Engines-Archive.digest.vol-am
May 07, 2005 - December 21, 2005
which is a superb cap, (maybe ball caps are what they should be selling
instead of oil) and a copy of the same info that is in the magazines for my
consumption, and that was that, not another word.
Then in the spring of 2005 I received a call from the, owner of the Tulsa
distributorship, saying he had a note where I had called and ask for info, and
could he help me; his desk must be worse than mine if he's just then getting
down to my request, after all that time.
I recapped all that had happened and he "assured" me (you all know how that
go's) that in the next few days, when he returned from some motorcycle races
that he's involved in, in Florida, that he was going to take care of my
needs, and would be right back with, "All the answers", and would come and give
a
presentation to all of us at our airport, OKM, where there are (3) major
engine re-builders/maintenance facilities.
Well here it is May, and not another peep from him either.
I have said all of this, to let all of you that may have seen AIR BP's ad's,
and wondered if "Castro Aviator" was as good as "they" say it is, know that
"AIR BP" apparently isn't very proud of their product, and doesn't care if
us in the aviation industry use it, or not.
So at this point I'll probably use Shell or Phillips multi-grade, as that is
what many of you out there on the list have recommended for my particular
needs for this airplane.
I'm always open to any body's input, so If you care to comment on which oil
you feel is best, please do.
Bill Byars
!949 T8F
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
<>
I would also like to hear from experienced users. One thing I usually do is
evaluate the oil consumption of the engine. If it is "good" then I would
consider semi-synthetic oil. If the consumption is on the high side I
usually use a "straight-weight" detergent oil. Reason? Cost. The
synthetic, because of the lower viscosity, will slightly reduce fuel
consumption, maybe by 1 or 2%. If the engine burns oil, why throw the extra
money away? Also, if the engine doesn't run very often the oil that's
thicker at ambient temp will take longer running off the cam lobes.
However, I saw an ad for some synthetic that bragged about preventing that,
so it would be interesting to get more comments. Incidentally, I've
typically used Shell, mostly because it is easier to find, but I've talked
to some that say that the Phillips oil has some advantages. There is also
folklore out there that says that engine rebuilders love Shell
semi-synthetic because of all the extra business they get from cam wear. I
don't think I buy that.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Sparling" <jhs_61(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | IO540-D4A5 VS. IO540-V4A5D |
I have an opportunity to purchase a new IO540-V4A5D for my RV-10 project and
would like to know if anyone can give me a summary of the difference between
it and the IO540-D4A5 that Van's recommends. Thank you in advance.
Jack Sparling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com> |
For the most part it's just preference or opinion or because it's what I've
always used. Well here's my opinion and what I currently use in all my
vehicles, including ATV, aircraft and Cummins diesel. Mobil One, 15000
miles between oil changes, easy to find. A little more expensive, but you
get what you pay for. Using cheap oil is really false economy, you pay for
it in the long run. Why be cheap with the least expensive and most
important maintenance item on your engine?
Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>
> < oil
> you feel is best, please do.>>
>
> I would also like to hear from experienced users. One thing I usually do
is
> evaluate the oil consumption of the engine. If it is "good" then I would
> consider semi-synthetic oil. If the consumption is on the high side I
> usually use a "straight-weight" detergent oil. Reason? Cost. The
> synthetic, because of the lower viscosity, will slightly reduce fuel
> consumption, maybe by 1 or 2%. If the engine burns oil, why throw the
extra
> money away? Also, if the engine doesn't run very often the oil that's
> thicker at ambient temp will take longer running off the cam lobes.
> However, I saw an ad for some synthetic that bragged about preventing
that,
> so it would be interesting to get more comments. Incidentally, I've
> typically used Shell, mostly because it is easier to find, but I've talked
> to some that say that the Phillips oil has some advantages. There is also
> folklore out there that says that engine rebuilders love Shell
> semi-synthetic because of all the extra business they get from cam wear.
I
> don't think I buy that.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
> --
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO540-D4A5 VS. IO540-V4A5D |
| From: | Marvin Dupree <97corvette(at)cox.net> |
I looked at my lycoming engines book and it looks like the engines are
setup the same. however, i would recommend you get the book and
research it better. the book no. is SSP-204 and is a lycoming
publication. The best i can see is as follows:
Book states: IO-540-D4A5 same as O-540-E4A5...260hp, 2700rpm,
100/100LL fuel, 8.50:1 compression but comes with Bendix fuel injection.
IO-540-V4A5D same as -T4B5D except for front mounted
fuel injection. -T4B5D same as -T4A5D except for fuel drain boss
location.
-T4A5D same as -D4B5 but has D6LN-3000 impulse
coupling dual Magneto and horizontal rear inlet fuel injector.
coupling magnetos.
-D4A5 same as O-540-E4A5 but with Bendix fuel
injection. (see above for specs on engine)
both engines start as an O-540-E4A5 and end up with similar
comfigurations. I suggest you call Lycoming at 800-258-3279, ask for
tech help and see what they say.
good luck
Marvin ...Mooney M20E based at 1L0
On Saturday, May 7, 2005, at 07:18 AM, Jack Sparling wrote:
>
> I have an opportunity to purchase a new IO540-V4A5D for my RV-10
> project and
> would like to know if anyone can give me a summary of the difference
> between
> it and the IO540-D4A5 that Van's recommends. Thank you in advance.
>
> Jack Sparling
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
I have some third hand input that supports the Mobile One. For what it is
worth.
Mobile One was recommended to me by another Vari EZ driver at my airport. He
said he picked up 5 knots in his EZ just by switching to this oil.
What made him try it was some advice from a drag racing buddy. He asked,
"What is the fastest oil?" and Mobile One was the answer.
So, apparently this oil results in less friction, less heat generated and
more horsepower to the prop. Whether that means less engine wear or longer
engine life remains to be seen.
J. Healy
jhealy(at)socal.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>
> For the most part it's just preference or opinion or because it's what
I've
> always used. Well here's my opinion and what I currently use in all my
> vehicles, including ATV, aircraft and Cummins diesel. Mobil One, 15000
> miles between oil changes, easy to find. A little more expensive, but you
> get what you pay for. Using cheap oil is really false economy, you pay
for
> it in the long run. Why be cheap with the least expensive and most
> important maintenance item on your engine?
>
> Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
> To:
> Subject: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>
>
> >
> > < > oil
> > you feel is best, please do.>>
> >
> > I would also like to hear from experienced users. One thing I usually
do
> is
> > evaluate the oil consumption of the engine. If it is "good" then I
would
> > consider semi-synthetic oil. If the consumption is on the high side I
> > usually use a "straight-weight" detergent oil. Reason? Cost. The
> > synthetic, because of the lower viscosity, will slightly reduce fuel
> > consumption, maybe by 1 or 2%. If the engine burns oil, why throw the
> extra
> > money away? Also, if the engine doesn't run very often the oil that's
> > thicker at ambient temp will take longer running off the cam lobes.
> > However, I saw an ad for some synthetic that bragged about preventing
> that,
> > so it would be interesting to get more comments. Incidentally, I've
> > typically used Shell, mostly because it is easier to find, but I've
talked
> > to some that say that the Phillips oil has some advantages. There is
also
> > folklore out there that says that engine rebuilders love Shell
> > semi-synthetic because of all the extra business they get from cam wear.
> I
> > don't think I buy that.
> >
> > Gary Casey
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO540-D4A5 VS. IO540-V4A5D |
<>
As was reported before the substantive difference is that the -V engine has
a forward-facing air inlet while the -D has an downward-facing inlet. Oops,
don't forget that the -V model you can get has the Bendix "dual" mag(the "D"
at the end of the model number), which is very controversial, although the
records seem to show it has equivalent reliability of single mags if
maintained properly. If the packaging of your aircraft is set up for the
bottom inlet it will be a significant effort to change things around.
However, for ram air recovery the front inlet is usually preferred. I have
a vested interest - I have a -D engine and I am converting it to a front
inlet with an adaptor. If you get the -V engine but would like the bottom
inlet I would be interested in exchanging oil sumps.
Gary Casey
Lancair ES/IO-540-D4A5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Kermanj <rv10es(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO540-D4A5 VS. IO540-V4A5D |
Go to Lycoming site and fined Document #SSP-204. It lists all the
differences.
Rob.
On May 8, 2005, at 8:54 AM, Gary Casey wrote:
>
> < project
> and
> would like to know if anyone can give me a summary of the difference
> between
> it and the IO540-D4A5 that Van's recommends.
> Jack Sparling>>
>
> As was reported before the substantive difference is that the -V
> engine has
> a forward-facing air inlet while the -D has an downward-facing inlet.
> Oops,
> don't forget that the -V model you can get has the Bendix "dual"
> mag(the "D"
> at the end of the model number), which is very controversial, although
> the
> records seem to show it has equivalent reliability of single mags if
> maintained properly. If the packaging of your aircraft is set up for
> the
> bottom inlet it will be a significant effort to change things around.
> However, for ram air recovery the front inlet is usually preferred. I
> have
> a vested interest - I have a -D engine and I am converting it to a
> front
> inlet with an adaptor. If you get the -V engine but would like the
> bottom
> inlet I would be interested in exchanging oil sumps.
>
> Gary Casey
> Lancair ES/IO-540-D4A5
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Baldwin <jamesbaldwin(at)dc.rr.com> |
Gentlemen -
This type of ridiculous claim is usually the result of very imperfect
control of the factors related to the comparison mentioned below.
Theory, and physics, seldom err and in this case the speed increase
of an aircraft is proportional to the cube root of the horsepower ratio
of the comparison, ALL OTHER FACTORS REMAINING THE SAME. This is seldom
achieved as has been proven by the CAFE Foundation in Santa Rosa,
California. It got to the point where their comparisons of aircraft
performance got down to atmospheric stability variables (air rising in a
low pressure ambient or falling in a high pressure influence) which were
not only hard to define, but impossible to control.
A 5 knot speed increase from (Varieze 100 HP O-200) somewhere around 140
knots to 145 knots would represent a 3.6% gain. This equates to an
11.2% gain in horsepower. From a motor oil change? Highly doubtful
and for sure unproven on a fleet basis. This sounds like the genesis
of a conversation after too many beers.
This theory was proven empirically to me when my friend replaced his 150
HP O320 in his Grumman Cheetah with a 180 HP O360, turning it into a
Grumman Tiger. We knew the performance of the Cheetah from experience
and guess what? The 20% gain in horsepower resulted in about 5-6% gain
in IAS (the approximate cube root of the HP ratio). I knew better than
to nail it down any closer than that because of the previously mentioned
variables that are almost impossible to control. If you have further
interest go to their website and read up. By the way -- I won a beer
on that one. JBB
Joe Healy wrote:
>
>I have some third hand input that supports the Mobile One. For what it is
>worth.
>Mobile One was recommended to me by another Vari EZ driver at my airport. He
>said he picked up 5 knots in his EZ just by switching to this oil.
>What made him try it was some advice from a drag racing buddy. He asked,
>"What is the fastest oil?" and Mobile One was the answer.
>So, apparently this oil results in less friction, less heat generated and
>more horsepower to the prop. Whether that means less engine wear or longer
>engine life remains to be seen.
>
>J. Healy
>jhealy(at)socal.rr.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Martin" <lrm(at)isp.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>
>
>
>
>>
>>For the most part it's just preference or opinion or because it's what
>>
>>
>I've
>
>
>>always used. Well here's my opinion and what I currently use in all my
>>vehicles, including ATV, aircraft and Cummins diesel. Mobil One, 15000
>>miles between oil changes, easy to find. A little more expensive, but you
>>get what you pay for. Using cheap oil is really false economy, you pay
>>
>>
>for
>
>
>>it in the long run. Why be cheap with the least expensive and most
>>important maintenance item on your engine?
>>
>>Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>><>>
>>>
>which
>
>
>>>oil
>>>you feel is best, please do.>>
>>>
>>>I would also like to hear from experienced users. One thing I usually
>>>
>>>
>do
>
>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>evaluate the oil consumption of the engine. If it is "good" then I
>>>
>>>
>would
>
>
>>>consider semi-synthetic oil. If the consumption is on the high side I
>>>usually use a "straight-weight" detergent oil. Reason? Cost. The
>>>synthetic, because of the lower viscosity, will slightly reduce fuel
>>>consumption, maybe by 1 or 2%. If the engine burns oil, why throw the
>>>
>>>
>>extra
>>
>>
>>>money away? Also, if the engine doesn't run very often the oil that's
>>>thicker at ambient temp will take longer running off the cam lobes.
>>>However, I saw an ad for some synthetic that bragged about preventing
>>>
>>>
>>that,
>>
>>
>>>so it would be interesting to get more comments. Incidentally, I've
>>>typically used Shell, mostly because it is easier to find, but I've
>>>
>>>
>talked
>
>
>>>to some that say that the Phillips oil has some advantages. There is
>>>
>>>
>also
>
>
>>>folklore out there that says that engine rebuilders love Shell
>>>semi-synthetic because of all the extra business they get from cam wear.
>>>
>>>
>>I
>>
>>
>>>don't think I buy that.
>>>
>>>Gary Casey
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James R. Cunningham" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
James Baldwin wrote:
> A 5 knot speed increase from (Varieze 100 HP O-200) somewhere around 140
> knots to 145 knots would represent a 3.6% gain. This equates to an
> 11.2% gain in horsepower.
I got 11.11% when I ran the numbers. I don't think I'm going to argue about the
difference. An 11% increase in horsepower is sure more than I would expect from
an oil change though.JimC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
OK boys, calm down.
It looks like I really hit a bandstand nerve, as some were quick to whip out
their HP 41C's. Nice touch, Spock, with the two decimal place correction.
Well I have to admit that I can't argue with the fundamental cubic
relationship between power and air speed.
James, I checked out the CAFE site, but there is nothing there about the
effects of various oils on air speed or engine power. There is a nice one on
the effects of a wax job though.
My first response was to add to the Cummins diesel experience posted by
Larry Martin. I was only passing along a related experience, that of a
professional drag racing team which found that using Mobil One could shave a
few hundredths of a second from their quarter mile times. On the basis of
that information, another EZ pilot I know tried Mobile One in his EZ and
found lower engine temperatures and noticeable speed increase. He claimed a
5 knot increase.
Now we could probably expect that he rounded off to the nearest 5 knots.
Perhaps he even exaggerated a bit, I don't know. This was not a scientific
test and that was never the point. The point was that he noticed an
improvement in both air speed and oil temperatures. How much is debatable.
Now if you are suggesting that he imagined the whole thing based on your
calculations then I'll make a note of that.
J. Healy
----- Original Message -----
From: "James R. Cunningham" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: RE: OIL
>
>
> James Baldwin wrote:
>
> > A 5 knot speed increase from (Varieze 100 HP O-200) somewhere around 140
> > knots to 145 knots would represent a 3.6% gain. This equates to an
> > 11.2% gain in horsepower.
>
> I got 11.11% when I ran the numbers. I don't think I'm going to argue
about the
> difference. An 11% increase in horsepower is sure more than I would
expect from
> an oil change though.JimC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Larkin" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
I have seen and used both the Shell Semi and strait weight oils. The
only differences I have noted on airplanes that are flown (not sitting
for months at a time or rarely flown at all) is the consistently lower
valve train wear and or less to no sticking valve problems with the
semi-synthetic oils vs. the strait weight oils.
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Casey
Subject: Engines-List: RE: OIL
<>
I would also like to hear from experienced users. One thing I usually
do is
evaluate the oil consumption of the engine. If it is "good" then I
would
consider semi-synthetic oil. If the consumption is on the high side I
usually use a "straight-weight" detergent oil. Reason? Cost. The
synthetic, because of the lower viscosity, will slightly reduce fuel
consumption, maybe by 1 or 2%. If the engine burns oil, why throw the
extra
money away? Also, if the engine doesn't run very often the oil that's
thicker at ambient temp will take longer running off the cam lobes.
However, I saw an ad for some synthetic that bragged about preventing
that,
so it would be interesting to get more comments. Incidentally, I've
typically used Shell, mostly because it is easier to find, but I've
talked
to some that say that the Phillips oil has some advantages. There is
also
folklore out there that says that engine rebuilders love Shell
semi-synthetic because of all the extra business they get from cam wear.
I
don't think I buy that.
Gary Casey
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Posting suggestion |
I subscribe to the digest version, which is getting longer and longer every
day because everyone seems to be adding the complete digest to every
message.
Suggestion: After you hit "reply" to reply to a post, select the post, or
better yet, and excerpt from the post and hit "control-C" to copy (like I
did on the post below). Then hit "control-A" to select the entire message,
followed by "delete" to erase everything. Then hit "control-V" to paste the
copied excerpt back in and start typing. A huge savings in bandwidth and
then I don't have to scroll down through endless repetitions to find the
message.
Note the number of "greater than" marks in front of the line below - that's
how many times it's been repeated. Thank you everyone.
> > >>>>>For the most part it's just
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Install Manifold Pressure? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
Can someone please tell me what kind of fitting to install in the
manifold for manifold pressure. My GRT engine monitor requires a hose
from the fitting to the unit, but doesn't explain what kind of fitting
to install nor where to install it. Thanks for any help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Install Manifold Pressure? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<>
I'm doing the same thing and haven't yet decided. The typical engine
fitting for a Lycoming is a 1/8 pipe thread and on certified engines is
often a -2 AN steel line (1/8 steel tubing) and on my Cessna it is coiled
for about 3 turns between the engine and airframe to take up the vibration.
Since there is little pressure in the system and it isn't a flight-safety
item I think a hose barb with pretty much any size hose to the sensor would
work. The sensor they provide assumes a 1/8 hose connection. A simple
Tygon tube won't, I believe, tolerate the temperature so I would find a
black rubber hose (windshield washer?) to go from hose barb to hose barb.
Don't want to rely on the barb to keep the hose attached? Then use safety
wire to make a tiny hose clamp. I wind the wire around twice so the rubber
doesn't get pinched in the twist. This is one place I wouldn't get carried
away with elaborate "aircraft-grade" hardware. Incidentally, it's best to
run the hose uphill to the sensor. That usually isn't practical so at least
run it uphill for the last few inches to the sensor and have the sensor port
facing downward. The intent is to keep water out of the sensor.
That's what I would do. I'm using a different style MAP sensor so what I do
won't apply.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Install Manifold Pressure? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Joe Healy"
My manifold pressure line is connected to the existing Lycoming primer port
tap on the number 4 cylinder. I am told it is a standard plumbing NPT
(national pipe thread) thread pattern.
P.S. The primer is only piped to the two cylinders on the other side of the
engine. The remaining primer port is plugged.
Joe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Engines-List: RE: Install Manifold Pressure?
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
>
> < manifold for manifold pressure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manifold Pressure? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<>
Yes, it is a standard 1/8 pipe thread. Some people feel it is desirable to
run primer lines to all cylinders, which eliminates the port that could be
used for MAP. Also, connecting the MAP to a common point in the plenum will
give a more representative pressure with less pulsations. This was actually
certified as a service bulletin on the Cessna TR182 as a fix for a pulsating
gauge. Problem is on a lot of engines there is no port available to do this
without making one. Not hard to do, but with a certified installation not
likely to be approved.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n223b(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manifold Pressure? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: n223b(at)comcast.net
Actually, on some engines there is a drain port that is normally plugged at the
low point on the intake plenum. Don't use this is a manifold pressure port.
Amazingly, engine oil, probably from the intake guides, accumulates at the bottom
of the intake manifold. If you tap into your intake manifold at the bottom
you'll eventually get oil in your manifold pressure sensing apparatus. Oil
in the MP system may or may not be a problem but I don't think its worth the
risk.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
>
> <> port
> tap on the number 4 cylinder. I am told it is a standard plumbing NPT
> (national pipe thread) thread pattern.
> P.S. The primer is only piped to the two cylinders on the other side of the
> engine. The remaining primer port is plugged.>>
>
> Yes, it is a standard 1/8 pipe thread. Some people feel it is desirable to
> run primer lines to all cylinders, which eliminates the port that could be
> used for MAP. Also, connecting the MAP to a common point in the plenum will
> give a more representative pressure with less pulsations. This was actually
> certified as a service bulletin on the Cessna TR182 as a fix for a pulsating
> gauge. Problem is on a lot of engines there is no port available to do this
> without making one. Not hard to do, but with a certified installation not
> likely to be approved.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
>
>
>
>
Actually, on some engines there is a drain port that is normally plugged at the
low point on the intake plenum. Don't use this is a manifold pressure port. Amazingly,
engine oil, probably from the intake guides, accumulates at the bottom
of the intake manifold. If you tap into your intake manifold at the bottom
you'll eventually get oil in your manifold pressure sensing apparatus. Oil in
the MP system may or may not be a problem but I don't think its worth the risk.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
| From: | "Mike Lehman" <lehmans(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manifold Pressure? |
Several Lycoming installation drawings show 2 such ports (all I've seen are
1/8" NPT) identified as fuel drains. Can't say that I have ever noticed
but, I presume that the airframe manufacturer may elect to use the most
convenient port to drain accumulated fuel in the event of a fail to start.
Without an automatic valve that closes with intake manifold suction, this
drain would be a small unfiltered inlet air leak which the idle speed and
mixture adjustments would compensate for.
As Bob says, there will be some oil at the bottom of the plenum. At idle,
the pressure differential pushing oil down the intake valve guides is
greatest and the intake air flow flushing this oil into cylinders is least.
If one of these ports is used for manifold pressure, pick the highest one
and loop the hose to form a trap to help keep fluid from the gauge or
sensor. Maybe use transparent hose to see the accumulation easily.
Mike
Actually, on some engines there is a drain port that is normally plugged at
the
low point on the intake plenum. Don't use this is a manifold pressure port.
Amazingly, engine oil, probably from the intake guides, accumulates at the
bottom
of the intake manifold. If you tap into your intake manifold at the bottom
you'll eventually get oil in your manifold pressure sensing apparatus. Oil
in the MP system may or may not be a problem but I don't think its worth the
risk.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Install Manifold Pressure? |
Thanks Gary and to all others who answered. My engine came with primer
to three of the four cylinders. The right rear cylinder port is
available for MP, so I will install a hose barb there. E-Mag supplies a
silicone hose for manifold pressure, so I will just look for a source of
the same stuff, when I get my P-Mags delivered, which should be any day
now. I was worried that windshield washer hose wouldn't stand up to the
heat, being a mere centimeter from the cylinder head. Vacuum hose
would, I'm sure, but silicone should be good to 450 degrees F or so.
I'll use a restrictor fitting just in case the hose should fail someday.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Casey
Subject: Engines-List: Re: Install Manifold Pressure?
<>
Yes, it is a standard 1/8 pipe thread. Some people feel it is desirable
to
run primer lines to all cylinders, which eliminates the port that could
be
used for MAP. Also, connecting the MAP to a common point in the plenum
will
give a more representative pressure with less pulsations. This was
actually
certified as a service bulletin on the Cessna TR182 as a fix for a
pulsating
gauge. Problem is on a lot of engines there is no port available to do
this
without making one. Not hard to do, but with a certified installation
not
likely to be approved.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Propeller question (OFF TOPIC) |
Sorry for posting this slightly off-topic question here, but there isn't
a Matronics PROPELLER list, yet, and last time I checked, propellers are
attached directly to the engine [:-]
According to Nathan Richmond of Cubcrafters, in the Cubcrafters forum
five years ago, they have sold McCauley 1P235AFA8442 propellers for
experimental Super Cubs with 180 hp engines, and the performance was
superior to anything certified for that engine/airframe in climb and
cruise. That propeller is certified only for Lycoming O-540 and IO-540
series engines with one 5th and one 6th-order crankshaft damper
configuration (up to 260 hp @2700 rpm.)
According to one source, "There are about a half a dozen or more 180 hp
cubs here in Alaska that are flying this prop. The guys that have them,
got a field approval about two years ago. [c. 1998] It started off with
just a couple of guys and then got out of hand so the FAA clamped down.
They will no longer field approve them. From what the owner/pilots say
they really like this prop. Better take off, cruise, two turns off the
trim crank. Greg"
Since there is not going to be any vibration testing of this propeller
on O-360 engines, it appears that all we have as a database is the
experience of the half dozen or so planes with this combination. Has
anyone ever heard of a prop failure in this little group?
Second question. I don't know what a "5th order and 6th order
crankshaft damper configuration" is, and wonder if there is any
comparability between that and the "dynamically balanced VAR crankshaft"
in my Mattituck TMX-0360 engine.
I would like to use this propeller, but don't particularly want to die
proving to myself how great it is.
Thanks in advance to all who may have light to shed.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller question (OFF TOPIC) |
Hi All,
There are two MT propellers available for the Lycoming 360 engine. Any
Lycoming 360 engine.
No mid range RPM restriction on any Lycoming 360 engine.
There is an aluminum 2 blade CS MT Propeller. MTV-15-B/183-402
Propeller and spinner weigh around 56 pounds.
List price - $6,399 plus shipping and any applicable sales tax.
There is also the 3 blade CS MT Propeller. MTV-12-B/183-59b
Propeller and spinner weigh around 44 pounds.
List Price - $9,380 plus shipping and any applicable sales tax.
Click on _www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com) and go to the
"Lycoming 360 propeller" page.
The vibration survey has already been completed, so you will NOT be testing
an unproven propeller design.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 05/22/2005 8:24:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jgswartout(at)earthlink.net writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
Sorry for posting this slightly off-topic question here, but there isn't
a Matronics PROPELLER list, yet, and last time I checked, propellers are
attached directly to the engine [:-]
According to Nathan Richmond of Cubcrafters, in the Cubcrafters forum
five years ago, they have sold McCauley 1P235AFA8442 propellers for
experimental Super Cubs with 180 hp engines, and the performance was
superior to anything certified for that engine/airframe in climb and
cruise. That propeller is certified only for Lycoming O-540 and IO-540
series engines with one 5th and one 6th-order crankshaft damper
configuration (up to 260 hp @2700 rpm.)
According to one source, "There are about a half a dozen or more 180 hp
cubs here in Alaska that are flying this prop. The guys that have them,
got a field approval about two years ago. [c. 1998] It started off with
just a couple of guys and then got out of hand so the FAA clamped down.
They will no longer field approve them. From what the owner/pilots say
they really like this prop. Better take off, cruise, two turns off the
trim crank. Greg"
Since there is not going to be any vibration testing of this propeller
on O-360 engines, it appears that all we have as a database is the
experience of the half dozen or so planes with this combination. Has
anyone ever heard of a prop failure in this little group?
Second question. I don't know what a "5th order and 6th order
crankshaft damper configuration" is, and wonder if there is any
comparability between that and the "dynamically balanced VAR crankshaft"
in my Mattituck TMX-0360 engine.
I would like to use this propeller, but don't particularly want to die
proving to myself how great it is.
Thanks in advance to all who may have light to shed.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roberto Giusti <roby(at)mail.com> |
| Subject: | Converting Lycoming from CS to FP |
I just received a lycoming O-360 A1A from the engine builder.
Even thoug I specified that I would use a fixed pitch prop, I got the
engine without the SD-1211 expansion plug installed and with the plug
behind the oil return tube still intact.
When I called the engine builder he said that if I NEVER wanted to
revert to a constant speed prop I should follow Lycoming S.I. 1435.
On the other hand, If I thought I would one day install a CS prop, I
should just install the SD-1211 plug and leave the other one intact.
He said that if I punched a hole in the rear plug it would be very
difficult to replace it for CS prop operationsin the future.
Now my reasoning is that if Lycoming bothers to print a Service
instruction there must be a reason and I don't feel very comfotable by
not following it, so my question to the experts is:
why do I need to punch a hole in the rear plug?
what exactly happens if I don't? ( the builder said that I would need to
check the crankshaft for corrosion once a year).
If I do punch a hole in the rear plug how difficult is it to reconvert
to CS prop operations?
TIA for the advice
Roberto Giusti
RV8 engine installation in Italy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Danny Lawhon <dlawhon(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Converting Lycoming from CS to FP |
What I have learned is this, leave the plug
alone and install the front plug, on mine
I left the plug out in back so I could install
one later if I choose to move to cs prop,
with out opening the case, the area between can have
issues, and should have been painted with a coating
for prevention of pits, If you drill a hole in it then
the motor will come appart to put another plug
in, getting them out is the hard part, putting one
in with a special tool is not so bad, or so they
say.. the oil line is offset a little and with a
proper tool can be driven in fairly straight..
ymmv..
Danny..
--- Roberto Giusti wrote:
>
>
> I just received a lycoming O-360 A1A from the engine
> builder.
>
> Even thoug I specified that I would use a fixed
> pitch prop, I got the
> engine without the SD-1211 expansion plug installed
> and with the plug
> behind the oil return tube still intact.
>
> When I called the engine builder he said that if I
> NEVER wanted to
> revert to a constant speed prop I should follow
> Lycoming S.I. 1435.
> On the other hand, If I thought I would one day
> install a CS prop, I
> should just install the SD-1211 plug and leave the
> other one intact.
>
> He said that if I punched a hole in the rear plug it
> would be very
> difficult to replace it for CS prop operationsin the
> future.
>
> Now my reasoning is that if Lycoming bothers to
> print a Service
> instruction there must be a reason and I don't feel
> very comfotable by
> not following it, so my question to the experts is:
>
> why do I need to punch a hole in the rear plug?
>
> what exactly happens if I don't? ( the builder said
> that I would need to
> check the crankshaft for corrosion once a year).
>
> If I do punch a hole in the rear plug how difficult
> is it to reconvert
> to CS prop operations?
>
> TIA for the advice
>
> Roberto Giusti
> RV8 engine installation in Italy
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Converting Lycoming from CS to FP |
Roberto
Just been through the same decision myself. You should definitely have the conversion
done fully if you want to go fixed pitch otherwise you are interfering
with the designed oil flow. The conversion back to FP is possible without splitting
the crankcase but very tricky. My thinking was to go fixed pitch and then
if I ever want CS to use an electric or do it when I had some reason to split
the crankcase
best regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roberto Giusti" <roby(at)mail.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Converting Lycoming from CS to FP
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:50:22 +0200
>
>
> I just received a lycoming O-360 A1A from the engine builder.
>
> Even thoug I specified that I would use a fixed pitch prop, I got the
> engine without the SD-1211 expansion plug installed and with the plug
> behind the oil return tube still intact.
>
> When I called the engine builder he said that if I NEVER wanted to
> revert to a constant speed prop I should follow Lycoming S.I. 1435.
> On the other hand, If I thought I would one day install a CS prop, I
> should just install the SD-1211 plug and leave the other one intact.
>
> He said that if I punched a hole in the rear plug it would be very
> difficult to replace it for CS prop operationsin the future.
>
> Now my reasoning is that if Lycoming bothers to print a Service
> instruction there must be a reason and I don't feel very comfotable by
> not following it, so my question to the experts is:
>
> why do I need to punch a hole in the rear plug?
>
> what exactly happens if I don't? ( the builder said that I would need to
> check the crankshaft for corrosion once a year).
>
> If I do punch a hole in the rear plug how difficult is it to reconvert
> to CS prop operations?
>
> TIA for the advice
>
> Roberto Giusti
> RV8 engine installation in Italy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swartout" <jgswartout(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Propeller question (OFF TOPIC) |
Is that CS prop electrically or hydraulically controlled? My engine is
not built for oil-powered prop governors. I am, however, confined to
metal, because this is a float plane.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Propeller question (OFF TOPIC)
Hi All,
There are two MT propellers available for the Lycoming 360 engine. Any
Lycoming 360 engine.
No mid range RPM restriction on any Lycoming 360 engine.
There is an aluminum 2 blade CS MT Propeller. MTV-15-B/183-402
Propeller and spinner weigh around 56 pounds.
List price - $6,399 plus shipping and any applicable sales tax.
There is also the 3 blade CS MT Propeller. MTV-12-B/183-59b
Propeller and spinner weigh around 44 pounds.
List Price - $9,380 plus shipping and any applicable sales tax.
Click on _www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com) and go to the
"Lycoming 360 propeller" page.
The vibration survey has already been completed, so you will NOT be
testing
an unproven propeller design.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 05/22/2005 8:24:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jgswartout(at)earthlink.net writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
Sorry for posting this slightly off-topic question here, but there
isn't
a Matronics PROPELLER list, yet, and last time I checked, propellers
are
attached directly to the engine [:-]
According to Nathan Richmond of Cubcrafters, in the Cubcrafters forum
five years ago, they have sold McCauley 1P235AFA8442 propellers for
experimental Super Cubs with 180 hp engines, and the performance was
superior to anything certified for that engine/airframe in climb and
cruise. That propeller is certified only for Lycoming O-540 and IO-540
series engines with one 5th and one 6th-order crankshaft damper
configuration (up to 260 hp @2700 rpm.)
According to one source, "There are about a half a dozen or more 180 hp
cubs here in Alaska that are flying this prop. The guys that have them,
got a field approval about two years ago. [c. 1998] It started off with
just a couple of guys and then got out of hand so the FAA clamped down.
They will no longer field approve them. From what the owner/pilots say
they really like this prop. Better take off, cruise, two turns off the
trim crank. Greg"
Since there is not going to be any vibration testing of this propeller
on O-360 engines, it appears that all we have as a database is the
experience of the half dozen or so planes with this combination. Has
anyone ever heard of a prop failure in this little group?
Second question. I don't know what a "5th order and 6th order
crankshaft damper configuration" is, and wonder if there is any
comparability between that and the "dynamically balanced VAR
crankshaft"
in my Mattituck TMX-0360 engine.
I would like to use this propeller, but don't particularly want to die
proving to myself how great it is.
Thanks in advance to all who may have light to shed.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | high egt #2 cylinder |
I have an IO360A!A with egt/cht probes on each cylinder. No. 2 cylinder is my
hottest for both egt/cht with egt at times 300 deg hotter than #1 at times , #2
1500-1550deg while cht may be 350-400. We have changed injectors with no change,
changed plugs & range no change, checked baffling, closed off oil cooler
behind #4 cyl (to check baffling also)no change. Some have suggested a possible
exhaust valve leak. Would this show up on a compression check with a cold
engine or does it need to be warmed?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Jihostroj prop governors |
I'm curious if anyone has any experience with these prop governors. I've
got one installed on my IO-540, but haven't yet run it. It has the
advantage of being a few pounds lighter than the standard one and is 2
inches shorter, improving my inlet ducting a lot.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Baldwin <jamesbaldwin(at)dc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: high egt #2 cylinder |
Dave -
Have you carefully checked the location of the EGT probe and its
relative orientation to the others? You didn't mention the CHTs of all
cylinders. What are they? It doesn't SOUND (emphasised because we need
more data) like a mechanical issue as much as an sensing/indication
issue. Did you swap EGT probes? The location of the probe in relation
to the flame front from the exhaust port is really important on a
RELATIVE basis. Whose system are you using? How did the plugs look
relative to the other cylnders? A standard compression check, performed
on a warm engine, will also tell us a lot. JBB
dave wrote:
>
>I have an IO360A!A with egt/cht probes on each cylinder. No. 2 cylinder is my
hottest for both egt/cht with egt at times 300 deg hotter than #1 at times ,
#2 1500-1550deg while cht may be 350-400. We have changed injectors with no change,
changed plugs & range no change, checked baffling, closed off oil cooler
behind #4 cyl (to check baffling also)no change. Some have suggested a possible
exhaust valve leak. Would this show up on a compression check with a cold
engine or does it need to be warmed?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller question (OFF TOPIC) |
Hi John,
The CS aluminum 2 blade MT propeller is hydraulic controlled only.
The CS 3 blade MT propeller is available with an electric or hydraulic
controller.
This blade has a stainless steel leading edge. It is a certified propeller
design which meets the rain and ice impact requires of the FAA.
The MT propeller blades meet the same requirements as an aluminum propeller.
The stainless steel leading edge is just three times more resistant to
damage than an aluminum blade.
There are two recommendations for the MT propeller on a floatplane.
Order the propeller with the extra corrosion protection for the internal
parts. $300 extra.
Order the blades painted Dull Gray with Gloss White tips. Free optional
colors.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 05/23/2005 11:14:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jgswartout(at)earthlink.net writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: "John Swartout"
Is that CS prop electrically or hydraulically controlled? My engine is
not built for oil-powered prop governors. I am, however, confined to
metal, because this is a float plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TBelvin38(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Interesting log re: engine fire |
jwilliams116(at)juno.com, phil.randall(at)faa.gov
I really want to know what caused this as I am sure others do to. I think
the pilot handled
it well!
Tom
(Vircom SMTPRS 4.1.361.0) with ESMTP id for
;
From: "Jill Flink" <jillflink(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Interesting log re: engine fire
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 07:57:51 -0400
Hi Y'all,
The following was a fascinating first hand report with photos of an engine
failure, with good photos. It came from another bulletin board. I thought it
might be useful for your review. J!LL
http://carneyaviation.com/enginefire/
This list provided courtesy of Safe Data, Inc.
To leave send an email to eaa1114-request(at)safedataisp.net with the Keyword LEAVE
in the body.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Larkin" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | high egt #2 cylinder |
Check between the cooling fins very closely. I was dealing with a
customer with a Cardinal that had a similar problem and we tried
everything without success. We found that during the casting and
painting of the cylinders that some of the cooling fins had some
blockages and rough edges. It didn't seem like much at the time but we
cleaned them up to get better air flow and the CHT came down 60-80 deg,
all that by just smoothing and cleaning up the cooling fins.
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Baldwin
Subject: Re: Engines-List: high egt #2 cylinder
Dave -
Have you carefully checked the location of the EGT probe and its
relative orientation to the others? You didn't mention the CHTs of all
cylinders. What are they? It doesn't SOUND (emphasised because we need
more data) like a mechanical issue as much as an sensing/indication
issue. Did you swap EGT probes? The location of the probe in relation
to the flame front from the exhaust port is really important on a
RELATIVE basis. Whose system are you using? How did the plugs look
relative to the other cylnders? A standard compression check, performed
on a warm engine, will also tell us a lot. JBB
dave wrote:
>
>I have an IO360A!A with egt/cht probes on each cylinder. No. 2
cylinder is my hottest for both egt/cht with egt at times 300 deg hotter
than #1 at times , #2 1500-1550deg while cht may be 350-400. We have
changed injectors with no change, changed plugs & range no change,
checked baffling, closed off oil cooler behind #4 cyl (to check baffling
also)no change. Some have suggested a possible exhaust valve leak.
Would this show up on a compression check with a cold engine or does it
need to be warmed?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
>
>
>
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Larkin" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
Jim,
Just checking on the status of my prop, any word on the shipment from
Germany? Just tying up loose ends here and trying to staying on top of
orders... Have a great day.
Regards,
Mike Larkin
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop delivery? |
Hi Mike,
I'm watching for your propeller delivery pretty close myself.
MT Propeller had been giving me a 10 week delivery time for most of this
year. Then they gave me a six week delivery time for your propeller. About two
weeks quicker than their shortest normal delivery time. Go figure.
They said they had a space open on their schedule, and could complete the
propeller on time. I believe your propeller delivery is waiting for your
governor. I should have an update from MT Propeller this Friday. (Thursday is
a
national holiday in Germany.)
For deliveries of customers propellers to myself for assembly, sometimes the
first delivery notification has been the arrival of the boxes. UPS is
faster than a FAX machine? :-)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 05/25/2005 11:36:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mlas(at)cox.net writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Mike Larkin"
Jim,
Just checking on the status of my prop, any word on the shipment from
Germany? Just tying up loose ends here and trying to staying on top of
orders... Have a great day.
Regards,
Mike Larkin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory Case Removal |
I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming 0-235.
I took out all the bolts but the gasket is holding it together pretty good.
Does anyone have any techniques for causing it to separate without scoring
the mating surfaces?
Joe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Ochs <jochs(at)froody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory Case Removal |
I don't know the specifics of that engine, but on others I've been able
to tap the part gently with a soft mallet and break the gasket loose
once the bolts are completely out.
James
Joe Healy wrote:
>
>I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming 0-235.
>I took out all the bolts but the gasket is holding it together pretty good.
>Does anyone have any techniques for causing it to separate without scoring
>the mating surfaces?
>
>Joe.
>
>
>
>
--
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself
at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory Case Removal |
I tried that with a leather mallet (a sledge hammer with a head like a dog
chew bone). I didn't hit it very hard for fear of cracking the housing. I
figured I should ask the experts before pounding away like a cave man.
I was wondering if there was a secret kung-fu pressure point to aim for. Or
maybe a Lycoming pry apart tool #2o02587a9sa87.... .
My next attempt would be to try to delaminate the gasket with a single edge
razor blade. Any suggestions?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
>
> I don't know the specifics of that engine, but on others I've been able
> to tap the part gently with a soft mallet and break the gasket loose
> once the bolts are completely out.
>
> James
>
> Joe Healy wrote:
> >I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming
0-235.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory Case Removal |
On the stubborn ones, I use a putty knife, and tap it in
all around the cover/sump, etc. A bit at a time, with each
application 180 deg from the last.
Takes a little time, but always works.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Accessory Case Removal
>
> I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming
> 0-235.
> I took out all the bolts but the gasket is holding it together pretty
> good.
> Does anyone have any techniques for causing it to separate without scoring
> the mating surfaces?
>
> Joe.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wes Hobbs" <weshobbs(at)starband.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory Case Removal |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on cassiopeia
Joe, The rear case has 2 5/16" dowel pins. recomend loosen pan bolts, the it
should come out easier. You might even save the pan gasket. -----Wes-----
Original Message -----
From: "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Accessory Case Removal
>
> I tried that with a leather mallet (a sledge hammer with a head like a dog
> chew bone). I didn't hit it very hard for fear of cracking the housing. I
> figured I should ask the experts before pounding away like a cave man.
>
> I was wondering if there was a secret kung-fu pressure point to aim for.
> Or
> maybe a Lycoming pry apart tool #2o02587a9sa87.... .
>
> My next attempt would be to try to delaminate the gasket with a single
> edge
> razor blade. Any suggestions?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
>>
>> I don't know the specifics of that engine, but on others I've been able
>> to tap the part gently with a soft mallet and break the gasket loose
>> once the bolts are completely out.
>>
>> James
>>
>> Joe Healy wrote:
>> >I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming
> 0-235.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Healy" <jhealy(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Need Magneto Housing |
I have a Bendix S4LN-204, Part # 10-163045-3 that has a circumferential
crack right where the gasket mates to the accessory case on this Lycoming
0-235.
I wonder if anyone out there has a replacement housing? Alternatively, if
someone could tell me the material of this casing so I can have it welded.
Is it aluminum, magnesium, or what?
Thanks,
(This was apparently caused during shipping when the mag was hit from
behind. The blow pushed the mag into the accessory case, cracking it too.
But the accessory case looks repairable. The reason the accessory case
cracked was that the 2 bolts holding the accessory case to the engine, these
are the only 2 bolts that go in from the prop side, were missing. Therefore,
the mag pivoted about the virtical axis and applied pressure the the inner
portion of the case. The 2 missing bolts left nothing to restrain this
motion.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for cam specs |
A fellow builder here in Jackson Hole has an RV-6 with a 0-320 lyc in it. He bought
the motor already assembled and was told it had the 160 HP pistons {74089}
in it. So far the performance is not what is expected, So I have a couple of
questions for you guys. First since you cannot determine the comp ratio by the
leakdown method has anybody done a compression check using the regular way????
If I could get some readings from both a 150 hp and a 160 hp motor I could
tell what pistons are in it without removing the cylinders.. Second this guy
seems to think whoever built up this motor "might" have got the cam timed wrong,
he thinks it is off by one tooth. I can degree the motor without tearing it
down but I need the cam spec for a 150/160 stock cam.... Anyone out there have
those ???? Thanks in advance.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for cam specs |
I think the variables of trying to definitively determine whether the engine
has 8.5:1 pistons or 7.0:1 preclude using a cranking compression test. But
it would be interesting to see the comparative results. I would think that
a measurement of depth from the spark plug hole to the top of the piston
with it at TDC would be a much more accurate way or determining what pistons
were installed. Place the piston at TDC and screw in the bullet nose plug
used with timing protractors to determine TDC and compare their height.
Actually it may not screw into the threads as they are designed to contact
the piston at something like 45 degrees or so before TDC. But this angle
could be compared between the two engines with the plug fully seated in the
spark plug hole.
There is an easier way (very easy to be exact) of determining correct cam
timing of the Lycoming engine. Set #1 cyl. to TDC on the compression stroke
and take off the #2 rocker cover. Any movement of the crankshaft in EITHER
direction will just start to open either the intake or exhaust valve of #2.
If this doesn't occur then the cam timing is off.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Looking for cam specs
>
>
>
> A fellow builder here in Jackson Hole has an RV-6 with a 0-320 lyc in it.
> He bought the motor already assembled and was told it had the 160 HP
> pistons {74089} in it. So far the performance is not what is expected, So
> I have a couple of questions for you guys. First since you cannot
> determine the comp ratio by the leakdown method has anybody done a
> compression check using the regular way???? If I could get some readings
> from both a 150 hp and a 160 hp motor I could tell what pistons are in it
> without removing the cylinders.. Second this guy seems to think whoever
> built up this motor "might" have got the cam timed wrong, he thinks it is
> off by one tooth. I can degree the motor without tearing it down but I
> need the cam spec for a 150/160 stock cam.... Anyone out there have those
> ???? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TeamGrumman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for cam specs |
Call Ken Tunnell at LyCon and ask him. He might be able to give you some
pointers.
559-651-1070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for cam specs |
The actual compression reading is not necessarily an indicator of
piston ratio.
An aggressive cam profile tends to bleed off some of the pressure
as a trade off for volume, especially at cranking speeds.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: <n801bh(at)netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Looking for cam specs
>
>
>
> A fellow builder here in Jackson Hole has an RV-6 with a 0-320 lyc in it.
> He bought the motor already assembled and was told it had the 160 HP
> pistons {74089} in it. So far the performance is not what is expected, So
> I have a couple of questions for you guys. First since you cannot
> determine the comp ratio by the leakdown method has anybody done a
> compression check using the regular way???? If I could get some readings
> from both a 150 hp and a 160 hp motor I could tell what pistons are in it
> without removing the cylinders.. Second this guy seems to think whoever
> built up this motor "might" have got the cam timed wrong, he thinks it is
> off by one tooth. I can degree the motor without tearing it down but I
> need the cam spec for a 150/160 stock cam.... Anyone out there have those
> ???? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Larkin" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Accessory Case Removal |
Use a rawhide mallet or rubber hammer.
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Healy
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Accessory Case Removal
I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming
0-235.
I took out all the bolts but the gasket is holding it together pretty
good.
Does anyone have any techniques for causing it to separate without
scoring
the mating surfaces?
Joe.
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Larkin" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Accessory Case Removal |
If you can get some small safety wire in between the gasket then wrap to
pieces of wood as handles around it and pull it through the gasket. If
you have a rubber or rawhide hammer hit the case on the flange all the
way around, and hit it with good strong blows...
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Healy
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Accessory Case Removal
I tried that with a leather mallet (a sledge hammer with a head like a
dog
chew bone). I didn't hit it very hard for fear of cracking the housing.
I
figured I should ask the experts before pounding away like a cave man.
I was wondering if there was a secret kung-fu pressure point to aim for.
Or
maybe a Lycoming pry apart tool #2o02587a9sa87.... .
My next attempt would be to try to delaminate the gasket with a single
edge
razor blade. Any suggestions?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ochs" <jochs(at)froody.org>
>
> I don't know the specifics of that engine, but on others I've been
able
> to tap the part gently with a soft mallet and break the gasket loose
> once the bolts are completely out.
>
> James
>
> Joe Healy wrote:
> >I am trying to remove the oil sump and accessory case from a Lycoming
0-235.
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craigw" <rupilot(at)nvbell.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax Motor problems |
I am working on a Steme motor glider with the Rotax 914 f engine, The
problem is that on start up
it with full choke it will just die after warmup when the choke is pulled
off. After it warms up it may
start without the choke but does not develop full power. I only seem to get
about 75 percent in climb
Does anyone have any expert advise on these motors?
Thanks
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
Hi Ben, could you ask Lycon a question for me? On one of my certified
aircraft groups a gentleman posted saying he got his O-360 A1A rebuilt there and
Lycon used "the hottest approved cam" for it. Since you speak engine maybe you
could ask him which one that is? I much appreciate any effort, and understand
if can't do it. Skip Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Motor problems |
I haven't seen too many 914 drivers here so you might try the Europa
list instead:
Quite a few are flying 914's and will likely provide more answers than
you'll know what to do with! Best of luck with it.
D
-----------------------------
On 5/27/05, craigw wrote:
>
> I am working on a Steme motor glider with the Rotax 914 f engine, The
> problem is that on start up
> it with full choke it will just die after warmup when the choke is pulled
> off. After it warms up it may
> start without the choke but does not develop full power. I only seem to get
> about 75 percent in climb
> Does anyone have any expert advise on these motors?
> Thanks
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Great Rotax News |
Fellow Rotax 503/582 Owners,
The following was posted on www.aero-news.net earlier today:
Rotax Engine/Gearbox Trade-In Program
Trade For New Rotax 503, 582 Engines
Coming on the heels of the very
successful 2004 Rotax Trade-in program, All US Rotax Service
Centers are now offering a limited time a new Trade-In Program for
qualified Rotax, Hirth and 2SI Engines with Gearboxes. Qualifying
engines can be Traded for new Rotax 503 or 582 engines equipped
with either "B","C", or "E" gearboxes.
All trade-in engines must be found in the Rotax serial number
database and include a gearbox to qualify. To see if your engine
qualifies have your seven digit serial number available and contact
your nearest Rotax Service Center. Hirth Engines must two cycle
engine from 40 to 65 hp and also must include a gearbox. 2SI
engines must be 35 hp or more and include a gearbox as well.
Trade-in credit can be applied for the purchase of any new Rotax
503 or 582 engine and gearbox combo. Rotax 503 credit is $750.00.
Rotax 582 credit is $810.00. All engines purchased or traded in
must include a gearbox.
This program is effect for a three month period from June 1,
2005 and ending on August 31, 2005 and is available from all Rotax
Service Centers.
FMI: www.800-Airwolf.com
For the WHOLE story, go to http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=ae0a83a7-51f0-4a13-a0a5-85b1e3e8bff5
Ed in JXN
Kolb MkII/503
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery Charger/Maintainer/Desulphators |
luscombe-silvaire(at)yahoogroups.com,
vintage-and-warbirds(at)yahoogroups.com
Greetings to All,
I've been reading the posts pertaining to battery maintenance and am
wondering if any of you on the lists are, or have, used the charger/maintainer
and
desulphator units?
For years I too had problems with battery operation and longevity, then I
came across an article about desulphator's and It all made since. I got on the
web and started researching these units, and desulphation itself, and thought
I'd give it a try. The units from the company that I've included here were
inexpensive so I ordered one.
That was (2) years ago; I've taken batteries that my friends had taken out
of their airplanes, cars, and trucks, as "dead", and ran them through the
charging/desulphation process and have saved, and am now using about 95% of them.
Periodically I'll hook my airplane, etc., up for a trickle charge and so far
they haven't failed me when needed.
I was just wondering If anyone else was or had tried this process. Also for
you that like to build electronic "stuff", there are plans on the net to do
your own.
Bill Byars
1949 T8F
_http://www.vdcelectronics.com/index.htm_
(http://www.vdcelectronics.com/index.htm)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Battery charger/desulphator |
Greetings,
If anyone is thinking about buying a battery charger/desulphator, such as I
mentioned in my post a couple of days ago, here is a VERY good buy at this
web site.
Bill Byars
1949 T8F
_http://www.batteryweb.com/batteryminder.cfm_
(http://www.batteryweb.com/batteryminder.cfm)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Baldwin <jamesbaldwin(at)dc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/desulphator |
Bill -
Which of these charger/desulfators do you use to get the results you
wrote about? Which one is the great deal you're talking about? Are you
a dealer or do you own a piece of the company? Than you. JBB
WRBYARS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Greetings,
>If anyone is thinking about buying a battery charger/desulphator, such as I
>mentioned in my post a couple of days ago, here is a VERY good buy at this
>web site.
>Bill Byars
>1949 T8F
>
>_http://www.batteryweb.com/batteryminder.cfm_
>(http://www.batteryweb.com/batteryminder.cfm)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery charger/desulphator |
Hi JB,
No I'm not a dealer, nor do I own any part of the company, (wish I did
though). I just like to pass on info and things that I think might make life a
little bit easier/better, and less costly.
I have the #12112 for $39.00, that's a deal. I think I paid $59.00 when I
bought mine.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron &Phyliss" <rgdplg(at)radiowire.net> |
| Subject: | Suzuki 1.3L / Ch701 |
N701PR/Suzuki
My Suzuki 1.3L 4cyl. engine was run on June 10 for the first time with a Powerfin
prop on the CH-701. I am using the Raven ReDrive with a radiator by Tech Welding
of Paducah, KY.
The air temp was around 75 and the cowl was off. Indicated water temp. went to
about 210 degrees at which time the thermostat opened and we had a sustained
temp.of around 190 to 200 degrees. Oil pressure was very good, even at idle.
The in-tank fuel pump appears to be working well. An air vent was added to
the auxiliary tank. I have not done a full static run-up at this time, but
intend to in the near future. The engine was run for less than 30 minutes, so
the above information could change with actual flight conditions. At this time,
I am pleased that all appears to work well. Time in the air will tell the
story. Looking at late July for possible completion.
Ron Dallmeyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3L / Ch701 |
How much does that engine weigh?Thanks.
>
>N701PR/Suzuki
>
>My Suzuki 1.3L 4cyl. engine was run on June 10 for the first time with a Powerfin
prop on the CH-701. I am using the Raven ReDrive with a radiator by Tech
Welding of Paducah, KY.
>The air temp was around 75 and the cowl was off. Indicated water temp. went
to about 210 degrees at which time the thermostat opened and we had a sustained
temp.of around 190 to 200 degrees. Oil pressure was very good, even at idle.
The in-tank fuel pump appears to be working well. An air vent was added to
the auxiliary tank. I have not done a full static run-up at this time, but
intend to in the near future. The engine was run for less than 30 minutes,
so the above information could change with actual flight conditions. At this
time, I am pleased that all appears to work well. Time in the air will tell
the story. Looking at late July for possible completion.
>
>Ron Dallmeyer
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | IO360 backfiring |
I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When I
pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing at
idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It started
mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who has the
same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any suggestions on
what
is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
Thanks,
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO360 backfiring |
Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
John Grosse
IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When I
>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing at
>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It started
>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who has the
>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>
>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any suggestions on
what
>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | IO360 backfiring |
Exhaust gaskets.....
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
Subject: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:34:07 EDT
I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When I
pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing at
idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It started
mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who has
the
same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any suggestions
on what
is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
Thanks,
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO360 backfiring |
While the previous responses to the initial question are valid,
and have merit to a degree, perhaps one area may be overlooked.
If you have an aftermarket exhaust system, the so-called backfiring
when the throttle is closed is enhanced. A standard muffler system
masks this reaction.
If running a camshaft with increased overlap, this is phenomenon
is increased.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
> Exhaust gaskets.....
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:34:07 EDT
>
>
> I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
> I
> pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
> at
> idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
> started
> mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
> has
> the
> same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>
> I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
> entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any suggestions
> on what
> is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the ignition
timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though, so
I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard Van's 2
into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively worse.
Could it be
a mixture problem?
Jon
In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
John Grosse
IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>
>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When I
>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
at
>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
started
>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
has the
>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>
>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any suggestions
on
what
>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
Exhaust gaskets.....
Best... Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
My experience has been that it is a to lean idle mixture or an induction
system air leak.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
>
>
> I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the
> ignition
> timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though,
> so
> I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
>
> Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
>
> Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
> friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
> Van's 2
> into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
> normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
> popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively
> worse. Could it be
> a mixture problem?
>
> Jon
>
>
> In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
> Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
>
> John Grosse
> IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
>
> BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>>
>>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
>>I
>>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
> at
>>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
> started
>>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
> has the
>
>>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>>
>>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
>>suggestions
> on
> what
>>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
> Exhaust gaskets.....
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
John Myers explained it very well...
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:11:32 EDT
I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the ignition
timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though,
so
I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
Van's 2
into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively
worse. Could it be
a mixture problem?
Jon
In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
John Grosse
IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>
>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
I
>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
at
>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
started
>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
has the
>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>
>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
suggestions
on
what
>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
Exhaust gaskets.....
Best... Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
A good scavenging system such as a 4 into 1 or the Vetterman can
backfire/pop with the throttle pulled back to idle in flight. I have been
told this is normal by Larry Vetterman. I have an IO and yes it pops on
final when pulled back to idle, its done this from day one. I did lean out
the idle mixture and that helped reduce it a bit. I usually have 6~8 inches
on during final so there is no popping, the slightest amount of power
stopped it, at least in my case. There are also houses/business under final
for me and I make sure no to pop at them.
Now all the reasons that have been given in previous E-mails are all
possible suspects too.
Oh, those of you with new engines, I noticed that I had to re-torque my
exhaust nuts 3 times before they held the torque.
>
>John Myers explained it very well...
>
>
>Best... Steve
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
>Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:11:32 EDT
>
>
>I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the ignition
>timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though,
>so
>I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
>
>Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
>
>Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
>friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
>Van's 2
>into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
>normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
>popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively
>worse. Could it be
>a mixture problem?
>
>Jon
>
>
>In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>________________________________ Message 2
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
>Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
>
>John Grosse
>IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
>
>BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
> >
> >I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
>I
> >pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
>at
> >idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
>started
> >mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
>has the
>
> >same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
> >
> >I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
> >entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
>suggestions
>on
>what
> >is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>________________________________ Message 3
>_____________________________________
>
>
>From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
>Exhaust gaskets.....
>
>
>Best... Steve
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
Mixture will contribute to it, without question, in which an
intake leak could be part of the cause.
When assembling a new engine, I leave the rocker arms off,
and slightly pressurize the induction (6-9 psi) to verify no leaks.
I have found more sump/tube leaks this way, that might not show
up otherwise.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: <BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
>
>
> I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the
> ignition
> timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though,
> so
> I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
>
> Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
>
> Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
> friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
> Van's 2
> into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
> normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
> popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively
> worse. Could it be
> a mixture problem?
>
> Jon
>
>
> In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
> Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
>
> John Grosse
> IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
>
> BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>>
>>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
>>I
>>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
> at
>>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
> started
>>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
> has the
>
>>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>>
>>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
>>suggestions
> on
> what
>>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>
>
> Exhaust gaskets.....
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
What is the best way to seal sump tubes? I am sure tightening the clamp is
not always the answer.
>
>Mixture will contribute to it, without question, in which an
>intake leak could be part of the cause.
>When assembling a new engine, I leave the rocker arms off,
>and slightly pressurize the induction (6-9 psi) to verify no leaks.
>I have found more sump/tube leaks this way, that might not show
>up otherwise.
>Archie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
>
>
> >
> >
> > I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the
> > ignition
> > timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine though,
> > so
> > I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
> >
> > Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
> >
> > Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas my
> > friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
> > Van's 2
> > into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his in
> > normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
> > popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten progressively
> > worse. Could it be
> > a mixture problem?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 2
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
> >
> >
> > Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
> >
> > John Grosse
> > IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
> >
> > BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
> >>
> >>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH. When
> >>I
> >>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while taxiing
> > at
> >>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
> > started
> >>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend who
> > has the
> >
> >>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
> >>
> >>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
> >>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
> >>suggestions
> > on
> > what
> >>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Jon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 3
> > _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
> > Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
> >
> >
> > Exhaust gaskets.....
> >
> >
> > Best... Steve
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 backfiring |
I have seen everything from epoxy, to tape, to RTV, but the proper way is to
expand the tube into a receiver groove machined into the sump.
They will occasionally loosen up.
Most any engine shop will have this tool which usually comes in two basic
sizes.
Without really going to a commercial, I also manufacture them, but they are
expensive.
Archie
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> What is the best way to seal sump tubes? I am sure tightening the clamp is
> not always the answer.
>
>
>>
>>Mixture will contribute to it, without question, in which an
>>intake leak could be part of the cause.
>>When assembling a new engine, I leave the rocker arms off,
>>and slightly pressurize the induction (6-9 psi) to verify no leaks.
>>I have found more sump/tube leaks this way, that might not show
>>up otherwise.
>>Archie
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: Engines-List: Re: IO-360 backfiring
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I am running a standard Slick magneto system. Haven't checked the
>> > ignition
>> > timing yet, but will next time the cowl is off. Engine runs fine
>> > though,
>> > so
>> > I'd be surprised if the timing is off by much.
>> >
>> > Steve, what do you imply with exhaust gaskets? Please expand on this.
>> >
>> > Archie, I am using a 4 into 1 exhaust header with no muffler, whereas
>> > my
>> > friend who has the same problem with his IO-360 is running the standard
>> > Van's 2
>> > into 1 x 2 setup. My exhaust noise level is a little louder than his
>> > in
>> > normal use. However, the exhaust setup doesn't explain why the
>> > popping/backfiring started about 50 hours ago and has gotten
>> > progressively
>> > worse. Could it be
>> > a mixture problem?
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 6/27/2005 2:57:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> > engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>> >
>> > ________________________________ Message 2
>> > _____________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > From: John Grosse <grosseair(at)comcast.net>
>> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Did you check the timing? I What type of ignition system do you have?
>> >
>> > John Grosse
>> > IO-360 B1E in a Piper Arrow
>> >
>> > BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>--> Engines-List message posted by: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
>> >>
>> >>I have an IO-360 180 HP constant speed in my RV-7, 125 hours SMOH.
>> >>When
>> >>I
>> >>pull the throttle while on decent in the pattern, and also while
>> >>taxiing
>> > at
>> >>idle, I'm getting a lot of popping/backfiring from the exhaust. It
>> > started
>> >>mildly about 50 hours ago and is getting much worse. I have friend
>> >>who
>> > has the
>> >
>> >>same engine (200 hours) in his RV-8 and his has been doing the same.
>> >>
>> >>I had one person claim vacuum leaks can cause this, so I went over the
>> >>entire induction system and verified everything is tight. Any
>> >>suggestions
>> > on
>> > what
>> >>is causing this? Other than this, the engine runs great.
>> >>
>> >>Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>Jon
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________ Message 3
>> > _____________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
>> > Subject: RE: Engines-List: IO360 backfiring
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Exhaust gaskets.....
>> >
>> >
>> > Best... Steve
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: IO 360 backfiring |
In a message dated 6/28/2005 7:19:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jmyers(at)flyingmranch.us writes:
Jon, I responded before but just realized that it only went back to Steve.
Sorry I get messed up when I try to respond as a "digest" subscriber. Anyway
here is a copy of my response to your question about backfiring from some
experiences that I have had.
Here is my previous email that apparently only went to Steve.
Jon, what Steve said.
I think you will find that a little too rich of an idle mixture or even a
normal (rich) mixture on a hot engine, along with leaking exhaust gaskets will
cause the popping.
Unburned fuel in exhaust along with oxygen and viola, some popping
combustion occurs as the gasses depart the exhaust valve area.
Does your injection system let you lean out the idle mixture any? It might
be worth trying, but you might also introduce a hesitation on acceleration if
you go too far. If new "blow proof" exhaust gaskets don't fix it I would
try this. If the exhaust is actually leaking you should see some signs around
the flange or vicinity, like exhaust residue on spark plug or the cylinder
near the flange.
Worth what you paid for it.
John
10.03.3304/NT3646.00.7d6075c4) with SMTP id veoqdlba for BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com;
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:19:03 -0500 (Central Standard Time)
type="multipart/alternative";
From: "John Myers" <jmyers(at)flyingmranch.us>
Subject: IO 360 backfiring
--------------Boundary-00=_RRKSMY50000000000000
--------------Boundary-00=_RRKSH890000000000000
Jon, I responded before but just realized that it only went back to Steve.
Sorry I get messed up when I try to respond as a "digest" subscriber.
Anyway here is a copy of my response to your question about backfiring from
some experiences that I have had.
Here is my previous email that apparently only went to Steve.
Jon, what Steve said.
I think you will find that a little too rich of an idle mixture or even a
normal (rich) mixture on a hot engine, along with leaking exhaust gaskets
will cause the popping.
Unburned fuel in exhaust along with oxygen and viola, some popping
combustion occurs as the gasses depart the exhaust valve area.
Does your injection system let you lean out the idle mixture any? It might
be worth trying, but you might also introduce a hesitation on acceleration
if you go too far. If new "blow proof" exhaust gaskets don't fix it I would
try this. If the exhaust is actually leaking you should see some signs
around the flange or vicinity, like exhaust residue on spark plug or the
cylinder near the flange.
Worth what you paid for it.
John
--------------Boundary-00=_RRKSH890000000000000
Jon, I responded before but just realized that it only went back to
Steve. Sorry I get messed up when I=20try to respond as a "digest" subscriber.
Anyway here is a copy of my response to your question about backfiring from
some experiences that I have=20had. Here is my previous email that apparently
only went to Steve. =20 Jon, what Steve said. I think
you will find that a little too rich of an idle mixture or even a normal (rich)
mixture on a hot engine, along with leaking exhaust gaskets will cause the
popping. Unburned fuel in exhaust along with oxygen and viola, somepopping=20combustion
occurs asthe gasses depart the exhaust valve area. =20 Does your
injection system let you lean out the idle mixture any? It might be worth
trying, but you might also introduce a hesitation on acceleration if you go too
far. If new "blow proof" exhaust gaskets don't fix it I would try this. If the
exhaust is actually leaking you should see some signs around the flange or
vicinity, like exhaust residue on spark plug or the cylinder near the flange.
Worthwhat you paid for it. John
--------------Boundary-00=_RRKSH890000000000000--
--------------Boundary-00=_RRKSMY50000000000000
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Io360 backfiring |
This is usually caused by very slow combustion coupled with
misfiring, resulting in unburned fuel being discharged to the exhaust
manifold. There needs to be a source of ignition, which is provided
by the very slow combustion discharging an open flame. Check to see
if the air/fuel ratio at idle isn't too rich - just lean out the
engine under those conditions and see if it goes away. As suggested
below, there is the possibility of a retarded spark.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marion Jonker" <desertflyer(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Subaru EA81 - package FOR SALE |
Subaru EA81 engine - with Ross PSRU (with updated drive hub - and rim weighted
and balanced flywheel)
Air flow performance fuel injection with dual fuel pumps and stainless steel injector
lines
Ignition: 2 magnetic pick ups in Subaru distributor with electronic ignitions
and coil combiner
Dyno'd at 102 HP @ 5200 RPM
Propeller -- Amar/Deluth wood 72" 2 blade
Oil cooler with oil thermostat
Cooling system --- VW Rabbit radiator with by=pass thermostat (BMW)
300 power hours - runs fine - burns NO oil -- NO knocks - Good compression
I am dismantaling plane (Zodiac 601HDS)
located in Hemet California (951) 927-9640 if you have questions.
Bill W Jonker
desertflyer(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | IO-540-K1E5 & Prop For Sale |
My good friend, Terry Cole, RV-6A and RV-10 builder, died of a heart attack at
age 52. I am handling his estate on behalf of his wife, Mickey Cole. Terry has
the following engine and prop which has been completely overhauled that I need
to get sold for the estate:
Lycoming 300 HP Angle Valve For Sale - IO-540-K1E5 - $24,000.00
1996 TTSN, O SMOH by 30+ year IA and shop director for major fixed based operator
Located in Lubbock, Texas. Case overhauled (yellow tagged) with ney nozzles,crank
STD. Crankshaft and Cam have been yellow tagged. Cam lifters, rods and
all steel internal parts sent off for magnafluxed and/or yellow tagged. Cylinders
have new valve guides installed, new rings, and new pistons. Rocker arms
and Pins were sent off, magnafluxed, and reconditioned. New rod bolts and nuts.
Fuel servo (Bendix RS10) overhauled, 1200 series mags overhauled w/ new harness.
Have well over 24K invested in engine and parts (excluding prop). Weight
- 439 lbs with accessories.
Also have a Hartzell CS Prop HC-C2YK-1BF-F8474-D-4, Serial #CH11073, 80" length,
that has had the blades rolled, hub disassembled, serviced and new seals installed
by certified prop shop in Lubbock, Texas, also available for additional
$3,500.00. Picture of custom blades paint job done by prop shop isattached.The
engine came off a Bellenca super Viking and prop is one stc's for that engine.
It is configured for speed. That is my understanding.
If you know of anyone who might be interested please have them contact me.
Best regards,
Russell D. Daves
Attorney At Law
1111 Main Street
Lubbock, Texas 79401
(806) 535-1019 Cell
(806) 763-1111 Office
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Digest Truncation Fixed!! |
Dear Listers,
I finally figured out today what was causing the occasional
truncation of the daily List Digest emails. Seems that every once in
a while a message would contain a single "." (period) on line all by
itself. The mailers would see this and assume that this was the
universal emailer signal for "end of message", and consequently
wouldn't process any of the rest of the Digest message.
I've put in a filter today to remove any of these sequences so we
should be back in business on the Digests.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need help with Apollo GPS |
Greetings to All,
I'm in a bit of a dilemma with my Apollo 360 GPS Moving Map Unit, (round
unit installed in the panel) which was installed with the latest data in 1997.
This unit can be upgraded by using a lap top computer with an "upgrade card"
in the floppy drive, connected to the GPS with a serial cable, according to
the Installation Guide.
Does anyone have a recent "up grade card", and cable to connect up with that
they would sell, loan, rent, whatever?
Here is the info that the "Guide" gives on these items.
PC Interface Kit (564-0052), which includes a program diskette (31/2"),the
data cable (500-0263), and a reference guide.
Data Cable (500-0263), a 25 pin on the GPS end, to a 9 pin dsub COM port on
the PC.
Also does anyone know if the GPS unit, when hooked up to a color lap top,
will display the same info on the lap top that is on the "Mother" unit on the
panel, and although the original unit display is in black & white, would the
lap top display the info in color? If it will, then the "co-pilot"/ passenger
could have a larger, in color, view, to assist the pilot with.
Sorry this is so long, however I know there is a lot of Very Knowledgeable
folks out there on the list, and I very much need your help.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help with Apollo GPS |
Did they have color Lap tops back then? See the following link for a
source of more info. http://www.avionix.com/gps-iimorrow.html
jerb
>
>Greetings to All,
>I'm in a bit of a dilemma with my Apollo 360 GPS Moving Map Unit, (round
>unit installed in the panel) which was installed with the latest data in
>1997.
>This unit can be upgraded by using a lap top computer with an "upgrade card"
>in the floppy drive, connected to the GPS with a serial cable, according to
>the Installation Guide.
>Does anyone have a recent "up grade card", and cable to connect up with that
>they would sell, loan, rent, whatever?
>
>Here is the info that the "Guide" gives on these items.
>
>PC Interface Kit (564-0052), which includes a program diskette (31/2"),the
>data cable (500-0263), and a reference guide.
>
>Data Cable (500-0263), a 25 pin on the GPS end, to a 9 pin dsub COM port on
>the PC.
>
>Also does anyone know if the GPS unit, when hooked up to a color lap top,
>will display the same info on the lap top that is on the "Mother" unit on
>the
>panel, and although the original unit display is in black & white, would the
>lap top display the info in color? If it will, then the "co-pilot"/
>passenger
>could have a larger, in color, view, to assist the pilot with.
>
>Sorry this is so long, however I know there is a lot of Very Knowledgeable
>folks out there on the list, and I very much need your help.
>
>Thanks
>Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
Fuel smoke is black.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Dupree" <97corvette(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: White smoke
> white smoke from the exhaust could mean excess fuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
Kind of like this, no leaks , attachment is good , pressures good , fly it
Run it hard at 75% power full rich for heat expelling and go fast for
additional cooling. The last engine I broke in was a O 540 and it really drank
some
gas but the procedure is effective. The first five hours is the most
important during break in. The full rich part can be curbed back after the first
few hours but always run at least 50 degrees rich of peek during break in
period. Rings need to be exerted equally and that is accomplished buy
operating at high power no wind milling accept on final. Engine is break in
when
oil consumption is stabilized. If oil pressure is to high be sure and lower
it to limits. Lots of engine builders set it higher than lower. Change
mineral oil at 25 flight hours or sooner to flush out debris. White smoke is
oil. The break in information is pretty standard. This is information
only David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
There are so many unknowns with the "break-in" phenomena that it is
difficult to say, but the most common opinion that makes sense to me
says that low-power running is sort of suspended animation. Nothing
happens, so it is like it wasn't run at all. Too much of it, though,
and it will wear just enough to prevent a true break-in. 5 hours is
kind of a long time, so I would wait and see. After 5 hours of hard
running if the oil consumption stays high (a quart every hour or two)
then I'd start to think something wasn't put together right. On one
of my engines I found an intake valve guide that was loose in the
head, for example.
Gary Casey
>
> With 5 hours of very low power operation since overhaul, could the
> cylinders be
> glazed such that the rings will not seat until honed again?
>
> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Smith <ocleju(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki |
Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki
If you are interested in alternative engines for
experimental aircraft you are invited to
join the flyGeo_uncensored group and learn about the
fantastic Geo/Suzuki engines used in
aircraft.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored
Both bolt on gearbox and cog belt redrives and all
other aircraft
conversion parts are available for very reasonable
cost. Turbo
versions are available also. Gearbox type redrives for
around US$1750-
The Geo/Suzuki engine uses about half the fuel that
the two stroke
engines use.
The 1.3 litre four cylinder Suzuki engine beats the
Rotax 912 in
power and weight, again both gearbox and belt type
redrives are
available.
The Geo/Suzuki one litre engine weighs a little more
than a Rotax
582, it produces 62 HP normally aspirated but with a
better, flatter
torque curve.
All those advantages plus flying engines with the
hours up to prove
them and last but not lease, far, far cheaper than a
Rotax two or four stroke engine.
One person on the group has over 1000 hours on one
installation.
FlyGeo_uncensored is a very active and helpful group
that is also a fun group and is not
doubt one of the fastest growing aircraft alternative
engine groups.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored
The FlyGeo_uncensored Management
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | C-172 alternator conversion |
Hello All:
We have a Flying Club sort of affiliated with our EAA Chapter. See
www.eaa163.com click on flying club link. We have a 1958 Cessna 172. Our
members want to upgrade the charging system from the stock generator to an
alternator. A member has purchased and rebuilt a Cessna branded alternator
that we think was originally from a Cessna 150. Our problem is that in the
up-coming annual inspection, our usual "IA" will not sign off the alternator
installation without some documentation that this particular alternator was
used, or STC'd, or field approved on this type of aircraft. A further
complication is that our airplane which came from from factory with a
Continental O-300 engine, now has a C-145 (earlier version of O-300)
installed in it. Our research indicates that the C-145 was never equipped
with an alternator. Does anyone out there have or know of a early Cessna
172 with an alternator installed of this type. We need it to be the same
part number as the alternator we have. The information from our alternator
is:
The nameplate says:
Red Seal
Continental Motor Corp
Part No. 733661
15V 60A
Made in USA by GPD Ford Motor Company
If anyone has STC or field approval paperwork, or a 337 that mentions this
same alternator installed on a early 172, we would be grateful for the help.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Secretary, Chapter 163 Flying Club
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming O-540 Engines |
I understand there is an STC available to convert the 235 HP O-540
Lycoming to 260 HP. Does anyone have experience with this? Where can
the paperwork be found? What is known about the approved redline
operating RPM that goes with this? Any experience with operating
lifetime/reliability after such a conversion? Any measured data on
percentage increase in climb rate before versus after this degree of
power increase in some specific aircraft? Any other helpful decision
data points/opinions?
Thanks,
Jim McCulley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engines |
Greg Iles has done it by 337, for his Cherokee 235. It converts to 8.5
compression and uses a Comanche 260 exhaust.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
>
>
> I understand there is an STC available to convert the 235 HP O-540
> Lycoming to 260 HP. Does anyone have experience with this? Where can
> the paperwork be found?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engines |
I would check to see if there is a Cherokee club online, or check with the
E.A.A........ mikel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/31/05 |
Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about conversion from
235 to 260 HP O-540 Lycomings. I will follow up on the suggestions.
Another question that maybe some of you have experience with: What can
most likely be the causes for an increase in oil pressure(also Lycoming
O-540)from normally about 80 psi to suddenly near 100 with the same oil
temperature and other conditions like same weight/brand of oil, power
settings and RPM, etc? It has been suggested that a main bearing could
have rotated and blocked flow, but I would think the oil pressure relief
valve would still hold the pressure stable by relieving the excess
pressure caused by reduced total oil flow? Any experience or comments
will be very welcome. BTW, the usual check of instrumentation accuracy
has been done. Thanks.
Jim
Engines-List Digest Server wrote:
___________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
> From: "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
> Greg Iles has done it by 337, for his Cherokee 235. It converts to 8.5
> compression and uses a Comanche 260 exhaust.
> JimC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
> Subject: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
>>I understand there is an STC available to convert the 235 HP O-540
>>Lycoming to 260 HP. Does anyone have experience with this? Where can
>>the paperwork be found?
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
> From: MLSRV6(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
> I would check to see if there is a Cherokee club online, or check with the
> E.A.A........ mikel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/31/05 |
Jim
check the relieve valve spring for binding..Could be wise to put a new one
in
gilles st pierre
>From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
>Reply-To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/31/05
>Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:54:29 -0400
>
>
>
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about conversion from
>235 to 260 HP O-540 Lycomings. I will follow up on the suggestions.
>
>Another question that maybe some of you have experience with: What can
>most likely be the causes for an increase in oil pressure(also Lycoming
>O-540)from normally about 80 psi to suddenly near 100 with the same oil
>temperature and other conditions like same weight/brand of oil, power
>settings and RPM, etc? It has been suggested that a main bearing could
>have rotated and blocked flow, but I would think the oil pressure relief
>valve would still hold the pressure stable by relieving the excess
>pressure caused by reduced total oil flow? Any experience or comments
>will be very welcome. BTW, the usual check of instrumentation accuracy
>has been done. Thanks.
>
>Jim
>Engines-List Digest Server wrote:
>___________________________ Message 2
>_____________________________________
>
> > From: "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
>
>
> > Greg Iles has done it by 337, for his Cherokee 235. It converts to 8.5
> > compression and uses a Comanche 260 exhaust.
>
> > JimC
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja(at)starpower.net>
> > Subject: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
>
> >>I understand there is an STC available to convert the 235 HP O-540
> >>Lycoming to 260 HP. Does anyone have experience with this? Where can
> >>the paperwork be found?
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
>_____________________________________
>
>
> > From: MLSRV6(at)aol.com
> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Lycoming O-540 Engines
>
>
> > I would check to see if there is a Cherokee club online, or check with
>the
> > E.A.A........ mikel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 09/01/05 |
> Another question that maybe some of you have experience with: What
> can
> most likely be the causes for an increase in oil pressure(also
> Lycoming
> O-540)from normally about 80 psi to suddenly near 100 with the same
> oil
> temperature and other conditions like same weight/brand of oil, power
> settings and RPM, etc? It has been suggested that a main bearing could
> have rotated and blocked flow, but I would think the oil pressure
> relief
> valve would still hold the pressure stable by relieving the excess
> pressure caused by reduced total oil flow?
Yes, in theory the pressure regulator will hold a fixed pressure, but
in practice the pressure of the system is dependent on oil flow -
restrict the oil flow and the regulator will allow a higher
pressure. It just isn't a sophisticated enough design to be very
accurate. If all the conditions you described really stayed the
same, but the oil pressure suddenly changed, either up or down, I
would be very worried about something in the system that has
changed. It could be something in the regulator itself, or it could
be a doomsday scenario as you suggested. I would start with the
externally-accessible devices first - regulator, filter, cooler,
vernatherm. If none of these have any obvious plugging or other
defect - and an oil analysis shows metal, it is probably time to go
in. But I'm not any kind of expert - that's just what I would do.
I've found that things important, like airplane engines, don't change
characteristics without a cause. As my old boss in the transmission
development shop in GM said as he stood over the smoldering ruins of
my experimental transmission, "I think it's trying to tell us
something..."
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil pressure relief valve? |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> check the relieve valve spring for binding..Could be wise to put a new one
> in
> gilles st pierre
I have a CAM100 (Honda 1.5L conversion) and my oil pressure this year has
crept slightly above the max limit during warmup... (up from 60 to 63
psi...)
If this is a trend, where/how would I find and correct an oil pressure
relief valve? Is there one installed in every engine? OR is it a feature
incorporated into the oil filter??
Thanks in advance
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Oil pressure relief valve? |
Normaly located at the base where the oil filter screws
gilles
>From: Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net>
>Reply-To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Engines-List: Oil pressure relief valve?
>Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:14:11 -0400
>
>
> > check the relieve valve spring for binding..Could be wise to put a new
>one
> > in
> > gilles st pierre
>
>I have a CAM100 (Honda 1.5L conversion) and my oil pressure this year has
>crept slightly above the max limit during warmup... (up from 60 to 63
>psi...)
>
>If this is a trend, where/how would I find and correct an oil pressure
>relief valve? Is there one installed in every engine? OR is it a feature
>incorporated into the oil filter??
>
>Thanks in advance
>--
>Grant Corriveau
>C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
I need new exhaust pipes for my RV-4...Would someone please educate me on the difference
between "straight pipes" and "cross-overs." Fuel consumption obviously
is a big concern now, and noise levels near a small community could develop
into a problem...Specifically, do "straights" enable more power from the engine,
and less fuel consumption?..Seems I read somewhere that "tuned" exhausts
were the way to go...What is the advantage and disadvantage of each?..The engine
is a Lycoming 0-320 E2A, modified to 160 HP..........Thanks..........CHEERS!!!!..........Gene
Smith.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipes. |
The advantage of "straight" pipes is simplicity and cost.
The disadvantage is that hp is not maximized by exhaust.
Tuned exhausts may cost a bit more due to their complexity. (if done
correctly),
and will take advantage of pulses complementing each other, (in many
instances
requiring a crossover), with each tube being equal length taking advantage
of
resonant frequency.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Exhaust pipes.
>
> I need new exhaust pipes for my RV-4...Would someone please educate me on
> the difference between "straight pipes" and "cross-overs." Fuel
> consumption obviously is a big concern now, and noise levels near a small
> community could develop into a problem...Specifically, do "straights"
> enable more power from the engine, and less fuel consumption?..Seems I
> read somewhere that "tuned" exhausts were the way to go...What is the
> advantage and disadvantage of each?..The engine is a Lycoming 0-320 E2A,
> modified to 160 HP..........Thanks..........CHEERS!!!!..........Gene
> Smith.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipes. |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
Gene,
The idea behind tuned exhausts is that the shock wave that travels up and
down your exhaust system will actually help to suck exhaust gasses out of
your cylinders, giving you a few hp, or saving you a few ounces of fuel per
hour.
That's the smallest nut shell that I could find.
The catches?
1) This scavenging effect will only work for ONE rpm, or at least a fairly
narrow rpm band
2) Which rpm band this is depends on a number of factors: Pipe length,
exhaust gas temperature, rough edges and steps in your exhaust pipes
(anything that might bounce off the shock wave)
3) Because of this, tuning is a bit of a black art, with ballpark values
available, but empirical fine-tuning being required
4) It requires all exhaust pipes to be equal length
5) This makes for more complex exhaust systems
6) And heavier
7) And a smoother running engine (ever so slightly) - all cylinders being
able to deliver the same power
Have a look at http://www.jodel.com/index.asp?p=exhaust&engines for an
article on my site. Although the site is on Jodel aircraft, the tuning
applies to all piston aircraft.
Making your aircraft more silent is always a good idea. In the US, you are
still far removed from the everyday situation that we have here in Europe,
but you're heading in this direction too: Airports being closed for weeks on
end because the "noise quotum" has been used up, noisy aircraft not being
allowed to take off during noise sensitive hours, big $$$ landing feed for
all but the most silent aircraft, etc. In the aviation community, we've had
our head up our behinds for far too long. It's never too early to try to be
a good neighbour.
Just my 2 cents,
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:29:59 -0500
Subject: Engines-List: Exhaust pipes.
>
> I need new exhaust pipes for my RV-4...Would someone please educate me
> on the difference between "straight pipes" and "cross-overs." Fuel
> consumption obviously is a big concern now, and noise levels near a
> small community could develop into a problem...Specifically, do
> "straights" enable more power from the engine, and less fuel
> consumption?..Seems I read somewhere that "tuned" exhausts were the way
> to go...What is the advantage and disadvantage of each?..The engine is
> a Lycoming 0-320 E2A, modified to 160
> HP..........Thanks..........CHEERS!!!!..........Gene Smith.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gene,
The idea behind tuned exhausts is that the shock wave that travels up
and down your exhaust system will actually help to suck exhaust gasses out
of your cylinders, giving you a few hp, or saving you a few ounces of fuel
per hour.
That's the smallest nut shell that I could find.
The catches?
1) This scavenging effect will only work for ONE rpm, or at least a
fairly narrow rpm band
2) Which rpm band this is depends on a number of factors: Pipe length,
exhaust gas temperature, rough edges and steps in your exhaust pipes
(anything that might bounce off the shock wave)
3) Because of this, tuning is a bit of a black art, with ballpark
values available, but empirical fine-tuning being required
4) It requires all exhaust pipes to be equal length
5) This makes for more complex exhaust systems
6) And heavier
7) And a smoother running engine (ever so slightly) - all
cylinders being able to deliver the same power
Have a look at
http://www.jodel.com/index.asp?p=exhaustenginesfor an article
on my site. Although the site is on Jodel aircraft, the tuning applies to
all piston aircraft.
Making your aircraft more silent is always a good idea. In the US, you
are still far removed from the everyday situation that we have here in
Europe, but you're heading in this direction too: Airports being closed for
weeks on end because the "noise quotum" has been used up, noisy aircraft not
being allowed to take off during noise sensitive hours, big $$$ landing feed
for all but the most silent aircraft, etc. In the aviation community, we've
had our head up our behinds for far too long. It's never too early to try to
be a good neighbour.
Just my 2 cents,
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gene Smith"
esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
engines-list(at)matronics.com, RV4-list(at)matronics.com
Date:
Subject: Engines-List: Exhaust pipes.
-- Engines-List message posted by: "Gene Smith"
esmith6(at)satx.rr.com
I need new exhaust pipes for my
RV-4...Would someone please educate me
on the difference between
"straight pipes" and "cross-overs." Fuel
consumption obviously
is a big concern now, and noise levels near a
small community could
develop into a problem...Specifically, do
"straights" enable more
power from the engine, and less fuel
consumption?..Seems I read
somewhere that "tuned" exhausts were the way
to go...What is the
advantage and disadvantage of each?..The engine is
a Lycoming 0-320
E2A, modified to 160
HP..........Thanks..........CHEERS!!!!..........Gene Smith.
-
Archive Search Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
Photoshare, and much much more:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipes. |
The advantage of "straight" pipes is simplicity and cost.
The disadvantage is that hp is not maximized by exhaust.
Tuned exhausts may cost a bit more due to their complexity. (if done
correctly),
and will take advantage of pulses complementing each other, (in many
instances
requiring a crossover), with each tube being equal length taking advantage
of
resonant frequency.
Archie
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Archie explained this concept very clearly. I hope there is a few manufacturers
making tuned pipes for experimentals though. Surely they will be priced logically.
A local guy with a Cessna 172 wanted to improve his fuel burn so he priced
a set for his bird. Powerflow, who makes a good set of pipes quoted him 4,900.00
and he bought them. It will take 80 years for a pay back on fuel savings,
If I would have known there was a huge margin for bending up pipes I would
have gone into the business years ago !!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
The advantage of "straight" pipes is simplicity and cost.
The disadvantage is that hp is not maximized by exhaust.
Tuned exhausts may cost a bit more due to their complexity. (if done
correctly),
and will take advantage of pulses complementing each other, (in many
instances
requiring a crossover), with each tube being equal length taking advantage
of
resonant frequency.
Archie
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Archie explained this concept very clearly. I hope there is a few manufacturers
making tuned pipes for experimentals though. Surely they will be priced logically.
A local guy with a Cessna 172 wanted to improve his fuel burn so he priced
a set for his bird. Powerflow, who makes a good set of pipes quoted him 4,900.00
and he bought them. It will take 80 years for a pay back on fuel savings,
If I would have known there was a huge margin for bending up pipes I would have
gone into the business years ago !!!!!!!!!
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipes. |
In a message dated 9/5/2005 8:45:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
n801bh(at)netzero.com writes:
Engines-List message posted by: "n801bh(at)netzero.com"
The advantage of "straight" pipes is simplicity and cost.
The disadvantage is that hp is not maximized by exhaust.
Tuned exhausts may cost a bit more due to their complexity. (if done
correctly),
and will take advantage of pulses complementing each other, (in many
instances
requiring a crossover), with each tube being equal length taking advantage
of
resonant frequency.
Archie
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////
Archie explained this concept very clearly. I hope there is a few
manufacturers making tuned pipes for experimentals though. Surely they will be
priced
logically. A local guy with a Cessna 172 wanted to improve his fuel burn so
he priced a set for his bird. Powerflow, who makes a good set of pipes quoted
him 4,900.00 and he bought them. It will take 80 years for a pay back on
fuel savings, If I would have known there was a huge margin for bending up
pipes I would have gone into the business years ago !!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
I talked to Aircraft Exhaust Technologies (I think that is correct) at OSH.
They had tuned exhaust for RV's except the 'A' models. Think it was about
$1100.00.
Doug Preston
RV7 147 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust pipes. |
Gene:
You can buy a Vetterman crossover exhaust for an RV through Van's.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1125941155-374-657&browse=engines&product=vetterman-exhausts
Prices are under a thousand dollars. Customer satisfaction seems to be high,
from what I've heard.
I've never bought from Vetterman, but I had a long conversation on the phone
with Mr. Vetterman and he sounds like a good person to do business with. He
also seems to know what he's doing.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade Today Tuesday 09/06/05 5pm |
PDT
Dear Listers,
I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today,
Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and
searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for
be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics
System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web
server and won't be available during the upgrade):
http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
Hope that there are a few Volks owners on the net.
Started to replace the screw in CHT sensor on cylinder #2 on my Type 4 Volks
engine and replace it with the spark plus ring sensor on cylinder #3.
Discovered that the spark plugs are set so deep in the heads that a ring
sensor could not be used.
Has anyone else solved this problem?
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "norse" <norse(at)cox.net> |
All,
I need new cylinders for an engine rebuild. Where does one obtain these - what
are the sources?
Thanks,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Solar gas turbine T62 wiring diagram |
| From: | "Brewer, Dempsey B." <BREWERD1(at)rjrt.com> |
Does any body have a Solar gas turbine T62-T32 wiring diagram they would want to
share? Inclusion of a constant speed fuel control
would be nice.
-----------------------------------------
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This e-mail message, including any attachment(s),
contains information that may be confidential, protected by the
attorney-client or other legal privileges, and/or proprietary non-
public information. If you are not an intended recipient of this
message or an authorized assistant to an intended recipient, please
notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from
your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this
message and/or any of its attachments (if any) by unintended recipients
is not authorized and may be unlawful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Rod Bolt Torque? Continental A-65 |
Help... I'm new to this list and in need of help. I need to torque the new rod
bolts on my Continental A-80 (I know I said A-65 in the subject) but the Continental
Maintenance and Overhaul Manual doesn't list the torque values.
I hope to set the crank and join the case today and I would be very appreciative
if someone could provide the info.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
5TA6, San ANtonio Sectional
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rod Bolt Torque? Continental A-65 |
Problem solved. Thanks to John Heath.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Rod Bolt Torque? Continental A-65
>
>
> Help... I'm new to this list and in need of help. I need to torque the
> new rod bolts on my Continental A-80 (I know I said A-65 in the subject)
> but the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual doesn't list the
> torque values.
>
> I hope to set the crank and join the case today and I would be very
> appreciative if someone could provide the info.
>
> Sterling Brooks
> Knot-2-Shabby Airport
> 5TA6, San ANtonio Sectional
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Cardinal for sale |
Please help me pay for the engine in my Lancair by buying my Cardinal
(or maybe you know someone looking for one):
For Sale - 1974 177RG, serial no. 580, N2180Q. 4500 TTAF, 1500
SMOH. King panel with KX-155's, CDI's, DME, Xponder. STEC-30 A/P
with alt hold and control wheel mode selection. JPI engine
analyzer. Good paint, good interior (both original) with leather
seats. $63,900 OBO.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John D. Heath" <altoq(at)cebridge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rod Bolt Torque? Continental A-65 |
All
This is a link to the newest publication (SB96-7C) I know of, right off
the TCM web site. <http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB96-7C.pdf> It says 400-475
IN/LB, using the procedures outlined in the notes.
Read it for yourself.
John D.
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Rod Bolt Torque? Continental A-65
> This is all that is said about assembling the crank and rods. The torque
> limit for the rod bolts as specified in the torque limit table is 400-420
> inch pounds for a 3/8-24 bolt.
>
> Jerry Isler
> Donalsonville, GA
> Cessna C140A with C-85
>
Engines-List message posted by: "James Ball"
>>
>> Fasten securely with castle nuts and cotter pins." There is not torque
>> value to use.
>>
>> J.B.
>> Engine Components Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Help... I'm new to this list and in need of help. I need to torque the
>> new rod bolts on my Continental A-80 (I know I said A-65 in the subject)
>> but the Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual doesn't list the
>> torque values.
>>
>> Sterling Brooks
>> Knot-2-Shabby Airport
>> 5TA6, San ANtonio Sectional
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
There seems to be two schools of thought about safety wire. One says lay one strand
of the wire over the bolt head, the other says warp both strands (twisted)
around the bolt head (obviously in the direction to prevent backing out.)
Which way do you see most builders doing this?
I can't find anything in the Bingelis books (Firewall Forward & Engines) suggesting
which method is best.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks (using my dad's ISP, Georgia Peach)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? |
Howdy Sterling -
In my version of AC 43.13-1B (9/8/98), page 7-23 says "Wire may be
wrapped over the unit rather than around it when using castellated nuts
or on other items when there is a clearance problem."
I haven't seen any castellated bolt heads (!) and can only recall seeing
wire wrapped around rather than over installed bolts. A 'clearance
problem' seems rather subjective... but I can't imagine being able to
tighten a bolt/nut that lives in a space too tight to install a small
length of safety wire. ???
Thanks for your question. I know a couple of A&P's that argue about the
color of the sky on most days... and this question is GUARANTEED to
produce some very entertaining/colorful discussions! :-)
D Wysong
-----------------
Georgia Peach wrote:
>
> There seems to be two schools of thought about safety wire. One says lay one
strand of the wire over the bolt head, the other says warp both strands (twisted)
around the bolt head (obviously in the direction to prevent backing out.)
>
> Which way do you see most builders doing this?
>
> I can't find anything in the Bingelis books (Firewall Forward & Engines) suggesting
which method is best.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sterling Brooks (using my dad's ISP, Georgia Peach)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Tappan <dancfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? Check the "Bible" |
There seems to be two schools of thought about safety wire. One says lay one strand
of the wire over the bolt head, the other says warp both strands (twisted)
around the bolt head (obviously in the direction to prevent backing out.)
Which way do you see most builders doing this?
Hey Guys check Check this link. Its from 43.13 (The Bible for aircraft repair)Anyone
working on aircraft should consider having a copy or at least know where
to find it on line.
http://www.khbo.be/~becuwe/vliegtuigonderhoud/ch7/2z-ch7_7.pdf
The old man TldrgrDan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Georgia Peach" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? Check the "Bible" |
Daniel & D Wsong:
Thanks for the information... This is very helpful.
Sterling Brooks
Knot-2-Shabby Airport
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Tappan" <dancfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Safety wire? Check the "Bible"
>
>
> There seems to be two schools of thought about safety wire. One says lay
> one strand of the wire over the bolt head, the other says warp both
> strands (twisted) around the bolt head (obviously in the direction to
> prevent backing out.)
> Which way do you see most builders doing this?
>
>
> Hey Guys check Check this link. Its from 43.13 (The Bible for aircraft
> repair)Anyone working on aircraft should consider having a copy or at
> least know where to find it on line.
>
>
> http://www.khbo.be/~becuwe/vliegtuigonderhoud/ch7/2z-ch7_7.pdf
>
> The old man
> TldrgrDan
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> There seems to be two schools of thought about safety wire. One says lay one
> strand
> of the wire over the bolt head, the other says warp both strands (twisted)
> around the bolt head (obviously in the direction to prevent backing out.)
Thanks for raising this and to the person who supplied the .pdf on the
topic. For those of us with auto-conversions, here's a couple of other
ideas for safety-wiring that my inspector recommended:
1/ Radiator cap
2/ hose clamps - a strand of safety wire across the slot of the screw to
prevent any backing off from vibes.
3/ On any taps or drains in the water jacket on the engine block
4/ Also, he strongly recommended safety wires on the oil filter and oil pan
drain plug. I have a temp sensor installed in the oil pan plug, so I
accomplished these two by putting hose clamps on them, then safetying these
clamps together so neither should be able to spin out.
5/ He strongly recommended some sort of spring or clamp to prevent the
dipstick from popping out.
6/ Any other particularly critical bolts -- i.e. someone else with a CAM100
had a bolt from the camshaft cover come loose and fall into the PSRU drive
belt -- much noise, adrenalin and 'damaged shorts' in flight and an
expensive drive belt to replace... So I took the hint and drilled these bolt
heads and safetied them too.
fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? |
Thanks for the comments Grant.
I'll take another look but there are hundreds of bolts that have never
come loose on a car engine. Some have loc-tite. The bigger risk with
many is that they will break off when you want to remove them IMO. I've
always wondered where to draw the line on safety wire especially since
in most cases all it really does is prevent a bolt from falling out. If
it is going to loosen, safety wire is unlikely to stop the underlying
problem on a car engine. The inspectors are used to Lyc's that vibrate
hugely compared to our engines and that use gaskets instead of RTV...
I've seen some intallations that had serious design weakness's but were
well safety wired - presumably to cover the inspectors conscience (and
other things)...
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
In what respect do we use auto engines differently than in automotive use, I
wonder? They work a bit harder than US/Canada everyday use, but I can assure
you that the Subaru in my Jodel has an easier life than the engine in my car
(you've got the love the German Autobahns).
Billions of hours annually of automotive hours have taught us that certain
things simply do not happen. Why then modify them for use in aircraft?
> 1/ Radiator cap
Result: You don't open the cap quite as often as you could. Counter
productive, if you ask me
> 2/ hose clamps - a strand of safety wire across the slot of the screw to
> prevent any backing off from vibes.
Nothing against doing this, other than that it really is not necessary. Ever
tried to remove a water hose, even with the hose clamp removed? Usually a
total loss affair, when you end up cutting the hose to get the bloody thing
off.
> 3/ On any taps or drains in the water jacket on the engine block
Paranoia is the right word for this, if you ask me.
> 4/ Also, he strongly recommended safety wires on the oil filter and oil
> pan
> drain plug. I have a temp sensor installed in the oil pan plug, so I
> accomplished these two by putting hose clamps on them, then safetying
> these
> clamps together so neither should be able to spin out.
>
> 5/ He strongly recommended some sort of spring or clamp to prevent the
> dipstick from popping out.
This one is the killer for me. Just yesterday, a friend of mine commented
the same.
My thoughts:
A - why would the dipstick want to pop up? Even if the engine core is
pressurized (in which case you have very different problems) AND the core
ventilation has become clogged somehow, and the core pressure is large
enough to overcome the friction of the dipstick, then still the dipstick
will only pop up a quarter inch or so for the pressure to be released. I see
no other physical forces in play that can magically lift the dipstick.
B - Even if magic was there, then where would that dipstick go, with the
cowling less than two inches above it?
C - What if it did pop up? No oil would be spraying out or anything.
>
> 6/ Any other particularly critical bolts -- i.e. someone else with a
> CAM100
> had a bolt from the camshaft cover come loose and fall into the PSRU drive
> belt -- much noise, adrenalin and 'damaged shorts' in flight and an
> expensive drive belt to replace... So I took the hint and drilled these
> bolt
> heads and safetied them too.
>
Fair enough.
> fwiw
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
Of course, whatever floats your boat is okay, but what's wrong with "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it"?
You are adding weight and complexity, you are making maintenance potentially
more difficult and all that because we still compare automotive engines to
aircraft engines.
Just my 2 cents of course...
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Tappan <dancfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Safety wire?( Kiss principle) |
Hans Teijgeler wrote:
In what respect do we use auto engines differently than in automotive use, I
wonder? They work a bit harder than US/Canada everyday use, but I can assure
you that the Subaru in my Jodel has an easier life than the engine in my car
(you've got the love the German Autobahns).
I am a somewhat senior aviation mechanic and am used to safety wiring everything.
I read Hans's post and hate to admit it but everything you said Hans made perfect
sence. You are correct. Keep it simple!
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Safety wire?( Kiss principle) |
Daniel,
I understand that it is hard to break with an old habit :-)
But cheer up! At least we are actually looking at the engine closely with
this in mind, rather than just assuming that it will be okay (or the
opposite: that it will not, and thus needs to be safety-wired).
Being conscious about something is a good thing.
For one, I see the merits in safety-wiring the oil drain plug and the oil
temp sensor in the oil pan. Oil is too important for the engine for me to
trust friction alone on these items. Plus if the plug falls out, I'll lose
all oil in very short order.
The oil filter? Tough one. They don't fall off on auto engines (on the
contrary - they are usually pigs to remove), but safety wire is cheap
insurance here. On my NSI Subaru, there is not enough room for safety wire,
so I'll leave mine as is without losing sleep over it.
The dip stick? No harm done if it comes loose, so leave it alone.
A complete loss of engine coolant, I can handle. I can reduce the power
setting to best glide speed at level flight and coast to the nearest
airfield. Depending on your cowling, a typical water cooled engine still
loses about 35% of its heat through air cooling. And even when overheating,
the only hurt is in my wallet for an overhaul. No crashing imminent.
Mounting bolts: losing the engine in flight (as in: bolts came lose and
engine dropping down) means certain death. So safety them (with cotter pins)
and double check everything. I'd rather lose my ailerons or elevator than my
engine!
Air filter? Let it come loose. No harm done, other than possible ingestion
of some dust. No need for safety wire.
Perhaps it is not such a bad idea to have a very good look at what the
racing guys do, and why. They typically use the same engines as we do, are
very weight and maintenance conscious, and work their engines at least as
hard as we do. Learn from where the knowledge is.
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Tappan
> Sent: zaterdag 22 oktober 2005 15:30
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Safety wire?( Kiss principle)
>
>
>
> Hans Teijgeler wrote:
>
> In what respect do we use auto engines differently than in automotive use,
> I
> wonder? They work a bit harder than US/Canada everyday use, but I can
> assure
> you that the Subaru in my Jodel has an easier life than the engine in my
> car
> (you've got the love the German Autobahns).
>
>
> I am a somewhat senior aviation mechanic and am used to safety wiring
> everything.
>
> I read Hans's post and hate to admit it but everything you said Hans made
> perfect sence. You are correct. Keep it simple!
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AI Nut <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? |
Because it does come out, and spew oil out. High vibration engines,
like diesels, do this especially when you don't screw down the tightener
like you're supposed to. The Lycs and Continentals vibrate as much or
more than a diesel. Best 1930's technology you can buy today.
David M.
Hans Teijgeler wrote:
>
>In what respect do we use auto engines differently than in automotive use, I
>wonder? They work a bit harder than US/Canada everyday use, but I can assure
>you that the Subaru in my Jodel has an easier life than the engine in my car
>(you've got the love the German Autobahns).
>
>Billions of hours annually of automotive hours have taught us that certain
>things simply do not happen. Why then modify them for use in aircraft?
>
>
>
>>5/ He strongly recommended some sort of spring or clamp to prevent the
>>dipstick from popping out.
>>
>>
>
>This one is the killer for me. Just yesterday, a friend of mine commented
>the same.
>
>My thoughts:
>
>A - why would the dipstick want to pop up? Even if the engine core is
>pressurized (in which case you have very different problems) AND the core
>ventilation has become clogged somehow, and the core pressure is large
>enough to overcome the friction of the dipstick, then still the dipstick
>will only pop up a quarter inch or so for the pressure to be released. I see
>no other physical forces in play that can magically lift the dipstick.
>B - Even if magic was there, then where would that dipstick go, with the
>cowling less than two inches above it?
>C - What if it did pop up? No oil would be spraying out or anything.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mlas(at)cox.net> |
I only have a few things to say on the subject of safety wire, first it
is your airplane and it is your experiment. Therefore you can do it
what ever way you want. You can do like the factory airplanes and
safety wire almost everything, or like a road car nothing at all. But
keep this in mind, some night you may be flying over eastern AZ or NM
and your oil filter or the likes may loosen up and cause and engine
failure. Was the extra headache, the $10, or the pin prick to the
finger worth it? I'll let you decide.
As far as cars and safety wire, in every form of regulated racing safety
wire is required.
Mike Larkin
TS-11 Iskra
A-320
Lancair Legacy
Kitfox 4
25 year pilot
22 year aircraft mechanic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> In what respect do we use auto engines differently than in automotive use, I
> wonder?
I've been appreciating the various comments: In response to the above
question:
1/ I think it's mainly heat and vibration... to illustrate, my engine came
with an automotive grade 2" tube that connected the exhaust heat shroud to
the carb heat air inlet. My inspector recommended changing that for an
(expensive!) aviation grade Scat Tube. But I reasoned that the engine
manufacturer must know what he's doing -- right?
Well, within the first 3 hours, that auto grade tube began to disintegrate
and send small shards of crap into my air filter. I was unhappy to say the
least. I think the engine room in an airplane gets a lot hotter than in a
car. The bottom and most of the frontal area of a car's engine is exposed
to airflow.
Also, the propellor-induced air pulses in the air that does flow through the
airplane cowling and the low frequency vibes caused by the forces on a
propellor swinging round and round (no matter how well balanced) add up to
constant stress and fatigue.
2/ The consequences of minor failures can have dire consequences in an
airplane compared to a car. In an airplane, losing all the coolant when
flying over northern Canada in winter is a life-threatening situation no
matter how good the emergency landing is. And the likelihood of being
within operating range of any airport is minimal. It's for this reason that
when operating over lake and bush country or in the mountains (and I suppose
this applies to desert flying too) IFR (I Follow Roads) is the only way to
go in a single-engine airplane unless you are feeling particularly
adventuresome.
Regards,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? |
AMEN to that brother;I mean in a car if something goes wrong you just
pull over if you can.Add in the third
element ,hight and you have a whole new ball game.Mike is right;do it
right and save yourself a whole pile
of grief!
>
>
>I only have a few things to say on the subject of safety wire, first it
>is your airplane and it is your experiment. Therefore you can do it
>what ever way you want. You can do like the factory airplanes and
>safety wire almost everything, or like a road car nothing at all. But
>keep this in mind, some night you may be flying over eastern AZ or NM
>and your oil filter or the likes may loosen up and cause and engine
>failure. Was the extra headache, the $10, or the pin prick to the
>finger worth it? I'll let you decide.
>
>As far as cars and safety wire, in every form of regulated racing safety
>wire is required.
>
>Mike Larkin
>
>TS-11 Iskra
>A-320
>Lancair Legacy
>Kitfox 4
>25 year pilot
>22 year aircraft mechanic
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety wire? |
Some observations from a non-professional outside observer:
Some aircraft bolts (not all by any means) have some sort of
retention device and others don't. Same is true in the automotive
world. Typically, if the bolt torque is a higher percentage of the
strength of the bolt and the things bolted together are stiff (like
the crankcase halves) then no locking method is required. If the
bolt is short - meaning it has little elasticity, or stretch -
locking methods are usually used. an example here are bolts that
hold throttle cable mounting brackets to the engine block. Also,
when the things bolted together are soft, like the exhaust flanges
with a thick gasket, a locking method is used. Metal (not plastic in
the engine compartment) self-locking nuts can be used if the other
half is a bolt. If it is a stud these cannot be used as the stud
could end up backing out with the nut. With a stud the nut has to be
retained by the flange, usually by an internal star washer. A lock-
nut applied on top of a standard nut works if the required torque for
the original nut is very low, preventing it from being tightened
enough to prevent torque loss. There are a number of locking devices
that work. Loctite is okay, but the metal should be clean, not too
hot (like a cylinder head) and the loctite needs to be renewed with
every removal. Star washers are okay, but they are supposed to be
renewed with every removal (although I admit I've never seen this
done or done it myself). Metal locking nuts can be used with a
bolt. And finally, safety wire. When should safety wire be used?
In my opinion, when the other methods don't work or are inconvenient
and when you're not sure that the retainer will stay put without it.
How do you be sure? You can analyze each bolted joint (time
consuming), rely on the experience of others, or safety everything.
The last is impractical, so some reasonable balance is appropriate.
For instance, why safety an oil filter? I've never heard of one
backing off in a car and I've seen several airplanes where the
service guy forgot to do it and nothing happened. It's usually not
difficult, the alternative could prove catastrophic, so I do it. On
the other hand, I've never seen a hose clamp in a plane safetied.
but if it held coolant in then I'd be tempted. I usually double-
safety throttle cables because of all the vibration. If it's hard to
inspect - like maybe the bolts inside the engine that hold the oil
baffles in place on a Chevy V-8 - I'd be tempted to add safety wire.
And does an engine vibrate more in an aircraft than in a car? The
vibration amplitudes and frequencies are probably different, if not
higher, and that would be reason enough to add safety wire in a few
places at least simply because there is no large body of experience
upon which to draw.
In other words, no absolute solution is good for everything.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gena perevedentsev <genaperevedent(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/22/05 |
With all respect,if there is any chance, I would put
safety wiring.Another reason for it,is that it is
easier to asses the joint for tightness with locking
wire.
Aero engine could be
overheated/overcooled,overrevved,frozen,fouled/overoiled
at low RPM,overprimed etc etc. So, I mean they are
working in much tougher conditions than car engines.
Could anybody explain, why there is no wirelocking on
any oil, fuel, hydraulic line. Is it because of thread
profile or any coating.Thank you.
--- Engines-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Engines-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a
> generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-10-22.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-10-22.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> Engines-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat
> 10/22/05: 9
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:27 AM - Safety wire? (Grant Corriveau)
> 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Safety wire? (Ken)
> 3. 05:45 AM - Re: Safety wire? (Hans
> Teijgeler)
> 4. 06:30 AM - Re: Safety wire?( Kiss principle)
> (Daniel Tappan)
> 5. 06:59 AM - Re: Safety wire?( Kiss principle)
> (Hans Teijgeler)
> 6. 07:15 AM - Re: Safety wire?( Kiss principle)
> (Joe Healy)
> 7. 07:45 AM - Re: Safety wire?( Kiss principle)
> (Hans Teijgeler)
> 8. 09:02 AM - Re: Safety wire? (AI Nut)
> 9. 08:49 PM - Re: Safety wire? (Mike)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Engines-List: Safety wire?
> From: Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net>
>
>
>
> > There seems to be two schools of thought about
> safety wire. One says lay one
> > strand
> > of the wire over the bolt head, the other says
> warp both strands (twisted)
> > around the bolt head (obviously in the direction
> to prevent backing out.)
>
> Thanks for raising this and to the person who
> supplied the .pdf on the
> topic. For those of us with auto-conversions,
> here's a couple of other
> ideas for safety-wiring that my inspector
> recommended:
>
> 1/ Radiator cap
>
> 2/ hose clamps - a strand of safety wire across the
> slot of the screw to
> prevent any backing off from vibes.
>
> 3/ On any taps or drains in the water jacket on the
> engine block
>
> 4/ Also, he strongly recommended safety wires on the
> oil filter and oil pan
> drain plug. I have a temp sensor installed in the
> oil pan plug, so I
> accomplished these two by putting hose clamps on
> them, then safetying these
> clamps together so neither should be able to spin
> out.
>
> 5/ He strongly recommended some sort of spring or
> clamp to prevent the
> dipstick from popping out.
>
> 6/ Any other particularly critical bolts -- i.e.
> someone else with a CAM100
> had a bolt from the camshaft cover come loose and
> fall into the PSRU drive
> belt -- much noise, adrenalin and 'damaged shorts'
> in flight and an
> expensive drive belt to replace... So I took the
> hint and drilled these bolt
> heads and safetied them too.
>
> fwiw
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Safety wire?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the comments Grant.
> I'll take another look but there are hundreds of
> bolts that have never
> come loose on a car engine. Some have loc-tite. The
> bigger risk with
> many is that they will break off when you want to
> remove them IMO. I've
> always wondered where to draw the line on safety
> wire especially since
> in most cases all it really does is prevent a bolt
> from falling out. If
> it is going to loosen, safety wire is unlikely to
> stop the underlying
> problem on a car engine. The inspectors are used to
> Lyc's that vibrate
> hugely compared to our engines and that use gaskets
> instead of RTV...
> I've seen some intallations that had serious design
> weakness's but were
> well safety wired - presumably to cover the
> inspectors conscience (and
> other things)...
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Safety wire?
>
>
>
> In what respect do we use auto engines differently
> than in automotive use, I
> wonder? They work a bit harder than US/Canada
> everyday use, but I can assure
> you that the Subaru in my Jodel has an easier life
> than the engine in my car
> (you've got the love the German Autobahns).
>
> Billions of hours annually of automotive hours have
> taught us that certain
> things simply do not happen. Why then modify them
> for use in aircraft?
>
> > 1/ Radiator cap
>
> Result: You don't open the cap quite as often as you
> could. Counter
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Some observations from a non-professional outside observer:
>
> Some aircraft bolts (not all by any means) have some sort of
> retention device and others don't. Same is true in the automotive
> world.
...
Gary,
Thanks -- that was a very helpful summary of basic principles involved.
That's what I like to discover, so I can make better decisions in the many
cases where there is no specific guidance. This arises often in the
amateur-building process, especially with an auto-conversion engine.
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AOPA call to action on Washington, D.C., ADIZ |
| From: | "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org> |
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/
Take 15 minutes to make you voice heard! -john-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Starter not disengaging |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the Sky
Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started
to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any
insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the Sky
Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started
to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any
insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
Here is a fix and an explanation from a Skytek person:
Lots of folks with experimental aircraft use the solenoid on our starter as
the only starter relay, running the push-button to the S terminal of our
solenoid and removing the jumper we supply. This eliminates the 'after
run'.
The Sky-Tec permanent magnet starters like your 149-24LS act as generators
while they spin down after you release the start switch. During this time,
the flywheel spins the one-way clutch behind the pinion gear. The clutch
prevents the engine from spinning the starter armature while it coasts to a
stop. While the armature is still spinning and coasting down, the power it
generated causes the engagement solenioid to hold in. When the armature
spins down to a slow enough point, the solenoid releases and the pinion
disengages from the ring. The hold-in time depends on the starter RPM and
the friction in the starter, which probably becomes less as the starter gets
used. This time ranges from unobservable to about 8 seconds, in our
experience. This is normal operation and is not a problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
Our club Cessna 177RG Cardinal had its engine replaced
about 1 year ago. We are on our third starter. The
pinion gear locked up in the starter ring after the
starter began to disintegrate. Took out the starter
and the ring gear. Lycoming recommended the light
weight starter so we went for it. Now they admit
problems with the LW starter. We went for the beefier
model. No problems yet. BTW, the second starter
lasted 3.5 hours.
Dave Nellis
--- HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> HCRV6(at)comcast.net
>
> Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going
> too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion
> gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has
> started to hang up for a second or two on each
> engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight
> anyone can provide as to what is causing this and
> what the fix is.
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
> Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going
> too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion
> gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has
> started to hang up for a second or two on each
> engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight anyone
> can provide as to what is causing this and what the
> fix is.
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter not disengaging |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I was wondering, wouldn't a big diode and a similar size resistor across the
starter help things? As soon as the starter thinks it is a generator, the
output current will flow through diode and resistor, adding considerable
load to the starter, making it change its mind about the whole generator
thing a bit more quickly.
Just a thought....
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Starter not disengaging
>
> Our club Cessna 177RG Cardinal had its engine replaced
> about 1 year ago. We are on our third starter. The
> pinion gear locked up in the starter ring after the
> starter began to disintegrate. Took out the starter
> and the ring gear. Lycoming recommended the light
> weight starter so we went for it. Now they admit
> problems with the LW starter. We went for the beefier
> model. No problems yet. BTW, the second starter
> lasted 3.5 hours.
>
> Dave Nellis
>
>
> --- HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> > HCRV6(at)comcast.net
> >
> > Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going
> > too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion
> > gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has
> > started to hang up for a second or two on each
> > engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight
> > anyone can provide as to what is causing this and
> > what the fix is.
> >
> > --
> > Harry Crosby
> > RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
> >
> > Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going
> > too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion
> > gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has
> > started to hang up for a second or two on each
> > engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight anyone
> > can provide as to what is causing this and what the
> > fix is.
> >
> > --
> > Harry Crosby
> > RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Farner <sfarner(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Splitting case of an IO-360-A3B6D |
I am overhauling my IO-360-A3B6D (with A&P help, of course) and am a little
confused over how to split the case. The parts manual clearly shows that
there are four dowels that go all of the way through the case - two forward
of cylinders 1&2, and two that are used to bolt on cylinders 1&2 - and that
there are two studs that go through one side of the case and terminate
inside the other side.
My question is where in the front of the engine is pressure put to separate
the case halves. I have the plates that bolt over the cylinder holes and are
used to crank down on the studs in the rear, but there doesn't seem to be a
place to do this on the front of the engine as it does not seem possible to
use the through-dowels to push on the opposite case half.
Thanks,
Scott Farner
RV-7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Splitting case of an IO-360-A3B6D |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Engines-List Digest Server" <engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Engines-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/26/05
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Engines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-10-26.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-10-26.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Engines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 10/26/05: 1
You need an A&P or engine shop that has a case splitting tool. You will
destroy your parting surfaces if you try to pry it apart, and it won't come
apart. The dowels do hold it together. The case splitter applies pressure on
the crank journal to get enough leverage to overcome the press fit of the
dowels.
I am overhauling my IO-360-A3B6D (with A&P help, of course) and am a little
confused over how to split the case. The parts manual clearly shows that
there are four dowels that go all of the way through the case - two forward
of cylinders 1&2, and two that are used to bolt on cylinders 1&2 - and that
there are two studs that go through one side of the case and terminate
inside the other side.
My question is where in the front of the engine is pressure put to separate
the case halves. I have the plates that bolt over the cylinder holes and are
used to crank down on the studs in the rear, but there doesn't seem to be a
place to do this on the front of the engine as it does not seem possible to
use the through-dowels to push on the opposite case half.
Thanks,
Scott Farner
RV-7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the
following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective
11/01/05.
O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch
O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch
O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch
O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jetpilot" <jetpilot(at)clearwire.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines |
The link provided in the e-mail from Rhonda Bewley doesn't work, FYI.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
>
>
> Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the
> following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective
> 11/01/05.
>
>
> O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch
>
> O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch
>
>
> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>
> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>
> Tulsa, OK 74115
>
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> (918) 835-1754 fax
>
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
Thanks for letting me know. I'll check with my hosting service and find
out what the problem is.
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetpilot
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
The link provided in the e-mail from Rhonda Bewley doesn't work, FYI.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
>
>
> Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the
> following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective
> 11/01/05.
>
>
> O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch
>
> O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch
>
>
> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>
> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>
> Tulsa, OK 74115
>
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> (918) 835-1754 fax
>
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
The site is back up and running, some type of temporary glitch.
Best,
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetpilot
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
The link provided in the e-mail from Rhonda Bewley doesn't work, FYI.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
>
>
> Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the
> following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective
> 11/01/05.
>
>
> O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch
>
> O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch
>
> O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch
>
>
> Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>
> Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>
> 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>
> Tulsa, OK 74115
>
> (918) 835-1089 phone
>
> (918) 835-1754 fax
>
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator for C-85 |
I am looking at installing an alternator on a Continental C-85 in my Cessna
140A. Does anyone have a gear drive alternator they are willing to part
with?
Thanks,
Jerry Isler
Donalsonville, GA
C140A N9641A
RV-4 N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
| From: | "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net> |
Bounce-To: coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net
Dear list members,
Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
it on the net.
Is it a vibration problem?
I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
me,
Coen van Wyk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net wrote:
>
>Dear list members,
>
>Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
>need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
>are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
>than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
>The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
>rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
>not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
>a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
>it on the net.
>
>Is it a vibration problem?
>
>I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
>me,
>
>Coen van Wyk
>
The best source for rotary info (especially single rotor) is the
flyrotary list.
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
Ask for input from Rusty Duffy (mounting a more or less 'stock' cut down 13B on
a Kolb, won't hit your weight target) & Richard Sohn (developing one with aluminum
end housings that will hit your weight target).
Tons of additional resources within that group.
Charlie
flying Lyc RV-4
Building RV-7 (potentially rotary powered)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor |
wankel?
To keep it short, yes the engine is light, but you need a large oil cooler
(30% of the heat rejected through the oil cooler!) and radiator, they are
also very noisy. The exhaust pulses are very harsh and will trash a
standard muffler in a few days. The exhaust pipe coming out of the engine
needs to be .125 thick steel due to the EGT temps around 1600 F which is
normal. So, heavy exhaust, large radiator with coolant, and oil cooler
equals an additional 35 lbs or so, maybe more? Then there is the cooling
issues in a plane there never seems to be enough room. Contact this guy to
hear a success story.
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/
>
>
>Dear list members,
>
>Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
>need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
>are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
>than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
>The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
>rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
>not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
>a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
>it on the net.
>
>Is it a vibration problem?
>
>I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
>me,
>
>Coen van Wyk
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
Coen,
How about a Subaru EA-81? 185lbs dry weight, including starter, redrive,
alternator (my own measurements on a Stratus EA-81). An easy 100 hp with the
right cams and carbs, much more experience around, as well as good parts
availability.
Where are you located? Going by your name, I wouldn't be surprised if you
were Dutch. In that case, by all means, visit Prekas at Lelystad airport
(www.prekas.nl). They've got loads of experience with the EA-81 and are
running a few on a near daily basis.
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net
> Sent: woensdag 16 november 2005 20:41
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
> than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
> rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
> a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
> it on the net.
>
> Is it a vibration problem?
>
> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
> me,
>
> Coen van Wyk
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
I have flow a two rotor wankel since 1998 in my RV-6A. They make an
excellent aircraft engine - but do require a lot of work to configure and
install as their are not currently any FWF conversions for aircraft . The
good news is most of the pieces are available for aircraft conversion.
Here is an excellent source of information on products for the rotary engine
in aircraft and the products are tested by the developer and his rotary
powered RV-4 which has hit over 215MPH. He has over 1600 hours of flying a
rotary.
Tracy Crook's Web page of information and products (great place to
start)
web page: http://www.rotaryaviation.com
email: tcook(at)rotaryaviation.com
You can find a used two rotor engine and rebuild it and have less than
$2000 invested (maybe as little as $1000) doing it yourself. But, you would
also need agear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed for the prop.
Depends on what you use/make - but that can add another $1500-$3000. Any
time you go for the one rotor version ( of which a couple of guys are
working with) you save some weight but probably add to the cost as they all
have to be made. Since they are liquid cooled you will also need radiators
and oil cooler along with a fuel and lubrication system.
Join the fly rotary list and several folks on it are working with the one
rotary - can get better information from those actually doing it. An
informed decision is good for all.
FlyRotary Group (Sign on for e mail list at their web page)
web page: http://www.flyrotary.com/
e mail: flyrotary(at)lancaironline.net
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
> than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
> rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
> a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
> it on the net.
>
> Is it a vibration problem?
>
> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
> me,
>
> Coen van Wyk
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
Good point, Hans
If I were needing an engine of around 100-120 HP the Subaru would be on the
top of my list. Given the current lack of any source for one rotors (at
this time), a Subaru would have to be given top consideration.
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
> Coen,
>
> How about a Subaru EA-81? 185lbs dry weight, including starter, redrive,
> alternator (my own measurements on a Stratus EA-81). An easy 100 hp with
> the
> right cams and carbs, much more experience around, as well as good parts
> availability.
>
> Where are you located? Going by your name, I wouldn't be surprised if you
> were Dutch. In that case, by all means, visit Prekas at Lelystad airport
> (www.prekas.nl). They've got loads of experience with the EA-81 and are
> running a few on a near daily basis.
>
> Hans
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
>> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net
>> Sent: woensdag 16 november 2005 20:41
>> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a
>> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there
>> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less
>> than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>>
>> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single
>> rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we
>> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than
>> a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw
>> it on the net.
>>
>> Is it a vibration problem?
>>
>> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with
>> me,
>>
>> Coen van Wyk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sgettings(at)cfl.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:41 pm
Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running
single rotor wankel?
"coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net"
>
> Dear list members,
>
> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor
Mazda Wankel? I
> have a
> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200
pounds. I know there
> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax
912, but none at
> lessthan $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive
(Atkins has a
> singlerotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems
relatively easy). So
> why are we
> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more
expensive to engineer
> thana two rotor conversion, but what is the catch?
Yaw power bilt
> one, I saw
> it on the net.
>
> Is it a vibration problem?
>
> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share
their experience
> withme,
>
> Coen van Wyk
>
>
Also try:
http://www.rotaryeng.net/
Scott Gettings
Glass Goose / Renesis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
I have a 0-200 for sale for $3500. It was running as I understand when removed
from a Cessna. I have the log books and last 100 hr check all was ok. The compression
was good and no shavings on the magnetic plug. That is all I know about
it.
Thanks
Bob Tichy
----- Original Message -----
From: sgettings(at)cfl.rr.com
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
----- Original Message -----
From: "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:41 pm
Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running
single rotor wankel?
"coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net"
>
> Dear list members,
>
> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor
Mazda Wankel? I
> have a
> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200
pounds. I know there
> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax
912, but none at
> lessthan $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods.
>
> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive
(Atkins has a
> singlerotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems
relatively easy). So
> why are we
> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more
expensive to engineer
> thana two rotor conversion, but what is the catch?
Yaw power bilt
> one, I saw
> it on the net.
>
> Is it a vibration problem?
>
> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share
their experience
> withme,
>
> Coen van Wyk
>
>
Also try:
http://www.rotaryeng.net/
Scott Gettings
Glass Goose / Renesis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
> I was talking to one of the lads at our last RAA meeting and I asked him about
a single rotor wankle and he said it's not a good idea because there is a lot
of vibration with it.He was very criticle of it.
> From: "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
> Date: 2005/11/16 Wed PM 02:41:09 EST
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? |
The one rotor wankel, like just about any revolving assembly, can be
balanced. All it takes is the right amount of balancing mass located in
the correct position relative to the rotating mass. In reality, since the
rotor is already rotating rather than a piston yanking a bent crankshaft
back and forth, a rotor is technically easier to balance than most rotating
assemblies. It is true (like with any unbalanced assembly) that an
unbalanced rotor can certainly have horrid vibrations - but, then so would
any unbalanced rotating assembly. There are always pros and cons to an
approach but I wouldn't consider vibration to be a major factor, certain
other factors would carry more weight in any decision I would make regarding
use of a one rotor.
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
>
>> I was talking to one of the lads at our last RAA meeting and I asked him
>> about a single rotor wankle and he said it's not a good idea because
>> there is a lot of vibration with it.He was very criticle of it.
>> From: "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
>> Date: 2005/11/16 Wed PM 02:41:09 EST
>> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Tillman" <peter(at)tillmans.net> |
remove
Thanks...
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
> I was talking to one of the lads at our last RAA meeting and I asked him
about a single rotor wankle and he said it's not a good idea because there
is a lot of vibration with it.He was very criticle of it.
> From: "coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net" <coenvanwyk(at)lantic.net>
> Date: 2005/11/16 Wed PM 02:41:09 EST
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
Hey all
I'm a new member of the engines list. I have been a long term member of the Kolb
list. I have a redrive VW powered Kolb MKIIIc. The engine is basically a 2180
cc dunebuggy engine with a Valley reduction drive and a three bladed 72" Power
Fin Model F. When I originally flew my Kolb I had a 2180cc Great Plains direct
drive engine on it. The original engine didn't have enough thrust for my plane
to fly it with a passenger. Since switching to a redrive VW I have enjoyed
a much better climb, faster cruise, lower engine temps, lower fuel consumption,
and yes it is now a two passenger airplane. The only down side is a bit more
vibration.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Rick:
> Since switching to a redrive VW I have enjoyed a much better climb, faster
> cruise, lower engine temps, lower fuel consumption, and yes it is now a two
> passenger airplane.
Interesting that you have lower temperatures. One criticism I've heard
expressed about redrive VWs is that they can put out more heat than the
cylinder heads can cool. Are you able to climb at a higher speed, and is that
contributing to the lower temperatures?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
Ted
I do climb at higher speeds but the real reason for my lower temps is that
the engine is running at a lower power level at cruise yet I cruise at a
speed 10 MPH faster. I have some good cooling scoops which keeps things
cool. The CHTs are never above 300 degrees cruise at app 60% power, the
direct drive engine was running 80% power 10MPH slower. These differences
are all at the same 3200 RPMs for both redrive and direct. The engine is
running in a pusher configuration so I do have to watch the temps on the
ground.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered Kolb MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: New Member
>
> Rick:
>
>> Since switching to a redrive VW I have enjoyed a much better climb,
>> faster
>> cruise, lower engine temps, lower fuel consumption, and yes it is now a
>> two
>> passenger airplane.
>
> Interesting that you have lower temperatures. One criticism I've heard
> expressed about redrive VWs is that they can put out more heat than the
> cylinder heads can cool. Are you able to climb at a higher speed, and is
> that
> contributing to the lower temperatures?
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Crossover exhaust |
Question on exhaust:
Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a reason the front two
pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says that
Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I wonder
why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump and
dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders heating up
the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe configuration
(the crossover) and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the
engine? Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out
the cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A fellow
Lancair 360 builder (who also used to work on race boats for a living) built
his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts. Airplane isn't flying
yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it. Another fellow Q200 builder
did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine and says there has been
a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps. I can't believe this hasn't
come up before, anybody know the answer? Is there a good reason the exhaust
has to crossover? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust has to
crossover?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing exhaust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Red Hamilton" <redswing(at)mcn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
It doesn't have to cross over, the reason that it usually does is to make the firing
impulses in each outlet (if two) 360* apart. If you run a tube on each bank,
the impulses are 180/540etc in each outlet, again assuming two outlets.
You can use metallic ceramic coatings and baffles to help contain heat, you could
run a four outlet system or a 4into1 if you would sooner, Each has advantages
and dis.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS
To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:49 PM
Subject: Engines-List: Crossover exhaust
Question on exhaust:
Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a reason the front two
pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says that
Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I wonder
why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump and
dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders heating up
the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe configuration
(the crossover) and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the
engine? Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out
the cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A fellow
Lancair 360 builder (who also used to work on race boats for a living) built
his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts. Airplane isn't flying
yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it. Another fellow Q200 builder
did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine and says there has been
a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps. I can't believe this hasn't
come up before, anybody know the answer? Is there a good reason the exhaust
has to crossover? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust has to
crossover?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing exhaust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <garyk2(at)cox.net> |
what kind of prop? i'm assuming 3-blade on a pusher? what's the reduction
ratio? how many hours on the drive?
thanks,
gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Engines-List: New Member
>
>
> Hey all
>
> I'm a new member of the engines list. I have been a long term member of
> the Kolb list. I have a redrive VW powered Kolb MKIIIc. The engine is
> basically a 2180 cc dunebuggy engine with a Valley reduction drive and a
> three bladed 72" Power Fin Model F. When I originally flew my Kolb I had a
> 2180cc Great Plains direct drive engine on it. The original engine didn't
> have enough thrust for my plane to fly it with a passenger. Since
> switching to a redrive VW I have enjoyed a much better climb, faster
> cruise, lower engine temps, lower fuel consumption, and yes it is now a
> two passenger airplane. The only down side is a bit more vibration.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
Gary
For the prop see below.... The reduction ratio 1.61 to 1 and I have 160
hours on the drive.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered Kolb MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary K" <garyk2(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: New Member
>
> what kind of prop? i'm assuming 3-blade on a pusher? what's the reduction
> ratio? how many hours on the drive?
>
> thanks,
> gary
>
a Valley reduction drive and a
>> three bladed 72" Power Fin Model F. When I originally flew my Kolb I had
>> a
>> 2180cc Great Plains direct drive engine on it. The original engine didn't
>> have enough thrust for my plane to fly it with a passenger. Since
>> switching to a redrive VW I have enjoyed a much better climb, faster
>> cruise, lower engine temps, lower fuel consumption, and yes it is now a
>> two passenger airplane. The only down side is a bit more vibration.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>Question on exhaust:
>
>Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a reason the front two
>pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says that
>Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I wonder
>why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump and
>dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders heating up
>the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe configuration
>(the crossover) and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the
>engine? Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out
>the cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A fellow
>Lancair 360 builder (who also used to work on race boats for a living) built
>his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts. Airplane isn't flying
>yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it. Another fellow Q200 builder
>did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine and says there has been
>a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps. I can't believe this hasn't
>come up before, anybody know the answer? Is there a good reason the exhaust
>has to crossover? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust has to
>crossover?
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>Installing exhaust
>
As Kevin Horton hinted on another list, the crossover exhaust is there
for 'free horsepower'. When you feed exhaust pulses from the same side
of an a/c engine into the same pipe, they each 'fight' the other's
ability to exit its cylinder. It's not urban legend; it's normal tuning
practice on piston engines. The best tuning comes with a 4-into-one
exhaust, but that's pretty hard to implement inside a cowl. It's also
very hard to install pipes in an airplane long enough to properly tune
the pressure pulses at the very low rpm of an a/c engine. The x-over
system is considered the best compromise to keep the pulses from
fighting each other while keeping the system as light & compact as possible.
There's a lot of info out there about the subject; if you read it all
you'll never fly the -6. ;-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
You pretty much hit the nail on the head, Charlie.
I have disseminated, and written articles on exhaust tuning which when
describing the
mathematical pros and cons of various designs, only tend to confuse the
layman.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Crossover exhaust
>
>
> DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Question on exhaust:
>>
>>Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a reason the front
>>two
>>pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says
>>that
>>Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I
>>wonder
>>why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump and
>>dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders heating
>>up
>>the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe configuration
>>(the crossover) and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the
>>engine? Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it
>>out
>>the cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A fellow
>>Lancair 360 builder (who also used to work on race boats for a living)
>>built
>>his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts. Airplane isn't
>>flying
>>yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it. Another fellow Q200
>>builder
>>did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine and says there has
>>been
>>a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps. I can't believe this hasn't
>>come up before, anybody know the answer? Is there a good reason the
>>exhaust
>>has to crossover? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust has to
>>crossover?
>>
>>Dean Psiropoulos
>>RV-6A N197DM
>>Installing exhaust
>>
>
> As Kevin Horton hinted on another list, the crossover exhaust is there
> for 'free horsepower'. When you feed exhaust pulses from the same side
> of an a/c engine into the same pipe, they each 'fight' the other's
> ability to exit its cylinder. It's not urban legend; it's normal tuning
> practice on piston engines. The best tuning comes with a 4-into-one
> exhaust, but that's pretty hard to implement inside a cowl. It's also
> very hard to install pipes in an airplane long enough to properly tune
> the pressure pulses at the very low rpm of an a/c engine. The x-over
> system is considered the best compromise to keep the pulses from
> fighting each other while keeping the system as light & compact as
> possible.
>
> There's a lot of info out there about the subject; if you read it all
> you'll never fly the -6. ;-)
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
> Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a reason the front
> two
> pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling?
They don't have to. You will probably lose about 5% of your available power
if you don't crossover, though.
> Another fellow Q200 builder
> did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine and says there has
> been
> a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps
As you know, the O-200 has a different firing order than a Lycoming, so the
optimum exhaust layout doesn't use a front crossover.
> What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust has to crossover?
It sounds as though you've already made up your mind about the need for the
crossover. If power isn't important to you, there is no problem in omitting
it.
All the best,
JimC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
Another comment on this - as Archie and others have said the idea is
to get even exhaust pulses in each pipe, but at the low rpm's we are
running there isn't much room to get the pipe length that would make
tuning work. There is a tuned system that fits in 172's and that one
has pipes that go back and forth a couple of time - probably no room
for that. Then look at the Subaru engine - they do care about
tuning, high rpm hp and such, but they obviously gave up or thought
it wasn't worth the effort to build a tuned exhaust. the run both
exhaust together in a very small manifold. The result, though is a
"funny" exhaust note reminiscent of an old VW. I doubt if that would
be very noticeable in an aircraft application, so it might be
reasonable to just keep each side separate and go with it, saving
space, weight and lowering cowl temperatures. I think they did it
that way on the J-3.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CardinalNSB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Archie's expertise on tuning |
Archie,
The hot rod magazines are full of articles on "fine tuning" to get a few
percent extra horsepower out of stock engines-checking rocker arm length, making
sure butterfly opens all the way, etc., playing with a few degrees of timing.
Can you direct me to a source that might help my ap fine tune a carbeurated
Lycoming 360?
Thanks, Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Cross-over exhaust |
Testimonial: If you remove the crossovers and go to four pipes (obviously one
for each cylinder) you will notice an increase in power and acceleration ability
and a slight drop in fuel consumption...The downside is you create a little
more noise...This is a Lyc. 0320 160HP in a RV-4...................CHEERS!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
J-3's mostly use small Continentals. Different firing order, so no need for
a crossover.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Re: Crossover exhaust
> , so it might be
> reasonable to just keep each side separate and go with it, saving
> space, weight and lowering cowl temperatures. I think they did it
> that way on the J-3.
>
> Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n223b(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust |
Continentals cylinders are numbered differently from Lycomings. The layout of
all flat four cylinder engines is the same. The front two cylinders are 180 degrees
of crankshaft apart and the rear two cylinders are also 180 degrees apart.
In a four stroke/cycle engine each of these two sets of cylinders must fire
either at the same time or 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation apart. Since
a complete cycle of a four stroke/cycle engine is 720 degrees, two cylinders
firing 360 degrees apart is an even firing order. The two rear cylinders also
fire 360 degrees apart but they are offset 180 degrees from the front two cylinders
resulting in an even firing power pulse occuring each 180 degrees of crankshaft
rotation. The numbering of the cylinders and the sequence of those numbers
designated as "firing order" does not change this essential reality.
Connecting the two front cylinder exhaust pipes puts the exhaust pulses as far
apart as possible thereby minimizing the positive pressure spike inside the exhaust
pipe. If the pipe is the correct length one pressure pulse can actually
create a slight negative pressure wave that can assist in scavenging the next
pressure pulse. These two features of a crossover system can produce a measurable
power increase over an exhaust system that connects the two cylinders on
each side. Is the increase significant? That question is above my pay grade.
Clearly some engineers have coucluded no, because there are certified airplanes
with simple exhaust pipes connecting side cylinders. But that doesn't mean
that those motors wouldn't benefit from a crossover system.
There is a thorough study of this matter on the CAFE foundation web site. Their
study also appeared in Sport Aviation over six years ago, but the data is still
correct and appropriate to this discussion.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> J-3's mostly use small Continentals. Different firing order, so no need for
> a crossover.
> JimC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Casey"
> To:
> Subject: Engines-List: Re: Crossover exhaust
>
>
> > , so it might be
> > reasonable to just keep each side separate and go with it, saving
> > space, weight and lowering cowl temperatures. I think they did it
> > that way on the J-3.
> >
> > Gary Casey
>
>
>
>
>
>
Continentals cylinders are numbered differently from Lycomings. The layout of all
flat four cylinder engines is the same. The front two cylinders are 180 degrees
of crankshaft apart and the rear two cylinders are also 180 degrees apart.
In a four stroke/cycle engine each of these two sets of cylinders must fire
either at the same time or 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation apart. Since a complete
cycle of a four stroke/cycle engine is 720 degrees,two cylinders firing
360 degrees apart is an even firing order. The two rear cylinders also fire
360 degrees apart but they are offset 180 degrees from the front two cylinders
resulting in an even firing power pulse occuring each 180 degrees of crankshaft
rotation. The numbering of the cylinders and the sequence of those numbers
designated as "firing order" does not change this essential reality.
Connecting the two front cylinder exhaust pipes puts the exhaust pulses as far
apart as possible thereby minimizing the positive pressure spike inside the exhaust
pipe. If the pipe is the correct length one pressure pulse can actually
create a slight negative pressure wave that can assist in scavenging the next
pressure pulse. These two features of a crossover system can produce a measurable
power increase over an exhaust system that connects the two cylinders on each
side. Is the increase significant? That question is above my pay grade.Clearly
some engineers have coucluded no, because there are certified airplanes with
simple exhaust pipes connecting side cylinders. But that doesn't mean that
those motors wouldn't benefit from a crossover system.
There is a thoroughstudy of this matter on the CAFE foundation web site. Their
study also appeared in Sport Aviation over six years ago, but the data is still
correct and appropriate to this discussion.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Engines-List message posted by: "jrc"
J-3's mostly use small Continentals. Different firing order, so no need for
a crossover.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <GLCASEY(at)ADELPHIA.NET>
To:
Subject: Engines-List: Re: Crossover exhaust
, so it might be
reasonable to just keep each side separate and go with it, saving
space, weight and lowering cowl temperatures. I think they did it
that way on the J-3.
Gary Casey
_-
= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Archie's expertise on tuning |
Not really, Skip.
The items you mention are automatically covered in a "good" engine build.
Many of the items incorporated to obtain high HP from opposed aircraft
engines
go against FAA and manufacturer's recommendations, and I choose not to get
involved in some of that banter.
Bolt on items that have been approved such as the Aerosance (Continental)
FADEC system, and Powerflow exhaust are FAA accepted items which produce
noticeable power,
better fuel economy, easier starting, etc. An aftermarket oil sump with more
precisely
equalized intake tubes is also a plus.
Picking up a 30+ hp increase is doable, but is cost prohibitive, unless you
just want bragging rights.
One engine I did for testing produced better than 50% more, but the end
product was still primitive
by today's automotive standards.
Catch me at Oshkosh, and I will tell of some of the methods employed.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: <CardinalNSB(at)aol.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Re: Archie's expertise on tuning
>
> Archie,
>
> The hot rod magazines are full of articles on "fine tuning" to get a few
> percent extra horsepower out of stock engines-checking rocker arm length,
> making
> sure butterfly opens all the way, etc., playing with a few degrees of
> timing.
>
> Can you direct me to a source that might help my ap fine tune a
> carbeurated
> Lycoming 360?
> Thanks, Skip
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "HAPPY THANKSGIVING" |
0.0000(at)roxy.matronics.com, 1.0000(at)roxy.matronics.com,
-4.4912(at)roxy.matronics.com
Thanksgiving
'Twas the night of Thanksgiving ~ But I just couldn't sleep,
I tried counting backwards ~ I tried counting sheep ...
The leftovers beckoned ~ The dark meat and white,
But I fought the temptation ~ With all of my might ...
Tossing and turning with anticipation
The thought of a snack became infatuation
So, I raced to the kitchen, flung open the door
And gazed at the fridge, full of goodies galore
Gobbled up turkey and buttered potatoes
Pickles and carrots, beans and tomatoes
I felt myself swelling so plump and so round
'Til all of a sudden, I rose off the ground!
I crashed through the ceiling, Floating into the sky
With a mouthful of pudding, And a handful of pie
But I managed to yell as I soared past the trees
(In the T8F of course)
Happy eating to all! Pass the cranberries, Please!
May your stuffing be tasty, May your turkey be plump
May your potatoes' n Gravy, Have nary a lump
May your yams be delicious, May your pies take the prize
May your thanksgiving dinner stay off your thighs!
May your Thanksgiving Be Blessed!
"The BYARS FAMILY"
1949 Luscombe T8F
N2201B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Thanks for the explanations everyone:
That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I don't
know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he flies
whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand corrected.
But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the crossover
pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me that
some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime I've mounted Larry
Vetterman's exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a known
quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and I
don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. I'm glad Larry is making
these systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication),
especially after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n223b(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Dean,
Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of your baffeling.
Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from your engine.
It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your engine will ever
get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local temps sufficient to
do harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust pipes that are glowing cherry
red. Heat shields are very effective at blocking this radiation from heating
less robust components under the cowl. A thin stainless steel shield between
your crossover pipes and oil sump will keep the heat produced by radiation
from exhaust pipes out of the oil. As I recall, Tony Bingless treats this subject
in his "Firewell Forward" book and shows some examples. Also, you can
get some ideas from other homebuild airplanes. I don't believe I've even seen
one that didn't have heat shields in several locations under the cowl.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanations everyone:
>
> That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I don't
> know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he flies
> whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
> the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand corrected.
> But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the crossover
> pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me that
> some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
> experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime I've mounted Larry
> Vetterman's exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a known
> quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and I
> don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. I'm glad Larry is making
> these systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication),
> especially after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dean,
Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of your baffeling.
Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from your engine.
It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your engine will ever
get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local temps sufficient to do
harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust pipes that are glowing cherry
red. Heat shields are very effective at blocking this radiation from heating
less robust components under the cowl. A thin stainless steel shield between
your crossover pipes and oil sump will keep the heat produced by radiation from
exhaust pipes out of the oil.As I recall, Tony Bingless treats this subject
in his "Firewell Forward" book and shows some examples. Also, you can get some
ideas from other homebuild airplanes. I don't believe I've even seen one that
didn't have heat shields in several locations under the cowl.
Bob
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Engines-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
Thanks for the explanations everyone:
That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I don't
know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he flies
whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand corrected.
But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the crossover
pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me that
some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime I've mounted Larry
&
gt; Vetterman's exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a known
quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and I
don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. I'm glad Larry is making
these systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication),
especially after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Hi All,
Massey Aircraft Services in Shafter, CA. had a HR2 with a close fitting cowl
right next to the exhaust pipes. The paint on the outside of the cowl was
getting blisters from the heat of the exhaust pipes.
By visual inspection, they determined that the cowl paint was not blistered
during the flight, the taxi back to parking, or with the engine idling while
parked.
However, within 10 to 20 seconds after engine shutdown, the paint would
blister.
IMHO, perhaps knowing when a problem occurs can lead to better solutions.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/24/2005 9:52:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
n223b(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: n223b(at)comcast.net
Dean,
Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of your
baffeling. Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from your
engine. It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your engine
will ever get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local temps
sufficient to do harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust pipes that are
glowing cherry red. Heat shields are very effective at blocking this radiation
from heating less robust components under the cowl. A thin stainless steel
shield between your crossover pipes and oil sump will keep the heat produced
by radiation from exhaust pipes out of the oil. As I recall, Tony Bingless
treats this subject in his "Firewell Forward" book and shows some examples.
Also, you can get some ideas from other homebuild airplanes. I don't believe
I've even seen one that didn't have heat shields in several locations under
the cowl.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
On a similar note:
Initially, I had problems with the exhausts being too close to the cowling,
with the cowling sometimes giving off the very distinct smell of burning
fiberglass.
I solved this by purchasing a $3 roll of aluminum tape from the local
hardware store and taped the inside of the cowling that came closest to the
exhaust. The difference is truly amazing! The cowling stays cold, as if the
exhaust is not even there! The parts farthest away from the exhaust, where I
did not tape, were significantly warmer than the parts that were less than
an inch away from a very hot exhaust pipe, but with the tape in place.
Heat shielding definitely works!
FWIW,
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n223b(at)comcast.net
> Sent: donderdag 24 november 2005 18:51
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
> Dean,
>
> Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of
> your baffeling. Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from
> your engine. It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your
> engine will ever get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local
> temps sufficient to do harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust
> pipes that are glowing cherry red. Heat shields are very effective at
> blocking this radiation from heating less robust components under the
> cowl. A thin stainless steel shield between your crossover pipes and oil
> sump will keep the heat produced by radiation from exhaust pipes out of
> the oil. As I recall, Tony Bingless treats this subject in his "Firewell
> Forward" book and shows some examples. Also, you can get some ideas from
> other homebuild airplanes. I don't believe I've even seen one that didn't
> have heat shields in several locations under the cowl.
>
> Bob
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the explanations everyone:
> >
> > That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I
> don't
> > know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he
> flies
> > whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
> > the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand
> corrected.
> > But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the
> crossover
> > pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me
> that
> > some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
> > experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime I've mounted
> Larry
> > Vetterman's exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a
> known
> > quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and I
> > don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. I'm glad Larry is making
> > these systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication),
> > especially after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
> >
> > Dean Psiropoulos
> > RV-6A N197DM
> > Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dean,
>
> Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of
> your baffeling. Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from
> your engine. It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your
> engine will ever get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local
> temps sufficient to do harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust
> pipes that are glowing cherry red. Heat shields are very effective at
> blocking this radiation from heating less robust components under the
> cowl. A thin stainless steel shield between your crossover pipes and oil
> sump will keep the heat produced by radiation from exhaust pipes out of
> the oil.As I recall, Tony Bingless treats this subject in his "Firewell
> Forward" book and shows some examples. Also, you can get some ideas from
> other homebuild airplanes. I don't believe I've even seen one that didn't
> have heat shields in several locations under the cowl.
>
> Bob
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Engines-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanations everyone:
>
> That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I
> don't
> know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he flies
> whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
> the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand
> corrected.
> But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the
> crossover
> pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me
> that
> some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
> experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime I've mounted
> Larry
> &
> gt; Vetterman's exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a
> known
> quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and I
> don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. I'm glad Larry is making
> these systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication),
> especially after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
>
>
> ,
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Sorry Jim, I had not read your email yet before sending out mine.
Massey should really try my trick with that tape. It genuinely works, and
that for $3 and twenty minutes of work.
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LessDragProd(at)aol.com
> Sent: donderdag 24 november 2005 19:50
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Massey Aircraft Services in Shafter, CA. had a HR2 with a close fitting
> cowl
> right next to the exhaust pipes. The paint on the outside of the cowl
> was
> getting blisters from the heat of the exhaust pipes.
>
> By visual inspection, they determined that the cowl paint was not
> blistered
> during the flight, the taxi back to parking, or with the engine idling
> while
> parked.
>
> However, within 10 to 20 seconds after engine shutdown, the paint would
> blister.
>
> IMHO, perhaps knowing when a problem occurs can lead to better solutions.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2005 9:52:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> n223b(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: n223b(at)comcast.net
>
> Dean,
>
> Generally, the air temp under your engine indicates the effectivness of
> your
> baffeling. Higher temps mean that the air is removing the heat from your
> engine. It is highly unlikely that the air that has passed over your
> engine
> will ever get hot enough to do any damage. What does create local temps
> sufficient to do harm is the radiant energy from 1600 F. exhaust pipes
> that are
> glowing cherry red. Heat shields are very effective at blocking this
> radiation
> from heating less robust components under the cowl. A thin stainless
> steel
> shield between your crossover pipes and oil sump will keep the heat
> produced
> by radiation from exhaust pipes out of the oil. As I recall, Tony
> Bingless
> treats this subject in his "Firewell Forward" book and shows some
> examples.
> Also, you can get some ideas from other homebuild airplanes. I don't
> believe
> I've even seen one that didn't have heat shields in several locations
> under
> the cowl.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Hi Hans,
Massey Aircraft did try the aluminum tape. Unfortunately, they only had
about 1/8" of clearance between the exhaust pipe and the front of the cowl. It
didn't help enough.
Sometimes you just have to create your own room, to get the 1" of clearance
so the aluminum tape will work. :-)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/24/2005 2:06:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
hans(at)jodel.com writes:
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler"
Sorry Jim, I had not read your email yet before sending out mine.
Massey should really try my trick with that tape. It genuinely works, and
that for $3 and twenty minutes of work.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
We use a thermal barrier tape wrap on all NASCAR,
and some other racing exhausts for several reasons.
The tape keeps the driver heat down by reducing radiation.
Keeps heat within pipes, which produces a minor increase in hp.
Protects other parts from excessive heat.
We buy in bulk, but small quantities are available from speed shops.
The only drawback is if used with mild steel tubing in humid areas,
can trap moisture and lead to premature corrosion.
Archie
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: <LessDragProd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
> Hi Hans,
>
> Massey Aircraft did try the aluminum tape. Unfortunately, they only had
> about 1/8" of clearance between the exhaust pipe and the front of the
> cowl. It
> didn't help enough.
>
> Sometimes you just have to create your own room, to get the 1" of
> clearance
> so the aluminum tape will work. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2005 2:06:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> hans(at)jodel.com writes:
>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler"
>
> Sorry Jim, I had not read your email yet before sending out mine.
>
> Massey should really try my trick with that tape. It genuinely works, and
> that for $3 and twenty minutes of work.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
In a message dated 11/24/2005 4:05:26 PM Central Standard Time,
hans(at)jodel.com writes:
I solved this by purchasing a $3 roll of aluminum tape from the local
hardware store and taped the inside of the cowling that came closest to the
exhaust. The difference is truly amazing!
>>>
Same experience here, Hans- chuck the fancy "heat shields"- the aluminum tape
from Lowes Depot works just fine...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW 250 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Are you guys just applying the tape to the inside of the cowl? Doesn't the
tape adheasive give up after a few heat cycles and curl up?
Thanks,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2005 4:05:26 PM Central Standard Time,
> hans(at)jodel.com writes:
> I solved this by purchasing a $3 roll of aluminum tape from the local
> hardware store and taped the inside of the cowling that came closest to
> the
> exhaust. The difference is truly amazing!
>>>>
>
> Same experience here, Hans- chuck the fancy "heat shields"- the aluminum
> tape
> from Lowes Depot works just fine...
>
> From the PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips -6A N51PW 250 hrs.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl, then they don't
have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the cowl has quite a bit
of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive unable to stick very well...(it
is almost impossible to clean it enough)...Maybe it would last for one
flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
I taped mine on a clean cowl (newly made). It has lasted very well.
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> Sent: vrijdag 25 november 2005 18:35
> To: engines-list
> Subject: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
>
> You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl, then they
> don't have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the cowl has
> quite a bit of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive unable
> to stick very well...(it is almost impossible to clean it enough)...Maybe
> it would last for one flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary K" <garyk2(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
i used a scrap piece of aluminum held on with red (high temp) rtv as a heat
shield on my fiberglass cowling.
gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
> Are you guys just applying the tape to the inside of the cowl? Doesn't
> the
> tape adheasive give up after a few heat cycles and curl up?
> Thanks,
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/24/2005 4:05:26 PM Central Standard Time,
>> hans(at)jodel.com writes:
>> I solved this by purchasing a $3 roll of aluminum tape from the local
>> hardware store and taped the inside of the cowling that came closest to
>> the
>> exhaust. The difference is truly amazing!
>>>>>
>>
>> Same experience here, Hans- chuck the fancy "heat shields"- the aluminum
>> tape
>> from Lowes Depot works just fine...
>>
>> From the PossumWorks in TN
>> Mark Phillips -6A N51PW 250 hrs.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
In a message dated 11/25/2005 10:20:14 AM Central Standard Time,
jrstone(at)insightbb.com writes:
Are you guys just applying the tape to the inside of the cowl? Doesn't the
tape adheasive give up after a few heat cycles and curl up?
>>
Nope- been hangin' like white on rice for at least 50-75 hours, summer,
winter, whatever. It's checked when the cowl comes off (easy & cheep to replace!)
but so far haven't had to do it...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum tape |
Hans..........Lets go back to basics, maybe we are way off base here if we
have a drastic different type of aircraft...I have a Van's RV-4, with a Lyc.
0320 160 Hp...Please identify your type of aircraft and the engine you
have......Thanks.......CHEERS!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
> I taped mine on a clean cowl (newly made). It has lasted very well.
>
> Hans
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > Sent: vrijdag 25 november 2005 18:35
> > To: engines-list
> > Subject: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> >
> >
> > You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl, then they
> > don't have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the cowl has
> > quite a bit of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive
unable
> > to stick very well...(it is almost impossible to clean it
enough)...Maybe
> > it would last for one flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
A Jodel DR1050 (see www.jodel.com - it's the aircraft on the home page),
with a Subaru engine.
The principles are the same though.
There are three forms of heat transfer:
* By contact
* By conduction
* By radiation
If you make sure the exhaust does not touch the part that you are trying to
protect, then this form of heat transfer does not occur
There is so much air circulating through the cowling that during flight heat
transfer through conduction is not really an issue. It is just on the ground
that this mechanism starts to work (the infamous "heat soaking" effect).
Just make sure that your hot air can leave the cowling when not in flight.
Which leaves radiation. The best you can do is provide a mirror-like
surface, as heat waves will bounce off it just as well as light does (after
all, it is the same mechanism, just infrared light).
In short: anything shiny will work.
Hans
P.S. To put point #2 into perspective, I have measured the temps inside my
cowling, at the top of the cowling. During flight, temps were a mere 4 to 6F
over ambient. Upon shutting down the engine, temps started to rise to about
50F over ambient.
This for a water cooled Subaru engine, radiators in the wings of my aircraft
and no baffles at the top of the engine. Measurement taken at the top of the
firewall.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> Sent: zaterdag 26 november 2005 4:31
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
>
> Hans..........Lets go back to basics, maybe we are way off base here if we
> have a drastic different type of aircraft...I have a Van's RV-4, with a
> Lyc.
> 0320 160 Hp...Please identify your type of aircraft and the engine you
> have......Thanks.......CHEERS!!!!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
>
> >
> > I taped mine on a clean cowl (newly made). It has lasted very well.
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > > Sent: vrijdag 25 november 2005 18:35
> > > To: engines-list
> > > Subject: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> > >
> > >
> > > You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl, then
> they
> > > don't have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the cowl
> has
> > > quite a bit of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive
> unable
> > > to stick very well...(it is almost impossible to clean it
> enough)...Maybe
> > > it would last for one flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Smith" <esmith6(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum tape |
Hans.............Apparently you are very knowledgeable about these exhaust
systems, and obviously other aspects of complicated engineering
subjects...(I read everything on your "home" page, and the links, and
noticed you supplied a lot of the formulas for the exhaust problems)...What
is your opinion/experience/knowledge of "straight pipes," especially on a
air-cooled engine like the Lycoming 0320?..(a separate pipe for each
cylinder)...I know they present a little more noise, but here in Texas, it
isn't much of a problem yet...I also know Europe is strangled by those
stringent regulations..................Thanks for your inputs to this
list...................CHEERS!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
> A Jodel DR1050 (see www.jodel.com - it's the aircraft on the home page),
> with a Subaru engine.
>
> The principles are the same though.
>
> There are three forms of heat transfer:
>
> * By contact
> * By conduction
> * By radiation
>
> If you make sure the exhaust does not touch the part that you are trying
to
> protect, then this form of heat transfer does not occur
>
> There is so much air circulating through the cowling that during flight
heat
> transfer through conduction is not really an issue. It is just on the
ground
> that this mechanism starts to work (the infamous "heat soaking" effect).
> Just make sure that your hot air can leave the cowling when not in flight.
>
> Which leaves radiation. The best you can do is provide a mirror-like
> surface, as heat waves will bounce off it just as well as light does
(after
> all, it is the same mechanism, just infrared light).
>
> In short: anything shiny will work.
>
> Hans
>
> P.S. To put point #2 into perspective, I have measured the temps inside my
> cowling, at the top of the cowling. During flight, temps were a mere 4 to
6F
> over ambient. Upon shutting down the engine, temps started to rise to
about
> 50F over ambient.
>
> This for a water cooled Subaru engine, radiators in the wings of my
aircraft
> and no baffles at the top of the engine. Measurement taken at the top of
the
> firewall.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > Sent: zaterdag 26 november 2005 4:31
> > To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> >
> >
> > Hans..........Lets go back to basics, maybe we are way off base here if
we
> > have a drastic different type of aircraft...I have a Van's RV-4, with a
> > Lyc.
> > 0320 160 Hp...Please identify your type of aircraft and the engine you
> > have......Thanks.......CHEERS!!!!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I taped mine on a clean cowl (newly made). It has lasted very well.
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > > > Sent: vrijdag 25 november 2005 18:35
> > > > To: engines-list
> > > > Subject: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl, then
> > they
> > > > don't have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the cowl
> > has
> > > > quite a bit of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive
> > unable
> > > > to stick very well...(it is almost impossible to clean it
> > enough)...Maybe
> > > > it would last for one flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
| Subject: | Used O-470 Part Source |
Listers,
A friend has an airboat with an inop Cont O-470 installed. My thought is
rebuild shops might have parts unsuitable for aviation use that we can use
to repair this engine.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
The big argument against insulating exh pipes is that the temp of the
pipes rises which leads to more expansion (lengthening of the pipe)
which makes it more prone to cracks.
In theory a wrapped exhaust is harder to see cracks which in theory at
leats makes it more likely to give carbom monoxide issues.
Having said that there are a number of wrapped exhausts around and I
don't have any data to tell how much longer an unwrapped pipe lasts
compared to a wrapped pipe.
For me a better way to get power would be to insulate the intake tubes
(on a Lycoming) as these are washed with hot cooling air from the
cylinders and heads...If the exh comes close to the colw I might wrap it
locally at that point.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Archie
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
We use a thermal barrier tape wrap on all NASCAR, and some other racing
exhausts for several reasons.
The tape keeps the driver heat down by reducing radiation.
Keeps heat within pipes, which produces a minor increase in hp.
Protects other parts from excessive heat.
We buy in bulk, but small quantities are available from speed shops.
The only drawback is if used with mild steel tubing in humid areas, can
trap moisture and lead to premature corrosion.
Archie
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: <LessDragProd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
> Hi Hans,
>
> Massey Aircraft did try the aluminum tape. Unfortunately, they only
had
> about 1/8" of clearance between the exhaust pipe and the front of the
> cowl. It
> didn't help enough.
>
> Sometimes you just have to create your own room, to get the 1" of
> clearance
> so the aluminum tape will work. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2005 2:06:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> hans(at)jodel.com writes:
>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler"
>
> Sorry Jim, I had not read your email yet before sending out mine.
>
> Massey should really try my trick with that tape. It genuinely works,
and
> that for $3 and twenty minutes of work.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Crossover exhaust. |
Almost all endurance cars use an exhaust wrap for insulation and horsepower.
Most also use a stainless exhaust, or in some cases, inconel, so moisture
buildup
is not a factor regarding metallic oxidation.
I have always advocated "dump the sump" in a simple way of obtaining
additional power.
Have proven this some years ago when running induction outside the sump on
the dyno.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
> The big argument against insulating exh pipes is that the temp of the
> pipes rises which leads to more expansion (lengthening of the pipe)
> which makes it more prone to cracks.
>
> In theory a wrapped exhaust is harder to see cracks which in theory at
> leats makes it more likely to give carbom monoxide issues.
>
> Having said that there are a number of wrapped exhausts around and I
> don't have any data to tell how much longer an unwrapped pipe lasts
> compared to a wrapped pipe.
>
> For me a better way to get power would be to insulate the intake tubes
> (on a Lycoming) as these are washed with hot cooling air from the
> cylinders and heads...If the exh comes close to the colw I might wrap it
> locally at that point.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Archie
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
> We use a thermal barrier tape wrap on all NASCAR, and some other racing
> exhausts for several reasons.
> The tape keeps the driver heat down by reducing radiation.
> Keeps heat within pipes, which produces a minor increase in hp.
> Protects other parts from excessive heat.
> We buy in bulk, but small quantities are available from speed shops.
> The only drawback is if used with mild steel tubing in humid areas, can
> trap moisture and lead to premature corrosion.
> Archie
> ==========================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <LessDragProd(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re:Crossover exhaust.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> Massey Aircraft did try the aluminum tape. Unfortunately, they only
> had
>> about 1/8" of clearance between the exhaust pipe and the front of the
>> cowl. It
>> didn't help enough.
>>
>> Sometimes you just have to create your own room, to get the 1" of
>> clearance
>> so the aluminum tape will work. :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jim Ayers
>>
>> In a message dated 11/24/2005 2:06:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> hans(at)jodel.com writes:
>>
>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler"
>
>>
>> Sorry Jim, I had not read your email yet before sending out mine.
>>
>> Massey should really try my trick with that tape. It genuinely works,
> and
>> that for $3 and twenty minutes of work.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com> |
Hi Gene,
There are many people who are much more knowledgeable than I am! I am merely
gathering information where I can get it, and have been doing so for my auto
engine conversion for the past 9 years or so.
Anyway, I have never really looked at straight stacks, to bo honest, as
these are indeed an absolute no-go in my noise sensitive area. There are
definate advantages and disadvantages to straight stacks:
Pro: They are simple to fabricate, have little or no issues with expanding
under heat, so no need for slip joints or ball joints. They are dead simple
to all keep at the same length, avoiding uneven running of the engine due to
a different state of tune (provided you work on the intake side as well that
is).
Con: They are noisy (and you have to sit in this noise yourself too!). You
will not be able to tune the length for maximum performance (not that a lot
of people do this anyway), and it is sometimes a bit hard to get a muff for
carb heat and cabin heat around them.
Bottom line: they provide a simple solution to the problem of getting the
exhaust gasses away. It is not the most elegant one, nor is it the most
efficient. But it works. As proven by countless aircraft that are flying
around like that.
Have fun!
Hans
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> Sent: zondag 27 november 2005 16:56
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
>
> Hans.............Apparently you are very knowledgeable about these exhaust
> systems, and obviously other aspects of complicated engineering
> subjects...(I read everything on your "home" page, and the links, and
> noticed you supplied a lot of the formulas for the exhaust
> problems)...What
> is your opinion/experience/knowledge of "straight pipes," especially on a
> air-cooled engine like the Lycoming 0320?..(a separate pipe for each
> cylinder)...I know they present a little more noise, but here in Texas, it
> isn't much of a problem yet...I also know Europe is strangled by those
> stringent regulations..................Thanks for your inputs to this
> list...................CHEERS!!!!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
>
>
> >
> > A Jodel DR1050 (see www.jodel.com - it's the aircraft on the home page),
> > with a Subaru engine.
> >
> > The principles are the same though.
> >
> > There are three forms of heat transfer:
> >
> > * By contact
> > * By conduction
> > * By radiation
> >
> > If you make sure the exhaust does not touch the part that you are trying
> to
> > protect, then this form of heat transfer does not occur
> >
> > There is so much air circulating through the cowling that during flight
> heat
> > transfer through conduction is not really an issue. It is just on the
> ground
> > that this mechanism starts to work (the infamous "heat soaking" effect).
> > Just make sure that your hot air can leave the cowling when not in
> flight.
> >
> > Which leaves radiation. The best you can do is provide a mirror-like
> > surface, as heat waves will bounce off it just as well as light does
> (after
> > all, it is the same mechanism, just infrared light).
> >
> > In short: anything shiny will work.
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > P.S. To put point #2 into perspective, I have measured the temps inside
> my
> > cowling, at the top of the cowling. During flight, temps were a mere 4
> to
> 6F
> > over ambient. Upon shutting down the engine, temps started to rise to
> about
> > 50F over ambient.
> >
> > This for a water cooled Subaru engine, radiators in the wings of my
> aircraft
> > and no baffles at the top of the engine. Measurement taken at the top of
> the
> > firewall.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > > Sent: zaterdag 26 november 2005 4:31
> > > To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> > >
> > >
> > > Hans..........Lets go back to basics, maybe we are way off base here
> if
> we
> > > have a drastic different type of aircraft...I have a Van's RV-4, with
> a
> > > Lyc.
> > > 0320 160 Hp...Please identify your type of aircraft and the engine you
> > > have......Thanks.......CHEERS!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hans Teijgeler" <hans(at)jodel.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > I taped mine on a clean cowl (newly made). It has lasted very well.
> > > >
> > > > Hans
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-engines-list-
> > > > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Smith
> > > > > Sent: vrijdag 25 november 2005 18:35
> > > > > To: engines-list
> > > > > Subject: Engines-List: Aluminum tape
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > You are correct Jim Stone...........If that tape doesn't curl,
> then
> > > they
> > > > > don't have a heat problem in that area...Also the inside of the
> cowl
> > > has
> > > > > quite a bit of residual oil and etc. which makes the tape adhesive
> > > unable
> > > > > to stick very well...(it is almost impossible to clean it
> > > enough)...Maybe
> > > > > it would last for one flight????......................CHEERS!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
A couple more things about stacks.
I have a Type 4 with two stacks, one on the left side and one on the right.
Towed the fuselage down to the local Rapid Muffler franchise and they bent
and welded up the stacks for $85.00 total. They had a lot of fun doing it
and took a lot of pictures of an airplane in their shop.
Wicks has a set of exhaust tips which really tone down the noise without the
back pressure of a muffler.
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight stacks |
Has anyone any experience you'd be willing to share with E-mags or P-mags?
I'm starting to have an engine built up and would like some advice on
these. See http://www.emagair.com/Intro.htm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Wysong <hdwysong(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight stacks |
Lee -
The guys on the Aeroelectric list (via matronics) have tossed this one
back and forth over the past few months. Worth a look if you want more
info (and opinions) to help you make your decision.
D
-----
Lee Logan wrote:
>
> Has anyone any experience you'd be willing to share with E-mags or P-mags?
> I'm starting to have an engine built up and would like some advice on
> these. See http://www.emagair.com/Intro.htm.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight stacks |
Thanks for the heads up. I'm on it!
On 12/1/05, D Wysong wrote:
>
>
> Lee -
>
> The guys on the Aeroelectric list (via matronics) have tossed this one
> back and forth over the past few months. Worth a look if you want more
> info (and opinions) to help you make your decision.
>
> D
>
> -----
> Lee Logan wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone any experience you'd be willing to share with E-mags or
> P-mags?
> > I'm starting to have an engine built up and would like some advice on
> > these. See http://www.emagair.com/Intro.htm.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com |
on the list
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deux premiers mois GRATUITS*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05 |
| From: | "gary.stiffler(at)kroger.com 12/19/2005 09":54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com, |
Serialize complete at 12/19/2005 09:54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com
I am making the hoses to route to my oil cooler which is mounted
vertically. I have an O-320 Lycoming and am wondering if there is a
preferred way to run the oil to the cooler. Do I need to feed the cooler
from the bottom or the top or does it not make any difference?
Thanks:
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Subject: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Engines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
8.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
8.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Engines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 12/18/05: 0
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05 |
If you feed it from the top, you won't get any air bubbles or voids in the
cooler...
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: "gary.stiffler(at)kroger.com 12/19/2005 09":54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com,
Serialize complete at 12/19/2005 09:54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com
Subject: Engines-List: RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:51:48 -0500
09:54:41, Serialize complete at 12/19/2005 09:54:41
I am making the hoses to route to my oil cooler which is mounted
vertically. I have an O-320 Lycoming and am wondering if there is a
preferred way to run the oil to the cooler. Do I need to feed the cooler
from the bottom or the top or does it not make any difference?
Thanks:
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Subject: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Engines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
8.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
8.txt
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
Engines-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 12/18/05: 0
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag. I was
rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not installed) and
noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating clockwise (60degrees
btdc) and at a slightly different place when rotating counterclockwise(40 degrees
btdc).
At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in cylinder).
I removed the mag but no improvement.
Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to correct
it?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Jeffko" <riovista(at)bossig.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05 |
Feliz Navidad, Steve!
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
>
> If you feed it from the top, you won't get any air bubbles or voids in the
> cooler...
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "gary.stiffler(at)kroger.com 12/19/2005 09":54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com,
> Serialize complete at 12/19/2005 09:54:41(at)roxy.matronics.com
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: RE: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:51:48 -0500
>
> 09:54:41, Serialize complete at 12/19/2005 09:54:41
>
> I am making the hoses to route to my oil cooler which is mounted
> vertically. I have an O-320 Lycoming and am wondering if there is a
> preferred way to run the oil to the cooler. Do I need to feed the cooler
> from the bottom or the top or does it not make any difference?
>
> Thanks:
>
> Gary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> To: engines-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/18/05
>
> *
>
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>
> Today's complete Engines-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
> 8.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2005-12-1
> 8.txt
>
>
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>
>
> Engines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 12/18/05: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
| From: | <philipac(at)suncraftgroup.com> |
Jim, If the FO is long (like for example a set of feeler gauges...), the piston
will hang long before TDC. Pull the top plugs and check.
Philip
________________________________
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jim Stone
Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag. I was
rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not installed) and
noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating clockwise (60degrees
btdc) and at a slightly different place when rotating counterclockwise(40 degrees
btdc).
At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in cylinder).
I removed the mag but no improvement.
Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to correct
it?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Casey <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler hose routing |
I'm assuming it is easier to route the hoses into the bottom or you
wouldn't be asking the question. Just remember that the oil will be
at 60psi or more, which is about 5 atmospheres(75psia). The air in
the cooler will be compressed to 1/5 its original volume at that
pressure, leaving most of the cooler with solid oil. Then during
running the remaining air will very likely be quickly absorbed in the
oil and get swept away. Once it is solid oil the air has no way to
get back in. Certainly running the hoses in the top is better, but I
wouldn't get too absorbed in routing the hoses to the top if it were
very difficult.
Gary Casey
> I am making the hoses to route to my oil cooler which is mounted
> vertically. I have an O-320 Lycoming and am wondering if there is a
> preferred way to run the oil to the cooler. Do I need to feed the
> cooler
> from the bottom or the top or does it not make any difference?
>
> Thanks:
>
> Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem, though
you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
Archie
Archie's Racing Service
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating
> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when rotating
> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in
> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
> correct it?
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had Performance
Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since (in
my basement workshop).
Hope this additional info helps,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem, though
> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
> Archie
> Archie's Racing Service
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating
>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>> rotating
>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in
>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>> correct it?
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip A. C." <philipac(at)suncraftgroup.com> |
| Subject: | Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Jim,
How is the feel of the "hang"? Solid with a Clonk, solid but not so Clonky -
rather giving for a few thousandth before to stop, or mushy?
Was the engine rotated before, when fresh from overhaul?
There is another type of FO possible: many mechanics use pieces of split
rubber hose to hold the conrods upright when joining the two half-cases.
Forget to remove one (unlikely, but can still happen...), and it can get
stuck between the crankshaft anf the cylinder's skirt. It may even allow the
engine to be rotated a few times before to wedge itself.
Internal corrosion can also do... pray not! A stuck valve can do too, and
this can be a result of corrosion on the stem.
Was the engine "pickled"?
The "feel" helps a lot in determining what's wrong, and unfortunately this
can't be sent through e-mail...
Rotate slowly, listen attentively, feel through your fingers. Remove the
valve covers and check the pushrods. See if the blockage happens when one
particular rocker starts pushing on one valve.
Regards
Philip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360
degrees
Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had Performance
Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since (in
my basement workshop).
Hope this additional info helps,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem, though
> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
> Archie
> Archie's Racing Service
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating
>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>> rotating
>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in
>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>> correct it?
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Is it every revolution, or every other? (360/720)
This may narrow it down a bit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
> Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
> The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had
> Performance
> Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
> overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since
> (in
> my basement workshop).
> Hope this additional info helps,
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
>> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem, though
>> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
>> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
>> Archie
>> Archie's Racing Service
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
>> To:
>> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating
>>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>>> rotating
>>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in
>>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>>> correct it?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Every revolution. You see, it locks up in one direction so I reverse the
rotation and it locks up at a slightly different location (one or two inches
of teeth on ring gear short of previous locked up point). I cannot get a
full revolution out of it.
Thanks,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Is it every revolution, or every other? (360/720)
> This may narrow it down a bit.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
>> Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
>> The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had
>> Performance
>> Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
>> overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since
>> (in
>> my basement workshop).
>> Hope this additional info helps,
>> Jim
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
>>> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem,
>>> though
>>> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
>>> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
>>> Archie
>>> Archie's Racing Service
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>>>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>>>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while
>>>> rotating
>>>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>>>> rotating
>>>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>>>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD
>>>> in
>>>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>>>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>>>> correct it?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Philip,
The hang is solid, firm not mushy and has sort of a clunk that can be felt
in the accessory section, which is why I removed the mag. I was present for
most of the overhaul and I had my mech disassemble the jugs to ensure they
were assembled correctly. Perhaps a mistake was made during reassembly.
The engine has always been very stiff and I don't recall every making a full
360.
The engine was not pickled, but as stated earlier, was oiled well during
assymbly and has been at 70 degrees year round with desicator plugs in each
of the upper plug holes. Moisture doesn't seem to be an issue. I'm not
sure how to check for the the pushrods but will remove the valve covers and
start trying to isolate the cause.
Thanks for your response,
Jim
> How is the feel of the "hang"? Solid with a Clonk, solid but not so
> Clonky -
> rather giving for a few thousandth before to stop, or mushy?
>
> Was the engine rotated before, when fresh from overhaul?
>
> There is another type of FO possible: many mechanics use pieces of split
> rubber hose to hold the conrods upright when joining the two half-cases.
> Forget to remove one (unlikely, but can still happen...), and it can get
> stuck between the crankshaft anf the cylinder's skirt. It may even allow
> the
> engine to be rotated a few times before to wedge itself.
>
> Internal corrosion can also do... pray not! A stuck valve can do too, and
> this can be a result of corrosion on the stem.
>
> Was the engine "pickled"?
>
> The "feel" helps a lot in determining what's wrong, and unfortunately this
> can't be sent through e-mail...
>
> Rotate slowly, listen attentively, feel through your fingers. Remove the
> valve covers and check the pushrods. See if the blockage happens when one
> particular rocker starts pushing on one valve.
>
> Regards
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Stone
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360
> degrees
>
>
> Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
> Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
> The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had
> Performance
> Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
> overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since
> (in
> my basement workshop).
> Hope this additional info helps,
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
>> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem, though
>> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
>> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
>> Archie
>> Archie's Racing Service
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
>> To:
>> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while rotating
>>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>>> rotating
>>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD in
>>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>>> correct it?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
>I had that happen to me once when I was working on a 1/2 vw;what had happened
was the gear for the distributor had fallen back in and was locking everything
up.Since I wasn't using the distributor;I was using mags;for some strnge reason
it went to a bad place.We had to dismantle the whole engine to get it out.Pain
in the ass stuff.
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> Date: 2005/12/21 Wed AM 08:54:24 EST
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Were the top edges of the 10:1 pistons champhered to provide relief where
the heads meet the cylinders? I've heard that, at 10:1 there can be some
interference. Archie would know more about that.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Every revolution. You see, it locks up in one direction so I reverse the
> rotation and it locks up at a slightly different location (one or two
> inches
> of teeth on ring gear short of previous locked up point). I cannot get a
> full revolution out of it.
> Thanks,
> Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
You got me there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jrc" <jrccea(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
> Were the top edges of the 10:1 pistons champhered to provide relief where
> the heads meet the cylinders? I've heard that, at 10:1 there can be some
> interference. Archie would know more about that.
> JimC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> Every revolution. You see, it locks up in one direction so I reverse the
>> rotation and it locks up at a slightly different location (one or two
>> inches
>> of teeth on ring gear short of previous locked up point). I cannot get a
>> full revolution out of it.
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Jim...
Could be in the assesory case...Maybe even the oil pump...Or the fuel pump
push rod...
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:27:34 -0500
Philip,
The hang is solid, firm not mushy and has sort of a clunk that can be felt
in the accessory section, which is why I removed the mag. I was present for
most of the overhaul and I had my mech disassemble the jugs to ensure they
were assembled correctly. Perhaps a mistake was made during reassembly.
The engine has always been very stiff and I don't recall every making a full
360.
The engine was not pickled, but as stated earlier, was oiled well during
assymbly and has been at 70 degrees year round with desicator plugs in each
of the upper plug holes. Moisture doesn't seem to be an issue. I'm not
sure how to check for the the pushrods but will remove the valve covers and
start trying to isolate the cause.
Thanks for your response,
Jim
> How is the feel of the "hang"? Solid with a Clonk, solid but not so
> Clonky -
> rather giving for a few thousandth before to stop, or mushy?
>
> Was the engine rotated before, when fresh from overhaul?
>
> There is another type of FO possible: many mechanics use pieces of split
> rubber hose to hold the conrods upright when joining the two half-cases.
> Forget to remove one (unlikely, but can still happen...), and it can get
> stuck between the crankshaft anf the cylinder's skirt. It may even allow
> the
> engine to be rotated a few times before to wedge itself.
>
> Internal corrosion can also do... pray not! A stuck valve can do too, and
> this can be a result of corrosion on the stem.
>
> Was the engine "pickled"?
>
> The "feel" helps a lot in determining what's wrong, and unfortunately
this
> can't be sent through e-mail...
>
> Rotate slowly, listen attentively, feel through your fingers. Remove the
> valve covers and check the pushrods. See if the blockage happens when one
> particular rocker starts pushing on one valve.
>
> Regards
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Stone
> To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360
> degrees
>
>
>
> Thanks Archie, I was hoping you would give me you opinion.
> Not sure about the rings. Probably Lycoming but not sure.
> The cylinders are new. I ordered new jugs from Lycoming and had
> Performance
> Aero flow balance and install 10 to 1 forged pistons. The engine was
> overhauled 3 years ago and has been at constant temp and humidity since
> (in
> my basement workshop).
> Hope this additional info helps,
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Archie" <archie97(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
>>
>> Excessive choke and tight ring gaps will do it.
>> If you are using standard aircraft rings, should not be a problem,
though
>> you can normally drive a truck through the gaps.
>> Are the cylinders oversize? Were they bored correctly?
>> Archie
>> Archie's Racing Service
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
>> To:
>> Subject: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I have a 0 time overhauled Lyc 540 and while attempting to set the mag.
>>> I was rotating the engine with the starter ring or flywheel (prop not
>>> installed) and noticed the engine would stop at one point while
rotating
>>> clockwise (60degrees btdc) and at a slightly different place when
>>> rotating
>>> counterclockwise(40 degrees btdc).
>>> At both hang points, no piston was approaching TDC (indicating no FOD
in
>>> cylinder). I removed the mag but no improvement.
>>> Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this and what I need to do to
>>> correct it?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees |
Say it ain't so.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
>
>
> Jim...
>
> Could be in the assesory case...Maybe even the oil pump...Or the fuel pump
> push rod...
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine won't rotate by hand a full 360 degrees
> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:27:34 -0500
>
>
> Philip,
> The hang is solid, firm not mushy and has sort of a clunk that can be felt
> in the accessory section, which is why I removed the mag. I was present
> for
> most of the overhaul and I had my mech disassemble the jugs to ensure they
> were assembled correctly. Perhaps a mistake was made during reassembly.
>
> The engine has always been very stiff and I don't recall every making a
> full
> 360.
>
> The engine was not pickled, but as stated earlier, was oiled well during
> assymbly and has been at 70 degrees year round with desicator plugs in
> each
> of the upper plug holes. Moisture doesn't seem to be an issue. I'm not
> sure how to check for the the pushrods but will remove the valve covers
> and
> start trying to isolate the cause.
>
> Thanks for your response,
> Jim
>
> > How is the feel of the "hang"? Solid with a Clonk, solid but not so
> > Clonky -
> > rather giving for a few thousandth before to stop, or mushy?
> >
> > Was the engine rotated before, when fresh from overhaul?
> >
> > There is another type of FO possible: many mechanics use pieces of split
> > rubber hose to hold the conrods upright when joining the two half-cases.
> > Forget to remove one (unlikely, but can still happen...), and it can get
> > stuck between the crankshaft anf the cylinder's skirt. It may even allow
> > the
> > engine to be rotated a few times before to wedge itself.
> >
> > Internal corrosion can also do... pray not! A stuck valve can do too,
> > and
> > this can be a result of corrosion on the stem.
> >
> > Was the engine "pickled"?
> >
> > The "feel" helps a lot in determining what's wrong, and unfortunately
> this
> > can't be sent through e-mail...
> >
> > Rotate slowly, listen attentively, feel through your fingers. Remove the
> > valve covers and check the pushrods. See if the blockage happens when
> > one
> > particular rocker starts pushing on one valve.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Philip
> >
May 07, 2005 - December 21, 2005
Engines-Archive.digest.vol-am
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