Europa-Archive.digest.vol-bq
December 31, 2000 - January 26, 2001
#417
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robin Lloyd <robin.lloyd(at)mcmail.com> |
Remove from E-mail list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! Raimo.
Happy New Year.
Whilst I'm a MK I builder I find myself surprised to hear that the XS tank
expands since I thought they started supplying tanks with an improved
compound that doesn't expand. However I would just fill it (having blocked
off the holes !) with fuel and let it stand for a while just in case it
expands at all (MK I builders had to make a restraining frame whilst this
went on ). Useful tip for cutting the holes in the tank is it use a
soldering iron to melt the holes into shape, then it removes any likelihood
of swarf and static problems . (Still better flush it out though prior to
installing .)
Also make sure the tank is fitted well HIGH (fuselage right way up) to
ensure the wing spars don't
clash with it .
On the question of cut out marks , yes the fuselage split line was difficult
to see, it may be possible that a piece of paper , here and there, with a
pencil to take a "rubbing " will highlight it better, then join up the
resultant marks . Whatever, do a dummy assembly prior to cutting too much
off.
If you get a light in a suitable position you will find the C/L crosses
although they are very feint.
Hopefully this makes useful help for you. All in my humble opinion of
course !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Kit 337 Europa/Jabiru 3300 Trike/Mono
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of RWM-SYSTEMS
Sent: 31 December 2000 01:16
Subject: fuel tank
Hi on this year,
In the manual they say (page 10-2 issue 2/ XS) "tank will expand over of
period of 3-4 weeks once fuel is introduced and this should take place
before tank is installed into cockpit module".
What is that meaning?
Should I fill the tank with something over mounth before istalling or what?
Also, "trim lines are to be found on the mouldings but are difficult to see"
(page 11-1). Can not see any trim lines, no small crosses on the aircraft
centreline.
Trim lines for windscreen are 12-13 mm, for door 20 mm. How much for the
bottom moulding???
Raimo Toivio
#417
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | g Peel Ply on lay ups (was Ailerons - URGENT) |
Thanks for all the tips on how to prevent warping of the ailerons.
In the end the 5 minute epoxy blobs did hold everything pretty tight.
It ended up with 1.0 degree washout instead of 1.1, I will settle for that !
On the subject of covering the whole layup with peel ply, in Burt Rutan's
book "Moldless Composite Homebuilt Sandwich Aircraft Construction" he
suggests this is a bad idea as it "... adds weight" because "It fills the
weave 100% with epoxy so it should only be used where it will serve its
purpose of bonding or transitioning plies. Do not get carried away and peel
ply any more than necessary."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | address for Martin Tuck |
Does, anyone have a current web address for Martin Tuck? The Europa Club
web site's link is of no help. It points to an invalid site.
Also, I am preparing to do the wing root fairings on the Classic.
Anybody out their who has gone before me have any words of wisdom? I am
not too keen on using the method outlined in the manual since the gap
between the root end of the wing and the side of fuselage varies quite a
bit. Seems like a lot of work trying to cut up foam blocks and then glue
them in place and finally sand them to the desired shape.
Happy New Year to all!
Thanks Erich
A028
Lost Wages, NV
Opps that Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Using Peel Ply on lay ups (was Ailerons - |
URGENT)
>On the subject of covering the whole layup with peel ply, in Burt Rutan's
>book "Moldless Composite Homebuilt Sandwich Aircraft Construction" he
>suggests this is a bad idea as it "... adds weight" because "It fills the
>weave 100% with epoxy so it should only be used where it will serve its
>purpose of bonding or transitioning plies. Do not get carried away and peel
>ply any more than necessary."
This has to be true. Think about it, there's no way the peel ply will go
down between the fibres of the top ply of glass.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Web address for Martin Tuck |
>Also, I am preparing to do the wing root fairings on the Classic.
>Anybody out their who has gone before me have any words of wisdom? I am
>not too keen on using the method outlined in the manual since the gap
>between the root end of the wing and the side of fuselage varies quite a
>bit.
You could buy some pre moulded fillets as for the XS from Europa or my
version for the Classic, I think either would fit but shipping cost for
mine would be expensive.
A better way to make your own is to use modelling clay to make fillets then
lay up 3 plies of BID onto that. Take them off when cured , remove the clay
then glue them back on to the wing.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Web address for Martin Tuck |
Hi Erich,
My Europa website address is:
http://ourworld.cs.com/MJKTuck
Sorry I haven't updated it for a little while but having recently got married
my spare time is now spent helping fix up the house, etc. Still get to fly my
Europa though - have around 60 hours on it now, but it has been pretty cold
here of late and haven't flown it for a few weeks.
Regards
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Folks,
Happy New Year! My Europa has been sitting dormant in a hanger in sub-zero
temperatures for about 3 weeks now. Its supposed to warm up next week. I want
to trickle charge the battery overnight without undoing all the wiring. I
know you are supposed to disconnect a car battery when charging - something
about damaging the alternator - should I do the same for my Europa's battery?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Regards
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:22:25 GMT
From: Majordomo(at)lists.flyer.co.uk
Subject: Majordomo file: list 'europa' file 'europa.0101'
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Battery Charging |
Hi! Martin .
Happy new Year 2001.
Seems like yesterday we were wishing everyone Happy 2000 !
IMHO. I've never specifically disconnected a car battery to charge it !
Mostly have just connected to the correct terminals and left it charging
overnight. Just the same when using a "jump" start battery. (Only needed to
disconnect battery's when welding, to protect the alternator.)
I have an isolator solenoid which disconnects the system on a master switch
so my system is probably different to yours. (Jabiru permanent magnet
alternator , also I have a field oil pressure switch to connect the
regulator to live when the engine runs which if all the system was left on
for a long period would burn out the magnet windings)
I would be surprised if your system was permanently live ? Otherwise the
battery would drop it's
charge over night I think you need to examine your actual system to
establish what is factual.
Hope this gives you a few pointers.
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 31 December 2000 19:42
Subject: Battery Charging
Hi Folks,
Happy New Year! My Europa has been sitting dormant in a hanger in sub-zero
temperatures for about 3 weeks now. Its supposed to warm up next week. I
want
to trickle charge the battery overnight without undoing all the wiring. I
know you are supposed to disconnect a car battery when charging - something
about damaging the alternator - should I do the same for my Europa's
battery?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Regards
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
Good grief!!
Almost two years ago, while preparing to install my fuel tank, Europa
confirmed that the then current production tanks do NOT require any
conditioning prior to installation. I was informed at that time that there
would be a revision to the manual deleting the instructions about doing so.
Manual revisions seem to have a rather low priority.
On my fuselage many of the trim lines were likewise "difficult to see"
mainly because there were none. This was especially true of the cockpit
module. The mating parts of the fuselage top and bottom will overlap by
about 20mm so cut accordingly; note, however, that there is a bit of a
joggle that is not part of the joined surfaces so use that as a reference
from which to measure the 20mm. Perhaps it would be best to cut oversize
and then perform a trial fit of the top to bottom to verify that there is a
20mm bond zone along the entire length of the bond.
In the cockpit module it is more difficult to judge where to cut without the
scribe lines, but only at the footwells is it critical where you cut. The
horizontal cut at the forward end of the cockpit module is the aft end of
the floor (installed later) upon which the ruder pedals are mounted so this
cut must be horizontal, and also at the right height to keep the floor
level. I left it high and trimmed as required when it was time to install
the floor, which is perhaps the preferred way to do this since the location
of the floor determines the location of the horizontal axes of the rudder
pedal shafts. The manual implies that these are not related and fails to
caution about the elevation of the floor being important. I suppose that is
based on the obviously erroneous assumption that there are scribe lines in
the moldings.
If you have a tri-gear you MUST have the crosses to locate the fuselage
centerline and to find FS70 in order to locate the main gear axles. I urge
you to address this with the factory before you proceed if yours is a
tri-gear; for the monowheel I don't know the consequences of missing
crosses.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of RWM-SYSTEMS
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: fuel tank
Hi on this year,
In the manual they say (page 10-2 issue 2/ XS) "tank will expand over of
period of 3-4 weeks once fuel is introduced and this should take place
before tank is installed into cockpit module".
What is that meaning?
Should I fill the tank with something over mounth before istalling or what?
Also, "trim lines are to be found on the mouldings but are difficult to see"
(page 11-1). Can not see any trim lines, no small crosses on the aircraft
centreline.
Trim lines for windscreen are 12-13 mm, for door 20 mm. How much for the
bottom moulding???
Raimo Toivio
#417
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Lowe" <dennisl(at)inovatec.co.uk> |
| Subject: | pa Club Site APPEAL |
Dear All
I am putting the final touches to the Club site before submission to the
committee.
I would be most grateful if anyone who has a home site they would like
linked to the club site would kindly send me the URL. Also details of any
associated sites that they feel would be of interest to Europa builders.
Also welcome would be photographs, videos, anecdotes and statistics of
finished and part finished aircraft for submission to the Gallery section.
Videographs can be in any format and on any medium. (well almost)
Happy New Year to everyone.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory, Mike" <M.J.Gregory(at)cranfield.ac.uk> |
If you wish to find out whether the use of peel ply adds weight in the form
of extra resin to your wet lay up, tried this simple experiment:
Prepare the lay up, ensuring that the glass cloth is fully wetted out, but
using no more resin than usual. Instead of leaving it to dry in air,
immediately cover it with a sheet of peel ply, using a brush or squeegee to
eliminate air and wet out the peel ply as far as possible, but without
adding any extra resin. Allow to cure, then peel off the ply and examine the
surface. You will find that a large proportion of the area has the smooth
surface to be expected from use of peel ply, but it is likely that there
will be a few rough patches where there was insufficient resin. The peel ply
itself will now contain resin which would otherwise have remained as part of
the lay up.
This demonstrates that the peel ply can both remove excess resin and provide
a smoother surface. Adding more resin to ensure that the peel ply is fully
wetted out and no rough patches are left is likely to add less weight than
that of the resin removed, so that a fully smooth surface is possible with
no weight gain using peel ply.
The disadvantages of using a peel ply to cover large surface areas are: the
difficulty (especially for novices) of ensuring that the glass cloth is
fully wetted out and there are no trapped air bubbles; the extra material
cost and effort during lay up; and the possibility of contamination with
some types of peel ply that contain release agents.
Some people have expressed concern that peel ply may draw too much resin out
of the lay up and weaken it. Remember, however, that any resin in excess of
that needed to wet out the glass fibres is excess weight and does not add
strength. High technology processes, such as those using autoclaves under
pressure, seek to maximise the fibre/resin ratio. Problems with hand lay ups
using peel ply are more likely to result from inadequate wetting out before
the peel ply was applied, rather than too much resin being drawn out of the
finished lay up by the peel ply.
Although peel plies are often used to cover areas which will subsequently be
bonded, it is important that the cured surface is properly abraded to ensure
that it is chemically active. The following advice was received from those
professionally involved in composites:
"The peel ply problem is probably not contamination if it is a corona
treated polyester. These rely on the slick glazed surface after corona
discharge treatment to enable them to be removed. However the same slick
surface is cast into the laminate bonding surface. That is why it won't
stick.
"The problem is that many people believe that you need a clean surface for
adhesion. That is true, but it is also not sufficient. The secret to
bonding success is to have a chemically active surface, so that chemical
bonds can be formed between the adhesive and the substrate. (For metals, it
is essential that the chemically active surface is resistant to the
formation of hydrated oxides because this is the most common cause of
disbonding.) Simply removing a peel ply is not sufficient to provide the
chemical activity. The only reason these things appear to work in the short
term is that there is a small amount of fracture of the resin which occurs
at weave cross-overs, and that small fracture surface is chemically active.
"Unfortunately, in service water migrates along the bond interface through
the chemically inactive sites, and this leads to disbonding.
"I suggest you get a copy of Hart-Smith, L.J., Redmond, G, and DAVIS, M.J.,
The Curse of the Nylon Peel Ply, 41st. Int SAMPE Symp. and Exhib., Anaheim
25-28 Mar 1996"
I hope this lump of information doesn't give anyone indigestion after their
New Year revels. Remember that there is a large safety factor in the design
of composite bonds for amateur construction, so that a less than perfect lay
up is still likely to be more than strong enough to keep your aeroplane
together.
Fly safely and have a happy New Year
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
Hello all...
Having only just recently received a new kit, I find I am puzzled by
the various epoxy types. I've continued reading the construction
manual. I am puzzled about the mention of epoxy with regard to the
installation of the rivets on control surfaces. For the rudder, it just
says 'epoxy' and 'flox'. It doesn't specify which epoxy. The same
thing for the trim tabs. Then, in the discussion about attaching the
trim tab rivets to the tail (page 4-6), it specifically mentions the
'rapid epoxy' and 'flox'. Which epoxy is used for attaching the rivets
to the rudder and to the trim tabs? If not the 'rapid epoxy', then why
does it say to use the rapid type when attaching the trim tabs to the
tail? Then, on page 7-7 in the discussion about attaching the hinges to
the ailerons, it just say to follow the same principle as that of the
rudder and anti-servo tabs. It just says attach them to the inside of
each aileron flange with flox and pop-rivets. Again, it does not
specify which epoxy. In fact it doesn't even mention epoxy, it just
says flox. Should one assume that if only the word epoxy or flox is
used, that the use of Aeropoxy is intended? Will the use of Redux, or
Rapid Epoxy always be specified if they are to be used? If I am
supposed to be using Aeropoxy, then my building is 'on hold' because I
have not received it yet.
Have a Happy New Year everyone!
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flying" <paul-d.stewart.fly(at)virginnet.co.uk> |
I'm just about to bond in the rear bulkhead to the lower fuselage
moulding. I've seen in a classic fuselage prior to fitting the rear
bulkhead, builders doing a splash layup from the bulkhead onto the upper
fuselage moulding (fin) with a view to then attaching it to the upper
moulding with redux when the two canoes are joined. Anyone done it on an
XS ? If so any details, particularly about how to get the exact position
of the bulkhead in the upper moulding and how difficult is bonding in
the bulkhead when the upper moulding is on anyway?
Also some one recently said there were some tips about fitting the
torque tube in the archive - anyone any idea roughly when?
Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Armstrong" <peter(at)nexgen.co.nz> |
| Subject: | bulkhead - KAK virus within it. |
Folks
The detailed email contains the Kak virus, have advised the sender.
Regards Peter
**********************************************
Email: peter(at)nexgen.co.nz
Peter Armstrong
NexGen Communications Limited
Auckland
New Zealand
"Tomorrows Communications Today"
**********************************************
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of flying
Subject: rear bulkhead
This file: "Unknown0890.data" was infected with the: "WScript.KakWorm.dr"
virus. The file was quarantined by Norton AntiVirus. Tuesday, January 02,
2001 09:17
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi. This is just a heads-up.
I just received the following notice from a scanner running on my server:
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 12:00:48 -0800 (PST)
The VBS_KAKWORM.A virus has been detected in e-mail traffic addressed
to you.
Walt Hobbs
Santa Monica, CA, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Armstrong" <peter(at)nexgen.co.nz> |
| Subject: | virus advice re previous message |
Re previous message, I who should no better because I am in the industry,
also forwarded it to this group, my apologies. Dammnation, this one is clean
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Puzzled by Epoxy |
Jeff:
Epoxy is Aeropoxy. Flox is is always the Aeropoxy mixed with cotton (at
least in my plane) Redux is for the bonding of structural mechanical parts;
Fuselages, wing lids, etc. The five minute epoxy is typically used for
odds and ends where a quick rapid cure is desired. I believe it is called
out in all instances.It isn't a big deal not in any structural apps. They
do not get into all the details later on in the manual as the assumption is
that you will pick up the routine. You may want to pick up a Rutan book
and do a couple of the small little one day hands on projects detailed
therin. About a year ago in Sport Aviation there were several consecutive
articles by Ron Alexander on the details in using epoxy and fiberglass.
The Europa doesn't have anything really special, it is pretty routine. Read
some other reference material and do some other hands on work in addition
to the Europa chock. The point is to teach your hands the routine with the
material and get a feel on how it works. The Aero Poxy gets drop shipped
from the manufacturer to your door step. It shouldn't hold you up as you
should be spending a good deal of time inventorying your goods and putting
all the hardware and pieces in little drawers and cabinets and shelves with
part numbers marked on the outside so you can concentrate on building and
not looking for parts 2 years later that you thought were put somewhere. I
did every one of my parts except for a small piece of additional sheet.
"I'll just lay this right in the pantry behind where I keep the epoxy so
I'll know where its at". Well after tearing the house apart and ordering a
replacement part I found it about 2 minutes after the new part arrived.
Have fun building
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net>
> Date: 1/1/01 8:48:32 AM
> Subject: Puzzled by Epoxy
>
> Hello all...
>
> Having only just recently received a new kit, I find I am puzzled by
> the various epoxy types. I've continued reading the construction
> manual. I am puzzled about the mention of epoxy with regard to the
> installation of the rivets on control surfaces. For the rudder, it just
> says 'epoxy' and 'flox'. It doesn't specify which epoxy. The same
> thing for the trim tabs. Then, in the discussion about attaching the
> trim tab rivets to the tail (page 4-6), it specifically mentions the
> 'rapid epoxy' and 'flox'. Which epoxy is used for attaching the rivets
> to the rudder and to the trim tabs? If not the 'rapid epoxy', then why
> does it say to use the rapid type when attaching the trim tabs to the
> tail? Then, on page 7-7 in the discussion about attaching the hinges to
> the ailerons, it just say to follow the same principle as that of the
> rudder and anti-servo tabs. It just says attach them to the inside of
> each aileron flange with flox and pop-rivets. Again, it does not
> specify which epoxy. In fact it doesn't even mention epoxy, it just
> says flox. Should one assume that if only the word epoxy or flox is
> used, that the use of Aeropoxy is intended? Will the use of Redux, or
> Rapid Epoxy always be specified if they are to be used? If I am
> supposed to be using Aeropoxy, then my building is 'on hold' because I
> have not received it yet.
>
> Have a Happy New Year everyone!
>
> Jeff
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Puzzled by Epoxy] |
I bought the Composite Practice Kit from Aircraft Spruce. It comes with a
Rutan manual, foam, epoxy, glass and a bunch of stuff to learn and practice
basic layup procedures. It goes into more details than what you would need for
the Europa, but the information is well worth it. Even if you bought the
fast-build kit, I would not attempt to mess with any parts of the Europa until
I have tried atleast a few practice layups.
"Steve Hagar" wrote:
Jeff:
Epoxy is Aeropoxy. Flox is is always the Aeropoxy mixed with cotton (at
least in my plane) Redux is for the bonding of structural mechanical parts;
Fuselages, wing lids, etc. The five minute epoxy is typically used for
odds and ends where a quick rapid cure is desired. I believe it is called
out in all instances.It isn't a big deal not in any structural apps. They
do not get into all the details later on in the manual as the assumption is
that you will pick up the routine. You may want to pick up a Rutan book
and do a couple of the small little one day hands on projects detailed
therin. About a year ago in Sport Aviation there were several consecutive
articles by Ron Alexander on the details in using epoxy and fiberglass.
The Europa doesn't have anything really special, it is pretty routine. Read
some other reference material and do some other hands on work in addition
to the Europa chock. The point is to teach your hands the routine with the
material and get a feel on how it works. The Aero Poxy gets drop shipped
from the manufacturer to your door step. It shouldn't hold you up as you
should be spending a good deal of time inventorying your goods and putting
all the hardware and pieces in little drawers and cabinets and shelves with
part numbers marked on the outside so you can concentrate on building and
not looking for parts 2 years later that you thought were put somewhere. I
did every one of my parts except for a small piece of additional sheet.
"I'll just lay this right in the pantry behind where I keep the epoxy so
I'll know where its at". Well after tearing the house apart and ordering a
replacement part I found it about 2 minutes after the new part arrived.
Have fun building
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net>
> Date: 1/1/01 8:48:32 AM
> Subject: Puzzled by Epoxy
>
> Hello all...
>
> Having only just recently received a new kit, I find I am puzzled by
> the various epoxy types. I've continued reading the construction
> manual. I am puzzled about the mention of epoxy with regard to the
> installation of the rivets on control surfaces. For the rudder, it just
> says 'epoxy' and 'flox'. It doesn't specify which epoxy. The same
> thing for the trim tabs. Then, in the discussion about attaching the
> trim tab rivets to the tail (page 4-6), it specifically mentions the
> 'rapid epoxy' and 'flox'. Which epoxy is used for attaching the rivets
> to the rudder and to the trim tabs? If not the 'rapid epoxy', then why
> does it say to use the rapid type when attaching the trim tabs to the
> tail? Then, on page 7-7 in the discussion about attaching the hinges to
> the ailerons, it just say to follow the same principle as that of the
> rudder and anti-servo tabs. It just says attach them to the inside of
> each aileron flange with flox and pop-rivets. Again, it does not
> specify which epoxy. In fact it doesn't even mention epoxy, it just
> says flox. Should one assume that if only the word epoxy or flox is
> used, that the use of Aeropoxy is intended? Will the use of Redux, or
> Rapid Epoxy always be specified if they are to be used? If I am
> supposed to be using Aeropoxy, then my building is 'on hold' because I
> have not received it yet.
>
> Have a Happy New Year everyone!
>
> Jeff
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave DeFord" <davedeford(at)home.com> |
We have recently run the fuel and oil flow checks required for commissioning
our new 912S, and found a problem with the depression at the oil pump inlet.
The maximum specified value is 4.4 inches at full throttle, but we get about
5 inches at 2500rpm, and 11 inches with the throttle open. We have checked
the oil pickup from the reservoir, and found no restrictions, so all that
remains in the flow path to the pump inlet is the oil cooler and two hoses.
Oil pressure and temperature are both normal at all times, so whatever
restriction may be present is not enough to decrease the flow of oil to the
engine. Has anyone experienced a similar problem with the XS oil cooler?
Any suggestions? If we knew how much flow we should expect for a given
pressure differential between the reservoir and the pump inlet, we might
have a better chance of finding the obstruction.
Dave DeFord, A135
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | Puzzled by Epoxy |
Andrew.
Great idea. Thanks!
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> I bought the Composite Practice Kit from Aircraft Spruce. It comes with a
> Rutan manual, foam, epoxy, glass and a bunch of stuff to learn and practice
> basic layup procedures. It goes into more details than what you would need for
> the Europa, but the information is well worth it. Even if you bought the
> fast-build kit, I would not attempt to mess with any parts of the Europa until
> I have tried atleast a few practice layups.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Battery Charging |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Cliff Shaw"
***************************************************
Martin
Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for Bob;'
Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with a
multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down. That
would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at a
time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line to
the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is much
better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle should
be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It voltage
depends on the battery and the temperature.
I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
experience, not an engineer degree.
Have fun
Cliff Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons - URGENT |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Kenneth S. Whiteley"
***************************************************************
In message <000401c071c1$e493eb60$f4fecbc1@tinypc>, Keith Tallent
writes
>Just finished my first aileron layup everything went well...
>went to weigh them down in the jigs but then had second thoughts on the best
>way to do this!
>I was just going to lay a sheet of plastic over the whole lot and put some
>large books on it but then I panicked about the plastic affecting the layup
>quality...
Don't lay polyethylene sheeting directly onto a lay-up. It will cause
resin to be sucked up through the glass-cloth to take up the volume
contraction of the curing resin, leaving voids underneath the glass.
Ideally don't put anything on top of the lay-up, but if you must, use
peel ply. You can use polyethylene sheeting on top of the peel-ply.
Ken Whiteley (19)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil pump suction |
My 914 manual words it as follows: "At full throttle operation the
depression at pump inlet must be 4,4 p.s.i. below ambient pressure."
Unless you mistyped inches and you did measure PSI, and w/o doing the
math that sounds about right. That translation also sounds like they
mean 4.4 PSI minimum.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Dave DeFord wrote:
>
> We have recently run the fuel and oil flow checks required for commissioning
> our new 912S, and found a problem with the depression at the oil pump inlet.
> The maximum specified value is 4.4 inches at full throttle, but we get about
> 5 inches at 2500rpm, and 11 inches with the throttle open. We have checked
> the oil pickup from the reservoir, and found no restrictions, so all that
> remains in the flow path to the pump inlet is the oil cooler and two hoses.
> Oil pressure and temperature are both normal at all times, so whatever
> restriction may be present is not enough to decrease the flow of oil to the
> engine. Has anyone experienced a similar problem with the XS oil cooler?
> Any suggestions? If we knew how much flow we should expect for a given
> pressure differential between the reservoir and the pump inlet, we might
> have a better chance of finding the obstruction.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Charging |
What you have there is fine. For a few bucks more ($20 at a Target
store here), there's a little "maintainer" that pulses current into
the batt and flashes a LED. Long time between flashes means
approaching full charge, and eventually stops until some discharge
occurs again.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
>
> Martin
>
> Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for Bob;'
> Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
>
> We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with a
> multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down. That
> would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at a
> time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line to
> the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is much
> better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle should
> be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It voltage
> depends on the battery and the temperature.
>
> I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
> experience, not an engineer degree.
>
> Have fun
> Cliff Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Puzzled by Epoxy |
Good explanation except that some of the structural bonding is done with
Araldite 420 (called Redux 420 in the manual) mixed with flox. Flox is
cotton, not a mixture of cotton and epoxy.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: Puzzled by Epoxy
Jeff:
Epoxy is Aeropoxy. Flox is is always the Aeropoxy mixed with cotton (at
least in my plane) Redux is for the bonding of structural mechanical parts;
Fuselages, wing lids, etc. The five minute epoxy is typically used for
odds and ends where a quick rapid cure is desired. I believe it is called
out in all instances.It isn't a big deal not in any structural apps. They
do not get into all the details later on in the manual as the assumption is
that you will pick up the routine. You may want to pick up a Rutan book
and do a couple of the small little one day hands on projects detailed
therin. About a year ago in Sport Aviation there were several consecutive
articles by Ron Alexander on the details in using epoxy and fiberglass.
The Europa doesn't have anything really special, it is pretty routine. Read
some other reference material and do some other hands on work in addition
to the Europa chock. The point is to teach your hands the routine with the
material and get a feel on how it works. The Aero Poxy gets drop shipped
from the manufacturer to your door step. It shouldn't hold you up as you
should be spending a good deal of time inventorying your goods and putting
all the hardware and pieces in little drawers and cabinets and shelves with
part numbers marked on the outside so you can concentrate on building and
not looking for parts 2 years later that you thought were put somewhere. I
did every one of my parts except for a small piece of additional sheet.
"I'll just lay this right in the pantry behind where I keep the epoxy so
I'll know where its at". Well after tearing the house apart and ordering a
replacement part I found it about 2 minutes after the new part arrived.
Have fun building
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net>
> Date: 1/1/01 8:48:32 AM
> Subject: Puzzled by Epoxy
>
> Hello all...
>
> Having only just recently received a new kit, I find I am puzzled by
> the various epoxy types. I've continued reading the construction
> manual. I am puzzled about the mention of epoxy with regard to the
> installation of the rivets on control surfaces. For the rudder, it just
> says 'epoxy' and 'flox'. It doesn't specify which epoxy. The same
> thing for the trim tabs. Then, in the discussion about attaching the
> trim tab rivets to the tail (page 4-6), it specifically mentions the
> 'rapid epoxy' and 'flox'. Which epoxy is used for attaching the rivets
> to the rudder and to the trim tabs? If not the 'rapid epoxy', then why
> does it say to use the rapid type when attaching the trim tabs to the
> tail? Then, on page 7-7 in the discussion about attaching the hinges to
> the ailerons, it just say to follow the same principle as that of the
> rudder and anti-servo tabs. It just says attach them to the inside of
> each aileron flange with flox and pop-rivets. Again, it does not
> specify which epoxy. In fact it doesn't even mention epoxy, it just
> says flox. Should one assume that if only the word epoxy or flox is
> used, that the use of Aeropoxy is intended? Will the use of Redux, or
> Rapid Epoxy always be specified if they are to be used? If I am
> supposed to be using Aeropoxy, then my building is 'on hold' because I
> have not received it yet.
>
> Have a Happy New Year everyone!
>
> Jeff
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Puzzled by Epoxy |
<< Which epoxy is used for attaching the rivets
to the rudder and to the trim tabs? If not the 'rapid epoxy', then why
does it say to use the rapid type when attaching the trim tabs to the
tail? >>
Initially, I too thought the choice of which epoxy to use for flox in bedding
the hinges was arbitrary, so I chose to use Aeropoxy since it gave a longer
working time than the 5 minute epoxy. This turned out to be a mistake -- the
Aeropoxy is relatively thin and as the rivets were installed the flox exuded
pure epoxy which ran into the hinges. To recover, once the epoxy began to set
up I added a drop of oil onto the hinge pin and then worked the affected
hinges back and forth every hour or so for several hours.
The 5 minute epoxy is much thicker so as the flox is compressed it doesn't
exude a liquid which can enter the hinges along the pins and lock them
permanently.
John A044
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WARNING * Oil line Failures |
| From: | "Garry Stout" <gstout(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/02/2001 12:24:50 PM
Miles, how does the stainless steel braid and the teflon resist heat? It's
heat that's the culprit and causing the problems.
Regards,
Garry Stout
N4220S
(813) 878-3929
FAX (813) 878-5651, Internet ID Garrys(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RWM-SYSTEMS" <rwm-systems(at)yritys.tpo.fi> |
Fuselage Builders,
I found the line finally quite easily by highlighting it directly by pencil.
Also the small crosses every 10" by using powerful light.
It is really invisible but it is there. I can feel it also by fingertip.
This very useful tip came from Bob Harrison!
Raimo Toivio
OH-XRT
XS Mono
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Housman <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: RE: fuel tank
> Good grief!!
>
> Almost two years ago, while preparing to install my fuel tank, Europa
> confirmed that the then current production tanks do NOT require any
> conditioning prior to installation. I was informed at that time that there
> would be a revision to the manual deleting the instructions about doing so.
> Manual revisions seem to have a rather low priority.
>
> On my fuselage many of the trim lines were likewise "difficult to see"
> mainly because there were none. This was especially true of the cockpit
> module. The mating parts of the fuselage top and bottom will overlap by
> about 20mm so cut accordingly; note, however, that there is a bit of a
> joggle that is not part of the joined surfaces so use that as a reference
> from which to measure the 20mm. Perhaps it would be best to cut oversize
> and then perform a trial fit of the top to bottom to verify that there is a
> 20mm bond zone along the entire length of the bond.
>
> In the cockpit module it is more difficult to judge where to cut without the
> scribe lines, but only at the footwells is it critical where you cut. The
> horizontal cut at the forward end of the cockpit module is the aft end of
> the floor (installed later) upon which the ruder pedals are mounted so this
> cut must be horizontal, and also at the right height to keep the floor
> level. I left it high and trimmed as required when it was time to install
> the floor, which is perhaps the preferred way to do this since the location
> of the floor determines the location of the horizontal axes of the rudder
> pedal shafts. The manual implies that these are not related and fails to
> caution about the elevation of the floor being important. I suppose that is
> based on the obviously erroneous assumption that there are scribe lines in
> the moldings.
>
> If you have a tri-gear you MUST have the crosses to locate the fuselage
> centerline and to find FS70 in order to locate the main gear axles. I urge
> you to address this with the factory before you proceed if yours is a
> tri-gear; for the monowheel I don't know the consequences of missing
> crosses.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of RWM-SYSTEMS
> Subject: fuel tank
>
> Hi on this year,
>
> In the manual they say (page 10-2 issue 2/ XS) "tank will expand over of
> period of 3-4 weeks once fuel is introduced and this should take place
> before tank is installed into cockpit module".
>
> What is that meaning?
>
> Should I fill the tank with something over mounth before istalling or what?
>
> Also, "trim lines are to be found on the mouldings but are difficult to see"
> (page 11-1). Can not see any trim lines, no small crosses on the aircraft
> centreline.
>
> Trim lines for windscreen are 12-13 mm, for door 20 mm. How much for the
> bottom moulding???
>
> Raimo Toivio
> #417
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RWM-SYSTEMS" <rwm-systems(at)yritys.tpo.fi> |
| Subject: | Battery Charging |
Also, always when charging, remember safety.
There can be explosive vapours from the battery and accidents.
Maybe it is better to assembly the minus-terminal of the charger to the ground
- not direct into battery minus-pole to avoid possible sparking.
When helping with other battery, I connect plus-terminal cable first to the weak
battery then to the strong battery. After that, minus cable to the strong battery
(helper) and finally to the ground (metal part of the engine far away from
the battery).
In this country it is almost everyday task to help somebody with battery in the
winter-time. Also planes on the frozen lakes.
Wishes,
Raimo Toivio
OH-XRT, OH-CVK, OH-BLL
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Charging
> What you have there is fine. For a few bucks more ($20 at a Target
> store here), there's a little "maintainer" that pulses current into
> the batt and flashes a LED. Long time between flashes means
> approaching full charge, and eventually stops until some discharge
> occurs again.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F., A063
>
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for Bob;'
> > Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
> >
> > We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with a
> > multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down. That
> > would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at a
> > time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line to
> > the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is much
> > better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle should
> > be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It voltage
> > depends on the battery and the temperature.
> >
> > I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
> > experience, not an engineer degree.
> >
> > Have fun
> > Cliff Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RWM-SYSTEMS" <rwm-systems(at)yritys.tpo.fi> |
Should I read the manual more carefully?
They say just right "use a pencil to highlight the lines" (page 11-1 XS).
I did not understand what means "highlight" when reading.
No I do. It is concrete order.
Funny Building!
Raimo Toivio
#417
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Also, I am preparing to do the wing root fairings on the Classic.
Anybody out their who has gone before me have any words of wisdom?
Go and buy a set of Graham Singleton's fairings. It cuts the work down to a
couple of afternoons and they fit very nicely.
Do remember that if you make a socket for the fairings on the fuselage side
then leave enough space for the fairings to slide over the edge of the
socket. Pulling 3g without the ability of the fairing to slide out of the
socket results in rather alarming noises when it does pop out over the lip.
My heart has now stopped pounding and some day we'll get around to fixing
the starboard fairing on UBD which now has a section chipped out of it.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fergkyle" <fkyle(at)bigwave.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Mail - rivets |
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cliff <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa Mail - rivets
> This response to my forwarded mail on rivetting was sent to me, and is now
> posted to the List, thanks Ben. It is from
> BCLERX(at)aol.com
>
> **************************************************************
>
> Hi
>
> Offhand, I would say get larger rivets and re-drill to fit the new
rivets.
> Any standard rivet has an "oversize" rivet to match when the original
smaller
> rivet is drilled out for some reason. Each rivet hole is usually drilled
with
> a specific numbered drill and the hole size will need to be within certain
> tolerances. Look in a supply catalog (Aircraft Spruce, etc) and they'll
have
> charts for rivet diameter and hole size. I'm no rivet expert and don't
know
> how oversized your rivet holes are. I'm sure an experienced builder will
> advise on the exchange. But I'd feel better with a larger rivet and
properly
> sized holes. I also replaced all my cheap hardware store pop rivets with
> aircraft quality (Cherrymax) rivets. More expensive, but its my ass in the
> seat on the first flight.
>
> Ben
>
Cheers:
There wasy humerous article on commercial rivetting several
years ago in the Air and Space Museum mag. It was written by an old hand in
the game and his description of the "tap talk" twixt rivetter and bucker was
most entertaining - they, being separated by a long wing, were reduced to
'discussing' the success of each rivet by a series of taps - if I remember -
one tap from the bucker = "another short burst", two taps = "Ok, go to next
rivet", and three taps = "too far gone, drill out and replace with new
rivet".
The sequence of one, one, one, and a hesitant three would drive
the rivetter to round the corner and punching the bucker's lights out.
On occasion, the drilling out of a faulty rivet would require
the next size rivet to 'true' the larger hole. In order to hide the event
from the inspector, the rivetter would keep a secret hoard of oversize
rivets with undersize heads - thus avoiding a bad rep with the inspector. If
I have this corrctly, they were called "Lockheed" rivets at Boeing, "Boeing"
rivets at Douglas and "Douglas" rivets at Lockheed!
No, I don't know where these can be bought..............
Happy Landings, Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Puzzled by Epoxy |
> I chose to use Aeropoxy since it gave a longer
>working time than the 5 minute epoxy. This turned out to be a mistake -- the
>Aeropoxy is relatively thin and as the rivets were installed the flox exuded
>pure epoxy which ran into the hinges.
Annoying, John, to say the least.
The way I always did it was to let the flox cure before pulling the rivets.
I use skin pins, not Clecos, to hold the flanges in place. That way the
hinge will not be distorted if the flange is not straight. If this is done
with the hinges still fixed to the straight edge the hinges remain coaxial.
(if that's the right word) Concentric maybe {?:-)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
>Do remember that if you make a socket for the fairings on the fuselage side
>then leave enough space for the fairings to slide over the edge of the
>socket. Pulling 3g without the ability of the fairing to slide out of the
>socket results in rather alarming noises when it does pop out over the lip.
That's funny, I never had that happen, but maybe I never pulled 3 G. The
fillets are designed to be flexible enough to accommodate the small amount
of movement at the wing root under load. It would be nice if someone could
tell us what deflection to expect per G. I must try and work it out.
I guess I do need to include a sketch of the chamfer on the edges to make
them ride over the edges of the sockets.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! All.
Grahams' fairings are excellent . Just remember though that you must finish
filling the fuselage sides prior to locating them on the wings with the
whole set up assembled with lift pins and spa pins in place, otherwise be
prepared for much pushing to get the spa pins engaged !!!!
Regards and Happy New Year to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Graham Singleton
Sent: 02 January 2001 22:08
Subject: Re: Wing Fairings
>Do remember that if you make a socket for the fairings on the fuselage side
>then leave enough space for the fairings to slide over the edge of the
>socket. Pulling 3g without the ability of the fairing to slide out of the
>socket results in rather alarming noises when it does pop out over the lip.
That's funny, I never had that happen, but maybe I never pulled 3 G. The
fillets are designed to be flexible enough to accommodate the small amount
of movement at the wing root under load. It would be nice if someone could
tell us what deflection to expect per G. I must try and work it out.
I guess I do need to include a sketch of the chamfer on the edges to make
them ride over the edges of the sockets.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
Cowabunga 2001
Finally, the next millenium has arrived.
Imho
3 (cubed)
Surface finish stability can be compromised by too thin of a surface
structure.
A miraculously light, single layup, peel plyed surface can be thin enough to
crumble when flexed.
Alotta paint won't defend much against this.
This is because you cannot then fill the weave behind the "bubble" stretched
across the pockets in the weave.
This, of course, is for layups onto something, foam, where you will not wish
to access the backside of the weave.
If the surface is meaninglessly thin then cracks might develop.
Having the space in the weave to build a microballoon filler base is the
norm.
Using a form for this now is where you could save time.
Theory-
I suspect that perhaps a thin board, wood panelling or 5mm acrylic sheet,
with peelply underneath, to provide a moulding surface, might provide a most
excellent microballon filler layer surface result.
That should provide for the least amount of primer, and the sanding of
primer, and a smooth finish.
My prebuilt elevators, flaps, ailerons and rudder need 'surfacing'.
I'll let yall know how it goes.
Nic-xs145
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Puzzled by Epoxy |
Graham.
Thanks for the response. You didn't mention which epoxy you used however.
There are a couple places in the manual (XS) where it just says epoxy, and another
where it specifically mentions 'rapid' epoxy. Does it matter a lot? Also, it
mentions applying a coat of pure epoxy (without flox) to the hinge first, then
putting on epoxy with the flox. Perhaps there is supposed to be a short period
for the epoxy to cure slightly, before putting on the flox coat. I suppose this
is to assure good adhesion to the hinge. Any comments on this?
Jeff A191
Graham Singleton wrote:
> > I chose to use Aeropoxy since it gave a longer
> >working time than the 5 minute epoxy. This turned out to be a mistake -- the
> >Aeropoxy is relatively thin and as the rivets were installed the flox exuded
> >pure epoxy which ran into the hinges.
>
> Annoying, John, to say the least.
> The way I always did it was to let the flox cure before pulling the rivets.
> I use skin pins, not Clecos, to hold the flanges in place. That way the
> hinge will not be distorted if the flange is not straight. If this is done
> with the hinges still fixed to the straight edge the hinges remain coaxial.
> (if that's the right word) Concentric maybe {?:-)
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
I bonded the fairings to the fuselage side, rather than the wing
root. Results: probably about the same amount of work (unless you buy
the pre-molded), better visual appearance, cleaner fairing adjacent to
the flap (did not add the extension to the flaps), and easier one-man
rigging.
I just don't know yet if there any "in service" down sides to come.
But I can report it is do-able.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resin techniques |
I can't comment on the theory, but microballoons/laminating resin as a
surfacer is obsolete. Use PolyFiber's SuperFil. Besides the micro
being significantly heavier, it's a bear to sand, and the pinholes
endemic to the stuff will drive you nuts when priming.
Been there done that!
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Nic wrote:
> ....
> If the surface is meaninglessly thin then cracks might develop.
> Having the space in the weave to build a microballoon filler base is the
> norm.
> Using a form for this now is where you could save time.
>
> Theory-
> I suspect that perhaps a thin board, wood panelling or 5mm acrylic sheet,
> with peelply underneath, to provide a moulding surface, might provide a most
> excellent microballon filler layer surface result.
> That should provide for the least amount of primer, and the sanding of
> primer, and a smooth finish.
> ....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
Thanx Fred.
Right on.
I'll check it out.
Nic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
Hello,
What kind of construction logs do you guys maintain for the Europa? The FAA
specifically mentions logs, signatures and photographs. I would prefer to keep
a journal on my computer, perhaps even as a website like several others have
done, but I am not sure if the such a log would satisfy the FAA. Does anyone
have experience with this?
CFII
Europa #A178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
I expect an extensive, high resolution graphic image catalog, of way too
many images every session, will suffice.
There are many fine digital cameras/motion recorders to be had.
I'll have witnesses and newspaper headlines in them, just to be sure.
Nic sx145
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Logbook Question |
I've never heard of any instance where FAA denied certification solely
for this reason. FAA says (in AC 20-27D) that the log is to show
"construction has been accomplished in accordance with acceptable
workmanship methods..." Like a visual inspection of the A/C can't. I
believe what they really want is proof you built it, not a hired gun.
It also helps them where there's multiple builders, to show the full
amateur-built trail and who should be given the repairman's
certificate if one is requested.
I use M$ Word and a digital camera. Anything done on computer can be
printed out, signing/dating each page (as AC 20-7D suggests).
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What kind of construction logs do you guys maintain for the Europa? The FAA
> specifically mentions logs, signatures and photographs. I would prefer to keep
> a journal on my computer, perhaps even as a website like several others have
> done, but I am not sure if the such a log would satisfy the FAA. Does anyone
> have experience with this?
>
> CFII
> Europa #A178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Puzzled by Epoxy |
>Skin Pins? What are these? I don't see any in the ACS catalog...
>Shaun Simpkins
They're the English equivalent to Clecos. They have a split threaded hook,
so that the closing tension/gap is adjusted with a thread instead of a
spring loaded hook, and need not be excessive.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garry Stout" <gstout(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/03/2001 08:17:11 AM
I couldn't resist forwarding this along to our Europa team. Apologies if
you've seen it before.
>"Squawks" are problem listings that pilots generally leave for
>maintenance crews to fix before the next flight. Here are some
>squawks submitted by US Air Force pilots and the replies from
>the maintenance crews.
>
>(P)=PROBLEM (S)=SOLUTION
>
>(P) Left inside main tire almost needs replacement
>(S) Almost replaced left inside main tire
>
>(P) Test flight OK, except autoland very rough
>(S) Autoland not installed on this aircraft
>
>(P) #2 Propeller seeping prop fluid
>(S) #2 Propeller seepage normal - #1 #3 and #4 propellers
>lack normal seepage
>
>(P) Something loose in cockpit
>(S) Something tightened in cockpit
>
>(P) Evidence of leak on right main landing gear
>(S) Evidence removed
>
>(P) DME volume unbelievably loud
>(S) Volume set to more believable level
>
>(P) Dead bugs on windshield
>(S) Live bugs on order
>
>(P) Autopilot in altitude hold mode produces a 200 fpm
>descent
>(S) Cannot reproduce problem on ground
>
>(P) IFF inoperative
>(S) IFF always inoperative in OFF mode
>(IFF-Identification Friend or Foe)
>
>(P) Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick
>(S) That's what they're there for
>
>(P) Number three engine missing
>(S) Engine found on right wing after brief search
>
>(P) Aircraft handles funny
>(S) Aircraft warned to straighten up, "fly right" and be
>serious
>
>(P) Target Radar hums
>(S) Reprogrammed Target Radar with the lyrics
>
Regards,
Garry Stout
N4220S
(813) 878-3929
FAX (813) 878-5651, Internet ID Garrys(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | rFil vs. Expancell... |
Several posters have opted for Superfill instead of the factory-supplied
Expancell for final filling. What are the differences between these two
products and what are the advantages to Superfill?
Thinking WAY ahead...
Thanks -
Shaun Simpkins
A207
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
<< Just remember though that you must finish
filling the fuselage sides prior to locating them on the wings with the
whole set up assembled with lift pins and spa pins in place, otherwise be
prepared for much pushing to get the spa pins engaged !!!!
>>
During construction, I fitted the lift pin sockets and wing fairings in place
with the fuselage level, building the fairings per the manual.
Now, in order to insert/remove the pip pins through the rear lift pins on the
trailer a helper must push the wing tip forward slightly -- the fuselage is a
bit nose up on the trailer which seems to cause this.
John N44EU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Lamand" <joseph_lamand(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pa Fast Build Kit |
Dear Europa Builders
I am looking into a Europa XS fast-build kit. The fast-build comes with all
stage 1 glass work completed. The standard Europa XS is on the FAA approved
list, but the fast-build kit is not on the list. The company personnel once
told me that the reason they did not get this on the list is because of the
extra cost involved in having it reinspected by the FAA. Apparently this is
how almost all Europa kits are sold now. They don't think I should have any
trouble proving the 'major portion' rule. I like the fast-build idea, but I
am a little concerned about this. I would like to hear from others who are
building the fast-build kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
>>It would be nice if someone could
>tell us what deflection to expect per G<<
The deflection of the fuselage sides under the loads passed into them by the
forward
wing lift pins is 0.21 degrees per `g`. Don`t know how much the wings flex
though.
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
Have you tried to get the whole aircraft onto a monowheel trailer without
the wings touching or being perilously close to the fairings?
Duncan McFadyean
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Fairings
>I bonded the fairings to the fuselage side, rather than the wing
>root. Results: probably about the same amount of work (unless you buy
>the pre-molded), better visual appearance, cleaner fairing adjacent to
>the flap (did not add the extension to the flaps), and easier one-man
>rigging.
>
>I just don't know yet if there any "in service" down sides to come.
>But I can report it is do-able.
>
>Regards,
>Fred F., A063
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Expancel can, if you have the patience, be applied much lighter than
Superfil. And its loads cheaper and sands easier. Downside is its too soft
and marks easily; pinholes can be cured with Smoothprime or other
primer-filler worked-in with a roller.
Duncan mcFadyean
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Simpkins <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:11 PM
Subject: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
Several posters have opted for Superfill instead of the factory-supplied
Expancell for final filling. What are the differences between these two
products and what are the advantages to Superfill?
Thinking WAY ahead...
Thanks -
Shaun Simpkins
A207
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
Not a problem. Should have mentioned I have the Tri-gear, and do not
contemplate a trailer given affordability of hangar space here.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
> Have you tried to get the whole aircraft onto a monowheel trailer without
> the wings touching or being perilously close to the fairings?
>
> Duncan McFadyean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >I bonded the fairings to the fuselage side, rather than the wing
> >root. Results: probably about the same amount of work (unless you buy
> >the pre-molded), better visual appearance, cleaner fairing adjacent to
> >the flap (did not add the extension to the flaps), and easier one-man
> >rigging.
> >
> >I just don't know yet if there any "in service" down sides to come.
> >But I can report it is do-able.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Logbook Question |
I started my project in the UK under the PFA then moved out here to Wichita
with my job. I visited the local FAA office and asked then what I needed to
give them in terms of paperwork and they asked if I finished it yet. I said
no, and they said basically don't bother us until you have - then we'll
inspect it.
I followed the advice in a little book which tells you how to certify a
homebuilt (in the US) and that said a simple log of what you did - with dates
is sufficient - together with meeting the FAA regs, etc. Also you should
consider asking an EAA tech councilor to inspect parts before closeup
(although this isn't mandatory). A photographic record is also very helpful
to show at final inspection as you can sit down and help answer any questions
they might have. Remember the Europa manual is very high quality compared to
other manufacturers so notes in the manual would be acceptable.
Anyhow, by the time I had finished a new person had started at the local
office and when I went in to say 'OK I'm finished' they were surprised they
had no idea I was building it, wanted to know who my DAR was for inspections
during the build etc - which kind of made me gulp. They also took one look at
my PFA builders log I had been using and said words to the effect 'what the
heck is this?' They made me write all the entries out again in a 'proper FAA
logbook' along with insisting on separate engine logbook and propeller
logbook (which my little book said was not required for homebuilts.
At the end of the day though they led me through the final processes of
inspection out at the hanger and we spent around 2 hours (in 90 deg plus
temps) doing that. She was most interested in the way the rudder cables
seemed 'loose' and rattled around the bottom of the fuselage when no-one was
sitting in it. I had to get in and show how they tautened when you rest your
feet on the pedals.
The only question she had was who was going to do the maintenance on it and I
said I was. No you can't, you're not authorized. But I've built it - I know
every nut/bolt and flox joint. No sorry not after I give you its ticket - not
without a repairmans certificate. But she then explained that I could get one
of those by going back to the FAA office and filling in the paperwork - and
that is basically all there was to it although I was prepared (with the photo
album) to answer questions of me if they really wanted to.
In short, get with your FAA office first and make sure you understand exactly
what they are going to be expecting - because the process seems to differ and
some expectations are more than others - and get it in writing if necessary.
As long as you meet the requirements for placarding etc. as laid out in the
book I mentioned you should be OK.
Its worth it!!!
Regards
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | be switching circuit. |
I am using an Aeroflash signal strobe/nav light assembly out on the
wingtips. This installation uses two power supplies, one for each of the
double flash units. Since I am planning on installing the Rotax and not
putting on an aux alternator I will not be pushing alot of amps. These
lights are pretty hungry. The question I have is this. Has anyone come up
with a switching circuit so that one power supply can be used to
alternately flash each wingtip. I see no reason to have both strobes
flashing simultaneously. With the right timing this should effectively
reduce the strobe amp draw by on half. Is my thinking right on this? Can
I get some help out there on this?
Thanks.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa,Az
-- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe switching circuit. |
Steve,
Was up flying just a few days ago and it was approacing dusk so I had the
strobes (the aeroflash units) and the nav lites on. I also had both GPS's,
radio, cd player, intercom, and all the other stuff - microEncoder,
microMonitor, electric Horizon, electric Turn & Bank, electric fuel guage
and the alternator was keeping up just fine. I haven't had any problems
with the current draw at all - except the landing lites which I use
sparingly.
Bob Jacobsen
A131
From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net>
>Subject: Strobe switching circuit.
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:11:7 -0800
>
>I am using an Aeroflash signal strobe/nav light assembly out on the
>wingtips. This installation uses two power supplies, one for each of the
>double flash units. Since I am planning on installing the Rotax and not
>putting on an aux alternator I will not be pushing alot of amps. These
>lights are pretty hungry. The question I have is this. Has anyone come up
>with a switching circuit so that one power supply can be used to
>alternately flash each wingtip. I see no reason to have both strobes
>flashing simultaneously. With the right timing this should effectively
>reduce the strobe amp draw by on half. Is my thinking right on this? Can
>I get some help out there on this?
>Thanks.
>
>Steve Hagar
>A143
>Mesa,Az
>
>-- Steve Hagar
>--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pa Article in US Aviator |
Hi All,
There is a really nice Europa article by "Zoom Campbell" in the final issue
of US Aviator. It can be found at;
www.av8r.net
Bob Jacobsen
A131
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Moyle <jmoyle(at)epo.org> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
ami mcfadyean wrote:
> Expancel can, if you have the patience, be applied much lighter than
> Superfil. And its loads cheaper and sands easier. Downside is its too soft
> and marks easily; pinholes can be cured with Smoothprime or other
> primer-filler worked-in with a roller.
>
> Duncan mcFadyean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaun Simpkins <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:11 PM
> Subject: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
> Several posters have opted for Superfill instead of the factory-supplied
> Expancell for final filling. What are the differences between these two
> products and what are the advantages to Superfill?
>
> Thinking WAY ahead...
> Thanks -
>
> Shaun Simpkins
> A207
>
Having coverered the flaps, fin and stabilators with expancell (or whatever
it was that the factory supplied in 1997) before switching to superfill (for
the ailerons) my opinion is that the cost of superfill is worth it if you are
interested in saving time. In my experience the superfill sands considerably
easier. There are other advantages such as consistancy of the consistancy of
the mix (couldn't think of a clearer way to put it). What it means in practice
is that each batch of superfill sets to the same hardness as other batches.
Others have mentioned further merits (lightness for one).
Jonathan & Carla (kit 330)
________________________________________________________________________________
Just about to close my wings up. Has anyone fitted tiedown strong points in
the wing?. Building XS Trike or maybe taildragger with speed kit.
Thanks.... Dave Park dvdpar(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
>The deflection of the fuselage sides under the loads passed into them by the
>forward
>wing lift pins is 0.21 degrees per `g`. Don`t know how much the wings flex
>though.
>
>Duncan McFadyean
Thanks for that, Duncan. The wing deflection is probably largely due to the
bending of the spar stubs between the two spar pins. All very complicated
and too many variables.
I will ask Andy next time I have access to his ear.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
Tony Krzyzewski ,
Erich D Trombley , europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
we made a static load test on the assembled plane at 3,8 g and the deflection of
the wing at 3,8g was 45 cm measured at the wing tip.
I have also Graham's moldings and no problems or cracks during the +400 hrs
flown...
Klaus
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> >The deflection of the fuselage sides under the loads passed into them by the
> >forward
> >wing lift pins is 0.21 degrees per `g`. Don`t know how much the wings flex
> >though.
> >
> >Duncan McFadyean
>
> Thanks for that, Duncan. The wing deflection is probably largely due to the
> bending of the spar stubs between the two spar pins. All very complicated
> and too many variables.
> I will ask Andy next time I have access to his ear.
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
You might want to talk to Dennis Vories. He added tiedowns to the
outriggers and the tail spring in a simple and clever way. Monowheel, but
adaptable to a trike. Not sure if any additional reinforcements were
required - these areas are already plenty strong.
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: <DvdPar(at)aol.com>
Subject: TIE DOWNS
> Just about to close my wings up. Has anyone fitted tiedown strong points
in
> the wing?. Building XS Trike or maybe taildragger with speed kit.
>
> Thanks.... Dave Park dvdpar(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
45 CENTImeters????!!!!
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Klaus Dietrich
Subject: Re: Wing Fairings
we made a static load test on the assembled plane at 3,8 g and the
deflection of the wing at 3,8g was 45 cm measured at the wing tip.
I have also Graham's moldings and no problems or cracks during the +400 hrs
flown...
Klaus
Graham Singleton wrote:
>The deflection of the fuselage sides under the loads passed into them by
the
>forward
>wing lift pins is 0.21 degrees per `g`. Don`t know how much the wings flex
>though.
>
>Duncan McFadyean
Thanks for that, Duncan. The wing deflection is probably largely due to the
bending of the spar stubs between the two spar pins. All very complicated
and too many variables.
I will ask Andy next time I have access to his ear.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter J BARWICK <peter.j.barwick(at)hsbc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: : Re: Strobe switching circuit. |
Steve,
I had a look at the Aeroflash web site where it says that the power
supplies provide 450 volts dc to a capacitor which is parallel to and
discharged through the xenon flash tube when it is triggered. This
raises a few issues:-
- you could end up with both tubes in parallel with the one capacitor
leading to odd timing or even neither of the tubes working.
- the power supply will probably be some sort of inverter circuit
which will only draw a small residual current once the capacitor is
charged up, so the current saving will be limited.
- there is a definite time lag between the xenon tube flashing and
the capacitor re-charging for the next flash. There may not be enough
time to get to 450 v before the other tube is triggered.
- you will end up with long cable runs with 450 volts on them (even
when everything is switched off) - cannot be too safe!
- with removable wings, these long cables need to have some plugs and
sockets involved. Again with 450 volts on them, assembly/disassembly
could be hazardous.
All in all, I would suggest that you do not pursue this idea.
Regards,
Peter Barwick
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
I used mostly Expancell (FairLite ?) as supplied by Europa. Micro and
Superfill were also used in relatively minor amounts. I used micro along the
wing spar where there was a narrow but fairly thick layer required, near 1/8
inch in some places. Micro was also used for the filler on the wing walks
with the idea that it would be less prone to denting on inadvertent contact
with shoes. Superfill was used as a spot filler in small areas after most of
the filling was complete, mostly because it was easy to mix in small amounts.
West epoxy was used along with their low temperature hardner to allow
working at low workshop temperatures of 50F or so.
Cabosil (15% by volume) was added to the micro and Expancell fillers to
improve spreading, as suggested long ago by Graham.
Some impressions of the various fillers and their characteristics:
Micro is very hard, more difficult to spread than Expancell, and takes a long
time to sand. Avoid applying more than necessary to minimize any sanding
required.
Expancell is much easier to sand than micro. By varying the amount of filler
vs epoxy the ease of spreading can be adjusted; a very thin layer with a nice
feather edge can be applied smoothly when a slightly wetter batch is mixed.
I used multiple thin layers to get to the required thickness in some areas --
this to reduce the required sanding by avoiding excess buildup.
Superfill was used to finish up some areas, especially around the
windshield, cowl, and fin joint. I found it more difficult to smoothly spread
Superfill than Expancell, probably because of the inability to adjust the mix
as was done with Expancell as well as the low workshop temperatures (around
60-65F by the time Superfill was used). The filler in the Superfill I
received seemed coarser than the fill particles from Europa, sometimes
resulting in fine lines in the surface as the filler was spread.
Overall, I preferred the Expancell filler with West epoxy for its ease of use
and sandability. However, workshop temperatures may have affected the
apparent characteristics.
John N44EU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Return Hose & Stall Warning Device |
Posted on behalf of Nigel Charles, who is again being denied access by the
server !
***********************************************************************
'There is some concern over the ability of the existing rubber oil return
hose (in the Rotax engine installation) to withstand the extremes of
temperature created by the nearby exhaust silencer even when protected with
firesleeve. It has been suggested that Teflon hose might be the answer as
it can withstand temperature up to 200C as opposed to the normal limit of
130C for the usual rubber hose. I have noticed in a specialist spares
catalogue that silicon hoses can withstand temperatures up to 300C. Is
there any reason why this type of hose should not be used instead?'
'I have just bought the ACI Stall Warning device and very good it looks
too. Although it is very easy to mount the sensor onto the Europa wing,
routeing the cable and positioning the sounder looks to be more difficult,
particularly retrospectively on a Classic wing. Please could anyone who has
done this give me details how they went about it.'
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Logbook Question |
Like any gov't agency at field office level, they come in all
varieties of competence and attitude.
Part 91 does require separate airframe/engine/prop logbooks for all
aircraft. I thought the entries therein are minimal, though, but often
missed by builders -- W&B, your own airworthiness inspection as
manufacturer for approving flight test, transponder/encoder
certification, and even ELT test/battery due date if they got fussy.
But they wanted _all_ construction minutia transferred to the ship's
maintenance logs?
They were dead wrong too on any interim inspection by a DAR or
anybody, and a Repairman's Certificate is not required to do
maintenance, just the annual.
I suppose one could study the FAR's and homebuilding Advisory
Circulars several times over, to prepare for these people. But after
30 years with the federal gubment, I've never heard any of the
governed come up with a tactful enough way of correcting your errors.
You still get irked. Only gubment can know its Regs.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
MJKTuck(at)cs.com wrote:
> ...
> I followed the advice in a little book which tells you how to certify a
> homebuilt (in the US) and that said a simple log of what you did - with
> dates is sufficient - together with meeting the FAA regs, etc.
> ...
> [FAA] wanted to know who my DAR was for inspections during the build etc -
> which kind of made me gulp. They also took one look at my PFA builders
> log I had been using and said words to the effect 'what the heck is this?'
> They made me write all the entries out again in a 'proper FAA logbook'
> along with insisting on separate engine logbook and propeller logbook
> (which my little book said was not required for homebuilts.
> ...
> The only question she had was who was going to do the maintenance on it
> and I said I was. No you can't, you're not authorized.... - not
> without a repairmans certificate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
That's funny, I never had that happen, but maybe I never pulled 3 G. The
fillets are designed to be flexible enough to accommodate the small amount
of movement at the wing root under load. It would be nice if someone could
tell us what deflection to expect per G. I must try and work it out.
I should have mentioned that UBD does not use Graham's fairings. Apologies
Graham if anyone construed that from my email. UBD has hand made fairings
and a rather sharp lip on the socket.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
In my experience the superfill sands considerably
>easier.
>Jonathan & Carla (kit 330)
>
Depends how richly you mix the Expancel; if lean and light it sands very
easily, albeit with a high risk of scratching. The other points you raise I
agree with (i.e. consistency, time saving etc)
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairings |
Were the fairings fitted at the time of the load test? And how much did the
root of the wing deflect relative to the fuselage?
Duncan McFadyean
-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Fairings
>we made a static load test on the assembled plane at 3,8 g and the
deflection of
>the wing at 3,8g was 45 cm measured at the wing tip.
>I have also Graham's moldings and no problems or cracks during the +400 hrs
>flown...
>Klaus
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
High guys,
(I'm still on one) Yesterday John Brownlow flew the Wilksch diesel powered
Europa properly for the first time. I was late arriving at the airfield, I
got lost and wasted half an hour driving around the Buckinghamshire
countryside. Muttering. I finally called Mark on his mobile to ask where
they were on the airfield and was the airplane flying. "Look Up" was the
reply, and there it was. Bill Wynne's long awaiting Europa a thousand feet
above my head with it's engine making a lovely smooth growl, slightly
louder than a Rotax but I could still hear the airframe wind noise.
After shutting down John quietly gave us the results of this early test
flight. Good acceleration, short take off run. Rater of climb at least as
good as any 912 Europa with a VP prop. Pressures and temperatures were all
controllable. The oil temperature got a little high on climb out around 100
deg. C at 800 feet but reducing power a little halted the rise.
Cruise at 2,100 rpm, 1600 ft. stabilized at 125 kts. which I thought was
pretty good at the weight on the day. John was pleased with this first
indication of good things to come. Mark, Martin and Phillip, who've worked
so hard for this, were there, as was Dan, their new colleague. They were
all delighted with the behaviour of their engine on these first three
flights. I was just glad to be there, pleased I'd been invited and
delighted that it all went so well.
The Wilksch team is small, dedicated and has a well matched and powerful
blend of skills that should ensure success in this venture. They also all
have two ears and one mouth, and use them in that proportion. So often one
meets brilliant innovators who are oblivious to any wisdom from elsewhere,
the old Not Invented Here syndrome. Not these guys. It won't be easy but I
can't recollect meeting a group of people who work together as well as
these four . A privilege to know them.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
I forgot to mention, this engine is derated to 80HP for the early part of
the program.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
JohnJMoran(at)aol.com wrote:
>....
> I used micro along the
> wing spar where there was a narrow but fairly thick layer required, near 1/8
> inch in some places.
> ....
Exactly what I did. Poly Fiber says SuperFil is good to 1/4", but any
subsequent cracks will pain me deeply. I swiped a not-too-dry micro
layer on that depression at the spar (Mk 1), prior to the Super Fil,
on the theory that the laminating resin is elastically similar to the
underlying laminate. Good to hear others ain't takin' no chances.
Got a reinforcing message there when seeing how much flex there is
those wings.
Totally agree also on your other observations re SuperFil vs.
FairLite.
Regards,
Fred F, A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Logbook Question |
For U.S. builders, the following was just posted to
rec.aviation.homebuilt. It counts as a "sample of one," the logical
fault that besets business managers, according to Prof. Tom Peters, of
fame in the "Excellence" series of management theory texts. But
FWIW.... (and a computer programmer don't understand about nonvolatile
backup?)
Regards,
Fred F., A063
--------
I used to keep mine on the computer along with pictures, text, and
receipts. I could print the entire thing and present it however I
wanted. Then my hard drive tanked. Being a computer programmer, I was
caught totally by surprise, and lost EVERYTHING!!! A quick call to the
FAA FSDO answered the following questions:
1) What should I do?
ANS: Take pictures of where I am at and create an entry stating what I
had done.
2) What do I really need?
ANS: Not daily or even weekly updates, just accomplishments (i.e. I
finished the bulkheads on 6/20/2000). Pictures showing that YOU
accomplished 51% of the building.
Basically, I was also told that during the inspection, there should be
enough discussion so that the inspector will be able to tell that you
built it.
Take that for what it is worth, it was one guy in the FAA office.
Rob
--------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Davis" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Charging |
I always use an inexpensive automatic charger made by Gunsons. Available in
the UK for around 20 from Argos. I use it on all the Gas RC batteries we
sell as well as my own batteries on cars and aircraft. It delivers a high
charge to bring the battery up to charge and then reduces the charge
automatically until it virtually switches off. Far better than a trickle
charge and hardly any more expensive.
Jerry
LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cliff <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Battery Charging
> Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> "Cliff Shaw"
>
> ***************************************************
>
> Martin
>
> Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for
Bob;'
> Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
>
> We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with a
> multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down.
That
> would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at a
> time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line to
> the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is
much
> better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle
should
> be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It voltage
> depends on the battery and the temperature.
>
> I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
> experience, not an engineer degree.
>
> Have fun
> Cliff Shaw
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Cripps" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Charging |
I have also used this same Gunson charger in automatic mode on my aircraft
battery (normal lead acid)and found it to be quick and effective. However,
I have always disconnected the aircraft cables from both the +ve and -ve
terminals of the battery prior to charging. Is this strictly necessary?
One other question concerns auxiliary power sockets for those occasions
where the battery has run down for some reason and you're far from a battery
charger. How do people wire such sockets up to the battery? Is it simply
direct to the terminals? What sort of socket do you use and where do you
mount it? Could such sockets also be used for trickle or fast charging the
battery without having to take the cowls off?
Any thoughts most welcome.
David
GBWJH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: Re: Battery Charging
I always use an inexpensive automatic charger made by Gunsons. Available in
the UK for around 20 from Argos. I use it on all the Gas RC batteries we
sell as well as my own batteries on cars and aircraft. It delivers a high
charge to bring the battery up to charge and then reduces the charge
automatically until it virtually switches off. Far better than a trickle
charge and hardly any more expensive.
Jerry
LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cliff <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Battery Charging
> Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> "Cliff Shaw"
>
> ***************************************************
>
> Martin
>
> Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for
Bob;'
> Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
>
> We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with a
> multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down.
That
> would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at a
> time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line to
> the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is
much
> better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle
should
> be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It voltage
> depends on the battery and the temperature.
>
> I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
> experience, not an engineer degree.
>
> Have fun
> Cliff Shaw
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Naylor" <jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Charging |
I have fitted an auxiliary socket for this purpose. Best to fit it as close
as possible to the battery, and wire it direct to the battery using at least
the same size cable used for the starter motor supply. Our battery is in the
engine compartment, so I mounted the socket on top of the foot well right
next to the battery,. I made a small access door in the upper cowl on the
same lines as the ones used for oil and water checks.
It came in very useful last winter when I had to make some sub zero starts
on an ageing battery.
There are charging plug and sockets available, as used on electric fork lift
trucks, which are rated at 100+ amps, these are ideal to carry the starting
current required for a jump start. Look out for the smaller versions of
these though, some of them are far to big and heavy for the job.
I can't see any reason why the battery should be totally disconnected for
charging, especially as the master switch should effectively cut the
connection to the rest of the electric's.
Jim
> I have also used this same Gunson charger in automatic mode on my aircraft
> battery (normal lead acid)and found it to be quick and effective.
However,
> I have always disconnected the aircraft cables from both the +ve and -ve
> terminals of the battery prior to charging. Is this strictly necessary?
>
> One other question concerns auxiliary power sockets for those occasions
> where the battery has run down for some reason and you're far from a
battery
> charger. How do people wire such sockets up to the battery? Is it simply
> direct to the terminals? What sort of socket do you use and where do you
> mount it? Could such sockets also be used for trickle or fast charging
the
> battery without having to take the cowls off?
>
> Any thoughts most welcome.
>
> David
> GBWJH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Subject: Re: Battery Charging
>
>
> I always use an inexpensive automatic charger made by Gunsons. Available
in
> the UK for around 20 from Argos. I use it on all the Gas RC batteries we
> sell as well as my own batteries on cars and aircraft. It delivers a high
> charge to bring the battery up to charge and then reduces the charge
> automatically until it virtually switches off. Far better than a trickle
> charge and hardly any more expensive.
>
> Jerry
>
> LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
> http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Cliff <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: Battery Charging
>
>
> > Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> > "Cliff Shaw"
> >
> > ***************************************************
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Good you ask about trickle charging. I am now working on a charger for
> Bob;'
> > Europa, Beep Beep, that will do just that.
> >
> > We picked up a 600ma plug in the wall 12 volt charger. I tested it with
a
> > multimeter and it does charge around 1/2 amp when the battery is down.
> That
> > would be OK for a overnight "kick" but too much to leave on for weeks at
a
> > time. I am installing a 30 ohm resister in series with the charge line
to
> > the battery to reduce the charge rate to 50 or 60 ma. I think this is
> much
> > better for long term use. The voltage on the battery with the trickle
> should
> > be not more than 14.2 volts. I will be happier with 13.8 volts. It
voltage
> > depends on the battery and the temperature.
> >
> > I hope this helps. Use this info with your desecration, it comes from my
> > experience, not an engineer degree.
> >
> > Have fun
> > Cliff Shaw
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Raimo,
In this case, 'highlight' means to make more visible. If you rub a pencil tip
over the trim lines the pencil lead will make the trim line more obvious to see;
a bit like brass rubbing (if that doesn't add to your confusion!).
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Manager
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> "RWM-SYSTEMS" 02/01/01 20:11:00 >>>
Should I read the manual more carefully?
They say just right "use a pencil to highlight the lines" (page 11-1 XS).
I did not understand what means "highlight" when reading.
No I do. It is concrete order.
Funny Building!
Raimo Toivio
#417
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | stance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Shaun Simpkins"
***********************************************************
All:
On the starboard side of the rearmost section of the central tunnel of
my XS cockpit module is a circular reinforcement about 5" in diameter.
This area is not mentioned in the builder's manual. It is placed facing
the fuel valve hard point in such a way as to suggest that it is where
an access panel for the valve is to be placed. But it would seem that
the flap drive rod would run right across the opening.
Can anyone tell me what this area is for?
Thanks -
Shaun Simpkins
A207
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Moyle <jmoyle(at)epo.org> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
JohnJMoran(at)aol.com wrote:
> Superfill was used to finish up some areas, especially around the
> windshield, cowl, and fin joint. I found it more difficult to smoothly spread
> Superfill than Expancell, probably because of the inability to adjust the mix
> as was done with Expancell as well as the low workshop temperatures (around
> 60-65F by the time Superfill was used). The filler in the Superfill I
> received seemed coarser than the fill particles from Europa, sometimes
> resulting in fine lines in the surface as the filler was spread.
>
> Overall, I preferred the Expancell filler with West epoxy for its ease of use
> and sandability. However, workshop temperatures may have affected the
> apparent characteristics.
>
> John N44EU
I agree with John that the temperature required for Superfill is a downside. On
the container both the working and cure time are stated at 77F.
Jonathan & Carla (kit 330)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Now that several opinions are in, perhaps I can summarize what's been said
since I started the thread.
1. Superfil has better consistency than Expancel + Epoxy, but this is user
dependent.
2. Superfil mix ratio can't be changed.
3. Superfil must be applied and cured at fairly high temps (77F)
4. Superfil sands easily, but not necessarily any easier than Expancel
5. Superfil is harder and therefore more resistant to denting than Expancel,
but is somewhat
rougher and may not offer as smooth a fill
6. Superfil is lighter than Expancel+Epoxy
7. Superfil may save some time
8. Superfil is not good for thick buildups beyond 1/8"
So from this, there isn't a clear win for either option. The issue of
lightness and durability seems
most germaine, so let me follow these opinions.
1. Just how much filler are we talking about on a typical XS? 1 Gallon?
2. How much lighter is Superfil than Expancel+Epoxy? Poly-Fiber quotes
Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
3. How much lighter in total? A few ounces? Several pounds?
4. Expancel is heat-expanded gas-filled plastic spheres. We get the
expanded stuff. Does Expancel
suffer further expansion under post cure/use? Does Superfil?
Thanks -
Shaun Simpkins
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Moyle" <jmoyle(at)epo.org>
Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
>
> JohnJMoran(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Superfill was used to finish up some areas, especially around the
> > windshield, cowl, and fin joint. I found it more difficult to smoothly
spread
> > Superfill than Expancell, probably because of the inability to adjust
the mix
> > as was done with Expancell as well as the low workshop temperatures
(around
> > 60-65F by the time Superfill was used). The filler in the Superfill I
> > received seemed coarser than the fill particles from Europa, sometimes
> > resulting in fine lines in the surface as the filler was spread.
> >
> > Overall, I preferred the Expancell filler with West epoxy for its ease
of use
> > and sandability. However, workshop temperatures may have affected the
> > apparent characteristics.
> >
> > John N44EU
>
> I agree with John that the temperature required for Superfill is a
downside. On
> the container both the working and cure time are stated at 77F.
>
> Jonathan & Carla (kit 330)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
For my two cents guys,
The only way you can get expancel to sand "way easier" is to mix it resin
rich which in turn spreads easy, sands easy, is more dent resistant, and is
much heavier than Superfill. Cure times are based mainly on the epoxy and
not the additives we add to it. Most epoxies will not cure below 65 degrees
F. A little heat applied with a hair dryer will assist in spreadability
greatly with either product. You can do thicker lay-ups with Superfill but
you need to put a layer of glass every 1/8 in. for reinforcement. Not a bad
idea with ANY filler actually. With that all said, both products work well,
although my experience has been for second or third applications, Superfill
leaves a better "edge".What I mean is it doesn't try to soak into the first
layer of filler leaving you with a hard edge around the application. I still
do all of my primary filling with expancel and top it with Superfill.
Nuff said.
Jim Thursby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
> Now that several opinions are in, perhaps I can summarize what's been said
> since I started the thread.
>
> 1. Superfil has better consistency than Expancel + Epoxy, but this is user
> dependent.
> 2. Superfil mix ratio can't be changed.
> 3. Superfil must be applied and cured at fairly high temps (77F)
> 4. Superfil sands easily, but not necessarily any easier than Expancel
> 5. Superfil is harder and therefore more resistant to denting than
Expancel,
> but is somewhat
> rougher and may not offer as smooth a fill
> 6. Superfil is lighter than Expancel+Epoxy
> 7. Superfil may save some time
> 8. Superfil is not good for thick buildups beyond 1/8"
>
> So from this, there isn't a clear win for either option. The issue of
> lightness and durability seems
> most germaine, so let me follow these opinions.
>
> 1. Just how much filler are we talking about on a typical XS? 1 Gallon?
> 2. How much lighter is Superfil than Expancel+Epoxy? Poly-Fiber quotes
> Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
> 3. How much lighter in total? A few ounces? Several pounds?
> 4. Expancel is heat-expanded gas-filled plastic spheres. We get the
> expanded stuff. Does Expancel
> suffer further expansion under post cure/use? Does Superfil?
>
> Thanks -
> Shaun Simpkins
> A207
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Moyle" <jmoyle(at)epo.org>
> Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
>
> >
> >
> > JohnJMoran(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Superfill was used to finish up some areas, especially around the
> > > windshield, cowl, and fin joint. I found it more difficult to smoothly
> spread
> > > Superfill than Expancell, probably because of the inability to adjust
> the mix
> > > as was done with Expancell as well as the low workshop temperatures
> (around
> > > 60-65F by the time Superfill was used). The filler in the Superfill I
> > > received seemed coarser than the fill particles from Europa, sometimes
> > > resulting in fine lines in the surface as the filler was spread.
> > >
> > > Overall, I preferred the Expancell filler with West epoxy for its ease
> of use
> > > and sandability. However, workshop temperatures may have affected the
> > > apparent characteristics.
> > >
> > > John N44EU
> >
> > I agree with John that the temperature required for Superfill is a
> downside. On
> > the container both the working and cure time are stated at 77F.
> >
> > Jonathan & Carla (kit 330)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jronjones" <jronjones(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
Hi John
As a result of speaking to Neville at the factory some months ago, I fitted
an inspection panel in my XS tunnel - exactly where you describe. Neville
said at the time that they were to start including one in later cockpit
modules. Mine is No. 359, btw.
You are quite correct - the flap push/pull rod does cross this area but
one can still get at the hoses.
Regards,
Ron Jones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
For computer data storage, u can't beat a CD Writer.
Except maybe with a CD ReWriter.
Get a cheap CD burner and copy it all anyways.
Make a stack of them.
It's easy.
It's cheap.
Give 'em to your friends and family.
Then you won't have to sweat it later.
Nic xs145 :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Poly-Fiber quotes
>Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
>Shaun Simpkins
>A207
Thats incredibly heavy.
For comparison, water is 10lbs/gallon (imp) or Blue foam 0.32lbs/gal (more
than ten times lighter than Superfil!).
Expancel can be mixed at 1.16lbs/gal but is fun to apply at this density
(the recipe for which is 17ml epoxy + 15ml fume silica + 17ml Q-cel + 120ml
Expancel. All volumes are bulked/loose. High-shear mixing needed (strong
wrists) until putty-like and the placed filler "sealed down" with a hot
spatula before it sets).
Primer-fillers are typically 20 to 25 lbs/gal (dry film density).
The moral is that the foam cores need to be perfect to avoid having to fill
any more than necessary and the use of primer-filler should be minimised.
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "shaun simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
The original poster of this question may have been me. Thanks.
Since then, Paul Stewart sent me some pictures of an Andair installation he
and Graham have been working on that
places the selector valve on the raised foot of the tunnel on the pilot's
side.
After sitting in my cockpit module and making the obligatory airplane noises
while studying the problem,
I think this may be - ergonomically - the optimum location for the valve,
esp. if you are using the Andair valve.
The factory position encourages you to use your left (flying) hand in a
reach-across action to actuate the valve,
whereas the tunnel foot position requires you to use your right (nonflying)
hand in a simpler motion.
The Andair valve also requires that you raise a lock knob to turn the
selector, which is far easier to
do when it's flat on the floor. And it's easier to read as well.
Disadvantages: you have to drill another access hole in the floor behind
the wheel wheel to access the connectors.
I believe that makes 4 holes - two for the outlets, one for the gascolator,
one for the selector?
Bob Jacobsen may have another opinion on this...Bob?
Shaun Simpkins
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "jronjones" <jronjones(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement...
> Hi John
>
> As a result of speaking to Neville at the factory some months ago, I
fitted
> an inspection panel in my XS tunnel - exactly where you describe.
Neville
> said at the time that they were to start including one in later cockpit
> modules. Mine is No. 359, btw.
> You are quite correct - the flap push/pull rod does cross this area but
> one can still get at the hoses.
>
> Regards,
> Ron Jones.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | R.H.Mole(at)open.ac.uk |
| Subject: | SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Would someone verify my calculations that Superfill is like plastic wood, in
the sense that it weighs about 28 lbs/ft3, the same as Spruce?
Its advertised as 3.68 lbs/US gallon. So if my density conversion is
correct, then anyone putting 1/8'th of an inch above the spar is adding the
equivalent of a 1/8'th inch wooden spar cap - as far as weight is concerned
- without any structural benefit whatsoever. Another cut on this is to say
that it weighs about 0.8 lbs/yd sq when 1mm thick.
Richard Mole
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaun Simpkins [SMTP:shauns(at)hevanet.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:13 PM
> To: Jonathan Moyle; Europa club
> Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
> Now that several opinions are in, perhaps I can summarize what's been said
> since I started the thread.
>
> 1. Superfil has better consistency than Expancel + Epoxy, but this is user
> dependent.
> 2. Superfil mix ratio can't be changed.
> 3. Superfil must be applied and cured at fairly high temps (77F)
> 4. Superfil sands easily, but not necessarily any easier than Expancel
> 5. Superfil is harder and therefore more resistant to denting than
> Expancel,
> but is somewhat
> rougher and may not offer as smooth a fill
> 6. Superfil is lighter than Expancel+Epoxy
> 7. Superfil may save some time
> 8. Superfil is not good for thick buildups beyond 1/8"
>
> So from this, there isn't a clear win for either option. The issue of
> lightness and durability seems
> most germaine, so let me follow these opinions.
>
> 1. Just how much filler are we talking about on a typical XS? 1 Gallon?
> 2. How much lighter is Superfil than Expancel+Epoxy? Poly-Fiber quotes
> Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
> 3. How much lighter in total? A few ounces? Several pounds?
> 4. Expancel is heat-expanded gas-filled plastic spheres. We get the
> expanded stuff. Does Expancel
> suffer further expansion under post cure/use? Does Superfil?
>
> Thanks -
> Shaun Simpkins
> A207
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami mcfadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Apologies. There`s a misprint in my posting below; measured density of
Expancel was 3.16 lbs/gal (or 2.65lbs/US gal for comparison with Superfil).
Duncan McFadyean
-----Original Message-----
From: ami mcfadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Europa club
Date: Friday, January 05, 2001 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
> Poly-Fiber quotes
>>Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
>
>>Shaun Simpkins
>>A207
>
>
>Thats incredibly heavy.
> For comparison, water is 10lbs/gallon (imp) or Blue foam 0.32lbs/gal
(more
>than ten times lighter than Superfil!).
>Expancel can be mixed at 1.16lbs/gal but is fun to apply at this density
>(the recipe for which is 17ml epoxy + 15ml fume silica + 17ml Q-cel + 120ml
>Expancel. All volumes are bulked/loose. High-shear mixing needed (strong
>wrists) until putty-like and the placed filler "sealed down" with a hot
>spatula before it sets).
>
>Primer-fillers are typically 20 to 25 lbs/gal (dry film density).
>
>The moral is that the foam cores need to be perfect to avoid having to fill
>any more than necessary and the use of primer-filler should be minimised.
>
>Duncan McFadyean
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
You can do thicker lay-ups with Superfill but
you need to put a layer of glass every 1/8 in. for reinforcement. Not a bad
idea with ANY filler actually.
I am using deck cloth from A/S for this purpose. Wherever I have a thick
layer of Superfil I lay on a layer of this cloth. It only weight 1 1/4 oz
per yard.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
In re: density calculation
At 7.481 gal/cu ft your conversion is correct, although, out of ignorance I
can't comment on the plastic wood comparison. One of my reference texts
shows white fir at 28.1 lb/cu ft, white pine at 34 lb/cu ft, and several
others (hardwoods, not conifers) at higher density. Spruce is not listed
but you are probably correct (and if not it's close enough).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of R.H.Mole(at)open.ac.uk
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 1:27 PM
Subject: RE: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
Would someone verify my calculations that Superfill is like plastic wood, in
the sense that it weighs about 28 lbs/ft3, the same as Spruce?
Its advertised as 3.68 lbs/US gallon. So if my density conversion is
correct, then anyone putting 1/8'th of an inch above the spar is adding the
equivalent of a 1/8'th inch wooden spar cap - as far as weight is concerned
- without any structural benefit whatsoever. Another cut on this is to say
that it weighs about 0.8 lbs/yd sq when 1mm thick.
Richard Mole
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaun Simpkins [SMTP:shauns(at)hevanet.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:13 PM
> To: Jonathan Moyle; Europa club
> Subject: Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell...
>
> Now that several opinions are in, perhaps I can summarize what's been said
> since I started the thread.
>
> 1. Superfil has better consistency than Expancel + Epoxy, but this is user
> dependent.
> 2. Superfil mix ratio can't be changed.
> 3. Superfil must be applied and cured at fairly high temps (77F)
> 4. Superfil sands easily, but not necessarily any easier than Expancel
> 5. Superfil is harder and therefore more resistant to denting than
> Expancel,
> but is somewhat
> rougher and may not offer as smooth a fill
> 6. Superfil is lighter than Expancel+Epoxy
> 7. Superfil may save some time
> 8. Superfil is not good for thick buildups beyond 1/8"
>
> So from this, there isn't a clear win for either option. The issue of
> lightness and durability seems
> most germaine, so let me follow these opinions.
>
> 1. Just how much filler are we talking about on a typical XS? 1 Gallon?
> 2. How much lighter is Superfil than Expancel+Epoxy? Poly-Fiber quotes
> Superfil at 3.7lbs/gal.
> 3. How much lighter in total? A few ounces? Several pounds?
> 4. Expancel is heat-expanded gas-filled plastic spheres. We get the
> expanded stuff. Does Expancel
> suffer further expansion under post cure/use? Does Superfil?
>
> Thanks -
> Shaun Simpkins
> A207
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SuperFil vs. Expancell... |
Calculations seem good, but the situation on the Mk 1 spar is more
accurately described as thick cloth overlaps that have to faired out,
plus the fact that the foam cores are just a bit narrower than the
spar. On mine, the depression generally was about 1/16", but tapered
quickly moving fore/aft.
The amount of filler used is most dependent upon the visual result
desired, followed by techniques used to minimize sanding. The above
mess at the spar will take much more filler if one desires the
preserve the curvature of the airfoil at the spar area to the extent
that the gloss coat shows no distortion (requires a dial indicator
tool to achieve). Or you can just get it smooth to the swipe of the
hand. A 24" sanding spline will take more filler than a 12", but the
better result might be desired. Go really wild and use a 48" metal
straightedge to check you work, preselect a spot for the fly-in
trophy, but order up more filler.
On my wings and flying surfaces, the glass fibers are just about
visible through the SuperFil on about 40% of the surface area, so the
average thickness is likely less than than 1 mm (ignoring the spar
problem). This implies also that you have to be careful about trying
to sand off too much, because sand through glass fiber and the
structure has unknown integrity.
Something has to be used, and it appears nothing is lighter than
SuperFil, except as pointed out here, other formulations that are
about as dry as practically possible. But too dry and you run the
risk that there's insufficient epoxy for a good bond a few years down
the road. Or maybe not, who knows. You might also value ease of use,
as especially on the Mark 1, the job is no stroll in the park. Just
like Bondo on an auto repair, its the many finishing passes that take
the time and energy.
XS builders have a break in that should 1 gal. be enough, subtract
what winds up in the ShopVac, and relative weight comparison of any
lightweight filler comes down to a few ounces.
Just opinions mindya, but no longer a virgin in this area.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Richard Mole wrote:
>
> Would someone verify my calculations that Superfill is like plastic wood, in
> the sense that it weighs about 28 lbs/ft3, the same as Spruce?
>
> Its advertised as 3.68 lbs/US gallon. So if my density conversion is
> correct, then anyone putting 1/8'th of an inch above the spar is adding the
> equivalent of a 1/8'th inch wooden spar cap - as far as weight is concerned
> - without any structural benefit whatsoever. Another cut on this is to say
> that it weighs about 0.8 lbs/yd sq when 1mm thick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Some Measurements |
Hi All,
Need some help. I want to bring in my fresh air behind the panel in a near
straight shot to the eyeball vents. Can someone with the classic MK-1 912S
engine installation take a look tell me how much room between the engine or
carbs and the firewall. I am interested in the area that is 12 inches from
each outside edge of the fuselage directly on top of the footwell shelf. I am
thinking about putting a flange or maybe an RV style heater box on each side
right in this area and I'm not ready to install the engine yet. Maybe there's
someone out there that has their cowlings off right now.
Would it be sound design to think about feeding in fresh air to the cabin
from a common chin placed NACA scoop that might feed cool air to a carb box,
or would a carb cool air box inlet have to be on top of the cowl like the XS?
I'm actually working on my panel with the eyeball vent supply ducts but it's
funny how so many things "hinge" on each other.
Thanks.
Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Sheridan" <rogersheridan(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Sight Gauge Tubing |
I had been planning to use polyurethane tubing for this, but the sample
piece I just removed from my fuel can is badly discoloured and slightly
expanded after 2 months exposure to auto fuel - not ideal.
Has anybody identified a material that does not degrade in this way?
Thanks for any feedback.
Rog Sheridan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing |
Hi! Roger.
I read something about this recently ..... the original tubing Europa
supplied has been superceded by a different specification tubing . The new
specification happens to be slightly smaller in diameter and must replace
all the larger diameter on first annual inspection.
Hopefully this will promote someone to make a authoritative statement . I
know that I'm a bit miffed about it, this will be the third time of
reworking the damn fuel pipes, plus I used the redundant type in my special
seat back sight gauge. !
Regards
Bob Harrison, G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Roger Sheridan
Sent: 06 January 2001 16:48
Subject: Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing
I had been planning to use polyurethane tubing for this, but the sample
piece I just removed from my fuel can is badly discoloured and slightly
expanded after 2 months exposure to auto fuel - not ideal.
Has anybody identified a material that does not degrade in this way?
Thanks for any feedback.
Rog Sheridan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
<005c01c0773a$414abf00$d51abc3e@default>
>while studying the problem, I think this may be - ergonomically - the
>optimum location for the valve,
>esp. if you are using the Andair valve.
> the tunnel foot position requires you to use your right (nonflying)
>hand in a simpler motion.
>The Andair valve also requires that you raise a lock knob to turn the
>selector, which is far easier to
>do when it's flat on the floor. And it's easier to read as well.
>Disadvantages: you have to drill another access hole in the floor behind
>the wheel wheel to access the connectors.
IMHO it makes more sense to fit a removeable bulkhead at the rear of the
wheel slot. I made it curved to wrap round the wheel. It pays at a later
date, flying from muddy fields, to have a mudguard above the wheel so don't
make it so tight there's no room for it.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing |
Hi! Again Roger.
Just got my brain into gear !!! The TECH TALK section in the Europa Aircraft
News Dec. 2000 has an item on the blessed pipes ! However it reads like you
are OK with Polyurethane ?
The correct hose from Europa is 10mm dia. The 12mm dia is PVC and no
longer suitable.
Regards again .
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Bob.Harrison
Sent: 06 January 2001 20:45
Subject: RE: Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing
Hi! Roger.
I read something about this recently ..... the original tubing Europa
supplied has been superceded by a different specification tubing . The new
specification happens to be slightly smaller in diameter and must replace
all the larger diameter on first annual inspection.
Hopefully this will promote someone to make a authoritative statement . I
know that I'm a bit miffed about it, this will be the third time of
reworking the damn fuel pipes, plus I used the redundant type in my special
seat back sight gauge. !
Regards
Bob Harrison, G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Roger Sheridan
Sent: 06 January 2001 16:48
Subject: Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing
I had been planning to use polyurethane tubing for this, but the sample
piece I just removed from my fuel can is badly discoloured and slightly
expanded after 2 months exposure to auto fuel - not ideal.
Has anybody identified a material that does not degrade in this way?
Thanks for any feedback.
Rog Sheridan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
Good point, Graham. The removeable bulkhead, together with the starboard
tunnel access hole now provided with the XS cockpit modules, should give all
the accessibility needed for the valve. And, perhaps, the rudder pulleys as
well.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement...
> >while studying the problem, I think this may be - ergonomically - the
> >optimum location for the valve,
> >esp. if you are using the Andair valve.
> > the tunnel foot position requires you to use your right (nonflying)
> >hand in a simpler motion.
> >The Andair valve also requires that you raise a lock knob to turn the
> >selector, which is far easier to
> >do when it's flat on the floor. And it's easier to read as well.
> >Disadvantages: you have to drill another access hole in the floor behind
> >the wheel wheel to access the connectors.
>
> IMHO it makes more sense to fit a removeable bulkhead at the rear of the
> wheel slot. I made it curved to wrap round the wheel. It pays at a later
> date, flying from muddy fields, to have a mudguard above the wheel so
don't
> make it so tight there's no room for it.
>
> Graham
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Hi All,
For the folks who occasionally browse my WEB site you may have noticed that
it has appears to not have been updated for some time. Unfortunately I have
had an ongoing saga because the ISP has changed owners. The new owner
migrated it to another machine and its been pretty well down hill from
there.
I am now at the stage where I can update it, but you will need to use the
URL including the index page in order to view the most recent updates.
http://pma.obtero.net/index.html
You may also need to manually refresh pages to ensure that you are looking
at the most recent version. Hopefully between myself and the ISP we will
have it straightened out soon.
Cheers, Paul (363)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flying" <paul-d.stewart.fly(at)virginnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
A curved bulkhead following the line of the rear curve of the tunnel
certainly leaves more space around the fuel selector area than the original
plywood one suggested in the manual. Made up a template from roofing lead
(not nicked I promise) tapped onto place with a mallet, layed up 3 plies of
bid over clingfilm and finally layed up a couple of brackets to take ancor
nuts for fixing. I've got a couple of pics if anyone is interested.
regards Paul Stewart
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Simpkins <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement...
> Good point, Graham. The removeable bulkhead, together with the starboard
> tunnel access hole now provided with the XS cockpit modules, should give
all
> the accessibility needed for the valve. And, perhaps, the rudder pulleys
as
> well.
>
> Shaun
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graham Singleton" <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement...
>
>
> > >while studying the problem, I think this may be - ergonomically - the
> > >optimum location for the valve,
> > >esp. if you are using the Andair valve.
> > > the tunnel foot position requires you to use your right (nonflying)
> > >hand in a simpler motion.
> > >The Andair valve also requires that you raise a lock knob to turn the
> > >selector, which is far easier to
> > >do when it's flat on the floor. And it's easier to read as well.
> > >Disadvantages: you have to drill another access hole in the floor
behind
> > >the wheel wheel to access the connectors.
> >
> > IMHO it makes more sense to fit a removeable bulkhead at the rear of the
> > wheel slot. I made it curved to wrap round the wheel. It pays at a later
> > date, flying from muddy fields, to have a mudguard above the wheel so
> don't
> > make it so tight there's no room for it.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | d (5 minute) epoxy mixing ratio |
Hello all.
The construction manual as well as other separate information is
quite specific about the mixing ratios of the Araldite 420, but I have
not seen specific information about the Araldite 2012, more commonly
known as 'Rapid' or 5 minute epoxy. The Araldite 2012 epoxy as supplied
in the kit, comes in a box with two equal sized tubes. I have not been
able to locate any information regarding the mixing ration of this
product. It doesn't say on the box, nor with the literature that comes
with the epoxy. I also could not locate it on the Araldite web site.
Should one assume that since it comes in equal sized tubes, that it is
supposed to be a 50/50 mixed product? I glued some test pieces of steel
and other things together (with a little flox) using a 50/50 mix. It
seems to have worked, and the working time was in the 5 - 8 minute
range. After that, it got quite rigid quite fast!
Jeff A191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapid (5 minute) epoxy mixing ratio - Thanks |
Thanks Chris & Susan.
Not too long after I sent my message, I did some more general searching
around the web and found a couple charts that show a 100:100/100:100
(whatever that means) mix. I took that to mean 50/50. Someone suggested that
if 5 minutes isn't enough working time, that you can go to just about any
large hobby store and get a 'slower' epoxy, such as 15 minutes. It's still
reasonably quick, but gives you a little more time to 'get things right'. I
noticed with the 5 minute stuff that you have better get it right soon, or
you're in deep bandini.
Jeff A191
Chris and Susan Beck wrote:
> Hi, Jeff. The 2012 is indeed 50/50 mix ratio. It seems to be pretty good
> stuff. We just ran out, so I bought some 5-minute stuff from Wicks
> Aircraft. Looks about the same, but it came in plastic bottles and isn't
> quite as thick.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Chris A159
>
> JLW wrote:
>
> > Hello all.
> >
> > The construction manual as well as other separate information is
> > quite specific about the mixing ratios of the Araldite 420, but I have
> > not seen specific information about the Araldite 2012, more commonly
> > known as 'Rapid' or 5 minute epoxy. The Araldite 2012 epoxy as supplied
> > in the kit, comes in a box with two equal sized tubes. I have not been
> > able to locate any information regarding the mixing ration of this
> > product. It doesn't say on the box, nor with the literature that comes
> > with the epoxy. I also could not locate it on the Araldite web site.
> > Should one assume that since it comes in equal sized tubes, that it is
> > supposed to be a 50/50 mixed product? I glued some test pieces of steel
> > and other things together (with a little flox) using a 50/50 mix. It
> > seems to have worked, and the working time was in the 5 - 8 minute
> > range. After that, it got quite rigid quite fast!
> >
> > Jeff A191
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapid (5 minute) epoxy mixing ratio |
Oh, one more thing. Here is the link to one of the charts I've seen on the
stuff. They have charts like this on many of the Araldite 2000 series
products, as well as numerous others. They're all pdf files, so they print
nicely. If you back up one directory, you'll see a large number of pdf files
in multiple languages.
Chris and Susan Beck wrote:
> Hi, Jeff. The 2012 is indeed 50/50 mix ratio. It seems to be pretty good
> stuff. We just ran out, so I bought some 5-minute stuff from Wicks
> Aircraft. Looks about the same, but it came in plastic bottles and isn't
> quite as thick.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Chris A159
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Rapid (5 minute) epoxy mixing ratio - Thanks |
100:100/100:100
means 100 parts to 100 parts by weight, 100 parts to 100 parts by volume.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapid (5 minute) epoxy mixing ratio |
I found a time & hassle saving tip for using this stuff. Buy 5-minute
epoxy that comes in a dual syringe. When used up (5-minute epoxy for
the Europa is nonstructural), use it for the Araldite 2012. Easy
50/50 mix and less mess. When refilling, just keep it straight which
side gets the resin and which the hardener!
Regards,
Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sight Gauge Tubing |
The new tubing fits nicely into a "deep-gap slotted optoswitch" (RS part
no.194-4030, around 4). The tubing is almost transparent to IR but the
focussing action when fuel is present gives a dramatic increase in output
current - enough to light an LED. So here is a cheap easily fitted low-level
indicator for your front-of-tank-mounted sight gauge, where (at least on the
pilot's side) it is difficult to read below 10 ltrs. You can run it on a PP3
battery, and a few more components will give an audible alarm via your
interecom aux. socket.
Of course fitting some more will lead you to a discrete digital fuel gauge,
but covering up all the tubing rather defeats the "reliability" of a sight
gauge.
It will also work along the fuel line as a bubble/ leak detector - a subject
close to my heart since my landings-out two years ago. But I have not been
able to substantiate the earlier theory that the time delay is due to bubble
accretion at a high spot. Experiments show bubbles in this size of tubing
(with fuel flowing at the standard rate) behaving a most extraordinary way.
Chaos seems to be the norm, with some stationary, some slow moving, sometimes
coalescing, while small ones fly past larger ones and so on. Must try to
take a video sometime.
BTW the new tubing still goes brown !
Graham G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | - Ailerons again! |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Keith Tallent"
*******************************************************
It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet layups!
After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
regards
Keith Tallent
Kit No 221
XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | HLP - Ailerons again! |
I may as well be first to tell you - there are no images on that page.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: HLP - Ailerons again!
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Keith Tallent"
*******************************************************
It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet layups!
After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
regards
Keith Tallent
Kit No 221
XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | trim switch swap |
Anyone got one of the older type MAC trim switches they would like to swap for
the
latest type? New ones have a more positive feel, but as they are about 1.1" deep
(vs
about .6" deep) they won'y fit in my sticktop housing....
Cheers
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Waters <robw(at)iprolink.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: HLP - Ailerons again! |
Try again Tony. The pics were there when I looked. Unfortunately I don't
know the answers.
Rob
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> I may as well be first to tell you - there are no images on that page.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Subject: HLP - Ailerons again!
>
> Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> "Keith Tallent"
>
> *******************************************************
>
> It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet layups!
>
> After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
> block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
>
> For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
> http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
>
> I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
>
> regards
>
> Keith Tallent
> Kit No 221
> XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <EuropaChris(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: HLP - Ailerons again!] |
I just tried again and finally got to the pics. We just went through this
step yesterday. I just filled in the "trough" with some dry micro before
laying up the uni plies. At most, the micro is about 3/16" wide, and I made
no attempt to fully blend in the foam/glass transition. These cores were not
very good with regard to the trailing edges, having a very poor matchup. The
rest of the t.e. will get blended with filler at the paint stage to make it
look pretty. It turned out pretty well, tho. FINALLY, we see the end of the
layup tunnel!!!
Chris A159
Rob Waters wrote:
> Try again Tony. The pics were there when I looked. Unfortunately I don't
> know the answers.
>
> Rob
>
> Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
> >
> > I may as well be first to tell you - there are no images on that page.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> > Subject: HLP - Ailerons again!
> >
> > Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> > "Keith Tallent"
> >
> > *******************************************************
> >
> > It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet
layups!
> >
> > After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
> > block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
> >
> > For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
> > http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
> >
> > I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Keith Tallent
> > Kit No 221
> > XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ents of List Messages |
This is going to sound stupid, but ....
I suggest that you don't start the subject of your message to the List with the
word 'Help' , nor the start of any paragraph in the body of the message.
The server software appears to scan the subject and bounce (reject) messages
whose subjects start with 'Help' (Help is a majordomo command). I don't know if
any other command keywords will cause the same effect though I suspect there are
some.
John Cliff
Europa Club List Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | HLP - Ailerons again! |
Hi! Rob /Tony /Keith
IMHO ...1).... fill the worst places with dry micro to ensure no air
bubbles(making sure no dry micro on the trailing edge bond area), then
overlay with a wet flox mix prior to top lay up. You will need to fill the
"register" on the other side with filler when you prepare for painting.
2) If you wish your ailerons to flow level with the finished wing DON'T sand
any off the profile.!
Tony ..... Thanks for the Modem cable info . Do I require one with socket
one end and plug the other or sockets both ends or plugs both ends ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rob Waters
Sent: 08 January 2001 19:03
Cc: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: Re: HLP - Ailerons again!
Try again Tony. The pics were there when I looked. Unfortunately I don't
know the answers.
Rob
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> I may as well be first to tell you - there are no images on that page.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Subject: HLP - Ailerons again!
>
> Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> "Keith Tallent"
>
> *******************************************************
>
> It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet layups!
>
> After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
> block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
>
> For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
> http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
>
> I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
>
> regards
>
> Keith Tallent
> Kit No 221
> XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | HLP - Ailerons again! |
Keith .... Sorry about this I forgot to answer you question on the peel
ply....
3) Obviously it looks tidier not to leave it in but it will
be buried after filling and painting anyway ! Get the ladies eyebrow
tweezers out and try to get what you can , it can't be weaker than the
polystyrene anyway !!!!
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 08 January 2001 20:39
Cc: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: RE: HLP - Ailerons again!
Hi! Rob /Tony /Keith
IMHO ...1).... fill the worst places with dry micro to ensure no air
bubbles(making sure no dry micro on the trailing edge bond area), then
overlay with a wet flox mix prior to top lay up. You will need to fill the
"register" on the other side with filler when you prepare for painting.
2) If you wish your ailerons to flow level with the finished wing DON'T sand
any off the profile.!
Tony ..... Thanks for the Modem cable info . Do I require one with socket
one end and plug the other or sockets both ends or plugs both ends ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rob Waters
Sent: 08 January 2001 19:03
Cc: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: Re: HLP - Ailerons again!
Try again Tony. The pics were there when I looked. Unfortunately I don't
know the answers.
Rob
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> I may as well be first to tell you - there are no images on that page.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Subject: HLP - Ailerons again!
>
> Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
> "Keith Tallent"
>
> *******************************************************
>
> It's me again...boy will I be glad to see the end of these big wet layups!
>
> After turning over the first lay-up, removing the trailing edge support
> block and peel ply, I have a couple of problems.
>
> For problem details, photos and questions, click on this link...
> http://www.thehangar.co.uk/help.htm
>
> I would be grateful for any advice supplied.
>
> regards
>
> Keith Tallent
> Kit No 221
> XS Tri-Gear G-SAMY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Return Hose & Stall Warning Device |
In my experience, silicone rubber products swell horribly when exposed
to petroleum. Never tried hot petroleum, but it's got to be worse!
Pops
A036
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: Oil Return Hose & Stall Warning Device
Posted on behalf of Nigel Charles, who is again being denied access by the
server !
***********************************************************************
'There is some concern over the ability of the existing rubber oil return
hose (in the Rotax engine installation) to withstand the extremes of
temperature created by the nearby exhaust silencer even when protected with
firesleeve. It has been suggested that Teflon hose might be the answer as
it can withstand temperature up to 200C as opposed to the normal limit of
130C for the usual rubber hose. I have noticed in a specialist spares
catalogue that silicon hoses can withstand temperatures up to 300C. Is
there any reason why this type of hose should not be used instead?'
'I have just bought the ACI Stall Warning device and very good it looks
too. Although it is very easy to mount the sensor onto the Europa wing,
routeing the cable and positioning the sounder looks to be more difficult,
particularly retrospectively on a Classic wing. Please could anyone who has
done this give me details how they went about it.'
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HLP - Ailerons again! |
Keith Tallent wrote --
> PROBLEM 2
> Aileron trailing edge after removal of peel ply - two or three strands of
> peel ply left at foam edge.
Consider taking all your blue peel ply to a trash can and verifying
the law of gravity. You should be able to buy 1", 2.7 oz or so proper
Dacron peel ply (get some 2" while yer at it -- will come in handy).
None of those annoying stands coming off the edges either. I get it
from Wicks Airraft here in the US.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Assistance with a mysterious reinforcement... |
Dear Shaun,
You are right - it is for the access panel from the fuel valve.
Note also that the D panel that goes at the back of the cockpit contains, in the
section that is cut out and thrown away, a triangular shaped reinforced section.
This is big enough to cut out 3 access panels, one for the fual valve as
above, and two for the panels under the fuel tank outlets.
Kind regards
Roger Bull
Technical Support
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
Hi All,
At risk of exposure of my lack of electical engineering ability, I am posting
the planned circuit protection device ratings I am planning to use. I appeal
to you experts in this field to correct any that need to be. I realize that
the load pushed the limit of the Rotax alternator but these are not the
actual loads, and I may make some adjustments to type equipment. I also
realize they are not what is shown in every case on the Europa schematic, but
some of them are left up to the builder anyway. What am I doing wrong by
using these values of fuses or breakers?
Thanks for all your opinions.
Troy
RC Allen Attitude Indicator------------------------------------3
Turn Coordinator(imported)(like RC Allen) --------------3
AV-10 Engine monitor------------------------------------------1.5
Michell Electric Tach (redundant to monitor------------1
Skysport Capacitance Fuel gage---------------------------1
Fuel Pump(at)T.O.& Lnd (Facet)-----------------------------5
Comm.Radio-------------------------------------------------------5
Transponder--------------------------------------------------------5
Alt. Encoder--------------------------------------------------------2
Trim, Pitch(MAC)------------------------------------------------ 1
AeroFlash Strobe------------------------------------------------ 5
AeroFlash Nav/Tail Lite Combo ---------------------------- 7.5
Landing Lite(55w)-----------------------------------------------10
Instrument Lites---------------------------------------------------2
Aux Panel Outlet-------------------------------------------------5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
Hi Again,
I have notice some have used an a.c. breaker on the panel instead of the 30
amp slow blow fuse inder the cowl. I have a 35 amp a.c. breaker that I bought
at the swap meet at Sun n Fun a few years ago. The following information is
printed on the side. 35A a.c.
S-1360-35
MP-1600Y-35
Mechanical Products
Is this an aircraft breaker or for industrial or either? Does anyone have any
idea if this is ok to use for the alternator?
Thanks,
Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HLP - Ailerons again! |
2001 08:17:48 pm"
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
> Keith Tallent wrote --
>
> > PROBLEM 2
> > Aileron trailing edge after removal of peel ply - two or three strands of
> > peel ply left at foam edge.
>
> Consider taking all your blue peel ply to a trash can and verifying
> the law of gravity. You should be able to buy 1", 2.7 oz or so proper
> Dacron peel ply (get some 2" while yer at it -- will come in handy).
> None of those annoying stands coming off the edges either. I get it
> from Wicks Airraft here in the US.
I bought some of that - and regretted using it. It is thicker than the
blue peel ply (I assume the 2.7 oz is the thickness I got from Wicks), so
that when I used it on the inside of a flange it caused it to have a tiny
air gap adjacent to it and the flange bulges out slightly. Currently I use
the Dacron for all outside applications and the blue peel ply for anything
which could affect shape.
Brian
> Regards,
> Fred F., A063
>
________________________________________________________________________________
9, 2001 11:24:43 am"
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
I looks like you are matching the circuit breaker/fuse to the item which
is drawing the load. This is one way to do it, but the way that I was
taught was to match the fuse to the wire which is feeding the current.
After all, the purpose of a fuse or circuit breaker is to prevent electrical
fire in the event of a short. It is not really important if the intercom is
drawing a bit more than 0.5 A, for example, but it is important if the
intercom is drawing so much current that the wires overheat.
The advantage of matching the fuse to the feed wire is you will not have any
nuisance trips and there will be a smaller variety of fuses. The advantage
of matching the fuse to the expected load is the ability to detect when a
device is drawing a small amount of current greater than expected. Finding
this out is usually not worth having the circuit breaker or fuse trip during
flight.
Brian
> Hi All,
>
> At risk of exposure of my lack of electical engineering ability, I am posting
> the planned circuit protection device ratings I am planning to use. I appeal
> to you experts in this field to correct any that need to be. I realize that
> the load pushed the limit of the Rotax alternator but these are not the
> actual loads, and I may make some adjustments to type equipment. I also
> realize they are not what is shown in every case on the Europa schematic, but
> some of them are left up to the builder anyway. What am I doing wrong by
> using these values of fuses or breakers?
> Thanks for all your opinions.
> Troy
>
> RC Allen Attitude Indicator------------------------------------3
> Turn Coordinator(imported)(like RC Allen) --------------3
> AV-10 Engine monitor------------------------------------------1.5
> Michell Electric Tach (redundant to monitor------------1
> Skysport Capacitance Fuel gage---------------------------1
> Fuel Pump(at)T.O.& Lnd (Facet)-----------------------------5
> Comm.Radio-------------------------------------------------------5
> Transponder--------------------------------------------------------5
> Alt. Encoder--------------------------------------------------------2
> Trim, Pitch(MAC)------------------------------------------------ 1
> AeroFlash Strobe------------------------------------------------ 5
> AeroFlash Nav/Tail Lite Combo ---------------------------- 7.5
> Landing Lite(55w)-----------------------------------------------10
> Instrument Lites---------------------------------------------------2
> Aux Panel Outlet-------------------------------------------------5
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory, Mike" <M.J.Gregory(at)cranfield.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Alternator Breaker |
Hello Troy
Under no circumstances should you use the AC (alternating current) rating
for a circuit breaker in a DC (direct current) electrical system. The reason
for this is that the alternating current reduces to zero twice per cycle (ie
100 or 120 times the second, so that any arc that forms as the contacts
separate will be extinguished within a few milliseconds. This allows the
breaker to break a much larger current, and do this repeatedly before the
contacts are damaged. The same value of direct current may continue to arc
across the contacts if they are not designed to to handle it -- at worst,
the contacts may fuse together and at best the breaker will have a short
life in terms of the number of trips before it fails.
Unless you know for certain the DC rating of a contactor or circuit breaker,
do not assume that an AC breaker will handle any useful level of DC load,
however large its AC rating.
Brian Rauchfuss's advice is sound -- rate the fuse or breaker to protect the
wiring.
I assume that "starter" refers to the starter relay: the starter itself
should be connected by the shortest route of heavy duty cable with no fuse
or breaker.
Fly safely
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
-----Original Message-----
From: TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
Subject: Alternator Breaker
Hi Again,
I have notice some have used an a.c. breaker on the panel instead of the
30 amp slow blow fuse inder the cowl. I have a 35 amp a.c. breaker that I
bought at the swap meet at Sun n Fun a few years ago. The following
information is printed on the side. 35A a.c. S-1360-35 MP-1600Y-35
Mechanical Products
Is this an aircraft breaker or for industrial or either? Does anyone
have any idea if this is ok to use for the alternator?
Thanks,
Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
The thing to remember is that the fuse protects the wiring, not the device
on the end.
1/ Work out the current draw of the device.
2/ Select a wire size that can handle the current
3/ Select the protection appropriate to the wire size.
For the Europa use the following current ratings...
Wire size Maximum Current
24 4
22 5
20 7
18 9
16 11
14 14
12 19
10 26
Use a fuse equal to or lower than the maximum current rating. eg a 3A fuse
would protect any wire size of 24AWG or larger diameter.
The basic concept is that the fuse should blow before the wire.
The table above is for 'short' wire runs. With the possible exception of
position lights on the end of the wing tips there are no long wire runs in
the Europa. For the position lights it would probably pay to go to the next
larger wire size than is required. I am running mine with 18AWG.
Hope this helps
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
----- Original Message -----
From: brianelliot <brianelliot(at)onetel.net.uk>
; Bob Ridley ; Hedley Brown
; Jennifer, Peter Oxenham
<101641.242(at)compuserve.com>; Ros Anderson
Subject: New Virus
> There is a new virus - WOBBLER. It will arrive on e-mail titled
CALIFORNIA.
> IBM and AOL have announced that it is very powerful, more so than Melissa;
> there is no remedy.
> It will eat all your information on the hard drive and also destroys
> Netscape Navigator and
> Microsoft Internet Explorer.
> Do not open anything with this title and please pass this message on to
all
> your contacts and anyone
> who uses your e-mail facility.
> Not many people seem to know about this yet, so propagate it as fast as
> possible.
> If you receive an e-mail titled "Win a Holiday" DO NOT open it. It will
> erase everything on your
> hard drive.
> Forward this letter out to as many people as you can.
> This is a new, very malicious virus and not many prople know about it.
> This information was announced from Microsoft
>
> (I received this news from the USA via my brother-in law, so I thought you
> ought to know.
>
> Brian.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Virus - Wobbler is a HOAX |
From the Symantec Web Site.......
Wobbler Hoax
Category: Hoax
The following two messages have been sent out by email. They are both
versions of the same hoax. This "virus" does not exist.
The hoax message includes one of the following "warnings":
Dear All, For your reference, take necessary precautions. If you receive an
email with a file called California, do not open the file. The file contains
WOBBLER virus. WARNING This information was announced yesterday morning from
IBM; AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than
"Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick
individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton
Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard drive. It
has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet
Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This is a new,
very malicious virus and not many people know about it.
Second sample of hoax message "warning":
VIRUS ALERT If you receive an email with a file called "California" do not
open the file. The file contains the virus. This information was announced
yesterday morning by IBM. The report says that "this is a very dangerous
virus, much worse than "Melissa" and there is NO remedy for it at this time.
Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from
Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard
drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft
Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This
is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it at this
time. Please pass this warning to everyone in your address book and share it
with all your online friends asap so that the destruction it can cause may
be minimized.
EVERYONE PLEASE...
Before passing on virus messages, do us all a favour and check with one of
the major virus protection sites, www.symantec.com or www.mcafee.com to
check that it's not a hoax.
Thanks
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
Very well stated, Tony. Picking fuse/breaker ratings with respect to
the device's nominal current draw may not allow for inrush current.
More pertinent to fast-acting fuses verses breakers, and often true of
motors and avionics -- on the test bench I've seen some spirited
inrush on things like transponders or avionics with DC-DC converters
for displays.
OTOH, if wire size selection has been conservative, I'd use caution in
placing too high a fuse/breaker rating on something that's really
expensive. Sometimes an avionics mfr. will specify even 16 ga. be
used on the 14V line, even though the box draws, say, 1.3 A. But if
the fault inside were to kick the draw to just below a 10-amp
fuse/breaker, you could be slowly cooking component$ inside that are
not initially defective and frying traces off a PCB board. 5-amp here
would make me feel better in this example, even less if the mfr. says
so (e.g., 3-amp for the King KT-76/78 xponder that draws 1.8 A max,
1.1 standby, but just maybe not a fast-acting).
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> The thing to remember is that the fuse protects the wiring, not the device
> on the end.
>
> 1/ Work out the current draw of the device.
> 2/ Select a wire size that can handle the current
> 3/ Select the protection appropriate to the wire size.
>
> For the Europa use the following current ratings...
>
> Wire size Maximum Current
> 24 4
> 22 5
> 20 7
> 18 9
> 16 11
> 14 14
> 12 19
> 10 26
>
> Use a fuse equal to or lower than the maximum current rating. eg a 3A fuse
> would protect any wire size of 24AWG or larger diameter.
>
> The basic concept is that the fuse should blow before the wire.
>
> The table above is for 'short' wire runs. With the possible exception of
> position lights on the end of the wing tips there are no long wire runs in
> the Europa. For the position lights it would probably pay to go to the next
> larger wire size than is required. I am running mine with 18AWG.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HLP - Ailerons again! |
That might have been an anomaly, as I've hadn't experienced that
anywhere and am about done with glassing. But plausible due to it's
thickness (Aircraft Spruce's stuff is 1.7 oz., but n/a in 1" rolls
last I looked). If you're referring to the part of the flange that
will later accept a hinge (or anything one wants to cure flat), I
added a layer of poly film and a strip of aluminum from the scrap box,
lightly clamped if appropriate. Now I see why it seemed to make sense
at
the time!
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Brian Rauchfuss wrote --
> I bought some of that - and regretted using it. It is thicker than the
> blue peel ply (I assume the 2.7 oz is the thickness I got from Wicks), so
> that when I used it on the inside of a flange it caused it to have a tiny
> air gap adjacent to it and the flange bulges out slightly. Currently I use
> the Dacron for all outside applications and the blue peel ply for anything`
> which could affect shape.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | ron instruction clarification |
Hello all...
I've noticed a slight 'possible' discrepancy or at least a curiosity
with regard to the placement of the aileron hinges, and the placement of
the reinforcement for them.
On Page 7-4, figure 7 there is a measurement of 117 cm (46") from
the root of the aileron. That measurement is supposed to be the center
of the location of the 20 cm reinforcement.
On Page 7-8, figure 14 there is another measurement of 117 cm,
except it is shown to be starting from 13 cm (1") further outboard from
the root. The measurement is supposed to be the center of the location
for the 127 mm (5") hinge.
Am I the only one to have found that to be somewhat of a curious
difference between the two measurements? I find that if I start the
measurement for the outboard hinge an extra inch outboard as in figure
14 that the hinge is just barely still on the reinforcement.
Jeff A191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Cripps" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com> |
Following on from the recent discussions on this subject, I have looked at
my hoses which seem fine at the moment. However, it seems prudent to have
some spare hose to hand. Unfortunately I cannot easily read the
specification printed on the return hose, except that it says '13mm' and has
a 'Burst Pressure' which is unreadable. This oil return hose also looks to
be made of a slightly different material to the other oil hoses (these seem
to have a more textured and less smooth feel). Are they all actually meant
to be the same spec. and does anyone know the exact current specification of
these hoses (diameters and temperature/pressure rating)?
Was there a final conclusion to the best material for such a hose (Teflon,
Silicon, rubber etc)?
Many thanks in advance.
David Cripps
GBWJH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter J BARWICK <peter.j.barwick(at)hsbc.com> |
The fuse is there to protect BOTH the device and the wiring. It
should NEVER exceed the rating set by the device manufacturer which
will usually have a bit in reserve.
> Picking fuse/breaker ratings with respect to the device's nominal
> current draw may not allow for inrush current.
Use an anti-surge or Slo-Blo fuse.
> OTOH, if wire size selection has been conservative, I'd use caution
> in placing too high a fuse/breaker rating on something that's really
> expensive. Sometimes an avionics mfr. will specify even 16 ga. be
> used on the 14V line, even though the box draws, say, 1.3 A. But if
> the fault inside were to kick the draw to just below a 10-amp
> fuse/breaker, you could be slowly cooking component$ inside that are
> not initially defective and frying traces off a PCB board.
I agree absolutely, but not just the expensive equipment. I've seen
clouds of fumes coming out of a ham transmitter than had been fitted
with a 10 amp fuse after the original 5 amp fuse had blown. I don't
know how toxic the fumes were but they certainly reduced visibility.
Please, take great care.
Peter Barwick
********************************************************************
This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinary
user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also
be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,
forward, disclose or use any part of the message or its
attachments and if you have received this message in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
your system.
Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or
error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,
arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context of
this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.
Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and
are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office
through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly
indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so
bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.
********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Oil Return Hose & Stall Warning Device |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
****************************************************************
Message text written by "Chuck Popenoe"
>In my experience, silicone rubber products swell horribly when exposed
to petroleum. Never tried hot petroleum, but it's got to be worse!
<
This is for use with engine oil not gasoline. The silicone tubing I am
looking at is used in competition cars for oil piping so it should be able
to cope provided it doesn't get above 300C. Does anyone else have any
useful input on this one?
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | est for info from builders in Switzerland |
If there's anyone out there who can give me some advice on the regulatory
atmosphere regarding homebuilts in CH I'd be grateful if you could email me on
tsears(at)mmm.com .
Thanks
Trevor Sears
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil return hose |
| From: | "Garry Stout" <gstout(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/10/2001 08:37:37 AM
Since I was the one who started this thread, I thought I'd share my
summarized thoughts with everyone. I believe that the ultimate solution
would be to remove the sump banjo fitting, cut off the tip of the fitting,
and weld on a male threaded fitting. Utilizing this threaded fitting I
would then fabricate a steel oil return line and route it up to the oil
reservoir. Once getting past the heat sources (turbo unit and exhaust
manifolds) I would mate a conventional flexible hose to the steel hose for
the last 3 or 4 inches before the line connects to the oil reservoir. This
is necessary to absorb engine vibrations. With this setup, it's impossible
to "burn" the oil line.
Now, that's not what I did. After much research and lots of advice from
fellow Europa flyers, I determined that a flexible hose made by
AeroQuip........model #666, would suffice. This hose is made of teflon and
is covered with a stainless steel mesh. It is supposedly rated to 350
degrees (F). I further wrapped the hose with a 1/4 inch thick flexible
firewall insulating material which I believe is asbestos filler with a
silver foil material on each side. My friend Marvin Alvarez says he put
his welding torch to this material..........about 2,000 degrees (F), and it
didn't burn.
I've only put a couple of hours on the plane since making this mod, but so
far, so good. Another Europa pilot in California has used the AeroQuip
hose alone, with no further insulation, and has successfully flown 200
hours with no problems.
How this whole problem started is as follows. Rotax supplies a fine, high
quality oil return hose to be used for this application. Due to the unique
oil line routing (to the reservoir) recommended by Europa, a 120 degree
bend in the hose is required just as the hose exits the sump banjo fitting.
Europa supplies a substitute hose which is pre-molded with the 120 degree
bend molded in......and instructs that their hose be used rather than the
Rotax (straight) hose. Unfortunately, the Europa supplied hose is totally
unsuitable for that application. It has no heat resistance and isn't even
internally reinforced. It's a plain rubber hose more suitable for a douche
bag than for a critical aircraft engine component in a high temperature
environment. I suggest all Europa builders/flyers replace this hose
immediately. Shame on Europa for not issuing a warning / mandatory mod on
this........years ago.
Regards,
Garry Stout
N4220S
(813) 878-3929
FAX (813) 878-5651, Internet ID Garrys(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron instruction clarification |
Thanks Edward.
I agree the root hinge starts one inch from the root. But, in terms of the
117 cm measurement, I'm betting the drawing in figure 14 is incorrect. I'd
like someone at Europa to corroborate that. In my book it clearly shows the 117
cm measurement starting one inch out from where it was shown in figure 7.
Jeff
Edward Lockhart wrote:
> I don't have the latest update of the manual here in the house but the Sept
> 97 pages show that the outboard hinge should be centred on a point 117cm /
> 46" from the root end of the aileron.
>
> The 13mm / 0.5" line [sept 97 manual] in fig 14 marks the limit of the
> inboard aileron, i.e. it should at least 13mm from the aileron root.
>
> I'd put the hinge where the reinforcement is and when you do the aileron
> hinge reinforcement layups on the wing in chapt. 8, make sure the layups are
> aligned to the aileron.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! Gary.
No problems like this on the 3300 Jabiru !!!!!?
Pleased you didn't go for the steel pipe alone since it sounds like a good
oil "BOILER" !!!??
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Garry Stout
Sent: 10 January 2001 13:38
Cc: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: Re: Oil return hose
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Memo: Re: amps |
Peter J BARWICK wrote:
>
> The fuse is there to protect BOTH the device and the wiring. It
> should NEVER exceed the rating set by the device manufacturer which
> will usually have a bit in reserve.
And there's always mysterious exceptions. On one Narco transponder,
they spec 1.6A transmit, but to use a 1.5A circuit breaker. Likely
that's 1.6A at it's max reply rate of 1200/second, which is
impossible. But the box has a pwr out pin for an encoder, and they
forgot to tell you to allow for that!
UPSAT settles the issue with a fusible link on the board, cause they
just know even a professional installer might spot an unused 5A
breaker and....
The best example for concern here might be that electric fuel pump.
Experiments on the effect of boiling fuel inside of it are best left
to laboratory conditions rather than in flight.
Regards,
Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hi Troy,
Do you have a copy of Bob Nuckolls' 'The Aeroelectric Connection" ? If not, I can
highly recommend it. It goes over aircraft electrics philosophy very thoroughly
and gives all the steps for wire sizing and good practise. It also confirms basic
steps as (i) size wire based on user amps, acceptable voltage drop and wire
length (there and back for composite planes) and (ii) size breaker or fuse based
on wire size. Copies are available at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html.
Cheers, John
A099, N262WF
<<<
TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> At risk of exposure of my lack of electical engineering ability, I am posting
> the planned circuit protection device ratings I am planning to use. >>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: New Virus - Wobbler is a HOAX |
Sorry ....h
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Subject: New Virus - Wobbler is a HOAX
> >From the Symantec Web Site.......
>
> Wobbler Hoax
> Category: Hoax
>
>
> The following two messages have been sent out by email. They are both
> versions of the same hoax. This "virus" does not exist.
>
> The hoax message includes one of the following "warnings":
>
> Dear All, For your reference, take necessary precautions. If you receive
an
> email with a file called California, do not open the file. The file
contains
> WOBBLER virus. WARNING This information was announced yesterday morning
from
> IBM; AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than
> "Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick
> individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton
> Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard drive.
It
> has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet
> Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This is a
new,
> very malicious virus and not many people know about it.
>
> Second sample of hoax message "warning":
>
> VIRUS ALERT If you receive an email with a file called "California" do not
> open the file. The file contains the virus. This information was announced
> yesterday morning by IBM. The report says that "this is a very dangerous
> virus, much worse than "Melissa" and there is NO remedy for it at this
time.
> Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function
from
> Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard
> drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft
> Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers.
This
> is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it at this
> time. Please pass this warning to everyone in your address book and share
it
> with all your online friends asap so that the destruction it can cause may
> be minimized.
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> EVERYONE PLEASE...
>
> Before passing on virus messages, do us all a favour and check with one of
> the major virus protection sites, www.symantec.com or www.mcafee.com to
> check that it's not a hoax.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
I have been deluded by my simple mind into thinking that a 5-amp contact
breaker for dc circuits would break at 5 amps regardless of whether it was
rated at 12 or 24 amps. Not so. Having installed 11 of them from a motor
trader's catalogue, with the great advantage that they were exchangeable
with spade-type motor fuses, I was warned that because they were deemed
suitable also for 24-volt circuits they might not break at the right
amperage. I was incredulous - amps are amps.... relative to wire thickness
that's what makes the heat that breaks the fuse or clicks the breaker,
surely. No; they broke contact at twice the rated current, by which time my
trial variable-length of hotwire was glowing brightly. Had to resort to good
'ole fuses and write off 110.00. Still don't understand the physics. Ah.,
well....
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: amps
> Very well stated, Tony. Picking fuse/breaker ratings with respect to
> the device's nominal current draw may not allow for inrush current.
> More pertinent to fast-acting fuses verses breakers, and often true of
> motors and avionics -- on the test bench I've seen some spirited
> inrush on things like transponders or avionics with DC-DC converters
> for displays.
>
> OTOH, if wire size selection has been conservative, I'd use caution in
> placing too high a fuse/breaker rating on something that's really
> expensive. Sometimes an avionics mfr. will specify even 16 ga. be
> used on the 14V line, even though the box draws, say, 1.3 A. But if
> the fault inside were to kick the draw to just below a 10-amp
> fuse/breaker, you could be slowly cooking component$ inside that are
> not initially defective and frying traces off a PCB board. 5-amp here
> would make me feel better in this example, even less if the mfr. says
> so (e.g., 3-amp for the King KT-76/78 xponder that draws 1.8 A max,
> 1.1 standby, but just maybe not a fast-acting).
>
> Regards,
> Fred F., A063
>
> Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
> >
> > The thing to remember is that the fuse protects the wiring, not the
device
> > on the end.
> >
> > 1/ Work out the current draw of the device.
> > 2/ Select a wire size that can handle the current
> > 3/ Select the protection appropriate to the wire size.
> >
> > For the Europa use the following current ratings...
> >
> > Wire size Maximum Current
> > 24 4
> > 22 5
> > 20 7
> > 18 9
> > 16 11
> > 14 14
> > 12 19
> > 10 26
> >
> > Use a fuse equal to or lower than the maximum current rating. eg a 3A
fuse
> > would protect any wire size of 24AWG or larger diameter.
> >
> > The basic concept is that the fuse should blow before the wire.
> >
> > The table above is for 'short' wire runs. With the possible exception of
> > position lights on the end of the wing tips there are no long wire runs
in
> > the Europa. For the position lights it would probably pay to go to the
next
> > larger wire size than is required. I am running mine with 18AWG.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Fuller <alfuller(at)webworldinc.com> |
Yes - and we all know how impossible it is to get the device running after
the "factory-installed smoke" has escaped.....
Cheers,
Al
At Wednesday 01:09 AM1/10/2001, Peter J BARWICK wrote:
>I've seen
>clouds of fumes coming out of a ham transmitter than had been fitted
>with a 10 amp fuse after the original 5 amp fuse had blown.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
> I am posting
>the planned circuit protection device ratings I am planning to use
It's important to realize that the fuse/breaker rating is chosen to
match the wire size of the outgoing circuit. The wire size is
previously chosen to safely supply the expected current drain of the
devices it feeds. The fault that will cause your protection device to
operate is just as likely to be a short to earth (common) part-way
along the wiring harness, as an internal fault in a black box.
So, I believe you need to include in this table the wire sizes you
intend to use for connecting each of the proposed loads, before
informed comment can be made on the correctness of your choices.
Good question, though!
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory, Mike" <M.J.Gregory(at)cranfield.ac.uk> |
But, Hedley, did you also test them in a 24v circuit?
It's helpful to look at a manufacturer's catalogue to see for the expected
trip characteristics of a particular circuit breaker should be. These will
depend on whether its operation is magnetic or thermal, or combined
magnetic/thermal. While you are correct in thinking that the trip current
should be independent of the circuit voltage, how quickly it trips will
depend on the rate at which the current rises and the current level reached.
For example, a typical thermal circuit breaker, rated at up to 240 V 50 Hz
AC/28 V DC, is quoted as having typical trip times in seconds at 23 degrees
C. of:
100% -- no trip
200% -- 10-60
300% -- 3.5-14
400% -- 2-7
500% -- 1.5-5
600% -- 1-3.5
This means that you would see your test wire glowing at 200% rated current
for up to a minute before the breaker trips. As your test wire heats up, its
resistance would increase and reduce the current unless you slide the
tapping to maintain a constant current. If the current dips below 200%, the
trip time would even greater.
Hope this helps
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
-----Original Message-----
From: hedley brown
Subject: Re: amps
I have been deluded by my simple mind into thinking that a 5-amp contact
breaker for dc circuits would break at 5 amps regardless of whether it
was rated at 12 or 24 amps. Not so. Having installed 11 of them from a motor
trader's catalogue, with the great advantage that they were exchangeable
with spade-type motor fuses, I was warned that because they were deemed
suitable also for 24-volt circuits they might not break at the right
amperage. I was incredulous - amps are amps.... relative to wire
thickness that's what makes the heat that breaks the fuse or clicks the
breaker, surely. No; they broke contact at twice the rated current, by which
time my trial variable-length of hotwire was glowing brightly. Had to resort
to good 'ole fuses and write off 110.00. Still don't understand the
physics.
Ah.,
well....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
hedley brown wrote:
>
> I have been deluded by my simple mind into thinking that a 5-amp contact
> breaker for dc circuits would break at 5 amps regardless of whether it was
> rated at 12 or 24 amps. Not so. Having installed 11 of them from a motor
> trader's catalogue, with the great advantage that they were exchangeable
> with spade-type motor fuses, I was warned that because they were deemed
> suitable also for 24-volt circuits they might not break at the right
> amperage. I was incredulous - amps are amps.... relative to wire thickness
> that's what makes the heat that breaks the fuse or clicks the breaker,
> surely. No; they broke contact at twice the rated current, by which time my
> trial variable-length of hotwire was glowing brightly. Had to resort to good
> 'ole fuses and write off 110.00. Still don't understand the physics. Ah.,
> well....
Hedley, did you give 'em enough time to pop at rated current? Seems I
remember among Bob Nuckoll's many fine epistles some data on this, and
it's measured in many seconds. He's anti-breaker anyway, as the
advantage of being able to easily reset them is actually the problem.
I agree especially for modern avionics. The scenario is: a 50-cent
diode fails and creates havoc in the supply voltage to the integrated
circuits. The breaker pops before anything else is damaged. Reset
the breaker, and a $300 IC cooks. Reset it again (duh!!) and....
Regards,
Fred F., A063
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HOSE ROUTING, EUROPA XS |
Further to previous comments the following may be useful to those of you with the
XS engine installations.
The two oil hoses which run underneath the engine, one from the banjo fitting and
the other from the oil pump, (C06), should be routed to pass over the water
hose of the starboard rear cylinder to ensure maximum distance from the turbo
charger/ exhaust system. These hoses should run just underneath the starter motor
and pass through the ring mounting before going to the oil tank or oil cooler
respectively.
Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Manager
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flying" <paul-d.stewart.fly(at)virginnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ing in the cockpit module |
Hoping to bond the cockpit module into the canoe this weekend - with
some trepidation. Anyone got any hits, tips or major disasters to avoid.
Second thing, I did a trial fitting of the wings to the cockpit module
the other day (used the dummy spar to set the bushes etc.) - very
relieved to find it all lines up but how much clearance have folk got
between the stbd spar and the bolts connecting aileron push rods to CS8
- seems awful close.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: OIL HOSE ROUTING, EUROPA XS |
amazing....pure fluke....for once I got it right first time.... h
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Draper <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: OIL HOSE ROUTING, EUROPA XS
> Further to previous comments the following may be useful to those of you
with the XS engine installations.
>
> The two oil hoses which run underneath the engine, one from the banjo
fitting and the other from the oil pump, (C06), should be routed to pass
over the water hose of the starboard rear cylinder to ensure maximum
distance from the turbo charger/ exhaust system. These hoses should run just
underneath the starter motor and pass through the ring mounting before going
to the oil tank or oil cooler respectively.
>
> Regards
>
> Andy Draper
> Technical Manager
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill McClellan <wilmac(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding in the cockpit module |
Paul,
The manual doesn't make this real clear but make sure in you get the
module square to the fuselage. Trial fit it and make some marks/lines
so it gets glued in the correct position. The module determines the
wing position. You don't want one wing lower or further back than the
other. If the module is a little off it makes for a bigger deviation
out at the wing tips. I used the deck of the seat back rest behind the
head rests as one datum plane. The fuselage flange (after being trimmed
properly) just aft of the firewall as another, and the tailplane torque
tube (which you haven't put in yet) as the third. You want all three
parallel. The top surface of the foot wells are not as good as both the
surfaces slope moving forward and are hard to see when you site with the
other planes to see if they are parallel. Do compare the foot well to
the other three surfaces though.
You put the Redux glue on the module and then drop it in place. The
glue will try to rub off on the fuselage as you slide the module in
place. Best to have several hands to help spread the fuselage sides and
assist lowering the module in place. I used a simple block and tackle
overhead to assist lowering the module. I hooked the sling to the
module in the head rest cut openings and guided the front of the module
by hand. Before gluing check where the module contacts the fuselage and
where there are gaps as you will want the glue to fill all the places it
is supposed to contact the fuselage. I used self tapping screws
sparingly (only 10 to 15) to draw the module to the fuselage. Realize
that whether you use screws, rivets or clecos it potentially locally
dimples the fuselage skin or can even more significantly deforms the
fuselage shape. You want the module glued in but with out much
deformation of the fuselage. I didn't draw down the screws tight if
there was a space there as that would for sure dimple the outer skin.
The Redux glue holds well even filling a space of 1/4 inch. Hopefully
you won't have any spaces that large.
I also found that the way you support the fuselage hull changes its
shape. I used a sling or strap around the fuselage right at the rear of
where the module goes as that let the fuselage bottom stay closest to
its unloaded shape. I supported the front of the fuselage with two
bolts through the fselage sides at the firewall to fuselage union. It
is rather stiff there and not prone to deforming with any supporting
methods.
I used about 3/4 can of the Redux glue and had some clean up of glue
that oozed from the joints. Make sure you use enough flox in the glue
so it doesn't run. Too much flox in the glue is better than too
little. Easiest to mix in many containers as opposed one or just a
few. You might have someone measuring and mixing as you go. The
temperature was about 80 deg F and I had plenty of time with out the
Redux going off but that could be a concern. The Redux was setting up
when I was through positioning and was cleaning up the ooze from the
joints.
You need to trim off a portion of the rear of the module which I don't
believe is in the current manual yet. If this section is not trimmed
before gluing, it will have to be trimmed later to put in the baggage
compartment bulkhead. I can send you a picture of this area trimmed if
you wish.
I felt the same way about the spars clearance. Hopefully I won't
discover a problem later.
Good luck,
Bill McClellan
A164
flying wrote:
> Hoping to bond the cockpit module into the canoe this weekend - with
> some trepidation. Anyone got any hits, tips or major disasters to
> avoid. Second thing, I did a trial fitting of the wings to the cockpit
> module the other day (used the dummy spar to set the bushes etc.) -
> very relieved to find it all lines up but how much clearance have folk
> got between the stbd spar and the bolts connecting aileron push rods
> to CS8 - seems awful close. regards Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | bonding in the cockpit module |
Definitely worry about the spar clearance - I found it necessary to "modify"
the aileron bellcrank faces to clear the bolts.
The use of a hoist to lower the cockpit module is very convenient (a 2X4 of
the right length will fit nicely into both headrests and is at a good
location for reasonably good balance). I used essentially the same scheme
Bill describes to hang the module and to spread and to support the
fuselage - I can assure you that it makes the task much simpler. Having at
least one other set of hands is likewise very helpful.
Trimming the extra material from the rear of the cockpit module is a very
good idea. I blindly followed the manual only to realize when it was time
to install the baggage compartment bulkhead that it was rather tedious to
make the required cut after bonding (especially since some of it was bonded
to the fuselage sides!)
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Bill McClellan
Subject: Re: bonding in the cockpit module
Paul,
The manual doesn't make this real clear but make sure in you get the module
square to the fuselage. Trial fit it and make some marks/lines so it gets
glued in the correct position. The module determines the wing position.
You don't want one wing lower or further back than the other. If the module
is a little off it makes for a bigger deviation out at the wing tips. I
used the deck of the seat back rest behind the head rests as one datum
plane. The fuselage flange (after being trimmed properly) just aft of the
firewall as another, and the tailplane torque tube (which you haven't put in
yet) as the third. You want all three parallel. The top surface of the
foot wells are not as good as both the surfaces slope moving forward and are
hard to see when you site with the other planes to see if they are parallel.
Do compare the foot well to the other three surfaces though.
You put the Redux glue on the module and then drop it in place. The glue
will try to rub off on the fuselage as you slide the module in place. Best
to have several hands to help spread the fuselage sides and assist lowering
the module in place. I used a simple block and tackle overhead to assist
lowering the module. I hooked the sling to the module in the head rest cut
openings and guided the front of the module by hand. Before gluing check
where the module contacts the fuselage and where there are gaps as you will
want the glue to fill all the places it is supposed to contact the fuselage.
I used self tapping screws sparingly (only 10 to 15) to draw the module to
the fuselage. Realize that whether you use screws, rivets or clecos it
potentially locally dimples the fuselage skin or can even more significantly
deforms the fuselage shape. You want the module glued in but with out much
deformation of the fuselage. I didn't draw down the screws tight if there
was a space there as that would for sure dimple the outer skin. The Redux
glue holds well even filling a space of 1/4 inch. Hopefully you won't have
any spaces that large.
I also found that the way you support the fuselage hull changes its shape.
I used a sling or strap around the fuselage right at the rear of where the
module goes as that let the fuselage bottom stay closest to its unloaded
shape. I supported the front of the fuselage with two bolts through the
fselage sides at the firewall to fuselage union. It is rather stiff there
and not prone to deforming with any supporting methods.
I used about 3/4 can of the Redux glue and had some clean up of glue that
oozed from the joints. Make sure you use enough flox in the glue so it
doesn't run. Too much flox in the glue is better than too little. Easiest
to mix in many containers as opposed one or just a few. You might have
someone measuring and mixing as you go. The temperature was about 80 deg F
and I had plenty of time with out the Redux going off but that could be a
concern. The Redux was setting up when I was through positioning and was
cleaning up the ooze from the joints.
You need to trim off a portion of the rear of the module which I don't
believe is in the current manual yet. If this section is not trimmed before
gluing, it will have to be trimmed later to put in the baggage compartment
bulkhead. I can send you a picture of this area trimmed if you wish.
I felt the same way about the spars clearance. Hopefully I won't discover a
problem later.
Good luck,
Bill McClellan
A164
flying wrote:
Hoping to bond the cockpit module into the canoe this weekend - with some
trepidation. Anyone got any hits, tips or major disasters to avoid. Second
thing, I did a trial fitting of the wings to the cockpit module the other
day (used the dummy spar to set the bushes etc.) - very relieved to find it
all lines up but how much clearance have folk got between the stbd spar and
the bolts connecting aileron push rods to CS8 - seems awful close. regards
Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | bonding in the cockpit module |
Make sure the spread between the seat bulkhead front and back is correct per
the manual. This affects the position of the back of the baggage bin which,
if incorrect, will be impacted by the flap actuating arm on retraction.
and
Remember that the seat back is the angle of incidence of the wings. Get this
at 2.5 degrees to the watermark reference and life will be much more
pleasant later on. Of course this does assume that you got the spars rigged
parallel to the seat back when you did the initial setup with the cockpit
module out of the aircraft.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | bonding in the cockpit module |
Hi! Paul.(from a MK l Builder to an XS ......!)
Make sure the top moulding is pulled well back onto the firewall to ensure
the empenage to fin area is well overlapping . I needed to have a piece of
3/4" ply across the inside of the start of the fin then drilled through the
lot to insert a long piece of 3/16" threaded bar right through to enable the
lot to be tightened
up together.I put a good smearing of redux on both flanges before mating
together, don't allow the over-riding flange to ride up the register of the
other anywhere, as it makes for lots of filling later.
Make good use of a hand held light behind the joint to judge the thickness
of the joint along the whole length of the overlap to ensure there is a bond
over the entire overlap and flanges , don't squeeze all the redux out . Make
an effort to trowel off all excess redux.
On the spa clearance , my "old man " always said "a miss is as good as a
mile "! There isn't a lot of clearance because I notice mine always only
just clears when we do the rigging.! We have often missed the the starboard
socket with the PORT SPAR THEN IT JAMS AGAINST THE SAID BOLT HEADS
BFN
Bob Harrison G-PTAG.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: bonding in the cockpit module
Hoping to bond the cockpit module into the canoe this weekend - with some
trepidation. Anyone got any hits, tips or major disasters to avoid. Second
thing, I did a trial fitting of the wings to the cockpit module the other
day (used the dummy spar to set the bushes etc.) - very relieved to find it
all lines up but how much clearance have folk got between the stbd spar and
the bolts connecting aileron push rods to CS8 - seems awful close.
regards
Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | bonding in the cockpit module |
Hi! Paul.
Serves me right for jumping in too quickly ! I see from ensuing messages
that it's the module you are fixing in ,not the fuselage top !
Save my notes for when you need it.! (and dream on !)
The tip about the light still applies , I made sure to omit redux where the
control tubes pass through .
I also had a dummy run , marked out where the redux was needed on the bottom
of the canoe and applied redux to both surfaces . As Bill suggests trowel
excess redux into any gaps , less weight and stronger to do this than deform
the members and need loads of filler on the outside. Also make sure the
aileron actuating plates clear the canoe floor when operated. Have you
fitted the rudder cable pulleys,easier now (Bolt heads behind the pulleys)
Europa won't thank me but have you checked the position of the aluminium
hard point inserts for lift pin locations, in the canoe? Ours were out of
place and when you drill through you are unable to verify that there is
adequate metal around the holes.(much easier to reposition them without the
module in place, believe me I've been there !)
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: RE: bonding in the cockpit module
Hi! Paul.(from a MK l Builder to an XS ......!)
Make sure the top moulding is pulled well back onto the firewall to ensure
the empenage to fin area is well overlapping . I needed to have a piece of
3/4" ply across the inside of the start of the fin then drilled through the
lot to insert a long piece of 3/16" threaded bar right through to enable the
lot to be tightened
up together.I put a good smearing of redux on both flanges before mating
together, don't allow the over-riding flange to ride up the register of the
other anywhere, as it makes for lots of filling later.
Make good use of a hand held light behind the joint to judge the
thickness of the joint along the whole length of the overlap to ensure there
is a bond over the entire overlap and flanges , don't squeeze all the redux
out . Make an effort to trowel off all excess redux.
On the spa clearance , my "old man " always said "a miss is as good as a
mile "! There isn't a lot of clearance because I notice mine always only
just clears when we do the rigging.! We have often missed the the starboard
socket with the PORT SPAR THEN IT JAMS AGAINST THE SAID BOLT HEADS
BFN
Bob Harrison G-PTAG.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: bonding in the cockpit module
Hoping to bond the cockpit module into the canoe this weekend - with
some trepidation. Anyone got any hits, tips or major disasters to avoid.
Second thing, I did a trial fitting of the wings to the cockpit module the
other day (used the dummy spar to set the bushes etc.) - very relieved to
find it all lines up but how much clearance have folk got between the stbd
spar and the bolts connecting aileron push rods to CS8 - seems awful close.
regards
Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil return hose |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
*********************************************************
Message text written by "Garry Stout"
> Rotax supplies a fine, high
quality oil return hose to be used for this application. Due to the unique
oil line routing (to the reservoir) recommended by Europa, a 120 degree
bend in the hose is required just as the hose exits the sump banjo fitting.
Europa supplies a substitute hose which is pre-molded with the 120 degree
bend molded in....<
Thanks for your input.
I don't understand the 120 degree bend. On my 'Classic' Europa the banjo
fitting is rotated aft and the hose routed towards the rear engine mounts.
Having spoken to Neville at Europa he thinks that Silicone hose might be
the best 'flexible' solution but agrees with your idea of a rigid return
pipe. I am looking into the Silicone product as I do not have welding
capabilities.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding in the cockpit module |
I found it surprisingly easy - as did Neville, who was helping me. The tricks are:
1/ decent fuselage jig that holds the bottom half rigid (essential, I believe)
2/ remove the module side pieces "seat front to seat back" and "seat front to rudder
pedal bulkhead" - replace later with 3 x bid (approved by Andy)
3/ sort out position - all I needed was 2 x AN3 bolts pulling the module as far
forward
as possible, 2 X skin pins just forward of the aft bulkhead about 4" down, and
a wide
ratchet strap pulling down on the seat headrest tops via a 3 X 4 and a couple of
eye
bolts. - mark positions with guide lines/tape
4/ pure redux on bond areas in shell, redux/flox on flanges of cockpit module (thicker
where appropriate) - spread shell slightly when dropping module in: went in with
no
fuss, took about 10 minutes to settle into position, another hour to clean up the
ooze...
Total time from mixing redux to going to the pub - about 2 1/2 hours - 1/2 hour
was
standing there going ooh aah....
No big deal if you are prepared - 2 people essential, 3 or 4 would be nice.
Might be able to find a pic - not that it shows much.....
good luck!
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paddy Clarke" <paddyclarke(at)lineone.net> |
Hi Everyone,
Has anyone else tried to use metal sheathed teflon hose
for the oil return pipe under the Rotax?.
Following the thread on the web site, I decided to try
and source some suitable hose and found some that sounded just right [ spec.
to 232Deg C.,
103Bar operating pressure] at a local Aeroquip supplier. This has to be
swaged onto the fittings at each end, so they tried to source fittings that
matched the Rotax ones, but with limited success. Although the threads
matched, they were for higher pressure applications, so the walls were
thicker resulting in a smaller bore.
In the end I got them to swage the teflon hose onto my
supplied fittings, and it looked good. There were two problems though.
Firstly the hose won't twist at all, so the angles of the fittings have to
be very accurately set before swageing. Secondly the hose is quite stiff
and although the min bend radius is quoted as 165mm, which should be tight
enough, the hose tends to go quite lumpy and out of shape as it is fed
through the tight spaces. These lumps and and slight kinks don't go away
when the hose is straightened.
Does anyone know if this is likely to be a problem under
the temperatures and pressures of normal operation?. Is it going to get
worse with the vibration?. Is the flow going to be at all restricted?
Many Thanks,
Paddy Clarke # 404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: bonding in the cockpit module |
I found it convenient to add a kitchen cabinet type handle to the top of the
tunnel about 2 inches back from the front flange. This to simplify lowering
the seat module into place. The handle remained there until cutout of the
firewall allowed access to the screws to remove it.
We had 3 people involved to mix and spread the Redux. Then a couple neighbors
came over to augment the work force to 5 temporarily while installing the
seat module. One person held the front handle plus one at each rear corner of
the seat module. Two helpers spread the canoe sides while the seat module was
lowered into place.
Cleanup of the Redux which extruded was memorable for the mess involved - it
had begun to set up by the time the seat module was completely secured and
became difficult to remove.
John N44EU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
| Subject: | ing cables to the instrument panel |
Hi All,
I was wondering what folks were doing for cable routing from the back of the
fuselage forward to the instrument panel. Could some of you share with me
your ideas.
Thanks, Paul
Builder 363
http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JLW <jeffw(at)Telebyte.net> |
| Subject: | ileron hinge rivets... |
Hello all...
I've begun working on the placing the hinges on the aileron. I've
run into a situation. The hinge rivets on the trailing edge end up very
near the base of the V shaped are where the hinges are being installed.
(Pg. 7-7) There is room enough (depth wise) for the hinges once
installed and compressed, but there is not enough room for them prior to
compression. In other words, the rivets on the trailing edge side of
the hinge cannot be shoved all the way in their respective holes because
the rivet bottoms out before it is fully seated.
So, I'm trying to figure out the best way to get around this
problem. It seems to be something one cannot 'get around' but something
to deal with. The only thing I can see to do would be to drill slightly
into the area of the V that the rivets run into. The only problem with
that is will be necessary to shove some epoxy into the 1/8" holes. I
think the depth of these little 1/8" holes would also be around 1/8".
So, we're not talking about much.
Am I the only one to have encountered this? Or, is it a 'normal'
situation dealt with such as I have suggested? Does someone have a
different or better way to solve this?
Jeff A191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | XS Aileron hinge rivets... |
Hi! Jeff
As a Mk 1 builder In My Humble Opinion.....
Your solution sound good, Only use a FLOX MIX NOT JUST EPOXY and pop the
rivet whilst wet
Lets face it you aren't going to get the rivets in any other way !
Regards
Bob Harrison Kit 337 G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of JLW
Sent: 14 January 2001 19:15
Subject: XS Aileron hinge rivets...
Hello all...
I've begun working on the placing the hinges on the aileron. I've
run into a situation. The hinge rivets on the trailing edge end up very
near the base of the V shaped are where the hinges are being installed.
(Pg. 7-7) There is room enough (depth wise) for the hinges once
installed and compressed, but there is not enough room for them prior to
compression. In other words, the rivets on the trailing edge side of
the hinge cannot be shoved all the way in their respective holes because
the rivet bottoms out before it is fully seated.
So, I'm trying to figure out the best way to get around this
problem. It seems to be something one cannot 'get around' but something
to deal with. The only thing I can see to do would be to drill slightly
into the area of the V that the rivets run into. The only problem with
that is will be necessary to shove some epoxy into the 1/8" holes. I
think the depth of these little 1/8" holes would also be around 1/8".
So, we're not talking about much.
Am I the only one to have encountered this? Or, is it a 'normal'
situation dealt with such as I have suggested? Does someone have a
different or better way to solve this?
Jeff A191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Routing cables to the instrument panel |
<>
Paul,
my standard europa fin antenna cable and the transponder cable come through some
lightweight oval conduit up the port side, both then plug into sockets mounted
under the port side panel.
Trim servo cables, strobe and capacitance fuel gauge cables come up the starboard
side, same type of conduit, but are taken to the firewall and through into
the engine compartment.
Fuel pump cables up the inside of the tunnel, through the firewall into the engine
compartment too.
With all cables requiring connection to the panel now in the engine compartment,
you only need one multi-plug to bring them all neatly back through the firewall
and into the panel itself. I used a zip type push plug with a ring connector
that screws the two halves together and locks with a nice click to it.
chus,
dave
g-bxum
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Routing cables to the instrument panel |
Hi! Paul.
I used domestic box section plastic conduit , the type that has a lid, that
way you can do some "add too's " later !!!! You can bend it with a heat gun
quite easily I had two larger ones down the P1 side under the door cill ,
and a smaller section one on the starboard side. Then to route behind the
panel I used lots of the larger spiral wrap.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Kit 337
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Sent: 14 January 2001 03:35
Subject: Routing cables to the instrument panel
Hi All,
I was wondering what folks were doing for cable routing from the back of the
fuselage forward to the instrument panel. Could some of you share with me
your ideas.
Thanks, Paul
Builder 363
http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: XS Aileron hinge rivets... |
> I've begun working on the placing the hinges on the aileron. I've
>run into a situation. The hinge rivets on the trailing edge end up very
>near the base of the V shaped are where the hinges are being installed.
>(Pg. 7-7) There is room enough (depth wise) for the hinges once
>installed and compressed, but there is not enough room for them prior to
>compression.
I think we've all had this problem and got round it one way or
another. However, IMHO it is best to fit the hinges on first using skin
pins and let the flox cure with the hinges still fixed to the straight
edge, before pulling the rivets. This way you won't distort the hinges if
the flange is not perfectly flat. Less likely for resin to be squashed out
of the flox and into the hinge pins this way too.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing cables to the instrument panel |
Hi Paul,
One item which I found quite useful is some self-adhesive plastic wire channel
which has a snap cover. It comes in various sizes and can be found at <<
http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=32 >>.
Cheers, John
A099, N262WF
Paul McAllister wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I was wondering what folks were doing for cable routing from the back of the
> fuselage forward to the instrument panel. Could some of you share with me
> your ideas.
>
> Thanks, Paul
> Builder 363
> http://pma.obtero.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing cables to the instrument panel |
Paul,
I glassed in a piece of 1" lightweight plastic conduit under the door lip on
each side. It has the added advantage of making the lower door frame
stronger so when you slide in & out of the cockpit it won't crack.
To hold the wires in the tailcone Cliff found some of the lightweight peel
and stick plastic holders for cable ties. You just stick them on and then
run a cable tie through them - works great and is very light and easy to add
wires.
Later
Bob Jacobsen
A131
From: "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net>
>Subject: Routing cables to the instrument panel
>Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:34:54 -0600
>
>Hi All,
>
>I was wondering what folks were doing for cable routing from the back of
>the
>fuselage forward to the instrument panel. Could some of you share with me
>your ideas.
>
>Thanks, Paul
>Builder 363
>http://pma.obtero.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
We're putting the hinges on our XS ailerons. We cheated (lazy) and purchased
the prebuilt Stage 1 kit so the ailerons came precovered. We noticed that
the ailerons are 60.825 long measured along the hinge flange. The opening in
the wing is 60.5 long without leaving any clearance at either end of the
aileron. Are we supposed to cut off some of the aileron or how do we make
them fit in the openings? We're rather do surgery to the tip end as the root
close outs and their bolts are completed.
Thanks for all the help we get from this list.
Jim & Heather Butcher A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil return hose |
| From: | "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Why not use the banjo fitting that is supplied with the engine and cut
off the barb. Weld on a short length of hydraulic tubong (seamless
steel) and have it long enough to get from under the engine and muffler
and then reweld the barbed end on the tubing. Support it with a strap to
the engine fro vibration insulation. Then use the supplied tubing to
complete the run to the oil tank. That is the way I'm going to solve
the "fried oil line" problem. I will also use fire sleeve around the
pipe to keep the temps of the steel line low enough to allow it to keep
in spec. (around a max. of 190 to 200 deg. F.) This would sure solve
the problem. I'm glad Gary and I concur, as he and I spent a bit of time
going over the many small problems that we have solved our own way. I
cannot hardly wait untill my beast in to the air to try out my other
ideas. (40A alternator, cowl flaps, air exit naca vent on the back of
the a/c with a controlable flap to let air out at a controllable rate,
rudder trim that mounts inside the a/c and weighs 1#, using the Rotax
intake manifold with modifications to allow it to be used with the europa
mount-needs extensive mods-and moving the air pick-up down into the air
inlet for the turbo cavity below the oil tank.) By the way, only make
the steel pipe long enough to get it out from under the engine. Keep a
reasonable length flex line to the tank for vibration control
Jim A058
St. Petersburg Fl.
writes:
> Following on from the recent discussions on this subject, I have
> looked at
> my hoses which seem fine at the moment. However, it seems prudent
> to have
> some spare hose to hand. Unfortunately I cannot easily read the
> specification printed on the return hose, except that it says '13mm'
> and has
> a 'Burst Pressure' which is unreadable. This oil return hose also
> looks to
> be made of a slightly different material to the other oil hoses
> (these seem
> to have a more textured and less smooth feel). Are they all
> actually meant
> to be the same spec. and does anyone know the exact current
> specification of
> these hoses (diameters and temperature/pressure rating)?
>
> Was there a final conclusion to the best material for such a hose
> (Teflon,
> Silicon, rubber etc)?
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> David Cripps
> GBWJH
>
> The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
> info(at)avnet.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
Jim:
This must be pretty typical asboth my ailerons were the same way ans I
built them myself. I would suggest that you fit up your flaps and then
position your aileron in. After lining every thing up as good as possible
make judgement call as to which side to trim to give you the smallest gap
either at the wing tip or the flap interface. Just sand off a little at a
time as its alot easer than going back and having to add on. You may
want/have to take a little off each end to get the nicest fit. Remember
this is a custom job, fit. . . sand . . . fit . . etc.
Have fun
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: <PreDial(at)aol.com>
> Date: 1/14/01 6:53:03 PM
> Subject: Aileron Length
>
> Hi All,
>
> We're putting the hinges on our XS ailerons. We cheated (lazy) and
purchased
> the prebuilt Stage 1 kit so the ailerons came precovered. We noticed
that
> the ailerons are 60.825 long measured along the hinge flange. The
opening in
> the wing is 60.5 long without leaving any clearance at either end of the
> aileron. Are we supposed to cut off some of the aileron or how do we
make
> them fit in the openings? We're rather do surgery to the tip end as the
root
> close outs and their bolts are completed.
>
> Thanks for all the help we get from this list.
>
> Jim & Heather Butcher A185
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Length |
Hi Steve,
Do not make the fit to the flaps too tight as the wings will deflect in
flight and cause them to touch. I had to file mine for clearence after
the first flight.
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
Steve Hagar schrieb:
>
> Jim:
>
> This must be pretty typical asboth my ailerons were the same way ans I
> built them myself. I would suggest that you fit up your flaps and then
> position your aileron in. After lining every thing up as good as possible
> make judgement call as to which side to trim to give you the smallest gap
> either at the wing tip or the flap interface. Just sand off a little at a
> time as its alot easer than going back and having to add on. You may
> want/have to take a little off each end to get the nicest fit. Remember
> this is a custom job, fit. . . sand . . . fit . . etc.
>
> Have fun
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <PreDial(at)aol.com>
> > Date: 1/14/01 6:53:03 PM
> > Subject: Aileron Length
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We're putting the hinges on our XS ailerons. We cheated (lazy) and
> purchased
> > the prebuilt Stage 1 kit so the ailerons came precovered. We noticed
> that
> > the ailerons are 60.825 long measured along the hinge flange. The
> opening in
> > the wing is 60.5 long without leaving any clearance at either end of the
> > aileron. Are we supposed to cut off some of the aileron or how do we
> make
> > them fit in the openings? We're rather do surgery to the tip end as the
> root
> > close outs and their bolts are completed.
> >
> > Thanks for all the help we get from this list.
> >
> > Jim & Heather Butcher A185
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | HLP - Ailerons again! |
Message from Tony Renshaw renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au
***************************
> John,
> Just remember that the glass fibres individually, whether when viewed in
> plan view or side elevation, must not experience a deviation of more than
> 1/25!! This is all you need to know to maintain strength. So for your
> aileron problem I would think it best to countour the foam such that the
> top skin dips down and then mates nicely with the trailing edge of the
> first skin. Dips are OK!! They are structurally strong and easily filled.
> You could go down the other path of filling with dry micro but just
> remember to key sand it for the skin when you cover it up. This is also
> easy and maintains the imperative rule "1:25 MAX". Don't forget this at any
> stage and whatever fudges you make will be OK. Dont worry about the
> threads. Pull out the ones you can and forget the others. After a closeout,
> filler and paint it isn't worth the time!! I say this from someone who has
> swetted about these things too. We have to maintain a momentum similar to
> what a professional would do if contracted to build our kits behind our
> backs. Would these omitions etc compromise strength? If not, keep going.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw(#0236)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | o and transponders |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Patrick"
***************************************************
Guess I'd better re-introduce myself since I've not been on this group for a
couple of years. Built kit 69 G-PATZ mono classic and been happily flying
for a bit over a year. Not as much as I'd hoped but then again optimism was
always my weakness.
And now for my request for help. Can anyone recommend someone in U.K. who
can put the smoke back in a Garmin Transponder. After only 70 hours it
decided to give up and fry a couple of components on the board. Quite upset
the best weekend's flying weather for ages! Still in spite of the expensive
scent had a great weekend's flying that was much needed. Withdrawal symptoms
were beginning to hurt.
Any advice or info would be very much appreciated
Patrick Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
> After lining every thing up as good as possible
>make judgement call as to which side to trim to give you the smallest gap
>either at the wing tip or the flap interface. Just sand off a little at a
>time as its alot easer than going back and having to add on. You may
>want/have to take a little off each end to get the nicest fit. Remember
>this is a custom job, fit. . . sand . . . fit . . etc.
> > Are we supposed to cut off some of the aileron or how do we
>make them fit in the openings? We're rather do surgery to the tip end
>as the
>root close outs and their bolts are completed.
Don't forget also, that the flap moves outboard as it is raised due to the
geometry of the dihedral. The clearance between flap tip and aileron root
needs to be checked with the plane rigged and the gear up.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing cables to the instrument panel |
The (optional) Europa supplied wiring harness has all power leads going
forward along the joint between the upper and lower fuselage moldings, so I
have routed all antenna cables in the corresponding location on the port
side.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Christoph Both" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
| Subject: | er forward and old engine installation kit |
Dear Europa builders:
I am building the styro MK-1 version and by far prefer the old
engine installation before the XS cowl came along. Can you please
comment ont he following questins:
1) I like to move the rudder pedals as much as possible forward.
With the old engine installation I understand that the engine might
be a bit lower and closer to the firewall than with the XS. Has
someone moved the pedals forward and how much is possible
before you hit the engine?
2) It seems that EUROPA has ceased to produce a MK-1 "classic"
engine installation kit, mainly because they cannot produce the
two radiators as required. Besides the notion that some of the
many MK-1 builders might require possible replacement in the
future the old kit is not offered any more. Is someone considering
going XS firewall forward and selling your old kit to me? Please let
me know, reasonable offers accepted.
Thanks,
Christoph Both UK #223, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Rudder forward and old engine installation kit |
Hi! Christopher,
I have top and bottom Mk 1 Cowls available since my a/c is Jabiru way ! I
haven't taken particular care how I've stored them but they are quite tidy
and unused. Make a reasonable offer and arrange the carrier and you are
welcome.
Regarding your rudder pedal question I very much doubt you can get any
further forward than that dimension in the manual. Just measured mine to be
3.75" centre line aft of the inside of the footwell. However I know Europa
extended some footwells by about 2" but I think they were experimenting
with some heel toe brakes /rudder pedals on a trike and the extension was
for clearance of the additional mechanism forward of the rudder pedal. You
didn't make it clear if your fuselage is Mk1 or XS if it's XS then you may
have the extended foot wells (above) and therefore you would need to canvas
Neville or Andy's opinion at Europa with regards to engine clearance.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Europa /Jabiru 3300)
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Dr. Christoph Both
Sent: 15 January 2001 16:26
Subject: Rudder forward and old engine installation kit
Dear Europa builders:
I am building the styro MK-1 version and by far prefer the old
engine installation before the XS cowl came along. Can you please
comment ont he following questins:
1) I like to move the rudder pedals as much as possible forward.
With the old engine installation I understand that the engine might
be a bit lower and closer to the firewall than with the XS. Has
someone moved the pedals forward and how much is possible
before you hit the engine?
2) It seems that EUROPA has ceased to produce a MK-1 "classic"
engine installation kit, mainly because they cannot produce the
two radiators as required. Besides the notion that some of the
many MK-1 builders might require possible replacement in the
future the old kit is not offered any more. Is someone considering
going XS firewall forward and selling your old kit to me? Please let
me know, reasonable offers accepted.
Thanks,
Christoph Both UK #223, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ranger tank - tip |
For those of you using the long range tank or those considering fitting the same
Hi folks!
you might be interested in the following mod.
The extra tank feed is only by siphon so if the main tank is not empty then the
extra tank will always have a cosiderable amount of fuel in it making it not so
convenient to use for short periods.
Many of us received last year a higher capacity fuel pump from Europa. I have
fitted the old pump in the feed line from the extra tank to the main tank.
After flight (or during flight) just pump the remaining fuel from the extra into
the main tank and take the empty tank with you!!
I do not know if you UK guys will need a PFA mod for something like this.
Best regards
Barry Tennant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
| From: | "Garry Stout" <gstout(at)us.ibm.com> |
01/15/2001 01:07:42 PM
Hi folks, regarding long range fuel tanks, has anyone with a trigear come
up with a long range fuel tank? As you know, the space for the monowheel
long range tank is take up with the main gear leg structure.
Regards,
Garry
N4220S
(813) 878-3929
FAX (813) 878-5651, Internet ID Garrys(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
Interesting and practical Barry,
In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation to
endurance.
The solution is generally found in the application of a rather primitive but
effective,
empty plastic soft drink bottle purchased from the local supermarket.
Accuracy is vital when used. The embarrasment factor is high, especially on
landing
at a busy airfield.
...... just excuse the contents as a rather obscure beverage that proved
distasteful and
dump in the nearest drain soon after landing.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tennant" <Tennant@t-online.de>
Subject: Long ranger tank - tip
For those of you using the long range tank or those considering fitting the
same
Hi folks!
you might be interested in the following mod.
The extra tank feed is only by siphon so if the main tank is not empty then
the
extra tank will always have a cosiderable amount of fuel in it making it not
so
convenient to use for short periods.
Many of us received last year a higher capacity fuel pump from Europa. I
have
fitted the old pump in the feed line from the extra tank to the main tank.
After flight (or during flight) just pump the remaining fuel from the extra
into
the main tank and take the empty tank with you!!
I do not know if you UK guys will need a PFA mod for something like this.
Best regards
Barry Tennant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | pective on oil pipes. |
On only has to look up the thermal conductivity tables to see that if you
need to resist incoming radiation/convection, rubber/plastic etc. is a
non-starter compared with metals.
Take an area or 10cm x 1cm (typical of the area exposed to the exhaust pipe)
and a wall thickness of 1mm, a steel pipe would develop only 14 deg.C across
its wall for every incident kW. As 1kW is an overestimate of what really
arrives (we only have 60kw max. from engine and most of that is either
defeating drag or or going out of the radiatior) there is never going to be
any thermal problem (apart from some local rise in oil temperature before it
reaches the oil cooler and goes the way of all heat ).
By contrast rubbers are 500 times worse and will fry under such intensity.
Large wall thickness too. Copper is 5.5 times, Al. 3.3 times better than
steel.
There is no need for elaborate thermal calculations of the arrival energy at
the pipe.
A thermocouple (or simpler, blobs of Thermal paints) can give advance warning
of such problems.
Since reporting in-flight failure of the original system in April 99 (the
first ?) I have run with a metal pipe between rubber end pieces at the cool
ends, with no deterioration.
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
In a message dated 15/01/2001 20:55:25 GMT Standard Time,
alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk writes:
<< In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation to
endurance. >>
Did you consider a funnel/pipe to the floor ? Look for Europas with
vapour trails.
The hole also comes in handy for flour bomb releasing. I once won a prize
for the furthest miss when the slipstream blew it out before take-off (the
flour that is (:-))).
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Lamb" <Steve.Lamb(at)dial.pipex.com> |
I am a slow builder of kit 244 and have much appreciated the
hints and tips on this forum. However I would like to get
flying sooner than I can finish my example, therefore I
would like to purchase a tricycle Europa with current permit
to fly.
I promise a good home. So please e-mail me or telephone +44
(0)1892 835049
Or write Nettlestead Lodge
Maidstone Road
Paddock Wood
Kent TN12 6DA
Regards Steve Lamb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Aileron Length |
>The flap should not move outboard as it is raised. If anything, there
>should be a slight movement inboard as the hinge centres are progressively
>further from the wing the further inboard you go.
>
>If the flaps are found to move outboard during retraction it is because
>there is inadequate clearance between the flap root and the operating tube
>which runs through the fuselage.
>Ensure that the flaps and this tube don't come into contact with each
>other until the flaps are up or within 5 degrees down maximum.
>Andy Draper
Thanks Andy, absolutely right. Wooly thinking I guess. My incomplete
thought was the flap will move out, but only if the flap cross tube is too
long. IOW adjust the length of the flap tube, not the flap.
Sorry folks!.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham(at)intercept.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
> ----- Original Message -----
> In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation
to
> endurance.
> ...... just excuse the contents as a rather obscure beverage that
proved
> distasteful and dump in the nearest drain soon after landing.
>
> Alan
For God's sake man ....don't throw it away.
This stuff has been sold for years in the States as Budwiser Lite!
Nigel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <EuropaChris(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: Long ranger tank - tip] |
Hear, hear!! Ditto for Coors Light, Miller Lite, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
Lite beer is a cruel joke. Fortunately, living in Wisconsin has its benefits
other than lots of snow and good cheese. Good BEER! We have no shortage of
local breweries that make some of the finest beers in the world, one of my
newest favorites is the New Glarus Brewing Co.
Ahhh, a taste of summer in Wisconsin: Bratwurst on the grill, with some early
sweet corn roasting in the husk next to the brats, and a cold glass of
handcrafted beer. Top it off with some ice cream for dessert. YUMMY!
I just keep telling myself - summer is coming, summer is coming....
Sorry about the OT post. I couldn't resist Nigel's comments.
Chris
"Nigel Graham" wrote:
> For God's sake man ....don't throw it away.
> This stuff has been sold for years in the States as Budwiser Lite!
>
> Nigel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulliz(at)cix.co.uk (Paul & Liz Atkinson) |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
In article
<000c01c07f2a$6108e220$67e81f3e@AlanStewart>,
alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Stewart) wrote:
> Interesting and practical Barry,
>
> In my personal experience, I've found a far more
pressing limitation to
> endurance.
>
> The solution is generally found in the application
of a rather
> primitive but
> effective,
> empty plastic soft drink bottle purchased from the
local supermarket.
>
> Accuracy is vital when used. The embarrasment factor
is high,
> especially on
> landing
> at a busy airfield.
>
> ...... just excuse the contents as a rather obscure
beverage that proved
> distasteful and
> dump in the nearest drain soon after landing.
>
> Alan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tennant" <Tennant@t-online.de>
> Subject: Long ranger tank - tip
>
>
> For those of you using the long range tank or those
considering fitting
> the
> same
> Hi folks!
>
> you might be interested in the following mod.
>
> The extra tank feed is only by siphon so if the main
tank is not empty
> then
> the
> extra tank will always have a cosiderable amount of
fuel in it making
> it not
> so
> convenient to use for short periods.
>
> Many of us received last year a higher capacity fuel
pump from Europa. I
> have
> fitted the old pump in the feed line from the extra
tank to the main
> tank.
>
> After flight (or during flight) just pump the
remaining fuel from the
> extra
> into
> the main tank and take the empty tank with you!!
>
> I do not know if you UK guys will need a PFA mod for
something like
> this.
>
> Best regards
>
> Barry Tennant
I suppose for those of us with low bladder capacity
the answer would be to buy two tanks one connected to
the fuel system and the other.....
Paul Atkinson
ps best to make sure that they cant be connected the
rong way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Long ranger tank - tip |
Paul/Liz
This proposal is nothing to do with "The Mile High Club has it ? For a while
my imagination got the better of me then I remember needing to get my arms
down to top up the trike brakes by having the rest of my body upside down on
the P1 seat. ! Really, I'm too old for these kind of antics......... which
ever ...... prefer some comfort these days !!!!!!
Regards to all
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (16 hours complete, awaiting PFA final permit!)
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Paul & Liz Atkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi all;
It seems a long time ago that I put my deposit/order in for my new monowheel XS
kit. It was November after I attended the workshop out in Corona, California
taught by Kim Prout.
Since then I've put in a beautiful, gleaming white floor (by Hard Deck Coatings),
have installed a new 200 amp panel, have installed additional light circuits
and finally installed additional electrical circuits.
I've been accumulating tools mostly off of E-bay. The ones I have left to buy
are a mystery to me...no idea what they are by the name on the tool list given
me. I trust it'll become more apparent what I need once I actually start building.
Any ideas on what I might do to pass the time awaiting my March arrival of my "newborn"??
Enjoying this web site....have printed out many letters describing solutions to
certain problem procedures. Thanks to all...hope to meet you in the upcoming
months and years
Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <gopack(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
Grahamclk(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 15/01/2001 20:55:25 GMT Standard Time,
> alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk writes:
>
> << In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation to
> endurance. >>
>
> Did you consider a funnel/pipe to the floor ? Look for Europas with
> vapour trails.
Yet another thing to have to worry about in case of a gear-up landing!
I'd be sure to add a line to my checklist about stowing all delicate
items before entering the pattern.
Steve G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Long ranger tank - tip |
...and to which delicate item do you refer?
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Steve & Eileen Genotte
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 1:25 PM
Cc: alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk; Tennant(at)t-online.de; europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: Re: Long ranger tank - tip
Grahamclk(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 15/01/2001 20:55:25 GMT Standard Time,
> alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk writes:
>
> << In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation to
> endurance. >>
>
> Did you consider a funnel/pipe to the floor ? Look for Europas with
> vapour trails.
Yet another thing to have to worry about in case of a gear-up landing!
I'd be sure to add a line to my checklist about stowing all delicate
items before entering the pattern.
Steve G.
________________________________________________________________________________
200 AMPS!!! Are you using 7.5kW xenon searchlight lamps for illumination?
I know its a little cooler at the beach than where I am but you certainly
can't be contemplating heating your shop electrically (heck, if you actually
use all that power you'll need a/c instead just to overcome the waste heat).
But seriously, whatever are you contemplating?
I hope that nice new white floor is NOT in your soon to be Europa workshop.
My (plain old concrete) garage, er, workshop floor is looking so shabby
after countless epoxy drippings that I need to do something to improve its
looks once the project is completed. It no longer looks good enough to park
cars on it. At least with the monowheel you won't be using Bondo to hold
fixturing (for the main gear installation) to the concrete - that left two
large "dimples" where the Bondo bonded much better than the Europa manual
suggests.
As for passing time until March, I've got this mostly complete XS Tri-Gear
in my "hanger" in Irvine, and you are welcome to hone your building skills
anytime you'd like.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of PBoulet(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:19 PM
Cc: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
Subject: RE: New member
Hi all;
It seems a long time ago that I put my deposit/order in for my new monowheel
XS kit. It was November after I attended the workshop out in Corona,
California taught by Kim Prout.
Since then I've put in a beautiful, gleaming white floor (by Hard Deck
Coatings), have installed a new 200 amp panel, have installed additional
light circuits and finally installed additional electrical circuits.
I've been accumulating tools mostly off of E-bay. The ones I have left to
buy are a mystery to me...no idea what they are by the name on the tool list
given me. I trust it'll become more apparent what I need once I actually
start building.
Any ideas on what I might do to pass the time awaiting my March arrival of
my "newborn"??
Enjoying this web site....have printed out many letters describing solutions
to certain problem procedures. Thanks to all...hope to meet you in the
upcoming months and years
Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <gopack(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
That's best left to the individual to decide, no? :-)
Steve G.
Rob Housman wrote:
>
> ...and to which delicate item do you refer?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Steve & Eileen Genotte
> Cc: alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk; Tennant(at)t-online.de; europa(at)avnet.co.uk
> Subject: Re: Long ranger tank - tip
>
> Grahamclk(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 15/01/2001 20:55:25 GMT Standard Time,
> > alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk writes:
> >
> > << In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation to
> > endurance. >>
> >
> > Did you consider a funnel/pipe to the floor ? Look for Europas with
> > vapour trails.
>
> Yet another thing to have to worry about in case of a gear-up landing!
> I'd be sure to add a line to my checklist about stowing all delicate
> items before entering the pattern.
>
> Steve G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Davis" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: Long ranger tank - tip] |
Don't the brats muck up the grill with all that fat a skin dripping all over
the place? You Americans sure like your white goods on the large side. I'd
have to cut my brats into tiny pieces to get them any where near the grill.
Jerry
LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Beck <EuropaChris(at)netscape.net>
; Tennant
Subject: Re: [Re: Long ranger tank - tip]
> Hear, hear!! Ditto for Coors Light, Miller Lite, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
>
> Lite beer is a cruel joke. Fortunately, living in Wisconsin has its
benefits
> other than lots of snow and good cheese. Good BEER! We have no shortage
of
> local breweries that make some of the finest beers in the world, one of my
> newest favorites is the New Glarus Brewing Co.
>
> Ahhh, a taste of summer in Wisconsin: Bratwurst on the grill, with some
early
> sweet corn roasting in the husk next to the brats, and a cold glass of
> handcrafted beer. Top it off with some ice cream for dessert. YUMMY!
>
> I just keep telling myself - summer is coming, summer is coming....
>
> Sorry about the OT post. I couldn't resist Nigel's comments.
>
> Chris
>
>
> "Nigel Graham" wrote:
>
> > For God's sake man ....don't throw it away.
> > This stuff has been sold for years in the States as Budwiser Lite!
> >
> > Nigel
> >
> >
>
>
http://home.netscape.com/webmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
This industry is rampant with rookies and ignance.
So many obvious things under looked over such a long time.
A qualified designer should have at least an American A&P, or better yet,
the British 2 year version. (I can't remember what its called. Damn fine it
is.)
Still, we endeavor to persevere.
The oh-so-weenie choice of cheap oil hose should be a warning.
Try to learn about this stuff for yourself.
Books are cheap.
Advice is cheaper still.
I don't have a Rotax, so I don't know.
(Actually, as an A&P, I do know)
However,
High voltage breakers require that high voltage be used for correct servo
action at rated amps,
or more precisely, rated watts.
A finer point to be sure, but there everywhere.
Like leaving a breaker out after it pops in flight.
Like beer without rice in it.
imho
3
Equivalent take off to landing ratios forever
Nic xs145
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulliz(at)cix.co.uk (Paul & Liz Atkinson) |
| Subject: | Long ranger tank - tip |
In article <000c01c07ff2$9daabf00$12e286d4@e6n8y8>,
ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk (Bob.Harrison) wrote:
> This proposal is nothing to do with "The Mile High Club
has it ?
Bob
Of course not! Various medical conditions and lack of
imagination stopped such a thing entering my mind. But
good luck to anyone who wants to give it a try. Any
volunteers?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Tennant , europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
Nigel Graham wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > In my personal experience, I've found a far more pressing limitation
> to
> > endurance.
> > ...... just excuse the contents as a rather obscure beverage that
> proved
> > distasteful and dump in the nearest drain soon after landing.
> >
> > Alan
>
> For God's sake man ....don't throw it away.
> This stuff has been sold for years in the States as Budwiser Lite!
>
>
Only when it's been watered down........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| Subject: | Re: Long ranger tank - tip |
"Bob.Harrison" wrote:
>
> Paul/Liz
> This proposal is nothing to do with "The Mile High Club has it ? For a while
> my imagination got the better of me then I remember needing to get my arms
> down to top up the trike brakes by having the rest of my body upside down on
> the P1 seat. ! Really, I'm too old for these kind of antics.........
I'd like to point out that the rules of the mile high club include that that you
are
witnessed by another (non participating) member of the crew, and that requires
a 3
seater (or at least 3 occupants) as a minimum..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Meessage is from Ferg Kyle.
***********************************************************
Paul:
I wish I'd done that. This is of course to confirm with your
Authority that you have done 51% of tye build. The proof is (1) photos of
the progress, (2) a log giving details and dates and (3) a galaxy of epoxy
and associated blobs on the floor, each annotated as to chapter and page,
plus date, as samples and proof of site.
I call that planning.
Happy landings!
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | pa now in Squadron Service |
A nice picture of G-KITS has been taken by Hal Perkins and is in the
Miscellaneous Items section of the List Support Website at
http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/europa.htm
John Cliff
Europa Club List Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: New member] |
Sounds like all this might be a bit of an overkill in workshop preparation.
The floor does not have to be impeccably clean. As long as it is reasonably
clean, and you can walk around the shop without having to trip over things,
that should suffice. A 200 Amp panel is definitely way too much. My entire
house is serviced by a 150 Amp panel. The Europa does not call for anything
more than light power tools. However, do install lots of lights in the shop. I
installed five flourescent fixtures, and wired in a 20 Amp circuit with a few
extra outlets. You also need a large sturdy table. An 8x4 should work well. I
made a fabulously stable table for under $50. If you want the details, send me
an email. My recommendation about tools would be to wait until you need the
tools. Buy them as you go. It is hard to know what tools you might need too
far ahead of time. Find a local hardware store (Lowes, Home Depot) and get to
know them. Don't go overboard on tools. You can end up spending way too much.
Some tools you might only need once, and you should borrow these from others.
If you are killing time waiting for your kit to arrive, I would recommend that
you buy the "Composite Practice Kit" from Aircraft Spruce and spend a few days
with it. It is highly educational.
PBoulet(at)aol.com wrote:
Hi all;
It seems a long time ago that I put my deposit/order in for my new monowheel
XS kit. It was November after I attended the workshop out in Corona,
California taught by Kim Prout.
Since then I've put in a beautiful, gleaming white floor (by Hard Deck
Coatings), have installed a new 200 amp panel, have installed additional light
circuits and finally installed additional electrical circuits.
I've been accumulating tools mostly off of E-bay. The ones I have left to buy
are a mystery to me...no idea what they are by the name on the tool list given
me. I trust it'll become more apparent what I need once I actually start
building.
Any ideas on what I might do to pass the time awaiting my March arrival of my
"newborn"??
Enjoying this web site....have printed out many letters describing solutions
to certain problem procedures. Thanks to all...hope to meet you in the
upcoming months and years
Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | tifying Alu and Steel parts |
All:
I'm perusing my pack of parts, preparing to properly proof them against
corrosion (sorry, couldn't keep up the alliteration), and wonder how one
determines the difference between Aluminum, Steel, and Stainless Steel.
Aside from the obvious weight difference between Alu and Steel, there
appears to be a distinct grain to the surface of steel parts, but not a
clear difference between regular and Stainless steel.
In the tail kit, for example:
XTW12 - aluminum, by weight and lack of grain
XTW09 - steel, regular? by weight and grain
TP16 - steel, but Steve G. sez it's stainless
XA2 - aluminum
Any hints?
Thanks,
Shaun Simpkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
Assuming you do not want to use any quick and dirty chemical tricks,
here's how to distinguish...
In my kit (a tri-gear, so I've not seen any tailwheel components) all Al
(most, if not all, is 6061 alloy) and steel (4130 is the only steel
alloy used) tubes had mill markings to identify the material. This is
the surest way to determine what's what. If you are lacking clear
markings, then....
If its bright and shiny (or at least clean looking) it's either Al or
SS, because all of the 4130 is dark, almost black. If there is any
doubt use a magnet since neither the Al nor the SS used in the kit is
magnetic. As I recall the only SS tube in the kit is the tailplane
torque tube (not having my inventory handy at the office I can't check
but it is probably TP16) as are its associated components. If there are
other SS parts, then note that Al has both lower density and lower
Young's modulus so it will feel lighter than SS and will be less stiff
in bending. The color and luster are also different, so find the
longest fattest piece of metal tube in your inventory and note its
appearance. It's Al. So are all of the bell cranks.
Once you have identified one piece of each material you will be able to
identify all others because the appearance of each metal is unique.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Subject: Identifying Alu and Steel parts
All:
I'm perusing my pack of parts, preparing to properly proof them
against corrosion (sorry, couldn't keep up the alliteration), and wonder
how one determines the difference between Aluminum, Steel, and Stainless
Steel. Aside from the obvious weight difference between Alu and Steel,
there appears to be a distinct grain to the surface of steel parts, but
not a clear difference between regular and Stainless steel.
In the tail kit, for example:
XTW12 - aluminum, by weight and lack of grain
XTW09 - steel, regular? by weight and grain
TP16 - steel, but Steve G. sez it's stainless
XA2 - aluminum
Any hints?
Thanks,
Shaun Simpkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
Dig that nice floor.
I work on one and it's 'most excellent'.
I can find a circlip or tiny anything on it.
Smooth, flat, hard
I haven't spilled resin on it yet, but hope it will separate by modest
means.
Rubber standing pads are good for around the central table
Very comfy.
Be happy!
nic xs145
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RE: New member |
Great advice Shaun....thanks for the suggestions
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: New member |
tennant@t-online.de
Hi Rob;
Thanks for your reply....was feeling a little lonely! As for the 200 amps I
needed to upgrade my old 70 amp panel so this bigger panel has room to spare!
As far as the white garage floor I installed it with expensive material from
a company in Texas called "Hard Coat or Hard Deck" They have a display ad in
Trade a Plane if you want to look them up. They guarantee the concrete
underneath will chip before the coating comes off. And even if it did, the
reflective quality of white is fabulous and if it gets damaged so what!
Thanks too for your invite to Irvine. I'm in a cast at the moment (torn
tendon) so won't be going anywhere for awhile....just hope I heal up before
my XS arrives in March.
Regards,
Paul Boulet
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [RE: New member] |
tennant@t-online.de
Thanks for the info Andrew. I'll definitely buy the composite practice kit
even though we got some practice in the Sport Air workshop. I'll also put
off buying the remainder of my tools until it appears I actually need them.
Finally, the 200 amp panel was to upgrade my entire home...not just the
garage.
Thanks again for your comments,
Paul Boulet
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shop floor surfacing |
Thanks for the happy words. Not many seem to realize the advantage of a
white shop floor. Not to mention I probably have 30 hours of work into
prepping and installing this 4 layer processed coating.
Good news too....I already own the rubber cushiion floor pads and you're
right...they do wonders for standing at long time intervals
Regards,
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Moyle <jmoyle(at)epo.org> |
| Subject: | ing panel glueing |
Having recently completed this task here are some tips that will help
avoid some possible problems.
In the manual is a clear method of applying weights to the panel while
it is glueing. What the manual doesn't say is how much glue to apply to
the respective parts. After applying generous (I thought ) amounts to
both wing ribs and the panel and letting it cure there appeared to be
large gaps (as much as 2-3mm) between the panel and ribs in places. It
was possible to locate these gaps by pushing hard with the thumb on the
panel along the position of the ribs. The fix suggested by the factory
is to drill holes along the rib positions and inject redux into the gap.
Drilling the holes confirmed the size of the gaps. Luckily the position
of the ribs was marked on the top surface of the panel.
Obviously it is best to avoid this situation. At the factory they have
done so many wings that experience has taught them how much glue to
apply.
Clearly just applying weights to force the panel to contact the ribs
would just distort the smooth surface requiring bricks worth of filler.
My suggestion is to test for the existence of gaps in a dry run and
apply the glue accordingly. Another possibility is to use a string to
detect the low ribs. Prehaps there are other suggestions.
Jonathan & Carla (kit 330 - Netherlands)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Shop floor surfacing |
Hi! All
I seem to be getting multiple copies again ! Is anyone else ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of PBoulet(at)aol.com
Sent: 18 January 2001 07:25
Subject: Re: Shop floor surfacing
Thanks for the happy words. Not many seem to realize the advantage of a
white shop floor. Not to mention I probably have 30 hours of work into
prepping and installing this 4 layer processed coating.
Good news too....I already own the rubber cushiion floor pads and you're
right...they do wonders for standing at long time intervals
Regards,
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shop floor surfacing |
Yep - about half the time.
ss
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Shop floor surfacing
> Hi! All
> I seem to be getting multiple copies again ! Is anyone else ?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
>. Aside from the obvious weight difference between Alu and Steel, there
>appears to be a distinct grain to the surface of steel parts, but not a
>clear difference between regular and Stainless steel.
The only SS bits are the TP5 & 6. The TP4 torque tube is 4130, but plated,
SS is not strong enough. It is worth trying not to scratch the plating , it
will allow rusting to start. Use a magnet as suggested, to identify 4130
or ally.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leisch, Steven" <Leisch(at)CSD.com> |
| Subject: | Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
As an add-on to this question, what are the preferred methods of corrosion
protection for the various metal types?
SL, A208
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaun Simpkins [SMTP:shauns(at)hevanet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 4:16 PM
> To: europa(at)avnet.co.uk
> Subject: Identifying Alu and Steel parts
>
> All:
>
> I'm perusing my pack of parts, preparing to properly proof them against
> corrosion (sorry, couldn't keep up the alliteration), and wonder how one
> determines the difference between Aluminum, Steel, and Stainless Steel.
> Aside from the obvious weight difference between Alu and Steel, there
> appears to be a distinct grain to the surface of steel parts, but not a
> clear difference between regular and Stainless steel.
> In the tail kit, for example:
> XTW12 - aluminum, by weight and lack of grain
> XTW09 - steel, regular? by weight and grain
> FL7 - aluminum?
> TP16 - steel, but Steve G. sez it's stainless
> XA2 - aluminum
> Any hints?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shaun Simpkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
"Leisch, Steven" at "Jan 18, 2001 08:42:47 am"
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
> As an add-on to this question, what are the preferred methods of corrosion
> protection for the various metal types?
>
> SL, A208
On aluminum I used Alumiprep (an cleaner) and then Alodyne (a conversion
coating). I then painted it with primer to prevent the Alodyne coating from
being scratched. On steel I just used the primer after cleaning with alcohol
(which takes a little of the black coating off, so I made sure I didn't overdo
it). I did nothing for stainless steel.
Another option for aluminum is to have it anodized by a professional. You
have to make sure you get the correct type of anodizing, but I don't remember
which type.
The best primer for steel is zinc chromate, but this is toxic and difficult
to get, so I just used a regular metal primer. I have scratched it a couple
times, so I will have to clean those sections and reapply. What do people
recommend as a good, tough primer?
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
A newer kitbuilder than me! I've just bent people's ears on this subject,
which probably should be granted FAQ status. Thanks all. A single
paragraph in the builder's manual definitely allows for a "learning
experience". You should check back through the Europa Club archives, and
the Hints and Tips compendium. But this is what I've decided to do. Please
be aware that I am NOT an expert on the subject and am only presenting what
I've learned. BB members please chime in.
Aluminum parts to be wholly or partially bonded into the structure:
Alodining. Chemical conversion
process that improves the bond and has lower risk of debonding than scuff
sanding naked Alu. The surface needs to be thoroughly cleaned of the native
oxide. Alumprep and Alumiwash are both good possibilities, as is a good
scrubbing with an Ajax slurry. Folks who know have some real issues with
acid etch pretreatments.
Other Aluminum parts: Alodining, then painting. Some longer parts may need
to use the Thursby cap and slosh technique with epoxy primer or Zinc
Chromate/Zinc Oxide.
Steel parts: Many folks have had their parts plated. The part needs to be
baked after pretreatment to avoid embrittlement. Epoxy primer?
Stainless Steel: not sure. Just paint?
Shaun Simpkins
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leisch, Steven" <Leisch(at)CSD.com>
Subject: RE: Identifying Alu and Steel parts
> As an add-on to this question, what are the preferred methods of corrosion
> protection for the various metal types?
>
> SL, A208
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shaun Simpkins [SMTP:shauns(at)hevanet.com]
> > Subject: Identifying Alu and Steel parts
> >
> > All:
> >
> > I'm perusing my pack of parts, preparing to properly proof them against
> > corrosion (sorry, couldn't keep up the alliteration), and wonder how one
> > determines the difference between Aluminum, Steel, and Stainless Steel.
> > Aside from the obvious weight difference between Alu and Steel, there
> > appears to be a distinct grain to the surface of steel parts, but not a
> > clear difference between regular and Stainless steel.
> > In the tail kit, for example:
> > XTW12 - aluminum, by weight and lack of grain
> > XTW09 - steel, regular? by weight and grain
> > FL7 - aluminum?
> > TP16 - steel, but Steve G. sez it's stainless
> > XA2 - aluminum
> > Any hints?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shaun Simpkins
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
I can recommend powder coating for many of the metal parts, steel or
aluminium. It is not cheap but when done by a professional company, it
is very tough and almost indestructible. I have had to grind it off in
some places and it is hard work. Gloss finish is very good. There are
various powder choices but polyester is an all purpose finish usually
available in black, white and assorted other colours if desired.
Cheers, John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding in the cockpit module |
at "Jan 11, 2001 02:01:33 pm"
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
flying
> Trimming the extra material from the rear of the cockpit module is a very
> good idea. I blindly followed the manual only to realize when it was time
> to install the baggage compartment bulkhead that it was rather tedious to
> make the required cut after bonding (especially since some of it was bonded
> to the fuselage sides!)
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
How do you know where to trim here? This is the only place I couldn't find
any trim lines. I was planning on trimming it when I could put the top on
and be sure that I was cutting it right.
Brian
> You need to trim off a portion of the rear of the module which I don't
> believe is in the current manual yet. If this section is not trimmed before
> gluing, it will have to be trimmed later to put in the baggage compartment
> bulkhead. I can send you a picture of this area trimmed if you wish.
> I felt the same way about the spars clearance. Hopefully I won't discover a
> problem later.
> Good luck,
> Bill McClellan
> A164
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | bonding in the cockpit module |
Good question, but there is a very easy answer; I would have said the answer
is obvious but for the fact that it wasn't so obvious to me when I bonded
the cockpit module without trimming it. I did mutter "Duh!" to myself when
I realized what I had done (or, rather, not done).
The baggage compartment rear bulkhead zig-zag panel overlaps the
corresponding panel at the aft end of the cockpit module so the more or less
vertical part of the cockpit module must be removed by trimming it flush
with the top of the central tunnel. Because there is a corner radius from
the baggage compartment floor into the recesses in the cockpit module it
will be necessary to remove a slight bit more from the cockpit module, but
if you cut it flush you can trim the remainder later when you are ready to
bond in the baggage compartment bulkhead. If you really trust your
judgment, do a trial fit of the bulkhead into the cockpit module prior to
bonding the cockpit module into the canoe, and cut to fit at that stage.
Either way, if you examine the baggage compartment bulkhead it will become
quite clear what needs to be removed.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Brian Rauchfuss - PCD
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:00 PM
Cc: Bill McClellan; Europa; flying
Subject: Re: bonding in the cockpit module
> Trimming the extra material from the rear of the cockpit module is a very
> good idea. I blindly followed the manual only to realize when it was time
> to install the baggage compartment bulkhead that it was rather tedious to
> make the required cut after bonding (especially since some of it was
bonded
> to the fuselage sides!)
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
How do you know where to trim here? This is the only place I couldn't find
any trim lines. I was planning on trimming it when I could put the top on
and be sure that I was cutting it right.
Brian
> You need to trim off a portion of the rear of the module which I don't
> believe is in the current manual yet. If this section is not trimmed
before
> gluing, it will have to be trimmed later to put in the baggage compartment
> bulkhead. I can send you a picture of this area trimmed if you wish.
> I felt the same way about the spars clearance. Hopefully I won't discover
a
> problem later.
> Good luck,
> Bill McClellan
> A164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
> Hi! All
> I seem to be getting multiple copies again ! Is anyone else ?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Not I . Nothing this server software does would surprise me. If you have
changed your subscription address recently, or re-subscribed as the same address
that might cause this sort of thing. Otherwise, who knows ? (A few apparent
duplicate posts are actually duplicate sends, with slightly different times on
them, caused by author's brain fade or finger trouble or by thier own ISP
getting muddled.)
John Cliff
Europa Club List Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: XS wing panel glueing |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Fergkyle"
******************************************************
Jonathan:
I've got Classic foam wings, but perhaps a hint on similar 'gluing'
would be useful. I bought several thicknesses of cushion foam from an
upholstery outlet, from 1/4in (6mm) to 1-1/4in (32mm). Since I cannot
envision building a vacuum bag rig for pressing bits together, I have taken
to applying the epoxy, positioning the parts together (with peelply and/or
polythene plastic sheeting as req'd), then overlying the foam cushion then a
stiffening board/panel plus perhaps spars to even out the pressure below,
then topped with weights (an old transformer and an electric motor or two,
unused resin cans, etc). I've found that the even pressure (a) gets rid of
bubbles and sinusses, (b) sqeezes excess into the peelply or away to the
side for trimming, and (c) tends to duplicate the magic of factory bagging.
The inspector seems pleased with the results........
Comments from the experts welcome.
Of course, it means working out how to produce the required pressure
throughout, or where indicated, and ensuring there's no squeezing into
unwanted materials, The polythene sheeting is suitably cheap but may be
reused, and the other equipment should be near to hand for the job.
You might want to research the canny scheme brought up by another
builder, in which he applied pressure to his cockpit insertion to the lower
fuselage by 'hanging' the bottom and applying tightened cartage straps to
overhanging wood beams to press together parts without disturbing their
shapes.
Happy Landings
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
***********************************************************
Message text written by INTERNET:PBoulet(at)aol.com
>Any ideas on what I might do to pass the time awaiting my March arrival of
my "newborn"??<
If you haven't bought all your tools yet I would recommend the following if
you haven't got them already:
Permagrit tools for work on GRP
Accurate digital scales for weighing epoxy and Redux
Digital level for setting up fling surfaces
Dremel for all sorts of uses
Thermometer with % humidity indication (NB max humidity for epoxy layups
70%)
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
All Europa aircraft are subject to a new mandatory modification, Mod 58, which
entails the replacement of the tailplane anti-servo tab's drive pin plates.
We are sending out this modification as quickly as manufacture of the new parts
allows, starting with those of you who are flying Europas. If you are flying
your Europa and have not received this modification before the end of January,
please contact us.
Before next flight it is strongly advised that you carefully check the exposed
part of the tab drive pin lates for cracks. If you find evidence of cracking,
DO NOT FLY.
Cracking of this component is likely if your aircraft has been subject to excessive
vibrations caused by an out of balance propeller or difficulty in engine
starting for example.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kesterton, Donald" <KestertonD(at)logica.com> |
| Subject: | aring Classic Wings for Filling |
I would appreciate some advice on the preparation of the Europa Classic
flying surfaces prior to filling. Yes I'm one of the really slow builders,
but still enjoying it!!
My question concerns just how much sanding of the surface is acceptable to
create an adequate surface key for the filler, taking into account that the
glass fibres are on or very close to the surface, and the surface
preparation is for filler which adds no structural strength, rather than say
a bid lay-up.
If I was preparing for a lay-up I would sand to a dull surface finish with
say 80 to 180 grade aluminium oxide paper.
For filler however this seems a bit excessive and would possibly damage the
glass cloth strands.
How much sanding of the classic flying surfaces would you advise? What
surface finish should I be aiming for before application of filler? I know
what the manual says but I want to be sure I don't damage my wings!!
Regards
Donald Kesterton
G-PATS Builder No 216
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | [c-a] IFR and these VFR airplanes.... |
I thought that this was worth a read. Hope you agree.
Graham
>[The Canard Aviators's Mailing list]
>
>vacuum pump with one directional gyro being electrical. (Either the DG
>or the Turn needle)" and " Have Fun, Fly Safely" ->
>
>Hard IFR on one engine with no radar, no de-ice, and no real instrument
>redundancy (an electric turn co-ordinator won't hack it in anything but
>very still air) is a formula for shredded fiber glass and a short life.
>
>We are conditioned by the FAA and industry to accept as a norm for IFR
>flight this junk instrument equipment in general aviation. How many of
>you would put your wife and kids on a commercial airliner operating with
>vacuum gyros on a $300 pump? Why is it OK in an experimental airplane
>or any other general aviation machine? We do it because it is legal -
>not because it is safe.
>
>OK, so you're a gung-ho young ace pilot and this is something you must
>do. (been there)
>
>Go with a good auto pilot with its own electric gyro, learn to trust it,
>and use every feature of it. Let it be the back up to the vacuum
>system. It is a good co-pilot that will go a long way in keeping you
>ahead of the game when things get tense - like the destination just went
>below minimums and ATC says standby while 50 other airplanes are in the
>same fix. The very best IFR pilot can be easily overwhelmed in bad, bad
>weather with equipment not designed to be there. (I kid you not, the
>rain can be so loud you can't hear the radios and the turbulence so bad
>you can't see the instruments - your head is shaking so much)
>
>Be smart - set the minimums at a 1000-3, no ice, no TRSA's and no night.
> And practice, practice, practice. One IFR flight a month isn't enough.
> Good IFR pilots do it often, not much of anything else, and get regular
>check rides.
>
>Think VFR in these little airplanes - there is no such thing as cheap,
>safe, IFR flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Preparing Classic Wings for Filling |
k>
>How much sanding of the classic flying surfaces would you advise? What
>surface finish should I be aiming for before application of filler? I know
>what the manual says but I want to be sure I don't damage my wings!!
>
>Donald Kesterton
>G-PATS Builder No 216
Hi Don,
You might try those foam pads with grit bonded on. they conform nicely and
will touch more surface than stiff paper. They do wear out quickly and you
need to keep grease and perspiration off them and the glass. This technique
was recommended by a US Navy composites advisor at Sun n Fun a year or tow
ago. He had tested and found better adhesion than he got with 60 grit. Do a
test and decide!
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Matthew Russell Ltd taking over Harry Luck premises |
I've received a note from Matthew Russell indicating that his company
is now taking over the 4200 sq ft workshop previously used by Harry
Luck Ltd for aircraft build and support operations. They are
described as "Manufacturer in wood, metal, and glassfibre" and offer
instrument panel installation & accessories, aircraft finishing, and
upholstery. Harry Luck will be a consultant to the new company. A
Matthew Russell Ltd catalogue of electrical wiring and other
components is available free on request.
Matthew Russell Ltd
24 Greenlands Road
Pickering
North Yorkshire
YO18 8BQ
01653 668169
I have no connection with or experience of either of the companies
mentioned - this message is provided for information only, not as a
recommendation.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <pma(at)obtero.net> |
Hi All,
I have been searching through the postings and can't seem to find much on
the topic of upholstery. I was wondering if I make my own seat cushions and
maybe a bit of upholstery over the tunnel whether I should try and get it
figured out before I glue the top on.
I had in mind painting most of the interior with speckle finish, possibly
covering the tunnel and making the seats. I was wondering if anyone has any
patterns ? I'd be interested in anyones ideas on this topic.
Thanks,
Paul McAllister
Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter van Schoonhoven <pvans(at)pacifier.com> |
It would be nice if an established upholstery shop could make a standard
package like they do for the RV builders. Cleaveland Tools does a fantastic
job making seat cushions specially designed for the RV series, and they
sell extra material so you can customize sidewalls, etc. I bought a set for
my RV3 and could not be happier. ( Gotta fly something while building,
right?_)
I spoke to them at Oshkosh last summer and they said they would do it if
there was enough interest. So if there is more interest, we need to
individually call them and ask, so they realize there is a market.
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
Order by phone at: 1-800-368-1822
Questions by phone at: 515-432-6794
Order by Fax at: 515-432-7804
Order by E-Mail at: Orders(at)cleavelandtool.com
There's my idea. I would rather pay a few hundred dollars for a
professional to do this than to sort it out myself. Saves time too,
Comments welcome.
>Hi All,
>
>I have been searching through the postings and can't seem to find much on
>the topic of upholstery. I was wondering if I make my own seat cushions and
>maybe a bit of upholstery over the tunnel whether I should try and get it
>figured out before I glue the top on.
>
>I had in mind painting most of the interior with speckle finish, possibly
>covering the tunnel and making the seats. I was wondering if anyone has any
>patterns ? I'd be interested in anyones ideas on this topic.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul McAllister
>Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk> |
There are upholstery kits advertised in The Europa Club magazine...
"from 425
we also have available
SEATS
SELF FIT UPHOLSTERY KITS
UPHOLSTERY MATERIAL
Tel: 01751 474623"
I don't know what they are like but it might be worth giving them a call and
see if they have a catalogue or samples.
regards
Keith
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Schoonhoven
> Subject: Re: Upholstery
>
>
> It would be nice if an established upholstery shop could make
> a standard
> package like they do for the RV builders. Cleaveland Tools
> does a fantastic
> job making seat cushions specially designed for the RV
> series, and they
> sell extra material so you can customize sidewalls, etc. I
> bought a set for
> my RV3 and could not be happier. ( Gotta fly something while
> building,
> right?_)
>
> I spoke to them at Oshkosh last summer and they said they
> would do it if
> there was enough interest. So if there is more interest, we need to
> individually call them and ask, so they realize there is a market.
>
> http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
>
>
> Order by phone at: 1-800-368-1822
> Questions by phone at: 515-432-6794
> Order by Fax at: 515-432-7804
> Order by E-Mail at: Orders(at)cleavelandtool.com
>
> There's my idea. I would rather pay a few hundred dollars for a
> professional to do this than to sort it out myself. Saves time too,
> Comments welcome.
>
>
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I have been searching through the postings and can't seem to
> find much on
> >the topic of upholstery. I was wondering if I make my own
> seat cushions and
> >maybe a bit of upholstery over the tunnel whether I should
> try and get it
> >figured out before I glue the top on.
> >
> >I had in mind painting most of the interior with speckle
> finish, possibly
> >covering the tunnel and making the seats. I was wondering
> if anyone has any
> >patterns ? I'd be interested in anyones ideas on this topic.
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Paul McAllister
> >Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________
> _________
> >The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
> info(at)avnet.co.uk
>
>
> The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
> info(at)avnet.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
Oregon Aero in Scappoose, OR makes excellent temperfoam seats for Europas.
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk>
; "'Europa'"
Subject: RE: Upholstery
> There are upholstery kits advertised in The Europa Club magazine...
> "from 425
> we also have available
> SEATS
> SELF FIT UPHOLSTERY KITS
> UPHOLSTERY MATERIAL
> Tel: 01751 474623"
>
> I don't know what they are like but it might be worth giving them a call
and
> see if they have a catalogue or samples.
>
> regards
> Keith
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> > Schoonhoven
> > Subject: Re: Upholstery
> >
> >
> > It would be nice if an established upholstery shop could make
> > a standard
> > package like they do for the RV builders. Cleaveland Tools
> > does a fantastic
> > job making seat cushions specially designed for the RV
> > series, and they
> > sell extra material so you can customize sidewalls, etc. I
> > bought a set for
> > my RV3 and could not be happier. ( Gotta fly something while
> > building,
> > right?_)
> >
> > I spoke to them at Oshkosh last summer and they said they
> > would do it if
> > there was enough interest. So if there is more interest, we need to
> > individually call them and ask, so they realize there is a market.
> >
> > http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
> >
> >
> > Order by phone at: 1-800-368-1822
> > Questions by phone at: 515-432-6794
> > Order by Fax at: 515-432-7804
> > Order by E-Mail at: Orders(at)cleavelandtool.com
> >
> > There's my idea. I would rather pay a few hundred dollars for a
> > professional to do this than to sort it out myself. Saves time too,
> > Comments welcome.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Hi All,
> > >
> > >I have been searching through the postings and can't seem to
> > find much on
> > >the topic of upholstery. I was wondering if I make my own
> > seat cushions and
> > >maybe a bit of upholstery over the tunnel whether I should
> > try and get it
> > >figured out before I glue the top on.
> > >
> > >I had in mind painting most of the interior with speckle
> > finish, possibly
> > >covering the tunnel and making the seats. I was wondering
> > if anyone has any
> > >patterns ? I'd be interested in anyones ideas on this topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Paul McAllister
> > >Builder 363 - http://pma.obtero.net
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________________
> > _________
> > >The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
> > info(at)avnet.co.uk
> >
> >
> > The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
> > info(at)avnet.co.uk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Davis" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts |
I had all my aluminium brackets, spacers and general bits hard gold
anodised. It cost around 40 to have about 200 bits done. Where they are to
be bonded I remove the anodising. I have done the same thing again on my new
kit. I didn't have high stress bits like the wing attach brackets anodised
as I am uncertain if this reduces the strength. However I am sure that an
anodised bracket is more airworthy than one which is corroded.
I also use alodining after scrubbing with Ajax. I have used clear laquer on
some parts treated in this way.
I am lucky that on the Ban-bi kit the steel parts come already plated or
painted.
Jerry
LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Identifying Alu and Steel parts
> I can recommend powder coating for many of the metal parts, steel or
> aluminium. It is not cheap but when done by a professional company, it
> is very tough and almost indestructible. I have had to grind it off in
> some places and it is hard work. Gloss finish is very good. There are
> various powder choices but polyester is an all purpose finish usually
> available in black, white and assorted other colours if desired.
>
> Cheers, John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Davis" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Shop floor surfacing |
For theose who don't want to go to great expence on floor coverings. I put
an old carpet down in my garage before building my aircraft. Keeps your feet
a little warmer in the winter in the UK and protects things you may drop.
Cost me nothing.
Jerry
LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: Nic <tgynz(at)cts.com>
Subject: Shop floor surfacing
> Dig that nice floor.
> I work on one and it's 'most excellent'.
> I can find a circlip or tiny anything on it.
> Smooth, flat, hard
> I haven't spilled resin on it yet, but hope it will separate by modest
> means.
> Rubber standing pads are good for around the central table
> Very comfy.
>
> Be happy!
> nic xs145
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Mc Donnell" <raymc(at)idt.net> |
Hello all I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the series "A PLANE IS
BORN" . Which was showing in the UK around Christmas time. Thanks Ray Mc
Donnell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Neils, Ph.D." <Rob.Neils(at)ior.com> |
Oregon Aero in Scappoose, OR has a website:
http://www.oregonaero.com/
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A PLANE IS BORN |
| From: | Craig M Ellison <ellisonair(at)juno.com> |
Hi all,
I too would be interested in getting hold of tapes of A Plane Is Born
should some be available. A picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.
Craig
A205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [c-a] IFR and these VFR airplanes.... |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Fergkyle"
*****************************************************
> I thought that this was worth a read. Hope you agree.
>
> Graham
My God, Graham....
That's the most profound pronouncement I've seen on this net!
The 'been there' remark brought back all the terrors of the
night in black weather, a screw-up in the ATC, icing, and a lost soul with
no compass and the sweat seeping into the collar. Lord, get me out of here
and I'll never do this again. A flying suit soaked in white salt and wool
socks that stick to your skin. Even a hot bath doesn't eliminate the
shaking. ....and that was in an expensive, carefully maintained ship of the
line.
If nothing else convinces the uninitiated of the folly of
reliance on single elements of a complex exercise - the words ,
"Think VFR in these little airplanes - there is no such thing as cheap,
safe, IFR flight." .......should!
Nice choice!!
HAPPY landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | XS wing panel glueing |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"RWM-SYSTEMS" <raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi>
****************************************************
I have completed this task also few moments ago and I had similar presentiments.
I decided to put few blobs of micro on the ribs there and there and test glue
the skin. Of cource I put some tape on the underside of the skin to prevent real
glueing. Doing this I got wonderful knowledge how much to put Redux-flox-mixture
everywhere. The gap was 0-5 mm (really, maximum cap 5 mm). I did not like the
idea to spoil the aerofoil shape. That is why I did not put weights on the
ribs - only on the spar, trailing edge, tip and the root.
I can be sure: my skins are well glued.
Raimo #417
Finland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | re upgrades question |
Hi,
I just started work on the XS kit, and I would appreciate answers to a few
questions. My plan is to install very minimal stuff in the Europa - just the
basic VFR instruments and no gyros. I am also thinking of not installing
wingtip or landing lights. However, I want to leave all these as future
upgrades. Is that possible? For example, can I pull the entire instrument
panel out and install a brand new one? Is that possible once the cockpit
module and the fuselage are bonded? Also, what measures can I take now, so
that in the future I can install wingtip lights, strobes, landing lights and
an angle of attack indicator? Some people recommended that I install a conduit
through the wing so that I can run wires or plumbing at a later date. Are
there any other techniques?
On a related note, can I legally replace an airspeed indicator with an angle
of attack indicator?
CFII
Europa #A178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Future upgrades question |
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just started work on the XS kit, and I would appreciate answers to a few
> questions. My plan is to install very minimal stuff in the Europa - just the
> basic VFR instruments and no gyros. I am also thinking of not installing
> wingtip or landing lights. However, I want to leave all these as future
> upgrades. Is that possible? For example, can I pull the entire instrument
> panel out and install a brand new one? Is that possible once the cockpit
> module and the fuselage are bonded? Also, what measures can I take now, so
> that in the future I can install wingtip lights, strobes, landing lights and
> an angle of attack indicator? Some people recommended that I install a conduit
> through the wing so that I can run wires or plumbing at a later date. Are
> there any other techniques?
>
> On a related note, can I legally replace an airspeed indicator with an angle
> of attack indicator?
>
> CFII
> Europa #A178
>
>
Hi Andrew,
I strongly recommend running some type
of conduit through the wings, not only for
tip lights/strobes, but for the pitot/static
lines. The manual has you run the pitot/static
lines through the wing ribs with grommets
at the ribs. This would make it verrrry difficult
to replace these clear plastic lines at a later
date. I used 1/2 inch plastic pipe (the thin
walled black stuff used for drip sprinkler
systems) for conduit to each wing tip as well
as the pitot/static area (both sides), allowing
for installation of an AOA head on the starboard
outrigger brackets at a later date.
The instrument panel will have to be installed
so that it can be removed at a later date for
maintainance, debugging, etc. I used aluminum
sub-panels for the instrumets that could be replaced
with others at some later date.
Terry Seaver
Pleasanton, CA
A135
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Future upgrades question |
The panel is removable as a unit so it can be replaced at any time with a
new one if you wish. It can be withdrawn through the cockpit door - without
anything installed it is easy to handle but I would expect it to be a bit
more difficult with all instruments and avionics installed (mine is still
"empty"). Consider using the appropriate connectors behind the panel for
pneumatic lines and electrical wires so that removal will not be complicated
by having to disconnect everything wire by wire or tube by tube.
You have received good advice regarding installation of a conduit for future
lighting in the wing tips - this is a "must have" item because there is no
way to fish the wires through the wing ribs otherwise. My conduit is aft of
the spar (the only available location unless you have a 12 foot long drill
bit) so it required a right angle turn to route the wires forward to the
recessed lights. I recommend that you fabricate a junction box at the right
angle turn to facilitate pulling the wires - a junction box cover (mine is
on the bottom of the wing) can be fitted like those used for the access
ports in the fuselage near the elevator trim servo.
I have installed the Proprietary Software Systems, Inc. AOA indicator (
http://www.angleofattack.com/ ) which requires ports mounted inside of the
wing surfaces. Had I not installed lights within the wing tip there would
not have been any way to reach inside of the wing (forward of the spar) in
order to mount the port hardware. It is impossible to reach around the
outboard end of the spar from the aft side of the spar even before closing
the wing, so the cutout I made for the lights gave me just enough of an
opening for my hand to reach the preferred location for the AOA ports. Once
the wing is closed, in the absence of a cutout of some sort, you will not be
able to mount anything inside the wing. A separate conduit will be required
for the pneumatic lines unless a single conduit is sufficiently large for
all wires and tubes. I know from trying that a 1/2 inch diameter tube is
not large enough for both the electrical and the AOA pneumatic lines so I
recommend installing a separate conduit for each (if you use the same AOA).
If your wings have not yet been shipped you should special order wings
without the wing tip molding installed because this will make the addition
of everything within the wingtips much easier. This clever idea is not mine
but I highly recommend it, having done the job the hard way.
I don't have a copy of the FARs handy but as I recall an airspeed indicator
is required equipment.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:46 AM
Subject: Future upgrades question
Hi,
I just started work on the XS kit, and I would appreciate answers to a few
questions. My plan is to install very minimal stuff in the Europa - just the
basic VFR instruments and no gyros. I am also thinking of not installing
wingtip or landing lights. However, I want to leave all these as future
upgrades. Is that possible? For example, can I pull the entire instrument
panel out and install a brand new one? Is that possible once the cockpit
module and the fuselage are bonded? Also, what measures can I take now, so
that in the future I can install wingtip lights, strobes, landing lights and
an angle of attack indicator? Some people recommended that I install a
conduit
through the wing so that I can run wires or plumbing at a later date. Are
there any other techniques?
On a related note, can I legally replace an airspeed indicator with an angle
of attack indicator?
CFII
Europa #A178
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Future upgrades question |
The first item listed as required equipment for VFR flight in FAR 91.205 (b)
is the airspeed indicator.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:46 AM
Subject: Future upgrades question
Hi,
I just started work on the XS kit, and I would appreciate answers to a few
questions. My plan is to install very minimal stuff in the Europa - just the
basic VFR instruments and no gyros. I am also thinking of not installing
wingtip or landing lights. However, I want to leave all these as future
upgrades. Is that possible? For example, can I pull the entire instrument
panel out and install a brand new one? Is that possible once the cockpit
module and the fuselage are bonded? Also, what measures can I take now, so
that in the future I can install wingtip lights, strobes, landing lights and
an angle of attack indicator? Some people recommended that I install a
conduit
through the wing so that I can run wires or plumbing at a later date. Are
there any other techniques?
On a related note, can I legally replace an airspeed indicator with an angle
of attack indicator?
CFII
Europa #A178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Future upgrades question] |
Hello
I know that the FAR requires an airspeed indicator. My question was whether an
AOA indicator can be substituted for it. After all, the AOA gives a more
accurate measurement of critical airspeeds (Vsl, Vso, Vno, Vne and Va) than
the conventional airspeed indicator. One can also calibrate the AOA in terms
of airspeeds and call it an Airspeed+AOA indicator. However, I do not know
whether the FAA will accept that as a valid substitute. Does the FAR say that
the airspeed must be driven by a pitot-static system?
Thanks!
"Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
The first item listed as required equipment for VFR flight in FAR 91.205 (b)
is the airspeed indicator.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Future upgrades question] |
Hi, Andrew --
I wasn't aware that any AOA system provided indications for Vno, Vne,
and Va, much less accurate ones (small AOA at those speeds).
As to an FAR, there's none for homebuilts vis-a-vis the ASI. However,
FAR 23.1323(a) requires that an ASI be a pitot pressure instrument by
inference, and while Part 23 does not apply to a homebuilt, the FAA
can pull out any Reg. or Advisory Circular if needed to define what
airworthiness is.
The further problem is that the FAA inspector will very likely
consider the ASI required by Part 91 as being of the usual sort.
Guvmint employees are just like that (I was one, not FAA, but arguably
same genetic defect).
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I know that the FAR requires an airspeed indicator. My question was whether an
> AOA indicator can be substituted for it. After all, the AOA gives a more
> accurate measurement of critical airspeeds (Vsl, Vso, Vno, Vne and Va) than
> the conventional airspeed indicator. One can also calibrate the AOA in terms
> of airspeeds and call it an Airspeed+AOA indicator. However, I do not know
> whether the FAA will accept that as a valid substitute. Does the FAR say that
> the airspeed must be driven by a pitot-static system?
>
> Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | nsey Air Rally 2001 |
I've received an invitation from the Guernsey Aero Club for the
Europa Club to participate in their 30th International Air Rally, on
14 - 16 Sep 2001.
There is an optional nav competition, and the promise of a great
social weekend. Their website gives full info & pix from last year's
event at <http://www.guernseyaeroclub.com>. There will also be a
stand at the PFA Rally promoting the event.
There are trophies for the largest number of participants from one
club or organisation. (Remember we're trying to get more Europas than
Jodels at the PFA Rally this year - we could do it again in Guernsey!)
Further details available from the Aero Club manager Brent Baigent on
01481 265267, mobile 07781 115460, fax 01481 263830, e-mail
.
Guernsey Aero Club
La Planque Lane
Forest
Guernsey
Channel Islands
GY8 0DT
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Future upgrades question] |
>I wasn't aware that any AOA system provided indications for Vno, Vne,
>and Va, much less accurate ones (small AOA at those speeds).
They don't, but AoA is the critical factor , particularly near the stall
and doesn't vary with weight. Didn't the Air Force go to AoA as the primary
flight instrument in combat aircraft after losing a few F4s? I remember
Burt Rutan did spin testing on those with spin recovery parachute attached.
The chute let go on one occasion and they had to eject.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europaxs(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: [RE: Future upgrades question]] |
That's a good point. Even though theoretically AOA is a better concept than
airspeed, it may be hard to measure it accurately, especially at cruise speeds
and beyond. Nevertheless, I am still not convinced that this is not possible.
A single instrument calibrated in terms of AOA and airspeed does not seem like
a far-fetched idea.
Fred Fillinger wrote:
Hi, Andrew --
I wasn't aware that any AOA system provided indications for Vno, Vne,
and Va, much less accurate ones (small AOA at those speeds).
As to an FAR, there's none for homebuilts vis-a-vis the ASI. However,
FAR 23.1323(a) requires that an ASI be a pitot pressure instrument by
inference, and while Part 23 does not apply to a homebuilt, the FAA
can pull out any Reg. or Advisory Circular if needed to define what
airworthiness is.
The further problem is that the FAA inspector will very likely
consider the ASI required by Part 91 as being of the usual sort.
Guvmint employees are just like that (I was one, not FAA, but arguably
same genetic defect).
Regards,
Fred F., A063
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I know that the FAR requires an airspeed indicator. My question was whether
an
> AOA indicator can be substituted for it. After all, the AOA gives a more
> accurate measurement of critical airspeeds (Vsl, Vso, Vno, Vne and Va) than
> the conventional airspeed indicator. One can also calibrate the AOA in
terms
> of airspeeds and call it an Airspeed+AOA indicator. However, I do not know
> whether the FAA will accept that as a valid substitute. Does the FAR say
that
> the airspeed must be driven by a pitot-static system?
>
> Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: A PLANE IS BORN |
Advice - dont. It'll only depress you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig M Ellison <ellisonair(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: A PLANE IS BORN
> Hi all,
>
> I too would be interested in getting hold of tapes of A Plane Is Born
> should some be available. A picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.
>
> Craig
> A205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Future upgrades question] |
...and if the a/c has a tailhook it also has an AOA indicator.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [RE: Future upgrades question]
> >I wasn't aware that any AOA system provided indications for Vno, Vne,
> >and Va, much less accurate ones (small AOA at those speeds).
>
> They don't, but AoA is the critical factor , particularly near the stall
> and doesn't vary with weight. Didn't the Air Force go to AoA as the
primary
> flight instrument in combat aircraft after losing a few F4s? I remember
> Burt Rutan did spin testing on those with spin recovery parachute
attached.
> The chute let go on one occasion and they had to eject.
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
Hi! All and Rowland.
Can't resist this :- You aren't likely to get a big number if you limit the
"flyouts" to max.8No. !!!!??
I may be interested but already signed up for two or three trips with ST
Aviation , one to Prague one to Paris and probably one to Morocco !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rowland & Wilma Carson
Sent: 23 January 2001 10:26
Subject: Guernsey Air Rally 2001
I've received an invitation from the Guernsey Aero Club for the
Europa Club to participate in their 30th International Air Rally, on
14 - 16 Sep 2001.
There is an optional nav competition, and the promise of a great
social weekend. Their website gives full info & pix from last year's
event at <http://www.guernseyaeroclub.com>. There will also be a
stand at the PFA Rally promoting the event.
There are trophies for the largest number of participants from one
club or organisation. (Remember we're trying to get more Europas than
Jodels at the PFA Rally this year - we could do it again in Guernsey!)
Further details available from the Aero Club manager Brent Baigent on
01481 265267, mobile 07781 115460, fax 01481 263830, e-mail
.
Guernsey Aero Club
La Planque Lane
Forest
Guernsey
Channel Islands
GY8 0DT
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
<>
Bob,
are you saying you are willing to organise Europa club participation in the Guernsey
Air Rally this year? The Club fly-in coordinator can give you some advice
on planning and bookings, or ask me after 3 june...
chus,
dave
g-bxum
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
I have just had occasion to "suspend" my Europa to replace a tyre. During
this it was apparent that the (mono) wheel could be be moved up and down
about 3/8" without anything else moving. This was traced to elongation of
the LGO5 bushes, which have gone elliptical by at least 20 thou. I have
already found another builder who has replaced them. IMHO they would be
better in a harder material than phosphor bronze; after all there is no
continuous rotation, but they have to withstand the thump of our landings -
and maybe airstream buffeting repetitively loads them too.
Graham C. G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jronjones" <jronjones(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
I entered the Guernsey Rally 6 or 7 times when I was the proud owner of a
PA28-180 some time ago and have a cabinet full of silverware to remind me of
the successes I had.
It is a fabulous experience and the nav. exercises are straight forward but
really do exercise the mind.
If my aeroplane is ready (and I'm not too far past it !) I would love to
enter once again.
The hospitality is superb (and the booze is cheap !)
Highly recommended !
Regards to all,
Ron Jones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
Hi! Dave .
Perhaps you misunderstood me . I haven't a clue ,I'm not ashamed to admit it
but we "juniors" "novices" "whatever" are not likely to ever be in that
capability until we have piggy backed on one or two trips and at 8 a go it's
going to be a long time coming round ? I don't feel that the "leader "
should have to concern himself with the "what to do items when there" , the
last thing I want is to be organized by someone else having arrived at the
destination , I think "do your own thing " should be the order of the day
otherwise I can well understand you would be overwhelmed by wet nursing and
pampering to everyone's whim.
However the flight details ,customs , route and general essentials of the
return Journey etc. I would think are essential for the novice such as me.
My a/c has to go to Bavaria before 50 hours are up , for propeller balance
analysis, Kevin Pearce of ST Aviation is going with me so hopefully I may be
more use after that trip ! (Incidentally what is significant about the 3rd
of June ?)
Best regards
Bob H.G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of DaveBuzz(at)aol.com
Sent: 23 January 2001 19:21
Subject: RE: Guernsey Air Rally 2001
<>
Bob,
are you saying you are willing to organise Europa club participation in the
Guernsey Air Rally this year? The Club fly-in coordinator can give you some
advice on planning and bookings, or ask me after 3 june...
chus,
dave
g-bxum
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: [RE: Future upgrades question]] |
Not really far-fetched, but maybe preferable still as separate
instruments. I've heard that an AOA indicator is not only fairly
standard now on bizjets and airline transports, but the pilots really
like it. A Flight Options pilot told me today that on his BeechJet
the AOA indicator is on the glare shield. Very useful for
take-off/landing (don't have to fuss over the charts which compute key
indicated airspeeds), but also at high flight levels where one AOA
reading to remember, under all weight and atmospheric conditions,
keeps you out of deep stall.
I ran NASA's FoilSim program on the issue, and it appears that AOA is
less than 1/2 as sensitive (to airspeed changes) at 150 MPH than at 60
MPH, using Europa weight, wing area and similar airfoil. The program
is now a Java applet on nasa.gov, in the education section of Glenn
Research Center, and targeted to young students, but I figure they
should have the math right!
Regards,
Fred F., A063, N3EU
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> That's a good point. Even though theoretically AOA is a better concept than
> airspeed, it may be hard to measure it accurately, especially at cruise speeds
> and beyond. Nevertheless, I am still not convinced that this is not possible.
> A single instrument calibrated in terms of AOA and airspeed does not seem like
> a far-fetched idea.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
FoilSim from nasa.
www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/index,html
www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/manual/mainhlp,htm
Nic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
It might be easier not to get your own copy.
FoilSim 2 runs at this locale
www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/airplane/foil2,html
Nic-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Armstrong" <peter(at)nexgen.co.nz> |
Could this web address be published correctly, I have replaced the , with .
and get a 404 error page not found.
Regards
Peter Armstrong
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
Subject: FoilSim @ NASA
FoilSim from nasa.
www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/index,html
www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/manual/mainhlp,htm
Nic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Saitta, AIA Principal" <saitta(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FoilSim @ NASA |
try http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/aerosim/
Peter
Peter Armstrong wrote:
>
> Could this web address be published correctly, I have replaced the , with .
> and get a 404 error page not found.
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Armstrong
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa(at)aztec.houxou.com
> Subject: FoilSim @ NASA
>
> FoilSim from nasa.
>
> www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/index,html
>
> www,grc,nasa,gov/www/k-12/foilsim/manual/mainhlp,htm
>
> Nic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulliz(at)cix.co.uk (Paul & Liz Atkinson) |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: [RE: Future upgrades question]] |
In article <3A6E215D.965FD6B1(at)ameritech.net>,
fillinger(at)ameritech.net (Fred Fillinger) wrote:
> I've heard that an AOA indicator is not only fairly
> standard now on bizjets and airline transports, but the
pilots really
> like it.
I think most airliners use AOA but don't show it to the
pilot. The data is fed to computers which then shout at you
when you get too slow! I flew an aircraft many years ago
with an AOA indicator and it quickly became indispensable. I
have missed one ever since. You can virtually ignore the ASI
in the circuit and know that as long as you follow what it
is telling you, you will not stall, whatever configuration
you are in. You can also fly safely and confidently at lower
speeds than most would consider safe with just an ASI.
Perhaps one day the "powers that be" will allow that an AOA
and a GPS give you all the info you really need for VFR.
Paul Atkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: [RE: Future upgrades question] |
<4.3.2.7.2.20010123123731.00baa1e0(at)post.avnet.co.uk>
>...and if the a/c has a tailhook it also has an AOA indicator.
Now why would a glider tug need AoA?!?
I had heard BTW that one German Europa has been towing gliders for a year
or two.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: [Re: [RE: Future upgrades question]] |
>That's a good point. Even though theoretically AOA is a better concept than
>airspeed, it may be hard to measure it accurately, especially at cruise speeds
>and beyond. Nevertheless, I am still not convinced that this is not possible.
>A single instrument calibrated in terms of AOA and airspeed does not seem like
>a far-fetched idea.
It probably is feasible but it would need some way of adjusting the
airspeed to readout according to weight, which is changing all the time.
AoA at landing speed would be accurate and tells you immediately if
something has changed whereas the ASI is 20 seconds behind it. That is the
real advantage. You may not need extreme accuracy for cruise and climb speeds.
I think you need AoA for operating near the ground or maneuvering and ASI
for navigating.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
Forwarded from bounce bin. Message is from
"Fergkyle"
*************************************************************
Cheers:
If I remember correctly, the L-1011 TriStar "Alpha Angle" system
(AoA) became active at first flap selection, through to landing - mostly for
guaranteeing proper attitude for approach with changing flap selections.
Lockheed told us it was not worth running at cruise (although it might have
saved a few reputations in autoflight regime into turbulence). I think it
was the small rate of change of angle with higher speeds whut done it.
Happy landings
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
hello Bob,
I appreciate that a bit of experience is useful before running any fly-out, but
the bottom line is someone will put in time and effort to organise (ie research
and book accomodation, give suggestions for routes, generally offer to arrange
paperwork for the group such as permissions required for overseas flying,
and liase with the destination airfield/customs/ (b)eurocrats(!) etc),
and the paperwork and problems do go up exponentially. If someone wants to organise
a fly out its not unreasonable to expect a limit - they want to enjoy the
event too!
Unfortunately you sometimes find a large variation in peoples accomodation expectations,
and it is naturally easier with a smaller group.
There is the club trip to France later in the year, and I plan to visit Epinal
in July, to which your quite welcome to fly down with me, but bring a tent and
sleeping bag!
When are you planning to visit Bavaria, and where?
3 june, check the next club mag, it'll be my first 'organisational attempt' -
gotta start sometime...
chus,
dave
ps. O
|
| Guernsey??????????????
/
|__/
;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca> |
Please ignore this.
John Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Housman" <ROB-HOUSMAN(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Impossible
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cliff" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Test shot
> Please ignore this.
>
> John Cliff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I agree that AOA info is useful, but not at the expense of an airspeed
indicator. Since the government desk jockeys require as ASI, its not even
worth wasting bandwidth here talking about it. Keep in mind that trying to
calibrate an AOA in terms of aispeed limits (Vne, maneuvering speed, flap
limits) only works at a fixed weight and 1G flight. It does give wing
"performance" (stall, Clmax,Vx, Vy) info regardless of weight and G loading,
which is why its a great instrument. You still need an ASI to give you the
amount of energy available (with varying weight and G loading, AOA won't give
you this info).
ASI and AOA give you different information. ASI can give you AOA info at 1G
and corrected for weight variations. AOA can be interpolated to give speed
info (at 1G and a fixed weight). You can fly the wing at max efficiency by
using AOA, but if you're going to push the envelope, I'd rather know how much
energy (airspeed) I have available. Any fighter pilot will tell you that AOA
is great, but not at the expense of an ASI. A good pilot can "feel" if he's
at the correct AOA, and certainly can feel where the stall begins.
Bottom line: Keep the ASI (you need it to know how fast you're going and for
energy management). Add AOA if you want to fly the plane efficiently (but you
can get the same info from the ASI). Tape a piece of string to the wingtip
trailing edge for a cheap AOA indicator. If you want to avoid stalling, go
out and practice stalls till you get a good feel for your machine (you need
to do this even with an AOA indicator). Get a book (about the size of a
magazine. Easy and quick to read) by Bob Wander called "Glider Polars and
Speed To Fly". You'll learn more about how a wing works in an evening of
reading than any instructor can teach you. I highly recommend it for all
pilots.
I'm ex- Air Force (supersonic and heavy jets) and now fly a B-777. In my
spare time I also fly sailplanes (cross country racing), bizjets, and teach
air combat and aerobatics in a SF-260 and Extra 300L (where I find an AOA
indicator would be of little use since I can feel where I need to be). The
Europa is my first kit plane.
Ben Clerx #A144
Southern California
________________________________________________________________________________
Soaring magazines such as "Soaring" and perhaps "Gliding" would have it. The
SSA bookstore would have it (www.ssa.org). Or direct from the author
(www.bobwander.com)
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | rney Fly-In 8-9-10 Jun 2001 |
I just discovered I received another announcement of a CI event a
little while back, and forgot to broadcast it. The accommodation
there is strictly limited, so early application is recommended. You
need to book an arrival slot to help them with surface arrangements.
The Alderney Flying Club invite you to their Annual Fly-In on 8th,
9th & 10th June 2001. There are 26 cups and other prizes to be won in
various competitions, and social functions on the Fri & Sat nights
with good food & live music.
For full information and booking form with accommodation list, contact:
Ralph Burridge
Wingspan
1 Rue Genet
Alderney
Channel Islands
GY9 3DX
phone/fax 01481 822297
e-mail
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Guernsey Air Rally 2001 |
> You aren't likely to get a big number if you limit the
>"flyouts" to max.8No. !!!!??
Bob - I think this raises the question of what level of
"organisation" is appropriate for Europa Club "fly-out" events.
(BTW, don't shoot the messenger! I am posting the info because my
name is advertised as first point of contact for the Club (chiefly
'cos we hope the majority of people wanting to contact the membership
secretary will be potential new members). I opted to post the info on
the "public" list rather than just send it to the Club Committee, to
give the maximum number of people the most notice of the event. It's
up to the Social Co-ordinators whether they choose to make any formal
provisions for any specific event organised by a third party, or
simply let people go along individually, as to any other fly-in. They
might want to conduct a poll on this forum to get evidence of likely
participation.)
The touring events run up to now have been limited to relatively low
numbers simply to make the logistics manageable. The Club has
organized accommodation and transpsort, as well as some activities,
at the remote end.
But, just thinking aloud, it seems that there could be a market for a
different flavour of tour where an experienced pilot helps others
with the admin and other complications of going foreign, but
participants are left to their own devices about rooms, surface
transport, entertainment, etc. However, I can see some problems that
might arize.
The leader might say "I'm staying at the XYZ motel in Slobbodia but
they only have N rooms and I don't know the names of any other
hotels". Obviously this could lead to some folk getting a poorer deal
than others where facilites are limited.
And how should the leader deal with folk who get lost on the ground
(as opposed to in the air, which we _all _ do)? Should the other 19
aircrafts' takeoff on the next leg be delayed because pilot #20
hasn't turned up and nobody knows where she/he was staying the night?
How many people are looking for this sort of experience? Replies to
Peter Kember or one of the other Social Co-ordinators, NOT me!
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: A PLANE IS BORN |
The blighter seems too good to be true. Consoling oneself with the thought
that we are isolated, unsponsored and solitary {most of us) which he was far
from being, is scant consolation. Odious comparisons with one's own slow and
faulty performance are inevitable. I'll have to do a video called "A
complain is borne" to cheer you up a bit......H
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Mc Donnell <raymc(at)idt.net>
Subject: Re: A PLANE IS BORN
> Why ???,will it depress me
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
> Cc: ;
> Subject: Re: A PLANE IS BORN
>
>
> > Advice - dont. It'll only depress you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Craig M Ellison <ellisonair(at)juno.com>
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: A PLANE IS BORN
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I too would be interested in getting hold of tapes of A Plane Is Born
> > > should some be available. A picture is worth a thousand words
> sometimes.
> > >
> > > Craig
> > > A205
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | training for monowheel |
Those folk with long memories will recall I asked for responses on
the likely uptake of a monowheel training course, an initiative of
the PFA Coaching Scheme in association with the Europa Factory. I am
pleased to reproduce below the text of a letter received by The
Europa Club from Cliff Piper of the PFA. A similar announcement will
appear shortly in "Popular Flying".
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Europa Training Weekend
Europa Aircraft has generously agreed to join with the PFA in a
training weekend Sywell on 12th - 13th May 2001.
This is a preliminary announcement and some details remain to be
finalised but arrangements provisionally are as follows .
1, Two mono-wheel aircraft will be available and two PFA coaches
each day in addition to Andy Draper from Europa aircraft.
2, The course is aimed at Europa builders who are close to
completion and restricted to the monowheel version.
3, Training will include some experience on a hard runway at
Hinton, weather permitting.
4, Numbers will be restricted to six, 3 on Saturday and 3 on
Sunday each candidate can expect about two hours flying (this will
also qualify for the one hour coaching flight for licence
revalidation as a bonus).
5, The fee will be approx 100 to cover the fuel and expenses
and does not include accommodation or food.
6, Accommodation is available at the Sywell Motel at about 45
per night and has a good selection of food but this must be arranged
personally by the candidate.
7, It is not intended that this training will be sufficient to
reach an adequate standard on the aircraft, but should be considered
as a primer for a Pilot Coaching Scheme conversion course.
8, If you wish to take advantage of this excellent opportunity
contact Penny Sharpe for a provisional booking but do not forward
cash at this stage.
Cliff Piper
Chairman PCS
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)cts.com> |
I just learned that "foilsim" needs to be "FoilSim".
A little somethin' every day.
Nic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sweeting Paul <paul.sweeting(at)hyder.com> |
Apologies this is not strictly a europa question,
but does anyone have a website address or details of european agents for
Grob the German Glider manufacturer.
I have an address for the US agents:
Grob Systems, Inc., 1070 Navajo Drive, Bluffton, OH 45817
But I would like some European contact details.
Cheers
Paul Sweeting
Paul R. Sweeting - Hyder UNIX Support.
* P.O. Box 110, Blwch SP 110,
Technology Drive, Ffordd Dechnoleg,
Bridgend Science Park, Parc Gwyddioniaeth,
Bridgend. Penybont Ar Ogwr.
CF31 3UJ. CF31 3UJ.
* Tel:+44(0)1656 765119
Mobile:+44(0)7901 855607
**********************************************************************
The information contained in this message is intended for the named recipients
only. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not
the addressee or the person responsible for delivering this to the addressee,
you may not copy, distribute or take action in reliance on it. If you have
received this message in error, please notify us immediately by a reversed charge
telephone call to +44 (0) 1656 765 000
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
There is another feature of the mono undercarriage which is apparent only
with the aircraft suspended. The damper block has enormous hysteresis with
hours of recovery time. Years ago Ron Swinden supplied me with a compression
curve when I had illusions of using it's Hook's "constant" for auto-loading -
(you can't, it isn't !)
This means that unless you park your aircraft with the weight off the wheel
!, the "pre-compression" you put in during construction is just not there and
the bolts go slack. So there is shock to the system, as about 3/8" slack is
taken up on first arrival. Another bit of precious prop. to ground spacing
lost.
Perhaps later blocks are different, but many must be flying like mine.
Graham C G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: u/c red block |
So let me understand here. Parking the plane compresses the damper, which
retains its compressed shape for any length flight. Hence, the
undercarriage is undamped for the first 3/8" of wheel travel.
Don't the shock absorbers in the later undercarriages (XS and others)
contribute some shock absorption? Or do they operate in extension only?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: <Grahamclk(at)aol.com>
Subject: u/c red block
> There is another feature of the mono undercarriage which is apparent only
> with the aircraft suspended. The damper block has enormous hysteresis
with
> hours of recovery time. Years ago Ron Swinden supplied me with a
compression
> curve when I had illusions of using it's Hook's "constant" for
auto-loading -
> (you can't, it isn't !)
>
> This means that unless you park your aircraft with the weight off the
wheel
> !, the "pre-compression" you put in during construction is just not there
and
> the bolts go slack. So there is shock to the system, as about 3/8" slack
is
> taken up on first arrival. Another bit of precious prop. to ground
spacing
> lost.
>
> Perhaps later blocks are different, but many must be flying like mine.
>
> Graham C G-EMIN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: u/c red block |
In a message dated 25/01/2001 22:29:44 GMT Standard Time, shauns(at)hevanet.com
writes:
<< Parking the plane compresses the damper, which
retains its compressed shape for any length flight. Hence, the
undercarriage is undamped for the first 3/8" of wheel travel. >>
Yes Shaun, that's exactly it. Dampers on the Classic weren't obligatory
though I do have them so probably nothing is going to break. However it
doesn't alter the fact that the undercarriage cannot behave as designed.
Perhaps we should pre-compress them some more ? Only Europa can decide.
Perhaps the biggest shock is when your inspector says "why are these bolts
so loose !"
Graham G-EMIN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
But isn't this resolved with the newer undercarriage black block as shipped
with the current kit?
Tony
<< Parking the plane compresses the damper, which
retains its compressed shape for any length flight. Hence, the
undercarriage is undamped for the first 3/8" of wheel travel. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
All I can say after the landing I made on Tuesday is that the performace of
the undercarriage suspension is "impressive"!!!!
Bob Jacobsen
N165BB
From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
>Subject: RE: u/c red block
>Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:20:44 +1300
>
>But isn't this resolved with the newer undercarriage black block as shipped
>with the current kit?
>
>Tony
>
><< Parking the plane compresses the damper, which
> retains its compressed shape for any length flight. Hence, the
> undercarriage is undamped for the first 3/8" of wheel travel. >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve & Eileen Genotte <gopack(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: u/c red block |
Bob Jacobsen wrote:
>
> All I can say after the landing I made on Tuesday is that the performace of
> the undercarriage suspension is "impressive"!!!!
One of those landings which falls under the category of "Seismic Event"?
Steve G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
"Fergkyle"
**********************************************
Ben:
This isn't an argument with what you say in essence but let
meask you a couple easy ones:
1. You and I are ex-AF, and I started on wooden jets in 1951 and
progressed(?) through a number of others, then Army Co-op then transports.
But are you telling me you never lost a buddy who pulled too tight in a
fighter break with an inside wind? ...that you never saw a demo pilot stall
out in vertical manoeuvre?They all had ASIs but no AoA.
2. Would you agree that USN doesn't always piddle away millions on
unnecessary hardware. I said 'always', heh, heh.
I had to be convinced of the value of an AoA but now see the
advantage of not having to bumble about revising my driftdown speed
according to present weight - I can just pick the ideal AoA no matter
weight, temp or density alt.
I believe the AoA tells you instantly what your lift is doing and
the ASI tells me where I went wrong 10 seconds ago. Thass my experience.
How do you like the 777?
Happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ttle airline humor |
Forwarded from the bounce bin. Message is from
Al Fuller
************************************************
Passengers on a small commuter plane are waiting for
the flight to leave and they're getting a little
impatient. But the airport staff has assured them that
the pilots will be there soon and the flight can take
off immediately there after.
The entrance opens and two men walk up the aisle,
dressed in pilot's uniforms-both are wearing dark
glasses. One is using a seeing-eye dog, and the other
is tapping his way up the aisle with a white tipped
cane. Nervous laughter spreads through the cabin as
the men enter the cockpit.
The door closes, and the engines start up. The
passengers begin glancing around, nervously, searching
for some sign that this is just a little practical
joke. None is forthcoming.
The plane moves faster and faster down the runway and
people at the windows realize that they're headed
straight for the edge of the water at the end of the
airport's property. It begins to look as though the
plane will never take off, but will plow into the
water!!
Panicked screams fill the cabin, but at that moment,
the plane lifts smoothly into the air.
The passengers relax and laugh a little sheepishly.
Soon they have all retreated into their magazines,
secure in the knowledge that the plane is in good
hands.
Up in the cockpit, the co-pilot turns to the pilot
and says, "You know, Bob, one of these days, they're
going to scream too late, and we're all gonna die.
---------------------------------------------------
OK, lets see: Amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic and
experts build the Space Shuttle. Hummmmmmm....
Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr. | Date: | Jan 26, 2001 |
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>But isn't this resolved with the newer undercarriage black block as shipped
>with the current kit?
>
>Tony
>
><< Parking the plane compresses the damper, which
> retains its compressed shape for any length flight. Hence, the
> undercarriage is undamped for the first 3/8" of wheel travel. >>
I'm still confused. Do you mean elastomeric spring when you say damper? The
dampers (hydraulic) were fitted to stop the bounce caused by the spring.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: u/c red block |
europa(at)avnet.co.uk
In a message dated 25/01/2001 23:18:54 GMT Standard Time, tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz
writes:
<< But isn't this resolved with the newer undercarriage black block as shipped
with the current kit?
>>
Could well be - you only have to tighten one up in a vice to check. Or if
already installed you should find the plate spacing is less than it was set
to, and the bolts loose.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grahamclk(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: u/c red block |
In a message dated 26/01/2001 12:39:11 GMT Standard Time,
grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk writes:
<< Do you mean elastomeric spring when you say damper >>
Yes, sorry I do. As I understand it the hydraulic dampers are rebound only,
but of course the tyre compliance will lessen direct shocks to the bearings
even if the elastomer is not filling the space any more. Don't know if the
current black block behaves this way, but AFAIK there has been no suggestion
of replacing the red one.
Graham C
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Ferg
I'm not saying that AOA isn't required. I just wouldn't substitute it for an
ASI and try to convince the FAA (or other goverment equal) that I don't need
to install an ASI. AOA is a valuable tool, especially where max performing
the plane is required (flying out of windshear at 0.9 Cl). They are more
useful in jets that require lots of altitude to recover from a stall than in
light planes that recover much quicker. But for stall recognition, nearly all
aircraft (particularly jets) give the pilot adaquate warning approaching the
stall without having to refer to AOA. When you stall, you'll know it. AOA
would be useful in recovering with minimum altitude loss. Therefore, AOA is
more for flying at max performance (at a given, fixed angle of attack), like
consistant approaches to a carrier deck. Don't get me wrong. I love AOA
indicators. But I also love my ASI since it tells me my energy state.
Anyone going without an ASI, thinking that AOA will give all the info they
seek, will be disappointed. Certainly, add an AOA to your ASI. All I'm saying
is that AOA in a light plane isn't the same "bang for the buck" as in a jet
or other high performance plane (read that as high wing loading).
To answer your question on the B-777 (which also has an AOA indicator); its a
REALLY nice plane to fly. If all future planes handle this well, then
aviation has a bright future. Anyone out there that can fly a Europa can
easily fly and land a B-777. Its the only plane I've been able to grease on
EVERY landing (so far). They make 'em easy to fly so that us ex-Air Force
types don't break them.
Ben Clerx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>. But for stall recognition, nearly all
>aircraft (particularly jets) give the pilot adaquate warning approaching the
>stall without having to refer to AOA. When you stall, you'll know it.
If you stall a Europa or similar high performance small aircraft, (Lancair,
Glasair, BanBi etc) below 100 feet it may well be too late. All the ones I
have test stalled have dropped a wing. Some violently. (all except the XS I
flew which was more docile)
> Therefore, AOA is more for flying at max performance (at a given, fixed
> angle of attack), like
>consistant approaches to a carrier deck.
Or consistent approaches to short dirt fields. Take off from small farm
strips is usually a max performance job, here in UK anyway.
I still insist AoA tells you what is going to happen, ASI tells you what
happened 20 seconds ago. AoA must be a better way.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cafe St Tropez" <mail(at)cafesttropez.com.au> |
I am new on the list, building an Europa in Australia. Is someone can
help me to choose between the AOA sport and professional. Is the
professional worth the difference in price.
Jean-claude Smitka
jc(at)cafesttropez.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ine fuel filters (surplus to requirement) |
Hi! Builders.
I have a coupe of Europa Supplied fuel filters and new elements all AS NEW
but smell of fuel ! to dispose of.
Anyone not yet fixed up with filters please be advised they come cheap from
me !
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: In line fuel filters (surplus to requirement) |
So have I - totally unused and in the original packaging.Any offer gladly
accepted......H
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob.Harrison <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: In line fuel filters (surplus to requirement)
> Hi! Builders.
> I have a coupe of Europa Supplied fuel filters and new elements all AS NEW
> but smell of fuel ! to dispose of.
> Anyone not yet fixed up with filters please be advised they come cheap
from
> me !
> Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
I talked to the head of Proprietary Software Systems about this. From a
December 31, 2000 - January 26, 2001
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-bq