Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ci

March 05, 2002 - March 14, 2002



      used in the fuel. They can cause damage to some types of plastics and 
      rubbers. I would always filter the fuel from the petrol station as 
      its high price has nothing to do with quality, and everything to do 
      with excessive taxation.
      
      Ed
      
      Quoting KarkelB(at)aol.com:
      
      > Hi folks,
      >              just been reading the march issue of todays pilot 
      magazine.
      > 
      > There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through 
      a 
      > paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines.
      > Previously 
      > i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now
      > whats the 
      > truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with  long 
      term
      > 
      > experince on either fuels with the rotax engine?
      > 
      >      regards Karim. 
      > 
      _
      > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
      > 
      > 
      
      
      /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
      ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
      www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Rotax has some service bulletins discussing the problems. One mitigator of avgas damage is the type of motor oil used and how often changed, and one SB charts out the options. They still prefer mogas, though, and they are the preferable source of advice, IMO. Best, Fred F. KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote: > > Hi folks, > just been reading the march issue of todays pilot magazine. > There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through a > paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines. Previously > i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now whats the > truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with long term > experince on either fuels with the rotax engine? > > regards Karim. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> Hi folks, > just been reading the march issue of todays pilot > magazine. There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read > through a paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged > engines. Don't tell my Subaru RSK B4 that :-) It's got two turbos. The preferred fuel for the 914 is unleaded mogas. If you use avgas then you will need to change oil and replace plugs more. Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Intercom.
Michael Dawson wrote: > > Have we any avionics experts out there ? I have an intercom problem that nobody seems to be able to solve. When receiving transmissions my intercom locks out and I am unable to talk to my P2 - not a problem unless you operate in busy airspace or from a large airport like I do. - the wiring has been checked and it seems to be OK to manufactures spec also its not the side tones of the new King radio as I can hear myself talk. It may be that the unit itself is faulty but before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking - anyone with similar experience or ideas please. ? > Michael Dawson. G-PEGY. That sounds like an intentional feature, as the box has no way of knowing whether any ATC transmission is for you. If you spoke to P2 at the same time as ATC, hearing sidetone, you could miss an ATC call for you. Can P2 hear ATC too? If so, then, you're talking simultaneously to P2 would be a problem anyway. IOW, design philosophies here vary. As a pilot, I as pax prefer to hear ATC, and can shut up when I hear a call for P1. Nonpilots may not want the chatter, and won't shut up if they don't instantly react to the magic callsign as we do. Then you gotta gently whack 'em? :-) Best, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Leedham" <geoff(at)gleedham.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Intercom.
Date: Mar 05, 2002
King radio as I can hear myself talk.It may be that the unit itself is faulty but before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking - anyone with similar experience or ideas please. ? Michael Dawson. G-PEGY. Hi Michael, What intercom unit is it? I have a Flightcom 403MC unit which is factory set to allow incoming transmissions to mute the intercom. A jumper wire has to be cut to stop this happening. Geoff Leedham G_EOFS Trigear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: acetone & Nuclear Fusion : )
A hint of flim-flam, there. But if not, our acetone question is resolved. All will be immediately confiscated as a terrorist weapon. Any nail polish remover found during airport screening is 2-5 years in a federal pen, and one's entire family on the terrorist watch list.... Best, Fred F. > Tiny bubbles imploding in a solution of acetone may have generated nuclear > fusion, Russian and U.S. scientists said Monday, in an experiment that, if > confirmed, represents a giant advance in nuclear physics. > > The experiment was run in a series of beakers that would take up only a > corner of any tabletop, using what amounts to souped-up nail polish remover > and sound waves. > > > 1279815&shortdate=0305 > > So keep your acetone away from the stereo! > > SteveD. : ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2002
From: Augustene Brown <augustene(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
KarkelB; I have the 914 and have accumulated almost 400 hr. on the engine. Rotax recommends that unleaded auto gas of at least 92 octane be used in the 914 if possible, however if 100LL is used, oil changes must be at 25 hr. intervals instead of the 50 hr. interval with the auto fuel. Their reason is that on the 25 hr. cycle the oil will remove some of the lead that accumulates. For the first 150 hours we were using 100LL Plugs were fouling at about 50 to 60 hr. with lead. At about 100-125 hours we started to have problems with hard starting, rough running, etc. I took the a/c to Lockwood Aviation which is a Rotax service center in Sebring Fl. The gear box was taken apart and they cleaned the lead off the clutches, took both carbs off and cleaned the lead out of the jets. installed new plugs. After that, the engine ran great and I'm happy to say that in 250 hours running of auto fuel we have had no further problems. If we are on a cross country where we have to use 100LL we are using TCP at the rate of 1 ounce per 10 gal of fuel. This keeps the lead from accumulating in the engine. If you will go to Rotax web site at ( www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm )you can access their service documents for the 912 and also the 914. There is a service document for the 914 which goes into detail of which oil you should use if running auto fuel, and also if you are running 100LL Jim Brown N398JB KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote: > Hi folks, > just been reading the march issue of todays pilot magazine. > There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through a > paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines. Previously > i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now whats the > truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with long term > experince on either fuels with the rotax engine? > > regards Karim. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Date: Mar 05, 2002
Bob, No need to apologies, that's excellent advice, thanks - you just answered one of those little questions in the back of my mind! Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa XS monowheel 537M -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: 05 March 2002 16:06 Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ... Hi! Jeremy/Richard etc. In my humble opinion...... You don't need a dremmel for trimming (You do for other purposes) my trimming experiences were best accommodated by a knife trim at the critical time then a long sanding board to tidy up to a good straight line. Except if you miss time the knife part you'll need a hand held type fine toothed hacksaw blade initially. Sorry ...just trying to be helpful . Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ... Hopefully layups start this weekend - so I guess I better get a Dremel... I get enough grief about getting up at 5.45 to go to work... Jeremy Davey Europa XS monowheel 537M -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 02 March 2002 22:00 Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ... Aint it funny, whatever time you do the layup, the best time to knife trim is always 3a.m. in the morning!! Richard Iddon 533 -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ... No! No! Jeremy. You've got it wrong..... finish the lay-ups at about 2200 hours and at 0300 hours when she wakes for her feed you get to do the trimming, 'cos that's when it's ready and cuts like butter! Then when they've settled down you can creep back to bed ready to "over lie" !! Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt !!! Regards Bob Harrison G=PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ... Congratulations, Martin and Christine. I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up! Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa XS monowheel 537M -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43 Subject: New future Europa pilot ... Hi Folks, Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter. Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz. For those interested photos can be found at: http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa? Best wishes, Martin Tuck N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jean-philippe_neel(at)mail.schneider.fr
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Hi Jim Could tell me what is TCP? JPN F-PSLH N273 Augustene Brown (at)europaclub.org.uk le 05/03/2002 22:58:33 Veuillez rpondre forum(at)europaclub.org.uk Envoy par : forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Pour : forum(at)europaclub.org.uk cc : Objet : Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas KarkelB; I have the 914 and have accumulated almost 400 hr. on the engine. Rotax recommends that unleaded auto gas of at least 92 octane be used in the 914 if possible, however if 100LL is used, oil changes must be at 25 hr. intervals instead of the 50 hr. interval with the auto fuel. Their reason is that on the 25 hr. cycle the oil will remove some of the lead that accumulates. For the first 150 hours we were using 100LL Plugs were fouling at about 50 to 60 hr. with lead. At about 100-125 hours we started to have problems with hard starting, rough running, etc. I took the a/c to Lockwood Aviation which is a Rotax service center in Sebring Fl. The gear box was taken apart and they cleaned the lead off the clutches, took both carbs off and cleaned the lead out of the jets. installed new plugs. After that, the engine ran great and I'm happy to say that in 250 hours running of auto fuel we have had no further problems. If we are on a cross country where we have to use 100LL we are using TCP at the rate of 1 ounce per 10 gal of fuel. This keeps the lead from accumulating in the engine. If you will go to Rotax web site at ( www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm )you can access their service documents for the 912 and also the 914. There is a service document for the 914 which goes into detail of which oil you should use if running auto fuel, and also if you are running 100LL Jim Brown N398JB KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote: > Hi folks, > just been reading the march issue of todays pilot magazine. > There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through a > paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines. Previously > i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now whats the > truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with long term > experince on either fuels with the rotax engine? > > regards Karim. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
> Could tell me what is TCP? helps scavenge lead compounds from the combustion chamber - reduces it from sticking to plugs and valve stems. EU legislation means that it's no longer allowed over here - UK equivalents have been changed (reformulated) so that it's no longer effective, and imports are in practice not allowed (I've tried) M ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: Tennant@t-online.de (Barrington Tennant)
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
Hi Rob, I have had an airframe buffet on the final turn. It was quite clear and with a little power and a push on the stick went away. I was overweight (long range fual tank and corpulent son) and had to follow an ultralight in so was a little slow. I now never go below 70 kts into the turn to final. Barry Tennant Rob Housman schrieb: > > It's worth the bucks because it can save your bacon. Using some type of AOA > is the ONLY way you can be sure when the a/c is about to stall (has anyone > out there felt airframe buffet during a base to final turn and lived to tell > about it?), and the PSS "device" has no moving parts which made my decision > to buy it rather easy. > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > A070 > > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Richard Iddon > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > Being a relatively inexperienced pilot, I've never come across an AOA sensor > before, just a stall warner on the cherokees & cessna's I learned in. I've > looked at the web site but what are forum members experiences of this > equipment, is it worth the bucks and can I get one in the UK? > > Richard Iddon ( nearly finished my wings) 533 > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > PSS' website is http://www.angle-of-attack.com. The Sport costs $890, the > Professional $1500. > The major difference is in the display, and most purchasers ( according to > the company ) buy the > Sport, since it gives the same information, including synthesized voice > warnings, and it's a whole > lot smaller so it fits on the glareshield better. The Pro has a digital AOA > readout and a more > complicated display. > The last time I checked with PSS they would sell you the sensor alone for > $450. I'm not sure if > you pay a bit more in total to split your order this way. > > Has anyone out there used larger I.D. pneumatic tubing for their > Pitot-Static runs than the standard > 1/4" OD 1/8" ID supplied? > > Shaun > A207 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org> > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > > I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should > > probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have > > a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version > > have a stall warning horn? > > > > Lyle Antieau > > A137 > > > > > Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on > > > the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased > > > only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on > > > which version. > > > > > > Erich Trombley > > > A028 > > > > > > writes: > > >> Wow, what rapid responses! > > >> > > >> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings > > >> conundrum. > > >> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the > > >> airfoil > > >> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy > > >> switch. > > >> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit > > >> board with > > >> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be > > >> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root. > > >> > > >> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the > > >> product > > >> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some > > >> comments > > >> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being > > >> underdamped, > > >> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the > > >> software. > > >> > > >> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt > > >> to > > >> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little > > >> incentive > > >> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It > > >> needs to > > >> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window > > >> during > > >> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of > > >> the > > >> glareshield. > > >> > > >> Continue! > > >> > > >> Shaun > > >> A207 > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com> > > >> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > >> > > >> > > >> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not > > >> line > > >> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip > > >> to > > >> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts > > >> the > > >> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same > > >> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the > > >> lower port > > >> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole > > >> through > > >> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the > > >> cover > > >> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines > > >> out to > > >> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing > > >> wiring. > > >> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am > > >> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to > > >> include > > >> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa > > >> a/c. > > >> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap > > >> from gear > > >> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate, > > >> I've > > >> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will > > >> keep > > >> > you up dated. > > >> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting. > > >> Which I > > >> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the > > >> Europa > > >> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a > > >> chance to > > >> > see the many varietys we are doing. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Jim Nelson > > >> > > > >> > A058 N15JN > > >> > > > >> > > > >> writes: > > >> > > Shaun: > > >> > > I'm not going either.............:-( > > >> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so > > >> don't > > >> > > think > > >> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long > > >> chat, > > >> > > the nub > > >> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing > > >> that's > > >> > > critical > > >> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the > > >> other. > > >> > > He said > > >> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper > > >> readings > > >> > > of each. > > >> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the > > >> XS > > >> > > models. > > >> > > Ferg > > >> > > A064 > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gralfs, Jens" <Jens.Gralfs(at)Airbus.dasa.de>
Subject: bscripe
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Please take my e-ail address out of the europa forum ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: l Warning device
To All, Stall Warning Device As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is likely to be well below 100. Kind regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 05, 2002
Subject: leman strobes
Hi: Everyone out there who is using the single or double Kunzleman strobes on the Europa? They draw only 2 amps I read but I am concerned about their effectiveness, compared to the Wheelen line. has someone compared them? I see no reason to use certificated equipment but I do see every reason to use good quality gear with a good track record. I rather ask before I commit to purchase I am planning to put one on the fin, for daylight VFR operations only (as the Europa was originally conceived to be). Your comments are very much appreciated. Thanks, Christoph Both, #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
Date: Mar 20, 2002
For this reason I think it's advisable to have a stall warner or AOA indicator. Something which responds to aircraft weight, flaps and attitude rather than just flying on the ASI. I know after lots of hours people get to know their aircraft and fly different climb and approach speeds for different weights but I feel far happier with a simple stall warner that tells me when I am pushing a bit close to the limits. I fly from grass fields almost all the time and I am regularly in the circuit with slow A/C and microlights so often find myself holding back on finals. If you find yourself heavy on base and turn tighter than usual it could all unfold very quickly. Better to have a stall warner in my opinion. Jerry Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barrington Tennant" <Tennant@t-online.de> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > Hi Rob, > > I have had an airframe buffet on the final turn. It was quite clear and > with a little power and a push on the stick went away. > > I was overweight (long range fual tank and corpulent son) and had to > follow an ultralight in so was a little slow. > > I now never go below 70 kts into the turn to final. > > Barry Tennant > > Rob Housman schrieb: > > > > It's worth the bucks because it can save your bacon. Using some type of AOA > > is the ONLY way you can be sure when the a/c is about to stall (has anyone > > out there felt airframe buffet during a base to final turn and lived to tell > > about it?), and the PSS "device" has no moving parts which made my decision > > to buy it rather easy. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rob Housman > > A070 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > > Behalf Of Richard Iddon > > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > > > Being a relatively inexperienced pilot, I've never come across an AOA sensor > > before, just a stall warner on the cherokees & cessna's I learned in. I've > > looked at the web site but what are forum members experiences of this > > equipment, is it worth the bucks and can I get one in the UK? > > > > Richard Iddon ( nearly finished my wings) 533 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > > > PSS' website is http://www.angle-of-attack.com. The Sport costs $890, the > > Professional $1500. > > The major difference is in the display, and most purchasers ( according to > > the company ) buy the > > Sport, since it gives the same information, including synthesized voice > > warnings, and it's a whole > > lot smaller so it fits on the glareshield better. The Pro has a digital AOA > > readout and a more > > complicated display. > > The last time I checked with PSS they would sell you the sensor alone for > > $450. I'm not sure if > > you pay a bit more in total to split your order this way. > > > > Has anyone out there used larger I.D. pneumatic tubing for their > > Pitot-Static runs than the standard > > 1/4" OD 1/8" ID supplied? > > > > Shaun > > A207 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org> > > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > > > > I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should > > > probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have > > > a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version > > > have a stall warning horn? > > > > > > Lyle Antieau > > > A137 > > > > > > > Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on > > > > the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased > > > > only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on > > > > which version. > > > > > > > > Erich Trombley > > > > A028 > > > > > > > > writes: > > > >> Wow, what rapid responses! > > > >> > > > >> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings > > > >> conundrum. > > > >> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the > > > >> airfoil > > > >> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy > > > >> switch. > > > >> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit > > > >> board with > > > >> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be > > > >> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root. > > > >> > > > >> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the > > > >> product > > > >> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some > > > >> comments > > > >> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being > > > >> underdamped, > > > >> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the > > > >> software. > > > >> > > > >> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt > > > >> to > > > >> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little > > > >> incentive > > > >> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It > > > >> needs to > > > >> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window > > > >> during > > > >> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of > > > >> the > > > >> glareshield. > > > >> > > > >> Continue! > > > >> > > > >> Shaun > > > >> A207 > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com> > > > >> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not > > > >> line > > > >> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip > > > >> to > > > >> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts > > > >> the > > > >> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same > > > >> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the > > > >> lower port > > > >> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole > > > >> through > > > >> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the > > > >> cover > > > >> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines > > > >> out to > > > >> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing > > > >> wiring. > > > >> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am > > > >> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to > > > >> include > > > >> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa > > > >> a/c. > > > >> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap > > > >> from gear > > > >> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate, > > > >> I've > > > >> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will > > > >> keep > > > >> > you up dated. > > > >> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting. > > > >> Which I > > > >> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the > > > >> Europa > > > >> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a > > > >> chance to > > > >> > see the many varietys we are doing. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Jim Nelson > > > >> > > > > >> > A058 N15JN > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> writes: > > > >> > > Shaun: > > > >> > > I'm not going either.............:-( > > > >> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so > > > >> don't > > > >> > > think > > > >> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long > > > >> chat, > > > >> > > the nub > > > >> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing > > > >> that's > > > >> > > critical > > > >> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the > > > >> other. > > > >> > > He said > > > >> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper > > > >> readings > > > >> > > of each. > > > >> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the > > > >> XS > > > >> > > models. > > > >> > > Ferg > > > >> > > A064 > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > >> > > > > > >> > > In the event of problems contact > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
Date: Mar 06, 2002
> > I have had an airframe buffet on the final turn. It was quite clear and > with a little power and a push on the stick went away. > > I was overweight (long range fual tank and corpulent son) and had to > follow an ultralight in so was a little slow. > > I now never go below 70 kts into the turn to final. Chap who taught me to fly luscombes, and indeed taught me a great deal more (he had 20,000 hrs in GA aircraft) always said "never skid the turn to finals.... we call that the graveyard glide...." didn't mind if you slipped it, though. M ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: unsubscripe
Date: Mar 06, 2002
> Please take my e-ail address out of the europa forum There are instructions at the bottom of every list message... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Andy, Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this would be necessary) Thanks, Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Stall Warning device To All, Stall Warning Device As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is likely to be well below 100. Kind regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Support Site
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Graham Clarke expects to have available within a few days a new versiion of the Europa Simulator program which I put on the site on Monday, so it might be better to wait until then before downloading it (I will announce when it's there). John Cliff Europa Forum minder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: l planning
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Hi People, I have just been told about this handy panel planning tool whilst on the kitfox forum. It is very simple to use. Just select the type of panel you wish to fill, and select the goodies. I think that the right side of the europa panel is not quite in proportion at the bottom, but it is still pretty cool none the less. http://epanelbuilder.com/ You can have fun building an instrument panel you cannot afford to make in real life!! Ed /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
The EU strikes again!! regards, MP ----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rf. : Re:
Rotax 914-avgasor Mogas > > > Could tell me what is TCP? > > helps scavenge lead compounds from the combustion chamber - reduces it from > sticking to plugs and valve stems. > > EU legislation means that it's no longer allowed over here - UK equivalents > have been changed (reformulated) so that it's no longer effective, and > imports are in practice not allowed (I've tried) > > M > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: x 914-avgas or Mogas
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Hi All, I am somewhat interested in this issue. Here in the Mid West of USA you can generally count on auto gas containing alcohol and other additives. It appears the additives have a very bad effect on rubber hoes and the like, and alcohol has the ability to dissolve water which can come out of solution at cooler altitudes. My other concern is that auto gas is more volatile and I my be exposing myself to vapor lock. If I am correct in the above, then I believe that I am left with no choice but to use AV Gas. I was planning on using an additive to remove the lead. I'd be interested on anyone's views. Regards, Paul McAllister ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Hi Paul, I would have thought that a vapour lock situation would be unlikely if you were to use the tank return line, thus pumping fuel around continually to keep it cool. It wouldn't have a chance to heat up too much and cause bubbles; however, without a return line, the fuel will get hot as it hardly moves. Avgas ( I believe) is the same mix all year round whereas Mogas changes with the seasons in order to aid starting. Cheers Ed Quoting Paul McAllister : > Hi All, > > I am somewhat interested in this issue. Here in the Mid West of USA you > can > generally count on auto gas containing alcohol and other additives. > It > appears the additives have a very bad effect on rubber hoes and the > like, > and alcohol has the ability to dissolve water which can come out of > solution > at cooler altitudes. My other concern is that auto gas is more volatile > and > I my be exposing myself to vapor lock. > > If I am correct in the above, then I believe that I am left with no > choice > but to use AV Gas. I was planning on using an additive to remove the > lead. > I'd be interested on anyone's views. > > Regards, Paul McAllister > > > _ > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Date: Mar 06, 2002
To anyone in the UK who hadn't worked it out before, Kunzleman strobes are identical to Airworld strobes. Only that the price of the latter includes a contribution to Pete Smoothies pension fund. This may enable some cross-pond feedback. Duncan McFadyean On Tuesday, March 05, 2002 3:51 PM, CHRISTOPH BOTH [SMTP:christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca] wrote: > Hi: > > Everyone out there who is using the single or double Kunzleman > strobes on the Europa? They draw only 2 amps I read but I am > concerned about their effectiveness, compared to the Wheelen line. > has someone compared them? > > I see no reason to use certificated equipment but I do see every > reason to use good quality gear with a good track record. I rather ask > before I commit to purchase > > I am planning to put one on the fin, for daylight VFR operations only > (as the Europa was originally conceived to be). > > Your comments are very much appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Christoph Both, #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Initially upon completion of my plane, I used 93 octane mogas. Yes it is very volatile and I experienced vapor lock problems, due in part to the very hot temperatures in Florida. I switched to avgas and haven't had a single vapor lock problem since. Only recently have I been adding the TCP additive to my avgas, which is supposed to cut down on the buildup of lead on spark plugs and other internal parts. With 130 hours under my belt, so far, so good using avgas. Garry V. Stout Europa trigear District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas Hi All, I am somewhat interested in this issue. Here in the Mid West of USA you can generally count on auto gas containing alcohol and other additives. It appears the additives have a very bad effect on rubber hoes and the like, and alcohol has the ability to dissolve water which can come out of solution at cooler altitudes. My other concern is that auto gas is more volatile and I my be exposing myself to vapor lock. If I am correct in the above, then I believe that I am left with no choice but to use AV Gas. I was planning on using an additive to remove the lead. I'd be interested on anyone's views. Regards, Paul McAllister ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Subject: Re: Panel planning
This is cool! Cleve A198 On Wed, 06 March 2002, bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote: > > Hi People, > > I have just been told about this handy panel planning tool whilst on > the kitfox forum. It is very simple to use. Just select the type of > panel you wish to fill, and select the goodies. I think that the > right side of the europa panel is not quite in proportion at the > bottom, but it is still pretty cool none the less. > > http://epanelbuilder.com/ > > You can have fun building an instrument panel you cannot afford to > make in real life!! > > Ed > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: Augustene Brown <augustene(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Paul; I don't think you will have problem with vapor lock. Both the 912 and the 914 have a fuel return line to the tank. When the fuel pump is turned on fuel will flow to the carbs filling the bowls, the rest of the fuel will return to the tank. As long as the pump is running there is fuel in the lines. I've have to shut down at a towered airport more than once, due to cyl head temp at redline. When clearance is given for takeoff, the engine restarts within two or three blades, and I live in Florida. Jim Brown N398JB Paul McAllister wrote: > Hi All, > > I am somewhat interested in this issue. Here in the Mid West of USA you can > generally count on auto gas containing alcohol and other additives. It > appears the additives have a very bad effect on rubber hoes and the like, > and alcohol has the ability to dissolve water which can come out of solution > at cooler altitudes. My other concern is that auto gas is more volatile and > I my be exposing myself to vapor lock. > > If I am correct in the above, then I believe that I am left with no choice > but to use AV Gas. I was planning on using an additive to remove the lead. > I'd be interested on anyone's views. > > Regards, Paul McAllister > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Duncan beat me to the punch, but I have other information of possible use... The Kuntzleman strobe is sold in the UK as the Skyflash. I have not had good luck in obtaining photometric data from Kuntzleman, nor in obtaining the energy output of the power supply (the theory being that most flash tubes are of similar efficiency and therefore there's a simple correlation between power supply output and raw light output). I doubt that he's tested the unit in this manner. The response is, "try it, if you are not satisfied, you can return it". He verbally stated that the energy output of the unit is about 12 joules or so. I can't recall precisely, but it was low. I talked with Aeroflash, whose power unit pair draws about 4A; they stated that their energy output was on the order of 14 joules and did not meet current FAA regs. Their units were designed largely for OEM replacement for build dates before the new regs took effect. Cessna used them heavily. Whelen, on the other hand, was very helpful, offering a rule of thumb for light output - it turns out that about 20 joules produces 400 candela only with a lensed strobe unit that matches the heavily horizontally weighted light pattern specified in the regs. This lens concentrates the energy of the flash by about 3-4x; an unlensed strobe with a 20 joule supply would only be able to provide about 100-150 candela. Whelen manufactures a single-pulse low energy strobe supply that puts out precisely 20 joules and consumes 4A, and meets FAA regs. Their comet flash unit puts out about twice that much in a 4-flash grouping that demands 7A. Kuntzleman claims a highly efficient power supply; may be true. However, I don't think that the strobe head is lensed, which means that the effective candela is probably fairly low. To the naked eye, this doesn't mean that much - a 4:1 difference in brightness is not obvious, since the eye's response is logarithmic. Your FAA/CAA inspector may have his/her own opinions about your choice of strobe unit, but lotsa US homebuilders are running with Aeroflash units and can be seen at night OK. Shaun ---- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> Subject: Kunzleman strobes > Hi: > > Everyone out there who is using the single or double Kunzleman > strobes on the Europa? They draw only 2 amps I read but I am > concerned about their effectiveness, compared to the Wheelen line. > has someone compared them? > > I see no reason to use certificated equipment but I do see every > reason to use good quality gear with a good track record. I rather ask > before I commit to purchase > > I am planning to put one on the fin, for daylight VFR operations only > (as the Europa was originally conceived to be). > > Your comments are very much appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Christoph Both, #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com>
Subject: Re: grounding ROTAX 912/914
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Following the recent discussion on the forum regarding whether the shielding screens of the cables to the ignition switches for Rotax engines should be grounded at one or both ends, I asked Nigel Beale of Skydrive (the UK Rotax importer) to contact Rotax again and ask whether their advice had changed since 1996 when we queried the double-ended grounding recommendation. We also asked whether there was any difference between the 912 and the 914 ignition circuits in this respect. You will see from Nigel's reply, reproduced below, that Rotax are still recommending grounding at both ends. I cannot copy the enclosures to the forum, but they show the same recommendation for both the 912 and the 914. However, in answer to our query they do point out that the electrical circuit's design for EMC and EMI does depend on each individual wiring installation -- it is not therefore necessarily "wrong" to ground the screen at one end only. Remember that the screening is there both to prevent electrical noise from the ignition circuits causing interference to the rest of the aircraft system (e.g. ignition noise on radio) and also to prevent spurious signals (e.g. from radio transmissions or strobe circuits) from causing false triggering of the ignition or damage to the ignition electronics. Conventionally, as others have pointed out, the best shielding effect is normally obtained with the screen grounded at one end only, to avoid "ground loops". This is why in 1996 we asked Rotax to confirm their recommendation before we repeated it in the Europa circuit diagram. Rotax stated that their tests had shown they obtained better results from grounding both ends. I would not expect the difference between single ended and double ended grounding to be very great. Unless there were a very powerful source of pulsed radio transmissions or strobe energy with the antenna sited (or cabling routed) very close to the shielded ignition cables, it is most unlikely that you would cause spurious ignition triggering, still less damage the ignition electronics. Unless anyone comes up with a good reason to do otherwise, I would suggest that those who are concerned with the possibility that double grounding provides a parallel earth return path (which could be overloaded in the event of a fault with the main ground return) could safely test their installation by running the engine with only one shield end grounded. For preference, I would choose to ground at the engine end. One circuit only could be modified in the first instance, and comparisons made by switching off each ignition in turn. Following satisfactory ground running, with no additional radio interference (and certainly no spurious ignition triggering), an air test should be carried out. If OK, the second circuit could be modified. Before making any modifications to your electrical circuit, you may wish to check with the person who inspected and passed the original electrical installation. I must emphasise that, as Rotax say, it is the entire installation that must be considered when deciding what is best for any particular aircraft. I can only offer this as guidance as to what you may wish to look for. Fly safely Mike Europa Club Safety Officer Dear Mike, Following your recent email. I have today received the following reply from Rotax. Hope it answers the question. I have also copied it to Andy Draper. Best Regards Nigel >Dear Nigel, Please be aware that the setup and installation of ignition switches and shorting cables have to be done according to the current relevant installation manual. See excerpts of the relevant pages enclosed. Be aware that according to these instructions the shielding braid has to be grounded on both ends. See relevant wording on page 47 in IM 912 F and page 80 in IM 914 F. The wiring diagrams show a general sketch. The details are given in the text. Further on in discussion with our R&D technicians a general rule on installation in aircraft is not that easy to answer, because in regard to the electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) and electromagnetic interference (EMI) the wiring has big influence and has to be checked for each aircraft installation. Depends e. g. on routing, components/material used, grounding setup etc. For reference it would be an idea to recheck the installation know-how and their experience on EMC and EMI of the whole installation with an aircraft manufacturer e. g. DIAMOND, who is operating certified aircrafts. Best regards Hannes (See attached file: pagesofInstallationManual914F. pdf)(See attached file: pagesofInstallationManual912F. pdf) << File: pagesofInstallationManual914F.pdf >> << File: pagesofInstallationManual912F.pdf >> [Note: not included in message to Europa forum] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
Gary, You don't have to DESTROY your wing to install the AOA. Come on over and see my instillation or wait until I get it to the dinner (if I have it ready to do that). It really is not to difficult to do it. I can't remember if you have wing lights. If you do then all you do is run the small urethane tubes in the same channel. Go through the quick disconnects and on to the CPU in the fuselage. It really is easy once you see how someone has done it. Jim writes: > Andy, > > Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the > US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions > available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity > before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and > am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this > would be necessary) > > Thanks, > > Garry V. Stout > > District Manager, AT&T Business Services > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 > > *****Please note new e-mail address****** > > > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Stall Warning device > > > To All, > > Stall Warning Device > > As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the > Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. > > The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying > with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was > developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs > and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed > for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as > straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. > > Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing > leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a > small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted > for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. > > Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the > instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the > pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has > not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. > > The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is > expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is > likely to be well below 100. > > Kind regards > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
I know some disagree, but there are some things to consider. For day use, even minimum brightness (400 candles) per our current Regs. is not effective, IMO. It is more than necessary to be able to see them at X distance, as flashes on the image of what is also appears to be a plane. It is necessary that the flashes attract one's attention to something which is not easily visible otherwise during an intentional scan, preferably when one is not actively scanning. To this end, rules here for obstruction lighting require 140,000-270,000 candles in daylight, on the basis that the presence of a tall tower or smokestack be evident before it is otherwise visible at hazardous short distance in the haze. I've found no gov't recommendation that daytime mid-air collisions be reduced by using strobes in daylight, and our NTSB constantly nags the FAA to do things. Because statistically, collisions here are infrequent, happen in good visibility, occur in airport traffic patterns, and commonly involve the high-wing vs. low-wing, or at least one very fast aircraft - the neither ever saw it coming type of accident. I would at least opt for the high candles, or just pocket the money. I will install to be legal at night. Best, Fred F. > Hi: > > Everyone out there who is using the single or double Kunzleman > strobes on the Europa? They draw only 2 amps I read but I am > concerned about their effectiveness, compared to the Wheelen line. > has someone compared them? > > I see no reason to use certificated equipment but I do see every > reason to use good quality gear with a good track record. I rather ask > before I commit to purchase > > I am planning to put one on the fin, for daylight VFR operations only > (as the Europa was originally conceived to be). > > Your comments are very much appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Christoph Both, #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: .....Europa Video
Date: Mar 06, 2002
Hey all N.A. folks..... remember the attached "A Plane is Born" thread? The Europa Web site now states that the Discovery wings channel is replaying the series starting April 7th every sunday @ 8:30pm. Even if the program's merits may be questioned by some, I'll be watching and taping it for shure. Best still, it's replacing the "From the Ground Up" lets build an RV8 series. Maybe some metal-heads may be enticed to join in the Europa fun when they find their favorite program has been replaced. :-) For those few of us in Ontario, Canada, what better reason to take advantage of Rogers cable's promo-pricing of their digital services - which include the wings channel. Cheers, Pete A239 -----Original Message----- Subject: OK then.....Europa Video Cheers, Jeff (#191) has asked if I will keep a list of those who wish a two-box copy of A PLANE IS BORN. UKP20 is the present price and 50 orders for NTSC format is the minimum required. I'll keep the list, so if you want a copy (don't crap out later) let me know and will keep a report of progress along the way. So far: Ferg Jeff Cheers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
Hi Garry, I'll certainly post an announcement on the Forum when the kits are ready and there should be no problem providing the instructions electronically. Best Regards Andy Draper Technical Director e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com >>> "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" 06/03/02 13:26:05 >>> Andy, Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this would be necessary) Thanks, Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Stall Warning device To All, Stall Warning Device As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is likely to be well below 100. Kind regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Subject: ess search: Dave DeFord
Hello: I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, A135? In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source for the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure the head pressure of fule in the tank. Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part source? Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to accurately meansure fuel content? Is it reliable in the readings, and impervious to fuel? How much does the part cost? Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Jim, Great news! I can't wait to see how you did it. Yes, I have wingtip lights and strobes, but remember, I have classic wings too. Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stall Warning device Gary, You don't have to DESTROY your wing to install the AOA. Come on over and see my instillation or wait until I get it to the dinner (if I have it ready to do that). It really is not to difficult to do it. I can't remember if you have wing lights. If you do then all you do is run the small urethane tubes in the same channel. Go through the quick disconnects and on to the CPU in the fuselage. It really is easy once you see how someone has done it. Jim writes: > Andy, > > Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the > US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions > available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity > before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and > am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this > would be necessary) > > Thanks, > > Garry V. Stout > > District Manager, AT&T Business Services > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 > > *****Please note new e-mail address****** > > > > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Stall Warning device > > > To All, > > Stall Warning Device > > As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the > Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. > > The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying > with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was > developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs > and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed > for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as > straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. > > Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing > leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a > small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted > for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. > > Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the > instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the > pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has > not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. > > The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is > expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is > likely to be well below 100. > > Kind regards > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Great! Thanks Andy. Will you be coming to Sun N Fun? Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stall Warning device Hi Garry, I'll certainly post an announcement on the Forum when the kits are ready and there should be no problem providing the instructions electronically. Best Regards Andy Draper Technical Director e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com >>> "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" 06/03/02 13:26:05 >>> Andy, Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this would be necessary) Thanks, Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Stall Warning device To All, Stall Warning Device As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is likely to be well below 100. Kind regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Honeywell Sensors has a stock look up page for this transducer at http://locator.sensing.honeywell.com/wheretobuy.taf?_function=Buy&_UserRefer ence=7F0000014651E27AA1801597604A3C87787F There are three distributors in the USA - Gopher electronics offers them in single unit quantities at $21.73 each. You can use this page to find distributors anywhere in the world, and their quanities on hand. This is the same sensor that Tony K. used for his fuel gauge, (and for which he is selling controller chips and build/install instructions), and which has been flying in Bob Harrison's plane for over a year. Check the bulletin board archives for the recent fuel gauge thread. Shaun A207 ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> Subject: Address search: Dave DeFord > Hello: > > I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, > A135? > > In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source for > the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure > the head pressure of fule in the tank. > > Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part > source? Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to > accurately meansure fuel content? Is it reliable in the readings, and > impervious to fuel? How much does the part cost? > > Christoph Both > #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning device
Yes Garry, I'll be at Sun 'n' Fun. If all goes well, I might even have a stall warning kit in my suitcase! See you there. Regards Andy >>> "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" 07/03/02 13:56:41 >>> Great! Thanks Andy. Will you be coming to Sun N Fun? Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stall Warning device Hi Garry, I'll certainly post an announcement on the Forum when the kits are ready and there should be no problem providing the instructions electronically. Best Regards Andy Draper Technical Director e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com >>> "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" 06/03/02 13:26:05 >>> Andy, Please post a note on this forum when the kits are available in the US. Would it also be possible to make the installation instructions available on a web site so that we could view them for complexity before committing to purchase. (I have a completed Classic wing and am not keen to destroy the wing to install the AOA, if in fact this would be necessary) Thanks, Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Stall Warning device To All, Stall Warning Device As stall warners and AOA devices have been discussed a lot on the Europa forum lately, I thought I should pass on the following. The Europa demonstrators G-KITZ and G-KITS have both been flying with a simple but effective audible stall warning device which was developed in house with Don Dykins help. Having ironed out the bugs and proved the system thoroughly, a kit of parts is being developed for fitment to the Europa XS wing, although it should be just as straight forward to fit to the Classic wing also. Basically, this stall warner works by a tube fitted to the wing leading edge connected to an air pressure switch which activates a small piezo electric horn. Of course, the horn could be substituted for a lamp or the lamp added to the horn, if so desired. Fitting the tube to a completed wing is described in the instructions but if the wing (Starboard preferred so that the pitot/static lines don't become mixed up with the stall warner) has not been closed fitting is somewhat easier. The kit of parts, complete with straight forward wiring loom, is expected to be available in the next few weeks and the price is likely to be well below 100. Kind regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net>
Subject: pa Builders Dinner
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Hi All, Just a reminder to everyone on the forum. I need to hear from you by tomorrow (March 8'th) if you wish to attend the builder dinner at Sun 'n Fun. I need to reserve catering etc.. It would be a shame to miss out on all the fun this year. We will be having a live band, great foot, a few kegs etc... This is the best opportunity to meet fellow Europa builders. We will also be making name tags for everyone this year so please let me know the names of any guests if you haven't already. If you can't respond by the 8'th, please contact me as soon as you can so I can try to make special arrangements for you. See you at Sun 'n Fun! John Hurst Europa Aircraft Lakeland, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
John, Please put me down for one dinner ticket. Thanks, Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Europa Builders Dinner Hi All, Just a reminder to everyone on the forum. I need to hear from you by tomorrow (March 8'th) if you wish to attend the builder dinner at Sun 'n Fun. I need to reserve catering etc.. It would be a shame to miss out on all the fun this year. We will be having a live band, great foot, a few kegs etc... This is the best opportunity to meet fellow Europa builders. We will also be making name tags for everyone this year so please let me know the names of any guests if you haven't already. If you can't respond by the 8'th, please contact me as soon as you can so I can try to make special arrangements for you. See you at Sun 'n Fun! John Hurst Europa Aircraft Lakeland, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: sight.........
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Cheers, Enough periodicals have now mentionned the future loss of highoctane lowlead fuels worldwide. These are not available in many parts of the world now. These periodicals have also discussed the emergence of a number of diesel entries into the homebuilder's library of possibilities. I emailled EAA as a memeber and asked them who was guru of the aero-diesel world, and when the next article on diesels would appear. It was most dissappointing to get the reply that NO ONE specialised in aircraft diesels in their (our) organisation, and that if I learned anything, they would be pleased to hear of it! Now that's truly experimental! Ferg Europa A064 PS: I note that KitPlanes' latest Engine Survey edition mentions only one diesel in passing - Soche! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
From: Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com>
Christopher , According to the Builders list, here is the info you requested: David Deford, 2143 Foxswallow Rd, Pleasanton, CA 94566-5550 'phone 925-484-2398, Email davedefore(at)home.com Regards, Dale A140 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Corbett" <David.Corbett(at)farmline.com>
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Hello Christoph, I have both Airworld (= Kunzleman) strobes and nav lights on my wingtips. I have not compared my strobes against any others, but I am told that they are fully effective! They cause no interference to my full radio fit, and do not use any significant power. I am running my full panel (but with vacuum flight instruments) without the optional Rotax alternator. David UK 265 G-BZAM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Hello Christoph, David DeFord and I used two pressure transducers, one under each seat, to measure the fuel tank head pressures, left and right. We also have a 3-axis accelerometer and a temperature sensor mounted with the starboard side pressure transducer. A micro processor samples the transducers and displays fuel quantity on an LCD display in the panel. We calibrated the system by filling the tank in 1 gallon increments, deriving formulas that compensate for tank shape and attitude. Although initial accuracy seemed in the +- 0.2 gallon range, we found that the pressure transducers are not very well compensated for temperature, causing errors of up to 3 gallons at various temperatures. We intend to remove the unit soon and place it in an environmental chamber to allow us to better compensate for temperature in software. Note: Because our pressure transducers are located in front of the tank, we need the pitch accelerometer to compensate for pitch attitude. If the pressure transducers were located near the center of the tank, fore and aft, this would not be needed. Terry Seaver A135/N135TD Pleasanton, CA CHRISTOPH BOTH wrote: > Hello: > > I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, > A135? > > In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source for > the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure > the head pressure of fule in the tank. > > Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part > source? Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to > accurately meansure fuel content? Is it reliable in the readings, and > impervious to fuel? How much does the part cost? > > Christoph Both > #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, > A135? Can't help on that one. > In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source > for > the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure > the head pressure of fule in the tank. > > Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part > source? Both RS Components and Farnell stock this part. Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to > accurately meansure fuel content? Yes, See http://www.kaon.co.nz/fuelgaugev3.pdf. >>Is it reliable in the readings, and impervious to fuel? It is reliable and usage to date shows it is impervious to fuel. The longest fuel exposure I personally know of is over two years with no problems. How much does the part cost? Around USD40 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2002
From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net>
Subject: ming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
>Hopefully layups start this weekend - so I guess I better get a Dremel Some time back, before I actually started doing my own layups on the aircraft parts, I mentioned the use of a diamond wheel on a 115mm angle grinder for trimming fibreglass (I'd been using one to trim the heavy chopped-strand mat polyester-resin layups on my covered trailer). This was comprehensively pooh-poohed by all and sundry as much too heavy and unnecessary, and I retired into my corner again. However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. Of course, care is needed to avoid cutting where I don't want to cut, but that applies generally. The dust seems finer than with the Dremel, but there also sems to be less of it. Of course I wear a mask and a suit, and have the big workshop filter running during and for some time afterwards to clean up the air. I shine a bright light through the glass from the foam side and can cut with pleasing precision, needing only a rub with a tungsten carbide file or the loooong Perma-Grit sander to get (eg) trailing edges straight and in the right place. The Dremel is, of course, valuable for many other things. I don't feel happy about knife trimming, quite apart from the other things I could be doing instead of watching and waiting for it to reach the critical stage. When it gets to that stiff condition, intermolecular bonds are forming. I can't see that fiddling about with it at that point is going to help matters any. There is going to be all sorts of small stresses and strains happening where the knife is working or the other hand is holding the edge, and that could damage the quality of the bonding locally. On the other hand, it _may_ not do any harm, but as I can't think of any mechanism by which knife trimming can be imparting improvement, I'm very happy to wait until the layup is fully cured and use the diamond wheel next time I'm awake. My experience - your mileage may vary ... regards Rowland | PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623 | Europa builder #435 G-ROWI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Hi Rowland I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit although that too has its uses. What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or pad saw. all IMHO Ed > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Anyone had any experience with this antenna, only if it works then it will save me (and probably many of you) a healthy wad. http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.griffin/antenna.htm I found it on the Blue Mountain Avionics web site. Basically it is a plan for a very simple DIY GPS antenna that as far as I can see, can be mounted in my redundant fuel filler position on top of the fusalage with one plate outside in the recess and the other suspended inside underneath perhaps. It could be mounted such that a cover can be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 on a teardrop unit from Adams!!! Ed /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
It could be mounted such that a cover can be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 on a teardrop unit from Adams!!! I'd mount it in the roof space between the doors. That way you don't have any extra work to do. GPS reception under the skin at that point is excellent on a Garmin GPS35 receiver. Good luck with trimming the copper plate to an accuracy of 0.1mm :-) Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 07, 2002
ATTN: Bizarro Yes, I have built it and recommended it to the local radio club - as amateur licensees, like pilots, are keen to spend $10 saving 15cents. It works. Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> Subject: DIY GPS Antenna > Anyone had any experience with this antenna, only if it works then it > will save me (and probably many of you) a healthy wad. > > http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.griffin/antenna.htm > > > I found it on the Blue Mountain Avionics web site. Basically it is a > plan for a very simple DIY GPS antenna that as far as I can see, can > be mounted in my redundant fuel filler position on top of the > fusalage with one plate outside in the recess and the other suspended > inside underneath perhaps. It could be mounted such that a cover can > be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 on > a teardrop unit from Adams!!! > > Ed > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Dave DeFord email address probably isn't the @home.com address you gave. @home went belly up and all the email addresses have changed. It may be davedefore(at)cox.net Some of our friends in CA now use the cox suffix. Hope this helps. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Hetrick" <gdale2(at)juno.com> Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord > Christopher > , > According to the Builders list, here is the info you requested: > David Deford, 2143 Foxswallow Rd, Pleasanton, CA 94566-5550 > 'phone 925-484-2398, Email davedefore(at)home.com > Regards, > Dale > A140 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Saving 15 cents, you are obviously not from around these parts. You know, we didn't get called rip-off Britain for nothing!! :-) Anyway, seeing as it works, I shall make it and fit it between the doors as per Tonys suggestion. Thanks Eddie Quoting Fergus Kyle : > ATTN: Bizarro > Yes, I have built it and recommended it to the local radio club - as > amateur > licensees, like pilots, are keen to spend $10 saving 15cents. > It works. > Ferg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> > Subject: DIY GPS Antenna > > > > Anyone had any experience with this antenna, only if it works then > it > > will save me (and probably many of you) a healthy wad. > > > > http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.griffin/antenna.htm > > > > > > I found it on the Blue Mountain Avionics web site. Basically it is a > > plan for a very simple DIY GPS antenna that as far as I can see, can > > be mounted in my redundant fuel filler position on top of the > > fusalage with one plate outside in the recess and the other > suspended > > inside underneath perhaps. It could be mounted such that a cover can > > be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 on > > a teardrop unit from Adams!!! > > > > Ed > > > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > > > _ > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > _ > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Eddie, Very fine. One note: It might be a good idea to get someone to test the antenna for resonance on the required freq. As Tony says, "good luck on sizing to .01inches" (or some such remark). The finished product operates with fairly tight parameters and an antenna analyser gave me about twice the reception with a little tweaking. Cheers, Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna > Saving 15 cents, you are obviously not from around these parts. You > know, we didn't get called rip-off Britain for nothing!! :-) > > Anyway, seeing as it works, I shall make it and fit it between the > doors as per Tonys suggestion. Thanks > > Eddie > > > Quoting Fergus Kyle : > > > ATTN: Bizarro > > Yes, I have built it and recommended it to the local radio club - as > > amateur > > licensees, like pilots, are keen to spend $10 saving 15cents. > > It works. > > Ferg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> > > Subject: DIY GPS Antenna > > > > > > > Anyone had any experience with this antenna, only if it works then > > it > > > will save me (and probably many of you) a healthy wad. > > > > > > http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.griffin/antenna.htm > > > > > > > > > I found it on the Blue Mountain Avionics web site. Basically it > is a > > > plan for a very simple DIY GPS antenna that as far as I can see, > can > > > be mounted in my redundant fuel filler position on top of the > > > fusalage with one plate outside in the recess and the other > > suspended > > > inside underneath perhaps. It could be mounted such that a cover > can > > > be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 > on > > > a teardrop unit from Adams!!! > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > > > > > > _ > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > > > _ > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
>> The finished product operates with fairly tight parameters and an antenna analyser gave me about twice the reception with a little tweaking. That's not surprising when you consider that GPS signals are so faint that they don't register against the earth's inherent background noise! Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Actually, Dave's new e-mail is davedeford(at)attbi.com Terry Seaver John & Amy Eckel wrote: > Dave DeFord email address probably isn't the @home.com address you gave. > @home went belly up and all the email addresses have changed. It may be > davedefore(at)cox.net > > Some of our friends in CA now use the cox suffix. Hope this helps. > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dale Hetrick" <gdale2(at)juno.com> > Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord > > > Christopher > > , > > According to the Builders list, here is the info you requested: > > David Deford, 2143 Foxswallow Rd, Pleasanton, CA 94566-5550 > > 'phone 925-484-2398, Email davedefore(at)home.com > > Regards, > > Dale > > A140 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Hi! All Just for the record! Since it matters not to me now ! If the knife is< buggering> the lay up then you have not discovered the right time to do it after the layup is completed. Get the timing right it cuts like butter. The only reason I'm being so pedantic on this issue is that I would be sorry that those new builders coming on behind didn't enjoy the benefit of it. If you are really brave and cut very close to the finish line there will be an absolute minimum of sanding dust. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] Hi Rowland I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit although that too has its uses. What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or pad saw. all IMHO Ed > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
Date: Mar 07, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna > Saving 15 cents, you are obviously not from around these parts. You > know, we didn't get called rip-off Britain for nothing!! :-) > > Anyway, seeing as it works, I shall make it and fit it between the > doors as per Tonys suggestion. Thanks > Eddie: Yes, actually I was thinking of the same place, but am looking at a cockpit-air exhaust top front, which might just be on top of the antenna, with the air exiting THROUGH it to save space. Cheers, Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Foresight.........
Just out is an excellent article on disels by Miles McCallum in May issue of Custom Planes. He cites the lower cost of avgas in the U.S. as a factor in lagging development. It could be that EAA and AOPA don't judge the elimination of avgas as even politically feasible without a substitute. The aircraft industry would go crazy, since recertification for lower than 100LL would start a new 18-year statute of repose for tort liability. Out-of-production aircraft, or those with out-of-production engines, would become scrap. The extensive use of piston planes in the petroleum, ranching, and package delivery (feeder) industries, indirectly by the airlines, by states-cities-counties in emergency response, and agriculture, pose a significant lobby. Even the environmentalists would be conflicted due to piston A/C use for wildlife survey, public and private. Documents on EPA's web site are dated (nothing new) and recognize the cost/safety issues involved. Bit of a shame, as per the article, the benefits are quite attractive. Best, Fred F. Fergus Kyle wrote: > > Cheers, > Enough periodicals have now mentionned the future loss of > highoctane lowlead fuels worldwide. These are not available in many parts of > the world now. These periodicals have also discussed the emergence of a > number of diesel entries into the homebuilder's library of possibilities. > I emailled EAA as a memeber and asked them who was guru of the > aero-diesel world, and when the next article on diesels would appear. > It was most dissappointing to get the reply that NO ONE > specialised in aircraft diesels in their (our) organisation, and that if I > learned anything, they would be pleased to hear of it! > Now that's truly experimental! > Ferg Europa A064 > PS: I note that KitPlanes' latest Engine Survey edition mentions only one > diesel in passing - Soche! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PreDial(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
Hi John, Heather and I are planning to be a Sun N Fun and the dinner. See you then. Jim & Heather Butcher A185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: , ferg and diesels
Date: Mar 07, 2002
"since recertification for lower than 100LL would start a new 18-year statute of repose for tort liability. " Fred, Who am I to argue - I don't even know what the above means - except that there's the devil to pay. Nevertheless we are getting nearer to the day when so few commercial aircraft (non-turbine) will demand the product that I'm sure it won't be available in Canada, nor probably in Mexico, and you're hard put to find it in about 75% of the world unless you make special arrangements - and the cost will be a factor. There goes exterior visits. Whereas turbo will soon be universal, even at Ma-and-Pa fields (I think) in order to cater to a new breed of engine. I'm sure there will be conversion 'kits' and all kinds of schemes for the change. I believe price will be the final decider - something like 80/87. You can have it, but there'll be a surcharge on small orders (turbo goes in big batches when it goes into most tanks). Naturally, I hope you're right. Who wishes bad things on buddies? I just think that the advantages are much the same as digital instrumentation - possible. Nevertheless, this discussion seems to have escaped the large periodicals, eh? I don't think that's 'experimental'. Regards, Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 2002
From: JW <xs191(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
I support point of knife trimming. The results are far superior to anything you can do with any grinder, and it is very easy to do. However... The timing is absolutely critical. There is a point in time during the curing process where the layup is sort of rubbery. A sharp utility knife will quite easily cut it and leave a beautiful edge that requires no grinding at all. No, it won't 'bugger' up the layup. Sometimes it isn't even necessary to sand the edge. I used this process for all my closeouts. Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. Jeff bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote: > Hi Rowland > > I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they > work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit > although that too has its uses. > > What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger > up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only > twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or > pad saw. > > all IMHO > > Ed > > > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
Date: Mar 07, 2002
John, Graham and I will be there. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> Subject: Europa Builders Dinner > > Hi All, > > Just a reminder to everyone on the forum. I need to hear from you by > tomorrow (March 8'th) if you wish to attend the builder dinner at Sun 'n > Fun. I need to reserve catering etc.. > > It would be a shame to miss out on all the fun this year. We will be having > a live band, great foot, a few kegs etc... This is the best opportunity to > meet fellow Europa builders. We will also be making name tags for everyone > this year so please let me know the names of any guests if you haven't > already. > > If you can't respond by the 8'th, please contact me as soon as you can so I > can try to make special arrangements for you. > > See you at Sun 'n Fun! > > John Hurst > Europa Aircraft > Lakeland, FL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
>> Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. Which, as somebody has already pointed out, usually occurs at 3 am! Why is that? Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Put me down for a pair. James Thursby -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Europa Aircraft Subject: Europa Builders Dinner Hi All, Just a reminder to everyone on the forum. I need to hear from you by tomorrow (March 8'th) if you wish to attend the builder dinner at Sun 'n Fun. I need to reserve catering etc.. It would be a shame to miss out on all the fun this year. We will be having a live band, great foot, a few kegs etc... This is the best opportunity to meet fellow Europa builders. We will also be making name tags for everyone this year so please let me know the names of any guests if you haven't already. If you can't respond by the 8'th, please contact me as soon as you can so I can try to make special arrangements for you. See you at Sun 'n Fun! John Hurst Europa Aircraft Lakeland, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: y Hinge Straightedge
Date: Mar 07, 2002
Phase 1 kitbuilders: -3 hinges can be placed in perfect alignment with each other by using 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" thick aluminum angle of an appropriate length. Place the angle opening up, butt the hinge against the inside edge of the upright leg, place a 1/8" stick on top of the hinge, and clamp. The hinge center will fall exactly on the edge of the horizontal leg. Offer up that edge to the hinge flange and proceed. Perfect alignment, very light. 1" x 1" x 1/8" angle will work for -5 hinges with a strip of tape or two on the upright leg to take up the few tenths of a mm difference in width. Feeling like Martha Stewart Shaun A207 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Having tried knife, hacksaw blade and grinder and found disadvantages with each, I tried a Tennon Saw. This is just a wood saw with very fine teeth. Virtually no dust, very accurate straight lines. You can get them without the reinforcing strip at the top of the saw blade. These are best. Brian Davies kit 454 ----- Original Message ----- From: "JW" <xs191(at)attbi.com> Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] > I support point of knife trimming. The results are far superior to > anything you can do with any grinder, and it is very easy to do. > However... The timing is absolutely critical. There is a point in time > during the curing process where the layup is sort of rubbery. A sharp > utility knife will quite easily cut it and leave a beautiful edge that > requires no grinding at all. No, it won't 'bugger' up the layup. > Sometimes it isn't even necessary to sand the edge. I used this process > for all my closeouts. Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. > > Jeff > > bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi Rowland > > > > I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they > > work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit > > although that too has its uses. > > > > What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger > > up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only > > twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or > > pad saw. > > > > all IMHO > > > > Ed > > > > > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > > > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > > > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > > > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > > > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > > > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 22, 2002
Suggest you use small diamond wheels rather than the Dremel ones. They last 100 times longer and don't break that easily. I find the permagrit one has too much inertia and is uncomfortable to use although I love their hand tools. I am getting some diamond wheels soon for myself and a couple of friends. I don't know if I can get them cheap on a bigger order. If you're interested let me know. They were about 5 each last time I bought a couple. I also use a 115 mm grinder fitted with a regular sanding disc for some trimming and neatening together with a power file and metal cutting band saw. The band saw, bought used for 40 is surprisingly good at cutting carbon composites, aluminium sheet, bolts, bits of metal and just about anything you can cut with a hack saw. Jerry Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown ----- Original Message ----- From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] > Hi Rowland > > I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they > work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit > although that too has its uses. > > What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger > up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only > twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or > pad saw. > > all IMHO > > Ed > > > > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 08, 2002
I concur with Brian. I bought a dead cheap, hard tooth, 'toolbox saw' from B&Q. can't remember how much exactly but certainly less than a tenner. Blade no thicker than a hacksaw, about 18tpi but with a proper saw handle. Works a treat for trimming and also sawing fully cured layups. Have used it a lot and still going strong. Cheap enough to chuck away & buy a replacement if it blunts. Richard Iddon 533 -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] Having tried knife, hacksaw blade and grinder and found disadvantages with each, I tried a Tennon Saw. This is just a wood saw with very fine teeth. Virtually no dust, very accurate straight lines. You can get them without the reinforcing strip at the top of the saw blade. These are best. Brian Davies kit 454 ----- Original Message ----- From: "JW" <xs191(at)attbi.com> Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] > I support point of knife trimming. The results are far superior to > anything you can do with any grinder, and it is very easy to do. > However... The timing is absolutely critical. There is a point in time > during the curing process where the layup is sort of rubbery. A sharp > utility knife will quite easily cut it and leave a beautiful edge that > requires no grinding at all. No, it won't 'bugger' up the layup. > Sometimes it isn't even necessary to sand the edge. I used this process > for all my closeouts. Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. > > Jeff > > bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi Rowland > > > > I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they > > work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit > > although that too has its uses. > > > > What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger > > up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only > > twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or > > pad saw. > > > > all IMHO > > > > Ed > > > > > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > > > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > > > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > > > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > > > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > > > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: ly To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
It seems probable that several messages have been posted to the forum since we changed over (including one by me!) which were actually intended to go to the author of a posted message and not to the general distibution. As you know, the list behaviour was changed to prevent the inadvertant loss of messages from the inverse effect, not to encourage broadcasting of essentially private material. To restate the current default position, if you Reply to a message from the forum the reply will NOT go to the message author but will go to the forum. This is not unique to the forum, for example the Aeroelectric List, to which some of us subscribe, behaves in the same way. To defeat this behaviour (i.e. to cause replies to go to the author) you can deslect the Reply To property in your subscriber profile (see the FAQ). Alternatively, I have offered to do this for individuals if they wish. If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum replies it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make it easier for people to reply privately. Now back to aeroplane building ..... John Cliff Europa Forum minder john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: rcom.
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk >Have we any avionics experts out there ? I have an intercom problem that nobody seems to be able to solve. When receiving transmissions my intercom locks out and I am unable to talk to my P2 - not a problem unless you operate in busy airspace or from a large airport like I do. - the wiring has been checked and it seems to be OK to manufactures spec also its not the side tones of the new King radio as I can hear myself talk.It may be that the unit itself is faulty but before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking - anyone with similar experience or ideas please. ? M< My intercom was set up this way initially. It wasn't a King radio but the manufacturer (Apollo) thought that it was the way that users would want the radio set up. My radio had to go back to the manufacturer for a free software upgrade. The newer versions all have the updated software which allows intercom conversation over radio transmissions. You don't say whether your intercom is internal to the radio. If it is I lay odds it is an intentional setup within the radio. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: ly To'
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk >If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum replies it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make it easier for people to reply privately.< I go along with this. Since we have changed over there seems to be a significant increase in the number of messages on the forum. Many of these are only of interest to one or a few individuals. I was particularly disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to all. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: me of postings on the Europa forum
Date: Mar 08, 2002
I agree with the sentiments expressed by Nigel. In the last few months the number of messages on the forum has mushroomed. I don't mean to imply that these emails are irrelevant. Certainly not ! The whole point of a forum is that individuals can exchange useful ideas and practices. It's just that for me, and perhaps for others who aren't at the building stage, the signal/noise ratio has changed to the point where very little is of interest. Personally, I've considered unsubscribing. Perhaps we could re-visit the idea of a list for flying/maintenance/safety, and a separate one for the arduous task of building and building queries ? Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Good on 'yer Jeff, just knew I wasn't dreaming!!!! Pleased I found another anti-dust maker! I initially tried every other alternative including a PIZZA knife when someone recommended it, although it may have worked if the rubberyness state was evident but it would have needed a very firm support underneath . But probably due to insomnia I discovered the exact state of "rubberyness" and from there on in it was so easy it was unbelievable.!! Having said that I just did a big layup making a self rigging dolly to encompass the wing and what do you know, I missed the right time !!!!!So for once I must join the "dusty brigade". However there is a very valid reason to use the knife trim method, that is if the edge is to have another lay-up laminated to it ,like the trailing edges of the MKI wings,tailplanes,rudder,fin,aerlerons,and flaps then the complete absence of dust from discing or sanding is a reduction of the contamination of the new joint, so, far from causing delamination the integrity of the new joint is improved by a huge factor. Patience is a virtue. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] I support point of knife trimming. The results are far superior to anything you can do with any grinder, and it is very easy to do. However... The timing is absolutely critical. There is a point in time during the curing process where the layup is sort of rubbery. A sharp utility knife will quite easily cut it and leave a beautiful edge that requires no grinding at all. No, it won't 'bugger' up the layup. Sometimes it isn't even necessary to sand the edge. I used this process for all my closeouts. Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Hi! All. At the expense of another message...... perhaps I "rabbit" on too much, don't hesitate to say, I have a "thick skin!" However My aim is to assist new time builders as indeed I was greatfully assisted by others gone before, I'm quite prepared to drop out,I have plenty to keep me busy on the Jabiru Engines forum , just say the word..... but actually I find it no problem to delete many of the messages on title basis but there again I may have more time than others!( there was a period on the new forum when you were worried everyone had gone mute, which way do you want it?) regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Volume of postings on the Europa forum I agree with the sentiments expressed by Nigel. In the last few months the number of messages on the forum has mushroomed. I don't mean to imply that these emails are irrelevant. Certainly not ! The whole point of a forum is that individuals can exchange useful ideas and practices. It's just that for me, and perhaps for others who aren't at the building stage, the signal/noise ratio has changed to the point where very little is of interest. Personally, I've considered unsubscribing. Perhaps we could re-visit the idea of a list for flying/maintenance/safety, and a separate one for the arduous task of building and building queries ? Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
suggest to create a separate, new forum for those flying. Otherwise I will also unsuscribe. Klaus Nigel Charles wrote: > Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > >If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum > replies > it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make > it > easier for people to reply privately.< > > I go along with this. Since we have changed over there seems to be a > significant increase in the number of messages on the forum. Many of these > are only of interest to one or a few individuals. I was particularly > disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line > only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. > Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to > all. > > Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> Subject: 'Reply To' I was particularly> disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line> only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. > Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to> all.> Nigel Charles Nigel et al, I am probably as bad as any for reasons of sloth. It's hard to change ways when you're 'getting on'. I blame it on the thrust and parry of daily contacts - as it seems my most prevalent errors exist when quickly answering someone while she cries "Fire!" upstairs - or similar scenes. I shall try harder to concentrate on the "To:" line before punching the Send bouton. This will then give me the excuse to blame everyone else. Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Tennant@t-online.de (Barrington Tennant)
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Agree with you Barry Alan Stewart schrieb: > > I agree with the sentiments expressed by Nigel. > > In the last few months the number of messages on the forum has > mushroomed. > > I don't mean to imply that these emails are irrelevant. Certainly not ! > The whole point of a forum is that individuals can exchange useful > ideas and practices. > > It's just that for me, and perhaps for others who aren't at the building > stage, the signal/noise ratio has changed to the point where very little > is of interest. > > Personally, I've considered unsubscribing. > > Perhaps we could re-visit the idea of a list for > flying/maintenance/safety, and a separate one for the arduous task of > building and building queries ? > > Alan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Thanks so much! This is of great help. Now, except for the transducers themselves, what else did you need to get a read-out? I have an EIS engine monitor with 4 auxiliary inputs which reads everything from zero to 5.5 volts. Christoph #223 Hello Christoph, David DeFord and I used two pressure transducers, one under each seat, to measure the fuel tank head pressures, left and right. We also have a 3-axis accelerometer and a temperature sensor mounted with the starboard side pressure transducer. A micro processor samples the transducers and displays fuel quantity on an LCD display in the panel. We calibrated the system by filling the tank in 1 gallon increments, deriving formulas that compensate for tank shape and attitude. Although initial accuracy seemed in the +- 0.2 gallon range, we found that the pressure transducers are not very well compensated for temperature, causing errors of up to 3 gallons at various temperatures. We intend to remove the unit soon and place it in an environmental chamber to allow us to better compensate for temperature in software. Note: Because our pressure transducers are located in front of the tank, we need the pitch accelerometer to compensate for pitch attitude. If the pressure transducers were located near the center of the tank, fore and aft, this would not be needed. Terry Seaver A135/N135TD Pleasanton, CA CHRISTOPH BOTH wrote: > Hello: > > I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, > A135? > > In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source for > the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure > the head pressure of fule in the tank. > > Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part > source? Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to > accurately meansure fuel content? Is it reliable in the readings, and > impervious to fuel? How much does the part cost? > > Christoph Both > #223 > Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada _______________ The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Hi Tony: Thanks for your reply in another note yesterday. I tried your web site you mentioned below to get to the fuel level meter PDF but it is not working. Am I doing something wrong here? Christoph #223 we: > I am looking for an address to contact Europa builder Dave DeFord, > A135? Can't help on that one. > In particular, I like to find out about the experience and part source > for > the Honeywell 26PCAFA6D pressure transducer to use to measure > the head pressure of fule in the tank. > > Anyone out there who can point me to the right address or part > source? Both RS Components and Farnell stock this part. Has anyone been suuccessful using this method or part to > accurately meansure fuel content? Yes, See http://www.kaon.co.nz/fuelgaugev3.pdf. >>Is it reliable in the readings, and impervious to fuel? It is reliable and usage to date shows it is impervious to fuel. The longest fuel exposure I personally know of is over two years with no problems. How much does the part cost? Around USD40 _______________ The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Thanks, David. Your reply is most welcome. What kind of nav lights do you have? I have not seen them offered from Kunzleman. I thought first to get strobes for day VFR only... Christoph #223 Your we: Hello Christoph, I have both Airworld (= Kunzleman) strobes and nav lights on my wingtips. I have not compared my strobes against any others, but I am told that they are fully effective! They cause no interference to my full radio fit, and do not use any significant power. I am running my full panel (but with vacuum flight instruments) without the optional Rotax alternator. David UK 265 G-BZAM _______________ The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: recent mods and possibly useful techniques to pass along
From: Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
Greetings all, Having recently watched with interest the traffic on AOA I thought I would mention another choice, the DIY choice which I selected. A prominent commercial AOA device uses a probe made of a small block of metal providing a known leading edge geometry which can me positioned in angle to match the wing to which it is attached. Plans for a "quite" similar device can be found at: www.snyder.on.ca/pages/angle%20of%20attack.jpg It cost me $5 for the aluminum. I plan on an additional expense of about $50 for the dywer pressure gauge. I also have some details on the labeling and design of my panels. Look at: http://anes.anesthes.sunysb.edu/faculty/Rampil/NewEuropaBuild.html Cheers, Ira ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Guys, I hate to say this, but this is supposed to be a "Europa community". If you have had the benefit of the list during your build, then in order to encourage the new builders and would be builders, it is good to have your knowledge base and that of those who have gone before to hand. I know that the list occasionally gets out of control, but that is only to be expected with the volume of subscribers. If everyone was to selfishly bail out of the list once their plane is complete, then that is a huge amount of knowledge lost to the everyone else building. Besides, you can see the subject, if you don't like it, just delete it. To create another list will divide the community and make those who are still building feel isolated; a problem which Dave Watts has already tried to address with the magazine by encouraging others to flyins, even if they have to take a spam can or something. Why are there not more messages on flying on the list. Afterall, it is down to those "flying" to write about their experiences. We don't see that many! All in my opinion naturally Ed /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
In a message dated 3/8/02 8:36:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk writes: << Hi! All. At the expense of another message...... perhaps I "rabbit" on too much, don't hesitate to say, I have a "thick skin!" However My aim is to assist new time builders as indeed I was greatfully assisted by others gone before, I'm quite prepared to drop out,I have plenty to keep me busy on the Jabiru Engines forum , just say the word..... but actually I find it no problem to delete many of the messages on title basis but there again I may have more time than others!( there was a period on the new forum when you were worried everyone had gone mute, which way do you want it?) regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> Hello Bob AND the Forum, No Bob, don't go... or any other flyer! We need everyone's input in one place, builders and flyers. If the list is split into flyers and builders I will have two lists to have to read thru to filter out the personal replies from. Even you fliers may see something useful that builders have ran into that you may want to revisit or modify. An important notice could slip by or something. Make sense? But this new "reply" feature is causing personal replies to go to everyone when it need not clutter the forum. I for one will try to pay more attention to whom I reply and that it is relevant to the correct person or persons. Happy building, flying, and chatting. Kindest Regards, Troy Maynor troymaynor(at)aol.com N120EU .........hope I did this correct.....click ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Operational feedback from operators is extremely valuable in the building and designing process. I find the feedback from operators extremely important - example - input on windscreen defrost. Dave Anderson A227 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> suggest to create a separate, new forum for those flying. Otherwise I > will also unsuscribe. I can't see the logic of this. I would think that most people build airplanes to fly them and would therefore at least have some passing interest in the experiences, good or bad, of those who are now airborne. I found the collective experiences of those already flying very useful when I came to fly a europa for the first time. Over the years I have found that the most useful learning tool for aviation is to surround yourself with far more experienced aviators and listen. If the group was split into airborne and non airborne I would say that the majority would subscribe to both so as to keep the information flow going so what would be the point of splitting it? There is a very useful function I have found in my mail application called the delete key. If there is a thread going on that I am not interested in I use this function and it has the effect of removing a message that I don't want to read. I understand that other mail applications may have the same facility. Nuff said. I'll go back to my sanding now. Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Address search: Dave DeFord
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> Thanks for your reply in another note yesterday. I tried your web site > you mentioned below to get to the fuel level meter PDF but it is not > working. Am I doing something wrong here? Being a bear of little brain I gave you the wrong address. The correct one is www.kaon.co.nz/europa/fuelgaugev3.pdf Apologies. Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
> > suggest to create a separate, new forum for those flying. Otherwise I > > will also unsuscribe. > > I can't see the logic of this. I would think that most people build airplanes > to fly them and would therefore at least have some passing interest in the > experiences, good or bad, of those who are now airborne. And further more, if you just want to talk about flying, it may as well be in a general flying group and the fact that it's a Europa you're flying doesn't have so much effect on the conversations. Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: ery Earth Connection
Date: Mar 08, 2002
My apologies for any irritation to the flying fraternity, but is there a recommended place to bolt the battery earth to the 914 engine? regards, MP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: much drivel (was Re: 'Reply To')
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Mark Burton <markb(at)ordern.com>
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> Subject: Re: 'Reply To' Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:26:54 -1100 (NZDT) > I found the collective experiences of those already flying very useful when I > came to fly a europa for the first time. Over the years I have found that the > most useful learning tool for aviation is to surround yourself with far more > experienced aviators and listen. Absolutely, but as a large proportion of the postings to the list are drivel it becomes rather tedious finding the nuggets of useful information. > There is a very useful function I have found in my mail application called the > delete key. If there is a thread going on that I am not interested in I use > this function and it has the effect of removing a message that I don't want to > read. I understand that other mail applications may have the same facility. Don't patronise us please. I have read this list since 1995 and will continue to do so even though the drivel to nugget ratio is sometimes unbearably high. I applaud all the contributors who take the effort to produce a considered reply to the queries posted by Europa builders and operators. Conversely, I curse those who often just hit the reply button and spout a load of pompous rubbish. (Don't worry Tony, I'm not thinking of you as I write this.) If contributors thought more about what they are posting, the quality of the postings would improve, the volume would go down and perhaps the people who are considering leaving the list will stay (and hopefully continue to contribute themselves). Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
John, I am calling you now, but in case you do not answer, I have re arranged my schedule and will be in Tampa to build that weekend thru Tuesday the 9th so I can attend the dinner. I let the phone ring for one min and 20 sec. no answer. Thanks for the reminder. Joseph J. Like (only one) PS I will gladly pay in cash that weekend or will call next week and pay by Credit Card. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Pitt" <david(at)pitt27.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: t Ellison Throttle Boby Injector EFS-2
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Members operating the Ellison Throttle Body Injector EFS-2 are cautioned to determine if there is any air leakage through the Ellison metal plate logo attachment pins fastened to the back of the regulator cover. The two securing pin holes are not blind, but penetrate to the diaphragm. This leakage has caused the engine to run rough and was obviously difficult to trace! Ellison has been alerted and no doubt my PFA inspector will advise the PFA Dave Pitt G-OURO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magneto Leads/Firewall Penetrations
Date: Mar 08, 2002
So if there is concern about the magneto shielding wire acting as an overloaded general earth return, then the obvious thing to do would be to make the short length of wire between the engine-end of the shield and the engine block into a fusible link. Blowing of this fuse would only affect the shielding ability of the wire, not the functioning of the magnetos. Duncan mcFadyean ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: DIY GPS Antenna
I'm curious as to what GPS this would be for. I thought all teardrops are amplified, and come with a panel-mount GPS, or just UPS-AT? The removable variety like in some Garmin handhelds are amp'd too, understandably so, but fiberglass renders the issue of separate antenna for any handheld moot, I would think. Can a passive antenna be more effective than an amplified one, panel or portable? Well, my digital caliper reads to .01mm. What's a fair price for me to entrepreneurially make the plates? $$$ --> :-) Best, Fred F. > It could be mounted such that a cover can > be fitted over it flush with the fuse skin. No need to spend 300 on > a teardrop unit from Adams!!! > > I'd mount it in the roof space between the doors. That way you don't > have any extra work to do. GPS reception under the skin at that point is > excellent on a Garmin GPS35 receiver. > > Good luck with trimming the copper plate to an accuracy of 0.1mm :-) > > Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: grounding - a simple question
I will start wiring the mag switches soon. Just to get a head start, are the mag switch wires to be shielded? I'm sure if I were paying attention, I would have figured that out! Thanks, Dave A227 - monowheel motorglider ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alain Chabert" <alainchabert(at)wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Agree with you Klauss A.CHABERT N?275 F-PSLY -----Message d'origine----- la part de Klaus Dietrich Envoye : vendredi 8 mars 2002 14:32 A : forum(at)europaclub.org.uk Objet : Re: 'Reply To' suggest to create a separate, new forum for those flying. Otherwise I will also unsuscribe. Klaus Nigel Charles wrote: > Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > >If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum > replies > it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make > it > easier for people to reply privately.< > > I go along with this. Since we have changed over there seems to be a > significant increase in the number of messages on the forum. Many of these > are only of interest to one or a few individuals. I was particularly > disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line > only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. > Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to > all. > > Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Simpson" <dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...]
Date: Mar 08, 2002
I use tin snips if the time's right, a 3" diamond cutting wheel if it's fully cured. Dave Simpson ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Davies <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot ...] > Having tried knife, hacksaw blade and grinder and found disadvantages with > each, I tried a Tennon Saw. This is just a wood saw with very fine teeth. > Virtually no dust, very accurate straight lines. You can get them without > the reinforcing strip at the top of the saw blade. These are best. > > Brian Davies kit 454 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JW" <xs191(at)attbi.com> > Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa pilot > ...] > > > > I support point of knife trimming. The results are far superior to > > anything you can do with any grinder, and it is very easy to do. > > However... The timing is absolutely critical. There is a point in time > > during the curing process where the layup is sort of rubbery. A sharp > > utility knife will quite easily cut it and leave a beautiful edge that > > requires no grinding at all. No, it won't 'bugger' up the layup. > > Sometimes it isn't even necessary to sand the edge. I used this process > > for all my closeouts. Again... the key is timing, timing, timing. > > > > Jeff > > > > bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote: > > > > > Hi Rowland > > > > > > I have used the little angle grinder wheels for the dremel and they > > > work very well. They seem to be more balanced than the permagrit > > > although that too has its uses. > > > > > > What is the point of knife trimming anyway? It just appears to bugger > > > up the layup that you spend so long perfecting. I tried it only > > > twice, then reverted to the Dremel or craft knife and metal ruler or > > > pad saw. > > > > > > all IMHO > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > However, being a stubborn animal, I have since tried trimming my > > > > layups with both the Dremel (with a Perma-Grit wheel) and the > > > > aforementioned 115mm angle-grinder & diamond wheel. I find the > > > > angle-grinder much easier to control (I feel I'd do better with the > > > > Dremel if its wheel ran at right angles to the body, too), and it > > > > goes through with pretty much undetectable effort. > > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// > > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// > > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Simpson" <dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
John Cliff & Nigel, I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we have the old system back. What do others think? Dave Simpson dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> Subject: 'Reply To' > Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > >If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum > replies > it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make > it > easier for people to reply privately.< > > I go along with this. Since we have changed over there seems to be a > significant increase in the number of messages on the forum. Many of these > are only of interest to one or a few individuals. I was particularly > disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line > only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. > Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to > all. > > Nigel Charles > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Goodbye, we will miss you! MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alain Chabert" <alainchabert(at)wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: 'Reply To' > Agree with you Klauss > > A.CHABERT > N?275 F-PSLY > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > la part de Klaus Dietrich > Envoye : vendredi 8 mars 2002 14:32 > A : forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > Objet : Re: 'Reply To' > > suggest to create a separate, new forum for those flying. Otherwise I will > also unsuscribe. > Klaus > > Nigel Charles wrote: > > > Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > > >If you are posting a message to the forum which might invite off-forum > > replies > > it would be helpful to include your own email address in the text, to make > > it > > easier for people to reply privately.< > > > > I go along with this. Since we have changed over there seems to be a > > significant increase in the number of messages on the forum. Many of these > > are only of interest to one or a few individuals. I was particularly > > disheartened to see I had to read 55 e-mails after only two days off line > > only to find that on opening at least 10 were a waste of time downloading. > > Please can we only send messages to the forum if they are of interest to > > all. > > > > Nigel Charles > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
I like the list as it is. I find it an improvement that I get to see the answers as well as the questions nowadays. And I am a very good deleter. A subscriber to any list has to be a good deleter. Jan de Jong #461 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa Builders Dinner
>Just a reminder to everyone on the forum. I need to hear from you by >tomorrow (March 8'th) if you wish to attend the builder dinner at Sun 'n >Fun. I need to reserve catering etc.. John, Weather permitting we'll be there. (Paul & I) Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa
<v04220800b8ac3b408a16@[212.126.131.185]> <1015528183.3c87baf7a2297(at)easymessagecentre.easynet.co.uk> >I am getting some diamond wheels soon for myself and a couple of friends. I >don't know if I can get them cheap on a bigger order. If you're interested >let me know. They were about 5 each last time I bought a couple. That sounds like a very good price. It is possible to buy these from dental supply warehouses, no doubt there are other sources too. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
<00e501c1c549$bc555d00$a5f4a018@paul> >I would have thought that a vapour lock situation would be unlikely >if you were to use the tank return line, thus pumping fuel around >continually to keep it cool. Actually its the engine mounted fuel pump that gets hot form gearbox oil, we saw 85 deg C on the tell tale we had on ours . Rotax have always recommended a return line, most modern cars have one too. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nick Hammond <nick.hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 09, 2002
All, I agree -- the new system has presulted in a major reduction in the signal-to-noise ratio on the list. The fact that you can't reply direct to a message author without cutting and pasting the address from the original message puts this beyond the capability of many on the list and has led to mail-storms like responses to requests for an individual's e-mail address, congratulations on the birth of new children, responses to dinner invitations et al. There is, of course, nothing wrong with any of these except that they are appropriate subjects for a private response -- not for broadcasting to the remainder of the readership. John & Nigel: Please can we go back to "reply to" for a private response and "reply to all" for a response which the rest of the list might find interesting. It might cause us to miss a few messages from users who use "reply to" inadvertently but most of them will notice that their message hasn't appeared on the list and will re-send it. For the rest, I would rather miss one or two potentially useful messages than wade through hundreds of well intentioned but useless ones. Best regards, Nick -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: 'Reply To' John Cliff & Nigel, I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we have the old system back. What do others think? Dave Simpson dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2002
From: JW <xs191(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
I have no problem with things just as they are. Jeff Dave Simpson wrote: > What do others think? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 09, 2002
More message!.... I have no problem with "reply" as it is configured. Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Re: 'Reply To' I have no problem with things just as they are. Jeff Dave Simpson wrote: > What do others think? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Subject: y to sender
From: Richard Holder <rholder(at)avnet.co.uk>
On my 'proper computer' (Apple Mac) There is an option in Outlook Express on the Messages Menu called "Reply to Sender" shortcut Option-Apple-R. Using Reply to Sender bypasses the "Reply To" address. I rather suspect that Outlook Express on Windoze may have something similar. This message sent NOT using the Option-Apple-R route ! Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Date: Mar 08, 2002
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Thanks, David. Your reply is most welcome. What kind of nav lights do you have? I have not seen them offered from Kunzleman. I thought first to get strobes for day VFR only... Christoph #223 Your we: Hello Christoph, I have both Airworld (= Kunzleman) strobes and nav lights on my wingtips. I have not compared my strobes against any others, but I am told that they are fully effective! They cause no interference to my full radio fit, and do not use any significant power. I am running my full panel (but with vacuum flight instruments) without the optional Rotax alternator. David UK 265 G-BZAM _______________ The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
Date: Mar 09, 2002
The answer is easy. All subscribers just need to include their Email address at the end of their message. I think most modern Email software will enable you to click on the address and send an Email direct to the originator. The only thing this doesn't do is to include the original message itself. Most Email software also makes provision for a signature (not a digital signature). Just include your favourite Email address in your signature and the jobs done. I don't mind which newsgroup system you use now I can send using my avnet address. Jerry Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: trimming layups [was: New future Europa
Date: Mar 09, 2002
>>I am getting some diamond wheels soon for myself and a couple of friends. I >>don't know if I can get them cheap on a bigger order. If you're interested >>let me know. They were about 5 each last time I bought a couple. > >That sounds like a very good price. It is possible to buy these from dental >supply warehouses, no doubt there are other sources too. Ouch! Would you trust agony of dental surgery on the beast you will one day trust your life with? :) Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: and reply to
Date: Mar 09, 2002
> John Cliff & Nigel, > > I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we have > the old system back. > > What do others think? It has been brought up before and the list owner said he wanted it to stay as is, but anyone can change their own settings so that when they hit reply it will go back to the sender rather than the list. See http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/ for instructions on how to do this. Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: List and reply to
Date: Mar 09, 2002
As a relatively new user and with respect to all who have had experience of these systems, I am eternally grateful that someone, unpaid I assume and out of the goodness of their heart and enthusiasm for our marque, has taken the time and trouble to set up and maintain this forum for the benefit of the members. If, for whatever reason, they think that this is the best system to host the forum, I feel as a recipient of this benevolence that I am very happy to make whatever changes are neccessary to the way I use the system, particularly if it means that it will continue to be maintained for my (our) benefit. With my grateful thanks Richard Iddon. -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com Subject: List and reply to > John Cliff & Nigel, > > I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we have > the old system back. > > What do others think? It has been brought up before and the list owner said he wanted it to stay as is, but anyone can change their own settings so that when they hit reply it will go back to the sender rather than the list. See http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/ for instructions on how to do this. Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: ptance
Date: Mar 09, 2002
"I feel as a recipient of this benevolence that I am very happy to make whatever changes are neccessary to the way I use the system, particularly if it means that it will continue to be maintained for my (our)benefit. Wth my grateful thanks Rchard Iddon." Bravo, Richard! Fergf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KarkelB(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Subject: Re: list
.........i absolutely agree . Richard thats the way forward,cheers!! karim. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: tal Scales
Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be interested in the following: Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make & model - Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99 These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of batteries, a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting and weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either resin or Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of scales for the Redux so this good be a good deal. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: list
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Ditto! And to others who are dissatisfied with the content of some posted messages..... if the delete key is not adequate, then why not respond privately to the respective individuals instead of going down the typical newsgroup rathole and starting the unfortunate 'them against us' threads which only serve to raise everyone's blood pressure, offend many, and add further to their original issue. I value all posts to this list, and appreciate the time an effort of all who participate. Cheers, Pete A239 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: list .........i absolutely agree . Richard thats the way forward,cheers!! karim. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Some recent mods and possibly useful techniques to
> I also have some details on the labeling and design of my panels. > Look at: > > http://anes.anesthes.sunysb.edu/faculty/Rampil/NewEuropaBuild.html > > Cheers, > Ira The lettering looks great, Ira. Similar to the process is dry transfer lettering, which I usually find at electronic parts stores. Or on web of course. Common is all uppercase, 1/8", white or black. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Mail Solution.
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Perfick solution, thanks very much. We can move on now. regards, Mike Parkin No 312 (G-JULZ) mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: List and reply to
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Particularly well said Richard, I totally agree. MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: List and reply to > As a relatively new user and with respect to all who have had experience of > these systems, I am eternally grateful that someone, unpaid I assume and out > of the goodness of their heart and enthusiasm for our marque, has taken the > time and trouble to set up and maintain this forum for the benefit of the > members. > > If, for whatever reason, they think that this is the best system to host the > forum, I feel as a recipient of this benevolence that I am very happy to > make whatever changes are neccessary to the way I use the system, > particularly if it means that it will continue to be maintained for my (our) > benefit. > > With my grateful thanks > > Richard Iddon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com > Subject: List and reply to > > > > John Cliff & Nigel, > > > > I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we > have > > the old system back. > > > > What do others think? > > It has been brought up before and the list owner said he wanted it to stay > as is, but anyone can change their own settings so that when they hit reply > it will go back to the sender rather than the list. > > See http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/ for instructions on how > to do this. > > Cheers, > Mark. > > ________________________________ > Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 > europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com > http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
> >John & Nigel: Please can we go back to "reply to" for a private response and >"reply to all" for a response which the rest of the list might find >interesting. > Why is it that a newsgroup forum like ours should have anything other than the forum as the default addresee?? Is it not really a forum? I was quite annoyed with the old way it worked, perhaps a deluge of messages supporting the new way is needed to put a painful end to the miserable signal to noise rate of late? As for contents and quality, we may all be guilty of living in our little world of our own, thinking everybody on the list instinctively will understand your train of thought, try take a step back and read your own message before hitting "send", that might also avoid thing like complaining of one's patronising, while calling messages from others dribble.... With respect and some sweat on the brow ('cause it's very hot today and i'm doing inventory on kit 529, well arrived and cuddled up in blankets) Alex ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Date: Mar 08, 2002
don't go Bob....h ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum > Hi! All. > At the expense of another message...... perhaps I "rabbit" on too much, > don't hesitate to say, I have a "thick skin!" However My aim is to assist > new time builders as indeed I was greatfully assisted by others gone before, > I'm quite prepared to drop out,I have plenty to keep me busy on the Jabiru > Engines forum , just say the word..... but actually I find it no problem to > delete many of the messages on title basis but there again I may have more > time than others!( there was a period on the new forum when you were worried > everyone had gone mute, which way do you want it?) > regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > Subject: Volume of postings on the Europa forum > > > I agree with the sentiments expressed by Nigel. > > In the last few months the number of messages on the forum has > mushroomed. > > I don't mean to imply that these emails are irrelevant. Certainly not ! > The whole point of a forum is that individuals can exchange useful > ideas and practices. > > It's just that for me, and perhaps for others who aren't at the building > stage, the signal/noise ratio has changed to the point where very little > is of interest. > > Personally, I've considered unsubscribing. > > Perhaps we could re-visit the idea of a list for > flying/maintenance/safety, and a separate one for the arduous task of > building and building queries ? > > Alan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MELVYNBS(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 09, 2002
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Good idea to divide the websites based on interests and needs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: infamous "Reply to" issue
Dear Europa Forum members, I have chosen to stay quiet up to now on the subject of the infamous Reply to issue. However, I feel that I must state my opinion as I am quite unhappy about the way the Europa forum bulletin board has deteriorated. I have had some correspondence on this subject off the forum but that does not seem to have achieved anything so I am now going public. I think the time has come to make the change back to the old system. On the old server, when a reply was made, the sender chose whether to reply to the individual or to the forum or both. What I have seen with the new system is that many people have been caught out when they carefully chose to reply to the individual and then found that it had been inadvertently posted to all. On occasion, there have been personal comments or items which I am sure they would rather not have shared and this continues to happen. It is now a rather long winded procedure to do a personal reply smoothly. Some users may not be adept and may find it difficult. I am also sure that on occasion some people prefer to reply direct to avoid the sometimes critical observations or "flamers" which crop up from time to time on the forum.( Not many lately, I have to say.) Another side effect is that the forum now has has much more trivial content. I was away from my PC for a week and when I returned, there were over 100 messages. When I sifted through the material I found that many messages were inconsequential and many of these, I believe, were intended only for the original sender. Is it necessary for everybody to know what dinner reservations are being made ? I know that the forum users and the builders are adults and can be trusted to send material to the forum when they wish to do so. This procedure worked very well on the old server for many years. I also believe it is wise to avoid software features which have a default mode of doing what the designer thinks is best rather than leaving it up to the user. This irritating style crops up in many software products. The bottom line is that I request the forum minder, John Cliff, to change the forum back to the old procedure of reply to sender by default and copy to the forum by specific action. With very best regards, Cheers, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Hi, all -- Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear choice and light-building practices. Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Volume of postings on the Europa forum
Hitting Send key with trepidation myself, but maybe smaller subgroups tend to wither into silence. Perhaps just a convention to post non-building msgs with "Flying: ..." in the subject? Anything non-building goes there, country-specific flying, generic musings, birth announcements, holiday greetings. I don't mind 'em at all. As to content objections, and honest I'm not trying to preach, but a true story. Years ago here there was a long-running local TV show for little kids. "Captain Penny," the host, had a sign-off that went, "Remember, don't worry about it, don't stew about it, you'll live a whole lot longer." In one of life's purest of ironies, "Captain" Ron Penfound committed suicide after the show was canceled. Still not bad advice really, and remember it from 50 years ago. Let's continue to freely participate? Best, Fred F. MELVYNBS(at)aol.com wrote: > > Good idea to divide the websites based on interests and needs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: brew AOA Indicator
Ira Rampil wrote: > > Greetings all, > > Having recently watched with interest the traffic on AOA I thought I would > mention another choice, the DIY choice which I selected. > > A prominent commercial AOA device uses a probe made of a small block of > metal providing a known leading edge geometry which can me positioned in > angle to match the wing to which it is attached. Plans for a "quite" > similar device can be found at: > > www.snyder.on.ca/pages/angle%20of%20attack.jpg I just now noticed in this .jpg that the 2 ports are drilled parallel, and how that best reads AOA is escaping me. There may be differential pressure as relative wind varies, but perhaps too small for a reliable instrument. It may _appear_ to work, if it's basically an ASI - which reads out a stall speed, but not true AOA. One of the AOA makers uses similar design, but ports are angled to each other. There, as rel. wind varies, the differential pressure changes a lot. I'd prefer electronic transducers to read the diff., to add an aural alarm. But I've wondered whether you could use like a 2-1/4" UMA ASI, and plug the lines into the pitot and static ports. Play with the angle on the ports with first some kind of mockup on the wing. Repaint the face for AOA indication. How do you drill a 5-7/8" long hole in 1/2" thick ali. stock? I'd just pot some flox around tubing and fittings, in an aerodynamic shape, before going through 10 feet of 'lumnum stock trying! Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Corbett" <David.Corbett(at)farmline.com>
Subject: Re: Kunzleman strobes
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Christoph, The nav lights are Whelan - from RD Avaition, in UK. The RD part number was IFR-EL when I purchased the set in late '98. David ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Kenneth Whiteley <kenwhit(at)kenwhit.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 'Reply To'
<011801c1c6ec$adbfe360$399ca4c2@oemcomputer> In message <011801c1c6ec$adbfe360$399ca4c2@oemcomputer>, Dave Simpson writes >I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we have >the old system back. > >What do others think? > >Dave Simpson > I am afraid I have to agree. Using my Turnpike software, under the old system I was prompted whether I wanted to make a group reply or to only the originator. This had the advantage of loading my address book with the CURRENT email address of the sender. If I want to send a message to someone on the forum, I am faced with either waiting until that person sends a new message or taking a chance that the address which arrived in my address book under the old system is still current. Something which will be increasingly unlikely. Please let the originator appear as the person sending the message, not "forum". Ken Whiteley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Fred, That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive in the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor glider, it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical be a problem. On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: > > Hi, all -- > > Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. > Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em > at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too > heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of > that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here > will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. > > The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a > medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be > "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to > recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of > medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on > initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear > choice and light-building practices. > > Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? > > Regards, > Fred F. The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Date: Mar 10, 2002
There's a gotcha for registering as a motorglider. My understanding is that although a motorglider doesn't require a medical, it does require a glider rating. So if you're not a glider pilot now, you'll need to be one before your first flight. Even if you, like me, are building the short wings first. Shaun A207 ----- Original Message ----- From: <clevelee(at)cswebmail.com> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > Fred, > That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive in the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor glider, it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical be a problem. > > On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: > > > > > Hi, all -- > > > > Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you > > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. > > Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em > > at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too > > heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of > > that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here > > will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. > > > > The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a > > medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be > > "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to > > recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of > > medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on > > initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear > > choice and light-building practices. > > > > Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? > > > > Regards, > > Fred F. > > > ___________________________________________________ > The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe > Better! Faster! More Powerful! > 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! > http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: List and reply to
Richard, I fully agree. & I have not forgotten the virus problems that we had a few months ago. I feel privilidged to be able to have access to such a profoundly helpful resource. Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Detroit, MI On Sat, 09 March 2002, "Richard Iddon" wrote: > > As a relatively new user and with respect to all who have had experience of > these systems, I am eternally grateful that someone, unpaid I assume and out > of the goodness of their heart and enthusiasm for our marque, has taken the > time and trouble to set up and maintain this forum for the benefit of the > members. > > If, for whatever reason, they think that this is the best system to host the > forum, I feel as a recipient of this benevolence that I am very happy to > make whatever changes are neccessary to the way I use the system, > particularly if it means that it will continue to be maintained for my (our) > benefit. > > With my grateful thanks > > Richard Iddon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com > Subject: List and reply to > > > > John Cliff & Nigel, > > > > I don't think we'll solve this problem, (which also annoys me) until we > have > > the old system back. > > > > What do others think? > > It has been brought up before and the list owner said he wanted it to stay > as is, but anyone can change their own settings so that when they hit reply > it will go back to the sender rather than the list. > > See http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/ for instructions on how > to do this. > > Cheers, > Mark. > > ________________________________ > Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 > europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com > http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa > > The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: overcenter landing gear position
Collective wisdom, I'm Looking for some input on the verfication of the over-center position on the mono. As I look at the completed installation (which took me far longer than I ever thought it would for a bunch of bolted together parts), I'm concerned about the possible build up of tolerances that may not result in a true over-center locked down position. There are assumptions that the landing gear weldment is perfect, the depth and positions of gear swing arm bearings is perfect and so too are other machined hole locations. As I try and visually line up the three pivot points, I find it difficult due to the large diameter of the retraction arm pivot, creating difficulty in determining exact center. What I'm coming up with visually is that if it is over center, it is not by much. Has this ever been an issue? Has anyone ever folded a gear when the lever was down and locked? We are not asked/told to verify position after assembley. Any collective (or factory) widsom on this issue? Thanks, Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Detroit, MO clevelee(at)cswebmail.com The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider with the short wings, before building the long wings? Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! Kevin A211 -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft There's a gotcha for registering as a motorglider. My understanding is that although a motorglider doesn't require a medical, it does require a glider rating. So if you're not a glider pilot now, you'll need to be one before your first flight. Even if you, like me, are building the short wings first. Shaun A207 ----- Original Message ----- From: <clevelee(at)cswebmail.com> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > Fred, > That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive in the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor glider, it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical be a problem. > > On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: > > > > > Hi, all -- > > > > Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you > > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. > > Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em > > at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too > > heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of > > that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here > > will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. > > > > The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a > > medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be > > "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to > > recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of > > medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on > > initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear > > choice and light-building practices. > > > > Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? > > > > Regards, > > Fred F. > > > ___________________________________________________ > The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe > Better! Faster! More Powerful! > 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! > http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Freeserve" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Insulation of fuel lines
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Hi All, I havent posted to this site recently so hope this ARRIVES at the correct place. We are about to install engine for the hopefully last time (had to be removed for painting), and need to replace the sleeving on the engine side fuel lines. We had originally used the relatively cheap foam pipe lagging as found at B&Q (plumbing supplies) but the PFA are making disapproving noises so will have to think again. I was under the impression that the purpose of the insulation was for heat reduction purposes for which the foam sleeving had excellent insulation properties (covered in aluminum tape for protection) but it seems that the purpose of the reccommended FIRESLEEVE is more for fire retardant purposes than heat insulation. First question - where can one purchase FIRESLEEVE in the UK at a reasonable cost. My local hose and hydraulic supplier wants about 20 per metre which is going to cost the best part of 50 to do the job. Another product I have come accross which claims to be better than Firesleeve is Thermo Sleeve made by Thermo-Tec. It is an aluminised fabric material, again very expensive (about 100 for 12 feet in the UK but $40 in the USA for similar). If I could get this from the States then it might be worth considering. Has any Europa builder considered using Thermo Sleeve and if so is it suitable. They also manufacture Thermo Sleeve for lagging exhaust pipes. It is claimed that lagging the header pipes improves engine performance. I know we have been down this road with Europas before and it seems that the end result is cracked manifold pipes. What is the current thinking on lagging the exhaust pipes. It would certainly reduce the cowling temperatures. Any thoughts, experiences would be welcome. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BRYNALL(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: PA CLUB FRENCH TRIP
We still have a vacancy on this trip round France if anyone is keen to join. The plan is for six Europas to rendezvous at Laddingford in Kent on Sunday 28th April, and overnight in Normandy. The trip will take in The Bay of Biscay (La Rochelle), the Mediterranean (Montpellier), and Paris. If you are interested, or want to know more, please contact me by E-mail or phone. Bryan Allsop......Tel: 01 246 207733 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
From: Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
On 3/10/02 1:51 PM, "Kevin Klinefelter" wrote: > Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider > with the short wings, before building the long wings? > > Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private > and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. > I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the > necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit > becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! > Kevin A211 > I have just registered my aircraft as a motorglider. All that was necessary according to the EAA interpretation of the FARs is "Intent to Glide." In my case a feathering prop was sufficient despite the temporary absence of the long wings. Ira A224 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: Homebrew AOA Indicator
From: Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
On 3/10/02 11:35 AM, "Fred Fillinger" wrote: > Ira Rampil wrote: >> >> Greetings all, >> >> Having recently watched with interest the traffic on AOA I thought I would >> mention another choice, the DIY choice which I selected. >> >> A prominent commercial AOA device uses a probe made of a small block of >> metal providing a known leading edge geometry which can me positioned in >> angle to match the wing to which it is attached. Plans for a "quite" >> similar device can be found at: >> >> www.snyder.on.ca/pages/angle%20of%20attack.jpg > > I just now noticed in this .jpg that the 2 ports are drilled parallel, > and how that best reads AOA is escaping me. There may be differential > pressure as relative wind varies, but perhaps too small for a reliable > instrument. It may _appear_ to work, if it's basically an ASI - which > reads out a stall speed, but not true AOA. > > One of the AOA makers uses similar design, but ports are angled to > each other. There, as rel. wind varies, the differential pressure > changes a lot. > > I'd prefer electronic transducers to read the diff., to add an aural > alarm. But I've wondered whether you could use like a 2-1/4" UMA ASI, > and plug the lines into the pitot and static ports. Play with the > angle on the ports with first some kind of mockup on the wing. > Repaint the face for AOA indication. > > How do you drill a 5-7/8" long hole in 1/2" thick ali. stock? I'd > just pot some flox around tubing and fittings, in an aerodynamic > shape, before going through 10 feet of 'lumnum stock trying! > > Regards, > Fred F. > Hi Fred, Note down at the bottom of the aluminum bar there are two holes one on either side of the leading edge corner and each forming the port to the long channel. The shape of the sensor end of the bar is important, thus making it out of the bar stock is actually easier. As for technique, actually I cheated and had my friend Steve Jasik (Mr. MacNosy) use his CNC mill with an extended end-mill. The Vendor of the differential pressure gauge actually already makes a electronic reading version. I was considering running the two pressure lines into 2 unused pressure ports on the EFIS/one so that the miniheliac is just a power off backup. Your Mileage May Vary! Ira ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Ira thanks for that. So when I send in for reg.(N#) call it a glider not airplane. Has anyone taken this to the point of FAA inspection and airworthiness certificate? Kevin A211 -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Ira Rampil Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider On 3/10/02 1:51 PM, "Kevin Klinefelter" wrote: > Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider > with the short wings, before building the long wings? > > Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private > and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. > I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the > necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit > becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! > Kevin A211 > I have just registered my aircraft as a motorglider. All that was necessary according to the EAA interpretation of the FARs is "Intent to Glide." In my case a feathering prop was sufficient despite the temporary absence of the long wings. Ira A224 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
From: Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
John Hurst at the Lakeland sales office should be able to help with the paperwork, including the bill of sale listing a kit motorglider. The DAR in Lakeland has signed off several in Florida. My DAR in NY told me that the fully feathering prop was enough of an indication for him as well. Ira On 3/10/02 3:21 PM, "Kevin Klinefelter" wrote: > Ira thanks for that. So when I send in for reg.(N#) call it a glider not > airplane. Has anyone taken this to the point of FAA inspection and > airworthiness certificate? > > Kevin A211 > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Ira Rampil > Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider > > On 3/10/02 1:51 PM, "Kevin Klinefelter" wrote: > >> Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider >> with the short wings, before building the long wings? >> >> Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private >> and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. >> I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the >> necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit >> becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! >> Kevin A211 >> > > > I have just registered my aircraft as a motorglider. All that was necessary > according to the EAA interpretation of the FARs is "Intent to Glide." In my > case a feathering prop was sufficient despite the temporary absence of the > long wings. > > Ira A224 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: ge this.. change that... do some more work.
Date: Mar 10, 2002
After congratulating myself on my super sanitary installation of my Andair fuel valve and associated fixturing and lines I got bit in the you know what again. Come to put in the rudder cables and find out that they will do a wonderful job of sawing the fuel lines in half post haste.Solving things like this at work is typical however and my solution was pretty straight forward. I moved the pullies to the position where the seat belts bolt in and put the seat belt mounts where the pullies went. My question to the forum: has anyone experienced any issues with the seat belt mounting? Am I moving a new issue further down the road to have to be dealt with again? It seems like the same old story: modify the engine in your car then you start busting the lug bolts in your wheels. Put in bigger lugs then you start stripping gears in the rear end, strengthen the gears and then the driveshaft get torqued out . . . . and on ... and on....Steve HagarA143Mesa, AZ--- Steve Hagar--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Mono overcenter landing gear position
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Cleve and All The landing gear does go over center is "just a slight bit", as you say. But it is enough to lock it in place. I do suggest that you verify that you have both stops contacting together. To make this check try to slip a feeler gauge under each of them with the gear down and locked. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile I Coyote" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
> I have just registered my aircraft as a motorglider. All that was necessary > according to the EAA interpretation of the FARs is "Intent to Glide." In my > case a feathering prop was sufficient despite the temporary absence of the > long wings. > > Ira A224 Gives you right of way, too, in the landing pattern, except for balloons? Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mc Donnell" <vze2dxrd(at)verizon.net>
Subject: ane is Born
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Hello All Europa Web site now states that the Discovery wings channel is replaying the series starting April 7th every sunday @ 8:30pm. I do not have Discovery Wings. Is there anyone out there who will record this series for me I will gladly send tapes and pay for shipping Thanks Ray My email address is vze2dxrd(at)verizon.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net>
Subject: m settings
I've let John Cliff handle most of the recent comments about how the list is configured, and I hope I'm not treading on his toes by mentioning the following points. The Europa Forum is intended for messages likely to be of general interest to _all_ Europa people. It has never purported to be a substitute for the maintenance of a personal e-mail address book of one's regular correspondents. It is configured in the same way as pretty much all the other e-mail lists around - that is, the default is to reply to the list. On none of the many discussion-style e-mail lists that I subscribe to (about 7 at present I think - I usually read {except for the spam} and deal with about 100 e-mail messages per day) have I seen any requests by users for a "reply-to-sender" default. When the Europa list was first set up, it conformed to the standard model, and I cannot recall a single complaint about it in the early years. It's very unfortunate that because of the limitations of out-of-date server software at Aviators Network, the list was then re-configured in a non-standard way, leading to the formation of inappropriate habits by users over some years. I'm sorry that for a few of the 450-odd subscribers to the list, the recent changes have been uncomfortable, and we hope that things will seem less awkward as familiarity grows. For those who are using an e-mail system provided by their employer and have little control over its configuration, perhaps you should consider moving recreational activities to a home computer where you can choose what to install. It's hard to envisage exactly how any modification will be received by all those affected, but we believe we have (in time stolen from Europa-building) set things up to give the greatest benefit to the majority, while minimising future maintenance requirements. (Of course if there are 450 replies to this post all disagreeing, it might be necessary to reconsider!) We also remember that perhaps one day eager volunteers will arise, offering to take over the administrative tasks we currently perform for the Club, and we are trying to leave the shop as clean and tidy as possible for those new incumbents. As for a separate list for fliers only, I hope that does not happen, personally wish to know about all aspects of the Europa experience. If people get into the habit of prefixing their flying-topic message subject lines with "flying" then anyone who wants to see only those posts can arrange a filter (or message handler) to bin all the rest - and those who are not interested in flying (what!) can do the reverse. Of course, some messages impinge on both building and flying, so I cannot be sure what to recommend in that case as one or other of the filters mentioned above would not work as desired .... but certainly choosing informative subject lines is a great help to all users. regards Rowland | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 | e-mail website ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Davis" <scrounge(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Kevin , I am also building a motorglider, just returned from fla. with my wings !!!!!!!!!!!! do you have your wing kit and where are you? I am in MA.and am glider licenced but no single engine licence. I would love to hook up with other glider wing builders along the way. Chris Davis A160 MG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider > with the short wings, before building the long wings? > > Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private > and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. > I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the > necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit > becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! > Kevin A211 > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > There's a gotcha for registering as a motorglider. My understanding is that > although a motorglider > doesn't require a medical, it does require a glider rating. So if you're > not a glider pilot now, you'll > need to be one before your first flight. Even if you, like me, are building > the short wings first. > > Shaun > A207 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <clevelee(at)cswebmail.com> > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > > > Fred, > > That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive in > the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor glider, > it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical be > a problem. > > > > On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all -- > > > > > > Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you > > > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > > > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > > > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > > > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. > > > Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em > > > at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too > > > heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of > > > that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here > > > will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. > > > > > > The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a > > > medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be > > > "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to > > > recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of > > > medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on > > > initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear > > > choice and light-building practices. > > > > > > Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Fred F. > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe > > Better! Faster! More Powerful! > > 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! > > http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
>Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you >have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which >weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where >you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later >maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) >Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? >Fred F. Hi Fred, I have a loose thought to add, (I'm UK based anyway). IMHO it isn't the FAA that has the last word, the insurer has a big financial stick with which to beat us. If some minor licensing issue invalidated the insurance that could be real bad news. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Chris, I am in Bishop CA. I have not yet ordered glider wings. I hope to try em out at Sun&Fun. You probably are aware of the fact that if your Europa gets registered as a glider you would not need a SEL rating to fly it. Just an endorsement in your log book to fly a powered glider because you have a glider rating. Ira, it's Chris who lives in MA. -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Chris Davis Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft Kevin , I am also building a motorglider, just returned from fla. with my wings !!!!!!!!!!!! do you have your wing kit and where are you? I am in MA.and am glider licenced but no single engine licence. I would love to hook up with other glider wing builders along the way. Chris Davis A160 MG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider > with the short wings, before building the long wings? > > Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private > and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. > I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the > necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit > becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! > Kevin A211 > > -----Original Message----- > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk > Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > There's a gotcha for registering as a motorglider. My understanding is that > although a motorglider > doesn't require a medical, it does require a glider rating. So if you're > not a glider pilot now, you'll > need to be one before your first flight. Even if you, like me, are building > the short wings first. > > Shaun > A207 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <clevelee(at)cswebmail.com> > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > > > Fred, > > That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive in > the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor glider, > it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical be > a problem. > > > > On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all -- > > > > > > Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you > > > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > > > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > > > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > > > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. > > > Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em > > > at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too > > > heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of > > > that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here > > > will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. > > > > > > The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a > > > medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be > > > "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to > > > recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of > > > medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on > > > initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear > > > choice and light-building practices. > > > > > > Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Fred F. > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe > > Better! Faster! More Powerful! > > 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! > > http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more work.
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Steve and All The anchor for the seat belt is not going to be that critical. The position of the belt is not custom fitted to the person using it anyway. When I fly with Bob, I have to fiddle with the buckles to get it to work for me every time. The belts are anchored at the same place and he is taller than I am and I sit on thicker padding . I don't think 2.5 inches will make a difference. I am glad you saved your fuel line installation. I was afraid when reading your Email, that you were going to say that you had to move the selector valve and all the tubing. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: erichdtrombley(at)juno.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: Mag grounding - a simple question
Yes, on both ends of the shield. Erich Trombley A028 > I will start wiring the mag switches soon. Just to get a head start, > are the mag switch wires to be shielded? I'm sure if I were paying > attention, I would have figured that out! > > Thanks, > > Dave > A227 - monowheel motorglider > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: erichdtrombley(at)juno.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: Alert Ellison Throttle Bob Injector EFS-2
Dave, on what engine do you have the Ellison Throttle Body injector? Erich Trombley A028 writes: > Members operating the Ellison Throttle Body Injector EFS-2 are > cautioned to determine if there is any air leakage through the > Ellison metal plate logo attachment pins fastened to the back of the > regulator cover. The two securing pin holes are not blind, but > penetrate to the diaphragm. This leakage has caused the engine to > run rough and was obviously difficult to trace! Ellison has been > alerted and no doubt my PFA inspector will advise the PFA > > Dave Pitt > G-OURO > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > Ira thanks for that. So when I send in for reg.(N#) call it a glider not > airplane. Has anyone taken this to the point of FAA inspection and > airworthiness certificate? I just located FAA's definition of powered glider. Max weight divided by wing span squared cannot exceed .62lb/ft 2. Advisory Circular 21.17-2A. Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: erichdtrombley(at)juno.com
Date: Mar 10, 2002
Subject: Re: Battery Earth Connection
Michael, I am not sure about a recommended place as the installation manual does not give any direction on this matter. I just ran my ground wire tonight and the location I chose was the magneto mounting bracket to engine block bolt. This is a rather large bolt at least 8mm in dia and is rather convenient spot for easy access and didn't require any additional hardware. Erich Trombley A028 writes: > My apologies for any irritation to the flying fraternity, but is > there a recommended place to bolt the battery earth to the 914 > engine? > > regards, > > MP > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: lating fuel lines
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour locks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Paddy Wigney" <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: (no subject) > <<<<< be > removed for painting), and need to replace the sleeving on the engine > side > fuel lines. We had originally used the relatively cheap foam pipe > lagging as > found at B&Q (plumbing supplies) but the PFA are making disapproving > noises > so will have to think again. I was under the impression that the purpose > of > the insulation was for heat reduction purposes for which the foam > sleeving > had excellent insulation properties (covered in aluminum tape for > protection) but it seems that the purpose of the reccommended FIRESLEEVE > is > more for fire retardant purposes than heat insulation.>>>>> > > Hi Carl, > > FWIF, have you considered NOT putting sleeve on the fuel lines ? I > believe it is a nice to have and not a must have. I see nothing in the > Rotax installation manual which refers to this and Rotax are pretty good > at publishing items which have problems. I have non-insulated lines on > my installation and have seen no problems so far. > > Cheers, John > > N262WF, XS mono, 912S > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Heat Insulation of fuel lines
<016b01c1c854$d2e1b560$0200a8c0@richard> >They also manufacture Thermo Sleeve for lagging exhaust pipes. It is claimed >that lagging the header pipes improves engine performance. I know we have >been down this road with Europas before and it seems that the end result is >cracked manifold pipes. What is the current thinking on lagging the exhaust >pipes. It would certainly reduce the cowling temperatures. > >Any thoughts, experiences would be welcome. >Carl Pattinson The problem seems to be the high EGTs of the Rotax which stresses the exhaust pipes even more when lagged. There is another approach which does work well, ceramic coating, however I don't know if it's available this side of the pond Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mono overcenter landing gear position
>Cleve and All > >The landing gear does go over center is "just a slight bit", as you say. But >it is enough to lock it in place. But don't forget! If you have a bounce on landing the gear can unlock itself so you still need the "Down" lock Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cope, Dave M (GEL,MSX)" <Dave.Cope(at)lighting.ge.com>
Subject: Re: Mono overcenter landing gear position
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Cleve, I asked exactly the same question a while ago - the factory answer, if I recall correctly, was 1.5mm overcentre when locked - not a lot, but definitely positive overcentre. When the rubber spring is compressed, the effective overcentre increases. regards, Dave #340. -----Original Message----- Subject: Mono overcenter landing gear position Collective wisdom, I'm Looking for some input on the verfication of the over-center position on the mono. As I look at the completed installation (which took me far longer than I ever thought it would for a bunch of bolted together parts), I'm concerned about the possible build up of tolerances that may not result in a true over-center locked down position. There are assumptions that the landing gear weldment is perfect, the depth and positions of gear swing arm bearings is perfect and so too are other machined hole locations. As I try and visually line up the three pivot points, I find it difficult due to the large diameter of the retraction arm pivot, creating difficulty in determining exact center. What I'm coming up with visually is that if it is over center, it is not by much. Has this ever been an issue? Has anyone ever folded a gear when the lever was down and locked? We are not asked/told to verify position after assembley. Any collective (or factory) widsom on this issue? Thanks, Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Detroit, MO clevelee(at)cswebmail.com The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scales
Date: Mar 11, 2002
I can recommend these too - they really are well made, easy to use, accurate and compact - a bargain! Regards Roger Mills -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Digital Scales Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be interested in the following: Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make & model - Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99 These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of batteries, a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting and weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either resin or Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of scales for the Redux so this good be a good deal. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Atkinson" <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: ay length
Date: Mar 11, 2002
I am just wondering what you 914 powered flyers consider to be an adequate minimum runway length. The figure I have generally been quoted is 450 meters or 1500ft. I get the impression that this is a generic figure that will do for any Europa regardless of powerplant. Having read several accounts of 914 powered Europas with VP props leaping into the air like homesick angels, I wonder if any of you are happy operating from shorter strips, and how much benefit there is from the extra power and VP prop over say a 912 with fixed pitch. For comparison mine is a monowheel classic which will have a Wilksch WAM120 and an MT prop, and I will be operating from elevations of 500' or less, most of the time. Any comments gratefully received. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KarkelB(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Subject: Re: Runway length
mmmm....... wilksch WAM120 with MT prop.The two are the heaviest in their respective categories. I reckon you will need a good length of the runway to get airbourne!!! karim. # 420 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br>
Subject: Re: Runway length
......but the diesel is said to compare with 150 hp engines in performance due to the higher bottom-end torque, so i'd expect need for less runway? Alex, #529 KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote: >mmmm....... wilksch WAM120 with MT prop.The two are the heaviest in their >respective categories. I reckon you will need a good length of the runway to >get airbourne!!! > > karim. ># 420 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Digital Scales
Date: Mar 11, 2002
They are out of stock! Brian Davies kit 454 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Digital Scales > Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be interested > in the following: > > Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make & model - > Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99 > > These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of batteries, > a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting and > weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either resin or > Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of scales > for the Redux so this good be a good deal. > > Nigel Charles > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KarkelB(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Subject: Re: Runway length
......... the wilksch is a direct drive engine unlike the rotax that is geared. That means out of the quoted 120hp that the engine is rated at, you will only get approximately 80% of the total power since there a loss through the drive train etc. Talk to Donald Francis, chief PFA engineer and he will explain all to you. Talked to him in detail about this. karim. # 420 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
From: Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
Thanks Kevin, I used to live in San Mateo. Been to Bishop, really pretty. In fact, I set one of my trainees up with a job in the local hospital there. Ive got my SEL and am working on my Glider rating. It seems you can even fly IFR in a motorglider! Ira On 3/10/02 8:43 PM, "Kevin Klinefelter" wrote: > Chris, I am in Bishop CA. I have not yet ordered glider wings. I hope to try > em out at Sun&Fun. > You probably are aware of the fact that if your Europa gets registered as a > glider you would not need a SEL rating to fly it. Just an endorsement in > your log book to fly a powered glider because you have a glider rating. > > Ira, it's Chris who lives in MA. > > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Chris Davis > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > Kevin , I am also building a motorglider, just returned from fla. with my > wings !!!!!!!!!!!! do you have your wing kit and where are you? I am in > MA.and am glider licenced but no single engine licence. > I would love to hook up with other glider wing builders along the way. > Chris Davis A160 MG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> > Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft > > >> Shaun, Do you believe you will be able to register your Europa as a glider >> with the short wings, before building the long wings? >> >> Getting a glider rating is not difficult. It is an add on to your private >> and requires a check ride with an examiner but no written test. >> I am a glider instructor as well as private SEL and hope to offer the >> necessary instruction and endorsements to fellow Europa pilots when my kit >> becomes plane. I better get back out there and sand! >> Kevin A211 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk >> Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins >> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft >> >> There's a gotcha for registering as a motorglider. My understanding is > that >> although a motorglider >> doesn't require a medical, it does require a glider rating. So if you're >> not a glider pilot now, you'll >> need to be one before your first flight. Even if you, like me, are > building >> the short wings first. >> >> Shaun >> A207 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <clevelee(at)cswebmail.com> >> Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft >> >> >>> Fred, >>> That's why I found the glider wings option on the Eruopa so attractive > in >> the first place. While a hassel re-registering the plane as a motor > glider, >> it is an option to keep flying into the future should passage of medical > be >> a problem. >>> >>> On Sat, 09 March 2002, Fred Fillinger wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi, all -- >>>> >>>> Has anyone considered the impact of this proposed rule? Seems all you >>>> have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which >>>> weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where >>>> you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later >>>> maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) Even for 912S, there's hope. >>>> Don't have to flight test max Vh with wheel fairings (oops, left 'em >>>> at home), and do it on a hot, turbulent day. For 914, looks like too >>>> heavy. Sounds like civil disobedience, but there's gonna be some of >>>> that in the SLA rule, I predict, and FAA's ability to enforce here >>>> will slightly exceed that of the ultralights. >>>> >>>> The advantage is a "paper basis" for continued flight if one loses a >>>> medical on some dinky thing. You'd have to build light, and be >>>> "overgross" with any baggage with pax and full fuel. But trying to >>>> recertify later at lower weight/performance #'s, should loss of >>>> medical happen, will raise a red flag. It seems worth a try on >>>> initial cert, and considering this may help guide new bldrs in gear >>>> choice and light-building practices. >>>> >>>> Just 'typing out loud.' Any thoughts? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Fred F. >>>> >>>> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > >>> >>> >>> ___________________________________________________ >>> The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe >>> Better! Faster! More Powerful! >>> 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! >>> http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more work.
Date: Mar 11, 2002
"> After congratulating myself on my super sanitary installation of my > Andair fuel valve and associated fixturing and lines I got bit in the you> know what again. Come to put in the rudder cables and find out that they> will do a wonderful job of sawing the fuel lines in half post haste. -" Steve: Yes, yes, I had the same worry. You didn't say whether they were 3/8inch alum. like mine but the result is the same. I moved the pulleys about a half inch further forward which allowed the cable route to rise above the 3/8 lines. I have yet to discover what effect this will have on the 'front half' (pulleys to pedals) but it did relieve the aft routes (which I am sheathing in 1/4" nylaflow split and pasted to the walls near the cockpit). I have the extended baggage mod which provides more stations for affixing. Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Dear Paul, We have operated 912 powered Europas from Wombletons 400m concrete strip with success and, although we don't use all of its length, the shorter the strip the less options you have when things don't work out as they should. Forget the power aspect of the aircraft as there's no point getting off a strip you can't land in. Landing rolls are identical in Europas at gross weight, regardless of engine power. Again, landing and stopping in 200m is achievable, but with practice. In summary, a 400m strip with a good surface and clear approaches is not an unreasonable place from which to operate your Europa. Kind regards Andy Draper Technical Director ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Davis" <scrounge(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
Date: Mar 11, 2002
>Fred according to that formula we are aloud amax weight of 1369.58 lbs? chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider > Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > > > > Ira thanks for that. So when I send in for reg.(N#) call it a glider not > > airplane. Has anyone taken this to the point of FAA inspection and > > airworthiness certificate? > > > I just located FAA's definition of powered glider. Max weight divided > by wing span squared cannot exceed .62lb/ft 2. Advisory Circular > 21.17-2A. > > Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Generally speaking it's not power that gets you airborne but lift. Generally the wing produces lift. Higher thrust may get you to flying speed more quickly but if the A/C weight is higher then acceleration takes longer and the lift required and therefore the take off speed higher. If the aircraft configuration permits a higher wing angle of attack during the take off role then the increased power may allow the aircraft to take to the air more quickly with an increased pitch angle, however this may mean taking off at or below the power off stall speed which is not generally advised. Once airborne the thrust from the propeller does contribute directly to lift. I think a 100 hp Rotax produces around 200 kg of static thrust which converts back to about 50 kgs of lift at 15 degrees pitch angle. At 60 kts the thrust will be less than 200 kg. Of course a more powerful engine of the same weight will get an A/C airborne more quickly. With a heavier engine the situation is more complex. Maybe quicker to T/O then again maybe not. Jerry Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> Subject: Re: Runway length > ......but the diesel is said to compare with 150 hp engines in > performance due to the higher bottom-end torque, so i'd expect need for > less runway? > > Alex, #529 > > KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote: > > >mmmm....... wilksch WAM120 with MT prop.The two are the heaviest in their > >respective categories. I reckon you will need a good length of the runway to > >get airbourne!!! > > > > karim. > ># 420 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
Chris Davis wrote: > > Fred according to that formula we are aloud amax weight of 1369.58 lbs? > chris > > I just located FAA's definition of powered glider. Max weight divided > > by wing span squared cannot exceed .62lb/ft 2. Advisory Circular > > 21.17-2A. > > > > Fred F. I've been informed wingspan has been lengthened enough to comply. Put a square in the formula, and it's a matter of just inches. Like some things in life - football, or...better not go there. Best, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eamonn Sheridan <ESheridan(at)telepub.co.uk>
Subject: leak - Fuel dye
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Sorry to drag the old debate about fuel smells up again, but does anyone know where I can get auto fuel dye in the UK? Eamonn Sheridan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 11, 2002
I go along with everything that Andy Draper said but I would like to add the following observation. Last November when Laddingford's grass strip was nice and soft (?!?!?) I did several take-offs which I subsequently when out and measured as the ground marks were EASY to see. I was pretty close to max gross and each measured just under 200 metres. Obviously harder ground would take less. and as Andy said, the more room you have got, the more room there is for the errors that we all make all too often. Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic with 912 and NSI/Warp Drive wobbly prop. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mag grounding - a simple question
Date: Mar 11, 2002
And the switch body. Duncan McFadyean On Monday, March 11, 2002 4:22 AM, erichdtrombley(at)juno.com [SMTP:erichdtrombley(at)juno.com] wrote: > Yes, on both ends of the shield. > > Erich Trombley > A028 > > > I will start wiring the mag switches soon. Just to get a head start, > > are the mag switch wires to be shielded? I'm sure if I were paying > > attention, I would have figured that out! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > A227 - monowheel motorglider > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: USA Builders - Sport-Light Aircraft
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Seems all you > have to do (for trigear) is submit W&B for 1,232# gross, at which > weight you should meet the stall speed limits. Better for 912, where > you can max at 115 knots with prop pitch, followed by later > maintenance error in setting pitch. :-) There is at least one Europa in Australia flying in the ultralight category which was achieved by declaring a lower all up weight. Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more
>. Come to put in the rudder cables and find out that they> >will do a wonderful job of sawing the fuel lines in half post haste. -" >Steve: > Yes, yes, I had the same worry. You didn't say whether they were >3/8inch alum. like mine but the result is the same. I moved the pulleys >about a half inch further forward which allowed the cable route to rise >above the 3/8 lines. I buried the cables in a short tunnel of 2 ply BID, I would also suggest a length of Nyloseal nylon tubing over the cable . The fuel pipes went over the rudder cables not under. Don't forget the cables will go slack and flop a little when your feet are off the pedals, normal in the cruise, provided your shoes aren't too big to fit between the pedals. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Runway length
>mmmm....... wilksch WAM120 with MT prop.The two are the heaviest in their >respective categories. I reckon you will need a good length of the runway to >get airbourne!!! > > karim. ># 420 Not true. When I flew it in the early days, derated to about 80 bhp, we were off the ground, up to 6 feet altitude !?! back down again and stopped in about 600 meters. We had to, it was foggy. Mark was very keen to fly in the last century and it was 4 PM on 31 December 1999. That was a busy week {?:-) Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mono overcenter landing gear position
ght.ge.com> >Cleve, >I asked exactly the same question a while ago - the factory answer, if I >recall correctly, was 1.5mm overcentre when locked - not a lot, but >definitely positive overcentre. When the rubber spring is compressed, the >effective overcentre increases. >regards, >Dave #340. And when it relaxes after a bounce it will flick out of overcenter and unlock, unless restrained adequately by the down lock. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more
>Steve and All >The anchor for the seat belt is not going to be that critical. The position >of the belt is not custom fitted to the person using it anyway. Make sure that the bolt hole is surrounded by plenty of metal. If it pulls out if used in anger you will have a severe headache. IMHO the mounting plates are too small but I do know from experience that they will withstand well over 15 G (guess, could have been more) Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
>Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a >mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour >locks. The one place where the insulation is required as well as fireproofing is the oil return from the crankcase. The hose will tend to harden and crack if it gets regularly cooked, which it will if not protected. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: USA Builders-Motor Glider
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
> I just located FAA's definition of powered glider. Max weight divided > by wing span squared cannot exceed .62lb/ft 2. Advisory Circular > 21.17-2A. And now you know why the Europa motor glider suddenly sprouted winglets! Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net
Date: Mar 11, 2002
Subject: ing wings on
Does anyone else have problems getting the wings on? I am exhausted from an hour of struggling with the wings. Plane is close to flying, has been taxied several times and all seems fine. One problem with the wings seems to be the flap pin and the swivel bearing. It looks like it should just go right in but it does not without much jiggling and fiddling. Even when the flap pin engages, the wings are resistant to the last 3/4 inch. Has anyone changed the flap pin system to something that works? Am I the only one with this problem? Ken Carpenter A123 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Tennant@t-online.de (Barrington Tennant)
Subject: Re: Runway length
I have measured the take off roll and landing roll at 622 Kg AUW for certification in Germany and can confirm what Andy says. The landing roll at max weight is 240 meters converted to ISA conditions and the take off roll is 200 meters. (Classic 912 - MT). So if you can land then you can take off with any engine!! The item of more concern is temperature and hinderness clearance. The Europa is quick into the air but slow to climb untill the flaps are in and if there is a high hedge at the end of a 400 meter strip on a warm day I would be nervous. Barry Tennant David Watts schrieb: > > I go along with everything that Andy Draper said but I would like to add the > following observation. > > Last November when Laddingford's grass strip was nice and soft (?!?!?) I did > several take-offs which I subsequently when out and measured as the ground > marks were EASY to see. I was pretty close to max gross and each measured > just under 200 metres. Obviously harder ground would take less. and as Andy > said, the more room you have got, the more room there is for the errors that > we all make all too often. > > Dave Watts > G-BXDY Classic with 912 and NSI/Warp Drive wobbly prop. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Atkinson" <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Thanks to all for the very useful replies. I now have a much better idea of how much grass I shall need. Any thats left over I shall smoke. I am thinking ahead a bit till the day when I am fully in control of my take-offs and landings (does that day ever come?). Until then I will fly from a long hard runway. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: pa: Flying: Runway length
Date: Mar 12, 2002
I agree with Barry and Andy and would also stress the important issue of initial climb when the aircraft is loaded. (conditions are: hot/high/humid/calm). For me this means generally, that takeoff is more of an issue for consideration than landing. In 'climb critical' scenarios I've had one hand on the combined undercarriage lever, performing a progressive withdrawal of flaps as soon as the aircraft is safely airborne and up to speed. NB. I'm not advocating this technique as standard practice ! Nevertheless, I've been caught out (overestimated the climb profile!) on a number of occasions over the years. Even with raised flaps, the climb can take a few seconds to become established. Runways with a slight uphill camber, high trees/obstacles a few hundred metres from the threshold, humid days with no wind or tailwind (many private strip takeoffs are a compromise of wind direction and runway slope), rising ground on the take off line...... all have a significant bearing on the performance of my loaded aircraft. I would say that (for regular operation) a clear approach line at either end of the runway is as worthy of consideration as basic runway length. Obviously, the aircraft characteristics are not unique. Efficient, streamlined airplanes don' t need an excess of power, and an 80hp Europa pilot needs to be keenly aware of how performance can vary, according to the prevailing conditions. I see huge variations in climb performance using my fixed pitch, Warp Drive prop. I can't comment on the degree to which higher power and variable pitch propellers mitigate against this. 'IMHO', it's vital to consider this issue when assessing runway suitability. Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Share wanted
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Dear All, I am a group A pilot (200 hours) looking for a share in a Europa anywhere in this region. I live near Driffield so York or surrounding area will be ideal. If there is anyone on this group or knows of anyone on the group please let me know. Alternatively if anyone is looking to set up a new syndicate Im up for that. I only need a minimum of one partner but more will be fine. Kind regards Kevin kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more > >. Come to put in the rudder cables and find out that they> > >will do a wonderful job of sawing the fuel lines in half post haste. -" > >Steve: > > Yes, yes, I had the same worry. You didn't say whether they were > >3/8inch alum. like mine but the result is the same. I moved the pulleys > >about a half inch further forward which allowed the cable route to rise > >above the 3/8 lines. > > I buried the cables in a short tunnel of 2 ply BID, I would also suggest a > length of Nyloseal nylon tubing over the cable . The fuel pipes went over > the rudder cables not under. Don't forget the cables will go slack and flop > a little when your feet are off the pedals, normal in the cruise, provided > your shoes aren't too big to fit between the pedals. > Graham > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: ay length
Message text written by "Paul Atkinson" >I am just wondering what you 914 powered flyers consider to be an adequate minimum runway length. The figure I have generally been quoted is 450 meters or 1500ft. I get the impression that this is a generic figure that will do for any Europa regardless of powerplant. Having read several accounts of 914 powered Europas with VP props leaping into the air like homesick angels, I wonder if any of you are happy operating from shorter strips, and how much benefit there is from the extra power and VP prop over say a 912 with fixed pitch. For comparison mine is a monowheel classic which will have a Wilksch WAM120 and an MT prop, and I will be operating from elevations of 500' or less, most of the time. Any comments gratefully received.< I agree with the comments so far on this subject. Be aware that as there are several factors, all of which can affect take-off run and some of which can affect landing run. When some of these are added together in certain conditions it is possible to end up with with distances which are double the standard numbers. The CAA provide an excellent booklet giving recommended factors for this. Although they only give an approximate idea it provides a way of predicting whether the length available is sufficient. Remember that the take-off distance available to 50ft (TODA) can be more relevent than the take-off run available (TORA) if there are any trees or even hedges at the end of the runway. The factors and their affect on take-off and landing run and distances required (TORR/TODR & LRR/LDR) as published by the CAA are as follows: Factor TORR/TODR Correction LRR/LDR Correction Weight 2% per % 1% per % Temperature 1% per deg C 0.5% per % Pressure Alt 1% per 100ft 5% per 1,000ft Headwind 7% per 5kt 7% per 5kt Tailwind 20% per 5kt 20% per 5kt Up Slope 5% per % 2.5% per % Down Slope 2.5% per % 5% per % Dry Grass Add 20% to hard rwy figures Not published Wet Grass Add 30% to hard rwy figures Not published Soft Ground Add 25% to hard rwy figures Not published To apply these factors the performance for an individual aircraft needs to be measured for a known set of conditions (ideally fairly standard conditions ie. typical average weight, 15 degC, typical airfield pressure alt, zero wind or small head component, level hard runway). When subsequently calculating the performance on the day remember to apply the corrections in the correct sense. To avoid a lot of work with a calculator I have produced a spreadsheet which will apply the corrections. This sheet also does the weight and balance calculations having inserted fuel load (in volume), pilot & pax weights and baggage weight. If anyone is interested I could look at making it available. Naturally it would be free to Europa Club members but a small donation to the club funds would be appreciated from non-members. Finally when it comes to the actual take-off in limiting conditions the following two checks during the take-off run will help assess the stop-go decision as applied to Europas: 1. 25kts by 25% TORA 2. 35kts by 50% TORA If these are not acheived the take-off must be aborted. Of course to measure this markers need to be placed or the positions otherwise defined along the runway. Whilst most of us rarely operate close to the performance limits regularly it is nice to know how much margin you have in hand. For instance if a Europa needs 200m take-off run in standard conditions at MAUW, it will need 400m with the following conditions (Temp +30degC, Press Alt 3,000ft, 4kt tailwind, 2% up slope, soft grass). If there is a hedge at the end of the runway the standard TODR might be 300m so to clear the hedge in the above conditions you would need 600m. That is without a safety factor of 33% which the CAA recommends so the margins can become reduced quite significantly. Food for thought? Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Message text written by Graham Singleton >>mmmm....... wilksch WAM120 with MT prop.The two are the heaviest in their >respective categories. I reckon you will need a good length of the runway to >get airbourne!!! > > karim. ># 420 Not true. When I flew it in the early days, derated to about 80 bhp, we were off the ground, up to 6 feet altitude !?! back down again and stopped in about 600 meters. We had to, it was foggy. Mark was very keen to fly in the last century and it was 4 PM on 31 December 1999. That was a busy week {?:-) Graham< I don't doubt the performance but the useable payload must be of concern. The APS weight is unlikely to be less than a Subaru powered Europa. Several of these are up to MTOW with two average adults and full fuel ie. no baggage weight. Not very useful for touring. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: getting wings on
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Hi! Ken. Mine were a bit stiff early on, but have got better with repetitive rigging/derigging. When I put the flap extensions on at the inboard end I incorporated a tapered/'funnel' and a complete closeout to snuggle up to the fuselage when neutral, to guide the flap drive tube into place onto the spherical bearing. With this it is possible to give the wing a good sharp push and be sure that the pin and bearing are in line to mate together. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net Subject: getting wings on Does anyone else have problems getting the wings on? I am exhausted from an hour of struggling with the wings. Plane is close to flying, has been taxied several times and all seems fine. One problem with the wings seems to be the flap pin and the swivel bearing. It looks like it should just go right in but it does not without much jiggling and fiddling. Even when the flap pin engages, the wings are resistant to the last 3/4 inch. Has anyone changed the flap pin system to something that works? Am I the only one with this problem? Ken Carpenter A123 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Re: getting wings on
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Hi Perhaps you didn't drill the holes for the flap pins completely straight. I would go back to the manual and check the points that you are supposed to alighn with and take a good look at the pin alignment. It it starts tight and loosens when it is virtually inserted, then an alignment problem is probably the issue. What to do about it is another problem however. I wouldn't know what to do in that case other than replacing the plates in the end of the flap and re-drilling!! Ed Quoting kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net: > Does anyone else have problems getting the wings on? I am exhausted > from an hour of struggling with the wings. Plane is close to flying, > has been taxied several times and all seems fine. One problem with the > wings seems to be the flap pin and the swivel bearing. It looks like it > should just go right in but it does not without much jiggling and > fiddling. Even when the flap pin engages, the wings are resistant to > the last 3/4 inch. Has anyone changed the flap pin system to something > that works? Am I the only one with this problem? > Ken Carpenter > A123 > __ > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp/////// ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300/// www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
Carl Pattinson wrote: > > Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a > mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour > locks. > Out of curiosity I once did a crude test on the stuff, using an oven, with a digital temp meter probe inside the sleeve, hot air blocked from flowing inside. The internal temp rises quickly. Repeating the test with aluminum foil wrapped around the firesleeve made a significant difference. Like, 10 minutes to reach 160F, in 250F oven. With cool fuel flowing inside during climb and cruise, seems like it should carry enough calories out to stay ahead of the game in a hot day. It could mean the difference during prolonged idling, where fuel isn't flowing much, as the fuel line and contents have to be heated too. I'd spiral wrap a strip of foil around the sleeve, and shrink heat-shrink tubing around it, in place, with the bends established. Preferably a light color heat-shrink by a related rule applicable here. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: s that day ever come?"
Thanks to all for the very useful replies. I now have a much better idea of how much grass I shall need. Any thats left over I shall smoke. I am thinking ahead a bit till the day when I am fully in control of my take-offs and landings (does that day ever come?). Until then I will fly from a long hard runway. Paul>>>>> Yes Paul, I am sure it will get better. It just takes a little time, I certainly recommend a nice long runway for early flights, it reduces the pucker factor. I have done all my flying off a hard runway but believe grass may be a little more forgiving (Any comments out there ?) if you don't mind all the mud and grass in the wheel well.. I started flying my mono XS on December 4th, 2001 and I now have 43 hours and 114 landings behind me and my flight test programme is complete. Yesterday I took my wife, Paddy, out as the first passenger. She really enjoyed it after a little early apprehension about some light turbulence. Take-offs and landings just need practice and they get better as time goes by. Xwinds do need care, but that is typical if one flies a tailwheel plane. BTW, I recommend you smoke the grass AFTER the flight, not before. Cheers, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: ening of oil return hose, Rotax 912, 912S and 914.
<<<>>>> Based on correspondence some time ago on this subject, I installed a heat shield made out of the light gauge stainless heat shield material supplied in the kit. (I used Graham's phenolic firewall.) The shield extends horizontally between the engine and the silencer over the bottom area of the crankcase and is supported at the front end by a bracket mounted to the two unused tapped holes at the bottom corners of the crankcase. At the rear end, I secured it to the engine mounting frame with Adel clamps. The shield has two diagonal creases to stiffen and prevent "oil canning" and is shaped basically to prevent radiation and convection from the silencer to the oil hose and the crankcase. Since I only have about 50 hours run time on my engine I cannot say how effective it is but it is definitely not doing any harm and it minimises heat soak to the oil return hose from the silencer after shut down. Cheers, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greenroyd, Stephen" <stephen.greenroyd(at)cgey.com>
Subject: Re: Share wanted
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Kevin I have been think about building a Europa and would be interested in talking to anyone in the area who would consider forming a syndicate. I live in Bingley which I guess could fall into your catchment area. Best regards Steve espcrystalv(at)msn.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Share wanted Dear All, I am a group A pilot (200 hours) looking for a share in a Europa anywhere in this region. I live near Driffield so York or surrounding area will be ideal. If there is anyone on this group or knows of anyone on the group please let me know. Alternatively if anyone is looking to set up a new syndicate Im up for that. I only need a minimum of one partner but more will be fine. Kind regards Kevin kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more > >. Come to put in the rudder cables and find out that they> > >will do a wonderful job of sawing the fuel lines in half post haste. -" > >Steve: > > Yes, yes, I had the same worry. You didn't say whether they were > >3/8inch alum. like mine but the result is the same. I moved the pulleys > >about a half inch further forward which allowed the cable route to rise > >above the 3/8 lines. > > I buried the cables in a short tunnel of 2 ply BID, I would also suggest a > length of Nyloseal nylon tubing over the cable . The fuel pipes went over > the rudder cables not under. Don't forget the cables will go slack and flop > a little when your feet are off the pedals, normal in the cruise, provided > your shoes aren't too big to fit between the pedals. > Graham > > ******************************************************************************************** " This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Cap Gemini Ernst & Young Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message ". ******************************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Support Site
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Graham Clarke has now supplied his corrected version of his Europa Simulator program. See Graham's page at http://www.crix.org.uk John Cliff Europa Forum minder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Pitt" <david(at)pitt27.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Alert Ellison Throttle Boby Injector EFS-2 -CORRECTION
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: Re: Alert Ellison Throttle Boby Injector EFS-2 -CORRECTION ----- Original Message ----- From: David Pitt Subject: Alert Ellison Throttle Boby Injector EFS-2 Members operating the Ellison Throttle Body Injector EFS-2 are cautioned to determine if there is any air leakage through the Ellison metal plate logo attachment pins fastened to the back of the regulator cover. The two securing pin holes are not blind, but penetrate to the diaphragm. This leakage has caused the engine to run rough and was obviously difficult to trace! Ellison has been alerted and no doubt my PFA inspector will advise the PFA Dave Pitt G-OURO Please be advised that Ellison has clarified that the EFS-2 is designed to allow leakage through the drive rivet holes referred to above. This is to assure continued engine operation in the event that the total pressure port in the inlet bellmouth is obstructed by an insect or impact ice. They also advise that the injector is not recommended for use with mogas fuels. Dave Pitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: plane anti-servo tab
Hi all, I am about ready to separate the antiservo tab from the tailplane. Does anyone have a slick method for doing the angled cut on the bottom? Thanks, John, A230 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Edward Gladstone <Ted_Gladstone(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: ing wings on
>> Does anyone else have problems getting the wings on? I am exhausted from an hour of struggling with the wings. Plane is close to flying, has been taxied several times and all seems fine. One problem with the wings seems to be the flap pin and the swivel bearing. It looks like it should just go right in but it does not without much jiggling and fiddling. Even when the flap pin engages, the wings are resistant to the last 3/4 inch. Has anyone changed the flap pin system to something that works? Am I the only one with this problem? Ken Carpenter A123 >> We found that the swivel bearing in the flap drive tube tended to rotate and jam the pin when the round end of the drive pin bumped into it. We solved the problem by making a bullet shaped point about 1" long out of redux on the flap drive pin. This guided the bearing into alignment and the extra length allowed it to be entered first leaving one free to align the wing lift pins without the worry about the flap pin falling out. We put engineers blue on all the points that could be tight on the spar and gradually relieved the tight spots until the wings slid in smoothly (the mating faces of the spar bushes required a slight bevel) Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Mycroft" <frankm(at)clara.net>
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Dear Rowland Yes, I know this will go to the forum, possibly along with 449 others, but because most of us haven't mentioned our preferences before you can't assume we are 'a few'! Only a very few of the subscribers to the forum are on my personal address book, and most of the people one might wish to reply to never will be. I find it much easier to remember how to send a message to the forum (a single address, which is in my address book), than to any one of 450 subscribers, for whom , to me, the easy answer is to click the 'Reply to' button, when we can read the mail we are replying to as we write. I don't care what other forums (?fora?) do, lets do what most of us think is best. Cheers Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Europa Club Membership Secretary" <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> Subject: forum settings > I've let John Cliff handle most of the recent comments about how the > list is configured, and I hope I'm not treading on his toes by > mentioning the following points. > > The Europa Forum is intended for messages likely to be of general > interest to _all_ Europa people. It has never purported to be a > substitute for the maintenance of a personal e-mail address book of > one's regular correspondents. > > It is configured in the same way as pretty much all the other e-mail > lists around - that is, the default is to reply to the list. On none > of the many discussion-style e-mail lists that I subscribe to (about > 7 at present I think - I usually read {except for the spam} and deal > with about 100 e-mail messages per day) have I seen any requests by > users for a "reply-to-sender" default. > > When the Europa list was first set up, it conformed to the standard > model, and I cannot recall a single complaint about it in the early > years. It's very unfortunate that because of the limitations of > out-of-date server software at Aviators Network, the list was then > re-configured in a non-standard way, leading to the formation of > inappropriate habits by users over some years. > > I'm sorry that for a few of the 450-odd subscribers to the list, the > recent changes have been uncomfortable, and we hope that things will > seem less awkward as familiarity grows. For those who are using an > e-mail system provided by their employer and have little control over > its configuration, perhaps you should consider moving recreational > activities to a home computer where you can choose what to install. > It's hard to envisage exactly how any modification will be received > by all those affected, but we believe we have (in time stolen from > Europa-building) set things up to give the greatest benefit to the > majority, while minimising future maintenance requirements. (Of > course if there are 450 replies to this post all disagreeing, it > might be necessary to reconsider!) > > We also remember that perhaps one day eager volunteers will arise, > offering to take over the administrative tasks we currently perform > for the Club, and we are trying to leave the shop as clean and tidy > as possible for those new incumbents. > > As for a separate list for fliers only, I hope that does not happen, > personally wish to know about all aspects of the Europa experience. > If people get into the habit of prefixing their flying-topic message > subject lines with "flying" then anyone who wants to see only those > posts can arrange a filter (or message handler) to bin all the rest - > and those who are not interested in flying (what!) can do the > reverse. Of course, some messages impinge on both building and > flying, so I cannot be sure what to recommend in that case as one or > other of the filters mentioned above would not work as desired .... > but certainly choosing informative subject lines is a great help to > all users. > > regards > > Rowland > > | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary > | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 > | e-mail website > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: Re: Heat Insulation of fuel lines
From: Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net>
On 03/10/2002 11:18, "Freeserve" wrote: > Hi All, > > I havent posted to this site recently so hope this ARRIVES at the correct > place. > > We are about to install engine for the hopefully last time (had to be > removed for painting), and need to replace the sleeving on the engine side > fuel lines. We had originally used the relatively cheap foam pipe lagging as > found at B&Q (plumbing supplies) but the PFA are making disapproving noises > so will have to think again. I was under the impression that the purpose of > the insulation was for heat reduction purposes for which the foam sleeving > had excellent insulation properties (covered in aluminum tape for > protection) but it seems that the purpose of the reccommended FIRESLEEVE is > more for fire retardant purposes than heat insulation. > > First question - where can one purchase FIRESLEEVE in the UK at a reasonable > cost. My local hose and hydraulic supplier wants about 20 per metre which > is going to cost the best part of 50 to do the job. > > Another product I have come accross which claims to be better than > Firesleeve is Thermo Sleeve made by Thermo-Tec. It is an aluminised fabric > material, again very expensive (about 100 for 12 feet in the UK but $40 in > the USA for similar). If I could get this from the States then it might be > worth considering. > > Has any Europa builder considered using Thermo Sleeve and if so is it > suitable. > > They also manufacture Thermo Sleeve for lagging exhaust pipes. It is claimed > that lagging the header pipes improves engine performance. I know we have > been down this road with Europas before and it seems that the end result is > cracked manifold pipes. What is the current thinking on lagging the exhaust > pipes. It would certainly reduce the cowling temperatures. > > Any thoughts, experiences would be welcome. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > Check out Bentley-Harris. They are specialists in piping and tubing protection. The UK facility is in Rochdale, England. I installed special fire and insulation sleeving on N111EU during the build process and have never had a problem with vapor locking (750HRS) in the most severe conditions in the great South West US. Try a search on-line... kp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Portouw" <portouwl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Rowland, I like the current configuration. It conforms to the norms of most other lists around the world. If we can master flying, we surely can adapt to a change in the list configuration! Larry Portouw Larry(at)portouw.com -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Membership Secretary Subject: forum settings I've let John Cliff handle most of the recent comments about how the list is configured, and I hope I'm not treading on his toes by mentioning the following points. The Europa Forum is intended for messages likely to be of general interest to _all_ Europa people. It has never purported to be a substitute for the maintenance of a personal e-mail address book of one's regular correspondents. It is configured in the same way as pretty much all the other e-mail lists around - that is, the default is to reply to the list. On none of the many discussion-style e-mail lists that I subscribe to (about 7 at present I think - I usually read {except for the spam} and deal with about 100 e-mail messages per day) have I seen any requests by users for a "reply-to-sender" default. When the Europa list was first set up, it conformed to the standard model, and I cannot recall a single complaint about it in the early years. It's very unfortunate that because of the limitations of out-of-date server software at Aviators Network, the list was then re-configured in a non-standard way, leading to the formation of inappropriate habits by users over some years. I'm sorry that for a few of the 450-odd subscribers to the list, the recent changes have been uncomfortable, and we hope that things will seem less awkward as familiarity grows. For those who are using an e-mail system provided by their employer and have little control over its configuration, perhaps you should consider moving recreational activities to a home computer where you can choose what to install. It's hard to envisage exactly how any modification will be received by all those affected, but we believe we have (in time stolen from Europa-building) set things up to give the greatest benefit to the majority, while minimising future maintenance requirements. (Of course if there are 450 replies to this post all disagreeing, it might be necessary to reconsider!) We also remember that perhaps one day eager volunteers will arise, offering to take over the administrative tasks we currently perform for the Club, and we are trying to leave the shop as clean and tidy as possible for those new incumbents. As for a separate list for fliers only, I hope that does not happen, personally wish to know about all aspects of the Europa experience. If people get into the habit of prefixing their flying-topic message subject lines with "flying" then anyone who wants to see only those posts can arrange a filter (or message handler) to bin all the rest - and those who are not interested in flying (what!) can do the reverse. Of course, some messages impinge on both building and flying, so I cannot be sure what to recommend in that case as one or other of the filters mentioned above would not work as desired .... but certainly choosing informative subject lines is a great help to all users. regards Rowland | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 | e-mail website ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
From: Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net>
On 03/11/2002 16:01, "Graham Singleton" wrote: >> Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a >> mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour >> locks. > > The one place where the insulation is required as well as fireproofing is > the oil return from the crankcase. The hose will tend to harden and crack > if it gets regularly cooked, which it will if not protected. > Graham > > Hello Graham! Just a bit of help regarding the fuel line insulation discussion. Check out Bentley-Harris. They are specialists in piping and tubing protection. The UK facility is in Rochdale, England. I installed special fire and insulation sleeving on N111EU during the build process and have never had a problem with vapor locking (750HRS) in the most severe conditions in the great South West US. Try a search on-line... kp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Runway length
<002d01c1c940$14f56140$9b45fd3e@g.watts> <3C8DB30D.ACAFEEC8@t-online.de> >I am thinking ahead a bit till the day when I am fully in control of my >take-offs and landings (does that day ever come?). Until then I will fly >from a long hard runway. > >Paul In my experience a long grass runway is more forgiving than a hard one. The wheel will skid a little instead of grabbing and causing a swerve or whatever. It does need to be smooth and reasonably flat though. Remember also that on grass take off can be more extended by grass height and landing will be reduced . Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: blow fuse
I see where the bus is connected to the electrical system through a slow blow fuse. I would think Aircraft Spruce would have one of those, but I'll be darned if I can find it. Does anyone out there know where to get the appropriate fuse for the electrical system main supply? I figure I need a 30 and 50 amp for my 2 independent electrical systems. Thanks, Dave Anderson A227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
In a message dated 3/12/02 9:28:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, DJA727(at)aol.com writes: << I see where the bus is connected to the electrical system through a slow blow fuse. I would think Aircraft Spruce would have one of those, but I'll be darned if I can find it. Does anyone out there know where to get the appropriate fuse for the electrical system main supply? I figure I need a 30 and 50 amp for my 2 independent electrical systems. Thanks, Dave Anderson A227 >> Hi All, I was wondering, while looking through several electronics catalogs, if a time delay fuse is the same thing or would function as a slow blow. Troy Maynor troymaynor(at)aol.com N120EU Monowheel Classic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Subject: 's Her Name
Hi All, Please forgive me but I can't help myself. The other day on the forum I mentioned in passing that I should think of a name for my Europa. Today while sanding the fuselage for the ump-teenth time I may have settled on a name. It is shared by my first girl friend in high school..........Ol' Sandy. }: ) Best Regards Troy (maybe breathing too much acetone) Maynor troymaynor(at)aol.com N120EU ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
Date: Mar 12, 2002
All Fuses for the power leads are often protected using a "fuseable link" In the information I got from AeroElectric suggest using a short (6" ) of the same type wire only 2 sizes smaller. Take a look at his web page. http://www.aeroelectric.com/ Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
Date: Mar 12, 2002
A foil sleeve the same as on the coolant pipes on a 914 is available from Summit racing in Akron, Ohio. Their number is 1-800-230-3030 or www.summitracing.com This is the only way we kept the oil lines from frying in a 914 installation in the company (U.S.) demonstrators. Without it 100 hours was average lifespan of the lower line. This stuff is better for heat protection than firesleeve, although I am not sure if it is better for actual flame protection. As an aside it dropped oil temps 4 to 8 degrees F. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines Carl Pattinson wrote: > > Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a > mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour > locks. > Out of curiosity I once did a crude test on the stuff, using an oven, with a digital temp meter probe inside the sleeve, hot air blocked from flowing inside. The internal temp rises quickly. Repeating the test with aluminum foil wrapped around the firesleeve made a significant difference. Like, 10 minutes to reach 160F, in 250F oven. With cool fuel flowing inside during climb and cruise, seems like it should carry enough calories out to stay ahead of the game in a hot day. It could mean the difference during prolonged idling, where fuel isn't flowing much, as the fuel line and contents have to be heated too. I'd spiral wrap a strip of foil around the sleeve, and shrink heat-shrink tubing around it, in place, with the bends established. Preferably a light color heat-shrink by a related rule applicable here. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 12, 2002
Hi Paul, I used to fly our company demonstrators regularly in and out of a private 900-foot grass strip. Mono was 914 with an airmaster prop, the trike a 912S and a whirlwind hydraulic prop. Plenty of length, provided you practiced it. Interestingly the 912S-powered plane would clear the 4-foot fence by 50 feet, the 914-powered plane 25 or 30. Regardless of flap settings on the trike. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Paul Atkinson Subject: Runway length I am just wondering what you 914 powered flyers consider to be an adequate minimum runway length. The figure I have generally been quoted is 450 meters or 1500ft. I get the impression that this is a generic figure that will do for any Europa regardless of powerplant. Having read several accounts of 914 powered Europas with VP props leaping into the air like homesick angels, I wonder if any of you are happy operating from shorter strips, and how much benefit there is from the extra power and VP prop over say a 912 with fixed pitch. For comparison mine is a monowheel classic which will have a Wilksch WAM120 and an MT prop, and I will be operating from elevations of 500' or less, most of the time. Any comments gratefully received. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: getting wings on
>>> Edward Gladstone 03/12/02 08:22pm >>> >> Does anyone else have problems getting the wings on? I am exhausted from an hour of struggling with the wings. Plane is close to flying, has been taxied several times and all seems fine. One problem with the wings seems to be the flap pin and the swivel bearing. It looks like it should just go right in but it does not without much jiggling and fiddling. Even when the flap pin engages, the wings are resistant to the last 3/4 inch. Has anyone changed the flap pin system to something that works? Am I the only one with this problem? Ken Carpenter A123 >> We found that the swivel bearing in the flap drive tube tended to rotate and jam the pin when the round end of the drive pin bumped into it. We solved the problem by making a bullet shaped point about 1" long out of redux on the flap drive pin. This guided the bearing into alignment and the extra length allowed it to be entered first leaving one free to align the wing lift pins without the worry about the flap pin falling out. We put engineers blue on all the points that could be tight on the spar and gradually relieved the tight spots until the wings slid in smoothly (the mating faces of the spar bushes required a slight bevel) Ted Dear Ted If the bearing is able to rotate more than 5 degrees in any direction then it must not be pushed fully in to the housing. The design of the housing should limit rotation to allow enough movement due to dihedral plus a small clearance only. regards Andy Draper Europa Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Chris Cameron <chris.cameron(at)paradise.net.nz>
Greetings everyone. I've tried to remain out of this debate and see how things go, but I felt I should add my comments and observations. As various people have mentioned, this forum is now operating like all the other mail groups that I've experienced. In fact when I first tried to reply to a posting, I was caught by the 'quaint' reply scheme! However, it would appear that unlike most of those groups I've been involved with, there are a lot of public postings where people would prefer to send private replies. Most groups I've been subscribed to have had mainly public replies. Then again, on my mail client, I use "reply" to reply to the group and "reply to all" to reply to the sender (deleting the group address) or the sender and the group. This will, of course, also work if the group reverts to its former operation (if the mailgroup software that operated this way is still loaded onto the server). Out of curiousity, I looked at the Majordomo (a fairly common maillist server) FAQ, which had this to say on Reply-to: Whether you should have a "Reply-To:" or not depends on the charter of your list and the nature of its users. If the list is a discussion list and you generally want replies to go back to the list, you can include one. Some people don't like being told what to do, and prefer to be able to choose whether to send a private reply or a reply to the list just by using the right function on their mail agent. Take note that if you do use a "Reply-To:", then some mail agents make it much harder for a person on the list to send a private reply. mail loops if any of the members of your list are running fairly-common but broken software which doesn't know what an envelope address is. (Many Microsoft products, as well as many other PC-based non-SMTP/Internet mail systems which work through an SMTP gateway.) Regards Chris Cameron Quoting Frank Mycroft : > Dear Rowland > > Yes, I know this will go to the forum, possibly along with 449 others, > but > because most of us haven't mentioned our preferences before you can't > assume > we are 'a few'! Only a very few of the subscribers to the forum are on > my > personal address book, and most of the people one might wish to reply > to > never will be. I find it much easier to remember how to send a message > to > the forum (a single address, which is in my address book), than to any > one > of 450 subscribers, for whom , to me, the easy answer is to click the > 'Reply to' button, when we can read the mail we are replying to as we > write. > I don't care what other forums (?fora?) do, lets do what most of us > think is > best. > > Cheers > > Frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Europa Club Membership Secretary" <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> > Subject: forum settings > > > > I've let John Cliff handle most of the recent comments about how the > > list is configured, and I hope I'm not treading on his toes by > > mentioning the following points. > > > > The Europa Forum is intended for messages likely to be of general > > interest to _all_ Europa people. It has never purported to be a > > substitute for the maintenance of a personal e-mail address book of > > one's regular correspondents. > > > > It is configured in the same way as pretty much all the other e-mail > > lists around - that is, the default is to reply to the list. On none > > of the many discussion-style e-mail lists that I subscribe to (about > > 7 at present I think - I usually read {except for the spam} and deal > > with about 100 e-mail messages per day) have I seen any requests by > > users for a "reply-to-sender" default. > > > > When the Europa list was first set up, it conformed to the standard > > model, and I cannot recall a single complaint about it in the early > > years. It's very unfortunate that because of the limitations of > > out-of-date server software at Aviators Network, the list was then > > re-configured in a non-standard way, leading to the formation of > > inappropriate habits by users over some years. > > > > I'm sorry that for a few of the 450-odd subscribers to the list, the > > recent changes have been uncomfortable, and we hope that things will > > seem less awkward as familiarity grows. For those who are using an > > e-mail system provided by their employer and have little control > over > > its configuration, perhaps you should consider moving recreational > > activities to a home computer where you can choose what to install. > > It's hard to envisage exactly how any modification will be received > > by all those affected, but we believe we have (in time stolen from > > Europa-building) set things up to give the greatest benefit to the > > majority, while minimising future maintenance requirements. (Of > > course if there are 450 replies to this post all disagreeing, it > > might be necessary to reconsider!) > > > > We also remember that perhaps one day eager volunteers will arise, > > offering to take over the administrative tasks we currently perform > > for the Club, and we are trying to leave the shop as clean and tidy > > as possible for those new incumbents. > > > > As for a separate list for fliers only, I hope that does not happen, > > personally wish to know about all aspects of the Europa experience. > > If people get into the habit of prefixing their flying-topic message > > subject lines with "flying" then anyone who wants to see only those > > posts can arrange a filter (or message handler) to bin all the rest > - > > and those who are not interested in flying (what!) can do the > > reverse. Of course, some messages impinge on both building and > > flying, so I cannot be sure what to recommend in that case as one or > > other of the filters mentioned above would not work as desired .... > > but certainly choosing informative subject lines is a great help to > > all users. > > > > regards > > > > Rowland > > > > | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary > > | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 > > | e-mail website > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > > > ___________________________ > ____________________________________________ > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Sweeting <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scales
Date: Mar 13, 2002
No they're not!, ordered one online at 15:00 yesterday, it arrived first post (08:00am) this morning.... Now what can I weigh first???? cheers Paul. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Davies [SMTP:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk] > Sent: 11 March 2002 11:55 > To: forum(at)europaclub.org.uk > Subject: Re: Digital Scales > > They are out of stock! > Brian Davies kit 454 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> > Subject: Digital Scales > > > > Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be > interested > > in the following: > > > > Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make & model > - > > Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99 > > > > These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of > batteries, > > a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting and > > weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either resin > or > > Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of scales > > for the Redux so this good be a good deal. > > > > Nigel Charles > > > The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract. ntl Group Limited ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Digital Scales
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Oh, the wonders of internet shopping. I will try again. Thanks for the info. Brian Davies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Sweeting" <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com> Subject: Re: Digital Scales > No they're not!, ordered one online at 15:00 yesterday, it arrived first > post (08:00am) this morning.... > Now what can I weigh first???? > > cheers > Paul. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Davies [SMTP:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk] > > Subject: Re: Digital Scales > > > > They are out of stock! > > Brian Davies kit 454 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> > > Subject: Digital Scales > > > > > > > Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be > > interested > > > in the following: > > > > > > Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make & model > > - > > > Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99 > > > > > > These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of > > batteries, > > > a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting and > > > weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either resin > > or > > > Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of scales > > > for the Redux so this good be a good deal. > > > > > > Nigel Charles > > > > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK > > > > > > > > The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention > of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended > addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is > unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any > representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract. > > ntl Group Limited > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Having had an in-flight break in the return oil line, I can enthusiastically recommend the Summit Racing foil sleeve, which Jimmy recommended to me. No further problems after installing it. Garry V. Stout District Manager, AT&T Business Services Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651 *****Please note new e-mail address****** -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines A foil sleeve the same as on the coolant pipes on a 914 is available from Summit racing in Akron, Ohio. Their number is 1-800-230-3030 or www.summitracing.com This is the only way we kept the oil lines from frying in a 914 installation in the company (U.S.) demonstrators. Without it 100 hours was average lifespan of the lower line. This stuff is better for heat protection than firesleeve, although I am not sure if it is better for actual flame protection. As an aside it dropped oil temps 4 to 8 degrees F. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines Carl Pattinson wrote: > > Unfortunately FIRESLEEVE on the fuel lines (in the engine bay) is part of a > mandatory mod (here in the UK at least) to reduce the possibility of vapour > locks. > Out of curiosity I once did a crude test on the stuff, using an oven, with a digital temp meter probe inside the sleeve, hot air blocked from flowing inside. The internal temp rises quickly. Repeating the test with aluminum foil wrapped around the firesleeve made a significant difference. Like, 10 minutes to reach 160F, in 250F oven. With cool fuel flowing inside during climb and cruise, seems like it should carry enough calories out to stay ahead of the game in a hot day. It could mean the difference during prolonged idling, where fuel isn't flowing much, as the fuel line and contents have to be heated too. I'd spiral wrap a strip of foil around the sleeve, and shrink heat-shrink tubing around it, in place, with the bends established. Preferably a light color heat-shrink by a related rule applicable here. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)easilink.com>
Subject: Jaussi" <jaussi(at)easilink.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2002
I have several questions on GPS antennas for panel mount. 1. The Garmin instructions refer to a 15" radius ground plane. How is this being done in Europa and is it necessary? 2. I have seen some indications of splitting and sharing antenna with two nav radios. Can this be done with comm radios and can the GPS antenna be shared with tow GPS/ 3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems. Hope you avionics people out ther can hel. I am a new builder ( since Dec.) but have been watching this forum since 1997 and feel almost like family. Many thanks to all who contribute. This is the first time I have not been able to find an answer in the archives. I doubt i could build this aircraft successfully with out the forum. Curtis Jaussi Kit 216 N4270G jaussi(at)easilink.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: getting wings on
Dear Ken, Check that the bearings are pushed fully into their housings, otherwise the bearing inner will rotate too much and cause difficulty rigging. The bearings should swivel only about 5 degrees. Kind regards Andy Draper Technical Director ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Lamb" <ybh35(at)dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel leak - Fuel dye
Date: Mar 12, 2002
The smell of fuel can come from so small a leak that it will not show up with dye. I suggest that you re-check and tighten all connections. This worked for me. Steve Lamb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Change this.. change that... do some more
Dear Graham, On what do you base your opinion that the seat belt anchor plates are too small? The plates in G-KWIP did not rip out of the composite during your accident. Kind regards Andy Draper Technical Director ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 13, 2002
> I like the current configuration. It conforms to the norms of most > other lists around the world. If we can master flying, we surely can > adapt to a change in the list configuration! Several people have said this, but it isn't true. Certainly not on the lists I've been on (and that's quite a lot). The only other list I've been on (am still on) had to be converted to the mode where reply was sent only to the original sender after confidential information was broadcast to several hundred people too many times. Having said that, I think the talk about how the list is set up should stop. Who cares what the default is, the list is here and it's up to the list owner how he runs it (and we all owe hime a few pints for taking the time to run it). If you don't like the defailt settings, change them. Anyone can change the 'default reply' to be either the list or the sender (see http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/). This has been said several times so I can't see the point in going on and on about it. Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 13, 2002
> I find it much easier to remember how to send a message to > the forum (a single address, which is in my address book), than to any one > of 450 subscribers, for whom , to me, the easy answer is to click the > 'Reply to' button, when we can read the mail we are replying to as we write. Then what is the problem with turning off the Reply-To property in your profile, so that your mail program behaves as you wish ? John Cliff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re:
Curtis Jaussi wrote: > > I have several questions on GPS antennas for panel mount. > 1. The Garmin instructions refer to a 15" radius ground plane. How is this being done in > > Europa and is it necessary? > UPS-AT says 18" ground plane. It's weird, in that it's counter to the general rule for ground plane = 1/4 wavelength (less than pinky finger for GPS). A handheld GPS can't fake a ground plane that big, and my UPS-AT panel map-comm works fine inside the house w/o such. It may not be so much performance as mitigating effects of interference re-radiating from your comm or ELT antenna, in presence of strong fields, or your comm's xmit. Even there, VHF comm transmissions (except for ATIS) are short and thus no big deal. It can be made with alum foil, but I hate to keep adding weight, not just foil, but the darn glue. If desired, a 15", 4-wire radial and duct tape ground plane can be tried later, if there's a problem. Unlike a metal airplane, all we're doing is adding more radiating elements inside a small plastic plane so as to mess something else up. > 2. I have seen some indications of splitting and sharing antenna with two nav radios. Can this be done with comm radios and can the GPS antenna be shared with tow GPS/ I don't think you'll ever see a GPS splitter. The signals are too weak to suffer the mutual loss of signal. Also, the center wire feeds DC to the antenna, so we can't design a splitter that interconnects that DC also, and wait to see who calls back about why their $3,000 GPS box mysteriously conked. Circuitry to prevent that causes further losses. There are splitters for comm, but they have to prevent xmit power from feeding back to the other comm. A relay design does this, but one catalog I have wants you to pay $409 for the privilege of a huge 3db loss. > 3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems. UPS-AT is also silent on this, but theoretically a few inches is enough, as they don't xmit. More than that would seem to not pose a layout prob on the fuselage top - later rectification method being unappealing? Best, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dari Sagar" <dari_sagar(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: EUROPA CLUB FRENCH TRIP
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Bryan, I would like to put my name down for the trip to France. I have a mono-wheel Europa, Reg. G-DURO. I hangar it and fly out of Bidford-on-Avon. I've only done 2 trips across the channel (accompanied), so its all still quite new and daunting to me! Would like the oppertunity of making this trip with other experienced(?) fliers who are familiar with the channel crossing exercise. Hope to hear from you soon. Regards, Dari From: BRYNALL(at)aol.com >Subject: EUROPA CLUB FRENCH TRIP >Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:28:50 EST > > >We still have a vacancy on this trip round France if anyone is keen to >join. > >The plan is for six Europas to rendezvous at Laddingford in Kent on Sunday >28th April, and overnight in Normandy. > >The trip will take in The Bay of Biscay (La Rochelle), the Mediterranean >(Montpellier), and Paris. > >If you are interested, or want to know more, please contact me by E-mail or >phone. > >Bryan Allsop......Tel: 01 246 207733 >In the event of problems contact http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: antenna
Hi Curtis, Welcome to the fun world of Europa builders, I wish you much success. FWIW, I can give you my experience with a Garmin 430 panel mount GPS/NAV/COM. The fixed "tear drop bubble" type antenna (~ 4 in. long by ~3 in. wide-this is estimate since mine is at the airport.) which is supplied for this unit is primarily designed to be installed on the top outside of a metal aircraft. I installed mine inside the rear upper fuselage with a custom made fiberglass flanged channel bracket floxed onto the surface just behind the baggage bay bulkhead. The antenna is supplied with its own precision sized rectangular ground plane which is basically the same size as the antenna. This antenna works well - when I first powered the installation up in my garage with a lot of house structure above the antenna, I was surprised to see it acquire the required number of satellites and show me my position at 125 Misty Cove Lane - cool ! Flight performance of the GPS is excellent. Regret that I cannot help on your items 2 & 3. Cheers, John N262WF, A099, mono XS, 912S Curtis Jaussi wrote: > I have several questions on GPS antennas for panel mount. > 1. The Garmin instructions refer to a 15" radius ground plane. How is this being done in Europa and is it necessary? > > 2. I have seen some indications of splitting and sharing antenna with two nav radios. Can this be done with comm radios and can the GPS antenna be shared with tow GPS/ > > 3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems. > > Hope you avionics people out ther can hel. > > I am a new builder ( since Dec.) but have been watching this forum since 1997 and feel almost like family. Many thanks to all who contribute. This is the first time I have not been able to find an answer in the archives. I doubt i could build this aircraft successfully with out the forum. > > Curtis Jaussi Kit 216 N4270G > jaussi(at)easilink.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
The fuse (and breaker) company web sites have the charts that show the trip time vs. amps. Even fast-blow doesn't pop at just above rated current before next Tuesday. Slow-blows work more like breakers. Go to an auto parts store and there are many higher-amp fuses available, in a variety of packages. Some say "fusible link replacement." Although, I don't like the idea of a blade connection for supplying a main bus, and the ring-connector types may not be available in 20-30A. Whether fast-slow who knows (could again look it up), but work in an automobile application for feeding busses. Which "main supply" are you referring to as needing 50A? Feed to the bus, or from alternator to that fuse? The manual's diagram shows 30A slow-blow from the alt, then 25A whatever to the bus, logically smaller. A 30A fast-blow vs. max the alternator can do will probably work fine too, though fast-blow not needed there. Higher than 30A from the alt, when downstream fuses will pop anyway, is only increasing the chances of frying the alternator regulator, if fault is limited to that circuit. I thus used a 30A pullable circuit breaker, so it can be popped on fault in only the alt circuit. Otherwise, it's master off, nothing on the bus works, and alt regulator could still smoke. BTW, anybody read about the new Diamond Star DA-40? IFR-approved, no vacuum. Required aux power for key stuff then is 28 AA pink-bunny cells from the supermarket. FAA-approved. Regards, Fred F. > << I see where the bus is connected to the electrical system through a slow > blow > fuse. I would think Aircraft Spruce would have one of those, but I'll be > darned if I can find it. Does anyone out there know where to get the > appropriate fuse for the electrical system main supply? I figure I need a 30 > and 50 amp for my 2 independent electrical systems. > > Thanks, > > Dave Anderson > A227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Most contact breakers are effectively slow blow fuses due to the way that they work. Anything other than a contact breaker would be a liability as the main fuse in an aircraft electrical system (ie if there were a surge you would loose all your electrics and changing fuses in flight is not an option - asuming you have a spare !) ----- Original Message ----- From: <DJA727(at)aol.com> Subject: slow blow fuse > I see where the bus is connected to the electrical system through a slow blow > fuse. I would think Aircraft Spruce would have one of those, but I'll be > darned if I can find it. Does anyone out there know where to get the > appropriate fuse for the electrical system main supply? I figure I need a 30 > and 50 amp for my 2 independent electrical systems. > > Thanks, > > Dave Anderson > A227 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Dawson" <mtd(at)ilkley.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Intercom.
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Many thanks to those who offered advice on my intercom problem - Geoff hit the nail on the head - I have a FC/403/MC so I need to cut the jumper lead - pity the panel has to come out to do this. Michael D - G-PEGY. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> Subject: Re: Intercom. > Michael Dawson wrote: > > > > Have we any avionics experts out there ? I have an intercom problem that nobody seems to be able to solve. When receiving transmissions my intercom locks out and I am unable to talk to my P2 - not a problem unless you operate in busy airspace or from a large airport like I do. - the wiring has been checked and it seems to be OK to manufactures spec also its not the side tones of the new King radio as I can hear myself talk. It may be that the unit itself is faulty but before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking - anyone with similar experience or ideas please. ? > > Michael Dawson. G-PEGY. > > That sounds like an intentional feature, as the box has no way of > knowing whether any ATC transmission is for you. If you spoke to P2 > at the same time as ATC, hearing sidetone, you could miss an ATC call > for you. Can P2 hear ATC too? If so, then, you're talking > simultaneously to P2 would be a problem anyway. IOW, design > philosophies here vary. As a pilot, I as pax prefer to hear ATC, and > can shut up when I hear a call for P1. Nonpilots may not want the > chatter, and won't shut up if they don't instantly react to the magic > callsign as we do. Then you gotta gently whack 'em? :-) > > Best, > Fred F. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Mansfeld" <ian_mansfeld(at)lineone.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Hopefully this replies to the group! As regards groundplanes, I have not tried alternatives, but the groundplane does not have to be flat. Locally ining the inside of the fuselage with heavy duty tinfoil should work provided it is well connected to the antenna connector outer (i.e. be careful not to let sealants or other non-conductive pastes spoil the connection, or corrosion for that matter). Antenna for pressurised aircraft are often sold with special conductive gaskets to achieve this. You can share one GPS antenna between two recievers provided you use a proper RF splitter/divider and dc-block. The antenna has a pre-amplifier inside it, and this must be powered by one receiver. The other reciever must be connected to the splitter output using a dc block.This stops the 5 volts (or whatever it produces) connecting to the other receiver. Try a web search for the company 'Narda' who make such things. (They are very small, and usually have those tiny little SMA type connectors). You need one that works at around 1.2GHz, the civilian GPS frequency. Trimble used to make one with built in dc-blocks on all but the primary connection. Don't worry if you can only find ones with 3 or 4 outputs, as the unused outputs cause minimal loss and do not have to be terminated (but you could put 50 Ohm terminations on unused outputs if you want to prevent crud getting into the connectors). As regards antennae spacing, the general rule is to have them no closer than half a wavelength. I can't recall how to convert frequency (1.2E+9) into wavelength, but it involves the constant 'c', the speed of light. From memory it is only a few inches for GPS. However, this only applies to passive aerials. If the aerial has a built in pre-amplifier (and most have), then this can actually radiate noise that can be picked up by another aerial, so spoiling it's performance. With these aerials, about 18 inches (0.5m) of separation should be considered a minimum. I'm not saying that any other separation will not work, but really you owe it to yourself and your aeroplane to get the best performance that you can. Ian. G BVVP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)easilink.com> Subject: I have several questions on GPS antennas for panel mount. 1. The Garmin instructions refer to a 15" radius ground plane. How is this being done in Europa and is it necessary? 2. I have seen some indications of splitting and sharing antenna with two nav radios. Can this be done with comm radios and can the GPS antenna be shared with tow GPS/ 3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems. Hope you avionics people out ther can hel. I am a new builder ( since Dec.) but have been watching this forum since 1997 and feel almost like family. Many thanks to all who contribute. This is the first time I have not been able to find an answer in the archives. I doubt i could build this aircraft successfully with out the forum. Curtis Jaussi Kit 216 N4270G jaussi(at)easilink.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Anderson" <Randerson(at)skewstacks.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Frank, I entirely agree with you, but the solution is to go to http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/list/ where there is an easy to follow step by step series of instructions to change your default settings back to the old way of operating. You will have to find out your password at Europa Club Forums, but the procedure for that is also dealt with at this excellent site. I found it was well worth the effort. Kind regards, Roger Anderson. G-BXTD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Mycroft" <frankm(at)clara.net> Subject: Re: forum settings > Dear Rowland > > Yes, I know this will go to the forum, possibly along with 449 others, but > because most of us haven't mentioned our preferences before you can't assume > we are 'a few'! Only a very few of the subscribers to the forum are on my > personal address book, and most of the people one might wish to reply to > never will be. I find it much easier to remember how to send a message to > the forum (a single address, which is in my address book), than to any one > of 450 subscribers, for whom , to me, the easy answer is to click the > 'Reply to' button, when we can read the mail we are replying to as we write. > I don't care what other forums (?fora?) do, lets do what most of us think is > best. > > Cheers > > Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Atkinson" <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Just to complicate matters even more, hedges have an annoying habit of growing. Round my way the council cut theirs in the autumn. Thus a nominal 6ft hedge could be 10ft high by October. As for TORA I agree that it is a more important consideration than TODA. Most field boundaries are marked by some kind of obstacle and one should plan to clear it by a safe margin.How big the margin is is down to the individual. I would suggest that standard 50ft is a bit excessive for our purposes particularly if a safety factor is added to it for calculating runway length Paul Atkinson paul.atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com > I agree with the comments so far on this subject. Be aware that as there > are several factors, all of which can affect take-off run and some of which > can affect landing run. When some of these are added together in certain > conditions it is possible to end up with with distances which are double > the standard numbers. The CAA provide an excellent booklet giving > recommended factors for this. Although they only give an approximate idea > it provides a way of predicting whether the length available is sufficient. > Remember that the take-off distance available to 50ft (TODA) can be more > relevent than the take-off run available (TORA) if there are any trees or > even hedges at the end of the runway. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
Which "main supply" are you referring to as needing 50A? Feed to the bus, or from alternator to that fuse? The manual's diagram shows 30A slow-blow from the alt, then 25A whatever to the bus, logically smaller. #### Thanks for the information. I am installing a second alternator, which will give me 2 independent electrical systems. I am planning on modifying the cowl to allow the use of a 40-amp alternator. That is where the 50-amp fuse comes in. My system is way more complicated than it needs to be, but will provide backup options, especially in the area of the 2 electrical fuel pumps. Cheers, Dave Anderson A227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: plane Torque Tube Drive Enhancement.
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Hi! All. I have today received approval for Modification No. 10623. It has on the documents been stated for G-PTAG only. However I will be contacting the PFA to establish suitability for further aircraft on an optional basis and will report soonest. The "Enhancement" is pictured on the http://www.crix.org.uk web site under my listings, courtesy John Cliff. regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Hi! Karim /All IMHO you have the incorrect info. probably a misunderstanding . With a direct drive low RPM engine of say 120 hp you will not get the maximum torque you could get from a 120 hp high rpm engine geared down to the same prop speed. The 80% gear box loss may be a relevant factor but the torque at the prop. on the geared engine could well be superior even so, not withstanding any extra ordinary capability of the diesel! Power , torque , and RPMs are all inter -related( HP = 2#NT/33,000 where # is 3.142,N is RPM and T is torque in ft lbs.) For instance the 4 cylinder 1600cc Rotax at 5,500 RPM with a gearbox takes a 6 cylinder 3,000cc Jabiru at 2900 RPM direct drive to be in the same "ball park" The differentiation amounts to whether you feel happier with a high revving engine stressed to high limits carrying a gearbox permantently or a sweet sounding direct drive plodder without the borderline stresses. If anyone wishes to "pick spots " off these statements I'd be pleased to have their pleasure, but do it on the Forum so we can all benefit . BTW the Chief Engineer at the PFA is called Francis Donaldson. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Re: Runway length ......... the wilksch is a direct drive engine unlike the rotax that is geared. That means out of the quoted 120hp that the engine is rated at, you will only get approximately 80% of the total power since there a loss through the drive train etc. Talk to Donald Francis, chief PFA engineer and he will explain all to you. Talked to him in detail about this. karim. # 420 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Re: Low pressure fuel switch
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Ron, OEM Automatic have branches all over Scandinavia but in England they are at Whiteacres,Cambridge Rd.,Whetstone, Leicester,LE8 6ZG Tel 0116 2849900 I found them extremely helpful, and they will send you a catologue if you give them a ring. What you are probably looking for is the SUCO low pressure diaphragm switch,of which there are sveral versions with different pressure ranges, different diaphagm material for different solvents and normally closed or open versions, all at very modest price. David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Jones <jronjones(at)lineone.net> Subject: Re: Low pressure fuel switch > Thanks for the info, Duncan. > > David, where do I find OEM Automatic? > > Ron Jones. > (No. 359. G-RJWX) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Farnell components (www.farnell.com) sell large format automotive style fuses and holders. I am using 30A versions on my aircraft. Tony ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
Subject: Re: forum settings
Date: Mar 13, 2002
agree - most of us can sort out the wheat from the chaff, and it was - for me - difficult to remember how to get a reply to all the forum members - this way it goes out to all automatically, and our seed goes to fertile ground rather than a stony single site. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Mycroft <frankm(at)clara.net> Subject: Re: forum settings > Dear Rowland > > Yes, I know this will go to the forum, possibly along with 449 others, but > because most of us haven't mentioned our preferences before you can't assume > we are 'a few'! Only a very few of the subscribers to the forum are on my > personal address book, and most of the people one might wish to reply to > never will be. I find it much easier to remember how to send a message to > the forum (a single address, which is in my address book), than to any one > of 450 subscribers, for whom , to me, the easy answer is to click the > 'Reply to' button, when we can read the mail we are replying to as we write. > I don't care what other forums (?fora?) do, lets do what most of us think is > best. > > Cheers > > Frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Europa Club Membership Secretary" <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> > Subject: forum settings > > > > I've let John Cliff handle most of the recent comments about how the > > list is configured, and I hope I'm not treading on his toes by > > mentioning the following points. > > > > The Europa Forum is intended for messages likely to be of general > > interest to _all_ Europa people. It has never purported to be a > > substitute for the maintenance of a personal e-mail address book of > > one's regular correspondents. > > > > It is configured in the same way as pretty much all the other e-mail > > lists around - that is, the default is to reply to the list. On none > > of the many discussion-style e-mail lists that I subscribe to (about > > 7 at present I think - I usually read {except for the spam} and deal > > with about 100 e-mail messages per day) have I seen any requests by > > users for a "reply-to-sender" default. > > > > When the Europa list was first set up, it conformed to the standard > > model, and I cannot recall a single complaint about it in the early > > years. It's very unfortunate that because of the limitations of > > out-of-date server software at Aviators Network, the list was then > > re-configured in a non-standard way, leading to the formation of > > inappropriate habits by users over some years. > > > > I'm sorry that for a few of the 450-odd subscribers to the list, the > > recent changes have been uncomfortable, and we hope that things will > > seem less awkward as familiarity grows. For those who are using an > > e-mail system provided by their employer and have little control over > > its configuration, perhaps you should consider moving recreational > > activities to a home computer where you can choose what to install. > > It's hard to envisage exactly how any modification will be received > > by all those affected, but we believe we have (in time stolen from > > Europa-building) set things up to give the greatest benefit to the > > majority, while minimising future maintenance requirements. (Of > > course if there are 450 replies to this post all disagreeing, it > > might be necessary to reconsider!) > > > > We also remember that perhaps one day eager volunteers will arise, > > offering to take over the administrative tasks we currently perform > > for the Club, and we are trying to leave the shop as clean and tidy > > as possible for those new incumbents. > > > > As for a separate list for fliers only, I hope that does not happen, > > personally wish to know about all aspects of the Europa experience. > > If people get into the habit of prefixing their flying-topic message > > subject lines with "flying" then anyone who wants to see only those > > posts can arrange a filter (or message handler) to bin all the rest - > > and those who are not interested in flying (what!) can do the > > reverse. Of course, some messages impinge on both building and > > flying, so I cannot be sure what to recommend in that case as one or > > other of the filters mentioned above would not work as desired .... > > but certainly choosing informative subject lines is a great help to > > all users. > > > > regards > > > > Rowland > > > > | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary > > | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 > > | e-mail website > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
Subject: Re: What's Her Name
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Mine is worthy of the name 'the sow's ear' I don't think it can be made into a silk purse. ----- Original Message ----- From: <TroyMaynor(at)aol.com> Subject: What's Her Name > Hi All, > > Please forgive me but I can't help myself. The other day on the forum I > mentioned in passing that I should think of a name for my Europa. Today while > sanding the fuselage for the ump-teenth time I may have settled on a name. It > is shared by my first girl friend in high school..........Ol' y. }: > ) > > Best Regards > Troy (maybe breathing too much acetone) Maynor > > troymaynor(at)aol.com > N120EU ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: length
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Wavelength (metres) = 300/frequency(Megahertz) within a tiny percentage Ferg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: length 2
Date: Mar 13, 2002
"3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems." If one is inactive, 1/2 wavelength (on GPS) more than an inch or two. Cheers, Ferg P.S: A groundplane should be 4-5% larger (in radius) than 1/4 wavelength, depending on material and conductivity. The best match for 50ohms (radio parameter) is a cone at 45deg to the vertical 1/4 wave antenna pole - but it's not as critical as having the antenna in the clear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re:
If you search on GPS antenna splitter, sans Narda, you can turn up a bunch of stuff. What I found were choices between passive devices with unacceptable 4-8db insertion loss, or amplified units at startling prices. There's even a curious homebrew at pacifsites.com/~brooke/4GPS.shtml with diodes for DC blocking, and atrocious screw-on Radio Shack BNC connectors. I wouldn't use that in an airplane on a $3,000 GPS, though. Best, Fred F. Ian Mansfeld wrote: > > Try a web search > for the company 'Narda' who make such things. (They are very small, and > usually have those tiny little SMA type connectors). You need one that works > at around 1.2GHz, the civilian GPS frequency. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: slow blow fuse
Carl Pattinson wrote: > > Most contact breakers are effectively slow blow fuses due to the way that > they work. > > Anything other than a contact breaker would be a liability as the main fuse > in an aircraft electrical system (ie if there were a surge you would loose > all your electrics and changing fuses in flight is not an option - asuming > you have a spare !) All valid observations, but to toss in a technicality. Even a typical fast-acting fuse can take 200% of rated current for .5 second. So, talkin' the fuse that feeds the bus, say 25A, there's nothing in the plane that should be able to cause 50A of surge, I would think. The only eligible items are the sum of all avionics. The little 50-100uf filter caps that's typically in the front end of these things just won't do that. The only thing I can think of that will kill the fuse on the alternator output is dumping into a defective battery. Setting aside whether we want to fly with that battery, there's where the circuit breaker looks preferable. A 30A P&B W31 breaker will take 60 amps for 10+ seconds. Presuming the Rotax alternator can supply that at a much lower voltage, it will allow time to bring up the voltage on (and reduce the current to) a badly discharged battery (jump-started). A 30A slow-blo could pop much quicker. Best, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: erichdtrombley(at)juno.com
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
Gary, do you know the part number. I have looked on Summit's web page and can only find a silver fire sleeve that is 5/15 I.D. not big enough for the oil lines unfortunately. Thanks Erich Trombley ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Runway length
Date: Mar 14, 2002
Dear Nigel. Thank you for letting us know about your findings. I think you should make your spreadsheet available to club members. It's vital to observe and be able to calculate all the variables which affect takeoff and landing performance - especially on a limiting runway. Cheers, Hans. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Runway length > Message text written by "Paul Atkinson" > >I am just wondering what you 914 powered flyers consider to be an adequate > minimum runway length. The figure I have generally been quoted is 450 > meters > or 1500ft. I get the impression that this is a generic figure that will do > for any Europa regardless of powerplant. > Having read several accounts of 914 powered Europas with VP props leaping > into the air like homesick angels, I wonder if any of you are happy > operating from shorter strips, and how much benefit there is from the extra > power and VP prop over say a 912 with fixed pitch. For comparison mine is a > monowheel classic which will have a Wilksch WAM120 and an MT prop, and I > will be operating from elevations of 500' or less, most of the time. > Any comments gratefully received.< > > I agree with the comments so far on this subject. Be aware that as there > are several factors, all of which can affect take-off run and some of which > can affect landing run. When some of these are added together in certain > conditions it is possible to end up with with distances which are double > the standard numbers. The CAA provide an excellent booklet giving > recommended factors for this. Although they only give an approximate idea > it provides a way of predicting whether the length available is sufficient. > Remember that the take-off distance available to 50ft (TODA) can be more > relevent than the take-off run available (TORA) if there are any trees or > even hedges at the end of the runway. > > The factors and their affect on take-off and landing run and distances > required (TORR/TODR & LRR/LDR) as published by the CAA are as follows: > > Factor TORR/TODR Correction LRR/LDR Correction > Weight 2% per % 1% per % > Temperature 1% per deg C 0.5% per % > Pressure Alt 1% per 100ft 5% per 1,000ft > Headwind 7% per 5kt 7% per 5kt > Tailwind 20% per 5kt 20% per 5kt > Up Slope 5% per % 2.5% per % > Down Slope 2.5% per % 5% per % > Dry Grass Add 20% to hard rwy figures Not > published > Wet Grass Add 30% to hard rwy figures Not > published > Soft Ground Add 25% to hard rwy figures Not published > > > To apply these factors the performance for an individual aircraft needs to > be measured for a known set of conditions (ideally fairly standard > conditions ie. typical average weight, 15 degC, typical airfield pressure > alt, zero wind or small head component, level hard runway). When > subsequently calculating the performance on the day remember to apply the > corrections in the correct sense. To avoid a lot of work with a calculator > I have produced a spreadsheet which will apply the corrections. This sheet > also does the weight and balance calculations having inserted fuel load (in > volume), pilot & pax weights and baggage weight. If anyone is interested I > could look at making it available. Naturally it would be free to Europa > Club members but a small donation to the club funds would be appreciated > from non-members. > > Finally when it comes to the actual take-off in limiting conditions the > following two checks during the take-off run will help assess the stop-go > decision as applied to Europas: > > 1. 25kts by 25% TORA > 2. 35kts by 50% TORA > > If these are not acheived the take-off must be aborted. Of course to > measure this markers need to be placed or the positions otherwise defined > along the runway. > > Whilst most of us rarely operate close to the performance limits regularly > it is nice to know how much margin you have in hand. For instance if a > Europa needs 200m take-off run in standard conditions at MAUW, it will need > 400m with the following conditions (Temp +30degC, Press Alt 3,000ft, 4kt > tailwind, 2% up slope, soft grass). If there is a hedge at the end of the > runway the standard TODR might be 300m so to clear the hedge in the above > conditions you would need 600m. That is without a safety factor of 33% > which the CAA recommends so the margins can become reduced quite > significantly. > > Food for thought? > > > Nigel Charles > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl>
Subject: ell
> Farnell components (www.farnell.com) sell large format automotive style fuses > and holders. I am using 30A versions on my aircraft. >Farnell in the Netherlands does not like to sell to individuals and makes it as difficult as possible (and "as a special favour"): written order, a EURO 50 excl. of VAT minimum, payment in advance, promise to be at home when the mailman comes, etc. Also, there is no way they will let me have a catalogue. So I still get my electronics components from the consumer paradise across the Atlantic. Better mileage in other countries? Jan de Jong #461 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: getting wings on
>Dear Ted >If the bearing is able to rotate more than 5 degrees in any direction then >it must not be pushed fully in to the housing. The design of the housing >should limit rotation to allow enough movement due to dihedral plus a >small clearance only. > >regards > >Andy Draper >Europa Aircraft Andy, Digging around in a foggy corner of my mind, I seem to remember that the bearing is not symmetrical in the back to front sense so it's possible to install the bearing wrong way round? Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Subject: Re: getting wings on
My experience with the swivel bearing has been that when pushed fully into the housing and only able to swivel 5 degrees it was much harder to get the wing on. I was told the bearing needed to swivel freely. I recently replaced one bearing because it would not freely swivel. That wing(port) now goes in eventually with sufficient patience and time. The swivel on the starboard side rotates freely and Much Effort has not gotten that wing on lately. I have had the wings on about six times without the flaps installed and about six times with the flaps installed. Each of the times with the flaps installed has been a long tedious operation requiring much jiggling of the flap pin. Thank God the glider wings do not have a flap!! The idea of a cone shaped extension on the flap pin sounds like it would be helpful. Ken Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com> Subject: Re: getting wings on > Dear Ken, > > Check that the bearings are pushed fully into their housings, otherwise the bearing inner will rotate too much and cause difficulty rigging. The bearings should swivel only about 5 degrees. > > Kind regards > > Andy Draper > Technical Director > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Augustene Brown <augustene(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Curtis; I have the Apollo GX65 GPS installed in our aircraft. I installed the GPS antenna just as it came out of the box onto a fiberglass flange bonded behind the baggage compartment. There have been no problems with acquiring signals. Jim Brown Fred Fillinger wrote: > Curtis Jaussi wrote: > > > > I have several questions on GPS antennas for panel mount. > > 1. The Garmin instructions refer to a 15" radius ground plane. How is this being done in > > Europa and is it necessary? > > > > UPS-AT says 18" ground plane. It's weird, in that it's counter to the > general rule for ground plane = 1/4 wavelength (less than pinky finger > for GPS). A handheld GPS can't fake a ground plane that big, and my > UPS-AT panel map-comm works fine inside the house w/o such. It may > not be so much performance as mitigating effects of interference > re-radiating from your comm or ELT antenna, in presence of strong > fields, or your comm's xmit. Even there, VHF comm transmissions > (except for ATIS) are short and thus no big deal. > > It can be made with alum foil, but I hate to keep adding weight, not > just foil, but the darn glue. If desired, a 15", 4-wire radial and > duct tape ground plane can be tried later, if there's a problem. > Unlike a metal airplane, all we're doing is adding more radiating > elements inside a small plastic plane so as to mess something else > up. > > > 2. I have seen some indications of splitting and sharing antenna with two nav radios. Can this be done with comm radios and can the GPS antenna be shared with tow GPS/ > > I don't think you'll ever see a GPS splitter. The signals are too > weak to suffer the mutual loss of signal. Also, the center wire feeds > DC to the antenna, so we can't design a splitter that interconnects > that DC also, and wait to see who calls back about why their $3,000 > GPS box mysteriously conked. Circuitry to prevent that causes further > losses. > > There are splitters for comm, but they have to prevent xmit power from > feeding back to the other comm. A relay design does this, but one > catalog I have wants you to pay $409 for the privilege of a huge 3db > loss. > > > 3. If two GPS antennas are needed how close can may they be to each other without interference problems. > > UPS-AT is also silent on this, but theoretically a few inches is > enough, as they don't xmit. More than that would seem to not pose a > layout prob on the fuselage top - later rectification method being > unappealing? > > Best, > Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2002
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re:
Augustene Brown wrote: > > Curtis; > > I have the Apollo GX65 GPS installed in our aircraft. I installed the GPS antenna just > as it came out of the box onto a fiberglass flange bonded behind the baggage > compartment. There have been no problems with acquiring signals. > > Jim Brown I found reason why it's OK. A very techy paper on mitre.org says the problem is multipath interference. In airborne GPS, means rec'd signal bouncing off the structures of metal aircraft, like tail, wings, etc. Near the ground, off of wet areas and buildings - a big factor for approach-certified GPS. Hence the fussiness in the install manuals. Best, Fred F. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
Date: Mar 13, 2002
Here are the part numbers guys, 1/2 inch ID * 3 feet. Part # THE-14005 (not much use) $13.95 1 inch ID * 3 feet. Part # THE-14010 (good for oil lines) $15.95 1 1/2 inch ID * 3 feet. Part # THE-14015 (good for coolant lines) $19.95 On a Europa you should sheath ALL the lower coolant lines as the exhaust or turbocharger will fry them otherwise. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- Behalf Of erichdtrombley(at)juno.com Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines Gary, do you know the part number. I have looked on Summit's web page and can only find a silver fire sleeve that is 5/15 I.D. not big enough for the oil lines unfortunately. Thanks Erich Trombley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Tailplane Torque Tube Drive Enhancement.
Date: Mar 14, 2002
Hi! All . Further to the message below it would be better of me to explain the location of the pictures at the web site. Go to "Modifications" in "Modifications Gallery" choose "Stabilators" Give it ample time to download since there is pictures as well as narative. Regards Bob Harrison -----Original Message----- From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk Subject: Tailplane Torque Tube Drive Enhancement. Hi! All. I have today received approval for Modification No. 10623. It has on the documents been stated for G-PTAG only. However I will be contacting the PFA to establish suitability for further aircraft on an optional basis and will report soonest. The "Enhancement" is pictured on the http://www.crix.org.uk web site under my listings, courtesy John Cliff. regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: Farnell
Date: Mar 14, 2002
> > Farnell components (www.farnell.com) sell large format automotive style fuses > > and holders. I am using 30A versions on my aircraft. > > Farnell in the Netherlands does not like to sell to individuals and makes it as > difficult as possible (and "as a special favour"): written order, a EURO 50 excl. > of VAT minimum, payment in advance, promise to be at home when the mailman comes, > etc. Also, there is no way they will let me have a catalogue. > So I still get my electronics components from the consumer paradise across the > Atlantic. > > Better mileage in other countries? > > Jan de Jong > #461 You could always order from Farnell in the UK. I've never had problems buying from them. Cheers, Mark. ________________________________ Mark Jackson - 07050 645590 europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Kenneth Whiteley <kenwhit(at)kenwhit.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Farnell
<001201c1ca3b$ac117130$6601a8c0@CLIFFORD> <1016049580.3c8fafac6ae04(at)proton.kaon.co.nz> <3C8FEC23.B35EDA56(at)xs4all.nl> In message <3C8FEC23.B35EDA56(at)xs4all.nl>, Jan de Jong writes In the UK Farnell require a minimum order of GBP30, payable by credit card. Their on-line catalogue is more difficult to use than that of RS, but sometimes they are the only stockists. If you know the manufacturer's part number, then it is straightforward, but with a minimum order. Kenneth Whiteley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2002
Subject: ing through the firewall
Hi, I am starting to run wiring now and wondered if there is a preferred way to pass wiring through the firewall? I know what is done with metal airplanes, but not with composite airplanes. Thanks, Dave Anderson A227 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: getting wings on
Hi Graham, The GE12E bearing is symmetrical so it can go in either way. The outer race should be flush with the housing when fully inserted. Regards Andy >>> Graham Singleton 03/13/02 10:35am >>> >Dear Ted >If the bearing is able to rotate more than 5 degrees in any direction then >it must not be pushed fully in to the housing. The design of the housing >should limit rotation to allow enough movement due to dihedral plus a >small clearance only. > >regards > >Andy Draper >Europa Aircraft Andy, Digging around in a foggy corner of my mind, I seem to remember that the bearing is not symmetrical in the back to front sense so it's possible to install the bearing wrong way round? Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net>
Subject: ery picture
Folks - while doing some housekeeping I've come across a picture I can't identify. I suspect it's a Europa-related fitting of some sort that someone has kindly sent me, but I can't figure out what it is or who sent it to me. It appears to have arrived during December 2001 as an e-mail attachment, and the filename is tf1.jpg. I don't think it came via the Europa e-mail list - although there was discussion around that time on gascolator fittings (inter alia), I can't relate it to any of the recorded postings. It shows 3 apparently identical metal fittings nicely photographed on a white background, oriented to display different aspects. A roughly cubical block with some edges chamfered has tapped holes of slightly different sizes on 2 adjacent faces. On a 3rd face is a cylindrical part extending away somewhat more than the dimension of the block itself, with the outside diameter reduced from about half-way along, and a hollow plain bore, larger than the threaded holes. No indication of scale, but the threads make me think it's probably quite small. Anyone recognise this? No need to bother everyone on the forum if I'm the only only bozo who doesn't know what it is - just e-mail direct to me at the address below. regards Rowland | PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623 | Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net>
Subject: ian translation sought
As Europa Club membership secretary I've received a document in Italian that I'd like to get translated so I can respond appropriately. Does anyone have enough Italian to help, please? It's less than 300 words so is not too big a job. No need to respond on the list - direct to the e-mail address below is best. regards Rowland | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary | Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386 | e-mail website ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: ing through the firewall
Message text written by INTERNET:DJA727(at)aol.com >I am starting to run wiring now and wondered if there is a preferred way to pass wiring through the firewall? I know what is done with metal airplanes, but not with composite airplanes. < I used a total of 5 multipin connector plug and sockets supplied by Digikey. The grouping was as follows: 3 pin high power - +12v panel, +12v standby power for essential services, panel ground 3 pin medium power - VP prop connections Multi pin low power - Engine sender connections Multi pin low power - Airframe engine compartment connections Multi pin low power - Thermocouple connections The standby power provides redundancy should the main panel fuse blow. The airframe and engine connections are split to ease engine removal. The engine socket can be unscrewed from the firewall during engine removal so that the engine loom can can stay on the engine. The thermocouple connections are kept seperate with the plug/socket join aft of the firewall so that the cold junction is away from the hot air in the engine compartment improving accuracy. The small access hole in the firewall is covered by an overlapping stainless sheet panel with a grommet in it for the cables. The first 4 connectors are grouped on the port sideof the firewall so that they can be accessed through the aperture of the removable subpanel. Perhaps this will give you a few ideas for your own panel. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2002
From: Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Runway length
Message text written by Hans Jrgen Danielsen >Thank you for letting us know about your findings. I think you should make your spreadsheet available to club members. It's vital to observe and be able to calculate all the variables which affect takeoff and landing performance - especially on a limiting runway. < Thank you for your appreciative comments. As I indicated in my e-mail I can send out copies as required. It is in 'Psion' sheet format at the moment but I will convert it to Excel shortly. To make it practical to use some form of mobile computing is essential. The main choices are: Psion - compact, reasonable readability in bright sunlight, very low power consumption, good landscape screen layout Palm - compact, some are poor in bright sunlight, low power consumption, small limiting portrait screen layout Laptop - bulky, virtually unreadable in bright sunlight, significant power consumption, vast screen layout I will also write setup and user instructions. Hopefully this should be available in about a week. There are two spreadsheets, one for weight & balance/take-off the other for landing. As mentioned in the past I have also produced an electronic navlog which provides a crosscheck for the GPS. Unlike the Flight Manager and Navbox programs it gives a fuel check at each waypoint (useful if a long trip is planned). I won't clutter the forum with details of it now but will supply more info if there is significant interest. Nigel Charles ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>


March 05, 2002 - March 14, 2002

Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ci