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Europa-Archive.digest.vol-mk
April 14, 2015 - June 19, 2015

> __ > Le 11/04/2015 18:44, William Daniell a crit : >> I have seen searching through the list that there are some >> alternatives to the major surgery required for Mod 75 and 76. >> For example I saw some correspondence between Raimo and Bob >> Gowing connecting servo to the tail plane torque tube using a >> bracket. I assume that the service is mounted on a fiberglass >> bracket mounted on the floor .... >> Could I prevail on anyone who has who has an alternative to the >> official mods and which does not require major surgery send me a >> pic please. >> Many thanks >> Will >> William Daniell >> LONGPORT >> +57 310 295 0744 >> * >> >> >> * > > * > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > onics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2015
Subject: Re: Autopilot servo instalation
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Nigel perfect thanks. Thank makes life a lot easier that than changing the cross ways control tube. Do you see any reason why the bracket would have to be steel...for example could it be composite provided that it was sufficiently strong/well made? Is there a similar option for the aileron servo - ie one that doesn't require the bracket on the torque tube? Perhaps attached to the base of the joystick. Thanks again Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:11 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk < nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote: > Bud, Will, I have attached a couple of drawings and a picture of the UK > mod application for the scheme that Bud described FYI > > Nigel > > > On 13/04/2015 20:39, Bud Yerly wrote: > > Yep. Bob Berube first showed me and it is simple. I use 2 in tube cut > in half with a drove lug or post welded on for MW-4 attached. Put 3/32 > silicone cowl seal in the tube and clamp it on. I prefer this if there i s > no access in the aft end. > > Bud > > *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID* > On Apr 12, 2015 10:18 PM, William Daniell > wrote: > Bud > Does this mean that you put a clamp on the main torque tube? > Will > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > Alan, > Nice clean job. > I prefer not to run a thin wall one inch tube that far without an idler i n > the center. However, the pitch system only needs a couple of pounds of > pressure when out of trim, and when the stab is trimmed neutral, very > little pressure is necessary to move the stab. We design our systems for > the worse case scenario, that is, full trim up the the max torque of the > trim motor and the bending moment of the thin wall tubing has to be capab le > of taking the load plus a rather large safety factor (since it is a contr ol > system) without bending or flexing. If the trim tube should bend, it can > jamb the flight control. > > I prefer to put the trim motor where you did, but make a 3/2 ratio arm to > drive the tube via a tube clamp. > > However, to keep a short drive tube, I would recommend installing the new > light weight servos behind the mass balance post using a two inch extensi on > from the torque tube arm (there are two holes there anyway to mount .016 > steel arms to). Use a 1/2 inch with .049 wall for the drive tube (like t he > aileron tubes). The length of the tube should be about 2 feet. > > Regards, > Bud Yerly > > *From:* Alain Chabert > *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2015 1:05 PM > *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Autopilot servo instalation > > Hello, > Look at the solution I adopted from 330 hours and is much simpler than th e > proposed mod. > Regards > > *Alain CHABERT* > > > Le 11/04/2015 18:44, William Daniell a =C3=A9crit : > > I have seen searching through the list that there are some alternatives > to the major surgery required for Mod 75 and 76. > > For example I saw some correspondence between Raimo and Bob Gowing > connecting servo to the tail plane torque tube using a bracket. I assume > that the service is mounted on a fiberglass bracket mounted on the floor > .... > > Could I prevail on anyone who has who has an alternative to the official > mods and which does not require major surgery send me a pic please. > > Many thanks > > Will > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > > * > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > onics.com <http://onics.com> > ww.matronics.com/contribution <http://ww.matronics.com/contribution> > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2015
From: trevannan <roger(at)trevannan.wanadoo.co.uk>
Subject: Might be of interest
Hi All I built a mobile T hanger a few years ago, in the hope of renting a field nearer to my home, this has not happened. I am at a lovely strip with good hanger and very friendly owners , but too far away. With their cooperation I have put the T hanger there rather than sell it. The two wing boxes are detachable and movable on a separate trailer, the main body is jacked up and the wheels put on and is towable behind my car. I have an electric winch to pull the plane in after removing the tail feathers. The solar panel keeps the plane and winch batteries topped up. There is another access door by the tail. I thought it might be of interest. Roger G-BWIJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2015
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Autopilot servo instalation
I can see no reason why a composite bracket could not work provided it was well made. I would suggest two "question mark" (?) shaped mouldings back to back to ensure that the laminates are continuous (i.e. don't bond a flat piece onto a curved piece). My first choice though, would be tig welded steel. With regards to aileron servo, I did fabricate a 2024 alloy bracket which was bonded and countersunk-screwed into the flat back-face of the P1 control yoke (prior to assembly of the control system) and driven by the sevo sitting under the seat via short pushrod in front of the seat. If you have already constructed the under-seat controls, then your options are limited. Nigel On 14/04/2015 13:06, William Daniell wrote: > Nigel > perfect thanks. > Thank makes life a lot easier that than changing the cross ways > control tube. > Do you see any reason why the bracket would have to be steel...for > example could it be composite provided that it was sufficiently > strong/well made? > > Is there a similar option for the aileron servo - ie one that doesn't > require the bracket on the torque tube? Perhaps attached to the base > of the joystick. > Thanks again > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:11 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk > nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>> wrote: > > Bud, Will, I have attached a couple of drawings and a picture of > the UK mod application for the scheme that Bud described FYI > > Nigel > > > On 13/04/2015 20:39, Bud Yerly wrote: >> Yep. Bob Berube first showed me and it is simple. I use 2 in >> tube cut in half with a drove lug or post welded on for MW-4 >> attached. Put 3/32 silicone cowl seal in the tube and clamp it >> on. I prefer this if there is no access in the aft end. >> >> Bud >> >> /Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/ >> On Apr 12, 2015 10:18 PM, William Daniell >> >> wrote: >> Bud >> Does this mean that you put a clamp on the main torque tube? >> Will >> >> >> William Daniell >> LONGPORT >> +57 310 295 0744 >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Bud Yerly > > wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Nice clean job. >> I prefer not to run a thin wall one inch tube that far >> without an idler in the center. However, the pitch system >> only needs a couple of pounds of pressure when out of trim, >> and when the stab is trimmed neutral, very little pressure is >> necessary to move the stab. We design our systems for the >> worse case scenario, that is, full trim up the the max torque >> of the trim motor and the bending moment of the thin wall >> tubing has to be capable of taking the load plus a rather >> large safety factor (since it is a control system) without >> bending or flexing. If the trim tube should bend, it can >> jamb the flight control. >> I prefer to put the trim motor where you did, but make a 3/2 >> ratio arm to drive the tube via a tube clamp. >> However, to keep a short drive tube, I would recommend >> installing the new light weight servos behind the mass >> balance post using a two inch extension from the torque tube >> arm (there are two holes there anyway to mount .016 steel >> arms to). Use a 1/2 inch with .049 wall for the drive tube >> (like the aileron tubes). The length of the tube should be >> about 2 feet. >> Regards, >> Bud Yerly >> *From:* Alain Chabert >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2015 1:05 PM >> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Autopilot servo instalation >> Hello, >> Look at the solution I adopted from 330 hours and is much >> simpler than the proposed mod. >> Regards >> >> *Alain CHABERT* >> >> >> __ >> Le 11/04/2015 18:44, William Daniell a crit : >>> I have seen searching through the list that there are some >>> alternatives to the major surgery required for Mod 75 and 76. >>> For example I saw some correspondence between Raimo and Bob >>> Gowing connecting servo to the tail plane torque tube using >>> a bracket. I assume that the service is mounted on a >>> fiberglass bracket mounted on the floor .... >>> Could I prevail on anyone who has who has an alternative to >>> the official mods and which does not require major surgery >>> send me a pic please. >>> Many thanks >>> Will >>> William Daniell >>> LONGPORT >>> +57 310 295 0744 >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> onics.com <http://onics.com> >> ww.matronics.com/contribution <http://ww.matronics.com/contribution> >> >> * >> * >> >> >> * > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Might be of interest
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2015
Roger, Hats off to what seems to me to have been a very economical solution to keeping your plane fully assembled and out of the weatherthe solar panel takes the cakeand I see your guard dog provides active security! F. > On Apr 14, 2015, at 6:25 AM, trevannan wrote: > > Hi All > > I built a mobile T hanger a few years ago, in the hope of renting a field nearer to my home, this has not happened. I am at a lovely strip with good hanger and very friendly owners , but too far away. With their cooperation I have put the T hanger there rather than sell it. The two wing boxes are detachable and movable on a separate trailer, the main body is jacked up and the wheels put on and is towable behind my car. I have an electric winch to pull the plane in after removing the tail feathers. The solar panel keeps the plane and winch batteries topped up. There is another access door by the tail. > I thought it might be of interest. > Roger G-BWIJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2015
Subject: Re: Autopilot servo instalation. Sun 'n Fun preview.
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
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Subject: Mounting cameras externally
From: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2015
Has anybody mounted a GoPro camera (or similar) externally on their Europa? Without getting into the intricacies of approval regimes, I'm interested to know where, how and any results! Regards, Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440880#440880 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Mounting cameras externally
Date: Apr 15, 2015
Hi I haven't but what I can tell you is that the sticky mounts work great. I have one on my helmet for sky diving and I easily hit do 150 mph in free fall. The free fly guys go even faster and they don't have any problems either. What the mounts don't like is being knocked, impact side loads will shear them off pretty easily. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2015
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi>
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
Hello, I have sticky mounts on the port side wing tip, on the port side tailplane tip, and one on the fin tip. So far no problems and I still have my GoPo. Remote control works fine via iPad. I do not like prop blur so much but havent tested those ND filters yet. I assume they are not usable outside cockpit. Cheers, Raimo OH-XRT allekirjoitus 15.4.2015, 20:15, Paul McAllister kirjoitti: > > Hi > > I haven't but what I can tell you is that the sticky mounts work great. I > have one on my helmet for sky diving and I easily hit do 150 mph in free > fall. The free fly guys go even faster and they don't have any problems > either. What the mounts don't like is being knocked, impact side loads will > shear them off pretty easily. > > Paul > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Europa Trips
Dave, I find myself now caught up in domestic matters on the Wyke W/E so will not be able to go personally, but will put out a query on the Europa net to see who else is going and whether there is the possibility of organising a group to extend a few days before or after. I had personally thought that a day in Denmark possibly at Stauning and a day just into Sweden at Hoganas would be good. Regards, David On 2015-04-08 14:11, david park wrote: > Hoping fly to Wyke and interested in any extension. > Regards Dave Park G-LDVO > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 8 Apr 2015, at 09:57, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote: > > Roland, I am not aware of any Brits going to Friedrichshafen, but that doesn't rule out the possibility. I attach the Club trips program for this year. You are welcome to join in any of them It is sad that Texel have chosen same date as LAA Rally - it will inevitably cut down UK participation. > > For anyone who has seen a previous version of the Trips schedule PLEASE NOTE DATE OF ITALIAN TRIP IS NOW JUNE 6-14th > > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > On 2015-04-08 09:23, Bob Harrison wrote: > > > Hi! Roland, > Yes, keeping the centre of Gravity Forward makes sense since loads such as > fuel baggage etc move it back anyway !. > Ivor has mothballed his plane for the season due to hangar problems at Lydd > so he is going onto my insurance to keep his Hours in compliance. > We intend doing some smaller trips this season for that purpose (mine too!) > We aren't planning on AERO-fare in Friedrichshafen this year, no spare cash > anyway ! Hope to make it to Texel though but it clashes with the LAA Rally ( > I think?) I would think the Europa Group would notice your question but I'm > copying this message in to David Joyce who is mostly involved in trips and > tours, perhaps he will answer you?......David ??? > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roland > Sent: 08 April 2015 08:04 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: 912S Starter on a 914 > > > Good morning Bob! > > Yes, absolutely ready for the flying season and hope to meet you on Texel > again this year :-) BTW: will anyone of you Europa folks be at the AERO-fare > in Friedrichshafen 15th-18th April? > > Moving the battery in front of the cockpit makes perfect sense, in spite of > moving forward the CG as well. I was tempted to do this but missed the > chance when I installed my whole new cockpit panel and therefore had the > complete electrics and interior taken apart. > > I just enjoy flying at the moment.... > > Best wishes > Roland > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440422#440422 [1] > > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ics.com [2] > .matronics.com/contribution [3] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440422#440422 [2] http://ics.com [3] http://matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Wyke and possible extension into Scandinavia
Sorry that I sent out a message intended for Dave Park on the general net. It would be good to hear from anyone contemplating going to the 29-31 May Nordic Fly In from UK or other southern parts, and particularly from anyone interested in extending the trip for a few days to head into Denmark or Sweden. I have a couple of interested parties and will happily pass on details to anyone who might want to join a small group. Regards, David Joyce, Europa Club Trips Organiser ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
Date: Apr 16, 2015
Hi Rick, I have a sticky GoPro mount on the port underwing aileron inspection perplex panel. Works well, with the remote control and remains fixed so far. We did try putting a safety wire from the GoPro to one of the bolts attachin g the panel to the wing and that worked well but haven't used it for a while . Have a look at; > https://vimeo.com/78806298 Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 16/04/2015, at 2:37 am, Rick Moss wrote: > > > Has anybody mounted a GoPro camera (or similar) externally on their Europa ? Without getting into the intricacies of approval regimes, I'm interested t o know where, how and any results! > > Regards, > > Rick > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440880#440880 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com>
Subject: Re: Wyke and possible extension into Scandinavia
Date: Apr 16, 2015
Thanks for reply, will lookout for any more news. Dave G-LDVO Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Apr 2015, at 21:15, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote: > > Sorry that I sent out a message intended for Dave Park on the general net. It would be good to hear from anyone contemplating going to the 29-31 May N ordic Fly In from UK or other southern parts, and particularly from anyone i nterested in extending the trip for a few days to head into Denmark or Swede n. I have a couple of interested parties and will happily pass on details to anyone who might want to join a small group. > > Regards, David Joyce, Europa Club Trips Organiser > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 16, 2015
I replaced my port aileron crank inspection cover with a metal one and put a 1/4-20 bolt on there that fits the tripod adapter available for the Gopro. Works great. Troy Maynor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440924#440924 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
From: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2015
All useful, thanks! Do you notice any handling/speed difference with it fitted (or stall characteristics)? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440925#440925 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 16, 2015
I didn't. ..but I wasn't looking ....just having a good time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440933#440933 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Subject: OR5 slot query
Date: Apr 16, 2015
OK, so Ive spent the day fiddling with the flap pushrod adjusting its length and the angle of the actuator plate FL21, and adding a small stop on one side as advised by Bud Yerly, and have finished on the happy note that the outriggers are now staying up much better when the flaps are retracted and that both flaps are travelling 26.7 degrees from retracted positions that match the wing root template well. However, the bolt that slides in OR5 is still not behaving as the manual would like. Starboard side, the bolt is about half-way along the slot in OR5 when the flaps are down, but port side the bolt has barely moved from the forward end of the slot with the flaps fully down. The retracted positions of the flaps appear to be the same; they have the same travel. What can I do to make the bolt move further along the slot in the port OR5? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Rick, Absolutely none at all regarding handling and speed degradation. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 17/04/2015, at 2:35 am, Rick Moss wrote: > > > All useful, thanks! > > Do you notice any handling/speed difference with it fitted (or stall characteristics)? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440925#440925 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
From: "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Hi Rick, what angle/ aspect do you want to capture in flight? I have mounted two Mobius mini-cams under my Europa (Classic) fuselage, pointing down/sideways and left/right at 45 degrees for wildlife counts in Kenya, works a treat. Plus extra batteries gives 5 hours on the cameras. (Mobius great for this sort of thing, better than GoPro in many ways). This site has always refused to attach my pictures, I wont even try now, but can send you off-thread if I have your email address. mine lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440943#440943 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mounting cameras externally
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Hi Richard, I would do be grateful for some of the pics! I also fly mobius's (great value!), and would be very interested to hear how you added battery life. Many thanks, Pete A239 stil in a pile of parts, C-IPWZ flying and having a ball.... > On Apr 17, 2015, at 3:18 AM, Richard Lamprey wrote: > > > Hi Rick, what angle/ aspect do you want to capture in flight? I have mounted two Mobius mini-cams under my Europa (Classic) fuselage, pointing down/sideways and left/right at 45 degrees for wildlife counts in Kenya, works a treat. Plus extra batteries gives 5 hours on the cameras. (Mobius great for this sort of thing, better than GoPro in many ways). This site has always refused to attach my pictures, I wont even try now, but can send you off-thread if I have your email address. mine lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440943#440943 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: XS exhaust down pipe crack
From: "fireflier" <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Hi Whilst flying today my exhaust down pipe on no 4 cylinder developed a crack as shown in the attached photo. I have done a search of the list and found one further history of this type of failure on g-tern. This was back in 2012 but there wasn't any conclusive answers as to what has caused this type of failure. My exhaust is a CKT engineering system fitted to a rotax 912uls with woodcomp sr3000 vp prop, europa XS. The exhaust system has had approx 30 hrs use before this failure. I have sent the owner of G-tern a PM through this forum to see if he can Give me any further information as to possible cause and what soloution's he has had to rectify the problem he had back kn 2012. If anyone else could help or provide any possible answers to this type of failure, it would be much appreciated. Many thanks Donald G-PUPY -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440956#440956 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_787.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: First Fueling
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Gents Who among you mono-builders can remember how much fuel was needed when introduced to our beloved rotomolded fuel tanks for the first timein order for fuel to flow thru the selector valve (located per build manual) and thence aft to assorted pumps and filters? I=99ve put in 5 (US) gallons and can get nary a drop out of my gascolator which is mounted aft of the baggage bay and considerably lower than the main and reserve fittings on the selector valve. (Both main and reserve fuel drains function fine, and the aircraft is sitting on it=99s main LG and tail wheel.) A corollary question is: how much unusable fuel is carried aboard a mono with standard tank? Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Fueling
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Fred, To answer your first question: I don=99t know as it will depend on your aircraft. BUT, you will have to add more than 5 gallons, which is just about enough to cover the hump. You will need to add sufficient fuel to a level well above the fuel selector valve. With a monowheel sitting on its tail, probably more than half a tank. Once you reach a level over the valve it should fill the remainder of the line down to the pumps. Hope these tidbits help. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On Apr 17, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Fred Klein wrote: Gents Who among you mono-builders can remember how much fuel was needed when introduced to our beloved rotomolded fuel tanks for the first timein order for fuel to flow thru the selector valve (located per build manual) and thence aft to assorted pumps and filters? I=99ve put in 5 (US) gallons and can get nary a drop out of my gascolator which is mounted aft of the baggage bay and considerably lower than the main and reserve fittings on the selector valve. (Both main and reserve fuel drains function fine, and the aircraft is sitting on it=99s main LG and tail wheel.) A corollary question is: how much unusable fuel is carried aboard a mono with standard tank? Fred <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: First Fueling
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Thanks BobI'm taking baby steps w/ the volatile fluidsBT W, here on my island, I can get ethanol-free fuel at marinasF. > On Apr 17, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Fred, > > To answer your first question: I don=99t know as it will depend on your aircraft. > > BUT, you will have to add more than 5 gallons, which is just about enough to cover the hump. You will need to add sufficient fuel to a level well above the fuel selector valve. With a monowheel sitting on its tail, probably more than half a tank. Once you reach a level over the valve it should fill the remainder of the line down to the pumps. > > Hope these tidbits help. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger(at)mac.com > > On Apr 17, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Fred Klein > wrote: > > Gents > > Who among you mono-builders can remember how much fuel was neededwhen introduced to our beloved rotomolded fuel tanks for the first timein order for fuel to flow thru the selector valve (located per build manual) and thence aft to assorted pumps and filters? > > I=99ve put in 5 (US) gallons and can get nary a drop out of my gascolator which is mounted aft of the baggage bay and considerably lower than the main and reserve fittings on the selector valve. > > (Both main and reserve fuel drains function fine, and the aircraft is sitting on it=99s main LG and tail wheel.) > > A corollary question is: how much unusable fuel is carried aboard a mono with standard tank? > > Fred > > > class="">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > class="">http://forums.matronics.com > class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Fueling
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2015
Fred, Nothing wrong with baby steps and gasoline (of any flavor). Take it easy and careful. You are a lucky fellow to be able to find ethanol-free fuel. We have a marina on Lewisville Lake, but you have to drive up in a boat to get fuel there. I generally stick with 100LL and accept that I=99ll have to change the oil and check the plugs. Bob On Apr 17, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Fred Klein wrote: Thanks BobI'm taking baby steps w/ the volatile fluidsBT W, here on my island, I can get ethanol-free fuel at marinasF. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Subject: Re: First Fueling
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Fred=2C Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull ai r well enough for some brands. If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallo ns on the ground=2C will it do it in the air? Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry=2C flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gasc olator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c f or ever=2C but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is=2C t he bowl outside=2C below the belly. That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides=2C water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion=2C on one side then switch and hope fully keep running. Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. My two cents. Bud Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID On Apr 17=2C 2015 8:39 PM=2C Fred Klein wrote: Gents Who among you mono-builders can remember how much fuel was neededw hen introduced to our beloved rotomolded fuel tanks for the first time in order for fuel to flow thru the selector valve (located per build manual) and thence aft to assorted pumps and filters? I=99ve put in 5 (US) gallons and can get nary a drop out of my gascol ator which is mounted aft of the baggage bay and considerably lower than th e main and reserve fittings on the selector valve. (Both main and reserve fuel drains function fine=2C and the aircraft is sit ting on it=99s main LG and tail wheel.) A corollary question is: how much unusable fuel is carried aboard a mono wi th standard tank? Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Hi Donald, I got your message and have sent you a pm. If you don't receive it please let me know and I'll try again (I'm not an expert on this messaging thing!) Cheers, Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440966#440966 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack
From: "fireflier" <fireflier(at)btinternet.com>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Hi Jon Got your pm, thanks and I have replied some interesting points you raise and very similar symptoms to yours. Many thanks Donald G-PUPY -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440969#440969 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Subject: Sun N Fun 2015
Hi Jim & Heather, Please add me to the list of those attending S&F. I w ill be arriving via airline into Tampa on Monday evening and departing T hursday evening. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Cell: 702.682.0219 Regards, Erich TrombleyClassic Mono 914N28ET ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5532671b1b02a671b1f00st01vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: First Fueling
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Budyou wrote: > > Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull air well enough for some brands. Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two (in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side.. > If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it do it in the air? An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer =9Con the ground=9D. > > Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly. With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow? > > That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolators I confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on this list and their apparent widespread use. > Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. I am indeed aware of that fact. > Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then switch and hopefully keep running. Exactly my intention... > > Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent? > > My two cents. Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless Many thanks, Fred PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XS exhaust down pipe crack
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
looks like a manufacturing defect to me. Loop weld has thinned the metal too much. Get on the the manufacturers. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440973#440973 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Cointe (Free)" <mcointe(at)free.fr>
Subject: XS exhaust down pipe crack
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Hi Donald, FYI we had a comparable crack on our MCR. This was due to a rupture of a bolt of fixation under the engine. Don't know if it helps but just have a look how the engine is maintained. Remember also what was the level of vibration at low rotation and how the engines topped... Max Cointe mcointe(at)free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 540 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de fireflier Envoy: samedi 18 avril 2015 00:52 : europa-list(at)matronics.com Objet: Europa-List: XS exhaust down pipe crack --> Hi Whilst flying today my exhaust down pipe on no 4 cylinder developed a crack as shown in the attached photo. I have done a search of the list and found one further history of this type of failure on g-tern. This was back in 2012 but there wasn't any conclusive answers as to what has caused this type of failure. My exhaust is a CKT engineering system fitted to a rotax 912uls with woodcomp sr3000 vp prop, europa XS. The exhaust system has had approx 30 hrs use before this failure. I have sent the owner of G-tern a PM through this forum to see if he can Give me any further information as to possible cause and what soloution's he has had to rectify the problem he had back kn 2012. If anyone else could help or provide any possible answers to this type of failure, it would be much appreciated. Many thanks Donald G-PUPY -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440956#440956 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_787.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Europaowners.org website
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Does anyone know if the europaowners.org web site is still open to post build pictures? I've registered on the site but I can't find a link to create a new build. Many thanks Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440975#440975 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Further to the above, I'm now at the stage of fitting the tailplane torque tube but contrary to my first post it appears the new pre-drilled black bushes are too short giving a total of nearly 12mm of end float. I've taken some dimensions noted in the attached. I've sent a query to Europa. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440977#440977 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/torque_tube_314.doc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: First Fueling
Date: Apr 18, 2015
Fred, I recall your non standard engine, but am confident in the quality of your testing and evaluation. I don't intend to start a gascolator war, because they are a fine piece of equipment for tractors, metal high wing aircraft with no prime pumps and constant water problems or aircraft with low wings and the gascolator installed and tested with a thirty year track record like a Piper. They are fine for the aircraft with tank drains, and long runs of line that fill with water while sitting. I prefer Andair's gascolators as they work well up to high pressure, seal well, but they are not a visible junk trap. His filters are built into the unit and replaceable. On the ones we've installed in RVs, we put them on the engine side of the aux fuel pump and have had no problems. His pumps are great also. You=99re A&P friend is correct in having a high volume / low pressure pump feed the engine pressure pumps. The Facet pump indeed sucks well. (So does a Piersburg). On the initial installation of fuel injected engines, we used to have to have a header tank. Auto and Marine experience now shows a primer pump at the tank bottom level, will feed the volume needed. However, the volume of the high pressure pumps must be satisfied and proper plumbing to prevent circular flow when one pump fails. Your EFI manufacturer should have that information. As you know, autos now have the high pressure pump in the fuel tank and run pressure lines forward to the engine with the regulator after the fuel rail which prevents starvation and priming problems. Problem with our little aircraft is the fuel selector has to be forward of the pumps because they are not normally pressure tested and submerged fuel pumps are not possible. You probably have already reviewed SDS for their fuel system installation notes, but if you haven't: www.sdsefi.com<http://www.sdsefi.com/>. They really helped us with an RV as well as the Jason Parker engines. Their stuff works. See their cute little surge tank in their tech section. Small and affordable. Cleaning the fuel line used to be done with denatured alcohol but since auto fuel is now filled with ethanol and excellent cleaning and plastic ruining addatives, I use plain old ethanol laced auto fuel for my flushings. It does stain if you get a leak and it stinks a bit, but boy does it clean the crud out of fuel lines that may have been sitting on the shelf for a while. Not uncommon to get brown fuel out of an R-14 fuel injection hose. Our procedure: Start with clean gas cans and fresh fuel always. 1. We fill the tank nearly full, about 15 gallons (and watch for leaks in the fill neck and bosses). 2. Slosh the plane around 3. Lift the tail and disconnect the fuel line from the engine pump or fuel regulator. 4. Look for static leaks again. 5. Turn on the electric boost pump (pumps about 30 gal per hour or more). 6. Calibrate the fuel flow and sight gauge as appropriate. 7. Change 5 gallon tanks out. 8. When the fuel stops flowing out of the main, switch tanks and exhaust again. 9. Refuel through a Mister Funnel or similar filtering fuel funnel. 10. Repeat two more times. Repair anything that is wet with fuel. Use care not to overtorque fuel clamps and use the proper type if using other than automotive hose (cheap kind you throw away after a few years). Cheers Fred Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2015 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling Budyou wrote: Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull air well enough for some brands. Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two (in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side.. If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it do it in the air? An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer =9Con the ground=9D. Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly. With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow? That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolatorsI confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on this list and their apparent widespread use. Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. I am indeed aware of that fact. Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then switch and hopefully keep running. Exactly my intention... Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent? My two cents. Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless Many thanks, Fred PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europaowners.org website
Hi Alan, If you look at the homepage of "Gallery", the organisation that hosts europaowners.org ( http://galleryproject.org/ ), you will see the following announcement. This may explain your lack of success. Nigel /The Gallery team has decided to take a step back from actively maintaining this project. Truth be told, most of the core team got busy with their lives over the past few years and we haven't had the time to really actively maintain the project in a long time. The forums have continued to be lively and helpful and there is still plenty of good conversation there - but no new code has been written in the past 6 months and that's not likely to change./ /So after over 14 years, 3 major revisions of the project, many tens of releases, hundreds of contributors, tens of thousands of lines of code, almost a hundred thousand forum topics and almost four hundred thousand comments, it's time for us to shutter up shop./ /Why not just leave the site up and operational? Unfortunately - it takes time to actively maintain and police our site. The Gallery website is constantly under attack by spammers and our servers require maintenance. We've been doing that for years, but it's time to call it quits./ /So what's next? Sometime soon we'll make the website read only. All the forum posts and topics will still be there, but we'll stop letting people log in and add new content. This will greatly prevent the spread of spam through the site while still allowing search engines to find useful content. Then we'll put the whole site into a very low-overhead maintenance mode until we run out of money to keep it up. Then we'll shut the site down./ /While the site is hibernating, some systems will continue to work. You'll be able to download translations for Gallery 3, for example. But at some point we'll stop accepting translation uploads. And when we run out of money, translations will go away. Sorry about that./ /It's been a great ride. I'm glad that you could join us with it. But now it's time to move on./ /regards,// //Bharat/ /PS: If you're interested in taking over the project - email me and we can talk. You need to be serious about it though because I'm not handing this over to somebody who just wants to use it for SEO purposes. My email address is easy to find. Also, I won't be reading private messages./ http://galleryproject.org/ On 18/04/2015 19:05, alan_hunter1664 wrote: > > Does anyone know if the europaowners.org web site is still open to post build pictures? I've registered on the site but I can't find a link to create a new build. > > Many thanks > > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440975#440975 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europaowners.org website
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Thanks Nigel, I'ts disappointing and worrisome that they are going to shut the site down completely at some point but don't give any indication when. Many thanks Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440984#440984 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: First Fueling
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Budthanks so much for your additional comments and fuel system test proceduresee my indents belowFred > On Apr 18, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > Fred, > I recall your non standard engine, but am confident in the quality of your testing and evaluation. Your confidence is much appreciated. > > I don't intend to start a gascolator war, because they are a fine piece of equipment for tractors, metal high wing aircraft with no prime pumps and constant water problems or aircraft with low wings and the gascolator installed and tested with a thirty year track record like a Piper. They are fine for the aircraft with tank drains, and long runs of line that fill with water while sitting. I prefer Andair's gascolators as they work well up to high pressure, seal well, but they are not a visible junk trap. His filters are built into the unit and replaceable. On the ones we've installed in RVs, we put them on the engine side of the aux fuel pump and have had no problems. His pumps are great also. > > You=99re A&P friend is correct in having a high volume / low pressure pump feed the engine pressure pumps. The Facet pump indeed sucks well. (So does a Piersburg). On the initial installation of fuel injected engines, we used to have to have a header tank. Auto and Marine experience now shows a primer pump at the tank bottom level, will feed the volume needed. However, the volume of the high pressure pumps must be satisfied and proper plumbing to prevent circular flow when one pump fails. Your EFI manufacturer should have that information. The 2 hi-pressure EFI pumps I have each have internal check valves which I would rely on to prevent circular flow when one pump fails or is turned offI am checking their flow rates so I can be sure I order a Facet w/ sufficient flow rate. > As you know, autos now have the high pressure pump in the fuel tank and run pressure lines forward to the engine with the regulator after the fuel rail which prevents starvation and priming problems. Problem with our little aircraft is the fuel selector has to be forward of the pumps because they are not normally pressure tested and submerged fuel pumps are not possible. You probably have already reviewed SDS for their fuel system installation notes, but if you haven't: www.sdsefi.com <http://www.sdsefi.com/>. They really helped us with an RV as well as the Jason Parker engines. Their stuff works. See their cute little surge tank in their tech section. Small and affordable. I had NOT been aware of their fuel installation notesthanks for the referencevery helpful stuff. > > Cleaning the fuel line used to be done with denatured alcohol but since auto fuel is now filled with ethanol and excellent cleaning and plastic ruining addatives, I use plain old ethanol laced auto fuel for my flushings. Not knowing this, I put 15 gallons of ethanol-free gasoline in the tankpaid a hefty premium over car gas to bootoh well > It does stain if you get a leak and it stinks a bit, but boy does it clean the crud out of fuel lines that may have been sitting on the shelf for a while. Not uncommon to get brown fuel out of an R-14 fuel injection hose. My hose is SAE J30 R9 fuel injection hose w/ the blue Teflon linerit SEEMED to be clean as a whistle when I installed it. > Our procedure: > Start with clean gas cans and fresh fuel always. > > 1. We fill the tank nearly full, about 15 gallons (and watch for leaks in the fill neck and bosses). > 2. Slosh the plane around > 3. Lift the tail and disconnect the fuel line from the engine pump or fuel regulator. > 4. Look for static leaks again. > 5. Turn on the electric boost pump (pumps about 30 gal per hour or more). > 6. Calibrate the fuel flow and sight gauge as appropriate. > 7. Change 5 gallon tanks out. > 8. When the fuel stops flowing out of the main, switch tanks and exhaust again. > 9. Refuel through a Mister Funnel or similar filtering fuel funnel. > 10. Repeat two more times. > Repair anything that is wet with fuel. Use care not to overtorque fuel clamps and use the proper type if using other than automotive hose (cheap kind you throw away after a few years). Great procedurea keeper Wish I could fly down to Sun =99N Fun but I=99 m wanting to push ahead here Best to everyone who shows upBTW, had a GREAT ride w/ Kevin Klinefelter two weeks ago when he demonstrated his high-flying 914 above the High Sierras. Fred > > Cheers Fred > Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Klein <mailto:fklein(at)orcasonline.com> > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2015 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Fueling > > Budyou wrote: >> >> Gascolators do not prime well. I would check for an air leak. Andairs are well made and pull a vacuum. The standard diaphragm pump does not pull air well enough for some brands. > > Budnow we begin to descend down the rabbit hole of the testing and operational phase of a one-off, non-standard engine installation...recall that my engine is MPEFI=99edmy two (in parallel) fuel pumps are hi-pressure type and (apparently) do not have the ability to =9Csuck=9D fuel on the input side.. > >> If it won't prime the engine with 2.5 gallons on the ground, will it do it in the air? > > An excellent questionfor which prudence requires an answer =9Con the ground=9D. >> >> Ground Test war story: Ran the main dry, flipped to aux and it would not self prime without more head pressure. Could not find a leak but the gascolator was installed slightly above tank bottom level. With 10 gallons it would prime. It was a trigear. I know they have used gascolators in a/c for ever, but they should be the lowest point in the system. That is, the bowl outside, below the belly. > > With my mono resting on the LG & tail wheel, I=99m preparing a diagram with measured elevations of the various points in the fuel system starting from the tank outlet to the hi-pressure fuel pump outletsHowever, by eye, it is apparent that the high point in the system is the selector-valve-main-tank-outlet(selector valve having been installed as per manual). At this stage of the game, I have concerns that if main tank runs dry to exhaustion and I move selector to reserve, will fuel continue to flow? >> >> That is why I don't use them and won't install one. To easy to screw up. Besides, water does not condense in the tanks and filters work as well. > > I=99ve been unaware of your thoughts on gascolatorsI confess to have one solely because of the frequent mention of them on this list and their apparent widespread use. > >> Most experimental takeoff accidents are fuel and engine related. > > I am indeed aware of that fact. > >> Make them flawless then test for fuel exhaustion, on one side then switch and hopefully keep running. > > Exactly my intention... >> >> Clean your fuel lines before hooking to the engine. A common assumption is the filter missed some dirt/ debris and the gascolators just prior to the engine caught it. Flush and flush again. > > And what do you recommend for a cleaning agent? >> >> My two cents. > > Grossly undervaluedyour knowledge is priceless > > Many thanks, > > Fred > > PS: A local A&P recommends adding a Facet pump to ensure that fuel gets to my hi-pressure pumpsmy engine builder recommends bleeding the lines just upstream of the hi-pressure pumpsfor the moment, I=99m looking for simplicity and reliability. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ">http://www.matronhref= "http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/c> > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Subject: Miami Area Contacts
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this) Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact. Many thanks Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Subject: Loan of an open monowheel trailer
From: houlihan <houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Hi. A friend of mine needs to move his monowheel Europa and his own trailer is not available. Can you help ? The details are that the trailer which for various reasons has to be the open factory type is needed to move a Europa to the English midlands but the trailer can be picked up from anywhere within reason, The loan will only be for a couple of days. If you can help please reply in the first instance to me and I will forward your message ; regards Tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Hi All! The Engineering Meeting has a reserved spot at the traditional venue: Hooters 3437 S Florida Ave Lakeland, FL 33803 at 18:30 on Thursday 4/23 Be there or be square! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441002#441002 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Compressing Rubber Mounts
I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the washers and nut on? When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Martin Tuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Miami Area Contacts
Date: Apr 20, 2015
Thats funny William. If you leave her, you wont need a contact. > On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell wr ote: > > It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this) > Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact. > Many thanks > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Miami Area Contacts
Date: Apr 20, 2015
I meant keep, not leave. > On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell wr ote: > > It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this) > Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact. > Many thanks > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 19, 2015
What compressing? I don't understand. Admittedly I have a Classic with a different engine cradle frame, but I can't conceive that the Lord mounts would be greatly different. Yes they are fiddly and difficult to assemble and keep from falling apart while trying to hang the engine bearer onto the undercarriage frame, but if the engine is suspended at a suitable angle using straps and a hoist, with slow careful manoeuvring it all comes together until enough thread pokes through to engage the nuts on the bolts. The last time I did this (about the 5th time), I fastened little cable tie-wraps tightly around the bolt shanks after assembling the Lord mounts into the engine bearer. This helped to minimise the tendency of the Lord mount assemblies to disintegrate while manoeuvring. Slowly and carefully seemed to work for me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441011#441011 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europaowners.org website
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Gents, Does anyone know if your albums/pictures can be downloaded other than individually? Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On Apr 19, 2015, at 3:17 AM, alan_hunter1664 wrote: Thanks Nigel, I'ts disappointing and worrisome that they are going to shut the site down completely at some point but don't give any indication when. Many thanks Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Thanks Jonathon, The instructions say that the four AN5-40 mounting bolts must be tightened fully to compress the rubber anti-vibration mounts (MT04) onto the steel spacers MT03. That is the compressing I refer to. There is probably about .20 inch of compression needed on each rubber mount - about .40 inch in total which is about the about amount of thread needed to allow the nut to grab once the washers are on. In their 'relaxed state' when assembled there isn't enough thread poking through to engage the nuts on the bolts. I assume that the steel spacers set the distance between the large cap washers MT02. I can use longer bolts to get the rubbers compressed and then I like the idea of the tie wraps to keep them compressed while I switch out the bolts to the correct length ones. I think later manuals call out AN4-41 bolts so I suspect this was a problem in the past. Martin On 4/19/2015 6:49 PM, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > What compressing? I don't understand. Admittedly I have a Classic with a different engine cradle frame, but I can't conceive that the Lord mounts would be greatly different. Yes they are fiddly and difficult to assemble and keep from falling apart while trying to hang the engine bearer onto the undercarriage frame, but if the engine is suspended at a suitable angle using straps and a hoist, with slow careful manoeuvring it all comes together until enough thread pokes through to engage the nuts on the bolts. > > The last time I did this (about the 5th time), I fastened little cable tie-wraps tightly around the bolt shanks after assembling the Lord mounts into the engine bearer. This helped to minimise the tendency of the Lord mount assemblies to disintegrate while manoeuvring. > > Slowly and carefully seemed to work for me. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441011#441011 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Subject: Re: Miami Area Contacts
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Nice one.... On Apr 19, 2015 5:35 PM, "Tony Renshaw" wrote: > I meant keep, not leave. > > On 19 Apr 2015, at 22:22, William Daniell > wrote: > > It is possible that I may be transferred to the Miami area. I am planning > to be flying by then which makes the No 1 priority to find a home ...for my > Europa. (dont let the Mrs see this) > Can anyone suggest place to keep her? And ideally a contact. > Many thanks > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > * > > D============================================ > a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > D============================================ > //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > D============================================ > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > D============================================ > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Apr 19, 2015
Hi Martin, I remember having the exact problem you describe when I built mine - the uncompressed assembly being longer then the bl@@dy bolts! I seem to remember assembling and compressing the mounts in a vice off the aircraft with the nuts and bolts, binding them tightly with locking wire, removing the bolts, assembling onto the aircraft, snipping the locking wire off then finally tightening them permanently. (Then finding the whole things got to come off again for something else....!). Took a while to perfect the technique and doubtless most other people have got a far more elegant method.....! -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441032#441032 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
Ira, I hope someone will "Record the Minutes" and distribute appropriate pictures to those of us not able to attend. ....oh, ... and don't worry if one or two of the servers should happen to appear in the background! Nigel On 19/04/2015 18:41, rampil wrote: > > Hi All! > > The Engineering Meeting has a reserved spot at the traditional venue: > > Hooters > 3437 S Florida Ave > Lakeland, FL 33803 > > > at 18:30 on Thursday 4/23 > > Be there or be square! > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441002#441002 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Jonathanthe rubber mounts on the Classic were not "Lord", unless supplied b y Rotax. The ones that came with the Classic were much harder. rubber. They came from a different supplier. Graham On Monday, 20 April 2015, 7:04, JonSmith wrote: k> Hi Martin, I remember having the exact problem you describe when I built mi ne - the uncompressed assembly being longer then the bl@@dy bolts! I seem to remember assembling and compressing the mounts in a vice off the aircraft with the nuts and bolts, binding them tightly with locking wire, r emoving the bolts, assembling onto the aircraft, snipping the locking wire off then finally tightening them permanently.=C2- (Then finding the whole things got to come off again for something else....!).=C2- Took a while to perfect the technique and doubtless most other people have got a far mor e elegant method.....! -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441032#441032 S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Martin, A couple of those long adjustable clamps that carpenters use for compressing things like joints on chairs, did the job for me. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-04-19 23:22, Martin Tuck wrote: > > I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. > > Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the washers and nut on? > > When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > Links: ------ [1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] http://forums.matronics.com [3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
I remember what I did now, (from 20 years ago!) I used longer bolts and ext ra washers. Graham On Monday, 20 April 2015, 9:11, "davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk" wrote: Martin, A couple of those long adjustable clamps that carpenters use for c ompressing things like joints on chairs, did the job for me. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ=C2-=C2-On 2015-04-19 23:22, Martin Tuck wrote: I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you can g et the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the washers and n ut on? When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Martin Tuck ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: John Wigney <johnwigney(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Hi Martin, It is a long time ago, but I think that I bought some 1/4" hardware threaded rod and (i) cut it into 4 judicious lengths. (ii) I then bolted the whole assembly up tight at each mount. (iii) I then removed one threaded rod at a time and inserted the correct bolt. I think that works. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina From: Martin Tuck<MJKTuck(at)cs.com> Subject: Europa-List: Compressing Rubber Mounts I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the washers and nut on? When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Martin Tuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
I think it does work JohnI did something similarGraham On Monday, 20 April 2015, 15:32, John Wigney wrote: Hi Martin, It is a long time ago, but I think that I bought some 1/4" hardware threaded rod and (i) cut it into 4 judicious lengths. (ii) I then bolted the whole assembly up tight at each mount. (iii) I then removed one threaded rod at a time and inserted the correct bolt. I think that works. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina From: Martin Tuck<MJKTuck(at)cs.com> Subject: Europa-List: Compressing Rubber Mounts I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the washers and nut on? When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Martin Tuck S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Date: Apr 20, 2015
Ditto Dave Park G-LDVO Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Apr 2015, at 15:46, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: > > I think it does work John > I did something similar > Graham > > > > On Monday, 20 April 2015, 15:32, John Wigney w rote: > > > > Hi Martin, > > It is a long time ago, but I think that I bought some 1/4" hardware > threaded rod and (i) cut it into 4 judicious lengths. > (ii) I then bolted the whole assembly up tight at each mount. > (iii) I then removed one threaded rod at a time and inserted the correct > bolt. > > I think that works. > > Cheers, John > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > From: Martin Tuck<MJKTuck(at)cs.com> > Subject: Europa-List: Compressing Rubber Mounts > > > I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. > > Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you > can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the > washers and nut on? > > When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember > struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. > I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > http://forums.matronics.com > ; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.m atronics.com/contribution > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2015
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Compressing Rubber Mounts
Thanks all for suggestions. I managed to get them all done tonight using a combination of tie wraps and a small clamp along with longer bolts to compress the rubbers first. Then replaced each one with the aircraft grade AN5 bolt. Took about an hour and it wasn't easy as the tie wraps kept slipping off the curved cap washers at first. The bottom ones were easier as the weight of the engine compressed one side of the rubber mount enough that I could get the washers and nut on. All the best, Martin On 4/20/2015 9:30 AM, John Wigney wrote: > Hi Martin, > > It is a long time ago, but I think that I bought some 1/4" hardware > threaded rod and (i) cut it into 4 judicious lengths. > (ii) I then bolted the whole assembly up tight at each mount. > (iii) I then removed one threaded rod at a time and inserted the > correct bolt. > > I think that works. > > Cheers, John > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > From: Martin Tuck<MJKTuck(at)cs.com> > Subject: Europa-List: Compressing Rubber Mounts > > > I'm busy rehanging the engine with fresh rubber mounts. > > Is there an easier way of compressing the rubber mounts such that you > can get the threads of each bolt to show through enough to put the > washers and nut on? > > When I installed the engine first time round I seem to remember > struggling with some kind of clamp but I can't remember what I did now. > I figured this must be a common problem so perhaps I've missed a trick. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europaowners.org website
From: "SteveD" <Post2Forum(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 20, 2015
Hello everyone, EuropaOwners.org is NOT closing. The developers of Gallery the software that the site is based on is no longer going to provide updates. As an example, the Matronics site runs on phpbb2 and that has not been supported for years, and the site continues to run smoothly. I see no reason that EuropaOwners should not be able to do the same. I'ts disappointing and worrisome that they are going to shut the site down completely at some point but don't give any indication when. No need to be troubled or disappointed - the site should continue to run just fine. Does anyone know if your albums/pictures can be downloaded other than individually? Yes. Next to the album is a pull down menu. Select Add to cart. The software will let you add all the photos in that album to your cart. You can then download the photos as a ZIP file. The software will not download all the sub-albums, you have to click on them individually and add to cart. I've registered on the site but I can't find a link to create a new build. Many thanks Alan Oops sorry Alan, I turned off letting users build albums on the main menu after we had some inappropriate postings. Ive set up an album for you on page 4. User name AlanHunter You should be able to Upload and make sub-albums there. Hope that clears things up, SteveD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441077#441077 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2015
Hi Nigel! We will do our best ;) These meetings generally focus on the fellowship of the type club. There are of course engineering discussions related to specific Europa mods and best practices. Then there are general discussions regarding stress and strain and specific applications of construction, particularly cantilever structures. Cheers, -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441082#441082 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2015
From: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
Ah! yes, those stress observations ..... I remember them well. I haven't been to any of those meeting for a long time ......but I like to keep my hand in ;-) Nigel Quoting rampil : > > Hi Nigel! > > We will do our best ;) > > These meetings generally focus on the fellowship of the type club. > There are of course engineering discussions related to specific Europa mods > and best practices. Then there are general discussions regarding stress and > strain and specific applications of construction, particularly > cantilever structures. > > Cheers, > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441082#441082 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mr. Funnel
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2015
I see that Mr. Funnel comes in 3 sizescan anyone say which size (small?, medium?, or large?) would service the XS model of Ms. Europa the best?or are we back to that old questionDoes size matter? (sometimes I despair in this world of over-choice) thanks, Fred Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441104#441104 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>
Subject: Re: Mr. Funnel
Date: Apr 21, 2015
Small works great. Christoph #223 Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 21, 2015, at 17:48, "Fred Klein" wrote: > > > I see that Mr. Funnel comes in 3 sizes?can anyone say which size (small?, medium?, or large?) would service the XS model of Ms. Europa the best??or are we back to that old question?Does size matter? > > (sometimes I despair in this world of ?oover-choice?) > > thanks, > > Fred > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441104#441104 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mr. Funnel
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2015
I recently went to a baseball game and visited the concession stand. I asked for a drink. "What size?". "Just a small will do" I replied. "We don't do small - only medium, large or extra large". Only in America :-). Martin Tuck Wichita, Kansas Sent from my iPad > On Apr 21, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > > I see that Mr. Funnel comes in 3 sizescan anyone say which size (small?, medium?, or large?) would service the XS model of Ms. Europa the best?or are we back to that old questionDoes size matter? > > (sometimes I despair in this world of over-choice) > > thanks, > > Fred > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441104#441104 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Yeah! It's back from the dead
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2015
Superior Launches 100 hp Diesel Engine | Flying Magazine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mr. Funnel
Date: Apr 22, 2015
I have a med funnel but keep meaning to get the larger one. They are very good. It's amazing what gets trapped in them even when using plastic containers. Kevin Challis > On 21 Apr 2015, at 23:30, Christoph Both wrote: > > > Small works great. > Christoph > #223 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 21, 2015, at 17:48, "Fred Klein" wrote: >> >> >> I see that Mr. Funnel comes in 3 sizes?can anyone say which size (small?, medium?, or large?) would service the XS model of Ms. Europa the best??or are we back to that old question?Does size matter? >> >> (sometimes I despair in this world of ?oover-choice?) >> >> thanks, >> >> Fred >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441104#441104 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2015
Subject: Re: Yeah! It's back from the dead
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
its a smaller version of the Chieftain tank engine...two crankshafts 3 cylinders 6 pistons. though the Chieftain I think had 6 cylinders. this engine was in turn developed from a train engine. Hope its more reliable that the Chieftain. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:27 PM, Pete wrote: > Superior Launches 100 hp Diesel Engine | Flying Magazine > <http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/lsasport/superior-launches-100-hp-diesel-engine?src=SOC&dom=tw> > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europaowners.org website
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 22, 2015
Steve, that is great news many thanks Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441122#441122 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 22, 2015
Response from Europa is that I have the issue 2 TP38s but need issue 1TP38s which are Slightly longer. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441123#441123 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sight Gauge problem
From: "GBWFH2010" <gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2015
I have just completed the 5 year rubber fuel line replacement on my Classic, including renewing the sight gauge clear tubing. When I was replacing the sight tube I discovered the previous owner had at some time installed a non-standard fuel gauge system (which never worked, but the sight gauge did!) using an 'external' sender unit plumbed in from the sight gauge link from the LH tank. I am embarrassed to say I had never noticed this set up as it was well hidden from view. I was not happy about this situation and decided to remove unapproved kit and restore the connections per the build manual. The sight gauge on my aircraft runs from the LH tank, through the tunnel and is securely fastened to the bulkhead on the left hand of the passenger seat. It then routes through through the passenger headrest and follows the filler pipe up to the vent on the fuselage. The system had worked well before and given a reasonably accurate indication of the contents. I thought I had done everything correctly and filling the tank the 'new' gauge seemed to be giving what appeared to be logical indications. However when I flew the aircraft for the first time the level in the tube went way past maximum (I had a total of 55 litres on board), particularly in the climb. There was also a smell of fuel which may have ben caused by the fuel venting. My question is does anyone have an idea what could be causing this? There is a restrictor in the tube similar to that found in the fuel return line. This was in the previous set up so I re-installed it, but I can not find any reference to this in the manuals. Could this be causing the problem? Sorry for the lengthy post and any help would be greatly appreciated. -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441136#441136 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2015
A quick preview of the agenda planning committee meeting prior to the Engineering Meeting. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441140#441140 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_197.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sight Gauge problem
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2015
Gordonyou wrote: > The sight gauge on my aircraft runs from the LH tank, through the tunnel and is securely fastened to the bulkhead on the left hand of the passenger seat. Could you please identify the LH tank as either port or starboard and give additional information on the bulkhead? Is the referenced bulkhead the vertical setback? F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube
From: "flyingphil2" <flyingphil627-europastuff(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
Hi Alan, Are you saying that the Issue 1 part is correct and the up-issued version is now wrong? I've no idea what version I have - do you dimensions of the two versions? Regards, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441161#441161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sight Gauge problem
From: "GBWFH2010" <gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
Fred, The sight gauge feed is from the PORT tank. My use of the word bulkhead was completely wrong, the vertical section sight gauge tubing is attached to the passenger seat back adjacent to the tunnel. Sorry for the confusion. Gordon -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441183#441183 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sight Gauge problem
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
Hi Gordon, there is a bit more about the sight gauge in the build manual chapter 17 (Bonding Cockpit Module Into Fuselage). On page 17-3 part way down is a paragraph titled 'Fuel Sight Gauge' and this states that the restrictor IS required in the sight gauge pipeline. Just to act as a damper I should imagine. My own sight gauge has always worked pretty well. Mine is set up exactly as per the manual, even with the routing up the front and behind the instrument panel - as long as one understands the readings relevant to the aircraft attitude its ok. The only difference to standard is that I have plumbed the sight gauge and fuel tank vents into the top of the filler cobra (XS style filler tube) and then vented the cobra to the standard s/steel tube on the top of the fuselage. Sorry to ask but if you are suddenly getting these strange readings after working on it are you COMPLETELY sure you haven't made an error with the hose connections? There's quite a lot of pipes in a small space and several of them look rather similar! Also, on your port tank outlet does it have two separate outlets coming out of it, one dedicated for the feed to the engine and the other dedicated to the sight gauge (combined with the drain if fitted)? The early version had just one outlet to feed to the engine with the sight gauge Tee'd off and apparently with the engine running that DID give weird readings set up like that, hence they split the outlet into two separate outlets. (The starboard side tank outlet should also have two ports, one for the reserve engine feed and the other for the return line). Another thought, could it be you have a low point in the sight gauge line somewhere which has got a slug of fuel trapped in it preventing pressure equalisation to the vent thus duff readings? Blowing down the sight gauge vent might clear this? Also is the vent to the outside correctly orientated and not subject to some strange pressure influence that would mess up the reading? Just random thoughts, all the best, Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441184#441184 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sight Gauge problem
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
Gordonthanks for the clarificationIm wondering, where does your sight gauge T into the fuel tank vent line?and have you assured yourself that there are no fuel pockets in possible low points as the sight gauge line snakes towards the fuel filler which may block the line? From your routing description, Id look for kinks in or collapsing of your sight gauge line as it (presumably) angles from the vertical across the flat area of the CM, and into and out of the PAX headrest. As I recall, a constrictor in the sight gauge line is required. Hope this helps, Fred > On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:16 PM, GBWFH2010 wrote: > > > Fred, > > The sight gauge feed is from the PORT tank. > > My use of the word bulkhead was completely wrong, the vertical section sight gauge tubing is attached to the passenger seat back adjacent to the tunnel. Sorry for the confusion. > > Gordon > > -------- > Gordon Grant > > G-BWFH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441183#441183 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
Hi Phil, Yes I have the issue 2 TP38s and I need the issue 1 and there is one other builder that has contacted me who has the same problem. The following information was provided by Europa. Issue 2 TP38s are 1.625" long Issue 1 TP38s are 2.25" long. Best regards Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441187#441187 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs
From: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 23, 2015
I seem to be stumbling from one problem to another at the minute. Maybe it's me inexperience! Whilst waiting for an answer on my Tailplane Torque tube issue I though I would complete the quick build Tailplanes. This is achieved by bonding the bottom skin and the tip using araldite 420. This was completed with only minor problems along the way. However, fitting the Anti-servo trim tabs is another matter. I've not approached Europa with this yet as I wanted to see if anyone else had overcome the problem. The anti-servo tab now comes pre-built but this is not reflected in the manual. The issue is that if I align the trailing edge of the trim tab with that of the tailplane there is insufficient trailing edge at the root to attach the trim tab to and there would be restricted movement of the trim tab. there are 'trim lines' on the tailplane training edge and trim tab upper leading edge however trimming them to these lines would make the anti-servo tab extend proud of the tailplane trailing edge, is this normal? I've attached some photos which I hope highlight the issue. Any ideas? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441191#441191 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0429_113.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0426_649.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0425_407.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Even though your photographs clearly show the trim lines, if I were in your shoes I would find a Europa which is already built and take some very careful measurements and photographs for comparison before cutting anything. When I built my Classic wings there were reference pen marks made by the factory on the foam to help set an incidence (I think) angle accurately. This was 20 years ago, so I'm a little vague. However one essential pen mark was missing and I needed advice to recreate that mark. Difficult when the factory template wasn't available. As the old build notes stated "Think thrice, measure twice, cut once". Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441213#441213 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
A daily gathering at Custom Flight Creation's booth -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441214#441214 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2520_146.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
A portion of the 2015 Europa Engineering Meeting. We filled two tables. Bud had an extensive Agenda which touched on Staffing, parts availability, Modes, used aircraft market. LSA market projections etc. I'll leave it to him to fill in the details after the show -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441215#441215 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2523_496.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sight Gauge problem
From: "GBWFH2010" <gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Fred and Jon, Thanks for your advice and also clarifying the situation regarding the restrictor. I was looking in the Classic manual and I did not notice it on the fuel system drawing, although it is shown quite clearly. That being said I am sure I have everything connected correctly. My Classic has the dual connectors at the tank so the sight gauge tube is not connected by a T-piece. I agree it is looking as if a blockage, or air bubble, in the system is the cause of the problem. I will go over on Monday, have a really thorough inspection and let you know how I get on. -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441216#441216 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com>
Subject: Mono tire replacement
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Any thoughts on mono tire replacement frequency/use/years? I have an Air Trac about 7 years old and tread still looks good. Is time an issue, how long? I know on RVs "road type" they recommend changing every 5 years or so regardless of miles due to tires degrading. Thanks for your advice. Regards Jerry Mono XS 914 Airmaster 15 years running Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Subject: Mr. Funnel
Hi Fred, I keep a small Mr. Funnel in the plane for fueling while travel ing cross-country, and a large in the hangar for routine filling at home base. There is a noticeable difference in speed of filling between the two, and I am sure the line guys would appreciate it if I used the larg e, however, the small fits better in the plane. I don't recall their be ing a medium at the time I purchased the small. ErichN28ET Classic Mono 914 From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> I see that Mr. Funnel comes in 3 sizescan anyone say which size (small?, medium?, or large?) would service the XS model of Ms. Europa the best?or are we b ack to that old questionDoes size matter?(sometimes I despair in this world of over-choice)thanks,Fred ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/553a6bf64c2086bf605c1st02vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fitting new tail plane torque tube
From: "flyingphil2" <flyingphil627-europastuff(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Many thanks Alan, I'll go and see what I have. You seem to be the 'NG' kit pioneer, breaking new ground, from what I can tell ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441233#441233 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs
From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Hi Alan Im not building the NG version but I will try and help with a few observations. First, take a look in the NG build manual for the Anti Servo Trim Tab, figure 7. You can see that the hinge is on the upper surface of both tailplane and tab and also that the upper leading edge of the tab flange is only as wide as one half of the hinge. In your photo it looks much wider than this and may need to be trimmed. This will bring the tab closer to the rear closeout of the tailplane. Second, take a look at the XS build manual, Chap 4, figure 12. This shows the whole assembly upside down but shows that the bottom flange of the tailplane closeout is trimmed back to allow the 30mm required movement. I would avoid trimming the upper flange of the tailplane closeout ( the one the hinge fits on) unless absolutely necessary this flange comes assembled on the NG tailplane and may have already been trimmed by the factory to the right depth. The important dimension to achieve is the clearance between the leading edge nose of the tab and the tailplane closeout vertical web as shown in figure 12. If you have a slight clearance when the tab has moved the 30mm you should be ok. I think this might take a slowly, slowly, little bit at a time approach to get right. You could make a cardboard template of the root and tip end of the tab and try them against the tailplane to see if you can get the required dimensions if you trim the tab flange to the width of the hinge (or just over). As stated in the previous posting, I would measure 10 times and be absolutely sure before trimming. I will have a look at my tailplane and tab. It is foam of course but some dimensions and photos might give you some ideas. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv(at)kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441238#441238 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mono tire replacement
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Hi Jerry, I replaced my air track after I saw significant degradation in the sidewall. Kevin from Sun&fun Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 24, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Jerry Rehn wrote: > > > Any thoughts on mono tire replacement frequency/use/years? I have an Air Trac about 7 years old and tread still looks good. Is time an issue, how long? I know on RVs "road type" they recommend changing every 5 years or so regardless of miles due to tires degrading. > Thanks for your advice. > Regards > Jerry > Mono XS 914 Airmaster > 15 years running > > Sent from my iPad > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs
From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz>
Date: Apr 24, 2015
Hi Alan Here is a photo of one of my tailplane / tab hinges. The flange each hinge half attaches to is approx 20mm wide, just over the hinge width. With the trailing edge of the tailplane and trim tab aligned, the gap between the leading edge nose of the tab and the vertical web of the tailplane closeout is approx 10mm. Remember the movement here will be much smaller than the 30mm measured at the trailing edge. The bottom flange of the tailplane is progressively trimmed back to just clear the tab at full movement. I think Bud has given some suggestions before on control gaps. You have no filling to do so you can keep them a bit tighter. Hope this helps. -------- Regards Kelv Weston Kit 497 kelv(at)kdweston.biz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441245#441245 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_tab_hinge_161.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun N Fun 2015
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Apr 26, 2015
We left SNF Friday to beat forecast weather and got as far as Louisville, KY. Saturday morning made the last leg home. It was great seeing everyone and having time to just chat and share experiences. We camped in HBC and had a great time! This was our first time flying and arrived Monday just before the weather. There was no traffic so the arrival was easy. HBC camping is awesome! Mary Jane and her crew are outstanding, friendly and helpful. We had heard about the Friday dinner but had no idea of the breakfast offerings or the evening meals. The showers could use some hooks and shelves to put stuff on, but they are adequate and I only had to wait a few minutes one morning. Heather never had to wait. We had a total of 4 Europas (3 monos!) in HBC and two other owners drove in. We all hung out and had a great time. We'll be back and certainly in HBC. Jim & Heather Europa XS N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441321#441321 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2015
From: William Bliss <william(at)wbliss.co.uk>
Subject: exhaust part needed
Hi all G-WUFF has cracked the number 3 cylinder exhaust downpipe. I think it is the older exhaust type. It has the cylindrical silencer box. Where can I get a new downpipe? I tried searching the Europa parts catalogue but it is not easy. I have e-mailed them. I am in North East England. Thanks William ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2015
From: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info>
Subject: Re: exhaust part needed
Hi William Probably made by http://www.cktengineering.com/ Give them a call and have a word with Chris, very helpfull. They may want the 'cracked' pipe back to copy. They have replaced all 4 of mine. Regards Pete G-RMAC Classic #109 On 26/04/15 21:08, William Bliss wrote: > > Hi all > > G-WUFF has cracked the number 3 cylinder exhaust downpipe. I think it > is the older exhaust type. It has the cylindrical silencer box. > > Where can I get a new downpipe? I tried searching the Europa parts > catalogue but it is not easy. I have e-mailed them. > > I am in North East England. > > Thanks > > William > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
Can I bring European Europa flyers' attention to the EBLE (Sanicole , Belgium) experimental fly in that Karel Vranken warmly invites all Europas to. This is the first rally for experimental planes organised in Belgium and they certainly seem to be putting a lot of effort into it. There are details and registration arrangements at www.experimentaldays.be [1] and links to it on the club site (www.theeuropaclub.org [2]) under Flying/ Flying Program. Karel promises that this is going to be a really enjoyable event with the best of Belgian food and beer. He has arranged mass exemption from the usual costly business of getting permission for Permit aircraft (for those who have pre-registered). He has also arranged a fly around the nice bits of Belgium with free landings on the Saturday afternoon. Getting there is easy. From UK you can clear customs at Calais and then fly in a straight line to EBLE, without needing to put in a new flight plan (New Shengen regs) Perhaps I can also highlight the Le Touquet Trip due to take place on 23 May and ask anyone interested to contact me soon. Regards, David Joyce, EC Trips oprganiser Links: ------ [1] http://www.experimentaldays.be [2] http://www.theeuropaclub.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2015
From: William Bliss <william(at)wbliss.co.uk>
Subject: Heggemann exhaust pipe
Hi all again Still on the Rotax number 3 cylinder exhaust downpipe trail. Looks like my system was made by Heggemann in Germany and pre dates the CKT system. G-WUFF build was started around 1999. I have e-mailed the company. Does anyone have a number 3 cylinder downpipe spare? I have a photo which I could e-mail. Thanks William ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
Date: Apr 27, 2015
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
=0ABut still require Mode S for Belgium?=0A=0ADuncan McF.=0A=0A=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk=0ATo: euro pa list =0ASent: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:38 =0ASubject: Europa-List: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 201 5=0A=0A=0A Can I bring European Europa flyer s' attention to the EBLE (Sanicole , Belgium) experimental fly in that Karel Vranken warmly invites all Europas to. This is the first rally for experimental planes organised in Belgiu m and they certainly seem to be putting a lot of effort into it. There are details and registration arrangements at ww w.experimentaldays.be and links to it on the club site ( www.theeuropaclub.org) under Flying/ Flying Program. Karel pro mises that this is going to be a really enjoyable event wi th the best of Belgian food and beer. He has arranged mass exemption from the usual costly business of getting permissio n for Permit aircraft (for those who have pre-registered). He has also arranged a fly around the nice bits of Belgium wi th free landings on the Saturday afternoon. Getting there is easy. From UK you can clear customs at Calais and then fly in a straight line to EBLE, without needing to put in a new flight plan (New Shengen regs)=0A Perhaps I can also highlight the Le Touquet Trip due to take place on 23 May and ask anyone interested to contact me soon.=0A Regards, David Joyce, EC Trips oprganiser=0A =0A =========================== ==========-= - The Eur opa-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as Lis t Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:-=-= -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List-=-==== =========================== =========================== ==-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!-=-= -- http://forums.matronics.com-=-=== =========================== =========================== ===-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= -- http://www.matronic s.com/contribution-==================== =========================== ==============0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
Duncan, My understanding is that you need mode S to go into controlled airspace there, but I will ask Karel if he has any different info. Regards, David On 2015-04-27 22:03, ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net wrote: > But still require Mode S for Belgium? > > Duncan McF. > > -----Original Message----- > From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk > To: europa list > Sent: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:38 > Subject: Europa-List: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015 > > Can I bring European Europa flyers' attention to the EBLE (Sanicole , Belgium) experimental fly in that Karel Vranken warmly invites all Europas to. This is the first rally for experimental planes organised in Belgium and they certainly seem to be putting a lot of effort into it. There are details and registration arrangements at www.experimentaldays.be [4] and links to it on the club site (www.theeuropaclub.org [5]) under Flying/ Flying Program. Karel promises that this is going to be a really enjoyable event with the best of Belgian food and beer. He has arranged mass exemption from the usual costly business of getting permission for Permit aircraft (for those who have pre-registered). He has also arranged a fly around the nice bits of Belgium with free landings on the Saturday afternoon. Getting there is easy. From UK you can clear customs at Calais and then fly in a straight line to EBLE, without needing to put in a new flight plan (New Shengen regs) > Perhaps I can also highlight the Le Touquet Trip due to take place on 23 May and ask anyone interested to contact me soon. > Regards, David Joyce, EC Trips oprganiser > > http://www.matr============================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -======================================================ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matro============================================ > Links: ------ [1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] http://forums.matronics.com [3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution [4] http://www.experimentaldays.be/ [5] http://www.theeuropaclub.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2015
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
From: houlihan <houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
David. Are planning to attend the Belgium flyin ? if so what dates do you plan to book. If you have any problems I would be able to fly you in with your head covered by a blanket and you using a false name :<( Tim On 28 April 2015 at 10:34, wrote: > Duncan, My understanding is that you need mode S to go into controlled > airspace there, but I will ask Karel if he has any different info. > > Regards, David > > > On 2015-04-27 22:03, ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net wrote: > > But still require Mode S for Belgium? > > Duncan McF. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk > To: europa list > Sent: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:38 > Subject: Europa-List: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015 > > Can I bring European Europa flyers' attention to the EBLE > (Sanicole , Belgium) experimental fly in that Karel Vranken warmly invites > all Europas to. This is the first rally for experimental planes organised > in Belgium and they certainly seem to be putting a lot of effort into it. > There are details and registration arrangements at www.experimentaldays.be and > links to it on the club site (www.theeuropaclub.org) under Flying/ > Flying Program. Karel promises that this is going to be a really > enjoyable event with the best of Belgian food and beer. He has arranged > mass exemption from the usual costly business of getting permission for > Permit aircraft (for those who have pre-registered). He has also arranged a > fly around the nice bits of Belgium with free landings on the Saturday > afternoon. Getting there is easy. From UK you can clear customs at Calais > and then fly in a straight line to EBLE, without needing to put in a new > flight plan (New Shengen regs) > Perhaps I can also highlight the Le Touquet Trip due to take place > on 23 May and ask anyone interested to contact me soon. > Regards, David Joyce, EC Trips oprganiser > > > http://www.matr============================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > -====ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank> > http://www.matro================== > > * > > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> > ics.com <http://ics.com> > .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution> > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
From: "tennant" <barrington.tennant(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2015
Duncan, I just read this in the Belgian AIP: ----------------------------------- The carriage and operation of mode S transponders with Basic Functionality is mandatory in the Brussels FIR/UIR airspace for all aircraft operating: in civil class C airspace in civil class D airspace in class G airspace for VFR flights at night. The carriage and operation of a serviceable transponder - capable of replying to Mode A and C interrogations - is mandatory in the Brussels FIR/UIR airspace for all aircraft operating in military controlled airspace. ------------------------------------- It appears that for VFR day flights no mode S is necessary. Please correct me if I am wrong, before I do something silly! ---------------------------------------- David, I had not heard of the mentioned Shengen changes. Where can I read about it?? Best regards Barry Tennant -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441429#441429 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Date: Apr 28, 2015
I asked a friend who lives and often flies in Belgium. The rule is easy as follows (http://www.belgocontrol.be/website/eaip/eAIP_Main/html/eAIP/EB-GEN-1.5-en-GB.html#GEN-1.5 ): If you need a transponder, it has to be mode S and you need a transponder in all airspace where a clearance is mandatory. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441438#441438 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs
Date: Apr 28, 2015
Alan, It is absolutely imperative you pay attention to the normal foam tailplane build instructions: We have alerted Europa to these issues in general, but I am not tech support any longer for the factory and cannot give you a definitive answer to why this occurs other than it is not quite ready for a builder to assemble just yet without extensive knowledge of how the tabs and stab are built. Yes the stabs go on the tube, but the stab to fuselage fitting and the TP inserts for the drive tab pin seating must be done with great care. The flange (skin surface overhanging the root rib) must be trimmed to allow the TPs to fully seat in the root of the stab. They will be proud a bit on one side, once the flange is trimmed to allow the pins to fully seat and the TPs to be in contact with the rib. Then scuff the area and seat with Redux and make a nice transition to support the bush. Next your trim tabs. No amount of work will get things perfect on the tabs. Always go steps ahead before proceeding to a cut line. The MS 20001-3 hinge must fit the flange skin dead flat. So both the tab and stab top skin flanges must be trimmed to allow the hinge to fit square and flat. Should the tab be too long for the stab TE, you would have to cut the rebate in either the tab or stab, or lengthen the stab with a few layers of glass and some careful molding. Note also that the hinge line skin bonds are so thick that a normal 1/16 to 1 mm inch gap after paint will jamb the control as the hinge line is so far from the upper skin due to the excessive thickness of the skins, so an angled surface must be made to allow proper UP movement of the tab. The same problem exists with the ailerons. I have shown the owner the problems first hand. I will forward (when I have time) more issues with the NG control surfaces. These are not insurmountable problems in fitting the surfaces, just not quite cut and bolt up and its done assembly (slot A tab B we all hope for). Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations. -----Original Message----- From: alan_hunter1664 Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:20 PM Subject: Europa-List: NG Tailplanes & Anti-Servo Trim Tabs I seem to be stumbling from one problem to another at the minute. Maybe it's me inexperience! Whilst waiting for an answer on my Tailplane Torque tube issue I though I would complete the quick build Tailplanes. This is achieved by bonding the bottom skin and the tip using araldite 420. This was completed with only minor problems along the way. However, fitting the Anti-servo trim tabs is another matter. I've not approached Europa with this yet as I wanted to see if anyone else had overcome the problem. The anti-servo tab now comes pre-built but this is not reflected in the manual. The issue is that if I align the trailing edge of the trim tab with that of the tailplane there is insufficient trailing edge at the root to attach the trim tab to and there would be restricted movement of the trim tab. there are 'trim lines' on the tailplane training edge and trim tab upper leading edge however trimming them to these lines would make the anti-servo tab extend proud of the tailplane trailing edge, is this normal? I've attached some photos which I hope highlight the issue. ! Any ideas? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441191#441191 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0429_113.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0426_649.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0425_407.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2015
Subject: Re: Fly In to Sanicole, EBLE 3-5 July 2015
From: houlihan <houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Hi David / Barry I read this on the Belgium AIP website 2 REQUIREMENT TO SUBMIT A FLIGHT PLAN A flight plan shall be submitted prior to operating: 1. any FLT or portion thereof to be provided with ATC service 2. any FLT above FL 660 3. any FLT across international borders 4. any FLT at night, if leaving the vicinity of an AD. Note 1: A pilot may, if he wishes, submit a flight plan for any FLT. A pilot is advised to submit a flight plan if he intends to fly over sparsely populated areas, particularly if his ACFT is not equipped with radio. Note 2: With regard to point c) above, a pilot is not required to use the flight plan when planning FLTs from the Schengen area into non-controlled airspace in the Belgian part of the Brussels FIR. See item "C" and note 2 , so I guess flying into Belgium is ok but what about leaving ? read http://www.belgocontrol.be/website/eaip/eAIP_Main/html/index-en-GB.htm l to see if I am correct. Tim On 28 April 2015 at 11:21, tennant wrote: m > > > > Duncan, > > I just read this in the Belgian AIP: > ----------------------------------- > The carriage and operation of mode S transponders with Basic Functionalit y > is mandatory in the Brussels FIR/UIR airspace for all aircraft operating: > =A2in civil class C airspace > =A2in civil class D airspace > =A2in class G airspace for VFR flights at night. > > The carriage and operation of a serviceable transponder - capable of > replying to Mode A and C interrogations - is mandatory in the Brussels > FIR/UIR airspace for all aircraft operating in military controlled airspa ce. > ------------------------------------- > > It appears that for VFR day flights no mode S is necessary. > > Please correct me if I am wrong, before I do something silly! > ---------------------------------------- > David, > I had not heard of the mentioned Shengen changes. Where can I read about > it?? > > Best regards > > Barry Tennant > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441429#441429 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2015
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Center Flap Hinge
Hi Folks, Doing my annual condition check and flipped the right wing over to get to the aileron bellcrank and noticed my center flap hinge (the one on the flap) has pulled out about 1/32nd of an inch. Obviously its loose but pulling on it will not budge it any further. Couldn't have scuffed it up enough before bonding it in. It took some effort but it did go back down. Soooo ... what to do?? Anyone else seen anything like it - it has taken 15 years for it to suddenly shift! Must have been a bit of turbulence. Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Woodcomp sr3000/3
From: "bke13" <bkerl(at)live.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2015
Could somebody please post me a copy of the Woodcomp sr3000/3 Propellor assembly manual. Thank you Regards Bruce Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441487#441487 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Woodcomp sr3000/3
Bruce, I have one on paper and I believe CD and can let you have either, but they relate to my prop which was the mark 1 SR 3000. The models being produced now have a totally different mechanism. Suggest give me a ring. Regards, David On 2015-04-29 12:42, bke13 wrote: > > Could somebody please post me a copy of the Woodcomp sr3000/3 > Propellor assembly manual. > Thank you > Regards > Bruce > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441487#441487 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441487#441487 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2015
From: Steven Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY
We will be preparing Hamburgers, Brats and NATHANS FAMOUS Hot Dogs for all that fly in. Just as New Yorks 21 Club has become known as the HAPPENING PLACE to be and be seen, EAA 21 Club is the place to be on the first Saturday of each month. When: May 2, June 6, July 4, Aug 1, Sept 5, Oct 3, 2015 10:00 AM till 2:00 PM Central time. Where: Henderson Kentucky City-County Airport (KEHR) If KEHR is VFR then we will be cooking the best Gourmet Burgers, Brats and Dogs this side of Sporty's. EAA Chapter 21 will be flying Young Eagles at the May 2nd Fly-In. Young Eagles must be between 8 and 17 years of age and have a parent or guardian with them. http://www.eaa21.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: First Fueling
Date: Apr 30, 2015
A few days ago I posted of my frustrations at being unable to get fuel to my MPEFI engine, notwithstanding dual parallel hi-pressure fuel pumps, requisite filters, a gascolator, proper venting, etc. I feared I was headed down the dark, winding rabbit hole implicit with any one-off, unique engine installation. After much testing and head scratching, I finally found that the fuel pumpsaccessible in the context of experimental aircraft, but nonetheless more challenging to remove than anticipatedinstalled by yours trulyhad their polarity reversedbingo. no need to spell out the lesson here w/ much chagrin, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2015
Subject: Engine offset shims
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
I have just mounted the engine. My question is does any one remember what the effect of each shim is...my offset is 8mm and I need 26mm - I am just trying to avoid the trial and error (being lazy). yours Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2015
Subject: Re: Engine offset shims
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Forget that...being stupid...it's 5:1 ratio between the mount roughly 4" from cwntre line and the measuring point 20" from the centre line Will On May 2, 2015 1:11 PM, "William Daniell" wrote: > I have just mounted the engine. > > My question is does any one remember what the effect of each shim is...my > offset is 8mm and I need 26mm - I am just trying to avoid the trial and > error (being lazy). > yours > > Will > > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2015
Subject: leftovers
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Im getting pretty close to finishing...except for instruments I have a couple of leftovers which concerns me 1. Bronze bearing AIC 060816 (AA521-11) 3/8 ID x 1/2 OD x 1L. 2. 3 Bronze bearings AIC 040604 AA304-35 1/4 ID x 3/8 OD x 1/4L. - These are used for the flap control arm fL 16. I definitely have these in the right place. Is there anywhere else they are used? 3. EURO 04: 1/2" ID x 1 1/2" OD washer 4. EURO 36: 1/2" ID x 1"OD washer 5. Euro 20 No10 ID x 1OD washer - these are large flat steel washers. Can anyone help please yours Will William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" <pmdental(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Prop drive lugs
Date: May 04, 2015
Hi to all,- hope you can help. Trying to fit drive lugs (x6) into prop flange ?? 1) They are very very tight & I'm worried about getting them halfway in & then not being able to take them out again ??? 2) How do you put enough force on them anyway? - you cannot tap them in from the back as the gearbox is in the way ? Is there a special clamp to draw them in ( can't use a normal G-clamp)? Should they be lightly trimmed to ease their fitment??? Thankyou in advance. Paul Munford Kit 625 NG trigear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2015
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Prop drive lugs
PaulI used a short bolt (with the same thread of course) and a larger socke t bit and a washer to draw them in.It helps to soak them in a freezer too.G raham On Monday, 4 May 2015, 18:39, Paul & Vanessa Munford wrote: Hi to all,- hope you can help. Trying to fit drive lugs (x6) into prop fl ange ?? 1) They are very very tight & I'm worried about getting them halfwa y in=C2- & then not being able to take them out again ??? 2) How do you =C2-put enough force on them anyway? - you cannot tap them in from the ba ck as the gearbox is in the way=C2-? Is there a special clamp to draw the m in ( can't use a normal G-clamp)? Should they be lightly trimmed to ease their fitment??? Thankyou in advance. Paul Munford Kit 625 NG trigear=C2- =C2-=C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Prop drive lugs
Date: May 04, 2015
Hi Paul Use a short length of tube with a larger diameter than the lug as a reaction point on the back face of the prop flange to allow the lug to be drawn into position using a threaded rod with plate washers behind the nuts. Don=99t what ever you do hit it with a hammer and don=99t trim them either. Best of luck Richard From: Paul & Vanessa Munford Sent: Monday, May 4, 2015 6:37 PM Subject: Europa-List: Prop drive lugs Hi to all,- hope you can help. Trying to fit drive lugs (x6) into prop flange ?? 1) They are very very tight & I'm worried about getting them halfway in & then not being able to take them out again ??? 2) How do you put enough force on them anyway? - you cannot tap them in from the back as the gearbox is in the way ? Is there a special clamp to draw them in ( can't use a normal G-clamp)? Should they be lightly trimmed to ease their fitment??? Thankyou in advance. Paul Munford Kit 625 NG trigear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2015
Subject: Re: Prop drive lugs
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Paul, it pays to add some graphite based lubricant to help prevent galling as you pull them in. On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Paul & Vanessa Munford < pmdental(at)btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi to all,- hope you can help. Trying to fit drive lugs (x6) into prop > flange ?? 1) They are very very tight & I'm worried about getting them > halfway in & then not being able to take them out again ??? 2) How do > you put enough force on them anyway? - you cannot tap them in from the back > as the gearbox is in the way ? Is there a special clamp to draw them in ( > can't use a normal G-clamp)? Should they be lightly trimmed to ease their > fitment??? Thankyou in advance. Paul Munford Kit 625 NG trigear > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2015
Subject: Re: leftovers
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Between Europa and myself we have tracked down most of these items. the lesson is that some of the kits are supplied with extra stuff and although one does an inventory you may end up with some leftovers. William Daniell LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744 On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:34 PM, William Daniell wrote: > Im getting pretty close to finishing...except for instruments > > I have a couple of leftovers which concerns me > > 1. Bronze bearing AIC 060816 (AA521-11) 3/8 ID x 1/2 OD x 1L. > =8B THIS IS FROM A MONO LANDING GEAR=8B > 2. 3 Bronze bearings AIC 040604 AA304-35 1/4 ID x 3/8 OD x 1/4L. > - These are used for the flap control arm fL 16. I definitely have > these in the right place. Is there anywhere else they are used? > =8B NO...THE FLAP ARM IS THE ONLY PLACE THEY ARE USED =8B > 3. EURO 04: 1/2" ID x 1 1/2" OD washer > =8B THIS WAS DISCARDED WITH MOD 59 - NOSE GEAR MOD=8B > 4. EURO 36: 1/2" ID x 1"OD washer > 5. Euro 20 No10 ID x 1OD washer - these are large flat steel washers. > > Can anyone help please > > yours > > Will > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +57 310 295 0744 > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2015
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?FlyIn_Wyk_auf_F=C3=B6hr_=2D_Germany_2015?
From: stephan cassel <stephan.cassel(at)gmail.com>
Dear Europa friends, FlyIn Wyk auf F=C3=B6hr - Germany 2015 29/5-31/5 is approaching very fast. Please tune in http://europa-nordic.scassel.se/ for the latest update. In short: Friday - Scandinavian "sm=C3=B8rg=C3=A5sbord" at the airfield. Please add s omething small to the table. Saturday - Sightseeing + Hangar party. A small fee can be expected. Please note that it is cash only at the airfield. There are cash machines on the island. Most welcome Claus and Stephan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" <pmdental(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: prop drive lugs
Date: May 06, 2015
Hi all, thanks fo all your useful advice,- I feel like such a dimwit sometimes !! Propdrive lugs duly fitted as suggested, no dramas !! Thanks again. Paul Munford kit 625 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Skyforce Tracker IIIC GPS card upgrades.......
Date: May 11, 2015
Hi! All, I recently circulated a message about getting upgrades done around the 23rd April to get the best return for the cost (Most of the upgrade material would be maximised)since the responsibilities for the unit will be transferred to Muirhead Avionics . However it now transpires that the original Honeywell Boxgrove facility are retaining the NAVDATA mapping and software updates for all products and manufacture. BUT Muirhead Avionics WILL handle all hardware repair and overhaul. Honeywell Phone No is :- +44(0) 1243 783763. Muirhead phone No is :- +44(0) 208571 3422. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Regards Bob Harrison Europa G-PTAG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FlyIn Wyk auf =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=C3=B6hr?= - Germany 2015
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Date: May 11, 2015
I think there is no Mogas available at Wyk and as the Rotax doesn't like lead, I'll refuel at Heide-Bsum http://www.eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnisb.php?ueicao=EDXB http://edxb.work.de/index.php?article_id which is some 35 NM south of Wyk. Just for information. Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441996#441996 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com>
Subject: Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_FlyIn_Wyk_auf_F=C3=B6hr_-_Germany?= =?utf-8?Q?_2015?
Date: May 11, 2015
Thanks for the info. Dave Park G-LDVO Sent from my iPhone > On 11 May 2015, at 15:25, Roland wrote: > > > I think there is no Mogas available at Wyk and as the Rotax doesn't like lead, I'll refuel at Heide-Bsum > > http://www.eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnisb.php?ueicao=EDXB > http://edxb.work.de/index.php?article_id > > which is some 35 NM south of Wyk. > > Just for information. > > Regards > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS Trigear 914 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441996#441996 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
From: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2015
Hi All, During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a tide mark. The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well as floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various duffer series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly attentive to the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link to a recent change that I have carried out. If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative measures I would like to know? Best regards John -------- Europa mono Nr 192 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 11, 2015
Hi John, I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). My fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial throttIe- back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down to one of the carbs flooding after take off and changed the float needles to the latest type and the problem seemed to go away. Rotax have tried three different spring strengths for the float needles so there must be a problem they were trying to fix. The problem came back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in other reports of this problem. Regards Brian Davies. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnFrance Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Hi All, During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a tide mark. The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well as floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various duffer series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly attentive to the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link to a recent change that I have carried out. If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative measures I would like to know? Best regards John -------- Europa mono Nr 192 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" <pmdental(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Grills on intakes
Date: May 11, 2015
Hi all, Just doing the cowlings,- any thoughts please on fitting the intakes with grills to prevent F.O.D or would this impair cooling ?? Thanx in advance for any ideas. Paul Munford kit 625 tri, 912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dpy01 <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 11, 2015
If you have recently dropped the fuel bowel check the gasket has seated correctly when you have reassembled. Are the floats, floating correct. See the service bulletin on sinking floats. There is a tool for checking that the float operated valve actually has the correct pressure applied when the bowls are full and the floats are floating Also the new mech pump is higher pressure and can overcome floats if not applying the right pressure on the fuel shutoff valve. Alan iRMT G-OBJT Sent from my iPhone > On 11 May 2015, at 19:22, Brian Davies wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). My > fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial throttIe- > back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down to one of the carbs > flooding after take off and changed the float needles to the latest type and > the problem seemed to go away. Rotax have tried three different spring > strengths for the float needles so there must be a problem they were trying > to fix. The problem came back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in > other reports of this problem. > > Regards > > Brian Davies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnFrance > Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > > > Hi All, > During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin > just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. > > I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of > several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching > fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. > > One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a tide > mark. > The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well as > floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various duffer > series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! > Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly attentive to > the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. > > I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link to a > recent change that I have carried out. > > If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative measures I > would like to know? > Best regards > John > > -------- > Europa mono Nr 192 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Grills on intakes
Date: May 11, 2015
Hi! Paul and Vanessa, Now why the dickens would you need grills on the intakes when anything likely to enter would have been shredded by the prop first? Sorry to answer your question with another question ? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG 914 though ! From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul & Vanessa Munford Sent: 11 May 2015 20:08 Subject: Europa-List: Grills on intakes Hi all, Just doing the cowlings,- any thoughts please on fitting the intakes with grills to prevent F.O.D or would this impair cooling ?? Thanx in advance for any ideas. Paul Munford kit 625 tri, 912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 12, 2015
Hi all, You may well find it nothing to do with the engine. Look at the inlet fuel cobra pipe connection to the fuel cap, the rubber pipe from the cobra to the tank, and the connection between the rubber pipe and fuel tank. Also the condition of the rubber pipe. All have the potential to give off smells and on take off, with a full tank, the higher pitch attitude can do this. Kind regards, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 12/05/2015, at 7:17 am, dpy01 wrote: > > > If you have recently dropped the fuel bowel check the gasket has seated correctly when you have reassembled. > > Are the floats, floating correct. See the service bulletin on sinking floats. > > There is a tool for checking that the float operated valve actually has the correct pressure applied when the bowls are full and the floats are floating > > Also the new mech pump is higher pressure and can overcome floats if not applying the right pressure on the fuel shutoff valve. > > Alan > iRMT > G-OBJT > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 11 May 2015, at 19:22, Brian Davies wrote: >> >> >> Hi John, >> >> I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). My >> fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial throttIe- >> back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down to one of the carbs >> flooding after take off and changed the float needles to the latest type and >> the problem seemed to go away. Rotax have tried three different spring >> strengths for the float needles so there must be a problem they were trying >> to fix. The problem came back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in >> other reports of this problem. >> >> Regards >> >> Brian Davies. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnFrance >> Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 >> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff >> >> >> Hi All, >> During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin >> just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. >> >> I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of >> several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching >> fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. >> >> One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a tide >> mark. >> The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well as >> floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various duffer >> series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! >> Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly attentive to >> the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. >> >> I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link to a >> recent change that I have carried out. >> >> If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative measures I >> would like to know? >> Best regards >> John >> >> -------- >> Europa mono Nr 192 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?= <standa.svec(at)volny.cz>
Subject: XTreme EMS from MGL Avionics
Date: May 12, 2015
Hi all, I would like to install the XTreme EMS from MGL Avionics for engine monitoring my Rotax 914 UL. But at the same time I am very afraid to do it. My friend, flyer and very good technician, had in his aircraft the Odyssey EFIS from this company. And he made a bitter experience. After 6 months never ending technical problems he gave up this device and bought the Dynon EFIS. And now, fully satisfied. His advice is - MGL products never more ! My goal is, to buy, to install and to fly. I have no time, no mental and economical power to solve bad device design etc. . . But perhaps the situation by MGL is changing and perhaps the XTreme EMS is different from Odyssey, perhaps this device is trouble free. Please, is somebody here flying this engine monitor? Experiences and recommendations? Thanks very much for responses. Regards Stanislav ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2015
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Le 11/05/2015 19:38, JohnFrance a crit : > > Hi All, > During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. > > I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. John and all, Please allow me to chime in. - Considering the Rotax layout, no drip tray means some fuel *will* drip or leak direct onto the superheated exhaust pipes. So, I'd say *do reinstall the drip trays*. Whoever gave yout the advice you mentioned is not aware of the necessity to drain them with a fire resistant hose to a safe place under the airplane. No amount of fuel should be allowed to stand in the drip trays themselves. - The FWL should be gas tight, whatever the conditions under the cowl. So even with carbs flooding, no fumes should enter the cockpit. I suggest you perform a thorough check of the firewall, or at the very least do the "lamp-under-the-cowl" night test. FWIW, Best regards Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: XTreme EMS from MGL Avionics
Stanislav, I have had one fitted and running nicely in my plane for 9 months, with no problems. The guy at the agents , Parts4aircraft also proved very knowledgeable and helpful during the fitting process. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-12 06:22, Stanislav vec wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like to install the XTreme EMS from MGL Avionics for engine monitoring my Rotax 914 UL. > > But at the same time I am very afraid to do it. > > My friend, flyer and very good technician, had in his aircraft the Odyssey EFIS from this company. > > And he made a bitter experience. After 6 months never ending technical problems he gave up this device and bought the Dynon EFIS. And now, fully satisfied. > > His advice is - MGL products never more ! > > My goal is, to buy, to install and to fly. I have no time, no mental and economical power to solve bad device design etc. . > > But perhaps the situation by MGL is changing and perhaps the XTreme EMS is different from Odyssey, perhaps this device is trouble free. > > Please, is somebody here flying this engine monitor? > > Experiences and recommendations? > > Thanks very much for responses. > > Regards > > Stanislav > Links: ------ [1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] http://forums.matronics.com [3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Grills on intakes
Paul, Overheating issues are very common with most prop/unmodified cowling set ups, suggesting it is a bad idea to put anything in that will reducecooling air flow. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-11 20:08, Paul & Vanessa Munford wrote: > Hi all, Just doing the cowlings,- any thoughts please on fitting the intakes with grills to prevent F.O.D or would this impair cooling ?? Thanx in advance for any ideas. Paul Munford kit 625 tri, 912ULS > Links: ------ [1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] http://forums.matronics.com [3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 12, 2015
Hi Gilles, I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible to achieve. Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower fuselage and enter the flap slots. The air then moves forward through the tunnel and comes up through the control points. The flow is different between Mono and Trigear but the end result is fuel leaks "under the bonnet" can be detected in the cockpit. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 12 May 2015 08:24 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Le 11/05/2015 19:38, JohnFrance a crit : > > Hi All, > During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. > > I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. John and all, Please allow me to chime in. - Considering the Rotax layout, no drip tray means some fuel *will* drip or leak direct onto the superheated exhaust pipes. So, I'd say *do reinstall the drip trays*. Whoever gave yout the advice you mentioned is not aware of the necessity to drain them with a fire resistant hose to a safe place under the airplane. No amount of fuel should be allowed to stand in the drip trays themselves. - The FWL should be gas tight, whatever the conditions under the cowl. So even with carbs flooding, no fumes should enter the cockpit. I suggest you perform a thorough check of the firewall, or at the very least do the "lamp-under-the-cowl" night test. FWIW, Best regards Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 12, 2015
Hi Tim, I thought it must be coming from the areas you suggest, based on the history of fuel smells in a Europa. I filled my tank until the cobra pipe was completely full and sat the aircraft on its tail (it is a Trigear) and left it for half an hour and then did a very detailed sniff/wipe/visual inspection of all of the pipe work. - no sign of a leak and no smell. I have the ally pipe in place of the rubber pipe joining the cobra to the tank. The only evidence of fuel leaks I have found are fuel stains below the small hole in the plenum chamber on the left side. I assumed that fuel was overflowing from the left carb float chamber vent pipe which goes into the plenum chamber and then out through the drain hole. This only makes sense when the engine is not running because I would have thought that, in flight, any overflow would be sucked into the carb intake but maybe I am wrong. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timward Sent: 11 May 2015 21:58 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Hi all, You may well find it nothing to do with the engine. Look at the inlet fuel cobra pipe connection to the fuel cap, the rubber pipe from the cobra to the tank, and the connection between the rubber pipe and fuel tank. Also the condition of the rubber pipe. All have the potential to give off smells and on take off, with a full tank, the higher pitch attitude can do this. Kind regards, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 12/05/2015, at 7:17 am, dpy01 wrote: > > > If you have recently dropped the fuel bowel check the gasket has seated correctly when you have reassembled. > > Are the floats, floating correct. See the service bulletin on sinking floats. > > There is a tool for checking that the float operated valve actually > has the correct pressure applied when the bowls are full and the > floats are floating > > Also the new mech pump is higher pressure and can overcome floats if not applying the right pressure on the fuel shutoff valve. > > Alan > iRMT > G-OBJT > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 11 May 2015, at 19:22, Brian Davies wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Hi John, >> >> I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). >> My fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial >> throttIe- back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down to >> one of the carbs flooding after take off and changed the float >> needles to the latest type and the problem seemed to go away. Rotax >> have tried three different spring strengths for the float needles so >> there must be a problem they were trying to fix. The problem came >> back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in other reports of this problem. >> >> Regards >> >> Brian Davies. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> JohnFrance >> Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 >> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after >> takeoff >> >> --> <77alembert(at)gmail.com> >> >> Hi All, >> During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in >> the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. >> >> I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice >> of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips >> catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. >> >> One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a >> tide mark. >> The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well >> as floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various >> duffer series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! >> Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly >> attentive to the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. >> >> I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link >> to a recent change that I have carried out. >> >> If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative >> measures I would like to know? >> Best regards >> John >> >> -------- >> Europa mono Nr 192 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 12, 2015
Brian, My fuel smell came from the Redux join between the cobra and the fuel inlet cap. After searching the possible engine fuel leaks including the one you have in the plenum chamber, I finally tracked it down to the fuel inlet seal with the cobra. Effectively the fuel was venting out the join, particularly noticeable on take off, as well as the normal fuel vent. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 12/05/2015, at 9:35 pm, Brian Davies wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > I thought it must be coming from the areas you suggest, based on the history > of fuel smells in a Europa. I filled my tank until the cobra pipe was > completely full and sat the aircraft on its tail (it is a Trigear) and left > it for half an hour and then did a very detailed sniff/wipe/visual > inspection of all of the pipe work. - no sign of a leak and no smell. > > I have the ally pipe in place of the rubber pipe joining the cobra to the > tank. > > The only evidence of fuel leaks I have found are fuel stains below the small > hole in the plenum chamber on the left side. I assumed that fuel was > overflowing from the left carb float chamber vent pipe which goes into the > plenum chamber and then out through the drain hole. This only makes sense > when the engine is not running because I would have thought that, in flight, > any overflow would be sucked into the carb intake but maybe I am wrong. > > Regards > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timward > Sent: 11 May 2015 21:58 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > > > Hi all, > You may well find it nothing to do with the engine. > Look at the inlet fuel cobra pipe connection to the fuel cap, the rubber > pipe from the cobra to the tank, and the connection between the rubber pipe > and fuel tank. Also the condition of the rubber pipe. > All have the potential to give off smells and on take off, with a full tank, > the higher pitch attitude can do this. > > Kind regards, > > Tim > > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > >> On 12/05/2015, at 7:17 am, dpy01 wrote: >> >> >> If you have recently dropped the fuel bowel check the gasket has seated > correctly when you have reassembled. >> >> Are the floats, floating correct. See the service bulletin on sinking > floats. >> >> There is a tool for checking that the float operated valve actually >> has the correct pressure applied when the bowls are full and the >> floats are floating >> >> Also the new mech pump is higher pressure and can overcome floats if not > applying the right pressure on the fuel shutoff valve. >> >> Alan >> iRMT >> G-OBJT >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 11 May 2015, at 19:22, Brian Davies wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). >>> My fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial >>> throttIe- back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down to >>> one of the carbs flooding after take off and changed the float >>> needles to the latest type and the problem seemed to go away. Rotax >>> have tried three different spring strengths for the float needles so >>> there must be a problem they were trying to fix. The problem came >>> back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in other reports of this > problem. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Brian Davies. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> JohnFrance >>> Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 >>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after >>> takeoff >>> >>> --> <77alembert(at)gmail.com> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in >>> the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 > minutes. >>> >>> I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice >>> of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips >>> catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. >>> >>> One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a >>> tide mark. >>> The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well >>> as floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various >>> duffer series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! >>> Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly >>> attentive to the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. >>> >>> I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link >>> to a recent change that I have carried out. >>> >>> If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative >>> measures I would like to know? >>> Best regards >>> John >>> >>> -------- >>> Europa mono Nr 192 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 12, 2015
Thanks Tim, I will check that again. I did have a small leak from there after initial build and resealed it but maybe somethings moved. Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timward Sent: 12 May 2015 10:58 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Brian, My fuel smell came from the Redux join between the cobra and the fuel inlet cap. After searching the possible engine fuel leaks including the one you have in the plenum chamber, I finally tracked it down to the fuel inlet seal with the cobra. Effectively the fuel was venting out the join, particularly noticeable on take off, as well as the normal fuel vent. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 12/05/2015, at 9:35 pm, Brian Davies wrote: > > --> > > Hi Tim, > > I thought it must be coming from the areas you suggest, based on the > history of fuel smells in a Europa. I filled my tank until the cobra > pipe was completely full and sat the aircraft on its tail (it is a > Trigear) and left it for half an hour and then did a very detailed > sniff/wipe/visual inspection of all of the pipe work. - no sign of a leak and no smell. > > I have the ally pipe in place of the rubber pipe joining the cobra to > the tank. > > The only evidence of fuel leaks I have found are fuel stains below the > small hole in the plenum chamber on the left side. I assumed that > fuel was overflowing from the left carb float chamber vent pipe which > goes into the plenum chamber and then out through the drain hole. > This only makes sense when the engine is not running because I would > have thought that, in flight, any overflow would be sucked into the carb intake but maybe I am wrong. > > Regards > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timward > Sent: 11 May 2015 21:58 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after > takeoff > > > Hi all, > You may well find it nothing to do with the engine. > Look at the inlet fuel cobra pipe connection to the fuel cap, the > rubber pipe from the cobra to the tank, and the connection between the > rubber pipe and fuel tank. Also the condition of the rubber pipe. > All have the potential to give off smells and on take off, with a full > tank, the higher pitch attitude can do this. > > Kind regards, > > Tim > > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > >> On 12/05/2015, at 7:17 am, dpy01 wrote: >> >> >> If you have recently dropped the fuel bowel check the gasket has >> seated > correctly when you have reassembled. >> >> Are the floats, floating correct. See the service bulletin on sinking > floats. >> >> There is a tool for checking that the float operated valve actually >> has the correct pressure applied when the bowls are full and the >> floats are floating >> >> Also the new mech pump is higher pressure and can overcome floats if >> not > applying the right pressure on the fuel shutoff valve. >> >> Alan >> iRMT >> G-OBJT >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 11 May 2015, at 19:22, Brian Davies wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> I have had almost the same problem on my aircraft (Trigear 912ULS). >>> My fuel smell seems at its worst soon after take off and at initial >>> throttIe- back at about 1000 ft. I thought I had narrowed it down >>> to one of the carbs flooding after take off and changed the float >>> needles to the latest type and the problem seemed to go away. Rotax >>> have tried three different spring strengths for the float needles so >>> there must be a problem they were trying to fix. The problem came >>> back a few weeks ago so I am also interested in other reports of >>> this > problem. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Brian Davies. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> JohnFrance >>> Sent: 11 May 2015 18:38 >>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after >>> takeoff >>> >>> --> <77alembert(at)gmail.com> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in >>> the cabin just after take off and while in the climb, it lasted >>> about 2 > minutes. >>> >>> I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice >>> of several people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips >>> catching fire than a bigger volume that has been heated up. >>> >>> One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a >>> tide mark. >>> The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well >>> as floats and pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various >>> duffer series so I must admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! >>> Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly >>> attentive to the starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. >>> >>> I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the >>> link to a recent change that I have carried out. >>> >>> If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative >>> measures I would like to know? >>> Best regards >>> John >>> >>> -------- >>> Europa mono Nr 192 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442016#442016 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2015
From: George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
John, This reminds me that I had a smell of petrol in my cockpit when parked in the hangar. I eventually noticed that there was a fuel tank leak. Recently I sealed it. I will see if the smell has disappeared. Perhaps there is a leak in your fuel tank in a place above the fuel level when parked but below the fuel level when taking off and climbing. It is not clear to me if your Europa is a monowheel, a tailwheel or a nosewheel version. Perhaps you could check if there are leaks in the fuel tank at a place which would be above the fuel level when parked but below when taking off and climbing. Good luck with this. George On 12/05/2015 09:03, Europa-List Digest Server wrote: > Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > From: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com> > > > Hi All, > During a flight yesterday I had a fairly strong smell of petrol in the cabin just > after take off and while in the climb, it lasted about 2 minutes. > > I recently removed the drip trays from under the carbs on the advice of several > people. Their view was, it's better to have a few drips catching fire than a > bigger volume that has been heated up. > > One of the trays did have a horizontal ring around the inside like a tide mark. > The float chambers of both carbs were cleaned and inspected as well as floats and > pins for wear. The floats are not part of the various duffer series so I must > admit I didn't weigh them. Perhaps I should have! > Upon reassembly I pressurized the system and was particularly attentive to the > starboard one that had the "tide mark" inside the tray. > > I don't have any proof of the origin of the smell but I made the link to a recent > change that I have carried out. > > If anyone has any ideas how I might trace the problem or curative measures I would > like to know? > Best regards > John > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2015
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Brian, Thank you for the information. > I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the Europa, > with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible to achieve. I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows, like on vintage aircraft. > Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower > fuselage and enter the flap slots. This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way... Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Grills on intakes
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2015
Paul, You did not specify which intakes on the cowl. Nonetheless, adding resistance to any of them is not a good idea in my opinion, short of a detailed CFD analysis to demonstrate adequate airflow, heat transfer and minimal parasitic airframe drag. Have you ever seen them in other aircraft? -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442067#442067 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 13, 2015
Hi Gilles, I think leather bellows is probably the way to go. I have been chasing higher than normal CO levels on my aircraft, hence the research into airflows from the engine compartment. I have been looking at bellows around the pitch tube behind the baggage bay to close off the airflow through the flap slots and forward through the tunnel. I am ,however, struggling to understand why I should have a problem on my aircraft when others are not reporting problems. The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within limits. I am getting 11 - 20 ppm in cruise and up to 35ppm on approach with the flaps down, with a normal limit of 50ppm for GA aircraft but zero would be better! Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 12 May 2015 23:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Brian, Thank you for the information. > I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the > Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible to achieve. I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows, like on vintage aircraft. > Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower > fuselage and enter the flap slots. This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way... Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2015
From: GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Le 13/05/2015 11:46, Brian Davies a crit : > > > The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know > the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within > limits. Hi Brian, So true^^! Also the higher the number of parameters measured, the higher the amount of head scratching... Best regards ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 14, 2015
Hi Gilles & Brian Watching your email thread I would like to add my 2 pennies, I was aware that there was a problem with exhaust gasses entering the cabin through the flap slots on each side of the fuselage so I made a bulk head from the rear of the baggage bay floor to the floor of the aircraft [in 2 pieces] I am going to seal them air tight with foam rubber so that under the baggage bay is air tight to the cabin. I have had only one problem associated with engine smells from the start and that is a smell of fuel when I switch on the electric fuel pump. Fuel pressure remain the same with fuel pump no or off. No leaks found so far its very strange. Regards Richard G-CGZV Tri-gear 912ul 115hrs -----Original Message----- From: Brian Davies Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Hi Gilles, I think leather bellows is probably the way to go. I have been chasing higher than normal CO levels on my aircraft, hence the research into airflows from the engine compartment. I have been looking at bellows around the pitch tube behind the baggage bay to close off the airflow through the flap slots and forward through the tunnel. I am ,however, struggling to understand why I should have a problem on my aircraft when others are not reporting problems. The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within limits. I am getting 11 - 20 ppm in cruise and up to 35ppm on approach with the flaps down, with a normal limit of 50ppm for GA aircraft but zero would be better! Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 12 May 2015 23:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Brian, Thank you for the information. > I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the > Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible to achieve. I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows, like on vintage aircraft. > Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower > fuselage and enter the flap slots. This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way... Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FWF Seal
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: May 14, 2015
Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FWF Seal
Date: May 14, 2015
Looks like; Silicone Baffle Seal here: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=T01VKIAZ1 alan On 14 May 2015, at 20:37, spcialeffects wrote: > > Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: FWF Seal
If you are just looking for a sealant for holes in the firewall carrying cables or hoses, go to a plumbers merchant and get a heat resistant silicone, which is used to seal around boiler flues. Resistant to temps over 250C I believe. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-14 20:37, spcialeffects wrote: > > Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 [1] > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 [2] > Links: ------ [1] http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 [2] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 [3] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [4] http://forums.matronics.com [5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies(at)clara.co.uk>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 15, 2015
Hi Richard, I am not sure I understand what you intend to do regarding sealing. The large diameter pitch control tube passes through the area you are talking about and would require some form of bellows to seal and allow movement- Or have I misunderstood? Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Collings Sent: 14 May 2015 20:21 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff --> Hi Gilles & Brian Watching your email thread I would like to add my 2 pennies, I was aware that there was a problem with exhaust gasses entering the cabin through the flap slots on each side of the fuselage so I made a bulk head from the rear of the baggage bay floor to the floor of the aircraft [in 2 pieces] I am going to seal them air tight with foam rubber so that under the baggage bay is air tight to the cabin. I have had only one problem associated with engine smells from the start and that is a smell of fuel when I switch on the electric fuel pump. Fuel pressure remain the same with fuel pump no or off. No leaks found so far its very strange. Regards Richard G-CGZV Tri-gear 912ul 115hrs -----Original Message----- From: Brian Davies Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff --> Hi Gilles, I think leather bellows is probably the way to go. I have been chasing higher than normal CO levels on my aircraft, hence the research into airflows from the engine compartment. I have been looking at bellows around the pitch tube behind the baggage bay to close off the airflow through the flap slots and forward through the tunnel. I am ,however, struggling to understand why I should have a problem on my aircraft when others are not reporting problems. The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within limits. I am getting 11 - 20 ppm in cruise and up to 35ppm on approach with the flaps down, with a normal limit of 50ppm for GA aircraft but zero would be better! Regards Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH Sent: 12 May 2015 23:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Brian, Thank you for the information. > I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the > Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually > impossible to achieve. I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows, like on vintage aircraft. > Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower > fuselage and enter the flap slots. This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way... Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 15, 2015
Brian and Gilles, Great discussion topic. I had a bit of a problem in 12AY. I was normally asphyxiated by 5000 feet on a climb out by exhaust smell. I foolishly placed my NACA duct about half way up the port side. The exhaust from my stack on the 914 followed the prop wash and wing up-wash right into the duct. NASTY. OK in cruise, but went directly into the vent on climb out. Moved to the Ultimate Ventilators in the windscreen and have been problem free. Exhaust/CO caused me to seal the NACA, wing fillet on the port side tightly, and of course the firewall. Firewall seals were easy using RTV or silicone sealant. Rudders were not the problem. Grease the tubes and then RTV the small gap. Wait till dry and move the rudders and it was done. Mono's are a particular problem. Bellows work well to seal the rudder cable holes. Our flat firewall has much smaller cable holes and can be sealed by riveting on a piece of Red silicone cowl seal and make a slit in it. Not perfect but simple and effective... The mono tends to allow air into the cockpit through the handles. Tough to seal, but for winter comfort, necessary. Fuel smell haunted me for the first year or so. I got rid of the rubber fuel inlet hose, and more importantly sealed the fuel tank to filler neck with just a bit of ProSeal. The fuel sender gasket would smell of fuel and leak when filled to the neck just a bit. Again, proper sealing fixed that. Changing to R14 or proper VOC compliant fuel line took care of that lingering smell caused by the ethanol car fuel and additives. Pitty no one I know produces a braded fuel hose which is ethanol fuel smell (VOC) compliant for the mono tunnel. Teflon hose works, but gets brittle and cracks. Nothing is perfect. Common fuel smell/ leaks: Overflowing carb float bowls which were not tested properly. Improperly seated carb bowls. Drain lines venting into the mono hole which goes directly to the cockpit it seams. Fuel tank fittings over or under tightened. Fuel tank sender gaskets. Fuel tank inlet hose and vent line leaks. Sealing techniques for the CO: Exhaust leaks in the 912S on the XS exhaust muffler are terrible. I am trying a high temp sealant for the ball joints in the muffler to pipe connection. We'll know more in a couple weeks. (Look for soot which is brown streaks running up the exhaust pipes. Often these jets of gas are directly hitting the carbs.) Exhaust pipe to head seals leaking. (Use lapping compound and rotate the pipe side to side until a seal is achieved at the proper pipe angle.) The 914 exhaust seems trouble free. Exhaust muffler pipe cowl exit placement can't be changed much, but the longer the pipe the better it seems. Keep air vents far forward, and near the door flange line to prevent port side exhaust smell from entering the vent. On the mono, try to seal up the firewall and keep the drains well off to the side of the cowl exit near the foot well. Seal cockpit holes through the firewall and mono tunnel lever gaps with silicone or similar to seal your tunnel from the cockpit. Wing gap seals need to be filled as well as possible. I use a window/door tape type seal that has a rubber coating and compresses well to seal the gap. With all the above, finally have no fuel/exhaust smells or CO problems. Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: GTH Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff Le 13/05/2015 11:46, Brian Davies a crit : > > > > The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know > the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is > within > limits. Hi Brian, So true^^! Also the higher the number of parameters measured, the higher the amount of head scratching... Best regards ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Italian Trip
I will shortly be closing the booking for the club Italian trip, so anyone interested who has not already been in contact should please do so ASAP. Regards, David Joyce, Europa Club Trips Organiser ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com>
Subject: Re: FWF Seal
Date: May 15, 2015
Demon Tweeks have it Dave G-LDVO On 14 May 2015, at 21:13, Alan Burrill wrote: > Looks like; > > Silicone Baffle Seal > > > here: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=T01VKIAZ1 > > alan > On 14 May 2015, at 20:37, spcialeffects wrote: > >> >> Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks >> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FWF Seal
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: May 15, 2015
Thanks for the replies. Burrilla- it certainly looks like the stuff. Is it fire proof? David- Yes ive already got my 3M fire sealent for industrial boilers which expands the hotter it gets (was advised by ivor phillips on that one) But i liked the look of the installation in the link as i too am lucky enough to have the singleton fire wall which i am fitting instead of the alloy one, however the holes cut into it to get over the landing gear mounting frame are quite big and once over the mounting lugs i think this looks neater rather than filling it with the 3M mastic stuff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442142#442142 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Justin Kennedy <Justin(at)systemwise.co.uk>
Date: May 15, 2015
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
HI Guys, I am a bit reluctant to stick my neck out but I have a possible reason and solution for your smelly climbs. When my Europa was about 2 years old, 9 years now, We had the same problem with fuel smell after take-off and came to a conclusion which has not been mentioned in the discussions on this subject. So here goes. We think it depends on which side you fuel tank vent is on. In this exampl e the vent is in the usual place on the Starboard side top front corner of the tank. So as you climb out into a right hand circuit the right wing is going to be lower than the left for long periods. The fuel in the tank sl urps to the right. The result is a pocket of air trapped on the upper left side of the tank. The size of the pocket of air is dependent on how full th e tank is at the time. As the plane climbs the pressure drops and the pock et of air expands. Assuming the fuel is covering the actual fuel vent on th e right then there is nowhere for the fuel to go other than up the vent and pour over the back of the fuselage. I think that it is this that creates t he smell of fuel that only lasts a short time. We experienced this phenomen on with ours and noticed there was no smell if the tanks were less than abo ut 1/2 full. Also trying to reproduce the problem was easy. After take-off with nearly f ull tanks I flew a long gently curved climb to the right which promptly obl iged with a strong fuel smell. As a result we put in an additional vent on the other side of the tank. There have been no fuel smells in the climb since. Those with this smell could try this and then do it again with 1/2 tanks. Also level up in the climb out every now and then to release the air to the vent on the right and see if it stops it. Obviously your vents may be different but you can apply the theory. There are numerous potential sites for a fuel leak but when it is only in t he climb it has got to be climb related. I notice everyone is most specific about it happening in the climb. I may be talking bunk but it is surely worth discussion J. Fly safe Justin Kennedy G-ZTED Europa Mono 912S Airmaster Prop East of Scotland Strut ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
Date: May 15, 2015
Further to Justin's information below , I have never had fuel smells (other than the usual porous filler suspicions!)but have a different arrangement for venting in that my vent goes up to the ceiling from the starboard side of the tank to a collection bottle aligned to aim down back to the tank filler ( so that it will drain back to tank) but with an overflow connection from the back end of the bottle across the ceiling and down the port side to exit at the port flap hinge slot in the floor. To my knowledge there has never been any fuel lost out the vent or even when overfilling the main tank. Regards to all. Bob Harrison. G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Justin Kennedy Sent: 15 May 2015 21:26 Subject: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff HI Guys, I am a bit reluctant to stick my neck out but I have a possible reason and solution for your smelly climbs. When my Europa was about 2 years old, 9 years now, We had the same problem with fuel smell after take-off and came to a conclusion which has not been mentioned in the discussions on this subject. So here goes. We think it depends on which side you fuel tank vent is on. In this example the vent is in the usual place on the Starboard side top front corner of the tank. So as you climb out into a right hand circuit the right wing is going to be lower than the left for long periods. The fuel in the tank slurps to the right. The result is a pocket of air trapped on the upper left side of the tank. The size of the pocket of air is dependent on how full the tank is at the time. As the plane climbs the pressure drops and the pocket of air expands. Assuming the fuel is covering the actual fuel vent on the right then there is nowhere for the fuel to go other than up the vent and pour over the back of the fuselage. I think that it is this that creates the smell of fuel that only lasts a short time. We experienced this phenomenon with ours and noticed there was no smell if the tanks were less than about 1/2 full. Also trying to reproduce the problem was easy. After take-off with nearly full tanks I flew a long gently curved climb to the right which promptly obliged with a strong fuel smell. As a result we put in an additional vent on the other side of the tank. There have been no fuel smells in the climb since. Those with this smell could try this and then do it again with 1/2 tanks. Also level up in the climb out every now and then to release the air to the vent on the right and see if it stops it. Obviously your vents may be different but you can apply the theory. There are numerous potential sites for a fuel leak but when it is only in the climb it has got to be climb related. I notice everyone is most specific about it happening in the climb. I may be talking bunk but it is surely worth discussion J. Fly safe Justin Kennedy G-ZTED Europa Mono 912S Airmaster Prop East of Scotland Strut ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/14/15
From: John Archer <77alembert(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 16, 2015
Sent from my iPad > On 15 May 2015, at 09:03, Europa-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 15-05-14&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 15-05-14&Archive=Europa > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 05/14/15: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:22 PM - Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff (Richard Collings) > 2. 12:38 PM - FWF Seal (spcialeffects) > 3. 01:14 PM - Re: FWF Seal (Alan Burrill) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings(at)talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > > > Hi Gilles & Brian > Watching your email thread I would like to add my 2 pennies, I was aware > that there was a problem with exhaust gasses entering the cabin through the > flap slots on each side of the fuselage so I made a bulk head from the rear > of the baggage bay floor to the floor of the aircraft [in 2 pieces] I am > going to seal them air tight with foam rubber so that under the baggage bay > is air tight to the cabin. > I have had only one problem associated with engine smells from the start and > that is a smell of fuel when I switch on the electric fuel pump. Fuel > pressure remain the same with fuel pump no or off. No leaks found so far its > very strange. > Regards > Richard > G-CGZV Tri-gear 912ul 115hrs > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Davies > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:46 AM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > > > Hi Gilles, > > I think leather bellows is probably the way to go. I have been chasing > higher than normal CO levels on my aircraft, hence the research into > airflows from the engine compartment. I have been looking at bellows around > the pitch tube behind the baggage bay to close off the airflow through the > flap slots and forward through the tunnel. I am ,however, struggling to > understand why I should have a problem on my aircraft when others are not > reporting problems. > > The trouble with measuring CO with a digital sensor is that once you know > the reading you feel you should do something about it, even if it is within > limits. I am getting 11 - 20 ppm in cruise and up to 35ppm on approach with > the flaps down, with a normal limit of 50ppm for GA aircraft but zero would > be better! > > Regards > > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GTH > Sent: 12 May 2015 23:31 > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff > > > Brian, > > Thank you for the information. >> I know it is good aero practice to have a gas tight FWL but on the >> Europa, with rudder cables passing through it, it is actually impossible > to achieve. > > I would have thought that it could be easily addressed with leather bellows, > like on vintage aircraft. > >> Also the external airflow from the engine area can attach to the lower >> fuselage and enter the flap slots. > > This one beats me, but when there is a will there is a way... > > Best regards, > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Europa-List: FWF Seal > From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> > > > Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is called and possibly > where i might buy some, Many thanks > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: FWF Seal > > Looks like; > > Silicone Baffle Seal > > > here: http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=T01VKIAZ1 > > alan > On 14 May 2015, at 20:37, spcialeffects wrote: > > >> >> Hi all. Could someone please tell me what this sealing material is > called and possibly where i might buy some, Many thanks >> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79612 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442108#442108 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Smell of petrol in the cocpit just after takeoff
The nose up attitude is likely to fill the breather outlet if tank full on T/O although a balanced turn shouldn't fill one side or the other. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-15 21:25, Justin Kennedy wrote: > HI Guys, > > I am a bit reluctant to stick my neck out but I have a possible reason and solution for your smelly climbs. > > When my Europa was about 2 years old, 9 years now, We had the same problem with fuel smell after take-off and came to a conclusion which has not been mentioned in the discussions on this subject. So here goes. > > We think it depends on which side you fuel tank vent is on. In this example the vent is in the usual place on the Starboard side top front corner of the tank. So as you climb out into a right hand circuit the right wing is going to be lower than the left for long periods. The fuel in the tank slurps to the right. The result is a pocket of air trapped on the upper left side of the tank. The size of the pocket of air is dependent on how full the tank is at the time. As the plane climbs the pressure drops and the pocket of air expands. Assuming the fuel is covering the actual fuel vent on the right then there is nowhere for the fuel to go other than up the vent and pour over the back of the fuselage. I think that it is this that creates the smell of fuel that only lasts a short time. We experienced this phenomenon with ours and noticed there was no smell if the tanks were less than about 1/2 full. > > Also trying to reproduce the problem was easy. After take-off with nearly full tanks I flew a long gently curved climb to the right which promptly obliged with a strong fuel smell. As a result we put in an additional vent on the other side of the tank. > > There have been no fuel smells in the climb since. > > Those with this smell could try this and then do it again with 1/2 tanks. > > Also level up in the climb out every now and then to release the air to the vent on the right and see if it stops it. > > Obviously your vents may be different but you can apply the theory. > > There are numerous potential sites for a fuel leak but when it is only in the climb it has got to be climb related. I notice everyone is most specific about it happening in the climb. > > I may be talking bunk but it is surely worth discussion J. > > Fly safe > > Justin Kennedy > > G-ZTED Europa Mono 912S Airmaster Prop > > East of Scotland Strut > Links: ------ [1] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [2] http://forums.matronics.com [3] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: May 18, 2015
Please join us at the West Coast Europa Fly-In, the weekend of June 12 14, in McMinnville, OR (KMMV). Plan to arrive Friday, where well hang out at the FBO (Cirrus Aviation), admire everyones Europa, and have a chance to meet and chat. Weve arranged for discounted tickets to both the Evergreen Museum and the indoor water park http://evergreenmuseum.org/ which features a 747 on the rooftop with waterslides out each of the four exits of the aircraft down to the pool. Supposed to be very cool! It probably makes the most sense to do that Saturday, since they estimate 3 hours for the aviation museum, 2 hours for the space museum & as much water time as you can handle. The water park also has educational exhibits and several pools. Standard fees are $25 for the museums ($24 senior rate) and $32 for the water park, and these are discounted to $18 & $22 ($40 for both) if we have at least 15 people. Well have a catered BBQ dinner Saturday at the airport. Other options for activities in the area include visiting the town of McMinnville, touring Williamette Valley wine country and visiting the Oregon shoreline. The FBO has reserved a block of rooms at the nearby Comfort Inn, at a better rate than we could get individually. We will rent a vehicle so we can shuttle people back and forth, and the Museum also operates a shuttle both to the airport and the hotel. Feel free to pass this on to anyone you know who might be interested. Please contact us at butcher43(at)att.net as soon as possible if you plan (or even just hope) to attend so we have preliminary numbers to share with the FBO, hotel, caterer and museum. We'll flesh out the details, including reservation information, as we have them. Looking forward to seeing you! Jim & Heather Butcher N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442257#442257 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
Date: May 18, 2015
Dang! Sounds like fun! I really need to get going on my Europa to stop missing these :-) Cheers! Pete a239 > On May 18, 2015, at 3:42 PM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > Please join us at the West Coast Europa Fly-In, the weekend of June 12 14, in McMinnville, OR (KMMV). > > Plan to arrive Friday, where well hang out at the FBO (Cirrus Aviation), admire everyones Europa, and have a chance to meet and chat. > > Weve arranged for discounted tickets to both the Evergreen Museum and the indoor water park http://evergreenmuseum.org/ which features a 747 on the rooftop with waterslides out each of the four exits of the aircraft down to the pool. Supposed to be very cool! It probably makes the most sense to do that Saturday, since they estimate 3 hours for the aviation museum, 2 hours for the space museum & as much water time as you can handle. The water park also has educational exhibits and several pools. Standard fees are $25 for the museums ($24 senior rate) and $32 for the water park, and these are discounted to $18 & $22 ($40 for both) if we have at least 15 people. > > Well have a catered BBQ dinner Saturday at the airport. > > Other options for activities in the area include visiting the town of McMinnville, touring Williamette Valley wine country and visiting the Oregon shoreline. > > The FBO has reserved a block of rooms at the nearby Comfort Inn, at a better rate than we could get individually. We will rent a vehicle so we can shuttle people back and forth, and the Museum also operates a shuttle both to the airport and the hotel. > > Feel free to pass this on to anyone you know who might be interested. > > Please contact us at butcher43(at)att.net as soon as possible if you plan (or even just hope) to attend so we have preliminary numbers to share with the FBO, hotel, caterer and museum. > > We'll flesh out the details, including reservation information, as we have them. Looking forward to seeing you! > > Jim & Heather Butcher > N241BW > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442257#442257 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: XS Kit W/Rotax 914 For Sale
From: "danbish99" <bdanbish(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 18, 2015
Hi Everyone, With regret, I'm putting my kit up for sale. Just too little time to devote to it with 2 businesses to run so could be a super-fast build kit since a lot of work is complete. Located in Tucson, AZ, USA. Could still be modified to trigear if preferred. Please contact me directly, off forum, at bdanbish (at) gmail.com, if interested. Here are the basics: In short, it's a mono XS with all four stages and a new 914F (certified version). First 3 stages are pretty much completed with work left to do on engine, panel, upholstery and paint. Cockpit is in, landing gear on, wings and stabs finished, top on, doors and door glass on, engine on, with most mods done and many, many extras including: Singleton/Harrison stabilator torque tube drive clamp mod installed Mod 63 3/8" replacement pins installed Mod 70 Mass balance mod installed Greatly enhanced all-alluminum fuel system installed Dynon Floscan fuel computer Matronix Fuel Chec return flow kit installed Andair fuel selector - installed Andair check valves - installed Lyndhurst fuel indicator - installed Electric flaps mod - installed Custom made 1-man wing rigging dolly Custom made cast iron fuselage caddy on wheels Rotax 914F - new, preserved, mounted Lots of extras Price - US$44k Also for sale: Bell inter-cooler - US$200 Airmaster AP332 prop & AC200 controller, never unboxed. Paid $5700 - US$4900 Very high end CA fire approved faux leather, enough to do entire cockpit, tan with red trim - Paid $900, sell for $600 2 CH joysticks w/3 switches (trim, radio, intercom, etc.) Paid $500 - $350 Custom Lucite wing light enclosures - Paid $300 - $175 Cockpit, wings & stabs completed by AirCrafters. Detailed photos of each building step are viewable here: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=46667 Again, please contact me directly at bdanbish (at) gmail.com. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442276#442276 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: May 21, 2015
Subject: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
Hi all, Wish I could join you all at McMinnville. I will be traveling to Vancouv er, BC that Sunday on business will probably overfly the airport while sitting in coach. Anyway, I fle w to McMinnville a couple of years ago in my Europa with some fellow RV hombuilders. We ha d a great time! The museums are top notch. Spent a full day between the two venues and wished I had more time. Ther e is also an impressive array of static displays outside. I didn't have a chance to try out the water park, although it did look really cool. Our group flew over to Redmond and we dropped in on Lancai r. The gave a great tour, consider most of the staff was at OSH that week. Enjoy, Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Please join us at the West Coast Europa Fly-In, the weekend of June 12 14, inMcMinnville, OR (KMMV). Plan to arrive Friday, where well hang ou t at the FBO (Cirrus Aviation), admireeveryones Europa, and have a chanc e to meet and chat. Weve arranged for discounted tickets to both the Ev ergreen Museum and the indoor water park http://evergreenmuseum.org/ whi ch features a 747 on the rooftop with waterslides out each of the four e xits of the aircraft down to the pool. Supposed to be very cool! It pr obably makes the most sense to do that Saturday, since they estimate 3 h ours for the aviation museum, 2 hours for the space museum & as much wat er time as you can handle. The water park also has educational exhibits and several pools. Standard fees are $25 for the museums ($24 senior r ate) and $32 for the water park, and these are discounted to $18 & $22 ( $40 for both) if we have at least 15 people. Well have a catered BBQ di nner Saturday at the airport.Other options for activities in the area in clude visiting the town of McMinnville,touring Williamette Valley wine c ountry and visiting the Oregon shoreline. The FBO has reserved a block of rooms at the nearby Comfort Inn, at a better ratethan we could get in dividually. We will rent a vehicle so we can shuttle peopleback and for th, and the Museum also operates a shuttle both to the airportand the ho tel.Feel free to pass this on to anyone you know who might be interested .Please contact us at butcher43(at)att.net as soon as possible if you plan (or evenjust hope) to attend so we have preliminary numbers to share wit h the FBO, hotel,caterer and museum. We'll flesh out the details, inclu ding reservation information, as we have them. Looking forward to seeing you! Jim & Heather ButcherN241BW ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/555d499540cb49940cadst03vuc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
Date: May 20, 2015
Hi All, Me too. I have work scheduled for this time. But if if possible I'll change m y schedule and see you there. It was fun to meet up in Florida with some of ya'll. Kevin > On May 20, 2015, at 7:56 PM, Erich Trombley wrot e: > > Hi all, > > Wish I could join you all at McMinnville. I will be traveling to Vancouver , BC that Sunday on business > will probably overfly the airport while sitting in coach. Anyway, I flew t o McMinnville a > couple of years ago in my Europa with some fellow RV hombuilders. We had a great time! The museums are top notch. > Spent a full day between the two venues and wished I had more time. There i s also an impressive array > of static displays outside. I didn't have a chance to try out the water p ark, although it did look > really cool. Our group flew over to Redmond and we dropped in on Lancair. The gave a great tour, consider > most of the staff was at OSH that week. > > Enjoy, > Erich Trombley > N28ET Classic Mono 914 > > > > Please join us at the West Coast Europa Fly-In, the weekend of June 12 14 , in > McMinnville, OR (KMMV). > > Plan to arrive Friday, where well hang out at the FBO (Cirrus Aviation), a dmire > everyones Europa, and have a chance to meet and chat. > > Weve arranged for discounted tickets to both the Evergreen Museum and the i ndoor water > park http://evergreenmuseum.org/ which features a 747 on the rooftop with w aterslides out > each of the four exits of the aircraft down to the pool. Supposed to be v ery cool! It > probably makes the most sense to do that Saturday, since they estimate 3 h ours for the > aviation museum, 2 hours for the space museum & as much water time as you c an handle. > The water park also has educational exhibits and several pools. Standard f ees are $25 > for the museums ($24 senior rate) and $32 for the water park, and these ar e discounted to > $18 & $22 ($40 for both) if we have at least 15 people. > > Well have a catered BBQ dinner Saturday at the airport. > > Other options for activities in the area include visiting the town of McMi nnville, > touring Williamette Valley wine country and visiting the Oregon shoreline. > > > The FBO has reserved a block of rooms at the nearby Comfort Inn, at a bett er rate > than we could get individually. We will rent a vehicle so we can shuttle p eople > back and forth, and the Museum also operates a shuttle both to the airport > and the hotel. > > Feel free to pass this on to anyone you know who might be interested. > > Please contact us at butcher43(at)att.net as soon as possible if you plan (or even > just hope) to attend so we have preliminary numbers to share with the FBO, hotel, > caterer and museum. > > We'll flesh out the details, including reservation information, as we have them. > Looking forward to seeing you! > > Jim & Heather Butcher > N241BW > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Old School Yearbook Pics > View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! > classmates.com > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Painters In Kent
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 2015
Hi all. I am currently filling and sanding my classic flying surfaces, yes wet wings! I am a long way from paint but have come to the conclusion that i want to get my fuselage filled primed and painted and flying surfaces primed and painted by a professional. Im based in kent and just wanted to ask if anyone has used any paint shops preferably aviation ones in the kent area that they can recommend. I am, at this stage, trying to get an idea of cost. Many thanks Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442482#442482 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Balance weights
From: "Phil B" <daveporthcawl(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 2015
About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. Thanks in advance. Phil B Kit no. 032 Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Balance weights
Date: May 24, 2015
Hi Phil, Very few Europas need any ballast weight at all. Do you ask the question for a particular reason? If, and only if, you require ballast it will only be in the order of 1 to 5 lbs. If you need more than that then something is wrong with your build. Once more, if you require weight, it is normally fitted to the bolt that secures your tail wheel extension spring (XTW 06) at the rear of the fuselage. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil B Sent: 24 May 2015 15:23 Subject: Europa-List: Balance weights About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. Thanks in advance. Phil B Kit no. 032 Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2015
From: Steve Hagar <hagargs(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Balance weights
One point you want to think of is that you don't want to be carrying around useless weight. The preferred method is to move things around that you need to carry. The typical method is to move the battery forward or aft. Steve Hagar Mesa, AZ -----Original Message----- >From: Phil B <daveporthcawl(at)aol.com> >Sent: May 24, 2015 7:22 AM >To: europa-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Balance weights > > >About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. >While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. > >Thanks in advance. >Phil B >Kit no. 032 >Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Balance weights
Phil, My inspector and the LAA were entirely happy to have a lead block bolted on to the front of my sternpost - 3 lbs in my instance but they would have accepted more. Have you worked out what the ideal position of your C of G is? - that is one where you can accommodate any sensible combination of crew/fuel/luggage without needing to do calculations? Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-24 15:22, Phil B wrote: > > About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. > While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. > > Thanks in advance. > Phil B > Kit no. 032 > Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balance weights
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: May 24, 2015
Phil, I agree with Peter Jeffers. Really shouldnt require aft ballast unless you have an unusually heavy engine. Try moving the battery first as you dont want to haul around dead weight unless absolutely necessary. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (85 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On May 24, 2015, at 9:22 AM, Phil B wrote: About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. Thanks in advance. Phil B Kit no. 032 Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: May 24, 2015
We mailed about 100 postcards announcing the fly in to owners on the West Coast on Wednesday 5/20, so they should be arriving shortly. At this point, we have 8 people and 5 planes planning to attend. Hopefully more later this week, we'll keep updating this thread as we get more information. Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442539#442539 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: May 24, 2015
nice work Jim & Heatherthanks for taking this initiativeF. > On May 24, 2015, at 1:09 PM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > We mailed about 100 postcards announcing the fly in to owners on the West Coast on Wednesday 5/20, so they should be arriving shortly. At this point, we have 8 people and 5 planes planning to attend. Hopefully more later this week, we'll keep updating this thread as we get more information. > > Jim & Heather > N241BW > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442539#442539 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Balance weights
Steve, There is the point that a forward battery saves a fair bit of weight and gives limited resistance = better starting, very easy fixing & easier access. I suspect that I saved the 3 lbs that I attached to my stern post, in shorter heavy duty cable length and not having to construct a rear battery box, so I may well have broken even on the weight calculation. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-24 16:16, Steve Hagar wrote: > > One point you want to think of is that you don't want to be carrying around useless weight. The preferred method is to move things around that you need to carry. The typical method is to move the battery forward or aft. > > Steve Hagar > Mesa, AZ > > -----Original Message----- > > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balance weights
Date: May 25, 2015
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
=0AI had 14 lbs of lead bolted to the old tailwheel mount at one point; the 1" 'railway' bolt that held it weighed > 1lb alone.=0AThe LAA didn't blink.=0A=0ADuncan McF.=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Or iginal Message-----=0AFrom: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk=0ATo: europa-list@ma tronics.com=0ASent: Sun, 24 May 2015 19:28=0ASubject: Re: Europa-L ist: Balance weights=0A=0A=0APhil, My inspector and the LAA were entirely happy to have a lead block bolted on to the fr ont of my sternpost - 3 lbs in my instance but they woul d have accepted more. Have you worked out what the ideal p osition of your C of G is? - that is one where you can accommodate any sensible combination of crew/fuel/luggage without needing to do calculations?=0ARegards, David Joyce, GXSDJ=0A =0A =0AOn 2015-05-24 15:22, Phil B wrote:=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess age posted by: "Phil B" About to get m y mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing som e flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring.hile I appreciate that each build is different can a nyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast.Thanks in advance.hil Bit no. 03 2ono wheel Classic with XS fwf.ead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listcs.commatronics.com/contribut =========================== =============-= - The Europa-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Fe atures Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:-= -= -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List-=-== =========================== =========================== ====-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!-=-= -- http://forums.matronics.com-=-= =========================== =========================== =====-= - List Contribu tion Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= -- http://www.ma tronics.com/contribution-================== =========================== ================0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Balance weights
Date: May 25, 2015
Hi Duncan, I find it hard to imagine what on earth you had fitted up front to justify 14 lbs at the tail.? Pete From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net Sent: 25 May 2015 08:26 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balance weights I had 14 lbs of lead bolted to the old tailwheel mount at one point; the 1" 'railway' bolt that held it weighed >1lb alone. The LAA didn't blink. Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk Sent: Sun, 24 May 2015 19:28 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balance weights Phil, My inspector and the LAA were entirely happy to have a lead block bolted on to the front of my sternpost - 3 lbs in my instance but they would have accepted more. Have you worked out what the ideal position of your C of G is? - that is one where you can accommodate any sensible combination of crew/fuel/luggage without needing to do calculations? Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-05-24 15:22, Phil B wrote: About to get my mono wheel weighed and balanced. 2 questions - where is the best place to fix the weights. I thought of fixing some flat sheets of lead to the stern post but wondered if it's strong enough or may be each side of the tail wheel spring. While I appreciate that each build is different can anyone give me a range of ballast weights I will expect to need. At this stage I don't know whether to cater for 3lbs or 30lbs of ballast. Thanks in advance. Phil B Kit no. 032 Mono wheel Classic with XS fwf. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442528#442528 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution htt======================================================================== ===================================-- http:=============================================== <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> Email Forum - Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Balance weights
Date: May 25, 2015
My 914 needed 4 lbs in the tail but I never did put it in. Over the years I slowly moved the C of G by moving the battery back, taking weight out of the tail and generally putting the airplane on a diet. What I did find though as the more I moved the C of G back the more difficult the airplane was to handing in the landing/ground roll .... This makes sense of course, but it was noticeable. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balance weights
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: May 26, 2015
Paulwould you be willing to lay some numbers on your thoughts expressed below?Fred > On May 25, 2015, at 8:15 PM, Paul McAllister wrote: > > > My 914 needed 4 lbs in the tail but I never did put it in. Over the years I > slowly moved the C of G by moving the battery back, taking weight out of the > tail and generally putting the airplane on a diet. What I did find though > as the more I moved the C of G back the more difficult the airplane was to > handing in the landing/ground roll .... This makes sense of course, but it > was noticeable. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2015
Subject: Europa FlyIn Wyk is round the corner.
From: stephan cassel <stephan.cassel(at)gmail.com>
Hi all, Europa FlyIn Wyk is round the corner. The preliminary program and some useful information can be found under the link section. http://europa-nordic.scassel.se/FlyIn2015 We have also found out that this is the 10th anniversary of the Europa Nordic FlyIn. Most welcome all of you Best regards Claus and Stephan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balance weights
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 27, 2015
When my Classic beauty was still a mono/tail/wheel, I did move the battery from engine bay to rear fuselage immediately behind the flap cross-tube. This was due to a misunderstanding about the datum point and a year or so later I moved the battery forward again. As has already been stated, moving the C of G aft makes a very noticeable difference to ground handling in a mono-wheel especially during the landing roll-out. It felt decidedly more inclined to ground-loop and I was relieved to discover my fundamental blunder in calculations, which allowed me to move the battery forward again, a year later. I believe that you should arrange things to have the C of G at the forward limit with two heavies in the seats, nothing in the baggage bay and almost no fuel. It really does improve the feeling of security, based on about 800 hours as a mono with battery forward and about 50 hours with battery aft. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442632#442632 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: May 28, 2015
Hotel information for McMinnville - Dora at Cirrus Aviation has a block of 8 rooms reserved for us. Call the Comfort Inn at 503-472-1700 and mention Cirrus Aviation for the special rate of $101.15 plus tax. We will have an SUV for extra transportation (the hotel is less than 2 miles away & the museum has a shuttle). Dora said that if anyone else would like a car, call her at Cirrus at 503-472-0558 and she will take care of it for you. The museum has great group rates, but we need to purchase tickets in advance, so please let us know by Wednesday, June 3rd if you want museum / water park or both. Looking forward to seeing everyone! Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442653#442653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2015
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?FlyIn_Wyk_auf_F=C3=B6r_is_postponed=2E_New_date_31=2F7_=2D2=2F8_?=
=?UTF-8?Q?2015?
From: stephan cassel <stephan.cassel(at)gmail.com>
Hi FlyIn Wyk auf F=C3=B6r is postponed. New date 31/7 -2/8 2015 http://europa-nordic.scassel.se/ We have received many cancelations due the bad weather forecast. Several fronts are passing the Wyk area during the weekend. Same program and same Scandinavian cuisine will be offered 31/7 -2/8 2015 And if that is not enough, Wyk also have it=C2=B4s annual FlyIn the very sa me weekend. In other words: lots of pilots and aircrafts. Most welcome !!! Best regards Claus and Stephan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
Date: May 28, 2015
Jim, Heather and all going to McMinnville. Have a great time and lets hope the weather for you is better than for our airshow this weekend. Steve and all the UK members of the Europa Club PS Jim - thanks for the photos and articles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:03 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14 > > Hotel information for McMinnville - Dora at Cirrus Aviation has a block of > 8 rooms reserved for us. Call the Comfort Inn at 503-472-1700 and mention > Cirrus Aviation for the special rate of $101.15 plus tax. > > We will have an SUV for extra transportation (the hotel is less than 2 > miles away & the museum has a shuttle). Dora said that if anyone else > would like a car, call her at Cirrus at 503-472-0558 and she will take > care of it for you. > > The museum has great group rates, but we need to purchase tickets in > advance, so please let us know by Wednesday, June 3rd if you want museum / > water park or both. > > Looking forward to seeing everyone! > > Jim & Heather > N241BW > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442653#442653 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2015
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: MAUW Increase
Steve, FYI I have just received a reply from John Tempest at the LAA regarding my Callisto mod submission. Reproduced below is his (predictably conservative) response to the MAUW increase proposal. I await with eager anticipation, his response to your mod! Nigel /Initial comments are (for discussion):/// /1.//The MTOW of 1370 lb for the Europa was based on a number of analysis reports and load tests and was limited by a number of issues, for example, required composite special factors, stresses on the wing root pins, and no doubt other issues, and it is therefore going to require a considerable amount of thought to give any additional weight increase over this figure, if indeed it is possible at all. The use of in-service experience to justify operating at weights higher that the designers intentions is fraught with problems and at the moment this is a major hurdle. I am not sure how remaining at 1370 lb will affect the practicality of your aircraft./ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 2015
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
Sorry chaps, Finger trouble! This was supposed to go to Steve Pitt . But at least you UK flyers now know that we are working on a MTOW upgrade proposal for the Europa. Nigel On 30/05/2015 09:56, Nigel Graham wrote: > Steve, > > FYI > > I have just received a reply from John Tempest at the LAA regarding my > Callisto mod submission. > Reproduced below is his (predictably conservative) response to the > MAUW increase proposal. > I await with eager anticipation, his response to your mod! > > Nigel > > /Initial comments are (for discussion):/// > > /1.//The MTOW of 1370 lb for the Europa was based on a number of > analysis reports and load tests and was limited by a number of issues, > for example, required composite special factors, stresses on the wing > root pins, and no doubt other issues, and it is therefore going to > require a considerable amount of thought to give any additional weight > increase over this figure, if indeed it is possible at all. The use of > in-service experience to justify operating at weights higher that the > designers intentions is fraught with problems and at the moment this > is a major hurdle. I am not sure how remaining at 1370 lb will affect > the practicality of your aircraft./ > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 30, 2015
Well my knee-jerk response is that whatever our American cousins are using for the max.mass of their Europa fleet is what we should be allowed, assuming that they haven't suffered mishaps due to overloading and aren't seeing evidence of structural failures developing. An increase to 1420 lbs (645 kg) seems reasonable to me, for Europas with 100hp or more powerful engines and/or VP propellers. In my former commercial career I saw one 19 pax seat aircraft given a 7.8% increase of max.mass, without any structural strengthening. Just the performance graphs were altered to show things like increased take-off distance and reject area requirements and of course reduced single engine climb rates. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442800#442800 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: May 30, 2015
>From what Iv read and seen on the Internet the Americans operate their europa's at 1450lbs which in Church of England is another 5 and a half stone! A light passenger! However in order to fly at thet weight they have to pre load their planes (wings) with weight Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442806#442806 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 30, 2015
Well, here's a bit more subjective waffling from me then! I don't think that most Europae would need that much of an increase. How about this? Most of us would like the capability to take off with two 15 stone (210 lbs to our USA cousins, 95,25 kg to our EU neighbours) blokes and a full tank 110 lbs, plus a bit of baggage e.g. 10 lbs. That leaves 880 lbs which might be a fairly representative average empty weight (mass for EU neighbours) across the fleet. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442810#442810 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: May 30, 2015
Here in the USA, because we are the manufacturer of the aircraft, we may set some of the specs of our aircraft. I set my max gross weight to be 1450 lbs as suggested. I also have restricted the CG range to 59-61.5 for weight over 1370 lbs. as suggested. There was no need to do any further testing or weighting of the wings. I find that, at max gross weight, the aircraft still climbs at almost 1000 fpm to pattern altitude of 1500 ft. Cruise climb at 100 kts is over 500 fpm. If stall speed was increased, it isnt enough to see in the ASI at those low speeds. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On May 30, 2015, at 9:55 AM, spcialeffects wrote: > From what Iv read and seen on the Internet the Americans operate their europa's at 1450lbs which in Church of England is another 5 and a half stone! A light passenger! However in order to fly at thet weight they have to pre load their planes (wings) with weight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
Date: May 31, 2015
While flying the 747-400 our MAUW was changed from 398 tones to 405 tones. I asked the Technical skipper what we had to do to qualify for that increase, difference tyres, undercarriage oleos, tweak up the engine power etc. Answer: NOTHING, except pay Boeing $1,000,000 per aircraft to be certified! So be it. Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 > On 31/05/2015, at 12:31 am, jonathanmilbank wrote: > > > Well my knee-jerk response is that whatever our American cousins are using for the max.mass of their Europa fleet is what we should be allowed, assuming that they haven't suffered mishaps due to overloading and aren't seeing evidence of structural failures developing. > An increase to 1420 lbs (645 kg) seems reasonable to me, for Europas with 100hp or more powerful engines and/or VP propellers. > In my former commercial career I saw one 19 pax seat aircraft given a 7.8% increase of max.mass, without any structural strengthening. Just the performance graphs were altered to show things like increased take-off distance and reject area requirements and of course reduced single engine climb rates. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442800#442800 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com>
Date: May 30, 2015
Tim I did not know that you were that heavy that Air New Zealand had to increase the 747-400 MAUW when you had to fly it. Cheers Peter [Laughing] -------- Peter Armstrong Auckland, New Zealand DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442825#442825 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: May 31, 2015
An increase in MAUW for the Europa (or any other LAA Permit aircraft) nowadays requires a significant amount of engineering work culminating in a rational and fully detailed submission to the Engineering office at the LAA. Long gone are the days when partial submissions and/or data based on predominantly observation based in-service history are sufficient to achieve the desired result. For the Europa there was never (to my knowledge) a full submission made, it's approval being in the days when the system was less obstructive. If there was a fully detailed submission it could be used as a baseline for a MAUW increase, probably based solely on an extrapolation of the existing stress work and/or a new interpretation of the factors used in the original. There seems to be a misunderstanding that an increase in MAUW only affects the wing, the reality is the entire airframe structurally (and it's aeroelastic responses) are influenced by the additional mass. I started to look at the Europa structure many years ago whilst conducting stress analysis on the FLYER magazine aircraft. At that time they not only wanted to go through the process of building a Permit aircraft but (somewhat ambitiously) decided to implement some major modifications. The final result is, thankfully, flying successfully today (G-MLXP by Mike Davies) albeit without the BRS mods. The justification reports for that Mod required a simulation (FEA) of the entire front end of the Europa, which l made on a ply by ply basis 'laying' up the FE model in the same way that kit is built. The finished model was stressed using JAR-VLA derived loads (pre CS-VLA) and then the Mods were applied thereby showing the differences in loads. To cut a very long story short the LAA finally accepted the Mod after Mike (who purchased the project from FLYER) agreed to increase the level of reinforcement around the MLG. The context of this tale is that my business, as a CAA approved E1/E2 DOA (with the scope to design and submit type certification for complete JAR-VLA aircraft) was unable to persuade (then PFA) LAA Engineering that we had a good solution. The end result is (most probably) heavier than it needs to be. The above is an illustration indicating the amount of justification required to achieve a successful Mod application. I could add further tales of woe to illustrate just how difficult these applications are when made via the LAA. So, cutting to the chase, to achieve a MAUW increase >1370lbs will require probably a complete loads and stress analysis of the aircraft as if it were a new design. It would also most likely require us to conduct material qualification/characterisation tests in order to alleviate the composite special factor (1.5) used. Any data relating to the foreign fleet would be of interest but is unlikely to be of any real value. Had one of our enterprising US cousins strain gauged their aircraft and conducted flight tests under strict (CAFE type) conditions (see http://209.83.103.25/home/flight_reports/europa_classic. (h t m l ) we may have some useful data to correlate the stress analysis with. My own view (having inadvertently flown my own Europa at >MAUW with a marginally aft CG whilst in CH) is that it is probably OK structurally and from a stability and control point of view. Landing at such high weights (admittedly unlikely) may not work out so well (tri-gear and/or mono). With swift concentrating on their new aircraft program, which l learned yesterday will also be a kit (and then a TC) aircraft, they will unlikely be willing to devote their own engineering resources to a Heavy Europa Mod (HEM). Input/opinion from Europa Club members and non-member owners (shame on you, wherever you are) on this matter is welcome. If enough people want a Mod (with/without structural changes) then we can perhaps take it further. Regards JW -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442833#442833 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAUW Increase
From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>
Date: May 31, 2015
John, Thanks very much for your detailed description of what is needed for an LAA MAUW increase. The LAA not only make it onerous but also expensive to complete. Ive not tested my aircraft with a fully aft CG at any weight so I cant speak to that. But, N914XL has been tested in general flight conditions at 1449 lbs with CG at 61.267 (185 lb pilot, 135 lbs in the passenger seat, 80 lbs in the baggage bay & 17 gal of fuel with the results stated in my last e-mail. I wish you folks the best of luck in obtaining you MAUW increase approval. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com On May 31, 2015, at 8:07 AM, John Wighton wrote: An increase in MAUW for the Europa (or any other LAA Permit aircraft) nowadays requires a significant amount of engineering work culminating in a rational and fully detailed submission to the Engineering office at the LAA. Long gone are the days when partial submissions and/or data based on predominantly observation based in-service history are sufficient to achieve the desired result. For the Europa there was never (to my knowledge) a full submission made, it's approval being in the days when the system was less obstructive. If there was a fully detailed submission it could be used as a baseline for a MAUW increase, probably based solely on an extrapolation of the existing stress work and/or a new interpretation of the factors used in the original. There seems to be a misunderstanding that an increase in MAUW only affects the wing, the reality is the entire airframe structurally (and it's aeroelastic responses) are influenced by the additional mass. I started to look at the Europa structure many years ago whilst conducting stress analysis on the FLYER magazine aircraft. At that time they not only wanted to go through the process of building a Permit aircraft but (somewhat ambitiously) decided to implement some major modifications. The final result is, thankfully, flying successfully today (G-MLXP by Mike Davies) albeit without the BRS mods. The justification reports for that Mod required a simulation (FEA) of the entire front end of the Europa, which l made on a ply by ply basis 'laying' up the FE model in the same way that kit is built. The finished model was stressed using JAR-VLA derived loads (pre CS-VLA) and then the Mods were applied thereby showing the differences in loads. To cut a very long story short the LAA finally accepted the Mod after Mike (who purchased the project from FLYER) agreed to increase the level of reinforcement around the MLG. The context of this tale is that my business, as a CAA approv! ed E1/E2 DOA (with the scope to design and submit type certification for complete JAR-VLA aircraft) was unable to persuade (then PFA) LAA Engineering that we had a good solution. The end result is (most probably) heavier than it needs to be. The above is an illustration indicating the amount of justification required to achieve a successful Mod application. I could add further tales of woe to illustrate just how difficult these applications are when made via the LAA. So, cutting to the chase, to achieve a MAUW increase >1370lbs will require probably a complete loads and stress analysis of the aircraft as if it were a new design. It would also most likely require us to conduct material qualification/characterisation tests in order to alleviate the composite special factor (1.5) used. Any data relating to the foreign fleet would be of interest but is unlikely to be of any real value. Had one of our enterprising US cousins strain gauged their aircraft and conducted flight tests under strict (CAFE type) conditions (see http://209.83.103.25/home/flight_reports/europa_classic. (h t m l ) we may have some useful data to correlate the stress analysis with. My own view (having inadvertently flown my own Europa at >MAUW with a marginally aft CG whilst in CH) is that it is probably OK structurally and from a stability and control point of view. Landing at such high weights (admittedly unlikely) may not work out so well (tri-gear and/or mono). With swift concentrating on their new aircraft program, which l learned yesterday will also be a kit (and then a TC) aircraft, they will unlikely be willing to devote their own engineering resources to a Heavy Europa Mod (HEM). Input/opinion from Europa Club members and non-member owners (shame on you, wherever you are) on this matter is welcome. If enough people want a Mod (with/without structural changes) then we can perhaps take it further. Regards JW -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Europa aileron hinge replacement
Date: May 31, 2015
Willie, Aileron hinge wear in 10 year old aircraft never lubed is common. Most civil aircraft pilots never look at the hinges, as a mechanic or A&P, over here in the US, are supposed to know the wear limits, and trust that the civil authorities will keep their aircraft safe, however to be frank, there are no limits published. If the hinge pin is worn, a good mechanic will look at a new hinge gap movement, then note the limit they feel is safe. However, in experimental aircraft, most guys don't trust the aircraft and are really concerned as it was built by an amateur. That said, normally a 10 year old 1000 hour aircraft which has been hangared has hinge pin wear of about .015 more than new which is about .013 inches so a total slop of nearly .03 inches. Wear of the aileron hinges above is rare in my experience. However, I have seen a number of aircraft that have been built with misaligned hinges or have an aileron and wing misfit. By misfit I mean that the wing tip curves up but the aileron is straight. The builder builds his hinges flat on the aileron and then the bow of the wing to aileron causes the hinges to be under a slight bending load. This is evident prior to finishing when the aileron has what feels like a spring in it as the fiberglass is the spring. This causes the hinge to wear quickly. In this case, the hinges must be removed and the aileron and hinge properly aligned. Removing a hinge is a fairly short job: 1. Remove the aileron. 2. Check hinge alignment with an angle stock sufficiently long enough and check the the hinge alignment on the aileron and on the wing. Shimming the wing hinge bed may be necessary to assure hinge alignment. Shimming must be done to keep the hinge pins straight regardless of the bow of the wing. Normally, we tape up the hinges with release tape then make a bed of Redux to make a bed and assure a straight hinge line. If the tip of the aileron bows away from the wing, we fill the wing. 3. Prepare to remove the hinges by removing the paint from the inside of the aileron hinge top and surrounding reinforcing layups. Note the rivets position in relation to the aileron foam and glass so you don't damage the aileron structure. 4. Using a 4 inch thin cutting disk on an air grinder I lay the grinder on the hinge being careful to only cut off the rivets and impact the hinge, not the glass or foam. Note: The grinding action heats the rivets and loosens the epoxy while also cutting the rivet tail off. This also cuts the hard metal rivet stem off making the rivet easy to drill. This heating will generally expose the rivet heads which are countersunk, and filled with filler making them easy to see. 5. Using a countersink (119 degree non post type) in a slow drill, cut the rivet head off, or just drill out the rivet with an 1/8 inch bit. The drilling and grinding will loosen the rivet head for you. 6. Gently pry the hinge to see if the heating has loosened the hinge from the aileron inner skin. If it hasn't loosened the hinge, either use the grinder on the hinge to heat it or a 40 watt soldering gun to heat the aileron hinge only until just too hot to touch. DO NOT USE A HEAT GUN! Then pry the hinge free of the flox bed it was mounted in. 7. Clean up the glass/flox bed with sanding action by hand or if quite proficient with power tools, a carbide cutter and an air or electric hand tool to prep the aileron inner skin. Don't screw up the aileron skin. 8. With the hinge free at last, make a new hinge as close to the original as possible (providing they are OK). Don't copy the holes just yet. 9. Follow the aileron hinging instructions in the build manual to align and set the aileron hinge to the aileron. Note: Pay attention to the hinge alignment. You must also be careful in your hinge alignment to allow you to use the previous rivet holes in the wings in new aileron hinge and still maintain hinge edge distance. If in doubt make the hinge longer. When all is well, rivet it home. 10. Once the hinges are on the aileron, set the aileron into the rebate and check it is in the same position. If all looks well on the position, gap and rebate, then mark it. The wing hinge side is flopping around, so prep your hinge with a lump of clay to hold the hinge out in position. Next, "offer" the aileron up to the wing again, and carefully mark one of the screw holes for drilling on each hinge. Once the one hole is marked, remove the aileron and drill the one hole in each hinge to 3/16 inch. Offer the aileron up again and fit with a 3/16 inch cleco to hold. Try the aileron in place and check alignment. If all is well, remove the aileron again (yes, if you haven't put it together and taken it apart at least 5 times, your screwing up), then apply a dab of 5 minute glue, contact cement, or super glue to the wing side hinge, and cleco it up again. Allow to cure. Check the movement, and if all is well, drill and cleco the remaining holes. When all the holes are drilled, crack the aileron hinge loose. 11. Nut plate the screw holes in the hinge (making sure to countersink the PROPER SIDE), then install. 12. Only a small amount of paint and filler is necessary over the countersunk rivets... Typically it takes a day or two to finish the task. Best Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: William John Harrison Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 3:32 AM Subject: Europa aileron hinge replacement Dear Bud Steve Pitt suggested I email you. I am a Europa owner in the UK. My aircraft, which has approx 500 hours (and 12 years) since new, has developed severe wear on both outboard aileron hinges. They need to be replaced. The inboard hinges are fine and this problem has developed progressively over the past two years. I wondered if you could help with two questions: 1. How common is this problem? If it isnt common, then something must have been wrong with the hinges, or the way they have been lubricated over the years (lithium aerosol spray every 25 hours). 2. Do you have any experience of changing aileron hinges? Are you able to offer any advice and guidance about how to do this? I didnt build the aircraft myself and I have no real skills in composite layup. However, my inspector (Tony Kay) has said he can help me with this and he certainly is an expert with composites. Withe best wishes Willie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Cointe (Free)" <mcointe(at)free.fr>
Subject: F-PMLH for sale
Date: Jun 01, 2015
Unfortunately I can't keep on flying and maintaining two ships at the same time, so I have to sale my Europa: Based in France @ LFLA (Auxerre). Price 30k=82=AC. Feel free to contact me via my personal email (see above). Max Cointe mcointe(at)free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 547 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1660 heures ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Don Dykins - Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2015
Has anyone got a copy of this book that l could buy or borrow please? Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa Aircraft, 1995, Don Dykins, 0952694808, 9780952694809, 1995. 8) -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442883#442883 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2015
From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Don Dykins - Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your
Europa Hi John, I have a copy somewhere. Let me know if you find one closer to home - otherwise I'll dig it out and you can borrow it. I probably can't scan it as it is likely still copyrighted. All the best, Martin On 6/1/2015 1:10 PM, John Wighton wrote: > > Has anyone got a copy of this book that l could buy or borrow please? > > Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa Aircraft, 1995, Don Dykins, > 0952694808, 9780952694809, 1995. > > 8) > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442883#442883 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don Dykins - Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your
Europa
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2015
I believe the Club has some in stock for sale over in UKF> > On Jun 1, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Martin Tuck wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I have a copy somewhere. Let me know if you find one closer to home - otherwise I'll dig it out and you can borrow it. > > I probably can't scan it as it is likely still copyrighted. > > All the best, > Martin > > On 6/1/2015 1:10 PM, John Wighton wrote: >> >> Has anyone got a copy of this book that l could buy or borrow please? >> >> Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa Aircraft, 1995, Don Dykins, >> 0952694808, 9780952694809, 1995. >> >> 8) >> >> -------- >> John Wighton >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442883#442883 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2015
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Don Dykins - Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your
Europa JohnI've got a copy at home in Derbyshire. Email me next week when I am bac k homeGraham On Tuesday, 2 June 2015, 4:24, Fred Klein wro te: I believe the Club has some in stock for sale over in UKF> > On Jun 1, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Martin Tuck wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I have a copy somewhere. Let me know if you find one closer to home - oth erwise I'll dig it out and you can borrow it. > > I probably can't scan it as it is likely still copyrighted. > > All the best, > Martin > > On 6/1/2015 1:10 PM, John Wighton wrote: >> >> Has anyone got a copy of this book that l could buy or borrow please? >> >> Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa Aircraft, 1995, Don Dykins , >> 0952694808, 9780952694809, 1995. >> >>=C2- 8) >> >> -------- >> John Wighton >> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442883#442883 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: McMinnville, OR, USA Europa Fly In June 12-14
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Jun 02, 2015
Getting more responses, looks like we may have 15 people and 8 Europas attending at least some portion of the weekend! Jerry Rehn let us know that the museum is free to EAA members (1 member & 1 guest) who live at least 90 miles away, so we won't need to do a group admission. The BBQ will be in the hangar at Cirrus Aviation Saturday and is only $10 + 15% tip + tax. They don't need a firm number until the day before. Discounted rooms are still available at Comfort Inn. The block expires June 10th. Looking forward to seeing everyone. Jethro has never been to Oregon before :-) Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442899#442899 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don Dykins - Understanding the Aerodynamics of Your Europa
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2015
Now sorted, thank to all who responded. The Europa Club has a small stock of both books by Don. -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442929#442929 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2015
From: Rick Stockton <aireupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/02/15
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/02/15
From: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 04, 2015
on June 12th from southern or northern California? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442992#442992 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Has anyone in this group installed an MGL EFIS using
From: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 04, 2015
Trio Servos. I have finally got mine to almost work and was looking for somebody that had worked out the setting for the EFIS. Rick Stockton Europa XS N120EJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442993#442993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Has anyone in this group installed an MGL EFIS using
From: "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com>
Date: Jun 04, 2015
What sort of MGL EFIS are you using. I had MGL Voyagers G2 with Trio servos which worked brilliantly, have recently upgraded to MGL servos as I wanted auto-trim. Do not forget http://www.mglavionicsusers.org/forum for the usergroup for anything MGL. Cheers Peter -------- Peter Armstrong Auckland, New Zealand DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443052#443052 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Subject: undercarriage retraction problem
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Ive finally managed to satisfy myself that the flaps are operating over the correct range, and moved on to installing the undercarriage. After fitting the LG02 swinging arm to the LG01 mounting frame, I was still (just) able to operate the retract lever without any bungee assistance. Then I fitted the wheel and brake to LG02 and of course that made it too heavy to retract without the bungee. Yesterday I fitted the bungee and was pleased to find a number of loops and tension that nicely balanced the weight of the undercarriage and allowed the lever to operate quite easily. However, I couldnt quite get the lever into the up gate. Examination of everything showed that (1) the tyre was hitting the brake master cylinder and its elbow connexion and (2) the brake slave cylinder was catching the rudder cable. Initially it looked as if LG02 might be too far to starboard, but I had taken care when fixing LG01 into the fuselage to have LG02 temporarily fitted, and inserted packing to keep LG02 equidistant from the tunnel at each side. The other possibility that occurred to me was that (despite careful measurements against the manual callout) Id pre-compressed the LG06 suspension block at bit too much, causing the distance between the LG08 pivots and the LG02 pivots to be too small, thus making the LG02 swinging arm retract too far. I tried backing off the M8 stiffnuts a little (which involved removing and re-installing the bungee again - nobody mentioned how hard it is to thread the bungee around LG02B anchor tube) and that did seem to allow a little but more movement in the up direction but nowhere near enough to get the lever into the up gate. While looking at everything after that adjustment, it seems that the linkage is not quite going over-centre in the down position - it appears the 3 pivots are just about in line with each other. I wonder if lengthening the suspension assembly has caused that. Can anyone suggest what I might be doing wrong, please, or any way to solve the problem? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Hi Rowland. First let me state that I did all this construction stuff 20 years ago and that my aircraft was converted to tri-gear in November 2012, so it was operated as a mono for over 850 hours. Anyway, if memory serves me correctly the LG06 suspension block was hardly compressed at all before installation and only when the full weight of the aircraft was resting on the wheel, did the block become compressed. Thus if you were to reach up into the wheel bay while lying under your aircraft, you would find that the two bolts passing vertically through the block would be loose i.e. have a few millimetres sliding end play. Obviously this would suggest that the suspension block was not in compression while the wheel was retracted. It worked happily like this for about 17 years. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443126#443126 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
On 6 Jun 2015, at 12:01, jonathanmilbank wrote: > if memory serves me correctly the LG06 suspension block was hardly compressed at all before installation and only when the full weight of the aircraft was resting on the wheel, did the block become compressed. Thus if you were to reach up into the wheel bay while lying under your aircraft, you would find that the two bolts passing vertically through the block would be loose i.e. have a few millimetres sliding end play. Jonathan - thanks for your message. Id be happy to try the effect of further loosening the M8 bolts that hold the suspension assembly together, but after my first loosening there is now is barely enough thread protruding beyond the nuts to keep them in safety, so theres not much room for further experiment. I can believe that the weight of the aircraft will compress LG06 quite a bit and thus leave the bolts loose, but on initial assembly I found I had to use G-clamps to compress the thing enough to even get the nuts started on the threads. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Your suspension block is probably different from mine, which was one of the earliest and came needing work done by the builder. It was red in colour, solid and thus needed holes bored through with a hole saw in a drill press. A band saw was needed to cut out 'V' wedges top and bottom and finally the factory decided that the block wasn't thick enough, so we had to add in a shim made from a piece of 1/4" ply board. Therefore I guess that it's unsurprising that your problems are different. Still, you might have been in possession of one of the early blocks if you had bought an old kit from someone. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443129#443129 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
On 6 Jun 2015, at 13:29, jonathanmilbank wrote: > Your suspension block is probably different from mine, which was one of the earliest and came needing work done by the builder. It was red in colour, solid and thus needed holes bored through with a hole saw in a drill press. A band saw was needed to cut out 'V' wedges top and bottom and finally the factory decided that the block wasn't thick enough, so we had to add in a shim made from a piece of 1/4" ply board. > Therefore I guess that it's unsurprising that your problems are different. Still, you might have been in possession of one of the early blocks if you had bought an old kit from someone. Jonathan - no, my block is of the newer sort, black with the hole and the notches already cut out. Anyway, I suspect that the solution to my problem may lie elsewhere so I dont want to focus on one thing to the detriment of the big picture! in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Hi Rowland, I remember that the rubber block should be (pre) compressed such that the distance between the inside faces of the upper and lower reaction plates is 79mm. I believe that this measurement is critically important and that it would be a big mistake to differ from that. (Older manuals referred to different points to measure from, bolt centres etc giving different distances but the end result was the same). I also remember reading that the most important part of the correct geometry regarding the over centre locking is the length of the retraction stops. They should have been manufactured in the factory such that they were correct but I've heard they were not always so, so perhaps they are worth checking? When it's all set up correctly both retraction arms should touch their respective stops simultaneously and the retraction arms should be parallel with each other. The geometry of the three bolt centres should also be correcting as per the manual, ie the centre of the middle pivot (top bolt of the rubber block assembly) should be 1/16 to 1/8" forward of the line between the other two centres. This can all be checked and confirmed to be correct with the plane hoisted up and is easier with the wheel removed. If the above is all correct then I guess you will have to look elsewhere for your problem and I don't really know what the answer might be? Can the rudder cables/ fairleads be raised slightly? Can the brake master cylinder be repositioned slightly? Good luck! Below is a link to the FSB which gives details of the mandatory undercarriage checks just in case you haven't seen it - it is on the Europa Club site. http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/FSB004.pdf -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443133#443133 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Rowland, you are welcome to pop over to Bicester, my undercarriage works well and the aircraft is up on a trestle. Alan Twigg Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Jun 2015, at 13:38, Rowland Carson wrote: > > >> On 6 Jun 2015, at 13:29, jonathanmilbank wrote: >> >> Your suspension block is probably different from mine, which was one of the earliest and came needing work done by the builder. It was red in colour, solid and thus needed holes bored through with a hole saw in a drill press. A band saw was needed to cut out 'V' wedges top and bottom and finally the factory decided that the block wasn't thick enough, so we had to add in a shim made from a piece of 1/4" ply board. >> Therefore I guess that it's unsurprising that your problems are different. Still, you might have been in possession of one of the early blocks if you had bought an old kit from someone. > > Jonathan - no, my block is of the newer sort, black with the hole and the notches already cut out. Anyway, I suspect that the solution to my problem may lie elsewhere so I dont want to focus on one thing to the detriment of the big picture! > > in friendship > > Rowland > > | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... > | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk > | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson > | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Rowland, just a further thought, you haven't set it up so that it's trying to retract the wheel too far/ too high? Whereas the undercarriage downlock gate and set up IS critical I don't think the exact position of the undercarriage lever UP lock gate is quite so important. Obviously you want it up as much as possible and not too low but it can't of course go up too far. Adjusting the rear latching face of the upgate rearwards slightly would mean the wheel wouldn't lock up quite as far but it might then not foul the items you mentioned. You would then have to completely re-set up the flap retraction adjustment again with probably a new flap retraction horn etc....! Maybe looking at Ian's plane as he mentioned above would give you a very good comparison. Cheers, -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443140#443140 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2015
From: Keith Hickling <keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
Rowland, 1) I can't remember why, but I also ended up with the wheel contacting the brake master cylinder and a rudder cable. I had to move one of the rudder cable guides slightly, and as jon suggested I had to file back the up gate slightly so the swing arm did not retract quite so far. As jon said, that meant having to readjust the flap mechanism. 2) The geometry is complex, but as jon said I think the amount of precompression of the rubber block is critical to getting the correct amount of overcentre with the gear down, so the measurement specified in the manual is important. Ron Parigoris has written a couple of nice emails on the list concerning the geometry and the fact that on some u/c frames one or both of the stops were not the correct length and needed filing back a little to achieve the overcentre position. I seem to recall that there have been a couple of expensive u/c collapses associated with inadequate overcentre or slight undercentre positioning. The down gate is not strong enough to hold the gear down if it is not overcentred against the stops. Good luck ! Regards, Keith. -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 9:47 PM Subject: Europa-List: undercarriage retraction problem Ive finally managed to satisfy myself that the flaps are operating over the correct range, and moved on to installing the undercarriage. After fitting the LG02 swinging arm to the LG01 mounting frame, I was still (just) able to operate the retract lever without any bungee assistance. Then I fitted the wheel and brake to LG02 and of course that made it too heavy to retract without the bungee. Yesterday I fitted the bungee and was pleased to find a number of loops and tension that nicely balanced the weight of the undercarriage and allowed the lever to operate quite easily. However, I couldnt quite get the lever into the up gate. Examination of everything showed that (1) the tyre was hitting the brake master cylinder and its elbow connexion and (2) the brake slave cylinder was catching the rudder cable. Initially it looked as if LG02 might be too far to starboard, but I had taken care when fixing LG01 into the fuselage to have LG02 temporarily fitted, and inserted packing to keep LG02 equidistant from the tunnel at each side. The other possibility that occurred to me was that (despite careful measurements against the manual callout) Id pre-compressed the LG06 suspension block at bit too much, causing the distance between the LG08 pivots and the LG02 pivots to be too small, thus making the LG02 swinging arm retract too far. I tried backing off the M8 stiffnuts a little (which involved removing and re-installing the bungee again - nobody mentioned how hard it is to thread the bungee around LG02B anchor tube) and that did seem to allow a little but more movement in the up direction but nowhere near enough to get the lever into the up gate. While looking at everything after that adjustment, it seems that the linkage is not quite going over-centre in the down position - it appears the 3 pivots are just about in line with each other. I wonder if lengthening the suspension assembly has caused that. Can anyone suggest what I might be doing wrong, please, or any way to solve the problem? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Jun 06, 2015
Keith - right on - it WAS Ron Parigoris who wrote about this at some length a few years ago - sorry Ron, I couldn't remember who it was. If Ron reads this perhaps he might be kind enough to reproduce his e-mails again for the benefit of our fading memories! Cheers, -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443175#443175 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Filling in ends of flap and aileron
From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>
Date: Jun 07, 2015
For aesthetic and aerodynamic reasons I want to fill in the end ribs of the flaps and ailerons. The standard way to do that is cutting blue foam to size, making flox corners and finishing with two layers of bid. Given that it is non structural, would it not be easier and lighter just to fill it up with a stiff epoxy / micro mix? Anybody done that, and might there be good reasons NOT to do it? -------- Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443178#443178 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Date: Jun 07, 2015
Hi Group Here's some info on over-center in gallery: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27433 Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443182#443182 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "A. Buess Aviatik" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch>
Subject: undercarriage retraction problem
Date: Jun 07, 2015
Hi Rowland In the (old) Europa Aircraft News(letter) No 23 there is a recommendation made by Any Draper about how to proceed when there is a conflict between the brake master cylinder and the mono tire (see page 11). This seemed to be a known problem with some kits. I had this problem too and had to reposition the master cylinder. Neville Eyre gave me a detailed instruction. Let me know if you need it, I could make a PDF and send it to you. Regards, Alfred Alfred Buess CH-3700 Spiez, Switzerland Europa XS HB-YKI, Ercoupe 415-E N94804 -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 9:47 PM Subject: Europa-List: undercarriage retraction problem --> Ive finally managed to satisfy myself that the flaps are operating over the correct range, and moved on to installing the undercarriage. After fitting the LG02 swinging arm to the LG01 mounting frame, I was still (just) able to operate the retract lever without any bungee assistance. Then I fitted the wheel and brake to LG02 and of course that made it too heavy to retract without the bungee. Yesterday I fitted the bungee and was pleased to find a number of loops and tension that nicely balanced the weight of the undercarriage and allowed the lever to operate quite easily. However, I couldnt quite get the lever into the up gate. Examination of everything showed that (1) the tyre was hitting the brake master cylinder and its elbow connexion and (2) the brake slave cylinder was catching the rudder cable. Initially it looked as if LG02 might be too far to starboard, but I had taken care when fixing LG01 into the fuselage to have LG02 temporarily fitted, and inserted packing to keep LG02 equidistant from the tunnel at each side. The other possibility that occurred to me was that (despite careful measurements against the manual callout) Id pre-compressed the LG06 suspension block at bit too much, causing the distance between the LG08 pivots and the LG02 pivots to be too small, thus making the LG02 swinging arm retract too far. I tried backing off the M8 stiffnuts a little (which involved removing and re-installing the bungee again - nobody mentioned how hard it is to thread the bungee around LG02B anchor tube) and that did seem to allow a little but more movement in the up direction but nowhere near enough to get the lever into the up gate. While looking at everything after that adjustment, it seems that the linkage is not quite going over-centre in the down position - it appears the 3 pivots are just about in line with each other. I wonder if lengthening the suspension assembly has caused that. Can anyone suggest what I might be doing wrong, please, or any way to solve the problem? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2015
From: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Filling in ends of flap and aileron
Hi Jeroen, I did this with both the flaps and ailerons. It's very easy to do, adds negligible weight and the finished result looks very professional. I would recommend blue foam over ladling in the filler every time. Just lay the prepared foam sheet (cut slightly thicker than the close-out to be filled) on the floor, stand the flap end-on onto the foam and tap it hard with the palm of your hand, this will leave an imprint of the required profile in the foam, cut it out, fettle to fit, bond it in and leave it. The next day you just block down the foam to the laminate edge and lay up as you described. You should get the whole lot done in a day. m.v.g. Nigel On 07/06/2015 11:44, jglazener wrote: > > For aesthetic and aerodynamic reasons I want to fill in the end ribs of the flaps and ailerons. The standard way to do that is cutting blue foam to size, making flox corners and finishing with two layers of bid. Given that it is non structural, would it not be easier and lighter just to fill it up with a stiff epoxy / micro mix? Anybody done that, and might there be good reasons NOT to do it? > > -------- > Jeroen > > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443178#443178 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2015
On 6 Jun 2015, at 19:21, JonSmith wrote: > Rowland, just a further thought, you haven't set it up so that it's trying to retract the wheel too far/ too high? Whereas the undercarriage downlock gate and set up IS critical I don't think the exact position of the undercarriage lever UP lock gate is quite so important. Obviously you want it up as much as possible and not too low but it can't of course go up too far. Adjusting the rear latching face of the upgate rearwards slightly would mean the wheel wouldn't lock up quite as far but it might then not foul the items you mentioned. You would then have to completely re-set up the flap retraction adjustment again with probably a new flap retraction horn etc.! Jon - thanks for your message (and thanks too to Alan, Keith, Ron and Alfred for their helpful contributions to this topic). I was coming to the same conclusion as you, that the slot for the retract lever must be slightly too long. Not sure why this should be as my journal (and my memory!) doesnt seem to indicate that I extended the slot from the as-supplied state. Anyway, I think that will be the answer to my problem - in effect, dont try to retract the gear so much! As you say, once I have restored the suspension block compression to the correct value and checked for correct over-centring of the mechanism in the down position, Ill have to file the up" gate so that the lever latches _before_ any contact between the U/C and other parts. Then go back to the flap control; first get a new FL19 from the factory then go through the whole adjustment process again to find the right position for the hole in FL19. Once its all done, I wonder would there be any need to provide some sort of stop to prevent the retract lever moving too far forward? I think Ill worry about that when I see how much aftwards extension of the up gate is needed. Thanks again to the Europa community for all your help and encouragement. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
Date: Jun 08, 2015
Rowland, What type of tyre did you installed? 7.00x8 or 8.00x8 ? The bigger tyre does not allow the gear to get to the fully retracted position as shown in the Manual. You can live with that and adjust the lever slot up limits accordingly. Then you have to accept that the retracted wheel protudes a little bit more in the slipstream. This is a small inconvenience compared to the better ground clearance provided by the bigger tyre. Regards Remi F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 1200 hours Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443207#443207 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: exhaust pipe clearance
Date: Jun 10, 2015
Gentlemenheres a situation and a question: I have maintained 1.50 inches clearance between the inside surface of my lower cowl and my engine exhaust pipes. I set this up w/ the assumption that this would be adequate considering that I have used a high temperature flame retardant resin (HTR250FR, by Resin Services, Inc.) for my custom cowls. It maintains a Flexural Modulus at 350 degrees F. of 6.25 x 36,000 (whatever that means). Would anyone be willing to opine on the advisability of applying some aluminized, adhesive-backed, heat barrier, to reflect radiant heat away from the cowl surface and back towards the engine and exhaust? (This so-called heat barrier is a composite consisting of aluminum foil on a backing material which looks like burlap to which is applied an adhesive good for 350 degrees F.) (I have a total of 10 sq. in. of inlet and 14 sq. in. of exit area for air circulation within the cowl.) (Obviously, this is not a 9xx Rotax installation.) Comments and opinions appreciated in advance, Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust pipe clearance
Date: Jun 10, 2015
Fred First, I have a Rotax 914. I had a little discoloration from exhaust heat on the cowling near the exhaust pipe exit. Probably less than an inch clearance. I used simple aluminum backed tape on the cowling, it is usually good for 2 or 3 years before I replace it, works fine, is light, eliminates further Issues to cowling. Keep it simple and light. You may not even have an issue with an inch and a half clearance . Wait and see, you may have good circulation of air and your cowls sound robust for heat. Can't wait to see you flying over Roche! Sent from my iPad > On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > > Gentlemenheres a situation and a question: > > I have maintained 1.50 inches clearance between the inside surface of my lower cowl and my engine exhaust pipes. I set this up w/ the assumption that this would be adequate considering that I have used a > high temperature flame retardant resin (HTR250FR, by Resin Services, Inc.) for my custom cowls. It maintains a Flexural Modulus at 350 degrees F. of 6.25 x 36,000 (whatever that means). > > Would anyone be willing to opine on the advisability of applying some aluminized, adhesive-backed, heat barrier, to reflect radiant heat away from the cowl surface and back towards the engine and exhaust? > > (This so-called heat barrier is a composite consisting of aluminum foil on a backing material which looks like burlap to which is applied an adhesive good for 350 degrees F.) > > (I have a total of 10 sq. in. of inlet and 14 sq. in. of exit area for air circulation within the cowl.) > > (Obviously, this is not a 9xx Rotax installation.) > > Comments and opinions appreciated in advance, > > Fred > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: undercarriage retraction problem
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2015
On 8 Jun 2015, at 08:38, Remi Guerner wrote: > What type of tyre did you installed? 7.00x8 or 8.00x8 Remi - my tyre, as supplied originally with the kit, is marked 8.00-6. I am intending to adjust the up gate of the retract lever and then re-set the flap travel - I already have my new FL19 from Karen at the factory. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust pipe clearance
Date: Jun 10, 2015
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote: > > Keep it simple and light. Jerryapropos weight, here are my preliminary numbers subject to finish paint, ELT, and some tools: > 2. XX Mar 14 using W. Munich=99s acft scale w/ 4 qts oil + 1 gal. coolant placed top of cowl: > Main Wheel: 757.0# > Tail Wheel: 77.8#* > Total: 834.8# > > * Includes blocking weighing __?__ > > C of G: 60.67=9D > > NOTE: Batteries are mounted on FG platforms which have NOT as yet been bonded in place and are free to slide fore or aft in accordance w/ C of G requirements after ALL components have been installed. > > NOTE: Engine requires 5 quarts of oil because of increased volume of oversized filter. All in all, I confess to having been both pleased and surprised F. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2015
Subject: Re: exhaust pipe clearance
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Fred, the stuff works okay but the glue doesn't hold up. - Paul On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > Gentlemenhere=99s a situation and a question: > > I have maintained 1.50 inches clearance between the inside surface of my > lower cowl and my engine exhaust pipes. I set this up w/ the assumption > that this would be adequate considering that I have used a > high temperature flame retardant resin (HTR250FR, by Resin Services, Inc. ) > for my custom cowls. It maintains a =9CFlexural Modulus at 350 degr ees F. of > 6.25 x 36,000=9D (whatever that means). > > Would anyone be willing to opine on the advisability of applying some > =9Caluminized, adhesive-backed, heat barrier, to reflect radiant he at away > from the cowl surface and back towards the engine and exhaust? > > (This so-called =9Cheat barrier=9D is a composite consisting of aluminum foil > on a backing material which looks like burlap to which is applied an > adhesive good for 350 degrees F.) > > (I have a total of 10 sq. in. of inlet and 14 sq. in. of exit area for ai r > circulation within the cowl.) > > (Obviously, this is not a 9xx Rotax installation.) > > Comments and opinions appreciated in advance, > > Fred > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New (Free) Aviation App
From: "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2015
Quick update, 18,000 launches, more discounts being added for users, more positive national press coverage and keeping it free to pilots. Thanks, Glenn -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Flying 1952 Piper Tri-Pacer Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret) Tucson, Arizona Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443530#443530 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Jun 18, 2015
Stuck in welshpool on the way back from ireland, radiator is dripping, any suggestions ? Anyone have a spare in the uk , swift have gone home but are they still available? -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443756#443756 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2015
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
Graeme, Are you sure it is thevradiatot not a hose connection above it? David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2015-06-18 17:12, graeme bird wrote: > > Stuck in welshpool on the way back from ireland, radiator is dripping, any suggestions ? Anyone have a spare in the uk , swift have gone home but are they still available? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443756#443756 [1] > Links: ------ [1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443756#443756 [2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [3] http://forums.matronics.com [4] http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 18, 2015
You didn't hear it here and don't tell a soul, but I have it on very good authority that if you drain the system, then put in a can of Holts Radweld, run it on the ground for about 20 to 30 minutes, flush completely and replace with usual coolant, it would be surprising to see the leak reappear. However I'm sure that this could only be a temporary "get you home" fix if the leak was just a "pinhole" in the radiator core and not a leaking hose or more severe crack in the top/bottom collectors or large metal spigots. It would also be a good idea to perform a test flight close to an airfield and then inspect for leaks before setting off in good weather conditions with suitable diversion fields en route. Really not to be recommended unless there is little alternative. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443776#443776 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Jun 19, 2015
thanks; abandoned plane with the very nice people at Welshpool. Brough rad home to Milton Keynes; looks repairable, but baffled by why a leak would develop at 180 hours in such a place; even given a poor landing or two. Its where one thin tube joins the main block, back right about 1" up. Maybe poor manufacture or torsional forces/vibration. In stock at Europa so decided to take the opportunity to support them even though painful. May repair for my amusement Nice flight to Waterford and Tipperary preceded the 'event' thankful nothing happened during the water crossings. First time to Ireland yeah! -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443790#443790 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2015
Graeme, As sorry I am to hear of your travails and the trauma of abandoning your bird, (for hopefully only a short while) Ive always found it fascinating to hear you UK flyers nonchalantly refer to storied locales with, at most, a mere shrug of the shouldersthe many places you get to fly over or in and out of with all sorts of historical significance. I understand that its a long way to Tipperaryperhaps a perfect place to visit in a Europa. Best of luck becoming airborne once again, Fred > On Jun 19, 2015, at 2:10 AM, graeme bird wrote: > > abandoned plane with the very nice people at Welshpool. Brough rad home to Milton Keynes; looks repairable, but baffled by why a leak would develop at 180 hours in such a place; even given a poor landing or two. > > Nice flight to Waterford and Tipperary preceded the 'event' thankful nothing happened during the water crossings. First time to Ireland yeah! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
Date: Jun 19, 2015
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
=0AAny chance of a photo of the crack?=0A=0ADuncan McF.=0A=0A=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>=0A ct: Europa-List: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks=0A=0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" thanks; abandoned plane with the very nice people at Welshp ool. Brough rad home o Milton Keynes; looks repairable, but baffled by why a leak would develop at 80 hours in s uch a place; even given a poor landing or two.ts where one thin tube joins the main block, back right about 1" up . Maybe oor manufacture or torsional forces/vibration.In stock at Europa so decided to take the opportunity to suppor t them even hough painful.May repair for my amusementNi ce flight to Waterford and Tipperary preceded the 'event' than kful nothing appened during the water crossings. First time to Ireland yeah!--------raeme Bird-UMPYono Classic/XS 912S /Woodcomp 3000/3Wewby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono ( at)gdbmk.co.ukead this topic online here:http://forums.matro =========================== ========================-= - The Europa-List Email Forum --= Us e the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the m any List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, a nd much much more:-=-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Europa-List-=-================= =========================== ================-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great conte nt also available via the Web Forums!-=-= --> ht tp://forums.matronics.com-=-=============== =========================== ==================-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank y ou for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List A dmin.-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution-==== =========================== =========================== ===0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>
Date: Jun 19, 2015
its more of a tiny crater or solder bubble; perhaps a manufacturing flaw. The brown is my stupidity, tired to get the engine hotter in winder, but putting some roofing joint tape over a bit off it, or course it was tar based and I had to remove with petrol (from the other side) -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443810#443810 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02771_2_337.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02771_4_105.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2015
Subject: Re: Stuck at welshpool radiator leaks
From: rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us
Hi Graeme If it were I who was stuck, if I knew my aeroplane and surrounding flying area and it was landing friendly, I wouldn't have a problem cleaning it as best you can, then applying some JB KWIK Epoxy (which IMHO should be in every repair kit for every vehicle you own). It used to be touted as 4 minute, now it's touted as 6 minute, I would wait at room temperature for at least 2 hours before filling with coolant and warming it up. Temperature rating is well above spit (and coolant) sizzle temp. I would then go taxi around and get things real hot and see if it's working. If it holds under the very hot temp you just tested to. Then I would launch at dawn or when it's the lowest temp you can find and keep things as cool as you can. I'm not familiar enough with Rotax operation on your aeroplane, but on automobiles if you can not heat up coolant too much, leave the radiator cap loose where it isn't under any pressure. Then if you test with pressure and fly with none chance of success is increased greatly. Look for a reason, any good reason to not do as I mention, If you can't find a good reason to not do it............ Over the years I have done roadway repairs on quite a few radiators for cars and motorcycles. Even what seems like impossible situations can be overcome if you have some JB KWIK. A few months I rescued a friend with a high end Jap car with aluminium radiator and plastic radiator hose nipple. The top nipple pretty much disintegrated, just touch it and it cracked into pieces. Late at night nothing opened. I garbage picked a coke can, cut it with my Swiss Army knife into a sheet, scuffed where Epoxy was going to go, poked some strategic holes here and there, sewed up as needed with safety wire (another thing you want in tool kit) if you don't have, paperclips work OK as would bailing wire, even copper wire). Anyway went after it with JB KWIK, left radiator cap loose and he used the car a week like that!

April 14, 2015 - June 19, 2015

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