JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-ae
February 06, 2008 - April 30, 2008
wife said after she had as well). In the past I've picked it us when one
was loose as it got worse but still worked on the check. This time 150
hrs from new when it was glued on.
Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of corrosion and
it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the other one
yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive spray
would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't show up
last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 06 February 2008 02:53
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
-->
Thanks, Buz-
I changed my first set of caps and rotors at 237 hours, and both rotors
were loose. I didn't glue the replacements (Bosch) on, and in time, both
became loose. I've finally found replacement parts that I'm happy
with...Standard Brand caps, and Daiichi rotors from Car Quest. I've now
got the set-up I'm happy with, and time will tell if the epoxy is the
secret to holding the rotors on, and allow the rotors to "live out their
lives" like they should. I'm not cheap, it's just a pain in the rump to
change them with the limited room that I have.
Personally, I feel that only 200 hours for rotors is way out of
line...they should last at least twice that, if not more. I follow the
25-30 hrs for oil changes and filters, though.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 5, 2008, at 8:17 PM, N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:
> Lynn,
> I have about 420 hours on my 3300 in the last 25 months and no mag
> issues at all (in fact no issues of any kind). I replaced the caps
> and rotors at 250 hours not because of problems, but because the
> engine manual calls for them to be replaced at 200 hours. When
> removed, both caps and rotors were working great and showed no
> abnormal wear at the 250 hour point. I feel they could have gone to
> 500 hours with no problems, but I believe in preventative maintenance.
> I change oil and filter at 25 to 30 hours and plugs at 100 hours. As
> you know, all these replaceable parts on the Jabiru are inexpensive
> and readily available at auto parts stores.
> Blue Skies,
> Buz Rich
>
>
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
> Music.
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Clive-
Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal clips was broken,
too.
Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skirt of the rotor, in
line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when I epoxy the
rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd
rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were both
sloppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.
During the recent repair, I looked at the "good" side and it was
holding just fine. When I first did the hole drilling thing, I had
decided that if that didn't hold, that I would use a Dremel tool and
grind a few shallow pockets into the side of the distributor shaft,
so that the epoxy could really get a bite onto the shaft. So far that
hasn't been necessary.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>
>
> Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of
> corrosion and
> it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the other one
> yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive spray
> would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't show up
> last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
>
> Regards, Clive
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N1BZRich(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
In a message dated 2/6/2008 8:18:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:
I epoxy the
rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
sorts, helping to hold the rotors on.
Lynn,
How do you get them off when they need to be changed nest time? What am
I missing here?
Buz
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Morrisey <donmorrisey(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Mag failure at mag-check |
Lynn:
As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious how, after
gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed the next time arou
nd?
Thanks. Don...www.donsbushcaddy.comDon Morrisey's Skunkworks
> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at ma
g-check> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:15:23 -0500> To: jabiruengine-list@matron
@jps.net>> > Clive-> Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal cl
ips was broken, > too.> > Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skir
t of the rotor, in > line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when
I epoxy the > rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rive
t" of > sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd >
rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were both > sl
oppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.> > During the recent rep
air, I looked at the "good" side and it was > holding just fine. When I fir
st did the hole drilling thing, I had > decided that if that didn't hold, t
hat I would use a Dremel tool and > grind a few shallow pockets into the si
de of the distributor shaft, > so that the epoxy could really get a bite on
to the shaft. So far that > hasn't been necessary.> > > Lynn Matteson> Gras
s Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/470+ hrs> > >
On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:> > > --> JabiruEngine-Li
st message posted by: "James, Clive R" > > > >> > Ca
use as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of > > corrosion and>
> it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the other one> >
yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive spray> > w
ould be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't show up> > last
==> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Lynn,
Are you sure it's a rotor problem (though rotors loose on the
distributor shaft certainly need fixed) and not a coil problem.
I follow a mainentance program with numbers close to those below for a
total of 312 hours. Since 285 hours I have had to replace both coils.
They would work and then not work. Internmittent in operation. Heat,
or at least a hot day in the fall, broke down the left coil even though
I have cool air blasting on it. The right coil left about seven hours
ago after it would: first, fail to show an RPM drop on the mag check,
second, completely failing during a mag check. I should have suspected
it because of rough running and vibration during the previous four or
five takeoffs.
Your coil may check out on the multi-tester but break down under use.
My engine is an old (serial number 051) 3300. It had coils with black
cases and grey molding at the end. New coils have different appearance.
Glad problem is fixed but at $200.80 a pop I felt rather taken advatage
of.. heck, it's just some car coil in all likeiyhood.
BTW, the original rotors were tight when I replaced them and the new
rotors stay tight - checked them when the rough running was encountered.
cheers jeff
I have about 420 hours on my 3300 in the last 25 months and no mag
issues at all (in fact no issues of any kind). I replaced the caps and
rotors at 250 hours not because of problems, but because the engine
manual calls for them to be replaced at 200 hours. When removed, both
caps and rotors were working great and showed no abnormal wear at the
250 hour point. I feel they could have gone to 500 hours with no
problems, but I believe in preventative maintenance. I change oil and
filter at 25 to 30 hours and plugs at 100 hours. As you know, all these
replaceable parts on the Jabiru are inexpensive and readily available at
auto parts stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious how,
after gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed the next
time around?
Thanks. Don...
Don,
I would recommend (take that for what it's worth) that with the 3300 you
need not "glue" them on. The rotors should be checked before you
install by dropping the caps and tugging on them. If loose, then
exercise a stiff push onto the shaft to see if perhaps they were not
seated in the first place.
When I replaced rotors at ~ 275 hours the old ones were tight and the
new ones took considerable effort to push on shaft.
cheers jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Mag failure at mag-check |
I replaced my factory installed distributor caps and rotors last July at
264 hobbs hours. (about 200 tach hours). The rotors had to be
forcefully removed as they were very tight to the shaft - no indications
of wear.
I had one dist cap (L/H I think) that was showing distress and high wear
in the center electrode "carbon button" and the rotor's corresponding
pickup had arcing type wear indications. There were no indications of
any problems during mag checks.
The replaced rotors and caps were procured from Jab USA.
The new rotors (Bosch GB73 made in Australia) were very, very snug fit
to the shafts and I did not use any adhesive. Current hobbs time on
engine about 350 hrs.
To date, the only work done on the engine has been routine scheduled
type maintenance and minor JSBs which are easily accomplished.
Love my Jab. Engine is smooth running and easy to start, although at my
lowest start temp to date (Minus 11 C OAT as per AWOS and my cockpit OAT
indicator), the engine did die after about 5 seconds after start and
had to be restarted.
Tony Graziano
Jab 3300A S/N33A644; Zodiac 601XL
---------------------
has anybody else had any problems with losing a mag, or are
you all changing the rotors and caps at the suggested hourly
intervals, and gluing the rotors on?
The second question is, what has been the condition of the rotors
that you've removed? Are the rotors all wallowed out where they mount
to the distributor shaft?
I checked the rotor in the other mag and found it exactly as I had
installed it many (can't recall how many) hours ago. So I now know
that my rotor installation procedure is good, and both rotors now
have been installed using the same procedure.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Don and Buz-
Since I began to use the epoxy, I haven't had to remove a rotor. The
first one I did...the left...was about 50 hours ago (and checked 1-2
hours ago), the second one...the right...just 1-2 hours ago. When it
comes time to change rotors next time, I'll heat the rotor with a
heat gun and it *should* loosen and come right off. I'm betting that
the epoxy will hold the rotor so well that changing will become a non-
issue. After all, what can go wrong with a rotor under normal (read
automotive) circumstances? It just sits there going around and
around, with no load or stress on it. Granted, the jumping spark
*can* erode the tip, but I've touched auto rotors up with a file, and
put them back into service. The button contact area sees no spark
jump, and should last forever as well, given a slight buffing with
steel wool, for example. To my mind, the 200 hour life span of these
parts is based on the "wobble factor"...if it doesn't wobble, why
should it fail? I'm certainly not advocating NOT changing rotors and
caps, I'd just like to see someone (read: a Jabiru dealer, mechanic,
or engineer) point out the real reason for the suggested time frame.
When I changed rotors the first time around, due to a distributor oil
seal leak, I scoffed at having to glue them on, and I learned my
lesson by having them wobble and fail early, so I'm certainly willing
to learn from someone who has the real story. In the meantime,
weather permitting, I'll continue to log hours on my engine, and do
rotor checks at every other oil change and see what
happens...hopefully NOT "famous last words" : - )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Don Morrisey wrote:
> Lynn:
>
> As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious
> how, after gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed
> the next time around?
>
> Thanks. Don...
>
> www.donsbushcaddy.com
> Don Morrisey's Skunkworks
>
>
> > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:15:23 -0500
> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> >
> > Clive-
> > Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal clips was
> broken,
> > too.
> >
> > Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skirt of the rotor, in
> > line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when I epoxy the
> > rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
> > sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd
> > rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were
> both
> > sloppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.
> >
> > During the recent repair, I looked at the "good" side and it was
> > holding just fine. When I first did the hole drilling thing, I had
> > decided that if that didn't hold, that I would use a Dremel tool and
> > grind a few shallow pockets into the side of the distributor shaft,
> > so that the epoxy could really get a bite onto the shaft. So far
> that
> > hasn't been necessary.
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/470+ hrs
> >
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of
> > > corrosion and
> > > it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the
> other one
> > > yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive
> spray
> > > would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't
> show up
> > > last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
> > >
> > > Regards, Clive
> > >
> >
> >====================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Lynn
Thanks for the input. I am unaware of any time frame to replace the Jab
3300 engine rotor. I looked in the service manual for the engine and it
says to inspect the distributer and rotor each 50 hours but not to replace.
Where did you get info about when to replace the rotor and what was the time
frame. My engine has 120 hrs on it without problems.
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>
> Don and Buz-
>
> Since I began to use the epoxy, I haven't had to remove a rotor. The
> first one I did...the left...was about 50 hours ago (and checked 1-2
> hours ago), the second one...the right...just 1-2 hours ago. When it
> comes time to change rotors next time, I'll heat the rotor with a heat
> gun and it *should* loosen and come right off. I'm betting that the epoxy
> will hold the rotor so well that changing will become a non- issue. After
> all, what can go wrong with a rotor under normal (read automotive)
> circumstances? It just sits there going around and around, with no load
> or stress on it. Granted, the jumping spark *can* erode the tip, but I've
> touched auto rotors up with a file, and put them back into service. The
> button contact area sees no spark jump, and should last forever as well,
> given a slight buffing with steel wool, for example. To my mind, the 200
> hour life span of these parts is based on the "wobble factor"...if it
> doesn't wobble, why should it fail? I'm certainly not advocating NOT
> changing rotors and caps, I'd just like to see someone (read: a Jabiru
> dealer, mechanic, or engineer) point out the real reason for the
> suggested time frame. When I changed rotors the first time around, due to
> a distributor oil seal leak, I scoffed at having to glue them on, and I
> learned my lesson by having them wobble and fail early, so I'm certainly
> willing to learn from someone who has the real story. In the meantime,
> weather permitting, I'll continue to log hours on my engine, and do rotor
> checks at every other oil change and see what happens...hopefully NOT
> "famous last words" : - )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/470+ hrs
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Don Morrisey wrote:
>
>> Lynn:
>>
>> As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious how,
>> after gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed the next
>> time around?
>>
>> Thanks. Don...
>>
>> www.donsbushcaddy.com
>> Don Morrisey's Skunkworks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
>> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:15:23 -0500
>> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> >
>>
>> >
>> > Clive-
>> > Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal clips was
>> broken,
>> > too.
>> >
>> > Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skirt of the rotor, in
>> > line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when I epoxy the
>> > rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
>> > sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd
>> > rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were
>> both
>> > sloppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.
>> >
>> > During the recent repair, I looked at the "good" side and it was
>> > holding just fine. When I first did the hole drilling thing, I had
>> > decided that if that didn't hold, that I would use a Dremel tool and
>> > grind a few shallow pockets into the side of the distributor shaft,
>> > so that the epoxy could really get a bite onto the shaft. So far
>> that
>> > hasn't been necessary.
>> >
>> >
>> > Lynn Matteson
>> > Grass Lake, Michigan
>> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>> > flying w/470+ hrs
>> >
>> >
>> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of
>> > > corrosion and
>> > > it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the
>> other one
>> > > yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive
>> spray
>> > > would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't
>> show up
>> > > last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
>> > >
>> > > Regards, Clive
>> > >
>> >
>> >====================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn
>> forums.matronics.com_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Mag failure at mag-check |
The instructions in the Jabiru manual now specify an inspection on a regular
basis and if the caps & rotor look good they need not be replaced. In the
more distant past there was a statement (maybe in one of the early Jaba Chat
newsletters) about a service life of 200 hours or two years.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ivan
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
Lynn
Thanks for the input. I am unaware of any time frame to replace the Jab
3300 engine rotor. I looked in the service manual for the engine and it
says to inspect the distributer and rotor each 50 hours but not to replace.
Where did you get info about when to replace the rotor and what was the time
frame. My engine has 120 hrs on it without problems.
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>
> Don and Buz-
>
> Since I began to use the epoxy, I haven't had to remove a rotor. The
> first one I did...the left...was about 50 hours ago (and checked 1-2
> hours ago), the second one...the right...just 1-2 hours ago. When it
> comes time to change rotors next time, I'll heat the rotor with a heat
> gun and it *should* loosen and come right off. I'm betting that the epoxy
> will hold the rotor so well that changing will become a non- issue. After
> all, what can go wrong with a rotor under normal (read automotive)
> circumstances? It just sits there going around and around, with no load
> or stress on it. Granted, the jumping spark *can* erode the tip, but I've
> touched auto rotors up with a file, and put them back into service. The
> button contact area sees no spark jump, and should last forever as well,
> given a slight buffing with steel wool, for example. To my mind, the 200
> hour life span of these parts is based on the "wobble factor"...if it
> doesn't wobble, why should it fail? I'm certainly not advocating NOT
> changing rotors and caps, I'd just like to see someone (read: a Jabiru
> dealer, mechanic, or engineer) point out the real reason for the
> suggested time frame. When I changed rotors the first time around, due to
> a distributor oil seal leak, I scoffed at having to glue them on, and I
> learned my lesson by having them wobble and fail early, so I'm certainly
> willing to learn from someone who has the real story. In the meantime,
> weather permitting, I'll continue to log hours on my engine, and do rotor
> checks at every other oil change and see what happens...hopefully NOT
> "famous last words" : - )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/470+ hrs
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Don Morrisey wrote:
>
>> Lynn:
>>
>> As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious how,
>> after gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed the next
>> time around?
>>
>> Thanks. Don...
>>
>> www.donsbushcaddy.com
>> Don Morrisey's Skunkworks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
>> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:15:23 -0500
>> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> >
>>
>> >
>> > Clive-
>> > Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal clips was
>> broken,
>> > too.
>> >
>> > Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skirt of the rotor, in
>> > line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when I epoxy the
>> > rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
>> > sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd
>> > rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were
>> both
>> > sloppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.
>> >
>> > During the recent repair, I looked at the "good" side and it was
>> > holding just fine. When I first did the hole drilling thing, I had
>> > decided that if that didn't hold, that I would use a Dremel tool and
>> > grind a few shallow pockets into the side of the distributor shaft,
>> > so that the epoxy could really get a bite onto the shaft. So far
>> that
>> > hasn't been necessary.
>> >
>> >
>> > Lynn Matteson
>> > Grass Lake, Michigan
>> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>> > flying w/470+ hrs
>> >
>> >
>> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of
>> > > corrosion and
>> > > it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the
>> other one
>> > > yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive
>> spray
>> > > would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't
>> show up
>> > > last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
>> > >
>> > > Regards, Clive
>> > >
>> >
>> >====================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn
>> forums.matronics.com_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
I'm pretty sure that I read it right here...or on the Yahoo Jabiru
list, I'm not sure. I went back and looked through my mail about the
time that I had the leaking dist shaft seals, thinking maybe that
could have triggered a response from "a person in the know", but
couldn't find the reference.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Ivan wrote:
>
> Lynn
> Thanks for the input. I am unaware of any time frame to replace
> the Jab 3300 engine rotor. I looked in the service manual for the
> engine and it says to inspect the distributer and rotor each 50
> hours but not to replace. Where did you get info about when to
> replace the rotor and what was the time frame. My engine has 120
> hrs on it without problems.
>
> Ivan
> Phoenix, AZ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Lynn
The neat thing that I love about the Jabiru so far is the good documentation
and Pete's input. I can go to the service manual and know exactly what I
have to check, how to do it and how often. I felt a little unsupported in
those areas when I was running my Rotax.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>
> I'm pretty sure that I read it right here...or on the Yahoo Jabiru list,
> I'm not sure. I went back and looked through my mail about the time that
> I had the leaking dist shaft seals, thinking maybe that could have
> triggered a response from "a person in the know", but couldn't find the
> reference.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/470+ hrs
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Ivan wrote:
>
>>
>> Lynn
>> Thanks for the input. I am unaware of any time frame to replace the Jab
>> 3300 engine rotor. I looked in the service manual for the engine and it
>> says to inspect the distributer and rotor each 50 hours but not to
>> replace. Where did you get info about when to replace the rotor and what
>> was the time frame. My engine has 120 hrs on it without problems.
>>
>> Ivan
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Pickford" <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Mag failure at mag-check |
I have read 200 hrs somewhere on the Jabiru CD - Replaced ours at 300
because cap was loose, Have done another 600 since with no trouble -
used Araldite on rotors
Keith
Alpi Pioneer 200 w/Jabiru 2200 900+ hrs
Jabiru J160 2200 Hydraulic lifters 300+ hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
I'm pretty sure that I read it right here...or on the Yahoo Jabiru
list, I'm not sure. I went back and looked through my mail about the
time that I had the leaking dist shaft seals, thinking maybe that
could have triggered a response from "a person in the know", but
couldn't find the reference.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Finding a cap loose at 237 hours was what caused me to remove it and
look inside. I found a bit of oil inside the left cap, which had come
through the shaft seal. I checked the right mag and found it to be
saturated with oil, to the point of almost covering the lowest
terminal inside the cap. The left shaft was scored by the seal, but
the right shaft was unscored. The best-looking shaft had dumped the
most oil. I corrected the condition by installing Speedi-Sleeves on
both shafts, and installing new seals. No leakage has been found since.
As a result of finding loose rotors recently, I've started to use
Hysol (a 2-part structural adhesive...epoxy) to secure the rotors.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:01 PM, Keith Pickford wrote:
>
>
> I have read 200 hrs somewhere on the Jabiru CD - Replaced ours at 300
> because cap was loose, Have done another 600 since with no trouble -
> used Araldite on rotors
>
> Keith
>
> Alpi Pioneer 200 w/Jabiru 2200 900+ hrs
> Jabiru J160 2200 Hydraulic lifters 300+ hrs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:19 PM
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure that I read it right here...or on the Yahoo Jabiru
> list, I'm not sure. I went back and looked through my mail about the
> time that I had the leaking dist shaft seals, thinking maybe that
> could have triggered a response from "a person in the know", but
> couldn't find the reference.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/470+ hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
I agree, Ivan....Pete's been good about answering problems. I haven't
had to lean on him too often for advice, as my engine got to the 200
hour mark pretty quick with no problems. I did, however, try to talk
him out of a Jabiru hat when I was at Oshkosh, but no deal...I had to
buy a hat just like everyone else...bummer. : ) (I did buy the hat,
though)
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:50 PM, Ivan wrote:
>
> Lynn
> The neat thing that I love about the Jabiru so far is the good
> documentation and Pete's input. I can go to the service manual and
> know exactly what I have to check, how to do it and how often. I
> felt a little unsupported in those areas when I was running my Rotax.
>
> Ivan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary aman <gaman(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
Anyone happen to have the Bosch numbers for replacement caps and rotors for 2200s?
Thanx G. Aman
----- Original Message ----
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 9:13:13 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
Don and Buz-
Since I began to use the epoxy, I haven't had to remove a rotor. The
first one I did...the left...was about 50 hours ago (and checked 1-2
hours ago), the second one...the right...just 1-2 hours ago. When it
comes time to change rotors next time, I'll heat the rotor with a
heat gun and it *should* loosen and come right off. I'm betting that
the epoxy will hold the rotor so well that changing will become a non-
issue. After all, what can go wrong with a rotor under normal (read
automotive) circumstances? It just sits there going around and
around, with no load or stress on it. Granted, the jumping spark
*can* erode the tip, but I've touched auto rotors up with a file, and
put them back into service. The button contact area sees no spark
jump, and should last forever as well, given a slight buffing with
steel wool, for example. To my mind, the 200 hour life span of these
parts is based on the "wobble factor"...if it doesn't wobble, why
should it fail? I'm certainly not advocating NOT changing rotors and
caps, I'd just like to see someone (read: a Jabiru dealer, mechanic,
or engineer) point out the real reason for the suggested time frame.
When I changed rotors the first time around, due to a distributor oil
seal leak, I scoffed at having to glue them on, and I learned my
lesson by having them wobble and fail early, so I'm certainly willing
to learn from someone who has the real story. In the meantime,
weather permitting, I'll continue to log hours on my engine, and do
rotor checks at every other oil change and see what
happens...hopefully NOT "famous last words" : - )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Don Morrisey wrote:
> Lynn:
>
> As someone who is very close to installing my 3300, I am curious
> how, after gluing or epoxying the rotors on, they then get removed
> the next time around?
>
> Thanks. Don...
>
> www.donsbushcaddy.com
> Don Morrisey's Skunkworks
>
>
> > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Mag failure at mag-check
> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:15:23 -0500
> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> >
> > Clive-
> > Now that you mentioned it, one of my original metal clips was
> broken,
> > too.
> >
> > Oh, by the way, I drilled 4 holes around the skirt of the rotor, in
> > line with the interior grooves in the rotor, and when I epoxy the
> > rotors on, the epoxy oozes out of the holes and forms a "rivet" of
> > sorts, helping to hold the rotors on. It may be overkill, but I'd
> > rather be safe than sorry. Incidentally, my original rotors were
> both
> > sloppy loose when I first inspected them at 237 hrs.
> >
> > During the recent repair, I looked at the "good" side and it was
> > holding just fine. When I first did the hole drilling thing, I had
> > decided that if that didn't hold, that I would use a Dremel tool
and
> > grind a few shallow pockets into the side of the distributor shaft,
> > so that the epoxy could really get a bite onto the shaft. So far
> that
> > hasn't been necessary.
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/470+ hrs
> >
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008, at 4:29 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cause as always the metal spring clip had failed. A bit of
> > > corrosion and
> > > it was in 2 pieces. Genuine Bosch parts. Haven't opened the
> other one
> > > yet but will post it's condition when I do. Some anti corrosive
> spray
> > > would be good but then that won't help with the glue. Didn't
> show up
> > > last time I had the caps off ~50 hrs back.
> > >
> > > Regards, Clive
> > >
> >
> >====================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mag failure at mag-check |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Cap GH506 Rotor GH600
these show on the carton as for Honda Civic '73 and Datsun (Nissan) 1100 or 1200
They were identical to the ones on my 2200. Note you will need to cut off a portion
of the caps to use them on the engine
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162935#162935
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
I am going to add EGT's to my 2200 (SN 988).
I can get probes that are either 1/2 inch long or 1 inch long.
Any comments on which length should I get?
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
Chuck,
Get the 1" ones; they'll span the inside diameter of the exhaust pipes
nicely.
Andy Silvester
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc
813 377 2716
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Deiterich
Sent: 09 February 2008 12:59
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
I am going to add EGT's to my 2200 (SN 988).
I can get probes that are either 1/2 inch long or 1 inch long.
Any comments on which length should I get?
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Andy-
Wouldn't you want the tip of the probe to be in the center of the
pipe? It's been my experience (a few years spent installing
thermocouples in test cars for Chrysler Corp) that it's where the two
dissimilar wires come together...usually at the tip of the
thermocouple...that the reading is made. I'll certainly defer to your
knowledge of the thermocouples in question....I know nothing about
those particular ones.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 9, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Andy Silvester wrote:
> Chuck,
>
>
> Get the 1 ones; theyll span the inside diameter of the exhaust
> pipes nicely.
>
>
> Andy Silvester
>
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc
>
> 813 377 2716
>
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich
> Sent: 09 February 2008 12:59
> To: Jab-list
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
>
>
> I am going to add EGT's to my 2200 (SN 988).
> I can get probes that are either 1/2 inch long or 1 inch long.
> Any comments on which length should I get?
>
> Chuck D.
>
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
Lynn,
I think you probably have the 'edge' over me on thermocouple technology, but
with these EGT senders, you're attempting to measure a pipe full of very
fast moving hot gas and I doubt, with the turbulence of post-combustion,
anyone can really tell where (in the pipe diameter) the best place for true
measurement is. Unless of course you could spend considerable time in
laboratory conditions measuring.....We've always used the 1" probes,
supplied mainly from Grand Rapids Technologies and as a measure of EGT, they
do a fair job. After all, EGT is very much a 'comparative' measurement and
it's always the case to see a wider range of temps across all cylinders,
(even when in the case of a direct-injected engine where mixture is more
accurately known), than you'd see for example in a well-balanced set of CHT
figures. What you'll be looking for is a temperature span of less than (say)
80F-100F across cylinders (less is good but often not worth chasing), but
the absolute values will tell you more about how the engine's doing:
1. Less than 1100F will betray an over-rich condition
2. Above 1400F is too lean, particularly at full throttle.
Remember, the Bing's mixture compensating needle will promote a relatively
rich mixture at high throttle openings (so the high workload won't lead to
detonation) and a relatively lean condition in the cruise. Prop selection,
airframe type, fuel quality all have effects, but essentially I get my
confidence from a good-running engine by seeing (say) cruise EGTs around
1250F-1300F, and wide-open throttle EGTs about 100F less. Opening the
throttle to full while monitoring the EGTs will see a marked reduction.
Comprehensive info on this subject can be found in Jabiru's Service Bulletin
JSB 018-1 at:
http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/JSB018-1Engine%2
0tuning.pdf
There's plenty of accepted wisdom about the benefits of multiple EGT
measurement; noting a rising EGT on a cylinder could help to diagnose an
air-leak in the induction and signal the need for maintenance before an
expensive head overhaul becomes necessary. Thanks, Lynn for providing the
opportunity to neatly evade your topic and (no doubt) raise discussion about
another..!
Cheers, Andy
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 09 February 2008 18:08
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
Andy-
Wouldn't you want the tip of the probe to be in the center of the
pipe? It's been my experience (a few years spent installing
thermocouples in test cars for Chrysler Corp) that it's where the two
dissimilar wires come together...usually at the tip of the
thermocouple...that the reading is made. I'll certainly defer to your
knowledge of the thermocouples in question....I know nothing about
those particular ones.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 9, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Andy Silvester wrote:
> Chuck,
>
>
> Get the 1" ones; they'll span the inside diameter of the exhaust
> pipes nicely.
>
>
> Andy Silvester
>
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc
>
> 813 377 2716
>
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich
> Sent: 09 February 2008 12:59
> To: Jab-list
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
>
>
> I am going to add EGT's to my 2200 (SN 988).
> I can get probes that are either 1/2 inch long or 1 inch long.
> Any comments on which length should I get?
>
> Chuck D.
>
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Thanks for the info, Andy. I've got all four cyls monitored with
Grand Rapids Technologies probes, and their EIS. I'm not sure what
length they are, but I recall having to stack about 1/8" of washers
onto the probe so as to prevent it from entering the pipe too far. I
can't really recall where this put the probe in relationship to the
center of the pipe...maybe it just kept it from touching the other
side of the pipe, which wouldn't be good for readings.
My particular readings are in the 1300's F at full throttle, all
within 40F, and in the 1400's F at cruise. I've got engine #2062
which had the economy tune at the time of delivery, and I haven't
changed it. Sounds like maybe I'd better go a little richer, eh?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you probably have the 'edge' over me on thermocouple
> technology, but
> with these EGT senders, you're attempting to measure a pipe full of
> very
> fast moving hot gas and I doubt, with the turbulence of post-
> combustion,
> anyone can really tell where (in the pipe diameter) the best place
> for true
> measurement is. Unless of course you could spend considerable time in
> laboratory conditions measuring.....We've always used the 1" probes,
> supplied mainly from Grand Rapids Technologies and as a measure of
> EGT, they
> do a fair job. After all, EGT is very much a 'comparative'
> measurement and
> it's always the case to see a wider range of temps across all
> cylinders,
> (even when in the case of a direct-injected engine where mixture is
> more
> accurately known), than you'd see for example in a well-balanced
> set of CHT
> figures. What you'll be looking for is a temperature span of less
> than (say)
> 80F-100F across cylinders (less is good but often not worth
> chasing), but
> the absolute values will tell you more about how the engine's doing:
>
> 1. Less than 1100F will betray an over-rich condition
> 2. Above 1400F is too lean, particularly at full throttle.
>
> Remember, the Bing's mixture compensating needle will promote a
> relatively
> rich mixture at high throttle openings (so the high workload won't
> lead to
> detonation) and a relatively lean condition in the cruise. Prop
> selection,
> airframe type, fuel quality all have effects, but essentially I get my
> confidence from a good-running engine by seeing (say) cruise EGTs
> around
> 1250F-1300F, and wide-open throttle EGTs about 100F less. Opening the
> throttle to full while monitoring the EGTs will see a marked
> reduction.
> Comprehensive info on this subject can be found in Jabiru's Service
> Bulletin
> JSB 018-1 at:
> http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/
> JSB018-1Engine%2
> 0tuning.pdf
>
> There's plenty of accepted wisdom about the benefits of multiple EGT
> measurement; noting a rising EGT on a cylinder could help to
> diagnose an
> air-leak in the induction and signal the need for maintenance
> before an
> expensive head overhaul becomes necessary. Thanks, Lynn for
> providing the
> opportunity to neatly evade your topic and (no doubt) raise
> discussion about
> another..!
>
> Cheers, Andy
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
Lynn,
Actually, those temps and 'span' are very good; I wouldn't change a thing,
particularly on the 2200. I have run our own engines hotter (in the 1400s at
cruise) and with no ill-effects in a few hundred hours, but it's a little
higher than Jabiru's own recommendations. As long as you're seeing that drop
on increase in throttle, you're good with what you have, and no doubt a
pretty good g.p.h. figure.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 10 February 2008 14:31
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
Thanks for the info, Andy. I've got all four cyls monitored with
Grand Rapids Technologies probes, and their EIS. I'm not sure what
length they are, but I recall having to stack about 1/8" of washers
onto the probe so as to prevent it from entering the pipe too far. I
can't really recall where this put the probe in relationship to the
center of the pipe...maybe it just kept it from touching the other
side of the pipe, which wouldn't be good for readings.
My particular readings are in the 1300's F at full throttle, all
within 40F, and in the 1400's F at cruise. I've got engine #2062
which had the economy tune at the time of delivery, and I haven't
changed it. Sounds like maybe I'd better go a little richer, eh?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you probably have the 'edge' over me on thermocouple
> technology, but
> with these EGT senders, you're attempting to measure a pipe full of
> very
> fast moving hot gas and I doubt, with the turbulence of post-
> combustion,
> anyone can really tell where (in the pipe diameter) the best place
> for true
> measurement is. Unless of course you could spend considerable time in
> laboratory conditions measuring.....We've always used the 1" probes,
> supplied mainly from Grand Rapids Technologies and as a measure of
> EGT, they
> do a fair job. After all, EGT is very much a 'comparative'
> measurement and
> it's always the case to see a wider range of temps across all
> cylinders,
> (even when in the case of a direct-injected engine where mixture is
> more
> accurately known), than you'd see for example in a well-balanced
> set of CHT
> figures. What you'll be looking for is a temperature span of less
> than (say)
> 80F-100F across cylinders (less is good but often not worth
> chasing), but
> the absolute values will tell you more about how the engine's doing:
>
> 1. Less than 1100F will betray an over-rich condition
> 2. Above 1400F is too lean, particularly at full throttle.
>
> Remember, the Bing's mixture compensating needle will promote a
> relatively
> rich mixture at high throttle openings (so the high workload won't
> lead to
> detonation) and a relatively lean condition in the cruise. Prop
> selection,
> airframe type, fuel quality all have effects, but essentially I get my
> confidence from a good-running engine by seeing (say) cruise EGTs
> around
> 1250F-1300F, and wide-open throttle EGTs about 100F less. Opening the
> throttle to full while monitoring the EGTs will see a marked
> reduction.
> Comprehensive info on this subject can be found in Jabiru's Service
> Bulletin
> JSB 018-1 at:
> http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/
> JSB018-1Engine%2
> 0tuning.pdf
>
> There's plenty of accepted wisdom about the benefits of multiple EGT
> measurement; noting a rising EGT on a cylinder could help to
> diagnose an
> air-leak in the induction and signal the need for maintenance
> before an
> expensive head overhaul becomes necessary. Thanks, Lynn for
> providing the
> opportunity to neatly evade your topic and (no doubt) raise
> discussion about
> another..!
>
> Cheers, Andy
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Pickford" <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Wasn't there a recommendation to drill the main jet out slightly on the
tuning kit ?
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Silvester
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
Lynn,
Actually, those temps and 'span' are very good; I wouldn't change a
thing,
particularly on the 2200. I have run our own engines hotter (in the
1400s at
cruise) and with no ill-effects in a few hundred hours, but it's a
little
higher than Jabiru's own recommendations. As long as you're seeing that
drop
on increase in throttle, you're good with what you have, and no doubt a
pretty good g.p.h. figure.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 10 February 2008 14:31
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probes
Thanks for the info, Andy. I've got all four cyls monitored with
Grand Rapids Technologies probes, and their EIS. I'm not sure what
length they are, but I recall having to stack about 1/8" of washers
onto the probe so as to prevent it from entering the pipe too far. I
can't really recall where this put the probe in relationship to the
center of the pipe...maybe it just kept it from touching the other
side of the pipe, which wouldn't be good for readings.
My particular readings are in the 1300's F at full throttle, all
within 40F, and in the 1400's F at cruise. I've got engine #2062
which had the economy tune at the time of delivery, and I haven't
changed it. Sounds like maybe I'd better go a little richer, eh?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 10, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you probably have the 'edge' over me on thermocouple
> technology, but
> with these EGT senders, you're attempting to measure a pipe full of
> very
> fast moving hot gas and I doubt, with the turbulence of post-
> combustion,
> anyone can really tell where (in the pipe diameter) the best place
> for true
> measurement is. Unless of course you could spend considerable time in
> laboratory conditions measuring.....We've always used the 1" probes,
> supplied mainly from Grand Rapids Technologies and as a measure of
> EGT, they
> do a fair job. After all, EGT is very much a 'comparative'
> measurement and
> it's always the case to see a wider range of temps across all
> cylinders,
> (even when in the case of a direct-injected engine where mixture is
> more
> accurately known), than you'd see for example in a well-balanced
> set of CHT
> figures. What you'll be looking for is a temperature span of less
> than (say)
> 80F-100F across cylinders (less is good but often not worth
> chasing), but
> the absolute values will tell you more about how the engine's doing:
>
> 1. Less than 1100F will betray an over-rich condition
> 2. Above 1400F is too lean, particularly at full throttle.
>
> Remember, the Bing's mixture compensating needle will promote a
> relatively
> rich mixture at high throttle openings (so the high workload won't
> lead to
> detonation) and a relatively lean condition in the cruise. Prop
> selection,
> airframe type, fuel quality all have effects, but essentially I get my
> confidence from a good-running engine by seeing (say) cruise EGTs
> around
> 1250F-1300F, and wide-open throttle EGTs about 100F less. Opening the
> throttle to full while monitoring the EGTs will see a marked
> reduction.
> Comprehensive info on this subject can be found in Jabiru's Service
> Bulletin
> JSB 018-1 at:
> http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/
> JSB018-1Engine%2
> 0tuning.pdf
>
> There's plenty of accepted wisdom about the benefits of multiple EGT
> measurement; noting a rising EGT on a cylinder could help to
> diagnose an
> air-leak in the induction and signal the need for maintenance
> before an
> expensive head overhaul becomes necessary. Thanks, Lynn for
> providing the
> opportunity to neatly evade your topic and (no doubt) raise
> discussion about
> another..!
>
> Cheers, Andy
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
Andy and Lynn,
Thanks for the response.
I searched around the internet and also looked at Tony Bingelis' books.
His book just has a drawing that shows the tip of the probe in the center.
One place said the tip should be in the center of the gas stream
I suspect in the center is the hottest.
So that is what I will try to do.
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RONAL SMITH" <ronal22(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Oil Change |
I just changed the oil in my Jab 2200A engine, and made an interesting
observation. My engine is in a Kitfox IV with tail wheel. After
draining the oil in the 3-point position (over night), I raised the tail
so that the A/C was level (flight position).
I did this to recalibrate the dipstick. After going to the level
position, I got 3-4 oz. more oil out of the engine. I don't know if
anybody else has observed this, but I thought it would be worth noting
to the group. In the future I will always drain the oil in the level
position.
Ron Smith, Kitfox 4, 45 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil Change |
Why did you want to recalibrate in the level position? I recalibrated
mine in the tail down (taildragger, too) position, because that's how
it's going to be when I check it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 11, 2008, at 4:20 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
> I just changed the oil in my Jab 2200A engine, and made an
> interesting observation. My engine is in a Kitfox IV with tail
> wheel. After draining the oil in the 3-point position (over
> night), I raised the tail so that the A/C was level (flight position).
> I did this to recalibrate the dipstick. After going to the level
> position, I got 3-4 oz. more oil out of the engine. I don't know
> if anybody else has observed this, but I thought it would be worth
> noting to the group. In the future I will always drain the oil in
> the level position.
>
> Ron Smith, Kitfox 4, 45 hrs.
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently building and it will
have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've been looking at the Grand Rapids
EIS as it seems to give me all of the information that I need at a reasonable
price, but I've tried emailing them 3 times for more information and I haven't
had a single response from them. If they're like this before I buy, then
there's not much hope once I've passed over the cash!
What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other instruments?
Is there something else that you would recommend I should looking? Budget dictates
that stuff like the Dynon are a no-no!
Thanks in advance.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> |
I ve purchase two EIS units from Jabiru West in Fresno, California.
Excellent service and good prices.
I had one on my 2200A and now on my 3300A.
Call Jim and see what he will do...
Steve Weston
----- Original Message -----
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:14 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Which EIS?
>
>
> I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently building and
> it will have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've been looking at the
> Grand Rapids EIS as it seems to give me all of the information that I need
> at a reasonable price, but I've tried emailing them 3 times for more
> information and I haven't had a single response from them. If they're
> like this before I buy, then there's not much hope once I've passed over
> the cash!
>
> What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other
> instruments? Is there something else that you would recommend I should
> looking? Budget dictates that stuff like the Dynon are a no-no!
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ian Wilson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
The March issue of Kitplanes magazine had a survey of engine monitors. But
you have to subscribe or pay $7.50 for the single article:
http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/25_3/builder_spotlight/issues_builderspotlig
ht_8133-1.phtml
One new low-cost line comes from I-K Technologies. The combine LED bar
graphs with monochrome LCD displays:
http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/
Also try MGL:
Factory site (South Africa): http://www.mglavionics.co.za/
US Site: http://www.mglavionics.com/
The E2 might suit you:
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/e2.html
The E1 fits in a 3.5 inch standard round cut-out:
http://www.mglavionics.com/e1.pdf
On the other hand MGL's monochrome EFIS is cheap enough that you could go
all glass:
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/ultra_horizon_xl.html
If you have questions ask them on the user-to-user Yahoo group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stratomaster_users_group/
Rainier (the owner and chief designer) regularly responds to questions
directly on the group.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ianwilson2
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Which EIS?
I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently building and it
will have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've been looking at the Grand
Rapids EIS as it seems to give me all of the information that I need at a
reasonable price, but I've tried emailing them 3 times for more information
and I haven't had a single response from them. If they're like this before
I buy, then there's not much hope once I've passed over the cash!
What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other
instruments? Is there something else that you would recommend I should
looking? Budget dictates that stuff like the Dynon are a no-no!
Thanks in advance.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
I'm surprised that you have not had a response. Normally GRT customer
support is top notch. I would highly recommend the GRT EIS. We've sold
several hundred in the last few years with no problems.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ianwilson2
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:15 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Which EIS?
I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently building and it
will have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've been looking at the Grand
Rapids EIS as it seems to give me all of the information that I need at a
reasonable price, but I've tried emailing them 3 times for more information
and I haven't had a single response from them. If they're like this before
I buy, then there's not much hope once I've passed over the cash!
What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other
instruments? Is there something else that you would recommend I should
looking? Budget dictates that stuff like the Dynon are a no-no!
Thanks in advance.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
I've got the Grand Rapids EIS with probes on all 4 cylinders for EGT
and CHT's. I've phoned them whenever a learning problem occurred, and
except for one occasion, they were there to answer questions. Try a
phone call.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 12, 2008, at 12:14 PM, ianwilson2 wrote:
>
>
> I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently
> building and it will have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've
> been looking at the Grand Rapids EIS as it seems to give me all of
> the information that I need at a reasonable price, but I've tried
> emailing them 3 times for more information and I haven't had a
> single response from them. If they're like this before I buy, then
> there's not much hope once I've passed over the cash!
>
> What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other
> instruments? Is there something else that you would recommend I
> should looking? Budget dictates that stuff like the Dynon are a no-
> no!
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ian Wilson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com> |
Ian,
Take a look at Rocky Mountain Instrument. They make a great EFIS as well as
an encoder.
Dale
XS Tri-gear with Jab 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Which EIS?
>
>
> I'm want to install an EIS in the X-Air H that I'm currently building and
> it will have a Jab 2200A (#2859) on the front. I've been looking at the
> Grand Rapids EIS as it seems to give me all of the information that I need
> at a reasonable price, but I've tried emailing them 3 times for more
> information and I haven't had a single response from them. If they're
> like this before I buy, then there's not much hope once I've passed over
> the cash!
>
> What are your experiences with Grand Rapids, their EIS and other
> instruments? Is there something else that you would recommend I should
> looking? Budget dictates that stuff like the Dynon are a no-no!
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ian Wilson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163680#163680
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RONAL SMITH" <ronal22(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Oil Change |
Lynn, I wanted to recalibrate my dipstick, because when I first did it,
the dipstick tube was not in the proper position. When I first added
oil to my engine, I calibrated the dipstick for the 3-point position.
Then when I ran the engine, I had an oil leak at the base of the
dipstick tube. I found out the dipstick tube was not seated all the way
down so that the O-ring was engaging. When I pushed the tube down and
tightened the setscrew on the dipstick tube holder, it would raise the
tube about 1/4 inch. I fixed that problem, but never recalibrated my
dipstick.
My max oil level in the 3-point position is at the bottom mark of the
original dipstick that I assume was calibrated for the engine in the
level position.. Where is your max oil level mark? I could use a
longer dipstick, are there any to be had that will fit.
Ron Smith, KF-4 with Jabiru 2200A engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil Change |
I "borrowed" someone else's idea and using a small pin punch, drove
the dipstick tube down into the knob about a quarter-inch. This makes
the stick penetrate further into the oil in the sump. Or you could
just silver solder a short extension onto the original dipstick.
With this new position of the original marks, I use the center mark
as my oil level.
Basically what you should do is to add the amount of oil that the
instructions recommend, like say after an oil change, then start the
engine, let the oil circulate and fill the filter, lines etc., then
let it sit for several hours. Then make a mark that shows the level
at that point. This is the level of oil that they recommend. I've
found that if I add 2 qts and 14 oz of oil after an oil and filter
change, then start up, shut down and let sit, that is my oil level.
This reflects about what Jabiru says the oil capacity should be.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 12, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
> Lynn, I wanted to recalibrate my dipstick, because when I first
> did it, the dipstick tube was not in the proper position. When I
> first added oil to my engine, I calibrated the dipstick for the 3-
> point position. Then when I ran the engine, I had an oil leak at
> the base of the dipstick tube. I found out the dipstick tube was
> not seated all the way down so that the O-ring was engaging. When
> I pushed the tube down and tightened the setscrew on the dipstick
> tube holder, it would raise the tube about 1/4 inch. I fixed that
> problem, but never recalibrated my dipstick.
>
> My max oil level in the 3-point position is at the bottom mark of
> the original dipstick that I assume was calibrated for the engine
> in the level position.. Where is your max oil level mark? I could
> use a longer dipstick, are there any to be had that will fit.
>
> Ron Smith, KF-4 with Jabiru 2200A engine.
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotor arm pictures |
| From: | "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> |
On Yahoo Jabiru engine group and attached are some pictures of the arms
for the 2200 and 3300 as most folk won't have seen both types, The 3300
looks to have a lot more substantial fitting and from what's been posted
here and on Yahoo doesn't have the same issues at the 2200 (clip
failing, falling off, gluing recomendation).
For the 2200 the two plastic 'rivets' can be seen. I tried some cheap
ones once but with only one 'rivet' and the gear whine or whatever
causes the situation with the arms vibrating + falling off soon had the
metal plate loose.
Regards, Clive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Thank you all for your input, especially Craig for all of the alternative links
and to Pete who passed my email to GRT - and guess what, I had a response from
Sandy! It's good to know that some of you have had a good response to their
queries/problems. It gives me more confidence.
I now need to sit down at my computer and calculator and work out what's going
to work best for me - I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks again.
Ian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163812#163812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotor arm pictures |
I'm wondering why Jabiru makes a different rotor for the two engines.
The 3300 one looks a LOT more substantial in that the length of the
skirt is longer and thus grips the shaft a lot better, I'll bet.
I've been thinking of making my own rotors for awhile now, or at
least modify the skirts of existing ones. If my present method of
drilling holes in the skirts and using epoxy doesn't hold for at
least 200 hrs, I will.
When I was racing cars, I used a Vertex magneto, and their rotors had
3 point-tipped screws in the skirt. These pointed screws went into a
v-shaped groove in the shaft, and were safety wired in place. No lost
rotors at 6500 crank speed, but then it would have taken several 8-
second dragstrip runs to accumulate 200 hrs. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/470+ hrs
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:36 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> On Yahoo Jabiru engine group and attached are some pictures of the
> arms
> for the 2200 and 3300 as most folk won't have seen both types, The
> 3300
> looks to have a lot more substantial fitting and from what's been
> posted
> here and on Yahoo doesn't have the same issues at the 2200 (clip
> failing, falling off, gluing recomendation).
>
> For the 2200 the two plastic 'rivets' can be seen. I tried some cheap
> ones once but with only one 'rivet' and the gear whine or whatever
> causes the situation with the arms vibrating + falling off soon had
> the
> metal plate loose.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electrical setup for my 3300 |
| From: | "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> |
I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building.
This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator). The panel
wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired
direct.
My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys
just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch.
Based on this, I have a couple of questions:
Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid?
Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna
guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks ahead of time for the help...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical setup for my 3300 |
When I last talked to Pete about this, his answer was that you can use or
not use a battery solenoid as you please. With help from others on the
list, I used a battery solenoid mainly to keep all the "live" wires in front
of the firewall when the master is off. Since the master is actually
grounding the contactor (solenoid), there is no power passing it when it is
not grounded. Mine is located close to the battery on the engine side of
the firewall and is the continuous type. Sounds like you can easily make
your Composite Design box happy. Depending on the alternator (three phase
or single phase), the alternator hookup is slightly different too.
Jeff D
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300
I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am
building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator).
The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and
not wired direct.
My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA
guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker
switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions:
Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid?
Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the
Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks ahead of time for the help...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 |
| From: | "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid right
next to the one for the starter.
Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type?
I was thinking of using this master relay from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php
It is light and easy to wire up?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164911#164911
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 |
As I remember, it came from B&C Specialty and had the diode already wired up
saving just a bit of extra work. I have also used Terminal Town, Aircraft
Spruce, and others for electrical stuff. And yes, I mounted the two
solenoids close together. A picture is attached.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid
right next to the one for the starter.
Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/08 |
Hi,
Good work you do, however can you take me off the list?
Thanks
Paul de Jung
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Electrical setup for my 3300 |
I'll be honest here I had to read your question a couple of times to get the
gist of what you were asking.
Why does Cessna use a solenoid on the battery... simply to isolate the
battery from the rest of the aircraft.
The reason to do it through a solenoid is to allow for lighter wiring
carrying less amperage to the panel/switch/circuit breaker. Also when the
current provided by the battery get's low enough the solenoid will open not
allowing the battery to completely discharge.
The use of the solenoid also gives a level of protection to the heavy cable
going from the battery to the starter. One place the solenoid could be
turned off is if the starter jammed in the on position. Shutting down the
battery would also shut down power to the starter motor.
The Cessna also has a second solenoid to automatically connect ground power
to the airplane for starting through the exterior connection. One nice side
to that relay is the exterior connector can't be used to blow up air
mattresses etc.
Darned if I know if it is possible to short the electrical system through
the alternator/generator but if it is possible, then the double switches
allow the pilot to isolate one power system from the other. Also the
engines don't require electrical power to run unless they have electric fuel
pumps so operation on batteries only, should last for several hours if
unnecessary loads are shut down.
My plane only has a 582 in it right now but I rewired it with a solenoid at
the battery to provide power to the starter. I have a fused link at the
solenoid protecting the energizer wire to the master switch. The master
switch only needs to connect that wire to ground to energize the master
relay. My generator is connected to the power buss through a circuit
breaker. After all it is only 15A. I also have a small wire from the
supply side of the relay that only powers my clock
BTW the solenoid used is not a starter solenoid. Starter solenoids will
heat up and possibly burn out in short order. The relay I used is one from
a trailer supply outlet and is normally used to wire auxiliary batteries to
cars so when the car is stopped the main battery is disconnected from the
trailer power. Not having the relay in there can be embarrassing when you
want to start the car again only to find you have run both batteries flat.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300
I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am
building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator).
The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and
not wired direct.
My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA
guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker
switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions:
Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid?
Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the
Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks ahead of time for the help...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Electrical setup for my 3300 |
In the C-185 the battery and two relays (1 for exterior power) are behind
the cargo compartment behind the passenger compartment... So even with the
relays the heavy hot wire has to pass under the floor up to the engine
compartment. The run from the battery to the main relay is very short as
both relays are mounted to the exterior of the battery box.
The exterior power relay has a diode on the energizer line so if the
connector is reverse wired the relay will not make the connection with the
AC battery.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300
When I last talked to Pete about this, his answer was that you can use or
not use a battery solenoid as you please. With help from others on the
list, I used a battery solenoid mainly to keep all the "live" wires in front
of the firewall when the master is off. Since the master is actually
grounding the contactor (solenoid), there is no power passing it when it is
not grounded. Mine is located close to the battery on the engine side of
the firewall and is the continuous type. Sounds like you can easily make
your Composite Design box happy. Depending on the alternator (three phase
or single phase), the alternator hookup is slightly different too.
Jeff D
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300
I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am
building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator).
The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and
not wired direct.
My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA
guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker
switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions:
Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid?
Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the
Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other?
Thanks ahead of time for the help...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 |
That's the beast you want... Price is pretty good too!
To keep your always hot 4-0 cable as short as possible mount your relay
right on the outside of your battery box.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300
Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid
right next to the one for the starter.
Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type?
I was thinking of using this master relay from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php
It is light and easy to wire up?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164911#164911
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 |
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Not saying this is the wrong place, but can I recommend that you guys direct your
electronic questions on the Jab (or any engine) to the aeroelectric forum on
this website. The guys there REALLY know how these things hang together.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165062#165062
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | Rough running 2200 |
1. Several flying hours ago my 2200 (solid lifters-#988) started running
rough at full throttle (~3140 rpm) and a bit rough about 3000 rpm (95
total hours). The float bowl was running over. My float needle was the
one with the weak spring so I put in a new float needle with the
stronger spring. Now, no fuel running over, engine off with Facet fuel
pump for several minutes.
2. Engine still is rough at high throttle, I thought it might be rich so
I installed 4 EGT probes 120 mm from exhaust faces before changing any
jets. My main jet is 255.
3. At 2800 rpm all 4 cylinders are 1200 F, a bit cool for this rpm,
engine is smooth as silk.
4. At 3000 rpm number 3 (hottest) is 1275 F, number 2 (coolest) is 1200
F and engine is slightly rough.
5. At full throttle number 1 and 3 are 1300 F a bit high (2 is 1200, 4
is 1250), number 3 CHT is 250 F others about 225 F. One time I saw
number 3 almost to 1375 F. Engine is really pretty rough.
6. If number 3 EGT probe was in error it would have been different from
the others at 2800 rpm, but it wasn't.
7. The throttle movement from 3000 rpm to full throttle is about 20% of
the throw with little change in rpm. Number 3 EGT drops quickly after
going from full throttle back to about 3000 rpm.
8. I just finished my condition inspection and the compression varied
from about 71/80 (#4) to 63/80 (#3).
9. I have a 2 =BC" radiator hose (90 degree bend) going into the carb.
10. How can the EGT's be so high at higher throttle settings with a 255
main jet?
And most important, what can be causing the rough engine?
Thanks,
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Rough running 2200 |
What happens when you apply carb heat or apply choke when it is running
rough? Does it get better or worse?
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Deiterich
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Rough running 2200
1. Several flying hours ago my 2200 (solid lifters-#988) started running
rough at full throttle (~3140 rpm) and a bit rough about 3000 rpm (95
total
hours). The float bowl was running over. My float needle was the one
with
the weak spring so I put in a new float needle with the stronger spring.
Now, no fuel running over, engine off with Facet fuel pump for several
minutes.
2. Engine still is rough at high throttle, I thought it might be rich so
I
installed 4 EGT probes 120 mm from exhaust faces before changing any
jets.
My main jet is 255.
3. At 2800 rpm all 4 cylinders are 1200 F, a bit cool for this rpm,
engine
is smooth as silk.
4. At 3000 rpm number 3 (hottest) is 1275 F, number 2 (coolest) is 1200
F
and engine is slightly rough.
5. At full throttle number 1 and 3 are 1300 F a bit high (2 is 1200, 4
is
1250), number 3 CHT is 250 F others about 225 F. One time I saw number 3
almost to 1375 F. Engine is really pretty rough.
6. If number 3 EGT probe was in error it would have been different from
the
others at 2800 rpm, but it wasn=92t.
7. The throttle movement from 3000 rpm to full throttle is about 20% of
the
throw with little change in rpm. Number 3 EGT drops quickly after going
from
full throttle back to about 3000 rpm.
8. I just finished my condition inspection and the compression varied
from
about 71/80 (#4) to 63/80 (#3).
9. I have a 2 =BC" radiator hose (90 degree bend) going into the carb.
10. How can the EGT=92s be so high at higher throttle settings with a
255 main
jet?
And most important, what can be causing the rough engine?
Thanks,
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Rough running 2200 |
Chuck,
The needle valve seat usually leaks at anything above 2800 because the
seat
supplied is meant for gravity feed.
Also at the high throttle settings the fuel/air intake becomes uneven
because of induction pulses in the small induction pipes collector which
is
less than 1/2L in capacity. I am working on a 3.5L intake manifold to
solve
my engine which is now fuel injected.
During development I found that EGT R was about 100degC greater than EGT
L
and was told that this is common, but when I increased the butterfly
diameter EGT L became 100degC hotter than EGT R. I think the turbulence
in
that induction collector is disturbing fuel/air distribution and the
effect
is different at different RPM and worst at WOT.
When the fuel/air mix is out of balance the engine runs out of balance
or
slightly rough because the power strokes are not uniform. On one
occasion I
had the engine shake badly.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Deiterich
Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Rough running 2200
1. Several flying hours ago my 2200 (solid lifters-#988) started running
rough at full throttle (~3140 rpm) and a bit rough about 3000 rpm (95
total
hours). The float bowl was running over. My float needle was the one
with
the weak spring so I put in a new float needle with the stronger spring.
Now, no fuel running over, engine off with Facet fuel pump for several
minutes.
2. Engine still is rough at high throttle, I thought it might be rich so
I
installed 4 EGT probes 120 mm from exhaust faces before changing any
jets.
My main jet is 255.
3. At 2800 rpm all 4 cylinders are 1200 F, a bit cool for this rpm,
engine
is smooth as silk.
4. At 3000 rpm number 3 (hottest) is 1275 F, number 2 (coolest) is 1200
F
and engine is slightly rough.
5. At full throttle number 1 and 3 are 1300 F a bit high (2 is 1200, 4
is
1250), number 3 CHT is 250 F others about 225 F. One time I saw number 3
almost to 1375 F. Engine is really pretty rough.
6. If number 3 EGT probe was in error it would have been different from
the
others at 2800 rpm, but it wasn=92t.
7. The throttle movement from 3000 rpm to full throttle is about 20% of
the
throw with little change in rpm. Number 3 EGT drops quickly after going
from
full throttle back to about 3000 rpm.
8. I just finished my condition inspection and the compression varied
from
about 71/80 (#4) to 63/80 (#3).
9. I have a 2 =BC" radiator hose (90 degree bend) going into the carb.
10. How can the EGT=92s be so high at higher throttle settings with a
255 main
jet?
And most important, what can be causing the rough engine?
Thanks,
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary tackett <garyjoyce1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just Highlander 3300 |
Thanks Don
Sorry it took so long to respond. I am in Florida for the winter and had no computer.
I spoke with Pete at the Light Sport Convention and he showed me some
baffle techniques that may help me. I sure do appreciate your positive response.
Gary Tackett
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Morrisey <donmorrisey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:00:15 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Just Highlander 3300
Gary, if you go to the yahoo jabiru engine email list and search for Fisher Dakota
Hawk. There are several builders of that airplane using a standard lyc/conti
cowl pressurization baffle system. One builder/pilot in Australia swears
by it after having heating issues with an early 3300.
However, you shouldn't have an issue if you install the engine and ram air ducts
properly.
Don.
www.donsbushcaddy.com
Don Morrisey's Skunkworks
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary tackett <garyjoyce1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just Highlander 3300 |
Not a Troll, Just new to the Jabiru 2200 in a pusher application.
Gary Tackett
----- Original Message ----
From: Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:36:19 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Just Highlander 3300
Glad to see I'm not the only one suspecting this to be a troll..
;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Morrisey
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Just Highlander 3300
Gary, if you go to the yahoo jabiru engine email list and search for Fisher
Dakota Hawk. There are several builders of that airplane using a standard
lyc/conti cowl pressurization baffle system. One builder/pilot in Australia
swears by it after having heating issues with an early 3300.
However, you shouldn't have an issue if you install the engine and ram air
ducts properly.
Don.
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary tackett <garyjoyce1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just Highlander 3300 |
Hi Rich
Sorry if I mistyped the engine model, It is a 2200 and is on a Rans S-12XL. It
did not get too hot and was only for a short time in which I pulled back on the
throttle and cooled it down. I had only 6 hours on the engine before I put
it into winter storage and went to Florida for the winter, I haven't been able
to respond because I have no computer down here.But, thanks anyway.
Gary
----- Original Message ----
From: "N1BZRich(at)aol.com" <N1BZRich(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 5:00:44 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Just Highlander 3300
In a message dated 1/16/2008 1:08:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, japhillipsga(at)aol.com
writes:
Gary, you know your probably correct about that Jab 3300 engine overheating. It
probably will overheat and ruin and you'll lose everything. I might be able to
help you out with your problem and I was thinking about building an airboat
and it might work on it. I'll help you and buy your 3300 from you if your really
concerned. Can't really pay you much for an engine that's probably a dud. I'll
offer you $2,000.
What a bunch of crock. If the Jabiru 3300 is installed correctly using the
supplied parts as specified, then you should be able to get the CHTs into the
correct range. You can do some adjusting on individual CHTs by placing small
deflectors over individual cylinders and by slightly changing the baffle height
in front of #1 and #3 which will change the amount of air that goes through
the fiber-glass air ducts. Remember, you want high pressure on top of the cylinders
and low pressure under them. You can also help the situation by installing
a small air dam to help air exit at the aft end of the lower cowling. This
of course lowers air pressure under the cylinders and increases the air flow
through the cylinders.
I have flown seven different Jabiru powered aircraft (six with the 3300 and
one with the 2200) and with these adjustments as mentioned above, all have been
well within the CHT ranges. The slowest was a Rans S7 and with the 3300 it
was a real Super Cub beater. Fun airplane. Next slowest was a Zodiac 601XL
which my EAA chapter built with me being the lead technical advisor and once again
the air duct adjustments with small deflectors over the cylinders needing
more cooling air did the trick. All the other Jabiru powered airplanes that
I have flown have been the speedier homebuilts like the Esqual and Lightning.
Again, no problems if you install the engine and air ducts as specified. If
you continue to have problems, call the folks at Jabiru USA in Tennessee. In
my mind, they are the experts. In fact, if you have not been to their Jabiur
engine school, you have short changed yourself in your quest for knowledge.
Blue Skies,
Buz Rich
Highly modified Esqual with lots of Lightning stuff and a 3300 Jab that has
416 hours on it in the last 2 years. No problems on it and I run it hard.
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
Pete and Andy,
I have one of the first fwf kits for 3300 into Zenith 601. This is the
one with the large (too large) airbox that we had to make some mods to
in the linkage and fit it up under the firewall shelf. What auto
airfilter is used in that box? Is there a K&N filter that those of us
with that airbox can use? Any numbers? You handle it?
Second, Andy I can remember you writing in detail about the Odyssey
batteries and their rather finicky ways when it comes to charging. I
have a 625 that is presently on the table in the hangar, used very
little because it was no improvement over the cheap 17amh batteries from
Batteries.com. Is there hope for this battery (maybe too old) if I get
a "correct" charger for the Odyssey line. On the old yahoojabbytalk
list you once wrote of a charger that had impressed you - mind briefly
repeating that?
I have the old small starter (engine 051) and starts in cold wx are fine
with the usual preheat routine done in the hangar, however the beast
leaves us down if we fly for food and allow it to sit too long. Am I
looking at the newer, larger starter?..and how much does that run
pricewise?
thanks jeff small HDS/3300 315 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim(at)jabirupacific.com" <jim(at)jabirupacific.com> |
Hi Jeff
The K&N 33-2031-2 fits in the large Jabiru air box.
As far as charging the battery I would recommend you put a 10 amp charger on
it and charge it till you reach 14.9 volts on a DVM, the turn the charger
off!
Don't charge it past 15 volts.
The current starters are $543.00
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Pete and Andy,
I have one of the first fwf kits for 3300 into Zenith 601. This is the
one with the large (too large) airbox that we had to make some mods to in
the linkage and fit it up under the firewall shelf. What auto airfilter is
used in that box? Is there a K&N filter that those of us with that airbox
can use? Any numbers? You handle it?
Second, Andy I can remember you writing in detail about the Odyssey
batteries and their rather finicky ways when it comes to charging. I have a
625 that is presently on the table in the hangar, used very little because
it was no improvement over the cheap 17amh batteries from Batteries.com. Is
there hope for this battery (maybe too old) if I get a "correct" charger for
the Odyssey line. On the old yahoojabbytalk list you once wrote of a
charger that had impressed you - mind briefly repeating that?
I have the old small starter (engine 051) and starts in cold wx are fine
with the usual preheat routine done in the hangar, however the beast leaves
us down if we fly for food and allow it to sit too long. Am I looking at
the newer, larger starter?..and how much does that run pricewise?
thanks jeff small HDS/3300 315 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Jeff, Jim
I have the Odyssey PC625 on my 3300, 20aH. I was also told not to
charge it above 15v charger becasue the AGM battery would be ruined.
They told me to get a 3 phase charger such as any Odyssey and not a bulk
charger like an automobile charger. I got the Odyssey 12Amp battery
charger which tops off the battery automatically without going above
14.7v. I think this charger is great for the money @ $85 with shipping.
They have slower chargers for less but I wanted one that can do my
battery while I am doing the preflight check. I called Odyssey and
their technical support is great and they told me what to do.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim(at)jabirupacific.com
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Hi Jeff
The K&N 33-2031-2 fits in the large Jabiru air box.
As far as charging the battery I would recommend you put a 10 amp
charger on it and charge it till you reach 14.9 volts on a DVM, the turn
the charger off!
Don't charge it past 15 volts.
The current starters are $543.00
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Pete and Andy,
I have one of the first fwf kits for 3300 into Zenith 601. This is
the one with the large (too large) airbox that we had to make some mods
to in the linkage and fit it up under the firewall shelf. What auto
airfilter is used in that box? Is there a K&N filter that those of us
with that airbox can use? Any numbers? You handle it?
Second, Andy I can remember you writing in detail about the Odyssey
batteries and their rather finicky ways when it comes to charging. I
have a 625 that is presently on the table in the hangar, used very
little because it was no improvement over the cheap 17amh batteries from
Batteries.com. Is there hope for this battery (maybe too old) if I get
a "correct" charger for the Odyssey line. On the old yahoojabbytalk
list you once wrote of a charger that had impressed you - mind briefly
repeating that?
I have the old small starter (engine 051) and starts in cold wx are
fine with the usual preheat routine done in the hangar, however the
beast leaves us down if we fly for food and allow it to sit too long.
Am I looking at the newer, larger starter?..and how much does that run
pricewise?
thanks jeff small HDS/3300 315 hours
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
I've used these very successfully on SVLA batteries- hook 'em up and forget
about 'em:
_http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_3_
(http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_3)
_http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_2_
(http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_2)
Mark
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim(at)jabirupacific.com" <jim(at)jabirupacific.com> |
Hi Ivan
Thank your for the info!
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ivan
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:26 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Jeff, Jim
I have the Odyssey PC625 on my 3300, 20aH. I was also told not to charge
it above 15v charger becasue the AGM battery would be ruined. They told me
to get a 3 phase charger such as any Odyssey and not a bulk charger like an
automobile charger. I got the Odyssey 12Amp battery charger which tops off
the battery automatically without going above 14.7v. I think this charger
is great for the money @ $85 with shipping. They have slower chargers for
less but I wanted one that can do my battery while I am doing the preflight
check. I called Odyssey and their technical support is great and they told
me what to do.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim(at)jabirupacific.com
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Hi Jeff
The K&N 33-2031-2 fits in the large Jabiru air box.
As far as charging the battery I would recommend you put a 10 amp
charger on it and charge it till you reach 14.9 volts on a DVM, the turn the
charger off!
Don't charge it past 15 volts.
The current starters are $543.00
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Pete and Andy,
I have one of the first fwf kits for 3300 into Zenith 601. This is
the one with the large (too large) airbox that we had to make some mods to
in the linkage and fit it up under the firewall shelf. What auto airfilter
is used in that box? Is there a K&N filter that those of us with that
airbox can use? Any numbers? You handle it?
Second, Andy I can remember you writing in detail about the Odyssey
batteries and their rather finicky ways when it comes to charging. I have a
625 that is presently on the table in the hangar, used very little because
it was no improvement over the cheap 17amh batteries from Batteries.com. Is
there hope for this battery (maybe too old) if I get a "correct" charger for
the Odyssey line. On the old yahoojabbytalk list you once wrote of a
charger that had impressed you - mind briefly repeating that?
I have the old small starter (engine 051) and starts in cold wx are
fine with the usual preheat routine done in the hangar, however the beast
leaves us down if we fly for food and allow it to sit too long. Am I
looking at the newer, larger starter?..and how much does that run pricewise?
thanks jeff small HDS/3300 315 hours
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Jim
No problem. You have been a great help to us all many times.
Thanks
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim(at)jabirupacific.com
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Hi Ivan
Thank your for the info!
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ivan
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:26 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Jeff, Jim
I have the Odyssey PC625 on my 3300, 20aH. I was also told not to
charge it above 15v charger becasue the AGM battery would be ruined.
They told me to get a 3 phase charger such as any Odyssey and not a bulk
charger like an automobile charger. I got the Odyssey 12Amp battery
charger which tops off the battery automatically without going above
14.7v. I think this charger is great for the money @ $85 with shipping.
They have slower chargers for less but I wanted one that can do my
battery while I am doing the preflight check. I called Odyssey and
their technical support is great and they told me what to do.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim(at)jabirupacific.com
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Hi Jeff
The K&N 33-2031-2 fits in the large Jabiru air box.
As far as charging the battery I would recommend you put a 10 amp
charger on it and charge it till you reach 14.9 volts on a DVM, the turn
the charger off!
Don't charge it past 15 volts.
The current starters are $543.00
Jim McCormick
Jabiru Pacific LLC
255 W Fallbrook 202B
Fresno, CA 93711
Office 559-431-1701
Fax 559-233-3676
www.jabirupacific.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of THOMAS
SMALL
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: two questions
Pete and Andy,
I have one of the first fwf kits for 3300 into Zenith 601. This
is the one with the large (too large) airbox that we had to make some
mods to in the linkage and fit it up under the firewall shelf. What
auto airfilter is used in that box? Is there a K&N filter that those of
us with that airbox can use? Any numbers? You handle it?
Second, Andy I can remember you writing in detail about the
Odyssey batteries and their rather finicky ways when it comes to
charging. I have a 625 that is presently on the table in the hangar,
used very little because it was no improvement over the cheap 17amh
batteries from Batteries.com. Is there hope for this battery (maybe too
old) if I get a "correct" charger for the Odyssey line. On the old
yahoojabbytalk list you once wrote of a charger that had impressed you -
mind briefly repeating that?
I have the old small starter (engine 051) and starts in cold wx
are fine with the usual preheat routine done in the hangar, however the
beast leaves us down if we fly for food and allow it to sit too long.
Am I looking at the newer, larger starter?..and how much does that run
pricewise?
thanks jeff small HDS/3300 315 hours
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | some charging info for Odyssey batteries |
Somewhat helpful...jeff
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey charger |
Just FYI, at a member's request:
I got my Odyssey Ultimizer 12A at Battery-Web.com. I am placing a link
to their website below. Their published price for the charger is now
$88:
http://www.batteryweb.com/odyssey-ultimizer.cfm
Hope this helps.
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)cruzcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was Digest...) |
The B&C SD-8 may be what you're looking for. It fits the 3300 accessory pad
-- not sure about the 2200. See http://bandc.biz
Ron
On 2/28/08, Bob Haas wrote:
>
> checkpoint2(at)comcast.net>
>
> Any one, is there an alternator suitable for the 2200 that fits on
> The rear drive pad? BH N 380 BH.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was Digest...) |
Bob,
Just curious to know about any problem you had with the PM alternator as
supplied ?
Regards
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Friday, 29 February 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was Digest...)
The B&C SD-8 may be what you're looking for. It fits the 3300 accessory pad
-- not sure about the 2200. See http://bandc.biz
Ron
On 2/28/08, Bob Haas wrote:
Any one, is there an alternator suitable for the 2200 that fits on
The rear drive pad? BH N 380 BH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was Digest...) |
No problems, I would like more amperage cushion. B.H.
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was
Digest...)
Bob,
Just curious to know about any problem you had with the PM alternator as
supplied ?
Regards
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Friday, 29 February 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 2200 Accessory Alternator (was Digest...)
The B&C SD-8 may be what you're looking for. It fits the 3300 accessory pad
-- not sure about the 2200. See http://bandc.biz
Ron
On 2/28/08, Bob Haas wrote:
Any one, is there an alternator suitable for the 2200 that fits on
The rear drive pad? BH N 380 BH.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | Kitplanes Article |
I have an article in the April Kitplanes magazine which some of you
might find interesting.
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | US Jabiru dealership for sale |
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc. is selling its Jabiru aircraft and Engines
Dealership business, currently based in Florida. The dealership has a
non-exclusive USA-wide sales territory and contracts direct with Jabiru
Aircraft in Australia for importation and sales of Jabiru aircraft and
engines within USA. For further information and enquiries please contact
andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com and not through this list. Thanks.
Andy Silvester
www.suncoastjabiru.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Jbiru 3300 Distributor Cap and Rotor |
Hey guys: Can anyone tell me What the correct parts are to replace the
distributor caps and rotors on my Jabiru 3300? I think the proper parts might
involve a 1970's car, but I am not sure. I know the proper Jabiru part numbers
are PG 0190N (rotor) and PG 0180N for the cap. but I do not know what the *GB74
and *BH73 stand for.
Thanks
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Jbiru 3300 Distributor Cap and Rotor |
The cap and rotor are Bosch ignition parts. Bosch numbers are GB73 and
GB74. I believe they are from a Holden Automobile.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 5:12 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jbiru 3300 Distributor Cap and Rotor
Hey guys: Can anyone tell me What the correct parts are to replace the
distributor caps and rotors on my Jabiru 3300? I think the proper parts
might involve a 1970's car, but I am not sure. I know the proper Jabiru part
numbers are PG 0190N (rotor) and PG 0180N for the cap. but I do not know
what the *GB74 and *BH73 stand for.
Thanks
_____
It's Tax Time! Get <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3300 in A Kitfox IV Classic |
| From: | "bigboyzt0yz" <bigboyzt0yz(at)yahoo.com> |
Thinking about changing out my 80 hp rotax 912 UL and upgrading to the 3300. what
do I have to do and what can I look forward to?
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100%
Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 "Have
your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169749#169749
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am getting ready to install my propeller on my 3300. I know I had somewhere
in my notes that there was a recommended way to position the prop when installed
and have a pretty good chance that it would stop horizontal when the engine
was turned off. It was something like place cylinder #xxx at position xxx and
place the prop at angle xxx. I searched the archives here and could not find
it either.
Does anybody have this they could share??
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail & wings completed and
fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169750#169750
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3300 in A Kitfox IV Classic |
In a message dated 3/14/2008 12:45:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bigboyzt0yz(at)yahoo.com writes:
Thinking about changing out my 80 hp rotax 912 UL and upgrading to the 3300.
what do I have to do and what can I look forward to?
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive
prop/100% Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since
Aug
07 "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
Lee,
I live near Pikesville and would like to speak to you about selling you a
Jab engine.
I tried to email you, but it bounced.
Email me back at _kayberg(at)aol.com_ (mailto:kayberg(at)aol.com) or call my cell
at 443-506-7636.
Lets talk planes, engines and airports!!!
Doug Koenigsberg
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jabiru USA" <info(at)usjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | 3300 in A Kitfox IV Classic |
The best information will come from Dave Jalanti, our Kitfox expert from
Hudson NY. Dave works with us and has installed Jabiru engines in a number
of Kitfox aircraft and has been the advisor on many others.
Contact Dave at dave(at)jabirups.com His web site is www.jabirups.com His
business is called Jabiru Power Solutions.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bigboyzt0yz
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300 in A Kitfox IV Classic
Thinking about changing out my 80 hp rotax 912 UL and upgrading to the 3300.
what do I have to do and what can I look forward to?
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive
prop/100% Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane
since Aug 07 "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the
sky".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169749#169749
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electrical Newbie Question |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
I have a 3300A and am planning the electrical system for my Zodiac XL. I've looked
at what others have done and absorbed much, but still have questions. I
wish to keep things as simple as possible so hopefully you'll share your ideas
with me.
Alternator / Regulator - I note that the Jabiru wiring diagram shows an unfused
#10 to wire from battery to regulator (red wire) and an unfused #16 to the main
bus (yellow wire.)
What I would like suggestions on is the best way to disconnect the alternator from
the main bus in the event that I need to run soley on battery power due to
a failure of some type. Would a switch on the yellow wire suffice or do I need
to break the red wire as well? Any recommendations as to fusing?
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170007#170007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)cruzcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Newbie Question |
Tim,
Because your specifics are related to other issues in your system design as
a whole (and Jabiru's diagrams are not the last word) I'd highly recommend
that you get a copy of _The Aerolectric Connection_ by Bob Nuckolls, from
http:/aeroelectric.com It will answer many of your questions, and has
numerous well thought out sample wiring schematics for whole systems, as
well as specialized subsystems (ground power, aux. batteries, various
protection circuits, etc.) It's only $20, or if you like to read things on
your screen, you can download a PDF of the whole thing for free.
You should also consider subscribing to the Aeroelectric Connection mailing
list at http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Ron
On 3/15/08, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
>
> I have a 3300A and am planning the electrical system for my Zodiac
> XL. I've looked at what others have done and absorbed much, but still have
> questions. I wish to keep things as simple as possible so hopefully you'll
> share your ideas with me.
>
> Alternator / Regulator - I note that the Jabiru wiring diagram shows an
> unfused #10 to wire from battery to regulator (red wire) and an unfused #16
> to the main bus (yellow wire.)
>
> What I would like suggestions on is the best way to disconnect the
> alternator from the main bus in the event that I need to run soley on
> battery power due to a failure of some type. Would a switch on the yellow
> wire suffice or do I need to break the red wire as well? Any
> recommendations as to fusing?
>
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)cruzcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Newbie Question |
[RESENDING DUE TO APPARENT ERROR]
Tim,
Because your specifics are related to other issues in your system design as
a whole (and Jabiru's diagrams are not the last word) I'd highly recommend
that you get a copy of _The Aerolectric Connection_ by Bob Nuckolls, from
http:/aeroelectric.com It will answer many of your questions, and has
numerous well thought out sample wiring schematics for whole systems, as
well as specialized subsystems (ground power, aux. batteries, various
protection circuits, etc.) It's only $20, or if you like to read things on
your screen, you can download a PDF of the whole thing for free.
You should also consider subscribing to the Aeroelectric Connection mailing
list at http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Ron
On 3/15/08, Tim Juhl wrote:
>
>
> I have a 3300A and am planning the electrical system for my Zodiac
> XL. I've looked at what others have done and absorbed much, but still have
> questions. I wish to keep things as simple as possible so hopefully you'll
> share your ideas with me.
>
> Alternator / Regulator - I note that the Jabiru wiring diagram shows an
> unfused #10 to wire from battery to regulator (red wire) and an unfused #16
> to the main bus (yellow wire.)
>
> What I would like suggestions on is the best way to disconnect the
> alternator from the main bus in the event that I need to run soley on
> battery power due to a failure of some type. Would a switch on the yellow
> wire suffice or do I need to break the red wire as well? Any
> recommendations as to fusing?
>
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Prop |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I guess I can follow-up to my own question. I received a note pointing me to the http://www.jabiru.flyer.co.uk/ web site. Here you will find the following comment:
Stand in front of the prop looking back towards the flywheel. Position the flywheel
so that the magnets are vertical. Position the prop so that it is located
in the prop guides that give it an 11.00 o'clock position. It should now stop
in the horizontal.
This worked for me. I ran my engine for the first time this weekend and on three
of the four shutdowns, the prop stopped horizontal. On the one other shutdown,
is stopped at 2 o'clock/8 o'clock. This is good enough for me.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail & wings completed and
fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170387#170387
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Pickford" <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Prop |
Don't know about the 6 but on the 2200 I put #1 cylinder top D C then
put the prop vertical. Stops horizontally 9 out of 10
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DaveG601XL
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:46 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Horizontal Prop
I guess I can follow-up to my own question. I received a note pointing
me to the http://www.jabiru.flyer.co.uk/ web site. Here you will find
the following comment:
Stand in front of the prop looking back towards the flywheel. Position
the flywheel so that the magnets are vertical. Position the prop so that
it is located in the prop guides that give it an 11.00 o'clock position.
It should now stop in the horizontal.
This worked for me. I ran my engine for the first time this weekend and
on three of the four shutdowns, the prop stopped horizontal. On the one
other shutdown, is stopped at 2 o'clock/8 o'clock. This is good enough
for me.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail & wings completed and
fueslage pretty well done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170387#170387
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Newbie Question |
| From: | "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> |
Tim,
Your best bet on electrical questions is to join aeroelectric-list@matronics.com . Bob is the man in the know and buy his book, it is the best money you will spend in the building process. Here is a link to his website http://www.aeroelectric.com/. He has diagrams that address all of your questions and more.
Paul
Q2 Jabiru 3300
550 hrs
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170483#170483
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ne-List:New Topic |
Good Evening All,
Got home last night after attending the Friday through Sunday Jabiru Engine
Operators Course presented by Jabiru USA at Shelbyville, Tennessee.
Well worth the time and funds expended. I recommend it highly to all who
operate or intend to operate a Jabiru engine.
PS. I also agree that Bob N's information and guidance is very valuable.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/17/2008 5:39:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
loadout(at)bresnan.net writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "wypaul"
Tim,
Your best bet on electrical questions is to join
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com . Bob is the man in the know and buy his book,
it is the best money you
will spend in the building process. Here is a link to his website
http://www.aeroelectric.com/. He has diagrams that address all of your questions
and more.
Paul
Q2 Jabiru 3300
550 hrs
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> |
I am wondering if any of you are using a split master switch with your Jabiru,
and if so, how did you wire the regulator side?
Linda, I thought you guys did this?
I am at the point where I would like to wire this switch and am wondering how I
should do it?
Jim!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171534#171534
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/21/08 |
I use a Cessna Type Alt/Master split switch, which came with my Power Panel.
The Alt, which usually provides power for the Alt Field in a regular
alternator (the Jab has a permanent magnet alternator), provides +12V to a
Radio Shack, 12V - 30 Amp relay when the alt switch is ON.
The "Red" wire from my voltage regulator goes to the relay and then to the
master solenoid. The master solenoid also has a line from the battery, so
in effect the alternator provides power to the battery also when the relay
is on, i.e Alt ON. I also have a 30 Amp fuse in the line.
I have the "yellow wire" (voltage sense wire for the alternator) attached
straight to the batt +
Tony Graziano
601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 359 hrs
----- Original Message ----- > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Wiring 3300 to an
alternator switch
> From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>
>
>
> I am wondering if any of you are using a split master switch with your
> Jabiru,
> and if so, how did you wire the regulator side?
>
> Linda, I thought you guys did this?
>
> I am at the point where I would like to wire this switch and am wondering
> how I
> should do it?
>
> Jim!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171534#171534
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net> |
I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300. If I remember correctly I took the
yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split switch.
I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of the "Master"
switch. Note: If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine running,
you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue caused me
a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem! I can verify
the exact schematic upon request.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171722#171722
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Ron,
I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator
works on the Jabiru engine.
When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent
magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will
explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an answer
to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I want is
instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is very
difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.
Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"
I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300. If I remember correctly I took
the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split
switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of
the "Master" switch. Note: If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine
running, you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this issue
caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own problem! I
can verify the exact schematic upon request.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net> |
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171729#171729
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Ronco" <joe(at)halzel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Chapter 3 in The AeroElectric Connection Book talks about PM alternators.
Joe R
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Ron,
I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator
works on the Jabiru engine.
When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent
magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will
explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an
answer to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I
want is instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is
very difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.
Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300. If I remember correctly I took
the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split
switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of
the "Master" switch. Note: If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine
running, you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this
issue caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own
problem! I can verify the exact schematic upon request.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Ron,
I graduated from the Aviation Electrician Mate training at Naval Air
Station, Jacksonville, in 1947 (top man in my class by the way) but can recall
no
training concerning permanent magnet alternators!
Thanks for the reference. I will get to studying right away.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is
generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has done
quite
well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and
all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics
if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is
generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Afternoon Joe,
Gad! I should have looked! Thanks Joe.
Once again, I will have to call upon 'Lectric Bob for my rescue.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:48:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
joe(at)halzel.com writes:
Chapter 3 in The AeroElectric Connection Book talks about PM alternators.
Joe R
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
There is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru manual.
-- Craig
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has
done quite well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification
and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of
electronics if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the
regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Afternoon Craig,
I did read that, but all it says is that if the voltage gets too high, it
cuts off!
No description of how it is supposed to work, how it cuts off and of what
happens to the current flow and operating temperatures when it is cut off.
What I am looking for is an explanation of the theory and the actual
procedures used. I read Bob Nuckolls' explanation and the one so kindly provided
by
Ron about outboard motors. The most descriptive thus far has been the
Evinrude material.
I still have not seen anything that tells us how the current and/or voltage
is regulated or controlled. It appears that crude systems just sink it to
ground and generate heat doing so while Evinrude has seemingly found a way to
mitigate the disadvantages of doing that.
Still searching for the "Rest Of The Story"!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 12:27:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:
There is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru manual.
-- Craig
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Bob,
You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of
the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from
the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth
during the rectification/regulation process.
It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage
protection is worthwile in case the regulator burns out.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 2:47 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has
done quite well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification
and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of
electronics if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the
regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Peter,
Thanks for the information.
Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there
a common method that has been successful?
As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully inadequate.
Are there any good sources of data that I can study?
If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection such
that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged or
is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Bob,
You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of
the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the
PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth
during the rectification/regulation process.
It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage
protection is worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.
Peter H
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Bob,
Use the B&C over voltage protection system (504-1 PM-OV) designed for
permanent magnet alternators. See http://www.bandc.biz/PmOVdesc.html
Ron
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:24 PM, wrote:
> Good Evening Peter,
>
> Thanks for the information.
>
> Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is
> there a common method that has been successful?
>
> As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully
> inadequate.
>
> Are there any good sources of data that I can study?
>
> If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection
> such that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be
> damaged or is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Ron,
I will contact Bill on Monday. Great thought!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:08:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM writes:
Bob,
Use the B&C over voltage protection system (504-1 PM-OV) designed for
permanent magnet alternators. See _http://www.bandc.biz/PmOVdesc.html_
(http://www.bandc.biz/PmOVdesc.html)
Ron
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> |
lectric Bob is the man for these question. I am using Bob's crowbar setup for
over voltage protection with the Jabiru but flew behind a Revmaster for 200 hrs.
without it. Ya don't need it tell you do. Bob's friends at B & C will be
another good source of info.
http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html
Paul
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171843#171843
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
That's where the confusion starts. If it has a permanent magnet it is
called a generator or a magneto. If this is the case you you can shut off
the output by switching the heavy wire that goes from the magneto to the
battery. Generators and magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to
generate electrical power so over voltage is not generally a consideration.
Alternators, instead of spinning a large magnet inside a bunch of coils,
spins an electromagnet instead. By varying the voltage hitting the
electromagnet on a wire marked F for field or field coil, the output of the
alternator can be varied... the more power delivered to the field coil
through the F connector the more current produced by the alternator. The
regulator controls this power output. The idea is two fold... First the
current in the field coil is relatively small so a small current can control
a much larger output current so the large contactors that used to be found
in early cars and trucks are not needed. If too much current is fed to the
F connector the alternator can actually go into overvoltage... This usually
turns on a little light and at the same time chops the power to the field
coil so the output of the alternator drops to 0.
Either way a switch designed to take the maximum current output of the
alternator or generator can be placed in the larger power wire between the
alternator and the battery or main buss depending on how your plane is
wired.
Alternators all produce alternating current AC which needs to be turned into
direct current DC. This is usually done through a little device called a
rectifier bridge. This bridge is constructed by four considerably large
diodes. Some alternators have one or two rectifier bridges built right into
them. The reason a shut off switch in the large wire is a good idea is
encase you burn out one or more of the diodes and short out your battery....
Actually a circuit breaker is also a good idea.
The F lead, a ground and possibly a voltage sensing lead are generally
connected via a plug in with a specific shape for your alternator..... The
power output on the alternator is generally a lug with a nut to hold the
wire on the lug and sometimes a plastic insulator around the lug.
If your generating device only has one wire coming form it when it is a
permanent magnet type and the voltage regulator then will be a set of
contacts which are spring loaded and make and break the charging cycles.
Such generators generally are designed to produce DC without the use of a
rectifier bridge..
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Ron,
I am absolutely, totally, and completely befuddled as to how the alternator
works on the Jabiru engine.
When I ask questions, I am told it works just like all other permanent
magnet alternators, but I can find no instructional documentation that will
explain how such alternators are supposed to work. What I seem to get for an
answer to my question is direction as to which wire to hook where. What I
want is instructional material that will tell my how and why it works. It is
very difficult to trouble shot anything which I do not understand.
Can you or anyone else direct me to a source for such education?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:10:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I used the split master on my Jabiru 3300. If I remember correctly I took
the yellow wire from the regulator and ran it to one pole of the "Alt" split
switch. I then jumped the other pole of the "Alt" switch over to on side of
the "Master" switch. Note: If the "Alt" switch is not "ON" with the engine
running, you will NOT get a tachometer reading... Needless to say this
issue caused me a lot of grief, until I realized I was causing my own
problem! I can verify the exact schematic upon request.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Thanks Noel.
We're gaining on it!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Do not Archive
In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:46:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
That=99s where the confusion starts. If it has a permanent magnet it
is
called a generator or a magneto. If this is the case you you can shut off t
he
output by switching the heavy wire that goes from the magneto to the batter
y.
Generators and magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to generate
electrical power so over voltage is not generally a consideration.
Alternators, instead of spinning a large magnet inside a bunch of coils,
spins an electromagnet instead. By varying the voltage hitting the
electromagnet on a wire marked F for field or field coil, the output of the
alternator
can be varied... the more power delivered to the field coil through the F
connector the more current produced by the alternator. The regulator contr
ols
this power output. The idea is two fold... First the current in the fiel
d
coil is relatively small so a small current can control a much larger outpu
t
current so the large contactors that used to be found in early cars and tru
cks
are not needed. If too much current is fed to the F connector the alternat
or
can actually go into overvoltage... This usually turns on a little light a
nd
at the same time chops the power to the field coil so the output of the
alternator drops to 0.
Either way a switch designed to take the maximum current output of the
alternator or generator can be placed in the larger power wire between the
alternator and the battery or main buss depending on how your plane is wire
d.
Alternators all produce alternating current AC which needs to be turned int
o
direct current DC. This is usually done through a little device called a
rectifier bridge. This bridge is constructed by four considerably large
diodes. Some alternators have one or two rectifier bridges built right int
o them.
The reason a shut off switch in the large wire is a good idea is encase you
burn out one or more of the diodes and short out your battery.... Actually
a
circuit breaker is also a good idea.
The F lead, a ground and possibly a voltage sensing lead are generally
connected via a plug in with a specific shape for your alternator..... The
power
output on the alternator is generally a lug with a nut to hold the wire on
the
lug and sometimes a plastic insulator around the lug.
If your generating device only has one wire coming form it when it is a
permanent magnet type and the voltage regulator then will be a set of conta
cts
which are spring loaded and make and break the charging cycles. Such
generators generally are designed to produce DC without the use of a rectif
ier
bridge..
Noel
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
I just googled jabiru Schematic and came up with this: (top of thepage!)
www.us
<http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf>
jabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf
Everything you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides... Check
out page 54 for a circuit diagram. That diagram shows the output to the
battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link. The feed to
the main buss is not switched or protected.... I'd recommend a breaker of
at least the capacity of the alternator. Funny on page 57 they say to hook
up the battery direct... I don't htink they looked at their own schematic
and that's what I'd go by.
According to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes from
pin #5 on the voltage regulator and then feed the output of that switch to
the main buss.
A word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors)
rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on and
off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main buss as an
emergency procedure.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has
done quite well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification
and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of
electronics if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the
regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
On the left side of the schematic on page 54 (?) you see the basic rectifier
bridge. The right hand side has a number of transistors which act as valves
to keep the output of the generator (alternator) consistent. The wire shown
running across the top and down to the master switch is the one that tells
the transistors how much to turn on or off. All that stuff is inside the
regulator and is not adjustable.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Afternoon Craig,
I did read that, but all it says is that if the voltage gets too high, it
cuts off!
No description of how it is supposed to work, how it cuts off and of what
happens to the current flow and operating temperatures when it is cut off.
What I am looking for is an explanation of the theory and the actual
procedures used. I read Bob Nuckolls' explanation and the one so kindly
provided by Ron about outboard motors. The most descriptive thus far has
been the Evinrude material.
I still have not seen anything that tells us how the current and/or voltage
is regulated or controlled. It appears that crude systems just sink it to
ground and generate heat doing so while Evinrude has seemingly found a way
to mitigate the disadvantages of doing that.
Still searching for the "Rest Of The Story"!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 12:27:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:
There is a schematic of the regulator internals in the Jabiru manual.
-- Craig
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Nothing with a turbine would have one! They also use variable displacement
pumps to keep their alternators turning at a constant speed.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Ron,
I graduated from the Aviation Electrician Mate training at Naval Air
Station, Jacksonville, in 1947 (top man in my class by the way) but can
recall no training concerning permanent magnet alternators!
Thanks for the reference. I will get to studying right away.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the
regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
Jabiru 3300
Completed and Flying!~
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Noel,
I note that the one you googled is dated as revision 4. My copy is revision
3 and I see that revision 4 shows all new pages!
I guess I will have to print a whole new manual. I wonder if they really di
d
revise every page or if they just decided to list all of them as new? That's
an awful lot of wasted paper!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
I just googled jabiru Schematic and came up with this: (top of the page!)
_www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf_
(http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf)
Everything you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides...
Check out page 54 for a circuit diagram. That diagram shows the output to
the
battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link. The feed to
the
main buss is not switched or protected.... I=99d recommend a breaker
of at
least the capacity of the alternator. Funny on page 57 they say to hook up
the
battery direct... I don=99t htink they looked at their own schematic
and that=99
s what I=99d go by.
According to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes from
pin #5 on the voltage regulator and then feed the output of that switch to
the
main buss.
A word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors)
rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on and
off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main buss as an
emergency procedure.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B
@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is th
e
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has do
ne quite
well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification a
nd
all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of el
ectronics
if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA"
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is
generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator... Hope it helps
.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
____________________________________
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. _Watch the video on AOL Home_
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom0003000000000
1) .
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Ah yes! The vaunted Vicker's Drive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:27:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
Nothing with a turbine would have one! They also use variable displacement
pumps to keep their alternators turning at a constant speed.
Noel
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
The regulator case itself should be a heat sink. In this case the regulator
actually workd as a transistor controlled voltage divider circuit. The fuse
link protects the battery and as I said I also recommend a switch or better
yet a circuit breaker between pin 5 of the regulator and the main buss.
Output is 20 amp continuous I think I would try a 20A breaker and if you
start blowing it install a load meter and a 30A breaker. Under no
circumstances though load the alternator past 20A continuous duty
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Bob,
You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of
the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from
the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth
during the rectification/regulation process.
It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage
protection is worthwile in case the regulator burns out.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 2:47 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the
controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude has
done quite well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I
went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the
principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification
and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine
points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or
regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good
advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of
electronics if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description
of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the
regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
The problem isn't in shutting down the line to the main buss... Damage to
the regulator can be done when you turn on the alternator to the buss during
heavy loads. If for some reason you want to shut down the output to the
buss in flight you should shed all load on the buss before reconnecting the
regulator output to the buss.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Evening Peter,
Thanks for the information.
Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there
a common method that has been successful?
As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully inadequate.
Are there any good sources of data that I can study?
If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection such
that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged or
is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Bob,
You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of
the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from
the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth
during the rectification/regulation process.
It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage
protection is worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.
Peter H
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Printed and stuck in the manual!
Thanks Noel.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:46:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
The regulator case itself should be a heat sink. In this case the regulator
actually workd as a transistor controlled voltage divider circuit. The fuse
link protects the battery and as I said I also recommend a switch or better
yet a circuit breaker between pin 5 of the regulator and the main buss.
Output is 20 amp continuous I think I would try a 20A breaker and if you start
blowing it install a load meter and a 30A breaker. Under no circumstances
though load the alternator past 20A continuous duty
Noel
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Great! Have look at the list of revised pages which follows the table
of contents. It will give you a list of all the updated and added
pages... Saves wear and tear on the printer, paper and cartridges. You
may have to make notes of the different pages you will need and print
only those pages... The old pages can go in the bottom of the bird
cage.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Evening Noel,
I note that the one you googled is dated as revision 4. My copy is
revision 3 and I see that revision 4 shows all new pages!
I guess I will have to print a whole new manual. I wonder if they really
did revise every page or if they just decided to list all of them as
new? That's an awful lot of wasted paper!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
I just googled jabiru Schematic and came up with this: (top of the
page!)
www.us
<http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf>
jabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf
Everything you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides...
Check out page 54 for a circuit diagram. That diagram shows the output
to the battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link.
The feed to the main buss is not switched or protected.... I=99d
recommend a breaker of at least the capacity of the alternator. Funny
on page 57 they say to hook up the battery direct... I don=99t
htink they looked at their own schematic and that=99s what
I=99d go by.
According to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes
from pin #5 on the voltage regulator and then feed the output of that
switch to the main buss.
A word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors)
rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on
and off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main
buss as an emergency procedure.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Morning Once Again Ron,
That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the
problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is
the controlling device associated with the Jabiru? Sounds like Evinrude
has done quite well!
The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when
I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All
of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave
rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the
voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess
current.
Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist
attitudes. My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.
Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more
information.
Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls
or regulates the output?
Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not
generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to
good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars
worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.
So much to be learned!!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:
I learned electronics many years ago, while in the military. I just
googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a
description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted
to DC via the regulator... Hope it helps.
--------
Ron Asbill
N601ZX - CH-601 XL
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=
aolhom00030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
..matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=
aolhom00030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Hi Bob,
My knowledge is a bit patchy. The best source for good info is aeroelectrics
list found in the Matronics group or you could Google for Bob Nucholls
Aeroelectric Connection. He has a diagram for the crowbar over voltage
protection (OV) which disconnects a runaway alternator if the regulator
should fail. Then the life of the alternator would depend on the mode of
failure. Normally overvoltage goes to earth through the regulator but if the
Reg. went OC and with no OV protection then your main bus will be exposed to
the unregulated alternator output which goes up to 60VAC
There is also another alternative circuit which could be used for OV
protection and which would allow the alternator to remain connected.
Basically this alternative OV circuit is like a supplementary regulator
which starts to work if the supply voltage goes above 15V.
Old Peter (1938 vintage)
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Evening Peter,
Thanks for the information.
Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there
a common method that has been successful?
As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully inadequate.
Are there any good sources of data that I can study?
If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection such
that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged or
is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Bob,
You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of
the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from
the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth
during the rectification/regulation process.
It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage
protection is worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.
Peter H
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Bob if I can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids your
wiring choice.
Some texts refer to the PMA as a dynamo. The Jabiru assembly is similar to most
Japanese and Harley motorcyles- not the old brit bikes that used Lucas -the prince
of darkness- electrics.
Early 3300 used a 3-phase stator, which requires a six diode rectifier stack like
most automotive "alternators" have. In theory, this is much better for the
output filtering because the ripple from a 3 phase is much less than the "on-off"
flow from a single phase winding.
Old motorcycles and Rotax 2 strokes used a shunt regulator to limit the output.
This was in the form of a selenium pile mounted under the headlight for cooling
on the bikes or a triggered diode (SCR) switch module on the rotax. When the
output got above 14 volts the shunt device would load the stator windings and
the current would be limited by the available magnet strength. the Rotax units
had a habbit of failing open circuit leaving 50 volts to burn up whatever I
had connected downstream.
You can choose a linear series regulator, Powermate or B+C LR3 come to mind. The
limitation on these is that they are, much like a carbon pile, in the line and
reduce the current by turning it to heat. The big advantage is the output is
much cleaner. If they fail it will usually be short cct and that is not favourable
to your avionics, so these normally need or incorporate some overvoltage
crowbar.
Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912 use a series switching regulator.
That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the yellow 'sense'
wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage, the bridge rectifier
is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs that are in the
-ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains conducting until the
end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at this time the SCR remains
non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger from the transistors that
sense the voltage.
The advantage of this regulator is that no current is dumped to ground, and as
it is switching on it does not get hot. It is either on or off. the battery has
to absorb the excess of the 'on' pulse which can be a problem if you run without
battery connected or with sense wire disconnected. SCRs usually fail 'open
cct' so there will be no output hence there is little need for other overvolt
protection, so long as the sense wire is ALLWAYS in connection with the output
wire.
If you wish to be able to turn off the PMA, I would suggest switching one of the
AC stator wires. The Jabiru manual is not very clear here, in 3 places it shows
different recommendations. I would follow the text that calls for yellow and
red to be joined and connected direct to battery studs, or via a fuse link
(this is a bolted fuse element or a short crimped thin wire in the engine bay-
you cannot fix a problem of a magnitude that would cause this fuse to blow anyway)
If you wish to use the 'charge fail' lamp facility as depicted in the sample wiring
schematic for J250 aircraft, you will then need to disconnect some of the
regulator from the battery via the master switch. My option would be to use a
double pole master and wire the lamp via the spare pole. This would avoid flat
battery whilst preserving the direct regulator-battery connection. Dont blame
me if you did it another way and have burnt parts!
Regards, Ralph
telecommunications engineering is my day job
part-time avionics and PT6 instrumentation troubleshooter
CH701 with Jabiru 2200a
and yes I have a turbine and it DOES have a PMA. came off an A7
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171885#171885
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Noel Loveys a crit :
>
> Generators and magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to
> generate electrical power so over voltage is not generally a
> consideration.
>
Noel and all,
Whereas I would second you on the self limited *current* capacity of
permanent magnet alternators, I beg to differ on the over *voltage*
issue : a PM alternator cannot prevent from producing voltage when
spinning, and if the regulator fails, voltage may climb as up as 80-100
volts according to model and rpm.
A good battery may temporarily soak the voltage excursion, but those
values are sufficient to damage any avionics if not taken care of on
time. So overvoltage protection is worth some consideration if expensive
avionics is installed.
As mentioned elsewhere, the Aeroelectric website and list provide really
valuable information and circuit architecture suggestions. The
experience an knowledge there are hard to beat.
FWIW
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Noel,
I did look at the list of revised pages and they show ALL pages as having
been revised!
I don't mind the paper so much, but all that ink!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/22/2008 11:07:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
Great! Have look at the list of revised pages which follows the table of
contents. It will give you a list of all the updated and added pages... Saves
wear and tear on the printer, paper and cartridges. You may have to make
notes of the different pages you will need and print only those pages... The
old pages can go in the bottom of the bird cage.
Noel
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Peter,
I have been monitoring the matronics list for several years and 'Lectric Bob
for at least twenty years. I do have several copies of the Connection plus
it's predecessor from the Down By The Riverside Press!.
I even attended one of his seminars a year or so ago.
That is probably why I am so concerned as to how the permanent magnet
alternator can be deactivated so that it will not fry the electronics nor tear
itself apart. I think I do understand the use of a crow bar to save the panel,
but the runaway alternator has me concerned.
I had no idea there was such a thing available as a permanent magnet
alternator. I guess every time it was mentioned, I disregarded and skipped over
it
because I worked only on military and certified aircraft electrical systems.
Never messed with outboards, lawn mowers or snow mobiles.
Thanks for all the help you and others have provided.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/23/2008 2:17:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Hi Bob,
My knowledge is a bit patchy. The best source for good info is aeroelectrics
list found in the Matronics group or you could Google for Bob Nucholls
Aeroelectric Connection. He has a diagram for the crowbar over voltage protection
(OV) which disconnects a runaway alternator if the regulator should fail.
Then the life of the alternator would depend on the mode of failure. Normally
overvoltage goes to earth through the regulator but if the Reg. went OC and
with no OV protection then your main bus will be exposed to the unregulated
alternator output which goes up to 60VAC
There is also another alternative circuit which could be used for OV
protection and which would allow the alternator to remain connected. Basically
this
alternative OV circuit is like a supplementary regulator which starts to work
if the supply voltage goes above 15V.
Old Peter (1938 vintage)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Morning Ralph,
That helps a lot!
My learning curve is still on the way up. Your fine explanation has been
printed and added to the manual.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/23/2008 2:56:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:
Bob if I can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids
your wiring choice.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Thanks Ralph:
It's always good to learn more.
I was under the understanding that the carbon pile actually lowered the
voltage when it came into problems.,, Which were generally crystallization
of the piles.
I can see the switching one of the stator wires but couldn't see the
advantage of that.
Does your turbine produce 400 Hz three phase??
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetboy
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:23 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Bob if I can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids
your wiring choice.
Some texts refer to the PMA as a dynamo. The Jabiru assembly is similar to
most Japanese and Harley motorcyles- not the old brit bikes that used Lucas
-the prince of darkness- electrics.
Early 3300 used a 3-phase stator, which requires a six diode rectifier stack
like most automotive "alternators" have. In theory, this is much better for
the output filtering because the ripple from a 3 phase is much less than the
"on-off" flow from a single phase winding.
Old motorcycles and Rotax 2 strokes used a shunt regulator to limit the
output. This was in the form of a selenium pile mounted under the headlight
for cooling on the bikes or a triggered diode (SCR) switch module on the
rotax. When the output got above 14 volts the shunt device would load the
stator windings and the current would be limited by the available magnet
strength. the Rotax units had a habbit of failing open circuit leaving 50
volts to burn up whatever I had connected downstream.
You can choose a linear series regulator, Powermate or B+C LR3 come to mind.
The limitation on these is that they are, much like a carbon pile, in the
line and reduce the current by turning it to heat. The big advantage is the
output is much cleaner. If they fail it will usually be short cct and that
is not favourable to your avionics, so these normally need or incorporate
some overvoltage crowbar.
Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912 use a series switching
regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the
yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage,
the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs
that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains
conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at
this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger
from the transistors that sense the voltage.
The advantage of this regulator is that no current is dumped to ground, and
as it is switching on it does not get hot. It is either on or off. the
battery has to absorb the excess of the 'on' pulse which can be a problem if
you run without battery connected or with sense wire disconnected. SCRs
usually fail 'open cct' so there will be no output hence there is little
need for other overvolt protection, so long as the sense wire is ALLWAYS in
connection with the output wire.
If you wish to be able to turn off the PMA, I would suggest switching one of
the AC stator wires. The Jabiru manual is not very clear here, in 3 places
it shows different recommendations. I would follow the text that calls for
yellow and red to be joined and connected direct to battery studs, or via a
fuse link (this is a bolted fuse element or a short crimped thin wire in the
engine bay- you cannot fix a problem of a magnitude that would cause this
fuse to blow anyway)
If you wish to use the 'charge fail' lamp facility as depicted in the sample
wiring schematic for J250 aircraft, you will then need to disconnect some of
the regulator from the battery via the master switch. My option would be to
use a double pole master and wire the lamp via the spare pole. This would
avoid flat battery whilst preserving the direct regulator-battery
connection. Dont blame me if you did it another way and have burnt parts!
Regards, Ralph
telecommunications engineering is my day job
part-time avionics and PT6 instrumentation troubleshooter
CH701 with Jabiru 2200a
and yes I have a turbine and it DOES have a PMA. came off an A7
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171885#171885
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Gilles and Ralph,
If the J3300 is fitted with a series switching regulator does this mean that
the alternator AC output is switched on or off the bridge connection and it
would go OC when the battery is fully charged and there is no load dumping
to earth?
Does this mean that the regulator is safe and does not require OV protection
or do we need OV protection for interruption of a heavy DC current on the
busbar side?
Thanks,
Peter H ( I suppose this should be on the aeroelectrics list)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetboy
Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Bob if I can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids
your wiring choice.
Some texts refer to the PMA as a dynamo. The Jabiru assembly is similar to
most Japanese and Harley motorcyles- not the old brit bikes that used Lucas
-the prince of darkness- electrics.
Early 3300 used a 3-phase stator, which requires a six diode rectifier stack
like most automotive "alternators" have. In theory, this is much better for
the output filtering because the ripple from a 3 phase is much less than the
"on-off" flow from a single phase winding.
Old motorcycles and Rotax 2 strokes used a shunt regulator to limit the
output. This was in the form of a selenium pile mounted under the headlight
for cooling on the bikes or a triggered diode (SCR) switch module on the
rotax. When the output got above 14 volts the shunt device would load the
stator windings and the current would be limited by the available magnet
strength. the Rotax units had a habbit of failing open circuit leaving 50
volts to burn up whatever I had connected downstream.
You can choose a linear series regulator, Powermate or B+C LR3 come to mind.
The limitation on these is that they are, much like a carbon pile, in the
line and reduce the current by turning it to heat. The big advantage is the
output is much cleaner. If they fail it will usually be short cct and that
is not favourable to your avionics, so these normally need or incorporate
some overvoltage crowbar.
Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912 use a series switching
regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the
yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage,
the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs
that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains
conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at
this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger
from the transistors that sense the voltage.
The advantage of this regulator is that no current is dumped to ground, and
as it is switching on it does not get hot. It is either on or off. the
battery has to absorb the excess of the 'on' pulse which can be a problem if
you run without battery connected or with sense wire disconnected. SCRs
usually fail 'open cct' so there will be no output hence there is little
need for other overvolt protection, so long as the sense wire is ALLWAYS in
connection with the output wire.
If you wish to be able to turn off the PMA, I would suggest switching one of
the AC stator wires. The Jabiru manual is not very clear here, in 3 places
it shows different recommendations. I would follow the text that calls for
yellow and red to be joined and connected direct to battery studs, or via a
fuse link (this is a bolted fuse element or a short crimped thin wire in the
engine bay- you cannot fix a problem of a magnitude that would cause this
fuse to blow anyway)
If you wish to use the 'charge fail' lamp facility as depicted in the sample
wiring schematic for J250 aircraft, you will then need to disconnect some of
the regulator from the battery via the master switch. My option would be to
use a double pole master and wire the lamp via the spare pole. This would
avoid flat battery whilst preserving the direct regulator-battery
connection. Dont blame me if you did it another way and have burnt parts!
Regards, Ralph
telecommunications engineering is my day job
part-time avionics and PT6 instrumentation troubleshooter
CH701 with Jabiru 2200a
and yes I have a turbine and it DOES have a PMA. came off an A7
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171885#171885
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Noel,
All 110 pages have been revised, the bulletins brought up to date, and we
will be heading to Texas tomorrow to help our Granddaughter install the 3300
Jabiru engine in her Quick Built Legend Cub!
Thanks for all the help from everyone. I have learned a lot about permanent
magnet alternators in the last few days.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Do Not Archive
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/23/2008 6:45:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
To be honest I didn=99t look at the list of revised pages... Happy
printing... I hate the cost of cartridges too.
Noel
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Peter,
Just a bit of information if you will. What is an SCR?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/23/2008 5:39:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912 use a series switching
regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the
yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage,
the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs
that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains
conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at
this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger
from the transistors that sense the voltage.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Peter & Noel
If I wanted to disable the alternator I would switch the AC off rather than the
rectified and regulated DC. 3 reasons: switching the DC does not isolate your
windings from burning up. Switching the DC involves another infirm connection
and much longer path to the battery. The rating of the switch required is lower
and the AC line is prior to the regulator so any voltage drops are not affecting
the output.
The series switching regulator, when up to full voltage on the DC bus, is OC, and
the AC available from the PMA is not consumed. The windings stay cool, and
there is no load on the engine because the magnets are passing a coil that is
not connected anywhere.
If wired in a safe configuration and with a battery or capacitor across the output
it should not need any further OV protection. Interrupting a heavy load off
the DC bus will not cause the regulator do go OV. Anytime the sense wire is
not directly connected to the output, you need another form of protection, because
the voltage control loop is open, and like an automotive alternator, full
output will be made available to all in its path.
Bob's aerolectric Z20 looks to be a safe method, and has the fusible links to isolate
any faulty units from further harm.
Ralph.
PS the turbine with a PMA is a JFS100 APU, the alternator is for 24 volts @ 4 amps
and only uses a rectifier. It gives me no trouble, but the igniter box is
another story.....
Peter H wrote:
> Gilles and Ralph,
> If the J3300 is fitted with a series switching regulator does this mean that
> the alternator AC output is switched on or off the bridge connection and it
> would go OC when the battery is fully charged and there is no load dumping
> to earth?
> Does this mean that the regulator is safe and does not require OV protection
> or do we need OV protection for interruption of a heavy DC current on the
> busbar side?
>
> Thanks,
> Peter H ( I suppose this should be on the aeroelectrics list)
>
>
> --
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172101#172101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Good Evening Ralph,
In the paragraph below, what does OC stand for?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/23/2008 9:41:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:
The series switching regulator, when up to full voltage on the DC bus, is
OC, and the AC available from the PMA is not consumed. The windings stay cool,
and there is no load on the engine because the magnets are passing a coil
that is not connected anywhere.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Bob,
Better to ask Ralph, he raised it.
But it is a type of transistor like a triode it will conduct when the grid
voltage reaches switching level usually set at 14.5V for this application.
So a voltage sensing device triggers the SCR at 14.5V and it conducts excess
current to earth.
"I think"
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, 24 March 2008 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Good Evening Peter,
Just a bit of information if you will. What is an SCR?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 3/23/2008 5:39:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:
Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912 use a series switching
regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the
yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage,
the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs
that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains
conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at
this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger
from the transistors that sense the voltage.
_____
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
In a message dated 03/23/2008 9:41:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:
Anytime the sense wire is not directly connected to the output, you need
another form of protection, because the voltage control loop is open, and like
an
automotive alternator, full output will be made available to all in its path.
Hi Ralph- obviously you have a pretty good handle on this stuff, so could you
please shed some light on one aspect I'm confused on: It is my understanding
that in a PMA when a magnet passes a coil, there is some maximum amount of
current induced in the coil (load-dependant, of course), based on number of
coil windings and power of the magnetic field provided by the magnet. (Not sure
how velocity of the passing magnetic field affects this) This results in a
maximum voltage value for the given magnet/coil/(velocity?) event, and that
voltage would be self-limiting, or incapable of a "runaway", which is not the case
in a typical automotive-type alternator supplied by a "regulated" voltage to
a field winding as mentioned above.
With a PMA regulated by the device shown in the Jabiru manual, when the SCRs
are triggered to charge the system because the reference voltage set point was
reached, wouldn't each charging event (peak sine wave voltage achieved as
magnet passes a coil with SCRs gated on) reach the maximum possible voltage based
on the above situation?
(I understand how a large capacitor between the alternator leads would reduce
the peak-to-peak voltage, I think...)
Appreciate your input on this issue- great discussion!
Mark
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Mark,
A couple of terms - OC means "open circuit" SCR is the abbreviation of "silicon
controlled rectifier" and is a diode that will not conduct until a trigger signal
is applied to the control lead, thereafter it remains conducting unless
the current passing thru is all gone. This occurs when the PMA output voltage
changes to the reverse polarity, as the voltage passes thru zero the SCR unlatches
and remains off until another trigger voltage is applied to the gate.
The generation of voltage by the PMA is limited by the number of turns on the windings,
and I think the velocity of the magnets moving past. the current draw
available would be determined by the rpm and strength of the magnets I expect,
and these conditions will mean it is self limiting. But to get it to operate
satisfactorily at say 2,000 rpm the unit will end up producing more than those
requirements at 3,300 rpm.
There is no need for regulating the maximum current because even shorting the windings
doesnt produce much more. The voltage needs regulating for a large portion
of the running especially at low loadings it will be 3 or 4 times the minimum
requirement.
Your last question is correct - each time the SCRs are triggered in order to let
thru some more charge, the remainder of that half cycle AC is output to the
load. If the load is a capacitor or battery the current is stored as a charge
and the voltage rises slightly. If there is no load connected, other than your
$$$ avionics, then the half cycle pulse results in a substantial voltage peak.
This all happens very quickly but in most cases the internal capacitors will
store it. If the avionics meet DOD-160 they will be immune. We are only talking
of the part of the cycle that is over the 14 volts so the duration of these
pulses will be less than one thousandth of a second. Not every cycle will be
triggered and not every trigger will result in an overvolt spike because there
is no timing control applied to the triggers. It is a relatively robust simple
design for the purpose of charging the battery and running the lights and horn
on your lawn tractor. I have measured the spikes and voltages on my 15 amp
2200a PMA and there is nothing to be concerned with. I use the PC925 26 AH battery
which can accomodate most problems.
The most efficient way to do this would be to fully rectify the PMA and apply the
15 - 85 volts to a switchmode inverter with a steady 13.8 volt output. These
are off the shelf items but as soon as you get a bit of moisture in will probably
fail so would be better off fitting a regular 3 phase alternator/regulator.
- and the OV protection.
Ralph
could you please shed some light on one aspect I'm confused on: It is my understanding
that in a PMA when a magnet passes a coil, there is some maximum amount
of current induced in the coil (load-dependant, of course), based on number
of coil windings and power of the magnetic field provided by the magnet. (Not
sure how velocity of the passing magnetic field affects this) This results
in a maximum voltage value for the given magnet/coil/(velocity?) event, and that
voltage would be self-limiting, or incapable of a "runaway", which is not
the case in a typical automotive-type alternator supplied by a "regulated" voltage
to a field winding as mentioned above.
With a PMA regulated by the device shown in the Jabiru manual, when the SCRs are
triggered to charge the system because the reference voltage set point was
reached, wouldn't each charging event (peak sine wave voltage achieved as magnet
passes a coil with SCRs gated on) reach the maximum possible voltage based
on the above situation?
(I understand how a large capacitor between the alternator leads would reduce
the peak-to-peak voltage, I think...)
Appreciate your input on this issue- great discussion!
Mark
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001).
> [b]
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172134#172134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Ralph:
Turns, Speed, strength of the magnets and I believe proximity of the
magnetic poles to the coils.
Noel
The generation of voltage by the PMA is limited by the number of turns on
the windings, and I think the velocity of the magnets moving past. the
current draw available would be determined by the rpm and strength of the
magnets I expect, and these conditions will mean it is self limiting. But to
get it to operate satisfactorily at say 2,000 rpm the unit will end up
producing more than those requirements at 3,300 rpm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Any one, is there a known conversion for a belt driven or direct
drive
Alternator For the rear of a jabiru 2200 engine? Bob Haas Alpi Pioneer.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Loveys
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
Ralph:
Turns, Speed, strength of the magnets and I believe proximity of the
magnetic poles to the coils.
Noel
The generation of voltage by the PMA is limited by the number of turns on
the windings, and I think the velocity of the magnets moving past. the
current draw available would be determined by the rpm and strength of the
magnets I expect, and these conditions will mean it is self limiting. But to
get it to operate satisfactorily at say 2,000 rpm the unit will end up
producing more than those requirements at 3,300 rpm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Ralph-
Good stuff- nice SCR description. I used these puppies for 25+years welding
car bodies for GM, but still unqualified to understand overvoltage conditions
in PMAs. Referring to page 54 of January '08 version of Jabiru document
3300HL-IM JEM3304-4.pdf:
_http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf_
(http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf)
which (somewhat miserably!) shows the regulator/rectifier circuit, it would
seem the regulator is only offered one-half of the phase generated by the PMA,
unless the SCRs provide the other half-cylce in some way I misunderstand.
I've stared at this drawing for some time and have been unable to devine its
secrets. If you could please take some time to decipher its function, I (we?)
would be greatly indebted!
For the sake of this discussion, let's call the transistors T1-T4, left to
right. In my estimation, T1 is voltage reference controlling T4 based on zener
value, which in turn controls T3 that gates the SCRs. T2 turns on the charge
lamp, which seems to illuminate lamp when circuit is charging, as opposed to
when it is not(?!). Perhaps you can unravel this Gordian knot for this lesser
electron herder.
You also mention 15-85 volts available from the PMA- original concern was
regarding overvoltage. Are you saying that there is a potential (no pun
intended!) for as much as 85 volts to the system which would normally be absorbed
by
the battery, and that battery disconnect with alternator running might develop
into a "bad day"?
Thanks again for your input!
Mark
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Mark,
That regulator cct diagram really is difficult to follow with the transistors drawn
upside down etc. but after studying it for a few years I decided it should
work. Both the sense transistors and the ouput do get full wave rectifiers -
its just that 2 diodes of the bridge are used for both functions and each of
the SCRs forming the remainder of the bridge just supply the output -ve return.
I have not tried fitting the 'charge' lamp and in my plane it would give me
flat battery anyway.
The 85 Volts or so is allways available from the PMA if unloaded however with this
type of regulator its not likely to ever get thru to the output unless the
sense wire has become disassociated with the output. it would not be as violent
as an automotive field controlled alternator going full on however now that
all engines are fitted with the 20 amp 6 pole stator the battery may not contain
the excess for long.
Best practice is to cut off the regulator connector and crimp splice or solder
the PMA wires. This is now covered in the manuals or bulletins somewhere due to
wiring fires. Then crimp the red & yellow together and via fusible wire link
to battery. Crimp black wire to a ground lug and also to -ve wire to battery
-ve lug.
Otherwise use wiring diagram Z20
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172464#172464
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetboy
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:17 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
I have not tried fitting the 'charge' lamp and in my plane it would give me
flat battery anyway.
That's the reason they have the master switch on the battery lead. What I
don't like is there is no way to disconnect the feed from the regulator to
the main buss. I think I'd like to have one in case of a problem with the
rectifier/regulator.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DanM" <danm(at)gangnailtruss.com> |
I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine, Kitfox IV, in about
two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is necessary prior to the start. Anybody
out there have information or documents on this procedure?
thanks
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow test |
A flow test isn't necessary before first start, though fuel to the engine is
mandatory! :-)
To do a fuel flow test, position the airplane in max climb attitude, usually
somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-22 deg. nose high. Test fuel flow at the
carb inlet. It should be 150% of the wide open throttle (WOT) requirements
of the engine.
The 3300 is WOT flow is about 10 GPH, so we want fuel flow of about 16 GPH
to be safe. Not sure about the 2200's WOT consumption rate.
Ron
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:19 AM, DanM wrote:
>
> I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine, Kitfox IV,
> in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is necessary prior to the
> start. Anybody out there have information or documents on this procedure?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow test |
I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
>
> I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> or documents on this procedure?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed D'Antoni" <avidaerobat(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow test |
The Fuel flow test is detailed in Tony Bingelis' book Fire Wall Forward (Page 175).
A simplified version is described in EAA Experimenter, 2003 May edition.
It is probably also somewhere in FAA's Acceptable Methods --- AC43.13. Part
of the documentation for registration includes self certification that you have
carried out a fuel flow test.
Ed
Lynn Matteson wrote:
I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
>
> I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> or documents on this procedure?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
>
>
---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed D'Antoni" <avidaerobat(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow test |
Here is the exact wording from the FAA's Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight
Flight testing handbook which you can download at:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/ac90-89a.pdf
e. Fuel Flow and Unusable Fuel Check: This
is a field test to ensure the aircraft engine will get
enough fuel to run properly, even if the aircraft is
in a steep climb or stall attitude.
(1) First, place the aircrafts nose at an
angle 5 degrees above the highest anticipated climb
angle. The easiest and safest way to do this with
a conventional gear aircraft is to dig a hole and place
the aircrafts tail in it. For a nose gear aircraft, build
a ramp to raise the nose gear to the proper angle.
(2) Make sure the aircraft is tied-down and
chocked. With minimum fuel in the tanks, disconnect
the fuel line to carburetor. The fuel flow with a gravity
flow system should be 150 percent of the fuel
consumption of the engine at full throttle. With a
fuel system that is pressurized, the fuel flow should
be at least 125 percent. When the fuel stops flowing,
the remaining fuel is the unusable fuel quantity.
(3) Since the fuel consumption of most
modern engines is approximately .55 pounds per
brake horsepower per hour for a 100 horsepower
engine, the test fuel flow should be 82.5 pounds (13.7
gallons) per hour for gravity feed, or 68.75 pounds
(11.5 gallons) per hour for a pressurized system. The
pounds per hour divided by 60 equals 1.4 pounds
and 1.15 pounds per minute fuel rate respectively.
NOTE: Formula for fuel flow rate gravity
feed is .55 x engine horsepower x 1.50
pounds of fuel per hour divided by 60 to
get pounds per minute, divided by 6 to get
gallons per minute. For a pressurized system,
substitute 1.25 for 1.50 to determine
fuel flow rate.
f. Changing Fuel Flow or Pressure: If the
aircrafts fuel flow rate is less than planned, there
is a volume or pressure problem. An increase in the
fuel flow volume may necessitate installation of
larger fuel line fittings on the fuel tanks, fuel selector,
and carburetor in addition to larger internal diameter
fuel lines. To increase fuel pressure, install an electrically
driven or engine driven mechanical fuel
pump prior to the first flight.
Lynn Matteson wrote:
I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
>
> I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> or documents on this procedure?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch |
Ralph-
Thanks for the description- with your help, I think I have it sorted out!
Appreciate the assist-
Mark
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow test |
| From: | "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> |
Dan,
There is a PDF document on how to do this at this website. http://www.xairireland.com/ go to XAir - Hawk - Downloads and you'll find a fuel flow document for the 2200.
I'm currently building one of these with a 2200a on the front - but I haven't got
as far as you yet.
Good luck.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172726#172726
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <botton(at)capital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/25/08 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "JabiruEngine-List Digest Server" <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:57 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/25/08
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-03-25&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-03-25&Archive=JabiruEngine
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/25/08: 8
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 02:49 AM - Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch (jetboy)
> 2. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch (Noel
Loveys)
> 3. 11:23 AM - Fuel flow test (DanM)
> 4. 11:54 AM - Re: Fuel flow test (Ron Shannon)
> 5. 12:35 PM - Re: Fuel flow test (Lynn Matteson)
> 6. 02:38 PM - Re: Fuel flow test (Ed D'Antoni)
> 7. 03:37 PM - Re: Fuel flow test (Ed D'Antoni)
> 8. 09:49 PM - Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
(Fiveonepw(at)aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
> From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> That regulator cct diagram really is difficult to follow with the
transistors drawn
> upside down etc. but after studying it for a few years I decided it should
> work. Both the sense transistors and the ouput do get full wave
rectifiers -
> its just that 2 diodes of the bridge are used for both functions and each
of
> the SCRs forming the remainder of the bridge just supply the output -ve
return.
> I have not tried fitting the 'charge' lamp and in my plane it would give
me
> flat battery anyway.
>
> The 85 Volts or so is allways available from the PMA if unloaded however
with this
> type of regulator its not likely to ever get thru to the output unless the
> sense wire has become disassociated with the output. it would not be as
violent
> as an automotive field controlled alternator going full on however now
that
> all engines are fitted with the 20 amp 6 pole stator the battery may not
contain
> the excess for long.
>
> Best practice is to cut off the regulator connector and crimp splice or
solder
> the PMA wires. This is now covered in the manuals or bulletins somewhere
due to
> wiring fires. Then crimp the red & yellow together and via fusible wire
link
> to battery. Crimp black wire to a ground lug and also to -ve wire to
battery
> -ve lug.
>
> Otherwise use wiring diagram Z20
>
> Ralph
>
> --------
> Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172464#172464
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jetboy
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:17 AM
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
>
>
> I have not tried fitting the 'charge' lamp and in my plane it would give
me
> flat battery anyway.
>
>
> That's the reason they have the master switch on the battery lead. What I
> don't like is there is no way to disconnect the feed from the regulator to
> the main buss. I think I'd like to have one in case of a problem with the
> rectifier/regulator.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel flow test
> From: "DanM" <danm(at)gangnailtruss.com>
>
>
> I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine, Kitfox IV,
in about
> two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is necessary prior to the start.
Anybody
> out there have information or documents on this procedure?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel flow test
>
> A flow test isn't necessary before first start, though fuel to the engine
is
> mandatory! :-)
>
> To do a fuel flow test, position the airplane in max climb attitude,
usually
> somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-22 deg. nose high. Test fuel flow at
the
> carb inlet. It should be 150% of the wide open throttle (WOT) requirements
> of the engine.
>
> The 3300 is WOT flow is about 10 GPH, so we want fuel flow of about 16 GPH
> to be safe. Not sure about the 2200's WOT consumption rate.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:19 AM, DanM wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine, Kitfox IV,
> > in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is necessary prior to the
> > start. Anybody out there have information or documents on this
procedure?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --------
> > Dan Mc Intyre
> > Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel flow test
>
>
> I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
> think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
> method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
> shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
> use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
>
> Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
> 150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
> plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
> and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> > Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> > necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> > or documents on this procedure?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --------
> > Dan Mc Intyre
> > Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Ed D'Antoni" <avidaerobat(at)yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel flow test
>
> The Fuel flow test is detailed in Tony Bingelis' book Fire Wall Forward
(Page 175).
> A simplified version is described in EAA Experimenter, 2003 May edition.
> It is probably also somewhere in FAA's Acceptable Methods --- AC43.13.
Part
> of the documentation for registration includes self certification that you
have
> carried out a fuel flow test.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>
> I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
> think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
> method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
> shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
> use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
>
> Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
> 150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
> plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
> and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> > Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> > necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> > or documents on this procedure?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --------
> > Dan Mc Intyre
> > Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo!
Answers.
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Ed D'Antoni" <avidaerobat(at)yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel flow test
>
> Here is the exact wording from the FAA's Amateur-Built Aircraft and
Ultralight
> Flight testing handbook which you can download at:
>
>
> http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/ac90-89a.pdf
>
> e. Fuel Flow and Unusable Fuel Check: This
> is a field test to ensure the aircraft engine will get
> enough fuel to run properly, even if the aircraft is
> in a steep climb or stall attitude.
> (1) First, place the aircrafts nose at an
> angle 5 degrees above the highest anticipated climb
> angle. The easiest and safest way to do this with
> a conventional gear aircraft is to dig a hole and place
> the aircrafts tail in it. For a nose gear aircraft, build
> a ramp to raise the nose gear to the proper angle.
> (2) Make sure the aircraft is tied-down and
> chocked. With minimum fuel in the tanks, disconnect
> the fuel line to carburetor. The fuel flow with a gravity
> flow system should be 150 percent of the fuel
> consumption of the engine at full throttle. With a
> fuel system that is pressurized, the fuel flow should
> be at least 125 percent. When the fuel stops flowing,
> the remaining fuel is the unusable fuel quantity.
> (3) Since the fuel consumption of most
> modern engines is approximately .55 pounds per
> brake horsepower per hour for a 100 horsepower
> engine, the test fuel flow should be 82.5 pounds (13.7
> gallons) per hour for gravity feed, or 68.75 pounds
> (11.5 gallons) per hour for a pressurized system. The
> pounds per hour divided by 60 equals 1.4 pounds
> and 1.15 pounds per minute fuel rate respectively.
> NOTE: Formula for fuel flow rate gravity
> feed is .55 x engine horsepower x 1.50
> pounds of fuel per hour divided by 60 to
> get pounds per minute, divided by 6 to get
> gallons per minute. For a pressurized system,
> substitute 1.25 for 1.50 to determine
> fuel flow rate.
> f. Changing Fuel Flow or Pressure: If the
> aircrafts fuel flow rate is less than planned, there
> is a volume or pressure problem. An increase in the
> fuel flow volume may necessitate installation of
> larger fuel line fittings on the fuel tanks, fuel selector,
> and carburetor in addition to larger internal diameter
> fuel lines. To increase fuel pressure, install an electrically
> driven or engine driven mechanical fuel
> pump prior to the first flight.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>
> I attended a forum given by Jack Dueck at Oshkosh in Summer of '05. I
> think he works for the EAA at Oshkosh. I got a handout describing the
> method. Maybe there's something online through EAA. I'd give them a
> shout/email and see. I also think that Jabiru has a method that they
> use, at least I read that somewhere. I'd give Pete, Andy or Jim a call.
>
> Basically what you're doing is seeing if the fuel system will flow
> 150% of what the engine will require in a gravity-flow, high-wing
> plane. The handout that I have talks in terms of weight of the fuel,
> and has a graph that converts horsepower to lbs of fuel per hour.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2008, at 2:19 PM, DanM wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm going to try and do the initial start of my 2200a engine,
> > Kitfox IV, in about two weeks, I think a fuel flow test is
> > necessary prior to the start. Anybody out there have information
> > or documents on this procedure?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --------
> > Dan Mc Intyre
> > Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172578#172578
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
>
> Ralph-
>
> Thanks for the description- with your help, I think I have it sorted out!
>
> Appreciate the assist-
> Mark
>
>
> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
> Home.
>
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup! |
Dear Listers,
I've added two new Email Lists to the Matronics List and Forum lineup today. These
include the Rans-List and RV12-List. Please surf over to the Matronics List
Subscription page and sign up for these new Lists if they are of interest
to you:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Full support on the Forums, List Browse, Archives, etc. is available.
Rans-List:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rans-List
RV12-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV12-List
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Question? |
| From: | "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com> |
Dear Jabiru Engine Wonks,
I have a question about fuel pressure and fuel flow. I currently own and fly a
Zenith CH601XL equipped with a Jab 3300, I have about 192 hours on AF/PP. I
am fortunate in flying with a fully TSO'd Xerion Auracle Engine monitor/analyzer.
My two last flights I have noted some peculiarities with fuel pressure and
fuel flow while flying.
My engine analyzer at altitude sends up a warning message that fuel pressure is
low/lowering and while all seems to be running right I noticed that my fuel
flow numbers were going up? When I turn on my Facet boost pump the fuel pressure
would go back into the normal green values and the fuel flow returns back
to a respectable number.
Furthermore, while flying on the way home my engine analyzer started this curious
behavior again. While slowly descending into my home airport I reduced power
and watched everything come into sync. What got my attention next was that
I felt the engine sort of "burp" or skip a bit. I pulled carb. heat and turned
on the boost pump to cover my rear end. It was enough of a "burp" for me to
take notice.
So with that information in hand, what does this mean? You would think that low
fuel pressure would = lowering fuel flow right? Conversely, the opposite should
apply ... Does anyone here know what I'm dealing with other than that she's
running beautifully.
Thank you for you time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP KSDC Williamson-Sodus
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Newbie Question |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Tim, you will need to disconnect both wires if you want to isolate the regulator
due to some fault, simply because you wont know which wire is carrying / causing
the fault. The yellow wire should be bonded to the red wire at the regulator,
and the extended lead can go via a fuse, fuse link or cct breaker to the
batt +ve. This is the safest option and the recommended wiring method as written
in the current Jabiru installation manual. I think Bob's Z20? is the most
recent diagram -equally safe and with more protective measures and features.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175117#175117
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Question? |
Jeffry
I have spent some time investigating the fuel flow of my J3300 and found as
follows:
The needle valve seat provided by Jabiru is 2.25mm and is meant for gravity
feed. It leaks from about 2700 rpm causing the fuel bowl to get above design
level and the engine to run rich . Excessive rich running causes decreased
power and rough running very noticeable if it occurs in flight.
The correct needle seat for a fuel pump fed installation is 1.5mm and I
fitted one of these. It ran too lean at WOT but when I started the boost
pump it also leaked and I saw 36LPH on my Navman fuel flow meter.
I have discussed this issue with the Jab engine shop and understand that the
setup is tuned for the typical Jabiru installation and that needles and jets
were chosen to provide best cruise mix at about 2750 and excessive rich mix
at higher RPM and at WOT as a measure to ensure the valves are kept cool.
It may possibly be that you are experiencing patchy over rich running.
Peter H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 7:19 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure Question?
Dear Jabiru Engine Wonks,
I have a question about fuel pressure and fuel flow. I currently own and
fly a Zenith CH601XL equipped with a Jab 3300, I have about 192 hours on
AF/PP. I am fortunate in flying with a fully TSO'd Xerion Auracle Engine
monitor/analyzer. My two last flights I have noted some peculiarities with
fuel pressure and fuel flow while flying.
My engine analyzer at altitude sends up a warning message that fuel
pressure is low/lowering and while all seems to be running right I noticed
that my fuel flow numbers were going up? When I turn on my Facet boost pump
the fuel pressure would go back into the normal green values and the fuel
flow returns back to a respectable number.
Furthermore, while flying on the way home my engine analyzer started this
curious behavior again. While slowly descending into my home airport I
reduced power and watched everything come into sync. What got my attention
next was that I felt the engine sort of "burp" or skip a bit. I pulled
carb. heat and turned on the boost pump to cover my rear end. It was enough
of a "burp" for me to take notice.
So with that information in hand, what does this mean? You would think that
low fuel pressure would = lowering fuel flow right? Conversely, the
opposite should apply ... Does anyone here know what I'm dealing with other
than that she's running beautifully.
Thank you for you time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP KSDC Williamson-Sodus
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Question? |
Where is your fuel pressure sender? Between the mechanical pump and the
engine? If so think of it this way: with a pump working against a dead-end
pipe you would have the maximum pressure and no flow. As soon as you allow
fuel to flow the pressure will drop and the flow rise.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:19 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure Question?
Dear Jabiru Engine Wonks,
I have a question about fuel pressure and fuel flow. I currently own and
fly a Zenith CH601XL equipped with a Jab 3300, I have about 192 hours on
AF/PP. I am fortunate in flying with a fully TSO'd Xerion Auracle Engine
monitor/analyzer. My two last flights I have noted some peculiarities with
fuel pressure and fuel flow while flying.
My engine analyzer at altitude sends up a warning message that fuel
pressure is low/lowering and while all seems to be running right I noticed
that my fuel flow numbers were going up? When I turn on my Facet boost pump
the fuel pressure would go back into the normal green values and the fuel
flow returns back to a respectable number.
Furthermore, while flying on the way home my engine analyzer started this
curious behavior again. While slowly descending into my home airport I
reduced power and watched everything come into sync. What got my attention
next was that I felt the engine sort of "burp" or skip a bit. I pulled
carb. heat and turned on the boost pump to cover my rear end. It was enough
of a "burp" for me to take notice.
So with that information in hand, what does this mean? You would think that
low fuel pressure would = lowering fuel flow right? Conversely, the
opposite should apply ... Does anyone here know what I'm dealing with other
than that she's running beautifully.
Thank you for you time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP KSDC Williamson-Sodus
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lancaster Aero Ltd <info(at)jabirucanada.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Question? |
Dear Sir:
I'm sorry but the two people that could help you, are in Florida at
the Sun & Fun air show. They should be back on April 15. Stan or
Gord will email you as soon as possible.
Yvonne
>
>
>
>Dear Jabiru Engine Wonks,
>
>I have a question about fuel pressure and fuel flow. I currently
>own and fly a Zenith CH601XL equipped with a Jab 3300, I have about
>192 hours on AF/PP. I am fortunate in flying with a fully TSO'd
>Xerion Auracle Engine monitor/analyzer. My two last flights I have
>noted some peculiarities with fuel pressure and fuel flow while flying.
>
> My engine analyzer at altitude sends up a warning message that
> fuel pressure is low/lowering and while all seems to be running
> right I noticed that my fuel flow numbers were going up? When I
> turn on my Facet boost pump the fuel pressure would go back into
> the normal green values and the fuel flow returns back to a respectable number.
>
>Furthermore, while flying on the way home my engine analyzer
>started this curious behavior again. While slowly descending into my
>home airport I reduced power and watched everything come into
>sync. What got my attention next was that I felt the engine sort of
>"burp" or skip a bit. I pulled carb. heat and turned on the boost
>pump to cover my rear end. It was enough of a "burp" for me to take notice.
>
>So with that information in hand, what does this mean? You would
>think that low fuel pressure would = lowering fuel flow
>right? Conversely, the opposite should apply ... Does anyone here
>know what I'm dealing with other than that she's running beautifully.
>
>Thank you for you time and consideration.
>
>Jeff Paris
>N196ZP KSDC Williamson-Sodus
>CH601XL Jabiru 3300
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
>The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
>--
>Checked by AVG.
>4/5/2008 7:53 AM
Lancaster Aero Ltd.
PO Box 56
Bainsville, ON K0C 1E0
Tel: (613) 347-3155
Fax:(613) 347-3074
Email: info(at)jabirucanada.com
www.jabirucanada.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ElleryWeld(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 2200 engine running question |
I just started test flying an X-Air with a 2200 engine the engine starts
great idles super but when I really give it a lot of throttle and put the plane
in a steep climb it hitches on regular intervals for a while then it will
run fine until I start climbing steep or make a steep turn what should I look
for to cure this problem ?
as long as I don't jab the throttle or make aggressive maneuvers it runs
great
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RONAL SMITH" <ronal22(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Jabiru Engine-List: 2200 engine running question |
Ellery,
You should contact Dave Jalanti dave(at)jabirups.com for some possible
answers. He is the technical rep for Jabiru in your area. He lives in
NY. His no. is 518-851-2095 in the evenings. It sounds like a fuel
delivery problem to me, and Dave would be the one to ask.
Good luck, Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | =?us-ascii?Q?News:_Australian_Stimulus_Package-Jabiru_Engines_On_Sale? |
I found this at:
http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/2008/04/news-australian-stimulus-packagejab
iru.html
Friday, April 4, 2008
News: Australian Stimulus Package-Jabiru Engines On Sale
As the car ads say, "for a limited time only..." Jabiru's U.S. importers
have announced that the 2200 and 3300 engines are being offered at reduced
prices from now until April 15. Jabiru in Australia had ramped up production
and appears to have slightly over corrected, so to move some metal, prices
were dropped $2000 on the 120-hp 3300 (from $18,400 to $16,400) and $1000 on
the 85-hp 2200 ($13,900 to $12,900).
According to Jabiru Pacific's Jim McCormick, "We have engines on the way,
arriving in the U.S. by the end of June or early July."
The four- and six-cylinder air-cooled Jabiru engines are available through
Jabiru USA in Shelbyville, Tennessee, or Jabiru Pacific in Fresno,
California. Prices are the same from both sources.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
Andy-
Being another windy, gusty day, I decided to look into making the
ring and the guide vanes. (I have "before" temps that will suffice,
but really wanted to get current figures) Much to my surprise, when
I got the carb and rubber sleeve off, I saw that there was a ridge of
rubber between the carb side and the engine side. Maybe the rubber
sleeve manufacturer foresaw this gap as being a potential problem,
and decided to fill it. It is still not a perfect world, as the
rubber ridge is about .018" (about 1/2 mm) smaller in diameter than
the carb bore. That means it is about .009" lower all around than the
carb bore...no big deal, in my estimation. On the other side of the
ridge, though, the (I'll call it) adapter snout...the part that is
held onto the splitter housing/intake manifold with 4 bolts, is about
0.112" smaller than the ridge diameter, or 0.056" all around. This is
where I will concentrate my efforts. I'll chuck up this piece, bore
it to the carb diameter, and smooth and blend in this area. There is
plenty of meat in this piece and I don't feel I will get anywhere
near the groove in my efforts.
The other problem that I see is that the two components don't come
close enough together to touch the ridge on either side. The
impression of the two parts,the carb and adapter piece, in the rubber
look like they miss contacting the ridge by maybe 0.020"-0.030". So
there is that little area that could cause some turbulence, but not
as much as it would be if the ridge weren't there and a large gap
existed. I don't know if all the rubber sleeves are created equal, or
whether some were built without the ridge, or if I could find a
similar sleeve if/when I need one. I'll cross that bridge when I come
to it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 15, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
> Lynn, Sounds like a good plan! I know others have tried without
> much success
> with guide vanes upstream of the carb, so don't be too disappointed
> if you
> can't get much from it. The theory is good, however! I don't know
> about the
> successes gained by the poster on the Sonextalk forum; I'm not a
> member and
> I didn't fancy joining just for one message. As you say, one thing
> at a time
> and measure as much as you can, analysing afterwards on the ground.
>
> Cheers, Andy
>
> From: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: 15 April 2008 16:50
> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
>
> Thanks, Andy. I was going to go up today and get some really good
> readings before I tore into the carb removal, ring building thing,
> but it was just too windy and gusty to get readings that would supply
> me with the "before" EGT's. Once I can get those, I'll go after the
> "gold ring." : ) I may even try some air-straightening vanes inside
> the tube just prior to the carb, but I want to do one thing at a time
> in order to know what did what.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn,
OK, I'm a bit surprised by the existence of that 'ridge' as the ones I
inspected a while ago just had the two rounded ridges that locate in the
grooves in the carb body and the intake side adapter. In between there was a
gap, which I am suggesting filling. I guess the supplier changed the pattern
slightly. Also, it's really not the AIR we're interested in keeping out of
those spaces or grooves, it's FUEL. Remember, at around 12:1 - 14:1 air/fuel
ratio, it doesn't take much extra fuel to upset the ration big-time. As fuel
gets into that groove we think it swirls around due to air turbulence and
then exits back into the airstream in an uncontrolled way, meaning that
'splashes' of fuel are re-introduced downstream of the carb. These splashes
may-well form a liquid stream at some rpms and go down either the left or
right side of the splitter, causing the mixture imbalance. The idea of the
ring is to make as smooth a bore as possible right into the splitter from
the carburettor, so the mixture of fuel and air has a better chance of going
50/50 past the splitter. Any left/right EGT (mixture) differences would then
be due to turbulence or twisting of the air through the carb, and this could
be improved by the guide vanes. I recommend doing whatever's needed to
smooth-out the bore of the carb/coupler/adapter combination first, then
tackle any turbulence separately before the carb in the intake system. In
practice and if you have the right tool rake and cutting speed, you might
use a boring tool to remove the existing ridge inside the coupler, then you
have more space to fit a gap-ring. As always, more than one way to
accomplish the job but the result should be the same.
Hope this helps
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 16 April 2008 12:48
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
Andy-
Being another windy, gusty day, I decided to look into making the
ring and the guide vanes. (I have "before" temps that will suffice,
but really wanted to get current figures) Much to my surprise, when
I got the carb and rubber sleeve off, I saw that there was a ridge of
rubber between the carb side and the engine side. Maybe the rubber
sleeve manufacturer foresaw this gap as being a potential problem,
and decided to fill it. It is still not a perfect world, as the
rubber ridge is about .018" (about 1/2 mm) smaller in diameter than
the carb bore. That means it is about .009" lower all around than the
carb bore...no big deal, in my estimation. On the other side of the
ridge, though, the (I'll call it) adapter snout...the part that is
held onto the splitter housing/intake manifold with 4 bolts, is about
0.112" smaller than the ridge diameter, or 0.056" all around. This is
where I will concentrate my efforts. I'll chuck up this piece, bore
it to the carb diameter, and smooth and blend in this area. There is
plenty of meat in this piece and I don't feel I will get anywhere
near the groove in my efforts.
The other problem that I see is that the two components don't come
close enough together to touch the ridge on either side. The
impression of the two parts,the carb and adapter piece, in the rubber
look like they miss contacting the ridge by maybe 0.020"-0.030". So
there is that little area that could cause some turbulence, but not
as much as it would be if the ridge weren't there and a large gap
existed. I don't know if all the rubber sleeves are created equal, or
whether some were built without the ridge, or if I could find a
similar sleeve if/when I need one. I'll cross that bridge when I come
to it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 15, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
> Lynn, Sounds like a good plan! I know others have tried without
> much success
> with guide vanes upstream of the carb, so don't be too disappointed
> if you
> can't get much from it. The theory is good, however! I don't know
> about the
> successes gained by the poster on the Sonextalk forum; I'm not a
> member and
> I didn't fancy joining just for one message. As you say, one thing
> at a time
> and measure as much as you can, analysing afterwards on the ground.
>
> Cheers, Andy
>
> From: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: 15 April 2008 16:50
> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
>
> Thanks, Andy. I was going to go up today and get some really good
> readings before I tore into the carb removal, ring building thing,
> but it was just too windy and gusty to get readings that would supply
> me with the "before" EGT's. Once I can get those, I'll go after the
> "gold ring." : ) I may even try some air-straightening vanes inside
> the tube just prior to the carb, but I want to do one thing at a time
> in order to know what did what.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
I just got done boring out the adapter to the same diameter as the
ridge in the coupler....about 1.672"...and blended the various
machining operation marks out with a rubberized abrasive polishing
"stone." Now the carb, coupler and adapter are fairly smooth in
transition, all being about the same diameter, give or take a few
thousandths.
Next on the agenda is making the vanes. The pictures I've seen of the
vanes show them as being short, but I'd really like to make mine
follow the curve of the entire 6" long (measured right down the
middle), 90 fiberglas tube that I made. In order to do it right, I
might have to cut it in half...again...and insert the vanes, then
'glass it back together again.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 16, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> OK, I'm a bit surprised by the existence of that 'ridge' as the ones I
> inspected a while ago just had the two rounded ridges that locate
> in the
> grooves in the carb body and the intake side adapter. In between
> there was a
> gap, which I am suggesting filling. I guess the supplier changed
> the pattern
> slightly. Also, it's really not the AIR we're interested in keeping
> out of
> those spaces or grooves, it's FUEL. Remember, at around 12:1 - 14:1
> air/fuel
> ratio, it doesn't take much extra fuel to upset the ration big-
> time. As fuel
> gets into that groove we think it swirls around due to air
> turbulence and
> then exits back into the airstream in an uncontrolled way, meaning
> that
> 'splashes' of fuel are re-introduced downstream of the carb. These
> splashes
> may-well form a liquid stream at some rpms and go down either the
> left or
> right side of the splitter, causing the mixture imbalance. The idea
> of the
> ring is to make as smooth a bore as possible right into the
> splitter from
> the carburettor, so the mixture of fuel and air has a better chance
> of going
> 50/50 past the splitter. Any left/right EGT (mixture) differences
> would then
> be due to turbulence or twisting of the air through the carb, and
> this could
> be improved by the guide vanes. I recommend doing whatever's needed to
> smooth-out the bore of the carb/coupler/adapter combination first,
> then
> tackle any turbulence separately before the carb in the intake
> system. In
> practice and if you have the right tool rake and cutting speed, you
> might
> use a boring tool to remove the existing ridge inside the coupler,
> then you
> have more space to fit a gap-ring. As always, more than one way to
> accomplish the job but the result should be the same.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 16 April 2008 12:48
> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com; jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
>
>
>
> Andy-
> Being another windy, gusty day, I decided to look into making the
> ring and the guide vanes. (I have "before" temps that will suffice,
> but really wanted to get current figures) Much to my surprise, when
> I got the carb and rubber sleeve off, I saw that there was a ridge of
> rubber between the carb side and the engine side. Maybe the rubber
> sleeve manufacturer foresaw this gap as being a potential problem,
> and decided to fill it. It is still not a perfect world, as the
> rubber ridge is about .018" (about 1/2 mm) smaller in diameter than
> the carb bore. That means it is about .009" lower all around than the
> carb bore...no big deal, in my estimation. On the other side of the
> ridge, though, the (I'll call it) adapter snout...the part that is
> held onto the splitter housing/intake manifold with 4 bolts, is about
> 0.112" smaller than the ridge diameter, or 0.056" all around. This is
> where I will concentrate my efforts. I'll chuck up this piece, bore
> it to the carb diameter, and smooth and blend in this area. There is
> plenty of meat in this piece and I don't feel I will get anywhere
> near the groove in my efforts.
>
> The other problem that I see is that the two components don't come
> close enough together to touch the ridge on either side. The
> impression of the two parts,the carb and adapter piece, in the rubber
> look like they miss contacting the ridge by maybe 0.020"-0.030". So
> there is that little area that could cause some turbulence, but not
> as much as it would be if the ridge weren't there and a large gap
> existed. I don't know if all the rubber sleeves are created equal, or
> whether some were built without the ridge, or if I could find a
> similar sleeve if/when I need one. I'll cross that bridge when I come
> to it.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>> Lynn, Sounds like a good plan! I know others have tried without
>> much success
>> with guide vanes upstream of the carb, so don't be too disappointed
>> if you
>> can't get much from it. The theory is good, however! I don't know
>> about the
>> successes gained by the poster on the Sonextalk forum; I'm not a
>> member and
>> I didn't fancy joining just for one message. As you say, one thing
>> at a time
>> and measure as much as you can, analysing afterwards on the ground.
>>
>> Cheers, Andy
>>
>> From: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com]
>> On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
>> Sent: 15 April 2008 16:50
>> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
>>
>> Thanks, Andy. I was going to go up today and get some really good
>> readings before I tore into the carb removal, ring building thing,
>> but it was just too windy and gusty to get readings that would supply
>> me with the "before" EGT's. Once I can get those, I'll go after the
>> "gold ring." : ) I may even try some air-straightening vanes inside
>> the tube just prior to the carb, but I want to do one thing at a time
>> in order to know what did what.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Grass Lake, Michigan
>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>> flying w/490+ hrs
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
Here's a picture of my coupler, Andy and interested others, with the
parting line of the mold running right around the middle of the
ridge. You should be able to see the two "bumps", one on either side
that locate the adapter and the carb. As this is my used coupler, you
might also see a slight dimple between the ridge and the bump....this
is where the carb or the adapter didn't come all the way into contact
with the ridge, and it looks worse than it really is because of the
shiny highlight on it.
I'm awfully tempted to apply an RTV product right next to the ridge
before assembly, then assemble carb, coupler and adapter together.
Then reach inside and wipe off any squeezed-out RTV, before bolting
the whole assembly to the engine. how about it, Andy...think that'll
fill in the VERY little gap left between the carb and coupler, and
the adapter and coupler?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 16, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> OK, I'm a bit surprised by the existence of that 'ridge' as the ones I
> inspected a while ago just had the two rounded ridges that locate
> in the
> grooves in the carb body and the intake side adapter. In between
> there was a
> gap, which I am suggesting filling. I guess the supplier changed
> the pattern
> slightly. Also, it's really not the AIR we're interested in keeping
> out of
> those spaces or grooves, it's FUEL. Remember, at around 12:1 - 14:1
> air/fuel
> ratio, it doesn't take much extra fuel to upset the ration big-
> time. As fuel
> gets into that groove we think it swirls around due to air
> turbulence and
> then exits back into the airstream in an uncontrolled way, meaning
> that
> 'splashes' of fuel are re-introduced downstream of the carb. These
> splashes
> may-well form a liquid stream at some rpms and go down either the
> left or
> right side of the splitter, causing the mixture imbalance. The idea
> of the
> ring is to make as smooth a bore as possible right into the
> splitter from
> the carburettor, so the mixture of fuel and air has a better chance
> of going
> 50/50 past the splitter. Any left/right EGT (mixture) differences
> would then
> be due to turbulence or twisting of the air through the carb, and
> this could
> be improved by the guide vanes. I recommend doing whatever's needed to
> smooth-out the bore of the carb/coupler/adapter combination first,
> then
> tackle any turbulence separately before the carb in the intake
> system. In
> practice and if you have the right tool rake and cutting speed, you
> might
> use a boring tool to remove the existing ridge inside the coupler,
> then you
> have more space to fit a gap-ring. As always, more than one way to
> accomplish the job but the result should be the same.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn,
A picture's worth a thousand words! That coupler is different to the older
ones. Imagine the central ridge not being there, and that was where I
proposed the additional ring should be. It's a little disappointing to see,
as I was hoping for a big improvement in mixture distribution from your
efforts. Nevertheless, I still think the joints between the 3 parts have a
bearing on the way the fuel / air mixture (or more probably liquid fuel and
air separately) flows down the pipe. I like the idea of RTV as a gap-seal,
as long as it stays-put. The worst case scenario is that a sliver of sealant
gets sucked into a cylinder - so what? I doubt very much it would block
anything in the induction path or burn to form a hard piece causing damage.
Others here might think of something I haven't but for now, it seems like a
simple, cheap and effective solution. Once this is done if it makes
negligible difference, then it HAS to be the air flowing thro' the carb in a
helix, which we pretty-much knew anyway.
Cheers, Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 16 April 2008 16:45
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality
Here's a picture of my coupler, Andy and interested others, with the parting
line of the mold running right around the middle of the ridge. You should be
able to see the two "bumps", one on either side that locate the adapter and
the carb. As this is my used coupler, you might also see a slight dimple
between the ridge and the bump....this is where the carb or the adapter
didn't come all the way into contact with the ridge, and it looks worse than
it really is because of the shiny highlight on it.
I'm awfully tempted to apply an RTV product right next to the ridge before
assembly, then assemble carb, coupler and adapter together.
Then reach inside and wipe off any squeezed-out RTV, before bolting the
whole assembly to the engine. how about it, Andy...think that'll fill in the
VERY little gap left between the carb and coupler, and the adapter and
coupler?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel quality |
Thanks, Andy....somebody at the coupling factory must have read your
mind, because they sure made that gap go away. And just as we were
going to get rich over building rings! : )
When I bored out the aluminum intake snout, that took an almost 1/16"
mis-match in diameters out of the way of the airflow, so maybe a
little was gained in looking into the gap situation, and perhaps not
all the couplings ARE made with the gap-filling ridge, so it behooves
owners to have a look and see.
I just slit my curved fiberglas tube down the middle, and will make
vanes to insert before I close it up again. I'll take pictures as I
go so if anybody wants to copy it...IF IT WORKS...they can. In the
meantime, let the winds blow and the rains come...I'm down for a day
or so. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 16, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> A picture's worth a thousand words! That coupler is different to
> the older
> ones. Imagine the central ridge not being there, and that was where I
> proposed the additional ring should be. It's a little disappointing
> to see,
> as I was hoping for a big improvement in mixture distribution from
> your
> efforts. Nevertheless, I still think the joints between the 3 parts
> have a
> bearing on the way the fuel / air mixture (or more probably liquid
> fuel and
> air separately) flows down the pipe. I like the idea of RTV as a
> gap-seal,
> as long as it stays-put. The worst case scenario is that a sliver
> of sealant
> gets sucked into a cylinder - so what? I doubt very much it would
> block
> anything in the induction path or burn to form a hard piece causing
> damage.
> Others here might think of something I haven't but for now, it
> seems like a
> simple, cheap and effective solution. Once this is done if it makes
> negligible difference, then it HAS to be the air flowing thro' the
> carb in a
> helix, which we pretty-much knew anyway.
>
> Cheers, Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 16 April 2008 16:45
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] EGTs and fuel
> quality
>
> Here's a picture of my coupler, Andy and interested others, with
> the parting
> line of the mold running right around the middle of the ridge. You
> should be
> able to see the two "bumps", one on either side that locate the
> adapter and
> the carb. As this is my used coupler, you might also see a slight
> dimple
> between the ridge and the bump....this is where the carb or the
> adapter
> didn't come all the way into contact with the ridge, and it looks
> worse than
> it really is because of the shiny highlight on it.
>
> I'm awfully tempted to apply an RTV product right next to the ridge
> before
> assembly, then assemble carb, coupler and adapter together.
> Then reach inside and wipe off any squeezed-out RTV, before bolting
> the
> whole assembly to the engine. how about it, Andy...think that'll
> fill in the
> VERY little gap left between the carb and coupler, and the adapter and
> coupler?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | alternator wire gauge |
I believe Pete K. and others have commented that the 3300 alternator has
been known to put out as much as 25-28A if the battery is low enough and the
RPM is high enough. This led to the well known recommendation to dispense
with the Faston quick-tab connections at the regulator end and presumably,
at the end of the alternator's own "pigtail" as well, in favor of soldered
"hard" connections for better current carrying capability, etc.
However, the wire coming out of the alternator looks like it's only 12 AWG,
which is normally not rated for more than 20A. I realize that 12AWG will
carry more than 20A for some indeterminate amount of time, at the cost/risk
of substantial heat generation, but it gets hot enough for long enough, it's
not going to last. (Not sure what gauge the two blue wires at the regulator
are.)
Because of the potential for 25-28A loads, I would normally choose to use 10
AWG between the alternator pigtail and the regulator/ANL current limiter,
but there doesn't seem much point if the alternator pigtail is 12 AWG and
already constitutes the weak link (unintended fusible link) in the circuit
already. So the question is, what gauge is best and/or adequate between the
alternator pigtail and the regulator/ANL? The length of this additional wire
in my system will be roughly 24".
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>
> Chuck-
> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
> copy, I'd quote it) and in it they state that you should not tune
> the engine by changing the float level. It should remain the same,
> and engine performance should be changed by changing the
> appropriate needle, jet, or needle notch setting if the carb has
> the ability to change. From what you said about changing the float
> setting for full throttle, you really should change to a larger
> main jet, not the float setting. This statement is also backed up
> by personnel at Bing via phone call. I know that guys here have
> changed the float level and gotten away with it, but they might
> have had something else wrong to begin with, and the float change
> corrected that, or they might have been too up/down to begin
> with...hard to say. I'm still learning, but I'd rather do what the
> Bing folks say, via manual or spoken word...they should know.
>
> As far as the 4" of straight is concerned, I'm not sure where I
> read/heard that, so maybe I spoke out of turn. Suffice it to say it
> should be as long as possible to really insure of straight flow.
> Here are pictures of the tube I just got done modifying, by adding
> vanes throughout its whole length of about 6", measured right down
> the center. I cut my tube lengthwise and made fiberglas vanes
> inside...quite an ordeal, but it didn't HURT the performance, but
> time and a less windy day than today will tell if it did any good.
> Whether or not it was what did it, but I can now open the throttle
> as fast as my hand will open it, and it responds NOW. Of course,
> the weather has improved since the last time I tried it, so the
> variables might have something to do with it. I also climb at a
> better rpm...now it's 2840 or so, and before it was 2750 or so, but
> that was during cold weather, so I can't really compare apples to
> apples here.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2008, at 12:01 PM, cffd66 wrote:
>
>> Ralph,
>>
>> I recently fitted EGT's to my 2200 (#988). After the vanes on my web
>> site, I then tried a rubber radiator hose but then the EGT's showed
>> uneven temps and rough at full throttle. I then made another vaned
>> coupler 4.5 inches long (two vanes: one horizontal, one vertical)
>> with
>> the vanes 4 inches long. After an S curve, the scat hose comes
>> straight down to the coupler. The EGT's are all very close (50
>> deg) at
>> all power settings. I am still getting data and may have to richen at
>> full throttle (raise float) and then lean for cruise by lowering the
>> needle. I do not have any of the new or old Jabiru tuning kits.
>> Somewhere Lynn had told me the scat should be vertical with 4 inches
>> straight and smooth into the carby.
>>
>> Chuck D.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator wire gauge |
Ron,
What do you mean "this led to the well known recommendation" for
soldered hard connections? Who made the recommendation? Was it from
Pete K?
I have had the connections soldered and have not had any problems since.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: alternator wire gauge
I believe Pete K. and others have commented that the 3300 alternator
has been known to put out as much as 25-28A if the battery is low enough
and the RPM is high enough. This led to the well known recommendation to
dispense with the Faston quick-tab connections at the regulator end and
presumably, at the end of the alternator's own "pigtail" as well, in
favor of soldered "hard" connections for better current carrying
capability, etc.
However, the wire coming out of the alternator looks like it's only 12
AWG, which is normally not rated for more than 20A. I realize that 12AWG
will carry more than 20A for some indeterminate amount of time, at the
cost/risk of substantial heat generation, but it gets hot enough for
long enough, it's not going to last. (Not sure what gauge the two blue
wires at the regulator are.)
Because of the potential for 25-28A loads, I would normally choose to
use 10 AWG between the alternator pigtail and the regulator/ANL current
limiter, but there doesn't seem much point if the alternator pigtail is
12 AWG and already constitutes the weak link (unintended fusible link)
in the circuit already. So the question is, what gauge is best and/or
adequate between the alternator pigtail and the regulator/ANL? The
length of this additional wire in my system will be roughly 24".
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Shannon" <rshannon(at)CRUZCOM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator wire gauge |
By "well known recommendation" I merely meant that, as I wrote, it has been
frequently discussed on this and the Yahoo list that the existing Fast-on
quick tab Molex-style connector will often get too hot & fry, so a hard
wired connection is much preferred. And yes, as I already wrote, Pete has
recommended and stated a strong preference for hard connections/splices
several times, as have others.
Ron
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Ivan wrote:
> Ron,
> What do you mean "this led to the well known recommendation" for soldered
> hard connections? Who made the recommendation? Was it from Pete K?
>
> I have had the connections soldered and have not had any problems since.
>
> Ivan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator wire gauge |
Ron
Thanks for the info. I wish I knew about this a few months ago because
it would have saved a few fried wires. The soldered connections made
everything work just great.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Shannon
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: alternator wire gauge
By "well known recommendation" I merely meant that, as I wrote, it has
been frequently discussed on this and the Yahoo list that the existing
Fast-on quick tab Molex-style connector will often get too hot & fry, so
a hard wired connection is much preferred. And yes, as I already wrote,
Pete has recommended and stated a strong preference for hard
connections/splices several times, as have others.
Ron
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Ivan wrote:
Ron,
What do you mean "this led to the well known recommendation" for
soldered hard connections? Who made the recommendation? Was it from
Pete K?
I have had the connections soldered and have not had any problems
since.
Ivan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn,
The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob Vossman
has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I think the carb
data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My needle is a Bing and
not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my egt's one more time and then
attack the carb, if need be.
Chuck
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>
>> Chuck-
>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Chuck-
I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
what I find.
My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
indeed it was a one-groove needle.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob
> Vossman has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I
> think the carb data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My
> needle is a Bing and not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my
> egt's one more time and then attack the carb, if need be.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel
>> quality
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>>> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>>
>>> Chuck-
>>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn
I have also been chasing a better fuel/air distribution and have finished
with the Bing because I was looking for better control of mixture. I have
been test flying with a TBI conversion using a 45mm throttle body with two
injectors controlled by ECU in the Q-200 airframe powered by the J3300.
I have total control of mix and can over ride the fuel map using a
potentiometer.
But EGT is still uneven and it varies according to engine load and rpm. I am
monitoring EGT at #5 and #6 and see even T at top of climb but then have
seen up to 100degC variance as the load and rpm changes in level flight. I
discussed this with one of the engineers at the factory. He has seen up to
200 deg variance. His advice is to experiment with the intake hose as you
have done but I do not believe it will solve for even EGT. The variance is
worst when the engine is lean but the Bing has been set up to go rich above
2700rpm. When my EGT variance was at its worst the engine began to shake
because of the uneven power strokes R to L and I think this condition could
contribute to the fly wheel bolt problem.
Like you I have been testing for best rpm at WOT but I am over propped
somewhat and the engine has only done about 40 hrs. It is too tight to re
start when hot. I am getting a TAS of 184 KTS in the Quickie at 2950 RPM WOT
but I think there is more potential.
I think the uneven mix is caused by the lack of a reasonable sized induction
manifold. The jab has only a collector of less than 1/2L capacity and
induction pulses as valves close are interfering with the incoming fuel air
mix. The condition varies with RPM.
As an experiment I am making dual manifolds with a cross pipe using standard
SS tube fittings in 64mm diameter x 1.6, The throttle body will feed the
cross pipe from a 63mm tee. Total capacity is about 3.5L.
I hope to test fly within a couple of weeks and will be able to report with
pics then.
If successful I have since found a source prepared to make the fittings in
1.6mm Al tube. My SS manifold has added about 1.5KG net to the weight.The
fittings are expensive .
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: EGTs and fuel quality
Chuck-
I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
what I find.
My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
indeed it was a one-groove needle.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob
> Vossman has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I
> think the carb data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My
> needle is a Bing and not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my
> egt's one more time and then attack the carb, if need be.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel
>> quality
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>>> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>>
>>> Chuck-
>>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn,
Good work on the improvements! I'm sure many of us have found the same
situation of not knowing *exactly* what brings better performance,
especially when we are talking about a few % only, but those RPM increases
are significant. A note about SCEET ducting; I've used it with success on
the intake. Someone once told me that SCAT ducting has an equivalent
resistance of 23, meaning that 1 foot of SCAT ducting has the same
resistance to airflow as 23 feet of smooth-bore pipe! SCEET will be better,
but bear in mind one down-side which I'm sure won't affect you. The inner
'skin' of the duct can perish and suck flat if given enough time and bad
maintenance. It's a fair point, and a few A&Ps have told me it's a no-no to
use it on anything below ambient pressure, i.e. a carburettor intake. My
response (while being sympathetic to the argument) was that most
Experimental aircraft get better maintenance than certificated types(!) and
therefore the idea of a piece of duct not being internally inspected for
(say) 5 years or more is less likely in our world (.....or is it??!!)
Keep up the good work, Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: 19 April 2008 14:36
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: EGTs and fuel quality
Chuck-
I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
what I find.
My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
indeed it was a one-groove needle.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Thanks for the input, Andy....I sure didn't know about, or probably
would not have thought about, the inner skin sucking in, but it makes
sense. I'll give that one some thought, but like you said, maintain
it and it'll probably be OK.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 20, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Andy Silvester wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Good work on the improvements! I'm sure many of us have found the same
> situation of not knowing *exactly* what brings better performance,
> especially when we are talking about a few % only, but those RPM
> increases
> are significant. A note about SCEET ducting; I've used it with
> success on
> the intake. Someone once told me that SCAT ducting has an equivalent
> resistance of 23, meaning that 1 foot of SCAT ducting has the same
> resistance to airflow as 23 feet of smooth-bore pipe! SCEET will be
> better,
> but bear in mind one down-side which I'm sure won't affect you. The
> inner
> 'skin' of the duct can perish and suck flat if given enough time
> and bad
> maintenance. It's a fair point, and a few A&Ps have told me it's a
> no-no to
> use it on anything below ambient pressure, i.e. a carburettor
> intake. My
> response (while being sympathetic to the argument) was that most
> Experimental aircraft get better maintenance than certificated types
> (!) and
> therefore the idea of a piece of duct not being internally
> inspected for
> (say) 5 years or more is less likely in our world (.....or is it??!!)
>
> Keep up the good work, Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 19 April 2008 14:36
> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>
>
>
> Chuck-
> I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
> carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
> EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
> course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
> before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
> Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
> might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
> 90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
> the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
> an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
> the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
> weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
> kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
> the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
> smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
>
> After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
> up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
> changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
> removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
> but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
> to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
> what I find.
>
> My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
> jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
> number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
> indeed it was a one-groove needle.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternator wire gauge |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Ron,
Per the the AC43.13-1B conductor sizing chart, 12 ga wire is good for the following
current ratings on a 14V system: Up to 5 feet = 50 amps, up to 8 feet =
30 amps and up to 11.5 feet = 20 amps. If in a big bundle, de-rate to the chart
a few pages further back in the book.
I cannot comment on your fast-on tab question, but 12 ga wire size should be just
fine. It is what I am using, but I have not gone past a few low speed grounds
runs yet myself.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, working on final assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178100#178100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
I can get my hands on a lightly used floscan transducer dirt cheap. It is a model
201B-18. Looking on Floscan's website I see specs on a 201B-6 but I haven't
had luck finding specs on the -18.
Does any one know if this unit is suitable for use with a Jab 3300 and it's expected
fuel flow rates?
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178552#178552
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com> |
Tim FWIW I have been successfully using a Navman which has a rather
cumbersome turbine transducer and no doubt effects my gravity feed to the
pump.
I find the fuel flow meter one of the most useful in the cockpit especially
for managing fuel flow on a cross country. And it shows remaining fuel with
an accuracy of 2%.
Peter H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Floscan sensor
I can get my hands on a lightly used floscan transducer dirt cheap. It is a
model 201B-18. Looking on Floscan's website I see specs on a 201B-6 but I
haven't had luck finding specs on the -18.
Does any one know if this unit is suitable for use with a Jab 3300 and it's
expected fuel flow rates?
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178552#178552
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Gallagher <crg326(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Floscan sensor |
Tim, the "B" in the model number denotes a flow rate of 0.6 to 60 GPH and is recommended
for 100 to 200 HP. If you do install the flow meter double check the
flow direction before you button every thing up. Also, the FLOW SCAN support
is good before and after your installation , base on my experience on a marine
application. Rgs.,Charles Gallagher
I can get my hands on a lightly used floscan transducer dirt cheap. It is a model
201B-18. Looking on Floscan's website I see specs on a 201B-6 but I haven't
had luck finding specs on the -18.
Does any one know if this unit is suitable for use with a Jab 3300 and it's expected
fuel flow rates?
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178552#178552
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
has anyone installed an oxygen analyzer on the 3300 Jabiru. i think it would be
of interest to know if the mixture was in the ball park at different power settings.
i have purchased one but have not installed it yet. don't really know
if i should.
it would probably have to be put in the muffler or exhaust pipe and that would
be an average of all cylinders rather than telling if one was lean or rich. i
am still running too hot on #5 & 6 cylinders. i have changed the baffles around
recently but have not had a chance to fly with the new configuration.
any ideas??
bobby
601XL
N131BP
65 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
Dear Listers,
I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the
following categories:
Citabria-List Citabria, Decathlon, Scout, and Champ
Zenith601-List Zenair Zodiac CH 601
Zenith640-List Zenair Zodiac CH 640
Zenith701801-List Zenair STOL CH 701 and CH 801
All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives,
Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...:
Citabria:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?citabria-list
Zenith601:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list
Zenith640:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list
Zenith701801:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list
To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here:
http://forums.matronics.com
Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
My EGT's at WOT are a little high 1250 F, while the cruise is a little
rich 1200 F.
Jabiriu 2200, serial # 988, solid lifters, Bing 40mm carb, no tuning
kit, main jet 255, needle jet 276.
Does anyone know how much the WOT EGT's would go down by raising the
float 1/32"?
Then I can lower the needle to lean cruise.
Chuck D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
only one groove for the snap ring.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 27, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
> My EGT's at WOT are a little high 1250 F, while the cruise is a
> little rich 1200 F.
> Jabiriu 2200, serial # 988, solid lifters, Bing 40mm carb, no
> tuning kit, main jet 255, needle jet 276.
> Does anyone know how much the WOT EGT's would go down by raising
> the float 1/32"?
> Then I can lower the needle to lean cruise.
> Chuck D.
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
Lynn,
I am sure I have a needle with several grooves.
When I replaced the float needle with one that has a stronger built in
spring (black), I did not readjust the float. The spring in the old needle
(orange) would compress at 1.5 Oz, while the spring in new needle takes 31
Oz to compress (yes 20 times more). This means that any compression of the
weaker spring would effectively have a higher float level. Thus my float
may be a bit low. The 255 main is larger than what Jabiru now puts in the
Bing. SB 18-1 says mine came with a 250 but it did not, as the main jet
size is scribed in the side of the carb body and on the jet itself. Lately
they are using a 245 main jet. Needle jet sizes can be misleading as the
needles used are different.
Chuck D.
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
> they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
> addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
> whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
> read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
> to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
> only one groove for the snap ring.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com> |
Lynn,
SB18-1 also says for my serial number (988) the needle jet is 276 (which
it is) and the Bing needle is in the second position from the bottom.
Chuck
PS I like this forum better than yahoo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Silvester" <andy(at)suncoastjabiru.com> |
Chuck,
You did the right thing to change the float needle for the stronger (spring)
one as it gives a better seating. However, I would follow Jabiru's advice
NOT to try adjusting the mixture with the float level. You might get away
with it, but our advice was always to change mixture settings on the
pre-economy tuning by raising or lowering the jet needle for fine
adjustment, and if this wasn't enough, change the needle jet for a bigger
one and reset the needle to the 'standard' position which is groove #2, or
one-up from the bottom. If the Wide-Open-Throttle (WOT) setting was too
rich, you could go to a smaller main-jet size but as others have said here,
the relationship between the needle shape and resulting jet orifices (?)
meant that in practice, you could actually remove the main jet completely
and there would be no real difference in WOT mixture, because the fuel still
has to get past the needle jet, which at most throttle/slide positions,
controlled the mixture. The economy tuning definitely improved the cruise
and WOT mixture relationships with a new needle shape, so they went for just
jet-changing rather than (also) needle height adjustment for mixture
alteration. This is why the 'older' straight-tapered needles have 4 grooves
for adjustment, but the new economy needles only have one. The guy who
developed the new needle shape told me he'd prefer the new setup to be
called 'more tunable' rather than 'economy' as it is the needle that
provides the right relationship now between cruise (relatively lean) and WOT
(relatively rich). Unfortunately, the new setup got off to a poor start as
they'd not allowed for the over-lean conditions present in the carb /
induction when operating in lower temperatures, hence with experience the
successive guidance to go bigger on jets to richen the whole range, but
particularly cruise.
You may also be unaware that Jabiru went through a phase a few years back of
drilling-out jets to achieve the required mixture, so what was stamped on
the jet wasn't necessarily the size of the hole.....This was from memory on
2200s before the year 2000, or so, but ask your dealer as they have factory
information (I'm afraid I don't at present). To compound the issues, my
understanding is that the sizes stamped on main jets don't correspond to the
jet diameter, but on needle jets they do! This means a 2.80 needle jet has a
2.80mm hole, but I'm pretty sure a 255 main jet isn't 2.55mm. I have no clue
why this is.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Deiterich
Sent: 28 April 2008 15:16
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Float Level
Lynn,
I am sure I have a needle with several grooves.
When I replaced the float needle with one that has a stronger built in
spring (black), I did not readjust the float. The spring in the old needle
(orange) would compress at 1.5 Oz, while the spring in new needle takes 31
Oz to compress (yes 20 times more). This means that any compression of the
weaker spring would effectively have a higher float level. Thus my float
may be a bit low. The 255 main is larger than what Jabiru now puts in the
Bing. SB 18-1 says mine came with a 250 but it did not, as the main jet
size is scribed in the side of the carb body and on the jet itself. Lately
they are using a 245 main jet. Needle jet sizes can be misleading as the
needles used are different.
Chuck D.
>
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> The Bing manual for the carb says NOT to change the float (from what
> they suggest) to cure a problem, but to cure the problem by
> addressing either the main, the needle jet or the jet needle,
> whichever "neighborhood" the problem resides in (my analogy). I've
> read of guys who have adjusted the float height, but Bing says not
> to. Are you sure you have a "lowerable needle"? Mine is not, having
> only one groove for the snap ring.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net> |
> To compound the issues, my
> understanding is that the sizes stamped on main jets don't correspond to
> the
> jet diameter, but on needle jets they do! This means a 2.80 needle jet has
> a
> 2.80mm hole, but I'm pretty sure a 255 main jet isn't 2.55mm. I have no
> clue
> why this is.
Andy,
Nor do I, but I can verify that what you say about "older" jets being
drilled out is true. On my #051 3300 both the needle jet and the main jet
had been drilled out and were not close to what was stamped on them.
I took to using my set of # drills to figure out what I had before
experimenting. Really would have been nice to know that from the factory.
Jabiru seem to be blind to many common sense pieces of info their customers
deserve.
cheers jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RONAL SMITH" <ronal22(at)verizon.net> |
My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with the
Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I changed the
needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to 240. Now my
high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or above. My engine is
Ser. No. 2030.
Ron Smith
Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
I agree on this forum, Chuck....much better than the other.
JSB018-1 says my needle is 4A138AOD-2 which it is not. Mine is
4A138AOD-1, which I assumed was a "1" groove needle, and by actual
inspection it is. I seem to recall that Jabiru used a proprietary
needle on the later carbs, and maybe they felt that one groove was
enough, and didn't want the average joe messing around with tuning
the various needle positions....I guess they were wrong. : )
Incidentally, I switched from the 276 needle jet to the 278 jet, and
it did not make a difference worth noting. I had been told it would
drop EG temps about 30 F. If it did, then weather conditions were
also different, so the change was not noticeable. I'm planning on
drilling my old 276 out to a larger number than the present 278
(still in engine) and see if the EGT change is noticeable. I'd rather
not drill it myself, relying on the "factory" drilling to be more
accurate, but I figure I'll never go back to the 276, so why not give
home drilling a go....I've got a lathe, so I can't hurt it too
much....a whole lot better than holding it with pliers and having a
neighbor wobble a drill in there. : )
This I would NOT advise!
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
> Lynn,
>
> SB18-1 also says for my serial number (988) the needle jet is 276
> (which it is) and the Bing needle is in the second position from
> the bottom.
>
> Chuck
> PS I like this forum better than yahoo.
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Chuck-
It must be that since your engine and mine, they changed their
thinking on jet needles, and sent mine with only one groove.
I have all three float needles, and I concur with your reading of 1.5
oz on the "silver-springed" light needle. My "gold-springed" medium
needle scales at between 4-5 oz, and my "black-springed" high needle
is in the plane at this time, so I defer to your reading of 31 oz.
The silver, gold, and black colors are what I observed, and are not
"official" by Bing. They refer to the three needles as "float needle
light" , "float needle medium", and "float needle heavy." I ended up
with all three due to various fartings around with the carb. I'm
pretty sure the number of my main (#220) conforms to the size etched
on the carb, but as Andy said earlier.....
"You may also be unaware that Jabiru went through a phase a few years
back of
drilling-out jets to achieve the required mixture, so what was
stamped on
the jet wasn't necessarily the size of the hole.....This was from
memory on
2200s before the year 2000, or so, but ask your dealer as they have
factory
information (I'm afraid I don't at present). To compound the issues, my
understanding is that the sizes stamped on main jets don't correspond
to the
jet diameter, but on needle jets they do! This means a 2.80 needle
jet has a
2.80mm hole, but I'm pretty sure a 255 main jet isn't 2.55mm. I have
no clue
why this is."
.....that number may or may not be of value.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I am sure I have a needle with several grooves.
> When I replaced the float needle with one that has a stronger built
> in spring (black), I did not readjust the float. The spring in the
> old needle (orange) would compress at 1.5 Oz, while the spring in
> new needle takes 31 Oz to compress (yes 20 times more). This means
> that any compression of the weaker spring would effectively have a
> higher float level. Thus my float may be a bit low. The 255 main
> is larger than what Jabiru now puts in the Bing. SB 18-1 says mine
> came with a 250 but it did not, as the main jet size is scribed in
> the side of the carb body and on the jet itself. Lately they are
> using a 245 main jet. Needle jet sizes can be misleading as the
> needles used are different.
February 06, 2008 - April 30, 2008
JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-ae