Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ao
October 08, 1997 - November 05, 1997
Next time you come to California I'll make sure you get the proper
antennas for your aircraft...We'll go to Compton to meet with Bob
Archer who makes the best antennas, period..
The copper tape systems are by RST in Grass Valley, California. I
believe RST has advertisements in sport aviation magazines, etc..
Hope all is going well with your project! I now have over 320 hours on
mine with no problems. I have improved some of the engine compartment
details and would be happy to show those to you when I see you next.
Happy Flying!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Antennas for Tim |
Jean Frederickson wrote:
>
> Hey Tim, It's Kim N111EU
> Next time you come to California I'll make sure you get the proper
> antennas for your aircraft...We'll go to Compton to meet with Bob
> Archer who makes the best antennas, period..
> The copper tape systems are by RST in Grass Valley, California. I
> believe RST has advertisements in sport aviation magazines, etc..
> Hope all is going well with your project! I now have over 320 hours on
> mine with no problems. I have improved some of the engine compartment
> details and would be happy to show those to you when I see you next.
> Happy Flying!!
Hi Kim,
Good to hear from you. Yes I must contact Bob Archer re the antenna. I
shall definitely be in LAX Friday the 24th Oct until the Sunday so I will
give you a ring on Friday afternoon and perphaps meet Saturday 25th at
Torrance Airport to meet Bob Archer. Whatever, I shall give you a ring
anyway. I am on Standby at the moment but could easily be in LAX any day.
Everything going well here re building. Doing the Anti-servo tabs today
and will finish the Stabs by...................................
Cheers,
Tim
Hi to Steve.
--
Timothy. P. Ward
26 Tomes Road
Papanui,
Christchurch 8005
NEW ZEALAND
PH 64033525726
Fax 64033525726
Email: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
Can someone please help a mate of mine who is looking for the reference that
explained the alternative procedure to locate the holes for the tailplane
torque tube bushes TP11 into the inside of the fuselage?
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
>Please advise as to who is a dealer close to Toronto Canada. Thank you.
>
>Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in our Europa aircraft.
As you may know we have just launched an updated model of the Europa - the
XS. This incorporates many improvements over the original kit which are
described in the enclosed sheet. The wings, which seem to be your major
concern, now come premoulded, highly pre-assembled and gel coated. The
fuselage also comes gel coated ready to paint, therefore we estimate that
with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
1000 hours.
With over 454 kits now sold in 27 countries worldwide, including 82 in the
USA and 6 in Canada, this makes the Europa one of the most successful kits
ever produced. Since November 1995 over 63 customer built Europa aircraft
have taken to the air and many more are due to fly shortly.
Unfortunately we do not work through an agent network and prefer dealing
directly from our UK head office (-Tel : 00 44 1751 431 773, Fax 00 44 1751
431 706-) or from our American office (which you can contact on 00 1 941
647 53 55, Fax 00 1 941 646 28 77).
Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to
contact us again.
We look forward to hearing from you in the near future.
Yours sincerely,
Lauren Charvet (Miss)
Sales and Marketing Manager
________________________________________________________________________________
from: JohnJMoran
| Subject: | een Doors - 2 ?? |
I took Graham's advice, avoiding spray foam, using blue foam and micro to
fill the space between the doors, then covering it with 2 layers of bid.
Between the roll bars and fitting/covering this space I have spent about 10
hours on this little area so far. Being a lazy sort, I am now procrastinating
on adding a removable panel in the lovingly crafted overhead, which would take
several more hours of cutting, laminating, adding nut plates, fashioning an
alloy plate, etc.
Now, I am considering not installing the jacks for the headsets in the
overhead, but instead placing them in the baggage bulkhead an inch or so from
the outside skin and about even with the bottom of the "D". The jacks wouldn't
be easily accessible when seated but the headsets could easily be connected
before entry. An alloy bracket to hold the headset when not in use would be
secured by the nut which holds the pivot ball for the door strut.
This seems like it would keep things tidy, it would likely weigh a little
less, and it would (not coincidentally) be much less work to implement. Am I
blinded by sloth, or is this a reasonable approach? Comments anyone?
On Fred's concern about ice buildup in the door tang recess, I can see that
this could be a problem in the wrong conditions. However the forward tang
recesses actually extend slightly below the door recess so a drip pan would
have to be below this, requiring a bit of work (!) to build the appropriate
shape. I admit to being hesitant to add holes to admit water deliberately --
water will probably find enough holes on its own. One potential problem is in
descending during a rain shower when the drip pan would be inclined forward,
wanting to dump its contents onto the instrument panel. Rather than installing
a drip pan I would favor avoiding the ice problem by using a cockpit cover
when parking outside during bad weather.
Regards, John A044 Newtown, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | y to saddle up . . . |
Had to curtail my list-server activities just before OSH and we've
been swamped with some fly-ins and weekend seminar activities
since then. Things are quieting down and I'd like to renew my
activities on this list server. In the interim, I've archived
off the files I used to have which listed protocols for "subscribing"
to the various lists . . .
I could dig out the tape and figure it out but I thought I might
prevail on some kind soul(s) to drop me a short message with the
protocol for this list.
Now that our website is up and running well, I'll not post the lengthy
pieces I used to. Instead, I'll put up notices from time to time to
let people know where they can find the information should they choose
to review it.
I'll invite readers to check out several new pieces posted since
OSH 97 . . .
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/fusvsbkr.html>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/gnd_powr.html>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/SwitchRatings/swtchrat.html>
In the mean time, some information on how to "saddle up" on this
list would be appreciated.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <genottes(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
> ...... Now, I am considering not installing the jacks for the headsets in the
> overhead, but instead placing them in the baggage bulkhead an inch or so from
> the outside skin and about even with the bottom of the "D". The jacks wouldn't
> be easily accessible when seated but the headsets could easily be connected
> before entry. This seems like it would keep things tidy, it would likely weigh
a
> little
> less, and it would (not coincidentally) be much less work to implement. Am I
> blinded by sloth, or is this a reasonable approach? ... Comments anyone?
>
> Regards, John A044 Newtown, CT
John,
One thought on this. What if you have to unplug/reinstall a headset while in
flight, due to some communication problem or whatever? Will this installation
allow you enough room to do this without applying for a membership in the FCA
(Flying Contortionists Association)?
Steve Genotte
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
In message <199710091648.RAA02475(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk>, JohnJMoran
writes
>I took Graham's advice, avoiding spray foam, using blue foam and micro to
>fill the space between the doors, then covering it with 2 layers of bid.
>Between the roll bars and fitting/covering this space I have spent about 10
>hours on this little
How about bonding some aluminium brackets across the overhead section,
cutting a piece of ply, screwing in with captive nuts and then covering
with head liner. Easy to remove and easy to fit jacks. Couple or three
hours?
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | markt(at)avnet.co.uk (Mark Talbot) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
>with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
>1000 hours.
>
But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa building time estimates - NOT |
<<...But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500
hours
to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
wrong, surely?? Can someone explain? >>
In California, we call it creative marketing hype...would you buy a kit if it
said something like: 2000 hours and lots of elbow grease? :-) All the
kit plane sales people tend to understate reality.
Randy Stein
BSHADR(at)aol.com
Soviet Monica, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Windhorn(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GLASTARNET: Ready to saddle up . . . |
<<
I'll invite readers to check out several new pieces posted since
OSH 97 . . .
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/fusvsbkr.html>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/gnd_powr.html>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/SwitchRatings/swtchrat.html>
In the mean time, some information on how to "saddle up" on this
list would be appreciated.
>>
Welcome back. Seems you are already "saddled up" on the GlaStarNet.
One suggestion for the postings relating to your web site -- if the three
samples you included in this posting are an example of your plan, they are a
bit cryptic for me although I can figure out what they might be about. If
you could add a short paragraph, or sentence, better describing the nature of
the content of posting, it might give a better idea as to whether it is
worthwhile visiting or not (I do not use an unlimited pricing plan, so time
is money -- e-mail is cheap by comparison with net browsing).
Regards, Doug Windhorn Glastar 5370
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | een Doors - 2 ?? |
>>Now, I am considering not installing the jacks for the headsets in the
overhead, but instead placing them in the baggage bulkhead an inch or so
from
the outside skin and about even with the bottom of the "D". <<
I've tried both overhead, and got irritated by the festooning cables and in
the inward facing sides of the headrests. I think with hindsight I favour
the latter. There will be times when you need to fiddle with headsets in
the air. Once took off, (including radio check, "strength 3" they said )
and got almost unreadable when airborne. Found out some time later we had
swopped headsets. If you fly solo with two headsets installed and only one
squelch, the extra noise will be unnacceptable.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa_Mail: |
"First ever Air Show at LVIP (ABE, Allentown, PA) . . . "
(10/11/97-10/12/97)
Any chance of a Europa being there?
Dave Faust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fillinger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
John -- on 10/9 you wrote --
>On Fred's concern about ice buildup in the door tang recess, I can see that
>this could be a problem in the wrong conditions. However the forward tang
>recesses actually extend slightly below the door recess so a drip pan would
>have to be below this, requiring a bit of work (!) to build the appropriate
>shape. I admit to being hesitant to add holes to admit water deliberately --
>water will probably find enough holes on its own. One potential problem is
in
>descending during a rain shower when the drip pan would be inclined forward,
>wanting to dump its contents onto the instrument panel. Rather than
installing
>a drip pan I would favor avoiding the ice problem by using a cockpit cover
>when parking outside during bad weather.
Thanx for the comments. Appears you are correct. Curiously, that's exactly
what happens on my Grumman Traveler, where water enters thru the canopy latch
lever on top, and the trim underneath and inside empties its contents on flap
deployment prior to landing. The water ruins the flap switch.
Hate to haul around a canopy cover, though. Maybe a roll on climbout should
be added to the takeoff check list, to empty any water in the recesses! :-)
Regards
Fred Fillinger
A063
Mentor, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to saddle up . . . |
>
>One suggestion for the postings relating to your web site -- if the three
>samples you included in this posting are an example of your plan, they are a
>bit cryptic for me although I can figure out what they might be about. If
>you could add a short paragraph, or sentence, better describing the nature of
>the content of posting, it might give a better idea as to whether it is
>worthwhile visiting or not.
Excellent point! Here's an annotated repost . . .
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/fusvsbkr.html>
>
An annotated "wing and a prayer" story . . . "It
was a dark and stormy night and all of a sudden,
the main breaker blew leaving me in the dark."
I wish it were really humerous and in this case the
story does have a happy ending . . . BUT . . . it should
not have happened in the first place.
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/gnd_powr.html>
>
Illustrated instructions on modifying the "Piper style"
ground power jack sold by Aircraft Spruce for use on your
airplane. Schematics and step by step instructions.
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/SwitchRatings/swtchrat.html>
>
"The switch says '7A @ 125 VAC', can I use it on my
airplane? Where do I buy DC rated switches?"
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>Bob,
>
>Your web page on the use of fuses in place of breakers is right, I think.
Maybe.
>
>With your wide experience you tell to use fuses but we amateurs, with the
wisdom
>gained from looking at existing panels say "yeah, Bob, but..." Here are a
few
>yabuts.
>
>"It isn't done this way, breakers are the standard way."
>
Who's "standard" . . . where is is written? FAR21, 25, 43 all speak to
the use and maintenance of both fuses and breakers. How did breakers become
a "standard". They certainly became a custom as people found out how BAD
the little fuse holders are with the caps that drop on the floor and roll
all the way back to the baggage compartment. Breakers became a convenience.
No place in the FARs does it say that ANY fuses or breakers have to be
located in reach of the pilot. They DO say that fuses in reach of any
crew that powers "flight critical" circuits must be backed up with
50% spares. So tell me what systems on your proposed airplane are
"flight critical" meaning that failure of the device presents an
immediate hazard to flight?
>"I can't risk the lives of my loved ones on something different."
>
Explain the risk. Paint the scenario where reseting a breaker in flight
is going to bring some absolutely essential piece of equipment back on
line.
>"It is harder to replace a fuse in flight than to reset a breaker."
>
>
You betcha . . . that's why I don't bother to put them anywhere I might
even be tempted to fiddle with them in the air. Be a pilot in the air
and save being a mechanic until on the ground.
>"We should not use anything that is used on automobiles until it is proven
on
>airplanes"
You got it backwards. The stuff on current airplanes was certified in 1940-
1970 with precious few changes since then. Take a walk through the Service
Difficulty Reports on the net and see how often a "certified" piece of
equipment
fails. Of course it can be "overhauled" and yellow-tagged and put right
back
on an airplane . . . it's the same piece of 1960's technology that came off
in the first place . . . you have any confidence in that? On the other hand,
how often do you have problems with similar gizmos in your car? The
environment
under the hood of a modern automobile is just as punishing as under the cowl
of an airplane. There's temperature cycles, splash, sand, dust, ozone,
oil vapors . . . you name it. For myself, I've replaced one alternator
on one
of 7 cars owned over the past 12 years with a cumulative total of more than
4,000 hours operating time . . . As I write these words, B&C is doing a
booming business in STANDBY alternators out of his booth at the American
Bonanza Society show here in Wichita. He just told me on the phone about
how often people have alternator troubles in their airplanes. If I owned
a $40,000 automobile and had these kinds of troubles, I'd be all over the
dealer. Yet people fly around in $250,000 airplanes and put up with the most
rediculous problems because "fixing" the problem is too expensive . . . and
besides, the current system is "certified."
The majority of alternators, starters, fuel injection systems, ignition
systems on cars go to the junk yard still working after 100,000+ miles of
service. Airplane products and designs are "carved in stone" while
automobiles continue to evolve and become better and better values every
year. I'd put any modern automobile part on my airplane before I'd
opt for a part out of a salvaged C-172 . . . even the new ones right off
the assembly line.
>
>"What if I later want to sell my airplane - who'd buy it with fuses?"
>
Somebody who understands why you elected to use fuses instead of breakers
and why they're out of reach just like on your car. Check the threads
and articles out on our website for more info . . .
>
>"A few fuses aren't nearly as impressive as a panel full of switches."
>
Now there is an EXCELLENT reason for going to breakers. I had a client
a few years ago hire me to do a wirebook for his proposed BD-10J project.
It was a design goal to make this airplane "look as military as possible".
We ended up with 65+ breakers in the airplane for a total of $1300.00.
Personally, I'd rather use that money -AND- panel space for something
really useful like a second GPS receiver or perhaps a CD player.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Question |
>Bob: Have seen several of your articles, and have never failed to learn
>quite a bit from each one. . . .
Thank you. I'm pleased to be helpful.
> . . . . . I have a T-6G, 28v system, generator with OLD
>voltage reg. The ammeter is a generator-load meter, showing only positive
>amps as the load increases, but not negative amps as the load increases on
>the battery. The scale of the meter is wrong, in my opinion. Rarely draw
>more than 30 amps, yet the meter goes to 150 amps. At normal draw of 5-10
>amps, the needle barely moves off of zero.
Obviously, a poor selection of instrumentation.
>I recently bought a combination voltmeter/ammeter.......the type that reads
>amps until you push and hold a button in order to read volts. Max scale
>is 30 amps. Both the installed meter and the new meter have an external
>shunt. The existing shunt will carry up to 150 amps, with "X" millivolts
>providing full-scale needle deflection. ( I forget what "X" is)
>The new volt/ammeter came with a shunt that is rated at only 30 amps, with
>the same "X" millivolts being full-scale (in this case 30 amps) deflection.
This is good stuff . . and why I'm forwarding this letter to some list
servers I subscribe to. A standard within the instrumentation world is
to design remote shunt ammeters such that 50 millivolts on the
instrument's
terminals will cause it to read full scale. That scale could be 1 amp or
1,000 amps . . . it matters not.
The remote shunt is simply a precision power resistor designed to drop
50 millivolts across its terminals as it passes design current levels.
Hence, take about any remote shunt style ammeter and it will read FULL
SCALE at whatever current the SHUNT is calibrated, irrespective of what
the instrument's scaleplate sez.
>My question is: How can I properly install an ammeter with a scale that
>will let me read the meter, say 0-30 or 0-50 amps? Do I have to change the
>Shunt?
Yes . . . install your new shunt in place of the old one, wire in the
new instrumenet across the shunt (use 5 amp in-line fuses in each
lead coming from the shunt . . . the fuses mount as close to the shunt
a practical).
>If so, does the rating of the shunt have to approximate the rating
>of the generator?
Sure. The original situation you cited illustrated how impractical it
was to monitor the output of a 30 amp machine with a 150 amp instrument.
For alternator load meters, I don't calibrate them in AMPS, just percent
of load. Then, I'll keep a selection of shunts around for the popular
alternator sizes. The pilot's real interest is in how much of the
alternator's
capacity is being taxed. Hence, a meter that reads in percentage of some
shunt value fills the bill. The the builder wants to but in a bigger
alternator
later, he just changes the shunt, the SAME instrument stays in place
on the
panel. Nifty huh????
>Does the shunt have to match the ammeter?
Yes . . . the SCALE PLATE has to have the same full scale reading as the
ampere rating on the shunt.
>Thank you in advance for any advice you might have. And if time doesn't
>permit you to answer these questions, I fully understand.
You're most welcome and than you for the question. We'll make time.
The institutionalized aviation community has held their "black art"
very close to the chest. While ordinary citizens are building their
own byte-thrashing computers from mail-order parts, citizens who own
airplanes are not expected to know or even want to know how they work.
It's time we stopped that and started sharing the knowledge. That's
what these list-servers and our business is all about.
>Peter C. Hunt
>
>"HUNTER"
>Capt. USN, ret. Ex Fighter Pilot, A&P, T-6 Owner/Operator.
>
>
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Question |
om>
>
>
>[Epplin John A]
>
>
>One question I have: What is the generator capacity? I suspect the T-6
>has at least a 100 amp generator. The ammeter shunt should be capable
>of more than the continuos capacity of the generator. D.C. generators
>are usually capable of at least 200% rated load for a short time.
Not if their regulators are working . . . there are three "relays"
in a generator's regulator: reverse current cutout, voltage regulation,
and current regulation. Failure of the current regulation "relay"
puts generator at risk for much smoking.
> There
>is no current regulator installed with most high capacity DC generators.
>Alternators generally are self limiting in current. They usually will
>not produce much more than there rated output.
Can you tell me of a system that's not current regulated. I'm trying
to recall if there was a current reguation feature in the old carbon
pile regulated systems . . I don't think their was. Modern starter
generators are limited via electronics that watches the drop across
a series compensation widing . . . a sort of quasi ammeter shunt.
>
>I realize this is a problem with instrumentation. You want to be able
>to determine if the gen is working, hard to do if you only have a 10 amp
>load and a 150 amp meter. The answer lies in the voltmeter. In my
>opinion the battery voltage is a better indication of the overall system
>condition than the ammeter. For my money, I would keep the existing
>ammeter and add a voltmeter. The ammeter could be a valuable asset in
>case of some malfunction such as a shorted cell, the amps would be high
>with normal voltage.
Well taken. I used to believe that the battery ammeter (-0+) indicator
was the most useful if one were to install a single instrument. 10 years
later with the evolution of essential busses and rerouting of the alternator
b-lead to the starter contactor, that type of ammeter is difficult to
implement. Besides, you still need a "battery gas gage" for alternator
out operations. Soooooo . . . an alternator load meter AND a voltmeter
are good things to have.
>I do like your idea of calibrating the instrument in percent load and
>installing the appropriate shunt. This is really what you are
>interested in anyway. The pilot should know what % to expect as normal
>for the conditions.
It also reduces the number of ammeters I have to inventory!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com>
> I don't want to start another great debate over the fuse Vs Breaker
>concept, but I have to take exception to your example.
>
> First of all, it would appear from your statements that you're talking
>about UNMANNED spacecraft. I to beleive that fuses in this type of
>installation is the correct approach. But there are times when an
>intermittent short that opens a critical circuits breaker might result in
>the pilots safe return with the ability to reset that breaker. I agree
>that service work should not be performed in the cockpit while flying,
>but I would rather have the ability to reset a breaker IF I NEED TO, and
>it doesn't interferr with the control of the aircraft. Just my opinion.
Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
questions:
(1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
hazard to completion of flight.
(2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
(3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
Tomorrow, I'll carry the analysis of each response to the next step.
This is just the kind of process we do in the "big" airplane business;
it's a good exercise to know . . .
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa building time estimates - NOT |
Welcome to America. I have spent 500 hours sanding alone. But .... I have
forgotten the rest.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <genottes(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
Mark Talbot wrote:
> >with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
> >1000 hours.
> >
> But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
> to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
> them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
> that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
> wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
Mark,
The first rule in kit planes is to double the original build time estimate of
the manufacturer. I'm not saying there is some dark purpose to this
underestimation of actual build time, that's just the way it seems to work
out. Over the years it has been shown that the average Europa (pre XS models)
was taking approx. 1000 or so hours to finish, thereby proving my above
statement. Since the XS kit greatly reduces the amount of lay ups/finishing
required, the projected time savings has a great deal of validity behind it.
There is "...nothing wrong...", its just part of the evolution of a design and
its build process.
Regards
Steve Genotte
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
Electronic Ignition on my Lycoming
of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
Electric A/H if I get stuck above cloud
hazard to completion of flight.
(2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
Tell me
(3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
Engine quits or airplane goes upside down
regards Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland and Wilma Carson <rowil(at)gn.apc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Fixing |
Tony Renshaw wrote:
>Can someone please help a mate of mine who is looking for the reference that
>explained the alternative procedure to locate the holes for the tailplane
>torque tube bushes TP11 into the inside of the fuselage?
Tony - the only references I can find are to items identified as TP6 & TP13
- have the part numbers been changed, I wonder?
cheers
Rowland
who has just discovered _another_ job getting between him & project start -
it's raining heavily, almost the first we've had since moving in, Wilma has
just gone to bed, and the roof is leaking just above her head ..... thank
goodness the garage (= future Europa factory) seems to be reasonably
watertight!
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Webb" <wwebb(at)dot.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! |
G'day all
Well, the day has finally arrived. The first stage of 'XS' kit No 356 has
arrived at my front door step in the land downunder. The kit arrived as I
was moving into my new home and luckily, I had a few extra hands to lift it
off the truck. One of the attractions of the new home is that there is an
extra 3 car brick structure on the property, which has now been formally
christened the 'aircraft hanger'.
Unfortunately, I have 3 weeks of solid work in front of me, so I will wait
until I can give this box of glue and cloth my undivided attention before
getting really excited. I have been practicing my epoxying techniques a
little by helping a friend build a 37' trimiran and as he is very
experienced in this area, I have agreed to allow him to help me with the
Europa. (At least if it doesn't fly very well it should float superbly).
I'm really looking forward to finding out what all the fuss is about and no
doubt I'll be on the lookout for some helpful tips from those generous
souls that have blazed the trail before me.
Regards
Warren Webb
builder No (XS) 356
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
Flying Hi - Wish I was
jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----------
> From: Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....
> Date: 10 October 1997 19:28
>
> >> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> Electronic Ignition on my Lycoming
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> Electric A/H if I get stuck above cloud
> hazard to completion of flight.
Not that I ever would be above cloud in my Europa of coarse because thats
not legal. Not even in France where its legal for the French but not for me
because it exceeds the conditions of my UK licence???
( Jerry )
>
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
> Tell me
>
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
> Engine quits or airplane goes upside down
>
> regards Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MIKE <mike.a0011109(at)infotrade.co.uk> |
Graham,
Would you please put in hand one set of firewalls and one rudder post and let
me know delivery time and cost please.
Thanks.
Mike Dawson bldr 96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>>Not that I ever would be above cloud in my Europa of coarse because thats
not legal.<<
Since when did clouds obey laws.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
Mark Talbot wrote:
>
> >with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
> >1000 hours.
> >
> But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
> to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
> them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
> that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
> wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
>
Do you live in a VACUUM? Hadn't your teachers in school taught you the
meaning of "poetic license"?
An allegory to this is the "Campaign Promise" which is not worth the
paper it is not written on!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
Steve & Eileen Genotte wrote:
>
> Mark Talbot wrote:
>
> > >with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
> > >1000 hours.
> > >
> > But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
> > to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
> > them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
> > that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
> > wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
>
> Mark,
>
> The first rule in kit planes is to double the original build time estimate of
> the manufacturer. I'm not saying there is some dark purpose to this
> underestimation of actual build time, that's just the way it seems to work
> out. Over the years it has been shown that the average Europa (pre XS models)
> was taking approx. 1000 or so hours to finish, thereby proving my above
> statement. Since the XS kit greatly reduces the amount of lay ups/finishing
> required, the projected time savings has a great deal of validity behind it.
> There is "...nothing wrong...", its just part of the evolution of a design and
> its build process.
>
> Regards
>
> Steve Genotte
>
Also to be kept in mind is the statement, in most of the magazine
articles, that they were using manufacturing facilities. Thus had the
best of all situations in which to work. Not like the homebuilder with
limited space and, unless filthy rich, not the means to keep all
materials on hand to be available when needed in the construction
process.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <fkyle(at)bigwave.ca> |
Cheers,
I THOUGHT I had carefully captured the message to all which explained how
one might acquire the Europa messages which preceded joining the net......
Unfortunately, in dumping a thoroughly useless "server" for a better haven,
I seem to have also dumped the info. Please could someone send the magic formula
for acquiring those messages sent from say, January to June 1997...?
I promise not to dump THAT. Many thanks in advance.
Happy landings,
Ferg Kyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>
> >
> > (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
>
> > Tell me
> >
> > (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
>
> > Engine quits or airplane goes upside down
> >
> > regards Graham
> >
Upon approaching field, blue/white is "below" wings,
green/concrete/macadam is "above" canopy. Landing gear hard to "lower".
C-R-U-N-C-H!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
Fillinger(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> John -- on 10/9 you wrote --
>
> >On Fred's concern about ice buildup in the door tang recess, I can see that
> >this could be a problem in the wrong conditions. However the forward tang
> >recesses actually extend slightly below the door recess so a drip pan would
> >have to be below this, requiring a bit of work (!) to build the appropriate
> >shape. I admit to being hesitant to add holes to admit water deliberately --
> >water will probably find enough holes on its own. One potential problem is
> in
> >descending during a rain shower when the drip pan would be inclined forward,
> >wanting to dump its contents onto the instrument panel. Rather than
> installing
> >a drip pan I would favor avoiding the ice problem by using a cockpit cover
> >when parking outside during bad weather.
>
> Thanx for the comments. Appears you are correct. Curiously, that's exactly
> what happens on my Grumman Traveler, where water enters thru the canopy latch
> lever on top, and the trim underneath and inside empties its contents on flap
> deployment prior to landing. The water ruins the flap switch.
>
> Hate to haul around a canopy cover, though. Maybe a roll on climbout should
> be added to the takeoff check list, to empty any water in the recesses! :-)
>
> Regards
>
> Fred Fillinger
> A063
> Mentor, OH
>
>
>
>
>
Removable dessicant packs. On opening plane, remove packs and replace
with dry ones. Take removed ones home and oven them to dry out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> >>Now, I am considering not installing the jacks for the headsets in the
> overhead, but instead placing them in the baggage bulkhead an inch or so
> from
> the outside skin and about even with the bottom of the "D". <<
>
> I've tried both overhead, and got irritated by the festooning cables and in
> the inward facing sides of the headrests. I think with hindsight I favour
> the latter. There will be times when you need to fiddle with headsets in
> the air. Once took off, (including radio check, "strength 3" they said )
> and got almost unreadable when airborne. Found out some time later we had
> swopped headsets. If you fly solo with two headsets installed and only one
> squelch, the extra noise will be unnacceptable.
> Graham
Why not "cordless"? Ads for mono/stereo headsets using LED transmitters.
Many
circuits for one-way transmission of audio using LEDs in such as Circuit
Encyclopedia by Markus. You have blue, green, red and yellow LEDs. Two
colors for each headset - no cords! If not comforable with LEDs only on
panel brow, put on overhead as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > I don't want to start another great debate over the fuse Vs Breaker
> >concept, but I have to take exception to your example.
> >
> > First of all, it would appear from your statements that you're talking
> >about UNMANNED spacecraft. I to beleive that fuses in this type of
> >installation is the correct approach. But there are times when an
> >intermittent short that opens a critical circuits breaker might result in
> >the pilots safe return with the ability to reset that breaker. I agree
> >that service work should not be performed in the cockpit while flying,
> >but I would rather have the ability to reset a breaker IF I NEED TO, and
> >it doesn't interferr with the control of the aircraft. Just my opinion.
>
> Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
> next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
> questions:
>
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
Alternator first, then...
Electric gyro, HSI, ASI in that order [who uses magcomp anymore?]
Night flight with current hungry nav-lights and anti-collision light(s)
to eat
battery below 10v and shutdown of critical instrumentation.
>
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
wiring across sharp metal corner(s) wearing through insulation;
moisture leak - shorting out instrument(s);
vibration loosening internal hardware which shorts uncoated
connections;
>
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
You've got to be kidding!
>
> Tomorrow, I'll carry the analysis of each response to the next step.
> This is just the kind of process we do in the "big" airplane business;
> it's a good exercise to know . . .
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
> ////
> (o o)
> | |
> | Go ahead, make my day . . . |
> | Show me where I'm wrong. |
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to saddle up . . . |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> "The switch says '7A @ 125 VAC', can I use it on my
> airplane? Where do I buy DC rated switches?"
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Check catalogs for switches. In most cases just substitute 32 VDC for
the 120 VAC and you are in the ballpark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Fixing |
Rowland,
Thanks for looking on my friends behalf. I managed to drag out of Newsletter
No 13 a reference from Oliver Smith. This seems to be the reference he was
looking for.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
>
>>Can someone please help a mate of mine who is looking for the reference that
>>explained the alternative procedure to locate the holes for the tailplane
>>torque tube bushes TP11 into the inside of the fuselage?
>
>Tony - the only references I can find are to items identified as TP6 & TP13
>- have the part numbers been changed, I wonder?
>
>cheers
>
>Rowland
>
>who has just discovered _another_ job getting between him & project start -
>it's raining heavily, almost the first we've had since moving in, Wilma has
>just gone to bed, and the roof is leaking just above her head ..... thank
>goodness the garage (= future Europa factory) seems to be reasonably
>watertight!
>
>
>... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <genottes(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Old email messages |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
> Please could someone send the magic formula for acquiring those messages
sent from say, January to June 1997...?
Fergus:
I lifted this from the Europa Chat instructions:
Each month you can request the AVnet computer to send you updates by
sending an e-mail to the request address. (europa-request(at)avnet.co.uk).
The subject does not matter but the body of the message should contain...
get europa europa.YYMM (where YY = the year and MM = month)
For example to request messages for June 96, send....
get europa europa.9606
This should do it.
Regards,
Steve Genotte
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
>>Why not "cordless"? Ads for mono/stereo headsets using LED
transmitters.<<
Not heard of these before! Where are they advertised?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ust pipe burned through |
I recently discovered that two front exhaust pipes (front and rear on left
side) have burned through in their bent radius at the engine side.
I have now 70 hours on the engine and I suppose that it burned through
since the last 10 to 20 hours, according the size of the hole. I must admit
that I had the ThermoTec lagging on the pipes right up to the cylinder
heads so I didn't see when it started. But I still believe that this is
not normal after such a short time; could it be the material?
Would it be better to have the pipes in stainless steel (as the silencer
is)?
In addition, I can not separate the front tubes from the main silencer box
because they seem to have melted together; neither heating nor brute force
did help so far to get the tubes out.
Any advise? Should I order a completely new exhaust assembly including
pipes (if possible in stainless steel) and silencer and keep my "old"
silencer as a spare part?
Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <fkyle(at)bigwave.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
----------
>
> > I don't want to start another great debate over the fuse Vs Breaker
> >concept, but I have to take exception to your example.
> >
> Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
> next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
> questions:
>
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
>
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
>
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
>
> Tomorrow, I'll carry the analysis of each response to the next step
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DR. CHRISTOPH BOTH" <Christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! |
Congratulation!
I would advise however, to at least do a full inventory and check ALL
parts for damage as there might be limited times set by the
insurance company covering your transport until when you might have
rights to a claim.
My shipment to Canada contained a damaged fuselage bottom and the
first thing the insurer wanted to know was after which time the crate
was inspected (I think I had 2 weeks time or so).
Well, Europa has testified again that they do stand behind their
products and promises: after lengthy wrestling with the British
transport insurer (which they did for me for10 months!!!!!) a
replacement fuselage bottom was sent to Canada FREE of charge.
This is customer service.
Christoph Both #223, Halifax/Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! Date: Sat, 11
G'day all
Well, the day has finally arrived. The first stage of 'XS' kit No 356 has
arrived at my front door step in the land downunder. The kit arrived as I
was moving into my new home and luckily, I had a few extra hands to lift it
off the truck. One of the attractions of the new home is that there is an
extra 3 car brick structure on the property, which has now been formally
christened the 'aircraft hanger'.
Unfortunately, I have 3 weeks of solid work in front of me, so I will wait
until I can give this box of glue and cloth my undivided attention before
getting really excited. I have been practicing my epoxying techniques a
little by helping a friend build a 37' trimiran and as he is very
experienced in this area, I have agreed to allow him to help me with the
Europa. (At least if it doesn't fly very well it should float superbly).
I'm really looking forward to finding out what all the fuss is about and no
doubt I'll be on the lookout for some helpful tips from those generous
souls that have blazed the trail before me.
Regards
Warren Webb
builder No (XS) 356
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
Replacing Screens
Well it had to happen didn't it! Having brought the doors inside for safe
keeping (away from the workshop where they could get damaged) while I
continued to work on the fuselage, I followed them in with the flaps with
which I managed to catch the corner of one of the doors which toppled it
over such that the center of the screen landed on the corner of the vacuum
cleaner.
You guessed it, a nice big 3 pronged crack in the plexiglass - each leg
around 6 inches long. Its at times like this that you wish you could wind
the clock back a couple of seconds and do things differently.
Fortunately I suppose I have yet to have the doors painted although they
are all nicely filled and primed and ready to go to the paint shop.
Anyone had any experience of getting the old plexiglass out? I have a
feeling that the redux used to bond it in is going to be stronger than the
door frame.
Any thoughts and experiences would be appreciated.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | markt(at)avnet.co.uk (Mark Talbot) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
I wrote:
>>
you estimate that
>> >with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
>> >1000 hours.
>> >
>> But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
>> to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
>> them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
>> that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
>> wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
>> And then you wrote:
>Do you live in a VACUUM? Hadn't your teachers in school taught you the
>meaning of "poetic license"?
>
>An allegory to this is the "Campaign Promise" which is not worth the
>paper it is not written on!
So where does all this leave the ACTUAL likely build time of the XS?
The Europa Mk 1 advertized time was 500 hours. It takes about three times
that. The Europa XS advertized time is longer than the Mk 1. How much poetic
licence should one allow for this then? Double it? Treble it?
Mark Talbot (Europa G-BWCV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe burned through |
I have heard that on the 912 pipes may burn through particularly in mild
steel and particularly if there is a bend near the manifold.
I had thought the Europa exhaust was in stainless? not just the silencer.
Jerry
----------
> From: Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: exhaust pipe burned through
> Date: 12 October 1997 13:23
>
> I recently discovered that two front exhaust pipes (front and rear on
left
> side) have burned through in their bent radius at the engine side.
> I have now 70 hours on the engine and I suppose that it burned through
> since the last 10 to 20 hours, according the size of the hole. I must
admit
> that I had the ThermoTec lagging on the pipes right up to the cylinder
> heads so I didn't see when it started. But I still believe that this is
> not normal after such a short time; could it be the material?
> Would it be better to have the pipes in stainless steel (as the silencer
> is)?
>
> In addition, I can not separate the front tubes from the main silencer
box
> because they seem to have melted together; neither heating nor brute
force
> did help so far to get the tubes out.
> Any advise? Should I order a completely new exhaust assembly including
> pipes (if possible in stainless steel) and silencer and keep my "old"
> silencer as a spare part?
>
> Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
Anybody know where in the UK I can buy Aludine?
'Spruce and speciality' and the crowd at Henstridge both used to sell it
but because of transport regulations now they don't.
I have seen it used on small aluminium parts at it appeared very effective.
Not as good as anodising but a very useful product.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
The manufacturer is Henkel. They are a big German chemical manufacturer and
have an office in the UK.
Tony
------------------------
From: Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Aludine
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:15:32 +1300
> Anybody know where in the UK I can buy Aludine?
> 'Spruce and speciality' and the crowd at Henstridge both used to sell it
> but because of transport regulations now they don't.
>
> I have seen it used on small aluminium parts at it appeared very effective.
> Not as good as anodising but a very useful product.
>
> Jerry
>
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ust pipe burned through |
>>I recently discovered that two front exhaust pipes (front and rear on
left
side) have burned through in their bent radius at the engine side.
I have now 70 hours on the engine and I suppose that it burned through
since the last 10 to 20 hours<<
The earlier ones were all stainless. We (GK Whip) have 130 hours, fully
wrapped and no burn through. Our pipes are 100
per cent stainless.
I understand the reason for reverting to mild steel downpipes was the risk
of fatigue cracking, which did happen on a couple of occasions. We decide
to support the weight of the silencer with a couple of brackets welded on
halfway along it 's length clipped to the engine mount. So far so good, no
problems.
Europa did issue an AD warning against wrapping the first 4 inches of
downpipe. Maybe too late, Klaus.
>>In addition, I can not separate the front tubes from the main silencer
box
because they seem to have melted together; neither heating nor brute force
did help so far to get the tubes out.<<
I suggest you carefully cut the front tubes off, Order new front tubes in
stainless and stick with your old silencer. Maybe also suggest to Europa
that they do the same.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> Its at times like this that you wish you could wind the clock back a
couple of seconds and do things differently.<<
That wish is Soooooo! familiar. Like the last time I got booked for
speeding {:-(((((<
>> I have a feeling that the redux used to bond it in is going to be
stronger than the
door frame.<<
Could be. However, keep cool. Perspex (British Plexiglass, ) and epoxy
don't bond all that well. Redux is a toughened epoxy, the colour is ground
up rubber I believe (crack stopper.) You should find that the Perspex will
crack off cleanly if chiselled out. Probably in numerous bits but not to
worry. If you do it on a cold day it will crack easier.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
>>So where does all this leave the ACTUAL likely build time of the XS?
The Europa Mk 1 advertized time was 500 hours. It takes about three times
that. The Europa XS advertized time is longer than the Mk 1.<<
Come on guys. Be a little kinder to our leader. The XS will certainly be
quicker to build than the "Classic". This can only mean that the company is
being more realistic with it's build time estimate. (not before time, {;-)
It's my belief also that those of us with a few hours under our belt are
pretty delighted with our airplanes. They perform very close to "as
advertised". The fact that it requires real piloting skill on the ground is
a bonus. The assembled multitude watching our crosswind landings are
gratifyingly impressed.
Graham
PS. if Tony K reads this, the 10 foot bounce was due to the fact that the
ground bounced, not the airplane. (It was downhill and the runway has a
skijump 100 m into the strip. ) The passenger, Charlie Laverty's lovely
lady Gilian never knew anything happened so don't tell her, or she won't
fly with Charlie...... OK?
I just mention this to illustrate that the airplane can cope with
remarkably unsuitable situations. I should perhaps also add that my tongue
is loosened by Charlie's excellent single malt whiskey.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Scherer" <ToSSi(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Replacing Screens |
> Anyone had any experience of getting the old plexiglass out? I have
>feeling that the redux used to bond it in is going to be stronger than the
>door frame.
Yes, here is someone with experience...
Mine cracked when I tried to lift it at one spot in order to remove some
material that prevented the windows from being flush with the rest of the
door. (BTW a window will cost you some 180 $).
The window comes off real easy with heat. As any epoxy, Redux will give to
heat and loose the bond. I started at one corner with a hairdrayer and once
started walked a Screwdriver alongside. Approx 3 cm / second should keep the
heat down at the surrounding structure and weaken the Redux sufficiently to
lift the window off.
Tell me what you do with the broken one. I still can't throw mine away...
=== did high speed taxi (40 kn) today and veered off the runway only once. ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Between Doors - 2 ?? |
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> >>Why not "cordless"? Ads for mono/stereo headsets using LED
> transmitters.<<
>
> Not heard of these before! Where are they advertised?
>
> Graham
Check stereo catalogs an or uk equivalent to usa's Radio Shack. Check
local library for various electronic circuit encyclopedias under audio
an or light communications.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
Mark Talbot wrote:
>
> I wrote:
> >>
> you estimate that
> >> >with this fast built kit you could built your Europa XS in between 600 and
> >> >1000 hours.
> >> >
> >> But I thought that the original build kit was meant to take only 500 hours
> >> to complete. Surely that is what the advertisements always said - look at
> >> them - YEARS of them, in LOTS of magazines. Yet here is a FAST build kit
> >> that is going to take longer - or maybe 500 hours longer!! Something is
> >> wrong, surely?? Can someone explain?
> >> And then you wrote:
> >Do you live in a VACUUM? Hadn't your teachers in school taught you the
> >meaning of "poetic license"?
> >
> >An allegory to this is the "Campaign Promise" which is not worth the
> >paper it is not written on!
>
> So where does all this leave the ACTUAL likely build time of the XS?
> The Europa Mk 1 advertized time was 500 hours. It takes about three times
> that. The Europa XS advertized time is longer than the Mk 1. How much poetic
> licence should one allow for this then? Double it? Treble it?
> Mark Talbot (Europa G-BWCV)
>
So they underestimated, WAY UNDERESTIMATED, the time to build. If you're
so antsy about just go down to your local five and dime and get a
rubber-band windup glider and be in the air in no time at all. See how
many you have to build to lift you off the ground - how many hours?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax in Canada |
> PS. if Tony K reads this, the 10 foot bounce was due to the fact that the
> ground bounced, not the airplane. (It was downhill and the runway has a
> skijump 100 m into the strip. ) The passenger, Charlie Laverty's lovely
> lady Gilian never knew anything happened so don't tell her, or she won't
> fly with Charlie...... OK?
I even have the photos to prove that it was a three (two?) pointer but the
ski jump bounce was pretty spectacular. You really have to do something about
that bump!!!
> I just mention this to illustrate that the airplane can cope with
> remarkably unsuitable situations. I should perhaps also add that my tongue
> is loosened by Charlie's excellent single malt whiskey.
I can vouch for the whisky (no e - it's Scottish)
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bart Jan Kelter <bart(at)pinewood.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating Engine RPM |
>
> Duncan McFadyean wrote:
> >
> > Using a video camera to check tacho. accuracy is supposed to work very
> > well. This is on the basis that the shutter speed in a video camera is
> > timed at 1/500 sec. ...
>
> Careful, do not assume all have 1/500th second shutter speed. According
> to the July 1997 catalog from B&H Photo/Video in New York (also online
> at www.bhphotovideo.com), all new Sony Video Cameras have multiple
> shutter speeds, and Panasonic PV-A207 has variable speeds between
> 1/100th and 1/10,000th of a second. Descriptions of some other brands of
> video cameras mention "Sports mode", which is a term used to describe
> one of the Sony shutter speed settings.
>
Calibrating the engine with a videocamera does not rely on shutterspeed
but on frames per second, which is 25 if i'm right. The shutterspeed is
the time the shutter is 'opened' to catch one frame. A fast shutterspeed
is usefull to get a sharp picture of the propelor blades.
Bart Jan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <Peter_Thomas(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Price Message (was Hinge Pin Teflon Sleeving) |
To : Tony Renshaw
Subject: Mail: Hinge Pin Teflon Sleeving
I'm trying to find a source for you for the Tefflon tube, but I haven't had
any
luck yet.
<> Happy to do it!
<>
I have the same concern with replacement of hinges, thats why I went to the
tefflon. A friend told me that a the company "Grainger " in the US has this
material but I have their catalog & I can't find the material in it. I
have
a few
more sources to run down before I give up though. The hinge pin material
that
I used was piano wire & I was able to get that at a local hardware store.
<>
I am the person that took my Long-Ez up to 35,027=92 or 10,676m & hold both
the Altitude & Altitude in horizontal World Records for the C1.a
(300-500kg.)
class. Thanks for the congratulations! A friend of mine (Thomas Scherer)
is
building a Europa & I have had the pleasure of meeting it=92s designer at
Oshkosh
this last year. It looks like a wonderful plane & although I=92m not
planning
on
building one, I like the design. Thomas sent me a note from you about the
tefflon hinge material & that is what prompted me to reply. I haven=92t been
on
your web site page yet but Thomas was kind enough to send me your reply
so I could answer back. If you have further questions It might be easier
to
send them to me at hilong(at)AOL.com Be Well & Fly Safely!=85. Jim Price
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Anybody know where in the UK I can buy Aludine?<<
My guess is you might do better in France or Germany. BTW I thought it was
AlOdine.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Replacing Screens |
Dear Martin I have always intended to comment on the Europa forum on the
fact that the flaps have some magic quality or critical diamension which
means that, no mattter how careful I am when moving them I,(or they) always
manage to clobber something with them.
No permanent damage so far really but now they are into their final fit so,
hopefully I can breath again but watch em till you can get them fixed. Ron
S No33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul & Liz Atkinson <Paul_LizAtkinson(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut. |
Graham singleton wrote
>> Since when did clouds obey laws. <<
wot about the laws of physics? :-)
!
HGyHG508AC3
E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 12-Oct-1997
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
I am 80% complete on my Europa and have to date about 400 hours of total
build time. I am sure that I will be able to complete the kit and be
flying in the allotted 500 hours. However, you must understand that this
is not 500 U.S. hours, this is 500 metric hours. The conversion is:
1 Metric hour = 3.5 U.S. hour.
Therefore, I am sure that I will easily be finished in the 500 hour build
time, 500 Metric hours of couse.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Replacing Screens |
>> did high speed taxi (40 kn) today and veered off the runway only once.
===<<
Avoid crosswinds, especially from the left on take off until you are sure
you are in front of the airplane at all times. {;-))
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
Thanks for that - I tracked it down no problem after that.
The only down side is the minimum quantity of 5 + 5 kgs ( 2 part ) or 10
kgs dip.
Ah well it should see me through the next 20 aircraft that I build.
Jerry
> The manufacturer is Henkel. They are a big German chemical manufacturer
and
> have an office in the UK.
>
> Tony
>
> > Anybody know where in the UK I can buy Aludine?
> > 'Spruce and speciality' and the crowd at Henstridge both used to sell
it
> > but because of transport regulations now they don't.
> >
> > I have seen it used on small aluminium parts at it appeared very
effective.
> > Not as good as anodising but a very useful product.
> Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
> Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
> Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
> Auckland New Zealand
>
> Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
> Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
> and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Sound advice for almost all taildraggers! Try a left hand crosswind takeoff
in a Cessna 180 if you enjoy thrills. Definately character building.
Tony
------------------------
From: Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Replacing Screens
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:18:04 +1300
> >> did high speed taxi (40 kn) today and veered off the runway only once.
> ===<<
>
> Avoid crosswinds, especially from the left on take off until you are sure
> you are in front of the airplane at all times. {;-))
>
> Graham
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Wheel Modification |
I had a look at the tailwheel modification as applied to ODTI while I was at
Kirbymoorside last week.
While the modification achieves the desired effect of simplifying takeoff and
landing I am not happy with the way it is being implemented in that I believe
it could lead to early failure of the lowest rudder hinge.
The modification as promulgated by Europa has you completely remove the
existing tailwheel assembly, bring the rudder cables out at the rear of the
fuselage and connect these to a new actuator bar that is fitted to the base
of the rudder. This bar then connects to two cables which, with springs,
turns the tailwheel. The tailwheel itself is supported by a steel bar which
feeds through the rear of the fuselage.
In the previous installation the stress of tailwheel rotation was being
absorbed by the strong bulkhead and now, albeit with some compensation
through the springs, the stress is being absorbed by the rudder hinge.
It would appear that a better way of implementing this modification wouold be
to retain the existing tailwheel shaft and rudder cable connection and fit a
new tailwheel actuator bar in place of the existing tailwheel. In effect the
assembly inside the aircraft would be duplicated outside. The cables to the
new tailwheel would then be run external to the aircraft.
I have ordered a tailwheel modification kit and will have a look at the
practicalities of my suggestions once it arrives.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> Thanks for that - I tracked it down no problem after that.
> The only down side is the minimum quantity of 5 + 5 kgs ( 2 part ) or 10
> kgs dip.
>
> Ah well it should see me through the next 20 aircraft that I build.
>
> Jerry
>
You should also buy some Deoxydine for pre preparation.
Ensure that you neutralise the Alodine waste and dispose of it via a
hazardous waste agency.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe burned through |
In a message dated 12/10/97 12:34:28, Klaus wrote::
<< I recently discovered that two front exhaust pipes (front and rear on left
side) have burned through in their bent radius at the engine side.
I have now 70 hours on the engine and I suppose that it burned through
since the last 10 to 20 hours, >>
After the burn-through alert on lagged systems awhile back, I lagged only to
within 6" of the head, but the bends still look in pretty poor shape after 50
hrs. running. They are not actually burned through but the amount of flaking
makes me think they probably will soon. So perhaps we will all need
stainless bends ! I wonder what was on the prototypes ?
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
I must have missed one. Mod 40 rambles on about Mod 33 (fuel tank drains)
My mod 33 is about firewalls and only distantly or hopefully not at all
connected to the Rotax fuel system Help Ron S no33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe burned through |
Dear Graham it's not so much the prototypes as the earlier kits had stainless
pipes thruout but they tended to fatigue I think certainly such a set failed
(on Euro Ithink)at the Sywell seminar acouple of years ago Ron S No33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Wheel Modification |
>>It would appear that a better way of implementing this modification
wouold be
to retain the existing tailwheel shaft and rudder cable connection and fit
a
new tailwheel actuator bar in place of the existing tailwheel. In effect
the
assembly inside the aircraft would be duplicated outside. The cables to the
new tailwheel would then be run external to the aircraft.<<
This is almost (but not quite) how I plan to do it. A possible snag,
(pointed out by Francis Donaldson) is that when the spring deflects, if the
cables are not running along more or less the same line as the spring there
will be a change in length, which may or may not be accomodated by the
springs.
My plan is to run the steering cables from the original rudder bellcrank,
back through fairleads at the base of the sternpost then down to the wheel.
As soon as Chris has plated my parts I will be at it. I'll let you know how
(or if!?!) it works out.
Watch This space
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
>
> My plan is to run the steering cables from the original rudder bellcrank,
> back through fairleads at the base of the sternpost then down to the wheel.
> As soon as Chris has plated my parts I will be at it. I'll let you know how
> (or if!?!) it works out.
That is even tidier than I thought of and is one less item to catch the grass
on your ski jump.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.fm.intel.com> |
I have been looking at the instructions for the rudder, and after a number of
sketches I think I know what they are trying to tell me to do! I think the
manual need a few more sketches, particularly of the finished part.
Here are a couple bits I am having difficulties with:
"The root should be formed with a complete radius (see figure 4) from the leading
edge diminishing in size to the trailing edge"
I am assuming that "complete radius" means a perfect semi-circle.
"Round off the tip of the rudder core ... matching the your fin tip as closely
as
possible." Since I am getting the XS kit, I don't have a fin to match yet.
Should I put off doing the rudder until I get the fuselage?
"Also round off the leading edge to the tip and root." This could either mean
that I should round off the sharp corner between the leading edge and tip/root
or
that the rounding of the tip and root should be continued part way down the
leading edge. Neither one makes sense, since either possibility would mess up
the nice intersection of the fin to the rudder.
Also, where can I get a list of the mods? Shouldn't I have gotten that with
the manual?
Brian Rauchfuss
brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
glastarnet(at)insync.net, kitfox(at)lists.sni.net, europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
| From: | unick(at)juno.com (Nick Ugolini) |
When I wired my LongEZ, I followed Bob's advice (through personal
discussions with him and his book). I used with FUSES. I loved the
result.
I have talked with aviation shops and found breakers to be highly
unreliable in their protection ability. Conversely every one said a fuse
pops exactly when it is supposed to. I have a bag full of "aviation
brakers" I picked up for wiring my plane and they are still setting on
the shelf.
I elected to go with the B&C fuse block... a 10 and 20 for a total of 30
fuses and their ground strip (I think it has 40+, 1/4" spade push on
connections. The fuse blocks are very small and are located in the nose
of the plane well out of reach.
I have ONE breaker for the alternater field which is "accessible to the
pilot" as required by the FARS for a IFR plane.
I have EVERY single circuit fused. Each selenoid, each radio, gear warn
circuit, the little LEDs for the fuel level lighting, even the instrument
pannel light circuit has its own fuse, and I still have spare fuse
holders. If for some reason I lose a circuit I have got a REAL problem,
and I only lost one circuit, not a bunch of things all hooked up to one
breaker which is how you typically wire a plane.
Think about it, when was the last time you blew a fuse in your car?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Brian Rauchfuss - PCD wrote:
> Should I put off doing the rudder until I get the fuselage?
> YES
>Brian,
I have elected to complete the rudder after fitting the Fin to the Fuselage due
to the
difficulties builders had with this shaping and bonding of the surfaces.Some had
to make
extensive shape alterations to the completed glass surface to obtain the desired
finish
which sounds like hard work. It seems logical to me to have the completed fin and
fuselage in front of you and then shape the foam to the desired finish before covering
it with glass. Some builders even had shortened rudders which can be easily fixed
when
dealing with foam. For what it is worth.
Cheers
Tim
--
Timothy. P. Ward
26 Tomes Road
Papanui,
Christchurch 8005
NEW ZEALAND
PH 64033525726
Fax 64033525726
Email: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Soomi Kim <smkim(at)kari.re.kr> |
Hi,
My name is Soo-Mi Kim working for Korea Aerospace Reserach Institute.
We will plan to join to a project for HALE(High Altitude Long Endurance)
aircraft in near future.
My field is about propulsion system. We must select and purchase the
suitable engine for our HALE aircraft. So, I need some information for
propulsion system of HALE aircraft.
Can I get some specification and performance of the ROTAX engines that
is suitable for the HALE aircraft?
Or do you have any list(including address, fax number, and phone number
or other contact point) of engine manufacturer for HALE aircraft?
If you have any, let me know the information, please.
I will wait for your response. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> I had a look at the tailwheel modification as applied to ODTI while I was at
> Kirbymoorside last week.
>
> While the modification achieves the desired effect of simplifying takeoff and
> landing I am not happy with the way it is being implemented in that I believe
> it could lead to early failure of the lowest rudder hinge.
>
Tony,
Haven't seen the new tailwheel mod.yet however from your observations it may be
that the
rudder hinge for buiders should revert to a full length piano hinge. I am leaning
towards that anyway for strength.
Cheers,
Tim
Timothy. P. Ward
26 Tomes Road
Papanui,
Christchurch 8005
NEW ZEALAND
PH 64033525726
Fax 64033525726
Email: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
I have already decided to go to a full length hinge anyway a la Mr Prout!
Tony
>
>
> Tony,
> Haven't seen the new tailwheel mod.yet however from your observations it
may be that the
> rudder hinge for buiders should revert to a full length piano hinge. I am
leaning
> towards that anyway for strength.
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Stewart <alans(at)kbss.bt.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: LYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
Wehey,
All this talk of exhaust pipe burn-through.
By a curious twist of irony, I just had my first 'in-flight incident' yesterday.On
the way back from Oxford the cabin enviroment suddenly became
'a whole lot noisier'.
I pressed on since engine params. were nominal and executed a normal approach
and landing. Whipping off the top cowl revealed a 360 degree crack around the
circumference of the stbd. front exhaust pipe, where it crosses behind the stbd.
rear. The position of the crack suggests vibration damage to me, as it's right
on the point where the tubes crossover. My vibrating spinner has never been
right and I've often flown without it, though I obviously can't say with any
certainty that it was a contributary factor.
The exhaust is lagged with 'Thermotec' and the engine now reads 133 hours.
On the basis of what I've read, I presumably need to saw off the offending
tube and enlist the services of a tig welder.
alan
> It's my belief also that those of us with a few hours under our belt are
> pretty delighted with our airplanes. They perform very close to "as
> advertised". The fact that it requires real piloting skill on the ground is
I'm very happy with my airplane, but don't wish to be associated (by remaining
silent) with any comment that states that it flys "as advertised". Sorry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | markt(at)avnet.co.uk (Mark Talbot) |
>Some time ago Dave Watts wrote:
>Also available is the Goldwing (Phone 01992524722) unit which is available
>with fittings for the Europa.
I have recently contacted Goldwing about a problem I have had with my twin
strobe installation. Despite the fact that I actually took delivery of the
strobes nearly two years ago - although they have only flown for 35 hours! -
John Bourn has been very helpful about sorting out the problem and is now
looking at the units. When I have further news about this I will post it to
the group. In the meantime I cannot speak more highly about the service
Goldwing are providing.
Mark Talbot (Europa G-BWCV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Peters <smp4(at)maunsell.co.uk> |
Dear Sirs,
I have an enquiry from a senior engineer who requires the name and address
details for DURALAC - the jointing compound.
Could you supply this please for the UK?
Thanks.
Regards,
Susan Peters
Librarian
Maunsell Limited
Newlands House
The Newlands
WITHAM
Essex
email: smp4(at)maunsell.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ng: reverse trim tab. |
Presumably others have noticed that the first action of the movement of the
anti-servotab is an elevator action. Quite disconcerting when trying for
accurate level flight, as there is a noticeable delay before the tailplane
moves as required and the aircraft pitches the other way as demanded. As
this will depend on friction mostly (inertia being small and the same for
all) this could vary between builders, and depend of the state of
lubrication. It would be worth measuring. High static friction would of
course prevent it acting at all. Dynamic friction is not easy to measure on a
limited motion part.
Input of small movements from the switch (a connected but different problem)
would be eased by lowering the motor rate, electrically or mechanically, but
at other times one wants more rapid movement. Perhaps a high rate and a low
rate rocker side by side would be an answer.
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
In a message dated 13/10/97 19:20:55, you Tony wroe:
<< It would appear that a better way of implementing this modification wouold
be
to retain the existing tailwheel shaft and rudder cable connection and fit a
new tailwheel actuator bar in place of the existing tailwheel. >>
GMTA (Great minds think alike ?) Ron S. has discussed the same with our PFA
and expects to get goahead.
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe burned through |
In message <971013163745_1498575039(at)emout14.mail.aol.com>,
Gramin(at)aol.com writes
>After the burn-through alert on lagged systems awhile back, I lagged only to
>within 6" of the head,
Me too - plenty of flaking - no doubt time will tell.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hungry Water |
>OK gang, here's one that ought to be good for a great debate.
>
>I was listening to a car repair show in the radio the other day that had
>a chemist as a guest. They were discussing mineral deposits in the
>radiator. He said not to use distilled water in a radiator because it
>would actually make the problem of mineral deposits worse. This is
>because ( according to him), the water being free of minerals will leach
>minerals out of the engine block and radiator core in an attempt to
>balance the chemistry. He called it "hungry water".
>
>I'll bet someone on the list has an opinion on this.
>
>Ready, set, go....
>
Horse Pucky . . . .
Turbine systems in electric generating plants and ships
go to tremendous lengths to rid boiler water of ALL
things NOT water . . . contaminant ranges from 25 to 50
parts per MILLION are the goals. . . . minerals in the
block? What minerals? I'd like this guy to show me (1) an
metalurgical analysis that shows where these minerals
reside and (2) explain how the molecules "migrate" from
within the alloy to the surface where this "water with
an appetite" is to be fed.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: reverse trim tab. |
In message <971014070052_39176695(at)emout06.mail.aol.com>, Gramin(at)aol.com
writes
>Presumably others have noticed that the first action of the movement of the
>anti-servotab is an elevator action.
I'm not at all sure mine does - certainly it's very sensitive though.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hungry Water |
Iron or aluminum from the block will be taken up by distilled water.
I suspect that this is what he meant by "minerals". The amount that
the water takes up is so small that it seems ridiculous to claim
that any damage could result.
> >OK gang, here's one that ought to be good for a great debate.
> >
> >I was listening to a car repair show in the radio the other day that had
> >a chemist as a guest. They were discussing mineral deposits in the
> >radiator. He said not to use distilled water in a radiator because it
> >would actually make the problem of mineral deposits worse. This is
> >because ( according to him), the water being free of minerals will leach
> >minerals out of the engine block and radiator core in an attempt to
> >balance the chemistry. He called it "hungry water".
> >
> >I'll bet someone on the list has an opinion on this.
> >
> >Ready, set, go....
> >
> Horse Pucky . . . .
>
> Turbine systems in electric generating plants and ships
> go to tremendous lengths to rid boiler water of ALL
> things NOT water . . . contaminant ranges from 25 to 50
> parts per MILLION are the goals. . . . minerals in the
> block? What minerals? I'd like this guy to show me (1) an
> metalurgical analysis that shows where these minerals
> reside and (2) explain how the molecules "migrate" from
> within the alloy to the surface where this "water with
> an appetite" is to be fed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
>> it may be that the rudder hinge for buiders should revert to a full
length piano hinge. I am leaning
towards that anyway for strength.<<
Imho that is only a small part of the problem. Don't forget the strength of
the the rest of the structure. The biggest loads are likely to come from
the pilot's feet, both pushing hard ?:-(
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: reverse trim tab. |
Mike Ds Europa does not seem to exibit any tendancy to go the wrong way so
far as I remember but we always adjust trim in a series of small jabs.
(probably a good idea as that way you get early warning of trim runaway due
to switch malfunction)((terrifying thought!!!!!!!)) Ron S N0 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: reverse trim tab. |
> Mike Ds Europa does not seem to exibit any tendancy to go the wrong way
so
> far as I remember but we always adjust trim in a series of small jabs.
> (probably a good idea as that way you get early warning of trim runaway due
> to switch malfunction)((terrifying thought!!!!!!!)) Ron S N0 33
Just an idle thought.... has anyone actually landed a Europa with the trim
a) fully up
or
b) fully down
to emulate a trim runaway
Could be an "interesting" exercise for someone. :-)
Tony
ps Don't come running to me if you dent your plane!!
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Time for a bit of humour,
The 25 Greatest Lies in Aviation
>
> I'm from the CAA and I'm here to help you.
> They wouldn't make it mandatory if no-one could afford it
> We will be on time, maybe even early.
> I fixed it right the first time, it must have failed
> for other reasons.
> I didn't fly up into cloud, it came down around me.
> All that turbulence spoiled my landing.
> I'm a member of the mile high club.
> I only need glasses for reading.
> The weather is gonna be alright; it's clearing to VFR.
> Don't worry about the weight and balance -- it'll fly.
> If we get a little lower I think we'll see the lights.
> I'm 22, got 6000 hours, a four year degree and 3000 hours in a Lear
> Jet.
> We shipped the part yesterday.
> I'd love to have a woman co-pilot.
> Oh sure, no problem, I've got over 2000 hours in that aircraft.
> No need to look that up, I've got it all memorized.
> Sure I can fly it -- it has wings, doesn't it?
> Your plane will be ready by 2 o'clock.
> I'm always glad to see the CAA.
> We fly every day -- we don't need recurrent training.
> I thought YOU took care of that.
> I've got the field in sight.
> I've got the traffic in sight.
> Of course I know where we are.
> I'm SURE the gear was down.
>
--
Timothy. P. Ward
26 Tomes Road
Papanui,
Christchurch 8005
NEW ZEALAND
PH 64033525726
Fax 64033525726
Email: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
>>Ron S. has discussed the same with our PFA and expects to get goahead.<<
So have I.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
>>I'm very happy with my airplane, but don't wish to be associated (by
remaining
silent) with any comment that states that it flys "as advertised". Sorry <<
I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been surprised
by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
differences.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ng: reverse trim tab. |
>>Presumably others have noticed that the first action of the movement of
the
anti-servotab is an elevator action.<<
As you noted, more marked with higher friction. The Banbi has the same anti
balance tab but uses variable spring bias to give pitch trim. The friction
is likely to be lower because it doesn't have the large bushes we do.
New builders note, make absolutely certain your elavator torque tube has
almost zero friction. This is achieved before the top goes on the fuselage
with judicious extra stiffening of the shell.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
> I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been surprised
> by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
> apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
> other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
> I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
> differences.
Can you make any suggestions on what to look out for? Since I am just
beginning, it might be nice to know some possible performance enhancers.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Graham Singleton wrote:
> >>I'm very happy with my airplane, but don't wish to be associated (by
> remaining
> silent) with any comment that states that it flys "as advertised". Sorry <<
>
> I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been surprised
> by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
> apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
> other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
> I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
> differences.
> Graham
I have always wondered how true to the design airfoil profile you could
build a hot wired foam core wing when you weren't given coordinates or
templates for key stations. Dr. Selig at the University of Illinois,
co-designer of the NLF(1)-0115 airfoil that I think is very similar to
Don Dykins Europa Airfoil, is very annimate about the accuracy necessary
to achieve all of the design characteristics of any given airfoil.
Could it be that there are 400 or so diffrent airfoils on the different
Europas? Sure would like to see some airfoil measurements from the
fastest and slowest planes. Boeing uses my Statistical Process Control
software to monitor the process variations in the manufacture of many of
the composite components for the 757, 767, 777 and V-22 Osprey. I know
their tolerances are FAR greater than a builder can achieve without any
specifications to build to.
Steve Eberhart
newtech(at)newtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>
> Can you make any suggestions on what to look out for? Since I am just
> beginning, it might be nice to know some possible performance enhancers.
Weight, weight and weight would be the first three items on the list followed
by aerodynamic cleanliness! Fat planes don't fly fast.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
I had hoped Europa's tailwheel update would be something like a bolt in
replacement assembly with a longer swing arm and perhaps torsion springs to
partially decouple its steering from the rudder. Or alternatively a new
shaft for the existing tailwheel fixture with a second bellcrank on the lower
end (within the fuselage) to drive the new tailwheel via springs.
I assumed the approach described, with the cables from the pedals terminating
at the rudder, was for testing and that a more elegant approach would be used
in XS production and for retrofits.
The larger question is whether this is the beginning of a real separation
between the original Europa and the XS, something which is almost certain to
happen at some point. If the XS uses a center hinged rudder with sturdier
hinges to facilitate this approach then it will point more strongly to a
separation between generations. It will be interesting to see if this is
followed by reduced support for the original, e.g. reduction or cessation of
manual updates for the original with updates for XS's only.
I look forward to hearing more about Graham's approach to the tailwheel.
John A044
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
>
..... I assumed the approach described, with the cables from the pedals
terminating at the rudder, was for testing and that a more elegant approach
would be used in XS production and for retrofits.
Join the club
>
> The larger question is whether this is the beginning of a real separation
> between the original Europa and the XS, something which is almost certain
to happen at some point. If the XS uses a center hinged rudder with sturdier
> hinges to facilitate this approach then it will point more strongly to a
> separation between generations. It will be interesting to see if this is
> followed by reduced support for the original, e.g. reduction or cessation
of manual updates for the original with updates for XS's only.
I don't think the XS does use a centre hinged rudder. The fin moulding that I
saw last week would seem to point towards a side mounted rudder of the same
form factor as the Mark 1.
I think it would be a long time before Europa ceased updates for the Mark 1.
After all there are only 50 or so flying out of 400 kits sold. People are
going to be building Mark 1's for quite a few years and there are certainly
going to be modifications that will occur as more machines get in the air.
When you take a good look at the XS there are actually very few variations
between it and the Mark 1 that cannot be easily implemented as modifications.
The XS wing build technique is fine if your primary interest is getting in
the air rather than having the satisfaction of having built it yourself.
Looking back on it I am glad I built the wings myself.
The integral fin on the upper moulding is a very good move as fitting this
seems to have caused some consternation to builders. I must say that the
mouldings look superb with their gel coat finish, in fact they look
remarkably like an overgrown Airfix model kit. The only thing that is missing
is a matching piece of sprue and the part number moulded on the inside! Maybe
we can convince Europa to give us a diagram showing us which parts to paint
before assembly :-)
The new cowlings, while not as pretty as the Mark 1, do increase performance
and are now supplied with the firewall forward kit. I have ordered them as
part of the firewall forward kit for my 914 (Yes I finally decided on an
engine!). I had a real battle trying to decide whether or not to put the new
cowlings on or whether to retain the impeccable good looks of the Mark 1. In
the end performance won.
The bulkhead modification certainly opens up the interior of the aircraft.
Europa's mod kit price does seem a bit steep at GBP400 though you can do this
yourself if you don't mind carving! The fuel tank filler moves on the XS and
with the modification to be on the upper quarter of the starboard side.
I don't particularly like the new centre console but only because you lose
all of the jotter pad space. Fitting carpet over the new centre console could
be an interesting task!
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
Got me kit, done the impossible glassing but not sure how to treat the spring
it looks as if it has been heat treated in some sort of salt bath and looks
good but I suspect that it will rust. I do not fancy plating it but I fear
that paint will not last long on it. Any ideas. By the way why such a
humungasly heavy wheel can we drill some holes to lighten the tyre a bit. Ron
S No 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: COZY: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
Nick Ugolin writes
Murphey's Law will prevail, what can go wrong, will go wrong. One of the main failure
modes
of fuses is vibration with the little wire breaking. I have replaced more than
my share of
glass cylindrical fuses on autos, trucks, and farm equipment wher there was no
electrical
fault. Just replaced the fuse, and worked for years. Also I usually have dropsy
in flight
and in turbulence at night I would anyday go for the circuit breaker. I have replaced
1 in
500 hours.
Carl Denk: "cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel kit. |
By the way why such a humungasly heavy wheel can we drill some holes to
lighten the tyre a bit.
Quit complaining. At least you won't fly nose heavy any more :-)
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim Price Message (was Hinge Pin Teflon Sleeving) |
Peter Thomas wrote:
>
> To : Tony Renshaw
> Subject: Mail: Hinge Pin Teflon Sleeving
>
> I'm trying to find a source for you for the Tefflon tube, but I haven't had
> any
> luck yet.
> <> Happy to do it!
>
Call Manhattan Supply Co. (MSC) at 1-800-645-7270 and ask for catalog.
All kinds of materials and tools.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: request for help |
Soomi Kim wrote:
>
> Hi,
> My name is Soo-Mi Kim working for Korea Aerospace Reserach Institute.
> We will plan to join to a project for HALE(High Altitude Long Endurance)
> aircraft in near future.
> My field is about propulsion system. We must select and purchase the
> suitable engine for our HALE aircraft. So, I need some information for
> propulsion system of HALE aircraft.
> Can I get some specification and performance of the ROTAX engines that
> is suitable for the HALE aircraft?
> Or do you have any list(including address, fax number, and phone number
> or other contact point) of engine manufacturer for HALE aircraft?
> If you have any, let me know the information, please.
> I will wait for your response. Thank you.
WHICH KOREA?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
JohnJMoran(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I had hoped Europa's tailwheel update would be something like a bolt in
> replacement assembly with a longer swing arm and perhaps torsion springs to
> partially decouple its steering from the rudder. Or alternatively a new
> shaft for the existing tailwheel fixture with a second bellcrank on the lower
> end (within the fuselage) to drive the new tailwheel via springs.
>
> I assumed the approach described, with the cables from the pedals terminating
> at the rudder, was for testing and that a more elegant approach would be used
> in XS production and for retrofits.
>
> The larger question is whether this is the beginning of a real separation
> between the original Europa and the XS, something which is almost certain to
> happen at some point. If the XS uses a center hinged rudder with sturdier
> hinges to facilitate this approach then it will point more strongly to a
> separation between generations. It will be interesting to see if this is
> followed by reduced support for the original, e.g. reduction or cessation of
> manual updates for the original with updates for XS's only.
>
> I look forward to hearing more about Graham's approach to the tailwheel.
>
> John A044
Thinking more and more of a ballistic parachute system...just in case!?!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
Brian Rauchfuss - PCD wrote:
>
> > I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been surprised
> > by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
> > apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
> > other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
> > I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
> > differences.
>
> Can you make any suggestions on what to look out for? Since I am just
> beginning, it might be nice to know some possible performance enhancers.
>
> Brian
#1. Surface finish.
#2. Surface finish.
#3. Surface finish.
If you can't read your wristwatch in the reflection of wings and
fuselage, etc., you can expect great performance; just don't be
surprised if you don't get it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
Steven A Eberhart wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> > >>I'm very happy with my airplane, but don't wish to be associated (by
> > remaining
> > silent) with any comment that states that it flys "as advertised". Sorry <<
> >
> > I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been surprised
> > by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
> > apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
> > other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
> > I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
> > differences.
> > Graham
>
> I have always wondered how true to the design airfoil profile you could
> build a hot wired foam core wing when you weren't given coordinates or
> templates for key stations. Dr. Selig at the University of Illinois,
> co-designer of the NLF(1)-0115 airfoil that I think is very similar to
> Don Dykins Europa Airfoil, is very annimate about the accuracy necessary
> to achieve all of the design characteristics of any given airfoil.
>
> Could it be that there are 400 or so diffrent airfoils on the different
> Europas? Sure would like to see some airfoil measurements from the
> fastest and slowest planes. Boeing uses my Statistical Process Control
> software to monitor the process variations in the manufacture of many of
> the composite components for the 757, 767, 777 and V-22 Osprey. I know
> their tolerances are FAR greater than a builder can achieve without any
> specifications to build to.
>
> Steve Eberhart
> newtech(at)newtech.com
So, where does one go to obtain station points/measurements for the
airfoil in question?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
glastarnet(at)insync.net, kitfox(at)lists.sni.net
| Subject: | Re: COZY: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> Nick Ugolin writes unreliable >
> Murphey's Law will prevail, what can go wrong, will go wrong. One of the main
failure modes
> of fuses is vibration with the little wire breaking. I have replaced more than
my share of
> glass cylindrical fuses on autos, trucks, and farm equipment wher there was no
electrical
> fault. Just replaced the fuse, and worked for years. Also I usually have dropsy
in flight
> and in turbulence at night I would anyday go for the circuit breaker. I have
replaced 1 in
> 500 hours.
>
> Carl Denk: "cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com"
Capture a fuse block from newer American design cars using plastic fuse
plug with "Z" shaped fuse link. NO CHANCE of those suffering vibration
breakage. The amount of vibration required would most assuredly shake
the plane to pieces first!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
>I have an enquiry from a senior engineer who requires the name and address
>details for DURALAC - the jointing compound.
>Could you supply this please for the UK?
Price is =A32.96 plus VAT.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Stewart <alans(at)kbss.bt.co.uk> |
> by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
> apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed
Pete Clark's Flight report on G-YURO
http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk/testyuro.htm, Section 5.8
I'm reckon my figures would be within a KNOT OR TWO of these. I wouldn't want
a takeoff RPM of 4600 though. Runway ain't long enough.
Also, if I can reduce consumption to '9 ltr/hr' at 130 knots, I'll make
the point of firewalling the engine every time !!
Anybody know what the prop/setting was ? I can't relate to '145o'.
alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: reverse trim tab. |
In message <199710141844_MC2-23E8-E2A0(at)compuserve.com>, Graham Singleton
<100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> writes
>New builders note, make absolutely certain your elavator torque tube has
>almost zero friction
Try using a high content Molybdenum Disulphide lubricant as well.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: reverse trim tab. |
>>Just an idle thought.... has anyone actually landed a Europa with the
trim
b) fully down<<
I'm told by Ivan that this is what you should do if the plane is nose
heavy. Dunno if he (or Pete Clarke) ever tried it. Conversely, if one tried
to land fully trimmed for the glide and nose heavy, Don's slide rule says
that one would run out of elevator authority. One would find out that way,
wouldn't one? Explain the bounce {:-)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tank calibration |
Depth calibration for the large tank (applicable up to around Serial no. 100
)
for scaling depth measuring systems, e.g capacitance, float, pipette.
Inches to surface of fuel measured from a datum 2" above the cockpiit module
top surface. The actual height of the level in a full tank will vary
individually depending on the fit into the cockpit module. This is a "one
side" measurement, so the reserve remains in the opposite side where the top
section of the graph applies, apart from a small difference due to the
asymmetric profile of the tunnel.
Points were measured every 4 litres (every litre below the tunnel level) but
only the turning points due to the change in section of the tank are shown.
Straight lines drawn between them will give the intermediate values, or the
inset formulae.
0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70
litres (L)
in | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
18-o
|--
unusable
17-
16- 0 to 10 ltrs
|
15- in=18- 0.6xL
14-
|
13-
12- o
|
11-
10
|
9- 10 to 40 ltrs
8- in=12-(L-10)/5
|
7-
6- o
|
5-
4- 40 to 60 ltrs
|
3- in=6-4x(L-40)/30 o
_ full
2-
|
1-
0-
|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
|-----|
0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70
litres (L)
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <Halcrow_MRO(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | een Doors - 2 ?? |
"......2 layers of BID on door frame stiffeners....." the manual I have
says 3.
An overhead panel, if made of something thin, can also be captivated by the
door seals.
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ormance variations |
<< I've flown several Europas, (not including Alan's ) and have been
surprised
by the wide variation in performance. At one end Kim Prout and his
apparently "standard" ship which achieves 150 kts full speed and at the
other G-KITS which seems to have a built in headwind.
I scratch my head but have yet to discover a simple or single reason for
differences.
Graham
____________________________________________________________ >>
on rc models we found the wings to be the answer.
we used to have a contest every year which was flown by using the same type
of model. the differences in performances were realy great. there was one
which stood out big time. this builder used templetes to get the airfoil as
perfect as he could over the entire wing.
he could not be beat.
reiner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
> > Can you make any suggestions on what to look out for? Since I am just
> > beginning, it might be nice to know some possible performance
enhancers.
>
> Weight, weight and weight would be the first three items on the list
followed
> by aerodynamic cleanliness! Fat planes don't fly fast.
>
> Tony
Whilst being one of the worlds greatest fans of light weight aircraft and
in the process of building the worlds lightest 912 powered kit plane the
notion that weight effects speed does ring all the right bells. It
certainaly effects climb which is directly effected by aircraft weight but
there seems to be little difference on the maximum speed of heavy Europas
against light Europas. In terms of speed I think the aerodynamic
cleanliness is the important factor possibly effected also by the accuracy
of the arofoils achieved by the builders. The greatest variation may be in
the measurement of the aircraft speed. In the fullness of time some
differences may come to light when builders have correlated GPS readings to
ASI
Light aircraft may fly faster when the wings etc have been reduced in size
to carry the reduced weight.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
>>The new cowlings, while not as pretty as the Mark 1, do increase
performance <<
Really? I can't think why. Maybe it's the 914.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> I wouldn't want a takeoff RPM of 4600 though.<<
Neither would I. I might guess that the Rotax rev counter on YURO was under
reading. The one on GK Whip never agrees with our digital, it's variable
but always under reads by at least 200 rpm.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <Halcrow_MRO(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating Engine RPM |
Thanks for the notes on video camera shutter speeds.
Can anyone comment on just how accurate the frame frequency is and
therefore how reliable the technique is?
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
I'm learning how to use a new mail program (I was using WinCIM
before OSH and taking all of my list-server traffic through
Compuserve.
Trying to reduce costs and consolodate our activies, I've
re-subscribed to the list-servers using our website address.
I THOUGHT I was taking advantage of a neat feature in Eudora
with their Carbon Copy of messages to multiple receivers. On
some topics, I have the same topic running on several servers
and it would save me a few keystrokes.
To my dismay, it appears that people's replies to my messages
are ALSO carbon copied to the same people in my carbon copy
list. This was a totally unexpected result and I appologize
for the snowstorm of traffic this caused recently. I've
discontinued this practice. It was my intention that I be
the single focal point for replies and where approrpriate,
I will distill multiple comments into more compact segments
for futher discussion and distribution.
Thanks for your patience folks . . . I'll learn how to run
this thing eventually.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
Sorry that should have read
> Whilst being one of the worlds greatest fans of light weight aircraft and
> in the process of building the worlds lightest 912 powered kit plane the
> notion that weight effects speed does NOT ring all the right bells. It
> certainaly effects climb which is directly effected by aircraft weight
but
> there seems to be little difference on the maximum speed of heavy Europas
> against light Europas. In terms of speed I think the aerodynamic
> cleanliness is the important factor possibly effected also by the
accuracy
> of the arofoils achieved by the builders. The greatest variation may be
in
> the measurement of the aircraft speed. In the fullness of time some
> differences may come to light when builders have correlated GPS readings
to
> ASI
>
> Light aircraft may fly faster when the wings etc have been reduced in
size
> to carry the reduced weight.
>
> Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <Halcrow_MRO(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ust pipe burned through |
My understanding is that glass-based insulants should not be placed in
contact with stainless steel above 500C, otherwise the S/S is eroded.
This was the subject of a FAA alert a few years back and was reported in
the back of Gasil.
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ormance variations |
>> this builder used templetes to get the airfoil as perfect as he could
over the entire wing.
he could not be beat.<<
You could be right. Trouble is Europa haven't given us either a coordinates
or accuracy requirements. Be nice if we had 3 templates, wouldn't it.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ust pipe burned through |
>>My understanding is that glass-based insulants should not be placed in
contact with stainless steel above 500C, otherwise the S/S is eroded.<<
I'm sure you are right, however , it's the mild steel pipes that are
burning through. In my experience, based on those wise few soles who have
EGT guages, 912s tend to run very high EGT. Typically above 850 deg C.
(1560 deg F)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
>>So, where does one go to obtain station points/measurements for the
airfoil in question?<<
Ask Europa for a paper copy of the 3 accurate templates they now have for
the XS wing. At least 2 of them will do for us with Mk I wings. I guess the
tip core will do for the other one.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
>> It will be interesting to see if this is
>> followed by reduced support for the original, e.g. reduction or cessation
>> of manual updates for the original with updates for XS's only.
>I think it would be a long time before Europa ceased updates for the Mark 1.
I agree. Let's face it, have Europa shown any sign of not giving us full
support throughout, with full updates etc. supplied.
>The XS wing build technique is fine if your primary interest is getting in
>the air rather than having the satisfaction of having built it yourself.
>Looking back on it I am glad I built the wings myself.
Me too, I enjoyed the whole process and learnt a lot as well. In fact I am
convinced that if Europa were to effer both the pre built and build it
yourself wing (obviously at a price differential) then in England they would
sell more build it yourself versions. We are a nation of tinkerers.
Dave Watts 229.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: performance variations |
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> >> this builder used templetes to get the airfoil as perfect as he could
> over the entire wing.
> he could not be beat.<<
>
> You could be right. Trouble is Europa haven't given us either a coordinates
> or accuracy requirements. Be nice if we had 3 templates, wouldn't it.
> Graham
But, if we have a name for the airfoil, we should be able to get
stations and profiles, stats for each station, n'est ce pas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
>>>So, where does one go to obtain station points/measurements for the
>airfoil in question?<<
>Ask Europa for a paper copy of the 3 accurate templates they now have for
>the XS wing. At least 2 of them will do for us with Mk I wings. I guess the
>tip core will do for the other one.
>Graham
I know this means you are going to have to wait a couple of weeks but the
R/C Scale Aircraft magazine are doing a follow up to their last issue where
they featured our aircraft and a free plan 50inch span madel. The next issue
issue, due out on November 5th contains a feature on the factory and comes
complete with proper scale drawing including wing and fuselage templetes. I
don't know if they will be good enough for our 1:1 models though.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re: performance variations |
>>> this builder used templetes to get the airfoil as perfect as he could
>over the entire wing.
>he could not be beat.<<
>
>You could be right. Trouble is Europa haven't given us either a coordinates
>or accuracy requirements. Be nice if we had 3 templates, wouldn't it.
>Graham
Yes this would be nice because without a tip template I don't see how you
can accurately check the washout as called for in the final inspection.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! |
>G'day all
>
>Well, the day has finally arrived. The first stage of 'XS' kit No 356 has
>arrived at my front door step in the land downunder. The kit arrived as I
>was moving into my new home and luckily, I had a few extra hands to lift it
>off the truck. One of the attractions of the new home is that there is an
>extra 3 car brick structure on the property, which has now been formally
>christened the 'aircraft hanger'.
>
>Unfortunately, I have 3 weeks of solid work in front of me, so I will wait
>until I can give this box of glue and cloth my undivided attention before
>getting really excited. I have been practicing my epoxying techniques a
>little by helping a friend build a 37' trimiran and as he is very
>experienced in this area, I have agreed to allow him to help me with the
>Europa. (At least if it doesn't fly very well it should float superbly).
>
>I'm really looking forward to finding out what all the fuss is about and no
>doubt I'll be on the lookout for some helpful tips from those generous
>souls that have blazed the trail before me.
>
>Regards
>
>Warren Webb
>builder No (XS) 356
>
>
>Dear Warren,
You finally got it. I am convinced that you are really looking forward to
get starting on it. I understand that you have to be patient for another 3
weeks, however may I advice you to check if the crate and bits are all
included and have not been damaged during transportation.
I wish you all the best and hope you to hear from your progress in the very
near future. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require any
further details or for technical support.
Kindest regards
Lauren Charvet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 15/10/97 10:58:12, you write:
<< Weight, weight and weight would be the first three items on the list
followed
by aerodynamic cleanliness! Fat planes don't fly fast. >>
See my comment re the weight of the tailwheel which you brushed off???? Ron
S N033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D.Howard(at)kid0110.wins.icl.co.uk |
| Subject: | ): New Tailwheel but really Wings |
>Me too, I enjoyed the whole process and learnt a lot as well. In fact I am
>convinced that if Europa were to effer both the pre built and build it
>yourself wing (obviously at a price differential) then in England they would
>sell more build it yourself versions. We are a nation of tinkerers.
>Dave Watts 229.
Let's put it to the test. I have a 'classic' wing still in it's box.
Anyone interested in building it rather than the new pre-mould, and
saving themselves some money feel free to make me an offer.
- Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jac.Vanheeswijk" <Jac.Vanheeswijk(at)net.HCC.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: R/C Scale Aircraft Magazine |
> I know this means you are going to have to wait a couple of weeks but the
> R/C Scale Aircraft magazine are doing a follow up to their last issue where
> they featured our aircraft and a free plan 50inch span madel. The next issue
> issue, due out on November 5th contains a feature on the factory and comes
> complete with proper scale drawing including wing and fuselage templetes. I
> don't know if they will be good enough for our 1:1 models though.
> Dave Watts.
>
David, will you communicate me the address and telephone number of the R/C Scale
Aircraft Magazine, eventually the way how to order back issues. Maybe for people
from
the UK this is a well known magazine, but I am doubting wether it is sold here
in the
Netherlands. I would like to order back issues of Oktober and November, this scale
model
of the Europa seems to be interesting. Thanks in advance. Jack.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Boggs <74164.3224(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! |
Warren, you lucky guy. You have been able to wait for the new kit. I
understand that it is much roomier and will be faster to build. I hope
that you don't finish before I do. Best of luck.
Larry Boggs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with media . . . |
>Joe Colquitt wrote:
>>
>> CNN's report on the Denver crash (posted this morning) is attached.
>> My concern over this crash, aside from the loss of life, is the same
>> as in any aviation event involving "small" or "experimental" planes:
>> People jump to the conclusion that we're a bunch of daredevils,
>> risk-takers, over-achievers, death-defiers, etc.
>
>How about "Fools"? or "Incompetents"? I have had personal knowledge of
>several events that have been later reported by the press. In every
>single case the stories have been incorrect, unfavorable, or both. When
>an attempt is made to correct their reporting, the correction may be
>acknowledged but it never makes its way to the front of the paper (or
>radio story, or TV news program).
. . .
There's an interesting difference I've noted in media coverage of the
John Denver accident. . . there's a great deal of POSITIVE coverage
of amateur-built aviation as well. Saw a fairly long piece on Public
Eye last night wherein the reporter including footage and comments on
his OWN ride in the back seat of a Long-Ez! He was grinning ear to ear
and explaining how this experience was almost spiritual. Many others
on the net including AVSIG on Compuserve are reporting a phenomenal
number of neutral to positive informational pieces on amateur built
planes. Don't know about you but I certainly don't recall this kind
of consideration in the past.
I heard a news piece yesterday and I'm sorry, I cannot quote the original
source but the gist of it was this: At some time in the not too distant
future, news services are going to REQUIRE that reporters have some
education in the disiplines they expect to cover. I was astounded!
What a concept. Could it be that someone should actually know what they
were talking about?
To date, a degree in communications or media production gets you a job
as informant to the world. What I've seen and heard over the past
few days is encouraging . . . especially because it's those poor
ignorant souls in congress that depend so much on what the media
prints for their decision-driving data. I think we have reason,
at least today, to be optomistic! But DON'T take the pressure off!
I wrote our local newspaper yesterday for calling the Long an
"ultralight" and this paper is home base for Dave Higgdon, a noted
aviation writer! Keep whacking them where it's called for . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
Airplane design and construction is far more complicated than I originally
gave it credit for. Differences in performance could arise from a vast
number of sources and discerning which variables are important is difficult.
I saw an article which said that Vari-Eze's varied much more in performance,
one to the next, than Long-Eze's, apparently because the Vari-Eze's were more
sensitive to build variations.
I expect that the Europa wing is relatively tolerant to minor variations in
contour since it has been designed to be tolerant to bugs and rain. In this
area, I haven't seen mention of contouring the foam before glassing. I noted
that the foam wing sections did not fit together perfectly in that adjacent
sections were slightly different in size, leaving a lip of a few thousandths
at each joint. In addition, there was a noticeable curve in each foam block;
a straightedge across the top of a block showed a low spot in the center
while a straightedge across the bottom of a block showed a high spot in the
center. This curvature is apparently due to catenary sag of the wire while
hot wiring the foam rather than stresses in the foam. I spoke with Roger
Sheridan about this and he said to use a 3 foot straightedge to judge
discontinuities and to profile the foam to reduce the maximum error to 1/64
inch. He said that each hour spent profiling the foam would save 10 hours
profiling the filler. My profiling tool was 2.5" wide 1/2" thick and 3 feet
long with a 9 inch piece of #100 sandpaper in the middle. The wood was
slightly bowed lengthwise; the sandpaper was placed in the concavity so that
it didn't touch unless slight pressure was applied. The wood was recessed
slightly at the ends of the sandpaper to prevent them digging in. This tool
worked amazingly well and allowed profiling the front or back half of a wing
in less than two hours, most of which time was spent with an aluminum
straightedge judging progress. The difference as judged by eye, as well as by
straightedge and by fishline was quite noticeable. I haven't filled the wings
yet so can't say how they will look ultimately.
Now, I wonder if I affected the efficiency of my airfoils and if so was it
for good or bad?
Did anyone else profile their foam or is it just me? Why isn't it mentioned
in the manual?
I wonder how much of the performance difference being discussed is due to the
build process vs aerodynamic cleanup. I saw Kim Prout's machine at Copper
State '96 and it had quite a number of minor details which aren't part of the
standard Europa and I'm sure more have been added in the last year. Kim's
father is an aeronautical engineer and I think Kim has used that to advantage
in his drag reduction program along with a lot of enthusiasm and hard work.
Graham's machine also performs well and he also has gone a bit beyond the
norm on drag reduction.
Speed measurement itself is subject to so many variables that the only real
way to compare aircraft is side by side and then only after comparing
tachometers. Perhaps Alan and Graham can get together sometime for an in the
air comparison plus an on the ground comparison of cleanup efforts. Easy for
me to waste their time and fuel, I suppose, but it seems that there is much
to be learned here.
Regards, John A044 Newtown, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank calibration |
Sorry the graph ASCII graph didn't come out as I sent it - seems to have
extra and spurious CRLF's about. Best to plot the three formulae.
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
>
> Me too, I enjoyed the whole process and learnt a lot as well. In fact I am
> convinced that if Europa were to effer both the pre built and build it
> yourself wing (obviously at a price differential) then in England they
would
> sell more build it yourself versions. We are a nation of tinkerers.
Not just in the UK. What about it Europa. How about retaining the original
wing kit for those builders who want to do the work themselves for the
challenge.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>
> See my comment re the weight of the tailwheel which you brushed off????
touche :-)
Damn I hate people with memories.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | trouble with "itty-bitty" fuses |
>Bob Kunkolls writes
>I have a hard time changing them in my Fords (I am assuming thats the
type). How dow you
>change them without special tools or long fingernails?
>
>Carl Denk: "cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com"
Carl,
The off-the-shelf fuseblocks I stock and recommend have pretty
generous spacing between devices. A two row by 10 slot fuse holder
has a mounted footprint of about 3" x 5". You may be confusing
the ATC series fuses with a later, subminiature fuse (ATO?)
showing up on some cars. These fuses are indeed more difficult
to work with from a maintenance standpoint. A few of my readers
have used these fuses in thier airplanes by salvaging a fuse-holder
and harness from an automobile. The result was a VERY compact installation.
I don't recommend this because you have to salvage the existing harness
and use butt-splices to incorporate it into your airplane.
The fuseholders I'm talking about will appear shortly in our
catalog at . I'm
a little miffed that the mail order houses haven't caught on with
this product. Right now, distributors want to sell you a box of
10 fuse holders. I asked B&C to stock them several years ago and
we'll be stocking them shortly. Take a look at the pictures,
I think you'll find that concerns you wrote about are nicely
addressed.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I expect that the Europa wing is relatively tolerant to minor variations
in
contour since it has been designed to be tolerant to bugs and rain. In
this
area, I haven't seen mention of contouring the foam before glassing.<<
I agree with most of John J Moran's remarks. I do like to correct any
faults in the foam before glassing. This is probably what Roger meant, it's
much easier to reshape foam than glass or filler. However: a few
thoughts:--
1 spanwise lack of straightness is only of cosmetic importance except
insofar as it affects incidence.
2 chordwise waviness IS important, rule of thumb, no more than .003" feeler
under a steel rule pressed down with the fingers 2" apart anywhere forward
of the main spar, top or bottom.
3 camber is important, and hard to check because they didn't give us
templates. Yet? Not a lot of good if the tip and root are OK but the rest
of the wing is wrong due to foam warpage.
4 IMHO the nose radius of the airfoil and its position in relation to the
camber ? chord line.
5 Laminar flow is important on top and bottom of the wing.
6 Control gap seals might help.
Any comments Kim Prout? Give my regards to Paul.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | not just fuses vs. breakers . . . |
>I have yet to meet another A&P, FAA rep, or EAA Tech coun. that agrees
>with Bob on remotely located fuses. That doesn't make his opinion wrong,
>just different than my data base and personal position.
>
I haven't met any either. Nor have I met one that goes through
a dozen journals a month, participates in direct contact with
over 100 active builders, sorts through up to 200 pieces of
e-mail a day (10% of which has to do with electrical systems
but many more deal with SYSTEM reliability) or writes 20+
articles a year thrown out in print or on the web for critical
review. The grey-beards can and do offer a tremendous
resource for supporting "how-it-used-to-be" airplanes. If
amateur builders wanted that kind of airplane, they probably
would have bought one.
>When I was on active duty in the USAF, we saved an average of one
>mission a month by being able to reset the breaker and continue. A
>couple of times a year this ability saved the acft. As you can see, I am
>biased based on real experience (USAF and 3 personal cases in civil
>acf), and all the numbers games in the world will not change my mind.
>Sure breakers trip when they shouldn't, and they are "on paper" less
>reliable than fuses. But I never heard of one totally failing open when
>the downstream device was good.
Again, no argument for an airplane that was architectured in 1950s
technologies with flight systems that were in themselves so
hazardous to flight that pilot intervention was necessary and
good. My goal is not to champion or bash any particular kind
of hardware . . . rather to change the way we think about how
airplanes are put together and what's expected of a pilot to
operate the things; breaking free of the FAA/Military reverence
for regulation and tradition in systems design.
Some ideas are good, some don't matter, some will be discarded
as non-productive but the last thing we should accept is the
notion anything is protected from CHANGE . . we don't need anyone's
blessing to evolve in positive ways. My personal definition
of positive includes adjectives like, lower costs, equal or
better performance, easier to maintain, easier to install,
and FAILURE TOLERANT. Any failure that puts the pilot
in a position of having to be systems analysis or mechanic in
flight needs to be redesigned eliminate the problem. You couldn't
tell that to your line-chief on the B52 or a Piper service manager
on your Cherokee but you can sure do it on the airplane in your garage!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: COZY: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
To Carl Denk:
You write: One of the main failure modes of fuses is vibration with the
little wire breaking. I have replaced more than my share of glass cylindrical
fuses on autos, trucks, and farm equipment wher there was no electrical
fault. Just replaced the fuse, and worked for years.>>
Little wires are usually for little currents. However, I have seen fuses
packed with sand for some reason, maybe that one. Can you find those?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Scherer" <ToSSi(at)classic.msn.com> |
----------
From: owner-europa(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk on behalf of Jerry
Subject: N81EU - Inspection passed !!
Thought I might give an update on what was going on lately with my project #
UK81:
Last night we weighed the airplane on two scales: mechanical and electronic,
both certified. We weighed with full fuel and with all usable fuel pumped out
(using the el. pump with the tail down). I was astonished to see both scales
showing identical readings - exactly to the pound.
Total weight of the airplane is 770 pounds (A.P.S. Aircraft Prepared for
Service). That includes all engine fluids, unusable fuel, all instruments and
the paint job I am so proud of. A.P.S. CG comes to 61.06 Inches; for first
flight I should not go over 10 gals of fuel to stay in the narrow window for
first flight. I have to stick to max. 50 pounds of baggage if there are two
pax (190 & 180 pounders) on board with full fuel in order to remain within the
1300 pound max TOW.
Today the FAA Inspector came and spent about an hour on the plane. He wanted
to see how I can close the doors from inside (easy), the full travel of the
aileron and the engine running. The rest was paperwork - particularly
impressing to him was the Europa Owners Manual (Thank you Europa Aviation !) -
which becomes a very handy piece of literature for me as we prepare for first
flight. Got the standard limitations for homebuilt aircraft: 40 hrs of
test-flight time within 25 nM, no passenger unless needed for data-logging
during that timeframe. She is approved for Day - Night VFR only and I will
obtain the repairman certificate. Thank you FAA !
First flight whenever there is no wind - I'll keep you posted.
Some pictures of the paint job were sent to Peter Thomas a while ago for
incorporation into the webpages - does anyone know whether he is around ?
Shouldn't the webpages of Europa Aviation be updated, too (XS, new
completions) ?
Europa UK81
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | not JUST fuses vs. breakers . . . |
>Bob, I have your Rev 7 of the Aeroelectric Connection. I agree with most
>of it's content and it's a handy reference for electrical data. That
>does not mean that my experience does not count or its wrong to have a
>different opinion.
Never said so . . never intended to imply it either. Paul,
please understand that MOST of the people out here building
airplanes are pretty bewildered by it all . . . I suspect that's
a major contribution to the number of airplanes that are started
but never finished.
>The real issue is not to dictate ones opinion (or try to support
>it with ones background) but present your position and let the readers
>decide what is best for them. . . .
>I have seen both sides of the discussion and think there is room for
>both. Further I have found most people willing and able to decide for
>themselves which way they want to go.
I guess that's the variable that I don't know how to quantify.
When it comes to "deciding for one's self" who is the most persuasive?
The techno-wienie who speaks in some undecipherable language or the
guy who sez, "I've been there and by golly, re-setting that breaker
sure saved my buns!" Did you ever see the movie "Never Cry Wolf"?
It's a fun piece but there's a scene in there wherein our hero
has to "hold 'er steady" while the pilot climbs out the window to
bang on a frozen fuel line with a wrench. I can laugh at the scene
for its humor but the serious side is scenes like that drive
public perception of aviation. Trading wing-and-a-prayer stories
over a suds is fun too . . . but we're building airplanes here
and lots of people are listening . . . while we're laughing over some
guy's pucker-factor, someone else's wife is wondering if she
really wants her husband to build his own "death trap."
That's why I like people to learn data-speak. Just for grins,
let us suppose there were an FAA rule tomorrow that sez all
breakers shall be out of reach and left it at that. Do you suppose
we could learn to live under that rule and design the airplane
so it was not necessary to reach 'em. Sure we could. Well . . . if we
can do it to accomodate the unwelcomed regulation, why not strive
for that kind of reliability on our own?
>The difference in reliability is insignificant in the real world and
>builder comfort is more important. I am much more worried about the auto
>engine conversion with only one battery than if he uses fuses or CB and
>where they are located.
Discomfort comes from lack of knowlege and skills. Most of our
bretheren out there come from the padded cockpit environment where
they were taught everything necessary to fly this here airplane,
including the preflight check of breakers. I remember sitting there
in the left seat waiting for my flight instructor to continue with
some lessons on inflight systems diagnosis after he told me how
useful it was to be able to push and pull on those things. But that
was it . . perhaps two sentences.
>As the FAR's (23.1357 (d)) do require crew replaceable/resettable
>fuses/CB for "critical equipment" It seems to me the only one to make
>the decision as what's critical is the builder/pilot based on his own
>comfort factor and the type of flying being done.
When I proposed the idea of remote fuses to my friends here at
the FSDO, their eyebrows went up too . . . until I followed up
with the statement that the system would be designed such that
NO systems were critical to flight. Most of the folk on the lists
are not designers . . . they ask questions and appreciate lucid
answers. Most lack the skills to deduce criticality and are
unable to make considered decisions as to what is or is not
"critical." One contributor to this conversation made a statement
to the effect that, "everything is critical . . . or it wouldn't
have been installed in the airplane!"
That's your and my responsability. As experienced pilots and
knowledgable users of the hardware, we need to put our
experience out there in the Plan A/Plan B format suitable for
POH publication. That's where striving for system designs favorable
to out-of-reach fuses is helpful . . . the instructions get real
simple and the pilots get real confident.
>Further what about all the existing factory and experimental acft that
>were wired with CB? Should we worry these people by suggesting their
>acft is less reliable?
Worry them, no . . . I fly lots of those same airplanes. As the
#2 item on my systems reliability list, I as a pilot couldn't care
less if ANY of those breakers are open or closed at any given
time in the way I use the airplane. My fondest wish would be to
wave a magic wand and make all pilots as confident of thier
ability to cope as I am . . . and yes, compared to what we are
building, those spam cans ARE less reliable . . . that's why
I refuse to depend on certain aspects of their equipment lists.
>Both fuses and CB's fail and when they do the failure rate is
>unimportant to the pilot. The ability to replace in flight is a personal
>one and largely depends on the type of flying being done. What applies
>IFR over an overcast in mountains is quite different from VFR in the
>Midwest.
But Paul, I'm not sure you understand the point. It's not a matter
of breakers/fuses or the ability to fiddle with them in flight.
If I'm IFR in the crud and a 10-cent resistor cracks, or a coax
comes unhooked, or a knob suddenly fails to rotate the mechanism
behind the panel, what comfort is there in being able to see that
row of circuit protection? All of those goodies that depend on the
power making it through the fuses can fail in so many ways.
The frustrating thing for me is not the argument over hardware styles
rather the importance we put on them. I.e. why spend $100 for a mil-spec
switch to control a landing light when you KNOW the light bulb is going
to fail? Extend that fact into every other system in the airplane
and it makes this discussion on hardware look like a playground
argument. That's why I fly with the assumption, mind set and
backup equipment that ASSUMES that none of that stuff is going to
be working when I land, and I DO intend to land on my own terms.
My flight instructor hadn't the foggiest notion of that concept.
It took me a long time to acquire it on my own but then the FAA
would have a fit if we proposed this line be added to the approved
flight sylabus, "Instruct student on use of aircraft in J-3 mode"
How many new Bonanza owners would appreciate that kind of instruction?
That's why we call some of those airplanes (doctor, lawyer, etc.)
killers. Those folk paid a LOT of money for the things, the idea
that they should KNOW how to get along without that panel full of
goodies is UNTHINKABLE . . . so the training never happens.
Can you see why I get wrapped around the axle of the "dark and stormy
night" anecdotes? They have no educational value and serve only
to make pilots more apprehensive because of what they DON'T know.
There are reasons now to believe that John Denver was working
a transponder problem with center or approach just before the accident.
Wouldn't it be ironic if the man died with his head down, trying
to get a band-aided, WW-II derelict working for the convenience of ATC
and didn't see a bird coming?
The answer seems quite clear to me . . . the fewer goodies to fiddle
with the better. Deal with situations in a predetermined, simple,
Plan A/Plan B procedure. I'd be very pleased to have you join me
in helping to achieve this kind of cockpit environment. If we can
reduce costs, weight and installation time too, that would be super.
Interestingly enough, getting rid of excess baggage by the use of
considered design tends to have those by-products. I'd love to look
the administrator in the eye at OSH some year and seriously suggest,
"certified aviation has fallen behind in some important safety issues
and that some tutorials from the vast knowlege base that is
(or should be) EAA are available for any interested FAA personnel."
Kindest regards,
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re: R/C Scale Aircraft Magazine |
>David, will you communicate me the address and telephone number of the R/C
>Scale Aircraft Magazine, eventually the way how to order back issues. Maybe
>for people from the UK this is a well known magazine, but I am doubting
>wether it is sold here in the Netherlands. I would like to order back
issues >of Oktober and November, this scale model of the Europa seems to be
>interesting. Thanks in advance. Jack.
The magazine is bi-monthly published by Nexus Publishing. The two issues you
want are September 97 and November 97. Their phone number is 0144266551 and
their address is Nexus House, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 7ST.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: request for help |
>Hi,
>My name is Soo-Mi Kim working for Korea Aerospace Reserach Institute.
>We will plan to join to a project for HALE(High Altitude Long Endurance)
>aircraft in near future.
>My field is about propulsion system. We must select and purchase the
>suitable engine for our HALE aircraft. So, I need some information for
>propulsion system of HALE aircraft.
>Can I get some specification and performance of the ROTAX engines that
>is suitable for the HALE aircraft?
>Or do you have any list(including address, fax number, and phone number
>or other contact point) of engine manufacturer for HALE aircraft?
>If you have any, let me know the information, please.
>I will wait for your response. Thank you.
>
>Dear Mr Soo-Mi,
Further to your e-mail requesting information on Rotax engines for your
high altitude aircraft, I assure you are looking for specification for the
Rotax 914 engine 100HP (max continous).
Please contact :
Bombardier-Rotax Gmbh
A-4263 Gunskirchen
Welser Strabe 32
Germany
Have you considered a turboprop engine? Typically -(inthe same HP range)
Garret JF5 100 turboshaft engine?
SNA Inc
P.O. Box 607
Rte 113
Kimberton
PA 19442
They do a turboprop (300hp) for their seawind seaplane.
For a jet engine try Williams FJ44.
I hope this is of some help to you.
Best regards
Jason Russell
Aeronautical Engineer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul.marshall(at)bae.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
A number of different diagnoses seem to have been made for the exhaust
pipe failures. I have seen "erosion", "corrosion" and "fatigue" all
blamed. If you would like the opinion of a metallurgist I would be
happy to cast my eye (possibly aided by a microscope) over any failed
bits that are no longer needed.
Paul Marshall 0117 9366951
p.s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | te to Europa builders |
Hello and greetings from Southern California..It is me, Kim (N111EU)
inviting any interested Europa enthusiasts and builders to Cable
Airport (Upland, CA) for the first Europa builders' get together in So
Cal on Sunday, Oct 26 1:00 PM to ? at the EAA building. Aeropoxy
company will be there to answer tech question regarding epoxy. We will
be forming the Europa Squadron #1 with hopes of continuing the
tradition of networking as conceptualized in the original Long EZ
Squadron system. So, if anyone is planning a trip or just passing
through So CAL, give me a call at 909 920 3055 or reply on E-mail, to
me at djf@js-net.com so I can help with your needs. Happy Flying!!
P.S. N111EU now has 330 hrs and my trip this weekend is by invitation
to Edwards AFB for their 50th Anniversary celebration..hoping to get
some great photos, autographs and a picture of the Europa with a U2-
should be fun!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | trouble with media . . . |
>I usually spend the next hour telling them how 43 people get killed
>in a bus crash in Canada yet the interrogator sees no danger in
>meeting a bus head-on on a narrow, winding road but sees great danger
>in flying. Asked my 100+ criminal law students yesterday: "How many
>of you have heard of the Hindenburg?" Surprising, *all* of them not
>only raised their hands, but many of them could tell me that 36
>people died in the crash of the Hindenburg.
>
Sure . . . and it isn't JUST media coverage. We do it to ourselves
consistently. AIRSHOWS . . . geeze I wish we'd just quit doing
them. You get a bizillion people to pay good money to get in
and watch pilots do absolutely crazy things in the sky, trail
lots of smoke and make lots of noise. Certainly some in the crowd
are quietly wishing to witness a real munch of some kind . . . .
Then all of those folk go home totally oblivious of the fact
that only .1% of the "little" airplanes do that and the pilots
are quite professional. But when they drive by a grass strip
with a few raggy airplanes tied down, the image of their last
airshow visit pops to mind.
There's a growing movement in this part of the country to REVISE
our fly-in agendas. I attended three this summer that were technical
support fly-ins only. No open-to-the-public paid admissions to come
watch any sort of "show". The public was sure invited (along with
their kids for Young Eagles rides) and they might have to pay to
attend the forums but the whole event was pure airplane business.
With by NOT inviting EAA, we avoided the booths with preserved
aligator heads and Christmas tree decorations, along with rocket-powered
Peterbuilts. By not inviting DareDevil Joe, we avoided the FAA.
All-in-all a quiet, fun, informative weekend that probably returns
more on investment to promote amateur-built aviation than anything
else we could do. Watch our website for these events to show up
again, and I hope many others with the similar goals.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa(at)gate.net (europa aviation) |
| Subject: | Re: invite to Europa builders |
>Hello and greetings from Southern California..It is me, Kim (N111EU)
>inviting any interested Europa enthusiasts and builders to Cable
>Airport (Upland, CA) for the first Europa builders' get together in So
>Cal on Sunday, Oct 26 1:00 PM to ? at the EAA building. Aeropoxy
>company will be there to answer tech question regarding epoxy. We will
>be forming the Europa Squadron #1 with hopes of continuing the
>tradition of networking as conceptualized in the original Long EZ
>Squadron system. So, if anyone is planning a trip or just passing
>through So CAL, give me a call at 909 920 3055 or reply on E-mail, to
>me at djf@js-net.com so I can help with your needs. Happy Flying!!
>
>P.S. N111EU now has 330 hrs and my trip this weekend is by invitation
>to Edwards AFB for their 50th Anniversary celebration..hoping to get
>some great photos, autographs and a picture of the Europa with a U2-
>should be fun!
>
>Hi Kim!
Good luck this weekend at Edwards AFB. Let me know how it goes. Also good
luck with the gathering. That is a great idea!! I hope that someone on
this coast starts the same thing--maybe Europa East Squadron? I heard you
had a good show at Copperstate, I'm sorry I missed meeting your wife and
Ed's, definitely next year! I will be sending some $ your way soon. Let me
know if you need anything.
Yours truly,
Michele
Europa Aviation
Europa Aviation Inc: Tel 941 647 5355, Fax 941 646 2877
Europa Web Page At: http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Murphy" <murphyj(at)avnet.co.uk> |
delete
----------
> From: James Murphy <murphyj(at)avnet.co.uk>
> Subject: delete
> Date: 14 October 1997 12:00
>
> delete
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | te to Europa builders |
>>a picture of the Europa with a U2- <<
Two airplanes with near identical undercarriage configuration. (;-)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com |
I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
out there have the status? John Kilian A046
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invite to Europa builders |
>> I will be sending some $ your way soon. Let me
know if you need anything.<<
Send some my way, if you like. I'll think of a good reason. BTW sorry I
missed you when you were over here, now I'll have to do Sun&Fun,98.
Hopefully on the way back from NZ and Oz.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Modification |
Tony K and Europa Technical,
Gidday,
Now that you have already layed up your rudder closeout as per the plans how
do you propose to setup the full length hinge? There is a couple of
different ways to do this but the obvious would be to sand the areas not
already thickened for hinge reinforcement and layup onto these areas ONLY.
You could simply sand away the thickened areas of hinge reinforcement but
as they are imbedded between the 2 bid plies of the closeout you would at
the same time destroy the top ply of the said closeout. This would then mean
you would need to reinforce the entire rudder flange full length, which
would not really add a lot of extra weight I wouldn't think. I am with you
in that the more hinge the better, especially at the bottom. What does
Europa think about this and could they explain to us builders the preference
of only 3 hinges? I would hope for an aircraft designed to be such a
thoroughbred in terms of flexible flying/aerobatics etc. that this would be
an area worth carrying additional weight just in case. Maybe there is more
to it such as an unacceptable transferred load to the skin or something.
Anyone at Europa who can comment on the acceptability of such a mod please??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
>I have already decided to go to a full length hinge anyway a la Mr Prout!
>
>Tony
>>
>> Tony,
>> Haven't seen the new tailwheel mod.yet however from your observations it
>may be that the
>> rudder hinge for buiders should revert to a full length piano hinge. I am
>leaning
>> towards that anyway for strength.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Evers <evers(at)mcmail.com> |
| Subject: | Calibrating Engine RPM |
My camcorder (Mitsubishi C50) has an integral digital stopwatch facility
which has runs at seconds/100 which presumably is pretty accurate and
almost certainly runs off the synch generator. I am sure this must be
quite a common facility. By superimposing this on a recording of the prop
(with a 'short shutter duration') you might be able use slow-motion/frame
advance to check the actual number of revolutions in so many seconds
Putting a different coloured label on each blade of the prop should be
helpful. It would be especially interesting to use red, green and blue
labels in the same relative positions. Even if your camcorder does not
have a stop-watch you could arrange to get an actual clock in the picture
and maybe the tachometer too. Do not forget the sound channel. With a
suitable plugged-in microphone you could log the tachometer reading
verbally.
Eric Evers
Largs, Ayrshire,
SCOTLAND - UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan McFadyean [SMTP:Halcrow_MRO(at)compuserve.com]
Sent: 15 October 1997 14:04
Subject: Re: Calibrating Engine RPM
Thanks for the notes on video camera shutter speeds.
Can anyone comment on just how accurate the frame frequency is and
therefore how reliable the technique is?
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
In message <971018160113_1993446118(at)emout01.mail.aol.com>,
LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com writes
>I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
>out there have the status? John Kilian A046
Funny - I was thinking just the same!
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | ue Tube Lubricant |
Rolph,
Can you give us a name of this lubricant, a brand name? Is it compatible
with the surrounding structure if any goes astray?
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Quote:
>Try using a high content Molybdenum Disulphide lubricant as well.
>Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
Does anyone agree that the ideal airofoil is the one that is cut in two to
accomodate a spar? Could it not then be stated that the method of rejoining
these components is critical. As I understand it and I am not at this stage
yet, however I believe the old method of securing the aft edge of the wing
skin to the back of the spar, and the new method which secures it with a bid
tape, both effect the thickness at this critical location of the wing. Also
of course is the effect of the trailing edge cloth overlapping the leading
edge skin. I know of a fellow who has recessed his cores such as the
consequent glasswork in this area maintains as much as possible the original
airofoil. Doesn't sound like such a bad idea don't you think??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Efficiency |
Tony Renshaw wrote:
>
> Gidday,
> Does anyone agree that the ideal airofoil is the one that is cut in two to
> accomodate a spar? Could it not then be stated that the method of rejoining
> these components is critical. As I understand it and I am not at this stage
> yet, however I believe the old method of securing the aft edge of the wing
> skin to the back of the spar, and the new method which secures it with a bid
> tape, both effect the thickness at this critical location of the wing. Also
> of course is the effect of the trailing edge cloth overlapping the leading
> edge skin. I know of a fellow who has recessed his cores such as the
> consequent glasswork in this area maintains as much as possible the original
> airofoil. Doesn't sound like such a bad idea don't you think??
I agree, Tony. It really pays to look ahead in the builders manual to
make compensations at the early stage.
Cheers,
Tim
--
Timothy. P. Ward
26 Tomes Road
Papanui,
Christchurch 8005
NEW ZEALAND
PH 64033525726
Fax 64033525726
Email: ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
>out there have the status? John Kilian A046
>
>
Spoke to Ivan a couple of days ago - I got the impression that they were at
the printers...
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Lubricant |
In message <199710190936.TAA00486(at)server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net>, Tony
Renshaw writes
>this lubricant, a brand name?
Tony,
The brand leader is Molykote based in Germany but owned by Dow Corning.
It's a long time since I was selling the stuff and can't remember their
product names. The company I used to flog it for was Rocol based in the
UK, but there are distributors/stockists world wide, including a company
in Australia. Molybdenum disulphide (MOS2) is a mineral lubricant -
similar to graphite but with superior lubricating properties - it also
bonds to metal. Rocol ASP is practically a dry lubricant - the base is
pet jelly. Rocol MTLM is an alternative - grease based but with hi MOS2
content. I used the latter - the only disadvantage of the product is
that it is VERY black.
By the way, MOS2 got a bad name back in the '60's, I suppose, when it
was being pushed as a motor oil additive. However, used as as a
pretreatment for plain bearings, as an assembly lubricant or wherever
there are slow speeds and high pressures it is without equal. I also use
ASP on the TP tubes.
It's also very expensive! Well wouldn't want to use anything cheap on a
Europa, would we!! I believe you can buy in 50g tubes though.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Cozy Builders:
>
>There is another way to protect electrical circuits without using
>mechanical circuit breakers and wire fuses. About a year ago I received a
>data sheet for RAYCHEM's PolySwitch Resettable Fuses. A PolySwitch will
>trip when an overcurrent condition is present. The PolySwitch will reset
>only after it has cooled and the fault condition has been corrected.
>There's no need for manual resetting or replacement. These devices are
>available with trip points as low as 0.120 amps and as high as 9 amps.
>
>Littelfuse, which makes auto fuses, has a similiar product called Positive
>Temperature Coefficient(PTC) Resettable Devices.
>
>RAYCHEM and Littelfuse both appear to be using some type of conductive
>polymer in their circuit protectors in lieu of wire links and moving parts.
>
There's at least on product on the market using these devices. I've
posted both a design review and a usenet thread which intereseted
parties may read at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/xpbusthd.html>
and <http://www.aeroelectric.com/expbusad.html>.
I and several dozen other folk at Lear and Beech have look at these
devices several times over the last 15 years and still don't have a
way to apply these devices for general power distribution tasks
that satisfies our desire for positive protection and annunciated
faults. The polyswitches are packaged to mount inside a product . . .
soldered to an etched circuit board. The EXPBus does exactly that.
The problem is that manufacturing costs for utilizing the Polyswitch
make it more expensive to install and drives up parts count.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>>There must be about 100,000,000 automobles out there running around
without a
>>switch on the alternator field. Why is a switch so common on our little
>>airplanes. Or is it a case where I can't find mine on all my cars and
>>motorcycles. Someone tell me the problem of not having the switch.
>
> Excellent question . . . and sure, the answer is simple. In airplanes,
> the prudent way to architecture and operate an electrical system is to
> assume that at some point, each and every electrical system component
> is capable of failing in flight. After deducing ALL the ways an alternator
> system can fail, one finds several conditions under which you need to have
> separate and total control over the alternator field current. (1) the
> alternator has become disconnected from the bus but is still drawing
> maximum field current because the regulator thinks the alternator is
> simply shirking . . . it applies full field current in hopes of
> flogging the alternator to life. In flight, this is a LARGE and useless
> drain on the battery that you'd like to conserve for running really useful
> things. (2) You're on short final to an unplanned arrival with the earth
> and you want a way to get all electrical sources shut down before
> contact with the rocks, trees, whatever . . . (3) If for any reason,
> one might turn the battery master off before stopping the engine, the
> alternator may continue to run, self-excited but poorly regulated
> and be a real bother to other electrical sytem parts that may object
> to the poor quality power. There might be others but these are pretty
> compelling.
>
P.S. Actually, most automotive alternators DO have a switch. It's
the one your key is stuck into. There's often a control line running
from the keyswitch to the alternator's built in regulator that
kills the alternator when the key is turned off . . . and 99.9%
of the time, it works. Problem that this line is not THE single
supply source of field current . . . simply a control line to some
itty-bitty transistors and stuff inside the regulator. If we're
prudend in the design of our electrical system, we have to concede
that those devices can fail to funtion . . . therefore, the stock
control line into an automotive alternator cannot be depended upon
for 100% authority over field current. This is the MAIN reason
why B&C takes perfectly good, brand new Nipon-Dienso alternators
apart to remove and bypass the built in regulators. When you open
the alternator field switch for a B&C alternator (as most others
flying around our there) the alternator is OFF.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Pattinson <carl(at)photos.prestel.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Build vs Fast Build Kits |
Dave Watts
>
> >Me too, I enjoyed the whole process and learnt a lot as well. In fact I am
> >convinced that if Europa were to effer both the pre built and build it
> >yourself wing (obviously at a price differential) then in England they would
> >sell more build it yourself versions. We are a nation of tinkerers.
> >Dave Watts 229.
Sorry, Dave but I think you have got this one wrong. I am as bigger
tinkerer as the next man, but I think I would almost certainly forgo
"the education" for the convenience and pleasure of being able fly
sooner. There is a difference between "an education" and "a lifetime of
education" (ie- fast build vs slow build). Frankly i'd rather be flying
than far***g around !
What makes matters worse is that I can buy a completed Europa for less
than the bits in my garage. Expensive education eh ! Methinks your club
magazine is better value than that.
BTW - I am English (well, maybe slightly Viking !)
Carl Pattinson
Kit 49
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Efficiency |
> Gidday,
> Does anyone agree that the ideal airofoil is the one that is cut in two to
> accomodate a spar? Could it not then be stated that the method of rejoining
> these components is critical. As I understand it and I am not at this stage
> yet, however I believe the old method of securing the aft edge of the wing
> skin to the back of the spar, and the new method which secures it with a
bid
> tape, both effect the thickness at this critical location of the wing.
I checked with Roger regarding this as you do end up with a step of some 4mm
between the foam and the spar at the root reducing to zero by the end of the
root block when you use the bid tape method of construction. According to Don
Dykins this is _not_ a critical portion of the wing. According to Don the bit
to really watch out for is the first 10 inches and also that there are no
concavities over the rest of the wing surface. To fill in the 4mm tapered gap
I used micro on the first side but found that a thick mix of fairlight was
_much_ better to work with so used that for the other sides. With the filler
in place you end up with a nice surface to lay the cloth on. I must say that
doing the wing layups wasn't as much hassle as I thought it would be and
thoroughly enjoyed the process.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Efficiency |
> Gidday,
> Does anyone agree that the ideal airofoil is the one that is cut in two to
> accomodate a spar? Could it not then be stated that the method of rejoining
> these components is critical.
If you build it according to instructions it is just fine. If you want a
confidence builder have a go at driving over one of your ailerons :-)
I am just about to help layup a pair of wings for a Windrose powered glider.
These wings are twice the length of the Europa and, other than a strip of
carbon fibre laid up along the spar cap, are built the same way as the Europa
wings - they even use the same biaxial cloth. The main layup should keep the
two of us entertained for eight or so hours!!!
If you want to see how badly you can make a Europa wing and still have the
plane fly have a close look at G-KITS! Ivan told me that they contracted out
the wing build to someone who, instead of checking the block line up and
washout, simply glued the blocks to the wing as they were supplied. It flies
but, as Graham so eloquently said, it seems to have built in headwind!!
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren Webb" <wwebb(at)dot.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: It's 'ere... It's 'ere !!! |
G'day Larry,
> Warren, you lucky guy. You have been able to wait for the new kit. I
> understand that it is much roomier and will be faster to build. I hope
> that you don't finish before I do. Best of luck.
The announcement of the new roomier cockpit and the opportunity to avoid
all the headaches that many builders have experienced with the wings
(except for the sanding, which I know you love so much), were probably the
deciding factors in getting started with the project at this time.
Thanks for all your inspirational guidance and say g'day to Karen and the
kids..
Hope the sanding is nearly finished & keep me posted with the progress.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating Engine RPM |
I guess some one will tell me I've wasted my cash but I bought a rev counter
to 29000 for two and three blade props for under #30 including battery it
measures in hundreds and works fine on the Ogar and checks out accurate on
the Tele, the computor and fluroescent tubes. My local model shop produced it
at the drop of a hat almost.Seems fine to me Ron S No 33
BTW is there no one home at Euopa I put a Question re Mods last week to this
group and Europaa not a dicky bird Ron
Copy
I must have missed one. Mod 40 rambles on about Mod 33 (fuel tank drains)
My mod 33 is about firewalls and only distantly or hopefully not at all
connected to the Rotax fuel system Help Ron S no33 (I sent the
above a few days ago)
Any chance of clarification please Ron and would you like to send me an
invooice for my tail kit ..Bi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven J. Heindl" <Sjheindl(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I understand there is a digital protractor that comes with the
standard warp drive prop. Can it be purchased seperately? Send info on
this item. Thank you. Sjheindl(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | tavex 98, Matamata New Zealand, February 6-8 1998 |
For those planning an antipodean break next February, details of the
Sportavex 98 Sport Aviation Expo can be found at
www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/sportavex.html
Daily connections are available from Europe, Asia, the USA and the West
Island (Oz) to Auckland NZ. Matamata is 35nm south of Auckland.
See you there!
Regards
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating Engine RPM |
>I must have missed one. Mod 40 rambles on about Mod 33 (fuel tank drains)
> My mod 33 is about firewalls and only distantly or hopefully not at all
>connected to the Rotax fuel system Help Ron S no33
Ron,
Mod 33 is in fact about the fitting of the optional fuel tank water drain
valves.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Lubricant |
Tony Renshaw wrote:
>
> Rolph,
> Can you give us a name of this lubricant, a brand name? Is it compatible
> with the surrounding structure if any goes astray?
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Quote:
> >Try using a high content Molybdenum Disulphide lubricant as well.
> >Rolph Muller
>
Years ago, while stepfather was stationed at a U. S. Airforce base in
jolly olde England and living in East Ruyslip (sp?), brothers sent me a
tin of chain lube with instructions to heat in oven til soupy and coil
cycle chain and dunk for a minute or two. Remove and hang over tin til
excess ran off.
Worked great. Only remember that the moly-disulfide material cam in a
cookie tin shaped container roughly 12 inch diameter and about six
inches deep. Filled to half-depth material. Said they got it at local
cycle shoppe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Efficiency |
Tony Renshaw wrote:
>
> Gidday,
> Does anyone agree that the ideal airofoil is the one that is cut in two to
> accomodate a spar? Could it not then be stated that the method of rejoining
> these components is critical. As I understand it and I am not at this stage
> yet, however I believe the old method of securing the aft edge of the wing
> skin to the back of the spar, and the new method which secures it with a bid
> tape, both effect the thickness at this critical location of the wing. Also
> of course is the effect of the trailing edge cloth overlapping the leading
> edge skin. I know of a fellow who has recessed his cores such as the
> consequent glasswork in this area maintains as much as possible the original
> airofoil. Doesn't sound like such a bad idea don't you think??
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Builder No.236
>
You might check out the KR-2 website/user group for info on foam/spar
attach "secrets". KR1 & 2 used hot-wire cut foam and attached it to
spar but too long ago for me to remember how.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow Build vs Fast Build Kits |
>
> What makes matters worse is that I can buy a completed Europa for less
> than the bits in my garage. Expensive education eh ! Methinks your club
> magazine is better value than that.
>
>
> Carl Pattinson
> Kit 49
>
Where and for HOW much?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter M. Davis" <pdavis10(at)compuserve.com> |
Due to a lack of helpful car repair shops around here, I am going down to
Shoreham on Tuesday 28th. Oct. with wings and things for a jolly bake and
thought I would put the message about on the off chance that someone in the
Southern area might want to share Northbrooke college's oven with me.
Towels and birch twigs not provided!
Give me a ring on (01235) 532981 or 520936 if anyone would like to share
costs, or on 101621.3070(at)compuserve.com, although I don't always remember
to log-on.. Sorry, but I will not be able to transport any bits-n-bobs as I
will be full up myself.
Regards,
Peter Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Lubricant |
In message <344AFBF6.6F25(at)cyberhighway.net>, Dean Arthur
writes
>Said they got it at local
>cycle shoppe.
Chain lube is definitely not what we're at here. Try an engineering
suppliers - or shoppe if you must!
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Efficiency |
Tony K,
Surely you_ "didn't"_, did you??? :-(((
>
>If you build it according to instructions it is just fine. If you want a
>confidence builder have a go at driving over one of your ailerons :-)
>
Reg
T.R.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
In message <199710201407_MC2-2485-2BFA(at)compuserve.com>, "Peter M. Davis"
writes
>Towels and birch twigs not provided!
I do have a sauna for sale - sorry I know I should not advertise - it's
a reluctant sale - can provide the birch twigs if neccessary - the happy
memories stay with me tho!
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | ilerons / Wing efficiency |
You obviously haven't read that bit of my log.....
I was working on the ailerons one evening when Carol called me in for dinner.
I put the ailerons down on the floor behind the car as the rest of my
workspace was full. After dinner Carol asked me to go and get some milk so I
got in the car, opened the garage door and reversed! The slight bump reminded
me where my ailerons were so, muttering politely under my breath (not), I got
out to inspect them. There wasn't a mark on them, even where the car had gone
over the flange! I decided to scrap them anyway and got in a new set of cores
from Europa. Did you know you can actually make a pair of ailerons in a week.
As an exercise I decide to test one to destruction. It took a _lot_ of effort
with a large sledge hammer before I could get it to crack. The force required
to break the aileron really surprised me and has given me a lot of confidence
in moldless composite construction.
I mentioned this incident to Ivan while I was up there and he said that I
needn't have bothered scrapping them!
Tony
> Tony K,
> Surely you_ "didn't"_, did you??? :-(((
> >
> >If you build it according to instructions it is just fine. If you want a
> >confidence builder have a go at driving over one of your ailerons :-)
> >
> Reg
> T.R.
>
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Re Ailerons / Wing efficiency |
In message <97Oct21.123749nzdt.17025(at)quark.kaon.co.nz>, Tony Krzyzewski
writes
>The force required
>to break the aileron really surprised me and has given me a lot of confidence
>in moldless composite construction.
Tell you what tho' don't try dropping a tailplane on it's trailing tip -
or even worse don't let a friend drop it! But at least it's easy enough
to repair.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Warrington <mwarrington(at)dial.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | ox costs of construction |
Hi,
Excuse my intrusion here you might think I'm butting in where I'm not
wanted since, having lurked for a while, I can tell you are all
experienced pilots/builders; but I have a few basic questions.
I am currently training for my PPL, and when I pass I would love to
start building a Europa. I would like the answers to the following
questions if I can please.
1. How much, including tools, etc would it cost (approx) to build the
Europa from start to finish? You guys will obviously have a much better
idea of the hidden costs and I'd value your input since this is a non
starter if I can't afford it in the first place.
2. How difficult is it to get the aircraft licences and get a C of A for
it? How much does this cost and what steps are involved?
3. Where do you store your aircraft? If you store it at home, what do
you do about things like excess fuel after a flight? Do you just leave
it in the tanks?
4. How easy is it to complete the tasks involved? And what do you do
about fitting the engine and instrumentation?
If there is a FAQ that answers these questions then a pointer that will
be sufficient and I'll leave you all in peace!
Thanks a lot,
Mark.
--
Mark Warrington - Telecommunications Design Specialist
E-mail - mwarrington(at)dial.pipex.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland and Wilma Carson <rowil(at)gn.apc.org> |
LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com wrote:
>I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
>out there have the status? John Kilian A046
John - I just received my own copy of the Club newsletter, #14, Sep 97. I
can confirm that your name was on one of the labels I sent to Dave Watts
for the bulk mailing, so yours should be arriving soon (ditto Rolph's).
I don't think I've had a factory newsletter since #17, May 97. I was
thinking I'd give Alizon a buzz and ask if my subscription had lapsed.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Re Ailerons / Wing efficiency |
> Tell you what tho' don't try dropping a tailplane on it's trailing tip -
> or even worse don't let a friend drop it!
> But at least it's easy enough to repair.
Try doing that with a tin can aircraft rudder. Panel beaters here we come!!
Another advantage of composites!
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Approx costs of construction |
> Hi,
>
> Excuse my intrusion here you might think I'm butting in where I'm not
> wanted since, having lurked for a while, I can tell you are all
> experienced pilots/builders;
And if you believe that I have a large Harbour Bridge I would like to sell
you :-) Many of us are building for the first time and some have yet to get
their PPL!
Welcome.
The UK builders can give you a sensible answer to your questions :-)
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <genottes(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Approx costs of construction |
Mark Warrington wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a few basic questions.
>
> I am currently training for my PPL, and when I pass I would love to
> start building a Europa. I would like the answers to the following
> questions if I can please.
>
> 1. How much, including tools, etc would it cost (approx) to build the
> Europa from start to finish? You guys will obviously have a much better
> idea of the hidden costs and I'd value your input since this is a non
> starter if I can't afford it in the first place.
>
> 2. How difficult is it to get the aircraft licences and get a C of A for
> it? How much does this cost and what steps are involved?
>
> 3. Where do you store your aircraft? If you store it at home, what do
> you do about things like excess fuel after a flight? Do you just leave
> it in the tanks?
>
> 4. How easy is it to complete the tasks involved? And what do you do
> about fitting the engine and instrumentation?
>
> If there is a FAQ that answers these questions then a pointer that will
> be sufficient and I'll leave you all in peace!
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Mark.
I will leave it to those who are in the know to answer the above, but I
just had to voice my thoughts on your questions, Mark.
IMHO, if everyone who was interested in starting a kit took the time and
effort to do as you have above, the completion rate for kit planes would be
dramatically improved. Congratulations on (1) Considering the Europa (as it
is the best!) and (2) taking such a thoughtful approach to it. I hope this
dream becomes a reality for you, as I have a feeling you will produce an
excellent aircraft.
Regards,
Steve Genotte
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Christoph Both" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
Hi everybody:
Factory newsletter: was it supposed to be a quarterly
publication or just a semi-annual one?
Just a question...
C.Both #223
Halifax/Wolfville, N.S.
Canada
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997
Rowland and Wilma Carson Subject: Re:
LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com wrote:
>I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
>out there have the status? John Kilian A046
John - I just received my own copy of the Club newsletter, #14, Sep 97. I
can confirm that your name was on one of the labels I sent to Dave Watts
for the bulk mailing, so yours should be arriving soon (ditto Rolph's).
I don't think I've had a factory newsletter since #17, May 97. I was
thinking I'd give Alizon a buzz and ask if my subscription had lapsed.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I don't think I've had a factory newsletter since #17, May 97. I was
thinking I'd give Alizon a buzz and ask if my subscription had lapsed.<<
Alie has moved next door, to the new certification company, whose name I
don't yet know. So has Ivan, except when he can't leave his grown up baby
alone.
Talk to Lauren, otherwise known as "Plum".
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europajim(at)juno.com (James H. Nelson) |
Well, has anyone considered using the French JPX engine. The model
4TX75/A is a 4cyl 85hp@3000 rpm direct drive engine? It will run up to
92hp @ 3300 rpm. It will run max continous : 80hp at 2900 rpm. It sports
a 20 amp alternator. It weighs in at 178 lbs. It costs 56,470 FF or
$9,985.00 US. It seems a good alternative to the Rotax. I'm trying to
get the rebuild costs ect. to see how that compairs. Any comments? The
US rep, Leroy Enterprises, will be at Sun N Fun in April. I will stop by
and look this one over.
europajim(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ox costs of construction |
>>. How much, including tools, etc would it cost (approx) to build the
Europa from start to finish? You guys will obviously have a much better
idea of the hidden costs and I'd value your input since this is a non
starter if I can't afford it in the first place.<<
GBP35K for a nice one
>>2. How difficult is it to get the aircraft licences and get a C of A for
it? How much does this cost and what steps are involved?<<
Straightforward, about GBP300 first time
then 145
>>3. Where do you store your aircraft? If you store it at home, what do
Up to you, 5 minutes to get it on trailer.
you do about things like excess fuel after a flight? Do you just leave
Fuel stays in tank.
it in the tanks?
>>4. How easy is it to complete the tasks involved? And what do you do
No more difficult than building a R.C. model,
about fitting the engine and instrumentation?
Do it all yourself in a year or three.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa(at)gate.net (europa aviation) |
>>>I don't think I've had a factory newsletter since #17, May 97. I was
>thinking I'd give Alizon a buzz and ask if my subscription had lapsed.<<
>
>Alie has moved next door, to the new certification company, whose name I
>don't yet know. So has Ivan, except when he can't leave his grown up baby
>alone.
>Talk to Lauren, otherwise known as "Plum".
>Graham
>
>Hi there!
I thought I would save Plum a little time and tell you that it should be out
within the next 3 weeks, it went to the printers last week.
Michele
US Europa Office
Europa Aviation Inc: Tel 941 647 5355, Fax 941 646 2877
Europa Web Page At: http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa(at)gate.net (europa aviation) |
>Hi everybody:
>
>Factory newsletter: was it supposed to be a quarterly
>publication or just a semi-annual one?
>
>Just a question...
> C.Both #223
>Halifax/Wolfville, N.S.
> Canada
>
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997
>Rowland and Wilma Carson Subject: Re:
>
>LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>I haven't seen a Europa club or company newsletter in some time. Does anyone
>>out there have the status? John Kilian A046
>
>John - I just received my own copy of the Club newsletter, #14, Sep 97. I
>can confirm that your name was on one of the labels I sent to Dave Watts
>for the bulk mailing, so yours should be arriving soon (ditto Rolph's).
>
>I don't think I've had a factory newsletter since #17, May 97. I was
>thinking I'd give Alizon a buzz and ask if my subscription had lapsed.
>
>cheers
>
>Rowland
>
>
>... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>
>
>Hey guys!
I'll save Plum some time and let you know that the newsletter went to the
printers and it should be ready to send out within the next few weeks.
Michele
US Europa Office
Europa Aviation Inc: Tel 941 647 5355, Fax 941 646 2877
Europa Web Page At: http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
In message <199710211821_MC2-24AC-A35C(at)compuserve.com>, Graham Singleton
<100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> writes
>otherwise known as "Plum".
Is it impolite to ask why?
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hotel Sole Mare" <solemare(at)marconinet.it> |
Hotel Sole Mare
Via Fausta , 345
Cavallino (VE) 30013
tel. +3941968023
fax.+3941968400
Home Page http://www.marconinet.it/solemare
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hotel Sole Mare" <solemare(at)marconinet.it> |
Hotel Sole Mare
Via Fausta , 345
Cavallino (VE) 30013
tel. +3941968023
fax.+3941968400
Home Page http://www.marconinet.it/solemare
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Nolan <nv_nolan(at)apollo.commnet.edu> |
Is this air cooled?
Ed
**********************
>Well, has anyone considered using the French JPX engine. The model
>4TX75/A is a 4cyl 85hp@3000 rpm direct drive engine? It will run up to
>92hp @ 3300 rpm. It will run max continous : 80hp at 2900 rpm. It sports
>a 20 amp alternator. It weighs in at 178 lbs. It costs 56,470 FF or
>$9,985.00 US. It seems a good alternative to the Rotax. I'm trying to
>get the rebuild costs ect. to see how that compairs. Any comments? The
>US rep, Leroy Enterprises, will be at Sun N Fun in April. I will stop by
>and look this one over.
>
> europajim(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hawker, Phil" <Phil.Hawker(at)swi.galileo.com> |
Yes.
Take a look at:
http://www.leroyent.com/jpx-index.htm
Brgds
Phil
>----------
From: Ed Nolan[SMTP:nv_nolan(at)apollo.commnet.edu]
>Subject: Re: JPX Engines
>
>Is this air cooled?
>
>Ed
>**********************
>
>>Well, has anyone considered using the French JPX engine. The model
>>4TX75/A is a 4cyl 85hp@3000 rpm direct drive engine? It will run up to
>>92hp @ 3300 rpm. It will run max continous : 80hp at 2900 rpm. It sports
>>a 20 amp alternator. It weighs in at 178 lbs. It costs 56,470 FF or
>>$9,985.00 US. It seems a good alternative to the Rotax. I'm trying to
>>get the rebuild costs ect. to see how that compairs. Any comments? The
>>US rep, Leroy Enterprises, will be at Sun N Fun in April. I will stop by
>>and look this one over.
>>
>> europajim(at)juno.com
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland and Wilma Carson <rowil(at)gn.apc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Approx costs of construction |
Mark Warrington wrote:
>If there is a FAQ that answers these questions then a pointer that will
>be sufficient
I have sent Mark in private e-mail the draft FAQ I've been rather
half-heartedly putting together. If anyone else wants a copy of that either
to use or to comment on, please ask in private e-mail direct to me. I
welcome any assistance to get this document into a useful form. I'll tell
the list if/when I manage to get a copy up to "first release" level and
lodged somewhere at Avnet for downloading by e-mail.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Permagrit(at)aol.com |
Hi,
This is Perma-Grit tools in England, and we are on the web at
www.permagrit.com
Please tell theEuropa builders that they can find information on our
products. They can be ordered by telephone, Fax, or e-mail. All major credit
cards taken.
We will be only too pleased to answer any questions about the tools.
The tools are now recommended by an ever increasing list of composite
aircraft manufacturers. Lancair, Velocity, Kiss, Pulsar, Glass Goose,
Glassair, Cosy,and of course the Europa!!!
Best regards, and happy building, Ian Richardson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PolySwitches |
<< >There's no need for manual resetting or replacement. These devices are
>available with trip points as low as 0.120 amps and as high as 9 amps. >
>Littelfuse, which makes auto fuses, has a similiar product called Positive
>Temperature Coefficient(PTC) Resettable Devices. >
>RAYCHEM and Littelfuse both appear to be using some type of conductive
>polymer in their circuit protectors in lieu of wire links and moving parts.
>
There's at least on product on the market using these devices. I've
posted both a design review and a usenet thread which intereseted
parties may read at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/xpbusthd.html> >>
I have heard someone say that if very high currents are available in a system
with CBs that the CBs can explode and/or catch fire and/or weld closed and
'cause' a fire (upon a sudden, complete short), whereas fuses are MADE to
melt (even to the point of vaporizing), there by efficiently handling the
situation. If that possibility exists, both should be used, in series, with
the fuse a certain percent above the CB. (Not me, but I see the logic.)
Comments invited.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | tric Trim Runaway |
> I tried sending this once before, but got no mail for 3 days and never saw
>it when I started receiving it again. I am one of many who have electric
>elevator trim. If you have a stuck switch or relay, in other words a runaway
>trim. I for one would like to be able to reach over and pull the breaker
>before the situation becomes critical. Now I suppose I could wire in a
>cuttout switch if I wanted to, but that would fall under complicating the
>system. I know for a fact if the trim were all the way to one extreme you
>would have a hell of a time bringing the airplane back in one piece. I would
>consider this a saftey of flight item.
>
Thanks for staying with it. The matronics.com URL fell of the edge
of the world a few days ago and everybody's input to the list
was bounced or disappeared. There are still some funny things going
on as I've had to post one or two pieces twice to get them through
the pipe. Computers is wunderful!
Here's a case where I think complicating the system has good foundation
in pilot versus airplane ergonomics.
Pulling a breaker on trim runaway is too time consuming and there's
a lot of window for error. If your trim breaker is located in a whole
nest of other breakers, the possiblity of pulling the wrong one in
time of "tense pilot response" is great. Pulling the wrong one may
no have electrical consequences for flight for inadvertently shutting
down another system but it adds still more delays in perception and
resolution of multiple problems . . . all design and/or pilot induced.
In any case, pulling the breaker is far more time consuming than some
alternatives. During trim runaway, time is of the essence. The longer
you delay in effecting shutdown, the further out-of-trim the airplane
is going to be when the motor stops running . . . we need to shave
tens of milliseconds off of the perception-reaction-action time needed
to bring things under control.
I'm working on an article that suggests powerful electric trim systems
should require two switch actuations for operation . . . not unlike
requiring your starter current to also pass through the battery contactor.
You have a way to deal with a stuck starter contactor by shutting
of the battery master.
Suppose you had a stick grip with the usual coolie-hat trim button and
a second, "arm" button for all electric trims. The arm button would have
positive control over electrical power to all trim systems and would
have to be held closed at the same time you are commanding trim. The
advantage is that you hand is already on the control necessary to
disable the trim when the runaway happens. Even if the trim relay
stuck at the conclusion of your last trim operation (latent, unannunciated
failure) then as soon as you pressed the "arm" button, you'd get an un-
expected trim operation and your reaction to release the button is
a few hundred milliseconds away from successful trim shutdown . . . you
can't do it any faster any other way.
For airplanes with autopilots and powerful servos, the situation
is a bit different. Here we have mulitiple, electrically driven systems
with the ability to drive flight controls. The common wisdom here is
to fit the aircraft with an "autopilot disconnect" button on the wheel
or stick. When you think about it, the pilot's first reaction to
countering
an unexpected input from electrically powered flight controls is to grab
the stick to keep the dirty side down and the pointy end forward. It
stands to reason that all the controls necessary to corral the runaway
system should be on the stick or wheel too . . . the "autopilot disconnect"
or "master trim disconnect" button would have positive control over all
electrical devices connnected to flight controls.
When things are back under control, the pilot may elect to experiment a
bit to see if it was trim or autopilot that caused the upset and shut
down the offending system (perferably with panel mounted, clearly labeled
switches . . . not little black buttons hiding in a flock of other little
black buttons).
>. . . I know for a fact if the trim were all the way to one extreme you
>would have a hell of a time bringing the airplane back in one piece.
If this is true, has your trim system been fully evaluated for both
speed and travel limits? I have several builders I'm working with now
trying to get them to revise the mechanism that connects servos to tabs.
Trims in a mechanical limit on these airplanes produces a barely flyable
airplane.
This conversation goes right to the issue I raised a few weeks ago with
the Great Breaker Debate . . . we've commonly viewed and many of us have
been REQUIRED to compensate for POOR SYSTEM DESIGN by fiddling with
breakers.
IMHO, no matter what fails or how it fails in your airplane, your
reaction should be no worse than, "Oh fudge . . . is that thing
broke again! I think I'm gonna have to find a better part." My brothers
in the certified world would like to design airplanes with that
philosophy but are prevented by a host of regulatory and bureaucratic
walls and mountains. Unencumbered by such obstacles here in
amateur-built world, we're going to build the best airplanes that have
ever existed.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Thursby <jthursbyeuropa(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | heast Europa Squadron |
I thought since the West coast formed a squadron, the East had better
follow. I believe in Florida alone we have approxamatly 8 builders. Let's
come up with some ideas for this. You can E-mail me direct if you wish, or
post to the newsgroup.
Jim Thursby
U.S. builder AO52 N814AT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Warrington <mwarrington(at)dial.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Approx costs of construction |
> I will leave it to those who are in the know to answer the above, but I
> just had to voice my thoughts on your questions, Mark.
> IMHO, if everyone who was interested in starting a kit took the time and
> effort to do as you have above, the completion rate for kit planes would be
> dramatically improved. Congratulations on (1) Considering the Europa (as it
> is the best!) and (2) taking such a thoughtful approach to it. I hope this
> dream becomes a reality for you, as I have a feeling you will produce an
> excellent aircraft.
Steve,
Thanks for the enouragment. Still not sure the sums add up, so I might have to
wait a while...one day.
Cheers, Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Lowe" <DennisL(at)inovatec.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Loading-education required |
I see wing loading mentioned from time to time in aircraft reviews, but
never defined.
I can guess at a definition, but what is the connection to performance with
regard to
tolerating turbulence etc?
Can anyone help?!
Thanks
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | markt(at)avnet.co.uk (Mark Talbot) |
| Subject: | rman's Rally Report |
I liked Bill Wynne's frank report about his Rally experience. An honest
account of flying Europa 'expeditions' is enormously helpful and
encouraging. Coming as this one did from our Chairman it is particularly
appreciated. I am greatly looking forward to hearing about Europa Club plans
for flying events in 1998. How sad that the 650 m grass strip at Willy Howe
(Scarborough) is even now probably under the plough: it would have made a
perfect place for a fly-in, set in rolling, secluded wold country with a
village bub 1/2 a mile away. Let's come up with lots of ideas for the
committee to consider.
Mark Talbot (Europa G-BWCV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ivan Enchev Ivanov <nick(at)mbox.digsys.bg> |
| Subject: | e of Rotax UL engines |
Dear Sirs,
I would like to receive information about prices and delivery conditions
of Rotax Ultralight engines within the range between 600 to 800cc.
Sincerely,
Ivan Ivanov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Loading-education required |
> I see wing loading mentioned from time to time in aircraft reviews, but
> never defined.
> I can guess at a definition, but what is the connection to performance with
> regard to tolerating turbulence etc?
> Can anyone help?!
Wing loading is the area of the wing divided by the weight of the airplane.
A low wing loading airplane like a motorglider tends to be slower and is
more affected by turbulence (called thermals by the soaring crowd!). A
high wing loading airplane tend to be faster and are more able to ignore
turbulance, but they also land much faster (can be dangerous), do not climb
as well and have poor gliding abilities (important in an engine out emergency!).
The Europa seems to be about in the middle of the high performance airplanes
in regards to wing loading. I seem to remember it as being about 15 lb/ft
2.
The Cessna 152 is about 10 lb/ft
2. The range that I saw when I was looking
at various kit planes was between 12 lb/ft
2 and 18 lb/ft
2.
High altitude airplanes tend to have low wing loadings, since you need a big
wing to provide lift in thin air. I wonder how high a Europa with glider
wings and a 914 could go?
This metric is only an indication of how big a wing you have relative to the
size of the airplane; it is better to have a look at the cruise speed and
climb/glide abilities of the airplane rather than relying on wing loading.
Brian Rauchfuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PolySwitches |
Loontus(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << >There's no need for manual resetting or replacement. These devices are
> >available with trip points as low as 0.120 amps and as high as 9 amps. >
> >Littelfuse, which makes auto fuses, has a similiar product called Positive
> >Temperature Coefficient(PTC) Resettable Devices. >
> >RAYCHEM and Littelfuse both appear to be using some type of conductive
> >polymer in their circuit protectors in lieu of wire links and moving parts.
> >
> There's at least on product on the market using these devices. I've
> posted both a design review and a usenet thread which intereseted
> parties may read at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/xpbusthd.html> >>
>
> I have heard someone say that if very high currents are available in a system
> with CBs that the CBs can explode and/or catch fire and/or weld closed and
> 'cause' a fire (upon a sudden, complete short), whereas fuses are MADE to
> melt (even to the point of vaporizing), there by efficiently handling the
> situation. If that possibility exists, both should be used, in series, with
> the fuse a certain percent above the CB. (Not me, but I see the logic.)
> Comments invited.
> Dave
I've had the wondrous experience of a P-O-W of a 30 amp fuse in auto
panel. Gets your attention, it does!
Now use Heinneman (sp?) resettable breakers. They pop out, I push back
in. If it doesn't stay in I refrain from trying to reset til problem is
figured out and solved.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Southeast Europa Squadron |
James Thursby wrote:
>
> I thought since the West coast formed a squadron, the East had better
> follow. I believe in Florida alone we have approxamatly 8 builders. Let's
> come up with some ideas for this. You can E-mail me direct if you wish, or
> post to the newsgroup.
>
> Jim Thursby
> U.S. builder AO52 N814AT
Where do you propose to mount racks for flour bombs, model rockets,
etc.?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I have done multiple takeoffs with the trim in the full nose up position
>(left over from the previous touch and go)and although the stick pressures
>are a little stiff, there isn't a problem flying the plane in that
>configuration. . . . . . .
> . . . . . My plane is very capable of
>flying with full up trim, with me forceably pushing the stick forward to
>get an adequate cruise to the closest field where I would land without
>problems.
>
>I am not saying that a trim runaway would not be a problem, I was taking
>issue with the fact that it would be difficult to land safely in one of
>these conditions. . . .
I am pleased that you have taken the time and trouble to explore
the corners of the envelope on your own terms. You have a distinct
advantage over many other pilots (1) you've acquired some knowlege
as to the boundries on problems you may be presented with in the
future (2) you have "flown" the airplane and convinced yourself
that pilot workload in any possible situations is reasonable and
(3) should the worst happen, it isn't a total surprise for which you
have no previously considered response. Plan B for that situation is
alive and well in your cockpit.
Would that all spam can pilots know their airplanes so well. Somebody
made a statement that their particular aircraft's out of trim limts
were no worse than a 172 and no big deal . . Hmmmm . . . There are
three models of 172 on the field where I fly most often . . . got
to fly Young Eagles out there next Sat . . . I think I'm going to
spend a few minutes in each of those airplanes and see if my own
calibration agrees with the statement.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob,
>
>I think his statement about control may be valid for a Mark IV Kitfox
>as it uses a trim tab (i think). But a Series 5 uses the stab for
>trim control... This stab is much more powerful than a trim tab.
>I will try to do some testing in the next week and report my findings.
Very good! That's a most valuable service.
From another respondent:
>I think I have a reasonably fair general knowledge of flight
>characteristics even though I have not yet completed pilot training, but
>I am wondering about a comment you made in your most recent letter on
>>electric trim. You said "Trims in a mechanical limit on these airplanes
>produces a barely flyable airplane". Is it not true that trimming out an
>airplane should never require full range of operational limits?
I'd suggest that the converse argument be made. Mechnical stops
on pitch trim should be set to allow only necessary trim settings
to accomodate the airplane over it's speed/c.g. envelope.
>Or was
>that the point you were making when you were referring to the builders
>who connected the servos to the tabs? I would think it would be easy to
>design a bracket that would limit trim movement but not limit full range
>of motion for normal flying maneovers.
Exactly. One of the airplanes I'm working with was built with
6" wide tabs that run the full length of the elevators on BOTH
sides. The builders installed dual trim actuators. A common complaint
now is "Gee . . . I just barely touch the trim control and it moves
too far." Further investigation shows that the full range of
NEEDED trim is only about 10% of AVAILABLE trim. Electric actuators
on this airplane is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
Even if one sets good mechanical limits to cover the speed/c.g. envelope
it's still important to know how the airplane behaves should trim
be forced to either limit. I know that doing touch and go landings
in an A-36 can make the critter a handful if you don't give the trim
wheel about three good throws of nose down before you put power back
in for takeoff. Mechanical stops are a good thing but it's not the
whole answer . . . the whole discussiont about trim runaway is unresolvable
until the trim system is analyzed for EACH airframe.
Another ON-POINT comment:
>Most of the airplanes I've flown were still flyable with trim in both max up
>or down. The difference between the situation of Doug's and Graham's, is
>that Doug induced the situation, was expecting what would happen, and
>therefore was ready for it and was able to deal with it. In Graham's case,
>he was caught by surprise, had only milliseconds to make a decision, and
>elected to put it back on the ground. I've read several NTSB accident
>briefs that indicated that a pilot should have been able to handle a certain
>situation, ie., out of trim, etc., but for reasons of surprise and denial,
>wasn't able and either made the wrong decision or lost control of the
>aircraft. Had the pilot been expecting it the situation probably would have
>been easily overcome. I think the surprise and panic of a situation can put
>a person's brain into "lockup" momentarily which is all that it may take for
>disaster to occur. Fortunately, most of us will never be faced with having
>to find out what sort of ice we have in our veins.
>
No truer words spoken . . . see why I'm so rabid about cockpit simplicity
and architectures for Plan A/Plan B training? Look through any 100 NTSB
accident reports and compare numbers of accidents with human factors
contributions versus mechanical failures. Like people who write
regulations,
it's an easy knock-off to say we've deduced procedures or put tools in
place for every contingency . . . but you cannot regulate pilot attitudes,
perceptions and operating skills with an element of surprise. You can train
but who has the time or dollars and how many would submit to mandatory
training? Only I can take on responsability for how well I can perform.
In my limited experience in airplanes, my pucker-factor has peaked at over
100 psi on several occasions and none had anything to do with mechanics.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter S. Lert" <peterlert(at)montrose.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Runaway trim . . . |
There are a number of general aviation aircraft with trimmable
horizontal stabilizers that are capable of being mistrimmed to the point
that control is compromised (as are, of course, virtually all jets with
big, powerful trimming stabilizers and relatively small elevators).
The Cessna 180/185 series is a good example: unless you have a pretty
good load in the back seats or baggage compartments, it can _only_ be
landed three-point if the stab is trimmed just about all the way back on
final (necessitating forward pressure to hold final approach speed).
With anything less, there's just not enough elevator authority to
overcome the stab, and a half-assed wheel landing (with bounces) is
usually the result.
Similarly, early jets like the 707 could very easily run out of
elevator authority (one reason the elevator was kept small was to
provide manageable forces for the crew, since actuation is good ol'
cables and bellcranks). Note that this doesn't mean that the forces
were so high the crew couldn't handle them, but rather that you could
(fairly easily) pull the yoke to the stop without it doing much to the
airplane's flight path. You pretty much had to fly the airplane with
the trim, which was why it had dual actuators as well as the backup
handcrank in the cockpit.
To make matters even more fun, there were a couple of conditions
(high-speed dives) where the manual elevator, wimpy though it was as far
as pitching the airplane, could still generate enough force to stall the
trim motors--meaning that the only way to recover was to ease off the
back pressure while holding the trim switch until the motors started
running, then once again fly primarily with trim until back in level
flight. If you ever have a chance to ride in an old 70 (or even
something as a 72), you'll see and hear the trim in motion very
frequently during any speed or configuration changes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
The JPX 4 Stroke engine is excellant - |It has come a long way since the
days of VW conversions. Dyn Aero are currently fitting one to an MCR01 so
I'll soon know how it compares with the 912. Next year JPX promise a
magnesium alloy engine of 90/95 hp that is lighter than their current 85hp
engine.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
Paul,
Thanks for your offer to inspect burnt through exhaust pipe.
I am certainly willing to send you my pipe which is an "good" example. It
has a 5 cm long crack just in the bent radius and the steel it self "peels"
like an onion along the first 20 cm ....(it looks like "Strudelteig" or
"milles feuilles"....) In my opinion this is a clear sign of bad quality
steel or of badly " rolled" steel.
It is true that I had ThermoTec lagging on it up to the engine. Apparently
ThermoTec is silica based and when heated above a certain temp it will make
mild steel corrode - as some expert told us recently in this forum; however
I don't think that's the only reason as the pipes of my friend's Europa
also starts "peeling" after 40 hours with no Thermo-Tec on them.
I just received my new Exhaust systems from Europa and now also the main
exhaust/silencer is in mild steel (the previous one was still stainless
steel). Even new, there are already signs of corrosion all over .... so I
am wondering how long this one will last !
When mounting the tubes together I am wondering if I shall put some high
heat resistance Molybdenum grease or similar so the next time I can
disassemble the tubes from the main silencer box. Any suggestions?
Paul, could you please give me your address so I can send the pipe to you.
Thanks and best regards
Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | JPX Engines (Rotax) |
. Dyn Aero are currently fitting one to an MCR01 so
>I'll soon know how it compares with the 912. Next year JPX promise a
>magnesium alloy engine of 90/95 hp that is lighter than their current 85hp
>engine.
Just to add to the confusion (-which engine shall I fit?) Rotax are bringing
out a 100 hp version of the 912 (non-turbo)
With perhaps 9 months to go before I have to make a choice, it should be all
the more confusing (unless Jabiru light the fuse on the 6 cylinder project...)
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
For years we have used copper slip on the flexible joint on Rotax exhausts.
It works a bit but I suspect what ever you do it will still be difficlult
to seperate next time.
Jerry
----------
> From: Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com>
> Cc: Paul Marshall
> Subject: Re: exhaust pipe "failures"
> Date: 25 October 1997 12:02
>
> Paul,
>
> Thanks for your offer to inspect burnt through exhaust pipe.
> I am certainly willing to send you my pipe which is an "good" example. It
> has a 5 cm long crack just in the bent radius and the steel it self
"peels"
> like an onion along the first 20 cm ....(it looks like "Strudelteig" or
> "milles feuilles"....) In my opinion this is a clear sign of bad quality
> steel or of badly " rolled" steel.
>
> It is true that I had ThermoTec lagging on it up to the engine.
Apparently
> ThermoTec is silica based and when heated above a certain temp it will
make
> mild steel corrode - as some expert told us recently in this forum;
however
> I don't think that's the only reason as the pipes of my friend's Europa
> also starts "peeling" after 40 hours with no Thermo-Tec on them.
>
> I just received my new Exhaust systems from Europa and now also the main
> exhaust/silencer is in mild steel (the previous one was still stainless
> steel). Even new, there are already signs of corrosion all over .... so
I
> am wondering how long this one will last !
>
> When mounting the tubes together I am wondering if I shall put some high
> heat resistance Molybdenum grease or similar so the next time I can
> disassemble the tubes from the main silencer box. Any suggestions?
>
> Paul, could you please give me your address so I can send the pipe to
you.
>
> Thanks and best regards
>
>
> Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Thursby <jthursbyeuropa(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: was: JPX Engines (Rotax) |
I wouldn't hold your breath on the 100 hp 912 yet. I heard thru Kodiac that
it won't be available for 18 to 24 months
Jim Thursby
>. Dyn Aero are currently fitting one to an MCR01 so
>>I'll soon know how it compares with the 912. Next year JPX promise a
>>magnesium alloy engine of 90/95 hp that is lighter than their current 85hp
>>engine.
>
>Just to add to the confusion (-which engine shall I fit?) Rotax are bringing
>out a 100 hp version of the 912 (non-turbo)
>With perhaps 9 months to go before I have to make a choice, it should be all
>the more confusing (unless Jabiru light the fuse on the 6 cylinder
project...)
>
>Miles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Parker <silas(at)sirius.com> |
| Subject: | Re: was: JPX Engines (Rotax) |
What is the status of the BMW and Jabiru engines. It seems we skipped right
over those (which I assume should be fitted and flying by now) and are now
talking about a JPX! The BMW engine for example is $5000.00 new here in
the US (sans propeller and transmission) a considerable savings over Rotax
and though I only saw one reference to the cost of Jubiru and if memory
serves it was $4000 AUS. Both enginges are reputed to be excellent quality.
Does anyone out there know their status?
>. Dyn Aero are currently fitting one to an MCR01 so
>>I'll soon know how it compares with the 912. Next year JPX promise a
>>magnesium alloy engine of 90/95 hp that is lighter than their current 85hp
>>engine.
>
>Just to add to the confusion (-which engine shall I fit?) Rotax are bringing
>out a 100 hp version of the 912 (non-turbo)
>With perhaps 9 months to go before I have to make a choice, it should be all
>the more confusing (unless Jabiru light the fuse on the 6 cylinder
project...)
>
>Miles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
In message <199710250705_MC2-2510-762(at)compuserve.com>, Klaus Dietrich
<101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> writes
>I am wondering if I shall put some high
>heat resistance Molybdenum grease or similar so the next time I can
>disassemble the tubes from the main silencer box. Any suggestions?
Klaus,
I guess you're up at the top temperature limit of MoS2. Suggest you
follow Jerry's advice and use a propriety anti-sieze compund - they
usually contain copper, MoS2 and lead ( or at least they used to) .
Molykote make a good one. Call Ulbrich Betriebsgesellschaft.m.b.H in
Tribuswinkel (02252 80213 - 0, fax 02252 80659). and if you get to speak
to the good Hans Ulbrich himself( he'll talk to anyone - but he's
usually travelling) give him my regards and ask him when he is coming to
see me!
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <joelike(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: was: JPX Engines (Rotax) |
I'm still very much interested in Jabiru engines. I hope their six is
as light as the current 912.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
Hi Rolph, Hi Jerry,
Thanks for your advise. I'll try to find the product you are refering to.
Rolph, how on earth do you get to know such a forgotten place like
"Tributswinkel" ??
All the best and Servus
Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
All steel ex pipes corrode unless they are coated with either a ceramic or
ali plasma coating (and even then sometimes...) so unless you are ready to
replace them frequently they really should be some sort of stainless -and
they just corrode more slowly... the better the stainless, the slower they
corrode. You get what you pay for.
>
>When mounting the tubes together I am wondering if I shall put some high
>heat resistance Molybdenum grease or similar so the next time I can
>disassemble the tubes from the main silencer box. Any suggestions?
About the only thing is a a copper loaded grease (Copaslip), although
silicon RTV works excellently as a pipe to head gasket goo.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <HKilian(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
Message text written by INTERNET:europa(at)avnet.co.uk
>I have always wondered how true to the design airfoil profile you could
build a hot wired foam core wing when you weren't given coordinates or
templates for key stations. Dr. Selig at the University of Illinois,
co-designer of the NLF(1)-0115 airfoil that I think is very similar to
Don Dykins Europa Airfoil, is very annimate about the accuracy necessary
to achieve all of the design characteristics of any given airfoil.<
Same issue we have been discussing alot: Unless you build 'em in stiff
molds, these wings will not come out the same. Using a laminar profile
makes things worse since long laminar flow will only be achieved by keeping
the profile within very small tolerances. Thirty five years of making
laminar flow glider wings with the lowest drag coefficients to be found for
our Reynolds numbers should have proven this. All gliders of same type are
very close in performance and we race against each other with the pilot
being the big variable.
I sure am glad Ivan is finally making wing skins from a hopefully good mold
(Europa XS), which in turn has been either NC milled directly or was make
from a highly precise master plug.
Herbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
Miles,
Thanks for your mail and advise.
Just want to know if this ceramic or plasma coating can still be done on
our exhausts ?
And what about stainless steel exhausts - why can't Europa's manufacturer
make them anymore? Apperently they did the very first exhausts in stainless
steel and then stopped. I am sure we all would be prepared to pay a little
extra to avoid changing the exhaust every 60 houres (for me this was from
May 97 until Sept 97 !!)
Klaus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Walters" <xjx01(at)dial.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Alumiprep |
I have been trying to buy these chemicals in the UK. AC Spruce etc. cannot
help, as there seem to be problems with carriage of them from the USA,
under the Nasty Substances Regulations. The few people I know with the
stuff brought out a few gallons wrapped on their socks.
But they may be available from:-
Henkel Ltd - Henkel Ltd. Stand: C19. Tel: 0181 804 3343 Fax: 0181 443 4321.
Address:Henkel House,292-308 Southbury Road,Enfield, Middlesex EN1 1TS
Dave Walters
Builder 215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
>>why can't Europa's manufacturer make them anymore? Apperently they did
the very first exhausts in stainless
steel and then stopped.<<
Grussen Klaus. they had a couple of cracked down pipes, probably caused by
unbalanced props and the weight of the silencer. The makers got frightened
at the risk of product liability and decided mild steel was the answer.
WRONG !?! {:-)
In a recent Sport Aviation there was a very nice 4 into 1 exhaust on a
Kitfox, bit of a waste but no matter. That would be nice. There is also a
nice but different 4 into 1 on a certain French plane from Dijon. I'm sure
Christoph Robin would give you a price.
Easiest answer is to return to stainless but support the weight of the
exhaust system at the rear from the lower engine mount tube. Tested so far
to 130 hours on GK Whip. Our exhausts are wrapped up to the cylinder head
and are stainless.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
>>Using a laminar profile makes things worse since long laminar flow will
only be achieved by keeping
the profile within very small tolerances<<
I thought that modern laminar sections were much more tolerant of rain and
bug contamination than they used to be. Hence the term NLF, natural laminar
flow. Doesn't that imply more tlerance to inaccuracy?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
A
>Just want to know if this ceramic or plasma coating can still be done on
>our exhausts ?
I used to have it done on racing motorcycle exhausts 15+ years ago -no idea
where you'd get it done. The disadvantage is that if it cracks, you have to
grind away the coating either side of the crack for 2-3 mm so iot can be
welded -and then it might not take.
>And what about stainless steel exhausts - why can't Europa's manufacturer
>make them anymore? Apperently they did the very first exhausts in stainless
>steel and then stopped. I am sure we all would be prepared to pay a little
>extra to avoid changing the exhaust every 60 houres (for me this was from
>May 97 until Sept 97 !!)
No doubt price has something to do with it -really good stuff is really
expensive. There are plenty of good racing exhaust firms about who can
reproduce anything in a decent material. The prefered material is S-524
(Titanium stabilised stainless) although S-321 is in practice exactly the
same without the aerospace price.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europajim(at)juno.com (James H. Nelson) |
Has any one found a source for inertial reels for the shoulder harness?
I have a 23 year stint with the U.S. Army in helicopters and a inertial
reel was used on the shoulder harness. Why you say? Well after my first
ride in an Europa, I found that I could not reach things when the harness
was up-snug proper. A lockable version is prefered as when I was
demonstrated rolls etc. a snug harness is mandatory. Also if flying in
any turbulence, a lockable version is prefered. I'm sure that some
automotive version would be fine except that you could not lock it up
when you wanted it locked.
europajim(at)juno.com
A058
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter S. Lert" <peterlert(at)montrose.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inertial Reels |
Actually, some automotive reels _can_ be locked, usually electrically.
I had a Mazda station wagon about 20 years ago with that feature; you
could hear and feel the reels lock up if you cornered hard. Check out
the junkyards.
A couple of alternatives:
1.) Military surplus--check with a Warbird organization.
2.) Most of the automotive reels do have a locking feature, activated
by rapid extension (e.g., during a crash). If you lean way back in the
seat, then grab the harness and give a brisk jerk, chances are that
it'll lock while still remaining snug. To unlock, lean way back once
again.
3.) You can modify an automotive reel by drilling a few holes in the
flange at one end and rigging up a locking plunger, through the metal
frame, operated by a bicycle handbrake cable or similar.
Although I was never an Army aviator, the guy who taught me to fly
helos (Maj. George Stapp, an old Hook driver) and various other friends
are graduates of "Mother Rucker," and they're all good guys.
good luck, psl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ust burn through |
I have an appointment and will fly D-EHBT to Heggemann Flugzeugteile in
Paderborn next week for them to measure up for an exhaust header replacement kit
that will replace the standard carbon steel manifold bends with 321 type
stainless steel (this is the titanium stabilised stainless that has been, quite
rightly, suggested as being the best "affordable" material. It is suitable for
use up to about 800C)
I will let you know how I get on and what they propose.
Heggemann manufacture exhaust systems and other welded components for just about
everything that flies!
Best regards to all of you.
Barry Tennant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <fkyle(at)bigwave.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Alumiprep |
----------
>
> I have been trying to buy these chemicals in the UK. AC Spruce etc. cannot
> help, as there seem to be problems with carriage of them from the USA,
> under the Nasty Substances Regulations. The few people I know with the
> stuff brought out a few gallons wrapped on their socks.
>
> But they may be available from:-
>
>
> Henkel Ltd - Henkel Ltd. Stand: C19. Tel: 0181 804 3343 Fax: 0181 443 4321.
> Address:Henkel House,292-308 Southbury Road,Enfield, Middlesex EN1 1TS
> Dave Walters
> Builder 21
Hang on, there.............
Let's not have any loose talk about snaeking Alodyne or Alumaprep back in
our socks.......... First of all, there's avery good reason for declaring these
as HAZARDOUS MATERIEL NOT NASTY SUBSTANCES. Wordsmithing don't cut it.
I've lost a number of fellow birdmen to such behaviour as this and seen airline
VP's go to jail for trying it. THE STUFF IS DANGEROUS.
Secondly, there is definitely a method for transporting the material........you
just have to be humble enough to think that some of the best minds on the
job are your equals, and comply.
This is not epoxy-poo, this is ACID. Rhar's why it works so well. If we haven't
the self-discipline to accede to Air Transport HAZMAT regs, maybe we don;t
have the necessary wherewithall to share the real pilot's sky.
Happy landings,
Ferg Kyle #A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
A mate of mine drags up from a wide circle of people all over the world a
wide variety of funnies regularly and sends them on. . If you have a few
minutes and a sense of humour read on. If you say your a/c will only take
about 2 years to build, these will obviously be for you as you definitely
have "a sense of humour"!
Ponder This......
Actual bumper stickers:
THE GENE POOL COULD USE A LITTLE CHLORINE.
TIME IS WHAT KEEPS THINGS FROM HAPPENING ALL AT ONCE
I DIDN'T FIGHT MY WAY TO THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN TO BE A VEGETARIAN.
YOUR KID MAY BE AN HONOR STUDENT, BUT YOU'RE STILL AN IDIOT
IF WE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO EAT ANIMALS, WHY ARE THEY MADE OF MEAT?
FEW WOMEN ADMIT THEIR AGE, FEW MEN ACT IT.
I DON'T SUFFER FROM INSANITY, I ENJOY EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
IT'S LONELY AT THE TOP, BUT YOU EAT BETTER.
LOVE: TWO VOWELS, TWO CONSONANTS, TWO FOOLS.
ACCORDING TO MY CALCULATIONS, THE PROBLEM DOESN'T EXIST.
SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM.
PRIDE IS WHAT WE HAVE. PITY IS WHAT OTHERS HAVE.
FORGET ABOUT WORLD PEACE...VISUALIZE USING YOUR TURN SIGNAL.
WARNING: DATES ON CALENDAR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR.
WE HAVE ENOUGH YOUTH, HOW ABOUT A FOUNTAIN OF "SMART."
MAKE IT IDIOT PROOF, AND SOMEONE WILL MAKE A BETTER IDIOT.
HE WHO LAUGHS LAST THINKS SLOWEST.
ALWAYS REMEMBER YOU'RE UNIQUE, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
LOTTERY: A TAX ON PEOPLE WHO ARE BAD AT MATH.
VERY FUNNY, SCOTTY! NOW BEAM DOWN MY CLOTHES.
PURITANISM: THE HAUNTING FEAR THAT SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE MAY BE HAPPY.
CONSCIOUSNESS: THAT ANNOYING TIME BETWEEN NAPS.
3 KINDS OF PEOPLE: THOSE WHO CAN COUNT AND THOSE WHO CAN'T.
WHY IS "ABBREVIATION" SUCH A LONG WORD?
EVER STOP TO THINK, AND FORGET TO START AGAIN?
DIPLOMACY IS THE ART OF SAYING "NICE DOGGIE!"...TILL YOU CAN FIND A ROCK.
I LIKE YOU BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE YOU WORKING WITH SUB-ATOMIC
PARTICLES.
"AUNTIE EM: HATE YOU, HATE KANSAS, TAKING THE DOG." -DOROTHY
LEAD ME NOT INTO TEMPTATION, I CAN FIND IT MYSELF.
ESCHEW OBFUSCATION.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Re Ailerons / Wing efficiency |
>You obviously haven't read that bit of my log.....
>
>I was working on the ailerons one evening when Carol called me in for dinner.
>I put the ailerons down on the floor behind the car as the rest of my
>workspace was full. After dinner Carol asked me to go and get some milk so I
>got in the car, opened the garage door and reversed! The slight bump reminded
>me where my ailerons were so, muttering politely under my breath (not), I got
>out to inspect them. There wasn't a mark on them, even where the car had gone
>over the flange! I decided to scrap them anyway and got in a new set of cores
>from Europa. Did you know you can actually make a pair of ailerons in a week.
>
>As an exercise I decide to test one to destruction. It took a _lot_ of effort
>with a large sledge hammer before I could get it to crack. The force required
>to break the aileron really surprised me and has given me a lot of confidence
>in moldless composite construction.
>
>I mentioned this incident to Ivan while I was up there and he said that I
>needn't have bothered scrapping them!
Get Ivan to be the first to fly your a/c then!!!!I doubt he would want a
Europa flying that he knew had such an experience during its construction.
Maybe if you hadn't bought a new pair the answer would have been slightly
different. Can I have a go at the spare remaining aileron next time I come
to Auckland with your sledge hammer?? :-)
>
>Tony
>
>
>> Tony K,
>> Surely you_ "didn't"_, did you??? :-(((
>> >
>> >If you build it according to instructions it is just fine. If you want a
>> >confidence builder have a go at driving over one of your ailerons :-)
>> >
>> Reg
>> T.R.
>>
>>
>
>---------------End of Original Message-----------------
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
>Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
>Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
>Auckland New Zealand
>
>Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
>Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
>and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
>----------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Christoph Both" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Alumiprep |
Fully agree,
Christoph Both #223
Wolfville, Halifax, Canada
Subject: Re: Re: Alodine & Alumiprep
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 97 15:57:26 GMT
----------
>
> I have been trying to buy these chemicals in the UK. AC Spruce etc. cannot
> help, as there seem to be problems with carriage of them from the USA,
> under the Nasty Substances Regulations. The few people I know with the
> stuff brought out a few gallons wrapped on their socks.
>
> But they may be available from:-
>
>
> Henkel Ltd - Henkel Ltd. Stand: C19. Tel: 0181 804 3343 Fax: 0181 443 4321.
> Address:Henkel House,292-308 Southbury Road,Enfield, Middlesex EN1 1TS
> Dave Walters
> Builder 21
Hang on, there.............
Let's not have any loose talk about snaeking Alodyne or Alumaprep back in
our socks.......... First of all, there's avery good reason for declaring these
as HAZARDOUS MATERIEL NOT NASTY SUBSTANCI've lost a number of fellow birdmen
to such behaviour
as this and seen airline VP's go to jail for trying it. THE STUFF IS DANGEROUS.
Secondly, there is definitely a method for transporting the material........you
just have to be humble enough to think that some of the best minds on the
job are your equals, and comply.
This is not epoxy-poo, this is ACID. Rhar's why it works so well. If we haven't
the self-discipline to accede to Air Transport HAZMAT regs, maybe we don;t
have the necessary wherewithall to sha
Happy landings,
Ferg Kyle #A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMARPAL SINGH SETHI <amarpal(at)giasbma.vsnl.net.in> |
DEAR SIRS,
WE ARE TRADING IN PISTON & PISTON RINGS SINCE
LAST 30 YEARS IN BOMBAY , (INDIA).WE ARE ALREADY
IMPORTING PISTON & PISTON RINGS FROM TAIWAN, JAPAN & UK.
WE GOT YOUR E-MAIL NO THROUGH THE NET & ARE
REQUESTING YOU TO PLEASE SEND YOUR LOWEST PRICE LIST
AS PER OUR EXPORT ENQUIRY FOR LANDROVER , PEUGEOT ,
B.M.C ETC.PLEASE SEND THE CATALOGUE & THE PRICE LIST FOR
EXPORT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AT OUR BELOW ADDRESS;
GOODLUCK AUTO PARTS CO.
VALLABH TERRACE
505 , S.V.P. ROAD
MUMBAI -400004
PHONE : 0091-22-3827268
0091-22-3827784
FAX : 0091-22-3896358
E-MAIL NO : amarpal(at)giasbma.vsnl.net.in
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust pipe "failures" |
Re my earlier note on copper slip. Ensure the pipes are not likeley to slip
apart. It can be very embarressing.
I am not sure that the Ban-bi exhaust (proposed by Graham) would fit a
Europa. The Ban-bi installation is very tight and the first silencer passes
close behind the back of the 912. Also at over 1000 pounds before VAT it is
not cheap. I am trying to decide whether to go for the French stainless
exhaust or having one made here. There is a possibility that I could bring
one back from France and offer it up to a Europa if there seemed sufficient
interest. Apart from a very minor problem (see note above) I am not aware
of any corrosion or cracking problems on the Ban-bi.
It may be better and cheaper to copy Graham's system using what I think is
a standard system with extra support.
Jerry
----------
> From: Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: exhaust pipe "failures"
> Date: 27 October 1997 00:18
>
> >>why can't Europa's manufacturer make them anymore? Apperently they did
> the very first exhausts in stainless
> steel and then stopped.<<
>
> Grussen Klaus. they had a couple of cracked down pipes, probably caused
by
> unbalanced props and the weight of the silencer. The makers got
frightened
> at the risk of product liability and decided mild steel was the answer.
> WRONG !?! {:-)
>
> In a recent Sport Aviation there was a very nice 4 into 1 exhaust on a
> Kitfox, bit of a waste but no matter. That would be nice. There is also a
> nice but different 4 into 1 on a certain French plane from Dijon. I'm
sure
> Christoph Robin would give you a price.
>
> Easiest answer is to return to stainless but support the weight of the
> exhaust system at the rear from the lower engine mount tube. Tested so
far
> to 130 hours on GK Whip. Our exhausts are wrapped up to the cylinder head
> and are stainless.
>
> Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
You need to keep from downing Gull wing doors, this ios a good idea.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ust burn through |
>> the titanium stabilised stainless that has been, quite
rightly, suggested as being the best "affordable" material. It is suitable
for
use up to about 800=B0C)<<
The exhaust gas temp of a 912 is well over 800 deg C. Not many folks know
that, since only a few of us bother to measure EGT.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
I am trying to find the melting point of plexi glass. Can you help me with
this?
Thank you.
Mary Lou Seeberger
Marshall Miller & Associates
Lexington, Kentucky, USA
e-mail address: mmalex(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Alumiprep |
They are available directly from Henkel but may be purchased from their
distributors. Trouble is you have to buy 10 kg of Allodine at around 200
pound. I bought 10 kg of which three people have asked for some and I think
Dyn Aero are going to take the rest.
Jerry
----------
> From: Dave Walters <xjx01(at)dial.pipex.com>
> Subject: Re: Alodine & Alumiprep
> Date: 26 October 1997 21:38
>
>
> I have been trying to buy these chemicals in the UK. AC Spruce etc.
cannot
> help, as there seem to be problems with carriage of them from the USA,
> under the Nasty Substances Regulations. The few people I know with the
> stuff brought out a few gallons wrapped on their socks.
>
> But they may be available from:-
>
>
> Henkel Ltd - Henkel Ltd. Stand: C19. Tel: 0181 804 3343 Fax: 0181 443
4321.
> Address:Henkel House,292-308 Southbury Road,Enfield, Middlesex EN1 1TS
>
>
> Dave Walters
>
> Builder 215
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: digital protractor |
> I understand there is a digital protractor that comes with the
>standard warp drive prop. Can it be purchased seperately? Send info on
>this item. Thank you. Sjheindl(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
No - the protractor is analogue but, although plastic, has a Vernier scale
and could probably be used for purposes other than the original one of
setting blade angles.
Regards
Roger Bull>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the input Graham. Does anyone have information on the highest
usual exhaust temperature on the 912.
There are of course stainless steels and other alloys that are resistant to
higher temperatures but they are not always available in the welded pipe needed
for these types of systems and also much more expensive.
If anyone is thinking of buying an exhaust other that the Europa standard system
I would suggest that they wait a little while as Heggemann has suggested that
they could make a system equally as quiet but about 3 Kg lighter (this
alleviates part of the manifold problem).
It is also good to note that they have a Dynometer in house which helps with the
design criteria and reduction of back pressure in the system.
I must say that after 20 hours flying now, with the exception of the
start/landing difficulties the aircraft is a delight to fly and meets or exceeds
all of the specs promised by Europa.
regard to you all
Barry Tennant D-EHBT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Stewart <alans(at)kbss.bt.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust systems |
> Thanks for the input Graham. Does anyone have information on the highest
> usual exhaust temperature on the 912.
I suppose it must depend on the configuration. In my case the exhaust has
always been lagged, the carb needles raised by 1 notch from normal. (richer
mixture). I suspect the EGT sensors are accurate (they certainly are when
measuring ambient temp before engine start).
They run cooler now, but the engine used to regularly blink the warning
on the FLYDAT (flashing indication) and on one occasion triggered the max
("SERVICE!") indicator. I think that value is 900 or 930 centigrade. (check
with Nigel Beale of 'Skydrive').
In any case I was told this was much too hot. I start to get worried at about
870 C !! (typical values this year on FX were in the range 770 - 840)
alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | er control failure |
There was an early failure of the right rudder pedal leading to Mod. 12. So
where is the next point of failure ? The tail wheel has a very positive
stop, so there is nothing to stop you stressing the cable as far as your
strength allows. A cable of this diameter is rated at 1080 lb. and with a
properly formed nicopress sleeve it should be safe. But having had a
(possibly faulty) sleeve pull through in the landing roll with alarming
results, I wonder why we need to allow this over-stressing, which tends to
stretch the cable system anyway with time.
The good book gives a _minimum_ space of 15mm. beyond the pedal, presumably
to ensure that there is enough travel to provide the maximum force needed
through the elasticity of the cables, but IMHO you need a maximum stop too
behind the rudder pedal to prevent overstressing. With the new tail wheel
one will not even have the positive stops any more on the tail casting, and
from a quick look the force will go onto some rather flimsier stops. So
there would seem to be a case for positive stop blocks on the footwell behind
the rudder pedals.
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master Switch |
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:31:33
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: Re: Master Switch
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>First off I visited your web site, it's great. I'll kindly explain why
>>I, others and many manufactures feel an avionics master switch is useful.
>
> . . . there's a difference between "useful" and "necessary" . . .
>
>> First off, it's nice to be able to turn on everything with just one
>>switch but that does have it's draw backs as you know.
>
> . . . not the least of which is single point of failure for every
> electronic item. Further, contemporary bus architectures don't
> accomodate essential goodies with a second, totally isolated
> power path . . a few folk have installed a second switch across
> the first path, "just in case."
>
>> . . . . I'm not sure just
>>how much avionics you've installed but my guess is very little.
>
> True. I've not been personally involved in installation of
> off-the-shelf products in many airplanes . . . perhaps a large
> gap in my education or I would have discovered earlier how
> bad some of these products are, to wit:
>
>> . . . . . . If
>>you've ever installed a GEM, IIMorrow 360, Shadin air data computer or
>>BFG 900 in a 4 cyl Lycoming powered aircraft and started it with the
>>avionics on you will scramble the software and at least one of the above
>>items. Often you can reset the instrument by just shutting the avionics
>>master switch off and then back on.
>
> Why do you purchase and install this kind of stuff in your airplane?
> As I mentioned earlier, I've been designing electronics systems for
> aircraft for a long time (25+ years). The gizmos ranged from simple
> low voltage warning systems to a servoed trim speed controller
> that's currenty flying on the majority of the Lear fleet. I'm a
> consultant to several manufacturers of modern, microprocessor
> based components for aircraft and other vehicular applications
> (you can't escape them any more, microprocessors are everywhere).
> This type of behavior is unacceptable to my customers and unacceptable
> to me as a designer. If you don't box these things up and send
> them back, you've told your supplier that his design is "acceptable".
> If the computer on which I write this barfed like that more than
> a few times, it would be back in the box . . . or at least worked
> on to fix the problem. My microprocessors don't go dumb with every
> hicup on the bus, why should I accept it that anyone else's does?
>
>> . . . . . If the battery is weak, then the
>>problem is worse. I haven't seen avionics software scramble with the
>>master switch left on as much with the big bore continentals. This is
>>probably because they are 6 cyls and low compression. Put and "O" scope
>>on the avionics buss and start a Lycoming, you will see spikes not just
>>low voltage.
>
> How "big" and for how long?
>
>>I don't think radios were designed to work during most piston aircraft
>>starting, this is not ordinarly. I sent Mike Busch a couple of notes
>>from King and Collins stating that an avionics master was desired. . .
>
> I'd like copies of those letters . . or the name of the person
> at the bottom.
>
>>DO-160 is not revelent to all avionics such as GEMS and sorts.
>
> DO-160 is relevant to any piece of electrical equipment the manufacturer
> chooses to apply it to. It's not a specification but a test method.
> If you have any gizmo capable of being an antagonist or victim to
> other equipment, DO-160 outlines test methods for various conditions
> found aboard an airplane. It's applicable to ANYTHING you want
> investigate for suitability of use on aircraft.
>
>> . . . . . I don't
>>know of any current aircraft that doesn't have an avionics master from
>>the factory, even the new Cessna models. I just got out of a Citation 5
>>and the check list had "Avionics Master Off" BEFORE the start button was
>>pushed.
>
> I don't doubt it. I was working at Cessna when we put the first ones
> in the airplane and based on what we knew then, the fragility of the
> radios, the lack of design standards, and the general attituded that
> "more gizmos is better" I thought it was a good idea then too. The
> thing that mystifies me is why, in 30 years since, we've not
> learned as designers to do any better and why as consumers, we
> put up with what ever the manufacturer wants to sell us.
>
> After designing to meet performance specifications, the #2 design
> item on my list is stand up to EVERYTHING the airplane can throw
> at me. I can also tell you that the task is trivial compared to
> other design requirements. I just finished qualifying a new
> autopilot for a military program. This piece of hardware would
> survive quite nicely in any single engine airplane too . . . the
> autopilot costs about $9,000 to build. The cost of components to
> insure survival from bus induced hazards is under $10.
>
>>Is an avionics master needed??? In my opinion it is, nor will I do an
>>installation without one but you definately can have your own opinion.
>>That's called America:)
>
> But here's the ace-kicker. The avionics master switch is a
> check-list item. I cannot count how many times I've stepped into
> a rental airplane and found the avionics master switch still on. If
> a missed or ignored check-list item truly puts some very expensive
> part of the airplane at risk then I'll suggest there's a SERIOUS
> design problem here, would you disagree? Don't pilots have enough
> responsabilites as pilots without burdening them with guardianship
> of fragile or balky electronics? In virtually EVERY segment of
> consumer electronics from Matel Toys to the fire-breathing, byte
> thrashers on my desk, the value and capability of electronics-for-
> the-people gets better almost daily. Yet we as pilots and owners
> of airplanes take it in the shorts because there's some aura about
> "aircraft quality" or "certified" hardware that has put our best
> senses as consumers to sleep.
>
> You say you have documentation from manufacturers wherein they
> recommend an avionics master switches. You also allude to special
> action on the part of the pilot to coax pieces of equipment into
> normal operation. Wouldn't it be better to encourage, nay INSIST
> that manufacturer to live up to a trivial responsability? A 1960's
> attidude of avionics consumerism puts little pressure on them to
> do better. I work with hundreds of individuals who are assembling their
own
> airplanes. We design and fabricate systems that are failure tolerant
> and free of trash that exceeds the capability of DO-160 qualified
> stuff to SURVIVE. Since we're building the best single engine airplanes
> that ever were, I counsel my friends to not tolerate any lapse in
> supplier responsabilities to provide equipment suited to the task.
> This includes both matters of survivability and operability.
>
> Your constituency is pretty much stuck with "what you see is
> what you get" from the aircraft manufacturing community. Customer
> relations of these firms may claim to have customer's best
> interests in mind but I'll suggest they demonstrate otherwise.
> When the kind of products you describe are allowed to continue
> to flow into new applications, it's a glaring example of breakdown
> in supplier consumer relations and manufacturers responsabilities
> to REDUCE pilot workload not increase it.
>
> I really like to get some names of contacts you can supply for
> any firm that suggests that an avionics master switch is useful.
>
>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control failure, etc |
I noted that Graham gave the load limit on the rudder cable as 1080 lb. In
the US all cable sizes quoted for aircraft use are in inches; the 3/32" cable
is rated at 920 lb in the FAA's AC43.13-1A which is the only reference I have
seen on acceptable aircraft construction practices. Is this difference in
strength due to mm cable vs inch cable?
AC43.13-1A gives the specification on 18-2-G Nicopress sleeves as a change in
length from 7/16 to 1/2 inch rather than the diameter after compression with
a tested strength of 1180 lbs (greater than the cable!). Since the 3mm cable
is slightly larger than 3/32", what should the length of the sleeve be after
compression with the cable supplied? I have measured it at .530 to .540 but
the sleeves measure about .010 long prior to compression. Seems like this
info should be included in the manual for us first time builders.
And, the same reference specifies that zinc plated sleeves are required with
stainless cable while copper sleeves should be used with carbon steel cables.
Is this important?
Also, one of my project advisors has suggested using two Nicopress sleeves
instead of one on all cable ends in the rudder system, based on failures
reported in amateur built aircraft. His position is that it is cheap
insurance from both a cost and weight standpoint. Comments?
In another area, the DAR who will do the final inspection on completion
visited recently for an informal in-process inspection. He was generally
impressed with the quality of the kit but suggested two changes for safety
reasons. First, he said that any bolt subject to rotation in use should not
use self-locking nuts -- he noted that the bolt connecting TS05 to the trim
bellcrank was subject to rotation and should be pinned. Second, he said that
the roll pins which secure the LG08's should have two turns of safety wire
through them.
Finally, in the US rod ends need an inspection hole drilled to allow
verification of sufficient thread engagement by poking a wire into this hole.
The rod ends supplied did not have inspection holes so drilling was needed.
Is this required in the UK also?
I knew that building an airplane would be a learning experience, but the
depth of my ignorance has exceeded all expectations. Every day brings many
more questions than answers. It is truly humbling.
Regards, John A044 Newtown, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Not 30 minutes after I mailed a response to Mr. Rogers on the
specifics of avionics master switches and "aircraft quality parts"
in general, I've sat down and my desk to review the following
situation:
I'm evaluating test results on a product that Raytheon is
purchasing for one of our better customers . . . the US Navy.
I wrote the specification used to obtain quotations from
would-be suppliers and ultimately used to write acceptance
test procedures. I have the results of about a week's worth
of testing on the desk in front of me.
This product has a microprocessor that controls its
inner workings. Not unlike the PC upon which I write these
words, the gizmo comes up ready to go to work when I flip
the ON switch . . . most of the time. A few of the units
come up dumb. A reboot by turning the power off and back
on will sometimes wake 'em up, pressing the front panel
"RESET" button seems to always wake 'em up.
My specification did not require a front panel reset button
nor did it prohibit one. The manufacturer's instructions
do not speak to the use of the reset button . . . but most
users of computer-based gizmos understand how they are used.
This piece of equipment is one of a dozen pieces in a test set.
The older product I'm replacing has NO front panel controls and
comes to work wide-eyed, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on power-
up.
My question to all of you is this. I COULD request that our
customer revise their operator's manual for the test set
to "push reset button on box "B" 20 seconds after test set
power up." This wouldn't be a really big deal . . they're
going to revise the manual for other reasons associated with
this upgrade program anyway. We're not even talking about
a cockpit environment here . . . but it is one piece of
many pieces on the test set. The start up procedure is
extensive. Failure of the operator to observe the "check
list" item could cause needless delay in testing a target.
How do you vote?
( ) Revise the manual and ship the product as is . . .
( ) Insist that the manufacturer conform to REASONABLE
EXPECTATIONS for performance even though it was
NOT explicit in my specification?
Results of the poll to be published in a few days. I'll add
another item to your consideration. I have a deadline approaching
that could cost us penalties for failure to make scheduled
delivery. The customer probably wouldn't object to my request
for changing the operator's manual . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | t "vote" on this list . . . |
I appologize for not opening my invitation to "vote" with
the following: Anyone wanting to "vote" please mail
directly to me at
I'm sorry to have rattled some sensibilities with respect
to applicabilty to this list but there is a point. It
relates to our willingness as consumers of very expensive
components that are ostensibly spec'ed, tso'ed, shaked
baked and blessed with regulatory holy water. Then we're
told that that the warranty is void if we ask suppliers
to meet pretty ordinary requirements for longevity and
operation.
BTW . . The "vote" is running 5:1 in favor of having the folks
make it work right. My boss agrees. This kind of thing
is more than my "work problem", it relates to every one
of you who, as a one-person airplane factory, has to make
these same kinds of decisions. The avionics master switch
discussion had probably rolled some eyes back and produced
reactions akin to, "geezzz. . . he's at it again . . ."
Yup, it's these kinds of discussions that come up in my
work every day. They come up all over this airplane factory
every day . . . how about YOUR airplane factory? And where
else but right here do you expect to gather information to
help you reslove the answer?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I am trying to find the melting point of plexi glass. Can you help me
with
this?<<
It has no precise melting point. It starts to go soft around 130 deg C. At
200 deg it is very floppy and if there is any water absorbed this will
start to boil off causing blistering.
Graham,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> with the exception of the start/landing difficulties the aircraft is a
delight to fly<<
When you have cracked it, (ie are in front of the aeroplane) T.O. & landing
are equally rewarding. There is adequate control for surprisingly demanding
situations. Downhill, gusty crosswinds and worse.. It's down to perception,
you need to observe what the bird is going to do in the next few
milliseconds and react accordingly. It comes with practice, even to old
fools like me.
Try and develop your sense of periferal vision. The view over the front is
too limited.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control failure, etc |
>>The rod ends supplied did not have inspection holes so drilling was
needed.
Is this required in the UK also?<<
Strictly speaking, yes it is. Your inspector should be able to verify the
depth of thread.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | er control failure |
>>from a quick look the force will go onto some rather flimsier stops. So
there would seem to be a case for positive stop blocks on the footwell
behind
the rudder pedals.<<
True, also a case for some means of preventing the loads of a panicing
pilot and or instructor pushing on both pedals from reaching the same
flimsy structure. Hence my preference for retaining the rudder push rod.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | for "supersonic" Prout |
Kim,
I am following your sketch for fitting wing tip lights onto my Europa. How
did you mount the glass mounting plate on the wing tip? Did you lay it up
onto the foam first then lay the surface bid on or did you do the surface
work first and position your plate afterwards?
Do you mind if I publish your document on my web page (with due credit of
course!)
Thanks
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control failure, etc |
..... Seems like this
> info should be included in the manual for us first time builders.
I agree, this has already led to one incident!
>
> And, the same reference specifies that zinc plated sleeves are required
with
> stainless cable while copper sleeves should be used with carbon steel
cables.
> Is this important?
Every document I have seen referencing Nicopress sleeves agrees with you
comment above so I would stick to it.
>
> Also, one of my project advisors has suggested using two Nicopress sleeves
> instead of one on all cable ends in the rudder system, based on failures
> reported in amateur built aircraft. His position is that it is cheap
> insurance from both a cost and weight standpoint. Comments?
There is a professional Nicopress installer who lives a couple of km from me.
His policy is to -always- install two sleeves even when using thin cable.
>
> In another area, the DAR who will do the final inspection on completion
> visited recently for an informal in-process inspection. He was generally
> impressed with the quality of the kit but suggested two changes for safety
> reasons. First, he said that any bolt subject to rotation in use should not
> use self-locking nuts
This would then include several on the flap arms would it not. I have seen
reference to safetying any nuts subject to rotation before. Any comments.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert F. Kilian" <HKilian(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
Message text written by INTERNET:europa(at)avnet.co.uk
>I thought that modern laminar sections were much more tolerant of rain and
bug contamination than they used to be. Hence the term NLF, natural laminar
flow. Doesn't that imply more tlerance to inaccuracy?
Graham<
Gee, I don't know, Graham...
My gliders wings could be upgraded to a "B"model ASW 24 by modifying the
leading edge radius on the outside panels all the way to the winglets. I
have the manufacturers profile data for 5 stations along this tapered wing
panel. After plotting the profile, there is only about a 4 mm amount of
material to be removed from the leading edge. In other words, the radius
is to be increased. I had a machine shop NC mill aluminum templates for
this minor change. People who did the mod told me that you don't even get
into the aramid fiber of the outer skin when removing the (mostly) gelcoat
material from the nose.
However, I am scared stiff to ruin my beautiful wings by screwing up on
this. With all this said, yes I am pretty sure that minute profile flaws
can cost you big time. Those glider guys who had their wings re-gelcoated
because of crazing or cracking report that often the performance of their
ships is worse than before their spending of over $10,000!
Herbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa #152 Web Page Update |
Europa #152 Web Page Update
I've just finished updating my Web site which is following the progress of
Europa #152.
As well as an 'airframe complete' pic in the 'progress so far' section, the
photo page now has two additional photos showing the seat widening mod and
the XS baggage bay mod which have now been incorporated.
The tailplanes and flaps went off to the painters today. I plan to System 3
Primer the fuselage at the weekend.
Follow the 'New' links.
The site can be found at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
or through the Europa Website Homebuilder Web page List.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Parker <silas(at)sirius.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you vote? |
At 12:19 PM 10/29/97, you wrote:
>Not 30 minutes after I mailed a response to Mr. Rogers on the
>specifics of avionics master switches and "aircraft quality parts"
>in general, I've sat down and my desk to review the following
>situation:
>
>I'm evaluating test results on a product that Raytheon is
>purchasing for one of our better customers . . . the US Navy.
>I wrote the specification used to obtain quotations from
>would-be suppliers and ultimately used to write acceptance
>test procedures. I have the results of about a week's worth
>of testing on the desk in front of me.
>
>This product has a microprocessor that controls its
>inner workings. Not unlike the PC upon which I write these
>words, the gizmo comes up ready to go to work when I flip
>the ON switch . . . most of the time. A few of the units
>come up dumb. A reboot by turning the power off and back
>on will sometimes wake 'em up, pressing the front panel
>"RESET" button seems to always wake 'em up.
>
>My specification did not require a front panel reset button
>nor did it prohibit one. The manufacturer's instructions
>do not speak to the use of the reset button . . . but most
>users of computer-based gizmos understand how they are used.
>This piece of equipment is one of a dozen pieces in a test set.
>The older product I'm replacing has NO front panel controls and
>comes to work wide-eyed, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on power-
>up.
>
>My question to all of you is this. I COULD request that our
>customer revise their operator's manual for the test set
>to "push reset button on box "B" 20 seconds after test set
>power up." This wouldn't be a really big deal . . they're
>going to revise the manual for other reasons associated with
>this upgrade program anyway. We're not even talking about
>a cockpit environment here . . . but it is one piece of
>many pieces on the test set. The start up procedure is
>extensive. Failure of the operator to observe the "check
>list" item could cause needless delay in testing a target.
>
>How do you vote?
>
> ( ) Revise the manual and ship the product as is . . .
>
>
> ( xxx ) Insist that the manufacturer conform to REASONABLE
> EXPECTATIONS for performance even though it was
> NOT explicit in my specification?
>
>Results of the poll to be published in a few days. I'll add
>another item to your consideration. I have a deadline approaching
>that could cost us penalties for failure to make scheduled
>delivery. The customer probably wouldn't object to my request
>for changing the operator's manual . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> | |
> | Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
> | Show me where I'm wrong. |
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg A. Schwabauer" <greggs(at)baste.magibox.net> |
| Subject: | How do you vote? |
You didn't specify the presence or lack of a front panel button, but if the
manufacturer includes one then they should document its use. Regardless of
the necessity of the button, if the system doesn't come alive often enough
then it doesn't matter if it has a button or not.
If the system hangs too often then there is s possibility that it may not
fully initialize and boot up into a "half" state.
They should document the button. But evaluate how well the system powers on
independently of the button. If it hangs too often then reject it as a
system, button or not.
GAS
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Nuckolls [SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 6:20 AM
Subject: How do you vote?
Not 30 minutes after I mailed a response to Mr. Rogers on the
specifics of avionics master switches and "aircraft quality parts"
in general, I've sat down and my desk to review the following
situation:
I'm evaluating test results on a product that Raytheon is
purchasing for one of our better customers . . . the US Navy.
I wrote the specification used to obtain quotations from
would-be suppliers and ultimately used to write acceptance
test procedures. I have the results of about a week's worth
of testing on the desk in front of me.
This product has a microprocessor that controls its
inner workings. Not unlike the PC upon which I write these
words, the gizmo comes up ready to go to work when I flip
the ON switch . . . most of the time. A few of the units
come up dumb. A reboot by turning the power off and back
on will sometimes wake 'em up, pressing the front panel
"RESET" button seems to always wake 'em up.
My specification did not require a front panel reset button
nor did it prohibit one. The manufacturer's instructions
do not speak to the use of the reset button . . . but most
users of computer-based gizmos understand how they are used.
This piece of equipment is one of a dozen pieces in a test set.
The older product I'm replacing has NO front panel controls and
comes to work wide-eyed, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on power-
up.
My question to all of you is this. I COULD request that our
customer revise their operator's manual for the test set
to "push reset button on box "B" 20 seconds after test set
power up." This wouldn't be a really big deal . . they're
going to revise the manual for other reasons associated with
this upgrade program anyway. We're not even talking about
a cockpit environment here . . . but it is one piece of
many pieces on the test set. The start up procedure is
extensive. Failure of the operator to observe the "check
list" item could cause needless delay in testing a target.
How do you vote?
( ) Revise the manual and ship the product as is . . .
( ) Insist that the manufacturer conform to REASONABLE
EXPECTATIONS for performance even though it was
NOT explicit in my specification?
Results of the poll to be published in a few days. I'll add
another item to your consideration. I have a deadline approaching
that could cost us penalties for failure to make scheduled
delivery. The customer probably wouldn't object to my request
for changing the operator's manual . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control failure, etc |
> And, the same reference specifies that zinc plated sleeves are required with
> stainless cable while copper sleeves should be used with carbon steel cables.
> Is this important?
I think that this is important for preventing corrosion. I have a book on
construction techniques which goes through the Nicopress process in detail,
I check it and get back to you.
> > In another area, the DAR who will do the final inspection on completion
> > visited recently for an informal in-process inspection. He was generally
> > impressed with the quality of the kit but suggested two changes for safety
> > reasons. First, he said that any bolt subject to rotation in use should not
> > use self-locking nuts
This is a general rule in aircraft construction. It should always be followed,
since self-locking nuts may not if the bolt is under rotation!
> This would then include several on the flap arms would it not. I have seen
> reference to safetying any nuts subject to rotation before. Any comments.
The "castle" nut and a drilled bolt is used for rotating bolts. One of the
notches on the castle nut is lined up with the hole in the bolt and a pin
is slid in and then bent into place.
bra-uchfu(at)NOSPAMpcocd2.intel.com like the artist paints his dreams on
(remove - and NOSPAM) a canvas" - Minor Detail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Nolan <nv_nolan(at)apollo.commnet.edu> |
>I think that this is important for preventing corrosion. I have a book on
>construction techniques which goes through the Nicopress process in detail,
What's the title?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter M. Davis" <pdavis10(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you vote? |
Sorry; I must have missed something. I'm building a Europa and find that
some of the messages on this page are too esoteric for me!
Peter Davis - Europa builder No.154
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Failure(Exhaust/Oil Filter Conflict!) |
Gidday,
This article appeared in our states sports aviation newsletter .The
beginning part you all already know but I have used it as a practice for my
touch typing. ( I wish I had a Dollar $ for every time I have used the
backspace key!)
:
This accident, which happened near the airport in Cornwall, Ontario,
involves the Rotax 912 engine used in many ultralights and advanced
ultralights, and so the information given below may help prevent a similar
occurrence.
During an overshoot at the airport in question, the engine lost oil pressure
and then failed, causing the aircraft to crash. The aircraft suffered
considerable damage but the occupants were not seriouly injured.
An examination of the engine revealed that a stainless steel clamp installed
on the No.2 exhaust pipe had worn a hole through the outboard end of the oil
pressure filter and allowed all of the oil to escape overboard. The spin-on
filter required by a manufacturer's directive was longer than the original
and reduced the clearance between the filter and the exhaust stack. It was
also observed that the exhaust pipe clamp to come into contact with the
filter and create a hole in it.
Further examination of this and other 912 engines in the operator's fleet
determined that several exhaust nuts were loose or torqued below the correct
value of 180 lbs. Some nuts were mussing and the studs, which require a
torque of 70 lbs, had backed out and detached with the nuts.
It was also noted that the operator re used exhaust stud lock nuts. Owners
of aircraft with 912 engines may wish to examine their engines for exhaust
system security and signs of interference with the oil filter.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Builder No236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
> >I think that this is important for preventing corrosion. I have a book on
> >construction techniques which goes through the Nicopress process in detail,
>
> What's the title?
Kitplane Construction
Ron Wanttaja, Ronald J. Wanttaja / Paperback / Published 1996
Ron posts regularly to the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup, and is a
good and informed writer. He has sections on the various construction
techniques (composite, metal, wood) as well as general sections on the
hardware common to all airplanes.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
This is more of interest to NZ flyers but others may be interested in the
following development in NZ Sport Aviation.
Just prior to Christmas, according to reliable sources, the NZ CAA will be
changing the regulations under which Special Category aircraft (Experimental,
Sport & Warbirds) can operate under. This follows representations from
several aircraft associations.
Phase 1
Aircraft under test using certified engines and propellers must remain in
their designated test area for 25 hours and may not fly over populous areas
except for takeoff or landing. For aircraft using non certified engines or
propellers this period is extended to 40 hours.
Phase 2
Aircraft may fly Day and Night VFR and IFR providing the aircraft is
correctly equipped for the type of flight.
and...
Below 100 hours operational time
Aircraft may fly over populous areas providing the overflight is en route.
Above 100 hours operational and following individual aircraft submission to
the CAA proving airworthiness and good maintenance of the aircraft then sport
aircraft may operate with the same freedoms/restrictions as apply to
certified aircraft.
This is a major breakthrough for NZ sport aviation as for the first time it
gives us the same air rights as certified aircraft.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> > >I think that this is important for preventing corrosion. I have a book
on
> > >construction techniques which goes through the Nicopress process in
detail,
> >
> > What's the title?
>
> Kitplane Construction
> Ron Wanttaja, Ronald J. Wanttaja / Paperback / Published 1996
>
This is a superb book end even goes into the steps required to protect metal
with alodine! It is up to date, easy to read and very complete. Definately a
book that should be on everyone's shelf.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> Sorry; I must have missed something. I'm building a Europa and find that
> some of the messages on this page are too esoteric for me!
Welcome to the Internet!
Build, don't read :-)
Alternatively get a mail package with a junk filter! Mine selectively trashes
around 60 messages a day from people or subjects I don't want to hear about.
Bob is a useful guy to have around when you are ready to wire up so the odd
indescretion is forgivable!
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder control failure, etc |
>>This would then include several on the flap arms would it not. I have
seen
reference to safetying any nuts subject to rotation before. Any comments.<<
Aren't the flap bolts tightened down onto distance pieces. They don't
rotate, so they won't cause problems.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:FLYING, exhaust pipe fracture in flight |
>> Those glider guys who had their wings re-gelcoated
because of crazing or cracking report that often the performance of their
ships is worse than before their spending of over $10,000!<<
Some of the guys claiming to be expert at profiling glider wings are maybe
not so ex as they spert they are! As you say it's the leading edge that is
crucial, then it's down to surface waviness. The underside is just as
important as the top, something we tend to forget. Maybe because we don't
see it si much.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: udder control failure, etc |
Brian,
Sorry, I wasn't clear on my question about zinc Nicopress sleeves. I assumed
that there was a corrosion problem when copper sleeves are used with
stainless. My question is whether it is acceptable to use copper sleeves with
the stainless cable for the fittings which are not exposed to the weather,
such as those at the tailwheel crank?
I was in the process of laying out the cables during the DAR's visit. I am
enclosing the cable from the pedal to the pulley in Nylaflow tubing to
minimize abrasion. I intended to install a turnbuckle just aft of the baggage
bulkhead so that the front cable section could be released by leaning through
the "D". After describing my intentions to the DAR, he asked how I intended
to inspect the complete length of the cable. This was clearly impossible
with my initial layout. The new setup is to use an 8 inch length of cable
from the tailwheel crank to the turnbuckle; by removing the clevis pin the
cable can slide forward to the pulley to allow inspecting the front section
of the cable.
It is unclear to me how Europa inspects their cables without turnbuckles -
remove the tailwheel crank and the pushrod containment structure perhaps to
allow sliding the cables forward? Does one remove the complete tailwheel
assembly for lubrication anyway during the yearly inspection?
I assume that the flap bolts you referred to are those at the hinge points.
The DAR also asked about the hinge bolts on the flaps. He indicated that the
technique used in the Europa is acceptable and does not require pinning.
I look forward to hearing what your book says about the Nicopress fittings.
Regards, John A044
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Friedland <twfcaf(at)nas.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa #152 Web Page Update |
Hi Martin.
I have just receive Ao79, an xs, and love your page. You appear to be doing a
beautiful job of both building and helping me with my project. Thanks, Thanks,
Thanks.
Tom Friedland
Martin J.Tuck wrote:
> Europa #152 Web Page Update
>
> I've just finished updating my Web site which is following the progress of
> Europa #152.
>
> As well as an 'airframe complete' pic in the 'progress so far' section, the
> photo page now has two additional photos showing the seat widening mod and
> the XS baggage bay mod which have now been incorporated.
>
> The tailplanes and flaps went off to the painters today. I plan to System 3
> Primer the fuselage at the weekend.
>
> Follow the 'New' links.
>
> The site can be found at:
>
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
>
> or through the Europa Website Homebuilder Web page List.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin Tuck
> #152
> Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re:Rudder control failure, etc |
After describing my intentions to the DAR, he asked how I intended
> to inspect the complete length of the cable. This was clearly impossible
> with my initial layout. The new setup is to use an 8 inch length of cable
> from the tailwheel crank to the turnbuckle; by removing the clevis pin the
> cable can slide forward to the pulley to allow inspecting the front
section
> of the cable.
>
Any chance of cloning your DAR and sending him down to NZ. I wouldn't mind
having someone like him around, he sounds like he really has his head screwed
on.
Please, please, please keep us posted on anything else he comes up with.
Have a good weekend.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John O'Connor" <JOHN.OCONNOR(at)btmaa.bel.alcatel.be> |
| Subject: | Re: Civilisation |
Tony reported:
> Aircraft may fly Day and Night VFR and IFR providing the aircraft is
> correctly equipped for the type of flight.
> and...
...
> Above 100 hours operational and following individual aircraft submission to
> the CAA proving airworthiness and good maintenance of the aircraft then sport
> aircraft may operate with the same freedoms/restrictions as apply to
> certified aircraft.
I'm coming home! :-)
Hmmmm, how much do they pay contrators there now? ;-)
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bart Jan Kelter <bart(at)pinewood.nl> |
> > What's the title?
>
> Kitplane Construction
> Ron Wanttaja, Ronald J. Wanttaja / Paperback / Published 1996
>
What is the ISDN? or the publisher?
Bart Jan
________________________________________________________________________________
Various inputs on this are much appreciated. Firstly apologies for
misquoting the breaking strength as 1080 lb. AC43.13/1A does in fact give
1180, and a correctly formed sleeve should exceed this. In my case, although
Europa copper sleeves are not plated, there was no corrosion problem evident
on the failed sleeve after 50hr flying, and 12 months since assembly. I do
note two things however. 1) plated sleeves are supplied with the new
tail-wheel mod. kit, 2) the short cable run in this kit shows two sleeves at
each end. Why is this, when these are in series with cables carryng a
slightly larger oad and using only one sleeve ?
Finally it is obvious that footwell stops would not cope with overstressing
if due to the "absent toe brakes" syndrome. Most of us with more experience
of conventional breaking systems than the Europa one, suffer from this. The
only way I can think of removing this, (mentioned sometime back) is to couple
the parallel shafts of the two pedals with a pair of gears. Perhaps someone
has another answer ?.
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
> > Kitplane Construction
> > Ron Wanttaja, Ronald J. Wanttaja / Paperback / Published 1996
> What is the ISDN? or the publisher?
Here is the information from Amazon.com:
2nd Edition
Paperback, 432 pages
Published by McGraw-Hill
Publication date: June 1, 1996
ISBN: 0070681619
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Rudder control failure, etc |
> Sorry, I wasn't clear on my question about zinc Nicopress sleeves. I assumed
> that there was a corrosion problem when copper sleeves are used with
> stainless. My question is whether it is acceptable to use copper sleeves with
> the stainless cable for the fittings which are not exposed to the weather,
> such as those at the tailwheel crank?
From my memory of college chemistry:
Corrosion between metals with different electronegativities will occur
if there is any humidity. The more humidity, the faster the corrosion.
So unless you live in a very dry area or are willing to depend on inspections,
it is best to go with the proper sleeve.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Civilisation |
Congratulations
Jerry
Flying Hi - Wish I was
jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----------
> From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> Subject: Civilisation
> Date: 30 October 1997 22:25
>
> This is more of interest to NZ flyers but others may be interested in the
> following development in NZ Sport Aviation.
>
> Just prior to Christmas, according to reliable sources, the NZ CAA will
be
> changing the regulations under which Special Category aircraft
(Experimental,
> Sport & Warbirds) can operate under. This follows representations from
> several aircraft associations.
>
> Phase 1
> Aircraft under test using certified engines and propellers must remain in
> their designated test area for 25 hours and may not fly over populous
areas
> except for takeoff or landing. For aircraft using non certified engines
or
> propellers this period is extended to 40 hours.
>
> Phase 2
> Aircraft may fly Day and Night VFR and IFR providing the aircraft is
> correctly equipped for the type of flight.
> and...
>
> Below 100 hours operational time
> Aircraft may fly over populous areas providing the overflight is en
route.
>
> Above 100 hours operational and following individual aircraft submission
to
> the CAA proving airworthiness and good maintenance of the aircraft then
sport
> aircraft may operate with the same freedoms/restrictions as apply to
> certified aircraft.
>
> This is a major breakthrough for NZ sport aviation as for the first time
it
> gives us the same air rights as certified aircraft.
>
> Tony
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
> Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
> Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
> Auckland New Zealand
>
> Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
> Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
> and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | they voted . . . |
I didn't make it very clear in my request for a poll but I can share with
you now that over 95% of the respondents favor making the product perform
in accordance with the INTUITIVE specification. But I did receive a number
of letters like the following:
> ( ) Insist that the manufacturer conform to REASONABLE
> EXPECTATIONS for performance even though it was
> NOT explicit in my specification?
>
>
>
>I would vote for the above, although reasonableness is in the mind of the
>beholder. Actually, I think you goofed!
>
>With all of your encouragement to us to build work reducing systems (which I
>support 100%), why wouldn't you have included a simple statement like "Must
>be up and running reliably once being switched on" in your specs? If you
>know how to do this, the spec could be made more specific assuring
>compliance.
Okay, but where do you draw the distinction between issues of performance
(the job you want to do) and the intuitively obvious. For example, suppose
the same product was suffering from peeling paint, or perhaps was supplied
with a power cord that only fits European outlets, or any number of other
things. I understand what you're suggesting . . . the military has been
VERY busy attempting to do just that . . . cover EVERY base right down
to paint color shades and outdoor tests for paint weathering.
The problem became one of requirement overload . . . The last military
program
we signed up to came with 100 pounds of paper to COMPLY with. Hmmmm . . .
what's the chances that ALL of that paper was read, understood and reacted
to in a way beneficial to the customer . . . ZERO. We certainly got the
important parts and we enjoy the knowledge of having lots of happy
customers. Deep in our hearts, we know that a lot of that paper work
added no value and if ALL of it had been evaluated and strictly observed,
would have driven us out of the competition.
A number of people missed the point (my fault) for suggesting this
excercise and I twisted a number of list-ops tails with the notion
that I was asking list suscribers to help me solve a professional
problem. I'll suggest now that the exercise was very much to the
point as follows: If the list membership advice to me is so much in
favor of making the vendor comply with an INTUITIVELY derived performance
specification, why not apply it to the way we buy and use avionics -
or any other product? It doesn't matter if you're buying stuff from me,
King Radio, or Dick VanGrunsven. There are reasonable expectations
for supplier and product performance. Even if you choose to LIVE with
the product or service as received you can only help yourself in the
future and the industry in general by bringing deficiencies of all
kinds to the supplier's attention . . . and talking about it here too
in front of everybody. Flaming doesn't work . . . it only raises
defenses and starts wars. Discussing facts-in-evidence with requests
and suggestions for solutions DOES work . . . at least for suppliers
that value your business. I can't speak for Dick, but I knew Ed King.
He would have and I do appreciate feedback.
Thanks to all for taking the time to share your thoughts with me and
thanks also for some patient list-ops. In deference to lots of
equally worthy topics, I'll suggest we do NOT continue this as a thread
on the list. Mail comments to me
and watch for an article on this subject soon. By-the-way, the supplier
in question is very interested in our business too. Further, they agree
with your vote and we're discussing the most expedient solution.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
Europa recently suppied me with plated copper sleeves which are
recomended for stainless steel cables but that does not neccessarily mean
that they are now supplying stainless cable,or does it??? please factory(
like Graham I am mystified by a double clamped cable following a single
clamped one). Methinks the problem with Gemmins cable was that it was not
fully comppressed. The proper diamension for a fully crimped sleeve
acording to instructions that came with the Nicopress clamp that I used is
.265" for 3/32" cable, for !/16"cable .185 " and for 1/8" cable .355" .
Don't think there is any such thing as zinc sleeves and if there are I do
not think I would want them thankyou. Ron S No 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
Europa recently suppied me with plated copper sleeves which are
recomended for stainless steel cables but that does not neccessarily mean
that they are now supplying stainless cable,or does it??? please factory(
like Graham I am mystified by a double clamped cable following a single
clamped one). Methinks the problem with Gemmins cable was that it was not
fully comppressed. The proper diamension for a fully crimped sleeve
acording to instructions that came with the Nicopress clamp that I used is
.265" for 3/32" cable, for !/16"cable .185 " and for 1/8" cable .355" .
Don't think there is any such thing as zinc sleeves and if there are I do
not think I would want them thankyou. Ron S No 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Civilisation |
In message <878318117.2021226.0(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk>, Jerry
writes
>Congratulations
Wish I were were flying hi Jerry - but do you have to quote the
lot????!!!! Hope your batteries are going well by the way!
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
Today we have put the first flights on our G-BXDY. Test pilot was Peter
Kember and we managed to do 2 hours at Lydd Airport. Everything went fine
with no problems at all and suddenly the 23 months of labour came to
fruition and it was just great!!
Dave Watts 229.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
To put a few figures and details on our first flights with G-BXDY.
APS weight 782.7 lbs. CofG at 58.24 (although within limits we will have to
move the battery back to make it more safe for loading, although the new
tailwheel which we have just received will help)
All Ts and Ps well within limits although it was quite a cold day at 1C
EGTs 750C. CHT 130C. Oil temp 110C. Oil pressure 55psi.
Rate of climb 1 up 1100fmp. 2 up and half tank (25stone/350lb) 900fpm.
The airspeed indictor seems to be about 10kts out due mainly to the pitot,
which we have retrofitted into the current manuals position. So at this
stage until we compare to the GPS, no airspeeds, although we can say the
stalls were straight forward with a slight buffet before the stall still
with no stall strips fitted, which we hope to during tomorrows testing.
Peter kept saying that it felt a lot faster and and cleaner than his
aircraft typified by the pattern work when it just did not want to slow
down, having to be throttled back a lot more than he is used to. Similarly
at the flare he felt that it wanted to float on a lot more.
I will try and put out some more figures tomorrow after we have hopefully
put the final 3 hours on the testing program.
Dave Watts 229
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
I forgot to mention that XDY is fitted with a 912 with the standard Warp
Drive prop set at 17 degrees.
Dave Watts 229
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gowing JR <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa #152 Web Page Update |
Martin J.Tuck wrote:
>
> Europa #152 Web Page Update
>
> I've just finished updating my Web site which is following the progress of
> Europa #152.
>
> As well as an 'airframe complete' pic in the 'progress so far' section, the
> photo page now has two additional photos showing the seat widening mod and
> the XS baggage bay mod which have now been incorporated.
>
> The tailplanes and flaps went off to the painters today. I plan to System 3
> Primer the fuselage at the weekend.
>
> Follow the 'New' links.
>
> The site can be found at:
>
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
>
> or through the Europa Website Homebuilder Web page List.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin Tuck
> #152
> Wichita, Kansas
Thank you for going to the trouble of posting them for us all to see!
Best wishes from Oz
Bob Gowing 327
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew" <metrol(at)skynet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Quarter share for sale. |
Roger,
you havn't time for this sort of idleness!!!
Back to the sander immediately!!!
I am looking foward to my trip at the 98 PFA !!!!!!
All the best
Andy
PS I'll help you rig it!
----------
From: Roger Mills <Roger.Mills(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Quarter share for sale.
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 9:04 PM
Richard,
I can't buy your share but have you any details on the 1 person rigging
system please?
Roger Mills
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
We have today flown off the remaining hours of the test schedule on 'XDY
with no problems at all. Near perfect conditions made for some great flying
with Peter Kember again in command.
Once again the ASI seemed about 10kts over even though we tried 2 different
mods on the pitot, so now we're thinking it might be the static.
Some of our figures recorded were:
Cruise at 4950rpm at .3C OAT:
821 degrees C EGT, 120 degrees C CHT, 66 degrees C water and oil temp 109
pressure 57psi.
Strangely enough increasing the rpm at this stage reduces the EGTs quite
dramatically by 50 or more degrees.
Climb at maximum gross weight 750 fpm.
On one flight, running at around 5 gallons below maximum gross weight we did
a timed climb from 500 to 1500 ft at 53 seconds, admittedly with a small
zoom at the start.
Next week we intend fitting the new tailwheel (retaining the current wheel
drive and mounting) and while we have the resin brushes out we will move the
battery back behind the D panel to make the loaded CofG easier with empty
fuel. We will also fit the new plenum chamber.
For those still busily building, keep at it, IT'S WORTH EVERY MINUTE.
Dave Watts 229.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Parker <silas(at)sirius.com> |
delete
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 01/11/97 04:14:03, you write:
<< It has no precise melting point. It starts to go soft around 130 deg C >>
Even before that it is soft enough to form it. I have just immersed a 2"
strip (too painful to tell you where it came from) in boiling water and you
can then without significant force bend it into a 1" radius.
At the other end,of the scale if you touch it into a gas flame it ignites
gently and very slowly burns back at the edges with a yellow flame, forming a
sticky mess with some carbonisation and a quite pleasant smell. Cut to shape
(spelling "hatches closed" ?) it would make a nice safe pyrotechnic for
Nov.5th.- might as well get some use out of it (:-))
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust systems |
In a message dated 01/11/97 04:14:31, you write:
<< you need to observe what the bird is going to do in the next few
milliseconds >>
There are clearly degrees of old fools. I haven't yet been able to get my
reaction time near to the 300 ms. it takes for the bodies chemical based
comminication system to transmit messages from the feet to the brain (if
any). Working on it though. Would have converted to trike long ago were it
not for the interspersed greasers that turn up and send one back for more.
Have you done the tail-wheel conversion yet Graham, and as intended or
"freestyle" ?
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter S. Lert" <peterlert(at)montrose.net> |
Don't do it! That "pleasant smell" you mention is phosgene, a poison
gas used in WW-I and subsequently banned by the Geneva Convention.
I'm serious. Learned about it the hard way after trying to make "free
blown" sailplane canopies. A 2" strip may not hurt you if you're in
open air; a basement full of flaming plexi is something else altogether.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | What I learned about real IFR today . . . |
>So I guess each pilot has to evaluate their own abilities/needs.
>I know it is easy for us to get to reliant on a lot of gadgets to where
>we get rusty with the basics, but my vote is that an RV has more of a
>need for an Auto pilot for IFR than a lot of other airplanes that they
>are typically used in
Years ago, Mooney (the hot-rod of the period) had a standard
offering in their airplanes called "PC" or "positive control".
It was nothing more than a pneumatic wing leveler (Brittian
as I recall) that tied the turn coordinator to the ailerons
via very simple, "juice can" actuators. The whole thing ran
off of vacuum pump (except turn coordinator which was electric).
This system was always on. It could be momentarily diabled by
punching a button on the wheel but if one chose to simply
override it and put the airplane back on course, there were
no smoking motors, squealing clutches or sweating pilots.
I've always had a soft spot in my heart for those actuators.
While bulky, they were light. They had only two moving parts.
With modern materials, they could be built to expect extremely
long service life . . . probably never touched over lifetime
of an airplane. If the volumes were high enough, there's no
reason a modern incarnation of that system should sell for
more than 5-600 dollars.
IMHO the basic wing-leveler is as important as your VOR/ILS
system in any suite of IFR equipment.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust systems |
In message <971102053442_2036481979@mrin47>, Gramin(at)aol.com writes
>for the interspersed greasers that turn up and send one back for more.
Nice when it happens inn'it?
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Arthur <dearthur(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: What I learned about real IFR today . . . |
Saw an article in NASA Tech Briefs (article in R/C Modeler at same time)
which described a wing leveler which used static voltage differences as
plane rolled to bring wings back to level. Kinda cute, simple and easily
applicable to ANY aircraft whether bathtub Heath or C-5A.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >So I guess each pilot has to evaluate their own abilities/needs.
> >I know it is easy for us to get to reliant on a lot of gadgets to where
> >we get rusty with the basics, but my vote is that an RV has more of a
> >need for an Auto pilot for IFR than a lot of other airplanes that they
> >are typically used in
>
> Years ago, Mooney (the hot-rod of the period) had a standard
> offering in their airplanes called "PC" or "positive control".
> It was nothing more than a pneumatic wing leveler (Brittian
> as I recall) that tied the turn coordinator to the ailerons
> via very simple, "juice can" actuators. The whole thing ran
> off of vacuum pump (except turn coordinator which was electric).
>
> This system was always on. It could be momentarily diabled by
> punching a button on the wheel but if one chose to simply
> override it and put the airplane back on course, there were
> no smoking motors, squealing clutches or sweating pilots.
>
> I've always had a soft spot in my heart for those actuators.
> While bulky, they were light. They had only two moving parts.
> With modern materials, they could be built to expect extremely
> long service life . . . probably never touched over lifetime
> of an airplane. If the volumes were high enough, there's no
> reason a modern incarnation of that system should sell for
> more than 5-600 dollars.
>
> IMHO the basic wing-leveler is as important as your VOR/ILS
> system in any suite of IFR equipment.
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> | |
> | Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
> | Show me where I'm wrong. |
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nourrdine Kadoum <Nourdink(at)total.net> |
| Subject: | ay to your message of february 22nd 97 |
I would like to introduce myself. My name is Nourredine Kadoum
Engineering Manager of corrosion departement with COREXCO Inc. We are
located in Quebec Canada. You Can vist our Web Site
"http://www.corexco.com" for more details on our activity. if you need
more technical information please contact me.
Best regards
Nourredine Kadoum M Sc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust systems |
>> Have you done the tail-wheel conversion yet Graham, and as intended or
"freestyle" ?<<
Just about to start. "G style" need you ask?
If like most of mine, your "greasers " are on very smooth grass or tarmac,
I have a feeling we are still landing a bit fast. I did one the other day
on our strip, over the hedge at 53kts slight power on, down on the grass
about 50 and reducing quickly. Stopped in a very short time without being
launched by the other ski jump. We have two, one for each direction. I
should add this was uphill.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
I would appreciate it if you can assist me on a project for the U.S. Forest
Service. They are interested in a recovery system that will recover a rotory
wing aircraft from 100' AGL. Weight is 2000 lbs. can you help?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | venta(at)brain.net.pk |
Europa
Dear Messrs,
REG: SURPLUS/REFURBISHED ITEMS.
We are in the import business of various products from all over the world. And
we are looking for the imports of various surplus/refurbished products from you.
Please send us your complete catalog and FOB prices of all your available
surplus/refurbished products.
Pls. also enlist our co. name/address in your e-mailing list.
Waiting for your immediate & favorable response by fax/e-mail. Thanks.
Yours sincerely,
TAHIR MUNIR KHAN.
Tahir & Company,
(Importers, Exporters, Representatives)
6/32 Ghani Mohallah,
Sunnat Nagar, Lahore-54000.
Pakistan.
Tel: 0092-42-7355854
Fax: 0092-42-7116779
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The tail wheel mod |
In a message dated 02/11/97 06:40:14, you David Watts wrote:
<< Next week we intend fitting the new tailwheel (retaining the current wheel
drive and mounting) >>
There seems to be a lot of momentum building up among completed builders for
doing it this way - but if approved, will Europa oblige and modify the kit
accordingly ??
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
Could emailers making quotes from avnet messages, please attribute them. It
is difficult to find the original message when avnet is the only readable
source. It also appears that the system sometimes scrambles the posting
order, so that replies appear before the original.
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: What I learned about real IFR today . . . |
>>Saw an article in NASA Tech Briefs (article in R/C Modeler at same time)
which described a wing leveler which used static voltage differences as
plane rolled to bring wings back to level. <<
Wasn't this demonstrated over 20 years ago? I saw a British TV program
about it.
I agree about the usefulness of a wing leveller. Low level VFR flying is
sometimes very high workload.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 02/11/97 16:44:31, Peter Lert wrote:
<< Don't do it! That "pleasant smell" you mention is phosgene >>
Wow, thanks ! Not that I really intended to do it again -- it was the only
other convenient temperature around - spose I might have tried boiling
gasoline though ?
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 03/11/97 00:29:13, Graham S wrote:
<< I have a feeling we are still landing a bit fast. >>
Yes, but the slower ones have to be much more accurate in height or the sink
rate increases just when it is difficult to reduce with the slackening
elevators . Think I'll fit that camera on the tail wheel yet - or fly-by-wire
(:-))
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 03/11/97 00:29:13, Graham S wrote:
<< I have a feeling we are still landing a bit fast. >>
Yes, but the slower ones have to be much more accurate in height or the sink
rate increases just when it is difficult to reduce with the slackening
elevators . Think I'll fit that camera on the tail wheel yet - or fly-by-wire
(:-))
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>I would appreciate it if you can assist me on a project for the U.S. Forest
>Service. They are interested in a recovery system that will recover a rotory
>wing aircraft from 100' AGL. Weight is 2000 lbs. can you help?
>
Tall order: BRS (Ballistic recovery systems) could probably provide the
Hardware, but it would have to be sequenced with losing the rotor system...
and I'd be somewhat leary of flying around with a couple of pounds of
explosives wrapped around the mainshaft! I believe that some helicopter
manufacturer in the UK did experiment with such a system for military
helicopters, but for use with ejection seats -but abandoned it for some reason.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
Another job for this week is to move the battery rearwards, from under the
cowling, to behind the baggage bay panel to help with the CofG location.
Again my question is has anyone done this job and received PFA approval for
their method. Obviously it is a lot easier following someone elses already
approved method than it is charging in on your own.
Dave Watts 229.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
Having now test flown 'XDY this weeks job is to fit the new tailwheel, to
tame the ground handling ready for us to learn to fly it.
My question is, has anyone already fitted the new gear, retaining the old
arangement for the drive mechanism and received PFA approval.
As I see it you only need to fit the spring and chop a bit off the bottom of
the rudder to clear. If you take the wheel and yoke of the old tailwheel and
saw the drop lugs off the bit that remains, one only needs to attach a new
cross piece of an appropriate size on which to connect the drive cables to
the new wheel. I suppose the main and probably only question is what size
the cross piece should be although you would probably make it from the
supplied material for the rudder/tailwheel horn.
Dave Watts 229
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Landings, Gemin >> the slower ones have to be much more accurate in height
or the sink
rate increases just when it is difficult to reduce with the slackening
elevators <<
Not really, even if you stall 2 foot in the air it will settle reasonably
softly and won't bounce.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> has anyone already fitted the new gear, retaining the old
arangement for the drive mechanism and received PFA approval.<<
No, but watch this space. {;-)
I have started cutting holes in GK Whip. I don't accept the need for
extraneous ironmongery hanging below the aeroplane. I have discussed my
plan with Francis and expect approval will be achieved sooner if not later.
I think it's going to be easier than we all at first thought.
>>Another job for this week is to move the battery rearwards, from under
the
cowling, to behind the baggage bay panel to help with the CofG location. <<
The Subaru boys have already done this.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MSmith1565(at)aol.com |
To add a little to this subject many of the landing problems I have seen have
involved a flare at 5 or 6 feet. This seems a problem at any speed, to slow
and it drops .to fast and it is very difficult to lose speed and height and
bring about a passable landing. I find my best landings are often achieved
with that touch of power that keeps everything under control.This is most
important in gusty conditions
Mike Smith Europa 39 Group
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aamir Ata Barry <aamir-pk(at)usa.net> |
We are working on a project and need the following pumps :
Pump-1
--------
Flow Rate: 8.5 Cu. M/Hour
Liquid : Alkyd Resin (Viscousity 62-70 Poi at 25 Deg. C)
Temp : Ambient
Construction : Ni-Resist
Suitable For Hazardous Area (Zone 1) Qty : 1 No.
Pump-2
---------
Pump-1
--------
Flow Rate: 8.5 Cu. M/Hour
Liquid : Visous Liquid (Viscousity 1-3 Poi at 25 Deg. C)
Temp : Ambient
Construction : Ni-Resist
Suitable For Hazardous Area (Zone 1) Qty. 1 No.
We request an early reply.
Regards
Aamir A. Barry
Network Marketing
27 Nicholson Road
Lahore-54000
Pakistan
Tel : (042) 636 7222
Fax : (042) 636 8855
email : barry(at)brain.net.pk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Civilisation |
>
> I'm coming home! :-)
>
> Hmmmm, how much do they pay contrators there now? ;-)
>
> John
Not enough!!!
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
We have an AD in NZ (issued many moons ago) that all control cable assemblies
must be tested to 60% of breaking strain prior to installation in an
aircraft. It may be a good standard to adopt elsewhere.
Tony
------------------------
From: Gramin(at)aol.com
Subject: nicopress
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:35:41 +1300
> Various inputs on this are much appreciated. Firstly apologies for
> misquoting the breaking strength as 1080 lb. AC43.13/1A does in fact give
> 1180, and a correctly formed sleeve should exceed this. In my case,
although
> Europa copper sleeves are not plated, there was no corrosion problem
evident
> on the failed sleeve after 50hr flying, and 12 months since assembly. I
do
> note two things however. 1) plated sleeves are supplied with the new
> tail-wheel mod. kit, 2) the short cable run in this kit shows two sleeves
at
> each end. Why is this, when these are in series with cables carryng a
> slightly larger oad and using only one sleeve ?
>
> Finally it is obvious that footwell stops would not cope with overstressing
> if due to the "absent toe brakes" syndrome. Most of us with more experience
> of conventional breaking systems than the Europa one, suffer from this.
The
> only way I can think of removing this, (mentioned sometime back) is to
couple
> the parallel shafts of the two pedals with a pair of gears. Perhaps
someone
> has another answer ?.
>
> Graham C G-EMIN
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <genottes(at)sprintmail.com> |
Aamir Ata Barry wrote:
> We are working on a project and need the following pumps :
>
> Pump-1
> --------
> Flow Rate: 8.5 Cu. M/Hour
> Liquid : Alkyd Resin (Viscousity 62-70 Poi at 25 Deg. C)
> Temp : Ambient
> Construction : Ni-Resist
> Suitable For Hazardous Area (Zone 1) Qty : 1 No.
>
> Pump-2
> ---------
> Pump-1
> --------
> Flow Rate: 8.5 Cu. M/Hour
> Liquid : Visous Liquid (Viscousity 1-3 Poi at 25 Deg. C)
> Temp : Ambient
> Construction : Ni-Resist
> Suitable For Hazardous Area (Zone 1) Qty. 1 No.
I am working on my wife and need the following pumps:
Black leather (preferably Italian)
2" - 3" heel
Able to withstand heavy dancing volume
Send soon, it's cold outside and the doghouse isn't finished!
Steve Genotte
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwatts(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (David Watts) |
| Subject: | Re: New Tailwheel |
>>>Another job for this week is to move the battery rearwards, from under
>the cowling, to behind the baggage bay panel to help with the CofG location.
>The Subaru boys have already done this.
>Graham
I thought they had moved the battery right to the rear bulkhead. I was
thinking more of just behind the baggage bay, next to the flap cross tube.
Dave Watts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> I find my best landings are often achieved with that touch of power that
keeps everything under control.This is most
important in gusty conditions<<
I agree. Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 04/11/97 21:06:28, Tony K wrote:
<< assemblies must be tested to 60% of breaking strain prior to installation
>>
On reading that I went and sat between two walls, back against one and
foot/feet against the bathroom scales vertically on the other. I found I
couldn't exert much more than my own weight on the pseudo rudder pedal,
around 200 lb. However the lever arm provided by the Europa pedal system to
the cable is 2.4 (220/92) so I could reach 480lb in the cable, a little
under half the breaking strength.
(It also means there was something seriously wrong with the my nicopressing)
So the 60 % you quote seems about right for the Europa, unless the young and
fit can exert more than I can. Try it and tell us all.
Now where did I put my 700lb weight ?
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 04/11/97 15:21:30, you write:
<< Not really, even if you stall 2 foot in the air it will settle reasonably
>>
My ground proximity detector goes off at 1.5 meters, so maybe I am reacting
higher than 2ft - would be interesting to covert it into a continuous reading
device and gather some data.
G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | s versus System reliability . . . |
> I guess I have once again "lost the bubble" on one of your threads. Let me
>recap my understanding of what has passed here and you can tell me where I
>reached the wrong conclusion.
>
>1) There was a copy of a message to Avweb posted by someone with
>acknowledged expertise advocating the use of an avionics master to protect
>any/all installed avionics in an aircraft during engine start.
>
The keyword here is "protect" . . . the AMS was birthed 30 years
ago. Avionics have evolved through 4-5 generations of technology
advancements but our way of thinking about them has not.
>2) There was a reply from you stating that the avionics master is an
>anachronism that has no place in a homebuilt using modern avionics and
>electrical system layout/design techniques.
>3) Flurry of responses from listers saying, "yeah but if the switch cost so
>little and could potentially save me thousands of dollars in repairs on my
>avionics, why not use it?"
Because, if it's the ONLY power path to all the radios, then
it's far more likely to be the source of failure for all radios
than to be the guardian angel for any radio.
If one wants an AMS, by all means have one but do good systems
design and ASSUME that all wiring and components are subject to
failure. Any such failure kills all radios. Radios, (and a few
other "essential" items should be supplied via independent power
paths. See <http://www.mosci.com/buildersden/nuckolls_philosophy.html>
or Sport Aviation, Feb 93, p.80 for a more detailed discussion.
>4) Ongoing debate amongst you and various listers stating that manufacturers
>should be forced by the laws of supply and demand economics to provide
>avionics that are impervious to any power supply anomalies.
They already are. The thrust of my words was to suggest that if
you don't believe it, ask 'em. If any manufacturer admits to
some form of fragility in their design beyond gross overvoltage,
ask them why they don't conform to the industry standard testing
regime DO-160. I'm working on an article about DO-160 which I
will publish on our website and elsewhere.
> I guess its #4 above that prompted my post. I was under the impression from
>your postings that there is still avionics gear on the market that is
>subject to problems during engine start.
. . . if there are, I'm unaware of them. I've asked everyone to show me
documentation from any manufacturer that requires pilot intervention
to "protect" their product from ordinary airplane systems operations.
Starting the engine seems pretty ordinary. Further, I'd like to
know about it. I'll write or call them and get the scoop. I did write
to Terra some years ago about a statement in their installation
manuals alluding to an AMS . . . the engineer said, "Oh, we just stuck
that in there because everyone seems to expect it. Sure, we've done
our homework for input power conditioning."
> . . . . . . Your response to my post implies
>that this is not the case. If that is so, then how do you explain the Avweb
>post that started this whole thing? Was that guy just plain wrong?
Not for 1970, but for 1997 I'll have to say, "yes".
> . . . . And what
>was the point of your repeated posts calling for change to be forced on
>avionics manufacturers by the marketplace? I guess I am no less confused
>about what you are trying to say than I have been all along.
The "call to arms" was intended as an inducement to consumers of
expensive, complex equipment to find out for themselves if the ol'
mechanics and pilot's tales are worthy of consideration. If you've
got a concern about it, call the manufacturer. If you don't like
what they tell you, I'd like to hear about it. The Avweb
article was simply a repeat of a 30 year old mantra. Quite frankly,
people who build this stuff don't care much one way or another.
It doesn't HURT their product for you to "mother" it. However, based
on points in the article referenced above, the "mothering" circuitry
has a potential for bringing the whole system down. Further, an
electrical system FMEA shows there are times when you may want to
shut down both normal battery and alternator circuits for best utilization
of a finite quatity of energy in the battery. This ALSO calls for the
second power path to essential goodies.
All technology based products experience quantum jumps in performance and
value happen every few years. Gizmos that run from automotive dc power
systems are included. There's not 2 cents worth of difference between
the dc power system in your airplane and the one on your garden tractor
or car. EVERYBODY in these markets have had access to transient
supressors,
high voltage silicon transistors and high quality capacitors for over 15
years. For a very nominal cost, today's products can thumb their nose
at ANYTHING the dc power system throws at it . . . including overvoltage
to the tune of 20 volts for 1 second . . . plenty of time for an ov system
to react and tame the runaway alternator.
> Please understand that I dont intend this as any type of flame. I have no
>knowledge of avionics whatsoever. The various standards that you have
>referred to in this thread mean nothing to me. I, as do many other listers,
>rely on the expertise of others such as yourself to attempt to make an
>intelligent decision. When expert advice from 2 different sources conflicts,
>what are we supposed to do? I'm simply trying to avoid making a very
>expensive mistake.
I fully understand and no offense taken. I also understand your problem.
As spam-can owners, we have had to take comfort in the reams of regulation
and decades of tradition (I prefer to call it mired in the ruts). Now
you're a one-man airplane factory and you're getting some exposure to
a few of the issues that were once left to unseen gurus. If you're more
comfortable having an AMS, put one in. But the REAL issue here is SYSTEM
reliability which goes far beyond concerns for "spikes" . . . real or
imagined. If I have a mission here, it's to ask people to focus less
on the minutia . . . it's admittedly easier to do and we all used to take
great comfort in spec'ing the bejabbers out of everything bolted to an
airplane. But what good is it to put a $100 mil-spec switch on a landing
light bulb that you KNOW is going to burn out? What we're really
interested
in is comfortable completion of every flight. I work toward that by
assuming
that EVERYTHING is subject to failure and I'll either have (1) a backup
or (2) don't need it. My real heartburn with the classic AMS has nothing
to do with "spikes" . . . it has to do with system reliability in that
it goes against well considered design. There are a number of articles
on our website that speak to these issues.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | scale model Europa almost available |
As many of you will remember I said a while back that I would make a 1:24
scale model Europa and make it available for sale. Well, took longer
than I planed but I am almost there. I have a 1:24 scale Europa fuselage
sitting on top of my monitor and I am really excited with how cute it
looks. It is molded out of fiberglass and painted white.
My plans are to make them available as exclusive limited edition models
only available to purchasers of Europa kits. The base will have a brass
emblem with your name, Europa kit number and limited edition serial
number. The base is molded out of carbon fiber BID with a clear finish
so that the weave of the carbon fiber show.
I am making the first two serial no's 001 and 002 for Ivan. They will be
painted in the colors of G-YURO and G-ELSA. These models will be given
free of charge to Europa Aviation as an expression of thanks for making
such an excellent airplane available to us. Serial no 003 is Tony
Krzyzewski's. Since he is the "launch customer" :-) his will be molded
entirely in carbon fiber so he can have the honor of having the first
carbon fiber Europa ;-).
I am not taking orders yet but when I have completed models available I
will put some pictures on my web page and open the reservation book.
I wasn't going to say anything to the list until I had finished models
but I was so pleased with the first fuselages I had to tell someone.
The mold is for the standard Europa cowling not the XS but will do an XS
after I get the first batch of models complete.
Steve Eberhart
newtech(at)newtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> Now where did I put my 700lb weight ?
I was trying to work out how to test my cables to 700lb as well! I this may
be a case for professional manufacture.
Tony
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | the trike owners |
Could somebody please do some measuring for me on a tricycle equipped
Europa....
Measurements required
Height of tail from ground
Distance from rearmost part of rudder to front of the nose wheel
Distance between main wheels
and...
Does anyone with a trike actually trailer their aircraft or are you all
hangering them?
Many thanks
Tony
.... and that should get the rumour mill working overtime :-)
---------------------------------------------------
Tony Krzyzewski tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
Managing Director Ph 64 9 520 4631
Kaon Technologies Fx 64 9 520 3321
Auckland New Zealand
Networkers visit www.kaon.co.nz
Aviators visit www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
and www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/
----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter M. Davis" <pdavis10(at)compuserve.com> |
Last week's trip to bake bits at Shoreham went well - Roddy Kesterton & I
put various bits in the oven, had breakfast in the terminal building (=A33.50
for a cracking 'airmans breakfast' - best value for money I've come across)
and after checking the oven temps again, left the staff to look after
things until meeting up again at 17.00 hrs to load up our trailers for the
journey home.
It was very reassuring to see the digital readout hovering around the 49/50
degree level and know that it was correct and even throughout the oven. A
great improvement on home built ovens from foam/fibreglass and a fan heater
plugged in at one end.
I've been asked to put the word out that they (Northbrook College) would be
very happy to see other builders down there to bake their bits as the oven
doesn't get used enough. The availability would depend on whether the
students need to use it as this has to come first, but anyone interested
should telephone Mr. Belva (sorry, not sure of his first name) at
Northbrook College on (01273) 234350. Very helpful chap and very
accommodating.
October 08, 1997 - November 05, 1997
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ao