Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cs
October 11, 2002 - October 27, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Permit To Test |
Hi! Carl.
Exasperating isn't it!
I ultimately had to ask Francis Donaldson "who was waiting for who"! then
finished up taking the a/c on trailer to Shorham having fixed up for them to
inspect it at the Northbook College facilities.
But at least it got things moving. Being at the end of the season I wouldn't
have thought you would have such a delay as in April ?
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Permit To Test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Permit To Test |
>Anyone have any idea how long the PFA normally takes to issue a Permit to
>Test once the paperwork has been submitted.
You'll have to wait for Francis to return from a well earned holiday. I
think he is just back, actually
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
> We are in the process of finishing our Europa with the Poly Fiber System.
>
> We also had problems with the Top Gloss sticking to the primer on our test
> pieces but found that we were producing too smooth a surface on the primer.
> We had to roughen it up with 180 grade sandpaper. Found it impossible
> to peel it off after that - - but - - we have not flown it yet !!
180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
"Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion, care
must be taken to avoid deep and sharp profiles. These types of
profiles allow the formation of non-uniform films, which act as stress
points that tend to reduce the coating durability by weakening the
adhesion. As long as the films are somewhat fluid, the shrinkage,
uneven depths, and three-dimensional changes introduce little
unrelieved stress. As viscosity and film stiffness increase and as
film adhesion to the substrate develops, substantial stress are
accumulated and retained in the dry film."
Elsewhere they state that merely a "weathered" paint surface - no more
gloss - is sufficient for tooth adhesion. Also, where the above cites
viscosity, note that polyurethanes tend to be the least viscous, IOW
stiff and hard.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top Gloss Finish |
> Agreed Ken,
> I suspect that the PPG will be easy to touch up if dinged whereas the Imron
> may be very difficult. Much cheaper too.
> Graham
>
Which PPG paint though? They make all the usual automotive stuff,
lacquer through polys. Imron is said to be a "soft" poly, but in my
experience re spot repair, it still falls into the category of forget
it!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | s email address... bugbear (sorry) |
Just to let folks know that the erichgabbe(at)zutrasoft.com email address is
not valid and likely generated by Erich Gabbe's computer which may be
infected.
My email @zutrasoft.com server/client is not infected.
Apologies for the bandwidth waste, but I thought I'd save some folks from
trying to reply to bogus addresses.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnh(at)ddsc.demon.co.uk> |
Visited Schofield Trailers in Swindon to have my trailer modified for
Trigear occasional transit.
David has a Mono-wheel Trailer in progress of being made with No
Purchaser at this time.
If anyone is at the stage of 'thinking' Trailers it may be worth giving
him a call, especially as he is able to 'fit out' to Customer personal
requirements.
My Multi-purpose trailer has given excellent service , being well
constructed and a pleasure to tow.
David Schofield:
Tel No: 01793 790160 or Mobile 07973 838695
Regards
Gerry Holland
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
Tel No: +44 7808 402404
________________________________________________________________________________
<001601c27001$0dbbe0d0$39bb2f44@cw3164952a>
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Top Gloss Finish |
>I used Superfil and Top Gloss on my Europa. I was scared of the more toxic
>Imron and such. I used a HVLP gun and thinned it about 10%. I never did
>get a balance between run-downs and orange peel
It's my understanding that the PolyFiber stuff does not like to be
shot from the modern HVLP gun and prefers the old-fashioned wasteful
type. I think it was the PolyFiber reps in UK that told me so. I am
intending (one day in the almost unforeseeable future) to use the
PolyFiber process, so I will probably do some comparison tests
between my HVLP gun and an el-cheapo regular type before I start on
the aircraft pieces.
>If I had it to do over
>again, I would have the plane professionally painted
Many of us think we might do things differently next time around, but
some of us are real slow learners ....
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top Gloss Finish |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>
> It's my understanding that the PolyFiber stuff does not like to be
> shot from the modern HVLP gun and prefers the old-fashioned wasteful
> type.
I originally used a nice and expensive HVLP gun but found that the paint would
orange peel easily. I sold the HVLP, went down to the local hardware store and
bought a cheap (USD125) locally manufactured home spray kit. This lays the top
gloss down quite nicely.
A good sanding is _essential_ before applying top gloss. I used a good quality
240 grit for the job. If you don't sand the underlying smooth prime well (as
on my stabilators where I only used 600 grit) then the top gloss will simply
peel off in sheets. The second time round I sanded back with 240 grit and the
top gloss bonded hard.
Follow the sanding with Prep Wipe and a well aired tack cloth. My first coat
is a mist coat only and is left for 20 minutes. This is followed by three full
coats at 20 minute intervals.
I found that leaving the coats to fully dry before applying the next coat
introduces the opportunity to cut through the coats later on when sanding the
surface back. If you do this then you end up with a tide mark between layers.
If you get it right then the paint will flow when drying into a semi gloss
finish.
Once it has dried for a week I grab a palm sander and sand the entire surface
with 1200 followed by 1500 grit flushed with plenty of water.
Then its out with the polisher, starting with a rough cut, and working down to
a fine cut.
Once you have done all of that you can stand back and look at the shine. You
don't get a hard glider shine but from 10 feet it still looks pretty good.
Anyone who looks closer than that shouldn't have been standing on the runway.
If you do get a tear in the surface, which can sometimes occur at a hard edge,
then peel back the tear until it stops. Sand back the edges of the tear and
the underlying surface. If its a small tear then just dab on some more paint
with a paintbrush or if it's larger then respray. Leave for a week then sand
it back.
One thing I really like about top gloss is the ability to retouch and blend in
very easily. What I don't like about it is the amount of sanding and polishing
you have to do to achieve the shine.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
>
> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
his paints).
The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase in
surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be no
benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional surface
area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in Smooth
Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the presence
of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult to
get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
impossible with the correct technique.
Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler minerals
in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is holding
on okay so far.
Duncan McF.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Permit To Test |
Two days in my case. And with a long list of "departures from standard". And in
early June!
Duncan McF.
On Friday, October 11, 2002 9:34 AM, Carl Pattinson [SMTP:carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk]
wrote:
>
> Anyone have any idea how long the PFA normally takes to issue a Permit to
> Test once the paperwork has been submitted.
>
> Just wondering if we will get the test flying in before Xmas (weather
> permitting !!!)
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Anderson" <Randerson(at)skewstacks.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Pressure Sender - again |
Following the recent replacement of my oil pressure sender and the posting by Frank
Mycroft I decided to have a look inside my failed sender. In my case the
failure was due to the wire leading to the external terminal breaking off at its
connection to the resistance wire terminal post. It was a simple matter to
replace this wire using a slightly more substantial flex. Using a compressor I
have checked that the sender resistance increases with pressure as expected,
and since I haven't interfered with the mechanism, I am reasonably confident that
I have restored the sender to full working order. Anybody suffering an oil
pressure sender failure may save themselves the cost of a new one (circa. 100.00p)
by investigating the cause of the failure.
Incidentally I have today ordered a flexible hose to facilitate the remote mounting
of the sensor as per Duncan McFadean's aircraft, in the hope of eliminating
the vibration which apparently causes these failures.
Roger Anderson G-BXTD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Top Gloss Finish |
I used poly-fil smooth prime and sanded it down to 320 grit only as
advised by Air
New Zealand paint-composite shop before they applied the top coat of
Resin Du Pont
700 polyurethane binder two part paint. Excellent finish and no paint
flaking off yet.
Cheers,
Tim
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 03 3515166
email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa flyout |
Folks,
a frienf wants to know hen the europa flyout to RAF ??? is gonna
take place. I have tried looking through the archive to see the messages that
were sent some weeks back but drawing a blank. There was something about
visiting RAF ??? and a little tour in a chinook helicopter( not sure). Anyone
remember this?
regards.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
McFadyean wrote:
> The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase in
> surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be no
> benefit in a coarser roughening ....
The article I cited actually goes into extreme depth, and mechanical
adhesion is affected by many factors that I, at least, never heard of,
one of which is surface tension. And even solids have surface
tension. It's true that sanding increases surface area, which
increases the force necessary to delaminate. More important they say
is that abrasion breaks the surface tension, and the degree of
abrasion (if needed at all) need only reduce it below its "critical"
surface tension, which is also relative to the surface tension of the
paint being applied. It all has to do with the paint's ability to
"wet" the surface.
Or so they try to explain, with lots of really big words!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
In a message dated 10/11/2002 8:29:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fillinger(at)ameritech.net writes:
> The article I cited actually goes into extreme depth, and mechanical
> adhesion is affected by many factors that I, at least, never heard of,
> one of which is surface tension. And even solids have surface
> tension. It's true that sanding increases surface area, which
> increases the force necessary to delaminate. More important they say
> is that abrasion breaks the surface tension, and the degree of
> abrasion (if needed at all) need only reduce it below its "critical"
> surface tension, which is also relative to the surface tension of the
> paint being applied. It all has to do with the paint's ability to
> "wet" the surface.
>
> Or so they try to explain, with lots of really big words!
The amazing thing to me about all of this, as I press ahead with the smooth
prime...... If I spill it, I can never get it off! It is only when you don't
want it to come off that it will do so.
I now plan to fly the airplane with 100% primer and deal with the finish coat
later -- probably doing some test painting during the initial flight tests.
This is getting way too complicated!
Dave
A227
mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
One other thought to add to this thread...
I understand that PolyFiber are currently working on a new formulation for a
water-based paint system to replace Top Gloss, and plan to launch it in
about a year.
Whether this is just normal product development, or a response to problems
experienced by users of the current system, I don't know. Certainly Jim
Brown's experiences do not appear to be atypical.
Regards,
Jeremy
XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss
In a message dated 10/11/2002 8:29:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fillinger(at)ameritech.net writes:
> The article I cited actually goes into extreme depth, and mechanical
> adhesion is affected by many factors that I, at least, never heard of,
> one of which is surface tension. And even solids have surface
> tension. It's true that sanding increases surface area, which
> increases the force necessary to delaminate. More important they say
> is that abrasion breaks the surface tension, and the degree of
> abrasion (if needed at all) need only reduce it below its "critical"
> surface tension, which is also relative to the surface tension of the
> paint being applied. It all has to do with the paint's ability to
> "wet" the surface.
>
> Or so they try to explain, with lots of really big words!
The amazing thing to me about all of this, as I press ahead with the smooth
prime...... If I spill it, I can never get it off! It is only when you don't
want it to come off that it will do so.
I now plan to fly the airplane with 100% primer and deal with the finish
coat
later -- probably doing some test painting during the initial flight tests.
This is getting way too complicated!
Dave
A227
mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
> The amazing thing to me about all of this, as I press ahead with the smooth
> prime...... If I spill it, I can never get it off! It is only when you don't
> want it to come off that it will do so.
>
> I now plan to fly the airplane with 100% primer and deal with the finish coat
> later -- probably doing some test painting during the initial flight tests.
> This is getting way too complicated!
>
> Dave
> A227
> mini U2
Like also if you have a spray gun with a mirrored external surface,
dribbles of paint may require chemical stripping to remove!
If flying with primer, I think one needs a plan to deal with all
manner of contaminants that can bore deep into the primer, with no way
to know how much needs to be sanded before topcoating. A few fisheyes
can ruin an entire wing. I don't know what the best plan is, but
maybe a thin film of a compatible something to seal it up. Will have
to sand anyway. I have experienced fisheyes and mottling where you
sand down further into the primer, recoat, and they reappear!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Europa flyout |
The visit is to RAF Odiham, Hampshire, UK. No flight offered, strictly all ground
based. Contact me offlist at:-
Davebuzz(at)aol.com
for further details
chus,
dave
> Folks,
> a frienf wants to know hen the europa flyout to RAF ??? is gonna
> take place. I have tried looking through the archive to see the messages that
> were sent some weeks back but drawing a blank. There was something about
> visiting RAF ??? and a little tour in a chinook helicopter( not sure). Anyone
> remember this?
>
> regards.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Dave,
Polyfiber recommends that you DO NOT fly with primer only (see page 20 in
their brochure)
Dale
#A140.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Medicals and the NPPL |
My Class2 medical on my CAA PPL has just expired and now needs renewing.
Unfortunately I just found out last week that my CAA medical examiner has
retired and so I am looking for a new one. The last guy was excellent and
olny charged 50 for the exam and ECG (as long as I paid in pound notes). I
suspect any replacement examiner will charge substantially more, and being
over 50 means I will pay this every year. I have been told 125 is the
current going rate for a CAA medical.
It would seem that now would be a good time to convert over to a NPPL which
I understand is a once only 130 admin fee to the CAA.
I'm not sure this is a good move as there must be a down side. The advantage
would seem to be that as long as i'm only flying for pleasure I only need a
doctors certificate and then only every 5 years (till 60 that is).
Does anyone know what the disadvantages of the NPPL are (eg: will I still be
able to fly on the continent ?).
I have a week to decide so any comments would be appreciated.
Carl Pattinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: CAA Medicals and the NPPL |
Hi! Carl.
The NPPL will not allow you out of the UK.
I use the "alternative to MMR Jab Champion" Peter Mansfield of Good Health
Keeping.Tel...
01507 329 100. He charged me 80 for the full works at Manby Near Louth
Lincolnshire.
I may be wrong but I think the ECG is every two years 'till the age of 40 to
50 then annually.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
PS. I try to keep mine current and have a new medical in advance of the
expiry date because the period is extended to the original expiry date (I
think up to one month)
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: CAA Medicals and the NPPL
My Class2 medical on my CAA PPL has just expired and now needs renewing.
Unfortunately I just found out last week that my CAA medical examiner has
retired and so I am looking for a new one. The last guy was excellent and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CAA Medicals and the NPPL |
As I understand it...
The NPPL doesn't allow the following (at least!):
1) Night
2) IMC
3) Overseas
It is hoped to reach agreement with other European aviation authorities in
the future for cross-recognition of National licenses - just like we had
before JAA PPLs.
You need the equivalent of an LGV/PCV medical to carry non-pilot passengers.
The equivalent of a car medical will suffice for solo and flight with
qualified pilots as passengers.
I note in some recent aviation magazine letter columns that there have been
some problems getting GPs to sign off NPPL medicals: "This is for a pilot's
license and I'm not signing you off for that even though I'd be happy to
sign you off for an LGV license". No doubt this will clear up in time.
I'm sure others can add further details...
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: CAA Medicals and the NPPL
My Class2 medical on my CAA PPL has just expired and now needs renewing.
Unfortunately I just found out last week that my CAA medical examiner has
retired and so I am looking for a new one. The last guy was excellent and
olny charged 50 for the exam and ECG (as long as I paid in pound notes). I
suspect any replacement examiner will charge substantially more, and being
over 50 means I will pay this every year. I have been told 125 is the
current going rate for a CAA medical.
It would seem that now would be a good time to convert over to a NPPL which
I understand is a once only 130 admin fee to the CAA.
I'm not sure this is a good move as there must be a down side. The advantage
would seem to be that as long as i'm only flying for pleasure I only need a
doctors certificate and then only every 5 years (till 60 that is).
Does anyone know what the disadvantages of the NPPL are (eg: will I still be
able to fly on the continent ?).
I have a week to decide so any comments would be appreciated.
Carl Pattinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
I am preparing on installing the main landing gear after machining away
the LG02A bracket as detailed in the manual. Though I note that there
are two 5/8" holes that need to be filled with something. The manual
makes note of the "anchor tube" that the bungee gets wrapped around.
There are barely any parts left in the shed out back other that the door
hardware. What is used for this tube? I suppose I am missing something?
I'm planning on just turning down some aluminum bar stock and boring a
hole though the middle of it to lighten it up a bit. What is supposed
to be here?ThanksSteveA143Mesa, AZ--- Steve Hagar---
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Anchor tube? |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Steve,
It's actually a steel tube in my XS kit -- unfortunately already installed so I
can't give you the wall thickness.
Best regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Anchor tube?
I am preparing on installing the main landing gear after machining away
the LG02A bracket as detailed in the manual. Though I note that there
are two 5/8" holes that need to be filled with something. The manual
makes note of the "anchor tube" that the bungee gets wrapped around.
There are barely any parts left in the shed out back other that the door
hardware. What is used for this tube? I suppose I am missing something?
I'm planning on just turning down some aluminum bar stock and boring a
hole though the middle of it to lighten it up a bit. What is supposed
to be here?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
In a message dated 10/12/2002 10:12:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gdale2(at)juno.com writes:
> Polyfiber recommends that you DO NOT fly with primer only (see page 20 in
> their brochure)
> Dale
>
I''ll take a look at that, although it seems their paint peels off, so I am
not sure how much I should rely on what they recommend!
Dave A227
mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CAA Medicals and the NPPL |
I have been told that a number of ageing pilots, like myself, go to France
for their JAR medicals, because it is cheaper (about 50 Euro! another
example of "Rip-off Britain") and much less onerous to pass. Unfortunately,
as I have already had a small problem with the CAA / JAR about mine, it is
too late for me to change horses. I'm afraid I don't know any more details
about the French medics, but if anyone else has had experience of this,
please let us all know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: CAA Medicals and the NPPL
> My Class2 medical on my CAA PPL has just expired and now needs renewing.
>
> Unfortunately I just found out last week that my CAA medical examiner has
> retired and so I am looking for a new one. The last guy was excellent and
> olny charged 50 for the exam and ECG (as long as I paid in pound notes).
I
> suspect any replacement examiner will charge substantially more, and being
> over 50 means I will pay this every year. I have been told 125 is the
> current going rate for a CAA medical.
>
> It would seem that now would be a good time to convert over to a NPPL
which
> I understand is a once only 130 admin fee to the CAA.
>
> I'm not sure this is a good move as there must be a down side. The
advantage
> would seem to be that as long as i'm only flying for pleasure I only need
a
> doctors certificate and then only every 5 years (till 60 that is).
>
> Does anyone know what the disadvantages of the NPPL are (eg: will I still
be
> able to fly on the continent ?).
>
> I have a week to decide so any comments would be appreciated.
>
> Carl Pattinson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
I agree entirely. Its all to do with surface free energy (or surface
tension).
Teflon has hardly any surface free energy, so nothing sticks to it.
Diamonds have the highest surface free energy of any material, which is why
grease tables are used to extract diamonds from alluvial deposits (the
diamonds stick to the grease while all the other minerals are washed by).
Thus, the idea of tooth adhesion is a myth (except in former Soviet states
were it was held to be true). What abrading does (as you rightly state) is
to increase surface area AND to energise the surface to provide enhanced
surface free energy. The latter effect is short lived as contaminants (eg
atmospheric water) will quickly invade the new high energy sites.
This all sounds abit like a religion, but a chemist would be able to
explain it more authoritatively. What it all means is that, to obtain the
best possible bond, before any surface is coated (paint or epoxy) it should
be first cleaned and second abraded immediately before bonding; without the
cleaning first, contaminants are not removed, they are merely spread around
or rubbed into the nice freshly cut surface.
Duncan McF
On Saturday, October 12, 2002 4:23 AM, Fred Fillinger
[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
> McFadyean wrote:
>
> > The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase
in
> > surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be
no
> > benefit in a coarser roughening ....
>
> The article I cited actually goes into extreme depth, and mechanical
> adhesion is affected by many factors that I, at least, never heard of,
> one of which is surface tension. And even solids have surface
> tension. It's true that sanding increases surface area, which
> increases the force necessary to delaminate. More important they say
> is that abrasion breaks the surface tension, and the degree of
> abrasion (if needed at all) need only reduce it below its "critical"
> surface tension, which is also relative to the surface tension of the
> paint being applied. It all has to do with the paint's ability to
> "wet" the surface.
>
> Or so they try to explain, with lots of really big words!
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CAA Medicals and the NPPL |
William, Those of us who glide in France have had to have French medicals
for many years until this year when they at long last decided that they
could accept a UK class2 medical. They are certainly dramatically cheaper,
generally in the 30 range, and tend to be simpler, but not I suspect any
easier to pass. I could let you have names in Chatellerault and Chauvigny
(both in central France just South of the Loire, and with nice, cheap
airfields) but no doubt you could get a complete list by writing to the
Civil Aviation Direction listed in the French Bottlang for the region you
plan to visit. One doctor I know has for years been content to ignore the
fact that a friend only had one working eye, but this year he made the
mistake of seeing a different one who refused him a medical, as no doubt
would any CAA doctor. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: William Mills <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
Subject: Re: CAA Medicals and the NPPL
> I have been told that a number of ageing pilots, like myself, go to France
> for their JAR medicals, because it is cheaper (about 50 Euro! another
> example of "Rip-off Britain") and much less onerous to pass.
Unfortunately,
> as I have already had a small problem with the CAA / JAR about mine, it is
> too late for me to change horses. I'm afraid I don't know any more
details
> about the French medics, but if anyone else has had experience of this,
> please let us all know.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: CAA Medicals and the NPPL
>
>
> > My Class2 medical on my CAA PPL has just expired and now needs renewing.
> >
> > Unfortunately I just found out last week that my CAA medical examiner
has
> > retired and so I am looking for a new one. The last guy was excellent
and
> > olny charged 50 for the exam and ECG (as long as I paid in pound
notes).
> I
> > suspect any replacement examiner will charge substantially more, and
being
> > over 50 means I will pay this every year. I have been told 125 is the
> > current going rate for a CAA medical.
> >
> > It would seem that now would be a good time to convert over to a NPPL
> which
> > I understand is a once only 130 admin fee to the CAA.
> >
> > I'm not sure this is a good move as there must be a down side. The
> advantage
> > would seem to be that as long as i'm only flying for pleasure I only
need
> a
> > doctors certificate and then only every 5 years (till 60 that is).
> >
> > Does anyone know what the disadvantages of the NPPL are (eg: will I
still
> be
> > able to fly on the continent ?).
> >
> > I have a week to decide so any comments would be appreciated.
> >
> > Carl Pattinson
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
>I agree entirely. Its all to do with surface free energy (or surface
>tension).
>Thus, the idea of tooth adhesion is a myth (except in former Soviet states
>were it was held to be true). What abrading does (as you rightly state) is
>to increase surface area AND to energise the surface to provide enhanced
>surface free energy. The latter effect is short lived as contaminants (eg
>atmospheric water) will quickly invade the new high energy sites.
Duncan & Fred,
This is the idea behind peel ply. It also explains, which unfortunately the
manual does not!>? why it is important not to remove the peel ply until the
next bond is about to be made.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss |
Can anyone say _definitively_ how critical this is? For example, when doing
my flaps and ailerons, time constraints meant that I would have to do the
process as follows:
1) Day 1: Prep for layups
1) Day 2: Lay up one skin and leave to cure
2) Day 5: Trim, pull peel ply, sand peel-ply bumps and ridges, sand to taper
the skin to the other surface
3) Day 6: Scuff sand the skin at the join (a relatively quick process),
layup the other skin
I've always understood that if the peel ply is removed early, scuff sanding
restores the bonding surface. It's a pain, but if you can't finish the
trim-pull-sand-layup job in one go, it's about the only option.
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Re - Poly Fiber Top Gloss
>I agree entirely. Its all to do with surface free energy (or surface
>tension).
>Thus, the idea of tooth adhesion is a myth (except in former Soviet states
>were it was held to be true). What abrading does (as you rightly state) is
>to increase surface area AND to energise the surface to provide enhanced
>surface free energy. The latter effect is short lived as contaminants (eg
>atmospheric water) will quickly invade the new high energy sites.
Duncan & Fred,
This is the idea behind peel ply. It also explains, which unfortunately the
manual does not!>? why it is important not to remove the peel ply until the
next bond is about to be made.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Steve,
When I used the 'reply' function to answer your diesel queries,
I got the following;
" ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu
(expanded from: )
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu... User unknown
550 ... User unknown"
So call me again with a suitable return address and will email
my earlier reply.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | pa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
Anyone know if it is possible to use car cellulose paint (eg: Halfords) to
touch up Europa paintwork.
This was originally done using the factory supplied Aerodur 2 pack
polyurethane paint.
They are minor scratches and chips but would benefit from a touch up. Is
cellulose paint likely to cause an adverse reaction (blistering or peeling
etc).
Not too bothered about maintaining the pristine finish, just keeping the
elements out. The surface is already primed so no need for primer etc.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | e of Attack indicators |
I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa and
can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any positives
and negatives I can get.
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
Has anyone in the UK on this list got an approved PFA mod for wing conduits
(for wing-tip lights, outrigger position microswitches, and landing light)
that they would be prepared to let me use? Avoiding reinventing the wheel
would be nice!
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Top Gloss Finish |
I've found with similar glossy products (in this case 2-pack clear coat)
that 99.9% of the gun-gloss can be restored by using the progressively
finer grades of wet & dry contained in a Micro-mesh kit ( the kit for
removing scratches from perspex windows) prior to use of fine cutting
compound applied by hand.
Is it all worth it? This is a tremendous amount of work for something that
should (given the proper equipment and skill!) be achievable straight from
the gun.
I note that PPG have a range of water-based finish coatings, including a
primer-filler. But its price is double that of the solvent based stuff and
not far off the cost of the Smooth Prime. Anyone tried it?
Duncan McF.
On Friday, October 11, 2002 7:54 PM, Tony Krzyzewski
[SMTP:tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz] wrote:
>
> Once it has dried for a week I grab a palm sander and sand the entire
surface
> with 1200 followed by 1500 grit flushed with plenty of water.
>
> Then its out with the polisher, starting with a rough cut, and working
down to
> a fine cut.
>
> Once you have done all of that you can stand back and look at the shine.
You
> don't get a hard glider shine but from 10 feet it still looks pretty
good.
> Anyone who looks closer than that shouldn't have been standing on the
runway.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit |
Hi! Jeremy.
You don't mention whether you are XS or MKI ?
Mine is MKI and I used the white plastic domestic eliptical conduit and
secured it down the push rod tube slot in the foam and continued right on to
the end of the wing. However I know there was lots of debate about such
matters for XS types some time ago on the forum ,perhaps if you search the
archives?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG MKI
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Wing conduit
Has anyone in the UK on this list got an approved PFA mod for wing conduits
(for wing-tip lights, outrigger position microswitches, and landing light)
that they would be prepared to let me use? Avoiding reinventing the wheel
would be nice!
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Hi! Jerremy.
For my money the best alarm you can get when you have many more things on
your mind is the stall strips on the inboard end of the leading edge of the
wing. When the 'plane shakes, you instantly know to push the stick
forward,even if you are still in ground effect and trees/ overhead cables
are fast approaching . You won't have time to be looking at gauges. (Been
there, got the "tee" shirt!)They will need some very accurate testing to
find the exact location.
However I think Europa have developed a simple audible alarm that works from
the same location.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Angle of Attack indicators
I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit |
Ooops, doh! I'm an XS.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Wing conduit
Hi! Jeremy.
You don't mention whether you are XS or MKI ?
Mine is MKI and I used the white plastic domestic eliptical conduit and
secured it down the push rod tube slot in the foam and continued right on to
the end of the wing. However I know there was lots of debate about such
matters for XS types some time ago on the forum ,perhaps if you search the
archives?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG MKI
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Wing conduit
Has anyone in the UK on this list got an approved PFA mod for wing conduits
(for wing-tip lights, outrigger position microswitches, and landing light)
that they would be prepared to let me use? Avoiding reinventing the wheel
would be nice!
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Bob,
Many thanks for your email. My decision will be between the factory audible
alarm (much closer to what I'm used to than buffet strips) or an AoA
indicator which offers an audible alarm as well as an angle readout. The
former will be for the really slow work, and the latter for the cruise and
short-field approaches.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
Hi! Jerremy.
For my money the best alarm you can get when you have many more things on
your mind is the stall strips on the inboard end of the leading edge of the
wing. When the 'plane shakes, you instantly know to push the stick
forward,even if you are still in ground effect and trees/ overhead cables
are fast approaching . You won't have time to be looking at gauges. (Been
there, got the "tee" shirt!)They will need some very accurate testing to
find the exact location.
However I think Europa have developed a simple audible alarm that works from
the same location.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Angle of Attack indicators
I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Jeremy.
If you haven't closed your wings yet, I'd go for the Stall Warner. I
believe Europa has a kit even if you have closed your wing, but installing the
wing open kit is easy. That way, it's there whether you use it or not.
Jeff
Jeremy Davey wrote:
> I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
> for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
>
> Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa and
> can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any positives
> and negatives I can get.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
>Bob,
>
>Many thanks for your email. My decision will be between the factory audible
>alarm (much closer to what I'm used to than buffet strips) or an AoA
>indicator which offers an audible alarm as well as an angle readout. The
>former will be for the really slow work, and the latter for the cruise and
>short-field approaches.
>Jeremy
If you are a Classic, I would be inclined to fit both strips and a warner.
The buffet strips need to be tuned to give a straight stall , flaps down.
What happens is that the strips cause the stall to start at the LE, which
tends to be much more progressive. We had no stall strips, we wanted
maximum TO performance for the short strip we operate from, so our stall
started at the trailing edge and was vicious.
It's possible to set them so that the plane just nods, like a canard. There
is a penalty though, landing may be somewhat faster.
I still do not believe that buffet will be noticed when 3 or 4 other things
are going wrong. In those situations you need a strong reminder to "Fly the
Airplane" first,sort the problem later. Go for a loud warning horn IMHO.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
"Bob,
Many thanks for your email. My decision will be between the factory audible
alarm (much closer to what I'm used to than buffet strips) or an AoA
indicator which offers an audible alarm as well as an angle readout. The
former will be for the really slow work, and the latter for the cruise and
short-field approaches. Kind regards, Jeremy"
Jeremy,
'Scuse the extra message, but I may be reading something
into your reply that is not strictly so.
the Proprietary Software AoA offers. In fact a readout (Dial, needle,
whatever) is more dangerous than none at all. Like the USNavy device, the
indicator sits up on the coaming right in your range of sight during
landing. Its change of colour state cannot be ignored, nor is the need to
interpret a degree or angle. One just approaches "in the green", bleeds off
speed into the yellow, and cuts the throttle to stall in the red - tailwheel
down.
Also the audible alarm only tells you what you are doing. It's
the colour that tells you when to land.
The advantage to the AoA is that it can be used for lost-engine
descent, cruise setting, best glide rate and best lift/drag ratio as well as
best climb setting.....not just stall warning.
Happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | e of Attack indicators (and stalls) |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> If you are a Classic, I would be inclined to fit both strips and a
warner.
>> The buffet strips need to be tuned to give a straight stall , flaps
down.
>> What happens is that the strips cause the stall to start at the LE,
which
>> tends to be much more progressive. We had no stall strips, we wanted
>> maximum TO performance for the short strip we operate from, so our
stall
>> started at the trailing edge and was vicious.
I'd second that statement.
I've flown a number of Europas now and the three Classics I have flown
without stall strips are quite a handful in a fully developed flap down
stall. You still get the buffet but if you push it further then the
reaction can, as Graham says, be vicious. On ZK-NWM without stall strips
my first fully developed flap down stall had me inverted in a spin entry
and took over 400 feet to recover from.... not something I'd look
forward to on approach! ZK-RJL isn't quite as severe but the wing still
disappears faster than is comfortable.
My standing recommendation to the NZ Classic builders is that, even if
you feel you can handle the stall without the strips installed, they
should still add the strips and the stall warner in order to provide a
greater safety margin.
With the strips installed the buffet is extremely noticeable and the
break away is less severe. If that's not enough then the loud beeping
from the stall warning should let you know that you're doing something
wrong. On ZK-UBD, which has the strips fitted, I've been able to sit it
in the stall and just let the plane drop out of the sky in a very nose
high attitude.
In all cases power on, stick forward has always recovered from the stall
and stick forward, opposite rudder has recovered from the spin entry.
Naturally all of this testing is done with as much space between the
plane and the ground as practical, and allows at least 2500 feet for the
plane to recover and another 2000 feet for the pilot to recover.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators (and stalls) |
Tony/Graham,
Many thanks for these messages -- vital info indeed.
Should we interpret the specific references to the Classic to mean that the XS
wing has different stall characteristice, or are you just being careful to limit
your comments to your particular experience?
Best regards,
Nick Hammond
-----Original Message-----
| Subject: | le of Attack indicators (and stalls) |
>> If you are a Classic, I would be inclined to fit both strips and a
warner.
>> The buffet strips need to be tuned to give a straight stall , flaps
down.
>> What happens is that the strips cause the stall to start at the LE,
which
>> tends to be much more progressive. We had no stall strips, we wanted
>> maximum TO performance for the short strip we operate from, so our
stall
>> started at the trailing edge and was vicious.
I'd second that statement.
I've flown a number of Europas now and the three Classics I have flown
without stall strips are quite a handful in a fully developed flap down
stall. You still get the buffet but if you push it further then the
reaction can, as Graham says, be vicious. On ZK-NWM without stall strips
my first fully developed flap down stall had me inverted in a spin entry
and took over 400 feet to recover from.... not something I'd look
forward to on approach! ZK-RJL isn't quite as severe but the wing still
disappears faster than is comfortable.
My standing recommendation to the NZ Classic builders is that, even if
you feel you can handle the stall without the strips installed, they
should still add the strips and the stall warner in order to provide a
greater safety margin.
With the strips installed the buffet is extremely noticeable and the
break away is less severe. If that's not enough then the loud beeping
from the stall warning should let you know that you're doing something
wrong. On ZK-UBD, which has the strips fitted, I've been able to sit it
in the stall and just let the plane drop out of the sky in a very nose
high attitude.
In all cases power on, stick forward has always recovered from the stall
and stick forward, opposite rudder has recovered from the spin entry.
Naturally all of this testing is done with as much space between the
plane and the ground as practical, and allows at least 2500 feet for the
plane to recover and another 2000 feet for the pilot to recover.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
> Jeremy Davey wrote: I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple
> stall warner or to go for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator. Has
> anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa and
> can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any positives
> and negatives I can get. Thanks and regards,Jeremy
Hi Jeremy,
I have been very interested to read all the input on stall warning, angle of
attack and stall behaviour. My experience and comments are as follows :-
* I have a mono XS and in an extravagant moment when I was specifying my panel,
I chose a very fancy PSS (Proprietary Software Systems), 4 colour LED
Professional AOA system. This unit is driven by static pressure pick ups in
the wing upper and lower surface, the normal pitot static signals and a
micro-processor. (see www.angle-of-attack.com/ ).
* I have not fitted stall strips as I had heard of a negative effect on take
off roll.
* I chose to power up and calibrate the AOA system only after completing my 40
hour FAA test programme. The unit is calibrated in the flaps up and flaps down
configuration and a microswitch on the flap linkage provides the appropriate
signal for status.
* Stalls at min and max weight, with passenger and baggage ballast, flaps up
and flaps down, during the test phase were not alarming at all but did have a
left wing drop quickly corrected with stick forward and top rudder.
Fortunately, my experience is much more benign than Tony Ks inverted in a
spin entry experience with ZK-NWM; 400 feet for recovery sounds ugly to me.
* I find that from habit, on the approach, I still refer to my air speed
indicator first, and AOA second. I think the US Navy protocol calls for AOA
first.
* I believe that the value of any AOA/stall warning device comes to the fore
when one is in an unusual situation, perhaps with distractions. Classic (pun
not intended) scenarios might be (i) engine power loss during take off or (ii)
at a fly-in at an unfamiliar field with busy traffic, slow planes, planes not
listening to ATC, cross wind affecting base leg timing, etc, etc. Any and all
of these can contribute to turning too low, too slow, too tight, you name it -
next thing is that you may be in trouble. It can happen, I have been there and
I have the tee shirt.
* My AOA alarm has a very nice ladys voice recording which comes into my
headset at 1.15 x Vs1 or 1.15 x Vs0 and says Angle, Angle, Push. Normally,
the only time I hear this alarm is during the take-off roll just before lift
off and just as I flare for touch down. I try and keep it that way.
* Curiously, my planes stall behaviour seems to have improved since the test
phase. During a recent biannual FAA check ride, my examiner asked for a demo of
clean and dirty stalls. Both were straight ahead with a small degree of
buffet. My only explanation was that I may have had more bug splats on the
leading edge compared to the test phase. On reflection, this should encourage
me to think about experimenting with some small stall strips.
My final comments are :
* Any AOA/stall warning device is probably a bacon saver and a good
investment.
* If you are buying a PSS system, the less expensive Sport version is probably
very good value for money. It has a smaller display and may be more easily
placed at the top of the panel near the line-of-sight.
* Although the PSS manual did not specify this, the calibration should be done
at max gross weight. I found that if I calibrated the unit at low weight, it
gave a premature warning when I was at a higher gross.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators (and stalls) |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> Should we interpret the specific references to the Classic to mean
that the XS wing has different stall characteristice, or are you just
being careful to limit your comments to your particular experience?
I have not done any deep stall exploration on an XS wing (yet). The
stalls on the XS aircraft I have flown seem to have the same approach
characteristics as the classic but how it breaks, I don't know.
As a personal opinion, unless you are operating out of a very tight
strip I'd probably add stall strips anyway to give a bit of safety
buffer. Sure you'll raise the flare out speed a bit but I think that
it's worth it.
With the stall strips fitted on ZK-UBD I can hold it in the air at 39
knots on the prop and still kick it round in a 360 turn with the rudder
.... but don't try this at home (or at low altitude!).
The NZ test flying program requires the stall to be investigated at
different CofG locations across a wide range of bank angles. It's
actually very interesting running through the stall test programme as
you end up being quite confident as to how that particular plane is
going to behave when pushed to the edge of its envelope - rather than
just believing a figure that was published for a prototype.
Regards
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
Ferg,
I think we're singing from the same hymn-sheet on this one. I was thinking
about the Pro version, which offers the angle readout as well as the
colours.
Thanks again for all your help and advice - I'm pretty sold on this device
now, and was amazed at how many Europas have it fitted.
Cheers,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: AoA
"Bob,
Many thanks for your email. My decision will be between the factory audible
alarm (much closer to what I'm used to than buffet strips) or an AoA
indicator which offers an audible alarm as well as an angle readout. The
former will be for the really slow work, and the latter for the cruise and
short-field approaches. Kind regards, Jeremy"
Jeremy,
'Scuse the extra message, but I may be reading something
into your reply that is not strictly so.
the Proprietary Software AoA offers. In fact a readout (Dial, needle,
whatever) is more dangerous than none at all. Like the USNavy device, the
indicator sits up on the coaming right in your range of sight during
landing. Its change of colour state cannot be ignored, nor is the need to
interpret a degree or angle. One just approaches "in the green", bleeds off
speed into the yellow, and cuts the throttle to stall in the red - tailwheel
down.
Also the audible alarm only tells you what you are doing. It's
the colour that tells you when to land.
The advantage to the AoA is that it can be used for lost-engine
descent, cruise setting, best glide rate and best lift/drag ratio as well as
best climb setting.....not just stall warning.
Happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
| From: | Paul Atkinson <paul(at)theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> |
Jeremy
I have a Lift Reserve Indicator which does much the same thing as an AOA
indicator. I haven't used it in anger yet, but many years ago flew an
airplane with one, which converted me to the idea. For take-off and
landing you basically ignore airspeed and fly AOA. You just keep it in
the band that says you are safe and you always know how much margin you
have. Stall warnings happen rarely ( I hope :-) ) so if you get one
close to the ground there is a chance that it will take you by surprise
and cause you to over react. If you are watching your AOAI there is less
chance of an unpleasant surprise and you will be able to react to the
problem before it becomes serious. If you intend flying from short
strips it will give you the confidence to fly at slower speeds safely,
thus reducing landing and take-off distances required.
I can't think of any negatives, but then I am biased!
Paul
On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 06:24 pm, Jeremy Davey wrote:
> I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to
> go
> for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
>
> Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa
> and
> can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any
> positives
> and negatives I can get.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA/stall warners |
As a side note (I'm planning to use Europa's stall warner and no stall
strips) I intend to fit a stick shaker - something the big boys almost
universally use - essentially a small electric motor fitted with a massive
eccentric weight, slipped inside the stick top. Preliminary testing shows
it's very effective, and I'm now saving up for a decent motor to drive
it....
M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Jeremy.
If you haven't closed your wings yet, I'd go for the Stall Warner. I
believe Europa has a kit even if you have closed your wing, but installing the
wing open kit is easy. That way, it's there whether you use it or not.
Jeff
Jeremy Davey wrote:
> I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
> for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
>
> Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa and
> can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any positives
> and negatives I can get.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William McClellan" <wilmac(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
I am installing the Lift Reserve Indicator as well. I am still building so
not any flight information. I decided on it because it has no electronics
so power failure or electronic failure does not matter, it is an analog
readout showing range of flight above stall, hence lift reserve...here ,
I'll just give the web site to explain it better.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
Bill McClellan
A164
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Atkinson" <paul(at)theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
> Jeremy
>
>
> I have a Lift Reserve Indicator which does much the same thing as an AOA
> indicator. I haven't used it in anger yet, but many years ago flew an
> airplane with one, which converted me to the idea. For take-off and
> landing you basically ignore airspeed and fly AOA. You just keep it in
> the band that says you are safe and you always know how much margin you
> have. Stall warnings happen rarely ( I hope :-) ) so if you get one
> close to the ground there is a chance that it will take you by surprise
> and cause you to over react. If you are watching your AOAI there is less
> chance of an unpleasant surprise and you will be able to react to the
> problem before it becomes serious. If you intend flying from short
> strips it will give you the confidence to fly at slower speeds safely,
> thus reducing landing and take-off distances required.
> I can't think of any negatives, but then I am biased!
>
> Paul
>
> On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 06:24 pm, Jeremy Davey wrote:
>
> > I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to
> > go
> > for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
> >
> > Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa
> > and
> > can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any
> > positives
> > and negatives I can get.
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
From the description I gather that the LRI does not show angle margin above
stall AoA but lift margin above 1 G lift at the calibration aircraft mass. That
would make it useful in the steady bleading off of energy in landings but not
as a warning for stalls at any acceleration and aircraft mass. For that you
would need an AoA measurement or, less expensive, a stall warning device that
acts as an AoA switch.
My 2 cents.
Jan de Jong
#461
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
>* I find that from habit, on the approach, I still refer to my air speed
>indicator first, and AOA second. I think the US Navy protocol calls for AOA
>first.
IMHO the reason is that the AoA will tell you something is going to go
wrong in the next 20 seconds. ASI tells you after it has gone wrong.
I think I would try and learn to listen to the AoA
Graham, apologies for the bee in my hat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators (and stalls) |
com.au>
At 12:02 14/10/2002 +0930, you wrote
>Many thanks for these messages -- vital info indeed.
>
>Should we interpret the specific references to the Classic to mean that
>the XS wing has different stall characteristice, or are you just being
>careful to limit your comments to your particular experience?
>
>Nick Hammond
Nick,
The XS has a bit more washout which will make a wing drop less likely,
however, its leading edge is going to more accurately conform to what Don
designed, so that should help too.
Its very easy to increase the nose radius by over sanding on a Classic wing
and that may not be good.
I agree with Tony's remarks,particularly re fitting stall strips. Except
that I never have believed the buffet to be useful. In the heat of the
battle with the 2 or 3 things going wrong at once, you are likely to have
your own gyros just a bit toppled and not notice the buffet, or mistake it
for turbulence. Pretty sure mine were.
Note, my opinions only. \Always get a second opinion.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Jan de Jong wrote:
>
> >From the description I gather that the LRI does not show angle margin above
> stall AoA but lift margin above 1 G lift at the calibration aircraft mass. That
> would make it useful in the steady bleading off of energy in landings but not
> as a warning for stalls at any acceleration and aircraft mass. For that you
> would need an AoA measurement or, less expensive, a stall warning device that
> acts as an AoA switch.
> My 2 cents.
LRI's web site contains only an excerpt from a June '84 Aviation
Consumer article. The complete article, which in many parts is not
complimentary to the original inventor (was rather of a character),
has better info. It discusses testing by Roy Lopresti and Aviation
Consumer, a no-advertising magazine. They both claim it does give you
margin above stall, at various weights, G-loaded flight, and
airspeeds. While apparently not exact AoA measurement, the testing
showed any "AoA error" - re G-loaded flight and higher airspeeds -
were on the safe side and therefore does what you want it to do.
I can't argue its merits relative to any other, but point out there's
missing but pertinent magazine article content that they just can't
quote!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William McClellan" <wilmac(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
The web site, www.liftreserve.com, has a considerable amount of information
including 7 articles from magazines and reports as well as many other pages
of info(see the bottom of the web site page). Additionally, I called the
number listed on the site, though some time ago, and got other helpful
installation info. I have since installed the LRI.
Bill McClellan
A164
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
> Jan de Jong wrote:
> >
> > >From the description I gather that the LRI does not show angle margin
above
> > stall AoA but lift margin above 1 G lift at the calibration aircraft
mass. That
> > would make it useful in the steady bleading off of energy in landings
but not
> > as a warning for stalls at any acceleration and aircraft mass. For that
you
> > would need an AoA measurement or, less expensive, a stall warning device
that
> > acts as an AoA switch.
> > My 2 cents.
>
> LRI's web site contains only an excerpt from a June '84 Aviation
> Consumer article. The complete article, which in many parts is not
> complimentary to the original inventor (was rather of a character),
> has better info. It discusses testing by Roy Lopresti and Aviation
> Consumer, a no-advertising magazine. They both claim it does give you
> margin above stall, at various weights, G-loaded flight, and
> airspeeds. While apparently not exact AoA measurement, the testing
> showed any "AoA error" - re G-loaded flight and higher airspeeds -
> were on the safe side and therefore does what you want it to do.
>
> I can't argue its merits relative to any other, but point out there's
> missing but pertinent magazine article content that they just can't
> quote!
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
All,
For what it's worth, I stumbled across this page http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm which has details for a "roll your own" AOA device.
It looks suspiciously like the result of reverse engineering, so one would need
to be cautious about infringing someone's Intellectual Property, but it might
be a starting point for people who want to experiment with AOA/Lift reserve without
spending large amounts of money. I may do this, but have been convinced
by the messages to date that wing strips and the stall warner are the first two
things to fit.
Best regards,
Nick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
All,
Went to the site to order the lights and following a conversation with them
they are no longer doing these cockpit lights! Dam it.
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Cockpit lights
Kevin
I'm mounting a Red LED Spotlight (Aircraft Spruce) on Roof Panel to
cover for poor daylight conditions.
12V supply needed and about $45. It' floods' Instrument Panel with
subtle light
Regards
Gerry
On Sunday, Oct 6, 2002, at 20:10 Etc/GMT, Kevin Taylor wrote:
> Folks,
>
> On my way back to the field tonight I began to realise I was pushing
> it to
> get back to base and was looking at my options for a diversion. I
> calculated
> correctly that I could make it back to base with around 15 mins of
> daylight
> left. As I got back I was hoping that there was no severe rain showers
> or
> low cloud over our field as that would mean a diversion from base
> would not
> be possible.
>
> This got me thinking IF I had to divert I wouldn't be able to see my
> instruments by the time I arrived at a diversion location. I now feel I
> ought to have a back up just in case for the future. Anyone got any
> suggestions on suitable lighting post build.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Kev T
> GOURO
> ---
> Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/02
>
>
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 1249 700631 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information.
If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in error
you must
not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us
immediately by
return email to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails are not
necessarily
secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in England with its
address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Folks,
Trigear GOURO
I have the RMI instrument which as well as giving Rate of climb, TAS, CAS,
Alt alarms and all kinds of other things also gives low airspeed speed
alarms. I have found it to be more than adequate and tends only to alarm in
the very last part of the flair, by which time the rear wheels are about
touching the ground and only once or twice on rotate if I pull it off too
early. (only did it to try it you understand, I never pull the plane off the
floor unless I am "OVER" 55 knots)
I don't have stall strips fitted and cant get my head around fitting some
when it feels fine as it is. With greatest respect I watch my speed like a
hawk as I know it keeps me alive. Do too many warning systems offer us a
false sense of security and offer us the opportunity to relax our piloting
skills when we need them?
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
Jeremy.
If you haven't closed your wings yet, I'd go for the Stall Warner. I
believe Europa has a kit even if you have closed your wing, but installing
the
wing open kit is easy. That way, it's there whether you use it or not.
Jeff
Jeremy Davey wrote:
> I'm at the stage of deciding whether to fit a simple stall warner or to go
> for a more sophisticated angle-of-attack indicator.
>
> Has anyone out there got an angle-of-attack indicators on their Europa and
> can offer some thoughts on their experiences. I'm looking for any
positives
> and negatives I can get.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
Fred Fillinger wrote:
> LRI's web site contains only an excerpt from a June '84 Aviation
> Consumer article. The complete article, which in many parts is not
> complimentary to the original inventor (was rather of a character),
> has better info. It discusses testing by Roy Lopresti and Aviation
> Consumer, a no-advertising magazine. They both claim it does give you
> margin above stall, at various weights, G-loaded flight, and
> airspeeds. While apparently not exact AoA measurement, the testing
> showed any "AoA error" - re G-loaded flight and higher airspeeds -
> were on the safe side and therefore does what you want it to do.
>
> I can't argue its merits relative to any other, but point out there's
> missing but pertinent magazine article content that they just can't
> quote!
You may be right. In that case I don't understand how it works.
Jan de Jong
#461
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
Yes, I tried to order the same light from ACS. What I ended up with is two
Kensington Flylights. http://www.kensington.com/html/1176.html
I'm going to mount them in the overhead, pull down and point for use. I have
a red and blue one and like the output of both. ($16 each + shipping) You
will need to reduce input voltage to 5v. I've tested them with a battery
source and they both work well. I'm going to wire in two usb plugs so I can
move or replace them easily.
SteveD
A217
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnh(at)ddsc.demon.co.uk> |
In support of Steves idea. The Kensington Flylights are excellent. Well
made and a real nice zone of light. I use a 'platignum' one regularly
from a USB connection on an Apple i-Book whilst on long haul Flights.
Wish I had thought of it!
Gerry
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
Tel No: +44 7808 402404
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 1249 700631 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information.
If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in error
you must
not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us
immediately by
return email to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails are not
necessarily
secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in England with its
address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
You could try Light Aero Spares in the UK. They have a lovely looking little
swivel unit that can change from tight to wide beam, white to red lens.
Removeable head for passenger map/book reading. Push button for full
brightness. Sounds very nice. Downside is cost - 83.26 + P&P. Part no
S1990/12.
01409 281578 or www.lightaero.co.uk.
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Cockpit lights
All,
Went to the site to order the lights and following a conversation with them
they are no longer doing these cockpit lights! Dam it.
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Cockpit lights
Kevin
I'm mounting a Red LED Spotlight (Aircraft Spruce) on Roof Panel to
cover for poor daylight conditions.
12V supply needed and about $45. It' floods' Instrument Panel with
subtle light
Regards
Gerry
On Sunday, Oct 6, 2002, at 20:10 Etc/GMT, Kevin Taylor wrote:
> Folks,
>
> On my way back to the field tonight I began to realise I was pushing
> it to
> get back to base and was looking at my options for a diversion. I
> calculated
> correctly that I could make it back to base with around 15 mins of
> daylight
> left. As I got back I was hoping that there was no severe rain showers
> or
> low cloud over our field as that would mean a diversion from base
> would not
> be possible.
>
> This got me thinking IF I had to divert I wouldn't be able to see my
> instruments by the time I arrived at a diversion location. I now feel I
> ought to have a back up just in case for the future. Anyone got any
> suggestions on suitable lighting post build.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Kev T
> GOURO
> ---
> Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/02
>
>
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 1249 700631 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information.
If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in error
you must
not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us
immediately by
return email to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails are not
necessarily
secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in England with its
address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James M. Bavendam" <james(at)bavendam.com> |
| Subject: | pa Stall Behavior |
Tony S. Krzyzewski wrote:
> I've flown a number of Europas now and the three Classics I have flown
> without stall strips are quite a handful in a fully developed flap down
> stall. You still get the buffet but if you push it further then the
> reaction can, as Graham says, be vicious. On ZK-NWM without stall strips
> my first fully developed flap down stall had me inverted in a spin entry
> and took over 400 feet to recover from.... not something I'd look
> forward to on approach!
I understand that Tony's remarks refer specifically to the Classic
models he has flown. Has anyone had experiences like this in an XS?
James B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
I'd like to say that I personally agree with a previous posting on this
subject.
I'm certainly not saying mistakes don't happen, and I acknowledge that
if builders want to add
more and more accessories, particularly with safety in mind, then that's
their perogative.
The Europa I believe, falls into a category of aircraft which should be
built light, and VFR flying should as straightforward as possible.
I think that there's a trade off between warning mechanisms, complexity,
weight and safety.
There is a well accepted statistical theory called 'risk compensation'
which, when applied to the highway, accounts for the propensity of road
drivers to take greater risks when presented with increased safety
measures introduced by car manufacturers.
Sometimes I wonder if having a extra safety system installed may make me
complacent enough to overlook simple visual checks and neglect basic
pilot skills ?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
Folks,
Trigear GOURO
I have the RMI instrument which as well as giving Rate of climb, TAS,
CAS,
Alt alarms and all kinds of other things also gives low airspeed speed
alarms. I have found it to be more than adequate and tends only to alarm
in
the very last part of the flair, by which time the rear wheels are about
touching the ground and only once or twice on rotate if I pull it off
too
early. (only did it to try it you understand, I never pull the plane off
the
floor unless I am "OVER" 55 knots)
I don't have stall strips fitted and cant get my head around fitting
some
when it feels fine as it is. With greatest respect I watch my speed
like a
hawk as I know it keeps me alive. Do too many warning systems offer us a
false sense of security and offer us the opportunity to relax our
piloting
skills when we need them?
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
I'm trying to plan the layout of the rudder cable items. I
wanted to include turnbuckles in the aft fuselage section - clear of the mud
but reachable through the maintenance hatch.
In order to do this, I would appreciate a measurement of the
rudder pedal full travel, or the rudder horn travel, or better yet the range
of travel of the rudder cable (full Left to full right) as installed. Graham
has warned me of this so am keen to avoid jamming or wear. I am installing
the long tailwheel mod and Graham's alternative tailwheel cabling, so that's
why I require the travel ahead of the aft bulkhead.
Any measurement of the cable travel range would be much
appreciated.
happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
While I do agree with your premise that the Europa should be built light and
minus unnecessary complexity, I beg to differ on you conclusion regarding
AOA. An electro-pneumatic AOA such as from Proprietary Software Systems
weighs about the same amount as the average pilot's body weight changes
during the day, and has the complexity of a few LEDs in a line on the panel
and a small electronics box located out of sight and drawing very little
power. In exchange for minimal weight and complexity the pilot will know
almost exactly how close to the critical angle of attack the wing is flying
for any combination of gross weight, CG location, and load factor.
Indicated airspeed and conventional stall warning devices give no such
indication, merely telling us that if we fly at not less than certain
minimum airspeeds we will probably not stall. Probably, not certainly.
For us AOA is of no use at cruise but it is very useful at low airspeed,
especially in the pattern/circuit. Anyone not convinced should peruse, for
example, http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/aoa.html and
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_12/attack.html
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Alan D Stewart
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
I'd like to say that I personally agree with a previous posting on this
subject.
I'm certainly not saying mistakes don't happen, and I acknowledge that
if builders want to add
more and more accessories, particularly with safety in mind, then that's
their perogative.
The Europa I believe, falls into a category of aircraft which should be
built light, and VFR flying should as straightforward as possible.
I think that there's a trade off between warning mechanisms, complexity,
weight and safety.
There is a well accepted statistical theory called 'risk compensation'
which, when applied to the highway, accounts for the propensity of road
drivers to take greater risks when presented with increased safety
measures introduced by car manufacturers.
Sometimes I wonder if having a extra safety system installed may make me
complacent enough to overlook simple visual checks and neglect basic
pilot skills ?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
Folks,
Trigear GOURO
I have the RMI instrument which as well as giving Rate of climb, TAS,
CAS,
Alt alarms and all kinds of other things also gives low airspeed speed
alarms. I have found it to be more than adequate and tends only to alarm
in
the very last part of the flair, by which time the rear wheels are about
touching the ground and only once or twice on rotate if I pull it off
too
early. (only did it to try it you understand, I never pull the plane off
the
floor unless I am "OVER" 55 knots)
I don't have stall strips fitted and cant get my head around fitting
some
when it feels fine as it is. With greatest respect I watch my speed
like a
hawk as I know it keeps me alive. Do too many warning systems offer us a
false sense of security and offer us the opportunity to relax our
piloting
skills when we need them?
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Stall Behavior |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> I understand that Tony's remarks refer specifically to the Classic
models he has flown. Has anyone had experiences like this in an XS?
The XS wing has better characteristics than some Classics. One of the
great benefits of the XS wing is that you end up with Don Dykins design
every time rather than having builder variances introduced in the
profile. It's also a bit quicker to build!
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net> |
To all Europa Club members, I have to appologise for the delay that is occuring
with the latest issue of the Europa Club Newsletter. Unfortunately I decided
to upgrade to a new computer in mid August, leaving me plenty of time to put the
next issue of the newsletter together. However a long delay in the supply of
the base unit followed by endless small problems in setting it all up how I
require it has meant that the newsletter has been unavoidably delayed.
I am finally on top of it all and am about to start printing it now, so it should
go in the post by this weekend. If you know any members who do not monitor
this site, can you please let them know the situation. During all these problems
I have only intermitently been online so it has not been practical to post
a message previously.
Dvae Watts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
> I am installing
>the long tailwheel mod and Graham's alternative tailwheel cabling, so that's
>why I require the travel ahead of the aft bulkhead.
> Any measurement of the cable travel range would be much
>appreciated.
>happy Landings
>Ferg A064
Ferg
With the brackets and bellcrank assembly mounted, you just need to measure
the fore & aft distance the outboard holes in the bell crank. Just push the
crank from one stop to the other and that's it. (please don't tell me I
need to rewrite my mod notes!)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
>>snip<<
> For us AOA is of no use at cruise but it is very useful at low airspeed,
> especially in the pattern/circuit. Anyone not convinced should peruse,
for
> example, http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/aoa.html and
> http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_12/attack.html
Rob et al,
Quite agree with the tenor of the articles, with but one nit to
pick. Typically Boeing (see your second URL), they refer to the lift-dumpers
on top of the wing as Speed Brakes. They very well may brake by lift
control, but the term does refer to a family of panels which have no effect
on lift at all. These speed brakes are hinged panels at the wing trailing
edge which go vertical upon deployment - and thus affect lift not one whit.
See deH Vampire/Venom for samples.
Boeing (you-know-what-I-mean specialists) should vet their
writings by peer review - not in-house editting.
Otherwise, a neat reference! Thank you!
Ferg A064
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Behalf Of Alan D Stewart
> Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
>
>
> I'd like to say that I personally agree with a previous posting on this
> subject.
>
> I'm certainly not saying mistakes don't happen, and I acknowledge that
> if builders want to add
> more and more accessories, particularly with safety in mind, then that's
> their perogative.
>
> The Europa I believe, falls into a category of aircraft which should be
> built light, and VFR flying should as straightforward as possible.
>
> I think that there's a trade off between warning mechanisms, complexity,
> weight and safety.
>
> There is a well accepted statistical theory called 'risk compensation'
> which, when applied to the highway, accounts for the propensity of road
> drivers to take greater risks when presented with increased safety
> measures introduced by car manufacturers.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if having a extra safety system installed may make me
> complacent enough to overlook simple visual checks and neglect basic
> pilot skills ?
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Angle of Attack indicators
>
>
> Folks,
>
> Trigear GOURO
>
> I have the RMI instrument which as well as giving Rate of climb, TAS,
> CAS,
> Alt alarms and all kinds of other things also gives low airspeed speed
> alarms. I have found it to be more than adequate and tends only to alarm
> in
> the very last part of the flair, by which time the rear wheels are about
> touching the ground and only once or twice on rotate if I pull it off
> too
> early. (only did it to try it you understand, I never pull the plane off
> the
> floor unless I am "OVER" 55 knots)
>
>
> I don't have stall strips fitted and cant get my head around fitting
> some
> when it feels fine as it is. With greatest respect I watch my speed
> like a
> hawk as I know it keeps me alive. Do too many warning systems offer us a
> false sense of security and offer us the opportunity to relax our
> piloting
> skills when we need them?
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I have had a few people ask me about the flight test programme that we
conduct here in New Zealand.
As a result of these enquiries I have been speaking with the flight test
coordinator at the NZ CAA and they have given me permission to reproduce
the flight test programme documentation on my web site.
It'll probably take a couple of weeks before I can massage it into a
format suitable for online use but as soon as it's there then I'll post
a message to the group.
Rather than fly the plane round in circles for 40 hours, the programme
here now requires the designated test pilot to sign a statement to the
effect that the aircraft has been tested and is safe to fly in all of
the tested manoeuvres and weights. This, in effect, means that the
aircraft has to be flown at all four corners of the weight and balance
box and through all speeds that the aircraft will be cleared to fly at.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnh(at)ddsc.demon.co.uk> |
Kevin Hi!
These Spot Lights no longer 'stocked by ACS are from a Company called:
R. V. Redmer
19N831 Big Timber Road
Hampshire
IL 60140
USA
Tel No: +1 847 683 1319
The Model No: 300A Spot Light Red 14VDC
> All,
>
> Went to the site to order the lights and following a conversation with
> them
> they are no longer doing these cockpit lights! Dam it.
>
> Kev T
>
Regards
Gerry
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
Tel No: +44 7808 402404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Flyer delays |
>I am finally on top of it all and am about to start printing it now, so it
>should go in the post by this weekend. If you know any members who do not
>monitor this site, can you please let them know the situation. During all
>these problems I have only intermitently been online so it has not been
>practical to post a message previously.
>Dvae Watts
Good to have you back , Dave!
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McKirdy" <garymckirdy(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> Anyone know if it is possible to use car cellulose paint (eg: Halfords) to
> touch up Europa paintwork.
>
> This was originally done using the factory supplied Aerodur 2 pack
> polyurethane paint.
>
> They are minor scratches and chips but would benefit from a touch up. Is
Carl, you can put cellulose on top of 2 pack paints but why bother. The
answer in your case would be to go to a colour match paint shop taking a
clean example of the colour on a hatch cover for example. They will re-tint
the paint supplied it if it cures a slightly different colour so do a test
piece. You can order their own 2 pack for serious resprays and for an extra
5 they will provide you with an aerosol of that colour with an air curing
agent for touch ups. Both will prove harder wearing than what you currently
have. There is a Colour Match shop in Banbury who are very helpful.
You may remember I am a fan of Gelcoat, now you are beginning to see why. It
would not need re-doing for 30 years and is only heavy if you ignore the
fact that half of what you put on comes off in the blocking down process.
Ofcourse repairs if you ever need them are easy since the entire depth of
material down to the structure is one colour with only one interface for
bond adhesion. In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
and will need 120 HP to get airborne. Whilst they get heavier with age and
keep costing lots of money to re-do, the gelcoated aircraft is slowly
getting lighter and need only be hard waxed on the odd occasion to keep the
superior finish looking good. I don't own shares in Gelcoat companies, but
when a tried and tested dedicated specialist aviation product designed for
composite aircraft with that kind of track record can be bought for the
price of Europa paint why experiment? The truth will out and my customers
and friends will remain one and the same.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
Ferg-
I measure about 2.5 inches total travel, lock to lock. I ran my rudder
cables through nylon tubing back to brackets mounted on the pitch push rod
containment. The turnbuckles are inserted in between the push rod
containment and the rear bulkhead, about at the midpoint, which happens to
line up nicely with the large inspection port. Unfortunately, once you get
your arm in the inspection port, you can't really see what you're doing, and
adjustment and safety wiring will have to be done by feel! I also removed
the hard pitch stops and substituted U-shaped loops of heavy-duty flat
belting, which gives a much gentler, less irritating stop. A big
improvement, I think.
Pops
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Rudder pedal travel
Cheers,
I'm trying to plan the layout of the rudder cable items. I
wanted to include turnbuckles in the aft fuselage section - clear of the mud
but reachable through the maintenance hatch.
In order to do this, I would appreciate a measurement of the
rudder pedal full travel, or the rudder horn travel, or better yet the range
of travel of the rudder cable (full Left to full right) as installed. Graham
has warned me of this so am keen to avoid jamming or wear. I am installing
the long tailwheel mod and Graham's alternative tailwheel cabling, so that's
why I require the travel ahead of the aft bulkhead.
Any measurement of the cable travel range would be much
appreciated.
happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Another little tip.... if you use turnbuckles with clips then position
the turnbuckles so that the notch where you slide the clip in faces you.
It's hard enough putting the clips in blind without having to do it on
the far side of the turnbuckle. Learnt that one the hard way!
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
and will need 120 HP to get airborne.
Gary, I built a Long EZ which was painted in 1985. I know that's not 30 years
ago ( only 17 years) and it's not on it's 2nd respray even.
Regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Thank you in anticipation. Many will be interested!
JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Subject: Flight testing
> I have had a few people ask me about the flight test programme that we
> conduct here in New Zealand.
>snipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
Tony S. Krzyzewski wrote:
>Another little tip.... if you use turnbuckles with clips then position
>the turnbuckles so that the notch where you slide the clip in faces you.
>
.....and when it comes to adjusting the length of the turnbuckle with
one hand, one takes about one foot of soldering rod or it's like,
sharpens the two ends, bends it in a ''u'' and inserts the two points
one in each end of the turnbuckle and let it rest against the structure/
your wrist/ etc.
Then you are free to turn the adjuster to the required length...
One question to the position of the turnbuckles, any reason not to put
them further forward by the batteries? Would they flap about too much?
Alex, kit 529.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Angle of Attack indicators |
The big makers of flying machines all like to develop their own
terminology and countries do too. Sweden had for many years the standing
requirement to make available all aircraft documentation in Swedish.
Words that did not exist were invented, lots of people were employed
doing this but I don't think it did aviation in the country a fat lot of
good....Boeing and Douglas are good examples of this, perhaps
primordial, urge to differentiate yourself from the crowd by claiming to
know the truth the best.
Being of 'mixed heritag'e myself, (Boeing, Douglas, Airbus, Lockheed,
Fokker, various GA ones plus a bit of Goodyear Blimp to top it off) I
try to refer to what I learnt as a mechanic's apprentice:
Speed brakes have long arms and the panel that comes up has space
between it and the wing. This allows some airflow past the panel and
lift is not perturbed too much.
Spoilers have no free space to the wing. They pop up, create drag and
massive turbulence on the aft part of the chord, hence the term 'lift
dumpers'
Roll spoilers then, are same as the above, but actuated one one side
only dumping lift on one side, helping the aileron.
On later Airbus two ailerons are no longer necessary for each wing,
(Termed Hi and Low speed ailerons) as the control of the roll spoilers
have become more effectively used one aileron is deleted!
The number of possible permutations in airframes must be endless......
There is theory and then there is practice and in reality people make a
plane, then put names on the parts and if on part has more than one
function you make up a name, take flaperons and elevons. If a board is
placed on the top of a wing it will do a lot of damage to the
aerodynamics and it is not so easy to say which effect is the most
important....
My two centavos' worth..
Alex, kit 529
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>They very well may brake by lift
>control, but the term does refer to a family of panels which have no effect
>on lift at all. These speed brakes are hinged panels at the wing trailing
>edge which go vertical upon deployment - and thus affect lift not one whit.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
We've been making some more changes and additions to the Club Web Site at
www.europaclub.org.uk as an ongoing process. The next big job to be tackled
is the links - to Europa builder sites and other web sites of use to
builders, owners and fliers.
If you have any links you would like to see included, could you please
contact me off list and I'd be delighted to receive them.
Similarly, if you know of any events that we should include, whether they be
huge gatherings or a friendly local fly-in, please let me know.
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy Davey
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
(just itching to start the wings...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
I can't see any colour changes at all in my airplane (after I get around
to washing it, that is !!)
It is only about 5 years though.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
and will need 120 HP to get airborne.
Gary, I built a Long EZ which was painted in 1985. I know that's not 30
years ago ( only 17 years) and it's not on it's 2nd respray even.
Regards
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Alex,
My fairly cursory reading of this thread is that it has been about aircraft with
Graham Singleton's mod fitted -- this puts a pivot arm on the rear bulkhead
with separate pairs of cables going forward to the pedals and aft to the tailwheeel.
Like others, I have put turnbuckles in the aft set of cables but haven't
seen any need to put them in the forward set. There is nothing to tighten them
against except the springs on the pedal shaft and the amount of possible adjustment
won't do much to vary the pedal angle to accommodate different leg lengths.
Also, like you, I was worried about the extra mass causing the cables to
flap about.
Best regards,
Nick Hammond
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Rudder pedal travel
...
One question to the position of the turnbuckles, any reason not to put
them further forward by the batteries? Would they flap about too much?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
Nick and Alex,
"........haven't seen any need to put them in the forward set. There is
nothing to tighten them against except the springs on the pedal shaft and
the amount of possible adjustment won't do much to vary the pedal angle to
accommodate different leg lengths. "
Perhaps you fitted the cables after the gear frame and pedals
were installed, and could then measure the lengths required fairly
accurately. I was unable to do that as am being held up for details
concerbing frame changes to accomodate a different engine. Thus I have
separately installed then disassembled the frame and pedals in preparation.
This meant having to concentrate on preparing the cables without the usual
data. The easiest way was to accomodate any inaccuracy in the prepared
lengths by adding turnbuckles. These do not just tighten, but also ease
retroactive fitting. They do not lengthen the pedal springs because the
cables are connected by the aft bulkhead hinge arm at the back and the pedal
throw arms at the front. The springs merely tend to centre the pedals.
"Also, like you, I was worried about the extra mass causing the cables to
flap about.> Best regards, Nick Hammond"
I have added a different revised cockpit bulkhead behind the
original. It has a vertical component below the decking to the 'keel'. Thus
the cables are supported by lengths of nylon tubing which inhibit the
'flapping' without preventing loose contact.
I hope that explains the differences more clearly. When the
answer to the cable travel is fully answered I'll post the results for
anyone else who might be interested.
Regards
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
"........haven't seen any need to put them in the forward set. There is
nothing to tighten them against except the springs on the pedal shaft
and the amount of possible adjustment won't do much to vary the pedal
angle to accommodate different leg lengths. "
There is another good reason to add turnbuckles in the cables and that
is one of inspection. With turnbuckles in the cables it is possible to
undo them and draw the cables forward away from the pulleys to look for
wear at your 100 hour checks.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear UP stop |
Hey Kim, I have the main gear in and am looking at a gear up stop as you
recommend. Looks like a good idea as pushing up on the retracted gear (neg.
G) makes the tire hit the brake master. Do you suggest reduxing alum angle
to the inboard side of the swing arm with the horizontal part of the angle
going over the top of the swing arm outboard to contact a stop of ply
attatched to the side of the tunnel? I was thinking of the alum angle going
on to the tunnel side to contact the swing arm on the wide outboard reaching
curve of the swing arm. I am not quite seeing what you suggest. Could you
explain your mod a little more?
Thanks , Kevin
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of kpav
Subject: Re: Gear UP warning
On 9/30/02 12:40 PM, "Carl Pattinson" wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> As the day of our first flight draws nearer (permit to test applied for),
we
> have been having some thoughts about the possibility of landing gear up.
>
> OK so it shouldnt happen but everybody knows that if it can, then it will.
>
> We now of at least one Europa owner who lost his prop because he forgot to
> lower the undercariage and we are sure there are many more who kept quiet
> (lets face it its not something one admits to !).
>
> Anyway whether it is a real risk or not we thought it might be a good idea
> to build in some added insurance and wondered if anybody else has been
there
> before.
>
> A recent trip to Maplins came up with a nifty door alarm which costs a
mere
> 5.00 and activates an ear shattering scream (110db) when the magnet is
> moved away from the alarm box (about the size of a packet of cigarettes).
If
> the idea works we may remove the reed switch out of the box to save space
> (and move the box to somewhere out of the way). Incidentally the power
> supply is 2 AAA batteries.
>
> Our simple solution was to attach the magnet to the gear retraction arm
(on
> top of the armrest/ wheelwell next to the locking latch) with the alarm
unit
> resting beside it and then wire in a microswitch so that the alarm is
> powered up when the throttle lever is closed (or partially closed - some
> trial and error required here)
>
> If the throttle is closed and the gear is not locked down the alarm will
> sound (there is also a flasher). Sounds simple, so where's the catch.
>
> If anyone has a better idea please let us know.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
I installed (and recommend to other Europa builders) gear up stops. It is a
simple matter to redux/araldite 3/16" aluminum L shaped material to each
side of the swing arm. The horizontal faces of the L material contact
phenolic or plywood blocks reduxed/araldited to the inner vertical surfaces
of the center tunnel. This will prevent the tire from coming into contact
with the components in the tunnel when in a neg g maneuver, turbulence, and
should likely keep stuff from getting torn up in a soft gear up landing. It
is not that heavy and is really cheap insurance that could prevent an
otherwise expensive or time consuming repair. It will not keep the prop
strike from happening but at least it's an improvement.
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gear UP stop |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> I have the main gear in and am looking at a gear up stop as you
>>recommend. Looks like a good idea as pushing up on the retracted gear
(neg.
>>G) makes the tire hit the brake master. Do you suggest reduxing alum
angle
>>to the inboard side of the swing arm with the horizontal part of the
angle
>>going over the top of the swing arm outboard to contact a stop of ply
>>attatched to the side of the tunnel?
I had a similar issue once I had rotated the brake block to be in line
with the swing arm and found that on occasion the block would contact
the inside of the tunnel on retraction if there was enough force on
retraction to move the arm past the up position due to the momentum of
the arm.
I tried using aluminium angle but soon discovered that there was enough
overthrow in the arm beyond the normal up location to bend the angle out
of shape within a couple of retractions. I am now using a fairly strong
piece of angle with triangular insets welded in place to support the
angle. The contact surface is covered with a rubber pad to buffer the
impact.
If you do this you will need some way of dissipating the force along the
tunnel wall. Driving a couple of bolts through is not going to do the
job so you'll need to look at a support plate either inset or bonded and
glassed onto the tunnel wall.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
> There is another good reason to add turnbuckles in the cables and that
> is one of inspection. With turnbuckles in the cables it is possible to
> undo them and draw the cables forward away from the pulleys to look for
> wear at your 100 hour checks.
>
> Tony
Yes, but...one is best off in being able to adequately inspect the
pulley and the small portion of the cable subject to wear - just
displace the pedals. It will take thousands of hours for even an
acceptable amount of cable wear (up to 50% of outer strands) to be
visible. Actual troubles occur with the pulley itself, intentionally
not made of metal - wear, loose or frozen bearing, chafing, potential
jamming by debris. There's a basic precept in the inspection business
that critical things not be disassembled unless at least the lesser
evil. Doing so increases the chances, from 0%, that one day the
reassembly, or something else critical, will be botched! Something to
consider.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder pedal travel
> > There is another good reason to add turnbuckles in the cables and that>
> is one of inspection. With turnbuckles in the cables it is possible to> >
undo them and draw the cables forward away from the pulleys to look for> >
wear at your 100 hour checks.> > Tony
> Yes, but...one is best off in being able to adequately inspect the
> pulley and the small portion of the cable subject to wear - just
> displace the pedals. It will take thousands of hours for even an
> acceptable amount of cable wear (up to 50% of outer strands) to be
> visible. Actual troubles occur with the pulley itself, intentionally
> not made of metal - wear, loose or frozen bearing, chafing, potential
> jamming by debris. There's a basic precept in the inspection business
> that critical things not be disassembled unless at least the lesser
> evil. Doing so increases the chances, from 0%, that one day the
> reassembly, or something else critical, will be botched! Something to
> consider.> Best, Fred F.
Fred,
Quite agree. You are applying experience to Maintenance
Inspection which I am content to follow because I am a flyer, not a builder.
The practicality is that the greatest wear is probably around the pulley,
and the pulley itself. Since that doesn't move, I presume that it is not the
topic and having to inspect it is independent of the discussion. We then
move off onto the cable itself. If the motion of the pedals limits the cable
to about three inches either side of the pulley, I think mebbe the
turnbuckles allow me to move the forward area of the cable back to the
inspection panels by releasing both front pedal attachments in turn. The
portion of the cable aft of that section is more easily checked at the
panel, turnbuckles or not.
This may be exterraneous, but I have made replacement bits where
discovery of wear is most difficult to achieve. Thus cable parts can be
replaced quickly if the turnbuckles allow smaller sections of cable forward
or aft to be installed where attaching a thimble is easier, ie: aft of the
cockpit bulkhead. Or am I overcomplicating future repairs?
I am basing future repairs not on my life expectancy but on any
future buyer, or either of my two sons' acquisition. I am wary of house
owners whose repairs are based solely on their personal kismets. A
twenty-year house repair bears looking into. The aircraft can claim no less
planning.
all flames invited.
Cheers, ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McKirdy" <garymckirdy(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
> and will need 120 HP to get airborne.
>
>
> Gary, I built a Long EZ which was painted in 1985. I know that's not 30
years ago ( only 17 years) and it's not on it's 2nd respray even.
>
> Regards
> Andy
>
>
Andy,
Good to hear from you, you did well. Tell us what paint you used how many
hours you flew and how many times you ever have to rig and de- rig your eze
before and after a flight ?
Regards
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear UP stop |
>
>I had a similar issue once I had rotated the brake block to be in line
>with the swing arm and found that on occasion the block would contact
>the inside of the tunnel on retraction if there was enough force on
>retraction to move the arm past the up position due to the momentum of
>the arm.
There's another problem that can occur here. If the brake calliper assembly
hits the side of the tunnel at an oblique angle, it can wedge itself in and
generate enough friction to make lowering the gear almost impossible.
This happened to me once, ( on a Classic with LA tunnel mod).
When the brake [pads wear the calliper moves outboard and can eventually
start to strike the side of the tunnel when the gear is retracted. There is
virtually no leverage in the gear handle to push it down from retracted
position, you will need to look at the assembly drawings to realize this
but believe me!?! its true. The only thing pushing the gear out of
retraction is gravity!
This may only apply to LA modded Classics but check the clearance , gear up.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
<3DAECCB7.178A0E33(at)ameritech.net>
>. Actual troubles occur with the pulley itself, intentionally
> > not made of metal - wear, loose or frozen bearing, chafing, potential
> > jamming by debris. There's a basic precept in the inspection business
> > that critical things not be disassembled unless at least the lesser
> > evil.
> Quite agree. You are applying experience to Maintenance
>Inspection which I am content to follow because I am a flyer, not a builder.
>The practicality is that the greatest wear is probably around the pulley,
>and the pulley itself.
It is simpler, and with less moving parts, to dispense with the turnbuckles
and simply release the cables from the aft bellcrank by pulling the shackle
pins. This will allow inspection of the whole cable in relative comfort.
This assumes that one has the bellcrank assembly on the rear bulkhead, of
course.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
Tony,
Good point -- I have both sets of cables connected to the aft bulkhead pivot by
shackles. Undoing the ones for the forward cables there ((and attaching twine
to the eyes to retrieve the cables after inspection) looks as though it will
work but reconnecting the shackles and replacing the cotter pin one handed will
be tricky (as for any other work in there).
Best regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
"........haven't seen any need to put them in the forward set. There is
nothing to tighten them against except the springs on the pedal shaft
and the amount of possible adjustment won't do much to vary the pedal
angle to accommodate different leg lengths. "
There is another good reason to add turnbuckles in the cables and that
is one of inspection. With turnbuckles in the cables it is possible to
undo them and draw the cables forward away from the pulleys to look for
wear at your 100 hour checks.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
Fergus Kyle wrote:
> If the motion of the pedals limits the cable
> to about three inches either side of the pulley, I think mebbe the
> turnbuckles allow me to move the forward area of the cable back to the
> inspection panels by releasing both front pedal attachments in turn.
Sure, but if the angle is small at the pulley, you have all you need
to witness cable wear. Even if you can't see it all, and if the thing
busts FAA's 50% wear-through of two strands, and a strand or two pops,
she's still airworthy. You won't miss _that_ on an inspection, and
may even get mildly lucky before scheduled inspection when you hear of
feel something amiss in pre-flight.
> I am basing future repairs not on my life expectancy but on any
> future buyer, or either of my two sons' acquisition.
Not to deprecate airworthiness concerns, nor concern of who may fly
your bird in future, but I'm a sucker for statistics. I have years of
NTSB accident data in full relational database, including the "juicy"
fields they just won't use in published reports by NTSB and AOPA.
Total cable fracture is extremely rare, IOW, escaping simple
inspections like FAA says to do. The "juice" is that accidents here
for any mechanical cause afflict airframes with average airframe time
of over 4,000 hours! Admittedly the record for homebuilts is less
than that, but it essentially involves things informed and smart
people clearly shouldn't do, but well biased in favor of kit planes.
At least as far as control cables and such, your sons'
great-grandchildren might thus enhance their concern, except the
average annual flight time of homebuilts here is only 31 hours, about
25% less than "recreational" flying of old, aging production airframes
(avg. 29 years) - a far cry from MTBF of 4,000+ hours of the average
fleet. And after the initial test flying, they're statistically rather
safe.
Some may be interested in a homebuilt stat where if you exclude minor
incidents - but don't even bother to exclude a few instances of
plans-built planes where the builder disastrously thought a better
mouse trap, it's not just more likely - but almost certain - that a
mechanically-caused accident problem begins with the letter "F:" Fuel
delivery and Firewall Forward. Similarly, though the statistical base
for the Europa is still a bit small, but with the coincidence that
most Europas are flying in countries with the very best online safety
data - AAIB (UK) and NTSB (US) and in that order...as baseball great
Casey Stengel often said..."You could look it up!"
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
Hi Gary,
The EZ has only about 500 hours and I don't recall the paint name. It was the
same as used on Concorde (we flew into Heathrow in primer to take it to the BA
maintenance base, and flew out a week later; but that's another story, however
it's a great log book entry for a mere SE piston pilot) so I would expect that
it was a 2 pack polyurethane paint. It has a very high UV barrier in it so
it could even be the C21-100 UVR paint as used in the Europa paint kit.
The Long-EZ is one of the Rutan breed of aircraft and is not de-riggable in the
same sense that the Europa is. The wings and canard can be removed in about
an hour or two, but then the remaining fuselage with the wing root section attached
to it is too wide to trailer easily.
Regards
Andy
>>> "Gary McKirdy" 10/16/02 08:24pm >>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
> and will need 120 HP to get airborne.
>
>
> Gary, I built a Long EZ which was painted in 1985. I know that's not 30
years ago ( only 17 years) and it's not on it's 2nd respray even.
>
> Regards
> Andy
>
>
Andy,
Good to hear from you, you did well. Tell us what paint you used how many
hours you flew and how many times you ever have to rig and de- rig your eze
before and after a flight ?
Regards
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Plane Torque Tube Drive pins/Wear Statistics . WAS RE: - Rudder |
pedal travel
Hi! Fred and All.
Great statistical info! However you recognise that a "new" design such as a
Europa will have it's own statistical "bias" much earlier in the order of
chance. I'm particularly thinking of the Tail Plane Torque Tube Drive Pin
Wear problem (since I have been so closely involved) . It for sure has no
letter "F's" in it unless you include the ultimate effect ......."FLAPPING"
! FURTHER IT WILL BE ON THE "FRET" long before 4000 hours unless you've done
something to counter the problem! As to who will be the first guy who
experiences it ..... I am aquainted with a number who will be insulated from
the problem with their own favourable tweek on the "chance factor" . Thanks
for your orders chaps!
Regards and flying safely !(on the mechanical factor at least!)
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Rudder pedal travel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal travel |
> In order to do this, I would appreciate a measurement of the
> rudder pedal full travel, or the rudder horn travel, or better yet the range
> of travel of the rudder cable (full Left to full right) as installed.
On mine the cable travel is about 68mm, stop to stop (I have the GS tailwheel
mod).
John
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Simonnash41(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | x Serial Number location |
Hi everyone,
I have just received a Rotax service bulleten from Skydrive. My engine
(914) is still sitting in it's crate in the lounge (doubles as a coffee
table). Can anyone advise where the serial number is located on the engine
so I can check if the bulleten applies.
Regards
Simon (builder 495)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Serial Number location |
Simon,
The serial no is located on the top of the crankcase magneto side.
regards,
Mike.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Simonnash41(at)aol.com>
Subject: Rotax Serial Number location
> Hi everyone,
> I have just received a Rotax service bulleten from Skydrive. My engine
> (914) is still sitting in it's crate in the lounge (doubles as a coffee
> table). Can anyone advise where the serial number is located on the
engine
> so I can check if the bulleten applies.
>
> Regards
> Simon (builder 495)
________________________________________________________________________________
Just finally fitting Control Rod End Bearings before bonding in cockpit
module. The rear ones are impossible to get at once module bonded in. One
seems a bit dry - what kind of grease should be used - general purpose
grease ?? . Any one any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Folks,
Anyone got any advice please on my radio installation.
I have a Becker 3201 and I tend to hear quite a bit of interference from other
devices in the plane such as the mages and VP prop. I want to try and solve it
as it spoils the flight!
There is a suppressor fitted in line on the radio supply so any advice would be
gratefully appreciated. I did think it was the intercom as the noise went away
when it was switched off but today I realised the noise disappears when the
I/C is on but the radio is off.
One point I noticed is there is no squelch on the radio so cant try backing it
off.
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Simonnash41(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Serial Number location |
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Folks,
Today while flying (here in the UK) I did a practice Pan on 121.5. I was
surprised that even though I was at 3000ft LATCC couldn't get a DF fix on me
and it took about 3 minutes with a dedicated transponder code in order for
them to locate my position. Is this because I have a composite aircraft??
Incidentally they gave me a practice diversion to the nearest airfield which
I know closed 4 years ago! and they didn't know about the airfield I fly
from just 3 miles away that opened 7 years ago.
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
It's weekend and the Europa office is at rest, I presume.
Does anybody here know if my manual got it wrong, it calls for TLPK33BS
rivets for the firewall anchornuts, but I don't think they sent those
rivets in the fuse kit?
And while at it, I should also fit ''the P-clip'' (no p/n) on the lower
cross-member to fix the firewall to, but I see no other P-clip on the
list of parts?
Have a nice weekend folks,
Alex, kit 529.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
Kevin,
A DF fix is done with a VHF direction finder, the transponder gives them
the secondary radar fix and your composite sleek thing gives probably
little or no indication on the primary radar.
The two first should give a good picture quickly if the controller has
the time. Perhaps he is trying to discourage such practice on his duty?
Alex, kit 529.
Kevin Taylor wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Today while flying (here in the UK) I did a practice Pan on 121.5. I was
>surprised that even though I was at 3000ft LATCC couldn't get a DF fix on me
>and it took about 3 minutes with a dedicated transponder code in order for
>them to locate my position. Is this because I have a composite aircraft??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Alex,
No I don't think so he appeared keen for me to do a practice and was very
chatty when I told him his suggested diversion no longer existed and I told
him of our field which he didn't know about. He was asking exact location
runway length etc etc. Furthermore I asked if he wanted to accept a practice
before going ahead. I actually did this as about a year ago when I did one
for real they didn't receive me at all and my messages were passed to LATCC
by a Virgin trans Atlantic, hence one of my reasons for the practice today
in the same area.
He told me he couldn't get a DF fix and therefore needed me to use a
transponder.
Regards
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Kaarsberg
Subject: Re:
Kevin,
A DF fix is done with a VHF direction finder, the transponder gives them
the secondary radar fix and your composite sleek thing gives probably
little or no indication on the primary radar.
The two first should give a good picture quickly if the controller has
the time. Perhaps he is trying to discourage such practice on his duty?
Alex, kit 529.
Kevin Taylor wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Today while flying (here in the UK) I did a practice Pan on 121.5. I was
>surprised that even though I was at 3000ft LATCC couldn't get a DF fix on
me
>and it took about 3 minutes with a dedicated transponder code in order for
>them to locate my position. Is this because I have a composite aircraft??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet part number? |
Alex,
Try TAPK33BS got some this week and they cost 77 pence for 24.
Regards
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Kaarsberg
Subject: Rivet part number?
It's weekend and the Europa office is at rest, I presume.
Does anybody here know if my manual got it wrong, it calls for TLPK33BS
rivets for the firewall anchornuts, but I don't think they sent those
rivets in the fuse kit?
And while at it, I should also fit ''the P-clip'' (no p/n) on the lower
cross-member to fix the firewall to, but I see no other P-clip on the
list of parts?
Have a nice weekend folks,
Alex, kit 529.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnh(at)ddsc.demon.co.uk> |
"In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
and will need 120 HP to get airborne."
In the light of Gary McKirdy's prediction as quoted above. How many of
the pioneering Europas built and painted since 199* have had multiple
resprays or had engines uprated in preparation of the inevitable weight
increase due to yet another respray!
For those of us who have opted for Paint not Gel-coat I guess we are
running a very expensive aircraft. I'm having enough trouble selecting
my first engine let alone my second to cope with weight increase.
May be a Europa twin? [musing].
Regards
Gerry Holland
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet part number? |
>Does anybody here know if my manual got it wrong, it calls for
>TLPK33BS rivets for the firewall anchornuts, but I don't think they
>sent those rivets in the fuse kit?
In my XS monowheel manual, on Page 23-4 Issue 2 (1-10-99) and Page
31-2 Issue 1 (31-10-97), Pop rivets TAPK33BS are incorrectly shown as
TLPK33BS. I have pointed this out to Roger at the factory and it is
due to be corrected at the next issue. My fuselage kit included 73
off Pop rivet 2.8mmD x 5.0mmL CSK [TAPK33BS].
>I should also fit ''the P-clip'' (no p/n) on the lower cross-member
>to fix the firewall to, but I see no other P-clip on the list of
>parts?
I don't have my manual handy to check this, but my cross-reference
database of parts and manual pages shows that the only p-clips called
out in chapter 31 are 3 off P clip cushion clamp (MS21919WDG10)
[MS21919-D10]. Mine were packed in the same box as the above pop
rivets.
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
Garry,
Do you know where I can get some of the same Gell Coat you used on my plane
(about one liter) in Germany??
I need to do some touching up this winter after 5 years flying.
Barry Tennant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
I spent 29 years in the boat trade, and have more than a little experience with
painting / gelcoat in a far more harsh environment than most aircraft will ever
see.
A gelcoat finnish will allways be heavier than a properly executed expancell /
eurathane paint finnish, the gel is a very dense material.
The adhesion of the polyester gel to the epoxy skins is weaker than staying with
epoxy all the way through, this can be proven easilly by making test samples
for both systems, and bending them until one of them parts, it will be the gel
that comes off first every time.
Most gel coats have enough UV barrier to keep the pigments in the gel from fading
[ this is also true of cheaper eurathanes ], they do not protect the substrate.
Back in 1976, I painted a test piece with International Paints Perfection 709,[
the leading yacht eurathane at the time ] and mounted it on a south facing slopeing
roof. It was still there last year when I visited my old colleages, still
looks as good now as the day I put it up there ! That is 26 years ago ! Gelcoats
will need constant pollishing to keep them shiny.
The newer family of 2 pack eurathanes are even better in this respect, exept for
the water reduced types which do not have the same performance as the good ''old
cyanide'' types.
Precautions must be taken when spraying the cyanide types, a full overall and an
air fed mask, not a big deal, go with the eurathane.
Methinks someone is touting for work ?
Happy building / painting !
Nev.
>>> Gerry Holland 10/19/02 10:14pm >>>
"In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
and will need 120 HP to get airborne."
In the light of Gary McKirdy's prediction as quoted above. How many of
the pioneering Europas built and painted since 199* have had multiple
resprays or had engines uprated in preparation of the inevitable weight
increase due to yet another respray!
For those of us who have opted for Paint not Gel-coat I guess we are
running a very expensive aircraft. I'm having enough trouble selecting
my first engine let alone my second to cope with weight increase.
May be a Europa twin? [musing].
Regards
Gerry Holland
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | AeroElectric-List: Some airplanes were never ment to fly . . . |
I thought this one was worth passing on to the Forum - for those unfamiliar
it's from the very useful aero-electrics list that Matronics run, and Bob
Nuckolls is the highly-respected guru on it.
It sounds like a candidate for a future Darwin Award...
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Some airplanes were never ment to fly . . .
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Just got this note from a friend of mine who was
inadvertently sucked into helping resolve a few
assembly issues on an amateur built airplane.
Seems the builder was offered one of our OV
modules but a supposedly learned friend decided
he knew how it was supposed to work without
reading the instructions.
After the alternator ran away and smoked some
electro-whizzies in spite of OV "protection",
my friend finds himself paddling upstream in
the rapids of ignorance with a very short paddle . . .
>The builder is making a GlassStar which is now in flyable condition. Big
>engine. His "friend" helped him rig the throttle cable. At first turn
>over of the engine, it went to full power, ~2900 rpm on a 3 blade
>prop. Pulling the throttle all the way out reduced the rpm about 300. I
>pointed out the problem, a lever "mechanical advantage" on the carb where
>the cable connects. Limited delta length of the "wire", I suggested move
>the attach point further in toward the carb to get greater "range". There
>was an argument with the "friend".
>
>A friend of mine spent some time with the builder. His "friend" had
>rigged the ailerons so that the "cross over" cable was wound around the
>"outgoing" cable, in each wing, two turns each side. Further, the flaps
>cable was wound around that. Somehow, it passed FAA inspection that
>way. You could put the stick anywhere you wanted, and it would stay
>there, with a real high "break loose" force. All of that got straightened
>out over 3 days of restringing by my friend.
>
>I was called in to look at the ELT installation. There was a dashboard
>remote switch of the "pull and toggle" variety. Can't change the position
>unless you pull out on the "flipper" - prevents accidental actuation on
>the remote dashboard switch. It was working in the ON-ON method. Pulled
>the switch and noticed that a terminal had been pulled out of the switch
>on the wiring side under the dash. Missing a terminal, it was just wired,
>for that wire, to the other side (throw). The builder's "friend" had
>checked it out for him, and rewired it; the builder said. I rewired the
>switch, so there was an OFF, regardless of the ELT "impact switch", and an
>ON, regardless of the ELT "impact switch", as well as the center "what
>ever the ELT impact switch wants".
>
>The builder has your files, which I gave him on a disk, my schematic, and
>your phone number and your e-mail address. He said that he gave them all
>to his "friend", and that the "friend" rewired your OV protection
>circuit. He said that there is now a third contactor. He didn't want me
>to look at it, even though I volunteered. He said that he isn't going to
>contact you.?!
>
>I have told my friend what I saw, he related the story of the re-rigging
>of the flight controls, and suggested that we both stop helping this
>fellow, because there might be implications during an inquiry that is
>likely in the future.
I was just going to suggest that approach. Some airplanes
were just not meant to fly and this may indeed be one of
them. I think I'd distance myself as far as possible from
this accident looking for someplace to happen . . .
>I really have to stop helping people.
Don't let this one event discourage you. The only
thing sadder than good information not shared is
good information being ignored. The bell-curve is
a fact of nature . . . SOMEBODY has a natural
obligation to occupy the lowliest places on the curve.
Fortunately most are eliminated from the gene-pool
at minimum risk to others.
I think it was Igor Sikorsky who was credited with
the following observation: "Most early designers
of airplanes were also the test pilots. This had
the beneficial effect of eliminating bad designers".
>Meanwhile, the abstract of my next paper (European GNSS 2003 at Graz
>Austria) is on the web at
>http://www.gtwn.net/~keith.peshak/GNSS2003.htm I sent a copy to the new
>FAA Administrator and the Transportation Secretary. I guess I am getting
>a little frustrated.
Understand. I'm just wrapping up a 4-year effort trying
to fix a $10 problem in a pitch trim actuator that
has cost us 10-15 million dollars in warranty claims
and untold damage in customer dissatisfaction.
The problem has gone on for so long and cost so much
money that nobody wants to admit that there was ever
a simple solution. Hence, we're about to embark on
a development program for a fine new actuator
that will cost twice as much (but last the lifetime
of the airplane), needs perhaps a $million$
more in development costs and will take two years to get
to the field. In the mean time, customers who bought
our airplanes in good faith are still getting screwed.
When you're dealing with professional bureaucrats,
consumer benefits and faith in the logical application
of physics are the smallest of driving forces
on their considerations. Doesn't matter if it's
government or business.
All we can do is be good engineers and don't
rewrite any laws of physics. If our audience
is high enough on the bell curve to perceive
the value of what we do, great. You may have to
bang on the bell a whole lot before you get
the attention of folks in top 10% of the curve.
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Plane Torque Tube Drive pins/Wear |
EXTRA EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT THE TAILPLANE TORQUE TUBE DRIVE PIN WEAR PROBLEM !!!
It really bugs me when people ''INVENT'' problems, and then via the forum, set
themselves a nice little sideline in ''improvements''
There are many Europa's out there with several hundred hours on them with NO play
in the pins.
The way play is introduced is the overenthusiastic use of large hammers during
the initial build, or drilling out the nylon collars in situ, which allows relative
movement of the torque tube components, which will eventually lead to increased
wear. If you don't screw it up in the first place, it will last for a
very long time. Allowing the mass balance arm to bounce on the stop when taxiing,
or trailing the aircraft in a trailer with too stiff a suspension may shorten
the expected life. We have noted, that of the very few aircraft that have
needed attention to this area, only one had to be done twice in 100 hours.
Here at Europa, we have increased the size of the drive pins, in the main to calm
fears among the builders, from this scaremongering, as in most things, bigger
is better !
If you should develop wear in service, the whole assembly can be out and on the
bench in 1 1/2 hours [ I can still get in the rear fuselage, I weigh 200lbs +
].
You will have perhaps a couple of hours on the bench drill, enlarging to the next
oversize, and then 2 1/2 hours to get everything back in place.
Certainly no need for the ''improoved clamping'' system.
Spend the money on a new dress for the wife, it will be better value.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "R.C.Harrison" 10/18/02 09:34am >>>
Hi! Fred and All.
Great statistical info! However you recognise that a "new" design such as a
Europa will have it's own statistical "bias" much earlier in the order of
chance. I'm particularly thinking of the Tail Plane Torque Tube Drive Pin
Wear problem (since I have been so closely involved) . It for sure has no
letter "F's" in it unless you include the ultimate effect ......."FLAPPING"
! FURTHER IT WILL BE ON THE "FRET" long before 4000 hours unless you've done
something to counter the problem! As to who will be the first guy who
experiences it ..... I am aquainted with a number who will be insulated from
the problem with their own favourable tweek on the "chance factor" . Thanks
for your orders chaps!
Regards and flying safely !(on the mechanical factor at least!)
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Rudder pedal travel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. R. Jones" <jronjones(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rod End Bearings |
General purpose grease appears to be the stuff.
Put a small amount into the threaded hole and then screw it onto the rod.
This will force the grease all around the ball.
Thats what I did, anyway!
Regards,
Ron Jones. (XS359. G.RJWX)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | y Mountain Instruments Site |
I have tried several times over the past few days to get www.rkymtn.com but
the page has not been available.
Have I got the wrong address or are they off line please anyone?
JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments Site |
Bob
I just got there web page using this address.
http://www.rkymtn.com/
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
> I have tried several times over the past few days to get www.rkymtn.com
but
> the page has not been available.
>
> Have I got the wrong address or are they off line please anyone?
>
> JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments Site |
Works for me. Perhaps it's an 'International' problem.
"J R (Bob) Gowing" wrote:
> I have tried several times over the past few days to get www.rkymtn.com but
> the page has not been available.
>
> Have I got the wrong address or are they off line please anyone?
>
> JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McKirdy" <garymckirdy(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tennant" <Tennant@t-online.de>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> Garry,
>
> Do you know where I can get some of the same Gel Coat you used on my
plane
> (about one litter) in Germany??
>
> I need to do some touching up this winter after 5 years flying.
>
> Barry Tennant
>
>Barry,
You can get a small amount from a local glider repair shop in Germany, just
phone first and check that they have Schwabbellac and you will want the
concentrated hardener for brushing and blobbing hangar rash which you add 3%
to the gelcoat. It is not a critical mix ratio. If you want to spray the
stuff they do a less concentrated hardener with an evaporative propellant of
ethyl alcohol to help it through the gun and that should be a 10% hardener
mix. Make sure to get the right one.Use Scheufler t-35 or Lesonal Voorgelat
only if you must.
Most important is to make sure you clean the wound with acetone or similar
only then will you end up with an invisible local repair. Block down wet
with 240 grit through 600 and 1200 then polish. You wont be able to find it
again.>See I have every confidence in a man with your ability.
Where were you last Freidrichshaven? I flew my quickie down 2 up unrefuelled
150mph @
50mpg. I will be there this year again in friends O-235 Quickie or Rutan
Defiant.My quickie is having a turbo implant.
Best Regards Gary.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McKirdy" <garymckirdy(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> Hi Gary,> The Long-EZ is one of the Rutan breed of aircraft and is not
de-riggable in the same sense that the Europa is. The wings and canard can
be removed in about an hour or two, but then the remaining fuselage with the
wing root section attached to it is too wide to trailer easily.
>
> Regards
> Andy
You can assume I was aware of that Andy and therein lies the point. Of
course with respect of the design requirement to enable multiple rigging
actions, the same applies to carbon and glass sailplanes which is why they
exclusively use the same generic product that I do not want to be accused of
advertising. I do however freely recommend its use to the group based on my
own extensive experience in finishing composite aeroplanes since 1984. since
there is not a single downside that I know of despite what the nay sayers
would have us believe. There is one individual in Britain who might actually
have done more of this work himself than I have, but he too recommends and
uses the same stuff.>
> >>> "Gary McKirdy" 10/16/02 08:24pm
>>>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
>
>
> > In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
> > and will need 120 HP to get airborne.
> >
> >
> > Gary, I built a Long EZ which was painted in 1985. I know that's not 30
> years ago ( only 17 years) and it's not on it's 2nd respray even.
> >
> > Regards
> > Andy
> >
> >
> Andy,
> Good to hear from you, you did well. Tell us what paint you used how many
> hours you flew and how many times you ever have to rig and de- rig your
eze
> before and after a flight ?
> Regards
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary McKirdy" <garymckirdy(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber)
> I spent 29 years in the boat trade, and have more than a little experience
with painting / gelcoat in a far more harsh environment than most aircraft
will ever see.
> A gelcoat finish will always be heavier than a properly executed
expancell / eurathane paint finnish, the gel is a very dense material.
> The adhesion of the polyester gel to the epoxy skins is weaker than
staying with epoxy all the way through, this can be proven easilly by making
test samples for both systems, and bending them until one of them parts, it
will be the gel that comes off first every time.
> Most gel coats have enough UV barrier to keep the pigments in the gel from
fading [ this is also true of cheaper eurathanes ], they do not protect the
substrate.
> Back in 1976, I painted a test piece with International Paints Perfection
709,[ the leading yacht eurathane at the time ] and mounted it on a south
facing slopeing roof. It was still there last year when I visited my old
colleages, still looks as good now as the day I put it up there ! That is 26
years ago ! Gelcoats will need constant pollishing to keep them shiny.
> The newer family of 2 pack eurathanes are even better in this respect,
exept for the water reduced types which do not have the same performance as
the good ''old cyanide'' types.
> Precautions must be taken when spraying the cyanide types, a full overall
and an air fed mask, not a big deal, go with the eurathane.
> Methinks someone is touting for work ?
> Happy building / painting !
> Nev.
>
Hello Neville,
Do you have any relevant and useful experience with quality specialist
aircraft Gelcoat to share with us?
Harsh environment is definitely the problem which we are addressing
especially in our U.K. climate as most of the Long/Vari eze builders soon
found out when using the Rutan recommended paint scheme.Poly-Fiber now know
of the problem too.
You may not be aware that gliders can go as high as 36,500 feet even in
Britain, I myself have been to 22000 ft in a glider and have yet to see a
boat up there!
The temperature up there is about -50 degrees Celsius and any moisture
absorbed lower down will expand whilst freezing attempting to blow the
surface coating off in peel, the worst design case for any coating. Are you
suggesting that gelcoat is what the snowflakes consist of in Aberdeen
downwind of Aboyne, N.Europe's premier wave soaring site?.
Gelcoat heavy ? only if you deliberately ignore the fact that half what you
put on comes off in the blockdown process. Gliders are all epoxy structures
and need to climb quickly as well, especially in the sort of hot air found
in
North Yorkshire.
I bet the majority of Europa Owners would just love to see the primary
aircraft structure properly finished in a thin veneer of specialist
composite aviation white gelcoat. After all, the doors and cowlings are
already gelcoat albeit in grey (which somewhat defeats the object), and to a
very acceptable standard. Why do you wish to knock the first good step
towards the use of Gelcoat by the Europa company?
All my aeroplanes other than the 4 gliders are painted. They include my
Europa, Quickie and now Rutan Defiant. If commercial interest was my
motivation for offering advice, why would I be potentially undermining the
value of my own aircraft by banging on about the truth as I see it?
.
This forum is for Europa owners to exchange ideas and tips on the routes
available to creating the best. Some of us even have specialist relevant
knowledge. Even the Europa factory crew must recognise that it does not hold
a monopoly on good ideas. I am pleased to see that you are listening if not
yet hearing. I am also sympathetic to the need to sell kits and the choice
the builder is offered to simply pop down to his local car spray shop to get
his aircraft painted. That can sometimes lead to a less than desirable
outcome and be heavy since weight is not an issue to the car sprayer ,but if
no alternatives are offered, he will be mislead into thinking that that was
his only choice and the loss will be jointly shared by the Europa brand
as well as the builder if it does not turn out to be successful.
It is surely in your own interest to stop calling black white and allow
builders the option to strive for the best even if you are unable or
unwilling to provide it yourselves.
Best Regards
Gary McKirdy.
Gary McKirdy.> >>> Gerry Holland 10/19/02 10:14pm >>>
> "In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th re-spray
> and will need 120 HP to get airborne."
>
> In the light of Gary McKirdy's prediction as quoted above. How many of
> the pioneering Europas built and painted since 199* have had multiple
> resprays or had engines uprated in preparation of the inevitable weight
> increase due to yet another respray!
>
> For those of us who have opted for Paint not Gel-coat I guess we are
> running a very expensive aircraft. I'm having enough trouble selecting
> my first engine let alone my second to cope with weight increase.
> May be a Europa twin? [musing].
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry Holland
>
> EuropaTrigear 384
> G-FIZY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Having worn out my old spray gun, I'm in the process of looking for a new
one... I'm considering HVLP, but find that those I talk to are 50/50 for and
against....
pros and cons of HVLP seem to be (1) much less overspray (2) harder to set
up (3) paint comes out less finely atomised and needs more time/thinners to
flow out....
Budget is up to about 150.
Initially it'll be used for painting ali and fabric (the Auster is in the
workshop for fuselage recovering) but no doubt it'll be used on some bits of
the Europa as well.
Comments, suggestions?
all the best,
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had to
leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it! (Nose
wheel last time, starboard this time)
Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose and a
main) and some tools to split the rims.
I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair kit
and what is in it?
Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like the
plane will be stuck there for a few days.
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephan Cassel" <cassel(at)sensewave.com> |
Hi Kev,
I used to have a tire foam can like(http://www.dccarcare.com/wurthtire.html)
in my old Cherokee. I used it ones with great success. When my Europa
is finished I will have one can in the baggage department. That is for
sure.
Regards,
Stephan #556
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had
> to leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair
> it! (Nose wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> and a main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair
> kit and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> the plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Any of us here Europa owners fitted a Skydat either GX1 or 2?? Looks very
comprehensive for the money and a couple of friends that have them in
Microlights are very happy with them.
Regards
Kev T
For those not familiar with it they are available in the UK at
www.airzone.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephan Cassel" <cassel(at)sensewave.com> |
Hi Kev,
(Sorry. Forget prevous reply. wrong link)
I used to have a tire repair foam can
in my old Cherokee. I used it ones with great success. When my Europa
is finished I will have one can in the baggage department. That is for
sure.
Regards,
Stephan #556
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had
> to leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair
> it! (Nose wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> and a main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair
> kit and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> the plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Anselmi <janselmi(at)netconnect.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Paint (Not Poly Fiber) |
G'day all painters,
Some of the pros and cons of gelcoat do not seem to have been mentioned
yet, so here goes.
There are advantages and disadvantages in using gelcoat.
Surprisingly the positives include brittleness and the "poor adhesion"
with the substrate. This is a most valuable indicator of underlying
damage. We had a rudder flutter incident with a glider which landed
successfully after the incident. The gel coat around the base of the
fin had flaked away making the extensive underlying damage obvious. I
have also seen polyurethane paint elastically stretch over cracks in the
substrate. With the possible exception of gelcoat flaking off after
very rapid descent at some thousands of feet per minute from altitudes
in excess of 10,000 ft gelcoat otherwise adheres to the substrate well.
The negatives include yellowing with age (not very important) and
shrinkage. The shrinkage causes some gel coats to crack along the fine
sanding lines which were produced in the profiling of the surface.
These cracks can propagate into the substrate which requires very
expensive repairs. In my case the cracks had not entered the substrate,
but still cost me almost the full value of the glider to have the gel
coat removed and refinished. However not all gel coats have this
shrinkage problem - you should ask users which ones do not shrink and
what can be done to reduce shrinkage. I am told that Ferro is one which
does not shrink and crack and that the gel coat should not be thinned
for spraying. Spraying also requires a special spray gun.
John Anselmi.
Neville Eyre wrote:
>I spent 29 years in the boat trade, and have more than a little experience with
painting / gelcoat in a far more harsh environment than most aircraft will ever
see.
>A gelcoat finnish will allways be heavier than a properly executed expancell /
eurathane paint finnish, the gel is a very dense material.
>The adhesion of the polyester gel to the epoxy skins is weaker than staying with
epoxy all the way through, this can be proven easilly by making test samples
for both systems, and bending them until one of them parts, it will be the gel
that comes off first every time.
>Most gel coats have enough UV barrier to keep the pigments in the gel from fading
[ this is also true of cheaper eurathanes ], they do not protect the substrate.
>Back in 1976, I painted a test piece with International Paints Perfection 709,[
the leading yacht eurathane at the time ] and mounted it on a south facing slopeing
roof. It was still there last year when I visited my old colleages, still
looks as good now as the day I put it up there ! That is 26 years ago ! Gelcoats
will need constant pollishing to keep them shiny.
>The newer family of 2 pack eurathanes are even better in this respect, exept for
the water reduced types which do not have the same performance as the good
''old cyanide'' types.
>Precautions must be taken when spraying the cyanide types, a full overall and
an air fed mask, not a big deal, go with the eurathane.
>Methinks someone is touting for work ?
>Happy building / painting !
>Nev.
>
>
>
>
>>>>Gerry Holland 10/19/02 10:14pm >>>
>>>>
>>>>
>"In 30 years all painted Europas will be on their 6th respray
>and will need 120 HP to get airborne."
>
>In the light of Gary McKirdy's prediction as quoted above. How many of
>the pioneering Europas built and painted since 199* have had multiple
>resprays or had engines uprated in preparation of the inevitable weight
>increase due to yet another respray!
>
>For those of us who have opted for Paint not Gel-coat I guess we are
>running a very expensive aircraft. I'm having enough trouble selecting
>my first engine let alone my second to cope with weight increase.
>May be a Europa twin? [musing].
>
>Regards
>
>Gerry Holland
>
>EuropaTrigear 384
>G-FIZY
>
>
>
>
--
John Anselmi,
20 Jones St.,
Stawell,
Victoria 3380,
Australia
Ph. 03 5358 2713
Fax 03 5358 2713
e-mail janselmi(at)netconnect.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Jeremy,
Yes I am but I'm not sure who what or where this is although I have heard
about it. Tyres fixed now but its a case of waiting for the weather to get
it back.
Best I go to the website and get some more info on the contacts etc.
Thanks
Kev T
PS A funny tale for you all. I took my 3 year old for her first ever flight
yesterday and she loved it! She kept asking me to turn and go up and down
etc. I did a few tight manoeuvres and she thought it was the best children's
ride ever! This morning when we saw Granddad I told her to tell Granddad
what we did yesterday and she replied "Granddad I left my tweenies scarf at
the airfield"
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE:
Kevin,
Are you a member of the Europa Club? Sounds like a classic job for the
Rescue Service!
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject:
What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had to
leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it! (Nose
wheel last time, starboard this time)
Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose and a
main) and some tools to split the rims.
I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair kit
and what is in it?
Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like the
plane will be stuck there for a few days.
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
Being a novice to spray painting I did a bit of research (Web surfing) and
the decision regarding the type of gun is similar to the decision made when
buying a computer (first decide what programs you want to run and then pick
the hardware appropriate for those applications). For painting first choose
the paint, then the type of gun based on the paint manufacturer's
recommendation. Remember also that the pressure and output rate of your
compressor must be suitable for the type of gun.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Miles McCallum
Subject: Paint guns
Having worn out my old spray gun, I'm in the process of looking for a new
one... I'm considering HVLP, but find that those I talk to are 50/50 for and
against....
pros and cons of HVLP seem to be (1) much less overspray (2) harder to set
up (3) paint comes out less finely atomised and needs more time/thinners to
flow out....
Budget is up to about 150.
Initially it'll be used for painting ali and fabric (the Auster is in the
workshop for fuselage recovering) but no doubt it'll be used on some bits of
the Europa as well.
Comments, suggestions?
all the best,
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had few
with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and found
his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low pressure
does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures in
any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct tyre
pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
Hi Jerry and Forum,
Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
(avoiding lower tyre pressure).
How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
away from home ?
... and how have you resolved the issue ?
Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
imagine being completely stuck !
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
few
with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and
found
his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low
pressure
does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures
in
any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct
tyre
pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it
up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I'd also be very interested to know if the automotive aerosol goop
emergency tire sealers work on the low-pressure mono tire.
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Mainwheel punctures
Hi Jerry and Forum,
Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
(avoiding lower tyre pressure).
How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
away from home ?
... and how have you resolved the issue ?
Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
imagine being completely stuck !
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
few
with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and
found
his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low
pressure
does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures
in
any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct
tyre
pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it
up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
Hi Miles,
I purchased a HVLP gun with 1.6 & 2 MM nozzles. So far I have only used for
smooth prime and it has worked very nicely. I have had no experience using
it with other paint types yet.
Regards, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Paint guns
Having worn out my old spray gun, I'm in the process of looking for a new
one... I'm considering HVLP, but find that those I talk to are 50/50 for and
against....
pros and cons of HVLP seem to be (1) much less overspray (2) harder to set
up (3) paint comes out less finely atomised and needs more time/thinners to
flow out....
Budget is up to about 150.
Initially it'll be used for painting ali and fabric (the Auster is in the
workshop for fuselage recovering) but no doubt it'll be used on some bits of
the Europa as well.
Comments, suggestions?
all the best,
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
This is to follow up on Rob Housman's treatise on procuring the
subject rivets. These are the little darlings which produce the captive nuts
for panels etc. and are really fun to accomplish.
In addition to Rob's advice for http://www.emhart.com , and the
other addresses, there is "Pop Fasteners", 9870 Boulevarde du Golf, Anjou,
QB, Canada H1J 2Y7 whose fax is 1-514-351-0458. I sent a fax enquiring
after the title rivets, and used my un-registered, un-licenced company name
as a contact. Three weeks later, I have received 50 rivets by courrier,
gratis - doubtless with the hope I will order thousands more for the series
production of the KYLAIR EUROPA MK.1.
Happy Landings
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
I hate to sound like I'm harping on with this one, but all these fears of
punctures are a very good reason for joining the Europa Club (if you're not
a member) and being able to take advantage of the Rescue Service - basically
an arrangement where nearby Europa owners put themselves forward as offering
help to stranded Europas. I for one am looking forward to flying G-EZZA
knowing that if I have a problem away from base, there is a very good chance
someone will be able to help me.
Imagine having a puncture while on a trip round France - a nightmare that
could happen to any of us. Imagine having a new monowheel
tube/tyre/whatever-it-is-I-haven't-built-that-part-yet sent straight to you
by the most appropriate means so that you can get on with your holiday and
back home safely.
Full details are on the Club web site at www.europaclub.org.uk. Follow the
'rescue service' link on the left.
Regards,
Jeremy
Europa XS Monosheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Mainwheel punctures
Hi Jerry and Forum,
Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
(avoiding lower tyre pressure).
How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
away from home ?
... and how have you resolved the issue ?
Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
imagine being completely stuck !
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
few
with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and
found
his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low
pressure
does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures
in
any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct
tyre
pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it
up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
I forgot to say - a set of suitable prop blades could well be available to
get you home if you had that prop strike you dread...
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Mainwheel punctures
I hate to sound like I'm harping on with this one, but all these fears of
punctures are a very good reason for joining the Europa Club (if you're not
a member) and being able to take advantage of the Rescue Service - basically
an arrangement where nearby Europa owners put themselves forward as offering
help to stranded Europas. I for one am looking forward to flying G-EZZA
knowing that if I have a problem away from base, there is a very good chance
someone will be able to help me.
Imagine having a puncture while on a trip round France - a nightmare that
could happen to any of us. Imagine having a new monowheel
tube/tyre/whatever-it-is-I-haven't-built-that-part-yet sent straight to you
by the most appropriate means so that you can get on with your holiday and
back home safely.
Full details are on the Club web site at www.europaclub.org.uk. Follow the
'rescue service' link on the left.
Regards,
Jeremy
Europa XS Monosheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Mainwheel punctures
Hi Jerry and Forum,
Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
(avoiding lower tyre pressure).
How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
away from home ?
... and how have you resolved the issue ?
Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
imagine being completely stuck !
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
few
with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and
found
his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low
pressure
does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures
in
any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct
tyre
pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it
up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | pa Tour of Ireland. May 2003 |
I am organising a 5/6 day trip around The Emerald Island for next year,
I have never been there before so I am open to suggestions for good
destinations.
It will be another six Europa squadron, so if you would like to join in
please put pur name forward early.
Once again. the intention is to allow plenty of time for things to go wrong,
and for relaxing in good company.
You wont need to be a flying ace!
If any of those famous Irish welcomes are still around, it would be nice to
hear from you. Be warned though, you could be dumped on by six europas!
Bryan Allsop G-BYSA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
If you get an HVLP system capable of handling two guns, you can put a "y" in the
air line and feed a forced air tyvek hood - thus providing fresh air (setting
the pump unit in clear air). A major advantage to the HVLP system for home use.
Have used this system many times and it works quite well. Both the hoods, Y
fittings and short air line, from the Y which hangs on your belt, to the hood
are available for this application.
Cleve Lee
A198 MonoXS, N396ST
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, "Paul McAllister" wrote:
>
> Hi Miles,
>
> I purchased a HVLP gun with 1.6 & 2 MM nozzles. So far I have only used for
> smooth prime and it has worked very nicely. I have had no experience using
> it with other paint types yet.
>
> Regards, Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Paint guns
>
>
> Having worn out my old spray gun, I'm in the process of looking for a new
> one... I'm considering HVLP, but find that those I talk to are 50/50 for and
> against....
>
> pros and cons of HVLP seem to be (1) much less overspray (2) harder to set
> up (3) paint comes out less finely atomised and needs more time/thinners to
> flow out....
>
> Budget is up to about 150.
>
> Initially it'll be used for painting ali and fabric (the Auster is in the
> workshop for fuselage recovering) but no doubt it'll be used on some bits of
> the Europa as well.
>
> Comments, suggestions?
>
> all the best,
>
> Miles
>
> The Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>;
>
>
>
> The Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>;
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Bryan,
I went for a weekend this year with some microlight buddies to the Irish
Parachute Club at Clonbollogue EICL. We got a fantastic welcome!! Free
welcome spirits, there is a comprehensive canteen on site and bar once the
para dropping is done for the day. Free camping was supplied or it was a 20
min walk to the nearest village and pub where we found a B&B for 20 Euros a
night. Fuel on site etc. This was arranged with a club member Paul McMahon
email address is gmmta(at)yahoo.co.uk.
I'm up for it!!
I found it was a very hand location.
Regards
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
I have had 4 punctures in our monowheel Classic, thankfully only one away
from home, the fix for which I wrote up in the Europa Club Newsletter some
time ago. Also thankfully all occured whilst parked or during taxi, although
I did observe Jim Naylor get one while landing at Laddingford and although
he stopped quite quickly he still maintained control.
Dave Watts G-BXDY
> Hi Jerry and Forum,
>
> Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
>
> I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
> (avoiding lower tyre pressure).
>
> How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
> away from home ?
>
> ... and how have you resolved the issue ?
>
> Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
> imagine being completely stuck !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
> I have no idea if low pressure
>does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures in
>any case.
>Jerry
You're right agin Jerry. It does. If the pressure is low and someone uses
hard braking the tyre may slip on the rim and drag the inner tube round,
either wearing it or pulling the valve out.
IMHO of course
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
No it wasn't a mono Europa but my comments would apply to the Tri. They were
comments though and not recommendations except I would recommend to anyone
they placard the tyre pressures somewhere.
Don't forget weather permitting we plan a Europa / Ban-bi Fly-In at Old
Sarum near Salisbury this Saturday. Once again the club has generously
offered free landings for type and they have an excellent restaurant. The
last Fly-In was a great success despite less than perfect weather.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Mainwheel punctures
>
> Hi Jerry and Forum,
>
> Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
>
> I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
> (avoiding lower tyre pressure).
>
> How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
> away from home ?
>
> ... and how have you resolved the issue ?
>
> Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
> imagine being completely stuck !
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
> few
> with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may know
> suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked and
> found
> his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if low
> pressure
> does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking the pressures
> in
> any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to writing my correct
> tyre
> pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I don't have to look it
> up.
>
> Jerry
> Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
> www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
> Subject:
>
>
> > What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
> had to
> > leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
> (Nose
> > wheel last time, starboard this time)
> >
> > Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> and
> a
> > main) and some tools to split the rims.
> >
> > I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
> >
> > Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
> spares/repair
> kit
> > and what is in it?
> >
> > Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> the
> > plane will be stuck there for a few days.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kev T
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)islandtelecom.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Tour of Ireland. May 2003 |
Bryan,
I went for a weekend this year with some microlight buddies to the Irish
Parachute Club at Clonbollogue EICL. We got a fantastic welcome!! Free
welcome spirits, there is a comprehensive canteen on site and bar once the
para dropping is done for the day. Free camping was supplied or it was a 20
min walk to the nearest village and pub where we found a B&B for 20 Euros a
night. Fuel on site etc. This was arranged with a club member Paul McMahon
email address is gmmta(at)yahoo.co.uk.
I'm up for it!!
I found it was a very hand location.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Europa Tour of Ireland. May 2003
I am organising a 5/6 day trip around The Emerald Island for next year,
I have never been there before so I am open to suggestions for good
destinations.
It will be another six Europa squadron, so if you would like to join in
please put pur name forward early.
Once again. the intention is to allow plenty of time for things to go wrong,
and for relaxing in good company.
You wont need to be a flying ace!
If any of those famous Irish welcomes are still around, it would be nice to
hear from you. Be warned though, you could be dumped on by six europas!
Bryan Allsop G-BYSA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
On aircraft with the brake slave cylinder in the original (bottom)
position, you could imagine that landing on a flat tyre would be quite a
nasty event. The tyre must quickly snag the brake cylinder with
potentially vicious results.
Apparently one solution is to move the monowheel brake cylinder to the
horizontal position but on some Europas insufficient rudder cable
clearance can prevent this - unless someone has come up with a neat
solution. Some mountain bikers fill their tubed tyres with some form of
self-healing foam - but is that a viable, permissible solution for an
aircraft?
Any views?
Best regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Mainwheel punctures
Hi Jerry and Forum,
Are you refering to a puncture on the mainwheel of the mono variant ?
I suspect not. Does your advice apply to this situation as well ?
(avoiding lower tyre pressure).
How many out there have suffered a mono mainwheel puncture, particularly
away from home ?
... and how have you resolved the issue ?
Like a random prop strike, it's one of the scenarios that I dread. I can
imagine being completely stuck !
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
One of my customers has had several punctures. The rest of us have had
few with more hours. Perhaps he chooses bad fields but someone who may
know suggested his punctures were due to low tyre pressures. He checked
and found his were low (not just the punctured one). I have no idea if
low pressure does make a tyre prone to puncture but its worth checking
the pressures in any case. Being a bit woolly on top I have taken to
writing my correct tyre pressures on the wheel rims in white paint so I
don't have to look it up.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had to
> leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair it!
(Nose
> wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
and
a
> main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
kit
> and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
the
> plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com> |
Stephan,
I thought of one of those and had a doubt that it wouldn't be strong enough
to blow up a flat tyre. I guess it must as they would be no good. Do you
have to lift the weight off the wheel in order for it to circulate evenly
around the tyre, to get it to inflate?
Daft thing is I have a can in my cupboard at the airfield, best I put it in
the Europa.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
Hi Kev,
I used to have a tire foam can like(http://www.dccarcare.com/wurthtire.html)
in my old Cherokee. I used it ones with great success. When my Europa
is finished I will have one can in the baggage department. That is for
sure.
Regards,
Stephan #556
> What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had
> to leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair
> it! (Nose wheel last time, starboard this time)
>
> Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> and a main) and some tools to split the rims.
>
> I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
>
> Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair
> kit and what is in it?
>
> Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> the plane will be stuck there for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Folks,
Ive resent the content of a couple of mails as my server appears not to have delivered
them I think.
Any of us here Europa owners fitted a Skydat either GX1 or 2?? Looks very comprehensive
for the money and a couple of friends that have them in Microlights are
very happy with them.
Anyone got any advice please on my radio installation. I have a Becker 3201 and
I tend to hear quite a bit of interference from other devices in the plane such
as the mages and VP prop. I want to try and solve it as it spoils the flight!
There is a suppressor fitted in line on the radio supply so any advice would be
gratefully appreciated. I did think it was the intercom as the noise went away
when it was switched off but today I realised the noise disappears when the
I/C is on but the radio is off.
One point I noticed is there is no squelch on the radio so cant try backing it
off.
Regards
Kev
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! All.
Save yourself a head ache! READ ALL ABOUT IT !
Make sure you think about the possibility of future removal of the trim
motor whilst you are assembling the super structure. Like some means of
restraining the screw heads on the back of the rear bulkhead.
Unless, of course in the XS build manual there is already instructions to
allow for this?!
Mine has to come out due to an intermittant refusal to reverse unless it is
travelled full distance.
It seems like the limit switches are faulty according to the Ray Allen
Company.
Oh Well ! just another 1/2 hour job!
Bob Harrison G-PTAG.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments Site |
Thank you for the confirmations. I have had a good go and got a couple of
manuals.
JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments Site
> Bob
>
> I just got there web page using this address.
>
> http://www.rkymtn.com/
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds WA 98020
> (425) 776-5555
> N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
>
>
> > I have tried several times over the past few days to get www.rkymtn.com
> but
> > the page has not been available.
> >
> > Have I got the wrong address or are they off line please anyone?
> >
> > JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on the
trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
Regards
Kev T
GOURO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Naylor" <jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
Yes, I can.
As Dave Watts mentioned earlier, I had a puncture on landing at Laddingford
just over a year ago. I was giving a lady her first experience of flying in
a light aircraft, on initial touch down all seemed normal, but within a few
meters I experience a rapid deceleration as if the brake was on.
Instinctively I checked the brake even though I was certain I had checked it
prior to landing.
I didn't realise it was a puncture immediately because the aircraft was
still tracking straight, but after a few more meters it dawn on me. The
thought of bits of prop blade flying off in different directions flashed
through my mind together with a shock loaded engine, ground loops etc. - its
amazing how much can flash through your mind in a couple of seconds! I even
had time to tell my passenger what had happened before we stopped, even
though it was the shortest ground run ever. All I could do was hold the
stick back and peddle like mad. Directional control was only lost a the last
moment and we managed to stay on the runway with no damage other than a
scrap tyre and tube the prop was unscathed. I'm not so sure it would have
been quite so un-dramatic if it had been on a hard runway but I think
providing you can avoid a ground loop and tip up, the prop would still
survive.
Fortunately there were plenty of people around to man handle the plane back
to the hangar, and with the aid of a spare tyre from Peter Kember a new tube
that I carried around with me and some lifting gear, and lots of help from
Dave Watts I was back in the air again within 2 Hours.
This little experience prompted the idea for the club Rescue Service. I was
lucky it happened at a Europa fly-in and there was plenty of help around,
but if I had been any where else it could have been a nightmare. I know at
least one other Europa with a puncture has been assisted by the Service
already. Thankfully punctures and other incidents are not too frequent on
Europas, but if you want a little extra comfort when you are away from base
it is available. Tubes and tyres are held in stock by the club ready for
your emergency, all you have to do is spend 15 on club membership. The
Rescue Service, Turing Kits, and loads of other benefits are all free to
members.
Jim Naylor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North Weald
Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat tyre.
The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big deal
- the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll. The
prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was concerned at
the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of lock wire that (I
assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys(at)att.com> |
In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel, and one
of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with a violent
shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem maintaining
directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively until the plane
slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain directional control.
With the landing blow out on the right main gear tire, I had already slowed
down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred. Maintaining directional
stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think what would have happened
if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In either situation, it's not a fun
experience.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North Weald
Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat tyre.
The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big deal
- the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll. The
prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was concerned at
the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of lock wire that (I
assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David DeFord" <davedeford(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Motor Removal. |
> Make sure you think about the possibility of future removal
> of the trim motor whilst you are assembling the super
> structure. Like some means of restraining the screw heads on
> the back of the rear bulkhead.
We used anchor nuts and socket-head screws on N135TD. It's a lot easier
to keep an allen wrench engaged in the screw head than a phillips
driver, when your arm is stuck through a small hole, and you can't see
the target. Fortunately, we haven't had to take advantage of our
precautions yet.
Dave DeFord
N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet part number? |
Thanks Rowland for a comprehensive answer!
I suspect the last, larger P-clip is an addition that did not make it to
the drawing or parts list.....it makes me wonder if anybody did fit one,
does the lower firewall segment rattle loose there?
Alex, kit 529.
Rowland & Wilma Carson wrote:
>
>> Does anybody here know if my manual got it wrong, it calls for
>> TLPK33BS rivets for the firewall anchornuts, but I don't think they
>> sent those rivets in the fuse kit?
>
>
> In my XS monowheel manual, on Page 23-4 Issue 2 (1-10-99) and Page
> 31-2 Issue 1 (31-10-97), Pop rivets TAPK33BS are incorrectly shown as
> TLPK33BS. I have pointed this out to Roger at the factory and it is
> due to be corrected at the next issue. My fuselage kit included 73 off
> Pop rivet 2.8mmD x 5.0mmL CSK [TAPK33BS].
>
>> I should also fit ''the P-clip'' (no p/n) on the lower cross-member
>> to fix the firewall to, but I see no other P-clip on the list of parts?
>
>
> I don't have my manual handy to check this, but my cross-reference
> database of parts and manual pages shows that the only p-clips called
> out in chapter 31 are 3 off P clip cushion clamp (MS21919WDG10)
> [MS21919-D10]. Mine were packed in the same box as the above pop rivets.
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
>
>
> | PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
> | Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
>
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
> Scan engine: VirusScan / Atualizado em 16/10/2002 / Verso: 1.3.13
> Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://www.emailprotegido.terra.com.br/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Clive,
Where did you obtain the "Y" fitting, Air Mask, etc.?
Thanks
Dale
#A140
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
Gary,
Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your experience
quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on paved
runways?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel, and
one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with a
violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear tire,
I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In either
situation, it's not a fun experience.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
Weald Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat
tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big
deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll.
The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | er pedals and their travels |
Cheers,
I put out a cry for rudr pedl travl details and received a
number of rapid replies for which I thank Graham, Tony, Alex, Pops, Gerry
and John.
Graham implored me not to add turnbuckles, then reminded me that his
prolific instructions already answered the question of travel. Tony gave me
a tip on turnbuckle clips which Alex added using a bent welding rod to hold
the 'eyes' while adjusting the barrel. Super ideas. Pops suggested his
method and the readings are:
A 3.5inches
B 2.5 inches
C 68mm
D turnbuckles 60mm ahead of the bulkhead which I took as aft blkhd.
Just goes to show the value of the net for unqualified builders
such as self. Many thanks to all.
Ferg (tailwheel installed and rigged on A064)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
The accounts of mono mainwheel punctures appear fairly reassuring.
Sounds like directional control is maintained until the end of the
landing run and the prop is relatively safe.
In terms of frequency it would appear that, though not common, they can
and do occur.
Obviously some form of weight bearing structure for the fuselage is
necessary to effect the tyre change.
It's reassuring to note that the Europa club offer the 'Rescue Service'.
I suspect that I haven't taken sufficient interest in this to date, and
that the more popular it becomes, the more able it will be to meet the
needs of those who face unforeseen problems both here in the UK, and in
Europe.
As a Europa pilot who is happy to report many successful trips over the
years to Scotland, Wales, The Channel Islands, France, Denmark, Holland,
Belgium and Switzerland, I feel that it's important that such a service
is supported by those of us with an interest in getting the most from
our aircraft.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
Rob,
We only supply "real" aircraft tires with our tri-gear kits, and all current
mono-wheel kits.
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
Gary,
Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your experience
quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on paved
runways?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel, and
one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with a
violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear tire,
I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In either
situation, it's not a fun experience.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
Weald Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat
tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big
deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll.
The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys(at)att.com> |
Ok, the blow outs were my fault! I have my main gear wheels very tightly cowled
such that you can't readily inspect the condition of the tires without removing
the wheel pants. I had let one of the tires wear beyond bald......where the
cords were showing through, but didn't know it. Eventually on one of my landings,
the tube poked through the tire, and that was that. My fault. Mea Culpa!........lesson
learned.
The nosewheel blowout is a little speculation on my part, but when I went to repair
the flat, I found the bolts securing the two halves of the wheel rim together........were
"loose". I surmised that upon first contact with the ground
on landing, the two halves separated just enough for the tube get inbetween the
two halves of the rim, and pinch a hole in the tube. When I inspected the tube,
sure enough the hole was on the inside diameter of the tube, right where
a pinching of the rims would occur. Again, my fault for not checking the tightness
of the wheel bolts.
The tires supplied by Europa are "middle grade".....not junk, but not premium either.
After wearing out the factory tires, I have upgraded to Goodyear premium
tires, and they seem to be wearing better. But......nothing to worry about
with the factory tires. They're just fine.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
Gary,
Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your experience
quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on paved
runways?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel, and
one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with a
violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear tire,
I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In either
situation, it's not a fun experience.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
Weald Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat
tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big
deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll.
The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
How safe is it to carry a pressurised tin of gung?
I only ask because it used to be common to see them strapped to the
handlebars of enduro bikes. It went out of favour due to the vibration
causing the cans to rupture; whereupon the contents made the most unholy
mess of everything around!
Duncan Mcf.
On Monday, October 21, 2002 1:02 PM, Kevin Taylor
[SMTP:kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com] wrote:
> Stephan,
>
> I thought of one of those and had a doubt that it wouldn't be strong
enough
> to blow up a flat tyre. I guess it must as they would be no good. Do you
> have to lift the weight off the wheel in order for it to circulate evenly
> around the tyre, to get it to inflate?
>
> Daft thing is I have a can in my cupboard at the airfield, best I put it
in
> the Europa.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> Hi Kev,
>
> I used to have a tire foam can
like(http://www.dccarcare.com/wurthtire.html)
> in my old Cherokee. I used it ones with great success. When my Europa
> is finished I will have one can in the baggage department. That is for
> sure.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephan #556
>
>
> > What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and had
> > to leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair
> > it! (Nose wheel last time, starboard this time)
> >
> > Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> > and a main) and some tools to split the rims.
> >
> > I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
> >
> > Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency spares/repair
> > kit and what is in it?
> >
> > Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> > the plane will be stuck there for a few days.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kev T
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
> >
>
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
It would be interesting to know which type of tyre was involved in each of
the incidences. The "aircraft" type generally have stiffer walls, despite
the ply rating,possibly resulting those staying more symmetrical to the
rim.
Duncan Mcf.
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002 4:00 PM, Mark Waite
[SMTP:Mark@europa-aircraft.com] wrote:
> > Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> > experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened
please?
>
>
> I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years
North Weald Aerofair.
>
> I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely
flat tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't
a big deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short
ground roll. The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground
(though I was concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a
stiff piece of lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my
departure airfield.
>
> Regards
> Mark Waite
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site, and
just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In particular, I'd
really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences about
why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include these
recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or Club)
mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we started
building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and why. Please
help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details of your mods as
examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the number of 'has anyone
done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does acetone
at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free - although they
don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa builders knowing
about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even if it's just a local
one-man-band who does upholstery, or aviation-standard welding, please let
me have details, wherever you are in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of the
suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need help
making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and fliers. So
please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or 'on the
Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
| Subject: | ue Service [was: no subject] |
>I'm not sure who what or where this is
The Europa Rescue Service is a network of volunteer Club members who
are willing to help other members having mechanical problems at
nearby airfields. You can get in touch with your nearest volunteer by
phoning any Committee member (the list is inside the front cover of
every Europa Flyer). Alll Committee members have up-to-date lists of
volunteers worldwide (it would be very costly to distribute updated
copies of that list to every member as it changes regularly).
Remember though that those participating are VOLUNTEERS and are doing
this as a service to the community, and be considerate in your
expectations! Think about what out-of-pocket expenses you may be
causing them ....
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
At the risk of seeming nit-picking, can I just correct one small detail. The
Rescue Service is intended to be global rather than European. Obviously at
the moment it _is_ more likely to be of use in the UK and Europe where the
density of Europa owners is greater (hmmm - there are two ways of reading
that last bit :-) ), but the more people who sign up to offer assistance
when possible, the better. I for one would love to see this become highly
effective around the world, and the example that all other aircraft type
clubs base their service on.
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
The accounts of mono mainwheel punctures appear fairly reassuring.
Sounds like directional control is maintained until the end of the
landing run and the prop is relatively safe.
In terms of frequency it would appear that, though not common, they can
and do occur.
Obviously some form of weight bearing structure for the fuselage is
necessary to effect the tyre change.
It's reassuring to note that the Europa club offer the 'Rescue Service'.
I suspect that I haven't taken sufficient interest in this to date, and
that the more popular it becomes, the more able it will be to meet the
needs of those who face unforeseen problems both here in the UK, and in
Europe.
As a Europa pilot who is happy to report many successful trips over the
years to Scotland, Wales, The Channel Islands, France, Denmark, Holland,
Belgium and Switzerland, I feel that it's important that such a service
is supported by those of us with an interest in getting the most from
our aircraft.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
Not to put too fine a point on it, John, but the Aircraft Spruce catalog
describes the nose wheel tire as filling "...the gap between the 5.00-5
aircraft tire and the 3.40-5 industrial tire" which I take to mean that it
is not a "real" aircraft tire. Having pinched the tube on my first attempt
at assembly, I found that the same size tube is also available from garden
supply shops and from Sears for riding lawn mowers (but I bought one from
ACS).
The mains are unquestionably real.
More importantly, Gary's response put my mind at ease. (Thanks Gary.)
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Europa Aircraft
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
Rob,
We only supply "real" aircraft tires with our tri-gear kits, and all current
mono-wheel kits.
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
Gary,
Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your experience
quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on paved
runways?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel, and
one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with a
violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear tire,
I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In either
situation, it's not a fun experience.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
Weald Aerofair.
I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely flat
tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a big
deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground roll.
The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure airfield.
Regards
Mark Waite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
I am using a Garmin 295 and it is mounted on a pedestal on top of the tunnel
in front of the brake handle. Works well there and uses the regular
attached antenna. It plugs into a nearby cigarette lighter socket.
Ken Carpenter N9XS Mono 914
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on
the trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
Regards
Kev T
GOURO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
I am having the same reaction as Rob. In 50years of flying general aviation
planes, about 3500 hours, I have never had a flat tire. That includes some
flying with tires showing cord. Are our Europa tires of poor quality and
need replacement?
Ken Carpenter N9XS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Gary,
>
> Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
> during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
> on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your
experience
> quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
> and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
> the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on
paved
> runways?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
> Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
>
> In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel,
and
> one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with
a
> violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
> maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
> until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
> directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear
tire,
> I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
> Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
> what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In
either
> situation, it's not a fun experience.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
>
>
> > Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> > experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
>
>
> I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
> Weald Aerofair.
>
> I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely
flat
> tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a
big
> deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground
roll.
> The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
> concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
> lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure
airfield.
>
> Regards
> Mark Waite
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
How about the tires on mono kits of four years ago.
Ken Carpenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
> Rob,
>
> We only supply "real" aircraft tires with our tri-gear kits, and all
current
> mono-wheel kits.
>
> John Hurst
> Europa Aircraft
> Lakeland, FL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
>
>
> Gary,
>
> Having "tested" the tires on several Cessna 152s while learning to land
> during primary training (and I'll admit to a few additional "tests" later
> on), and having never damaged any tires or aircraft, I find your
experience
> quite worrisome. Were these tire failures with the factory supplied tires
> and tubes from the third world, or with real aircraft tires and tubes (on
> the mains, anyway)? And, were the failures during normal landings on
paved
> runways?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Behalf Of STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2
> Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
>
> In my trigear, I have experienced a tire blow out on both the nosewheel,
and
> one of the maingear wheels. The nosewheel blow out was quite severe with
a
> violent shimmy that I thought would shake the plane to pieces. No problem
> maintaining directional control however, as I used the rudder effectively
> until the plane slowed down and then used differential braking to maintain
> directional control. With the landing blow out on the right main gear
tire,
> I had already slowed down to about 15 kts when the blow out occurred.
> Maintaining directional stability was a real struggle. I shudder to think
> what would have happened if it blew out right at touchdown speed. In
either
> situation, it's not a fun experience.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: Mainwheel punctures
>
>
> > Alan, raises a good question about the monowheel - can anyone who has
> > experienced a monowheel puncture on touch-down say what happened please?
>
>
> I experienced a monowheel (G-GBXS) puncture on arrival at last years North
> Weald Aerofair.
>
> I landed on the concrete runway with, what must have been, a completely
flat
> tyre. The experience was strange but I can honestly say that it wasn't a
big
> deal - the aircraft tracked straight and true with a very short ground
roll.
> The prop was never in any danger of striking the ground (though I was
> concerned at the time) and the culprit turned out to be a stiff piece of
> lock wire that (I assume) must have been picked up at my departure
airfield.
>
> Regards
> Mark Waite
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint guns & HVLP |
Dale,
Back in April of '92, when I was rebuilding/recovering my Emeraude, I purchased
a Croix CX-9 Turbine, 25 extra feet of hose (to put the unit outside the spray
area), a Willson 'head gear' with a 1.2 needle nozzle and .07 aircap.
I was spraying Hipec (Endura is the industrial name for the paint - Canadian
supplier)
In 10 years of flying I've not had one flex of paint come loose from the plane.
But I digress.
The supplier back then for the spray system and components was Aircraft
Restoration Supplies out of Elko MN. Their phone number was 612-461-2224 or
800-325-5464. I just checked the 800 number at 8:00 pm and got a 'please leave
a message at the tone' - so don't know if it is current or not.
Hope this helps.
Cleve
A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300 N396ST
Detroit, MI
>
> Clive,
> Where did you obtain the "Y" fitting, Air Mask, etc.?
> Thanks
> Dale
> #A140
> The Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>;
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
Hi All, Has anyone installed one of these systems in their Europa? I saw
Steve D's way to go before the cockpit module is in, very nicely done, but
my module is in. I'm pretty sold on this outfit and am looking for the slick
install.
Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint guns & HVLP |
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Cleve,
Thanks for the info. I'll try to contact them.. I also have a Croix
sprayer but it only has one air outlet. My main need is the mask. Did
you use the HVLP sprayer for the solvent based paint?
Thanks again.
Dale
Tri-gear XS/ J3300
N176DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray M. Knapp" <rmkhomes(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
Jeremy:
On the note of reducing the "has anyone done ..." questions, I'm
a soon-to-be new builder and really enjoy the obvious utility of this
forum. But I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
questions I'm likely to ask. Any suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Web Site links
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In
particular, I'd really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences
about why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include
these recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or
Club) mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we
started building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and
why. Please help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details
of your mods as examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the
number of 'has anyone done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does
acetone at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free -
although they don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa
builders knowing about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even
if it's just a local one-man-band who does upholstery, or
aviation-standard welding, please let me have details, wherever you are
in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of
the suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need
help making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and
fliers. So please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or
'on the Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Ray, the excellent tool you need is:
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan/europa_forum.html
Andrew has done us a great service!
Cheers
Pete
A239 - also soon to begin :-)
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Jeremy:
On the note of reducing the "has anyone done ..." questions, I'm
a soon-to-be new builder and really enjoy the obvious utility of this
forum. But I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
questions I'm likely to ask. Any suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Web Site links
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In
particular, I'd really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences
about why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include
these recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or
Club) mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we
started building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and
why. Please help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details
of your mods as examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the
number of 'has anyone done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does
acetone at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free -
although they don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa
builders knowing about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even
if it's just a local one-man-band who does upholstery, or
aviation-standard welding, please let me have details, wherever you are
in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of
the suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need
help making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and
fliers. So please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or
'on the Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerald Rehn" <rehn(at)rockisland.com> |
I used the dash mounting bracket included in the 295 package. The bracket
was secured to a plate which was secured over the radio "stack". I made a
template in the shape of the face of the 295 with room for a rubber grommet
to fit around the panel edge to protect and help secure the front of the
295. I can reach behind the panel to remove the 295 because of the brackets
locking device, pull it to the rear and turn and remove the unit thru the
front of the panel. I get access to the rear by removing my EIS, radio and
transponder which are below and in the same stack. I used the remote anten.
which is mounted insde the panel also.The unit is very secure and works
well. Hope this is of some help. Regards, Jerry Rehn XS914 Mono
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Taylor <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on
the trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
Regards
Kev T
GOURO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
...... to minimize the dumb questions I'm likely to ask.
No question is ever dumb. It just means you haven't had the opportunity
to learn the answer yet.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Kevin,
Yes, I mounted my GPS Garmin 295 within the Avionics Panel. I have a separate Avonics
panel which is removable to allow for easy access to
the instruments.
To secure the GPS, I moulded a stainless steel band around the back of the GPS
connected to one of the mounting frames they give you. The
stainless steel is then connected to the separate Aluminum Avionics Panel with
a hole cut to the size of the front of the GPS plus 2 mm.
You therefore have a near flush mounting and easily removable.
I have a direct 12v connection for the power input as well as a connection to
update the GPS from my laptop by the tray of the I/F panel.
Aerial is on top of the I/F Panel.
Cheers,
Tim
Kevin Taylor wrote:
> Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on the
trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> GOURO
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 03 3515166
email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
Jeremy
Most of our Europas in Australia would be built under the auspices of the
Sport Aircraft Assn of Australia ------ www.saaa.com E-mail
enquiries(at)saaa.com
Other sites:-
Civil Aviation Safety Authority of Australia www.casa.gov.au
Australian Ultralight Federation of Australia www.auf.asn.au and email
admin(at)auf.asn.au
JR (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Web Site links
> I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and
> just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In particular, I'd
> really appreciate any the following:
snipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)islandtelecom.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit lights |
Gerry,
I've been trying the number 001 847 683 1319 and all I get is a permanent
engaged signal (as we know it in the uk)
Any ideas
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Cockpit lights
Kevin Hi!
These Spot Lights no longer 'stocked by ACS are from a Company called:
R. V. Redmer
19N831 Big Timber Road
Hampshire
IL 60140
USA
Tel No: +1 847 683 1319
The Model No: 300A Spot Light Red 14VDC
> All,
>
> Went to the site to order the lights and following a conversation with
> them
> they are no longer doing these cockpit lights! Dam it.
>
> Kev T
>
Regards
Gerry
EuropaTrigear 384
G-FIZY
Tel No: +44 7808 402404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
Ray,
There is such a beast (courtesy of Andrew Sarangan), as well as a list of
FAQs that are very helpful to builders. Links to both are on the Club web
site at www.europaclub.org.uk - follow the link to the Forum page.
The Club also has an excellent booklet gathering together the best hints and
tips, compiled by Dave Watts, with entries coming from the Forum, the
factory newsletter, and the Club magazine "Europa Flyer". As a new builder 6
months ago, I found it very useful indeed - it flagged some difficulties I
wouldn't have known to look for a solution for until too late!
One of the most time-consuming problems I had initially was finding
suppliers for all the little extras - acetone, mask and filters, Tyvek paper
overalls, paper roll, syringes, etc. I'm putting my UK list of these up on
the Club site ASAP, and hope those in other countries will respond to my
call and help out with their lists.
The two real pains to date have been acetone - in the UK most suppliers
won't sell to individuals because they perceive a liability risk - and empty
mastic/caulking tubes for the big Redux jobs. I spent 3 hours the other day
just sourcing the tubes (and they had a minimum order size of GBP20, so if
anyone in the Oxfordshire area needs some, get in touch!).
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Jeremy:
On the note of reducing the "has anyone done ..." questions, I'm
a soon-to-be new builder and really enjoy the obvious utility of this
forum. But I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
questions I'm likely to ask. Any suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Web Site links
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In
particular, I'd really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences
about why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include
these recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or
Club) mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we
started building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and
why. Please help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details
of your mods as examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the
number of 'has anyone done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does
acetone at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free -
although they don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa
builders knowing about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even
if it's just a local one-man-band who does upholstery, or
aviation-standard welding, please let me have details, wherever you are
in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of
the suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need
help making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and
fliers. So please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or
'on the Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys(at)att.com> |
Just recently, after 220 hours of operation, my Rotax 914 began "dieseling" after
shut down. Never happened before, but now does it every time. I know that
dieseling is caused by a "hot spot" somewhere in the combustion chambers, but
where and why escapes me. I've pulled the spark plugs and aside from having
some gray lead deposits on them, they look fine. I plan to replace the plugs,
but doubt that they are the cause. Interestingly, the dieseling doesn't require
a really hot engine. A few days ago I started the engine and taxied 100 yards
to the fuel pumps. At shut down the engine dieseled.........and we know
the engine hadn't yet even warmed up. I've checked the mag grounding connections,
and they work fine. It is definitely a dieseling condition. Anyone out
there experienced this and what conclusions did you reach?
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch> |
Kevin,
Some days ago I finished an aluminum support bracket for my Garmin 195. The bracket
will be installed behind a hole in the radio panel and form a recess, in
which the Garmin will be placed and can easily be removed. The original Garmin
data and power cable will hook the GPS to the other goodies like the autopilot.
A similar solution for the 295 should be possible.
Alfred
#097 Monowheel HB-YKI 80 % finished, 60 % to do
>>> kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net 10/23 1:45 >>>
I am using a Garmin 295 and it is mounted on a pedestal on top of the tunnel
in front of the brake handle. Works well there and uses the regular
attached antenna. It plugs into a nearby cigarette lighter socket.
Ken Carpenter N9XS Mono 914
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject:
Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on
the trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
Regards
Kev T
GOURO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Dieseling |
Hi! Garry.
The effect is "pre-ignition" mostly caused by glowing carbon in the
cylinders. IMHO I would think it is due to running too rich and so having a
build up of carbon which will have small blobs that glow which ignite the
incoming charge of mixture. You need to address the problem because it could
cause a damaged con rod etc.
Are you running on Avgas or Unleaded Mogas ? I would try a change or even a
mix to see if it cleans out and stops. Of course I don't profess to speak
with any authority on a Rotax Installation.!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Rotax 914 Dieseling
Just recently, after 220 hours of operation, my Rotax 914 began "dieseling"
after shut down. Never happened before, but now does it every time. I know
that dieseling is caused by a "hot spot" somewhere in the combustion
chambers, but where and why escapes me. I've pulled the spark plugs and
aside from having some gray lead deposits on them, they look fine. I plan
to replace the plugs, but doubt that they are the cause. Interestingly, the
dieseling doesn't require a really hot engine. A few days ago I started the
engine and taxied 100 yards to the fuel pumps. At shut down the engine
dieseled.........and we know the engine hadn't yet even warmed up. I've
checked the mag grounding connections, and they work fine. It is definitely
a dieseling condition. Anyone out there experienced this and what
conclusions did you reach?
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tru-Trak autopilot |
Hi Kevin
I have installed the TruTrack in my XS that had the module already
installed. It was easy to do and is completely out of the way. I have
photos some where.
Tom Friedland XS mono N96V
beecho@pw-x.com
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Tru-Trak autopilot
Hi All, Has anyone installed one of these systems in their Europa? I
saw
Steve D's way to go before the cockpit module is in, very nicely done,
but
my module is in. I'm pretty sold on this outfit and am looking for the
slick
install.
Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
Does anyone know what the gear ratio of the accessory drive is on the
914 in relation to the propellor or engine RPMSteve HagarA143Mesa, AZ---
Steve Hagar--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals and their travels |
Ferg and all,
Another thought for the stab counterweight cables, you say you are
thinking of putting turnbuckles to enable adjustment.
I found when crimping the sleeves, that it was very difficult to get the
same tension on the two sides to center the arm.
But instead of adding the weight of the turnbuckles, I turned the cable
where it loops around the shaft just the little bit it needed to center
the arm and secured the cable with a few loops of lockwire between the
cable and the pin that holds the nylon bush.
Alex, kit 529.
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>Cheers,
> I put out a cry for rudr pedl travl details and received a
>number of rapid replies for which I thank Graham, Tony, Alex, Pops, Gerry
>and John.
>Graham implored me not to add turnbuckles, then reminded me that his
>prolific instructions already answered the question of travel. Tony gave me
>a tip on turnbuckle clips which Alex added using a bent welding rod to hold
>the 'eyes' while adjusting the barrel. Super ideas. Pops suggested his
>method and the readings are:
>A 3.5inches
>B 2.5 inches
>C 68mm
>D turnbuckles 60mm ahead of the bulkhead which I took as aft blkhd.
>
> Just goes to show the value of the net for unqualified builders
>such as self. Many thanks to all.
>Ferg (tailwheel installed and rigged on A064)
>
>
>Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
>Scan engine: VirusScan / Atualizado em 16/10/2002 / Verso: 1.3.13
>Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://www.emailprotegido.terra.com.br/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru-Trak autopilot |
Hi Tom, I'd love to see your photos. Are you flying it yet?
Kevin A211 XS Mono
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Thomas Friedland
Subject: Re: Tru-Trak autopilot
Hi Kevin
I have installed the TruTrack in my XS that had the module already
installed. It was easy to do and is completely out of the way. I have
photos some where.
Tom Friedland XS mono N96V
beecho@pw-x.com
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Tru-Trak autopilot
Hi All, Has anyone installed one of these systems in their Europa? I
saw
Steve D's way to go before the cockpit module is in, very nicely done,
but
my module is in. I'm pretty sold on this outfit and am looking for the
slick
install.
Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Dieseling |
Garry,
Here in Brazil most owners use Avgas, as Mogas here contains some 25%
alcohol and is not recommended for the Rotax.
(But some owners still prefer to use Mogas due to the price and the
lower content of lead.)
This means that they have to replace the oil at a higher frequency than
otherwise to avoid build-up of lead and still have to remove a lot of
lead deposits, perhaps this is the same problem as yours?
Another point where many go wrong is when checking the ground for the
magneto, when turning the magswitch to off, there must be continuity
from the primary coil to ground through the switch to keep the spark
current from being generated in the secondary coil.
I may well be pointing out the obvious, just to be sure to be sure...
Alex, kit 529.
STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2 wrote:
>Just recently, after 220 hours of operation, my Rotax 914 began "dieseling" after
shut down. Never happened before, but now does it every time. I know that
dieseling is caused by a "hot spot" somewhere in the combustion chambers, but
where and why escapes me. I've pulled the spark plugs and aside from having
some gray lead deposits on them, they look fine. I plan to replace the plugs,
but doubt that they are the cause. Interestingly, the dieseling doesn't require
a really hot engine. A few days ago I started the engine and taxied 100
yards to the fuel pumps. At shut down the engine dieseled.........and we know
the engine hadn't yet even warmed up. I've checked the mag grounding connections,
and they work fine. It is definitely a dieseling condition. Anyone out
there experienced this and what conclusions did you reach?
>
>Garry V. Stout
>
>District Manager, AT&T Business Services
>Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
>*****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
>Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
>Scan engine: VirusScan / Atualizado em 16/10/2002 / Verso: 1.3.13
>Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://www.emailprotegido.terra.com.br/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Sue" <Billandsueb(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Tru-Trak autopilot |
Kevin,
We too are planning to install the Tru-Trak Digitrak in our trigear and were
working up a mod for sumission to the PFA to that effect.
We had planned to install the Navaid device but were rather put off by the
long delivery dates, reports of indifferent quality and a very uninterested
response from the makers when we rang them for information.
The response form TruTrak could not have been be more diffferent, our only
concern was the residual torque which appears not to be a problem (talking
to Steve Dunsmuir who is installing one in N59XS)
Like us, Steve is some way from flying and, apart from what he told us about
his installation, all the information we have so far is secondhand. So we
would be delighted to hear from anyone else with first-hand experience of
the device!
Of course, if our mod gets accepted, we I will offer the notes to the club
in case anyone is crazy enough to want to copy our handiwork!
Cheers
Bill & Sue (465)
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Tru-Trak autopilot
Hi All, Has anyone installed one of these systems in their Europa? I saw
Steve D's way to go before the cockpit module is in, very nicely done, but
my module is in. I'm pretty sold on this outfit and am looking for the slick
install.
Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum drive ratio |
Per the Rotax 914 Operator Manual, OM Initial Issue, Dec 01/98, page 9-10
(available at http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm):
"Transmission ratio between crankshaft and hydraulic governor or vacuum pump
is 1,842 i.e. the speed of the hydraulic governor or vacuum pump is 0,54 of
engine speed."
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Subject: Vacuum drive ratio
Does anyone know what the gear ratio of the accessory drive is on the
914 in relation to the propellor or engine RPM Steve HagarA143Mesa, AZ ---
Steve Hagar--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <tgynz(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | fouled cylinders ? |
If your dieseling is being caused by lead deposits, etc.,
(IMHO)
run your engine until it's good and hot,
then,
if you have the nerve,
at the top of a full wind out, 5800 rpm?
with throttle still wide open,
evenly pour, at the same time, about a half pint of cold
distilled water into the each of the carburetors,
This will thermally shock all the crap off of your valves
and pistons and etc.
Dual carbs is a bit tricky.
Single carburetor is easy.
You want the engine to flood smoothly to prevent torsional
extremes on the crank etc.
You don't want to flood it dead.
Rev it up again and watch the exhaust.
Usually results in cloud of steam and a puddle of goo onto
the driveway.
I've done this before every oil change and tune up on all of
my cars.
These include air-cooled VW, Porsche, Chevy V8, Dodge 4 cyl
minivan, etc.
Cylinder inspection scope reveals "shiny" clean condition
afterwards.
I took the head off my minivan, which I flog it like a mule,
for a 200,000 mile head job.
Slick 50 in the oil, and water "steam" cleaning - like new.
WOW.
I expect another 200,000 mile on this engine.
Maybe MoGas would be easier.
Nic, xs145 :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals and their travels |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>>>But instead of adding the weight of the turnbuckles, I turned the
cable
where it loops around the shaft just the little bit it needed to center
the arm and secured the cable with a few loops of lockwire between the
cable and the pin that holds the nylon bush.
Please check with Andy at Europa on this. Where the kit specifies that
that a cable should be nicopress sleeved I would approach any other
means of securing with great caution.
Regards
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals and their travels |
>>>But instead of adding the weight of the turnbuckles, I turned the
cable
where it loops around the shaft just the little bit it needed to center
the arm and secured the cable with a few loops of lockwire between the
cable and the pin that holds the nylon bush.
Of course if you mean that the cable is still secured with nicopress
sleeves but is tensioned with lockwire then you can ignore the nicopress
sleeve question and ask him if safety wire is enough to tension the arm.
:-)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | transfer lettering |
Hi all,
Any suggestions on where I can buy dry transfer lettering in the US. I seem to
recollect being able to buy a product called Chartpack when I lived in Oz, but
I haven't been able to find any here.
Thanks & regards,
Paul http://europa363.versadev.com
PS. For those who occasionally browse my web site I have updated it at long last
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry transfer lettering |
Paul,
I have dry transfer lettering in several styles in my store. I also sell
clear decal film you can run through a laser printer and make your own
decals - perfect for panel lettering.
Bob Jacobsen
Galaxy Hobby
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
>Subject: Dry transfer lettering
>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:00:13 -0500
>
>Hi all,
>
>Any suggestions on where I can buy dry transfer lettering in the US. I
>seem to recollect being able to buy a product called Chartpack when I lived
>in Oz, but I haven't been able to find any here.
>
>Thanks & regards,
>
>
>Paul http://europa363.versadev.com
>
>PS. For those who occasionally browse my web site I have updated it at
>long last .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum drive ratio |
Check out the thread on the forum archives
"Speeding up the Rotax 914 Vacuum Pump PTO".
There I write that the 914 Vacuum Pump PTO:Engine RPM ratio is 0.54:1.
This is too slow for full output of a gear driven alternator designed for
Lycoming PTOs -
one would need a 0.7:1 gear ratio for that.
You can also download the 914 operator's manual from http://kodiakbs.com
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Vacuum drive ratio
> Does anyone know what the gear ratio of the accessory drive is on the
> 914 in relation to the propellor or engine RPM Steve HagarA143Mesa, AZ ---
> Steve Hagar--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry transfer lettering |
Paul.
You might try http://www.beldecal.com/index.html.
Paul McAllister wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Any suggestions on where I can buy dry transfer lettering in the US. I seem
to recollect being able to buy a product called Chartpack when I lived in Oz,
but I haven't been able to find any here.
>
> Thanks & regards,
>
> Paul http://europa363.versadev.com
>
> PS. For those who occasionally browse my web site I have updated it at long
last .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | he subject of tyres |
Hi All
We are getting very close now to finishing (well thats what I keep telling
myself) and as a result, I would like some opinions on the suitability of the
original mono wheel tyre.
We still have the original tyre. Should we get it changed for the type that
Europa is currenty stocking. Is the old type unsafe? Indeed why did Europa feel
that they had to change the type of tyre they supplied
And if the overall opinion is that we should replace the old tyre, what should
we replace it with, and where should we purchase it from.
Regards
Eddie
SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup
Europa Mk1 Jabiru 3300
---------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.easynetdial.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Message text written by "R.C.Harrison"
>Make sure you think about the possibility of future removal of the trim
motor whilst you are assembling the super structure. Like some means of
restraining the screw heads on the back of the rear bulkhead.
Unless, of course in the XS build manual there is already instructions to
allow for this?!<
As well as the above the upper attachment bolts are very inaccessible. To
ease removal and refitting the upper bolts can be replaced by a captive
cover. The motor is slid into position from below and retained in this
position using just the lower bolts. A plug socket arrangement (with
locking tab) enables rapid electrical connection. Not an easy job to do
retrospectively so best thought about before the fuselage top goes on.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mainwheel punctures |
Message text written by "Roger Mills"
>Apparently one solution is to move the monowheel brake cylinder to the
horizontal position but on some Europas insufficient rudder cable
clearance can prevent this - unless someone has come up with a neat
solution. <
I moved the brake cylinder to the nearly horizontal position (actual
position limited in my case by the tunnel wall) and redrilled the torque
plate (LG21) to maintain alignment. It has been working fine for about a
year like this and fortunately no punctures so far.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
Eddie,
The original tyre had only marginal clearance from my landing gear and
used to rub when cornering so I changed to the Air Trac tyres Europa now
supply. The Air Tracs seem to have stiffer sidewalls and give slightly
better directional control than the original tyres IMHO.
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: On the subject of tyres
Hi All
We are getting very close now to finishing (well thats what I keep
telling
myself) and as a result, I would like some opinions on the suitability
of the
original mono wheel tyre.
We still have the original tyre. Should we get it changed for the type
that
Europa is currenty stocking. Is the old type unsafe? Indeed why did
Europa feel
that they had to change the type of tyre they supplied
And if the overall opinion is that we should replace the old tyre, what
should
we replace it with, and where should we purchase it from.
Regards
Eddie
SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup
Europa Mk1 Jabiru 3300
---------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.easynetdial.co.uk
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr(at)growzone.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Dieseling |
Garry,
> You wrote: my Rotax 914 began "dieseling" after shut down ..............
I don't profess to be an expert on this but I did have a car which did this
a lot.
Some cars have solenoid operated valves to shut off the fuel supply to the
idle jet on engine switch off and I have also seen a solenoid operated valve
which admitted air directly into the intake manifold on switch off so the
phenomenon is not unknown in the motor car world.
Don't know if the 914 has any such valve on the carby and I suspect not. I
would however, ensure that the idle speed is not set too high because I
found my car was very sensitive to idle speed.
Not too much help I know but nevertheless ..........
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Mono Classic 281 in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: : Re: Rudder pedals and their travels] |
....not quite so, the tension is merely adjusted a tad by rotating the
loop a few degrees- friction between cable and nylon sleeve holds it in
place and the lockwire makes sure it won't slide back....
In the worst case the wire breaks and allows the arm to go a few mm's
off to the side..
Alex
Tony S. Krzyzewski wrote:
>
>
>Of course if you mean that the cable is still secured with nicopress
>sleeves but is tensioned with lockwire then you can ignore the nicopress
>sleeve question and ask him if safety wire is enough to tension the arm.
>:-)
>
>Tony
>
>Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
>Scan engine: VirusScan / Atualizado em 16/10/2002 / Verso: 1.3.13
>Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://www.emailprotegido.terra.com.br/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dry transfer lettering |
In a message dated 10/23/02 9:02:19 PM, paul.mcallister(at)qia.net writes:
<< Any suggestions on where I can buy dry transfer lettering in the US. I
seem to recollect being able to buy a product called Chartpack when I lived
in Oz, but I haven't been able to find any here.
Thanks & regards,
Paul http://europa363.versadev.com >>
Most art supply stores carry ChartPack or similar. Also, sign shops will
create preset dry transfer vinyl letters which are more durable and very easy
to apply neatly.
John Hanna A128 N741JH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Simpson" <dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net> |
I've heard of another problem with the squirty stuff too. A friend who used
it to repair a puncture in his Balerit microlight, found unacceptable
vibration on take off due to the uneven distribution of the gunge around the
inside of the tube. He had to throw away the tube and replace it with a
new one.
It is possible that this problem could be obviated by slow rotation of the
wheel during cure to help uniform distribution of the stuff.
Dave Simpson
----- Original Message -----
From: McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re:
> How safe is it to carry a pressurised tin of gung?
> I only ask because it used to be common to see them strapped to the
> handlebars of enduro bikes. It went out of favour due to the vibration
> causing the cans to rupture; whereupon the contents made the most unholy
> mess of everything around!
>
> Duncan Mcf.
>
> On Monday, October 21, 2002 1:02 PM, Kevin Taylor
> [SMTP:kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com] wrote:
> > Stephan,
> >
> > I thought of one of those and had a doubt that it wouldn't be strong
> enough
> > to blow up a flat tyre. I guess it must as they would be no good. Do you
> > have to lift the weight off the wheel in order for it to circulate
evenly
> > around the tyre, to get it to inflate?
> >
> > Daft thing is I have a can in my cupboard at the airfield, best I put it
> in
> > the Europa.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kev T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> > Hi Kev,
> >
> > I used to have a tire foam can
> like(http://www.dccarcare.com/wurthtire.html)
> > in my old Cherokee. I used it ones with great success. When my Europa
> > is finished I will have one can in the baggage department. That is for
> > sure.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Stephan #556
> >
> >
> > > What a bugger I had my second puncture in a fortnight yesterday and
had
> > > to leave the plane as I didn't have the tools or inner tube to repair
> > > it! (Nose wheel last time, starboard this time)
> > >
> > > Something tells me its time to carry spare tubes (x2 one for the nose
> > > and a main) and some tools to split the rims.
> > >
> > > I bet once I carry these tools Ill not get another puncture for years!
> > >
> > > Interested to hear if anyone else is carrying a emergency
spares/repair
> > > kit and what is in it?
> > >
> > > Annoyingly the weather has turned bad here today and so it looks like
> > > the plane will be stuck there for a few days.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Kev T
> > > ---
> > > Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
> >
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>>>>The original tyre had only marginal clearance from my landing gear
and
used to rub when cornering so I changed to the Air Trac tyres Europa now
supply. The Air Tracs seem to have stiffer sidewalls and give slightly
better directional control than the original tyres IMHO.
I'll second that. We found that the Airtrac 800 x 6 also rubbed a bit so
went for the 700 x 6 in the end which has good clearance from the swing
arm.
You need to retain the Europa inner tube as the airtrac inner tube wont
fit the Europa wheel casting. Anyone want an airtrac 700/800 x 6 inner
tube?
Both of the airtracs are better on the ground than the original tyre.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dry transfer lettering |
From a thread a few months ago, I purchased from BEL Inc. (phone 305-593-0911.
through the web Ink Jet clar Decal paper. So you can do custom graphics or
perfectly aligned lettering. Havn't used it yet, but looking forward to doing
so.
Cleve Lee
A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300
>
>
> In a message dated 10/23/02 9:02:19 PM, paul.mcallister(at)qia.net writes:
>
> << Any suggestions on where I can buy dry transfer lettering in the US. I
> seem to recollect being able to buy a product called Chartpack when I lived
> in Oz, but I haven't been able to find any here.
>
>
> Thanks & regards,
>
>
>
> Paul http://europa363.versadev.com >>
>
> Most art supply stores carry ChartPack or similar. Also, sign shops will
> create preset dry transfer vinyl letters which are more durable and very easy
> to apply neatly.
>
> John Hanna A128 N741JH
> The Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>;
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Site links |
>I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
>questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
>questions I'm likely to ask
What you're describing is called a FAQ (for Frequently Asked
Questions), and most mature internet fora have one. In self-defence I
created such a document for the Europa e-mail list some years ago,
and it has grown a bit since then. I used to post it monthly to the
list - would people like that practice to resume? (I'll take silence
as no, so there'll need to be a lot of votes "for" to outweigh the
expected silent majority!) The early questions relate to how the list
(now the Forum) works, but there are others further down relating to
the aeroplane itself. You should be able to find it on Jeremy's new
version of the website. I'm afraid the facility to retrieve a copy by
e-mail (just send the command "FAQ FORUM" to the SERVER) is at
present still broken after the recent major repairs to the server. I
am also intending to add some new questions and will post a notice
here when both of those have been sorted. The Europa factory also has
a FAQ on their website, which (as you might imagine) has a slightly
different world-view.
A more global, and searchable, facility exists at Andrew Sarangan's
site, where you can search ALL of the postings to this forum since
day 1. Again, see the link on the Club website
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk> to reach Andrew's databse, which is
another great resource for the Europa community, made entirely by
generous volunteer efforts.
Hope this helps.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AlanB" <aopd37(at)dsl.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals and their travels |
On the question of tension for the counterweight cables I did it this way:
Form the loop round the TP10 on the torque tube on one side as per manual.
Thread one continuous length of cable through all the cable ends and sleeves
and
lugs on the counterweight rod TP18 and then form the loop round the TP10 on
the other side. This gives you a loop of cable between the TP18 lugs with
one length
of cable beteen the two sides of the torque tube.
You need to make sure you have all the right bits threaded onto the cable
before
compressing anything.
Compress the sleeves to make the cable loops round TP10
You now need to tension the cable. I placed a luggage strap with a tensioner
ratchet through
the loop of cable near the lugs and then stretched it to the rear of the
fuselage and round
a wood block braced against the rear of the fuselage.
Tighten the ratchet and tension the luggage strap keeping the tension on the
cable even.
Careful does it so you don't stress anything and when you are happy with
the tension
on the cable do up the nicpress sleeeves near the lugs.
If you threaded all the bits right you should now be able to trim the excess
loop of
cable between the lugs and you have two cables tensioned how you want them.
I managed all this single handed, so only managed to fall out with myself
and had only
two hands in the way rather than four!
I finished off the cable ends with HeatShrink tube.
Alan
#303
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br>
Subject: Re: Rudder pedals and their travels
> Ferg and all,
>
> Another thought for the stab counterweight cables, you say you are
> thinking of putting turnbuckles to enable adjustment.
> I found when crimping the sleeves, that it was very difficult to get the
> same tension on the two sides to center the arm.
> But instead of adding the weight of the turnbuckles, I turned the cable
> where it loops around the shaft just the little bit it needed to center
> the arm and secured the cable with a few loops of lockwire between the
> cable and the pin that holds the nylon bush.
>
> Alex, kit 529.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Tony,
I'm curious about the OD of the tires. Did you lose any prop clearance
when going from the original to the Airtrac 800? How much did you lose
when going to the 700?
Are the inflation pressures the same for the original vs the 800
Airtrac?
I wonder how much rough field capability one would lose when sizing down
to the 700?
Always curious,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
>>>>The original tyre had only marginal clearance from my landing gear
and
used to rub when cornering so I changed to the Air Trac tyres Europa now
supply. The Air Tracs seem to have stiffer sidewalls and give slightly
better directional control than the original tyres IMHO.
I'll second that. We found that the Airtrac 800 x 6 also rubbed a bit so
went for the 700 x 6 in the end which has good clearance from the swing
arm.
You need to retain the Europa inner tube as the airtrac inner tube wont
fit the Europa wheel casting. Anyone want an airtrac 700/800 x 6 inner
tube?
Both of the airtracs are better on the ground than the original tyre.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finishing XS Wings |
Gary,
So what do you suggest for finishing the XS wings?
Jim & Heather A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Finishing XS Wings |
John
I found a short article in the archives. Seems like it was Dec 1998 issue
15??
Jim A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
Thanks for the input everyone,
I think we will get the tyre changed as it was supplied with the kit some 5 or
6 years ago (ouch that hurt!!). It certainly doesn't look like an aircraft tyre
to me, but I will check it tomorrow to be sure.
Plane is going forward really well now. All rudder cables are in with our new
(proper aircraft quality) turnbuckles, the old marine ones having been removed
after advice from many of you. Engine is on, rear baggage bay bulk-head is in
and port door perspex is trimmed ready to bond in.
Taxi this year perhaps, and fly next year!!
Cheers
Ed
Quoting Peter Zutrauen :
>
> Tony,
>
> I'm curious about the OD of the tires. Did you lose any prop clearance
> when going from the original to the Airtrac 800? How much did you lose
> when going to the 700?
>
> Are the inflation pressures the same for the original vs the 800
> Airtrac?
>
> I wonder how much rough field capability one would lose when sizing down
> to the 700?
>
>
> Always curious,
> Pete
> A239
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
>
>
>
> >>>>The original tyre had only marginal clearance from my landing gear
> and
> used to rub when cornering so I changed to the Air Trac tyres Europa now
> supply. The Air Tracs seem to have stiffer sidewalls and give slightly
> better directional control than the original tyres IMHO.
>
> I'll second that. We found that the Airtrac 800 x 6 also rubbed a bit so
> went for the 700 x 6 in the end which has good clearance from the swing
> arm.
>
> You need to retain the Europa inner tube as the airtrac inner tube wont
> fit the Europa wheel casting. Anyone want an airtrac 700/800 x 6 inner
> tube?
>
> Both of the airtracs are better on the ground than the original tyre.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.easynetdial.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
Tony,
You're right - I forgot to mention that the size I went for also was
700x6 - which seems to work (and wear) well.
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
>>>>The original tyre had only marginal clearance from my landing gear
and
used to rub when cornering so I changed to the Air Trac tyres Europa now
supply. The Air Tracs seem to have stiffer sidewalls and give slightly
better directional control than the original tyres IMHO.
I'll second that. We found that the Airtrac 800 x 6 also rubbed a bit so
went for the 700 x 6 in the end which has good clearance from the swing
arm.
You need to retain the Europa inner tube as the airtrac inner tube wont
fit the Europa wheel casting. Anyone want an airtrac 700/800 x 6 inner
tube?
Both of the airtracs are better on the ground than the original tyre.
Tony
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Tim/Gerald/Ken,
Thanks for the ideas. I'm contemplating taking the Panel out next week
mainly to sort out the suppression on the radio and at the same time
hopefully mount my 295 in to the panel and sus outt why the Autopilot wont
see the GPS signal. Thanks for the ideas. I guess its fair to say there's no
good or easy way to fit a 295 other than make up a bracket fitting.
On the radio front I have a Becker 3601 with a built in intercom. There is
loads of noise on the Intercom and it needs suppressing. The daft thing is
the radio is suppressed but that doesn't suppress the noise on the
intercom??. I'm wondering if I might be better fitting a separate intercom
system which I can suppress separately. The only problem then is I'm not
sure if I can put the stand alone intercom inputs in to the radio. I'm sure
more will become apparent when I get the panel out.
Anyone know of a good panel techi here in Yorkshire? Willing to pay but I
would want the job doing fairly swiftly so I can get it back flying again
ASAP.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re:
Kevin,
Yes, I mounted my GPS Garmin 295 within the Avionics Panel. I have a
separate Avonics panel which is removable to allow for easy access to
the instruments.
To secure the GPS, I moulded a stainless steel band around the back of the
GPS connected to one of the mounting frames they give you. The
stainless steel is then connected to the separate Aluminum Avionics Panel
with a hole cut to the size of the front of the GPS plus 2 mm.
You therefore have a near flush mounting and easily removable.
I have a direct 12v connection for the power input as well as a connection
to update the GPS from my laptop by the tray of the I/F panel.
Aerial is on top of the I/F Panel.
Cheers,
Tim
Kevin Taylor wrote:
> Anyone out the mounted a GPS 295 in to the Panel? I noticed it was done on
the trigear "A plane is born" and wondered how it was secured?
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
> GOURO
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.400 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 03 3515166
email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
________________________________________________________________________________
Kevin,
You could try Matthew Russell. He's on 01653 668169.
Regards
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Field" <peter.field(at)hgfield.co.uk> |
I am a new builder hopefully taking delivery of a new trigear kit very soon.
I have thought of making the cradle as used in a plane is born but cannot
locate decent drawings for it. Anybody out there got good drawings or even
a second hand unit they want to sell?
Peter Field
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)islandtelecom.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Tour of Ireland. May 2003 |
Bryan,
Did you receive my info regarding a suggestion to visit the Clonboloughe?
Can you mail me your address off list as I'm up for it
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Europa Tour of Ireland. May 2003
I am organising a 5/6 day trip around The Emerald Island for next year,
I have never been there before so I am open to suggestions for good
destinations.
It will be another six Europa squadron, so if you would like to join in
please put pur name forward early.
Once again. the intention is to allow plenty of time for things to go wrong,
and for relaxing in good company.
You wont need to be a flying ace!
If any of those famous Irish welcomes are still around, it would be nice to
hear from you. Be warned though, you could be dumped on by six europas!
Bryan Allsop G-BYSA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cradle |
Peter,
One design came from Pops Popenoe, which is I believe now:
cpops(at)bellatlantic.net, if not chuckpops(at)aol.com.
Also, if you were a member of the Europa club, it would be in
the archives, with darwings and photos. let me know if no joy, and will send
what I have.
Happy landings
Ferg A064
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Field" <peter.field(at)hgfield.co.uk>
Subject: Fuselage cradle
> I am a new builder hopefully taking delivery of a new trigear kit very
soon.
> I have thought of making the cradle as used in a plane is born but cannot
> locate decent drawings for it. Anybody out there got good drawings or even
> a second hand unit they want to sell?
>
> Peter Field
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Ed, If it's like mine, I would check the Golf Buggy tyre catalog!!
Best regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
Thanks for the input everyone,
I think we will get the tyre changed as it was supplied with the kit some 5 or
6 years ago (ouch that hurt!!). It certainly doesn't look like an aircraft tyre
to me, but I will check it tomorrow to be sure.
...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cradle |
Peter
The Europa factory (Neville Eyre) kindly provided me with a sketch for a
metal fuselage cradle.
If you contact me off line with your address or fax number I will be happy to
pass it on. Be aware though that the metal cradle is heavy - you may prefer
to make your cradle out of wood, using the factory sketch as a rough guide.
Regards
John Heykoop
XS Monowheel #536
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
| From: | kpav <kpav(at)uia.net> |
Hi Tony!!
What is a tyre?
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
----- Original Message -----
From: "kpav" <kpav(at)uia.net>
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
> Hi Tony!!
> What is a tyre?
> kp
It's a city on the Mediterranean coast, but I can't tell you where or I'd
have to kiln you.
F
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary, 6th Edition: "Solid, or hollow
inflated, rubber ring placed round wheel of vehicle to prevent jarring;
~-chain (fastening over tread of tyre to improve grip on ice etc.); ~-gauge,
portable device for measuring air-pressure in tyre."
It's our language, remember...
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
Hi Tony!!
What is a tyre?
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cradle |
Peter Field wrote:
>
> I am a new builder hopefully taking delivery of a new trigear kit very soon.
> I have thought of making the cradle as used in a plane is born but cannot
> locate decent drawings for it. Anybody out there got good drawings or even
> a second hand unit they want to sell?
>
For the trigear, I found that the design of a "cradle" is not
critical. The only important job it will do is when the main gear is
set up, so it needs only to be reasonably rigid, height-adjustable,
not interfere with main gear placement, and ability to work underneath
the fuselage in that area. IOW, review that part of the manual
carefully. I made a simple dolly with 2x4's, 8-feet long and c. 48"
wide, with locking casters. Four vertical 1x4's secure to holes in
fuse sides at the joggle, with height-adjusting slots in the 1x4's and
machine screws/washers/wing nuts. Took only an hour to construct.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedleybrown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of tyres |
oh, dear.. how we tire opf tirades about tyres...h
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
> According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary, 6th Edition: "Solid, or hollow
> inflated, rubber ring placed round wheel of vehicle to prevent jarring;
> ~-chain (fastening over tread of tyre to improve grip on ice etc.);
~-gauge,
> portable device for measuring air-pressure in tyre."
>
> It's our language, remember...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: On the subject of tyres
>
>
> Hi Tony!!
> What is a tyre?
> kp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | ace area increase with sanding 41.4% |
Duncan and others,
Surface area increase with sanding. Now I have been wondering about this for
ages. I realise sanding increases the surface area, but there must be a rule
which states what the maximum grade of paper to use to give the best result
i.e. you should use 80 Grit advised by Europa on layups before future bonding
but it always seems a bit coarse to me. I only use 120 Grit for roughing up an
already preexisting glass surface. How do you get 41.4% increase in surface
area?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
>[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
>
>> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
>> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
>> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
>>
>> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
>
>
>Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
>show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
>his paints).
>
>The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase in
>surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be no
>benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
>consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
>then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional surface
>area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
>
>Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in Smooth
>Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the presence
>of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult to
>get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
>impossible with the correct technique.
>Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
>much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler minerals
>in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is holding
>on okay so far.
>
>Duncan McF.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
I'd be most interested to know what other builders have used. I've used 60
grit for the scuff sanding inside my XS wings, but have noticed that the
sanding marks adjacent to where the rib-to-spar joints have been made during
manufacture appear courser - 40 grit?
I find myself constantly torn between the risk of not sanding enough (and
getting a poor bond) and overdoing it (and damaging the substrate).
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4%
Duncan and others,
Surface area increase with sanding. Now I have been wondering about this for
ages. I realise sanding increases the surface area, but there must be a rule
which states what the maximum grade of paper to use to give the best result
i.e. you should use 80 Grit advised by Europa on layups before future
bonding
but it always seems a bit coarse to me. I only use 120 Grit for roughing up
an
already preexisting glass surface. How do you get 41.4% increase in surface
area?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
>[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
>
>> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
>> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
>> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
>>
>> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
>
>
>Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
>show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
>his paints).
>
>The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase in
>surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be no
>benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
>consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
>then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional surface
>area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
>
>Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in Smooth
>Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the presence
>of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult to
>get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
>impossible with the correct technique.
>Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
>much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler minerals
>in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is holding
>on okay so far.
>
>Duncan McF.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
Cheers,
On the subject of sanding and 'substrate' I think we have to
consider hwat type of surface we're discussing. I've been scuffing old
epoxy-glass layers, fuselage new outer surfaces, long-open peelply and
alumin(i)um flats at various times. I started with sixty, but soon
discovered I was ripping and tearing. then I read somewhere that Boeing says
"if water will stay on it, it's ready for sticking" - or words to that
effect.
Since then I've treated several different tests surfaces (as
above) with a number of different grades of abraders and frankly I found the
BiD that sticks the best is to ANY of the surfaces that have been treated
within the hour to a palm-sander from 120 to 320 grit, smeared very lightly
with epoxy compound and applied with pressure, but not a lot (weights). The
latter were the hardest to pull apart after 6 hours, two days and two weeks.
Much as I dismiss Boeing - the engineers who build aircraft for
profit - I'm going with the water theory.
My CAN$0.02
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4%
> I'd be most interested to know what other builders have used. I've used 60
> grit for the scuff sanding inside my XS wings, but have noticed that the
> sanding marks adjacent to where the rib-to-spar joints have been made
during
> manufacture appear courser - 40 grit?
>
> I find myself constantly torn between the risk of not sanding enough (and
> getting a poor bond) and overdoing it (and damaging the substrate).
>
> Regards,
> Jeremy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
All,
I remember reading somewhere (but now can't find it) that the point of scuff sanding
existing surfaces was to improve molecular bonding between the surfaces
rather than simply to increase the surface area. Apparently breaking molecular
bonds in the existing surfaces encourages some molecules to re-bond with the
new epoxy. On this basis, (since molecules are small) a finer grit would be better
as it results in many small scratches rather than fewer large ones.
Best regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4%
Duncan and others,
Surface area increase with sanding. Now I have been wondering about this for
ages. I realise sanding increases the surface area, but there must be a rule
which states what the maximum grade of paper to use to give the best result
i.e. you should use 80 Grit advised by Europa on layups before future bonding
but it always seems a bit coarse to me. I only use 120 Grit for roughing up an
already preexisting glass surface. How do you get 41.4% increase in surface
area?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
>[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
>
>> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
>> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
>> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
>>
>> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
>
>
>Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
>show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
>his paints).
>
>The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase in
>surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be no
>benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
>consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
>then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional surface
>area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
>
>Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in Smooth
>Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the presence
>of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult to
>get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
>impossible with the correct technique.
>Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
>much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler minerals
>in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is holding
>on okay so far.
>
>Duncan McF.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
I know this is a big subject but any opinions on where is the best place to
buy instruments & avionics in the UK?
I understand that they are much cheaper in the US. Anyone taken the trouble
to import or is the price advantage then negated with taxes etc? The
alternative I suppose is to take a budget trip across the pond and bring
some back but I guess this would be smuggling.
AArgh Jim Lad!!
Richard Iddon (Tri Gear G-RIXS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
Agreed. But it also depends on the depth o any "contamination". I have no
clues on that, only it is probably very small given that the permeability
of epoxy is low.
Duncan Mcf
On Saturday, October 26, 2002 6:50 AM, Nick Hammond
[SMTP:Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au] wrote:
> All,
>
> I remember reading somewhere (but now can't find it) that the point of
scuff sanding existing surfaces was to improve molecular bonding between
the surfaces rather than simply to increase the surface area. Apparently
breaking molecular bonds in the existing surfaces encourages some molecules
to re-bond with the new epoxy. On this basis, (since molecules are small) a
finer grit would be better as it results in many small scratches rather
than fewer large ones.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4%
>
>
> Duncan and others,
> Surface area increase with sanding. Now I have been wondering about this
for
> ages. I realise sanding increases the surface area, but there must be a
rule
> which states what the maximum grade of paper to use to give the best
result
> i.e. you should use 80 Grit advised by Europa on layups before future
bonding
> but it always seems a bit coarse to me. I only use 120 Grit for roughing
up an
> already preexisting glass surface. How do you get 41.4% increase in
surface
> area?
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> >On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
> >[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
> >
> >> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
> >> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
> >> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
> >>
> >> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
> >
> >
> >Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
> >show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
> >his paints).
> >
> >The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase
in
> >surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be
no
> >benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
> >consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
> >then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional
surface
> >area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
> >
> >Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in
Smooth
> >Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the
presence
> >of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult
to
> >get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
> >impossible with the correct technique.
> >Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
> >much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler
minerals
> >in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is
holding
> >on okay so far.
> >
> >Duncan McF.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
Your useful tests confirm the theory.
Otherwise, although the water test is common, I'd be reluctant to use it
other than for developing a cleaning procedure. This is because the
presence of even small amounts of atmospheric moisture have a significant
effect on epoxy bond strengths; reduction of atmospheric humidity at the
time of bonding results in proportionate increases in bond strength, down
to an RH of 5 to 10 % where the benefit flattens off. So if the water used
in the water test is not fully dried off (hairdryer?) it will result in
reduced bond strength.
I don't think we should get too paranoid about this because Europa have
allowed generously in their design. They may correct me if I'm wrong, but
the design-allowable bond strength (500psi) is about 25% of the maximum
that can be achieved with these materials.
Duncan McF.
On Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:17 AM, Fergus Kyle [SMTP:VE3LVO(at)rac.ca]
wrote:
> Cheers,
> On the subject of sanding and 'substrate' I think we have to
> consider hwat type of surface we're discussing. I've been scuffing old
> epoxy-glass layers, fuselage new outer surfaces, long-open peelply and
> alumin(i)um flats at various times. I started with sixty, but soon
> discovered I was ripping and tearing. then I read somewhere that Boeing
says
> "if water will stay on it, it's ready for sticking" - or words to that
> effect.
> Since then I've treated several different tests surfaces (as
> above) with a number of different grades of abraders and frankly I found
the
> BiD that sticks the best is to ANY of the surfaces that have been treated
> within the hour to a palm-sander from 120 to 320 grit, smeared very
lightly
> with epoxy compound and applied with pressure, but not a lot (weights).
The
> latter were the hardest to pull apart after 6 hours, two days and two
weeks.
> Much as I dismiss Boeing - the engineers who build aircraft
for
> profit - I'm going with the water theory.
> My CAN$0.02
> Ferg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4%
>
>
> > I'd be most interested to know what other builders have used. I've used
60
> > grit for the scuff sanding inside my XS wings, but have noticed that
the
> > sanding marks adjacent to where the rib-to-spar joints have been made
> during
> > manufacture appear courser - 40 grit?
> >
> > I find myself constantly torn between the risk of not sanding enough
(and
> > getting a poor bond) and overdoing it (and damaging the substrate).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeremy
>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Surface area increase with sanding 41.4% |
Ideally, only the epoxy on the surface of the layup wants to be abraded.
Any deeper results in removal of structural material. But that's probably
all theory as the important thing is to generate a clean high-energy
surface; the resulting improvement of bond strength would likely outweigh
any loss of glass, given that the weakest link in the chain is in most
cases going to be the bond, not the glass.
Of course there comes a point ....................
To obtain a good paint bond in car paint refinishing, it is sufficient to
just dull the substrate surface using matting compound.
41% comes from simple trigonometry.
Duncan McF.
On Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:24 AM, Tony Renshaw
[SMTP:tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au] wrote:
> Duncan and others,
> Surface area increase with sanding. Now I have been wondering about this
for
> ages. I realise sanding increases the surface area, but there must be a
rule
> which states what the maximum grade of paper to use to give the best
result
> i.e. you should use 80 Grit advised by Europa on layups before future
bonding
> but it always seems a bit coarse to me. I only use 120 Grit for roughing
up an
> already preexisting glass surface. How do you get 41.4% increase in
surface
> area?
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> >On Friday, October 11, 2002 2:30 PM, Fred Fillinger
> >[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
> >
> >> 180-grit is probably OK, if its use doesn't show through the coating,
> >> but it appears that grit size bears little relationship to long-term
> >> adhesion. The following is from a coatings manufacturer:
> >>
> >> "Although surface roughening generally improves the adhesion,
> >
> >
> >Stits always advised that 240 was the coarsest possible without risk of
> >show-through on the final coat; I found that to be correct (at least for
> >his paints).
> >
> >The improvements in adhesion probably only comes about by the increase
in
> >surface area that the abrading generates. In which case there would be
no
> >benefit in a coarser roughening (i.e. if, for the sake of argument, you
> >consider that a 90 degree saw-tooth profile is generated by the sanding
> >then the depth of that profile does not alter the 41.4% additional
surface
> >area generated). Which is consistent with your comment.
> >
> >Nobody has yet mentioned the appallingly high % of talc that is in
Smooth
> >Prime. Apart from the poor adhesion of anything against talc, the
presence
> >of this would make wet sanding very inadvisable; it would be difficult
to
> >get it dry (and mineralogically un-hydrated(?)) afterwards, but not
> >impossible with the correct technique.
> >Personally, I added loads of Q-cell to the Smooth Prime, which makes it
> >much cheaper and displaces some of the disastrously heavy filler
minerals
> >in there. My next coat was then a single-pack base coat; which is
holding
> >on okay so far.
> >
> >Duncan McF.
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage cradle |
A few pictures of two types of dolly, as described by other respondents, can be
seen under the Miscellaneous Items section of the List Support Site at
http://www.crix.org.uk. I will add a picture of a 'spit roaster' when I get a
round tuit.
As has been said, the dolly is not critical. - build something that will work
for you and will support the thing firmly during building.
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
"How do you get 41.4% increase in surface area? Reg
Tony Renshaw.........
41% comes from simple trigonometry. Duncan McF."
I s'pose you're touting the root o' two de tout? Can I guess the next number
was another 2 too?
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
The FAQ for the Europa Forum got lost during the recent repairs
(although I think it was still continuously available via the Club
website). I have re-instated it and you can once more retrieve it by
sending the message:
FAQ FORUM
to the server at:
It is still at V34 as before, but I have some updates to make and
hope to publish V35 before long. As ever, I welcome input on what
should go into the FAQ.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray M. Knapp" <rmkhomes(at)charter.net> |
To All Europa Devotees:
I recently became aware of the Europa through a friend who I
discovered had built one. I have been researching (thanks to this fine
Forum) and have become very impressed with the professionalism and
helpful nature of so many participants. And thanks to several who so
quickly replied to my query re: a searchable database of postings.
Having decided to go ahead and build, and having discovered that
occasionally, for numerous reasons, a builder has a change in plans and
must sell either an un- or partially completed kit, I thought it could
be mutually beneficial to ask of the Forum if any such projects are
available for sale, preferably in the Western United States.
Thanks to everyone, Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Ray,
There is such a beast (courtesy of Andrew Sarangan), as well as a list
of FAQs that are very helpful to builders. Links to both are on the Club
web site at www.europaclub.org.uk - follow the link to the Forum page.
The Club also has an excellent booklet gathering together the best hints
and tips, compiled by Dave Watts, with entries coming from the Forum,
the factory newsletter, and the Club magazine "Europa Flyer". As a new
builder 6 months ago, I found it very useful indeed - it flagged some
difficulties I wouldn't have known to look for a solution for until too
late!
One of the most time-consuming problems I had initially was finding
suppliers for all the little extras - acetone, mask and filters, Tyvek
paper overalls, paper roll, syringes, etc. I'm putting my UK list of
these up on the Club site ASAP, and hope those in other countries will
respond to my call and help out with their lists.
The two real pains to date have been acetone - in the UK most suppliers
won't sell to individuals because they perceive a liability risk - and
empty mastic/caulking tubes for the big Redux jobs. I spent 3 hours the
other day just sourcing the tubes (and they had a minimum order size of
GBP20, so if anyone in the Oxfordshire area needs some, get in touch!).
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Jeremy:
On the note of reducing the "has anyone done ..." questions, I'm
a soon-to-be new builder and really enjoy the obvious utility of this
forum. But I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
questions I'm likely to ask. Any suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Web Site links
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In
particular, I'd really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences
about why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include
these recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or
Club) mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we
started building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and
why. Please help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details
of your mods as examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the
number of 'has anyone done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does
acetone at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free -
although they don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa
builders knowing about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even
if it's just a local one-man-band who does upholstery, or
aviation-standard welding, please let me have details, wherever you are
in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of
the suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need
help making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and
fliers. So please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or
'on the Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedleybrown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | pitch, manifold pressure, engine revs - what combination's best? |
Er .... the title says my question.h.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Convinced to Build! |
Ray M. Knapp wrote:
> To All Europa Devotees:
> I recently became aware of the Europa through a friend who I
> discovered had built one. I have been researching (thanks to this
> fine Forum) and have become very impressed with the professionalism
> and helpful nature of so many participants. And thanks to several
> who so quickly replied to my query re: a searchable database of
> postings. Having decided to go ahead and build, and having discovered
> that occasionally, for numerous reasons, a builder has a change in
> plans and must sell either an un- or partially completed kit, I
> thought it could be mutually beneficial to ask of the Forum if any
> such projects are available for sale, preferably in the Western
> United States. Thanks to everyone, Ray
Have a look at http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/ads/ - I know there
is at least one part built kit on there, but it's in the UK. There are
probably others, I don't have time to look right now.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Correctomundo.
Duncan mcF
On Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:34 PM, Fergus Kyle [SMTP:VE3LVO(at)rac.ca] wrote:
>
> "How do you get 41.4% increase in surface area? Reg
> Tony Renshaw.........
> 41% comes from simple trigonometry. Duncan McF."
>
> I s'pose you're touting the root o' two de tout? Can I guess the next number
> was another 2 too?
> Ferg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Convinced to Build! |
Ray,
thanks for the compliments. The Club web site has links to most things Europan
- it is an immense resource, and if you find something appears to be missing,
tell the webmaster - all useful info will be added.
On a general note, the Club provides the email list and web site for ALL Europa
devotees, builders, fliers and wannabees - we would encourage all those who
find them useful to support them by joining the Club.
Good luck with your (forthcoming) kit,
dave
kit67
Europa Club Chairman
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Convinced to Build! |
Ray
I believe there is a project availabelin the Portland, OR aria. Try an Email
to shauns(at)hevanet.com
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
For you trigonometry junkies,
I love trig, or at least I thought I did. Here I'll prove
it................SOHCAHTOA..............see, I told you I like it.
I can't find my old trig tables and my calculator my kids stole and it now has
flat batteries, so is there any definitive answers without questions :-)
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>Correctomundo.
>
>Duncan mcF
>
>On Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:34 PM, Fergus Kyle [SMTP:VE3LVO(at)rac.ca]
wrote:
>>
>> "How do you get 41.4% increase in surface area? Reg
>> Tony Renshaw.........
>> 41% comes from simple trigonometry. Duncan McF."
>>
>> I s'pose you're touting the root o' two de tout? Can I guess the next number
>> was another 2 too?
>> Ferg
>>
>>
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Convinced to Build! |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Here you go...
http://www.europa-usa.com/ads.htm
cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Convinced to Build!
To All Europa Devotees:
I recently became aware of the Europa through a friend who I
discovered had built one. I have been researching (thanks to this fine
Forum) and have become very impressed with the professionalism and
helpful nature of so many participants. And thanks to several who so
quickly replied to my query re: a searchable database of postings.
Having decided to go ahead and build, and having discovered that
occasionally, for numerous reasons, a builder has a change in plans and
must sell either an un- or partially completed kit, I thought it could
be mutually beneficial to ask of the Forum if any such projects are
available for sale, preferably in the Western United States.
Thanks to everyone, Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Ray,
There is such a beast (courtesy of Andrew Sarangan), as well as a list
of FAQs that are very helpful to builders. Links to both are on the Club
web site at www.europaclub.org.uk - follow the link to the Forum page.
The Club also has an excellent booklet gathering together the best hints
and tips, compiled by Dave Watts, with entries coming from the Forum,
the factory newsletter, and the Club magazine "Europa Flyer". As a new
builder 6 months ago, I found it very useful indeed - it flagged some
difficulties I wouldn't have known to look for a solution for until too
late!
One of the most time-consuming problems I had initially was finding
suppliers for all the little extras - acetone, mask and filters, Tyvek
paper overalls, paper roll, syringes, etc. I'm putting my UK list of
these up on the Club site ASAP, and hope those in other countries will
respond to my call and help out with their lists.
The two real pains to date have been acetone - in the UK most suppliers
won't sell to individuals because they perceive a liability risk - and
empty mastic/caulking tubes for the big Redux jobs. I spent 3 hours the
other day just sourcing the tubes (and they had a minimum order size of
GBP20, so if anyone in the Oxfordshire area needs some, get in touch!).
Regards,
Jeremy
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Web Site links
Jeremy:
On the note of reducing the "has anyone done ..." questions, I'm
a soon-to-be new builder and really enjoy the obvious utility of this
forum. But I'm hoping there is a searchable database of previous
questions that I can interrogate in the attempt to minimize the dumb
questions I'm likely to ask. Any suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Web Site links
I'm currently working on the links sections of the Europa Club web site,
and just wanted to put out another appeal for useful links. In
particular, I'd really appreciate any the following:
1) Regulatory bodies (the CAAs, EAAs, FAAs, and JAAs of this world)
2) Good suppliers (if possible, please include a couple of sentences
about why you think they should be on the site - I'd like to include
these recommendations with the links)
3) Mods - I've had no details of any individual (i.e. not Factory or
Club) mods yet, and I'm sure we all remember what it was like when we
started building and had no idea of what were good mods to include, and
why. Please help your fellow Europa builders by putting forward details
of your mods as examples to follow. We might even manage to reduce the
number of 'has anyone done....' emails on the Forum!
4) Airfields - know any Europa-friendly airfields?
I know I said this is a links section, but actually I am including some
useful suppliers that don't have web sites, but which I have been lucky
enough to discover (for example, I found an organisation that does
acetone at a very competitive price and delivers to my door for free -
although they don't have a web site, it's worth other UK-based Europa
builders knowing about them). So if you know some good suppliers, even
if it's just a local one-man-band who does upholstery, or
aviation-standard welding, please let me have details, wherever you are
in the world.
I'm particularly keen to get some non-UK links - being UK-based, most of
the suppliers and airfields I know about are in this country, and I need
help making this site as useful as possible to our non-UK builders and
fliers. So please, whether you are in the Americas, the Antipodes, or
'on the Continent', get in touch!
Thanks for all your help.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
Europa Club website is at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt(at)btinternet.com> |
Richard
I certainly would not recommend smuggling but have bought most of my
instruments in Sun'n'Fun, Florida and brought them back thro the 'red'
channel with the aid of a Customs 'end user Certificate' which I believe
gives Tax free (not VAT free) imports. Rarely have the Customs at any
airport I have entered shown any interest in charging me the VAT on the
basis that I have been open and honest, as well as having the certification
October 11, 2002 - October 27, 2002
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cs