Europa-Archive.digest.vol-oh
May 04, 2021 - June 14, 2021
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-oh
May 04, 2021 - June 14, 2021
But I've been informed that there's no such thing as ethanol free car petro
l such as Esso Synergy Supreme and other "super unleaded" brands in the who
le of Scotland and parts of Northern England, which all get their fuel from
the Grangemouth refinery regardless of brand name. From September this yea
r, all car petrol from Grangemouth will continue to have ethanol of at leas
t 5% and 10% in ordinary unleaded.
Furthermore a friend's Eurofox experienced partial engine failure after tak
e-off due to using Esso Synergy Supreme from a local garage, probably stale
fuel due to low sales turnover. He only just managed to get back onto the
runway unscathed! After flushing out the fuel system and filling with ordin
ary E5 unleaded, there's never been another missed beat in his engine.
So my question remains to be answered by EU pilots and particularly Europa
owners who have been using E10 for many years, as far as I know. Please let
me know if you've heard of any problems experienced by any pilot and/or Eu
ropa owner after using E10 petrol for a long time. Problems not only to do
with carburettor icing and vapour lock, but also the fuel tank, fuel lines
and electric pump. Thank you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501651#501651
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2021
Subject: Re: Charge warning light
OK so I went ahead and ordered a bandc regulator. I spoke to them about
it. It has the same mounting holes and footprint as the ducati VR.
It has an internal OVP. If the OVP trips then you cycle the generator.
This means I'm going to remove my current OVP which I hope should not be
too much of an issue.
I also am going to take the opportunity to change my fusible link to a 25A
fuze.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 5:36 AM Bud Yerly wrote:
> Will,
> Yes.
>
> B&C has dimensions on their website to check your particular aircraft bol
t
> pattern.
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> Get Outlook for Android
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 3, 2021 7:46:26 AM
> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: FW: Europa-List: Charge warning light
>
> So the bottom line is the symptoms suggest that my VR is failing?
>
> Is the bandc unit a straight drop in?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2021, 19:00 Bud Yerly wrote:
>
>
> Will,
>
> This is the common failure of an older voltage regulator:
>
> Most older tech regulator/rectifiers use a small incandescent lamp in the
> charge circuit warning.
>
> If the regulator and battery are putting out the same voltage, the lamp i
s
> out (12 volts on either side of the lamp).
>
> If the regulator or one of the rectifier diodes begins to die, the voltag
e
> difference begins to be different so the lamp glows faintly.
>
> If the regulator or the rectifier dies completely the warning light does
> not illuminate as the warning light circuit depends on regulator output
> circuitry. Your first indication is the battery low warning goes on or
> your volt meter starts to sag.
>
>
> Note: VRs are temperature sensitive. Try to keep them below 50C (130F)
> and if saturated at 70C (150F) or better, let them cool. This is a
> problem on a quick refuel and takeoff in the Florida summers with high am
p
> needs on top of the temperature. Heat is the killer of regulators.
>
>
> Other Regulators to consider:
>
> Nobody likes Ducati but they work if the amps are kept low and the temps
> are reasonable (mine lasted 10+ years). Modest price at $150-170 USD.
>
> In the US, Silent Hectic is harder to get except from a European
> partner/cohort. Works well. $250ish USD typically.
>
> Since we have a dynamo like Deutz and Kubota tractors, some have used
> their regulators. Cheap, $20-$50. Hi amp users may find a high failure
> rate. Problems are with temperature as these tend to be flimsy units but
> rugged for tractor use.
>
>
> Note: Jabiru uses a Kubota.
>
>
> B&C builds a very nice regulator for the Rotax. Has LED output and a
> proper warning system separate from the regulator circuit. Even
> overvoltage protection is built in. Works well with GRT, Dynon and
> Garmin systems. Van=99s uses them on their RV12s and others are mo
ving
> that way due to the high number of Dynon and Garmin users. It puts out
> 14.5 volts and is adjustable as is the low voltage warning which really
> helps gel cell and Lithium Ion battery users unlike the cheaper options.
> It is a step above what we are used to. The operational under hood heat
> max is in line with the others. Cost is $300ish.
>
>
> I=99ve attached a word doc I just researched last month when my Duc
ati VR
> went out on 12AY just prior to Sun =98n Fun.
>
>
> I=99ve got my spare Ducati on now but will go to the B&C to check i
t out
> this summer after I consider a ducting change to my firewall. I keep my
> TCU on the footwell and need to do some temperature checks under the hood
> to determine if I put my VR next to my TCU under the footwell cover. Thi
s
> cover has a built in fan and ducting with a timer to keep the TCU cool.
I
> figure, why not cool the VR along with it. I just have to see how hot
> the VR gets putting out power. The TCU never gets warm from operation.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *William Daniell
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 02, 2021 4:46 PM
> *To:* europa-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Charge warning light
>
>
> I have standard z 16
>
>
> I have a charge warning light and a Dynon efis and ems
>
>
> This morning the charge light stayed on for about 5 mins albeit glowing
> not lit. Normally it goes out within 1 min. The dynon said 13.8v and
6
> amps from start up and my battery charging amps were normal also.
>
>
> Does this mean anything apart from some kind of fault with the light?
> For example do these symptoms mean that my regulator about to give up?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Dave Disney" <davedisney(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 04, 2021
Reply for Griffo:
For information I'm in the UK.
I agree that having the fuel pump on will not prevent vapour lock, but having positive
pressure in the fuel system will help reduce the chance of it as any vapour
in the fuel line will be pushed through the fuel lines back to the tank.
I also believe that it helps starting especially when the engine is hot and the
risk of vapour lock is greater.
On the Vans RV12, the fuel pump comes on with the master switch, there is no separate
switch to turn off the pump, the only way to turn it of is to pull the
circuit breaker/fuse If you search on the Vans forums, you will learn that one
reason for having the pump on all the time is to help prevent vapour lock. Vans
consider the pump an expendable item as it's cheap to replace.
The downside to leaving it on all the time is that (without a fuel pressure gauge
as in my aircraft) you will not know if the mechanical pump has failed. This
is why I occasionally turn off the electric pump at a safe altitude to see if
the low fuel pressure light comes on which will indicate a problem with the
mechanical pump.
I'm interested to learn if anyone has a valid reason for not leaving the electric
pump on all the time.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501697#501697
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Charge warning light
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2021
Hi William
A few notes on AVC1:
** It's Nickle plated and conductive
** There are 2 grounds on it, I suggest you use both
** If you are not certain that you have Phosphor Bronze Fastons, at minimum replace
the two yellow AC wires with them
** If you by chance don't have a capacitor or the one you have is questionable,
B&C sells them
** You can read the install manual on line, you may need to get some stuff like
LED and or reset switch etc
Good luck
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501700#501700
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 04, 2021
Hi David D;
I have a fuel pressure gauge which gives some indication of fuel delivery health.
I use my auxiliary fuel pump, pre start, to "charge the system" Turn of before
engaging the starter. If you dont have to "drain" your electrical system with
unnecessary systems you will get a better chance of a "brisk" turn over & engine
start (same with a road vehicle, turn of all non essential electrics befor
engaging starter).
I briefly use my auxiliary pump again during warm up to check for significant
rise/fall in fuel line pressure - health of the system check.
Auxiliary pump on for take off & climb out to safe altitude.
I dont put my auxiliary pump on again, until down wind for a landing/or low level
pass. Pump is turned off when taxiing prior to engine shut down.
Your auxiliary pump is supposed to be a back up in the event of your main, usually
mechanical, pump failing in whole/part. It is routinely turned on, during
critical phases of flight, when an engine fuel starvation situation may result
in a crash. It is also there for cruise flight if the mechanical pump fails.
It is not and never has been a continual fuel supply mechanism.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501701#501701
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 04, 2021
Rotax 91 engines: Fuel vaporisation is usually the result of the heat from a hot
engine, low/nil air flow "boiling" fuel in the fuel line (s) that go from the
mechanical pump to the carburettors.
Boiling/vaporization of the fuel in these lines, is most likely to occur when a
hot engine is shut down. No air & fuel flow.
Keeping fuel running through these lines will allow "cooling" to take place.
Rotax have come up with a partial "fix". It is restricted "bleed" system where
fuel vapour and fuel can be vented back to the tank. This allows fresh cool fuel
to charge the system close to the carburettors (there can still be a brief
period of rough running as the hot gaseous fuel is passes through the carburettors
giving a sub optimal fuel/air mix).
Using your auxiliary fuel pump on the ground, to push the hot fuel/gas back to
the tank and replace it with fresh cool fuel, may certainly assist in speeding
the recovery from the fuel vaporisation state.
Using your auxiliary pump continuously will add nothing to your engines performance
but is likely to drain your wallet a but quicker.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501702#501702
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AVmap EFIS Ultra feedback please
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 04, 2021
I have an AvMap Ultra -
The swinging the compass part is a right royal pain in the back side.
As per the instructions. I turned on all flight instruments prior to commencing
the swing - all four cardinal points and the aircraft is supposed to be as near
to flight attitude as you can make it.
It works but may need recalibrating from time to time.
To be honest, I got mine more for the nice AH display - looks cool in the centre
of my panel. Be warned - the AH is a little slow to react to changes of attitude.
Other features are also useful but the display is so small I find I use my IPad
& GPS for such things as ground speed and other instruments for air speed and
climb/decent.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501703#501703
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AVmap EFIS Ultra feedback please
From: "CruisingEuropa" <jan_gonnissen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2021
Thanks Griffo - I heard swinging the compass can be challenging for the AVmap.
As you say, still a neat little instrument and I use a handheld Garmin for navigation.
Would be great to be able to use the AVmap's HSI with some precision.
Cheers. Jan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501708#501708
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: blue foam
From: "daaza22" <royledarren(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2021
hi everybody.
quick question where can i buy blue foam in the uk ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501711#501711
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Dave Disney" <davedisney(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 05, 2021
Hi Griffo,
I agree with most of what you say, especially about vapours returning through the
fuel return line to the tank if there are any in the system hence my comment
about assisting starting especially when hot. I think the restricted fuel return
line is in the build manual, so all Europa's should be fitted with it, I
know mine is.
I do leave mine on when starting, the pump only draws about 1.5 amps so shouldn't
affect starting too much, but I do agree that all electrics are best off when
starting.
The cost of replacement in the UK is about 40 for the Facet pump (about $80 Aus
?) which isn't a lot when amortised over the life of the pump - mine is still
going after 7 years in my ownership and there is no record of it having been
changed since build in 2001.
I guess it's just down to personal preference so until someone comes up with really
good reason not to do it, I'll be leaving mine 'on'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501718#501718
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 05, 2021
DD,
There is no really good reason for continually running your auxiliary pump, nor
is there a good reason for turning it off when not required, except for the
erlier point, that by leaving it on all the time, you may "mask" a failed main
pump.
Other than this, I see no strong reason for arguing either way.
Its just your argument for leaving it on is a bit weak.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501720#501720
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: blue foam
From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>
Date: May 06, 2021
How much do you need? Would the residuals from the Europa kit suffice? I expect
many of us have leftovers . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501724#501724
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>
Date: May 06, 2021
If i may add my own two-pennarth on this topic:-
It is a myth that particular brands of fuel in the UK always have the same mix
of additives - including ethanol content.
The forecourt owners (who might be a single fuel station or number of them dotted
around a region), are the ones who specify the mix that gets loaded at the
refinery (i know because i asked MRH Driving Retail Group - who operate several
forecourts in my area - about how they choose the fuel they sell). It's also
not uncommon to find a particular forecourt changing its offer and re-branding
from e.g. Shell to e.g. Jet.
So I suggest that if an Esso branded pump at a particular forecourt has a track
record of no ethanol, it is much more likely that its that way because of the
forecourt owners choices at that location than due to the brand being shown on
the pump.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501725#501725
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "clivesutton" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>
Date: May 06, 2021
If i may add my own two-pennarth on this topic:-
It is a myth that particular brands of fuel in the UK always have the same mix
of additives - including ethanol content.
The forecourt owners (who might be a single fuel station or number of them dotted
around a region), are the ones who specify the mix that gets loaded at the
refinery (i know because i asked MRH Driving Retail Group - who operate several
forecourts in my area - about how they choose the fuel they sell). It's also
not uncommon to find a particular forecourt changing its offer and re-branding
from e.g. Shell to e.g. Jet.
So I suggest that if an Esso branded pump at a particular forecourt has a track
record of no ethanol, it is much more likely that its that way because of the
forecourt owners choices at that location than due to the brand being shown on
the pump.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501726#501726
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Rick Moss" <Rkwmoss(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2021
Fuel point it which fuel vaporises is also very much a function of fuel pressure.
The electric pump pressurises all the fuel lines within the cowling, as opposed
to the mechanical pump which only affects the pipes from the pump to the
carbs; your fuel return line helps all the time that the engine is running, but
the electric pump can return vapour to liquid in a matter of a few moments when
turned on (can, not will!)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501738#501738
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: blue foam
Date: May 07, 2021
On 2021-05-05, at 16:00, daaza22 wrote:
> quick question where can i buy blue foam in the uk ?
Europa factory? . . .
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 07, 2021
Subject: Re: blue foam
Blue foam i believe is known as xps ...this is available at the big home
improvement stores here in the usa.
Can anyone confirm this?
I have used this for small project like air scoops and seat supports and it
certainly seems close to the europa supplied blue foam.
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 7, 2021, 05:36 Rowland Carson wrote:
> >
>
> On 2021-05-05, at 16:00, daaza22 wrote:
>
> > quick question where can i buy blue foam in the uk ?
>
>
> Europa factory? . . .
>
> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for European friends re E10 car fuel
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 07, 2021
Very true Rick,
We colonials have lot of experience with fuel vaporisation, temps of 45C + (in
the shade) are all too common.
In my opinion one of the Rotax 91's (carburettor variants), very few, design anomalies,
is the routing of fuel lines over the top of the engine. Not usually
a problem in flight, due to plenty of fuel/ air movement BUT definitely something
that requires good management, after engine shut down, subsequent start up,
taxi, run up, take off & climb out on a hot day.
Have no modifications (other than insulating/lagging for partial assistance) to
suggest - its all about awareness & management.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501743#501743
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Blue Foam
Date: May 07, 2021
I think this message should have gone to the list, not to me. I do not
have any need of blue foam, but thanks for the offer, Jim.
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: jimlawnn(at)hotmail.com
> Subject: Blue Foam
> Date: 7 May 2021 at 14:15:19 BST
> To: rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com
>
> Rowland - how much and what size pieces do you need ? I have some left
over from my build , generally small pieces which could be delivered to
an airfield near you, if they are of any use.
> Regards Jim Lawn
>
> Sent from my iPad
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Non-Aviation related, hmm actually anti-Aviation!
From: "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 07, 2021
Hi Group
No aeroplane work done this past Wednesday. Well at least not done at hangar!
Fdale home decided to "LEAK"!
Water in bathroom, hallway and kitchen? Couldn't EZ determine where it was coming
from. Ripped out sheetrock from under sink and behind dishwasher and found
malady.
Major job to rip out entire wall and replace all plumbing. Real jigsaw puzzle.
Went after pipes with 50 and 80 grit sandpaper, Carbide tipped scribe and Denatured
Alcohol. Then pre-bent expanded Aluminium with Fiberglass scrim and is self
adhesive to holes, then filled with JB KWIK Weld.
Had electric heater warm things up. Then put fillet of Flox in corner of junction
of pipe to female fitting flange. Then 4 BID. The BID goes completely over
the flanges. One flange is a hex and BID conformed perfectly.
The small pipe to right had a Copper pipe laying against it, so it was surgeon
skills working with an inspection mirror.
Pipe to left is about ~13" long and some of it is hidden behind wall, rot was only
~ 6" long but went full length from flange to flange.
Hoping this is a permanent fix.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgdsaSGyQjBD4WiGEiw?e=BxfRYd
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501755#501755
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeffrey Williams <jeffwill55(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: blue foam
Date: May 07, 2021
Will,
Yes, dense styrofoam is something you can get at a hardware or home
improvement store in the USA. Extruded polystyrene insulation (XPS) is
manufactured using a process of extrusion, and has a closed cell
structure. As an example, Dupont Styrofoam=84=A2 Insulation (Blue
Board) is a nonstructural, rigid board insulation manufactured of XPS
foam. Since it is insulating material for buildings, you can buy it in
bulk - truck (or lorry) loads if you=99d like.
All you need is some foam dense and rigid enough to hold the shape you
want, and to be smooth enough so the resulting fiberglass surface will
be smooth too.
XPS should work.
However, if you want, you can also get styrofoam from places like
Aircraft Spruce, but it is a bit pricey. They have large cell and small
cell versions of the stuff.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/building_materials/bm/menus/cm/f
oam.html
(They probably just buy it from Home Depot and mark up the
price.)
I would expect the folks at Aircraft Spruce could ship it to the UK, but
I don=99t know for sure.
For what it=99s worth, I have some leftover chunks of blue foam,
but I am in the USA.
Regards,
Jeff W.
> On May 7, 2021, at 6:38 AM, William Daniell
wrote:
>
> Blue foam i believe is known as xps ...this is available at the big
home improvement stores here in the usa.
>
> Can anyone confirm this?
>
> I have used this for small project like air scoops and seat supports
and it certainly seems close to the europa supplied blue foam.
>
> Will
> William Daniell
> +1 786 878 0246
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021, 05:36 Rowland Carson > wrote:
>
>
> On 2021-05-05, at 16:00, daaza22 > wrote:
>
> > quick question where can i buy blue foam in the uk ?
>
>
> Europa factory? . . .
>
> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> | >
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk Subject: Re: blue foam
From: "daaza22" <royledarren(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 08, 2021
thanks everybody for the help.
Hopefully the little I need can be kindly supplied by my inspector.
cheers Darren
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501763#501763
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: blue foam
From: "Martin Olliver" <martflynut(at)aol.com>
Date: May 08, 2021
In the UK I have bought from:
Hampshire Insulated Products
The Hangar
Thompsons Lane
Marwell
Winchester
SO211JY
TEL 01962777730
They can cut and make 3D shapes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501764#501764
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 08, 2021
Subject: Headset howl
A quite serious case of headset howl has suddenly afflicted N460.
The symptoms only occur after about 15-30 mins of flight and only with the
engine on.
Could this be related to my failing Voltage Regulator?
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Munford" <pmdental(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Idle adjustment
Date: May 09, 2021
Hi Everyone,
Advice on how to adjust the idle speed on my 912ULS please.
The engine is 4yrs since installation with about 80 hours running time.
Runs good as gold but recently noticed idle speed is up to 1800/1900 rpm
!
Do I adjust this by simply repositioning the throttle cable (quite
possibly stretched now) or can it be adjusted by a screw on the carb ?
Thankyou Paul Munford G-OVPM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idle adjustment
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 09, 2021
Hello Paul,
First I would suggest that you refer to Europa Mod.20 Throttle Closed Stop. If
I recall correctly, this mod is intended to prevent strain on the 2 throttle cables
by creating a physical barrier in the cockpit, on top of the tunnel and
at the rearward limit of travel of the throttle lever.
I deliberately made my cockpit throttle stop adjustable and also screwed back the
idle speed adjusters on the two carburettors so that they don't have any role
in adjusting idle speed. My adjuster is simply a penny washer with an eccentric
hole through which the rear screw holding down the slotted throttle guide
plate is fastened. To adjust idle speed, I slightly loosen the screw and rotate
the penny washer as needed to alter the rearward throttle limit, before locking
the screw again.
But you should check the balance of your two carburettors with some good device
like a CarbMate. Usually it can be seen that the two carburettors aren't idling
exactly the same, so if you want a slower idle then use the cable adjusters
where the cable outer sheaths meet the carburettors and take whichever carburettor
is "higher" down slightly. Or vice versa if you want a higher idle speed.
It can be a bit fiddly, but the end result should be that your carburettors are
synchronised and the idle speed is what is desired when the throttle lever in
the cockpit is fully back against the stop. Thus also no strain on the cables.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501796#501796
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Water Drain
From: "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk>
Date: May 09, 2021
Does anyone know if there is an alternative to Mod 33 water drain valves mod? For
what ever reason my aircraft has never had the mod done even though its been
run on Mogas. I want to add drain valves but not keen on Mod 33
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501799#501799
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Voltage regulator connection
From: "Paul M 383" <europaul383(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2021
Has anybody seen this voltage regulator connection issue? One of the yellow generator
connectors has clearly got hot and is too close to its slot in the plug.
It's definitely melted, not vibration or mechanical abrasion and looks like it's
simply too close to the edge of its slot in the plug.
How to avoid re-occurrence?
(Apologies for the first image - auto focus [Rolling Eyes] )
Many thanks in advance,
Paul M
XS Mono 912 ULS
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501802#501802
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125502_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125515_458.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125602_346.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Voltage regulator connection
Date: May 10, 2021
Most overheating at joints or connectors is due to contact resistance.
This could be a loose fit of the connector on the spade or poor crimp joint on
the wire. Might even be due to the connector spade going down the side of the
connector rather than between the tangs of the connector if its loose in the holder.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
> On 9 May 2021, at 20:47, Paul M 383 wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody seen this voltage regulator connection issue? One of the yellow generator
connectors has clearly got hot and is too close to its slot in the plug.
>
> It's definitely melted, not vibration or mechanical abrasion and looks like it's
simply too close to the edge of its slot in the plug.
>
> How to avoid re-occurrence?
>
> (Apologies for the first image - auto focus [Rolling Eyes] )
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Paul M
> XS Mono 912 ULS
> G-PLPM
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501802#501802
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125502_121.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125515_458.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125602_346.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Voltage regulator connection
Date: May 10, 2021
Hi Paul,
That is the common failure mode for that connection. I am not sure that the
black connector block adds anything to the security of the installation. It
is an easy way to connect all of the regulator wires in one go but it masks
the physical state of the spade terminals. I always check that each
individual terminal is secure after installation. In my current new build I
am considering leaving the black plastic bit off and simply protecting each
individual terminal with heat shrink insulation. This would enable a good
physical inspection of each terminal during routine checks.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Paul M 383
Sent: 09 May 2021 20:45
Subject: Europa-List: Voltage regulator connection
-->
Has anybody seen this voltage regulator connection issue? One of the yellow
generator connectors has clearly got hot and is too close to its slot in the
plug.
It's definitely melted, not vibration or mechanical abrasion and looks like
it's simply too close to the edge of its slot in the plug.
How to avoid re-occurrence?
(Apologies for the first image - auto focus [Rolling Eyes] )
Many thanks in advance,
Paul M
XS Mono 912 ULS
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501802#501802
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125502_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125515_458.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20210509_125602_346.jpg
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idle adjustment
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 10, 2021
Hi JonathanM;
I like the sound of your idle low speed stop - any chance of a photo or two.
On the carburettor balance - here is absolutely no need to go to the expense of
a "Carb Mate" any half decent motorcycle shop (or on line) will sell you a pair
of cheap vacuum gauges and the bits to adjust down the inlet pulses. Then
all you will need are two suitable lengths of tubing, so that you can monitor
the vacuum in each carbi, in the cockpit. Don't forget to disconnect the balance
tube befor making your readings Oh and do your static/manual adjustment
befor doing your pneumatic fine tuning. Simple as!!.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501829#501829
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 10, 2021
Maaate! - every aircraft should have some effective way of sampling the fuel (sump)
in the tank, not just for water but for other contaminants. Oh! & water in
fuel is not the sole concern of ULP , unleaded fuels in general or even ethanol
blends - water contamination can simply be from the diernal temperature range
& atmospheric moisture - fit the drains & do the sampling, befor every first
flight of the day.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501830#501830
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idle adjustment
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 10, 2021
Sorry that the aircraft's away for a while, being used by a friend elsewhere. A
photo wouldn't be much use, because it's up to each person to make a penny washer
into a gentle spiral / cam by filing the edge progressively nearer to the
washer hole, about halfway around the circumference.
It's trial and error, to suit the distance between the back of the throttle lever
and the aft bolt holding the throttle quadrant box in place. Another way to
do it might be to follow the instructions in Mod.20, making a plate as shown
but slotting the bolt hole to allow fore and aft movement of the plate.
My method with the penny washer is similar but on a smaller scale to the rotating
parking brake methods I've seen on a couple of Europa monos.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501832#501832
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Matt Dovey" <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk>
Date: May 10, 2021
Griffo thanks for the input mate. I know all that, I work on aircraft for a living.
I didnt build the plane unfortunately. If I had it would have had the drain
valves. Having had the tank outlets out recently i'm in no hurry to revisit
that nightmare. However if there is an alternative to Mod 33 then that may be
an option. The thing has been flying for 20 odd years without them. The mod is
"optional" if your running the thing on Avgas and mandatory (in the UK) if using
mogas! Never came across an aircraft without drains before.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501836#501836
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 10, 2021
Not sure what your unhappiness is with mod 33. It was done by builder on mine but
not with long pipes to the back. The drains are just slightly forward of the
tank, tri-gear, but use the essential hardware of Mod33.
Having just changed the aged rubbers sealing the outlets into the tank, replaced
with fuel proof silicon, I agree its not an easy area to work in.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 10 May 2021, at 16:10, Matt Dovey wrote:
>
>
> Griffo thanks for the input mate. I know all that, I work on aircraft for a living.
I didnt build the plane unfortunately. If I had it would have had the drain
valves. Having had the tank outlets out recently i'm in no hurry to revisit
that nightmare. However if there is an alternative to Mod 33 then that may
be an option. The thing has been flying for 20 odd years without them. The mod
is "optional" if your running the thing on Avgas and mandatory (in the UK) if
using mogas! Never came across an aircraft without drains before.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501836#501836
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Water Drain
Date: May 11, 2021
Matt,
Sorry I don't know you or your kit, but I have done my own Mod33 fuel drain
for years.
About 5 aircraft have a simple 90 degree fitting epoxied to the floor of th
e aft floor behind the flaps so it is easy to drain.
Make a pair of holes in the aft baggage bay area beyond the flap. Hole sho
uld fit a 1/2 inch socket for the Safeair drain.
Attach the Safeair to a 1/8" NPT 90 degree fitting. Brass or aluminum is O
K.
Grease your socket and insert into your sealed and prepared drain hole.
Place the 90 degree and drain assembly and glue in with Redux.
A variation is to make a ply plate for the 90 degree/drain assembly and re
dux the assembly to the plate then simply glue the plate into your prepped
holes. Very neat. Simply remove the Safeair and screw in a plug during pa
inting.
I have a street tee screwed into the two 90 degree brass fittings for my f
uel quantity experiment pictured below.
The orangish tube is my sight gauge which was added after the original buil
d. Today I pipe it into the Fuel Boss.
[cid:image003.jpg(at)01D745DA.D9DB3D50]
Most of my Trigear guys put the drains in the tank fuel boss.
Mono guys put them behind the wing.
Below is a typical under the belly fuel drain using a simple 1/8 NPT nipple
and a tee to make a drain and sight gauge line.
[A picture containing indoor, gear Description automatically generated]
There are as many variations as there are airplanes. Note I put my feed li
ne through the back and into the seat well where I install fuel filters wit
h quick disconnects.
I=92m lazy. I have a fuel drain pan and drain hole just in case there is a
leak.
[A picture containing indoor Description automatically generated]
Work with your inspector to see what works for you.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of Matt Dovey
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2021 1:21 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Water Drain
ilto:mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk>>
Does anyone know if there is an alternative to Mod 33 water drain valves mo
d? For what ever reason my aircraft has never had the mod done even though
its been run on Mogas. I want to add drain valves but not keen on Mod 33
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Voltage regulator connection
Date: May 11, 2021
Yep,
Happens with a regulator going bad and or a poor crimped connector or shorting
of the connector. Which ever it is, inspect and correct your wire first.
Consider buying a "spare" regulator. Each dynamo wire goes into the regulator
circuit (GG). If that particular diode is dying in the regulator it can get really
hot (short). A terrific read is the Contrails articles on the Ducati regulator.
Regulators like the Ducati are used in many different vehicles.
The main problem is too much draw. See my techniques article on the Europa Club
site (AMP Zealot) or at mine. The other problem is heat. If the regulator
is routinely above about 120F (50C) and the draw is high (over 15 amps) it's toast.
Cut your amps, monitor the regulator temperature.
Use of heat temperature indicating tapes is recommended. Or hook up a thermistor/sensor
for your Volt Meter for recording.
Here's hoping its just a poor crimp.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
https://www.customflightcreations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Paul M 383
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2021 3:45 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Voltage regulator connection
Has anybody seen this voltage regulator connection issue? One of the yellow generator
connectors has clearly got hot and is too close to its slot in the plug.
It's definitely melted, not vibration or mechanical abrasion and looks like it's
simply too close to the edge of its slot in the plug.
How to avoid re-occurrence?
(Apologies for the first image - auto focus [Rolling Eyes] )
Many thanks in advance,
Paul M
XS Mono 912 ULS
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D501802%23501802&data=04%7C01%7C%7C40ce17de636c4ce604a008d913237afb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637561865372894593%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=WNOyxTwm2dw2FVyum7LgSgDXfg%2F6mLEdSGR8F4QM%2BJw%3D&reserved=0
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idle adjustment
From: "budyerly(at)msn.com" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Date: May 10, 2021
There are photos of my throttle stops for both the 914 and it also works for the
912 series Europa Throttle box on the Europa Club website Builders section Bud
Yerly notes Throttle friction is the title.
Over the years I have done this mod and it is simple and it works.
Normally I set my idle to about 1600 hot on a warm day at the carb stop. Then
bump the throttle stop up to 1800 for winter and about 1700 ish for summer.
Warning, you may need to crack the throttle on the 912S a bit to get up quickly
to 2000 RPM otherwise it will shake like the dickens when on a cold start.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501850#501850
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headset howl
From: "budyerly(at)msn.com" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Date: May 10, 2021
Will,
Yes it can.
Simply turn off your alternator switch if connected to the C and see if the noise
stops.
If you are wired differently where the regulator is powered continuously and only
the bus is disconnected by the alternator switch, pull the C out of the regulator
or just unplug the whole regulator and check.
If the noise stops. You are out $170 bucks for a new one.
Bud
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501851#501851
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Hitchflight" <bobhitchcock(at)icloud.com>
Date: May 11, 2021
As usual Bud Yerly giving good inspiration.
Just a reminder directed at the newer U.K. audience members, all Mods and Mod
variations have to be approved by the LAA before execution. The EAA regime is
very different to the U.K. Many approaches are proven, but remember changes must
ultimately be compliant with the LAA permit. Your aircraft insurance cover
is based on a compliant aircraft.
If in doubt check with the Inspector.
Regards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501853#501853
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michel AUVRAY <mau05160(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2021
Subject: Re: Headset howl
Hello Bud, I have problems with my original Ducati regulator, in 2013 I
replaced it with the Silent hektik Regulator. It fulfilled its function and
after 5 years, alarms flash on my Dynon D100 + D120.
After checking, it appears that the Silent hektik regulator is out of
order? ... After various searches, I found the MOSFET regulator FH020AA. I
installed it on my 912S the alarms went off and all is well.
I am attaching the document for this regulator to you.
Michel AUVRAY
Europa 098, 145, CTSW
Le mar. 11 mai 2021 =C3- 04:02, budyerly(at)msn.com a =C3
=A9crit :
>
> Will,
> Yes it can.
> Simply turn off your alternator switch if connected to the C and see if
> the noise stops.
>
> If you are wired differently where the regulator is powered continuously
> and only the bus is disconnected by the alternator switch, pull the C out
> of the regulator or just unplug the whole regulator and check.
>
> If the noise stops. You are out $170 bucks for a new one.
>
> Bud
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501851#501851
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Munford" <pmdental(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Idle adjustments
Date: May 11, 2021
Hi,
Thankyou all for your help & excellent advice on getting my Rotax 912
ULS sorted.
Will be getting to work this weekend !
Paul Munford G-OVPM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2021
Subject: Re: Headset howl
Thanks bud
I will also try that if it comes back. I will unplug the whole thing as
my alt switch is down stream of the vr.
So having done a bit of interweb research lightspeed suggested turning down
the headset volume on the headset volume control if it has one (as opposed
the the control on the radio) and turning down the mic gain. This appears
to have cured the problem.
How permanent this will remains to be seen.
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, May 10, 2021, 21:02 budyerly(at)msn.com wrote:
>
> Will,
> Yes it can.
> Simply turn off your alternator switch if connected to the C and see if
> the noise stops.
>
> If you are wired differently where the regulator is powered continuously
> and only the bus is disconnected by the alternator switch, pull the C out
> of the regulator or just unplug the whole regulator and check.
>
> If the noise stops. You are out $170 bucks for a new one.
>
> Bud
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501851#501851
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headset howl
From: "budyerly(at)msn.com" <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Date: May 11, 2021
Michel,
Thank you for that. It looks very similar to the Multistrada 1200 series. I'm
not a semiconductor guy and prefer plug and play, but Shindengen is held in
high regard for their products and I'm sure it is a good piece of equipment.
I've looked at the Multistrada Type but I believe I will go to the B&C, although
my Ducati spare is working well (right now). In the US it is easier to get
service questions answered SOMETIMES with B&C as they back their equipment and
understand their limitations.
I heard that there is a Chinese knock off on many regulators that are very price
appealing but I tend to shy from them. No offense to the Chinese manufacturers,
but producing an electronic component for 20% of the cost of a European,
Japanese, US equivalent makes me wonder.
For those of you in the UK and other areas where modifications must be approved,
use caution. I find it interesting that you can change regulators but not add
a screw to your throttle for a stop without permission. So please consider
this post as information and discussion and not acceptable for action without
thorough research, appropriate permissions and guidance from certified sources
commensurate with your countries policies and procedures.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501864#501864
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Headset howl
Date: May 12, 2021
Will,
I must confess that I nearly threw away my headsets because of poor underst
anding of my own intercoms squelch/volume and headset volume relationship.
The volume knob on my headset was rolled up during storage in its pouch an
d I didn=92t notice. I lowered the volume on my Sigtronics but feedback an
d excessive noise was still present. I have no idea how I missed this simp
le headset volume verses intercom volume relationship during an hour flight
but I was hopping mad and ready to yank my panel when I simply lowered the
volume on the headset, readjusted the intercom volume and all was well. D
uh. I really should put a paint dab on my headset knob to prevent recurren
ce as I am getting more forgetful every day.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Headset howl
Thanks bud
I will also try that if it comes back. I will unplug the whole thing as m
y alt switch is down stream of the vr.
So having done a bit of interweb research lightspeed suggested turning down
the headset volume on the headset volume control if it has one (as opposed
the the control on the radio) and turning down the mic gain. This appear
s to have cured the problem.
How permanent this will remains to be seen.
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, May 10, 2021, 21:02 budyerly(at)msn.com > wrote:
m>" >
Will,
Yes it can.
Simply turn off your alternator switch if connected to the C and see if the
noise stops.
If you are wired differently where the regulator is powered continuously an
d only the bus is disconnected by the alternator switch, pull the C out of
the regulator or just unplug the whole regulator and check.
If the noise stops. You are out $170 bucks for a new one.
Bud
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 11, 2021
Terrific suggestions Bud.
I have never been a fan of the screw together reusable filters that so many like.
I find them to be Heavy, Prone to leaking, Messy, Expensive & Fragile
As an alternative, I suggest Hengst H103WK & H102WK
https://www.hengst.com/en/online-catalog/search/?catalog=eu
These filters area a relativly cheap gauze fuel filter, almost indestructible,
light weight & you can see any contamination build up. You can clean them (HP
air) but hardly worth while.
I have carried a couple of spares for years but never had the occasion to use them.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501866#501866
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 12, 2021
Griffo,
I've never had a problem with mine. Not even the quick disconnects or those plastic
filter elements.
As the dealer I kept mine stock for obvious reasons. I've never found that these
were delicate or easily broken unless dropped.
I've grown to like them. There is a technique, and with the setup I have, are
well protected.
My technique is to Loctite the fixed end of the tube, change the rubber rings,
tighten the filters down, add the spring per the manual,
Wrench down the ends just snug to note compression. Allow to set while I do the
other filter, then tighten one more time until I'm satisfied the glass is compressed
into the rubber.
After install and full of fuel, I check them again after a few hours to be sure
there are no leaks and press on.
Operationally, I check them after fueling for debris, (with a 914 I run a pump
and let the fuel run through the filters on both sides to check for debris), then
change them annually or when dirty (which is never).
$10 a year.
I use AvGas so, I get by longer than those using Jerry Cans and auto fuel.
I keep a spare in my cross country kit bag ready to go.
One of my clients put a metal polished camping mirror (piece of polished stainless)
under his filters so he can see the bottom of the filter easier. Nice touch.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Warning: This post is for discussion purposes only and not acceptable for action
without thorough research, appropriate permissions and guidance from certified
sources commensurate with your countries policies and procedures.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Griffo
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:13 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
Terrific suggestions Bud.
I have never been a fan of the screw together reusable filters that so many like.
I find them to be Heavy, Prone to leaking, Messy, Expensive & Fragile
As an alternative, I suggest Hengst H103WK & H102WK
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hengst.com%2Fen%2Fonline-catalog%2Fsearch%2F%3Fcatalog%3Deu&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cb1f2045577554472bd8308d914e3a798%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637563790260060101%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bhI%2FycYicFnOD%2B6OUOJrXS4tFLnGI3VtP%2BcETPFJe4U%3D&reserved=0
These filters area a relativly cheap gauze fuel filter, almost indestructible,
light weight & you can see any contamination build up. You can clean them (HP
air) but hardly worth while.
I have carried a couple of spares for years but never had the occasion to use them.
--------
46
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https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D501866%23501866&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cb1f2045577554472bd8308d914e3a798%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637563790260060101%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pdLTbvzuXNgJ0tJ8qlxpIPYY0B1cxkzJjH0IwEz7EUQ%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 11, 2021
Hi Bud,
You have certainly developed some good coping/management techniques with the screw
together filters BUT have you looked at the Hengst ones I have recommended?
Don't know about the USA but here in Australia, filter choice is not usually
seen as an something the aircraft maker has the last word on (they are a consumable
like oil or coolant choice). Further the Hengst filters are quite popular
in LSA class aircraft operated in Europe. Soooo much simpler to use than the
screw together type.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501868#501868
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 12, 2021
In the US we have similar filters to this and looking on line I am particularly
unimpressed with filters with just a straight nipple end. Although easier, inexpensive
and used by the auto industry with their new fuel clip seals, the ASTM
crowd in LSAs went to them but use common fuel line. I will stick to a metal
hose barbed end filter and continue on as I am.
You as the manufacturer of the aircraft can make those choices if your country
regulations and inspectors allow it.
A few years ago, a local A&P broke a similar plastic filter on an LSA by clamping
down the hose too hard. This plane had a hose replacement using fuel injection
hose, and being a hard hose, he clamped the crap out of it until it cracked.
He called me over to his shop and we had a talk about it, and with carb hose and
less pressure it seemed to hold just fine. The filter only costs a couple
of bucks but it was back to the store to get another. I think the plane was a
German LSA.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Griffo
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 10:56 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
Hi Bud,
You have certainly developed some good coping/management techniques with the screw
together filters BUT have you looked at the Hengst ones I have recommended?
Don't know about the USA but here in Australia, filter choice is not usually
seen as an something the aircraft maker has the last word on (they are a consumable
like oil or coolant choice). Further the Hengst filters are quite popular
in LSA class aircraft operated in Europe. Soooo much simpler to use than the
screw together type.
--------
46
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 12, 2021
All good comments Bud and I would never suggest you change from the "tried & true"
if you are happy to stay with it.
Just wanted to let you know, that in my opinion, a better alternative is now available.
A few points;
Your A&P should understand that the hose size must be correct for the fittings
and that the hose clamp is primarily for security (hose retention) not leak prevention.
Further, tightening hose clamps to the level suggest by your story can only lead
to damaged leaking hoses.
Don't know why the FI hoses would be so hard - I use exclusively Gates FI fuel
hose (made by good old Uncle Sam), in 12 years have never had a problem with
fitting or leaking.
I also noticed your photos show regular "garden" type hose clamps - my advise
- change to FI hose clamps (even if you dont use FI hose) for an even 360 degree
clamping pressure and much reduced chance of hose damage.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501880#501880
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 12, 2021
All good comments Bud and I would never suggest you change from the "tried & true"
if you are happy to stay with it.
Just wanted to let you know, that in my opinion, a better alternative is now available.
A few points;
Your A&P should understand that the hose size must be correct for the fittings
and that the hose clamp is primarily for security (hose retention) not leak prevention.
Further, tightening hose clamps to the level suggest by your story can only lead
to damaged leaking hoses.
Don't know why the FI hoses would be so hard - I use exclusively Gates FI fuel
hose (made by good old Uncle Sam), in 12 years have never had a problem with
fitting or leaking.
I also noticed your photos show regular "garden" type hose clamps - my advise
- change to FI hose clamps (even if you dont want to use FI hose)
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501881#501881
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 13, 2021
The gates hose was never the problem. The plastic filter was installed where the
hose immediately bent after the barb. Heck of a way to install, especially
with a plastic $2.00 filter. When he cranked down on the hose clamp he flexed
the hose and the filter snaped. The Breezer was a ELSA and we think it may
have been an owner operator installation issue as it was the first Breezer I had
seen come through here. No plastic part should ever be held in bending. That
was dumb.
As far as hose clamps go, we use what we call Breeze clamps rather than the garden
hose type. They look the same but are more robust and the screw doesn't protrude
into the hose. However, expediency sometimes dictates the automotive
supply shop "only has this type", and on the smaller vent hoses the cheap Chinese
knock off Breeze type clamps will get used when the client comes with them.
You are right, the cheap knock off open cut clamps when over tightened can
cut the hose, and the rubber can poke through the gap or they just break. Nasty.
I have moved on hose exchanges to the newer style silicone hose lined clamps
supplied by my hose vender. Easy to use, a bit heavy, protects the hose.
The name on them is AC Delco but I also see Ideal. They work fine on 5/16 hose
but not on 1/4 inch. Then the compression or Oetiker clamp comes in handy
for those.
Why do I choose not to like compression style clamps? Because I do not like to
use them in a low pressure carbureted system hose when it comes to removal.
They get stuck on the hose and are a pain to get off when the client overtightens
and the barb end gets buried in the hose. Especially when repositioning,
which occurs during the learning phase. It's like the clamps on the 11mm crossover
tube on the Rotax. Trying to find new hose that doesn't cost $10 a foot
plus shipping is a pain over here. So, I prefer the Ideal or Dayco lined clamps
for my main lines on a change out as I've gone to all 5/16 hose in the Europa
so only one fuel line is in the plane. Easier to buy/replace come hose change
time. I'm lazy.
Although many LSA manufacturers are going to the crimp type or Oetiker clamp in
production. From a production point of view I can see them, but I'm not excited
about the fact they are one time use. Probably because during fabrication
you take it apart and put it together a couple times. I can see the point that
if the clamp area is easily accessed, getting a tool in there is not a problem.
I've never had a leak with an Oetiker clamp, but then again, I'm not going
to use them on a fuel filter.
That is why I prefer to do my bosses now with all the joints on the end of the
boss and minimize the clamps. We can do that in the US on our own. Others have
to ask or get permission for a deviation. Shame.
On my filters I use the Colder products quick disconnects. I have a love/hate
relationship with them, but for 20 years they only require new O rings on the
male ends and have never leaked unless the O ring gets cut. That is why I also
hate them. The stupid locking collar will cut the O ring if care is not taken.
That way the hose clamps go on and stay on for 5 years on the quick disconnects.
Note, I'm on year 7 with the hoses in 12AY with the lined EPA lined R7 or better
carb hose. It is really holding up very well. It is still supple, no cracking
seen on the ends, and no checking at the clamps. So, the original 1997 Europa
supplied Ideal clamps of steel will probably corrode off before the hose
starts looking bad. Maybe next year I'll do a hose change. Maybe not?
I'm getting older and the hose change requirement must be met to comply with the
Rotax manual on my 914. Every one of my cooling hoses has the original style
compression clamps and frankly, in Florida they are corroding just a bit now
and I can't stand to look at them. Time to upgrade, probably spring clamps on
the cooling hoses I guess with all new engine and airframe hoses and clamps.
That's two to three days work at my pace now days.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Griffo
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:42 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
All good comments Bud and I would never suggest you change from the "tried & true"
if you are happy to stay with it.
Just wanted to let you know, that in my opinion, a better alternative is now available.
A few points;
Your A&P should understand that the hose size must be correct for the fittings
and that the hose clamp is primarily for security (hose retention) not leak prevention.
Further, tightening hose clamps to the level suggest by your story can only lead
to damaged leaking hoses.
Don't know why the FI hoses would be so hard - I use exclusively Gates FI fuel
hose (made by good old Uncle Sam), in 12 years have never had a problem with
fitting or leaking.
I also noticed your photos show regular "garden" type hose clamps - my advise
- change to FI hose clamps (even if you dont want to use FI hose)
--------
46
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https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D501881%23501881&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbb8bcdc1915d45fb4ab508d915a0d7a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637564602816568109%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OrG8wHmN2piKZpayw6tY6xnmJ2gfeUZVvBvz7iU8TRQ%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 12, 2021
Good to talk with you Bud,
I dont do so well with imperial/US measurements but can struggle through when I
must.
Back to the filters:
Most of the fuel filters of this "type" have poor quality casings, have pleated
"paper" type filters and many are opaque (making it impossible to asses contamination
build up)
The Hengst H102WK & H103WK are almost indestructible. Have gauze filters and clear
casings - they are more like $10 each Australian, if bought singly but you
can get them down to about $6 Au if purchased in quantity.
Like you, I was initially skeptical of the non "barbed" male hose fitting. However
using the right sized ID hose, cut to the correct length and supported, where
appropriate, has resulted in 12 years/900hrs of no leaks, no inadvertent
detachments.
One other benefit of the non barb, is that the possibility of tearing the inside
of the hose, when temporary removal is done, is eliminated. This then eliminates
those troublesome little bits of "rubber" that may appear in your float bowl.
The H103WK has a built in 90 degree bend, making tight applications that would
benefit from this a breeze.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501885#501885
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "michalm" <m.milos(at)me.com>
Date: May 12, 2021
Hello fellow Europa enthusiasts!
I'm trying to solve the oil cooling issue in my 912 ULS powered Classic. I have
the standard cooling setup with a 10 row oil cooler behind the port radiator
and slightly enlarged cowl outlets. On hot days (30 C) and loaded to max weight
I very quickly reach 120 C oil temp during a climb of just 2000 ft. If I let
it cruise a bit it will go down to 115 C within a few minutes, 110 C if I reach
cooler air higher up. The coolant stays below 90 C, except the climb phase
where it reaches around 100 C. So far after reading your past discussions I came
up with 2 possible solutions:
1. Moving the oil cooler below the spinner.
2. Installing an oil/water heat exchanger to supplement the oil cooler.
The first is a bit invasive and as I'm not the original builder I don't feel fully
confident to perform, yet. The second one is tempting but I thought about
trying a simpler solution first: exchanging the oil cooler for a larger model.
Mocal makes various sizes - the 13 row should fit without issues and perhaps
the 16 row version will fit as well (if it can clear the exhaust pipe).
Has anyone tried this approach? How effective this may be without enlarging the
cowl outlets? According to charts on Mocal website I should expect a reduction
of oil temp of around 8 C (16 row vs 10 row), but that assumes a free air flow
which is most likely not the case inside the cowling.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501888#501888
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
Date: May 13, 2021
Hi Michalm,
Best solution is to reposition the oil coolant below the spinner. An alterat
ion to the lower cowl with a inlet for the oil cooler. Easily done with comp
osite experience or get someone to do it for you. No bull nose required just
keep with the original profile. See photos. I have to place a barrier in wi
nter to keep the temperature up 110C Rotax prefers the engine to run at. Wor
ks very well.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Hom 03315166
> On 13/05/2021, at 18:53, michalm wrote:
>
>
> Hello fellow Europa enthusiasts!
>
> I'm trying to solve the oil cooling issue in my 912 ULS powered Classic. I
have the standard cooling setup with a 10 row oil cooler behind the port ra
diator and slightly enlarged cowl outlets. On hot days (30 C) and loaded to m
ax weight I very quickly reach 120 C oil temp during a climb of just 2000 ft
. If I let it cruise a bit it will go down to 115 C within a few minutes, 11
0 C if I reach cooler air higher up. The coolant stays below 90 C, except th
e climb phase where it reaches around 100 C. So far after reading your past d
iscussions I came up with 2 possible solutions:
> 1. Moving the oil cooler below the spinner.
> 2. Installing an oil/water heat exchanger to supplement the oil cooler.
>
> The first is a bit invasive and as I'm not the original builder I don't fe
el fully confident to perform, yet. The second one is tempting but I thought
about trying a simpler solution first: exchanging the oil cooler for a larg
er model. Mocal makes various sizes - the 13 row should fit without issues a
nd perhaps the 16 row version will fit as well (if it can clear the exhaust p
ipe).
>
> Has anyone tried this approach? How effective this may be without enlargin
g the cowl outlets? According to charts on Mocal website I should expect a r
eduction of oil temp of around 8 C (16 row vs 10 row), but that assumes a fr
ee air flow which is most likely not the case inside the cowling.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501888#501888
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 13, 2021
I still don't like plastic slip on filters. It is definitely better than l
awn mower filters. Sorry.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Get Outlook for Android
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Griffo
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 11:14:41 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
Good to talk with you Bud,
I dont do so well with imperial/US measurements but can struggle through wh
en I must.
Back to the filters:
Most of the fuel filters of this "type" have poor quality casings, have ple
ated "paper" type filters and many are opaque (making it impossible to asse
s contamination build up)
The Hengst H102WK & H103WK are almost indestructible. Have gauze filters an
d clear casings - they are more like $10 each Australian, if bought singly
but you can get them down to about $6 Au if purchased in quantity.
Like you, I was initially skeptical of the non "barbed" male hose fitting.
However using the right sized ID hose, cut to the correct length and suppo
rted, where appropriate, has resulted in 12 years/900hrs of no leaks, no in
advertent detachments.
One other benefit of the non barb, is that the possibility of tearing the i
nside of the hose, when temporary removal is done, is eliminated. This then
eliminates those troublesome little bits of "rubber" that may appear in yo
ur float bowl.
The H103WK has a built in 90 degree bend, making tight applications that wo
uld benefit from this a breeze.
--------
46
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 13, 2021
Just to expand the conversation and possibly take a lateral approach:
Most people assume you must have a heat exchanger (coolant radiator and oil coolers)
located at the front of the cowling, however I have seen several set ups
(not Europa) where the heat exchangers are located in non traditional positions,
such as above the engine, even in the warm exit air about to depart the cowling.
The message; dont assume as far forward as possible, is the only location.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501907#501907
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 13, 2021
Oh well "you can take a horse to water but cant make it drink"
Just as a final comment:
I first came across these filters being used, as prefilters, in Mercedes diesel
cars/vans. I later found that many of the European LSA class aircraft makers
also use them - quit a long way from a lawn mower.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501908#501908
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: May 13, 2021
Has anyone considered the wheel well ?
This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted
to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect
for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.
I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which
each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the
Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.
Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501910#501910
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 14, 2021
I am with Kingsley - subject to you having a large/deep enough vent
--------
46
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501915#501915
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Date: May 14, 2021
I tried that location and the temperature went up significantly when I ran
the engine. I switched to the side air vent and that was perfect.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of trevord
Sent: 14 May 2021 03:53
Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Has anyone considered the wheel well ?
This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have
inserted to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft,
so perfect for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.
I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s
which each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender
for the Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.
Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501910#501910
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>
Date: May 14, 2021
The repositioning of the oil rad is called the tropical chin mod, heres the link
for the UK LAA Mod
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/11362%20Chin.pdf
Hope this helps
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501918#501918
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz>
Date: May 14, 2021
Hi Griffo
Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse
to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down because
someone has failed to agree with you.
It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im sure
we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly
differently.
But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background
of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed.
I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum. Ultimately,
it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their
preference and do what they will with it.
There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer
and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and ideas
without judgement.
I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas / and
suggestions put down by inappropriate comments
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501919#501919
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 14, 2021
Fwiw, agree :-)
PeteZ
C-GNPZ
> On May 14, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Kelvin Weston wrote:
>
>
> Hi Griffo
> Im sure you did not mean to, but comments such as Oh well you can take a horse
to water but cant make it drink" tend to come across as a bit of a put down
because someone has failed to agree with you.
> It maybe you feel your own view / idea / suggestion is better than others, Im
sure we all do from time to time which is why we all build our Europas slightly
differently.
> But it is inappropriate to share that view on an open forum where the background
of other contributors is unknown and all views should be welcomed.
> I hope we can avoid getting into my view is better than yours on this forum.
Ultimately, it is for each reader to take away the information thats suits their
preference and do what they will with it.
> There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this forum and as a novice flyer
and builder, I have benefited enormously from people sharing their views and
ideas without judgement.
> I would hate others to stop sharing for fear of having their views / ideas /
and suggestions put down by inappropriate comments
>
> --------
> Regards
>
> Kelv Weston
> Kit 497
> kelv(at)kdweston.biz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501919#501919
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Twisted fuselage, or?
From: "John Kirkgaard" <john.kirkegaard(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2021
It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders.
I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different methods.
First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin bracket,
on both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same level.
Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pin
socket is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm
higher than the port side.
Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
And same for the foot wells.
So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rear
wing pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level between the
doors.
But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my question to
you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave the rudder approx.
10-11 mm out of plumb?
Thanking in advance for any reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501923#501923
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twisted fuselage, or?
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 14, 2021
Hello John,
Presumably this is the aircraft which you first saw in Canada? You've told me about
these problems before, if I remember correctly. Were it not for covid 19
considerations, it might be useful for me to come over and give you a hand. Failing
that, all that I can suggest is that perhaps we could have a Skype type
of discussion while you point a camera at the problems. I think I understand your
drawings, but it would be useful for me to see the problem areas "in real
time" which might be almost as good as being there in person.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501936#501936
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Water Drain
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 14, 2021
Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put forward
with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/adopted
as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fitting
- put down? - possibly.
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2021
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself
included. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I
would not have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo wrote:
>
> Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
>
> My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>
> >From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put
> forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily
> received/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
>
> Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower
> fitting - put down? - possibly.
>
> --------
> 46
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 14, 2021
Oh, knock it off guys.
Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don=92t ge
t hurt and neither should anyone else=92s. However, as in kindergarten, I
was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself and wait y
our turn until it is your turn.
I, like some others, just aren=92t always good at it. We may have strayed
from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/person/co
mrade wants or needs, and we don=92t want to get it without offending or mi
sleading someone.
Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep
it clean and don=92t abuse anyone else=92s. Techniques are just that, some
one=92s technique, not a procedure. Let=92s keep being cheerleaders for on
e another. Criticizing should be constructive and taken without offense.
Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and all the 20,000 compro
mises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently press your opinions
on to others as the only way.
I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we (
well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up
the forum. My apologies for dragging it out.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself i
ncluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I woul
d not have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo > wrote:
lto:scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>>
Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>From my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be put f
orward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily received/
adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower fi
tting - put down? - possibly.
--------
46
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
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pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Europa-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Christine Duane <DuaneFamly(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Water Drain
Date: May 14, 2021
Well I for one like being the fly on the wall to people=99s conversati
ons. Working months with Bud taught me a lot in the way of approaching a pro
blem. But I still learn from other=99s conversations. You never know w
hat you don=99t know until you know it.
Mike Duane
N377EA Europa XS conventional gear
Jabiru 3300 powered
Chandler, Arizona
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 14, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Oh, knock it off guys.
>
> Everyone has opinions, likes, wants and prejudices. My feelings don
=99t get hurt and neither should anyone else=99s. However, as in kind
ergarten, I was taught to stay in line, be nice, keep your hands to yourself
and wait your turn until it is your turn.
> I, like some others, just aren=99t always good at it. We may have s
trayed from the teaching of our past and one must try to get what he/she/per
son/comrade wants or needs, and we don=99t want to get it without offe
nding or misleading someone.
>
> Opinions/wants/prejudices are like butt holes, everyone has one, just keep
it clean and don=99t abuse anyone else=99s. Techniques are jus
t that, someone=99s technique, not a procedure. Let=99s keep be
ing cheerleaders for one another. Criticizing should be constructive and ta
ken without offense. Persistently pursue the optimum aircraft for you, and a
ll the 20,000 compromises one makes building an aircraft, not persistently p
ress your opinions on to others as the only way.
>
> I try to speak my piece, and Griffo and I should have gone off line as we (
well I) wandered around the plumbing issues of the Europa just clogging up t
he forum. My apologies for dragging it out.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of William Daniell
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 5:47 PM
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Water Drain
>
> Bud is enormously helpful to all of us and very generous with his time and
I very much respect his advice. He is the most experienced among us having
built many aircraft and guided many builders through the process, myself in
cluded. Without the encouragement of the forum and especially Bud I would n
ot have achieved my wonderful aircraft.
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 2:31 PM Griffo wrote:
>
> Hi Kelv/Peter Z,
>
> My apologies for any offence taken - certainly not intended.
>
> >=46rom my point of view, the saying, should be read as - ideas can be pu
t forward with the best of intentions/experience but not necessarily receive
d/adopted as the need/will to do so is not apparent.
>
> Bear in mind, that my suggestion has also been likened unto a lawn mower f
itting - put down? - possibly.
>
> --------
> 46
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501939#501939
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Date: May 15, 2021
Trevor,
My opinion is don't install it on the cowl itself as it is just another thing to
slow down cowl removal. Keep it out of direct sunlight if you can.
As for the wheel well:
In the event of a tire failure or God Forbid a gear up landing, damage is done
in the well.
I tend to stay away from directly behind the XS cowl exit. Just avoiding the cowl
exit air.
The wheel well is a nasty hole for dirt and debris. In my opinion it will be slightly
warmer than true outside air. (Disclaimer: I have no experience with the
actual temperatures in the wheel well.)
I've assisted clients in putting the OAT in several places.
1. My favorite is the inlet for the turbo duct. Radiator duct is a little too
warm unless right up front.
The inlet duct for the Turbo on the 914 metal shelf isn't bad. (Use caution and
note on the ground it gets pretty warm. Works fine in flight provided it is
on the outer most part of the duct and suspended in the stream.)
I have 12AY's OAT in the 914 inlet suspended on a short bolt/spacer held by an
Adel Clamp from the metal air dam. Works fine. (GRT and Blue Mtn.)
2. 912S located in the inlet attached to the airbox. (GRT) (Always make sure
you mount it for an easy airbox removal or engine removal to facilitate maintenance.)
3. Cockpit inlet ducts of course if there is room as folks have said. Nice and
close to the panel normally, so a short run. Dependent on inlet design. (Both
Dynon's)
4. In the starboard wing root back before the flap tube just forward of the flap
and behind the aft socket was popular for a while. We mounted it carefully
to allow for the aux tank. (Dynon and GRT)
5. In the closeout for the Stabilator. (Caution not to impact the stab of course.)
(Dynon)
6. Stuck out in the slipstream under the starboard seat was expedient for one
client who insisted on it in the cockpit. He only had NACA inlets to the cockpit.
Hard to wash the belly without hitting it though. (Dynon)
7. One guy has a ventilation tube plumbed from a NACA in the fin and piped into
the overhead. He had his in the tube there just as the NACA entered the fin.
(GRT)
8. Another was in the area below the starboard baggage bay inside but just aft
of the flap tube where I didn't think it would work well, but air came in the
flap slot and it actually worked OK. (GRT)
It is an experimental. If it doesn't work, plug the hole and move it. The only
way to tell is take separate temperatures. Use a handheld thermometer when
in flight placed in your cockpit inlet to check your OAT placement for accuracy.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of trevord
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 10:53 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
Has anyone considered the wheel well ?
This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted
to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect
for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.
I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which
each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the
Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.
Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 14, 2021
To check your OAT location/reading; try obtaining one of those self contained digital
indoor/outdoor thermometers or a fridge one.
They usually come with a long lead for the outdoor thermocouple.
Use a bit of double sided tape, to mount the "head/readout end in the cockpit.
Gap or 100 mph tape to temporarily secure the external lead and thermocouple in
the desired position.
Works a treat - have even used one to check carburettor inlet temperatures.
--------
46
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501951#501951
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: May 15, 2021
Thanks Bud and Griffo - very much appreciated.
All points taken -
Sometimes it is really nice to think of lots of options...
Sometimes you just want to know the correct way to do something - ha
I have THREE OAT sensors to mount (two AV30s and a Kanardia airspeed indicator
with TAS option) so I am thinking that I will just follow Buds option 1 and mount
them on a bracket in front of the air inlet filter.
One thing I have noticed on this forum, is that a "picture really is worth a thousand
words" Like most, I am an amateur aircraft builder so sometimes the terms
used I have to look up and then try to work out what the description means,
whereas a photo you get an immediate ah-ha moment - provided you can see enough
of the aircraft to work out where it is of course !
Thanks again for the input - much appreciated.
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501952#501952
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk>
Subject: Twisted fuselage, or?
Date: May 15, 2021
Hi John
As every aircraft is hand made I would expect there to be minor variances on just
about every single aircraft.
Changing the rear wing pin sockets is a big process particularly as it is attached
to the internal cross tube which was added to increase the gross weight. MOD
52. I'd leave well alone and see how it flies.
Other members with much more experience may be able to give a better reply such
as Bud Yearly.
Kind Regards
Steve Ivell
Mob: 07971 128842
E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
Sent: 14 May 2021 13:49
Subject: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or?
-->
It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders.
I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different methods.
First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin bracket, on
both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same level.
Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pin socket
is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm higher
than the port side.
Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
And same for the foot wells.
So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rear wing
pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level between the doors.
But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my question to
you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave the rudder approx.
10-11 mm out of plumb?
Thanking in advance for any reply.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501923#501923
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5202_275.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Twisted fuselage, or?
Date: May 15, 2021
Steve and John,
Sorry I missed your post John.
Perhaps we should go off line to get into the nitty gritty. Many times it is how
we level and how much can we fudge.
I'd like to know some history on your build, Classic/XS then discuss. Email:
budyerly(at)msn.com
Leveling is a process.
I use a piece of aluminum angle and it on the wing spar bolts out of the cockpit
bulkhead and then set my 2 foot digital level on the angle.
To compare, I set the digital level on the stab tube facing forward. Don't flip
the level, it will most likely be slightly different.
If the wing pins and stab tube are level. That is great.
It is not uncommon to get the top on slightly askew.
If the two wing pins and stab tubes are level within .5 degrees on a fully complete
aircraft, I have to accept that.
In the build, once cockpit module is set, I level to the wing pins in the back
seat bulkhead. I then set my stab tube. The fuselage is flexible and once the
tube is set it is necessary to use blocking/timbers to set the stab and wing
pins dead even.
Then put the top on and drop a plumb bob down the tail post. Cleco the top in place
to get the tail vertical to the wings and stab tube. With the tailplanes
blocked up, pull the clecos and glue the top up. Put the top on and I screw
it down as you can read in my techniques area.
On a salvaged Classic Kit to straighten up the plane (my 12AY was one of these)
I replaced my stab tub bearings and releveled the tubes to the wing pins.
On the Classic foam fin, it is tough to do but essentially, I cut the fin off carefully,
then rebuild. It sounds awful but not much more than a couple days
and a lot of dust.
Then glue it up. Tape the joint line again and fill, fill, fill.
The XS is a pain. There are remedies but I'm afraid all are somewhat painful.
Again, it comes down to how you measure. Do I care if the area between the doors
at the top is slightly off? Not really. People don't notice that. They notice
when the fin is leaning in comparison to the wings and tailplane.
Email me direct and we'll hopefully find an acceptable solution.
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Steve Ivell
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2021 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or?
Hi John
As every aircraft is hand made I would expect there to be minor variances on just
about every single aircraft.
Changing the rear wing pin sockets is a big process particularly as it is attached
to the internal cross tube which was added to increase the gross weight. MOD
52. I'd leave well alone and see how it flies.
Other members with much more experience may be able to give a better reply such
as Bud Yearly.
Kind Regards
Steve Ivell
Mob: 07971 128842
E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
Sent: 14 May 2021 13:49
Subject: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or?
-->
It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders.
I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different methods.
First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin bracket, on
both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same level.
Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pin socket
is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm higher
than the port side.
Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
And same for the foot wells.
So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rear wing
pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level between the doors.
But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my question to
you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave the rudder approx.
10-11 mm out of plumb?
Thanking in advance for any reply.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D501923%23501923&data=04%7C01%7C%7Caf4a62f5b0f84f5d2b3e08d917888978%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637566697452585737%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bKNogrLOP9yd4%2FvetGVRHdHyhnUS7Z7uWvRClXF7RCI%3D&reserved=0
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Larger oil cooler - Classic
Date: May 15, 2021
My two cents.
My original solution was to install the original oil cooler under the spinner without
a chin scoop.
The client made no attempt to duct out the bottom. In a test it was fine so he
flew like that for years until selling the plane.
It worked better than behind the glycol cooler. The LAA mod is better as it allows
for more room under the muffler for proper ducting.
In "Cooling 102" for the Jabiru, I show a duct arrangement, I've had excellent
results making the climb oil temps behave. A bit cool on cruise but 180 F in
summer at 7500 feet is not unacceptable. It runs too cool in the winter without
a plate on the front or better yet a cowl flap to control oil temp. Same idea
can work in the Classic, but it is tight depending on your muffler arrangement.
The same technique is used in the LAA mod for the inlet.
Another thought:
Creighton Smith (80 HP Classic) (crouton(at)well.com) uses a Lenovo glycol to oil
cooler. He recommends the larger one. It plumbs into the glycol cooler 1 inch
hose and oil lines and lies on the top of the engine in his Classic Mono.
Not very heavy either. No cowl cutting.
Oil and glycol temps run very similar and warm up is faster. On the hottest days,
he will cruise climb at 90 Kts for ideal temps in the climb during summer.
At high altitude cruise conditions, everything is steady about 200 ish Fahrenheit
.
His cowl exit is wider than usual to get better cooling in the Key West Florida
summers. He cut off the third leg of the original Classic muffler and put on
a single pipe exit to reduce back pressure on his 80 HP Rotax.
Winter is the hard nut to crack in aircraft. His was no different. He uses tape
to block his gills on the top cowl, tape across the radiators, and an in-flight
adjustable plate across the cowl exit to block his air exit to try to keep
it warm enough when temps are below freezing on start up and terribly cold at
altitude when he is flying in Canada. You may wish to talk to him and get real
data not just vague numbers.
Talk to your inspector and make sure your country rules allow modifications. Talk
to real users who have tried to solve the same issues. If you are in a hot
climate, or are only a summer flier it makes a difference on what approach you
take.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of michalm
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 2:48 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Larger oil cooler - Classic
Hello fellow Europa enthusiasts!
I'm trying to solve the oil cooling issue in my 912 ULS powered Classic. I have
the standard cooling setup with a 10 row oil cooler behind the port radiator
and slightly enlarged cowl outlets. On hot days (30 C) and loaded to max weight
I very quickly reach 120 C oil temp during a climb of just 2000 ft. If I let
it cruise a bit it will go down to 115 C within a few minutes, 110 C if I reach
cooler air higher up. The coolant stays below 90 C, except the climb phase
where it reaches around 100 C. So far after reading your past discussions I came
up with 2 possible solutions:
1. Moving the oil cooler below the spinner.
2. Installing an oil/water heat exchanger to supplement the oil cooler.
The first is a bit invasive and as I'm not the original builder I don't feel fully
confident to perform, yet. The second one is tempting but I thought about
trying a simpler solution first: exchanging the oil cooler for a larger model.
Mocal makes various sizes - the 13 row should fit without issues and perhaps
the 16 row version will fit as well (if it can clear the exhaust pipe).
Has anyone tried this approach? How effective this may be without enlarging the
cowl outlets? According to charts on Mocal website I should expect a reduction
of oil temp of around 8 C (16 row vs 10 row), but that assumes a free air flow
which is most likely not the case inside the cowling.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Twisted fuselage, or?
Steve. It doesn't matter too much what the level of the lift pin sockets
are. What matters is the angle of incidence of the wings and also that
the lift pins are securely fixed into the alloy plates embedded in the
wing roots. Before contemplating moving anything you should measure the
angle of incidence of both wings. (method in the builders' manual). They
may be identical whilst the placing of the lift pins and lift pin
sockets are not precisely the same in relation to the fuselage. The
latter probably doesn't matter very much as long as the positioning of
the lift pins is mot too far from the centre of those alloy plates. The
rear lift pin socket should have been positioned married up with the
previously fixed wing pin with the wings checked as having equal AOI.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-05-15 10:57, Steve Ivell wrote:
>
>
> Hi John
>
> As every aircraft is hand made I would expect there to be minor
> variances on just about every single aircraft.
>
> Changing the rear wing pin sockets is a big process particularly as it
> is attached to the internal cross tube which was added to increase the
> gross weight. MOD 52. I'd leave well alone and see how it flies.
>
> Other members with much more experience may be able to give a better
> reply such as Bud Yearly.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Steve Ivell
> Mob: 07971 128842
> E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
> Sent: 14 May 2021 13:49
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or?
>
> -->
>
> It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow
> builders.
>
> I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
> Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different
> methods.
>
> First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
> Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin
> bracket, on both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
> The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same
> level.
>
> Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing
> pin socket is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
>
> The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm
> higher than the port side.
>
> Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
> And same for the foot wells.
>
> So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the
> rear wing pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in
> level between the doors.
>
> But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my
> question to you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and
> leave the rudder approx. 10-11 mm out of plumb?
> Thanking in advance for any reply.
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501923#501923
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5202_275.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 15, 2021
Subject: Re: Twisted fuselage, or?
My tail is 1cm lower on one side due i think to fuse twist despite
measuring everything about a million times. It doesnt affect the flying
characteristics.
So it happens...
Id echo david's comments. Maybe if your fuse is tilted as it were it
doesnt matter provided the wings are the same incidence and structurally
sound.
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sat, May 15, 2021, 11:16 wrote:
> Steve. It doesn=99t matter too much what the level of the lift pin
sockets
> are. What matters is the angle of incidence of the wings and also that th
e
> lift pins are securely fixed into the alloy plates embedded in the wing
> roots. Before contemplating moving anything you should measure the angle
of
> incidence of both wings. (method in the builders=99 manual). They m
ay be
> identical whilst the placing of the lift pins and lift pin sockets are no
t
> precisely the same in relation to the fuselage. The latter probably doesn
=99t
> matter very much as long as the positioning of the lift pins is mot too f
ar
> from the centre of those alloy plates. The rear lift pin socket should ha
ve
> been positioned married up with the previously fixed wing pin with the
> wings checked as having equal AOI. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
>
> On 2021-05-15 10:57, Steve Ivell wrote:
>
k
> >
>
> Hi John
>
> As every aircraft is hand made I would expect there to be minor variances
> on just about every single aircraft.
>
> Changing the rear wing pin sockets is a big process particularly as it is
> attached to the internal cross tube which was added to increase the gross
> weight. MOD 52. I'd leave well alone and see how it flies.
>
> Other members with much more experience may be able to give a better repl
y
> such as Bud Yearly.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Steve Ivell
> Mob: 07971 128842
> E-mail: steveivell(at)pestproof.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
> Sent: 14 May 2021 13:49
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Twisted fuselage, or?
>
> -->
>
> It looks like I will need some very good advice from you fellow builders.
>
> I have measured the fixtures and torque tubes on my Europa a few times.
> Unfortunately I come to the same result in spite of using different
> methods.
>
> First I level up the fuselage making it 100% level in both directions.
> Then I measure down to the center of the pin hole forward wing pin
> bracket, on both sides. Using a horizontal laser-line.
> The elevation of the two wing fixings are found to be in exactly same
> level.
>
> Then measuring the level of the rear fixings shows that starboard wing pi
n
> socket is sitting 8 mm higher than the port one.
>
> The measuring the Flap tube I find that the Starboard side is also 9 mm
> higher than the port side.
>
> Going to the Tail plane Torque Tube I find the same picture there.
> And same for the foot wells.
>
> So the solution seems to be quite forward: change the position of the rea
r
> wing pin sockets, and ignore, that the fuselage will not be in level
> between the doors.
>
> But... During all measuring, the rudder is absolutely plumb. And my
> question to you guys: what will happen if I correct everything and leave
> the rudder approx. 10-11 mm out of plumb?
> Thanking in advance for any reply.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501923#501923
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5202_275bsp; -->
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5202_275.jpg>
> http://www.matronics.com/Nav===============
========
> http://www.matronic==================
=
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tool for Mod 71 - Nose gear leg change bungee with springs
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: May 16, 2021
Hello,
The club is supposed to have a tool to assist with the implementation of Mod 71.
Has anybody seen it or know of its whereabouts?
Photo attached as a memory jogger.
We have a member who wishes to use it - please contact me asap if you have any
information.
Regards
John Wighton
mods(at)theeuropaclub.org
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501963#501963
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mod_71_tool_122.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "michalm" <m.milos(at)me.com>
Date: May 17, 2021
Tim, your modification looks interesting and not very intrusive. Thanks for the
photo.
Bud, thank you for your detailed comments.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501980#501980
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 18, 2021
I purchased a Classic recently here in Australia; it gets hot here in summer...
really hot... the previous owner was experiencing higher than comfortable oil
temperatures with the 912UL; especially while waiting for traffic during taxi
and climb out; so he fitted an additional inline cooler off a 2001 BMW/Mercedes
and mounted it to the firewall... short story, it worked, and was a simple
solution with ample room and airflow to provide results... just ensure the additional
oil lines are sufficiently protected from exhaust headers and muffler
heat.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501995#501995
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FEA Europa Tests
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 18, 2021
Somebody recently mentioned there are Finite Analysis test results available for
the Europa on the LAA website, however I cannot find any such information...
Can anyone confirm this information actually exists?
Thanks all[/b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501996#501996
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 18, 2021
Hi Area-51 - As I said, the location of heat exchange units, need not be in the
oh so conventional, forward location.
My last aircraft had the oil cooler mounted, at a right angle, low on the firewall,
in the exit air from cowling - worked very well.
Did you purchase 19-4293?
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501997#501997
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 18, 2021
Hi Griffo, yes, now custodian of John Bakers build and undertaking some improvements,
starting with Mod77... there will be more improvements which I will post
once theyre proven.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502007#502007
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 18, 2021
Very far from being knowledgeable on Mod 77 (Europa in general) - just had a quick
read through Mod 77- does not appear to be applicable to the Europa Classic
- your aircraft?
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502008#502008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FEA Europa Tests
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: May 19, 2021
Dear Area 51,
As you will know (you don't exist according to the US Govt until recently), that
some things are virtual. However, I am aware of some original records (for
the Europa and XS type approval) at the LAA and there may well be copies of our
own stress analysis (inc FE analysis) and tests (dating back to the late 90's
to date).
David Stanbridge stated (at the Europa Tech Talk on 22 April 2021) that the BRS
Mod would be stressed and submitted to the LAA on 3rd May. He also stated that
the MTOW Mod to 1450lbs would be submitted on 21 May 2021 (this week).
Maybe this is the FE/test data you refer to?
It is really great that Europa is assisting the wider Europa community, David Stanbridge
also stated that their 3D scanned external skin geometry files would
be shared. This is great for those making Xplane models and also for the Europa
Club, as it will make the documentation of future mods much clearer with the
ability to use reference data for stress calcs etc. that interface with the
OML.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502014#502014
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic
From: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>
Date: May 19, 2021
My apologies Area 51 - it seems that if your Europa Classic has already had the
the Mod 43 tail wheel upgrade, your aircraft may indeed benefit from Mod 77
--------
46
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502015#502015
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FEA Europa Tests
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2021
Thanks for the clarity there John; much appreciated... looking forward to kitting
the Europa out with a Williams turbine and Garmin G5000 in X-Plane and see
what happens joining cross wind into Bangkok at Mach 0.8!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502016#502016
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tool for Mod 71 - Nose gear leg change bungee with springs
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: May 20, 2021
The tool has been found!
Thank you.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502020#502020
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Europa Club VSWR Meter
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: May 20, 2021
Rowland,
Apologies for the delay in responding. Your offer is most welcome.
I will email you separately for details.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502021#502021
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Noseleg assembly NG01
From: "flyingphil2" <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2021
A bit of a random question.
I have a noseleg assembly - NG01 (see the rear part of this in the attached image).
Should I be able to disassemble this by sliding the sub assembly off the
main tube or is this designed to be a friction fit and unmoveable without great
effort?
I'm concerned that there is corrosion between the outer noseleg tube and inner
sleeves of the rear sub assembly, which is why I can't separate them to check,
but maybe it's not designed to come apart?
Thanks,
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502038#502038
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0863_145.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0863_101.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Noseleg assembly NG01
From: "flyingphil2" <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2021
A bit of a random question.
I have a noseleg assembly - NG01 (see the rear part of this in the attached image).
Should I be able to disassemble this by sliding the sub assembly off the
main tube or is this designed to be a friction fit and unmoveable without great
effort?
I'm concerned that there is corrosion between the outer noseleg tube and inner
sleeves of the rear sub assembly, which is why I can't separate them to check,
but maybe it's not designed to come apart?
Thanks,
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502039#502039
Attachments:
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From: Peter Rees <peter.rees01(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Noseleg assembly NG01
Date: May 24, 2021
If youre talking about the leg and the articulating frame, they should be a good
fit with loctite to hold them together (from recent experience of replacing
both on HI).
> On 24 May 2021, at 15:21, flyingphil2 wrote:
>
>
> A bit of a random question.
>
> I have a noseleg assembly - NG01 (see the rear part of this in the attached image).
Should I be able to disassemble this by sliding the sub assembly off the
main tube or is this designed to be a friction fit and unmoveable without great
effort?
>
> I'm concerned that there is corrosion between the outer noseleg tube and inner
sleeves of the rear sub assembly, which is why I can't separate them to check,
but maybe it's not designed to come apart?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502039#502039
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
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> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0863_620.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: UMA RPM gauge with Rotax 914
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: May 26, 2021
Thank you Ron that is all very helpful.
Installed wiring as per your information - we will see in many months if this works
!
Best wishes all
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
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Subject: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 2021
Hello dear Europa forum members,
First let me say I hit the 40hrs mark in my monowheel and so far its flying great.
I will add though that learning to land the monowheel (in asphalt) has been
a huge challenge. I can do perfect landings in gentle conditions but when not
so gentle I am still quite apprehensive. But I admit I wasn't an experienced
tailwheel pilot to start with and it just took a bit of time to get up to speed
on the proper techniques to fly a TW aircraft, set aside the monowheel nuances.
But I am getting there and haven't broken anything (yet).
Now to the old subject of vents. First a little rant: Why in the world didn't Europa
tell us where to put, in detail, a simple NACA vent? Yes I know, because
us Europa builders are "The Few and The Brave" :) I intently read Bud Yerly's
comments on vents which, as always very educational, but I really don't want
to turn the installation of a vent into an experiment and poke 5 holes into my
fuselage before I find a proper location for it. End of rant.
Now, I know a lot of people liked the ultimate vent but not sure if the new version
is currently available and not sure I want to spend the money for such nice
vent (maybe I should). In any case I think that a design for a simple NACA
vent, even if not ideal or ultimate, should be available for those of us with
no pockets left (or sewn shut by our significant other).
With that said, can I please get some feedback on those who have NACA vents that
work well? I really could use detailed location and design dimensions. I also
could use feedback on how you dealt with the thick(er) fuselage sandwich and
the scoop LE lip.
I want to follow Buds advice to not place it in the chord line but higher. A nice
place would be right in the fuselage seam line but I think it would interfere
with the removal of the cockpit module. Since my interior is already painted
(yes, I know, big mistake) I would like to minimize how much I bugger up the
interior surface so just making the NACA cutout, carving the foam off the edge,
filling with flox and bonding a painted scoop inside with adhesive on its own
flanges would be a clean solution. The exterior is still unpainted so no harm
messing with that side of the fuselage wall.
Thanks for the help.
Chris
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Subject: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "Mallard" <james(at)kingdom.ie>
Date: May 27, 2021
Has anyone on the forum De-Coupled the Flaps & Outriggers on an XS Monowheel?
If yes, can it be done after the aircraft has been built?
If yes, what is involved?
Thanks in advance
James
--------
Seat of my pants
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Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 2021
This is an interesting topic which I am also interested.
My interest is in that I am of the opinion that the monowheel could become easier
to land in gusty or crosswind conditions if the flaps could be decoupled from
the gear. How many airplanes have you flown out there where they recommend
leaving full flaps when dealing with windy conditions?
Now, in fairness to the design, I am very new to the monowheel and still learning.
I may find that as I gain more experience it becomes more controllable during
landing in such conditions. My issue is not directional control, it is that
when the wind is gusty I can't make the airplane stay on the ground once I land.
The combination of a light airplane with lots of lift and full flaps makes
it want to get up in the air again even if speed is low.
One thing to keep in mind though is that the flaps are only down 26 or so degrees
so it's not too extreme. Seems enough though to give you a few nice scares
when it gets back in the air when you really really slow. At the very least it's
annoying.
I guess one way to achieve that is to fix them in the down position but that's
so ugly.
I think I saw a picture of a monowheel out there that has them decoupled.
Chris
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Date: May 27, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Chris, Two suggestions to avoid bouncing: firstly hold off until the
speed has decayed enough that you touch down tail wheel first.
Effectively avoid putting the wheel on the ground, holding off just off
the ground until the plane lands itself. If you touch down too fast the
AOI is inevitably such that you touch main wheel first and you cannot
avoid a bounce. Secondly if you have a reasonable amount of runway to
play with you can touch down with the throttle slightly open and shut it
at the point of touch down. I prefer the first of these approaches but
it does take a while to get really comfortable with it. If you do
decouple the flaps and gear, you have one extra thing to get wrong and
will add considerably to your chances of landing wheels up when you find
yourself stressed or distracted.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-05-27 18:54, n7188u wrote:
>
> This is an interesting topic which I am also interested.
>
> My interest is in that I am of the opinion that the monowheel could
> become easier to land in gusty or crosswind conditions if the flaps
> could be decoupled from the gear. How many airplanes have you flown out
> there where they recommend leaving full flaps when dealing with windy
> conditions?
>
> Now, in fairness to the design, I am very new to the monowheel and
> still learning. I may find that as I gain more experience it becomes
> more controllable during landing in such conditions. My issue is not
> directional control, it is that when the wind is gusty I can't make the
> airplane stay on the ground once I land. The combination of a light
> airplane with lots of lift and full flaps makes it want to get up in
> the air again even if speed is low.
>
> One thing to keep in mind though is that the flaps are only down 26 or
> so degrees so it's not too extreme. Seems enough though to give you a
> few nice scares when it gets back in the air when you really really
> slow. At the very least it's annoying.
>
> I guess one way to achieve that is to fix them in the down position but
> that's so ugly.
>
> I think I saw a picture of a monowheel out there that has them
> decoupled.
>
> Chris
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502072#502072
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "Martin Olliver" <martflynut(at)aol.com>
Date: May 27, 2021
Hi Chris.
My thoughts on vents.
In My first Europa I fitted the
"Ultimate Ventilator" They worked very well and as the vent opens into the airflow
you can fit it where you like within reason. Ultimate Ventilator went out
of business.. However Trevor Poulter has produced a far superior product. I would
recommend you buy a set. Information on them is on the Europa Club web site.
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Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 2021
Thanks for the reply.
I would inquire but the Europa Club web site says "Following a successful initial
run of 20, a further batch is being considered, subject to interest." so it
kind of sounds like it's not available right now. But I haven't really email
to ask.
But are NACA scoops really that bad in the Europa? RVs use them and my LongEZ has
a tiny one that provides air to the entire cabin. Works really well!
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
Date: May 28, 2021
Chris,
Two comments:
There is nothing wrong with the NACA duct. They work well. The only issue I have
is they take room to install properly. They work great in conjunction with
an air deflector or ball shut off, but it is somewhat long and protrudes into
the cockpit. Properly ducted and maintainable, they are great.
The only reason I liked the Ultimate ventilator was it is easy to install and is
acceptable for use in the Europa lower windscreen and or side of the aircraft.
Not perfect but it allowed me to have an easy to direct airflow into the cockpit
that still sealed when at altitude with minimal effort.
As far as Mono landings/decoupling the flaps and gear: David Joyce is spot on.
Eric Trombley has a slick setup, but it is not retrofittable easily. He did
much work to make it full proof.
The mono is unique. It is not a tail dragger at all. It is a monocycle with a
cheater wheel on the rear. Think of it as a conventional with stiff gear that
are placed six inches apart.
I wrote about my technique. Like David, I touch tailwheel first. If you cannot
comfortably fly the plane into ground effect and hold it inches above the runway
until the speed bleeds off and continue to slow until the tail wheel touches
first, the landings can be sporty. The Europa has honest and light controls
that allow the pilot to precisely fly the aircraft in formation with other
aircraft and in formation with the runway. In my opinion, you must learn to slow
flight precisely down the runway constantly correcting for the winds and turbulence
while holding exact fuselage alignment with precise small rudder inputs
until reaching the landing attitude (which is still above the stall I might
add) until the nose has raised high enough to allow the plane to settle tail
wheel first which will immediately drop the main wheel to the runway. Don't
relax the stick. Keep the stick back and don't relax until in the chocks. Wheel
landings are not an option.
One must be patient with a fixed pitch prop set IAW the Rotax manual on a 912/914
engine. There is much float due to residual thrust in the flare with a fixed
pitch cruise prop. This keeps your plane flying much longer than is normal
(or tolerable in my opinion). Much has been discussed on this and some may approach
as low as 55Knots. At 55Knots the plane is behind the power curve and
only 10 knots above the stall when loaded. The sink is quite pronounced unless
power is kept on. Once in the runway proximity, nose high, if the power is
cut over a hard surface runway, it is very easy to drop in and if not in exact
runway alignment, it can get sporty. Like many others, I'm comfortable with
a 60 KIAS stabilized approach. Your inflight final approach RPM is normally still
a high 22-2400 RPM even at idle. I put the nose on the aimpoint and pull
a bit of power, if still on, to cross the threshold about 55 IAS and concentrate
on maintaining runway alignment. I maintain a slow flight attitude as close
to the runway as possible and retard any power remaining and patiently wait
for the float to diminish and try to get a two point landing. If the main touches
first I just keep flying the plane and keeping it straight until it finally
settles. Never relax and keep flying through the rollout.
A constant speed prop tends to cut out that painfully long float over a hot hard
surfaced runway. The blades flatten and with an idle of about 1600-1800 static
and allow a simple throttle retard and a smooth round out to the landing attitude.
A fully finished airplane with a slick paint job has excellent slow flight characteristics
so practice.
Consider setting tire pressure to 16PSI to reduce bounce.
Grass strips are more forgiving to land on. Less float and a bit softer bounce
if any provided it is a smooth runway.
Enough of my ramblings. You can read my paper on landing the mono on my website
and on the Europa Club website. .
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vents (again)
Thanks for the reply.
I would inquire but the Europa Club web site says "Following a successful initial
run of 20, a further batch is being considered, subject to interest." so it
kind of sounds like it's not available right now. But I haven't really email
to ask.
But are NACA scoops really that bad in the Europa? RVs use them and my LongEZ has
a tiny one that provides air to the entire cabin. Works really well!
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "Paul M 383" <europaul383(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 27, 2021
Mallard wrote:
> Has anyone on the forum De-Coupled the Flaps & Outriggers on an XS Monowheel?
> If yes, can it be done after the aircraft has been built?
> If yes, what is involved?
>
> Thanks in advance
> James
I don't know if it can be easily done after completion (anything can be done with
enough money and time!) but Justin Kennedy and Ted Gladstone did it during
their build...
Also don't know what is involved, sorry!
HTH,
Paul
G-PLPM
XS Mono 912ULS
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From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Date: May 28, 2021
I converted my Mono to Trike and removing Flap lever/tube was easy! and fitting
electric flap motor straight forward.
Dave Park G-LDVO
> On 28 May 2021, at 07:03, Paul M 383 wrote:
>
>
>
> Mallard wrote:
>> Has anyone on the forum De-Coupled the Flaps & Outriggers on an XS Monowheel?
>> If yes, can it be done after the aircraft has been built?
>> If yes, what is involved?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> James
>
>
> I don't know if it can be easily done after completion (anything can be done
with enough money and time!) but Justin Kennedy and Ted Gladstone did it during
their build...
>
> Also don't know what is involved, sorry!
>
> HTH,
>
> Paul
> G-PLPM
> XS Mono 912ULS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502078#502078
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/g_zted_4_136.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Just spent last week investigating this very question; it is possible, on paper
at least... moving onto this task after first improving the retract system and
getting rid of the bungee cord... secret squirrel business!
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Scanlan <aspenbuild(at)me.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Slightly curious here as to need, is this not trying to re invent the wheel? I
only say so as a mono owner, in 12 years no replacement or adjustment needed.
Also the single leaver action for gear/flaps/outriggers means less to forget!
Sent from my iPhone
> On 28 May 2021, at 12:26, Area-51 wrote:
>
>
> Just spent last week investigating this very question; it is possible, on paper
at least... moving onto this task after first improving the retract system
and getting rid of the bungee cord... secret squirrel business!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502080#502080
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Thanks for the advice guys. Question to the last poster: Have you found limitations
related to cross country flying because of wind conditions with the standard
mono? Not referring to those extremes when you have 20 knots direct crosswind.
David, I am going to reply to Bud's message on my vents posting but in a nutshell:
I am doing fantastic in low wind conditions. I can be so precise as to feel
the tailwheel just skipping of the ground with the main still in the air. It's
really neat and fun. It's when it gets bumpy that my precision goes out the
door but yesterday I went out to practice with almost 10 knots of xwind (it gets
bumpy in our field because of trees) and I did fine but was not holding the
nose high enough. One go around out of four approaches. Getting there.
Just trying to asses the true capabilities of the mono as a dependable xcountry
machine. But not giving up on my pretty mono yet!!
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Classic factory exhaust material?
From: "HaroldZimmer" <shery40(at)getnada.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
I got the idea about the problem you are facing about your exhaust as I faced the same problem some time ago. I contacted some dissertation writing services (https://www.rushmyessay.com/dissertation-writing-services/) which help me find the welding material for specific materials.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Hi Bud and others,
As always good advice. First let me say that I read your paper about landing the
mono in great detail Bud. I did go out and practiced the low and slow flying
exercise over the runway. It helped greatly.
When the conditions are calm I am doing better than great. Extremely precise and
I am able to land without bounce (tailwheel first) every time. I have learned
that, yes, my bounces are directly related to touching down main first.
My level of anxiety is certainly dropping as I get more experience (just frustrated
at how long it's taking to get to that point). I do believe that I am OK
now and could probably successfully land the mono under almost any conditions
without breaking it. But can't help feeling certain level of anxiety when the
winds comes up. BTW, talking to extremely experienced TW pilots here, they tell
me it is simply that way when you fly taildraggers. They told me they are certainly
a little less versatile than tri-gear airplanes when traveling and more
planning is required. I have a friend with an TW RV-8 with nearly 4000 hrs in
taildraggers and he doesn't fly when it gets too windy or gusty.
The residual thrust is an issue but I am not going to consider a CS prop until
I get more experience. For now I have found a good compromise that gives me plenty
of climb power and decent true airspeed (around 115-120).
Overall I am really enjoying the mono. But it does take patience and practice.
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Back to the vent topic,
I hear you Bud that the one I have is fairly low profile. I will sent an email
to inquire about the ultimate vent alternative and see what happens. But summer
is catching up to me and the cockpit is starting to get a little hot (although
I have an Arctic Cooler (picture attached) that haven't really tried yet in
flight). It works though if you can get ice that is :) Not very practical but
fun experiment (got it very cheap used).
At what height do you recommend installing it? You mention not in line with the
chord line of the wing. But is it ok right in the middle of the seam line or
bellow it?
Best Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Hi Chris, its a hoot indeed! almost as much fun as my hummelbird :-)
This vid is with 15knots xwind from the left, gusty day, with tree rotors.
Fun stuff. This is with about 100hrs on a mono.
https://youtu.be/1Wmep_9O5QU
fwiw,
CHeers,
Pete
On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 9:34 AM n7188u wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice guys. Question to the last poster: Have you found
> limitations related to cross country flying because of wind conditions with
> the standard mono? Not referring to those extremes when you have 20 knots
> direct crosswind.
>
> David, I am going to reply to Bud's message on my vents posting but in a
> nutshell: I am doing fantastic in low wind conditions. I can be so precise
> as to feel the tailwheel just skipping of the ground with the main still in
> the air. It's really neat and fun. It's when it gets bumpy that my
> precision goes out the door but yesterday I went out to practice with
> almost 10 knots of xwind (it gets bumpy in our field because of trees) and
> I did fine but was not holding the nose high enough. One go around out of
> four approaches. Getting there.
>
> Just trying to asses the true capabilities of the mono as a dependable
> xcountry machine. But not giving up on my pretty mono yet!!
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502082#502082
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
Does the arctic cooler actually work?
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 10:11 AM n7188u wrote:
>
> Back to the vent topic,
>
> I hear you Bud that the one I have is fairly low profile. I will sent an
> email to inquire about the ultimate vent alternative and see what happens.
> But summer is catching up to me and the cockpit is starting to get a little
> hot (although I have an Arctic Cooler (picture attached) that haven't
> really tried yet in flight). It works though if you can get ice that is :)
> Not very practical but fun experiment (got it very cheap used).
>
> At what height do you recommend installing it? You mention not in line
> with the chord line of the wing. But is it ok right in the middle of the
> seam line or bellow it?
>
> Best Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502085#502085
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/arctic_cooler_2_689.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/arctic_cooler_1_124.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Will,
It actually does. I tried it out in the sun, it was around 80 something and I locked
the canopy. It kept the cockpit at a good temperature for 15 minutes, then
the ice was gone.
Keep in mind this is not just blowing air over the ice, it circulates the water
in contact with the ice through a coil and then blows the air through the coil.
So it doesn't add moisture. But also remember it's not a full blown AC so limited
BTU. It did keep the cockpit at a nice fresh temperature.
But I am not sure how practical it can be. For local flights sure. The idea is
that you only use it on the ground and then turn it off in the air to save ice.
But if you go on a breakfast trip, will de ice be there by the time you need
it on the way back?
The jury still out. I think it will probably be too much hassle and at some point
it doesn't get used but I will try this summer. We all know how hot Florida
can be :)
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2021
Nice landing Pete. Well, I'm still hopeful. As I said, not giving up yet!
I got a collection of landing videos I have to put in YouTube. Let me see if I
can this weekend. It seems that when the Europa flies everyone at my airport is
making videos of me. Of course, my landings get worse proportional to the number
of people watching me :)
BTW, it does get a lot of attention here. People love watching it. Like a new girl
in town :)
Chris
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: DOTH Sunday 30 May North Coates
Houlihan and I plan to go to N Coates tomorrow (S side of Humber
Estuary) arriving around midday. Acclaimed as a 'great little airfield'
with the 'best bacon butty south of the Humber' and a small museum, on
Sky Demon. PPR needed. Hope to see some of you there.
David Joyce, GXSDJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: May 29, 2021
Subject: Vents (again)
Chris,
I installed a NACA vent on the lower cowl on the port side (see picture
below). The NACA feeds a 2=9D SCAT tube which ties into a plenum
that feeds two eye ball vents in the center stack of the instrument pane
l. The vents are fully adjustable and work extremely well, even in the
hot desert southwest where I live.
Erich
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Subject: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Date: May 29, 2021
=EF=BBHello James,
I de-coupled my flaps and outriggers during the initial build. That sai
d, my outriggers are not stock, rather my own design that retract flush
into the wings. I use a linear actuator to raise and lower the outrigge
rs which are interlocked with the main gear. For the the flaps I insta
lled the tri-gear flap motor which has worked well. The installation ca
n be done as a retro fit, albeit with a lot of work.
Below is a photo taken at Oshkosh. I had just taken off and was in the
process of raising the gear and flaps when the photo was taken. Another
second or so and the plane would have been cleaned up. Oh well, it
=99s still a great photo.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Subject: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
Date: May 29, 2021
=EF=BBHello James,
I de-coupled my flaps and outriggers during the initial build. That sai
d, my outriggers are not stock, rather my own design that retract flush
into the wings. I use a linear actuator to raise and lower the outrigge
rs which are interlocked with the main gear. For the the flaps I insta
lled the tri-gear flap motor which has worked well. The installation ca
n be done as a retro fit, albeit with a lot of work.
Below is a photo taken at Oshkosh. I had just taken off and was in the
process of raising the gear and flaps when the photo was taken. Another
second or so and the plane would have been cleaned up. Oh well, it
=99s still a great photo.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: May 29, 2021
Subject: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Hello Chris,
You inquired about the utility of the Europa Monowheel as a cross countr
y plane, specifically as it pertains to winds. In the eighteenth years
of flying my Monowheel all over the United States I have never been grou
nded due to high winds other than flying into my home field. I have lan
ded the mono in some pretty strong and gusty winds flying in the desert
southwest during the summer months.
Gusts are certainly the biggest concern with the Europa or any other sma
ll plane for that matter. Just last week we had a Piper Arrow crash on
landing due to strong gusting winds. The pilot was flying into Las Vega
s from Southern California. The plane was totaled. See photo below.
I landed in similar conditions a couple of months ago. On the first lan
ding I had just touched down when I was launched back into the air by a
gust. The wind was 18 kts gusting 30 kts with a 50 degree crosswind fro
m the right. Rather than try and save the landing I did a go-around.
The tower ask me to state my intentions. I told him I would give it on
e more try before heading to another field in the area with more favorab
le wind conditions. Las Vegas is in a bowl with mountains surrounding
the valley. Fortunately, we have a couple of airports on the other side
of the mountains which make for good alternates which I have availed my
self to on occasion (especially if the wife is on board as she hates the
bumps).
I came around for the second attempt and fought it all the way down to t
he ground. The gusts were horrendous. I was jockeying the power like a
fighter pilot making a carrier landing. I was carrying quite a bit of
power when I crossed the threshold. Flying just a foot or so off the ru
nway I chopped the power and set the plane down. I am sure it wasn
=99t pretty but I did get her landed. The tower commented on the gusty
conditions and I responded, =9CI think I found the limits of the
plane.=9D
I have landed in steady winds up to 35 kts with varying crosswinds. I l
and using the crab technique, kicking out the tail and lining up with th
e centerline during the flare and aileron to control drift. If I can st
raighten out the plane with the rudder on short final I will attempt the
landing. If not, then I am landing at another airport. BTW, I make al
l my landings with full flaps regardless of the winds. I do, however, t
ake off with partial flaps though.
The Europa is a marvelous cross country plane and I wouldn=99t hes
itate taking it anywhere. That=99s not to say I don=99t ta
ke the weather and winds into consideration, I do. In fact, I have have
made plenty of unplanned layovers due to weather. It=99s the old
adage, =9CIf you fly by air, have time to spare.=9D The Eu
ropa has its limitations just like any other small plane. Plan accordi
ngly.
Blue skies,
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lifted aircraft nose.
From: "John Kirkgaard" <john.kirkegaard(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 29, 2021
I have found that the previous owner of my Canadian imported Europa XS
have extended the vertical nose wheel spindle 50 mm and installed a 50 mm spacer.
That means that the nose is lifted 50 mm up leaving the plane in a more
nose up attitude when it's on the ground, and off course the wings in a higher
AOA.
It's probable done to give more prop clearance for the 68" Woodcomp 3000/2
propeller.
Have anyone of you had experience with the behavior of the aircraft during
take off and landing with the nose gear lowered this 50 mm.
I can't really see if it matters or not.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502102#502102
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Lifted aircraft nose.
Date: May 29, 2021
Ah the longer prop is better modification.
If you retain the Woodcomp at 68 inches you will cut off the back of wheel
pant if you pull it backwards and run the prop/engine on the ground.
By adding a 50mm to the spindle and a spacer, he may have changed the geome
try of the antifriction plate to the horizon. This angles the spindle back
and changes the castor angle and the shimmy dampener is slightly affected.
You will just have to flare completely to prevent banging down on the nosew
heel first. With full flaps and attempting to stick the plane on to the ru
nway above a normal landing speed of 45-50 KIAS you will most likely hit th
e nose wheel first and porpoise. Not good for any aircraft.
>From an inspection standpoint I would say pay attention to the shimmy dampe
ner plastic plate for uneven wear, and your bolts going through the gear le
g for looseness and elongation. IF the bolts loosen, remove them, and chec
k the holes have not become elongated or the bolts necked down from wear.
Increasing the ground clearance by jacking the nose up is normally not done
. Today=92s composite propeller manufacturers gain very little in increasi
ng the blade length beyond 67 inches on a Rotax except for STOL operations.
The loss in cruise speed between a 68 to 70 inch Whirlwind and a 64 inch
Whirlwind is about one knot at cruise and takeoff distance is not affected
in the constant speed prop as the added pitch accelerates about equally. I
n STOL aircraft, a longer blade means a bit shorter takeoff but absolutely
a very much lower top end. In a glass airplane, like the Europa or Lancair
235, cruise speed difference between a 68 and 64 doesn=92t matter. It is
the pitch/twist of the blade on a fixed pitch and on a constant speed prop,
the pitch is in the hub. See my website for selecting a propeller for you
r Rotax engine.
Just my opinion,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 1:15 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Lifted aircraft nose.
com>
I have found that the previous owner of my Canadian imported Europa XS
have extended the vertical nose wheel spindle 50 mm and installed a 50 mm s
pacer.
That means that the nose is lifted 50 mm up leaving the plane in a more
nose up attitude when it's on the ground, and off course the wings in a hig
her AOA.
It's probable done to give more prop clearance for the 68" Woodcomp 3000/2
propeller.
Have anyone of you had experience with the behavior of the aircraft during
take off and landing with the nose gear lowered this 50 mm.
I can't really see if it matters or not.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502102%23502102&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Date: May 30, 2021
Great comments Erich. I can stand by everything you have said.
Meet up again next Oshkosh, if planned to go ahead, and I have been vaccinat
ed!
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 30/05/2021, at 4:10 AM, Erich Trombley wrote:
>
> =EF=BBHello Chris,
>
> You inquired about the utility of the Europa Monowheel as a cross country p
lane, specifically as it pertains to winds. In the eighteenth years of flyi
ng my Monowheel all over the United States I have never been grounded due to
high winds other than flying into my home field. I have landed the mono in
some pretty strong and gusty winds flying in the desert southwest during th
e summer months.
>
> Gusts are certainly the biggest concern with the Europa or any other small
plane for that matter. Just last week we had a Piper Arrow crash on landin
g due to strong gusting winds. The pilot was flying into Las Vegas from Sou
thern California. The plane was totaled. See photo below.
>
> I landed in similar conditions a couple of months ago. On the first landi
ng I had just touched down when I was launched back into the air by a gust.
The wind was 18 kts gusting 30 kts with a 50 degree crosswind from the righ
t. Rather than try and save the landing I did a go-around. The tower ask
me to state my intentions. I told him I would give it one more try before h
eading to another field in the area with more favorable wind conditions. L
as Vegas is in a bowl with mountains surrounding the valley. Fortunately, w
e have a couple of airports on the other side of the mountains which make fo
r good alternates which I have availed myself to on occasion (especially if t
he wife is on board as she hates the bumps).
>
> I came around for the second attempt and fought it all the way down to the
ground. The gusts were horrendous. I was jockeying the power like a fight
er pilot making a carrier landing. I was carrying quite a bit of power when
I crossed the threshold. Flying just a foot or so off the runway I chopped
the power and set the plane down. I am sure it wasn=99t pretty but I
did get her landed. The tower commented on the gusty conditions and I resp
onded, =9CI think I found the limits of the plane.=9D
>
> I have landed in steady winds up to 35 kts with varying crosswinds. I lan
d using the crab technique, kicking out the tail and lining up with the cent
erline during the flare and aileron to control drift. If I can straighten o
ut the plane with the rudder on short final I will attempt the landing. If n
ot, then I am landing at another airport. BTW, I make all my landings with f
ull flaps regardless of the winds. I do, however, take off with partial fla
ps though.
>
> The Europa is a marvelous cross country plane and I wouldn=99t hesit
ate taking it anywhere. That=99s not to say I don=99t take the
weather and winds into consideration, I do. In fact, I have have made plen
ty of unplanned layovers due to weather. It=99s the old adage,
=9CIf you fly by air, have time to spare.=9D The Europa has its limit
ations just like any other small plane. Plan accordingly.
>
> Blue skies,
> Erich Trombley
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Choose to be safer online.
> Opt-in to Cyber Safety with NortonLifeLock.
> Get Norton 360 with LifeLock starting at $9.95/month.*
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utm_source=mktg&utm_medium=taglines&utm_campaign=nzlifelk_launch&utm_c
ontent=tag995&promoCode=A23457
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
From: "Chris Callicott" <c.callicott1(at)btinternet.com>
Date: May 29, 2021
Hi,
l I need to replace my electric flap actuator, ie both motor and lead screw assembly.
However, the mounting bracket FL26 is bonded and bolted to the fuselage
floor (Build manual 28T). Removal of the AN4-23 bolt is not possible owing to
location of the baggage bay supporting structure. Please advise how to remove
the existing actuator.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502107#502107
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
Date: May 30, 2021
Chris,
In the XS you probably have batteries, or ELT equipment and of course rudde
r cables nearby the servo floor attachment.
It is highly likely that no provision or access panel has been made over th
e flap actuator in the baggage bay floor or through the floor supports.
This is a travesty of failure to plan for future maintenance and proper eng
ineering I=92m afraid, and is done for expedient construction in the manual
.
Of course in some countries this may be a major modification and one has to
go to the approving authority or be approved by an inspector. Do so.
In a stock XS:
Remove the cotter pin and nut. Use a cloth or something as a dam to preven
t loss of the spacers/washers when ready to pull the AN 4-23 bolt. Failure
to do this may result in hours of hunting for parts dropped.
Procure an angle drill and small hole saw or similar to simply bore through
the wood support to gain sufficient clearance to remove the bolt outboard.
Disconnect the linear drive actuator from the flap bar and unplug/disconnec
t the wiring.
Again, standing on one=92s head in the baggage bay, reach in and undo the b
olt connecting the actuator to the flap cross bar using appropriate sockets
and extension, mirrors, lights and patience.
I prefer to do this with the wings off and use an assistant to peer through
the flap tube arcs in the fuselage side and hand me tools.
Installation is as frustrating as removal.
I always make a plug for my flap drive for troubleshooting and maintenance.
These linear drives rarely fail, but can.
"If you make it convenient to maintain, easy to access, it seems it will ne
ver fail."
Below is how I do my baggage bay floors to assure access. Normally a 4 inc
h hole in the floor and the hole in one of the ribs is done during construc
tion only as needed to gain access and provide a viewing hole.
Ensure your country modification procedures are followed. In the US I simp
ly made sure I had access. If you make a hole in an airplane or support, o
ne must assure the reinforcement is as structurally sound.
Bud Yerly
[Diagram Description automatically generated]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of Chris Callicott
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 6:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
et.com>
Hi,
l I need to replace my electric flap actuator, ie both motor and lead screw
assembly. However, the mounting bracket FL26 is bonded and bolted to the f
uselage floor (Build manual 28T). Removal of the AN4-23 bolt is not possibl
e owing to location of the baggage bay supporting structure. Please advise
how to remove the existing actuator.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502107%23502107&data=04%7C01%7C%7C9
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
From: "Chris Callicott" <c.callicott1(at)btinternet.com>
Date: May 30, 2021
Hi Bud,
Thanks for your response. I concur with your views.
I am on the final lap of a 2 year restoration when the actuator failed on a shakedown
flight.
I may have to drill a hole in one of the baggage bay support panels in order to
remove the AN4-23 bolt from FL26. This may allow me to change to motor and retain
the existing lead screw.
If I can access the other end of the lead screw with the wings and flaps removed
from the fuselage, I will swap out the complete actuator. I would appreciate
your view on whether or not this is possible.
Many thanks for your notes, published on the Europa Club site. They have already
been hugely helpful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502128#502128
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lifted aircraft nose.
From: "John Kirkgaard" <john.kirkegaard(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 30, 2021
Thanks to you Bud, for your reply.
I checked the bolts through the nose leg a while ago, and found the bolts to
be damaged and the holes elongated.
I have enlarged the bolt holes reamed them to match some new shoulder
bolts and making sure that there is a very tight fit.
The nylon friction disc seems to be worn even.
Seems like it is possible to make acceptable landings if I just take care.
Turning the nose wheel 180 degree will result in a distance of 80 mm between
the prop tip and the top of the wheel spat.
Not much space for movement if I lover it 50 mm, but on the other hand, if I turn
the the wheel backwards I may not be in a situation where the plane is
moving up and down.
During start I could imagine, that the plane will try to get into the air, despite
insufficient air speed. Could that be the situation?
Regards John Kirkegaard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502131#502131
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Lifted aircraft nose.
Date: May 30, 2021
Well John sounds like you have it under control.
As I said, it is important to make sure you flare it out to preserve the nose gear
from hitting first.
As far as cutting the nosewheel pant when turned 180 degrees with the prop, if
doing a static ground run at full power the nose can compress the nose down (more
so with the bungee rather than the springs) and perhaps reduce the clearance
between prop and pant.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of John Kirkgaard
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2021 3:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lifted aircraft nose.
Thanks to you Bud, for your reply.
I checked the bolts through the nose leg a while ago, and found the bolts to
be damaged and the holes elongated.
I have enlarged the bolt holes reamed them to match some new shoulder
bolts and making sure that there is a very tight fit.
The nylon friction disc seems to be worn even.
Seems like it is possible to make acceptable landings if I just take care.
Turning the nose wheel 180 degree will result in a distance of 80 mm between
the prop tip and the top of the wheel spat.
Not much space for movement if I lover it 50 mm, but on the other hand, if I turn
the the wheel backwards I may not be in a situation where the plane is
moving up and down.
During start I could imagine, that the plane will try to get into the air, despite
insufficient air speed. Could that be the situation?
Regards John Kirkegaard
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
Date: May 30, 2021
Chris,
I have not changed out the motor in the XS actuator I'm afraid. The manufacturers
name is on the motor normally and if you can read it, they can supply the
info.
On my Motion industries linear actuator I bought a kit from them with new brushes
and it was fairly easy to repair.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Chris Callicott
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2021 1:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
Hi Bud,
Thanks for your response. I concur with your views.
I am on the final lap of a 2 year restoration when the actuator failed on a shakedown
flight.
I may have to drill a hole in one of the baggage bay support panels in order to
remove the AN4-23 bolt from FL26. This may allow me to change to motor and retain
the existing lead screw.
If I can access the other end of the lead screw with the wings and flaps removed
from the fuselage, I will swap out the complete actuator. I would appreciate
your view on whether or not this is possible.
Many thanks for your notes, published on the Europa Club site. They have already
been hugely helpful.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
From: "Chris Callicott" <c.callicott1(at)btinternet.com>
Date: May 30, 2021
Thanks once again Bud.
I will follow up on a repair kit.
BW, Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502135#502135
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: May 30, 2021
Subject: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Hi Tim,
Good to hear from you. Yes, lets meet up at OSH. So looking forward to the event.
I flew to SNF this year which was a great primer for OSH.
Cheers,
Erich
>
> From: timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
>
> Great comments Erich. I can stand by everything you have said.
> Meet up again next Oshkosh, if planned to go ahead, and I have been vaccinat
> ed!
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
> 021 0640221
____________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Date: May 30, 2021
Lucky Guys! Ill be watching online, as borders still closed and no second vax
before aug. ill be there in spirit tho! Have a blast!
PeteZ :)
> On May 30, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Erich Trombley wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Good to hear from you. Yes, lets meet up at OSH. So looking forward to the
event. I flew to SNF this year which was a great primer for OSH.
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
>>
>> From: timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
>>
>> Great comments Erich. I can stand by everything you have said.
>> Meet up again next Oshkosh, if planned to go ahead, and I have been vaccinat
>> ed!
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Tim Ward
>> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>> Fendalton,
>> Christchurch, 8052
>> New Zealand.
>> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
>> 021 0640221
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
>
> Christian Diet Guru, 6 Others Die When Plane Goes Into Lake
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c049c2cd1bf95ba6st04vuc1
> Tensions Shake Commemoration of Tulsa Race Massacre
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c04bf7561bf95ba6st04vuc2
> Poll: 23% of Republicans Are QAnon Believers
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c04e316d1bf95ba6st04vuc3
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Date: May 31, 2021
Sent from my iPhone
> On 31 May 2021, at 9:21 am, Erich Trombley wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Good to hear from you. Yes, lets meet up at OSH. So looking forward to the
event. I flew to SNF this year which was a great primer for OSH.
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
>>
>> From: timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
>>
>> Great comments Erich. I can stand by everything you have said.
>> Meet up again next Oshkosh, if planned to go ahead, and I have been vaccinat
>> ed!
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Tim Ward
>> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>> Fendalton,
>> Christchurch, 8052
>> New Zealand.
>> ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
>> 021 0640221
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
>
> Christian Diet Guru, 6 Others Die When Plane Goes Into Lake
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c049c2cd1bf95ba6st04vuc1
> Tensions Shake Commemoration of Tulsa Race Massacre
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c04bf7561bf95ba6st04vuc2
> Poll: 23% of Republicans Are QAnon Believers
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b41c04e316d1bf95ba6st04vuc3
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 30, 2021
Can anyone on the forum tell me what main wing and tailplane profiles are used
on the Europa? Thanks in advance...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502141#502141
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
That info is in the excellent booklet(s) by Don Dykin, which I could
possibly be persuaded to send you a copy of. Where are you? David Joyce,
GXSDJ
On 2021-05-31 03:54, Area-51 wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone on the forum tell me what main wing and tailplane profiles
> are used on the Europa? Thanks in advance...
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502141#502141
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Thanks David, searched for Dykin and found some info on the clubs website; will
have a read and see if it provides the information Im after!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502148#502148
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Ivell <SteveIvell(at)pestproof.co.uk>
Subject: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
Date: May 31, 2021
Cut a hole in the baggage bay support to allow access to the bolt. It's onl
y plywood supported by fibreglass so a couple of small holes wouldn't be a
problem.
Kind Regards
Steve Ivell
Managing Director
Pestproof Ltd.
07971 128842
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Chris Callicott
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 11:53:39 PM
Subject: Europa-List: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
et.com>
Hi,
l I need to replace my electric flap actuator, ie both motor and lead screw
assembly. However, the mounting bracket FL26 is bonded and bolted to the f
uselage floor (Build manual 28T). Removal of the AN4-23 bolt is not possibl
e owing to location of the baggage bay supporting structure. Please advise
how to remove the existing actuator.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502107#502107
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to disconnect flap actuator from FL26
From: "Chris Callicott" <c.callicott1(at)btinternet.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Many thanks Steve.
Wilco!
KR,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502153#502153
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 31, 2021
One of our group members got distracted during climb out after take off, while
the flaps remained extended to 18 degrees. Shortly his speed reached or slightly
surpassed 100 knots, so the exceedance was about 20 knots before he quickly
stowed the flaps.
After carefully examining all the flap hinge plates, the fibre-glass surrounding
where they are embedded, hinges inside the fuselage and surrounding structure,
flap root pins and the flap root structure generally, flap push-pull rod and
lever, no evidence of damage could be found. Subsequent flight confirmed that
the flaps seem to be in perfect working order. It also seems that the whole
construction is commendably robust.
So my questions are "How is the flap limiting speed determined by the designer
and what if any factor is allowed in calculations for possible overloads?"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502160#502160
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Read both of the Dykin writings. They are very informative, however neither provide
the information being sought... Specifically searching for actual airfoil
profiles employed on the Europa; profile plotting data in excel spread sheet,
CSV coordinates, or title tag of airfoil.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502162#502162
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: May 31, 2021
No doubt you've read the PilotFriend flight test report http://www.pilotfriend.com/flight_reports/reports/18e.htm. At the end under Europa History is stated " Don Dykins designed the Europas wing. Don, as former chief aerodynamicist at British Aerospace, had directed the development of the advanced technology wing of the Airbus."
While building my Europa Classic between 1994 and 1997, I recall seeing it written
somewhere that the Don Dykins wing profile became known simply as the "Europa
profile" and I'll try rummaging through my large pile of Europa info to see
if I can find the reference you seek.
I'm fairly confident that it was never accorded a formal unique reference listing
in any airfoil database.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502164#502164
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Thanks for the reply Erich, interesting story and good advice. Certainly makes
me feel more confident and I have to say that I have been practicing and my landings
are becoming more controlled with a very small percentage of them with
a small bounce. This weekend I did a nice two hour cross country and enjoyed it
greatly.
Although I am sure that your landing story still applies to my airplane, am I correct
in assuming you used your split gear/landing feature to land with less
flaps during that extreme wind condition?
Best,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502165#502165
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: De-Coupling Flaps & Outriggers
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Beautiful picture Erich. I hope mine looks like that one day!
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502166#502166
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vents (again)
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Cool Erich, I see it. However, not very eager to mess with my instrument module
now. Too lazy :)
I think I am going to try just a couple of NACA on the sides. I measured where
to put them to keep them out of the way. I will copy the ones in my LongEZ which
work well although those are located on a place where the angle favors them
greatly (compared to what it will be in the Europa)
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502167#502167
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: May 31, 2021
I believe that the stall warner mod has a profile of the forward most 6 of the
wing profileFred
> On May 31, 2021, at 2:39 PM, Area-51 wrote:
>
>
> Read both of the Dykin writings. They are very informative, however neither provide
the information being sought... Specifically searching for actual airfoil
profiles employed on the Europa; profile plotting data in excel spread sheet,
CSV coordinates, or title tag of airfoil.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502162#502162
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2021
Decided to just go Old School on this one and plot it all out from actuals... Task
done :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502170#502170
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/029a9da9_3a06_42c6_9528_82c08232d91d_126.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Jonathan,
Well done for 'coming out' over an overspeed occurrence - we have all done it to
a larger or lesser extent and the questions you pose are very relevant.
I am not speaking for Europa Aircraft (current or past) or for the Club, however,
generally, the flap limiting speed is determined having conducted a stress
analysis of the whole system. The failure mode that causes the first failure
or lowest reserve factor (RF) is associated with a speed within the V-N envelope.
A suitable factor is applied (which in any case will include at least 1.5
for LIMIT to ULTIMATE and, most likely, additional factors such as 1.15 fitting
factor (at joints) or even 1.33 (for regularly dismantled items). For composite
structure failures, there are yet more factors that take into account the
environmental influences (e.g. temperature, humidity) and variability of build
standard.
Regarding loads, as air pressure is proportional to the square of the airspeed
the loads can rise very quickly. For your overspeed occurrence, the flaps would
have seen a dynamic pressure of approx 1.45 (i.e. 100^2/83^2 = 1.45, hence
45% overload). By definition this is somewhere between LIMIT and ULTIMATE load
levels, hence some detrimental deformation may have occurred.
The tg Owners Manual states "Vfe Maximum flap extended speed is the highest speed
permissible with the flaps in the prescribed extended position".
PoH states Vfe as 83kts. Vfe (max speed for extending/retracting flaps) implies
the actuator is the weak link. Vf would be a flap limiting speed.
You have done exactly the right thing, you have inspected the system for deformation.
It is likely that no damage has occurred at all.
If damage has occurred, the Europa actuator end attachment holes may have ovalised
very slightly (rattle tested?) but I suspect the flap end-pin and bearing
(and the attachment into the flap) are
over-engineered and will be unaffected.
Maybe you could add an additional disassembly/inspection to the flap actuator end
fittings when the aircraft is under it's next scheduled maintenance.
I suspect Bud may also have some useful input!
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502172#502172
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
The aerofoils are hybrid, derived from first principles and hence unique. If you
wish to do your own analysis I suggest you ask Europa Aircraft for the external
profile - David Stanbridge recently made an offer to share their 3D scanned
data of the Europa OML.
Please bear in mind that the section changes root to tip, hence intermediate wing
rib coordinate stations are needed to correctly simulate the wing.
Some online CAD models of the Europa exists, however, I would be cautious of using
them as their accuracy is quite poor.
FYI
I was fortunate to work at BAe Hatfield under Don Dykins for a short time during
my apprenticeship (moving on to the stress office as a career). The only other
claim I have to have known him personally was that he had the same preference
for cars as myself - he brought a Ford Capri 2.8i I had owned.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502173#502173
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3D Printer
From: "Areba21" <arebbaloch1122(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
When I say, you'll agree with me. Adhesive printers make your life much easier
when you have to print a large number of adhesives or labels Stickers from our
shops are often difficult to get.
You're not going to find them in shops if you're searching for the sticker for
your preferred TV shows the just visit https://printerhow.com, your favorite anime,
work-related issues, ID text, massages or even decorating your home using
colorful and light sticks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502174#502174
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Thanks for the insight there John! Have got todays results into CAD already. Your
right on the hybrid stance; looks a little like an Eppler or Boeing profile
(stable up to 400kt cruise)... which doesnt surprise me given the performance
envelope... Will see if the factory are willing to supply any data. My experience
on this level of study generally ends up with reverse engineering with laser
scanning due to highly guarded secret squirrel bunker information that can
be measured off any particular given factory part purchased... will just have
to use the sunlight to tell me where those stations are and plot out the whole
wing accordingly...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502178#502178
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: Jun 01, 2021
On 2021-06-01, at 15:33, Area-51 wrote:
> My experience on this level of study generally ends up with reverse engineering
with laser scanning due to highly guarded secret squirrel bunker information
that can be measured off any particular given factory part purchased... will
just have to use the sunlight to tell me where those stations are and plot out
the whole wing accordingly...
Area-51 - not sure if I missed something earlier in this thread, but just out of
idle curiosity, what is your intended use of the data once captured?
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Subject: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Chris,
Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have the ability
to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all my landings
full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the nose is better,
plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned in my original post
I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
Regards,
Erich
N28ET Classic Mono 914
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
Further to Erich's excellent comments, fwiw, in the std mono, if full flaps
is causing issues on a short strip, I pull the flaps up partially once
airborne (my speed builds quickly once off the ground), allowing for better
climb. I have not yet found it to be limiting, other than it pops off a
bumpy strip prematurely.
On a typical longer runway, I simply let the speed build to Vx before
stowing the flaps all the way in one motion - typically at 2/3's runway.
In my XS "dream" build, I am leaving them coupled. I like keeping things
simple :)
Cheers
PeteZ
On Tue., Jun. 1, 2021, 11:50 a.m. Erich Trombley,
wrote:
> >
>
> Chris,
>
> Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have the
> ability to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all my
> landings full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the
> nose is better, plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned
> in my original post I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
>
> With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
>
> Regards,
> Erich
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Sponsored by
> https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
>
> On Punishments for Church Sex Abuse, a 'Significant Rewrite'
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b655246175d551840d9st02duc1
> Supreme Court Move Means J&J Owes Women $2B
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b6552485a29551840d9st02duc2
> After Osaka's Surprise Withdrawal, a Lively Debate
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b65524a912a551840d9st02duc3
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2021
From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
<>
How long is the runway and what surface/condition?
I'm 'struggling' with the acceleration of a new prop I'm trying and would like
a comparison.
Duncan McF.
> On 01 June 2021 at 17:20 Pete Zut wrote:
>
> Further to Erich's excellent comments, fwiw, in the std mono, if full flaps
is causing issues on a short strip, I pull the flaps up partially once airborne
(my speed builds quickly once off the ground), allowing for better climb.
I have not yet found it to be limiting, other than it pops off a bumpy strip
prematurely.
>
> On a typical longer runway, I simply let the speed build to Vx before stowing
the flaps all the way in one motion - typically at 2/3's runway.
>
> In my XS "dream" build, I am leaving them coupled. I like keeping things
simple :)
>
> Cheers
> PeteZ
>
> On Tue., Jun. 1, 2021, 11:50 a.m. Erich Trombley, wrote:
>
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > Glad to hear you had a nice cross country. While it is true I have
the ability to choose something less than full flaps for landing, I make all
my landings full flaps, even in windy/gusty conditions. The view over the nose
is better, plus a lower touchdown speed and less float. As mentioned in my
original post I do, however, use partial flaps for takeoff.
> >
> > With your fly off almost complete, hopefully you are able to make OSH.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Erich
> > N28ET Classic Mono 914
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more
> >
> > On Punishments for Church Sex Abuse, a 'Significant Rewrite'
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> > After Osaka's Surprise Withdrawal, a Lively Debate
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60b65524a912a551840d9st02duc3
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> > ==========
> > pa-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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> > errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
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> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
John,
Thanks for your prompt response. If by "actuator" you're referring to the electric
motor which I believe was originally from a Ford car window motor, I'm happy
to report that I don't have one. My aircraft was converted by the late great
Neville Eyre from monowheel to tri-gear. I took his good advice and retained
the cockpit lever which is now only connected to the flaps; this also saves weight
and complication.
So having checked everything very carefully and also the flap push-pull rod connected
to the lever, I'm quite confident that no damage seems to have occurred.
Thanks again.
Jonathan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502193#502193
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing looks
like! ;-)
PeteZ
On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51
wrote:
> goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
>
> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
Date: Jun 02, 2021
Jonathan,
I'm tied up at the moment and you will all be relieved for a short and fati
gue influenced answer on flap over speeds.
John W gives some sage advice. Inspection after any overspeed or overstres
s is the key to continued airworthiness. Pull the bracket covers, open up
the fuselage D tube and inspect all attachments. Look for cracked glass, d
elamination, and bolts that have elongated.
Some analysis from the top of my very tired head.
In the US the Vfe is supposed to be the speed at which maximum design G can
be loaded momentarily with the flaps extended. This is an iterative probl
em. Once Vfe is set or calculated, then there is another requirement that
the V speed must allow for a 1.3 times overspeed (per se) without exceeding
design structural limits. That was always concerning to me in my studies.
The flap is an airfoil that is fixed to the wing of course and the maximu
m speed of a flap setting has to be at the limit times the safety factors.
Therefore, we see in many aircraft a Vf1, 2 etc. based on the increment of
flap extension speed limits to address the process. So, we see Vf1 of 10
degrees is highest and 20 degrees a little slower, and 30 degrees is quite
low. The Europa was designed for one flap setting.
It is interesting that the flap drive of the Airbus style externally hinged
flap, that our little Europa has, actually takes very little force to exte
nd and retract. (The plain flap extension load is horrendously large in co
mparison.)
These hinged flap designs were brilliant and worth the drag of the brackets
. This extension /retraction force is evident in the mono where extension
and retraction between 60-90 KIAS has virtually no difference in gear exten
sion effort. Yes, the brackets are draggy, but the loads are low and the f
lap efficiency is quite good. One builder even installed a manual flap ext
ension handle (although I don't know who it was, he was a Flight Crafters
client.) Aerodynamically, the pitching moment, lift and drag of the flap i
s calculated and the hinge point of the flap and the drive pin are set to r
educe the load on the drive mechanism, simplify the gap flow accomplishment
, and simplify construction. All brilliantly executed. As a result, I don
't worry as much about the flap drive, I worry more about the flap attach b
rackets in an overspeed.
Looking at the flap sum of forces for this type flap, The force on the fla
ps when extended to nominally 27 degrees is basically a slotted flap with a
lift coefficient of somewhere around 2.0 assumed.
So, the force of lift vertically on the flap is Cl*1/2* (density)* V square
d in fps nominally at 83knots and a roughly 7.5 square foot flap is (2x1/
2x.00237x19643x7.5)=348 pounds of force upwards. The drag on the flap wi
ll be roughly 7 pounds. The pitching moment of the flap will be another co
uple of pounds. The moments are summed through the flap mechanism attach p
oint and the resultant flap drive pin position load is a small number. Sor
ry, I=92m not going to do actual calculations. In a picture it kind of loo
ks like this picture attached. More math in public to follow:
The load at say 1.3 times 83 knot Vfe is nominally 108 knots. Re-plugging
numbers the forces go up significantly: 2x1/2 x.00237x33269x7.5 +590 pound
s of force upwards. If I load the aircraft to full G (3.8 Gs) at 108 knots
, that 590 pounds times 3.8 or 2240 pounds.
So, some poor engineer will calculate all this out for the structural load.
Figuring 50,000 psi (working hand laid glass strength) with a glass thick
ness of .009, 4 layers, the glass to flox gap load bearing area of about 1.
5 square inches (that flox hole in the bracket), and a one foot hinge momen
t arm in a shear mode (roughly half the tensile strength) means, in extrem
ely rough numbers a single bracket will hold 1300 pounds of force times thr
ee brackets or 3900 pounds. Hence the flap attachment is in very rough ter
ms (non exactly measured) about 3900/2240 or 1.74 times stronger than I nee
d, which is greater than my safety factor of 1.5 over the 1.3 V of 108 knot
s (figuring it very roughly) in a max overspeed. Again, very rough numbers
.
If I simply up the load the flap area and stuff and multiply by 1.5 times 1
.5 (the super factor the Europa is designed to) based on the normal 83 knot
forces I'm sure it will come out similarly .
So, the extremely rough numbers give me a ball park confidence that althoug
h I am over speeding my flaps, and must inspect my aircraft attachment poin
ts I will concentrate my inspection on the flap bracket attachment to the f
lap and the wing attach points first. Then I will do a retract test and ma
ke sure my flap rig is correct (bent flap tube is a possibility), then insp
ect my flap drive attachments/welds/glass supports to assure that they are
still sound.
Just my thoughts. Don=92t overspeed the flaps if you can help it. I have
had a number of demo/checkout flights inadvertently extend flaps in the 90
Knot range for the last 15 years on poor old N12AY because they just don=92
t realize how clean the plane is. In a 914 if you don=92t make a very larg
e power reduction from the climbing crosswind to downwind level off, you hi
t 90 Knots pretty quick. Failure to monitor airspeed in the final turn can
build speed rapidly also even with full flaps. I can=92t tell you how many
secondhand owners end up crossing the threshold still doing over 83 Knots.
If you make the speed offender do the inspection panel and cover open up
and then put it back together, they pay attention to the airspeed more clos
ely.
Stay within the limits. IF you exceed them, inspect and repair as necessar
y. Don=92t just rattle the flaps and blow it off.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 4:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
john(at)wighton.net>>
Jonathan,
Well done for 'coming out' over an overspeed occurrence - we have all done
it to a larger or lesser extent and the questions you pose are very relevan
t.
I am not speaking for Europa Aircraft (current or past) or for the Club, ho
wever, generally, the flap limiting speed is determined having conducted a
stress analysis of the whole system. The failure mode that causes the firs
t failure or lowest reserve factor (RF) is associated with a speed within t
he V-N envelope. A suitable factor is applied (which in any case will incl
ude at least 1.5 for LIMIT to ULTIMATE and, most likely, additional factors
such as 1.15 fitting factor (at joints) or even 1.33 (for regularly disman
tled items). For composite structure failures, there are yet more factors
that take into account the environmental influences (e.g. temperature, humi
dity) and variability of build standard.
Regarding loads, as air pressure is proportional to the square of the airsp
eed the loads can rise very quickly. For your overspeed occurrence, the fl
aps would have seen a dynamic pressure of approx 1.45 (i.e. 100^2/83^2 =
1.45, hence 45% overload). By definition this is somewhere between LIMIT a
nd ULTIMATE load levels, hence some detrimental deformation may have occurr
ed.
The tg Owners Manual states "Vfe Maximum flap extended speed is the highest
speed permissible with the flaps in the prescribed extended position".
PoH states Vfe as 83kts. Vfe (max speed for extending/retracting flaps) im
plies the actuator is the weak link. Vf would be a flap limiting speed.
You have done exactly the right thing, you have inspected the system for d
eformation.
It is likely that no damage has occurred at all.
If damage has occurred, the Europa actuator end attachment holes may have o
valised very slightly (rattle tested?) but I suspect the flap end-pin and b
earing (and the attachment into the flap) are
over-engineered and will be unaffected.
Maybe you could add an additional disassembly/inspection to the flap actuat
or end fittings when the aircraft is under it's next scheduled maintenance.
I suspect Bud may also have some useful input!
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Petebelow are my best efforts in that regardI too am
very curious as to what a rigorous analysis will show...Fred
> On Jun 1, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Pete Zut wrote:
>
> Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing
looks like! ;-)
>
> PeteZ
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51 > wrote:
>
>
> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using
OpenFoam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: Jun 01, 2021
Indeed Fred, yours looks =9Cspitfire perfect=9D. Gorgeous!
-PeteZ
> On Jun 1, 2021, at 10:31 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>
> =EF=BBPetebelow are my best efforts in that regardI t
oo am very curious as to what a rigorous analysis will show...Fred
>
>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Pete Zut wrote:
>>
>> Please let us know what the ideal drag-minimizing wing/fuse fairing looks
like! ;-)
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:09 PM Area-51 wr
ote:
com>
>>>
>>> Hi Rowland, basic CFD studies of complete airframe model using OpenFoam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502194#502194
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2021
It will indeed be interesting to see what the CFD results reveal... after years
of playing with this stuff its always surprising in some way; the brain thinks
the air will flow a particular way and it often does something different!
Today involved a more thorough study and data capture session after the mention
of alternate stations along the wing; and indeed they were there when searched
for! Will be interesting to watch the stall response...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502202#502202
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/12e7811b_360b_48ed_bbca_eca9e3da41e7_516.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1a53355e_938d_472c_b56b_fc8b141d07de_250.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/59efe2a7_bb0e_45d9_960d_cee69fb31249_185.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 02, 2021
Bud,
Thanks for taking so much trouble to consider this matter while you were so tired.
You mention that "One builder even installed a manual flap extension handle",
which is what I'm left with after Neville Eyre helped me with my conversion
from mono-wheel to tri-gear. It's remarkable how easy it is to extend and retract
the flaps, even without the benefit of bungees.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502204#502204
________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2021
Subject: Starter Diode
I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as described
with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
Have I got wrong diode.
Any advice appreciated
Dave Park G-LDVO
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "Paul M 383" <europaul383(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2021
JonathanMilbank wrote:
> One of our group members got distracted during climb out after take off, while
the flaps remained extended to 18 degrees. "
Just curious - did you modify your flap drive mechanism to allow selection of 18
degrees as well as the specified 27, or instead of?
Paul
G-PLPM
XS Mono 912ULS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502214#502214
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
When we scanned the Europa we used paint that was washed off afterwards. It is
commonly used by street artists. An initial attempt without paint led to big
gaps in the cloud data.
I like the root fairings, they look a bit like Frans Veldmans who was highly active
in Europa modifications. Whatever happened to Frans?
The tape is probably a better idea, as it limits the data - although there are
some coordinates for the sections along the wing - we used them years ago in
xfoil.
John W
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502215#502215
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
Interested to know what polar results Xfoil popped out there John! Would still
want to cross reference results to those of Ansys Fluent though.
On 3d scanning; shiny surfaces are the devil... dead flat non-reflective surface
is going to save a lot of mumbling...water soluble hair spray and talcum powder
dust is a magic formula! Plenty of reference dots are required too... washoff
flat spray paint costs a bit more :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502217#502217
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
Paul,
While my aircraft was a mono, the combined flap / undercarriage lever had the standard
detents which held the lever either at fully retracted or fully down 27
degrees. When I decided after almost 20 years flying as a mono to convert to
tri-gear, Neville Eyre told me to support the aircraft in order to partly retract
the gear and use a clinometer to measure an intermediate flap position of
18 degrees. While the flaps were at that angle, I leaned into the cockpit and
marked on the slotted guide plate the position of the lever.
Neville then cut the guide plate in situ to create an intermediate 18 degree detent
notch, which happens to lie approximately halfway along the slot. Thereafter
we set about removing the mono-wheel swing arm, linkage and other unnecessary
components to leave just the lever connected to the flap push-pull rod.
Why Neville specified 18 degrees is something I never questioned, but we use that
intermediate setting for take off on the assumption that it reduces drag while
still augmenting low speed lift. It also occurs to me that if there existed
a graph or table giving different Vfe speeds for various flap settings, then
the Vfe for 18 degrees would be considerably higher than 83 knots; perhaps a
lot closer to 100 knots.
That was a long-winded explanation where I could simply have replied 'as well as'.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502218#502218
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: US Fly-In Interest?
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
With COVID rules relaxing, how about a Europa fly-in / gathering? Were considering
New River Gorge in West Virginia. There are lots of potential activities,
check it out online. Beckley, KBKW is the nearest public airport and there
are nearby hotels. We can try to arrange a block of rooms and a rental vehicle.
Either weekend June 19-20 or June 26-27 are good for us. If interested, reply
here or email america(at)theeuropaclub.org. Everyone is welcome, club membership
not required.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502227#502227
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Frans bought a yacht and is sailing around the world last I heard. We
haven't talked since we collaborated on our cooling drag reduction project
years ago.. You can catch him on Twitter from time to time. I believe that
his fairings were provided by Fred if I'm not mistaken. - Paul
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM John Wighton wrote:
>
> When we scanned the Europa we used paint that was washed off afterwards.
> It is commonly used by street artists. An initial attempt without paint
> led to big gaps in the cloud data.
>
> I like the root fairings, they look a bit like Frans Veldman=99s wh
o was
> highly active in Europa modifications. Whatever happened to Frans?
>
> The tape is probably a better idea, as it limits the data - although
> there are some coordinates for the sections along the wing - we used them
> years ago in xfoil.
>
> John W
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502215#502215
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
Subject: Re: US Fly-In Interest?
Sounds like a great idea. 26 27 June would work best for us
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 11:45 AM h&jeuropa wrote:
>
> With COVID rules relaxing, how about a Europa fly-in / gathering? We
=99re
> considering New River Gorge in West Virginia. There are lots of potentia
l
> activities, check it out online. Beckley, KBKW is the nearest public
> airport and there are nearby hotels. We can try to arrange a block of
> rooms and a rental vehicle. Either weekend June 19-20 or June 26-27 are
> good for us. If interested, reply here or email america(at)theeuropaclub.or
g.
> Everyone is welcome, club membership not required.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502227#502227
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
Thanks Paul, l am not so surprised about the sailing adventure. Frans was very
foreword thinking, it wouldnt surprise me at all if he had a stash of Bitcoin
from Day 1.
We met as he was based near Hoogeveen, l was acting as a delegated signatory for
Fokkers A380 wing assemblies at the time.
His Europa was highly modified, something that surprised me as the Dutch NVAV and
authority ILT seemed pretty hot on the need to grant approvals per Mod.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502233#502233
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "Paul M 383" <europaul383(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2021
JonathanMilbank wrote:
> ...create an intermediate 18 degree detent notch, which happens to lie approximately
halfway along the slot...
>
> Why Neville specified 18 degrees is something I never questioned, ... if ...
different Vfe speeds for varying flap settings, then ... Vfe for 18 degrees would
be considerably higher than 83 knots; perhaps a lot closer to 100 knots.
>
> That was a long-winded explanation where I could simply have replied 'as well
as'.
Yes it was (:-D), but it answers my question, thanks.
Might 18 be the takeoff flap setting for a Trigear? I don't have one but you do
and I guess it's in the Owner's Manual? This might then answer your question
(on Vfe for 18) ... if you read Bud's reply and do some math(s).
HTH
P
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502236#502236
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Jun 04, 2021
Paul,
You're dead right. I logged into the Europa Club's website and found on page 5-6
under Pre-take off check list (vital actions) this: Flaps Check 18 down. On
page 2-1 under Limitations, all that is shown for flaps is Max. Flap extension
speed (VFE ) 83kts.
However my math abilities don't extend to calculating a Vfe for 18 degrees extension,
but thanks anyway for your involvement.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502241#502241
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
Date: Jun 04, 2021
Hi! All.
I recall that flap setting for take off on trike G-PTAG was 18Deg.
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Paul M 383
Sent: 04 June 2021 02:16
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Flap limiting speed 83 kts exceeded
-->
JonathanMilbank wrote:
> ...create an intermediate 18 degree detent notch, which happens to lie
approximately halfway along the slot...
>
> Why Neville specified 18 degrees is something I never questioned, ... if
... different Vfe speeds for varying flap settings, then ... Vfe for 18
degrees would be considerably higher than 83 knots; perhaps a lot closer to
100 knots.
>
> That was a long-winded explanation where I could simply have replied 'as
well as'.
Yes it was (:-D), but it answers my question, thanks.
Might 18 be the takeoff flap setting for a Trigear? I don't have one but
you do and I guess it's in the Owner's Manual? This might then answer your
question (on Vfe for 18) ... if you read Bud's reply and do some math(s).
HTH
P
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502236#502236
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Front Wheel Fairing
From: "BobD" <rjdawson14(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 04, 2021
Does anyone have the front half of the TriGear front wheel fairing they would be
willing to let me buy ?
If so, please send me a PM with details
Cheers
--------
Bob Dawson
Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502244#502244
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: Jun 05, 2021
Hi! All,
Just out of interest Frans Veldman and Iloona Koostra now have a
catamaran and are in the southern middle of the Pacific.
They can be hooked up with on Utube under the cat name of zwerfcat
nl . she has a very pleasant video for you to scan . Unfortunately I am
not U-Tube familiar so when the U tube buffs find a proper kink please
advise and return the favour.
Regards Bob Harrison Ex G-PTAG .
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Sent: 03 June 2021 17:55
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Frans bought a yacht and is sailing around the world last I heard. We
haven't talked since we collaborated on our cooling drag reduction
project years ago.. You can catch him on Twitter from time to time. I
believe that his fairings were provided by Fred if I'm not mistaken. -
Paul
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM John Wighton > wrote:
>
When we scanned the Europa we used paint that was washed off afterwards.
It is commonly used by street artists. An initial attempt without
paint led to big gaps in the cloud data.
I like the root fairings, they look a bit like Frans Veldman=99s
who was highly active in Europa modifications. Whatever happened to
Frans?
The tape is probably a better idea, as it limits the data - although
there are some coordinates for the sections along the wing - we used
them years ago in xfoil.
John W
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502215#502215
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fklein(at)orcasonline.com" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
Date: Jun 05, 2021
> On Jun 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net wrote:
>
> I like the root fairings, they look a bit like Frans Veldman=99s
who was highly active in Europa modifications. Whatever happened to
Frans?
Here=99s a photo of Frans=99 hightop trigger Europaye
s, I provided Frans with his wing root fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Dave,
I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace i
s the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must
be grounded.
Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the d
iode. Another problem is guys don=92t insulate the anode side of the diode
and it shorts.
The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pract
ice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa
Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
IN5404[cid:image001.png(at)01D75B0E.9AC39E20]
silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter switch
tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the sta
rter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening
bolt to the main firewall ground.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of david park
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
748(at)me.com>>
I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as des
cribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
Have I got wrong diode.
Any advice appreciated
Dave Park G-LDVO
%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756
a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
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2FA4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Dave,
OOPS. Look at the diagram, I misspoke. The cathode side on a solenoid spa
de contact and the anode or positive goes to the ground.
It=92s getting late and the mind is a terrible thing.
Follow the pictures in the Bob Knuckles book or the Europa Electrical Diagr
am.
Goodnight,
Bud Yerly
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2021 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Starter Diode
Dave,
I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace i
s the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must
be grounded.
Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the d
iode. Another problem is guys don=92t insulate the anode side of the diode
and it shorts.
The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pract
ice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa
Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
IN5404[cid:image002.png(at)01D75B10.86931730]
silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter switch
tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the sta
rter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening
bolt to the main firewall ground.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com> > On Behalf Of david park
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
748(at)me.com>>
I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as des
cribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
Have I got wrong diode.
Any advice appreciated
Dave Park G-LDVO
- The Europa-List Email Forum -
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O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airfoil Profiles
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2021
What an awesome looking europa!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502257#502257
________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Bud,
Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not swi
tch.
Regards
Dave Park
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Dave,
> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>
> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace i
s the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid must b
e grounded.
> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the d
iode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of the d
iode and it shorts.
>
> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted prac
tice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europa
Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>
> IN5404
> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter switc
h tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the sta
rter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening b
olt to the main firewall ground.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>
>
> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as de
scribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
> Have I got wrong diode.
> Any advice appreciated
>
> Dave Park G-LDVO
>
>
> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw
ww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189a
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64812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB
TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t6
u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
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0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&r
eserved=0
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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ww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61755
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X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Are you sure the diode is not faulty?
You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resist
ance one way and low the other.
Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>
> =EF=BBBud,
> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not s
witch.
> Regards
> Dave Park
>
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Dave,
>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>
>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grace
is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid mus
t be grounded.
>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on the
diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of th
e diode and it shorts.
>>
>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pra
ctice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Europ
a Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>
>> IN5404
>>
>>
>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter swit
ch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the st
arter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastening
bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>
>>
>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as d
escribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
>> Have I got wrong diode.
>> Any advice appreciated
>>
>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>
>>
>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw
ww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189a
f0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825
64812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB
TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t6
u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
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0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&r
eserved=0
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ww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61755
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X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Allan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
Dave Park
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>
> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>
> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high resi
stance one way and low the other.
>
> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BBBud,
>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not s
witch.
>> Regards
>> Dave Park
>>
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Dave,
>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>
>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving grac
e is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid mu
st be grounded.
>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on th
e diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t
he diode and it shorts.
>>>
>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted pr
actice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Euro
pa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>
>>> IN5404
>>>
>>>
>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter swi
tch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s
tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin
g bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Bud Yerly
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@m
atronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>
>>>
>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as d
escribed with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>
>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>
>>>
>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a18
9af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63758
2564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC
JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9
t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f
6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkn
own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC
I6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D
&reserved=0
>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f
1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknow
n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&
;reserved=0
>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b617
5508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126306
92%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO
38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: XS Tail wheel assembly
From: "flyingphil2" <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Hi,
I'm looking for all the parts to make a complete XS tailwheel assembly.
I ideally want new, unused parts - does anyone have any bits lying around that
they'd like to sell?
Thanks,
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502262#502262
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
I=99m asking if you did it by accident, I know what happens=F0=9F=98
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:11, david park wrote:
>
> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>
> Dave Park
>
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>
>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high res
istance one way and low the other.
>>
>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not
switch.
>>> Regards
>>> Dave Park
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB
>>>> Dave,
>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gra
ce is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m
ust be grounded.
>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t
he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t
he diode and it shorts.
>>>>
>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p
ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur
opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>
>>>> IN5404
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter sw
itch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s
tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin
g bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@
matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as
described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>
>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1
89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375
82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby
9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925
f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3
D&reserved=0
>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6
f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno
wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am
p;reserved=0
>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61
75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630
692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X
O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Hello Dave,
I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you wa
nt to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter mot
or side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter swi
tch) side of the solenoid.
If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the eng
ine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full curre
nt of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it cond
ucts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), th
e diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes thro
ugh the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the coll
apsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high voltage
spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits the
current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and probab
ly should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says.
Best regards
Kingsley in Oz.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>
> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>
> Dave Park
>
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>
>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high res
istance one way and low the other.
>>
>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? Not
switch.
>>> Regards
>>> Dave Park
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BB
>>>> Dave,
>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gra
ce is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m
ust be grounded.
>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t
he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t
he diode and it shorts.
>>>>
>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p
ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur
opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>
>>>> IN5404
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter sw
itch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the s
tarter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fastenin
g bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@
matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was as
described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth?
>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>
>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1
89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375
82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby
9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925
f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3
D&reserved=0
>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6
f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno
wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am
p;reserved=0
>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61
75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630
692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X
O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts for
the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There is n
o diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at least
not my version.
With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathode o
r marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter coil
, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button release
the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coil a
nd can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the cont
acts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen.
If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will not w
ork, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test to
ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem of c
ourse.
Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun
.=F0=9F=A4=A9
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>
> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you w
ant to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
>
> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m
otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s
witch) side of the solenoid.
>
> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e
ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur
rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
>
> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it co
nducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
>
> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch), t
he diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes thr
ough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the col
lapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high voltag
e spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits th
e current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
>
> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and prob
ably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says.
>
> Best regards
> Kingsley in Oz.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>
>> Dave Park
>>
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>
>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high re
sistance one way and low the other.
>>>
>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? No
t switch.
>>>> Regards
>>>> Dave Park
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving gr
ace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid m
ust be grounded.
>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on t
he diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side of t
he diode and it shorts.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted p
ractice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The Eur
opa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>>
>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s
witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the
starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten
ing bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server
@matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a
s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth
?
>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a1
89af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375
82564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby
9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925
f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3
D&reserved=0
>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6
f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnkno
wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&am
p;reserved=0
>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b61
75508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630
692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4X
O38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Thanks everyone, happy now=F0=9F=98=84=F0=9F=98=84=F0=9F=98=84
Dave Park
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 11:00, Alan Burrill wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts f
or the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There i
s no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at le
ast not my version.
>
> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathod
e or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter c
oil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button rele
ase the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coi
l and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the c
ontacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen.
>
> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will no
t work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test
to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o
f course.
>
> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun
.=F0=9F=A4=A9
>
> Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote
:
>>>
>> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>>
>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you
want to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
>>
>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m
otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s
witch) side of the solenoid.
>>
>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e
ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur
rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
>>
>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it c
onducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
>>
>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch),
the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes t
hrough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the c
ollapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high volt
age spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits t
he current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
>>
>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and pro
bably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Kingsley in Oz.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>>
>>> Dave Park
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>>
>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high r
esistance one way and low the other.
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? N
ot switch.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving g
race is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid
must be grounded.
>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on
the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o
f the diode and it shorts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted
practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The E
uropa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s
witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the
starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten
ing bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a
s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth
?
>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756
a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7582564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI
iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZ
by9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9
25f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CU
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM
%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925
f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk
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CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&
amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b
6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126
30692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
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4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
=EF=BBHello Alan,
I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the starter m
otor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening paragraph.
Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the errors i
n my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not engaged properly a
fter 8 hrs of driving today.
Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour.
Regards
Kingsley.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill wrote:
> =EF=BB
>
>
> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts f
or the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There i
s no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at le
ast not my version.
>
> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cathod
e or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter c
oil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button rele
ase the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the coi
l and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the c
ontacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen.
>
> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will no
t work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a test
to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o
f course.
>
> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun
.=F0=9F=A4=A9
>
> Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>>
>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume you
want to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
>>
>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starter m
otor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starter s
witch) side of the solenoid.
>>
>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting the e
ngine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full cur
rent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
>>
>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it c
onducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
>>
>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch),
the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes t
hrough the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the c
ollapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high volt
age spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuits t
he current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
>>
>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and pro
bably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Kingsley in Oz.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>>
>>> Dave Park
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>>
>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high r
esistance one way and low the other.
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth? N
ot switch.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving g
race is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the solenoid
must be grounded.
>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting on
the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o
f the diode and it shorts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accepted
practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The E
uropa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starter s
witch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on the
starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fasten
ing bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation was a
s described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to earth
?
>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756
a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7582564812620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI
iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZ
by9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9
25f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CU
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM
%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925
f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnk
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
CI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&
amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b
6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648126
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4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Kingsley, no problem here and I was just ensuring with the diagram that
everyone contributing had access to the same info.
I think Dave has indicated he has the answer - he might even share what
was causing the problem. =F0=9F=98
Alan
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:02, Kingsley Hurst
wrote:
>
> =EF=BBHello Alan,
>
> I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the
starter motor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening
paragraph.
>
> Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the
errors in my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not
engaged properly after 8 hrs of driving today.
>
> Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour.
>
> Regards
> Kingsley.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill > wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>>
>>
>> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the
contacts for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual
above. There is no diode across the starter motor shown in the build
manual diagram, at least not my version.
>>
>> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the
cathode or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the
starter coil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the
starter button release the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an
opposite voltage in the coil and can spark across the starter switch
contacts eventually damaging the contacts, the diode shorts out this so
the spark does not happen.
>>
>> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid
will not work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode
connected as a test to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode
that=99s the problem of course.
>>
>> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email
fun.=F0=9F=A4=A9
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst
wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>>>
>>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I
assume you want to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
>>>
>>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the
starter motor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the
positive (starter switch) side of the solenoid.
>>>
>>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting
the engine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the
full current of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
>>>
>>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure
it conducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
>>>
>>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key
switch), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the
current passes through the solenoid. On releasing the starter button
(or key switch), the collapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid
tries to induce a high voltage spike but this is swamped by the diode
because the diode short circuits the current induced by the collapsing
magnetic field in the coil.
>>>
>>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could
and probably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual
says.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Kingsley in Oz.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>>>>
>>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>>>
>>>> Dave Park
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>>>
>>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be
high resistance one way and low the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to
Earth? Not switch.
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the
saving grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course,
the solenoid must be grounded.
>>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when
putting on the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate
the anode side of the diode and it shorts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an
accepted practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter
solenoid. The Europa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404
but any will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the
starter switch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt
holding on the starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from
the solenoid fastening bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of david park
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation
was as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end
to earth?
>>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>>>>> -->
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matr
onics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42
b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6375825648
12620700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=d2yFiqBfE8TCD9qLmlbZwUHkZby9t
6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>>>>>> -->
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.m
atronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7
C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown%7
CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
n0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUhMM%3D&
amp;reserved=0
>>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>>>>> -->
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.mat
ronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C8
4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7CUnknown%7CT
WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3D&
reserved=0
>>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>>> -->
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matr
onics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d92
5f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637582564812630692%7C
Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi
LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2F4PsRd1psVqvnaU7%2FNqFY9pTbwXM%2FA4XO3
8X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
________________________________________________________________________________
From: david park <dpark748(at)me.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Diode
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Ptroblem started while rewiring a new panel and engine would not start due t
o a different problem. When looking to replace diode I got confused with dif
fering advice and written instructions, but was sure it should be as diagra
m.
All good now ready for continental adventures again??
Regards
Dave Park
> On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:29, Alan Burrill wrote:
>
> =EF=BBKingsley, no problem here and I was just ensuring with the diagra
m that everyone contributing had access to the same info.
>
> I think Dave has indicated he has the answer - he might even share what wa
s causing the problem. =F0=9F=98
>
> Alan
>
>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:02, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BBHello Alan,
>>
>> I wasn=99t intending to infer the diode should be across the starte
r motor as I clearly said starter solenoid in my opening paragraph.
>>
>> Without digging a deeper hole for myself, I offer no excuses for the erro
rs in my posting other than to say my brain was obviously not engaged proper
ly after 8 hrs of driving today.
>>
>> Please accept my apology (and you too Dave) for my misdemeanour.
>>
>> Regards
>> Kingsley.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 8:19 pm, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>>
>>>
>>> The diode is connected across the starter solenoid coil not the contacts
for the starter motor as per the extract from the build manual above. There
is no diode across the starter motor shown in the build manual diagram, at l
east not my version.
>>>
>>> With 12v positive on the starter contacter coil the diode, with the cath
ode or marked end of the diode connected to positive terminal of the starter
coil, is reverse biased and so will not conduct. When the starter button re
lease the falling emf, magnetic field, produces an opposite voltage in the c
oil and can spark across the starter switch contacts eventually damaging the
contacts, the diode shorts out this so the spark does not happen.
>>>
>>> If the diode is shorted out, or the wrong way round, then solenoid will n
ot work, assuming the solenoid will operate without diode connected as a tes
t to ensure it=99s the wiring of the diode that=99s the problem o
f course.
>>>
>>> Isn=99t explaining electrical problems by email fun
.=F0=9F=A4=A9
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 10:44, Kingsley Hurst wro
te:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BBHello Dave,
>>>>
>>>> I haven=99t got your previous posts in front of me but I assume y
ou want to put the diode across the starter solenoid.
>>>>
>>>> If my assumption is correct, you should connect the anode to the starte
r motor side of the starter solenoid and the cathode to the positive (starte
r switch) side of the solenoid.
>>>>
>>>> If you have had it connected the other way around and tried starting th
e engine, the diode would have been forward biased trying to carry the full c
urrent of the starter motor and more than likely will be ruined.
>>>>
>>>> Either check the diode with a multi meter ( on ohms scale) to ensure it
conducts in one direction but not the other or use a new diode.
>>>>
>>>> When connected correctly, on pressing the starter button (or key switch
), the diode is reverse biased and has no effect..... all the current passes
through the solenoid. On releasing the starter button (or key switch), the
collapsing magnetic field in the starter solenoid tries to induce a high vo
ltage spike but this is swamped by the diode because the diode short circuit
s the current induced by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this hasn=99t made it more confusing for you. I could and p
robably should have just said ..... connect it like the manual says.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Kingsley in Oz.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 7:17 pm, david park wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BBAllan have you put ANODE to switch contact?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:35, Alan Burrill wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> =EF=BBAre you sure the diode is not faulty?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can check it with an meter set to read resistance. Should be high
resistance one way and low the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you tried connecting it the other way round?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 09:02, david park wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =EF=BBBud,
>>>>>>> Still confused as Europa Manual wiring diagram shows Anode to Earth?
Not switch.
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Dave Park
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jun 2021, at 01:06, Bud Yerly wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>> I didn't see anyone commented on your diode.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pretty much any diode will do. If you get it backwards, the saving
grace is the start solenoid is looking for 12 volts. Of course, the soleno
id must be grounded.
>>>>>>>> Most mistakes are the ground is left off the solenoid when putting o
n the diode. Another problem is guys don=99t insulate the anode side o
f the diode and it shorts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Rotax manual doesn't comment on the diode. But it is an accept
ed practice to extend the life of the contacts in the starter solenoid. The
Europa Electrical Chapter 25 advises to use an IN5404 but any will do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IN5404
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> silicone diode is shown above. Anode or plus side is on the starte
r switch tab and the cathode or negative goes to the ground bolt holding on t
he starter solenoid. I use at least a #18 or 16 wire from the solenoid fast
ening bolt to the main firewall ground.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>> Bud Yerly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-ser
ver(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of david park
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2021 2:44 PM
>>>>>>>> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Starter Diode
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I fitted a starter Diode and engine would not start. Orientation wa
s as described with band end cathode on starter terminal and other end to ea
rth?
>>>>>>>> Have I got wrong diode.
>>>>>>>> Any advice appreciated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave Park G-LDVO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - The Europa-List Email Forum -
>>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A
%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C47
56a189af0d42b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
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kZby9t6u3YMcNESeUVsc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508
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CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SBC%2BHeUkzr3LiivK88gfvqg0yBuA5ly76yuWCWUUh
MM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A
%2F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d42b6175508d9
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nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o8qJjaCYZwDfnYZL5ZTUYwVjcHuo0CD7LEX42XsDfhY%3
D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>>>> --> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A
%2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4756a189af0d4
2b6175508d925f6f1c0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63758256481
2630692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
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FA4XO38X5pjT4sc%3D&reserved=0
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly
From: "Area-51" <goldsteinindustrial(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2021
Make sure you apply Mod77 when you fit the tailwheel assembly; its made a huge
difference to affective ground control on the aircraft... flew circuits for the
first time yesterday after fitting the mod and found it more precise and responsive
to minor rudder inputs and ability to maintain centerline... finding it
no more challenging than a Motorfalke to handle on the ground.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502278#502278
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly
Date: Jun 07, 2021
PhilWhile I recognize you as a highly experienced Europa
builder, I pass along two modifications to the stock Europa tailwheel
which have been recommended to me by others.
First, add a stop to prevent the tailwheel from rotating more than
approximately 30 deg in either direction...shown below is a half inch
thick aluminum stopmine came to me as part of the Singleton
tail wheel mod.
Second, I cut off the ears of the stock fitting and made up a bracket
from 1/8=9D 4130 plate configured to a design suggested to me by
William Mills, RIP, which has two beneficial attributes: there are 3
sets of holes which allow for adjusting the sensitivity of rudder pedal
inputs(the outermost set of holes for the novice and allowing
for less sensitivity, and by using the innermost sets of holes the
result is less sensitivity and decreased turning radius) and
the sets of holes are further forward than the holes in the stock
=9Cears=9D so that string lines dropping thru the holes are
perfectly aligned with the vertical tail wheel pivot rod which decreases
the strain on the entire assembly.
PS: Ignore the bronze split-bolts shown in lieu of the second set of
nicopress sleeves.
> On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:27 AM, flyingphil2
wrote:
> I'm looking for all the parts to make a complete XS tailwheel
assembly.
> I ideally want new, unused parts - does anyone have any bits lying
around that they'd like to sell?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502262#502262
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
Date: Jun 08, 2021
Subject: Auto pilot pitch control.
I seem to remember at some time seeing where a Europa builder put the auto pilot
pitch servo on the floor in front of the control column with the push rod connected
to the elevator circuit via the bottom of the control column mechanism.
I would very much appreciate it if someone can advise me who incorporated this
idea please or point me in the direction of photos of same.
Was it Ira Rampil by any chance?
Many thanks
Kingsley in Oz.
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Europa Monowheel - Cross Country Flying Machine
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2021
Erich and others,
Thanks for your input on the flap position on landing. Excellent info and it really
makes me realize that I just need to learn to land the mono. so for now I
will not think about any mods until I build more time in it.
I really wanted to do OSH but my father is falling ill and need to use vacation
time to go visit him (he's in Spain). So no OSH this year. In a way I think I
want to build a little more time in it before going there anyway. I am a big
fan of Triple Tree and will really try to go there if I can. It happens in September.
A little closer and can be done with minimal time off from work. That's
a nice grass runway for the mono!
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502291#502291
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly
Phil, Sorry to disagree with Fred but I feel strongly you do not want to
limit tailwheel travel to 30 degrees. I too have the Singleton mod and
as you can see it allows the tail wheel to turn around 80 degrees in
either direction. This is a great help in manoeuvring either whilst
taxying or pulling the plane around in the hangar. Experienced mono
pilots can almost pivot on the main wheel with a judicious use of
throttle and brake.(Emphasis on judicious - overdo it and you go A over
T and break the prop). I have no figures for it but I would be very
surprised if you need as much as 20 degree tail wheel turn in the
process of landing or T/O, where the emphasis should be on sticking
meticulously to a straight line, correcting any deviation sooner rather
than later. I understand the function of the stop is to prevent the
wheel twisting beyond 90 degrees when the rudder cables would be crossed
and rudder action would make things worse rather than going back to
neutral position.
Regards, David Joyce GXSDJ
On 2021-06-08 06:19, Fred Klein wrote:
> Phil...While I recognize you as a highly experienced Europa builder, I
> pass along two modifications to the stock Europa tailwheel which have
> been recommended to me by others.
>
> First, add a stop to prevent the tailwheel from rotating more than
> approximately 30 deg in either direction...shown below is a half inch
> thick aluminum stop...mine came to me as part of the Singleton tail
> wheel mod.
>
> Second, I cut off the ears of the stock fitting and made up a bracket
> from 1/8" 4130 plate configured to a design suggested to me by William
> Mills, RIP, which has two beneficial attributes: there are 3 sets of
> holes which allow for adjusting the sensitivity of rudder pedal
> inputs...(the outermost set of holes for the novice and allowing for
> less sensitivity, and by using the innermost sets of holes the result
> is less sensitivity and decreased turning radius)... and the sets of
> holes are further forward than the holes in the stock "ears" so that
> string lines dropping thru the holes are perfectly aligned with the
> vertical tail wheel pivot rod which decreases the strain on the entire
> assembly.
>
> PS: Ignore the bronze split-bolts shown in lieu of the second set of
> nicopress sleeves.
>
>> On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:27 AM, flyingphil2
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for all the parts to make a complete XS tailwheel
>> assembly.
>> I ideally want new, unused parts - does anyone have any bits lying
>> around that they'd like to sell?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502262#502262
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2021
Subject: Re: Auto pilot pitch control.
Kingsley
I put my lateral servo on the cockpit floor and the pitch in the rear
fuse...if you want pics let me know
if that helps
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:55 AM Kingsley Hurst
wrote:
> kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
>
> I seem to remember at some time seeing where a Europa builder put the auto
> pilot pitch servo on the floor in front of the control column with the push
> rod connected to the elevator circuit via the bottom of the control column
> mechanism.
>
> I would very much appreciate it if someone can advise me who incorporated
> this idea please or point me in the direction of photos of same.
>
> Was it Ira Rampil by any chance?
>
> Many thanks
> Kingsley in Oz.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2021
Subject: Re: Auto pilot pitch control.
That was probably me. I'll see if I still have some photos of what I did.
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 5:55 AM Kingsley Hurst
wrote:
> kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
>
> I seem to remember at some time seeing where a Europa builder put the auto
> pilot pitch servo on the floor in front of the control column with the push
> rod connected to the elevator circuit via the bottom of the control column
> mechanism.
>
> I would very much appreciate it if someone can advise me who incorporated
> this idea please or point me in the direction of photos of same.
>
> Was it Ira Rampil by any chance?
>
> Many thanks
> Kingsley in Oz.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 09, 2021
Subject: G-GIWT air tests
A problem on my early flights, when I transmit, trim indicator goes dim and eventually
trim does not work if radio used a lot.
Radio savvy friend told me to isolate radio antenna by substituting my handheld
Arial, this worked but only to prove I and an antenna/ trim issue. My radio man
has given me two ferrite sleeves to fit around the trim indicator cables which
he suspects are the issue; but he recommended that I ask the Europa community
who have no doubt seen this issue.
I have carefully routed trim cables on port side of fuselage and antenna on Stbd.
I await the Miriad of expert experience guys.
Thanks
Alan Twigg
Europa Motorglider
Kit 463
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fklein(at)orcasonline.com" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly
Date: Jun 09, 2021
Davidyou wrote:
"Sorry to disagree with Fred but I feel strongly you do not want to
limit tailwheel travel to 30 degrees. I too have the Singleton mod and
as you can see it allows the tail wheel to turn around 80 degrees in
either direction.=9D
Of course I defer to your judgement and experience on all matters
EuropaI believe I had written to limit tailwheel travel to 30
deg. in either direction, and I had just eyeballed the 30 deg. from my
build photoit may well be closer to 40 deg. in either direction
which would yield the 80 deg. you mention which appears to be what your
photo indicates.
As I recall, Graham=99s instructions called for dressing the
limiting block so that it mates with the tail spring when tailwheel
rotates to its max. Some additional dressing of my install may be called
for.
Thanks for your comment,
Fred
> On Jun 8, 2021, at 8:25 AM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> Phil, Sorry to disagree with Fred but I feel strongly you do not want
to limit tailwheel travel to 30 degrees. I too have the Singleton mod
and as you can see it allows the tail wheel to turn around 80 degrees in
either direction. This is a great help in manoeuvring either whilst
taxying or pulling the plane around in the hangar. Experienced mono
pilots can almost pivot on the main wheel with a judicious use of
throttle and brake.(Emphasis on judicious - overdo it and you go A over
T and break the prop). I have no figures for it but I would be very
surprised if you need as much as 20 degree tail wheel turn in the
process of landing or T/O, where the emphasis should be on sticking
meticulously to a straight line, correcting any deviation sooner rather
than later. I understand the function of the stop is to prevent the
wheel twisting beyond 90 degrees when the rudder cables would be crossed
and rudder action would make things worse rather than going back to
neutral position.
>
> Regards, David Joyce GXSDJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 09, 2021
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
I haven't seen this issue but I did have an issue with my glass panels and
I successfully used ferrite beads to resolve my problem. If possible loop
the wires through the bead a couple of times.
On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:21 AM Alan Twigg wrote:
>
> A problem on my early flights, when I transmit, trim indicator goes dim
> and eventually trim does not work if radio used a lot.
> Radio savvy friend told me to isolate radio antenna by substituting my
> handheld Arial, this worked but only to prove I and an antenna/ trim issue.
> My radio man has given me two ferrite sleeves to fit around the trim
> indicator cables which he suspects are the issue; but he recommended that I
> ask the Europa community who have no doubt seen this issue.
> I have carefully routed trim cables on port side of fuselage and antenna
> on Stbd.
> I await the Miriad of expert experience guys.
> Thanks
> Alan Twigg
> Europa Motorglider
> Kit 463
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
From: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2021
Alan,
My trim indicator also goes berserk when I press the PTT. Per Becker recommendation
I moved the radio's power feed away from the avionics power bus and connected
it directly to the battery bus, with its own inline fuse.
This was done more to reduce noise that was being injected by my Garmin 496 mounted
in the panel (this thing is incredibly noisy) than to fix the trim indicator
issue. BTW, my effort was placed mostly on having a dead quiet electrical
system (from an audio standpoint) and I was extremely successful in doing this.
The only thing I can hear in the air is the processor in my tablet doing a little
work once in a while :)
Back to the trim issue, I just ignore it. When I am flying I don't even realize
this happens as I'm generally not looking at the trim indicator when I press
the PTT. If you must fix it
Best,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502309#502309
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XS Tail wheel assembly
From: "flyingphil2" <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2021
Thanks for all of your comments on this - it's really useful.
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502310#502310
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: One radio many sound inputs
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: Jun 10, 2021
Hello All,
As my lovely gauges arrived for the Europa, they all seem to have SOUND outputs.
Meanwhile, my XCOM 760 Radio has a single "MUSIC" input.
Looking for Audio Panels, I find lovely bits of kit from $2000 to $7000 which seems
excessive on a 2 place homebuilt. Meanwhile, I can buy a HiFi Quality sound
mixer meant for street buskers for around $65 - most of these will require
a voltage converter from 12v to the classic USB 5v, but otherwise very cheap.
What are other builders doing ?
I have 2 x AV30 that can scream at you if you exceed AOA, The Kanardia airspeed
indicator that can warn if exceeded VNE etc, even my trusty old Garmin 296 can
speak to me in UK English (have not had this working yet), plus a stall warner
and so on, so I am thinking I will need around 4 to 6 sound inputs to feed
my XCOM radio if I wish the sound to be played over the headsets. Once reasonable
levels are set, I will not likely need to adjust the input sound levels.
My Bose A20 already has a music input jack point, so I actually have that bit covered.
Thoughts ?
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502313#502313
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
Trevor, I refitted my panel a couple of years back with a G5 Touch
system and all the bells and whistles. It needed an audio panel to blend
all the inputs but I didn't want to make room on the panel for a surface
mounted one. It was a relief, planning wise and financially when my
electronic guru recommended the Gretz Aero audio mixer, available from
Aircraft Spruce for a mere 160 dollars. No voltage reducer needed. It
fits inside the panel readily accessible(for initial set up) behind my
right hand removable sub panel. It has worked faultlessly since.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-06-10 23:36, trevord wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> As my lovely gauges arrived for the Europa, they all seem to have SOUND
> outputs. Meanwhile, my XCOM 760 Radio has a single "MUSIC" input.
>
> Looking for Audio Panels, I find lovely bits of kit from $2000 to $7000
> which seems excessive on a 2 place homebuilt. Meanwhile, I can buy a
> HiFi Quality sound mixer meant for street buskers for around $65 - most
> of these will require a voltage converter from 12v to the classic USB
> 5v, but otherwise very cheap.
>
> What are other builders doing ?
>
> I have 2 x AV30 that can scream at you if you exceed AOA, The Kanardia
> airspeed indicator that can warn if exceeded VNE etc, even my trusty
> old Garmin 296 can speak to me in UK English (have not had this working
> yet), plus a stall warner and so on, so I am thinking I will need
> around 4 to 6 sound inputs to feed my XCOM radio if I wish the sound to
> be played over the headsets. Once reasonable levels are set, I will not
> likely need to adjust the input sound levels.
>
> My Bose A20 already has a music input jack point, so I actually have
> that bit covered.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> --------
> Trevor
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502313#502313
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: Jun 11, 2021
Thanks David,
This looks perfect functionally - great to hear you had reliable service.
Just a couple of further questions...
What radio do you have that it feeds into ? I have read that the XCOM760 does not
work properly unless with an aircraft audio panel - something to do with impedance
.... or do you feed the radio INTO the Gretz and then from the Gretz to
the headset ?
The "range" of input/outputs suggest that it can do both.
I guess the downside would be if everything goes through the Gretz and then to
the headset, then if it fails, I would lose the radio also ...
Thanks again, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for... I also have
no panel space !
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502324#502324
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
Trevor< I am embarrassed to say that I found myself with about 20,000
surplus insurance money to play with after my take off incident had
resulted in a technical write off of my plane and Nev Eyre (bless him)
and Ivan Shaw had masterminded an inexpensive means of repairing the
broken bodywork. So I bought a dream panel. based around the G3X Touch
with G5 back up, three axis autopilot, full ADSB etc. The radio is a
Garmin GNC255 nav/com. There were five inputs into the audio panel -
radio, SmartAss, transponder, EFIS and Nav, but space for lots more. The
combined output goes to the headsets. I wouldn't worry about the
reliability aspect - I think the components are mostly simple resistors
that should have a near infinite life expectation. On top of that I see
in the blurb that it says it is possible to arrange to have fail safe
connection to your primary (radio) source.
Best of luck, David
On 2021-06-11 09:34, trevord wrote:
>
> Thanks David,
>
> This looks perfect functionally - great to hear you had reliable
> service.
>
> Just a couple of further questions...
>
> What radio do you have that it feeds into ? I have read that the
> XCOM760 does not work properly unless with an aircraft audio panel -
> something to do with impedance .... or do you feed the radio INTO the
> Gretz and then from the Gretz to the headset ?
>
> The "range" of input/outputs suggest that it can do both.
>
> I guess the downside would be if everything goes through the Gretz and
> then to the headset, then if it fails, I would lose the radio also ...
>
> Thanks again, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for... I
> also have no panel space !
>
> Regards
> Trevor
>
> --------
> Trevor
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502324#502324
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: Jun 11, 2021
Great Thanks
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502326#502326
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
From: "trevord" <trevord(at)orcon.net.nz>
Date: Jun 11, 2021
Just a small point,
Whilst the units are still available from Aircraft Spruce, the company's web site
is gone and the emails to info(at)gretzaero.com bounce.
Do you know of another contact for the company ?
Regards
Trevor
--------
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502327#502327
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2021
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
Trevor, Afraid not. David
On 2021-06-11 11:06, trevord wrote:
>
> Just a small point,
>
> Whilst the units are still available from Aircraft Spruce, the
> company's web site is gone and the emails to info(at)gretzaero.com bounce.
>
> Do you know of another contact for the company ?
>
> Regards
> Trevor
>
> --------
> Trevor
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502327#502327
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Churchill-Coleman <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com>
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
Date: Jun 11, 2021
Trevor
I have bought (but not yet installed) a unit with a similar functionality th
at is still available here:
http://vx-aviation.com/AMX.html
Rgds
Richard
Sent from my iPhone
> On 11 Jun 2021, at 11:14, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Trevor, Afraid not. David
>
>
>
>
>> On 2021-06-11 11:06, trevord wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just a small point,
>>
>> Whilst the units are still available from Aircraft Spruce, the company's w
eb site is gone and the emails to info(at)gretzaero.com bounce.
>>
>> Do you know of another contact for the company ?
>>
>> Regards
>> Trevor
>>
>> --------
>> Trevor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502327#502327
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> sp; &nb"http://www.matronics.com/contribution" tar
get="_blank" rel="noopener n====
>>
>>
>>
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From: Roger Sheridan <rogersheridan(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: One radio many sound inputs
Date: Jun 11, 2021
Hi Trevor,
Whilst I cannot endorse this product, it has been used successfully to
mix, balance & amplify audio sources.
Regards,
Roger
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-MX400-Micromix-Noise-Channel/dp/B000KGY
AYQ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=behringer+400&qid=1623409437&sr=
8-6
> On 11 Jun 2021, at 11:06, trevord wrote:
>
>
> Just a small point,
>
> Whilst the units are still available from Aircraft Spruce, the
company's web site is gone and the emails to info(at)gretzaero.com bounce.
>
> Do you know of another contact for the company ?
>
> Regards
> Trevor
>
> --------
> Trevor
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502327#502327
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>
Date: Jun 12, 2021
Alan,
The trim motor is located very close to the comm antenna if your antenna is located
in the rudder flange per the manual. If the comm antenna is not well tuned,
there may be excessive radiation from it that interferes with the trim motor.
I'd suggest you check the standing wave ratio (SWR) of the comm antenna at
different frequencies.
You might try wrapping the trim motor in conductive foil (aluminum foil) to see
if shielding it solves the problem.
Ferrite sleeves often do not solve the problem as they are not universal and the
ones that are readily available are not correct for our VHF frequencies. I
tried a lot of ferrite sleeves when I had my Blue Mountain EFIS trying to solve
problems with very little success.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502344#502344
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
Date: Jun 12, 2021
Thanks Jim, I put an antenna behind the cockpit in the roof, the ferrite sleeve
seems to have fixed the problem, tommorrow I will fly to prove it.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On 12 Jun 2021, at 15:29, h&jeuropa wrote:
>
>
> Alan,
> The trim motor is located very close to the comm antenna if your antenna is located
in the rudder flange per the manual. If the comm antenna is not well tuned,
there may be excessive radiation from it that interferes with the trim motor.
I'd suggest you check the standing wave ratio (SWR) of the comm antenna
at different frequencies.
>
> You might try wrapping the trim motor in conductive foil (aluminum foil) to see
if shielding it solves the problem.
>
> Ferrite sleeves often do not solve the problem as they are not universal and
the ones that are readily available are not correct for our VHF frequencies.
I tried a lot of ferrite sleeves when I had my Blue Mountain EFIS trying to solve
problems with very little success.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502344#502344
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
Date: Jun 12, 2021
Alan,
I recently installed a new Garmin 200 into my panel and I ran my coax across my
FP-5 fuel flow and on certain frequencies 134 and up the FP-5 was a light show
and finally went blank. If your trim indicator is in the panel, rerouting
the com may help, shielding the trim indicator, if nearby the radio may be an
area to look at if the coil doesn't work.
Finally, if you run your com coax on the same side as the 5 wire trim bundle, that
has caused problems before.
As Jim said, ferrites can work but there may still be certain frequencies that
interfere. A Faraday box does work. You don't need Mu metal as there isn't a
lot of magnetic flux in the coax. That said, I have one of the old style needle
type Mac trim indicators and it can be fluctuated by high current ops or the
nearby new Garmin Com radio to my surprise.
Keep plugging away.
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Alan Twigg
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: G-GIWT air tests
Thanks Jim, I put an antenna behind the cockpit in the roof, the ferrite sleeve
seems to have fixed the problem, tommorrow I will fly to prove it.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On 12 Jun 2021, at 15:29, h&jeuropa wrote:
>
>
> Alan,
> The trim motor is located very close to the comm antenna if your antenna is located
in the rudder flange per the manual. If the comm antenna is not well tuned,
there may be excessive radiation from it that interferes with the trim motor.
I'd suggest you check the standing wave ratio (SWR) of the comm antenna
at different frequencies.
>
> You might try wrapping the trim motor in conductive foil (aluminum foil) to see
if shielding it solves the problem.
>
> Ferrite sleeves often do not solve the problem as they are not universal and
the ones that are readily available are not correct for our VHF frequencies.
I tried a lot of ferrite sleeves when I had my Blue Mountain EFIS trying to solve
problems with very little success.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502344%23502344&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf81d5bfdcc07466d0eff08d92db3a3f3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637591071834005806%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HtKN5tPSut76HRtU7shin%2Fd8xkoVsuIPfk0o8Xqx8Cg%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2021
From: Scott Dingman <sldpileit(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests
Please remove me from all lists thank you sldpileit(at)aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 12, 2021 11:01 am
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: G-GIWT air tests
Thanks Jim, I put an antenna=C2- behind the cockpit in the roof, the ferr
ite sleeve seems to have fixed the problem, tommorrow I will fly to prove i
t.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone