Europa-Archive.digest.vol-nn
November 02, 2017 - December 16, 2017
> ELT is an interesting question. Maybe there are few landings where you are not
either dead or able to use a PLB in UK.
> But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you are alive
and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
> I assume we are talking about forced landings.
> Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before contacting the
earth.
>
> Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilots)?
> If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every ac.
> Should you consider also a stick shaker?
> Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
> (you know its an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter to the deck
of your aircraft carrier...).
> Actually thats the only way to really know whats happening right now and how
far or how close you are from stalling situation.
> Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight, temp, air
density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
>
> Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a giant hight
bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
> However, I have seen it only when Im stalling by purpose and every time just
before touch down.
> BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effect.
> Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
>
> David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna for you.
> Yes, we should really get into a "Mines bigger than yours sort of argument".
> Thats easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join us.
> Or should you bring one for you from UK?
>
> I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
> Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
> Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count Sweden-Finland...
> However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The Total Size)
matters!
>
> Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km (England only 130.000 km).
> My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km.
> So, mine is significantly larger (40%).
> So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
>
> Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
> That means you David have 3.700 m of UK and I have 61.500 m of Finland.
> That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
>
> This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here than in
UK an average.
> I am pretty sure you do agree this.
>
> This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many times,
> but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it again if
necessary.
> Thats easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most succesfull pilots
in the world
> (pls read the statistics around WWII).
>
> "So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
>
> I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with girls.
>
> Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
>
> PS: I checked my Europas logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight hours and
800 landings since 2007
> (this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and LamcoCub
OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years" OH-FIN")
>
> davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>
> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more
likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to
a PLB.
>
> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards,
David
>
> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top
to bottom of UK!
>
> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the
remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the
world.
>
> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>
> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>
> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>
> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here
with my monowheel.
> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters.
They just look, maybe!!!
> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life!
In that case, ELT were superb.
>
> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).
>
> David, Im pretty sure You get it!
>
> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>
> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
>
> ***
> About me /my status:
>
> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year
ago
> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>
> David,
> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>
> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>
> Raimo
> OH-XRT
> Finland
>
> davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>
> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted
and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
>
> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would
take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical'
- firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need
much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile,
or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean
or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort
of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very
few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e.
GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My
plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention
is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are
suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website
in the 'Flying' section.
>
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I do agree.
>
> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically
after your critical impact.
>
> Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB
or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
>
> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>
> Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then,
PLB is useless!
>
> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude,
or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>
> (thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves
will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>
> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden.
That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>
> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female
ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
>
> but in the case _of silence_ with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb
AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
>
> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your
engine and listen strange sounds...
>
> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through
my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>
> I would like to say:
>
> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>
> (isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like
that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
> Raimo
> Finland
> OH-XRT
> The fastest Europa ever build
> (and only 4-seater)
>
> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>
>
> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for
a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source,
someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>
> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>
> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have
all information readily available through the registration authorities. On
a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>
> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the
ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that
was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional
people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the
PLB is activated.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097 [1]
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mansfield <europaul383(at)hotmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I appreciate my SmartAss....very effective, and did indeed nag me when i was
once distracted (at altitude though) in my little underpowered HB, to my pl
easant surprise :-)
> On Nov 2, 2017, at 11:44 AM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Raimo, I like the Smartass because it is simple, cheap and very effective,
but any device giving warnin of impending stall coming at you through you h
eadset in a way you cannot ignore is good. Certainly it should be related to
angle of attack rather than raw speed, but Smartass is g compensated so tha
t its trigger levels are effectively the same as if measuring AOA, since the
re is a precise mathematical relationship between air speed, g forces and AO
A. The AOA systems I have come across cost the wrong side of =C2=A31000 and a
re complex to fit, whilst Smartass costs =C2=A3200 and is dead simple to fit
. It also for good measure reminds you to put the gear down!. The standard E
uropa stall warner with a buzzer in the head rest is in my experience next t
o useless and has no doubt been wingeing almost inaudibly (to the ageing ear
equipped with the latest ANR headsets) in all the (significant number) of E
uropa stall spin accidents.
>
> How many fatal accidents are you aware of where an ELT saved the day? That
is where the pilot survive the landing was unable to summon help and died b
efore help arrived but could have been saved had he been found within a few h
ours. No doubt there are some, but I cannot recall any.
>
> Regards, David
>
>
>
>
>> On 2017-11-02 11:12, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> this is fun.
>>
>> ELT is an interesting question.
>>
>> Maybe there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use
a PLB in UK.
>> But in Finland, by statistically, most landings are succesfull ie you are
alive and you are able to use your PLB if you like so.
>> I assume we are talking about forced landings.
>> Personally I would launch my PLB when airborne and well before contacting
the earth.
>>
>> Smart ass is a nice gizmo, but do we really need it (if we are real Pilot
s)?
>> If it really were so lifesaver, I assume it would be mandatory in every a
c.
>> Should you consider also a stick shaker?
>> Personally I do like my Angle of Attack -system
>> (you know it=C2=B4s an essential equipment if you wanna land your fighter
to the deck of your aircraft carrier...).
>> Actually that=C2=B4s the only way to really know what=C2=B4s happening ri
ght now and how far or how close you are from stalling situation.
>> Angle of Attack is everything. Speed is nothing, as well as weight, temp,
air density or your very personal size. Just AofA!
>>
>> Also, my Europas original EA stall warner (audio-visual /horn and a giant
hight bright blue led in the field of view) works also satisfactorily.
>> However, I have seen it only when I=C2=B4m stalling by purpose and every t
ime just before touch down.
>> BTW I have always used 70 knots during the final until on the ground effe
ct.
>> Also, when landing to my strip 12/30, total lenght 300 metres.
>>
>> David, 2018 is coming soon. I will start to prepare my lakeside Sauna for
you.
>> Yes, we should really get into a "Mine=C2=B4s bigger than your=C2=B4s sor
t of argument".
>> That=C2=B4s easier to verify in sauna if I call couple of Ladies to join u
s.
>> Or should you bring one for you from UK?
>>
>> I have discussed this thing many times with girls.
>> Maybe yours is a little longer than mine (40 mn means 6%).
>> Then you count UK not England and in that case I could count Sweden-Finla
nd...
>> However, girls arguments that the lenght is nothing - only TTS (The Total
Size) matters!
>>
>> Your area /size (UK) is 242.000 km=C2=B2 (England only 130.000 km=C2=B2).
>> My area /size (Finland) is 338.000 km=C2=B2.
>> So, mine is significantly larger (40%).
>> So far, most girls have been here with me happy.
>>
>> Your total population is about 65.000.000 persons and we have 5.500.000.
>> That means you David have 3.700 m=C2=B2 of UK and I have 61.500 m=C2=B2 o
f Finland.
>> That means mine is actually almost 17 times bigger than yours.
>>
>> This is also argument for ELT & PLB; it is 17 times more valuable here th
an in UK an average.
>> I am pretty sure you do agree this.
>>
>> This land is so atractive that little Russians have tried to get it many t
imes,
>> but we have pushed them back quite easily every time and will do it again
if necessary.
>> That=C2=B4s easy because Finnish Airforce have had and have the most succ
esfull pilots in the world
>> (pls read the statistics around WWII).
>>
>> "So few have not been ever so thankful to so few"
>>
>> I hardly can wait your comments and also sauna test match FIN-UK with gir
ls.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Raimo
>> Finland
>> OH-XRT
>>
>> PS: I checked my Europa=C2=B4s logbook; actually I have logged 600 flight
hours and 800 landings since 2007
>> (this year unfortunately none w RT, but 50 hours by C172 OH-CVK and Lamco
Cub OH-U666 + one hour in a hot Air Balloon "Finland 100-years" OH-FIN")
>>
>>
>> davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 2.11.2017 klo 11:09:
>>> Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged s
paces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable pl
aces in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it do
esn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either d
ead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass i
s much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT i
n addition to a PLB.
>>>
>>> Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018
. Regards, David
>>>
>>> PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of arg
ument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 66
0nm top to bottom of UK!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear David,
>>>
>>> you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remot
e place (and you have not launched your PLB),
>>> ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that
it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places i
n the world.
>>>
>>> Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
>>>
>>> Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
>>>
>>> (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
>>>
>>> For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private st
rip here with my monowheel.
>>> To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of met
ers. They just look, maybe!!!
>>> Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my l
ife! In that case, ELT were superb.
>>>
>>> So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (
AirMaster).
>>>
>>> David, I=C2=B4m pretty sure You get it!
>>>
>>> Go on! I know you can have your burst!
>>>
>>> Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind
?
>>>
>>> ***
>>> About me /my status:
>>>
>>> - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
>>> - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash o
ne year ago
>>> - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back ag
ain.
>>> - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
>>>
>>> David,
>>> pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
>>>
>>> Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
>>>
>>> Raimo
>>> OH-XRT
>>> Finland
>>>
>>> davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
>>>
>>>
>>> Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are
sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating fl
ying exploits.
>>>
>>> Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context
I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts
of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and
don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state t
o work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion e
ither in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of th
at!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not wal
k away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly
some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, e
ntirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility
more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quick
ly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue o
n the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
>>>
>>> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jon,
>>>
>>> I do agree.
>>>
>>> One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work autom
atically after your critical impact.
>>>
>>> It=C2=B4s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch o
n your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less pan
ic situation
>>>
>>> (when trying to survive out from your disaster).
>>>
>>> What=C2=B4s a typical accident? It=C2=B4s during take off or landing. If
shit happens then, PLB is useless!
>>>
>>> PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up alti
tude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
>>>
>>> (that=C2=B4s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically emp
ty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
>>>
>>> I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland a
nd Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
>>>
>>> Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish f
emale ATC love my request to use it and that=C2=B4s why I have no Turbo),
>>>
>>> but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable
VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theor
y.
>>>
>>> So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it=C2=B4s easy to
monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
>>>
>>> (in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music th
rough my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
>>>
>>> I would like to say:
>>>
>>> ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
>>>
>>> (isn=C2=B4t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinki
ng things like that, should be vice versa...)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Raimo
>>> Finland
>>> OH-XRT
>>> The fastest Europa ever build
>>> (and only 4-seater)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
>>>
>>> Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debati
ng for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reli
able source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.
>>>
>>> For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.
>>>
>>> With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as th
ey have all information readily available through the registration authoriti
es. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.
>>>
>>> I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms.
On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details,
and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of
three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the e
vent that the PLB is activated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My fav europa flight vid to watch.... |
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
....wish there were many more :-)
https://youtu.be/nFg4tojrV64
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
These are worth considering also.
http://www.aveoengineering.com/lsa-experimental-ul-kits-and-gliders/powerburst-daylite/
More expensive, but more secure fitting in my opinion (screws & silicon adhesive).
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474154#474154
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com> |
Hi Duncan
Good question. My splash in the North Sea was more than a year ago now. I am
delighted to say I have flown a further 130 hours since in Megg my new Mono
To add to both your and David=99s earlier comments.
Being under a towering object (I.e. cliff) inhibits the signal.
HM Coastguard do have to contend with spurious and false alarm signals. Cons
equently they do, quite reasonably, execute checks on all phone numbers tha
t they have recorded for the pilot as well as contacting other organisations
, home airport, nearby airport before committing resources. Inevitably this t
akes time.
So whenever flying over the sea file a Flight Plan and have appropriate surv
ival kit ready.
The latest technology GPS PLB=99s identify position to within a few me
tres.
The older technology GPS PLB=99s less so. Sometimes many kilometres un
til further satellite passes are possible. If your existing PLB is more than
7 years old it is possibly worth revisiting its specification and comparing
it to the latest models.
Extract from final AAIB Report on GBYSA follows;
The pilot=99s PLB was equipped with a 406 MHz transmitter, which is de
tectable by satellites of the Cospas-Sarsat Programme. In order to determine
an approximate position of the activated beacon, more than one satellite pa
ss was required.
At 1036 hrs, a downlink from a satellite pass alerted the UK Aeronautical Re
scue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) to the activation of the beacon. A further s
atellite pass at 1056 hrs was required to resolve the beacon=99s locat
ion in the approximate area of the accident. The ARCC attempted to contact t
he beacon=99s registered owner (the pilot) and made further enquiries,
to determine the nature of the incident and decide on the appropriate respo
nse1. At 1108 hrs, a land-based Coastguard rescue team was tasked to the are
a of the accident. This was followed later by the deployment of RNLI lifeboa
ts and a SAR helicopter.
The ARCC commented that GPS-enabled PLB=99s will generally allow much q
uicker location of the transmitter than those without this capability. Addit
ionally, the more information and, in particular, contact details that owner
s include when registering a PLB, the quicker the ARCC can respond and the h
igher the probability of them deploying the correct rescue assets.
Additional information on what happens when a PLB is activated can be found a
t
www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/
Regards
Bob
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
Bob, Not quite clear whether your PLB had GPS included. David
On 2017-11-03 08:41, Bob Hitchcock wrote:
> Hi Duncan
>
> Good question. My splash in the North Sea was more than a year ago now. I am
delighted to say I have flown a further 130 hours since in Megg my new Mono
>
> To add to both your and David's earlier comments.
>
> Being under a towering object (I.e. cliff) inhibits the signal.
> HM Coastguard do have to contend with spurious and false alarm signals. Consequently
they do, quite reasonably, execute checks on all phone numbers that they
have recorded for the pilot as well as contacting other organisations, home
airport, nearby airport before committing resources. Inevitably this takes time.
> So whenever flying over the sea file a Flight Plan and have appropriate survival
kit ready.
>
> The latest technology GPS PLB's identify position to within a few metres.
>
> The older technology GPS PLB's less so. Sometimes many kilometres until further
satellite passes are possible. If your existing PLB is more than 7 years old
it is possibly worth revisiting its specification and comparing it to the latest
models.
>
> Extract from final AAIB Report on GBYSA follows;
>
> The pilot's PLB was equipped with a 406 MHz transmitter, which is detectable
by satellites of the Cospas-Sarsat Programme. In order to determine an approximate
position of the activated beacon, more than one satellite pass was required.
> At 1036 hrs, a downlink from a satellite pass alerted the UK Aeronautical Rescue
Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) to the activation of the beacon. A further satellite
pass at 1056 hrs was required to resolve the beacon's location in the approximate
area of the accident. The ARCC attempted to contact the beacon's registered
owner (the pilot) and made further enquiries, to determine the nature
of the incident and decide on the appropriate response1. At 1108 hrs, a land-based
Coastguard rescue team was tasked to the area of the accident. This was
followed later by the deployment of RNLI lifeboats and a SAR helicopter.
> The ARCC commented that GPS-enabled PLB's will generally allow much quicker location
of the transmitter than those without this capability. Additionally, the
more information and, in particular, contact details that owners include when
registering a PLB, the quicker the ARCC can respond and the higher the probability
of them deploying the correct rescue assets.
> Additional information on what happens when a PLB is activated can be found at
> www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/ [1]
>
> Regards
>
> Bob
>
> http://www.theeuropaclub.org/ [2]
Links:
------
[1] http://www.cospas-sarsat.int/en/
[2] http://www.theeuropaclub.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mansfield <europaul383(at)hotmail.com> |
"...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK!"
UK population 65.6 M
Finnish population 5.5 M
Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Sent: 02 November 2017 09:10
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: ELT
Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces
in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in
the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter
the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able
to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely
to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a
PLB.
Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards,
David
PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument,
but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to
bottom of UK!
On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Dear David,
you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place
(and you have not launched your PLB),
ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is
not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world.
Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.
Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!
(which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).
For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here
with my monowheel.
To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They
just look, maybe!!!
Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In
that case, ELT were superb.
So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).
David, Im pretty sure You get it!
Go on! I know you can have your burst!
Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?
***
About me /my status:
- my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
- my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year
ago
- my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
- my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.
David,
pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!
Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.
Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christoph Both <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
Hello Dave,
Thank you very much. I know Creighton personally and have just seen his Europa.
I think this is the perfect light for my plane. I am into low draw my GRT/analog
panel only draws 2.5 amps, so the extra 1.5 amps for nav/strobe is amazing.
Christoph
#223 Trigear 912ULS Woodcomp SR 3000/2 blade (saved 10 pounds)
Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
On 2017-11-03, 09:08, "owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of David
Watts"
wrote:
Christoph
TLAC Strobes are at:-
http://www.g-tlac.com/Documents/Strobes%20and%20beacons%2022%208%2016.pdf
Dave Watts
> On 2 Nov 2017, at 12:21, Christoph Both wrote:
>
>
> Hello Dave,
> Do you have a link to the Light Aeroplane Company nav lights?
> Thanks,
> Christoph
> #223 Europa
> Wolfville, NS, Canada
>
>
> On 2017-11-02, 07:41, "owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of
David Watts"
wrote:
>
>
> You only need 2 core cable for the LED Nav Strobes available from The
Light Aeroplane Company.
> I fitted them in place of my Nav lights recently and they are great.
>
> Dave Watts
> G-BXDY
>
>> On 1 Nov 2017, at 08:26, John Wighton wrote:
>>
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> If yours is a classic surely the skins are laid up onto the foam cores?
>>
>> I believe a good solution is to use a hole cutting tool mounted onto a long
straight tube (approx. 3/4in dia.). The hole should be on the camber line
(approx. wing bending neutral axis). Cables can be pulled through thereafter
and the ends sealed once all the functional checks are complete.
>>
>> My XS (moulded skin, hollow wings) has wing nav/strobe cables retro fitted
in this way (albeit the boring only is needed at the root and intermediate
rib). Mine had some 2 core cables installed at build but 5 core is needed for
the nav/strobe combination units, so had to be changed.
>>
>> Use shielded cable and connectors at the wing root to enable disassembly.
>>
>> Regards
>> JW
>>
>> --------
>> John Wighton
>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474090#474090
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instuments Misreading |
| From: | "tonyvaccarella" <tony(at)weimagine.com.au> |
Hi Bill,
Thats such a huge RPM variation. My only thought was is one reading engine RPM
while the other is reading propeller RPM?
Regards,
Tony
--------
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474190#474190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mansfield <europaul383(at)hotmail.com> |
Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
-->
"...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK!"
UK population 65.6 M
Finnish population 5.5 M
Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instuments Misreading |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com> |
Bob, Not quite clear whether your PLB had GPS included. David
=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00
=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00=94=00-
Hi David
McMurdo let me have a replacement model to the very latest specification. T
hey retained the unit sent to them for performance check/potential refurbish
.
Here follows the detail on the unit that saw action in the incident.
:AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION MARK: G-BYSA
Regards
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com> |
| Subject: | My fav europa flight vid to watch.... |
Hi Pete
I agree it=99s a super quality. Stephan=99s Europa videos are a
mongst the best I=99ve seen.
Norway is one place I haven=99t been. An idea is starts to form.
Regards
Bob
Subject: Europa-List: My fav europa flight vid to watch....
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
....wish there were many more :-)
https://youtu.be/nFg4tojrV64
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> |
Paul,
you got it!
(and remember, UK is maybe taller but *WE *are larger,
that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km
(we have say 100.000 lakes).
Thats The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap
have seen it,
Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
Now carefully:
During the winter its of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then
say 50-100 cm.
You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
OK.
In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
Lets assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to invitate
them),
and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1 m
for personal area.
Do you believe me?
All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them over
one fucken frozen lake?
Am I grazy?
100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m.
Now you understand (at least I hope so)
- Finland is so big that we could populate you *all* easily...over just
one lake.
(how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not ask
more).
***
I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
Raimo
allekirjoitus
Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
>
> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>
> -->
>
> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of
UK!"
>
> UK population 65.6 M
> Finnish population 5.5 M
>
> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
Raimo, I am very fond of Lake Inari, having walked round it, driven
round it , flown over it and even contemplated diving into it post
sauna, BUT: The problem about getting into 'Mine is bigger than yours'
arguments is that even honourable fellows like you tend to lie through
their teeth! Lake Inari isn't a nice rectangular shape - it is more like
an octupus with measles. It' average height is around 28nm and average
width around 14nm. Being generous with the conversion, (because we like
you!) that is around 50 x 30 km or 1500 million sq metres. So you are
going to ask about seven people to sit/stand on each sq metre. That is
an even more ridiculous idea than Brexit!
Fond regards, David
On 2017-11-03 21:16, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Paul,
>
> you got it!
>
> (and remember, UK is maybe taller but WE are larger,
>
> that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
>
> And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
>
> One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km (we have
say 100.000 lakes).
>
> Thats The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap have seen
it,
>
> Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
>
> Now carefully:
>
> During the winter its of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then say 50-100
cm.
>
> You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
>
> OK.
>
> In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
>
> Lets assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
>
> They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to invitate them),
>
> and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1 m for personal
area.
>
> Do you believe me?
>
> All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them over one fucken
frozen lake?
>
> Am I grazy?
>
> 100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m.
>
> Now you understand (at least I hope so)
>
> - Finland is so big that we could populate you ALL easily...over just one lake.
>
> (how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not ask more).
>
> ***
>
> I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
>
> Raimo
>
> Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
>
>>
>> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
>> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>>
>> -->
>>
>> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of
UK!"
>>
>> UK population 65.6 M
>> Finnish population 5.5 M
>>
>> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> |
And oh David,
Brexit
how about
*Fixit?*
(right now, The Russians are coming, whe should really be together)
Just fly, we all together... in peace!
Raimo
davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 4.11.2017 klo 0:15:
>
> Raimo, I am very fond of Lake Inari, having walked round it, driven
> round it , flown over it and even contemplated diving into it post
> sauna, BUT: The problem about getting into 'Mine is bigger than yours'
> arguments is that even honourable fellows like you tend to lie through
> their teeth! Lake Inari isn't a nice rectangular shape - it is more
> like an octupus with measles. It' average height is around 28nm and
> average width around 14nm. Being generous with the conversion,
> (because we like you!) that is around 50 x 30 km or 1500 million sq
> metres. So you are going to ask about seven people to sit/stand on
> each sq metre. That is an even more ridiculous idea than Brexit!
>
> Fond regards, David
>
> On 2017-11-03 21:16, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> you got it!
>>
>> (and remember, UK is maybe taller but *WE *are larger,
>>
>> that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
>>
>> And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
>>
>> One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km
>> (we have say 100.000 lakes).
>>
>> Thats The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap
>> have seen it,
>>
>> Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
>>
>> Now carefully:
>>
>> During the winter its of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then
>> say 50-100 cm.
>>
>> You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
>>
>> OK.
>>
>> In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
>>
>> Lets assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
>>
>> They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to
>> invitate them),
>>
>> and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1
>> m for personal area.
>>
>> Do you believe me?
>>
>> All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them
>> over one fucken frozen lake?
>>
>> Am I grazy?
>>
>> 100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m.
>>
>> Now you understand (at least I hope so)
>>
>> - Finland is so big that we could populate you *all* easily...over
>> just one lake.
>>
>> (how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not
>> ask more).
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
>>
>> Raimo
>>
>>
>> Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
>>>
>>> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
>>> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
>>> To:europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>>>
>>> -->
>>>
>>> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom
of UK!"
>>>
>>> UK population 65.6 M
>>> Finnish population 5.5 M
>>>
>>> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> |
Dear (Really) David,
seven?
I do love you but coming back,
You grazy Englisman will be sure about that!
Just now Im saying " a bit hurry "...
R
allekirjoitus
davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 4.11.2017 klo 0:15:
>
> Raimo, I am very fond of Lake Inari, having walked round it, driven
> round it , flown over it and even contemplated diving into it post
> sauna, BUT: The problem about getting into 'Mine is bigger than yours'
> arguments is that even honourable fellows like you tend to lie through
> their teeth! Lake Inari isn't a nice rectangular shape - it is more
> like an octupus with measles. It' average height is around 28nm and
> average width around 14nm. Being generous with the conversion,
> (because we like you!) that is around 50 x 30 km or 1500 million sq
> metres. So you are going to ask about seven people to sit/stand on
> each sq metre. That is an even more ridiculous idea than Brexit!
>
> Fond regards, David
>
> On 2017-11-03 21:16, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> you got it!
>>
>> (and remember, UK is maybe taller but *WE *are larger,
>>
>> that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
>>
>> And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
>>
>> One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km
>> (we have say 100.000 lakes).
>>
>> Thats The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap
>> have seen it,
>>
>> Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
>>
>> Now carefully:
>>
>> During the winter its of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then
>> say 50-100 cm.
>>
>> You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
>>
>> OK.
>>
>> In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
>>
>> Lets assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
>>
>> They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to
>> invitate them),
>>
>> and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1
>> m for personal area.
>>
>> Do you believe me?
>>
>> All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them
>> over one fucken frozen lake?
>>
>> Am I grazy?
>>
>> 100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m.
>>
>> Now you understand (at least I hope so)
>>
>> - Finland is so big that we could populate you *all* easily...over
>> just one lake.
>>
>> (how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not
>> ask more).
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
>>
>> Raimo
>>
>>
>> Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
>>>
>>> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
>>> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
>>> To:europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>>>
>>> -->
>>>
>>> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom
of UK!"
>>>
>>> UK population 65.6 M
>>> Finnish population 5.5 M
>>>
>>> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Then there's always Canada LOL ;-)
Cheers,
Pete
> On Nov 3, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> you got it!
>
> (and remember, UK is maybe taller but WE are larger,
>
> that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
>
> And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
>
> One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km (we h
ave say 100.000 lakes).
>
> That=C2=B4s The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap
have seen it,
>
> Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
>
> Now carefully:
>
> During the winter it=C2=B4s of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then
say 50-100 cm.
>
> You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
>
> OK.
>
> In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
>
> Let=C2=B4s assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
>
> They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to invitate the
m),
> and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1 m=C2=B2
for personal area.
>
> Do you believe me?
> All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them over one
fucken frozen lake?
> Am I grazy?
>
> 100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m=C2=B2.
>
> Now you understand (at least I hope so)
> - Finland is so big that we could populate you all easily...over just one l
ake.
> (how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not ask m
ore).
>
> ***
>
> I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
> Raimo
>
> Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
m>
>>
>> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se
rver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
>> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>>
>> -->
>>
>> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to botto
m of UK!"
>>
>> UK population 65.6 M
>> Finnish population 5.5 M
>>
>> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore h
elp)?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> |
David,
Brexit could be a good idea, but what about a lake, you will be sure,
Im coming back!
And you will be wrong, as typically and as normally.
And Im happy you know that lake...is not that wonderfull?
What a place to use your sea plane?
And: do you agree the fact that *Finland***is really a lot more bigger
than a whole little Kigdom of UK?
Maybe I should take a one more larger lake. We have them a lot, You know.
David!
Mine is always bigger.
I do like you.
Raimo
allekirjoitus
davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk kirjoitti 4.11.2017 klo 0:15:
>
> Raimo, I am very fond of Lake Inari, having walked round it, driven
> round it , flown over it and even contemplated diving into it post
> sauna, BUT: The problem about getting into 'Mine is bigger than yours'
> arguments is that even honourable fellows like you tend to lie through
> their teeth! Lake Inari isn't a nice rectangular shape - it is more
> like an octupus with measles. It' average height is around 28nm and
> average width around 14nm. Being generous with the conversion,
> (because we like you!) that is around 50 x 30 km or 1500 million sq
> metres. So you are going to ask about seven people to sit/stand on
> each sq metre. That is an even more ridiculous idea than Brexit!
>
> Fond regards, David
>
> On 2017-11-03 21:16, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> you got it!
>>
>> (and remember, UK is maybe taller but *WE *are larger,
>>
>> that means we could easily populate here say 100.000.000 people)
>>
>> And, if you Paul happen to like maths, think about this:
>>
>> One (just one, not the largest) of our lake is around 100 km x 100 km
>> (we have say 100.000 lakes).
>>
>> Thats The Lake Inari (all who have flown to Jos Okhuisen and Nordkap
>> have seen it,
>>
>> Jos is living on the beech of The Lake Inari).
>>
>> Now carefully:
>>
>> During the winter its of course frozen. The thickness of ice is then
>> say 50-100 cm.
>>
>> You can drive any truck or even tanks there then.
>>
>> OK.
>>
>> In the world there are about 7.600.000.000 people right now 2017.
>>
>> Lets assume there are 10.000.000.000 people 2030.
>>
>> They all could easily come to The Lake Inari (if we happen to
>> invitate them),
>>
>> and stay over the ice quite comfortable and each person will have 1
>> m for personal area.
>>
>> Do you believe me?
>>
>> All the people from the world to Finland and we could locate them
>> over one fucken frozen lake?
>>
>> Am I grazy?
>>
>> 100 km x 100 km = 100.000 m x 100.000 m = 10.000.000.000 m.
>>
>> Now you understand (at least I hope so)
>>
>> - Finland is so big that we could populate you *all* easily...over
>> just one lake.
>>
>> (how to get food? Just make a hole to the ice and get a fish. Do not
>> ask more).
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I hope you all understand this was an ELT related case.
>>
>> Raimo
>>
>>
>> Paul Mansfield kirjoitti 3.11.2017 klo 15:26:
>>>
>>> Ah - Raimo covered this in more mathematical detail!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
>>> Sent: 03 November 2017 11:59
>>> To:europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: ELT
>>>
>>> -->
>>>
>>> "...it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom
of UK!"
>>>
>>> UK population 65.6 M
>>> Finnish population 5.5 M
>>>
>>> Relative chances of (crash) landing near a populated area (and therefore help)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Turning propeller backwards |
| From: | "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
What if someone's been turning my propeller/Rotax 912ULS backwards through several
revolutions? I know in that case oil will be "sucked" out of the hydraulic
tappets and damage would/could be caused to the valve train.
Would I hear clattering on engine start and would the noise continue? Or after
initial clattering, would the tappets fill within a few minutes and the clattering
disappear? The trouble is that someone else did the first start and he didn't
report unusual noises.
The engine has subsequently run for two hours including four flights. Should I
now undertake investigations for damage and if so, what should I be doing to put
this worry behind me? Rocker covers off and look at valve spring caps? Check
magnetic plug? Prime the oil system again to purge air out of the tappets?
Your advice would be very welcome, thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474335#474335
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turning propeller backwards |
| From: | Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> |
Maybe put the question to the RotaxEngines list?
On 11/5/2017 2:37 AM, jonathanmilbank wrote:
>
> What if someone's been turning my propeller/Rotax 912ULS backwards through several
revolutions? I know in that case oil will be "sucked" out of the hydraulic
tappets and damage would/could be caused to the valve train.
>
> Would I hear clattering on engine start and would the noise continue? Or after
initial clattering, would the tappets fill within a few minutes and the clattering
disappear? The trouble is that someone else did the first start and he
didn't report unusual noises.
>
> The engine has subsequently run for two hours including four flights. Should
I now undertake investigations for damage and if so, what should I be doing to
put this worry behind me? Rocker covers off and look at valve spring caps? Check
magnetic plug? Prime the oil system again to purge air out of the tappets?
>
> Your advice would be very welcome, thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning propeller backwards |
Jan,
Go to Rotax-Owner.com <http://rotax-owner.com/> and under
support/bulletins you=99ll find Engine Manuals. Find the
installation, operators and maintenance manuals and download them. In
there you=99ll find information on how to check your valve train
for entrained air and check for any damage.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
> On Nov 5, 2017, at 1:51 AM, Jan de Jong wrote:
>
>
> Maybe put the question to the RotaxEngines list?
>
>
> On 11/5/2017 2:37 AM, jonathanmilbank wrote:
>>
>> What if someone's been turning my propeller/Rotax 912ULS backwards
through several revolutions? I know in that case oil will be "sucked"
out of the hydraulic tappets and damage would/could be caused to the
valve train.
>>
>> Would I hear clattering on engine start and would the noise continue?
Or after initial clattering, would the tappets fill within a few minutes
and the clattering disappear? The trouble is that someone else did the
first start and he didn't report unusual noises.
>>
>> The engine has subsequently run for two hours including four flights.
Should I now undertake investigations for damage and if so, what should
I be doing to put this worry behind me? Rocker covers off and look at
valve spring caps? Check magnetic plug? Prime the oil system again to
purge air out of the tappets?
>>
>> Your advice would be very welcome, thanks.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk> |
Thinking of fitting these http://aviolights.com/navigator-ultra-360.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474438#474438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Yes that is sort of what I was thinking, but a bit longer towards the
L/E to really blend it nicely. As for the frontal area, or Flat plate
area, I think I read (tried to find it again but cant)
That the FPA for drag is any surface between zero and approximately 45
degrees to the air flow, so any surface blended at an angle greater than
45 will have little to no induced form drag.
And the amount of skin drag as compared to the whole skin of the A/C
would be so small as to not be of any real concern I would think, again
I could be wrong. Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin
possibly even just a blending at the front and a fill insert between the
two parts to close the gap when the flaps are up.
If anyone knows the actual figures for the FPA I would like to know
Regards
craig
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings
only
Maybe the attached would qualify as a fence.
I made these years ago but never got around to fitting or flying them,
not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates edge-on to the wind
would create more drag than the greatly additional skin and frontal
areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect of
pressure recovery).
Maybe one day!
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Date: 15/10/2017 12:18
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdf
which applies to swept wings.
Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the
outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But
drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on
the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable
decrease in stall speed?
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 14/10/2017 06:08
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my
thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a
"fence" to help reduce spanwise flow.
What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain
Regards
Craig
Kit 577, final prep before paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
jonathanmilbank wrote:
> I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets
(especially
the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is
interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag
than
the tyres and wheels."
Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I
posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier
this
week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] )
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
Will,
Your assumptions were right and the standard Rotax, Europa, Bob Knuckles R
otax powered electrical systems are all wired basically the same. The devi
l is sometimes in the details.
As the Capacitor discharges, it has to dump its charge somewhere. Like man
y others, I put a grain of wheat incandescent bulb in my alternator warning
light circuit. This allows a slow path to ground for the capacitor discha
rge. (Evident with a slowly dimming alternator light after engine shut dow
n.) Also, the incandescent warning light is required to properly indicate
an alternator (stator) output failure in these old style regulator units.
Of course, in these type systems, if the regulator fails, you get no warnin
g from the idiot light.
Pulling the CB on the circuit and getting anything but a clean power shutdo
wn may indicate your ammeter to shunt or your Dynon indicating system is n
ot getting a clean break with the CB. If wired per the Europa manual, the
Ducati regulator does not get a CB for the control or alternator field (as
in an internal regulator) as a standard belt driven alternator would.
Email me off line with how your actual setup is, as I have found Dynon not
to always discloses some of their idiosyncrasies with tach, amps, aux power
, etc. I have found in many panels, how the alternator to shunt is set up
will affect how sudden power changes are read. I am interested as my next
project may have a Dynon Skyview, and my research on pro=92s and con=92s i
s on going.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of William Daniell
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 8:22:00 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ammeter spike
Pete
1. Here is the wiring schematic which is stock Europa.
2. the "slow blow fuzes" in the diagram where replaced with 25A and 30A Ci
rcuit breakers respectively
3. The spike occurred when I pulled the ALT circuit breaker while the engi
ne was running. I didn't leave it out for long because I was worried about
damage to the system.
4. I did not pull the battery CB at the same time.
So in summary the ALT CB, when pulled, shuts down the ALT feed to the bus.
My understanding was that one needed to be able to power the electrical sys
tem from either the battery or the alternator alone in the case an emergenc
y.
Many thanks
Will
[Inline image 1]
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Pete > wrote:
Id need to see your wiring schematic, and understand exactly when this surg
e occurs....but there will be a surge if the capacitor is in a discharged s
tate, and if there is a switch and shunt between the capacitor and the duca
tti dump-regulator output, and this switch is closed after the engine is al
ready running.
On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:17 AM, William Daniell > wrote:
Pete
thanks. Is this a problem/potential problem? Or is this a short term even
t?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Pete > wrote:
@zutrasoft.com>>
Depending upon where the large capacitor is, yes, it could spike like that
of it was discharged.
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, William Daniell > wrote:
>
> I have a dynon skyview and the ammeter reads off the shunt per dynon manu
al. My electrical system is standard europa without deviation and i have a
rotax 912
>
> The last time a flew when i started the engine had a red x over the ammet
er (ie not working) where it had worked on the previous flight.
>
> I pulled the alt 30A cb which reset the "instrument" and thereafter it re
ad normally. I left the 30A battery cb set during this process.
>
> My question: When I pulled the cb the amp reading, once it came alive, s
piked up to 60A. I immediately reset the cb and everything settled back do
wn to its normal readings.
>
> Is this spike normal?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Europa-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Jonathan,
I have had a little better performance gain with proper attention to detail
around the gear, engine cowl ducting, and of course the flap brackets.
You will find that it takes as long to do a proper speed kit and transition
s as it does to fill and sand the entire fuselage. There is a lot of detai
l making speed kit transitions properly, making them light, properly secure
d, looking good, easy open to do periodic maintenance, and finally, getting
some speed out of it.
I got 17 Knots at max continuous and 10 overall at low cruise. So you are
about right in your estimates.
I=92ve attached my previous comments and techniques for ways to do transiti
ons. I do not recommend tape and 5 minute glues to fasten a gear speed kit
. Without proper gear leg support and the transitions, the speed gains ar
e less than inspiring.
As for the wing covers. I prefer a fully enclosed wing speed cover, but al
as, you have to take even more time to make it easily and quickly removable
to allow for inspection and maintenance. The Europa style wing covers are
OK as is.
As for putting them in the kit as standard, most manufacturers make this an
option as the old time Cessna owners all know that wheel pants are only mu
d flaps, so why bother. Cirrus and other fixed gear speed freaks all know
that is not true.
Attached are some things I=92ve written on speed kit installation and techn
iques for my customers installations.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:16:49 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
>
I'm reliably informed that the full trigear speed kit, in accurate flight t
ests before and after installation and flown level at Wide Open Throttle in
calm air, showed a full 10 knot speed gain. I'm also informed that the sam
e test performed at 65% power (4800 rpm, 26") gives about a 5 knot gain.
But I would prefer to fit only the flap and fuselage hinge fairings, partly
because they weigh altogether approx. 1 kg while the full speed kit weighs
4.1 kg (9 lbs). Presumably the flap hinge fairings must give some drag red
uction benefit, or else why would they be included in the kit?
Please would you tell me from your own experience how much speed is to be g
ained in the cruise with only flap/fuselage hinge fairings fitted. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473486#473486
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
| From: | "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
Hello Bud,
At the moment my thoughts have become closely focused on my wife, who is undergoing
chemotherapy and suffering many more complications than normally occur. So
I'm putting aircraft plans and modifications on the back burner at least until
next spring.
What you say about the amount of time which needs to be devoted to aerodynamic
improvements, confirms my suspicions. Apart from that I'm asking myself "Do I
really need all that work and expenditure to gain a few knots, when 99% of my
flying is within a 50 mile radius?"
Many thanks for taking the time to make your considered reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474584#474584
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Pitt <stevenwpitt(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Carburetor flange on 912S |
I am biting the bullet and renewing various items on my Rotax 912S.
I have kept photo records of the flanges at each service, and not noticed any wear
as the carburettors and airbox seem well supported.
So what is the common view on changing the flanges as time expired products?
Rotax bulleting SB-912-030R1 seems to suggest only certain engines need changing
but what is the perceived wisdom from the Rotax owners out there?
Also where does one acquire these at the eyewaterinw price that I have seen on
the internet?
Thanks
Steve Pitt
912S on a trigear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Carburetor flange on 912S |
I think youll find that Skydrive source replacements direct from Bing and they
are less eye watering in price.
I changed mine after they had done, according to the records more than fiver years
and it may have been longer. They had no cracks even though Ive prodded and
poked them very well but changed them anyway as I have with a number of items
since buying the aircraft to get a known vintage on life parts.
In MHO if you have the air box fitted and it is well supported then the carbs dont
move on the mounts as much as those who use the cone filters and relying on
the springs Rotax put on the carb, hence putting less strain on the rubber flanges.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Nov 2017, at 21:28, Steven Pitt wrote:
>
>
> I am biting the bullet and renewing various items on my Rotax 912S.
> I have kept photo records of the flanges at each service, and not noticed any
wear as the carburettors and airbox seem well supported.
> So what is the common view on changing the flanges as time expired products?
> Rotax bulleting SB-912-030R1 seems to suggest only certain engines need changing
but what is the perceived wisdom from the Rotax owners out there?
> Also where does one acquire these at the eyewaterinw price that I have seen on
the internet?
> Thanks
> Steve Pitt
> 912S on a trigear
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <duanefamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Ammeter_spike? |
SSBkb27igJl0IGtub3cgaWYgaXTigJlzIGp1c3QgbWUsIGJ1dCB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGFuZCB0aGUg
b25lIG9uIHRoZSBzcGVlZCBraXQgaGFkIG5vIGNvbnRlbnQuIE1heWJlIGEgcmVzZW5kPw0KDQoN
Ck1pa2UNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBXaW5kb3dzIE1haWwNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpGcm9t
OiBidWR5ZXJseUBtc24uY29tDQpTZW50OiDigI5UdWVzZGF54oCOLCDigI5Ob3ZlbWJlcuKAjiDi
gI434oCOLCDigI4yMDE3IOKAjjbigI464oCOMTnigI4g4oCOQU0NClRvOiBldXJvcGEtbGlzdEBt
YXRyb25pY3MuY29t
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
Pay attention to your wife and family. Airplanes are just stuff in compari
son for sure.
On the time it takes, keep in mind that I spent 40 hours on a map case in t
he center console. I=92m way over the top on detail. Detail takes time.
Aerodynamically, I prefer to do aerodynamic detail (fairings & covers) to b
e easily maintainable as well as efficient, which takes time and planning.
To be honest, pants and gear leg fairings can be installed and small fille
ts made and out the door in a week (mostly cure time). Painting, another f
ew days if you are good (I=92m not). The stock pants just need a lot of sc
rews or they look pretty wonky, and all those screws mean time to take apar
t to service/inspect so it doesn=92t get done.
My prayers are with a full recovery for your wife.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of jonathanmilbank
Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:11:41 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
>
Hello Bud,
At the moment my thoughts have become closely focused on my wife, who is un
dergoing chemotherapy and suffering many more complications than normally o
ccur. So I'm putting aircraft plans and modifications on the back burner at
least until next spring.
What you say about the amount of time which needs to be devoted to aerodyna
mic improvements, confirms my suspicions. Apart from that I'm asking myself
"Do I really need all that work and expenditure to gain a few knots, when
99% of my flying is within a 50 mile radius?"
Many thanks for taking the time to make your considered reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474584#474584
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Carburetor flange on 912S |
Steve,
The carb flange life is dependent on care and how well your plane is tuned.
A tuned Rotax places little vibration on the carbs. A properly supported
airbox prevents any further vibration. A bit of care during carb removal
at a two year carb rebuild prevents damage also, so I too have a perfectly
good set of 5 year old carb flanges on the shelf collecting dust as spares
if I crack one of mine during maintenance. I won=92t change the flanges on
the carb until one gets cracked during a carb overhaul or service.
As for the other rubber. Heat and shielding and mechanical damage determin
es the mean time between failure. A Rotax, in-cowled, kept outside on a mi
crolight needs a 5 year change for sure, as it is exposed to UV. The lower
coolant hoses, just above the exhaust, I change at 5 years unless they are
silicone and shielded, due to heat exposure.
The 914 vent tubes can crack in 5 years, so I bite the bullet and keep spar
e hose on hand and change it out at 5 years.
The oil sump line on the bottom banjo (even though it is shielded) I check
every 25 hours, as the reflective heat on that stupidly close fitting makes
it suspect. I wish that was a solid steel line. I may make one someday.
Otherwise, if you have rubber hoses on top of the engine, I think 10 years
is a reasonable time change. If you have silicone hose, definitely 10 year
s. Proper silicone hose is very good, I even put a torch to one to see how
long it would last at 1500F. It got white and held pressure.
That is my opinion after doing a few 5 year hose changes.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Steven Pitt
Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 4:28:13 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Carburetor flange on 912S
I am biting the bullet and renewing various items on my Rotax 912S.
I have kept photo records of the flanges at each service, and not noticed a
ny wear as the carburettors and airbox seem well supported.
So what is the common view on changing the flanges as time expired products
?
Rotax bulleting SB-912-030R1 seems to suggest only certain engines need cha
nging but what is the perceived wisdom from the Rotax owners out there?
Also where does one acquire these at the eyewaterinw price that I have seen
on the internet?
Thanks
Steve Pitt
912S on a trigear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button... |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor
List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund Raiser messages for the rest
of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the
commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
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[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
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given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
<<...Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a
blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap
when the flaps are up...>>Something like the attached? Which also covers the
attach bracket/bolts and the pivot bolt.
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 07/11/2017 11:04
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Yes that is sort of what I was thinking, but a bit longer towards the L/E to really blend it nicely. As for the frontal area, or Flat plate area, I think I read (tried to find it again but cant)That the FPA for drag is any surface between zero and approximately 45 degrees to the air flow, so any surface blended at an angle greater than 45 will have little to no induced form drag.And the amount of skin drag as compared to the whole skin of the A/C would be so small as to not be of any real concern I would think, again I could be wrong. Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap when the flaps are up. If anyone knows the actual figures for the FPA I would like to know Regardscraig From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Maybe
the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got
around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates
edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin
and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect
of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Date: 15/10/2017 12:18
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 14/10/2017 06:08
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my
thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a
"fence" to help reduce spanwise flow.
What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain
Regards
Craig
Kit 577, final prep before paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
jonathanmilbank wrote:
> I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially
the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is
interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than
the tyres and wheels."
Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I
posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this
week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] )
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511
---
This email has been checked for viruses by A - The Europa-List Em========================| Date: | Nov 09, 2017 |
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
<<...Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a
blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap
when the flaps are up...>>Something like the attached? Which also covers the
attach bracket/bolts and the pivot bolt.
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 07/11/2017 11:04
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Yes that is sort of what I was thinking, but a bit longer towards the L/E to really blend it nicely. As for the frontal area, or Flat plate area, I think I read (tried to find it again but cant)That the FPA for drag is any surface between zero and approximately 45 degrees to the air flow, so any surface blended at an angle greater than 45 will have little to no induced form drag.And the amount of skin drag as compared to the whole skin of the A/C would be so small as to not be of any real concern I would think, again I could be wrong. Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap when the flaps are up. If anyone knows the actual figures for the FPA I would like to know Regardscraig From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Maybe
the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got
around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates
edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin
and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect
of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Date: 15/10/2017 12:18
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 14/10/2017 06:08
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my
thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a
"fence" to help reduce spanwise flow.
What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain
Regards
Craig
Kit 577, final prep before paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
jonathanmilbank wrote:
> I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially
the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is
interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than
the tyres and wheels."
Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I
posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this
week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] )
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511
---
This email has been checked for viruses by A - The Europa-List Em========================| From: | Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
For those who don't know who Klaus Savier is, he races a Varieze and is a
fanatic when it comes to drag. For the longest time Klaus was the man to
beat.
I remember going to one of his presentations and looking at his aircraft. I
don't recall if it was the hinge on the canard, or the stakes on the rear
wing but I was surprised that there was no fairing. He had rounded the
front LE of the bracket and that was all.
Knowing Klaus, if he thought he could get 1/10 of a knot gain he would put
a fairing in it.
>From this I concluded with the exception of the outrigger that perhaps
there is little value in the fairing the flap hinges on the Europa.
Just my observation as a lost soul wanting around the Oshkosh airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only |
<<...Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a
blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap
when the flaps are up...>>Something like the attached? Which also covers the
attach bracket/bolts and the pivot bolt.
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 07/11/2017 11:04
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Yes that is sort of what I was thinking, but a bit longer towards the L/E to really blend it nicely. As for the frontal area, or Flat plate area, I think I read (tried to find it again but cant)That the FPA for drag is any surface between zero and approximately 45 degrees to the air flow, so any surface blended at an angle greater than 45 will have little to no induced form drag.And the amount of skin drag as compared to the whole skin of the A/C would be so small as to not be of any real concern I would think, again I could be wrong. Obviously the inner hinge fairing could be very thin possibly even just a blending at the front and a fill insert between the two parts to close the gap when the flaps are up. If anyone knows the actual figures for the FPA I would like to know Regardscraig From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only Maybe
the attached would qualify as a fence.I made these years ago but never got
around to fitting or flying them, not believing that three 1/8" flap hinge plates
edge-on to the wind would create more drag than the greatly additional skin
and frontal areas of the fairing (although it has better form, with prospect
of pressure recovery).Maybe one day! Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net
Date: 15/10/2017 12:18
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
Can't find anything in the NACA library, except:http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1955/naca-rm-a55c30a.pdfwhich applies to swept wings.Logically, there may be an effect in reducing the spanwise flow over the outboard section of the (fowler) flap, when the flap is deployed. But drag in that configuration is a definite advantage in getting the a/c on the ground. Might be worth exploring to see if there is any detectable decrease in stall speed? Duncan McF.----Original Message----
From: craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Date: 14/10/2017 06:08
Subj: RE: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
While on the subject of the outer flap hinge, given its location, my
thoughts were it might be advantageous to turn that hinge faring into a
"fence" to help reduce spanwise flow.
What say yee gentlemen to that. Or is it a lot of work for no real gain
Regards
Craig
Kit 577, final prep before paint
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie
Sent: Saturday, 14 October 2017 7:01 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Full trigear speed kit vs hinge fairings only
jonathanmilbank wrote:
> I particularly like this quote from Bud: "The flap brackets (especially
the outers) are a huge drag source. So is the gear. Gear drag is
interesting. The legs and brake callipers actually produce more drag than
the tyres and wheels."
Exactly the two things I thought would be of interest to you and why I
posted the link (pure luck that I had read this article again earlier this
week, otherwise I would not have thought of it [Wink] )
--------
Marcel Zwakenberg
XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473511#473511
---
This email has been checked for viruses by A - The Europa-List Em========================| Date: | Nov 11, 2017 |
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
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Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
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helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Since the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from
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Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Heindl <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
Testing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some point, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | San Diego Europas? |
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I'll be in SD in February on biz and have the last Saturday off for myself, a
nd was wondering if anyone had the contact info for Robert Lyndsay and his N
77EU? l'd love to swing by and take a look at his ship for inspiration if t
he bird is still out there :-)
Cheers and thx,
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: San Diego Europas? |
| From: | "bill mcclellan" <wilwood(at)earthlink.net> |
Pete, this might be kinda old info but his email might still be: rlindsa2(at)san.rr.com.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475182#475182
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | trip report with pics Abergavenny |
| From: | "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk> |
not an epic adventure I know, but maybe someone will go for the first time and
enjoy it on the basis of these few words and pictures.
https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106041
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
290 hours & 5 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475184#475184
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
Hello all
Im looking for suggestions as to what materials I should use regarding delimitation
and cracking on the Europa main wing and fuselage.
With so many advancements in available materials, I feel overwhelmed in making
my purchase decisions. Further more, I have no practical experience, only theoretical
based on what I have read and watched on the internet.
Issues:
Fiberglass delaminate spots on main wing (core not effected).
Filler/bondo (dry micro??) delaminate spots on main wing.
Hairline cracks (spiderweb) on fuselage and cowl
So with this in mind, the following list is what I think I need to purchase but
need suggestions on.
1. Which resin should I use:
a. Epoxy, polyester, laminating, gel coat, etc
2. Faring compound for pits and surface shaping
a. Bondo, filler, dry micro, etc
*Please recommend brand names and type of product so I can track it down and purchase.
Finally, I know that the Europa uses unidirectional and bidirectional cloth, but
for some reason I cant seem to locate what thickness I should get.
Again, I am a novice at this so any advice as to what materials I should buy and
where, would be very appreciated.
Thank you
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475186#475186
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <duanefamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Resins,_faring_compounds,_etc,_Need_help? |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk> |
You don't say whether you are building or its been completed a while, are you sure
it's not a paint or filler issue ? The fuselage is fibre either side of foam
so I'm not sure how you would see delamination there.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475190#475190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
There isn't a simple answer to this. If you are a beginner to fibreglass
and building a Europa, you really need an expert to look at the problem
and to guide you, otherwise you risk doing unnecessary work and possibly
serious damage. Where are you. The Europa Club may be able to put you in
touch with a local builder or expert. Otherwise I would suggest looking
for a firm which repairs gliders, as they should have the relevant
expertise.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ (.& Chairman of Europa club)
On 2017-11-18 00:30, Vlodek9 wrote:
>
> Hello all
>
> IEUR(tm)m looking for suggestions as to what materials I should use regarding
delimitation and cracking on the Europa main wing and fuselage.
>
> With so many advancements in available materials, I feel overwhelmed in making
my purchase decisions. Further more, I have no practical experience, only theoretical
based on what I have read and watched on the internet.
>
> Issues:
> Fiberglass delaminate spots on main wing (core not effected).
> Filler/bondo (dry micro??) delaminate spots on main wing.
> Hairline cracks (spiderweb) on fuselage and cowl
>
> So with this in mind, the following list is what I think I need to purchase but
need suggestions on.
> EUR1. Which resin should I use:
> a. Epoxy, polyester, laminating, gel coat, etc
>
> 2. Faring compound for pits and surface shaping
> a. Bondo, filler, dry micro, etc
>
> *Please recommend brand names and type of product so I can track it down and
purchase.
>
> Finally, I know that the Europa uses unidirectional and bidirectional cloth,
but for some reason I canEUR(tm)t seem to locate what thickness I should get.
>
> Again, I am a novice at this so any advice as to what materials I should buy
and where, would be very appreciated.
>
> Thank you
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475186#475186 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475186#475186
[2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[3] http://forums.matronics.com
[4] http://wiki.matronics.com
[5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: San Diego Europas? |
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Many thx Bill, i'll give it a try!
Cheers and blue skies,
Pete :)
> On Nov 17, 2017, at 4:52 PM, bill mcclellan wrote:
>
>
> Pete, this might be kinda old info but his email might still be: rlindsa2(at)san.rr.com.
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475182#475182
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
graeme bird wrote:
> You don't say whether you are building or its been completed a while, are you
sure it's not a paint or filler issue ? The fuselage is fibre either side of
foam so I'm not sure how you would see delimitation there.
Thank you for your reply. The Europa XS was completed and got its airworthiness
certificate in 2001, I bought it 2 months ago or so as a third owner. It is
fully operational and has been flying. So far, most of the areas in question
seem like it is a filler/paint problem but I have not opened all of the bubbles
yet since I'm addressing other issues. Still, in a week or so, I will be focusing
100% on all of the cracks and bubbles throughout the aircraft (mostly
cosmetic based on appearance). Hopefully they are all filler/paint issues but
I figured I'd ask about everything so I can further my knowledge and research.
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst kind of thing.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475195#475195
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
I'm attaching a pic of a snapped off pice of what I think is the filler. I do
believe that this is the case in most if not all of the bubbles that are on the
wing.
I want to thank everyone that replied so far. You guys gave me allot to think
about and yes, depending on what I find once I open all the bubbles, I may decide
to take it to a professional.
However, I am still interested in what materials (filler, resin, etc) are suggested
for working with as it pertains to the Europa. I would like to learn about
this stuff and unfortunately the best way I learn is hands on and by making
mistakes. Not on the airplane in this case, but practicing on the "bench".
So if anyone does have experience with a certain resin, filler, etc that he/she
would recommend, please let me know the brand/type/manufactures and I'll start
my research/learning.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475196#475196
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1275_1_805.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
If you join the europa club (via the website www.theeuropaclub.org ) you
can access the build manuals which will give you standard materials and
methods, and also all the technical articles in the Europa Flyer
magazines which will no doubt cover various ways people have chosen to
do the painting and filling and problems found. How to deal with a paint
finish and its problems is a different matter, without someone being
able to tell you what paint was used. Although there was a standard
filler supplied with the Europa kit, choice of paint was left up to the
builder.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-18 16:08, Vlodek9 wrote:
>
> graeme bird wrote:
>
>> You don't say whether you are building or its been completed a while, are you
sure it's not a paint or filler issue ? The fuselage is fibre either side of
foam so I'm not sure how you would see delimitation there.
>
> Thank you for your reply. The Europa XS was completed and got its airworthiness
certificate in 2001, I bought it 2 months ago or so as a third owner. It is
fully operational and has been flying. So far, most of the areas in question
seem like it is a filler/paint problem but I have not opened all of the bubbles
yet since I'm addressing other issues. Still, in a week or so, I will be focusing
100% on all of the cracks and bubbles throughout the aircraft (mostly cosmetic
based on appearance). Hopefully they are all filler/paint issues but I
figured I'd ask about everything so I can further my knowledge and research. Hope
for the best but prepare for the worst kind of thing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475195#475195 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475195#475195
[2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[3] http://forums.matronics.com
[4] http://wiki.matronics.com
[5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rlindsa2(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: San Diego Europas? |
---- Pete wrote:
> I'll be in SD in February on biz and have the last Saturday off for myself, and
was wondering if anyone had the contact info for Robert Lyndsay and his N77EU?
l'd love to swing by and take a look at his ship for inspiration if the
bird is still out there :-)
>
> Cheers and thx,
> Pete
>
Pete, I am here in San Diego CA with N77EU. I was in the process of changing oil
hoses a few years ago when I was hospitalized. I am now permanently grounded
and will be disposing of all along with another XS Mono project next year.
I would be happy to have you visit my hangar in Feb 18. Bob Lindsay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Europa Flyer Issue 39 |
| From: | "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> |
Hello all. I have been looking at the Europa Club new look website and have been
trawling through the old editions of the Flyer magazine. I found on the site
a list containing an index of tech talk items covered in the different issues.
Now i am very interested to see the Tech Talk section in issue 39, page 14.
It is "Rudder Deflection Checking". It hasn't been scanned in on the website
and thought i would put a post on here to ask if any of you have a copy of this
issue could you please look to see if the article is there and if at all possible
could you send me a copy, PDF.
Many thanks Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475203#475203
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
As David Joyce suggested, the factory manuals are available on line, either at
the Europa Club website or the factory website. Chapter 1 contains Europa Technical
College which is an introduction to working with composite materials, identification
of the materials used in the kit and a project to use for experience.
The epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth supplied with the kit have been called
out by Aircraft Spruce part numbers in the thread by Mike Duane. Ive not
purchased Expancel but I imagine the factory has it available and there are probably
similar materials available from West Systems. Chapter 36 has instructions
on finishing, not just painting but sanding, smoothing and contouring.
I strongly suggest you seek out assistance. Like brain surgery, you can do it by
yourself, but some guidance may produce better results, faster and easier!
Im pretty sure you identified yourself a few weeks ago on this forum and you are
located near Phoenix, AZ. I see there are four EAA chapters in the area and
all offer Technical Counselors. I think there is an airplane kit completion
business near you (Phoenix Composites?) that has helped others with Europa kits
and could be a good resource. Bud Yerly, Custom Flight Creations also offers
assistance. There are Europa owners and builders near you too. Contact me
(use the message feature of this forum) if you would like me to ask one of
them to contact you.
Jim Butcher
Europa Club US Rep
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475206#475206
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Flyer Issue 39 |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Frank,
Actually it is in the Factory Newsletter issue 39 (see the Y in the Tech Talk column).
I will scan it and can email it to you.
I'm glad to see you are using the index! Are there any changes that would make
it better?
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475208#475208
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
Im having to replace my throttle cables, as general maintenance has revealed the
the STBD carburettor was failing to advance to fully open. On further investigation
it was found that the cable was tight in the outer sleeve. Ok, fully
removed the same cable was also kinked at the lever in the throttle box.
Has anyone found a good fix or improvements for this?
In the throttle box the friction setup could also do with some improvement too.
When the correct friction is set, the lever does not slide between the friction
washers but turns against the nuts instead. Has anyone found a better solution
for this too?
The manual suggest not shortening the cables but some may have shortened them.
How has the worked out ?
Any UK mods would be helpful, or suggestions to submit a mod. Or maybe a simple
fix.
--------
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475280#475280
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Flyer Issue 39 |
| From: | "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> |
Thanks very much Jim. My email address is spcialeffects(at)aol.com
The index is very good as it gives an overview of the issues covered.
Many thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475289#475289
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 19/11/2017 19:47, Richard Wheelwright a crit :
/
> /Im having to replace my throttle cables, as general maintenance has
> revealed the the STBD carburettor was failing to advance to fully
> open. On further investigation it was found that the cable was tight
> in the outer sleeve. Ok, fully removed the same cable was also kinked
> at the lever in the throttle box. Has anyone found a good fix or
> improvements for this? /
>
Richard and all,
The idea of relying on a spring to ensure throttle opening seems
peculiar to Rotax.
The following fix is flying on hundreds of Rotax powered aircraft
without any problem :
Replace the cables with piano wires so that the throttle somehow becomes
a push-pull control.
This is a definitive cure for kinked cables at the throttle, excessive
cable friction, loss of synch etc.
BTW, thousands of Lycoming or Continental aircraft are flying with a
push-pull throttle control and no spring.
Hope this helps,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <duanefamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: utf-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Resins,_faring_compounds,_etc,_Need_help? |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsberg(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
The areas you mentioned of the fuselage, that have a web-like appearance could
be caused by shrinking paint/filler, or in the worst case, by impact damage to
the sandwich leading to the collapse of the thin foam core.
For this case, there are instructions in the mail list somewhere.
A simple and effective way to look through it is to do just that, with a strong
(cool) light placed on the inside of the fuselage.
Enjoy,
Alex Kaarsberg
> On 18 Nov 2017, at 18:10, Vlodek9 wrote:
>
>
> I'm attaching a pic of a snapped off pice of what I think is the filler. I do
believe that this is the case in most if not all of the bubbles that are on
the wing.
>
> I want to thank everyone that replied so far. You guys gave me allot to think
about and yes, depending on what I find once I open all the bubbles, I may decide
to take it to a professional.
>
> However, I am still interested in what materials (filler, resin, etc) are suggested
for working with as it pertains to the Europa. I would like to learn about
this stuff and unfortunately the best way I learn is hands on and by making
mistakes. Not on the airplane in this case, but practicing on the "bench".
>
> So if anyone does have experience with a certain resin, filler, etc that he/she
would recommend, please let me know the brand/type/manufactures and I'll start
my research/learning.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475196#475196
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1275_1_805.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instuments Misreading |
| From: | "willydewey" <willydewey(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Tony and Pete
I have solved the problem. It was the EIS that had gone out of SYNC
REsetting that has solved the problem
Thanks for your suggestions
Bill Dewey
--------
Give a wise man knowledge and he will be yet wiser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475306#475306
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Mike Duane has given you the Aircraft Spruce part numbers for flox and microspheres
and both have their place. But read the factory manual and understand the
difference of microspheres (Q-Cel) and expancel. They are different materials
and have different uses.
Also be aware that the resin to hardener ratio in the manual is not for Aeropoxy.
In the UK Ampreg was supplied. In the US Aeropoxy was supplied. Aeropoxy
ratio is 100:27 by weight and 3 to 1 by volume.
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475307#475307
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you sir. I was eyeballing this for a while and thought that this may do
the job. With your confirmation, I feel confident to place my order and get started.
Thank you again.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475308#475308
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
OK, quick summery, lets see if I got this right.
The Q-Cel is primarily used as a micro (slurry for filling foam, dry for dings
before lay-up). But, it can be used as a final finish.
Expancel can be considered as an alternative or primarily as a final finish only.
(Per CBM1)
SO per CBM 37-3
I would use the Q-Cel (or the 3M Glass) to fill in any dips/dents on the surface
of the cloth. Then sand it down to a point where I see the fiberglass cloth/weave
and create a smooth even surface all the way across.
Only then I would use thermoplastic polymer microsphe res (NOT GLASS) or aka Expancel
as the final finishing filler. Assuming that I'm not using Q-Cel as the
final filler.
Assuming that my above understanding is correct and I would purchase the 3M Glass
Bubble from Aircraft Spruce, then I also have to purchase the Expancel (or
other thermoplastic polymer microspheres) as the final filler before paint. Based
on the fact that the 3M is glass.
Please confirm if my understanding is correct.
One other thing that Im curious about. Per the attached pic of the pice I snapped
off, I concluded that in this case, the bond between the cloth and filler
has failed. However, based on what I have read so far, I'm a bit taken back by
the thickness of the filler that snapped off. It is way thicker than what is
suggested in the manual, as I read it.
Do you guys agree or is that normal?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475314#475314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
OK, quick summery, lets see if I got this right.
The Q-Cel is primarily used as a micro (slurry for filling foam, dry for dings
before lay-up). But, it can be used as a final finish.
Expancel can be considered as an alternative or primarily as a final finish only.
(Per CBM1)
SO per CBM 37-3
I would use the Q-Cel (or the 3M Glass) to fill in any dips/dents on the surface
of the cloth. Then sand it down to a point where I see the fiberglass cloth/weave
and create a smooth even surface all the way across.
Only then I would use thermoplastic polymer microsphe res (NOT GLASS) or aka Expancel
as the final finishing filler. Assuming that I'm not using Q-Cel as the
final filler.
Assuming that my above understanding is correct and I would purchase the 3M Glass
Bubble from Aircraft Spruce, then I also have to purchase the Expancel (or
other thermoplastic polymer microspheres) as the final filler before paint. Based
on the fact that the 3M is glass.
Please confirm if my understanding is correct.
One other thing that Im curious about. Per the attached pic of the pice I snapped
off, I concluded that in this case, the bond between the cloth and filler
has failed. However, based on what I have read so far, I'm a bit taken back by
the thickness of the filler that snapped off. It is way thicker than what is
suggested in the manual, as I read it.
Do you guys agree or is that normal?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475313#475313
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
| From: | "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz> |
Hi Richard
Attached are pictures of my throttle box.
I found the original design less than satisfactory and made the following changes:
a) Bolt is clamped to box with a large washer either side of the box, a spacer
tube and a nut with Loctite to stop rotation.
b) I made two aluminium plates, shaped to fit the box. These stop any rotation
and provide a good flat surface for the nylon washers - 2 each side of the lever.
Have not tested in anger yet by it has a really smooth action and the friction
is easily adjusted to counter the carb spring by tightening the stiff nut.
More importantly, despite many, many operations of the lever back and forwards,
the friction never changes.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475335#475335
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_3_190.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_2_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_888.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
You might want to impregnate the exposed elements of the throttle cables with resin.
This stiffens them and reduces the chances of buckling in compression when
the throttle is opened more quickly than the carb springs can pull.
Duncan Mcf.
----Original Message----
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Date: 20/11/2017 21:46
Subj: Europa-List: Re: Throttle cables
Hi Richard
Attached are pictures of my throttle box.
I found the original design less than satisfactory and made the following changes:
a) Bolt is clamped to box with a large washer either side of the box, a spacer
tube and a nut with Loctite to stop rotation.
b) I made two aluminium plates, shaped to fit the box. These stop any rotation
and provide a good flat surface for the nylon washers - 2 each side of the lever.
Have not tested in anger yet by it has a really smooth action and the friction
is easily adjusted to counter the carb spring by tightening the stiff nut.
More importantly, despite many, many operations of the lever back and forwards,
the friction never changes.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475335#475335
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_3_190.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_2_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/throttle_box_888.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Your summary of CBM1 is correct.
While CBM page 1-9 indicates you can use Q-Cel for final finishing, it is not preferred.
It is typically used on foam, prior to layup of fiberglass cloth. The
second sentence of the last paragraph on page 37-3 says to use Expancel. Expancel
is lighter, more flexible and easier to sand; which is why it is better.
You should not need to buy any glass microspheres.
Expancel should be mixed very dry to keep it light. To be consistent, we used the
same amount of Expancel to resin in every batch. We used a 10:1 ratio by volume.
This is important if you have to go back and refill if the batches are
not consistent, it is difficult to sand evenly as some sections are harder than
others (due to more or less epoxy in the mix) so you can get bumps and dips.
It is possible that the filler delaminated because it did not adhere properly to
the fiberglass. To prevent that, we used a clean dry cloth (old sock) to rub
a very small amount of resin on the fiberglass just before spreading the Expancel.
Yes, the photo you attached shows pretty thick filler. For some reason we did
not receive the original post with photos of the damaged areas so we dont know
where that came from. Filler used to blend two areas where one is proud of the
other can be somewhat thick, so areas where fairings are glued to the wing
near the wing root can have more buildup than other areas. Normally it should
not be as thick as the piece in your photo.
Since Expancel may be hard to find in the US, some people have used West System
407 / 410 products or Poly Fiber Superfil. We have not used either, maybe others
can comment.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475351#475351
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
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Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
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or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> |
I have just finished my build and am thinking about what tools and what spares
to carry when I finally do start spreading my wings? There was a thread on here
some time ago which I have a print out of and have come across an article in
an old flyer magazine but thought Id ask the question myself.............so what
do you carry?
Frank, classic kit #165, G-STUE, 3730 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475432#475432
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Hi Frank,
I carry with me an inner tube for the main tire (Monowheel), spare outrigger arm,
battery charger, and a multi craft tool. Along with the glass fuel sampler,
small torch, paper maps, required documents, fuel cards, spare headphone batteries,
first aid, ELT, window cleaner, oil rag and window cleaning rag. Not to
get mixed up!
Lastly, for me, a spare pair of spectacles.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mob +64 210640221
> On 22/11/2017, at 8:17 AM, spcialeffects wrote:
>
>
> I have just finished my build and am thinking about what tools and what spares
to carry when I finally do start spreading my wings? There was a thread on here
some time ago which I have a print out of and have come across an article
in an old flyer magazine but thought Id ask the question myself.............so
what do you carry?
>
> Frank, classic kit #165, G-STUE, 3730 hours
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475432#475432
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
We installed solid wire throttle cables during our initial build and they have
performed perfectly for over 12 years, 900 hours. We copied Erich Trombleys install.
Unfortunately we cant find our original notes or photos. Sorry!
We initially tried to replace the stranded core of the supplied cables with piano
wire. The piano wire we purchased came tightly rolled about 6 inches in diameter.
We were unable to get the wire straight enough to work properly in the
sheath.
We ultimately purchased Bowden cable from Aircraft Spruce (p/n 05-15500). To connect
to the throttle arm in the aircraft, we used small round pulleys, AN111-3
cable bushings and wrapped the wire around them and secured them with clamps,
we think similar to cable end fitting (ACS p/n 15-06291 or 05-16100). We used
adjusters at the throttle box as well as at the carbs, (Lockwood BR03K).
We recall drilling out the ID of the adjusters to accept the diameter of the sheath.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475438#475438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Tool kit and spares kit |
Frank,
Attached are a couple of checklists I made in 2000 when I got back into ser
ious flying. I updated them for the Europa and the new cell phone/iPad tec
hnology.
I put in my aircraft spares that I carry if I=92m going to Oshkosh or somew
here where other pilots are gathering so if someone has a problem, I=92ve g
enerally got the tool. On short over night jaunts to take a client home ne
arby, I don=92t carry all that stuff (or even flight plan that much).
On my cell I keep a complete list of the manuals for the aircraft engine, s
ome avionics, wheel parts, and the like. It is all on the cloud now a days
. I just like having a file.
The files have everything from medication, prep for cross country, maintena
nce manual, installation manuals (because I often forget how to set the dar
n fuel totalizer), troubleshooting stuff I=92ve done and the like which are
specific to my needs and my particular aircraft. They are just .pdf files
but in a pinch if you need to know what size seal is leaking on the 914 fu
el pressure regulator, you=92ve got it.
In the military we had what was known as the In-Flight Guide and as a new L
ieutenant that was always going cross country without a hitch, so the boss
had me make up a checklist for the students and IPs and it paid off. I gue
ss I just never stopped making checklists. Most of my clients are quite ex
perienced and dedicated pilots so I just never published them outside the s
hop as a serious pilot will plan his flight and fly the plan without incide
nt. New pilots or really rusty pilots, may find these checklists handy.
It seems if you prepare for your flight and carry spares you never have a p
roblem nor need all that prep.
Fly Safe,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of spcialeffects
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:17:12 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Tool kit and spares kit
I have just finished my build and am thinking about what tools and what spa
res to carry when I finally do start spreading my wings? There was a thread
on here some time ago which I have a print out of and have come across an
article in an old flyer magazine but thought I=99d ask the question m
yself.............so what do you carry?
Frank, classic kit #165, G-STUE, 3730 hours
Read this topic online here:
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
atronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D475432%23475432&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerl
y%40msn.com%7C21becb630a284387035b08d531154869%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636468889831948417&sdata=R%2BlkJk4HUzvNs4zty6Nom27n%2FLE
VV1d2HNHeEFtkBDo%3D&reserved=0
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%4
0msn.com%7C21becb630a284387035b08d531154869%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C636468889831948417&sdata=BJw0FQ%2BqWoeZvwnRBiaJux9dE0crdFJY
fwzUb9VkUxE%3D&reserved=0
F%2Fforums.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C21becb630a28
4387035b08d531154869%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636468889
831948417&sdata=yrk%2Bg7wzys7ZRdzq8thNxazXA3YmmaolU6tlM%2BShhfA%3D&reserv
ed=0
F%2Fwiki.matronics.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C21becb630a2843
87035b08d531154869%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63646888983
1948417&sdata=dYQKiFE5P5iON7sfhgemNuvN7F4hizOcW611JUOBG44%3D&reserved=0
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=02%7C01%7Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7C
21becb630a284387035b08d531154869%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C636468889831948417&sdata=keFdcV7Bs%2BLbe7mXmC1wbYxQckUCFNy5qUHgVTSYowQ
%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
Frank, If you are travelling to anywhere remote and it is a mono, then
apart from a spare inner tube, you should give some thought as to how
you might jack up the plane to get the wheel off. There is an account in
the Europa Flyer about a year ago of Tim Houlihan having to abandon his
plane on one of the Arran Islands in W Ireland. We rescued him a week or
so later having constructed a triangular pad with two prongs which
locates on the U/C arm to give a hard horizontal surface that you can
put any sort of car jack under. Trikes are no problem - you can simply
lift the wing on the puncture side and put any sort of trestle or prop
under it to hold it up.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-21 19:17, spcialeffects wrote:
>
> I have just finished my build and am thinking about what tools and what spares
to carry when I finally do start spreading my wings? There was a thread on here
some time ago which I have a print out of and have come across an article
in an old flyer magazine but thought IEUR(tm)d ask the question myself.............so
what do you carry?
>
> Frank, classic kit #165, G-STUE, 3730 hours
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475432#475432 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475432#475432
[2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[3] http://forums.matronics.com
[4] http://wiki.matronics.com
[5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
h&jeuropa wrote:
>
> .......some people have used West System 407 / 410 products or Poly Fiber Superfil.
We have not used either, maybe others can comment.
>
> Jim & Heather
I have used Super-Fil with great success.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php?clickkey=8866
It's prohibitively expensive - but it bonds well, blocks down predictably, fairs
out seamlessly and is exceptionally light.
Pre-warming the application tools (palette knife, straight edge etc.) will ensure
that the filler adheres to the substrate and doesn't "curl up" behind.
Would recommend.
Nigel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475444#475444
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
| From: | "Vlodek9" <rv9a2000(at)gmail.com> |
Again, thank you all for the detailed advice on everything. Its good to know that
there are other options in regards to the final filer. Please keep the suggestions
coming.
In the mean time, I'm doing research on Expancel. One thing that I can not find,
or missed in the manual is a more detailed decryption to Expancel, a model number
it you will.
Per this web site:
https://expancel.akzonobel.com/lightweight-fillers/expancel-de/
under "lightweight fillers" there are two types of Expancel DE and WE (dry and
wet). Under each one of those are even more variations.
Example:
Expancel DE - 551 DE 40 d42, 461 DE 20 d70, 461 DET 40 d25, etc.
Point is, I read the description for both and for the most part understand the
difference. However, assuming this company would be willing to sell me some,
I'm not confident as to which version (model number) would be best for this application.
Any thoughts?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475446#475446
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Resins, faring compounds, etc, Need help |
I=99ll second Nigel=99s endorsement of
Super-Oilandrecommend that use of it be followed w/
Poly Fiber=99s =9CSmooth Prime=9Dalways a
good idea to use sequential products from the same manufacturer to
ensure compatibilityf.
> On Nov 22, 2017, at 2:19 AM, Nigel Graham
<nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have used Super-Fil with great success.
>
>
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php?clickkey=8866
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php?clickkey=886
6>
>
> It's prohibitively expensive - but it bonds well, blocks down
predictably, fairs out seamlessly and is exceptionally light.
> Pre-warming the application tools (palette knife, straight edge etc.)
will ensure that the filler adheres to the substrate and doesn't "curl
up" behind.
> Would recommend.
>
> Nigel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> |
Hi David. Yes I have built a mono and yes I have come across the article in the
flyer magazine explaining how to construct the simple wooden adapter which I
will make in a week or two.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475452#475452
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement |
| From: | "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I had two HD lights in the cowl of my Jabiru powered Europa, but they turned out
to be useless. I'd like to hear or see what others have done for a landing
light and placement.
I recently installed a 40amp alternator and electrical power is no problem now
that I got rid of the so called 15 amp Jabiru alternator.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475466#475466
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement |
| From: | "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Here a picture of the ole landing light.
Rick Stockton
N120EJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475468#475468
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_light_crop_938.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com> |
Here's what i did in an hour and a half. Essential piece off kit I agree
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475475#475475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5311_187.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hazel Jackson <hj(at)motorcycleresults.com> |
| Subject: | Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please...
My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too
distant future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners
that we should go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very
much like to know the pros and cons of both please, and in which
circumstances each shines - from real Europa owners!
Huge thanks
Hazel
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Christine Duane <DuaneFamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Both fly just wonderful. It=99s how they handle on the ground that set
s them apart. Tricycle gear is very tame while the mono =9Cmust=9D
be flown every second on the ground or you can find yourself in trouble.
But those are not the only two options. There are quite a few Europa=99
s with conventional gear.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 23, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Hazel Jackson wrot
e:
>
> Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please...
>
> My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too dist
ant future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners that w
e should go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very much like t
o know the pros and cons of both please, and in which circumstances each shi
nes - from real Europa owners!
>
> Huge thanks
>
> Hazel
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
| From: | david park <dpark748(at)me.com> |
Dave Park
Because it looks beautiful.
Dave G-LDVO
> On 23 Nov 2017, at 21:39, Hazel Jackson wrote:
>
> Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please...
>
> My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too dist
ant future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners that w
e should go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very much like t
o know the pros and cons of both please, and in which circumstances each shi
nes - from real Europa owners!
>
> Huge thanks
>
> Hazel
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelly <europajimkelly(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Hello Hazel,
The Europa is a fantastic aircraft with a great
following. There's also a third undercarriage consideration the
conventional taildragger.
Best wishes
Jim Kelly G-BWEG
On 23 Nov 2017 9:44 p.m., "Hazel Jackson" wrote:
> Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please...
>
> My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too
> distant future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners
> that we should go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very
> much like to know the pros and cons of both please, and in which
> circumstances each shines - from real Europa owners!
>
> Huge thanks
>
> Hazel
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#m_6081554351668498044_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
| From: | "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
Hi Hazel,
My Europa was built by me as a mono and first flew 20 years ago, before the tri-gear
became an option. About 4 years ago I converted it to the tricycle configuration,
after two VERY experienced friends who I allow to share it ground-looped
while landing. Both have been instructors and both have adequate tail-dragger
experience. I wanted to eliminate the worry about when it might be damaged
again, hence the conversion.
My own flying experience stretches back over 50 years, including 10 years as a
military pilot and thereafter 34 years flying commercially. I have about 650 hours
flying the Europa as a mono and 274 hours flying the military North American
AT6 (Harvard) WW2 trainer, which is a tail-wheel type. The Europa is more
difficult on landing than the AT6, due to the absence of differential brakes to
assist in keeping it straight.
I have greatly enjoyed flying this superbly designed aircraft in both undercarriage
configurations and have no doubt that you'll love it too. Even so, unless
you have considerable tail-wheel experience and/or get lots of training before
being let loose alone on the Europa mono, I'd be inclined towards acquiring
a tri-gear version (with 100+hp to overcome increased rolling resistance on soft
surfaces).
No doubt there will be disagreement with this statement, but "it isn't if, but
when" you'll have a mishap while landing a mono. I was just lucky not to be caught
out similarly to my two friends.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475487#475487
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
Hello,
Sorry for the delayed response, however, it seems I haven=99t been
receiving the Europa List Digest. Thought I would check the Matronics
site and sure enough I missed the last week or so of email traffic.
Anyway, as Jim & Heather noted in their post I used a Bowden cable from
Aircraft Spruce (p/n 05-15500) and wrapped it around a small round cable
bushing, AN111-3, forming a =9C?=9D This way the cable end
s up on the centerline on the bushing. I can=99t recall if I Red
ux it or soldered the cable to the busing. Has worked without issue for
the last 15 years.
Also, using a Bowden cable is in my opinion superior to the Rotax cable.
With the latter you must rely on the springs to advance the cable as y
ou can=99t effectively push a rope. There has been at least one i
ncident in which the cable kinked when the throttle was advanced too qui
ckly. This can=99t happen with a Bowden cable as it is designed fo
r push-pull applications.
Good luck,
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Europa Classic 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say GoodBye To Sally Fields
iflperfecttouch.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a1798beb75ba18be1ab5st03vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Hazel, The simple answer to that question for someone with relatively
little flying experience is that you would do well to go for the
trigear. However, there are a lot of mono pilots out there, including
myself who would not give up their mono at any price. It was of course
the only configuration for quite a while when the plane was first on the
market and all sorts of pilots managed to get on top of it, albeit with
quite a percentage of incidents.
Briefly the advantages of the mono are: it is a bit faster and more
economical; it is better at field landings- it was designed to land in
unprepared farmers fields (I have done upwards of a dozen such landings
without damage) whereas a trike is very likely to bust its nose wheel
leg & prop; it is quite a bit cheaper on the UK market- and the
difference might well pay for at least one ground loop & bust prop!
My advice would be to get a ride in both and ask the owner to let you
taxi each when you will get an insight into the challenges of ground
control of the mono, then make a decision. You could put out a plea on
this network for someone in your neck of the woods to fly you. If you
haven't made your decision before the next Europa Club AGM or the Rally
I am sure we/I can arrange something.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-11-23 21:39, Hazel Jackson wrote:
> Hi Guys - I'm rather hoping that you can help us with this please...
>
> My husband and I are looking to hopefully buy a Europa in the not too distant
future and we have received a lot of advice from non-Europa owners that we should
go for a Tri-gear rather than a Mono wheel. I would very much like to know
the pros and cons of both please, and in which circumstances each shines - from
real Europa owners!
>
> Huge thanks
>
> Hazel
>
> [1]
> Virus-free. www.avg.com [1]
Links:
------
[1]
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
| From: | "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de> |
The Europa is the right decision anyway :-)
When I decided to buy a Europa I made a ride in the Monowheel with Andy Draper.
Andy as a very skilled pilot had no problems in handling it of course, but I
became Aware, that it would be too much of a challenge for me as an average Pilot,
especially in windy conditions. So I went for a XS Trigear with a Rotax 914
and never regretted this decision. I want peace of mind and don't need the
thrill of the Mono. The Trigear is very easy to land and on the ground in general
when one gets used to the steering with the differentiol brake.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475499#475499
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some
magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you?
Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media
source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do...
:-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
| From: | "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net> |
One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface that you
will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. Where the trouble starts
is on hard surface runways. Concrete, Asphalt and the number of plies the tire
has. When the Europa first arrived on the shores of the U.S. I believe they
were using two ply tires. From what I have learned the fiction between the
runway surface and the tire that causes a twisting of the tire and if a wing
tips as in dropped during the landing, think outrigger, and touches it unloads
the tire and causes the aircraft to weathervane into the wind.
On glass field it will not twist the tire as much as the glass will allow the tire
to move more freely as there is less fiction.
I believe most of the mono wheel pilots have installed tires with more plies and
you have heard a lot less about ground loops.
If you have a number of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good training
from a mono pilot you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can and will
bite you if you don't fly it to parking. One of the best ways to practice is
in a glider. They all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly.
In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They look so
nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane.
If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface!
Rick Stockton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475582#475582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Good discussion on tri vs. mono. I couldn=92t agree more with Roland and D
avid Joyce.
Full disclosure: I am the US Europa Dealer and an owner operator/builder.
Whether you choose a mono or trigear, the Europa is still the finest flying
sport aircraft after all these years. It is delightful to fly, yet provid
es excellent cruise performance with toughness to absorb shocks and bumps a
nd shake it off and is very repairable for builders who are unfortunate eno
ugh to have a minor mishap.
It is a love hate relationship between the mono and trigear. The trigear p
enalty of extra drag and weight with excellent ground handling (and no retr
act test or specialized equipment needed for maintenance of the wheel) vs a
retractable mono that is lighter, has the potential for less drag, larger
baggage capacity, looks cool, but has no similarity with a typical conventi
onal gear unless the conventional gear is placed 7 inches apart. The mono
is easy to land for me, even on asphalt, as long as I am sharp, on my game,
proficient and have drug the strange field so I know if there are hidden s
wirly wind conditions near the touchdown point if cross winds are present.
Mono:
I have sat through a few oops landings, but believe it or not, also runway
departures on takeoff. Old habits die hard, this is not a typical tail dra
gger. My bad experiences was not with bad or non current pilots, just a mo
mentary lapse of applying the proper procedures at the right moment. On ta
keoff, keep the stick back hard until 35Kts, small precise rudder inputs, a
nd do not allow the airplane velocity vector to go outside that 7 inch whee
l footprint. On landing, the same is true. The aircraft must have its vel
ocity vector and alignment dead on the runway centerline, wings level, at t
he precise moment of touchdown for a smooth roll on landing. It gets sport
y if alignment is not precise or the stick is relaxed with or without power
below flying speed. It is getting tougher for new pilot/builders to get i
nsurance due to ground loop/prop strike potential. Second hand owners in t
he US with the mono do not fair well. In my opinion, it is their failure t
o get a proper checkout and loose their bad habits. Maintenance wise, the
wheel well is the black hole of Calcutta. It is close to the ground (layin
g on the cold ground), and extra equipment is needed for tire removal, retr
act tests and lifting equipment.
Trigear:
You must have a speed kit or performance is dismal. That means more weight
and time. Baggage bay area is lost, the cowl is more difficult to get off
with a three blade prop around that nose leg, it has hand brakes which wor
k well but for some are different, nose gear shimmy is a problem if set ver
y light, and precise steering more difficult if set tight. Cross wind or s
trange field landings with pesky wind gusts are a piece of cake. Mile long
taxi backs with a strong crosswind will eat brakes and may overheat them.
Differential brake steering means there are two more brake pads to wear ou
t and an extra brake cylinder to maintain. Field blown tire drills are rar
e. Brake failure is more likely. Brake failure, means no ground steering.
If a tire failure does occur, the FBO has a trolley normally, and one onl
y has to put his back under the spar and lightly push up and raise the whee
l for the trolley or tire change. Piece of cake. With a tow bar, it is ea
sy to haul and maneuver for a operator/ mechanic. There is good clearance
for underside maintenance which allows working on a comfortable creeper.
I like both types of gear. But an owner operator must look at all sides of
the issue for his long term ownership. You are doing the right thing by a
sking the questions now. Go fly both and if the test fly plane is rigged a
nd properly balanced, with stall strips you are in for a treat.
I=92ve done some other writings on maintenance and techniques and they are
either on my website, or emails are available in the matronics archives or
Europa Club website with many other excellent tech articles. I=92ve attach
ed my personal notes on flying the mono in .PDF format. The trigear never
needed any landing or flight articles but maintenance techniques are availa
ble.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Europa trigear, 914, Airmaster
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
US Europa Dealer
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Roland
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 6:02:24 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear
The Europa is the right decision anyway :-)
When I decided to buy a Europa I made a ride in the Monowheel with Andy Dra
per. Andy as a very skilled pilot had no problems in handling it of course,
but I became Aware, that it would be too much of a challenge for me as an
average Pilot, especially in windy conditions. So I went for a XS Trigear w
ith a Rotax 914 and never regretted this decision. I want peace of mind and
don't need the thrill of the Mono. The Trigear is very easy to land and on
the ground in general when one gets used to the steering with the differen
tiol brake.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
| From: | Tim <houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
While your comments about the tyre are interesting and historically
accurate I doubt if any Mono is still using the original golf buggy
tyre. What you say about grass field strips is good but once you are up
to speed on grass moving to hard runways is not a problem.
I converted to a mono from PA28's with a instructor familiar with
Europa's it took about seven hours all on hard runways. The trick as
mentioned by Bud and others is to keep it absolutely straight and not
allow it to deviate one bit from the straight path, I believe that also
applies to all tailwheel aircraft from four engined transports to single
seat hotrods.
In my mind Trigears are great but Mono's are tremendous.
Just my views based on 15 years with a mono and now three months with a
trigear.
Tim Houlihan
On 24/11/2017 15:41, AirEupora wrote:
>
> One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface that
you will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. WIf you have a number
of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good training from a mono pilot
you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can and will bite you if you don't
fly it to parking. One of the best ways to practice is in a glider. They
all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly.
>
> In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They look
so nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane.
>
> If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface!
>
> Rick Stockton
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475582#475582
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement |
I came up with one idea, look up 5 CREE LED bike headlight on ebay.
The units I got will run on voltage from 8 - 15 volts, one unit is about the
same as my car headlight, they are about 2 inches across and 2.5 inches
deep.
Well made from aluminium with a glass lense and oring seals. The switch is
on the back of the case so that will have to be moved for obvious reasons
Will post a picture later today
Regards
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirEupora
Sent: Friday, 24 November 2017 2:31 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement
I had two HD lights in the cowl of my Jabiru powered Europa, but they turned
out to be useless. I'd like to hear or see what others have done for a
landing light and placement.
I recently installed a 40amp alternator and electrical power is no problem
now that I got rid of the so called 15 amp Jabiru alternator.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475466#475466
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
Hi Richard,
I am not sure what you mean by =9Cwhat ends did you secure to the
outer cable? I have tried to fix the 6mm ends to a scrap cable and find
it impossible to get them to screw on securely.=9D Which end are
you referring to, the throttle box or the carb end? Are you not able to
retain the Europa supplied cable sheath and just run the Bowden cable t
hrough it?
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines in Seconds
Fit Mom Daily
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a18c87d2c8d5487c76aast03duc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Craig and Rick,
The Jab cowl has quite a slope, so I would prefer to cut in a light on the
pilots side of the cowl. A lot of work.
I made an exterior hanging light for 12AY and sold it to John Kershner. Ph
oto Attached in the pdf. It was just a Kuntzleman which was adequate for a
painted runway with lights. Good for taxi. Lights up the runway paint ab
out 3-500 feet out. I have never made another for the Kuntzleman as I just
didn=92t like it as much as others.
Look at your off road guys. I made a swap of the Walmart special H4s on Ga
ry Leinberger=92s to the Ridgid industries SR-Q2 with a bright dim switch.
Either of these lights above will not light up as well as our 100,000 cand
le airliner landing lights but you won=92t feel like Helen Keller coming in
to land either. If you have the room, the Aeroled and Whelen standard Par
light replacements are better than the smaller motorcycle types, but at le
ast twice the cost and amps. I=92ve never installed an HID but they really
reach out there, but in my opinion too much weight and heat. More amps to
o.
I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use the h
igh output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=92t make noise either
. Go to youtube and take a look at Ridgid Industries Hi/LO SRQ2 Drive Beam
Pattern Snake Racing test video.
I set these small LEDs all up out back of the shop, and the Spot Cree LEDs
go out about 800 feet pretty well and the driving is just fine at about 500
feet and wide enough to drive down the road with just one. There are no r
eflectors out behind the shop, so there is no chance these off road lights
would be OK on a grass runway on a pitch black night in my opinion, but fin
e for a painted runway. The Aerosun was not much different than the SRQ2 d
riving light, just a little harder to mount and the lens is not as tough.
I had to do a paper for clients to explain to me and the guys what the heck
a lumen, candle, luminance, lux and candlepower was as comparisons are a s
on of a gun without consistent standards. I=92ve attached that paper I mad
e up from internet articles above also, as I know you do your research. He
ll of a thing=85how bright is bright. Who knows until you see it. I wish
I had unlimited resources to test these lights out on a runway. Look at Av
Webs Youtube videos and get some ideas on your own as well as the off road
and motorcycle guys videos.
Good luck. If you are going to repaint the cowl anyway, cutting in a reces
sed light is reasonable. Making an external pod is not any easier, but if t
he plane is nicely painted, no repair work will be necessary, just the wiri
ng. The choices we make eh?
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of AirEupora
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 10:41:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear
One of the things that has not been talked about is the landing surface tha
t you will be using. The mono does good on glass fields. Where the troubl
e starts is on hard surface runways. Concrete, Asphalt and the number of p
lies the tire has. When the Europa first arrived on the shores of the U.S.
I believe they were using two ply tires. From what I have learned the fic
tion between the runway surface and the tire that causes a twisting of the
tire and if a wing tips as in dropped during the landing, think outrigger,
and touches it unloads the tire and causes the aircraft to weathervane into
the wind.
On glass field it will not twist the tire as much as the glass will allow t
he tire to move more freely as there is less fiction.
I believe most of the mono wheel pilots have installed tires with more plie
s and you have heard a lot less about ground loops.
If you have a number of hours in a tail wheel aircraft and you get good tra
ining from a mono pilot you should be OK, but any tail wheel aircraft can a
nd will bite you if you don't fly it to parking. One of the best ways to p
ractice is in a glider. They all have a mono wheel and they are fun to fly
.
In many ways I wish I had biuilt a mono wheel, as they are faster. They lo
ok so nice when they fly by. With a 914 they are an outstanding airplane.
If you live it the U.S. 97% of all your landings will be on a hard surface!
Rick Stockton
Read this topic online here:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
I have to echo Tim=99s experience. I transitioned into the Europa
Mono with a couple of hundred hours of Cessna 152 and 172 time and zero
tailwheel time. I did my tailwheel transition in the Mono and got sign
ed off after 10 hours. I had two really good instructions, Bob Lindsay,
test pilot extraordinaire, and another fellow that Bob provided transit
ion training to. As Bob was only available for a couple of days he work
ed with my local instructor/friend and got him up to speed after a coupl
e of hours. I ended up with half my time with each. I also did a bit o
f aggressive taxiing with Kim Prout prior to the first flight which real
ly helped as I got to explore the limits of ground handling.
The only tailwheel time I have is in my Mono; 750 hours over almost 15 y
ears of flying. With the exception of a handful of landings on turf, I
operate exclusively off of hard surfaces. Truth be told I am more nervo
us on turf, worried mostly about uneven surfaces. I guess for me, it re
ally comes down to what I have more experience with. As for cross wind
landings I can=99t say that it is really any different in the Mono
than the Cessna=99s I learned in. I crab into the wind vs. the w
ing low technique. I have landed with 15+ mph direct cross wind without
issue. Anything less than 90 degree provides for a slower ground speed
and less roll out which is a plus. I do, however, try to make sure the
plane is tracking straight at touchdown, although, I haven=99t al
ways been successful. The key for me, is quick jabs of the rudder pedal
s to keep it straight...dancing feet. If you apply constant rudder unti
l the plane changes direction it=99s too late, your off to the rac
es.
I love my Mono. The only downside is the availability of hull insurance
at what I consider a reasonable price. I have a 914 in my Mono and fly
in the high teens and usually see a true airspeed of 165-171 kts depend
ing on atmospheric conditions, burning 5.3 gal/hrs. For cross country f
lying that=99s hard to beat. And lastly, she is a head turner. O
h, and did I mention, I love my Mono.
My two cents.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
I Felt Like A Snake That Had Swallowed A Watermelon
Activated You
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a18e6f0bf25d66ef4b65st01vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
| From: | "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
Erich
Currently experimenting with improvement options. I was looking at how different
builder have shortened the outer sheath. Removing the 6mm cable adjuster
from the carb end of the outlet sheath (now scrap cable) I found it impossible
to put the 6mm ajuster back on to outer sheath without damaging it. I agree
with you about putting the Bowden solid piano wire through the Europa suplyed
outer sheath. This may be the way to go to improve operation of the throttle
linkage.
--------
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475602#475602
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
> On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
> I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use
the high output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=99t
make noise either.
Bud,
Given the dimensions of the housing, have you ever considered mounting
them within the leading edge of the wing along w/ a polycarbonate or
plexiglass cover conforming to the shape of the airfoil?
F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hazel Jackson <hj(at)motorcycleresults.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
Hi Guys
I have been completely overwhelmed by the effort you have made to help us
with our decision! The information is truly invaluable and it is clear we
will be joining a very special group of aviators.
A huge thank you on behalf of myself and my husband to you all.
Hazel
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut
m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On 25 November 2017 at 20:41, Fred Klein wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
> I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use the
> high output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=99t make noi
se either.
>
>
> Bud,
>
> Given the dimensions of the housing, have you ever considered mounting
> them within the leading edge of the wing along w/ a polycarbonate or
> plexiglass cover conforming to the shape of the airfoil?
>
> F.
>
>
--
Hazel Jackson
Motorcycle Racer Magazine
484 Didsbury Road Stockport
Cheshire UK SK4 3BS
0161 443 1000 / 07831 577 654
www.motorcycleracer.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Christine Duane <DuaneFamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear |
I may have missed it, but where are you guys located? USA, UK, someplace els
e in the world?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 25, 2017, at 12:56 PM, Hazel Jackson wro
te:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> I have been completely overwhelmed by the effort you have made to help us w
ith our decision! The information is truly invaluable and it is clear we wil
l be joining a very special group of aviators.
>
> A huge thank you on behalf of myself and my husband to you all.
>
> Hazel
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>
>> On 25 November 2017 at 20:41, Fred Klein wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>
>>> I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use th
e high output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=99t make nois
e either.
>>
>> Bud,
>>
>> Given the dimensions of the housing, have you ever considered mounting th
em within the leading edge of the wing along w/ a polycarbonate or plexiglas
s cover conforming to the shape of the airfoil?
>>
>> F.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Hazel Jackson
> Motorcycle Racer Magazine
> 484 Didsbury Road Stockport
> Cheshire UK SK4 3BS
> 0161 443 1000 / 07831 577 654
> www.motorcycleracer.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
Hi Richard,
Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not p
urchase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used
bicycle brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was
slightly smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the di
fference, and then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used
a bicycle cable adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Le
t me know if you have any other questions.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
risingstarnewspaper.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a1a22473a30e22397255st04duc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Burridge <adrianburridge(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
Awesome, thanks!
On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:18 PM Erich Trombley
wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not
> purchase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used
> bicycle brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was
> slightly smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the
> difference, and then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used a
> bicycle cable adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Let me
> know if you have any other questions.
>
> Erich Trombley
> N28ET
> Classic Mono 914
> ____________________________________________________________
> We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
> risingstarnewspaper.com
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5a1a22473a30e22397255st04duc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
Guys,
I have run the throttle cables for over 10 years without trouble. I don=92
t normally cut them and run them long and loopy to the carbs. This is hard
to do in a mono going through the firewall. Much easier in the Trigear as
there is more room.
Of course there are techniques as Eric said: To shorten a cable you must h
ave a working knowledge of how to cap and swag cables, I lead the cable bef
ore cutting them and also at the tightening point on the carb throttle leve
r if the cable has been damaged by the customer.
Find a good bike shop and they can show you how to end cap the cables right
. Leading the cable tips is not normally done here in the US but the Germa
ns in Spangdahlem showed me how. I have even used 60/40 solder but lead is
better in my opinion. Lead penetrates the cable and keeps the strands fro
m unravelling. It is not easy to do.
Bike shops have 4 and 5 mm swag ends normally, such as the Zimo 50pcs Jagwi
re Bike 5mm Brake Cable Housing Ferrule End Caps. The Europa cables are no
t quite the same size, so I use a vice to make a press using a tapered punc
h to flare or widen the mouth then press in the butt end of numbered drill
bits used as a die to open up the 5mm swag ends to properly open up the end
cap to slide on the cables. Typically 5.3 to 5.5mm will slip fit nicely o
n the 914 TCU cable and throttle cables. For the threaded throttle ends, b
uy new ones from Rotax, Green Sky Adventures or Spruce and avoid the rush.
These I think are normally 6 mm. I have never scrimped on tools, so I bou
ght good crimpers and they don=92t crush the end of the threaded end, or sa
fety wire them on works too...
Most problems in my experience with customer built throttle boxes is the th
rottle box cable sheaths are poorly aligned where they attach to the fiberg
lass box. This leads to binding and kinking in the throttle box if the cab
le has a slight kink in it. It makes a big difference, even if the angle i
s very slightly off or the cable sheaths are too low and if you kinked the
cable a bit. Don=92t overly tie the cable ends up with zip ties, it just m
akes for a bind many times.
The solid cable replacement takes care of that, I just never needed them as
I rebuild the throttle and bench check the cables for proper operation bef
ore install. The choke cable is another problem for another day.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Erich Trombley
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 9:08:57 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle cables
Hi Richard,
Attached is a photo of the cable attachment at the carb. As I did not purc
hase the Europa firewall forward kit, I made up my own bits. I used bicycl
e brake parts for the cable sheath cut to length. As the O.D was slightly
smaller, I used heat shrink tubing on the end to make up the difference, an
d then safety wired it in place. At the throttle box I used a bicycle cable
adjuster and just attached it with a nut to the box. Let me know if you h
ave any other questions.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
We Say Goodbye To Meryl Streep
risingstarnewspaper.com
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fthirdpar
tyoffers.juno.com%2FTGL3131%2F5a1a22473a30e22397255st04duc&data=02%7C01%7
Cbudyerly%40msn.com%7Ce0d0c41bb9ba4c39791b08d53474ab00%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cables |
| From: | "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> |
Bud/Erich
Thank you for the info. and pictures with help. I will explore the options
that have been suggested from all.
--------
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475700#475700
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear/Landing Light |
Nope Fred.
I prefer not to go through the wing leading edge. If we had detachable win
g tips, I would, but it would be too hard to walk clients through fabricati
ng a leading edge lexan enclosure. I know how, but I just don=92t want to
go through that drill.
Regards,
Bud
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Fred Klein
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 3:41:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mono wheel versus Tri-gear
On Nov 24, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bud Yerly > wrote:
I personally like the Rigid SR-Q2 as they are fairly inexpensive, use the h
igh output Cree LEDs and are easy to mount. They don=92t make noise either
.
Bud,
Given the dimensions of the housing, have you ever considered mounting them
within the leading edge of the wing along w/ a polycarbonate or plexiglass
cover conforming to the shape of the airfoil?
F.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
I fitted LED strobes/nav lights from TLAC in to my classic wing. I ran the cable
from the wing tip in to one of the channels that runs through the foam to the
aileron bell-crank housing, then down the torque tube channel to the wing root.
I've attached the Mod 3 doc, the TLAC details and a couple of pictures. It has
all been approved by the LAA.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475708#475708
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20170319_154929_146.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20170319_154921_143.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tlac001_v10_846.docx
http://forums.matronics.com//files/laa_mod_3__wing_tip_strobes_mod_application__signed_106.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for ideals on landing lights and placement |
Hi,
I fitted a 3846 Lumen 7 LED light in the cowl. It works a treat as a taxi tight
and landing light, only pulls 2 Amps and has a 384 meter beam. It has been approved
by the LAA. The light comes from Australia and is significantly cheaper
than similar lights sold for aircraft.
I've attached the doc I wrote that details the installation and a few pics.
Regards
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475709#475709
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/inside_cowl_103.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/side_view_313.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/front_view_339.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
OK. So the Dynon Heated Pitot is filled, working and approved!
Here's the installation doc I wrote and a pic.
Regards
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475710#475710
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot__small_538.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot001_153.docx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IMC Night application - Propeller |
Just thought I'd post an update on the progress towards getting the VFR restriction
removed from my Tri-Gear.
Well, I'm afraid there has been no progress so far. I'm still waiting for the test
pilot to get approved by the LAA. I'll let you know when something happens.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll be soon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475711#475711
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
Very neat.
Out of interest how much current is actually drawn by the Pitot and did you need
to add an additional alternator?
Alan Burrill
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 27 Nov 2017, at 14:43, carlp101 <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK. So the Dynon Heated Pitot is filled, working and approved!
>
> Here's the installation doc I wrote and a pic.
>
> Regards
> Carl
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475710#475710
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot__small_538.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot001_153.docx
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Behind By 31% - Please Contribute Today! |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year
is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 31%. Please take this
opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums!
Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists
and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members
don't want to support the Lists directly, then I might have to add advertisements
to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I don't want to have to do
that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot
of the members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
made their generous Contribution to support the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IMC Night application - Propeller |
| From: | "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de> |
Good luck, Carl. I'm curious, how you get on with the IFR-clearance of your bird.
That shouldn't be too much of an issue, since our US-Europa friends are flying
their Europas in IMC for several years now, I suppose. Well okay - they don't
have to deal with the LAA :-) But to be fair, the LAA is one of the pioneers
in Europe on this sector and that deserves my respect. Hopefully others will
follow!
So I'm counting on meeting you at Texel next year, no matter what the weather will
be like ;-)
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475750#475750
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IMC Night application - Propeller |
I'll be there Roland. No problem.
:-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475833#475833
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
| From: | "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk> |
Looks good. I'm look for a new pitot so the Dynon look like the way to go.
How did you fix it to the wing?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475841#475841
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk> |
That's helpful. Ordered my nav lights today :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475842#475842
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com> |
| Subject: | The Europa Flyer |
Prior *copies of the excellent Europa Flyer magazine are now available on li
ne and in High Definition. The companion Butcher Flyer Index also allows spe
cific topics contained in back issues of the magazine to be located.
(. * I.e. no longer stops at 2014)
See all at
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution |
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have
helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 54! :-) But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics
Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those
really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
I drilled two holes in the pitot post's base that aligned with the existng holes
from the standard pitot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475988#475988
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Frank,
We have carried these items and never been stuck. Mostly we try to have items
that are unique to our airplane - you can usually borrow other tools and parts.
Strap to attach to engine frame to lift aircraft to change tire
Rotax tool kit including spark plug wrench and combination screwdriver
Small adjustable "Cresent" wrench
Tools to change tire 5mm allen wrench, 10mm, 7/16" and 1/2" sockets, short extension,
ratchet and valve core tool
2 ft safety wire
12 4" tie wraps
Torque drive screw driver to fit the torque screws that hold our cowl in place
Electrical tape
Pliers to grab wing root pins
Special 30A slo blo fuse for alternator output
A few zip plastic bags to put hardware in
All the above fits in a bag 6"x3"x2" and goes under a seat
Jacking block for monowheel similar to what you show
Spare inner tube (it is difficult to find a tube with the bent valve stem)
Small quantity of AeroSport oil
Chocks (we use AirGizmo they are light weight)
Tie downs for overnight
We have not had a tire problem in the last two years. We finally realized that
whenever we did training with a lot of landings, 15 or more one after another,
heat built up in the tire and caused it to fail. Once we got comfortable with
running the tire pressure at 26 psi rather than 18 psi specified, we've not
had flat tires. It is easier to land especially on pavement with 18 psi, but
with experience 26 psi is not too difficult.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476055#476055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
A good list! I carry pretty much the same, I also carry a copy of the page from
the manual illustration of the wheel, handy to help see assembling. I have had
two tube failures, fortunately not while landing, but the next morning flat.
Both failures were at the stamp mark on the tube, weakened by that stamp. Finally
found a much better tube nearly twice as thick. No more issues, but paranoid
enough to carry a spare tube. I still run at 18lbs, I could see the tube wouldnt
suffer as much with more pressure but Im not sure I wouldnt be bouncing
a lot at 26!
Jerry
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:12 AM, h&jeuropa wrote:
>
>
> Frank,
>
> We have carried these items and never been stuck. Mostly we try to have items
that are unique to our airplane - you can usually borrow other tools and parts.
>
>
> Strap to attach to engine frame to lift aircraft to change tire
> Rotax tool kit including spark plug wrench and combination screwdriver
> Small adjustable "Cresent" wrench
> Tools to change tire 5mm allen wrench, 10mm, 7/16" and 1/2" sockets, short extension,
ratchet and valve core tool
> 2 ft safety wire
> 12 4" tie wraps
> Torque drive screw driver to fit the torque screws that hold our cowl in place
> Electrical tape
> Pliers to grab wing root pins
> Special 30A slo blo fuse for alternator output
> A few zip plastic bags to put hardware in
>
> All the above fits in a bag 6"x3"x2" and goes under a seat
>
> Jacking block for monowheel similar to what you show
> Spare inner tube (it is difficult to find a tube with the bent valve stem)
> Small quantity of AeroSport oil
> Chocks (we use AirGizmo they are light weight)
> Tie downs for overnight
>
> We have not had a tire problem in the last two years. We finally realized that
whenever we did training with a lot of landings, 15 or more one after another,
heat built up in the tire and caused it to fail. Once we got comfortable
with running the tire pressure at 26 psi rather than 18 psi specified, we've not
had flat tires. It is easier to land especially on pavement with 18 psi, but
with experience 26 psi is not too difficult.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476055#476055
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Buess Aviatik" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
Jerry,
What type is the "much better tube nearly twice as thick" and where did you buy
it?
Regards, Alfred
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Jerry Rehn
Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Dezember 2017 23:42
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: Europa-List: Re: Tool kit and spares kit
A good list! I carry pretty much the same, I also carry a copy of the page from
the manual illustration of the wheel, handy to help see assembling. I have had
two tube failures, fortunately not while landing, but the next morning flat.
Both failures were at the stamp mark on the tube, weakened by that stamp. Finally
found a much better tube nearly twice as thick. No more issues, but paranoid
enough to carry a spare tube. I still run at 18lbs, I could see the tube wouldnt
suffer as much with more pressure but Im not sure I wouldnt be bouncing
a lot at 26!
Jerry
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AW: Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Alfred,
I have purchased heavy tubes from Desser Tire. The item number is TU 700/800-6
AM, Butyl Easy Valve TR-87.
Here is the link: https://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-and-Tubes/700-800-6-AERO-CLASSIC-INLEAKGUARD-IN-BUTYL-TUBE-AERO-CLASS-GL-7087.asp
Valve TR-87 is the angled valve. They cost $59.95.
I also purchase Airhawk 700-6 6 ply tires from Desser.
Jim Butcher
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476059#476059
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool kit and spares kit |
Alfred
Jim sent off email before me, thats where I get mine too.
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 2, 2017, at 2:47 AM, A. Buess Aviatik wrote:
>
>
> Jerry,
> What type is the "much better tube nearly twice as thick" and where did you buy
it?
> Regards, Alfred
>
> -----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Jerry Rehn
> Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Dezember 2017 23:42
> An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Europa-List: Re: Tool kit and spares kit
>
>
> A good list! I carry pretty much the same, I also carry a copy of the page from
the manual illustration of the wheel, handy to help see assembling. I have
had two tube failures, fortunately not while landing, but the next morning flat.
Both failures were at the stamp mark on the tube, weakened by that stamp. Finally
found a much better tube nearly twice as thick. No more issues, but paranoid
enough to carry a spare tube. I still run at 18lbs, I could see the tube
wouldnt suffer as much with more pressure but Im not sure I wouldnt be bouncing
a lot at 26!
> Jerry
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Tank Drain Plug |
| From: | "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Jim and others who might be interested.
Just to confirm, the drain works well. I drilled a 1.5 mm hole in the casing where
the circlip washer goes to allow wire locking in position.
Cheers
John
[quote="Jim Kelly"]Hi John,
Please keep me posted
Jim Kelly.
G-BWEG Classic Taildragger
Hello to all, this post made me think I need to fit one of these as well.
A quick search on the Internet yielded this result from Quick Valve in the UK.
Model F107N has a nipple to allow a tube to be fitted and it costs 23.97 GBP plus
postage. Mine is on it's way.
http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f107n_details.htm (http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f107n_details.htm)
Regards,
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476084#476084
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Tank Drain Plug |
Hi,
I feel it necessary to mention that in the UK under LAA rules a mod approval
will probably be required before fitting this item. I think the device may
indeed be a good idea but you cannot just fit it without approval.
Pete Jeffers (LAA Inspector for The Europa Club)
PS Rules applicable outside the UK probably differ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnFrance
Sent: 04 December 2017 09:47
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax Oil Tank Drain Plug
Hello Jim and others who might be interested.
Just to confirm, the drain works well. I drilled a 1.5 mm hole in the casing
where the circlip washer goes to allow wire locking in position.
Cheers
John
[quote="Jim Kelly"]Hi John,
Please keep me posted Jim Kelly.
G-BWEG Classic Taildragger
Hello to all, this post made me think I need to fit one of these as well.
A quick search on the Internet yielded this result from Quick Valve in the
UK.
Model F107N has a nipple to allow a tube to be fitted and it costs 23.97
GBP plus postage. Mine is on it's way.
http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f107n_details.htm
(http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f107n_details.htm)
Regards,
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476084#476084
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Hitchcock <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com> |
| Subject: | LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Still no further specifics on the failing fuel bend. But much activity in th
e background
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/news/laa-airworthiness-alert-ail-december-2017-
all-europas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelly <europajimkelly(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Many thanks for the info Bob already noted.
Is there any proposed flights other than Dave's Spanish adventure.
Best wishes Jim
On 5 Dec 2017 1:28 p.m., "Bob Hitchcock" wrote:
Still no further specifics on the failing fuel bend. But much activity in
the background
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/news/laa-airworthiness-alert-
ail-december-2017-all-europas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
| From: | "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk> |
Did you get LAA approval ok? Especially relocation of the static source.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476113#476113
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
Yes. The mod number is 14656.
Regards
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476129#476129
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought..... |
| From: | "rainbow462" <jeremy.hoyland(at)pepsico.com> |
Hi.
We have an issue where radio transmissions mute the intercom, preventing pilot/passenger
comms. Once a radio message has finished the intercom is ok again.
Just wondered if anyone has had something similar or has any ideas we can explore
The radio is a Funkwerk 833 and the intercom is a flightcom 403.
Many thanks
Jeremy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476134#476134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought..... |
Sounds like the headset audio is being routed through the auxiliary input normally
used for music. Dont know the intercom myself but the Funk has an inbuilt
two place intercom and it doesnt exhibit that effect, I have one, so must be the
Flightcom 403 and either the wiring between the two or the setup.
Is it a new setup?
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 Dec 2017, at 16:22, rainbow462 wrote:
>
>
> Hi.
>
> We have an issue where radio transmissions mute the intercom, preventing pilot/passenger
comms. Once a radio message has finished the intercom is ok again.
Just wondered if anyone has had something similar or has any ideas we can
explore
>
> The radio is a Funkwerk 833 and the intercom is a flightcom 403.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476134#476134
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
If anyone is still interested in this I mounted my AOA on the wing
inspection cover. Seems to work fine.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:18 AM, carlp101 <cparkinson@cisc-uk.com> wrote:
>
> Yes. The mod number is 14656.
>
> Regards
> Carl
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476129#476129
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought..... |
Hi
I am a complete amateur on radio stuff, but I do remember in the past having a
similar problem. It is caused by factory default which has decided that radio
transmissions should override the intercom. I fixed the problem through the setup
pages on the radio where you can alter the priorities.
Just a random thought that just may help.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrill
Sent: 06 December 2017 16:33
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought.....
Sounds like the headset audio is being routed through the auxiliary input normally
used for music. Dont know the intercom myself but the Funk has an inbuilt
two place intercom and it doesnt exhibit that effect, I have one, so must be the
Flightcom 403 and either the wiring between the two or the setup.
Is it a new setup?
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 Dec 2017, at 16:22, rainbow462 wrote:
>
> -->
>
> Hi.
>
> We have an issue where radio transmissions mute the intercom, preventing pilot/passenger
comms. Once a radio message has finished the intercom is ok again.
Just wondered if anyone has had something similar or has any ideas we can
explore
>
> The radio is a Funkwerk 833 and the intercom is a flightcom 403.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476134#476134
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought..... |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
This is a safety option incorporated in most modern radios(with built-in intercoms)
and standalone audio. The marketing blather usually calls
it Radio Priority or Auto-Mute. Depending on manufacturer, it can be
disabled by a switch, by a jumper on the rear connector, or some other imaginative,
inconvenient technique.
In the case of the 403, from the manual:
(http://www.angelesflying.com/documents/manuals/flightcom403mcManual.pdf)
Look at Figure 5 and 6
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476191#476191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom issue - wisdom of the group sought..... |
On 2017-12-06, at 16:22, rainbow462 wrote:
> We have an issue where radio transmissions mute the intercom, preventing pilot/passenger
comms. Once a radio message has finished the intercom is ok again.
Just wondered if anyone has had something similar or has any ideas we can
explore
Jeremy - sounds like desired behaviour to me. I sometimes have difficulty getting
passengers to shut up when a transmission for me comes in, or when I want to
transmit. Usually radio traffic is of more importance than cockpit chatter (except,
of course, for Traffic 1 oclock!).
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
wdaniell.longport(at)gmai wrote:
> If anyone is still interested in this I mounted my AOA on the wing inspection
cover. Seems to work fine.
> Will
>
>
Hi Will,
Yes I am very interested,as I have also fitted my AOA the same as you. I hesitated
to post about it here, as my aircraft has not yet flown, but your post have
given me confidence that it should be OK. I have submitted and am awaiting approval
of a MOD for this method of attachment in the UK. I had originally attached
the probe to the perspex cover, but the LAA requested I use an metal cover.
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476198#476198
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_6_969.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_7_538.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
Bob....
I used a fiberglass cover and made a layup "mast". The tas vs indicated is
spot on so you shouldn't have an issue.
I'll happily send you fotos.
Will
On Dec 7, 2017 04:32, "BobD" wrote:
wdaniell.longport(at)gmai wrote:
> If anyone is still interested in this I mounted my AOA on the wing
inspection cover. Seems to work fine.
> Will
>
>
Hi Will,
Yes I am very interested,as I have also fitted my AOA the same as you. I
hesitated to post about it here, as my aircraft has not yet flown, but your
post have given me confidence that it should be OK. I have submitted and am
awaiting approval of a MOD for this method of attachment in the UK. I had
originally attached the probe to the perspex cover, but the LAA requested I
use an metal cover.
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476198#476198
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_6_969.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_7_538.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Tuck <MJKTuck(at)cs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
Did you just run the lines along the aileron pushrod?
Martin Tuck
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 7:10 AM, William Daniell w
rote:
>
> Bob....
>
> I used a fiberglass cover and made a layup "mast". The tas vs indicated is
spot on so you shouldn't have an issue.
>
> I'll happily send you fotos.
>
> Will
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2017 04:32, "BobD" wrote:
>
>
> wdaniell.longport(at)gmai wrote:
> > If anyone is still interested in this I mounted my AOA on the wing inspe
ction cover. Seems to work fine.
> > Will
> >
> >
>
>
> Hi Will,
> Yes I am very interested,as I have also fitted my AOA the same as you. I h
esitated to post about it here, as my aircraft has not yet flown, but your p
ost have given me confidence that it should be OK. I have submitted and am a
waiting approval of a MOD for this method of attachment in the UK. I had ori
ginally attached the probe to the perspex cover, but the LAA requested I use
an metal cover.
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476198#476198
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_6_969.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/14727_7_538.jpg
>
>
>
> =========================
> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
> =========================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> =========================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
| From: | "BobD" <rjd(at)bobdawson.plus.com> |
Wil, please do send me photos, or post them here.
Martin, I was fortunate in that the original builder had run plastic conduit through
the wing, with wiring for navigation lights, that I don't need, so I cut
into this conduit ( as can be seen in the photo), and run 4mm pneumatic tubing
through this. You can also see I converted this tubing back to 6mm to fit the
AOA probe.
--------
Bob Dawson
XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476215#476215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Pitot/AOA |
Bob
Here is my website.
https://sites.google.com/site/europaconstructionwd/
Navigate to "construction photos/dynon" for pics of pitot aoa mast.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:36 AM, BobD wrote:
>
> Wil, please do send me photos, or post them here.
>
> Martin, I was fortunate in that the original builder had run plastic
> conduit through the wing, with wiring for navigation lights, that I don't
> need, so I cut into this conduit ( as can be seen in the photo), and run
> 4mm pneumatic tubing through this. You can also see I converted this tubing
> back to 6mm to fit the AOA probe.
>
> --------
> Bob Dawson
> XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476215#476215
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Tired of winter already. So make plans for Sun 'n Fun 10-15 |
April 2018
Our first winter cold front has hit Florida and we haven=92t seen the sun f
or a couple days and it is all the way down to 40F. Well for those of us i
n Florida, that=92s cold. It is time to make plans for spring. Steve Pitt
has wired he has plane tickets already to get away from winter and get rev
ed up for the flying season.
Come join us at Lakeland Florida April 10-15 for Sun 'n Fun 2018. Custom F
light Creations will be displaying Airmaster Propellers and Europa Aircraft
at site N-55 right on the flight line main taxiway (which is a great place
to see the airshow by the way). Winter is a drag, so while the plane is d
own for its maintenance before the flying season come and get your attitude
right for flight. Anita and I along with Steve and representatives of the
Europa Club will be your hosts. We will have an evening "Engineering meet
ing / dinner" for sure, as well as discussions under the tent about all thi
ngs Airmaster and Europa.
I hope to be back on flying status by then and actually fly some planes ove
r to the show.
So set your vacation days, and get away from winter and join us for some fu
n in the sun.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Window
s 10
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Another beautiful europa video.... |
| From: | Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
...this one from Jack... thought it maybe of interest to share :-)
https://youtu.be/BxXnEC574zA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk> |
Checked my 6 year old, rubber conventional filler tube (old style long one from
the centre of the fuselage. Looked good as new to me and very flexible, no signs
of cracking around the face or inside. Surely first signs would be black bits
in the fuel filter.
Was there any progress on the metal filler, did anyone get a batch made? Was it
with Nev?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476346#476346
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info> |
Hi Graeme
Suspect first sign would be a fuel smell and damp filler pipe.
Standard mod shortly available as SM 13070. Paper work is with Andy
Draper at the moment but I believe just about complete.
John Archer is getting a batch of pipes made down in France. Suggest you
contact John direct 77alembert(at)gmail.com.
Regards
Pete
On 11/12/17 21:30, graeme bird wrote:
>
> Checked my 6 year old, rubber conventional filler tube (old style long one from
the centre of the fuselage. Looked good as new to me and very flexible, no
signs of cracking around the face or inside. Surely first signs would be black
bits in the fuel filter.
> Was there any progress on the metal filler, did anyone get a batch made? Was
it with Nev?
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis
AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus,
SmartA3
> 325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476346#476346
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <duanefamly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | =?utf-8?Q?Calibrating_ASI? |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "clivesutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com> |
Hi,
Just before i order a new one, does anyone have a second-hand AP332S hub and VP
controller they could sell me - with or without Warp-Drive 62" blades (i'm in
the UK)?
regards,
Clive
G-YETI (now flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476373#476373
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating ASI |
| From: | GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> |
/Le 13/12/2017 02:23, duanefamly(at)aol.com a crit :
/
> //
> /To those that have already done this, I seem to remember someone
> having a GPS measured triangular course that they flew, recorded the
> reading of their GPS and panel ASI and came up with a calibration
> factor. Is there a written procedure that they wish to share?/
Mike,
Here
http://contrails.free.fr/tas.php
Scroll down to the bottom of the page to find the Excel spreadsheet, and
Doug Gray's original article.
Hope this helps.
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating ASI |
Alternatively see the article by Andy Draper in Aug 2015 Europa Flyer.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-13 01:23, duanefamly(at)aol.com wrote:
> To those that have already done this, I seem to remember someone having a GPS
measured triangular course that they flew, recorded the reading of their GPS
and panel ASI and came up with a calibration factor. Is there a written procedure
that they wish to share?
> Also, other than swinging and recording the correction card numbers for the mag
compass, any other calibration procedures that I am forgetting?
> Getting closer.
>
> Mike Duane
> Europa XS
> N377EA
> Las Vegas, NV, USA
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> |
A picture of two section of original pipe from my aircraft, looked fine on the
outside but definitely breaking up on the inside,
the amount of rubber actually exposed to the fuel was very small on my installation,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476389#476389
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2f7baddf_784c_46cb_b920_6cacd3c0aa2c_984.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8145fca1_5ba6_4e70_959d_0a589c4e6b43_883.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Ivor, How old was the pipe? David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-14 09:21, Ivor wrote:
>
> A picture of two section of original pipe from my aircraft, looked fine on the
outside but definitely breaking up on the inside,
> the amount of rubber actually exposed to the fuel was very small on my installation,
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476389#476389 [1]
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2f7baddf_784c_46cb_b920_6cacd3c0aa2c_984.jpeg [2]
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/8145fca1_5ba6_4e70_959d_0a589c4e6b43_883.jpeg [3]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476389#476389
[2]
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2f7baddf_784c_46cb_b920_6cacd3c0aa2c_984.jpeg
[3]
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8145fca1_5ba6_4e70_959d_0a589c4e6b43_883.jpeg
[4] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[5] http://forums.matronics.com
[6] http://wiki.matronics.com
[7] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating ASI |
Mike,
Log on to EAA.org<http://EAA.org> and type in airspeed calibration. A numbe
r of articles. With GPS there is no sense not using it. I've used this fo
r years. No math, simple add and subtract.
I note the winds and temp from natl wx service weather. I fly a box. Into
across downwind and cross.
Best regards,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Dec 12, 2017 8:32 PM, duanefamly(at)aol.com wrote:
To those that have already done this, I seem to remember someone having a G
PS measured triangular course that they flew, recorded the reading of their
GPS and panel ASI and came up with a calibration factor. Is there a writte
n procedure that they wish to share?
Also, other than swinging and recording the correction card numbers for the
mag compass, any other calibration procedures that I am forgetting?
Getting closer.
Mike Duane
Europa XS
N377EA
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Sent from Windows Mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> |
Hi David
original pipe with 10 years use, did check it at five years obviously but it seemed
fine at the time,
luckily Frank xuereb down the road from me had some spare original pipe going spare,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476391#476391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Ivor,What fuels have you been using predominantly and do you leave the tanks full
(or at least the rubber connector internally submerged) between flights?
Rgds.,Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: g-iver(at)live.co.uk
Date: 14/12/2017 13:04
Subj: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi David
original pipe with 10 years use, did check it at five years obviously but it seemed
fine at the time,
luckily Frank xuereb down the road from me had some spare original pipe going spare,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476391#476391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
For the assembled wisdom
I have a minor amount of slop in my controls from the tufnol bearings at
front and back of the cockpit module. I don't notice it in flight but
it's an imperfection and l guess we all know how that feels. This is
derived either from build or some kind of drying out/shrinkage over the
considerable lapse between assembling flying controls and flight.
My thoughts were to drill a hole in the top of the tufnol bearing into
which I could inject grease - maybe damping grease.
Anyone got any other ideas that don't include major surgery?
Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control slop |
Will,You don't say whether radial or axial 'slop'.Greasing the dried out bearings
usually causes the Tufnol to expand in a direction perpendicular to the plane
of the fabric, which would remove some axial slop but can cause the bearing
to go tight/sticky.I don't know how you would remove radial slop; grease would
be quickly displaced from the imperfect bearing contact of this item.
Duncan McF
----Original Message----
From: wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com
Date: 14/12/2017 17:49
Subj: Europa-List: Control slop
For the assembled wisdom
I have a minor amount of slop in my controls from the tufnol bearings at front
and back of the cockpit module. I don't notice it in flight but it's an imperfection
and l guess we all know how that feels. This is derived either from
build or some kind of drying out/shrinkage over the considerable lapse between
assembling flying controls and flight.
My thoughts were to drill a hole in the top of the tufnol bearing into which I
could inject grease - maybe damping grease.
Anyone got any other ideas that don't include major surgery?
Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating ASI |
On 2017-12-13 01:23, duanefamly(at)aol.com wrote:
> To those that have already done this, I seem to remember someone having a GPS
measured triangular course that they flew, recorded the reading of their GPS
and panel ASI and came up with a calibration factor. Is there a written procedure
that they wish to share?
> Also, other than swinging and recording the correction card numbers for the mag
compass, any other calibration procedures that I am forgetting?
> Getting closer.
>
> Mike Duane
> Europa XS
> N377EA
> Las Vegas, NV, USA
Mike - I didnt receive and cant seem to find your original message (even using
the Matronics search engine) so I am quoting it from another reply.
There was a folder of information about using GPS to determine TAS and compass
errors included on the CD in the Europa Club new-member pack that I used to send
out when I was MemSec. Im not sure if those files had been incorporated at
the time you would have had your pack, in Apr 2000. I am trying to get the files
put up in the calculations section of the new Club website, but have to wait
for someone with the appropriate access to do that.
In the meantime, you could have a look at:
https://www.ntps.edu/information/downloads.html
where several relevant files are available for download under the heading Using
GPS to Determine Pitot-Static Errors.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> |
Hi Duncan
I have always tried to minimise Avgas use but some times that all you can
get, so Mainly UL91 with some Super unleaded as a last resort,
Yes i do try to leave the fuel tank full but not normally up the cobra,
The amount of Rubber exposed to any fuel is quite small, after the cobra i have
a aluminium pipe so the two pieces you see just connect the pipe to the tank
and cobra,
outside condition of the rubber is good,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476400#476400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Calibrating ASI |
Rowland,Have you come across a version that allows calibration to the instr
ument (rather than to true airspeed, which then needs fiddling back to see
what the instrument should have been reading relative to true airspeed)?
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com
Date: 14/12/2017 18:09
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Calibrating ASI
On 2017-12-13 01:23, duanefamly(at)aol.com wrote:
> To those that have already done this, I seem to remember someone having a
GPS measured triangular course that they flew, recorded the reading of the
ir GPS and panel ASI and came up with a calibration factor. Is there a writ
ten procedure that they wish to share?
> Also, other than swinging and recording the correction card numbers for t
he mag compass, any other calibration procedures that I am forgetting?
> Getting closer.
>
> Mike Duane
> Europa XS
> N377EA
> Las Vegas, NV, USA
Mike - I didn=99t receive and can=99t seem to find your origina
l message (even using the Matronics search engine) so I am quoting it from
another reply.
There was a folder of information about using GPS to determine TAS and comp
ass errors included on the CD in the Europa Club new-member pack that I use
d to send out when I was MemSec. I=99m not sure if those files had be
en incorporated at the time you would have had your pack, in Apr 2000. I am
trying to get the files put up in the =9Ccalculations=9D secti
on of the new Club website, but have to wait for someone with the appropria
te access to do that.
In the meantime, you could have a look at:
https://www.ntps.edu/information/downloads.html
where several relevant files are available for download under the heading
=9CUsing GPS to Determine Pitot-Static Errors=9D.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Ivor,Will you be replacing with Viton lined stuff? The only affordable Viton (at
that diameter) seems to be fluorosilicone lined silicone hose, which is not
rated for permanent (internal) immersion, but is advertised to be OK for temporary
immersion and full time contact with vapours. Softer too, which may make
getting a gas-tight seal a bit easier.
D.
----Original Message----
From: g-iver(at)live.co.uk
Date: 14/12/2017 18:24
Subj: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi Duncan
I have always tried to minimise Avgas use but some times that all you can
get, so Mainly UL91 with some Super unleaded as a last resort,
Yes i do try to leave the fuel tank full but not normally up the cobra,
The amount of Rubber exposed to any fuel is quite small, after the cobra i have
a aluminium pipe so the two pieces you see just connect the pipe to the tank
and cobra,
outside condition of the rubber is good,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476400#476400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control slop |
Mmm thanks....
The slop is a little of both...I though about a shim of the same phenolic
material like a large washer split in half but as you say about the grease
option, this would probably work for the axial movement not the radial slop.
Will
On Dec 14, 2017 13:09, "ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net" <
ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net> wrote:
Will,
You don't say whether radial or axial 'slop'.
Greasing the dried out bearings usually causes the Tufnol to expand in a
direction perpendicular to the plane of the fabric, which would remove some
axial slop but can cause the bearing to go tight/sticky.
I don't know how you would remove radial slop; grease would be quickly
displaced from the imperfect bearing contact of this item.
Duncan McF
----Original Message----
From: wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com
Date: 14/12/2017 17:49
Subj: Europa-List: Control slop
For the assembled wisdom
I have a minor amount of slop in my controls from the tufnol bearings at
front and back of the cockpit module. I don't notice it in flight but
it's an imperfection and l guess we all know how that feels. This is
derived either from build or some kind of drying out/shrinkage over the
considerable lapse between assembling flying controls and flight.
My thoughts were to drill a hole in the top of the tufnol bearing into
which I could inject grease - maybe damping grease.
Anyone got any other ideas that don't include major surgery?
Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Replacement fuel filler pipe for CLASSIC as per SM 13070 |
| From: | "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com> |
To all Classic owners.
Everything is finally in place to manufacture replacement one piece fuel filler
pipes in aluminium for the classic in accordance with LAA Standard Mod 13070.
Due to the fabrication process requiring a set up charge it will be uneconomical
to make less than 10 parts and a higher volume will help reduce the price. The
parts will be supplied with the excess material needed to form the tube and
will require cutting to length to suit your installation requirements.
To instal the tube you will require two short lengths of hose, 2 jubilee clips,
potential suppliers are given in the mod.
I estimate that the part can be supplied for about 230 GBP plus postage.
Each owner must determine the requirements to install this mod in their aircraft.
If you would like to acquire one of these tubes please PM me with your contact
details and quantity required by the 15 January 2018.
Regards,
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476404#476404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net> |
Hi all,
Has anybody in the UK got a spare outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them
to part with?
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DONALD CAMERON <fireflier(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
Morning David
I will have the out rigger forks in my box of bits as I had originally bought a
mono kit but built it as a tri gear.
Im going out to the airfield this morning so will see if I can find them for you.
Kind regards
Donald
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 15/12/17, David Watts wrote:
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger fork
To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@.com>
Date: Friday, 15 December, 2017, 6:29
Watts
Hi all,
Has anybody in the UK got a spare
outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them to part
with?
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450
hrs
The Europa-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
| From: | David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net> |
Donald,
Thanks again for your help.
I have just had a fork snap in half at the top.
Dave
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:23, DONALD CAMERON wrote:
>
>
> Morning David
>
> I will have the out rigger forks in my box of bits as I had originally bought
a mono kit but built it as a tri gear.
>
> Im going out to the airfield this morning so will see if I can find them for
you.
>
> Kind regards
> Donald
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 15/12/17, David Watts wrote:
>
> Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger fork
> To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@.com>
> Date: Friday, 15 December, 2017, 6:29
>
> Watts
>
> Hi all,
>
> Has anybody in the UK got a spare
> outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them to part
> with?
>
> Dave Watts
> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450
> hrs
>
> The Europa-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> support!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> |
Hi Duncan
as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when hopefully
a more permanent solution is found,
IMO if a hose designed for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then its not fit
for purpose,
my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an original
hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald Cameron <fireflier(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
Hi Dave
I have been at the airfield and have found all the mono parts for the outriggers.
Is it just the bits that are attached to the wing brackets for the outrigger
legs you require?
Regards
Donald
G-PUPY
Sent from my iPhone
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:42, David Watts wrote:
>
>
> Donald,
>
> Thanks again for your help.
> I have just had a fork snap in half at the top.
>
> Dave
>
>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:23, DONALD CAMERON wrote:
>>
>>
>> Morning David
>>
>> I will have the out rigger forks in my box of bits as I had originally bought
a mono kit but built it as a tri gear.
>>
>> Im going out to the airfield this morning so will see if I can find them for
you.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Donald
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Fri, 15/12/17, David Watts wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger fork
>> To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@.com>
>> Date: Friday, 15 December, 2017, 6:29
>>
>> Watts
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Has anybody in the UK got a spare
>> outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them to part
>> with?
>>
>> Dave Watts
>> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450
>> hrs
>>
>> The Europa-List Email Forum -
>> Navigator to browse
>> List Un/Subscription,
>> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> via the Web Forums!
>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> Email List Wiki!
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> support!
>>
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info> |
Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe
with aluminium. The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed
100% for petrol is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
>
> Hi Duncan
>
> as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
> Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when hopefully
> a more permanent solution is found,
> IMO if a hose designed for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then its not fit
> for purpose,
> my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an original
hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
| From: | David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net> |
Hi Donald,
The bit I need is the fork that actually holds the wheel at the bottom of the outrigger
leg. The fork is made from thin flat steel shaped as a fork with a round
tube welded on top so that it can be attached to the outrigger leg.
Dave
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 18:15, Donald Cameron wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dave
>
> I have been at the airfield and have found all the mono parts for the outriggers.
Is it just the bits that are attached to the wing brackets for the outrigger
legs you require?
>
> Regards
> Donald
> G-PUPY
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:42, David Watts wrote:
>>
>>
>> Donald,
>>
>> Thanks again for your help.
>> I have just had a fork snap in half at the top.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:23, DONALD CAMERON wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Morning David
>>>
>>> I will have the out rigger forks in my box of bits as I had originally bought
a mono kit but built it as a tri gear.
>>>
>>> Im going out to the airfield this morning so will see if I can find them for
you.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>> Donald
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Fri, 15/12/17, David Watts wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger fork
>>> To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@.com>
>>> Date: Friday, 15 December, 2017, 6:29
>>>
>>> Watts
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Has anybody in the UK got a spare
>>> outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them to part
>>> with?
>>>
>>> Dave Watts
>>> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450
>>> hrs
>>>
>>> The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>> Navigator to browse
>>> List Un/Subscription,
>>> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> via the Web Forums!
>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>> Email List Wiki!
>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>> support!
>>>
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald Cameron <fireflier(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
Hi Dave
Photos attached showing parts, presume from your description it
Is the middle bag.
Regards
Donald
Sent from my iPhone
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 18:31, David Watts wrote:
>
>
> Hi Donald,
>
> The bit I need is the fork that actually holds the wheel at the bottom of t
he outrigger leg. The fork is made from thin flat steel shaped as a fork wit
h a round tube welded on top so that it can be attached to the outrigger leg
.
>
> Dave
>
>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 18:15, Donald Cameron wrote
:
>>
om>
>>
>> Hi Dave
>>
>> I have been at the airfield and have found all the mono parts for the out
riggers. Is it just the bits that are attached to the wing brackets for the o
utrigger legs you require?
>>
>> Regards
>> Donald
>> G-PUPY
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:42, David Watts wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Donald,
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your help.
>>> I have just had a fork snap in half at the top.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>> On 15 Dec 2017, at 09:23, DONALD CAMERON wro
te:
>>>>
.com>
>>>>
>>>> Morning David
>>>>
>>>> I will have the out rigger forks in my box of bits as I had originally b
ought a mono kit but built it as a tri gear.
>>>>
>>>> I=99m going out to the airfield this morning so will see if I can
find them for you.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> Donald
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> On Fri, 15/12/17, David Watts wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger fork
>>>> To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@.com>
>>>> Date: Friday, 15 December, 2017, 6:29
>>>>
>>>> Watts
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Has anybody in the UK got a spare
>>>> outrigger fork or two that I could persuade them to part
>>>> with?
>>>>
>>>> Dave Watts
>>>> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S Airmaster 2450
>>>> hrs
>>>>
>>>> The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>> Navigator to browse
>>>> List Un/Subscription,
>>>> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> via the Web Forums!
>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>> Email List Wiki!
>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> support!
>>>>
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Ringrose" <andy_ringrose(at)onetel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium
pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion
particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration
to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium
unleaded.
Andy
GMAUS Mono
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol is
Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de> |
Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel filler
hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose the best
available.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of
the LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
>
> Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
> I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel filler
hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose the best
available.
> Regards
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416 [1]
>
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
[2] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
[3] http://forums.matronics.com
[4] http://wiki.matronics.com
[5] http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | anthony van eldik <afc.tulips7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independen
tly by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good con
dition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending
a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to
find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended bagg
age bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of t
he LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
>
> Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
>
>
>
>
>> On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
>> I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fu
el filler hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose
the best available.
>> Regards
>> Roland
>> PH-ZTI
>> XS TG 914
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ics.com
>> .com
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the
fuel system (and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or
whether you fill up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe
have spent most of its life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards,
David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote:
> Dear David,
>
> For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independently
by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good condition
inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending a suitable
replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to find a replacement
silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended baggage bay short
hose version.
> Regards
> Anthony van Eldik
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the
LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
>
> Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
>
>
> Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
> I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel filler
hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose the best
available.
> Regards
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416 [1]
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ics.com [2]
> .com
> .matronics.com/contribution [3]
Links:
------
[1] http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
[2] http://ics.com
[3] http://matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de> |
Thanks, David.
I think I'll replace the hose by a new silicon hose or the original one from Europa
for at least another 5 years peace of mind.
What amazes me is, that there are huge differences in the condition of the hoses
although exposed in a similar environment.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476420#476420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All |
Europas
David and all,
Over here in the States we weld up a 57 degree elbow out of 2" .049 6061T-6
. Cut to fit. 2" fuel hose pieces and done.
Rather than those beautiful bent tubes, would the LAA allow such a simple m
od that only costs a few bucks to make? The certified welder is the only co
st. I cut the tube on my compound miter saw.
Curt welds it up in 10 minutes. It takes 5 minutes to trim up the ends to f
it.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Dec 15, 2017 4:20 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the fuel s
ystem (and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or whether
you fill up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe have spent mo
st of its life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards, David Joyce, GX
SDJ
On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote:
Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independe
ntly by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good c
ondition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pend
ing a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possibl
e to find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended
baggage bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of th
e LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
hmidtroland(at)web.de>>
Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel
filler hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose
the best available.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
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ics.com
.com
.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control slop |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Bud, Sounds great to me but I think Pete Jeffers is the one to answer
that - he is our LAA inspector on the committee and very much involved
with trying to get a sensible solution approved.
Regards, David
On 2017-12-15 21:29, Bud Yerly wrote:
> David and all,
> Over here in the States we weld up a 57 degree elbow out of 2" .049 6061T-6.
Cut to fit. 2" fuel hose pieces and done.
>
> Rather than those beautiful bent tubes, would the LAA allow such a simple mod
that only costs a few bucks to make? The certified welder is the only cost. I
cut the tube on my compound miter saw.
> Curt welds it up in 10 minutes. It takes 5 minutes to trim up the ends to fit.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> _Bud Yerly,_
> _Custom Flight Creations, Inc._
>
> _Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID_
> On Dec 15, 2017 4:20 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the fuel system
(and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or whether you fill
up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe have spent most of its
life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote: Dear David,
>
> For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independently
by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good condition
inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending a suitable
replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to find a replacement
silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended baggage bay short
hose version.
> Regards
> Anthony van Eldik
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the
LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
>
> Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
>
> On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
>
>
> Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
> I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel filler
hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose the best
available.
> Regards
> Roland
> PH-ZTI
> XS TG 914
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416 [1]
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ics.com [2]
> .com
> .matronics.com/contribution [3]
Links:
------
[1]
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D476416%23476416&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1607c8349d004ab4888d08d54401b863%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636489696528699264&sdata=MBIZBTQOYXpOxqxPJXeg8HihA9NCm%2FSz5S6lcWFD2qc%3D&reserved=0
[2]
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[3]
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Control slop |
| From: | "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com> |
The Enemy of Good is Better!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476424#476424
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control slop |
Hahaha....
Thanks for your adjustment to Fred the great.
And thanks to everyone....I will follow Bud's advice and leave well
alone...... for now.
Will
On Dec 15, 2017 17:46, "rampil" wrote:
>
> The Enemy of Good is Better!
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476424#476424
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Cook <iancook_1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger fork |
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Cj4+Pj4gc3VwcG9ydCENCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCj4+
DQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+Pg0KPg0KPg0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09DQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCj09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09DQo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCj4NCj4NCj4NCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All |
Europas
Hi Bud,
"would the LAA allow such a simple mod"- Nobody is standing in the way of
simple mods, it's just that no one has asked!
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: 15 December 2017 21:30
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
David and all,
Over here in the States we weld up a 57 degree elbow out of 2" .049 6061T-6.
Cut to fit. 2" fuel hose pieces and done.
Rather than those beautiful bent tubes, would the LAA allow such a simple
mod that only costs a few bucks to make? The certified welder is the only
cost. I cut the tube on my compound miter saw.
Curt welds it up in 10 minutes. It takes 5 minutes to trim up the ends to
fit.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Dec 15, 2017 4:20 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the fuel
system (and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or whether
you fill up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe have spent
most of its life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards, David Joyce,
GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote:
Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected
independently by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in
very good condition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium
unleaded .Pending a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It
should be possible to find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have
the Xs extended baggage bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the
LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel
filler hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose
the best available.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476416#476416
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ics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that is
only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact with
fuel vapours.
Regards
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ringrose
Sent: 15 December 2017 19:10
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
-->
Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium
pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion
particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration
to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium
unleaded.
Andy
GMAUS Mono
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol is
Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol is
Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
>
> Hi Duncan
>
> as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
> Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when
> hopefully a more permanent solution is found, IMO if a hose designed
> for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then its not fit for purpose,
> my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an
> original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info> |
Hi Brian
I have been working with John Archer to get the standard mod for
converting the classic filler tube to aluminium approved. This is
currently with Andy Draper and just about ready to go. LAA will only
consider fully fuel proof hose, which is the Samco Pro Fuel. Everything
I have found other than this is only usable as a filler not for
permanent contact. The same problem will apply to the XS replacement.
Pete
On 16/12/17 09:27, Brian Davies wrote:
>
> Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
>
> Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
>
> Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that is
only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact
with fuel vapours.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ringrose
> Sent: 15 December 2017 19:10
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>
> -->
>
> Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
>
> Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium
pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion
particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration
to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium
unleaded.
>
> Andy
>
> GMAUS Mono
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>
>
> Hi Ivor
>
> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol
is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
>
> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Hi Pete,
You have expressed the problem much more clearly than I did. You could use rubber
instead of lined silicone hoses but it is hard (impossible?) to find out if
the rubber is proof against modern Mogas without actually testing it. It is,
however, nearly 1/4 inch thick so it should last for at least a year. :-)
Regards
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 16 December 2017 09:50
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
Hi Brian
I have been working with John Archer to get the standard mod for converting the
classic filler tube to aluminium approved. This is currently with Andy Draper
and just about ready to go. LAA will only consider fully fuel proof hose, which
is the Samco Pro Fuel. Everything I have found other than this is only usable
as a filler not for permanent contact. The same problem will apply to the
XS replacement.
Pete
On 16/12/17 09:27, Brian Davies wrote:
>
> Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
>
> Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
>
> Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that is
only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact
with fuel vapours.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ringrose
> Sent: 15 December 2017 19:10
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>
> -->
>
> Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
>
> Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium
pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion
particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration
to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium
unleaded.
>
> Andy
>
> GMAUS Mono
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>
>
> Hi Ivor
>
> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol
is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
>
> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Ive been looking at the Samco Pro for an XS, has the shorter 45 degree bend rubber
pipe. Unfortunately my measurements indicate I need one with leg lengths of
100mm and 160mm which is not standard and would be a special order. Ive been
quoted Feb 18 delivery if I provide a drawing.
Anyone found a suitable replacement elsewhere?
Of course I could just use the one from Europa but I guess that routine checking
and/or replacement is going to become a maintenance item so silicon would be
a sensible lifetime solution.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 16 Dec 2017, at 10:29, Brian Davies wrote:
>
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> You have expressed the problem much more clearly than I did. You could use rubber
instead of lined silicone hoses but it is hard (impossible?) to find out
if the rubber is proof against modern Mogas without actually testing it. It is,
however, nearly 1/4 inch thick so it should last for at least a year. :-)
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 16 December 2017 09:50
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>
>
> Hi Brian
>
> I have been working with John Archer to get the standard mod for converting the
classic filler tube to aluminium approved. This is currently with Andy Draper
and just about ready to go. LAA will only consider fully fuel proof hose,
which is the Samco Pro Fuel. Everything I have found other than this is only
usable as a filler not for permanent contact. The same problem will apply to
the XS replacement.
>
> Pete
>
>
>> On 16/12/17 09:27, Brian Davies wrote:
>>
>> Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
>>
>> Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
>>
>> Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that
is only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact
with fuel vapours.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ringrose
>> Sent: 15 December 2017 19:10
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>>
>> -->
>>
>> Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
>>
>> Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium
pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion
particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration
to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium
unleaded.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> GMAUS Mono
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>>
>>
>> Hi Ivor
>>
>> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol
is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
>>
>> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Replacement fuel filler pipe for CLASSIC as per SM 13070 |
| From: | "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com> |
To help ascertain whether this is the correct pipe for you please find attached
a drawing.
Please contact me if you have any questions.
John
--------
Europa mono Nr 192
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476434#476434
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/92009bf6_bad7_4862_8542_af9d6f50cdf0_270.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's m
uch lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.Tim
Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.It wouldn't be
difficult to weld one up?Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44@gmail
.com> wrote:
m>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 Al
l Europas
Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with a
luminium.=C2- The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100%
for petrol is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-p
sch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
>
> Hi Duncan
>
> as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
> Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when
> hopefully a more permanent solution is found, IMO if a hose designed
> for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not
fit for purpose,
> my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an
> original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | david park <dpark748(at)me.com> |
Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
Dave Park
> On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
>
> Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's m
uch lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
> Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
> It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
> Graham
>
>
> On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies wrote:
>
>
m>
>
> Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 A
ll Europas
>
>
> Hi Ivor
>
> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with a
luminium. The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for pe
trol is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
>
> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-
psch
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>
>
> On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
> >
> > Hi Duncan
> >
> > as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
> > Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when
> > hopefully a more permanent solution is found, IMO if a hose designed
> > for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s not
fit for purpose,
> > my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an
> > original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
>
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
-
> http://forums.matro - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> http://wiki.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
========
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
| From: | Danny <danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk> |
Hi All, I bought a aluminium elbow from Tim when my wife and I had a
tour of New Zealand, I think it was Febuary 2007. I have only used
Ethonal free mogas since my first flight in Febuary 2009. As you can see
from the pic the rubber connecters are perfect. Does this prove that the
problem is the use of ethonal moges and maybe avgas !!. I wonder if Tim
can produce more of these elbow.
Cheers Danny. G.c.e.r.i XS tri
On 16/12/2017 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow,
> it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding
> erosion etc.
> Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
> It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
> Graham
>
>
> On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies
> wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December
> 2017 All Europas
>
> >
>
> Hi Ivor
>
> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe
> with aluminium. The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed
> 100% for petrol is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead
> time.
>
> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>
>
> On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Duncan
> >
> > as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
> > Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when
> > hopefully a more permanent solution is found, IMO if a hose designed
> > for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then its not fit for purpose,
> > my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an
> > original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-; - MATRONICS WEB
> FORUMS -
> http://forums.matro - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> http://wiki.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contrib======================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk |
| Subject: | Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium
welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel
filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of
alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote:
> Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
>
> Dave Park
>
> On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
>
>> Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much
lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
>> Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
>> It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
>> Graham
>>
>> On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>> Sent: 15 December 2017 18:20
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All
Europas
>>
>>
>> Hi Ivor
>>
>> Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe with aluminium.
The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed 100% for petrol
is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
>>
>> https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch [1]
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
>>
November 02, 2017 - December 16, 2017
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-nn