Europa-Archive.digest.vol-fm
July 27, 2006 - August 10, 2006
Blaster is a penetrating oil similar or even identical, I believe , to
WD40 as commonly used everywhere in u.k. It works for me.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
> Blaster is "similar", but not the same. I've tried WD40 with no
> results.
Hi all,
We had great success with high temperature antiseize compound on the wastegate
pivot before starting the engine, and then at the annual.
We did not experience any sticking. We check freeness of movement every time the
cowling is removed.
Some cases I know of occured to builders who failed to regularly inspect their
wastegate. Some of them installed sheet metal baffles that prevented them to access
to the wastegate on a regular basis. In my opinion, provision should be
made to readily check the wastegate.
I'm also told that using avgas could contribute to wastegate sticking due to lead
buildup.
In case of problem, squirting some WD40 or similar might help freeing the wastegate,
but are we sure that the original cause of binding would be eliminated ?
And will the residue resist the really high temperatures without producing some
additional carbon deposit ?
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hello Gilles
One more time:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2) I don't absolute agree with Gilles, if wired as per Europa, if
for any
reason battery is not putting out, 1 pump will run off of generator
(provided it is excited, which would have happened upon start up)
That's the main point concerning the circuit : you have redundancy
PROVIDED
the regulator is working.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If using 1 battery and Rotax generator, if both pumps are wired to main
bus, both would be dead if:
Master switch failed or was turned off
Battery isolator failed
30 amp slow blow fuse in series with main bus feed opened
If wired as per Europa, primary will run as long as generator and
regulator is functioning.
Take a look at Europa 914 schematic so we are on same page:
http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/buildersmanuals/CBM%20-%2025%20-%20ELECTRICAL%20SYSTEM.pdf
On page #11
Unless B+ was shorted at regulator, by closing alternator output switch
power to primary pump will be provided from the battery should the
regulator fail, or OVP take it off line.
In other words you can run both pumps off battery with an added bonus of
being able to run 1 pump exclusive off generator.
Ron P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
For what it is worth, I sprayed the following on a piece of aluminium
heated by my blowtorch and cooked it to see if there was any residue left
behind.
First I tried Kano Labs Kroil and Mouse Milk, nothing left behind.
Tried Kano Labs Sili-Kroil, just Kroil with Silicon, nothing.
Tried Blaster, that is thicker, feels like it has an oil in it and I
thought would leave behind a residue, nothing. I cooked at least 6
spraying of Blaster.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
Read on what Rotax has to say:
SI-914-003 Checking And Lubrication Of The Wastegate 6/1999 167
Under certain conditions, when operating using leaded fuels (AVGAS), lead
deposits may form on the turbo wastegate pivot shaft. These lead deposits
may cause the wastegate to stick and prevent proper turbocharger
operation.
Go here:
http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
Click "By Engine Model"
Select 914UL
Search
Look under service instructions and read SI-914-003
In essence it says to use a penetrant, but if that does not work, to open
up turbo and go after the shaft from the inside. good luck not breaking
any hardware.
All would be well advised to read and print "ALL" Alert Service Bulletins,
Service Bulletins, Service Instructions and Service Letters that apply to
you and your engine.
Then update and make notes in your manuals as you comply.
Of course you have all manuals??
If not go to:
http://www.kodiakbs.com/
Click Tech Info
Click Maintenance Manual
You also want a install manual and
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/aircraft/aircraft.nsf/index?Openpage
Click Documentation
Get a Install Manual and Operators Manual
Monitoring Program
Parts Catalogue
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
In a message dated 27/07/2006 21:37:48 GMT Daylight Time,
mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com writes:
A more active penetrating oil which is available in the UK si 'PLUS GAS'.
Used in many workshops this is the best penetrating oil I have ever come
across. It is brilliant for freeing seized/rusted nuts and bolts.
Squirt the offending item with Plus Gas leave overnight, if it does not
shift then it probably never will.
regards,
Mike.
Agreed. Despite my previous note abut WD40, I have used plus gas on occasion
and it is great.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
In a message dated 27/07/2006 22:03:27 GMT Daylight Time, riddon(at)sent.com
writes:
A product I have used with great success on my boat is Boeshield T9 It
=99s
like WD40 with added wax which is left behind after the carrier has
evaporated. Fantastic for lubricating and rust prevention. It was develope
d by Boeing
for aeroplanes but I haven=99t managed to find any close to home. Sti
ll
looking.
That sounds good Richard. Let us know When you find a source.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | Turbo problems 914 - Help!! |
Tech data and the nearest supplier I can find to the UK is Boeshield
Europe. Web site at http://www.boeshield.nl/engels/boeshieldnlframe.htm
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BEBERRY(at)aol.com
Sent: 27 July 2006 22:13
In a message dated 27/07/2006 22:03:27 GMT Daylight Time,
riddon(at)sent.com writes:
A product I have used with great success on my boat is Boeshield T9
It's like WD40 with added wax which is left behind after the carrier has
evaporated. Fantastic for lubricating and rust prevention. It was
developed by Boeing for aeroplanes but I haven't managed to find any
close to home. Still looking.
That sounds good Richard. Let us know When you find a source.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Honeywell locking toggle (i.e. the type where the toggle has to be pulled
out against a spring before moving).
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:09 AM
>
> Thanks all for the discussion.
>
> As a follow up. What sort of switch have folk used to switch the
> alternator/regulator output?
>
> Paul
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Ron and all,
> If wired as per Europa, primary will run as long as generator and
> regulator is functioning.
>
Failure of the regulator is not an unlikely event. That's why I considered this
case when designing the circuit.
My purpose was to prevent a regulator failure from becoming an engine emergency.
> Take a look at Europa 914 schematic so we are on same page:
> http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/buildersmanuals/CBM%20-
> %2025%20-%20ELECTRICAL%20SYSTEM.pdf
> On page #11
>
> Unless B+ was shorted at regulator, by closing alternator output
> switchpower to primary pump will be provided from the battery
> should the
> regulator fail, or OVP take it off line.
>
How is your OVP wired ? If it is of the crowbar type, doesn't it disconnect the
offending generator/regulator unit from the ship's circuit ?
How is the "OV regulator failure" case managed ?
Of course, it is up to each builder to chose the degree of redundancy he is willing
to build into his systems.
Best regards,
Gilles
htttp://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
It is never easy to react to the loss of one of our group. As with you, I
was saddened to hear of the accident and thought of the loss of a
contributor. So I went to my records and discovered fifteen emails from
Cliff to me - all of which were enterprising and innovative topics just to
me. There are of course hundreds more directed to us all from the net.
Cheers, Cliff and Betty, and thanks.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | How to get updated Rotax Manuals? |
Figure I should clog up Archives with an easy search on how to get up to
date rotax manuals.
Here is a repost I made to Rotax group.
Ron Parigoris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello David
"So how do I get an updated manual?"
Ain't as easy as you think. Get proper mindset and ain't so bad.
First you need to get latest manuals offered by Rotax or update the
manuals you have to reflect the latest. You can download them, info in
Post I made to Europa Group below on how to do so.
These manuals are in no way up to date or complete. You need to massage
into the latest manuals "ALL" Alert Service Bulletins, Service Bulletins,
Service Instructions and Service Letters that pertain to you. You can sign
up on line so new information will be E-Mailed to you from sign up date
on.
Initial I went back to 2000 when I was compiling information for my 914UL,
then to be sure I went back further, missed some important stuff. Gotta go
back to the beginning, there are cases where a newer piece mandates you
follow something prior, or just plain old important stand alone stuff back
there.
I know that this is bad news to some, but instead of complaining, put
effort into educating yourself and having the info you need. Set aside a
night or 2 a week. My Rotax 4 inch binder has the front and rear covers
parallel.
I wish I could order up to date manuals by simply giving my engine serial
number, and what shows up is current to that date, and only need to update
from that date on. I know of no one who does this.
To make sure the covers of your book is parallel too, add:
http://www.greenskyadventures.com/engineservice/TechTips/912Ignition/912IgnDiagrahm.htm
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_troubleshooting.htm
Be sure to not only to check out troubleshooting, but look at PPT for
causes of vibration
Another way to get manuals and info:
http://www.rotec.com/sdocintro.htm
Look for info in California Power Systems paid for Catalog, think I may
have some stuff in there from Leading Edge Airfoils.
Ron Parigoris
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Posted to Europa Newsgroup, just enter engine you have if not a 914UL:
Read on what Rotax has to say:
SI-914-003 Checking And Lubrication Of The Wastegate 6/1999 167
Under certain conditions, when operating using leaded fuels (AVGAS), lead
deposits may form on the turbo wastegate pivot shaft. These lead deposits
may cause the wastegate to stick and prevent proper turbocharger
operation.
Go here:
http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
Click "By Engine Model"
Select 914UL
Search
Look under service instructions and read SI-914-003
In essence it says to use a penetrant, but if that does not work, to open
up turbo and go after the shaft from the inside. good luck not breaking
any hardware.
All would be well advised to read and print "ALL" Alert Service Bulletins,
Service Bulletins, Service Instructions and Service Letters that apply to
you and your engine.
Then update and make notes in your manuals as you comply.
Of course you have all manuals??
If not go to:
http://www.kodiakbs.com/
Click Tech Info
Click Maintenance Manual
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/aircraft/aircraft.nsf/index?Openpage
Click Documentation
Get a Install Manual and Operators Manual
Monitoring Program
Parts Catalog
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Europa Oshkosh Accident |
I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident. First is
the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB website.
Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him well
and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
prevent another accident of this type.
First the NTSB Report:
NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.
On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS, N229WC,
collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final approach
to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman Regional
Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger were
fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual meteorological
conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the Portage
Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27. One
witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained slow as
it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the airplane stall
on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
threshold.
Now information about Cliff's plane.
I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted about a
half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did not
fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I was very
careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst was
flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem. They
stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some stall
strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a nasty
stalling airplane.
final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can also
guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped inverted
and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and inverted.
I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and accelerated
stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than some and
probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result from
abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the unaccelerated
stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they may be
unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps toward
recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete loss of
flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control stall...is most
apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed base-to-final approach
turn...the airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may pitch
down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue to
roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of stall not
occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery may be
impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
Bob Jacobsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the recent tragic
accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this message is not to make
money out of that incident but rather to reduce the chance of a similar accident
occuring in the future.
As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if Cliff's Europa
had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident may have been
avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces that view. I'm not
saying it would definitely have turned out differently, but it may have.
One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the pilot very
aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit without requiring
them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed is "pushed" at the pilot
through their headset.
If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone who wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in obtaining one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing approach |
Hey Bob!
I am shocked and saddened by Cliff and Bettys accident at Oshkosh. This
should not
have happened to a pair who had been so helpful and friendly to others in
the flying
community.
It seems that there is some misunderstanding how a "cross controlled"
situation can
occur.
The classic cross controlled scenario is when the pilot overshoots the
base to final turn being
blown downwind using heavy ailerons and rudder to correct the overshoot up
to the point the plane is headed back to the runway and then the pilot uses
rapid opposite aileron to level the wings. The downgoing aileron on the
upwind side is asked to generate a lot more lift when the airspeed is very
slow, causing the upwind wing to stall precipitating a low altitude spin.
I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn from
base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit the bottom
rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the outside wing. It is
permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as this accelerates the inside
wing (which is what you do in a slip). So one can cause a stall by using
bottom rudder and not be cross controlled. I was taught that as long as you
use top rudder only (or no rudder at all) on the base to final turn, the
inside wing cannot stall first. Once lined up on final, I then start using
the rudder to maintain directional allignment with the runway. If I can't
make the turn just using the ailerons, I have screwed up and will do a go
around! The whole idea is that as long as
the aircraft stays coordinated, the wing will only stall straight ahead,
still not a good thing, but
possibly recoverable where a spin entry is not.
Glenn
>From: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Europa Oshkosh Accident
>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:55:00 -0700
>
>
>I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident. First
>is the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB
>website.
>
>Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
>eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him well
>and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
>prevent another accident of this type.
>
>First the NTSB Report:
>
>NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
>Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
>Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS, N229WC,
>collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final
>approach to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman
>Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger
>were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
>Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual meteorological
>conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the Portage
>Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
>The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
>reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27. One
>witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained slow
>as it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the airplane
>stall on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
>threshold.
>
>Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
>I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted about a
>half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did not
>fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I was very
>careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst was
>flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem. They
>stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some stall
>strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a nasty
>stalling airplane.
>
>final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can also
>guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped inverted
>and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and inverted.
> I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
>
>The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
>sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
>powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and accelerated
>stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than some
>and probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
>
>
>Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
>According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
>accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result from
>abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the unaccelerated
>stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they may be
>unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps
>toward recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete
>loss of flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control
>stall...is most apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed
>base-to-final approach turn...the airplane often stalls with little
>warning. The nose may pitch down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the
>airplane may continue to roll to an inverted position...It is imperative
>that this type of stall not occur during an actual approach to a landing
>since recovery may be impossible prior to ground contact due to the low
>altitude...."
>
>
>Bob Jacobsen
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
Glenn,
I have never heard the terms, "bottom rudder", or "top rudder". At the
risk of asking a stupid question, could you please explain the terms
and how they apply in the present instance.
Fred
On Friday, July 28, 2006, at 09:48 AM, GLENN CROWDER wrote:
>
> I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn
> from base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit
> the bottom rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the
> outside wing. It is permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as
> this accelerates the inside wing (which is what you do in a slip). So
> one can cause a stall by using bottom rudder and not be cross
> controlled. I was taught that as long as you use top rudder only (or
> no rudder at all) on the base to final turn, the inside wing cannot
> stall first.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
Hey Fred!
Bottom rudder would be the lower rudder pedal in a turn. On a left turn
to final,
the left rudder would be the bottom rudder.
Glenn
>From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the
>landing approach
>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:43:51 -0700
>
>
>Glenn,
>
>I have never heard the terms, "bottom rudder", or "top rudder". At the risk
>of asking a stupid question, could you please explain the terms and how
>they apply in the present instance.
>
>Fred
>
>On Friday, July 28, 2006, at 09:48 AM, GLENN CROWDER wrote:
>
>>
>> I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn
>>from base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit the
>>bottom rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the outside wing.
>> It is permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as this accelerates
>>the inside wing (which is what you do in a slip). So one can cause a
>>stall by using bottom rudder and not be cross controlled. I was taught
>>that as long as you use top rudder only (or no rudder at all) on the base
>>to final turn, the inside wing cannot stall first.
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
What is wrong with a normal stall warner - the buzzer can be plumbed onto
the intercom if desired or just placed at head height where the microphone
will pick up the noise.
Mine goes off 5kts before the stall but if the aircraft was in a turn and
the wing tip stalled there wouldnt be enough warning.
Some Europas will drop a wing if they are not straight and level prior to
the stall. This is further complicated if the panel isnt perfectly aligned
with the wings - dont laugh, ours isnt and it all looks perfectly level in
the cockpit. The only clue is that the ball sits slightly to the left when
flying straight and level. If you centre the ball and initiate a stall there
is a severe wing drop especially with the flaps down. wonder how many other
Europas have the same characteristic.
It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a basic
mistake but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration has
been disturbed.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:04 PM
>
> I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the
> recent tragic accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this
> message is not to make money out of that incident but rather to reduce the
> chance of a similar accident occuring in the future.
>
> As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if Cliff's
> Europa had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident may
> have been avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces that
> view. I'm not saying it would definitely have turned out differently, but
> it may have.
>
> One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the
> pilot very aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit
> without requiring them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed is
> "pushed" at the pilot through their headset.
>
> If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone who
> wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight
> safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in obtaining
> one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
Having a stall warning alarm has to be better than nothing at all but it probably
won't give you much protection in the case of an accelerated stall in a Europa.
I have stalled my Europa many times (at height, of course) and, often, one
of the wings will go down very quickly.
My belief is that if the airspeed is maintained within the "safe zone" (given
the aircraft weight and weather conditions) then you are unlikely to stall unless
the controls are operated inappropriately.
Regards,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50406#50406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
What's confusing to me is the witness statement that he was "low and
slow on downwind". Getting slow and low on final is somewhat
understandable, esepcially if he was attempting to do a short field
landing, but getting low on downwind seems a bit strange. Is it
possible that his static port was malfunctioning, giving an incorrect
altitude and airspeed?
--- Bob Jacobsen wrote:
>
>
>
> I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident.
> First is
> the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB
> website.
>
> Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
> eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him
> well
> and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
>
> prevent another accident of this type.
>
> First the NTSB Report:
>
> NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
> Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors.
> Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has
> been
> completed.
>
> On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS,
> N229WC,
> collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final
> approach
> to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman
> Regional
> Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger
> were
> fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
> Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual
> meteorological
> conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the
> Portage
> Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
> The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in.
> Witness
> reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27.
> One
> witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained
> slow as
> it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the
> airplane stall
> on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
> threshold.
>
> Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
> I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted
> about a
> half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did
> not
> fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I
> was very
> careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst
> was
> flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem.
> They
> stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some
> stall
> strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a
> nasty
> stalling airplane.
>
> final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can
> also
> guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped
> inverted
> and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and
> inverted.
> I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
>
> The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
>
> sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
>
> powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and
> accelerated
> stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than
> some and
> probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
>
>
> Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
> According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
>
> accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result
> from
> abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the
> unaccelerated
> stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they
> may be
> unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps
> toward
> recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete
> loss of
> flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control stall...is
> most
> apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed base-to-final
> approach
> turn...the airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may
> pitch
> down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue
> to
> roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of
> stall not
> occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery may be
> impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
>
>
>
> Bob Jacobsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlborger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit & cross controlling |
Fellow Europaphiles,
I guess I have to add my 2 bits to these topics (one topic really).
Skid or slip, both are cross controlled conditions. If the ball
isn't in the center, you are cross controlled. The slip is less
dangerous, but you can stall out of it too, you just stall the "up"
wing instead of the "down" wing.
The turn from base to final is the source of one heck of a lot of
accidents. Usually the result of a delayed turn. The delay might be
due to a misjudgment of the winds, a bit too long on the scan up
final to check for someone out there, unexpected radio call,
whatever. You find yourself overshooting the turn and you want to
get back lined up on final. You steepen the bank but it isn't enough
and you are low and slow enough that you don't want to increase the
bank angle any more. Darn, you are so close to that center line,
maybe just a quick poke of that "down" rudder will chase the nose
around and get you close to lined up. You poke and, Bingo, the
"down" wing stalls, you flip over and you are in a spin at an
altitude where you'll never recover. It's very insidious. It can
happen to anyone regardless of experience level. I saw it happen to
a highly experienced glider tow pilot (many many hours) in a Super
Cub when he tried to hurry the turn to final so he get down to pick
up that next tow ASAP. Luckily, he walked (limped?) away from it
bruised but otherwise unhurt.
My private instructor warned me incessantly about it. Finally
demonstrating it to me at altitude. It impressed me! Man, one
minute you are in a nice turn, then you are doing an upside down spin
entry. I think we lost 1000 - 1500 feet (300 - 500 meters for you
folks on the east side of the pond) before we recovered. The other
interesting thing was no stall warning till it was way too late and
we were going over. That was in 1968 and I'm STILL impressed.
(Thanks to Carol "Speed" Conaway for that lesson!)
All I can say is resist that temptation to use that "down" rudder to
hurry the nose around when you are already uncomfortable with the
bank angle and turn rate. That "down" wing is on the inside of the
turn, moving much slower than the "up" wing on the outside. Even
though your airspeed may look OK, it probably wouldn't take much of a
kick on the rudder to make the low wing stop flying.
I'll get off my soapbox and let the rest of you fire away.
Good building and great (safe, please, I don't want to lose any more
friends) flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24
Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX
914 for installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
Hi! All
Firstly belated but sincere condolences to all the bereaved family and
friends of Cliff and Betty Shaw.
I feel really humble making pronouncements at such an early time and
indeed wonder if with about 600 hours total and only on this type of a/c
I'm qualified to pass an opinion but here goes......
I believe that the cross control thing is really commonly known as a
"side slip"?
Whilst this is a useful phenomenon for rapid loss of height on an
approach I have always been very cautious to not engage in such a
manoeuvre at low air speed and with flaps deployed. Perhaps I never had
to land on a strip with such needs?
However IMHO an important aid to stall warning needs to be associated
with the conditions on both wings hence the use of stall strips on both
wings.
I experienced my first severe wing drop this April whilst doing the
annual flight tests on my a/c but at 5,000ft.
I had for some time been flying on the very edge of the stall with full
buffet being experienced with flaps deployed and power on but with the
a/c quite co-ordinated in control when it suddenly and violently dropped
a port wing like a stone and was clearly entering a spin. I initiated
normal spin recovery ...nose down opposite rudder and cut the throttle,
but I had lost more than a 1000ft in a blink of the eye. It has shown no
previous tendency to this whilst I've flown it.
I applied a lot of thought to the conditions which I'd entered and
realised I had been not only down wind but also slightly across the wind
path so the wings were not likely to have had symmetrical lift
conditions anyway and so were not co-ordinated. I failed to notice the
probability of a slightly different buffet phenomenon with only the one
wing actually entering the dramatic stall but I presume it would have
been less obvious than a fully co-ordinated buffet.
The point I seek to make is that whilst on approach to land all turns
need to be co-ordinated, at an adequate height well above stall speed
and not inclusive of any unusual or violent manoeuvres. IMHO these
approaches can only really be described as "LONG FINALS". Only then can
you afford to allow the airspeed to be anywhere near the stall
conditions.(and no side slips)
In making this statement I don't wish to appear clever but to promote
some more discussion around my particular perception for me to consider
as advice for myself.
This re-enforces the valuable aid of Mark Burtons air speed voice kit in
that it provides a constant read out whilst your eyes are on other
business.
( I don't have that assistance .....yet!)
Personally I never commence the flare at less than 65kts, fully laden or
not, and I seek to maintain no less than 60kts until within a foot of
the runway, only then am I prepared to allow the speed to sink further
(especially in gusty wind or where there's possibility of wind shear.)
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG ....under repair !
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 28 July 2006 19:24
What is wrong with a normal stall warner - the buzzer can be plumbed
onto
the intercom if desired or just placed at head height where the
microphone
will pick up the noise.
Mine goes off 5kts before the stall but if the aircraft was in a turn
and
the wing tip stalled there wouldnt be enough warning.
Some Europas will drop a wing if they are not straight and level prior
to
the stall. This is further complicated if the panel isnt perfectly
aligned
with the wings - dont laugh, ours isnt and it all looks perfectly level
in
the cockpit. The only clue is that the ball sits slightly to the left
when
flying straight and level. If you centre the ball and initiate a stall
there
is a severe wing drop especially with the flaps down. wonder how many
other
Europas have the same characteristic.
It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a
basic
mistake but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration
has
been disturbed.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:04 PM
>
> I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the
> recent tragic accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this
> message is not to make money out of that incident but rather to reduce
the
> chance of a similar accident occuring in the future.
>
> As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if
Cliff's
> Europa had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident
may
> have been avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces
that
> view. I'm not saying it would definitely have turned out differently,
but
> it may have.
>
> One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the
> pilot very aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit
> without requiring them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed
is
> "pushed" at the pilot through their headset.
>
> If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone
who
> wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight
> safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in
obtaining
> one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
> It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a basic mistake
but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration has been
disturbed.
Having flown into the Oshkosh convention many times, it is indeed a unique and
exhilirating experience. However, things can happen which divert your attention.
What people in front of you are doing. What tower may tell you, but you don't
quite understand. But the rule at AirVenture is you just listen, and never
key the mike, so there's no colloquy.
I violated that rule once, while following some WWI-era biplane or replica, I swear
in slow flight. My plane on the verge of stall-warning horn with full flaps
down is a real turtle. But I still had to break it off the right downwind
for 27, going north over the City.
Gotta love the ATC people who work Oshkosh AirVenture, because they spotted my
plight. I was turning west, to go back down to the City of Ripon per the NOTAM
procedure and start all over (but parking may fill up), when Tower said..."Low
wing over the City...suggest you bring your plane back NOW, for mid-field entry
to the downwind. Traffic behind you will be a Cessna 337, but he's still
over the railroad tracks not ready to turn right downwind for 27. Please keep
your speed up...he's a 337...and please make short approach. Land on the green
dot! [midway down the long ryw, temporarily painted in iridescent paint].
Seemingly knife-edge bank, 100% power mashed in to comply, I spotted that 337 traffic,
and picked up the mike and said. "Low wing over the city THANKS YOU!"
Very occasionally at KOSH, we violate an advisory thing in the Oshkosh arrival
NOTAM to compliment an FAA employee who did something he/she was not required
to do.
Upon hitting that green dot (how I don't know; I'm not that good!). Tower says,
"Nice job Grumman!....337 [instructed to land short on the other color dot at
the rwy threshold] follow that Grumman ahead of you to parking." Thence, quickly
on to ATC instructions to other folks streaming in, couple thousand feet
apart.
The point of this is that flying into OSH is a very unique thing and such accidents
are extremely rare. Most tend to arrive a little hot -- the rush of the
arrival drill, so they'll never stall-spin, and it actually helps ATC. We have
to be honest with ourselves, and maybe even 95% of us would be little served
with a hand-written panel placard for OSH which says, "ALWAYS FLY THE AIRPLANE."
We may never learn what happened here, because our NTSB does not investigate amateur-built
accidents with anywhere near the thoroughness of the AAIB in the
UK. It probably will be chalked up in probable cause (AAIB avoids probable cause
determinations -- our NTSB has considered same approach) to failure to maintain
flying speed. I'm as saddened by this accident as anybody here, but it
happened...and it can happen in any aircraft.
Fred F.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50435#50435
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
If you use a GPS (who doesn't?) then it makes sense to compare your airspeed against
the GPS when you are downwind in the circuit and also when you have just
turned onto final to avoid being fooled by a gross error caused by a failure
of the pitot/static/asi system. Obviously, you have to take the (possibly estimated)
windspeed into account and the numbers will rarely match up exactly but
if the results are wildly different, you can be on your guard.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50495#50495
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
I would like to add:
Good definition of exact what happens base to final many times:
http://avstop.com/AC/FlightTraingHandbook/CrossedControlStall.html
Good brush up info:
http://avstop.com/AC/FlightTraingHandbook/CrossedControlStall.html
One point that not all pilots realize is that they can easily be flying an
airplane they are unfamiliar with even if they have a lot of hours in
type????
How?? Flying in thinner air than normal. Add humidity, rarefy, or go up in
altitude, and or fly at a heavier weight.
I have many more hours flying a 4 foot electric model than I do acting as
PIC of full scale. It is a unique electric model where the same wing is
used but have different electric power sources (Quick Sticks). AUW can
range between 19 oz to 46oz. That is a big change. There is not very many
times out where I don't spin it at least a few dozen turns with varying
AUWs.
When I was perfecting my flying and Quick Sticks, there were times with
the same AUWs, same CGs where I could not get into a good fully developed
spin?? Then there were times I would inadvertent enter a spin that was
unrecoverable??? It was kind of like the tail that wags the dog with me
fooling with changing the CG to tweak.
Variable was thickness of air!! Heavier usual will enter a spin easier,
and harder to recover for a given CG and air density.
Worst case is thin air, heavy and aft CG. Thin air on my model has the
greatest effect.
Just because you practiced spins on a 172 at 68 degrees 2 people and half
tanks, gives you way too much confidence with 4 people at gross, and 90
degrees at 2500 feet AGL with high humidity.
Here is reason why. Lets say you put an airspeed indicator on the rudder
of a 172 facing 90 degrees to rudder where we can measure airspeed
sideways in a spin. Lets keep the weight the same and CG the same in 2
scenarios. First lets let a spin fully develop into a 1000 foot deep hole
in Death Valley when it is 50 degrees below zero and a dew point of 100
degrees below zero, airspeed indicator would normalize at lets say 20
knots. Then lets go up to 18,000 feet where it is 110 degrees with a dew
point of 100 degrees. (Our 172 is a XXP with a 450HP PT6 turbo prop, and
airframe is constructed out of unobtanium so AUW is the same as a 180HP
Hawk) and let a spin fully develop, the airspeed indicator would normalize
at, you guessed it, 20 knots???
The difference is in Death Valley you would most likly be spinning less
RPM than a Cub on a normal day at sea level, but at 18K would be spinning
faster than a maple leaf could ever hope for. At 18K the a spin will much
more easily develop without trying, and once entered since the rudder is
most likely no where near effective enough to allow a recovery. Add more
to AUW, much worst, and go aft CG even much more worstererer.
One thing I use in models, and since so successful with models, full scale
as well is a pseudo eyes off, ears off airspeed indicator, stall
prewarner. Simple stupid. Do a very slight pitch up. That's it! When you
know your aeroplane, by doing this you can tell when response is sluggish,
you are getting close to stall. Great aid for final flare, steep turns or
when flying downwind where your ground speed can fool you into thinking
you have plenty of airspeed. After a while it is second nature, kind of
like counter steering on a motorcycle to avoid a threat. It will never
trick you like fast ground speed could when the wind shifted 180 degrees 3
seconds before touchdown and is giving you a tailwind. Works too with
roll, when in steep turns at lower speeds, you can feel ailerons begin to
get mushy, if you did nothing more than lower the nose you can feel much
more better response.
Works great on models when you are not in plane, works great when in
plane.
Remember nobody says you need to keep altitude when making turns, practice
up high, and try doing the worst things you can to enter a spin, and see
by just dropping the nose a little how much harder it is to enter a spin.
If you fly by using throttle to control altitude, and pitch to control
speed, if you overshot center line, go ahead and make a coordinated turn,
just don't pull back as hard as you need to maintain altitude, drop nose a
bit, you will gain a bit of airspeed, you will not pull as many gs but
most important keep your angle of attack lower. Add a bit of power and
sort when wings are near level. If you don't have enough runway to sort
out just go around.
If in a coordinated steep turn, if you must roll out quick, dropping the
nose helps a lot as well to prevent the low wing from stalling.
My main point for all this rambling, is try all this testing not just in
thick air, try it in thin air and heavy. You may realize you are flying
something that is very different from what you are expecting to be flying.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems to
point to a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the design or
due to building errors?
Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with the wing profile is
dodgy and may point to a basic error in construction with one wing having a
different lift characteristic to the other. The descriptions of other incidents
such as a very sudden wing drop and incipient spin are not asociated with any
other GA or home build as far as I know.
Questions.. do people's experiences of wing drops apply generally in the
same manner or do they apply to different wings and perhaps mainly to the foam
wing?
Should there be improved ways of measuring the newly formed wing profile
before finishing?
Have any pilots flown different Europas to see if the problem is replicated?
I have never known a severe - or even comparatively slight wing drop in the
stall, power on or off, in GA aircraft so the apparent Europa problem is
worrying and needs some more in depth investigation.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crank case cracks. |
I have just received a Rotax service bulletin requiring a crank case
inspection for cracks(presumably following the one case reported on this site so
far), and am not sure where to look next.
I have carried out a complete eyeballing of the crank case without
discovering any problem and have no oil or coolant leaks.
There is nothing in the Rotax bulletin to suggest where the possible damage
may occur or where and how to carry out the inspection.
Any comments please?
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Dropping a wing at stall |
I am wondering if one has a Europa with a tendency to drop a wing, if it
could not be severely helped by simply adding a bit of NASA Lead Edge
droop???
Reading on the books written by Don Dykens, he calls it another name, but
essential states that on the Europa super efficient wing he incorporated
the perfect amount of NASA lead edge droop to give good slow speed
performance with minimal top speed drag.
To digress a bit, on my 4 foot span model, that I normal fly between 19
and 46 oz AUW, since there were many nay Sayers that AUW should be kept
below half of my 46 oz, I figured I should find out just how heavy could
go before something happened.
Kept adding weight till I was at 72 oz and it flew pretty good, just fast.
This was bungi launched so flight times were limited. So we built a real
sample with 16 cells and 3/4 of a HP. Absolute stink fast, pure vertical,
but landings were a bear, even though it had 3 degrees of washout, the
thing was so heavy, when you got slow and tried lifting a wing, the
aileron would stall the wing, upside down into the ground right now!
Not taking no for an answer I began to investigate NASA Lead edge droop.
this is a flying wing so anything you do on the trail edge also effects
pitch. I began adding some NASA Lead edge droop as Don depicts that some
older English airplanes used to do, just whittle some wood, get it stuck
and go fly and try!
It worked where the plane turned from a 1 out of 3 landings guaranteed
crash, to a pussy cat. Top speed suffered a little. The plane WAGMAX was a
great success, that is until the spar system failed. Instead of a rebuild,
we created WAGMAX 2. What do you do to a beast like this? Made a plenty
beefy spar, got a thinner wing, less wing area and increased weight to 80
oz AUW!
The difference is we installed in flight articulatable NASA Lead Edge
droop. Take off with 20 degrees, when going fast go to zero, and get this,
we made it so when going super fast, could go to negative droop! Ends up
that the negative droop seems to negate the 3 degrees washout and boy does
it go fast, just do not stall it as spin would occur in an instant and be
absolute unrecoverable.
Ends up I got an E-Mail from the guy who was on the team at NASA
investigating NASA Lead edge droop, and he was absolute encouraged at
where we had taken that technology, to use it on a flying wing for drag,
and anti spin. He said that they ran out of money and only investigated a
small amount of potential usefulness.
Boy am I long winded.
Anyway the point is I think a Europa with bad stall habits could very well
be enhanced without too much performance loss. For one thing the stall
speed would not be increased. I don't think it would be very dangerous to
test a little at a time, just may be that it may eat a little too much
into performance.
I would rather have an airplane that was 5 knots slower in cruise but had
fair benign stalls at a slow speed, rather than have a plane that cruised
5 knots faster, had a 5 knot faster than slow speed stall, and was not
benign.
Anyone have ability to run this idea past Don Dykins, Ivan Shaw or??
Ron Parigoris
My partner Wayne modeled a XS Monowheel for X-Plane. Could fool with that
to get idea how it would effect stall??
BTW in X-Plane you can turn on force lines and see the dynamics happening.
You can not believe at just how much down force begins to occur on the
wing outboard of the flaps if you fly much past max. flap speed. Foolish
me, I always thought going too fast with flaps down may tear off flaps.
Looking at dynamics that occur, twisting of the wing and failing it quick
come to mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
Ooooops
Good brush up info:
http://www.theultralightplace.com/stall_&_spin.htm
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Crank case cracks. |
Hello Patrick
"Comments please?"
Click here:
http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm
Click top tab Service Documentation
Click by Engine Model
I tried 914UL
Search out SB-914-018UL and jot down the service bulletins with full info
then go back and search on all 4 stroke engines and download, gives nice
pictures where to look.
Ron Parigoris
Follow my prior post, get your manual up to date, and sign up for free
E-Mail notification on your engine. All pertinent bulletins were E-Mailed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | Crank case cracks. |
Patrick.
Full bulletin including drawings can be found on the Rotax web site. I
copy info below.
These new Service Bulletins may be downloaded from www.rotax-owner.com
SB-912-029 R3 -
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon
<http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon&DOCID=SB
-912-029&S_TYPE=NW> &DOCID=SB-912-029&S_TYPE=NW
SB-914-018 R3 -
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon
<http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon&DOCID=SB
-914-018&S_TYPE=NW> &DOCID=SB-914-018&S_TYPE=NW
SB-912-029UL R3 -
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon
<http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon&DOCID=SB
-912-029UL&S_TYPE=NW> &DOCID=SB-912-029UL&S_TYPE=NW
SB-914-018UL R3 -
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon
<http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/getdoc.asp?USERID=riddon&DOCID=SB
-914-018UL&S_TYPE=NW> &DOCID=SB-914-018UL&S_TYPE=NW
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BEBERRY(at)aol.com
Sent: 29 July 2006 09:37
I have just received a Rotax service bulletin requiring a crank case
inspection for cracks(presumably following the one case reported on this
site so far), and am not sure where to look next.
I have carried out a complete eyeballing of the crank case without
discovering any problem and have no oil or coolant leaks.
There is nothing in the Rotax bulletin to suggest where the possible
damage may occur or where and how to carry out the inspection.
Any comments please?
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <n9zes(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
====================
All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems to point to
a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the design or due to
building errors?Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with the wing
profile is dodgy and may point to a basic error in construction with one wing
having a different lift characteristic to the other. The descriptions of other
incidents such as a very sudden wing drop and incipient spin arenot asociated
with any other GA or home build as far as I know.
---> I don't know about others, but I've flown several C-152's with some pretty
nasty wing drops at stall. One in particular would almost always drop a wing
down at least 60 degrees and need full rudder to pick it up. Aside from that,
it was the best flying out of the 4 at the FBO I trained at. If not paying
attention and really being on top of the plane, an inadvertent stall would put
you on your back, fast.
In contrast, our C-140 wouldn't drop a wing unless deliberately crossed up. I've
not spun it yet, but I have a hard enough time just getting a stall out of
it, with the fuselage banging like an old beer can the whole time from the buffeting.
Big pussy cat.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crank case cracks. |
Thanks Richard,
Patrck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Turn to final Cross-controlling |
It is tempting to ponder the Shaw accident.
Accident reports simplify down to two results in the reader`s mind:
(1) There but for the Grace of God go I, or
(2) I wouldn`t have done that.
Thanks to Mike Parkin for the warning about drooping ailerons on a
loaded wing - something perhaps we hadn`t considered ourselves....
The described reaction of the Europa wing is much the same as the early
North American cantilever mono-wings such as the NA64Yale and BT9
designs. Get the ball out of centre on final and it`s inverted and 30deg
nosedown in one movie screen - 1-30th second.
I note some misunderstanding about slip and skid. This, for those
less practised or experienced:
Visualise a slippery circular racetrack with fast car centred in the turn.
Too fast and you SKID up and off the track; too slow and you SLIP down off
the track. For each speed there is a bank ideal for centring - same as the
aircraft. The job is to pick the ideal bank for the speed (actually angle of
attack). Turning with only aileron does not answer the threat, depending
on the design of the ailerons. Admittedly, Don Dykins has produced a good
design for aileron drag but it doesn`t make nice to anger Mother nature.
Because the rudder is so effective, it is important to treat it as a
wing-accelerator (unlike a boat). Push left rudder and accelerate the right
wing and slow the left wing. If you are keen to examine the wing at
altitude, consider this. At altitude, the split second the wing drops, add
power, drop nose and give opposite rudder (ie: left wing down, rapid right
rudder). The first two moves speed the `plane up, the latter kick
accelerates the lower wing. If anything will preserve your wellbeing, this
will.
The overriding rule is always co-ordinate the turn ( ball in the
centre) with the bank applicable to the airspeed. The only way to achieve
this is to practise these manoeuvres until they become second nature. When
you can fly the turn with the ball in the centre - without looking at it -
(observer), you are ready to land in less-than-ideal conditions.
YOU must be satisfied, Captain..
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
I fly with the foam wing on my aircraft at high density altitudes (8500
MSL yesterday) and
at gross weights (pilot 220 lbs, passenger 200 lbs, Subaru engine) and have
have never had
a wing drop at any time unless doing intentional stalls. My wing only has a
mild 30 degree
drop to the left and indicates no tendency to roll under. I also have no
stall strips.
Glenn
>From: BEBERRY(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing drop in the stall
>Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:32:13 EDT
>
>All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems to
>point to a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the
>design or
>due to building errors?
>
>Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with the wing profile is
>dodgy and may point to a basic error in construction with one wing having a
>different lift characteristic to the other. The descriptions of other
>incidents
>such as a very sudden wing drop and incipient spin are not asociated with
>any
>other GA or home build as far as I know.
>
>Questions.. do people's experiences of wing drops apply generally in the
>same manner or do they apply to different wings and perhaps mainly to the
>foam
>wing?
>
>Should there be improved ways of measuring the newly formed wing profile
>before finishing?
>
>Have any pilots flown different Europas to see if the problem is
>replicated?
>
>I have never known a severe - or even comparatively slight wing drop in the
>stall, power on or off, in GA aircraft so the apparent Europa problem is
>worrying and needs some more in depth investigation.
>
>Patrick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
The Europa is no more or less unstable than other aircraft but it is a
kitplane so there will be variations between different aircraft.
The problem of the wing dropping in the stall was identified early on by
Europa and the PFA and is easily resolved by the fitting of stall strips. In
the UK stall strips or a stall warner are a mandatory fitment to all Europa
aircraft. I am pretty certain that if you look in your builders/ pilots
manual you will find a passage relating to testing and setting this up.
The stall strips are fitted in such a way that both wings stall at the same
time which eliminates the tendency to drop a wing.
Stall strips are a common fitment to kitplanes and GA aircraft alike. Next
time you walk past a line of aircraft, take a look.
To suggest that this is a Europa specific problem is nonsense.
BTW the most likely cause of a wing drop in the first place is a
misalignment of the flaps which I would imagine is rather difficult to
correct. Far easier to fit the strips or a stall warner.
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:32 AM
>
>
> All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems to
> point to a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the
> design or due to building errors?
>
> Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with the wing profile is
> dodgy and may point to a basic error in construction with one wing having
> a different lift characteristic to the other. The descriptions of other
> incidents such as a very sudden wing drop and incipient spin are not
> asociated with any other GA or home build as far as I know.
>
> Questions.. do people's experiences of wing drops apply generally in the
> same manner or do they apply to different wings and perhaps mainly to the
> foam wing?
>
> Should there be improved ways of measuring the newly formed wing profile
> before finishing?
>
> Have any pilots flown different Europas to see if the problem is
> replicated?
>
> I have never known a severe - or even comparatively slight wing drop in
> the stall, power on or off, in GA aircraft so the apparent Europa problem
> is worrying and needs some more in depth investigation.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>-------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
Anyone know how much extra drag the stall strips add?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Gamble" <mp.gamble(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
Anybody have a good condition mono XS trailer for sale.
Details and price to me off list please.
Mike
XS mono 440
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
In a message dated 29/07/2006 21:19:22 GMT Daylight Time,
mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com writes:
Incidentally, a wing drop at the stall is a common feature in many
aircraft, GA or homebuilt. As Carl pointed out, adjusting the flaps is often
a
solution. I have seen this done on a couple of Cessnas. The correct fitting
of
stall strips to the Europa is the recommended procedure for taming an
'interesting' stall characteristic. Stall strips are common to many aircraft
including twins, twin jets as well.
Mike - thanks for your comments - when I talked about wing drop at the stall
I was referring to the dramatic results experienced by some correspondents
e.g. violent drop and even inversion. I have relatively little Europa
experience and have not attempted deliberate stalling but have done so with other
types and wing drop has been nil or very gentle.
I shall be looking again at stall strips.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Automatic Flaps up - Tri Gear |
Guys
I had imagined that many of you have already fitted such a system to
your Tri-gear Europas but as I've had a couple of apprciative comments,
implying that its not as common as I'd imagined, I thought I'd offer it
to any who wants it.
G-MFHI is fitted with a button that when pressed, retracts the electric
flaps to the zero stop - This is useful for cleaning up the airframe on
the ground roll out or when climbing out. This bits easy - the tricky
bit is preventing contention beteen the automatic system and the
retained manual centre off switch. The system we have fitted retracts
the flaps when the button is pressed but stops instantly if the down
button of the manual flap switch is pressed.
If anyone wants the wiring detail and a technical explanation as to how
it works, just let me know.
Regards
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "josok" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi> |
| Subject: | RE: Wing drop in the stall |
Sorry to drag on with this subject, but questions remain.
My limited experience on the Europa are one test flight with Andy on the GBXS before
i even had a PPL. Power off stall was easy, heavy buffeting and a very gentle
wing drop on further slowdown. The next stalls were on 2 Classics that came
to visit my home airport. Both dropped the left wing without any warning but
the stall warners and violently, and frightened the hell out of me. Last time,
last day day for Andy at the factory, Andy was test flying the demonstrator
and i was writing down the numbers, same benign stall pattern. Now the questions:
:-) Are the Classics more prone to wing drop? Do XS wings have the same
behavior? Could a minor tolerance between the wing setup (angle of attack, sweep)
be a cause of wing drop in stall? Do i understand correctly that stall strips
are spoiling the good wing to the same quality as the bad wing? In what
class are the speed penalties involved?
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <n9zes(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax crankcase cracks |
====================
Thanks to all who replied to my question. Interesting and reassuring.
I really should have started a new thread with this subject. Sorry.
Graham
---> I've been thinking about this issue a bit. If you really sit and think about
it, the Rotax engines, aside from a few minor common issues (rubber parts,
regulator, etc.) are really remarkably robust and reliable. The 912S starting
problem has largely been resolved.
On the flip side, recall back through history all the major problems both Lycoming
and Continental have had with various engines through the years? Lyc. O-320H2AD
anyone? Continental O-200 (or any small Continental) that have a hard
time going 500 hrs. between top overhauls? Lycoming camshaft spalling problems
across the product line? Big bore Continentals with head cracking issues?
How many Europas (or other Rotax powered A/C) have had to make off-field landings
due to engine failure? The consensus I've heard is that if you can get the
Rotax running, it will get you to your destination almost no matter what.
Chris
A159
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
Apart from being extremely saddened by Cliff's death I guess we are all also
very puzzled by the whole accident sequence. We may never know the causes
leading up to the stall unless something entirely new comes to light from
the autopsy or the aircraft wreck.
I always thought that wings were designed to stall first at the root in
order to maintain aileron control a little bit longer. It seems that some
Europa wings stall completely at the same instance.
I am sure that Don Dykens or Andy would be able to elaborate, but they are
not speaking to us.
Now, Cliff had stall strips fitted, but were they actually in place on the
wreck ? Maybe Cliff had removed them again.
Graham S. had a similar accident but survived it fortunately. What were his
symptoms ?
I stalled once in a level climb in zero horizontal visibility. I remember a
slight shaking of the stick and put the nose down a bit. But it was already
too late, as I was now vertical in an incipient spin. I could make out the
farm fields in front of my nose. Luckily, I was at 4000 feet and recovered
very swiftly. I did not have a stall warner, but have now installed the
Europa kit, and am still calibrating it.
I put the buzzer on the 'shelf' between the camel humps and find it clearly
audible through my ANR headset. Also, it is powered by a 9V battery. I am
going to put another probe into the starboard wing, as wings don't always
stall at the same time.
Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
Guys,
I wouldn't worry to much about this.
The #1 fatal accident cause in the Cessna 150/152 is guess what - stall/spin
The #1 fatal accident cause in the Piper Tomahawk is guess what - stall/spin
Both of these airplanes are the tamest stalling things you can imagine. In
the Cessna in particular you have to work hard to even get it into a spin.
The Europa is a great design, and even Cliff's plane stalled ok - even if it
was no Cessna 150.
The stall strips were on it as of last week. Much as I would like to blame
the crash on the plane or setup, it was pilot error pure and simple - and it
was a big error. He never should have been that slow (he did that way too
often and we warned him a lot), and tried to turn in tight from a screwed up
base leg.
Many have asked me off list if AOA's or Stall warners would have helped and
I don't think they would.
I once had a friend land his swift gear up. The tower was yelling at him
over the radio to put his gear down - but he told me later he could't hear
them because the gear warning horn was too loud.
There is no substitute for good pilot skills and paying attention to flying
the plane first.
Bob Jacobsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM> |
I have a hard time believing that the entire wing stalls at the same
time. That would be a serious design flaw. This is what the wash-out is
for, a small twist in the wing that gives a higher angle of attack at
the root compared to the tip.
--- Karl Heindl wrote:
>
>
>
> Apart from being extremely saddened by Cliff's death I guess we are
> all also
> very puzzled by the whole accident sequence. We may never know the
> causes
> leading up to the stall unless something entirely new comes to light
> from
> the autopsy or the aircraft wreck.
> I always thought that wings were designed to stall first at the root
> in
> order to maintain aileron control a little bit longer. It seems that
> some
> Europa wings stall completely at the same instance.
> I am sure that Don Dykens or Andy would be able to elaborate, but
> they are
> not speaking to us.
> Now, Cliff had stall strips fitted, but were they actually in place
> on the
> wreck ? Maybe Cliff had removed them again.
> Graham S. had a similar accident but survived it fortunately. What
> were his
> symptoms ?
> I stalled once in a level climb in zero horizontal visibility. I
> remember a
> slight shaking of the stick and put the nose down a bit. But it was
> already
> too late, as I was now vertical in an incipient spin. I could make
> out the
> farm fields in front of my nose. Luckily, I was at 4000 feet and
> recovered
> very swiftly. I did not have a stall warner, but have now installed
> the
> Europa kit, and am still calibrating it.
> I put the buzzer on the 'shelf' between the camel humps and find it
> clearly
> audible through my ANR headset. Also, it is powered by a 9V battery.
> I am
> going to put another probe into the starboard wing, as wings don't
> always
> stall at the same time.
>
> Karl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
N40SH with a 914 and an Airmaster prop took to the air at Gateway Airport under
the capable and skillful hands of Bob Lindsay. The plane works as advertized.
Bob noted that it was the smoothest Rotax he has flown behind yet. This
is no doubt due to the good job that Phoenix Conposites did balancing the
prop and my experience I had in balancing the Bings on my old BMW Paris-Dakar
with my murcury manometers, It must be the hazardous material in the tubes that
gives you just the right amount of granularity in your adjustments. The plane
is a good deal faster and more efficient than the spam cans I am used to.
We passed the Coolidge airport that usually takes 30 minutes to get to in
only about 20 minutes. I didn't expect it to show up so soon.
The aircraft is very stable, the wings giving a very good rumble when approaching
a clean stall is un-mistakeable. With one person aboard there is left wing
drop in a dirty stall at about 40 kts. Though not much worse than I have experienced
in a certificated plane. With 2 people aboard it becomes more stable
in the dirty stall. The times I have tried it., it appeared to just burble a
bit before letting go.
The plane has been tested for flutter to Vne plus a good margin and everything
was fine and stable. Some basic aerobatic maneuvers were tested. The plane flies
like it is on rails.
All subsequent flights during the week originated from Falcon Field with me doing
my practice take offs and landings at the huge runways at Gateway Bob signed
me off to fly it by myself this Saturday, he added a 10 kt cross wind restriction
until I get some more time under my belt. I did indeed use a good deal
of the width of the 100 + ft wide runways at gateway on some of the early landings.
Excitement:
We succombed to the dreaded clogged fuel filter syndrome. This has happened
so many times. I figured I had it licked as I ran a minimum of 40 to 50 gallons
of fuel through the filters and then changed them out. The clear filter
housing was inspected before the flight also. Evidently running fuel through
them doesn't do any good unless you have the plane strapped to a paint shaker
to stir things up while sucking the gas out. Also it appears what clogs the
filter is the same color as the filter, you only see some black particles
in the filter that look benign. Its what you don't see is what kills you.
The filter decided to stop passing the correct amount of fuel at the most in
opportune time. During a touch and go after we had lifted off and were about
a hundred feet in the air and with most of the runway behind us. We probably
touched down within 10 ft of the end of the runway and headed it into the
mud and water rather than the fence along Greenfield road. The plane handles
much better in the sloppy stuff than it does on the pavement. The fire dept
took some real good pictures and the lines through the dirt are straighter
than any track of a Europa on the pavement. A very good rough field aircraft!
I will have the post about 20 photos that were taken. After talking to the
guy with the FAA badge for a few minutes. It only took a little effort to pull
it out. The reserve tank was selected and the motor started right up and
we taxied back to our spot. The aircraft was hosed off and cowlings removed
to get the stuff out of the heat exchangers and eve
ry thing was inspected. The plane was no worse for the wear. It flew the rest
of the week (Thurs, Fri, Sat) with nary a peep. Cooling was not a major
concern as expected in the Phoenix summer. Oil temps were good. CHT was close
but stayed away from 135c but not by much. I do have an air diverter between
my oil and water heat exchangers. So maybe this is telling me to bend it
toward the oil cooler more to get more air to the water.
Solution:
I need to change the fuel system. At this time I have a filter at the outlet
of each side of the tank (primary and reserve). Each one of these lines feeds
the Andair selector valve and then this goes to the two fuel pumps. There is
no redundancy here, I'm using two pumps for takeoff and landing however I'm sucking
off of one filter. The two filters need to be downstream of the selector
valve, just ahead of each pump. That way if a filter gets clogged the other
pump can take up the load through its own filter. I don't see how I missed
that item. The small filters with the replaceable elements are going away and
some larger disposable cheaper automotive types are going in their place.
Other issues:
At pattern speeds with the flaps down, carbon mon-oxide builds up in the cockpit
to a very noticable extent. We had a monitor but it wasn't needed. I need
to put some seals at the flap actuation tube slots, like I believe Dave and
Terry did. I also have a good breeze comming up through the two holes in the
console that are open where the rudder pullies are. These need to be plugged
up. I am also going to stick a small air dam 1/4" high at the back edge of each
Naca fresh air duct to see if I can get them to grab more air. I have two
through vents in the aft baggage bay D panel to open up some more to get the
air flowing out the back.
The bungies could use a little tightening after sitting for at least 3 years during
the build.
Both the fine pitch stop and the coarse pitch stop on the Airmaster need coarsening
up.
Flight instruments appear to be spot on. (I had to turn me a new static nose
piece from aluminum for the pitot tube after busting the plastic unit a day before
Bob arrived)
The plane has over 9 hours of its 40 hours flown off. The next week or two will
be used to work on the above items and to snoop around to see if I can find
a hanger to share with someone. I would think a Europa with one wing off would
fit just nicely with a high wing aircraft. Its a real pain to be toting the
plane around. I will probably fly two to three times more if I was able to
park it at an airfield.
That's it for now you'll probably see the plane at Copperstate this year. It however
will still be in primer by then.
Steve Hagar
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
All I can say is that after having done an external battery start one
day I forgot to reinstate the onboard battery before disconnecting the
external power so hence the comments below.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
Sent: 27 July 2006 12:00
----- Message d'origine -----
De: nigel charles
Objet: RE: Re : Europa-List: wiring
>
>
> >The Rotax regulator needs a definite voltage to continue providing
> power. Disconnect it, or have it fail, or run your battery down, and
> you're left with very few option to keep your engine running.<
>
> Not true. If you disconnect the battery with the engine running the
> generator continues to supply the electrical system until the revs
> dropto idle. Even then, restoring the revs above idle results in the
> generator picking up the load.
>
Hi Nigel,
We run the regulator that came with our 914 on the bench, and once
disconnected, it won't come to life if the battery is down or off line,
regardless of the RPM. This lead to a series of scenarii where we could
be left with no power.
Of course it is possible that not all Rotax regulators are the same
internally, or you found a particular mode we failed to explore in our
experiments. I would be interested in more experimental details on your
findings. I could publish them in addition to our measurements.
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> |
I believe that the reason for the unexpected, sudden wing drop even on
Europa XS with wing wash-out is that in slip/skid the outer/inner wing is
actually like a swept wing, which stalls at the tip first. This will
eliminate the wash-out effect, where the root part stalls first when flying
coordinated.
Svein
A225 - now in Norway - ground tests to continue soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing drop in the stall |
>Are the Classics more prone to wing drop? Do XS wings have the same
>behavior? Could a minor tolerance between the wing setup (angle of
> >attack, sweep) be a cause of wing drop in stall? Do i understand correctly
>that stall strips are spoiling the good wing to the same quality as the bad
> >wing? In what class are the speed penalties involved?
Jos,
I think that the original foam built wings are likely to vary slightly more
in performance than the factory made wings purely because of the nature of
construction. Profiling the wing is a laborious process and the end result
is very much an 'eyeball dependent' operation. I think it would be fair to
say that the jig made factory wings are likely to produce a more consistent
result.
The original wings were fitted with flaps and ailerons made from foam
blocks, glass cloth and resin. Fitting the flap hinges and setting up the
correct washout was challenging and certainly not a precise science. Having
produced 2 of these labour intensive wings, the chances of each wing
exhibiting the same CL curve is unlikely at best. Combine these variables
with any tolerances in the wing to fuselage incidence and you could have
some work to do to make the aircraft behave. The very nature of the wing
seems to provide a useable amount of lift until the stall, at which point
the loss of lift from the wing seems to be almost total. Now if one wing
stalls before the other it is conceivable that the aircraft might roll on
its back.
The purpose of the stall strips is exactly as you suggest - to make the good
wing stall before it would if the stall strip was not fitted.
I think that the strip works by the nib of the strip disrupting the boundary
layer (at particulat angle of attack) on the wing downstream of the strip.
I have read somewhere that the strips can affect short field landing and
take-off performance - no doubt one of our aerodynamicists would be able to
explain - I can't remember the reason.
However, as I understand it, the stall strips have negligible effect at
higher speeds.
level busts, the subject of stabilised approaches is very topical with
training captains. All pilots should strive to establish a stabilised
approach (on calculated landing speed, on the centreline, on glidepath,
sensible power setting) by 200 - 300 ft finals. If you have not achieved
the ideal situation then consider going around and getting it right next
time. There is no loss off face by throwing away a poor approach - anyone
that thinks there is, is just 'flying towards the scene of his own
accident'. All pilots should know when to throw it away - and particularly
with inexperienced or non-current pilots - it should be sooner rather than
later.
Remember the old fighter pilot saying - height is might and speed is life.
All the best, and safe flying.
regards,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Simon Smith" <jodel(at)nildram.co.uk> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
Firstly congratulations on your first flight.
The pump filter layout has changed over the last few years and the
latest
version is at
http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/xs914%20may%2006.vp.pdf
pages 5-3 and 5-4. What might not be obvious from these diagrams is
that
the system favors using the filter on the inlet to pump 1 even if both
pumps
are in use. The second filter then acts as a back up should the first
become blocked. During my flight test period (strongly recommended by
Nev )
I swapped out/cleaned the filters after every flight. After 5 hrs I now
see
a little bit of crud in filter 1 after each flight and none in #2. I
will
continue until both run clean.
Have fun!
Simon
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Sent: 31 July 2006 16:56
N40SH with a 914 and an Airmaster prop took to the air at Gateway
Airport
under the capable and skillful hands of Bob Lindsay. The plane works as
advertized. Bob noted that it was the smoothest Rotax he has flown
behind
yet. This is no doubt due to the good job that Phoenix Conposites
did
balancing the prop and my experience I had in balancing the Bings on my
old
BMW Paris-Dakar with my murcury manometers, It must be the hazardous
material in the tubes that gives you just the right amount of
granularity
in your adjustments. The plane is a good deal faster and more efficient
than
the spam cans I am used to. We passed the Coolidge airport that
usually
takes 30 minutes to get to in only about 20 minutes. I didn't expect it
to
show up so soon.
The aircraft is very stable, the wings giving a very good rumble when
approaching a clean stall is un-mistakeable. With one person aboard
there
is left wing drop in a dirty stall at about 40 kts. Though not much
worse
than I have experienced in a certificated plane. With 2 people aboard
it
becomes more stable in the dirty stall. The times I have tried it., it
appeared to just burble a bit before letting go.
The plane has been tested for flutter to Vne plus a good margin and
everything was fine and stable. Some basic aerobatic maneuvers were
tested.
The plane flies like it is on rails.
All subsequent flights during the week originated from Falcon Field with
me
doing my practice take offs and landings at the huge runways at Gateway
Bob
signed me off to fly it by myself this Saturday, he added a 10 kt cross
wind restriction until I get some more time under my belt. I did indeed
use
a good deal of the width of the 100 + ft wide runways at gateway on some
of
the early landings.
Excitement:
We succombed to the dreaded clogged fuel filter syndrome. This has
happened so many times. I figured I had it licked as I ran a minimum
of 40
to 50 gallons of fuel through the filters and then changed them out.
The
clear filter housing was inspected before the flight also. Evidently
running fuel through them doesn't do any good unless you have the plane
strapped to a paint shaker to stir things up while sucking the gas out.
Also it appears what clogs the filter is the same color as the filter,
you
only see some black particles in the filter that look benign. Its what
you
don't see is what kills you.
The filter decided to stop passing the correct amount of fuel at the
most
in opportune time. During a touch and go after we had lifted off and
were
about a hundred feet in the air and with most of the runway behind us.
We
probably touched down within 10 ft of the end of the runway and headed
it
into the mud and water rather than the fence along Greenfield road.
The
plane handles much better in the sloppy stuff than it does on the
pavement.
The fire dept took some real good pictures and the lines through the
dirt
are straighter than any track of a Europa on the pavement. A very good
rough field aircraft! I will have the post about 20 photos that were
taken.
After talking to the guy with the FAA badge for a few minutes. It only
took a little effort to pull it out. The reserve tank was selected and
the
motor started ri ght up and we taxied back to our spot. The aircraft
was
hosed off and cowlings removed to get the stuff out of the heat
exchangers
and every thing was inspected. The plane was no worse for the wear.
It
flew the rest of the week (Thurs, Fri, Sat) with nary a peep. Cooling
was
not a major concern as expected in the Phoenix summer. Oil temps were
good. CHT was close but stayed away from 135c but not by much. I do
have
an air diverter between my oil and water heat exchangers. So maybe
this is
telling me to bend it toward the oil cooler more to get more air to the
water.
Solution:
I need to change the fuel system. At this time I have a filter at the
outlet of each side of the tank (primary and reserve). Each one of these
lines feeds the Andair selector valve and then this goes to the two
fuel
pumps. There is no redundancy here, I'm using two pumps for takeoff and
landing however I'm sucking off of one filter. The two filters need to
be
downstream of the selector valve, just ahead of each pump. That way if
a
filter gets clogged the other pump can take up the load through its own
filter. I don't see how I missed that item. The small filters with the
replaceable elements are going away and some larger disposable cheaper
automotive types are going in their place.
Other issues:
At pattern speeds with the flaps down, carbon mon-oxide builds up in
the
cockpit to a very noticable extent. We had a monitor but it wasn't
needed.
I need to put some seals at the flap actuation tube slots, like I
believe
Dave and Terry did. I also have a good breeze comming up through the
two
holes in the console that are open where the rudder pullies are. These
need
to be plugged up. I am also going to stick a small air dam 1/4" high at
the
back edge of each Naca fresh air duct to see if I can get them to grab
more
air. I have two through vents in the aft baggage bay D panel to open
up
some more to get the air flowing out the back.
The bungies could use a little tightening after sitting for at least 3
years
during the build.
Both the fine pitch stop and the coarse pitch stop on the Airmaster
need
coarsening up.
Flight instruments appear to be spot on. (I had to turn me a new
static
nose piece from aluminum for the pitot tube after busting the plastic
unit a
day before Bob arrived)
The plane has over 9 hours of its 40 hours flown off. The next week or
two
will be used to work on the above items and to snoop around to see if I
can
find a hanger to share with someone. I would think a Europa with one
wing
off would fit just nicely with a high wing aircraft. Its a real pain to
be
toting the plane around. I will probably fly two to three times more if
I
was able to park it at an airfield.
That's it for now you'll probably see the plane at Copperstate this
year.
It however will still be in primer by then.
Steve Hagar
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 30/07/2006 17:25:52 GMT Daylight Time,
sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no writes:
I believe that the reason for the unexpected, sudden wing drop even on
Europa XS with wing wash-out is that in slip/skid the outer/inner wing is
actually like a swept wing, which stalls at the tip first. This will
eliminate the wash-out effect, where the root part stalls first when flying
coordinated.
Good point Svein - curiously a swept wing is more stable laterally than a
'straight ' wing at flying speeds, for much the same reasons.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Cliff and Betty Shaw remembrance |
What ideas / opinions about having Steve (he is more than willing) to put
up an area on Europa Owners forum where letters, thoughts, comments,
pictures etc. about the Shaw's could be stored?
Once compiled, a Tribute/Memorial/Remembrance CD could be sent to family
Members.
I think such a effort and compliment would be a mini long term comfort to
family and friends.
Other ideas:
Compile a mini Business card style Tribute/Memorial/Remembrance CD
http://www.4imprint.com/Recordable-Business-Card-CDs-Screened/EXEC/DETAIL/FROMPRODUCTGROUP/~SKU003817/~CA3817.htm
and distribute to members of Europa Club with newsletter?
Bob Jacobsen deserves Honorable mention for providing details. Don't
forget the Shaw's were close friends! If you were in such a
situation.............
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "danbish" <n914rb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: N40SH (A143) Flies |
Steve,
Great News! Congratulations on the first flights! I'm sure you're broke out in
"the grin" for sure. Gary and I were just up at Oshkosh and wondering when the
big event would be. Since you've gotten A143 in the air, I guess I'll have to
redouble my efforts and get A144 up there soon!
Ordered my prop at OSH (Airmaster) and putting the final touches on my panel decisions.
I'm going to rework my fuel system some now after hearing about your
problem. I had gone with the filters in the seat pan like you but will now put
some back at the pumps as suggested. Since I have them in the seat pans already,
do you see an problem leaving them there and adding two in the back?? Probably
overkill....
I plan to make a trip up in late August so maybe we can plan to get together. All
the best and have fun flying those hours off. I know you've put heart and soul
into it for the last 4+ years so you deserve some fun. It's a beautiful plane.
All the best and happy flying,
Dan
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
I don't know but they certainly increase stall speed so there is no gain
without pain. My Europa only seems to exhibit significant wing drop in
an accelerated stall. I was therefore able to just fit a stall warner
rather than stall strips as well avoiding raising the stall speed.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Sarangan
Sent: 29 July 2006 19:59
Anyone know how much extra drag the stall strips add?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re Wing Drop in the Stall |
>Are the Classics more prone to wing drop? Do XS wings have the same
>behavior? Could a minor tolerance between the wing setup (angle of
> >attack, sweep) be a cause of wing drop in stall? Do i understand
correctly
>that stall strips are spoiling the good wing to the same quality as the
bad
> >wing? In what class are the speed penalties involved?
Jos,
I think that the original foam built wings are likely to vary slightly
more
in performance than the factory made wings purely because of the nature
of
construction. Profiling the wing is a laborious process and the end
result
is very much an 'eyeball dependent' operation. I think it would be fair
to
say that the jig made factory wings are likely to produce a more
consistent
result.
The original wings were fitted with flaps and ailerons made from foam
blocks, glass cloth and resin. Fitting the flap hinges and setting up
the
correct washout was challenging and certainly not a precise science.
Having
produced 2 of these labour intensive wings, the chances of each wing
exhibiting the same CL curve is unlikely at best. Combine these
variables
with any tolerances in the wing to fuselage incidence and you could have
some work to do to make the aircraft behave. The very nature of the
wing
seems to provide a useable amount of lift until the stall, at which
point
the loss of lift from the wing seems to be almost total. Now if one
wing
stalls before the other it is conceivable that the aircraft might roll
on
its back.
The purpose of the stall strips is exactly as you suggest - to make the
good
wing stall before it would if the stall strip was not fitted.
I think that the strip works by the nib of the strip disrupting the
boundary
layer (at particulat angle of attack) on the wing downstream of the
strip.
I have read somewhere that the strips can affect short field landing and
take-off performance - no doubt one of our aerodynamicists would be able
to
explain - I can't remember the reason.
However, as I understand it, the stall strips have negligible effect at
higher speeds.
with
level busts, the subject of stabilised approaches is very topical with
training captains. All pilots should strive to establish a stabilised
approach (on calculated landing speed, on the centreline, on glidepath,
sensible power setting) by 200 - 300 ft finals. If you have not
achieved
the ideal situation then consider going around and getting it right next
time. There is no loss off face by throwing away a poor approach -
anyone
that thinks there is, is just 'flying towards the scene of his own
accident'. All pilots should know when to throw it away - and
particularly
with inexperienced or non-current pilots - it should be sooner rather
than
later.
Remember the old fighter pilot saying - height is might and speed is
life.
All the best, and safe flying.
regards,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
Nigel, Gilles
I have had the same experience as Nigel during systems failure mode check
outs. Once the regulator was excited it continued to run.
I suspect that there might be some variation between regulators that account
for this. Actually (touch wood) my regulator has 470 hours / 2.5 years on
it and so far it is holding up well. I am hoping that a combination of a
modest load and a cool location is going to keep it that way.
Regards, Paul
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:11 AM
All I can say is that after having done an external battery start one
day I forgot to reinstate the onboard battery before disconnecting the
external power so hence the comments below.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
Sent: 27 July 2006 12:00
----- Message d'origine -----
De: nigel charles
Objet: RE: Re : Europa-List: wiring
>
>
> >The Rotax regulator needs a definite voltage to continue providing
> power. Disconnect it, or have it fail, or run your battery down, and
> you're left with very few option to keep your engine running.<
>
> Not true. If you disconnect the battery with the engine running the
> generator continues to supply the electrical system until the revs
> dropto idle. Even then, restoring the revs above idle results in the
> generator picking up the load.
>
Hi Nigel,
We run the regulator that came with our 914 on the bench, and once
disconnected, it won't come to life if the battery is down or off line,
regardless of the RPM. This lead to a series of scenarii where we could
be left with no power.
Of course it is possible that not all Rotax regulators are the same
internally, or you found a particular mode we failed to explore in our
experiments. I would be interested in more experimental details on your
findings. I could publish them in addition to our measurements.
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Allsop" <bryan(at)blackballclub.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing drop in the stall |
Regarding your question. "do XS wings have the same behaviour?"
In 1998 I had my free demonstration flight prior to purchasing my kit (360).
Ivan was the demo pilot for the day. Interestingly, he told me that mine was
the sixth kit purchase of the day, but that is beside the point.
It so happened that it was the first week of selling the XS instead of the
Classic as it bacame known. Ivan was really keen to show the benign nature
of the stal characteristics with the XS wing. He set the airspeed to stall
with power on, and with hands off he allowed the aircraft fly on just using
rudder. amazingly it flew level, nodding it's way through stall and
recovery, as he gently navigated in gentle turns just using rudder. He did
this with and without flap.
Try that with a Cessna!......No don't! In fact he did advise me not to try
it myself.
I was completely sold. Subsequent experience over the last six years has
confirmed the stall qualities of the XS to me. I stall it frequently for the
fun of it and the practice. I can honestly say that I have never had a wing
drop, and I can fly in the stall condition, but I would not attempt any
turns whilst doing it.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:54 AM
>
> Sorry to drag on with this subject, but questions remain.
> My limited experience on the Europa are one test flight with Andy on the
> GBXS before i even had a PPL. Power off stall was easy, heavy buffeting
> and a very gentle wing drop on further slowdown. The next stalls were on 2
> Classics that came to visit my home airport. Both dropped the left wing
> without any warning but the stall warners and violently, and frightened
> the hell out of me. Last time, last day day for Andy at the factory, Andy
> was test flying the demonstrator and i was writing down the numbers, same
> benign stall pattern. Now the questions: :-) Are the Classics more prone
> to wing drop? Do XS wings have the same behavior? Could a minor
> tolerance between the wing setup (angle of attack, sweep) be a cause of
> wing drop in stall? Do i understand correctly that stall strips are
> spoiling the good wing to the same quality as the bad wing? In what class
> are the speed penalties involved?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | mocal oil radiator |
Is any one using any other BSP 1/2nch `push-on` fittings than those
provided in the Europa kit? I have need of 45deg fitting to attach to oil
cooler because of local restricion. and wonder if anyone else has
substituted them - and whither the source?
While I`m begging, have you used any material with the fittings onto the
cooler, or is it just straight metal-to-metal?
Cheers,
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing drop in the stall |
Mine will do that with a Classic wing, but with power OFF (and it helps if
the
CG is well forward)!
But then the Classic has more washout.
However, if some rudder is booted in or if in turbulent conditions, then the
effect is very much like that of a Tomahawk i.e spin entry, which can then
be controlled very quickly (if it is has been anticipated!!).
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:46 PM
>
the benign nature
> of the stal characteristics with the XS wing. He set the airspeed to stall
> with power on, and with hands off he allowed the aircraft fly on just
> using rudder. amazingly it flew level, nodding it's way through stall and
> recovery, as he gently navigated in gentle turns just using rudder. He did
> this with and without flap.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing drop in the stall |
In a message dated 30/07/2006 21:54:43 GMT Standard Time,
ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk writes:
But then the Classic has more washout.
The Classic had 1.5 degree washout, the XS HAS 2.5 DEGREES WASHOUT
Cheers,
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cliff and Betty Shaw remembrance |
Hi All,
I sent a private email to Bob Jacobsen, for him to run this idea past the
Shaw family.....
During the Funeral ceremony, at a pre-determined time [ Zulu, so we all are
aware of the same moment in time] there is a one minute silence, so we can all
stop whatever we are doing, and and think of the passing of Cliff and
Betty.........
If this is not what the Family want, we could do something on our own,
perhaps at the P.F.A. Rally, at the end of the Europa Club AGM, we could have
a
minutes silence, again, if it was set at a specific time,all the Europa
community, wherever in the world they might be, could stop for that same minute......
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: mocal oil radiator |
In a message dated 30/07/2006 21:53:35 GMT Standard Time, VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
writes:
Is any one using any other BSP 1/2=ECnch `push-on` fittings than those
provided in the Europa kit? I have need of 45deg fitting to attach to oil
cooler because of local restricion. and wonder if anyone else has
substituted them - and whither the source?
While I`m begging, have you used any material with the fittings onto the
cooler, or is it just straight metal-to-metal?
Hi Ferg,
Think Automotive, at Twickenham, Middlesex, UK will have the fittings, I ca
n
get you one, and post it if you want ?
Oil the taper and threads, don't use any '' goo '' !
Cheers,
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "karelvranken" <karelvranken(at)hotmail.com> |
Thank you Bob, that's what I was waiting for. And I fly since 1959 even
though I try to be humble.
Karel Vranken
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:41 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
In a message dated 29/07/2006 09:35:07 GMT Standard Time, BEBERRY(at)aol.com
writes:
I have never known a severe - or even comparatively slight wing drop in the
stall, power on or off, in GA aircraft so the apparent Europa problem is
worrying and needs some more in depth investigation.
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
There is no problem with the DESIGN of the Europa, but each individual
aircraft needs to be test flown, and individually set up with regard to any stall
strip fitment / adjustment.
For your information / peace of mind, I was involved with the test flights
of the Europa you have purchased, and although it may look like a piece of
s**t, it is very light, and true, and the stall [ or rather , lack of,] is one
of
the most benign I have experienced. Power on stalls just do not happen,
unless you are totally asleep, at full throttle, [ 100 percent ] stick fully
back, it just ''nods'' and maintains height. I have flown a full circuit at
Wombleton [ at 3000 ' ] at full power / stick full aft, keep the ball in the
middle and your eye on the temps...... you could do that all day........ power
off was equally a non event, nose falls through 20 degrees / lose 50 feet.
Enjoy.......
Cheers,
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Boulet <possibletodo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N40SH (A143) Flies |
Thanks for the details Steve and congrats. My only two cents is that the disposable
fuel filter you're speaking of needs to be a high pressure one- the cheap
glass see thru ones won't suffice. Take a look at high performance racing type
fuel filters.
Take care,
Paul Boulet, N914PB
testing after monowheel to tri gear conversion
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:55:55 AM
N40SH with a 914 and an Airmaster prop took to the air at Gateway Airport under
the capable and skillful hands of Bob Lindsay. The plane works as advertized.
Bob noted that it was the smoothest Rotax he has flown behind yet. This
is no doubt due to the good job that Phoenix Conposites did balancing the
prop and my experience I had in balancing the Bings on my old BMW Paris-Dakar
with my murcury manometers, It must be the hazardous material in the tubes that
gives you just the right amount of granularity in your adjustments. The plane
is a good deal faster and more efficient than the spam cans I am used to.
We passed the Coolidge airport that usually takes 30 minutes to get to in
only about 20 minutes. I didn't expect it to show up so soon.
The aircraft is very stable, the wings giving a very good rumble when approaching
a clean stall is un-mistakeable. With one person aboard there is left wing
drop in a dirty stall at about 40 kts. Though not much worse than I have experienced
in a certificated plane. With 2 people aboard it becomes more stable
in the dirty stall. The times I have tried it., it appeared to just burble
a bit before letting go.
The plane has been tested for flutter to Vne plus a good margin and everything
was fine and stable. Some basic aerobatic maneuvers were tested. The plane
flies like it is on rails.
All subsequent flights during the week originated from Falcon Field with me doing
my practice take offs and landings at the huge runways at Gateway Bob signed
me off to fly it by myself this Saturday, he added a 10 kt cross wind restriction
until I get some more time under my belt. I did indeed use a good deal
of the width of the 100 + ft wide runways at gateway on some of the early
landings.
Excitement:
We succombed to the dreaded clogged fuel filter syndrome. This has happened
so many times. I figured I had it licked as I ran a minimum of 40 to 50 gallons
of fuel through the filters and then changed them out. The clear filter
housing was inspected before the flight also. Evidently running fuel through
them doesn't do any good unless you have the plane strapped to a paint shaker
to stir things up while sucking the gas out. Also it appears what clogs
the filter is the same color as the filter, you only see some black particles
in the filter that look benign. Its what you don't see is what kills you.
The filter decided to stop passing the correct amount of fuel at the most in
opportune time. During a touch and go after we had lifted off and were about
a hundred feet in the air and with most of the runway behind us. We probably
touched down within 10 ft of the end of the runway and headed it into the
mud and water rather than the fence along Greenfield road. The plane handles
much better in the sloppy stuff than it does on the pavement. The fire dept
took some real good pictures and the lines through the dirt are straighter
than any track of a Europa on the pavement. A very good rough field aircraft!
I will have the post about 20 photos that were taken. After talking to the
guy with the FAA badge for a few minutes. It only took a little effort to
pull it out. The reserve tank was selected and the motor started ri ght up
and we taxied back to our spot. The aircraft was hosed off and cowlings removed
to get the stuff out of the heat exchangers and
every thing was inspected. The plane was no worse for the wear. It flew the
rest of the week (Thurs, Fri, Sat) with nary a peep. Cooling was not a major
concern as expected in the Phoenix summer. Oil temps were good. CHT was
close but stayed away from 135c but not by much. I do have an air diverter between
my oil and water heat exchangers. So maybe this is telling me to bend
it toward the oil cooler more to get more air to the water.
Solution:
I need to change the fuel system. At this time I have a filter at the outlet
of each side of the tank (primary and reserve). Each one of these lines feeds
the Andair selector valve and then this goes to the two fuel pumps. There is
no redundancy here, I'm using two pumps for takeoff and landing however I'm
sucking off of one filter. The two filters need to be downstream of the selector
valve, just ahead of each pump. That way if a filter gets clogged the other
pump can take up the load through its own filter. I don't see how I missed
that item. The small filters with the replaceable elements are going away
and some larger disposable cheaper automotive types are going in their place.
Other issues:
At pattern speeds with the flaps down, carbon mon-oxide builds up in the cockpit
to a very noticable extent. We had a monitor but it wasn't needed. I need
to put some seals at the flap actuation tube slots, like I believe Dave and
Terry did. I also have a good breeze comming up through the two holes in the
console that are open where the rudder pullies are. These need to be plugged
up. I am also going to stick a small air dam 1/4" high at the back edge of each
Naca fresh air duct to see if I can get them to grab more air. I have two
through vents in the aft baggage bay D panel to open up some more to get the
air flowing out the back.
The bungies could use a little tightening after sitting for at least 3 years during
the build.
Both the fine pitch stop and the coarse pitch stop on the Airmaster need coarsening
up.
Flight instruments appear to be spot on. (I had to turn me a new static nose
piece from aluminum for the pitot tube after busting the plastic unit a day before
Bob arrived)
The plane has over 9 hours of its 40 hours flown off. The next week or two will
be used to work on the above items and to snoop around to see if I can find
a hanger to share with someone. I would think a Europa with one wing off would
fit just nicely with a high wing aircraft. Its a real pain to be toting
the plane around. I will probably fly two to three times more if I was able to
park it at an airfield.
That's it for now you'll probably see the plane at Copperstate this year. It
however will still be in primer by then.
Steve Hagar
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve v." <s.vestuti(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | RE: mocal oil radiator |
Hi Ferg, yes i used a 45deg oil cooler fitting on the port side ( its definitely
needed after lowering the oil cooler Mod.), i picked it up from a local hydraulic
supplier, it worked very well,
steve vestuti #573
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
Hear hear Nev !!!!!
The fact is that many Europa owners are ex military/ professional
pilots. If there was a significant design fault/ problem we would have
heard by now.
Like any other manufactured aircraft, GA or Kitplane it needs to be test
flown to eliminate the bugs. Even commercial jets which are manufactured
to very fine tolerances will exhibit small differences in their flying
charcteristics.
The Europa record speaks for itself. Over 15 years in production ad over
1000 aircraft sold (ie: kits) and this accident is the FIRST one of it's
kind.
Dont bother investigating a problem that dosent exist. Just make sure
the aircraft is set up properly in the first place.
----- Original Message -----
From: NevEyre(at)aol.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing drop in the stall
In a message dated 29/07/2006 09:35:07 GMT Standard Time,
BEBERRY(at)aol.com writes:
I have never known a severe - or even comparatively slight wing drop
in the stall, power on or off, in GA aircraft so the apparent Europa
problem is worrying and needs some more in depth investigation.
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
There is no problem with the DESIGN of the Europa, but each individual
aircraft needs to be test flown, and individually set up with regard to
any stall strip fitment / adjustment.
For your information / peace of mind, I was involved with the test
flights of the Europa you have purchased, and although it may look like
a piece of s**t, it is very light, and true, and the stall [ or rather ,
lack of,] is one of the most benign I have experienced. Power on stalls
just do not happen, unless you are totally asleep, at full throttle, [
100 percent ] stick fully back, it just ''nods'' and maintains height. I
have flown a full circuit at Wombleton [ at 3000 ' ] at full power /
stick full aft, keep the ball in the middle and your eye on the
temps...... you could do that all day........ power off was equally a
non event, nose falls through 20 degrees / lose 50 feet.
Enjoy.......
Cheers,
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing drop in the stall |
Nev,
Grateful thanks for your message re G PUDS which has set my mind at rest. I
have had little opportunity to actually fly the aircraft since last year as
I have been away abroad a good deal of the time and have spent much time (and
money!) doing a complete renovation , including paint, Arplast prop,
complete new interior inc. purpose made seats, speed kit, etc. Now awaiting Pete
Jeffers to call and arrange inspection and Test flights.
Unfortunately, in the meantime my wife has suffered a severe injury which
will mean that she is unlikely to regain full use of her left arm and the
likeliehood of her being able to access and egress the a/c is slim. I may have
to
completely re-think our flying in the future so G PUDS may well appear on
the market in due course.
Best wishes,
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
Nice to hear you are flying and good luck. Irene and I have just got to
55 hours on G-IANI (914 and Airmaster). I hope the comments below might
be helpful.
1) We have not had any CO problems. We have removable panels over the
two holes above the rudder plies. We also have a good seal on the
rudder pedal shafts where they pass through the foot wells. As far as
possible the cockpit is sealed from air entering in unwanted places.
This includes a sticky label over the hole in the throttle quadrant.
2) The flap tube slots (and possibly the elevator trim tab slots) cause
the whole of the rear of the aircraft behind the "D" panel to be above
cockpit pressure. Your " two through vents in the aft baggage bay D
panel" probably have air coming in from the rear REDUCING the flow
through the NACA vents. Try some wool tuffs on them. We are
experimenting with a vent in the "D" panel ducted to the fin closeout
(ie the area the rudder swings in). The area of the duct is 4 square
inches). The logic for this is that (Andy Draper and I) think this is
a low pressure area due to the venturi effect of the airflow over the
fin/rudder boundary. Subjectively this seems to work. Were before we
had little flow through the NACA vents below 100 Knots, we now have a
steady flow at all airspeeds. I have remove the eyeball vents we had
(area 2 square inches) and just left the open holes (about 4 square
inches). I want to try and get some pressure and flow reading with and
without the duct but have not yet had the opportunity. If you are
interested in this I can forward photos of what we have done.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com> |
After 23 flying hours, G-IRON has delveloped and oil leak. After one
hours flying about a teaspoonfull of oil appears to have come from the
oil seal on the prop sfaft and then been thrown of the prop flange onto
the spinner backplate.
The aircraft was taken to Skydrive who replaced the oil front seal on
the prop shaft and checked the shaft. The engine was ground run for 10
minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1 hour)
and the same oil leak occured.
The aircraft was again taken to Skydrive who replaced the gearbox case,
oilseal, front bearing and prop shaft. The engine was ground run for 10
minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1 hour)
and the same oil leak occured again. At the moment Skydrive are unsure
why this has happened as they have never had a similar problem on some
2000 , 91x series, engines.
Has anyone got any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
----- Message d'origine -----
De: G-IANI
Objet: RE: Europa-List: 914 Oil leak
>
>
> After 23 flying hours, G-IRON has delveloped and oil leak. After one
> hours flying about a teaspoonfull of oil appears to have come from the
> oil seal on the prop sfaft and then been thrown of the prop flange
> ontothe spinner backplate.
>
>
> The aircraft was taken to Skydrive who replaced the oil front seal on
> the prop shaft and checked the shaft. The engine was ground run
> for 10
> minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1
> hour)and the same oil leak occured.
>
> The aircraft was again taken to Skydrive who replaced the gearbox
> case,oilseal, front bearing and prop shaft. The engine was ground
> run for 10
> minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1
> hour)and the same oil leak occured again. At the moment Skydrive
> are unsure
> why this has happened as they have never had a similar problem on some
> 2000 , 91x series, engines.
>
> Has anyone got any ideas?
>
>
Is everything correct with the breather and blowby ?
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
Hi Ian
You are sure it is an oil leak are you? I get a small smear on my top
cowl which I thought was oil. It turned out to be grease from the prop.
When servicing the prop the schedule calls for quite a lot of grease and
I think the excess gets squeezed out through the blade roots an ends up
on the cowl. This is particularly the case in hot weather when the
grease becomes thin and looks like oil. When I subsequently service the
prop the next time there is still plenty of grease there so perhaps we
are being encouraged to put more grease in than is required.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: 31 July 2006 11:38
After 23 flying hours, G-IRON has delveloped and oil leak. After one
hours flying about a teaspoonfull of oil appears to have come from the
oil seal on the prop sfaft and then been thrown of the prop flange onto
the spinner backplate.
The aircraft was taken to Skydrive who replaced the oil front seal on
the prop shaft and checked the shaft. The engine was ground run for 10
minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1 hour)
and the same oil leak occured.
The aircraft was again taken to Skydrive who replaced the gearbox case,
oilseal, front bearing and prop shaft. The engine was ground run for 10
minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1 hour)
and the same oil leak occured again. At the moment Skydrive are unsure
why this has happened as they have never had a similar problem on some
2000 , 91x series, engines.
Has anyone got any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "astills" <astills(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
Steve,
Congratulations on your flights. I know its been a long time coming for
you and a lot of work.
I can tell from your comments that it was well worth it. Sorry about the
excitement from your engine
out but I have to lament that the Europa filters are not worth much. I
changed mine to 2" automotive
types that my friend Mark found for me. Fits just right under the seats
and a lot more filter surface. I
too have run my gas through 4-5 times and came up with not much. May have
to put a "Shaker" on it as
as per your obervations. I'll have to get over and see the finished
product before long. If your flying
over my section of town when you get your 40 flown off stop off at
Glendale for breakfast and I'll buy.
I've taken a hanger there now. Again...congratulations
Al Stills
N625Az
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
>>> Your " two through vents in the aft baggage bay D panel" probably
have air coming in from the rear REDUCING the flow through the NACA
vents.
Before coming to NZ, ZK-UBD flew in Australia and the builder had added
two vents in the 'D' into the aft area. In early flight testing it was
noted that CO was entering the cabin and after some experimenting it was
found that the problem was the two vents. When these were blocked off
the CO problem went away.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N40SH (A143) Flies |
>N40SH with a 914 and an Airmaster prop took to the air at Gateway
>Airport under the capable and skillful hands of Bob Lindsay
Steve - congratulations!
Your full account of test flight experiences is most welcome.
For the record, please, what day was the first flight?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail website www.europaclub.org.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rman <topglock(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 914 Oil leak |
Gilles may be right on the money, here. If the breather is restricted,
oil will pass by the seals, new or not. That would be my first place to
look...
Jeff - Baby Blue
200 hours and just finished mod 71 and first annual...
Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr wrote:
> ----- Message d'origine ----- De: G-IANI Date:
> Lundi, Juillet 31, 2006 12:38 pm Objet: RE: Europa-List: 914 Oil leak
>
> >
> >
> > After 23 flying hours, G-IRON has delveloped and oil leak. After one
> > hours flying about a teaspoonfull of oil appears to have come from the
> > oil seal on the prop sfaft and then been thrown of the prop flange
> > ontothe spinner backplate.
> >
> >
> > The aircraft was taken to Skydrive who replaced the oil front seal on
> > the prop shaft and checked the shaft. The engine was ground run
> > for 10
> > minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1
> > hour)and the same oil leak occured.
> >
> > The aircraft was again taken to Skydrive who replaced the gearbox
> > case,oilseal, front bearing and prop shaft. The engine was ground
> > run for 10
> > minutes with no apparent oil loss. The next flight (again about 1
> > hour)and the same oil leak occured again. At the moment Skydrive
> > are unsure
> > why this has happened as they have never had a similar problem on some
> > 2000 , 91x series, engines.
> >
> > Has anyone got any ideas?
> >
> >
>
> Is everything correct with the breather and blowby ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Gilles Thesee
>
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight... |
Dear Listers,
This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a new Quad-processor
2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an Ultra 320 SCSI
Raid 5 disk system and 5GB of DDR2 RAM.
As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest version of
Redhat Linux. Most of the software configuration work is already done for the
migration, but I still have to sync all of the archive and forum data from the
old system to the new system. I am anticipating about 2 to 3 hours of downtime
for me to fully make the transition, although it could be considerable less
if everything goes according to plan.
The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the work,
and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the upgrade.
Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web Server,
and List message distribution will function as normal.
This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web Server
and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing performance following
the upgrade!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | N40SH (A143) Flies |
Tony,
I believe Ian is venting via scat hose all the way to an opening inthe
sternpost.
Karl
>From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: N40SH (A143) Flies
>Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:43:57 +1200
>
> >>> Your " two through vents in the aft baggage bay D panel" probably
>have air coming in from the rear REDUCING the flow through the NACA
>vents.
>
>Before coming to NZ, ZK-UBD flew in Australia and the builder had added
>two vents in the 'D' into the aft area. In early flight testing it was
>noted that CO was entering the cabin and after some experimenting it was
>found that the problem was the two vents. When these were blocked off
>the CO problem went away.
>
>Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Oshkosh Accident |
In the week or so that has elapsed since the tragic loss of Cliff and Betty
Shaw in their Europa at Oshkosh, in addition to the many expressions of
grief and sympathy which we all share, there have been many postings on this
list regarding the handling characteristics of the aircraft and their
possible contribution to the crash. Some of the posts might be regarded as
scaremongering, and the Europa Club Committee feels it is appropriate to
examine the aspects that might have a bearing on flight safety so that we
all may learn something from the collective thoughts that have followed this
tragedy.
that the aircraft stalled on final approach and appeared to hit the ground
inverted. We do not wish to speculate as to the possibility of pilot
incapacitation or mechanical failure - this is properly left to the NTSB
investigation and their final report - but we have reviewed the design,
build and operation of Europa in the context of a stall/spin accident and
would like to share the following thoughts with the aim of helping others to
think in a way that may help to prevent future accidents.
The handling of the Europa in flight is general regarded as being superior
to many other light aircraft, including certified GA aircraft, and we would
not wish people to gain the impression that its response near and at the
stall was particularly dangerous. Many aircraft will drop a wing at the
stall, especially if the slip ball is not in the centre, and some homebuilt
aircraft may exaggerate this tendency if there is a significant inaccuracy
in build.
When referring to measures used in preventing accidents, airline people use
the analogy of 'layers'. All these 'layers' are like slices of cheese with
holes in them. The potential accident is trying to find its way through and
occasionally it finds a hole in a layer of cheese. Provided the layers of
cheese have few enough holes and there are enough layers and the holes don't
line up, the potential accident should not become a reality. Layers can be
anything from pilot training and aircraft design right through engineering
practices and construction skills to pilot skill and coping with workload.
This helps us move away from scape-goating and looking at ways of either
adding extra layers or reducing the holes in layers. In the present
situation the following layers come to mind:
Design - We believe this was both professional and sound. We were lucky to
have someone as knowledgeable as Don Dykins. If there had been a fundamental
design problem it would have been identified before now.
Construction - Without doubt there are bigger differences in construction of
Classics rather than XS Europas. In both cases accurately setting up
identical angles of incidence and identical flap positions between wings is
every bit as important as aiming for the specified numbers. To ensure the
washout is at least as much as that intended aileron droop should be
avoided. If necessary both ailerons should be a little raised in straight
and level flight. This is generally easier to arrange as the balance weight
clearances from the top wing surface can be a problem if there is any droop.
Pilot training - Whilst monowheels need specific skills for take-off and
landing, stalls and the handling skills required should be no more demanding
than any other aircraft type.
Test Flying - Where possible this should be done by someone with significant
Europa experience on many different aircraft. Also to avoid conflict of
interest at least some test flying should be done by someone with experience
who is not the owner. Where any unusual stall handling is observed this
should be addressed before the aircraft receives its permit. Whether stalls
trips and/or stall warners are used there should be no problem identifying
the impending stall at least 5 to 7kts above the stall. As parts can move
slightly (for instance due to wear) any changes of stall handling during
annual flight tests should be addressed without delay.
Pilot skills - Practice identifying the approaching stall and carrying out
the stall recovery with minimum height loss regularly. Be sure to include
stalls with gear and flap down as well as clean and practice identifying
stalls in the turn. Obviously this should be done at a safe height. Always
fly the aircraft in balanced flight (ie not cross controlled) unless you
have significant excess speed above the stall. When flying in a high
workload environment keep to as standard a pattern as possible. Outside
distractions such as many other aircraft at an airshow or landing at a
difficult strip or landing in bad weather must not prevent accurate control
of speed and flightpath. We know this has led to landing with gear retracted
in monowheels so stalling on base leg or on finals is just as possible in
these situations. As they say Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. Another adage
we use in the airline world is Plane - Path - People. These help you
prioritise your tasks. Do not feel pressurised to continue an approach if
things are not right.
Finally, whilst on the topic of adages, there are two more which come to
mind:
The superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid using his superior
skill.
There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.
We hope this very sad event has helped the rest of us take on board how
suddenly things can change when we are least expecting it.
Fly safely
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
safety(at)europaclub.org.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Oshkosh Accident |
Mike Gregory's notes are well made.
One point needs comment - flying cross controlled. I have been in the habit
of deliberately doing this in strongish crosswinds ( say 12 Knots +) in a
Cherokee but have not attempted this in a Europa.
There have always, as far as I know, been two recommended ways of flying
cross wind approaches i.e. fly the centre line with rudder - with nose into wind
, and kick straight just before touch down or.. fly straight down the centre
line with into wind aileron and opposite rudder, thus keeping the nose in line
with the runway and 'into wind 'wing low.
Recent comments about flying cross controlled appear to show that this
latter method may not be a good idea.
Comments?
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | Upside down Europa |
I regularly practice stalling but up to now have generally only done so
when fairly straight and level. With all the discussion about stalling
in the turn, I thought I would have a go yesterday. Climbed to about
5000ft. and tried stalling in various configurations. Flaps down I
couldn't really get the aircraft to drop a wing although I didn't put in
a lot of rudder. However, stalling clean with the aircraft balanced and
about 20/30 degrees of bank, the wing dropped violently and the rotation
continued until I very rapidly found myself completely inverted.
Cushions, maps etc. all over the place. The aircraft pulled out without
any problem (not quite sure which way as I was somewhat disoriented) but
I lost somewhere over 500 foot in the process.
A salutary lesson and will certainly make me think hard about
maintaining airspeed and being careful in turns nearer to the ground.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | FW: Oshkosh Accident |
Patrick
I think the main point is that if you wish to fly cross controlled on
the approach just make sure you have plenty of margin above the wings
level stall speed. This is not just for Europas but for any aircraft. I
fly cross controlled approaches in strong cross winds with the B777 as
does the autopilot when I let it but in those conditions I would make
sure the speed remains well above the minimum. Having said that excess
speed can also be a problem going into small strips. If the conditions
are challenging you probably would not be attempting that anyway.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BEBERRY(at)aol.com
Sent: 01 August 2006 09:56
Mike Gregory's notes are well made.
One point needs comment - flying cross controlled. I have been in the
habit of deliberately doing this in strongish crosswinds ( say 12 Knots
+) in a Cherokee but have not attempted this in a Europa.
There have always, as far as I know, been two recommended ways of flying
cross wind approaches i.e. fly the centre line with rudder - with nose
into wind , and kick straight just before touch down or.. fly straight
down the centre line with into wind aileron and opposite rudder, thus
keeping the nose in line with the runway and 'into wind 'wing low.
Recent comments about flying cross controlled appear to show that this
latter method may not be a good idea.
Comments?
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Upside down Europa |
Flaps down I
> couldn't really get the aircraft to drop a wing although I didn't
> put in
> a lot of rudder. However, stalling clean with the aircraft
> balanced and
> about 20/30 degrees of bank, the wing dropped violently and the
> rotationcontinued until I very rapidly found myself completely
> inverted.
Hi Richard and all,
I have been reading the messages following the sad accident at Oshkosh. My thoughts
went to the family and friends.
I got the impression that some of the Europa flyers would benefit from additional
stall practice, preferably with an instructor. What compelled me to chime in
is your mention of rudder. Of course, in any attempt at intentional stalls,
the slip ball must be as centered as possible. The stall in a turn is no different
: the ball must be centered. Most light airplanes are very docile in a turn,
and many of them gently lower the upper wing at the stall, after a lot of
warning.
I would not try a stall with much rudder inputs in a non-aerobatic airplane : a
stall with rudder input is exactly what we do to spin an aircraft.
What you describe in your message looks very much like a snap (flick for the British)
entry into a spin. There is a possibility that the slip ball might have
been off-centre. It would be interesting to try again at a safe altitude, with
a knowledgeable instructor or aerobatic pilot. A the ball centered, of course.
There may be some dispersion in flight behaviour due to construction, but it is
very unlikely that the Europa have such a nasty stall characteristic.
FWIW,
Best regards,
Gilles Thesee
Aerobatics FI,
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevpond(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Oshkosh Accident |
Well said Mike,
Trev Pond
Kit 598
In a message dated 01/08/2006 09:12:44 GMT Daylight Time,
m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com writes:
In the week or so that has elapsed since the tragic loss of Cliff and Betty
Shaw in their Europa at Oshkosh, in addition to the many expressions of gri
ef
and sympathy which we all share, there have been many postings on this list
regarding the handling characteristics of the aircraft and their possible
contribution to the crash. Some of the posts might be regarded as
scaremongering, and the Europa Club Committee feels it is appropriate to ex
amine the
aspects that might have a bearing on flight safety so that we all may learn
something from the collective thoughts that have followed this tragedy.
we know
that the aircraft stalled on final approach and appeared to hit the ground
inverted. We do not wish to speculate as to the possibility of pilot
incapacitation or mechanical failure =94 this is properly left to the
NTSB investigation
and their final report =94 but we have reviewed the design, build and
operation of Europa in the context of a stall/spin accident and would like
to share
the following thoughts with the aim of helping others to think in a way tha
t
may help to prevent future accidents.
The handling of the Europa in flight is general regarded as being superior
to many other light aircraft, including certified GA aircraft, and we would
not wish people to gain the impression that its response near and at the st
all
was particularly dangerous. Many aircraft will drop a wing at the stall,
especially if the slip ball is not in the centre, and some homebuilt aircra
ft
may exaggerate this tendency if there is a significant inaccuracy in build.
When referring to measures used in preventing accidents, airline people use
the analogy of =98layers=99. All these =98layers
=99 are like slices of cheese with
holes in them. The potential accident is trying to find its way through and
occasionally it finds a hole in a layer of cheese. Provided the layers of
cheese have few enough holes and there are enough layers and the holes don
=99t
line up, the potential accident should not become a reality. Layers can be
anything from pilot training and aircraft design right through engineering
practices and construction skills to pilot skill and coping with workload.
This
helps us move away from scape-goating and looking at ways of either adding
extra
layers or reducing the holes in layers. In the present situation the
following layers come to mind:
Design =93 We believe this was both professional and sound. We were l
ucky to
have someone as knowledgeable as Don Dykins. If there had been a fundamenta
l
design problem it would have been identified before now.
Construction =93 Without doubt there are bigger differences in constr
uction of
Classics rather than XS Europas. In both cases accurately setting up
identical angles of incidence and identical flap positions between wings is
every
bit as important as aiming for the specified numbers. To ensure the washout
is
at least as much as that intended aileron droop should be avoided. If
necessary both ailerons should be a little raised in straight and level fli
ght. This
is generally easier to arrange as the balance weight clearances from the to
p
wing surface can be a problem if there is any droop.
Pilot training =93 Whilst monowheels need specific skills for take-o
ff and
landing, stalls and the handling skills required should be no more demandin
g
than any other aircraft type.
Test Flying =93 Where possible this should be done by someone with
significant Europa experience on many different aircraft. Also to avoid con
flict of
interest at least some test flying should be done by someone with experienc
e who
is not the owner. Where any unusual stall handling is observed this should
be addressed before the aircraft receives its permit. Whether stalls trips
and/or stall warners are used there should be no problem identifying the
impending stall at least 5 to 7kts above the stall. As parts can move sligh
tly (for
instance due to wear) any changes of stall handling during annual flight
tests should be addressed without delay.
Pilot skills =93 Practice identifying the approaching stall and carr
ying out
the stall recovery with minimum height loss regularly. Be sure to include
stalls with gear and flap down as well as clean and practice identifying st
alls
in the turn. Obviously this should be done at a safe height. Always fly the
aircraft in balanced flight (ie not cross controlled) unless you have
significant excess speed above the stall. When flying in a high workload en
vironment
keep to as standard a pattern as possible. Outside distractions such as man
y
other aircraft at an airshow or landing at a difficult strip or landing in
bad weather must not prevent accurate control of speed and flightpath. We k
now
this has led to landing with gear retracted in monowheels so stalling on bas
e
leg or on finals is just as possible in these situations. As they say Aviat
e
=93 Navigate =93 Communicate. Another adage we use in the airli
ne world is
Plane - Path - People. These help you prioritise your tasks. Do not feel
pressurised to continue an approach if things are not right.
Finally, whilst on the topic of adages, there are two more which come to
mind:
The superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid using his superior
skill.
There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.
We hope this very sad event has helped the rest of us take on board how
suddenly things can change when we are least expecting it.
Fly safely
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
_safety(at)europaclub.org.uk_ (mailto:safety(at)europaclub.org.uk)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Oshkosh Accident |
In a message dated 01/08/2006 11:53:21 GMT Daylight Time,
nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk writes:
I think the main point is that if you wish to fly cross controlled on the
approach just make sure you have plenty of margin above the wings level stall
speed. This is not just for Europas but for any aircraft. I fly cross
controlled approaches in strong cross winds with the B777 as does the autopilot
when
I let it but in those conditions I would make sure the speed remains well
above the minimum. Having said that excess speed can also be a problem going
into small strips. If the conditions are challenging you probably would not be
attempting that anyway.
Nigel Charles
Thanks for the comments. As always it boils down to having a good speed
margin. I regularly use an 800 yd grass strip and never have trouble in
stopping in half the length even with 10+ knots above min approach speed.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Allsop" <bryan(at)blackballclub.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upside down Europa |
Hi Richard,
I wouldn't mind seeing you demonstrate that one on the next DOTH.
Did the aircraft really sort it self out, or did you have something to
do with it?
Best regards.
Bryan Allsop. G BYSA XS 912s MONO.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Upside down Europa
I regularly practice stalling but up to now have generally only done
so when fairly straight and level. With all the discussion about
stalling in the turn, I thought I would have a go yesterday. Climbed to
about 5000ft. and tried stalling in various configurations. Flaps down I
couldn't really get the aircraft to drop a wing although I didn't put in
a lot of rudder. However, stalling clean with the aircraft balanced and
about 20/30 degrees of bank, the wing dropped violently and the rotation
continued until I very rapidly found myself completely inverted.
Cushions, maps etc. all over the place. The aircraft pulled out without
any problem (not quite sure which way as I was somewhat disoriented) but
I lost somewhere over 500 foot in the process.
A salutary lesson and will certainly make me think hard about
maintaining airspeed and being careful in turns nearer to the ground.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
Hi All
I was greatly saddend to hear about Cliff Shaw's accident. His happened
near the ground on approach; as most of you know I have some experience
of Europa stall/spin, mine happened just after take off. In both cases
spin recovery is impossible this close to the ground, indeed partial
recovery may make things worse. You hit the ground harder.
Pete Clarke tested the spins of the original Classic prototype, G-YURO
extensively. One notable feature he found was that even after a twelve
turn spin he could let go of the controls and the aeroplane would
recover in less than two turns.
There are many GA types that are designed to be almost spin proof, this
is a mixed blessing because if it's hard to spin it will be just as hard
to stop the spin when it occurs. The Yankee was notorious and there were
several fatal accidents until intentional spinning during training was
forbidden. Remember also that very few certified or homebuilt GA types
had anything like the testing the Europa had. I remember Richard Trikle
asking Pete Clarke if he'd test the Kiss. No American pilot was prepared
to do it.
There are quite a few Classics that have a nasty wing drop flaps down.
G-KWIP was one. We had removed the stall strips because we felt we
needed the extra take off performance for farm strip flying. Ours was
around 450 meters at the time. The trouble with the Classic wing is that
it is not easy to finish the leading edge without degrading the very
subtle leading edge shape, which has a slight bump underneath and a
fairly sharp nose radius. Eventually, after much arm twisting, I got
hold of the coordinates of the airfoil and made some templates for the
leading edge. These were used on several Classics, Charlie Laverty's,
Tony Higgins' and Colin Smallwood's, I haven't heard from Tony re flying
qualities but the other two have excellent stall characteristics and so
does Trevor Jackson's, (kit no. 4!)
This illustrates the variability that Mike Parkin mentions.
Ivan did a lot of tuft testing trying to master the stalling
characterisitics and found that as long as the stall starts at the
leading edge it will be relatively progressive. However, sometimes the
stall starts at the trailing edge and then the whole upper surface
"unzips" and will cause a sharp wing drop. The stall strips help to make
the stall start at the front and at the wing root. The sharp LE radius
has a similar effect and I'm sure this is why some Classics are
unpredictable ( too large LE radius) whereas most XSs, which have a jig
moulded LE are relatively benign. (Not that I've flown many btw, so get
a second opinion!) The XS also has more washout which helps keep the
stall away from the tips.
Mike will have a much more valid opinion than me but I believe the
sensible way to monitor airspeed is by angle of attack, the instrument
tells that that your airspeed is going to change, you can correct the
changed AoA instantly and speed won't change The ASI tells you at least
20 seconds after it's changed which means you then have to regain
momentum which will take another 20 seconds or more. Another advantage
that correct AoA is not dependant on weight, so the figure for stall,
cruise max range etc all remain constant.
my 2 cents
Graham
>From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Re Wing Drop in the Stall
>
>
> Jos,
>
>I think that the original foam built wings are likely to vary slightly
>more
>in performance than the factory made wings purely because of the nature
>of
>construction. Profiling the wing is a laborious process and the end
>result
>is very much an 'eyeball dependent' operation. I think it would be fair
>to
>say that the jig made factory wings are likely to produce a more
>consistent
>result.
> The very nature of the
>wing
>seems to provide a useable amount of lift until the stall, at which
>point
>the loss of lift from the wing seems to be almost total. Now if one
>wing
>stalls before the other it is conceivable that the aircraft might roll
>on
>its back.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | Upside down Europa |
Bryan.
Yep. I just centred the stick and waited for something to happen that I
could recognise; i.e. nose down, speed increasing. Then I think I just
blinked a couple of times levelled the wings and pulled out. The
aircraft did most of the sorting. I guess I am just happy that it
didn't start to spin inverted as I haven't learned how to get out of
that one. Don't really want to try either.
Cheers.
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Allsop
Sent: 01 August 2006 20:43
Hi Richard,
I wouldn't mind seeing you demonstrate that one on the next DOTH.
Did the aircraft really sort it self out, or did you have something to
do with it?
Best regards.
Bryan Allsop. G BYSA XS 912s MONO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Anyone have fuel lines inside cockpit by pilot? |
I have a Monowheel with Airbrake lever installed. Both makes for less
options when running fuel lines to the engine.
My plan is to run fuel lines through some PVC plastic conduit on the port
side of the tunnel, punch into the cockpit through the pilot right side
thigh support on the fuse floor, sneak under the airbrake torque tube /
horn.
I will transition just about under the Airbrake torque tube from supplied
fuel hose to aeroquip stainless steel braided fuel hose the same diameter.
The transition will happen at 2 flowscan transducers.
Now punch through the left cockpit module flange bout 4 inches below the
roof into the engine compartment, between the footwell side and the
vertical undercarriage mounting frame tube.
Anyone done similar? Are you flying?
How did you mount hoses?
Did you cover hoses with anything?
What are the details of how you made firewall penetration?
Any pictures?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
Folks,
graham(at)gflight.f9.co.u wrote:
>
> Mike will have a much more valid opinion than me but I believe the
> sensible way to monitor airspeed is by angle of attack, the instrument
> tells that that your airspeed is going to change, you can correct the
> changed AoA instantly and speed won't change The ASI tells you at least
> 20 seconds after it's changed which means you then have to regain
> momentum which will take another 20 seconds or more. Another advantage
> that correct AoA is not dependant on weight, so the figure for stall,
> cruise max range etc all remain constant.
> my 2 cents
> Graham
>
There is much good information in Graham's message but I feel that this last paragraph
is misleading. Unless your ASI is particularly sluggish, it will indicate
changes in airspeed almost instantly (i.e. not 20 seconds later). What takes
the time is actually changing the speed of the aircraft relative to the surrounding
air. Fitting an AoA gauge does not make your aircraft accelerate any
quicker!
Let's imagine the situation where you are on approach and your airspeed is a little
below the optimum speed (the AoA is higher than desired). Assuming you are
not too low, you lower the nose to increase the speed (and reduce the AoA).
As soon as the nose is lowered, the AoA will decrease and if you have an AoA gauge
that will be indicated immediately. The airspeed, however, does not change
straightaway (the ASI lag!!!) After a while, your airspeed will settle at the
new increased value. (perhaps a kind aerodynamics person can provide us with
a succinct description of what causes the airspeed to increase when the AoA is
reduced).
Moving the stick forward to reduce the AoA is the crucial action. Having moved
the stick, the pilot then has to wait until the speed stabilises before sampling
the ASI again (all gliding instructors will remember giving this demo). If
the speed doesn't have to change by very much (say, < 5 kts) then the pilot doesn't
have to wait very long (certainly less than 20S).
The rational behind the talking ASI is that if the airspeed on approach is not
far from the desired speed, then the pitch/throttle adjustments required to return
to that speed are small and the time lag between making an adjustment and
achieving the desired speed is small. The pilot is "nagged" into maintaining
the correct airspeed through small changes in pitch/power.
By nagging the pilot to maintain a sensible speed, the talking ASI not only protects
against stalling, it helps you obtain the stabilised approach that Mike
Parkin enthused about and is so important when operating out of small fields.
I understand the benefits of flying by AoA and if someone produced a low cost,
reliable, easy to fit and calibrate, AoA instrument that didn't require you to
have your eyes in the cockpit on approach, I would be tempted to have one.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51717#51717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin pownall" <kevpow(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | engine failure due to filters |
I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight engine
failure in the last few days.
Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my
experience exactly.
I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters etc.
When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was nothing
obviously visible to block both the filters.
When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience. It
seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages happen.
I put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.
My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the
interior of the tank in the first few flights.
The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to
fibre glass aeroplanes.
No one has been killed yet . Is it possible to warn all builders now of
this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before
someone is hurt.
Kevin Pownall kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
I don't see the ASI and the AOA as entirely different things, especialy
in a small GA cockpit. The ASI can be calibrated to read angles instead
of speed based on aircraft weight, like the movable outer ring that is
used for calibrating TAS based on temperature. A true AOA independent
of weight is useful only in large transport aircraft where the weight
could vary significantly.
--- Mark Burton wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
>
> graham(at)gflight.f9.co.u wrote:
> >
> > Mike will have a much more valid opinion than me but I believe the
> > sensible way to monitor airspeed is by angle of attack, the
> instrument
> > tells that that your airspeed is going to change, you can correct
> the
> > changed AoA instantly and speed won't change The ASI tells you at
> least
> > 20 seconds after it's changed which means you then have to regain
> > momentum which will take another 20 seconds or more. Another
> advantage
> > that correct AoA is not dependant on weight, so the figure for
> stall,
> > cruise max range etc all remain constant.
> > my 2 cents
> > Graham
> >
>
>
> There is much good information in Graham's message but I feel that
> this last paragraph is misleading. Unless your ASI is particularly
> sluggish, it will indicate changes in airspeed almost instantly (i.e.
> not 20 seconds later). What takes the time is actually changing the
> speed of the aircraft relative to the surrounding air. Fitting an
> AoA gauge does not make your aircraft accelerate any quicker!
>
> Let's imagine the situation where you are on approach and your
> airspeed is a little below the optimum speed (the AoA is higher than
> desired). Assuming you are not too low, you lower the nose to
> increase the speed (and reduce the AoA). As soon as the nose is
> lowered, the AoA will decrease and if you have an AoA gauge that will
> be indicated immediately. The airspeed, however, does not change
> straightaway (the ASI lag!!!) After a while, your airspeed will
> settle at the new increased value. (perhaps a kind aerodynamics
> person can provide us with a succinct description of what causes the
> airspeed to increase when the AoA is reduced).
>
> Moving the stick forward to reduce the AoA is the crucial action.
> Having moved the stick, the pilot then has to wait until the speed
> stabilises before sampling the ASI again (all gliding instructors
> will remember giving this demo). If the speed doesn't have to change
> by very much (say, < 5 kts) then the pilot doesn't have to wait very
> long (certainly less than 20S).
>
> The rational behind the talking ASI is that if the airspeed on
> approach is not far from the desired speed, then the pitch/throttle
> adjustments required to return to that speed are small and the time
> lag between making an adjustment and achieving the desired speed is
> small. The pilot is "nagged" into maintaining the correct airspeed
> through small changes in pitch/power.
>
> By nagging the pilot to maintain a sensible speed, the talking ASI
> not only protects against stalling, it helps you obtain the
> stabilised approach that Mike Parkin enthused about and is so
> important when operating out of small fields.
>
> I understand the benefits of flying by AoA and if someone produced a
> low cost, reliable, easy to fit and calibrate, AoA instrument that
> didn't require you to have your eyes in the cockpit on approach, I
> would be tempted to have one.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51717#51717
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Kevin,
I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a
little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the
right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between
the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing
them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I
believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the
tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No
problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.
Regards
Jeff
RMMM
On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:
> I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight
> engine failure in the last few days.
> -
> Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my
> experience exactly.
> -
> I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters
> etc.- When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there
was
> nothing obviously visible to block both the filters.
> -
> When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience.-
> It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages
> happen.-- I put a concertina filter in and have had no more
problems.
> -
> My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the
> interior of the tank in the first few flights.
> -
> The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to
> fibre glass aeroplanes.
> -
> No one has been killed yet .- Is it possible to warn all builders
now
> of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before
> someone is hurt.
> -
> Kevin Pownall-- kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave_Miller(at)avivacanada.com |
One useful thing about learning to fly in giders, was the constant yelling
from the back seat;
Keep the speed up
Keep the string straight.
I still miss the yaw string, the cheapest and most useful instrument made.
I'm indebted to Carl for his comments on the ball. In what feels like
straight and level flight, mine sits a bit to the left.
My feeling was that the instrument was wrong, or that the view from the
left seat was distorting my perspective, or that I'd just lost the touch
for what is straight and level.
Also to Mike for comments regarding the ailerons, mine are level on the
ground, but seem to adopt a slight droop in cruise.
Some things to look at and fix on C-FBZI
Dave A061
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
The usual cause of stall on the approach - or anywhere I suppose, is the
application of up elevator when pilot perception is that of being too low.
The correct action should surely be emphasised again and again - elevator
for change of speed and throttle for height.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willie.harrison(at)tinyonline.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
Surely it depends on how much G you are pulling (or not)??
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY
>-- Original Message --
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)yahoo.com>
>Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 07:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls & spins
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I don't see the ASI and the AOA as entirely different things, especialy
>in a small GA cockpit. The ASI can be calibrated to read angles instead
>of speed based on aircraft weight, like the movable outer ring that is
>used for calibrating TAS based on temperature. A true AOA independent
>of weight is useful only in large transport aircraft where the weight
>could vary significantly.
>
>
>--- Mark Burton wrote:
>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>>
>> graham(at)gflight.f9.co.u wrote:
>> >
>> > Mike will have a much more valid opinion than me but I believe the
>> > sensible way to monitor airspeed is by angle of attack, the
>> instrument
>> > tells that that your airspeed is going to change, you can correct
>> the
>> > changed AoA instantly and speed won't change The ASI tells you at
>> least
>> > 20 seconds after it's changed which means you then have to regain
>> > momentum which will take another 20 seconds or more. Another
>> advantage
>> > that correct AoA is not dependant on weight, so the figure for
>> stall,
>> > cruise max range etc all remain constant.
>> > my 2 cents
>> > Graham
>> >
>>
>>
>> There is much good information in Graham's message but I feel that
>> this last paragraph is misleading. Unless your ASI is particularly
>> sluggish, it will indicate changes in airspeed almost instantly (i.e.
>> not 20 seconds later). What takes the time is actually changing the
>> speed of the aircraft relative to the surrounding air. Fitting an
>> AoA gauge does not make your aircraft accelerate any quicker!
>>
>> Let's imagine the situation where you are on approach and your
>> airspeed is a little below the optimum speed (the AoA is higher than
>> desired). Assuming you are not too low, you lower the nose to
>> increase the speed (and reduce the AoA). As soon as the nose is
>> lowered, the AoA will decrease and if you have an AoA gauge that will
>> be indicated immediately. The airspeed, however, does not change
>> straightaway (the ASI lag!!!) After a while, your airspeed will
>> settle at the new increased value. (perhaps a kind aerodynamics
>> person can provide us with a succinct description of what causes the
>> airspeed to increase when the AoA is reduced).
>>
>> Moving the stick forward to reduce the AoA is the crucial action.
>> Having moved the stick, the pilot then has to wait until the speed
>> stabilises before sampling the ASI again (all gliding instructors
>> will remember giving this demo). If the speed doesn't have to change
>> by very much (say, < 5 kts) then the pilot doesn't have to wait very
>> long (certainly less than 20S).
>>
>> The rational behind the talking ASI is that if the airspeed on
>> approach is not far from the desired speed, then the pitch/throttle
>> adjustments required to return to that speed are small and the time
>> lag between making an adjustment and achieving the desired speed is
>> small. The pilot is "nagged" into maintaining the correct airspeed
>> through small changes in pitch/power.
>>
>> By nagging the pilot to maintain a sensible speed, the talking ASI
>> not only protects against stalling, it helps you obtain the
>> stabilised approach that Mike Parkin enthused about and is so
>> important when operating out of small fields.
>>
>> I understand the benefits of flying by AoA and if someone produced a
>> low cost, reliable, easy to fit and calibrate, AoA instrument that
>> didn't require you to have your eyes in the cockpit on approach, I
>> would be tempted to have one.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51717#51717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Whiteley <ksw(at)kenwhit.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
In message <001a01c6b639$f55ef530$e0513bcb@HomeWS1>, kevin pownall
writes
>I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight engine
>failure in the last few days.
>
>Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my experience
>exactly.
>
>I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters etc. When
>after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was nothing obviously
>visible to block both the filters.
>
>When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience. It
>seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages happen. I
>put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.
>
>My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the
>interior of the tank in the first few flights.
>
>The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to fibre
>glass aeroplanes.
>
>No one has been killed yet . Is it possible to warn all builders now of this
>possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before someone is
>hurt.
>
>Kevin Pownall kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
I believe you are right. I think the problem is related to the
polyethylene fuel tank. It is possible that the fuel can extract waxy
material from the polyethylene tank and more particularly any remaining
polyethylene swarf from the cutting of the access holes. The waxy
material could then coat the nylon filter elements. This series of
events is more likely to occur when the aircraft experiences temperature
cycles, hot testing and then cooling down in the hangar overnight. I
have mentioned this to Europa, but the reply has been that following the
Europa procedures this does not normally occur. All later tanks are
fluorine treated and this should reduce the extraction tendency.
However, there is not an easy solution. The present filters are easy to
inspect and relatively easy to clean. There is nowhere to put a more
conventional filter where it is realistically easy to clean and inspect.
The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.
The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I
am no longer building a Europa, but if I were, I had been persuaded to
stay with the existing design, but I would clean the filters frequently
in the early stages. I would also fit a fuel pressure gauge and be
prepared to act quickly to change to the other tank outlet if the fuel
pressure dropped.
Ken Whiteley
Polyethylene Consultancy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <n914va(at)bvunet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
This does not really need to be said because we all know it, but I am
> going to say it anyway.
>
> I am now involved in my bi-annual review. As in all my bi-annuals and
> pilot training, my CFI and I go out and do slooow flight, asi just
over
> stall speed. The CFI watches closely that I do not bank at more than
10
> or 15 degrees and that I keep the ball centered. Those are the
> crucial factors at that speed. While landing the aircraft, the CFI
> demands a stabilized approach flown at the air speeds recommended for
> the aircraft. If you are diving at the field or dragging the airplane
in
> on final, you have not flown a stabilized approach. Your speed should
> not near stall speed until you are in the flare and very close to the
> ground. Most low wing airplanes will float quite a ways in ground
effect
> if your approach is too fast, but better that then being too slow at
> altitude, ( I consider that to be over 10' AGL). If I can't make a
> stabilized approach, I will go around and try it again and have done
so
> on many occasions when dealing with gusty cross winds. I consider a
> "GO-Around" to be a successful missed landing, whereas a missed
landing
> is not in any way successful. I enjoy practicing emergency landings
and
> usually try to come in high and slip to the field with crossed
controls,
> but am very careful to maintain airspeed in this attitude. But a
> stabilized approach is even more of a difficult skill to perform every
> time and I practice a lot.
>
> Vaughn Teegarden
> N914VA not finished, but backing up steadily
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
> The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.
> The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I
Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems
without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
Chris Beck writes:
>>All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems to
point to
>>a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the design or
due to
>>building errors?Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with the
wing
Sorry Chris,
Your comments are unfortunately uninformed.
Keeping aside our personal feelings of loss for an active member of this
online community, the subject
aircraft was observed by many to be slow in the pattern and to have
overshot the base to final turn.
This is a classic scenario for a cross controlled spin entry, which is
exactly what happened, according
to multiple pilot witnesses. I can not say I saw it happen at the
approach end of 27, since I was
having breakfast midfield along 36 when it happened, but word travels
fast.
By no means is this phenomena exclusive to Europas as you imply. I
guarantee you that a quick scan
of the NTSB database will reveal dozens of C140/150/152 accidents of
identical origin. If Europas were
the only a/c to drop a wing in a cross controlled stall, why then does
every text on flying devote
considerable space to this scenario?
---------
Ron,
why redesign the wing, adding a cuff when the factory makes a clear simple
solution in adding a stall strip?
Ivan was not at Osh this year, but was according to the Liberty guys, in
Africa ferry an a/c.
Other Osh tidbit: John Hurst is now working for Phil Lockwood in Sebring
Ira N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rman <topglock(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
My own experience is much like Jeff's. I Used 1.5" metal filters, from
the auto parts store for first flight, and pitched them at one hour.
Replaced them with same type and pitched them at 25 hours, replacing
with same and tossing at 50 hours. At 150 hours, I installed the Europa
filters. Checked them at recent annual (200 hours) and they were fine.
Cleaned them out and reinstalled. No problems at all.
I did note some restriction in the first two sets of auto filters,
though not enough to cause any problems. After that, they are pretty
much clean, upon regular 50 hour inspections...
Jeff - Baby Blue
200 hours
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Kevin,
> I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a
> little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the
> right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between
> the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing
> them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I
> believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the
> tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No
> problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.
> Regards
> Jeff
> RMMM
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:
>
> I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight
> engine failure in the last few days.
>
> Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my
> experience exactly.
>
> I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the
> filters etc. When after the engine failure I inspected the
> filters there was nothing obviously visible to block both the
> filters.
>
> When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar
> experience. It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that
> the blockages happen. I put a concertina filter in and have had
> no more problems.
>
> My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off
> the interior of the tank in the first few flights.
>
> The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just
> to fibre glass aeroplanes.
>
> No one has been killed yet . Is it possible to warn all builders
> now of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters
> before someone is hurt.
>
> Kevin Pownall kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
> This does not really need to be said because we all know it, but I am
>> going to say it anyway.
We all know it yes, and still it can't be said too many times.
Maybe we then remember when everything possible at once tries to distract
us from flying the plane.
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
paddyclarke(at)lineone.ne wrote:
> Hi All,
> and, to answer Marks point, has a good aural warning. Just
> remember to ignore the American lady when she says 'Angle, Angle,
> PUSH !' and you're in the flare !!
>
Yes, but it still requires you to look inside the cockpit while flying the approach
to see the AoA display. Once you get to the point of flaring you don't need
any instruments at all.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51853#51853
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Can't say I have had any problem with the Andair gascolator. It is mounted
in the fuselage opening in front and next to the new steel springs. Easy to
access and the open position may help to cool the fuel.
Have never noticed tank residue. My trigear is no. 392.
Karl
>From: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine failure due to filters
>Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:44:12 +0300
>
>
>>The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax. The
>>larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I
>
>Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems
>without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?
>
>--
>Kind Regards,
>
>Jos Okhuijsen
>
>workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
>http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
>mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
>closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
>fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
>wings.
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Can't say I have had any problem with the Flo-ezy filter (at least I think
that's how it's mis-spelt!),
which is similar to the automotive type but has a 100 micron screen
(although it started with a 25 micron screen) and "proper" AN fuel line
fittings, which makes removal easy.
The surface area is 20 sq.ins.
Occasional minor smudges of 'fuel fungi' are picked up, but nothing else
after 300 hours.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 7:44 PM
> Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems
> without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Smith <graeme(at)gcsmith.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Yes, I have an Andair mini-gascolator and suffered a partial power loss
requiring a forced landing (fortunately overhead the airfield) during
the 2 hr endurance flight which is part of the PFA flight test program.
This was after about 3.5 hrs total flight time. The mesh on the
gascolator did not appear to be totally clogged but had a kind of fine
gunk covering about half the area.
My fuel tank is one of the second design made around 1997. I never found
out what the gunk was, whether it came from the lining of the tank or
was introduced with the fuel.
The hope in replacing the Europa filters with the mini-gascolator was
that the gascolator bowl would be easily removable and so the filter
could be regularly inspected and cleaned, however this has proved not to
be the case due to the fact that the bowl seems to jam on during use,
and with the confined mounting space in the Europa, removing the bowl is
incredibly difficult, and sometimes impossible. On the day of the engine
failure, I was instructed by the test pilot (John Brownlow) to check the
fuel filters. Since I was unable to get the bowl off to check the
filter, I drained the contents of the gascolator into a sight glass and
checked that there was no water or sediment. It was all clear, but I
couldn't see that the filter was already clogged. I don't see the
gascolator as a improvement, although I don't like the Europa filters
either.
Fortunately, I have not had the same problem since, I am more rigorous
about filtering the fuel during refuelling, and cleaning the gascolator
filter at each refuelling despite the incredible hassle in trying to get
the ****ing thing off.
Graeme Smith
No 26
Jos Okhuijsen wrote:
>
>> The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.
>> The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I
>
> Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems
> without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?
>
> --Kind Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
>
> workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
> http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
> mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
> closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and
> primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling
> the fuse and wings.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Belinda Glover" <belinda(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Upside down Europa |
Have you seen this AAIB report on the Europa dual fatality Kemble
accident now assumed to have been spin entry during climb out?
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/Europa%20XL,%20N8027U%202-06.pdf
Regards
Gary McKirdy
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Upside down Europa
I regularly practice stalling but up to now have generally only done
so when fairly straight and level. With all the discussion about
stalling in the turn, I thought I would have a go yesterday. Climbed to
about 5000ft. and tried stalling in various configurations. Flaps down I
couldn't really get the aircraft to drop a wing although I didn't put in
a lot of rudder. However, stalling clean with the aircraft balanced and
about 20/30 degrees of bank, the wing dropped violently and the rotation
continued until I very rapidly found myself completely inverted.
Cushions, maps etc. all over the place. The aircraft pulled out without
any problem (not quite sure which way as I was somewhat disoriented) but
I lost somewhere over 500 foot in the process.
A salutary lesson and will certainly make me think hard about
maintaining airspeed and being careful in turns nearer to the ground.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Misaligned turn and slip |
Re the turn and slip indicator, the fix is relatively simple provided
you can access the back of the instrument panel and reposition the
instrument.
The original Europa panels didnt have a removable front and are nigh on
impossible to get at without removing the entire instrument panel - a
nightmare of a job.
Its a good idea to ensure the panel mounting screw holes for the T&S are
elongated so that the instrument can be rotated within the main panel.
That way the ball can be centered without too much fuss.
We lined our instrument panel squarely (or so we thought) within the
cockpit but it was clear once we started flying that the panel didnt
line up with the wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Miller(at)avivacanada.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Stalls & spins
One useful thing about learning to fly in giders, was the constant
yelling from the back seat;
Keep the speed up
Keep the string straight.
I still miss the yaw string, the cheapest and most useful instrument
made.
I'm indebted to Carl for his comments on the ball. In what feels like
straight and level flight, mine sits a bit to the left.
My feeling was that the instrument was wrong, or that the view from
the left seat was distorting my perspective, or that I'd just lost the
touch for what is straight and level.
Also to Mike for comments regarding the ailerons, mine are level on
the ground, but seem to adopt a slight droop in cruise.
Some things to look at and fix on C-FBZI
Dave A061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
I would suggest that the ASI should only be part of the equation. You need
to know the correct attitude (with reference to the horizon) that gives a
safe approach speed. If you fly with reference to the ASI alone you end up
chasing the airspeed and worse still have your eyeball inside the cockpit
instead of keeping an eye on the attitude and where you are heading.
On my first ever solo (in a glider) the ASI failed completely and I had to
fly the circuit and land without any speed reference whatsoever. Fortunately
I was taught to fly by attitude and coped with what would have otherwise
been a nasty situation.
If your airspeed indicator were to fail would you know what attitude to fly
to land safely. If you dont recognise what attitude gives a safe flying
speed (flaps up and flaps down) would you be able to cope with such an
emergency.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:13 PM
>
>
> I don't see the ASI and the AOA as entirely different things, especialy
> in a small GA cockpit. The ASI can be calibrated to read angles instead
> of speed based on aircraft weight, like the movable outer ring that is
> used for calibrating TAS based on temperature. A true AOA independent
> of weight is useful only in large transport aircraft where the weight
> could vary significantly.
>
>
> --- Mark Burton wrote:
>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>>
>> graham(at)gflight.f9.co.u wrote:
>> >
>> > Mike will have a much more valid opinion than me but I believe the
>> > sensible way to monitor airspeed is by angle of attack, the
>> instrument
>> > tells that that your airspeed is going to change, you can correct
>> the
>> > changed AoA instantly and speed won't change The ASI tells you at
>> least
>> > 20 seconds after it's changed which means you then have to regain
>> > momentum which will take another 20 seconds or more. Another
>> advantage
>> > that correct AoA is not dependant on weight, so the figure for
>> stall,
>> > cruise max range etc all remain constant.
>> > my 2 cents
>> > Graham
>> >
>>
>>
>> There is much good information in Graham's message but I feel that
>> this last paragraph is misleading. Unless your ASI is particularly
>> sluggish, it will indicate changes in airspeed almost instantly (i.e.
>> not 20 seconds later). What takes the time is actually changing the
>> speed of the aircraft relative to the surrounding air. Fitting an
>> AoA gauge does not make your aircraft accelerate any quicker!
>>
>> Let's imagine the situation where you are on approach and your
>> airspeed is a little below the optimum speed (the AoA is higher than
>> desired). Assuming you are not too low, you lower the nose to
>> increase the speed (and reduce the AoA). As soon as the nose is
>> lowered, the AoA will decrease and if you have an AoA gauge that will
>> be indicated immediately. The airspeed, however, does not change
>> straightaway (the ASI lag!!!) After a while, your airspeed will
>> settle at the new increased value. (perhaps a kind aerodynamics
>> person can provide us with a succinct description of what causes the
>> airspeed to increase when the AoA is reduced).
>>
>> Moving the stick forward to reduce the AoA is the crucial action.
>> Having moved the stick, the pilot then has to wait until the speed
>> stabilises before sampling the ASI again (all gliding instructors
>> will remember giving this demo). If the speed doesn't have to change
>> by very much (say, < 5 kts) then the pilot doesn't have to wait very
>> long (certainly less than 20S).
>>
>> The rational behind the talking ASI is that if the airspeed on
>> approach is not far from the desired speed, then the pitch/throttle
>> adjustments required to return to that speed are small and the time
>> lag between making an adjustment and achieving the desired speed is
>> small. The pilot is "nagged" into maintaining the correct airspeed
>> through small changes in pitch/power.
>>
>> By nagging the pilot to maintain a sensible speed, the talking ASI
>> not only protects against stalling, it helps you obtain the
>> stabilised approach that Mike Parkin enthused about and is so
>> important when operating out of small fields.
>>
>> I understand the benefits of flying by AoA and if someone produced a
>> low cost, reliable, easy to fit and calibrate, AoA instrument that
>> didn't require you to have your eyes in the cockpit on approach, I
>> would be tempted to have one.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51717#51717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevpond(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
The correct action Patrick is to fly the aircraft to the published numbers!
Trev Pond
Kit 598
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Belinda Glover" <belinda(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | NSI Subaru owners please read. |
Our recently rebuilt Europa G-BWCV is again in pieces after we put only
30 more flying hrs on this engine to add to the 50hrs it had done in
the hands of the previous owner.
We had just received the new full permit to fly when recently, heading
for Lundy Island just South of Bristol Docks , the cockpit filled with
smoke as if a smoke bomb had gone off and the engine stopped! I could
not discern whether the smoke was electrical in origin but assumed as
the engine had stopped it had to be.
The cause and subsequent sequence of events has now been established.
Alternator bearing seizure initiated dual rubber v-belt slip at the
crankshaft pulley.
In 2-3 seconds 50 cruise hp turned both rubber belts into smoke and
vulcanised them instead of driving the now freewheeling prop (no
flywheel effect to snap belts).
The alternator was switched off immediately but to no benefit since its
load was not the issue.
So instead of the crankshaft pulley driving the alternator, the
alternator now seized was now driving the engine to a stop! A relatively
minor accessory failure had initiated a cascade of events equivalent or
even worse than a major engine failure.
Ofcourse this should not happen should it?
Little did I know I had become an involuntary test pilot!!!!!!!with an
observer!!!!!
The idea of a re-start attempt was not surprisingly quickly rejected.
However, as I now know it would obviously have been a futile exercise,
the engine stopped from 50hp running so the starter did not have a
chance.
Two other aspects of this incident made for an extremely high workload.
1. I had to switch off all electrics to prevent any further risk of
smoke (if only to be able to see out for a forced landing) or worse
still fire. This meant I lost the electric trim.
This may appear a small thing but believe me, this meant the constant
use of one hand flying the stick without feel and as a consequence one
eye glued to the ASI. A workload I did not need at this time. Mechanical
trim would have helped enormously.
Try your practice forced landings in cruise trim to see what I mean. "It
could be you."
2. The other aspect which is a little more difficult to practice was the
free wheeling prop. All practice forced landings to date had been with
the engine at idle as is usual. In this condition increasing speed, by
diving, increases engine rpm so the sprag clutch is effectively
connecting engine and propeller like any other engine.
When the engine stopped, I was quickly aware of an abnormally high rate
of descent. The prop ran away like a wind generator in hurricane, the
feel of the stick was abnormal due to the out of trim load and I think
also the braking effect on the airflow over the tail.of the prop now in
drag parachute mode.
The location was far from ideal for a forced landing and with the high
rate of descent meaning short time for descent we could easily have come
off far worse especially since the area was well populated with power
lines of different sizes forcing a late rejection of the primary field
selection.
Having taken the diagonal in anticipation of the limited field size We
hit the far hedge in a 290 meter 30+ Celcius almost max gross with wind
light and variable as the sea breeze was backing up the Severn valley.
The near hedge incidentally was a 6 foot steep bank from a wide drainage
canal. This, coupled with the unusual deck angle in the glide which only
got worse of course when I put the coupled gear and flap down on the
Mono, requiring an unusually long duration flare as if landing up hill,
put our aiming point considerably before the actual touch down point so
we were going to hit the hedge. The last trick I had up my sleeve from
my cross country gliding days was to drop the gear in order to minimise
the ground roll. This in retrospect, although it did no such thing,
probably stopped us flipping upside down. I never considered applying
the brake but the wheel just keeps turning judging by our grass
marks.Which fortunately I was able to pace out having vacated the
aircraft.
I am giving a talk to Gloucester strut about the Europa rebuild and now
have a new chapter.
It is in the Aeros flying club building next Tuesday at 07.30 pm and
would welcome anyone especially Subaru owners to come along.
I still like the Subaru engine and would be happy to fly it again once
this single point failure has been addressed. If the Europa flies again
it will be called hedgehog!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <n9zes(at)verizon.net> |
Actually, Ira, I didn't make the quoted comment you reference to. That
was someone else.
I only made reference to the stalling habits of 152's that I've flown.
Chris
irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu wrote:
>
> Chris Beck writes:
>
> >>All the recent correspondence following the tragedy at Oshkosh seems
> to point to
> >>a basic instability with the Europa. Is this inherent in the design
> or due to
> >>building errors?Trimming ailerons to achieve smooth integration with
> the wing
>
>
> Sorry Chris,
>
> Your comments are unfortunately uninformed.
>
> Keeping aside our personal feelings of loss for an active member of
> this online community, the subject
> aircraft was observed by many to be slow in the pattern and to have
> overshot the base to final turn.
> This is a classic scenario for a cross controlled spin entry, which is
> exactly what happened, according
> to multiple pilot witnesses. I can not say I saw it happen at the
> approach end of 27, since I was
> having breakfast midfield along 36 when it happened, but word travels
> fast.
>
> By no means is this phenomena exclusive to Europas as you imply. I
> guarantee you that a quick scan
> of the NTSB database will reveal dozens of C140/150/152 accidents of
> identical origin. If Europas were
> the only a/c to drop a wing in a cross controlled stall, why then does
> every text on flying devote
> considerable space to this scenario?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Butcher" <europa(at)triton.net> |
EUROPA AIRCRAFT FLY-IN
When: Saturday, Aug 26, 2006.
Where: Almena Airport (2C5 - Paw Paw, MI - 12 miles SW of Kalamazoo,
MI). Coordinates 42deg 15.17'N, 085 deg 51.10'W. Almena is a Day VFR
2100 ft grass strip.
Food: Barbecue lunch on Saturday. Other meals available at adjacent golf
course or in town.
Activities: Experience and talk Europas!! Other possibilities include:
Tour Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum (AirZoo)
Winery Tours
Accommodations: If you'd like to arrive on Friday and/or stay through
Sunday, you may pitch a tent at the airport. Showers are available at
adjacent golf course. Motels are nearby (5 mi).
Weather: Average High 82, Average Low 59
More Information: Jim & Heather Butcher, europa(at)triton.net,
269-375-5923, Cell - 269-599-0122
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Anyone have fuel lines inside cockpit by pilot? |
My return line runs along the co-pilot's side of the center console. It
come straight down from the firewall from a 90 degree bulkhead fitting. It
goes straight to the floor and enters the theigh support and goes under the
seat where the return flowscan is mounted then goes back to the tank. The
line is securely attached at all positions and is flush to the corner
interface of the floor and console side. There is 9 hours on the aircraft
now. I probably could make a fiberglass fairing to cover it over but it is
fairly un-obtrusive as positioned now.
Steve
A143 (40SH)
Mesa , AZ
Now flying and tweaking
Steve Hagar
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
> [Original Message]
> From: <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> To:
> Date: 8/1/2006 11:35:21 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Anyone have fuel lines inside cockpit by pilot?
>
>
> I have a Monowheel with Airbrake lever installed. Both makes for less
> options when running fuel lines to the engine.
>
> My plan is to run fuel lines through some PVC plastic conduit on the port
> side of the tunnel, punch into the cockpit through the pilot right side
> thigh support on the fuse floor, sneak under the airbrake torque tube /
> horn.
>
> I will transition just about under the Airbrake torque tube from supplied
> fuel hose to aeroquip stainless steel braided fuel hose the same diameter.
> The transition will happen at 2 flowscan transducers.
>
> Now punch through the left cockpit module flange bout 4 inches below the
> roof into the engine compartment, between the footwell side and the
> vertical undercarriage mounting frame tube.
>
>
> Anyone done similar? Are you flying?
>
> How did you mount hoses?
>
> Did you cover hoses with anything?
>
> What are the details of how you made firewall penetration?
>
> Any pictures?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cliff and Betty Shaw remembrance |
Neville this is a great idea.
I was fortunate enough to know Cliff and Betty on a personal level
through attendance at OSH. I have been staying with the same
family in the OSH area for the last several years. When Cliff wrote
that he was planning an OSH trip in 2004 I gave him the name
of the people I stay with. The family is wonderful and all the guest
become part of the family and each year a special part of the trip
is seeing all our friends that share the same house. Cliff and Betty
became part of the OSH family of friends so it was a great shock
to loose them.
The folks that live in OSH, Cindy and Mark, invited Cliff and Betty's
sons to stay with them for the time they were in OSH making final
arrangements. Cindy asked about the idea of a moment of silence and
they like the idea. According to the Galaxy Hobby web site
http://www.galaxyhobby.com/
there will be a service on August 16th, but the time is not known at
this time.
If I could add a suggestion. Perhaps at the end of the silence we could
send a "Farewell Cliff and Betty" message on the forum.
John Eckel
----- -----
From: NevEyre(at)aol.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cliff and Betty Shaw remembrance
Hi All,
I sent a private email to Bob Jacobsen, for him to run this idea past
the Shaw family.....
During the Funeral ceremony, at a pre-determined time [ Zulu, so we
all are aware of the same moment in time] there is a one minute silence,
so we can all stop whatever we are doing, and and think of the passing
of Cliff and Betty.........
If this is not what the Family want, we could do something on our own,
perhaps at the P.F.A. Rally, at the end of the Europa Club AGM, we could
have a minutes silence, again, if it was set at a specific time,all the
Europa community, wherever in the world they might be, could stop for
that same minute......
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
I went through all the routines and thought I had it licked. Pressure
wash, gas flush, soap and water. Inspection through the hole I cut for the
fuel level transducer. Then using both pumps to run volumes of gas through
the system. I thought I had it pristine. Inspecting the filters had them
"looking good" However comparing a "clogged" filter against a new one only
revealed only a higher degree of opaquenees? Hence my assumption that what
is clogging the filter is the same color as the white element. I would
have been better off not being able to see anything getting a false sence
of security. So my fix is to get a disposable type filter at least 4 times
larger than the supplied units and change them regularly in early flying.
Making sure each one is right before each pump rather than at the outlet of
each side of the tank.
Steve
A143 N40SH
Flying and fixin'
Steve Hagar
hagargs(at)earthlink.net
> [Original Message]
> From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/2/2006 8:36:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine failure due to filters
>
> Kevin,
> I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a
> little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the
> right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between
> the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing
> them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I
> believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the
> tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No
> problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.
> Regards
> Jeff
> RMMM
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:
>
> > I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight
> > engine failure in the last few days.
> >
> > Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my
> > experience exactly.
> >
> > I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters
> > etc. When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was
> > nothing obviously visible to block both the filters.
> >
> > When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience.
> > It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages
> > happen. I put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.
> >
> > My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the
> > interior of the tank in the first few flights.
> >
> > The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to
> > fibre glass aeroplanes.
> >
> > No one has been killed yet . Is it possible to warn all builders now
> > of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before
> > someone is hurt.
> >
> > Kevin Pownall kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schultz" <Rschultz5(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
I am looking for ideas on a recurring engine problem that caused me 3
precautionary landings on the way from Oshkosh last weekend. The typical
setting was after an hour to hour and a half of cruise flight time the
engine would drop RPM and feel like it was ready to quit. Moving the
throttle forward made it worse and pulling it back made it better. The first
hint of a problem was on landing at Green Bay after coming up from Texas.
The engine ran at reduced power as soon as I came off the throttle to start
the decent for landing from 6500 feet. The initial thought was the problem
came from the longer idle coming down and fouling the plugs. A change of the
plugs and the engine ran on the ground for 20 minutes going in to and out of
full turbo power without a hitch. The plane was then flown for an hour to
Oshkosh and for an additional hour during the week both at low level (2500')
the return trip started out great and at 6500' and about an hour in to the
flight again the engine lost power. I tried the throttle settings and again
moving up was bad down was good. I tried both fuel pumps on and each alone,
I tried both sets of plugs alone and together with no change in the engine
response at cruise range. Another landing and calls to Lockwood for advice.
They had me inspect the filters with were just replaced prior to the trip
and clean, Next I opened the fuel pressure regulator to check for dirt,
nothing clean as the day it was built. I next check the carbs to see of they
were free floating and they were no lead build up. I then was told to report
the needle valve richer to see if that would help. Run up on the ground for
20 minutes showed no signs of problems. Next morning (Sunday) run up on the
ground looked good. Climbed up to 6500 over the airport and hung out doing
circles for about half an hour using the full range of throttle settings.
After the half hour set 5000 RPM and 30 inches and off I went. 30 minutes
latter the same old problem was back. I again made a precautionary landing
in Iowa. Having had all the fun I cold have and no new ideas the plan was
left to think about its behavior and drove home. I am taking my trailer up
to embarrass the plane in from of its new friends and pull the wings and
bring it back to Houston this weekend. Dose anyone have a thought on why
this is happening after a hour or more at cruise power? Flight up was 12
hours with no problems and it just came on very sudden. I have been burning
a combination of avgas and mogas with the trip up being all avgas. Fuel
pumps were tested the week before the flight @ 20 gallons an hour for each
pump.
Comments anyone with a 914 having similar problems?
Aircraft has 95 hours. 914 with an intercooler, AirMaster prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
I agree entirely. In fact I teach my primary students how to approach
and land with all instruments covered, including airspeed and
altimeter. If you know the pitch + power combination for every flight
configuration, you don't need much else. However, the pitch+power
combination depends on aircraft weight and load factor. If you use
AOA+power, it would be independent of weight and load factor. This is
why some people prefer AOA. My point was that rarely do we have large
variations in load factor or weight to make this a highly useful
instrument. I would be interested to know if there are any studies that
show than an AOA makes that much difference in stall-spin accidents. In
my observation flying with many pilots, new and old, by the time
someone gets into a dangerously slow airspeed and a screwed up
approach, they are rarely able to pay attention to the flight
instruments or even hear the stall horn. What saves them is their basic
airmanship to recognize the unusual attitude and recover it to a
familiar pitch + power configuration. I doubt that yet another
instrument on the panel is going to be of much help to those who get
that far into the danger zone.
--- Carl Pattinson wrote:
>
>
> I would suggest that the ASI should only be part of the equation. You
> need
> to know the correct attitude (with reference to the horizon) that
> gives a
> safe approach speed. If you fly with reference to the ASI alone you
> end up
> chasing the airspeed and worse still have your eyeball inside the
> cockpit
> instead of keeping an eye on the attitude and where you are heading.
>
> On my first ever solo (in a glider) the ASI failed completely and I
> had to
> fly the circuit and land without any speed reference whatsoever.
> Fortunately
> I was taught to fly by attitude and coped with what would have
> otherwise
> been a nasty situation.
>
> If your airspeed indicator were to fail would you know what attitude
> to fly
> to land safely. If you dont recognise what attitude gives a safe
> flying
> speed (flaps up and flaps down) would you be able to cope with such
> an
> emergency.
>
>
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.sarangan.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Hello Richard
"Comments anyone with a 914 having similar problems"
I am not yet flying my 914, but have a pretty good in site.
Do you have a Differential pressure gauge? Was it less than 2 pounds?
If you don't have one, why not?
Was your EGT high? Running out of gas will create a lean mixture and show
high on EGT.
What fuel schematic you using? Parallel or series with bypass?
What type of filters you using and where are they placed? If Parallel do
you have a filter at the inlet of each pump? If series with bypass is 1
filter on inlet of pump 1 and the other at the inlet of checkvalve where
it can only supply pump 2.
It sounds like you are running out of gas. The very first think to check
is make sure the vent on your fuel tank is allowing air to get into tank.
If air can't get into tank, after a while fuel will not be able to get
out.
See:
http://www.sarangan.org/europa_forum/2005-10/index.html
Search: Rob Neils Ron
Do you have any gasculators? If so is it a Mini Andair? Did you clean the
gasculator filters?
Have you ever run for any reason with no filter going to the fuel pumps?
There are filter socks in the inlet of the pumps that could be clogged.
Very careful inspect all the vacuum/pressure hoses on the 914, especial to
one supplying the diaphragm of the fuel pressure regulator, and the hoses
going from airbox to solenoid valve, and from the solenoid valve to the
float bowls of the carbs. A crack, leak or restriction will do no good for
proper running. These are critical on a 914.
Check for kinked or restricting hoses from outlet of tank all the way to
engine.
Did you try reserve? I heard that 1 guy in England had animal hair sneak
past the snake catcher filter on tank outlet, and became a sort of spider
web that collected debris and clogged outlet, so could be outlet of tank
clogged.
You mention you saw 20GPH on each pump. I suspect the test you did was
useless. Read on Rotax service manual how to test flow of pumps. You want
to make sure not only the pump has an OK flow rate, but bottom line is you
need to be able to persuade the fuel pressure regulator to overcome 115%
airbox pressure, that takes flow and pressure. Worst case is at altitude
where pumps need to make more pressure over ambient to net 2 to 5 pounds
over airbox pressure.
I recent posted how to obtain manuals and how to update them.
Good Luck.
Let us know resolve.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Glauser" <dglauser(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spin |
When I was being examined for my PPL, the examiner decided I had my
head in the cockpit too much. He covered the entire panel with the
largest handkerchief I'd ever seen, and I flew the remaining hour with
no instruments at all. Certainly makes you look outside!
dg
On 8/2/06, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> I agree entirely. In fact I teach my primary students how to approach
> and land with all instruments covered, including airspeed and
> altimeter. If you know the pitch + power combination for every flight
> configuration, you don't need much else. However, the pitch+power
> combination depends on aircraft weight and load factor. If you use
> AOA+power, it would be independent of weight and load factor. This is
> why some people prefer AOA. My point was that rarely do we have large
> variations in load factor or weight to make this a highly useful
> instrument. I would be interested to know if there are any studies that
> show than an AOA makes that much difference in stall-spin accidents. In
> my observation flying with many pilots, new and old, by the time
> someone gets into a dangerously slow airspeed and a screwed up
> approach, they are rarely able to pay attention to the flight
> instruments or even hear the stall horn. What saves them is their basic
> airmanship to recognize the unusual attitude and recover it to a
> familiar pitch + power configuration. I doubt that yet another
> instrument on the panel is going to be of much help to those who get
> that far into the danger zone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Hi! Richard
I don't know about 914's.yet but have you thought about Ice possibility
? You didn't mention about use of carb heat on decent?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schultz
Sent: 03 August 2006 03:54
I am looking for ideas on a recurring engine problem that caused me 3
precautionary landings on the way from Oshkosh last weekend. The typical
setting was after an hour to hour and a half of cruise flight time the
engine would drop RPM and feel like it was ready to quit. Moving the
throttle forward made it worse and pulling it back made it better. The
first hint of a problem was on landing at Green Bay after coming up from
Texas. The engine ran at reduced power as soon as I came off the
throttle to start the decent for landing from 6500 feet. The initial
thought was the problem came from the longer idle coming down and
fouling the plugs. A change of the plugs and the engine ran on the
ground for 20 minutes going in to and out of full turbo power without a
hitch. The plane was then flown for an hour to Oshkosh and for an
additional hour during the week both at low level (2500') the return
trip started out great and at 6500' and about an hour in to the flight
again the engine lost power. I tried the throttle settings and again
moving up was bad down was good. I tried both fuel pumps on and each
alone, I tried both sets of plugs alone and together with no change in
the engine response at cruise range. Another landing and calls to
Lockwood for advice. They had me inspect the filters with were just
replaced prior to the trip and clean, Next I opened the fuel pressure
regulator to check for dirt, nothing clean as the day it was built. I
next check the carbs to see of they were free floating and they were no
lead build up. I then was told to report the needle valve richer to see
if that would help. Run up on the ground for 20 minutes showed no signs
of problems. Next morning (Sunday) run up on the ground looked good.
Climbed up to 6500 over the airport and hung out doing circles for about
half an hour using the full range of throttle settings. After the half
hour set 5000 RPM and 30 inches and off I went. 30 minutes latter the
same old problem was back. I again made a precautionary landing in Iowa.
Having had all the fun I cold have and no new ideas the plan was left to
think about its behavior and drove home. I am taking my trailer up to
embarrass the plane in from of its new friends and pull the wings and
bring it back to Houston this weekend. Dose anyone have a thought on why
this is happening after a hour or more at cruise power? Flight up was 12
hours with no problems and it just came on very sudden. I have been
burning a combination of avgas and mogas with the trip up being all
avgas. Fuel pumps were tested the week before the flight @ 20 gallons an
hour for each pump.
Comments anyone with a 914 having similar problems?
Aircraft has 95 hours. 914 with an intercooler, AirMaster prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | NSI Subaru owners please read. |
Hi! If I recall correctly the trim is supposed to be wired direct and so
a separate circuit to the main electrical system for just such an event
as you describe? Mine is as also is the electric clock since I remove
the fuse whenever parked up for a long period to conserve battery power.
Don't know if a Subaru installation is different but can't see why it
needs to be?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Grounded for repair too!)
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Belinda
Glover
Sent: 02 August 2006 23:41
Our recently rebuilt Europa G-BWCV is again in pieces after we put only
30 more flying hrs on this engine to add to the 50hrs it had done in
the hands of the previous owner.
We had just received the new full permit to fly when recently, heading
for Lundy Island just South of Bristol Docks , the cockpit filled with
smoke as if a smoke bomb had gone off and the engine stopped! I could
not discern whether the smoke was electrical in origin but assumed as
the engine had stopped it had to be.
The cause and subsequent sequence of events has now been established.
Alternator bearing seizure initiated dual rubber v-belt slip at the
crankshaft pulley.
In 2-3 seconds 50 cruise hp turned both rubber belts into smoke and
vulcanised them instead of driving the now freewheeling prop (no
flywheel effect to snap belts).
The alternator was switched off immediately but to no benefit since its
load was not the issue.
So instead of the crankshaft pulley driving the alternator, the
alternator now seized was now driving the engine to a stop! A relatively
minor accessory failure had initiated a cascade of events equivalent or
even worse than a major engine failure.
Ofcourse this should not happen should it?
Little did I know I had become an involuntary test pilot!!!!!!!with an
observer!!!!!
The idea of a re-start attempt was not surprisingly quickly rejected.
However, as I now know it would obviously have been a futile exercise,
the engine stopped from 50hp running so the starter did not have a
chance.
Two other aspects of this incident made for an extremely high workload.
1. I had to switch off all electrics to prevent any further risk of
smoke (if only to be able to see out for a forced landing) or worse
still fire. This meant I lost the electric trim.
This may appear a small thing but believe me, this meant the constant
use of one hand flying the stick without feel and as a consequence one
eye glued to the ASI. A workload I did not need at this time. Mechanical
trim would have helped enormously.
Try your practice forced landings in cruise trim to see what I mean. "It
could be you."
2. The other aspect which is a little more difficult to practice was the
free wheeling prop. All practice forced landings to date had been with
the engine at idle as is usual. In this condition increasing speed, by
diving, increases engine rpm so the sprag clutch is effectively
connecting engine and propeller like any other engine.
When the engine stopped, I was quickly aware of an abnormally high rate
of descent. The prop ran away like a wind generator in hurricane, the
feel of the stick was abnormal due to the out of trim load and I think
also the braking effect on the airflow over the tail.of the prop now in
drag parachute mode.
The location was far from ideal for a forced landing and with the high
rate of descent meaning short time for descent we could easily have come
off far worse especially since the area was well populated with power
lines of different sizes forcing a late rejection of the primary field
selection.
Having taken the diagonal in anticipation of the limited field size We
hit the far hedge in a 290 meter 30+ Celcius almost max gross with wind
light and variable as the sea breeze was backing up the Severn valley.
The near hedge incidentally was a 6 foot steep bank from a wide drainage
canal. This, coupled with the unusual deck angle in the glide which only
got worse of course when I put the coupled gear and flap down on the
Mono, requiring an unusually long duration flare as if landing up hill,
put our aiming point considerably before the actual touch down point so
we were going to hit the hedge. The last trick I had up my sleeve from
my cross country gliding days was to drop the gear in order to minimise
the ground roll. This in retrospect, although it did no such thing,
probably stopped us flipping upside down. I never considered applying
the brake but the wheel just keeps turning judging by our grass
marks.Which fortunately I was able to pace out having vacated the
aircraft.
I am giving a talk to Gloucester strut about the Europa rebuild and now
have a new chapter.
It is in the Aeros flying club building next Tuesday at 07.30 pm and
would welcome anyone especially Subaru owners to come along.
I still like the Subaru engine and would be happy to fly it again once
this single point failure has been addressed. If the Europa flies again
it will be called hedgehog!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stewart <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com> |
| Subject: | pitot static lines |
Do the pitot static line need to have water traps in them? We are
splitting both of these to conventional ASI / alti and the BMA EFIS 1
regards
paul
G-GIDY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls & spins |
paddyclarke(at)lineone.ne wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> I'm sure we can agree that no instruments are needed in the flare -
> my attempt at a bit of levity obviously didn't come through!
> I am a great fan of your talking ASI, it's a valuable contribution to
> flight safety and I would certainly have fitted one if I didn't have
> an AoA indicator. It is also much easier to retrofit, though it does
> depend on the validity of the target airspeed. To look at the
> indications of an AoA you have, of course, to glance inside - though
> mine is fitted at the very top of the instrument panel, so I might
> just pick up the bright lights in my peripheral vision.
> However, one day you may be making a rather tight turn onto final,
> roll on a bit of extra bank to stop the tailwind blowing you through
> the C/L, then pull rather sharply back as you realise you've let the
> nose drop - just as you hit the turbulence from the top of the big
> hangar. An American lady giving you a harsh rebuke may just save your
> life, whereas the English lady would be quietly content. After all,
> your airspeed is exactly the number she's been told to expect.
> All the Best, Paddy
>
Hi Paddy,
I agree with everything you say here except the bit about the turbulence because
if the wind speed (relative to the aircraft) changes rapidly, the talking ASI
will pick that up as quickly as the AoA instrument does. As you point out, the
real benefit that AoA gives over airspeed is the detection of the
accelerated stall. It did occur to me during development of the talking ASI that
by adding an accelerometer the widget could take into account the higher loading.
Perhaps I should investigate that idea further.
I've said enough now, everyone must be bored to tears.
If anyone wants to discuss the talking ASI further, please send email to enquires(at)smartavionics.com
Regards,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52022#52022
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | DOTH Fri 4th Chiltern Park |
Hi All,
Looking through the free landings for somewhere I haven't been, I
came across Chiltern Park near Henley, in Pilot. How about trying it
tomorrow (Friday, 1200hrs)?. We will have to take our own
refreshments, unless you fancy a 2.5 mile walk to a pub, and 'phone
for PPR
Cheers, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | NSI Subaru owners please read. |
Hello Belinda!
I am really sorry to hear of this unfortunate incident but am happy to
hear of your
successful (mostly) off field landing.
I run the Subaru engine as well and have been extremely happy with it
although mine
has been highly modified for more power. I no longer use the NSI redrive
but still have
their dual belt alternator pulley setup. I don't know if this applies to
your situation, but
I have been warned not to get the alternator belt too tight as there are two
of them
in parallel where the engine in the car only has one, putting twice as much
strain on the
alternator bearing. I have noticed that it is actually necessary to set
them fairly loose as
when the engine is hot, all the aluminum in the engine expands a
considerable amount,
tightening the belts significantly. I couldn't believe how much until I
checked the belt
tension right after a flight and they were incredibly tight. I have been
mostly concerned
with cracking the NSI alternator bracket which I have read some reports on,
probably
due to the same overtightened belts.
I had also heard of some seized alternators on NSI Kitfox installations
some years ago
and had been warned to provide good cooling around the alternator. I added
a fairly
large reverse vent right behind the alternator to provide a good flow. My
alternator
does have its own internal cooling fan as well.
I never considered that a seized alternator could stop the engine though.
Thats
a tough one. I'm thinking loosen the belts even more or just use one belt.
That way
at least the engine could still turn.
Sure hate to hear of your loss. I really appreciate the incident report.
I sincerely
hope G-BWCV is repairable!
Glenn
Golden, Colo USA
>From: "Belinda Glover" <belinda(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Europa-List: NSI Subaru owners please read.
>Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 23:40:51 +0100
>
>Our recently rebuilt Europa G-BWCV is again in pieces after we put only 30
>more flying hrs on this engine to add to the 50hrs it had done in the
>hands of the previous owner.
>
>We had just received the new full permit to fly when recently, heading for
>Lundy Island just South of Bristol Docks , the cockpit filled with smoke as
>if a smoke bomb had gone off and the engine stopped! I could not discern
>whether the smoke was electrical in origin but assumed as the engine had
>stopped it had to be.
>
>The cause and subsequent sequence of events has now been established.
>
>Alternator bearing seizure initiated dual rubber v-belt slip at the
>crankshaft pulley.
>In 2-3 seconds 50 cruise hp turned both rubber belts into smoke and
>vulcanised them instead of driving the now freewheeling prop (no flywheel
>effect to snap belts).
>
>The alternator was switched off immediately but to no benefit since its
>load was not the issue.
>
>So instead of the crankshaft pulley driving the alternator, the alternator
>now seized was now driving the engine to a stop! A relatively minor
>accessory failure had initiated a cascade of events equivalent or even
>worse than a major engine failure.
>
>Ofcourse this should not happen should it?
>
>Little did I know I had become an involuntary test pilot!!!!!!!with an
>observer!!!!!
>
>The idea of a re-start attempt was not surprisingly quickly rejected.
>However, as I now know it would obviously have been a futile exercise, the
>engine stopped from 50hp running so the starter did not have a chance.
>
>Two other aspects of this incident made for an extremely high workload.
>
>1. I had to switch off all electrics to prevent any further risk of smoke
>(if only to be able to see out for a forced landing) or worse still fire.
>This meant I lost the electric trim.
>
>This may appear a small thing but believe me, this meant the constant use
>of one hand flying the stick without feel and as a consequence one eye
>glued to the ASI. A workload I did not need at this time. Mechanical trim
>would have helped enormously.
>
>Try your practice forced landings in cruise trim to see what I mean. "It
>could be you."
>
>2. The other aspect which is a little more difficult to practice was the
>free wheeling prop. All practice forced landings to date had been with the
>engine at idle as is usual. In this condition increasing speed, by diving,
>increases engine rpm so the sprag clutch is effectively connecting engine
>and propeller like any other engine.
>When the engine stopped, I was quickly aware of an abnormally high rate of
>descent. The prop ran away like a wind generator in hurricane, the feel of
>the stick was abnormal due to the out of trim load and I think also the
>braking effect on the airflow over the tail.of the prop now in drag
>parachute mode.
>
>The location was far from ideal for a forced landing and with the high rate
>of descent meaning short time for descent we could easily have come off far
>worse especially since the area was well populated with power lines of
>different sizes forcing a late rejection of the primary field selection.
>
>Having taken the diagonal in anticipation of the limited field size We hit
>the far hedge in a 290 meter 30+ Celcius almost max gross with wind light
>and variable as the sea breeze was backing up the Severn valley. The near
>hedge incidentally was a 6 foot steep bank from a wide drainage canal.
>This, coupled with the unusual deck angle in the glide which only got worse
>of course when I put the coupled gear and flap down on the Mono, requiring
>an unusually long duration flare as if landing up hill, put our aiming
>point considerably before the actual touch down point so we were going to
>hit the hedge. The last trick I had up my sleeve from my cross country
>gliding days was to drop the gear in order to minimise the ground roll.
>This in retrospect, although it did no such thing, probably stopped us
>flipping upside down. I never considered applying the brake but the wheel
>just keeps turning judging by our grass marks.Which fortunately I was able
>to pace out having vacated the aircraft.
>
>I am giving a talk to Gloucester strut about the Europa rebuild and now
>have a new chapter.
>
>It is in the Aeros flying club building next Tuesday at 07.30 pm and would
>welcome anyone especially Subaru owners to come along.
>
>I still like the Subaru engine and would be happy to fly it again once this
>single point failure has been addressed. If the Europa flies again it will
>be called hedgehog!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave_Miller(at)avivacanada.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Hi Richard,
Something similar happened while I was in a friends 914 mono.
The turbo boost dropped and we lost power. Reducing power improved things,
as the prop went to fine with the reduced throttle setting.
The problem was the cabin heat system, taking heat off the muffler, was
dumping hot air near the air intake, when not directing it to the cockpit.
The computer in the turbo system ( I think ) sensed that things were too
hot and cut back the boost.
Re routing the hot air to the canopy vent cured the problem.
Just an idea, may not have any relevance to your problem
Dave A061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Stalls and spins |
paddyclarke(at)lineone.ne wrote:
> Hi All,
> and, to answer Marks point, has a good aural warning. Just
> remember to ignore the American lady when she says 'Angle, Angle,
> PUSH !' and you're in the flare !!
Mark Burton wrote:
Yes, but it still requires you to look inside the cockpit while flying the
approach to see the AoA display. Once you get to the point of flaring you
don't need any instruments at all.
Mark, respectfully,
...if you have to look into the cockpit, it`s not an appropriate
AoA. The whole purpose is to inform, not divert.
Also on the flare, all instruments should be aural, if any, and for
monowheels the rudder had better be in neutral because the tailwheel can`t
be far behind..........
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | creighton smith <crouton(at)well.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel starvation problems |
It appears whatever is plugging the filters is not the conventional sort
of debris and furthermore is a similar color to the filter media thus
making it difficult to determine whether contamination exists. This
suggests a couple of remedies.
One is to replace filters on a strict time basis such as Jeff reported
with Baby Blue. Discard at 1 hr, 5hr, 25hr, and every 50hr
thereafter-perhaps at every oil change. The bothersome thing is they
can be clogged with no visual evidence apparent.
In addition, a fuel suction gauge fitted between the filter and
electric pump will give an indication of filter restriction long before
it is apparent on the fuel pressure gauge.
Creighton Smith
Europa Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cliff & Betty Memorial Service |
The Memorial service for Cliff & Betty Shaw is scheduled for August 16th
2:00pm at Edmonds United Methodist Church.
There is more information about the service and if you are interested two
organizations for memorial gifts posted on my website at www.galaxyhobby.com
I know that several people have mentioned a moment of silence etc for Cliff
& Betty by Europa Club members and that is a very nice thought. I wanted to
post this information so you would all have the up to date times for
planning.
I am still very sad - it is very hard to lose your best buddy after 30
years.
Bob Jacobsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Location of compass |
When five or six years ago Andy Draper gave me a demonstration flight, the
compass fell off and rolled on the floor. It happened as we taxied back to the
hangar, but had it happened during a critical stage of the flight it could
have been potentially dangerous.
In view of this experience my strong preference is to fit the compass on top
of the instrument module, where it will be more secure. I know that some
Europa owners have gone for this option, even though the standard advice is to
keep the compass as far away as possible from other instruments, particularly
the tacho.
My question is this: have those builders who have fittted the compass on top
of the instrument module experienced unacceptably large false readings
caused by magnetic interference, or is the magnetic interference only a minor
problem?
John
XS mono G-JHKP (2000 build hours to date, panel wiring 90% complete, engine
installation next)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Location of compass |
My compass on the instrument module gives accurate readings, but I have an
EIS instead of a tacho.
I also have a useless Avelec fuel gauge just below, and I had to modify the
mounting, because it contains iron, which was interfering with the compass.
Karl
>From: JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Location of compass
>Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:50:55 EDT
>
>When five or six years ago Andy Draper gave me a demonstration flight, the
>compass fell off and rolled on the floor. It happened as we taxied back to
>the
>hangar, but had it happened during a critical stage of the flight it could
>have been potentially dangerous.
>
>In view of this experience my strong preference is to fit the compass on
>top
>of the instrument module, where it will be more secure. I know that some
>Europa owners have gone for this option, even though the standard advice is
>to
>keep the compass as far away as possible from other instruments,
>particularly
>the tacho.
>
>My question is this: have those builders who have fittted the compass on
>top
>of the instrument module experienced unacceptably large false readings
>caused by magnetic interference, or is the magnetic interference only a
>minor
>problem?
>
>John
>XS mono G-JHKP (2000 build hours to date, panel wiring 90% complete, engine
>installation next)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Location of compass |
Hi ! John.
My compass is mounted on top of the panel on a/c centre line and I
haven't noticed any bad effect from instruments in 6 years.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com
Sent: 03 August 2006 23:51
When five or six years ago Andy Draper gave me a demonstration flight,
the compass fell off and rolled on the floor. It happened as we taxied
back to the hangar, but had it happened during a critical stage of the
flight it could have been potentially dangerous.
In view of this experience my strong preference is to fit the compass on
top of the instrument module, where it will be more secure. I know that
some Europa owners have gone for this option, even though the standard
advice is to keep the compass as far away as possible from other
instruments, particularly the tacho.
My question is this: have those builders who have fittted the compass on
top of the instrument module experienced unacceptably large false
readings caused by magnetic interference, or is the magnetic
interference only a minor problem?
John
XS mono G-JHKP (2000 build hours to date, panel wiring 90% complete,
engine installation next)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Location of compass |
I fitted a digital fluxgate compass to the front of the roof just aft of
the windscreen. This is screwed to the roof having glassed in a plywood
base and will certainly not come loose accidentally. Any analogue
compass centrally mounted is difficult to read because of parallax
errors. I use the digital compass as a reference to update a DG so it is
only read occasionally. I also have a fluxgate feed to a RMI uEncoder.
With this set up you can mount the fluxgate unit wherever you want. I
put mine in the rear fuselage.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com
Sent: 03 August 2006 23:51
When five or six years ago Andy Draper gave me a demonstration flight,
the compass fell off and rolled on the floor. It happened as we taxied
back to the hangar, but had it happened during a critical stage of the
flight it could have been potentially dangerous.
In view of this experience my strong preference is to fit the compass on
top of the instrument module, where it will be more secure. I know that
some Europa owners have gone for this option, even though the standard
advice is to keep the compass as far away as possible from other
instruments, particularly the tacho.
My question is this: have those builders who have fittted the compass on
top of the instrument module experienced unacceptably large false
readings caused by magnetic interference, or is the magnetic
interference only a minor problem?
John
XS mono G-JHKP (2000 build hours to date, panel wiring 90% complete,
engine installation next)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Hello Richard
I had a few more easy to check thoughts today about your power loss:
Check to see if your carb to manifold rubber boots are leaking. If you
don't have Kevlar reinforced, very good idea to replace them. Read
bulletin on how far you can tighten boots, better yet if you don't have
new style clamps with built in stops, get some.
Did you satisfy the recent bulletin to change carb float pivot pins?
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stewart <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com> |
Anyone interfaced a Navaid wing leveler with a BMA EFIS 1?
Paul
G-GIDY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willie.harrison(at)tinyonline.co.uk |
| Subject: | Stalls and spins |
It seems to me that everyone is right - it doesn't matter how you stay alert
to the possibility of one or both wings stalling, if you let them, so long
as you really do stay alert and maintain a safe margin at all times. Alert
is the operative word. I'm sure we have all been reminded by this tragedy
that stall/spin is a common killer and it could happen to any of us if we
let it.
The one specific thing I'd like to share was an incident ages ago when I
stalled a Jodel from 30 feet due to windshear at Audley End (which can be
very fickle if the wind is coming straight over the top of the hill). One
moment I had an approach airspeed of 50kts, and the next it was 30 and I
was falling not flying. Fortunately that aircraft had loads of washout on
the wing so at least I came down the right way up.
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY - about to get a dose of Mod 66 following breakage of gas strut attachment
lug...
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <n914va(at)bvunet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls and spins |
I have had the opposite problem on landing. Rolling out at about 40 knots
when a sudden head on wind gust put me at flying speed. The Tomahawk
immediately jumped up to about 20' above the runway. Had my instructor not
drilled into me to never take my hand off the throttle while doing
maneuvers, I would have fallen like a rock when the gust just as suddenly
ceased. Because I had the throttle full on at the top of this sudden climb,
I was able to do a go around and make a proper landing. If my hand was not
on the throttle, the time lag would no doubt have resulted in an unpleasant
flying day. We should all try to never develop bad habits or get lazy when
it comes to flying about in a really unforgiving 3D medium.Our asses truly
depend on it.
Vaughn Teegarden
N914VA (It will fly this century)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 6:22 AM
>
> It seems to me that everyone is right - it doesn't matter how you stay
> alert
> to the possibility of one or both wings stalling, if you let them, so long
> as you really do stay alert and maintain a safe margin at all times. Alert
> is the operative word. I'm sure we have all been reminded by this tragedy
> that stall/spin is a common killer and it could happen to any of us if we
> let it.
>
> The one specific thing I'd like to share was an incident ages ago when I
> stalled a Jodel from 30 feet due to windshear at Audley End (which can be
> very fickle if the wind is coming straight over the top of the hill). One
> moment I had an approach airspeed of 50kts, and the next it was 30 and I
> was falling not flying. Fortunately that aircraft had loads of washout on
> the wing so at least I came down the right way up.
>
> Willie Harrison
> G-BZNY - about to get a dose of Mod 66 following breakage of gas strut
> attachment
> lug...
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | engine failure due to filters |
Having followed the air filter blockage discussion over the last few
years I would like to offer the following as a summary of what has been
learnt so far and what I think can be done to minimise the problem.
1. There are two main types of blockage.
a. That due to swarf from tank drilling.
b. That due to fuel impurities.
2. The swarf problem once solved, should not reoccur but even better not
to have it in the first place. This is not an easy task because it is
difficult to see and it tends to stick to the tank initially due to
static charge. To minimise the spread of any swarf, first place the tank
so any drilling is done from underneath. This stops the swarf falling
away from the hole. Drill slowly to avoid the swarf being thrown away
from the hole. When drilling is complete wipe the swarf around the hole
back through the hole with your finger. If holes are drilled in the top
of the tank for fuel quantity senders there is access to use a pipe on
the end of a vacuum cleaner hose to suck out any remaining swarf. As a
final measure the tank can be rinsed out with water. Before connecting
up the fuel piping forward of the firewall use the electrical pump to
empty the tank several times to catch any contamination before any
engine runs. This can also be combined with calibrating the tank
contents. Also check the filters/gascolator for contamination after each
engine run. Taxi checks will also help to shake the fuel around to
dislodge any remaining swarf.
3. Choice of filters or gascolators. The standard filters will not
collect much swarf before they block up. Larger filters help but a
gascolator is better still. A gascolator also provides an extra water
trap and the filter used in the Andair gascolator is fine enough to
prevent water passing through. Removing, emptying and cleaning/replacing
filters is more difficult with inline filters than gascolators. It is
also easier to incorporate gascolators into a rigid pipe system.
Remember that any rubber hose used should be replaced every 5 years.
Rigid pipework is lighter and a fit and forget system.
4. The only reported case of an Andair gascolator blocking is due to
fuel impurities sticking to the filter. The risk of this is minimised if
fuel is bought from sources with high turnover such as supermarket
filling stations. Another protection measure is to pour the fuel through
a 'Mr Funnel' funnel. This uses the same type of filter element as the
Andair gascolator so should prevent any contaminant getting through to
the gascolator.
5. Removing the gascolator bowl after each flight initially, reducing to
after each service once hours have been accumulated will show up if any
swarf has been missed. Different versions of the Andair gascolator have
different means of attaching the bowl. The bayonet fit version is the
most difficult to remove and refit due to the tight tolerances of the
parts and the seal. This is made easier with a smear of grease between
the parts in the region of the seal before refitting.
I hope this list of points is of help, particularly for those of you
still building. There may be some more tips others can add to this list.
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Nigel - Thanks for your words on engine failures - in the early days of us
flying it G-MFHI suffered a partial engine failure - the trouble was
isolated to the filter being clogged with fibers. I presume that these were
latent from when the AC was built - I guess at the time of the failure, the
filters were the original ones and the logbook had about 30 hours or so (we
didn't build the AC so can't say for sure but the logbooks show no record of
them being changed).
Some 150 hours later, we're still forced to change the filters very
regularly (we clean them about ever 5 flight hours!) - we're getting small
brown particles coming though and being trapped by the filters. We're at
something of a loss as to what these particles are - we've changed all of
the fuel pipes from the filters backwards. The only hose that hasn't been
touched since new is the filler hose.
Have you heard any instances of this hose breaking down and edpositing bits
into the fuel? Do you think that as a matter of course, given that this hose
is some 10 years old now, replace it. If so, any suggestions of the best
solution - Europa are unable to supply one and have no interest in doing so.
Any comments / suggestions would be most welcome.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | engine failure due to filters |
Hi! Nigel
I'd also seek to remind everyone about the need to ensure that the exit
hole drillings through the tank connectors are expanded at their
intersection, a check which needs the finger filters removed and
replaced.
I also can confirm that I use a Mini Andair gascolator and find it to be
excellent and without fault, cleaning it's filter at every service
reveals only the most slight contamination.
On Peter Rees problem ......is the filler pipe on your aircraft the
original early one? There was a mandatory change of filler pipes and I
wonder if yours slipped the net?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Sent: 04 August 2006 21:19
Having followed the air filter blockage discussion over the last few
years I would like to offer the following as a summary of what has been
learnt so far and what I think can be done to minimise the problem.
1. There are two main types of blockage.
a. That due to swarf from tank drilling.
b. That due to fuel impurities.
2. The swarf problem once solved, should not reoccur but even better not
to have it in the first place. This is not an easy task because it is
difficult to see and it tends to stick to the tank initially due to
static charge. To minimise the spread of any swarf, first place the tank
so any drilling is done from underneath. This stops the swarf falling
away from the hole. Drill slowly to avoid the swarf being thrown away
from the hole. When drilling is complete wipe the swarf around the hole
back through the hole with your finger. If holes are drilled in the top
of the tank for fuel quantity senders there is access to use a pipe on
the end of a vacuum cleaner hose to suck out any remaining swarf. As a
final measure the tank can be rinsed out with water. Before connecting
up the fuel piping forward of the firewall use the electrical pump to
empty the tank several times to catch any contamination before any
engine runs. This can also be combined with calibrating the tank
contents. Also check the filters/gascolator for contamination after each
engine run. Taxi checks will also help to shake the fuel around to
dislodge any remaining swarf.
3. Choice of filters or gascolators. The standard filters will not
collect much swarf before they block up. Larger filters help but a
gascolator is better still. A gascolator also provides an extra water
trap and the filter used in the Andair gascolator is fine enough to
prevent water passing through. Removing, emptying and cleaning/replacing
filters is more difficult with inline filters than gascolators. It is
also easier to incorporate gascolators into a rigid pipe system.
Remember that any rubber hose used should be replaced every 5 years.
Rigid pipework is lighter and a fit and forget system.
4. The only reported case of an Andair gascolator blocking is due to
fuel impurities sticking to the filter. The risk of this is minimised if
fuel is bought from sources with high turnover such as supermarket
filling stations. Another protection measure is to pour the fuel through
a 'Mr Funnel' funnel. This uses the same type of filter element as the
Andair gascolator so should prevent any contaminant getting through to
the gascolator.
5. Removing the gascolator bowl after each flight initially, reducing to
after each service once hours have been accumulated will show up if any
swarf has been missed. Different versions of the Andair gascolator have
different means of attaching the bowl. The bayonet fit version is the
most difficult to remove and refit due to the tight tolerances of the
parts and the seal. This is made easier with a smear of grease between
the parts in the region of the seal before refitting.
I hope this list of points is of help, particularly for those of you
still building. There may be some more tips others can add to this list.
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPurpura(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Sounds like vapor lock, how well are yor fuel lines insulated? I had a
similar problem with my 914 and wrapping the fuel lines was the fix.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
<< I did discover a split starting in one>>
Richard,
Have you always had the airbox fitted?
It is unusual to find the rubbers splitting in the presence of an
airbox.
Can't comment on the vibration, other than to check that any LE prop
protection is secure.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Europa-List: 912S engine vibration
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
Duncan.
I always have had the airbox fitted. It was my local Rotax man who
urged me to have a closer look at the rubbers. He tells me that he has
come across splits in the sockets on engines with only a few hours
although these are probably on microlights with unsupported carbs. I
couldn't see the crack with the rubbers in place, I had to remove them
completely and bend them around to find it.
Cheers.
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan
McFadyean
Sent: 05 August 2006 11:16
<< I did discover a split starting in one>>
Richard,
Have you always had the airbox fitted?
It is unusual to find the rubbers splitting in the presence of an
airbox.
Can't comment on the vibration, other than to check that any LE prop
protection is secure.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:37 AM
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls and spins |
Willie, This for me underlines the benefit of Mark's Smartass system, as
opposed to a stall warner. The Europa good weather approach speed of 60 kts
is some 20kts over the normal stall speed for my plane, and Mark's system
will consequently give you 20 kts worth of warning if you are slowing,
whereas the stall warner clicks in only 5kts or so ahead of trouble. Losing
5 or 10 kts due to windshear is commonplace in reasonable weather
conditions, and although in ideal circumstances we are monitoring speed like
hawks and will compensate before things have got too much out of line, it
can be an entirely different kettle of fish if the workload is excessive -
perhaps a very busy circuit with someone appearing to cut in front of you
(typical rally scenario you might think!). In those sort of circumstances
you may already have let things get a bit slow and low, and might without
giving it full thought be still trying to make the nose point at the
numbers, while mostly concentrating on the guy to starboard who is
threatening to cut in. With the Smartass Mark's lovely wife will have
already told you several times that you are too slow or much too slow, but
without it, the windshear, the stall warner and the spin may all happen more
or less simultaneously. That system incidentally lets you set the chosen
approach speed very simply in the circuit, so that you can for instance set
a higher speed if conditions are boisterous, 'fickle' or whatever.
I should say that I don't have shares, nor yet a Smartass, but I have
flown with one and plan to put one in when I redesign my panel.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:22 AM
>
> It seems to me that everyone is right - it doesn't matter how you stay
alert
> to the possibility of one or both wings stalling, if you let them, so long
> as you really do stay alert and maintain a safe margin at all times. Alert
> is the operative word. I'm sure we have all been reminded by this tragedy
> that stall/spin is a common killer and it could happen to any of us if we
> let it.
>
> The one specific thing I'd like to share was an incident ages ago when I
> stalled a Jodel from 30 feet due to windshear at Audley End (which can be
> very fickle if the wind is coming straight over the top of the hill). One
> moment I had an approach airspeed of 50kts, and the next it was 30 and I
> was falling not flying. Fortunately that aircraft had loads of washout on
> the wing so at least I came down the right way up.
>
> Willie Harrison
> G-BZNY - about to get a dose of Mod 66 following breakage of gas strut
attachment
> lug...
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free.
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Engine failure due to filters |
Nigel,
Thanks for the timely and interesting run-down on the aspects of
tank and filter. This will not apply to 912 readesr but for us 914ers:
Would you think a continuous running of series/parallel fuel
pumps (with short circuits from output to return line) would forestall some
of this plugging before flight? Since we here have a mandatory engine-run
minimum perhaps we could do the above during that period and allay some of
the suggested gumming/swarf concern.
I have combined my 3/8inch alu tubing with a concentrated
plumbing compartment (in the second of 56 compartments below the extended
baggage section) where the filters are hinged above all so that they are (a)
easily and quickly inspected, and (b) by draining the Andair below, emptied
for dis-assembly and cleaning as required. I'm not sure it would meet with
anyone else's needs but my inspector has OK'd it. If I can master the
technique, will try to reduce photo size and send to anyone interested.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
PS: Superb set-up there and hugs for Kathy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlborger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Ferg,
I'd sure like to see pics of your setup.
I still have the old, original, parallel pump setup with the glass
filters in line between the fuel selector and the pumps. I'm not
crazy about the setup, but haven't been able to come up with what I
believe is a suitable alternative.
Right now, I'm thinking about adding a single large Anadir gascolator
in-line before the Tee to the glass filters and pumps. But I need to
mount it such that it's easily accessible for maintenance.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24
Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Waiting for E04
interior kit. Preparing for ROTAX 914 installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
Hello Richard
"I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's."
"Any idea's?"
Have a look at:
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_vibration.htm
Have a look at causes of vibration and troubleshooting.
You will need to install Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer, free on that link if
Powerpoint will not open as was the case with my version. You need to
download the ppt, then open the viewer, and open the ppt through the
viewer.
Does operating on 1 igniton then the other change things?
You said you adjusted your carb sync. Did you make absolute certain that
the routing of your cables is not creating lost motion due to flexing of
the cables? How about the bug nuts perhaps being overtightened (bug nuts
are the cylinder in the carb linkage arm that you thread the cable through
and tighten the screw to hold the cable) if the cylinder is not able to
rotate free it can cause carbs to become out of sync, just like the
hysteriousis caused by flexing of cables.
You check careful no cable too close to heat and got damaged?
Did you replace the float pins as per the bulletin? If you think carbs are
perhaps a bit rich, turn off your fuel selector in cruise, when bowls go
low mixture will get leaner, best do it only for an instant, turn off
fuel, if it gets better, pull power and turn on selector, go land and
trouble shoot rich. If it has no change, the split second it begins to get
rough, or if you have a EGT and you see going high, pull power, and turn
on selector. I have no first hand experience with a Europa, but the BD5
used to adjust mixture (leaner) by having a needle valve control flow into
the 3 carbs of a Zenoah! It is possable that if you are good with fiddly
things you could actual restrict flow enough with selector to prolong the
good running to be sure.
Did you check to make absolute sure the prop blades are in good shape,
that they are tracking precise and that the angles are exact? The spinner
is tracking true, tight and no severe cracks?
Did you check to see if your undercarriage mounting frame is cracked>
Inspect motor mounts, tight and the motor mount and mounting ring OK.
Are your both your carb float bowl vents in good shape, no kinks and run
to ambient air?
Fly at vibration speed for a while, land and check plugs for color? Best
to pull power quit engine and deadstick but if not wanting to do that,
lose altitude with power setting left alone and lose altitude with steep
turns, and land and shut down as quick as practicable.
Check very careful your exhaust for cracks, your carbs are not covered in
exhaust grunge by chance, are they?
Let us know resolve.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
Hello Richard
"I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's."
"Any idea's?"
Have a look at:
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_vibration.htm
Have a look at causes of vibration and troubleshooting.
You will need to install Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer, free on that link if
Powerpoint will not open as was the case with my version. You need to
download the ppt, then open the viewer, and open the ppt through the
viewer.
Does operating on 1 igniton then the other change things?
You said you adjusted your carb sync. Did you make absolute certain that
the routing of your cables is not creating lost motion due to flexing of
the cables? How about the bug nuts perhaps being overtightened (bug nuts
are the cylinder in the carb linkage arm that you thread the cable through
and tighten the screw to hold the cable) if the cylinder is not able to
rotate free it can cause carbs to become out of sync, just like the
hysteriousis caused by flexing of cables.
You check careful no cable too close to heat and got damaged?
Did you replace the float pins as per the bulletin? If you think carbs are
perhaps a bit rich, turn off your fuel selector in cruise, when bowls go
low mixture will get leaner, best do it only for an instant, turn off
fuel, if it gets better, pull power and turn on selector, go land and
trouble shoot rich. If it has no change, the split second it begins to get
rough, or if you have a EGT and you see going high, pull power, and turn
on selector. I have no first hand experience with a Europa, but the BD5
used to adjust mixture (leaner) by having a needle valve control flow into
the 3 carbs of a Zenoah! It is possable that if you are good with fiddly
things you could actual restrict flow enough with selector to prolong the
good running to be sure.
Did you check to make absolute sure the prop blades are in good shape,
that they are tracking precise and that the angles are exact? The spinner
is tracking true, tight and no severe cracks?
Did you check to see if your undercarriage mounting frame is cracked>
Inspect motor mounts, tight and the motor mount and mounting ring OK.
Are your both your carb float bowl vents in good shape, no kinks and run
to ambient air?
Fly at vibration speed for a while, land and check plugs for color? Best
to pull power quit engine and deadstick but if not wanting to do that,
lose altitude with power setting left alone and lose altitude with steep
turns, and land and shut down as quick as practicable.
Check very careful your exhaust for cracks, your carbs are not covered in
exhaust grunge by chance, are they?
Let us know resolve.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Belinda Glover" <belinda(at)gloverb.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
Peter,
I had the replacement Yellow date stamped black fuel pipe supplied F.O.C. by
Europa go exactly the same way as the non date stamped first one.
The aircraft had been filled with fuel (since there is no water trap)and
left standing for some weeks waiting on PFA paperwork and the fuel ate its
way through a full fuel pipe! I sent the original back to Europa for them to
examine but never got any feedback. When the second pipe did the same thing
and the fuel was again found on opening the cockpit, sat in the starboard
baggage bay, I decided that I would have to source my own pipe.
In both cases the pipe had embrittled and cracked right though where the
fuel sat in the lowest part of the pipe. On removal and cutting the pipe,
the inner fuel proof lining was loose and disintegrated. There were lots of
small rubber particles which forced me to flush the tank.
It sounds like you might have a similar problem.
Regards
Gary McKirdy
NSI Subaru 75hrs TT Crashed by previous owner @50hrs Re-built by me, just
Re-crashed by me, deciding on second re-build!+- 4000 build and rebuild hrs!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 10:11 PM
>
> Nigel - Thanks for your words on engine failures - in the early days of us
> flying it G-MFHI suffered a partial engine failure - the trouble was
> isolated to the filter being clogged with fibers. I presume that these
were
> latent from when the AC was built - I guess at the time of the failure,
the
> filters were the original ones and the logbook had about 30 hours or so
(we
> didn't build the AC so can't say for sure but the logbooks show no record
of
> them being changed).
>
> Some 150 hours later, we're still forced to change the filters very
> regularly (we clean them about ever 5 flight hours!) - we're getting small
> brown particles coming though and being trapped by the filters. We're at
> something of a loss as to what these particles are - we've changed all of
> the fuel pipes from the filters backwards. The only hose that hasn't been
> touched since new is the filler hose.
>
> Have you heard any instances of this hose breaking down and edpositing
bits
> into the fuel? Do you think that as a matter of course, given that this
hose
> is some 10 years old now, replace it. If so, any suggestions of the best
> solution - Europa are unable to supply one and have no interest in doing
so.
>
> Any comments / suggestions would be most welcome.
>
> Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer(at)quicknet.nl> |
All,
Putting my Bird up for Sale, I am moving to a 4 seater.
http://www.planecheck.com/?ent=da&id=6058
Sven den Boer
A168
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Bob,
I have the same ste up and it seems to work very well. The filters are
easily accessible and take only minutes to check. I see no reason to add any
complications. The a/c has 140 hours and no problems.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kim Prout <kpaviat(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
Hello Richard!
I noticed that the replies to your vibration inquiry included everything
external. My 912, at about 400 hours started developing a significant
vibration that drove me nuts until I sent in the propeller speed reduction
assembly in for service. Upon disassembly, I noticed that the primary gear
set from the crankshaft to the driving dog was worn. Whatever frequency was
associated with that apparently translated to low frequency vibration outpu
t
to the gearbox and engine. I replaced the gear set in addition to the usual
servicing of the gearbox and this made the engine smooth again. An internal
problem, not external. I don=B9t know how many hours you have on your Rotax
and if you have serviced the gearbox at the recommended 200 hour intervals
but this can make a significant difference and has proven out in other
Europas with same complaint.
Good Luck and ...
Happy Skies!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls and spins |
David was referring to the "Smartass" fitted to my Europa, so you might be
interested in my view on its operation and safety aspect.
The strip I am using at present has trees right up to one end and power
lines at the other end, so when on the approach and climb-out my eyeballs
are right out on storks to make sure I am taking the best line with maximum
clearance and enough runway to stop.
On climb-out Helen tells me every few seconds what my airspeed is so that I
can hold it at the best climb-angle speed to clear the obstructions and on
the approach I set it to my target approach speed for the current conditions
and hold it at that while I negotiate the obstructions. Helen then tells me
if I am "fast", or "very fast" or "slow" or "very slow", but if I get it
right she just says "speed good" which is very comforting in difficult
conditions. Also when the speed is "good" the interval between Helen's
announcements is longer and when the speed is "slow" or "very slow" the
interval becomes much shorter to emphasise the urgency.
I have also found it to be very useful if I inadvertently stray into cloud,
because there is one less instrument to worry about and there is a little
more time to adjust the GPS or radio without losing the plot.
There is just an on/off/volume knob and a mode selection push-button, so it
occupies only about a square inch of panel space and the box of tricks
weighs only a few ounces and can be installed anywhere remotely. Having
fitted one, I can confirm that it is a great safety asset and I would no
longer be without one, difficult strips or not. Very many thanks to Mark
for his brilliant innovation.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 3:25 PM
>
>
> Willie, This for me underlines the benefit of Mark's Smartass system, as
> opposed to a stall warner. The Europa good weather approach speed of 60
> kts
> is some 20kts over the normal stall speed for my plane, and Mark's system
> will consequently give you 20 kts worth of warning if you are slowing,
> whereas the stall warner clicks in only 5kts or so ahead of trouble.
> Losing
> 5 or 10 kts due to windshear is commonplace in reasonable weather
> conditions, and although in ideal circumstances we are monitoring speed
> like
> hawks and will compensate before things have got too much out of line, it
> can be an entirely different kettle of fish if the workload is excessive -
> perhaps a very busy circuit with someone appearing to cut in front of you
> (typical rally scenario you might think!). In those sort of circumstances
> you may already have let things get a bit slow and low, and might without
> giving it full thought be still trying to make the nose point at the
> numbers, while mostly concentrating on the guy to starboard who is
> threatening to cut in. With the Smartass Mark's lovely wife will have
> already told you several times that you are too slow or much too slow, but
> without it, the windshear, the stall warner and the spin may all happen
> more
> or less simultaneously. That system incidentally lets you set the chosen
> approach speed very simply in the circuit, so that you can for instance
> set
> a higher speed if conditions are boisterous, 'fickle' or whatever.
> I should say that I don't have shares, nor yet a Smartass, but I
> have
> flown with one and plan to put one in when I redesign my panel.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:22 AM
>
>
>>
>> It seems to me that everyone is right - it doesn't matter how you stay
> alert
>> to the possibility of one or both wings stalling, if you let them, so
>> long
>> as you really do stay alert and maintain a safe margin at all times.
>> Alert
>> is the operative word. I'm sure we have all been reminded by this tragedy
>> that stall/spin is a common killer and it could happen to any of us if we
>> let it.
>>
>> The one specific thing I'd like to share was an incident ages ago when I
>> stalled a Jodel from 30 feet due to windshear at Audley End (which can be
>> very fickle if the wind is coming straight over the top of the hill). One
>> moment I had an approach airspeed of 50kts, and the next it was 30 and I
>> was falling not flying. Fortunately that aircraft had loads of washout on
>> the wing so at least I came down the right way up.
>>
>> Willie Harrison
>> G-BZNY - about to get a dose of Mod 66 following breakage of gas strut
> attachment
>> lug...
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free.
>> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
Kim,
My engine has done around 300 hours and I wasn't aware of the need to
service the gearbox at 200 hour intervals. All I can find on the Rotax
web site is SB-912-033 service bulletin which recommends inspecting the
gearbox at 600 hours if using avgas for more than 30% of the time. Can
you point me in the direction of the instructions for servicing the
gearbox?
Regards,
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kim Prout
Sent: 06 August 2006 00:52
Hello Richard!
I noticed that the replies to your vibration inquiry included everything
external. My 912, at about 400 hours started developing a significant
vibration that drove me nuts until I sent in the propeller speed
reduction assembly in for service. Upon disassembly, I noticed that the
primary gear set from the crankshaft to the driving dog was worn.
Whatever frequency was associated with that apparently translated to low
frequency vibration output to the gearbox and engine. I replaced the
gear set in addition to the usual servicing of the gearbox and this made
the engine smooth again. An internal problem, not external. I don't know
how many hours you have on your Rotax and if you have serviced the
gearbox at the recommended 200 hour intervals but this can make a
significant difference and has proven out in other Europas with same
complaint.
Good Luck and ...
Happy Skies!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "karelvranken" <karelvranken(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Hello Ferg and all,
Here comes the thru story of the second filter. Mark Waite went with the
Europa demonstrator to Friedrichshafen for the Messe Aero 2003. There he
refulled often from a tank on wheels that was placed near the grass
runway where the demonstration flights toke place. This tank was an old
military object that certainly for years wasn't used before it served at
the Aero. So when I asked Mark to make a night stop at my home field
EBLE in Belgium when returning to England, he was pleased and we spend a
good moment togheter. He refulled and started in not very good wheather
so that he had to fly at 1000 feet agl or even lower. Then his filter
became clogged and he had to make an emergency landing in Ostend where
the filter was found full of brown debris. Mark told me that the last
refuelling at my place procured him a lot of fear.
Now, I knew better because we never had fuel or filter problems in our
club. If the tank in Friedrichshafen was as rusty inside as outside then
the reason for dark brown debris in the filter was easy to explain. Next
to this came the bulletin for a second filter and a lot of possible
arrangements. For me it is clear. You may add filters and bypasses as
much as you like, if you don't control what is poured in the funnel than
you never can be sure. The mini gascolator from Andair is aircraft
material and good for engines up to 150 hp. When using additionally the
fuel filter funnel from Smart Tech you may sleep on both ears like they
say in flemisch....until you tell me another story.
Karel Vranken, # 447 F-PKRL, final control before first flight on
september 7th.
---- Original Message -----
From: rlborger
To: Fergus Kyle ; europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Filters
Ferg,
I'd sure like to see pics of your setup.
I still have the old, original, parallel pump setup with the glass
filters in line between the fuel selector and the pumps. I'm not crazy
about the setup, but haven't been able to come up with what I believe is
a suitable alternative.
Right now, I'm thinking about adding a single large Anadir gascolator
in-line before the Tee to the glass filters and pumps. But I need to
mount it such that it's easily accessible for maintenance.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in,
flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24 Instrument
Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail,
34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05.
Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Waiting for E04 interior kit. Preparing
for ROTAX 914 installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve v." <s.vestuti(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Hi Richard, your problem sounds like fuel starvation, besides the parcialy blocked
fuel tank vent already mentioned, if you are using the factory rubber hoses
you may have a restricion on a tight radius , this could worsen at alt./low
temp.,
on four cylinder motorcycle engines, cracks or air leaks at the rubber
sockets connecting the outlet of the carberetors to the
inlet manifolds would CAUSE the RPM to INCREASE or still rev for
a few seconds after the throttle was retarded - the result of
uncontrolled air being sucked in to the chamber.
steve vestui #573
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Scherer" <thomas(at)scherer.com> |
| Subject: | L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back |
This year my son Paul decided to fly to Oshkosh with me, so we chose a
direct route from Los Angeles to Albuquerque, Kansas and Southern Wisconsin
where we met up with Paul Mc Allister and his daughter Kristi as well as a
Long EZ flyer, Jim Price.
The trip to Wisconsin was flown with one landing for fuel.
Next morning we flew three planes in formation into Ripon - Fisk - Oshkosh
and spent three gorgeous days in Oshkosh, sleeping under the wings. On the
way in - right over Fisk I called an engine failure to the formation and
while you'd normally pull up to gain altitude and get to optimum gliding
speed, I chose to push down away from the formation. Switching to reserve
quickly fixed the engine failure (at 1800 ft it ought to ...) and we
continued straight in for a landing on 36 right. Next time I will not only
fill the aux tanks with fuel but also pump over into the main tank.
On the last day in KOSH I asked my son where he would like to visit on the
way back and he said "the Bahamas". Two days later we were in Marsh Harbour
on the Abaco Island and went snorkeling.
The return flight took us through Tallahassee, Florida then El Paso Texas
and a safe landing home yesterday. This trip has added 60 hours to the now
840 hours of flying in my Europa. The Rotax 912 has never missed a beat nor
has the Europa ever shown any malign behaviour. She is a true Magic Carpet.
Looking forward to meeting some of you at our local fly-in "Copperstate"
later this year.
fly safe,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "danbish" <n914rb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back |
Thomas,
Great meeting you and your son in OSH and seeing your plane. Your travels are giving
builders like me the inspiration needed to get finished.
Gary came over yesterday to help me set the wings (2.5 deg. exact!) and today I
install the support bar and maybe the flap control rod depending on time. I bought
my prop at OSH and have just found a cowl so all I need to source is the
rest of the FWF kit and the panel, which I'm real close on.
So keep us builders in mind as you're out flyin' about. We're right behind you!
See you at Copperstate,
Dan
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because
of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially
set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they
will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the
List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and
how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back |
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
On Sunday, August 6, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Thomas Scherer wrote:
> This trip has added 60 hours to the now 840 hours of flying in my
> Europa. The Rotax 912 has never missed a beat nor has the Europa ever
> shown any malign behaviour.
Thomas,
Thank you for the inspiring description of your recent trip; I've also
enjoyed your website writing and pixs of your globe-girdling
adventures...my hat is off to you.
I'm particularly taken with your satisfactory experience with your
Rotax, having become a Rotax-skeptic while reading accounts of various
problems other Europa owners have had; readers of this forum know me
for my enthusiasm for Alex Bowman's 130 hp VTEC Honda installation.
How do you account for the excellent trouble-free performance of your
Rotax 912? (Or is it a 912S?) Can you describe your routine operation
and maintenance procedures and schedule? Also, can you give your max.
take off weight when you had your son and 2 aux. fuel tanks topped off?
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Scherer" <thomas(at)scherer.com> |
| Subject: | Re: L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back |
Hi Fred,
thank you for your eMail. I'll have to update my website - I haven't even
added the story and pictures of last year's Oshkosh via Alaska...
My eMail was actually written with the intent to re-concentrate on the joys
of building and flying the Europa. Too many problems have been discussed at
times in a non-professional manner. Lots of cracked Rotax cores and stalls
lately. For a while I was actually thinking myself that the Europa does bite
and the Rotax might be a problem-ridden design. But it simply does not match
my own observations. I bought my Rotax 912 in 1995 and it has been in my
Europa Classic Trigear since.
I have in the entire time changed spark plugs twice and the rubber in the
carburators once. I truly belive it is a very solid, tried and honest
design. The same core is used on the 912, 912S and 914. I figure the 912
does have the most safety margin and least wear. It is imperative to keep it
cool (I have a dual cooler setup).
The Honda did impress me, too. It does have all the latest in technology
with fuel injection and electronic ignition. Yet it seems to be heavy and
the gearbox is not native to it. And 130 hp is a lot for this little
airplane. I always remind people of the Dykins design wing which is made for
120 kn and does perform poorly at 160 kn and higher.
You ask a good question with max take-off weight. I didn't give it much
attention... My son is 13 and weighs in at 85 lbs. I have 200 lbs and we had
70 liter in the main tank and 70 liter in aux tank at take-off. My plane was
weighed at 808 lbs. I guess we were over gross. Hm ..... we took off at 0400
am in the morning into cool air. It would not have worked on a hot Denver
afternoon I guess. Yet I recall take-off performance to be ok. Climb rate
was 450 ft/min which I mainly attribute to the newly installed cold-air feed
system.
I would recommend the Rotax wholeheartedly to anybody. Wouldn't have flown
the Oceans behind anyting else available to-day.
be well,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back
>
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Thomas Scherer wrote:
>
>> This trip has added 60 hours to the now 840 hours of flying in my
>> Europa. The Rotax 912 has never missed a beat nor has the Europa ever
>> shown any malign behaviour.
>
> Thomas,
>
> Thank you for the inspiring description of your recent trip; I've also
> enjoyed your website writing and pixs of your globe-girdling
> adventures...my hat is off to you.
>
> I'm particularly taken with your satisfactory experience with your Rotax,
> having become a Rotax-skeptic while reading accounts of various problems
> other Europa owners have had; readers of this forum know me for my
> enthusiasm for Alex Bowman's 130 hp VTEC Honda installation.
>
> How do you account for the excellent trouble-free performance of your
> Rotax 912? (Or is it a 912S?) Can you describe your routine operation and
> maintenance procedures and schedule? Also, can you give your max. take off
> weight when you had your son and 2 aux. fuel tanks topped off?
>
> Fred
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Hallett <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | L.A. to Osh 06 and back |
Thanks Thomas, your story comes at the right time in my build.
Ralph
XS MG
914
reno, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | engine failure due to filters |
Nigel Charles wrote
" The bayonet fit version is the most difficult to remove and refit due
to the tight tolerances of the parts and the seal. This is made easier
with a smear of grease between the parts in the region of the seal
before refitting."
Just one thing to add to Nigel's excellent summary. The Mini gascolator
(bayonet fit) can be a job to remove but this is due to the Viton "O"
ring being stretched. So fit a new vitron ring at the (cost of 1.65 GBP
each so get some spares) and your troubles are solved.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevpond(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: DOTH Sherburn-in-Elmet Tue8th |
Hi Paddy,
Should be there, look forward to it.
Trev Pond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Stalls and spins |
It is important to realise with all stall warning systems whether they
are giving you warnings above a nominated speed or whether they are
giving you a warning that you are approaching a critical AOA.
For example 5kts warning above a critical AOA is better than 15kts
warning above a speed which is the wings level one 'g' stall speed. If
you bank 45deg in level flight the stall speed increases by about 40 per
cent so if your wings level stall speed was 40kts at 45deg bank it
becomes about 56kts. Thus in this case a speed warning of 15kts before
the stall becomes no warning at all whereas a conventional stall warner
or AOA system will still provide the 5kt warning
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
| From: | "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com> |
[quote="nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk"]It is important to realise with all stall warning
systems whether they
are giving you warnings above a nominated speed or whether they are
giving you a warning that you are approaching a critical AOA.
For example 5kts warning above a critical AOA is better than 15kts
warning above a speed which is the wings level one 'g' stall speed. If
you bank 45deg in level flight the stall speed increases by about 40 per
cent so if your wings level stall speed was 40kts at 45deg bank it
becomes about 56kts. Thus in this case a speed warning of 15kts before
the stall becomes no warning at all whereas a conventional stall warner
or AOA system will still provide the 5kt warning
Nigel Charles[/quote]
I think you will find that the stall speed increase is proportional to the square
root of the G loading and so in your example above the stall speed increases
by 20% to 48kts rather than by 40% to 56kts.
Nonetheless, the point you are making is a good one and I have already started
developing the next generation of SmartASS that will take into account the G loading
so as to provide the pilot with more warning margin.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53048#53048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Please, where does one find the required torque for the banjo fitting under
the sump of a two-year-old 941UL?
I HAVE looked, but somehow cannot find the reference - Lockwood or
Rotax...........
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
I really like the idea of the 'Smartass' and agree with the concept of AOA
being a better indication than IAS. The actual stall speed is easily
calculated by a simple triangle of forces i.e. the amount of 'lift' which is keeping
the aircraft in the air as opposed to that which is inducing a turn.
Incidentally 'when I were a lad!', being rash enough to fly in Sea Vixens,
we commonly practised spoken IAS by the observer on the approach, which was
also transmitted to Flyco at the same time. The approach speed was 128 knots
with normal landing all up weight . Being within 1 knot of that speed was
essential. 2 knots too slow and you likely hit the stern of the carrier and you
were dead. 2 knots too fast and you would 'float ' over the wires and have
to get power on quickly to go around again.
Not amusing at night on a pitching deck!
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
Okay, but how does all this relate to the standard stall warner as supplied
by Europa. An adjustable low-pressure switch which goes ON when pressure
changes to vacuum at the bottom of the leading edge. Very simple, cheap, and
should work at all speeds and attitudes, except maybe when inverted. Am I
wrong here ?
Karl
>From: BEBERRY(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:52:56 EDT
>
>I really like the idea of the 'Smartass' and agree with the concept of AOA
>being a better indication than IAS. The actual stall speed is easily
>calculated by a simple triangle of forces i.e. the amount of 'lift' which
>is keeping
>the aircraft in the air as opposed to that which is inducing a turn.
>
>Incidentally 'when I were a lad!', being rash enough to fly in Sea Vixens,
>we commonly practised spoken IAS by the observer on the approach, which was
>also transmitted to Flyco at the same time. The approach speed was 128
>knots
>with normal landing all up weight . Being within 1 knot of that speed was
>essential. 2 knots too slow and you likely hit the stern of the carrier
>and you
>were dead. 2 knots too fast and you would 'float ' over the wires and
>have
>to get power on quickly to go around again.
>
>Not amusing at night on a pitching deck!
>
>Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
Ferg
This should be the relevant document!
I have also sent it direct in case it gets stripped of Matt's forum,
Please, where does one find the required torque for the banjo fitting under
the sump of a two-year-old 941UL?
I HAVE looked, but somehow cannot find the reference - Lockwood or
Rotax...........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
You are quite right. A 40 per cent increase should be for a 60deg bank
turn. My mistake.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Burton
Sent: 07 August 2006 15:13
Subject: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
[quote="nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk"]It is important to realise with all
stall warning systems whether they
are giving you warnings above a nominated speed or whether they are
giving you a warning that you are approaching a critical AOA.
For example 5kts warning above a critical AOA is better than 15kts
warning above a speed which is the wings level one 'g' stall speed. If
you bank 45deg in level flight the stall speed increases by about 40 per
cent so if your wings level stall speed was 40kts at 45deg bank it
becomes about 56kts. Thus in this case a speed warning of 15kts before
the stall becomes no warning at all whereas a conventional stall warner
or AOA system will still provide the 5kt warning
Nigel Charles[/quote]
I think you will find that the stall speed increase is proportional to
the square root of the G loading and so in your example above the stall
speed increases by 20% to 48kts rather than by 40% to 56kts.
Nonetheless, the point you are making is a good one and I have already
started developing the next generation of SmartASS that will take into
account the G loading so as to provide the pilot with more warning
margin.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53048#53048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
The simple standard stall warner, like the small vane type that some of
us have, works on AOA so should always give a timely warning before the
stall whatever the bank or 'g' loading provided they are set up
accurately in the first place. However they are just like a switch
either on or off. A calibrated AOA gauge with audio as well gives
several stages of warnings both audio and visual. Monitoring an AOA
gauge during less critical flight situations helps to educate the pilot
what the margin is from the stall for different loadings. Which you
choose is up to you. Either way I think it is a wise precaution to have
at least the simple version as an extra layer of safety protection.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 07 August 2006 17:00
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
Okay, but how does all this relate to the standard stall warner as
supplied
by Europa. An adjustable low-pressure switch which goes ON when pressure
changes to vacuum at the bottom of the leading edge. Very simple, cheap,
and
should work at all speeds and attitudes, except maybe when inverted. Am
I
wrong here ?
Karl
>From: BEBERRY(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:52:56 EDT
>
>I really like the idea of the 'Smartass' and agree with the concept of
AOA
>being a better indication than IAS. The actual stall speed is easily
>calculated by a simple triangle of forces i.e. the amount of 'lift'
which
>is keeping
>the aircraft in the air as opposed to that which is inducing a turn.
>
>Incidentally 'when I were a lad!', being rash enough to fly in Sea
Vixens,
>we commonly practised spoken IAS by the observer on the approach, which
was
>also transmitted to Flyco at the same time. The approach speed was 128
>knots
>with normal landing all up weight . Being within 1 knot of that speed
was
>essential. 2 knots too slow and you likely hit the stern of the
carrier
>and you
>were dead. 2 knots too fast and you would 'float ' over the wires and
>have
>to get power on quickly to go around again.
>
>Not amusing at night on a pitching deck!
>
>Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kim Prout <kpaviat(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
The gearbox should be serviced by qualified personnel with proper equipment
.
Having said that, the equipment needed is a hydraulic press with the correc
t
mandrel to compress the disc springs that are used to =B3pre-load=B2 the
assembly against the driving dog hub. You can check the pre-load as part of
the normal inspection process. Lock the crankshaft in place and use a sprin
g
scale to pull the propeller back and forth to determine the sliding force
needed. The newest bulletin regarding this states the friction pre-load to
be higher than before. I can=B9t remember the bulletin numbers but check out
the Rotax list for that. If you have a slipper clutch, the check is similar
but I believe the pre-load values are different. You can get the exploded
views for the parts on line or check out the parts manual. The overhaul
manual provides details also.
When the gearbox is removed, you can easily check the condition of the
primary gear set.
Be sure to use the approved engine oil(s) that contain a gearing additive.
Rotax does not allow you to add your own gear oil to the motor oil.
Hope this helps!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kim Prout <kpaviat(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heaven's sake |
Typically, all the torque specifications are included in the Rotax Spare
Parts Manual along with the part numbers associated with the exploded views.
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
Thanks Kim.
I did check the friction torque at 200 hours as per Rotax manual and I
also have a 'tame' Rotax engineer who lives close to me so I have
checked with him. I am intending to re check the friction torque next
time I have the lid off the engine.
I use Shell VSX4 engine oil which is a motorbike oil as recommended by
Rotax which is suitable for engine and gearbox lube..
Thanks for the feedback.
Regards,
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kim Prout
Sent: 07 August 2006 21:28
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912S engine vibration
The gearbox should be serviced by qualified personnel with proper
equipment. Having said that, the equipment needed is a hydraulic press
with the correct mandrel to compress the disc springs that are used to
"pre-load" the assembly against the driving dog hub. You can check the
pre-load as part of the normal inspection process. Lock the crankshaft
in place and use a spring scale to pull the propeller back and forth to
determine the sliding force needed. The newest bulletin regarding this
states the friction pre-load to be higher than before. I can't remember
the bulletin numbers but check out the Rotax list for that. If you have
a slipper clutch, the check is similar but I believe the pre-load values
are different. You can get the exploded views for the parts on line or
check out the parts manual. The overhaul manual provides details also.
When the gearbox is removed, you can easily check the condition of the
primary gear set.
Be sure to use the approved engine oil(s) that contain a gearing
additive. Rotax does not allow you to add your own gear oil to the motor
oil.
Hope this helps!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: L.A. to Oshkosh 2006 and back |
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
Thomas...see indented comments and questions below:
On Sunday, August 6, 2006, at 09:32 PM, Thomas Scherer wrote:
> My eMail was actually written with the intent to re-concentrate on the
> joys of building and flying the Europa.
Thank you for accentuating the positive!
>> Lots of cracked Rotax cores and stalls lately.
Without doubt, the stall discussions are a consequence of our group's
attempts to get our arms around Cliff & Betty Shaw's tragic accident,
and as this occurs I trust that posts on "stalls and spins" will taper
off. As to "cracked Rotax cores", I'm only aware of a single isolated
case.
> I bought my Rotax 912 in 1995 and it has been in my Europa Classic
> Trigear since.
>
> I have in the entire time changed spark plugs twice and the rubber in
> the carburators once. I truly belive it is a very solid, tried and
> honest design. The same core is used on the 912, 912S and 914. I
> figure the 912 does have the most safety margin and least wear. It is
> imperative to keep it cool (I have a dual cooler setup).
Aha...perhaps (based on forum postings) the secret to your success
may lie in part in your engine being the 912, thus avoiding the
component stress and sensitivity to the higher compression 912S and
the complexity of the 914T?
> I always remind people of the Dykins design wing which is made for 120
> kn and does perform poorly at 160 kn and higher.
Not having the Dykins book, but recalling the Europa literature
stating "200 mph top speed", could you elaborate on your statement that
the Europa wing performs poorly at 160kn and higher?
Thanks,
Fred
A194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPurpura(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder cracks on 914? |
About 2 weeks ago when the OAT was over 100=B0F I had an over temp alarm on
my
EFIS for about 1 minute before the temps dropped back into normal range, the
next flight was 21 days later for 1.2 hrs. & the engine seemed a little rou
gh.
I pulled the plugs for a check & the lower sparkplug on the # 2 cylinder was
full of coolant,although no noticeable loss of coolant. Got to be a crack in
the head right?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stalls and spins |
I have the Europa stall-warner as well as Mark's Smartass and I believe they
both provide a different service. The stall-warner provides me with an
alarm at about 5 kts above the stall, so I can instantly unload the wing and
apply more power if necessary, whereas the Smartass helps me to monitor my
speed in critical situations and /or fly accurately at a selected speed
without looking at the panel.
Hope that helps,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
>
> The simple standard stall warner, like the small vane type that some of
> us have, works on AOA so should always give a timely warning before the
> stall whatever the bank or 'g' loading provided they are set up
> accurately in the first place. However they are just like a switch
> either on or off. A calibrated AOA gauge with audio as well gives
> several stages of warnings both audio and visual. Monitoring an AOA
> gauge during less critical flight situations helps to educate the pilot
> what the margin is from the stall for different loadings. Which you
> choose is up to you. Either way I think it is a wise precaution to have
> at least the simple version as an extra layer of safety protection.
>
> Nigel Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
> Sent: 07 August 2006 17:00
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
>
>
> Okay, but how does all this relate to the standard stall warner as
> supplied
> by Europa. An adjustable low-pressure switch which goes ON when pressure
>
> changes to vacuum at the bottom of the leading edge. Very simple, cheap,
> and
> should work at all speeds and attitudes, except maybe when inverted. Am
> I
> wrong here ?
>
> Karl
>
>
>>From: BEBERRY(at)aol.com
>>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stalls and spins
>>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:52:56 EDT
>>
>>I really like the idea of the 'Smartass' and agree with the concept of
> AOA
>>being a better indication than IAS. The actual stall speed is easily
>>calculated by a simple triangle of forces i.e. the amount of 'lift'
> which
>>is keeping
>>the aircraft in the air as opposed to that which is inducing a turn.
>>
>>Incidentally 'when I were a lad!', being rash enough to fly in Sea
> Vixens,
>>we commonly practised spoken IAS by the observer on the approach, which
> was
>>also transmitted to Flyco at the same time. The approach speed was 128
>
>>knots
>>with normal landing all up weight . Being within 1 knot of that speed
> was
>>essential. 2 knots too slow and you likely hit the stern of the
> carrier
>>and you
>>were dead. 2 knots too fast and you would 'float ' over the wires and
>
>>have
>>to get power on quickly to go around again.
>>
>>Not amusing at night on a pitching deck!
>>
>>Patrick
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
necessary?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
Hey Ron!
I have been flying the mono 5 years now and have not had a single incident
where
I forgot to put the gear down. It is the first thing I do on the landing
checklist and
I check it again on short final. The retract handle is also the up/down
indicator. Also,
the aircraft is very hard to slow down to 65 - 70 mph without dropping the
flaps and
you would never see the runway to do the approach (unless you were doing 100
plus!)
I think one would have to get extremely confused to blow it but maybe
someone could
manage it! I did have one takeoff where I forgot to retract the flaps/gear
but I climbed
1000 ft easily before noticing. I also have no stall warner or stall strips
although I think the
talking ASI would be nice.
Glenn
>From: <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:04:48 -0000
>
>
>Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
>
>I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
>read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
>you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
>
>What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
>
>Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
>necessary?
>
>Thx.
>Ron Parigoris
>
>Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
I use 3 microswitches on the main gear lever (one to sense gear up, one
to sense gear down and one to confirm the down lock is engaged). I also
have microswitches on the outriggers to sense when the legs are locked
down. I have 4 warning lights (one red to show gear unlocked, one green
for main gear locked down and a pair of lights to indicate each
outrigger locked down) The lights are mounted in the rear of the gear
lever slot. They are easily seen from the left seat and the recess
ensures that the lights are not affected by strong sunlight.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: 08 August 2006 08:05
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up
because
you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
necessary?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinder cracks on 914? |
Definitely sounds like it!!! Make sure you check the hardness of the
head
when you remove them and the security of the valve seats,
Are you using the Evans coolant? Or 50% antifreeze mix,
Regards
Ivor
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SPurpura(at)aol.com
Sent: 08 August 2006 02:26
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cylinder cracks on 914?
About 2 weeks ago when the OAT was over 100=B0F I had an over temp alarm
on my
EFIS for about 1 minute before the temps dropped back into normal range,
the
next flight was 21 days later for 1.2 hrs. & the engine seemed a little
rough. I pulled the plugs for a check & the lower sparkplug on the # 2
cylinder was full of coolant,although no noticeable loss of coolant. Got
to
be a crack in the head right?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net> |
| Subject: | Air Box Falling Off |
Hi All,
I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the
tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to
collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box
come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the
back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and
one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top
of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is
there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the
connection to the carbs?
I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the
over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats
mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum
opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and
less pressure is placed on the top of the box.
All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any
help!
Jeff
A258 Flying off the 40
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Air Box Falling Off |
Hi Jeff, Bond in some short pieces of aluminum tubing for the clamping area.
It's a combination of pressure (clamps) and heat.
Jim Thursby
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off
Hi All,
I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the
tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to
collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box
come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the
back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and
one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top
of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is
there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the
connection to the carbs?
I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the
over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats
mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum
opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and
less pressure is placed on the top of the box.
All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any
help!
Jeff
A258 Flying off the 40
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 08/07/06 |
In a message dated 8/8/2006 12:00:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:
From: "nigel charles" <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stalls and spins
It is important to realise with all stall warning systems whether they
are giving you warnings above a nominated speed or whether they are
giving you a warning that you are approaching a critical AOA.
For example 5kts warning above a critical AOA is better than 15kts
warning above a speed which is the wings level one 'g' stall speed. If
you bank 45deg in level flight the stall speed increases by about 40 per
cent so if your wings level stall speed was 40kts at 45deg bank it
becomes about 56kts. Thus in this case a speed warning of 15kts before
the stall becomes no warning at all whereas a conventional stall warner
or AOA system will still provide the 5kt warning
Nigel Charles
Nigel,
Excellent comments, This is exactly why I produce an AOA system, an AOA is
correct under ALL conditions, it will warn you of the AOA, in our instrument
an audio announcement will advise when about 5% under the minimum approach
speed. Stall warning devices are like closing the door after the cows are out.
To late with to little. An AOA will give proper warning when a trend is
apparent, warning 5 or so below the min approach speed, then the stall warning
5
above the stall. In the US the stall warning certification has one
stipulation ~~ be at least 5 Kts above stall. I've flown some aircraft where
the
stall warning is coming on at 20 above the stall, the owners totally ignore it,
then get into another aircraft and wham~~ enough said.
Elbie
EM Aviation
_www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info> |
| Subject: | Air Box Falling Off |
Hi Jeff
I had the same problem last year. I cut off the collapsed tube from the
airbox and replaced it with some aluminium tube glassed into position. No
further problems in nearly 100 hours and you can do the clamps up as tight
as you like.
Regards
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Naylor" <jimnaylor.44(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
Yes I know of three wheels up landings, and actually witnessed one. Also got
close to doing it myself, but fortunately realised the 'picture' was not
right. If the runway is on an up slope, then the view can look like a normal
approach attitude with the gear and flaps down. I saw this happen on a grass
strip. The pilot said everything looked normal on the approach, and didn't
know anything was wrong until the crunch happened. Also know of two
incidents where wheels up landings happened after distractions - bulked
landings, bad weather etc.
I have designed a system using a pressure switch (same as the one used in
the factory stall Warner) connected to a separate pitot tube. The pressure
switch operates a buzzer if the air speed falls below 70kts with the gear
retracted. A micro switch fitted to the landing gear cuts out the buzzer if
the gear is down. Simple and very effective - almost idiot proof!
Jim Naylor
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:04 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>
> Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
>
> I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
> read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
> you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
>
> What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
>
> Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
> necessary?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Box Falling Off |
Thanks Guys! I don't know why I didn't think of that. Going after some
tubing now.
Jeff
A258 Trying to find time to fly off the 40
On Aug 8, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Pete Lawless wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff
>
> I had the same problem last year. I cut off the collapsed tube from
> the
> airbox and replaced it with some aluminium tube glassed into position.
> No
> further problems in nearly 100 hours and you can do the clamps up as
> tight
> as you like.
>
> Regards
>
> Pete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Heindl" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Air Box Falling Off |
Jeff,
Exactly the same kept happening to me. The airbox tubes simply aren't strong
enough, and you can't really tell when they are collapsing.
I have a very simple fix: get a piece of 1 7/8th inch alu tube, cut off two
short pieces and jam them into the inside of the tubes. ACS will sell you
12" for a few dollars.
To ensure that the airbox never comes off, I also jammed a piece of blue
foam between the box and the firewall.
Hope that makes sense.
Karl
>From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off
>Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:16:19 -0500
>
>
>Hi All,
>I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes
>that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse
>from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from
>the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the
>motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires
>eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the
>912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of
>connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs?
>I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the
>over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats
>mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum
>opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less
>pressure is placed on the top of the box.
>All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help!
>Jeff
>A258 Flying off the 40
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Ingram" <robust_design(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis |
Richard,
I don't know if my emails get beyond my computer, but here goes:
Ignition could be the problem. It takes higher voltage to arc across
higher pressure fuel mix.
If the ignition coil or distributor cap or rotor or wires have
conductive "dirt" on them, the spark may jump along the short circuit
rather than through the spark plug.
In a borderline situation, a higher throttle setting increases the
combustion pressure enough to force the voltage to a higher level before
arcing, and the higher voltage causes the current to take a short
circuit across the deteriorated surface of the distributor cap, etc.
Reducing the throttle reduces the plug gap voltage required, and the
engine runs normally.
Now why this should occur 1 1/2 hrs into cruise, or at higher altitudes,
I can not guess. Heat distribution?
Your troubleshooting has eliminated the likelyhood of it being a pump or
plug problem.
I have no experience with the Rotax, but in a different engine, I'd
replace the distributor cap and rotor.
Donald Ingram
xs mono
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schultz
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Box Falling Off |
< .... so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less pressure
> is placed on the top of the box.
>>
I had in mind doing that by means of leaving off the rubber sealing tongue
that contacts the top of the airbox, but in order to use any "surplus" air
for general cooling of the under-cowl/electrics and to allow automatic
venting of trapped hot air after shutdown. The loss in recovered pressure to
the air box is probably negligible as the cowl is already pressurised from
the forward facing nostrils (less what is lost through the exits). No
results yet or confirmation that the flow through the NACA doesn't reverse
at high AoA..
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff(at)rmmm.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off
>
> Hi All,
> I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes
> that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse
> from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from
> the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the
> motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires
> eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the
> 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of
> connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs?
> I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the
> over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats
> mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum
> opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less
> pressure is placed on the top of the box.
> All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help!
> Jeff
<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "karelvranken" <karelvranken(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Box Falling Off |
Jeff,
It's a question of temperature and clamp pressure. Note that the tubes are
slightly conic. I found the whole box of pour design. I toke a negative of
it in two halves.
Then I made a new box with a mix of carbon and glass and I insert an
aluminium tube to match the carb intake. Carbon is conductive that is
whatfore I make a layer of glass in contact with the aluminium.
Great pleasure in building,
Karel Vranken. # 447 Mono XS Rotax 912S Airmaster CSU F-PKRL final control
september 7th.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff(at)rmmm.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off
>
> Hi All,
> I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes
> that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse
> from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from
> the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the
> motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires
> eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the
> 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of
> connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs?
> I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the
> over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats
> mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum
> opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less
> pressure is placed on the top of the box.
> All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help!
> Jeff
> A258 Flying off the 40
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rman <topglock(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Box Falling Off |
Jeff,
Exactly the same problem, here. Drove a large socket into the hole to
expand the crushed glass, then added one layer of bid to the outside.
After that cured, I added three layers of bid to the inside. Problem
solved...
Don't close the air duct. You need all the air you can get, to those
carbs...
Jeff - Baby Blue
200 hours and the first annual is in the books...
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the
> tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to
> collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box
> come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the
> back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and
> one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top
> of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is
> there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the
> connection to the carbs?
> I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from
> the over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum
> thats mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the
> plenum opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine
> area and less pressure is placed on the top of the box.
> All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any
> help!
> Jeff
> A258 Flying off the 40
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPurpura(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder cracks on 914? |
I am using the Evans coolant and I think I'll pull off the gear box and send
it to Lockwood as it has 350+hrs on it and KP recommends interim service for
extended life.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stewart <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com> |
Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk> |
Paul, My inspector advised using a red coloured mastic that plumbers use for
sealing gaps around boiler flues, which is heat resistant. Unfortunately I
can't remember the name but asking at a plumber's merchant would no doubt
produce a suitable product. It has worked well for me, proving easy to use
on holes and gaps of all sizes, and has lasted 4 yrs without problem.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stewart" <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Europa-List: firewall
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free.
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnDHeykoop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 09/08/2006 08:06:56 GMT Standard Time,
europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com writes:
Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Paul
I have been advised to use Heatmate paste, which is available from Screwfix.
Regards
John
G-JHKP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
Phil Lockwood's Annual seminar on 912/914 maintainence at Oshkosk touched
on the issue of fuel
filters. He said (paraphrasing):
1) Immediately get rid of paper element filters
2) Gascolators are best option (personally I wait on removing the Europa
filters until all the swarf of spun polypropylene is out)
3) There is nothing wrong with the plastic element in-glass filters
supplied by Europa
He also commented that while the Rotax factory allows 5% alcohol mogas, his
shop has seen
no problems with the 10% alcohol mix in the essentially all (at least
seasonally US mogas.
This does not rule out cheap, ethanol or methanol sensitive fuel hoses.
Much of the rest of the talk was carried over from prior years
Ira, N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graeme Smith <graeme(at)gcsmith.flyer.co.uk> |
I used RTV736 high temperature silicone sealant, available from Skydrive
Graeme Smith
No 26
Paul Stewart wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> --This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon AOA Pitot and AOA, has anyone installed? |
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Has anyone installed a Dynon Pitot / AOA probe on short wing?
How does the AOA and Pitot work?
How does the AOA deal with flaps retracted ot extended?
What location did you mount on wing, what mount used, does it work with
monowheel trailer/
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stewart <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com> |
Thanks to all foro the advice
Paul
G-GIDY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
Also 3M do a fire barrier sealant CP25WB, Apparently it been tested up to
four hours, So you would have run out of fuel by then, Depending on the size
of the fire :-)
I used RTV736 high temperature silicone sealant, available from Skydrive
Graeme Smith
No 26
Paul Stewart wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> --This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel supply reliability discussion |
Dear Europaphiles,
There was some recent discussion regarding blocked fuel filters during
early test flying on the Europa. Some of these stories have happy
endings, others have resulted in accidents. Before I flew my plane in
2001, there had already been quite a lot of discussion on this same
subject and I had concluded that if the Rotax 912/912S/914 is supplied
with fuel, it will generally run without trouble. If one has dirty fuel
for whatever reason, any filter system will block eventually. I
therefore looked for a system which would (1) provide an alarm if there
was a loss of fuel pressure at the carbs and (2) provide an alarm when I
was low on fuel (4 gallons say).
I am sure that there are many ways to achieve these objectives, but my
installation is a Grand Rapids EIS with a fuel pressure sensor which is
located between the engine mechanical pump and the carburetors. The
pressure alarm is set at 0.5 psi. My fuel filter is an Andair GAS125
mini gascolator and contrary to the experience of others, I have never
found more than very minor trash in the bowl. I have no idea why I have
seen so little trash and no slime when others have had significant
stoppages. I installed the filter under the baggage bay shelf. I also
have the fuel flow sensor and totaliser option which gives accurate
indication of consumption and when the '4.0 gallons remaining' alarm
goes off, I know I need to look for a fuel stop. I have tank level
capacitance gauges so I can always cross check.
In 500 hours, I have only had the fuel pressure alarm go off once
(apparently due to an air bubble in the system after some fuel hose
replacements - the problem cleared when I switched on the electric
pump). I have never checked the interval from low fuel pressure alarm
and lack of fuel to engine stop but I believe it is approximately 20
seconds; this is quite short but at least it gives a brief warning of
impending stop.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel supply reliability discussion |
John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
> I am sure that there are many ways to achieve these objectives, but my
> installation is a Grand Rapids EIS with a fuel pressure sensor which
> is located between the engine mechanical pump and the carburetors.
> The pressure alarm is set at 0.5 psi. My fuel filter is an Andair
> GAS125 mini gascolator and contrary to the experience of others, I
> have never found more than very minor trash in the bowl. I have no
> idea why I have seen so little trash and no slime when others have had
> significant stoppages. I installed the filter under the baggage bay
> shelf. I also have the fuel flow sensor and totaliser option which
> gives accurate indication of consumption and when the '4.0 gallons
> remaining' alarm goes off, I know I need to look for a fuel stop. I
> have tank level capacitance gauges so I can always cross check.
>
> Cheers, John
John
I think your choice is a wise one, although I would use the GAS 375 for
a 914 installation, the recirculation results in much higher fuel flows
which has been known to block a GAS125 with very fine rust
particles.(from a jerry can) The mesh is 120 micron (from memory) which
is smaller than the mesh in a "Mr Funnel" filter funnel. Both will stop
water.
Andair told me the Rotax specify filter smaller than 100 mu. and 120 is
the nearest available.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tony.bale(at)virgin.net" <tony.bale(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
Ron,
We now have 130 plus hours with our mono and have never really considered
gear lights, to begin with this was a concern to me as I fly a Piper Arrow
and have lots of horns lights and auto systems to remind me. However, you
would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out, ofcourse as you
are also decending it makes speed control / reduction even more of a
challenge.
As an aside and purely in my experience and opinion, watch out with adding
all the whistles and bells, the weight of the aircraft will increase
dramatically with little effort.
Regards
Tony.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:04:48 -0000
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
necessary?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
________________________________________________________________________________
Paul Stewart a crit :
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Paul,
You'll find some information here :
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_cpf.php
English translation will appear...some day.
It seems that not all product used in ultralights or kitplanes are
really meant to resist flame as firewall compounds should. Always make
sure you check the manufacturer specs.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Ira,
> 1) Immediately get rid of paper element filters
>
Did he gave the rationale about this advice ?
Too low filtering power ?
Too easily clogged ?
After all, millions of four-stroke road vehicles, and thousands of
airplanes are running with paper filters and without any problem.
Or wasn't he talking about two-stroke engines ? Paper filters are a
no-no for two-strokes, due to the oil in the fuel blocking the filtering
element.
But what did he find wrong with paper filters in a four-stroke ?
> 2) Gascolators are best option
We're using an Andair gascolator too.
Thanks,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
Tony
there are a couple of very experienced RAF trained pilots who have
managed to "wheels up" a mono. I suspect through doing a severe sideslip
and forgetting what was going on?
You're right thought, the view over the nose at landing speed with flaps
up should tell anyone something isn't right
Graham
> However, you
>would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
>and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
>the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
>sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out,
>Tony.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
Ron Parigoris
http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
plane.
In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
aileron, so you basically lose that too.
The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
See very cool video here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Friedland" <96victor(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
Thanks Ron
The video of the skidded turn is great! I was first taught 50 years ago to
always coordinate turns. No reason was given that an emphasis was placed on
landing pattern turns sans the reason why. I have always tried to
coordinate turns at all times and was not aware of the problem at low
speeds.
I am not quite flying but I would like to hear the experience of you fly
guys or girls if you practice it in landing configuration at altitude. I
will practice it when I fly, not just for my own learning but for others
that I can preach to..
Tom XS/mono/Jab/airmaster/RiteAngleAoA/N96victor/EllensburgWA
On 8/9/06, rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
>
>
> Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
>
> The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
> stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
> tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
> plane.
>
> In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
> no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
> part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
> aileron, so you basically lose that too.
>
> The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
> before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
> uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
>
> See very cool video here.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
| From: | <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hello Tom
"The video of the skidded turn is great!"
Try these too:
http://www.apstraining.com/newsletterlist.htm
I guess this forum should be renamed Training 101.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
Ron and All,
I can appreciate what happens in an uncoordinated turns when the A/C is
"skidding", i.e. bottom rudder, but I have always been led to believe (and
from my personal experience), that a "slipping" turn, i.e. top rudder, is a
safe manoeuvre and a good way to lose height rapidly. Also a straight side
slip, perhaps on finals to lose more height than flaps alone will generate,
i.e. crossed controls, is safe provided the nose is raised after the
controls are crossed and lowered before the controls are centred. I was
instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) without any
problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to enter a spin from
crossed controls, because the inside wing is leading. Has anyone else been
instructed or has instructed this as well, power or gliding?
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:17 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
>
> Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
>
> The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
> stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
> tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
> plane.
>
> In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
> no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
> part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
> aileron, so you basically lose that too.
>
> The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
> before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
> uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
>
> See very cool video here.
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <william(at)wrmills.plus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
Tony,
I know of five monos that have landed wheel up and two of those pilots had
over 1000 hours in their Europas when it happened, so I recommend an
"undercarriage not down" warning for peace of mind if nothing else.
I have Jim Naylor's system of a warning siren at below 70 kts and it works
very well. Thank you Jim. Before that I had micro switches on both under
carriage and throttle, so that if you closed the throttle when the wheel is
not down the siren activated, but that can be annoying when you are not
landing! However, better than nothing.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <tony.bale(at)virgin.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>
>
> Ron,
> We now have 130 plus hours with our mono and have never really considered
> gear lights, to begin with this was a concern to me as I fly a Piper Arrow
> and have lots of horns lights and auto systems to remind me. However, you
> would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
> and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
> the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
> sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out, ofcourse as you
> are also decending it makes speed control / reduction even more of a
> challenge.
>
> As an aside and purely in my experience and opinion, watch out with adding
> all the whistles and bells, the weight of the aircraft will increase
> dramatically with little effort.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:04:48 -0000
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>
>
> Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
>
> I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
> read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
> you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
>
> What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
>
> Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
> necessary?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
I just asked my instructor of 30 yrs last week about this and he said that
the stall/spin
entry occurs on the base to final turn because a lot of pilots are afraid
of using too much
bank angle When they get to the bank angle they're comfortable with and
still need some more to make the turn, they will use bottom rudder to
tighten the
turn without banking more, causing the stall just like on the video.
My instructor also said it is safe to use top rudder causing a slipping
turn because even
if a stall occurs, the high outside wing will stall first, then only causing
the stalled wing
to return to level. This can be then caught in time to stop a spin entry to
July 27, 2006 - August 10, 2006
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-fm