Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cy
January 26, 2003 - February 07, 2003
some unique powerplants like Wilksch aero-diesel and a
BMW R1100 motorcycle engine.
The certified version of the Europa - the Liberty XL-2
( http://www.libertyaircraft.com/ ) I think will have
the option of a FADEC controlled IO-240...so it should
be doable on both fit and weight & balance. I believe
the major differences between the Europa and the
Liberty are that the Liberty has non-removable aluminum
wings and the Continental engine.
Honestly, I don't think engine reliability is the major
concern with most of the builders, but more of cost and
power rating. Rotax, Jabiru, VW, and Subaru have all
proven themselves in many other planes over the past
several years and decades.
I also think the ceiling would be a bit higher with the
914 and a good CS prop. I think when John Hurst
(Europa USA) flew the factory demo plane with the
glider wings, he made several hops doing around 175
knots just below jet routes...and I think that is with
the non-turbo 912 - not bad for a motor glider!
Remember that the 914 is the same engine in the
Predator drone and they fly it at altitudes around FL
250, so I think it would really depend more upon your
personal willingness to be up there (I plan on going up
there with my 914 powered mono-wheel, O2 bottle and
pulse-ox sensor)
Looking at the info for the Pulsar, it shows the
cockpit at 44", where the Europa is currently at 44"
and with a mod can be altered to 45", so that is
comparable. The door sill is the narrowest point, so
if you are taller than I am (at 5'6"), you may get
different left arm movement (the sill meets my left arm
at the DPT vaccination scar).
Pulsar lists the 100 with a Rotax 914, and stated max
speed is 208 MpH, but does not say at what altitude,
atmospheric conditions or type of prop...so again it
looks comparable to the Europa 914 which lists 200 MpH
TAS at 10K ft at 75% thrust.
Everything else looks comparable, except the removable
wings. By keeping my plane at home on the trailer, I
am planning on buying lots of goodies and insurance and
gas that I wouldn't be able to afford if I had to spend
$100 to $300 per month on a hangar.
Where in WA? I just took delivery of my kit this past
Sat., and Dennis was dropping another kit in Kent WA on
his way home to Edmonton. If you can, talk to some of
the builders in your area, there are several I know of
in western WA (Cliff makes regular postings) and you
can see the build process and sit inside and hear other
opinions (not just my gung-ho vision).
You can also talk to Kim Prout ( kpav(at)uia.net or
909-920-3055 ) who is one of our west coast reps (Ralph
Petersen is the other), he and his father has done
testing of his 912 powered Europa with the CAFE
foundation, so these tests will state all the
particulars of altitude, atmospheric conditions, test
weight, prop type, etc.,. I suggest contacting Pulsar
and requesting CAFE foundation data on the 100 if it
has been tested.
The kit price looks to be about the same, but the
engine & firewall forward looks to be about $5000 less
for the Pulsar, but I don't see any detailed lists of
what is included - all the extras really add up:
exhaust system; coolant system; engine mount; etc.
From what is shown, it is a nice plane...looks like it
is going to come down to the removable wings.
just my 2 cents worth.
Good luck,
Dean Wiegand
Sacramento CA USA
dwiegand(at)surewest.net
kit A259
www.dwiegand.dnsalias.com
click on "Europa"
-----Original Message-----
| From: | forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk |
Dwight Morgan
| Subject: | 240 and Super 200 |
Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in
Washington state. I have a couple of questions.
Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I
was thinking of an IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they
fit? Would weight and balance be doable? I guess this
also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels
about reliability of all of the different engines.
Would the 914 have a higher ceiling that the IO-240 due
to the turbo?
Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen
to the top, the Europa and the Pulsar Super 100. I
like the efficiency and removable wings of the Europa,
but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at
the shoulders and allows more std engine options, and
is a little faster.
Thanks for your input,
Dwight
--____GJYKTZHMQTJTCSYOYIAQ____
--____GJYKTZHMQTJTCSYOYIAQ____--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
In a message dated 1/26/2003 6:20:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us writes:
> I am 6'2" with shoulders at about 18" across. Inseam of 32". My dad is same
> hight and inseam, but a hint broader at the shoulders and without the mod
> thought it was too narrow. He had to sit at an angle to avoid the sill.
> He did say if the sill wasn't there no problem.
>
I am 6'3", inseam 34" and wide shoulders (don't know the measurement). The
door sill does hit my left arm, but after a little while, my brain just
ignores it. I have the bubble windows and find the cockpit to be quite roomy.
Can anybody shed any details my way regarding the door sill mod?
thanks,
Dave A227 Mini U2 (first flight scheduled for Tuesday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
The certified version of the Europa - the Liberty XL-2
( http://www.libertyaircraft.com/ ) I think will have
the option of a FADEC controlled IO-240...so it should
be doable on both fit and weight & balance.
The Liberty has the shape of the Europa, but it is scaled up 10 % is
constructed differently, higher empty weght etc....
Alex, #529
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Regarding cabin width, ignore the sales blurb and use your tape
measure. the actual width between door frames is 40".
Same applies to headroom. I wish those bubble windows had been
available a couple of years ago.
Cheers, Karl Heindl
From: DJA727(at)aol.com
>Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:33:12 EST
>
>In a message dated 1/26/2003 6:20:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us writes:
>
> > I am 6'2" with shoulders at about 18" across. Inseam of 32". My dad is
>same
> > hight and inseam, but a hint broader at the shoulders and without the
>mod
> > thought it was too narrow. He had to sit at an angle to avoid the sill.
> > He did say if the sill wasn't there no problem.
> >
>
>I am 6'3", inseam 34" and wide shoulders (don't know the measurement). The
>door sill does hit my left arm, but after a little while, my brain just
>ignores it. I have the bubble windows and find the cockpit to be quite
>roomy.
>
>Can anybody shed any details my way regarding the door sill mod?
>
>thanks,
>
>Dave A227 Mini U2 (first flight scheduled for Tuesday)
Express yourself with cool emoticons http://messenger.msn.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
In a message dated 1/26/2003 7:33:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
kheindl(at)msn.com writes:
> Regarding cabin width, ignore the sales blurb and use your tape
> measure. the actual width between door frames is 40".
> Same applies to headroom. I wish those bubble windows had been
> available a couple of years ago.
>
The sales info is from skin to skin - I measured that myself, but the door
sill to door sill is less, of course. The Europa is only a couple inches less
than my twin comanche and only 1 inch less than a friend's bonanza.
Dave
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system.
Joe
A086
Shaun Simpkins wrote:
Uhhm...a Continental up front? You might be better off considering an RV-9A.
The XS
is pretty much designed around the Rotax, and definitely around engines
weighing less than 200lbs.
The Jabiru 3300 will fit, but it is pushing the weight limit.
The average Rotax-equipped Europa, according to Flightcrafters, comes in at
around 850-880 lbs
empty with a useful load of around 500 lbs. That's about the minimum for
two, full tanks, and luggage.
An engine 50-100 lbs heavier than the Rotaxes would make the Europa a nice
loaded-touring single-place ship.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Morgan" <morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us>
Subject: IO-240 and Super 200
Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in Washington state. I have
a couple of questions.
Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I was thinking of an
IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they fit? Would weight and balance be doable?
I guess this also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels about
reliability of all of the different engines. Would the 914 have a higher
ceiling that the IO-240 due to the turbo?
Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen to the top, the Europa
and the Pulsar Super 100. I like the efficiency and removable wings of the
Europa, but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at the
shoulders and allows more std engine options, and is a little faster.
Thanks for your input,
Dwight
The Europa Club website is at < http://www.europaclub.org.uk >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
In a message dated 1/26/2003 12:02:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
josephlike(at)cox.net writes:
> Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
> than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system
Are you running a Jabiru?
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I'm surprised I'm the first of the 'oldies' to mention this. You will
note that the XS cowling is considerably narrower that the classic. This
was due to the fact that in early development it was thought that the
O-240 might be a suitable fit to the aircraft. Lakeland even went so far
as to looking at an installation and may have even had an 0-240 on the
aircraft (it was a long time ago and my memory fails me in that regard).
In the end it was decided that the engine was simply too heavy and
wouldn't give any real performance increase over a 914. Once the O-240
was eliminated this gave the opportunity to slim down the cowlings to
the current XS shape.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Mine isn't flying yet but I've gotten the weight figures before
purchasing my engine. If the good Lord is willing and the money holds
out I should be flying by the end of this year. I'm building my at
Flight Crafters down in Fl.
Joe Like
A086
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Tony,
Lakeland had two additiononal engines a special light weight 0200 and the
BMW. Bob had builded up the 0200 and had the weight down. The BMW never
did get a SRU so it was written off. I've seen both engines back in the
late 90's.
Joe
A086
"Tony S. Krzyzewski" wrote:
I'm surprised I'm the first of the 'oldies' to mention this. You will
note that the XS cowling is considerably narrower that the classic.
This
was due to the fact that in early development it was thought that the
O-240 might be a suitable fit to the aircraft. Lakeland even went so
far
as to looking at an installation and may have even had an 0-240 on
the
aircraft (it was a long time ago and my memory fails me in that
regard).
In the end it was decided that the engine was simply too heavy and
wouldn't give any real performance increase over a 914. Once the
O-240
was eliminated this gave the opportunity to slim down the cowlings to
the current XS shape.
Tony
The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
It's very close. The total installed weight of the 3300, according to the
website is 178lbs.
The total installed DRY weight of the Rotaxen, according to Kodiak, is 140.6
lbs. for the 912S
and 166.4 lbs. for the 914. Add about 10-15 lbs. for fluids. I'd sure like
a definitive figure from
the builder community...
On the other hand, the Jabiru has to turn 3300 RPM to make 120HP, so it's
more of a horserace
at 2700RPM.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
> Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
> than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system.
>
> Joe
> A086
>
>
> Shaun Simpkins wrote:
>
> Uhhm...a Continental up front? You might be better off considering an
RV-9A.
> The XS
> is pretty much designed around the Rotax, and definitely around engines
> weighing less than 200lbs.
> The Jabiru 3300 will fit, but it is pushing the weight limit.
> The average Rotax-equipped Europa, according to Flightcrafters, comes in
at
> around 850-880 lbs
> empty with a useful load of around 500 lbs. That's about the minimum for
> two, full tanks, and luggage.
> An engine 50-100 lbs heavier than the Rotaxes would make the Europa a
nice
> loaded-touring single-place ship.
>
> Shaun
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dwight Morgan" <morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us>
> Subject: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in Washington state. I
have
> a couple of questions.
>
> Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I was thinking of
an
> IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they fit? Would weight and balance be
doable?
> I guess this also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels
about
> reliability of all of the different engines. Would the 914 have a higher
> ceiling that the IO-240 due to the turbo?
>
> Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen to the top, the
Europa
> and the Pulsar Super 100. I like the efficiency and removable wings of
the
> Europa, but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at the
> shoulders and allows more std engine options, and is a little faster.
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Dwight
>
>
> The Europa Club website is at < http://www.europaclub.org.uk >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <europa_builder(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Sacred Are the Sacred Six? |
Steve
I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I want to
keep my panel as simple as possible. An airspeed
indicator and an altimeter will just about do it. A
magnetic compass is required, but that is not a 'panel
instrument' per se.
Perhaps after a few hundred hours of day VFR flying, I
might upgrade the airplane to night VFR and then to
IFR. Also, by that time there is bound to be better
technology, such as LED lights and better gyros.
--- Steve & Eileen Genotte wrote:
> I'm planning my panel (the Domestic Treasury Dept.
> has released the
> funding). Looking over the various posts regarding
> panel builds and
> aluminum cut-outs, I see a lot of references to the
> standard "six pack" of
> gyros, etc., which are required for IFR flight.
> But!, the flight
> instruments required for day VFR flight by FAR
> 91.205 are an airspeed
> indicator, an alitmeter, and a magnetic heading
> indicator. Since I'm not
> building an IFR aircraft, right there I've gone from
> the Sacred Six to the
> Thrifty Three.
>
> Now to really make things interesting...
>
> I've decided to get the microEncoder and
> microMonitor from RMI. Reading the
> specs on the microEncoder, I see it can display
> airspeed, altitude, and
> magnetic heading. Huzzah!
>
> So, as I read it, I don't need anything beyond the
> microEncoder to satisfy
> the reqs with regards to flight instruments, and the
> microMonitor will cover
> all of the engine system parameters the Feds deem
> worthy of attention.
>
> Am I right? Can I have a main panel consisting of a
> microEncoder ...and
> nothing else (I might get a Garmin GPSMAP 295 to
> help provide aesthetic
> balance)?
>
> Mind you, I'm not asking if it's [stentorian tone]
> a good idea
> [/stentorian tone], just if it's legal.
>
> TIA,
>
> Steve "I'd rather empanel a jury than plan my panel"
> G.
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> In the event of problems contact
>
> The Europa Club website is at
<http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
You surprise me as the only one I have seen has a counter balance on the
back of the aircraft. I don't know the battery location but I have never
seen a Rotax engine Europa with a counter balance?
As for me I have a BIG battery in the boot due to my Soobie Engine.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system.
Joe
A086
Shaun Simpkins wrote:
Uhhm...a Continental up front? You might be better off considering an
RV-9A.
The XS
is pretty much designed around the Rotax, and definitely around engines
weighing less than 200lbs.
The Jabiru 3300 will fit, but it is pushing the weight limit.
The average Rotax-equipped Europa, according to Flightcrafters, comes in
at
around 850-880 lbs
empty with a useful load of around 500 lbs. That's about the minimum for
two, full tanks, and luggage.
An engine 50-100 lbs heavier than the Rotaxes would make the Europa a nice
loaded-touring single-place ship.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Morgan" <morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us>
Subject: IO-240 and Super 200
Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in Washington state. I
have
a couple of questions.
Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I was thinking of an
IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they fit? Would weight and balance be
doable?
I guess this also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels about
reliability of all of the different engines. Would the 914 have a higher
ceiling that the IO-240 due to the turbo?
Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen to the top, the
Europa
and the Pulsar Super 100. I like the efficiency and removable wings of
the
Europa, but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at the
shoulders and allows more std engine options, and is a little faster.
Thanks for your input,
Dwight
The Europa Club website is at < http://www.europaclub.org.uk >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
Roger Anderson
| Subject: | Re: Door latch push rods |
excellent idea, Roger! I'll do the same as me to I have some paint (and filler)
cracke horizontaly in this area.
Klaus
Roger Anderson wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Klaus Dietrich" <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com>
> > if you build precisely and if you bond the cut out for the door mechanisme
> > back in place (as per the manual), your door will be sufficiently stiff
> and
> > no in-flight-bulging/opening will happen.
> I agree.
> > However it's good idea to stiffen the lower frame (as advised by Nigel
> > Graham) with 2-3 layers of bid or glassing a small wedge in the radius,
> > because this area really gets bent (especially when passengers step on the
> > frame when entering the plane...)
> I stiffened the lower frame by cutting 3mm ply to make a small
> bulkhead in the space between the headrest and the lower sill. Before
> fitting the bulkheads the paint cracked in a horizontal lines about one inch
> below the sill in the centre of the frame, but since fitting them there has
> been no cracking in this area.
> Roger. G-BXTD.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Hi! Shaun,
Does your Weight figures for the Rotax include the Muffler?
I know the Jabiru figure does.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
It's very close. The total installed weight of the 3300, according to the
website is 178lbs.
The total installed DRY weight of the Rotaxen, according to Kodiak, is 140.6
lbs. for the 912S
and 166.4 lbs. for the 914. Add about 10-15 lbs. for fluids. I'd sure like
a definitive figure from
the builder community...
On the other hand, the Jabiru has to turn 3300 RPM to make 120HP, so it's
more of a horserace
at 2700RPM.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
> Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
> than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system.
>
> Joe
> A086
>
>
> Shaun Simpkins wrote:
>
> Uhhm...a Continental up front? You might be better off considering an
RV-9A.
> The XS
> is pretty much designed around the Rotax, and definitely around engines
> weighing less than 200lbs.
> The Jabiru 3300 will fit, but it is pushing the weight limit.
> The average Rotax-equipped Europa, according to Flightcrafters, comes in
at
> around 850-880 lbs
> empty with a useful load of around 500 lbs. That's about the minimum for
> two, full tanks, and luggage.
> An engine 50-100 lbs heavier than the Rotaxes would make the Europa a
nice
> loaded-touring single-place ship.
>
> Shaun
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dwight Morgan" <morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us>
> Subject: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in Washington state. I
have
> a couple of questions.
>
> Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I was thinking of
an
> IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they fit? Would weight and balance be
doable?
> I guess this also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels
about
> reliability of all of the different engines. Would the 914 have a higher
> ceiling that the IO-240 due to the turbo?
>
> Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen to the top, the
Europa
> and the Pulsar Super 100. I like the efficiency and removable wings of
the
> Europa, but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at the
> shoulders and allows more std engine options, and is a little faster.
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Dwight
>
>
> The Europa Club website is at < http://www.europaclub.org.uk >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ntial door sill damage. WAS RE: Door latch push rods |
Hi! All
The first time I have a passenger get into my 'plane without my supervision
for them to "STAND ONTO THE SEAT" I will hang up my wings ! However I myself
use the side with my left arm to lift my bum up to the headrest before
getting out so the little bulkhead idea will certainly assist, with or
without the centre latch.
Nice one!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Roger Anderson wrote:
with 2-3 layers of bid or glassing a small wedge in the radius,
> > because this area really gets bent (especially when passengers step on
the
> > frame when entering the plane...)
> I stiffened the lower frame by cutting 3mm ply to make a small
> bulkhead in the space between the headrest and the lower sill. Before
> fitting the bulkheads the paint cracked in a horizontal lines about one
inch
> below the sill in the centre of the frame, but since fitting them there
has
> been no cracking in this area.
> Roger. G-BXTD.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Though you might be interested to know that I had a stuck throttle at approx
70% power and ended up having to do an engine off landing!!
Not a nice problem to have but the Europa behaved flawlessly as usual even
in the glide with no power.
Its a long story and I have put a write up on my website
www.ukmicrolights.com
I have let NSI and the PFA know. I don't believe there is a problem and
stick my hand up to not previously detecting this misplaced bracket would
end up causing such a problem! There's a photo and explanation on the web
page if your interested. I see no reason to panic but hopefully a
precautionary note to draw attention to correct fitting would probably be a
good outcome.
I have learnt something just like we all do in our home build community and
on a positive note was glad of the support I received from ATZ D&D etc as
well as now having even more confidence in my Europa and ability to land it
without an engine.
Thanks
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | nted Release Agent.! |
Hi! All.
Just wanted to share this info' with you ......at the expense of numerous of
you thinking I'm...................!
It's so helpful to know that when RELEASE AGENT does it's job but stays on
the gel coat instead of the mould don't spend hours trying to sand it off
and wrecking the gel coat BUT....... WAIT FOR IT........... try washing
it off with simple WATER ! (Don't even try acetone it attacks the gel coat!)
It pays to ask people in the know. It is water soluble which means I've got
at least I/2 dozen paintbrushes I can salvage! AND some KNACKERED GEL COAT
GLOSS FINISH! Don't bother e-mailing me that you knew anyway, thanks!
Regards to all .
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
The Kodiak weights list only "exhaust system", and that figure is the same
for all variants, which
is suspicious. On the other hand, the major difference between the 914 and
912S is the turbocharger,
which is also the muffler. The 914 is also probably the best direct
comparison to the J3300, so the
166.4 lb dry weight listed for it is probably fair. Again, it would be
wonderful if someone would publish
an accurate total weight for these engines as installed in an XS. Bob, you
fly a 3300; perhaps you could
oblige with a figure for your engine?
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
> Hi! Shaun,
> Does your Weight figures for the Rotax include the Muffler?
> I know the Jabiru figure does.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> It's very close. The total installed weight of the 3300, according to the
> website is 178lbs.
> The total installed DRY weight of the Rotaxen, according to Kodiak, is
140.6
> lbs. for the 912S
> and 166.4 lbs. for the 914. Add about 10-15 lbs. for fluids. I'd sure
like
> a definitive figure from
> the builder community...
>
> On the other hand, the Jabiru has to turn 3300 RPM to make 120HP, so it's
> more of a horserace
> at 2700RPM.
>
> Shaun
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> > Just a small side note. The fully installed jabiru 3300 is less weight
> > than the fully installed Rotax complete with cooling system.
> >
> > Joe
> > A086
> >
> >
> >
> > Shaun Simpkins wrote:
> >
> > Uhhm...a Continental up front? You might be better off considering an
> RV-9A.
> > The XS
> > is pretty much designed around the Rotax, and definitely around
engines
> > weighing less than 200lbs.
> > The Jabiru 3300 will fit, but it is pushing the weight limit.
> > The average Rotax-equipped Europa, according to Flightcrafters, comes
in
> at
> > around 850-880 lbs
> > empty with a useful load of around 500 lbs. That's about the minimum
for
> > two, full tanks, and luggage.
> > An engine 50-100 lbs heavier than the Rotaxes would make the Europa a
> nice
> > loaded-touring single-place ship.
> >
> > Shaun
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dwight Morgan" <morgandc(at)dwightandannette.us>
> > Subject: IO-240 and Super 200
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I have been lurking for awhile. I live in Washington state. I
> have
> > a couple of questions.
> >
> > Has anyone put a Continental engine in their planes? I was thinking of
> an
> > IO-240 or a Super 200. Would they fit? Would weight and balance be
> doable?
> > I guess this also opens up the can of worms with how everyone feels
> about
> > reliability of all of the different engines. Would the 914 have a
higher
> > ceiling that the IO-240 due to the turbo?
> >
> > Second, as I am looking at kit planes, two have risen to the top, the
> Europa
> > and the Pulsar Super 100. I like the efficiency and removable wings of
> the
> > Europa, but I hope that the Pulsar may have more cabin width at the
> > shoulders and allows more std engine options, and is a little faster.
> >
> > Thanks for your input,
> > Dwight
> >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > The Europa Club website is at < http://www.europaclub.org.uk >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Unless I am completely out to lunch, the installation manual for the
914 ( and the illustrated parts list on the Kodiak website ) indicate
that the turbocharger feeds directly into a muffler unit which is
available in several different lengths for various applications. The
muffler attaches to the outlet of the turbocharger without an intervening
tube. On the 912S, all of that junk hanging below the engine is a
muffler. On the 914, it's an integrated subsystem ( wowie, zowie! ).
So my argument is: the Kodiak website may not include the muffler
weight, but the 914 has it, so the 912S true weight is somewhat more
than what is posted there, but less than the 914.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> Shan wrote:
> >On the other hand, the major difference between the 914 and
> >912S is the turbocharger,
> >which is also the muffler.
>
>
> Really? I'm pretty sure that there is still the standard 912 muffler
haning under the engine, even on the 914. I believe the added wieght for
the 914 over the 912/912S is the turbo (and associated plumming and
controls).
>
> The Rotax listed wieghts lookd reasonable, altho I agree, it would
fantastic if someone could tell us the actual installed wieght of a Europa
install.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
> A239 dual-wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air-toair frequencies |
I drink to that, Ferg!
Hans
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Subject: Air-toair frequencies
> Bob,
> I started flying in 1948 and the choice of frequencies was
large
> and unfettered here then. In the intervening years, 'aviation' has been
> taken over (like so many similar pursuits) by ignorant interfering
> dilettantes whose sole purpose appears to be self-aggrandisement. Applying
> to these mandarins - in any country - will only be met by a wall of
> indifference because it is a big business which ordinary aviators (those
who
> aviate) couldn't possibly comprehend.
> The answer is to ignore them. Where you need to use 123.450,
the
> practice is not to give the callsign. True aviators are more cognizant of
> terse contact than any ground-based kiwi - and the use of radio freqs
should
> serve them first, others later. These numbers have been squandered in the
> past, taken from the true users and become power tools for the hungry.
123.4
> and 123.45 later were overwhelmed by bureaucracy during WW II and the
> control was lost thereafter. To my knowledge air-to-air frequencies are
> promulgated only to military units, the unknown and to those who pay
enough.
> Try to pass a word of caution to the guy four minutes behind you and see
> what a weary tangle the ground-bound weave. I've had traffic agents spend
> five minutes correcting and threatening after a 2-second burst
> pilot-to-pilot, and THEN repeat the news to the intended recipient for a
> further jamming, just to prove what the "correct method" is. It's
> "everything through me or nothing".
> Just do it.
> Ferg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
I have just taken delivery of my Skyforce 111C.
I was wondering how other have mounted the Skyforce into their panels?
I have looked at an 'official' rack mount kit which seems quite complex with
springs, catches, extra wiring & connectors etc. and weighing about half
again the weight of the Skyforce unit itself. This seems way OTT and I
wondered about making a mould of the back half of the unit, cutting out my
panel to the right size and mounting the moulded half inside the panel. The
unit would the sit snugly in the mould leaving the face almost flush with
the panel and I could then simply use sticky backed velcro to hold the unit
in place when needed.
Is this too simple a solution? Any other ideas very welcome.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS still trying to work out where all those wires go!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How Sacred Are the Sacred Six? |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Steve,
It all depends where you are going to fly. Here in Florida, the
summers are hazy and having a horizon to reference is very important.
Weather changes quickly and you can be caught. As an instrument
instructor for the Army 30 years ago (whew that's a long time ago!) I
found out that even with a full 6 pack, you can still loose it when it
gets rough. Vertigo is NO fun as it usually kills. Remember Kennedy.
He had some instrument time but when you loose all references to the
horizon, you have only a couple of minutes to live. If I sound a bit
scarry, its because I love flying and when it gets funky, all the fun is
gone. Ever flown at night when you have NO reference to the horizon. I
flew along the coast and when you head toward the ocean at night its not
neat. If you are very current its a no brainer but we all are fair
weather pilots (most of us at least) and .......... Have you tried the
vertigo machine at the Sun-N-Fun FAA hanger? It should make a believer
of you. At least there, you won't die from a mistake.
Even with the 6 pack, you must spend some time dual flying around
to get a little bit comfortable. I use to give 25 hours basic instrument
time and 25 hours advanced time. This would get you to the point you
could fly a VOR approach or a NDB (ADF) style. GPS is very good for
spatial orientation and to be able to see where you are. But again the
currency you get goes away quickly if you don't spend time keeping a bit
of currency.
Sorry for dwelling on this but I want to live to be 75 and still
flying. BTW, my 6 pack is a 5 pack. I use my gps for heading as it is
more accurate. Electric Horizon and a electric turn coordinator with the
usual altimeter and vsi. I got a special VSI that is a IVSI. It is very
sensitive to vertical speed. I used it in the military in our
helicopters which is fun during instrument conditions. Its called an
Instant Vertical Velocity Indicator. Found it available from the Kansas
area. A few phone calls got me to a supplier that had it.
BTW, if you have a problem with keeping the oil temp up, I bought
a oil temp control unit from Lockwood Aviation here in Siebring Fl. It
cost 50 bucks and I installed it last week end. I flew it yesterday in
the 50F weather and it brought the temp up to 184F and kept it there all
the time. Sure beats over cooling it as I was doing.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
29 hours and climbing
writes:
> Steve
>
> I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I want to
> keep my panel as simple as possible. An airspeed
> indicator and an altimeter will just about do it. A
> magnetic compass is required, but that is not a 'panel
> instrument' per se.
>
> Perhaps after a few hundred hours of day VFR flying, I
> might upgrade the airplane to night VFR and then to
> IFR. Also, by that time there is bound to be better
> technology, such as LED lights and better gyros.
>
>
> --- Steve & Eileen Genotte wrote:
> > I'm planning my panel (the Domestic Treasury Dept.
> > has released the
> > funding). Looking over the various posts regarding
> > panel builds and
> > aluminum cut-outs, I see a lot of references to the
> > standard "six pack" of
> > gyros, etc., which are required for IFR flight.
> > But!, the flight
> > instruments required for day VFR flight by FAR
> > 91.205 are an airspeed
> > indicator, an alitmeter, and a magnetic heading
> > indicator. Since I'm not
> > building an IFR aircraft, right there I've gone from
> > the Sacred Six to the
> > Thrifty Three.
> >
> > Now to really make things interesting...
> >
> > I've decided to get the microEncoder and
> > microMonitor from RMI. Reading the
> > specs on the microEncoder, I see it can display
> > airspeed, altitude, and
> > magnetic heading. Huzzah!
> >
> > So, as I read it, I don't need anything beyond the
> > microEncoder to satisfy
> > the reqs with regards to flight instruments, and the
> > microMonitor will cover
> > all of the engine system parameters the Feds deem
> > worthy of attention.
> >
> > Am I right? Can I have a main panel consisting of a
> > microEncoder ...and
> > nothing else (I might get a Garmin GPSMAP 295 to
> > help provide aesthetic
> > balance)?
> >
> > Mind you, I'm not asking if it's [stentorian tone]
> > a good idea
> > [/stentorian tone], just if it's legal.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Steve "I'd rather empanel a jury than plan my panel"
> > G.
> >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> > In the event of problems contact
> >
> > The Europa Club website is at
> <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How Sacred Are the Sacred Six? |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>>> I got a special VSI that is a IVSI. It is very sensitive to
vertical speed. I used it in the military in our helicopters which is
fun during instrument conditions. Its called an Instant Vertical
Velocity Indicator. Found it available from the Kansas area. A few
phone calls got me to a supplier that had it.
For those with a RMI uEncoder you can very nearly replicate an IVSI by
setting the VSI to maximum sensitivity and minimum damping.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
>Hi! Shaun,
>Does your Weight figures for the Rotax include the Muffler?
>I know the Jabiru figure does.
>Regards
>Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
It is never going to be possible to get acceptable efficiency from an air
cooled engine. They have to be liquid cooled too, only this time the
coolant is excess fuel, (plus oil cooling of course. The only way to cool a
piston is with oil.)
So, if you want an acceptable power to weight ratio you have to go liquid
cooled.
In practice all engines are air cooled, but to get a high enough heat
transfer rate from small surface area high temperature components, liquid
has to be used, which can then spread the heat into high surface area
radiators. That's the way I read it anyway. Could be wrong? We can
all make mistakes. Bin there, once too often!
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Door latch push rods |
>Graham-
>
>Please elaborate--I've never heard of the Jonti Docker door mod. Sounds
>like a good idea--where do we find this??
>
>Pops
Pops
Did you see my earlier reply? I guess it was never described properly
because of the strength considerations remarked on by Nigel. I still think
its OK, although a simple answer might be to put the peg on the door sill
and the recess in the door. The door has very little strength anyway. I
would strongly recommend boxing in the sill, it's definitely not rigid
enough and its needed for climbing in and out. Very little weight penalty.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: How Sacred Are the Sacred Six? |
>. I got a special VSI that is a IVSI. It is very
>sensitive to vertical speed.
>Jim Nelson
>N15JN
>29 hours and climbing
Jim
Is that similar to a glider variometer, (VSI)
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Berube" <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Just to correct some confusion on the 0-200 fitted to a Europa.
In 1997 I fitted an 0-200 (not I0-240) to the Tri-Gear demonstrator N496TG.
Due to managment changes in the UK office, the engine never got a proper
test. A decision was made that the only engine to be recommended would be
the Rotax. The I0-240 is a bit heavy for the Europa and does not make a
good candidate. Don't be confused with its use on the Liberty, they are
completely different aircraft.
The engine was lightened using dual electronic ignition, smaller oil sump
and alternator. Total weight 212 lbs without prop and oil. This was
tolerable in light of Subaru's of much heavier weights and still giving good
performance. Ivan flew the aircraft and reported excellent performance with
just some guesswork on proper prop pitch. (130 KTIA) The tri-gear was an
early version and was a bit nose heavy on the ground due to main gear fitted
2 inches aft of the current location. In flight, it was similiar to a 914
equipped aircraft. This engine was fitted with tuned headers designed by
Turbo Tom who insisted that it be ported, releived and balanced. It was
definitely a smooth running engine.
Jack O'Baar from Kerville , Texas has been flying his 0-200 equipped Classic
Monowheel for a couple of years. I haven't had the opportunity to speak to
him but I did hear that the prop he was using was not a good match for
engine and airframe. We are installing an 0-200 in Claud Tugwells Tri-Gear
in a few weeks and he should be flying by late summer. Prop is yet to be
determined but if using a fixed pitch, I recommend the Prince P-Tip.
The XS cowling will obviously not work with the 0-200 but the Classic
cowling will. I added 4 inches to the front of the classic cowling reducing
the spinner size from 14.5 in. to 12 inches and having normal sized air
intakes. A 4 inch prop extension was fitted to the engine giving the
cowling a sleeker appearance.
Bob Berube A166
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
> The certified version of the Europa - the Liberty XL-2
> ( http://www.libertyaircraft.com/ ) I think will have
> the option of a FADEC controlled IO-240...so it should
> be doable on both fit and weight & balance.
>
> The Liberty has the shape of the Europa, but it is scaled up 10 % is
> constructed differently, higher empty weght etc....
>
> Alex, #529
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Berube" <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-240 and Super 200 |
Pete,
Some time ago we did a weight check on the 914 installation and as I recall
it was between 190 and 195 lbs. It could be a couple of lbs either way but
I think its pretty close.
Bob Berube A166
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
> Thanks for the clarification Shaun (you are correct of course)...... now I
understand what you were driving at. There numbers do indeed seem to be
incomplete/misleading.
>
> It would be great to have the real numbers.... but I wonder how many folk
have acutally done a before and after weight measurement during their engine
install. Or at least weighed all the bits and pieces. Anybody?
>
> Cheers & apologies to all for my previous misleading reply,
> Pete
> A239
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> Unless I am completely out to lunch, the installation manual for the
> 914 ( and the illustrated parts list on the Kodiak website ) indicate
> that the turbocharger feeds directly into a muffler unit which is
> available in several different lengths for various applications. The
> muffler attaches to the outlet of the turbocharger without an intervening
> tube. On the 912S, all of that junk hanging below the engine is a
> muffler. On the 914, it's an integrated subsystem ( wowie, zowie! ).
>
> So my argument is: the Kodiak website may not include the muffler
> weight, but the 914 has it, so the 912S true weight is somewhat more
> than what is posted there, but less than the 914.
>
> Shaun
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
> Subject: Re: IO-240 and Super 200
>
>
> >
> >
> > Shan wrote:
> > >On the other hand, the major difference between the 914 and
> > >912S is the turbocharger,
> > >which is also the muffler.
> >
> >
> > Really? I'm pretty sure that there is still the standard 912 muffler
> haning under the engine, even on the 914. I believe the added wieght for
> the 914 over the 912/912S is the turbo (and associated plumming and
> controls).
> >
> > The Rotax listed wieghts lookd reasonable, altho I agree, it would
> fantastic if someone could tell us the actual installed wieght of a Europa
> install.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Pete
> > A239 dual-wing
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: mounting a skyforce |
Hi! Richard.
You don't say if your a/c is a trike or a mono? If the wheel redract handle
space is redundant it fits nicely ,vertically, in the recess, which gets it
quite a sunlight shaded home. Also if you wear light coloured bright clothes
don't have it exactly at an angle to reflect your clothes to your line of
sight.
The fix assembly they supply whilst heavy makes the unit readily detachable
for use with your flight planning kit on your computer at home. It also
allows you to remove the Skyforce unit for security when in "strange
places"! Although your plans sound quite secure against quick removal!
Make sure you don't have any reverse power feed on your wiring system and
also earth ground the mounting whether it is your own scheme or the rack
mount.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: mounting a skyforce
Richard Iddon G-RIXS still trying to work out where all those wires go!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.J. Gregory" <m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com> |
Congratulations, Kevin, on successfully dealing with an in-flight engine
emergency.
Thank you for taking the trouble to put all the details on your website,
together with your analysis. I commend this to everyone, and suggest taking
the time to think about what you would do if faced with a similar situation.
Remember that partial or complete loss of power may happen at any time, with
any type of engine. Although there are drills, such as checking for carb
icing or fuel starvation, while ensuring that you are not distracted from
flying the aeroplane, the cause may be as obscure as this one and there is
nothing you can do to restore normal power control.
If power is lost completely, then you are committed to an immediate forced
landing. When did you last practice this? Are you aware of the glide
performance in your current configuration? Remember that this can be
affected significantly by a stopped propeller, propeller pitch setting, high
or low all up weight, the presence or absence of spats/speed kit, etc.
As in this case, you may be left with a fixed power level so that you have
time to think (as Kevin did) how you can make best use of it to improve your
situation. Kevin chose transit to a large airfield where he had the best
chance of making a successful forced landing, while making good use of the
emergency services to clear the way and offer guidance.
Do take opportunities to practise forced landings. Use the biannual flight
with an instructor to pick up teaching points on your technique. Try
closing the throttle on a cross-country flight and make an approach to a
field (NB 500 feet) -- remember you should be planning to touch down
one-third of the way into the available landing space. Call up your home
airfield on your return, if they are not too busy, and ask for a practice
forced landing from overhead from 3000 feet or 2000 feet.
Fly safely
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
m.j.gregory(at)cranfield.ac.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Engine off!
Though you might be interested to know that I had a stuck throttle at approx
70% power and ended up having to do an engine off landing!!
Not a nice problem to have but the Europa behaved flawlessly as usual even
in the glide with no power.
Its a long story and I have put a write up on my website
www.ukmicrolights.com
I have let NSI and the PFA know. I don't believe there is a problem and
stick my hand up to not previously detecting this misplaced bracket would
end up causing such a problem! There's a photo and explanation on the web
page if your interested. I see no reason to panic but hopefully a
precautionary note to draw attention to correct fitting would probably be a
good outcome.
I have learnt something just like we all do in our home build community and
on a positive note was glad of the support I received from ATZ D&D etc as
well as now having even more confidence in my Europa and ability to land it
without an engine.
Thanks
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | sacred are the sacred six? |
A big Amen to James Nelson's decision to make the sacred six into five. The DI
is an expensive , time consuming, power consuming, heavy instrument which IMHO
has become totally useless with the introduction of the GPS. It puzzles me how
many new Europas still appear with a DI mounted alongside a very expensive GPS,which
probably has a built in HSI facility, offering everything a DI does and
loads more as well. David Joyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Sacred Are the Sacred Six? |
Hi Jim,
Just a comment on oil temps. The Rotax 'standard' oil temperature location
(just after the oil pump) is about the coolest point in your oil system. At
the return, into the oil reservoir, the oil temps are about 50 degF warmer
than that in climb, and about 40 degF in cruise, making a measured oil temp
of 184 degF about 224 degF at the hottest location in the oil system, at
cruise.
regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
James Nelson wrote:
> Steve,
>
> It all depends where you are going to fly. Here in Florida, the
> summers are hazy and having a horizon to reference is very important.
> Weather changes quickly and you can be caught. As an instrument
> instructor for the Army 30 years ago (whew that's a long time ago!) I
> found out that even with a full 6 pack, you can still loose it when it
> gets rough. Vertigo is NO fun as it usually kills. Remember Kennedy.
> He had some instrument time but when you loose all references to the
> horizon, you have only a couple of minutes to live. If I sound a bit
> scarry, its because I love flying and when it gets funky, all the fun is
> gone. Ever flown at night when you have NO reference to the horizon. I
> flew along the coast and when you head toward the ocean at night its not
> neat. If you are very current its a no brainer but we all are fair
> weather pilots (most of us at least) and .......... Have you tried the
> vertigo machine at the Sun-N-Fun FAA hanger? It should make a believer
> of you. At least there, you won't die from a mistake.
> Even with the 6 pack, you must spend some time dual flying around
> to get a little bit comfortable. I use to give 25 hours basic instrument
> time and 25 hours advanced time. This would get you to the point you
> could fly a VOR approach or a NDB (ADF) style. GPS is very good for
> spatial orientation and to be able to see where you are. But again the
> currency you get goes away quickly if you don't spend time keeping a bit
> of currency.
> Sorry for dwelling on this but I want to live to be 75 and still
> flying. BTW, my 6 pack is a 5 pack. I use my gps for heading as it is
> more accurate. Electric Horizon and a electric turn coordinator with the
> usual altimeter and vsi. I got a special VSI that is a IVSI. It is very
> sensitive to vertical speed. I used it in the military in our
> helicopters which is fun during instrument conditions. Its called an
> Instant Vertical Velocity Indicator. Found it available from the Kansas
> area. A few phone calls got me to a supplier that had it.
> BTW, if you have a problem with keeping the oil temp up, I bought
> a oil temp control unit from Lockwood Aviation here in Siebring Fl. It
> cost 50 bucks and I installed it last week end. I flew it yesterday in
> the 50F weather and it brought the temp up to 184F and kept it there all
> the time. Sure beats over cooling it as I was doing.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
> 29 hours and climbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: mounting a skyforce |
Richard,
I have not fitted a skyforce to my Europa yet but I have been through this
issue on my PA28.
I orginally fitted the complex "quick release" rack and found it a real
pain. I then constructed a simple ally back plate with a cut out for the
multipin connector and the aerial connector, with long enough leads so that
you can disconnect after release from the back plate, and held the unit in
place using the two spring clips that Sky force use on their other mounting
options. It works very well. I considered velcro, but you need to "peel"
velcro off, so it is quite difficult to get it to release if the unit is
mounted inside a box, as you suggested.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: mounting a skyforce
> I have just taken delivery of my Skyforce 111C.
>
> I was wondering how other have mounted the Skyforce into their panels?
>
> I have looked at an 'official' rack mount kit which seems quite complex
with
> springs, catches, extra wiring & connectors etc. and weighing about half
> again the weight of the Skyforce unit itself. This seems way OTT and I
> wondered about making a mould of the back half of the unit, cutting out my
> panel to the right size and mounting the moulded half inside the panel.
The
> unit would the sit snugly in the mould leaving the face almost flush with
> the panel and I could then simply use sticky backed velcro to hold the
unit
> in place when needed.
>
> Is this too simple a solution? Any other ideas very welcome.
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS still trying to work out where all those wires go!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Mike,
Thanks for the message. Its very difficult to feel I handled it correctly
when I feel I contributed to it happening in the first place!
Its very difficult to explain but I simply didn't contemplate that this
bracket was fitted incorrectly and therefore didn't foresee this happening.
I'm dam beating myself up over it if I'm honest and at the moment full of
mixed emotions about the whole incident and don't understand how I missed it
***In hindsight***
If your engine stops your committed your going down. Just hope the piloting
skills are right to a safe landing. Trouble with my problem was I had
options, this included right and wrong options.
Just to clarify I was very confident of making a safe landing at my
diversion destination and I didn't request the assistance of the Seaking or
fire trucks! I actually felt a little embarrassed about that, although at
one point 10 miles from Humberside I seriously thought the engine was ready
to stop and was grateful having the Seaking shadowing me. Also how that
bracket did NOT go past the carb I don't know. So I guess the chance of a
Engine out was very high.
I have already had a couple of critics say that they would have JUST made a
glide approach to my own base without diverting. With 700M of grass I would
agree I should be capable but there are some additional problems at our
base. Tress on finals 150M from the threshold a very wet surface, plus at
the time no one there to drag me out of a wreck if it all went wrong. I
would have put my odds of greater than 50% of making it but I prefer 100%.
I have since spoken to and thanked all those involved in helping me D&D the
crew of the Seaking and ATC who were great. Still looks like Humberside are
going to charge me a landing fee and overnight parking but guess I cant
complain.
One thing for sure the next available opportunity I WILL be practicing some
glide approaches and I have a list of action points to improve my drills
from this incident. Also I am searching for some data on glide ratios etc to
calculate height to distance glide data.
regards
Kevin
PS I still have every confidence in the Europa and NSI just not in my
ability to spot potential problems.
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Engine off!
Congratulations, Kevin, on successfully dealing with an in-flight engine
emergency.
Thank you for taking the trouble to put all the details on your website,
together with your analysis. I commend this to everyone, and suggest taking
the time to think about what you would do if faced with a similar situation.
Remember that partial or complete loss of power may happen at any time, with
any type of engine. Although there are drills, such as checking for carb
icing or fuel starvation, while ensuring that you are not distracted from
flying the aeroplane, the cause may be as obscure as this one and there is
nothing you can do to restore normal power control.
If power is lost completely, then you are committed to an immediate forced
landing. When did you last practice this? Are you aware of the glide
performance in your current configuration? Remember that this can be
affected significantly by a stopped propeller, propeller pitch setting, high
or low all up weight, the presence or absence of spats/speed kit, etc.
As in this case, you may be left with a fixed power level so that you have
time to think (as Kevin did) how you can make best use of it to improve your
situation. Kevin chose transit to a large airfield where he had the best
chance of making a successful forced landing, while making good use of the
emergency services to clear the way and offer guidance.
Do take opportunities to practise forced landings. Use the biannual flight
with an instructor to pick up teaching points on your technique. Try
closing the throttle on a cross-country flight and make an approach to a
field (NB 500 feet) -- remember you should be planning to touch down
one-third of the way into the available landing space. Call up your home
airfield on your return, if they are not too busy, and ask for a practice
forced landing from overhead from 3000 feet or 2000 feet.
Fly safely
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
m.j.gregory(at)cranfield.ac.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Engine off!
Though you might be interested to know that I had a stuck throttle at approx
70% power and ended up having to do an engine off landing!!
Not a nice problem to have but the Europa behaved flawlessly as usual even
in the glide with no power.
Its a long story and I have put a write up on my website
www.ukmicrolights.com
I have let NSI and the PFA know. I don't believe there is a problem and
stick my hand up to not previously detecting this misplaced bracket would
end up causing such a problem! There's a photo and explanation on the web
page if your interested. I see no reason to panic but hopefully a
precautionary note to draw attention to correct fitting would probably be a
good outcome.
I have learnt something just like we all do in our home build community and
on a positive note was glad of the support I received from ATZ D&D etc as
well as now having even more confidence in my Europa and ability to land it
without an engine.
Thanks
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: How sacred are the sacred six? |
>A big Amen to James Nelson's decision to make the sacred six into five.
>The DI is an expensive , time consuming, power consuming, heavy instrument
>which IMHO has become totally useless with the introduction of the GPS. It
>puzzles me how many new Europas still appear with a DI mounted alongside a
>very expensive GPS,which probably has a built in HSI facility, offering
>everything a DI does and loads more as well. David Joyce
Couldn't agree more.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Just trying to track down a source for:
Plastic curly stuff to go around the plug leads
And I'm dammed if I can find the cylinder that holds the brake fluid I
assume it must have one(trigear) and ideas?
Ta
Kev T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Eagle Has Wings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Hello to all,
As of 830AM this morning, my project to return me to the skies legally has
reached a huge milestone. The Europa A227 Mini U2 has flown. WHAT AN
AIRCRAFT!!!!! The name mini U2 is an excellent description. Using 100 HP vs
the max 115, it climbed at 1300 fpm at 90 knots and caused the 180 hp chase
Cessna to have to catch up. There were no problems - including engine temps -
and only a few squawks - prop vibration being one of them - instrument
vibration at high RPM.
I am exhausted and relieved. Thanks to all who have helped guide me and
provide advise. The airplane flew like a dream. I am so tired, I need to get
some sleep and wake up to insure I am not actually dreaming right now. I will
put a few pictures on the web site as soon as I can muster the strength!
Dave
A227
mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | uary 28 2003 - The Eagle Has Wings!!!!!!" |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Dave's mini-U2 has taken to the air!
I'm not sure why Dave has not let everyone on the list know - maybe he's
catching up on some sleep, but his details and pics are at:
http://hometown.aol.com/thevetgirl/page1.html (At the bottom)
Congrats Dave!
Cheers,
Pete
A239
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EAGLE HAS WINGS!!!!! |
Hello to all,
As of 830AM this morning, my project to return me to the skies legally has
reached a huge milestone. The Europa A227 Mini U2 has flown. WHAT AN
AIRCRAFT!!!!! The name mini U2 is an excellent description. Using 100 HP vs
the max 115, it climbed at 1300 fpm at 90 knots and caused the 180 hp chase
Cessna to ha e to catch up. There were no problems - including engine temps -
and only a few squawks - prop vibration being one of them - instrument
vibration at high RPM.
I am exhausted and relieved. Thanks to all who have helped guide me and
provide advise. The airplane flew like a dream. I am so tired, I need to get
some sleep and wake up to insure I am not actually dreaming right now. I will
put a few pictures on the web site as soon as I can muster the strength!
Dave
A227
mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ing and ventilation of cockpit - ? a simple method |
G-IMAB seems to run at too low a temperature in this winter weather, and inside,
we get very cold but the windows steam up. Being a cold-blooded individual,
I have not installed the naca ventilators as I don't want my knees or my kidneys
frozen.
So...I want to blank off some of the , already over-generous, radiator duct
at the back, and take a couple of pipes from behind the rearmost radiator the
short distance direct into the adjacent footwells. The ram effect of the throttled
rear of the radiator duct should force ample supplies of warm air into the
cab and the engine and the pilots should be comfortably warm.
My flying companion is uncomfortably cool about this proposition - he thinks
it would be a waste of time. What are the expert opinions of the Forum?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
I haven't received any e-mails from the forum in a couple of days. Did
everybody die or is the forum down?
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.K. Hallett III" <reddog(at)gbis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How sacred are the sacred six? |
Thanks for all the input on this subject. I too have been trying
decide, just what needs to be in the panel and the DI seems unnecessary.
Ralph
MG Reno, NV
david joyce wrote:
>A big Amen to James Nelson's decision to make the sacred six into five. The DI
is an expensive , time consuming, power consuming, heavy instrument which IMHO
has become totally useless with the introduction of the GPS. It puzzles me how
many new Europas still appear with a DI mounted alongside a very expensive
GPS,which probably has a built in HSI facility, offering everything a DI does
and loads more as well. David Joyce
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.K. Hallett III" <reddog(at)gbis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How sacred are the sacred six? |
Thanks for all the input on this subject. I too have been trying
decide, just what needs to be in the panel and the DI seems unnecessary.
Ralph
MG Reno, NV
david joyce wrote:
A big Amen to James Nelson's decision to make the sacred six into five.
The DI is an expensive , time consuming, power consuming, heavy
instrument which IMHO has become totally useless with the introduction
of the GPS. It puzzles me how many new Europas still appear with a DI
mounted alongside a very expensive GPS,which probably has a built in HSI
facility, offering everything a DI does and loads more as well. David
Joyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
Several of us are looking for eyeball vents to direct air to
various areas of the cockpit. These should be compatible with 1-1/2 or 2
inch diameter conduits. Since not too many cars use same anymore, I send
impassioned plea to the population for suitable sources of same.
Any suggested car models for spare bits gratefully received, as
women's driving school is just around the corner.......
TIA
Ferg
diesel Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net> |
Hi All,
The forum has gone silent on my end for the last two days. ??? Just wondering if
this thing is on.
Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | tions to factory builder support page |
Hi All,
A note to let all you Europa Clubbers know that, per your request, the text
of all current factory mods & service buletins is now posted on the factory
web page.
To access, click on the mod list under Builder Support.
Some more current mods have color photos attached.
If you don't have it handy, the Europa Web Page address is:
www.europa-aircraft.com
Happy Building & Flying!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 items - service bulletins on Rotax and |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Gary,
That's cuz I designed the cooling systems myself. Seperate oil
and seperate water. My Mono-wheel seems to tolerate the heat quite well
in my configuration. This coming summer will help to see how good it
is. Last fall with 90+ degrees, It seemed to do quite well. I think I've
got all the kinks out of the system so it should be just time now to get
to the magic 40 hours. I willl get Lee to do the rolls and loops so they
get in the logs before the 40 hours are up. Then its crusing time . I
have two small things to do yet. One is the 40 amp system into operation
and the other is the speed kit with my landing light.
Then again I don't have the 914 turbo to get things hot. You
might consider my cooling system for your a/c.to get things cooled down
I'm now getting a solid 183 deg. no matter what phase I'm doing
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Is the forum down?
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: List Activity |
Is it just me, or has the list gone quiet since the 28th?
Just checking.
Doug
1 valid command processed; it was successful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Welcome to the EUROPA-LIST at Matronics! |
Welcome!
This is the first message to the new Europa List at Matronics!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello all,
Just testing the new list...
SteveD
Europa A217
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Me too... :-)
Hello? Is this mike on?
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: ScramIt(at)aol.com [mailto:ScramIt(at)aol.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Hello all
Hello all,
Just testing the new list...
SteveD
Europa A217
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | anybody useing this for Europa? |
Anyone on the list with a flying Europa and 914 Rotax?
Kern Carpenter A123 N 9XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody useing this for Europa? |
Yes, Just done the 25hr service. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
>
> Anyone on the list with a flying Europa and 914 Rotax?
> Kern Carpenter A123 N 9XS
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: anybody useing this for Europa? |
Just did my 25 hour service and am at 31 hours. Overheating problem may
need to change the oil radiator to lower position. Have you done that? I
changed the air dam under the oil radiator to a forward position under the
coolant radiator. It runs much cooler but the oil is running hotter than
before(about 225). So far everything ok. The plane is fast, but seems most
comfortable at 5000x30 with 130K indicated. Mine has the Airmaster Prop.
here's my field.
Ken
www.SkyranchAirport.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
>
> Yes, Just done the 25hr service. David Joyce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Subject: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
>
>
> >
> > Anyone on the list with a flying Europa and 914 Rotax?
> > Kern Carpenter A123 N 9XS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody useing this for Europa? |
Ken.
It looks like a fun place!
Jeff
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> www.SkyranchAirport.org
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | anybody useing this for Europa? |
Hi! all.
I'm "on frequency " but haven't seen any messages that call for a reply yet!
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI Kit 337/Jabiru 3300.
(Supplier of Mod.10623 Tail Plane Torque Tube drive enhancment.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JW
Subject: Re: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
Ken.
It looks like a fun place!
Jeff
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> www.SkyranchAirport.org
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Prosser <skywrench007(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody useing this for Europa? |
I am a sailplane pilot and a thirty year aviator. Builder of sixteen
aircraft including a Moni and BG-12 in years past. No Europa yet.
The time is near and I'm ready to learn more. Hence the sign up for
the list. I don't think we will see much activity for a while. This
site is still very new. Don Prosser
--- kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Anyone on the list with a flying Europa and 914 Rotax?
> Kern Carpenter A123 N 9XS
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | anybody useing this for Europa? |
Hi! Don.
Nice to meet. This list is a little quiet yet but unless the original list
soon gets back up and running it won't be for long.!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa Kit 337 MKI /Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Prosser
Subject: Re: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
I am a sailplane pilot and a thirty year aviator. Builder of sixteen
aircraft including a Moni and BG-12 in years past. No Europa yet.
The time is near and I'm ready to learn more. Hence the sign up for
the list. I don't think we will see much activity for a while. This
site is still very new. Don Prosser
--- kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Anyone on the list with a flying Europa and 914 Rotax?
> Kern Carpenter A123 N 9XS
>
>
> messages.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | anybody useing this for Europa? |
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: anybody useing this for Europa?
>
> Someone else out here lurking!
> Hi Bob!
>
> Regards
> Gerry
>
> Europa 384 - G-FIZY Jabiru 3300 - Kremen CS Prop
>
> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 07:40 , R.C.Harrison wrote:
>
>> uk>
>>
>> Hi! Don.
>> Nice to meet. This list is a little quiet yet but unless the original
>> list
>> soon gets back up and running it won't be for long.!
>> Regards
>> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa Kit 337 MKI /Jabiru 3300
>
>
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 1249 700631 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information.
If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in error you
must
not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us immediately by
return email to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails are not
necessarily
secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in England with its
address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | How many USA Europas on this site thus far? |
just wondering...how many are flying? Anyone going to Oshkosh? My overheating
problem is apparently solved and I am thinking about it. Still have ten more
hours to fly, but that should not be difficult.
Ken N 9XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | How many USA Europas on this site thus far? |
Hi!Ken.
I'll be there, specifically at the Europa Stand Noon Local Wednesday24th
and Saturday 27th.
What Engine did you have cooling problems on?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net
Subject: Europa-List: How many USA Europas on this site thus far?
just wondering...how many are flying? Anyone going to Oshkosh? My
overheating problem is apparently solved and I am thinking about it. Still
have ten more hours to fly, but that should not be difficult.
Ken N 9XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: How many USA Europas on this site thus far? |
It is a 914. Think the problem mostly solved by moving the air dam forward
under the coolant radiator instead of the oil radiator. I watch it for a
while and may need to lower the oil radiator but for now it does not seem to
be overheating.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: How many USA Europas on this site thus far?
>
> Hi!Ken.
> I'll be there, specifically at the Europa Stand Noon Local Wednesday24th
> and Saturday 27th.
> What Engine did you have cooling problems on?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: How many USA Europas on this site thus far?
>
>
> just wondering...how many are flying? Anyone going to Oshkosh? My
> overheating problem is apparently solved and I am thinking about it.
Still
> have ten more hours to fly, but that should not be difficult.
> Ken N 9XS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | rough running engine |
has anyone with a 914 experienced the engine running rough at 7000'? I was up
today and when bringing the turbo in by 35" manifold pressure, the engine ran
a bit rough. It smoothed out when throttled back to 30", but I don't recall this
experience before. I am using aviation 100LL gas and TCP. I went to a lower
altitude(2500') and it runs smooth as a sewing machine at 35". Any ideas?
The prop was set for cruise at 5000 RPM. Am having a wonderful time with the
test flying. I tend to enjoy the flying so much that the testing not getting
done. We have had poor weather for getting up high and that prevents me doing
glide tests and high speed runs. Have not tried any loops or rolls yet, but
the day will come. Now decided about flying to Oshkosh yet,feels like I am
rushing things a bit.
Ken
A123 N9XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank inspection hole |
Hi all,
I am about to think about fitting a magnetic fuel level indicator,
(well, two really, and a more correct term is dripless sticks, one in
each side of the tank inboard of the headrests) and remember there has
been a mention of an access panel being made up between the two headrests.
What is the method, does one have to reinforce the area around the
cutout and are there any recommended maximum dimensions?
And how about the hole in the tank, which glue/sealant will stick to the
new type of tank?
Also, looking at the way the tank is installed, is there no danger of it
fretting against the structure, springing a leak over the years? I know
it is glassed in, but don`t believe that will hold it 100% in place and
then its also said the tank unbonds from the glass....I was thinking of
using something like blue-tack at strategic locations to reduce that
possibility and maybe get the bonus of improved acoustics, but I`m not
sure of the long term effect it might have on the plastic.... any thoughts?
Best regards to all,
Alex, kit 529
PS, I'm sending this to the new forum too, as it seems the old forum is
not going to work. Have tried to post messages there several times but
get them bounced back....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank inspection hole |
Hi Alex,
I thought long and hard about a similar approach and ultimately decided not
to put a hole in the tank. Andy at Europa advised against it because the
tank has no structural fibers like fiberglass so their is nothing to prevent
a crack from prorogating.
On the flip side, people who have done this tell me that the top is pretty
thick and unlikely to crack.
Paul (363)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel tank inspection hole
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am about to think about fitting a magnetic fuel level indicator,
> (well, two really, and a more correct term is dripless sticks, one in
> each side of the tank inboard of the headrests) and remember there has
> been a mention of an access panel being made up between the two headrests.
> What is the method, does one have to reinforce the area around the
> cutout and are there any recommended maximum dimensions?
> And how about the hole in the tank, which glue/sealant will stick to the
> new type of tank?
> Also, looking at the way the tank is installed, is there no danger of it
> fretting against the structure, springing a leak over the years? I know
> it is glassed in, but don`t believe that will hold it 100% in place and
> then its also said the tank unbonds from the glass....I was thinking of
> using something like blue-tack at strategic locations to reduce that
> possibility and maybe get the bonus of improved acoustics, but I`m not
> sure of the long term effect it might have on the plastic.... any
thoughts?
>
> Best regards to all,
>
> Alex, kit 529
>
> PS, I'm sending this to the new forum too, as it seems the old forum is
> not going to work. Have tried to post messages there several times but
> get them bounced back....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel probe location |
Why do the instructions for the Europa fuel gauge probe have you put it in
the reserve side? I would think you'd want to know what's in the main, and if
that runs out swap to the reserve and find somewhere to refuel. The main
could run dry with the gauge still reading 1/4 tank. This doesn't seem human
factored. I'm I missing something?
" 1) Drill a 1/2 inch hole for the probe. Centered under the passenger head
rest. "
SteveD
A217
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel probe location |
In a message dated 7/27/2002 5:28:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
> hy do the instructions for the Europa fuel gauge probe have you put it in
> the reserve side? I would think you'd want to know what's in the main, and
> if
> that runs out swap to the reserve and find somewhere to refuel. The main
> could run dry with the gauge still reading 1/4 tank. This doesn't seem
> human
> factored. I'm I missing something?
>
> " 1) Drill a 1/2 inch hole for the probe. Centered under the passenger head
>
> rest. "
>
> SteveD
> A217
> http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
>
I put mine in the left seat headrest. John at Europa implied that was a
mistake -- the recommended location on the right. I agree with your logic. I
have fuel in my tank today for the first time. I am chasing down numerous
leaks, but hopefully solving all of them permanently.
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel probe location |
My capacitance gauge is under the right headrest. does not matter which
side because when you set the scale, you first put 2 1/2 gallon in the tank
and call that "zero" and go from there. I would not trust my life to any
gauge. Fill the tank and keep track of fuel consumption and never cut it
closer than two gallons before needing the reserve.
Ken Carpenter
A123
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel probe location
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2002 5:28:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> > hy do the instructions for the Europa fuel gauge probe have you put it
in
> > the reserve side? I would think you'd want to know what's in the main,
and
> > if
> > that runs out swap to the reserve and find somewhere to refuel. The main
> > could run dry with the gauge still reading 1/4 tank. This doesn't seem
> > human
> > factored. I'm I missing something?
> >
> > " 1) Drill a 1/2 inch hole for the probe. Centered under the passenger
head
> >
> > rest. "
> >
> > SteveD
> > A217
> > http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
> >
>
> I put mine in the left seat headrest. John at Europa implied that was a
> mistake -- the recommended location on the right. I agree with your logic.
I
> have fuel in my tank today for the first time. I am chasing down numerous
> leaks, but hopefully solving all of them permanently.
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Fuel probe location |
Hi! Ken
You probably don't need me to remind you that with the initial 2-1/2 gallons
into the tank the first two galls of that will stay in the reserve side.]]
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel probe location
My capacitance gauge is under the right headrest. does not matter which
side because when you set the scale, you first put 2 1/2 gallon in the tank
and call that "zero" and go from there. I would not trust my life to any
gauge. Fill the tank and keep track of fuel consumption and never cut it
closer than two gallons before needing the reserve.
Ken Carpenter
A123
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel probe location
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2002 5:28:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> > hy do the instructions for the Europa fuel gauge probe have you put it
in
> > the reserve side? I would think you'd want to know what's in the main,
and
> > if
> > that runs out swap to the reserve and find somewhere to refuel. The main
> > could run dry with the gauge still reading 1/4 tank. This doesn't seem
> > human
> > factored. I'm I missing something?
> >
> > " 1) Drill a 1/2 inch hole for the probe. Centered under the passenger
head
> >
> > rest. "
> >
> > SteveD
> > A217
> > http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
> >
>
> I put mine in the left seat headrest. John at Europa implied that was a
> mistake -- the recommended location on the right. I agree with your logic.
I
> have fuel in my tank today for the first time. I am chasing down numerous
> leaks, but hopefully solving all of them permanently.
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I've heard that Kim is selling a new cowl for the XS. Does anyone know
anything about it? His web site is a few years old and I've received no
answers from the emails I've sent. Mainly I was wondering, if I could get the
Airmaster prop with Rotax belt driven alt. under it?
Thanks,
SteveD
A217
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider(at)pgtv.net> |
| Subject: | To List Moderator |
It is not necessary to send "blank" list digests to us out here in Europa
land. If there are no posts, don't send a message.......
It might be a law, I don't know.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists... |
Dear Listers,
I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email
lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and
there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight
and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day
intervals.
The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is
generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host
unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address
doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email
addresses each night.
The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single
message to each list member with specially generated headers and content
information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered
errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is
particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually
being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List
and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly
100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run.
To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email
Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that
everything is working fine now, simply go the Matronics Subscription page
and resubscribe your address. No harm, no foul. The subscription URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been
getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number
of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List.
A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a
wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge
criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection
Deferred) even though the address is really okay.
As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily
Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives"
and unnecessary unsubscribed.
Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities,
simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com,
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till
7PM
Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 27nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial
?ORF)
AWOS 118.375
CTAF 123.0
The weather will be a perfect Virginia fall day!
Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of
Airport Terminal
Schedule of Events
Fly-In Begins 9AM
Food all Day 10AM ? 3PM
Poker Run (Walk Around Field)
Project Visits on Field
Aircraft Judging 11AM ? 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics,
Homebuilts, Warbirds
Social Hour 4PM
Dinner 5PM ? 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks
Local motels/hotels are available
For More Information
Frank Toy 757-460-3680
ftoy(at)att.net
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743
rvreynolds(at)macs.net
EAA Chapter 339
http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/
Hampton Roads Exec Airport
http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02 |
All
Is there anyone reading this list? I just signed up a couple days ago and
have seen nothing so far.
I have 1500 hours in my build and hop to send it off to the paint shop soon.
Then the systems can be wired in and every thing made permanent. Hop to fly
next spring.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02 |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Cliff,
>Is there anyone reading this list?
Yes, but yours is the only message I have seen other than admin traffic in a couple
of months -- I had forgotten I had subscribed to it. I assume you are reading
the main Europa Forum List (forum(at)europaclub.org.uk) which is very active.
Best regards,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Shaw [mailto:flyinggpa(at)attbi.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02
All
Is there anyone reading this list? I just signed up a couple days ago and
have seen nothing so far.
I have 1500 hours in my build and hop to send it off to the paint shop soon.
Then the systems can be wired in and every thing made permanent. Hop to fly
next spring.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com,
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till
7PM
Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 13.5nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial
(ORF)
AWOS 118.375
CTAF 123.0
The weather will really be a perfect Virginia fall day!
Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of
Airport Terminal
Schedule of Events
Fly-In Begins 9AM
Food all Day 10AM - 3PM
Poker Run (Walk Around Field)
Project Visits on Field
Aircraft Judging 11AM - 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics,
Homebuilts, Warbirds
Social Hour 4PM
Dinner 5PM - 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks
Local motels/hotels are available
For More Information
Frank Toy 757-460-3680
ftoy(at)att.net
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743
rvreynolds(at)macs.net
EAA Chapter 339
http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/
Hampton Roads Exec Airport
http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02 |
Cliff.
This list got some action when the other one was down, but not much lately.
Having fun sanding?
Jeff
Cliff Shaw wrote:
>
> All
>
> Is there anyone reading this list? I just signed up a couple days ago and
> have seen nothing so far.
>
> I have 1500 hours in my build and hop to send it off to the paint shop soon.
> Then the systems can be wired in and every thing made permanent. Hop to fly
> next spring.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds WA 98020
> (425) 776-5555
> N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02 |
I have been reading the list every day but no comments lately. My Europa
has 75 hours thus far. It is in Florida getting an interior installed by A
to Z Interiors. Worked on the glider wings at Flightcrafters and will let
them finish the job. Hope to bring it all back to Knoxville, TN by middle
of November. I am pleased with the plane generally. The engine needs more
cooling in climb and on the ground. I think I will install a cowl flap upon
return home. The heat problem does not keep me from flying locally or to
Florida but it needs attention.
Ken Carpenter
A123 N 9XS Mono 914
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/14/02
>
> All
>
> Is there anyone reading this list? I just signed up a couple days ago and
> have seen nothing so far.
>
> I have 1500 hours in my build and hop to send it off to the paint shop
soon.
> Then the systems can be wired in and every thing made permanent. Hop to
fly
> next spring.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds WA 98020
> (425) 776-5555
> N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
Hi All,
Does anyone on this list know of a wbsite(s) that list flyin's ?
Thanks, Paul
Europa 363 http://europa363.versadev.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
The Club website at www.europaclub.org.uk lists fly-ins that I've been
advised of. If you know of any, please let me know and I'll get them added.
Anywhere in the world is good, although I might question it if offered the
likes of Ascension Island and Diego Garcia!
Regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Re: Europa-List: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Hi All,
Does anyone on this list know of a wbsite(s) that list flyin's ?
Thanks, Paul
Europa 363 http://europa363.versadev.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
I've just updated the fly-in list today, so if anyone else knows of any of
interest to Europa enthusiasts, please let me know.
Kind regards,
Jeremy Davey
Europa Club Webmaster
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
The Club website at www.europaclub.org.uk lists fly-ins that I've been
advised of. If you know of any, please let me know and I'll get them added.
Anywhere in the world is good, although I might question it if offered the
likes of Ascension Island and Diego Garcia!
Regards,
Jeremy
Europa Club Webmaster
Europa XS monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Re: Europa-List: EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Hi All,
Does anyone on this list know of a wbsite(s) that list flyin's ?
Thanks, Paul
Europa 363 http://europa363.versadev.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Semenuk <shsrv6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New Elect. Intl. Inst. Package for sale |
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, piper-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com.europa-list@matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, aviation-list(at)matronics.com
I am selling at a loss the following. $3200 and
they're yours, including shipping. That's
$650 less than you'll find anywhere and it includes a
fuel level gauge that is not included in most engine
monitors:
Brand new, never installed or used, still in original
boxes (opened only to inventory) Electronics
International instruments as a package only. Purchased
earlier this year. All necessary sensors and
transducers, wires, etc. are included.
1) UBG-16 CHT/EGT bar graph including 4 cht/4egt
probes and 1 OAT probe. Room for
7 other temperature/parameter readings.
2) FP-5L Fuel flow and pressure with GPS interface to
calculate fuel to destination
3) R-1 RPM including flight time
4) OPT-1 Oil pressure and temp
5) M-1 Manifold pressure
6) VA-1 Volt/Amp with 50 Amp external shunt
7) FL-2 Dual fuel level for resistance (standard
float) senders
Steve Semenuk
shsrv6a(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2002 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show much traffic the
Lists generated last year alone:
11/01/2001 - 10/31/2002
Web server hits: 8,700,000 (727,000/mo)
Incoming Email Posts: 51,259 (4,271/mo) *
* This number is multiplied by the total number of email addresses
subscribed to the given List. The actual number of email message processed
is in the 50,000,000 range for last year!!
The new Internet provider, Speakeasy, has been providing extremely fast and
reliable service over the last year, and this has certainly been a
refreshing change from previous providers!
There were a couple of new features added at the tail-end of last year
including the new List Browse Feature ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
), and the List Photoshare which have been both very popular. Many people
have written to say how much they enjoy the on-line browsing capability of
current week's messages. The 184 new Photoshares (
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ) added over the last year attests to
its acceptance and appreciation in the community as well.
I have upgraded both the email and web server OS systems recently to the
latest - well almost the latest - version of Redhat Linux and Kernel
2.4.19, both of which have been working very well and quite reliably.
What does the future hold? Well, something pretty exciting I'm
hoping... I am currently evaluating a new, commercially available software
package that runs under Linux and provides a complete web-based Email List
service akin to what those other guys use. The difference will be that
there won't be any annoying advertisements and popup ads on the Matronics
system!! The system will continue to be dedicated to furthering Lists
activities and not trying to sell you something you don't want. My hope is
to keep most if not all of the current functionality in place and add the
new software system over the top. Some of the system will be replaced
(like majordomo), but the lists will work much like they do today - only
BETTER! As I mentioned, I am currently in the evaluation stage of this and
have yet to select a final product. Suffice to say some facelifts are
definitely on the way!
Unlike many of the other "list servers" on the web these days, I have a
strict no-commercial-advertisement policy on the Matronics Lists and
associated List websites. I have been approached by a number of vendors
recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. However, my
commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment
prevails! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List
Service is to provide my members with a commercial-free, safe, and
high-performance system in which to share information, ideas, and
camaraderie.
I recoup my upgrade, maintenance, and operating costs by having a List Fund
Raiser once a year during November. During this time, I ask List members
to donate a small amount of money to support the continued operation of the
Lists over the upcoming year. Contributions in the $20, $30, and $50 range
are common. This year I have completely revamped the Contribution website,
and have added the ability to use PayPal to make your Contribution in
addition to the traditional Visa/MC and Personal Check Options. Its easier
and faster than ever before to make your Contribution!! For those who are
accustomed to using PayPal to make Internet purchases, will appreciate the
ease and speed of using this handy method of payment to make their List
Contribution.
The best news this year, however, is that I have a couple of fantastic Gift
offers to support the List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) will be generously donating a
FREE Jeppesen Flight Bag to anyone making a $50 or more List Contribution
during the Fund Raiser! This is a great bag and something you'll surely
what to get your hands on. Thanks Andy, for this great incentive!!
In addition to the great Flight Bag, I will also be offering a FREE
Matronics List Archive CDROM for a $50 or greater Contribution! This is a
complete set of archives for all Email Lists currently hosted by
Matronics. The Archives date back to the beginning of the each List. In
the case of the RV-List, for example, this includes archives all the way
back to 1990! That's about 133Mb alone! Also included on the CD is a copy
of Chip Gibbion's Windows Archive Search Utility and a precompiled
search-index for each archive on the CD.
Better yet?! You can get BOTH the Flight Bag AND the Archive CD for a
Contribution of $75 or more which is actually LESS than the combined retail
price on the two items!!! How can you go wrong? Get some great stuff AND
support your Lists at the same time!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR support!
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who supports the
List this year. Your generosity contributes directly to the quality of the
experience here.
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a Personal Check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as additional
information on the various methods of payment.
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Again, I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this
year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New List Digest Feature!! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've added a new feature to the Digest format of the Lists tonight. At the
top of each digest you will find a new Index Listing of all of the messages
found within that Digest including the Message Number, Subject, Poster, and
Time of Day posted.
I've also added a "Message Number" header to each message within the Digest
so that its easy to find 'just the message' you were looking for!
Sorry for the double posting of the digests tonight - the first time I
didn't quite have the code right and a few "bogus" entries made it into the
Index. I went ahead and reposted the Digest so that everyone could see how
the Index-to-Message mapping really worked.
Special 'thanks' to Gary Hall for not only suggesting a Digest Index, but
also supplying a few samples on how it might look. Gary, I think you'll be
quite pleased with the format!
Don't forget that were right in the middle of this year's List Fund Raiser
and if you haven't already made your Contribution, you own it to yourself
to check out the great free Gifts that are available this year with your
qualifying Contribution.
The Lists are operated completely though the support of it members, and so
its up to YOU to get that credit card out and make that $20, $30, or $50
show of support for the continued operation of the Lists.
Won't you take a couple of minutes and make a quick Contribution on the all
new, streamlined List Support web site? I've also added a
Payment-through-PayPal option this year, and this is proving a very popular
method of payment. Don't forget to check out the great free gifts you can
get with a qualifying Contribution this year. I can't believe how popular
they've been this year! Hurry and get your's today and support the Lists
at the same time!
Here's the SSL Secure URL for making your Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that's already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
already made a Contribution, won't you take a movement and show your
support for these valuable services? Since there's no advertising or other
forms of direct commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its soley
YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Won't please take a minute and make a Contribution via the SSL secure web
site via Credit Card, Paypal, or personal check. Here's the URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
This year, I've been getting some *really* nice comments from Contributors
and I thought I'd pass along a few of them below. What does the List mean
to *you*?
Thank you for your support!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
_________________ What your fellow Listers are saying... _________________
...great service!!
Greg B.
They have been a great assistance to me in building my RV-8.
Kevin H.
...very much appreciated.
Donald M.
Great site...
Angus F.
...invaluable resource.
Ronald C
[The List] has played a big part in continuing my project at
those times when I got stuck for some reason.
Jeff D.
Although I am only a reader, I find the list very helpful.
Oswaldo F.
The lists are a fantastic resource and are helping me very much...
Kenyon B.
The list is part of my life.
Ron C.
The CD will free up some hard disk space on my personal PC.
Jeff D.
...unbelievably useful.
Dan O.
...dependable and valued source of builder information.
Jerry C.
My daily lifeline!
Owen B.
...frequently get questions answered on the List.
Billy W.
Don't know how any first-time builder could get by without the lists.
Rick R.
...great source of information and motivation.
Jef V.
Super resource!
David P.
The information presented is very helpful to the building process.
James B.
Wonderful Service!
Wendell D.
The lists are great!
F. Robert M.
...very valuable to this builder.
William C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Marie Murillo
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder this morning that we're well into this year's Email
List Fund Raiser. Response has been great so far and there has been a lot
of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, I received a
sample of the Jeppesen Flight Bag from Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com this weekend, and let me just say that this is
an extremely fine quality unit. Its very light, folds down into a very
small form for storage, and will hold a whole lot of your "pilot
stuff"! For a mere $50 List Contribution, one of these very nice bags
could be yours! You'll be the envy of all your friends.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely
supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no
ads, no banners - just good clean fun; that is, with your support of course!
Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes
a minute using the newly redesigned Contribution Web Site where you can use
either a Credit Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation.
The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
And I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made
Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Wow, I can't belive some of the nice things people have been saying about
the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! I've
included more of the great comments since the last WLAS. Thank you to
everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
Have a look at some of your fellow members thoughts below and decide if the
Lists mean at least that much to you or perhaps even more...
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution to support these
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, high-performance List
services? Its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that
enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect of the
Matronics Lists.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
=====================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying - II ====================
=====================================================================
I check this List 4 to 5 times a day...
-Bruce B.
These are without a doubt among the best managed
Lists to which I subscribe.
-Terry W.
Thank you for providing such a wonderful service.
-Roy W.
...fine service!
-Christopher A.
Best list on the Internet!
-Geroge A.
Great list with a host of features.
-David A.
Having built part of a kit... ...I know exactly how
much this list means to me and others.
-Curtis H.
As always... you've got a real cool & very useful
service going...
-Chuck R.
I shudder to think of the trouble I would have had
getting this project airborne without this list!
-Grant C.
...enjoy everyone's input.
-Doug P.
I read the [the List] every day...
-Ronald S.
Whenever I feel like not building on my day
off....I open my mail and the [the List] gets me
pumped and ready to hit it!
-Tom E.
The Digest Message subject list is an excellent
addition.
-Kevin S.
Certainly the [the List] has been a valuable source
for building support and advice, but there's another
benefit,... the wonderful friends that we meet and
keep for years and years!
-Fred H.
What a great forum to exchange ideas and info.
-Terry L.
The List is my daily RV fix.
-Neil H.
I always received comments and suggestions when
I requested them.
-Thomas G.
Best resource a builder could ever have. A daily
must!
-Robert C.
Thanks for your gift - these web sites!
-Tom P.
...great info.
-Richard W.
The List empowers all RV builders to achieve success...
-Mark G.
I've been reading the postings for a month now and
decided to take the plunge as a result of the
helpfulness and spirit of cooperation I observed.
-Tim P.
...invaluable service.
-Ford F.
I check in at least twice daily for my e-mail "Fix".
-John S.
Its worth every penny of my contribution.
-Paul M.
Wonderful web site and it keeps getting better.
-Jim H.
A valuable list which has certainly helped me.
-Andrew G.
...the List helps so many.
-Don J.
I really appreciate the site and find it interesting
to speak to people who are into this type of aircraft.
-Larry M.
This is a great recreation for me.
-Larry B.
[The List] keeps me up to date and provides a fantastic
resource for information.
-Terry F.
Lists are a great resource!
-Daniel S.
...great service and professional administration of
the Lists.
-Chris R.
I really appreciate the List.
-Edward O.
Worth every penny, and then some!
-Kenyon B.
...great service.
-Ralph H.
Your unselfish contribution to the experimental
aircraft movement is very much appreciated!
-Alex M.
Great help on the Aeroelectric list.
-Bruce B.
It helps on a daily basis.
-Tim G.
Thanks for providing this outstanding service to us!
-Michel T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | LOC Coming Soon... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be
posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a
directory of everyone's name that made a Contribution during this year's
List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of publicly thanking everyone that so
generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these Lists.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking no doubt to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
o Take you to the previous post
o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message
o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message
You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
format! :-)
The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future
reference.
Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Georgia Europa Builders |
Anyone else in Georgia building a Europa? If so, Which model? What Engine?
How far along are you?
Just curious,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Georgia Europa Builders |
Doug,
You may find you're better off addressing this to the Europa Club list
(copied above) - it is considerably more active than this list, although it
is very international, so I assume you mean the current member of the USA,
rather than the former member of the USSR!
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Lawton
Subject: Europa-List: Georgia Europa Builders
Anyone else in Georgia building a Europa? If so, Which model? What Engine?
How far along are you?
Just curious,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/07/02 |
Jeremy,
Thanks, I was wondering why this list seemed stagnant.
Yes, I'm in Georgia, USA.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
Europa-List Digest List
Is anyone else on this list?
Ken Carpenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Europa-List Digest Server" <europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-14.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-14.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 12/14/02: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I'm here but nobody uses it now that the UK have sorted out the problems
they were having.
Have a Merry Christmas
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net [mailto:kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net]
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
Is anyone else on this list?
Ken Carpenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Europa-List Digest Server" <europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can be also be found in either of
> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes
> the plain ASCII version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed
> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-1
4.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-1
4.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 12/14/02: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
>
> Is anyone else on this list?
> Ken Carpenter
Ken Yes!
Gerry Holland in UK building XS Trigear.
70% done 70% to go.
Nothing very much goes on here for Europa.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 1249 700631 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information.
If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in error
you must
not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us
immediately by
return email to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails are not
necessarily
secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in England with its
address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
We have our ear to the ground.... If someone asks a question we're here to
answer.
SteveD
A217
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I'm listening.... but I must be hard of hearing ;-)
Cheers,
Pete
(Ottawa, Canada)
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net [mailto:kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net]
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
Is anyone else on this list?
Ken Carpenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Europa-List Digest Server" <europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
ASCII
> version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-1
4.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-1
4.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 12/14/02: 0
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
I think there are a few of us on this list, but the only time it saw any real
action was during the period that 'the other' list was down.
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Is anyone else on this list?
> Ken Carpenter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Europa-List Digest Server" <europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
> To: "Europa-List Digest List"
> Subject: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
>
> > *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02 |
Hi! All!!!!!!
Yes, I'm getting similar messages NOW but never any Europa Content EXCEPT
canvasing for contributions!
Regards and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JW
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
I think there are a few of us on this list, but the only time it saw any
real
action was during the period that 'the other' list was down.
kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Is anyone else on this list?
> Ken Carpenter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Europa-List Digest Server" <europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
> To: "Europa-List Digest List"
> Subject: Europa-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/14/02
>
> > *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/16/02 |
Hi gang,
Just curious, for this newbie, what's the URL of the "other" list in the UK?
Thanks,
Doug
XS Mono-Motorglider & Short Wings
Georgia, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 12/16/02 |
Doug Hi! from UK
Try either:
www.europaclub.org.uk
or
www.europa-usa.com
Gerry Holland
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Forum address [was Re: Europa-List Digest: 7 Msgs |
-
12/16/02]
>what's the URL of the "other" list in the UK?
Doug - just being pedantic, lists don't have URLs, they have e-mail
addresses. To join the list where all the worldwide Europa action is,
send any e-mail message to . The
list is indeed hosted in UK, but carries traffic from all over. Look
forward to seeing you there!
>XS Mono-Motorglider & Short Wings
>Georgia, USA
BTW, what's your kit number, please? As Club membership secretary, I
like to keep track of all Europas worldwide (see the website for more
data).
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/18/02 |
Rowland,
Thanks for the correction. My kit # is A245.
We've started the building process at Flight Crafters in Florida under the
expert guidance of Bob and Russell. I can't say enough about how
professional and knowledgeable these two are. They've made this first timer
feel very comfortable with the processes involved. And I'm sure we've
avoided many common mistakes with their experience.
We have both sets of wings fitted, the cockpit module of course is
installed, tailplanes are fitted, rear bulkhead is installed, flap & aileron
& speed brake ends are finished and we've started on the landing gear as of
the last trip down. Hopefully, we'll be bringing the short wings back home
the next trip down so that we can finish them here. It has been a very
educational experience so far! Can't wait to go back down to build some
more, but a major house remodeling project has us delayed a bit.
Doug
XS Mono-Motorglider & Short Wings
Georgia, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Magnus Matthiasson" <dofra(at)simnet.is> |
Hello everyone.
My name is Magnus Matthiasson and new on the list.
I orderd plans for the 601XL last week and hope to
start building early next year.
Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Happy Holidays
Magnus Matthiasson
Reykjavik
Iceland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Iceland |
>Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Magnus - what's a 601XL?
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Magnus Matthiasson" <dofra(at)simnet.is> |
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02 |
Hello Rowland
The Zodiac 601XL is a 2-seater from Zenith.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/index1.html
Regards
Magnus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Europa-List
Digest Server
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Europa-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-26.ht
ml
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-26.tx
t
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Europa-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 12/26/02: 2
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:08 AM - 601XL Iceland (Magnus Matthiasson)
2. 11:54 PM - Re: 601XL Iceland (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "Magnus Matthiasson" <dofra(at)simnet.is>
Subject: Europa-List: 601XL Iceland
Hello everyone.
My name is Magnus Matthiasson and new on the list.
I orderd plans for the 601XL last week and hope to
start building early next year.
Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Happy Holidays
Magnus Matthiasson
Reykjavik
Iceland
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 601XL Iceland
>Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Magnus - what's a 601XL?
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02 |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I don't think anyone in this list would have time to build a second
plane at the same time we're building our Europa kit aircraft :-)
www.europa-aircraft.com
From which this list gets its name.
Cheers!
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Magnus Matthiasson [mailto:dofra(at)simnet.is]
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02
Hello Rowland
The Zodiac 601XL is a 2-seater from Zenith.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/index1.html
Regards
Magnus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Europa-List
Digest Server
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Europa-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-2
6.ht
ml
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list/Digest.Europa-List.2002-12-2
6.tx
t
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Europa-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 12/26/02: 2
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:08 AM - 601XL Iceland (Magnus Matthiasson)
2. 11:54 PM - Re: 601XL Iceland (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: "Magnus Matthiasson" <dofra(at)simnet.is>
Subject: Europa-List: 601XL Iceland
Hello everyone.
My name is Magnus Matthiasson and new on the list.
I orderd plans for the 601XL last week and hope to
start building early next year.
Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Happy Holidays
Magnus Matthiasson
Reykjavik
Iceland
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 601XL Iceland
>Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
Magnus - what's a 601XL?
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Iceland |
>The Zodiac 601XL is a 2-seater from Zenith
Magnus - OK, I understand that bit. In that case, you want to be on a
different e-mail list (unless you're building a Europa as well???).
I'm sure the Zenith website has pointers to a builder list, just as
the Europa websites do.
This list here is dedicated to the Europa kitplane, which is mostly
made out of glass-fibre, so it won't have much in common with yours,
which I think is mostly made from metal.
Incidentally, you'll probably find that once you locate the right
list, people will be a lot more friendly if you don't quote the
entire contents of the last digest back when replying (like you did
on the message I'm replying to now). Edit out everything except
what's essential to establishing the context of your reply, just as I
have done in this message - note I quoted only one line of your
posting. It's also very helpful if you change the subject line to
something meaningful (as I have also done here) - leaving it as "RE:
Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02" does not help anyone and is
likely to mean your message will be ignored by many people.
Happy building!
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pradeep Datta" <p.datta(at)tastomat.de> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/26/02 |
Hi Magnus,
I think you're barking up the wrong tree .
The Zodiac people have a different list called the Zenith-List.
I'm getting the german version called the 601 DX but it is being made by the importer
and being handed over to me in April (I
hope)
When you are done with your XL, most welcome to fly it down to me (Berlin, Germany),
then we can compare the XL and the
DX Versions.
Pradeep
>Hello everyone.
>
>My name is Magnus Matthiasson and new on the list.
>I orderd plans for the 601XL last week and hope to
>start building early next year.
>Is there anyone else out there building a 601XL?
>
>Happy Holidays
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | New purchase of monowheel kit |
Hello Europa-List
Have an order in for a monowheel A-265 from Lakeland FL with my partner
Wayne.
We are purchasing with accelerated tailfeather and cockpit. Will wait
for purchase of firewall fwd. Leaning towards the 914.
Primary use off paved and grass strips.
Any help or suggestions on decisions that we should be making now would
be greatly appriciated.
Options we are probably going to make:
Considering a 7:00 tire, is there an opinion as to make an 8:00 fit on
the build??
Purchase water Drains
Purchase Float type fuel guages
Install a Aileron trim servo
Purchase a standard thickness non bubble window solar gray with 2 hinged
vents
purchase speed kit
At this point we want to join your club and have a E-Mail to:
memsec(at)europaclub.org.uk
Hello Rowland Carson
My name is
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage Drive
Kings Park, NY 11754 USA
I just put in an order for a Monowheel with speed wings from Lakeland
Florida. Kit# A265
I wish to join The Europa Club.
How do I do so?
Can I pay by check?
If not can I pay by mastercard or Visa?
Thanks for any and all help/suggestions
Sincerly
Ron Parigoris
PS my partner Wayne is really into X-Plane. He has a 914 powered
Monowheel he put together. He is just about complete with it.
Anybody out there with over a hundred hours in a Europa and familiar
with X-Plane to critique it???
He can easily convert to "UNCONVENTIONAL Gear" and "ABNORMALLY
Aspirated".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hello Europa-List
I don't know if this group accepts pics, but here it goes for a try.
This is a sample of Waynes My-Ropa 914 with CS Airmaster Speed Wing
Monowheel XS
Sincerly
Ron Parigoris
My partner Wayne is really into X-Plane. He has a 914 powered
Monowheel he put together. He is just about complete with it.
Anybody out there with over a hundred hours in a Europa and familiar
with X-Plane to critique it???
He can easily convert to "UNCONVENTIONAL Gear" and "ABNORMALLY
Aspirated".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: X-Plane My-Ropa |
OK gonna send photo of X-Plane My-Ropa to
Photo Share:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Will see if that works.
Ron Parigoris
Ron Parigoris wrote:
>
>
> Hello Europa-List
>
> I don't know if this group accepts pics, but here it goes for a try.
>
> This is a sample of Waynes My-Ropa 914 with CS Airmaster Speed Wing
> Monowheel XS
>
> Sincerly
> Ron Parigoris
>
> My partner Wayne is really into X-Plane. He has a 914 powered
> Monowheel he put together. He is just about complete with it.
>
> Anybody out there with over a hundred hours in a Europa and familiar
> with X-Plane to critique it???
>
> He can easily convert to "UNCONVENTIONAL Gear" and "ABNORMALLY
> Aspirated".
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | X-Plane My-Ropa photo think i got it |
Sent photo to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
>Have an order in for a monowheel A-265 from Lakeland FL with my partner
>Any help or suggestions on decisions that we should be making now would
>be greatly appriciated.
Ron - this e-mail list is moribund (normally no traffic). The Europa
discussion takes place on the Europa Forum, run by The Europa Club.
To join, send any e-mail message (even an empty one) to
(note the instructions you will
receive in return) and you will receive all Forum traffic thereafter.
You can submit pictures to the list minder for display along with the
many others already there.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (460 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New books for Homebuilders |
| From: | sonja.englert(at)juno.com |
Hi everyone,
I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer,
pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane
homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com.
They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone
who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane.
Cheers,
Sonja Englert
www.caroengineering.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
QnV0IHRoYXQncyB3aGVuIHRoZSBFdXJvcGEgRm9ydW0gaXMgYWN0dWFsbHkgcnVubmluZyEgIDst
KQ0KIA0KU2VlbXMgdGhhdCBpdCdzIGRvd24geWV0IGFnYWluLg0KIA0KQlRXLCAgRGF2ZSBoYXMg
bWFkZSBoaXMgZmlyc3QgZmxpZ2h0IGluIGhpcyBNRyEgDQpTZWUgKG5lYXIgdGhlIGJvdHRvbSk6
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b3BhLUxpc3Q6IE5ldyBwdXJjaGFzZSBvZiBtb25vd2hlZWwga2l0DQoJDQoJDQoNCglSb24gLSB0
aGlzIGUtbWFpbCBsaXN0IGlzIG1vcmlidW5kIChub3JtYWxseSBubyB0cmFmZmljKS4gVGhlIEV1
cm9wYQ0KCWRpc2N1c3Npb24gdGFrZXMgcGxhY2Ugb24gdGhlIEV1cm9wYSBGb3J1bSwgcnVuIGJ5
IFRoZSBFdXJvcGEgQ2x1Yi4NCgkNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
QnV0IHRoYXQncyB3aGVuIHRoZSBFdXJvcGEgRm9ydW0gaXMgYWN0dWFsbHkgcnVubmluZyEgIDst
KQ0KIA0KU2VlbXMgdGhhdCBpdCdzIGRvd24geWV0IGFnYWluLg0KIA0KQlRXLCAgRGF2ZSBoYXMg
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
All
Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting lots of traffic up till
Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Down again I figure :-(
Too bad more folks don't use this list.... much more reliable.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Shaw [mailto:flyinggpa(at)attbi.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
All
Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting lots of
traffic up till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
And I thought I was just being paranoid!
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Shaw
Cc:=09
Subject: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
All
Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting lots of
traffic up till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Is The UK list off the air? |
>
> All
>
> Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting lots of traffic up
till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
The server is bust again (!).
John Cliff
(from another world ...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Ludeman" <bruce(at)justbruce.com> |
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
All,
First let me say that I appreciate the time and efforts of
the people who spend time managing the "old" Europa-Forum.
My hobby is building a Europa, whereas those who support
this list with their time and efforts choose to spend their
hobby-time supporting and managing list-servers.
Because it is a hobby for them, my opinion is that issues
other than reliability, security, speed, attachment
filtering, and ease of list management are the basis for
continuing with list-hosting by AvNet.
At one time, I felt strongly that the Europa-Forum managers
would certainly like to dump their list-hosting burden and,
like me, spend their time on their Europas. With that in
mind, I talked to Matt at Matronics regarding his ability
and willingness to host the old Europa-Forum. As a
participant in some of the other aviation lists that he
hosts on his servers, I was able to experience the extremely
reliable and spam-free hosting-service that he voluntarily
provides to the home-built community.
Needless to say, Matt was extremely anxious to work with us
and I informed the Europa-Forum manager of Matt's interest.
Matt, in his enthusiasm, actually put up the "new"
Europa-List on his servers prior to any agreement from the
Europa-Forum that they would switch.
Obviously the switch-over was never made, and the stated
reason as I recall was some issue with the software that
Matt uses (or may have used) on his servers. After
reflecting on the basis for their decision, I concluded that
a switch would kill their hobby. I can relate to that
decision since, like them, I have no interest in having an
expert build my Europa as doing so would kill the hobby
aspect of my endeavors.
The choice remains -- continuing with hobbyists whose
efforts we appreciate, or switching to a extremely
successful, professionally run organization (Matronics) that
specializes in hosting aviation-related lists.
Just my opinion.
Bruce
XS142
Tracy, California
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John Cliff
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
>
> All
>
> Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting
lots of traffic up
till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
The server is bust again (!).
John Cliff
(from another world ...)
============
Contributions
other
============
messages.
members.
============
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
Hi! Peter.
The UK List is off the air due to server problems but the Matronics list is
putting your messages through in computer "goble d' gook!"
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
Zutrauen
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
Bruce,
What about other options???
I am on 5 other Egroups. All aviation based and all with Yahoo groups. They
are extremely reliable you don't get Spam, well I don't and you don't get
adds unless you read on line and you don't get begging letters asking for
cash to support it. I guess there must be a downside somewhere but I don't
remember seeing it.
It doesn't take any managing at all you can have a moderator and his job is
to chuck off anyone that steps out of line. You have a files section for
posting pictures and loads of stuff like on line calendars.
Maybe I'm bias towards Yahoo but that's because I have seen it run so well
for ages.
Take the BMAA microlight group moderated by the British Microlight Aircraft
Association with over 500 members and I don't remember it going down once in
18 months since I joined.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Ludeman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
All,
First let me say that I appreciate the time and efforts of
the people who spend time managing the "old" Europa-Forum.
My hobby is building a Europa, whereas those who support
this list with their time and efforts choose to spend their
hobby-time supporting and managing list-servers.
Because it is a hobby for them, my opinion is that issues
other than reliability, security, speed, attachment
filtering, and ease of list management are the basis for
continuing with list-hosting by AvNet.
At one time, I felt strongly that the Europa-Forum managers
would certainly like to dump their list-hosting burden and,
like me, spend their time on their Europas. With that in
mind, I talked to Matt at Matronics regarding his ability
and willingness to host the old Europa-Forum. As a
participant in some of the other aviation lists that he
hosts on his servers, I was able to experience the extremely
reliable and spam-free hosting-service that he voluntarily
provides to the home-built community.
Needless to say, Matt was extremely anxious to work with us
and I informed the Europa-Forum manager of Matt's interest.
Matt, in his enthusiasm, actually put up the "new"
Europa-List on his servers prior to any agreement from the
Europa-Forum that they would switch.
Obviously the switch-over was never made, and the stated
reason as I recall was some issue with the software that
Matt uses (or may have used) on his servers. After
reflecting on the basis for their decision, I concluded that
a switch would kill their hobby. I can relate to that
decision since, like them, I have no interest in having an
expert build my Europa as doing so would kill the hobby
aspect of my endeavors.
The choice remains -- continuing with hobbyists whose
efforts we appreciate, or switching to a extremely
successful, professionally run organization (Matronics) that
specializes in hosting aviation-related lists.
Just my opinion.
Bruce
XS142
Tracy, California
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John Cliff
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
>
> All
>
> Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting
lots of traffic up
till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
The server is bust again (!).
John Cliff
(from another world ...)
============
Contributions
other
============
messages.
members.
============
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
============
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Bruce & group,
With myself being relatively new to the community, I'd really like to
avoid ruffling any feathers - but I whole-heartedly agree with your
comments.
Beyond the fact that the matronics list is very reliable, with the
Matronics lists being the defacto-standard for North-American builders,
from a marketing perspective having an active matronics Europa-list
would be very helpful in educating the US/Canada builder community about
this great plane. Who knows, maybe the North American #'s would increase
as a result! With the massive numbers of pilots in NA, it's a real
shame that there are so few Europas. I realize that the rotax vs
lycoming issue is a big part of the Europa's lack of penetration in the
NA market, but an active builder's list sure wouldn't hurt. In fact,
with the high quality of the Europa Lister's postings and the very
helpful nature of the crowd, I have to think it would help greatly in
bringing in more NA homebuilders to this great plane.
Just my $0.02 (or $0.013 Canadian)
Cheers,
Pete
A239 dual-wing
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Ludeman [mailto:bruce(at)justbruce.com]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
All,
First let me say that I appreciate the time and efforts of
the people who spend time managing the "old" Europa-Forum.
My hobby is building a Europa, whereas those who support
this list with their time and efforts choose to spend their
hobby-time supporting and managing list-servers.
Because it is a hobby for them, my opinion is that issues
other than reliability, security, speed, attachment
filtering, and ease of list management are the basis for
continuing with list-hosting by AvNet.
At one time, I felt strongly that the Europa-Forum managers
would certainly like to dump their list-hosting burden and,
like me, spend their time on their Europas. With that in
mind, I talked to Matt at Matronics regarding his ability
and willingness to host the old Europa-Forum. As a
participant in some of the other aviation lists that he
hosts on his servers, I was able to experience the extremely
reliable and spam-free hosting-service that he voluntarily
provides to the home-built community.
Needless to say, Matt was extremely anxious to work with us
and I informed the Europa-Forum manager of Matt's interest.
Matt, in his enthusiasm, actually put up the "new"
Europa-List on his servers prior to any agreement from the
Europa-Forum that they would switch.
Obviously the switch-over was never made, and the stated
reason as I recall was some issue with the software that
Matt uses (or may have used) on his servers. After
reflecting on the basis for their decision, I concluded that
a switch would kill their hobby. I can relate to that
decision since, like them, I have no interest in having an
expert build my Europa as doing so would kill the hobby
aspect of my endeavors.
The choice remains -- continuing with hobbyists whose
efforts we appreciate, or switching to a extremely
successful, professionally run organization (Matronics) that
specializes in hosting aviation-related lists.
Just my opinion.
Bruce
XS142
Tracy, California
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John Cliff
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
>
> All
>
> Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting
lots of traffic up
till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
The server is bust again (!).
John Cliff
(from another world ...)
============
Contributions
other
============
messages.
members.
============
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Hi Bob,
Actually, the issue was with my Outlook web-access settings (I was
accessing my Company Email account from a remote location using a web
browser). The issue was at my end.
Altho Matt may have been able to work around my settings anyway.
Cheers!
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
Hi! Peter.
The UK List is off the air due to server problems but the Matronics list
is
putting your messages through in computer "goble d' gook!"
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
Zutrauen
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Ludeman" <bruce(at)justbruce.com> |
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your thoughts.
I also am a subscriber to a couple of lists hosted by Yahoo
and like you; I have had no problems with their service. It
is certainly an acceptable option for me, but it an option
that I believe was flogged by others on the Europa-Forum
last year when someone proposed switching to it.
Despite being a Yahoo stockholder, I still have a preference
for Matronics because of Matt's dedication and focus on the
aviation community. Matt does have his optional annual fund
raiser that you need to contend with, but that is the nature
of user-supported services.
Regards,
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kevin Taylor
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
Bruce,
What about other options???
I am on 5 other Egroups. All aviation based and all with
Yahoo groups. They
are extremely reliable you don't get Spam, well I don't and
you don't get
adds unless you read on line and you don't get begging
letters asking for
cash to support it. I guess there must be a downside
somewhere but I don't
remember seeing it.
It doesn't take any managing at all you can have a moderator
and his job is
to chuck off anyone that steps out of line. You have a files
section for
posting pictures and loads of stuff like on line calendars.
Maybe I'm bias towards Yahoo but that's because I have seen
it run so well
for ages.
Take the BMAA microlight group moderated by the British
Microlight Aircraft
Association with over 500 members and I don't remember it
going down once in
18 months since I joined.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce
Ludeman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
All,
First let me say that I appreciate the time and efforts of
the people who spend time managing the "old" Europa-Forum.
My hobby is building a Europa, whereas those who support
this list with their time and efforts choose to spend their
hobby-time supporting and managing list-servers.
Because it is a hobby for them, my opinion is that issues
other than reliability, security, speed, attachment
filtering, and ease of list management are the basis for
continuing with list-hosting by AvNet.
At one time, I felt strongly that the Europa-Forum managers
would certainly like to dump their list-hosting burden and,
like me, spend their time on their Europas. With that in
mind, I talked to Matt at Matronics regarding his ability
and willingness to host the old Europa-Forum. As a
participant in some of the other aviation lists that he
hosts on his servers, I was able to experience the extremely
reliable and spam-free hosting-service that he voluntarily
provides to the home-built community.
Needless to say, Matt was extremely anxious to work with us
and I informed the Europa-Forum manager of Matt's interest.
Matt, in his enthusiasm, actually put up the "new"
Europa-List on his servers prior to any agreement from the
Europa-Forum that they would switch.
Obviously the switch-over was never made, and the stated
reason as I recall was some issue with the software that
Matt uses (or may have used) on his servers. After
reflecting on the basis for their decision, I concluded that
a switch would kill their hobby. I can relate to that
decision since, like them, I have no interest in having an
expert build my Europa as doing so would kill the hobby
aspect of my endeavors.
The choice remains -- continuing with hobbyists whose
efforts we appreciate, or switching to a extremely
successful, professionally run organization (Matronics) that
specializes in hosting aviation-related lists.
Just my opinion.
Bruce
XS142
Tracy, California
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John Cliff
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Is The UK list off the air?
>
> All
>
> Is the Europs list from the UK off the air? I was getting
lots of traffic up
till Sunday. Tow days without a thing. What is happening?
The server is bust again (!).
John Cliff
(from another world ...)
============
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============
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http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
============
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Contributions
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messages.
members.
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Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is The UK list off the air? |
All.
As I recall, we already had the 'Yahoo option' discussion a while back.
I have belonged to a couple Yahoo groups, but only because that was where
they were. To me there was very to like about Yahoo. I'd vote no on that.
If (big if) the other Europa list were to give it up, I'd vote for the
Matronics option.
Jeff
Bruce Ludeman wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Thank you for your thoughts.
>
> I also am a subscriber to a couple of lists hosted by Yahoo
> and like you; I have had no problems with their service. It
> is certainly an acceptable option for me, but it an option
> that I believe was flogged by others on the Europa-Forum
> last year when someone proposed switching to it.
>
> Despite being a Yahoo stockholder, I still have a preference
> for Matronics because of Matt's dedication and focus on the
> aviation community. Matt does have his optional annual fund
> raiser that you need to contend with, but that is the nature
> of user-supported services.
>
> Regards,
> Bruce
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
What's the big panic!
So the UK mail server is off the air, computer systems fail sometimes.
They'll fix it, we'll all start sending messages again. Life will go on.
In the meantime, we have planes to build and fly (or both :)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Is The UK list off the air? |
[Second time of sending, because the first was rejected by the list server as
it had a particular word (subscribe) at the beginning of a line.]
> > All,
> >
> > First let me say that I appreciate the time and efforts of
> > the people who spend time managing the "old" Europa-Forum.
> > My hobby is building a Europa, whereas those who support
> > this list with their time and efforts choose to spend their
> > hobby-time supporting and managing list-servers.
>
Thank you.
>
> > Because it is a hobby for them, my opinion is that issues
> > other than reliability, security, speed, attachment
> > filtering, and ease of list management are the basis for
> > continuing with list-hosting by AvNet.
> >
> > At one time, I felt strongly that the Europa-Forum managers
> > would certainly like to dump their list-hosting burden and,
> > like me, spend their time on their Europas.
>
Just to state the facts. The 'old' list is run by Aviators Network, a
professional ISP specialising in the aviation field. It was started in 1996
and
Avnet offered to, and have continued to, host it for free. The Europa Club
people concerned with it, principally myself, have no part in its operation -
except for specification of attachment filtering, which is not unlike that used
on the Matronics lists. I can assure you that if I were able to manage and
support it directly it certainly wouldn't be giving erratic service ! My
power
is limited to the ability to approve or deny postings from non-subscribers, to
ssubscribe and unsubscribe people manually (useful when old addresses nolonger
exist) and intervening in non-delivery situations, bounces. I also try to>
offer help and advice with using the list when asked and run a personal website
for pictures and other files relevant to list conversations, for peolple who
don't run their own.
>
> > With that in
> > mind, I talked to Matt at Matronics regarding his ability
> > and willingness to host the old Europa-Forum. As a
> > participant in some of the other aviation lists that he
> > hosts on his servers, I was able to experience the extremely
> > reliable and spam-free hosting-service that he voluntarily
> > provides to the home-built community.
> >
> > Needless to say, Matt was extremely anxious to work with us
> > and I informed the Europa-Forum manager of Matt's interest.
> > Matt, in his enthusiasm, actually put up the "new"
> > Europa-List on his servers prior to any agreement from the
> > Europa-Forum that they would switch.
>
I, too, talked to Matt (about 16 months ago) and he readily agreed to create a
Europa list for us if requested. In the event, the Europa Club wished to
continue with Avnet (with greatly improved software) and I told Matt that. I
haven't heard from him since and don't believe he expected a mass switchover.
> > Obviously the switch-over was never made, and the stated
> > reason as I recall was some issue with the software that
> > Matt uses (or may have used) on his servers.
>
We would have had no issue with Matt's software (or with the exemplary way he
runs his operation).
> > After
> > reflecting on the basis for their decision, I concluded that
> > a switch would kill their hobby. I can relate to that
> > decision since, like them, I have no interest in having an
> > expert build my Europa as doing so would kill the hobby
> > aspect of my endeavors.
>
As wil have been seen, it is not a hobby. It is in fact a bit of a burden. I
do it to put a bit back in return for the advice we all get from more
experienced builders.
> > The choice remains -- continuing with hobbyists whose
> > efforts we appreciate, or switching to a extremely
> > successful, professionally run organization (Matronics) that
> > specializes in hosting aviation-related lists.
>
One thing that weighs with us is that in the event of a split both 'sides'
would
be losers. It is in all our interests that the user community remain united
(for technical discussions, not talking about social matters).
John Cliff
(sort-of-administrator of the 'old' list)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is The UK list off the air? |
At 01:30 AM 2/1/2003 Saturday, you wrote:
>
> I, too, talked to Matt (about 16 months ago) and he readily agreed to
> create a
> Europa list for us if requested. In the event, the Europa Club wished to
> continue with Avnet (with greatly improved software) and I told Matt
> that. I
> haven't heard from him since and don't believe he expected a mass
> switchover.
>
> John Cliff
Just to be clear, I would be happy to host any or all of the existing
List. Thanks to the generosity of listers, I have been able to build
incredibly high-performance, high-availability systems to host these email
lists and encourage participation and additional subsubscribers. I am also
open to any sort of list creation the members might be interested in, for
example a NA version and a European version. I do think, however, that
having a common list serves both groups better.
In any case, know that I'm here for the Aviation community and will do
whatever I can to assist your communications needs.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is The UK list off the air? |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>>>They'll fix it, ......
Or maybe not as the case may be! Looks like the US list is about to get
a lot of new members.
One wonders about the abilities at Avnet if they can't fix and restore a
list server in a few hours. At least we won't have to worry about that
issue again.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Test message- Happy |
All
Finely , some "Europa" talk.., I have been having withdrawal pains all
week.
Me ? I have my wings and other small parts at the paint shop, the same guy
that painted Bob Jacobsen's "Beep Beep" . He said he is about to spray
white. That is good news. He is doing my plane as a fill-in job and the
shop has been busy. The fuselage is setting in my garage waiting for the
wings to come back so it can go to the paint shop too.
My panel is about done. At least as much as I can get done at this time. I
got Email from Dynon Development telling me that the D10 will ship the first
part of March. Good timing for me. I am a happy builder !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
PS: Everyone remember to "trim" off the junk at the end of these Email, so
we don't get to much trash.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BlueMountain EFIS/Lite |
I now have my EFIS/Lite. John at Europa tells me that several builders have
them. Anyone on the list have one and if so how did you fit it in your panel.
( Stock Monowheel panel. )
Thanks,
SteveD.
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | New email forum and volunteer wanted |
I'm a bit swamped with my new job and trips to the US at the
moment, so even my plane isn't getting much of my time. I've
updated the Web Site's 'Forum' page to reflect the move from the Avnet forum
server to the Matronics one, but I recognise that a load of work is needed
on the Forum FAQs page to remove Avnet-related information and add relevant
Matronics stuff and I'm going to struggle to find that time and get on with
my build over the next few weeks.
Does anyone out there with a few spare hours on their hands fancy
volunteering to have a root through the HTML for that page to do this for
me? Any help gratefully received!
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Test message - please ignore |
02/03/2003 12:22:08 AM
Ignore this too guys!
Ira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Test message - please ignore |
OK ;-)
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore
Ignore this too guys!
Ira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Test message - please ignore |
Hi! All. Just to prove I'm on the list ? I guess you'd better ignore this
too. Sad times we live in for many reasons.
I had difficulty remembering the "regulations" with the Avnet Europa Forum
so I'm expecting some confrontations here, BTW what's this about
"contributions" ? It's not a word I'm familiar with!
Charity begins at home!
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/02/03 |
>
>
> >>>They'll fix it, ......
>
>Or maybe not as the case may be! Looks like the US list is about to get
>a lot of new members.
>
>One wonders about the abilities at Avnet if they can't fix and restore a
>list server in a few hours. At least we won't have to worry about that
>issue again.
>
>Tony
I sense it's more a matter of attitude than ability.
PLease note my new email address guys. Tried to persuade my address book to
email everyone and failed. Old lady Eudora is having an off day!
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Test message - please ignore |
I'm here too and have been all the time!
Bob "contributions" are a little like "hangerage" then again you don't
partake in that either ;-)
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore
Hi! All. Just to prove I'm on the list ? I guess you'd better ignore this
too. Sad times we live in for many reasons.
I had difficulty remembering the "regulations" with the Avnet Europa Forum
so I'm expecting some confrontations here, BTW what's this about
"contributions" ? It's not a word I'm familiar with!
Charity begins at home!
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
Hello the new forum!
Can anyone advise me which wire goes where when connecting up the tacho on a
912S? There are three terminals on the back:-
1+, 2-, and 3. There are two wires coming from the engine, white/yellow &
blue/yellow.
Neither the Rotax manual nor the factory wiring diagramme are very clear as
to what goes where.
Cheers,
Richard Iddon. G-RIXS (XS tri builder no 533)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Footwell length difference? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Hi Listers,
OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than
the port-side footwell?
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
A239 dual-wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Greetings to the new forum host.
I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight
fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is
extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the
cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
go "home".
I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with
the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
about it?
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Footwell length difference? |
Peter:
The starboard footwell is not shorter than the port side footwell. The port
side footwell is longer than the starboard. This was an XS model update
along with the narrowing of the console area to give the pilot more room.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
> To: Europa Email List
> Date: 2/3/03 6:06:26 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Footwell length difference?
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than
> the port-side footwell?
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
> A239 dual-wing
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Footwell length difference? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Aha! That's what I thought I had heard .... seems silly though that
they did not do the same footwell stretch on both - unless there is a
reason such as needing the room for the rotax bits etc.. Oh well, good
thing my wife is shorter than me - but if my son and daughter keep
growing at their current rate, I'll have to give them the left seat! ;-)
Cheers & thanks
Pete
A239
Ottawa, Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hagar [mailto:hagargs(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Footwell length difference?
Peter:
The starboard footwell is not shorter than the port side footwell. The
port
side footwell is longer than the starboard. This was an XS model update
along with the narrowing of the console area to give the pilot more
room.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
> To: Europa Email List
> Date: 2/3/03 6:06:26 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Footwell length difference?
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter
than
> the port-side footwell?
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
> A239 dual-wing
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
John,
I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little
tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By
lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the pins.
Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the
fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more
adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know how
many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time
making this subject irrelevant.
craig ellison
a205
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
I leave my wings rigged all the time. The pins are hard to remove but I am
waiting a while before probably smoothing the pins with Brillo. I think
with use they will loosen some. I am at 88 hours now.
Ken Carpenter
N9XS A123
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> John,
>
> I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little
> tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By
> lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the
pins.
> Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the
> fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more
> adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know
how
> many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time
> making this subject irrelevant.
>
> craig ellison
> a205
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
>
> >
> > Greetings to the new forum host.
> >
> > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep
for
> > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to
the
> > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
> tight
> > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the
combo
> is
> > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars
and
> the
> > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
> won't
> > go "home".
> >
> > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied
1/2
> > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
> with
> > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
> I'm
> > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the
cockpit
> > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
> >
> > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you
do
> > about it?
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Dunlap, TN
> > A-245
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Craig and John
I have had the same tight fit on two kits. ( Bob Jacobsen's and mine) I
found part of the trouble was a very thin layer of epoxy inside the busses
in the wings. The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is just
paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it out.
It is not easy to see. After that I still having a "devil" of a time
getting the wings on and off. I used a 1/2" reamer to true up the three
busses at one time. Don't do this till after the wings are set to the
Fuselage and the lift pins are installed. You will have to use a vicegrip
on your 1/2" bolts for a while. (save the regular pins till after it all
fits good)
Hope this helps.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
PS: Glad to see Europa talk again !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
I applied some grease to the pins, and found that having a helper wiggle the
wing helps. My pins are tight, but comfortably so, considering that they will
come in and out over many years.
Cleve Lee
A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300
Detroit, MI
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Cliff,
I'm glad to hear others have had to use vicegrips to remove the pins. I'll
check into the spar busses/epoxy on mine and maybe try the 1/2" reamer next
time I have the wings on the fuselage.
thanks,
craig ellison
a205
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> Craig and John
>
> I have had the same tight fit on two kits. ( Bob Jacobsen's and mine) I
> found part of the trouble was a very thin layer of epoxy inside the busses
> in the wings. The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is just
> paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it out.
> It is not easy to see. After that I still having a "devil" of a time
> getting the wings on and off. I used a 1/2" reamer to true up the three
> busses at one time. Don't do this till after the wings are set to the
> Fuselage and the lift pins are installed. You will have to use a vicegrip
> on your 1/2" bolts for a while. (save the regular pins till after it all
> fits good)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds WA 98020
> (425) 776-5555
> N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
> PS: Glad to see Europa talk again !
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Tight Wing Spar Pins. |
Hi! Guys,
It's good to see info' flowing again abeit due to your problems .
My wing pins are still quite tight , 300 hours and rigged almost every
flight except Continental. They became a little easier after fitting the
upgrade to 1/2" pins with two pip pins. I think the removal of the old 3/8"
pins gave a little "slop" in the seat back bushes before final alignment and
reduxing into place with the a/c fully assembled. However I still have to
insert the pins in a particular sequence . ( rear lift pin starboard side,
rear lift pin port side, starboard side spar pin , then finally port side
spar pin.) Any other combination and it won't rig! Also I use a rubber
mallet and plenty of grease and if someone is helping I get them to hold
each wing tip backward to engage the rear lift pins and forwards to insert
the spar pins. Pulling out with the pip pin handles is no problem by hand.
There's two areas of likely problem IMHO! :-
a) the spar ends are very slightly malformed and can just be fouling on the
sockets when "right home". I very slightly radiused the ends of mine.
b) the wing root fairings on the sides of the fuselage need very carefull
inspection to be clear .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | New e-mail address |
Having just changed to this new forum I have also changed my e-mail address. Although
my Compuserve address will be operational for a few more months anyone
wishing to contact me in future should use nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk.
Nigel Charles
Europa Club Mods Representative
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
I have had a lot of interest about the Europa Club Outrigger mod and have obtained
some lengths of the stainless tube for other monowheel owners as it has proved
difficult to obtain. This initial stock has now been exhausted. Although
this tube is available by mail order in the USA ordering just 4" of tube for international
mailing is not very practical. As I shall be returning to the USA
in March and will have a mail pickup opportunity in JFK I am prepared to get
some more tube for those who missed out on the last order. Also as the mod requires
some 4130 steel tube, washers, nuts and grease nipples I am also prepared
to obtain these to enable me to supply monowheel owners with a kit of parts
for the mod. Anyone interested in taking advantage of this should send me an e-mail,
stating whether they require just the stainless tube or the whole kit.
This should be done by the end of February when I shall place the order. The cost
will be about =A33 for the tube or =A36 for the kit. I will be able to accept
orders from elsewhere in Europe in either =A3's or Euro's (cash or cheque)
provided the mailing costs are paid. If USA owners wish to order from me I can
mail the parts on each visit to the USA (about once or twice per month). In
this case if the above currencies are not practical cash payment in $'s would
be acceptable. For =A33 assume $5 or Euro's and for =A36 assume $10 or Euro's.
Exact cost will be confirmed on placement of order. I will get a few extra sets
of parts to allow for late orders but ordering by the end of February will
avoid disappointment.
This is a club mod and is only available to club members. However the membership
subscription is hardly expensive and there are other mods available as well
as other membership benefits including a quarterly magazine. The club also represents
Europa builders/owners with frequent discussions with the factory and
the PFA. Supporting this with your membership is in everyone's interest.
As many will just be in the process of changing to this forum I will be posting
this message again later this month to ensure all those interested get an opportunity
to place an order.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Europa Club Mods Representative
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Hi!
Just my penny worth to Davids message re- "applying heat"
If you use a piece of copper rod to fit the bushes and heat it at one end it
will get heat right down the bushes instantly to enable them to be removed
without spreading heat elsewhere.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
I had the same problem and asked Neville at Europa for a fix.
He suggested to grind a little off the shoulder at the end of
the pin. This helped a lot. I also put a slight chamfer on the
spar bushes. It is still a tight fit and I have to use a hammer
with a piece of wood to tap it in.
I have made removal a lot easier by pushing a piece of rubber
oil hose onto the existing handle, thus I can use all fingers
for a strong pull.
Hope that helps, Karl Heindl
>From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:13:42 EST
>
>
>Greetings to the new forum host.
>
>I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
>bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
>cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
>tight
>fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
>is
>extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
>the
>cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
>go "home".
>
>I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
>bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
>with
>the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
>experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
>module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
>module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
>My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
>loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
>about it?
>
>John Lawton
>Dunlap, TN
>A-245
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Thanks to all for the responses.
I'm wondering if it's possible to heat the bush, mount the wings and tap the
bolt through while the bush is hot and the Redux plyable thereby "reseating"
it. Since I'm very close to fitting, and since I've already installed the
plywood pads on the seat back around the bushes making removal very
difficult, this might work. Will the Redux adversely react to this sort of
treatment?
BTW, who is the engineering contact at the factory for such questions?
Thanks in advance
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (Matthew's Field, future site of a Europa Fly-In as soon as mine
flys)
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Although it is possible to do as you suggest the epoxy is not a
thermoplastic material but a thermosetting one, which in even more technical
terms is a cross linked polymer - heating to soften the cured epoxy will
break some of these cross links and significantly degrade the epoxy's
properties. In short, don't do it.
I too have had the problem with getting the spar pins fitting properly and
have removed the bushings by drilling. I have yet to replace the bushings
(even in SoCal the "winter" temperature is too low for fast curing) but have
trial-fitted the wings and inserted the spar pins through (obviously
oversize) holes in the seat back and through the spars, so I am confident
that bonding the seat back bushings in place with the wings fitted will
(finally) get things lined up correctly.
As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
invisible epoxy deposited on the ID, and the factory's dummy spar (of which
I have two - not identical) is not adequate for the job. There is
considerable excess epoxy on the spars, so much so that I could not get the
spar ends into the spar caps without a lot of sanding to remove the excess.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
Thanks to all for the responses.
I'm wondering if it's possible to heat the bush, mount the wings and tap the
bolt through while the bush is hot and the Redux plyable thereby "reseating"
it. Since I'm very close to fitting, and since I've already installed the
plywood pads on the seat back around the bushes making removal very
difficult, this might work. Will the Redux adversely react to this sort of
treatment?
BTW, who is the engineering contact at the factory for such questions?
Thanks in advance
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (Matthew's Field, future site of a Europa Fly-In as soon as mine
flys)
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | cabin heating and ventilation |
G-IMAB seems to run at too low a temperature in this winter weather, and inside,
we get very cold but the windows steam up. Being a cold-blooded individual,
I have not installed the naca ventilators as I don't want my knees or my kidneys
frozen.
So...I want to blank off some of the , already over-generous, radiator duct
at the back, and take a couple of pipes from behind the rearmost radiator the
short distance direct into the adjacent footwells. The ram effect of the throttled
rear of the radiator duct should force ample supplies of warm air into the
cab and the engine and the pilots should be comfortably warm.
My flying companion is uncomfortably cool about this proposition - he thinks
it would be a waste of time. What are the expert opinions of the Forum?
=01
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Sorry, but a question from one who hasn't read that part of the manual yet:
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but how does the factory suggest to locate
and align the spar-pin bushing in the seatback if one is to _not_ use the actual
wings? I just can't see that dummy spar being acurate enough with the spar-bushings
being so tight. I would have assumed using the wings would be the
best way to do it. Are there any issues with using the wings for this process?
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
A239 dual wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Housman [mailto:RobH@hyperion-ef.com]
Sent: Tue 2/4/2003 12:15 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
.........snip....
, so I am confident
that bonding the seat back bushings in place with the wings fitted will
(finally) get things lined up correctly.
.....snip......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | New purchase of monowheel kit |
Hello Europa-List
Have an order in for a monowheel A-265 from Lakeland FL with my partner
Wayne.
We are purchasing with accelerated tailfeather and cockpit. Will wait
for purchase of firewall fwd. Leaning towards the 914.
Primary use off paved and grass strips.
Any help or suggestions on decisions that we should be making now would
be greatly appriciated.
Options we are probably going to make:
Considering a 7:00 tire, is there an opinion as to make an 8:00 fit on
the build??
Purchase water Drains
Purchase Float type fuel guages
Install a Aileron trim servo
Purchase a standard thickness non bubble window solar gray with 2 hinged
vents
purchase speed kit
Thanks for any and all help/suggestions
Sincerly
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage Drive
Kings Park, NY 11754 USA
PS my partner Wayne is really into X-Plane. He has a 914 powered
Monowheel he put together. He is just about complete with it.
Anybody out there with over a hundred hours in a Europa and familiar
with X-Plane to critique it???
He can easily convert to "UNCONVENTIONAL Gear" and or "ABNORMALLY
Aspirated".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
We had a similar problem, due to the dummy spar not being exactly the same as the
wing spars. We eventually tried a reamer, bad idea, too much slop when we went
back to check how much material was actually removed. We finally replaced all the
bushings. You would only need to reset one in the cockpit module (assuming you
haven't reamed yet). Remove the plywood reinforcing, insert one of the 1/2"
bolts into one of the bushes, then heat the bolt with an industrial strength heat
gun. Bond it back in with Redux, using both wings as a jig. That what we did.
regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
R.H. wrote
>As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
>invisible epoxy deposited on the ID
>
....and the bolts I got to use to fit the bushes have a smaller diameter
than the pins used for flight-
My bushes ended up close to two mm off, so I redid it, not a big thing
to do at any stage of build, it is now better and polishing the pins and
giving them a better lead-in chamfer helps a lot too along with a drop
of oil. I can now get them in with my bigish deadblow and out by hand
without getting hurt and without helpers...
It seems to me the cockpit module and the spar have different
coefficients of expansion or perhaps it is thermal lag, sometimes it is
a lot harder to rig than others.
Rob, you might enlighten us on the bushes, are they black anodised
aluminium and if so, when removing material from it does it not weaken
considerably?
Alex, kit 529
P.S. How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Hi Craig and John.
I too had problems fitting the 1/2" bolts when mounting both wings. Starbord
bolt whent in OK, while port bolt was quite hard to insert - had to be
twisted (with wise-grip on bolt head) and pushed simultaneously. After a few
removals and re-insertions of wings it became slightly easier to insert the
bolt, but still a too tight fit. I'm planning to use grinding paste on the
bolt to further ease up things. (Must be thoroughly removed/washed away
before re-greasing)
Cheers,
Hans
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> John,
>
> I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little
> tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By
> lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the
pins.
> Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the
> fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more
> adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know
how
> many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time
> making this subject irrelevant.
>
> craig ellison
> a205
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
>
> >
> > Greetings to the new forum host.
> >
> > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep
for
> > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to
the
> > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
> tight
> > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the
combo
> is
> > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars
and
> the
> > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
> won't
> > go "home".
> >
> > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied
1/2
> > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
> with
> > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
> I'm
> > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the
cockpit
> > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
> >
> > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you
do
> > about it?
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Dunlap, TN
> > A-245
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Pete,
"Are there any issues with using the wings for this process?"
None, as far as my experience (once only!) goes, except for space. My
workshop is not long enough, but I was able to "borrow" the living room and
adjacent hall two days for rigging the wings into the cockpit module (which
stands on its firewall-end on the floor during this operation, i.e. the wing
cords are vertical). The manual is VERY good on how to do everything,
step-by-step, and I was fortunate (considering recent postings on this
issue) that the bushings fit perfectly. Re-checked fitting the wings after
installing the flight controls and fuel tank in the cockpit module - can
insert and pull out the bolts with hands only, no tools required.
One very good advice was offered a couple of months ago on the Forum: When
you have the spars in the cockpit module, mark on the inside of the seat
back with a thick black felt pen along the upper and lower edge of the
overlapping spars, and measure the distance from inside the seat back to the
rear side of the starboard spar at several points and write these
measurements on the inside of the seat back. This will be a great help in
ensuring that none of the pieces you later fit inside the cockpit module
will interfere with the spars.
Regards
Svein K. Johnsen
A225 (now in Norway)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Hi! Hans.
IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not wash
out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
permanently. It sounds like you are nearly there.
Examine the spar ends with some "engineers blue" wiped into the sockets and
you'll get a witness mark left on the spar ends after rigging . Then you can
lightly relieve the offending part where it catches.
Then have a look closely at the wing close out fairings as to how tight they
are against the fuselage.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
The spar bushings are black anodized aluminum :) but I removed them entirely
rather than ream to fit, which I had tried first, but it was necessary to
remove entirely too much material to make things go together. Removal of
any amount of material will likewise remove the surface treatment (anodize)
the real consequence of which will be to remove the harder aluminum oxide,
an abrasion resistant material. If so much aluminum is removed to affect
the strength of the bushing the fit would have been really bad!
The early North American kits were numbered in sequence with the UK (and
elsewhere) kits, but later kits that were shipped to the colonies are
identified with the "A" preceding a unique serial number sequence. For
example, Kim Prout's N111EU was S/N 111.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alexander P. de
C. Kaarsberg
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
R.H. wrote
>As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
>invisible epoxy deposited on the ID
>
Rob, you might enlighten us on the bushes, are they black anodised
aluminium and if so, when removing material from it does it not weaken
considerably?
Alex, kit 529
P.S. How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
As far as lapping goes:
"IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not
wash
out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
permanently."
This is true with Diamond or real hard abrasive compounds.
www.mcmaster.com sells some lapping stuff that starts out as a lap, then
turns to polish then to nothing. I have used this sucessful lapping
aluminium on Cox 020 reedvalve racing motors. also works on steel. It
does not remove much before it ends its ability to cut.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Footwell length difference? |
Probably because the oil tank when mounted on the s'bd footwell wouldn't
have enough space otherwise (it would foul on the cowling if set any
further forward?).
Duncan McF
On Tuesday, February 04, 2003 1:06 AM, Peter Zutrauen
[SMTP:peterz(at)zutrasoft.com] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than
> the port-side footwell?
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
> A239 dual-wing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
The 'black paint' is hard-anodising and will impart considerable
wear-resistance to the bushes. If scraped out, the bush life will be
reduced.
Duncan Mcf.
On Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:06 AM, Cliff Shaw
[SMTP:flyinggpa(at)attbi.com] wrote:
<...................The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is
just
> paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it
out.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Thanks for all the great responses concerning the spar pin/bushes not
fitting easily. I did use the wings for alignment and still ended up tight.
Ron do you have a name of the lapping compound you mentioned. I went to the
web page you gave and couldn't find it.
Thanks,
craig ellison
a205
silverton,or
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Parigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> As far as lapping goes:
>
>
> "IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not
> wash
> out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
> permanently."
>
> This is true with Diamond or real hard abrasive compounds.
>
> www.mcmaster.com sells some lapping stuff that starts out as a lap, then
> turns to polish then to nothing. I have used this sucessful lapping
> aluminium on Cox 020 reedvalve racing motors. also works on steel. It
> does not remove much before it ends its ability to cut.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Hey craig ellison
"Ron do you have a name of the lapping compound you mentioned."
Fron Cat. 108:
#4781A4 is for a 1 pound can for soft metals. it is $20.83
It is on page #2474
They also have some for Hard metals PN #4781A6
The page reads:
These compounds work like magic, they change from an abrasive to a
polish during use and then finally become inert. They're guarenteed not
to embed in any metal surface. Perfect for fitting and smoothing the
bearing or contact surface or rotating, ossolating and sliding parts.
Furnish as a powder to mix with oil. A thin machine oil (SAE 10 or 20)
or heavier gear oil can be used. compound does not contain harsh
abrasives.
Soft-Metal grade is for fitting bearings, brass valves, bronze fittings
and gears, and soft metal guides. Use on Babbit, Brass, Bronz and
Aluminium.
=======================================================================
Anyway i will be glad to send you some to give a try. I also have some
Lard cutting oil that is perfect for mixing.
Send me a self adressed postage paid box, with a 4 oz container that
won't leak for the oil, I will put the compound in a zip lock bag.
figure add additional 8 oz for contents.
send to:
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage Drive
Kings Park NY 11754
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Parigoris <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Share a Florida to NY trip with truck? |
Planning on renting a truck in Florida to pick up kit and deliver to NY
in near future.
Anyone else needing to do the same?
Ron Parigoris
Hm 631-979-7675
Wk 631-752-0184 (voice mail, I retrieve ofthe)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
I would love to get my hands on that 914 X plane model. I have the program
and haven't had time to pursue it. Is your model directionally unstable as
the real thing in yaw?
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
Serialize by Notes Client on Ira Rampil/UHMC(Release 5.0.10 |March 22,
2002) at
02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
S/MIME Sign failed at 02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM: The cryptographic key was
not
found,
Serialize by Router on nmta.cc.sunysb.edu/DoIT(Release 5.0.11 |July 24,
2002) at
02/04/2003 06:08:13 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/04/2003 06:08:13 PM
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the list (again ;-) )
Perhaps when Wayne is done with the X model, he
could ask John Cliff to post it on the Europa Support web site
where many other pictures and binaries can be found
I'll be in Lakeland/Brandon/Seffner 2/15-23 to install my panel.
May be we can meet there?
Ira N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wings to cockpit module SOLVED! |
Thanks again to all forum folks for the input.
Today, with a little help from my girlfriend Susan, I was able to get both
pins in and the spar cups bonded. She wiggled the wing up and down, fore and
aft, while I lightly tapped the pins into place with a dead blow "calibration
mallet". It's tight, but no tighter than some sailplanes I've helped
assemble. I'm satisfied with the fit.
Anybody got any recommendations on electric fuel guages?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
Hello,
> I was wondering if there is any opinion about the Andair Fuel Selector
> Extensions? Are they good and do they place the selector in a practical
> location not obstructed by other a/c structures? I would imagine it could
> come up under a hinged access panel that you rest your forearm on. Suffice
> to say I don't have easy access to my fuselage and cockpit module, so there
> might immediately be voices saying "no no" or, I hope the opposite.
> In anticipation, please.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kesterton, Donald" <Donald.Kesterton(at)logicacmg.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
John
You could also try heating up a piece of 1/2 inch solid metal rod in your
vice away from the plane, then insert into the bush and allow heat
conduction to do the job for you. It directs the heat exactly where you
want it to go and the technique has worked for me in some other situations
e.g. like removing the old monowheel tail wheel.
Donald Kesterton
G-Pats No 216 Still Building
-----Original Message-----
From: david joyce [mailto:davidjoyce(at)beeb.net]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
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sender. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the Europa gang. You have some good questions. Here are some
comments based on my limited experience of ~1 year and 120+ hours of fun
with my mono XS.
>Considering a 7:00 tire, is there an opinion as to make an 8:00 fit on
>the build??
>
I fitted a 7.00 x 6 McCreary Air Trac. Works fine on grass and tarmac,
no apparent wear after 200 + landings, most on tarmac. Not sure why you
would need the 8.00 size, it may give clearance problems. Also more weight.
>Purchase water Drains ?
>
Probably a good idea. I have them but have never seen water. Be aware
that small debris can get on the face of the O ring drain seals. This
can cause a very minor fuel weep which may stain your paint.
>Purchase Float type fuel guages ?
>
I use an EIS display with the flowmeter option which gives a very
accurate indication of fuel remaining and endurance. I also have two
capacitance tank gauges but non linear tank shape does not help accurate
indication. The Mod 60 level kit from the factory at $278.46 is probably
a good buy. Not sure that float gauges are a good idea.
>Install a Aileron trim servo ?
>
I should have put one in, I may get round to it.
>Purchase a standard thickness non bubble window solar gray with 2 hinged
>vents ?
>
I am 6 feet tall and the standard canopy is fine for me. If you want to
fly at night, you will probably be better off with clear. I have clear
and have fitted stick-on semi-opaque sun shields overhead (Jim Brown's
idea) which work very well. They are ~12 in. x 15 in., available from
WalMart auto accessories at <$5.00. Trade mark is "Avius Sun-Spot". Re
vents, I have seen some small aluminum articulated disc vents at
Flightcrafters but can't find reference. They looked very effective and
neat.
>purchase speed kit ?
>
Yes. Hey you want to go fast, right ?
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S, WhirlWind c/s prop
Mooresville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
Tony:
I used this setup on the XS that I am building. I initially flush mounted
the valve selector on top of the console just forward of the seat back.
However on further building revealed that the flap drive tube has to occupy
that space. My elegant fix was to manufacture a console glove box to sit
on top of the center console. The selector resides in the rearmost
position of it. You have a rest to put your right arm on and you don't
have the selector poking you in the elbow. With the glove box on top of
the console I have made a larger hole on the console top to allow me to get
my hand inside to do work on hoses cables etc. Its also good for inspection
items.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
> To:
> Date: 2/4/03 5:30:15 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Andair Fuel Selector Extensions
>
>
> Hello,
> > I was wondering if there is any opinion about the Andair Fuel Selector
> > Extensions? Are they good and do they place the selector in a practical
> > location not obstructed by other a/c structures? I would imagine it
could
> > come up under a hinged access panel that you rest your forearm on.
Suffice
> > to say I don't have easy access to my fuselage and cockpit module, so
there
> > might immediately be voices saying "no no" or, I hope the opposite.
> > In anticipation, please.
> > Reg
> > Tony Renshaw
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
I had a similar problem. Everything lined up perfectly until I fitted the
wing lift/drag sockets. After cure & removing the wings, it became very
difficult to insert the spar pins on next fitting. I eventually used a
1/2in. reamer and everything went together nicely but it did leave me with a
little play in the starboard seat back pin bush. Apart from this, when the
wings are rigged, the whole shooting match is very solid and firm. I asked
the factory whether I should replace the bush and was told that a little
play was quite acceptable, in fact they were considering ovalising the holes
a little to allow the spars to flex a bit so I have left them as they were.
Cheers
Richard Iddon. G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> |
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
Tony,
> I was wondering if there is any opinion about the Andair Fuel Selector
> Extensions?
I have just installed this on my TRI-GEAR, where the aft part of the center
consol is free inside. If yours also is a tri-gear, my recommendation is
the following (obviously does not apply to mono-wheels):
- Fit the selector handle in a recessed cup made of 3 plys of bid (I used
the lower part of a white wine bottle as the mold), installed 100 mm (4")
aft of the knuckle for the mono's hand brakes (measured to the center of the
box) where the width is sufficient for this cup. In this position, it is
easy to operate the handle (a safety knob must be lifted at the same time as
you turn the handle to get it to "Off", easy to do by one hand), it is easy
to see the position of the handle and it is out of the way since it is
recessed.
- Cut the opening for the cup a little larger than the OD of the cup,
because according to the factory's recommendation you should reinforce this
cut-out with 2 plys of bid going from the underside through the opening (all
around its circumference) and onto the top, abt. 1 inch in under/over. Also
put some extra bid plys under the top along the sides and onto the top and
around the cup (after you have glued it in place with Araldite/Redux).
- I installed the valve on the underside of a cross-bar between the two
center tunnel sides, made of 10 mm foam with two plys of bid all around.
This makes the cross-bar very stiff yet light. I bolted the valve on the
underside for easy removal. In any event, make sure the cross-bar will not
interfere with the rudder cables running along the sides of the tunnel.
- When installing the valve, it must be absolutely square to the extension
tube, unless you opt for the more expensive universal joint extension.
Being careful and using Araldite with flox to bed the valve on the
cross-bar, you should be OK, though. I riveted the top of the extension
tube to the selector handle first, and then inserted (but not yet riveted)
the lower end into the valve for this alignment process and let the valve
just sink into the Araldite/flox bed under its own weight. Grease the
valve's mounting pads first! When cured, make certain 3 times that you have
the selector handle and the valve correctly orientated (I set the handle to
"Off" and checked that I could not blow through any of the valve holes).
Then use Rapid Aaraldite to glue the lower tube end to the valve spindle
insert. When cured, put in the rivets.
- When all is done and correct operation of the valve is verified, now is
the time to empty the bottle used as the mold for the cup!
- Note on the rivets: The instructions that came from Andair specified a
too large drill size for the rivets, you'll see that immediately when you
open the package. By the way, I riveted the top of the tube to the handle
without dismantling the handle - much easier that way (again a deviation
from the instructions).
- When ordering, specify hose fittings for 8 mm ID hose. These are not
stock items at Andair's (10 and 6 mm are), but they made 8 mm's for me at no
extra charge. These fittings are unique to the valve, you cannot use
ordinary screwed-in fittings.
The valve looks like a very good quality product.
If you - or anyone else - are interested in some photographs of this
installation, let me know off-list.
Regards,
Svein
A225 - now in Norway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> |
| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
Correction to the message I just posted:
"--, installed 100 mm (4") aft of the knuckle for the mono's hand brakes
(measured to the center of the
box) where the width is sufficient for this cup." should read " ---
(measured to the center of the cup) --"
Svein
A225 - now in Norway
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
>> I asked the factory whether I should replace the bush and was told that a little
>> play was quite acceptable, in fact they were considering ovalising the holes
>> a little to allow the spars to flex a bit so I have left them as they were.
hmmm .... I wonder what direction of flex the factory is referring to? If it's
in the veritcal axis, and with only two pins holding the spars, how is flex effected
by the pins? If it's in the longitudinal axis, then why should the spars
be flexing with the pip-pins holding the sweep constant?
Confused,
Pete
A239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | TEST-- Please Ignore |
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
Jeremy Davey has already mentioned that the Europa Forum FAQ
(Frequently Asked Questions), as available on the Europa Club
website, is now out of date in several important aspects.
I compiled that FAQ (prompted by just one too many "how do I get off
this list?" postings!), and have been maintaining it for over 5 years
now. With the move of the Europa community from the Aviators Network
server to the Matronics server, the parts of the FAQ specific to the
e-mail list are of course incorrect, but I'm pleased to say those
parts are mostly superseded by the excellent list guidelines posted
each month by Matt Dralle.
I'd like to lay down the task of FAQ maintenance, but first I intend
to make one last revision of the FAQ for the Club website,
eliminating all references to the late Aviators Network list server
(as it is likely that the archives there may not be available for
much longer). If (as stated in every posting of the FAQ since its
inception) anyone else wishes to take over as maintainer, they are
most welcome to do so. Please contact Jeremy Davey
without obligation to find out more
about what you could do.
Thanks to all those who have contributed towards the FAQ over the
past few years and helped me to keep it relevant; I hope it has been
a useful resource for the Europa community.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (470 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
>How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
Alex - those identify kits sold by the US office of Europa. There are
some Europas in USA without the prefix, which were sold direct from
Yorkshire before the Florida office was set up. Although there are
also Europa representatives in other countries, as far as I know USA
& Argentina are the only ones with their own kit number sequences.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (470 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
">How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
Alex - those identify kits sold by the US office of Europa. There are
some Europas in USA without the prefix, which were sold direct from
Yorkshire before the Florida office was set up. Although there are
also Europa representatives in other countries, as far as I know USA
& Argentina are the only ones with their own kit number sequences.
regards Rowland"
May I add to that? I tried to correspond my A number to the Uk
and etc numbers, but factory couldn't say.........wanted to know how I was
doing against the 'competition'. I doscovered the serial numbers of the
components - fuze top, canoe, cockpit etc. My A064 seems to correlate to
#319 when I compare serial nos. with Brit folk. I would be happy to compare
for someone around my timeline if so wanted.
Ferg
A064
PS: I'm now so far behind it doesn't matter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Minimum trim speed |
Hello there all you flying Europa owners!
I am now a test pilot and I would like some input, if you could. I have now
flown the Mini U2 (motorgllider) 2 flights and 1.8 hours. It has gone very
well, except for today's near disaster landing. I have not explored the
slower speeds enough and was too conservative on the approach speed. (too
fast). The rest of the story, I will not tell, as it must be obvious. It
ended up OK with a go around.
The troubling thing I have encountered is that I can only trim to about 65
knots minimum and that is at full aft trim. I have not refined this exactly,
but it is close. The airplane acts as if it is at a too far forward CG. My CG
sits at 59.4, which is wwell within the envelope for the short wings. I
susect the long wings may have some adjustments here. I have checked again
all the controls and trim system movements and they all check out fine. My
question to the group is:
With the short wings, what is the minimum airspeed you can trim the airplane
- especially at a forward CG?
Also, in the videos of takeoffs, I see the tailwheel come up well before the
airplane main leaves the ground. I am paranoid about keeping the stick aft
and was wondering what those experienced with this configuration find during
takeoff for the tail coming off the ground. My airplane has been leaping off
the ground abruptly as I am keeping that stick probably too far back too
long.
Flight #3 coming up in a few days, with a more aft CG!
Dave
A227
Mini U2 (undamaged!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Diversion Update |
All,
Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International Airport
have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights parking.
I had a long debate with them and suggested they should not charge me for
this but hey ho they don't have a heart.
If I'm honest the 32 doesn't bother me its just the principle. I know one
or two pilots that are pretty tight and it makes me think under the same
circumstances they might not take the safest option in favour of the
cheapest one.
I just had a thought of going back to them and offering them the cheque but
made out to a charity of their choice to show good will on both sides?
If your not familiar with the problem there is more info on my web site
www.ukmicrolights.com
Regards
Kevin
PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
leads.
Also speaking to an inspector the other day he informed me all VP props must
have a separate log. I didn't know that so will be getting one.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Diversion Update |
test just adding a pound sign on the end of this text as mine didn't appear
to come thorough? $$$$$$ %%%%%%
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Taylor
Subject: Europa-List: Diversion Update
All,
Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International Airport
have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights parking.
I had a long debate with them and suggested they should not charge me for
this but hey ho they don't have a heart.
If I'm honest the 32 doesn't bother me its just the principle. I know one
or two pilots that are pretty tight and it makes me think under the same
circumstances they might not take the safest option in favour of the
cheapest one.
I just had a thought of going back to them and offering them the cheque but
made out to a charity of their choice to show good will on both sides?
If your not familiar with the problem there is more info on my web site
www.ukmicrolights.com
Regards
Kevin
PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
leads.
Also speaking to an inspector the other day he informed me all VP props must
have a separate log. I didn't know that so will be getting one.
---
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Simon Smith" <jodel(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Diversion Update |
-->
>Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside >International
Airport have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights
parking.
Sorry to here about your bill. For everyone's info there is a list on
the AOPA website at http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/Aopa1351.pdf of
all the UK airfields who DO NOT charge for diversions.
>PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
leads.
See www.rswww.com item # 227-974
Simon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Air adjustable seats |
I have noticed some reference in past posts to air adjusable seats. This sounds
like a very interesting idea. Can anyone shed some light on where to get info
on parts and construction/installation methods for further study?
Curtis A216
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <europa(at)nimbus.geog.ox.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Diversion Update |
Kevin Taylor wrote:
>
>
> test just adding a pound sign on the end of this text as mine didn't
> appear to come thorough? $$$$$$ %%%%%%
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
> Taylor To: Europa Forum
> Subject: Europa-List: Diversion Update
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
> landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International
> Airport have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights
> parking.
Hi Kevin,
Good job it wasn't Heathrow!
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
All,
>
> Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
> landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International Airport
> have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights parking.
>
> I had a long debate with them and suggested they should not charge me for
> this but hey ho they don't have a heart.
>
> If I'm honest the 32 doesn't bother me its just the principle. I know one
> or two pilots that are pretty tight and it makes me think under the same
> circumstances they might not take the safest option in favour of the
> cheapest one.
>
> I just had a thought of going back to them and offering them the cheque
but
> made out to a charity of their choice to show good will on both sides?
>
> If your not familiar with the problem there is more info on my web site
> www.ukmicrolights.com
>
> Regards
>
> Kevin
>
> PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
> leads.
>
> Also speaking to an inspector the other day he informed me all VP props
must
> have a separate log. I didn't know that so will be getting one.
> ---
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Remember 32 pounds is about $50 Injury added to insult for an emergency.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Update
>
> All,
> >
> > Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
> > landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International
Airport
> > have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights parking.
> >
> > I had a long debate with them and suggested they should not charge me
for
> > this but hey ho they don't have a heart.
> >
> > If I'm honest the 32 doesn't bother me its just the principle. I know
one
> > or two pilots that are pretty tight and it makes me think under the same
> > circumstances they might not take the safest option in favour of the
> > cheapest one.
> >
> > I just had a thought of going back to them and offering them the cheque
> but
> > made out to a charity of their choice to show good will on both sides?
> >
> > If your not familiar with the problem there is more info on my web site
> > www.ukmicrolights.com
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
> > leads.
> >
> > Also speaking to an inspector the other day he informed me all VP props
> must
> > have a separate log. I didn't know that so will be getting one.
> > ---
> >
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
>
> Remember 32 pounds is about $50 Injury added to insult for an emergency.
I think you mean UKP and USD. It's over CDN$230 - we're still here.
Cheers, Ferg
diesel Eruopa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | new weather station |
Don't know if you guys are into this but we put in new weather station and
linked it up to the web. Its just gone on line this afternoon and we
currently have it set to update every hour.
Its handy for knowing wind speed and direction before setting out.
We bought one of the more expensive ones at 500 but they are available much
cheaper and not to complex to link up on line.
For anyone interested in a look here's the link.
So if anyone want to set out for Eddsfield and you want to know what the
weathers like check this out. (UK)
http://www.eastyorkshire.co.uk/eddsfield/wxdata/eddsfield.htm
Kev T
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: new weather station |
Don't look like your barometer is hooked up. Either that or you are at a
record low!
I sent it to my daughter who lives in Pately Bridge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: new weather station
>
> Don't know if you guys are into this but we put in new weather station and
> linked it up to the web. Its just gone on line this afternoon and we
> currently have it set to update every hour.
>
> Its handy for knowing wind speed and direction before setting out.
>
> We bought one of the more expensive ones at 500 but they are available
much
> cheaper and not to complex to link up on line.
>
> For anyone interested in a look here's the link.
>
> So if anyone want to set out for Eddsfield and you want to know what the
> weathers like check this out. (UK)
>
>
> http://www.eastyorkshire.co.uk/eddsfield/wxdata/eddsfield.htm
>
> Kev T
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leo J. Corbalis" <l.corbalis(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum trim speed |
I flew B-47s, 988 hrs. While the nose wheel of a B-47 is much farther
forward of the cg, we always kept it gently but firmly on the ground and let
the aft main fly. We were taking off at only 6 knots ahead of the bottom of
the power curve, 156 knots, and extremely close to the aft cg limit. You
could get a severe pitch up and wind up with no airspeed, not enough power
and not enough altitude. You don't have to grind off the prop tips, just
gently but firmly. Try it you'll like it, especially with an aft cg.
Have a good flight.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Minimum trim speed
>
> Hello there all you flying Europa owners!
>
> I am now a test pilot and I would like some input, if you could. I have
now
> flown the Mini U2 (motorgllider) 2 flights and 1.8 hours. It has gone very
> well, except for today's near disaster landing. I have not explored the
> slower speeds enough and was too conservative on the approach speed. (too
> fast). The rest of the story, I will not tell, as it must be obvious. It
> ended up OK with a go around.
>
> The troubling thing I have encountered is that I can only trim to about 65
> knots minimum and that is at full aft trim. I have not refined this
exactly,
> but it is close. The airplane acts as if it is at a too far forward CG. My
CG
> sits at 59.4, which is wwell within the envelope for the short wings. I
> susect the long wings may have some adjustments here. I have checked again
> all the controls and trim system movements and they all check out fine. My
> question to the group is:
>
> With the short wings, what is the minimum airspeed you can trim the
airplane
> - especially at a forward CG?
>
> Also, in the videos of takeoffs, I see the tailwheel come up well before
the
> airplane main leaves the ground. I am paranoid about keeping the stick aft
> and was wondering what those experienced with this configuration find
during
> takeoff for the tail coming off the ground. My airplane has been leaping
off
> the ground abruptly as I am keeping that stick probably too far back too
> long.
>
> Flight #3 coming up in a few days, with a more aft CG!
>
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2 (undamaged!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum trim speed |
Hi Dave,
As I recall, we get a power off (idle) speed of about 60 knots when our trim is
about centered, as per the LED trim position indicator that came with the kit.
To
the best of my knowledge, we have never flown with the trim on the 'up' (slower
speed) side of the centered trim position. Takeoff position is 2 notches down
on
the trim indicator. With half of our trim range on the (un-explored) slower side
of 60 knots, I have to think there is plenty of range to trim all the way to
stall, if desired.
I'll try to do a little more testing on this hypothesis this weekend.
regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
(short wing U2)
DJA727(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello there all you flying Europa owners!
>
> I am now a test pilot and I would like some input, if you could. I have now
> flown the Mini U2 (motorgllider) 2 flights and 1.8 hours. It has gone very
> well, except for today's near disaster landing. I have not explored the
> slower speeds enough and was too conservative on the approach speed. (too
> fast). The rest of the story, I will not tell, as it must be obvious. It
> ended up OK with a go around.
>
> The troubling thing I have encountered is that I can only trim to about 65
> knots minimum and that is at full aft trim. I have not refined this exactly,
> but it is close. The airplane acts as if it is at a too far forward CG. My CG
> sits at 59.4, which is wwell within the envelope for the short wings. I
> susect the long wings may have some adjustments here. I have checked again
> all the controls and trim system movements and they all check out fine. My
> question to the group is:
>
> With the short wings, what is the minimum airspeed you can trim the airplane
> - especially at a forward CG?
>
> Also, in the videos of takeoffs, I see the tailwheel come up well before the
> airplane main leaves the ground. I am paranoid about keeping the stick aft
> and was wondering what those experienced with this configuration find during
> takeoff for the tail coming off the ground. My airplane has been leaping off
> the ground abruptly as I am keeping that stick probably too far back too
> long.
>
> Flight #3 coming up in a few days, with a more aft CG!
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2 (undamaged!)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | new weather station |
The hardware we got was a Origon WMR 968.
The station itself is solar powered and uses wireless technology to send the
info to the LCD receiver which can be up to 100m away. The unit is great on
its own but has a serial port to plug in to the PC.
You can see the unit at
http://www.ambientweather.com
You can use loads of different software from various suppliers but we went
for
http://www.weather-display.com
Hope that helps just I have had a few off list requests for more info.
Regards
Kev T
PS I know some of the info isn't right and trying to correct it tonight
meant we lost the link but it does work just needs tweaking.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
Subject: Re: Europa-List: new weather station
Don't look like your barometer is hooked up. Either that or you are at a
record low!
I sent it to my daughter who lives in Pately Bridge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: new weather station
>
> Don't know if you guys are into this but we put in new weather station and
> linked it up to the web. Its just gone on line this afternoon and we
> currently have it set to update every hour.
>
> Its handy for knowing wind speed and direction before setting out.
>
> We bought one of the more expensive ones at 500 but they are available
much
> cheaper and not to complex to link up on line.
>
> For anyone interested in a look here's the link.
>
> So if anyone want to set out for Eddsfield and you want to know what the
> weathers like check this out. (UK)
>
>
> http://www.eastyorkshire.co.uk/eddsfield/wxdata/eddsfield.htm
>
> Kev T
> ---
>
>
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Diversion Update |
Kevin,
you can get it at Maplins.
Dave Watts G-BXDY
> PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
> leads.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum trim speed |
I have not trimmed for minimum speed, but I can tell you that I always fly
the final approach at 65 knots at which I have around 1.5 to 2 marks left on
the standard supplied trim gauge.
On take-off I ALWAYS lift the tail during the roll. I am guessing, but
probably at around 35 knots (I never look at the ASI as I do it all by
feel). In fact my preferred method is to slowly unload the back pressure on
the stick from just a few yards into the take-off roll. This seems to stop
any tendancy to swing (through precession) as the tail comes up, because it
is all a much more gentle affair. I have on many occassions forcefully
pushed the stick to get the tail up and you do have to be ready to stop the
extra swing that incures.
Dave Watts G-BXDY (now with 830 hrs on the clock)
> I am now a test pilot and I would like some input, if you could. I have
now
> flown the Mini U2 (motorgllider) 2 flights and 1.8 hours. It has gone very
> well, except for today's near disaster landing. I have not explored the
> slower speeds enough and was too conservative on the approach speed. (too
> fast). The rest of the story, I will not tell, as it must be obvious. It
> ended up OK with a go around.
> The troubling thing I have encountered is that I can only trim to about 65
> knots minimum and that is at full aft trim. I have not refined this
exactly,
> but it is close. The airplane acts as if it is at a too far forward CG. My
CG
> sits at 59.4, which is wwell within the envelope for the short wings. I
> susect the long wings may have some adjustments here. I have checked again
> all the controls and trim system movements and they all check out fine. My
> question to the group is:
> With the short wings, what is the minimum airspeed you can trim the
airplane
> - especially at a forward CG?
> Also, in the videos of takeoffs, I see the tailwheel come up well before
the
> airplane main leaves the ground. I am paranoid about keeping the stick aft
> and was wondering what those experienced with this configuration find
during
> takeoff for the tail coming off the ground. My airplane has been leaping
off
> the ground abruptly as I am keeping that stick probably too far back too
> long.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
Don't go there!
Duncan McF.
On Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:10 PM, Peter Zutrauen
[SMTP:peterz(at)zutrasoft.com] wrote:
>
> >> I asked the factory whether I should replace the bush and was told
that a little
> >> play was quite acceptable, in fact they were considering ovalising the
holes
> >> a little to allow the spars to flex a bit so I have left them as they
were.
>
> hmmm .... I wonder what direction of flex the factory is referring to?
If it's in the veritcal axis, and with only two pins holding the spars,
how is flex effected by the pins? If it's in the longitudinal axis, then
why should the spars be flexing with the pip-pins holding the sweep
constant?
>
> Confused,
> Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Minimum trim speed |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Dave,
On take off's, keep the stick full back until about 40K, then let
the stick start to come forward. About that time, the aircraft will leap
into the air. The reason for the full back stick is to have full
steering untill you are ready to fly. It seems as tho I get to the point
of raising the tail and with in a couple of seconds the a/c leaps off the
runway. You will get use to it. Other people seeing it will marvel at
the quickness it leaves the ground. If the a/c leaves the ground before
you get the tail up just level the a/c and accelerate to 65K then climb
out smartly and around 50' I get the gear up. The a/c pitches upward
when you raise the gear but around 70 to75K the stall speed is far
behind. I then trim for the climb I want.
On landing I keep 65K on final and decelerate after passing the
threshold. It is a bit fast but as you get better control and confidence
at that point, you can get you threshold speed down to 60K. I'll work on
55K at the threshold after I spend a bit more time up at altitude feeling
out stalls. Hold your power untill over the threshold. After you clear
it cut your power, -- hold the a/c up-- as it wants to settle right away.
You have to much speed to let it settle at that point. This willl allow
you to decelerate to stall speed when you are just a few feet over the
runway. I have to work on this more myself. Be gentle at this point as
the a/c is sensitive as well you know. On touch down keep FULL back
stick to keep the tail on the ground for steering. Try to get the tail
on the ground first (just before the main) If it bounces, keep the stick
back. The wing has stopped flying and you just have to put up with the
bounce. If you chase it you will be 180 deg. out of phase and you must
so a go-around. I've done several times, when I wasn't happy with the
touch down. Just remember the "p" factor when you put the power on
again. I have a tendancy to begin swerving a bit. Its unnerving and you
must get on the rudder to get it straight. Lots of fun -------raises a
bit of swet. I've made quite a few approaches right to the point of
choping the power. This gives you good training on that last 50'. Just
keep up the training, it gets better. I'm at 29 hours and I am begining
to get comfortable. I have my check lists to remind me of what I need to
do, both before t.o. and landing.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
>
> Hello there all you flying Europa owners!
>
> I am now a test pilot and I would like some input, if you could. I
> have now
> flown the Mini U2 (motorgllider) 2 flights and 1.8 hours. It has
> gone very
> well, except for today's near disaster landing. I have not explored
> the
> slower speeds enough and was too conservative on the approach speed.
> (too
> fast). The rest of the story, I will not tell, as it must be
> obvious. It
> ended up OK with a go around.
>
> The troubling thing I have encountered is that I can only trim to
> about 65
> knots minimum and that is at full aft trim. I have not refined this
> exactly,
> but it is close. The airplane acts as if it is at a too far forward
> CG. My CG
> sits at 59.4, which is wwell within the envelope for the short
> wings. I
> susect the long wings may have some adjustments here. I have checked
> again
> all the controls and trim system movements and they all check out
> fine. My
> question to the group is:
>
> With the short wings, what is the minimum airspeed you can trim the
> airplane
> - especially at a forward CG?
>
> Also, in the videos of takeoffs, I see the tailwheel come up well
> before the
> airplane main leaves the ground. I am paranoid about keeping the
> stick aft
> and was wondering what those experienced with this configuration
> find during
> takeoff for the tail coming off the ground. My airplane has been
> leaping off
> the ground abruptly as I am keeping that stick probably too far back
> too
> long.
>
> Flight #3 coming up in a few days, with a more aft CG!
>
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2 (undamaged!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
Nigel,
For those of us that aren't Europa Club Members yet could we know some more
about the outrigger mod or do you have to be a member to find out that info?
craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
>
> I have had a lot of interest about the Europa Club Outrigger mod and have
obtained some lengths of the stainless tube for other monowheel owners as it
has proved difficult to obtain. This initial stock has now been exhausted.
Although this tube is available by mail order in the USA ordering just 4" of
tube for international mailing is not very practical. As I shall be
returning to the USA in March and will have a mail pickup opportunity in JFK
I am prepared to get some more tube for those who missed out on the last
order. Also as the mod requires some 4130 steel tube, washers, nuts and
grease nipples I am also prepared to obtain these to enable me to supply
monowheel owners with a kit of parts for the mod. Anyone interested in
taking advantage of this should send me an e-mail, stating whether they
require just the stainless tube or the whole kit. This should be done by the
end of February when I shall place the order. The cost will be about =A33
for the tube or =A36 for the !
> kit. I will be able to accept orders from elsewhere in Europe in either
=A3's or Euro's (cash or cheque) provided the mailing costs are paid. If USA
owners wish to order from me I can mail the parts on each visit to the USA
(about once or twice per month). In this case if the above currencies are
not practical cash payment in $'s would be acceptable. For =A33 assume $5 or
Euro's and for =A36 assume $10 or Euro's. Exact cost will be confirmed on
placement of order. I will get a few extra sets of parts to allow for late
orders but ordering by the end of February will avoid disappointment.
>
> This is a club mod and is only available to club members. However the
membership subscription is hardly expensive and there are other mods
available as well as other membership benefits including a quarterly
magazine. The club also represents Europa builders/owners with frequent
discussions with the factory and the PFA. Supporting this with your
membership is in everyone's interest.
>
> As many will just be in the process of changing to this forum I will be
posting this message again later this month to ensure all those interested
get an opportunity to place an order.
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel Charles
> Europa Club Mods Representative
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ira Weissman" <iweissman(at)mail.snip.net> |
| Subject: | New Member Looking To Purchase Stage One Kit and Motorglider |
Wings
Hello my name is Ira Weissman and I have just joined the Europa Forum.
I am hoping to build a Europa motorglider.
I am currently looking to purchase at a reasonable price an unstarted or barely
started first stage kit. Also, if anyone who has purchased the motorglider wings
and has changed their mind I would be interested in purchasing them also.
I live in Cherry Hill NJ just outside of Philadelphia, PA in the USA. I can be
reached either by email at iweissman(at)snip.net or by telephone at my home number
which is 856-354-0173.
Thank You
Ira Weissman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DuaneFamly(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Member Looking To Purchase Stage One Kit and Motorglider... |
You might want to try Shaun Simpkins on the glider wings. I bought his kit
when he lost his medical and I think that he mentioned that he had ordered a
set of long wings from the Lakeland office but hadn't picked them up yet.
shauns(at)hevanet.com
Good luck.
Mike Duane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ira Weissman" <iweissman(at)mail.snip.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Member Looking To Purchase Stage One Kit and Motorglider... |
Mike
Thanks
I will try contacting him.
Ira
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Member Looking To Purchase Stage One Kit and
Motorglider...
>
> You might want to try Shaun Simpkins on the glider wings. I bought his kit
> when he lost his medical and I think that he mentioned that he had ordered
a
> set of long wings from the Lakeland office but hadn't picked them up yet.
>
> shauns(at)hevanet.com
>
> Good luck.
>
> Mike Duane
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobNeils(at)aimcomm.com (Rob Neils) |
| Subject: | Araldite 420 US supplier |
Redux 410 became Araldite 420 which now is Epibond 420. Graco Supply Company in
Ft. Worth, Texas 76105-050 (phone 817-535-3200, fax 534-1127) sells Epibond
in quart kits of part a and b for $149 plus $20 packaging and UPS ground shipping
due to it being hazardous material. Place orders with Brian Bernethy via
credit card for same-day shipping.
Rob Neils
A 162 - MG3, aka U2 tri-gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
Outline details for non-members of all Club mod are on the web site at
www.europaclub.org.uk. Club members who have gone through the procedure to
get a userid and password have access to further details, including full
instructions for the mods.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig ellison
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
Nigel,
For those of us that aren't Europa Club Members yet could we know some more
about the outrigger mod or do you have to be a member to find out that info?
craig
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
>
> I have had a lot of interest about the Europa Club Outrigger mod and have
obtained some lengths of the stainless tube for other monowheel owners as it
has proved difficult to obtain. This initial stock has now been exhausted.
Although this tube is available by mail order in the USA ordering just 4" of
tube for international mailing is not very practical. As I shall be
returning to the USA in March and will have a mail pickup opportunity in JFK
I am prepared to get some more tube for those who missed out on the last
order. Also as the mod requires some 4130 steel tube, washers, nuts and
grease nipples I am also prepared to obtain these to enable me to supply
monowheel owners with a kit of parts for the mod. Anyone interested in
taking advantage of this should send me an e-mail, stating whether they
require just the stainless tube or the whole kit. This should be done by the
end of February when I shall place the order. The cost will be about =A33
for the tube or =A36 for the !
> kit. I will be able to accept orders from elsewhere in Europe in either
=A3's or Euro's (cash or cheque) provided the mailing costs are paid. If USA
owners wish to order from me I can mail the parts on each visit to the USA
(about once or twice per month). In this case if the above currencies are
not practical cash payment in $'s would be acceptable. For =A33 assume $5 or
Euro's and for =A36 assume $10 or Euro's. Exact cost will be confirmed on
placement of order. I will get a few extra sets of parts to allow for late
orders but ordering by the end of February will avoid disappointment.
>
> This is a club mod and is only available to club members. However the
membership subscription is hardly expensive and there are other mods
available as well as other membership benefits including a quarterly
magazine. The club also represents Europa builders/owners with frequent
discussions with the factory and the PFA. Supporting this with your
membership is in everyone's interest.
>
> As many will just be in the process of changing to this forum I will be
posting this message again later this month to ensure all those interested
get an opportunity to place an order.
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel Charles
> Europa Club Mods Representative
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/06/03 |
Mini U2 test pilots
Dave
It sounds as though either your trim is not correct or the CG is too far
forward. I would stick with holding the tail down and let it go forward
smoothly exactly as Joim Nelson and Dave Watts say. Judge it by feel. If
stick force is high trim might be too far forward, but CG might affect
that. I would persuade Andy Draper to coach you on that , maybe John Hurst
too, I would guess John has more U2 experience than any of us.
One thing I found, all aircraft are different in some respects, even
airplanes of the same type. Our Classic short wing had too different trim
positions, one for landing and one for take off, I approached at 60 kts,
(55 if dead calm. Gives a steeper approach) if full power was selected we
had to trim forward a lot or the airplane got below the glide stall speed,
if the engine quits in that flight condition you have real trouble. Other
Classics had no trim change with power change.
One other thing, as Jim? remarked as you flare the nose tends to drop due
to the ground effect of the wing altering airflow direction over the tail
(less with tri gear, not as close to the ground) effectively a nose down
pitch trim change. You must keep the stick firmly in your belly once the
tailwheel is on the ground.
Take it very carefully, change one thing at a time and wish I was in your
situation right now! {{:-)
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Several UK airports don't charge you if you land as a diversion or in an
emergency. Shoreham for example, who otherwise charge 14.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Update
>
> All,
> >
> > Just an update following on from my Emergency diversion and engine off
> > landing. As I suspected the kind hearted Humberside International
Airport
> > have sent me a invoice for 32 for landing fee and one nights parking.
> >
> > I had a long debate with them and suggested they should not charge me
for
> > this but hey ho they don't have a heart.
> >
> > If I'm honest the 32 doesn't bother me its just the principle. I know
one
> > or two pilots that are pretty tight and it makes me think under the same
> > circumstances they might not take the safest option in favour of the
> > cheapest one.
> >
> > I just had a thought of going back to them and offering them the cheque
> but
> > made out to a charity of their choice to show good will on both sides?
> >
> > If your not familiar with the problem there is more info on my web site
> > www.ukmicrolights.com
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > PS Anyone know where I can but the plastic curly stuff to protect plug
> > leads.
> >
> > Also speaking to an inspector the other day he informed me all VP props
> must
> > have a separate log. I didn't know that so will be getting one.
> > ---
> >
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Simon Smith" <jodel(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
Hi all,
I'm looking for an unfinished Europa in the UK. Classic or XS. Mono or
Tri.
Cheers
Simon
jodel(at)tiscali.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/7/2003 5:45:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
> Mini U2 test pilots
> Dave
> It sounds as though either your trim is not correct or the CG is too far
> forward. I would stick with holding the tail down and let it go forward
> smoothly exactly as Joim Nelson and Dave Watts say. Judge it by feel. If
> stick force is high trim might be too far forward, but CG might affect
> that. I would persuade Andy Draper to coach you on that , maybe John Hurst
> too, I would guess John has more U2 experience than any of us.
>
> One thing I found, all aircraft are different in some respects, even
> airplanes of the same type. Our Classic short wing had too different trim
> positions, one for landing and one for take off, I approached at 60 kts,
> (55 if dead calm. Gives a steeper approach) if full power was selected we
> had to trim forward a lot or the airplane got below the glide stall speed,
> if the engine quits in that flight condition you have real trouble. Other
> Classics had no trim change with power change.
>
> One other thing, as Jim? remarked as you flare the nose tends to drop due
> to the ground effect of the wing altering airflow direction over the tail
> (less with tri gear, not as close to the ground) effectively a nose down
> pitch trim change. You must keep the stick firmly in your belly once the
> tailwheel is on the ground.
>
> Take it very carefully, change one thing at a time and wish I was in your
> situation right now! {{:-)
> Graham
Thanks Graham,
The word is definitely that the CG is too far forward for the long wing. That
is what is flies like and that is what Europa found with their demonstrator
aircraft. One tidbit of information I gained from talking to Andy was that if
elevator authority is questionable, you can gain some authority by not
trimming to the slow approach speed and holding some back pressure during the
approach instead. The trimming out of the speed causes you to lose some
control authority. I reviewed my video tape from the cockpit and found that
the stick position was quite aft for the speed I was flying when touching
down - main first slightly - too fast. I checked the trim system again and
found all measurements to be in order. It looks as though if you are going to
fly both wings, you need to have a compromise CG to work with the 2 wings.
Right now, I can say that 59.5 appears to be the forward limit for the long
wings, and may actually be 60.0 depending on what is considered an acceptable
flight characteristic.
The CG has been adjusted to 60.5 for the next flight. I suspect it will be
easier to plant the tailwheel on the ground with better pitch authority at
the slower speeds.
Baby steps!
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Hi Dave,
Congrats again your successful flight testing! Oh for me to dream.... :-)
I remember in my glider ride, that John had her trimmed up at around 45-50mph indicated
(I did not look if he had any more up-trim left - but he didn't just
January 26, 2003 - February 07, 2003
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cy