EZ-Archive.digest.vol-aa
March 28, 1999 - August 31, 2000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | First Message To EZ List... |
This is the fisrt message to the new EZ-List.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Matronics Email Server Restored... |
Dear Listers,
As I have mentioned, there has been a problem with the Matronics Email
System machine over the last few weeks. The system would randomly lock
up and require a powercycle to restore operation. Often there would be
a few disk errors following the reboot, and these errors would cause
the 'blank messages' that a number of people mentioned.
Last night about 9:30pm the email system hung again and this time wouldn't
restart. Today I procured a whole new system to replace the old hardware
and as of 3:00pm the email system is back online and fully operational.
For those that are interested in such things, the new system is built around
a new ASUS P2B-DS Dual Pentium II mother board with builtin Ultra 2 SCSI
controller. I added two 400mhz Pentinum II processors and 512Mb of 100mhz
SDRAM and used the existing 4Gb Seagate Cheetah HD. The system is now similar
in configuration to the Matronics Web server and represents an over 2x increase
in performance over the older email system! It should also prove to be
enormously more reliable if the MTBF of the Matronics Web Server is
any indication! (The web server has been up for over 3 months at one
point and then I just took it down to move cables).
Anyway, those List email messages should just fly out of here now!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator, Matronics
RV-4 Builder, Sometimes
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Agnes Nadia <agnesr29(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New Aircraft on the Web |
New Aircraft On the Web:
Cristi'S Aircraft Page
http://www.geocities.com/FashionAvenue/Mall/4691/
You will find here american, russian and european
military aircraft (FIGHTERS, BOMBERS, ATTACKERS)
Thank's!
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Agnes Nadia <agnesr29(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New Aircraft on the Web |
New Aircraft On the Web:
Cristi'S Aircraft Page
http://www.geocities.com/FashionAvenue/Mall/4691/
You will find here american, russian and european
military aircraft (FIGHTERS, BOMBERS, ATTACKERS)
Thank's!
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VM 1000 deal of a lifetime |
glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Gentlemen!!
I am not usually on this list, however, I have a deal that is too good for
ya'll to pass up. I have arranged for the OEM pricing from Vision
Microsystems for the VM 1000 (4 cylinder or 6 cylinder), and the EC100
warning and cautionary system. I am offering everyone the same deal. For the
first 25 sold, I will sell the VM1000 and the EC100 at my OEM cost.
VM 1000 (4 cylinder) retails for $4082, I will sell it for $3061.50. The VM
1000 (6 cylinder) retails for $4404.50, I will sell it for $3303.50. The EC
100 retails for $705.00, I will sell it for $600.
This is too good to pass up! Only for the first 25 customers.
Send your name, your aircraft type, engine type, ignition type and check to:
Team Rocket, Inc.
2731 S.E. Tailwinds Rd.
Jupiter, FL 33478
Scott Brown
Team Rocket, Inc.
561-748-2429
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
"Kolb-List: archives" (Jun 11, 11:17am)
yak-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com
>--------------
>Does any one know if the there is a site that the entire archive could be
>downloaded from, or is that allowed?
>
>Ron
>--------------
Ron,
Go to the following URL and scroll to the bottom of the page. Here you can
download the archives of your choice.
http://www.matronics.com/archives
You can also FTP the same from the following FTP site:
ftp://www.matronics.com/pub/Archives/
Best Regards,
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
For Sale!
O-320 E2A (Piper 140) engine core. Everything except carb. No logs.
Approximately 400 hours. Can still see the cross hatch on the cylinders.
Crank flange bent .0425. You must pick up.
$3800.00
Ernesto Sanchez
Santa Maria, CA
es12043(at)utech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THEZING3(at)AOl.com |
HI ERNESTO, CAN YOU TELL ME ALITTLE MORE ABOUT THE ENGINE. DO
YOU HAVE THE LOGS. HAS IT EVER HAD A BLADE STRIKE. WHAT IS IT GOING
TO TAKE TO GET IT UP TO FLYING SHAPE
THANKS
STAN Z
THEZING3(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
Hi,
The engine is a low time Piper 140 engine (O-320 E2A). Everything
(pump, mags, vac pump, flywheel, alt, starter) is there except the carb. I
pulled one of the cylinders to look inside the motor. It looks clean
inside. On the cylinder walls you can still see the crosshatch. There is a
little carbon on the piston top. It has 1/2" valves and it looks like an
oil pump AD has been done. The cam looks good. No rust. The Piper 140 that
it came out of sat at a local airfield for years. The fuel vents were
plugged by bug nest, I believe. It was taken for a flight and the engine
stopped because of fuel starvation. The plane was put down in a river bed.
No visible damge. The prop was not moving but a blade was down and bent the
flange (.0425). I found a crank in OK for $2500. It's a great core for
someone. No logs but I have other info. I was going to use it but I need
more HP (0-360). It's on a stand too.
Best wishes,
Ernesto Sanchez
Santa Maria, CA
(805)-925-9419
es12043(at)utech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List: Fwd: [Fwd: Message from America Online Staff!] |
In a message dated 7/2/99 9:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Hr2pilot(at)aol.com
writes:
<<
From: Cynthadon(at)aol.com
Full-name: Cynthadon
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:54:46 EDT
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: Message from America Online Staff!]
To: BarnabyJnz(at)aol.com, Hr2pilot(at)aol.com
Dear America Online and Instant Message users,
Our America Online staff is planning to take away our Instant messages by
July
14,1999. If you want to keep your Instant Messages free of charge,send this
mail to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. Each person you
send this to, counts as one "signature." If this petition gets 100,000
"signatures," our Instant Messages will still be avaliable at no extra
charge. If America Online does not recieve 100,000 "signatures," Instant
Messages will still be avaliable, but only to those who pay an extra 15.00
dollars a month. If you do not care about not getting any future Instant
Messages, please send this for the sake of those who want to keep thier
Instant Messages free of charge. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Robert McDoggan
America Online
Assistance Director >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | JPI vs. Matronics |
Dear fellow aviators,
Received some sad words from Matt that JPI has taken their dispute to
the courts. Please check out . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/matronix.html
and help out if you can . . . Dee and I have "seeded"
this fund to the tune of $300. Matt is going to need
a lot more before this is over. First day's response
has been very good . . . it only takes a little bit
from everyone to make a BIG difference. $10 from each
of the lists members would go a long way.
We tried to embarass JPI into seeing the light, now it's
time to show them that the community of aviation consumers
will support its friends.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
"Kolb-List: Re: GPS" (Jul 18, 3:04pm)
| Subject: | READ THIS - Abuse of the "do not archive" Feature... |
To All Listers:
Between the period of July 12 through July 19, 1999 there have been
roughly 1000 messages posted to the email Lists at Matronics, including
the RV-List, Kolb-List, Rocket-List, Zenith-List, and others. Of these 1000 or
so messages, 151 of them were marked with the "do not archive" tag indicating
that they shouldn't be (and weren't) appended to the respective List's archive
file. While I will be the first to agree that there is a lot of 'chatter'
on the Lists that shouldn't be archived, there are a lot of these non-archived
messages that contain valuable information and perspectives that would add
to the quality of the archive. I'm definitely not trying to single Merle
Hargis out with the example below, but it is a perfect example of a message
that should have gone into the archive.
I find the mis-use of the "do not archive" feature disturbing, and am
contemplating the disabling of it for the above mentioned reasons.
Through the financial support of the List members over the years, I have
been able to supply the List members with huge amounts of disk space and
extremely high performance computer systems making the search of the archives
incredibly fast and easy. The need to spare-the-archives is much less now
and mostly only a matter of keeping the useless stuff out.
Please use the "do not archive" feature only for obviously non-archive
type messages such as "Way to go, Bob!" or "When's OSH?".
I will be monitoring the usage patterns of the DNA feature over the next
few weeks to determine if it is being properly used.
Thank you for your support and participation,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Admin.
>--------------
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: GPS
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "merle hargis"
>
>I have a "Garmin GPS 45" it is made for boaters but it does a fine job for
>me.
>
>Merle Hargis
>(Twinstar) from Orlando
>do not archive
>----------
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill & Leslie Johnston"
>>
>> Any input from any Mark III Drivers would be
>> appreciated, also looking to purchase a GPS and would like to know what you
>> folks think might be the best for the money, I don't need anything fancy,
>> just something that is affordable and will take care of me navigation.
>
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antennas and Portland Seminar questions |
>Have been reading your comments on GlaStarNet with interest. I have a
couple
>of questions that perhaps you could help me with.
>
>1. I purchased and ACK ELT for installation in the GlaStar. In the
>installation instructions, it states that the antenna should be installed a
>minimum of 5 ft. from any com antenna.
>
>It does not state why, nor does it state the consequences if the above
>"should" is violated. The only two things I can think of is that if the ELT
>were activated, it could overload the rf into the com receiver.
>Alternatively, is it possible the com signal could overload the ELT
>transmitter, active or inactive? Do you have any knowledge of why the
>instruction is included?
Like software designers who believe their work is the most important
program on your computer and loads up your quick start icons with
a half dozen links to THEIR program, hardware designers constantly
dream about the ideal install of their equipment in your computer -OR-
airplane.
In the real world, there are few performance issues with respect to
antennas that ever get idealized on airplanes . . . especially the
lower frequency devices (VHF) . . . gee, when I got started in
electronics, 100 MHz was the edge of no-man's land . . . guys who
could make things work at 2-meters (144 MHz) were revered for
their technical accumen that was rumored to include special
blessings and perhaps a bit of black-magic.
Nowadays, we're all wishing that 50 year old VHF "junk"
would just go away. Transponders, GPS and Cell-phone
antennas (900 MHz and up) are about as close to ideal installs as
you can get in any vehicle. 100 MHz has become the new "low"
frequency service with its huge, bulky antenna and quirky idealized
requirments that are hard to achieve on anything smaller than
a DC-9 . . .
If your ELT were really, Really, REALLY close to the com
transmit antenna, there might be some risk of the com transmitter
popping somethign in the ELT but were talking inches of separation.
Given that the output stages of the ELT are another TRANSMITTER
designed to handle considerable power comparted to the sensitive
amplifiers in the front end of a RECEIVER, it's unlikely that
the ELT can be damaged by proximity coupled energy from another
light plane transmitter (airlines use 25 watt transmitters and
are potentially more dangerous to other on-board systems).
Bottom line is install things were they (1) fit, (2) look best
or (3) work best . . . according to most builders choices
(1) and (2) are handily accomodated by installing
all antennas inside the tailcone . . . keeps of the bugs, rain,
and make the airplane look really sharp. Given that you've probably
spent $K$ on your electro-goodies, it would be nice that they
also work . . . My best advice is to look over installations
other builders have been flying and if they're happy with the
way things work, your chances of a similar result are good.
>2. I am thinking (and dealing with time conflict) of attending your seminar
>in Portland (possibly another preson as well). What is the sign-up
deadline?
> Can we sign-up/pay at the seminar?
The Portland gig was postponed for lack of interest. We're in the
re-organization mode. Watch the seminar webpage. We'll also announce
new dates and places on the various lists.
To other list-servers . . . I've been out of town a lot over the
past month and have a couple of trips (weekend only) yet this
month . . . this is why I've been so quiet lately on the lists.
I've been able to teach my laptop how to dial using a calling card
so I was able to keep up with most e-mail while Dee and I were on
an extended trip earlier last month.
Right now, I'm sitting at a folding table in our new office
here at the house. No furniture in it yet but I do have the
copy machine installed. Spent most of the weekend installing all
the telephone and networking cables in the walls . . . carpenter
things are not my favorite pastimes! Got all the phone system
up and running about 1 a.m. this morning.
When all the office furniture is out of the shop, we'll be adding
about 200 square feet of new shelving and plan to greatly expand
our electro-goodies inventory. I've got a guy working on a new
website with a shopping cart catalog. The goal by the end of the
year is to become a truely one-stop-shopping source for all your
electrical system needs.
It's going to take several more days to get the office back together
so I may continue to be more "distant" than usual . . . but I'll
be back!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: PLEASE READ! - Email Weasel... |
>--------------
>RE: Test from Matronics - Please Ignore - Weasel #WSN01613
>
>This is totally unacceptable! I have requested several times that you
>remove my e-mail address from your Spam "Weasel" and obviously it is falling
>on deaf ears or eyes. We all get hit with SPAM but that does not make it
>acceptable for you to contribute to it also. You have obviously assigned me
>a serial number, PLEASE mark it for non-intrusive mode. I will notify you
>when I am changing or canceling my e-mail address. Although I don't
>contribute to the Kolb List very often, as a SlingShot builder I like to
>keep up with the group. I do not wish to cancel my subscription to the
>kolb-list, but please have understanding.
>
>Howard G. Penny
>Ericsson, Inc.
>(919) 472-7216
>penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se
>--------------
Howard,
I believe that you are substantially over-reacting to this situation. There
are nearly 3000 email addresses subscribed to the Email Lists hosted here at
Matronics with 200-300 email messages a day being forwarded to them. Because
many people do not unsubscribe from the email Lists when their address is no
longer valid, I receive megabytes worth of bounced email each day. Since I
have many other more important things to do with my life than pour over
thousands of bounced email messages trying to figure out just which List they
are subscribed to, I have written a number of automated tools to process this
excess of bounced email and automatically unsubscribe the bogus addresses.
These tools as a collection are called The Email Weasel and are divided into
two main tools - The Daily Weasel, and The Monthly Weasel. The Daily Weasel
looks through the 5 to 10mb of bounced email each day and makes a best-guess
at what the address was that caused the bounce and tries to automatically
remove the address. However, because many mailers on the Internet do not
conform to the "standard" email header layout, this process only affectively
catches about 70% of the bogus email addresses. There are cases where someone
has had their email forwarded from the email address that is subscribed to the
List and the second address is actually bouncing the email and often their
mailer gives no indication of what the original email address was. These and
other similar cases are handled by The Monthly Weasel and requires that a
single message be sent to each email address on all of the Lists with a unique
serial number so that the bounced email message's subscription to to respective
List can be asynchronously determined without the use of the header information
and therefore can removed from the Lists if necessary. The utility afforded by
the combination of these two tools has greatly reduced the amount of manual
labor involved in the day-to-day operation of these email Lists and more
importantly has substantially decreased the amount of time necessary to
redistribute any given message to each of the subscribers on a given List. One
polite automated Email Weasel message out of the 1000 to 2000 emails a month
seems like a very small price to pay for the continued efficient operation of
this service that is provided to you free of charge. Please remember that if
you feel that these policies are too intrusive for you, you may unsubscribe at
any time.
Respectfully,
Matt Dralle
Lists Admin.
Matronics
>--------------
>From: testmail(at)matronics.com [mailto:testmail(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 12:52 AM
>To: penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se
>Subject: Test from Matronics - Please Ignore - Weasel #WSN01613
>
>
>User Serial Number: WSN01613
>User Email Address: penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se
>
>This is a test message to determine the source of bogus email addresses.
>Please do *not* respond to this message as the test relies upon which email
>addresses bounce this message. Your email address could be inadvertently
>deleted from the List if you respond directly to this message.
>
>This test is being done to locate bad email addresses currently on one of
>the following email Lists sponsored by Matronics:
>
> RV-List, Kolb-List, Zenith-List, Yak-List, EZ-List, Lancair-List, or
>Glasair-List
>
>The results of this test aid in purging bad email addresses from the Lists
>and can increase the performance of the email list server substantially.
>
>Thank you for your patience and understanding.
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics
>dralle(at)matronics.com
>RV, Kolb, Zenith, Yak, EZ, Lancair, and Glasair List Administrator.
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over Voltage Question |
>I performed my first engine run in my RV-4 the other day,, and all went
>very well, except for a problem with excessive (excessive to me anyway)
>voltage. I have a standard, "Vans-issue 35amp alternator with a sealed,
>solid state voltage regulater,,, again, from Vans. I am using your crowbar
>OV protection module and I have a standard setup of a split-type master,
>with a field circuit protected with a 5amp breaker.
>
>The voltage ranged from 15.1 to as high as 15.8v. Now, I only ran it twice
>for five minutes per run so I didn't allow myself to much time for
>troubleshooting.
>I am fairly confident in the reliability of the voltmeter, curtesy of a
>VM1000 which shows a "normal" bus voltage of 12.3 with the engine not
>running. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe your OV module triggers at
>16v?? In any case, the field breaker did not trip but this still seems very
>odd to me as the regulator is pre-set at the factory at 13.8v,, or so I
>have been told.
A regulator can be confused into believing that the bus voltage
is too low and causing the system voltage to run too high. This
happens when there is excessive voltage drop between the alternator's
output terminals and the regulator. The problem is generally caused
You're correct that our OV modules are set for 16.0 to 16.5 volts
with 16.2 being the room temperaure nominal. The readings you were
getting are too low to cause the ovm to trip . . . but getting close.
Do you have a voltmeter with some long leads? There are a couple of
measurements that would be good to know:
While the engine is running and the VM1000 is reporting a high
bus voltage, what is:
(1) voltage at the regulator's input and ground terminals?
(2) voltage across the battery posts?
(3) voltage from alternator b-lead and alternator case?
If all these voltages are within a few hundred millivolts
of the VM1000 reading, then the regulator is bad. If the
regulator input voltage (1) is 13.8 and other voltages
high, then we need to diagnose some excessive wiring or
ground voltage drops.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Designing for Failure |
>Be aware that when you disconnect the battery from a vehicle or aircraft
>fitted with a alternator a sudden surge may occur. This can damage the
>alternator depending on the type of surge diodes fitted and can also in the
>case of motor vehicles damage electronic control units.
This rather generalized caveat has been floating around
in various forms for decades in transportation industries
where vehicles use battery/alternator DC power systems.
Many folk have interpreted it to have applicability under
all conditions, even when the engine is not running.
Others have enlarged the meaning to include the attachment
or disconnection of jumper cables between the vehicle's
power supply and that of another vehicle or exernal power
source.
I'd guess that the basis for the statement comes from what
we learned about alternator behavior when they first replaced
generators on airplanes back in the early 60's. While
a generator would willingly start up and provide stable,
useful power even when there was no battery on line, the
new fangled alternator would not. Depending on design
of the alternator/regulator combination, power supplied
by an alternator sans battery could be anything from
barely satisfactory to wildly hazardous to the health
of electro-goodies on the airplane.
This lays foundation for the birth of the split rocker,
battery master switch that found its way onto most of
the single engine airplanes flying today. The idea of
the split rocker was to prevent leaving an alternator
on line unless the battery was also on line. However,
it did allow leaving the alternator OFF until after
engine start and for battery-only ground ops. Of course,
it also allowed turning off the alternator in flight.
This last fact raised a new issue. 60 amp alternators
were standard equipment on most Cessnas . . . even the
lowly Day/VFR training ships like the C-150. As the
battery slid off toward oblivion, it's ability to
stabilize an alternator degraded too . . . especially
when the machine was a 60-amp, fire-breathing dragon.
Some folks experimenting with the alternator switch
in flight found that re-energizing the alternator at
cruise RPM, low system loads and a soggy battery produced
surge transients of wallet vacuuming proportions. Hence
the placard you see on many single engine certified
ships saying "DO NOT TURN ALTERNATOR OFF IN FLIGHT
EXCPET IN AN EMERGENCY".
Again, we find the certified side of the house "fixing"
a design problem with increased training and pilot workload.
It also shifts the blame for subsequent mishaps off onto
the pilot when the happless chap fails to observe the
placard. In conversations with a number of TC aircraft
owners, I've suggested that they superglue the halves
of their split rocker switches together if their airplane
has a pullable field breaker. This prevents inadvertent
operation of only the alternator side of the rocker switch
but still allows battery only ground ops and/or disabling
the alternator in flight should the situation warrant it.
Our recommended wiring diagrams for amateur built aircraft
show single operator, two pole switches for the DC power
master switch and a pullable breaker for the alternator
feeding the alternator field. Alternator and battery
come ON and OFF together.
Getting back to the original statement, we need to understand
also that as long as there is a battery of reasonably
good condition on the line (even if it's presently
discharged), there is no risk from adding or disconnecing
an external battery with or without the alternator on line
and/or engine running.
The risks associated with external power connection are
from inadvertent reversal of polarity and/or connection
of 28v ground power to a 14v airplane (unlike connectors
on the wall of your house for 120 versus 240 volts,
ground power connectors on airplanes are not mechanically
different for 14 versus 28v). The last risk associated
with ground power shows up on some TC aircraft where
the pilot has no control from his seat over the application
or removal of ground power from his aircraft's system.
All three of these gotchas have been addressed in the
recommended wiring we show for ground power jacks as
published on our website.
Bottom line is that there are valid reasons for people
to hand down these little bits of hangar wisdom. However
without an understanding of the physics and circumstances
behind the statement, it becomes more folklore than fact.
Educated pilots are much less likely to have a bad day -
in the air or on the ground. Education by sound byte
or excerpt can be worse than none at all. The politicians
and news anchors prove it every day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THEZING3(at)AOl.com |
| Subject: | Re: using saw blades to cut layups |
Hi all, I have found that cutting foam and fiberglass (bulkheads etc etc) may
be best accomplished by using specific saw blade. The blade is an AMANA
nonferrous
high tooth count industrial blade. The blade has a heavy duty plate with
carbide tips
and has a 6 degree negative hook on the tooth. This works great after you do
the lay-ups and want to cut the bulkheads to exact size....REMEMBER !!!!!!!!!
wear you safety glasses.
Regards,
Stan Z
THEZING3(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Cables & Ground Straps |
>--> RV-List message posted by: pcondon(at)csc.com
>
>
>I crimped my battery cables with a bottle jack ( or sissor jack ) , a sorta
>sharp-angled piece of STEEL angle iron ( bed frame angle iron ) & #2 copper
>lugs. I simply positioned the cable--stripped- into the copper lug, shimmed
>under my car, found a stout frame member and placed the cable/copper lug
between
>the angle iron and the frame member of the car and jacked up to squash-- I
mean
>crimp- the assembly together. Took 5 minutes & cost nothing. I did this
for a
>friend a few weeks later but walked up the street & crawled under a truck to
>jack-crimp the cable(the truck was much heaver & produced a perfect crimp).
>Don't over jack to distort the copper lug.............happy crimping
It's also very easy to solder large terminals
onto fat wires . . .
see: http://www.aereoelectric.com/articles.html and page
down to "Big Connections" . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "full field test" |
>I am hav.ing trouble with my alternator, and I have heard of a 'full field
>Test'. Can you tell me what this test is or where I can find a description
>Of it?
Yes sir!
The "full field" test is a VERY useful tool
in diagnosing charger system difficulties but
it must be done with caution. Of course, it
applies only to alternators with external
regulators. It's also not applicable to alternators
with permanent magnet fields (like Rotax and
B&C SD-8 alternators).
Fabricate a jumper harness from a toggle switch
(or even a push button if it's good for 5 amps
or so) and two lengths of 20AWG wire long enough
to reach from pilot's seat and the rear of your
alternator.
Disconnect the small wire from the alternator's
field terminal and attach one of wires of your
test harness. Attach the other wire to the alternator's
output terminal or b-lead.
Start with the test switch OFF or open. Start your
engine. Monitor bus voltage with a good voltmeter
and it's also really nice if your airplane is
equipped with an alternator loadmeter (alternator
output amps).
Start the engine. Bus voltage should be equal to
battery voltage . . . something around 12.5 volts
or below. Turn on landing lights and pitot heat
if you have them. Turn all radios OFF.
Operate engine at minimum RPM and close your
test switch while watching bus voltage. If it
rises above 14 volts, shut the switch off and
go to plan-B. The only time this will happen
is if your idle speed is pretty high and your
alternator pulley ratio is pretty fast also.
Most likely, you will not see any increase
in bus voltage.
Now, carefully increase RPM until bus voltage
reads 14 volts. Now turn everything ON that
you can load the bus with except radios. Increase
RPM's again to get 14 volts. If you can get
14 volts at any RPM below cruise values, then
your alternator is probably okay.
Pull the throttle back to idle, turn your test
switch OFF, turn off all electro-goodies in
your airplane and then shut things down.
Another, less tricky test uses an el-cheapo
automotive voltage regulator (generic Ford
aftermarket is a good one . . . they can
be had for about $20 or less). Rig test
leads on test regulator as follows:
B-lead input wire goes to pins "A" and "S"
on regulator. A ground lead goes to the regulator
case. A field ouput wire goes to the regulator's
"F" lead. Leave the "I" lead un-connected.
Again, remove the existing field lead from the
rear of your alternator. Make a temporary
installation of the test regulator by attaching
"A/S" wire to the alternator's b-lead terminal.
Attach "F" wire to alternator field. Attach
ground wire to alternator case. Start engine
and watch bus voltage.
If the alternator is okay, the system will come
up to 14 volts and carry all system loads at
some RPM below cruise. If the alternator is
bad, then you're not going to get enough output
to bring the bus up to 14 volts . . . maybe
no output at all.
The snap-in test regulator is an excellent
test tool to isolate regulator/wiring
problems from alternator problems.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [c-a] Com/Vor Antena |
>>> The COMM antenna must be vertical, while the NAV antenna must be
>>> horizontal.
>
>> Interesting! So what do we do if we want to connect one of the new
handheld
>> navcomms to an external antenna to use as an emergency backup for BOTH
navigating
>> and communicating? The new Yaesu has only one antenna connection.
>
>
>The proper solution is two antennas and a switch.
>
>However, if you're determined to do it with one antenna and are willing to
>settle for some loss of signal strength on both NAV and COMM, you could mount
>a single antenna on a 45 angle. This is effectively what you get if you
mount
>one element of the antenna on a vertical surface and one element on a
>horizontal surface as John Rippengal suggests. With this setup, you'd
probably
>pick up NAV signals fore and aft, but have increasing difficulty as they
>approached 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock.
>
>I'd recommend separate antennas if at all possible.
While it is true that a vertical comm and horizontal
VOR antenna represent optimum performance, you would
he hard pressed to "see" it without test equipment.
The hand-held VOR/Comm transceivers will work quite
satisfactorily on the Comm antenna. Given the limited
power output of your hand held comm transmitter and
the VERY HEALTHY vor signal strength at cruise altitudes,
I'd give weight to the communications performance and
use the Comm antenna on your hand held.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery location |
>Is there any reason that you would want to put the battery in the rear of
>the other than getting it away from the heat up front,will it effect
>balance that much, or is it just personal preference.
The battery is about the only accessory
with any weight that is also endowed with optional
locations for installation. If your configuration
is very close to one that's already flying such that
weight and balance issues are not in question, then
duplicating the system that's flying presents you
with no new problems.
Some of my builders are doing automotive and/or
otherwise untried engine configurations and I advise
them to PLAN for battery installations both for
and aft but wait until they're sure what the weight
an balance looks like before deciding. I know several
folk who reinstalled their battery after the first
trip to the scales.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | New Email Lists Added to the Matronics Server!! |
Dear Listers,
In the spirit of the existing and extremely popular Internet Email Lists
currently hosted at Matronics such at the RV-List, Zenith-List, and Kolb-List,
I have just added a number of new Lists and cordially invite everyone to have a
look at the long list of Forums now available. Email Discussion Lists now
include the following categories:
aerobatic-list
aviation-list
beech-list
cessna-list
ez-list
glasair-list
homebuilt-list
kolb-list
lancair-list
piper-list
rocket-list
rv-list
sailplane-list
seaplane-list
ultralight-list
warbird-list
yak-list
zenith-list
These Lists all include both a real-time distribution as well as a daily
"digest" version. All Lists also include archive files that can be searched
using the custom designed high speed web search engine. The archives may also
be viewed directly using the custom browsing interface.
All of these services are brought to you Free of Charge compliments of
Matronics, although voluntary contributions are always graciously accepted
using a Secure Web Contribution Web Page.
I encourage you to surf over and have a look at the Email List Web sites
and subscribe to as many of the available Lists as you wish. There is an
extremely handy and easy to use web page now for subscribing and unsubscribing
to your favorite Forums. Here are a couple of URLs to check out:
http://www.matronics.com/other.html Main Email List Web Site
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe List Subscription Form
http://www.matronics.com/contribution Secure Contribution Site
I look forward to seeing you on the Lists and to our future discussions. If
you've ever been subscribed to the RV-List or any of the other Lists at
Matronics, you already know the quality and "family" atmosphere that is
typified by these Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inst. lamp dimmers |
>I built the dimmer you designed, mentioned in the RV-List, some time ago.
>It worked! I played around with an idea I had that would make the
>instrument light level vary with ambient light intensity. By using a
>photoresitor (RS part), I got the light to dim when the ambient light was
>high, ie, daylight. This was the opposite of what I was looking for, so I
>wired a 2N2222 transistor across the pot, controlled by the photoresistor.
>This worked fairly well, dimming the instrument light as the ambient light
>decreased. The pot still operated to trim the light level. I suppose with
>more tinkering, I could install a trim pot to vary the response rate of the
>photoresitor.
Good for you! Autodimming has been with us for awhile. The
Cessna 400 series radios and some of the earlier autopilots
produced some of industry's first whacks at the problem.
I think it was fairly successful . . . you will probably have
to tinker with the resistors associated with the photoresistor
to set min-max ratios . . . but you can do this on the bench
using a wall-dimmer on an overhead bulb to simulate approaching
darkness.
Turn down ambient lighting down all the way and let your eyes
dark adapt for about 5 min . . . bring lighting up until you
can just read the panel with no additional lighting . . . this
is the light level where panel lighting wants to be "max" . . .
then dim room lighting to full dark and adjust the "min" to
the right level. . . . doing this on the bench (or in the
shop sitting in the cockpit) will get you in the ballpark
making it unlikely that further fiddling will be needed later.
>This is all just benchtop tinkering....It hasn't been installed in any
>cockpit, so the variables of cockpit brightness, photoresistor location,
>etc., would have to be worked out. I don't know if you could get ideal
>automatic instrument light dimming, but I'm forwarding you this as food for
>thought.
Of course radios have photo-resistors right on their
front panels . . . a bit of a pain in the whatsit since
your hand shades the photodetector when you reach for
controls . . . just when you most want to see what's going
on, the lights on the device dim down! Your notion of
finding a suitable photo detector location NOT on the
panel is a sound one.
Your efforts are a good example of ways amateur builders
can provide bells and whistles that spam can drivers
can only wish for. . . Let us know how it works out.
Better yet, write up an article and share the knowledge.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob,
>
>Fred Hulen here, off the net. I have purchased one of your manuals, so
>maybe you wouldn't mine answering a quick question for me.
My plesure sir . . .
>I am ready to mount a Comant CI-292-2 (BOTTOM MOUNT type, steeply swept
>back Com antenna) on my Zenith 601. I see in the archives that most 601
>builders mount their transponder antenna immediately behind the rear "Z" of
>the center wing section (I must assume you are not familiar with the 601,
>so the rear Z is the last structural member going from left to right at the
>very rear of the center wing section where it attaches to the rear
>fuselage.) Anyway... my questions is this: Due to limitations in ground
>clearance there is a limit as to how far I can mount the Com antenna toward
>the rear away from the transponder antenna, and, in trying to stiffen the
>mounting area for the com antenna near on of the "L" crossmembers, the
>forward base of the com antenna will be about 23" away from the transponder
>antenna. Is this OK? Otherwise I'll have to find a different location for
>the transponder antenna.
The risk for mounting them closer together is that the transponder
transmitter will put little buzzes into the comm receiver every time
it replies to a radar interrogation. I would suggest this:
Go ahead and mount the comm antenna further forward and see how
well it works. If the transponder's interferrence with the comm
receiver is small (meaning tollerable) or non-existant, then you're
off and running. The worst thing that happens is that you have to
find a new, more remote location for the transponder antenna later
which is no worse than you are considering right now.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main battery cable size |
>What size wire are people using for the main battery cable. I gotta
>get mine. Richard says his (#2) cable sometimes doesn't seem to
>"carry the load."
For airplanes where the battery is on or just behind
the firewall, 4AWG is fine for all the "fat" wires.
If the battery has to be further away, like on the
other end of the airplane from the engine, #2 is better.
I have dozens of Ez builders who have run 2 strands
of #2 full length of the airplane to crank an O-320.
4AWG is about .00025 ohms per foot. A 24 foot round
trip in an Ez is .006 ohms. A 200 amp cranking current
will drop 1.2 volts or about 12 to 15% of your total
cranking energy. 2AWG drops to .004 ohms total
for a voltage drop of 0.8 volts in the wire. Of
course each terminal joint and set of contactor
contacts will ADD to this resistance but our experience
has shown good performance for even the long circuits
just cited when 2AWG is used.
If someone is having difficulties with a 2AWG
wired starter, I strongly suspect a combination
of tired battery, high resistance joints or high
resistance contactors are the major contributors
to the problem. Some measurements with a
voltmeter while loading the system with an
automotive load-type battery tester will quickly
isolate the causes.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>other stranded. Their electrical performance seems to
>be the same, and their physical dimensions also seem
>equivalent but I was wondering if the RG400 might be
>more flexible and have a smaller bend radius. That
>might be an advantage when threading through the
>airframe, but it might have other disadvatages! Since
>both cables are fairly pricy, I don't want to buy the
>wrong cable!
>
>Thanks again for you helpful advice,
>
>Will Chorley
>
>PS. Do you sell the fiberglass isulation material for
>fuseable link construction, it doesn't seem to be listed
>on your Web pages?
Why use either of these cables? The good ol' RG-58
has been used with great success for about a half
century. The reason the BIG guys (al la 747, DC-10
etc) use this kind of cable is that their coax runs
can be quite long . . sometimes. In a single engine
a/c the longest run is generally to a VOR antenna
on tail (perhaps 20'). Losses in RG-58 at 110 MHz
are about 1.2 dB per 100' (3db is loss of 1/2
the power). A 10' chunk of RG-58 looses .12 dB
and a 20' chunk is .24 dB . . . not worth
worrying about.
Transponders at 1000 mHz will loose 18-22 dB
per 100 feet or 2.2 dB for 10' and 1.1 dB for
5 foot. Here, it's obviously more critical but
even when you go to a twice diameter, lower
loss coax like RG-8 or RG-214, the looses only
go down by about half.
The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still
small diameter cables and have losses comparable
to RG-58. They ARE made from Teflons, et. als.
which increases their resistance to temperature
effects but give the very long history of RG-58
and RG-8 in airplanes, I'd suggest that the time
and effort to upgrade your small airplane's coax
cables isn't going to produce any perceivable
value in return.
Another thing to consider for bigger cables are
connectors. The larger (.35 to .4" diameter) cables
take special connectors. I've seen a number of
installations where a builder used straight
coax connectors on his fat coax than added
right angle adapters at each end for installation.
The losses in the adapters may have increased
his total system losses by as much as he saved
by not using smaller RG-58 with the proper
right angle connectors.
Bottom line is that much is said and recommended
with respect to "modernizing" one's anteanna
feedlines in amateur built airplanes. My recommendation
is to save the time and dollars for things that
will make a difference.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator/Battery issues . . . |
>OK, A&P's and EE's, jump in here and correct my thinking. This could be the
>case if you were talking about a car, but I'm not 100% sure about alt's in
>aircraft. Automobile alt's have diodes in them, that when they go bad will
>allow a battery to completely discharge back through the alternator.
When the diodes in an alternator go "bad" they either open
(do nothing) or short (lots of smoke) . . . actually, you
have to fail a minimum of two of the six to eight diodes
in an alternator to effect the reverse feed of energy from
battery back into alternator and it will not be any whimpy
current flow . . . we're talking HUNDREDS of amps.
This is why your b-lead on the alternator has a circuit breaker
or fuse in it . . .
>. . . . . When
>this happens, depending on how long the battery as sat (or discharged), you
>may never get it to come back to life with just a battery charger.
First, alternator diode failure is a VERY rare event. This is one
of the reasons why I've recommended firewall mounted fuses in
the alternator b-lead for homebuilts . . . if the fuse is properly
sized to eliminate nuisance trips, then most likely it will
NEVER trip for the lifetime of the airplane.
> . . . To keep
>things simple, think of batteries as having a "memory". When they lose it,
>through complete discharge, they don't know which side is positive and which
>is negative (and can't be recharged until pos and neg are established). One
>way to overcome this (sometimes) is by simply hooking another battery to the
>dead one, to reestablish neg and pos sides. Once this is done, the battery
>"may" be able to be fully charged with a charger. Alternators can also be
>checked to see if the diodes are bad. Again, whether or not this applies to
>aircraft type or not...I don't know.
The MEMORY effect alluded to was first improperly applied to liquid
Ni-Cads used mostly in BIG airplanes. I could cite about a half
dozen articles that appeared in various electronics journals over
the past 15 years debunking the memory theory but suffice it to say
here that "memory" doesn't happen in other batteries . . . and
especially in lead acid ones.
Lead acid batteries have a shelf life . . . meaning that once a battery
has acquired a certain age, it's capacity has degraded to a non-useful
level. The RATE at which a battery degrades to useless is a function
of state of charge and where in the life cycle the battery presently
resides. For example, a 3 year old battery that's down to
40% of capacity already may loose half of that by sitting in
a totally dischaged for a week and become NON-recoverable. While
a brand new battery can take that 20% whack and still appear to have
"recovered" . . . .
It's true that a totally discharged battery can be charged up reversed
with some apparent capacity of a reverse polarity but it doesn't
take another battery to properly "polarize" a totally discharged
battery . . . just hook your charger to it in the normal manner
and say a few kind words over it, . . and hope you get back some
utility for having done so.
If you have bad diodes in an alternator that are at risk of
discharging the battery, you're going to know it in a hurry.
If you have open diodes, you may NOT know it. I bought a used
car a few years back with a crippled alternator. The car seemed
to have a pretty noisy bus and I filtered the +14V lead going
into my ham rig to control the noise. It wasn't until I got
the a/c fixed and had the blower running on HI along with
headlights at night that I discovered the alternator's output
was insufficient to keep the battery charged. I must have driven
the car six months or more with a funky alternator.
If you have a 60 amp alternator and fly only day/vfr, you might
fly for years with a half dead alternator and not know it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coax Cable for transponders |
>>>Can you tell me the difference between RG142 and RG400
>>>cable except that one has solid center conductor and the
>>>other stranded.
>>
>>bn: Why use either of these cables?
>
>Well, for one reason, the Bendix/King KLX-135A Installation Manual
>specifies that if the length of the coax is to be longer than 9 feet (as I
>recall), RG-142 or RG-400 is to be used.
>
>
>bn: The modern RG cables like 400 and 142 are still
>bn: small diameter cables and have losses comparable
>bn: to RG-58.
>
>NOT TRUE.
>RG58 has a nominal attenuation of 20db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
>RG142 has a nominal attenuation of 13db per 100 feet at 1GHz.
bn:
I stand corrected . . . but for a run of say 15' (very
long in a single engine airplane) we're talking
3db for RG58 versus 2db for RG142 . . . which is
still trivial. I encourage my readers to put the xponder
antenna as close to the instrument panel as they can.
Given that very few antennas are on the belly of any
airplane, a coax length of 5-6 feet is possible for
most airplanes . . . a GOOD thing to shoot for irrespective
of the kind of coax you use. Losses in this length
of coax are insignificant.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Two MORE Email Lists at Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
At the request of a couple of members, I have added two more Email Lists to
the Servers here at Matronics. These include:
avionics-list(at)matronics.com
Aircraft Avionics related topics such as Radios, GPSs, VSIs, DMEs, etc.
engines-list(at)matronics.com
Aircraft Engine related topics such as Lycomings, Auto conversions, etc.
As usual, the new lists have full archive searching and browsing capabilities.
You may subscribe to the new lists by using the Web-Based subscription form
at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Thanks for the helpful advice. . . . . . Maybe
>you might expand on your explanation and suggest or remind those
>interested that a stranded center conductor coaxial cable is the best way
>to go in a mobile installation.
Excellent point. About 33 years ago we had a rash of
VOR antenna system failures in the Cessna singles.
Seems the coax cable from panel to antenna back on the
vertical fin became shorted.
It took some digging to figure out why. The coax had
been routed through an area of structure where the
bend radius was too tight. Over time, the pressure
of a single strand conductor on the plastic caused
the wire to cold-flow through the insulation and short
out on the outer conductor! Replacment of the coax with
stranded center conductor -AND- rerouting for a larger
bend radius prevented this from happening again . . .
Further, a stranded conductor is more resistant to
breakage from flexing and is preferable for that
reason also.
Thanks for the reminder!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I have a Narco Transponder on my Europa, connected to its aerial on a
>ground plane about 6 foot away. Although my VHF radio (Garmin GNC 250) is
>fed from a separate bus, with widely separated aerial cables, I get
>intermittent interference when the Narco responds to a radar - just a short
>buzz as the identification lamp lights on the Transponder.
>Any ideas on what I can do to suppress the interference?
A very common problem . . . especially with "plastic"
airplanes. Your transponder puts out a stream of
very narrow, high power pulses that carry the digitally
encoded data for your squawk, altitude, etc. Common
propogation modes for the transponder to interfere
with other radios are coupling between antenna feedlines
(not case here because you've separated them), direct
radiation of transponder energy into the antenna of
the victim radio and radiation of transponder energy
into wiring associated with victim radio.
Try turning down the volume on your VHF comm and see if
the transponder noise is still there (of course you
have to do this while the transponder is being iterrogated
by a ground radar). If the noise goes away, then it's
most likely getting into the comm receiver's antenna.
Moving either or both of the antennas to increase
separation may do the trick.
If the noise does NOT go away, then it's getting into
the wiring. You can try ferrite filter "beads" on wire
bundle going into back of comm receiver, also shielding
may help. If push comes to shove, a filter assembly
consisting of inductors and capacitors on each pin of
the wiring to the comm receiver may be necessary.
Metal airplanes dont have the latter problem very
often due to the isolating effect of the aircraft's
skin . . .
Wish there was a "magic bullet" but what you're experiencing
can be one of the hardest problems to fix.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Systems was: Main battery cable size |
>The point here is that ALL of the metal in the airplane should be at the
>same potential. This includes wings, tail surfaces, ailerons, flaps, just
>whatever is made out of metal.
>
>There is a current AD note on the Beech King Air series to install ground
>straps on the rudder of the airplane. The reason for this is that static
>electricity would build up charges on the rudder and then discharge to the
>fuselage. In the process of doing this the hinges would become eroded.
>
>Now our little GStars are not in the same speed range, and will not be
>flying through the same kinds of weather, but the point here is that you do
>not want different parts of the airplane to be at different potentials.
>
>What Bob suggested earlier is a fine way to go about doing that, but I
>suspect it is a bit of overkill. In our case we have a bonding strap that
>runs from the engine to the cage to the wings to the vertical tail and to
>the horizontal tail. To accomplish this a #2 copper wire runs from one of
>the starter mounting bolts to the lower left side engine to cage mounting
>bolt. The negative pole of the battery is grounded to the cage using a #2
>copper wire to the bolt that secures the cage to the shell underneath the
>baggage compartment floor. Short pieces of braided strap ground the wings
>to the cage and one long strap runs from the bolt under the baggage
>compartment floor to the tail section of the airplane.
Were talking about two different issues here. The "bond-everything-
to-everything-else mania swept through the Ez crowd about 10 years
ago. These efforts are to elminate and/or reduce noises in radios
due to static build up on surface of aircraft that causes tiny
currents to flow in not-so-well connnected joints like control
surface hinges. I've yet to see any confirmed case where this
was useful on a homebuilt and I doubt that it's going to show up
on anything less than a Lancair or Glasair in the 200 kts range.
The DC POWER DISTRIBUTION ground system is another thing all together.
Here, we're trying to (1) reduce the resistance in the starter
cranking pathways to the lowest practical value, (2) avoid running
battery currents through structure . . . especially welded steel
where unwanted magnetization can take place, and (3) avoid the
fabrication of ground loops where alternator and/or battery
currents flowing in airframe can induce noises in other systems
not well thought out with respect to installation and grounding.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)AOl.com |
| Subject: | VM1000 and EC100 |
Hello Listers,
A few months ago I announced that Team Rocket had an OEM for VM1000 units and
the EC100 warning and cautionary system through Vision Microsystems. We were
offering these units at our OEM prices for a limited quantity. We have since
sold many of these units and many listers have taken advantage of this great
opportunity. Well, we have just a few VM1000s and EC100s left at our OEM
price. When they are gone, the price will go up. We will still offer them at
great prices, but not our OEM price.
Now, the last time that I announced opportunities to save a few hundred
bucks, it was not received well. This system may not be for everyone. I
personally think that it is one of the finer systems on the market and have
purchased one for my Rocket. So, if you are interested, call me at
561-748-2429. If you are not interested...hit the delete key. This deal is
just for those who love aviation and like great prices.
Scott
Team Rocket, Inc.
See our catalog at www.matronics.com/rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>> I think the only place that wire size is an issue is the high amp
>> portion of the system & then only because the large wire gets
>> stiff & hard to route. This applies to systems with batteries in
>> the fuselage, etc. On the other hand, all new airplanes are going
>> to 28v systems, as far as I can tell.
Most of all "new" airplanes have been 28v for decades, the
type certificiated ones that is. The trend was started
when Cessna observed that buying one kind of thing in one
voltage version only was less expensive than buying the
same thing in two versions. Even the lowly C-150 went to
28v. It had almost nothing to do with weight since all of
the 28v hardware with the exception of wire was the same weight
as the 14v stuff. It was 95% driven by purchasing economics.
Many of my readers building big Glasairs and Lancairs would
LIKE to go 14V but their engine came with EXPENSIVE 28V
alternators and starters installed. EVERY voltage sensitive
part they have to purchase is uniquely "aircraft" which
will never be priced according to consumer driven economics
nor will they experience the product improvements we enjoy
in an unregulated, free market atmosphere . . .
>> . . . . This will surely affect the
>> future availability of avionics for replacements & etc. Remember,
>> the avionics manufacturers can pack more "stuff" on 28v boards than
>> they can 14v boards & can create smaller packages for transmitters.
The differences in electro-goodies between voltages is trivial
to none. The major drivers of volume and weight have to do more
with packaging and human interface aspects. A transmitter, for
example, can be quite tiny except for the need to get heat out
of it. While a 28v transmitter may be a couple of percent
more efficient than its 14v cousin, it's by only a very few
percent . . . given that the output stages have similar
efficiencies and output power, their size doesn't materially
change with voltage. BTW, most small signal stuff in avionics
needs to run a voltages much below 14v . . . this is good and
bad . . . it allows for power conditioning to take all the noises
and perturbations off DC power before it's applied to sensitive
electronics . . . it also drives up parts count and volume
of the system without much effect on its overall efficiency.
>> The only items from the auto industry are the alternator & the
>> battery & perhaps some lights.
. . . . and relays, electronic controlled fuel injection
systems, ignition systems, fuel pumps, blowers and fans,
contactors, and most important LOW COST SEALED GAS RECOMBINANT
LEAD ACID BATTERIES.
. . . . .The voltage regulator is now mostly
>> in the alternator. 28v alternators & batteries cost about twice as
>> much. Even the emergency starting issue is perhaps not such a big
>> deal as batteries can be hooked in series, even while in autos.
>> This would require two autos, however. This is all about a dead
>> heat right now, it seems to me, but don't forget that it is very
>> easy to step down voltage for lights & etc.,
. . . not really. It's the same problem for lights as it is for
radios . . . power conditioning of some type between the
bus and the working parts of the product. More parts count
and less efficiency. Your nav lights are the most energy
consuming system on the airplane . . . while a starter takes
a lot of POWER for 5 seconds (200A X 11V X 5S = 11K watt-seconds)
the nav lights are 6A X 14V X 7200S = 604K watt-seconds for
a two hour flight). Having a 30% efficient starter isn't nearly
as bad as having an 80% efficient lighting system when you
start tallying up the ENERGY budget required to utilize each
system.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | LIVING aircraft batteries . . . (was 14 vs. 28v) |
>Twice in the last 20 years I have been stuck with a
>dead battery. The first time happened at a middle-of-nowhere . . .
> . . . .Because I was in airplanes with 14 volt systems,
>their vehicles were able to provide jump starts which got me
>home . . . A 28 volt airplane has far fewer rescue options.
May I suggest that over half of all s.e. airplanes
flying today departed with a FAILED battery? We
tend to treat batteries in our airplanes like
batteries in our cars . . . it gets replaced when
it fails to crank the engine for perhaps the
4th or 5th time?
This means that the battery has been useless as
a source of backup energy for perhaps years before it
finally gets replaced. RG batteries are going to
make this situation worse, they maintain a lower
internal resistance than their wet and gel cousins.
They'll still get an engine started even futher
down the slide toward the recycle bin.
Please learn and observe some peventative maintenance
techniques almost unheard of in certified aviation.
KNOW (by measurement) or BE SURE (by periodic
replacement) or DON'T CARE (with dual alternators)
that the battery is capable of getting you home in
the situations which you fly.
You can find a lot of mechanics out there that curse
batteries for their various faults but very few
that understand how to live with them.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RG-400 coax, crimp tools and other goodies . . . |
For those who are looking for the RG-400 coax cable, we'll have it
in stock Monday (9-20) at $1.75/ft
We will custom assemble RG-400 assemblies with BNC male
connectors for $4.00 per connector additional.
We'll be stocking crimp on BNC connectors -and- tools to
install the connectors . . . the tools will be $40.00 each.
Connectors will be $10.00 for a bag of six.
For those who missed out on the refurbished machine pin crimp
tools for D-sub connectors last spring, we have located another
source for NEW, low cost tools. These will be $38.00 each and
will show up in our website catalog next week.
We have heatguns for installing heat shrink tubing at $23.00 ea.
We'll be posting wire marking kits which will include a pre-
printed sheet of adhesive backed numbers and an assortment
of CLEAR heatshrink . . . probably enough to do a complete
airframe. Haven't decided on the cost yet . . . somewhere
around $16.00.
A BIG expansion of our inventory and website catalog is in
the works. We're debugging new shopping cart software for
our website. After a contractor gets done with some basement
repairs which includes our shop area, we'll be putting up
about 400 square feet of shelving to hold LOTS of electro-
goodies.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> Someone was asking about simple GPS 's that are available. I have the
>cheep Magelland which sells for $99.00 dollars at walmart or Kmart. I have
>used it to fly my cessna all arround the northeast and find it to be the
>best of both worlds. It has no data base, but has 100 memories and is very
>easy to program and use. It has route capability, shows actual heading and
>speed. It will even display your time of arrival based on your speed. The
>best thing is it gives you a simple compass rose with a needle and you use
>it as if you were using a VOR. No buttons to play with while flying and
>you can be looking out windshield like you should be. It runs for 48 hrs
>on two AA batteries. Its been very reliable. NY
I wrote an article for Sport Aviation several years back
about the little boater/hiker hand-helds. I've had several
of the Magellan handhelds, the GPS2000 is still my favorite
but they all work fine. Haven't even turned a VOR receiver
ON in over two years. Once you've gone cross country direct
to hit a waypoint 1 mile off the approach end of the runway
with a $100 radio, it's hard to go back! There's a copy
of the article available at:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/nailgun.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Buss bar calculations . . . |
>> > Yesterday, I sat down to figure out if my busses were adequate.
Current
>> >plan is to use 1/2" strips of .031" silver. The busses are little and
>> >short, so I was mostly worried about temperature rise, less about voltage
>> >drop.
Temperature rise and voltage drop go hand-in-hand . . . loss
of energy due to voltage drop converts directly to heat. However,
thin strips of bare metal have the BETTER heat rejection than
insulated wires of the same cross section. Further, because
the strip is bolted to the terminal posts of circuit breakers
every inch or so, you can probably get by with a very thin
foil . . . buss bars tend to be thick for the purpose of making
them mechanically favorable to work with.
>> Silver? Talk about overkill! Trust me, it isn't an issue.
>>
>*** Yeah, well, I was going to make them of copper ( "Gee", said my IA, "all
>the busses in my Bonanza are copper" ) but the FSDO inspector wanted me to
>put in inspection requirements for the copper. Something like
>
> "Inspect for corrosion at annual. If corrosion is found, remove bus and
>burnish it off. Use Swiglet special tool PAQ-FIBS-1 for burnishing. Bus is
>adequately burnished when it looks like new copper. Replace bus if, after
>burnishing, it is less than 0.XX inches thick or less than 0.XX inches
>wide."
This statement probably grew out of a paragraph in AC43-13 wherein
a suggestion is made for "periodic cleaning of buss bars for
corrosion" or something like that. EAA asked me to comment
on the rewrite of AC43-13 about two years ago, I pointed out that
properly assembled hardware attaching bus bars to breakers uses
multi-tooth lockwashers or at the least, properly torqued fasteners
that create GAS TIGHT joints. If properly assembled, very corroded
bus bars can have perfectly good electrical properties because the
place where breakers and screws hit the bar are SEALED from
environmental effects. Most copper production bus bars are
tin or solder plated to retard corrosion of bare copper surfaces.
However, when clean hardware is assembled with internal tooth
lockwashers under properly torqued fasteners, that joint is
good for a lot more years than you're going to own the airplane.
The science of crimping terminals to wires calls on the same
conditions for getting two pieces of metal into intimate contact
with each other.
None-the-less, after EAA comments were forwarded to
the FAA, -and- the document went back to the techwriters
for another two years worth of work, AC43-13 is still loaded
with poorly crafted suggestions and requirements that receive
further bastardization when invoked by ignorant people with
power.
> ...Since I used silver, I was able to say something more like
>
>"Since busses are solid silver, they should remain free of electrically
>significant corrosion for the life of the airplane".
Silver is about as reactive to atmospheric stresses as copper.
Why would we need "silver polish" for the family heirlooms
were it not so? However, assembled with proper hardware and
techniques, a silver bus bar will perform no better or worse
than its copper brothers.
>...I had the silver sheet just lying around, anyway. My dad was an amateur
>jeweler, and when he died, I got all his stuff. That silver has been in the
>closet for 15 years. I'd kept it because I thought it might come in handy
>for RF projects.
I've got a couple of silver bars that I bought about 20 years
ago to silver-plate the inside surfaces of VHF antenna duplexer
cavities I was building out of copper clad etched circuit board
material . . . here's where a few molecules of silver laid
on top of the copper was really worth the effort. Don't anyone
run out looking for silver strip to "update" your airplane's
bus bars . . . anyone who suggests it's either necessary or
useful simply doesn't understand the physics involved.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Douglas <ddouglas(at)coastside.net> |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pump Info |
Hey Builders!
I have some information about the Facet fuel pumps used to transfer fuel
in our airplanes. To support the Pillar Point Avionics "Smart Switch"
Fuel Pump Controller, we have tested threee different models of Facet
pump: the 40171, the 40105, and the 40106. The differences fall into
two distinct categories that relate to pump-off forward and reverse
leakage flows.
Physically, the 40105 and 40
The Facet 40171 pump is the type sold by Stoddard-Hamilton Aircraft ,
Inc. (360-495-8533) to serve as a transfer pump for transferring fuel
from the auxiliary tanks to the main tanks. The 40171 costs about $54
each. The Facet 40105 and 40106 are sold by numerous suppliers,
including Aircraft Spruce and Specialties (800-824-1930 (west);
800-831-2949 (east)), Chief Aircraft (800-447-3408), Wicks
(800-221-9425) and others and typically used in the Zenith and other
aircraft for transferring fuel from an aux tank to a header tank. The
40105/6 pumps cost about $28 to $32 each.
Physically, the 40105 and 40106 are identical. Both Chief Aircraft and
Aircraft Spruce picture these pumps in their catalogs. The 40171 looks
slightly different than the 40105 / 40106 models in that the inlet and
outlet ends of the pump are about 1/4 inch longer than the 40105 / 40106
to accommodate the check and foot valves. (I haven't found any pictures
of the 40171.) Functionally, there is a world of difference between the
40171 and the 40105 / 40106.
All three model pumps have a "lift" capability and can draw fuel from
at least 3-feet. All three move the fuel at about 0.5 gal/min, or about
30 gal/h when they are operating.
In the "OFF" state, however, the differences between the pumps become
more obvious. At a 30-inch head pressure, the 40105 and 40106 pumps
have a forward "leak" rate or drain rate of about 15 gal/h. These pumps
thus flow freely in the forward direction at about one-hald the pumping
rate.... In the reverse direction, the 40105 and 40106 drain backwards
at between 0.05 ga/h to about 0.25 gal/hr, with a mean value over a
dozen tests with four different pumps of about 0.1 gal/h. (As a point
of reference, 0.1 gal/h is about one drop per second). Compare these
numbers to the 40171 pump, which showed no detectable leakage in the
"OFF" state in either the forward or reverse directions over several
hours.
The utilization implications are pretty clear: If your "from" tank is
higher that the "to" tank, you need the 40171 pump to prevent your
"from" fuel from draining into your "to" tank. If your "from" and "to"
tanks are at about the same level, you should still use the 40171 pump
to prevent an exchange of fuel. If your "from" tank is lower than your
"to" tank, you can use any of the pumps described, but if you use the
40105 or 40106, you should use a check valve on the outlet side of the
pump to present your "to" tank from draining back into your "from"
tank. Wicks lists a check valve at about $24, so cost-wise the 40171
may represent a better bargin because it has the checks built into
them....
Pillar Point Avionics offers fuel pump controllers for all of these
pumps. For the 40171 pump, PPAv provides the XFR-12-2-5F model
controller; for the 40105 and 40106 pumps, PPAv provides the
XFR-12-2-5G model controller. We developed the "G" model when we found
that the operating characteristics of the 40105 and 40106 were just
different enough from the 40171 to make control of those pumps with the
"F"-model Smart Switch less reliable than we wanted.
If you have a PPAv controller and are building a GlaStar or another
airplane that uses the 40171 pump(s), the original production "F" model
will be just fine. If you have the 40105 or 40106 pumps, you will need
the "G" model controller. If you need the "G" model controller and have
NOT been contacted by PPAv, then please contact me by email at
mailto:ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com or by fax (650-726-9567) or by telephone
(650-740-1516).
You can identify the model by looking at the mounting tab on the pump.
One side of the mounting slot will be stamped "40" and the other side
will be stamped "105", 106" or "171". If you have a different model
pump and want to use the PPAv Smart Switch Fuel Pump Controller to
reduce your aux fuel management workload, please contact us. You can
read about the PPAv Controller at
http://www.ppavionics.com
Dennis Douglas
Pillar Point Avionics, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Questions |
Hello.
I've traded junk for junk with a couple of home-builders and one of
the things I've picked up is an alternator of questionable parentage.
It is 0 TSOH from an alternator shop, automotive with no labels.
The guy told me that his partner got it with "aircraft diodes"
(whatever that means).
Not much . . .
It has a larger pulley on it from an AC generator. I took it to an
auto parts store shop and had it tested (good) and we determined
that it is a 60 amp model similar to what was used on early 70's
Fords (Mopar). It has connections for Field, Stator, and Bat.
This is a real pig compared to the Nipon-Dienso machines
B&C is selling.
Question 1: It tested out OK, but when I measure the resistance
from Field to Ground, I get a *very* low number, almost like a
short. Am I missing something? What keeps this from popping
the Field circuit breaker when you 1st turn on the master switch?
How low is low? Field resistance of a 14 volt alternator is
generally in the 3-4 ohm range. A digital multimeter might
read this low of a resistance accurately . . . very few
low cost analog meters will do it.
Question 2: In the auto diagram, the only thing they use the
Stator connection for is to run the electric choke (?!?).
Yes . . . it applies heat to the choke's bi-metal actuator
ONLY when the engine is running. If one simply hooked the
choke heater to the ignition switch, it would begin to heat
up even if the engine were not running.
I asked "Are you sure they don't mean choke as in filter?"
The guy seemed sure this was the carburetor electric choke.
Correct.
If so, does the Stator need to be connected to anything?
No . . .
Question 3: The fan is of course backwards.
Don't worry about it. It's a centrifugal fan and is
only slightly affected by direction that the vanes are
pointing . . . in fact, if you check out the blower
in your furnace, you'll find that the blades on the
blower point FORWARD with respect to rotation.
With the baffling in my cowling, both the front of the starter
and the alternator will be in the high pressure cool air and
the rear of each in the low pressure hot air. In normal
operation the fan would be trying to suck hot air against
the cowling pressure. Sense there is some cooling pressure
even when the plane is just taxiing and the cool air will
blow from front to rear, do I need a fan at all?
Yes. Leave the existing fan in place. You may want
to reduce pulley size so that you can get full output
at taxi RPMs . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)AOl.com |
| Subject: | High Temp securing and Insulating |
Hello Listers:
Last night I posted a message about Hi Temp Cable Ties for use in the engine
compartment. There was a very positive reaction to the new product and
several inquiries about other product. Thank you.
I've put up a new page featuring high temp securing and insulating (from
abrasion) product on one new page, Hi Temp Insulating and
Securing Page or it can be found at
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page61.html
Regards,
John @AAMR/AirCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: COZY: Re: Alternator Questions |
>Note that all (or nearly all) automotive and maybe aircraft
alternators on Lycomings (and maybe more) use a backward to normal
>rotation thread on the nut holding the fan and pulley on.
This means the pull of the belt will be in the direction to unscrew
>the nut. Use good locktite on the nut. Requires some heat and
>maybe a impact wrench to get off.
B&C uses Locktite #271 (red) on their alternator pulley
nuts and installs the nut with an impact wrench. In thousands
of installations, inadvertent nut loosening has never been
an issue.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-ez-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LIVING with aircraft batteries |
------------------
>>>A few years back I did some research into batteries for an underwater
>>>propulsion device and I learned that the number of cycles that you got
>>>out of a battery decreased with the percent discharge of the cycles. So
>>>I am wondering what the effect on battery life is when you discharge it
>>>to 5-10% of its capacity. Is that the only way to test the battery?
>>
------------------
bn: It's true that a battery's life is improved by limiting the
bn: depth to which you discharge it on each cycle.
------------------
>So, then, what is different about the construction of a "deep-cycle"
>battery, such as those marketed as such for use in golf carts?
------------------
Deep cycle batteries pack more chemistry into the plate
structure . . . generally limiting the number of plates
per volume and increased spacing between plates which
translates into higher internal resistance and poorer
performance at low temperatures.
I suspect that as the battery technology evolves, the
the gap between batteries optomized for deep cycle
work and cranking service may narrow. Most sealed
lead acid batteries sold are used in deep cycle
applications (camcorders, cellphones, power tools,
etc.) so I'm sure the industry is working hard to
keep this performance arena working well. In larger
batteries (10 a.h. and up) there is also a need for
good cranking performance. One company in particular
has gone the extra mile in optimizing cranking
performance in VERY small cells (1.2 a.h.).
See http://199.239.60.165/
These tiny cells combined with two alternators make
it now possible to remove the pigs found on most
aircraft engines for starters and alternators and
to forego the classic 24 a.h. battery in favor of
light weight alternators, starter, and itty-bitty
batteries for a DUAL electrical system who's TOTAL
weight is about equal to the original 24 a.h. battery!
The only sealed batteries I'm aware of specifcally
made for deep cycle service are true gel-cells offered
by Sonnenschein and Johnson Controls (the old Globe
line). I think B&C still offers a couple of gels
for customers that like them but for my money,
the RG battery is the only way to go for an airplane
were deep cycle performance isn't an issue.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use (of Nightsun lites) with an alternator power source |
I checked out this product on several websits . . . please don't
spend a lot of bux purchasing these things for adaptation to
airplanes.
The bulbs used in their fixtures are plain vanilla halogen
spot/flood devices not unlike the one you'll see at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg
These bulbs have built in reflectors and come in a wide
variety of wattages and beam spreads. The 12V rated lamps
are used by the thousands in product displays in stores
and are quite inexpensive. One might also consider using
a common automotive headlamp like the one I show at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg
This lamp is 55w, very compact, the right shape for leading
edge incorporation and a whold lot less expensive than the
Nightsun products.
The respondant's concerns about "regulation of the vehicle"
shows lack of knowledge of how things are supposed to work.
It's true that a bulb's life varies strongly with voltage.
For example, running a bulb a 95% of its rated value doubles
the life, 105% of rated value halves the life. HOWEVER,
given that these bulbs are designed for thousands of hours
service in high duty cycle service like storefronts should
mitigate the builder's concerns for service life . . . especially
since the 4509 lamp used in tens of thousands of certified
ships has a service life on the order of 10-20 hours!
Check out the light bulbs I've suggested above and do some
poking around on your own in the lighting sections of hardware
stores and automotive suppliers . . .
> FYI
> With regard to the recent post about the Nitesun biking lighting......I
>asked them if these type of lights could be used with an alternator as a
>power source. Their response is below.
>
>--------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: "Nightsun" <night-sun(at)mail.wman.com>
>To: Dana Hill
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 09:24:09 +0000
>Subject: Re: Use on a car?
>Message-ID: <199910101625.JAA07838(at)home.wman.com>
>
>Might work ok, but what wories me is the voltage regulation of the
>vehicle. Some alternators / voltage regulators but out upto 16 vdc,
>way too much for our bulbs. Upto about 14 will work, but the lamp
>life will be shortened, over 14 and the lamp life would be very
>short. Most airplanes are 28 volt.
> In any event we do not sell headlights without batteries.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Nightsun
>
>To: info@night-sun.com
>Subject: Use on a car?
>From: Dana Hill <dhill36(at)juno.com>
>
>Hi Night-Sun,
> I would like to know if your lighting system could be hardwired into
> a
>14 Volt DC charging system, such as a car/airplane? Would this sort
>of mod be difficult? Any info in this regard would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Dana Hill
>
>Customer Service, Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Pacific time
>626-799-5074
>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulky, unreadable files |
>Hi netters.
>
>I hate to be a whiner, but I got two files in the Vol 01, Number 509
>Glastarnet that flat filled up my bit bucket. I had to stop and empty it
>before the computer would work again. I could name names, but I won't. One
>was a WINMAIL.DAT file, and the other was MIME. Please, please look at what
>you are putting out to avoid this problem. I know, I know. I had trouble
>passing "Works and plays well with others" too.
>
>Bobbi & Ric Lasher
>#5648 BN954BR
>Cocoa, Fl.
I subscribe to about a dozen list-servers so it takes quite
a bit of time to download ordinary message traffic. If a couple
of folks attach a few hundred K-bytes of "information" it
really slows things down and increases the risk of problems
like Rich describes.
There is an EASY way to avoid this for most folks. If you have
a real internet access account with server hardrive space,
you can upload large files to your server and then give people
pointers on how to find them. For example, click on this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg
You need an FTP program and little instruction which your ISP
provider should be able to provide. You'll gain a new skill,
a new tool for effective communications and avoid forcing
our friends to download data which may be of no interest.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Broken link on landing light image . . |
Several people wrote to say they couldn't see the image
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg . . .
It's been fixed (unix/linux machines CARE if you
use upper case or lower case in file names! Sorry 'bout
that.
This lamp is quite compact . . . is a sealed assembly so that
the reflector stays clean and bright. It's also a modern haolgen
lamp that has a MUCH longer life than most landing lights offer
for aircraft. It's only about 2-1/2" tall which might
make it attractive for leading edge installations.
Several folk were concerned about heat . . . to be sure,
a 50 watt lamp puts out MOST of its energy in heat . . .
however a halogen lamp puts our a higher percentage of useful
energy (light) for total watts input compared to the
1940-1950's lamps on most certified ships.
Further, since we're talking in terms of 50-55 watt lamps,
the heat problem is less than HALF that posed by mounting
a 100 watt lamp from a Cessna.
The automotive lamp is pretty attractive from a heat
handling perspective because it sreads the forward radiated
heat over a larger surface area than a 50W round lamp
such as the EXH. In either case, dealing with the heat
output of these modern lamps shouldn't be a big deal.
Dee and I just got back from the SW Regional Flyin at
Abilene, TX (used to be in Kerrville). Gave two forums
and made plans for both forums and workshops next year.
Even picked up a nice tailwind for part of the return
trip . . . first time I've ever seen 145kts on the GPS
in the C172XP!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Comic book on coax connectors . . . |
There was some discussion a couple of weeks ago about "screw on"
connectors for coax antenna cable and some of us got our tongues
wrapped around our eyeteeth and couldn't see what we were saying.
I've just published some pictures of various BNC style connectors
with a link from the "what's new" box at our website. Interested
builders are invited to click on:
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Potential heating problems with suggested lamps . . . |
Been getting a lot of questions concerning the two lamps
I illustrated as possible candidates for landing lights
on airplanes. I thought I'd elaborate for the group's
benefits. To date, I'm not aware of anyone who has installed
the 4352 an airplane. I had a Kitfox or Avid builder builder
put a pair of the little spotlights in the underside of each
wing to provide peripheral vision clues during landing and
he reported this arrangement to be satisfactory to his
needs.
Folks are still asking about heat. A few minutes ago
I conducted a very subjective experiment. Went out in
the driveway and hooked a 4352 to my van battery with
the engine idling. Again, just pointing the thing
around the neighborhood, I reaffirmed my first impression
that ONE of these lamps would suffice to land an airplane.
After three minutes, the lamp was too hot to touch for
more than a few seconds near the rear of the housing
where the connector penetrates it and on the large top and
bottom flats.
The mounting rim was quite easy to hold in the fingers.
Holding one's hand out in front would produce a too
warm to stay there after 30 seconds or so. My impression
is that a piece of lexan over this bulb is in no danger
of overheating.
If one installed a 4352 in EACH wing and used a wig-wag
circuit for collision avoidance, the heat energy from
each bulb goes down by a factor of 2 'cause it's on
half the time. Total system power is the same as for
one lamp since only one bulb is on at a time. In the
final seconds before flare, you could run both bulbs
continuously for the actual landing.
This seems like a good way to (1) have dual bulbs
so that you'll always have one if the other burns
out, (2) very effective recognition lighting, (3)
110 watts of "landing" light on a energy budget nearly
equal to one 55 watt lamp, (4) buy new lamps at
K-mart for a fraction of the cost of clasical "aircraft
quality" landing lights.
If someone will dope out the mechanical details of
mouting these in their particular project and send
me drawings/pictures. I'll publish them on our website.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Any thoughts on how many watts it takes on average for a small plane to be
>able to light up the runway on approach and landing? I like Bob's idea of
>the 50w 4352s for the wings, a total of 100w. (Got to keep the math simple)
>What about a third light (100w?) in the nose for a total of 200w? Where are
>the best places to mount lights in the wing - out towards the tips or in
>closer? In my old C-130 days, we had a light that rotated down from the
>bottom of the wing to point forward. After landing, you flip the switch and
>to rotated back up into the wing. Could this be done on a Kitfox? Anyone
>with experience on what is the minimum amount of light needed to make it
>worthwhile in the first place please step forward.
>
I tried this experiment a few years back while we owned an
airport complete with J-3 Cub: I took an ordinary sportsman's
lantern (6v, 0.8a bulb for a grand total of 4.8 watts!) and
duct-taped it to the strut so that it pointed in the right
place for looking ahead in a wheel landing attitude. I can
tell you that this light was entirely adequate for performing
a series of touch-n-go's in the Cub long after the sun went
down. If I needed to build a minimum energy system (perhaps
wind generator powered?) for night landings in the Cub,
a pair of 5w fixtures on each wing would be quite useful
and doable.
Adequate lighting has very little to do with watts, it has
to do with what you can see. If you fly off of runways in the
bush and expect to crow-hop over an occasional deer or
possum on the runway, then a few kilowatts of police-
hellicopter klieg-lights may not be enough. If you need to
accomplish reliably controlled landings on a runway that
is already outlined in the little row of bulbs down each
side, then it can be a whole different story (the runway
lamps on our airport were 8 watt sewing machine bulbs!).
Piling on the watts and lumens may be satisfying in some
respects. I'll suggest that we're building the best airplanes
that have ever flown. Part of being "best" means optomizing
hardware to the task while considering temperature
rise, power consumption, installation ease, utility,
cost/performace ratio, etc. We who have roots deep in
the certified aircraft world bring a lot of baggage with
us when it comes to sorting out what's useful versus
what's found on the heavy-iron birds we learned in.
Right here in these forums is where we sort through the
pieces and parts to see what's really useful while
hopefully eliminating all things from the hard-to-do pile.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)islandnet.com> |
I would like to hear from any builder out there who has installed a Subaru
engine in an EZ. I have a Varieze, flown since 1979, which needs a new
engine. At the moment, I believe a Subaru EA-81 with a suitable reduction
drive would be the best solution, given the weight limitations of the
aircraft.
Thanks.
Garth Shearing
#8-216 Russell St., Victoria, B.C., V9A 3X2, Canada
Tel: (250)386-3980
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob, I recently bought a copy of the AeroElectric Connection and think
>it's a great resource...I have one question and I'm sure it's in the
>book somewhere (I just can't find it), but what is the difference
>between an Essential Bus and the other power distribution buses?
>
>Thanks for the primer!
>
You're welcome. I'm pleased that you find the work useful!
Not much . . . bus structures can be divided up for
a variety of reasons. The items powered from any particular
bus will have something in common. For example, a fuseblock
or row of breakers might be feed from the always hot side
of a battery contactor to supply needs of dome lights, clocks,
engine hour-meters, electronic ignition, . . . any item that
you want to have powered EVEN IF the rest of the electrical
system is shut down.
In the case of an ESSENTIAL bus, I encourage builders to
consider the electrical items most useful in getting to
intended destination. These must certainly include minimal
lighting, primary nav radio, turn coordinator, a voltmeter
and perhaps engine boost pump. The goal is to define a very
low energy budget for utilizing a finite amount of energy
on board in terms of battery capacity.
I discourage calling it an EMERGENCY bus . . . if airplanes
are properly designed and operated, electrical emergencies
don't happen. This is why we have an ESSENTIAL bus - to
keep an electrical event from becoming an EMERGENCY. Some
builders still call it their "avionics" bus and include
the now outdated "avionics master" switch in the normal
feed path. Note however that the essential bus in my drawings
have two, independent power pathways to get electrons to the
most needed devices.
Hope this helps . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Why don't you want an automotive alternator with a built in voltage
regulator?
>There are many homebuilts that fly with these. I have one myself-bought it
for
>$100- its out of a Chevy Spectrum- 60 amp and very small. I have 2 1/2 years
>and 300 hrs on it now with no problems.
I'm pleased that your experience with built in regulators has
been positive. However I'll ask that you please review:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/bltinreg.pdf
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/failtoll.pdf
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/crowbar.pdf
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/bleadov.pdf
Fly comfortable . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes:Mini Xenon Strobe |
>Heads-up, J C Whitney has a mini xenon strobe rated at 1,000,000 cp,
>12V,
>
>1/2 amp. 60 fpm, lexan lens, weatherproof housing, 1000 hr. life.
>
>I think this would qualify for aircraft use if above is true.
>
>$64.95. interesting?
Conventional wisdom suggests that we avoid hassles and just go
buy the TSO/PMA/STC item . . . HOWEVER, it just may be that
your local bearer of government holy water would consent to
the needed sprinkle if:
Borrow a photo flash light meter from a friendly photographer.
My personal favorite is the Gossen Luna Pro. Set up to measure
flash output in the direct radiation mode (little white plastic
window closed).
Find a few airplanes with high-dollar, already blessed
strobes on them and make some measurements using the hand held
flash meter. Use a yardstick to hold uniform distance from the
strobe head and make 8 measurments on the cardinal compass points
in the horizontal plane. Repeat for 30 and sixty degrees above
and below horizontal.
Get some data on several installed, certified systems.
Do the same thing with your proposed bootleg strobe. The lightmeter
readings should be equal to or greater than those for the certified
installations.
Gross calibration of the lightmeter is not an issue . . . you're
using it to compare one product with several others . . . we're
looking only for readings equal-to-or-greater.
When it comes time to sell your proposal to the cognizant
authority, you'll have DATA to justify your proposition that the
substitute strobe meets the spirit and intent of the rules
and is therefore suited for use on an amateur built airplane.
Yes, some of you may be anticipating some questions that could
require some additional effort but give this a try for the
first pass. If push comes to shove, I'll help with more detailed
and tighter controls on the tests . . . but if your inspector
is the least bit inclinded to favor good logic, this first pass
I've suggeseted may be enough . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: electrical problem |
>Did you happen to notice the ammeter while in the air. If it is showing a
>high rate of charge after a 'lap' or two around the pattern, then I'd look
>at your battery. A dying battery will pull a lot of current from the
>alternator. If this is the case, then all the current from the alternator
>will heat up the circuit breaker until it trips.
Batteries with a shorted cell change from a 12v to a 10v battery
and will indeed draw lots of extra current while being "charged"
from a 14v bus. Shorted cells result from a pile-up of flakey,
conductive material shed from the plates . . . which normally
fall harmlessly to the bottom of the cell cavity. Back in the
good ol' days, a deep pile of this flakey stuff would get too
deep and short a cell. There are a few, even more rare failure
modes of the separators between plates that can produce shorted
cells. Shorted cells in modern flooded batteries is extremely
rare and you woul notice it immediately in poor cranking performance
and dim lights with the alternator off. Further, a battery with
a shorted cell is likely to be so old that its useful service
life is long since passed.
Most (99.99%) of battery failures manifest themselves in poor
cranking performance and what appears to be a very rapid recharge
time after the engine starts. The time and amplitude of ammeter
"charge" indication after startup is directly related to the
battery's capacity and internal resistance. As capacity goes
down, resitance goes up and apparent charging time and amplitude
will both go down too.
In the instance under discussion, I don't belive this is the case.
>A friend of mine replaced the left position light after crunching into a
>hanger door. Got the part from the same make and model year complete with
>lamp. Flew several months before going at night. After that flight, he
>noticed the circuit breaker for the nav lights had tripped. Reset the
>breaker and thought nothing of it until the next flight. 'POP'
>
>He asked me to look into it. We pulled the wingtip and looked for chaffed
>wires; nothing. Looked at the holder, clean. Then looked at the lamp.
>Nothing note worthy. Looked at the right side. Nothing out of the
>ordinary their either.
>
>Then I noticed something; then left lamp was a 26 watt lamp. The right was
>a 20 watt lamp. Assuming that all nav lights were 20 watts in a 12 volt
>airplane, that makes 5 amps. The nav light breaker is a 5 amp breaker. Add
>6 watts to the mix and you 5.5 amps.
>The circuit breaker would not pop right away. It took about 15 minutes for
>it to get hot enough to trip.
The breaker was undersized . . . the minimum breaker size for nav
lites in a 14v airplane is 7.5 amps. Breakers and wiring used
to plumb the system should be selected with enough headroom
to INSURE NO NUISANCE TRIPS . . . I've written before about
breakers designed to nuisance trip in the form of a 60A breaker
on a 60A alternator . . . the writer has just identified another
one.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Digital Compass... |
Hi Listers,
I was thumbing through the latest Jameco catalog this evening and happened
across a pretty slick instrument that would seem to be a prefect fit for
your basic homebuilt project, if you know what I mean... ;-) Precision
Navigation Inc. now produces a nifty Electronic Compass Module that, at least
according to the write up, seems like it would work well in an aircraft.
They even mention installations in "RV"s in the application notes, although
I think they are probably referring to the road hogging, stinky diesel
burning variety...
Anyway, I've listed a couple of URL below that give lots of information on
the unit. I'm thinking this could replace either the wet or vertical card
compass in a typical VFR installation? Seems like with a GPS backup, you'd
have plenty of 'directional navigation'. Would the FAA inspector give the
nod? Comments and thought's???
The only bummer is that it doesn't have backlighting, which is just a
plain-old poor-design decision in my opinion.
Glossy Promo
http://www.precisionnavigation.com/navifindermain.html
Brief Feature List
http://www.precisionnavigation.com/navifinder.pdf
Installation and Application Notes:
http://www.precisionnavigation.com/nav_manual101.pdf
Oh, and did I mention its only $75? Yeah, unbelievable. Oh, but they do
have an aircraft version for $3000...
Matt Dralle
-----------
Mild Mannered List Admin. by Day,
Wild Rivet Pounder by Night!
(Well, some nights anyway...)
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | The 'Connection's Website is Down . . . |
Our website server has been down intermittantly for the past
several days. Seems that some folk can access it while others
cannot. When this all started, I was able to access it through
our normal cable-modem service and had FTP access as well. Now
it seems to be down 100%. Trying to find a website service tech
on a weekend is about as difficult and finding your doctor.
I've got several calls working to the local and corporate
support numbers.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | . . . I think it's working. |
Seems our website engineer decided that a change
of directory names for our website was in order.
The change was done without telling us anything
about it and it seems to have caused our difficulties
for the past 4 days. Seems some folk could get in
while others (including yours truly) could not.
Don't understand everything I've learned about this
problem but I think it's working now.
If anyone has trouble accessing our homepage at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
. . . . I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks for your patience and help. By the way, this
problem had NO EFFECT on our e-mail system and any
orders in work were not at risk.
Bob . . .
////
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
list-homebuilt ,
list-kolb ,
list-lancair ,
list-seaplane ,
list-tailwind ,
list-zenith
Greetings,
I have a limited supply of tie wrap strimg in 500yd spools I am
interested in selling. It is the flat braded, coated aircraft type that
will not come untied easily. I will sell if for $12 per spool shipping
included. If you are interested, contact me off the list. I also have
other products I offer. If you provide your US Postal address I will
send you a set of my flyers.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
I'd lost the original piece on Adel clamps but a helpful
builder pointed me to another site where it was republished.
I've captured the article and reposted it at:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/adel.html
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid and DG tracking . . . |
>I installed the Navaid device in N40VX and am generally satisfied with the
>performance. It tracks the SL-70 Apollo GPS well, although at first I
>wasn't sure that it did. The manual is not too good, and it took me some
>time to realize what I had to do to get it tracking.
>I would be grateful in Navaid would provide the ability in the device to
>track on a ground path, as if it was tracking on a heading bug on the DG.
>This would seem to be a fairly straightforward feature, and I am surprised
>that it doesn't seem to be possible with the unit I have..
>
See website at http://www.porcine.com/
You can purchase a coupler that will take the
heading bug output from a DG and steer your
wing leveler with it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid and DG tracking . . . |
>I don't have a bug on my DG, and was hoping that the Navaid could
>simply track on a heading. Don't see why not.
How would it sense what heading you were on? It needs
an electrical signal from a device designed to drive
the pointer in a CDI instrument (deviation from
a radial or ground track) or from a device like
heading bug on gyro (deviation from heading).
The Navaid has only a rate sensor (like a
turn coordinator) that deduces heading deviation
by multiplying degrees-per-second turn by seconds
and then working to keep that value "zeroed".
Rate devices and the electronics that integrate their
signals drift, hence variable degrees of ability
to hold a true heading with respect to the earth.
Even if you had a heading bug on the gyro, it too
will drift, abeit more slowly than a rate-based
device, unless it is magnetically slaved to the
earth.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | JPI vs. Matronics Settlement Reached... |
Dear Listers,
After seven months of negotiations, JP Instruments, Inc. and Matronics
have reached a mutually agreeable settlement. As most of you are aware,
in February of this year, JP Instruments, Inc. alleged that Matronics'
use of the trademark "FuelScan" with its aircraft fuel management system
infringed upon JP Instruments, Inc's trademark "Scanner" for engine
temperature indicators. JP Instruments, Inc. requested that Matronics
discontinue the use of the "FuelScan" mark. After considerable
negotiations, we have come to an agreement whereby JP Instruments, Inc.
will purchase the FuelScan trademark and, if necessary, assist in paying
the cost of Matronics' adoption of a new trademark. Matronics will
continue to sell and market its aircraft fuel management system under
the FuelScan trademark until a phase-out period of up to one year is
completed. This will allow Matronics time to sell out its current stock
of units marked with the FuelScan trademark and to develop a new
trademark.
While negotiations have been a bit trying at times, I would like to say
that I am satisfied with the outcome, and feel that JP Instruments, Inc.
has treated Matronics and me fairly in this matter. Furthermore, I
would encourage you to consider JP Instruments for your aircraft
avionics in the future as they manufacture an excellent product line.
Finally, I would like to thank everyone from around the world for their
support and consideration in this matter. I was quite moved by the
support - both financial and in the form of letters and comments - that
builders and pilots provided me and my company during this time. I
never felt alone during this period, and so very much appreciated the
encouragement from thousands of my friends! Thank you so very much!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
President, Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>In the OCTOBER issue of Sport Aviation is a notice about a new ignition
>device which the company Aqualytic Technologies of Sandpoint, ID
>believes is capable of replacing magnetoes and other types of ignition
>systems. It screws into a standard spark plug hole. It incorporates
>a small precombustion chamber containing a catalyst that ignites
>the engines fuel/air mixture.
>It produced normal power on 87 octane and 100 LL avgas and picked up
>75 rpm using Jet -A in a Continental O-200 ! If this is thrue and
>if it would be a STC, or equal, this is a dream for us in Europe
>with our expensive avgas.
>Any comments ?
Be SKEPTICAL . . . seems this idea was floated as SBIR grant
with NASA for last year. First phase grants are generally for
one year with a potential for follow-on work several years
later. Phase I is generally $100,000 while phase II grants
of $600,000 are possible. The thing to watch for is the
awarding of a Phase II grant.
Did a quick search of the 'net and found the following
URL's that refer to to the Aqualytic ignition product.
http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR-abstracts/98/sbir_html/980715.html
http://www.cda.net/stories/1998/Oct/29/S474456.asp
http://www.coe.isu.edu/engrg/ethanol.html
I recall dozens of stories about 60+ mpg carburetors, ignition
systems that boost power/mileage by umpteen percent, fuel processing
systems offering amazing "improvements" in performance, etc.
One guy even made national news about 40 years ago selling
a tablet that would convert a tank of water into a fuel
suitable for running your car.
Don't get me wrong. I wish this guy all the success that the
laws of physics are willing to let him have. However, just because
an agency of the US Government chooses to spend $100,000 on
any sort of program does not lend credance to its value.
I can think of $60M that is largely going down the tubes right
now on the AGATE program . . . but that's another story.
Keep your eyes and ears open, stroke the web with your favorite
search engines from time to time and see what happens. In
the mean time, I would be very cautious about offers to buy
any stock in the company . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flux remover |
>Here's an unsolicited tip for you and everybody building the microencoder.
>Don't use flux remover. The stuff that I had from Radio Shack in the can
>with the little brush on the end just smears stuff around and makes a big
>mess. After talking with RMI, I used lacquer thinner (the same ole stuff
>you clean your spray can out with, I used medium drying, but they say any
>kind is OK). You REALLY flush the board with this, and the flux comes off
>easily. The only caution is to not leave the stuff on there for very long
>(don't let it soak). Then just blow it off the surface.
I'll let you all in on another "secret" board cleaner product.
Wall-Mart stocks a carburetor cleaner that's like most of the
other carburetor cleaners . . . lacquer thinner in an aerosol
can. Of the three brands in my local store, they range in price
from $2.50 down to $0.88 . . . as near as I can tell, they're
all the same stuff . . . We buy the 0.88/can by the case and
have been using it for board cleaning for the past 15 or so
years.
Wash off liberally then use hair dryer on LOW to evaporate both
thinner and WATER that shows up as condensed humidity when the
board cools under evaporation of the thinnner.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-beech ,
list-cessna ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-homebuilt ,
list-kolb ,
list-lancair ,
list-piper ,
list-rocket ,
list-rvcanada ,
list-seaplane ,
list-tailwind ,
list-warbird ,
list-yak ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | Heated Pitot Tubes |
Greetings to the List,
I just received a new supply of heated pitot tubes. They are the
PH502-12CR (this used to be called the AN5812), and the AN5814-1. Both
styles of these pitot tubes are 12 volt and only come in a chrome
finish. The PH502-12CR has only the dynamic source for the air speed
indicator, but the AN5814 has a heated static source as well and it
looks good. I sell the PH502-12CR for $135 and the AN5814 is $199.
I also sell the mounting bracket kits to hold the pitot to your
aircraft. These are also available in the same chrome finish as the
pitot tubes to make a beautiful installation. These mouning bracket kits
come with all the parts needed for the installation and come with some
detailed instructions and photos of the process. This kit will work on
either a metal airplane or composite. The price of the mounting bracket
kits is $105.
All of my prices INCLUDE shipping in the US.
I have other products that may be of interest to you. If you would like
a set of flyers on my products, provide me with you US Postal Mail
address and I will send you a set.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
303-770-3811
gretz_aero(at)h2net.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-ez-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Noise |
>--> RV-List message posted by: Joe Czachorowski
>
> I have a small annoying problem. I have a King KY97A Comm
>radio. It was pre-wired at the factory (I guess). It works great as
>long as the electric turn coordinator is not running. When I hook up
>the turn coordinator, I get the motor(gyro?) noise in my headset with
>the squelch off. If I turn the squelch on, I don't hear it. I'm doing
>this test with the engine NOT running. Is this normal? Will this noise
>also affect my transmissions? BTW, I have individual ground wires going
>to a common ground block on the firewall as per Electric Bob. Any ideas
>out there?
>
Turn coordinators are high on the list of potential
noise generators. What you describe is consistent with
noise conducted out of the TC and onto the bus via its
14v power lead. Try putting a filter in the leadwires
to the TC. Radio Shack has an inductor, capacitor combo they
sell for about $4. It will need to mount in a small "project
box". I generally wire up the components with a pair of
goesinta and goesouta wires through grommets. The RS
part number for electrical components kit is 270-030.
I've published a copy of a drawing describing a power
conditioner we used to build at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/pwr_cnd.pdf
which you are welcome to download and use for guidance
on fabrication of your own noise filter.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Noise |
>Bob, does this mean that if I want a turn co-ordinator I should plan a noise
>filter from the begginning?
No, please don't add a filter just 'cause someone else
has reported a problem . . . you only need to do this IF
your sure your situation is identical to the other guy's.
A builder called me about 10 years ago and spent about
5 minutes describing all the shielding and filtering he'd
done on his airplane and then asked, "What else do I need?"
I asked, "Gee, I dunno, what kind of noise problem do you
have".
"Oh," sez he, "No problem, I haven't flown the airplane
yet."
He had hours, dollars and pounds invested in noise abatement
techniques that vast majority of which he probably didn't
need.
If your T/C is a KNOWN antagonist, meaning that a number
of people have the same make and model and fixed a noise
problem by adding a filter, then it's a good bet that you'll
need it also. But lacking that kind of situation, don't
hang filters on things until a problem manifests itself
and you've identified source, propogation path, and victim.
(See chapter on Noise Abatement in my book).
>Also, does the Navaid autopilot/turn co-ordinator need one too?
I've not heard of anyone needing to filter the Navaid. (Has
anyone else out there been aware of a Navaid noise problem?)
>Can two devices share the same noise filter?
Sometimes . . . but remember that a single power source
for two devices makes them vulnerable to single points
of failure for both devices. One device craps and takes
out the fuse for both.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Sizing (was Another How To Page) |
>I feel like I'm sending an e-mail to the two experts . . . so here goes . .
Hey, it's nice when there's more than one doctor in town when
your looking for answers . . .
>Bob and John . . . what is recommended where you want to be able to do a
>wiring disconnect (for example, tail light going into fuselage . . . nav
>lights going into wing ribs). What do you use, where do you get it . . .
>and if it needs a crimping tool, what do you recommend? I know this is
>basic, but you can save me a bunch of reading.
>Thanks in advance,
Are your talking about wing roots, etc? Do you plan folding or
removable wings? I know of very few certified ships that have
had wings removed even once in their 30+ year lifetimes. Unless
you PLAN to open and remate electrical connections a lot, then
run solid wires through the area. Put service loops in of about
6" of wire so that if you ever DO pull the wings, you have slack
to accomodate butt splices . . . the single most reliable means
for rejoining an opened wire.
For wires at fixture locations, again, the butt slice is the
#1 choice for dealing with single wires. The likelihood that
you're going to cut out and replace a splice more than once
over the lifetime of the airplane is very small.
Nav lights are unique in terms of power distribution. They
are two amps each and you could wire with 22AWG wire for each
bulb but you have to breaker the system for total loads of
6+ amps. This means that you have to use a 7A breaker/fuse
as a minimum which drives wire size to 20AWG. If it's a composite
airplane, using 18AWG will get you a little more light at the
lamps 'cause the round trip is longer for power and ground . . .
and 18AWG wire in nav light circuits wouldn't be out of line.
Stay with a 7A fuse.
Does this help?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Crimp, Solder or Both? |
>Robert,
>Do you recommend soldered connections always or are crimped ones
>satisfactory.
>
>Eric
Funny you should ask. I've JUST uploaded an updated article
I published about 4 years ago in Kit Aircraft Builder. Please
download:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/terminal.pdf
. . . the short answer is leave your soldering iron in
the toolbox. Take the time to understand what crimped
terminals are about, how to use the tools for applying
them and selecting terminals for use on your project.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Our website woes . . . |
For the Nth time, my service provider's rep tells me
that they've figured out the problem . . . just checked
it myself and things seem to be working right.
If anyone is still having trouble accessing our files,
try clearing out the cache files of your browser. Seems
an attempt to get into the bogus server equipment may have
left some vestiges of bad urls on your browser's
cache files. Feedback from the field would be welcome
on this. I've been fighting it for two weeks now!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BOB: Two Alternator Power Distribution Diagram |
>Looking at your diagram, if you have an over voltage
>condition won't you open both field fuses? In this
>fault your no better than having one alternator. Or
>did I miss something?
Very good question! With the OV protection systems
of yesteryear, the condition you suggest would happen.
A single overvoltage condition would trip both alternators
off line. IF one uses the B&C regulators, they've
been fitted with selective trip circuitry . . . the
ov protection KNOWS if his alternator or some other
source is responsable for the ov condition. Only the
failed system is tripped off line.
If you build up a dual alternator system using automotive
regulators and my crowbar ov modules, you will indeed
trip both alternators off at the same time . . . you
reset the breakers for one system at a time and only
once to decide which is the failed system. In either
case, you still have the reliability of two alternators,
you don't have the convenience of automatic failure
diagnosis.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear driven alternator |
>I'm thinking about installing a B&C gear driven alternator in my RV-6A. The
>AS&S catalog gives a brief description. It says that it is an 8 amp unit.
>Limited feedback from the List indicates that it is reliable. My
>plane-to-be will be day, VFR with a radio, turn & bank indicator,
>micro-encoder and transponder. I would use this as my only alternator. I
>have two questions. Am I crazy, or is this workable? Can I get information
>about the B&C alternator on the internet?
Sure. Day vfr loads is exactly what the SD-8 was designed for.
That was B&C's first product that came on the market about 18
years ago to support Ez builders with some day/vfr electrical
system. There are MANY sport bi-planes flying with an SD-8
as sole source of power.
The SD-8 has evolved to a 10 amp machine . . . all in all,
a robust, light and reliable alternative to more conventional
alternator/battery systems.
For more info, call B&C at 1.316.283.8000
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: www.aeroelectric.com |
>Is anybody else having trouble getting into Aeroelectric.com? Bob says it's
>fixed, but I still can't get in. Even dumped my caches.
>Darrel
>
As I write these words, I'm waiting for an e-mail from
a NEW service provider that will give me the IP address
to begin transfering our site to another server. The
fellow I spoke with during the signup process says our
problem is not uncommon in the industry when domains
are transfered wholesale from one machine to another.
It seems that we still exist on both machines. Depending
on which way the wind is blowing and/or other forces
unknown to me, I can FTP into the real site or the old
one. Some folks in the field are experiencing similar
variability with browser access to the site.
Given the extremely poor engineering services I've been
offered over the past three weeks, I'll be officially
pulling the plug on DTC.net (old) and bewell.net (new)
as soon as Internic can broadcast the change to the
internet community. The whole process should be done
within the next three to four days although it could
happen as early as Monday. I'll post a general note
when the new site begins to recognize aeroelectric.com
The new site will offer secure business transactions,
web site searches, and a number of other nifty features
that will help us expand our level of services to the
amateur built aviation community. My thanks to those
who have been keeping me up to date on site access and
for your patience. The light at the end of the tunnel
is NOT an oncoming train . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
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< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Question |
>> An alternator puts out dirty current, which some electronics can not
>> handle, but by running it through
>> a battery cleans it up. So if you lost your battery, 2 alternators could
>> be a whole lot of nothing.
>> But with 2 batteries you have 30 hours or more of reserve if you lost
>> your alternator.
>>
>> No two alternators!
>Bob......What's your opinion on this
Yeah but . . . . repeat after me, "I solomly swear that I will
do my best to observe the laws of physics and conduct maintenance
on my airplane to live well INSIDE the envelope of operations
for the equipment installed."
There is no reason for anyone to LOOSE a battery. If you flog
it until it doesn't crank the engine for the 4th or 5th time,
don't do periodic capacity checks or fail to replace it
periodically to insure minimal levels of servicability, -AND-
you suffer from the "if-it's-good-for-50K-Cessnas, it's-gotta-
be-good-for-my-airplane" syndrome, then indeed, 20 alternators
wouldn't do you any good. Let's reveiw the facts and physics:
(1) Most alternators do indeed need SOME form of battery on line
not so much for cleaning up "dirty current" as for stabilization
of the alternator/regulator's voltage regulatrion servo-loop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Temporary Articles Access . . . |
Folk who have been trying to download the past
several days article announcements may access them
from here:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Integrity Measurements |
I've had two requests recently on an article I did
three years ago for KAB magazine on bulding a 4-wire
milliohmmeter. I've resurected the article and updated
it. Interested builders can find this 150K .pdf file at:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | All-Electric Airplane and Website Progress |
I've just uploaded an article that mirrors some new info
that will be included in upcomming Revision 9 to the book.
It deals with all-electric airplanes for those of us who
are on a budget . . . aren't we all?
See:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/
I've also uploaded our entire website including articles
to a new server on the east coast. Between cable modem
here and their multiple fiber optic feeds, the whole
30+ megabyte upload took less than 30 minutes. I've still
got some bugs to work out on how to speak to their
forms mailer. I'm also pondering their secure server
features and site search capabilities . . . once I get
educated, our site should take some quantum leaps forward.
Thanks to all for the time and effort to give me
feedback while we were still wrestling with the old service
provider . . . those folks are history.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Contribution / Donation |
Items for sale w/ proceeds to help maintain Matronics websites.
Offers should be directed to:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Upon receipt of donation amount, items will be shipped.
No reasonable offer refused!
Unreasonable ones considered!
This will be a one-time posting.
NEW:
Heated Pitot Tube, 24v. "L" shaped.
Aero Instruments #5814-2
Flap Motor w/ adjustable stops. 24v.
Comm.Aircraft Prods. #D145-00-35-7
USED:
Narco Transponder AT5-A
Astronautics amplifier servo 53-005-214 mod#P1SA
Narco altitude reporter. to 25k' Model# AR500
King KS-505 power supply modulator
RCA AVQ55 Weather radar antenna MI 591000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>> What is the latest thoughts on using the foil dipole antenna from S-H?
>> I already have it and want to use it. Also what is the best choice for
>> other antenna locations? Nav, transponder, marker beacon, elt? There
>> are more 'Star's out there flying now so we should have some definitive
>> answers from real world experiences. All help would be appreciated since
>> I am bonding the fuselage and this is an integral part of the job if you
>> want ot conceal the antenna.
Real world perspectives on amateur built antenna installations
run the gamut from (a) doesn't work worth a @#$@#! to (b) works
really fine! Never have I seen engineering test data to compare
a new antenna with an old one. Go ahead and install any and all
antennas you might like to try. If they're inside, there's little
harm done if you decide your experiment falls into the !@#$@#$!
category. At the worst, you'll replace them with time honored
whiskers sticking out everywhere. Odds are in your favor that
they WILL perform adequately to you task.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark delano <mdelano(at)mho.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Contribution / Donation |
I will offer $25.00 for the pitot tube
Mark Delano
Archie wrote:
>
> Items for sale w/ proceeds to help maintain Matronics websites.
> Offers should be directed to:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Upon receipt of donation amount, items will be shipped.
> No reasonable offer refused!
> Unreasonable ones considered!
> This will be a one-time posting.
>
> NEW:
> Heated Pitot Tube, 24v. "L" shaped.
> Aero Instruments #5814-2
>
> Flap Motor w/ adjustable stops. 24v.
> Comm.Aircraft Prods. #D145-00-35-7
> USED:
> Narco Transponder AT5-A
> Astronautics amplifier servo 53-005-214 mod#P1SA
> Narco altitude reporter. to 25k' Model# AR500
> King KS-505 power supply modulator
> RCA AVQ55 Weather radar antenna MI 591000
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using oil lines for a battery cable. |
Earlier this week, there was a little bit of discussion
about combining an oil line with a ground system in
a canard pusher aircraft. The line was to bring warm
oil forward for use as a cabin heat source. The writer
wondered if the same line could be used as an electrical
conductor to replace a 2AWG ground wire.
I could see how it might be done. The potential hazard
would arise from the single point of contact between
the liquid carrying tubing and the electrical connection
to that tubing. If that joint, and the one adjacent to
it were of impecable integrity, then no electrical arcing
and subsequent damage to the liquid carrying component
could occur due to poor conduction, overheating and
arcing.
I could see a copper strap looped around the tubing at
some appropriate location, soldered to the tubing and
formed into a tab where a wire could be bolted on
to carry electrons off to a destination separate from
the oil.
I suggested that the technique might save 2.5 pounds
in the total weight of the airplane and further that
the builder consider the trade off between the ease
and confidence of a tube and wire installation versus
taking on the task of making sure the dual use
installation was technically sound.
I expected to get a flood of mail about this . . .
I have received a few responses that run in this
general flavor:
>I've been mechanicing for a while and the general formula is to keep the
>electrical and fluid lines seperate. It introduces to many oppurtunities for
>sparking which would creat hot spots that would put holes in the tubing.
Understood. That philosophy operates under the assumption that
sparking and arcing WILL occur. If one designs a system wherein
arcing CANNOT occur, then the system is intrinsically safe.
For example, certain potential electrical energy levels are
ALLOWED inside a fuel tank because we understand the physics
that supports combustion and/or explosions. Saturated vapors
cannot combust due to lack of oxygen, ignition cannot happen
below certain energy densities within an explosive atmosphere,
etc. Automobiles have depended on these simple truths for
over 60 years and we've yet to see the ass-ends of cars
being blown off by their fuel gages.
Bureaucratic posturing and rewriting of the laws of physics
to support TWA 800 soothsayers not withstanding, there are
ways to bring potentially hazardous substances into close
proximity with potentially antagonistic phenomenon with comfort.
It's like defining the weight and ballance envelope for an
airplane, stay inside and your future is bright, venture outside
and risks multiply rapidly.
Rules of thumb, general formulas and other sage advice don't
have to consider anything except the stature of the authors,
their power to promote them, and our willingness to accept them.
The amateur built airplane arena is one of the few places
left were politicians and bureaucrats have yet to take a
strangle-hold on philosophy and technology. In this venue,
no idea is unworthy of consideration under the light and
magnifying glass of physics.
Personally, I'd have no problem fabricating such a system
and flying it with confidence. An amateur builder may want
to solicit the aid of one experienced in the mechanical
skills of putting the parts together. He might even consider
backing off the oil line and using the vacuum line (if
he's unfortunate enough to need one) to do the dual task.
I took on this issue to illustrate the precious value of
the freedom we have to do good science on our airplanes.
I'm sure I came off a bit wild-eyed a few days ago when
I responded to someone's query about an FAA inspector's
request to do a detailed weight and balance document for
an amateur built airplane. It's not that doing such a
document is a BAD idea, but it's not necessary from a
regulatory perspective. Nor does it have much value in
the future operation of the airplane . . . perhaps an
exercise with EDUCATIONAL value but certainly no more.
The requestor may have been genuinely interested in
advancing the builder's understanding of airplanes. No
matter what HIS/HER motivation, should some future up-n-
coming bureaucrat find reference to or even a copy of such
a document in an FAA file, there's an opportunity for
an educational exercise to take root and grow up as
a requirement.
Ben Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of
Independence allowed as how, "We should all hang
together or most certainly we shall all hang
separately." The future of our craft and right to
practice it is delicately balanced on our ability
to "hang together." Fly comfortably my friends
but be watchful for the noses of camels circling
our collective tent . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Solid State Strobe?!?! |
Yesterday afternoon I saw a prototype of a red flashing
beacon sent in to Raytheon for evaluation. The light emitters
were an array of about 50 high intensity RED leds. The
total power draw of this beacon at 28v was .3 amps.
A 14v model would be .6 amps. Aside from the usual
glass dome over the lamps, there was only a small lump
on the bottom of the fixture to provide a housing for
flasher electronics.
As I watched the demonstration, I wondered if the intensity
and color requirements were being met but all-in-all,
the prototype was impressive. I've been pondering the
possibility of doing something similar on amateur built
airplanes. Xenon filled tubes, 300v power supplies, whining
noises in the headsets and $600 beacons need to go the
way of the dodo bird.
We may have witnessed the seeds of fulfillment of that
wish. Stay tuned.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | [Please Read] List Fund Raiser Continues; LOC #1 December 1st! |
Greetings Listers!
Don't forget the 1999 List Fund Raiser is still in progress and there is
still plenty of time to make a Contribution and assure yourself a place
on on the first List Of Contributors (LOC)! I will post the first LOC
on December 1st and it will detail everyone that has generously made a
Contribution so far this year!!
It costs a great deal to maintain the Email and Web server systems and
high-speed Internet connection that provide the Email List services
found here. I won't even mention the many, many hours I spend each week
running the Lists, doing backups, handling subscription requests, and
creating new email and web features and services such as the Archive
Search Engine, and Archive Browser... Whoops; I think I just did! :-)
This year's Fund Raiser started out pretty slow and I was starting to
think that no one appreciated me anymore... ;-) But, in the last week
or so things have really started to pick up! So if you haven't made a
Contribution yet this year, why not join your email List friends and
make a contribution today to support the continued operation of these
Lists!
There are two easy methods for making your Contribution:
* Make a SSL Secure Web Contribution using your Visa or MasterCard,
surf over to:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
* Make a Contribution by check, send US Mail to:
Matronics
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
I would like to sincerely thank everyone who has already made a
Contribution so far this year! I greatly appreciate your generosity and
support and want you to know that these Lists have been made possible
directly by *YOU*!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Your Email List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exide Orbital Recombinant Battery ? |
>Exide is selling a "recombinant" battery. See www.exideworld.com. How does
>it compare to the recombinant aircraft batteries sold by Concorde and B&C ?
Took a look at this site and it appears that the product
is a descendant of the jelly-roll cells originally
developed and patented over 20 years ago. The cells
were (and still are) marketed under Gate's Energy Products
Cyclon brand for about the past 15 years or more.
When the Gate's patents expired a number of folk
took interest in the technology. When Gates sold
off the battery division, a company in Denver got the
tooling for the big jelly-roll cells while another
company (Hawker I think) took over the litte version.
We use the 2 a.h. cells to this day in our MQM
series targets.
We should expect to see more of the "silo" batteries
to pop up. Exide is a very old and respected name in
rechargable batteries. The technology used in the Orbital
battery is quite mature. These are reasons to believe
their offering is technically near if not at the
top of the heap in the growing field of portable
energy storage devices.
I did get the following from their website:
THE ORBITAL BATTERY IS SENSITIVE TO HIGH VOLTAGE
CHARGING (ABOVE 14.4 VOLTS).THE RECOMMENDATION IS
TO USE A 6 TO 12 AMP, 12 VOLT AUTOMATIC CHARGER SET
AT THE REGULAR SETTING. IF YOU USE A NON- AUTOMATIC
CHARGER, YOU NEED TO MONITOR THE VOLTAGE SO IT
DOES NOT EXCEED 14.4 VOLTS AND/OR 12 AMPS ANYTIME
DURING RECHARGE. THIS BATTERY ONLY NEEDS
RECHARGING IF THE OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE (O.C.V.) IS
BELOW 12.5 VOLTS.
Unlke the Gates-now-Hawker products, their recommendations
are more conservative with respect to care and feeding
of the battery. That 14.4V/12A limit is, I believe,
NOT a red-line where exceeding the values means instant
or even accelerated demise of the battery. In automotive
applications where you are encouraged to flog-it-til-
it-dies, the 14.4/12 limits will optomize service life.
This is NOT an inexpensive battery. Further, it's probably
only offered in automotive sizes (24 a.h. or there-abouts)
so it's not a lightweight. Nor is it going to be in-expensive.
In the grand picture of our need for reliable cranking,
and RESERVE energy storage, I would encourage builders
to think lighter, less expensive and REPLACE based on
capacity than to sink a lot of bux into an expensive,
classy car battery and suffer the temptation to flog-
it-til-it-dies.
I found this tid bit on their website too . . .
Because Exide Select orbital can withstand abuses that kill
conventional batteries, it's a perfect choice for many vehicles,
including classic cars, RVs, boats (starting only), taxis, seasonal
and farm equipment.
. . . an interesting contrast to the charging instructions
cited above. The #1 "abuse" suffered by airplane batteries
is long periods of inattention. The very low self-discharge
rates of EVERYBODY's RG battery makes them less susceptable
to loss in storage. But if one interprets the charging
recommendations paragraph as oh-my-gosh-gospel then I'll
suggest the Exide Orbital is no more rugged than most
other RG products on the market.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gel Cell Battery |
>Bob:
>
>Where can I get one of the 17-amp gel cells you mentioned?
>
>Dick Carden
>
Ain't no such thing as a gel cell any more. The recombinant
gas batteries are sold by EVERYBODY. There are a half
dozen consumer battery stores in Wichita that handle
the 17 a.h. class battery. Look for brands like Panasonic,
Yuasa, Powersonic, etc. If the battery is "sealed lead
acid", has dimensions on the order of 3" x 6.5" x 6.5"
and has terminals that will accept 4AWG wire attached with
1/4" bolts, then it's what you want. They shouldn't cost
you more than $65.
Don't buy your flight battery until you're ready to fly
the airplane. Jury-rig a car or garden tractor battery
into your system for ground testing or use a ground
power supply like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/tools/tools.html#gpu14-23
Go buy your flight battery the day before you take the
airplane to the airport.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 1999 List of Contributors #1 and a Special Thank You Message!! |
Dear Listers,
I would like to personally thank each and everyone that has contributed
this year to 1999 List Fund Raiser! As you can see from the list of
names below, there were many, many generous people from the Lists this
time around and I want everyone to know just how much your support has
meant to me. The list of members below includes those that have
contributed during this year's List Fund Raiser as well as those that
have contributed throughout the year and also those that made a donation
to my Legal Defense Fund earlier in the year that was sponsored my our
own Bob Nuckolls of Aero Electric.
I want everyone to know just how much it means to me to receive the type
of financial support for these Lists that I have this year. As the Lists
have grown so much over the last few years, so have the equipment costs
as well as the monthly costs such as the Internet connectivity. Your
generosity during the Fund Raiser and throughout the year, truly makes
the continued operation, and more importantly, the continued upgrade and
improvement of these aviation-related services directly possible. That
is the bottom line. Please accept my most sincere appreciation of the
amazing and, at times, overwhelming generosity of so many of you
wonderful people! Thank you!!
For those of you that didn't quite get your contribution in on time for
this first List of Contributors - be it by check or by credit card - I
will be posting a followup List of Contributors #2 for 1999 in a few
weeks to make sure that I properly acknowledge each and everyone of the
generous List members. One last time, the addresses to make a contribution
are:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or
Matt Dralle
c/o Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Finally, thank you all so much for your support this year both in terms
of the financial contribution but also in the form of the letters and
moral support during what can only be categorized as a very stressful and
unsettling time. And I think you know what I'm referring to... Your
support and encouragement meant more to me than you'll ever know. I felt
as if I had 2500 friends all behind me, and that's a *powerful* force!
Well done one and all! Thank you!
Best regards for the upcoming year.
Your Email List Administrator,
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Builder #1763
=================== 1999 List of Contributors #1 ====================
Abell, John
Acker, Rob
Adams, Bob
Adamson, Larry
Ahamer, Karl
Albachten, Rudy III
Alcazar, Jesus
Allen, Brent
Allison, Steven
Ammeter, John
Amundsen, Blair
Anderson, Edward
Armstrong, Robert
Arnold, James
Aronson, David
Ashford, James
Ashton, Kent
Atkinson, Harold
Baggett, Robert
Baker, Gary
Baker, Ray
Baldwin, James
Barlow, Melvin
Barnes, Thomas
Barnes, Tom
Barnhart, Dave
Barrenechea, Godo
Battles, Brenton
BB Diversified Services, LTD
Bechtel, Amos
Bell, Bruce
Belted Air Power LTD.
Benhan, Dallas
Bennett, Peter
Besing, Paul
Bieber, Mike
Bilodeau, Paul
Bird, Carroll
Blanton, Stan
Bleier, Roger
Blomgren, Jack
Blum, Ronald
Boadright, Kyle
Boardman, Don III
Boatright, Kyle
Boatright, Robert
Bodie, Pete
Bonesteel, Wayne
Booze, Gregory
Borne, Charles
Bourgeois, Rion
Bourne, Larry
Bovan Pe, Vaso
Bowen, Larry
Bowen, Miles
Bower, Bob
Bowhay, Eustace
Bowman, Brian R
Boyd, Rodney
Branscomb, Warren
Bray, Garrett
Brian Lloyd
Brick, John
Bridgham, David
Brogley, Mike
Brooks, Chris
Brooks, John
Brott, Marvin
Brown, Kent
Brown, Scott
Buckwalter, David - Avionics Systems
Burlingame, Ralph
Burnham, Dave
Calhoun, Ronald
Calvert, Jerry
Cantrell, Ken
Capen, Ralph
Cardinal, Gregory
Carey, Christopher
Carr, David
Carter, Jerry
Carter, Ron
Casey, Jeremy
Chapple, Glen
Chesnut, Bruce
Chesnut, William
Christensen, Peter
Christie, William
Churchill, Frank
Ciolino, John
Clabots, Gerald
Clark, Howard
Clark, James
Clary, Buck
Clay, Dennis
Cloughley, Bill
Cole, Ed
Colontonio, Moe
Colucci, Anthoney
Conaway, James
Cook, David Sr.
Cooley, John
Copeland, Forrest
Corder, Michael
Corriveau, Grant
Cotter, Timothy
Cox, Carson
Croby, Harry
Crosley, Richard
Cullen, Chuck
Czinkota, Garnet
Dall, Richard
Daudt, Larry
Davidson, Jeff
Davis, Christopher
Davis, Jared
Davis, Steve - The Panel Pilot
Davis, William
Day, Robert
Deffner, David
Del Peso, Jose
Derrik, Chuck
Desmond, Richard
Devine, Steven
Devlin, John
Dewees, Ron
Dial, J.R.
Dominey, Clifford
Dorsey, Bob
Downing, Jeff
Dubroc, Tommy
Dudley, Richard
Duffy, Russell
Duncan, John
Dunlap, E.T.
Dziewiontkoski, Bob
Eagleston, Ron
Eagleston, Ronald
Eastburn, James
Elder, William
Elhai, Irv
Emrath, Marty
Ensing, Dale
Ervin, Thomas
Erwin, Chip - Czech Aircraft Works
Evans, Monte
Exstrom, Daniel
Faile, David
Farrar, Jeffrey
Farris, Paul
Fetzer, George
Fiedler, Mike
Filucci, Michael - Red Dragon Aviaion
Finch, K
Flaherty, Edward
Floyd, Joseph
Ford, David
Forrest, Gerald
Forsting, Robert
Fortner, Earl
Four Star Products
Frank, Dan
Franz, Carl
Frazier, Vince
Frederick, Mark
French, Edwin
Friedman, Frank
Froehlich, Carl
Fromm, John
Fry, John
Funk, Edwin Jr.
Funnell, Augustus
George, William
Gilbert, Mark
Giusti, Roberto
Glaser, Arthur
Glass, Roy
Glover, Ken
Gold, Andy - Builder's Book Store
Goldberg, Mark
Good, Chris
Gooding, Lawrence
Goolsby, Jim
Gott, Shelby
Goudreault, Jacques
Graham, James Jr.
Grant, Jordan
Griffin, Bill
Griffin, Randy
Groom, Larry
Guillosso, Alain
Hale, Michael
Hales, Sherman
Hall, Bob
Hall, Thomas
Hamer, Steven
Hamilton, Thom
Hamilton, William
Hand, Chris
Hansen, Ronald
Hargis, Merle
Harmon, John
Harper, Malcom
Harrill, Roy
Harris, John
Hart, Daniel
Harvey, Doug
Hassall, J.C.
Hastedt, Margaret
Hatch, Fletcher III
Hatcher, Clive
Hatfield, Cecil
Hays, Wes
Henderson, George
Henderson, Randall
Heritch, Ian
Herndon, Richard
Herren, Bill
Hevern, Jerry
Hiatt, Mark
Hiers, Craig
Hinch, Christopher
Hine, Joe
Hinkley, Curtis
Hinrichsen, James
Hodge, Jack
Hodgson, Bob
Hodson, Frank
Hoffman, Carl
Holcombe, Richard
Horton, Kevin
Hoshowski, Ken
Hrycauk, Dave
Hughes, Robert
Hulen, Fred
Hundley, Richard
Hurd, James
Hurlbut, Steve
Hutcheson, Ken
Ihlenburg, Fred
Ingram, Jim
Irace, Bill
Irwin, Eric
Isler, Jerry
Ivers, James
James, Larry
Janes, Bob
Janicki, Steven
Japundza, Bob
Jeens, Ken
Johannsson, Johann
Johnson, Jackie
Johnson, Stephen
Jones, Bryan
Jones, Rob
Jones, Russ
Jonker, Bill
Jordan, Thomas
Jory, Rick
Kampthorne, Hal
Kayner, Dennis
Keithley, Rick
King, Da Ve
Kirby, Dennis
Kirby, Graham
Kirtland, Charles
Kitz, John
Knezacek, Dan
Knievel, Gerald
Knoll, Bruce
Kosta, Michael
Kowalski, Ed
Krueger, Dan
Krueger, Scott
Kuss, Charlie
Laczko, Frank Sr.
Lamb, Richard
Lane, Kevin
Lassen, Finn
Laurence, Peter
Laverty, Mike
Lawson, John
Leaf, Dave
Lee, John
Lee, Ric
LeGare, Garry
Leggette, Len
Leonard, William
Lerohl, Gaylen
Lervold, Randy
Lewis, Terry
Lewis, Tim
Ligon, Howard
Lind, Laird
Linebaugh, Jeffrey
Loeber, Wayne
Ludeman, Bruce
Lutes, Rick
Mac Donald, Lawrence
MacKay, Alex
Malczynski, Francis
Mandell, Tom
Marino, Anthony
Marion, Chris
Markert, Michael
Marshall, Robert
Martin, Tom
Maxson, Phil
Mazatuad, Mme Hyun Sook
McElhoe, Bruce
McFarlane, Lloyd
McGee, Michael
McHarry, Joe
McHenry, Tedd
McKibben, Gerald
McNamara, Don
Melder, Frank
Melia, Tom
Metzger, Stephen
Meyers, John
Miller, Jim & Dondi - Aircraft Technical Support
Mitchell, Duane
Moen, Craig
Mojzisik, Allan
Molzen, Jason
Mondy, Malia
Moore, Thomas
Moore, Warren
Morelli, Bill
Morelli, William
Morris, Daniel III
Morrison, Mark
Morrow, Dan
Moulin, Roger
Munn, Mike
Murphy, Ray Jr.
Neal, Danny
Nellis, Michael
Nelson, James
Nelson, Jim
Newell, Alan
Nguyen, Thomas
Nice, James
Nicely, Vincent
Norris, Rob
Nowakowski, Donald
Noyer, Robert
Nuckolls, Robert
Olendorf, Scott
Olson, Larry
Olson, Tom
Orear, Jeffrey
Owens, Laird
Palinkas, Gary
Pardue, Larry
Paulson, Craig
Peck, Bill & Kathy
Peer, Michael - Jem Aviation
Peryk, Dennis
Peternel, Stanley
Petersen, Eric
Petersen, Paul
Peterson, Alex
Pflanzer, Randy
Phillips, Mark
Pickrell, Jim
Pike, Richard
Pinneo, George
Pittenger, Dick
Plathey, Claude
Point, Jeff
Polstra, Philip
Porter, Richard
Porter, Robert
Potter, Mark
Pretzsch, Robert
Ragsdale, Bill
Randolph, George
Ransom, Ben
Rathbun, Richard
Reeck, Jay
Reed, Derek
Reed, Frank
Reisdorfer, Mark
Reynolds, Richard
Richardson, Ray - Powersport Aviation Inc.
Riedlinger, Paul
Riley, Stuart
Roach, Brian
Rodgers, Brian
Rosales, Paul
Rowbotham, Charles
Rowles, Les
Rozendaal, Doug
Rutherford, Ted
Sa, Carlos
Sager, Jim
Sailer, Martin
SanClemente, Andrew
Sapp, Doug
Sargent, Tom
Sax, Samuel
Schemmel, Grant
Schippers, John
Schmitt, Clayton
Schneeflock, Robert
Schrimmer, Mark
Schwarz, Guillermo
Selby, Jim - JKL Aviation Sales
Seward, Douglas
Shackleford, Howard
Shafer, Jim
Shank, Bill
Sheets, Douglas
Shenk, Doug
Shepherd, Dallas
Shettel, Maurice
Shipley, Walter
Sigmon, Harvey
Silverstein, Chuck
Sipp, Dick
Slaughter, Mike
Small, Thomas
Smith, Clayton
Smith, Edmund
Smith, Philip
Smith, Shelby
Smithey, Lloyd
Snyder, David
Solecki, John
Sparks, Timothy
Stafford, David
Staub, Skip
Steer, Bill
Stobbe, Bruce
Stoffers, Larry
Stone, James
Strandjord, Eric
Swaney, Mark
Tauch, Eric
Tauchen, Bryan
Taylor, Tod
Team Rocket
Thayer, George
Therrien, Michel
Thistelthwaite, Geoffrey
Thoman, Daniel
Thomas, Lee
Thomas, Tim
Thompson, Michael
Todd, John
Tompkins, Jeff
Tower, John
True, George
Tucker, Harold
Tuton, Beauford
Tyrrel, Charles
Upshur, Bill
Uribe, Guillermo
Uribe, Gullermo
Utterback, Thomas
Van Der Sanden, Gert
Vandervort, Ronald
VanGrunsven, Stanley
Varnes, William
Volum, Peter
Von Ruden, Dennis
VonLindern, Paul
Vosberg, Roy
Waligroski, Gregg
Walker, Tommy
Walrath, Howard
Ward, Ed
Warren, John
Washburn, Oliver
Watson, Dennis
Watson, Terrence
Watson, William
Webb, Randol
Weber, Ed
Weber, Edward
Weller, Michael
Wendel, Jim
Wentzell, David
Werner, Russ
Werner, Russell
Westridge, David
Whelan, Thomas
Whiler, Douglas
Whitehead, Arthur
Wiesel, Dan
Wigney, John
Williams, Jimmy
Williams, Keith
Williams, Lawrence
Willig, Louis
Wills, Mike
Wilson, Billy
Wittman, James
Wood, Denton
Wood, John
Wood, Mark
Worstell, Glen
Worthington, Victor
Wotring, Dale
Wymer, Gerald
Young, Charles
Young, Rollin
Youngblood, Barry
Zeidman, Richard
Zigaitis, Kestutis
Zinkham, Ralph
Zwart, Frank
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Zenith-List: Nav light grounding |
>> I'm building a 701 but the answer should apply to a 601 as well. Do I
>> need to run a separate ground wire to my wing and tail nav lights and
>> strobe power supplies (mounted in the wing tips) or can I rely on the
>> aluminum airframe and pick up the tail light ground from the rear
>> fuselage and also put a wire between the wing structure and fuselage, to
>> assure no loss in the wing bolts, for the wing lights and strobes?
>The airframe is a good enough ground. Only concern is the corrossion caused
>by electric current (there should be information about this in the
>archieve).
This caveat has a very tiny support in the laws of
physics. IF a joint is likely to corrode due to any
chemical stress OTHER than flow of electrons through
a ground, then the stresses are increased by causing
a flow of electrons across the joint.
In actual practice, I've never seen it happen nor have
I found any other individual who has seen it happen and
properly indentified the physics that caused the problem.
The amount of time that any lighting or pitot heater is
turned ON compared to the total lifetime of an airframe
makes this a trivial concern.
>I participated on a workshop during Sun'n Fun last year. The guy told us,
>that there will be some corrosion when using the airframe as a ground, but
>it will be insignificant. The only ground cable that is really needed is
>from the starter (again, that was his opinion).
"Some" corrosion isn't a quantified statement. If he's
talking about stuff you might find with a microscope in
a poorly assembled joint then we can agree that "some"
corrosion will occur. If you've bolted everything together
werein all electrical and mechanical joints are gas tight
then no corrosion will occur . . . ever.
The strongest grounding concerns deal with voltage
drop due to poor ground pathway selection and dependence
upon mechanical joints for integrity of the electrical
system. Starter current and battery charging pathways
are the most critical because they are the highest currents
in the system (200A for some starters, 60A for lots of
alternators).
A bond strap between crankcase and a firewall ground
stud is a good thing. A healty wire connection between
battery minus and the same ground stud is another good
thing. Using this ground stud as the gathering point
for all electrical goodies behind the panel is a good
thing. If you've come this far, the use of airframe to
ground a few outlying components like nav lights, landing
light, pitot heat and strobes is a perfectly sensible
thing to do.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nippon-Dienso 50 AMP Alternator |
>
>I was told by a number of people that the problem with an internal regulator
>is that once they are running they cannot be shut down by removing the power
>from the regulator, this was not correct - pull the power from the regulator
>and the Alternator stops, I verified this on two different installations.
The "little" wire going into the back of most internally
regulated alternators is indeed a control wire that applies
a bias to transistors in the regulator to turn the alternator
on and off . . . this is a digital signal that comes out of
the engine's systems control computer so that the computer can
turn the alternator on after the engine is running well on a
cold morning . . . let it get going before loading it down
with the alternator.
If the regulator fails, it can create a direct connection from
field to the alternator's output terminal . . . the classic
runaway problem. Removing the ON command from the little wire
has no control over this failure mode. Hence our recommendation
for the external relay in series with the alternator's b-lead
show in wiring diagrams on our website.
>A local flying club had an Alternator failure on their C-172, the output
lead
>of the alternator shorted to the field lead. All the avionics got smoked
>along with a lot of wiring, luckily this happened on the ground. The circuit
>breaker did not trip and was a flush model so there was no way to stop the
>alternator :(
OV conditions generally will not trip the 60A breaker . . . an
ALL TOO COMMON misconception. That 60A breaker protects wires
only.
>Show me where I am wrong but I don't think the B&C regulator and over
voltage
>protection would have saved this?
No, it wouldn't. This airplane suffered from some pretty
harsh conditions and poor inspections. I'd guess that
it was NOT wired with tefzel wire either. I've heard of
this happening before where the field lead comes through
a common grommet with the alternator b-lead. This is another
reason why I like the b-lead to get an 80 amp fuse on the
panel so that the b-lead doesn't come through the firewall
with ANY wires, much less the field wire.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers and Fusible Links |
>Bob,
>I've followed this thread with interest and learned a lot from it. Thanks.
>Last night I was having a discussion with an A&P who suggested what might be
>an exception to the "fuses are better than breakers" theory. A big jet over
>Seattle was having trouble getting the gear down. Selecting gear down would
>throw the breaker every time. Apparantly the pilot got the gear to go down,
>by holding the breaker in. Perhaps a breaker would be better for the gear.
>On the other hand, perhaps the emergency gear handle (in our case a trusty
>sears socket wrench) is better than the fire risk.
>Any thoughts?
Better late than never . . . found this item languishing in
one of my to-do boxes.
I think this story is bogus. Breakers for airplanes cannot be
"held in" to keep the circuit closed. They might be repeatedly
reset with each action getting more and more gear out into
the breeze . . . given all of the redundancy built into air-
liners, I'd bet there are a lot of better ways to get the
gear down than to risk fire or other damage by poking breakers.
I have an article wherein I suggest that the pumps and motors
are the "seconday gear extension system" with lots of features
that makes it more convenient to use. The socket wrench or other
stone simple technology should be considered the "primary gear
extension system" where low parts count and independence from
all other systems on the airplane makes it the most likely to
work when you need it most.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery failure |
>i am considering a dual alternator, single battery electrical system, as
>shown in the aeroelectric drawings.
>
>is there a "weak link" only having one battery? in other words, is there a
>failure mode of the battery (or wiring) which would make the alternator(s)
>fail also? is it the same for PM alternators?
Back in not so good ol' days of flooded batteries, there
was a failure mode that would raise some concerns for single
battery, dual alternator ops . . . SHORTED cells. The
plates of flooded batteries as a matter of routine would
drop conductive flakes into an open space under the plates
(a sort of bilge where junk was stored). If the battery's
service was so long that the space was used up, trash
would short the plates of the cell together and turn a
12v battery into a 10v battery.
IF flooded batteries were maintained as we're all going to
maintain our RG batteries (replace battery when useful
capacity falls below useful electrical endurance with
respect to fuel aboard) then I suspect we'd see no more
shorted cell batteries even in flooded technology.
RG battery plates don't molt . . . shorted cell phenomon
is gone. With two alternators, battery capacity is moved
down a not in importance so you can run the battery longer
but I'd still try to get it out of the airplane when it's
no longer able to carry e-bus loads for at least a hour.
If you use the architecture shown in the latest article
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
you will note that the auxiliary alternator does not
tie to the battery via the battery contactor rather
it uses a dedicated control relay to gain access to the
battery. This means that even if the battery contactor
is lost (open wire, etc), the aux alt will work in
conjunction with the battery and e-bus alterate feed
path to keep the e-bus running indefinitely.
I've studied this drawing extensively and i've got other
folks looking at it too. At the moment, we can find
no single failure (except shorted cell in battery)
that would put a pilot into an uncomfortable position.
Use an RG battery, replace it regularly and this low
cost approach to an all electric airplane should serve
you well.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | We're digging out of the rubble . . . |
Our offices and shop have been in turmoil for the past
week. We've had a contractor in working on our basement walls
stabilizing them and fixing leaks. Everything is pulled out
from the walls and we've got boxes stacked everywhere! The
final inspection is today and we'll be putting things back into
working order as soon as we can get at it . . . leaving 6:15 am
tomorrow to do a weekend seminar in Oregon!
Dee and I will be working to catch up as many orders as we
can before we leave. It's going to be a little while before
we're back to normal as there's much "stuff" that has to
be put back where it belongs. I'll be taking a ton of e-mail
messages with me on the laptop and will try to catch up
on our list-server activities while we travel.
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | looking for software . . . |
Given that many of our brothers in aviation are also plugged
into cyber-products, I thought I would inquire on the lists
about recommendations for some shopping cart software.
I've looked at several packages . . . there are dozens
that e-mail a detailed and properly totaled order. Problem
is that it would be just as convenient if it were faxed to us;
we still have to re-keypunch data into the invoicing and
packing list.
Are any of you aware of an integrated package that ties
website orders to the office data base so that we don't
have to re-enter information already entered by the customer?
It's really easy to make mistakes during the transcription
process . . . Thanks!
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 1999 List of Contributors #2! |
Dear Listers,
Below is the final List of Contributors for 1999 as promised. Again, I
would like to thank everyone that made a generous contribution in 1999
to support the continued operation of these email Lists. Your support
directly makes the quality and quantity of this service possible.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
RV-4 Builder, #1763 - N442RV
=================== 1999 List of Contributors #2 ====================
Adamson, Arden
Allender, Patrick
Anonymous from MN
Asher, M.E.
Baxter, Rob
Bell, Doug
Bendure, Ryan
Bergh, David
Berrie, Robert
Blake, J.I.
Boucher, Michel
Bragg, Medford
Briegleb, Ross
Brietigam, Charles
Broomell, Glenn
Brusilow, Michael
Chatham, Robert
Clary, Buck
Coats, Lonnie
Cook, Craig - Golf Instruments Co.
Cooper, James
Cribb, William Jr.
Crosby, Harry
Dane, Bill Von
Dziewiontkoski, Bob
Ellenberger, Mike
Embree, Roger
Faatz, Mitch
Fasching, John
Gibbons, Robert
Glauser, David
Gold, Andy -Builder's Bookstore 10%
Gregory, Steve
Grenier, Raymond
Guarino, Michael
H., Harold - E.P.M.AV Corp
Hale, Brian
Hunt, Wallace
Johnston, Leroy
Jordon, Don
Killion, Clay
Klingmuller, Dr. L.M.
Magaw, David
Mains, Ralph
Maltby, Michael
Martin, Cliff - Martin Metal Fab
Mazataud, Hyun Sook
McBride, Duncan
McDonald, James
Mendenhall, Elbie - E.M Aviation
Mitchell, Duane
Morley, Harold
Peck, Phil
Pessel, Garnett
Rodebush, James
Ross, Jonathan
Schmidt, John
Scully, William
Smith, Steven
Spence, Stephen
Triff, Wes
Wagoner, Richard
Weaver, Brian
Wiegenstein, John
Wiley, Robert
Wilson, Donald
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Confusion Over "List of Contributors"... |
Hi Listers,
I'm really sorry for the confusion over the most recent posting of the
List of Contributors #2. List #2 contained only the contributor names
*since* the List #1 was posted. So, if you weren't on List #2, you were
likely on List #1. Below are URLs to each of the LOC #x postings.
Again, sorry for the confusion. I should have made it more clear in
the verbiage.
Thanks to everyone,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
List of Contributors #1 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
List of Contributors #2 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
============================================================================
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (Whoops) Confusion Over "List of Contributors"... |
>
>Okay, here are the *real* URLs. Sorry...
>
>
>Matt Dralle
>Email List Admin.
>
>
>============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
>
>
> List of Contributors #1 - 1999
> ------------------------------
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_
>of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
>
>
> List of Contributors #2 - 1999
> ------------------------------
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_
>of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
>
>============================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Re: (No, Really - Here are the URLs) Confusion Over "List of |
Contributors"...
Geeze, I can't seem to type today. Here are the *real*, *REAL* URLs.
Sorry for so many posts... Ack
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
List of Contributors #1 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
List of Contributors #2 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
============================================================================
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Weekend Seminar Schedule for 2000 |
Our seminar schedule for 2000 is begining to take shape.
Groton, CT is a firm date.
Ft. Worth (George and Becky Orndorff's hangar) will
be firm in a few days.
We're working on accomodations for Hillsboro, OR;
Chino, CA; and Livermore, CA for later in the summer.
See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Bob . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-beech ,
list-cessna ,
list-engines ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-piper ,
list-tailwind ,
list-seaplane ,
list-yak ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | wire lacing string |
Greetings to the List,
I have eight spools of the wire lacing string I told many of you about a
few weeks ago. If any of you are interested please call, leave a
detailed message, or send an e-mail (off List), include your VISA or
MASTER CARD number, expiration date of the card, your name, address, and
how many rolls you want. FIRST EIGHT THAT CONTACT ME GET THE SPOOLS OF
STRING. The spools of string are new and $12 ea. including shipping to
a US address. This is a very low price for this product.
What is this string anyway you ask!
It is string or lacing tape used to tie up wires into bundles. It is
the most light weight, and most inexpensive product for doing this job.
I have used this type of material extensively and I really like it.. It
is extremely fast to tie and use.-- Make a clove hitch around the
bundle, and then a square knot to finish. I think you will like it as
much as I do. It is self extinguishing polyester #MIL-T-43435B, Type II,
Finish C, Size 3. In short this is what is used most often for this job.
It is flat braided so it will not cut into or deform as badly as round
string. The finish of this material makes knots stay tied. The spools
are 500 yd. spools. Granted, a spool is enough to do many airplanes, but
your will find many uses for this stuff as I have. Or, sell what you
have left over to another builder when your are done.
Thanks
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811
gretz_aero(at)h2net.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | DFW seminar date set . . . |
Program date for George and Becky's hangar in Ft. Worth has been
set for June 3/4
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Malfunctioning contactor? |
>Does anyone know if low battery voltage will cause either the master or
>starter contactor (solenoid) to stick? That is, remain engaged when power
>is shut off. BOTH contactors appeared to stick during an engine start
>attempt. Seems like too much of a coincidence for both to malfunction at
>the same time. My battery voltage was low. I cannot see why this would
>happen, but did experience it in a system that has been working with no
>apparent previous problems. Thanks. Ivan Kaiser
>
Yes. In fact this is the most likely scenario for sticking.
Continuous duty contactors have two springs that must be
overcome by battery voltage. The first is a low tension
spring that provides about 0.1" of lift to open the contacts.
A second spring is much higher force and becomes compressed
only after the contactor's solenoid core has seated the
contacts but about 0.03" short of bottoming out. The magnetic
pull produced by the solenoid core rises sharply as it bottoms
out providing the force needed to compress the second stage
spring and insure a low resistance contact.
If the battery voltage is too low, the contactor will close
but the second stage spring won't get compressed. The resulting
loss of contact pressure is conducive to burning and/or
welding of the contacts.
Many builders use the same class of contactor (Continuous
Duty) for starting and with fair success . . . intermittant
duty contactors have much higher initial and final actuation
forces and are much less likely to weld under low battery
conditions.
Those of you interested in seeing the internal workings of
a continuous duty contactor up close are invited to peek
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/c1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/c2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/c3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/c4.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Split switches |
>> Here's a simple one for ya. I have been looking for listings on the split
>> Main Power switch (battery/altenator). I find it listed in Aircraft
>Spruce and Wicks catalog, says Cessna type. Bob's webb site doesn't list
any. Is
>> that what you guys have been using, or is there a better one, or way, and
>> available where?
The whole concept behind the "split rocker switch" for DC power
master was created at Cessna about 1965 when the switch from
generators to alternators was in full swing. Generators would
run self-excited and did not need a battery on line to be a useful
source of power. The battery master and generator switches
could be separate, unrelated controls.
Not so the alternator. Alternators would not come on line by
themselves nor were they particularly stable without a battery.
We needed a way to insure that the alternator would never be
on by itself but still allow the battery to be on by itself.
The style of switches used in Cessnas and most other singles
was evolving to rockers so the interlocked split rocker switch was
born. Over the decades, that switch has been endowed with some
sort of mystical properties. I've seen hundreds of airplanes
with every other kind of control switch where the red split
rocker holds court from a prominant place on the panel looking
like no other switch in the airplane.
I personally object to rocker switches because they need a
rectangular hole, they're style critical with respect to the
original manufacturer (you can only replace the thing with
exactly the same brand) and much more labor intensive to install.
Further, in decades since the split rocker was birthed, RG
battery performance for cranking engines has totally
overshadowed an earlier requirement for relieving as much
load on the battery as possible during cranking.
Hence, our present recommendations for battery and alternator
control is to use the simpler, less expensive and more widely
manufactured 2-pole rocker switch to bring battery and
alternator OFF and ON together. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z8_0299.pdf
All of our power distribution concepts use crowbar ov
protection which suggests use of a breaker rather than
fuse for field supply. If this is a pullable breaker,
then the very rare cases where an alternator needs to
be off line while only the battery is on can be accomodated
by pulling the breaker. That's why we don't offer
this device from our website catalog.
For those interested in independent yet interlocked
toggle switch control of the alternator could consider
a switch like our S700-2-10 that can be wired so that
down is both OFF, mid position is battery only ON, and
upper position is both ON.
In any case, I cannot recommend the split rocker found
in almost everybody's electrical parts catalog unless
you're planning to use the same brand and style of
rocker switch for all other applications and you'd like
your panel to take on the look of a 1965 Cessna . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
When our new shopping cart software goes on line,
we'll feature many of B&C's fine products for
aircraft. In the mean time, you may download
B&C's price list through our present website
catalog at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator fuse location |
>I know you extroll the virtues of getting the main fuse/breaker off the
>panel to reduce noise in the system. I guess I don't understand how merely
>moving its location will do this.
>Looking at your wiring diagram the alternator output is connected to the hot
>side of the starter contactor and then through the master contactor. The
>feed then goes to the battery. Great except the main fuse block feed is
>connected at the same battery terminal. Isn't this the same electrically as
>running the feed to the main fuse block and then connecting to the battery?
Noises generated by the alternator are in form of an
AC ripple voltage that remains on the output after
power passes through the rectifier diode array. This
is a signeal with a voltage value of approx 700 mv peak to
peak but and a current capability equal to 5% of
the alternator's present load. . . 40A DC output
is accompanied by 2A of pk-pk ripple noise. This is
why ground-loop noise goes UP as loads on the alternator
are increased.
The best filter in the airplane is the battery. Especially
if it's an RG battery with a very low internal impedance
(on the order of 8 milliohms). The 2A pk-pk ripple
current impressed across 8 milliohms is only 16
pk-pk. Obviously, connecting the alternator directly
to the battery terminals is the way to go . . . indeed
that's what I show in the Electric Panel on a Budget
article on our website.
Any intervening wires between the battery and the
alternator increases the apparent impedance of the
battery and reduces its effectiveness as a filter.
So, the goal is to make the shortest possible, fatwire
connections between battery and alternator b-terminal
without taking it past the main bus!
The goal is to reduce the amount of wire shared by
both the alternator and mainbus feedline and to make
the connections between battery and alternator as
short and low a resistance as practical. Remember,
we're talking millohms here and every wire and joint
in the wire adds its little bit of ripple-noise amplifying
resistance.
The single point ground system we recommend is used to
get as much of the airframe's resistance out of crictical
systems power pathways. Moving the alternator b-lead
to the starter contactor on the firewall is doing the
same things for the hot side of the power system as
we do for the ground side.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Request for trim switch recommendation . . . |
Sorry to bother everyone with this but the following message came
in through our website catalog order form. The individual who
sent it didn't fill out any return data like name and email
address:
> I have been looking for a "reasonable" source for a rocker switch to use
>for electric trim - momentary on-off-on . like Piper uses for its electric
>trim - mounted on the yoke. Do you have (or know) of how I can get ahold of
>a similar switch? Thank You in advance.
If anyone on this list is "guilty", I'd be pleased to advise . . .
fess up now . . . I won't tell . . . reply directly
to nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Split switches |
<3.0.6.32.20000201231924.008d04b0(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Bob, Regarding your idea that the switches should match. . . I would suggest
>that there are some switches in the cockpit that should not match, and I
>think the master/alt switch is one of them. When I look at the overhead
>panel of the MD80 I fly at work, I see a myriad of different switch types.
>Some twist, some toggle, some have round heads, some flat. A couple even
>have a little row of "landing lights" fixed to their toggle. All this is
>done for a reason. . . To help differentiate one from another at a glance.
>Now the Kitfox certainly has fewer switches to worry about, but I would
>argue that the MASTER switch should stand out (maybe this is why Cessna and
>Piper paint it red). Whether it's because I want to shut everything down
>quickly prior to a deadstick landing, or just to have it stand out in hopes
>that I don't walk off and leave it on (never happened to me personally, but
>I've heard. . . ), I see no reason, aesthetics aside, it should look like
>the others.
>
>Okay, I guess I could paint your switch red, but I still think mine looks
>pretty cool.
Inadvertent switch operation is a factor we'll be addressing
in the latest chapter to the book which I'm writing now. The
easiest way to deal with this is in panel layout. Consider
a single row of switches with a layout like l-mag, r-mag/start,
dc power master, alt field breaker, e-bus alt feed (or aux
dc power master, aux alt field breaker (if used) fuel boost/prime,
pitot heat, landing/taxi lts, nav lights, strobes.
When one is interested in killing everything in a hurry, the
ship is made cold with the switches at the far left. Switches
at the right are grouped in order of operation. Strobes on
first. If it's dark, nav lites next, other exterior lights
next. There's a buffer between power control switches and
appliance switches with controls where inadvertent selection
doesn't represent an immediate concern.
One can put little plastic booties over switches to color
code them. The recomendation for "sameness" is driven by
several considerations. Low cost, ease of replacment (one
nut and a few fast-ons), ease of initial fabrication,
mutliple suppliers for the same switch. I'm trying to
break the old paradigms where we EXPECT things on airplanes
to be expensive to buy (unique, unsubstitutable, type
certificated), expensive to replace (only your friendly $40/hr
certified wrench twister is allowed to do it), and carved
in stone by traditional-flyer-think that starts with
us as pilots and becomes more viscous as you move up the
ladder toward Jane Garvey's office.
One of the reasons that the future of single engine airplanes
is so bright is that amateur built aircraft already dominate
the modern fleet and will soon dominate the total fleet.
We can only improve on that by increasing people's comfort
level with application of critical review to their own airplane
based on how they plan to use it and without the "assistance"
of government or traditionalists. Split-second, bad decision
scenarios exaserbated by panel ergonomics has always been
a heavy tool wielded by doom-sayers amoungst us. In fact,
the vast majority of injury and death in airplanes comes from
poor pilotage followed by sudden onset of situations from
which there is no escape. The numbers of folk that met
their demise cause they hit the wrong switch while on
short final to a big rock are, I suggest, very tiny if
indeed they even exist.
Which brings up another point I've been pondering with
respect to crashworthiness. An engineer I work with at
Raytheon used to do accident investigations. He noted in
passing one day that airplanes in which the battery
was NOT ejected from the wreckage often caught fire.
Not once in his experiece did he see an airplane burn
if the battery was thrown out from the wreckage. We got
to talking about a g-switch in the battery master contactor
control circuit. Then I asked him, had the airplanes
NOT burned, was the crash such that anyone MIGHT have
gotten out. He thought for a time and said "no."
When you hit the mountainside, pull the wings off,
ice-up and stall, run out of gas, or hit another airplnae,
I'll suggest that the position of your switches when
you hit the ground is insignificant. We are in far
greater danger from failures of pilot judgment,
inattention and skills than from anything mechanical
or ergonomic.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sticking contactors |
>It comes up again - the battery condition is "important" - if that is strong
>enough.
You bet it is . . .
>I have mentioned it before and would like to do so again.
>
>How do use simple fellows know that the battery is not up to it? Simply, the
>first most of us know is that the battery won't start the engine. By then I
>guess it's a bit late????
True. This is why the battery should be given the same
kind of attention in terms of preventative maintenance as
other things in the airplane. For example, we replace oil and
filters based on a schedule . . . not because the engine is at
risk of damage if the commodity is used a few hours longer
but because "it's time to renew it to INSURE ongoing airworthiness."
We replace tires not when they won't stay round any more but when
the tread wear falls below a certain point.
>Any plan to give "us" an article on battery care and covering vital signs as
>to health, and when it's at it's "use by" date? A discussion on voltmeters v
>ammeters might be helpful - I for one, as a layman, am confused by many
>learned comments.
It can be pretty simple. You have two choices:
(1) build and use the battery capacity tester described in an
article on my website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf
or
(2) do periodic replacment of a battery based on time just like
you do oil and air filters. Assuming that you plan to use
the best kind of battery you can buy (recombinant gas) then
every two years for the average day/vfr airplane is probably
a good benchmark. For airplanes flown long cross-country at
night or IFR might want to look at yearly replacment. I've
suggested that some airplanes which benefit from dual battery
installations get a new battery in the main slot and move the
main battery to the aux slot yearly. For most folk this is
a 60-75 dollar expense that is trivial compared to other
operating costs of the airplane. If one objects to the
"easy" methodology, then see suggestion (1).
Variations on the theme arise when the battery has been
inadvertently discharged . . . and sets for a long period
of time (left the master switch on). Then a capacity test
is in order. If the battery seems to be getting weaker in
terms of cranking the engine, then a capacity test is in order.
An accurate voltmeter that indicates an operating bus voltage
no less than 13.8 and no greater than 14.6 will assure you
that the battery is being maintained by ship's alternator.
RG batteries do not need attention for long term (over
winter storage). Put away charged, they're good for a year
or more with no attention. Put away discharged and they're
recycle material when you come back.
Pay just a little more attention to battery selection and
condition as described above and the problem of sticking
contactors will be a long way down on your list of concerns.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panasonic Batteries |
>This is a question for Bob Nuckolls. Are the Panasonic sealed lead acid
>batteries that are for sale in the Digi Key catalogue suitable for aircraft
>use, and are these RG batteries?
Yes and yes. For engine cranking you need to pick a product that will
allow you to draw hundreds of amps from the battery . . . fast-on tabs
are just too small. There are gobs of places to buy batteries perfectly
suited to light aircraft. Here are just a few:
Powersonic: PS-12180
http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html
Hawker: Check out the first 6 batteries on this page . . .
http://www.hepi.com/products/genesis/genprod.htm
Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd
1217p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
Yuasa-Exide: Check out the NP18-12B at this site . . .
http://www.yuasa-exide.com/np-prod.html
Handle these like any other lead-acid battery. Bus volts no
less than 13.8 - 14.2 is about ideal - no more than 14.6
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panasonic Batteries |
>This is a question for Bob Nuckolls. Are the Panasonic sealed lead acid
>batteries that are for sale in the Digi Key catalogue suitable for aircraft
>use, and are these RG batteries?
Yes and yes. For engine cranking you need to pick a product that will
allow you to draw hundreds of amps from the battery . . . fast-on tabs
are just too small. There are gobs of places to buy batteries perfectly
suited to light aircraft. Here are just a few:
Powersonic: PS-12180
http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html
Hawker: Check out the first 6 batteries on this page . . .
http://www.hepi.com/products/genesis/genprod.htm
Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd
1217p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
Yuasa-Exide: Check out the NP18-12B at this site . . .
http://www.yuasa-exide.com/np-prod.html
Handle these like any other lead-acid battery. Bus volts no
less than 13.8 - 14.2 is about ideal - no more than 14.6
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Scheibinger" <joe(at)thesurf.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 02/05/00 |
Please Post this message:
Dear Friends,
I am looking for a Long Eze kit or project in any stage of completion. I
would also be interested in a used flying plane at a reasonable price. You
can call me at 920-929-9598 or E-mail me at joe(at)kfiz.com.
Joe Scheibinger
N. 9126 Lakeshore Drive
Van Dyne, WI 54979
joe(at)thesurf.com / 920-929-9598
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Another neat idea and How To. |
Another easy to do idea!
AAMR/AirCore Wire
Marker http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page94.html
John @AAMR/AirCore
Best regards,
John @AAMR/AirCore
From: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Full-name: AAMRELECTR
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:40:53 EST
Subject: Another neat idea and How To.
They're coming fast and furious...Another easy to do idea!
AAMR/AirCore Wire
Marker http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page94.html
John @AAMR/AirCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-beech ,
list-cessna ,
list-engines ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-homebuilt ,
list-lancair ,
list-piper ,
list-rocket ,
list-sailplane ,
list-seaplane ,
list-tailwind ,
list-ultralight ,
list-warbird ,
list-yak ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | [Fwd: RV-List: Aeroelectric.com] |
I wanted to pass this on to all of you.
Warren Gretz
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:24:22 -0700
From: Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroelectric.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Warren Gretz
I just talked to Bob yesterday and asked him if his internet host/provider
has a problem. They do. He said he has not been able to do anything since
last Thursday. Today, Monday he was going to seek out a new provider that
hopefully will provide continous service. It may be a few more days, but he
will be back.
Warren Gretz
Fran Malczynski wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Fran Malczynski"
>
> Has any body else had a problem connecting to "Electric Bob's" website? I
> printed off a document on it last week and haven't been able to connect
> since.
>
> Fran Malczynski
> RV6 (fuse)
> Olcott, NY
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Electrical How To (s) |
Hello Listers:
We have a fairly extensive How Page for Electrical Wiring for Aviation Home
Builders.
It is http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page44.html or click here. HOW TO Site Index
If you've already come by please ignore this, if not it's probably worth a
visit.
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batt contactor |
Hi Bob, I notice on your wiring schematics the
inclusion of a diode between the large + and small
terminals on the contactor.
What is the reason for this and what type of diode is it.
John,
The solenoid coil that provides a force to close
the contactor is an "inductive" load capable of
storing electrical energy. The energy is dumped back
into the system in the form of a high voltage
spike when the switch that controls the contactor
is opened. You'll see a diode across the coil
terminals of all contactors in our diagrams. Take
a peek at the photograph on our website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
This shows how we install the diode on contactors we
sell that do not have them built in. The intermittant
duty starter contactors we sell have this diode
built in.
Just about any diode rectifier will work. 1N4000 series
devices are electrically capable of doing the job. The
diode you see in my photo is a 1N5400 series device
selected because it's mechanically more robust.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Another How To for Electrical |
Hello Listers:
A How To mount wires and cables to stop chafing. Another Secure Wires
"How To Page" http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page98.html
Best regards,
John AAMR/AirCore/Mari
neCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Free Tool Bag with order |
We are giving away a nice Boeing tool bag with any $50.00 order until we run
out of bags.
Please go to our Home Page to link to the offer page.
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/index.html AAMR/AirCore/MarineCore
Best regards,
John @AAMR/AirCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Wiring Question |
>I am planning to install Aeroflash nav/strobes, Duckworth landing lights,
>and a Gretz heated pitot tube in the wings. Is there an accepted method
>for attaching to the frame for the ground return. In other words, should I
>do something like drilling and tapping a #4 or#6 screw to the spar and
>attach the ground wires to that?
Would suggest #8 is smallest and #10 is better. Use PIDG terminal
with appropriate hole for the wire you're going to ground.
Buff area of contact between terminal and airframe with VERY
fine sandpaper. Fasten to the airframe and tighten a #8 screw
to 15 in-lb. The reason you want #8 or bigger is that the smaller
screws don't have enough "meat" in their cores to force a
gas tight joint between the airframe and the mating surface
of the terminal.
Ground failures are almost always traceable to inadequate
mate up force when the joint was fabricated. Moisture
gets into space between terminal and airframe . . . they
ARE dissimilar metals after all. Add the ravages of time
and electron flow and eventually the joint fails. Get
it tight enough the first time and it will still be good
the day your airplane gets scrapped.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: What's a PIDG terminal |
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
>
>> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>...
>> Would suggest #8 is smallest and #10 is better. Use PIDG terminal
>> with appropriate hole for the wire you're going to ground.
>> Buff area of contact between terminal and airframe with VERY
>
>... What is a PIDG terminal?
That's an acronym for PreInsulated Diamon Grip, an AMP,
Incorporated trade name. When I speak of PIDG style
terminals, I'm talking about the better grade of terminal
with the metal liners inside the plastic insulation
grips. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Wiring Question |
>Thank you for your reply. Is it permissible to put more than one PIDG
>terminal under a grounding screw? Or perhaps several wires crimped in one
>terminal?
Yes and Yes . . . you can stack perhaps up to half dozen
terminals on a stud. No problems from an electrical perspective
but take care lest you stack multiple critical systems on the
same stud which becomes single point of failure for all.
You can fill up the wire grip volume of a terminal with more
than one strand of wire. For example, a red PIDG terminal
will accept two 22AWG wires. A blue PIDG will take three
22AWG wires or two 20AWG wires.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
n a message dated 2/12/00 9:02:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gfcorriv(at)total.net writes:
> ... What is a PIDG terminal?
>
> Thanks,
> Grant Corriveau
Hi Grant PIDG stands for Pre-insulated Diamond Grip. It's an AMP term for a
double crimp terminal that has a diamond pattern inside the barrel where it
crimps onto the bare strands of wire. We carry the AMP and Molex ( Molex uses
ovals and dots instead of diamonds). If you are interested in seeing why
double crimps are the best to use click here How to-Why Not.
This pages shows the make up of a double crimp connector and how to crimp
them.
Best regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
Best regards,
John @AAMR/AirCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Internet Explorer and List Subscription Page Problem... |
Listers,
I have just identified a problem between any version of Microsoft's
Internet Explorer and the email List Subscription Form found at
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Please note that this problem
*ONLY* affects users of Internet Explorer! Netscape users are
*not* affected by the issue. Users of Internet Explorer should
use the Netscape browser for now until a work around can be
developed.
IMPORTANT:
If you have tried to subscribe *or* unsubscribe from any of the
following email lists using *Internet Explorer* since the announcement of
the 7 new Email Lists this past weekend, your request was not properly
received and you should resubmit the request using the Netscape
Browser, or wait until a solution for the problem with Internet Explorer
is completed. The Lists affected by the Internet Explorer issue are:
RVCanada-List
RVEurope-List
Skymaster-List
SmithMini-List
Sonerai-List
Tailwind-List
Please note that the Netscape Browser *IS NOT* affected by this problem
and all lists can be subscribed to and unsubscribed from without a
problem.
I will post a message to the Lists when I have come up with a solution
to this problem.
Sorry for the inconvenience,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New ATC Fuse Block w/Rings |
Would you like to see a way to convert an ATC Fuse Block with Push On Tabs,
to use RINGS? AAMR/A
irCore Fuse Block With Rings Or
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page101.html
Best regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Internet Explorer and List Subscription Page Problem..." (Feb 15, 10:19am)
| Subject: | Re: Web Subscription Page Operation for Internet Explorer Restored... |
Dear Listers,
I have rewritten the web page and CGI code for processing List
Subscription Requests to now be more compatible with command line
limitations of Microsoft's Internet Explorer and some very
old versions of Netscape. The page seems to be working fine
now on whatever browser I try. Please feel free to resume
your normal List Subscription habits.
The URL is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
>--------------
>
>
>Listers,
>
>I have just identified a problem between any version of Microsoft's
>Internet Explorer and the email List Subscription Form found at
>http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Please note that this problem
>*ONLY* affects users of Internet Explorer! Netscape users are
>*not* affected by the issue. Users of Internet Explorer should
>use the Netscape browser for now until a work around can be
>developed.
>
>IMPORTANT:
>
>If you have tried to subscribe *or* unsubscribe from any of the
>following email lists using *Internet Explorer* since the announcement of
>the 7 new Email Lists this past weekend, your request was not properly
>received and you should resubmit the request using the Netscape
>Browser, or wait until a solution for the problem with Internet Explorer
>is completed. The Lists affected by the Internet Explorer issue are:
>
> RVCanada-List
> RVEurope-List
> Sailplane-List
> Seaplane-List
> Skymaster-List
> SmithMini-List
> Sonerai-List
> Tailwind-List
> Ultralight-List
> Warbird-List
> Yak-List
> Zenith-List
>
>
>Please note that the Netscape Browser *IS NOT* affected by this problem
>and all lists can be subscribed to and unsubscribed from without a
>problem.
>
>I will post a message to the Lists when I have come up with a solution
>to this problem.
>
>Sorry for the inconvenience,
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics Email List Admin.
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How To convert Fuse Blocks to RINGS |
>>Would you like to see a way to convert an ATC Fuse Block with Push On Tabs,
>>to use RINGS?
>>AAMR/AirCore Fuse Block With Rings
>
Please don't do this folks. There is no basis either
in 30+ years experience on aircraft (Cessna rocker
switches) nor in the physics of this wiring technology
to shy away from Fast-Ons . . . see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/faston3.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimensions, etc |
Electric Bob, I enjoy your "lessons" on the Rocket List
and subscribe to the "connection".
Thank you sir!
I built a RV4 in the '80's using CB's & copper strips for
busses. I like your fuse panel ideas and would like to mount
2- 10 fuse blocks. I don't know the dimensions or how to
mount them in a Rocket panel. Hinged panel? Could you give
me some suggestions?
Dimensions and other data on the fuse blocks can be
viewed at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/ckrtprot/ckrtprot.html#fuseblock
I'd mount fuseblocks for convenient access for maintenance
activities on the ground. A number of folk have reported
success with various hinged panels . . . I'm not familiar
with or a champion of any particular best way. I'd ask
around the RV-list . . . lots of folk have installed the
fuse blocks on RVs . . .
On Fig. Z-2. With the "Ford " regulator and your crowbar OV,
where does that "Lo V warn" on the main buss go to?
If you don't use a B&C regulator with an active low
volts warning built in, you should provide some alternative.
The long promised LV warning module will show up in
our catalog pretty soon.
Also what alt can I use? I know the B&C products. Great, but kinda
pricey.
. . . but probably the first and last alternator you'll put
on your airplane. In 1500 to 2000 shipments over last
8 or so years, they have yet to hear of or receive their first
return for wearout or failure.
Any others you can suggest? A friend used a mid 80's Chev Sprint
alt w/built in reg and says it works fine.
Lots alternators 'work fine' for awhile. Even certified ones.
Some run lots longer than others. As a general rule however,
I'd stick to alternators with the ND logo on the back. These
are Nipon_Dienso products with exemplary demonstrated service
in aircraft. If you can get one converted to external regulator
and have the rotor precision balanced, all the better.
I read you warning about built in reg's tho.
It is possible and practical to put ov protection on an
alternator with built in regualator. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuse Block Dimensions |
New page showing dimensions of this 10 gang fuse block sold by AAMR and Aero
Electric. Aero Electric
Fuse Block
Dimensions
Best regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How To convert Fuse Blocks to RINGS |
> . . .message posted by: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
>
>>In a message dated 2/19/00 10:34:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>>
>> Please don't do this folks. There is no basis either
>> in 30+ years experience on aircraft (Cessna rocker
>> switches) nor in the physics of this wiring technology
>> to shy away from Fast-Ons . . . see:
>Bob:
>I was at the airport in Ellensburg Washington calling on a FOB certified
>aircraft mechanic who was working on a Cessna set of rocker switches in a
>panel.
>
>And as has been true with all the APs I've called on in my capacity with AMP
>and with another company selling Mil Spec Aircraft Rated connectors. His
>couldn't curse those things enough as to what a poor and dangerous choice
>they were for aircraft! His experience...not mine.
Experience or opinion? What were the prevailing conditions that produced
any failures he may have witnessed? Were they conditions that might have
pushed ANY terminal to failure? I've heard many a derogatory remark
about fast-ons, some from folk with a long history aircraft. We have
to insist on knowing the physics behind their opinion or it doesn't
account for much. My hero C.F. Kettering said, "You can know a lot
and yet understand nothing."
If you have reason to discount the fast-on as it applies to the fuse
holders, then you have reason to discount the entire fuse holder.
The same technology is used inside the holder to retain fuses as that
which is used to attach wires to the holder's tabs.
>I sold him some Amp #640917 and #640903 Fastons. Since his regular supplier
>Aircraft parts supplier did not and would not carry this item for usage on
>aircraft.
Again, by what argument of fact does the supplier refuse to carry a
product . . . and was he making his decision based on what he sees
in hardware stores (soft copper, plasti-grip clones) or on PIDG
devices or equal?
>I think we need to look at the generic name of this item "Push Ons...and if
>it will Push On will Pull Off? As I said on the page. Is it hard to come
off,
>YES...Is it impossible that they will come off...NO.
Have you read the piece I published on fast-ons? If your aircraft
is subjected to 1/10th the g-loading required to dislodge one of these
terminals, I'll suggest that loose wiring is the least of your
worries. The last fast-on failure I was told about on a Cessna
rocker was where the pitot-heat switch suffered severe meltdown.
The mechanic thought it was fast-on terminal failure which was
was indeed loose . . . until he took the switch apart and found
badly fried contacts and charing internal to the switch housing
. . . the switch failure killed the fast-on, not the other way
around.
>As usual your opinion is welcome and highly respected. But I really think it
>would be better for you and more informative for us if you addressed from
>what you see wrong with the idea of substituting rings for Push On if it's
an
>easy fix.
>I am not telling folks to "shy away from Fast-Ons", but I am saying there is
>another choice for using ATC Fuse Blocks...Which are a really good simple
>idea. . . . for me I'd rather error on the side of safety.
How is it safer? The joint is now process sensitive to the installer's
"feel" for tightening. You've substituted a threaded fastener with a
definite propensity for loosening under vibration while quality
fast-ons dig in deeper under vibration. You have to be extra careful
not to subject the fuseholder's tabs to mate-up forces (twisting) it
was not designed for . . . if you use metal locknuts, the risk of
damage is still greater.
>Also folks might give AMP a call at 1-800-522-6752 take Que #2 for techical
>service and ask them if the two AMP part #s shown above are spec'd by AMP to
>use on aircraft and then ask them if their rings # 8-36150-1 and # 8-320619-1
> . . .
A tech rep for any company would be foolish to either recommend or
discourage the use of his/her product on "aircraft" or any other
non-quantified application. They should be prepared to offer test
results that qualify their product to some specification but it's
ALWAYS up to the system designer to determine if the intended
use falls inside those criteria. The terms "aircraft quality" and
"suitable for use on aircraft" are meaningless and fraught with
hazard for those who have faith in them.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Re: How To convert Fuse Blocks to RINGS |
In a message dated 2/20/00 3:09:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
> My hero C.F. Kettering said, "You can know a lot
> and yet understand nothing."
Bob:
Could you please get a little more personnel with your attack your message is
quite not clear.
I really think this is a waste of time and of this fine set of lists that we
have to voice our many and varied opinions on. There is along way between a
lively discussion and this level of personnel attack that you done to me
twice now.
So you win I give up!
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: Grounding to airframe . . . |
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "tom tiedman"
>
>I'm wondering if a product like 'alnox' could be used between the electrical
>terminal and the aircraft structure to eliminate corrosion. We use it in
>electrical construction all the time where aluminum conductors terminate at
>lugs in various panels. It is a dark grey electrically conductive paste,
>that we spread all over the bare aluminum end of the conductor before
>inserting it into the lug (lugs may or may not be made of aluminum). It
>keeps the aluminum wire and the lugs from corroding. You could smear a dab
>of it on the side of the terminal that touches the aircraft structure and
>fasten down the terminal. Readily available at any electrical supply house
>worth its salt. I believe their is another brand of the same corrosion
>proofing paste known as 'noalox' available also if memory serves me
>correctly. Tom
It wouldn't hurt. Consider the following:
K
Ba
Sr
Ca
Na
Mg
A (Aluminum)
Mn
Z (Zinc)
Cr
Fe (Iron)
Cd (Cadmium)
Co
Ni (Nickle)
Sn (Tin)
Pb (Lead)
--H-- (Hydrogen)
Sb
As
Bi
Cu (Copper)
Hg (Mercury)
Ag (Silver)
Pd
Pt
Au (Gold)
This is a ranking of the elements in accordance with their
electromotive potential with respect to Hydrogen. The usefulness
of this table is to illustrate the tendency of two materials
to react in each other's presence while in metalic connection
(electrons can flow from one material to the other) and moisture
(atoms can become active in a liquid and combine with other
stuff - like oxygen and in essence rust).
The further apart the two materials are in the table
the more antagonistic they are to each other. Note that aluminum
is quite far removed from copper. Note further that tin is
between the two antagonists. By coating the copper terminals
with a layer of tin plating, the tin provides a buffer
between the aluminum and copper to mitigate their anti-social
tendencies.
"Noalox" and similar products provide some moisture barrier
in the vicinity of a dissimilar metals joint to reduce the
rate of corrosion.
A terminal bolted down to the airframe would probably benefit
from a variety of moisture barriers such as silicon grease,
Vasaline, Noalox or even a coat of paint. If you live in a
humid region of the country, especially coastal regions where
the moisture can contain salt, a little judicious moisture
proofing wouldn't hurt.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How To convert Fuse Blocks to RINGS |
>In a message dated 2/20/00 2:23:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
>> My hero C.F. Kettering said, "You can know a lot
>> and yet understand nothing."
>
>Bob: I gave up trying to know everything along time ago, it was way to much
>work...how about you?
>
>Regards,
>John
John, My apologies sir if you thought the Kettering quote was
directed at you. My intention was to point out the virtual
ocean of knowledge in which we are immersed. There are thousands
of our fellow citizens who dip from this ocean and splash it
around, not the least of which are "certified mechanics" and
"degreed engineers".
I used to cross paths with a local expert witness in the accident
invesigation business who was a driving school instructor after
having retired from 20+ years as a highway patrolman. His credential
for getting on the witness stand was for having "seen and investigated
tons of accidents." We used to call him "20g Stackley" . . . no
matter how the vehicles behaved or the circumstances of the
collision, an acceleration value of 20g's showed up in the calculations
for EVERY case. He was not only incompetent but could be shown to
lie a lot too . . . none-the-less he enjoyed a pretty successful
career in local courts. We can find plenty of grey-beards roaming
the confines of our airports who are no better at understanding
the physics of what they do than trooper Stackley was.
My fondest wishes for these discussions is to discover the physics
of our art and share the knowledge with the most ludid explanations
we can devise. I was not shucking rocks at you my friend and I truly
regret that it came across in that manner.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Re: How To convert Fuse Blocks to RINGS |
In a message dated 2/21/00 7:40:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Den"
Works for me Brian, thanks for your thoughts.
This thread has certainly drawn some interesting responses and a lot of
thought from the "Lists" both on List and off List.
I don't really think there is only ONE answer and really think that all
points of view need to be expressed freely and thought about when it comes to
being safely airborne.
So everybody keep that gray matter working and open to for input and out put.
There's a Red Green quote in here but due to a senior moment I can't recall
it.
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: fuses |
In a message dated 2/22/00 8:24:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Glen_Worstell(at)notes.seagate.com writes:
> My solution was to make a fuse panel that is mounted
> horizontally below the instrument panel. It is possible
> to change a fuse in flight, but not easy.
Hi Glen:
AAMR/AirCore-Bob
Haan's Fuse Set up. or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page89.html
Question: Are you looking for a separate common for each fuse? Any particular
reason why? And we have a unit that will meet the requirement but it not on
our site as of yet. It's a stackable that can be built up to as many fuses as
you need. I'll see if I can some photos up if you're interested.
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT Lead Length |
>
>Bob,
>
>I posted this basic question to the RV-list and got no response...
Sorry, I must have missed it. I scan through about 300 pieces
of list-server traffic a day looking for items on which I can
be helpful . . . they slip by from time to time. . .
>I have a single cylinder CHT system. I'd like to buy 3 more thermocouples
>and run four thermocouples to a 4 way switch, then through a ~6" wire to the
>gauge.
>
>I usually see dire warnings about changing the length of the thermocouple
>leads. What's the scoop?
Thermocouple lead length is critical only for the old, self-powered
termocouple instruments of WWII vintage. Many of these instruments
had accessory resistors mounted external to the instrument so that
the installer could change the lead length and then recompensate
using the external resistor. ANY electronic instrument that reads
thermocouples is not so crippled. You can get a short tutorial
on thermocouples at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
>Also, IF I can't do it that way, could I determine a baseline with a CHT
>probe installed per plans, write down those readings, then hook up the
>(innacurate?) 4 cht system with the switch to see relative differences for
>the purpose of balancing CHT's through baffle mod's? After balancing the
>temps, I could go back to the one CHT system.
It's both practical and not too difficult to put a two pole,
4 position switch in your thermocouple pathways following the
guidlines in the above article. To make the termocouple wires
solderable with ordinary tin-lead solder for switch connections
you need to first "tin" the ends with silver solder. The silver
solder will make the thermocouple alloy solderable with ordinary
materials at more benign temperatures friendly to the rotary
switch.
There are commercial, off the shelf thermocouple switches that
allow you to simply strip the wire and capture it under a screw
driven clamp. Most of these are bulky ol' hogs . . . not terribly
friendly to a modern, tightly spaced lightplane panel.
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Kyle Boatright
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-aerobatic ,
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-beech ,
list-cessna ,
list-engines ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-homebuilt ,
list-lancair ,
list-piper ,
list-rocket ,
list-rvcanada ,
list-seaplane ,
list-tailwind ,
list-warbird ,
list-yak ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | New Gretz Aero website! |
Greetings to all,
I am glad to announce that my new webpage is up and running. If you
would like to see the aircraft products I offer, and the information I
provide on options for equipment installed on aircraft, you may want to
check out my website. Be sure to bookmark this site as it will continue
to grow.
The webpage address is:
http://www.gretzaero.com
I hope you find it interesting.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: COZY: Re: CHT Lead Length |
t.au>
>I have a Rocky Mountains engine monitor and plan to set it up to monitor all
>four cht's and egt's. An electronics savvy friend of mine modified a video
>switching/sequencing kit which has 8 small relays so that I could take 8
>thermocouples and drive them through to the monitor and it would cycle
>through each one in turn (with adjustable delay set by a potentiometer).
>I'm just about to install it now. Would you anticipate any problems with
>this set-up?
Can't tell. I think there's a risk that it will not. Video is
generally carried on coaxial cable with all signals sharing
a common ground via chassis connections and shielding. Switching
in this product may well be carried out in manner I've depicted
in Figure 14-7A of the thermocouple article found at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
For error free switching of thermocouples, you need two pole
switching with resonable care to to exactly the same thing to
both sides of the thermocouple path to avoid introduction
of un-compensated new thermocouples that cause error.
>Can I mount it above the radio stack or should I put it
>further away from the panel to avoid any noise getting into the audio
>system?
Thermocouple wiring carries no noise . . . it may be routed
with other wires and close to potential noise victims.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glang007(at)aol.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Terry Coles RV Photo |
Lister:
I just put up a photo of Terry Cole's RV on our home page. WAY TO GO
TERRY...Great choice of colors!
Click the blue link below if you care to see it
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/index.html)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Book status and Groton Seminar Info |
Got shipped to Charlottesville VA early this week and didn't
get as much done on R9 book as I'd planned but I've got the
work in the laptop and we're making good use of the 6 mile
high office. Leaving again in the morning for Groton CT for
our second weekend seminar of the year. If anyone not already
registered chooses to attend you're welcome to just show up.
We're doing something a little different this trip. We've got
a suitcase full of tools that will be used for some real time
demonstrations. Attendee names will be drawn for taking some
of them home.
>The directions to Survival Systems at the Groton, CT airport are as follows:
>From the North ( Providence, RI): RT 95 South > take Exit 88 > Left onto RT
>117 > follow to end > at "T" turn right onto US 1 South > (follow signs to
>Groton Airport) > turn Left onto Tower Ave.
>
> Survival Systems is the large Blue Bldg across from the terminal.
>
>
>>From the South (New York): RT 95 North > take Exit 88 > at the bottom of
the
>exit ramp take a Right > follow to end > at "T" turn right onto US 1 South >
>(follow signs to Groton Airport) > turn Left onto Tower Ave.
>
> Survival Systems is the large Blue Bldg across from the terminal.
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Our e-mail server crashed |
Our e-mail server was out from Wednesday night last until late
Friday afternoon. Items directed to me were NOT spooled. Letters
direct to me during that interval went into the black
hole of cyberspace . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Battery Cable Rental Kit. |
Hello Listers:
I've put up the first Rental Kit. It's for Battery Cables. You can it at AAMR/AirCore/ Battery
Cables or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page23.html
Please take a look and let me know what you think. Other Kits are coming soon.
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | NOTICE: Matronics Web Server Back Online... |
Dear Email Listers,
The Matronics Web and FTP server is finally back online! What a
nightmare... But at least its finally done and in all honesty the
system is running much better. Everything should be working now
including the Search Engine, Archive Browser, various List-related
pages, Matronics Product Pages, Online Ordering, Real Video server
and Contribution pages.
Again, I'm sorry it took so long to get things back - way longer than I
ever intended.
Have fun!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | The RG battery has come to WalMart . . . |
As I was passing by the automotive battery rack in my
local WalMart yesterday, a particular product caught
my eye . . . it was a fairly heafty battery with the
grain-elevator like collection of cylindrical cell
housings.
I picked up a flyer on what is called the EverStart
Ultra, a totally sealed, jelly-roll style construction
RG battery. This is a big beast. I would guess it
to be between 25 and 35 a.h. in capacity. Can't
recommend this battery for many airplane applications.
The noteworthy points of this find are (1) RG technology
has found it's way into the most rudimentary of consumer
product streams and (2) the thing sells for $75. The
next thing to watch for is a line of smaller batteries
with the same technology for use in garden equipment
and perhaps even motorcycles.
Of course we don't know who makes this particular battery
for WalMart . . . it has the look and feel of an Optima
but given the age of the original patents by Gates
Energy Products on the Cyclon series jelly-roll cells,
this battery could be made by anybody. Only a test
in the marketplace will tell us if this battery is
worth the lead and plastic that holds it together.
It's not here yet but I believe it's a matter of time
before you can buy a better airplane battery from your
local WalMart than you can buy from any FBO . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | We've got books! |
Just got a call from our printer . . . fresh Rev 9 books
are coming out the end of the pipe. Anyone who has a book
ordered with us or Andy Gold can expect to see it in the
mail pretty soon. Books will start leaving here tomorrow,
Andy will have his books probably by Friday.
Thank you all for your patience. BTW, the price of the
book has gone down. We increased the size of the first
printing and the print shop gave us a better price. We're
passing that savings on to our customers.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ft Worth Seminar . . . |
The next seminar on the summer schedule is in Ft. Worth where
George and Becky Orndorff are hosting this event for the third
year. Hotel and location data for the program have been posted
on our website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Individuals who have signed up for this program will be
contacted in the next 10 days to finalize your registration.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | World's lightest alternator . . . |
Response to the mini-article we did for an all electric
airplane on a budget has been strong. We've decided to stock
the world's lightest (3.5#) alternator as the low cost key
to a practical all electric panel.
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/alterntr/alterntr.html#sd8
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ: Network Problems To Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
My ISP is upgrading their network today 4/30 and tomorrow 5/1. I
noticed that Nameservice (DNS) went down last night around 3am which
causes all sorts of problems. If your message post was rejected between
about 3am 4/30 and 1pm 4/30, please repost as it was rejected do to the
DNS being down. I've redirected my systems to a different DNS server in
the mean time and things seem to be working right now. In any case, be
aware that there may be continuing issues over the next couple of days
both posting email messages and accessing the web server.
My ISP *promises* that things are going to be so much better after the
upgrade! We'll see... ;-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery - Voltage Regulator |
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jones, Bryan D."
<bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
>
>Isn't the Odyssey a dry cell type battery? If so, what type voltage
>regulator does it require? Same as for lead-acid battery?
The Odyssey is not a dry cell, it has liquid water and
sulphuric acid in it. It's also a lead-acid battery.
It requires no special attention in terms of voltage
regulation.
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
The majority of my builders are using a 17 a.h. recombinant gas
batteries which which can be found on hte following links.
These batteries can be purchased from a variety of battery
specialty shops. We have some little convenience store sized
Battery Patrols around Wichita that handle these batteries
for $60-70 each.
Powersonic: PS-12180
http://www.power-sonic.com/12180.html
Hawker: Check out the first 6 batteries on this page . . .
http://www.hepi.com/products/genesis/genprod.htm
Panasonic: particularly the LCRD1271P
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd
1217p.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
Yuasa-Exide: Check out the NP18-12B at this site . . .
http://www.yuasa-exide.com/np-prod.html
Handle these like any other lead-acid battery. Bus volts no
less than 13.8 - 14.2 is about ideal - no more than 14.6
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Website forms mailer back up . . . |
Our website is back up using a generic forms mailer that came
with the original configuration. I seem to have been swallowed
up in the policies and procedures swamp at my host's offices.
Couldn't get an expert to look at the problem until a form had
been filled out and dropped on somebody's desk; a day later expert
takes a peek and then phones me at the wrong number to leave voicemail
on quote to fix; a day later expert is out for the day; etc. etc.
Gave up and went back to square one.
In any case, the system is functioning as of this hour. I'm really
warming to the idea of having my site-server site in dedicated
hardware right in my office . . . we'll have DSL in our neighborhood
this fall so that just might be the ultimate solution.
Thanks to everyone for their patience.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | OV protection w/built in regulator |
>My experience has been that most of the hardware old enough to use an
>external regulator is also less reliable. Note that I said 'my
>experience' and 'most.' I went through 4 externally regulated
>alternators & at least that many regulators in about 4 months before
>switching to an internally regulated alt. almost 5 years ago, with not a
>single glitch since. None of the above failures were of the o/v nature &
>none damaged any avionics.
Agreed . . . and MOST of the externally regulated alternator
hardware out there is specific to aircraft and designed/certified
20-30 years ago. Check the service difficulty reports using keyword
"alternator" and then filter for single engine aircraft . . .
Everything that might be deduced in the way of alternator failures
happens every month in a TC aircraft . . . "casting broke, thru-bolts
stripped, brushes worn out, windings burned, bearings siezed, diodes
shorted, etc. etc." FBO's love 'em . . . regulated job security well
into the new century.
On the other hand, when you take a brand new, Nipon-Dienso, 40 or
60 amp alternator, disassemble for modification to run external
regulation, balance the rotor to about 10x tighter specs than
they come out of the factory and re-assemble with due care, you
end up with an alternator that runs well for a very long time.
I have first hand knowledge of 2,000+ such alternators sold over
the last 8 years . . . not one has returned for wear-out or
repair. It's the difference between a 1990's product and a
1960's product.
>I don't use o/v protection, but if I did, it would probably be the very
>simple zener/fuse arrangement. I'm sure Bob's solid state system is more
>sophisticated & works better, but as the guy used to write in BYTE
>Magazine, 'Better is the enemy of good enough.'
The zener fuse combo was certified onto early American and subsequently
Grumman-American aircraft. It's a sort of poor-man's crowbar ov
protection scheme. When I first heard of it, I was skeptical.
It has been about 15 years since I brass-boarded this system onto
an alternator-battery system in the lab. Here's what I found.
Proper operation of the system depended heavily on two things.
(1) A fuse (fast acting) had to be used upstream of the zener
and (2) the zener had to be a 1W glass encapsulated device -
p/n 1N4745.
It works like this: In an ov condition, the zener tries its
best to keep the bus voltage from rising above 16 volts. In so
doing, internal disipation rises well above the diode's 1W
rating and it commits electronic suicide by becoming a dead
short. The resulting short opens the fuse and corrals the runaway
alternator.
Over the years, folk who did not understand the "balance of
power" implicit the this design made well meaning-changes to
this scheme with the unintended consequences of degrading
performance or even making the system ineffectual. Common
errors include:
(1) Replace pesky fuse with a real circuit breaker: Opening
times for breakers vs. fuses is 10x to 50x longer. The slow
response of the breaker stresses the zener to explosive
destruction. The altenrator runaway continues unabated.
(2) Substituted any ol zener with the number "1N4745"
printed on it: Plastic parts were unable to withstand
the rapid onset of heat dissipation and explosive
destruction of the zener results. The runaway continues
unabated.
(3) Substitute a really husky 16 volt zener for the itty-
bitty 1W device. This change was often combined with
a change from fuse to circuit breaker. The general idea
was to make the protection scheme "reusable" . . . no
fuses -or- zeners to replace: The general effect of this
modification was to push the time-constant for tripping
OV protection out by hundreds of milliseconds to perhaps
several seconds. Contemporary OV protection is designed
to react to a step from 14-20 volts on the bus in 50
milliseconds or less.
>My personal feeling about external regulators & o/v protection is this:
>Once I reach a certain (hard to define) comfort level about the
>reliability of a system, I'd rather not add failure modes. Over-voltage
>type failures in self-regulated alternators seem to be so rare that you
>hear about every one. Generator/regulator & alt/regulator failures are
>so common that they are treated like dry vac pump failures, you know
>they are going to happen sometime in the near future.
No argument about comfort levels . . . I'll suggest that
the greatest body of experience with aircraft alternators
comes from the world of certified aircraft. My best
recommendation is to see what's happening with true
state-of-the art designs and fabrication techniques.
There's a mistaken perception that the certified aircraft
world is benefiting from the advance of technologies
in all respects . . . I'll suggest it happens only in
area of things you bolt into holes on the instrument
panel. Stuff under the cowl has evolved very slowly if
at all in 50 years or so that have passed since
the first generator was bolted to a single engine
airplane. If you want to know what a modern alternator
can really do for you, you'll have to limit your
observations to the real leading edge of aviation
technologies . . . check out the flight line at
OSH.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Walls <larryw(at)cio.hhsys.org> |
| Subject: | Video recorder and Intercom |
I have a video camera in my Vari-Eze which receives audio
from the intercom. The intercom is "overpowering" the
camera. That is the best word I can use to describe what
is happening. The audio is very distorted as if the volume
is far to high.
Anyone have any suggestions?
----------------------
Larry Walls
VEZ 1344Z
larryw(at)CIO.hhsys.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List: Alum polishing compound recommendation? |
In a message dated 5/13/00 8:11:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elrond(at)xprt.net
writes:
> Anyone got a recommendation for a brand of aluminum polishing compound?
> Any tricks to speed up the process?
Hi Bruce: Below please find two links. One is for a company in Canada. They
give a lot of info on polishing and their US counter parts.
The other is a company I am going to use to buy supplies to polish my
Airstream(s). Great info. Their site is under reconstruction this weekend, So
book mark them and look them over next week.
Aircraft Exterior Polish, Aircraft
Polishing products
Lake Country Manufacturing
I hope this helps.
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-homebuilt ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | Gretz Aero Products |
Hello listers,
I have been told lately that a few builders have been trying to get in
touch with me. Several months ago my e-mail address changed when I got
my website up. My current e-mail address is info(at)gretzaero.com
My website address is www.gretzaero.com
You should take a look at the products I make and sell for builders at
this website. The most popular item is the heated pitot tube mounting
bracket. I also sell heated pitot tubes at a great price. There are
several other items there I am sure you will be interested in also.
Please contact me by e-mail, or the phone if you have questions.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811 evenings and weekends or leave a message on the recorder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Phillips" <mphill(at)fgi.net> |
| Subject: | enpennage for sale |
completed prepunched enpennage for sale,purchased completed enpennage,wings,
and dont need 2 enpennages,electric trim
----- Original Message -----
From: <AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 12:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Zenith-List: Alum polishing compound recommendation?
> --> RV-List message posted by: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
>
> In a message dated 5/13/00 8:11:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
elrond(at)xprt.net
> writes:
>
>
> > Anyone got a recommendation for a brand of aluminum polishing compound?
> > Any tricks to speed up the process?
>
> Hi Bruce: Below please find two links. One is for a company in Canada.
They
> give a lot of info on polishing and their US counter parts.
>
> The other is a company I am going to use to buy supplies to polish my
> Airstream(s). Great info. Their site is under reconstruction this weekend,
So
> book mark them and look them over next week.
> Aircraft Exterior Polish,
Aircraft
> Polishing products
>
> Lake Country
Manufacturing
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
> ineCore
> (Chick the blue link to go there)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Somewhere in the recess of my mind, I recall something being said about a
>difference between store bought switches and aviation quality switches. I
>have looked through all my library and cannot find any reference that
>directs an answer to this ponderence. Tony Bingelis says that there are
>probably many 'Radio Shack' switches out there in homebuilt aircraft, but it
>bothers me to go 'downtown' for switches if I am supposed to be getting
>aircraft switches.
What's an "aircraft" switch? Never saw one with that
terminology marked on it. There's plenty of advertising
hype designed to convince folk that a particular offering
is more suited to aircraft than another product . . .
but no matter how much you spend for a switch, does that
guarantee that it will never fail? If it might fail,
what is your "plan-b" for dealing with the failure? If
you've GOT a plan-b, then is the absolute quality of the
switch all that important?
I can tell you that the row of rockers that went into
tens of thousands of single engine Cessnas cost them
under $1.00 each. The vast majority of those installed
at the factory are still operating 20+ years later.
> . . . Even 'Electric Bob' seems quiet on this topic other than
>to say that the switch should be heavy duty and a snap action switch which
>is rated for the load to be placed on it. Where is the reference that I
>remember about AC and DC rated switches? Can anyone point the way?
I just got back to Wichita after a week of errant electron
stomping in CT . . . working a proble with the de-ice
system on the Beechjet. Took the day off from RAC to try
and catch up on duties at home.
You can download a copy of an article I did for Sport
Aviation a few years ago at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( still understand knothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming starter ring gear/pulley options |
>speaking of starter ring gears, why is there 2 types, what are the advantages
>and disadvantages of the 2, i need to know soon as i may purchase an engine
>tommorrow.
>>There are (at least) two ring castings for the lycomming (the casting is
about
>>the size of a dinner plate and dished shaped). The difference is the
casted-in
>>pulley diameter, The other variable in the mix is the steel tooth ring
that is
>>fitted (interference) onto the casting ...one being 144 tooth the other
being
>>122 tooth. It really makes no major difference which your engine has
other than
>>the starter drive gear needs to match your tooth-ed ring. Starters come in 2
>>options 144 & 122 tooth
Early 60's everything 122 teeth. 149 tooth gears came along
later on some engines to get a better cranking ratio.
Current production O-235 and IO-720 have 122 tooth gears
stock. All other engines leave factory with 149 tooth
gears.
Pinion gear on all starters have 9 teeth.
When this info was repeated to the Lycoming rep at OSH last
year, the rep was unaware of the 122 tooth gear on the
larger engine. He went to the parts catalog for the
IO-720 and confirmed Bill's observation.
B&C recommends that every engine be fitted with 122 tooth
ring gear. The tooth engagement is better and the system
runs smoother. Be aware of the fact that either casting
can be fitted with any ring gear . . . the mating diameters
are the same. If you put a 122 tooth gear on a casting
designed for 149 tooth, the gear moves 0.060" too close
to the starter.
>>........ My last post just mentioned a vendor who has a
>>inexpensive pulley for the alternator of slightly larger diameter that
reduces
>>the rpm's of the starter a little ( 10 to 12 % if I recall) no mater what
>>casting you have on your ring gear......
B&C has offered the small pulley on their ND alternators since
day one. IF the rotor is balanced well then the positives
for running the alternator faster outweigh the negatives.
You get better output from the alternator at ground operating
RPMs and better cowl clearances. The exemplary demonstrated
service life of these alternators shows there are no life
issues to be addressed by running the alternator slower.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can you cut EGT &CHT sensor wires? |
>
>According to Bob's book and the uMonitor instructions, it is important
>to use the same type/size of wire and connectors for the intermediate
>cable runs. Each connection of different metals creates another
>thermocouple junction. By using the same materials in the intermediate
>cables, the effects of these extra junctions will cancle out.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-ez , RV List
| Subject: | Gretz Aero Cyber Problems |
Greetings, I found out last night and checked out the problem today and
I am not receiving any order sent to Gretz Aero by way of my website. I
am not sure of the problem fix as yet. If you placed an order with me
lately (last few weeks) and have not heard from me, please e-mail me
right away and describe what you want to order. Or, you may call me in
the evenings or on the weekends and place the order again. I also have a
recorder on the phone line.
My website address is http://www.gretzaero.com but, at this
time do not place orders by way of the website. I will post a notice
when it is fixed. Please call me or send me an e-mail in the meantime.
Sorry for the inconvience.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811 evenings and weekends, or leave a message on the recorder
warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New Fuse Block Page |
Hello Listers:
We have a new page with a few new fuse blocks!
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page97.html
or click this link AAM
R/AirCore/ Fuse Blocks
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Electrical Tape |
In a message dated 6/13/00 10:09:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nhunger(at)sprint.ca writes:
> Did you know that electrical tape comes in many different grades? They cover
> temperature gradients, moisture, tack, flammability, stretch, color, width,
> ect, ect...The stuff you get at Home Depot for $0.39 is junk.
Hi Norman: You couldn't be more right about cheap tape...They're cheap and
don't last on the job.
We carry 3M 33+...If you must use tape, it's one of the best.
Now the AD. Find it on AAMR/AirCore/Tape Page
Or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page6.html
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Make your own custom treminal blocks |
Hello Listers:
New Page!!!!
Make up your own custom terminal blocks AAMR/AirCore/ Terminal
blocks
or http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/Page99.html
Regards,
John @ AAMR/AirCore/Mar
ineCore
(Chick the blue link to go there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
ear.navy.mil>
> A couple weeks ago, Michael Harter, John King, and I flew to the Va.
>State Fly-in. I flew with John, in his plane, and we followed Michael. We
>flew off his aft stbd quarter (nautical talk) most of the way and Mikes
>transmissions were very weak and garbbled to the point, we could barely
>understand him. John said, they had experienced the problem before when
>flying in formation. We were well within visual distance of Mikes plane.
>If we changed position a little, the problem seemed to get better.
> Is this mearly a "positioning" problem? Both radios in question were
>built in and not handhelds.
It is not uncommon for closely positioned radios NOT to communicate
well with each other . . . the receivers are designed to pick very
tiny signals out of the etherial trash. After going to a lot of
trouble to hear the weak signals, the radio may be prone to overloading
from VERY strong signals. Try an experiment where you back off from
the transmitter that's difficult to hear in incerments. You may find
some separation where the receiver "recovers" and you can now hear
what used to be garbled. Further, radiation patters around an
airplane can have marked peaks and valleys in their intensity, you
may discover that your position in azimuth around the
> Speaking of handhelds, I saw in, one of the catalog's, an "amplifier"
>for handhelds. Are they worth the money to improve comms with a handheld?
>If I remember, they weren't cheap????
Generally these devices only boost your transmitter performance
although some may have receiving pre-amps built in too. By-in-large,
receivers in hand helds are nearly as capable as receivers in
panel-mounted radios when it comes to sensitivity. It may lack
capabilities in overload resistance but generally speaking there
is little gain to be realized by puting a pre-amp on a hand held
radio's receiver.
Transmit amplifiers will indeed make you heard further but there
are cautions. Low power hand held radios, because they are low
power, don't have to work so hard to suppress UNWANTED output from
their transmitters . . . and EVERY transmitter puts out energy
on frequencies other than the one you're using to communicate.
An amplifier will boost both the desired and undesired outputs
which may cause you to become a nuisance to folk using other
parts of the spectrum. An external antenna is much less expensive,
needs no power from ship's systems, and will generally let you
talk to any station you can hear.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
"Ez List" ,
"Glasair List" ,
"Glastar List" ,
"Kitfox Lists" ,
"Kolb List (Matronics)" ,
"Lancair-List (Matronics)" ,
"Rocket List" ,
"RV List" ,
"Zenith List"
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Low cost tool for open barrel pins . . . |
I've been looking at several sources for a low cost tool
to install the open barrel (sheet metal pins) common to
the Whelen strobe kits, and available from Radio Shack
in blister-paked mating pairs.
I've decide on a tool to stock. You can see a preliminary
instruction sheet on its use at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
As soon as we have the OBC-1 in stock for shipment, we'll add
them to the website catalog index and drop a note to the
lists. In the mean time, if the instructions prompt
any questions for which answers are not obvious, let me
know. I'll be pleased to adjust the text and photos as necessary
to maximize understanding of the tool's utility for everyone.
BTW, this tool will also install the open barrel standard
d-sub pins. Been learning to use a new digital camera that
makes it MUCH easier to produce the illustrated instruction
sheets. Let me know what you think.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob.. the URL you showed is bogus...
>Dennis Douglas
Oops . . . was logged into the hard-drive version when I
captured the URL to my clipboard. You can find it on my website
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
Thanks for the heads up!
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>> >Amp makes a tool available through Newark Electronics or you can order
>> >direct from Amp on their web page. I recall that both of these connectors
>> >take the same crimper. It's called a Service Tool II but I don't have a
>> >part number.
>>
>> I was going to stock this tool . . . tried to order a couple
>> dozen and was informed that AMP has discontinued it. It was
>> one of best values around in a low-cost open-barrel crimper.
>> Very well made compared to some of the tools I've been evaluating
>> over the past month.
>>
>> We've finally decided on one and have inquiries out to
>> several warehouses that stock them. See how it works at:
>>
>> file:///D|/0_WEBSIT/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
>>
>> I hope to put this tool in our website catalog for about the
>> same price as what the Service Tool II would have cost.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Variable Transformers (Variacs) and Shop Safety |
>I am moving into that portion of Cozy building which requires the hotwire
>cutting of foam. It's been 20+ years since I've had to worry about a
>suitable power supply for a hotwire saw (note: remember to whom you loan
>tools to). The great extent of my knowledge in regards to such a power
>supply is that, Amps kill and Volts heat:)
>
>So not wanting to hook a light dimmer switch up to the house power supply, I
>decided to start looking for a Variable Transformer(Variac), I have located
>a company (All Electronics Corp) that is selling 2-types of these Variable
>Transformers, URL
>(http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/c
>-Variacs.html?L+scstore+jdcw2965fff8d9f8+963471892). Would you take a look
>at the 2-Variacs listed, and tell me if these are suitable of producing in
>Safety the heat needed for hotwire cutting the Cozy wing and canard parts.
>The Variac that interests me the most is their 5 Amp Variable (Input: 110
>Vac. Output: 0 - 130 Vac) Transformer (#SC-5M). I am also open to
>suggestions and other possibilities, but with my children assisting me in
>plane building I am not comfortable with the practice of plugging an
>non-insulated dimmer switch into an outlet and the other end attached to a
>hot wire.
>
>Could someone please shad some light on this problem:
Variacs (an acronym trade name derived from "VARIable AC") are very
handy devices for generating a source of adjustable AC voltage in
the shop. They can adjust the speed of motor driven power tools,
vary the output from small heaters, -AND- many builders have reported
success with using VARIACs to control the power to a hot-wire foam
cutter.
By-in-large, used with understanding and some caution, these critters
can be most useful. However, be aware that these are not isolation
transformers . . . they have but one winding and operate as sort of
an AC potentiometer. Just because the "OUTPUT" is a few, seemingly
non-hazardous volts, there are ways they can be mis-wired such that
terminal output voltages with respect to earth ground is equal to
your 115 vac line voltage. Take a peek at a wiring diagrams I've
just uploaded to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/variac.pdf
Most VARIACs come already enclosed and internally wired
at the factory. However, there are lots of surplus components for
sale out there that require the user to mount them in an enclosure
and/or wire them up . . . It's not difficult to wire these guys
up so that they do not present a hazard for driving your hot-wire
cutters or other exposed conductor applications. Further, its
always a good idea to operate your shop's wall outlets from a
ground fault interrupter . . . they are really inexpensive. One
GFI can be wired to supply all of the miscelaneous outlets in your
shop.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Server glitch - lost orders |
We're finding that some orders placed with us approx 7-10 days
ago slid off the edge of the world. With few exceptions, every
order in hand has been shipped and acknowledged by e-mail.
If anyone has an order pending with us for which you HAVE NOT
received an acknowledgment showing a ship date, please drop
us a note.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instrument bashing! |
>If your alternator goes out, your battery dies or your buss fries, a
>few suck type instruments would look mighty good up there in a murky sky.
The 'dark panel' syndrome has been topic of many a hair-raising,
wing-and-a-prayer hangar tale for decades. Virtually all of these
experiences happend in a government approved, certified aircraft
where the technology and design philosophy are carved into
1960's era regulatory stone.
>With all electric, you could lose all instrments at once unless you have a
>lot of back up electrical systems in place.
There is no reason for a modern aircraft to suffer an electrical
emergency of any kind. Wires are no longer cotton-covered-rubber
or nylon-over-PVC insulation. Reasonably maintained batteries are
dependable sources of power when and if the alternator craps. A second
alternator capable of extended endurance engine powered flight
costs less than a vacuum system and weighs 1/2 to 1/3 the pounds.
Certified alternators repeately demonstrate 50-200 hrs limits before
something breaks . . . modern alternators that ran the lifetime of
the automobile they came out of are ready to go another thousand
hours or so in your airplane. Simple departures from system architectures
revered for decades provide operational alternatives to every
simple failure of any component.
Physics and facts don't support the rhetoric. Busses don't "fry",
any battery that enjoys a modicum of preventative maintenance doesn't
die in flight, and alternators (particulary two of them) are going
to be there in one form or another when you need them. MOST importantly,
YOUR airplane is going to be fabricated and maintined under aviation's
finest traditions of craftsmanship and attention to detail.
On an assembly line, the kid bucking rivets has been working there two
weeks. If something doesn't quite line up, he'll stick an awl
into the hole and MAKE them line up. If something gets bent or broke,
3 supervisors and 5 inspectors will stand around for an hour and
deduce the MINIMUM effort and expense that will allow the factory
to LEGALLY put the airplane out the door. Is that how your
airplane goes together?
>So you install double alternators, double batteries, seperate busses and so
>on. Also, if I am not off the bubble, electric instruments cost a lot more.
True. But you save on vacuum system weight and installation time.
The rat's nest of plumbing and hoses behind panel go away. Weight of
system goes down. In 1965 while working at Cessna single engine
engineering I was told that it was worth $100/pound to the end user
to reduce the weight of an airplane. Each pound left OUT didn't have
to be fabricated, installed, maintained nor was fuel burned carrying
that extra pound of stuff around in the sky for the lifetime of the
airplane. What is a pound of excess weight worth to you 35 years
later? What's it worth to have reliability in a single engine airplane
that rivals or exceeds that of a LearJet? What's it worth NOT to
fabricate, install and maintain several pounds of plumbing?
>Vac. pumps have been around for ever and to suddenly say they are no good
>makes little sense. With Vac. pumps as with most other things, you get what
>you pay for. Even one supposedly good for only three hundred hours would
>run most pilots three years.
It runs deeper than getting what you pay for . . . you can pay
a lot of money for trash. If you endorse the "been around forever"
philosophy then how about keeping dual VOR and an ADF in the
panel? I know some folks that would make you a really good deal
on a DME.
I work daily within the morass of regulated aviation. A substantial
portion of my time is expended trying to figure out how to fix
a problem without opening the Pandora's box of recertification.
The system works against truly effective solutions to problems.
The very reguations offered up in the quest for aviation utopia
are in fact making airplanes less friendly to the people who
own, maintain and fly them. You don't know how refreshing it is to come
home and work the folks who are building the finest airplanes to have
ever flown.
You may find comfort in a familiarity with "the devil
you know". However a little study of aviation's history
and some observation of truly modern and (more important)
UNREGULATED evolution of aviation technology proves that
"the devil you don't know" is really a pretty nice guy.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instrument bashing! |
>Bob,
> I know a guy who was flying an Arrow from Orlando, FL, to Corpus
>Christ, TX. As he was getting into the pattern, he dropped his retractable
>gear. Suddenly he found that he had no electrical power, and the lights
>weren't going green -- he heard the thumps but no light indication. He went
>to NORDO procedures and the airport rolled out the red carpet in the way of
>emergency vehicles and foam machines. It turns out that his gear was down,
>and he made a safe landing. Later he found out that the problem was caused
>by his flying for 3.5 hours with the alternator switch off. He had been
>running on the battery the whole time and didn't even know it!
EXACTLY!!!!!!! Not one single certified light aircraft I'm
aware of ever left the factory with the most rudimentary
of electrical systems instrumentation - ACTIVE NOTIFICATION
OF ALTENRATOR FAILURE - in the form of low volts warning for
bus below 13.0 volts. . . .
Sometimes we get so enamored of all the things we CAN do in
terms of whippy avionics we forget the basics. I'm working a
problem right now on a certified aircraft that has cost about
$10,000,000 in warranty service in the field . . . the study
is zeroing in on a change in MATERIAL about 10 years ago
that cost under $1.
> So I say that there are still reasons for modern aircraft to suffer an
>electrical emergency of some kind. If you factor in pilot error, there
>could be an emergency, just like above. And I am sure that are other ways
>of having electrical emergencies. After all, they were invented and built
>by humans, so electrical systems, just like other systems, are prone to
>failure.
I disagree . . . certified aircraft are NOT modern . . . Independence
KS and company are the Jurassic Parks of aviation. Your #1 sources
for brand new 40 year old airplanes. Airplanes built in people's
basements and garages CAN be modern if the builder so chooses. The
guy's Arrow would have benefited greatly from the addition of a
simple, $50 warning light.
> To be fair, I plan on going all electric with redundancy, just like you
>say below. But I do plan on having emergency procedures in case those
>redundant systems fail.
Please do everything you can to strike the word "EMERGENCY" from
the lexicon of electrical system speech . . . it's high school
physics and application of rudimentary logic to design a system
that is failure tolerant of any single component failure. Electrical
sytem PARTS failures should not precipitate flight SYSTEM failures.
> . . . When I get to the instruments and electrical system
>on my Aerocanard, I would like to talk to you about it. I want a highly
>reliable redundant electrical system and instruments with good lighting for
>night operations. I'm sick and tired of these production aircraft that have
>poorly lit instruments that can't hardly be seen at night.
Good for you! Please reste assured that it's not difficult . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DC Powered Vacuum Pump |
>a while back somebody (I believe it was John) suggested a small electrical
>driven compressor as an alternative to a vacuum pump or venturi. He
>especially recommended the UNMP50 from KNF. Their brushless type (for
>permanent operation) costs $ 213.00. The pump will make 2.7 l per min at 4
>Hg. I'm ready to order one from KNF, but I'm somewhat reluctant. Has anybody
>tried such a pump yet?
Is this for normal operations of vacuum instruments? I used
to work for a company that sold STANDBY electrically driven
vacuum pumps . . . they take a LOT of snort . . . like
125 to 300 watts. Got that much extra available full time
from your alternator? . . .
Found this on the internet:
(3) Vacuum loads may be calculated as follows:
(a) Gyroscopic instruments require optimum value of airflow to
produce their rated rotor speed. For instance, a bank and pitch
indicator requires approximately 2.30 cubic feet per minute for its
operation
. . . 2.3 cu feet per minute is about 65 liters per minute
and a resistance or pressure drop of 4.00 inches Hg. Therefore, operating
an instrument requiring 4.00 inches Hg from oneventuri would be marginal.
Similarly, the directional gyro indicator consumes approximately 1.30 cubic
feet per minute and a pressure drop of 4.00 in Hg. . . . It should be noted
that the negative pressure air source must not only deliver the optimum value
of vacuum to the instruments, but must also have sufficient volume capacity
to accommodate the total flow requirements of the various instruments which
it serves.
. . . adding 1.3 cu-ft/min (37 more liters/min) brings the total
up to more than 3.6 cu/ft or 100 liters per minute at 4 in-hg or
better.
Looking at KNF's website, the only pumps capable of this
performance have to plug in the wall. It taks a LOT of
suck to run a vacuum instrument. This may be why those little
engine driven pumps in airplanes are so hard pressed to run
for very long. . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Norhtern CA Seminar 2000 date set |
We have enough interest in a northern California to set a date
for a weekend seminar. The weekend of September 30/October 1 has
been selected. The site will be in Santa Rosa, California. Builders
and aircraft owners are invited to check over the course description
found at http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Reservations for this presentation may be entered on the same page.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RF exposure hazards . . . |
> . . . . Considering the transponder only
>transmits a low duty cycle burst and is receiving most of the time, it's
>probably not a problem. This also would fall under the guidelines for a
>controlled environment, meaning the occupants can be told they are sitting in
>an RF field, and the transmitter can be turned off if so desired. Between
>the low power and intermittent low power transmit, I would be pretty certain
>everybody will be fine. It certainly is an area worth learning a little bit
>about. It's a complex concept, and isn't always fully understood by even the
>experts. I still think getting the antennas as far away from the
occupants is
>a good idea.
>> . . . . . In the prototype we installed it outside the
>> shell, below the passenger seat, and then had the whole area above the
>> composite shell covered with a thin alum sheet to act as the ground plane
>> and to protect the passenger from any radiation. (Remember, I was the
>> one who sat on the passenger side in all those demos). I always wondered
>> how effective the alum sheet was in protecting my body. So far, so good.
Concerns for radiation safety and transponders surface from
time to time in aviation circles . . . especially when some
folk read that certain models of tranpsonders put out "600 Watts".
Flags go up and statements are made to the effect, "Gee, my microwave
oven is only 600 watts and it will really toast things . . ."
The "600 Watt Out" and the "toasty foods" are both true statments
but unrelated to each other. Tranponders are rated for PEAK power
output during the few tens of microseconds/second while replying to
an interrogation. Microwave ovens are rated in CONTINUOUS or
HEATING power output which will indeed "toast things".
A transponder's very low AVERAGE power output, presents no
hazard even at 600 watts peak. Most modern transponders
are rated at only 100 to 200 watts peak . . . the need for big
transmitters has evaporated given improvements in solid
state receiving amplifers used at modern radar sites.
Long and Vari-Ez builders were oft cautioned about shielding
the family jewels from ravages of "tranponsder onslaught"
and the practice were unfounded in physics.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Room at OSH available |
Well, my on-again off-again plans for OSH are off again, at least for most
of it, so the room I had reserved will be available. This is a room with a
queen bed in a nice house with central air. The hostess, Sharon Hawkins,
provides continental breakfast. She works the EAA too so it should be
possible to catch a ride with her to and from the show when she goes. The
house is close to a bus line so you can get to/from that way too. Its
available for the whole show.
If interested, contact Sharon Hawkins, 920-232-8554.
Please email me if you get the room so I can get my deposit back.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Room at OSH taken |
Looks like the room I posted at OSH (Sharon Hawkins') has been taken
(Charlie, be sure to let me and/or the list know if anything changes.)
I will in fact be going but not until Friday or Saturday, and I'll just
camp. Look forward to seeing y'all!
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~100 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Is there an expert out there who can explain how the Balun works!
There is no physical electical connection of the center wire
of the coax as explained in the Kitfox assembly manual and it
just does not look like it should work! The shield is split and
the VOR cat's whiskers are connected to each of the split ends of
the shielded wire.
There are three or four commonly used "balun" (short for balanced
to unbalanced) fabrication techniques using coaxial cable. You can
also do the job with little ferrite core transformers . . in fact
an antenna company in MO used to offer some antennas to amateur
airplane builders that used small transformers inside a molded
plastic center insulator on their products.
It's not easy to explain. Some excellent info on transmission line
theory and grass-roots practice can be gleaned from American Radio
Relay League's publications on antennas and feedlines for radio
amateurs.
I understand the purpose of the balun is to balance the impedance of the
feedline to that of the antenna.
Correct . . .
Is there another way to feed a VOR antenna?
Sure . . . hook the shield to one whisker and the center conductor
to the other whisker. Putting a balun in the system is a mixed bag.
It adds complexity . . . more solder joints . . . should be checked
with an antenna analyzer to see if everything is cut to proper
length . . . bottom line is that you'll not be able to percieve
any difference in performance by simply judging how well your VOR
receiver works. Other airframe effects such as electrical system noise,
p-static and atmospherics can have worse effects on VOR reciver performance
than the fact that you failed to "properly" terminate your coax cable
There's a popular kit offered where ferrite beads or toroids are
slipped over the coax in immediate vicinity of the feedline attachment
to the antenna. I illlustrate this in my book's chapter on antennas
and feedlines. I've since learned (and seen demonstrated in the
lab) that a few toroids are not enough to make a difference. It takes
several dozen to equal the effects of a properly implemented balun.
VHF is line of sight stuff. If you can "see" the station you can
hear it or talk to it and a wet string would probably suffice for
an antenna. The ol' vacuum tube radios of yesteryear needed EVERY
advantage we could give them . . . modern solid state receiver
technology will work with very marginal signals compared to 40
years ago.
Make it easy on yourself. Hook 'er up, make sure you do a good job
with the connections and protect them from stresses of vibration
and environment and call it quits . . . it'll work just fine.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing |
> I am laying out my wiring diagram and have several areas
>where I will want to splice one wire into several others. I know this can
>be done with solder seal splices as well as crimped butt splices. What I
>can't seem to find any information on is how to determine what size crimp
>barrel to use. For instance, if I want to splice one 14 ga. wire to three
>22 ga. wires do I use a 14 ga. crimp barrel? Is there some way to convert
>multiple wire sizes into the equivalent single wire gauge? I know I can use
>terminal strips for some of this, but they take up a lot of space and add
>weight. Has anyone out there conquered this problem?
Each three steps in wire gage is about a 2x change in copper
cross section. For example, three 22AWG wires would have about
the same copper as a 17AWG . . . A blue (14-16AWG) butt splice
would be fine for what you propose . . .
The PROBLEM is that the circuit you've described must be protected
for 22AWG wire . . . it's okay to use 14AWG to extend a long circuit
for the purpose of lowering voltage drop but the circuit protection
needs to be sized for the SMALLEST wire in the circuit.
What is your application where the three way split seems necessary?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Armstrong
>
>
>Bob Nuckolls' explanation is (as usual) excellent and correctly points
>out that the KISS method will probably serve you well in this
>installation.
>
>For more detailed info on Baluns, you can find a good article at
>http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/8004019.pdf
>
>Bob RV-9A
>(AE0B, ARRL Technical Coordinator, Colorado Section)
Bob, Thank you for the heads-up on the article. I've
stashed it in my growing file of .pdf "savers".
It was interesting to note the pattern distortion
generated by the "improper" antenna feed . . . I've
seen patterns about as bad on airplanes when the antenna
WAS properly feed and matched . . . all the sticky-out
things on airplanes can do some amazing damage to an
otherwise perfectly good antenna pattern!
Bob . . .
K0DYH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Splicing (driving multiple loads from one output) |
>> I am laying out my wiring diagram and have several areas
>>where I will want to splice one wire into several others. I know this can
>>be done with solder seal splices as well as crimped butt splices. What I
>>can't seem to find any information on is how to determine what size crimp
>>barrel to use. For instance, if I want to splice one 14 ga. wire to three
>>22 ga. wires do I use a 14 ga. crimp barrel? Is there some way to convert
>>multiple wire sizes into the equivalent single wire gauge? I know I can
>>use terminal strips for some of this, but they take up a lot of space and
add
>>weight. Has anyone out there conquered this problem?
>I don't know about the original poster's application, but in my case it's
>panel and instrument lights. I can run all the grounds to the ground block
>but what's the accepted way of getting 6-8 22ga wires connected at one
>dimmer or switch? Multiple 3-to-1 butt splices? Ring terminals bolted
>together?
Here's the compact, low cost alternative to terminal strips . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/minibus.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
Hello Listers:
Please go to my Home Page and read the announcement. I am closing AAMR/AirCore/
Reasons for this move are on this page. I am leaving the How To Pages up for
your info finding needs.
So it's been fun and work.
Please support Electric Bob...He's a great guy and a valuable asset. Send him
your orders and maybe he can keep his doors open.
Best regards,
John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai
rCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)AOL.COM.Fri, |
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id" <B0004527366@mail-2.lbay.net>;
Thu,
27 Jul 2000 22:59:38.-0700(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | RV-List: (no subject) |
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
--> RV-List message posted by: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Hello Listers:
Please go to my Home Page and read the announcement. I am closing AAMR/AirCore/
Reasons for this move are on this page. I am leaving the How To Pages up for
your info finding needs.
So it's been fun and work.
Please support Electric Bob...He's a great guy and a valuable asset. Send him
your orders and maybe he can keep his doors open.
Best regards,
John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai
rCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I think you're on to something. Some of the white ty-wraps I've used in the
>past have lasted, and others not. And what is the difference between the
>white and black ones, other than color. Are they made of different stuff?
>Anybody?
The white guys are subject to ultra-violet degredation . . .
they also don't take kindly to hyro-carbon and ozone exposure
both of which are found in fair quantity under the cowl.
Ty-wraps treated for better resistance to environmental
stresses are always colored . . . most of the ones I've seen
are either dark green or black. However, it's possible to make
a ty-wrap from funky plastic of ANY color. When you buy them
new in original manufacturer's packaging, it will state on the
lable whether or not the critter is resistant to UV and/or
chemical attack.
My personal preference under the cowl is MS21919DGxx clamps
and/or Dacron flat-lace (string) . . . I've seen both of these
products work well for decades under the cowl.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | AMR has been sold! |
Hello listers
AAMR has been sold and will reopen shortly as Terminal Town.
The new URL will be http://terminaltown.com
If you care to be notified of opening please send your E mail address to
terminaltown(at)aol.com
Best regards.
John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai
rCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | AMR has been sold! |
Hello listers
AAMR has been sold and will reopen shortly as Terminal Town.
The new URL will be http://terminaltown.com
If you care to be notified of opening please send your E mail address to
terminaltown(at)aol.com
Best regards.
John Caldwell @ AAMR/Ai
rCore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Wire labels . . . |
Hi Bob! May I ask you how you print your wire labels from the computer?
What labels stuff do you print onto? Thanks . . .
I print onto full sheets of Avery label material . . . 8.5 x 11" sheets
in columns. Then stick the full sheet to one of those white plastic
cutting boards. Use an x-acto knife to cut out individual labels
to stick on wire and then cover with heat shrink.
see: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-aerobatic ,
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-beech ,
list-cessna ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket ,
list-tailwind ,
list-zenith
| Subject: | Gretz Aero products web site |
Greetings Listers,
I have a web site you may be interested in looking at. All of my
products are listed there with photos and prices.
The address is http://www.gretzaero.com
I hope you like what I offer.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lots of new goodies . . . |
We've added quite a few new goodies which I won't list here
except for one item . . . we've checked out a dozen or so
sample tools from various sources trying to replace the
discontinued AMP Service Tool II. It did a nice job on
both open-barrel D-sub pins -AND- the white plastic nylon
connectors from AMP and Molex that are popular with the
Whelan et. als. Best part was that it didn't cost an arm
and a leg.
We've selected a tool that does a nice job on the full range
of pins from the 20 AWG D-sub pins up through the .093"
pins used in the larger Molex connectors. Our stocking
order has been placed so we can take orders for the tool now.
Check out this and other additions to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
-and-
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Homemade Air Dryer |
>I would guess anything that will absorb moisture would work. Some diapers
>have exterior linings to prevent moisture from passing through the outer
>layer. That may hinder moisture absorption. The person I know that used
this
>homemade dryer used the cheapest napkins he could find. Get the girl friend
>or neighbor lady to make the purchase for you. Waded paper towel may also
>work. At any rate put the dryer at the end of a hose and not directly at the
>compressor. This will give the moisture a chance to condense in the hose.
Getting the moisture out of compressed air is a pretty rudimentary
science. There are a number of things you can do to "wet" air to
make it give up disolved water molecules. Contact with LOTS of
surface area (like the fiber filters cited) will take out SOME
moisture . . . but once it becomes saturated, it's not going to
take any more out. Same thing with hygroscopic materials like
silica gels, kitty-litter, etc. The hygroscopic traps need to
be periodically regenrated by baking the absorbtion medium
in an oven at 250F + degrees.
Having wrestled with the wet air problems in two facilities
I'll have to suggest that COOLING the compressed air is the
BEST way to get it dry. Our large volume air distribution
system at Electro-Mech took the warm compressed air right out
of the compressor through a fan cooled heat exchanger. The
inner tubes were sloped so that water condensing on inside walls
of the exchanger ran downhill into a trap at the low point.
There was an automatic drain at the bottom of the main storage
tank. This exchanger trap and tank drain removed the vast majority
of air ingested. The next step was to slope all horizontal runs
of distribution piping downward at about 2" per 10' so that
water condensing out on piping was swept toward far end where
there were more traps with drains. Branches off the main distribution
were T-connections pointing UP were a 6" upward stub made a
u-turn with two elbows before dropping to the factory floor.
This prevented water lying on the bottom of the distribution
pipe from being swept into the final distribution drop line.
When the air needs to VERY dry, you cool it as much below room
temperature as possible. I had an ice bath in one lab that
surrounded about 50" of 3/4" copper tubing. Again, down-sloped
tubing feeds a lowpoint trap and drain. The final step was
a hygroscopic filter that would push the moisture content down
to a few milligrams per liter at 100 psi.
For higher volume flows like for spray painting, log runs
of distribution piping at room temperature (air conditioning
in your shop does wonders for drying air in the lines) is pretty
inexpensive and easy to build. You need to use copper line for
this . . . plastic is okay pressure wise but doesn't cool the
contents fast enough to precipitate out the water. You can build
a dryer out of 3/4" copper and zig-zag a run on the wall for
as much length as you care to buy and assemble . . . I'd
suggest 40' as a minimum. Space off the wall and blow ambient
air over it with a fan. Put a low point trap and a good riser
from the trap to your supply line and you'll be surprised how
much water you can drain from the trap every hour.
One builder I met at a fly-in told me about a dryer he made
with an ordinary refrigerator. He build a loosely coiled
copper "still" trap from 100' of soft copper. He installed
it in the cold-box volume of the reefer and put some circulating
fans inside. With the fans running and the box set for max cold,
he was able spray very water sensitive paints in his Houston TX
shop with outside humidities running in the 60s . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Soldering d-sub connectors |
This topic has hit several list-server conversations over the
past week or so . . . here's a new comic book on the technique
I use . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html
I'll publish an alternative (an easier) technique using paste
solder . . . as soon as our stocking supply is in hand and available
from our website catalog.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I had the 'fox outside today working on the flaperons
>and a car stopped in the driveway, (nothing unusual so far).
>A lady got out and had ID around her neck for The Indianapolis
>Star, the local newspaper. (this is where the unusual part comes in).
>She said she had seen the plane in the garage last tuesday and
>that they want to do a story on it! I told her ok. She is going
>to contact me about setting up an appointment. I thought I would
>explain about the EAA and this list being a great help to me.
>What do you guys think? Has anyone on the list been through this before?
I quit speaking to mediatypes about 10 years ago after this
crowning touch on mis-representing "the news:"
Dee and I were out flying one cool and smooth day at lunchtime
at the little airport we used to own. While landing, I noticed
a large, obviously non-amateur camera set up on a tripod out in
the grass and panning my landing. Needless to say I was more than
extra mindful of doing a good job. By the time we taxied around
to the hangar, reporter and cameraguy were hoofing it across the
field to talk to us.
Seems newspaper headlines for that morning spoke of "Six near
misses" in Wichita over the past year. What they wanted from me
was, "my reaction" to this frigntening revelation and, "what do you
think the FAA should do about it?"
How do you explain a very complex set of facts involving
pilot responsability, limitations of government owned
facilities and personel, and limits imposed by the laws
of physics and the current state of the art in anti-collision
technology. . . . and squeeze it into a 1 minute or less?
What appeared on the 6:00 o'clock news was, "local pilot
sez FAA's equipment broke and airline passengers are doomed."
What they used from my interview was two sound bytes
pulled out of context that appeared to support the
premise of their "news blurp".
Since that time, I've declined to speak to anyone from the
so called "news" media. When asked, I tell them, "because
you never get it right."
Obviously, an in-depth feature story is different than trying
to explain physics of the universe to to a wild-eyed,
sensationalist reporter. BUT . . . there are still risks.
I'd recommend that you agree to support the piece. Heaven
knows that we can use all the positive publicity we can
get. Try to extract a promise from the reporter that you
are allowed to proof the FINAL article before it goes to
print. The pitfalls are that while your project may be the
leading particular of the article, someone ELSE may decide
to provide background about a couple of accidents involving
amateur built aircraft. While the intent may be well-meaning,
the result could be that your wife gets piles of condolance
letters suggesting that she keep your life insurance paid up,
"your gonna need it lady." Amateur built aviation doesn't need
that kind of exposure. The only way to avoid this is to
get personally involved in the whole production effort for
the piece. Left to their own devices, media reporters and
writers are dismal purveyors of fact. Give the reporter
a couple of issues of Sport Aviation to read.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-aviation ,
list-avionics ,
list-ez ,
list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket
| Subject: | Heated pitot tubes |
Hello builders,
I currently have a large stock of Heated Pitot Tubes in the popular
PH502-12 CR (formaly AN5812) and the AN5814 which has a heated static
source built in to it. Both of these pitot tubes are 12 volt.
I also have heated pitot tube mounting bracket kits for the above pitot
tubes.
There are other items that may be of interest to you for your project.
To see the above mentioned pitot tubes and mouting brackets and all the
rest of my products, look at my website at
http://www.gretzaero.com
You may contact me by phone in the evenings and on weekends. You may
also send me your order by way of my website.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | B & C Specialty Web Site? |
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Ludwig"
>
>Have been unable to locate the B & C Specialty web site. Does one exist?
>
>- Bill in Tucson
Yes . . .
They have a work-in-progress at:
http://www.BandCspecialty.com
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Mac Servo/Switch Question... |
> A quick question for those in the know. Im wiring the Mac Trim serve
>that is on my elevator to my Infinity control stick and have a bit of a
>question...!! The servo has 5 wires comming out of it: 2 control the
>forward/backward (up/down) movement of the trim servo screw..these are both
>white in color. The other 3, Blue/Green/and Orange connect into the
position
>indicator to indicate servo movement. The control stick that I am using
has
>3 wires (from the coolie hat control) that control pitch trim. The middle
>wire (and center postion on the switch) is a ground (black wire) The other
>two wires are Brown and Solid Blue and control up down movement. My
question
>is how does the servo get 12V power? I have wired everything per the plans
>of both the Mac servo and the control grip. I have checked the switches and
>wires with a volt/ohm meter and connections are good. The serve motor moves
>when directly attached to the battery. The only 12V input to the system is
>the Red/white stripped wire comming from the position indicator (light).
>Obviously I am missing something in the wiring setup or some additional part
>is required. I know it doesnt work because it isn't getting any 12V
>power.....just wondering how it is supposed to get that power or if maybe
the
>control stick is not compatible with the MAC servo. As always thanks ahead
>of time for your responses. Take care and happy building/flying!!!
MAC uses a permanent magnet motor where direction of rotation is determined
by polarity of the applied voltage . . . I've complained to MAC folks
at OSH booth many times about the two WHITE wires . . . they could be
different colors where on color is (+) extend and (+) retract . . . I
could put out ACCURATE wiring diagrams for their product. Two white wires
just doesn't cut . . .
Gunching aside, the trim swich in an Infinity grip will not directly
interface with a MAC servo. MAC sells a "relay deck" for this purpose.
You can also use a two pole, double throw, center off (on)-off-(on) rocker
switch to directly drive the servo's PM motor. The wiring with a
relay deck is shown at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/trim.pdf
If you want to build your own relay deck, two small relays
wired as shown in . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/trim2.pdf
will do the trick.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: (no subject) |
--> RV4-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List: (no subject) |
--> RV-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
Please unsubscribe me from all lists. Kurt Wegge ezzzpi(at)cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glide-Slope Ant |
Can the G-S Ant use the same antenna as the VOR? and be
connected via a di-plexer.......or tri-plexer???
You may run a glideslope receiver from your VOR antenna in addition
to the VOR NAV receiver. We'll have suitable couplers in stock in
a few days. See . . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/antenna/antenna.html#av-570
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aviation Swap Meet |
Listers:
I wanted to let all the lists know that there is an AVIATION SWAP MEET
on Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 6:00am at the NUT TREE airport in
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA (Vacaville). Go to htttp://www.solanopilots.com for
more information.
David Aronson
RV4 Firewall forward at last!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I'll defer that question to Bob or others, but if you want something a
>little more reliable, look for Gudebrod lacing cord at electronics
>distributors or surplus stores. A quick web search came up with several
>hits with this one the most promising:
>http://www.versatileindustrial.com/gudebrod.html A little more expensive
>than dental floss, but 500 yards sure goes a long way!
>
>By the way, there are definite techniques to tying the knot. You basically
>make two loops around the bundle and trap the first part of the knot under
>the outer loop. I'm not sure I can explain it - I'll see if I can find a
>reference, though, and reply direct if I come up with a drawing or
>instructions.
The knot you're thinking of is called a clove hitch. See
this done at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cablelace/cloveh_2.gif
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cablelace/cloveh_1.jpg
Tugging the ends will snug the lace around the bundle of wires.
Put an ordinary square knot on top to secure the tie.
I'll look into sources for smaller put-ups of cable lace.
March 28, 1999 - August 31, 2000
EZ-Archive.digest.vol-aa