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December 17, 2010 - February 02, 2011

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323668#323668 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Dec 17, 2010
Many thanks for the replies. Sounds like a very good recommendation, question answered! Regards, Jon (ps Kevin - it's a new engine installation into an existing (previously flying) plane!) -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323687#323687 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Icing: 912S versus 912
From: "jpg12305" <jpg.comm(at)laposte.net>
Date: Dec 17, 2010
Bonjour Jean-Philippe, This could be a good bar discussion, fueled by liters of beer... What is strange here is that flight conditions were apparently not suited for a significant risk of icing. Negative OAT and 8C difference with DP makes a quite dry atmosphere. There could have been anyway a layer close to saturation in altitude, but I am pretty sure that in the 125h flight hours life of the engine, real potential carb icing conditions have been encountered apparently without issue. The rough running could have been related to something else. I share your question about why 912S may be more prone to carb icing. One reason of temperature drop in the carb is fuel vaporisation. The higher fuel flow of the 912S may let think about more risk of icing? And to my level of knowledge of CV carburettors, this means a higher depression around the diffuser lowering temperature there as well. Open discussion..... Anyway I stopped worrying about all that two months ago by installing the Skydrive carb heat kit. My peace of mind increased a bit..... Jean-Paul Europa 332 LFEF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323706#323706 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2010
From: Michel AUVRAY <mau11(at)free.fr>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
Le 17/12/2010 20:15, Jeff B a crit : > > Jon, > > Your friend is correct the 680 is a fine choice... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > On 12/17/2010 10:55 AM, JonSmith wrote: >> --> Europa-List message posted by: >> "JonSmith" >> >> Hi all, >> >> I need to buy a battery for my aircraft but don't know much about >> them! A friend recommended the Odyssey battery and I know that some >> people have fitted them to their Europas. >> >> My question is - which model is suited best to the Europa >> application? When I googled Odyssey there was a perplexing array of >> models/ sizes etc available. My friend's one is a PC 680. Is that >> considered to be a good "all rounder" and suitable for the Europa or >> are there better, more suited ones available. I don't want to buy >> the wrong one! >> >> Thanks in advance, Regards, >> >> Jon >> >> -------- >> G-TERN >> Classic Mono >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323668#323668 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Hi all, I used an Odyssey PC545 since two years, and now with 912S, this battery is perfect. No problem Good day -- Michel AUVRAY l -----(*)----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem?
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Dec 18, 2010
Thank you to those who have responded (on and off list) with suggestions I have already tested.... with limited success. Either they have not read my post or they do not believe me when I said I have tried EVERYTHING! My plan now is to purchase the tooling and rework my flywheel hub to copy the new part introduced by Rotax. I will let you know how it works. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323735#323735 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
From: "John Price" <nicolaprice(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Dec 18, 2010
We have a classic monowheel with rotax 912 and fitted a Sonnenschein A512 gel battery. The last one lasted about 8 years before replacement. You could probably find one for about 75 inc VAT and shipping. Good luck. John Price. G-SHSH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323736#323736 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem?
Date: Dec 18, 2010
Remi=2C The fact that Rotax found it necessary to address the problem speaks for it self.During these winter months=2C if you are flying=2C you get a guarantee d smooth start by preheating the engine.You may be doing this anyway=2C but I used a hairdryer on the low setting=2C and stuck it into the opening jus t below the spinner for about 15 minutes. Karl > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem ? > From: air.guerner(at)orange.fr > Date: Sat=2C 18 Dec 2010 03:08:47 -0800 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > > > Thank you to those who have responded (on and off list) with suggestions I have already tested.... with limited success. Either they have not read m y post or they do not believe me when I said I have tried EVERYTHING! > > My plan now is to purchase the tooling and rework my flywheel hub to copy the new part introduced by Rotax. > I will let you know how it works. > > Remi > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323735#323735 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem?
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Dec 19, 2010
Karl, I agree that preheating using the hairdryer method is what works best in winter. I have written an article on preheating which will be published in the Europa Flyer soon. Regards Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323797#323797 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Blue Mountain
Date: Dec 20, 2010
I have received the following message from Europa - can anyone assist please? Regards Steve Pitt From: Geoff Carter <mail@geoff-carter.com> Date: 18 December 2010 11:47 Subject: Blue Mountain Avionics Hello Chatting to one of your members who tells me that BMA products were quite favoured by Europa flyers? I have an RV9a with an EFIS 1 G3 - which was owned by a chap who's flying buddy was a Europa owner. I'm looking for a replacement CPU for our unit which may be available if any of the Europa users have removed a BMA from their aircraft and have parts for sale. I couldn't access your wants and adds part of the site so an email may help you direct me to the correct section or you may know of someone with this part? Regards ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Blue Mountain
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Geoff might want to check in at the Blue Mountain web site and look for the address of a business set up to repair / replace BMA units http://bluemountainavionics.com/talk good hunting -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323908#323908 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: FW: Happy Xmas from Motorworks
Date: Dec 21, 2010
Anyone looking for a cheap Odyssey battery =93 they are on special offer here. From: Motorworks BMW Specialists [mailto:noreply(at)motorworks.co.uk] Sent: 21 December 2010 12:56 Subject: Happy Xmas from Motorworks <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYGRAlTGFcDDQQH> Motorworks BMW motorcycle parts and accessories <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYGRAlTGFcDDQQH> <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYGRAlTGFcDDQQH> Motorworks logo The UK's leading independent BMW motorcycle parts and accessories supplier Established 1989 Mail order fast Hi This is the time of year when your bike battery gets a hard time so until the end of the year we're offering 20% off Odyssey PC680 <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYHRAlTGFcDDQQH> and PC535GS <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYIRAlTGFcDDQQH> batteries ordered online. Don't delay though because you've only got a couple of weeks to take advantage of this offer. Even if your bike is laid up over winter, fitting an Odyssey will ensure it starts when you're ready to ride again in spring. 20% off Odyssey PC680 and PC535GS <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/bmw/images/email/PC680.jpg> Our sales team will be here right up until 1pm on Christmas Eve. They're then having a well earned break until Tuesday January 4th. During this holiday period you can of course place orders using our website <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYJRAlTGFcDDQQH> . Orders placed on the website will be sent on our return. We also wanted to remind you that VAT goes up to 20% on the 4th of January so order now to save yourself 2.5% on January 2011 prices. beat the vat increase! <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/bmw/images/email/VATincrease.jpg> Lastly, would you like to work for Motorworks? We want to hear from you if you'd like to work with us. Send an email to vacancies(at)motorworks.co.uk with your CV and a covering letter explaining what you can offer us. We'd like to thank you for your custom and wish you all the best for 2011 All at Motorworks Privacy Policy <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcARAlTGFcDDQQH> | Terms and Conditions <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcBRAlTGFcDDQQH> Motorworks LLP is a company registered in England and Wales Address: The Old School House, Meltham Mills Road, Meltham, Holmfirth, Huddersfield, West Yorkshire HD9 4AT Company number: OC303301 VAT registration no: 516 3608 56 +44 (0) 1484 353600 or 0845 458 0077 (local rate) fax +44 (0) 1484 353604 (local rate) Home <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVYGRAlTGFcDDQQH> | New products <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcCRAlTGFcDDQQH> | Second hand products <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcDRAlTGFcDDQQH> | Bikes just in for breaking <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcERAlTGFcDDQQH> | Bikes for sale <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcFRAlTGFcDDQQH> <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/ut.php?u=bd7163cdd8be073168d8d15e73b bcb14&m> -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, this link <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcGRAlTGFcDDQQH> Forward a Message to Someone this link <http://www.motorworks.co.uk/lists/lt.php?id=K0UHUVIABVcHRAlTGFcDDQQH> <http://www.phplist.com> Powered by PHPlist2.10.10, =C2=A9 tincan ltd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2010
Subject: Type of Paint for my Europa
From: John Greenhalgh <john.greenhalgh1(at)sky.com>
Hi everyone, Can anyone recommend the filler and paint to use. The Europa build manual says 'The paint systems we recommend are the two pack acrylic or polyurethane. Theses systems use an isocyanate to cross link the paint molecules to give a very tough finish and ultra violet protection.' I am in the UK so I would like to find a supplier local. Any guidance would be most welcome. Regards John (G-WIKI) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "craig bastin" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>
Subject: Type of Paint for my Europa
Date: Dec 23, 2010
Just a word to the wise, Isocyanate, is highly toxic to some, and great care should be taken in its use, if you are thinking of spraying your baby yourself. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Greenhalgh Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: Type of Paint for my Europa Hi everyone, Can anyone recommend the filler and paint to use. The Europa build manual says 'The paint systems we recommend are the two pack acrylic or polyurethane. Theses systems use an isocyanate to cross link the paint molecules to give a very tough finish and ultra violet protection.' I am in the UK so I would like to find a supplier local. Any guidance would be most welcome. Regards John (G-WIKI) Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steade" <steade(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Type of Paint for my Europa
Date: Dec 23, 2010
John I used Aerodur white topcoat and Barrier Primer supplied by "Pexa, Springwood Business Park, Burrwood Way, Holywell Green, West Yorkshire, HX4 9BJ tel 01422 314400 Regards David Steade ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: test
Date: Dec 23, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Garmin GTX 320
Date: Dec 23, 2010
Does anyone have a copy of the Installation Manual for the Garmin GTX 320 transponder. I cannot find one from the usual sources. Thanks. Mike G-CFMP Mono ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com>
Subject: Type of Paint for my Europa
Date: Dec 23, 2010
I bought mine from the factory. They were able to provide a full paint and filler kit. Everything needed. Richard Iddon. G-RIXS Hi everyone, Can anyone recommend the filler and paint to use. The Europa build manual says 'The paint systems we recommend are the two pack acrylic or polyurethane. Theses systems use an isocyanate to cross link the paint molecules to give a very tough finish and ultra violet protection.' I am in the UK so I would like to find a supplier local. Any guidance would be most welcome. Regards John (G-WIKI) Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
Subject: Garmin GTX 320
Date: Dec 23, 2010
Mike, I have the =94GTX 320 Installation & Operation Manual.=94 I will be pleased to mail a copy to you from Oslo tomorrow (subject to hearing from you before they close due to Christmas) or on Monday. Please e-mail your address off-list. If there is any section you wish to read soonest, please specify and I will send by e-mail. /////// Everyone, Best wishes for the holidays and a peaceful, happy new year. Thank you all for the company on this list also this year. Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ Fra: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Mike Gamble Sendt: 23. desember 2010 15:56 Til: europa-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Emne: Europa-List: Garmin GTX 320 Does anyone have a copy of the Installation Manual for the Garmin GTX 320 transponder. I cannot find one from the usual sources. Thanks. Mike G-CFMP Mono ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info>
Subject: Garmin GTX 320
Date: Dec 23, 2010
Paste the string below in to google there is a downloadable pdf on <http://www.ultraligerosmallorca.com/> www.ultraligerosmallorca.com/ they came at the top of the list on my browser. =93garmin gtx 320 installation manual=94 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: 23 December 2010 15:57 Subject: SV: Europa-List: Garmin GTX 320 Mike, I have the =94GTX 320 Installation & Operation Manual.=94 I will be pleased to mail a copy to you from Oslo tomorrow (subject to hearing from you before they close due to Christmas) or on Monday. Please e-mail your address off-list. If there is any section you wish to read soonest, please specify and I will send by e-mail. /////// Everyone, Best wishes for the holidays and a peaceful, happy new year. Thank you all for the company on this list also this year. Best regards, Svein LN-SKJ Fra: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Mike Gamble Sendt: 23. desember 2010 15:56 Til: europa-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com Emne: Europa-List: Garmin GTX 320 Does anyone have a copy of the Installation Manual for the Garmin GTX 320 transponder. I cannot find one from the usual sources. Thanks. Mike G-CFMP Mono www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2010
Subject: Re: Garmin GTX 320
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Mike, You can find what your looking for here : http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/ Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2010
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Covered trailer
Hi all and merry Christmas, Iwould likemore space in my workshop, so I am looking to buy a covered trailer to store wings etc while working on other parts, Europa special trailer would be perfect , failing that if anyone is disposing of any suitable storage trailer I would be interested, or if you are not using yours over winter could I hire it ? Many thanks Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nigel henry <gbupa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Covered trailer
Date: Dec 23, 2010
I think Kevin is opening a factory ! lol Merry Christmas xxx > Date: Thu=2C 23 Dec 2010 22:32:20 +0000 > From: kjburns(at)btinternet.com > Subject: Europa-List: Covered trailer > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hi all and merry Christmas=2C > > I would like more space in my workshop=2C so I am looking to buy a covere d trailer > to store wings etc while working on other parts=2C Europa special traile r would > be perfect =2C failing that if anyone is disposing of any suitable storag e trailer > I would be interested=2C or if you are not using yours over winter could I hire it > ? > > Many thanks > > Kevin > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2010
From: jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Subject: Seats
I am at the point of installing seats.=C2- I notice that Wicks has a seat available for a reasonable price.=C2- Has anyone used any of the pre-man ufactured seats?=C2- If so, which ones and how pleased are you?=C2- I h ave talked to a couple of people who can make them, and have seen several p osts from people who have carved their own.=C2- If I do buy one, I may wa nt to replace it with a custom fit seat in the future.=C2- I have used Zolotone on the interior, so am fairly close to flying.=C2- I primarily want something fast and easy. Jim Puglise A-283, XS - painted and cleaning up lots of details ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2010
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Covered trailer
Nigel,=0A=0ANeed trailer to re-organise my wee factory,=0A-m, lady return s after Christmas and-I want to reduce the shock of Epoxy warming =0Anext to heaters, Glasscloth snuggled against radiators and boxes of bits being =0Asorted in to groups on the coffee table using curry tuppaware-recyclin g,(back to =0Awork now after the food poisoning) -removing the wings-fr om the living room =0Ashould do it!=0ASupose I could just fit a high level -TV,s so she can see it over-wings!=0AFinished insulating garage, now l ets see who,s-finished with their-space =0Aheaters?=0A=0AKevin=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: nigel henry <gbupa(at)hotmail.com> =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, 23 December, 2010 23:47: 22=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Covered trailer=0A=0AI think Kevin is openin g a factory ! lol -Merry Christmas xxx - -=0A=0A> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2 t: Covered trailer=0A> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0A> =0A> --> Europa-Li st message posted by: K BURNS =0A> =0A> Hi all and merry Christmas,=0A> =0A> I-would like-more space in my workshop, so I am looking to buy a covered =0A>trailer =0A>=0A> to store wings etc while w orking on other parts,- Europa special trailer would =0A=0A> be perfect , failing that if anyone is disposing of any suitable storage =0A>trailer =0A>=0A> I would be interested, or if you are not using yours over winter c ould I hire =0A>it =0A>=0A> ?=0A> =0A> Many thanks=0A> =0A> Ke==== ====================0A&g==== ===================== =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nigel henry <gbupa(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Covered trailer
Date: Dec 24, 2010
I have a Westfield 7 Half finished in the Bedroom ! Nigel Date: Fri=2C 24 Dec 2010 03:20:15 +0000 From: kjburns(at)btinternet.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Covered trailer Nigel=2C Need trailer to re-organise my wee factory=2C m=2C lady returns after Christmas and I want to reduce the shock of Epoxy warming next to heaters=2C Glasscloth snuggled against radiators and boxes of bits being sorted in to groups on the coffee table using curry tuppaware recycling=2C(back to work now after the food poisoning) removing the wing s from the living room should do it! Supose I could just fit a high level TV=2Cs so she can see it over wings! Finished insulating garage=2C now lets see who=2Cs finished with their spac e heaters? Kevin From: nigel henry <gbupa(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday=2C 23 December=2C 2010 23:47:22 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Covered trailer I think Kevin is opening a factory ! lol Merry Christmas xxx > Date: Thu=2C 23 Dec 2010 22:32:20 +0000 > From: kjburns(at)btinternet.com > Subject: Europa-List: Covered trailer > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hi all and merry Christmas=2C > > I would like more space in my workshop=2C so I am looking to buy a covere d trailer > to store wings etc while working on other parts=2C Europa special traile r would > be perfect =2C failing that if anyone is disposing of any suitable storag e trailer > I would be interested=2C or if you are not using yours over winter could I hire it > ? > > Many thanks > > Ke====================== &g============ > > > ww" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europ a-========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Parts for Sale
Date: Dec 24, 2010
Note from Nigel Charles:- I am in the process of a panel upgrade on my RV8 and have some instruments I need to pass on. I thought some of them might be of interest to Europa owners. I intend donating any money raised to the 'Help for Heroes' charity so I haven't priced any items. I just ask potential purchasers offer as generously as they feel appropriate. As a guideline it would be reasonable to expect at least 25% of the new price for any given item. Instruments for Sale Becker transponder ATC 4401-1(with antenna) GPS Bendix/King Skymap IIIc(with panel rack and antenna) Fuel Contents (Electronics International LED analogue & LCD digital) Standby compass ASI VSI DI (air driven) AH (air driven) Suction gauge T&S (electric) RPM (with sender drive) Manifold pressure Oil Pressure Oil Temperature EGT Ammeter MAC trim indicator Regards Nigel Charles If anyone is interested please contact Nigel on [nigelcharles(at)talktalk.net] Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2010
Subject: Re: Type of Paint for my Europa
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
Hi John I used PPG base white two pack acrylic, Very important to have a full mask with air supply if you decide to do your own painting, Th hardener come in different speeds for differing temps, Ivor On 23 December 2010 14:30, Steade wrote: > John > > I used Aerodur white topcoat and Barrier Primer supplied by "Pexa, > Springwood Business Park, Burrwood Way, Holywell Green, West Yorkshire, HX4 > 9BJ tel 01422 314400 > > > Regards > > David Steade > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Gamble" <mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Garmin GTX 320
Date: Dec 24, 2010
Thanks gentlemen I got the manual (several times) - more than happy. Happy Christmas to all. Mike From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble Sent: 23 December 2010 14:56 Subject: Europa-List: Garmin GTX 320 Does anyone have a copy of the Installation Manual for the Garmin GTX 320 transponder. I cannot find one from the usual sources. Thanks. Mike G-CFMP Mono ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2010
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Type of Paint for my Europa
It's always best (imho) to use Base White. There are so many obscure shades of =0Awhite that it's very hard to match for a repair. Stick with base whi te which =0Alooks whiter anyway,=0AI use PPG too.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0AFrom: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.c om>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 24 December, 2010 12:17 :52=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Type of Paint for my Europa=0A=0A=0AHi John =0AI used PPG base white two pack acrylic, Very important to have a full ma sk with =0Aair supply=0Aif you decide to do your own painting,=0ATh hardene r come in different speeds for differing temps,=0A =0AIvor=0A=0AOn 23 Decem ber 2010 14:30, Steade wrote:=0A=0AJohn=0A> =0A>I u sed Aerodur white topcoat and Barrier Primer supplied by "Pexa, Springwood =0A>Business Park, Burrwood Way, Holywell Green, West Yorkshire, HX4 9BJ te l 01422 =0A>314400=0A> =0A> =0A>Regards=0A> =0A>David Steade=0A> "_blank"> www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>= "_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n =0A>arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List =0A>t ================== =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2010
From: Jeff B <topglock(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Seats
Jim, As you know, I sewed my own seats for Baby Blue, however, if you want fast, just to get flying, just wrap a pillow case around some dense foam, that you've carved to roughly fit the seat pans. Good luck, Jeff - Baby Blue On 12/23/2010 6:32 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote: > I am at the point of installing seats. I notice that Wicks has a seat > available for a reasonable price. Has anyone used any of the > pre-manufactured seats? If so, which ones and how pleased are you? I > have talked to a couple of people who can make them, and have seen > several posts from people who have carved their own. If I do buy one, I > may want to replace it with a custom fit seat in the future. > > I have used Zolotone on the interior, so am fairly close to flying. I > primarily want something fast and easy. > > Jim Puglise > > A-283, XS - painted and cleaning up lots of details > > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gavin & Anne" <gavanne(at)iconz.co.nz>
Subject: MOD 42 COLD AIR PLENUM CHAMBER for CLASSIC needed
Date: Dec 25, 2010
Hi Chris Not sure if you received my reply, I have a Classic plenum which you can have for the cost of postage, the filter you would be able to get from the K & N website, (not sure of the part No but someone will know) and I'm sure someone will be able to supply you with the splash moulding to position the intake Contact me off list.... gavanne(at)iconz.co.nz Merry Xmas Gavin _____ From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 3:26 a.m. Subject: RE: Europa-List: MOD 42 COLD AIR PLENUM CHAMBER for CLASSIC needed Hello, Would anyone have a complete MOD 42 kit, 912 Rotax Plenum chamber for the CLASSIC, and not needed any more (perhaps you upgraded to XS cowing) available for purchase? Thanks, Christoph Both #223 Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil flow on the Rotax 912-914 series?
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Dec 25, 2010
Hi Frans, This is an old question and may be you got the answer in the mean time. I was also looking for this information and finally found it in the Rotax doc. It is in the Heavy Maintenance Manual ed.1/rev0, Section 71-00-00 page 12. Main oil pump flow at 5500 RPM: 16 liters per minute Turbo oil pump: 4 liters /min. Regards Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324429#324429 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Seasons Greetings
Date: Dec 25, 2010
Wishing you all a very Happy Christmas and looking forward to meeting many of you in the year to come (Sun'n'Fun, Sywell and travels around Europe). Steve Pitt G-SMDH Europa trigear 912S ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Season=C2=B4s_Greetings?
Date: Dec 25, 2010
Terveisin, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 +200 hrs 37500 Lemp=C3=A4=C3=A4l=C3=A4 FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio(at)fly.to www.rwm.fi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 26, 2010
My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. Thanks Steve Pitt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 26, 2010
I have no recommendation for a phone, but I do have an iPad with the Foreflight app loaded, and I absolutely love it. I won't go flying without it. Check out all the features on their website. Garry Stout From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. Thanks Steve Pitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2010
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Steve iPhone. I've made my iPhone 3GS a back up device and have the following Apps loaded . Some are free, others quite cheap really. I loaded and use Memory Map with CAA Maps. The App is free and the CAA Southern Map was =A39.99. Memory Map supports all CAA 1:500,000 and 1: 250,000 Maps as well as French Aviation Maps. Aeroweather (Free and Full versions are available) NOTAMS Wind Meter Altimeter Horizon Airspeed iHeading A 12V Socket is needed as these Apps tend to drain iPhone battery. All in all it's a great device and these Apps are well worth loading. Regards Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 26, 2010
Steve. I may not be the best person to advise as I have only had my Iphone for a couple of weeks but I do like it a lot already. I previously had a Nokia touchscreen phone and I consider the Iphone 4 to be much better. I have followed Gerry's idea and loaded most of the Apps he recommended. So far I can't fault it apart from it being somewhat expensive to buy. I did see that the HTC Desire had very good reports also and that runs the Android operating system which means you are not tied to Apple. Only drawback I saw to that phone was that the battery life was not great. All the Best. Richard Iddon. G-RIXS From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt Sent: 26 December 2010 17:15 Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. Thanks Steve Pitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2010
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Steve=0Ayou might also consider an HTC Desire, it runs on the Android OS wh ich is =0Awindoze compatible I think. IPhone's 2 expensive for me!=0AGraham =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Steven Pitt <steven .pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, 26 Dec ember, 2010 17:15:03=0ASubject: Europa-List: phones for flying=0A=0A =0AMy mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can =0Aanyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2010
From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
I too recommend the iPad, however, I run ForeFlight on my iPhone as well and with the GPS it works wonderfully. Very nice in a small cockpit. BTW, if you have an iPad without 3G and GPS be sure and take a look at Bad-elf.com. They have a chip which adds GPS to the iPad. Ralph On 12/26/2010 9:54 AM, Garry Stout wrote: > > I have no recommendation for a phone, but I do have an iPad with the > Foreflight app loaded, and I absolutely love it. I won't go flying > without it. Check out all the features on their website. > > Garry Stout > > *From:*owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Pitt > *Sent:* Sunday, December 26, 2010 12:15 PM > *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: phones for flying > > My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new > one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps > availability. > > Thanks > > Steve Pitt > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *www.aeroelectric.com* > *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>* > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Fairall <Bob.Fairall(at)fairalls.co.uk>
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Subject: Europa- Dynon Skyview Autopilot - relevant UK only
Has any UK Europa owner evaluated / applied for / received approval for the Dynon Skyview Autopilot from and in respect of the UK LAA please? Many thanks in anticipation. Bob Fairall - no 71 & 494. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Steve, I would absolutely recommend the ipad for getting all your flight planning info and everything that you could otherwise do on a laptop, + all the books you want to read, etc. - then any old phone will do to make calls! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. Thanks Steve Pitt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 27, 2010
The GPS which comes with the iPad is not "aviation grade". I also bought the Bad-elf chip and my Foreflight app runs much better and more accurately. Garry Stout From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph K. Hallett III Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying I too recommend the iPad, however, I run ForeFlight on my iPhone as well and with the GPS it works wonderfully. Very nice in a small cockpit. BTW, if you have an iPad without 3G and GPS be sure and take a look at Bad-elf.com. They have a chip which adds GPS to the iPad. Ralph On 12/26/2010 9:54 AM, Garry Stout wrote: I have no recommendation for a phone, but I do have an iPad with the Foreflight app loaded, and I absolutely love it. I won't go flying without it. Check out all the features on their website. Garry Stout From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. Thanks Steve Pitt www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Gents, FWIW, Air Guide has their FlightGuide EFB for the iPhone, iPad and Mac/PC. Great for flight planning and flight monitoring. Plus it now has an aviation-grade bluetooth GPS for use with the iPad. Not inexpensive but not outrageous either. I can't rate it right now but it's what I plan to use after I get my iPad next year. Check six, Bob Borger http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914 rlborger(at)mac.com Cel: 817-992-1117 On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Garry Stout wrote: > The GPS which comes with the iPad is not =93aviation grade=94. I also bought the Bad-elf chip and my Foreflight app runs much better and more accurately. > Garry Stout > > > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph K. Hallett III > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 8:04 PM > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying > > I too recommend the iPad, however, I run ForeFlight on my iPhone as well and with the GPS it works wonderfully. Very nice in a small cockpit. > BTW, if you have an iPad without 3G and GPS be sure and take a look at Bad-elf.com. They have a chip which adds GPS to the iPad. > > Ralph > > On 12/26/2010 9:54 AM, Garry Stout wrote: > I have no recommendation for a phone, but I do have an iPad with the Foreflight app loaded, and I absolutely love it. I won=92t go flying without it. Check out all the features on their website. > > Garry Stout > > > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010 12:15 PM > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying > > My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. Can anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. > Thanks > Steve Pitt > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > ================ > www.aeroelectric.comhttp://www. matronics.com/c= -Matt Dralle, List - The Europa-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much --> http://www.matron============== =====< - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web --> http://forums.matronics.com==== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rotax new flywheel hub for 912 series
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Hi all, This is the copy of the message I just posted on the Rotax forum: Rotax has recently introduced a new fly wheel hub with lengthened trigger cams which change the ignition timing during starting. This is described in SI-912-020 R4, section 74-00-00, page 1 and 4. With the new hub, ignition timing during the starting phase will be 3 degrees after TDC instead of 4 degrees before TDC. I am very interested in doing this mod on my 912ULS as it should prevent any possibility of kicking back. However I am puzzled by the dimensions shown on the drawing on page 4. The drawing says the old cams are 22 mm long and the new ones are 29 mm long. I measured the length of the cams on my 6 year old engine: they are 30 mm long! I also did the maths: the radius of the flywheel cams is 78 mm, so 1 degree rotation moves the cam edges 1.36 mm. From 4 to 26 degrees, that is 22 degrees difference, the length should be 1.36x22=29.95. So i believe my hub is good and the Rotax drawing is wrong. I have 2 questions: - to anyone who has access to the back of his engine: could you please remove the 3 screws which hold the plastic cover and measure the developed length of the cams. - to any one who have the new flywheel hub: please do the same. According to the SI, engines fitted with the new flywheel hub start with the following serial numbers: 912S: from S/N 4,923,847 912ULS and ULSFR: from 6,775,360 Waiting for your answers Regards Remi Guerner F-FGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324674#324674 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord which can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle which could be wired into and located on the instrument panel? (I'm told the iPad wants 1.5 amps) Thanks, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Fred Hi! Not being flippant but everything has a limited battery life. You are quite right when you say the iPhone battery charge can dissipate fairly quickly when using something like Memory Map as a navigational back up. Possibly as low as 4 hours or less. I do have a 12V Auxiliary connection to mine from a 7Amp Hour Battery Box as I have no electrics from the Aircraft. It's old and basic and not a Europa. I have a iPad at home and the battery life on that is very good, lasting about 15 hours in constant use although it could be less as navigation device. It too can have auxiliary 12V supply. These supplies are normally connected via Aux or Cigarette Lighter connection. I used a RAM iPhone Holder purchased from Aircraft Spruce. The iPad has similar holder. When using iPhone as navigational device turn off 3GS connection to conserve battery life. For iPad Holder look at: http://www.xtrdesign.co.uk/XTR_Design/Welcome.html http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap8lu.php For iPhone: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap9u.php Hope that helps. The iPhone is an excellent BACK UP for navigation as well as many other aviation Apps to use. AeroWeather is a must. Regards Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Fred, The iPad does 8hrs + How long do you anticipate flying? David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:50 AM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying > > Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord which > can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle which could > be wired into and located on the instrument panel? > > (I'm told the iPad wants 1.5 amps) > > Thanks, > > Fred > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Paul Atkinson <paullatkinson(at)gmail.com>
Fred I have a cigar lighter socket on the panel into which I plug a usb car charger. You will find dozens on Amazon, I think mine was made by Griffin. Cheers Paul On 28 December 2010 04:50, Fred Klein wrote: > > Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord which > can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle which could be > wired into and located on the instrument panel? > > (I'm told the iPad wants 1.5 amps) > > Thanks, > > Fred > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2010
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Gerry=0AI used to use my old PDA as a navigation device using PocketFMS. (g ood software =0Athat was)=0ATrouble is the connection for recharging and da ta updates has worn out so it =0Awon't recharge or update any more. Is the i Phone connector equally fragile?=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A____________________ ____________=0AFrom: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>=0ATo: eu ropa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 28 December, 2010 7:31:36=0ASubjec t: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying=0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted b y: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>=0A=0AFred Hi!=0ANot being flippant but everything has a limited battery life. You are quite=0Aright w hen you say the iPhone battery charge can dissipate fairly quickly=0Awhen u sing something like Memory Map as a navigational back up.=0APossibly as low as 4 hours or less. I do have a 12V Auxiliary connection to=0Amine from a 7Amp Hour Battery Box as I have no electrics from the Aircraft.=0AIt's old and basic and not a Europa.=0AI have a iPad at home and the battery life on that is very good, lasting=0Aabout 15 hours in constant use although it co uld be less as navigation=0Adevice. It too can have auxiliary 12V supply. T hese supplies are normally=0Aconnected via Aux or Cigarette Lighter connect ion.=0AI used a RAM iPhone Holder purchased from Aircraft Spruce. The iPad has=0Asimilar holder.=0AWhen using iPhone as navigational device turn off 3 GS connection to conserve=0Abattery life.=0A=0AFor iPad Holder look at:=0A http://www.xtrdesign.co.uk/XTR_Design/Welcome.html=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspr uce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap8lu.php=0A=0AFor iPhone:=0Ahttp://www.aircr aftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap9u.php=0A=0AHope that helps.=0AThe iP hone is an excellent BACK UP for navigation as well as many other=0Aaviatio -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: "europapa" <jubu(at)onlinehome.de>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
I bought myself an Android phone with almost the same features as the iPhone 4 for half the price of it. But to use it for aeronautical navigation and weather briefing it is only competitive for US users. Here in Europe they still dont offer easy to use apps and charts please correct me if Im not right. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324780#324780 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Greetings All, I've already posted several months back on my findings, using the iPad in a Europa. I carry it with me on every non-local flight. On bright sunny days it is nearly impossible to read in the cockpit. It's too big to fit my thigh because it blocks lateral stick movement. I have no open space on my panel for it either. I was thinking about a stalk mount on the left side of the fuse. Has anyone found a better solution? My current mode it to leave it in the pax seat and pick it up to read the screen. I use it as a backup to my BlueMountain and for weather overlays. The same view problems for my iPhone 3gs. No cell phone will be different because they all use a very similar display technology and they must balance battery life against backlight brightness. The iOS devices clearly have the best and the largest selection of relevent, useful, easy to use in the cockpit software. If you buy a different smartphone platform, you will be gambling that the aviation software will arrive before the device goes obsolete. I have used almost all of the available in-flight apps for the phone/pad. Now that Apple officially allows 3rd party multitasking, I run both Foreflight and AirNavPro and flip between them. AirNav has global map/navaid coverage, btw. I no longer use Skycharts because it is far more cumbersome and slow. I reject WingX because its user interface is a dog and it is far more expensive. I reject Jepp and AirGuide for the same reasons What I have seen in Flying, P&P, Kitplanes, IFR etc about these apps is unreliable. No real reviews have appeared, what has been been printed have been re-written press releases from advertisers. The GPS chipset in the iPad is more sensitive than that in the iPhone 3gs, but not as sensitive as a Garmin dash-mount automotive like my Nuvi 255w. Here's a simple test, fly commercial transport a/c somewhere in a window seat. Fire up iPhone, iPad, and Nuvi next to window. iPhone will rarely lock in flight, iPad will usually lock on (say 70-80% of time from cold start), and Nuvi will always lock (at least I have not yet seen it fail). There are some iOS GPS oddities in the phone where a good lock prevails during taxi, takeoff and climb, then fails as if some groundspeed / altitude limit is in the software ( well above Europa performance profile!!). It was fun and gratifying however to track my progress over the mid atlantic at 520 kts gs and FL390 enroute to/from Rio last month on my iPad with AirNavPro. Nine hour flight and the battery lasted the whole trip with perhaps 75% duty cycle and dimmed screen. The next big thing ought to be georeferenced approach plates if the vendors decide that the outboard GPS modules are that much better than the iPad internal system. I'd spring for an external gps in exchange for the live plates :) Best Wishes for the New Year! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324794#324794 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Ira, I can find NavPro in my App store but not AirNavPro. Are we missing something in the UK? Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:31 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: phones for flying > > Greetings All, > > I've already posted several months back on my findings, using the > iPad in a Europa. I carry it with me on every non-local flight. > > On bright sunny days it is nearly impossible to read in the cockpit. > It's too big to fit my thigh because it blocks lateral stick movement. > I have no open space on my panel for it either. I was thinking about > a stalk mount on the left side of the fuse. Has anyone found a better > solution? My current mode it to leave it in the pax seat and pick it > up to read the screen. I use it as a backup to my BlueMountain and for > weather overlays. > > The same view problems for my iPhone 3gs. > No cell phone will be different because they all use a very similar > display technology and they must balance battery life against > backlight brightness. > > > The iOS devices clearly have the best and the largest selection of > relevent, useful, easy to use in the cockpit software. > > If you buy a different smartphone platform, you will be gambling that > the aviation software will arrive before the device goes obsolete. > > I have used almost all of the available in-flight apps for the phone/pad. > > Now that Apple officially allows 3rd party multitasking, I run both > Foreflight and AirNavPro and flip between them. AirNav has global > map/navaid coverage, btw. > > I no longer use Skycharts because it is far more cumbersome and slow. > I reject WingX because its user interface is a dog and it is far more > expensive. > > I reject Jepp and AirGuide for the same reasons > > What I have seen in Flying, P&P, Kitplanes, IFR etc about these apps is > unreliable. No real reviews have appeared, what has been > been printed have been re-written press releases from advertisers. > > The GPS chipset in the iPad is more sensitive than that in the iPhone 3gs, > but not as sensitive as a Garmin dash-mount automotive like my Nuvi > 255w. > > Here's a simple test, fly commercial transport a/c somewhere in a window > seat. Fire up iPhone, iPad, and Nuvi next to window. iPhone will rarely > lock in flight, iPad will usually lock on (say 70-80% of time from cold > start), > and Nuvi will always lock (at least I have not yet seen it fail). There > are some iOS > GPS oddities in the phone where a good lock prevails during > taxi, takeoff and climb, then fails as if some groundspeed / altitude > limit is in the software ( well above Europa performance profile!!). > > It was fun and gratifying however to track my progress over the mid > atlantic at 520 kts gs and FL390 enroute to/from Rio last month on my > iPad with AirNavPro. Nine hour flight and the battery lasted the whole > trip > with perhaps 75% duty cycle and dimmed screen. > > The next big thing ought to be georeferenced approach plates if the > vendors decide that the outboard GPS modules are that much better than > the iPad internal system. I'd spring for an external gps in exchange > for the live plates :) > > Best Wishes for the New Year! > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324794#324794 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Apple, or Radio Shack has a power charging cord which plugs into a panel mounted cigarette lighter receptacle. I use one. Garry Stout -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:50 PM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord which can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle which could be wired into and located on the instrument panel? (I'm told the iPad wants 1.5 amps) Thanks, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
When using the iPad (with Foreflight app) IN THE AIR, don't turn off the 3G function. You'll be left with only Wi-Fi capability which is nonexistent in the air. In most sections of the country you'll still have internet connectivity via 3G cell towers, so you can get weather downloads, etc. The 3G cell tower service is not 100% as when flying over some more remote sections of the country you'll be out of range of any cell towers, but my experience is that I'm seldom out of service for more than about 10 or 15 minutes. Garry Stout -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Holland Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying <gholland@content-stream.co.uk> Fred Hi! Not being flippant but everything has a limited battery life. You are quite right when you say the iPhone battery charge can dissipate fairly quickly when using something like Memory Map as a navigational back up. Possibly as low as 4 hours or less. I do have a 12V Auxiliary connection to mine from a 7Amp Hour Battery Box as I have no electrics from the Aircraft. It's old and basic and not a Europa. I have a iPad at home and the battery life on that is very good, lasting about 15 hours in constant use although it could be less as navigation device. It too can have auxiliary 12V supply. These supplies are normally connected via Aux or Cigarette Lighter connection. I used a RAM iPhone Holder purchased from Aircraft Spruce. The iPad has similar holder. When using iPhone as navigational device turn off 3GS connection to conserve battery life. For iPad Holder look at: http://www.xtrdesign.co.uk/XTR_Design/Welcome.html http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap8lu.php For iPhone: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap9u.php Hope that helps. The iPhone is an excellent BACK UP for navigation as well as many other aviation Apps to use. AeroWeather is a must. Regards Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Ira, I believe that the Foreflight folks are working on geo referenced approach plates, and plan to release soon. Won't that be something! Garry Stout -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 9:32 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: phones for flying Greetings All, I've already posted several months back on my findings, using the iPad in a Europa. I carry it with me on every non-local flight. On bright sunny days it is nearly impossible to read in the cockpit. It's too big to fit my thigh because it blocks lateral stick movement. I have no open space on my panel for it either. I was thinking about a stalk mount on the left side of the fuse. Has anyone found a better solution? My current mode it to leave it in the pax seat and pick it up to read the screen. I use it as a backup to my BlueMountain and for weather overlays. The same view problems for my iPhone 3gs. No cell phone will be different because they all use a very similar display technology and they must balance battery life against backlight brightness. The iOS devices clearly have the best and the largest selection of relevent, useful, easy to use in the cockpit software. If you buy a different smartphone platform, you will be gambling that the aviation software will arrive before the device goes obsolete. I have used almost all of the available in-flight apps for the phone/pad. Now that Apple officially allows 3rd party multitasking, I run both Foreflight and AirNavPro and flip between them. AirNav has global map/navaid coverage, btw. I no longer use Skycharts because it is far more cumbersome and slow. I reject WingX because its user interface is a dog and it is far more expensive. I reject Jepp and AirGuide for the same reasons What I have seen in Flying, P&P, Kitplanes, IFR etc about these apps is unreliable. No real reviews have appeared, what has been been printed have been re-written press releases from advertisers. The GPS chipset in the iPad is more sensitive than that in the iPhone 3gs, but not as sensitive as a Garmin dash-mount automotive like my Nuvi 255w. Here's a simple test, fly commercial transport a/c somewhere in a window seat. Fire up iPhone, iPad, and Nuvi next to window. iPhone will rarely lock in flight, iPad will usually lock on (say 70-80% of time from cold start), and Nuvi will always lock (at least I have not yet seen it fail). There are some iOS GPS oddities in the phone where a good lock prevails during taxi, takeoff and climb, then fails as if some groundspeed / altitude limit is in the software ( well above Europa performance profile!!). It was fun and gratifying however to track my progress over the mid atlantic at 520 kts gs and FL390 enroute to/from Rio last month on my iPad with AirNavPro. Nine hour flight and the battery lasted the whole trip with perhaps 75% duty cycle and dimmed screen. The next big thing ought to be georeferenced approach plates if the vendors decide that the outboard GPS modules are that much better than the iPad internal system. I'd spring for an external gps in exchange for the live plates :) Best Wishes for the New Year! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324794#324794 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
With fairly extensive cross country experience using the iPad, I've found about 4 to 5 hours of useful battery life.........no way can I get 8 hours. Garry Stout -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying Fred, The iPad does 8hrs + How long do you anticipate flying? David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:50 AM Subject: Europa-List: phones for flying > > Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord which > can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle which could > be wired into and located on the instrument panel? > > (I'm told the iPad wants 1.5 amps) > > Thanks, > > Fred > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
I have a cigar socket on the panel. I connect a 4 way connector and power tw o iphones, backup gps, and sometimes a video camera! It works fine the iphon e connectors are quite robust. Kevin On 28 Dec 2010, at 12:28, GRAHAM SINGLETON w rote: > Gerry > I used to use my old PDA as a navigation device using PocketFMS. (good sof tware that was) > Trouble is the connection for recharging and data updates has worn out so i t won't recharge or update any more. Is the i Phone connector equally fragil e? > Graham > From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk> > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, 28 December, 2010 7:31:36 > Subject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying > co.uk> > > Fred Hi! > Not being flippant but everything has a limited battery life. You are quit e > right when you say the iPhone battery charge can dissipate fairly quickly > when using something like Memory Map as a navigational back up. > Possibly as low as 4 hours or less. I do have a 12V Auxiliary connection t o > mine from a 7Amp Hour Battery Box as I have no electrics from the Aircraft . > It's old and basic and not a Europa. > I have a iPad at home and the battery life on that is very good, lasting > about 15 hours in constant use although it could be less as navigation > device. It too can have auxiliary 12V supply. These supplies are normally > connected via Aux or Cigarette Lighter connection. > I used a RAM iPhone Holder purchased from Aircraft Spruce. The iPad has > similar holder. > When using iPhone as navigational device turn off 3GS connection to conser ve > battery life. > > For iPad Holder look at: > http://www.xtrdesign.co.uk/XTR_Design/Welcome.html > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap8lu.php > > For iPhone: > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ramholap9u.php > > Hope that helps. > The iPhone is an excellent BACK UP for navigation as well as many other > aviation Apps to use. AeroWme AWESOME FREE lectric www.aeroere www.builder sb="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com= --> http://wwwnk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro nics.com > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Gerry, David, and Paul, Thanks for your replies...I own neither an iPhone nor and iPad at present; if fact, I remain "cell-free", and my ignorance must be apparent. However, I've heard nothing but wonderful things about apps related to flight planning, and, I gather that additional apps are earning these iP's a place in the cockpit...hence...as I'm just beginning to cut my subpanels, it seemed like a good idea to locate a receptacle to be able to power them up. I initially resisted using a cigar lighter socket...it seems so archaic...but hey, how much simpler could it be? Rest assured, I will be relying on Mr. Garmin and Mr. Dynon for navigation...not Mr. Jobs (cool as that might be). Cheers, Fred On Dec 28, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote: > I have a cigar lighter socket on the panel into which I plug a usb > car charger. You will find dozens on Amazon, I think mine was made > by Griffin. > > Cheers > > Paul > > On 28 December 2010 04:50, Fred Klein wrote: > > Given limited battery life of iPad/iPhone, has anyone found a cord > which can plug directly into a 12v power source, and a receptacle > which could be wired into and located on the instrument panel? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Fred Mr Jobs could supply you with a great phone and a =8Cback up=B9 GPS facility + weather reports. Mr Dynon is another great player so your choice is lot easier than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Get building now! Kind Regards and finish building in 2011!!!! Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2010
From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
At the risk of beating a dead horse... Be sure and not use your polarized sun glassed with the iPad, scared the poo out of me the first time I used it. Looked at iPad for chart and it was BLACK, I thought the battery was dead! Nope, just the bone head using the sun glasses. Ralph On 12/28/2010 10:36 AM, Gerry Holland wrote: > Fred > Mr Jobs could supply you with a great phone and a 'back up' GPS > facility + weather reports. > Mr Dynon is another great player so your choice is lot easier than it > was 5 or 10 years ago. > Get building now! > Kind Regards and finish building in 2011!!!! > Gerry > * > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Subject: Classic Rudder build manual?
Hi folks, I'm incorporating Graham's tail-wheel mod, and require the push-rod bracket Classic rudder build manual section. I'd be grateful for a softcopy if anyone has one handy. I trust that the Classic manual also specifies the distance from the bottom of the rudder. Also, I assume the lower rudder horn build step is omitted(?). Cheers and thx! Pete A239 .... finally getting this ball rolling :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2010
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Classic Rudder build manual?
Pete=0Ayes,you omit the bottom rudder horn.=0AWhat instructions do you have for my system? Do you have the Classic push rod =0Amount that fits in the rudder?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Peter Zutrauen =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASen t: Tuesday, 28 December, 2010 22:21:44=0ASubject: Europa-List: Classic Rudd er build manual?=0A=0AHi folks,=0A=0AI'm incorporating Graham's tail-wheel mod, and require the push-rod bracket =0AClassic rudder build manual sectio n. =0A=0A=0AI'd be grateful for a softcopy if anyone has one handy. I tr ust that the =0AClassic manual also specifies the distance from the bottom of the rudder. =0A=0AAlso, I assume the lower rudder horn build step is omi tted(?).=0A=0ACheers and thx!=0APete=0AA239 .... finally getting this ball -======================== =========== =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Hi David, Try the company website at http://www.xample.ch/ The official name is Air Navigation Pro. Check it out, you might be pleased. Hi Garry, The georef plates are an interesting issue. It would make sense That the necessary data is within the compressed PDF. However, In a burst curiosity, I disassembled and decompressed some Plates straight from NACO. Amazingly, it is not there, not in the standard public release. Amazingly, the PDFs actually contain a vectorized version of the all the tiny little strokes on the page, not the geometry. Secure I suppose, but extremely inefficient, space wise. There is a single company in Seattle that apparently gets better PDFs or additional information from NACO. Those that do georeferenced plates at the moment, all use this company's product. If Foreflight is going With them, we can expect to pay more ;( Stay warm Garry! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324853#324853 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2010
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Fred=0AYou can buy a cheap cigar lighter power supply cable, cut the plug o ff and wire =0Ait in directly. Be careful though, the output won't be 12 vo lts so you need the =0Aone for the device you want to use.=0Aregards=0AGrah am.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Fred Klein <fkle in(at)orcasonline.com>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 28 Dec ember, 2010 18:23:58=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: phones for flying=0A=0AI i nitially resisted using a cigar lighter socket...it seems so archaic...but =========0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Classic Rudder build manual?
From: duanefamly(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 2010
Graham, since you are addressing this mod, I have a quick question...... ..since I have incorporated this mod during my build, it has been awhile si nce dealing with it.......but now I have to make adjustments to try and ach ieve the 30' deflection on each side and have only been able to reach about 20' on each side.....any suggestions? Mike -----Original Message----- From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> Sent: Tue, Dec 28, 2010 4:29 pm Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic Rudder build manual? Pete yes,you omit the bottom rudder horn. What instructions do you have for my system? Do you have the Classic push r od mount that fits in the rudder? Graham From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> Sent: Tuesday, 28 December, 2010 22:21:44 Subject: Europa-List: Classic Rudder build manual? Hi folks, I'm incorporating Graham's tail-wheel mod, and require the push-rod bracket Classic rudder build manual section. I'd be grateful for a softcopy if anyone has one handy. I trust that the C lassic manual also specifies the distance from the bottom of the rudder. Also, I assume the lower rudder horn build step is omitted(?). Cheers and thx! Pete A239 .... finally getting this ball rolling :-) www.ae"; target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.builde rsbookslow"; target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http:w"; target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eu ropa-List --> - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: - -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -======================== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: - -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Subject: MOD 42 COLD AIR PLENUM CHAMBER for CLASSIC needed
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Hi Gavin: Thank you again for your generous offer! In the mean time a builder in the UK offered me a complete set, with all filters, etc which I took as I need all the parts. So, for the time being I am not taking your offer. In any ca se, thanks so much - if something breaks I will contact you! Best, Christoph Both #223 Classic 912S (almost completed after 16 years) Nova Scotia, Canada From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gavin & Anne Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: MOD 42 COLD AIR PLENUM CHAMBER for CLASSIC needed Hi Chris Not sure if you received my reply, I have a Classic plenum which you can h ave for the cost of postage, the filter you would be able to get from the K & N website, (not sure of the part No but someone will know) and I'm sure someone will be able to supply you with the splash moulding to position the intake Contact me off list.......... gavanne(at)iconz.co.nz Merry Xmas Gavin ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 3:26 a.m. Subject: RE: Europa-List: MOD 42 COLD AIR PLENUM CHAMBER for CLASSIC needed Hello, Would anyone have a complete MOD 42 kit, 912 Rotax Plenum chamber for the C LASSIC, and not needed any more (perhaps you upgraded to XS cowing) availab le for purchase? Thanks, Christoph Both #223 Nova Scotia, Canada www.buildersbooks.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com rsbooks.com> m> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Subject: Exhaust springs
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Hi all, As some of you are aware I have been doing a few mods on my cowl. One of the things I have done is to re design the exhaust to point straight back. I made a temporary one out of 4130 steel to prove the concept and I am making a new one out of stainless. I have decided to incorporate a slip joint and I need some information on springs. Could someone with a 912/s installation tell me the overall length, the diameter and wire thickness of the springs that are used on there exhaust system. Also, if there a local source then that would be handy to know. Thanks, Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust springs
Date: Dec 29, 2010
On Dec 29, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Paul McAllister wrote: > Could someone with a 912/s installation tell me the overall length, > the diameter and wire thickness of the springs that are used on there > exhaust system. Also, if there a local source then that would be > handy to know. Paul, Aircraft Spruce has what they call "Rotax exhaust spring" at: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/938-795exhaustSpring.php 66mm (2.60") hook distance. Part #938-795 Spring....2-1/4" with a 5/8" diameter. Good Luck, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2010
From: "vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk" <vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: aileron to wing attachment
Hi there, just beguining to attach the ailerons to my wings on my xs mono but they are too long! i have read through the manual but cannot see where i am supposed to remove the excess. is it from the inboard close-out next to the flap flange on the wing close out or on the wing tip end close-out on the aileron. also what clearance should i be looking for as this is not mentioned either.. GPUPY some years to go yet! vic flett ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: phones for flying
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Ira, Thanks. Air navigation Pro is a totally different animal from NavPro and looks to have real potential. Happy New Year, David ----- Original Message ----- From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:27 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: phones for flying > > Hi David, > > Try the company website at http://www.xample.ch/ > The official name is Air Navigation Pro. > Check it out, you might be pleased. > > > Hi Garry, > The georef plates are an interesting issue. It would make sense > That the necessary data is within the compressed PDF. However, > In a burst curiosity, I disassembled and decompressed some > Plates straight from NACO. Amazingly, it is not there, not in > the standard public release. Amazingly, the PDFs actually contain > a vectorized version of the all the tiny little strokes on the page, not > the geometry. Secure I suppose, but extremely inefficient, space wise. > > There is a single company in Seattle that apparently gets better PDFs or > additional information from NACO. Those that do georeferenced plates > at the moment, all use this company's product. If Foreflight is going > With them, we can expect to pay more ;( > > Stay warm Garry! > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324853#324853 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: phones for flying
From: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Dec 26, 2010
Steve Iphone 4 loads of apps for flying and finding a hotel, car etc when you get t here. Kevin On 26 Dec 2010, at 17:15, "Steven Pitt" wrote: > My mobile is coming to the end of its life so I am looking for a new one. C an anyone give recommendations especially with flying apps availability. > Thanks > Steve Pitt > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2010
From: jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: aileron to wing attachment
----- Original Message ----- From: vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:36:56 AM Subject: Europa-List: aileron to wing attachment li.co.uk> Hi there, just beguining to attach the ailerons to my wings on my xs mono but they are too long! i have read through the manual but cannot see where i am supposed to remove the excess. is it from the inboard close-out next to the flap flange on the wing close out or on the wing tip end close-out on the aileron. also what clearance should i be looking for as this is not mentioned either.. GPUPY =C2-some years to go yet! vic flett =========== =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. Vic- It would seem to me to be the outboard end.=C2- You need to be concerned that the inboard end accepts the aileron push rod without hanging up, so yo u have little flexibility on that end.=C2- I think most people have a min imum of about 1/8 inch on the outboard end, and a little more between the a ileron and flap.=C2-On my wing, I reversed the gusset that goes in the wi ngtip to give me a nicer closeout between the aileron end and the wingtip. Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL About 95% done. =========== =========== MS - =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 31, 2010
Subject: Re: aileron to wing attachment
I had the same issue. I think I trimmed most of the excess from the outboard end. I can't remember if I trimmed any from the inboard. The bolt at the inboard end has to be flush with the flange after the bolt is bonded in, so trim carefully on that end if you have to. I believe the clearance between the flap and aileron is mentioned in the manual, 3-5mm I think. On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:36 AM, vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk < vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk> > > Hi there, > > just beguining to attach the ailerons to my wings on my xs > mono but they are too long! > > i have read through the manual but cannot > see where i am supposed to remove the excess. > > is it from the inboard > close-out next to the flap flange on the wing close out or on the wing > tip end close-out on the aileron. > > also what clearance should i be > looking for as this is not mentioned either.. > > GPUPY > > some years to go > yet! > > vic flett > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aileron to wing attachment
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2011
I have a classic, but the length of the aileron and flap foam blanks determined the lengths. I had to reduce the outboard length of the aileron, and it reduced the flange size for the closeout to the point where I wasn't happy with it, so I cut it out, the closeout, and rebuilt a new one. Reg Tony Renshaw On 01/01/2011, at 3:31 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > I had the same issue. I think I trimmed most of the excess from the outboard > end. I can't remember if I trimmed any from the inboard. The bolt at the > inboard end has to be flush with the flange after the bolt is bonded in, so > trim carefully on that end if you have to. > > I believe the clearance between the flap and aileron is mentioned in the > manual, 3-5mm I think. > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:36 AM, vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk < > vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > >> vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk> >> >> Hi there, >> >> just beguining to attach the ailerons to my wings on my xs >> mono but they are too long! >> >> i have read through the manual but cannot >> see where i am supposed to remove the excess. >> >> is it from the inboard >> close-out next to the flap flange on the wing close out or on the wing >> tip end close-out on the aileron. >> >> also what clearance should i be >> looking for as this is not mentioned either.. >> >> GPUPY >> >> some years to go >> yet! >> >> vic flett >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aileron to wing attachment
Date: Jan 01, 2011
From: neveyre(at)aol.co.uk
Hi Vic, Others have replied with the correct answers, Trim from the outboard end only, if you have to take off more than 3/16'', dig out the original closeout, deepen to 1/2'' and redo the closeout. [ 2 Bids] With the flap forced outboard so it hits the flap closeout ''endplate'' ,you should shoot for a 1/8'' [ two mixing sticks] gap between the flap outboard end and the aileron inboard end. Fit the tip closeout panel arse backwards once you have the aileron trimme d to size [ and got the angle true ] Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk <vicflett(at)tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:36 Subject: Europa-List: aileron to wing attachment ali.co.uk> Hi there, just beguining to attach the ailerons to my wings on my xs ono but they are too long! i have read through the manual but cannot ee where i am supposed to remove the excess. is it from the inboard lose-out next to the flap flange on the wing close out or on the wing ip end close-out on the aileron. also what clearance should i be ooking for as this is not mentioned either.. GPUPY some years to go et! vic flett ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)sent.com>
Subject: Annual Dinner
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Has anyone got any info on Coventry Airport? I was thinking of flying down for the annual dinner if the weather is half decent. Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Europa Club Annual Bash
Date: Jan 04, 2011
For those UK owners who are bored with poor flying weather and lack of contact with fellow builders/flyers there are still a few places left for the Europa Club annual bash at the Brandon Hall Hotel & Spar on 22/23 January. There is plenty to do for partners so you don't need to feel guilty about neglecting them while you talk about your first/second love with fellow addicts. Just go to the Europa Club website site at www.europaclub.org.uk for details. If you are not a club member, don't worry I can fix that for you on the day. Regards Brian Davies The Europa Club membership secretary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Subject: Europa fuel tank - Fluorination service in the USA
A quick update for anyone interested: - My tank is enroute back to me (well, not me, but to the UPS store in Odgensburg NY) - My shipping costs were approx $100. I included a return shipping label in the crate for the return trip. (their quotes are FOB their dock) - The process reportedly was uneventful (no contamination-caused heat damage) - I just received their quote, for anyone else interested the cost is $33.46 per tank. What a deal! :-) - Their minimum order charge is $300 - ouch....(I'm still sore) (btw, that is reduced from $400 for us Europa builders) - On their quote, they offer "Certificate of Fluorination" for an additional $90 per *shipment* fwiw. So, for any other builders in N.A. who have not yet installed their tank and were interested, if a group got together the shipping costs would likely be greater than the actual processing. The only potential tricky part may be the logistics, to ensure all the tanks got to their dock near the same time. I have the quote in .pdf for anyone interested. Cheers, Pete A239 Ottawa, Canada On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Yes, my tank is en-route. As I've been advised from them that if the tank > is not free of contaminants (I had to clean mine inside and out with > naphtha/methanol - nasty) it could be damaged in the process (over-heat from > a reaction with contaminants), I'd recommend that we wait and see how mine > goes. Also, I've asked them to produce an accurate costing for my tank (and > filler snake) with the prospect of doing a few more (grouped together) for > any other builders out there. > > One interesting comment by their technical adviser I thought may have some > merit: when he was examining pictures of my tank for a cost estimate, he > advised me that all cuts/openings to the tank must be done prior to the > process, or any exposed freshly cut surface will be an entry point for the > absorption of fuel into the MDPE plastic. This is because the fluorination > treatment is only a surface treatment. So if one takes his opinion as > valid, even if the tanks have been treated to an adequate level by Europa, > cutting into them after-wards drastically diminishes the treatment's > effectiveness. > > I'll keep the list updated on the outcome of my tank's adventure, and group > pricing for anybody interested. Of course I won't likely know how effective > it has been for another 10 years or so :-P > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > Ottawa, Canada > > PS - when I asked the cynical question of "how do I know you even did > anything" I received the following (reassuring?) reply: > * > "Regarding your assurance that your tank has been treated properly, we do > not ship any items to any one of our customers without our QC measures in > place. Through use of a Thermo Electron Fourier Transform Infrared > Spectrophotometer (FTIR) the ratio of available hydrogen sites that have > been replaced with fluorine in comparison to the available hydrogen sites > that have not been replaced with fluorine can be measured. Every item > treated by us must pass our QC before it is released for return shipment. " > * > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Steve Hagar wrote: > >> Peter: >> >> Have you sent your tank in yet? I being one who having to "hack my tank >> out" have a tank that I bought a couple of years ago from Bob Berube. I >> don't know how long he had it so its processing is questionable. I had been >> planning on fabricating a metal tank for installation when I got around to >> it so the new plastic tank has been sitting around to be used as a model. >> However I may change my mind and put the stock item in it would be good to >> have the proper processing on it. If the lot charge could be spread over 2 >> or more tanks it would be beneficial. Please get with me if this is >> something to be considered. >> >> Thank you , >> >> Steve Hagar >> A143 >> Mesa AZ >> hagargs(at)earthlink.net >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Jones" <jron.jones(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Fuel hose
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Seasons Greetings to all. I would be very interested to hear what the latest thinking is on the type / make of flexible fuel hose is best for handling Un-leaded Mogas now that our wonderful leaders are insisting on dumping all sorts of horrible additives into said fuel. I have an XS with 912S fitted and the hoses have decided they've had enough and have started weeping! (I'm weeping, too, at the thought of changing them in this weather! Regards to all, Ron Jones (G-RJWX) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel hose
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Ron, If you want to stay with flexible rubber you'll probably want to go with the best fuel injection system hose you can find. Over here we'd go to any good auto parts store to get it. Over on your side of the pond it may be different. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jan 4, 2011, at 16:20, Ron Jones wrote: > > Seasons Greetings to all. > > I would be very interested to hear what the latest thinking is on the type / make of flexible fuel hose is best for handling Un-leaded Mogas now that our wonderful leaders are insisting on dumping all sorts of horrible additives into said fuel. > I have an XS with 912S fitted and the hoses have decided they've had enough and have started weeping! > (I'm weeping, too, at the thought of changing them in this weather! > > Regards to all, > Ron Jones (G-RJWX) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel hose
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Check this reference: http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf R9 hose for impermence, braided stainless forward of the firewall -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325622#325622 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel hose
Looks good Ira but they don't appear to mention the conductive coating on t he =0APTFE, it needs to be anti static electricity because minor sparks hav e been =0Aknown to pierce the ptfe. =0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0AFrom: rampil <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: europa- list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 5 January, 2011 3:00:44=0ASubject: Eu ira.rampil@gmail.com>=0A=0ACheck this reference:=0A=0Ahttp://www.gates.com/ common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf=0A=0AR9 hose for imp ermence, braided stainless forward of the firewall=0A=0A--------=0AIra N224 XS=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics. ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel hose
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Hi Graham! This hose does not have solid inner liner of ptfe. It is therefore Compatible with the push on connector we are faced with on the older engines. The Aeroquip 666 which is the ultimate fuel hose on many specs is in two grades, one with, one without the carbon stripe for prevent triboelectric phenomena. With that hose you need to be careful about making sure you have the carbon and that you have The necessary AN hose fittings because you can not push the Teflon onto barb connectors Cheers, Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325664#325664 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>
Subject: Re: Fuel hose
Finding Gates (and equivalent Goodyear) 30R9 hard to find I ended up with equivalent Thermoid injection hose on US trip. Equally "low permeation" marine hose easily found around here has much thicker walls these injection hoses. I only use small sections. I mainly use alu tubing 5052-O and Aeroquip 666. All I know on the subject. Jan de Jong ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Subject: www.europaowners.org down?
Just checking if it is something terminal with the charitable server, or just a glitch. Cheers! Pete A239 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Subject: Annual Checklist
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Hi All, Here I am struggling again to find something I had or dreamed I had it. Where can I find a copy of the annual conditional inspection for the Europa Monowheel? (or maybe the 100 hour) I have looked where I thought I had one in my document folder. No joy anywhere. Also, does anyone know what's up with the Europa Forum Site. Seems to be not up at all but down. I really appreciate that site so much. Troy Maynor Monowheel Classic UK120 72 fun hours so far! (Can't fly for all the snow and water standing on the field so may as well do my annual.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "craigb" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>
Subject: www.europaowners.org down?
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Still no response today From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 10:12 PM Subject: Europa-List: www.europaowners.org down? Just checking if it is something terminal with the charitable server, or just a glitch. Cheers! Pete A239 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2011
From: josok-e <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>
Subject: Re: www.europaowners.org down?
Sorry folks, i just forgot to pay the domain-name renewal fee. It will probably be over the weekend before thew payment is processed and the site on-line again. The good thing about it , is to see that it is missed :-) Regards, Jos Okhuijsen 8.1.2011 8:30, craigb kirjoitti: > > Still no response today > > *From:*owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter > Zutrauen > *Sent:* Friday, 7 January 2011 10:12 PM > *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Europa-List: www.europaowners.org down? > > Just checking if it is something terminal with the charitable server, > or just a glitch. > > Cheers! > Pete > A239 > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Discovery Disaster Program
Date: Jan 08, 2011
In the UK, the Discovery TV channel is showing a Disaster program at 21:00 tonight (8th Jan) The trailer for the program has shots of D-ELPR caught on the power lines. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Flying e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Annual Checklist
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Troy, It's in the aircraft handbook.. If you have lost it I could scan you copies of the relevant pages. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 3:26 AM Subject: Europa-List: Annual Checklist Hi All, Here I am struggling again to find something I had or dreamed I had it. Where can I find a copy of the annual conditional inspection for the Europa Monowheel? (or maybe the 100 hour) I have looked where I thought I had one in my document folder. No joy anywhere. Also, does anyone know what's up with the Europa Forum Site. Seems to be not up at all but down. I really appreciate that site so much. Troy Maynor Monowheel Classic UK120 72 fun hours so far! (Can't fly for all the snow and water standing on the field so may as well do my annual.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Jones" <jron.jones(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Bounced messages
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Hello All, I have been trying to reply to all you good folk who have responded to my question about fuel hose but the message is returned as "address unknown" but I am using the address shown on my welcome message from Matt. Where am I going wrong? Regards, Ron Jones. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Annual Checklist
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Troy, I have a PDF of the Monowheel Owners Manual. It's a bit larger than half a meg. I should be able to e-mail it directly to you. Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jan 7, 2011, at 21:26, Troy Maynor wrote: > Hi All, > Here I am struggling again to find something I had or dreamed I had it. > Where can I find a copy of the annual conditional inspection for the Europa Monowheel? (or maybe the 100 hour) I have looked where I thought I had one in my document folder. No joy anywhere. > Also, does anyone know what's up with the Europa Forum Site. Seems to be not up at all but down. I really appreciate that site so much. > > Troy Maynor > Monowheel Classic UK120 > 72 fun hours so far! > > (Can't fly for all the snow and water standing on the field so may as well do my annual.) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Annual Checklist
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Hi All, Thanks for the speedy response from each of you. It would have helped if I hadn't left my owners manual 35 miles away at the hangar last time I was there. I appreciate the ones that have been created and improved to include the engine and the airframe. Thanks again to all who responded so quickly. Troy Maynor Monowheel Classic UK120 72 fun hours so far! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cowl Access Door Catch.
From: "flying farmer" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Hello All. Dose any one know the part number and availability of the Cowl Access Door Catch that fit flat to the surface and you only need your finger to open them. I only have the screw driver (1/4 Turn) type. Thank You Richard Wheelwright Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326008#326008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Subject: Re: Cowl Access Door Catch.
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
Richard LAS have them http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=U01A9WYEL regards Ivor On 8 January 2011 17:09, flying farmer wrote: > rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> > > Hello All. > Dose any one know the part number and availability of the Cowl Access > Door Catch that fit flat to the surface and you only need your finger to > open them. I only have the screw driver (1/4 Turn) type. > > Thank You > Richard Wheelwright > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326008#326008 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Wanted Rotax 912
Date: Jan 08, 2011
On behalf of Nigel Charles Nigel has a friend in France who is looking for a second hand Rotax 912 engine for his ULM. Perhaps there is someone with a Europa who is looking to upgrade to the 912S or 914. The engine time should be no more than 500hrs. Anyone interested can contact Nigel by email on nigelcharles(at)talktalk.net. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bounced messages
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Hello Ron, Do not use E-Mail at all for best access! That method is antique and as we say in the programming world - deprecated. Use your web browser: forums.matronics.com this will allow you reading, browsing and writing posts at your convenience. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326026#326026 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: www.europaowners.org down?
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
thanks Jos for continuing to provide this invaluable service to the building fraternity! cheers, Pete A239 On Jan 8, 2011, at 3:13 AM, josok-e wrote: > Sorry folks, i just forgot to pay the domain-name renewal fee. > It will probably be over the weekend before thew payment is processed and t he site on-line again. > The good thing about it , is to see that it is missed :-) > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > 8.1.2011 8:30, craigb kirjoitti: >> >> Still no response today >> >> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se rver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen >> Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 10:12 PM >> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: www.europaowners.org down? >> >> Just checking if it is something terminal with the charitable server, or just a glitch. >> >> Cheers! >> Pete >> A239 >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Msg for William McClellan Only, due bouncing replies
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Apologies to list, but Bill, my e-mail replies keep bouncing with an error message stating "over quota". This may be something you can remedy at your end. Reg Tony Renshaw ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "craigb" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>
Subject: Cowl Access Door Catch.
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Aircraft spruce also carry them, I got 10 of them ex surplus stock for about $2 each, postage would be about $10, I combined mine with another order From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PHILLIPS I Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 4:22 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl Access Door Catch. Richard LAS have them http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=U01A9WYEL regards Ivor On 8 January 2011 17:09, flying farmer wrote: Hello All. Dose any one know the part number and availability of the Cowl Access Door Catch that fit flat to the surface and you only need your finger to open them. I only have the screw driver (1/4 Turn) type. Thank You Richard Wheelwright Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326008#326008 ist Un/Subscription, www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: inner diameter fuel hose
From: "europapa" <jubu(at)onlinehome.de>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Hello, a happy new year to all of you and always happy landings in 2011. As my Europa sleeps far away in the hangar, Im not able to look my self: Whats the inner diameter of the fuel hose that fits on the carburetor? Thanks in advance Juergen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326125#326125 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Annual Checklist
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Hi Troy You can download an XS Owners Manual from Europa: http://www.europa-aircraft.com/assistance/manuals.php Not sure if there are any differences when doing a conditional inspection on a XS compared to a Classic. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326207#326207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: inner diameter fuel hose
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
For Rotax 912 series: 6 millimeters Regards Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326208#326208 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Aussie floods
Kingsley & Lance,=0AI hope you didn't get washed away by the floods. Are yo u OK. Any news?=0AGraham=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug>
Subject: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
Date: Jan 11, 2011
Greetings from Kenya. I've saved up a few questions for the network, perhaps someone out there can help. 1. New regulations here dictate that we must now all fly with 406 ELT, and especially recommended is the Artex 406 (PLBs will not do here). This requires that for composite aircraft, the skin of the aircraft must have radial metallic strips, 1 inch wide, in the shape of a 6-point star, extending out for 24 inches in all directions. Seems a bit excessive for a Europa, where can we find that space? Behind bagage bay is obvious best bet. Will alumnium strips work (I have sticky aluminium tape, 2" wide). Has anyone fitted this arrangement? Does anyome have a mod approval, STC or something for the Artex 406 installation in a Europa, that I can wave at aviation officialdom here? 2. My tailwheel goes through bearings at the rate of knots, must be our dusty runways. But it is costly to fit new tailwheels, when the tyre itself is fine. Has anyone tried to fit the bearings available from Aircraft Spruce into the Europa tailwheel? 3. Two weeks ago I got into the Europa (Classic, 912UL), started up, and had very rough running. Under the hood, found that the left carb was leaking back through the connection to the plenum chamber, theres a small hole for water clearance, and fuel was pouring onto the ground. Further investigation revealed that all this seems to be because of an overflowing float chamber. The float 'needle' (with viton tip) looks absolutely clean, no grooves on its face, but no adjustment of the float bracket will stop the flow. The floats are fine. Has anyone had this problem after just 500 hours of flying? The fuel goes through an Andair gascolator upstream, so I am not sure what contamination caused this. Thanks, and all best to all for the New Year! Richard Europa 168, Kenya. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bounced messages
From: "Ron Jones" <jron.jones(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 11, 2011
Thanks, Ira, for your message. I'll try this in future. Regards, Ron. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326459#326459 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bounced messages
From: "Ron Jones" <jron.jones(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 11, 2011
Hi Matt et all, An e-mail sent earlier to the forum has bounced with this comment. (The yellow highlighting is not mine!) I only recently re-subscribed to the list having been moving house but in all the years previously, I had no problems posting or receiving! Regards, Ron. The following message to was undeliverable. The reason for the problem: 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 554-'Service unavailable; Client host [out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net] blocked using Barracuda Reputation; http://bbl.barracudacentral.com/q.cgi?ip=92.26.183.172' Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326460#326460 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Door shootbolt rod material
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Hi, In the process of attempting to nominally increase the length of the aft shootbolt throw, I cut the rod and sleeved it, but it now catches within the sill as it actuates. I think I might just replace the pushrod with new material, hopefully sourced locally. I know it doesn't have to be very strong, so maybe hardware grade aluminium might be OK for the 10 mm rod replacement? I could also possibly source the flattish rectangular product Europa uses on the door sill shoulder width mod, but I don't know its dimensions or what it is made of. I am open to an requesting any ideas/suggestions on how I should overcome this without international postage on a 1 m long item, a fortune. Thanks. Reg Tony Renshaw P.S. The 10 mm diameter is an issue of itself, as I don't seem to be able to get that size locally, but I do have a mate with a lathe, so if I bought 1/2" we could turn it down. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "craigb" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>
Subject: Aussie floods
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Not sure about them, but Brisbane is going to flood tonight and tomorrow, the dams are all at about 180% capacity So they have to do a big dump of water today ( the extra 90% was for flood mitigation built in after the 1974 floods) From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: Tuesday, 11 January 2011 6:02 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aussie floods Kingsley & Lance, I hope you didn't get washed away by the floods. Are you OK. Any news? Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2011
From: keith hickling <keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz>
Subject: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
Hi Richard, I have an Artex ME406 fitted behing the baggage bay, with the antenna inside the fuselage. I have copper strips curving up the side of the fuselage and longditudinally in a square for a groundplane. We have had a number of problems with this ELT in New Zealand: 1) The self-test routine seems to have been made over-sensitive to various problems, and many people have had a "failed" self test saying there is a problem with the antenna or groundplane. Artex finally admitted there was a problem and suggested using a longer length of coax to increase the impedance. Our local avionics man after extensive testing of my unit thinks there might also be a problem with radiation from the antenna supressing the unit from transmission if the antenna is mounted close to the ELT. Apparently the units supplied for helicopters have metal screening of the unit to prevent this. On metal aircraft with the antenna outside the fuselage this is not a problem. It took us many months to get my unit to pass the self-test. 2) There is a problem with the g switches becoming corroded, and several have failed to activate in a crash. We currently have an AD requiring regular checks of the gswitch. Artex are working on this problem. 3) Several helicopters with this unit fitted have had the antenna break off in a crash so the unit has been inoperative. This shouldn't be a problem with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage. In summary, this unit has not been trouble-free in New Zealand, though Artex are working on the problems. Might be worth asking them about progress if you are going to use this unit. Regards, Keith. Keith Hickling, New Zealand. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey Sent: Tuesday, 11 January 2011 10:35 p.m. Subject: Europa-List: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems Greetings from Kenya. I've saved up a few questions for the network, perhaps someone out there can help. 1. New regulations here dictate that we must now all fly with 406 ELT, and especially recommended is the Artex 406 (PLBs will not do here). This requires that for composite aircraft, the skin of the aircraft must have radial metallic strips, 1 inch wide, in the shape of a 6-point star, extending out for 24 inches in all directions. Seems a bit excessive for a Europa, where can we find that space? Behind bagage bay is obvious best bet. Will alumnium strips work (I have sticky aluminium tape, 2" wide). Has anyone fitted this arrangement? Does anyome have a mod approval, STC or something for the Artex 406 installation in a Europa, that I can wave at aviation officialdom here? 2. My tailwheel goes through bearings at the rate of knots, must be our dusty runways. But it is costly to fit new tailwheels, when the tyre itself is fine. Has anyone tried to fit the bearings available from Aircraft Spruce into the Europa tailwheel? 3. Two weeks ago I got into the Europa (Classic, 912UL), started up, and had very rough running. Under the hood, found that the left carb was leaking back through the connection to the plenum chamber, theres a small hole for water clearance, and fuel was pouring onto the ground. Further investigation revealed that all this seems to be because of an overflowing float chamber. The float 'needle' (with viton tip) looks absolutely clean, no grooves on its face, but no adjustment of the float bracket will stop the flow. The floats are fine. Has anyone had this problem after just 500 hours of flying? The fuel goes through an Andair gascolator upstream, so I am not sure what contamination caused this. Thanks, and all best to all for the New Year! Richard Europa 168, Kenya. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Door shootbolt rod material
Date: Jan 11, 2011
Tony, I have an original 1m X 10mm length of boltshoot aluminum rod. It seems like 2024 or 6061 would be the most likely candidates. Probably worth all of $2. I'd be happy to forward the rod to you for the cost of shipping, but that probably exceeds the value by 3 or 4 times. It's up to you. Check six, Bob Borger http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914 rlborger(at)mac.com Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jan 11, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Hi, > In the process of attempting to nominally increase the length of the aft shootbolt throw, I cut the rod and sleeved it, but it now catches within the sill as it actuates. I think I might just replace the pushrod with new material, hopefully sourced locally. I know it doesn't have to be very strong, so maybe hardware grade aluminium might be OK for the 10 mm rod replacement? I could also possibly source the flattish rectangular product Europa uses on the door sill shoulder width mod, but I don't know its dimensions or what it is made of. > I am open to an requesting any ideas/suggestions on how I should overcome this without international postage on a 1 m long item, a fortune. > > Thanks. > Reg > Tony Renshaw > P.S. The 10 mm diameter is an issue of itself, as I don't seem to be able to get that size locally, but I do have a mate with a lathe, so if I bought 1/2" we could turn it down. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Door shootbolt rod material
Tony=0Athe material as supplied was not very strong anyway, so store bought rod should =0Abe OK. However have a look at the way Paul McAllister did it . We used 2024 sheet =0Ainstead of slotting the rather soft rod. Much stron ger.=0A=0AAlso we put bushes in the door surounds too which the old manual doesn't do=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Tony R enshaw =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: W ednesday, 12 January, 2011 0:50:26=0ASubject: Europa-List: Door shootbolt r aw268(at)gmail.com>=0A=0AHi,=0AIn the process of attempting to nominally incre ase the length of the aft =0Ashootbolt throw, I cut the rod and sleeved it, but it now catches within the =0Asill as it actuates. I think I might just replace the pushrod with new material, =0Ahopefully sourced locally. I kno w it doesn't have to be very strong, so maybe =0Ahardware grade aluminium m ight be OK for the 10 mm rod replacement? I could also =0Apossibly source t he flattish rectangular product Europa uses on the door sill =0Ashoulder wi dth mod, but I don't know its dimensions or what it is made of. =0A=0AI am open to an requesting any ideas/suggestions on how I should overcome this =0Awithout international postage on a 1 m long item, a fortune. =0A=0A=0ATh anks.=0AReg=0ATony Renshaw=0AP.S. The 10 mm diameter is an issue of itself, as I don't seem to be able to get =0Athat size locally, but I do have a ma te with a lathe, so if I bought 1/2" we =0Acould turn it down. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Hi Richard, So you are still surviving the draconian regulations that now exist in Kenya! I converted my Mono to a Trigear a long time ago but I do remember having problems with the original tail wheel bearings. I returned the first wheel to Europa because it had grumbly/ sticking bearings from new. The replacement wheel was just the same so I took the bearings apart and it was obvious they were very inferior. The balls looked like lumps of lead shot rather than ground balls. I replaced them with the Aircraft Spruce bearings and never had a problem after that. Best regards Brian Davies From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey Sent: 11 January 2011 09:35 Subject: Europa-List: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems Greetings from Kenya. I've saved up a few questions for the network, perhaps someone out there can help. 1. New regulations here dictate that we must now all fly with 406 ELT, and especially recommended is the Artex 406 (PLBs will not do here). This requires that for composite aircraft, the skin of the aircraft must have radial metallic strips, 1 inch wide, in the shape of a 6-point star, extending out for 24 inches in all directions. Seems a bit excessive for a Europa, where can we find that space? Behind bagage bay is obvious best bet. Will alumnium strips work (I have sticky aluminium tape, 2" wide). Has anyone fitted this arrangement? Does anyome have a mod approval, STC or something for the Artex 406 installation in a Europa, that I can wave at aviation officialdom here? 2. My tailwheel goes through bearings at the rate of knots, must be our dusty runways. But it is costly to fit new tailwheels, when the tyre itself is fine. Has anyone tried to fit the bearings available from Aircraft Spruce into the Europa tailwheel? 3. Two weeks ago I got into the Europa (Classic, 912UL), started up, and had very rough running. Under the hood, found that the left carb was leaking back through the connection to the plenum chamber, theres a small hole for water clearance, and fuel was pouring onto the ground. Further investigation revealed that all this seems to be because of an overflowing float chamber. The float 'needle' (with viton tip) looks absolutely clean, no grooves on its face, but no adjustment of the float bracket will stop the flow. The floats are fine. Has anyone had this problem after just 500 hours of flying? The fuel goes through an Andair gascolator upstream, so I am not sure what contamination caused this. Thanks, and all best to all for the New Year! Richard Europa 168, Kenya. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Aussie floods
Kingsley's OK but I don't know about Lance=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0AFrom: craigb <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>=0ATo: europ a-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 12 January, 2011 1:40:31=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Aussie floods=0A=0A =0ANot sure about them, but Brisbane is going to flood tonight and tomorrow, the =0Adams are all at about 180% c apacity=0ASo they have to do a big dump of water today ( the extra 90% was for flood =0Amitigation built in after the 1974 floods)=0A =0AFrom:owner-eu ropa-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronic s.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: Tuesday, 11 January 2011 6:02 PM=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Aussie floods=0A =0AKingsley & Lance,=0AI hope you didn't get washed away by the floods. Ar e you OK. Any news?=0AGraham=0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator ?Europa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contr -======================== ================== =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Richard, I had the same problem with the tailwheel bearings. I replaced them with the ACS ones (P/N 06-00060). Removing the old bearings requires heating the wheel with an hair dryer to soften the glue while you are hammering the bearing outside. I also replaced the Europa supplied plastic spacers with a steel tube (ACS P/N 03-04100). This tube fits perfectly inside the bearings without any machining. The steel tube is longer than the width of the wheel + 2 washers so that when you tight the 3/8 bolt, you do not put any strain on the bearings. Glue the bearing with Loctite 603. My original bearings had about 800 hours and were completely worn out. The new ones have only a few dozens hours and work just fine. Regards Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326656#326656 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Door shootbolt rod material
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Oh goodie, I get to play metallurgist (again). First, as noted in the exchange, strength is not the issue. A wooden dowel (not recommended!!) would probably be adequate for this job. Any aluminum alloy will work just fine so select whatever is at hand or readily available, and in this case either 6061 or 6063 would be a good choice. 2024 is a higher strength alloy and would also be fine if it is conveniently available but otherwise not worth the slight extra cost. The real advantage to Paul=99s approach is the ease with which the =9Cfork=9D can be fabricated (does the manual still call for using a hack saw to cut the slot?) not the alloy used. Second, keep in mind that within the usual range of alloying elements any metal=99s modulus of elasticity (how much it deflects for a given applied force, in other words its =9Cstiffness=9D) is constant, while the tensile strength can vary dramatically for different alloys. Because of its length, the aft shoot-bolt must be sufficiently stiff or it could deflect and bind in the bushing, and apparently there are no examples of this being a problem =93 changing the aluminum alloy would have no effect. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics soon From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:07 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shootbolt rod material Tony the material as supplied was not very strong anyway, so store bought rod should be OK. However have a look at the way Paul McAllister did it. We used 2024 sheet instead of slotting the rather soft rod. Much stronger. Also we put bushes in the door surounds too which the old manual doesn't do Graham _____ From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, 12 January, 2011 0:50:26 Subject: Europa-List: Door shootbolt rod material Hi, In the process of attempting to nominally increase the length of the aft shootbolt throw, I cut the rod and sleeved it, but it now catches within the sill as it actuates. I think I might just replace the pushrod with new material, hopefully sourced locally. I know it doesn't have to be very strong, so maybe hardware grade aluminium might be OK for the 10 mm rod replacement? I could also possibly source the flattish rectangular product Europa uses on the door sill shoulder width mod, but I don't know its dimensions or what it is made of. I am open to an requesting any ideas/suggestions on how I should overcome this without international postage on a 1 m long item, a fortune. Thanks. Reg Tony Renshaw P.S. The 10 mm diameter is an issue of itself, as I don't seem to be able to get that size locally, but I do have a mate with a lathe, so if I bought 1/2" we could turn it down. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: inner diameter fuel hose
From: "europapa" <jubu(at)onlinehome.de>
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Hi Remi, thank you for this information. I want also thank you for your very informative article in the Europa Flyer. I wouldn'thad expected an simple hairdryer that effective. What do you think about using two dryers for each hole? Juergen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326684#326684 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "p-a.austin" <p-a.austin(at)xnet.co.nz>
Subject: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
Date: Jan 13, 2011
Hello Richard, I also have a Artex ME406 fitted in my Europa, today just completed my third annual and it tested fine, though two others on the field with the same model ELT have had failures, the G switch as Keith mentioned, the AD in this country now requires a 6 month check of the unit until Artex gets it sorted. My Antenna is mounted immediately behind my extended bagage bay, Pilot side, the ground plane is a round plate of Aluminium mounted on a fibre glass bracket which lets the right angled coax connection mate to the antenna (just) and allows the ground plane to extend over the rudder cable, the control unit is mounted aft of that, amidships, immediately forward of my Txponder top-hat type antenna which is mounted forward of the Tailplane mass balance guide. Alluding to what Keith said I used the coax that came with the unit, its full length, I did not cut it but curled it up and cable tied. I have never had a problem of any sort with this unit from day dot. Regards Peter ZK-ZEB. fuselage. I have copper strips curving up the side of the > fuselage and longditudinally in a square for a groundplane. We have had > a number of problems with this ELT in New Zealand: > > 1) The self-test routine seems to have been made over-sensitive to > various problems, and many people have had a "failed" self test saying > there is a problem with the antenna or groundplane. Artex finally > admitted there was a problem and suggested using a longer length of coax > to increase the impedance. Our local avionics man after extensive > testing of my unit thinks there might also be a problem with radiation > from the antenna supressing the unit from transmission if the antenna is > mounted close to the ELT. Apparently the units supplied for helicopters > have metal screening of the unit to prevent this. On metal aircraft with > the antenna outside the fuselage this is not a problem. It took us many > months to get my unit to pass the self-test. > > 2) There is a problem with the g switches becoming corroded, and several > have failed to activate in a crash. We currently have an AD requiring > regular checks of the gswitch. Artex are working on this problem. > > 3) Several helicopters with this unit fitted have had the antenna break > off in a crash so the unit has been inoperative. This shouldn't be a > problem with the antenna mounted inside the fuselage. > > In summary, this unit has not been trouble-free in New Zealand, though > Artex are working on the problems. Might be worth asking them about > progress if you are going to use this unit. > > Regards, > Keith. > > > Keith Hickling, > New Zealand. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard > Lamprey > Sent: Tuesday, 11 January 2011 10:35 p.m. > Subject: Europa-List: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems > > Greetings from Kenya. I've saved up a few questions for the network, > perhaps someone out there can help. > > 1. New regulations here dictate that we must now all fly with 406 ELT, > and especially recommended is the Artex 406 (PLBs will not do here). > This requires that for composite aircraft, the skin of the aircraft must > have radial metallic strips, 1 inch wide, in the shape of a 6-point > star, extending out for 24 inches in all directions. Seems a bit > excessive for a Europa, where can we find that space? Behind bagage bay > is obvious best bet. Will alumnium strips work (I have sticky aluminium > tape, 2" wide). Has anyone fitted this arrangement? Does anyome have a > mod approval, STC or something for the Artex 406 installation in a > Europa, that I can wave at aviation officialdom here? > > 2. My tailwheel goes through bearings at the rate of knots, must be our > dusty runways. But it is costly to fit new tailwheels, when the tyre > itself is fine. Has anyone tried to fit the bearings available from > Aircraft Spruce into the Europa tailwheel? > > 3. Two weeks ago I got into the Europa (Classic, 912UL), started up, > and had very rough running. Under the hood, found that the left carb > was leaking back through the connection to the plenum chamber, theres a > small hole for water clearance, and fuel was pouring onto the ground. > Further investigation revealed that all this seems to be because of an > overflowing float chamber. The float 'needle' (with viton tip) looks > absolutely clean, no grooves on its face, but no adjustment of the float > bracket will stop the flow. The floats are fine. Has anyone had this > problem after just 500 hours of flying? The fuel goes through an Andair > gascolator upstream, so I am not sure what contamination caused this. > > Thanks, and all best to all for the New Year! > > Richard > Europa 168, Kenya. > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door shootbolt rod material > > > Tony, > > I have an original 1m X 10mm length of boltshoot aluminum rod. It seems > like 2024 > or 6061 would be the most likely candidates. Probably worth all of $2. > I'd > be happy to forward the rod to you for the cost of shipping, but that > probably > exceeds the value by 3 or 4 times. It's up to you. > > Check six, > Bob Borger > http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL > Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914 > rlborger(at)mac.com > Cel: 817-992-1117 > > > On Jan 11, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> In the process of attempting to nominally increase the length of the aft >> shootbolt > throw, I cut the rod and sleeved it, but it now catches within the sill > as it actuates. I think I might just replace the pushrod with new > material, hopefully > sourced locally. I know it doesn't have to be very strong, so maybe > hardware > grade aluminium might be OK for the 10 mm rod replacement? I could also > possibly source the flattish rectangular product Europa uses on the door > sill > shoulder width mod, but I don't know its dimensions or what it is made of. >> I am open to an requesting any ideas/suggestions on how I should overcome >> this > without international postage on a 1 m long item, a fortune. >> >> Thanks. >> Reg >> Tony Renshaw >> P.S. The 10 mm diameter is an issue of itself, as I don't seem to be able >> to > get that size locally, but I do have a mate with a lathe, so if I bought > 1/2" > we could turn it down. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Insurance
Date: Jan 13, 2011
For anyone coming up to insurance renewal in the UK it may be of interest that Traffords have just quoted 999 (on the basis of 40k value + 2.5k trailer) whilst Haywards have quoted well over 200 more Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Monowheel speed kit question
From: "jpg12305" <jpg.comm(at)laposte.net>
Date: Jan 15, 2011
I recently purchased from Europa the outrigger mechanisms fairings (parts SK4) for my Classic monowheel. Unfortunately the fairings do not fit well to the underwing profile, and it seems some rework is necessary. [Evil or Very Mad] Has anyone met this issue? Advice to fix this will be welcome. Jean-Paul MW 334 LFEF - France Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327100#327100 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2011
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
On 01/11/2011 10:34 AM, Richard Lamprey wrote: > Greetings from Kenya. I've saved up a few questions for the network, > perhaps someone out there can help. > > 1. New regulations here dictate that we must now all fly with 406 > ELT, and especially recommended is the Artex 406 (PLBs will not do > here). This requires that for composite aircraft, the skin of the > aircraft must have radial metallic strips, 1 inch wide, in the shape > of a 6-point star, extending out for 24 inches in all directions. > Seems a bit excessive for a Europa, where can we find that space? > Behind bagage bay is obvious best bet. Will alumnium strips work (I > have sticky aluminium tape, 2" wide). Has anyone fitted this arrangement? I had the Artex 406 ELT fitted in my aircraft (until an adaption of the regulation made the use of a certain PLB possible, and I replaced the Artex by a PLB). The Artex was working fine though. I had it placed on an aluminium mount directly behind the bagage bay D-panel, with the antenna inside the fuselage on top of the Artex-unit itself, connected via a short coax cable. It took some work to get the mount to double duty as a ground plane for the antenna. I had to install ONE(!) radial which I tuned on 121.500 MHz. The radial is a 1/2 inch strip of aluminium with drilled holes in it. The whole setup is sturdy but light weight. (For the technically interested reader: the tuned radial is an acceptable trick. Instead of a ground plane of random dimension, you can use ONE thin straight "ground plane" strip, provided you tune it to a specific length. As seen through the eyes of the Artex, the antenna is now no longer a 1/4 wave on a ground plane, but a center fed 1/2 wave. Although it looks very different to the human eye, technically it is similar to the COM antenna in the tail, which is also a center fed 1/2 wave without ground plane. I used the original Artex antenna for this setup as one "half" of the antenna. The Artex sees a 50 ohms impedance and is perfectly happy with it, as its diagnostic test indicates. To be even more correct, the antenna also needs to be in tune at 406 MHz. This is achieved by giving one leg of the mount the correct resonance length for 406 MHz.) I think this is the best solution. The aluminium mount works as a "shock absorber", and by mounting the antenna on the unit itself, it gives the best chances that in a fuselage scattering crash the unit and the antenna don't get separated. If you are interested, I have the mount still lying on my bench, and I'm willing to ship it if you care for the shipping costs. I can also photograph it, but to fit the thing in the curved fuselage I had to shape everything to fit, and it is hard to describe exactly the angles and curves of the aluminium, and if you reproduce it chances are that it won't work unless you have the tuning tools and experience yourself (but in that case you weren't asking about it anyway). One final comment: The installation calls for a switch with an indicator, and a connection to a power supply. The external power supply is ONLY used for feeding the diagnostic LED. It is a shame that this external power is mandatory, as it requires a non-switched "life" wire, something you not exactly desire if you are lying in a puddle of fuel after the crash. So solve this matter, I installed a resistor of 1K in series with the power supply. This limits the current to 12 mA, not sufficient to burn anything or even cause a spark, but enough to lit the LED and make the authorities happy. Frans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug>
Subject: ELTs, tailwheel bearings, carb problems
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Many thanks to everyone who responded to my message: Brian - many thanks, useful info, I'll fit the Aircraft Spruce berarings, and monitor. Still here in Kenya, weather great, bureaucracy awful. Re aviation, all former Permit aircraft are now on a Restricted C of A (since 3 years), and under this category such aircraft 'may not make international flights', which locks us all into Kenya. I assume that the aircraft becomes unairworthy once it crosses the border. This affects 50 aircraft, 15% of the Kenya civil fleet, but it only seems a few are interested to travel to neigbouring Tanzania or Uganda, or further afield. I suspect that there are many kitfoxes and similar in the remote ranches who no longer bother with CofAs and all that. I used my Europa for commuting to Uganda, and no longer can, hence last year did only 6 hours in it. For my wildlife projects in Uganda and Tanzania I now have to hire a Cessna, and 4 time the cost. Remi- thanks for the info. I'll try the AS option above, but will test performance, and bear your recommendation in mind. Peter and Keith in New Zealand, re Artex 406. Thanks for very much for your help. Are your antenna(e) internally mounted? And Peter, the groundplane plate is a flat plate, and the diameter and thickness? I think the Artex 406 system has many problems as you indicate.... here in Kenya, an Artex went off in a parked Cessna, 100 m from the control tower of our busiest airport Wilson. The signal was picked up and reported (apparently) by a passing British Airways boeing. The ELT bleeped away for a week with various people running around the wider countryside of Kenya before someone peered out of the tower and realized it was just there... Tells you alot about many things... Thanks again, all best Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Monowheel speed kit question
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Bonjour Jean Paul, I had to rework my fairings too: heat with an hair dryer and slightly change the camber of the flange as required. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327259#327259 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Subject: Engine preheating
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Juergen, The key to the effectiveness of the described method is to force the hot air around the cylinders fins through the Rotax air baffle. Blowing hot air through the two other holes of the XS Europa cowling would be a lot less effective to heat the engine. It also would mean a higher temperature under the cowling and possibly too much heat on the engine electronic components. Remi <<<>>> Juergen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Engine preheating
Might be more effective to heat the oil and the coolant via the radiators, then =0Ahope for a bit of convection?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>=0ATo: Europ a-List Digest Server =0ASent: Monday, 17 January , 2011 9:26:54=0ASubject: Europa-List: Engine preheating=0A=0A=0AJuergen, =0A=0AThe key to the effectiveness of the described method is to force the hot air =0Aaround the cylinders fins through the Rotax air baffle. Blowing hot air through =0Athe two other holes of the XS Europa cowling would be a lot less effective to =0Aheat the engine. It also would mean a higher tempe rature under the cowling and =0Apossibly too much heat on the engine electr onic components.=0A=0ARemi=0A=0A=0A=0A<<<From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Engine preheating
Date: Jan 17, 2011
ONE of my volvo=92s had a mains heater system plumbed into the coolant line complete with circulatory pump and a thermostat. It=92s previous owner was the Service Manager for British Leyland which sends a mixed message if ever there was one ! However it was very effective, quick and light weight, Bob Harrison From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 17 January 2011 10:55 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine preheating Might be more effective to heat the oil and the coolant via the radiators, then hope for a bit of convection? Graham _____ From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> Sent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 9:26:54 Subject: Europa-List: Engine preheating Juergen, The key to the effectiveness of the described method is to force the hot air around the cylinders fins through the Rotax air baffle. Blowing hot air through the two other holes of the XS Europa cowling would be a lot less effective to heat the engine. It also would mean a higher temperature under the cowling and possibly too much heat on the engine electronic components. Remi <<<>>> Juergen http://www.m rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">ht --> <http://www.matronics=======%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/ b%3e%3cfont%20col or=> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 17, 2011
For the assembled wisdom I have a little slop in the main spar pins when I put them into each bushing separately - "a little slop" means when I wiggle the spar pins the ends move about 1/32. There is no slop when the whole thing is assembled and the pins are a light push fit. Is this normal? Will ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Sounds OK to me William=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______=0AFrom: William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>=0ATo: europa-list@mat ronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 13:19:05=0ASubject: Europa-List : Main wing bushings=0A=0A=0AFor the assembled wisdom=0A =0AI have a little slop in the main spar pins when I put them into each bushing =0Aseparately =93 =9Ca little slop=9D means when I wiggle the spar pin s the ends move =0Aabout 1/32.=0A =0AThere is no slop when the whole thing is assembled and the pins are a light push =0Afit.=0A =0AIs this normal?=0A ================ =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Mine is exactly the same. In fact, I remember before doing the weight increase mod I put one of the brand new bushes on the brand new spar pins and was surprised by how much it wobbled about. But when the spars are rigged together (4 bushes in line) there's no play whatsoever when the pin(s) are through them all. I think it is normal. -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327312#327312 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
First, the (black bolt)pins are undersize, (pip pins are spot on and the bu shes =0Apretty good)=0AThe tightness is cause by miss alignment of the bush es, both linear and angular. =0APoor jigging in the factory using the black bolts. =0A=0A=0AAvoid using a reamer to line them up, if they are bad warm up the redux and =0Aremove the miss aligned ones then rebond using better size pins for jigging.=0AJust do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat back, they really =0Aare better with a loose fit because they increase loads on the wings with G =0Aforces. THe glider wing is different isn't it, (not seen one recently)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________ ________=0AFrom: JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@ matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 18:51:28=0ASubject: Europa-L th" =0A=0AMine is exactly the same. In fact, I remember before doing the weight increase =0Amod I put one of the brand new bushes on the brand new spar pins and was =0Asurprised by how much it w obbled about. But when the spars are rigged together =0A(4 bushes in line) there's no play whatsoever when the pin(s) are through them =0Aall. I thi nk it is normal.=0A=0A--------=0AG-TERN=0AClassic Mono=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead t his topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3 = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Phew J I had visions of yet another rework Will From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 17 January, 2011 14:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings First, the (black bolt)pins are undersize, (pip pins are spot on and the bushes pretty good) The tightness is cause by miss alignment of the bushes, both linear and angular. Poor jigging in the factory using the black bolts. Avoid using a reamer to line them up, if they are bad warm up the redux and remove the miss aligned ones then rebond using better size pins for jigging. Just do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat back, they really are better with a loose fit because they increase loads on the wings with G forces. THe glider wing is different isn't it, (not seen one recently) Graham _____ From: JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 18:51:28 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Mine is exactly the same. In fact, I remember before doing the weight increase mod I put one of the brand new bushes on the brand new spar pins and was surprised by how much it wobbled about. But when the spars are rigged together (4 bushes in line) there's no play whatsoever when the pin(s) are through them all. I think it is normal. -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327312#327312 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List _ent also available via the Web -Matt Dralle, List Admin.====== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electrical Question (Basic)
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Just a couple of basic questions (my electrics knowledge is very basic) I'm wiring up my new secondhand Rotax - upgrading my plane from a previously installed car engine conversion. 95% of the aircraft wiring aft of the firewall is common to both thank goodness but I have a question about the alternator switch. My panel currently has a combined double battery/ alternator switch unit - one of the red coloured double rocker type switch units exactly as found in Cessna 150's - in fact it has "Cessna" printed on the case. My previous set up had a battery solenoid (still keeping that) but the car-type alternator output was controlled by switching the field on/ off via the alternator switch. Thus both switches had very low load through them. My limited understanding is that the Rotax does not have a separate field like a conventional alternator and so the output from the regulator must all go direct to the positive bus via the alternator switch. My question is - can anyone advise if this Cessna switch is man-enough for the job? - it has no rating markings on it and I can't find it in any catalogues to check it's rating. (It looks pretty chunky but size isn't everthing so to speak). Do other people use these or is it best to have separate switch units? Second quick question - the manual advises to connect a diode across the starter solenoid coil. Do people bother to do this? If so, can anyone advise a neat and easy way of physically connecting it. I have one and can think of several ways of bodging it up but would much prefer a professional looking solution. Thanks in advance - any help appreciated! Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327315#327315 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 17, 2011
MY perception is that the bushings are quite soft which seems strange to me Will From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 17 January, 2011 14:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings First, the (black bolt)pins are undersize, (pip pins are spot on and the bushes pretty good) The tightness is cause by miss alignment of the bushes, both linear and angular. Poor jigging in the factory using the black bolts. Avoid using a reamer to line them up, if they are bad warm up the redux and remove the miss aligned ones then rebond using better size pins for jigging. Just do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat back, they really are better with a loose fit because they increase loads on the wings with G forces. THe glider wing is different isn't it, (not seen one recently) Graham _____ From: JonSmith <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 18:51:28 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Mine is exactly the same. In fact, I remember before doing the weight increase mod I put one of the brand new bushes on the brand new spar pins and was surprised by how much it wobbled about. But when the spars are rigged together (4 bushes in line) there's no play whatsoever when the pin(s) are through them all. I think it is normal. -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327312#327312 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List _ent also available via the Web -Matt Dralle, List Admin.====== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
At least then they will not "fret" Cheers, Pete A239 On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:33 PM, William Daniell wrote: > MY perception is that the bushings are quite soft which seems strange to me > > Will > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Electrical Question (Basic)
From: Europa <europa(at)pstewart.f2s.com>
Jon I was told not to bring the full alternator current to the panel to any sort of switch. I have therefore used an engine bay mounted relay rated at 30amps (I think) which I switch from an alternator switch on the panel. Diodes I connected using AMP crimp ring terminals Regards Paul G-GIDY On 17/1/11 19:25, "JonSmith" wrote: > > Just a couple of basic questions (my electrics knowledge is very basic) > > I'm wiring up my new secondhand Rotax - upgrading my plane from a previously > installed car engine conversion. 95% of the aircraft wiring aft of the > firewall is common to both thank goodness but I have a question about the > alternator switch. > > My panel currently has a combined double battery/ alternator switch unit - one > of the red coloured double rocker type switch units exactly as found in Cessna > 150's - in fact it has "Cessna" printed on the case. My previous set up had a > battery solenoid (still keeping that) but the car-type alternator output was > controlled by switching the field on/ off via the alternator switch. Thus > both switches had very low load through them. > > My limited understanding is that the Rotax does not have a separate field like > a conventional alternator and so the output from the regulator must all go > direct to the positive bus via the alternator switch. My question is - can > anyone advise if this Cessna switch is man-enough for the job? - it has no > rating markings on it and I can't find it in any catalogues to check it's > rating. (It looks pretty chunky but size isn't everthing so to speak). Do > other people use these or is it best to have separate switch units? > > Second quick question - the manual advises to connect a diode across the > starter solenoid coil. Do people bother to do this? If so, can anyone advise > a neat and easy way of physically connecting it. I have one and can think of > several ways of bodging it up but would much prefer a professional looking > solution. > > Thanks in advance - any help appreciated! Jon > > -------- > G-TERN > Classic Mono > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327315#327315 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: www.europaowners.org down?
From: "Martymason" <captainmarty(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Is europaowners.org still down? Perhaps I have a problem on this end? Still building Marty -------- Marty Mason Europa XS Mono 10% Norcross, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327323#327323 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: www.europaowners.org down?
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 17, 2011
yip, still down. cheers, Pete a239 On Jan 17, 2011, at 3:20 PM, "Martymason" wrote: > > Is europaowners.org still down? Perhaps I have a problem on this end? > Still building > Marty > > -------- > Marty Mason > Europa XS Mono > 10% > Norcross, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327323#327323 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Good point! From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen Sent: 17 January, 2011 14:48 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings At least then they will not "fret" Cheers, Pete A239 On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:33 PM, William Daniell wrote: MY perception is that the bushings are quite soft which seems strange to me Will ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
They are, they're aluminium alloy but hard anodized. That's why it's better not =0Ato ream them=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0AFrom: William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics .com=0ASent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 19:33:34=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A=0A=0AMY perception is that the bushings are quite soft which seems strange to me=0AWill=0A =0AFrom:owner-europa-list-server@ matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 17 January, 2011 14:11=0ATo: europa-list@matron ics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A =0AFirst, the (black bolt)pins are undersize, (pip pins are spot on and the bushes =0Apr etty good)=0AThe tightness is cause by miss alignment of the bushes, both l inear and angular. =0APoor jigging in the factory using the black bolts. =0A=0AAvoid using a reamer to line them up, if they are bad warm up the red ux and =0Aremove the miss aligned ones then rebond using better size pins f or jigging.=0AJust do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the sea t back, they really =0Aare better with a loose fit because they increase lo ads on the wings with G =0Aforces. THe glider wing is different isn't it, ( not seen one recently)=0AGraham=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A From:JonSmith =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.co m=0ASent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 18:51:28=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Mai heuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>=0A=0AMine is exactly the same. In fact, I remember before doing the weight increase =0Amod I put one of the brand new bushes o n the brand new spar pins and was =0Asurprised by how much it wobbled about . But when the spars are rigged together =0A(4 bushes in line) there's no play whatsoever when the pin(s) are through them =0Aall. I think it is nor mal.=0A=0A--------=0AG-TERN=0AClassic Mono=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic on line here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327312#327312 =0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A_ent also availab le via the Web -Matt Dralle, List Admin.======= =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0Ahttp ============ =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Engine preheating
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Kenlowe still make these in the UK (engine pre heaters), a bit pricey though at =A3300 or a German company Hot Frog also makes them ' advertised on Ebay for about =A390. I fitted a Kenlowe heater on my car 20 yrs ago ' certainly very effective in the cold weather and claimed to halve engine wear (probably true). Pre heats the engine block to about 85 degrees C. From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: 17 January 2011 13:01 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Engine preheating ONE of my volvo=92s had a mains heater system plumbed into the coolant line complete with circulatory pump and a thermostat. It=92s previous owner was the Service Manager for British Leyland which sends a mixed message if ever there was one ! However it was very effective, quick and light weight, Bob Harrison From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 17 January 2011 10:55 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine preheating Might be more effective to heat the oil and the coolant via the radiators, then hope for a bit of convection? Graham _____ From: Guerner Remi <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> Sent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 9:26:54 Subject: Europa-List: Engine preheating Juergen, The key to the effectiveness of the described method is to force the hot air around the cylinders fins through the Rotax air baffle. Blowing hot air through the two other holes of the XS Europa cowling would be a lot less effective to heat the engine. It also would mean a higher temperature under the cowling and possibly too much heat on the engine electronic components. Remi <<<>>> Juergen http://www.m rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">ht --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Will, and others, The play is because the black pins are undersized about .007 I think. The main pip pin is about .499 so only a tiny amount of play is available. Normally, the oversized bushes allow what appears to be excessive play when the wings are not rigged. When the plane is rigged, those sloppy bushes get hard to align unless you were superman during the cockpit module build up and got the fuselage and wing bushes just perfect. I only have two aircraft that align so well, the wing pins slide in easily, but that is only at 85 degrees and with the tips held just right. Hotter or colder, or with an untrained assistant, it is tougher to push the pins in. So what to do? Since none of us is superman, I many times have re-aligned the bushes on final wing rigging by heating my spare tapered black pin until just too hot to touch, but not sizzle (180F), and ram it home. Let it set overnight and the three bushes get aligned. Once in a while, I do have to put my 1/2 inch reamer into the pilot side hole and knock a thousandth off for a nice hand fit of the pip pin because of the tighter tolerances. Note: There is a good reason for using the pip pin when doing spar alignment, especially on the glider wing retrofit. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of setting our own bushes with the short wings. If we follow the instructions blindly and use just the bolts, you won't quite get perfect alignment. So just heat the pin and help the bushes align. Please do not overheat your existing wing pin and destroy the heat treating. At 6 Gs, you would not believe the shear load on that pin. So don't rip everything out just yet, try a bit of heat and patience. It's worth it. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: William Daniell<mailto:wdaniell(at)etb.net.co> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Europa-List: Main wing bushings For the assembled wisdom I have a little slop in the main spar pins when I put them into each bushing separately - "a little slop" means when I wiggle the spar pins the ends move about 1/32. There is no slop when the whole thing is assembled and the pins are a light push fit. Is this normal? Will http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Question (Basic)
Date: Jan 17, 2011
Jon, Note the electrical section in the build manual (Chapter 25) as well as the Rotax installation manual, brings alternator power to the panel through a 25 amp switch/switch breaker. Like you, I am not comfortable with that. The "Cessna" style split master switch is a low amperage switch. Normally, no more than 5 amps. Here are the options. Wire the C lead of the regulator to the alternator side of the split master switch and continue the wire to a 5 amp breaker on the main bus. When the switch is off, the control circuit input of the regulator is cut and the regulator shuts down. (See the Aeroelectric Connection for wiring techniques.) Now, Ducatti doesn't like this, as the circuit diodes still have power coming in from the dynamo. Normally, you fly with the alternator on all the time, so in a single alternator system, no problem. If you want the alternator power off, it is probably an emergency and who cares about the regulator then. The alternative is to wire the alternator side of the split master switch from a 2-3 amp circuit breaker to a 30 amp automotive relay switch. The relay will keep you from having high amps coming to your finger. I use this method a lot, especially with the dual alternator setup. See www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/> accessories/techniques section. Notice that, the split master switch has a trick. Most of us want the switch to be completely independent, that is, so one can select either the alternator on or off and the master on or off completely independent, but there is a small plastic tab that locks the two sides together. So that both come on, but only one shuts off independently, and the other shuts both off. I take a sharp Exacto knife and trim off the small plastic locking tabs off and have mine completely independent. Just a technique. As for the diode, I have seen guys operate their planes for years without it. However, it is a handy device. When the start switch is disengaged, there is a slight chance that the field around the coil will collapse and cause a reverse current called a fly back, and the diode immediately neutralizes the fly back current. This allows the contactor to separate cleanly and not do a quick open and close during the disengage or hang-up which eventually will burn the start solenoid contacts. It is an oldie but goodie that started in the late '50s when the start solenoid and starter were in close proximity and field shielding and wires were not as good as they are today. Our solenoid has a really small coil and is well separated from other components so the chance of a fly back is diminished, but not eliminated. Use the diode and you should get a longer life out of your solenoid. Again, reference an Aeroelectric Connection article (http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/articles/spikecatcher.pdf ww.matronics.com/aeroelectric/articles/spikecatcher.pdf>) Use a ohm meter or a low power test light to get the diode direction if you can't see the markings and figure out which way the power flows. You can make your own hookups and put a 3/16 inch terminal on the ground end of the diode and on the other end wire the diode end together with the start wire into a spade female connector which connects to the solenoid blade. Cover with heat shrink. Hook the 3/16 inch terminal to the grounded base of the solenoid (grounded to the battery or negative terminal of course). If you get it backwards, you'll know real quick. You'll fry the diode and perhaps see some smoke. My friend Mike says smoke is when the electric genie is released and the magic disappears. Regards, Bud Yerly Europa Tech Assistance Custom Flight Creations, Inc. www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/> (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: JonSmith<mailto:jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Europa-List: Electrical Question (Basic) > Just a couple of basic questions (my electrics knowledge is very basic) I'm wiring up my new secondhand Rotax - upgrading my plane from a previously installed car engine conversion. 95% of the aircraft wiring aft of the firewall is common to both thank goodness but I have a question about the alternator switch. My panel currently has a combined double battery/ alternator switch unit - one of the red coloured double rocker type switch units exactly as found in Cessna 150's - in fact it has "Cessna" printed on the case. My previous set up had a battery solenoid (still keeping that) but the car-type alternator output was controlled by switching the field on/ off via the alternator switch. Thus both switches had very low load through them. My limited understanding is that the Rotax does not have a separate field like a conventional alternator and so the output from the regulator must all go direct to the positive bus via the alternator switch. My question is - can anyone advise if this Cessna switch is man-enough for the job? - it has no rating markings on it and I can't find it in any catalogues to check it's rating. (It looks pretty chunky but size isn't everthing so to speak). Do other people use these or is it best to have separate switch units? Second quick question - the manual advises to connect a diode across the starter solenoid coil. Do people bother to do this? If so, can anyone advise a neat and easy way of physically connecting it. I have one and can think of several ways of bodging it up but would much prefer a professional looking solution. Thanks in advance - any help appreciated! Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327315#327315 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327315#327315> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Thanks Bud,=0Anow why didn't I think of that!=0Aregards=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 18 January, 2011 2:39:04 =0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Main wing bushings=0A=0A =0AWill, and others, =0AThe play is because the black pins are undersized about .007 I think. The main =0Apip pin is about .499 so only a tiny amount of play is availabl e.=0ANormally, the oversized bushes allow what appears to be excessive pla y when the =0Awings are not rigged. =0A=0A=0ANote: There is a good reason for using the pip pin when doing spar alignment, =0Aespecially on the gli der wing retrofit. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury =0Aof setting o ur own bushes with the short wings. If we follow the instructions =0Ablin dly and use just the bolts, you won't quite get perfect alignment. So jus t =0Aheat the pin and help the bushes align.=0A =0APlease do not overheat your existing wing pin and destroy the heat treating. =0AAt 6 Gs, you wou ld not believe the shear load on that pin.=0A =0ASo don't rip everything ou t just yet, try a bit of heat and patience. It's =0Aworth it.=0A =0ARegar ds,=0ABud Yerly ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electrical Question (Basic)
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 18, 2011
Thank you for the info Paul and Bud. Very useful and much appreciated. Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327393#327393 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: The Europa Flyer Trips and Outings page:- Summer Event at
Wickenby (EGNW) Wings and Wheels Air Show June 18th and 19th 2011.
Date: Jan 18, 2011
Hi! all Europe and the UK patrons' Please note there is a small (and obvious typo like" The Kings Speech"!) in the web page address but it gives me chance to sing about it also ! The correct address is:- www.wickenbyairfield.com Full details(and arrival instructions) of the 2011 Wings and Wheels Air Show event will soon to be found on the web page . It's quite possible that the annual event of Project Propeller will also be at Wickenby but the weekend prior on Saturday 11th June so we may get to share the same Marquee the following weekend with more reasonably priced evening entertainment for the Saturday 18th June. Unfortunately our date clashes with Aero Expo at Sywell that weekend so why not have a "flying" visit to Sywell then come over to us for overnight camping and attend the evening event or even do it in reverse leaving us on the Sunday morning for Sywell. Our Air Show plans are "something else" and will be a privilege to watch. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 18, 2011
Thanks Bud Will From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 17 January, 2011 21:39 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Main wing bushings Will, and others, The play is because the black pins are undersized about .007 I think. The main pip pin is about .499 so only a tiny amount of play is available. Normally, the oversized bushes allow what appears to be excessive play when the wings are not rigged. When the plane is rigged, those sloppy bushes get hard to align unless you were superman during the cockpit module build up and got the fuselage and wing bushes just perfect. I only have two aircraft that align so well, the wing pins slide in easily, but that is only at 85 degrees and with the tips held just right. Hotter or colder, or with an untrained assistant, it is tougher to push the pins in. So what to do? Since none of us is superman, I many times have re-aligned the bushes on final wing rigging by heating my spare tapered black pin until just too hot to touch, but not sizzle (180F), and ram it home. Let it set overnight and the three bushes get aligned. Once in a while, I do have to put my 1/2 inch reamer into the pilot side hole and knock a thousandth off for a nice hand fit of the pip pin because of the tighter tolerances. Note: There is a good reason for using the pip pin when doing spar alignment, especially on the glider wing retrofit. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of setting our own bushes with the short wings. If we follow the instructions blindly and use just the bolts, you won't quite get perfect alignment. So just heat the pin and help the bushes align. Please do not overheat your existing wing pin and destroy the heat treating. At 6 Gs, you would not believe the shear load on that pin. So don't rip everything out just yet, try a bit of heat and patience. It's worth it. Regards, Bud Yerly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com>
Subject: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 18, 2011
When I have help with the rigging then it is quite easy to locate the pins in my case=2C although the glider wings are quite a handful or two. But on my own it is more difficult. A couple of years ago I inherited a tapered 1/ 2 inch pin from an aircraft engineer and that works just fine. I tap it in carefully with a plastic hammer=2C and can then insert the pip pin into the other hole with ease. I don't now where one would buy such a tool. Karl From: budyerly(at)msn.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Main wing bushings Date: Mon=2C 17 Jan 2011 21:39:04 -0500 Will=2C and others=2C The play is because the black pins are undersized about .007 I think. The main pip pin is about .499 so only a tiny amount of play is available. Normally=2C the oversized bushes allow what appears to be excessive play when the wings are not rigged. When the plane is rigged=2C those sloppy bushes get hard to align unless you were su perman during the cockpit module build up and got the fuselage and wing bushes just perfect. I only have two aircraft that align so well=2C the wing pins slide in easily=2C but that is only at 85 degrees and with the tips he ld just right. Hotter or colder=2C or with an untrained assistant=2C it is tougher to push the pins in. So what to do? Since none of us is superman=2C I many times have re-aligned the bushes on final wing rigging by heating my spare tapered black pin until just too hot to touch=2C but not sizzle (180F)=2C and ram it home. Let it set overnight and the three bushes get aligned. Once in a while=2C I do have to put my 1/2 inch reamer into the pilot side hole and knock a thousandth off for a nice hand fit of the pip pin because of the tighter tolerances. Note: There is a good reason for using the pip pin when doing spar alignment=2C especially on the glider wing retrofit. Unfortunately we don' t have the luxury of setting our own bushes with the short wings. If we follow the instructions blindly and use just the bolts=2C you won't quite get perfect alignment. So just heat the pin and help the bushes align. Please do not overheat your existing wing pin and destroy the heat treating. At 6 Gs=2C you would not believe the shear load on that pin. So don't rip everything out just yet=2C try a bit of heat and patience. It's worth it. Regards=2C Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: William Daniell To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday=2C January 17=2C 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Europa-List: Main wing bushings For the assembled wisdom I have a little slop in the main spar pins when I put them into each bushin g separately - "a little slop" means when I wiggle the spar pins the ends m ove about 1/32. There is no slop when the whole thing is assembled and the pins are a light pus h fit. Is this normal? Will href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2011
Subject: Re: The Europa Flyer Trips and Outings page:- Summer Event
at Wickenby (EGNW) Wings and Wheels Air Show June 18th and 19th 2011.
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
Hi Bob Project Propeller has Nominated Wickenby for 2011 http://www.projectpropeller.co.uk/ ivor On 18 January 2011 10:42, Bob Harrison wrote: > Hi! all Europe and the UK patrons' > > > Please note there is a small (and obvious typo like" The Kings Speech"!) > in the web page address but it gives me chance to sing about it also ! > > The correct address is:- www.wickenbyairfield.com > > Full details(and arrival instructions) of the 2011 Wings and Wheels Air > Show > event will soon to be found on the web page . > > It's quite possible that the annual event of Project Propeller will also > be > at Wickenby but the weekend prior on Saturday 11th June so we may get to > share the same Marquee the following weekend with more reasonably priced > evening entertainment for the Saturday 18th June. > > Unfortunately our date clashes with Aero Expo at Sywell that weekend so why > not have a "flying" visit to Sywell then come over to us for overnight > camping and attend the evening event or even do it in reverse leaving us on > the Sunday morning for Sywell. Our Air Show plans are "something else" > and > will be a privilege to watch. > > Regards > > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: bonding thermocouples
Date: Jan 18, 2011
Hi Y'all... I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a method for attaching the joined end of a thermocouple to a flat aluminum surface...I've some situations where clamping is not possible...I expect to have temperatures in the 150 to 200 deg. F. range...will be measuring coolant temp at inlet and exit areas of radiators...(non-Rotax powerplant). Thanks, Fred A194 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Date: Jan 19, 2011
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From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: Jan 19, 2011
Subject: bonding thermocouples
Fred, A couple of ideas come to mind. You could fab an aluminum "P" cla mp around the body of the thrermocouple and attached with a screw or pop rivet to the aluminum plate. Alternatley, you can insert the TC into a piece of aluminum tubing which is 1/2" or so longer then body of the TC with an I.D the same as the O.D of the TC. Flatten the extended piece o f tubing, drill a hole and mount as above. Good luck. Erich TrombleyN28 ET Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ Banks Forced to Forgive Credit Card Debt Find Out How Much of Your Debt Can Be Erased. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d37051ad5632cae741st06vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Batteries and fuel systems
Wlliam=0AI can't open your emails, something wrong with your server?=0AGrah am=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: William Daniell < wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>=0ATo: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, 6 September, 2010 21:34:04=0ASubject: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Mono undercarriage
Date: Jan 19, 2011
I am refurbishing some slightly bent bits in my U/C ( bent after an encounter with an unseen dip, while landing in an unprepared farmer's field) and find that the 2 shock absorbers/dampers are pretty much shot. They are 10+ years/800+ hrs old so may simply be suffering from old age (like the pilot!) In looking through the build manual I see that these are described as optional. Does anyone have an educated view of the benefits of fitting them or not ( you can assume that I shall not be landing in too many unprepared fields!) Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mono undercarriage
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Hi David, I also found that my dampers were not in good shape after 800 hours. I was tempted to try without them but decided against it as it seems they also serve as a guide to maintain the rubber block in position. Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327756#327756 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Mono undercarriage
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Remi, Thanks for that. I have been persuaded that it is worth having them and have been offered a pair by 2 people who converted from mono to trike. If you are looking for a cheap set Bob Harrison would no doubt be pleased to give you his for very little. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 8:23 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono undercarriage > > Hi David, > > I also found that my dampers were not in good shape after 800 hours. I was > tempted to try without them but decided against it as it seems they also > serve as a guide to maintain the rubber block in position. > > Regards > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327756#327756 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2011
From: Bill and Sue <billandsue(at)billbell.co.uk>
Subject: 914 Fuel Pumps
When I came to offer up the bits of my fuel pump plumbing I discovered that the inlets to the pumps are no longer 8mm, like the outlets, but 12mm. This was probably changed ages ago but is news to me. I can't see what the benefit is (other than it may be some sort of standard in the car world) but I need to find a 12mm to 8mm pipe joiner. It sounds simple, but I have drawn a blank with the usual suppliers. Anyone been here first and solved this minor irritation? Thanks Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint for instrument panels
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Hi, Does anyone know the product details of the grey paint that is used for instrument panels (especially on gliders). It gives a very hard wearing finish but feels quite soft to touch. If anyone knows the spec, do you have a UK supplier? I'd like to say that I'm putting the finishing touches to my Europa but this is for another project...... Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327764#327764 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Henderson" <europabill(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Europa Owner's website
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Anyone know when the Europa Owners website might be back up? Thanks, Bill A010 Monowheel Classic ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Paint for instrument panels
It's called Nextel, Uk supplier is Haynes in Leicester, (don't have details to =0Ahand Phil) Expensive and is a 3 part mix, best to ask if anyone has some spare.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr om: flyingphil2 =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASe nt: Friday, 21 January, 2011 12:25:03=0ASubject: Europa-List: Paint for ins er(at)lolacars.com>=0A=0AHi,=0A=0ADoes anyone know the product details of the grey paint that is used for =0Ainstrument panels (especially on gliders). It gives a very hard wearing finish =0Abut feels quite soft to touch.=0A=0A If anyone knows the spec, do you have a UK supplier?=0A=0AI'd like to say t hat I'm putting the finishing touches to my Europa but this is =0Afor anoth er project......=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0APhil=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onlin e here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327764#327764=0A ===================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paint for instrument panels
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Fantastic. Many thanks for your help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327771#327771 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Subject: Re: Europa fuel tank - Fluorination service in the USA
Final update: I received my tank, and it and the filler snake looked just fine - no treatment damage. What I thought interesting was that the surface finish of the tank had indeed changed quite significantly from the treatment. Where it was originally a semi-flat surface texture (with some "almost shiny" spots), it was now *very* flat, or "frosty" or almost sand-blasted in texture. So indeed the additional treatment (to the automotive AL level) did obviously make some difference to the surface chemical makeup. Which (in my mind at least) raises the question of whether my tank was treated originally, or was treated to a much lower level. Cheers, Pete On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > A quick update for anyone interested: > > - My tank is enroute back to me (well, not me, but to the UPS store in > Odgensburg NY) > - My shipping costs were approx $100. I included a return shipping label in > the crate for the return trip. (their quotes are FOB their dock) > - The process reportedly was uneventful (no contamination-caused heat > damage) > > - I just received their quote, for anyone else interested the cost is > $33.46 per tank. What a deal! :-) > - Their minimum order charge is $300 - ouch....(I'm still sore) (btw, > that is reduced from $400 for us Europa builders) > - On their quote, they offer "Certificate of Fluorination" for an > additional $90 per *shipment* fwiw. > > So, for any other builders in N.A. who have not yet installed their tank > and were interested, if a group got together the shipping costs would likely > be greater than the actual processing. The only potential tricky part may be > the logistics, to ensure all the tanks got to their dock near the same time. > > I have the quote in .pdf for anyone interested. > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > Ottawa, Canada > > > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Yes, my tank is en-route. As I've been advised from them that if the tank >> is not free of contaminants (I had to clean mine inside and out with >> naphtha/methanol - nasty) it could be damaged in the process (over-heat from >> a reaction with contaminants), I'd recommend that we wait and see how mine >> goes. Also, I've asked them to produce an accurate costing for my tank (and >> filler snake) with the prospect of doing a few more (grouped together) for >> any other builders out there. >> >> One interesting comment by their technical adviser I thought may have some >> merit: when he was examining pictures of my tank for a cost estimate, he >> advised me that all cuts/openings to the tank must be done prior to the >> process, or any exposed freshly cut surface will be an entry point for the >> absorption of fuel into the MDPE plastic. This is because the fluorination >> treatment is only a surface treatment. So if one takes his opinion as >> valid, even if the tanks have been treated to an adequate level by Europa, >> cutting into them after-wards drastically diminishes the treatment's >> effectiveness. >> >> I'll keep the list updated on the outcome of my tank's adventure, and >> group pricing for anybody interested. Of course I won't likely know how >> effective it has been for another 10 years or so :-P >> >> Cheers, >> Pete >> A239 >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> PS - when I asked the cynical question of "how do I know you even did >> anything" I received the following (reassuring?) reply: >> * >> "Regarding your assurance that your tank has been treated properly, we do >> not ship any items to any one of our customers without our QC measures in >> place. Through use of a Thermo Electron Fourier Transform Infrared >> Spectrophotometer (FTIR) the ratio of available hydrogen sites that have >> been replaced with fluorine in comparison to the available hydrogen sites >> that have not been replaced with fluorine can be measured. Every item >> treated by us must pass our QC before it is released for return shipment. " >> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Steve Hagar wrote: >> >>> Peter: >>> >>> Have you sent your tank in yet? I being one who having to "hack my tank >>> out" have a tank that I bought a couple of years ago from Bob Berube. I >>> don't know how long he had it so its processing is questionable. I had been >>> planning on fabricating a metal tank for installation when I got around to >>> it so the new plastic tank has been sitting around to be used as a model. >>> However I may change my mind and put the stock item in it would be good to >>> have the proper processing on it. If the lot charge could be spread over 2 >>> or more tanks it would be beneficial. Please get with me if this is >>> something to be considered. >>> >>> Thank you , >>> >>> Steve Hagar >>> A143 >>> Mesa AZ >>> hagargs(at)earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: 914 Fuel Pumps
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Bill Yes they have been 12mm for many years. I have just found some for the G-IRON rebuild as the old ones were plastic Demon Tweeks Part NoFSEJ100c,@ 3.40 each. They are steel. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Sue Sent: 21 January 2011 11:31 Subject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Pumps When I came to offer up the bits of my fuel pump plumbing I discovered that the inlets to the pumps are no longer 8mm, like the outlets, but 12mm. This was probably changed ages ago but is news to me. I can't see what the benefit is (other than it may be some sort of standard in the car world) but I need to find a 12mm to 8mm pipe joiner. It sounds simple, but I have drawn a blank with the usual suppliers. Anyone been here first and solved this minor irritation? Thanks Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Pumps
From: "Bill & Sue" <Billandsue(at)billbell.co.uk>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Thanks Ian, I looked on the Demon Tweeks website but failed to see them. It rather suggests the doctor was right about my eyes when I had my medical yesterday! We have been meaning to arrange to meet up with you and Irene sometime soon because a) it would be nice and, b) I want to pick your brains & look at your engine installation! Regards Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327794#327794 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Paint for instrument panels
Date: Jan 21, 2011
I think that Nextel is supposed to be pretty nasty stuff to spray. If you don't have the facilities, I think that Matthew Russell can (or at least he used to) spray small items such as instrument pods - probably cheaper than doing it yourself as well - you don't have to buy the minimum order quantity. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: GRAHAM SINGLETON To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Paint for instrument panels It's called Nextel, Uk supplier is Haynes in Leicester, (don't have details to hand Phil) Expensive and is a 3 part mix, best to ask if anyone has some spare. Graham ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paint for instrument panels
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2011
Thanks, It is now looking like sending the panel away is the best plan. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327860#327860 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 24, 2011
In support of Bud and Pete=99s notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 24, 2011
On Jan 24, 2011, at 4:34 AM, G-IANI wrote: > In support of Bud and Pete=92s notes I can confirm that flexing of the > fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the > tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way > that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. BINGO !! This is one of those times when I truly value this forum...I've been following this thread w/ only mild interest...to this non-engineer's mind, the assumed function of the lift pins was primarily to set and maintain the wings' AOA. But Ian's comment got my attention, and I have a newfound appreciation of all the posts leading up to it. =46rom the get go, I've been embedding components within my mono which would facilitate potential conversion to Bob Berube's tail dragger. I'd planned to add the recommended layups intended to transfer LG loads to the fuselage sides which have the effect of stiffening the sides of the fuselage. While I do not have the expertise to comment on the implications such layups may have on the loads ending up on the forward lift pins, I now will hold off on these layups...they can, after all, be easily added in the event the mono-ground handling proves troublesome...I may even get airborne a week earlier! Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 24, 2011
<<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 24, 2011
This topic is a moving target, a lot like fiberglass... Most of the flex of the spars is in the thinner section reaching maximum nearing the spar socket area. The spar at the root does not move, and the forward root rib is really quite stiff, the aft root rib portion is not as high so it tends to flex a bit as stated. The fuselage side on the other hand is a bit flexi. After repairing a couple aircraft, the aircraft flexing spots tend to be the area just behind the rudder pedal step, just forward of the windscreen on hard landings (when the floor flexes), and between the front socket and the spar. Interesting thing is the Redux did not let go in any of the mishaps. Tough stuff. Those looking at conventional gear, we must do considerable work to try to get the landing gear loads closer to the fuselage sides to carry the torsional load of the cantilever gear. The cockpit module seat is not quite up to the task. To get a proper stance on the gear (read as taller in height), the moment between the wheel and the fuselage on rough surfaces is quite high, and a thin beam gear verses a wider gear beam and the actual attach mechanism has to be analyzed and tested properly. All in due time. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan & Ami<mailto:ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings <<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 24, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Not convinced Duncan. The spar resists bending and the leverage is enormous , =0Afrom the centre of lift of the wing 30% span? The load on the root rib s is shear =0Aand some bending of the pins. Don't forget the lift load is a spread load =0Awhereas the spar bending of the tangs is a point load appli ed by the spar pins.=0AYou are right about the stiffening of the fuselage side. We really should have =0Aflexible sockets at the LE as well as the T E.=0AI still believe the lift pins (in the root rib) should carry all the l ift loads =0Aand the spar pins all the bending loads. That's why the tangs needed to be =0Astrengthened on the glider.=0A=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0AFrom: Duncan & Ami <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk .net>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 24 January, 2011 21:5 8:21=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A=0A =0A<<..would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading =0Aof the forward lift pin>>=0A =0AIan,=0AHow does that work, if the lift pins a re designed to carry the lift loads in the =0Afirst place, there being no g reater load available?!=0AActually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift =0Apin that was the issue, resulting in an a dditional bending load (not lift load) =0Abeing applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket =0Athat would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to =0Aaccept that.=0A =0AH owever, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presum es =0Athat the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this =0Adirection) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the =0Aforward and aft portions of the root rib? Let=99s say t hese ribs have equal =0Asection and =98I=99 as the spar, but be ing laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the =0Aelasticity of the unidirect ional spar (in the direction of principal stress), =0Aadded to which the le ngth of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) =0Ais longer th an the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs =0Awill flex more than the spar and it follows that the =9Cleverage=9D effect between =0Athe longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed =0Ato the extent that the spar pins share some lif t load. =0A=0A =0AAs you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be =0Astiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement.=0A =0A Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2=9D) spar pi n holes with =0Athe wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loade d the wing, albeit =0Anot even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the =9Cleverage=9D effect or the spar =0Ahole flexing downwards relati ve to the pin hole in the seat back.=0A =0ARgds.,=0ADuncan McF.=0A =0A =0A- ----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI=0ASe nt: 24 January 201112:34=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Eu ropa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A =0AIn support of Bud and Pete=99 s notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is =0Aimportant. The LA A had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion =0Awould stiff en the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of =0Athe forward lift pin.=0A =0A =0AIan Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours=0AEurop a Club Mods Specialist=0Ae-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0Ah ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A http://forums.matronics.com === =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2011
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
This has sparked an extremely interesting and thought provoking debate. The only real solution is to model the aircraft using Finite Element Analysis to truly see how the airframe moves under differing load conditions. Any Europa builders use FEA? Nigel On 24/01/2011 23:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: > Not convinced Duncan. The spar resists bending and the leverage is > enormous, from the centre of lift of the wing 30% span? The load on > the root ribs is shear and some bending of the pins. Don't forget the > lift load is a spread load whereas the spar bending of the tangs is a > point load applied by the spar pins. > You are right about the stiffening of the fuselage side. We really > should have flexible sockets at the LE as well as the TE. > I still believe the lift pins (in the root rib) should carry all the > lift loads and the spar pins all the bending loads. That's why the > tangs needed to be strengthened on the glider. > > Graham > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Duncan & Ami > *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, 24 January, 2011 21:58:21 > *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings > > <<..would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to > overloading of the forward lift pin>> > > Ian, > > How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift > loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! > > Actually, it was stiffening in *bending* that might restrain rotation > of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending > load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA > were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the > bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. > > However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread > presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar > (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole > system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Lets > say these ribs have equal section and I as the spar, but being > laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the > unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to > which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and > spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, > as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the > leverage effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar > pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins > share some lift load. > > As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this > had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. > > Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2) spar pin > holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently > loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of > the leverage effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to > the pin hole in the seat back. > > Rgds., > > Duncan McF. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *G-IANI > *Sent:* 24 January 201112:34 > *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings > > In support of Bud and Petes notes I can confirm that flexing of the > fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the > tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that > it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > " target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr --> * > ** > > > ** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>
Date: Jan 25, 2011
All this talk of taildraggers has got me interested now ..... The new owners of Europa use FEA. Also, I believe that they have scanned some or all of the aircraft. They would therefore be the best people to do this if they were motivated. Alternatively, this could be achieved through other channels if they were prepared to release the CAD data. It's up them really. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328374#328374 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Anyone chat with them at the Dinner?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________=0AFrom: flyingphil2 <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>=0ATo: europa-l ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011 10:03:43=0ASubject: Eur lyingphil2" =0A=0AAll this talk of taildraggers has g ot me interested now .....=0A=0AThe new owners of Europa use FEA. Also, I believe that they have scanned some =0Aor all of the aircraft. They would therefore be the best people to do this if =0Athey were motivated.=0A=0AAlt ernatively, this could be achieved through other channels if they were =0Ap repared to release the CAD data. It's up them really.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead t his topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3 = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Here is a question with respect to this topic =93 albeit a bit of a sensitive one. But maybe it is the acid test. Is there any experience of this part of the aircraft failing apart? =93 I have heard of other failures but not any failures in this bit. I assume that we have experience on the forum of extreme stress on the airframe amongst the forum members whether deliberately or as a result of turbulence. So I guess the question is =9Cdoes it work in practice?=9D Will From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 25 January, 2011 05:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Anyone chat with them at the Dinner? Graham _____ From: flyingphil2 <ptiller(at)lolacars.com> Sent: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011 10:03:43 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings All this talk of taildraggers has got me interested now ..... The new owners of Europa use FEA. Also, I believe that they have scanned some or all of the aircraft. They would therefore be the best people to do this if they were motivated. Alternatively, this could be achieved through other channels if they were prepared to release the CAD data. It's up them really. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Dunsmuir <EuropaForum(at)comcast.net>
Subject: EuropaOwners
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Just to let everyone know, there is a problem with the Domain name server, not the server. All your files and photo's are fine. I have a backup that was 4 hours old when the DNS stopped linking. The site will be back it's just a matter of when and where. Much more importantly is Jos ok? Hopefully he's just vacationing in Florida. I haven't been able to contact him for a while..... Steve Dunsmuir EuropaOwners ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: EuropaOwners
steve=0AI noticed him on Skype a couple of days ago but haven't talked to h im for a =0Awhile. I'll call him next time I see him there=0AGraham=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Steve Dunsmuir <EuropaFor um(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 25 January , 2011 14:04:35=0ASubject: Europa-List: EuropaOwners=0A=0A--> Europa-List m essage posted by: Steve Dunsmuir =0A=0AJust to let everyone know, there is a problem with the Domain name server, not =0Athe server.=0AAll your files and photo's are fine. I have a backup that was 4 h ours old when =0Athe DNS stopped linking. The site will be back it's just a matter of when and =0Awhere.=0AMuch more importantly is Jos ok? Hopefully he's just vacationing in Florida. =0AI haven't been able to contact him for ======= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Subject: Re: EuropaOwners
Date: Jan 25, 2011
I called him and he is ok and will fix it. Raimo Toivio OH-XRT 200 hrs -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Steve Dunsmuir Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:04 PM Subject: Europa-List: EuropaOwners Just to let everyone know, there is a problem with the Domain name server, not the server. All your files and photo's are fine. I have a backup that was 4 hours old when the DNS stopped linking. The site will be back it's just a matter of when and where. Much more importantly is Jos ok? Hopefully he's just vacationing in Florida. I haven't been able to contact him for a while..... Steve Dunsmuir EuropaOwners browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
From: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Hi I have flown in mountain wave in a valley in the pyrenees. It was bad, my wi fe cried! I hope i never test the plane like that again. But the plane was a nd is fine. Kevin On 25 Jan 2011, at 12:39, "William Daniell" wrote: > Here is a question with respect to this topic =93 albeit a bit of a s ensitive one. But maybe it is the acid test. > > > > Is there any experience of this part of the aircraft failing apart? =93 I have heard of other failures but not any failures in this bit. > > > > I assume that we have experience on the forum of extreme stress on the air frame amongst the forum members whether deliberately or as a result of turbu lence. > > > > So I guess the question is =9Cdoes it work in practice?=9D > > > > Will > > > > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON > Sent: 25 January, 2011 05:11 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings > > > > Anyone chat with them at the Dinner? > Graham > > > > From: flyingphil2 <ptiller(at)lolacars.com> > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011 10:03:43 > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings > > > All this talk of taildraggers has got me interested now ..... > > The new owners of Europa use FEA. Also, I believe that they have scanned s ome or all of the aircraft. They would therefore be the best people to do t his if they were motivated. > > Alternatively, this could be achieved through other channels if they were p repared to release the CAD data. It's up them really. > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
On Tuesday, January 25, 2011, Kevin Challis wrote: > Hi > I have flown in mountain wave in a valley in thepyrenees. It was bad, my wife cried! I hope i never test the plane like that again. But the plane was and is fine. > > Kevin > I had ATC vector me into a big ass'd cloud one time. Instead of responding 'unable' I took the vector. Gee it was bad, really bad. My wife didn't cry but I nearly did. The plane was fine and I was a little smarter. I'm pretty sure I am going to break before my Europa does Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Henderson" <europabill(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: off topic
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Looks like the Europa Owners web site is back up. Bill A010 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Graham, I agree with all that you say, so unsure why you're not convinced. The lift load is spread on the wings, but comes to a point at the lift pins; the stress path being either via the spar and root rib, and/or directly through the wing skin to the root rib (assuming for the argument no lift contribution from the spar pins). I recall that when a Europa wing broke in the early tests, it broke across the D-box (LE of wing) adjacent to the rib (and was subsequently reinforced in that area). Meaning that this part was overstressed, obviously, but the strain at failure (being a material constant) was greatest in this part of the structure (i.e. up to the point of failure, the area around the rib had flexed more than any other part of similar 'I). Duncan. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 24 January 2011 23:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Not convinced Duncan. The spar resists bending and the leverage is enormous, from the centre of lift of the wing 30% span? The load on the root ribs is shear and some bending of the pins. Don't forget the lift load is a spread load whereas the spar bending of the tangs is a point load applied by the spar pins. You are right about the stiffening of the fuselage side. We really should have flexible sockets at the LE as well as the TE. I still believe the lift pins (in the root rib) should carry all the lift loads and the spar pins all the bending loads. That's why the tangs needed to be strengthened on the glider. Graham _____ From: Duncan & Ami <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> Sent: Monday, 24 January, 2011 21:58:21 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings <<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" >http://www.matronics.c================= ====== " target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr --> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> - The Europa-List Email Forum - <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Phil, Those with early ("proper"!!) taildraggers were required by LAA to check that the forward lift pins had not bent, because of suspicion (paranoia?) of overload in bending. None were found bent. I checked mine again at 300 hours (still die-straight, but probably hadn't seen more than 2g in flight (and up to -4g of the wing weight only in landing!). Also at an earlier time, I measured directly the relative bending stiffness of the forward lift pin socket/fuselage combination on a number of Europas, both taildragger, monowheel and one that had not yet had the standard inner fuselage side stiffener built in. There was a lot of variation in this stiffness, with the taildragger sockets being stiffer than the standard build configuration. However, none were as stiff as the rear (non articulated) sockets of the original 1300lb MTWA Classic, albeit the rear lift pin only takes about half of the load of the forward lift pin. Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 Sent: 25 January 2011 10:04 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings All this talk of taildraggers has got me interested now ..... The new owners of Europa use FEA. Also, I believe that they have scanned some or all of the aircraft. They would therefore be the best people to do this if they were motivated. Alternatively, this could be achieved through other channels if they were prepared to release the CAD data. It's up them really. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328374#328374 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Bud, It sounds like you could 'kill two birds with one stone' by adopting the design of fuselage reinforcements that the Swiss taildragger uses. If you've not seen these I'll send you an isometric sketch. Duncan McF -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 24 January 2011 23:09 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings This topic is a moving target, a lot like fiberglass... Most of the flex of the spars is in the thinner section reaching maximum nearing the spar socket area. The spar at the root does not move, and the forward root rib is really quite stiff, the aft root rib portion is not as high so it tends to flex a bit as stated. The fuselage side on the other hand is a bit flexi. After repairing a couple aircraft, the aircraft flexing spots tend to be the area just behind the rudder pedal step, just forward of the windscreen on hard landings (when the floor flexes), and between the front socket and the spar. Interesting thing is the Redux did not let go in any of the mishaps. Tough stuff. Those looking at conventional gear, we must do considerable work to try to get the landing gear loads closer to the fuselage sides to carry the torsional load of the cantilever gear. The cockpit module seat is not quite up to the task. To get a proper stance on the gear (read as taller in height), the moment between the wheel and the fuselage on rough surfaces is quite high, and a thin beam gear verses a wider gear beam and the actual attach mechanism has to be analyzed and tested properly. All in due time. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan <mailto:ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> & Ami Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings <<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> .Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 26, 2011
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Duncan=0Amy problem is with the extra load on the lift pins when the spar b ends, =0Aunnecessary. Maybe the fuse does relax but what's the point of ad ding a heavy =0Abelt when the braces have enough to do already! =0A=0AGraha m=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Duncan & Ami <ami- mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011 22:10:16=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings =0A=0A =0AGraham,=0AI agree with all that you say, so unsure why you =99re not convinced.=0AThe lift load is spread on the wings, but comes to a point at the lift pins; the =0Astress path being either via the spar and r oot rib, and/or directly through the =0Awing skin to the root rib (assuming for the argument no lift contribution from =0Athe spar pins).=0AI recall t hat when a Europa wing broke in the early tests, it broke across the =0AD-b ox (LE of wing) adjacent to the rib (and was subsequently reinforced in tha t =0Aarea).=0AMeaning that this part was overstressed, obviously, but the s train at failure =0A(being a material constant) was greatest in this part o f the structure (i.e. up =0Ato the point of failure, the area around the ri b had flexed more than any other =0Apart of similar =98I).=0A =0A =0A Duncan.=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@m atronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf O f GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 24 January 2011 23:20=0ATo: europa-list@matronic s.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A =0ANot convince d Duncan. The spar resists bending and the leverage is enormous, =0Afrom th e centre of lift of the wing 30% span? The load on the root ribs is shear =0Aand some bending of the pins. Don't forget the lift load is a spread loa d =0Awhereas the spar bending of the tangs is a point load applied by the s par pins.=0AYou are right about the stiffening of the fuselage side. We re ally should have =0Aflexible sockets at the LE as well as the TE. =0A=0AI still believe the lift pins (in the root rib) should carry all the lift loa ds =0Aand the spar pins all the bending loads. That's why the tangs needed to be =0Astrengthened on the glider.=0A=0AGraham=0A =0A=0A_________________ _______________=0A =0AFrom:Duncan & Ami =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 24 January, 2011 21:58:21=0ASubje ct: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A<<..would stiffen the structu re in such a way that it could lead to overloading =0Aof the forward lift p in>>=0A =0AIan,=0AHow does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carr y the lift loads in the =0Afirst place, there being no greater load availab le?!=0AActually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift =0Apin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending l oad (not lift load) =0Abeing applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket =0Athat would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to =0Aaccept that.=0A =0AHowever, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes =0Athat the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this =0Adirecti on) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the =0Aforwa rd and aft portions of the root rib? Let=99s say these ribs have equa l =0Asection and =98I=99 as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the =0Aelasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), =0Aadded to which the length of these flexi ng root ribs (between lift pin and spar) =0Ais longer than the offset betwe en lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs =0Awill flex more than the spar and it follows that the =9Cleverage=9D effect between =0A the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or rev ersed =0Ato the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. =0A=0A =0AA s you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be =0Astiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement.=0A =0APreviously I have p ut a small finger down one of the (1/2=9D) spar pin holes with =0Athe wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit =0Anot even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the =9Cleverage =9D effect or the spar =0Ahole flexing downwards relative to the pin hol e in the seat back.=0A =0ARgds.,=0ADuncan McF.=0A =0A =0A-----Original Mess age-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-eu ropa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI=0ASent: 24 January 2011 12:34=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A =0AIn support of Bud and Pete=99s notes I can confi rm that flexing of the fuselage is =0Aimportant. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion =0Awould stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of =0Athe forward lift pin. =0A =0A =0AIan Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours=0AEuropa Club Mods Speci alist=0Ae-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat ronics.com/contribution=0A =0A =0A =0A" target="_blank" href="http://fo rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr --> =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Europa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronic =========================0A ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Duncan and Graham, As for the wing failure point, the idea was to have the actual wing break before the attachments. Duncan is right, the failure occurs outboard of the root rib. I asked why not an articulated forward socket and a proper attach point with a pin, however a pivoting pinned fitting would then imply that the forward pin if articulated without a pip pin would slide (not good), as the pin slides under bending and the forces are not translated due to the slipping pin I guess. The articulated forward attach was dropped. I guess since the forward root pin is in shear only, and as long as the tolerances during wing construction are met, the pin stays fairly straight, and I am sure under extreme loads, the front pins are pushed into the socket and with the stiffener added, flexing and failures are non existent. The carbon fiber MG spar flexed under load and the more brittle carbon shear web cracked near the outboard wing pin. So the idea Dave and I talked about was simple, there is a bit too much taper in the spar tang and the height of the spar needed to be increased or said another way, the spar now has less taper. It is now massively strong. I prefer the common way of distributing that stress concentration at the rib where the upper skin can collapses under the rib bending, and that is put in a span wise beam or spar to distribute the point load on the rib. The attach point is a horizontal bolt or pin in a proper spar. Also I prefer the beam to go through the fuselage caring the load. Of course it is that much more stuff to build. That said, I am amazed this little airplane has soldiered on without that forward socket ever failing, or the pins. I guess it all works together without the fancy computer programs or stress analysis diagnostic programs or even my original skepticism. The combined attachment points keep things intact extremely well. I was impressed by the latest glider wing tests done by the factory. On the first test the rear pin broke because they grabbed a plain steel one used in shop alignment work and it snapped like a twig. The rear root pin was replaced and one of the guys in haste put a common bolt in the main wing and it sheared like butter. Once all the proper pins were correctly installed (and much egg removed from faces, I'm sure}, the wing with the spar mod went to nearly 9 G's, finally failing in the leading edge D tube area when the upper skin flexed until it collapsed. Not a bit of damage or problem with any of the sockets or the proper wing pins or bushings. So, it works brilliantly and is extremely tough at current load limits imposed. I like it. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan & Ami<mailto:ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Graham, I agree with all that you say, so unsure why you're not convinced. The lift load is spread on the wings, but comes to a point at the lift pins; the stress path being either via the spar and root rib, and/or directly through the wing skin to the root rib (assuming for the argument no lift contribution from the spar pins). I recall that when a Europa wing broke in the early tests, it broke across the D-box (LE of wing) adjacent to the rib (and was subsequently reinforced in that area). Meaning that this part was overstressed, obviously, but the strain at failure (being a material constant) was greatest in this part of the structure (i.e. up to the point of failure, the area around the rib had flexed more than any other part of similar 'I). Duncan. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 24 January 2011 23:20 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Not convinced Duncan. The spar resists bending and the leverage is enormous, from the centre of lift of the wing 30% span? The load on the root ribs is shear and some bending of the pins. Don't forget the lift load is a spread load whereas the spar bending of the tangs is a point load applied by the spar pins. You are right about the stiffening of the fuselage side. We really should have flexible sockets at the LE as well as the TE. I still believe the lift pins (in the root rib) should carry all the lift loads and the spar pins all the bending loads. That's why the tangs needed to be strengthened on the glider. Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Duncan & Ami <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, 24 January, 2011 21:58:21 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings <<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List>http://forums.matronics.com com/>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ibution> " target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr --> <http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e% 3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3 c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic====== =%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic =======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic=======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/ font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic======= %0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=><http://www.matronic= ======%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=>http: //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronic==== ===%0d%0a%0d%0a%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=>http://forums. matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
Date: Jan 25, 2011
Already being done sir. bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan & Ami<mailto:ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:28 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Bud, It sounds like you could 'kill two birds with one stone' by adopting the design of fuselage reinforcements that the Swiss taildragger uses. If you've not seen these I'll send you an isometric sketch. Duncan McF -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 24 January 2011 23:09 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings This topic is a moving target, a lot like fiberglass... Most of the flex of the spars is in the thinner section reaching maximum nearing the spar socket area. The spar at the root does not move, and the forward root rib is really quite stiff, the aft root rib portion is not as high so it tends to flex a bit as stated. The fuselage side on the other hand is a bit flexi. After repairing a couple aircraft, the aircraft flexing spots tend to be the area just behind the rudder pedal step, just forward of the windscreen on hard landings (when the floor flexes), and between the front socket and the spar. Interesting thing is the Redux did not let go in any of the mishaps. Tough stuff. Those looking at conventional gear, we must do considerable work to try to get the landing gear loads closer to the fuselage sides to carry the torsional load of the cantilever gear. The cockpit module seat is not quite up to the task. To get a proper stance on the gear (read as taller in height), the moment between the wheel and the fuselage on rough surfaces is quite high, and a thin beam gear verses a wider gear beam and the actual attach mechanism has to be analyzed and tested properly. All in due time. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan & Ami<mailto:ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings <<.. would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin >> .Ian, How does that work, if the lift pins are designed to carry the lift loads in the first place, there being no greater load available?! Actually, it was stiffening in bending that might restrain rotation of the lift pin that was the issue, resulting in an additional bending load (not lift load) being applied to the forward lift pin. The LAA were offered a spherical socket that would articulate and remove the bending load on the pin, but declined to accept that. However, you are on right path, The earlier discussion in this thread presumes that the spar flexes, as it indeed doe. But actually the spar (loaded in this direction) is the least flexible part of the whole system. What about the forward and aft portions of the root rib? Let's say these ribs have equal section and 'I' as the spar, but being laid-up at +/- 45 degrees have x1.41 the elasticity of the unidirectional spar (in the direction of principal stress), added to which the length of these flexing root ribs (between lift pin and spar) is longer than the offset between lift pins and spar pins. So, as the root ribs will flex more than the spar and it follows that the "leverage" effect between the longitudinal offset of lift pin and spar pin centres is removed, or reversed to the extent that the spar pins share some lift load. As you say, the flexing of the fus side also contributes, albeit this had to be stiffened-up to prevent pin disengagement. Previously I have put a small finger down one of the (1/2") spar pin holes with the wings rigged, while someone else rather violently loaded the wing, albeit not even near to 1g. But there was no hint of the "leverage" effect or the spar hole flexing downwards relative to the pin hole in the seat back. Rgds., Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 24 January 2011 12:34 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings In support of Bud and Pete's notes I can confirm that flexing of the fuselage is important. The LAA had considerable concerns that the tail dragger conversion would stiffen the structure in such a way that it could lead to overloading of the forward lift pin. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa Owner's website
From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>
Date: Jan 26, 2011
IT's BACK! Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328532#328532 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2011
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Who has fuel pipe experiences I can use on Europa-
1/ Europa system with "rubber" hose, I am put off by permeability & 5 yr life, couple of inches of ptfe to link sight gauge considered if I need to fit any flex connections.( replace sight gauge tubewith single capacitance system in uk, I am considering flow measurement also)?. 2/ Versatube -6 3/8"aluminium fuel systems seem good but special tools for flaring, have heard of Swagelock fittings used instead of AN fittings, wouldthey beapproved or fail UK rules. or -3/ Nylaflow Nylon -6 3/8" tubing used with brass (flareless)Polyflow elbows and fittings (with tube ferule inserts) (Listed as fuel pipes pge 103 & 105 aircraft spruce USA 2011 catalogue.(I am aware of history withPTFE fuel pipe static discharge perforations prior to aeroquipe 666 carbon conductive tube, but seems to be due to tracking to stainless steel sheaves, are you aware of any UK restriction on use of Nylon )? For price and durabilitycombination of the above is currently preferred, using Aeroquipe 666 firewall forward with fire sleeve insulation (as per Europa heat insulation mod). Fuel pump Facet 40106 4-6 psi 30 gph, I do not want to install in back of a/c ,I believe x xxxx has his fuel pumps for 914 forward LAA mod approved, ( less fuel line and fittings) any thoughts/objections. The existing Europa fuel tap would be rotated 180 degrees so outlet faces forward &the pump... probably move selector valve vertical and the LH /RH tank inlets would come in on the horizontal (Tri Gear so electric flap actuation, & tunnel is available for pumps and pipes) Fuel filter..I would prefer to fit a single combined gascolator incorporating a large capacity filter firewall forward ( rather than two small filters liable to blockage under seat pans with more joints) I have the Europa modwater drain kit ..pair of drains and would do shortest practical run down and out. Practical experience and facts more than welcome, would prefer to install for 10 to 15 yr durability, also any available club 37 degreeflaring tools? or anyone prepared to purchase as syndicate, or dies I could copyto use withmy brake line flaring kit... Regards Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tacho Wiring?
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jan 27, 2011
Just a quick question - is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho wires to pass through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector that I have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ temp, starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires subject to interference and should thus be routed separately? Also is it advisable for these wires to be shielded or just plain? I'm not talking about the ignition (P) leads, I have those shielded and separate, just the tacho. Many Thanks, Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328681#328681 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 27, 2011
Subject: Re: Tacho Wiring?
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
Hi Jon I have run mine through a CPC bulkhead connector using gold plated machine pins and too date i have had no problems with interference, regards Ivor On 27 January 2011 15:20, JonSmith wrote: > jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk> > > Just a quick question - is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho > wires to pass through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector > that I have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ temp, > starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires subject to > interference and should thus be routed separately? Also is it advisable for > these wires to be shielded or just plain? I'm not talking about the > ignition (P) leads, I have those shielded and separate, just the tacho. > Many Thanks, Jon > > -------- > G-TERN > Classic Mono > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328681#328681 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: firewall penetrations
Date: Jan 27, 2011
On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:20 AM, JonSmith wrote: > is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho wires to pass > through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector that I > have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ > temp, starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires > subject to interference and should thus be routed separately? All, Every so often I read a post which gets my attention and prompts me to reconsider aspects of my build...this is one of them. As I've posted previously, my engine is a MPEFIed derivative ot the Sube EA81which arrived w/ a fully complete and dyno-tested wiring harness in a nice, neat, and tidy bundle with several rectangular 15 and 27 pin Dsub connectors intended to be plugged into the ECU (shock mounted aft of the firewall) and a small control unit to be mounted on the instrument panel. In the process of mounting various sensors on the engine (EGT thermocouples, oil temp. & pressure, coolant temp. & pressure, etc.), I have a second bundle of wires...both bundles, of course, must penetrate the firewall in some manner. With a fair amount of ignorance and naivety, I have been loath to mess with the ECU bundle; consequently, I've cut a slot in the firewall big enough to slide the 27 pin Dsub connector thru and fabbed a cover plate from firewall material which is secured w/ nutplates w/ a hole sufficient for the bundle. A short length of split rubber hose surrounding the bundle is intended to protect the wires from wear against the raw edge of the firewall and cover plate. With regard to the sensor bundle, having been advised to avoid connectors in the thermocouple wires leading to my EMS unit which degrade their accuracy to some degree, I have similarly drilled the firewall and installed a rubber grommet as shown. A couple of photos are attached. Prior to flight test, it's my intention daub on a bit of RTV sealant to stop any air leakage; all of the above appears to be consistent w/ techniques used for firewall penetrations on my 1946 Stinson. Informed comment would be much appreciated. Please be gentle, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: firewall penetrations
Date: Jan 27, 2011
Fred, My DAR, Dennis Carley was fine with the penetrations I had on a Zenith which were similar to yours but metal of course. The Subaru was so dependent on the electrical, he asked that I consider using fire sleeve over the critical fuel injection and ignition wiring especially near the high heat areas and of course seal it all with RTV as you said, to deter fumes and flame penetration. He did not make it mandatory, but asked me to consider it because the harness was automotive wire and not mil spec aviation wire... I looked at other aircraft builder techniques and instead of running the wires through the fire sleeve, I noticed many RV builders slit the fire sleeve and only use it near the firewall and in high temp areas and not over the whole engine. Then they zip tie it... That looks nasty. To seal the slit in the fire sleeve, I recommend F4 tape and RTV F4 tape is a self adhering (non adhesive) silicone tape developed by the military and when pulled is heat resistant and self adhering. I've used it when you forget that piece of heat shrink, and it is awesome, but somewhat expensive. See one of the vendors: http://www.rescuetape.com> or just Google it. My DAR feels like I do that if the fire is bad enough to burn up the military spec wiring, you have more problems than worrying about the insulation of the wires. If you just do, lets say, the 4-6 inches from the firewall penetration with fire sleeve and F4 tape, at least that will ensure the fire and fumes won't get through the firewall. If you have automotive wire, change it or protect it unless it is of the new high temp stuff.... As most of you know I build a large 6x12 D shaped access hole with a flange and shear web reinforcing behind the firewall and fashion a removable panel for access to more quick disconnect plugs at the rear of the instrument panel. Attached to the removable panel, I secure one or two plugs for quick disconnects. It takes me only a few minutes to pull an engine or instrument panel as I try to make everything serviceable. It takes longer to build, but if the engine or instrument panel is easy to remove, you'll benefit from it in the long run. I prefer the metal mil spec plugs as they are highly resistant to everything, but the AMP brand plastic circular plugs are commonly used in my aircraft for firewall penetrations also. They are not fire proof, but with an RTV seal in the wire securing clamp on the rear of the plug to seal it, I believe they hold up well. Like you Fred, I don't like to cut factory bundles, but I will build a transition plug to go through the firewall only because I can build a good and trustworthy plug. For instance, if the EMS plug from the engine to computer has a D Sub, I will look at it and determine if it is worth it for me to build a transition plug from the engine through the firewall rather than drill a big hole. I would like to pull the engine easily, and this means pulling the wire harness with it. Another plug is used for the firewall mounted devices. A D Sub is not fireproof nor is it strong, and so I don't use them as firewall penetrations, especially since you have to cut out the firewall and mount the D Sub to a metal panel anyway because the plug is too short to be attached to the glass. If you decide to build a D Sub firewall transition plug, the purist would glass up an insulated cover or use a small metal cup with a flange for a fireproof cover. That is overkill to me, so go with a hole and proper fire wall penetration cover and put a transition plug behind the firewall for easy panel removal.. I leave the thermocouple wires as supplied by the probe manufacturer (normally a spade), but then inside the airframe, I'll run the rest of the way to the EIS with 20 gauge mil spec wire for CHT and EGT and have had no problem. But one should continue to the EIS with the same wire (thermocouple if the type is known) to the box. Not all manufacturers supply the extra wire and I get away with using regular mil spec aircraft wire without problems from the spades supplied by the factory going to the Engine Management box. Works for me so far. My DAR also does not like nyloc nuts anywhere on the engine. He prefers to use loctite on studs, squeeze nuts or a cotter pins and castle nuts on the engine. Finally, the penetration hole is best sealed with a stainless firewall penetration cover. The type that has a half a hole in each half, but the two haves have a tab that actually overlaps and are secured with screws and nutplates. A grommet cut to slip on the wires along with RTV seals the hole well. Your setup looks like you have a slot which does the same thing but in the fire wall material, so protect the wires and rubber hose with a bit of fire sleeve, and seal it with RTV and go for it. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: firewall penetrations On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:20 AM, JonSmith wrote: > is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho wires to pass > through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector that I > have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ > temp, starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires > subject to interference and should thus be routed separately? All, Every so often I read a post which gets my attention and prompts me to reconsider aspects of my build...this is one of them. As I've posted previously, my engine is a MPEFIed derivative ot the Sube EA81which arrived w/ a fully complete and dyno-tested wiring harness in a nice, neat, and tidy bundle with several rectangular 15 and 27 pin Dsub connectors intended to be plugged into the ECU (shock mounted aft of the firewall) and a small control unit to be mounted on the instrument panel. In the process of mounting various sensors on the engine (EGT thermocouples, oil temp. & pressure, coolant temp. & pressure, etc.), I have a second bundle of wires...both bundles, of course, must penetrate the firewall in some manner. With a fair amount of ignorance and naivety, I have been loath to mess with the ECU bundle; consequently, I've cut a slot in the firewall big enough to slide the 27 pin Dsub connector thru and fabbed a cover plate from firewall material which is secured w/ nutplates w/ a hole sufficient for the bundle. A short length of split rubber hose surrounding the bundle is intended to protect the wires from wear against the raw edge of the firewall and cover plate. With regard to the sensor bundle, having been advised to avoid connectors in the thermocouple wires leading to my EMS unit which degrade their accuracy to some degree, I have similarly drilled the firewall and installed a rubber grommet as shown. A couple of photos are attached. Prior to flight test, it's my intention daub on a bit of RTV sealant to stop any air leakage; all of the above appears to be consistent w/ techniques used for firewall penetrations on my 1946 Stinson. Informed comment would be much appreciated. Please be gentle, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: firewall penetrations
Date: Jan 27, 2011
Bud...thank you for your very responsive and thoughtful post addressing my concerns...followup comments indented below. Fred On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:20 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Fred, > My DAR, Dennis Carley was fine with the penetrations I had on a > Zenith which were similar to yours but metal of course. The Subaru > was so dependent on the electrical, he asked that I consider using > fire sleeve over the critical fuel injection and ignition wiring > especially near the high heat areas and of course seal it all with > RTV as you said, to deter fumes and flame penetration. He did not > make it mandatory, but asked me to consider it because the harness > was automotive wire and not mil spec aviation wire... I'm not sure and have asked the engine builder, Ron Carr, of RAM Performance; he did use all Aeroquip hose and fittings on the plumbing side of things... > I looked at other aircraft builder techniques and instead of running > the wires through the fire sleeve, I noticed many RV builders slit > the fire sleeve and only use it near the firewall and in high temp > areas and not over the whole engine. Then they zip tie it... That > looks nasty. To seal the slit in the fire sleeve, I recommend F4 > tape and RTV > > F4 tape is a self adhering (non adhesive) silicone tape developed > by the military and when pulled is heat resistant and self adhering. Why am I not surprised to learn you endorse "F4" tape? > I've used it when you forget that piece of heat shrink, and it is > awesome, but somewhat expensive. See one of the vendors: http://www.rescuetape.com > or just Google it. > > My DAR feels like I do that if the fire is bad enough to burn up the > military spec wiring, you have more problems than worrying about the > insulation of the wires. That's nice to know...that's exactly what I was thinkin, but was unsure about how close to the razor's edge that kind of thinking was putting me. > If you just do, lets say, the 4-6 inches from the firewall > penetration with fire sleeve and F4 tape, at least that will ensure > the fire and fumes won't get through the firewall. If you have > automotive wire, change it or protect it unless it is of the new > high temp stuff.... Bud...when you say fire sleeve 4-6 inches from the firewall penetration, do you intend that the fire sleeve lines the hole of the FW penetration?...or do you intend that it ends hard against the firewall? > As most of you know I build a large 6x12 D shaped access hole with > a flange and shear web reinforcing behind the firewall and fashion a > removable panel for access to more quick disconnect plugs at the > rear of the instrument panel. Attached to the removable panel, I > secure one or two plugs for quick disconnects. It takes me only a > few minutes to pull an engine or instrument panel as I try to make > everything serviceable. It takes longer to build, but if the engine > or instrument panel is easy to remove, you'll benefit from it in the > long run. I prefer the metal mil spec plugs as they are highly > resistant to everything, but the AMP brand plastic circular plugs > are commonly used in my aircraft for firewall penetrations also. > They are not fire proof, but with an RTV seal in the wire securing > clamp on the rear of the plug to seal it, I believe they hold up > well. Like you Fred, I don't like to cut factory bundles, but I > will build a transition plug to go through the firewall only because > I can build a good and trustworthy plug. For instance, if the EMS > plug from the engine to computer has a D Sub, I will look at it and > determine if it is worth it for me to build a transition plug from > the engine through the firewall rather than drill a big hole. I > would like to pull the engine easily, and this means pulling the > wire harness with it. Another plug is used for the firewall mounted > devices. The lines to my D Subs (which will all be aft of the firewall) are plenty long enough to plug into the ECU and control module on the panel face, so I'm good there. To pull the engine, all I have to do is remove the instrument sub-panel, unplug them, and disconnect a couple of "eyes" bolted to power studs...that seems simple enough...I have so much stuff bolted to both sides of the firewall, a big D shaped access panel thru the firewall isn't in the cards. > A D Sub is not fireproof nor is it strong, and so I don't use them > as firewall penetrations, especially since you have to cut out the > firewall and mount the D Sub to a metal panel anyway because the > plug is too short to be attached to the glass. > If you decide to build a D Sub firewall transition plug, the purist > would glass up an insulated cover or use a small metal cup with a > flange for a fireproof cover. That is overkill to me, so go with a > hole and proper fire wall penetration cover and put a transition > plug behind the firewall for easy panel removal.. > > I leave the thermocouple wires as supplied by the probe manufacturer > (normally a spade), but then inside the airframe, I'll run the rest > of the way to the EIS with 20 gauge mil spec wire for CHT and EGT > and have had no problem. But one should continue to the EIS with > the same wire (thermocouple if the type is known) to the box. Not > all manufacturers supply the extra wire and I get away with using > regular mil spec aircraft wire without problems from the spades > supplied by the factory going to the Engine Management box. Works > for me so far. In my case, my EGT thermocouples came w/ 4 feet of wire ending in 1/4" long pins, so my intention is to clip the pins and wire them directly into the EMS box. The EMS has plenty of unused channels (I'll have no CHTs to measure) so I'm planning on making up some thermocouples to measure inlet/outlet coolant at both rads, along w/ inlet/out air temps at both rads...looks like I'll have a bunch more wires thru the firewall... > My DAR also does not like nyloc nuts anywhere on the engine. He > prefers to use loctite on studs, squeeze nuts or a cotter pins and > castle nuts on the engine. Nor do I...the ones you see in the photo are locally purchsed SS nylocs (the ONLY ones on my airplane) to mate w/ the shock-mount studs I got from mcmaster to mount the overall instrument module to the firewall...I'll be replacing them w/ stiff nuts...I'm using castle nuts & cotter pins on the engine mounting frame. > Finally, the penetration hole is best sealed with a stainless > firewall penetration cover. The type that has a half a hole in each > half, but the two haves have a tab that actually overlaps and are > secured with screws and nutplates. A grommet cut to slip on the > wires along with RTV seals the hole well. Your setup looks like > you have a slot which does the same thing but in the fire wall > material, so protect the wires and rubber hose with a bit of fire > sleeve, and seal it with RTV and go for it. > > Regards, > Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Klein > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:52 PM > Subject: Europa-List: firewall penetrations > > > On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:20 AM, JonSmith wrote: > > > is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho wires to pass > > through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector that I > > have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ > > temp, starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires > > subject to interference and should thus be routed separately? > > All, > > Every so often I read a post which gets my attention and prompts me to > reconsider aspects of my build...this is one of them. > > As I've posted previously, my engine is a MPEFIed derivative ot the > Sube EA81which arrived w/ a fully complete and dyno-tested wiring > harness in a nice, neat, and tidy bundle with several rectangular 15 > and 27 pin Dsub connectors intended to be plugged into the ECU (shock > mounted aft of the firewall) and a small control unit to be mounted on > the instrument panel. > > In the process of mounting various sensors on the engine (EGT > thermocouples, oil temp. & pressure, coolant temp. & pressure, etc.), > I have a second bundle of wires...both bundles, of course, must > penetrate the firewall in some manner. > > With a fair amount of ignorance and naivety, I have been loath to mess > with the ECU bundle; consequently, I've cut a slot in the firewall big > enough to slide the 27 pin Dsub connector thru and fabbed a cover > plate from firewall material which is secured w/ nutplates w/ a hole > sufficient for the bundle. A short length of split rubber hose > surrounding the bundle is intended to protect the wires from wear > against the raw edge of the firewall and cover plate. > > With regard to the sensor bundle, having been advised to avoid > connectors in the thermocouple wires leading to my EMS unit which > degrade their accuracy to some degree, I have similarly drilled the > firewall and installed a rubber grommet as shown. > > A couple of photos are attached. > > Prior to flight test, it's my intention daub on a bit of RTV sealant > to stop any air leakage; all of the above appears to be consistent w/ > techniques used for firewall penetrations on my 1946 Stinson. > > Informed comment would be much appreciated. > > Please be gentle, > > Fred > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: firewall penetrations
Date: Jan 28, 2011
Fred, You're making great progress. It is interesting how the wires multiply. I try to make things simple, but just add one thing and it seems like it's another 100 feet of wire. For the fire sleeve around the wires, your rubber hose for anti-chaffe (is that a word?) is really tight in the photo I see, so I would just shorten the rubber hose up a bit and wrap that up with the fire sleeve and silicone heat tape, then RTV to seal. In practice the DARs prefer the fire sleeve be the grommet material and the end RTV'd. I still prefer a standard metal firewall penetration cover. No questions about it and it covers the hole and provides quick access. Add a dab of RTV and you are good for life. Talk to your engine guy and see what kind of wire spec he has and which is the most critical before doing any shielding of the wires. If it is high temp wire, leave it alone. Off to work. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:51 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: firewall penetrations Bud...thank you for your very responsive and thoughtful post addressing my concerns...followup comments indented below. Fred On Jan 27, 2011, at 6:20 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: Fred, My DAR, Dennis Carley was fine with the penetrations I had on a Zenith which were similar to yours but metal of course. The Subaru was so dependent on the electrical, he asked that I consider using fire sleeve over the critical fuel injection and ignition wiring especially near the high heat areas and of course seal it all with RTV as you said, to deter fumes and flame penetration. He did not make it mandatory, but asked me to consider it because the harness was automotive wire and not mil spec aviation wire... I'm not sure and have asked the engine builder, Ron Carr, of RAM Performance; he did use all Aeroquip hose and fittings on the plumbing side of things... I looked at other aircraft builder techniques and instead of running the wires through the fire sleeve, I noticed many RV builders slit the fire sleeve and only use it near the firewall and in high temp areas and not over the whole engine. Then they zip tie it... That looks nasty. To seal the slit in the fire sleeve, I recommend F4 tape and RTV F4 tape is a self adhering (non adhesive) silicone tape developed by the military and when pulled is heat resistant and self adhering. Why am I not surprised to learn you endorse "F4" tape? I've used it when you forget that piece of heat shrink, and it is awesome, but somewhat expensive. See one of the vendors: http://www.rescuetape.com> or just Google it. My DAR feels like I do that if the fire is bad enough to burn up the military spec wiring, you have more problems than worrying about the insulation of the wires. That's nice to know...that's exactly what I was thinkin, but was unsure about how close to the razor's edge that kind of thinking was putting me. If you just do, lets say, the 4-6 inches from the firewall penetration with fire sleeve and F4 tape, at least that will ensure the fire and fumes won't get through the firewall. If you have automotive wire, change it or protect it unless it is of the new high temp stuff.... Bud...when you say fire sleeve 4-6 inches from the firewall penetration, do you intend that the fire sleeve lines the hole of the FW penetration?...or do you intend that it ends hard against the firewall? As most of you know I build a large 6x12 D shaped access hole with a flange and shear web reinforcing behind the firewall and fashion a removable panel for access to more quick disconnect plugs at the rear of the instrument panel. Attached to the removable panel, I secure one or two plugs for quick disconnects. It takes me only a few minutes to pull an engine or instrument panel as I try to make everything serviceable. It takes longer to build, but if the engine or instrument panel is easy to remove, you'll benefit from it in the long run. I prefer the metal mil spec plugs as they are highly resistant to everything, but the AMP brand plastic circular plugs are commonly used in my aircraft for firewall penetrations also. They are not fire proof, but with an RTV seal in the wire securing clamp on the rear of the plug to seal it, I believe they hold up well. Like you Fred, I don't like to cut factory bundles, but I will build a transition plug to go through the firewall only because I can build a good and trustworthy plug. For instance, if the EMS plug from the engine to computer has a D Sub, I will look at it and determine if it is worth it for me to build a transition plug from the engine through the firewall rather than drill a big hole. I would like to pull the engine easily, and this means pulling the wire harness with it. Another plug is used for the firewall mounted devices. The lines to my D Subs (which will all be aft of the firewall) are plenty long enough to plug into the ECU and control module on the panel face, so I'm good there. To pull the engine, all I have to do is remove the instrument sub-panel, unplug them, and disconnect a couple of "eyes" bolted to power studs...that seems simple enough...I have so much stuff bolted to both sides of the firewall, a big D shaped access panel thru the firewall isn't in the cards. A D Sub is not fireproof nor is it strong, and so I don't use them as firewall penetrations, especially since you have to cut out the firewall and mount the D Sub to a metal panel anyway because the plug is too short to be attached to the glass. If you decide to build a D Sub firewall transition plug, the purist would glass up an insulated cover or use a small metal cup with a flange for a fireproof cover. That is overkill to me, so go with a hole and proper fire wall penetration cover and put a transition plug behind the firewall for easy panel removal.. I leave the thermocouple wires as supplied by the probe manufacturer (normally a spade), but then inside the airframe, I'll run the rest of the way to the EIS with 20 gauge mil spec wire for CHT and EGT and have had no problem. But one should continue to the EIS with the same wire (thermocouple if the type is known) to the box. Not all manufacturers supply the extra wire and I get away with using regular mil spec aircraft wire without problems from the spades supplied by the factory going to the Engine Management box. Works for me so far. In my case, my EGT thermocouples came w/ 4 feet of wire ending in 1/4" long pins, so my intention is to clip the pins and wire them directly into the EMS box. The EMS has plenty of unused channels (I'll have no CHTs to measure) so I'm planning on making up some thermocouples to measure inlet/outlet coolant at both rads, along w/ inlet/out air temps at both rads...looks like I'll have a bunch more wires thru the firewall... My DAR also does not like nyloc nuts anywhere on the engine. He prefers to use loctite on studs, squeeze nuts or a cotter pins and castle nuts on the engine. Nor do I...the ones you see in the photo are locally purchsed SS nylocs (the ONLY ones on my airplane) to mate w/ the shock-mount studs I got from mcmaster to mount the overall instrument module to the firewall...I'll be replacing them w/ stiff nuts...I'm using castle nuts & cotter pins on the engine mounting frame. Finally, the penetration hole is best sealed with a stainless firewall penetration cover. The type that has a half a hole in each half, but the two haves have a tab that actually overlaps and are secured with screws and nutplates. A grommet cut to slip on the wires along with RTV seals the hole well. Your setup looks like you have a slot which does the same thing but in the fire wall material, so protect the wires and rubber hose with a bit of fire sleeve, and seal it with RTV and go for it. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: firewall penetrations On Jan 27, 2011, at 7:20 AM, JonSmith wrote: > is it considered acceptable for the electric tacho wires to pass > through the firewall via the multipin plug/ socket connector that I > have all the other low current things going through (oil press/ > temp, starter solenoid control wire etc etc) or are the tacho wires > subject to interference and should thus be routed separately? All, Every so often I read a post which gets my attention and prompts me to reconsider aspects of my build...this is one of them. As I've posted previously, my engine is a MPEFIed derivative ot the Sube EA81which arrived w/ a fully complete and dyno-tested wiring harness in a nice, neat, and tidy bundle with several rectangular 15 and 27 pin Dsub connectors intended to be plugged into the ECU (shock mounted aft of the firewall) and a small control unit to be mounted on the instrument panel. In the process of mounting various sensors on the engine (EGT thermocouples, oil temp. & pressure, coolant temp. & pressure, etc.), I have a second bundle of wires...both bundles, of course, must penetrate the firewall in some manner. With a fair amount of ignorance and naivety, I have been loath to mess with the ECU bundle; consequently, I've cut a slot in the firewall big enough to slide the 27 pin Dsub connector thru and fabbed a cover plate from firewall material which is secured w/ nutplates w/ a hole sufficient for the bundle. A short length of split rubber hose surrounding the bundle is intended to protect the wires from wear against the raw edge of the firewall and cover plate. With regard to the sensor bundle, having been advised to avoid connectors in the thermocouple wires leading to my EMS unit which degrade their accuracy to some degree, I have similarly drilled the firewall and installed a rubber grommet as shown. A couple of photos are attached. Prior to flight test, it's my intention daub on a bit of RTV sealant to stop any air leakage; all of the above appears to be consistent w/ techniques used for firewall penetrations on my 1946 Stinson. Informed comment would be much appreciated. Please be gentle, Fred href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pre purchase inspection Livermore, CA
From: "jlk" <dr1flyer(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 28, 2011
Hi, Does anyone know of someone who can do a pre-purchase inspection of a tri-gear Europa xs. It is based in Livermore, CA now. Also if anyone knows the plane please respond, it is N24070. -------- Jordan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328836#328836 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David DeFord" <deford.dave(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pre purchase inspection Livermore, CA
Date: Jan 28, 2011
Jordan, This airplane was originally built in Canada and was bought several years ago by Jack Acord, who has kept it at Livermore. It has been hangared at Attitude Aviation. Rich Perkins is the owner of Attitude and is an excellent test pilot, if you want someone to evaluate its flying characteristics. I'm sure that he would want to inspect it carefully himself prior to flying it. Another possibility is Aircrafters at Watsonville airport, which is less than 30 minutes from Livermore (by air, of course). They do builder assistance on experimental aircraft as well as pre-purchase inspections, maintenance, etc., with A&P mechanics on staff. Check their website. Kim Prout has inspected many Europas, but he lives farther away in the Los Angeles area. Terry Seaver and I built an XS monowheel and have been flying it out of Livermore for almost 10 years and 650 flight hours. You would be welcome to look at our airplane (N135TD) for comparison, and we could go over N24070 with you, but you would have to be the final judge of what we discovered. Though I have never examined it carefully myself, the airplane appears to have been well built. Dave DeFord N135TD > > Hi, > > Does anyone know of someone who can do a pre-purchase inspection of a > tri-gear Europa xs. It is based in Livermore, CA now. Also if anyone > knows the plane please respond, it is N24070. > > -------- > Jordan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: firewall penetrations
Date: Jan 28, 2011
Fred, Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Pontificating now: I hate learning the hard way, and it takes so long to research everything, what can we do? I have always believed it is good to trust but verify. Many times what is one guys standard is another guys unacceptable. Problem is, in kit aircraft, in most of the world, there are no standards we can go to. I fall back on my background, such as mil spec wire, better than standard fuel hose, but I do not change the fuel or electrical fittings from the kitplane/engine manufacturer unless it has been proven by a number of kit builders as deficient. I look at copying ideas from aircraft builders with long reputations for excellence. If a guy doesn't fly what he builds, I stay away from him and his plane. You wouldn't take flying lessons from someone who had only read about flying. However, you can't discount their opinions, as they may have done more research than you, so recheck their research before using. I recommend researching the techniques and practices of known technicians such as, Bob Knuckles' Aeroelectric Connection, for wiring (but I hate spade connectors), FAA AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods and Practices, and of course the EAA books on building / how to's and or the writings of Ron Alexander with the Sport Air Workshops, are also great sources. But none of these gives you all the answers. Bottom line is we build kit aircraft like the FAA regulations say "for our own enjoyment and education". Pete Rafferty taught me how to crimp, but I learned by practice and research that all connectors are not equal, nor are crimping tools. Crimping verses soldering depends on your skill, and putting a 26 gauge wire in a connector designed for an 18 doesn't work well. Over crimping is worse than under-crimping, too much heat wicks the solder under the insulation and the wire may crack under the insulation and you will go nuts trying to find it. Automotive engine wiring is probably just fine. Let's face it, what most have is good to about 100C and mil spec is good to 200C, neither of them flame up when exposed to flame. So if the heat gets that bad under the cowl (in the summer time after engine shut down it is not uncommon to get over 100C), you know the wire won't break down because it doesn't in a car. Just wrap the really critical non sensor wire that keeps the engine running and run your bundles far enough from the engine block and headers to ensure the wires are not compromised. Summit Racing and other hot rod suppliers have super heat shield for wire. If it works in a race car, it will work in an airplane. Anyway, this will make a topic for another President's corner in the EAA chapter newsletter. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> To: Bud Yerly Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:24 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: firewall penetrations On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: Fred, I think he meant GPT wire which is common. Bud...after reading your email & checkin out Allied & comparing w/ mil-spec 22759... I think I'm hearin myself muttering a 4 letter word beginning w/ "F" & it ain't Fred. Thanks so much, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings(at)onetel.net>
Subject: Re: Who has fuel pipe experiences I can use on Europa-
Date: Jan 28, 2011
I have fitted 5/16 aluminium pipe for all my pipe runs except the tank drains which are in 1/4 and use 2 of the same type of fittings as supplied with the tri-gear brake kit . I have used AN fittings through out because they are easy to find and if you have to replace in service again easy to source. As my inspector pointed out, the Rotax engine does not burn a lot of fuel and has 2 carbs so there is not much fuel flow and very small jets in the carbs so greater chance of a fuel blockage. I have fitted the 2 in line filters Europa supplied as well as a gasolator with drain . I would have happily lent you my flaring tool [68.00 from LAS] but it was stolen in November along with all my tool and any copper they could find ! Good luck Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "K BURNS" <kjburns(at)btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 12:45 AM Subject: Europa-List: Who has fuel pipe experiences I can use on Europa- > > 1/ Europa system with "rubber" hose, I am put off by permeability & 5 yr > life, > couple of inches of ptfe to link sight gauge considered if I need to fit > any > flex connections.( replace sight gauge tube with single capacitance system > in > uk, I am considering flow measurement also)?. > > 2/ Versatube -6 3/8" aluminium fuel systems seem good but special tools > for > flaring, have heard of Swagelock fittings used instead of AN fittings, > would they be approved or fail UK rules. > > or -3/ Nylaflow Nylon -6 3/8" tubing used with brass (flareless)Polyflow > elbows > and fittings (with tube ferule inserts) (Listed as fuel pipes pge 103 & > 105 > aircraft spruce USA 2011 catalogue.(I am aware of history with PTFE fuel > pipe > static discharge perforations prior to aeroquipe 666 carbon conductive > tube, but > seems to be due to tracking to stainless steel sheaves, are you aware of > any UK > restriction on use of Nylon )? > > For price and durability combination of the above is currently preferred, > using > Aeroquipe 666 firewall forward with fire sleeve insulation (as per Europa > heat > insulation mod). > > Fuel pump Facet 40106 4-6 psi 30 gph, I do not want to install in back of > a/c ,I > believe x xxxx has his fuel pumps for 914 forward LAA mod approved, ( less > fuel line and fittings) any thoughts/objections. > > The existing Europa fuel tap would be rotated 180 degrees so outlet faces > forward & the pump... probably move selector valve vertical and the LH /RH > tank > inlets would come in on the horizontal (Tri Gear so electric flap > actuation, & > tunnel is available for pumps and pipes) > > Fuel filter..I would prefer to fit a single combined gascolator > incorporating a > large capacity filter firewall forward ( rather than two small filters > liable to > blockage under seat pans with more joints) I have the Europa mod water > drain kit > ..pair of drains and would do shortest practical run down and out. > > Practical experience and facts more than welcome, would prefer to install > for 10 > to 15 yr durability, also any available club 37 degree flaring tools? or > anyone > prepared to purchase as syndicate, or dies I could copy to use with my > brake > line flaring kit... > > Regards > > Kevin > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Firewall penetration
Date: Jan 29, 2011
Fred, You got the 'annointed word' from both experts so won't add much, except to say i followed Bob Nuckolls' suggestion on the topic and bought a 16 inch by 1-1/2 inch stainless steel towel rack, (I forget where, but a bathroom equipment supplier), which I then sawed off both ends to make two 90deg bends with attached flat mount plates. Through one of them I threaded fireproof tubing (with inside foreproof 'wool'), and then threaded whatever through to the cockpit side. When the first one was full ( I didn't need the second), I finished the connections and then stuffed the forward end with the usual red fireproof goop - see elsewhere for details. This was well-treated as a topic on Bob's Aeroelectric connection site. Sorry I'm nowhere near the sources for description, but hope you know the way. good luck Ferg wiring wiring wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Tyre Tube Types
Date: Jan 30, 2011
We have been suffering with a few flat tyres recenly - guess its time to change the tubes on HI I know that the size for the Tri are 5.00x5 but I don't know if the valve is straight or rightangled - can anyone assist? Tyres came from Watts - is this the best place to get tubes from - any recommendations welcome Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Tyre Tube Types
Date: Jan 31, 2011
The Tubes you require are right angled. I have stuck with Watts but had issues with the nose wheel tube since it was slightly too large causing a fold when inflated in the tyre. Best to be slightly undersize because tubes will expand but creases cause punctures. Regards |||||||||||Bob \Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Sent: 30 January 2011 21:41 Subject: Europa-List: Tyre Tube Types We have been suffering with a few flat tyres recenly - guess its time to change the tubes on HI I know that the size for the Tri are 5.00x5 but I don't know if the valve is straight or rightangled - can anyone assist? Tyres came from Watts - is this the best place to get tubes from - any recommendations welcome Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JEFF ROBERTS <Jeff(at)rmmm.net>
Subject: 2011 Rough River
Date: Jan 31, 2011
Hi All, I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. Any thoughts? Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagache Herve" <hervechaussures(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: wanted europa trigear
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Hi all, I am looking to buy a Europa trigear, Does anyone out there wishes to sell? If so please contact me by mail. or phone. hervechaussures(at)tiscali.co.uk Tel: 01664481884 01664813827 Cheers Herve. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2011
From: jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Jeff- Works for us.=C2- (Promise we will be flying this year.) Jim and Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <Jeff(at)rmmm.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 12:04:01 AM Subject: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River Hi All, I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the =C2 - weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all =C2 - know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked =C2- rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be =C2 - glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. =C2- Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. Any thoughts? Jeff R. =C2-N128LJ Gold Rush =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Jeff, Either way works for us. We plan to fly in this year, weather permitting. Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jan 31, 2011, at 23:04, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Hi All, > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. > > Any thoughts? > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wanted europa trigear
From: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Herve I have a Europa and share in an airfield for sale. Details at www.kevinmarie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ Kevin Challis On 1 Feb 2011, at 09:34, "Lagache Herve" wro te: > Hi all, > > I am looking to buy a Europa trigear, > > Does anyone out there wishes to sell? > > If so please contact me by mail. or phone. > > hervechaussures(at)tiscali.co.uk > > Tel: 01664481884 > > 01664813827 > > Cheers > > Herve. > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Subject: Re: wanted europa trigear
From: Dale Hetrick <gdh.hetrick(at)gmail.com>
Herve, I have mine for sale, if you don't mind shipping it from the US. Dale On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Lagache Herve wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking to buy a Europa trigear, > > Does anyone out there wishes to sell? > > If so please contact me by mail. or phone. > > hervechaussures(at)tiscali.co.uk > > Tel: 01664481884 > > 01664813827 > > Cheers > > Herve. > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2011
From: Jeff B <topglock(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Fine by us... Jeff - Baby Blue On 1/31/2011 11:04 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Hi All, > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the > weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all > know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked > rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be > glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. > Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. > > Any thoughts? > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2011
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Who has fuel pipe experiences I can use on Europa-
Bill,=0A=0AMany thanks for your kind-offer, I have just picked up a hydra ulic beuty from =0AIvor in Kent (We are-living between Gatwick and Redhil l) ,If you have any =0Apictures of how you are doing your fuel system I wou ld welcome more ideas, I am =0Ausing Veratube 3/8" aluminium for the bulk o f the runs, will use Europa tap, =0Awith 1 facet filter screwed in to each inlet , and pump forward of the =0Atap-,which will face forward-, and g ascolator on front firewall ( the cheap one =0Afrom LAS is actualy very nic e in the flesh) .=0A=0AI am considering flexable connections from tank ...i f I use aeroquipe 666 I will =0Athen need to re-work the Europa fittings us ing screw in 1/4 x 3/8" npt coupler =0Awhere the water drain pipe is reduxe d in and transfer the pipe extention (water =0Adrain kit) on to the alumini um machined outlet (as this is a push on outlet I am =0Aconsidering either very short rubber hose over nylon or /brass elbow looking =0Abown onto drai n valve fittings.=0A=0AI intend to add a "bow"--to both feed and return pipes to allow for flex/ =0Amovement in case of a/c breakage!=0A=0AFirewal l forward will probably be aeroquipe 666 (it has carbon content to avoid =0Astatic discharge to outer ss sheath that creates pin hole leakes) .=0A =0AMy engine installation planned is for 80 hp 912 not the 914 (But still h aving =0Athoughts about selling my engine and going 914 as the firewall for ward kit is =0Aactualy cheaper).=0A=0APS my current a/c is not quite as exo tic as yours but similar concept (should be =0Afinished re-build and transi tion to G soon see pic, HB-21)=0A=0ARegards=0A=0AKevin Burns=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Bill & Sue" <Billandsue(at)billbell.c o.uk>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 31 January, 2011 14:2 6:18=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Who has fuel pipe experiences I can use on ue(at)billbell.co.uk>=0A=0AKevin,=0AI have a flaring tool and I'm part way thr ough installing my fuel system at the =0Amoment (914 trigear too). It seems easy enough to use, and you are welcome to =0Aborrow it if you live locall y or can wait long enough for me to finish this bit!=0AI'm between Milton K eynes and Aylesbury 01296 689165.=0A=0A=0ARegards=0A=0ABill=0A=0Ado not arc hive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L ======= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Jeff, Looks good to me. Let's get Steve to get it in the flier and I'll get it on Europas site. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff B<mailto:topglock(at)cox.net> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River > Fine by us... Jeff - Baby Blue On 1/31/2011 11:04 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > > Hi All, > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the > weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all > know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked > rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be > glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. > Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. > > Any thoughts? > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JEFF ROBERTS <Jeff(at)rmmm.net>
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Date: Feb 01, 2011
Bud & All, I will go for the booking so you can get in in front of all the flyers. This year I think we can increase the birds in attendance big time. Maybe even get some of the far away lads to come across the pond for some American beer. You all over there can take the big iron into Louisville KY and we won't hold it against you. ;o) Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush On Feb 1, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Jeff, > Looks good to me. Let's get Steve to get it in the flier and I'll get it on Europas site. > Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff B > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River > > > Fine by us... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > On 1/31/2011 11:04 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the > > weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all > > know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked > > rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be > > glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. > > Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > &Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= =============== > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Date: Feb 02, 2011
Jeff, Good to see your forward planning. I am sure there are many from this side of the Atlantic who would love to visit. The only point I would make at this stage is that the 9/10/11th September is also the Texel Dutch Light Aircraft flyin in North Holland. Don't let that change your plans but this forward thinking is good to allow people to make their choices in good time. The committee of the club is working on the flying programme and will advise every one of dates as soon as possible. See you at Sun'n'Fun. Steve Pitt G-SMDH ----- Original Message ----- From: JEFF ROBERTS To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River Bud & All, I will go for the booking so you can get in in front of all the flyers. This year I think we can increase the birds in attendance big time. Maybe even get some of the far away lads to come across the pond for some American beer. You all over there can take the big iron into Louisville KY and we won't hold it against you. ;o) Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush On Feb 1, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: Jeff, Looks good to me. Let's get Steve to get it in the flier and I'll get it on Europas site. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff B To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River Fine by us... Jeff - Baby Blue On 1/31/2011 11:04 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Hi All, > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the > weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all > know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked > rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be > glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. > Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. > > Any thoughts? > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > > > > > > &Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electric Flap
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller(at)lolacars.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2011
Hi, I've been wondering about the electric flap mod for a taildragger. Ignore the 'taildragger' bit in this case as it's actually the standard system fitted to the tri-gear. I like the simplicity (and have all the parts) to modify the mechanical mono flap system and then just have 2 indents on the flap arm guide (half flap and full flap). This to me is a cheap, lightweight and fail safe system. The electric flap mod is interesting though. My question is: Do you operate the rocker switch for flaps up or down and then look at the markings on the flap and then stop operating the flap switch when the flap is 'about in the right position'. Or, is the system 'Cessna style' where you hit the switch and wait while the flap moves to half flap and then hit the switch again if you want full flap? If the system is of the former description above then I kind of think that the electric flap is just another distraction in the circuit if you are operating the swicth and looking out to see when it's reached the correct angle versus just moving the mono handle to the correct indent. Have I understood the electric flap system correctly or is it more slick than I think? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329282#329282 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Electric Flap
Date: Feb 02, 2011
Hi Phil, Nothing clever about the electrical system. It is just a rocker switch and visual check for position. Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 Sent: 02 February 2011 10:57 Subject: Europa-List: Electric Flap Hi, I've been wondering about the electric flap mod for a taildragger. Ignore the 'taildragger' bit in this case as it's actually the standard system fitted to the tri-gear. I like the simplicity (and have all the parts) to modify the mechanical mono flap system and then just have 2 indents on the flap arm guide (half flap and full flap). This to me is a cheap, lightweight and fail safe system. The electric flap mod is interesting though. My question is: Do you operate the rocker switch for flaps up or down and then look at the markings on the flap and then stop operating the flap switch when the flap is 'about in the right position'. Or, is the system 'Cessna style' where you hit the switch and wait while the flap moves to half flap and then hit the switch again if you want full flap? If the system is of the former description above then I kind of think that the electric flap is just another distraction in the circuit if you are operating the swicth and looking out to see when it's reached the correct angle versus just moving the mono handle to the correct indent. Have I understood the electric flap system correctly or is it more slick than I think? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329282#329282 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JEFF ROBERTS <Jeff(at)rmmm.net>
Subject: Re: 2011 Rough River
Date: Feb 02, 2011
Roger that Steve. I'll keep that in mind. You may ask around that if our RR fly-in was on a different date... would that encourage some to come over and if so how many. We would love to get some of you chaps over here. Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:27 AM, Steven Pitt wrote: > Jeff, > Good to see your forward planning. I am sure there are many from this side of the Atlantic who would love to visit. The only point I would make at this stage is that the 9/10/11th September is also the Texel Dutch Light Aircraft flyin in North Holland. > Don't let that change your plans but this forward thinking is good to allow people to make their choices in good time. > The committee of the club is working on the flying programme and will advise every one of dates as soon as possible. > See you at Sun'n'Fun. > Steve Pitt > G-SMDH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JEFF ROBERTS > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:59 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River > > Bud & All, > I will go for the booking so you can get in in front of all the flyers. This year I think we can increase the birds in attendance big time. Maybe even get some of the far away lads to come across the pond for some American beer. > > You all over there can take the big iron into Louisville KY and we won't hold it against you. ;o) > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > >> Jeff, >> Looks good to me. Let's get Steve to get it in the flier and I'll get it on Europas site. >> Bud >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jeff B >> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:09 PM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2011 Rough River >> >> >> Fine by us... >> >> Jeff - Baby Blue >> >> On 1/31/2011 11:04 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> > >> > Hi All, >> > I had a moment so I thought this year it might be good try and get the >> > weekend booked before we're out of options like last. Although we all >> > know booking it last year two weeks after Labor Day weekend worked >> > rather well for the weather gods. Anyway if all are willing I would be >> > glad to try and get this booked the weekend of September 9th & 10th. >> > Thats the 1st weekend after Labor Day weekend. >> > >> > Any thoughts? >> > >> > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> &Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= =============== >> >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> >> > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Electric Flap
Date: Feb 02, 2011
I also found the standard electric flap system lacking so I designed and built this simple modification. The attachment shows the mechanical and electrical components and circuitry that allow a momentary contact switch to get the flaps moving and stop at the next position going either direction. A "traffic light" on the panel shows red for "full" orange at "half" and green for "in motion." Since I am not yet flying I can't confirm that the notches in the rod are located precisely for half flaps but from static tests they are about right. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics soon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:57 AM Subject: Europa-List: Electric Flap Hi, I've been wondering about the electric flap mod for a taildragger. Ignore the 'taildragger' bit in this case as it's actually the standard system fitted to the tri-gear. I like the simplicity (and have all the parts) to modify the mechanical mono flap system and then just have 2 indents on the flap arm guide (half flap and full flap). This to me is a cheap, lightweight and fail safe system. The electric flap mod is interesting though. My question is: Do you operate the rocker switch for flaps up or down and then look at the markings on the flap and then stop operating the flap switch when the flap is 'about in the right position'. Or, is the system 'Cessna style' where you hit the switch and wait while the flap moves to half flap and then hit the switch again if you want full flap? If the system is of the former description above then I kind of think that the electric flap is just another distraction in the circuit if you are operating the swicth and looking out to see when it's reached the correct angle versus just moving the mono handle to the correct indent. Have I understood the electric flap system correctly or is it more slick than I think? Thanks,

December 17, 2010 - February 02, 2011

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