Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ab
November 16, 1995 - - - - , 20-
Builder No. 215
Tel. No. 01474 873799 (home), 01474 834302 (work)
Just finishing tail, about to order wings. Wondering like everyone
else at this stage of build, just what ARE those 2 nylon cylinders
for!
Learnt a lot at Doncaster Club weekend. Need to learn a lot about all
this E-MAIL guff.
Is there any one there??
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Construction Techniques Video ! |
| From: | Robert T Hill <genesis7(at)tribeca.ios.com> |
Not only would the video be appreciated by builders, but also people like
me who are considering building. It would give us a better idea of the
skills and challenges involved. Please be sure it can be released in
American standards also. Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi,
Following up a discussion in the bar at Doncaster, can anyone find a price and
UK supplier of digital clinometers?.....................After hearing how easy
and accurate they are my life seems incomplete without one!!
Also, Stephen Eyre asked << just what ARE those 2 nylon cylinders for! >>
You must have the earlier tailplane manual Stephen, as later in the build you
have to saw your precious tailplanes in half and insert nylon bushes in the
middle, then patch halves back together with bid. You obviously haven't received
the mod showing how to insert them before joining the foam cores, pity you've
already done the skin layups!
(Only joking!............they are actually to be inserted on tailplane torque
tube inside fuselage as thrust bearings, to stop tailplane moving laterally.
Earlier builders may know what I'm trying to say though!!)
Allan J Hall #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Pattinson <101362.1117(at)compuserve.com> |
Ron Swindens fishline technique is so simple it really dosent need a video to
explain things. All you need is several lengths of about 10lb breaking strain
line and half a dozen house bricks. Tie a brick (or half brick) to end of each
line and drape over surface to be filled at about 18ins intervals (ie- paralell
accross wing surface for example) . Slap large wodge of mixed filler on surface
and spread evenly with wide spreader (plasterers spreaders are available at pro
paint shops and are about 24 ins long - ideal !) Actually its best if the lines
are placed after filler is applied. Then scrape along the tops of the lines
(they act like rails) to remove the excess mix which is then reused further
along the surface. Systematically work your way along the flying surface moving
the first line to the next position and so on. If the filler is slightly on the
wet side, the marks left by the lines will fill in when the lines are removed.
Voila ! (I think that means "and there you have it "- in French).
Failing this I have a set of pictures of the filling and sanding process as
displayed at Sywell.
Hope this helps.
Dot and Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Clinometers |
Allan J Hall wrote:
>Following up a discussion in the bar at Doncaster, can anyone find a price and
>UK supplier of digital clinometers?
No, sorry. I did see an ad for one ages ago, but it was so ridiculously
expensive that I didn't bother to keep a note of it. It's the sort of thing
I'd have thought that RS might have stocked in their mechanical section,
but there's nothing in the catalogue I've got.
I've been interested in them more seriously since Nigel Charles
demonstrated his to me at Sywell in April. His came from USA, but I'm not
sure where, and it was somewhere in the $50-$100 price bracket, I think.
Anyone in the USA able to give guidance here for Allan? At least name &
location of manufacturer would be useful. I've had success in the past by
phoning US manufacurers to find if they have a distributor in UK. Sometimes
they say "no, but tell us what you want & we'll ship direct", sometimes
there is a distributor with the stuff in stock.
My boss is (rather unexpectedly) sending me to do some work for a week in
San Francisco in December, so when I get the job done I thought I might
look for one over there. However, I think the customs might look a bit
askance if I brought back a bulk purchase of them. If you're the only one
interested, that might be OK, but I can't give any advance guarantee on
price.
For my shopping trip, can anyone give advice on prices, stockists (around
Redwood City) and makes/models to seek out or avoid?
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | genesis7(at)tribeca.ios.com (Robert T. Hill) |
| Subject: | Re: Fishline Technique |
>Ron Swindens fishline technique is so simple it really dosent need a video to
>explain things. All you need is several lengths of about 10lb breaking strain
>line and half a dozen house bricks. Tie a brick ...
>Slap large wodge of mixed filler ... Systematically work your way along the
flying surface...
Hmmm... What's that adage about picture being worth...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa_mail: Trailing Edge Close-out Technique |
Reply to Dino Baker
>>My intructions call for two plies plus two extra plies at aileron
hinges. Plus two plies for flap close out. Hoping the instructions
are correct. Please correct me if wrong.<<
You're right, I didn't bother to read the plans, it was well over a year ago
when I did the job.
BTW Carrying a wet layup on cling film isn't hard. Rolling out unsupported 45
degree BID without distortion is near impossible. Try it both ways.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>can anyone find a price and
UK supplier of digital clinometers?<<
John Grant might know. I think he paid around L200. 01603 871 926
Nice to have but not essential. The most useful tool is a more accurate version
of the gadget described in the plans, a protractor with a swinging nail. I have
a Sears Anglefinder which reads to 1/2 degree.(Aircraft Spruce)
It's possible to detect 1/10th of a degree with a spirit level.
You might try US Tools or Snap On.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZNTR41A(at)prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J MCKECHNIE) |
| Subject: | ometer (Yankspeak: Level) |
-- [ From: Bob McKechnie * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
An outfit called Macklanburg-Duncan (md), 4041 N. Santa Fe, Oklahoma
City, OK 73118 (1-800-762-7853) makes a digital electronic level which
works really well. Called "Smartlevel" and it is shown in the Aircraft
Spruce catalog at US$83.50 for the sensor portion. 24" rail is
US$20.75. Aircraft Spruce has a homepage at http://www.aircraft-
spruce.com/
They list a UK outlet "Aircraft Spruce Europe," located at 8 Cam Centre,
Wilbury Way, Hitchen in Hertfordshire (SG4 OTW). Telephone is (0) 462
441995.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZNTR41A(at)prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J MCKECHNIE) |
-- [ From: Bob McKechnie * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
Re suggestion for video.
Mike Arnold, designer/builder of AR-5, a speedy little single seater,
has a neat video showing layup and other FG techniques which I found
extremely informative. Included is the system of using plastic
sheeting described recently by Graham Singleton for smaller pieces.
It's titled "How It's Made." Available from him at THE ARNOLD COMPANY,
5950 So. Land Park Drive #361, Sacramento, CA 95822 USA. It runs 115
minutes and is about US$40. I don't know if it is available in PAL
format or cost of converting from VHS.
He has several others, including one describing the aircraft and its
record setting speed run (75 min.), one concerning fabrication of
landing gear fairings, and another titled "Making Fiberglass Molds."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl_Reynaud_at_RAY__RMC__NAUTECH(at)ccmail.eo.ray.com |
| Subject: | tal Clinometer Supplies |
I have found two suppliers of digital clinometers.
Buck and Hickman, tel 01705 254341, length from 24 to 100ins, accuracy
0.3 degrees (assume +/-). Cost 114.99 to 132.24 GBP + VAT.
TSB Metrology Ltd, 2inch square unit. They haven't sent me any info
yet and I only have their fax number, 01895 430002.
Hope this is of some use
Carl Reynaud #159
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Sonderskov <100563.1141(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Construction Techniques Video ! |
Great idea, I'd buy one.
I'm not a builder, YET. Having read most of the e-mails over the past couple of
months I have a much better idea of the scale of the job involved. A video of
some of the trickier techniques and procedures would be of great interest.
Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital Clinometers |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Allan Hall asked about Digital bubbles....
I have a Bosch one which reads to 0.1 degree. It is very good at
relative levels but exceedingly complicated to reset to absolute
levels. (for this I use an ordinary bubble) I got it from "any good
tools shop" and it cost about GBP 80 - 100 if I remember correctly.
I would have got the aircraft spruce one which I think is cheaper
but they didn't have one in at the time. It is good because the
clever bit can be removed from the straight edge and inserted in
ones of different lengths or in a jig of your own making. (I have a
friend in Italy who has incorporated one in a ground adjustable
prop pitch adjusting jig which works beautifully and is far more
accurate and easier to use than any other device I have ever seen.)
Having not seen one for a while I can't remember their resolution
but I would suggest you need one no worse than 0.1 deg. It is also
vital that whatever one you get it can be zeroed at any angle of
your choice so you can easily get relative levels.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
My policy has just come up for renewal. HR Jennings thro Commercial Union are
quoting GBP 198.11 for GBP 30K cover. If anyone knows of a company who can
better this, I'd be glad of the info.
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZNTR41A(at)prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J MCKECHNIE) |
-- [ From: Bob McKechnie * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
The "md" Smartlevel can be set to a resolution of 0.1 or 0.2 degrees,
depending on your needs. It reads over a full 360 degree range and is
easily set to read in degrees, slope(%)[which is equivalent to
cm./meter], pitch (in./ft.), or a similutated "bubble!" Also, it is
readily recalibrated. Rails for insertion of the sensor unit can be
had up to 8 ft. long.
Bob (#A007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Swinden <100776.2633(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | nd first flight?? |
Thought you might all like to know that yesterday and today Graham Brunwin and
Melvins Cross's Europa flew lots with no problems at all. Martin Stoner was
doing the business and Melvin and Graham got into the act later. Gremlins in
the asi otherwise all seemed very well. Wonderfull conditions both days after
the filthy stuff that kept them grounded last week . We Grobbed in to see them
today and I asked Graham to write a piece for the Flyer as soon as he lands
(he's been up there two days now) The Subaru was vey quite and smooth so early
on we have the first of the alternative engines that so many people wanted up
and running well started into its test programme Ron S & Mike Dolphin. Bi
Keep at it y' all.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
I gather Martin Stoner test flew the Graham Brunwin / Melvin Cross
Aero Developments Subaru Europa at Kemble today. (sun 19 Nov)
Congratulations!
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Construction Techniques Video ! |
Further to my recent posting about the setting up of a "Europa Construction
Techniques" picture gallery on the Web, I promised a reference to the Velocity
builder's excellent site. It's called "The Agony and Ecstasy of Kitbuilding".
You'll find it at:
http://www.tacoma.net/~venky/Velocity/
If you transcribe the URL manually, make sure the case is exactly as I have
above...
Alan Jackson
PS
I'm considering writing and making available on the Web a system for booking
shared aircraft. By logging on to the Web site you will be able to view (and
print) the
'diary' for your aircraft, reserve slots and contact (by e-mail or phone) the
person who has made a booking. Features such as automatically mailing the group
when a booking is placed or removed could be added. If you have any thoughts on
whether such a system is likely to be used or features you'd like to see in such
a system, please let me know over the news group or privately at:
jackson_a(at)sls.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Jackson <smtp%\"jackson_a(at)sls.co.uk\"> |
| Subject: | Re: Construction Techniques Video ! |
.I have the Equipment, Camera, Lighting and Editing equipment to do this
.if I could get together with a few builders (UK) and the factory to put a
.Building Techniques Video together....
. EMAIL me if interested
I think a video is a very good idea, although I suspect the practicalities are
enormous. A much simpler/interim option would be to put together a picture
gallery and commentary on the Web. Stills contributed by (proud!) builders must
be available in great abundance. Scanning contributions into a format suitable
for downloading via the Web is straightforward. There would be an editing task
and
someone (more knowledgeable than me) needed to provide the words to go with the
chosen pictures. The expertise to format the whole lot into Web (so called
HTML) format is likely to reside within the Europa News group (PS I do it for a
living and I'd galdly swap some of my spare time for some Europa air-time!).
I know this format works well 'cos there's a Web site contributed by
a State-side Velocity builder which I was following (until a year ago when his
efforts were temporarily halted). When I locate the URL I'll post it for you to
have a look at.
Assuming the video is well advanced by the time the stills Web site is up and
running, a frame grabber can be used to turn selected scenes from the video
into downloadable images. Commentary to go with the grabbed frames would make a
useful addition to the stills site and would be invaluable as a promotional
aid....
To summarise, there are no technical problems with putting together a picture
gallery on the Web but an awful lot of organisational ones! However, there is
no doubting the real value of such a project if a small working party with time
and
commitment (ie probably not existing builders!) can be organised.
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Construction Techniques Video ! |
..I have the Equipment, Camera, Lighting and Editing equipment to do this
..if I could get together with a few builders (UK) and the factory to put a
..Building Techniques Video together....
.. EMAIL me if interested
I think a video is a very good idea, although I suspect the practicalities are
enormous. A much simpler/interim option would be to put together a picture
gallery and commentary on the Web. Stills contributed by (proud!) builders must
be available in great abundance. Scanning contributions into a format suitable
for
downloading via the Web is straightforward. There would be an editing task and
someone (more knowledgeable than me) needed to provide the words to go with the
chosen pictures. The expertise to format the whole lot into Web (so called
HTML)
format is likely to reside within the Europa News group (PS I do it for a
living and I'd galdly swap some of my spare time for some Europa air-time!).
I know this format works well 'cos there's a Web site contributed by
a State-side Velocity builder which I was following (until a year ago when his
efforts were temporarily halted). When I locate the URL I'll post it for you to
have a look at.
Assuming the video is well advanced by the time the stills Web site is up and
running, a frame grabber can be used to turn selected scenes from the video
into downloadable images. Commentary to go with the grabbed frames would make a
useful addition to the stills site and would be invaluable as a promotional
aid....
To summarise, there are no technical problems with putting together a picture
gallery on the Web but an awful lot of organisational ones! However, there is
no doubting
the real value of such a project if a small working party with time and
commitment (ie probably not existing builders!) can be organised.
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | then there were three |
Spoke to Andy Draper at the factory today, apparently he flew first flight on
second finished Europa in Ireland on Thursday, making Graham Brunwin & Melvin
Cross's the third customer plane to fly.
Rotax 2, Subaru 1........................
Allan J.Hall #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lyell <100043.2725(at)compuserve.com> |
Like Pete Sonderskov I'm not yet a builder but I too think that a video
illustrating the build techniques and shortcuts discussed on this mailing list
would be an excellent addition to the Europa "information bank" - I would buy
one assumming a price of around GBP 30 - 40.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
I got lucky today :-) Over the weekend I've been helping Dave Dufton with his
Subaru Europa, briefly tidying up things like the revised pitot position (on the
wing, and a simple to do mod) then towing it down to Kemble for Air Oh Dee
(Brunwin & Cross) to supervise installation of the engine. G-NDOL was there of
course and for once I was at the right place and time in space to be offered a
brief ride. (GGG)
Take off I never saw. 50 yards and we were levitated as soon as the stick was
eased forward. None of your traditional taildragger raise the tail and wait.
Climb was a magic 1200 fpm at around 1280 lbs. Handling was delightful, just
like Peter Kember's. The Subaru is almost as quiet as the Rotax, but with a
slightly deeper exhaust note, quite pleasing from the ground. BTW this was a 118
HP NSI engine.
Dave remarked that the next issue of the club magazine is looking a bit thin,
seems we're all too busy building or E'mailing ti write articles for him. I
shall try and write something but he needs a lot more. It matters, guys, so get
busy.
Kemble will be a superb venue for a fly in!
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Power |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Graham
My sources say that with the extra power there is quite a beastlike
torque effect on takeoff. true or false?
regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
I have just ordered my first stage of the Europa and am anticipating delivery
early next week. I have many questions about engine options, as I am now
leaning toward the Subaru. And what about propellers, gear reductions, lights,
and other options.
I am anxious to hear from other Europa enthusiasts, as I believe this will be
one of the best kits on the U.S. market in the years to come.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Construction Techniques Video ! |
..I have the Equipment, Camera, Lighting and Editing equipment to do this
..if I could get together with a few builders (UK) and the factory to put a
..Building Techniques Video together....
.. EMAIL me if interested
I think a video is a very good idea, although I suspect the practicalities are
enormous. A much simpler/interim option would be to put together a picture
gallery and commentary on the Web. Stills contributed by (proud!) builders must
be available in great abundance. Scanning contributions into a format suitable
for downloading via the Web is straightforward. There would be an editing task
and
someone (more knowledgeable than me) needed to provide the words to go with the
chosen pictures. The expertise to format the whole lot into Web (so called
HTML) format is likely to reside within the Europa News group (PS I do it for a
living and I'd galdly swap some of my spare time for some Europa air-time!).
I know this format works well 'cos there's a Web site contributed by
a State-side Velocity builder which I was following (until a year ago when his
efforts were temporarily halted). When I locate the URL I'll post it for you to
have a look at.
Assuming the video is well advanced by the time the stills Web site is up and
running, a frame grabber can be used to turn selected scenes from the video
into downloadable images. Commentary to go with the grabbed frames would make a
useful addition to the stills site and would be invaluable as a promotional
aid....
To summarise, there are no technical problems with putting together a picture
gallery on the Web but an awful lot of organisational ones! However, there is
no doubting the real value of such a project if a small working party with time
and
commitment (ie probably not existing builders!) can be organised.
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
Yamaha are releasing an 850cc watercooled two stroke as a direct replacement
for similar Rotax units (even down to the engine mountings). Not only does
Yamaha have the extensive dealership network in place it is rumoured to be half
the price of the Rotax. Worth watching I think...
At the more exotic end there's the 70hp, air-cooled, V-twin, blown 2-stroke
aerodiesel from Zoche. The July issue of Flyer magazine waxed exceeding
lyrical about this power unit. It is smaller, considerably lighter, simpler,
easier to maintain and uses only about 60% of the fuel (which is half
the cost of petrol). It is not in full scale production yet but is
tipped to be a real winner.
Another interesting concept is the Mid West Aeroengines (nee Norton) rotary
engine. There was an issue of Flyer magazine in 1994 which had a look at it
fixed to an RV Super 2 (which, as Aviation Scotland with the RV2 kit
called the Highlander, has gone out of business).
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Re Alan Jackson`s mail on engines
Zoche engines......"Jam tomorrow".
Yamaha......Is this the 4-stroke that M4 are developing? In my opinion too small
for the Europa (wouldn`t produce enough torque).
MidWest......very expensive, fuel burn better than a 2-stroke but worse than 4,
nice and light. I understand that there is a Europa builder somewhere
undertaking an installation.
BMW..... ah, now you`re talking (had you mentioned it)! Ivan has gone public on
this one at last. There is at least one other Europa builder to my knowledge
making serious progress on this.
As with any new conversion, there is alot of financial and technical risk
involved; such projects may yet all end in tears and are not for the feint
hearted. Best to let someone else try it first!
regards, no. 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
<>
What is the copy deadline for the next issue?
Could Dave use edited highlights from the Europa mail group archives for the
club magazine, or do copyright issues get in the way? Could be a useful way to
help fill the pages.
Allan J Hall #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
<>
Graham,
Well done on getting an exclusive ride in G-NDOL. Sounds like the NSI Subaru
engine performs well, do you have any figures on finished weight? Did weight &
balance work out OK?
Allan J Hall #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Power |
Reply to Richard's query >>My sources say that with the extra power there is
quite a beastlike torque effect on takeoff. true or false?
False. Take off in a monowheel Europa happens so quickly it can be confusing. If
you try to lift the tail too soon you lose tailwheel steering which is very
positive, before the rudder is fully effective and gyroscopic effects swing the
nose. However the easy way is to keep the stick back until around 35 kts IAS
then slowly release the back pressure, at which point the aircraft quietly
levitates. It's only when control movements are excessive and probably too late
anyway that the take off will be somewhat untidy. Even if you do get behind the
aeroplane it will sort it all out in a very few seconds.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>What is the copy deadline for the next issue?<<
Early December, I think. Dave isn't up to speed yet with his computer. Too tied
up finishing G-OURO. Engine should be going in any day now. Hopefully if
someone, Pete? could send him a floppy with interesting postings in ASCII
or whatever is suitable, that would help a lot. John Grant is reasonably
literate and not far away.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
What is the latest update on the progress of using the Suburu engine in the
Europa. NSI advertises a 100hp, 118hp. What are the differences? I have heard
that Europa is testing the 118 hp engine. Do you know of the results so far?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
I will receive in the next few days the first stage of the Europa airplane kit.
I have helped my friends build an RV-6, but this is our first try at "compost"
airplanes. I am very much looking forward to exchanging information about
anything that is related to the Europa. I think the future is bright in the US
for the Europa.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | t Flight of G-NDOL |
Just heard from Ron Swinden (by phone, his computer is having indigestion
when trying to get online at present) that the second customer-built Europa
has flown today.
The Subaru-powered machine of Graham Brunwin & Melvin Cross (kit #044, PFA
project 247-12594, G-NDOL) was first flown by Martin "Stumpy" Stoner (who's
designing the Europa pilot conversion course). Graham Brunwin flew with
Martin on a subsequent flight. About 90 minutes flight so far, and no
complaints reported. Ron says the Subaru sounds to him even quieter than
the Rotax installation.
Congratulations to Graham & Melvin.
Next up is likely to be David Dufton, probably sometime next week.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | nsurance Ground Cover |
Hi everyone.
I've only had two replies since my last mailing on this subject. One (thanks
Alan) said my insurer seemed very competitive against the Europa recommended
one - and another from Polygon asking me for details of my cover - I'd forgotten
- but apparently they are involved with Europa somehow. I did contact an
insurance company in the Channel Islands about 18 months ago - they said they
would get in touch with me and with Europa - but I never heard anything more
from them. Anyway for anyone who is interested, try Maureen Sanlon at HR
Jennings - 0181 680 0688. My ground cover is for fire, storm, tempest, flood,
burst pipes, aircraft, explosion, riot, civil comm, malicious damage, theft
risks, angry wives, angry dogs - you name it. My quote for L30K was L198.11.
L30K you ask? is that all?? - well my labour comes very cheap!!
Bye
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
>Yamaha are releasing an 850cc watercooled two stroke as a direct replacement
>for similar Rotax units (even down to the engine mountings). Not only does
>Yamaha have the extensive dealership network in place it is rumoured to be half
>the price of the Rotax. Worth watching I think...
>
>At the more exotic end there's the 70hp, air-cooled, V-twin, blown 2-stroke
>aerodiesel from Zoche. The July issue of Flyer magazine waxed exceeding
>lyrical about this power unit. It is smaller, considerably lighter, simpler,
>easier to maintain and uses only about 60% of the fuel (which is half
>the cost of petrol). It is not in full scale production yet but is
>tipped to be a real winner.
>
>Another interesting concept is the Mid West Aeroengines (nee Norton) rotary
>engine. There was an issue of Flyer magazine in 1994 which had a look at it
>fixed to an RV Super 2 (which, as Aviation Scotland with the RV2 kit
>called the Highlander, has gone out of business).
>
>Alan Jackson
There is an aeroplane flying in the UK with the mid West engine in at the
moment (Test bed) There is also a rather interesting truck with one
strapped to the back...I believe that certification is due real soon
now...watch FLYER for further details in the next month or so...
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | R magazine coverage... |
OK I know, this message may earn me a few extra pounds...but the next issue
of FLYER (January, on sale third Thursday of December...only =A32.50) will
have lots and lots of Europa pages...a flight test of the Tri-Gear, an
interview with Ivan, a look at the past present and future plus some words
about a new engine, plus more besides...there'll even be a picture or two
Happy reading over Xmas
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>What is the latest update on the progress of using the Suburu engine in the
Europa. <<
Going well. Europa aren't involved except to keep a watching eye on the
proceedings, it's another English company called Aero Developements. They have
just started test flying with a 118 NSI unit. Climbs well, 1200 fpm at gross
weight. Cruise not yet measured. The only big question to be answered is will
the spin recovery be as quick and easy (let go the stick after 6 turns and it
comes out before 7.5) because of the higher polar moment of inertia. The NSI
unit is rather heavy compared to the Rotax and requires 15 lbs of lead in the
tail. At least, that's what was needed to get into the first flight box. Some of
that will come out as testing proceeds.
The airplane is a delight to fly and has a most acceptable angle of climb.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>his is our first try at "compost"
airplanes. <<
Welcome to the wattle & daub club! It's different. Personally I think it's
easier and quicker. At least the airframe part. However when you've built the
airframe you are still halfway there. Be careful with the toxicity of the resin
and dust and you will be rewarded with a superb airplane.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Graham" <Nigel_Graham(at)eurogw1.mentorg.com> |
Dear Europa Builders,
As the Rolling Stones once said "Please allow me to introduce myself".
My name is Nigel Graham and I live on the south coast of England in a medium
sized, double glazed, centrally heated, fully insulated, pine clad workshop,
equipped with all the necessary equipment to build a Europa.......sterio, CD,
TV, Video and a well stocked 'fridge! Somewhere round the back is a three
bedroomed house, but to be honest with you, I don't see it that much. Should
the French government finally get their way and reduce the planet to a heap
of smouldering rubble, there's a very real possibility that I wouldn't even
notice!
I began my project some four years ago with kit -1 ......the workshop.
Years of restoring old British motorcycles in a poorly lit garage so cold
that only regular mugs of tea would restore the feeling to my hands convinced
me of the need for something a little more practical, something worthy of an
aircraft, something worthy of a Europa.
I bought my Europa (B/N 147) last August (94).. almost on impulse. Having
methodically drawn up a short list of four home build aircraft to evaluate,
Kirkbymoorside just happend to be the first on the list. One test flight
later and I was driving slowly home with a huge box strapped to the roof of
the car (I didn't get to see the others), most of the six and a half hour
drive was spent working out how I was going to explain this to my other
half!
Due to work commitments, I couldn't start building until February, but since
then thing have been moving at a cracking pace. With the tail and wings
finished, I have recently collected my fuselage and am now occupied dressing
the bucketload of metalwork ready for annodising.
Like most of you, I have enthusiastically read any and everthing on the
Europa, and without a doubt the most significant breakthrough in
communications has to be the setting up an running of this internet
facility...my sincere thanks to Peter Thomas for that. I have avidly read
each and every posting, but have kept my own head down untill I felt I had
something worthwhile to contribute.
I have notice an increasing number of requests for some form of
instructional video, indeed it was one of the first things that I looked for
(without any luck) when I started as a "rookie" laminator.
Since the very beginning, I have meticulously recorded everything that I
have done on video. This was done for two reasons, the first was simply to
produce a "Video Diary" to look back on in future years, and the second was
to provide backup "Evidence" should my PFA inspector (or the CAA) ever want
to check on anything I had done. I have now amassed about twelve hours of
footage covering all aspects of the first two kits, tail and wings. This
could be condensed down to a running time of about an hour. I have recorded
this using semi proffesional equipment directly onto "Master" quality S-VHS
tapes. I can guarantee that the quality will be better than your average
wedding video!.........and a lot better than that fifteenth generation porno
video that you have hidden away in that "Sound of Music" video case!
I reiterate that this is a record how I built my plane, warts and all and
is not in any way a factory authorised video, however if there is sufficient
interest I will happily set about getting some copies produced. There will be
no "wowy and fluttery" sound track .....though if you really want one you
could dub the music off your "Sound of Music" tape!
If you are interested, contact me here.
Lastly, if any Europa builder (or potential builder) living in or near
Southampton would like to call in for a beer and a good "Yak" I would be only
too pleased to see you... just E mail me.
Happy building
Nigel Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | REIDDL(at)CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU |
| Subject: | Re: Build Videos |
Two items.... I'd be interested in the tape that Nigel Graham says he can
edit down to 1 - 2 hours. I don't want him to take time away from the
fuselage kit to do the editing unless he needs a break.
Secondly, a few postings back there was a 1/2 sentence phrase saying that
the NEW ENGINE is from BMW, and it apparently had Ivan
's apporoval. Since then there has been absolutely nothing except info
about the Subaru project. Was the disclosure premature?
Is it a vicious rumor. With as much info and speculation passing around here
about what the new engine would be, deisel, etc. I thought that people would
pick up on that line and talk it to death. Any further info?
Dale (for Don Heath, USA official kit #1 or something like that)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Thanks for your reply on lightweight fillers.
The Glasurit Vari Prime you mention doesn`t seem to be available in the UK; the
Glasurit agent had not heard of it and was keen to sell me a heavyweight
substitute (Glasurit 285-100).
Have you any other leads on this?
regards, no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Sonderskov <100563.1141(at)compuserve.com> |
The idea of a web site dedicated to the Europa is well worth considering. If
anyone is working on such, please let me know, I'd be happy to help. I'm
involved in producing the web site for the newspaper I work for and although not
an expert by any means, I'm keen to do more for what I believe is a good cause.
I'm not yet a builder but when I am I hope many of the problems will have been
solved. All we need to do is to keep good records and pass on the information,
what else is the information super highway good for.
Pete Sonderskov (North London)
100563.1141(at)compuserve.com
0171 830 7000 ext 1386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Park <101363.3552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RNATIVE PAINT SYSTEMS FOR THE EUROPA |
Hello All,
Is there an alternative to the paint system being promoted by Europa Aviation?
If so, could someone send me details or refer me to the appropiate place in the
Europa Mail archive.
I understand that an Acrylic 2 pack type paint, normally used on cars, does not
offer sufficient UV protection. Any comments?
Best wishes, Graeme Park (Kit no 106).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Pete Sonderskov recently asked about a Europa Web site.<<
Well the nearest thing I know of so far is the site set up in parallel with this
mail server. Tune you web browser to....
http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa
I am just putting the finishing touches to the latest factory newsletter (number
12) web page. Should be ready this time tomorrow. Lots of good things to read
about in this issue. Three new Europas flying, the full BMW engine story and a
glider wing development.
Don't forget that all Europa_Mail from the archives is also available from the
above URL.
If anyone would like to contribute ANY Europa related HTML I would be very
grateful.
Best Wishes
Pete
#191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Videos |
Reply to Dale & Don Heath.
The new engine to be evaluated by Europa is the latest BMW RS90 motor cycle
engine, a development order has been placed for a gearbox redrive. Don't hold
your breath, it could be 18months away from aproval.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | rman Glider Pilot in America |
Let me introduce myself to yall. I am a 46 year old German living since 1987
in the Old South of the US of A, in Raleigh North Carolina. Being a passionate
glider pilot, I just sold my LS4 that I put over 600 hours on and bought a
Schleicher ASW 24. For those of you not familiar with gliders, this is a 15 m
Standard Class machine with winglets and a glide ratio of (hopefully) 43:1. I
also hold a private SEL license and am working on my instrument rating.
The Europa caught my eye many years ago since, I found it had some of the design
features normally only found in gliders. I particularly liked the laminar
airfoil, developed with the help of people familiar with high performance
gliders. Also, most of the fiberglass American homebuilts are not suitable for
operation from grass strips. My wish is to find out more about the Europa and
perhaps start building one. As a mechanical engineer with plenty of model
building experience (of course airplanes) I think I could do it.
Of course, I would especially like to hear from Europa builders or those
interested in starting their own project here in the US. Anybody else
interested in soaring the US East coast sites, let me know. I am a member of
several clubs in NC and Virginia and the ridge soaring along the Appalachian
Mountains can be pretty spectacular.
See you at the airport!
Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Videos |
"The new engine to be evaluated by Europa is the latest BMW RS90 motor cycle
engine,"
I hope not! This is the old 900cc pushrod motor. Try R1100RS 90hp version.
Regards, no 175_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Thanks to those who replied to my plea for help on filling. Some observations
and further comment on these are as follows:
1.I couldn`t see what was wrong with applying the filler dry (and light) other
than it`s a pig to get on and it takes ages (weeks) to cure.I think I may
persevere with the dry stuff at least on the counterbalanced surfaces; my
patience will probably expire sometime during the wings.
2.The Swinden fishing-line technique doesn`t work with dry filler.
3.Warm resin, as suggested in one of the replies, is beneficial in aiding the
mixing and spreading of a dry mix. To extend this, microwaving the mixed filler
for about 15 seconds I have found to be worthwhile (longer heating results in
resin gelling before application,damage to Expancel or exotherm).
4.I have found that the filler needs to persuaded to stick to the layup rather
than the spatula. To this end I have tried Teflon coated tools (didn`t really
work). Plain steel tools seem the best (its the same for puttying windows), but
has anyone else found a magic solution?
5.The persuasion process can be aided by coating the layup with a very thin coat
of pure epoxy (rubbed on with a rag, rather in the manner of French polishing)
and letting this go tacky. Timing is critical however.
6.Europa`s Q-cel (and not anyone elses) is excellent in addition to colloidal
silica in promoting thixotropy; something to do with improving the particle size
distribution of the solids.Expancel and fume together produce a `gap graded`
product.
Sorry to go on at length. Any wheezes anyone has come up with would be most
appreciated.
Regards, no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I have found that the filler needs to persuaded to stick to the layup<<
We find that colloidal silica helps both spreading the filler and allowing some,
(not all :-( ) of the inevitable air bubbles to dissipate. We don't think very
dry mixes are a good thing in the long term, softer and therefore more likely to
get damaged in handling etc. The plastic microballoons sand easily even with
Cabosil in.
Life is easier also, if you can avoid putting new micro on top of sanded micro.
(Low spots etc.) The old absorbs resin and then becomes harder so doesn't sand
evenly.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Does anyone have the dimensions - in particular the overall width - of the
Europa trailer as supplied by the factory?
I want to check if it would go through a specific garage door (which is
2.18m wide between the woodwork).
If no-one knows, I'll call the factory when they open again.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
Re: Trailer Dimensions
A quick measure reveals that at its widest (mudguard to mudguard) the factory
supplied trailer is exactly 2.0 metres wide.
Regards
Martin J K Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stirling(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (chas stirling) |
Hi-I am new to the net and after 1 week of fumbling around it still blows
my mind how you can push a few buttons and relate to the subject dearest
to many of our hearts.Many thanks are due to the people who help to keep
Europa builders in touch through whatever medium.
Anyway as with many of the milestones achieved along the Europa road we
seem to get left with more questions than answers-here are some of mine.
After endless deliberations I felt inclined towards the suburu 100 NSI.
According to recent information kits are being completed above the pre-
dicted weight.Added to this the extra weight of the Suburu plus the tail
weight-does this mean?
1. Useable weight could be down by approx. 150 lb.
2. This is on the 115 NSI-are the implications for the lower powered
100 NSI even more worrying?
3. Am I the only one starting to revise my opinions (come back Rotax
all is forgiven).
Any ideas on these issues would be gratefully received.
Regards to all - Chas Stirling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | letter Number 12 |
Hello Everyone
The Europa Factory Newsletter for November 95 (Number 12) is now available to
down load from the archive. It is also at our Web site :-
http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa
(Don't forget I am always on the look out for articles for the web site. If you
would like to see your name in electronic lights please e-mail them to me. The
web is probably the best media we have available to us that allows us to
exchange pictorial and diagrammatic information. Scanners are widely available
so get those Europa pictures and diagrams off to the local Pronto-Print and
e-mail them to me for inclusion on the Web)
To REQUEST majordomo to send you the text only version of the latest newsletter
you need to send the following message to the europa-request(at)avnet.co.uk
address. (The command must be in the body of the message not the subject)
get europa nwslet12.txt
Please do not send your commands to the normal contributions address as I get
swamped with bounce error messages. Also be aware that this file is nearly 50
Kbytes in size and could take a while to down load if you have a slow modem.
To wet your appetite here is the table of contents :-
Introduction
Oshkosh 95
The Seating Mod
Main gear Articulation
Don's New Book
Throttle Cable
Computerised Foam Cutting
Personnel Changes
Product Support
Future Developments
New Engine Developments
BMW
Glider Wing
Pitot Tube Modification
Neville's Orifice Mod
Kit Prices
Aircraft Weight
Copperstate Fly In - Report from the US Office
STOP PRESS
Best Wishes
Peter Thomas
Europa Builder #191
PS We now have about 145 subscribers to the Europa List but we still don't know
exactly how many builders. If you are a builder and havn't yet responded to the
subscribers survey, please download the survey.txt file from the archive and
e-mail me your details for inclusion in this file.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ru v Rotax Engines |
In reply to Chas Stirling
<| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
Well said Allan,
Unless you really need hot and high performance then the average
europa goes ok with a 912. Roll on a decently priced vp prop, which
would of course extend the legs for a Subaru euro. Its got to be a
'good thing'.
RC Allen electric horizons: try a used horizon if you really want
one (and why not, it gets very hazy crossing the channel!) Mine came
from R&D aviation at a decent price,but you may have to wait for
availability. Dont bother asking for a used electric DI, they are as
rare as europa nosedraggers! Also try to keep everything 12V,
inverters are heavy bits of kit when you add it all up.
chus, dave
kit67
Hmmmm, GBP35k..thats a lot of money...better not let the wife know..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Park <101363.3552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | lers for the Europa |
Dear all,
I am looking for alternatives to the factory's open trailer, which I feel is a
bit expensive at L1700 incl. VAT with the latest increase.
Kevin Wade of Wade Trailers, well thought of in the microlight world, can do a
similar trailer for less than L1000 incl. VAT, but he needs at least six orders
to make it worth his while. Please contact me if you are interested (TEL: UK
01505 842721 or E-mail me).
Another alternative would be to build our own open trailers but does anyone have
accurate plans?
Best wishes, Graeme (Trebleton) Park, Scotland. (No.106)
P.S. ALTERNATIVE PAINT SYSTEMS: Thank you, Graham and Rolph, for your helpful
suggestions. Is anyone else using a different paint system?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | sletter Number 12 |
get europa nwslet12.txt
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: UK Insurance Ground Cover |
Personally I would never use Jennings again following an unsavoury run in with
them over a ground risks policy for my glider. Remember cheap can also mean
nasty - and that's exactly what I found them to be...
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
| Subject: | p and light inverter |
Dave the B said Inverters were heavy, decode this for a cheap
and cheerful 12V-24V 12W boost regulator which will happily
drive older (and cheaper) second hand turn co-ordinators etc.
as well as attach to the backside of the instrument.
If anyone wants specific info, parts spec etc. then please mail me.
Include: 24V.GIF
Graham Laucht
Birmingham UK
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M4`*3#.@FT`)7S1HN4`--B| Date: | Nov 27, 1995 |
| From: | Jeff Bures <buresj(at)gate.net> |
Greetings everyone from across the pond!
I live just down the road from Europa'a US office, and am about to put my
deposit on a Europa! I can't wait!! I wonder if my excitement will last
though the whole project.
I'm new to the mail list, and I'm sure some of my questions have already
been discussed. I'll search the archive before I bother everyone with
technical questions.
This will be my first time building, and I'm concerned and a little scared
of the whole process. I have a good friend who is going to help me, and
we're both engineers (is that bad?), so I hope we won't have too much
trouble. I'm planning on working on the kit in the evenings and on
weekends. I don't yet have a family to get upset with me, so I should be
able to dedicate a fair amount of time towards it, maybe 20 hrs a week. I
know it's supposed to be 500-600 hrs for construction, but when might I
realistically expect to be flying? Also, what has been the hardest part and
the most technical part?
I won't be in a rush to complete each stage, since I will be saving money
for the next one at the same time.
Good flying, er.. building!
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Across the pond.. |
> I
>know it's supposed to be 500-600 hrs for construction
Jeff - Sorry, but from what I've seen I think that figure doesn't include
all the time that most people are going to spend sanding & finishing
.......
cheers
Rowland
(who's now the Europa Club Membership Secretary - I'll get all the online
references fixed shortly so Kath & Ron can stop forwarding stuff)
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Geof Bures, welcome to the tribe.
>>when might I realistically expect to be flying?<<
If you want a show plane 1500 to 2000 hours. Keep going back to Lakeland and
have a look at the finished airplane, could save you a lot of headscratching
time. Don't forget that EZ builders have a lot to teach too. A 20 year learning
curve is valuable.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa Flyer Contributions |
Hello Everyone
I am intending to put together a 'Net News' article for the next Europa Flyer
Magazine. Anyone who has read my previous attempts at semi coherent rambling
would be justified in suggesting that they have been far more to do with
computing than Europas and aviation. Well, to put this right I would like to put
forward the fruits of the labour that has gone into the Europa List, rather than
just writing more about the technology.
To do this I need your help. Whilst I feel quite at home rambling about bits and
bytes I'm no where near as confident (or qualified) spouting forth about the
Europa. So, to help me put together the 'Net News' article I would like to ask
you all to send me your favorite snippet of information that you have picked up
over the last three months from the list. This could be a really good tip, your
most enjoyable message or any anecdote that raised a smile ! From your replies
I
will compile an 'Internet Top Ten' and send them off to the David Duffton.
Please take time to quickly scan through your archive of favorites, a quick cut
and paste is all that it takes. So, I will brace myself for 146 replies shall I
?
Anyone who is a member of the Europa Club (that means all of you right ?) will
receive a copy of the Flyer as soon as it gets published, I think at the end of
next month. It can only be as good as the quality (and quantity) of the
contributions so, come on send those articles off to David and send your
favorite messages to me.
Best Wishes
Pete Thomas
# 191
100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
After talking about it, writing about it, taking pictures of it, thinking
about it and dreaming about it, we've gone and done it! Yup Flyer magazine
(Well Miles and I), are going to build one, kit number 251...the tailplane
kit should arrive real soon now....needless to say to justify the money and
time that'll be spent the build process will be covered in the magazine
over the next year.
At last I can read these messages and not feel like I'm ever so slightly an
imposter on the list
Have fun
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Has anyone tried Courtaulds (nee Desoto Titanine) FR80 epoxy primer filler? and
if so, what was your experience with it?
Regards, no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | r Guidance for Europas |
During the contouring, filling and sanding bit (oh no not that topic again!) a
powerful light shone along the surface being worked on can be useful in
revealing the high/low spots.
It helps if the light used is concentrated into a beam.
In this respect, has anyone tried using a laser beam, eg one of those relatively
cheap laser pointers available for presentations etc.? The straightness and
colour of the light may be more effective. I expect that subdued background
lighting would also be needed.
Anyone tried it?
Regards, no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
Can anyone help?
I have got to the painting stage (wings & tail) on kit No. 40, and am
looking for an IBM compatible program to help me design the colour scheme.
I have heard a rumour that there is some American software that has been
designed specifically for doodling with different layouts, but I canna' find it.
Also, are there any noenoes with colours?
Diolch,
Bill
Bill Wynne Europa 40 bill(at)wynne.co.uk tel: +44 (0)
1654,710101/2/3
Located N52 36.72 W04 04.53. Talybont Farm, Tywyn. Gwynedd
LL36 9LG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to Ian Seager
Welcome to the tribe Ian! Since you've had a real good Flyer at it you know it's
worth the effort!
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Has anyone yet tackled the issue of cowling fasteners ie replacing at least the
top fasteners with Camlocks or similar?
Such modification will need factory/PFA approval of course and it may be that
the idea has been thought about and vetoed on stress grounds.
However, if anyone has tried this route and been successful, what is the
solution? and can we have less fasteners?
Also, which type and which metal (gun-metal, steel or light alloy)?
Regards, no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to build an inexpensive oven for curing
the wings, etc...
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Laser Guidance for Europas |
Phillip -
you said:
> a
>powerful light shone along the surface being worked on can be useful in
>revealing the high/low spots.
> has anyone tried using a laser beam
I'd say - DON'T try it. I wouldn't shine even a very-low-power laser
towards my eyes if I could avoid it. I think it would be fairly ineffective
anyway, as you need a reasonable beam width and the whole point of the
laser is that it's a _very_ narrow beam. You'd only illuminate a line along
the surface, instead of an area of the surface - and even to do that, you'd
need the beam to be virtually parallel to the surface.
An old theatrical or photographic spotlight would be much more useful, as
those often have good methods of beam control.
cheers
Rowland
(Europa Club Membership Sec, but not a builder yet!)
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
| Subject: | Re: Colour Scheme |
It's a bit like Henry Ford said, any colour you like so long as it looks
fairly whitelike.
Just avoid anything that's going to allow the structure to absorb heat and
be careful about introducing any long stripes running spanwise across the wings,
certainly in the first 50% of the chord. An even tiny paint step here could ruin
the wing's performance and may increase the stall speed.
Suggest you try taking a scan from the brochure pics and doodling in Coreldraw
as a simple way of trying out some ideas. They almost give version 3 away these
days and most schools have it.
If you can get the scaling right then a lot of the self adhesive decal makers
can work from the output files, check with them first but often HPGL files will
drive their ruby cutters to make either positive images or spray masks.
Great though for "personalised" registration letter, within the CAP of course!
Fine for two dimensional stuff but trying to do complex lines over a 3D form
needs something a bit more sophisticated like Autocad's solid modelling
software. If you can drive Autocad's 3DStudio then you can make great
walkarounds so you can see exactly what it would look like and even set it
against your favourite airstrip.
--
Graham Edward Laucht
Birmingham UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
In reply to Bill and Graham on colour schemes......
I was talking to Graham (G-EMIN), our resident flight sim expert just last
weekend on this subject. I recently bought a package called Flight Shop that
allows you to create custom aircraft for MS Flight Sim (5.x). Now I'm not saying
in any way that this is a substitute for a professional CAD package, but it
might be a good (cheap) compromise between a desk top paint package and top of
the range software. However once you are happy with your aircraft you can then
go and 'fly' it ! Something even CAD packages can't do.
The package allows you to build a wire frame model of your design (sorry Ivan's)
and then generate a solid model in any colour scheme you like. The down side is
of course the effort required to input the many hundreds if x,y,z co-ordinates
required to get an accurate representation of the aircraft. Ideally if the
factory were willing to release the co-ordinates, it would make life a great
deal easier.
I haven't tried to use the software yet but Graham (G-EMIN) has. The input
interface apparently leaves a lot to be desired, but looking at the sample
designs I think the effort would be well worth it.
As I have said the hard bit is inputting your data in the first place. Now,
subject to getting the factories co-operation, we could take a divide and
conquer approach. The software builds aircraft in stages (sound familiar ?) from
subassemblies. If three or four of us got together, each taking on a different
subassembly e.g. a wing, an elevator the rudder, the canopy and the fuzz ! etc.
I think it would be achievable.
MS flight sim 5 is a great fun piece of software to have anyway. If you could
fly around in your own Europa, painted exactly as you want it to be, I think it
could make it even better.
Seriously though folks, remember Pete Kember's rainbow at Cranfield. Apparently
he was not a happy man when it came back from the paint shop. Even a crude
bitmap screen shot could have avoided that misunderstanding of the
specification.
Best Wishes
Pete Thomas
#191
100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Colour Scheme |
Coincidentally I have just been talking to Pete Thomas about this - there
is now Microsoft's "Flight Shop" which has 3-D modelling of planes,
intended for the the Simulator so they're flyable too. The flying model
is too crude probably to mimic Europa handling but it should be just fine
for paint schemes. The CAD is primitive by Autocad standards (i.e. fixed
grid, no snap, and dimensions in decimal feet. I have started on a
program to input cooordinate data direct and once someone has made the
model no doubt it could be used by others for paint changes. Can't see
that there could be a copyright problem as it would add to Flight Shop
sales, but perhaps any lawyers in the audience would advise.
Graham Clarke (gemin, no.83)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
>Reply to Ian Seager
>
>Welcome to the tribe Ian! Since you've had a real good Flyer at it you know
>it's
>worth the effort!
>
>Graham
>
I can't wait, the first kit arrives Tuesday...
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
Whilst thumbing through the fuselage manual I glanced at the fin mounted
antenna details. I don't know how these are performing in actuality but
the upper arm might be a bit sensitive to noise currents from any static
discharge from the upper fin edge.
It struck me also that if the antenna elements were bonded to the closeout
face then they would be close against the lossy polystyrene core which would
certainly damp the antenna. Bonded to the thin glass hinge mounting area would
be better in this respect.
Adding a second full length element in parallel to and joined to the extreme
ends of the dipole will turn it into a folded dipole which is inherently less
sensitive to noise and beneficially increases the bandwidth slightly.
Bandwidth is determined by the length/thickness ratio, so wide tapes work
better than thin wire.
The terminal impedance will rise to around 300 ohms but that can be dealt with
simply with a half wave coax balun instead of the ferrite balun. Tuning is
easily accomplished by moving the shorting links inwards or outwards equally
until the aerial is resonant at the geometric band centre.
Alternatively the feed point could be moved downwards so it becomes
a match to 50 ohm coax, I have a magic formula somewhere to work out the
precise numbers. This would have the benefit that the coax can be led off
perpendicularly straight up the fuselage and be further removed from the
stabiliser torque tube and balancer. Because the half wave dipole centre
point is some way up the fin the coax feed will have to run close to the lower
element which is detuning. Ideally it should leave perpendicular to the antenna
for least disturbance of the far field pattern and least excitation of surface
wave currents on the outer braid.
Finally it is unlikely that tuning the antenna with a Standing Wave meter will
be that meaningful. Aircraft band transmitters have wide bandwidth tuned output
stages which often means that they don't look much like a pure 50 ohm source
even at centre frequency. Also if they are that badly mismatched then their
internal protection circuit will shut down the power level again shifting the
output impedance. This is why a low VSWR reading can be obtained and the aerial
can remain off resonance. The net result is the transmit power output remains
low and the receive signal level is attenuated. You can dead short coax and by
choosing the right point to measure VSWR still obtain 1:1, move it a half wave
along and it will should show infinity.
Tuning is better accomplished by measuring the field strength with a separate
test antenna and diode detector. Alternatively insert a 50 ohm non reactive
resistor between the fin antenna terminals and measure the received field
strength with a diode detector excited by an second external generator
transmitting into an antenna located a couple of wavelengths away. (An Icom
handheld for instance) By moving the second antenna up or down with respect to
the fin antenna centreline a fair measure of directivity can be estimated.
Ideally the fin antenna should show a slight downward tilt in it's radiation
pattern somethimg which can be achieved by off centre feeding or with an
inverted 1/4 wave monopole and groundplane.
Either way is a acceptable because all passive antennas are reciprocal.
--
Graham Edward Laucht
Birmingham UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Henderson" <103237.3434(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi everyone,
I'm Bill Henderson (kit #A010) located in Stone Mountain, Georgia, a suburb of
Atlanta ( and home to the 1996 Olympics!!!!). Last April I went to Sun "n Fun in
Florida specifically to see the Europa ( I had already made up my mind it was
the kit I wanted) I never dreamed though that I would be building one now.
I presently have my tail completed (except for filling), about a third of the
way through my wing, and just got the fuselage kit a couple of weeks ago. It's
been interesting for someone who had no prior composite experience.
There are presently four of us that I know of here in the Atlanta area building
the Europa. We are all on the phone weekly with each other exchanging ideas and
answering each other's questions (since it's not all in the manuals).
I've been reading the Email for a while and it's interesting hearing from those
of you nearing completion of your kits. Please keep the helpful suggestion
comming. It's nice not to have to reinvent the wheel if someone has already
done it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | grantdes(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (John Grant) |
Ref ovens for wings.
I used an electric overblanket sandwiched between wing surface and outer
foam blocks.
The blanket covered approx. one third of wing so proces took a few days.
See my article in last newsletter for details.
Warning! essential to use buried temp. sensors and carefully monitor at
regular intervals. also support thin close out edges to prevent curving inwards.
Regards,
John Grant. (55)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to Graham Edward Laucht
Your remarks re antennae are fascinating. In my experience 1/2 wave dipoles work
well in plastic aeroplanes, I/ve fitted several and all work well. I could
recieve London Volmet from west abeam of Paris at 5000 ft. I always checked them
with a VSWR meter not knowing about the auto tuning capabilities of the
transmitter. Did get very variable results ratio wise, I must admit but never
worse than 2.5 :1. It would seem that the benefits of the flatter radiation
pattern of the dipole does help. It would be nice to try an antenna that was
really optimised as you describe.
Now, I have a question, Alan Hall showed me his transponder antenna, which was
a
1/2 wave dipole on the fuselage side. Is there any health risk from the
radiation emmitted by TXponders?
Graham, in sipping single malt whisky mode, (birthday yesterday, and someone
real kind gave me a bottle of Singleton's. :-) No relation, sadly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
The NSI package for the Europa has 118 hp and I believe that it is an EA-81
engine. Many other EA-81 engines advertise only 100 hp. What is the
difference? How are the test flights going on the AD Europa?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser Guidance for Europas |
Thanks for your reply to my query about laser pointers.
I can understand the logic of your reply, but was hoping to hear from someone
who had actually tried it and knew of the result; often you never know until
you`ve tried it!
Of course I wasn`t actually proposing to stare into the device (which is a Class
1 device and "...safe under all viewing conditions...").
Regards, no. 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
For curing the " etcs " referred to in your posting, the following I have found
to be workable for small items (tailplanes, fin etc):
Make a `haybox` in the following build sequence:
one double bed, double electric blanket, a number of straight battens (to allow
air circulation), the part to be cured laid on its bottom foam jig block, dust
sheet or two, duvet, another electric blanket, another duvet/eiderdown/blankets
or whatever you have.
Switch on and wait!
The old dust sheets should stop the vapours which come off during the cure from
staining the overlying bedding; but wash before reuse for the originally
designed purpose!
It is important to have a good thermal buffer between the laminate and the
locally hot wires of the electric blanket.
A feedback system is needed, eg digital thermometer with its probe buried in the
pile.
In practice the whole lot takes hours to come up to curing temperature, but this
can be an advantage as it reduces the chances for deformation; I have
(deliberately) been up to 64 deg. C without problems using the system. Best to
allow slow cooling too from elevated temps.
Regards, No. 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
| Subject: | sponder Health Risk |
Graham S,
There isn't a proven health risk from the radiation from a transponder antenna
but there is also a lot of concerned research. Now the qualifier, all none
ionising radiation causes some gentle joggling of water molecules within the
body and will cause some local heating. For the extent and result you would have
to ask a medical expert, except to say there is frequency dependancy and of
course power dependancy as well as the period of exposure etc. I know of
research which attempts to show a link between eye cataracts and hand held
cellphones. So treating RF with caution irrespective of power level and
frequency is perhaps a good starting point.
The RF level from the transponder is actually tiny although they may be quoted
as having typical output powers of 150 watts or more the duty cycle is only a
few percent, so low in fact it will hardly warm a 50ohm dummy load. Of course
the duty also varies with interrogation rate.
Reasonably though you should never take risks and positioning the antenna on
a ground plane (1/4 wave monopole) helps in this respect in providing some self
shielding, something that comes for free with a tin plane. At minimum a 140mm
diameter disc bonded to the inner skin but larger will not impair performance.
As far as the half wave dipole you refer to, the ARINC specs on antennas show
implied preference to a monopole so that there is a slight downwards tilt to the
field which is probably why the vast majority of commercial antennae are in
fact monopoles even though they may be dressed up in a streamlined blade to
confuse the issue.
This is mainly to ensure the main lobe points towards the near horizon where
the Secondary head is more likely to be located than wasting energy that
will otherwise travel spacewards above the horizon. The ARINC specs deal very
specifically with MTLs (Minimum Triggering Levels) for all modes of operation,
more especially for Mode S, and some of these levels may not be as achievable
with other antenna patterns. Ensuring true omnidirectional field patterns with
dipoles that are not in free space is fraught with problems especially at higher
frequencies.
The drag associated with a half wave will in theory be at least twice that for
a monopole, something which the Europa's design sets out to minimise from the
outset.
--
Graham Edward Laucht
Birmingham UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to Larry Boggs
>>The NSI package for the Europa has 118 hp and I believe that it is an EA-81
engine.<<
That's right. NSI offer various states of tune including 100 hp. The next Subaru
Europa to fly should be Dave Dufton in a week or three with an NSI 100 hp.
The testing has been going well, I understand. They are changing the gear ratio
to better optimise the prop. Most of NSIs Subarus are flying in Kitfoxes etc
with large built in headwinds so tuning the prop to the speeds is a bit of a
learning curve. I haven't checked the figures yet but my guess is that the twist
on the prop may also be too little for the higher cruise speeds. Regardless of
average pitch the twist is only ideal for one speed and Warp Drives are mostly
used on low and slow aeroplanes. Until now, that is.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser Guidance for Europas |
Reply to Phillip Alexander
I don't think a laser would be much help. The important lines on an aeroplane
are all curved. Absolute straightness is only important to the extent that it
looks right. With the exception of hinge lines, of course. There it would be
useful.
The most difficult part in finishing is achieving minimum waviness chordwise. A
figure of less than .003" per two inches is about right. Checked with a feeler
gauge and a steel rule pressed down with finger and thumb 2" apart. Slow
business.
I suggest three rules of thumb:
1 USe a long evenly flexible springy sanding board, 1/4 " ply or similar.
2 Don't press on any harder than necessary to bend the sander to the shape of
the wing. Too hard distorts the skin.
3 Never ever use a rigid flat board, you will just put flats on the curve.
A powerful linear flood light held low down might show up waviness or bumps. Low
evening sun certainly makes things easier.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | sponder Health Risk |
Graham Edward Laucht
Thanks Graham,
I think we'll go for the monopole TXponder antenna and try not to knock it off.
My experience with them is that the range is limited if you mount them inside
the structure so it will have to go on the bottom.
Aircraft Spruce are selling a very strange Comm antenna for composite aircraft.
It is made from thin Al sheet, roughly 30" by 12" looks like a very folded
dipole capacitance coupled. VSWR varied from 1.2 :1 to 3 : 1 over the frequency
span. Jon Tye will perhaps tell us if it works well. I suspect he will say knowt
if it doesn't. It wasn't cheap.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello everyone
The November archive has now been converted into web pages and is available to
browse at :-
http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa
124 messages were exchanged between the 150+ users of the Europa List during
November.
However, as only 1 person responded to my request for contributions towards a
'Net News' feature for the Europa Flyer, there will be no Internet article in
the next issue of the magazine.
Best Wishes
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
Fascinating insight into alternative aerials following your thumbing through the
fuselage manual!
You tantalisingly mention the existance of some magic dimensions but don`t
actually say what these are.
Please enlighten us!
Regards, no. 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Park <101363.3552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | rs invited for Europa No.106 |
Dear all,
Offers are reluctantly invited for Europa project No.106.
The wings and tail will be completed by early January, including sanding and filling.
Over 100 hours work has been done on the fuselage and panel.
A custom made fibre-glass fuel tank is included, that has larger capacity and better
fittings than the factory's current model.
Most flight instruments are also available, including a remote sensing compass
with power supply and a brand new Lynx radio/intercom system.
A brand new Rotax 912, with slipper clutch, and the four engine instruments supplied
by the factory are also included.
Although we still want a Europa, we have so far been unable to recruit the further
syndicate member needed to help complete the project.
If you are genuinely interested in making an offer for this project before it is
advertised in the magazines, please contact me for more details.
Best wishes, Graeme Park (No.106).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
>
>Aircraft Spruce are selling a very strange Comm antenna for composite aircraft.
>It is made from thin Al sheet, roughly 30" by 12" looks like a very folded
>dipole capacitance coupled. VSWR varied from 1.2 :1 to 3 : 1 over the frequency
>span. Jon Tye will perhaps tell us if it works well. I suspect he will say knowt
>if it doesn't. It wasn't cheap. Graham
>
I believe the Aircraft Spruce antennae for composites are Bob Archer
designs. This is part of a reply he made to me a while back when we
were thinking about our VOR antenna in the wing:
> I am somewhat familiar with the Europa. I read the article in
> Kitplanes and immediately fired off a letter to the kit manufaturer
>and I received exactly the same response I have received from every
>kit manufacturer I have written to. Silence. I guess they have more
>important things to worry about than antennas.
>
>I am preparing to send you a package containing a brochure on my
> line of antennas for composite aircraft along with the articles I
>wrote for the Lancair newsletter. I recommend installing the COM
>antenna in the vertical stabilizer if it is not sealed yet else on
>the inside surface of the tailcone. Likewise if the wings are not
>sealed the outer wing panels are a good location for the VOR
>antennas else the fuselage top. The articles have a lot more detail
>on these subjects.
>
>All my antennas except the transponder antenna are fabricated from
>.016 2024 Alclad aluminum sheet and fed with a modified Gamma
>match. I recently had a chance to check out an antenna that has
>been installed in a T-18 for over twenty years and it looked like
>new. The transponder antenna is etched from copper clad epoxy
>circuit board material with the active elements on opposite sides
>and fed with a tapered balun. Because of their design with
>multiple parameters all my antenna designs are tuned to a level of
>performance beyond that normally available today. I have recently
>heard from some of my customers that have made direct comparisons
>of my antennas with my competitors. LOve those direct comparisons.
>
>If you are technical data orieted I could send you some copies of
>the VSWR data I have on my products.
Bob Archer could (probably still can) be contacted at
74301.1655(at)compuserve.com
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
I will dig through archives (one of a number of large piles of paper on the
floor) to find my notes and post them with some sort of ascii diagram or maybe
FTP a drawing onto Avnet.
May take a couple of days, work pile of paper has grown on desk
--
Graham Edward Laucht
Birmingham UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Eaves" <David_Eaves(at)eurogw1.mentorg.com> |
| Subject: | pa Builders Video |
Subject: Time: 2:57 am
OFFICE MEMO Europa Builders Video Date: 8/12/95
Dear Europa Builders,
Let me introduce myself. My name is David Eaves, and I am producing a video.
Currently we are in the final stages of shooting the first of what is
intended to be a series of videos titled "Build The Europa". It is aimed at
people who are building a Europa, thinking about building Europa, or just
interested in the Europa. This first video has been taped over a 12 month
period and covers the progress of Europa No 147 (Nigel Graham)
The first video is called "Getting Started". The main topics covered are an
introduction to the constructors workshop/environment, chemicals/materials
used, basic introduction to the lamination process with regard to wing
surfaces, and metal work preparation and anodizing. The planned availability
for this first tape will be early 1996.
It is anticipated that the running times for each video will be between 45
mins to 1 hour. A guide price will be approxamitly #163#15 plus P+P.
International TV formats will be available if demand requires.
If you feel this may be of interest to you please feel free to contact me at.
3 Rosebay Cresent, Grove, Wantage. OXON. OX12 OBU.
Thank You
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Eaves" <David_Eaves(at)eurogw1.mentorg.com> |
| Subject: | Europa Builders Video ( |
Subject: Time: 2:57 am
OFFICE MEMO FWD>Europa Builders Video (Take 2) Date: 8/12/95
This is take two ( some text got scrambled)
Date: 8/12/95 4:38 am
From: David Eaves
Dear Europa Builders,
Let me introduce myself. My name is David Eaves, and I am producing a video.
Currently we are in the final stages of shooting the first of what is
intended to be a series of videos titled "Build The Europa". It is aimed at
people who are building a Europa, thinking about building Europa, or just
interested in the Europa. This first video has been taped over a 12 month
period and covers the progress of Europa No 147 (Nigel Graham)
The first video is called "Getting Started". The main topics covered are an
introduction to the constructors workshop/environment, chemicals/materials
used, basic introduction to the lamination process with regard to wing
surfaces, and metal work preparation and anodizing. The planned availability
for this first tape will be early 1996.
It is anticipated that the running times for each video will be between 45
mins to 1 hour. A guide price will be approxamitly #163#15 (Fifteen pounds)
plus P+P. International TV formats will be available if demand requires.
If you feel this may be of interest to you please feel free to contact me at.
3 Rosebay Cresent, Grove, Wantage. OXON. OX12 OBU.
Thank You
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Builders Video |
> Subject: Time: 2:57 am
> OFFICE MEMO Europa Builders Video Date: 8/12/95
>
>Dear Europa Builders,
>
>Let me introduce myself. My name is David Eaves, and I am producing a video.
>Currently we are in the final stages of shooting the first of what is
>intended to be a series of videos titled "Build The Europa". It is aimed at
>people who are building a Europa, thinking about building Europa, or just
>interested in the Europa. This first video has been taped over a 12 month
>period and covers the progress of Europa No 147 (Nigel Graham)
>
>The first video is called "Getting Started". The main topics covered are an
>introduction to the constructors workshop/environment, chemicals/materials
>used, basic introduction to the lamination process with regard to wing
>surfaces, and metal work preparation and anodizing. The planned availability
>for this first tape will be early 1996.
>
>It is anticipated that the running times for each video will be between 45
>mins to 1 hour. A guide price will be approxamitly #163#15 plus P+P.
>International TV formats will be available if demand requires.
>
>If you feel this may be of interest to you please feel free to contact me at.
>
>
>3 Rosebay Cresent, Grove, Wantage. OXON. OX12 OBU.
>
>
>Thank You
>
When the video is complete could you send us a review copy?
Thanks in advance
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
Hints and Tips
Some more hints that I have found very useful ...
Those fiddly closeouts:
I found firstly with the tailplane tab close-outs and subsequently the aileron
closeouts (which are even more difficult than the tab ones because they are
deeper) that it was difficult to get a knife in to remove the foam in order to
expose the skin prior to the close-out layups.
A very useful tool which you can easily make up is to stick onto the end of a
3/8 in. dowel a scalpel blade (a No.26 is the largest straight one I could find)
obtained from a hobby shop or chemists in the U.K or a veterinarian in the U.S,
(Note: In the latter case you will need proof of identity, a letter stating what
you are going to use it for, and a third party witness!). Use 5 min. epoxy with
a bit of flox added. Once set sand down the flox until you are almost though to
the blade. The result is the ability to run a blade flush with the remaining
closeout and hence minimum mess and hassle. The strip of foam will just come
away once the more traditional utility knife has loosened up the peel ply/skin
side.
Tailplane Pip-pin Holes:
This first appeared in The Europa Flyer magazine and might be now included in
the basic instructions but it is worth repeating here in case it hasn't.
Rather than having ugly exposed holes in the tailplanes into which the pip-pins
are housed (together with any water that might ingress there) a 1 in. diameter
hole should be cut in the tailplane skin centred where the pin-pins will go.
Form a tapered hole right down to TP6 using a hot wire. Ensure the hole is wide
enough to accommodate not only the pip-pin but also the 2 plies of bid which
should be used to line the hole as per the manual.
Cut a 20 mm long piece of 22 mm diameter plastic pipe (from the local D.I.Y
store in the plumming section) and also a piece about 1-2 mm long. Cut a small
section from the circumference of the small piece so that it fits inside the 20
mm piece. Bond this in place flush with one end using 'solvent weld' to form a
flange.
Sand the flange end until a 3/4 inch blind rubber grommet (available from an
electrical component shop or car/motorbike spares shop) will fit neatly in the
flange.
Remove the grommet and bond the assembly into the lined hole using flox so that
the flanged end is flush with the top skin.
The grommet will fit perfectly and after final painting of the tailplanes (not
before) a smear of silicone grease will give a watertight seal. If you have
large fingers a simple hooked tool can be used for removing the pip-pin.
A really 'neat' idea!
Any more hints and tips out there which could be shared on the Europa forum?
Regards
Martin J K Tuck
Builder #152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmyers(at)sd.inri.com (John Myers) |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Builders Video |
Dave,
I am becoming very interested in building the Europa. I have an info
package and the factory video. My main interest in building the Europa is
to build it as a motor glider when (and if) the glider wings become
available. At that point I would be interested in the videos you are
producing. Appoximately how much in US$ (VHS format) will they be?
John Myers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Force Colour Moving Map |
This should really be addressed to Graham Edward Laucht, but I guess his answer
will be of interest to all. Anyway, hello Graham. I'm at the really sticky stage
of cutting holes in my panel. The problem is, I can't decide on the cut out
position for my com and transponder unless I have details of the mounting tray
dimensions for the map. Do you know if these are finalised and what they are?
Thanks in advance,
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk (Graham Edward Laucht) |
| Subject: | Re: Sky Force Colour Moving Map |
Rolph,
I will get shot for releasing this sort of information but here goes.
The colour SkyMap CM2000 will need an aperture cut in the panel which is
6.25"W x 4"H (Sorry aircraft stuff is still good old inches). In order to
mount the rack unit some provision is needed to mount to either a pair of
L section brackets bonded or rivetted to the panel rear face on each side or
some side structure. You will have probably introduced something to mount the
radio/txponder chassis which will suffice.
Each bracket needs two holes 13.00mm from the front panel face at 65.00mm
centres equispaced about the centreline to take M3 or equivalent countersunk
head screws.
There is a third hole on the centreline 106.5mm from the centrelines of the
65mm pair making three per side in total.
The mapper is retained in the rack mount with a screw accessed with an Allen
key from the front panel beneath the on/off/brightness knob.
Nasty ascii art follows:-
I I
+ --X +
I 13.0mm +0 -0.5 I
_PANEL____________I __X I_____________________
TOP SECTION
<--------- 6.25" +1/16" -0" --------->
______________________________________ __
I I X
I I |
+ --X + |
I I |
---C/L--- I 65.0mm centres +/-0.25 I 4" (4.5"*) ---C/L---
I I |
+ --X + |
I I |
I___________________________________ I _X
All corners 1.0mm radius
FRONT VIEW
I
I_____________________________________________________
I
X---- ->0<--3.25 DIA I
| I
| I
C/L---65.00mm-------------------------------- 0 I
+/-0.25 I
| I
X---- 0 <--3 holes per side (2 minimum) I
I
------------------------------------------------------
I
I
--> <--13.00 +0 -0.25
<------106.50 +/-0.25-------->
<------------------190mm total depth------------------>
Allows for cables, harness and connecters
SIDE SECTION
*Now for those that don't quite have the pennies leaving 4.5" will make room
for something due very soon. The four side at holes at 13mm increase to around
25mm.
For those in the market save your Christmas pennies for a few weeks, it may
just be worth the wait*
Both will take a 10-30V DC supply or in the case of the mystery, self powered
as well. Plan on cutting a small aperture approx 60mm x 60mm through the inner
skin and foam of the roof section between the clamshell doors for the antenna
or a round hole approx 16mm diameter plus two or three small holes somewhere
aft of the baggage bay bulkhead for an external mount. These numbers are
approximate at the moment so don't hack at the hardware just yet.
Sorry I cannot come clean yet as I am bound to secrecy. Good weather permitting
I might be seen at Popham with ** at the New Year's Day Bangers 'n Beans do.
--
Graham Edward Laucht
Birmingham UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | er pedal crank conflicts |
There are two possible conflicts builders should be aware off before
"freezing in" the rudder pedal mountings and floor panels.
1) the stainless steel firewall mod. seems to have been designed as if it
the cranks were not there, as they pass through the plane of the
suggested design. To clear them, large unfillable holes are needed thus
defeating the object of a firewall. There seems to be no reason why a
one-piece plate(with just a bend at top and bottom) should not be fitted
in the plane of the vertical members of the landing gear frame (just in
front of the bungee cord) where there is no conflict. The only holes
needed are for the lugs and cables. It has to be divided at the middle,
of course to get it in , as with the upper two plates of the supplied
design.
2) This applies to the Rotax 912 engine. The rudder cranks must clear
adequately and certainly not penetrate the following space:
Centred on the lower lugs, extend a cone with starting diameter 1 3/4"
forward for 3/4" to a diameter of 2". (This takes you to the lugs of the
engine frame). The 3/4" dimension will decrease somewhat when the rubbers
are compressed. There is precious little room here (if any) and it is
pretty disastrous if you have to remove the floors. You might get some
alleviation by just shimming the base of the tufnol pedal bearings to
move the pedals upwards, and other gymnastics, like using smaller
washers, shorter sleeves, smaller thimbles and filing bolt heads etc. on
the cable attachment.
Graham Clarke G-EMIN No.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | Re: Hints and Tips |
>Hints and Tips
>
>Some more hints that I have found very useful ...
>
>Those fiddly closeouts:
>
>I found firstly with the tailplane tab close-outs and subsequently the aileron
>closeouts (which are even more difficult than the tab ones because they are
>deeper) that it was difficult to get a knife in to remove the foam in order to
>expose the skin prior to the close-out layups.
>
>A very useful tool which you can easily make up is to stick onto the end of a
>3/8 in. dowel a scalpel blade (a No.26 is the largest straight one I could
>find)
>obtained from a hobby shop or chemists in the U.K or a veterinarian in the U.S,
>(Note: In the latter case you will need proof of identity, a letter stating
>what
>you are going to use it for, and a third party witness!). Use 5 min. epoxy with
>a bit of flox added. Once set sand down the flox until you are almost though to
>the blade. The result is the ability to run a blade flush with the remaining
>closeout and hence minimum mess and hassle. The strip of foam will just come
>away once the more traditional utility knife has loosened up the peel ply/skin
>side.
>
>Tailplane Pip-pin Holes:
>
>This first appeared in The Europa Flyer magazine and might be now included in
>the basic instructions but it is worth repeating here in case it hasn't.
>
>Rather than having ugly exposed holes in the tailplanes into which the pip-pins
>are housed (together with any water that might ingress there) a 1 in. diameter
>hole should be cut in the tailplane skin centred where the pin-pins will go.
>Form a tapered hole right down to TP6 using a hot wire. Ensure the hole is wide
>enough to accommodate not only the pip-pin but also the 2 plies of bid which
>should be used to line the hole as per the manual.
>
>Cut a 20 mm long piece of 22 mm diameter plastic pipe (from the local D.I.Y
>store in the plumming section) and also a piece about 1-2 mm long. Cut a small
>section from the circumference of the small piece so that it fits inside the 20
>mm piece. Bond this in place flush with one end using 'solvent weld' to form a
>flange.
>Sand the flange end until a 3/4 inch blind rubber grommet (available from an
>electrical component shop or car/motorbike spares shop) will fit neatly in the
>flange.
>
>Remove the grommet and bond the assembly into the lined hole using flox so that
>the flanged end is flush with the top skin.
>
>The grommet will fit perfectly and after final painting of the tailplanes (not
>before) a smear of silicone grease will give a watertight seal. If you have
>large fingers a simple hooked tool can be used for removing the pip-pin.
>
>A really 'neat' idea!
>
>Any more hints and tips out there which could be shared on the Europa forum?
>
>Regards
>
>Martin J K Tuck
>Builder #152
>Wichita, Kansas
>U.S.A
>
Thanks Martin...the only thing that I have done so far is to check the bits
of the tailplane kit out of the box...so there's a while to go yet. Before
I read your posting I was thinking along similar lines, and being lazy
thought that I'd pose the following question to all the builders on the
list...
"Could you think of a 5 point list (more if you like) under the title of
Things I wish I'd known/done before before starting my Europa"
To be honest I'm trying to avoid any common mistakes, but it may also be
used as research material for a future FLYER (Not Europa Flyer) article.
Happy wetting out there
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | pa FTP site and Eurparts database. |
Peter Thomas has negotiated an FTP site for us via the Europa net.
Here are a) instructions for downloading files from it which you might
like to hard copy for reference.
The only files in it so far relate to a simple Europa parts database
which is described in an accompanying message.
How to Download files from the new Europa FTP site.
---------------------------------------------------
Step 1
------
Take any File Transfer Protocol (FTP) utility (there is one built into
WinCimfor CompuServe users).
Step 2
------
the address of the Europa FTP site is :-
ftp.avnet.co.uk
Step 3
------
The user id is :- anonymous
The password is :- (Your full e-mail address)
e.g 100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
The Europa files are held underneath the PUB directory in a directory
calledEuropa.
Step 4
------
Select the files you wish to retrieve and Bob's your Mother's Brother etc
Step 5
------
Disconnect properly.
Step 6
------
Send thank you card to Monu Ogbe of AVnet for setting up this facility on
hissystem .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | pa parts database |
Eurparts database. (Eurpart6) (see Europa FTP for downloading).
Having raised the subject of a parts database I felt duty bound to make
some small contribution, to see if such a thing has any use, and maybe to
provoke others into producing more grandiose schemes (a full index ?).
Eurpart6 uses data from the Europa parts manuals in my possession, which
are hopefully the same as those in the hands of other builders.
It has five fields covering part number, chapter and page number,
assembly and description.
It was constructed by typing in the part numbers with their page numbers,
then filling in the assembly field by association with the text, and
massaging the whole thing with a program which attached the descriptions.
The version uploaded has been sorted into part number order, which seems
to be the most useful, but it can of course be sorted other ways and
searched with suitable software.
The description field was generated from the rules tables at the front of
the Tail and Wing kit manuals. (These are not actually complete so the
A&S catalogue was used to complete it as far as possible).
The frequent use of nuts (like MS21042-3) and washers (like AN970-3)
made it rather pointless to enter all their instances, and they are not
complete.
It is unfortunate that Europa have not put fig. numbers on all the A3
sheets and where they have, they are frequently duplicated. So a zero in
the chapter and page number columns is to be interpreted as one of the A3
drawing sheets. Which one, can usually be divined from the assembly
column.
Nor is it possible from the manuals to calculate how many of a particular
part are used. This would need someone to accumulate information from the
individual delivery lists, most of mine having been long since discarded.
Although built originally in dbase format, it has been posted as an Excel
3.0 file (.xls) file, this having superior screen display capabilities.
To avoid having your laptop or computer in the workshop and thence
becoming covered in epoxy (like the telephone ?) it is probably best just
to print out your chosen sort(s), as each only occupies five pages. A
text version (Eurpart6.txt) has therefore been posted for those not
having suitable software. It seems that it is rather easy to lose the
columm alignment from the text version with some software. The shareware
LIST program can be recommended to avoid this and is has powerful search
facilities.
Best use seems to be for identifying parts which are lying about
separated from their identification (if they ever had any !). A useful
accessory is to make up a scale, associating all those n/32 lengths with
the appropriate AN suffix.
Graham Clarke No.83 G-EMIN.
with acknowledgement to Ted Gladstone No.15 (who came to the support of
the activity when I began to flag).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
How can the thin strip of fiberglass on the rudder and fin possibly hold the
rudder on? This is not an ultralight? But to my real question, is it ok to use
regular rivets instead of pop rivets. We have built an RV-6 and have become
very well acquainted with riveting (13 or 14 thousand later), and the
accompanying noise. We would be very disappointed if we couldn't squeeze a few
just for good measure.
Thanks,
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | er pedal crank conflicts |
To Graham Clarke
I agree with your remarks about the Stainless firewall; in fact fence might be
a
better word ;-) I decided not to bother struggling with the bits of bent tin and
moulded a two part phenolic/glass firewall. The top half is more or less flat
and fits behind the engine mount, over the shockcord etc. It can't be removed
without taking the engine out. The bottom half covers all the cross tubes rudder
cables etc. Only the two return springs poke through and they can be easily
covered with bent tin, or more mouldings when I can get a round twoit. Currently
I've used all of my stock of twoits :-(
The moulding does streamline the whole bottom outlet area, but unfortunately
also reduces the cross section. The problem is that our super efficient silencer
blocks up the hole. I have my cooling outlets (and radiators) where Europa put
those nice little gill outlets. One big Gills each side, in fact. Hopefully I
should be able to report very soon if it all works. There could be a stony
silence(g)
There is another pedal crank conflict to watch for. Make sure you can get full
movement without the outboard pedal, RHS, hitting the side of the footwell. Some
people have bent their cranks slightly to avoid hitting the engine mounts.
Graham 1tun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hints and Tips |
Hi Ian,
>>Things I wish I'd known/done before before starting my Europa"<<
Don't rely just on scuff sanding metal parts, particularly the tailplane bushes
TP6. I am telling everyone I inspect for to drill dimples into the outer
diameter of the tubes and maybe a few saw cuts as well, to give a positive
machanical key. Be careful not to distort the ID though or the torque tube won't
go in. Also be very generous with the depth of the flox corner. It isn't a lot
of use bonding the tube to the foam core, it isn't very strong compared to
Stainless steel. The TP6 has to be firmly bonded to the glass rib.
Any alloy parts which are bonded in should be anodised, preferably hard anodised
and dichromate sealed, which restores the fatigue strength. This will bond them
to epoxy much better than scuff sanding. Best way to clean before bonding is dye
penetrant solvent cleaner, carbon tet or tri chlor ethylene.
Remember that finger prints on anything to be bonded are bad news, so never
remove peel ply until the moment you're ready to bond.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>How can the thin strip of fiberglass on the rudder and fin possibly hold the
rudder on? <<
How can an even thinner strip of aluminum do it either? Never heard of a rudder
falling off a Long EZ or a Glasair, even at 250 kts.
Yes you can use solid rivets, but check that the head area is as big and squeeze
rather than hammer.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Sun, Dec 10, 1995 11:57 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Sun, Dec 10, 1995 1:59 PM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | olded wings and tail feathers |
Today, the best laminar flow wings for low Reynolds numbers are found on high
performance gliders. Up to 85% of the lower wing chord surface for example on
my Schleicher ASW-24 is in laminar flow. Turbulators are used to abruptly
change the flow to turbulent without creating laminar seperation bubbles.
Only sandwich-type wings built in very rigid molds can be made precise enough to
get these kinds of results. My question is how can the Europa wing claim a
decent laminar flow with a wing built on (more or less) precise styrofoam cores.
Why has Ivan not considered premolded wings and is that being planned at least
for the motorglider version?
Herbert Kilian, Raleigh, NC - USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Sun, Dec 10, 1995 7:56 PM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Ian,
<<"Could you think of a 5 point list (more if you like) under the title of>>
<>
Speaking as a first time builder with no previous aircraft experience prior to
starting the build 1 year ago.
I had no flying experience either (this has now been addressed, I now have a
mighty 30 hours!!)
Building an aeroplane just seemed like a good idea at the time .
1) Wish I'd known how much work was involved in aligning fuselage and flying
surfaces, measuring from one point in thin air to another is not easy, I'd build
some kind of jig to measure from next time.
2) Wish I'd known the tip about doing layup onto cling film and taking it to the
job, this is particularly relevant for the flying surface closeouts, much time
and frustration would have been saved.
3) If you are thinking of "improving" the basic aircraft by fitting full panel,
autopilot, leather trim, etc etc expect to double, or even triple the build
time, I have spent over 500 hours on panel alone. (looks good though!)
4) Don't fit the aileron quick connect bellcranks to the wing spar until the
fuselage top has been bonded on (see previous tip in this mailgroup). I followed
directions in the manual precisely and later found that one side had moved, this
gave me an extra 2 days work sorting it out.
5) To my eye the tinnerman washers holding cowling spoil the clean lines of the
airframe, I glued them into place with resin, then layed a 2 inch square layer
of bid over them, then contoured cowling with filler. It adds very little weight
but improves the looks considerably, with now just the painted csk boltheads
showing.
6) Expect things not to fit, IMHO much more time is spent making things look and
fit right than actually building. Invest in the right tools at the start of the
job, I've found digital protractor, air powered finger belt sander, air powered
angle drill, bench vice, pillar drill and electric D/A sander to be essentials
(not a tip, more an observation, so this one doesn't count!)
Best regards
Allan J Hall (G-Days, kit 177, 95% done, with 50% to go)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Sun, Dec 10, 1995 10:15 PM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Sun, Dec 10, 1995 10:15 PM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
1) You don't need an angled drill (or drill the fuselage as has been
suggested) to drill the damper frame mounting holes. A block of wood
clamped or wedged next to the hole position will stop the drill point
slipping and allow you to drill a half-size hole at an acute angle
through soft stuff like this. A rat-tail file will do the rest.
2) Use up some of the rivet pins which are lying all over the floor
threatening to puncture your tires. Space them off the inside of the
fuselage with blobs of 5 min epoxy each end. With cable ties (or velcro
strips) threaded behind them, you get easily expandable wiring attachment
points.
3) Probaby said before, but go out and buy some 3/16" UNF ordinary nuts
(if you still can), and the larger ones too, and don't use the dreaded
stiffnuts until you really finally need to. It must consume hundreds of
builders hours winding on stiffnuts, some in inaccessible places for
trial fits, only to have to wind them off again e.g. flap attachment,
landing gear, rudder pedals and so on.
4) For Uk builders, a 4BA spanner fits the prolific MS21042-3 nut, and a
3BA spanner fits the head of AN3-??. The MS21042-3 seems to be made
into a stiffnut by squashing it across one set of flats. Not good for
spanner fitting. Unfortunately you can't make it an un-stiffnut by
squashing the other flats!
Graham Clarke G-EMIN No.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal crank conflicts |
Yes, I forgot to mention bending the cranks - I doubt if you can do the
job at all without bending both outwards. They end up in line with the
front members of the landing gear frame which chops of some of the
extreme rearward movement which you might otherwise have, but one
shouldn't need it all with that gearing up to the rudder.
A simpler way of anticipating this conflict would have been for Europa to
publish the widest dimension of the engine mounting frame, so you don't
have to buy a Rotax before putting the rudder pedals to rest. (Its 9.5
inches, though it tapers a bit upwards). There is presumably a similar
measurement for the Subaru.
The simple rubbing blocks suggested to push the cable away from the frame
could generate a problem. If a cable goes slack, (e.g. someone catches
their foot under the pedal) it can go drop the block, and coming back up
it will snag on the bottom, generating assymetric rudder and also rub on
the frame again. Either they have to be made much deeper, or have a
retaining action like the ones that prevent the disc brake snagging. I
have pinned and reduxed an L-shaped bracket on the bottom to stop this.
Graham twoit (still one left).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Mon, Dec 11, 1995 12:19 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | olded wings and tail feathers |
To Herbert F Kilian
>>how can the Europa wing claim a decent laminar flow with a wing built on (more
or less) precise styrofoam cores.<<
Modern laminar flow sections are less critical than the old ones, the sailplanes
don't suffer quite so much in rain as they used to. Also the laminar flow is
more dependant on waviness than a really accurate profile.
Ivan expected to have to alter the wing design so opted for the flexibility of
a
Rutan construction.
In fact the section was designed for the mission by an experienced big jet
aerodynamicist. It does seem to work.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Mon, Dec 11, 1995 1:14 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Mon, Dec 11, 1995 1:14 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BPX LON SUN London Bridge" <bpx_lon_sun_london_bridge(at)txpcap.hou.xwh.bp.com> |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
On Server: BPX LON STP B Srv
Date: Mon, Dec 11, 1995 1:14 AM
Reason: Could not be delivered because the destination Microsoft Mail server
could not be found.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | & Stabilator tips |
We are discussing the idea of covering the wing tips in bid, and the rest of the
wing as detailed in the manual. Besides getting a smooth transition with the
fiberglass, is there any structural problem with this idea?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
What are the requirements for strobe lights for the Europa. Is it possible to
use fuselage mounted strobes on the top and bottom of the fuselage, or must tail
and wing tip lights be used?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing & Stabilator tips |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
>We are discussing the idea of covering the wing tips in bid, and the rest of the
>wing as detailed in the manual. Besides getting a smooth transition with the
>fiberglass, is there any structural problem with this idea?
>Larry Boggs
>
I must admit I thought they were supposed to be bid anyway. Manual
is in workshop so can't check this moment) There was a tip I read
somewhere (possibly in an early Europa Club mag) about doing them in
one shot rather than 2 and overlapping at the extreme tip which is
what I did and it worked fine. To protect against knocks just
interleave the layers with bits a couple of inches wide where they
will get knocked. I did it with the wings standing on end (my
workshop is high enough!) but I see no reason why it couldnt be
done on the bench too, though it would mean turning the wings over
a few times during the process.
Incidentally I did the wing root
closeouts also with the wings on end and it was really easy. We
also installed a bit of plastic conduit terminating near the L/E
part of the tip so we could cut away and install wingtip lights if
we ever wanted to.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
To Larry Boggs
>>Is it possible to use fuselage mounted strobes on the top and bottom of the
fuselage,<<
MOst people seem to be opting for a fin mounted strobe. No reason I can see why
you shouldn't put another one underneath the fuselage. The main consideration is
interference with the coms and GPS signals, so get it as far away as possible.
We put the Whelen power unit below the tail mass balance unit, 1/2 way to the
tail. We still get interference on a handheld. Haven't tested the KLX 135 yet.
Tomorrow, probably.
>>We are discussing the idea of covering the wing tips in bid,<<
The plans specify BID, so I'm not sure what the question is. You could use UNI
at 45 deg but there's not a lot of point. Structurally the only consideration is
mechanical damage, except for the torsion from the aileron hinge.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | olded wings and tail feathers |
>Modern laminar flow sections are less critical than the old ones, the
sailplanes
>don't suffer quite so much in rain as they used to. Also the laminar flow is
>more dependant on waviness than a really accurate profile.
>Ivan expected to have to alter the wing design so opted for the flexibility of
a
>Rutan construction.
>In fact the section was designed for the mission by an experienced big jet
>aerodynamicist. It does seem to work.
Graham,
Thanks for your response, I certainly agree that the Europa concept "seems to
work" as you put it. With all the lay-ups and required filling and sanding of
a
"Rutan Wing" it seems to be a valid question if a premolded wing might become an
option (super fast kit?) for the future. Many potential builders - I for sure
-
would be happy to consider it.
As you well know, all the recent successful American glass kits are offering
wings made in molds.
Regards
Herbert Kilian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
>>
With all the lay-ups and required filling and sanding of
"Rutan Wing" it seems to be a valid question if a premolded wing might become
an option (super fast kit?) for the future. Many potential builders - I for
sure - would be happy to consider it.
As you well know, all the recent successful American glass kits are offering
wings made in molds.
>>
Given the poularity of the Europa kit and the almost mind-boggling tedium of
surface finishing, I am surprised molded flying surfaces have not appeared as
an option. It's not as though removing the finishing steps would bring the build
time below the magical 500 hours (the minimum UK requirement for a plane to be
a
kit homebuild). The increased size and finishing problems of glider wings
surely puts the "Rutan" method beyond reasonable bounds?
I can't see myself ever having the patience to undertake what seems to be a
thoroughly unnecessary chore. Now with the option of molded surfaces that can be
built up from the outside in - as is 'normal' practice for manufacturers....
such a kit I could well contemplate seriously (providing the on-cost did not
make what is already not a cheap option into something completely
unaffordable).
BTW, for those particularly interested in the motor glider version, check out
the Windex kit from Sweden (see the PFA Homebuild Guide). I haven't any info
back from them yet but this single seater claims similar performance to the
existing Europa (cruise speed and rate of climb) on a
Konig 25 hp motor (mounted in the tail fin) and an L/D of 38 to 1. The
Europa MG version will, in comparison, have an L/D of 27 to 1 -
somewhat disappointing in view of the fact that the existing configuration has,
I believe, a 17 to 1 L/D. The main snag with the Windex is that it's a single
seater.
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | olded wings and tail feathers |
>>all the recent successful American glass kits are offering
wings made in molds.<<
I suspect most of them have wet wings. Berkut doesn't, or any of the Long Ez
developments. If you include all the copies, Long EZ must be the most successful
design of the lot. Europa looks like a success in the making too.
Seriously though, I don't think there is much less work in a premoulded wing
than a foam core one, it's just different kind of work. We reckon it takes about
one and a half days to fill and profile a wing to the stage of spraying primer.
I bet you would spend just as long on a premoulded wing. Ask any of the Glasair
and Lancair boys. Filling and profiling the leading edge is fiddly. As is
capping strips on all the ribs etc. Don't ask about chasing leaks in a wet wing!
(I've done it :-[ )
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing & Stabilator tips |
>>with the wings on end and it was really easy. <<
You could rig it with the fuselage vertical, resting on the firewall! That might
make some jobs easier too.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bures <buresj(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
>BTW, for those particularly interested in the motor glider version, check out
>the Windex kit from Sweden (see the PFA Homebuild Guide). I haven't any info
>back from them yet but this single seater claims similar performance to the
>existing Europa (cruise speed and rate of climb) on a
>Konig 25 hp motor (mounted in the tail fin) and an L/D of 38 to 1. The
>Europa MG version will, in comparison, have an L/D of 27 to 1 -
>somewhat disappointing in view of the fact that the existing configuration has,
>I believe, a 17 to 1 L/D. The main snag with the Windex is that it's a single
>seater.
BTW, the Windex was designed in Sarasota Fl, USA. The owner of the shop is
a member of our gliding club (inactive, though). He named the motor glider
after a weathervane type instrument that sailors put on their mast (also his
design). I'm not a sailor, so I don't know what it is......
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
>>>
I don't think there is much less work in a premoulded wing
than a foam core one, it's just different kind of work. We reckon it takes
about
one and a half days to fill and profile a wing to the stage of spraying primer.
I bet you would spend just as long on a premoulded wing. Ask any of the Glasair
and Lancair boys. Filling and profiling the leading edge is fiddly. As is
capping strips on all the ribs etc. Don't ask about chasing leaks in a wet
wing!
>>>
I find it difficult to accept the above! If working from the inside out was
the best way of doing things in glass then all commercial manufacturers surely
would be doing it that way - which we all know is not the case. The inside
out route avoids needing a mould which is an expensive item for small
production runs.
The glass glider maunfacturers start by spraying a gel coat into a mould, then
add the cloth then stick the halves together with the foam core and spar
inside. Finishing is restricted to the joins and the profile is virtually
perfect.
You might be able to get the basic shape right in 1.5 days - but what
about the rest of the finishing? My enquiries with a well known glass airframe
repairer (McLeans of Rufforth nr York) gave an estimate of 160 hours for wing
finishing - and they are professionals!
I can't believe there isn't a case for pre-moulded wings - at a sensible price.
Alan Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
>>I can't believe there isn't a case for pre-moulded wings - at a sensible
price.
Right on, Alan!
Let's get this discussion in high gear. I can't believe there is nobody besides
you, Graham and myself having an opinion on this subject. I have seen numerous
notes to this server ending with "Europa builder and sander..."
Sounds funny at first but then you start thinking if this is truly a part of
your project you would be looking forward to. Maybe Ivan needs to go visit the
German sailplane manufacturers to see how it's done. But then, I read that
Slingsby is building right next door some interesting fiberglass planes in
molds...
Regards
Herbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
I presume Bob Mclean's 160 hrs is for finishing glider wings? Even premoulded
ones take a long time to finish because there is always shrinkage and movement.
Most of the time needed to produce a perfact wing is in profiling the last
.010", in other words the primer and final coat of paint.
The point about premoulded hollow wings is that you can put fuel in them, but
there is a lot of internal work to do before you can close up the wing.
Ask the Glasair boys.
Either way it will take 1500 hrs minimum to finish an airplane like Europa, most
of which comes after the airframe is complete and filled. 2500 for a Glasair.
I've done it both ways.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | REIDDL(at)CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU |
| Subject: | blut some flyin' progress reports? |
Well, according to the messages here, there are a couple of Europas flying
their little hearts out. But either the owners are starting on #2, or are
just darned busy trying to get their test hours in to take them all over
Europe and can't get near the computer to type in a message on just how
things are going. Well, have at it, please. Those of us out here with
some various projects in various states of being done would really
like some encouragement that all the hard work is well worth it.
So, get the old portable out, and type a message on performance (real vs.
predicted) how the ride feels, how quiet it is, stability, and more
than anything, just what the controls feel like, so those first time
test pilots might try to get some similar model time before the big one.
Anyone in the US flying yet? I understand that there are three or four
about to launch in the few weeks ahead.
Finally, those with experience with the engines, having been previously
beaten to death in abscence of actual experience, need to hear on how
the actual field perfomance, and general satisfaction level are after
the wheels come up for the first time.
(thanks) Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)evansville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Premolded wings and tail feathers |
On 13 Dec 1995, Herbert F. Kilian wrote:
> >>I can't believe there isn't a case for pre-moulded wings - at a sensible
> price.
>
> Right on, Alan!
> Let's get this discussion in high gear. I can't believe there is nobody besides
> you, Graham and myself having an opinion on this subject. I have seen numerous
> notes to this server ending with "Europa builder and sander..."
> Sounds funny at first but then you start thinking if this is truly a part of
> your project you would be looking forward to. Maybe Ivan needs to go visit the
> German sailplane manufacturers to see how it's done. But then, I read that
> Slingsby is building right next door some interesting fiberglass planes in
> molds...
> Regards
> Herbert
>
Well,
I would like to see some more work done in the areas of the wing and tail
feathers. As others have said, there is as much work in a wing with
pre-molded skins. THe work is just different. Pre-molded skins if they
are cured in an autoclave would be nice. Foam wings like the Europa's
would be nice if they were vacuum bagged and cured in a semi-rigid mold.
The vacuum bagging seems to be the best compromise.
My preferences at this point in time are:
1. Vacuum bagged wing cured in a cradle type of support structure to
prevent building in unwanted twists.
2. premolded skin construction for the horizontal and vertical
stabilizers. Would like autoclave cured skins and construction
methods similar to the Lancair.
Item one is how I plan to build mine (hope to order it before Spring).
The tail will probably use the same vacuum bagging as I don't care to
design my own stressed skin tail. Might consider the vertical stab.
I tried to buy the construction videos for the Berkut as they use the
vacuum bagged foam wing construction but they wouldn't sell them separate
from the airplane kit. Still will try to get a set of their tapes.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
Many of us are very anxious to hear the progress of the NSI Subaru flying in the
UK. Please, don't keep us waiting.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillip Alexander <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
For those who have experience in using SP302 primer /filler can you report your
experience please?
How well does the material cover? (ie does it become transluscent as the dry
film thins towards a feather-edge or is it pretty much opaque wherever it is
presnt? ).
What was the coverage like? (litres/m2).
How well did it feather-edge, particularly if it was extended with microballons?
How did its hardness compare to the underlying material ( ie much much harder
than filler; less hard than laminate)?
Or has anyone found some other `magic` brand? Anyone tried Courtaulds FR80
primer/filler?
Regards, no 175.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | plawless(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (P J Lawless) |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru Update |
>Many of us are very anxious to hear the progress of the NSI Subaru flying
in the
>UK. Please, don't keep us waiting.
>
>Larry Boggs
>
>
Larry
Was talking to the factory this afternoon (Friday 15th) NSI Europa now at
factory for spin tests. I believe it has one 12 hours ish. No other
information weather in UK horrid!
pete lawless N109
ps I am just installing the rear fusalage bulkhead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Subaru flying in the UK.<<
It's going well. Preliminary spin trials have been done without problems. THe
only -ve so far is that visibility over the nose on the ground is poor because
of the longer higher cowling. Not insoluble, there's plenty of room to slim it
down. I would like to see it looking more like the front of a Spitfire or P51.
There's no need for those big ram inlets.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | plane Trim Tab Link Rod |
Tailplane Trim Tab Link Rod
I have noticed that when I take the tailplanes off - it doesn't matter from
which side (so the pins ARE square!) the first side is easy, but the remaining
one wants to pull the anti-servo/trim tab link rod with it - possibly bending
the pin if you are not careful.
Has anyone had the same problem? The solution I see is to bond some circular
'blanks' onto the rod - perhaps 1/8th thick, on the inside of the fuselage such
that the rod resists sideways movement - the blanks would need to be large
enough so that the edges cannot be seen at the extremes of travel. Once
installed my rod has no sideways movement so I would think a clearance between
the outside edge of the blank and the inside skin of the fuselage could be
around 1/8 th inch.
Painting the 'blank' in the same color (colour) as the area around the slot
would neaten up a somewhat exposed hole and perhaps clean this area up
aerodynamically too.
The only problem I see is how do you get the link rod out again if you need to?
Come to that how would you get it out without the blanks on - guess it's in
there for good!!
I would welcome any thoughts before I start!
P.S. On the promo-video (which I am almost word perfect on now!) hasn't G-ELSA
not got something that resembles this?
Regards
Martin Tuck
Builder #152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Major <dvmajor(at)asiaonline.net> |
If you are interested in obtaining video footage of composite construction
techniques, there is a worthwhile tape produced by The Arnold Company. The
video is directed at the construction techniques required to build the AR-5
and includes some very well presented demonstration layups, filmed in
real-time. The tape is called "How it's Made" and is priced at $39.95
including postage, plus $7 for PAL format. Contact:
The Arnold Company
5960 S, Land Park Dr.
#361K Sacramento
CA95822
David Major - aspiring Europa builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
| Subject: | Re: ints and tips |
hello all, some more ideas for you ian;
1) Use ms21042-4 locknuts off the aileron pushrod controls to trial
fit other parts before finishing off with the locknuts (should be
enough), but a good supply of 3/16 standard nuts is essential.
2) take a steel rod about 1 inch dia and 18 inches long and get
someone with a lathe to drill a hole in each end. One end should be a
push fit on the tailplane locating pins and the other end should fit
on the wing locating pins. Very useful for aligning with wing spar and
torque tube. Check those tailplane pins before assembling t/p halves,
ANY misalignment makes separation very difficult as I discovered to my
cost.
3) If the windy tools and compressor are too much then at least get a
small right angle attachment for electric drills. Try the 'deluxe tight
fit drill kit' from aircraft spruce. Also useful are the small (1 inch
dia) cutting discs from Perma Grit tools, Spalding, Lincs, UK. (01529 240
668), for cutting the cockpit module and other bits of finished
glassfibre. A heat gun is handy too.
4) Roll of radiator foil cut into shorter lengths and taped into wider bits
can be used to cover smaller pieces of work when you dont want to heat the
entire workshop. Also if you make up a frame from push-fit waste pipes big
enough to cover both wings when on their leading edges, then cover with
foil, you have an oven!
5) How are you going to grease those metal tubes that are rotating inside
tufnol bearings, t/p and u/c pivots after youve been flying for a few
hours? Drill a hole in the top of the tufnol/pivots and redux in a grease
nipple; preferably before assembly.
5a) After seeing a couple of recent pics of finished panels I see the choke
(and carb heat if fitted) has (or could be) fitted into or onto the central
tunnel, like the throttle. This would probably make the panel layout and
installation easier.It will be nice to reach this stage %-)
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | plane Trim Tab Link Rod |
>>Has anyone had the same problem?<<
Yep, we all have. I've been trying to think of an answer too. Don't know about
ELSA, I can't remember but YURO had something like that on at one stage. Roger
Sheridan, who lurks round here occasionally might tell us? One idea to neaten it
up (credit Jon Tye #1, "Launch Customer") is to use brush type door draught
excluder, like you see in some cars to seal the handbrake lever. BTW I think it
is possible to wiggle it out. If not cut a hole in the fin spar shear web.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hormann(at)hevanet.com (Doug Hormann) |
A quick post to say hello. I'm a student pilot in Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
who hopes to own (read build) his own airplane some day. I've read with growing
interest about the Europa and am intrigued by its versatile nature. Around
here, short soft field capability is a must if you really want to get away
from it all. At the same time, fast cruise is nice to cover the wide open spaces.
I'
ll be reading with interest about the Europa as more take to the skies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
Sorry for the mistake in 16/12/95 posting guys. For ms21042-4 locknut
in #1 read an316-4r checknut.
Tailplane trim tab link rod:- would it be possible to install a
central 'H' shape support, aka the elevator pushrod, to hold the link
rod steady? Or 2 bits of foam bonded to the inside of the fuselage
with a narrow gap between them for the rod to move vertically and
inside faces covered with bid.
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Pattinson <101362.1117(at)compuserve.com> |
Oh No ! Not Again. We are really getting hung up about this business. I dont
really think that premolded skins are the answer and I fancy this route is
probably as much if not more hard work than Ivans method (Yes I know he didnt
invent the technique but you know what I mean).
We used a combination of electric sanding (with vacuum extraction) and a long
hand sander ( a piece of alloy door moulding 3ft long and 4 ins wide). We cant
claim total success with this method YET as we havent got down to painting but
it looks pretty OK to us. A word of warning about the dust - it is toxic !
Apparently the best time to sand the filler is as soon as it will sand
satisfactorily (in our case about 36 hours @ about 20C ). The filler continues
to harden and therefore the best time to do the sanding is as early as possible
however as the hardener has not fully reacted with the resin at this stage it is
more toxic than the fully cured resin. Sanding especially the manual variety is
sweaty work and unfortunately once the sanding dust settles on your skin,the
toxins are easily absorbed. I have assumed you are all wearing proper
respiratory protection otherwise the dangers are multiplied.
It is therefore essential to keep the dust well under control and prevent it
from getting into the atmosphere. For those purists who insist on hand jobbing
the lot, Ron Swindens extraction system is a must otherwise a commercially made
variety is available ( Colin Noakes has the details ), cost about L40. Besides
you cannot sand efficiently with all the dust swilling around !
Like most builders, we dreaded the filling and sanding stage but in the end it
took about two weeks to do the lot (tail bits and wings, flaps, ailerons etc).
The fuselage however is another matter, its taking years (literally).
Regards to all
Carl & Dot Pattinson
G- LABS (eventually !)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
FROM: Ron Swinden, 100776,2633
DATE: 15/12/95, 19:21
Re: Copy of: Flyer Mag No 7
From Ron & Kath Swinden On Teusday the 12th we got the proofs of the mag & took
them down to the printer. Wednesday we got three late articles / adds stopped
the printer & took the new stuff down and added it to the mag on a crowded shop
counter and started the printer once more! Please please try to get your stuff
in ASAP. Today 15th we got the lot back so we have spent the day licking and
weighing to get the mag to most of you for Christmas. We sent 150 to UK 20 to
USA France 5 Germany 4 Austria 3 Italy 1 Denmark 4 Switerland 4 Holland 2 Eire
1
New Zealand 2 Autrailia 5 and 1 each to Hong Kong Keynya & Saudi Arabia. All
the O/seas stuff now goes air Mail so it should'nt take too long.
Some of you are still I think sending me e-mail on Fido net and my local Fidonet
links have gone a bit pearshaped so it would be better if you used my Compuserve
address above. Kath and I will be with our daughter in Hickory NC from end of
Feb and most of March & I would love to see the odd Europa just to stop me from
getting homesick so if you are building within striking distance of NC you might
like to send me a line so I can get in touch.
Just a reminder to people wishing to sign on for the Europa club Rowland Carson
14 The Avenue Trimley IPSWICH 1P10 OTT is the new membership sec so
applications to join should go to him as also should all orders for the back
no's. Thanks to a few peoples help we now have an excellent index. The next job
to think about for anybody with a bit of quality thinking time to spare would be
the extraction of the hints and tips and other useful stuff from the first eight
issues of the mag so that we can supply a condensation of the useful bits
instead of sending the whole of the back mags to new members. Ideas/suggestions
most of all offers of help to me, Rowland or Dave Dufton please Merry
Christmas & a happy New year to you all Stay Healthy thru 96 All the best Ron
&
Kath S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>would it be possible to install a central 'H' shape support, aka the elevator
pushrod,<<
Don't see anything wrong with that. The foam idea should be OK too, maybe
better, larger rubbing surface area therefore less wear.
I'll try & rememebr to check with Ivan next time I see him, when I get a word in
edgeways ;-)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>The fuselage however is another matter, its taking years (literally).<<
They always do, no matter what the design. There are a hundred little jobs, but
to do each one right takes a day. Or a week :-(
Dave Elliot estimated a week to wire up the panel (he's been in practical
electronics all his life. How about six weeks.
BTW ,you know all those connections to the panel from the rest of the plane,
around 40? A medium size ZIF plug ( we used a 96 pin because it was there) works
beautifully. (zero insertion force, Farnells catalogue, cheaper and better than
RS, ask Dave Watson) Each pin will take 5 amps so you onley need to double one
or two.The hard thing is to decide where to put it. Ours is fixed just behind
the slot for the gear/flap lever. Sometimes it goes straight in but other times
it's 15 minutes to juggle it to connect. I think we would leave the plug
floating next time. The panel has been in and out quite a few times fixing
various squarks.
Graham, hoping I'm not boring anyone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailplane Trim Tab Link Rod |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Martin Tuck wrote:
>Tailplane Trim Tab Link Rod
>
>I have noticed that when I take the tailplanes off - it doesn't matter from
>which side (so the pins ARE square!) the first side is easy, but the remaining
>one wants to pull the anti-servo/trim tab link rod with it - possibly bending
>the pin if you are not careful.
>
>Has anyone had the same problem? The solution I see is to bond some circular
>'blanks' onto the rod - perhaps 1/8th thick, on the inside of the fuselage such
>that the rod resists sideways movement - the blanks would need to be large
>enough so that the edges cannot be seen at the extremes of travel. Once
>installed my rod has no sideways movement so I would think a clearance between
>the outside edge of the blank and the inside skin of the fuselage could be
>around 1/8 th inch.
>
bit deleted here
>
>The only problem I see is how do you get the link rod out again if you need to?
>Come to that how would you get it out without the blanks on - guess it's in
>there for good!!
>
>I would welcome any thoughts before I start!
>
We have found exactly the same problem and the solution you propose
is exactly as we have done except we have made up some little
backplates redux'ed onto the link rod with captive nuts which are
small enough to get the link rod out once the blanks, as you call
them, have been removed.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | pa Club - New Membership Secretary |
Just to remind people, in case they didn't spot that line in the recent
post about Flyer #7.
The membership sec for the Europa Club is now:
Rowland Carson
14 The Avenue
Trimley
IPSWICH
England
IP10 0TT
We have a phone as well, but as I don't want to have Wilma acting as my
answering machine (she has other, better, talents), I'm deliberately not
publicising that widely. Our e-mail box normally gets checked at least once
daily, so you'll get nearly as fast a reponse there as with a phone call
anyway.
I'm still trying to get S&L on this job while balancing several other
responsibilities - so if you are waiting for a reply via snail-mail please
bear with me - I'll definitely get caught up over Christmas!
I've asked the appropriate WebMasters to remove Kath Swinden's name and
insert mine on the Europa Club OnLine, and Kevin R Walsh's HomeBuilt Page
(now maintained by Michael Kraus). If you know of anywhere else (in
CyberSpace or indeed anywhere else) needing that change, please let me
know.
cheers
Rowland
PS - I guess if I don't quote the URLs for those pages I'll get mail, so:
http://ayla.avnet.co.uk:80/europa/
http://www.azstarnet.com/~cmddata/homebuilt/
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aa8nn(at)detroit.ampr.org |
Hello fellow builders/enthusiasts...
I took advantage of the offer of compuserve to create a private
WWW-page through their account.
I took some pictures of my project # 81 and also some photos from
Oshkosh '95 and assembled them.
As it is my first try it will not stand up to the standards, but
it might give you an idea of the works here.
The URL is:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com:80/homepages/ToS/
Please take a look and let me know what you think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aa8nn(at)detroit.ampr.org |
| Subject: | pit module to fuselage |
The next job after glueing the cockpit module into the lower
half of the fuselage is to make small layups into the brackets
that hold the fuselage quick-connect bellcrank. I found that the
gap between bracket and fuselage skin is almost 1 cm at places
and though that this would not contribute to the strength of the
layup. Therefore I glued wooden strips in place with 5 minute
epoxy and filled the area with flox before I did the layup.
Another point that comes to mind is that I had a binding movement
of the bar that actuates the trim tabs when the servo was fully
extended. Maybe I was a few mm lower with the servo when I installed
it. Still I would like to suggest to everyone to check the freedom
of movement of all controls under all situations.
This particular binding could have weakended the bar's rodend.
Remedy was to shorten the black forks that are screwed together
and connect servo to belcrank by 1 mm.
Have fun building and stay warm...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello all.
I drove out to Lakeland yesterday (I live near by) to look over the Europa.
My thanks to Bob for spending a lot of time showing me around. Reading about
the Europa doesn't do it justice- seeing it does, and more. If any of you are
like me, working on shortening a short kit list, make a visit to Lakeland or a
builder near you.
Next steps are some rational decision making and work on the shop. Just
unsubscribed from the RV listserve....
*********************************************************************
Larry Portouw, Major, US Army, Tampa, Florida
CIS: 72170,1636 - INTERNET: 72170.1636(at)compuserve.com 20-Dec-1995
at
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
Marc,
How are things out in God's country? My wife and I are Oregonians. Been
trying for 15 years to get stationed anywhere in the Western United States,
but, alas, the government decides where I serve and... Maybe when I retire.
My decision of Europa vs. RV is not yet cast in stone, but after seeing a
lot of RVs and seeing the Europa for the first time, the RV is in jeopardy.
That, plus the fact that I've learned what I want for the time being from the
RV list, and it's tough keeping up with all the activity on that list led me
Why is the Europa winning out? Probably a little rational thought taking
hold. Big plusses, in decreasing importance are:
-Build time (I'm not retired)
-Take it home (hanger money goes to more flying) and easy to move long
distances by surface, even container if necessary. I get sent overseas
periodically.
-Baggage Capacity (my wife and I want a plane for touring, to include
camping).
-Fuel burn (economy)
-Rough Field capability
(-cost seems to be about a wash)
I agree with you observations about RVs. I'm particularly attracted to the
tried and true design. But, with my focus on x-country over getting inverted,
I think the Europa will win out. It's almost an apples an oranges comparison
once I clearly define what I want to do with the airplane. Europa seems to
fit well into a gap between the lower cost kits and the pure x-country
speeders. I've yet to fly the Europa- engines out of the one at Lakeland.
Probably good that it's grounded now, I've a feeling I'd be raiding the piggy
bank about now if I'd flown it. The final decision now depends upon watching
some more customer completions, subscribing to the newsletter, and making sure
I want to do all that sanding :-).
Merry Christmas.
*********************************************************************
Larry Portouw, Major, US Army, Tampa, Florida
CIS: 72170,1636 - INTERNET: 72170.1636(at)compuserve.com 21-Dec-1995
at
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa Flight Simulation |
Hello Everyone
Thanks to Graham Clarke of Gemini Flight Simulations and his team you can now
fly the Europa on your PC if you have a copy of Microsoft's flight simulator
version 5.x.
The necessary files have been placed in the Europa directory at the AVnet FTP
site. For convenience they have been zipped into the file GEMIN.ZIP
Graham has also included some screen shots in PCX format.
Once again thanks to Graham for this excellent contribution, the result of many
many hours work.
Happy Christmas
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
Tom,
great job on your homepage, very impressive! I would be interested to know how
many hours you have put into the project to date and what the
completion-percentage looks like. Also, please tell us if you are a first-time
builder and how you evaluate your building skills. Oh, and by the way, how many
hours a week did you work on the Europa?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | nd AVNET FTP Site |
Peter Thomas wrote:
Peter,
What's the IP address for avent.co.uk? I can't find the description of the
ftp site, and my host won't connect to avent.co.uk: it doesn't appear to be in
the router tables, tells me "host not found" when I try to establish an FTP
connection. Thanks, and to Graham Clarke.
*********************************************************************
Larry Portouw, Major, US Army, Tampa, Florida
CIS: 72170,1636 - INTERNET: 72170.1636(at)compuserve.com 21-Dec-1995 at 19:55:44
ET
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)evansville.net> |
I just ftp'd the files to configure the Microsoft Flight Simulator for
the Europa. Hope to try it out tomorrow. Doesn't look like I am going
to get much work done at "play" , I mean at work ;-).
All I had to do was ftp to ftp.avnet.co.uk then cd to pub and the europa
directory was there.
Hope this helps,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello again
Sorry I missed out on the detail. Here is how to access the AVnet Europa FTP
site step by step. This is a new facility in addition to the archive. The
advantage that the ftp site has over the archive is that we are now able to
store and retrieve binary files, not just text files.
(1) Use any FTP utility. There is one built into WinCim, just 'GO FTP'
(2) The address of the site is ftp.avnet.co.uk
(3) The user id to use is anonymous
(4) The password to use is your e-mail address, so mine would be
100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
(5) By convention public files are stored under the PUB directory.
(6) To keep the Europa Specific files separate from others Monu has created
a Europa directory. So change to this and you should see the Europa files.
(7) Select the files you want to retrieve and away you go.
(8) Please disconnect 'cleanly'. ie log off don't switch off !! This can leave
unnecessary cleaning up to do for the AVnet people if comms jobs terminate
abnormally.
(9) Sit down in a quiet place for a few moments and think of the potential of
this facility. Not only can you now exchange tips and ideas in the form of the
written word, you can now illustrate your ideas with diagrams, photo's, and
sketches. It's success or failure depends on you.
(10) As always, contributions will be very welcome indeed. Please send them to
me, Pete Thomas at 100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
(uuencode, binhex etc etc no problem)
Best Wishes
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)evansville.net> |
| Subject: | HT SIM - Problems Unzipping |
I was able to successfully ftp the gemin.zip file from the Avnet ftp
site. THe problem is that I can not pkunzip the file. It keeps telling
me to run pkzipfix on the file, I do and then the pkunzip on the pkfixed
file is unsuccessful. Is this a problem because I am using the USA
version of pkunzip?
Thanks for any help or advise that follows.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roddy Kesterton <101350.2657(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi - introduction from Roddy Kesterton.
I am a new builder (220). I have had the tail kit for a few months but I'm only
now at the stage of starting to build it. It has taken a while to get a workshop
sorted out with all the recommended tools and comforts, and to get the room
warm and dry enough.
I have a PPL with about 200 hours, most of it in a Cherokee in which I used to
have a share. (This was sold to get the first kit). Touring in the finished
europa is something I am looking forward to.
No definite plans for engine yet - I'll be looking for the best option when I
have to make the choice.
No specific timescale for building; I have various other committments (young
family, promised DIY projects, etc) which keep me out of my workshop.
Roddy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Flight Simulation |
From Gemini - The FTP access info was posted back on Dec.9th in relation
to the Europa parts database - but it rapidly disappeared from view in
the deluge of messages we have had since.
The Fltsim model was posted by Ted Gladstone and self in response to
observations about it's possible use as a colour scheme generator. The
resolution if a bit low for this it turns out 1.2 inches. The flight
dynamic model has hardly been touched, so users should experiment using
the Design Aircraft facility which Flight Shop places in the main menu of
FS5. We will post our own findings soon, but try some of these.
Engines menu:
Engines 1
Power 90 hp.
prop fixed
Prop.High 2500 (no provision for gearbox in the sim)
Prop dia 72
Engine coords -40,0,+5 in.
Aerodynamics menu
Mach max .370 (haven't changed it)
0 flap stall 50 kts
f.flap stall 40
Gear drag .06
Flap mom. .98
Gear mom. 0
all Stabilities 3.0
This seems to give correct cruises speeds and landing and approach speeds
but stability is a bit wishy washy.
Probably the best "fun" way to fly it, is hit the S key for spot plane
mode having put the spot plane on the stern, 100 ft back, same height and
set the response to "fast". But you will still have to cope with the fact
that the spot plane does not keep station too well, and leads one to
overcontrol. This can be disastrous in the landing phase. Needs someone
with real experience to trim this. Peter C please ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: FLIGHT SIM - Problems Unzipping |
The version used was 2.04g dated 2/1/93
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Just a reminder, when scuffing TP5 & 6 for bonding 60 grit is not enough! I
recommend a few shallow saw cuts or dimples drilled in to give a definite
positive mechanical key. Epoxy doesn't stick well to metals, even stainless
without special chemical pretreatment. Anodising works well for aluminum alloy
parts so it's worth getting all your alloy bits done at once.
Be warned, a TP6 coming loose is a pain and a half. It happened to G-YURO.
BTW We graduated from going brmmm brmm round the workshop this week. We went
brmm brmm round Wombleton, slowly, on Monday. Permit to test G-KWIP came today
so we fly weather permitting next week. Pete the Clarke in charge.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: FLIGHT SIM - ZIP corruption |
Yes, something went wrong somewhere between source and sink - Peter has
reposted it - but don't rush - we have now sent him GEMIN2.ZIP which has
improved flight dynamics.
graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aa8nn(at)detroit.ampr.org |
| Subject: | WWW-page, time, engine |
Hello everyone,
Thank you for the response to the WWW-posting on my Kit. I shall
update the page from time to time. Compuserve only offers 1 MB
(If you had told me about 1 MB for free about 10 years ago I
probably would have fainted...) for the page - I guess I shall run
more text than images.
Herbert Kilian asked about the hours of labour. I am sorry for
not keeping a detailed dairy, but I estimate some 800 hrs are in
the project. The Europa can probably not be built in 500 hrs
(unless it is your second one), but I must admit, too, that I
am not a fast worker. Many hours are spent preparing, and simply
being around the plane. I made it a matter of principle to be in
my garage every day for whatever amount of time just to keep the
project warm.
As far as progress is concerned, I don't know how far it is till
the finish line. Is the engine installation a job for three months
or is it done in short weeks ? How about the panel ?
I have my cockpit module in the fuselage and the small layups
around the firewall, the spar holes and the real bulkhead are done
and tomorrow the firewall will be cut out.
As to the engine - there is a Rtx 912 sitting besides me and I feel
it very well compliments the airplane. I like the high standard of
construction and the fact that it has been certified. The Subaru has
some attractivity, too. The additional power has to be paid with some
lead in the tail though.
Keep your projects going...
= Get yourself an issue of Don Dykins second book on the
= Europa-wing and you will never ask about any aerodynamic
= improvements any more ! It is the best possible wing already.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | WWW-page, time, engine |
>>I have my cockpit module in the fuselage and the small layups
around the firewall, the spar holes and the real bulkhead are done
and tomorrow the firewall will be cut out.<<
It's worth getting as much as possible of the syatems into the "bathtub" before
you bond on the top. Especially the elevator trim. Get it all set up and working
with the right deflections at full forward and full back trim. It is a pain
working through small holes at the back, or worse, crawling in to the back.
Be very careful where you put any inspection holes, at all costs don't cut
through the fuselage joint. It forms a vital longeron. Best and safest place is
below the leading edge of the tail, just in front of the rear bulkhead.
It is possible to fit the lift pin sockets and rig the airplane before putting
the top on. The plans don't suggest it but that was the original plan. I did it
that way.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aa8nn(at)detroit.ampr.org |
today I did cut out the area around the wheelwell (firewall and
fuselage bottom). I cut back a square area back 79 cm from the
front of the firewall. This took me beyond the rounded area in
the bottom of the fuselage without foam - that area actually had
looked just right for the wheel to pass through. Also, cutting along
the sides - at the area where the wooden seat reinforcers are bonded
in - I had to cut further outboard to get it flush.
====== Please someone tell me that I did not cut too much/far ======
I saved that piece of the firewall as the manual stipulates. When is
it going to be used ? Is the offer, Graham Singleton has in the Flyer
No. 7 better ?
Tomorrow I plan to build the frame within which the elevator lead
weights are restrained. The manual talks about a 2,5cm rubber tube
to be pushed over a wooden scovel. The local hardware store don't
have such a rubber and in the kit I only found prebend pieces for the
engine installation. Any idea where to cut the piece from ?
There were a few messages about the positioning of the rudder pedals
in order to keep them from jamming with the welded frames. What
exactly do we have to look for during installation of the pedals to
save some hair-pulling (if there is any left) ?
Merry Christmas to everyone,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: questions... |
Firewall cut-out:
As far as I know there is no good use for the firewall cut-out except for
small in-fill pieces, e.g. where rudder pedals come through. Its not big
enough to substitute for the stainless. Following my posting on 9 Dec. I
have now made a two-part planar stainless firewall lying just in front of
the bungees, and apart from the frame holes,it only has cut-outs for the
cables. Its all very snug and simple with three bolts into anchor nuts
joining the two halves up the middle.
Wheel well lip:
I also decided the remove the lip next to the plywood panels to avoid it
retaining crud thrown up from the wheel. You might also need to fill the
join from the inside or when you round it off, or it will be mighty weak.
I have a notion to make a door flush with the Al. frame to close off the
aperture almost entirely in the up position, but need a windtunnel to
decide if the drag reduction is worth the weight increase. Other builders
have made/suggested a mudguard for the down position to avoid Europa
becoming grass clipping scavengers par excellence.
Lower stop rubber tube:
This came with my kit - suggest you chase them for it.
Incidentally I formed the upper stop and mount as one piece before
putting the top on, to avoid all this clambering inside, which is nigh
impossible for someone of my build.
Rudder crank conflicts:
My 9th Dec. message gives the volume forward of the frame to be avoided
by the cranks, at least for the Rotax. Don't know about Subaru, but must
be similar I guess.
Merry Chistmas from Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
| Subject: | rats Graham and Norman |
Hello all,
First congratulations to Graham and co on a succesful first flight
last week. Gives the rest of us something to look forward to.
Kit66 flew on sat 15 dec in Germany. Norman Adam and his inspector
Dave Rae took 2 years to finish it, with the most impressive, yet
lightweight panel, extralightweight lining and super leather cockpit!
Norman is a retired RAF engineer, and the details and workmanship are
superb. Andy Draper and Ivan came over to RAF Bruggen, Germany, for
the flight and Andy did the honours: It flew beautifully he said.
The testing, spins etc wont be completed until the end of January,
when Normans test pilot will next be available, but builders might be
interested to know that the Hoffman 3 blade constant speed prop works
a treat. It still needs the fine pitch stop adjusting to the plane but
according to Norman with the speed set at 101KT, the throttle was
pulled way back and the plane just cruised along. GPS (skymap) worked
fine with the standard aerial in the rear fuzz and they will probably
put the transponder aerial (short stumpy one) outside, under the rear
fuzz.
Engine is 912, the prop weighs about 10kg and a small amount of
lead was needed in the back. AUW was around 790 lb. They too had
problems with the trim servo pushrod binding (see note from Thomas a
couple of days back), so check this carefully before you put the top
deck on. BTW, Hoffman constant speed is experimental I believe, but
for those interested, around DM 11,000..... Worth having though if you
have the readies.
chus, dave
kit67
PS After the europa delegation had gone Norman asked his test pilot,
Chris Heames, a RAF Tornado pilot, what he really thought: 'bloody
superb - a real hooligans machine': Those of us who have flown a
europa know exactly what he means.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> I cut back a square area back 79 cm from the
front of the firewall. This took me beyond the rounded area in
the bottom of the fuselage without foam - that area actually had
looked just right for the wheel to pass through.<<
It was just right. I don't know why they say cut it square, although it could be
to avoid collecting mud. I cut ours round and made a round removeable bulkhead
to suit.
One thing I didn't think about was what happens when you have a puncture? Now I
know, courtesy G-NDOL, the brake calliper hits the ground and the tyre gets
ruined. It would be difficult fitting the calliper above the axle but it could
well be worth the effort.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | hinges and recess.forms a nice |
With the hinges mounted in the designated position on the door tangs as
per 10-94 Fig.4, the tang extension cannot possibly sweep through the
fuselage recess intended for it, at least for my moulding. What have
builders who have fitted the doors done ? My instinct is to cut off the
extension beyond the hinge and fill up the gap in the fuselage
accordingly. After all, what good does this extension do ?, apart from
dip into a recess which forms a nasty water/ice trap to keep you locked
out (or in !).
Graham 2 No.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aa8nn(at)detroit.ampr.org |
Thank you Graham for your help !
Here is one more question related to the installation of the welded
frame for main wheel and engine mount:
The manual states at that point on page 10-57 (issue 18) that 'the
correct location for the frame is when the top and starboard tubes
.. are within 1.5 to 3 mm of the firewall.'
Well, aren't the other two sides then 1.5 - 3 mm from the firewall,
too ? This could result in an engine pointing off the correct thrust-
line.
The next phrase in the manual:'Ensure there is a gap between the top
tube and the fuselage structre of at least 5 mm for the rubber
bungee'.
Weren't we just told to keep it 1.5 - 3 mm ?
Probably it is my poor English here - but I want to make sure, that
I can't fly but left turns.
+ Just rebuilding the WWW page on Kit 81 with info on the
+ Navaid Autopilot Installation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk (W.W-Wynne) |
| Subject: | ru Engine Update G-NDOL |
On the 13th December G-NDOL made her first cross-country flight from Kemble
to the Europa factory at Kirkbymoorside, to give both Ivan and Pete Clarke
the opportunity to evaluate the first aircraft to be fitted with the more
powerful Subaru EA-81 engine.
Graham informs me that both Ivan and Pete were very impressed with the extra
performance and commented on how smooth and quiet she was. So far she shows
no signs of having any unfavourable stability or handling characteristics.
The PFA has given its approval to test the aircraft at an increased maximum
take-off weight of 1,375lbs, which will give a useful load of over 500lbs.
The aircraft cruises comfortably at 130kts and has a climb rate of over
1,000ft/min at MAUW. Maximum straight and level is 145kts although the gear
ratio has not yet been optimised. This is being dealt with at the moment.
Europa Aviation gave some very positive feedback and suggested modifying the
shape of the engine cowls in order to increase forward visibility while on
the ground: this is being incorporated into the production models.
A full spin programme was not possible due to adverse weather, but Pete
managed to do 2 & 3 turn spins with standard recovery. However, he pointed
out that a full spin test schedule will still be required. Based on results
so far he did not anticipate any problems. G-NDOL will be returning to
Kirkbymoorside in January in order to complete the test programme.
Have a very Happy Christmas everyone - I have just had a brilliant flight up
the Welsh coastline in my wobbly - brass monkeys but what a view!
bbbbbbBill
Bill Wynne Europa 40 bill(at)wynne.co.uk tel: +44 (0) 1654,710101/2/3
Located N52 36.72 W004 04.53. Talybont, Tywyn. Gwynedd LL36 9LG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | hinges and recess.forms a nice |
>>what good does this extension do ?,<<
Good question,Graham. I thought it was supposed to be the up stop for the door
so I left it on and cut off the recess in the fuselage instead. I then built up
the fuse' skin to meet the door tangs with the doors at max possible opening,
(makes it easier to get in) and matched the bottom of the door tangs to this new
edge to the fuse' recesses. Finally made new recess bottoms to suit. With the
doors closed there is now a nice even shut line all round. Took ages to do but
pleases me.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>'the
correct location for the frame is when the top and starboard tubes
.. are within 1.5 to 3 mm of the firewall.'<<
I agree with you, it's far too vague. The most important thing seems to me to be
thrust line alignment. In the absance of further information I chose straight
ahead so I measured the distance of the four mounting pads to the firewall. The
next criterion was to leave enough room behind the top tube for the shock cord,
5 mm seems OK. You also need to lookout for the height of the engine, so make
sure the tubes sit snugly into the top corners of the gear bay.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Door tangs and pitot mod. |
Yes I considered reforming the recess, but those of us who are pedalling
hard to catch up with you need the simplest solutions, so I think I'll
cut back the tang. The gas strut should provide a good enough fully open
limit. Suppose I ought to check with the factory when they revive from
the holidays.
I also want to ask them about running the pitot tube along the aileron
push rod. Those of us who have had to do the "boring out" mod to
reposition it, find there is plenty of room to run it without attaching
it to the tube. The latter not only involves a tedious removal, but adds
cyclic flexing forces to the mechanism and tube ends which are
undesirable.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: one more question |
If you interpret "top" as "port" it all makes sense. Appears to be a
typing error which has not been corrected ! 5mm-7mm is ok in practice
for the top member, and a radius is easily filed on the wall edge if it's
a bit tight. Incidentally I found the gear much better balanced if all
the tension was wound on to the cord with the gear up, and all the length
used for it. The poor old cord has a very poor mechanical advantage. I
wonder how long it will last.
I am posting a template for a planar firewall in the FTP which avoids the
need for cut-outs for the rudder pedal cranks.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | t/filler quantities |
There must be quite a few builders approaching the painting stage who
would appreciate not having to fork out for surplus paint. Perhaps those
who have already done it could post their material quatitities here,
along with type, price and source, to the benefit of all ?
Graham 2, gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ht Sims and Paint |
Reply to Graham Clarke,
For paint, I have used a system sold by Skycraft, it is badged as their own, but
made by reputable paint company (which they won't name). The primer/filler is a
two pack flexible PU, as is top coat. We have had airframe painted in primer for
4 months now, we intend to top coat at last possible moment, after trimming etc,
to avoid damage. We should be top coating early Feb. From memory, we used around
7 ltrs of primer/filler, but most of this will have been sanded off.
So far I am very impressed with the results, very easy to apply, flexible but
tough, flows out well, sticks like the proverbial etc. I think you will find
several builders using different paint systems, most are keeping their heads
down (I am!!), in case it doesn't work. In 12 months time, with 500hrs on the
airframe (?), I will then recomend the system.
PS Just downloaded the Europa FS5 files from Avnet FTP site, so far I've only
had a look at the PIX files, it looks EXCELLENT!, can't wait to fly it. I assume
that BAO Flight Shop is needed to make it work, I don't seem to be having any
luck finding anyone that has it from stock at the moment.
Did you do the 3D modelling in flight shop? To pick up from your earlier thread,
it would be interesting to have a 3D model to try various paint schemes on. As
I
have to pay for my own software, AutoCad R13 is just a dream, but I was
considering trying Visual Reality 2 or TrueSpace 1. It would be nice to be able
to see the paint job before rather than after, I only want to paint it
once!.............
Best Regards,
Allan J Hall G-DAYS, kit 177, 95% done (finished all of the instruction
manuals!) with only 30% to go now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door tangs and pitot mod. |
>>running the pitot tube along the aileron push rod.<<
Reply to Graham Clarke.
If you use 1/4" OD nylon pressure tubing it fits neatly in the corner of the win
trailing edge close out/flap shroud. Also you can use light nylon push fit
couplings throughout. Probably half the weight of the PVC tube.
>>There must be quite a few builders approaching the painting stage<<
Colin Noakes recommended SP Systems Hi Build primer/filler (we used 8 litres,
most of which ended on the floor as dust) Akzo brushing filler, which is the
easiest way to fill the pin holes, and 5 litres of Akzo C 21/100 UVR. This has
much better UV resistance than any of the automotive paints, which is why Europa
chose it. They also offer the best price. They may be persuaded to supply SP's
filler, which sands nicely and is cheaper than Akzo's. Any trim colours can be
automotive two pack if desired.
Prices; Akzo brushing filler, 2 l pack, L23 +vat.
Akzo C21 5 l pack, L94.30 +
Hardener for both, 5 l L65.02 +
SP primer, 4 l pack about L75
Thinners are extra and needed.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Paint & Flight Shop |
Many thanks Alan for the paint info. Flight Shop does seem to be in short
supply in Uk and the Us. Mine came from R.C.Simulations in Bristol
tel 01275 474 <550>, fax <855> ( who sell our Uk scenery on ROM !) but
just now you get an answering machine.
Try also Transair on
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Shop and model painting |
Sorry -got distracted and sent that before finishing it !
Transair phone is 01276 858 533, fax is 01276 855 464
G-EMIN model - we havent uploaded the full build files yet. Painting is
not wysiwyg unfortunately. It can be done by making a .pcx using anything
convenient, but your artwork gets wrapped round the structure, so it's a
weird geometric transform you have to draw, apart from text or just color
substitution which is ok. Trial and error will get you there sooner or
later, so I will post the full set soon.
Progress here frozen somewhat - overalls stand up by themselves !
Graham 2 gemin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | ht shop and Euromake .zip |
R.C.Simulations at Bristol have some - email 100556.3252@compuserve
but they won't open till 1996 now.
For those wishing to get involved with their own painting, the extra
files necessary to reproduce the model will be posted in the FTP as
EUROMAKE.ZIP
Graham 2 - gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Nylon pressure tubing. and paint |
Reply to Graham 1
Smaller diameter nylon tube sounds great. Where can you buy it ? It would
go in my aileron tunnel even better. I suppose we have to get its use
approved, and does it have a limited life as suggested for the supplied
tube ?.
Many thanks for the painting info. Expensive business especially as you
sand most of it off ! Maybe one day the chemists will give us a
self-coloured kit- clear epoxy and polishable white filler, TiO2 ?
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: questions/landing gear cut-out. |
Further to Thomas's questions of 23rd Dec.
I made my cut-out round - the manual doesn't specify but there were marks
on the bottom indicating a round end. If you want to make a mudguard it
then has to be part of a sphere which is snug, but more difficult.
Incidentally it is not obvious until you get the Engine manual that the
tunnel is closed off by another bulkhead further back, so you don't get
things going down the tunnel. (This is a possible use for the firewall
cutout). If permanently fixed this bulkhead will stop you getting easy
access down the tunnel to the fuel fittings etc. and the aperture in the
tunnel top is not much use for this. As the petrol pump and filter are
carried on the draughty side of the bulkhead, these will get filthy so a
mudguard is still desirable, either following the back of the cutout or
swinging up with the wheel.
Graham 2, no.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply To Graham 2,
<| Date: | Dec 30, 1995 |
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: questions/landing gear cut-out. |
>>the petrol pump and filter are carried on the draughty side of the bulkhead,
these will get filthy so a mudguard is still desirable,<<
There may be ambiguity in the manual, here. I'm sure they are meant to be behind
the bulkhead. Nonetheless, as you say the mudguard is still worth while to keep
the muck off the throttle box, brake master cylinder, flap controls etc.
The nylon pressure tube is sold by Truck & Trailer Components, who sell through
commercial vehicle brake and hydraulic speciallists. Also the push on fittings.
PFA have approved my installation (& only mine, so far, so ask for your own
approval), . I've mislaid their phone #, whenif it turns up I'll post it. Life
should be at least 10 years, my nylon brake lines on the EZ are still OK.
Allan Hall's point:>>possibility of the rudder cables contacting and sawing
through the hoses.<<
Another method, use on Lancair's and EZs is to run the rudder cables through
3/16 OD nylon tubing bonded(glassed in) to the structure. One layer of BID is
enough.
BTW it would be courteous to let Europa know of any mods you make to their
outstanding design, so that they can tell you they "thought of that one but it
won't work and this is why." IMHO the Europa is one of the few designs that
actually advance the state of the art. Fortunately for us, Ivan didn't reallise
what an immense task he had set himself and his team, or they might never have
started it.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Tunnel Bulkhead |
Right Allan ! - the manual glibly says this might be made removable.
While I haven't put tried pump and filter on it yet, it seems that as
these are festooned with feedpipes plus electrical wiring this is not an
easy option either. The tunnel which looked empty when it had only the
wheel in it, is filling up pretty quickly with all sorts of gadgets
competing for space. e.g. further forward is the throttle gate, no doubt
soon to be enlarged with a vp prop. quadrant. Also, judging from Graham
1's experience, it looks as if the disc brake caliper will need to be
rotated towards the top 120 or 240 deg. to avoid puncturing the tyre,
with more potential conflict with the rudder cables. This will spoil my
solution to the right rudder cable being hooked by the caliper - which
was to raise the pulley an inch, so the caliper never reached the cable.
An enclosed cable is looking inevitable is it not ?
Graham 2 No.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: questions/landing gear cut-out. |
Many thanks, all very useful as usual ! With trailer people nearby here
I will try them when the festivities subside. Yes I do interact with
Europa on changes - e.g. have sent them my firewall template - guess they
will soon have one from every builder ?
Happy New Year from
Graham 2 No.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
I have been asked to post this message on behalf of another builder.
Europa For Sale
Unique opportunity to purchase completed Europa airframe. Built to highest
standards, painted to exhibition finish. Wired, ready for panel, throttle
quadrant, ebony custom grips, outrigger cuffs. Ready to take Subaru or Rotax
engine. Includes special trailer. Signed off and registered.
Telephone : (44) (0)1584 811183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | ing to "clock in..." |
Does anyone have an old/spare (working) "Clocking in" type machine doing
nothing in a corner? Miles and I would like to have one in the workshop so
that we can accurately gauge the amount of time that we spend on a) The kit
as a whole and b) on each particular task...in this way we hope to be able
to report things fairly accurately in the mag.
If anyone has one that they could loan or donate for 18 months (I hope)
then I'd be more than happy to arrange collection
Happy building
PS On arriving at the workshop yesterday the temperature was -4 c!
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tunnel Bulkhead |
We made our tunnel bulkhead removeable, which would have made it awkward if the
pump and filter were mounted on it, so we mounted them on the side of the
tunnel, all sloping nicely upward to avoid air locks, with the fuel drain at the
bottom. Then we decided to do the L.A. seat mod. More head scratching. It's
probably worth doing unless you are really small or narrow shouldered.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa Mail: Tunnel Bulkhead |
Reply to Graham Clarke
<>
<>
<>
This is the busiest part of the airframe! The other thing to watch is when
fitting the throttle quadrant. Get it as far back as possible (just touching
tyre when up), because if you don't your hand will foul the panel with trottle
lever in full forward position!
Moving the rudder pulley up 1" doesn't work (been there, bought the 'T' shirt,
etc) because the rudder cables foul the transverse flap actuating bar (the one
behind the fuel tank) in the flaps down position. My current solution is to
install an extra pulley each side, about same fuz station as front of seat
bases, to route the cables above the caliper and wheel hub, I'm still awaiting
factory and PFA consent on this, as the greater wrap angle on the existing
pulley increases the loading and needs some figures to back up the mod. I must
admit that I don't much like the factory solution of pulling the cables sideways
with tufnol rubbing blocks, in our case the starboard cable had to be pulled so
far that it touched the tunnel sides!
If you are doing the LA tunnel mod (Yes, I am. In middle age the mind narrows
and the waist broadens, I plead guilty to both ), cut the holes sooner rather
than later, it makes access much easier. Get everything into place then do the
closing layups last.
Best Wishes to all for a happy & prosperous 1996. May your dreams sprout wings
and fly!
Allan J Hall #177
$*$*$*$*$ 1 LINE REFORMATTED BY POPPER AT gn.apc.org $*$*$*$*$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa Mail: Tunnel Bulkhead |
>>LA tunnel mod<<
A trick I sometimes use is to knock up the shape of the moulding, ie the new
tunnel sides, in lead sheet then use that for a mould. If you are good with the
tin bashing, and it's easiest in lead, it can be quite neat and quick.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
I give up - there are two Grahams on the Europa net in addition to me,
and now I see Graham Clark is the new editor for PFA magazine - ok he
doesn't have a final e, but from now on I will sign
gemin (ex Graham Clarke, no.83)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Ian:
>Does anyone have an old/spare (working) "Clocking in" type machine
No, but have a look in the RS/Electrocomponents or Farnell electronics
catalogues. You'll find hour-meters which run on 240V ac (also 12/24V dc,
more useful in the aircraft). You can hook one of those up to the lights in
your workshop so it runs all the time you're in there, or put in an
imitation 'clocking-in' switch if you're sure you can remember to use it
every time (_both_ on & off!).
If you're really keen you'll have 2 clocks - one for "thinking" time and
one for "doing" time (and then there should be one for the time spent
reading/writing Europa e-mail, reading/writing 'Europa Flyer' Newsletter
items, and reading/writing the _other_ 'Flyer' articles on the Europa
...... :-)).
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
>Ian:
>
>>Does anyone have an old/spare (working) "Clocking in" type machine
>
>No, but have a look in the RS/Electrocomponents or Farnell electronics
>catalogues. You'll find hour-meters which run on 240V ac (also 12/24V dc,
>more useful in the aircraft). You can hook one of those up to the lights in
>your workshop so it runs all the time you're in there, or put in an
>imitation 'clocking-in' switch if you're sure you can remember to use it
>every time (_both_ on & off!).
>
>If you're really keen you'll have 2 clocks - one for "thinking" time and
>one for "doing" time (and then there should be one for the time spent
>reading/writing Europa e-mail, reading/writing 'Europa Flyer' Newsletter
>items, and reading/writing the _other_ 'Flyer' articles on the Europa
>...... :-)).
>
>cheers
>
>Rowland
>
>
>... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>
>
Thanks I'll take a look. If I were to use teh clock at the moment the stats
would go something like this...
Preparing workshop 10%
Thinking 10%
Waiting for workshop to heat up 80%
Have fun
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Mail: LA mod |
Moulding sounds good, but are you proposing a just a bid layup and no
foam, or some core material. That sheet of beige stuff already supplied
should work eh ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Mail: Rudder cable run |
Reply to Allan
Maybe your cables are nearer the centre than mine. The curve of tube has
started to rise where my cables pass by about 10mm. In any case a
downward deflector at this position would generate least increase in
tension being about half way along. I agree there is really serious
deflection by the tufnols at the front, which have generated a daunting
scraping noise, and I would think the tufnol will need renewing every 50
hrs. maybe less.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
I think I have read somewhere that there is a problem with this where it
comes through the rear bulkead. There certainly is with mine. With the
number of washers shown and a long enough bolt (AN4-32A, not AN4-13A as
shown) at the tail wheel crank end, the hole in the bulkhead is too high
to allow the centre line of the rod to reach the hinge on the rudder 6
1/2" up from the bottom of the rudder. Neither lowering the hole (it
would cut into the Alu. bulkhead reinforcement) or raising the bracket on
the rudder (it would lie then above the span of the hinge) seems a
satisfactory answer. What have the flying ones done ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | -lok versus Cleco |
The drawbacks of the Cleco's supplied are well known (assymetry, small
lip etc.) I have "inherited" some "Kwik-lok"'s. They are symmetric and
you use a tool like a pair of pliers to compress a heavy internal spring,
insert the shaped ends in the hole, and on release of the spring, a
central tongue is forced between them. The whole operation is one-handed
and instant, resulting in a firm grip which has not so far pulled through
anywhere without using washers. Unfortunately I don't know the source or
the price, but they are well worth a search.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
When setting up flaps, we found that when the starboard flap was in correct
retracted position, our port side flap hangs a bit low (2-3 deg). This seems to
be due to the fact that the flap actuating pushrod pushes/pulls the transverse
flap actuating bar from an off centre line position (biased to starboard), so
that the starboard side pulls slightly more than the port side.
The fix we have come up with is simple and seems to work: Bond a tufnol stop
block to the rear of the cabin bulkhead, to fill the gap between the flap
transverse bar and the bulkhead. Its thickness is determined by the desired flap
up position. When the flaps are moved to up, the transverse flap actuating bar
will contact the tufnol stop and prevent any further travel on the starboard
side, however the port side can still move up further. The linkage is then
shortened until the port flap is pulled up into the correct position. Difficult
to explain, but easy to do!
Allan #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to Graham (Gemin),
<>
Yes, our pulleys are spaced out with 4 or 5 washers, this was done to clear the
U/C mounting frame uprights at the front. If you are lifting the cables, have
you fitted fuel cock and outlet hoses from tank yet? If not, I would advise you
to fit these first, as you may find that cables run bang in line with outlet
hoses, and cables may have to be lifted further, or hoses bent down and cables
routed over rather than under hoses. If you are going above hoses with the
cables, some form of protection to hoses would be essential.
Also, make sure you have max possible articulation on U/C trailing arm, so that
it is up as far as possible. We have the earlier version of bungee mod, and fit
it without instructions. When we took everything apart again for painting, we
found that we should have filed a curve onto the mod plates, as they were
catching on lower steel suspension block and preventing full articulation. After
correction we got the wheel another 1 1/2 inches further up into the tunnel.
Only problem is that we had already set the flap linkage up, so we ordered more
parts and have this to re-do :-(
Allan #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | zeus(at)myth.demon.co.uk (Mike Cowgill) |
| Subject: | Re: clocking machines |
In message <v01520d00ad0defc3c44d@[193.37.35.130]> rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland &
Wilma Carson) writes:
> Ian:
>
> >Does anyone have an old/spare (working) "Clocking in" type machine
>
> No, but have a look in the RS/Electrocomponents or Farnell electronics
> catalogues. You'll find hour-meters which run on 240V ac (also 12/24V dc,
> more useful in the aircraft).
You might find used versions of these at at friendly aviation engineering
firm of one sort or another, as they are often used for measuring engine
hours etc.
Mike.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>When setting up flaps, we found that when the starboard flap was in correct
retracted position, our port side flap hangs a bit low (2-3 deg)<<
We found the same. The other problem is I suspect that because the flap push rod
is bent it straightens under tension and doesn't pull the flaps up as far as it
should. Hence the need for the new extended actuating lever. I like your tuphnol
up stops. Makes sense to me.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk |
-------------------------------------
Name: Dave & Margaret Watson #224
Date: 01/03/96
Time: 19:06:48
-------------------------------------
>>The nylon pressure tube is sold by Truck & Trailer Components, who sell through
commercial vehicle brake and hydraulic speciallists.<<
If anyone is having difficulty getting hold of this nylon pressure tubing and the
associated push fittings are
also available from any compressed air suppliers, Farnell Components, and even,
dare I say it, RS.
Am back at work tomorrow, so will post part numbers and pricing information for
the zif plug and sockets that
Graham Won Ton noted in one of his recent e-mails.
Sorry, but have been off the air over Christmas suffering from a serious bout of
the STONEHENGE virus that
completely rubbished the partition table of our 1GB disk.Dr solomon's couldn't
fix it so will have to low
level format the disk.
Dave & Margaret
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
<>
The central tunnel between the pilot & passenger tends to make the seats a snug
fit. The LA mod consists of removing part of the central tunnel on each side,
and re-shaping it to reduce the tunnel intrusion. This makes the seating width
greater, particularly useful for people with LARGE ARSES. It also creates a bit
more outboard elbow room for both occupants (by moving them closer together).
Hope this helps :-)
Allan #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Hill <b.hill(at)ndh.com> |
| Subject: | ne need help building their Europa? |
Hi,
Is anyone building a Europa in Hampshire, West Sussex or East Dorset,
who could do with some free help? My 19 year old son has a PPL(A)and has
time on his hands whilst he is looking for a job (in the aviation
industry). He is keen on Europas and would love to help anyone who is
building one. If there is anyone in the above area who could use some
enthusiastic help, please contact me, in the first instance, on
b.hill(at)ndh.com or phone 0049-2247-69617.
Regards,
David Hill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Sonderskov <100563.1141(at)compuserve.com> |
I'm a impending builder and keep a close eye on these messages, which, to be
perfectly frank puts the fear for god into me. Why do I want to do this? (I know
really)
Three questions.
Is there a specification for the "minimum" workshop, ie: size (shape); tool list
etc. Advice from existing builders would be great.
Has anyone got any advice on insurance during the building stages.
Is there a builder near north London (Beds, Essex & Herts) who could put up with
a visit and a chat.
Many thanks, keep at it!
Pete Sonderskov
Kit number ????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Eaves" <David_Eaves(at)eurogw1.mentorg.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa_Mail- General hel |
Pete,
I may be of some help. We are in the final stages of filming the first in a
series of videos called "Build The Europa". The first video called "Getting
Started" (available early 96), covers such topics as, the workshop
environment/setup tools used, introduction to the chemicals used, examples of
the lamination process, plus other subjects. Hopefully if you can wait for
it's availability, it should answer some of the questions you have.
Thanks
David Eaves
Date: 4/1/96 9:06 am
From: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Date: 04 Jan 96 02:40:08 EST
From: Pete Sonderskov <100563.1141(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: General help
I'm a impending builder and keep a close eye on these messages, which, to be
perfectly frank puts the fear for god into me. Why do I want to do this? (I
know
really)
Three questions.
Is there a specification for the "minimum" workshop, ie: size (shape); tool
list
etc. Advice from existing builders would be great.
Has anyone got any advice on insurance during the building stages.
Is there a builder near north London (Beds, Essex & Herts) who could put up
with
a visit and a chat.
Many thanks, keep at it!
Pete Sonderskov
Kit number ????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
I'm looking at using either silicone insulated cable and/or ptfe insulated cable
as alternatives to pvc. If anyone thinks I shouldn't be I'd like to know!
Happy New Year to all
rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Rolph, just got back from Murky Moorside waiting for the fog to clear so we
could fly GK Wip.
It didn't clear.
Silicone cable isn't really suitable,it's not very resistant to abrasion, being
designed for uses where multiple flexing occurs.
Never use PVC. If a temporaray overload occurs it will melt slightly and the
conductor will start to migrate towards the side of the insulation. After
several such events it may well break through and cause a short.
Nyvin (nylon/pvc) is OK because it's glass reinforced, but when it gets very hot
it gives off toxic and corosive vapours.
Aircraft Spruce sell the right stuff, called Tefzel, but it's not cheap. I'm
planning to buy the more useful sizes in bulk very soon, so I'll be able to pass
on the price advantage. You only need a yard or two of the heavier guages so buy
that from AS or Wicks.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Panels - again |
In message <960106000513_100421.2123_BHG30-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, Graham
Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> writes
>
>Silicone cable isn't really suitable,it's not very resistant to abrasion, being
>designed for uses where multiple flexing occurs.
There are variants of silicone insulated cables which employ a glass
fibre external braiding to overcome the abrasion problem which will
stand 150 degC continous and 180 degC short term. A 24/0.2m
2 tinned
copper 6A rated cable of this type weighs around 15 gramms/meter and is
available as RS part number 381-731 (RS Components GMBH at Hessenning,
13b Morfelden-Walldorf, Postfach 13 65 Germany. Tel: 61 05 401 234. Cost
about DM28 per 25M.
>Never use PVC. If a temporaray overload occurs it will melt slightly and the
>conductor will start to migrate towards the side of the insulation. After
>several such events it may well break through and cause a short.
Totally agree, it wouldn't be death from burning but asphyxiation.
>Nyvin (nylon/pvc) is OK because it's glass reinforced, but when it gets very hot
>it gives off toxic and corosive vapours.
Horribly expensive as well!
Consider also PTFE insulated which has a higher temperature range (-55C
to +200C) and very good abrasion resistance. RS supply a 7/0.2 (24AwG)
silver plated copper 6amp rated in seven different colours at around
DM18 per 25m which weighs 4gm/metre therefore significantly lighter than
either glass wrapped silicon or even Myvin.
If you can get hold off it anything to Def-Stan 61-12 Part 18 is the
best, circa DM20 per 25m and 7.5g/metre for 13A rated 19/0.2 1.4mm
diameter.
Trouble is I have only ever seen it sold in 300m reels.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | l quantity weighing |
The further into the project one gets, the more demand there seems to be
for small quantities of epoxy and redux. Having a while back advocated
one-cup weighing where weights some three times lighter than the goo are
used on the long arm, it has just dawned on me that by exchanging the
locations, one can accurately weigh quantities some 10 times smaller,
i.e. with the nuts or bolts on the short arm. Smaller cups are desirable,
suggest 35mm film canisters, obtainable by the bagfull from your local
friendly film processing shop who otherwise bin them.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
To Graham 1, please let me know when you have the Tefzel cable(s) - I
could use some, thanks
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | Re: Small quantity weighing |
>The further into the project one gets, the more demand there seems to be
>for small quantities of epoxy and redux. Having a while back advocated
>one-cup weighing where weights some three times lighter than the goo are
>used on the long arm, it has just dawned on me that by exchanging the
>locations, one can accurately weigh quantities some 10 times smaller,
>i.e. with the nuts or bolts on the short arm. Smaller cups are desirable,
>suggest 35mm film canisters, obtainable by the bagfull from your local
>friendly film processing shop who otherwise bin them.
>
>gemin
>
Does anyone have any experience of the variable ratio epoxy dispensers. It
seems that in various quantities of resin are required one of these may be
a good investment at the start of a kit. I think that they can be purchased
from the US for about $230 + shipping, a lot I know, but if it reduces the
hassle of mixing resin and cuts down on waste wouldn't they be a good
thing?
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small quantity weighing |
Reply to Ian Seager,
I wouldn't feel happy about weighing small quantities on a mixing pump. The
problem is that inaccuracy can arise from non return valves not closing
cleanly, air bubbles in the wrong place, leaking valves etc. The errors are
acceptable with quantities of say 100 gms. but I wouldn't trust the accuracy for
any less.
I had an old mechanical (except for the scale lamp) chemical balance which will
easily resolve to one drop, less than .1 gm. The scale is analog too, even
easier to use. 20 quid from Anchor Surplus, Nottingham. There are digital
balances used for paint colour mixing of similar accuracy which are ideal, if
you can find one at the right price. :-)m&d
I always mix fast epoxy by weight too, I find it cures off so much better, you
don't get the slight stickiness that sometimes happens if you do it by eye, or
don't mix long enough. Don't forget mix ratio by weight is not quite the same as
by volume.
If you are mixing by weight, use a spread sheet print out 10 to 100 gms in .1 gm
steps, next column previous cell times 1.25 gives the weight including hardener.
If you don't understand spreadsheets, this is a very worth while way to get
familiar, then you will know how easy they are and be ready when you come to the
weight and balance. IMHO Anyone who does a weight and balance by hand is a self
made martyr. Why write it out every time when all you have to do is type it in
once, in exactly the same format and it's done for all situations.
Graham pontificking again, sorry!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anyone need help building their Europa? |
>Hi,
>
>Is anyone building a Europa in Hampshire, West Sussex or East Dorset,
>who could do with some free help? My 19 year old son has a PPL(A)and has
>time on his hands whilst he is looking for a job (in the aviation
>industry). He is keen on Europas and would love to help anyone who is
>building one. If there is anyone in the above area who could use some
>enthusiastic help, please contact me, in the first instance, on
>b.hill(at)ndh.com or phone 0049-2247-69617.
>
>Regards,
>
>David Hill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anyone need help building their Europa? |
>Hi,
>
>Is anyone building a Europa in Hampshire, West Sussex or East Dorset,
>who could do with some free help? My 19 year old son has a PPL(A)and has
>time on his hands whilst he is looking for a job (in the aviation
>industry). He is keen on Europas and would love to help anyone who is
>building one. If there is anyone in the above area who could use some
>enthusiastic help, please contact me, in the first instance, on
>b.hill(at)ndh.com or phone 0049-2247-69617.
>
>Regards,
>
>David Hill
>
>Hi I am building a Europa in Wimborne Dorset please telephone me on
01202 884517 as I could do with a hand.
Thanks John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi all,
Does anyone out there have any ideas on sound deadening materials to reduce
interior noise levels? I would like to reduce it from low to very low! I know
that felt was used against the inside of the firewall of G-KITS, and was quite
successful in reducing cabin noise. What we need to know is what has maximum
attenuation for lowest weight, and best place to put it.
If Graham isn't busy trying to fly his Europa IFR in known icing conditions at
Murky Moorside he may have some ideas?
Allan #177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
There is in fact a good reason for a long door tang. As the hinge axis is
buried below the surface, the tang end describes an arc which demands a
curved recess which does not start vertically. If it does, as in the
Europa design, then there has to be a gap at the surface to prevent
interference as you move the door towards the vertical. The longer the
tang the smaller the gap, but of course the deeper recess has to be.
Purists may avoid having a gap with any length of tang by casting an
undercut lip on the fuselage recess, but the geometry is quite critical
e.g. it is important that the tang end is rounded (or starts just below
the fuselage surface) or play in the hinge will lose you the lip as you
open the door. So don't cut them shorter unless you are prepared to do
this !
gemin no.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Small quantity weighing |
If the emphasis is on really small quantities, you can use some excellent
car body repair products, which don't have critical ratios. Indeed the
more hardener you use the quicker it sets. There is even an epoxy one
with reinforcing fibre already in it, (Isopon P40 )so it doesn't slump,
and can be rock hard, yet sandable in a minute or two if you wish.
Without "approval" I have only used it for non-critical cosmetic jobs
though, e.g. that door tang gap, and fuselage defects.
My epoxy pump is still sitting on the shelf. Don't much fancy having to
clean out the cylinders, calibrating it, or coping with "water vapour
self-curing" as has been mentioned. I suppose it will have to be used to
fill the wings, but it'll be almost ready to fly by then.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Sound deadening |
Allan - you asked:
>Does anyone out there have any ideas on sound deadening materials to reduce
>interior noise levels? ... What we need to know is what has maximum
>attenuation for lowest weight, and best place to put it.
I fear that the depressing answer is LEAD! To achieve real sound
attenuation at low frequencies (and those are the ones that engines tend to
make lots of) you need mass, and preferably mass that doesn't 'ring'.
Higher frequencies can be easily attenuated by fibrous/foam materials.
These can also help make things quieter by reducing reflected energy within
the treated compartment as well as energy transmitted through whatever
bulkhead/skin they're attached to. This means they can be used with some
effect inside the cockpit as well as beyond the firewall.
I don't know what materials are suitable for the unpleasant environment in
the engine compartment - I think fire safety, etc, should take precendence
over ultimate sound deadening ability.
One thing to consider is that a certain amount of noise will enter the
cockpit from the engine via its mounts and the solid structure of the
aircraft - it would be a lot quieter if the engine was not actually
connected to the rest of the aeroplane, but that's difficult to arrange
....
Sorry to sound so unhelpful, but I don't think there's any quick fix.
Naturally I'm open to correction from anyone more versed in the science of
acoustics as it relates to aeroplanes.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Henderson" <103237.3434(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: of: Re: Small quantity weighing |
Though I was sending this out to everyone, but looks like it just went to Ian.
Though the rest of you might like to know what we're using to weigh out epoxy.
Bill
From: William R. Henderson, 103237,3434
DATE: 12/9/95 2:15 PM
RE: Copy of: Re: Small quantity weighing
Here in Atlanta, Georgia all the builders purchased a low cost digital scale to
weigh our epoxy. I purchased a Sunbeam food scale for arount $60 US and it has
an accuracy of 1/10 gram. I much prefer this over the homemade scale in the
tail kit manual and from what I've heard about the automatic dispensers the
type of epoxy we are using doesn't work well with them. Also, the instructor in
a composite building class I went to said you have to be carefull as the resin
or hardner will build up in the tubes and change the mixing ratios.
I also created a spread sheet for a quick reference to mixing amounts from 5 to
250 grams in 5 gram increments. It has columns for resin, hardner, and total
grams of mix. It's handy to use with the scales. You simply decide how much
epoxy you need ( I wouldn't suggest mixing less than 25 g.), put a mixing cup on
the scale, turn the scale on(this will zero the scale - takes into account the
weight of the cup), pour in the amount or resin you need from the spread sheet,
then pour in the hardner until the scale reads the total. Couldn't be easier,
and I feel it's more accurate than some of the other methods.
Bill Henderson
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | p and light sound deadening |
In response to recent posting about sound deadening, there are some cheap and
light partial solutions. I base some of these on spending years trying to make
a
certain model of Leyland car less noisey.
But firstly, if you have a radio/intercom then why not invest in a pair of good
headsets,ideally with active noise cancelling. Sounds obvious, I know, but lots
lighter.
A 1/8 inch hole in a bulkhead will DOUBLE the amount of perceived sound
transmitted. Therefore, making sure that the bulkhead is properly sealed will
result in a quieter cockpit and will also of course reduce the potential for
monoxide contamination.
Prevent tin-canning of flat surfaces by attaching a mass to the centre of that
surface; ie mount equipment in the centre of flat panels (yes, I know that there
aren`t many on the Europa, but the metal firewall is a good case in point).
Make sure that doors are well sealed and that the ends of the rubber door seal
are well butted and glued together. A rubber tube locally inserted into the door
seal so as to internally overlap the butt join is beneficial. Care needs to be
taken when installing the seal not to stretch it, otherwise it shrinks back and
makes a gap at the butt join (I think the manual mentions this; apologies for
repeating if it does)
My two-pennies-worth. Regards, NO 175.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
What is the 'G' rating of the Europa. This message may be a repeat, but I have
had some problems with the Compuserve program.
Also, where is the best place to plan to run the wing light wiring from the wing
root into the fuselage? Is there room between the wing root and the fuselage or
is it flush mounted?
Thanks,
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Small quantity weighing |
For the Redux batching in small quantities, why not dispense by volume from
syringes? Large oral-dose syringes available from vets or agricultural supply
outlets can take upto 100ml per fill.
The mixing ratio by volume is 100:46.
I have an epoxy ratio pump which I can thoroughly recommend for the layup
resins, however I shall not be using it for the Redux because of the potential
for the glass balls in the Redux to cause malfunction of the pump valves.
Hope this is of some use.
Regards, no. 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
To those who are flying or doing taxi-trials, how well does the brake work?
Will it hold against full throttle and approximately what force is needed on the
lever?
No 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
G Loads and lighting conduits.
I had a quick look through the Airworthiness Approval Note: PFA-220-259 dated 4
June 1993. I don't think I have seen the G Loads or design loads anywhere else
but all I can find is that proof load tests were carried out to supplement the
analysis as follows:
a). Wing symmetric loading equivalent to +4.4 g at 1,300 lb were applied
uniformly about the 1/4 chord position carried out on G-YURO (prototype) wings
with no visible or audible damage or permanent deformation.
b) Tailplane tested in symmetrical download to design limit (700 lb) without
damage or permanent distortion.
c) Engine mountings tested by applying a load of six times the engine weight in
vertical loading without damage or permanent distortion.
d) Flaps tested to 275 lb each side, design limit loading, without damage or
permanent distortion.
I guess the structure must have been designed around the requirements laid out
by JAR VLA to which the aircraft was certified.
Wing light wiring.
I asked the question of the factory a few months ago and received a very neat -
genuine Ivan Shaw sketch of a suggested position. He thought it best to lead the
wiring through the root core about 4 inches forward of the spar. I used a small
piece of tubing at the root to ensure protect against chafing - wire running
down the lightning holes to the tips. There would appear to be enough room
within the root closeout to position the connection plug. The root cores are now
supplied solid (early ones had lightening holes) so use a .75 inch hole saw
taped to a .75 inch plastic conduit or water pipe to drill the hole.
You might want to call Europa Inc. in Lakeland as they sent me some sketches
another builder had supplied them showing a Whelan Light system installation
description. Ask them to send you a copy too.
Here's a poser though! Are you allowed to fly aircraft with tinted screens at
night? I think we might need an answer (or is it just one of those scare stories
that gets banded around) as the Europa ships with tinted screens as standard.
(They do not have the problem - if there is one - in the U.K because they cannot
fly homebuilts at night).
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Brake will hold against full power, but you have to have someone sit on the
tail. We have a brake parking lock, pinched from Jon Tye, (one of the few perks
of being an inspector) just a cam which holds the brake on. Don't know about the
force, my arm isn't callibrated, 20 lbs?
BTW G-KWIP henceforth GK Whip,:-} flew on Tuesday and Thursday. Flies perfectly,
hans and phiet off straight and level. Didn't cool too well at first, oil &
coolant at 85 deg C but CHT 150. :-(. Eventually we diluted the glycol (100%) to
about 70% and the CHT came down to 116 deg at full power climb. 100% glycol is
quite viscous and doesn't conduct as well as water. Also some of the proprietary
inhibitors put a significant oxide layer on the castings which may also affect
cooling, I'm told . Then we had what might be carb icing at full power in the
rain, sounded a bit like fuel starvation from the ground, (don't think it was
Pete Clarke farting) the engine settled down at reduced power. Pete said fuel
flow increased at the time it missfired. No sensible performance figures yet but
rate of climb was about 1100 fpm at 1000lbs and 5000 rpm on the 912.
We are very pleased with the way it's going. BTW bean bags are the best seat
cushions ever! And the lightest.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Web Site/Europa Flight Test |
Greetings...
US Aviator magazine has just published our flight test of the Europa 914 to
our Internet Web Site (http://www.us-aviator.com). You can find the actual
story at
(http://www.us-aviator.com/usamag/airtests/europa.htm). Check it out and let
me know what you think of the layout and overall design... as we are just
finishing the "foundation" for the site and getting busy on adding some 600
stories, 2000 photos and 2500 links to what we hope will become the
pre-eminent aero-web site...
Jim Campbell
US Aviator magazine
http://www.us-aviator.com
________________________________________________________________________________
gk wip
there has been a problem with the fuel shutoff deal in the bing carbs. we use
the same carbs on our engines and had the same problem with carbs produced
late 94 and all 95. we are about to send out an sb on that issue.its an easy
fix.
send me your mailing adress and i send you one, or get in touch with rotax.
the way you described your experience sounds to me that that was the problem.
during all the testing we ever did, we found the only way to get a little ice
with the bings, is with a very low power setting with visible moisture ( fog)
and temp around 30f.
reiner stratus inc. fax, usa 206 784 8511
ph, usa 206 783 3845
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
Dear Graham
On behalf of everyone on the Europa List (all 185 of us) many congratulations.
I
don't doubt that you will keep us up to date with flight testing.
As the first (?) builder on the e-mail list with a Europa in the air be prepared
for many questions as to how she files :-) Where will your first expedition take
you ?
Best Wishes
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Swinden <100776.2633(at)compuserve.com> |
First of all congtrats in Spades to Graham on his first flights hope all the
others are as good. However, from that account can anyone tell me any sense or
logic in not having thermostatic control of the coolant. If Graham is running
warm this weather what happens when he goes to the South of France in mid
summer. All cars have excess cooling capacity and a thermostat to keep them up
to temperature, it is simple and works well the engine temperature is fixed at
the optimum, perfect. I fitted a stat (not fitted as standard) to my Kitfox 582
Rotax and it controlled beautifully, warmed up much quicker and then stayed on
the button whatever the weather or engine load. Can some one tell me please why
such a feature is not standard on all liquid cooled aircraft engines??? The 912
is part aircooled I know but that surely cannot be a valid reason for not
controling that part of the system that we can control?
Ron S No33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to Steven Eberhart and Alan & Pete,
>>What did the final weight come out to be? Weight of the flying surfaces?,
etc.<<
Final weight with unusable fuel was 776 lbs. Wings were about 90 lbs each I
think, tail 11. Most of the weight gain seems to be in the panel (ours topped
out at 34 lbs, to my disgust, radio and transponder were 7,) and fuselage, but
don't forget that one coat of paint may well be 10 lbs or more. Temperfoam
cushions will get you 16 lbs. Bean bag is better, safe in heavy landings, (no
bounce,) very light and more comfortable.
Graham in thank (G) the phone's working again mode. It quit halfway through a
conversation last Sunday and came back Friday. Have I missed anything?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Monu Ogbe <monu(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | rruption to AVnet service |
Dear Subscriber,
London Electriciy have warned us that they will be "...modernising obsolete
mains incoming service terminations..." in the London WC1 area tomorrow,
Sunday 14th Jan between 0800 and 1700.
We will be able to cope with power outages of up to about one hour, beyond
which our UPS will shut down the system.
We will do all we can to keep the system up, but apologise in advance for
any periods of interruption to your service during the day.
Best regards,
Monu
| monu(at)avnet.co.uk
-+- | http://www.avnet.co.uk
----(*)---- | P.O.Box 361, St. Albans, Herts, AL2 3YP
o/ \o | +44 (0)1727 868468
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>can anyone tell me any sense or logic in not having thermostatic control of
the coolant.<<
Nope. However I don't think it would have made any difference to our problem,
which I believe (today anyway) was a matter of heat transfer rates. The coolant
wasn't getting hot but the heads were. When we diluted the glycol the heads
cooled.
With regard to the air cooled barrels, I don't think they are too important,
most of the heat goes through the heads and the piston crown i.e. into the
coolant and the oil. There's another variable for you, the conductivity of the
oil might vary widely, some oil makers claim engines will run cooler with their
product. Could that be why Rotax forbid additives, which might compromise
conductivity? OTOH the air cooled bit might be there in case the coolant
disappears.
I would like someone to tell me what the coolant temp should be, and what EGT to
expect, we get 850 C or more. I'm told that is maybe too hot but no one seems
prepared to be authoritative about it. A fail safe thermostat would be nice too.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Swinden <100776.2633(at)compuserve.com> |
Thanks Graham I agree that the thermostat arrangement may only be periphial to
the issue that you were raising but the question I put has always bugged me so
I
was using your peg to hang my hat on. I always assumed that the reason for
specifying 100% oil (antifreze) was to enable the coolant to operate well above
100c without raising the pressure in the system thus enabling the heads to run
hotter than a normal water coooled engine. This is supported I think by the fact
that the book max temp is 150c so you were not ,strictly speaking, out of
limits. Adding water to the coolant will undoubtedly improve heat dissapation AT
A GIVEN TEMPERATURE but the dissapation rate is also a function of the
temperature differance so if the designer wanted his heads hot maybe 100% oil is
one way of doing it and the increased temp would tend to compensate for the
reduced unit conductivity?? Perhaps it is not too good to have too big a
difference between the hed and barrel temps?? I take it that your ref to a
"fail safe thermostat" means you would like it to fial wide open if at all, me
too but I am not sure that they are too common. RON S No 33 anyone out there
with answers please????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Our problem was that we were hitting 150 deg CHT after only a couple or three
minutes at full power; we had to drop to 4000 rpm to keep it below the limit. It
turns out that I didn't read the engine manual correctly. I read somewhere that
100 % glycol was prefered, to raise the boiling point and avoid vapour forming
at hot spots, reducing conductivity and so on. Then I studied the latest manual
which says use 80 % glycol/water.
I'm still puzzled by the low coolant temps and high CHT, unless it is simply the
poor conductivity (and high viscocity) of glycol.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
"just a pleasing shape" says the good book. Well, firstly how do you get
a pleasing shape when supplied with only one sectional view (p 10-86a)
which shows a root radius equal to the gap. This would lead to a radius
varying from almost zero at the spar, to a maximum at the leading and
trailing edges ; hardly a pleasing shape. So are we supposed to saw out
the wing root flange for constant gap ? Providing you have some flange
left everywhere this would still enable the lower bid to run from the
underside as shown, but the radius would remain quite small -not like
that seen on standard aeroplanes which seem to be from half the wing
thickness to a fuselage radius (stealth bomber) or infinity for the
flying wing. And maybe it "doesn't matter" but it would be nice if we had
a plot of the parasite drag against radius to guide us (David Dykes ?).
Going for larger than gap-radius means departing from the parallel sided
bid design, as the lower bid, if still starting from the underside of the
flange will enclose volume above the wing. Whether or not the foam is
left in here, the structure will be much more rigid, which may or may not
be a bad thing, according to whether it is needed to take up fixed gap
error, or move with wing flexing.
What have the "fliers" done ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
Gemin4.zip has been sent to the FTP. This enables the use of the
(imaginary) flap lever to add drag, pitch and stall speed changes, which
were not present with just gear operation.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
Hi Graham,
Another hard question, huh? I don't know the formula but there must be one. One
bit of related information, the sail on a nuclear sub is similar. They found
that with no fillet a vortex was formed each side which when it passed through
the prop caused noise, very characteristic noise. The fix, I'm not quite sure
but I think was some sort of vane to unwind the vortices.
No question though fillets help. I once asked Burt (messiah) Rutan if my Long
would go better with root fillets. Nah, he said, you're just increasing wetted
area. Just shows you even God isn't always right, although he's never wrong, I
hasten to add.
The best compromise must be a function of the pressure distribution round the
fuselage compared to that round the wing. a root fillet will give a gradual
pressure change plus a reduction in wetted area. OTH it could be that local
velocity (speed*direction) is the crucial factor. Now that I've found out that
it's too complicated for me to understand, I should say that we chose a 2"
radius fillet extended to the trailing edge of the flap. We haven't checked
sideslips yet but present indications are that we haven't spoilt the aircraft's
excellent handling. Pete Clarke's subjective impression so far has been that
this one feels nice. It seems to have less airframe noise too, at low speed it's
virtually silent. We haven't got the outrigger cuffs on yet,either.
Some time, when the dust settles I'll do some oil streak visualisations of the
flow round the trailing edge of the wing and maybe try and optimise the wing
fuselage transition. Might add 5 knots to the cruise.
BTW if you think 5 kts isn't worth the effort read Kent Paser's book Speed with
Economy; he improved his top speed by 64 mph (Mustang II) from 179mph without
changing the engine in any way.
None of his mods added more than a few mph.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jupa(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Jeffrey Jukes) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
In Darrol Stintons book,"The Design of the Aeroplane" At the end of
Chapter 4 (Arrangement of Surfaces) Fig 4.24 gives values for the radius
of the wing root fairing.
Taking stations across the wing chord (= C), I read it as being
Chord % 25 75
Radius of fillet 0.05C to 0.1C 0.1C to 0.2C
This then suggests a radius of approx 2" to 4" at the front of the wing
and 8" at the trailing edge.
Jeff Jukes
(Just dreaming)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | grantdes(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (John Grant) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
we chose a 2"
>radius fillet extended to the trailing edge of the flap.
Hi Graham,
Congratulations on your first flights, it gives inspiration to those of us
sanding through the bleak winter nights :-(
Perhaps nature can offer pointers to fillet ratios (dorsal fins etc) they
certainly don't have sharp corners! and probably not constant radii anyway.
BTW My query to you about trailering, I have arranged van hire and will
pick up kit next week.
Congrats again, I'm sure David Dufton will be pleased to include full
details in the next issue of the mag. ;-)
Kind regards,
John Grant.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
>Jeff Jukes
(Just dreaming) <<
Where did you read that,Jeff? 8" rad ta the back would give a very sexy looking
transition from the trailing edge of the flap :-) Looks quite nice with the 2"
rad.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
>>look at the fairing on a Spitfire or the Heinkel <<
You have an eye for pretty airplanes, Jeff. One day I might do some oil streak
visualisations round that area and slip in a bigger fillet. Too many more
pressing things to do first though. Like finish carving up the cowling and
painting it. First though will be some baseline performance figures.
Thanks for the gif file, have to find out how to unravel it now.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Fox <David(at)dfass.demon.co.uk> |
Having just joined the Mailing List, I am doing as suggested and introducing
myself.
I have been interested in the Europa since it was first announced and I have had
the information pack for some time! However, I am now getting close to taking
the plunge and buying the kit - within the next 6 months I hope. I am sure I
will then have many happy hours ahead of me and look forward to receiving help
and advice through the Mailing List.
--
David Fox
Phone +44 831 430973; Fax +44 1252 873286; E-Mail david(at)dfass.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
Thanks for all the input guys - seems that we haven't got any absolute
drage reduction figures to go on.
seems mighty optimistic - takes quite a
few horse power to do that, though of course horses add weight too - it
would be magic to get that from a lightweight change. BTW nobody actually
said if they'd gouged out the foam in the root above the wing - I'm
prepared to believe "it doesn't matter" in this case though.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1/2 VW disparity |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Dan Grunloh wrote:
(Much deleted)
....> but the
>only 4-strokes are Global or Mosler.
Just as a point of fact, Global, of Hendersonville NC went down the
pan, was bought by Mosler which eventually did a similar trick. The
engines I believe are now manufactured Hi-Tec in Long Beach FL.
Global and Mosler are therefore almost the same thing.
Globals had a problem with the Magnesium cases which often crack
and are difficult to repair. The carburettors were also prone to
falling off at inconvenient moments. (A Quickie Q1 was written off
in UK like this)
The early Moslers ie the MM-CB were (usually) very good, the design
was almost identical to the Global but the case was aluminium and
the carb bolted on. Many international championships have been won
with this engine.
The later Moslers (CB 40) were poorly developed and prone to cronic
manufacturing faults and are to be avoided with a long pole.
Of Hi Tec I know little.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lawrence A. Ross" <70244.1553(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ing list, new member |
Hello,
I first saw (or should I say "was captivated by") the Europa at Oshkosh
'95 and was very impressed, buying an info-pack on the spot. Were it not for a
rocky period in my financial affairs I would be building one now. I got the
opportunity to take a demo flight in one (G-ELSA) with Roger Sheridan back in
October as he came through Dallas and was very impressed with the flying
characteristics. Everything seems well thought out and thought through.
I understand that some customer planes are beginning to get to the flying
stage and I look forward to hearing about their progress. I am especially
interested in the various engines being tried (like the Subaru, for instance -
or the Norton Rotary) and how their varying outputs affect the aircraft's
performance.
While I don't have any real experience with Epoxy laminates (Fibreglas
is
so much easier to say, pity it's a trademark) I am quite capable in mechanical
assembly and construction [one of my former careers was as a prototype
machinist]. Consequently I look forward to discussions by people assembling
these planes and would jump at the chance to assist anyone in reasonable
proximity to Dallas, TX.
Thanks, Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
We have just had a rather hurried message via Europa from Nigel Beale, our Rotax
distributor that the max EGT of the 912F is 850 deg C. Yesterday he told us
verbally that 880 was absolute max 860 max for normal running. Our engine is a
912 UL. What I want to know is what are we supposed to do about it anyway? As I
understand it the only way is to change the main jet or metering needle. As it
happens our EGTs are running 860 or so at full throttle and 5100rpm. Does this
mean we have the wrong needle? The balance tubes are correctly placed close to
the air filters.
The only Europa 912 I've spoken to is Peter Kember who says his EGTs are around
750 C. Why so different? The only apparent difference I can think of is that we
have colder air at the Carb inlets and .024" plug gaps. Peter has an irritating
problem with his Fly Dat engine instrument. Early on he briefly exceeded the rev
limit of 5800. Fly Dat now tells him to have the engine serviced for 30 seconds
everytime he starts the engine. The only way to stop it is download the FlyDat,
which apparently has to be be done by Rotax. Anyone know the software or
whatever is needed to download?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairing - it doesn't matter ....? |
>> seems mighty optimistic - takes quite a
few horse power to do that<<
True, OTOH the drag of the airframe is very low, therefore the proportion of the
total represented by periferals like the outriggers, tailwheel, holes in the
fuselage and cooling drag is going to be much more significant than it would on
a Cessna, Piper or other machine with large built in headwind.
I am (so far) resisting the temptation to bolt on the outrigger cuffs until we
have some firm performance baseline figures. We are back in the shop for some
tiying up of minor squarks, like bending the sticks back so Pete can reach them,
they almost touch the panel at full down. Plan is to fly middle of next week,
weather God permitting.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
I have seen some (laminar flow) gliders with turb tape on the underside of
the wings, the pilots said that it was to increase performance (OK so they
wouldn't put it there to decrease it I know). But they didn't know why it
should work...can anyone offer a simple explanation? If it works on a
glider with laminar flow would it work on a Europa wing? What about the
other tricks that glider pilots with glass machines use, ie taping the
aileron/wing root/rudder etc?
Happy sanding
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, The Little Theatre St Michaels Place, Bath BA1 1SF
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | s and Tips - filling |
Hints and tips - filling
Having taken very great care with my tailplanes last year to put on a nice
smooth layer of filler with just my squeegee - and wished (after about 2 hours
of sanding it all down again) that there was an easier way of controlling the
thickness of the filler you were putting on, I tried the 'fishing line
technique' for the first time on one of my flaps and an aileron last week. It
was so successful that it is worth repeating again as well as mentioning a few
things that might prompt a bit of thought on the subject.
Firstly though, an interesting observation.
The instructions recommend that you bake all your surfaces before you fill. This
seemed a bit strange to me, as with my limited knowledge of composite
construction I had always believed that the filler would achieve a better
'molecular bond' to the 'not yet baked' skins to those that were baked first
then filled.
Another builder also thought this and contacted SP systems (manufacturers of the
epoxy). They seemed to also think that once cooked you would lose some of the
bonding properties of the epoxy. They also said that once any trapped moisture
has been baked out moisture does not ingress back in.
Question is does it matter either way?
I am baking after filling - by leaving the surfaces in my garage for a few weeks
during the summer months - last year it was a constant 40-45 deg C. Maybe as the
temperatures and humidities do not get so high/low (respectively) in the U.K and
you perhaps can only afford to bake for 24 - 48 hours in your own homemade
ovens, it is not long enough to ensure moisture evaporation from both skin and
filler layers together.
It would be interesting to get other opinions/experiences.
Back to the filling. The fishing line technique works! I used 60 lb breaking
strain (.75 mm). For those not familiar, you weigh each end of a couple of
lengths of line - each long enough to drap over the surface being filled, then
with the lines spaced apart 6 to 8 in. you slap on your filler - working it well
onto the surface (I abraded and cleaned the surfaces prior to filling as per
instructions). Then with a steel blade - I used a drywall finishing blade, you
run the blade down the 'tram lines'. Voila, the filler down between the lines is
.75mm thick. Move one line over the other another 6 - 8 in. and repeat the
process.
Very quickly you will have the surface complete although you will have to just
'close up' where the lines were by just running your sqeegee along them.
The wings should be more interesting. There are areas where there are varying
heights of skin, ie. the root area and the wingtips. I am planning on putting on
filler in stages building up the low areas first in steps of .75mm until the
final 'top coat' which should be pretty close to the final profile by then -
thus minimising sanding.
Perhaps those of you who have filled their wings are somewhat bemused by the
last paragraph - I don't think it will be as simple as perhaps I make it sound!
Still that's the plan.
A quick word about filler consistancy. There was much debate about the
wetness/dryness of filler on the forum a couple of months ago. I found that -
like the instructions said, a double whipped cream consistancy is about right -
perhaps slightly dryer. I found that if you can still stir the mix with your
'tongue depressor' mixing stick then it is probably too wet - and your thumb and
forefinger ache! I used a 1/2 in. dowel as you can get a firm grip. When it
sticks to the sides of the pot and leaves a hole in the middle thats about
right. Also, if after around 10 seconds without stirring it is just beginning to
'semi-gloss' over, that's also a good visual indication.
Too dry it will roll up behind the blade - and be too soft perhaps for a good
hard skin, too wet and it will be heavy and take forever to sand.
These are just a few thoughts and experiences I had which I thought I might
share. I would welcome any further comments.
Happy filling!
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mrr(at)prin.edu (Michael Rome) |
Hello everyone. I am a new subscriber to this list. A little bit about myself:
I reside about 25 miles north of St. Louis, Missouri, at Principia College,
in the town of Elsah, Illinois, and fly out of St.Louis Regional Airport
(ALN).
I have been flying about 3-1/2 years now and presently own a 1977 Piper
Cherokee, in which I recieved my private pilot and instrument ratings. I
have flown it about 270 hours, and it is a wonderfull aircraft. It now has
about 80 hours on a 160 hp STC conversion, but the airframe maintenance is
getting expensive...A recent AD to inspect the rear wing attach points
required alot of $ to repair...ie: steel gussets + aluminium frame +
moisture = corrosion.
I have been following the Europa since I saw an article in an aviation
magazine a few months ago. The idea of an airframe free of such nusiances
has definatly caught my intrest, as well as the single main retractable
gear, and the Europa's aerodynamic efficiancy. (It looks real sharp, too!)
It may be about 2 years before I have the time to undertake such a project,
but since I have never worked with epoxy / fiberglasss / foam I would
appreciate any comments tips and suggestions any one out there may have.
Also, has a Europa been compleated with a Subaru engine yet?
Because of my work, it is almost impossible for me to get to Oshkosh, so if
anyone may be flying an Europa through this area, please contact me at
618-374-5078; I would love to get an up close look.
Best to all.
Michael Rome ___|___
mrr(at)spectre.prin.edu |
Principia College /-\
Media Services Performance Technician O----X---\o/---X----O
Elsah, Illinois USA 62028
618-374-5078
(just north of St.Louis, accross the Mississippi)
LANDING is the 1st."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alan_j(at)supvax.sls.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Turbulator tape |
Even on a laminar flow wing the airflow tends to break away at some point. This
always causes turbulence, and, therefore, drag. It has been found that (some,
maybe all but I'm not sure) aerofoils benefit from controlling the point at
which this breakaway occurs. The resultant drag is then lower. The turbulator
strip (a long, thin strip of plastic about half and inch wide with a serrated
trailing edge) is the means to achieve controlled breakaway. I have not come
across one on the lower wing section - they are usually on the top wing at
about the three quarter chord position.
Taping up all the joints reduces parasitic, interference drag. I can't recollect
by what percentage - but it's *de rigeur* - something that no serious,
glass-ship owner would omit to do before flying. The lower performance the
glider, the less advantage there is. I suspect that the thing up the front of
the Europa responsible for the noise would negate most of the benefits.
Alan Jackson (week days in Bristol, weekends in Northants.)
PS Given the already clean aerodynamics of the Europa, I was somewhat surprised
to find that the motorglider wing design has an L/D of only 24:1. The now rather
ancient and slow (60-65 knot cruise) Ventures (ex ATC version of the
Motorfalke in tube, wood and fabric) are rated at 22:1 and not terribly useful
for soaring (I know, I've tried!). The Grob 109 has an L/D of well over 30:1...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SIMON LONGSTAFF <100647.1543(at)compuserve.com> |
please send all archived messages
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interesting 1/2 VW disparity |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Whoops, sent this message to the wrong list, sorry for the
confusion.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbulator tape |
Glider wing profiles (and now also those on the elevator) are designed to
provide a maximum of laminar flow distance over the chord line. For that
reason, they are quite prone to the laminar flow to separate from the wing
surface and form a "separation bubble" that than attaches itself again to the
wing some ways down the stream lines and change to turbulent. The net effect
is, that a substantial drag increase in noticed. In order to avoid the
separation bubble, turbuators (either blow holes in the wing supplied with ram
air or zig-zag tape) are employed to change the air flow to turbulent in a
forced manner. Overall, the wing will have less drag over most of the gliders
speed range. Gliders are flown very slow (40-45 knots) in thermals and quite
fast (80-110 knots) wnen "running" between thermals. Over this speed range a
marked reduction in drag is noticeable. At the VNE speed of around 150 knots,
they will increase the overall drag.
These days, turbulators also appear near the trailing edge of the rudder and on
the inside and outside of winglets on gliders.
With wind tunnel or oil flow testing it could be determined if laminar flow
separation exists for the Europa wing. Here in the US, Dr. Richard Johnson has
devised some clever in-flight testing methods for gliders to determine the
overall drag over the speed range. He is well known here to determine the
effectiveness for turbulators at different locations of the wing. His methods
might not be applicable to testing the Europa, the power lever messes things
up...
Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbulator tape |
>>I was somewhat surprised
to find that the motorglider wing design has an L/D of only 24:1.<<
It's a compromise, as usual. The biggest problem is persuading the existing tail
feathers to work with the long wing, as I understand it.
I have seen turbulator tape on the underside of the wing, at about 85% chord.
Helps to get rid of a laminar separation bubble. Be interesting to see if taping
the ailerons etc will have a measurable effect on Europa, won't it?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax FlyDat |
In message <960119000532_100421.2123_BHG61-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, Graham
Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> writes
>We have just had a rather hurried message via Europa from Nigel Beale, our Rotax
>distributor that the max EGT of the 912F is 850 deg C. Yesterday he told us
>verbally that 880 was absolute max 860 max for normal running. Our engine is a
>912 UL. What I want to know is what are we supposed to do about it anyway? As
I
>understand it the only way is to change the main jet or metering needle. As it
>happens our EGTs are running 860 or so at full throttle and 5100rpm. Does this
>mean we have the wrong needle? The balance tubes are correctly placed close to
>the air filters.
Be careful to compare like with like, density altitude must be brought
into the equation. For instance if you were doing your air testing on a
1030mb 5degC day you will way off standard day especially if you were
operating at lower altitudes. Most of the flyable days these past weeks
have been pretty non standard where the "sea level" has been a few
thousand feet up.
Aside from that check you haven't got manifold airleaks, low fuel
pressure or a too fine set prop any one of which will push up EGTs.
One also assumes the probes are in the right position.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbulator tape |
In message <v01530501ad249ec2bd81@[193.122.159.50]>, Ian Seager
writes
>I have seen some (laminar flow) gliders with turb tape on the underside of
>the wings, the pilots said that it was to increase performance (OK so they
>wouldn't put it there to decrease it I know). But they didn't know why it
>should work...can anyone offer a simple explanation?
I would guess that it was there to effect re-attachment during the
penetration phase of gliding ie. at low AOA rather than for the soaring
phase. Transition on the bottom side generally occurs a little way aft
of the top side making the critical Reynolds number higher. Maybe
someone found that by introducing some form of boundary layer control
the mainstream flow could be increased slightly before reaching the
critical Re thus improving the penetration speed. Don't forget that high
aspect ratio glider wings operate with much lower Reynold numbers than
most powered planes and can often be operating around critical values of
Re.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | zeus(at)myth.demon.co.uk (Mike Cowgill) |
| Subject: | Re: Bits 'n' Bobs |
Just some bits 'n' bobs that don't really justify separate messages:
Turbulator Tape:
It works by actually invoking turbulence. The turbulence is at a microscopic
level and is effectively minute vortices rolling across the surface. Because
it is regular and not chaotic it produces a nice smooth flow which is
effectively laminar (or approximates closely to it). I suspect it works best
at relatively low speeds because as the speed increases the energy (and the
size) in the vortices increases and they eventually become chaotic and
attempt to break away. Then again, if you are on an efficiency run, you won't
be thrashing along at high speed.
The basic thinking is that if you are going to get turbulent flow, invoke it
yourself and control it.
(I knew those postgrad non-linear systems lectures would be useful somewhere!)
Thoughts on Drag:
I know the drag force approximates to the square of the speed, but is
it linear or square function of the Cd? If it is a square function, then
messing around getting all those joints extra smooth and using exotic PTFE
coatings is almost certainly worth it. I calculate that a 1% reduction in
drag would give just over 2% improvement in max speed and economy. I don't
have any appropriate books here to check, so this may be totally erroneous.
To Cure or Not to Cure? (or at least related to it)
This may be suggested in the documents, but Maplin Electronics (and, no doubt
many other retailers) do digital thermometers/hygrometers with max/min
memories and are a very reasonable price. While you are curing epoxies etc.,
it might be useful to find out if it has been suscepted to any undue thermal
or humidity based environmental stress.
Mike
P.S. Any chance of a weekly or monthly electronic diary report for us Europa
wannabees?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax FlyDat |
another thing to consider. when taking in the air behind the radiators its
quite a bit warmer then the outside air. its like having carbheat on all the
time, which means its running richer,and the egt is lower. it made
considerable difference on my c150 installation after i changed it.i gained
about 4 hp which isnt much but every bit helps.
isnt grahams installation using outside air for induction?
reiner stratus inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbulator tape |
Alan, I beg to disagree!
Only the bottom surfaces of gliders are "turbulated", on the top wing the point
of change from laminar to turbulent flow is too dependent of the angle of attack
and moves substantially front and aft with speed changes. Have another look the
next time you are at a glider port.
Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Swinden <100776.2633(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ING LINE FILLING |
Martin Tuck sugested that he would fill the lower parts of his wings ect first
and build up from there. I would suggest you think again Martin. I started that
way when I developed the fishing line tech' but found that every time you put
filler on filler the resin migrates at the edges of the patch and makes it
difficult to lose the join edge. Eventually I concluded that the best way is to
try and fill the whole wing in one hit so I routed the fishing lines over the
highest spots and then, hopefully! you get away with one big sand down that has
no joints. Saves muti mixes and I think time and material in the end and is no
heavier. Recomend the vacuum sander tech tho that I wrote up in the Flyer mag it
certainly keeps the dust down. Ron S No 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
We just found out that our Grand Rapids "Engine Information System" can be
persuaded to download information to a portable PC so who needs Fly Datwith its
built in spy. Greg Tomin at Grand Rapids is a real nice guy and seems to know
what he talks about.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Beers <101321.612(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | I Intoduce Myself? |
Hello
I have subscribed to this list because I think the Europa is the best Group A
aircraft around and I want one! I am not planning to build one because
unfortunately I can't even build an Airfix kit successfully, so I am hoping to
by a ready built one (although why anybody would sell one I don't know?).
I currently have group A and SLMG licences and fly a Fournier RF4 out of Enstone
UK and Cessna 152s out of Leicester.
Gary Beers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D Powell <100555.3601(at)compuserve.com> |
My name is David Powell a student pilot from Walsall, West Midlands, England.
I have an interest in all aspects of the Europa and Hope to purchase a kit
later this year.
With this in mind is there any one near the West Midlands that is currently
building a Europa who would allow me to visit with a view to gaining first hand
advice on the project.
Also as I am new to "The net" I have read an article that mentioned a Magazine
that is available to do with the Europa. Can some one please let me have details
on
Thanking You All
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dept of Textiles <isaac.porat(at)umist.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | pa Tail for Sale |
Europa Tail for Sale
----------------------------
Resin operations completed and inspected, hinges and torque tube
drilling were left to be completed on final assembly.
Reason for sale: I am one of the very few builders (may be the only one)
who developed respiratory problems due to the resin, they last for approx.
2 days after coming in contact with the resin. Wearing a mask helps, but
especially at the temperatures required is not a great fun !
If you are interested call Isaac Porat at Home: 01477 - 532448
or Work: 0161-2004152
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ashley <J.D.Ashley(at)durham.ac.uk> |
Dear Europa mailing list,
I fall into category 5 of the mailing list - no time or money to build a
plane (though I do have the space). If things look up I might start being
serious next year.
I am also an aeromodeller - as I am sure many of us are or were - and the
Europa makes an attractive subject, albeit tricky in some areas. I have the
information pack and video, are any three view drawings available?
Any local builders who could do with a hand are welcome to contact me - I
live in Co Durham.
John Ashley
J.D.Ashley(at)durham.ac.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
Hello Gary, David and John,
welcome to the 'electronic europa', if you do decide to take the
plunge there are a lot of useful tips in the archives and probably still to
come. Several planes are now flying and we hope to get some idea of kit
performance come the better flying weather.
There are copies of the Europa Aviation newsletter in these archives
if thats what you mean, David, or was it about Flyer that recently did a large
article on the the plane and company.
if you need convincing its worth finding the pennies, take a test
flight in one of the companies planes - enjoy!
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john_ellerington(at)uk.ibm.com |
| Subject: | tings and Information |
---- Mail Item Text Follows
From: John Ellerington
Subject: Greetings and Information
Just a note to introduce myself - I'm only an interested spectator at
this stage - I've got to rebuild my garage before I can even consider
constructing an aircraft. I hold a PPL(H) but haven't used it for a
few years due to mortgage expenses. The Europa seems like a cost
effective alternative with most of the flexibility of a helicopter
(flying from farm strips rather than expensive airfields especially).
I notice from the latest PILOT magazine that there are a couple of
part-finished Europas for sale - the details are:-
1) Wings, tail complete. Fuselage started. Instruments, Rotax 912
available separately. 01505 842721.
2) Complete airframe, painted, ready for engine, with trailer
01584 811183.
Hope this will be of interest, HAPPY LANDINGS to all!
***************************************************************
John Ellerington
SuperMIX Project team
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)evansville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, John Ashley wrote:
> Dear Europa mailing list,
[snip]
> I am also an aeromodeller - as I am sure many of us are or were -
and the
> Europa makes an attractive subject, albeit tricky in some areas. I have the
> information pack and video, are any three view drawings available?
I too plan on building an Europa and build radio controlled models. I am
designing a 40% scale Europa with Rutan wet layup fuselage and Europa
style hot wired foam flying surfaces. The reason for the exercise is to
work out the details of vacuum bagging the flying surfaces. I really
think that vacuum bagged wet layup construction is a better way to go.
I have tried to buy the Berkut construction videos that detail the vacuum
bagging technique but they won't even return my e-mail enquiries. I
bought the tail plane manual fron Europa and have every published article
I could find for scale documentation. I have been trying to get the
airfoil coordinates for the wing and tail but havn't been successful
there yet. I hope to be able to put my deposit down for my 100% scale
kit in March. I might have better luck getting the airfoil coordinates
after I have put up the earnest money for the kit. In all fairness to
Europa I havn't contacted Ivan directly for the coordinates but will
shortly.
The tail plane manual has a three view. I would be glad to scan it and
put it on my home page if you would like.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
In message , Steven A Eberhart
writes
>
>I too plan on building an Europa and build radio controlled models. I am
>designing a 40% scale Europa with Rutan wet layup fuselage and Europa
>style hot wired foam flying surfaces.
>
Whilst there is obvious pleasure in making the model as close a
representation to the real thing it may be better to stick with a
section profile known to provide good scale model handling particularly
near the stall.
A Europa wing foil scaled to 40% will have a tip chord of something like
405mm which at approach speeds of say 14 m/sec (40mph) resulting in a
Reynold number of around 375,000 at the tip and about 470,000 at the
root, well critical for that kind of section. Boundary layer flow and
separation bubbles get very complicated below Re 500,000 especially on
foils with favourable pressure gradients extending so far aft as on the
Europa foil.
You may consider using a well documented turbulent section, eg.
NACA2415, which may provide broadly similar lift coefficient and
pitching moments though at the expense of some additional cruise drag.
I would hate to think that all your hardwork might get dashed to bits on
the first outing.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
For anyone about to move the angled pipe fittings in the water pump housing,
Rotax tell me these will move at about 80-90 degrees C. If the worst happens and
you damage them and need to replace, use LOCTITE 648.
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dufton(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (David Dufton) |
| Subject: | pa Mail: New Subscriber |
Yet another new subscriber to the Europa page, though a long-time builder
(no 16)of G-OURO, seen "nearly ready to fly" at Cranfield 1995. Well, 'RO
is still nearly ready to fly, but is waiting for the completion of the
flight test program to G-NDOL, Graham Brunwin's and Melvin Cross's
Subaru-powered Europa before I can continue in their footsteps. The first
stages of their flight test program have gone really well, the Subaru EA-81
engine performing superbly, giving initial cruise speeds at around 135 knots
and at rpm well
below max.
As a number of you may already know, I have the dubious honour of being the
editor of the Europa Flyer, the quarterly magazine of the Europa Club, and
as such am always on the look-out for suitable and interesting articles to
bring the Flyer up to Booker-prize-nomination standard. W.H.Y? (Whilst I
can print internet-style articles straight from the Europa page, these are
burdened with all the "handshaking"/address mumbo jumbo of course, so I
would much prefer to have something properly typed-up & ready for direct
copying, or on disk in a Word for Windows format).
Thanks in advance for all the exciting contributions I know I will now be
inundated with - David Dufton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa Mail: New Subscriber |
Reply to David Dufton,
Welcome, David. Why did it take you so long to get here? Have you moved yet?
Reply to Rolph Muller.
I'm very surprised that such a low temp will melt the loctite in the water pump
distributor. The coolant on GK Whip gets up to that sort of figure, although it
goes through the radiators before it gets to the pump.
A useful tool to grip the pipes is a 10mm (I think) Rawlbolt. Grind the
circumference of the tapered bolt head till it will fit inside the tube, then
carefully tighten until the barrel spreads enough to grip the tube. Then heat
the joints (one at a time) quickly but carefully :-? until the Loctite lets go
and turn the pipe to the desired position. A leather glove will be needed. A
good heat gun is best, failing that a plumbers gas burner. The important thing
is to use a lot of heat evenly get the whole joint hot. Too little heat applied
will be lost in the body of the casting, overheating parts while still not
getting all of the joint hot enough. Be confident and go for it.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Installation |
.....ha ha ! maybe the Loctite
softens ,but my vice was catching fire and no movement could be induced
using grips on the outside of the tubes. I had to insert a close fitting
rod in the pipe and tap (thump) the end with an 8kg hammer. Luckily the
tubes and casting are not brittle and appear to have survived the
process. Doesn't mangle the outside of the tubes either.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
Has anyone considered using a Subaru Legacy engine? Even though it is heavier,
it is quite a bit more powerful for about the same money. Am I crazy for even
exploring this option. Oh, I forgot, I am crazy. I am building a single wheel,
homebuilt airplane. How soon we forget.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
larry, its a lot heavier. its 185 for the ea81 and it looks like the legacy
is around 265 pounds. the dimensions are not much more then the little one,
so it might fit.
are you interested in winning a roc competition?
reiner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hartley Heaton <100637.1712(at)compuserve.com> |
I have been receiving mail since late December, only just got around to posting
a message.
I have been looking at the Europa for the past 12-18 Months, got the video, and
have been up with Pete Clark in YURO.
I can not convince myself that I am capable of building one and having monitored
the mail over the last month my confidence has not been boosted in the
slightest.
If there is anyone in the Reading area who is in the process of building and
could put up with a visit I would like to hear from them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Installation |
>>these will move at about 80-90 degrees C>.....ha ha ! maybe the Loctite
softens ,but my vice was catching fire and no movement could be induced
using grips on the outside of the tubes.<<
Not surprised. This is the method I used. A 10mm Rawlbolt will just fit in the
tubes if you grind the edge of the bolthead down a bit. Then carefully tighten
the nut so that the barrel expands and grips the tube. Then you need to melt the
Loctite. The trick that worked for me was to use plenty of heat evenly, getting
each joint in turn hot as fast as possible, before the heat can spread through
the casting. The Loctite lets go quite suddenly. Cool between each heating so
that only the joint being worked on gets hot. Afterwards run in new Loctite.
Same technique works when you have to get the wing pins out to do the mod. It's
essential to us a lot of heat, too little just causes local overheating and
dissipates too fast to melt the adhesive.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Has anyone considered using a Subaru Legacy engine?<<
Problem is the weight. What goes on the engine has to come off the useful load,
one of the big pluses of the design. Even the EA81 is really a bit too heavy. At
first try it needed 15lbs of lead in the tail. Goes extremely well, though, on
118 hp.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mrt001(at)lion.connect.more.net (Paige Hereford) |
| Subject: | lightweight accelerometer |
HCI has developed a new affordable ($75 incl. shipping) lightweight
accelerometer. It is a vertical scale instrument (7/8" x 4") that attaches
to the panel with double adhesive tape. It reads +8 to -4 G. It does not
have statistical pointers. For more information contact me
(mrt001(at)mail.connect.more.net). Thanks!
Paige
I contacted the owner of this list and this message was approved.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bean <72016.641(at)compuserve.com> |
I have just manage to get my Acorn PC600 computer to talk down the telephone -
after a few frustrating days pulling out my hair over it and the dreadful
Win/DOS etc operating system.
I am building Europa kit 23 G-VPSJ. So far have completed kit 1 and 75% of kit
2
(kit 3 is hovering in Mother-in-Law's garage and being looked at!).
I am a Flight Engineer and have to spend some time away from home which slows
down the progress quite a bit, along with the normal domestic scene! However I
hope to speed up the work during this year.
So far I do not know how to get any news items out of this system - but I'm
working on it! :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: New(ish) Subscriber |
Don't worry - the more traffic you see about problems the more solutions
become available. Its quite clear to the early builders that there are
disadvantages in being early. The factory is probably too close to the
subject to write a manual to suit everyone, and they don't have as many
examples (or time or staff!) as the builders, to establish the absolute
best way to do things.
Perhaps we are approaching the time when an early "completer" will adopt
the task of writing a new manual to while away his new found hours,
incorporating (with factory approval) all the good things which the avnet
has generated. After all he can't fly it all the time. We would then
maybe get it on disc, and be able to have an index too !.
gemin
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Installation |
As it's Redux there rather than Loctite, I am surprised you can melt it
at all. I didn't have to remove mine but experimenting on leftover Redux
,it was charring before it softened ! I reckon if you flew your Europa
through the sun's corona, the Redux bits would be the only things that
come out the other side intact.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gwengl(at)hivnet.fhcrc.org |
| Subject: | is Cranfield Show? |
I am trying to schedule a trip to the UK and hoped to be able to link it with
the Cranfield (sp???) Show. Does anyone know when this happens?
Gwen Glaefke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ling Edge Finish |
On the trailing edges on the bottom side of the stabilator there is the area
where the top and bottom meet. The bottom has a curve. Should you finish this
so there is no curve or merely fill the weave in as in other places?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timothy Whittome <100552.2605(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi,
This is Tim Whittome from Aviemore in Scotland. I have recently (a few months
ago) purchased Bill Wynn's first Europa project and am now builder no 51!
Wings and tail were just about complete (bar filling) when I took over the
project and I collected the fuselage kit from the factory in September.
Progress has been very slow due to pressure of work (the sort that earns the
daily bread) but inspector John Horsfall from Inverness has looked at the
workshop and checked out the chock that I thought it would be sensible to try.
Apart from that I'm a fairly recent PPL with just over 100 hours in the log and
a 1/15 share in a Piper Warrior at Inverness - G-BHJO.
I'm looking forward to hearing how everyone else is progressing and am keen to
get any tips I can.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: When is Cranfield Show? |
According to the PFA 96 Year Planner, Cranfield is on the 5th 6th and 7th of
July this year.
Don't miss the Europa Club AGM. I'm not sure what arrangements are this year but
the last two years the meeting has been at 5.00 pm on the Saturday (6th).
Best Wishes
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Hull" <HULLHOUSE(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | another introduction |
After reading the recent spate of introductions, I realized I had forgotten to
send one in, even though I have been on line for about two months. Since it
is about -9 F outside now, sitting in front of this expensive TV is not a bad
place to be.
I have been following the Europa since it was first announced in the US
several years ago. Last April, I got to see it first hand at our Sun 'N Fun
and talk to Ivan Shaw. I was hooked! In July, a deposit was placed for a
kit, with a delayed delivery option. I had to have time to complete the
rebuild of my Avid that had a rather nasty encounter with a log during an
unscheduled off-field landing. That task having been completed, I am looking
forward to spring and picking up the kit at this year's Sun 'N Fun. After
reading through the accumulated correspondence since last July, it looks like
the project will be sometimes challenging, but always interesting,
Sorry about the rather long winded intro, but it is coming from the Windy
City. Me? I am an electrical engineer with Outboard Marine Corp, (makers of
Johnson, Evinrude outboards). Have a private license and fly strictly for
fun. This project will be taken on with some assistance from my son, who will
be completing his second year in mechanical engineering studies. Should be a
great learning experience for both of us.
Jim Hull - Chicago
US builder A016
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | r Pump Refitting |
If like me, you didn't do what you were supposed to and didn't note which bolts
came from where, then you may need to know the following. The two long bolts are
no problem, however the short ones may give you some head scratching. They are
not exactly the same, although they are the same length and the one with the
copper washer, which in also of a different material, should be fitted at the 6
o'clock position. I only know this having had a most unhelpful response from
Cyclone - Neville at Europa was however good enough to drag a virgin engine out
of a box - they didn't realise it either.
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: When is Cranfield Show? |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
Jul 5 - 7 Cranfield PFA 50th Anniversary Rally and Exhibition.
The biggest homebuilt and vintage fly-in in Europe. Microlights welcome.
Arrive Friday to avoid the rush.
More info on http://www.hiway.co.uk/aviation/pfaiar.html
Please contact PFA Office for arrival procedure details and display
closure times.
Phone 01273-461616 Fax 01273-463390
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | r Pump Refitting |
>>had a most unhelpful response from Cyclone<<
Haven't we all. It would seem Nigel begrudges the discount Europa have
negociated. He should remember he wouldn't have any of those sales if it wasn't
for Europa, let alone the thousands of Ls worth of spares that are going to be
bought. He needs to get his tealeaves read. In fact I shall buy my spares in the
US if he doesn't change.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | s and Tips - Bowed foam blocks |
Hints and Tips -Bowed foam blocks
Regular readers might remember I had a problem with my leading edges. The
internal stresses in the foam resulted in a slight bow to the centre and tip L.E
cores - not by much - perhaps 1/8th inch but enough to be noticable when you
look along the L.E.
Come layup time, extra care just needs to be taken to ensure the cores are kept
straight - although I found that the nature of the bi-axial cloth bending over
the L.E tends to naturally straighten the cores anyway. Just keep checking with
a nice long straight edge.
The trailing edges were not too bad - I guess they are that much thicker. On the
port side it all looked straight as it was being put together but now I can
stretch a thread of cotton between the root core/flap T.E and the tip T.E, I
have found that the outrigger rib is actually a little too high (i.e has little
more washout than it should) and that the flap/aileron - as you sight along the
T.E is 'kinked' by about 1/8th inch.
Anybody else willing to own up to this?
I don't know what the tolerance is - and I doubt if it will have any effect on
the flying characteristics - but for the starboard wing I am using a simple
method of ensuring that the trailing edges do remain straight as you progress
through the bottom T.E skin and flap/aileron closeout layups which I would like
to share with you. This hopefully will ensure that all your wings are 100
%straight!
The instructions say that as you bond the T.E cores to the spar that you should
ensure straightness 'by sighting along it'. I think that because the T.E cores
still have their 'funny foam joggles' attached at this stage - and in my case
particularly on the starboard wing they were slightly bowed too - that you
should use a straight edge of some form.
I went to my local lumber strore and got then to cut me some 2.5 inch wide
strips of 1/4 inch hardboard (or better still plywood). These were 6 foot long.
Getting them to cut them on their circular saw ensured a nice straight edge.
In the center of one I drill a 1/16 inch hole down the centerline every 6 to 8
inches, in the other strip the holes were offset from one side by about 1/2
inch.
Using the slot which will become the flap trailing edge as a sight guide, I
fixed the first straight edge using 1.5 inch long finishing nails into the 'foam
joggles' which will eventually get cut off. The tip T.E strip I shortened
slightly, then fixed it to the 'foam joggle' ensuring it was lined up with the
trailing edge too.
You will find that they certainly aid your sighting of the T.E's and help keep
everything straight as you do your layups.
By the time you do your top skin layup the trailing edge will be stiff enough
not to worry anymore - but just keep an eye on the bottom skin aileron close-out
(the one not supported) it is quite easy to bend it out of shape during the
layup process.
Hope this helps anyone who is about to start on their wings. (The leading edge
layups took me just over 6 hours to do - thank goodness for slow setting
hardener - and bi-axial cloth)!
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | ing the fuselage halves |
Mike Costin (in Europa Flyer Issue 7) suggests a better method than
clecos for adding the cockpit module ( almost anything is better than
clecos). However its not so easy to put things on the inside when joining
the fuselage halves. Use long 2" strips of hardboard or ply tacked onto
the inside by a few self-tappers below the overlap region, (and provided
with polythene sheet for easy release) before the top is positioned. Some
temporary wooden cross strips across the upper half can be used to spread
the edges out a bit, so that the Redux is not pushed down as you lower
it on. You can then insert self tappers through the overlap into
something solid anywhere you like (remembering to grease them first !). A
refinement is to use an outer strip positioned above the external join
line so that the join is squeezed from both sides to avoid waviness.
However this makes it more difficult to spot any bulgy bits unless you
proceed in sections. Continuous strip probably leads to the use of fewer
holes and a much tighter fit everywhere.
I also found my top half apparently shorter than the bottom half by about
1/2" giving poor overlap at the rising part ahead of the tail section.
Fixing a temporary protruding bolt on forward bit of the fin root enabled
a rope to be placed round it and then round the back of the lower half.
Winding this loop up removed most of the difference and ensured the fit
was pretty tight even before the operation started.
gemin no.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | u99288(at)kb.be (Simon Townsend) |
| Subject: | Re: Fitting the fuselage halves |
> I also found my top half apparently shorter than the bottom half by about
> 1/2" giving poor overlap at the rising part ahead of the tail section.
> Fixing a temporary protruding bolt on forward bit of the fin root enabled
> a rope to be placed round it and then round the back of the lower half.
> Winding this loop up removed most of the difference and ensured the fit
> was pretty tight even before the operation started.
>
> gemin no.83
>
Only an interested observer (at the moment) but do you mean that you
streched one half to meet the other and then bonded them? Wouldn't
this leave an awful lot of stress in the structure? Perhaps I
misunderstood what you wrote?
Simon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ering your brake/puncture problem |
>>Also the proximity to the rudder cable would change. <<
It's the rudder cable that causes all the trouble here. You would have to
reverse the calliper, see where it went when the gear was retracted, then find
a
way to reroute the cable. I usually bleed with the calliper in my hand. (pun :-}
) Connect a large syringe to the bleed nipple, hold it low and pump fluid in
with a clamp or something to stop the piston popping out. The air is pushed to
the top. In fact if you let the piston nearly come out, fill, then push the
piston in there's an even better chance all the air will go to the top.
With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I would put the rudder cable inside 3/16"
nylaflo and BID it to the side of the tunnel to keep it out of mischief.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone know the progress of Europa's progress on the reduction drive for
the BMW engine? Does anyone have any?!?! details at all, ie. gear or belt,
approximate weight of drive and drive+ engine, or wild estimate for retail of
drive? Most importantly, can I get an e-mail address or phone number for a
point of contact who would know more about this project?
I would apprieciate on this subject. Thank you.
Thom Besch
Kansas, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Fitting the fuselage halves |
I doubt if it was originaly physically shorter as the mould would
presumably have ensured that it wasn't. But it certainly sat on the
bottom half in a way that gave a shortfall at the tail. I guess the top
was convoluted somewhat and the pull straightened it out. Then the
clamping and self tapping followed by the Redux maintained it all in the
new flatter position, without the need for tensional stress.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello everyone
The January 96 archive of the mailing list messages is now available to browse
on the Web. (Follow the links from http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa ). These
are the links available. If you have any suggestions how to improve this list
they are as always very welcome.
1. How to Join The Europa Club
2. How to Join The Europa Internet Mailing List
3. View Archived Messages from The Europa Internet Mailing List
4. The Europa on Michael Kraus's Homebuilt Home Page
5. Who has Registered their Europa ? courtesy of the General Aviation Server
6. Europa Aviation Factory Newsletters
7. Europa Builders Page
8. Europa Flight Test from US Aviator Magazine
If you do not have access to the web you can always just request the list to
send you a text version of the archives by sending a message to
europa-request(at)avnet.co.uk the subject does not matter but the message
should contain the words..... get europa europa.9601
Don't forget to have a look at the europa ftp site. If any of you have any
digitised photos or diagrams etc that you would like to share you can put them
here. (Even better, why not create a Web page) The address is....
ftp.avnet.co.uk The europa directory is in the pub directory.
I know some of you will think I'm repeating myself but I have included the above
for the benefit of our new subscribers. Following recent publicity in Flyer and
then Pilot we have seen a big increase in new members. The list currently has
about 210 subscribers.
Best Wishes
Peter Thomas
Builder 191
(Just started on the wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Create your own web page ... |
January Archive
<< (Even better, why not create a Web page) >>
I get lots of calls from my chums back in the U.K asking 'How's the Europa
going'? So a web page would be a great idea ... only one problem ...
how do you go about creating a web page then?
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | to create a web page |
Martin Tuck wrote: < So a web page would be a great idea ... only one problem
...
how do you go about creating a web page then?>
Martin, Compuserve will give you home page space up to 1 meg for no charge.
The easiest way to build the page(s) is to download their "Home Page Wizard"
tool. It reduces simple web page creation to a point and click operation. The
Wizard will also upload the pages for you. I think you can get to it with "go
internet." You will also need to register a user name that you can use in
addition to your user number. I think that process is at "go register."
I've downloaded the home page tool, but have not posted a page. I've used
it to create a local page for my browser so that it doesn't activate the dialer
as soon as I load it (my browser home page now points to an html file on my hard
drive).
A great and inexpensive beginning html reference is "HTML Visual Quick
Reference," by Dean Scharf, QUE book,ISBN 0-7897-0411-0. It covers the basics
of manually building html files and how they work.
There's lots of other ways to do this. MS Word, for instance, has an add-on
called the Internet Assistant that is available for free on CIS or from many
BBS's. In fact, its probably not to long until native word processors and the
current web coding format are one and the same.
But, all the above is just and excuse to talk about Europas. Where are you
building yours? Garage?...
!
*********************************************************************
Larry Portouw, Major, US Army, Tampa, Florida
72170.1636(at)compuserve.com -or- portouwl(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
You can still do something like that if you use a plastic binder so that
you can pop in the cable from the top, or just split your tube and hold
it closed it with whatever fixing you use. If these guides force any
significant deflection there would be always be wear at the ends to be
watched though eh ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Swinden <100776.2633(at)compuserve.com> |
Just a quickey While you still Have the top off the fus' and before you decide
that the LA mod is not worth the bother put the top on temporarily and sit in
your pride and joy dressed for the great outdoors (freezing airfield!) and try
wagling the stick and pumping the rudder pedals. The mod is not about L A's but
it is about shoulder room.G Night Ron S. No 33 Thought. If you need the mod to
accomodate your A suggest you Buy a crop spraying A'craft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
>>If these guides force any significant deflection there would be always be wear
at the ends to be watched though eh ?<<
Yes there would, the way round that would be to arrange the ends to be
undeflected. Probably also leave the last few inches of the Nylaflo unattached
and free to float. If wear were expected the Nylaflo could be made replaceable
by sleeving it in tube the next size up , then it can be slipped out and a new
piece slipped in. It would have to be split, of course.
BTW When the gear is retracted the right hand cable is only just above the brake
calliper and very close to the brake hose. When making all these adjustments
make sure the gear goes to the highest position it's likely to in service.
Adjusting the preload on the rubber block will raise the gear another half inch.
I had to deflect the cable slightly when I finally set the preload.
On reflection I'm even more inclined to sleeve the cables with Nylaflo, it will
prevent them from sawing there way through whatever else they might touch, like
brake lines and fuel lines.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Magnuson" <Magnum_IP(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | y for another loop? |
This message for Ivan Shaw.
Dear Ivan, Greetings from Dallas. I graduate on May 4th, 1996. Hope to
get my
Long EZ back in the air early this summer. It hasn't flown in over five years
now. How are you? Regards, Peter C. Magnuson N27PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> |
Hi Flyers and potential flyers,
It is great to have a www site dedicated to the Europa. This means that I can tell
you about the South East London Flying Group`s project as it develops. At
present there two of us, hopefully becoming five as we find new recruits to
share costs, construction and flying time. So if anyone out there has suitable
skills, dedication, and the financial ability to see this project through to
the end
please contact me.
We will be starting the project in three months in a workshop near Sydenham, in
southeast London.
Interested???????
Please contact Eddie or Bill (bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk)
________________________________________________________________________________
Timothy Whittome <100552.2605(at)compuserve.com>
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk (Wynne) |
hi Tim
good to hear from you. Like you I am flat out - just back from the South
through 2ft snowdrifts - it took seven hours!
anything I can do to help I will (if it doesn't take toooo much time) eg
contacts. for example (one of) the greatest authorities on Europas is
Graham Singleton in case you have a really tough question.
off for a whiskey!
all the best
bill
Bill Wynne Europa 40 bill(at)wynne.co.uk tel: +44 (0) 1654,710101/2/3
Located N52 36.72 W004 04.53. Talybont, Tywyn. Gwynedd LL36 9LG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | plawless(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (P J Lawless) |
| Subject: | Re: New(ish) Subscriber |
>If there is anyone in the Reading area who is in the process of building and
>could put up with a visit I would like to hear from them.
>
>__
Hartley
Just got back from holiday and I dont see any reply to your request for a
visit. I am down in Bath about an hour from Reading you would be welcome to
come down for a look. I am in the early stages of the kit 3. Wings and
tail done and filled.
If you would like to come down send me a contact phone number and we can get
something sorted.
Cheers
Pete Lawless No 109
_________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Finish |
Trailing Edge Finish:
Last week you wrote <>
I don't recall you getting an answer to this so I will tell you what I have done
...
By trailing edge curve I assume you mean the trailing edge closeout - that
little joggle where the top an bottom skins meet. If that is what you mean, yes
I have filled mine - when I filled the rest the surface with filler. You might
want to note that it is tempting to sand it down to a nice 'knife' edge. You
might want to check previous correspondance explaining why you shouldn't but
suffice to say that a nice sharp edge like that will probably result in flutter.
It was recommended that all trailing edges (flaps and ailerons too) should be
about 1/8th inch thick - rounded I guess to smooth the appearance. We ought to
seek a directive on this from the factory as I think its quite an important
point ... are you out there Roger in Florida? Or someone from the factory?
Hope the wing building is progressing well.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
Has anyone used AeroPoxy Lite filler or Superlite filler. Alexander recommended
Superlite as an easy to use filler that is lighter than mixing the AeroPoxy and
balloons. Any advice or experience?
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hints and Tips - Bowed foam blocks |
To lend weight to your posting, I fully agree that sight alone is no way to
ensure straight trailing edges, or straight anything. Having invested early-on
in a 2m steel straight-edge, it is the one tool I could not live without.
Duncan. no 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Water Pump Refitting |
Re. Cyclone "reluctance": Roll-on alternative engines; BMW, Jabiru etc!
Duncan. No 175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Finish |
The current opinion on trailing edges seems to be that they should be square,
not rounded. There is even a figure mentioned for maximum thickness but I can't
remember what it is or where I read it. Between 1/16" and 1/8" is easier to
make, less fragile than knife edge and some say reduces stick loads.
BTW,I'm not from the factory but I don't think they will argue.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
By raising the guide pulley an inch (the diameter could be reduced too)
and keeping it close to the wall (not putting washers under the pulleys)
I have a free run high enough to stay well above the brake. I have also
not gone for the utmost retraction, based on the the possibility that
having the wheel a little lower is offset by the better closure of the
aperture, with flat of the arm level with the underside. Could also
extend it sideways to close up the remaining space. I appear to have more
space on the left (though the wheel seems central) so I am quite
attracted to turning it all over and through 120 deg. But this can all be
done later.
Did you really have the puncture before the brake destroyed the tyre,
or did the brake caliper cause it ?- would seem close enough to do it if
the tyre was a bit soft, or a cross wind landing ?
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Finish |
In message <960206224844_100421.2123_BHG33-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, Graham
Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> writes
>The current opinion on trailing edges seems to be that they should be square,
>not rounded. There is even a figure mentioned for maximum thickness but I can't
>remember what it is or where I read it.
Sharp trailing edges to control surfaces in particular can lead to
unpredictable handling response. Blunting the edges has the effect of
"heavying" the controls and apart from being a whole sight easier to
make eliminates a possible later concern. Sharp edges are flutter prone.
Remember the initial flight test responses with YURO's elevator which
was solved initially by attaching a plastic binding clip over the edge
to effect a blunting, thus eliminating the peculiar hysterisis.
See Darrol Stinton's chapter on Control Surfaces in his "Design of an
Aeroplane" for a better explanation.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
The trouble with going for less than max retraction is that you don't get full
flap either. There seems to be a degree of flexibility in the whole system so
that when everything is connected up, that means outriggers too, flap deflection
may be less than the required 25 deg min. Another variable is the preload on the
rubber block. We had to go for max leverage on the flap operating lever as well
as max retraction. We plan to close the gaps at the sides with a fairing over
the wheel.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Hull" <HULLHOUSE(at)msn.com> |
>Have you run across any systems which allow two ignition coils to feed into
one spark plug?<
I am not familiar with this type of ignition. I presume you are looking for
redundency. Current practice in 4 stroke technology is one coil per plug or
per two plugs, and no distributor.
That said, I did some checking, and may have found what you are refering to.
In 1992, a paper was presented at the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE)
annual meeting, describing a two coil ignition system. The goal was to
increase ignition energy. This is often a problem in extremely stratified
(lean) engines, as the fuel/air charge is difficult to light off. The system
used a standard ignition coil wired in parallel with a low voltage, high
current coil. A stack of high voltage diodes in series with the high current
coil and in parallel with the ignition coil prevented the ignition coil from
opposing the high current cycle.
Both coils were triggered at the same time. The ignition coil broke down the
air gap and started current flow. The high current from the other
transformer then flowed through the spark gap.
Delivered energy was allegedly increased, but there was a major problem. The
high current EATS spark plugs. Erosion occurred very rapidly. They developed
an exotic spark plug, but I doubt it did much good. This system never went
anywhere.
I read the paper, and I think their approach had several flaws due to
inexperience. Todays systems use advanced magnetic materials to get increased
spark duration. Multi-strike ignition also has its place. Two stroke
systems, of course, are another matter altogether.
If I find anything else, I'll post it.
Jim Hull
A016 - The Windy City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bean <72016.641(at)compuserve.com> |
Some hints from a new to the forum member
Glasscloth can be stored in plastic drainpipes, various diameters.
If the OR2 candle will not fit in the OR1 & 3 put the OR2 in the freezer for a
while and all will slip together. Adjustment later may be a diferent story.
To hold the TE and LE blocke straight on the spar whilst curing my method was
possible a little simple and crude but - two 12 foot lengths of angle iron with
holes suitably drilled, I had 3. Put one piece each side of the fitted blocks,
stab right through the blocks and fit a long bolt through. I held the tension on
the bolts with some medium to light springs between the nut and the angle iron.
John Bean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lawrence A. Ross" <70244.1553(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
Graham,
Just a thought, (I'm not a builder yet, but have been watching these
discussions about the dearth of room in the "tunnel") It makes sense to raise
the cable as much as possible, but from a longevity standpoint, shouldn't the
pulley be as large a radius as will fit? Small braided or polyfilament cables
destroy themselves with internal friction at a rate inversely proportional to
their working radius.
Larry
(Not a builder yet but wannabe)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Limited retraction. |
Don't follow that, as the flap
mechanism has independent adjustment (or did have, maybe yours is fixed
now).
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
>>shouldn't the pulley be as large a radius as will fit?<<
Hi Larry,
Yes, but there is a rule of thumb relating the size of the cable to acceptable
pulley radius, don't ask me what it is but I,m sure the cable will last long
enough.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)evansville.net> |
| Subject: | builders in Dallas/Ft. Worth, USA area? |
I will be in The Ft. Worth area next week and would like to see/talk to
any builders in the area. I think I have seen some posts from there. If
it would be possible to meet with any of the Texas builders please E-Mail
me with contact information.
I am planning a trip to Lakeland, Florida next month for a look at and
flight in G-ELSA. Was hoping to already be building but it looks like it
is going to be Summer before I can start. Wife wants a new aircraft
factory with attached house first. Seems she doesn't want her car to
reside outside for the duration of the build.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Limited retraction. |
Reply to Graham Clarke
>>you don't get full flap either> Don't follow that,<<
Not surprised. I'm not sure I understand it fully either.
When first set up we had 26 deg flap travel, but with the original horn FL21 set
to give max movement. When finally rigged (almost ) ready to fly we found we had
only 24 deg, we had to fit the new extended FL19 to get fulltravel. My guess is
that the accumulated weight/friction /backlash/loads caused by the outriggers
conspire against the flexibility of the mechanism to reduce the flap travel.
BTW we use a cheap 2 ton car trolley jack with a bolt on adapter to jack up the
plane on the outer ends of the swing arm pivot tube. Dave Dufton's idea.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Pondering your brake/puncture problem |
I didn't change the pulley, just moved it - and the deflection it makes
is nearly zero, as its half way down the run. Actually reduces as you
raise it !
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Limited retraction. |
I see, that'll be interesting. Was just about to set up the flaps when
the weather clamped 3 weeks ago.
I'm
wheeling mine about on the quadricycle u/c (main wheel, rear wheel and
castors on legs attached to dummy wing roots). Have to put a nut on the
end of the wingpin bolts or they lean over backwards. Keep thinking there
ought to be captive nuts for the real wing spars too, to take some of the
strain off the lift pins. One of my bushes is noticeably slack; you can
rock the wing a bit. (and its not the one I had to replace due to the
spacing changing !).
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Rudder Crank Mod. 25 |
Aside from the enormity of the possible necessity of ripping out the
recently reinforced floor panels, the knock-on effects would seem to in
the way of moving the pedals outwards (literally !). As the pedal goes
outwards, the forward travel becomes restricted by the permanent
firewall. If you accept your knees coming back some more, the mid-pedal
position is no longer TDC. This means that a) total travel will be
lost,(is there enough left with the crank in line with the fuselage frame
?) and b) rudder action becomes differential, (rearward movement
occurring at a lesser rate than forward). Is that ergonomically
acceptable ? And for good measure, c) then the cables go slack (no
replacement swages or adjusters supplied). Ugh ! Perhaps the factory will
tell us what the unacceptable solutions they mention are, and why, one
might be yours or mine ! Replacement pedals would save all this, but
"cost to factory" and "builders time" have different dimensions.
gemin 83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Any builders in Dallas/Ft. Worth, USA area? |
You can greatly economise on space with a couple of ropes, as most
garages have are much higher than the cars need. My fuselage halves spent
much time suspended above wifey's car, or mine. Then when the bottom half
was being worked on, it was handy to have the top part above it. It could
be flipped over easily for work on the ceiling panel, door hinges, upper
supports etc. and then lowered into places, all single handed. Now that
the two halves are joined it is easy to walk it in and out on its
castored dummy wingroot u/c to do the wing/flap jigging.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Ski-Sander, ultimate wing leveler ? |
The man-hour requirement for finishing the Europa surfaces is well known
to be very high so perhaps any input, even going against the received
wisdom might be welcome. The following has been tried so far only on fin
and rudder but looks remarkably productive.
Make two inverted T-shaped "skis" from 15 mm block board, height equal
your device*, and length somewhat longer, with carpet tile on the bottom.
Screw them to the ends of a lighter rectangular board a foot or so wide
(according to "wavelength" required) and mount your "device" in the
centre. You then have an "epoxy plane" (your second), infinitely variable
under the pressure of your hand from zero to a removal rate which will
raise your thickest run-ridden coating to top quality in minutes.
* Device = Bosch belt sander 60 mm or 100 mm, 75 to 110 pounds sterling
40 to 280 grit belts available.
There must be a Black & Decker version but the Bosch are everywhere.
Drawing will appear in the FTP - (SANDSKI.ZIP).
Notes:
These devices transit the abrasive at several hundred fpm. and are
normally entirely unsuitable for this task due to violent behaviour when
tilting takes place. The above stabiliser, if first carefully checked and
aligned with shims, and tried out on a flat surface first (other than the
aircraft) tames it. Do not use on tacky surfaces- they shouldn't be if
the mix is right and adequate curing time has been allowed, but they will
drag with any type of sanding if this is not the case. If in any doubt,
hand run a fine grit paper over the surface. If anything but dust appears
,or the paper looks as if it has caught the black death, do not proceed.
Ensure the job is held down (by something or someone), and use only the
device handles, as there can be some hefty dragging forces to resist when
it is working hard. A good guide to removal rate is the change in
"engine" note which you can adjust with hand pressure. And of course
don't run off the edges with either ski !
gemin no.83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com |
I am a new subscriber. My name is John Kilian. I live in the Seattle, Wash.,
USA area. I expect to purchase a Europa kit within six months (anyone out
there selling a kit already started or still in the box?). I am looking
forward to learning from and participating in this exchange of ideas. Regards
to all. John K. LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa(at)gate.net (europa aviation) |
| Subject: | Re: Any builders in Dallas/Ft. Worth, USA area? |
>I will be in The Ft. Worth area next week and would like to see/talk to
>any builders in the area. I think I have seen some posts from there. If
>it would be possible to meet with any of the Texas builders please E-Mail
>me with contact information.
>
>I am planning a trip to Lakeland, Florida next month for a look at and
>flight in G-ELSA. Was hoping to already be building but it looks like it
>is going to be Summer before I can start. Wife wants a new aircraft
>factory with attached house first. Seems she doesn't want her car to
>reside outside for the duration of the build.
>
>Steve
>
>
>Dear Steve:
The following is the name of one of our builders in the Houston, Texas area.
Daniel Thomas
(713) 356-4026
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Davis <101621.3070(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | rnet Mailing List |
Hi! Just sending a note to introduce myself to the list of subscribers. I am
Peter Davis, constructor No.154, and am currently working on the fuselage -
having just stuck the cockpit module in.
For those without a constructor's list, I live at - 40 Norman Avenue, Abingdon,
Oxfordshire, OX14 2HJ, U.K., tel No. (01235) 520936 and would be very pleased to
hear from anyone building an Europa, or thinking of doing so.
I am very new to modems and E-mail, so have no idea if this message will get
anywhere, but good luck and God bless all who fly in her!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | er closeout and deflection. |
My fuselage is almost 100mm wide at the bottom of the tail, but rudder
is only 85 mm, hence nasty looking gap even at full port deflection, and
possible aerodynamic disturbances. Have reshaped it by cutting V slits in
the bottom, resting it in a rigid template of the right shape, and laying
up with bid . Any one else had to do this ?
Incidentally, as checking +-30 deg deflection of rudder can't readily be
done from rudder sides, (due to wedge shape and profile of fin sides),
drawing the positions full size on card and cutting it into a template
(hung over top of fin) is well worth while.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmyers(at)sd.inri.com (John Myers) |
| Subject: | Re: The Ski-Sander, ultimate wing leveler ? |
>Drawing will appear in the FTP - (SANDSKI.ZIP).
>
I'm new to the Europa newsgroup. I've been quietly sitting back reading
the e-mail but not contributing anything. I've been investigating several
homebuilt aircraft over the past three years and so far only the Europa
meets my requirements (the glider wing was the clincher). Anyway I have
two questions:
1. Can anyone fill me in on the status of the glider wings?
2. What is the URL for the Europa FTP site?
Thanks
John Myers
No kit yet but have the Video/Info package/Stage #1 manual.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | db38(at)student.open.ac.uk |
From: jmyers(at)sd.inri.com (John Myers)
>Subject: Re: The Ski-Sander, ultimate wing leveler ?
From: Peter Davis <101621.3070(at)compuserve.com>
Hello John and Pete,
welcome to the europa mail, John, i assume you are in the UK, if
so, then have you had a trip in a europa yet ? Thats the clincher,
nothing else flies like one!
If you can get a copy of Flyer magazine for Jan 96, that gives a
good idea of the status of glider wings and new engines, namely a BMW
motorbike engine. As for the glider wings it states that Ivan has given
the go-ahead. Dont hold your breath yet, but they will be optional ( and
therefore one hopes retro-fittable ) to existing europas, with spoilers
instead of flaps and total 42ft span. Estimated LD 24 and probably more
like a 90KT to 100KT cruise.
Your email worked fine Pete, if you have CIM v2.0 point Mosaic
at this URL, you only need one: http://www.avnet.co.uk
chus, dave
kit67
[Also dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | -rod attachment socket |
You need to be wide-awake to get through 10-113 to 10-117 without making
a mistake. e.g. First line of step 8 tells you to
but its not at all obvious where the cut takes place as all the lines in
section A-A are solid. If you cut out to right hand line shown in
Sect.A-A you will not have any skin left for the rivets two pages later.
The cut line is the vertical line in the right hand fig. And if this fig.
really shows section B-B, why does the nose of the rudder appear in it ?
Step 9 is much better done before the fuselage top goes on or you will
need to rely on a very small boy to do it !
It has already be posted here that the trim actuating arm moves sideways
when you rig the first tail plane, so before the last bulkhead (Step
13)is added, this is the time to install a slotted one further forward to
confine the long arm sideways.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | uilders -Trailers plus other stuff |
It looks as if Gary McKirdy who is based near Banbury will have finished
painting my Europa G-RATZ by the end of this month/beginning of March. If there
is anybody out there who would like to offset the cost of their trailer by
hiring it out to me for a couple of days, I would be glad to hear from them! I
am based near Leeds by the way.
The other stuff is to do with the eyes on the throttle cables - the factory has
just told me that these need drilling out to 1/4" to fit the FL10 sleeves- seems
a shame really but there you go!
Finally, if anyone needs hole cutters for their instrument panels they are
welcome to borrow mine.
Regards to all
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | er closeout and deflection. |
>>My fuselage is almost 100mm wide at the bottom of the tail,<<
Ours is 89mm measured normal to the centreline of the fuselage. Could yours have
been cut off too short? Seems most unlikely the moulding should be too wide. The
mould is pretty solid. I do remember leaving as much as possible on when we did
ours, even though it was a bit rough.
I'm going to make up a mould and try a pemoulded fin spar/sternpost. I think it
will save a lot of hassle and uncertainty.
You're right about the deflection template. It's all to easy to end up with not
enough left rudder because the plywood shear web is too close to the hinge
centreline.And to forget to allow 3 or 4 mm for the layups. Bin there :-(
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dino Baker" <DBA(at)biomed.fmc.flinders.edu.au> |
| Subject: | ling Edge Finish |
>Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Finish
>Trailing Edge Finish:
>It was recommended that all trailing edges (flaps and ailerons too)
>should be
>about 1/8th inch thick - rounded I guess to smooth the appearance. We
>ought to
>seek a directive on this from the factory as I think its quite an
>important
>point ... are you out there Roger in Florida? Or someone from the
>factory?
Greetings Everyone,
Has anybody heard a response from the factory?
John Baker,
(Filling wings, waiting for fuselage kit.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | grantdes(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (John Grant) |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Finish |
>>Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Finish
>
>>ought to
>>important.
Official factory responses are as rare as hen's teeth.
myself) but there has never been a response.
weakened if the unthinkable happened.
Thursdays).
factory.
sadly absent from the factory.
factory newsletter.
Regards.
John T. Grant.(builder 55)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
In buying the Europa kit, there is a presentation by the factory that the kit
is very straightforward and easy to build for the first time builder. I think
this comes under the category of "blue sky" marketing. I am fortunate to have
friends that are helping me to build, and who have completed many airplane
projects over the past 10 years. I think that anyone who undertakes building an
airplane like the Europa should not be fooled by an oversimplistic video about
the ease of construction.
We have only completed the tail kit, but already I have been saved many errors
by the experience of the people who are helping me. My only point to this
letter is that we are adults, and should always live by the rule of "Buyer Be
Ware".
An airplane is very complicated, and we should not be deluded to think that
building will not be problematic during the process. During our building of the
RV-6 kit, which there are many now flying, these same type of problems arose.
To this end, it is ingenuous of Europa to advertise 500 hours for a first time
builder. At the same time, it is foolish to spend the the thousands of dollars
or pounds necessary to build the plane without investigation into the process to
realize the magnitude and commitment required.
So, even though we all now know in fact that 500 hours is ridiculous, the end
product we hope for should help ease the pain. The more I move forward with
building the Europa, the more pleased I am with the decision to choose to build
the plane.
Larry Boggs
Hoosier Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
Reply to John Grant,
<>
I think you could be right on this one, I believe that the factory are in a no
win situation. Anything they say could be used against them, so they work on the
basis that if you don't stick your head up, It won't get shot off!! Our
wonderful legal system is ready and waiting to take them apart at the first sign
of any "serious problem" with the design. All that they can do is say nothing
and pray. Because of the implications of this, the official factory responce can
only be BUILD IT EXACTLY TO THE PLANS!
<>
Europa Aviation are a business, not a charity. In order to continue to survive
they need to put most of their resourses into selling kits and ensuring the
safety of the finished aircraft (hence the recent spate of mods), with builder
support coming second to this. Do you really want to build an aircraft produced
by a company that went bust just after you bought and therefore offers no
support at all? Having said this, I find no problem working with the current
Monday AM or Thursday PM support offered, if I hit a snag I just work on
something else until I can fit in with their support times. The only time I came
to a stop was waiting 10 weeks for a fuel tank that fit (remember that?)
Customer support is there to clarify the build manuals for builders doing it "by
the book". Occasionally they are compromised and asked to give their opinion and
blessing to customer suggestions and mods, they cannot do this. The permit to
fly relates to aircraft built EXACTLY to the plans, any unauthorised customer
mods must be done through the correct PFA channels, not Europa Aviation.
My guess is that the factory are well aware of the discussions and concerns
voiced in this mail group and that contrary to popular belief they do listen.
The Europa design is not perfect, the only safe aircraft is one that never
flies. Trust in God and get some life insurance!
Allan J Hall #177 (Not too close to the throne, not frightened of loosing
favour with the factory)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Anthony Dutton <101602.3546(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi everybody,
My name's Tony Dutton, I'm a new subscriber to this mailing list. I'm
intereseted in building a Europa but have yet to take the plunge! I live in the
Midlands (UK). If there's an existing Europa builder around my area who
wouldn't mind a visit and a bit of a chat (over a pint?) about their project
I'd be glad to hear from them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Factory Response |
>We have only completed the tail kit, but already I have been saved many errors
>by the experience of the people who are helping me. My only point to this
>letter is that we are adults, and should always live by the rule of "Buyer Be
>Ware".
Can you be more specific and let us prospective buyers know the type of problems
you experienced with the tail kit
and what you did to resolve them.
Tony
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
Date: 19/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
Time: 12:20:08 Ph +64 9 358 9127
The New Zealand Home of
ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | bes/European requirements |
Anybody know if there are any requirements due to legislation and/or insurance
requirements?
Regards,
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
Extract from "Classic Sports & Supercars", Nov.1995 issue
"He,(** ******)_ either ignored or was ignorant of the problems which
had always attend such a system -the impossibility of escape from an
inverted vehicle, the ceiling height required when garaged, and the sheer
impracticality of such doors dumping rain water straight into the seats
when opened after a shower... ...a largely novice labour force involved
in production..."
* De Lorean, (but it rings bells, doesn't it ?)
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan Hall <100255.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
<<"He,(** ******)_ either ignored or was ignorant of the problems which
had always attend such a system -the impossibility of escape from an
inverted vehicle>>
Marcello Gandini came up with an interesting solution to this problem on the
Lamborgini Countach - to fit explosive bolts to the hinges which could be
activated in an inverted emergency, I'm sure this could be adapted for the
Europa .
Just remember to tell your passenger not to play with the button in
flight...............................
Allan J Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes/European requirements |
>Anybody know if there are any requirements due to legislation and/or insurance
>requirements?
>Regards,
>Rolph Muller
Hello Rolph,
In the UK I dont believe there are any legal requirements. I'm
putting one on the tail anyway, and all the UK flying europas have
fitted one I believe (Graham has). The factory have recommended
fitting two, one on the fin and one under the fuzz, just behind and to
the side of the main u/c. (in writing. If you dont ask... - thanks
factory ;-) ).
Go for it!
re. the gull wing doors, If the europa worries you, dont
fly in a Slingsby T67. Alternatively, carry one of those
'life hammers' in your plane - i will.
(for those who dont know, they are small pointed-end
hammers, sold in most large DIY stores, for shattering
double glazed windows or car windscreens in emergencies
or if you wish to break in. A few well struck blows
should break the perspex enough to exit the a/c. They
also have a protected blade in the handle to cut
straps.)
chus, dave
kit67
(also db38(at)student.open.ac.uk)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
Ladies and Gentlemen.
May I be so bold as to make some comments regarding this mailing list....
I have subscribed to this list for the past month as I am contemplating the
purchase of a kit and thought that the list would be a great place to pick up
tips on building and be able to exchange information with like minded individuals.
While there is obviously some great feedback I get the feeling that this list
is primarily used as one big gripe session which is not productive for anyone.
I am now reaching the point where I am becoming nervous about starting on the project
simply based on the comments made in this group!
As Europa owners I suspect that you are suffering from a love/hate relationship
with Europa Ltd. I used
to be the NZ president of the Acorn Computer Users Group and we also seemed to
spend most of
our time bitching at Acorn about things - but none of us would ever dream of swapping
our Acorn's for anything else. Is that how you feel about Europa? Would any of
you
really consider abandoning your project?
For the benefit of those of us just about to embark on what is possibly the most
complex project we have undertaken, how about a more positive approach to things.
This is a support group after all isn't it?
Well, that's my tuppence worth.
Happy building
Tony
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
Date: 20/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
Time: 12:44:54 Ph +64 9 358 9127
The New Zealand Home of
ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
>Marcello Gandini came up with an interesting solution to this problem on the
>Lamborgini Countach - to fit explosive bolts to the hinges which could be
>activated in an inverted emergency, I'm sure this could be adapted for the
>Europa .
>
>Allan J Hall
Talking of explosive things. Has anyone considered a ballistic recovery system
as is
being fitted to the Cirrus? Just an idle thought.
Tony
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
Date: 20/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
Time: 13:02:44 Ph +64 9 358 9127
The New Zealand Home of
ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <76223.131(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Factory responses |
Alan Hall writes:
Supporting the customer is not an "add on" or afterthought of running a
business! In fact all modern management theory say's it is the best way to
build and grow any business. In my opinion Europa Aviation is missing out on an
excellent opportunity to address customer questions by not responding to them
directly in this forum. For customers oversees, phone support is difficult and
very expensive. When I purchase my Europa, I want to have an easy and fast way
to commicate from the US with the airplane manufacturer and what better way is
there but the Net?
Would any of you out there want to miss the on-line help you get from your
computer hard- and software supplier these days? A simple disclaimer added to
the response could address any liability problems, by the way.
In this context, Graham Singleton deserves high praise for addressing questions
on this server and for spending time explaining the Europa to the rest of us!
Regards, Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.govt.uk |
Tony,
In the UK all builders under the Popular Flying Authority
wing must have an inspector to keep an eye on their project and
sign off various stages of build. These inspectors are experienced
builders/aviation professionals and are usually the first point of
call for us 'first time' builders. They can usually clarify
instructions and details without you having to call the factory.
In fact, you usually work it out yourself after reading through
the manual a few times and doing a 'dry run' with the bits in your
hand.
I have no idea if there is a similar setup in NZ, but the
PFA Strut/EAA Chapter setup should be an invaluable first point of
reference for the first time builder if inspectors are not
mandatory.
You have to put a lot of effort and planning, as well as
money and time, into building ANY plane, and I would suggest that
someone who has not made contact with an inspector/experienced
builder before they start has not thought through the implications
of the project. Dont forget, we all have different abilities, and
will more than likely sail through a section that someone else will
have problems with, and then come to a stop later on, whilst others
had no problems there at all. Thats when you ask your inspector...
If you balls it up in the middle of a layup then ring the
factory. If they are open they will help you then and there.
Otherwise I have found it as easy to fax them and have always had
a reply later the same day or next morning, by fax. If you are 12
hours out of step with the factory then you NEED a guy in your
time zone, who has built something before, who you can call in the
middle of that flap layup thats going wrong.
Alternatively, if you want to some part of the
design, then give the factory some credit. They have more than
likely been there, done it, etc. If not, they probably decided they
didnt need to go there, do it, etc. Most of us are probably
deviating from the plans: Fitting a strobe, snazzy turned up
wingtips. The factory built and sold us a kit plane with their
plans. The responsibility for builders mods lies on the builders
themselves.
No, I'm not saying that its always your fault, but if youve
got things sorted out before you start, and made allowances for
isolation/time zones/experience, then apart from
frustration you will build the plane of your dreams.
I have no intention of abandoning my europa. There is a
large box file 3/4 full of tips from this email list sat in my
workshop, to supplement the instructions and advice from others.
Yes, I would have liked a metal fuel tank, yes, I have been held
up by lack of parts, yes, I have found the manual ambiguous at
times, yes, I have told Andy and Ivan what I thought of the
instrument panel ! If you want something enough its worth the
hassle.
Enjoy
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
IN New Zealand we follow the EAA mentor system and builders have to join
the NZ Amateur Aircraft Constructors Association. Other than that there
is no other formal input. You (literally) put your life in your own
hands. Following build the CAA inspects the plane prior to test flying. I
have already contacted the NZAACA and found someone familiar with
composites. I also have someone a mere 20 minutes flight away who has
just unpacked his Europa kit so I am hoping that he will discover
problems beofre I do. The other NZ builders seem to be doing quite well
including a first time builder in Christchurch who has rented office
space to build his and is building full time! The only thing he finds
frustrating is that there are no defined tolerances so he has no way of
measuring whether he is building correctly.
Thanks for the feedback. It all helps.
Tony
>
> Tony,
>
> In the UK all builders under the Popular Flying Authority
> wing must have an inspector to keep an eye on their project and
> sign off various stages of build. These inspectors are experienced
> builders/aviation professionals and are usually the first point of
> call for us 'first time' builders. They can usually clarify
> instructions and details without you having to call the factory.
> In fact, you usually work it out yourself after reading through
> the manual a few times and doing a 'dry run' with the bits in your
> hand.
>
> I have no idea if there is a similar setup in NZ, but the
> PFA Strut/EAA Chapter setup should be an invaluable first point of
> reference for the first time builder if inspectors are not
> mandatory.
>
> You have to put a lot of effort and planning, as well as
> money and time, into building ANY plane, and I would suggest that
> someone who has not made contact with an inspector/experienced
> builder before they start has not thought through the implications
> of the project. Dont forget, we all have different abilities, and
> will more than likely sail through a section that someone else will
> have problems with, and then come to a stop later on, whilst others
> had no problems there at all. Thats when you ask your inspector...
>
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
Date: 21/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
Time: 09:22:16 Ph +64 9 358 9127
The New Zealand Home of
ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | ory presence (?) |
After the recent posts about lack of Europa official presence on this list
and the net generally, it's ironic to see in the March 1996 "Pilot" a
mention of:
".. Europa Aviation Ltd (who, by the way, have excellent World Wide Web pages)"
No URL is given for the pages in question so I can't check it out (I'll
e-mail Pilot to see if they know). Is there something Ivan hasn't been
telling us? Or did Tony French think the Europa Club pages, the K R Walsh
homebuilt entry for Europa, or the Kit #81 page were so good that they must
have been put up by the professionals at the factory :-) ? Or has the
Lakeland operation some pages I haven't heard about?
The quote is on page 79, in a review of a CD-ROM purporting to catalogue
homebuilt aircraft (not very successfully, according to the reviewer).
I'd better quote those URLs myself, or I'm bound to get queries.
Europa Club OnLine:
http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa/index.html
K R Walsh Homebuilt pages:
http://www.azstarnet.com/~cmddata/homebuilt/
Thomas Scherer's page on kit #81:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com:80/homepages/ToS/
Oh, and another one I just remembered - US Aviator Europa air test:
http://www.us-aviator.com/usamag/airtests/europa.htm
Anyone know of any other Europa pages?
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | Re: factory presence (?) |
>After the recent posts about lack of Europa official presence on this list
>and the net generally, it's ironic to see in the March 1996 "Pilot" a
>mention of:
>
>".. Europa Aviation Ltd (who, by the way, have excellent World Wide Web pages)"
>
>No URL is given for the pages in question so I can't check it out (I'll
>e-mail Pilot to see if they know). Is there something Ivan hasn't been
>telling us? Or did Tony French think the Europa Club pages, the K R Walsh
>homebuilt entry for Europa, or the Kit #81 page were so good that they must
>have been put up by the professionals at the factory :-) ? Or has the
>Lakeland operation some pages I haven't heard about?
>
Late last year I visited the factory for the report tha appeared in the
January issue of Flyer. I took up a file that contained some of the
postings from this list. I thougt that Ivan/Andy would get on lne when they
saw the good stuff going on here...I am not sure what the current state is,
although I think that Alizon attended an internet course or
something...perhaps soon...
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, 3 Kingsmead Square, Bath, BA1 2AB
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ory Participation in This List |
The current discussion on Europa's involvement in this list ends:
>> Late last year I visited the factory for the report that appeared in the
January issue of Flyer. I took up a file that contained some of the
postings from this list. I thought that Ivan/Andy would get on line when they
saw the good stuff going on here...I am not sure what the current state is,
although I think that Alizon attended an internet course or
something...perhaps soon...
Ian <<
Remember that getting involved in this list could be a time sink for the
factory. I saw a post on the RV list about six months ago stating that the
factory had to quite responding on the list because it took so much time, that
they could either build kits or do email, not both. So, I hope that Europa
lurks.
!
*********************************************************************
Larry Portouw, Major, US Army, Tampa, Florida
72170.1636(at)compuserve.com -or- portouwl(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: factory presence (?) |
If you want another home for Europa information I run a Web server with a
fast link out of it. The space is free for the taking. The address would
be http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa
Tony
wrote:
>>After the recent posts about lack of Europa official presence on this
list
>>and the net generally, it's ironic to see in the March 1996 "Pilot" a
>>mention of:
>>
>>".. Europa Aviation Ltd (who, by the way, have excellent World Wide Web
pages)"
>>
>>No URL is given for the pages in question so I can't check it out (I'll
>>e-mail Pilot to see if they know). Is there something Ivan hasn't been
>>telling us? Or did Tony French think the Europa Club pages, the K R
Walsh
>>homebuilt entry for Europa, or the Kit #81 page were so good that they
must
>>have been put up by the professionals at the factory :-) ? Or has the
>>Lakeland operation some pages I haven't heard about?
>>
>Late last year I visited the factory for the report tha appeared in the
>January issue of Flyer. I took up a file that contained some of the
>postings from this list. I thougt that Ivan/Andy would get on lne when
they
>saw the good stuff going on here...I am not sure what the current state
is,
>although I think that Alizon attended an internet course or
>something...perhaps soon...
>Ian
>
>Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, 3 Kingsmead Square, Bath, BA1 2AB
>Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
>
>
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
Date: 21/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
Time: 15:27:20 Ph +64 9 358 9127
The New Zealand Home of
ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: factory presence (?) |
Make that http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/europa.html. The page now exists.
Tony
--- On Wed, 21 Feb 96 15:27:19 tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz wrote:
>If you want another home for Europa information I run a Web server with
a
>fast link out of it. The space is free for the taking. The address would
>be http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa
>
>Tony
>
>wrote:
>
>>>After the recent posts about lack of Europa official presence on this
>list
>>>and the net generally, it's ironic to see in the March 1996 "Pilot" a
>>>mention of:
>>>
>>>".. Europa Aviation Ltd (who, by the way, have excellent World Wide
Web
>pages)"
>>>
>>>No URL is given for the pages in question so I can't check it out
(I'll
>>>e-mail Pilot to see if they know). Is there something Ivan hasn't been
>>>telling us? Or did Tony French think the Europa Club pages, the K R
>Walsh
>>>homebuilt entry for Europa, or the Kit #81 page were so good that they
>must
>>>have been put up by the professionals at the factory :-) ? Or has the
>>>Lakeland operation some pages I haven't heard about?
>>>
>>Late last year I visited the factory for the report tha appeared in the
>>January issue of Flyer. I took up a file that contained some of the
>>postings from this list. I thougt that Ivan/Andy would get on lne when
>they
>>saw the good stuff going on here...I am not sure what the current state
>is,
>>although I think that Alizon attended an internet course or
>>something...perhaps soon...
>>Ian
>>
>>Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, 3 Kingsmead Square, Bath, BA1 2AB
>>Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
>>
>>
>>
>
>-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
>Reply to tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz L7, 19 Victoria St West
>Date: 21/02/96 Auckland, New Zealand
>Time: 15:27:20 Ph +64 9 358 9127
>
>The New Zealand Home of
>ATM Ltd, NetManage Chameleon and Ecco, Spider/Shiva
>Borderware, Banyan and SNMPc
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
----------------------------------------------------
Tony S Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd
November 16, 1995 - - - - , 20-
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ab