 at 11:25 AM=2C n395v
wrote:
I owned and operated a 685 for several years. My hangar mate had a 421
>From a cost standpoint there was no significant difference.
I would however ech Moe's opinion about take off distance. The 685 is not a
short field airplane. Not sure how takeoff distance compares with the 421
but the 685 is superior in every other respect.
A lot of 685 operators who complained of poor TO performance were always op
erating well over Gross at takeoff.
If I remember correctly it will hold ove 1800 pounds of fuel. Full tanks ar
e seldom necessary for most flights.
Average fuel burn was 48 GPH and cruise was 205KTS TAS consistently.
The GTSO 520Ks will probably need top overhuals at 900 hrs. The bottom end
of the engines should meet or exceed TBO if treated properly.
Lots of old wives tails about the 685s most of them untrue.
We have at least 2 685 check pilots on the list who can give you further gu
idance.
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382879#382879
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Thank You
Paul Gendron for
www.RPMCommander.com LLC
954-547-3002
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2012
Subject: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
From: Paul Gendron <rpmcommander(at)GMAIL.COM>
N, it had a camera window
On Sep 15, 2012 9:30 PM, "Moe Mills" wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Is your 685 pressurized?
>
> Moe
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 05:54:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Cessna 414/421 v 685
> From: rpmcommander(at)GMAIL.COM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Hi All.
> I'm UNFORTUNATLEY parting out a 685
> If anyone need a spare anything?
> Give me a call 954-547-3002 Paul
> RPMCommander(at)gmail.com
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:25 AM, n395v wrote:
>
> >
>
> I owned and operated a 685 for several years. My hangar mate had a 421
> >From a cost standpoint there was no significant difference.
> I would however ech Moe's opinion about take off distance. The 685 is not
> a short field airplane. Not sure how takeoff distance compares with the 421
> but the 685 is superior in every other respect.
>
> A lot of 685 operators who complained of poor TO performance were always
> operating well over Gross at takeoff.
>
> If I remember correctly it will hold ove 1800 pounds of fuel. Full tanks
> are seldom necessary for most flights.
>
> Average fuel burn was 48 GPH and cruise was 205KTS TAS consistently.
>
> The GTSO 520Ks will probably need top overhuals at 900 hrs. The bottom end
> of the engines should meet or exceed TBO if treated properly.
>
> Lots of old wives tails about the 685s most of them untrue.
>
> We have at least 2 685 check pilots on the list who can give you further
> guidance.
>
> --------
> Milt
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382879#382879
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Thank You
>
> Paul Gendron for
> www.RPMCommander.com LLC
> 954-547-3002
>
>
> *
>
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TCFG Fly-In
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2012
We had another great time at this year's Fly-In. The weather was perfect a
s were the Commander stories and laughter that floated in the air. It was
wonderful to see five Commanders on the ramp. And the Reno Air Races were
great as usual. The best part, however, was seeing and spending time with
our Commander family. Thank you to all of you who attended!!!
We announced that next year's event will be held in Chattanooga, TN the sec
ond weekend of September so be sure to mark your calendars and make plans t
o attend. Watch for details to be posted as they emerge. We look forward
to seeing you there.
Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com" <kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com>
Subject: Re: TCFG Fly-In
Date: Sep 25, 2012
Interesting...
I live near Chattanooga TN (15 SM SW).
I am heavily involved in sailplanes, hang gliding and skydiving.
There is also great caving and rafting around this area.
Anyone willing to fly a (or get a rating on) sailplane is welcomed to call.
Or if you'd like a tandem skydive or hanglider flight.
Or if you'd like to get a taildragger endorsement on our Bellanca 14-13.
Man, it's gonna be fun... :)
I'd like a ride on a Twincommander (dream airplane), I did a lot of
copiloting-ride on a 690 years (many) ago. Boy, what a ride!
ET
yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes:
>
> We had another great time at this year's Fly-In. The weather was perfect as
were the Commander stories and laughter that floated in the air. It was wonderful
to see five Commanders on the ramp. And the Reno Air Races were great as
usual. The best part, however, was seeing and spending time with our Commander
family. Thank you to all of you who attended!!!
>
> We announced that next year's event will be held in Chattanooga, TN the second
weekend of September so be sure to mark your calendars and make plans to attend.
Watch for details to be posted as they emerge. We look forward to seeing
you there.
>
> Jim & Sue
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LOOKING FOR MY FRIEND, KORY S.
From: "MITSUHIRO SS" <tonbo0325(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2012
I'm looking for my best friend KORY SHELTON who is a pilot that I have lost contact
with.
I have been sending e-mail and letters and trying to call him many times, but I
can't contact with him. I don't know even where he is now... NY or Paris or he
already might have retired...
I know this is not the place to bring up that question but I found that he has
left messages here before, so please let me write here...
If anyone knows about him, could you tell me about him or could you tell him for
me?? And Kory... if you are reading this, please e-mail me because I'm worried
about you very much...
I wish I can hear from him soon... Thank you for reading.
Mitsuhiro
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385369#385369
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: LOOKING FOR MY FRIEND, KORY S.
Date: Oct 15, 2012
Are you an attorney=2C bountey hunter=2C bill collector=2C or with any inst
ermentality of any government?
> Subject: Commander-List: LOOKING FOR MY FRIEND=2C KORY S.
> From: tonbo0325(at)aol.com
> Date: Mon=2C 15 Oct 2012 09:15:20 -0700
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I'm looking for my best friend KORY SHELTON who is a pilot that I have lo
st contact with.
>
> I have been sending e-mail and letters and trying to call him many times
=2C but I can't contact with him. I don't know even where he is now... NY o
r Paris or he already might have retired...
> I know this is not the place to bring up that question but I found that h
e has left messages here before=2C so please let me write here...
>
> If anyone knows about him=2C could you tell me about him or could you tel
l him for me?? And Kory... if you are reading this=2C please e-mail me beca
use I'm worried about you very much...
> I wish I can hear from him soon... Thank you for reading.
>
> Mitsuhiro
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385369#385369
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR MY FRIEND, KORY S.
From: "MITSUHIRO SS" <tonbo0325(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Thank you for writing, but I'm NOT one of them.
Like I wrote, I'm just his friend and we have know each other for a long time,
so of course he has known about me very much.
If you would know about him and you can contact with him, could you tell him for
me that I'm worried about him?
I can't write about him very much here because I want to protect his privacy. So
if you know about him, could you e-mail me directly although I'm very sorry
to bother you so much...
Anyway I wish I can hear from him soon...
Thank you for reading.
Mitsuhiro
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385443#385443
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking to make a purchase
From: "Skysurfer" <Davids(at)energyhsg.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2012
I am looking for a flying Commander 520-560-680 to purchase. I have not had any
luck. Does anyone have any leads? And any suggestions in what to avoid.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385509#385509
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Looking to make a purchase
Date: Oct 16, 2012
Hi David,
I know where there's a 680FLP, hasn't flown in a couple years, needs some
hydraulic work. I flew it for 1,000 hours over 6 years until the owner
hangared it about 2 years ago when his business went down hill and he
couldn't afford the plane. It's still run up now and then and I think the
annual is kept up. Engines about 600-800 hrs as I recall. Mr RPM
Conversion, IO-720s.
Here's a picture of it from a few years ago. Probably still looks this
good, other than probably needing to be washed.
I've removed the N number as I'm not the owner, but I can get you in touch
with the owner.
Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: Skysurfer
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Looking to make a purchase
I am looking for a flying Commander 520-560-680 to purchase. I have not had
any luck. Does anyone have any leads? And any suggestions in what to
avoid.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385509#385509
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico van niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Looking to make a purchase
Date: Oct 16, 2012
David, post your request on the Commander Facebook Page, too. A larger
audience can only benefit your request. Go to
www.facebook.com/commanderflight and "Like" the page.
Hope you get your bird.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skysurfer
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Looking to make a purchase
I am looking for a flying Commander 520-560-680 to purchase. I have not had
any luck. Does anyone have any leads? And any suggestions in what to
avoid.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385509#385509
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2012
From: gmosh(at)charter.net
Subject: Looking to make a purchase
I have a straight 560 available . Let's talk
Gary cf(616) 748-1705 wk (616) 662-9100
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:01 PM, nico van niekerk wrote:
>
>
> David, post your request on the Commander Facebook Page, too. A larger
> audience can only benefit your request. Go to
> www.facebook.com/commanderflight and "Like" the page.
> Hope you get your bird.
> Nico
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Skysurfer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:12 PM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Looking to make a purchase
>
>
>
> I am looking for a flying Commander 520-560-680 to purchase. I have
> not had
> any luck. Does anyone have any leads? And any suggestions in what to
> avoid.
>
> David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385509#385509
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Donnie <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looking to make a purchase
Date: Oct 17, 2012
I have an awesome 500B
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:37 PM, gmosh(at)charter.net wrote:
>
> I have a straight 560 available . Let's talk
>
> Gary cf(616) 748-1705 wk (616) 662-9100
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:01 PM, nico van niekerk wrote:
>
>>
>> David, post your request on the Commander Facebook Page, too. A larger
>> audience can only benefit your request. Go to
>> www.facebook.com/commanderflight and "Like" the page.
>> Hope you get your bird.
>> Nico
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skysurfer
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:12 PM
>> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Commander-List: Looking to make a purchase
>>
>>
>> I am looking for a flying Commander 520-560-680 to purchase. I have not had
>> any luck. Does anyone have any leads? And any suggestions in what to
>> avoid.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385509#385509
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking to make a purchase
From: "Skysurfer" <Davids(at)energyhsg.com>
Date: Oct 17, 2012
Thank you for the replies. I have a purchase budget of 70k or less. I am holding
a large amount of additional budget back for maintenance.
Do any of the posts fall in this range?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385584#385584
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking to make a purchase
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Date: Oct 17, 2012
there is a 680E on myplane.com.
N777LS and they are asking $60,000.
It has the new props from JimBob.
I have found two engines, GSO-480's, that do not have log books for parts.
Tylor Hall
On Oct 17, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Skysurfer wrote:
>
> Thank you for the replies. I have a purchase budget of 70k or less. I am holding
a large amount of additional budget back for maintenance.
>
> Do any of the posts fall in this range?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385584#385584
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 17, 2012
Subject: Re: Looking to make a purchase
I might sell my 680 . The engines have less than 500 hrs and running fine .
I have two planes and don`t kneed two . I love flying it but might sell it
, still can`t make up my mind . Gil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
Date: Oct 26, 2012
ANYONE HAVE A SOURCE FOR A CARBON SEAL FOR ADEL BOOST PUMP (FOR 500B).
REPLY VIA THIS SITE OR CALL LLOYD SILVERMAN AT 914 720 0039.
THANKS; 500B IS DOWN FOR LACK OF A SMALL CHUNK OF CARBON.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2012
Subject: Re: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
From: Nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William J Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Lloyd,
Parts for these pumps are getting increasingly difficult.
A way to go is to use a Form 337 mod. to use dry pumps, I don=99t
have the part numbers to hand, but the electric boost pumps similar to
those found on a Baron is the way to go.
I seem to recall that one of the regular contributors to this forum has
done this on a number of -500Bs.
Then you are using pumps that are current and supported.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nico
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Thanks Bill, Paul at rpm said he might have one.
----- Original Message -----
From: William J Hamilton<mailto:wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:14 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
Lloyd,
Parts for these pumps are getting increasingly difficult.
A way to go is to use a Form 337 mod. to use dry pumps, I
don=99t have the part numbers to hand, but the electric boost
pumps similar to those found on a Baron is the way to go.
I seem to recall that one of the regular contributors to this forum
has done this on a number of -500Bs.
Then you are using pumps that are current and supported.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
<>
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nico
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:43 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: ADEL FUEL PUMP PARTS
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A
Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate
the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using
your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Can we talk 685's?
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
I'd like some more meat on the 685 and/or the 680FPL. I know all the usual stuff
- how it needs a lot of rwy fully loaded, how the engines will ruin you etc,
etc.
But what I would like to know more about is real world operation etc:
1.What's the certified ceiling?
2. What can you expect the burn at 20K plus and 55%, 45%, TAS?
3. Do they all come with 322gal tanks or is that an add on?
4. Are cylinders etc plentiful and easy to get hold of?
5. How terrible is the Skydrol system? Does it run the pressurisation as well?
6. Any significant AD's?
7. They seem to have come with a few different engines ranging from 390hp to 450hp
- any particular one to avoid?
8. What is the difference between the 685 and the 680FPL?
Any experiences greatly appreciated.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386982#386982
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Subject: Can we talk 685's?
From: "CloudCraft / K.S.Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
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PT09PT09PT09PT0KCgoK
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Thanks Keith - look forward to it.
The reason I have an interest is of course firstly that it's a Commander, but secondly
because I have this obsession with long range. And 322 gals - if one could
pull back and get somewhere around 30gals total up high - would be very interesting.
I'm guessing, but that should possibly give more than 1500nm range,
maybe even more.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386992#386992
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico van niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: TCFG website
Date: Nov 05, 2012
The site looks really good, guys. Let me know when it's in final stage, I'd
like to promote it on the facebook page. Hundreds of brochures, pamphlets
and other old marketing material has been uploaded onto the facebook page,
which really belongs to the TCFG. I have them on DVD, too and if it will
help I can make them available on my FTP server.
Let me know if I can be of help in any way.
Thanks,
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: A Message From AeroElectric's Bob Nuckolls...
Dear Listers,
The well known Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric posted a great message Monday on
the AeroElectric-List regarding the Matronics Lists and the importance of supporting
the operation during the Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to read Bob's
commentary below, reposted to the other Matronics Lists with his permission...
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 08:58:41 -0600
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Please Make A Contribution Today!
At 02:14 AM 11/5/2012, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
> acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
> support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that
> took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
>
I will add my voice to this suggestion. It's
easy to enjoy the benefits of what's available to us
off-the-shelves at the corner mega-marts. It's
seldom that we give pause to learn and understand the
processes and tools that made it possible to reach out
and select from dozens of options.
This, and all civil societies, runs on talent, energy
and mobility. Mobility exploited by thousands of hands,
machines and transportation that figure into the
'infrastructure' that puts the boxes of Wheaties and
Pop Tarts on the shelves.
See "I pencil" http://tinyurl.com/36xkhq
Any break in that chain of time, talent and resources
at least interrupts if not totally halts flow of
that benefit. Matt's room full of byte-thrashers is
like the natural gas pumping station a few miles from
my house. If those pumps stop, who ever is expecting
the furnace to come on at the other end of the pipe
is at risk for reduced service and/or higher costs
for that service.
Matt's yearly endeavor to keep his pumps running is
a trivial burden on the members of the Lists
but of incalculable value to those who participate
on them. No donation is too small.
We go to a fly-in a willingly chuck a few bucks into
the coffee can at the drinks and donuts table, let's
chuck a few bucks into Matt's coffee can too. 50,000
pounds of value doesn't get to the shelves on time
if one 18-wheeler runs out of gas. The T-bytes of
data flow we all enjoy don't get from your keyboard
to the screens of others unless Matt pays the light
bill and strokes the machines to keep them happy.
No, $5 won't get you a free copy of the 'Connection
or a fuel sampler but it will go toward the assurance
that logging onto your favorite List will open
doors that you would be sorely missed should you find
that hitting the return key doesn't produce the
expected response.
$5 from every List customer on Matt's system will
go a very long way to keeping the byte-pumps running.
$More$ will go a long way to upgrading the size
and quality of the machines as the old ones get
long in the tooth. No matter what size of donation
you choose . . . please do it now . . .
Bob . . .
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch
Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined
with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site
up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics
Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are
so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have
it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2012
Anyone?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387346#387346
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2012
I'd like some more meat on the 685 and/or the 680FPL. I know all the usual
stuff - how it needs a lot of rwy fully loaded, how the engines will ruin y
ou etc, etc.
But what I would like to know more about is real world operation etc:
1.What's the certified ceiling?
2. What can you expect the burn at 20K plus and 55%, 45%, TAS?
3. Do they all come with 322gal tanks or is that an add on?
4. Are cylinders etc plentiful and easy to get hold of?
5. How terrible is the Skydrol system? Does it run the pressurisation as we
ll?
6. Any significant AD's?
7. They seem to have come with a few different engines ranging from 390hp t
o 450hp - any particular one to avoid?
8. What is the difference between the 685 and the 680FPL?
OK. Back from my trip and will offer what information I still remember fro
m the 685 and 680FLP days -- but my disclaimer is that it's been way too lo
ng since I've been around either, so I'll hope Sir Barry, Bill Leff and Mil
t Concanon will do some fact checking on this.
1. The service ceiling on the 685 is FL250. The 680 has a service ceiling
in excess of FL280 but that's not a fair comparison. For a Part 23 piston
airplane the service ceiling is where a 50 foot per minute climb can not be
sustained. The 685, being the same airframe as the 690 Turbo Commander ha
s its service ceiling set by Part 23 structural requirements for turbine ai
rplanes.
2. Don't remember for sure, but at about 65% power I remember 45 gph block
fuel flow. Can't tell you what the lower power settings would be.
3. 322 is standard fuel on the 685. The 680FLP will have 225. (223 useabl
e)
4. Cylinders? Don't know. If you do everything exactly right on the 685,
you'll only replace 3 cylinders a year.
5. Skydrol is very toxic, expensive and an excellent paint stripper. Thank
you for asking. It also has good fire retardancy and that's why it's used
in high pressure systems.
On the stock AC680-FLP the 3000 psi system runs the cabin supercharger; the
pressure is reduced to 1000 psi for the utilities (Gear, flaps, brakes, no
sewheel steering). The Achilles heel of the AC-680-FLP are the 3000 psi h
ydraulic (Skydrol) pumps. They were hard to find 15 years ago. I can onl
y imagine they're no less difficult to find now.
The 685 has the 1000 psi, Mil-H-5606 (red fluid) hydraulic system and cabin
pressurization is via bleed air from the turbochargers.
6. The 685, being the Turbo Commander airframe, is subject to the recurring
spar corrosion inspection unless one does the spar strap to get rid of the
AD. I don't know of any 685s that did that because the spar mod is more e
xpensive than the cost of the entire airplane -- maybe 2 entire airplanes.
7. The stock AC680-FLP has the Lycoming IGSO-540 engine. 380hp, mechanical
supercharging. This engine was only installed on the 680-F series Aero Co
mmanders. The MR. RPM conversion changes that engine to a Lycoming IO-720
with after market turbochargers, producing 400 hp with turbo normalizing.
Some MR. RPM conversions included a switch to 5606 hydraulic fluid. Bleed
air pressurization eliminates the cabin supercharger on the RPMs.
The AC-685 comes with the Continental GTSIO-520-K producing 435 hp. (Same
engine that Cessna uses on the CE-421 and CE-404 but with the good manners
to only extract 375 hp from it; 435hp is a lot of power to pull out of 520
cubic inches.) This is a turbo charged engine, not supercharged by a mecha
nical supercharger as the AC-680 has.
8. Let's see ... how to do this:
AC-680-FLP
Same airframe as the AC-680-FL -- a stretched version of the AC-500B, reall
y, but with some structural enhancements to allow it to weigh up to 8500 lb
s.
3000 psi Skydrol hydraulic system
pressurization via cabin supercharger
Good runway performance; will generally allow full fuel and 4 seats filled.
Could be pressed into bush service.
AC-685
Same airframe as the 690 Turbo Commanders
1000 psi 5606 hydraulic system
pressurization via tapping bleed air off the turbo chargers
Poor runway performance; full fuel will allow one or two seats filled
Quiet. Comfortable for long duration flights. Belongs on civilized airpor
ts with long runways.
Being based on Part 23 certification requirements for a turbine powered air
plane, the flight manual is modern, very complete and provides more perform
ance information than any of the piston powered Commanders.
If you're obsessed with range, the 685 is your airplane -- but only if it's
just you and one or two skinny super models. 1500 nm might be possible if
you're willing to pull it back to less than 190 to 200 KTAS. I don't have
any data to tell you what fuel burn would be at ultra long range cruise sp
eed. However, there are two things to consider:
To maintain pressurization at FL200 you may have to run more power than wha
t an ultra-long range power setting might be, and, too low a power setting
at initial weight at top of climb will cost in terms of TAS due to the angl
e of attack you'll need to keep the plane in level flight.
I'd think initial cruising in the mid-to-high teens is more conducive to ul
tra long range fuel flow.
Adam, I hope I answered most of your questions. I only wish I had fuel flo
w data vs. TAS to give you, because that's the key to your choice of airpla
nes.
Let us know what your thoughts are.
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft / K.S.Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
m>
Sent: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 6:09 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Can we talk 685's?
Adam,
Too much to discuss via a smartphone that requires everything to be retyped
5 times.
When I get home to a full sized keyboard I'll do my best to answer your que
stions if nobody else has by then.
~KG~
Keith S. Gordon
on the fly
stratobee wrote:
I'd like some more meat on the 685 and/or the 680FPL. I know all the usual
stuff - how it needs a lot of rwy fully loaded, how the engines will ruin y
ou etc, etc.
But what I would like to know more about is real world operation etc:
1.What's the certified ceiling?
2. What can you expect the burn at 20K plus and 55%, 45%, TAS?
3. Do they all come with 322gal tanks or is that an add on?
4. Are cylinders etc plentiful and easy to get hold of?
5. How terrible is the Skydrol system? Does it run the pressurisation as we
ll?
6. Any significant AD's?
7. They seem to have come with a few different engines ranging from 390hp t
o 450hp - any particular one to avoid?
8. What is the difference between the 685 and the 680FPL?
Any experiences greatly appreciated.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386982#386982
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD%
=EF=BD=EF=BDM4=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD
=EF=BDw=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico van niekerk" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Can we talk 685's?
Date: Nov 09, 2012
I reposted Keith's response on our Facebook page:
www.facebook.com/commanderflight
Thanks, Keith.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S.
Gordon
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Can we talk 685's?
I'd like some more meat on the 685 and/or the 680FPL. I know all the
usual stuff - how it needs a lot of rwy fully loaded, how the engines
will ruin you etc, etc.
But what I would like to know more about is real world operation etc:
1.What's the certified ceiling?
2. What can you expect the burn at 20K plus and 55%, 45%, TAS?
3. Do they all come with 322gal tanks or is that an add on?
4. Are cylinders etc plentiful and easy to get hold of?
5. How terrible is the Skydrol system? Does it run the pressurisation as
well?
6. Any significant AD's?
7. They seem to have come with a few different engines ranging from
390hp to 450hp - any particular one to avoid?
8. What is the difference between the 685 and the 680FPL?
OK. Back from my trip and will offer what information I still remember
from the 685 and 680FLP days -- but my disclaimer is that it's been way
too long since I've been around either, so I'll hope Sir Barry, Bill
Leff and Milt Concanon will do some fact checking on this.
1. The service ceiling on the 685 is FL250. The 680 has a service
ceiling in excess of FL280 but that's not a fair comparison. For a Part
23 piston airplane the service ceiling is where a 50 foot per minute
climb can not be sustained. The 685, being the same airframe as the 690
Turbo Commander has its service ceiling set by Part 23 structural
requirements for turbine airplanes.
2. Don't remember for sure, but at about 65% power I remember 45 gph
block fuel flow. Can't tell you what the lower power settings would be.
3. 322 is standard fuel on the 685. The 680FLP will have 225. (223
useable)
4. Cylinders? Don't know. If you do everything exactly right on the
685, you'll only replace 3 cylinders a year.
5. Skydrol is very toxic, expensive and an excellent paint stripper.
Thank you for asking. It also has good fire retardancy and that's why
it's used in high pressure systems.
On the stock AC680-FLP the 3000 psi system runs the cabin supercharger;
the pressure is reduced to 1000 psi for the utilities (Gear, flaps,
brakes, nosewheel steering). The Achilles heel of the AC-680-FLP are
the 3000 psi hydraulic (Skydrol) pumps. They were hard to find 15
years ago. I can only imagine they're no less difficult to find now.
The 685 has the 1000 psi, Mil-H-5606 (red fluid) hydraulic system and
cabin pressurization is via bleed air from the turbochargers.
6. The 685, being the Turbo Commander airframe, is subject to the
recurring spar corrosion inspection unless one does the spar strap to
get rid of the AD. I don't know of any 685s that did that because the
spar mod is more expensive than the cost of the entire airplane -- maybe
2 entire airplanes.
7. The stock AC680-FLP has the Lycoming IGSO-540 engine. 380hp,
mechanical supercharging. This engine was only installed on the 680-F
series Aero Commanders. The MR. RPM conversion changes that engine to a
Lycoming IO-720 with after market turbochargers, producing 400 hp with
turbo normalizing. Some MR. RPM conversions included a switch to 5606
hydraulic fluid. Bleed air pressurization eliminates the cabin
supercharger on the RPMs.
The AC-685 comes with the Continental GTSIO-520-K producing 435 hp.
(Same engine that Cessna uses on the CE-421 and CE-404 but with the good
manners to only extract 375 hp from it; 435hp is a lot of power to pull
out of 520 cubic inches.) This is a turbo charged engine, not
supercharged by a mechanical supercharger as the AC-680 has.
8. Let's see ... how to do this:
AC-680-FLP
* Same airframe as the AC-680-FL -- a stretched version of the AC-500B,
really, but with some structural enhancements to allow it to weigh up to
8500 lbs.
* 3000 psi Skydrol hydraulic system
* pressurization via cabin supercharger
* Good runway performance; will generally allow full fuel and 4 seats
filled. Could be pressed into bush service.
AC-685
* Same airframe as the 690 Turbo Commanders
* 1000 psi 5606 hydraulic system
* pressurization via tapping bleed air off the turbo chargers
* Poor runway performance; full fuel will allow one or two seats filled
* Quiet. Comfortable for long duration flights. Belongs on civilized
airports with long runways.
* Being based on Part 23 certification requirements for a turbine
powered airplane, the flight manual is modern, very complete and
provides more performance information than any of the piston powered
Commanders.
If you're obsessed with range, the 685 is your airplane -- but only if
it's just you and one or two skinny super models. 1500 nm might be
possible if you're willing to pull it back to less than 190 to 200 KTAS.
I don't have any data to tell you what fuel burn would be at ultra long
range cruise speed. However, there are two things to consider:
To maintain pressurization at FL200 you may have to run more power than
what an ultra-long range power setting might be, and, too low a power
setting at initial weight at top of climb will cost in terms of TAS due
to the angle of attack you'll need to keep the plane in level flight.
I'd think initial cruising in the mid-to-high teens is more conducive to
ultra long range fuel flow.
Adam, I hope I answered most of your questions. I only wish I had fuel
flow data vs. TAS to give you, because that's the key to your choice of
airplanes.
Let us know what your thoughts are.
Keith S. Gordon
(aka Wing Commander Gordon)
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: CloudCraft / K.S.Gordon <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 6:09 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Can we talk 685's?
Adam,
Too much to discuss via a smartphone that requires everything to be
retyped 5 times.
When I get home to a full sized keyboard I'll do my best to answer your
questions if nobody else has by then.
~KG~
Keith S. Gordon
on the fly
stratobee wrote:
I'd like some more meat on the 685 and/or the 680FPL. I know all the
usual stuff - how it needs a lot of rwy fully loaded, how the engines
will ruin you etc, etc.
But what I would like to know more about is real world operation etc:
1.What's the certified ceiling?
2. What can you expect the burn at 20K plus and 55%, 45%, TAS?
3. Do they all come with 322gal tanks or is that an add on?
4. Are cylinders etc plentiful and easy to get hold of?
5. How terrible is the Skydrol system? Does it run the pressurisation as
well?
6. Any significant AD's?
7. They seem to have come with a few different engines ranging from
390hp to 450hp - any particular one to avoid?
8. What is the difference between the 685 and the 680FPL?
Any experiences greatly appreciated.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386982#386982
Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
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ww.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-List Email Forum -
ander-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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%=EF=BD=EF=BDM4=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF
=BD=EF=BDw=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2012
Thanks Keith - really appreciate it!
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387357#387357
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2012
At your service.
~KG~
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 4:58 am
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
Thanks Keith - really appreciate it!
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387357#387357
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
Date: Nov 09, 2012
Hi Adam=2C
While I certainly do not profess to know nearly as much a Keith about the a
ircraft=2C here are a couple of observations based on flying about 1=2C000
hours in my 680F(p)=2C which is very similar to the 680FLP. The 680FLP is
longer than the 680F(p). The engines are the same (IGSO540). The New York
Air Brake skydrol pumps can be overhauled at a cost of about $ 4=2C000.00
each. If you purchase a plane which uses Skydrol try to find one which has
been painted with Jet Glow. Jet Glow is very skydrol resistant=2C and alt
hough I have experienced a couple of leaks since having it painted with Jet
Glow none of the paint came off=2C even after sitting for about a week whe
n it was wet. Every other paint comes off if you don't wash it down within
about 1/2 hour with alkey. Skydrol is much less toxic now than it was in
previous times=2C as they changed the formulation several times a few years
ago.
The useful service sealing on the 680F(p) is 22=2C000 feet as the plane mus
t be depressurized at that altitude. The plane likes 16=2C000 to 18=2C000
feet from a speed=2C handling=2C fuel consumption standpoint.
Regards=2CMe
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
> From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Nov 2012 04:58:17 -0800
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Thanks Keith - really appreciate it!
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387357#387357
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2012
The New York Air Brake skydrol pumps can be overhauled at a cost of about $
4,000.00 each. If you purchase a plane which uses Skydrol try to find one
which has been painted with Jet Glow. Jet Glow is very skydrol resistant,
and although I have experienced a couple of leaks since having it painted
with Jet Glow none of the paint came off, even after sitting for about a we
ek when it was wet. Every other paint comes off if you don't wash it down
within about 1/2 hour with alkey. Skydrol is much less toxic now than it w
as in previous times, as they changed the formulation several times a few y
ears ago.
Mo,
Thanks for posting your experience. Great stuff.
Question: Are you field overhauling your New York Airbrake hydraulic pumps
or sending them to an O/H shop. If rebuilding in the field, where do you
get the kits and if sending to a shop, who are you using?
I expect Morris Kernick is the most important resource on the subject.
Also glad to hear Jet Glow holds up to Skydrol. Last AC-680-FLP I visited
had its paint peeling on the right side due to a gear actuator leak and a
leak at the reservoir.
~KG~
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 1:42 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
Hi Adam,
While I certainly do not profess to know nearly as much a Keith about the a
ircraft, here are a couple of observations based on flying about 1,000 hour
s in my 680F(p), which is very similar to the 680FLP. The 680FLP is longe
r than the 680F(p). The engines are the same (IGSO540). The New York Air B
rake skydrol pumps can be overhauled at a cost of about $ 4,000.00 each. I
f you purchase a plane which uses Skydrol try to find one which has been pa
inted with Jet Glow. Jet Glow is very skydrol resistant, and although I ha
ve experienced a couple of leaks since having it painted with Jet Glow none
of the paint came off, even after sitting for about a week when it was wet
. Every other paint comes off if you don't wash it down within about 1/2 h
our with alkey. Skydrol is much less toxic now than it was in previous tim
es, as they changed the formulation several times a few years ago.
The useful service sealing on the 680F(p) is 22,000 feet as the plane must
be depressurized at that altitude. The plane likes 16,000 to 18,000 feet f
rom a speed, handling, fuel consumption standpoint.
Regards,
Me
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
> From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com
> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 04:58:17 -0800
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Thanks Keith - really appreciate it!
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387357#387357
>
>
>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can we talk 685's?
Date: Nov 09, 2012
Keith=2C
Thanks for waking me up on this post as there was a mistake in it. The pum
ps were ONLY about $ 2=2C000.00 each ($ 4=2C000.00 for ship set). It has
been several years (thank goodness) since having these rebuilt. Once=2C I
used Thunder Airmotive=2C Sun Valley=2C CA. (818) 683-0050 and while the bi
rd was at Commander-Aero in OH. we did a spare. The guys at Thunder once d
id a repair and test for only $ 434.00=2C however that was nine years ago.
Also=2C since Solutia Technical Service took over Skydrol they are really g
reat to deal with=2C and once did a complimentary fluid check for me after
an overheating problem. They advised that we filter the fluid by placing a
new filter in my Skydrol mule and running it through the mule filter at le
ast twice. The overheating problem was due to the filter in the tank being
clogged (as diagnosed over the phone by Morris). We have been unable to l
ocate the supplier of parts for a field overhaul=2C but haven't searched in
several years.
Regards=2C
Moe
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Date: Fri=2C 9 Nov 2012 17:14:20 -0500
The New York Air Brake skydrol pumps can be overhauled at a cost of about $
4=2C000.00 each. If you purchase a plane which uses Skydrol try to find o
ne which has been painted with Jet Glow. Jet Glow is very skydrol resistan
t=2C and although I have experienced a couple of leaks since having it pain
ted with Jet Glow none of the paint came off=2C even after sitting for abou
t a week when it was wet. Every other paint comes off if you don't wash it
down within about 1/2 hour with alkey. Skydrol is much less toxic now tha
n it was in previous times=2C as they changed the formulation several times
a few years ago.
Mo=2C
Thanks for posting your experience. Great stuff.
Question: Are you field overhauling your New York Airbrake hydraulic pumps
or sending them to an O/H shop. If rebuilding in the field=2C where do yo
u get the kits and if sending to a shop=2C who are you using?
I expect Morris Kernick is the most important resource on the subject.
Also glad to hear Jet Glow holds up to Skydrol. Last AC-680-FLP I visited
had its paint peeling on the right side due to a gear actuator leak and a
leak at the reservoir.
~KG~
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep=2C Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council=2C NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group=2C NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee=2C NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri=2C Nov 9=2C 2012 1:42 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
Hi Adam=2C
While I certainly do not profess to know nearly as much a Keith about the a
ircraft=2C here are a couple of observations based on flying about 1=2C000
hours in my 680F(p)=2C which is very similar to the 680FLP. The 680FLP is
longer than the 680F(p). The engines are the same (IGSO540). The New York
Air Brake skydrol pumps can be overhauled at a cost of about $ 4=2C000.00
each. If you purchase a plane which uses Skydrol try to find one which has
been painted with Jet Glow. Jet Glow is very skydrol resistant=2C and alt
hough I have experienced a couple of leaks since having it painted with Jet
Glow none of the paint came off=2C even after sitting for about a week whe
n it was wet. Every other paint comes off if you don't wash it down within
about 1/2 hour with alkey. Skydrol is much less toxic now than it was in
previous times=2C as they changed the formulation several times a few years
ago.
The useful service sealing on the 680F(p) is 22=2C000 feet as the plane mus
t be depressurized at that altitude. The plane likes 16=2C000 to 18=2C000
feet from a speed=2C handling=2C fuel consumption standpoint.
Regards=2C
Me
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Can we talk 685's?
> From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com
> Date: Fri=2C 9 Nov 2012 04:58:17 -0800
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Thanks Keith - really appreciate it!
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387357#387357
>
>
>
> >
>
>
ic.com">www.aeroelectric.com
.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
help.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
tor?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
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From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
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________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists?
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________________________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Reminder
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Final Flights
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2012
I'm sad to inform you that TCFG member Dan Brady took his final flight last
month, losing his 4 1/2 month battle with cancer. His health had gradually
declined over the past several years leaving him little time to work on hi
s beloved Commander, N6277B. Our sympathies go out to Dan's family.
And this week N6277B made its final flight from Nevada to Alabama where she
will live on at a Community College teaching young men and women the art o
f aircraft maintenance. A much better fate that being sent to the scrap he
ap and a fitting tribute to Dan.
Godspeed Dan.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Final Flights
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Sad to hear about Dan, although i never met him.
The 500 looks like she was in good shape, but apparently had not flown in a long
time. Did she behave?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388376#388376
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
After almost 3 months at HHR getting probed and touched un-gentlemanlike in all
her cavities, the old girl took to the skies for a brief test flight today. She
was happy to be up basking in the California sun and purred like a kitten with
her newly overhauled prop hubs and cylinders. New metalwork on her tail feathers
as well, so she shook those for everyone to see. No squawks. It's not as
easy to kill an old 520 as one thinks... Personally, I was going crazy not flying
for so long, so it was very nice to be back in the saddle again. Now, I'll
just have to rob a bank to be able to afford that $21K check.....
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388377#388377
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Subject: Re: Final Flights
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Very sad to know of Dan's passing - he was a long term member of the Group.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:07 PM, stratobee wrote:
>
> Sad to hear about Dan, although i never met him.
>
> The 500 looks like she was in good shape, but apparently had not flown in
> a long time. Did she behave?
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388376#388376
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Congratulations on your passion and patience in getting the old gal flying
again Adam!
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:11 PM, stratobee wrote:
>
> After almost 3 months at HHR getting probed and touched un-gentlemanlike
> in all her cavities, the old girl took to the skies for a brief test flight
> today. She was happy to be up basking in the California sun and purred like
> a kitten with her newly overhauled prop hubs and cylinders. New metalwork
> on her tail feathers as well, so she shook those for everyone to see. No
> squawks. It's not as easy to kill an old 520 as one thinks... Personally, I
> was going crazy not flying for so long, so it was very nice to be back in
> the saddle again. Now, I'll just have to rob a bank to be able to afford
> that $21K check.....
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388377#388377
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "CloudCraft / K.S.Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
VGhhdCdzIGEgbW9yZSBjaGVlcmZ1bCByZXBvcnQgdGhhbiBsZWFybmluZyBvbmUgb2Ygb3VyIGZy
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ZWIgRm9ydW1zIQpfLT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCl8t
PQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PQoKCgo
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
I'm afraid the temptation to drink myself silly rather than get the cash would
be far too great... Is there no IRS tax depot somewhere one could heist a little
bit?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388381#388381
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2012
From: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Hi Russell,
Are you still interested in mine 560E previous Chris wall world flight?
--- On Tue, 11/20/12, Russell Legg wrote:
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on keeping an old 520 flying...
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 4:47 AM
Congratulations on your passion and patience in getting the old gal flying
again Adam!=0A
-=0AOn Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:11 PM, stratobee wrot
e:
=0A
After almost 3 months at HHR getting probed and touched un-gentlemanlike in
all her cavities, the old girl took to the skies for a brief test flight t
oday. She was happy to be up basking in the California sun and purred like
a kitten with her newly overhauled prop hubs and cylinders. New metalwork o
n her tail feathers as well, so she shook those for everyone to see. No squ
awks. It's not as easy to kill an old 520 as one thinks... Personally, I wa
s going crazy not flying for so long, so it was very nice to be back in the
saddle again. Now, I'll just have to rob a bank to be able to afford that
$21K check.....
=0A
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388377#388377
=0Aber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. -Click on
=0A/" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
=0AomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
=0A http:/r generous support!
=0AMatronics List Features Navigator to browse
=0As.com/Navigator?Commander-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Commander-List
=0Aronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A=============
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Commander facebook page
Date: Nov 20, 2012
The Commander Facebook page: www.facebook.com/COMMANDERFLIGHT
Folks, we have 196 fans on the Commander Facebook page. We can push that to
over 200 if more than four new visitors would visit the site and click on
the "Like" link, becoming instant fans. There are no obligations and your
taxes won't go up in 2013 because of this. :-D
Our weekly outreach hovers around the 300 mark and we have over 63,000
friends of our 196 fans that could be potential visitors. Our most viewed
article attracted 227 views, which is outstanding. Having more views than
fans shows us that people view our articles but didn't click the Like
button.
If you would recommend to your Facebook (and other) friends to visit and
Like the site if they haven't done so yet, our fan base could soar.
Thanks,
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Nice Comments...
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support
Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available this year, so please browse the nice selection
and pickup something fun with your qualifying Contribution!
You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or feel free to send a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Outstanding service to the flying community.
George A
Matt, I look forward to support each others projects,
Glenn B
Great list!!! Thanks for all your efforts!
Roger C
Thank you for keeping up the lists. Without it i would never
have completed my aircraft.
Stan S
Keep up the good work my friend. I don't think I could ever
finish my Pietenpol Air Camper without the help I get from
this List.
Tom S
Thank you for keeping these list alive.
Lee V
The List is invaluable!!
Svein J
Thanks for continuing to provide the list service!
Earl S
You have a really GREAT service. Thankyou so much I've been on
for nearly 30 years and I still check-in every morning.
John B
I rely fully on the lists which govern my every decision. The
flexibility provides the security I seek.
Fergus K
My RV 7 Finally flies... 7 years of Matronics.com certainly
helped.
Martin H
Great service here, thanks! I am just getting back to a
project I dropped for a few years, great to see your site
and all the folks again!
James C
Thanks for the great site.
Robert U
The Rotax list is good and the AeroElectric list outstanding!
Jay H
Thank you for a great resource!
Jack T
Thanks for your great record of outstanding service to the
homebuilding community!
Larry W
This service is invaluable.
Michael W
You're doing a great job Matt.
Robert D
Thanks for all your work, its a great asset to all.
John F
Thank you for your time & effort Matt!
Ted W
Matt, been a follower since 2005 on the -10 list, now
starting an -8. Keep up the great work!
John M
Still my favorite place to hang out.
William W
I'm not a Piet builder, but this is the most informative and
congenial list I've ever run across. Please forgive my
lurking-I learn a LOT here!
Ken M
Many thanks for keeping this alive, keep pushing!
Adrian C
Thanks! Please keep r going!
Rich Z
Many thanks for your hard work.
Robert C
Thanks for the Lists! I probably need to subscribe to a few
more...
John M
Been a quick 14 years. Think I subscribed to the Kolb
List in 1998, when I got my first computer. Thanks for
keeping everything running smoothly for all these years.
John H
Great resource - thank you.
David M
I don't post very much, but get the postings, a lot of really
practical info.
John N
Great job Matt, thanks for all you do.
Roger M
Thanks for ANOTHER great year, Matt! True grassroots
experimental aviation has been pushed aside in many ways.
But the List represents the evolution of this great
tradition of home-building. One man, the plans, the tools,
and the List - that's all you need to build the dream!
Robert B
This message board is a real help to my project and creating
friendships.
John S
Many thanks for your continuing excellent work.
Mike G
Thank you for your work Matt. Your lists have helped me a
great deal during the construction of my plane.
Hal B
Nice List
Van E
These lists are priceless for builders.
Ronald C
Thanks for keeping me in touch with the Pulsar community.
Otto S
Thanks for keeping up this great warbird sight!!
Yak Ron
Thanks for providing all the lists for so many years.
H H
Thanks for all that you do. Your dedication is much appreciated!
Warren H
Best service on the internet!
Owen B
I have learned so much from the "list".
Nick C
Great Service You Are Providing!
Giffen M
Thanks so much for maintaining these great resources.
Dave S
I no longer fly due to age and health problems, but I still
enjoy the reading from other pilots.
Dallas S
This is a wonderful site.
Robert B
Useful service over the last year - thanks.
Om T
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...?
Dear Listers,
The number of List subscriptions are up by a fair amount this year, but support
during this year's Fund Raiser is substantially behind last year, and there's
only about a week left until the end of the Fund Raiser. I have always preferred
a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed
that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient
funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income might be required
including some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal
Contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping this operation a
float.
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors!
The List Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 23%...
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists
and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public address space.
I also maintain a full
backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the
event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive
data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each
year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you
can use a credit card,
Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick Martin" <nick(at)container.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 23%...
Date: Nov 26, 2012
Matt,
$50 is in the mail to you,,thanks for keeping the Commander list
going...nick, N674NM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Contributions Down By 23%...
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging
behind last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each
year simply to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support
the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the
expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the
Internet connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public
address space. I also maintain a full
backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in
the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List
archive data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant
amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these
costs and I ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution
each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some
incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web
Site, you can use a credit card,
Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these
services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming
in December!
Dear Listers,
There's just a couple more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I
post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the
Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors!
Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by sending your personal check to:
Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind...
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
couple of weeks I have received some more really nice comments from members
on what the Lists have meant to them. I have included a few more of them below.
Please read over the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists
and the support and camaraderie you have found here.
We are still behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really
want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it take
resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the
operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that keeps
things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Hey-Long time subscriber, zero-time contributor. Just a
note of thanks. This is first time I have the resources to
contribute. Thanks for carrying a lightweight for years and
a special thanks for your time and effort.
Billy R
My 601 hd is flying with the help with the listers.
Noel G
A very useful facility.
Graeme B
..great site!
Robert C
Great Pietenpol site!
Don Y
Not active but always interested in keeping up. Enjoy
when I can.
Richard R
Dave and Tim from Aircrafters just want to reiterate our
thanks for hosting the lists.
Tim F.
I don't have a lot to give at this time of year, but I
hope my contribution helps none the less. I really enjoy
the message board.
Mark C
Thanks to your continued work on maintaining these lists.
Ralph C
The lists and the various contributors have been a great
help while I was building and also now that I'm flying.
Albert G
Very helpful tools for the homebuilder.
Vaughn T
We appreciate your great help!
Richard H
Many of our customers have expressed to us that you
provide them with an invaluable service - and we agree!
Bill B
I Fly a Quicksilver GT400 but love to read what the Kolb
boys have to say and it was on your list that I found out
about the Yamaha product Ring Free,, now called engine med,
that shit works.. no carbon in my rings or any to speak of
with the use of the Yamaha product with a premix 503 with
over 300 hrs of use.. thanks to your Kolb bulletin board.
Robert B
You are providing a valuable service that helps a lot of
people through information sharing. When I built my
Pietenpol over 40 years ago we were largely on our own,
working without a resource like this list.
Graham H
Thanks for the opportunity to link us all, keep the good work!
Peter B
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again;
number 49 actually! But it also means that its that last official day of
the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up
one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2012 List of Contributors
Dear Listers,
The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about a week
ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. It is the
people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible!
Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and
I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2012.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Private Pilot magazine
From: "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2012
Hi Barry I need your email to ask you some question about a Commander
Andrew
apg86 at hotmail dot com
--------
Andrew P Geraghty
Corona CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390562#390562
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Christmas Wishes
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in the
rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website www.aerocomman
der.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are welcome. Many thank
s to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and to Barry Collman an
d Russell Legg for their contributions on the history/memoriabilia and mode
l information. We are in awe at the amount of time they spent to put this
together. We believe this is the only place where you will find all of thi
s in one place. It is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2012
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas Jim!=0AAlso, I cannot open your web site...=0A=0ADonnie Ros
e =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: "y
ourtcfg(at)aol.com" =0A>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com =0A
>Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:18 AM=0A>Subject: Commander-List: Chris
tmas Wishes=0A> =0A>=0A>Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers.- May yo
u find a few minutes in the rush of the season to stop and reflect on the r
eal meaning of Christmas.- =0A>=0A>If you haven't done so yet, please ch
eck out our new website http://www.aerocommander.com/.- As it is a work i
n progress, suggestions are welcome.- Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez fo
r undertaking this project and to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their
contributions on the history/memoriabilia and model information.- We are
in awe at the amount of time they spent to put this together.- We believe
this is the only place where you will find all of this in one place.- It
is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lovers.- =0A>=0A>Our best
and warmest wishes-to you and your families. =0A>=0A>Jim & Sue Metzger
=========================0A
===================== =0A>=0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Merry Christmas to all and sundry. May you all have a great and happy
holiday.
Nico, Johanna and Nicolene van Niekerk.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in the
rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and
to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount of
time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only place
where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a treasure for
Commander owners and lovers.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Donny, your web browser might prohibit redirection. www.aerocommander.com
redirects to http://twincommander.org/
So, try that instead. It is indeed a very nice site.
Great job, guys.
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas Jim!
Also, I cannot open your web site...
Donnie Rose
205/492-8444
From: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:18 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in the
rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
http://www.aerocommander.com/. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and
to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount of
time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only place
where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a treasure for
Commander owners and lovers.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
http://ww-- Subject: MC
From: Donnie <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Merry Christmas everybody from N69PT !
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes
From: Donnie <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Willdo, thanks Nico and
H=F0=9F=8E=85 H=F0=9F=8E=85 H=F0=9F=8E=85
Merry Christmas
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 24, 2012, at 2:43 PM, "Nico CSS" wrote:
> Donny, your web browser might prohibit redirection. www.aerocommander.com r
edirects to http://twincommander.org/
> So, try that instead. It is indeed a very nice site.
> Great job, guys.
> Nico
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 10:58 AM
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
>
> Merry Christmas Jim!
> Also, I cannot open your web site...
>
> Donnie Rose
> 205/492-8444
>
>
> From: "yourtcfg(at)aol.com" <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:18 AM
> Subject: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
>
> Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in th
e rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
>
> If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website http://www.ae
rocommander.com/. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are welcome. Ma
ny thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and to Barry Col
lman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the history/memoriabilia an
d model information. We are in awe at the amount of time they spent to put t
his together. We believe this is the only place where you will find all of t
his in one place. It is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
>
> Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
>
> Jim & Sue Metzger
> http://ww--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-L-=====
====
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
> (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
> the Contribution link below to find out more about
> this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
> by:
>
> * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
> * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * HomebuiltHELP w
ww.homebuilthelp.com
> List Contribution Web Site:
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> - The Commander-List Email Forum Use the Matronics List Features
Navigator to browse
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS Same great content also available vi
a the Web Forums!
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2012
Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)gmail.com>
Merry Christmas folks and I trust you all have a great festive season!
Russell
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 2:48 AM, wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in
> the rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of
> Christmas.
>
> If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
> www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
> welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and
> to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
> history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount of
> time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only place
> where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a treasure for
> Commander owners and lovers.
>
> Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
>
> Jim & Sue Metzger
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2012
Subject: Christmas Wishes
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 2:48 AM, wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in
> the rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of
> Christmas.
>
> If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
> www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
> welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and
> to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
> history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount of
> time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only place
> where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a treasure for
> Commander owners and lovers.
>
> Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
>
> Jim & Sue Metzger
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 24, 2012
Wow! I just went to http://twincommander.org/ THIS IS REALLY GREAT.
I haven't forgotten to write some words and send pictures with the text...j
ust haven't gotten aroundtuit. Regarding the 680F(P)
A couple of comments regarding the 680F(p) : (1) "OPERATION OF CABIN PRESSU
RIZATION SYSTEM IS LIMITED TO AN AIRCRAFT ATTITUDE OF 22=2C000 FEET MSL."
per a required placard in the aircraft. In the real world the plane likes
16=2C000 to 18=2C000. (2) Hopefully=2C no one will flight plan for 37.2 GP
H fuel burn=2C as the real figure is closer to 55 GPH from take off to land
ing.
Is anyone going to the Twin Commander University in Scottsdale=2C AZ this y
ear?
Regards=2C
Moe MillsN680RR680F(p)
Date: Tue=2C 25 Dec 2012 08:19:29 +0930
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
From: aero560e(at)gmail.com
Merry Christmas folks and I trust you all have a great festive season!
Russell
On Tue=2C Dec 25=2C 2012 at 2:48 AM=2C wrote:
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in the
rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet=2C please check out our new website www.aerocomm
ander.com. As it is a work in progress=2C suggestions are welcome. Many t
hanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and to Barry Collma
n and Russell Legg for their contributions on the history/memoriabilia and
model information. We are in awe at the amount of time they spent to put t
his together. We believe this is the only place where you will find all of
this in one place. It is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lover
s.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William J Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 25, 2012
All the very best for Christmas and the New Year.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 4:19 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in the
rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and
to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount of
time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only place
where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a treasure for
Commander owners and lovers.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carpenter Avionics <john(at)carpenteravionics.com>
Subject: Re: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 25, 2012
Merry Christmas to all aircraft owners, pilots, managers, and all those who w
ork hard to keep them going.
John Dendekker
Carpenter Avionics
615-355-9970
On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:18 AM, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in th
e rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas.
>
> If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website www.aerocomma
nder.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are welcome. Many thank
s to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and to Barry Collman and
Russell Legg for their contributions on the history/memoriabilia and model i
nformation. We are in awe at the amount of time they spent to put this toge
ther. We believe this is the only place where you will find all of this in o
ne place. It is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
>
> Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
>
> Jim & Sue Metzger
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Christmas Wishes
Date: Dec 25, 2012
John, I gave you a shoutout on the Commander Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/COMMANDERFLIGHT?ref=hl
Merry Christmas
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carpenter Avionics
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
Merry Christmas to all aircraft owners, pilots, managers, and all those
who work hard to keep them going.
John Dendekker
Carpenter Avionics
615-355-9970
On Dec 24, 2012, at 11:18 AM, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in
the rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of
Christmas.
If you haven't done so yet, please check out our new website
www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress, suggestions are
welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project
and to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount
of time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only
place where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a
treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
Jim & Sue Metzger
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
Date: Dec 25, 2012
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Keating<mailto:peggy.keating(at)verizon.net>
belleville ;
lloyd_silverman ; david
wojdac ; sam & aimee
walker ;
mike ; ed
mege ; tom
nelson
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:53 PM
Subject: Fwd: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: John Mitchell <63whiskey(at)gmail.com<mailto:63whiskey(at)gmail.com>>
Date: 24 December, 2012 11:10:33 PM EST
Subject: Fwd: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
Sent from somewhere in the beautiful Western North Carolina Mountains
Begin forwarded message:
From: Date: December 24, 2012, 10:02:20 Subject: Twas the Night
Before Christmas - Aviator Style
An Aviator's 'Twas the Night Before Christmas
Twas the night before Christmas, and out on the ramp,
Not an airplane was stirring, not even a Champ.
The aircraft were fastened to tie downs with care,
In hopes that -- come morning -- they all would be there.
The fuel trucks were nestled, all snug in their spots,
With gusts from two-forty at 39 knots.
I slumped at the fuel desk, now finally caught up,
And settled down comfortably, resting my butt.
When the radio lit up with noise and with chatter,
I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.
A voice clearly heard over static and snow,
Called for clearance to land at the airport below.
He barked his transmission so lively and quick,
I'd have sworn that the call sign he used was "St. Nick."
I ran to the panel to turn up the lights,
The better to welcome this magical flight.
He called his position, no room for denial,
"St. Nicholas One, turnin' left onto final."
And what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a Rutan-built sleigh, with eight Rotax Reindeer!
With vectors to final, down the glideslope he came,
As he passed all fixes, he called them by name:
"Now Ringo! Now Tolga! Now Trini and Bacun!
On Comet! On Cupid!" What pills was he takin'?
While controllers were sittin', and scratchin' their heads,
They phoned to my office, and I heard it with dread,
The message they left was both urgent and dour:
"When Santa pulls in, have him please call the tower."
He landed like silk, with the sled runners sparking,
Then I heard, "Left at Charlie," and "Taxi to parking."
He slowed to a taxi, turned off of three-oh,
And stopped on the ramp with a "Ho, ho-ho-ho..."
He stepped out of the sleigh, but before he could talk,
I ran out to meet him with my best set of chocks.
His red helmet and goggles were covered with frost,
And his beard was all blackened from Reindeer exhaust.
His breath smelled like peppermint, gone slightly stale,
And he puffed on a pipe, but he didn't inhale.
His cheeks were all rosy and jiggled like jelly,
His boots were as black as a cropduster's belly.
He was chubby and plump, in his suit of bright red,
And he asked me to "fill it, with hundred low-lead."
He came dashing in from the snow-covered pump,
I knew he was anxious for drainin' the sump.
I spoke not a word, but went straight to my work,
And I filled up the sleigh, but I spilled like a jerk.
He came out of the restroom, and sighed in relief,
Then he picked up a phone for a Flight Service brief.
And I thought as he silently scribed in his log,
These reindeer could land in an eighth-mile fog.
He completed his pre-flight, from the front to the rear,
Then he put on his headset, and I heard him yell, "Clear!"
And laying a finger on his push-to-talk,
He called up the tower for clearance and squawk.
"Take taxiway Charlie, the southbound direction,
Turn right three-two-zero at pilot's discretion"
He sped down the runway, the best of the best,
"Your traffic's a Grumman, inbound from the west."
Then I heard him proclaim, as he climbed through the night,
"Merry Christmas to all! I have traffic in sight."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2012
Subject: Re: Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
From: Nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Sad News
Date: Dec 26, 2012
Hello All,
I have just heard that, sadly, Ken Hale passed away last Friday, December
21st.
Ken was aged 89 and had served in the Air Force between 1943 and 1946, as a
crew chief and flight engineer on B24 bombers and Beech D-18's.
He had worked for Beech before joining the Aero Design & Engineering
Company at Bethany in 1951, as Assistant Chief Engineer.
This was just a few months after the company had been formed, in October
1950.
He worked for Aero Commander for the rest of his working days, before
retiring as Director of Engineering in 1987.
We were privileged to have Ken join us for the Dinner function when the
Flight Group Fly-In was held in Oklahoma City in 2008.
I realise that many of you will not recognise Ken's name, but his signature
may well appear on some items of Factory paperwork, Manuals or Handbooks
for your Commander.
Some of the items he designed were incorporated into the first Commander
Model, the 520, and stayed throughout the entire production range until the
last Model built, the 695B.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2012
Subject: Re: Sad News
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
Hi Barry,
Indeed very sad news. It was a great privilege to meet Ken in 2008 and then
to subsequently kind of continue to communicate with him via yourself and
others.
Ken has left us with a legendary legacy and millions of hours of amazing
flying.
RIP Ken.
Cheers
Russell
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Barry Collman <
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello All,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have just heard that, sadly, Ken Hale passed away last Friday, December
> 21st.****
>
> ** **
>
> Ken was aged 89 and had served in the Air Force between 1943 and 1946, as
> a crew chief and flight engineer on B24 bombers and Beech D-18=92s.****
>
> He had worked for Beech before joining the Aero Design & Engineering
> Company at Bethany in 1951, as Assistant Chief Engineer.****
>
> This was just a few months after the company had been formed, in October
> 1950.****
>
> He worked for Aero Commander for the rest of his working days, before
> retiring as Director of Engineering in 1987.****
>
> ** **
>
> We were privileged to have Ken join us for the Dinner function when the
> Flight Group Fly-In was held in Oklahoma City in 2008.****
>
> ** **
>
> I realise that many of you will not recognise Ken=92s name, but his
> signature may well appear on some items of Factory paperwork, Manuals or
> Handbooks for your Commander.****
>
> ** **
>
> Some of the items he designed were incorporated into the first Commander
> Model, the 520, and stayed throughout the entire production range until t
he
> last Model built, the 695B.****
>
> ** **
>
> Best Regards,****
>
> Barry Collman****
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Butch milbrandt <butchmwa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 12/25/12
Date: Dec 26, 2012
Merry Christmas to all you Commander folks. Be sure to send matronics a li
ttle donation for Christmas to help support our use of the site.Butch n Lis
a N94WT
> Date: Tue=2C 25 Dec 2012 23:57:33 -0800
> From: commander-list(at)matronics.com
> To: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 12/25/12
>
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=h
tml&Chapter 12-12-25&Archive=Commander
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=t
xt&Chapter 12-12-25&Archive=Commander
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 12/25/12: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:18 AM - Re: Christmas Wishes (Carpenter Avionics)
> 2. 12:17 PM - Re: Christmas Wishes (Nico CSS)
> 3. 02:52 PM - Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style (
lloyd silverman)
> 4. 04:26 PM - Re: Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Styl
e (Nico)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> From: Carpenter Avionics <john(at)carpenteravionics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
>
> Merry Christmas to all aircraft owners=2C pilots=2C managers=2C and all t
hose who w
> ork hard to keep them going.
>
> John Dendekker
> Carpenter Avionics
> 615-355-9970
>
> On Dec 24=2C 2012=2C at 11:18 AM=2C yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in
th
> e rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of Christmas
.
>
> >
> > If you haven't done so yet=2C please check out our new website www.aero
comma
> nder.com. As it is a work in progress=2C suggestions are welcome. Many
thank
> s to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project and to Barry Collman
and
> Russell Legg for their contributions on the history/memoriabilia and mod
el i
> nformation. We are in awe at the amount of time they spent to put this t
oge
> ther. We believe this is the only place where you will find all of this
in o
> ne place. It is truely a treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
> >
> > Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
> >
> > Jim & Sue Metzger
> >
> >
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> ========================
=
> ========
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
>
> John=2C I gave you a shoutout on the Commander Facebook page.
> https://www.facebook.com/COMMANDERFLIGHT?ref=hl
> Merry Christmas
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Carpenter Avionics
> Sent: Tuesday=2C December 25=2C 2012 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Christmas Wishes
>
> Merry Christmas to all aircraft owners=2C pilots=2C managers=2C and all t
hose
> who work hard to keep them going.
> John Dendekker
> Carpenter Avionics
> 615-355-9970
>
> On Dec 24=2C 2012=2C at 11:18 AM=2C yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all Commander Lovers. May you find a few minutes in
> the rush of the season to stop and reflect on the real meaning of
> Christmas.
>
> If you haven't done so yet=2C please check out our new website
> www.aerocommander.com. As it is a work in progress=2C suggestions are
> welcome. Many thanks to Gabriel Fernandez for undertaking this project
> and to Barry Collman and Russell Legg for their contributions on the
> history/memoriabilia and model information. We are in awe at the amount
> of time they spent to put this together. We believe this is the only
> place where you will find all of this in one place. It is truely a
> treasure for Commander owners and lovers.
>
> Our best and warmest wishes to you and your families.
>
> Jim & Sue Metzger
>
>
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 3D
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator St
yle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Keating<mailto:peggy.keating(at)verizon.net>
> belleville =3B
> lloyd_silverman =3B david
> wojdac =3B sam & aimee
> walker =3B
> mike =3B ed
> mege =3B tom
> nelson
> Sent: Monday=2C December 24=2C 2012 11:53 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: John Mitchell <63whiskey(at)gmail.com<mailto:63whiskey(at)gmail.com>>
> Date: 24 December=2C 2012 11:10:33 PM EST
> Subject: Fwd: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviator Style
>
>
> Sent from somewhere in the beautiful Western North Carolina Mountains
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: Date: December 24=2C 2012=2C 10:02:20 Subject: Twas the Night
> Before Christmas - Aviator Style
>
>
> An Aviator's 'Twas the Night Before Christmas
>
>
> Twas the night before Christmas=2C and out on the ramp=2C
>
> Not an airplane was stirring=2C not even a Champ.
>
> The aircraft were fastened to tie downs with care=2C
>
> In hopes that -- come morning -- they all would be there.
>
>
> The fuel trucks were nestled=2C all snug in their spots=2C
>
> With gusts from two-forty at 39 knots.
>
> I slumped at the fuel desk=2C now finally caught up=2C
>
> And settled down comfortably=2C resting my butt.
>
>
> When the radio lit up with noise and with chatter=2C
>
> I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.
>
> A voice clearly heard over static and snow=2C
>
> Called for clearance to land at the airport below.
>
>
> He barked his transmission so lively and quick=2C
>
> I'd have sworn that the call sign he used was "St. Nick."
>
> I ran to the panel to turn up the lights=2C
>
> The better to welcome this magical flight.
>
>
> He called his position=2C no room for denial=2C
>
> "St. Nicholas One=2C turnin' left onto final."
>
> And what to my wondering eyes should appear=2C
>
> But a Rutan-built sleigh=2C with eight Rotax Reindeer!
>
>
> With vectors to final=2C down the glideslope he came=2C
>
> As he passed all fixes=2C he called them by name:
>
> "Now Ringo! Now Tolga! Now Trini and Bacun!
>
> On Comet! On Cupid!" What pills was he takin'?
>
>
> While controllers were sittin'=2C and scratchin' their heads=2C
>
> They phoned to my office=2C and I heard it with dread=2C
>
> The message they left was both urgent and dour:
>
> "When Santa pulls in=2C have him please call the tower."
>
>
> He landed like silk=2C with the sled runners sparking=2C
>
> Then I heard=2C "Left at Charlie=2C" and "Taxi to parking."
>
> He slowed to a taxi=2C turned off of three-oh=2C
>
> And stopped on the ramp with a "Ho=2C ho-ho-ho..."
>
>
> He stepped out of the sleigh=2C but before he could talk=2C
>
> I ran out to meet him with my best set of chocks.
>
> His red helmet and goggles were covered with frost=2C
>
> And his beard was all blackened from Reindeer exhaust.
>
>
> His breath smelled like peppermint=2C gone slightly stale=2C
>
> And he puffed on a pipe=2C but he didn't inhale.
>
> His cheeks were all rosy and jiggled like jelly=2C
>
> His boots were as black as a cropduster's belly.
>
>
> He was chubby and plump=2C in his suit of bright red=2C
>
> And he asked me to "fill it=2C with hundred low-lead."
>
> He came dashing in from the snow-covered pump=2C
>
> I knew he was anxious for drainin' the sump.
>
>
> I spoke not a word=2C but went straight to my work=2C
>
> And I filled up the sleigh=2C but I spilled like a jerk.
>
> He came out of the restroom=2C and sighed in relief=2C
>
> Then he picked up a phone for a Flight Service brief.
>
>
> And I thought as he silently scribed in his log=2C
>
> These reindeer could land in an eighth-mile fog.
>
> He completed his pre-flight=2C from the front to the rear=2C
>
> Then he put on his headset=2C and I heard him yell=2C "Clear!"
>
>
> And laying a finger on his push-to-talk=2C
>
> He called up the tower for clearance and squawk.
>
> "Take taxiway Charlie=2C the southbound direction=2C
>
> Turn right three-two-zero at pilot's discretion"
>
>
> He sped down the runway=2C the best of the best=2C
>
> "Your traffic's a Grumman=2C inbound from the west."
>
> Then I heard him proclaim=2C as he climbed through the night=2C
>
> "Merry Christmas to all! I have traffic in sight."
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Twas the Night Before Christmas - Aviato
r Style
> From: Nico <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
>
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>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2012
Subject: Sad News
From: Russell Legg <aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM>
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Barry Collman <
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello All,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have just heard that, sadly, Ken Hale passed away last Friday, December
> 21st.****
>
> ** **
>
> Ken was aged 89 and had served in the Air Force between 1943 and 1946, as
> a crew chief and flight engineer on B24 bombers and Beech D-18=92s.****
>
> He had worked for Beech before joining the Aero Design & Engineering
> Company at Bethany in 1951, as Assistant Chief Engineer.****
>
> This was just a few months after the company had been formed, in October
> 1950.****
>
> He worked for Aero Commander for the rest of his working days, before
> retiring as Director of Engineering in 1987.****
>
> ** **
>
> We were privileged to have Ken join us for the Dinner function when the
> Flight Group Fly-In was held in Oklahoma City in 2008.****
>
> ** **
>
> I realise that many of you will not recognise Ken=92s name, but his
> signature may well appear on some items of Factory paperwork, Manuals or
> Handbooks for your Commander.****
>
> ** **
>
> Some of the items he designed were incorporated into the first Commander
> Model, the 520, and stayed throughout the entire production range until t
he
> last Model built, the 695B.****
>
> ** **
>
> Best Regards,****
>
> Barry Collman****
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Twin commander at Rose Parade
From: Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 01, 2013
Just enjoyed watching the Rose Parade in person for the first time. Best part
was watching a twin commander flying over the parade route about two dozen times
at around 500 feet back and forth from different directions before the start
of the parade. It looked like a Shrike or 500B with Shrike nose. Thought maybe
it was a photo ship, but did not see a camera port. Anybody know what it
was doing..? Sure looked and sounded great. Happy New Year all you Commander
fans out there.
Randy Dettmer
N6253X / 680F
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2013
From: Viorel Nichols <viorel.nichols(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Auto-response
Away on holiday from the 22 December 2012 till 29 January 2013
Wishing you a happy festive season .
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
from
Viorel ...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Twin commander at Rose Parade
Date: Jan 01, 2013
I believe it is contracted by EPA. There are two based at KJWY.
Kindest regards,
Bill
On Jan 1, 2013, at 15:37, Randy Dettmer wrote:
>
> Just enjoyed watching the Rose Parade in person for the first time. Best part
was watching a twin commander flying over the parade route about two dozen times
at around 500 feet back and forth from different directions before the start
of the parade. It looked like a Shrike or 500B with Shrike nose. Thought
maybe it was a photo ship, but did not see a camera port. Anybody know what
it was doing..? Sure looked and sounded great. Happy New Year all you Commander
fans out there.
>
> Randy Dettmer
> N6253X / 680F
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2013
From: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Twin commander at Rose Parade
ook op weg naar KOMN vanwege weer!!!.....
--- On Tue, 1/1/13, Randy Dettmer wrote:
From: Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Twin commander at Rose Parade
Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2013, 10:37 PM
Just enjoyed watching the Rose Parade in person for the first time.- Best
part was watching a twin commander flying over the parade route about two
dozen times at around 500 feet back and forth from different directions bef
ore the start of the parade.- It looked like a Shrike or 500B with Shrike
nose.- Thought maybe it was a photo ship, but did not see a camera port.
- Anybody know what it was doing..?- Sure looked and sounded great.-
Happy New Year all you Commander fans out there.
Randy Dettmer
N6253X / 680F
Sent from my iPad
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
Date: Jan 06, 2013
WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN
COMMANDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2013
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
I saw a picture and it looked like an Islander, not a Commander.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:26 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN
COMMANDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
*
*
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2013
The media says it's a Britten-Norman BN-2 Islander, although they usually g
et it wrong.
Looks like a Commander to the uninformed.
~KG~
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd silverman <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Sent: Sun, Jan 6, 2013 3:23 pm
Subject: Commander-List: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN COMMA
NDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com" <kitepilot(at)kitepilot.com>
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
Date: Jan 06, 2013
ISLANDER
http://rescate.com/YV2615.jpg
http://rescate.com/
(Sorry, in Spanish...)
ET
lloyd silverman writes:
> WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN COMMANDER
? ANYBODY KNOW ?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2013
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
From: Alan Kucheck <akucheck(at)GMAIL.COM>
confirmed on Daily Beast - Islander.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/05/vittorio-missoni-s-plane-missing-off-coast-of-venezuela.html
ak
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:28 PM, John Vormbaum wrote:
> I saw a picture and it looked like an Islander, not a Commander.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:26 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
>
> WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN
> COMMANDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
>
> *
>
> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listics.com
> .matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2013
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
From: Morris Kernick <comserv500s(at)GMAIL.COM>
This aircraft is a Britain-Norman Islander, you can easily tell by the
dual wheel fixed main gear, & the shape of fuselage & tail group are
different. Morris Kernick
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Alan Kucheck wrote:
> confirmed on Daily Beast - Islander.
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/05/vittorio-missoni-s-plane-missing-off-coast-of-venezuela.html
>
> ak
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:28 PM, John Vormbaum wrote:
>>
>> I saw a picture and it looked like an Islander, not a Commander.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:26 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
>>
>> WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A TWIN
>> COMMANDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
>>
>> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> ics.com
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
Date: Jan 06, 2013
THANKS, THE PHOTO OF THE ISLANDER WAS ON THE TV SCREEN FOR ABOUT 4 OR 5
SECONDS THAT'S WHY THE CONFUSION.
----- Original Message -----
From: Morris Kernick<mailto:comserv500s(at)gmail.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: LOST AIRCRAFT OUT OF VENEZUELA
>
This aircraft is a Britain-Norman Islander, you can easily tell by the
dual wheel fixed main gear, & the shape of fuselage & tail group are
different. Morris Kernick
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Alan Kucheck
> wrote:
> confirmed on Daily Beast - Islander.
>
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/05/vittorio-missoni-s-plane
-missing-off-coast-of-venezuela.html<http://www.thedailybeast.com/article
s/2013/01/05/vittorio-missoni-s-plane-missing-off-coast-of-venezuela.html
>
>
> ak
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:28 PM, John Vormbaum
> wrote:
>>
>> I saw a picture and it looked like an Islander, not a Commander.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2013, at 3:26 PM, lloyd silverman
> wrote:
>>
>> WAS THE PLANE LOST OUT OF VENEZUELA YESTERDAY CARRYING MASSONI A
TWIN
>> COMMANDER ? ANYBODY KNOW ?
>>
>> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> ics.com
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> "
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 560A props
From: scott main <scottmain2003(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2013
.Hi all
Time running out on props on my 1055 560A/L26. Any thoughts on alternate me
thod of compliance? Wearing them out taking them apart and reassembling!
Thanks
Scott Main
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: 560A props
Date: Jan 07, 2013
SCOTT ,AFTER 60+ YEARS OF AIRCRAFT OWNERSHIP, THE ONLY PROP SHOP I WOULD
RECOMMEND IS "SOUTH COAST PROPELLERS". THAT'S ONLY BASED ON MY SAMPLING
OF PROP SHOPS. I'M SURE MORRIS CAN HELP YOU OUT. LLOYD 6290X
----- Original Message -----
From: scott main<mailto:scottmain2003(at)aol.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 9:27 AM
Subject: Commander-List: 560A props
.Hi all
Time running out on props on my 1055 560A/L26. Any thoughts on
alternate method of compliance? Wearing them out taking them apart and
reassembling!
Thanks
Scott Main
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sad News
From: "Peter Bichier" <yvabe560(at)GMAIL.COM>
Date: Jan 15, 2013
Happy New Year Commander Folks!
Just remembering the great times spent together, thank you very much for sharing
all your knowledge, experiences and kindness with the rest of the group.
I also remember Ken Hale in Oklahoma City trying to tell us and mostly discussing
with the other engineer and Barry how in a way all Commander airplanes were
unique in themselves: even though they were trying to standardize all the assembly
line, there were several "last minute" adaptations that made the planes
different as well... Here is a picture of Ken Hale during our TCFG 2008 Fly In.
Barry, who was the other engineer who also gave a talk on the evolution of
the Commander seating next to him?
Hope all is good and while we are alive, let's enjoy!
Take care you all, stay healthy and see you in Tennessee! Anyone leaving from central
California? :)
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392320#392320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9200127_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sad News
Date: Jan 15, 2013
Hello Peter,
No picture of Ken Hale seemed to be attached?
The other engineer would be Bill McGinnis who worked under Ken.
Best Regards,
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Bichier
Sent: 15 January 2013 11:30
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Sad News
Happy New Year Commander Folks!
Just remembering the great times spent together, thank you very much for
sharing all your knowledge, experiences and kindness with the rest of the
group.
I also remember Ken Hale in Oklahoma City trying to tell us and mostly
discussing with the other engineer and Barry how in a way all Commander
airplanes were unique in themselves: even though they were trying to
standardize all the assembly line, there were several "last minute"
adaptations that made the planes different as well... Here is a picture of
Ken Hale during our TCFG 2008 Fly In. Barry, who was the other engineer who
also gave a talk on the evolution of the Commander seating next to him?
Hope all is good and while we are alive, let's enjoy!
Take care you all, stay healthy and see you in Tennessee! Anyone leaving
from central California? :)
p.
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392320#392320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9200127_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2013
Subject: Re: Sad News
From: Peter Bichier <yvabe560(at)GMAIL.COM>
Hum... it shows up on matronics... let me also attach it here see if you
get it this way.
If not, I'll send it to you directly to your email. Let me know!
cheers,
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Peter Bichier wrote:
>
> Happy New Year Commander Folks!
>
> Just remembering the great times spent together, thank you very much for
> sharing all your knowledge, experiences and kindness with the rest of the
> group.
>
> I also remember Ken Hale in Oklahoma City trying to tell us and mostly
> discussing with the other engineer and Barry how in a way all Commander
> airplanes were unique in themselves: even though they were trying to
> standardize all the assembly line, there were several "last minute"
> adaptations that made the planes different as well... Here is a picture of
> Ken Hale during our TCFG 2008 Fly In. Barry, who was the other engineer who
> also gave a talk on the evolution of the Commander seating next to him?
>
> Hope all is good and while we are alive, let's enjoy!
>
> Take care you all, stay healthy and see you in Tennessee! Anyone leaving
> from central California? :)
>
> p.
>
> --------
> 560 Dreamer
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392320#392320
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9200127_207.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Non-Commander Question: Biplanes
Date: Jan 18, 2013
Hello everybody,
Forgive me bringing a biplane aerodynamics question to the Commander forum
but hopefully somebody can answer this.
I was always under the impression that a biplane's wings were staggered
wither negatively (as in the Beech Staggerwing) or positively (e.g. Tiger
Moth) so the bottom and top wings do not interfere with each other, so
negating some lift. However, looking at a picture of the Antonov An2/An3
Colt, there is no noticeable stagger. Does the stagger negate lift conflict?
Or was I wrong in my thinking?
I do understand that the stagger changes the centre of lift on the wings,
that it improves stability, and so on, but do unstaggered wings interfere,
even to a slight degree, with lift generation?
Thanks in advance.
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 685 vs. Aerostar
From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
Date: Jan 19, 2013
Here we go again.. :D
As I look ahead for my future flying and something to grow into, once again my
thoughts come back to the 685. I've read Milt Concannon's summary about it and
how he thinks it's just a little bit misunderstood.
My work takes me all over the US, and I'd love to be able to fly myself there when
it's feasible and weather permits. I'd ideally need all weather capability,
long range and pressurization. Especially long range. I'd kind of set my sights
on Ted Smiths's other design, the Aerostar as a good step up. In fact, I came
very close to buying an immaculate one about 6 months ago, but couldn't quite
make the finances work in time.
But as I look at the 685's for sale just sitting there month in and month out and
not moving - prices keep going down - I couldn't help but start comparing the
two again. A 685 can be had for about the same price as an Aerostar, give or
take.
PROS OF 685:
1. Now, what's good about the 685 is that it has many of the things I want already
built in. First of all it's a Commander, but secondly it has insane range,
full de-ice and all that good stuff. Stuff that I'd have to add on the Aerostar
most likely, at least the aux fuel tank to get comparable range. That's a $15000
modification just for the aux tank. Most of them don't have full certification
for icing, but can be upgraded for another $10K or something. It adds up.
2. The other "advantage", if one may say so is that a 685 would probably able to
land at a smooth grass field or a dirt strip without shedding a leg, whereas
the Aerostar would probably not. I realize none of them are particularly well
suited for backcountry flying, but if there's a choice the 685 is probably better
at it.
3. The Aerostar has a racy wing and won't tolerate you going slow, so even though
it's 3000lbs lighter, you'll use the same amount of rwy and touch down at the
same speed. None of them are short field performers.
The Aerostar has a life limit on most of it's windows (just below 5000hrs) and
the front wind shield is about $20K. I'm assuming the 685 has no such vices?
CONS OF 685:
1. The Aerostar is probably the most economical twin for fuel one can fly. 25gph
at LOP and 190-200kts. That's hard to beat. I'm assuming the 685, leaned to
within an inch of its life, would struggle to get below 35-38gph at speeds around
180-190kts. On a long cross country that's a difference of about 100gal..
2. The Aerostar has "normal" engines and none of that funny stuff. That said, my
geared engines have not given me undue trouble and I know of quite a few people
who fly geared and have little problems. However, the 685's is the most highly
strung of the geared engines and I've heard that a couple of cylinders will
pop each year. Just how it is. And should they need an overhaul, we're talking
$50K/pop. Phew.
3. The Aerostar is also fully supported, whereas I'm assuming the 685 is probably
not.
4. I also fly predominantly alone or with few passengers - do I really need to
lug around 9000lbs of airplane for one person? Seems a bit irresponsible almost...
Who the most reliable is mechanically is probably also a draw. I'm assuming they'll
see the equal amount of insides of hangars. Good thing is that I know a lot
more people that can give good advice in the Commander community than I do
in Aerostars.
Thoughts on this subject?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392628#392628
________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?utf-8?B?eW91cnRjZmdAYW9sLmNvbQ==?= <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IENvbW1hbmRlci1MaXN0OiBOb24tQ29tbWFuZGVyIFF1ZXN0aW9uOiBCaXBs?=
=?utf-8?B?YW5lcw==?
Date: Jan 19, 2013
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ICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1h
dHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2013
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Non-Commander Question: Biplanes
From: Peter Bichier <yvabe560(at)GMAIL.COM>
The staggering also helps to avoid both wings stalling at the same time;
usually the lower smaller wing stalls first, then if you continue with that
same AOA or increase it, then the second wing stalls.
p.
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 8:15 AM, yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote:
> **
> You are correct, the stagger is to help negate the interferance of the
> wings. It also helps extend the wing cg by avereging the the center of li
ft
> over both wigs. The antinov wings are probably far enough apart that they
> bony effect wash other. Don't know about the ch? Jb
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
> To:
> Subject: Commander-List: Non-Commander Question: Biplanes
> Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 9:14 am
>
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> Forgive me bringing a biplane aerodynamics question to the Commander foru
mbut hopefully somebody can answer this
> .
>
> I was always under the impression that a biplane=92s wings were staggered
wither
> negatively (as in the Beech Staggerwing) or positively (e.g. Tiger Moth)
so
> the bottom and top wings do not interfere with each other, so negating
> some lift. However, looking at a picture of the Antonov An2/An3 Colt,
> there is no noticeable stagger. Does the stagger negate lift conflict? Or
> was I wrong in my thinking?
>
> I do understand that the stagger changes the centre of lift on the wings,
> that it improves stability, and so on, but do unstaggered wings interfere
,
> even to a slight degree, with lift generation?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Andrew
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Commander For Sale At LVK...
Just in case you guys didn't happen to see this:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=851208
Best,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2013
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/23/13
Looks ferryable to me.=0A=0A=0AFrom: Commander-List Digest Server <commande
r-list(at)matronics.com>=0ATo: Commander-List Digest List =0ASent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:57 AM=0ASubject: C
ommander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/23/13=0A=0A*=0A=0A=======
===================0A- Online Version
s of Today's List Digest Archive=0A=============
=============0A=0AToday's complete Commander-List D
igest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.-
The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a
web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.-
The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Commander-List Dig
est and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with
a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/d
igest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-01-23&Archive
=Commander=0A=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/diges
t/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-01-23&Archive=Co
mmander=0A=0A=0A===================
=====0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A===
=====================0A=0A=0A-
- - - - ----------------------------------------------------------
=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Commander-List Diges
t Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages P
osted Wed 01/23/13: 1=0A- - - - - -------------------------------
---------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A--------------
--------=0A=0A- - 1. 06:59 PM - Commander For Sale At LVK...- (Matt D
ralle)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1- ________
Dralle =0ASubject: Commander-List: Commander For Sal
e At LVK...=0A=0A=0A=0AJust in case you guys didn't happen to see this:=0A
=0Ahttp://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=851208=0A=0ABest,=0A
=0AMatt Dralle=0A=0A=0AMatt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Liverm
ore | CA | 94550=0A925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com E
mail=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft=0A
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Gerrish" <virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 02, 2013
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth
information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until
today.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My
partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last several
years
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the week I
went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was at 150PSI
for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to 300PSI. Did not
fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and there is a big puddle
of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the
reservoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like the fluid just
went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floor. OK, so I am
thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of
internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into
the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I'm
sure will research this but I am wondering if others have had this kind of
thing happen to them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators, or
if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix them
themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moe Mills <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 02, 2013
Hi Dave=2C
Back on May 24=2C 2004 Scott Dickey made a two page post=2C which I believe
will address your accumulator problems. If you can not find it in the arc
hives please email me jack(at)eclipseindustries.com and I will scan it and se
nd it to you. This was a very good post=2C therefore=2C I printed it and h
ave kept it with my secret hydraulic file.
Regards=2C
"Moe" MillsN680RR680F(p)
From: virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Sat=2C 2 Feb 2013 15:33:29 -0500
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth
information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until t
oday.I own one half of a 500S=2C N47AC=2C based in Warrenton=2C Virginia KH
WY. My partner=2C Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the las
t several years with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earl
ier in the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic ga
ge was at 150PSI for no known reason=2C so I pumped it with nitrogen back t
o 300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and the
re is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle.
Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like t
he fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floo
r. OK=2C so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must ha
ve some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydra
ulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full=2C onto the floor it go
es. Ken and I I=92m sure will research this but I am wondering if others h
ave had this kind of thing happen to them?I am also wondering if others jus
t get rebuilt=2C yellow tagged actuators=2C or if they buy new ones or if t
hey pull the darn things apart and fix them themselves=2C assuming they mea
t dimensional specs.Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Gerrish
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pneumatic leak?
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2013
OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have som
e kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic f
luid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes.
Dave,
I'm not an aircraft mechanic (I find it's way easier and faster to break an
airplane that to fix one) but you could have one or both of the outboard "
pneudraulic" actuators by-passing pneumatic pressure.
Morris Kernick taught me long ago that if you take a clean rag and hold it
over and then open the Schraeder valve for the nitrogen bottle any hydrauli
c fluid in that system will blow out onto the rag. Best to use a white rag
rather than the usual red shop towel for this test.
Hydraulic fluid on the rag would show that your pneumatic and hydraulic sys
tems are "communicating" with each other.
An O-ring rebuild kit may be all that's needed but your statement about hav
ing an "interesting time over the last several years with the landing gear
actuators," is an interesting statement.
... As in the ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gerrish <virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 12:35 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth
information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until t
oday.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My par
tner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last several yea
rs
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the week
I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was at 150PSI
for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to 300PSI. Did not
fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and there is a big puddle
of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the res
ervoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like the fluid just went
out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floor. OK, so I am th
inking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of inte
rnal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the
reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I
=99m sure will research this but I am wondering if others have had this kin
d of thing happen to them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators, or
if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix them th
emselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 02, 2013
MY 500B HAS HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS. ONE ACTUATOR IN EACH NACELLE IS
HYDRAULIC ON ONE END & PNUEMATIC ON THE OTHER END. O RING FAILURES WILL
ALLOW THEM TO MIX. MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE THE NITROGEN TANK IN THE
BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT DURING THE REPAIR AS IT TENDS TO COLLECT THE FLUID
TRAVELING IN THE PNUEMATIC SYSTEM. GOOD LUCK, LLOYD N6290X
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S. Gordon<mailto:cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must
have some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the
hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor
it goes.
Dave,
I'm not an aircraft mechanic (I find it's way easier and faster to
break an airplane that to fix one) but you could have one or both of the
outboard "pneudraulic" actuators by-passing pneumatic pressure.
Morris Kernick taught me long ago that if you take a clean rag and
hold it over and then open the Schraeder valve for the nitrogen bottle
any hydraulic fluid in that system will blow out onto the rag. Best to
use a white rag rather than the usual red shop towel for this test.
Hydraulic fluid on the rag would show that your pneumatic and
hydraulic systems are "communicating" with each other.
An O-ring rebuild kit may be all that's needed but your statement
about having an "interesting time over the last several years with the
landing gear actuators," is an interesting statement.
... As in the ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting
times."
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gerrish <virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
To: commander-list
Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 12:35 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and
forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in.
Until today.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY.
My partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last
several years
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the
week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was
at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to
300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and
there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left
nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks
to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir
on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear
actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the
nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets
full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I=99m sure will research
this but I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to
them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged
actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart
and fix them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
tor?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 03, 2013
iF i AM NOT MISTAKEN, the gauge you are referring to is the blow down
bottle pressure, right? The one on the bottle in the baggage
compartment? It has been our experiance that when the blow down bottle
is over filled it can cause all kinds of problems like this...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Gerrish
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and
forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in.
Until today.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY.
My partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last
several years
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the
week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was
at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to
300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and
there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left
nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks
to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir
on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear
actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the
nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets
full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I'm sure will research this but
I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged
actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart
and fix them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/03/13
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 03, 2013
Chuck Swan replied to this email thread:
https://www.facebook.com/COMMANDERFLIGHT/posts/505637129487977?comment_id
=5309683¬if_t=feed_comment
Greetings,
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
MY 500B HAS HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS. ONE ACTUATOR IN EACH NACELLE IS
HYDRAULIC ON ONE END & PNUEMATIC ON THE OTHER END. O RING FAILURES WILL
ALLOW THEM TO MIX. MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE THE NITROGEN TANK IN THE
BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT DURING THE REPAIR AS IT TENDS TO COLLECT THE FLUID
TRAVELING IN THE PNUEMATIC SYSTEM. GOOD LUCK, LLOYD N6290X
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith S. Gordon <mailto:cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have
some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the
hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor
it goes.
Dave,
I'm not an aircraft mechanic (I find it's way easier and faster to break
an airplane that to fix one) but you could have one or both of the
outboard "pneudraulic" actuators by-passing pneumatic pressure.
Morris Kernick taught me long ago that if you take a clean rag and hold
it over and then open the Schraeder valve for the nitrogen bottle any
hydraulic fluid in that system will blow out onto the rag. Best to use
a white rag rather than the usual red shop towel for this test.
Hydraulic fluid on the rag would show that your pneumatic and hydraulic
systems are "communicating" with each other.
An O-ring rebuild kit may be all that's needed but your statement about
having an "interesting time over the last several years with the landing
gear actuators," is an interesting statement.
... As in the ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting
times."
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gerrish <virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 12:35 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and
forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in.
Until today.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My
partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last
several years
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the
week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was
at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to
300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and
there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left
nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks
to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir
on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear
actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the
nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets
full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I=99m sure will research
this but I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to
them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators,
or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix
them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
tor?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2013
From: Robert Feldtman <bobf(at)feldtman.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/03/13
regarding "overfill" - I agree. Did you believe the pressure guage?
Maybe it is in error and indeed the pressure was higher and you did have
an overfill situation. OTOH could also be O-ring deterioration. If
pressure was "down" maybe that is why it was.
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scottmain2003(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 04, 2013
Subject: exhaust clamp
Gentlemen,
I have noticed that my exhaust collector clamp is getting pretty tired. I
am looking for some replacements. The part# is 5610130-31. This is the clamp
that attaches to the rear of the exhaust headers where they sit in the
front of the augmenter tube. It looks like three clamps that have been brazed
together in a triangular shape and connects the three headers to reduce
vibration. My installation is on a 560 A, If you have any of these or are
aware of a source please let me know.
Thanks
_scottmain2003(at)aol.com_ (mailto:scottmain2003(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/03/13
Date: Feb 04, 2013
PRESSURE CAN COME DOWN AS A RESULT OF A NITROGEN LEAK ANYWHERE IN THE
SYSTEM. MOST NITROGEN BOTTLES HAVE GAGES WHICH ALTHOUGH NOT CALIBRATED
CAN BE USED FOR A ROUGH CHECK OF YOUR GAGE WHEN FILLING. HYDRAULIC FLUID
IN THE PNEUMATIC SYSTEM IS A POSITIVE INDICATION OF A LEAK IN THE GEAR
ACTUATOR.(HYDRAULIC/PNEUMATIC).
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Feldtman<mailto:bobf(at)feldtman.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 8:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/03/13
>
regarding "overfill" - I agree. Did you believe the pressure guage?
Maybe it is in error and indeed the pressure was higher and you did
have
an overfill situation. OTOH could also be O-ring deterioration. If
pressure was "down" maybe that is why it was.
-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <lloydsss11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic leak?
Date: Feb 04, 2013
THE GAGE I REFERRED TO IS THE ONE MEASURING NITROGEN PRESSURE.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Owens<mailto:dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
iF i AM NOT MISTAKEN, the gauge you are referring to is the blow down
bottle pressure, right? The one on the bottle in the baggage
compartment? It has been our experiance that when the blow down bottle
is over filled it can cause all kinds of problems like this...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Gerrish<mailto:virginia.gerrish(at)verizon.net>
To:
commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak?
Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back
and forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed
in. Until today.
I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY.
My partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last
several years
with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in
the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage
was at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to
300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and
there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left
nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks
to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir
on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear
actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the
nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets
full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I'm sure will research this but
I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to them?
I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged
actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart
and fix them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs.
Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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From: =?utf-8?B?eW91cnRjZmdAYW9sLmNvbQ==?= <yourtcfg(at)aol.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IENvbW1hbmRlci1MaXN0OiBleGhhdXN0IGNsYW1w?
Date: Feb 04, 2013
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airbus 380 Heavy- first landing at SFO
Date: Feb 13, 2013
From: "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com>
http://www.wimp.com/approachlanding/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Airbus 380 Heavy- first landing at SFO
Date: Feb 14, 2013
Very nice footage, Bob. I reposted it on the Commander Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/commanderflight
Thanks
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steele, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Airbus 380 Heavy- first landing at SFO
http://www.wimp.com/approachlanding/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Follow up
Date: Mar 11, 2013
Folks,
At the fly-in in September last year, I talked to some of you about the
political situation in the country and I said that we are working on a
project that will restore individual liberty, which is (almost) a-political.
All we want is for politicians to be honest about their intentions and that
they keep their promises to their voters, whether they propose communism or
conservatism. It doesn't matter: just be honest about it when our votes are
being solicited. That's all.
The first phase of this project was launched on Sunday 3/10 and the link
below will take you to a clip of about 60 seconds to give you an idea where
we are going.
I have worked tirelessly for two years, worked 80+ hours per week, almost
24x7 to get the project to this point. Several people gave me feedback
earlier, which was exceptionally valuable.
If there are any folks who would want to help with the heavy lifting to get
our country back on track, which might stretch beyond our lifetimes, please
let me know. But do listen to the clips in the link and let me know if you
would want to participate.
I know it's not directly about aviation and perhaps less about Commanders,
but it is so crucial to all our interests in an indirect manner, it would be
irresponsible to ignore and not do anything while we have young men and
women, who have their whole lives ahead of them, facing bullets, bombs and
terrorists for our sakes. This effort is to get into the trenches with them
in another way, but hopefully also effective in some manner.
Many thanks and do let me know.
Nico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbrkaXO1BA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Victor Rupert <v-man@v-man.net>
Subject: Follow up
Date: Mar 12, 2013
Not sure what I can do... I'd love to have the country I remember back...
Sent from my Windows 8 Phone
-----Original Message-----
From: "Nico CSS" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: =8E3/=8E11/=8E2013 5:17 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Follow up
Folks,
At the fly-in in September last year, I talked to some of you about the pol
itical situation in the country and I said that we are working on a project
that will restore individual liberty, which is (almost) a-political. All w
e want is for politicians to be honest about their intentions and that they
keep their promises to their voters, whether they propose communism or con
servatism. It doesn't matter: just be honest about it when our votes are be
ing solicited. That's all.
The first phase of this project was launched on Sunday 3/10 and the link be
low will take you to a clip of about 60 seconds to give you an idea where w
e are going.
I have worked tirelessly for two years, worked 80+ hours per week, almost 2
4x7 to get the project to this point. Several people gave me feedback earli
er, which was exceptionally valuable.
If there are any folks who would want to help with the heavy lifting to get
our country back on track, which might stretch beyond our lifetimes, pleas
e let me know. But do listen to the clips in the link and let me know if yo
u would want to participate.
I know it's not directly about aviation and perhaps less about Commanders,
but it is so crucial to all our interests in an indirect manner, it would b
e irresponsible to ignore and not do anything while we have young men and w
omen, who have their whole lives ahead of them, facing bullets, bombs and t
errorists for our sakes. This effort is to get into the trenches with them
in another way, but hopefully also effective in some manner.
Many thanks and do let me know.
Nico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbrkaXO1BA
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 685 vs. Aerostar
From: "cannuck" <pmdolan(at)sasktel.net>
Date: Mar 15, 2013
I a no Commander expert, but my travel for the last 20 years has been restricted
because I had to haul too much equipment to fly (not pounds too much, TONS).
I did my personal travel in a Tiger that I nearly wore out, and had a 3NM (C-45
to you South of 49) that we operated commercially in the bush. I have been
agonizing over exactly the same consideration.
I find that a commander with its spar done comes pretty close to the price of a
good aerostar. A commander with a pair of IO-720s has an engine cost not much
different from a U2A converted Superstar. and so on it goes. The ultimate
difference is that a 601P or 602P can be brought up to the very latest in state
of the art improvements - with an airframe and mod cost with zero time engines
of $800k+. I don't know what a Grand Rennaisance Commander would run, but
I expect just a little bit less.
If you buy something at the lower end of the price spectrum, you ARE going to have
maintenance costs that will move you somewhere up the ladder over time. So
you pick your point in that range with EITHER airplane, sort of a wash.
Unless you are carrying a lot of people, my feeling is now that the Aerostar offers
so much better speed (particularly with Superstars) and economy, it is pretty
much a given for one to three pax. (I had considered carrying more, but
we have since backed off that a bit). IF you are going to do rough field, no
question you want the Commander. I have seen a few Shrikes operating in the North,
and they work really well on partially improved fields. Like Commanders,
there seem to be a lot for sale, the price keeps going down, and it is easy
to find one with known ice, 5 psi pressurization, and good engine times with decent
avionics - FAR below replacement costs.
Perfect time to have this problem.
--------
AA1 and AA5B former (future?) owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396347#396347
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fwd: Bob Hoover and Shawn Tucker - April 10, 2013 Chattanooga
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2013
Hey All, If you live anywhere close I would highly recommend attending. A
nd, if any of you do go please post a report.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aircntr <Aircntr(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 21, 2013 9:56 am
Subject: Bob Hoover and Shawn Tucker - April 10, 2013 Chattanooga
Hey Jim Bob,
Bob Hoover and Shawn Tucker will be speaking at the new Wilson Air Center F
BO here in Chattanooga on April 10. It will start a 7 PM and will be an in
formal evening with each of them speaking. Mr. Wilson of Wilson Air Center
is bringing them to Chattanooga for the evening. There will be light hors
d'oeuvre served. I'm going to have Everett Lybolt's Shrike on display too
.
I would like to have a good turn out of Commander owners to be there to hea
r a couple of aviation legions.
Wilson Air Center has also agreed to host the Flight Groups annual meeting
in September. So this would be a good practice run on the facility and wha
t Chattanooga has to offer.
Please let me know if you need anything else.
With kindest regards,
Gary L. Gadberry
President
Aircenter, Inc.
115 Nowlin Lane
Suite 2000
Chattanooga, TN 37421
(423) 893-5444
(423) 893-5004 (fax)
(423) 488-1691 (mobile)
www.aircenterinc.com
aircntr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "andy downs" <andy(at)58November.com>
Subject: Commander 58 November Hijacking
Date: Mar 29, 2013
Commander Fans,
My name is Andy Downs and I am producing a documentary called 58 November.
The name 58 November was the tail number of my father's plane, a 681 Turbo
Commander.
My father was the first captain killed in a US hijacking Oct 4, 1971 in
Jacksonville Florida. The documentary will recount the incident and the
landmark legal case that followed.
You can see videos and interviews of eyewitnesses and lawyers that took part
in the case by going to
http://igg.me/at/58November/x/1678943
We need all aviators and aviation fans to please join us in this campaign to
make a part of aviation history become reality.
Check out on the site the 58 November Pilot Ball Caps while you are on the
site as well.
My contact information is listed below, and I look forward to your thoughts
and support.
Andy Downs
58 November
1756 Cozumel Ct
Murfreesboro, Tennessee 37128
USA
615-474-0590
Skype: Downs58November
www.58November.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "andy downs" <andy(at)58November.com>
Subject: Commander 58 November Pilot Ball Caps
Date: Mar 29, 2013
Oreder Your 58 November Pilot Bal Cap Today
You will be helping make the documentary film
58November: First Captain killed in US Hijacking
Free Shipping in US/CAN
at
http://igg.me/at/58November/x/1678943
Andy Downs
58 November
1756 Cozumel Ct
Murfreesboro, Tennessee 37128
USA
615-474-0590
Skype: Downs58November
www.58November.com