Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ki
October 18, 2012 - November 27, 2012
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ki
October 18, 2012 - November 27, 2012
>
> Hi William,
>
> I would recommend against using metallic paints. I had the same thought as
> you, until I checked out the relative temperature of car surfaces (put my
> hand on the hood) at a parking lot on a sunny day:
>
> White is definitely the only "cold" colour. Silver metallic is up there
> among the other "warm" colours like green, blue and red. May sound
> strange,
> but it is caused by irregular particles in the paint reflecting radiation
> heat not only outwards (remember: angle out equals angle in).
>
> Regards,
> Svein
> LN-SKJ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: silver paint
Date: Oct 18, 2012
Ivor,
That is not strictly correct as Peter has only painted the bottom half
silver, the top half of the fuselage and the wings/tailplanes are white.
My aircraft is a bit similar in that several years ago I painted the
underside of the fuselage dark blue and this has not shown itself a problem
even on trips down in to Spain, Italy and Morocco.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 1960 hours
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PHILLIPS I
Sent: 18 October 2012 08:15
Subject: Re: Europa-List: silver paint
Hi william
What Svein has said is Europa's position on paint, But Peter Kember has
painted
his tri gear silver and it seems to have no problem.
But a few years back an American europa painted blue on the bottom in
Arizona,
suffered a sagging engine after being heat soaked for a day,
In August this year Bob Harrison and myself had ground temperatures of 40C
in the Czech republic so Europe can still get very warm,
regards
Ivor
On 18 October 2012 07:02, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
wrote:
Hi William,
I would recommend against using metallic paints. I had the same thought as
you, until I checked out the relative temperature of car surfaces (put my
hand on the hood) at a parking lot on a sunny day:
White is definitely the only "cold" colour. Silver metallic is up there
among the other "warm" colours like green, blue and red. May sound strange,
but it is caused by irregular particles in the paint reflecting radiation
heat not only outwards (remember: angle out equals angle in).
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: electronic engine monitoring and flight instruments
Date: Oct 18, 2012
William
We have about 50 panel pictures on the Club web site
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/for-builders/panel-instruments/
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger(at)millersville.edu>
Date: Oct 18, 2012
Subject: Europa Instruments
In reference to:
From: "William Bliss" <william(at)wbliss.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:33:32 PM
Subject: Europa-List: electronic engine monitoring and flight instruments
I am presently flying with the attached panel. It is full IFR, with a Garmi
n 430W, a Mode S Garmin 330 GTX, a Tru-Trak 2-axis autopilot (with a back-u
p attitude indicator), a Grand Rapids HX EFIS and EIS. I used a EXP buss fo
r circuit breakers (that is the EXP indicator above the brakes and throttle
). I also have back-up airspeed (a Winter since I plan to do soaring and h
ad a bit of a space problem), vertical speed and altimeter. I am using a Ai
rmaster constant speed prop. Yes, it is a bit heavy (panel weighs 42 pounds
- and it cost a bit more than 42 pounds - yuk-yuk - sorry, American humor
) but it is what I wanted. Europa is a great IFR platform - the 2-axis auto
pilot is really overkill - the plane actually flies better hands off then w
ith the autopilot (still wanders a bit but think I just need to do some fin
e tuning) - haven't tried it in turbulence yet but have done an hour and ha
lf in the soup. I also have a heated pitot tube which I have yet to test -
but not planning on going into known icing conditions - but we get that her
e (Northeast U.S.). We also have a great deal of traffic and with the new N
ext Gen system I wanted to be able to see more of it on the screen - amazin
g how much traffic we have and miss. I also use my IPad with Foreflight and
a Stratus for weather. The IPad is mounted over the tray on the right wit
h a RAM mount.
I have a large 3 hole fan with tubing to cool the 430W and the 330GTX (tube
s hook into the back of the units) and the other one is split between the E
XP and the back of the HX. I also have two small fans on the top of the pan
el set up with a thermostat and a timer. They run off the secondary battery
(set up as a soaring buss) and they run for up to 45 minutes after shut d
own, dependent on instrument temps. I have had the HX reboot twice for, I t
hink, overheating but that was a hot day in Florida (90's F) with sun on th
e panel.
The photo should allow you to zoom in to see details on lettering on switch
es and such.
The Grant Rapids EFIS and EIS both work very well and provides far more inf
o than is necessary. I am running a 912S and everything fits up neatly to t
he sensors. It did take about 40 hours to get everything to talk to each ot
her and to arrange the screens (will probably do more fiddling but of cours
e that is why we call them experimental). Grand Rapids does make a smaller
EFIS that I haven't heard anything bad about.
I wanted all this stuff because, first, they are neat toys, and second, I f
ly in a high traffic area with many days of fogs and low ceilings (my rule
is I won't take off until I have at least 1500 AGL) where I use IFR a lot
just to get out or back in (why are airports magnets for low ceilings?).
Any other questions please let me know.
Gary Leinberger
A-237
62 hours
Lancaster, Pa.
gleinberger(at)millersville.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 18, 2012
Hi Alan,
Can't believe LaaLaaLand won't let you put Inspection Panels in as per the
Manual ?
If you have no panels back there at all, installing some as directed in the
relevant Chapter won't be a ''Mod'', just bringing you airframe in complia
nce with what has been approved ?
The small spy hole lets you see in there, the larger access hole is in the
correct position for you to get your arm in, folded round the corner and ab
le to work on the torque tube / trim items.
I would be tempted to do it, get it signed off by an Inspector, raise a Wor
ksheet and make an entry in the aircraft's Log Book, at the same time as do
ing the pin work.
On next years Permit Renewal Form, in the ''any repairs / work carried out
since the last Permit'' question, list the Pin repair work and the addition
of inspection panels as per Chapter 23, P 3,4,5 ?
The torque tube CAN be got out by working down the ''tunnel''.
As you have noted, support the rear fuselage with a padded trestle. Fill th
e baggage area with foam / cushions to the height of the seatback / D panel
hole so you can ''surf'' in and out. If you have the Classic fuel filler,
take the hose off and plug the tank inlet.
Get cushions and carpet offcuts in the rear hull so you don't point load th
e skin with elbows etc, 3 or 4 layers of carpet / underlay should do. Unbol
t the pitch pushrod containment tower and remove, should be 8 bolts / nuts
holding it to the hull / roof, and 2 on the wooden cross piece [ 3/8'' & 1/
4'' spanners].Weight the tailplanes aft down and tie the stick forward to p
ark the mass balance weight up in the roof. Surf aft and unbolt the mass ba
lance arm, 2 bolts / nuts [3/8''&1/4''] and pushrod, 1 bolt / nut [1/2'' &3
/8'' ] from the horn. Bung the arm out and lay the pushrod in the hull. Pad
under / over the pushrod so any body weight on it doesn't hurt it.Also pro
tect the two glass lay up brackets in the hull for the tower, fill between
with stiff foam so they don't get broken.
Pad your self up from the hull with cushions so you adopt the ''Superman''
position, with your arm outstretched in front of you, you will have to hold
yourself up with the palm of your hand while you are straightening the spl
it pin and pulling it out, pointed nose pliers and gently used cutters are
needed to pull / curl the split pins out. Start with the outer pins first.
Pull the drive pin out with Mole Grips.
You can now rotate the entire torque tube to allow better access to the rem
aining 2 split pins.
Mark everything as to its position, I put a red blob inside the bottom of t
he port end on the main tube [ paint or nail varnish ] this won't get knock
ed off at the Machine Shop. Mark all else with a indellable marker pen, ie
Port / Stb TP12, TP 10 collars, with both the writing as to where, and a li
ne though the lot so it can go together on the bench back in the same way.
The red nail varnish on the Port TP12 in a place that won't get knocked off
is a good plan.
Cool lighting in there is needed, so not a 100 watt lead lamp ! and a fan b
lowing in helps.
Could take 3 to 4 hours of sweating and swearing to get it out, bit longer
to put it back.
Tools needed. Imperial spanners [ wrenches for those in the US] & Imperial
sockets [ 1/4'' , 3/8'' , 1/2''] needle nose pliers, Mole [Vise] grips, si
de cutters, copper / hide hammer, a selection of punches, magnetic bowl [ t
o put the bolts / nuts in when you are in there, to stop them escaping ] an
d a swear box. I have the cranked arm / long pushrod ratchet spanners which
help to reach the bolt heads. To get a spanner on the nuts [1/4'' & 3/8'']
I have B&Q plastic13mm double pipe clips [ as used to mount central heatin
g pipes] to bolt the other end of the spanners to, which spring on to the t
wo 1/2'' tube arms [ you can't get both arms up there at the same time ].
Entrust the assembly to a good Machine Shop to drill / ream to suit the O/S
pins.
Fitting is the reverse of dismantling, only more difficult ! Hard bit is ge
tting the new pins aimed to go in and come out the other side ! I am workin
g on a clamp / aiming / thumbscrew / press gizzmo at the moment, watch this
space.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:03
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
Thanks Neville.
honed the LAA today ref. New Inspection Hole.
asically No,
s i,m in the UK its new dowels and clamps approved by LAA.
o i have to find a small person to climb down inside the tunnel after havin
g
emoved the mass balance weight.
assume this is the easiest way to get at the pins, as you can see them.
bviously with the tail propped,and all the panels off for light and air.
f i go about it this way.
ow long to get it out., and do you see any other problem,
egards
lan
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385573#385573
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 18, 2012
Hello Neville.
Many thanks for the detailed instructions, this really sound like one hell of a
of job to do.
Have you ever seen a Whale Surf, i think i will send boy Robin down the tunnel
while i stay in the bat-mobile.
I will print your instruction off, and check i have all the tools as listed.
As for going down the tunnel, I am 14 stone so plan finding a small person to go
down the tunnel for me, this will cost me quite a few Beers!!
I have not looked down the tunnel yet, but was planning maybe two lengths of wood
mounted on layers of carpet laid along each side of the tunnel with plywood
screwed to them, so as to make a platform to lay on above any controls lines,
and to spread the load, then get boy Robin to Surf down there.
Will remove back panel and have a look to see if this is possible.
But if you think this is not a good idea, please post.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385646#385646
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Mod 73
Date: Oct 19, 2012
Hi Bud
I have been following with interest this problem because whilst I was
building my Europa I became very unhappy with the design which required
a degree of precision machining and fitting that was not available to
the average builder - me.
I overcame the problem with mod 11969 which replaced the TP14 pins with
close tolerance bolts which when tightened up on to a shaped nut plate
mounted inside the torque tube clamped everything together so removing
any chance of fretting taking place. There is little or no tube
distortion and as I had to rig test my design in order to gain LAA
approval, found that with all the bolts torque up to 200 lbs inches the
assembly could transmit 90 lbs ft before slipping. No glue, no
hammering.
I would appreciate your opinion on this mod.
Regards
Richard Collings
----- Original Message -----
From: Bud Yerly
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
Pete and Bob
Had the same kind of idea. Putting a slotted tube bored for the pins
and use flush riveted nutplates in the tube with bolts to clamp the
tubes together. Install by sliding in the nutplated tube and aligning
the holes. However, that still will distort the tubes when the bolts
are turned down making removal almost impossible as in tapered pins. My
other idea was an expanding bolt. A 1/4 inch bolt with a steel insert
in the center and two bronze bushings at the ends so that as the bolt is
tightened, the bronze expands like a rivet and fills the small gap,
making it tight. My A&P said, why not just rivet it in place. Just
change the stab to allow it to rotate a full 90 degrees to allow
riveting.
However, what we have works, is maintainable and can be assembled by
amateurs using drift pins and bolts (which allow a loose fit) during
assembly and allows for a solid install provided the holes and pins are
correctly sized for zero clearance.
Good ideas though,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
Thinking out loud here, what about very accurately machining
substantive internal bolt bushings (made of a material to not cause
galvanic corrosion), tap them all the way down the tube to their proper
location, then bolt tight the two tubes without fear of distortion?
Just throwing it out there,
Cheers,
Pete
On Oct 14, 2012, at 4:47 PM, "Bob Harrison"
wrote:
You could drill and thread the heads of the parallel pins and use
a bolt to Jack the out if needed.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 14 October 2012 18:14
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
No, they would distort the torque tube which must be perfectly
circular
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com"
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2012, 14:04
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to
avoid the hammering out of the holes over time.
That said, could "taper pins" be used?
cheers,
Pete
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Mod 73
Date: Oct 19, 2012
All
Details of Richard Collings mod (11969) is available on the Club web site
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/11969-TTpins.pdf
For UK owners I would expect the LAA to treat it as a "repeat Mod" if you
want to use it
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LG08 bushes
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Oct 20, 2012
Hello all,
Our Mono has now done 477 hrs and 794 landings.
To my dismay, I have just discovered that the bushes on the LG08 forks are quite
badly worn.
Before ordering new bushes, I am wondering if anybody knows of a more durable material
from which these bushes could be manufactured.
Regards
Kingsley in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 19, 2012
Hi. Richard.
That looks a good fix to me, pulling up on both side of the tube, i can,t see that
moving anywhere.
Next project is to get rid of the pins on the TB12 drive plate,
Make a drive plate with all the external edges angled at 90 degrees ,ie a male
drive plate, and a mirrored female drive plate fitted to the stabilator, all
of this female drive plate slides up into the male drive plate, all the surfaces
making a tight contacting join.,and full transmission load spread over the
entire surface,
No little pins and no lugs, so no chance of miss alignment damaging or pin wear
or breaking .
All of this would last the life of the aircraft
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385675#385675
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 19, 2012
A job done properly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzDg_6uLZQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385677#385677
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: LG08 bushes
Date: Oct 20, 2012
Kingsley,
My experience is that 400 to 500 hours is about normal for the LG08 bushes
and I have replaced mine 3 times and have the materials ready for the next
couple of times.
It is not a nice job replacing the bushes, but as with most things on the
Europa they are mostly fiddly and play on the mind, but are actually doable
in a relatively short time.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 1960 hrs.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: 19 October 2012 23:25
Subject: Europa-List: LG08 bushes
Hello all,
Our Mono has now done 477 hrs and 794 landings.
To my dismay, I have just discovered that the bushes on the LG08 forks are
quite badly worn.
Before ordering new bushes, I am wondering if anybody knows of a more
durable material from which these bushes could be manufactured.
Regards
Kingsley in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mod 73 - slightly different
Date: Oct 20, 2012
Stephan
Thanks for the idea. I shall do something very similar I think except
mine will be easier because I still have the top off. Less swearing.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of SCASSEL
Sent: 17 October 2012 03:15
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73 - slightly different
Hi Will,
One washer on each bolt.
I guess there many different approaches and mine was probably not the
best but it made my day.
The washer was mounted on a wooden stick (about 1/2=9D x 1/2") A
slot was made that hold the washer on place.
Tight. You have to press the washer into the slot. It was quite easy to
put the washer on the bolt.
Same stick (but the opposite side) was used in order to create a long
handle to the spanner.
A mark was made on the stick so I know exactly how far in the tube I
was. The other hand on the bolt.
The first tree were quite easy. On the fourth and last nut the washer
went off and I had to rig the washer again.
( A small swearing was fired)
Best regards
Stephan
LN-STE Mono
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2012
Subject: Re: LG08 bushes
From: Carl Pattinson <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
The bushes are "oilite" which are impregnated with a lubricating oil (not sure
how they get the oil in) - if you need to heat the lg arms to sweat the old ones
out they will ooze oil from the inserts.
I doubt any other material would wear any less as the undercarriage takes a lot
of punishment.
Just make sure that you replace the top rubber block spacer plate facing exactly
the same way as you removed it - the block assembly can be removed without dismantling
but can be rotated through 180 degrees. If you do this the undercarriage
wont retract fully and you will be faced with having to disassemble everything.
You only make the mistake once - we did !
Ideally you can suspend the fuselage using an engine hoist - rope through the engine
mounting frame.
Its not a nice job but as David says can be done in a couple of hours.
Good luck,
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS.
Sent from my ASUS Pad
Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>Our Mono has now done 477 hrs and 794 landings.
>
>To my dismay, I have just discovered that the bushes on the LG08 forks are quite
badly worn.
>
>Before ordering new bushes, I am wondering if anybody knows of a more durable
material from which these bushes could be manufactured.
>
>Regards
>
>Kingsley in Oz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Mod 73 - slightly different
Date: Oct 20, 2012
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Download images
Stephan,
Richard did a great job on his mod. I have attached a drawing of our
solution which differed only in that the nutplates were riveted to a
tube horizontally and 1/4 inch bolts used. (see drawing) It was never
submitted as I had a local machine shop that could put out the work for
about $300 and make new holes and pins, or if the 3/8 pins weren't
installed yet, we could machine the holes to a zero tolerance fit. A
drop of Loctite or two and the whole thing stayed solid for so far, 3
years. So we dropped pursuing the idea. Richard's mod 11969 is a
perfectly sound solution that should work. I just felt that Redux on
the nutplate was a bit tedious when a rivet could be put into a steel
tube quickly. I used a 1 1/4 inch tube (Sloppy fit for ease of moving
into position into an existing stab, slotted it on the bandsaw, slid it
in and marked the holes with a centering punch (inserted into a 1/4 inch
tube to center the punch on the hole and gave it a try. A $10
experiment, that works, but it too is tedious. When Roger Bull came out
with the Loctite solution and got it all approved, I sure liked not
having to go through approvals when what he did works. You know us
Yanks, instant gratification.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephan Cassel<mailto:stephan(at)scassel.se>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73 - slightly different
Hi Europa pilots/builders
I did the mod 73 per instructions five years ago and at first it
looked good. After a short while the play was back.
My assembly was perhaps a bit tighter then normal so the Loctite did
not penetrate enough.
In order to get rid of the play I made =93special=94 washer, situated
inside the torque tube. Now it was possible to tight the tubes hard
together.
The result was a zero play system. Complete solid for 5 year (340
hours) . I know another builder that has solved the play in the same
fashion with complete success.
Here is draft drawing that shows the parts involved. In my case it was
only necessary to change the outer bolts:
http://aero2012.scassel.se/Images/tailplanemod.PNG
l.se/Images/tailplanemod.PNG>
It is necessary to create a spanner with looong shank. I used a wooden
stick and strapped the spanner to it. After 30-40 minutes and some
swearing (not much) it was tight, very tight I may add.
Additionally I made a thin black line, 4-5 cm long, on fuselage when
TP trailing edge was fully down, parallel with TP skin. This reference
line makes it very easy to catch very small play over time.
So far the TP is still on the reference line. I check this on every
pre flight.
Best regards
Stephan
LN-STE Mono in Norway.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 20, 2012
Hi Richard ,Peter
I had thought of solid cores , here you could see the nuts , as the nut would be
on the outside of the tube, you could check them or wire lock them, But the
1/4 moons as in your diagram allow any water to escape from within the tube.
Further more you could increase and have the say two 1/3rd moons, with two drilled
recesses in the back and say two 1/2diameter springs slipped in-between the
two part moons .
To fit just squeeze the two 1/3rd shaped moons together and pop into the end of
the tube , now its holds itself in place . Now you can attach a piece of wood
slide it down the tube twist it about and line the holes up then pop the bolts
in and tighten up.
As for the 2 little springs leave them there, or take another thin piece of wood
push down the tube and push them out, as they have done there job, and use them
again for the next set of 1/3rd shaped moons you are going to slid down the
tube to do the next pin hole.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385704#385704
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Stabalator Flutter
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Alan,
I noted no answer to your question on what is flutter.
Attached are some video sites for you to look at. In engineering,
vibration and aeroelastic concerns on fatique and flutter are very
serious studies.
Please review:
<http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/aircraft-flutter-analysis.html>http://www
.aircraftdesigns.com/aircraft-flutter-analysis.html<http://www.aircraftde
signs.com/aircraft-flutter-analysis.html>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIHam_isyI8&feature=related
I became interested in the subject when government cuts forced us to go
to a cheaper hydraulic line in the F4. We were seeing numerous problems
with hydraulic failures using the aluminum lines attached. Without
hydraulic pressure, the flight controls did not lock in position in
certain failures (breaking of the control pack) and controls would begin
to buzz at high speed. Luckily the aircraft wing was brutally strong,
we had redundant hydraulic controls and with only one hydraulic failure
we pilots normally slowed down, declared an emergency and returned to
base without incident. One crew lost all hydraulic control on one wing
and the back seater could see the aileron flopping about. They slowed
to 240 knots and the flutter stopped but hinge and trailing edge damage
was evident in only a few seconds of flutter.
Later I was involved in a local Twin Commanche incident where rivets
were popped all over the stab and I was asked to look at it. See the
video below. The type of flutter is evident on stabilators as well as
conventional horizontal control surfaces which are not balanced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFZNrTYp3k
?v=iTFZNrTYp3k>
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Carter<mailto:alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Stabalator Flutter
>
Hello ALL.
This question is nothing to do with how to fix the Toque Tube and stop
flutter.
Ok i know stabalators are more efficient than the elevator, and they
can,t Rime ice up like an elevator and i have flow many aircraft with
stabalators
and i don,t like them.
Question is what is Flutter only??
I keep hearing the word Stabalator Flutter, I have the obvious idea
as to what happens but would like to know more, maybe someone has
experienced it.
Do the Stabalators flutter independently, or both up and down
together,
How fast is this fluttering, How is the on-set noticed in the cockpit,
Can you feel it through the joy stick,( of course you can, but a tell
tell indication maybe in some flight attitude or configuration well
before an event). Is it controllable, What would be the position held by
the stabalators if you had no control. ete,ete,ete, agian not a test
just something we can all chew over.
If anyone has experienced flutter please tell us,
Alan
[/u]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385392#385392
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385392#385392>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stabalator Flutter
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Wow Bud, that,s pretty scary stuff, have a lot of hours on Twin Coms. glad i knew
nothing about flutter then, what happened to it in the video.
Well i got the first bit right, slow down, but have not that brutal tail-plane
you mention, only have a foam one!, and yes i do have a hang up on tail planes
maybe its because i can,t see it.
There have been some excellent ideas posted on MOD 73 . how to elimination play
and wear in the Toque tube, and this question is just an extension of that topic,
so hoping for some airman-ship replies also.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385727#385727
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint edge around the windows
From: "flying farmer" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Fellow Europas
Does anyone have any suggestions for finishing the Paint edge around the windows?
As the paint does not bond well to the Plexi Glass even after scuffing the
surface.
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385743#385743
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Bliss" <william(at)wbliss.co.uk>
Subject: Aerial testing and fuel smell
Date: Oct 21, 2012
On a flight to the Isle of Bute today I found that the radio was
intermittently failing to receive and transmit. Not a power problem. I have
heard that Europa aerials can be difficult (earth?). How is it best to test
and rectify?
Good news is that the fuel gauge sender unit leak has been stopped by
fitting a 4mm thick nitrile cork gasket ontop of a thin layer of fuel tank
sealant
William Bliss
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Bliss" <william(at)wbliss.co.uk>
Subject: upholstery
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Dear all again
The upholtsery in G-WUFF is coming adrift - and will be more so after I have
made a few alterations. Can anyone recommend a UK based upholsterer? North
would be better.
Thanks
William Bliss
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 914 surging/loss of power
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Oct 21, 2012
We are stuck in Lamar CO with 914 problems. Have spent most of the day talking
to Bud for ideas. Flew about 4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.
Takeoff was normal but when leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph, not
the expected 5.5. Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flow. Engine
felt rough or different than normal.
Landed and inspected under cowl - no problem noted. We had just gotten fuel so
thought maybe that caused it. Tried flight this morning when it was cooler,
had to make emergency landing because power dropped soon after takeoff. No vibration,
just wouldn't climb. Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged, cleared
it, ran ground tests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no problem.
Loaded plane & departed again, engine power dropped just after gear retract,
made another emergency landing. (Obvious answer is don't let Heather in the
plane [Wink] )
At this point we're thinking pull carbs for rebuild. Any other ideas?
Thanks, Jim & Heather N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385747#385747
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Jim & Heather,
I don't know if this has been suggested by anyone else, but check the carb bowl
pressurization lines from the air box to the carbs. If there's a leak somewhere
along there, it could prevent your carbs from being able to deliver sufficient
fuel under boost. In the attached PDF file these lines are RED, GREY/WHITE
STRIPE and YELLOW. Check VERY carefully! I had two hidden that took three
or four searches to locate. Look carefully at any connection from line to fitting.
If that all checks out OK, then you might also check the carb bowl pressure shuttle
(92 in the PDF) which transfers from lower pressure input to higher pressure
input when you go to high boost. This can be checked by making the purple
connection. Disconnect the YELLOW line from the shuttle and the RED line from
the airbox. Connect the YELLOW line to the airbox where the RED line was removed.
This information was provided by the folks up at Rotax Owner dot Com and
they said that it will not harm anything to run like this till you can get
home and get a replacement shuttle.
I hope this helps. Good luck!
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Oct 21, 2012, at 4:47 PM, "h&jeuropa" wrote:
We are stuck in Lamar CO with 914 problems. Have spent most of the day talking
to Bud for ideas. Flew about 4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.
Takeoff was normal but when leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph, not
the expected 5.5. Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flow. Engine
felt rough or different than normal.
Landed and inspected under cowl - no problem noted. We had just gotten fuel so
thought maybe that caused it. Tried flight this morning when it was cooler,
had to make emergency landing because power dropped soon after takeoff. No vibration,
just wouldn't climb. Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged, cleared
it, ran ground tests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no problem.
Loaded plane & departed again, engine power dropped just after gear retract,
made another emergency landing. (Obvious answer is don't let Heather in the
plane [Wink] )
At this point we're thinking pull carbs for rebuild. Any other ideas?
Thanks, Jim & Heather N241BW
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Oct 21, 2012
Jim & Heather,
Also, check the pressure line from the airbox to the fuel pressure regulator.
This keeps fuel pressure above airbox pressure ensuring sufficient fuel pressure
to overcome boost pressure. As with the other lines, check thoroughly where
the rubber hose meets a connector. These areas are prone to splitting.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Oct 21, 2012, at 4:47 PM, "h&jeuropa" wrote:
We are stuck in Lamar CO with 914 problems. Have spent most of the day talking
to Bud for ideas. Flew about 4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.
Takeoff was normal but when leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph, not
the expected 5.5. Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flow. Engine
felt rough or different than normal.
Landed and inspected under cowl - no problem noted. We had just gotten fuel so
thought maybe that caused it. Tried flight this morning when it was cooler,
had to make emergency landing because power dropped soon after takeoff. No vibration,
just wouldn't climb. Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged, cleared
it, ran ground tests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no problem.
Loaded plane & departed again, engine power dropped just after gear retract,
made another emergency landing. (Obvious answer is don't let Heather in the
plane [Wink] )
At this point we're thinking pull carbs for rebuild. Any other ideas?
Thanks, Jim & Heather N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385747#385747
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: upholstery
From: "Martin Olliver" <martflynut(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
Try Ricky Biles
Tel 07759050736
Excellent workmanship, Ricky specializes in aircraft.
He is based in Southampton.
Worth the hassle of getting your aircraft to him as you will not be disappointed
with the result.
Best wishes.
Martin Olliver.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385774#385774
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2012
From: Jeff B <topglock(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
Restricted fuel lines/filters?
On 10/21/2012 4:47 PM, h&jeuropa wrote:
>
> We are stuck in Lamar CO with 914 problems. Have spent most of the day talking
to Bud for ideas. Flew about 4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.
Takeoff was normal but when leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph, not
the expected 5.5. Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flow. Engine
felt rough or different than normal.
>
> Landed and inspected under cowl - no problem noted. We had just gotten fuel
so thought maybe that caused it. Tried flight this morning when it was cooler,
had to make emergency landing because power dropped soon after takeoff. No
vibration, just wouldn't climb. Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged, cleared
it, ran ground tests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no problem.
Loaded plane & departed again, engine power dropped just after gear retract,
made another emergency landing. (Obvious answer is don't let Heather in the
plane [Wink] )
>
> At this point we're thinking pull carbs for rebuild. Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks, Jim & Heather N241BW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385747#385747
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aerial testing and fuel smell
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
the radio, using the europa fin aerial is a dipole so it needs no earth, sounds
more like a connector/connection problem to me.
I think tightening the fuel sender gasket was a major factor in curing my fuel
smell too.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385794#385794
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: upholstery
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
you could try my wife, but even I got short-shrift! Took a good while of banking
brownie points before she did them, ha.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385795#385795
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
From: "ploucandco" <jacques(at)platisource.com>
Date: Oct 22, 2012
Jim,
I got about the same issue with my 914 some months ago. At full power, the engine
run fine or didn't give full power (oscillating RPMs) depending on the time
of the day and the ambient temperature (typically more than 30C).
After checking many different items (took some weeks), I found 2 mojor items. I
replaced the rubber flanges between the manifold and the carbs. One was not hermetic.
The other item was to clean up all fuel lines. The grid of my gascolator
had a hole and many particles found their way till the pumps. That cleared
up the surging/loss of power issue and further enjoyed my Europa for some long
trips :-)
Hope this helps.
Kind regards, Jacques.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385798#385798
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: Jim Brown <acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
Jeff, check the throttle cable, where it attaches to- the arm, on the exh
aust pipe, if its worn it may-be bending, instead of-moving- the turbo
arm...At 700 hours I had to replace the cable=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________
_________________=0AFrom: Jeff B <topglock(at)cox.net>=0ATo: europa-list@matro
nics.com =0ASent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:08 PM=0ASubject: Re: Europa-L
B =0A=0ARestricted fuel lines/filters?=0A=0AOn 10/21/201
mp;jeuropa" =0A>=0A> We are stuck in Lamar CO with 914 p
roblems.- Have spent most of the day talking to Bud for ideas. Flew about
4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.- Takeoff was normal but w
hen leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph, not the expected 5.5.-
Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flow.- Engine felt rough
or different than normal.=0A>=0A> Landed and inspected under cowl - no prob
lem noted.- We had just gotten fuel so thought maybe that caused it.- T
ried flight this morning when it was cooler, had to make emergency landing
because power dropped soon after takeoff.- No vibration, just wouldn't cl
imb.- Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged, cleared it, ran ground t
ests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no problem.- Loaded plane
& departed again, engine power dropped just after gear retract, made anothe
r emergency landing.- (Obvious answer is don't let Heather in the plane
- [Wink] )=0A>=0A> At this point we're thinking pull carbs for rebuild.
- Any other ideas?=0A>=0A> Thanks, Jim & Heather N241BW=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewt
opic.php?p=385747#385747=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Subject: Drop of the hat Calais this Saturday
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
*Drop of the hat Calais this Saturday 27*
* *
*Hi Guys *
**
* The weather is looking hopeful for this weekend, with free landing and
food its an event worth making an effort for, Hope to see a bunch of
Europa's there,*
**
*Ivor*
* *
On the 27th of October 2012, The Calais Aeroclub is organising an "open
day" from 10:00 am to 18:00 pm open to all - pilots and all public. This
year is rather exceptional in as such that our Air club is celebrating its
85th anniversary. The local district authorities - who manages the LFAC
airfield - has decided that by promoting our Club as well as their airport
- that all private planes, local or international, no matter their
nationality - that the landing fee on that particular day will be free of
charge..
Soft drinks (Coca Cola, Coffee with or withour milk available on site at
the Club hangar as well as sandwiches. Hot meal is equally available at the
Brasserie des Aviateurs inside the main hall. For your information, Miss
Hardelot 2012 will be present - Miss Hardelot is the local and regional
elected beauty queen.
In the club hangar, we will present various old and recent photos of the
club, various planes (Regis Delbaert, a T6 plane -belonging to Gilles and
other planes - obviously outside. The Air club comity and myself hope that
you could participate on this exceptional day for our club. The more planes
land at LFAC - landing is FOC as mentioned above - can only be encouraging
for our club not forgetting the local authorities who endeavour in
promoting their airfield.
Obviously, this day and success depends on weather conditions. Rain clouds
or wind is not welcomed on this particular day.
All the best to all of you. Hope to see you soon.
Sincerest regards
Alain Castille
A=E9roclub de Calais Chair**
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Hi All,
No one spotted my deliberate mistake in my earlier posting, re the interfer
ence fit of the pins.......a typo....
Should have read as 0.0007'' undersize holes in the torque tube, so not a j
ob for the local blacksmith !
I was talking to someone about Bud's cooling the pins system when it dawned
on my I had missed a zero......
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:26
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
Hi Alan,
Can't believe LaaLaaLand won't let you put Inspection Panels in as per the
Manual ?
If you have no panels back there at all, installing some as directed in the
relevant Chapter won't be a ''Mod'', just bringing you airframe in complia
nce with what has been approved ?
The small spy hole lets you see in there, the larger access hole is in the
correct position for you to get your arm in, folded round the corner and ab
le to work on the torque tube / trim items.
I would be tempted to do it, get it signed off by an Inspector, raise a Wor
ksheet and make an entry in the aircraft's Log Book, at the same time as do
ing the pin work.
On next years Permit Renewal Form, in the ''any repairs / work carried out
since the last Permit'' question, list the Pin repair work and the addition
of inspection panels as per Chapter 23, P 3,4,5 ?
The torque tube CAN be got out by working down the ''tunnel''.
As you have noted, support the rear fuselage with a padded trestle. Fill th
e baggage area with foam / cushions to the height of the seatback / D panel
hole so you can ''surf'' in and out. If you have the Classic fuel filler,
take the hose off and plug the tank inlet.
Get cushions and carpet offcuts in the rear hull so you don't point load th
e skin with elbows etc, 3 or 4 layers of carpet / underlay should do. Unbol
t the pitch pushrod containment tower and remove, should be 8 bolts / nuts
holding it to the hull / roof, and 2 on the wooden cross piece [ 3/8'' & 1/
4'' spanners].Weight the tailplanes aft down and tie the stick forward to p
ark the mass balance weight up in the roof. Surf aft and unbolt the mass ba
lance arm, 2 bolts / nuts [3/8''&1/4''] and pushrod, 1 bolt / nut [1/2'' &3
/8'' ] from the horn. Bung the arm out and lay the pushrod in the hull. Pad
under / over the pushrod so any body weight on it doesn't hurt it.Also pro
tect the two glass lay up brackets in the hull for the tower, fill between
with stiff foam so they don't get broken.
Pad your self up from the hull with cushions so you adopt the ''Superman''
position, with your arm outstretched in front of you, you will have to hold
yourself up with the palm of your hand while you are straightening the spl
it pin and pulling it out, pointed nose pliers and gently used cutters are
needed to pull / curl the split pins out. Start with the outer pins first.
Pull the drive pin out with Mole Grips.
You can now rotate the entire torque tube to allow better access to the rem
aining 2 split pins.
Mark everything as to its position, I put a red blob inside the bottom of t
he port end on the main tube [ paint or nail varnish ] this won't get knock
ed off at the Machine Shop. Mark all else with a indellable marker pen, ie
Port / Stb TP12, TP 10 collars, with both the writing as to where, and a li
ne though the lot so it can go together on the bench back in the same way.
The red nail varnish on the Port TP12 in a place that won't get knocked off
is a good plan.
Cool lighting in there is needed, so not a 100 watt lead lamp ! and a fan b
lowing in helps.
Could take 3 to 4 hours of sweating and swearing to get it out, bit longer
to put it back.
Tools needed. Imperial spanners [ wrenches for those in the US] & Imperial
sockets [ 1/4'' , 3/8'' , 1/2''] needle nose pliers, Mole [Vise] grips, si
de cutters, copper / hide hammer, a selection of punches, magnetic bowl [ t
o put the bolts / nuts in when you are in there, to stop them escaping ] an
d a swear box. I have the cranked arm / long pushrod ratchet spanners which
help to reach the bolt heads. To get a spanner on the nuts [1/4'' & 3/8'']
I have B&Q plastic13mm double pipe clips [ as used to mount central heatin
g pipes] to bolt the other end of the spanners to, which spring on to the t
wo 1/2'' tube arms [ you can't get both arms up there at the same time ].
Entrust the assembly to a good Machine Shop to drill / ream to suit the O/S
pins.
Fitting is the reverse of dismantling, only more difficult ! Hard bit is ge
tting the new pins aimed to go in and come out the other side ! I am workin
g on a clamp / aiming / thumbscrew / press gizzmo at the moment, watch this
space.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:03
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
Thanks Neville.
honed the LAA today ref. New Inspection Hole.
asically No,
s i,m in the UK its new dowels and clamps approved by LAA.
o i have to find a small person to climb down inside the tunnel after havin
g
emoved the mass balance weight.
assume this is the easiest way to get at the pins, as you can see them.
bviously with the tail propped,and all the panels off for light and air.
f i go about it this way.
ow long to get it out., and do you see any other problem,
egards
lan
ead this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: danny shepherd <danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mod 73
On 24/10/2012 21:23, Neville Eyre wrote:
Dam, I just saked my local blacksmith to fix thew plroblem
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-) .
> Hi All,
> No one spotted my deliberate mistake in my earlier posting, re the
> interference fit of the pins.......a typo....
> Should have read as 0.0007'' undersize holes in the torque tube, so
> not a job for the local blacksmith !
> I was talking to someone about Bud's cooling the pins system when it
> dawned on my I had missed a zero......
> Cheers,
> Nev.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>
> To: europa-list
> Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:26
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
>
> Hi Alan,
> Can't believe LaaLaaLand won't let you put Inspection Panels in as per
> the Manual ?
> If you have no panels back there at all, installing some as directed
> in the relevant Chapter won't be a ''Mod'', just bringing you airframe
> in compliance with what has been approved ?
> The small spy hole lets you see in there, the larger access hole is in
> the correct position for you to get your arm in, folded round the
> corner and able to work on the torque tube / trim items.
> I would be tempted to do it, get it signed off by an Inspector, raise
> a Worksheet and make an entry in the aircraft's Log Book, at the same
> time as doing the pin work.
> On next years Permit Renewal Form, in the ''any repairs / work carried
> out since the last Permit'' question, list the Pin repair work and the
> addition of inspection panels as per Chapter 23, P 3,4,5 ?
> The torque tube CAN be got out by working down the ''tunnel''.
> As you have noted, support the rear fuselage with a padded trestle.
> Fill the baggage area with foam / cushions to the height of the
> seatback / D panel hole so you can ''surf'' in and out. If you have
> the Classic fuel filler, take the hose off and plug the tank inlet.
> Get cushions and carpet offcuts in the rear hull so you don't point
> load the skin with elbows etc, 3 or 4 layers of carpet / underlay
> should do. Unbolt the pitch pushrod containment tower and remove,
> should be 8 bolts / nuts holding it to the hull / roof, and 2 on the
> wooden cross piece [ 3/8'' & 1/4'' spanners].Weight the tailplanes
> aft down and tie the stick forward to park the mass balance weight up
> in the roof. Surf aft and unbolt the mass balance arm, 2 bolts /
> nuts [3/8''&1/4''] and pushrod, 1 bolt / nut [1/2'' &3/8'' ] from the
> horn. Bung the arm out and lay the pushrod in the hull. Pad under /
> over the pushrod so any body weight on it doesn't hurt it.Also protect
> the two glass lay up brackets in the hull for the tower, fill
> between with stiff foam so they don't get broken.
> Pad your self up from the hull with cushions so you adopt the
> ''Superman'' position, with your arm outstretched in front of you, you
> will have to hold yourself up with the palm of your hand while you are
> straightening the split pin and pulling it out, pointed nose pliers
> and gently used cutters are needed to pull / curl the split pins out.
> Start with the outer pins first.
> Pull the drive pin out with Mole Grips.
> You can now rotate the entire torque tube to allow better access to
> the remaining 2 split pins.
> Mark everything as to its position, I put a red blob inside the bottom
> of the port end on the main tube [ paint or nail varnish ] this won't
> get knocked off at the Machine Shop. Mark all else with a indellable
> marker pen, ie Port / Stb TP12, TP 10 collars, with both the writing
> as to where, and a line though the lot so it can go together on the
> bench back in the same way. The red nail varnish on the Port TP12 in a
> place that won't get knocked off is a good plan.
> Cool lighting in there is needed, so not a 100 watt lead lamp ! and a
> fan blowing in helps.
> Could take 3 to 4 hours of sweating and swearing to get it out, bit
> longer to put it back.
> Tools needed. Imperial spanners [ wrenches for those in the US] &
> Imperial sockets [ 1/4'' , 3/8'' , 1/2''] needle nose pliers, Mole
> [Vise] grips, side cutters, copper / hide hammer, a selection of
> punches, magnetic bowl [ to put the bolts / nuts in when you are in
> there, to stop them escaping ] and a swear box. I have the cranked arm
> / long pushrod ratchet spanners which help to reach the bolt heads. To
> get a spanner on the nuts [1/4'' & 3/8''] I have B&Q plastic13mm
> double pipe clips [ as used to mount central heating pipes] to bolt
> the other end of the spanners to, which spring on to the two 1/2''
> tube arms [ you can't get both arms up there at the same time ].
> Entrust the assembly to a good Machine Shop to drill / ream to suit
> the O/S pins.
> Fitting is the reverse of dismantling, only more difficult ! Hard bit
> is getting the new pins aimed to go in and come out the other side ! I
> am working on a clamp / aiming / thumbscrew / press gizzmo at the
> moment, watch this space.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net
> >
> To: europa-list >
> Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:03
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 73
>
>
> Thanks Neville.
> Phoned the LAA today ref. New Inspection Hole.
> Basically No,
> As i,m in the UK its new dowels and clamps approved by LAA.
> So i have to find a small person to climb down inside the tunnel after having
> removed the mass balance weight.
> I assume this is the easiest way to get at the pins, as you can see them.
>
> Obviously with the tail propped,and all the panels off for light and air.
> If i go about it this way.
> How long to get it out., and do you see any other problem,
> Regards
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385573#385573
>
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
> arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Drop of the hat Calais this Saturday
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Sounds good Ivor - sorry I will be over in the USA but hope you get good
weather and some decent response to the fly-in.
Regards
Steve Pitt
----- Original Message -----
From: PHILLIPS I
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 5:06 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Drop of the hat Calais this Saturday
Drop of the hat Calais this Saturday 27
Hi Guys
The weather is looking hopeful for this weekend, with free landing
and food its an event worth making an effort for, Hope to see a bunch
of Europa's there,
Ivor
On the 27th of October 2012, The Calais Aeroclub is organising an
"open day" from 10:00 am to 18:00 pm open to all - pilots and all
public. This year is rather exceptional in as such that our Air club is
celebrating its 85th anniversary. The local district authorities - who
manages the LFAC airfield - has decided that by promoting our Club as
well as their airport - that all private planes, local or international,
no matter their nationality - that the landing fee on that particular
day will be free of charge..
Soft drinks (Coca Cola, Coffee with or withour milk available on site
at the Club hangar as well as sandwiches. Hot meal is equally available
at the Brasserie des Aviateurs inside the main hall. For your
information, Miss Hardelot 2012 will be present - Miss Hardelot is the
local and regional elected beauty queen.
In the club hangar, we will present various old and recent photos of
the club, various planes (Regis Delbaert, a T6 plane -belonging to
Gilles and other planes - obviously outside. The Air club comity and
myself hope that you could participate on this exceptional day for our
club. The more planes land at LFAC - landing is FOC as mentioned above -
can only be encouraging for our club not forgetting the local
authorities who endeavour in promoting their airfield.
Obviously, this day and success depends on weather conditions. Rain
clouds or wind is not welcomed on this particular day.
All the best to all of you. Hope to see you soon.
Sincerest regards
Alain Castille
A=E9roclub de Calais Chair
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Working cabin heater
From: "ploucandco" <jacques(at)platisource.com>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Hello all,
The cold season is starting this week in Eastern Europe!
I am looking at options to have a really working cabin heater for my rotax 914
based Europa. Mean that it is still warm enough in the cabin at -20C (flying in
winter when everything is white is something marvelous).
My understanding is that only a heater with air warmed from the exhaust will achieve
that.
Does someone has pictures/instruction/specific parts of a working system for a
914 Europa?
Thanks, Jacques
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385933#385933
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
ploucandco a crit :
>
> Hello all,
>
> The cold season is starting this week in Eastern Europe!
>
> I am looking at options to have a really working cabin heater for my rotax 914
based Europa. Mean that it is still warm enough in the cabin at -20C (flying
in winter when everything is white is something marvelous).
>
> My understanding is that only a heater with air warmed from the exhaust will
achieve that.
>
> Does someone has pictures/instruction/specific parts of a working system for
a 914 Europa?
>
Jacques,
Here what we did :
http://contrails.free.fr/cellule_chauffage_en.php
Very efficient, no fumes, but you need a correctly designed *radiator duct.*
Hope this helps,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Hi Group
With regard to getting a good fit of pins on my quick build tailplanes
that had a lot of play at the tip of the stabilators from the get go (at
least 1"), I machined my own pins.
What I found was that even while taking extreme care using slightly
undersized drill, then reaming to size using plenty of cutting fluid (10
mm), the hole although it was close to proper size (using precision guage
pins in .0001 steps to measure), it was a pretty poor finish on the hole
if you look with a microscope. In other words half of the metal was only
making contact with the pin! After a bit of head scratching, I machined a
number of pins with .0001" tolerance in incremental size. I was able
to tap these in using lubricant until I could see and feel that there was
good contact. Then measuring with my precision pins, I made the
"real deal" pins between .0007 to m.0009" interference fit
of this "sized" hole. I cheated a little bit where I made the
first hole the pin would go in a few tenths larger at least than the
second hole, and made the pin a dog bone shape, where the center was a
few thousands smaller in diameter so it would not drag and oversize the
first hole. The only interference fit on the pin was ~ 1/8" longer
than needed. Machining to .0001" takes a bit of practice, but what I
did was laid out all my holes and machined the first pin the largest
size. This way if I went under, I was able to use this now undersized pin
for the smaller holes. Anyway about 33% scrap, not too bad. End result
was a really nice fit during final assembly. You can't use a
lath tool bit to work within .0001", you need to lap your size. If
you're lucky you may get within less than a thousand, if not two or
three thousands. In other words, wet and dry sandpaper glued to a
tongue depressor. Using a precision micrometer, use sandpaper on any over
sized areas to keep uniform diameter. net is you can work within amazing
tolerances! I made out of free machining 410 stainless purchased from
www.mcmaster.com
To make dogbone was easy. Tape over area of interference fit and using
tongue depressor with sandpaper go after what you want to make
undersized. Perhaps takes 5 or 10 minutes each pin.
If you want to see some pics, look under Torque Tube fit:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86924
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: "ploucandco" <jacques(at)platisource.com>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Merci Gilles.
I saw this one but on the Europa, it seems that the amount of heat going in the
cockpit with an engine at the lower green limits (winter time!) is not enough
to warm up the cabin.
If someone can prove me the opposite, I am happy to hear.
Jacques.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385938#385938
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Working cabin heater
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Jacques
On the Club Web site you will find a copy of the Mod 10986 which describes
the heater fitted to G-JULZ. A number of other aircraft have very similar
installations. It is also very similar to the MCR-4S heater described by
Gilles.
Here is a direct link to the Mod
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/10986all.pdf
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: "ploucandco" <jacques(at)platisource.com>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Thanks Ian. I saw this one as well. The goal is to get +15C in the cabin when the
outside air is -20C.
Do you or someone else have positive experience that this system will provide
this +35C difference in temperature?
Sorry to be difficult but I read a few times that such heater will work well when
the engine is running hot. Mine is running cool in winter.
Jacques
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385943#385943
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Reserve Fuel
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Hi All.
I am just putting this in as it may be of use to low hour flyer's or owners that
purchased there aircraft like me.
I purchased my Europa about 3 months ago and have clocked up just over 35 hours
in her.
The previous owner flew her in to Headcorn and basically said nothing , leaving
the plane with a 600 rpm Mag drop which i had to fix.
Eventually I went flying loading extra fuel as i did not know the aeroplane, and
thinking the fuel gauge might be over read a little thinking maybe 5 to 8 litres.
A few weeks later i decided to drain the tanks and check the gauge, lucky i did
for a couple of reasons as follows.
I drained both Main and Reserve as i did not know which tank saddle was the reserve,
more by chance i drained the Main tanks Saddle first,
it was a long process as i used the fuel drain valves under the aircrafts belly.
Then i drained the Reserve the same way ,Here i made a discovery, the 8 litres
of drained fuel was Stale, contained particles and some emulsified water droplets.
I concluded from my detective work (1) That the previous owner never used the Reserve
Side of the Tank, and (2) That even though the Fuel Filler Cap Hose goes
down the same side as the Reserve saddle the fuel in the reserve does not mix
so leaving old stale dirty fuel in the saddle.
I have flow 4 Europa's and nothing about Checking Reserve was printed one there
Check Lists, so i suspect they are quit a few who never use the Reserve,??
So I have added a line to my Check List, Taxing In on Reserve, and then change
back to Main, I am not likely to use Reserve, and the least i fiddle with before
Take Off suits me.
At least i know i have fresh clean fuel there should i need it, And Taxing In after
flying gets me use to putting my hand down the tunnel and correctly moving
the fuel cock to the correct selections.
I refilled the tank using a 5 litre cans checking the gauge and making a Fuel Ref
Chart, to my surprise 58 Lts on the gauge equaled 35 Ltr actually in the tank.
It was way out, i must have been very close empty at times, Now i am using my Chart/Gauge
tables which is quit accurate. I will get round to re calibrating the
gauge now i have instruction Manual. So (3) Know what's actually in the Tank.
I have no fuel filters just a Gasolator, so in cleaning this , i run some main
fuel then and some reserve fuel, having selected Reserve no fuel came through,
another discovery, i have to put my hand down the tunnel to get at the fuel cock,
and selected the fuel cock pointer, to the ON RESERVE position , but was
actually selected to the FUEL OFF position, ie the fuel cock handle position
for Reserve was not as i would have thought to be,it looked and appeared to me
to be set correctly.
(4) Check and Confirm the position and look of the lever for, Fuel Off and the
position and look of the lever for Fuel Reserve , (I am referring to the old early
stile fuel cocks)( not the little Red new type cocks)
I know some have all the latest gismo's , but others with just the bare bones may
find this helpful.
So in a nutshell, Fuel/Gauge Tables,Handle the Fuel Cock,Burn some Reserve.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385950#385950
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Alan,
Interesting finds. For the Monowheel Classic, the best!
I normally run my reserve in the cruise to avoid what you have said and keep the
fuel flow exercised from both sides. Back to Main for LDG and TO.
I placed an extension (workshop drill extension adaptor) from the fuel cock to
bring it to be easily accessible to the pilot as the fuel selector on the centre
armrest.
Was the Fuel Gauged table measurements done with the aircraft in the flying attitude?
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
On 25/10/2012, at 9:23 AM, "Alan Carter" wrote:
>
> Hi All.
> I am just putting this in as it may be of use to low hour flyer's or owners that
purchased there aircraft like me.
> I purchased my Europa about 3 months ago and have clocked up just over 35 hours
in her.
> The previous owner flew her in to Headcorn and basically said nothing , leaving
the plane with a 600 rpm Mag drop which i had to fix.
> Eventually I went flying loading extra fuel as i did not know the aeroplane,
and thinking the fuel gauge might be over read a little thinking maybe 5 to 8
litres.
>
> A few weeks later i decided to drain the tanks and check the gauge, lucky i did
for a couple of reasons as follows.
> I drained both Main and Reserve as i did not know which tank saddle was the reserve,
more by chance i drained the Main tanks Saddle first,
> it was a long process as i used the fuel drain valves under the aircrafts belly.
> Then i drained the Reserve the same way ,Here i made a discovery, the 8 litres
of drained fuel was Stale, contained particles and some emulsified water droplets.
> I concluded from my detective work (1) That the previous owner never used the
Reserve Side of the Tank, and (2) That even though the Fuel Filler Cap Hose goes
down the same side as the Reserve saddle the fuel in the reserve does not
mix so leaving old stale dirty fuel in the saddle.
> I have flow 4 Europa's and nothing about Checking Reserve was printed one there
Check Lists, so i suspect they are quit a few who never use the Reserve,??
> So I have added a line to my Check List, Taxing In on Reserve, and then change
back to Main, I am not likely to use Reserve, and the least i fiddle with before
Take Off suits me.
> At least i know i have fresh clean fuel there should i need it, And Taxing In
after flying gets me use to putting my hand down the tunnel and correctly moving
the fuel cock to the correct selections.
>
> I refilled the tank using a 5 litre cans checking the gauge and making a Fuel
Ref Chart, to my surprise 58 Lts on the gauge equaled 35 Ltr actually in the
tank.
> It was way out, i must have been very close empty at times, Now i am using my
Chart/Gauge tables which is quit accurate. I will get round to re calibrating
the gauge now i have instruction Manual. So (3) Know what's actually in the Tank.
> I have no fuel filters just a Gasolator, so in cleaning this , i run some main
fuel then and some reserve fuel, having selected Reserve no fuel came through,
another discovery, i have to put my hand down the tunnel to get at the fuel
cock, and selected the fuel cock pointer, to the ON RESERVE position , but was
actually selected to the FUEL OFF position, ie the fuel cock handle position
for Reserve was not as i would have thought to be,it looked and appeared to
me to be set correctly.
> (4) Check and Confirm the position and look of the lever for, Fuel Off and the
position and look of the lever for Fuel Reserve , (I am referring to the old
early stile fuel cocks)( not the little Red new type cocks)
> I know some have all the latest gismo's , but others with just the bare bones
may find this helpful.
> So in a nutshell, Fuel/Gauge Tables,Handle the Fuel Cock,Burn some Reserve.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385950#385950
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2012
Subject: Introducing Aircraft Specialty
From: Aircraft Specialty <aircraftspecialty(at)gmail.com>
Good evening fellow builders, pilots and enthusiasts. I want to take this
opportunity to introduce Aircraft Specialty.
We have been working the last few months on developing a web presence and
already count a lot of you as customers and friends.
Our mission is simple=85..we want to help fellow builders out by building a
nd
selling the highest quality products at the best prices with excellent
customer service. We will do whatever it takes to earn your business and
make sure that you are a satisfied customer not just in the days and weeks
after your purchase, but forever.
Also, we know that your time is extremely valuable, so we have tried to
make our web site extremely user friendly. We have developed several
interactive applications to simplify some things. For instance, if you
need a data plate or are looking to have your fuel caps engraved, you can
input all the data on our website exactly as you would like it to appear,
add it to your cart and purchase without having to email back and forth to
get set up. We also have developed an interactive pricing application to
let you design and price custom fuel lines or battery cables right on the
website and order with our interactive application. It=92s never been
easier.
We have also been diligently working on new products to enhance the
experience of builders. We are extremely excited to announce the
=93Signature Series=94 line of parts to the community. Anything with this
logo
on it is something that we manufacture in house. It is of the highest
quality and also carries our limited lifetime warranty. We have some very
unique items, such as our Aftermarket Flap handle, which not only looks
great and is easy to install, but also solves a problem that plagues many
toggle switches. Our won=92t rotate with the toggle and as such provides a
great looking alternative to a standard toggle switch at a price that is
cheaper than any other flap shaped switch. We also have a unique, great
looking alternate static system that will integrate with the SafeAir1
system, and also eventually our own pitot static system that we are
developing.
Since we have extremely low overhead and make many of the parts in house,
we are able to offer incredible pricing. This also holds true on our
clecos and bucking bars. We have been able to secure great pricing due to
high volume purchases and rather than keeping our already low prices the
same, we have lowered them to pass the savings on to our customers.
You can take a look at all of our products by remembering one of three
website names. We can be found at www.aircraftspecialty.com,
www.kitplanemods.com, or www.kitplanehoses.com. All three domains will
take you to the same place.
Finally, as a fellow builder, I would like to let everyone know that this
business will evolve around YOUR needs. I really welcome comments as well
as any constructive criticism that you may have. I definitely welcome
the creativity of the homebuilding community and would like to help develop
new products that you are interested in. This will benefit the entire
community in the long run.
If you run into any website issues, please let me know as we are still a
small but rapidly growing company and do all our IT in house and will do
our best to resolve it
Thank you for your time, and we look forward to earning your business.
Steve and Dawn
steve(at)aircraftspecialty.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hi Tim.
NZ a beautiful county i had a holiday there.
I have done my time on Chipmunks, My Europa is a Mono to Tri Conversion
so maybe better! well a lot easier.
The Fuel/Tables were done with the aircraft just in its level position on level
ground, a couple of litres either way i am not bothering about as if i was down
to 15 litres i would be quit worried.
Glad you use the reserve fuel, just my choice taxing in on reserve,
I like your idea of the extended lever, is it guarded or recessed, can you give
some more on how to do it.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385966#385966
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Selector Extension
From: Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hi Alan,
So the fuel cock is mounted on the floor on the fuselage between the seats and
the pilot has to access a door to reach down and change to RESERVE in an emergency.
NOT GOOD!
So I took off the fuel selector arm and replaced it with a drill extension rod
that you can buy down at your local hardware shop. One end has a female adaptor
with a grub screw to tighten onto the male axle of the fuel selector cock. (Sounds
a little rude!) The other end you can cut to length so that the end will
appear above the door through a hole directly above the fuel cock. You can then
file the end to the shape of the selector hole to fit it, orientated in the
same way as the selector was below.
I replaced the door with an aluminum piece and then inscribed on the aluminum OFF/
MAIN /RESERVE and incorporated a spring loaded stop bar to stop turning the
selector to OFF by mistake.
Consequently you have easily available the ability to switch tanks and turn the
fuel off, if necessary, with seconds.
I made a bigger selector out of blue foam shaped around the metal selector and
then fiberglass to strengthen it, glued and painted.
Sorry I haven't a photo as I am in Japan but will be back on Saturday and will
try to remember to send you a photo as a picture is much easier to understand.
Please remind me if you go ahead with this Tim Ward Mod.
All the best,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
From: roddyeuropa(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hi Alan
I'd add a couple of things - you have the fuel drain mod installed which is
good. But be aware that you need to drain more fuel than a normal fuel dra
in to clear the fuel in the lines between the drain and the tank. I drain a
bout 'half jam jar' each side.
Also, the fuel return from the engine should be feeding into the reserves s
ide so it should refresh the fuel. But if fueling the plane doesn't get to
the bottom of the tank to stir things up, the return flow certainly won't.
But it worth checking that the fuel return is happening.
Regards
Roddy Kesterton
G-IKRK
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Sent: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 8:56
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reserve Fuel
Hi Tim.
Z a beautiful county i had a holiday there.
have done my time on Chipmunks, My Europa is a Mono to Tri Conversion
o maybe better! well a lot easier.
he Fuel/Tables were done with the aircraft just in its level position on le
vel
round, a couple of litres either way i am not bothering about as if i was d
own
o 15 litres i would be quit worried.
lad you use the reserve fuel, just my choice taxing in on reserve,
like your idea of the extended lever, is it guarded or recessed, can you g
ive
ome more on how to do it.
lan
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385966#385966
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Fuel Selector Extension
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Alan,
One other thing I did.
I drilled a hole in the rod extension (door end) and tapped it to be able to screw
the same small bolt in to it to tighten the selector to the rod extension.
Most important. Works a treat.
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
On 25/10/2012, at 5:38 PM, Tim Ward wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
> So the fuel cock is mounted on the floor on the fuselage between the seats and
the pilot has to access a door to reach down and change to RESERVE in an emergency.
NOT GOOD!
> So I took off the fuel selector arm and replaced it with a drill extension rod
that you can buy down at your local hardware shop. One end has a female adaptor
with a grub screw to tighten onto the male axle of the fuel selector cock.
(Sounds a little rude!) The other end you can cut to length so that the end will
appear above the door through a hole directly above the fuel cock. You can
then file the end to the shape of the selector hole to fit it, orientated in
the same way as the selector was below.
> I replaced the door with an aluminum piece and then inscribed on the aluminum
OFF/ MAIN /RESERVE and incorporated a spring loaded stop bar to stop turning
the selector to OFF by mistake.
> Consequently you have easily available the ability to switch tanks and turn the
fuel off, if necessary, with seconds.
> I made a bigger selector out of blue foam shaped around the metal selector and
then fiberglass to strengthen it, glued and painted.
> Sorry I haven't a photo as I am in Japan but will be back on Saturday and will
try to remember to send you a photo as a picture is much easier to understand.
> Please remind me if you go ahead with this Tim Ward Mod.
>
> All the best,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
>
> Ph 64 3 3515166
> Mob 0210640221
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Alan
Adding and extension, as Tim has done, is a great improvement.
Unfortunately owners experience is that the Europa supplied valve becomes
stiff to turn after about 150 hours. I replaced mine at 200 hours and
replaced the replacement with an Andair at 275 hours.
Replacement with an Andair is a Standard Mod and details are available on
the Club and LAA web sites.
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SM13342-1Andair.pdf
The example check list the club publishes on our site
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sample-checklist.pdf
does stipulate starting on Reserve for the reasons you have outlined.
Possibly we should give greater emphasis to this as some pilots may be using
check lists which have dropped this requirement.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Reserve Fuel
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hi Alan,
I am probably "telling grandmother how to suck eggs" But I discovered the hard
way that the plastic 5 litre containers can hold far more than 5 litres. Did you
calibrate your 5 litre can before you used it to calibrate your system? The
Europa fuel tank does change shape during its life so recalibration is needed
but I would not expect the extent of error that you described. I would expect
to see a tank capacity of between 58 and 61 litres, not including the reserve
section.
As I am sure you have spotted, the fuel sender (assuming it is the standard Europa
fit) only measures the fuel contents from one side of the saddle so if you
are measuring from a complete empty situation, the first 8-9 litres goes into
the reserve and does not show on the gauge. Also, the standard fuel sender only
has 8 reed switches on it, so the fuel contents "jumps" in steps of about 7
litres.
The other thing to be aware of is that if you are draining fuel via the water drains
(assuming again that you have the standard water drains mod fitted) it is
very hard to completely empty the tank if the aircraft is a Trigear. You are
probably better off emptying the tank by use of the electric pump, having disconnected
the fuel hose at the mechanical fuel pump. That way you get down to
a genuine minimum useable fuel level at flying attitude. This would be your
zero point for fuel gauge calibration.
The process that I follow, from a completely empty tank, is to pour in about 10
litrs of fuel to ensure the reserve side is full. Then drain the main tank again
using the electric pump to remove fuel that has slopped over from the reserve
into the main area. Then start the calibration process.
Again, my apologies if I am stating the obvious.
Regards
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Carter
Sent: 25 October 2012 01:23
Subject: Europa-List: Reserve Fuel
-->
Hi All.
I am just putting this in as it may be of use to low hour flyer's or owners that
purchased there aircraft like me.
I purchased my Europa about 3 months ago and have clocked up just over 35 hours
in her.
The previous owner flew her in to Headcorn and basically said nothing , leaving
the plane with a 600 rpm Mag drop which i had to fix.
Eventually I went flying loading extra fuel as i did not know the aeroplane, and
thinking the fuel gauge might be over read a little thinking maybe 5 to 8 litres.
A few weeks later i decided to drain the tanks and check the gauge, lucky i did
for a couple of reasons as follows.
I drained both Main and Reserve as i did not know which tank saddle was the reserve,
more by chance i drained the Main tanks Saddle first, it was a long process
as i used the fuel drain valves under the aircrafts belly.
Then i drained the Reserve the same way ,Here i made a discovery, the 8 litres
of drained fuel was Stale, contained particles and some emulsified water droplets.
I concluded from my detective work (1) That the previous owner never used the Reserve
Side of the Tank, and (2) That even though the Fuel Filler Cap Hose goes
down the same side as the Reserve saddle the fuel in the reserve does not mix
so leaving old stale dirty fuel in the saddle.
I have flow 4 Europa's and nothing about Checking Reserve was printed one there
Check Lists, so i suspect they are quit a few who never use the Reserve,??
So I have added a line to my Check List, Taxing In on Reserve, and then change
back to Main, I am not likely to use Reserve, and the least i fiddle with before
Take Off suits me.
At least i know i have fresh clean fuel there should i need it, And Taxing In after
flying gets me use to putting my hand down the tunnel and correctly moving
the fuel cock to the correct selections.
I refilled the tank using a 5 litre cans checking the gauge and making a Fuel Ref
Chart, to my surprise 58 Lts on the gauge equaled 35 Ltr actually in the tank.
It was way out, i must have been very close empty at times, Now i am using my Chart/Gauge
tables which is quit accurate. I will get round to re calibrating the
gauge now i have instruction Manual. So (3) Know what's actually in the Tank.
I have no fuel filters just a Gasolator, so in cleaning this , i run some main
fuel then and some reserve fuel, having selected Reserve no fuel came through,
another discovery, i have to put my hand down the tunnel to get at the fuel cock,
and selected the fuel cock pointer, to the ON RESERVE position , but was
actually selected to the FUEL OFF position, ie the fuel cock handle position
for Reserve was not as i would have thought to be,it looked and appeared to me
to be set correctly.
(4) Check and Confirm the position and look of the lever for, Fuel Off and the
position and look of the lever for Fuel Reserve , (I am referring to the old early
stile fuel cocks)( not the little Red new type cocks) I know some have all
the latest gismo's , but others with just the bare bones may find this helpful.
So in a nutshell, Fuel/Gauge Tables,Handle the Fuel Cock,Burn some Reserve.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385950#385950
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Jaques,
I also plan this sort of installation (http://www.customflightcreations.com/id18.html) this winter, thus cannot yet post my experiences so far.
My (conventional Rotax 914) engine installation is also running cool at low OAT,
therefore I installed a water thermostat (an additional oil thermostat might
also be an option) - this should help a little.
Roland
XS Trigear 914
PH-ZTI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385979#385979
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com>
Hi Roland
I have a similar set up in my 914 but without the water thermostat,
Using one will reduce the water temperature in the Radiator but will
Increase the engine water temperature only,
You would be better of fitting a cowl flap to reduce cold airflow through
The radiator so increasing air temperature behind the radiator then to the
cabin,
My heater certainly takes the chill out of the air making flying pleasant
down to minus 5 C, but it isn=92t as warm as the average car heater,
This I intend to rectify this winter=92s maintenance layup with improved
Ducting and insulating the heat trunking to the cockpit
Ivor
G-IVER
914XS
On 25 October 2012 14:01, Roland wrote:
>
> Jaques,
>
> I also plan this sort of installation (
> http://www.customflightcreations.com/id18.html) this winter, thus cannot
> yet post my experiences so far.
>
> My (conventional Rotax 914) engine installation is also running cool at
> low OAT, therefore I installed a water thermostat (an additional oil
> thermostat might also be an option) - this should help a little.
>
> Roland
> XS Trigear 914
> PH-ZTI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385979#385979
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Subject: Re: Fuel Selector Extension
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Alan,
this mine.
When building, my logic was:
- "MAIN" (open) is blue (one neutral colour and blue skies) and pointing
forward (because normally you wanna fly forward!)
- "RES" (reserve) is green (the colour with an inbuild good hope) and
pointing upp (because in the case of fuel lack you probably wanna go upp
not down)
- "CLSD" (closed) is red (the colour which is alarming) and pointing
backwards (because in the case you wanna close your tap you do not wanna
fly anymore)
- position downward not possible to select for clarity
Switchable in =BD second.
Backplate is aluminium and carved /colour filled.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
337,40 in an Europa logbook
today 1,5 hours in Messerschmitt BF 109 G with one succesfull landing.
2012/10/25 Tim Ward
>
> Hi Alan,
> So the fuel cock is mounted on the floor on the fuselage between the seat
s
> and the pilot has to access a door to reach down and change to RESERVE in
> an emergency. NOT GOOD!
> So I took off the fuel selector arm and replaced it with a drill extensio
n
> rod that you can buy down at your local hardware shop. One end has a fema
le
> adaptor with a grub screw to tighten onto the male axle of the fuel
> selector cock. (Sounds a little rude!) The other end you can cut to lengt
h
> so that the end will appear above the door through a hole directly above
> the fuel cock. You can then file the end to the shape of the selector hol
e
> to fit it, orientated in the same way as the selector was below.
> I replaced the door with an aluminum piece and then inscribed on the
> aluminum OFF/ MAIN /RESERVE and incorporated a spring loaded stop bar to
> stop turning the selector to OFF by mistake.
> Consequently you have easily available the ability to switch tanks and
> turn the fuel off, if necessary, with seconds.
> I made a bigger selector out of blue foam shaped around the metal selecto
r
> and then fiberglass to strengthen it, glued and painted.
> Sorry I haven't a photo as I am in Japan but will be back on Saturday and
> will try to remember to send you a photo as a picture is much easier to
> understand.
> Please remind me if you go ahead with this Tim Ward Mod.
>
> All the best,
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
>
> Ph 64 3 3515166
> Mob 0210640221
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info(at)rwm.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hello Ivor,
as for the temperature in the radiator with a thermostat you are right of course
- never thought about it before.
Nevertheless I prefer the thermostat compared to the cowl flap since there's no
additional controls to care about. At very low temperatures some duct tape should
also do the same job as a cowl flap - although far less sophisticated and
less controllable.
Because some say that no heating at all is needed in the Europa I'm confident,
that Bud Yerly's design works okay for me.
I get more and more a guess, why our Europas are classified as "Experimentals".
Roland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386008#386008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon
From: "ploucandco" <jacques(at)platisource.com>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hello David, don't know where you are with the Dynon AOA, but the following video
(well based on an Advanced EFIS) could be instructive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=985BkVkRDUs
Jacques.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386010#386010
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Hello Brian and All
I have not flown for 14 years and a small plane for 30 years,
My machine for the past 14 years was my Honda Blackbird at 200mph a bit faster
than the Europa, but as the sticker on the wind shield says,
"Id rather be flying"
So thank you NPPL i have my L plates on again, keep the posts coming in, its surprising
how much one forgets with the passage of time.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386011#386011
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel selector stiff
From: "egp8111" <egp8111(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
My fuel selector hasn't been getting much exercise in the last few years and has
gotten rather stiff to operate. It's awkward enough getting to it in the tunnel
but as stiff as it is it's almost impossible to operate from the pilot seat.
Anyone have any solutions to getting it to loosen back up.
thanks,
E.G.
mono classic sr. #A009
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386012#386012
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Selector Extension
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Oct 25, 2012
Raimo,
To heck with pictures of fuel selectors. I want to see pictures and
movies of the BF-109G!! Is it as difficult a beast on takeoff and
landing as rumored? Tell us more!
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Oct 25, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Alan,
this mine.
When building, my logic was:
- "MAIN" (open) is blue (one neutral colour and blue skies) and pointing
forward (because normally you wanna fly forward!)
- "RES" (reserve) is green (the colour with an inbuild good hope) and
pointing upp (because in the case of fuel lack you probably wanna go upp
not down)
- "CLSD" (closed) is red (the colour which is alarming) and pointing
backwards (because in the case you wanna close your tap you do not wanna
fly anymore)
- position downward not possible to select for clarity
Switchable in =BD second.
Backplate is aluminium and carved /colour filled.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
337,40 in an Europa logbook
today 1,5 hours in Messerschmitt BF 109 G with one succesfull landing.
--
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info(at)rwm.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Selector Extension
Date: Oct 26, 2012
Me too!!!
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Borger
Sent: 25 October 2012 19:27
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Selector Extension
Raimo,
To heck with pictures of fuel selectors. I want to see pictures and
movies
of the BF-109G!! Is it as difficult a beast on takeoff and landing as
rumored? Tell us more!
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Oct 25, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Alan,
this mine.
When building, my logic was:
- "MAIN" (open) is blue (one neutral colour and blue skies) and pointing
forward (because normally you wanna fly forward!)
- "RES" (reserve) is green (the colour with an inbuild good hope) and
pointing upp (because in the case of fuel lack you probably wanna go upp
not
down)
- "CLSD" (closed) is red (the colour which is alarming) and pointing
backwards (because in the case you wanna close your tap you do not wanna
fly
anymore)
- position downward not possible to select for clarity
Switchable in =BD second.
Backplate is aluminium and carved /colour filled.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
337,40 in an Europa logbook
today 1,5 hours in Messerschmitt BF 109 G with one succesfull landing.
--
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
info(at)rwm.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
From: Jim Brown <acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: 914 surging/loss of power
Jeff. .at about 700 hours I had the same problem, with engine surging.- A
fter replacement of new throttle cable,=0AThe engine was back to normal.=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jeff B <topglock(at)cox.net>
=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:08 PM
=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: 914 surging/loss of power=0A=0A--> Europa-List
message posted by: Jeff B =0A=0ARestricted fuel lines/fi
lters?=0A=0AOn 10/21/2012 4:47 PM, h&jeuropa wrote:=0A> --> Europa-List
message posted by: "h&jeuropa" =0A>=0A> We are stuc
k in Lamar CO with 914 problems.- Have spent most of the day talking to B
ud for ideas. Flew about 4 hours yesterday, stopped for fuel and lunch.-
Takeoff was normal but when leveled off, noted fuel flow was only 3.5 gph,
not the expected 5.5.- Increasing throttle gave more MP but same fuel flo
w.- Engine felt rough or different than normal.=0A>=0A> Landed and inspec
ted under cowl - no problem noted.- We had just gotten fuel so thought ma
ybe that caused it.- Tried flight this morning when it was cooler, had to
make emergency landing because power dropped soon after takeoff.- No vib
ration, just wouldn't climb.- Found that our fuel tank vent was plugged,
cleared it, ran ground tests & Jim did 20 minute solo test flight with no p
roblem.- Loaded plane & departed again, engine power dropped just after g
ear retract, made another emergency landing.- (Obvious answer is don't le
t Heather in the plane- [Wink] )=0A>=0A> At this point we're thinking pul
l carbs for rebuild.- Any other ideas?=0A>=0A> Thanks, Jim & Heather N241
BW=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385747#385747=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A
=========================0A
=================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Oct 26, 2012
Hello All
I have seen a photo of the new Torque Tube made by Europa.
As far as i can make out from the picture, is as follows.
1.Basically the TP9 bell crank in the middle, now has a longer tube on each side,
2.The TB12 Drive Plate also has a longer tube on the inside of the Drive Plate
this being a slightly smaller diameter than the TP9s extended tubes,
So the TP12 Drive plate tube slides directly inside the TP9 Bellcrank tube and
a 3/8" pin as before locks them together.
So instead of the 4 pins previously used, there are now only 2 pins used.
I am saying pins but it could be bolts as i can not tell from the photo.?
i am just describing what i can see from the outside photo.
The price is around 735 incl Vat, not sure if this just for the 3 above components,
or for all the components need, i would guess just the 3 above.
Regards .
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386051#386051
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Hello Roland
I stated couple of years ago a water thermostat is a must and cars have
proved it is something you can really trust.
Some of The Europa List-users claimed I am an idiot because adding that
"complex" item it makes flying too risky (!).
So far I have used it 340 hrs /6 years in my Europa and over 1 million
kilometers /34 years in my cars w/o problems.
There is no known thermostat problems.
In the case of jamming, it will jamm open.
As you wrote, a thermostat is automatic - not manual. That is clever.
In the other hand, some of us like "many manual levers and knobs to move in
and out, upp or down and so".
Maybe that is because those pilots would like to be in their dreams a
captain of multi-engine-machine and have at least 8 throttle /mixture /prop
levers and so to get influence with that girl sitting on the P2 seat.
I have water heated carbs and I am happy I have eliminated one knob then
again.
My grandfather put something front of his cooler to get warmer inside.
I prefer automatic system.
Also in my house.
Also in my life.
I am going to fly tomorrow - I promise it really would be not possible here
in Finland (my base is about N62) just now without a sophisticated
pre-warming /cockpit warming /defrost systems.
It is so terrible cold and freezing here just now - be happy you are not
Finnish today.
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
Our AN-2 was almost flipping over today because She lost suddenly the
airpressure in Her left gear (attachment).
Happily tomorrow there will come here couple of mechanists from Hungary
Nyiregyhaza to solve a problem and make some other "minor adjustments" we
need to operate this Lady fluently.
2012/10/25 Roland
>
> Hello Ivor,
>
> as for the temperature in the radiator with a thermostat you are right of
> course - never thought about it before.
>
> Nevertheless I prefer the thermostat compared to the cowl flap since
> there's no additional controls to care about. At very low temperatures so
me
> duct tape should also do the same job as a cowl flap - although far less
> sophisticated and less controllable.
>
> Because some say that no heating at all is needed in the Europa I'm
> confident, that Bud Yerly's design works okay for me.
>
> I get more and more a guess, why our Europas are classified as
> "Experimentals".
>
> Roland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386008#386008
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info(at)rwm.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
Raimo Toivio a crit :
> Hello Roland
>
> I stated couple of years ago a water thermostat is a must and cars
> have proved it is something you can really trust.
> Some of The Europa List-users claimed I am an idiot because adding
> that "complex" item it makes flying too risky (!).
> So far I have used it 340 hrs /6 years in my Europa and over 1 million
> kilometers /34 years in my cars w/o problems.
> There is no known thermostat problems.
> In the case of jamming, it will jamm open.
>
> As you wrote, a thermostat is automatic - not manual. That is clever.
> In the other hand, some of us like "many manual levers and knobs to
> move in and out, upp or down and so".
> Maybe that is because those pilots would like to be in their dreams a
> captain of multi-engine-machine and have at least 8 throttle /mixture
> /prop levers and so to get influence with that girl sitting on the P2
> seat.
Raimo,
Nothing idiot in a water thermostat. The point is, it only takes care of
water temperatures, and not of cooling *drag*.
With a thermostat, you need to flow lots of air through the radiator,
and only act on the water.
Radiator drag doesn't matter much in a slow vehicle such as a car or an
old fashion already draggy airplane. But in a sleek airplane, always
having maximum radiator drag regardless of flight conditions may amount
to some precious knots or vertical feet per minute or climb out performance.
Bottom line, it is up to the builder.
BTW for the sake of lightness and simplicity, the most important lever
to get rid of in a less than 200 mph airplane is the gear lever ;-)
Below those speed, nothing to be gained with a retracting gear as
opposed to a correctly streamlined fixed gear.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Date: Oct 26, 2012
Hi Raimo,
good to hear that your Antonov stunt turned out well. I guess that who can handle
a Mono can manage almost any taildragger surprises.
BTW, how about the heating system in the AN-2 - the Russians must know the best
about that.
Maybe you are right regarding the knobs and levers but I like to keep it simple
as well.
Good luck tomorrow with the hungarian mechanics, I hope You have a heated hangar
at your disposal.
Greetings from Germany (5C)
Roland
XS Trigear 914
PH-ZTI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386062#386062
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
Fred Klein a crit :
>
> Gilles...in the spirit of :-)....let me guess...your bird is a fixed
> tri-gear, yes?
^^!
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2012
Subject: Re: Fuel Selector Extension
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Hi Bob
Takeoff was like Europa Mono takeoff - quite easy but must be careful and
concentrate to keep it straight. But landing was awful - at least for me.
It was told to me that most of the MEs were destroyed during the war when
landing. Speed over the numbers and when touching must be 250 km/h (135
knots). Mustang P51 (a real one!) was a pussycat to land when compare to
ME109 (please notice that was a Hi-Pe Simulator as I told to Paul, not a
real one [attachment]).
What can I say - I am happy I am living and flying just now and not past as
a fighter pilot during the war.
Raimo
2012/10/26 Robert Borger
> Raimo,
>
> To heck with pictures of fuel selectors. I want to see pictures and
> movies of the BF-109G!! Is it as difficult a beast on takeoff and landin
g
> as rumored? Tell us more!
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger(at)mac.com
>
> On Oct 25, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
> this mine.
>
> When building, my logic was:
>
> - "MAIN" (open) is blue (one neutral colour and blue skies) and pointing
> forward (because normally you wanna fly forward!)
> - "RES" (reserve) is green (the colour with an inbuild good hope) and
> pointing upp (because in the case of fuel lack you probably wanna go upp
> not down)
> - "CLSD" (closed) is red (the colour which is alarming) and pointing
> backwards (because in the case you wanna close your tap you do not wanna
> fly anymore)
> - position downward not possible to select for clarity
>
> Switchable in =BD second.
>
> Backplate is aluminium and carved /colour filled.
>
> Raimo from Finland
> OH-XRT
>
> 337,40 in an Europa logbook
>
> today 1,5 hours in Messerschmitt BF 109 G with one succesfull landing.
>
> --
> Terveisin,
> Raimo Toivio
>
> RWM-SYSTEMS
> "=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
>
> 37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
> FINLAND
>
> p. 03 - 3753 777
> f. 03 - 3753 100
>
> www.rwm.fi
> info(at)rwm.fi
>
>
>
--
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info(at)rwm.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
> Snip ....
/.....//I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada)//. He said
he learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean./
/........//Snip/
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel=0Aanother problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clea
n but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; s
o, more restriction.-=0AYou're right, they are too small. quite high fuel
flow with a 914.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A F
rom: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" =0ATo: euro
pa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01=0ASubject: Re
: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AOn 31/07/2012 22:27, klinef
elter.kevin(at)gmail.com Snip .........I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rot
ech in canada). He said he learned how too small a fuel line and/or torture
d routing can cause "cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s)
, on the suction side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Ma
ybe due to the size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are c
lean.=0A........Snip=0A=0AKevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money wit
h this one.- =0AA year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying
a friend's=0A 914 powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel
pump=0A restored the noise, but once safely back on the ground, I check
ed=0A the filters (all clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa=0A
specified Purolator glass shrouded filters that allow you to see the=0A
fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power was=0A
increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought was air. My=0A
first action was to check the pipework and security of connections -=0A
but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air=0A fr
om anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour lock=0A and
left it at that.=0A=0ACuriosity got the better of me and I started research
ing cavitation=0A and stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting p
resentation on=0A Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 -
in particular,=0A the glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the
Purolator=0A filters.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
=0A=0AMy conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size
=0A to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and=0A
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
From: klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Nigel,
Thanks for the link... Fascinating video.
Kevin
On Oct 29, 2012, at 5:01 AM, "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" wrote:
>
> On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Snip ....
> .....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he lea
rned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause "cavitation
" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side of the pum
p,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size (restriction o
f flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
> ........ Snip
>
> Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
> A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914 po
wered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the noise
, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all clean). Thi
s aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass shrouded filters
that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared ful
l, but as power was increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought w
as air. My first action was to check the pipework and security of connection
s - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air from a
nywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at t
hat.
>
> Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and st
umbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube. Take
a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass venturi. T
his was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
>
> My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to tr
ap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a pressure
drop in the fuel line.
>
> Nigel
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Vapour lock? Why?
Date: Oct 29, 2012
I plumbed those in - following the book - but I see they are probably not
the ideal.
So what's the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so, more
restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side
of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size
(restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to fill
with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the pipework and
security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not
drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour
lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube.
Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass
venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to trap
contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a pressure
drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro===================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too sma
ll for a 914, GAS375 would be the one=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A______________
__________________=0A From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31=0A
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A =0A=0AI plumbed those in
=93 following the book =93 but I see they are probably not the ide
al.=0ASo what=99s the most common solution?=0AWill=0A=C2-=0AFrom:ow
ner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 29 October 2012 05:29=0ATo:
europa-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A
=C2-=0ANigel=0Aanother problem with those filters is that sometimes they
look clean but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet wit
h fuel; so, more restriction.=C2-=0AYou're right, they are too small. qui
te high fuel flow with a 914.=0AGraham=0A=C2-=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A=0AFrom:"nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" =0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:
01=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AOn 31/
07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:=0A--> Europa-List message
posted by: klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com=0A>=C2-=0A>Snip ....=0A.....I was
chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he learned how to
o small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause "cavitation" at the p
umps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side of the pump,are cau
sing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size (restriction of flow)
of the filter, even if they are clean.=0A........ Snip=0A=0AKevin, I think
Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.=C2- =0AA year or so back,
I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914 powered Europa on a ho
t day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the noise, but once safely b
ack on the ground, I checked the filters (all clean). This aircraft was fit
ted with Europa specified Purolator glass shrouded filters that allow you t
o see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power
was increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought was air. My fir
st action was to check the pipework and security of connections - but every
thing seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I t
hen concluded that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.=0A=0A
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and stu
mbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube. Take
a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass venturi.
This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtu
be.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I=0A=0AMy conclusion is that the Purolator filte
r has the correct mesh size to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity i
s too small and creates a pressure drop in the fuel line.=0A=0ANigel=0Ahttp
://www.matro=====================0A
=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Euro
pa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contributi
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
a second alternative: http://www.stevesaircraft.com/gascolator.php
not cheap either tho.
Cheers,
Pete
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:40 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON <
grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
> Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
> small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
>
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* William Daniell
> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
> I plumbed those in ' following the book ' but I see they are probably
not
> the ideal.
> So what=92s the most common solution?
> Will
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *GRAHAM SINGLETON
> *Sent:* 29 October 2012 05:29
> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
> Nigel
> another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
> aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
> more restriction.
> You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk"
> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
>
> On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Snip ....
>
> *.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
> learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
> "cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
> side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
> size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.*
> *........ Snip*
>
> Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
> A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
> powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
> noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
> clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
> shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
> filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to fil
l
> with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the pipework an
d
> security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely
> not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced
> vapour lock and left it at that.
>
> Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
> stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube.
> Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass
> venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
>
> My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
> trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
> pressure drop in the fuel line.
>
> Nigel
>
> *http://www.matro==================
==*
>
> * *
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L="nofollow" target="_blan
k" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
> *
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Vapour lock? Why?
Date: Oct 29, 2012
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
_____
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see they
are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Vapour lock? Why?
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Mmm yes thanks. It would seem to me that the two fuel lines offer an
opportunity to insert redundancy in the fuel filters.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Harrison
Sent: 29 October 2012 08:20
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
_____
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see they
are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Stabalator Flutter
Date: Oct 29, 2012
On Flutter,
We dumb engineers really enjoy collecting testing video.
The Comanche video and others were setups to determine failure modes.
For instance, if you forget to hook up the trim tab or you have
forgotten to check that the bushes are installed in the stab or trim
rod, or the bearing in your Comanche has failed and you didn't note it
on the trim tab preflight that it had 1/4 inch of play.
We just had a twin Cessna (conventional stabilizer and elevator) here in
Plant City that has severe cracking in its trim tab due to poor
maintenance. The owner and inspector did not notice or think it a
problem that the trim tab had play in it and upon investigation, the
bearing in the trim rod had disengaged from the socket and the trim tab
moved 1/4 inch on its own...
Any control surface can flutter so it is best to note how much play is
in the bearings, hinges, quick disconnects etc. in any aircraft that
flies above 120 KIAS.
Pay particular attention to those controls which are not balanced on a
wing, or tail (Rudders are normally not balanced if near vertical in non
aerobatic aircraft.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Carter<mailto:alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stabalator Flutter
>
Wow Bud, that,s pretty scary stuff, have a lot of hours on Twin Coms.
glad i knew nothing about flutter then, what happened to it in the
video.
Well i got the first bit right, slow down, but have not that brutal
tail-plane you mention, only have a foam one!, and yes i do have a hang
up on tail planes maybe its because i can,t see it.
There have been some excellent ideas posted on MOD 73 . how to
elimination play and wear in the Toque tube, and this question is just
an extension of that topic, so hoping for some airman-ship replies also.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385727#385727
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385727#385727>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Working cabin heater
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Photo E-mail View slideshow
|
Download images
Jacques,
I have been building a similar cabin heater for about 6 years.
It is fine until about -10 C. The duct has to be quite well sealed and
since most of the heat comes from the oil cooler, if a thermostat is
installed one cannot expect it to heat as much. In my experience my oil
temps in winter run about 160F or 70C. The air out of the back side of
the cooler is normally just under 100F or about 35C. N12AY is pretty
tight and my air vents seal pretty well so little air rushes into the
cockpit through the inspection holes and center tunnel as I have it all
well sealed. Just the sun shine keeps me in winter clothes fairly
comfortable. If I close off the oil cooler with a plate over it, that
cuts the air flow too much.
Unfortunately, I am in Florida, so it rarely gets super cold here. The
the mono tends to be drafty through the tunnel and is asking too much
from my little heater (basically the same as the Europa Club mod).
My only suggestion for a constant high temp source is to pull the
coolant from the engine using a similar hookup to the carb heat mod, and
use a small oil cooler (or a simple 3/16 inch copper tube coil and fan
in the cockpit to bring up the temp for bitter temps.) Where to put it
becomes a real problem.
I have not been a fan of pulling heat from a muff from the muffler or
exhaust system as it is a Carbon Monoxide problem so I will not
comment.
Sorry I can't help any more.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: ploucandco<mailto:jacques(at)platisource.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Working cabin heater
>
Thanks Ian. I saw this one as well. The goal is to get +15C in the
cabin when the outside air is -20C.
Do you or someone else have positive experience that this system will
provide this +35C difference in temperature?
Sorry to be difficult but I read a few times that such heater will
work well when the engine is running hot. Mine is running cool in
winter.
Jacques
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385943#385943
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385943#385943>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
These photos will be available on SkyDrive for 30 days. To learn more
about SkyDrive, click here<http://g.msn.com/1cl91enus/PMFooter>.
To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN
Photo E-mail, join MSN<http://g.msn.com/0PHenus1/29>.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Just thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder core that is not needed and not started
for sale? Rather than repair mine id like to start again. I have vacuum bagged
mine and bent the flange that the hinges bond too. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Vapour lock? Why?
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Gents,
I have not had the opportunity to have cavitation or problems with fuel
vaporization on my or any of my 914 engine installations.
I have had problems with the pumps pulling air from gascolators in the
Europa. I do not install them for a number of reasons, primarily as the
tank is lower than the gascolator (so the gascolator doesn't trap water,
instead it only can trap large particles (which the tank screen should
do), act as a filter), and should the seal be just a bit loose or
broken, air is sucked into the fuel lines by the pump and in some cases
the pump can not self prime. I have also had loose filters, and other
things as below.
The main problems I have seen are:
The fuel fittings or selector valves which are too restrictive (less
than 1/4 inch ID for the fuel). Avoid items of cheap quality (normally
brass from China).
The Purolator fuel filters are assembled too loose and suck air by the
gasket when the pump is engaged.
Note that under high flow rates over 10 GPH the Purolators do cavitate
the fuel. Not so under normal operations.
The fuel filter is assembled backwards by the owner.
Gascolators installed of dubious quality/or maintained poorly, with
wrench marks and dented cans from excessive force used to install or
remove them. Once the seal is broken, one may not see a leak but prime
is lost, especially at low fuel tank levels.
Owner uses a unique fuel line installation which goes next to the
muffler, then over the top of the engine to the carb on a 912S without
any fire sleeve.
Kinked fuel lines in the central tunnel unnoticed during the build.
Auto filters using cheap paper which restrict fuel flow if wet. Test
Test Test non aviation filters.
Failure to install fire sleeve, instead they use thermosleeve which
holds radiated heat away but has no insulation.
Vaporization also is more common when the lines are routed so as to have
a bend forming a high spot in line, in a hot area of the engine
compartment. This is a problem in the tail dragger Europa as the
highest spot in the fuel system is the top of the engine, so a vapor
bubble from heat can form easily when attempting a hot start.
The 914 has a noticeable return flow and the 912S has an orifice that
allows modest flow and allows the vapor to bleed if the orifice is near
the carbs and not really low in the return line at the tank. The new
912 fuel manifold seems to work well mounted up on the cross over tube
in the trigear.
Fuel pumps normally take care of any heat problems in the fuel as cool
fuel flows quickly through the system. However if the engine is off,
fuel may not flow enough to cool the lines in a 912S that are installed
directly in contact with the top of the engine. The vapor then can
build up in the high spot on top of the hot engine. With the carb bowls
full of fuel, the cool fuel does not flow very fast past the orifice if
it installed very low. Hence the need that the orifice on the return is
high up to clear the vapor.
Some suggestions are:
If one is concerned about flow, two filters in parallel, properly
installed, could solve filter clogging where poor fuel quality is
common.
Install 3/8 lines to slow the flow, but this means less room in tight
spots and more connector step downs and more parts to buy.
Make sure you are assembling the fuel system in accordance with
acceptable methods and standards and or follow the Europa install manual
to the letter. After all, it works, but it is the minimum necessary to
do the job.
Failure to allow for sufficient cooling air in the cowl over the carbs
and fuel lines is a problem also, especially with the 912/912S. The 914
lines are at the rear and if clear of the exhaust and the fuel pump
delivers proper flow, all is well.
Stay away from ethanol laced gasoline as it vaporizes very well and
kills seals.
Be sure the fuel pump is of the proper size and type recommended as the
system is designed for that pump.
Hot start problems in the 914 can be irritating as the intake manifold
is quite warm after shutdown, as are the fuel lines and carbs. The
vapor in the carbs flows into the intake plenum and manifold and leaves
a super rich charge in the plenum which will delay start. Many of us
crank the engine with the fuel pump off or selector off until it hits,
then turn the pump/selector on to keep it running. At higher altitudes
and density altitude conditions, it is much worse.
This is not a cavitation problem but pure vaporization of fuel in the
intake of course.
Glad to confuse the issue.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Tech Support
----- Original Message -----
From: William Daniell<mailto:wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Mmm yes thanks. It would seem to me that the two fuel lines offer an
opportunity to insert redundancy in the fuel filters.
Will
From:
owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Harrison
Sent: 29 October 2012 08:20
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From:
owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is
too small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: William Daniell
>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see
they are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From:
owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean
but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel;
so, more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:
"nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk"
<nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27,
klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com wrote:
klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's
914 powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored
the noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters
(all clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator
glass shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low
RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter
began to fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check
the pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine -
it was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded
that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation
and stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
?v=K_w3gcvA87I>
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size
to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro>=============
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder
Date: Oct 29, 2012
Perhaps a few minutes with your cutoff wheel will correct your problem
with a couple of layers of glass and some straight edges. Cheaper and
frankly faster.
Please send a photo direct to me.
Bud Yerly
Tech Support
www.budyerly(at)msn.com
----- Original Message -----
From: spcialeffects<mailto:spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Rudder
>
Just thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder core that is not needed
and not started for sale? Rather than repair mine id like to start
again. I have vacuum bagged mine and bent the flange that the hinges
bond too. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2012
From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rudder
I have a rudder ready laid up with the hinges attached. It has a cutout for
Grahams Rudder mod. But has the bottom corner missing. Can be fixed easily
. ( I used it to fix my original) Contact me off list if you are interested
=0A-=0A=0A=0A====================
=0A=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A===============
======0A=0AFrom: spcialeffects <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>=0ATo: euro
pa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 19:58=0ASubject: Eu
spcialeffects(at)aol.com>=0A=0AJust thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder cor
e that is not needed and not started for sale? Rather than repair mine id l
ike to start again. I have vacuum bagged mine and bent the flange that the
hinges bond too. Thanks=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahtt
p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2012
Subject: The Aero 2013 Friedrichshafen Europa Gathering #2 is approaching.
From: stephan cassel <stephan.cassel(at)gmail.com>
Hi Europa Flyers and Builders,
The Aero 2013 Friedrichshafen Europa Gathering #2 is approaching very fast.
This time we will have acceptable weather. That is for sure.
You will find detailed information here: http://aero2013.scassel.se
It would be smashing if Europa flyers/builders from all parts of Europe
could participate.
Hope to see you at Friedrichshafen 2013.
Best regards
Stephan
LN-STE
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Properties for sale near you, Investment Opportunity
From: John Heykoop <johndheykoop(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 31, 2012
Hello,
Kindly check out this new properties close to you, VIEW PROPERTIES for secu
re access and more Information.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's through solely
through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are
possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
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To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site:
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I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you for your support!
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Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Return Line
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Nov 01, 2012
While trying to understand our recent 914 power problems, we talked to Rob Seaton
at Rotech.
He suggested we measure how much pressure is required to return the fuel to the
tank (from regulator). Remove return hose from top of regulator, plug one side
of banjo fitting and blow into other (dont ingest fuel!). it should be very
easy (max is 1.5 PSI pressure loss with both pumps on: 914 installation manual
sec 14.3)
We found with the fuel tank full the pressure required was more than we could easily
blow. With the tank half empty not much pressure was required. Our system
is per Europa with the return at the bottom of the tank. Calculations show
the pressure of the column of fuel in a full tank (15 inches of fuel) is about
.4 psi which is certainly less than 1.5 psi.
The Europa setup has worked OK for over 400 hours, but perhaps it would be better
to return the fuel to the top of the tank. Opinions?
Jim & Heather
N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386515#386515
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>
Subject: 912iS paper
(copied from RotaxEngines list)
Those interested in the design of the 912iS may want to buy SAE paper nr
2012-32-0049.
By 3 Rotax engineers and recently presented at an SAE conference.
It costs $23 and can only be printed, during 24 hours, not saved.
Some of the figures need to be printed separately to make some very
small print readable (primitive but working procedure: zoom to maximise
on screen, copy screen to clipboard, paste into picture viewer like
Irfanview, crop in picture viewer and print/save).
I found it interesting. A lot of questions were answered, quite a view
remain.
Jan de Jong
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2012
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Return Line
=0A=0AJim=0AI have always put the fuel return into the top of the tank, (I
used a redesigned tank fitting that incorporated the breather connection (3
/8 aluminum)=0Afuel return and sight gauge return connection. Much less bac
k pressure at the top of the tank and the (maybe hot from the engine driven
pump)=0Athen mixes with the main bulk of the tank contents before going ba
CK TO THE ENGINE. sorry kaps lok again!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A__________________
______________=0A From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>=0ATo: europa-list@m
atronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, 1 November 2012, 19:45=0ASubject: Europa-Li
uropa" =0A=0AWhile trying to understand our recent 914 p
ower problems, we talked to Rob Seaton at Rotech.=C2- =0A=0AHe suggested
we measure how much pressure is required to return the fuel to the tank (fr
om regulator). Remove return hose from top of regulator, plug one side of b
anjo fitting and blow into other (don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t ingest fuel!
). it should be very easy (max is 1.5 PSI pressure loss with both pumps on:
=0A 914 installation manual sec 14.3) =0A=0AWe found with the fuel tank ful
l the pressure required was more than we could easily blow.=C2- With the
tank half empty not much pressure was required.=C2- Our system is per Eur
opa with the return at the bottom of the tank.=C2- Calculations show the
pressure of the column of fuel in a full tank (15 inches of fuel) is about
.4 psi which is certainly less than 1.5 psi. =0A=0AThe Europa setup has wor
ked OK for over 400 hours, but perhaps it would be better to return the fue
l to the top of the tank.=C2- Opinions?=0A=0AJim & Heather=0AN241BW=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Return Line
Date: Nov 02, 2012
Jim,
I have my 914 fuel return set up as Graham describes, and no problems. I hav
e never checked the return line pressure.
What problem are you experiencing?
Kevin
On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:32 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Jim
> I have always put the fuel return into the top of the tank, (I used a rede
signed tank fitting that incorporated the breather connection (3/8 aluminum)
> fuel return and sight gauge return connection. Much less back pressure at t
he top of the tank and the (maybe hot from the engine driven pump)
> then mixes with the main bulk of the tank contents before going baCK TO TH
E ENGINE. sorry kaps lok again!
> Graham
>
> From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2012, 19:45
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Return Line
>
>
> While trying to understand our recent 914 power problems, we talked to Rob
Seaton at Rotech.
>
> He suggested we measure how much pressure is required to return the fuel t
o the tank (from regulator). Remove return hose from top of regulator, plug o
ne side of banjo fitting and blow into other (don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t i
ngest fuel!). it should be very easy (max is 1.5 PSI pressure loss with both
pumps on: 914 installation manual sec 14.3)
>
> We found with the fuel tank full the pressure required was more than we co
uld easily blow. With the tank half empty not much pressure was required. O
ur system is per Europa with the return at the bottom of the tank. Calculat
ions show the pressure of the column of fuel in a full tank (15 inches of fu
el) is about .4 psi which is certainly less than 1.5 psi.
>
> The Europa setup has worked OK for over 400 hours, but perhaps it would be
better to return the fuel to the top of the tank. Opinions?
>
> Jim & Heather
> N241BW
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronicsease Support ref="http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adm
in. --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronic
s.com
> _=============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Subject: Re: 912iS paper
Date: Nov 02, 2012
Any one out there having obtained the paper and willing to share it with th
e EUROPA group?
Christoph Both
Wolfville Nova Scotia
Canada
EUROPA #223
From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl<mailto:jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>>
ropa-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, 1 November, 2012 8:54 PM
ist(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Europa-List: 912iS paper
(copied from RotaxEngines list)
Those interested in the design of the 912iS may want to buy SAE paper nr 20
12-32-0049.
By 3 Rotax engineers and recently presented at an SAE conference.
It costs $23 and can only be printed, during 24 hours, not saved.
Some of the figures need to be printed separately to make some very small p
rint readable (primitive but working procedure: zoom to maximise on screen,
copy screen to clipboard, paste into picture viewer like Irfanview, crop i
n picture viewer and print/save).
I found it interesting. A lot of questions were answered, quite a view rema
in.
Jan de Jong
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Return Line
From: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsberg(at)terra.com.br>
Date: Nov 02, 2012
I would expect return pressure to depend on the height to which it is pushed
, ie the height of the surface or opening.
Exit to top of tank will provide equal (in average higher) back pressure tha
n if return is at the bottom, all other parameters being equal...
Alex, kit 529
Enviado via iPhone
Em 01/11/2012, =C3-s 23:32, GRAHAM SINGLETON escreveu:
> Jim
> I have always put the fuel return into the top of the tank, (I used a rede
signed tank fitting that incorporated the breather connection (3/8 aluminum)
> fuel return and sight gauge return connection. Much less back pressure at t
he top of the tank and the (maybe hot from the engine driven pump)
> then mixes with the main bulk of the tank contents before going baCK TO TH
E ENGINE. sorry kaps lok again!
> Graham
>
> From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2012, 19:45
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Return Line
>
>
> While trying to understand our recent 914 power problems, we talked to Rob
Seaton at Rotech.
>
> He suggested we measure how much pressure is required to return the fuel t
o the tank (from regulator). Remove return hose from top of regulator, plug o
ne side of banjo fitting and blow into other (don=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t i
ngest fuel!). it should be very easy (max is 1.5 PSI pressure loss with bot
h pumps on: 914 installation manual sec 14.3)
>
> We found with the fuel tank full the pressure required was more than we co
uld easily blow. With the tank half empty not much pressure was required. O
ur system is per Europa with the return at the bottom of the tank. Calculat
ions show the pressure of the column of fuel in a full tank (15 inches of fu
el) is about .4 psi which is certainly less than 1.5 psi.
>
> The Europa setup has worked OK for over 400 hours, but perhaps it would be
better to return the fuel to the top of the tank. Opinions?
>
> Jim & Heather
> N241BW
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronicsease Support ref="http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adm
in. --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronic
s.com
> _=============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Fuel Return Line
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Nov 03, 2012
Alex,
In my opinion it depends on what fluid you are returning. You are right if 100
per cent liquid fuel is returned. Now if 100 percent vapor is returned, returning
to the top of the fuel tank will significantly reduce the back pressure. Because
one of the most important function of the return line is to allow vapor
to escape the fuel system, therefore preventing potential vapor lock, I believe
returning to the top of the tank is a better option.
Remi Guerner
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386581#386581
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Fuel Return Line
From: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsberg(at)terra.com.br>
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Remi, I am not disputing whether or not one or the other location is best, it was
only to state a fact of physics.
And then I wonder if a varying pressure in the return line can affect things like
mixture control?
Air bubbles I would expect to be rare if not non existent, provided return flow
is sufficient.
Alex, kit 529
Enviado via iPhone
Em 03/11/2012, s 08:36, "Remi Guerner" escreveu:
>
> Alex,
> In my opinion it depends on what fluid you are returning. You are right if 100
per cent liquid fuel is returned. Now if 100 percent vapor is returned, returning
to the top of the fuel tank will significantly reduce the back pressure.
Because one of the most important function of the return line is to allow vapor
to escape the fuel system, therefore preventing potential vapor lock, I believe
returning to the top of the tank is a better option.
> Remi Guerner
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386581#386581
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Reserve Fuel
Date: Nov 04, 2012
<<..But it worth checking that the fuel return is happening.>>
Yes, that should be on the annual checklist. Alternately, if you have a
fuel
pressure sensor fitted the action of the return can be checked at every
shut
down, by watching fuel pressure return quickly back to zero. Without the
return, the pressure would be locked-in to the fuel lines (unless the
fuel
pump valve and/or float valves leak!).
Duncan McF.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
roddyeuropa(at)aol.com
Sent: 25 October 2012 09:55
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Reserve Fuel
Hi Alan
I'd add a couple of things - you have the fuel drain mod installed which
is
good. But be aware that you need to drain more fuel than a normal fuel
drain
to clear the fuel in the lines between the drain and the tank. I drain
about
'half jam jar' each side.
Also, the fuel return from the engine should be feeding into the
reserves
side so it should refresh the fuel. But if fueling the plane doesn't get
to
the bottom of the tank to stir things up, the return flow certainly
won't.
But it worth checking that the fuel return is happening.
Regards
Roddy Kesterton
G-IKRK
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Sent: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 8:56
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Reserve Fuel
Hi Tim.
NZ a beautiful county i had a holiday there.
I have done my time on Chipmunks, My Europa is a Mono to Tri Conversion
so maybe better! well a lot easier.
The Fuel/Tables were done with the aircraft just in its level position
on
level
ground, a couple of litres either way i am not bothering about as if i
was
down
to 15 litres i would be quit worried.
Glad you use the reserve fuel, just my choice taxing in on reserve,
I like your idea of the extended lever, is it guarded or recessed, can
you
give
some more on how to do it.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385966#385966
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [Spam] [Spam] Re: Fuel Return Line
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Alex,
Varying pressure in the return line may affect the fuel pressure to the carbs,
but as long as this fuel pressure stays within the limits specified by Rotax,
it should not affect the mixture.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386716#386716
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Return Line
Date: Nov 04, 2012
Jim,
Never had a problem with return pressure as rigged. The Rotax manual
says it is supposed to be a minimum of back pressure as you indicated.
If you restrict the return pressure, you actually overpressurize the
fuel system. Those with gauges that read raw fuel pressure can test
this easily, by just clamping the return line just slightly with the
engine off and not the rapid rise in pressure.
You are very wise to note that the column pressure is only about 1/2
psi. in the full tank. I cannot blow more than 1.5 PSI when checking
against my fuel direct reading manual gauge. Check for kinks and
plugged vents also.
Off until Friday.
Hope you find out what the matter is. It must be something simple, as
it is hard to find.
Regards
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: h&jeuropa<mailto:butcher43(at)att.net>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 2:45 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Return Line
>
While trying to understand our recent 914 power problems, we talked to
Rob Seaton at Rotech.
He suggested we measure how much pressure is required to return the
fuel to the tank (from regulator). Remove return hose from top of
regulator, plug one side of banjo fitting and blow into other (don?Tt
ingest fuel!). it should be very easy (max is 1.5 PSI pressure loss with
both pumps on: 914 installation manual sec 14.3)
We found with the fuel tank full the pressure required was more than
we could easily blow. With the tank half empty not much pressure was
required. Our system is per Europa with the return at the bottom of the
tank. Calculations show the pressure of the column of fuel in a full
tank (15 inches of fuel) is about .4 psi which is certainly less than
1.5 psi.
The Europa setup has worked OK for over 400 hours, but perhaps it
would be better to return the fuel to the top of the tank. Opinions?
Jim & Heather
N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386515#386515
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386515#386515>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Make sure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate
the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using
your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sun Shades
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Nov 05, 2012
In the summer the big canopy of the Europa really works as a greenhouse. Until
now we have used sunshades purchased at Target and intended to reduce the heat
in a car but they are not a convenient size or shape and the suction cups don't
work well. At Rough River Troy & Donna Maynor had Aero Shield sun shades
fitted to their Europa. We purchased a pair prior to our recent trip to Arizona.
Boy are they great! They provide good shade, the suction cups work well
and are easy to release and the size is big enough to reduce the heat but small
enough that we could position the shade where it was most effective, even on
the front windscreen to block the sun in our eyes.
We purchased 9" x 16" Aero Shields, Aircraft Spruce Part Number 13-09664. The
ones Troy and Donna have are the same width but longer.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386891#386891
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2012
From: Glenn Rainey <nimbusaviation(at)YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Fuel hose size spec with FloScan / 912
We are taking advantage of extended down-time to swap out, and fire-sleeve, all
the forward fuel hose per 5 year recommendation. I need to check that we have
the correct hose size spec' as I cannot locate the latest published layout on-line.
As we found it, 8mm ID hose runs to the mechanical pump then back to the FloScan
and downstream of it to the first (s/b) Carb Tee. Beyond that, 6mm hose. We
have build and update paperwork to show this spec. However, offering up 8mm hose
to the pump outlet fitting it is a worryingly loose fit until the clamp is
tightened.
Are we happy with this?
Glenn Rainey / Martin Burns
Classic 912 M/W
Cumbernauld
EGPG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com>
Subject: Sun Shades
Date: Nov 05, 2012
Jim=2C
I just wanted to thank you for giving details about the sunshades. I have t
rouble reading the awful LCD displays in bright sunlight=2C especially the
Garmin GPS. And for giving details about the product source.We often get re
ports about wonderful mods but no information whatsoever about how we might
incorporate them ourselves.
Karl
> Subject: Europa-List: Sun Shades
> From: butcher43(at)att.net
> Date: Mon=2C 5 Nov 2012 05:53:58 -0800
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> In the summer the big canopy of the Europa really works as a greenhouse.
Until now we have used sunshades purchased at Target and intended to reduc
e the heat in a car but they are not a convenient size or shape and the suc
tion cups don't work well. At Rough River Troy & Donna Maynor had Aero Shi
eld sun shades fitted to their Europa. We purchased a pair prior to our re
cent trip to Arizona. Boy are they great! They provide good shade=2C the
suction cups work well and are easy to release and the size is big enough
to reduce the heat but small enough that we could position the shade where
it was most effective=2C even on the front windscreen to block the sun in o
ur eyes.
>
> We purchased 9" x 16" Aero Shields=2C Aircraft Spruce Part Number 13-0966
4. The ones Troy and Donna have are the same width but longer.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386891#386891
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: A Message From AeroElectric's Bob Nuckolls...
Dear Listers,
The well known Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric posted a great message Monday on
the AeroElectric-List regarding the Matronics Lists and the importance of supporting
the operation during the Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to read Bob's
commentary below, reposted to the other Matronics Lists with his permission...
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 08:58:41 -0600
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Please Make A Contribution Today!
At 02:14 AM 11/5/2012, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message
> acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
> support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that
> took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
>
I will add my voice to this suggestion. It's
easy to enjoy the benefits of what's available to us
off-the-shelves at the corner mega-marts. It's
seldom that we give pause to learn and understand the
processes and tools that made it possible to reach out
and select from dozens of options.
This, and all civil societies, runs on talent, energy
and mobility. Mobility exploited by thousands of hands,
machines and transportation that figure into the
'infrastructure' that puts the boxes of Wheaties and
Pop Tarts on the shelves.
See "I pencil" http://tinyurl.com/36xkhq
Any break in that chain of time, talent and resources
at least interrupts if not totally halts flow of
that benefit. Matt's room full of byte-thrashers is
like the natural gas pumping station a few miles from
my house. If those pumps stop, who ever is expecting
the furnace to come on at the other end of the pipe
is at risk for reduced service and/or higher costs
for that service.
Matt's yearly endeavor to keep his pumps running is
a trivial burden on the members of the Lists
but of incalculable value to those who participate
on them. No donation is too small.
We go to a fly-in a willingly chuck a few bucks into
the coffee can at the drinks and donuts table, let's
chuck a few bucks into Matt's coffee can too. 50,000
pounds of value doesn't get to the shelves on time
if one 18-wheeler runs out of gas. The T-bytes of
data flow we all enjoy don't get from your keyboard
to the screens of others unless Matt pays the light
bill and strokes the machines to keep them happy.
No, $5 won't get you a free copy of the 'Connection
or a fuel sampler but it will go toward the assurance
that logging onto your favorite List will open
doors that you would be sorely missed should you find
that hitting the return key doesn't produce the
expected response.
$5 from every List customer on Matt's system will
go a very long way to keeping the byte-pumps running.
$More$ will go a long way to upgrading the size
and quality of the machines as the old ones get
long in the tooth. No matter what size of donation
you choose . . . please do it now . . .
Bob . . .
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod 73
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2012
Hello All
No flutter here, just had to post this, amazing little aeroplane same combat bomb
payload as B17. and basically a home build by many.
hope you like it,
alan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8&feature=player_embedded
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387128#387128
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined
with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site
up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics
Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are
so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have
it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2012
Subject: Mod parts availability
From: Tyler J <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>
I am in the process of possibly acquiring a Europa Classic kit that is
about 60% complete. The original builder purchased the kit in 1997 and
stopped working on it in 2007 due to health reasons. In reference to the
Mandatory Mods, if one isn't completed, are the parts still available and
in stock at the factory? For example, mandatory Mod 74 (rear wing pin
update) has not been completed, nor has the original pin been
installed, and I just wanted to make sure that I could still get the
necessary parts to accomplish the mod. The website shows a price for Mod
52 (gross weight increase) which includes Mod 74, but again is it in stock
and available? Also, for the same reasons, I am concerned about parts
availability for Mod 70 (mass balance arm).
I sent an e-mail to the factory two days ago to the
enquiries@europa-aircraft.com, but received no response. I also tried
calling our USA representative, but no luck so far. So, I thought I would
inquire to this group of esteemed buillders/owners on Matronics. Thank you
in advance.
TJ
USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun Shades
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 08, 2012
Hi All,
Here is a link to the products we're talking about, in addition to Aircraft Spruce.
I think the ones we have are 9 or 10 x 22 inches long. I'll check next time
at the airport. I am sorry Jim and Heather I didn't tell you sooner but I think
you ordered as soon as you got home. The website leaves a lot to be desired
as far as pictures. And I didn't know it was called Pilot Armour also. Study
closely or call them and tell them what you want. I got the copper colored stuff
that you use in flight, not the thick silver stuff you use while you're parked.
Troy
http://www.aero-shields.com/index.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387333#387333
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions from Rough River
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 08, 2012
Hi All,
Here is some follow up information that I will pass along for those of you interested.
The sun screens are "Aero Shields or Pilot Armour. Same company? Mine are 9 or
10 inches by 22 inches. Here's a link:
http://www.aero-shields.com/index.html
The weather stripping I used, which allows the doors to shut much easier but seal
very well, is purchased at McMaster-Carr and the catalog number is: 12335A44.
Hope this helps.
Troy Maynor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387334#387334
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 09, 2012
At what stage during the takeoff roll do you see full boost please?
Another way of putting it ....... How long after the throttle is at 115% do you
see full boost?
Thanks in anticipation
Kingsley
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2012
From: bill <bill.sue(at)orcon.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Kingsley,
I will time it in the morning and tell you.
Cheers
XSMono 914 Airmaster
1020hrs
Sue and Bill Sisley
On 9/11/2012 5:20 p.m., Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
> At what stage during the takeoff roll do you see full boost please?
>
> Another way of putting it ....... How long after the throttle is at 115% do you
see full boost?
>
> Thanks in anticipation
>
> Kingsley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Kingsley Hurst a crit :
>
> At what stage during the takeoff roll do you see full boost please?
>
> Another way of putting it ....... How long after the throttle is at 115% do you
see full boost?
>
>
Hi Kingsley,
I'd say about 2 to 3 seconds. We do not bang the throttle, but rather
advance it steadily in 2 seconds.
Takeoff takes place in about 10 seconds.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2012
From: bill <bill.sue(at)orcon.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Kingsley,
Two New Zealand 914 drivers checked this for you today and we both got
the same result at 5 seconds.
Regards from across the Tasman.
Bill
MonoXS 914 Airmaster.
Sue and Bill Sisley
On 10/11/2012 3:38 p.m., Gilles Thesee wrote:
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Kingsley Hurst a crit :
>>
>>
>> At what stage during the takeoff roll do you see full boost please?
>>
>> Another way of putting it ....... How long after the throttle is at
>> 115% do you see full boost?
>>
>
> Hi Kingsley,
>
> I'd say about 2 to 3 seconds. We do not bang the throttle, but rather
> advance it steadily in 2 seconds.
> Takeoff takes place in about 10 seconds.
>
> Best regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 10, 2012
Bob, Gilles and Bill
Many thanks for your respective inputs.
On takeoff I sometimes don't see full boost until I'm well and truly airborne.
(Not that I watch it every time). I have always suspected that the boost on our
aircraft has been a bit slow to rise.
The waste gate cycles freely, I see 34" MAP at 100% throttle position, I'm getting
5700 RPM on less than full boost and the turbo spins freely.
Now that you have answered my question and I know what to expect, I shall read
up on the manual.
If anybody has any ideas what can cause this I am receptive to any suggestions.
Thanks again fellows.
Kingsley
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tri-gear trailer
From: "g-fizy" <jim.davis1(at)me.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2012
hi has any one have a tri-gear trailer is could hire-borrow.I wish to move my tri-gear
from thruxton EGHO to my unit in andover
thanks jim davis
--------
owner g-fizy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387499#387499
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mono Wheel Inner Tube
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Nov 10, 2012
Good news for US monowheel owners. The inner tube with a 90 degree valve stem has been difficult to locate - Wicks Aircraft Supply has had a Chinese tube available for awhile but no tire. Desser Tire (www.desser.com) now has a suitable tube available as well as tires. The part number for the tube is TU 700/800-6 AM and the part number for a Airhawk tire is 700-6 6 PLY AH. The tube appears to be high quality.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387503#387503
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mod parts availability
From: Tyler <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2012
I would like to thank everyone that responded. Europa Factory did e-mail an
d indicate parts availability. Bud Yerly, from Custom Flight Creations, con
tacted me and gave me a lot of great info. Ian Rickard, from Club Europa, a
lso e-mailed and gave great info. Thank you to all.
On Nov 8, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Tyler J wrote:
> I am in the process of possibly acquiring a Europa Classic kit that is abo
ut 60% complete. The original builder purchased the kit in 1997 and stopped
working on it in 2007 due to health reasons. In reference to the Mandatory
Mods, if one isn't completed, are the parts still available and in stock at
the factory? For example, mandatory Mod 74 (rear wing pin update) has not b
een completed, nor has the original pin been installed, and I just wanted to
make sure that I could still get the necessary parts to accomplish the mod.
The website shows a price for Mod 52 (gross weight increase) which include
s Mod 74, but again is it in stock and available? Also, for the same reason
s, I am concerned about parts availability for Mod 70 (mass balance arm).
>
> I sent an e-mail to the factory two days ago to the enquiries@europa-aircr
aft.com, but received no response. I also tried calling our USA representat
ive, but no luck so far. So, I thought I would inquire to this group of est
eemed buillders/owners on Matronics. Thank you in advance.
>
> TJ
> USA
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List.
It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
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archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets
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But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
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It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List
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List Contribution Web Site:
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or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
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581 Jeannie Way
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Kingsley,
It seems your wastegate takes more time than normal to move to its position. This
may be caused by some undesirable friction in the system. I would first investigate
this possible cause. I suggest you disconnect the waste gate bowden cable
at both ends and pull it back and forth. Move the waste gate lever back and
forth. Both should move easily. If they dont, some cleaning and lubrication
should solve the problem.
Please let us know your findings. Good luck.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387667#387667
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
As the other New Zealand 914 user that Bill refers to I add a little advice that
may help.
You state you are only seeing 34 ins, that is what you get when the TCU is not
working. How do I know, I took off the other day with the TCU switched off and
noted that I only pulled about 33 in manifold but was still getting full rpm,
5780 in my case.
This makes sense and though I do not suggest taking off with the TCU switched off
it can be tried and would be a good pointer to see if your TCU is working.
That is apart from the usual checks to see if the servo is cycling.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387706#387706
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Peter,
I eventually get 38" at 115% throttle setting. I get 34" at 100% throttle on the
climb and it maintains 34" to 12,000 ft so I assume the TCU must be working.
The TCU cycles perfectly on turn on.
Having said that, I can certainly try a T/O with the TCU turned off to observe
what happens.
I need to have a fly behind another 914 in case my problem is only imaginary.
Thank you for your help.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 13/11/2012, at 6:30 AM, "pestar" wrote:
>
> As the other New Zealand 914 user that Bill refers to I add a little advice that
may help.
>
> You state you are only seeing 34 ins, that is what you get when the TCU is not
working. How do I know, I took off the other day with the TCU switched off
and noted that I only pulled about 33 in manifold but was still getting full rpm,
5780 in my case.
>
> This makes sense and though I do not suggest taking off with the TCU switched
off it can be tried and would be a good pointer to see if your TCU is working.
That is apart from the usual checks to see if the servo is cycling.
>
> Cheers Peter
>
> --------
> Peter Armstrong
> Auckland, New Zealand
> DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387706#387706
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Remi,
Observing the waste gate lever and cable during the TCU test, it all appears to
be nice and free. Notwithstanding, I shall check the cable as you describe.
Thank you for taking the time to assist.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 12/11/2012, at 6:34 PM, "Remi Guerner" wrote:
>
> Kingsley,
> It seems your wastegate takes more time than normal to move to its position.
This may be caused by some undesirable friction in the system. I would first investigate
this possible cause. I suggest you disconnect the waste gate bowden
cable at both ends and pull it back and forth. Move the waste gate lever back
and forth. Both should move easily. If they dont, some cleaning and lubrication
should solve the problem.
> Please let us know your findings. Good luck.
> Remi
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387667#387667
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry Stout" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Date: Nov 12, 2012
Not sure how you got 33 ins MP without turbo boost. Nominal ambient
pressure at sea level is 29.92 ins. You need turbo boost to achieve
something higher.
Garry Stout
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pestar
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:31 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for 914 users
As the other New Zealand 914 user that Bill refers to I add a little advice
that may help.
You state you are only seeing 34 ins, that is what you get when the TCU is
not working. How do I know, I took off the other day with the TCU switched
off and noted that I only pulled about 33 in manifold but was still getting
full rpm, 5780 in my case.
This makes sense and though I do not suggest taking off with the TCU
switched off it can be tried and would be a good pointer to see if your TCU
is working. That is apart from the usual checks to see if the servo is
cycling.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387706#387706
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2012
It is because I live in the Southern Hemisphere and do not get impacted by Northern
Hemisphere FUD. (':D')
Seriously I questioned that as well as what you say is correct however that is
what my manifold pressure was reading on my EFIS.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387738#387738
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Gary,
On the 914, even with the waste gate fully open, not all of the exhaust gas bypasses
the turbo hence there is still some boost. According to the manual, with
a fully open waste gate, the engine will produce 70 Kw (approx 93 HP) instead
of the 80 HP the same engine would produce if the turbo charger was removed.
Regards
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 13/11/2012, at 10:28 AM, "Garry Stout" wrote:
>
> Not sure how you got 33 ins MP without turbo boost. Nominal ambient
> pressure at sea level is 29.92 ins. You need turbo boost to achieve
> something higher.
>
> Garry Stout
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pestar
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:31 PM
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for 914 users
>
>
> As the other New Zealand 914 user that Bill refers to I add a little advice
> that may help.
>
> You state you are only seeing 34 ins, that is what you get when the TCU is
> not working. How do I know, I took off the other day with the TCU switched
> off and noted that I only pulled about 33 in manifold but was still getting
> full rpm, 5780 in my case.
>
> This makes sense and though I do not suggest taking off with the TCU
> switched off it can be tried and would be a good pointer to see if your TCU
> is working. That is apart from the usual checks to see if the servo is
> cycling.
>
> Cheers Peter
>
> --------
> Peter Armstrong
> Auckland, New Zealand
> DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387706#387706
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: "conrad" <conrad(at)conairsports.co.uk>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
*Warning*
Do not attempt to take off with the TCU disabled. If the wastegate is fully closed
when the TCU is powered down you will end up over boosting your engine with
the possibility of twisting a crankshaft or burning a piston
kingsnjan(at)westnet.com. wrote:
> Peter,
>
> Having said that, I can certainly try a T/O with the TCU turned off to observe
what happens.
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387748#387748
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Conrad,
Thank you very much for the sage advice. Just thinking....... I don't really need
to know what happens!
Cheers
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 13/11/2012, at 6:32 PM, "conrad" wrote:
>
> *Warning*
> Do not attempt to take off with the TCU disabled. If the wastegate is fully closed
when the TCU is powered down you will end up over boosting your engine with
the possibility of twisting a crankshaft or burning a piston
>
>
>
> kingsnjan(at)westnet.com. wrote:
>> Peter,
>>
>> Having said that, I can certainly try a T/O with the TCU turned off to observe
what happens.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387748#387748
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Kingsley Hurst a crit :
>
> Conrad,
>
> Thank you very much for the sage advice. Just thinking....... I don't really
need to know what happens!
>
Kingsley,
Just to make sure. Have you checked that the throttle cables do respond
correctly to the throttle lever movements ?
IIRC, there have been some instances of cables buckling instead of
sliding in their outer cases when one relies only on springs to open the
butterflies in the carburettors.
To prevent this situation, our airplanes are equipped with solid piano
wire 'cables' providing some push-pull action. The carb springs are just
there for peace of mind.
FWIW,
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rotax Tacho verses digital
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Interesting that compared to my new digital tacho that controls the VP prop, the
rotax tacho over-reads by around 150rpm. Id trust the digital rather than the
needle but I wondered if anyone else has found the same?
while mentioning needles - my flight sunday took me past a couple.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387771#387771
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01045neddles_iow_196.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Graeme,
Beautiful picture!
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:05 PM, graeme bird wrote:
Interesting that compared to my new digital tacho that controls the VP prop, the
rotax tacho over-reads by around 150rpm. Id trust the digital rather than the
needle but I wondered if anyone else has found the same?
while mentioning needles - my flight sunday took me past a couple.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387771#387771
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01045neddles_iow_196.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info>
Subject: rotax Tacho verses digital
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Hi Graeme
Has the Rotax tacho been calibrated? If not they are often inaccurate. Mine
certainly was.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird
Sent: 13 November 2012 19:05
Subject: Europa-List: rotax Tacho verses digital
Interesting that compared to my new digital tacho that controls the VP prop,
the rotax tacho over-reads by around 150rpm. Id trust the digital rather
than the needle but I wondered if anyone else has found the same?
while mentioning needles - my flight sunday took me past a couple.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387771#387771
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01045neddles_iow_196.jpg
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
On 11/13/2012 08:05 PM, graeme bird wrote:
> Interesting that compared to my new digital tacho that controls the
> VP prop, the rotax tacho over-reads by around 150rpm. Id trust the
> digital rather than the needle but I wondered if anyone else has
> found the same?
As far as I know it can be somewhat tricky to connect two tacho's at the
same time. It is a weird interface, nor digital nor analogue. You can't
trust either of them. If you really want to know, you'd better check the
rpm against a seperate rev counter on the prop and recalculate this to
engine RPM and see if it matches with any of your gauges.
> while mentioning needles - my flight sunday took me past a couple.
Very nice! I presume this was in the UK? Is this near land's end?
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
From: "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2012
Hi,
The Rotax tacho really cannot be trusted. Many years ago, one of my customers told
me that when he fitted a CSC-1/P constant speed controller, it showed 600
RPM more than the Rotax tacho! So when the customer thought he was using around
5700 RPM on takeoff he had actually been using 6300 every time. Somewhat ironic
that installing the CS controller actually reduced his takeoff performance
by about 10% (but hopefully prolonged the life of his 912S).
The Rotax tacho has a little pot in it you can twiddle to adjust the displayed
RPM but it's impossible to get at when the thing is in situ. Also, if memory serves
me right, Rotax decreed that it should be calibrated something like every
50 hours!
Cheers,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387781#387781
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
Date: Nov 13, 2012
My experience would show as with Mark that the Rotax RPM gauges are not to
be trusted. My original was some 200rpm under reading when new. Europa re
calibrated it but some 2 years later it had gone way out again. I rely on
the digital readout from my EIS from Grand Rapids.
Pete Jeffers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Burton
Sent: 13 November 2012 21:02
Subject: Europa-List: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
Hi,
The Rotax tacho really cannot be trusted. Many years ago, one of my
customers told me that when he fitted a CSC-1/P constant speed controller,
it showed 600 RPM more than the Rotax tacho! So when the customer thought he
was using around 5700 RPM on takeoff he had actually been using 6300 every
time. Somewhat ironic that installing the CS controller actually reduced his
takeoff performance by about 10% (but hopefully prolonged the life of his
912S).
The Rotax tacho has a little pot in it you can twiddle to adjust the
displayed RPM but it's impossible to get at when the thing is in situ. Also,
if memory serves me right, Rotax decreed that it should be calibrated
something like every 50 hours!
Cheers,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387781#387781
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 14, 2012
Gilles,
Thank you again. Yes the levers on the carbs move in unison no matter how fast
the throttle lever is advanced. The whole operation is very smooth and fluent.
I'm no expert on any of this stuff I can assure you but I would expect the engine
not to run smoothly if a throttle cable was to lag the throttle movement.
The engine runs like a sewing machine and my only observation is that the MAP seems
slower to rise than expected be it true or imaginary! Hence my dilemma.
Best regards
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 13/11/2012, at 9:00 PM, Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
>
> Kingsley Hurst a crit :!
>>
>
> Kingsley,
>
> Just to make sure. Have you checked that the throttle cables do respond correctly
to the throttle lever movements ?
> IIRC, there have been some instances of cables buckling instead of sliding in
their outer cases when one relies only on springs to open the butterflies in
the carburettors.
>
> To prevent this situation, our airplanes are equipped with solid piano wire 'cables'
providing some push-pull action. The carb springs are just there for peace
of mind.
>
> FWIW,
> Best regards,
> --
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
Kingsley Hurst a crit :
> my only observation is that the MAP seems slower to rise than expected be it
true or imaginary! Hence my dilemma.
>
What about the MAP lines, water trap, restriction, etc. ?
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 14, 2012
Thanks for the replies, and compliments on my photo.
The Needles are at the western end of the Isle of White about halfway along the
UK south coast.
One might see them when crossing from Cherbourg.
New compact camera, 20 Mpixels and I am staggered at the difference. I will add
a zoom on portsmouth so you can see if interested.
considering its hand held through the perspex.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387924#387924
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/portsmouthportion_1_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rotax Tacho verses digital
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 14, 2012
sorry cant seem to attach two pics on one post, so here is the original shot
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387925#387925
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01100portsmouth_427.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tri-gear trailer
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Nov 15, 2012
Hi,
I don't have a dedicated Europa trailer but l have a large flatbed trailer with
ramp and hand winch used by the builder of my Europa to move it around. The
trouble is l am based in Essex, the trailer is near Stansted Airport. You are
welcome to use it if you get really stuck.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387967#387967
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy left wing
From: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 15, 2012
I have finally figured out my overheating problem with the Jabiru engine. Mostly
it is the MGL EMS unit telling me that the engine is 36 C hotter than it really
is.
I have now been able to fly for longer times and distance and one of the first
things that got my attention is the heavy left wing. The aileron tip is down
about 1 to 1 1/2 inches is straight and level flight. The right is up about 1/4
to 1/2" . I had been thinking since I weight in at 250 pounds that was the
cause, but today I added 150 pounds to the PAX seat, Sand Bags!. It helped,
but not my much.
Bud had sent a picture of adding a pencil to the bottom of the aileron. This bought
the aileron up, but the turning increased.
I'm thinking that I don't have enough lift on this wing or too much on the right
wing.
I remember reading a couple of months ago about making the flap stay down by placing
a block on the up side of the slot.
Is this really a good way to add lift to this wing?
Or is there a better way? I remember when I set the Angle of Incidence and even
took pictures of both sides.
What do I do now?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388012#388012
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: heavy left wing
Date: Nov 16, 2012
Hi! Irrespective of loading it is IMHO that you should start from a point of
both ailerons being matched slightly up of dead neutral on the ground, which
you should be able to adjust with all the various points to do just that.
Then fly and fine tune it from there. Best of luck with the Jabiru but watch
out for cyl head distortion, because unless you have calibrated all the
instruments the engine temps can't be believed. That engine will soon tell
you what temperatures it is suffering without any gauges ! Been there got
the "T" shirt.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Now with Rotax 914 !!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirEupora
Sent: 16 November 2012 01:37
Subject: Europa-List: heavy left wing
I have finally figured out my overheating problem with the Jabiru engine.
Mostly it is the MGL EMS unit telling me that the engine is 36 C hotter than
it really is.
I have now been able to fly for longer times and distance and one of the
first things that got my attention is the heavy left wing. The aileron tip
is down about 1 to 1 1/2 inches is straight and level flight. The right is
up about 1/4 to 1/2" . I had been thinking since I weight in at 250 pounds
that was the cause, but today I added 150 pounds to the PAX seat, Sand
Bags!. It helped, but not my much.
Bud had sent a picture of adding a pencil to the bottom of the aileron.
This bought the aileron up, but the turning increased.
I'm thinking that I don't have enough lift on this wing or too much on the
right wing.
I remember reading a couple of months ago about making the flap stay down by
placing a block on the up side of the slot.
Is this really a good way to add lift to this wing?
Or is there a better way? I remember when I set the Angle of Incidence and
even took pictures of both sides.
What do I do now?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388012#388012
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists?
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists anyway? I've been working
in the Information Technology industry for over 28 years, primarily in computer
networking design and implementation and more recently as an embedded software
engineer. I have also done a fair amount of work in web design and development.
I started the Matronics Email Lists way back in 1990 shortly after I started building
my RV-4 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since
that time, I have added many other types of aircraft related Lists to the line
up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives
and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers locally.
Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
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The computer servers include a dual quad-core Linux server for List web services
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Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these
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A while back, I upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new
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Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists and followed that upgrade up with
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As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
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But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've mentioned many times
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It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you...
and you... and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
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Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
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Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2012
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com>
Subject: Europa Classic Monowheel Fight Test Report
Europaphiles,
=C2-
Yesterday was a breakthrough day for myself and our Jabiru powered Europa Mo
nowheel Classic kit #A012. =C2-After making some changes in the cowl my CH
T issues have improved greatly enough for me to take the aircraft and to fin
ally experience what can only be described as a delightful flying machine.
=C2-I flew for 1.2 hours and took our "Gladys" (In honour of my English Gr
andmother) up to 5000 feet to get more familiar with the handling characteri
stics of the aircraft. =C2-I am pleased to report that I was able to trim
the aircraft =C2-and fly hands off and the airplane flew like she was on a
rail!
=C2-
In a best rate climb from 4000' to 5000' =C2-she climbed at 1600 fpm. =C2
-I also saw 126 knots indicated 123 ground at 2750 RPM burning 6.2 gallons
an hour. =C2-Control forces are balanced and responsive. =C2-Slow fligh
t, S-turns, turns around a point all very predictable. =C2-My landings are
getting better and i'll leave it at that...
=C2-
Pulling the cowls today and going to give the aircraft a real close inspecti
on and hopefully the weather and winds allow me to get up this weekend.
=C2-
Cheers,
=C2-
Jeff Paris N127ZP=C2-
Rochester NY =C2-Williamson Sodus Airport, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Cointe" <mcointe(at)free.fr>
Subject: Europa Classic Monowheel Fight Test Report
Date: Nov 16, 2012
Hi Jeff,
Congratulations and Welcome to the club of Europa lovers! It=99s
just the beginning of a long story I=99m sure J
Max Cointe
F-PMLH Europa_TriGear
Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours
mcointe(at)free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2012
From: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing
Something to check for with your "heavy wing problem". I had a similar problem
with my plane following a major wing repair, not my Europa but my Citabria.
It sure seemed that one wing had notably more lift than the other. The incidence
was equal wing to wing with no visible or measurable difference between wings
but it would not fly straight without input pressure on stick and rudder,
it wanted to roll. Because it seemed to be a wing problem, I proceeded to adjust
the washout/washin to correct the difference in lift, this can be done with
a high wing by adjusting the struts. I could get it to fly hand off but then
one aileron was 1 inch up and the other down. Needless to say, I sure didn't
like the stall characteristics with unequal washout. Scratching my head and
deciding to look outside my box, the problem turned out to be a misinstalled
tail wheel spring inputting rudder pressure to one side. This was not an intuitive
place to look for me but it sure was the problem. Correcting the spring
and rudder, it was then easy to get the plane tuned up and flying hands off straight
and level. So you might check if your rudder linkage is inputting pressure
to one side.
Bill McClellan
-----Original Message-----
>From: AirEupora <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Nov 15, 2012 5:36 PM
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: heavy left wing
>
>
>I have finally figured out my overheating problem with the Jabiru engine. Mostly
it is the MGL EMS unit telling me that the engine is 36 C hotter than it really
is.
>
>I have now been able to fly for longer times and distance and one of the first
things that got my attention is the heavy left wing. The aileron tip is down
about 1 to 1 1/2 inches is straight and level flight. The right is up about
1/4 to 1/2" . I had been thinking since I weight in at 250 pounds that was the
cause, but today I added 150 pounds to the PAX seat, Sand Bags!. It helped,
but not my much.
>
>Bud had sent a picture of adding a pencil to the bottom of the aileron. This
bought the aileron up, but the turning increased.
>
>I'm thinking that I don't have enough lift on this wing or too much on the right
wing.
>
>I remember reading a couple of months ago about making the flap stay down by placing
a block on the up side of the slot.
>
>Is this really a good way to add lift to this wing?
>
>Or is there a better way? I remember when I set the Angle of Incidence and even
took pictures of both sides.
>
>What do I do now?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388012#388012
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Across UK Stanstead zone
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 16, 2012
I used to frequently get permission to route across Luton, London City and even
Heathrow (Ascott - Burnham) zones but haven't tried since the Olympics. Has anyone
had a route across any of these or Stanstead (say NW to SE) recently?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388136#388136
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: heavy left wing
From: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 17, 2012
Thanks Bill
While flying I have check the ball and played around with the rudder to see if
I could pick the wing up using rudder. It helped a a little, but the wing does
not want to fly level.
I have completed my stalls with light weight and with heavy weight. The right
wing always stalls first. Power on stall I could not get the plane to stall.
It would turn to the left, almost like a VMC demo on a twin, where I could not
control the turn. It was not at an altitude where I felled comfortable doing
a complete power on stall with the wing acting this way.
I'm thinking that I made a mistake on the angle of incidence. Although I took
pictures showing the 2.5 degree on both wings it acts as if there is not enough
on this wing.
Now, how do I correct it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388165#388165
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2012
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing
First thing to check is the incidence at 2/3 span and almost full-span. I
ncidence at the root is not really important.-=0AMake two more templates
with a Vee that locates against the-leading-edge and rests on the trail
ing edge of the wing,=0A(not flap or aileron) Then compare the two wings at
each point. The further outboard the more the effect of any error.=0AGraha
m=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: AirEupora <AirEupora@sb
cglobal.net>=0ATo: europa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 17 November
2012, 16:23=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: heavy left wing=0A =0A--> Europa-L
ist message posted by: "AirEupora" =0A=0AThanks Bi
ll=0A=0AWhile flying I have check the ball and played around with the rudde
r to see if I could pick the wing up using rudder.- It helped a a little,
but the wing does not want to fly level.=0A=0AI have completed my stalls w
ith light weight and with heavy weight.- The right wing always stalls fir
st.- Power on stall I could not get the plane to stall.- It would turn
to the left, almost like a VMC demo on a twin, where I could not control th
e turn.- It was not at an altitude where I felled comfortable doing a com
plete power on stall with the wing acting this way.- =0A=0AI'm thinking t
hat I made a mistake on the angle of incidence.- Although I took pictures
showing the 2.5 degree on both wings it acts as if there is not enough on
this wing.=0A=0ANow, how do I correct it?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onl
ine here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388165#388165
======
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa Classic Monowheel Fight Test Report
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 17, 2012
Hi Jeff,
Congratulations on your success. Sounds like a wonderful flying machine you have.
I too have a Monowheel Classic, but with a 912S and a ground adjustable warp
drive. I was just curious about you great speeds and had some questions. I was
wondering what prop you are using, if you've fitted any drag reducing fairings
etc, or it all because of the Jabiru engine. The best I can get in my Classic
is about 115 knots indicated at around 5k. Got pix?
Troy Maynor
Europa Monowheel Classic
195 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388193#388193
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Quiet plane
Date: Nov 18, 2012
Walking with my wife this morning, in glorious weather
along the hairpin in the Severn when at around 11.30 an
amazingly quiet plane flew over at perhaps 2500ft. Out
with the binocs & it proved to be a mono Europa. Had to
bite my tongue not to say 'Wouldn't it be great to be
flying.' (Su was severely mentally traumatised by some
f...oreign pilot in the Alps many years ago and came down
saying she would never go in a small plane again! )
But whoever it was, (? Tim), I am sure you had a
great flight! David Joyce, G-XSDJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info>
Subject: Quiet plane
Date: Nov 18, 2012
Hi David
3,300 feet, 110 kts indicated, 11.6 litres per hour. G-RMAC out of
Chavenage. Came back at 125 kts with 14.6 litres per hour.
Wonderful flying morning, great vis and totally calm air.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 18 November 2012 14:53
Subject: Europa-List: Quiet plane
Walking with my wife this morning, in glorious weather
along the hairpin in the Severn when at around 11.30 an
amazingly quiet plane flew over at perhaps 2500ft. Out
with the binocs & it proved to be a mono Europa. Had to
bite my tongue not to say 'Wouldn't it be great to be
flying.' (Su was severely mentally traumatised by some
f...oreign pilot in the Alps many years ago and came down
saying she would never go in a small plane again! )
But whoever it was, (? Tim), I am sure you had a
great flight! David Joyce, G-XSDJ
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by Houxou, and is
believed to be clean.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2012
Subject: Cabin Heater Bits
From: Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com>
Hi Everyone,
I need to make up a cabin heating system to sit on my Jabiru 3300 in Europa
- does anyone know of anyone that has made up parts to save me having to
fabricate from scratch?
The exhaust header pipes appear to be 1 1/4" which is quite small.
Regards,
-Carl.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A spectacle in Uk Norflok
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 18, 2012
here is something worth a look from a plane; nothing on tens of miles of sandy
beach but thousands of seals and pups at Blakeney Point near Cromer in Norfolk.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388225#388225
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01186blakeney_point_578.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Classic Monowheel Fight Test Report
Date: Nov 18, 2012
Jeff,
Glad to hear you got into the air finally.
Keep tweaking the cooling issues and enjoy your plane.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey J Paris<mailto:jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:23 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Classic Monowheel Fight Test Report
Europaphiles,
Yesterday was a breakthrough day for myself and our Jabiru powered
Europa Monowheel Classic kit #A012. After making some changes in the
cowl my CHT issues have improved greatly enough for me to take the
aircraft and to finally experience what can only be described as a
delightful flying machine. I flew for 1.2 hours and took our "Gladys"
(In honour of my English Grandmother) up to 5000 feet to get more
familiar with the handling characteristics of the aircraft. I am
pleased to report that I was able to trim the aircraft and fly hands
off and the airplane flew like she was on a rail!
In a best rate climb from 4000' to 5000' she climbed at 1600 fpm. I
also saw 126 knots indicated 123 ground at 2750 RPM burning 6.2 gallons
an hour. Control forces are balanced and responsive. Slow flight,
S-turns, turns around a point all very predictable. My landings are
getting better and i'll leave it at that...
Pulling the cowls today and going to give the aircraft a real close
inspection and hopefully the weather and winds allow me to get up this
weekend.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris N127ZP
Rochester NY Williamson Sodus Airport, NY
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely
through your Contributions during this time of the year.
*Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another
great year!
Use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by sending a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A spectacle in Uk Norflok
From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Hello Graeme,
Wonderful picture. It is this sort of thing that drives me back into the garage
on cold wintry days to get the h... on with finally finishing my plane!
Thanks,
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388319#388319
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ultimate Vents
From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
I have purchased a pair of Ultimate vents which I plan on installing soon. I have
seen these put in a number of positions. Does anyone out there feel he has
the perfect position and orientation for these vents sorted out, in terms of effectivity,
accessibility, and interference? Any particular tips on the installation
process?
In practice, are these vents by themselves sufficient or are other measures needed
to ensure minimum / effective ventilation?
Help appreciated,
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388320#388320
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dimention needed please.
From: "stephen vestuti" <s.vestuti(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Hi,
can someone with a flying or compleated Europa give me the dimension from the back
of the
control stick to vertical front of the seat unit when the stick is fully aft and
also stick fully forward,
many thanks,
steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388341#388341
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Glider Wing Build
Date: Nov 19, 2012
This is an appeal for information from glider wing builders.
Steve Leisch (Kit A208) has realised that there are 2 Tufnol bearings part
number GAB03 that are not referenced in any of the build documents.
I have checked with Karen at Europa and can confirm that GAB03s are diamond
shaped Tufnol blocks with a hole in the middle (which is large enough for
the airbrake push rod to pass through). Talking to Nev, I believe they are
fixed on the root rib to act as an inboard bearing for the airbrake
pushrod. The end of the pushrod enters the cabin and is attaches to the
cables as per Fig 11 on Page 28a
In the Glider manual, section 8-13 refers to cutting the air brake push rods
(roughly) to length and fitting the bell crank end. There is no detail for
cutting the holes through the ribs forward of the spar, finalising the
length, attaching the inboard end fitting on the pushrod or the final
connection to the cables.
As no one at Europa has any further information I will try and collect as
much as I can. I would be pleased to have
have any notes, pictures or drawings you may have.
When I have got this together I am happy to produce a Build manual
supplement covering this area.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G-IANI" <g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Dimention needed please.
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Steve
On G-IRON and measured horizontally at the top of the seat face 65mm and
115mm. This can be varied depending on the adjustment of the push rod
lengths and your preference.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimention needed please.
From: "stephen vestuti" <s.vestuti(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2012
Ian, thanks for the quick response,
Steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388356#388356
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for 914 users
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Hello Gilles,
Sorry for the delay in replying.
I hadn't considered what you have suggested thanks and only got to checking it
out two days ago.
The line from the equaliser tube to the pressure sensor has a filter which was
wrapped in a heat insulating mat. This prevented casual observation of the state
of the filter. On removing this covering I found the filter saturated with
a brown sludge which I assume was stale condensate of fuel. When I blew through
the line (with my mouth) there was a lot of restriction as you can imagine
and I was thinking "thanks Gilles", you were right on the ball!
I did over two hours flying yesterday after fitting a new filter in a more elevated
position and guess what? MAP readings on take-offs are identical to what
they were before. (head now shaking!)
Because the engine is running so nicely, I have decided to let sleeping dogs lie.
There is no point trying to fix something if one is not sure it is 'broke'!
Thanks again for your thoughts Gilles.
Best regards
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 14/11/2012, at 10:19 PM, Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> wrote:
> What about the MAP lines, water trap, restriction, etc. ?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Vents
On 11/19/2012 12:04 PM, jglazener wrote:
> I have purchased a pair of Ultimate vents which I plan on installing
> soon. I have seen these put in a number of positions. Does anyone out
> there feel he has the perfect position and orientation for these
> vents sorted out, in terms of effectivity, accessibility, and
> interference? Any particular tips on the installation process?
I have them too, I installed them with the knob pointing towards the
tail. They are working perfectly, the airstream is adjustable to all
positions. I have also installed an overhead vent, which is great if you
also want to have some air blowing on your head. (I'm bald and some air
there keeps my brain from overheating).
> In practice, are these vents by themselves sufficient or are other
> measures needed to ensure minimum / effective ventilation?
Something often overlooked: If you want to let air in, you also have to
let air out somewhere. Otherwise you are just pressurizing the cabin
until it won't allow any more fresh air in, only just enough to make up
for the air leaks, which, depending of the build, might be quite
restrictive.
I have still not solved this to my full satisfaction. I have a hose
running from the D-panel to the tailpost, thinking that the gap between
the rudder and the fin is a low pressure area and would be a low drag
air outlet. To my surprise, with the overhead and ultimate vents closed,
it actually blows air into the cockpit. And no, I have no idea where
that air is leaving again. I have a lockpin in the middle of the door (a
MUST if you want to prevent the doors from bulging out during flight and
leaking out massive amounts of turbulent air in the low pressure area
above the wing roots) and the flap drive slots are sealed by the Fred
Klein's wing root fairings. It might be that my cowl flap is so
efficient that it pulls air through the rudder cable slots so the tunnel
becomes a low pressure area and sucks air out via the inspection holes
and power lever slot. The only other openings are the tail plain slots,
but if the rudder gap is not a low pressure area I wonder why the tail
plain slots would be.
So, you might want to think about an air outlet too. Don't make it too
efficient though: I have these small windows in the door and they are no
fun to open during flight as they actually suck the air out and
underpressurize the cabin. What happens then is that the cockpit sucks
air from all kind of sources, some not too fresh. The cabin fills
quickly with a mixture of hot oil smell, traces of fuel smell, a dash of
exhaust smell, etc. So take care not to underpressurize the cabin.
The ultimate vents always provide fresh air, only during stalls
sometimes some exhaust smell seems to make it into the cockpit.
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultimate Vents
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Hi Frans,
Years ago I did some flight testing with the D panel partially open and found that
air was blowing from the back fuselage to the cockpit whenever fresh air vents
and heating flap were closed. With the vents open or heating on, there were
no flow through the D panel opening. So you are right that the rear fuselage
is a relatively high pressure area. In the monowheel air is clearly sucked
by the wheel well through the flap/gear lever slot. This is probably why in my
aircraft the air vents are very effective without any purpose built extraction
device.
Should an extraction device be necessary, I would try a hose from the D panel to
an inverted scoop (or inverted Naca ??) at the bottom of the rear fuselage.
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388389#388389
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Vents
Hi Remi,
> So you are right that the rear fuselage is a
> relatively high pressure area.
I had a hose connected to the outlet of the D-panel, all the way to the
sternpost. No air from the rear fuselage could get into the hose.
The interesting thing is that the sternpost (actually the space between
sternpost and rudder) is also a high pressure area.
I'm very surprised about that, as the rudder is smaller than the
sternpost, and air is streaming over the fin to the rudder and must
effect a suction force on the gap between fin and rudder.
At least we can conclude that the airflow remains firmly attached to the
rear fuselage, which is a good thing as it helps recovering some
pressure loss.
> Should an extraction device be
> necessary, I would try a hose from the D panel to an inverted scoop
> (or inverted Naca ??) at the bottom of the rear fuselage.
You can't invert Naca scoops, that won't work. But of course, some other
kind of scoop would work. The challenge is however to find some
"natural" outlet, as the gap between fin and rudder was supposed to be,
so the expelling air would reduce some drag instead of creating more.
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Subject: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Hello Europa builders:
I am about to drill holes into the stainless steel CLASSIC exhaust headers
to mount the EGT probes. Rotax912S manual says to locate the EGT probes 70m
m or 2.75 inches from the exhaust port. Both back exhaust pointing stacks e
nd up drilling the thicker, double side flange if I take this measurement.
Is this OK? Front exhaust measures 70mm (2.75 inch) on the not- welded part
. Is this OK or have CLASSIC engine installations chosen a different distan
ce.
I have a GRT EIS Model 4000 for Rotax 912. It came with a number of probes
but no description of probes and where to mount them. EGT was no issue (see
above). However, there is a set of what I assume CHT probes, one terminati
ng at one end with a large ring terminal (3/8 inch) and one with a very sma
ll ring terminal (1/8 inch). What are they for and where do I mont those? R
otax installation manual specifies that 2 probes are to be connected to the
hot water location locations provided but then on one page describe tappin
g a M-5 (5mm) thread to "install" a probe measuring the CHT directly at the
cylinder cooling fins as described.
I would appreciate some quick clarification for those who have installed th
is combination. Pictures appreciated.
Thanks very much.
Christoph Both
#223 CLASSIC Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Glider Wing Build
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Ian,
I have all the detail on this. I have built 4 MGs and even a Classic
MG.
Please note that it is fitting process and quite easy but requires (like
all airplane building) to rig the wings and derig to get it right.
Contact me off line and we will supply you with the appropriate info,
tips and tricks.
Regards
Bud Yerly
Europa Tech Support
----- Original Message -----
From: G-IANI<mailto:g-iani(at)ntlworld.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Glider Wing Build
>
This is an appeal for information from glider wing builders.
Steve Leisch (Kit A208) has realised that there are 2 Tufnol bearings
part
number GAB03 that are not referenced in any of the build documents.
I have checked with Karen at Europa and can confirm that GAB03s are
diamond
shaped Tufnol blocks with a hole in the middle (which is large enough
for
the airbrake push rod to pass through). Talking to Nev, I believe
they are
fixed on the root rib to act as an inboard bearing for the airbrake
pushrod. The end of the pushrod enters the cabin and is attaches to
the
cables as per Fig 11 on Page 28a
In the Glider manual, section 8-13 refers to cutting the air brake
push rods
(roughly) to length and fitting the bell crank end. There is no
detail for
cutting the holes through the ribs forward of the spar, finalising the
length, attaching the inboard end fitting on the pushrod or the final
connection to the cables.
As no one at Europa has any further information I will try and collect
as
much as I can. I would be pleased to have
have any notes, pictures or drawings you may have.
When I have got this together I am happy to produce a Build manual
supplement covering this area.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
Subject: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Hello Christoph,
I also have the GRT EIS 4000 (I am very pleased with its performance),
912ULS and XS firewall-forward kit from Europa. Please see the attached
photo for where the aft EGT probes are mounted - no double side flange on
the exhaust tubes, though, as far as I can see on the photo.
My EIS set came with 4 ring terminals, of equal size. They are
thermocouples to be pressed against the cylinder head metal, under a bolt to
be screwed into the threaded holes provided for the standard Rotax CHT
probes. The standard probes measures the temperatures inside the CH cavity,
while the ring thermocouple will be exposed to cylinder cooling air.
Therefore, you must cover the thermocouples and the adjacent CH metal well
with a suitable compound (I used the red high-temp silicone from Loctite).
There is a noticeable difference in measured temperature with and without
this insulation against air cooling (I did not have it at first). See
attached photo.
I have not fitted any probes between cooling fins.
Since I operate my engine with 50/50 glycol/water, I have also fitted a
coolant temp probe into the hose between one of the cylinders and the small
black "bottle" on top of the engine (as per Rotax recommendation). This
probe is connected to one of the available input channels on the EIS.
Why there is one large and one small thermocouple in your set I do not know
- it should be 4 of equal size to fit under the head of suitable bolt.
Suggest you ask GRT about this.
As you probably know, you must not cut and splice the thermocouple cables -
they must run from the instrument to the cylinders just as they came from
GRT.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Venting cabin
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Date: Nov 20, 2012
Hi.
I've attached a photo of a venting device I fitted to my Tri-gear when I
had it.
Cant remember where the idea came from but it worked at extracting air
from cabin.
The very basic theory is that the shape (sort of airfoil) created lower
pressure at the point of the series of holes and air was extracted.
I never did any scientific analysis but it did seem to work in
conjunction with the overhead eyeball vents fitted.
It could have all been bunkum but I was happy!
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Nice Comments...
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support
Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available this year, so please browse the nice selection
and pickup something fun with your qualifying Contribution!
You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
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Or feel free to send a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
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Douwe B
Outstanding service to the flying community.
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Glenn B
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Roger C
Thank you for keeping up the lists. Without it i would never
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Stan S
Keep up the good work my friend. I don't think I could ever
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Tom S
Thank you for keeping these list alive.
Lee V
The List is invaluable!!
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Fergus K
My RV 7 Finally flies... 7 years of Matronics.com certainly
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Martin H
Great service here, thanks! I am just getting back to a
project I dropped for a few years, great to see your site
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James C
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-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 21, 2012
Hi Chris,
I will reply as I have a classic install but admit I won't be much help. I used
an engine monitor that went out of business, called Audio Flight Avionics. It
came with two threaded (5mm?) CHT probes that screwed into two holes already
tapped on the front left and right rear cylinders. I am 40 miles from my hanger
so I can't go out and look or take any measurements very soon. The 3/8" ring
terminal you mention is meant to go under on of the spark plugs on the same cyclinder
most likely. Don't understand the 1/8" one though. I'd call Grand Rapids
for guidance unless someone here knows.
I remember having to move the EGT probes slightly away from the heads very slightly,(again
can't measure today) in order to get away from the thick area of the
exhaust pipe. With that, coincidentally, I was about to broach the subject
of EGT here in a few days when I have gathered some data on my plane. It seems
two of my cylinders are hotter than they should be, but thats off the point for
now. Hope you can get the answers you want.
Troy Maynor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388509#388509
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
Subject: Re: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
Date: Nov 21, 2012
Troy and Chris,
> The 3/8" ring terminal you mention is meant to go under on of the spark
> plugs on the same cyclinder most likely.
I heard this when I was about to do my installation, but as I recall there
is no space for a ring terminal in the spark plug recess in the cylinder
head.
My memory may be failing, though .........
Regards,
Svein
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
Date: Nov 21, 2012
Chris,
Please check the grtavionics.com website for installation notes and the
updated manual . I've attached Rev K. We are a sales point for GRT and
install them frequently.
EGT s normally are two inches from the outlet of the head, but that is
in the crux of the bend.
2.75 is not that bad. Anything beyond that like out to a max of 8
inches decreases accuracy but is still great for trends. Normally only
the two rear cylinders are needed on a 912/914 engine. Place the EGT
probes on a fairly straight section and drill the hole so as to keep the
probe from rubbing on anything. Pay attention to the foot well and oil
tank and plan accordingly.
GRT avionics has the larger CHT ring terminals which go on the Rotax CHT
probes. You unscrew the probes and put the CHT supplied rings on there
and they are an exact fit. I believe for the Rotax it is a 12mm..
There is an option for those who desire a bolt on probe to the cylinder
fins. This is normally not provided and I am surprised you received
one...
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christoph Both<mailto:christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:03 AM
Subject: Europa-List: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation
Hello Europa builders:
I am about to drill holes into the stainless steel CLASSIC exhaust
headers to mount the EGT probes. Rotax912S manual says to locate the EGT
probes 70mm or 2.75 inches from the exhaust port. Both back exhaust
pointing stacks end up drilling the thicker, double side flange if I
take this measurement. Is this OK? Front exhaust measures 70mm (2.75
inch) on the not- welded part. Is this OK or have CLASSIC engine
installations chosen a different distance.
I have a GRT EIS Model 4000 for Rotax 912. It came with a number of
probes but no description of probes and where to mount them. EGT was no
issue (see above). However, there is a set of what I assume CHT probes,
one terminating at one end with a large ring terminal (3/8 inch) and one
with a very small ring terminal (1/8 inch). What are they for and where
do I mont those? Rotax installation manual specifies that 2 probes are
to be connected to the hot water location locations provided but then on
one page describe tapping a M-5 (5mm) thread to "install" a probe
measuring the CHT directly at the cylinder cooling fins as described.
I would appreciate some quick clarification for those who have
installed this combination. Pictures appreciated.
Thanks very much.
Christoph Both
#223 CLASSIC Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
avigator?Europa-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultimate Vents
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Nov 22, 2012
Frans,
I now realize how stupid it was to suggest a reversed Naca. I should have thought
at it twice before writing!
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388572#388572
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Tank
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2012
When i got my kit (second hand and un-started) it came with two petrol tanks, one
was coated inside so fuel wouldn't soak into the moulding, a mod apparently?
but my question is how would you tell the difference between the two?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388606#388606
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2012
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank
If the 'coating' you refer to is flouronation, then it is very difficult
to tell. If the flouronation is done to a high level, then the finish of
the plastic is 'frosty', similar to a 'frosted' opaque window.
That said, even if the tank has been flouronated (which they are from the
Europa factory for many years), if the vent and fill holes are cut open to
the finished sizes the fuel will still permeate and swell the plastic
through the cuts, since the flouronated layer is only 'atoms' thick.
Cheers,
Pete
A239 as always, still a pile of parts
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 12:45 PM, spcialeffects wrote:
>
> When i got my kit (second hand and un-started) it came with two petrol
> tanks, one was coated inside so fuel wouldn't soak into the moulding, a mod
> apparently? but my question is how would you tell the difference between
> the two?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388606#388606
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2012
Subject: Rear Wing Pins
From: Tyler J <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>
I just recently purchased a partially completed monowheel "classic" kit.
The rear wing pins have not been installed and I have all the parts for Mod
52. The pins with the Mod are sized W24/4 and because I was unsure whether
they were the original W24 pin or new, I test fit them into the socket
assembly W26A,B,C and they fit perfectly. However, in reading Mod 74, it
lists the pins as W24/7. When reading Mod 52, in the body of the text
talking about socket assembly, it relates the new W24/5 pin should be test
fit. So, can someone tell me the difference between the W24/7, W24/5 and
W24/4 terminology as it relates to the pins? I know it is proabably a
simple answer for this esteemed group, but I appreciate any info as I am
trying to increase my knowledge of this wonderful aircraft.
Tyler J.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2012
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Rear Wing Pins W 24
Tyler,=0A-=0ARe Wing pins, W 24, I recently replaced the W 24 wing pins o
n my Europa XS, and was surprised at the increased length of the threaded p
ortion of the pin that arrived. (Approx 3 times longer than removed pins).
=0A-=0AI rang Karen at the Europa factory to check that the part was of t
he correct specification.=0A-=0AThe reply was that the long pin was now s
tandard , as supplied for the mod 52 (classic wing) modification, ie the pi
n is long enough to-pass through the mounting plates, and after cutting a
hole in the underside (of the classic) wing-a flox resin pad is created
under a washer and nylock nut, hence the longer thread.-=0A-=0ASo a che
ck assembly (dry run) should confirm if the installed pin length will allow
the nut and washer to all fit.=0A-=0AOr ring Karen first-at the Europa
factory and ask if the pins they stock are the same size as the pin you ha
ve ( and the current part number) she is very helpful .=0A-=0APS when you
go ahead get your inspectors sign off before you close up the access hole
!=0A-=0ARegards=0A-=0AKevin=0A =0A=0A________________________________
=0A From: Tyler J <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: Europa-List(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 19:35=0ASubject: Europa-List: Rear Win
g Pins=0A =0A=0AI just recently purchased a partially completed monowheel
"classic"-kit.- The rear wing pins have not been installed and I have a
ll the parts for Mod 52.- The pins with the Mod are sized-W24/4 and-b
ecause I was unsure whether they were the original W24 pin or new, -I tes
t fit them into the socket assembly W26A,B,C and they fit perfectly.- How
ever, in reading Mod 74, it lists the pins as W24/7.- When reading Mod 52
, in the body of the text talking about socket assembly, it relates the new
W24/5 pin should be test fit.- So, can someone tell me the difference be
tween the W24/7, W24/5 and W24/4 terminology as it relates to the pins?-
I know it is proabably a simple answer for this esteemed group, but I appre
ciate any info as I am trying to increase my knowledge of this wonderful ai
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...?
Dear Listers,
The number of List subscriptions are up by a fair amount this year, but support
during this year's Fund Raiser is substantially behind last year, and there's
only about a week left until the end of the Fund Raiser. I have always preferred
a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed
that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient
funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income might be required
including some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal
Contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping this operation a
float.
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors!
The List Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2012
From: mau11 <mau11(at)free.fr>
Subject: Monowheel brake disc
SGkgYWxsLA0KVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGlzIGZvciBidWlsZGVyIGhhdmUgbWFkZSB0cmktZ2VhciBj
b252ZXJzaW9uLiBBZnRlciBteSBzb24gYnV5IGEgbW9ub3doZWVsICg1NTAgaG91cnMpIHdlIGhh
dmUgbWFkZSBhIHRyaS1nZWFyIGNvbnZlcnNpb24uDQpGb3IgbXkgbW9ub3doZWVsIEkgaGF2ZSBw
cm9qZWN0IHRvIHVzZSB0aGlzIHdoZWVsIHdpdGggYSBDb25kb3IgdGlyZSwgZHVyaW5nIHJlcGxh
Y2VtZW50IHRpcmUgSSBkaXNjb3ZlciB0aGF0IHRoZSBicmFrZSBkaXNjIHN1cHBvcnQgKHdoZWVs
IHNpZGUgb3Bwb3NpdGUgdG8gdGhlIGRpc2MpIGhhdmUgZGVmb3JtYXRpb24gYWJvdXQgMiBtbS4N
Cg0KRG9lcyBhbnlvbmUgaGF2ZSBtb25vd2hlZWwgYnJha2UgZGlzYyBhdmFpbGFibGUgKHdpdGgg
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ=
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Monowheel brake disc
From: RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2012
Michel
I have just bought the Beringer mono wheel and brake kit for my unbuilt XS m
ono. As a result i have all the parts of the unused original mono wheel and b
rake set available for sale, together or separately.
Kind regards
Richard
On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:22, mau11 wrote:
> Hi all,
> This message is for builder have made tri-gear conversion. After my son bu
y a monowheel (550 hours) we have made a tri-gear conversion.
> For my monowheel I have project to use this wheel with a Condor tire, duri
ng replacement tire I discover that the brake disc support (wheel side oppos
ite to the disc) have deformation about 2 mm.
>
> Does anyone have monowheel brake disc available (with no many hours flight
) no deformation on the opposite surface of the disc (wheel side). see the d
rawing joint.
> I am interested.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Michel AUVRAY
>
>
>
> From: Tyler J
> Date: 2012-11-22 20:35
> To: Europa-List
> Subject: Europa-List: Rear Wing Pins
> I just recently purchased a partially completed monowheel "classic" kit. T
he rear wing pins have not been installed and I have all the parts for Mod 5
2. The pins with the Mod are sized W24/4 and because I was unsure whether t
hey were the original W24 pin or new, I test fit them into the socket assem
bly W26A,B,C and they fit perfectly. However, in reading Mod 74, it lists t
he pins as W24/7. When reading Mod 52, in the body of the text talking abou
t socket assembly, it relates the new W24/5 pin should be test fit. So, can
someone tell me the difference between the W24/7, W24/5 and W24/4 terminolo
gy as it relates to the pins? I know it is proabably a simple answer for th
is esteemed group, but I appreciate any info as I am trying to increase my k
nowledge of this wonderful aircraft.
>
> Tyler J.
>
>
> =========================
> lectric.com
> m">www.buildersbooks.com
> ebuilthelp.com
> w.matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> =========================
> nics.com
> =========================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Charging
From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2012
Hello All.
Winter is coming, its not a good time for Batteries in the cold weather.
Has anyone fitted an external charging point to the fuselage.
My Battery is located in the rear on the Starboard side of the plane.
Is there a purpose make kit on the market one can use,?
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388767#388767
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electrics
Date: Nov 24, 2012
From: "Peter Field" <Peter.Field(at)hgfield.co.uk>
Does anybody know what retains the cables pushed into the terminal block
(see photo)? The ignition circuit kill wires are the two white cables
and we have had some trouble with these not making a good connection.
There are rubber grommets that fit around the wires and appear to be the
only means of securing a contact by applying pressure to the cable when
fitted inside the block.
Peter Field. G-CHOX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Electrics
Date: Nov 24, 2012
Hi! Peter, The grommets are to stop the ingress of water and maintain the
wire central, so mine are mounted vertically, perhaps that would help ?
I presume that you have a tang crimped to the wire which engages in the slot
in the socket from memory?
Regards
Bob Harrison.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Field
Sent: 24 November 2012 10:39
Subject: Europa-List: Electrics
Does anybody know what retains the cables pushed into the terminal block
(see photo)? The ignition circuit kill wires are the two white cables and we
have had some trouble with these not making a good connection. There are
rubber grommets that fit around the wires and appear to be the only means of
securing a contact by applying pressure to the cable when fitted inside the
block.
Peter Field. G-CHOX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Electrics
Date: Nov 24, 2012
Hi Pete,
I can see from your photo that these white wires are not pushed fully home.
You will notice that each of the other wires in the plastic multi connector
shows two black/dark coloured parallel strips just inside where they enter
the connector block. These are water seals. If you now look at your two
offending white wires these strips do not look the same because they are not
fully pushed home.
So the answer to your question is to push them further in. You will find
that they pop into place when in the correct position and should then look
like the other wires.
Give it a try, think you will find this fixes your problem.
Pete
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Field
Sent: 24 November 2012 10:39
Subject: Europa-List: Electrics
Does anybody know what retains the cables pushed into the terminal block
(see photo)? The ignition circuit kill wires are the two white cables and we
have had some trouble with these not making a good connection. There are
rubber grommets that fit around the wires and appear to be the only means of
securing a contact by applying pressure to the cable when fitted inside the
block.
Peter Field. G-CHOX
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear Wing Pins W 24
From: Tyler <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2012
Thank you for the information.
On Nov 22, 2012, at 2:04 PM, K BURNS wrote:
> Tyler,
>
> Re Wing pins, W 24, I recently replaced the W 24 wing pins on my Europa XS
, and was surprised at the increased length of the threaded portion of the p
in that arrived. (Approx 3 times longer than removed pins).
>
> I rang Karen at the Europa factory to check that the part was of the corre
ct specification.
>
> The reply was that the long pin was now standard , as supplied for the mod
52 (classic wing) modification, ie the pin is long enough to pass through t
he mounting plates, and after cutting a hole in the underside (of the classi
c) wing a flox resin pad is created under a washer and nylock nut, hence the
longer thread.
>
> So a check assembly (dry run) should confirm if the installed pin length w
ill allow the nut and washer to all fit.
>
> Or ring Karen first at the Europa factory and ask if the pins they stock a
re the same size as the pin you have ( and the current part number) she is v
ery helpful .
>
> PS when you go ahead get your inspectors sign off before you close up the a
ccess hole !
>
> Regards
>
> Kevin
>
> From: Tyler J <helidogtyler(at)gmail.com>
> To: Europa-List(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 19:35
> Subject: Europa-List: Rear Wing Pins
>
> I just recently purchased a partially completed monowheel "classic" kit. T
he rear wing pins have not been installed and I have all the parts for Mod 5
2. The pins with the Mod are sized W24/4 and because I was unsure whether t
hey were the original W24 pin or new, I test fit them into the socket assem
bly W26A,B,C and they fit perfectly. However, in reading Mod 74, it lists t
he pins as W24/7. When reading Mod 52, in the body of the text talking abou
t socket assembly, it relates the new W24/5 pin should be test fit. So, can
someone tell me the difference between the W24/7, W24/5 and W24/4 terminolo
gy as it relates to the pins? I know it is proabably a simple answer for th
is esteemed group, but I appreciate any info as I am trying to increase my k
nowledge of this wonderful aircraft.
>
> Tyler J.
> http://www.matronics.com/contributuropa-List" rel="nofollow" target="_
blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav.matronics.com/" rel="nofollow" target=
"_blank">http://forums.matronics===============
==
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: Electrics
On 11/24/2012 11:39 AM, Peter Field wrote:
> Does anybody know what retains the cables pushed into the terminal block
> (see photo)? The ignition circuit kill wires are the two white cables
> and we have had some trouble with these not making a good connection.
Apart from that they are not pushed fully home, as some others have
mentioned, I see a few more worrying things.
First, these wires should go to your ignition-switch and nowhere else.
But within a very short distance I see a screw terminal (which are
invented to connect lamp sockets to your house wiring - vibration free
-, but are totally unsuitable for car purposes, let alone aircraft
purposes), and some (soldered) connection within a shrink tube. Why is
there not just a straigth cable going to your ignition switch? This is
just asking for trouble, and it looks like your trouble already started.
The vast majority of electrical failures are due to bad connections, so
you should keep the amount of connections down to the absolute minimum,
and where unavoidable, use high quality connectors (and houshold screw
terminals do not in the least qualify for this).
Furthermore it looks like some bare metal wires are poking out of the
wires coming out of the screw terminal. I'm not sure what I'm seeing
here but if these metal wires are connected to the ignition wire, they
just have to touch anything and your ignition is killed.
To elaborate more on connectors: The problem with these screw terminals
is that they do not separate the electrical and mechanical connection.
An electrical connection (clamping) creates a stress point in the metal,
and any movement (vibration) focuses on this stress point using the rest
of the wire as a lever, quickly causing metal fatigue and unexpected and
unpredictable break of the wire. A good connector always has some way to
retain the wire upstream of the electrical connection, so that the
electrical connection point is absolutely free from any movement. (This
also applies to soldering: Any solder joint should be free from any
movement and vibration).
For connecting a lamp socket to your house wiring that screw terminal is
ok, because houses do not move or vibrate very often.
If you ever have a carb going bad and your engine starts to shake or
vibrate heavily, within a few minutes the wire will fall from the screw
terminal. When that happens, the wire will dangle down and if it touches
some metal it will kill the ignition.
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 24, 2012
My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am wondering
about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half of it and adding
a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent might be best
though. Any suggestions?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W
Newby: 35 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388801#388801
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tri gear socket installation
From: "fireflier" <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2012
Hello
Today I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a problem
and wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have overcome
it?
After taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I inserted the
gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the axle's in position against
angled bar with the axle center line on fuselage station 70 and the axle end
36.75' from the fuselage center line. With all this set up the socket flanges
are approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage.
I tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made very little
difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fuselage. I managed
to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fuselage underside to
ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in the build
manual.
I have attached some photos showing the gap between sockets and fuselage and also
the position of the socket tubes within the baggage bays when inserted.
Any comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated.
Many thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to the problems
I'm experiencing.
Kind regards
Donald
--------
Fireflier
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388820
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_axle_494.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_539.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_886.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>
Subject: tri gear socket installation
Date: Nov 25, 2012
How long are your sockets from the bolt hole, to bottom of the tube, at the
rear of the socket eg near the tail
Mine measure at 245mm (9.5 inches), perhaps yours are longer than they
should be.
My gap when installed was about 4mm.
Regards
craig
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electrics
From: "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Hello Peter,
If you want to remake those white-wire connections, I can supply you (for free)
with the correct crimp terminals (male & female) for that Rotax connector.
Cheers,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388904#388904
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Hi Donald,
1/2'' to 5/8'' gaps betwen the socket flange and the outer skin is not unus
ual, I could never work out where the variation came from ?
Most important is the ST 70 dimension.
Then ensure the track is true with the legs clamped to an angle straight ed
ge.Take measurements from tailplane torque tube ends to check this.
Then ensure the horizontal datum of the angle aligns with the aircrafts hor
izontal datum [ tailplane torque tube / wing spar bushes ].
Then check the lateral position from the aircrafts centre line [ also check
the positive camber of the axle shafts and adjust [ worsen] the side to si
de positioning to get the camber of the shafts nearer to each other.
Forget about closing up the gap between the socket flanges and the fuselage
skin.
If you can close up the gap [ dropping the fuselage ] without buggering up
any of the other parameters, well and good, otherwise go for it and use a t
hick Redux pad in the gap. I have slipped in some plywood shims to bulk out
the gap if it as large as you describe [ Redux is expensive, slivers of wo
od will be free !]
Other things I do different, the lay up of the socket to Rib 1, don't smear
Redux on the socket and do the lay up with Ampreg, do a HOT Redux lay up i
n 1 ply of Bid, 2'' onto each side of the Rib around the socket, peel ply a
nd let cure. Then do the lay ups as per Manual.
Do a hot Redux lay up on the outer face of the socket flange, peel ply etc,
before doing the 2 Bid lay up on to the skin. Do the hot Redux lay ups ont
o plastic sheet, wet out well, then slap it on like an elastoplast !
Ampreg doesn't stick too well to steel, and I don't like messing with two d
ifferent epoxy systems going wet on wet ?
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: fireflier <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 1:04
Subject: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation
Hello
Today I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a prob
lem
nd wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have
vercome it?
After taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I insert
ed
he gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the axle's in position aga
inst
ngled bar with the axle center line on fuselage station 70 and the axle end
6.75' from the fuselage center line. With all this set up the socket flang
es
re approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage.
I tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made very
ittle difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fuselage.
I
anaged to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fuselage undersi
de
o ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in the
uild manual.
I have attached some photos showing the gap between sockets and fuselage an
d
lso the position of the socket tubes within the baggage bays when inserted.
Any comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated.
Many thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to the
roblems I'm experiencing.
Kind regards
onald
--------
ireflier
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388820
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_axle_494.jpeg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpeg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_
539.jpeg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_886.j
pg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg
-========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Donald,
Obviously, writing a post after Nev I have little to add on how to do things right.
I did however have the same problem and in my case at least it turned out
to be faulty measurements. There are quite a few variables and any one of them
can knock the measurements off. My garage for instance has a drain in the middle
and the floors slope very slightly towards that. I ended up having to grind
the whole lot out again. The second time round the plates did fit against
the skin. It really is worth checking everything 10 times to avoid that.
See:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44767
Regards,
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388911#388911
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
On 11/25/2012 03:41 PM, jglazener wrote:
> Obviously, writing a post after Nev I have little to add on how to do
> things right. I did however have the same problem and in my case at
> least it turned out to be faulty measurements. There are quite a few
> variables and any one of them can knock the measurements off. My
> garage for instance has a drain in the middle and the floors slope
> very slightly towards that.
To avoid this problem I welded two vertical bars to my build craddle
with adjustable ends, so I could attach an artificial floor straight
edge to it, and adjust everything independantly from the floor. This
might be a solution for you if your floor is not perfectly even, or when
you use a movable build craddle.
Also make sure you end up with some degree of toe in on the axles, as
the aircraft weight and roll friction will push the wheels outward a
little. This prevents the problem that the tires wear prematurely on the
inboard side. (After 200 hours, I still have even wear on the tires,
never had to swap or reverse them).
> It really is worth checking everything 10 times to avoid that.
Yep, don't rush it. It is hard to readjust later on.
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake
graeme bird a crit :
>
> My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am wondering
about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half of it and
adding a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent might be best
though. Any suggestions?
>
Hi Graeme,
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_aerodyn_radia_en.php
http://contrails.free.fr/tunnel_en.php
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_air_inlets.php
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Cointe" <mcointe(at)free.fr>
Subject: starboard door
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Hi There all,
To-day flight was cut short because the starboard (probably badly secured)
departed from the ship 10 mn after takeoff. As we speak we don't know where
it grounded but at least on quite on a no-man's land. Luckily no other
damage and normal flying back and landing.
Has anyone a complete starboard door available for sale (best would be with
bronze window but we'll consider every proposal)?
Max Cointe
F-PMLH Europa_TriGear
Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours
mcointe(at)free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
Subject: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Graeme,
> My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am
> wondering about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half
of it
> and adding a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent
might be
> best though. Any suggestions?
I have for several years flown in cold and hot weather with Van's variable
shutter in front of approx. 50% of the radiator - see attached photo (the
photo was taken before I installed an oil thermostat, so I have no plates in
front of the oil cooler anymore). My 912ULS has 50/50 glycol/water, and I
have not experienced problems even on hot airfields. However, to be on the
safe side if flying much in hot summers, the shutter can be removed in 30
minutes for such seasonal flying, as this will allow more air to pass
through the radiator.
I purchased the shutter fra Van's Aircraft in the US, and the Bowden cable
with accessories from Aircraft Spruce.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
Subject: Handheld with external antenna
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Hi Max,
So sorry to read about your sudden cabriolet conversion.
Did you have a chance to test the Icom handheld with the external antenna
before this happened? If so, how did it work?
I have now purchased the AAE VHF-5T antenna, which I plan to fix vertically
to the fuselage inside skin on the right side behind the luggage bay
bulkhead (I have the transponder antenna on the left side). Any particular
recommendations (e.g. type of adhesive that you used).
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to be running
at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which would
get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running warmer? I
cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual.
I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for now.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 45 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388922#388922
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of
intake
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Graeme,
I always run with at least 50% of the radiator sealed off with duct tape
during the winter months down here in coldest (?) Kent on my monowheel/912S
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird
Sent: 25 November 2012 18:06
Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of
intake
Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to
be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which
would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running
warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual.
I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for
now.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 45 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388922#388922
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: K BURNS <kjburns(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
Donald,=0A-=0AThe build manual says:-=0A-"If necessary, to ensure that
the plate of the gear leg socket is against the side of the fuselage,move t
he=0Aaxles as required relative to the fuselage centreline keeping the axle
centres on FS70".=0A-=0ABy moving the legs in 1/2 an inch or so equaly o
n each side , you will close up the gap to a wedge shape, the manual also s
ugests the socket flanges can be adjusted to fit the profile better.=0A-
=0AMy fit was-close enougth-for an acceptable-redux filling, after ad
justing-the fuselage holes slightly, but it does appears that your legs n
eed to come together slightly-.=0A-=0A-=0AThere will be differences i
n exact positioning of the sockets due variations -to the elogation requi
red of the hole.=0A-=0ATwo-extra check measurement that I-found usefu
ll-were from a second angle iron ran through the cockpit, sat on the door
sills,pushed hard against the seat back, and dropped a plumbline from the
inboard end to find a measurement from the spar face reference points :-=0A
-Not e :- F S 70 is 2.25" aft of the forward face of the port spar=0A
-------------------------
-- 1.00 aft of the forward face of the Starboard spar.=0A-=0AMark up
the fuselage to get a measurement to transfer from your second angle iron /
-plumb line, stick a spirit level on the angle Iron to check it is all pa
rallel when setting up , and stand back an look at the job, making sure it
is all square...=0A-=0AAlso, make sure your build cradle is squared off o
n all corners, and can not move.=0A-=0AI set up a false floor with 3 laye
rs of 3/4 ply,screwed down onto a pallet, with a timber beam accross to scr
ew down and clamp on, you will end up spending days setting your measuremen
ts unless everything is fastened down solid.=0A-=0AFinaly, you can do a d
ry run by lifting the sockets and legs to a flush position ,an using the fi
rst wedge shaped ply brace, hold the assembly in possition , then look at t
he axle to see how far in it is sitting .=0A-=0AYou are trying to acheive
aligned axles on FS 70, within the factory height specified (prop clearanc
e)- 1/2 " or so different track width will make no significant difference
, and is the factory recomended solution per the manual.=0A-=0ARegards
=0A-=0AKevin=0A-=0A-=0A--=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A- =0A=0A_________
_______________________=0A From: fireflier <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>=0ATo:
europa-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 1:02=0ASubjec
t: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation=0A =0A--> Europa-List message
posted by: "fireflier" =0A=0AHello=0A=0AToday I
have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a problem and
wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have ov
ercome it?=0A=0AAfter taking my time setting everything up as per the build
manual I inserted the gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the ax
le's in position against angled bar with the axle center line on fuselage s
tation 70 and the axle end 36.75' from the fuselage center line.- With al
l this set up the socket flanges are approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage.=0A
=0AI tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made v
ery little difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fusela
ge.- I managed to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fusela
ge underside to ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm
quoted in the build manual.=0A=0AI have attached some photos showing the g
ap between sockets and fuselage and also the position of the socket tubes w
ithin the baggage bays when inserted.=0A=0AAny comments or solutions to my
problem would be much appreciated.=0A=0AMany thanks for taking the time in
trying to help me find a solution to the problems I'm experiencing.=0A=0AKi
nd regards=0ADonald=0A=0A--------=0AFireflier=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388
820=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/por
t_axle_494.jpeg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpe
g=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage
_bay_539.jpeg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188
.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_b
ay_886.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg=0A
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Nev, Donald, and others having tri gear concerns.
Nev is right that the gap is really not that much of a concern
especially at 5-8 mm. Organizing the project for efficiency of work
comes with practice.
The adjustment of the height of the fuselage to gear plane is one
excellent way to make and adjustment to the fit. Just don't get too
carried away, keep it close to the vertical distance in the book, which
keeps the tail from being too low (nose gear higher means banging it
more often) or too high which increases the camber angle making tire
wear increase.
I do bend the flanges a bit to allow me not to have to use as much
Redux. Then just bond it in.
Unlike Nev, I prefer to glue in the cleaned and dimpled metal sockets
first and allow to cure, then put in Rib one the next day. If working
alone, I put in both rib ones and let them partially cure, getting a
long coffee break. If working with an assistant, we return when the
ribs are firm and apply Aeropoxy or Ampreg flox to fill the gaps at the
walls and smooth our Redux job a bit and apply more Redux to the leg
face for a good bond and follow with the number one layups. If we are
making good time, we lay on rib two with Redux then take a quick lunch
break. We come back and while the Redux is a bit sticky but the rib is
in firmly, we lay in more flox and glass it up. Then I allow it to cure
with a bit of peel ply. That makes for a really long day though.
However, if you're not on with your glassing MOJO, as the kids say, then
I do rib two the next day. Of course you can gather that the one and
two ribs are carefully cut to a tight fit and ready to install before
hand. In a perfect world, the next day I do the trimming of the three
and four ribs and install them. Your back will really need a break when
done. Then take the gear out and glass in the bottom.
If working alone, and if the top is on already, work gets slowed down a
bit, so one rib a day is normally the rule. It is getting winter time,
so heating of the project is necessary so it also tends to slow the
project a bit.
>From start to finish, one week to get the plane level and set, ribs in
and legs on. That leaves the next week to get the wheels and brakes in
and operating, and the plane rolling. Week three is needed for the
wheel pants and such. Then you need a much deserved break but only a
short one, as there is more to do. Getting the monowheel hole closed up
and figure how to get a lower access hole installed and fuel lines
cleaned up and accessories in that big old cockpit module hole.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: Neville Eyre<mailto:neveyre(at)aol.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation
Hi Donald,
1/2'' to 5/8'' gaps betwen the socket flange and the outer skin is not
unusual, I could never work out where the variation came from ?
Most important is the ST 70 dimension.
Then ensure the track is true with the legs clamped to an angle
straight edge.Take measurements from tailplane torque tube ends to check
this.
Then ensure the horizontal datum of the angle aligns with the
aircrafts horizontal datum [ tailplane torque tube / wing spar bushes ].
Then check the lateral position from the aircrafts centre line [ also
check the positive camber of the axle shafts and adjust [ worsen] the
side to side positioning to get the camber of the shafts nearer to each
other.
Forget about closing up the gap between the socket flanges and the
fuselage skin.
If you can close up the gap [ dropping the fuselage ] without
buggering up any of the other parameters, well and good, otherwise go
for it and use a thick Redux pad in the gap. I have slipped in some
plywood shims to bulk out the gap if it as large as you describe [ Redux
is expensive, slivers of wood will be free !]
Other things I do different, the lay up of the socket to Rib 1, don't
smear Redux on the socket and do the lay up with Ampreg, do a HOT Redux
lay up in 1 ply of Bid, 2'' onto each side of the Rib around the socket,
peel ply and let cure. Then do the lay ups as per Manual.
Do a hot Redux lay up on the outer face of the socket flange, peel ply
etc, before doing the 2 Bid lay up on to the skin. Do the hot Redux lay
ups onto plastic sheet, wet out well, then slap it on like an
elastoplast !
Ampreg doesn't stick too well to steel, and I don't like messing with
two different epoxy systems going wet on wet ?
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: fireflier <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
To: europa-list
Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 1:04
Subject: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation
>
Hello
Today I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a
problem
and wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they
have
overcome it?
After taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I
inserted
the gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the axle's in position
against
angled bar with the axle center line on fuselage station 70 and the axle
end
36.75' from the fuselage center line. With all this set up the socket
flanges
are approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage.
I tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made
very
little difference to the distance between socket flanges and the
fuselage. I
managed to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fuselage
underside
to ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in
the
build manual.
I have attached some photos showing the gap between sockets and fuselage
and
also the position of the socket tubes within the baggage bays when
inserted.
Any comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated.
Many thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to
the
problems I'm experiencing.
Kind regards
Donald
--------
Fireflier
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388820
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of
intake
Date: Nov 25, 2012
Photo E-mail View slideshow
|
Download images
According to Rotax there is not a technical minimum cylinder temp but I
agree that we know that a warmer cylinder will be more efficient and the
crankcase and gearbox will not harbor water in the case.
The oil thermostat is one way to get up the oil temp. I have tried to
make a simple rear flap to close up the back but you would not believe
the pressure coming out of the rear of those radiators and the duct
suction pulling on the other side of the flap. A moveable cowl flap
will work, but then we're talking repaint of the cowl. So how do we get
the glycol temp up? Tape over 1/3 of the glycol cooler is a start.
Next is making a removable metal air dam in front of the glycol cooler,
but that is not adjustable. So what is needed is an adjustable flap
that can be set from the cockpit for those warmer winter days, spring
and fall operations or high altitude cruise operations.
Those adjustable slotted cooler shutters are a solution. Unless you
need every bit of cooling air in the summer like I do here in Florida.
Mark Ferkin of High wing LLC (Kitfox guy of fame) makes a shutter for
the Rotax coolers. It doesn't work well for our setup but the concept
works.
Van's aircraft has the slotted flap as addressed above and used on other
Northern Europa's but it does block the air needed for summer options.
For oil cooling, I have installed the oil thermostat and it is very
convenient and automatic so I'm waiting for it to fail...
I really have only one idea for a moveable Europa style XS coolers with
a two inch drop of the oil cooler. If you have one of my cockpit
heaters be sure to leave a cutout for the heater or the cockpit heat
gets shut off. See below:
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Just a simple hinge setup with a flapper door to block the air
coming out of the glycol cooler and pivoted near the center to reduce
pull and hold forces. An oil cooler thermostat takes care of the oil
temps.
I really thought this would work but the force to hold the flap
shut against the air outflow from the coolers (and draw of the cowl
ramp) is considerable for a hinged flap at the leading edge.
----- Original Message -----
From: graeme bird<mailto:graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:06 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking
some of intake
>
Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a
problem to be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at
take off which would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the
engine is running warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the
Rotax manual.
I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see
for now.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 45 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2012
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
Subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some
of intake
On 11/25/2012 07:06 PM, graeme bird wrote:
> Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a
> problem to be running at 80deg.
There are a few reasons to keep the engine temperature higher:
1) Wear of the engine. Different parts of the engine expand at different
rates when the engine gets warmer. Ideally, you have the engine running
always at the same temperature, so all the parts wear in for exactly
that specific temperature, and fit nicely together around that specific
temperature, without too much friction of leakage. If the temperature
changes, friction in some parts increases, and other parts become too
sloppy. So, aim to keep the engine always wearing at the same
temperature. For that reason, I always keep my engine at 115C and avoid
wear at other temperatures. 80C could also if you manage to keep the
engine running at that temperature during the summer, but then there are
still a couple of other reasons to aim for a higher temperature:
2) Efficiency. The engine gets its energy from burning fuel, more
exactly from producing heat, the temperature difference between the
pressure of the air before and after the combustion. Ideally, there
would be no losses. Unfortunately, we have to cool the engine, and by
cooling we take precious energy away. The more we cool, the more we harm
the efficiency. So to get the most bang for the buck, you will want to
run the engine as hot as possible... without melting some parts. For the
Rotax, this sweet point is close to 115C, which is a safe distance from
135C where the cylinder heads become soft and start to deform.
3) Condensation. Byproduct of combustion is water. Part of the
combustion gasses including the water is escaping between the pistons
and cylinder walls, anything below 100C will condensate this water. So.
the condensation in the engine is not just something like the
condensation in the fuel tank, but is actually produced at a high rate
during your flight. (Don't underestimate the amount of these so called
blow-by gasses; these gasses are actually responsible for transporting
the oil back from the crankcase into the oil tank). If you run the
engine at 80C you will collect a lot of water in the engine, and due to
other substances in the fuel, the water will have a low pH and eat away
the engine. If your engine only gets hot during take off, it is not
sufficient to boil away all the water, and the water collected during
the cruise will remain in the engine until the next take off, which
might be a long time away, especially in the winter. So, it is best to
keep the oil temp during the cruise above 100C to avoid collecting too
much water.
(You won't find the water at the bottom of the oil tank except in
extreme cases, as the oil is formulated to keep a lot of water in
suspension, but still this suspended water is corrosive and also worsens
lubrication.)
Frans
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2012
From: mau11 <mau11(at)free.fr>
Subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some
of intake
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Cointe" <mcointe(at)free.fr>
Subject: Handheld with external antenna
Date: Nov 26, 2012
Hi Svein,
Haven=92t done much on this. No special rec, but I=92m very curious to
ear how
your stuff works=85
Max Cointe
F-PMLH Europa_TriGear
Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours
mcointe(at)free.fr
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Sidsel &
Svein
Johnsen
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 25 novembre 2012 18:53
=C0 : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Handheld with external antenna
Hi Max,
So sorry to read about your sudden cabriolet conversion.
Did you have a chance to test the Icom handheld with the external
antenna
before this happened? If so, how did it work?
I have now purchased the AAE VHF-5T antenna, which I plan to fix
vertically
to the fuselage inside skin on the right side behind the luggage bay
bulkhead (I have the transponder antenna on the left side). Any
particular
recommendations (e.g. type of adhesive that you used).
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2012
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 23%...
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists
and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
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I also maintain a full
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event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive
data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
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ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each
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If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tri gear socket installation
From: Donald Cameron <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2012
Hi all
Many thanks for all your replies much appreciated and has put my mind to res
t that all appears normal with the installation of my tri gear sockets.
Not had a chance to go back and re check everything again but will check ove
r everything another few times before taking the plunge & bonding in the soc
kets.
Many thanks for all the comments & suggestions on doing the rest of the proc
ess as well, they are all very useful and gives me different options to comp
lete the tri gear installation.
Kind regards
Donald
Sent from my iPhone