Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-aq
April 14, 2004 - May 02, 2004
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
Thanks for the reply Michael,
Sounds like I'm doing it right. My sink rate was around 900 to 1,000 FPM
with 85 to 90 MPH indicated airspeed. I'm be afraid to go much past 90MPH
indicated airspeed in a slip because my VNE is only 100mph and I'm sure my
actual airspeed is more than this. Sometime I'll see if I can get 2,00FPM
sink rate without folding the wing back.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Sideslip question
"Harris, Robert" wrote:
> When you do your side-slip are your wings tilted or do you keep them
level?
> Is banking the same as tilted? Are your wings at 45 degree angle or more
to
> the horizon? When I was doing extreme side slips my wings were at 45
degrees
> at times. Am I doing this correct? It sure is fun.
When I do my side-slip, Robert, it is to loose altitude without gaining
speed.
Because seating on the left, a left bank and right pedal is the most common
because it gives me the best view on the runway. But I also practice the
other
way around. With the pedal fully pressed, I need to bank about 30 degrees to
stay on the same heading. If I bank more, I'll turn in that direction. I
have
tried flat side-slip years ago, with a glider. But then, you need to swing
one
side, a few seconds, then the other, and so on. Otherwise you don't stay on
your heading.
Still, I don't know how I could sink 2,000 fpm in a side-slip. Maybe if I
was
gap-sealing my rudder. What do you think?
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
Michel...thanks for the information. I did mean to say EGT...just used to
looking at CHT in the varieze i owned last. My EGT sometimes "tries" to get
to 1250 on one clylinder...which i've been stopping, experiementing with and
may make a jetting adjustment...of course the richer mix at altitude makes
it no problem other than down low. 5600 RPM is also a good cruise# for
me...the EGT is good there, but i'm not getting as much speed....must be the
baggage pod...i'll try it without for a comparison. It was too windy here
to get a solid # for anything this morning....probably 20 knot gusts. I'm
using the GSC pitch tool....so the 19 deg pitch might be at another balde
position...previous pitch was about 16 deg.
Dan Johnson
>From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:48:20 +0200
>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
Hey Michel or anybody else,
What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land in
a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
crosswind at my field.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
daniel johnson wrote:
> That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
prop...will
> you report the following.
Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
have
measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
CHT
and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
F.
Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
F,
except on extended climb on a hot day.
My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
been
yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
smooth
and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the flaperons.
But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can feel
it
by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
how
I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
hasn't
happened yet.
Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
son.
The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
need
to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
lean
and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
soon.
Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have to
watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
comparison..mod3/5 82/gsc
Hi Gary,
I have a 3:1 C drive with a three bladed in flight adjustable Ivoprop and am
concerned about the harmonic vibration. What should I watch for? Can I
alleviate it? At rpms below 2400 my plane really shakes? What can I do to
stop that besides putting in a rk 400 clutch. I like the clutch idea but do
not like the idea of having to take the C drive off every 50 hours for
inspection. I plan on fling 10 plus hour a week. I'll check your reply
4-15-04.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
Re 582 set up.
I have the Lite2 (Model 4) with Bluehead 582 and In Flight Adjustable 2
bladed Medium Ivoprop. I initially had the three blade Ultralight IFA IVO
but I had continual problems with the electric motor due to harmonic
vibration caused by the 3:1 ratio of the C box coupled with 3 bladed prop. I
found out after the fact that IVO don't recommend this combination.
As my pitch changes my speeds may not correspond with your figures:
Take off 6500 rpm
Cruise 5600 rpm = 85mph
Cruise 5800 rpm = 95 mph
I noticed that with the two bladed medium prop it is far quieter and cruise
increased by about 5 mph - it also sounds like a continental now as you can
hardly hear the 2 stroke noise over the prop noise.
Temps vary due to weather but I set up my rad with aluminum tape to restrict
cold winter air and normally cruise at 165 deg F. I have just ordered the
Skystar rad scoop and will be fitting an adjustable door so that I can
control temps from the cabin. I have read a lot of correspondence on this
lately but am not sure if the adjustable devices made were for custom
fibreglass scoops or the Skystar model - can someone advise.
Re Flap Trim.
I learned to fly from a small grass strip (and later on floats) so I have
used flaps from the very start quite aggressively. I listen with interest
when I hear list members canning the use of flaps as I find them a great
tool in my particular applications. I also use the flap trim continuously to
modify not only the stock pressure but also the attitude in flight. I have
found that by trimming a little nose down at speeds above 85mph speed
increases and fuel consumption is reduced by up to 2 Ltr/hr. (I have the
Mizer flow meter so I see immediate responses in fuel consumption to
throttle settings and drag).
When flying on floats flaps reduce the take of run by a significant amount
and when landing the flaps give you a great "nose down" attitude that gives
a panoramic view of the landing site without any build of speed.
My EGT's tend to be lower in flight than most as I fly with a more
aggressive pitch due to the IFA IVO - I could probably address this with
even leaner main jet settings but just haven't got around to it.
Hope this helps
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
HI All.
I've been flying my kitfox 3/582 for about 50 hours now since i've owned
it....and haven't really run into any problems. I've started to try to fine
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
"jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" wrote:
> You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
> go fast, or pull back and slow down.
Thanks for your answer, Jeff, but I am still uncertain: If I want to side-slip
and descend faster, do I have to fly faster or slower? At the moment, I keep
65-70 MPH.
I am not sure I'd like to fly slower because ... stalling while uncoordinated,
isn't it the surest way to get into a spin? I don't ever want to get close to
that ... at low altitude!
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
If you are looking to lose height in a slip then you really need to slow
way, way down.
When I slip I use 60mph to give me good safety margin above stall - then I
can hold a high drag angle of attack combined with a severe bank which gives
lots of side area as drag.
When you get this right the Kitfox comes down like an elevator and when you
are over the strip you just kick in some rudder, straighten up and your
normal rate of descent is re-established.
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like I'm doing it right. My sink rate was around 900 to 1,000 FPM
with 85 to 90 MPH indicated airspeed. I'm be afraid to go much past 90MPH
indicated airspeed in a slip because my VNE is only 100mph and I'm sure my
actual airspeed is more than this. Sometime I'll see if I can get 2,00FPM
sink rate without folding the wing back.
Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/5 |
82/gsc
Robert,
Unfortunately the vibrations below 2400 are pretty normal with any 2 stroke.
This has very little to do with the prop. The harmonic vibrations are a
secondary vibration that occurs (normally in the higher rev ranges) and are
background vibrations that are pretty hard to detect.
What happens is the spool and the lead screw in the Pitch Motor vibrate and
become damaged. The small electric motor also becomes damaged and loses
power. The first signs of a problem are the prop won't "pitch up" in flight
especially if the prop is under load as in a climb out. Once the load is
reduced it works fine. After a while it just stops working. I found this
normally happened at about 100 intervals and in each case IVO replaced the
assy.
Even though the kept replacing the unit at no charge it becomes a pain
waiting for the parts and paying the freight so I finally suggested that we
find the root cause and they questioned me and determine I had the 3:1/C Box
combination. They gave me a full credit on the prop and exchanged it for the
much larger two bladed medium prop and I have had no further problems in 140
hrs of flying wheels/skis and floats.
Re normal engine vibration:
I have set my throttle so that fully closed it will idle down (very roughly)
to 2000 rpm but I always keep the throttle partially open to hold about
2800rpm when I land or idle the engine on warm up etc. I kept the lower
setting available to me for short field landings but even then as the plane
is moving forward there is far less vibration. Two stroke engines and cranks
don't like low frequency vibration.
Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Gary,
I have a 3:1 C drive with a three bladed in flight adjustable Ivoprop and am
concerned about the harmonic vibration. What should I watch for? Can I
alleviate it? At rpms below 2400 my plane really shakes? What can I do to
stop that besides putting in a rk 400 clutch. I like the clutch idea but do
not like the idea of having to take the C drive off every 50 hours for
inspection. I plan on fling 10 plus hour a week. I'll check your reply
4-15-04.
Robert
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
keep your speed down
keep the tail down (stick back)
keep the upwind wing tip down until aileron won't hold it there (you are on two
wheels at this point-tail wheel and upwind main. You are in the same cross-contolled
situation as in the slip you used to get to the runway in the first place.
You were slipping in the crosswind weren't you.
keep your heading straight
all are important but speed (slow) makes the other things work.
>
> Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
> What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
> 15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land in
> a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
> crosswind at my field.
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> Verheughe
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>
> daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
> prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
> Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
> experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
> give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
> passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
> But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
> have
> measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
> CHT
> and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
> F.
> Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
> F,
> except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
> My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
> been
> yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
> during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
> Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
> smooth
> and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the flaperons.
> But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can feel
> it
> by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
> how
> I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
> hasn't
> happened yet.
>
> Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
> son.
> The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
> going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
> need
> to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
> lean
> and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
> average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
> decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
> soon.
> Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have to
> watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
it seems prudent that the slip on final be done at the same indicated speed normally
used on final....varying the speed varies the approach and a consistant
set up will generally result in a consistant landing.
>
> "jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" wrote:
> > You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
> > go fast, or pull back and slow down.
>
> Thanks for your answer, Jeff, but I am still uncertain: If I want to side-slip
> and descend faster, do I have to fly faster or slower? At the moment, I keep
> 65-70 MPH.
> I am not sure I'd like to fly slower because ... stalling while uncoordinated,
> isn't it the surest way to get into a spin? I don't ever want to get close to
> that ... at low altitude!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan Johnson.
>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
>
>
>
>Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
>What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
>15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
>in
>a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
>crosswind at my field.
>Robert
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
>Verheughe
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel
>it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <turboflyer(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
If thats a 90 at 20Kts or MPH , you are a good man.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of daniel
johnson
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan Johnson.
>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
>
>
>
>Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
>What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
>15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
>in
>a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
>crosswind at my field.
>Robert
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
>Verheughe
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel
>it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
hard to tell...mph or knots.somewhere in there....but yeah, it was plenty
this morning. I just changed the pitch on the prop...was just going to run
it up and check for vibration....but hey, there you are sittin in it with
the motor running, ...one think lead to another...you know how it is. I'm
sure i never would have felt comfortable with that much crosswind on
pavement though.
Anyway, thanks for the compliment....i'm just trying not to bend it up
though... :)
Dan in Columbus
>From: "Rick" <turboflyer(at)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:38:05 -0700
>
>
>If thats a 90 at 20Kts or MPH , you are a good man.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of daniel
>johnson
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
>
>
>
>I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
>20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
>field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan
>Johnson.
>
>
> >From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'"
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
> >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> >Hey Michel or anybody else,
> >
> >What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
> >15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
> >in
> >a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always
>a
> >crosswind at my field.
> >Robert
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> >Verheughe
> >To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
> >
> >
> >daniel johnson wrote:
> > > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
> >prop...will
> > > you report the following.
> >
> >Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
> >experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I
>can't
> >give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a
>talkative
> >passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
> >But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH.
>I
> >have
> >measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have
>a
> >CHT
> >and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under
>1,200
> >F.
> >Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over
>160
> >F,
> >except on extended climb on a hot day.
> >
> >My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I
>haven't
> >been
> >yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it
>is
> >during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the
>time.
> >Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
> >smooth
> >and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
> >flaperons.
> >But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
> >feel
> >it
> >by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I
>see
> >how
> >I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
> >hasn't
> >happened yet.
> >
> >Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with
>my
> >son.
> >The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see
>me
> >going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
> >need
> >to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
> >lean
> >and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get
>an
> >average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
> >decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
> >soon.
> >Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
> >to
> >watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad
>news!
> >:-)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Michel
> >
> >
>
>Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
>Premium!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 4/14/04 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
michel(at)online.no writes:
old navigation stuff will only be rambling from old farts like
me and Scott. :-)
Don't forget the real old one @ 64 :-)
I even carried a Sectional in the MD-80 couldn't use those fancy radios,
needles looked like windshield wipers!
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
Elbie,
Those were the windshield wipers... need to use the bottom of the glasses
to see the needles. Heck my loc needle looks like the wipers. :)
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RiteAngle3(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Air Speed
In a message dated 4/14/04 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
michel(at)online.no writes:
old navigation stuff will only be rambling from old farts like
me and Scott. :-)
Don't forget the real old one @ 64 :-)
I even carried a Sectional in the MD-80 couldn't use those fancy radios,
needles looked like windshield wipers!
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michel <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
>===== Original Message From "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
>Sounds like I'm doing it right. My sink rate was around 900 to 1,000 FPM
>with 85 to 90 MPH indicated airspeed. I'm be afraid to go much past 90MPH
>indicated airspeed in a slip because my VNE is only 100mph and I'm sure my
>actual airspeed is more than this. Sometime I'll see if I can get 2,00FPM
>sink rate without folding the wing back.
Gary says that to sink fast, one has to go slow, Robert. I think I'll try
that. Not on final first, but with more than 3,000 ft AGL, to get the feeling
of it, safely.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michel <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
>===== Original Message From "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> =====
>My EGT sometimes "tries" to get to 1250 on one clylinder...
... Are you sure it's not my plane you're flying, Dan? :-)
I get the same thing at about 5,000 RPM, OAT about 5 deg C, and in a slight
descent.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michel <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
>===== Original Message From "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
>What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III?
Well, Robert, for me the limit is nil: I don't do crosswind landings ... yet.
Like you, I fear the ground loop. But I intend to learn. That's the nice thing
with a Kitfox, there is always something new to learn.
Right now I brush up my sideslip technique. I makes sense to keep my upwind
wing down in crosswind. Crosswind and sideslip seems to me to go hand in hand.
Then I'll have to learn to use my flaps, are Gary does.
As I said, never a boring day with a Kitfox and always a good excuse to go out
flying! ... I love it! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" <jeff.hays(at)aselia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
Michel -
When I test flew my airplane, one of the things I tested was cross
controlled flight. What I did was climb up to altitude, chop power,
and then cross controlled (slipped) the airplane until the onset of
a stall. In my series 5, there is a tremendous amount of buffeting
of the turtledeck, well before the actual break. Any little bit of
relaxation of controls IMMEDIATELY brings it back into flying shape.
I think the key here is to take the plane up to altitude, and test fly
your airplane to see how it responds. Talking about it, simply is
not enough. Anybody on the list can say, do this, or do that. But you
really will not know how your airplane will respond until you test it.
My Kitfox, has the most benign stall characteristics of any plane I have
ever flown. You can chop power, hold the stick back, and using rudder only
do a falling leaf mushing descent all the way to the ground if you want.
The slightest power input, or control relaxation immediately brings it
back.
The only time you can get something really exciting, is to do a full power
climbing stall. In which case the climb angle is so steep at the break,
that you get a REALLY radical stall break.
Make yourself a strut mounted angle of attack indicator, it will really
tell you a lot. I made one with about a 1/2" X 30" carbon fiber tube,
with a lexan triangle bolted on the front, which attaches to the jury
strut horizontal tube (via two adel clamps), with a little (6") carbon
fiber missile on a pivot. The Lexan triangle I marked in 10 degree
increments, with colored bands. In level flight I get 0 degrees indicated,
then at 60 mph I get 10 degrees, when I stall the plane it happens at
about 25 degrees.
From the cockpit, I can see it with just a slight glance out the window.
I was originally going to build an electronic AOA using an electronic
rotary position sensor, and drive some led's with an LM3914
led driver. But then decided why bother since the mechanical (homebrew
bacon saver) works so well.
I can't say enough about how much an AOA system helps to learn the
airplane. In my view, the biggest mistake people make flying Kitfox's
is flying them too fast. This causes no end of problems. Go up high
and learn to fly the airplane slllooooowwwwwllllllyyyy.
Regards,
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Michel Verheughe michel(at)online.no
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:55:25 +0200
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Side-slip technique
"jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" wrote:
> You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
> go fast, or pull back and slow down.
Thanks for your answer, Jeff, but I am still uncertain: If I want to
side-slip
and descend faster, do I have to fly faster or slower? At the moment, I keep
65-70 MPH.
I am not sure I'd like to fly slower because ... stalling while
uncoordinated,
isn't it the surest way to get into a spin? I don't ever want to get close
to
that ... at low altitude!
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
This sounds great. I'll try it. Thanks for your help.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
keep your speed down
keep the tail down (stick back)
keep the upwind wing tip down until aileron won't hold it there (you are on
two wheels at this point-tail wheel and upwind main. You are in the same
cross-contolled situation as in the slip you used to get to the runway in
the first place. You were slipping in the crosswind weren't you.
keep your heading straight
all are important but speed (slow) makes the other things work.
>
> Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
> What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
> 15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
in
> a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always
a
> crosswind at my field.
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> Verheughe
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>
> daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
> prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
> Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
> experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I
can't
> give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a
talkative
> passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
> But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
> have
> measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have
a
> CHT
> and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under
1,200
> F.
> Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over
160
> F,
> except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
> My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
> been
> yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it
is
> during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
> Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
> smooth
> and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
flaperons.
> But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
feel
> it
> by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
> how
> I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
> hasn't
> happened yet.
>
> Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
> son.
> The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see
me
> going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
> need
> to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
> lean
> and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
> average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
> decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
> soon.
> Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
to
> watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
"jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" wrote:
> Go up high and learn to fly the airplane slllooooowwwwwllllllyyyy.
Ok, Jeff and Lowell, I will do that. Thanks.
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
Vic Jacko wrote:
> Dan, I agree with your technique. Is probably a little easier for a new
> pilot to slip all the way to landing in a crosswind
Now you got me confused, Vic and Dan.
To me, the "novice" way to handle a crosswing is crabbing. It is what comes
first to mind, you compensate your heading for the leeway.
I thought sideslipping was the correct technique but that it needed training. I
thought touching the ground while crabbing was a sure way to put the CoG of a
taildragger off the centerline and an invitation to the ground loop. I thought
landing on the weather side wheel, while slightly banking in the wind and a
slight pressure on the pedal that will prevent you to weathervane in the
crosswind, was the right thing to do.
Now I am not sure what to think.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
Michel...i'll try to stop the confusion. "I think" its the most pro thing
to do to crab the airplane to the flare...why, 1.correct airspeed
indication, 2. not crosscontrolled at low speed and altitide, 3. ever look
at your passenger and see how they react to slipping? BUT>...You MUST
transition to a slip during the flare...like Lowell says..bring the
tape...or in my case i use my pantleg...right down the centerline.
So it would be...crab to the touchdown zone...time to flare...back stick,
flapperon into the wind, opposite rudder to maintain
centerline...touchdown...like i said, it sounds like a lot to do, but really
crabbing to the runway and transitioning to a slip is pretty natural. I'm
not arguing at all it can't be done by slipping it all the way...just a lot
of work slipping all the way down final.
>From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:52:59 +0200
>
>
>Vic Jacko wrote:
> > Dan, I agree with your technique. Is probably a little easier for a
>new
> > pilot to slip all the way to landing in a crosswind
>
>Now you got me confused, Vic and Dan.
>To me, the "novice" way to handle a crosswing is crabbing. It is what comes
>first to mind, you compensate your heading for the leeway.
>I thought sideslipping was the correct technique but that it needed
>training. I
>thought touching the ground while crabbing was a sure way to put the CoG of
>a
>taildragger off the centerline and an invitation to the ground loop. I
>thought
>landing on the weather side wheel, while slightly banking in the wind and a
>slight pressure on the pedal that will prevent you to weathervane in the
>crosswind, was the right thing to do.
>Now I am not sure what to think.
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
Thanks for those of you that posted your setup on mk3, 582's. I got mine
out again today...minus the baggage pod. It seems like the pod made just a
little more of a difference in speed than i thought. The plane seems to
cruise easily from 65-85 with no temp problemsat my flight today. I tried
just about every power setting at 3000-4500 feet with no trouble. i just
notice i've set up a little too lean to run high RPM cruise. below about
2000 feet....a quick fix.
>From: michel <michel(at)online.no>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:26:09 +0200
>
>
> >===== Original Message From "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com>
>=====
> >My EGT sometimes "tries" to get to 1250 on one clylinder...
>
>... Are you sure it's not my plane you're flying, Dan? :-)
>I get the same thing at about 5,000 RPM, OAT about 5 deg C, and in a slight
>descent.
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Chambers" <l_chambers(at)ckt.net> |
| Subject: | Leo Rice & Doolittle |
I once asked Leo if he knew an Air Force LTC named Doolittle who was flying
C-130's in Vietnam when I was there in 1968. Leo didn't know this young
Doolittle, but said he once flew Jimmy Doolittle from McClellan over to SFO
in the base C-310. Said he was a little nervous with such a famous
passenger, but Jimmy just said "Good Morning", then took out a newspaper,
read, and never said a word till they shut down at SFO.
Les Chambers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
Tell you what. Take your airplane to altitude, do the slowest forward slip that
is possible, if you can make your airplane spin, I will buy your lunch. Clint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
Scott and List,
I just got off the phone with Bell and after we had discussed the types and
ordering info for one roll, I decided to tell him just what it was that I
would be using the tape for.............surprise. He actually suggested a
different type and one that isn't visible (yet) on the website. It is
stickier, UV resistant, more pliant, and has several other qualities that
aren't apparent that make it "the" choice to use for our purposes.
He doesn't show the possibility, but does sell one roll at a time, but as
you can imagine the price is slightly higher if only getting one roll. But
not excessive by any means.........so, after all that, he is sending me a
sample to try and I suggested he contact local homebuilders to conduct his
own survey and then possibly marketing and selling it for similiar
applications and making it known more widely so its easier to find online
Anyway, I will have some of this in several days to try and will give Darrel
(Kitfox) some and I will use it too. I should have some extra if someone
else cares to wait and then try it themselves.
Standby.............oh yeah, this tape comes in clear, but also in several
basic colors - perfect for putting on trim and over graphics without
showing!
Sid (Avid)
Alpena, Mi
------------------------------------
These guys have a good selection of any kind of tape you could imagine.
Any color and clear in a variety of widths of course.
http://belldiversified.com/tapes.html
Scott in Nome
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
You have to figure that the fellow that asked the question isn't likely
going to limit his flying lifetime to one airframe or type...and everyone
knows that crosscontrolling to the stall is a perfect recipe for a spin
entry....i've done hundreds of spins intentionally and i've set back and
watched on checkrides as the student put us right in one he/she didn't
recognize. I just think its a good idea to have all the info about the
situation..although yep its easily managed with controlling AOA..pitch and
power..however you like to think of it.
Like i said early on...its not that it can't be done and done safely to slip
all the way down final. I'm just saying that it is a fact that in a
crab...the controls are neutral compared to the crosscontrol you have to
hold in the slip. It is a fact that depending on pitot location your
airspeed indication can become less reliable. And in my opinion the slip
creates noise and sensation that isn't always real exciting for the
unknowing passenger IF you don't take a minute to let them know whats
happening. that said, i still slip often to come down to our runway after
overflying a nearby airport.
Anyway...i'm sure he'll get comfortable with either or both methods...just
figure its good to throw out the thought that you'd better have a good idea
whats going on low, slow and crosscontrolled. I think its a really bad idea
to assume your airplane wont spin and operate accordingly, even if you've
tried at altitude. common sense stuff when we're talking about operating a
1000 lb airplane in 20 ro 25 mph gusts.
>From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:04:41 +0000
>
>
>
>
>Tell you what. Take your airplane to altitude, do the slowest forward slip
>that is possible, if you can make your airplane spin, I will buy your
>lunch. Clint
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Sealing Tape |
Sign me up Sid! I would very much like to have the opportunity to try some
of the product on my Avid Mark IV.
Steve Cooper
----- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap Sealing Tape
>
> Scott and List,
> I just got off the phone with Bell and after we had discussed the types
and
> ordering info for one roll, I decided to tell him just what it was that I
> would be using the tape for.............surprise. He actually suggested a
> different type and one that isn't visible (yet) on the website. It is
> stickier, UV resistant, more pliant, and has several other qualities that
> aren't apparent that make it "the" choice to use for our purposes.
> He doesn't show the possibility, but does sell one roll at a time, but as
> you can imagine the price is slightly higher if only getting one roll.
But
> not excessive by any means.........so, after all that, he is sending me a
> sample to try and I suggested he contact local homebuilders to conduct his
> own survey and then possibly marketing and selling it for similiar
> applications and making it known more widely so its easier to find online
> Anyway, I will have some of this in several days to try and will give
Darrel
> (Kitfox) some and I will use it too. I should have some extra if someone
> else cares to wait and then try it themselves.
> Standby.............oh yeah, this tape comes in clear, but also in several
> basic colors - perfect for putting on trim and over graphics without
> showing!
>
> Sid (Avid)
> Alpena, Mi
> ------------------------------------
>
> These guys have a good selection of any kind of tape you could imagine.
> Any color and clear in a variety of widths of course.
> http://belldiversified.com/tapes.html
> Scott in Nome
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
I apologize if you have already discussed this tape supply, but have you
looked at this tape supply for gap sealing tape?
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
In a message dated 16/04/2004 3:44:00 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time,
spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Sign me up Sid! I would very much like to have the opportunity to try some
> of the product on my Avid Mark IV.
>
> Steve Cooper
>
Could I buy a roll of this tape to bring back here to OZ (Australia). Will
be in The States in early to mid-May.
cy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Thomas" <jeffthomas(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches |
I have been following the recent discussion on crabbing versus slipping
approaches with interest and would like to offer my thoughts / queries on
the subject.
I understand airliners make crabbing approaches.... but understood that
because the flaps that are wound out before landing on modern air liners
extend back so far and so low on some (many?) there is a risk they could
contact the runway on the "low wing" of a slipping approach... or is that
just nonsense I have picked up from somewhere?
There is a lot of correct talk about slipping at minimum speed (with the
associated inaccurate airspeed reading) being the very conditions to
initiate a spin. But who is slipping at minimum speed into a strong (and
therefore probably blustery) crosswind? When I land with a slip I also lower
the nose significantly to ensure adequate airspeed (even allowing for a miss
reading airspeed indicator).
Landing a tricycle undercarriage aircraft in a crab (where the centre of
gravity is in front of the main wheels) means that if you actually touch
down in a crabbed position the C of G will automatically try to straighten
the aircraft up. With a tail dragger (and C of G behind the main wheels)
touching down crabwise is risky and will tend to be punished by the C of G
trying to aggravate the situation into a ground loop.
When making a crabbing approach the work load gets quite high at the point
of landing. During the flair the rudder has to be used to straighten the
aircraft at the same time as opposite aileron is applied to prevent the into
wind wing raising. Do it too early (or if the aircraft floats on) and you
risk drifting off the side of the runway, do it too late and we are back to
inviting the ground loop again.... al while actually landing the aircraft.
Approaching in a slip does of course means applying crossed controls (so
what, this is a recognised technique we learn about isn't it?) However a
slip can be set up nice and early on final approach and stays pretty much
the same right down to the flare and landing with the lower into wind wheel
touching down first.
I tend to find that either method works fine when landing a tricycle
undercarriage aircraft and in this type of plane the crabbing technique is
easier to learn / more natural for a novice pilot. On balance though and
with practice, I probably think the slipping approach offers greater
advantages when landing a tail dragger?
I am now going to duck and wait to be shot down by those who know better!
Regards
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
> HI Elbie...i wouldn't say crabbing is a novice technique....for example,
we
> all crab airliners...just go out to the airport on a really windy
> day....watch the noses of the big iron just before touchdown...you'll see
> them all trade the crab angle for a slip during flare. Realize i'm not
> talking about touching down crabbed....i'm just saying that holding an
> airplane in a slip for a mile final is fairly useless (unless you need to
> lose the altitude) when you only need it at touchdown. In a crab the
flight
> controls are really just neutral...in the other case the poor guy is
holding
> cross controls all the way down...and for what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Lina" <airlina(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
Speaking of spins, has anyone ever spun their kitfox? I know Skystar has not
conducted a spin test program and thus prohibits spins but I have one of the
old promotional videos showing Jimmy Franklin doing some spins in a
Speedster.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
>
> Tell you what. Take your airplane to altitude, do the slowest forward slip
that is possible, if you can make your airplane spin, I will buy your lunch.
Clint
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gill Levesque <canpilot03(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Hey ! Y'all
When setting the airframe "level" for weight and balance check, the manual says
to have the airplane in a level flight attitude!! What do I level? Bottom of
wing? Bottom longeron? ect!!! I did mine with the wing bottom level and came
out very light on the tail wheel weight! Any suggestions!!!
Gil Levesque
Model 4
582
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gill Levesque <canpilot03(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Weight of static system |
Hi Y'all again!!!
I recently installed a static system as recomended ( one on each side forward
of the stab) . In my haste, I forgot to weigh the ports ,plastic tee and fittings
and tubing! I also added 2 inspection holes and covers! Do any of you have
the approx weight so that I can figure the change to my W&B!! Thanks all!!!
Gil Levesque
Model 4 1050
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
I would think we will have the sample and some views by then. Darrel has
actually used the SkiSaver tape and can make a good comparison, if he ever
gets back to Michigan from Spokane...........will let the list know as soon
as we get it and "pull it apart" for inspection. Cost was only about $5.00
per roll, plus a small shipping charge. Can't imagine it being too
expensive to ship some to the "land down under" if we miss your return date.
...heck, grab several rolls and become the OZ distributor!
Sid
-----------------------
Could I buy a roll of this tape to bring back here to OZ (Australia). Will
be in The States in early to mid-May.
cy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
Yes we had Don, but Thanks for reminding us of this website. The thought
here was the W and W stuff was pretty expensive and only comes in white
(TISSU) or the tan colors and nobody has tried painting over the stuff yet.
Probably being teflon it won't hold a coating of any kind. This stuff from
Bell is clear and or comes in some colors which he will tell us about soon..
........I'll let the list know immediately as soon as I do. The gentleman
s name from Bell was Cory for those that may want to do their own R&D. We
may want to keep this address until this new idea pans out and proves itself
Hmmmmnnn. :-)
Sid
----------------------
I apologize if you have already discussed this tape supply, but have you
looked at this tape supply for gap sealing tape?
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
I remember learning side slips in my Challenger. On one occasion I slipped
so severely that the 0.060" Lexan popped in and smacked me in the face. That
certainly gets your attention when your about 10 foot over the trees on
final descent into a small lake.
I remember when I first purchased my old Challenger I had problems with the
fuel circuit and I was just going solo over a small grass field at about
2,000ft - I had idled back and the engine stopped, I was so far behind the
plane that I had lost about 500ft before I realised what had happened.
Everywhere around was pretty well treed so I decided that little field right
under me was where I wanted to be.
I side slipped so savagely that the 0.060" Lexan side window popped in and
smacked me hard in the face. I must have come down at about 2500 ft/min as I
started the slip at the approach to the field at about 1500 ft and still
managed to land safely and stop. My instructor congratulated me but
commented that I was probably a bit premature in practicing dead stick side
slips so early in my flight training.
I fixed the fuel problem and always keep that technique up my sleeve - just
in case.
I did the same thing when I first landed at a "real" airport and was
concentrating so hard on the approach and the radio work that I basically
forget to lose altitude. When I finally lined up on final that 5000ft strip
looked like a postage stamp. I was too embarrassed to ask for a go around so
I just slipped right down to the numbers - I got away with that one too as
the controllers commented favourably on me practicing my great slipping
technique at their door step....
Question - I was under the impression that indicated air speed in a slip was
representative of the actual air speed over the wing - therefore maintaining
1.3 stall at a reasonable AOA would prevent a stall. Any takers on this
.............
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
I believe the datum for level is the lower longeron or lower door frame. This will
give the bottom of the wing (where do you measure level on that curvilinear
surface) a slightly positive angle of incidence.
The resulting lowering of the tail would put more weight on the tailwheel with
a shift in the numbers.
>
> Hey ! Y'all
> When setting the airframe "level" for weight and balance check, the manual says
> to have the airplane in a level flight attitude!! What do I level? Bottom of
> wing? Bottom longeron? ect!!! I did mine with the wing bottom level and came
> out very light on the tail wheel weight! Any suggestions!!!
> Gil Levesque
> Model 4
> 582
> C-IGVL
>
>
>
> Still alive and flyin!!!!
>
> Gil
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Sealing Tape |
how can you improve on $.39 worth of clear shelf liner that is still in place and
showing no uv damage after 8 years?
>
>
> Yes we had Don, but Thanks for reminding us of this website. The thought
> here was the W and W stuff was pretty expensive and only comes in white
> (TISSU) or the tan colors and nobody has tried painting over the stuff yet.
> Probably being teflon it won't hold a coating of any kind. This stuff from
> Bell is clear and or comes in some colors which he will tell us about soon..
> ........I'll let the list know immediately as soon as I do. The gentleman
> s name from Bell was Cory for those that may want to do their own R&D. We
> may want to keep this address until this new idea pans out and proves itself
> Hmmmmnnn. :-)
>
> Sid
> ----------------------
>
> I apologize if you have already discussed this tape supply, but have you
> looked at this tape supply for gap sealing tape?
>
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Slip incident |
slip versus crab is one of the perennial discussions, right up there with the danger
of the downwind turn??
several comments on this thread have mixed their discussion without reference or
deference to forward slips vs. side slips. while similar in nature and control
input they are significantly different visually and aurally from the cockpit.
now I don't remember which is which but it has to do with the relationship
of the centerline of the aircraft and the course over the ground.
(Forward slip keeps the centerline of the aircraft and the centerline of the runway
parallel? and is used to maintain that relationship) If that is correct then
the sideslip has the centerline of the aircraft at an angle to ground track
and is used to lose altitude.
on passenger comfort...losing altitude in a slip IS disconcerting, but I have found
that the a crabbed approach is just a disconcerting because they percieve
that the landing will be "in the weeds". My experience that a forward slip in
a crosswind is not even recognized by passengers.
most SEL pilots don't have to worry about dragging a wingtip, or engine pod, or
picking up FOD when landing wing low.
these discussion are what enlivens our group. thanks to you all.
>
> I remember learning side slips in my Challenger. On one occasion I slipped
> so severely that the 0.060" Lexan popped in and smacked me in the face. That
> certainly gets your attention when your about 10 foot over the trees on
> final descent into a small lake.
>
> I remember when I first purchased my old Challenger I had problems with the
> fuel circuit and I was just going solo over a small grass field at about
> 2,000ft - I had idled back and the engine stopped, I was so far behind the
> plane that I had lost about 500ft before I realised what had happened.
> Everywhere around was pretty well treed so I decided that little field right
> under me was where I wanted to be.
>
> I side slipped so savagely that the 0.060" Lexan side window popped in and
> smacked me hard in the face. I must have come down at about 2500 ft/min as I
> started the slip at the approach to the field at about 1500 ft and still
> managed to land safely and stop. My instructor congratulated me but
> commented that I was probably a bit premature in practicing dead stick side
> slips so early in my flight training.
>
> I fixed the fuel problem and always keep that technique up my sleeve - just
> in case.
>
> I did the same thing when I first landed at a "real" airport and was
> concentrating so hard on the approach and the radio work that I basically
> forget to lose altitude. When I finally lined up on final that 5000ft strip
> looked like a postage stamp. I was too embarrassed to ask for a go around so
> I just slipped right down to the numbers - I got away with that one too as
> the controllers commented favourably on me practicing my great slipping
> technique at their door step....
>
> Question - I was under the impression that indicated air speed in a slip was
> representative of the actual air speed over the wing - therefore maintaining
> 1.3 stall at a reasonable AOA would prevent a stall. Any takers on this
> .............
>
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches |
My approach to this is very much like Jeff's. To crab in because a B-747
does doesn't translate to my little tail dragger Kitfox. I have been led
to believe that a 747 crabs to touch down because of the flap issue and also
the outboard engine doesn't do well scraping the pavement.
I side slip quite steeply - rudder pedal to the floor - to lose altitude,
but if I found myself in that situation to manage a cross wind landing, it
would be either find another airport and take the bus, as was mentioned as a
prudent choice, or land unconventionally on a taxiway.
After flying with our group a whole bunch of hours, It is surprising how
often our little airplanes are flown one wing low in cruise. Not
intentionally, mind you, but the Kitfox requires a bit of attention if not
rigged perfectly, and I believe is the reason that one tank tends to drain
faster than the other, as has been reported in the past on the list. I also
fly cross controlled from time to time to keep my lift strut mounted camera
on a subject for short periods - not a dangerous practice IMO.
A thought on the inaccuracy of the airspeed in a slip. The geometry of the
thing suggests to me that any inaccuracy would be on the positive side as to
actual airspeed as the ASI would read low to zero and the prudent pilot
would control to increase the reading. There was also a note on the list
recently that indicated that actual testing showed that airspeed remained
fairly accurate up to a 25 or so angle of incidence (please correct me if I
am wrong in this).
Regarding passengers. I always warn about the side slip to descend, but in
my airplane, I feel there would be more consternation in the novice
passenger seeing the airplane pointing at the trees beside the runway on
approach and seemingly flying sideways, than seeing the nose pointing at the
centerline and tracking in that direction with one wing slightly low - a
phenomenon not readily apparent in the Kitfox given the lack of a horizontal
reference point in the cockpit - exception, the forward Spar carry through -
high and virtually out of sight..
I guess if I found myself on a very long final, I would initially approach
with a crab, but my transition to a forward slip would be significantly
before the flare to stabilize the airplane and avoid the last minute
(second) work load as Jeff mentions it. I just don't see the problem using
the forward slip for landing. I set up for it, and it has worked
uneventfully for almost 600 hours.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Thomas" <jeffthomas(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches
>
> I have been following the recent discussion on crabbing versus slipping
> approaches with interest and would like to offer my thoughts / queries on
> the subject.
>
> I understand airliners make crabbing approaches.... but understood that
> because the flaps that are wound out before landing on modern air liners
> extend back so far and so low on some (many?) there is a risk they could
> contact the runway on the "low wing" of a slipping approach... or is that
> just nonsense I have picked up from somewhere?
>
> There is a lot of correct talk about slipping at minimum speed (with the
> associated inaccurate airspeed reading) being the very conditions to
> initiate a spin. But who is slipping at minimum speed into a strong (and
> therefore probably blustery) crosswind? When I land with a slip I also
lower
> the nose significantly to ensure adequate airspeed (even allowing for a
miss
> reading airspeed indicator).
>
> Landing a tricycle undercarriage aircraft in a crab (where the centre of
> gravity is in front of the main wheels) means that if you actually touch
> down in a crabbed position the C of G will automatically try to straighten
> the aircraft up. With a tail dragger (and C of G behind the main wheels)
> touching down crabwise is risky and will tend to be punished by the C of G
> trying to aggravate the situation into a ground loop.
>
> When making a crabbing approach the work load gets quite high at the point
> of landing. During the flair the rudder has to be used to straighten the
> aircraft at the same time as opposite aileron is applied to prevent the
into
> wind wing raising. Do it too early (or if the aircraft floats on) and you
> risk drifting off the side of the runway, do it too late and we are back
to
> inviting the ground loop again.... al while actually landing the aircraft.
>
> Approaching in a slip does of course means applying crossed controls (so
> what, this is a recognised technique we learn about isn't it?) However a
> slip can be set up nice and early on final approach and stays pretty much
> the same right down to the flare and landing with the lower into wind
wheel
> touching down first.
>
> I tend to find that either method works fine when landing a tricycle
> undercarriage aircraft and in this type of plane the crabbing technique is
> easier to learn / more natural for a novice pilot. On balance though and
> with practice, I probably think the slipping approach offers greater
> advantages when landing a tail dragger?
>
> I am now going to duck and wait to be shot down by those who know better!
>
> Regards
>
> Jeff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Gil, I believe what you want level is the underside of the cabin floor
(page FE1 my Model IV manual)
I used a straight piece of wood with equal length stand-offs so it would
clear the landing gear and used the forward and aft cross tubes under the
cabin floor as reference points.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Levesque" <canpilot03(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight and balance
>
> Hey ! Y'all
> When setting the airframe "level" for weight and balance check, the
manual says to have the airplane in a level flight attitude!! What do I
level? Bottom of wing? Bottom longeron? ect!!! I did mine with the wing
bottom level and came out very light on the tail wheel weight! Any
suggestions!!!
> Gil Levesque
> Model 4
> 582
> C-IGVL
>
>
> Still alive and flyin!!!!
>
> Gil
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood(at)mcsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches |
Also worked for me over 800 hours and many landings.
My slips to landing only occur on short final, not over the whole final
approach!
bh
ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs
> I just don't see the problem using
> the forward slip for landing. I set up for it, and it has worked
> uneventfully for almost 600 hours.
>
> Lowell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches yesterday |
I was geting checked out in a 172 yesterday and instructor asked for a
landing with one notch of flap ... OK, but I found myself a bit high and fast,
so I
slipped a bit to fix and made a great landing (lucky) ....... just like
in my KF wich I ammuch more familiar with almost 250 hours the past 2 years.
Adding flap poses problem in that if you put in to much, removing some flap
on final is not so cool..... adjusting slip is so much easier ... at to me.
Like other postings, I agree, there is no right or wrong, what is more
comfortable.
My strip is about 800 feet and at first I felt it was impossible to use.
Now, its fun.
Took a while!
This is so much fun..... :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Important Guys, Please Read |
EAA has a petition on their web site regarding Sport Pilot. It is VERY
important for anyone who wants the new Sport Pilot rule to sign the
petition. Here is the Short-cut to the site. Please Sign so we can get Sport
Pilot out of OMB (Office of Management and Budget)
http://www.eaa.org/govt/petition.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches |
Hmm touch down crabbing?
Boy, I am a bit confused....
If you have a cross wind, the wheels must touch on the runway straight, but
the airplane must fly "slipping" or crabbing to achieve this.... right?
Up-wind wing low and opposite rudder .... works great.... I like to even roll
on
the up wind main wheel if there is a strong enough cross wind to insure my
little KF doesn't get a gust under the light wings :-)
Frankly, its amazing how much crosswind the KF can be flown in ... the
powerfull rudder is the key....
Just on opinion
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Important Guys, Please Read |
Thanks Steve, signed and sent in.
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Weight and balance |
Gil,
Level the fuse at the cabin floor.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gill Levesque
Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight and balance
Hey ! Y'all
When setting the airframe "level" for weight and balance check, the manual
says to have the airplane in a level flight attitude!! What do I level?
Bottom of wing? Bottom longeron? ect!!! I did mine with the wing bottom
level and came out very light on the tail wheel weight! Any suggestions!!!
Gil Levesque
Model 4
582
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Gap Sealing Tape |
Doesn't sound like we can! :-) Name the store and if possible the
product........will check that out too! I haven't a clue as to what to look
for and our local Wally World doesn't carry anything like that. Where, how,
and when..........
Sid
---------------------
how can you improve on $.39 worth of clear shelf liner that is still in
place and showing no uv damage after 8 years?
>
>
> Yes we had Don, but Thanks for reminding us of this website. The thought
> here was the W and W stuff was pretty expensive and only comes in white
> (TISSU) or the tan colors and nobody has tried painting over the stuff yet
> Probably being teflon it won't hold a coating of any kind. This stuff
from
> Bell is clear and or comes in some colors which he will tell us about soon
> ........I'll let the list know immediately as soon as I do. The gentleman
> s name from Bell was Cory for those that may want to do their own R&D. We
> may want to keep this address until this new idea pans out and proves
itself
> Hmmmmnnn. :-)
>
> Sid
> ----------------------
>
> I apologize if you have already discussed this tape supply, but have you
> looked at this tape supply for gap sealing tape?
>
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul <pwilson(at)climber.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Crabbing vs Slipping approaches |
>----snip----
>A thought on the inaccuracy of the airspeed in a slip. The geometry of the
>thing suggests to me that any inaccuracy would be on the positive side as to
>actual airspeed as the ASI would read low to zero and the prudent pilot
>would control to increase the reading. There was also a note on the list
>recently that indicated that actual testing showed that airspeed remained
>fairly accurate up to a 25 or so angle of incidence (please correct me if I
>am wrong in this).
>----snip----
>Lowell
=====
I recall from my fluids book that the wind tunnel error is less than 1% for a
pitot-static tube up to 20 from the wind direction. If you have a remote static
then this comment is not valid due to ram air or lack of ram air, example, for
a fuge mounted static. That is why pitot-static is the most desirable. A correct
pitot-static probe has multiple static holes (a half dozen + or so) to allow
averaging the static pressure resulting in accurate readings.
Paul
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
I don't know about the model 4 ,but the model 3 manual says to use the bottom
of the fusalage, between the landing gear for level. If you have the model 4
manual it should have explained that in the wing section.In the manual I
have, it makes first mention of it in the in the section about fitting the
Flaperon.You may want to go back and check that, you may have a plane that flys
like
moth if you don't.
Best David Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
On short field landing over trees, is it better to slow and pull the stick back
to get your speed down or to slip down? my problem with slipping is the speed
at flare. it too hot to touch down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
In a message dated 4/16/04 5:39:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Tc9008(at)aol.com
writes:
On short field landing over trees, is it better to slow and pull the stick
back to get your speed down or to slip down? my problem with slipping is the
speed at flare. it too hot to touch down.
I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but the answer is sorta like how long is a
piece of string except that has a definite answer ~~ twice as long as 50% of
it. ~~ There are many many variables, wind velocity, wind direction, turbulence,
how much turbulence over the trees and so on. Get an experienced flight
instructor, experienced in not only the "Fox" but in the type of flying you want
to do and have him work you over. It will be the best money you ever spent,
confidence is a matter of experience, and the only way to gain experience is to
fly & practice. IF you have to slip to get into the field, should you really
be going in there? Always leave yourself an out, sure we must plan for
emergencies and that is extremely important, but it is like I tell my students~
If
you have to climb out at the best angle of climb instead of best rate of climb
to clear trees or whatever, what are you doing there in the first place! Do
you really know the actual difference in a stabilized approach at mim speed with
full flaps and a slip to landing in actual feet to stopping the aircraft?
Until you get really proficient you will be amazed.
Remember~~Safety is No Accident!
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
Spins? Sure...:0) Hard to initiate in a Model III. Have to pull the nose
way up to get it to spin. Even then it will spiral dive instead of spin if
I back off the pitch even a little bit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Lina" <airlina(at)usadatanet.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
> Speaking of spins, has anyone ever spun their kitfox? I know Skystar has
not
> conducted a spin test program and thus prohibits spins but I have one of
the
> old promotional videos showing Jimmy Franklin doing some spins in a
> Speedster.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Tell you what. Take your airplane to altitude, do the slowest forward
slip
> that is possible, if you can make your airplane spin, I will buy your
lunch.
> Clint
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Dcecil3(at)aol.com wrote:
> I don't know about the model 4 ,but the model 3 manual says to use the bottom
> of the fusalage, between the landing gear for level.
The way I did it in my model 3 is to set a water level on the floor of the
cockpit. Isn't that good enough?
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <barryhuston(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Most Adverse Aft C.G. |
Hi Folks ---- Most Adverse Aft C.G. Questions
The Stated C.G. Envelope for the Model IV - 1200 is 10.2" to 16"
Currently: As a 912 powered tail dragger fully loaded using actual pilot and passenger
weights, the most adverse aft C.G. is at the limit of 16".
Issue: In converting it to an amphibious float plane --- without wheels before
adding the floats, the C.G. approaches 16.4"
The Ideal location for the float C.G. is at the Plane gross C.G. and should be
3" to 6" ahead of the float step, therefore keeping the overall C.G.at 16.4'.
Before I start moving equipment to less desirable locations I would be interested
in opinions on how far the Aft C.G. can be stretched (if at all) and was wondering
if a safety factor has been built into the C.G. envelope.
Thanks
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Michel whatever works best. I was just quoteing the actual manual.There are a
Gazillion ways to do everything , as long as you arrive at the same
conclusion.You used a Water level, I used a 60" Carpenter's Framing Level .Some
would
prefer a Laser Level.the manual just says "Level the Plane" if you wanna
balance it on the Empire State building it's your plane.Betcha Cessna dosen't
have
that much leway
Best David Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Used Kitfox and the DAR |
Talked to the builder at lenght.Found out what I expected. When the Insurance
CO. paid the claim on the Kitfox they also took the airworthiness
certificate. The good news is the builder is still using the same Guy!!!!!!!!!
so should
have what I need soon. Now a Warning to all those would be damaged kitfox
builders and to those of you considering selling your plane. The way it was
explained to me by the FAA, if we find the Airworthiness Certificate (AWS) then
it
stays with the plane and the plane is a rebuild and you don't need a DAR to
inspect the plane, Just an A&P to sign it off but, If the AWS is turned in to
Oklahoma City then I can start from scratch it will be "My" kit and I'm the
builder.The later is the best choice because, if you do it as a rebuild, you
will forever implicate the original builder, his name not yours will be on the
AWS Neat aint it all this Because the Insurance CO didn't send the AWS to OK
City
Best David Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
Just a thought re spins....
That airshow KF was a clipped wing.... big difference re spin recovery.
The Older KF were shy on vertical fin, this is less of problem on a clipped
wing regarding spin recovery.
CG, also has a very large bearing on spin recovery.
The best scenario is a nose heavy clipped wing, the worst is a full span with
an aft CG.
Personally, I would not spin it unless I knew exactly what was done before,
safely.
I kinda speak the obvious, but safety is our highest priority
Best,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
In a message dated 4/17/04 7:13:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Aerobatics(at)aol.com writes:
Personally, I would not spin it unless I knew exactly what was done before,
safely.
I kinda speak the obvious, but safety is our highest priority
Best,
Dave
Dave, I agree with this 1000%, I haven't flown over 25000 hours by
doing to many really stupid things, more than I'd like to admit I know. Spins
in aircraft that haven't been successfully recovered from spin testing are NOT
one of the things I'm going to do, that is a field left for the professional
test pilots in my opinion. I had a cousin that was test pilot for Culver
Aircraft in Wichita, spin testing a new 4 place in the late 40's and watched the
company go bankrupt -- as he floated down in his parachute. He completed his
career as a test pilot for Cessna Aircraft, doing both production and initial
flight test work. When going to college I used to ride around with him on
production test flights in all Cessna aircraft that were in production in the late
'50's& early 60's--things have changed slightly!
I have a file of all stall/spin type aircraft accidents over the last 10
years, however homebuilt aircraft are not listed in a way you can see what type
they are unless you do an N number search due to many builders using their names
as the manufacturer. It will sure make you think a bit when you look at it
and study the causes!
Safety is No Accident
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
Wow 25,000 hours? er um ...my total now is only around 600
But, I design model, radio control aircraft for a living (past 25 years) and
the evolutionary process for us is very fast, allowing us to make many
changes, easily and quickly. We can learn a lot.
The KF is a great plane, and not so great. The KF 2 I own, I love, BUT, its
short coupled and under-finned. We would never even consider doing a model
this way. I can only imagine, that with an aft CG location, is a formula for
disaster. I speak only from practical experience from models. Once spinning,
I
suspect it could go flat further making recovery very difficult.
With a forward CG location, it MIGHT be OK? But man, no way I want to take
that chance.
Spinning can vary a lot. When they test a production plane I bet the process
is under a wide CG range, different types of entry, different weights and so
on.
Unless someone can prove to me it was done with a plane... I wont do it....
Rent an aerobat like a Pitts, Extra, Cessna aerobat etc. and get
isntruction. There are many that are a blast.
I still talk about my limited dual ( 4 hours) in a Pitts S2B wow! I mean
really big wow!
It was with a pro, in a certified aerobatic plane and I had a chute.....
Dave
KF 2 582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
Dcecil3(at)aol.com wrote:
> Michel whatever works best. I was just quoteing the actual manual.
Of course, David. But you sound a bit offended as if I was trying to be
patronizing with "a better way" of levelling. It was certainly not the case and
I apologize if I gave that impression. You know that I am a novice and
certainly not able to give any advice. My answer was rather to be understood as
a question, like: "I do it on the top of the floor, which, I hope, is the same
as the bottom of the fuselage, as indicated in the same manual as yours."
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Jones <fire_n_ice(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Sealing Tape:shelf liner |
> Doesn't sound like we can! :-) Name the store and if possible the
> product........will check that out too! I haven't a clue as to what to
look
> for and our local Wally World doesn't carry anything like that. Where,
how,
> and when..........
> Sid
Sid, here's one brand available at "Office Depot"
http://www.office-discounts-online.com/store/SchoolCraftMaterials_CraftAccessories/950816.asp
I use this for covering documents...check lists etc...it is very flexible
and seems to last forever. A 24 inch X 36 foot roll was $5.99.
Here's the company web site http://www.kittrich.com/
Click on "Magic Cover"
Tom Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
practice slipping at your (slow) approach speed until you are comfortable with
the handling.
>
> On short field landing over trees, is it better to slow and pull the stick back
> to get your speed down or to slip down? my problem with slipping is the speed
at
> flare. it too hot to touch down.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
In Salinas we have two of the worlds best acro pilots. Wayne Handley holds
the worlds record for most inverted flat spins. While doing some spin
testing for an Agricultural Aircraft company he found that although the
plane was difficult to get into a spin, it would not recover from one spin
mode without a spin chute deployment. Yes the plane had a long wing and was
short coupled.
Sean D Tucker stepped out of a Pitts he was practicing in when it would not
recover. Of course it recovered and flew away after he was gone.
So even certified, spin resistant and profesional pilot does not guaranty
spin recovery. Perhaps this is the reason spins are no longer required by
the FAA for licensing.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aerobatics(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits ...Spin,
>
> Wow 25,000 hours? er um ...my total now is only around 600
>
> But, I design model, radio control aircraft for a living (past 25 years)
and
> the evolutionary process for us is very fast, allowing us to make many
> changes, easily and quickly. We can learn a lot.
>
> The KF is a great plane, and not so great. The KF 2 I own, I love, BUT,
its
> short coupled and under-finned. We would never even consider doing a
model
> this way. I can only imagine, that with an aft CG location, is a formula
for
> disaster. I speak only from practical experience from models. Once
spinning, I
> suspect it could go flat further making recovery very difficult.
>
> With a forward CG location, it MIGHT be OK? But man, no way I want to
take
> that chance.
>
> Spinning can vary a lot. When they test a production plane I bet the
process
> is under a wide CG range, different types of entry, different weights and
so
> on.
>
> Unless someone can prove to me it was done with a plane... I wont do
it....
>
> Rent an aerobat like a Pitts, Extra, Cessna aerobat etc. and get
> isntruction. There are many that are a blast.
>
> I still talk about my limited dual ( 4 hours) in a Pitts S2B wow! I
mean
> really big wow!
>
> It was with a pro, in a certified aerobatic plane and I had a chute.....
>
> Dave
>
> KF 2 582
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | broschart <cfbflyer(at)localnet.com> |
not having flown since october when i landed the other day i did a 360
around a runway light
that's a little unnerving so i disabled the tail wheel release, that
makes parking hard so i made up a u shaped wedge that releases the tail
wheel and stays in place till removed, works good with a little
inconvenience in parking
Have a good day - Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michel <michel(at)online.no> |
>===== Original Message From broschart <cfbflyer(at)localnet.com>
>not having flown since october when i landed the other day i did a 360
>around a runway light.
Charlie, that raises a question I have asked myself ... and now, I ask the
list:
If a ground loop is started, is it better to let the tailwheel free-castoring
or not? Somehow I feel that if it is too late to avoid it, it might be as well
that the tail offers no resitance on the ground and let the inertia die away
by itself (even if it makes you feel dizzy in your head :-). Because if the
plane meets sideway drag on both main and tail wheels, won't that force the
plane to tilt until the outside wing touches the ground? And if that ground is
uneven, I think it will stop the spin and pull the plane on its nose.
I have now idea, I am just asking.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception. Unfortunetly
it happened to me.
I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi test. It was
really hard to handle and wanted to go every where but staight. Run it down
the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail started to
drop and she darted off to the right and came up on the left wing, I slammed
down on the left rudder and recovered but not before the left wing was on the
gound and I was off the paved strip (30' wide). The Fox came back up on the mains
and I turned around and headed back to the hanger with one scuffed drooped
tip. I have never fixed it but have a small piece of duct tape on it to remind
me. That was the day I learned about over inflated tires. I had 22 lbs in each
tire. Now I get a little red faced every time I'm asked about the duct tape
but it reminds me to not get cocky.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
----- Original Message -----
From: michel<mailto:michel(at)online.no>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 3:11 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel
> Original Message From broschart <cfbflyer(at)localnet.com<mailto:cfbflyer(at)localnet.com>>
>not having flown since october when i landed the other day i did a 360
>around a runway light.
Charlie, that raises a question I have asked myself ... and now, I ask the
list:
If a ground loop is started, is it better to let the tailwheel free-castoring
or not? Somehow I feel that if it is too late to avoid it, it might be as well
that the tail offers no resitance on the ground and let the inertia die away
by itself (even if it makes you feel dizzy in your head :-). Because if the
plane meets sideway drag on both main and tail wheels, won't that force the
plane to tilt until the outside wing touches the ground? And if that ground is
uneven, I think it will stop the spin and pull the plane on its nose.
I have now idea, I am just asking.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
Just a few comments on slipping:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my problem with slipping is the
speed at flare. it too hot to touch down.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you are slipping at about 1.3 stall then when you kick rudder to
straighten up there should be no speed gain and no problem in landing within
normal parameters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IF you have to slip to get into the field, should you really
be going in there?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
When you are landing in bush locations ie lakes and field etc with
inhospitable approaches a slip is probably the safest way to land as it
allows you to maintain a high approach for safety and a guarantee that you
will make the landing site should the engine fail. Once you have verified
that you will make the site a slip lowers you to the tree line without any
forward build up of speed.
It is generally practiced by most Bush pilots in N.Canada.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
I believe Art Schol (Im sure I spelt it wrong) was also killed in a spin, and
he was world class .... in a Pitts .... hmmm
I have had some acro training in a Pitts, spins included. The world really
really is a blur !
But, a KF, or any plane? Unless it has been proven and properly documented
.... I aint gona do it!
Right tool for the right job.....
and I love flying my KF like a Cub ....
Have fun,
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michel <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
>===== Original Message From "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com> =====
> Now I get a little red faced every time I'm asked about the duct tape but it
> reminds me to not get cocky.
- "Hi, I am Dee and I am a ground-looper!"
- (everybody) "Hi Dee!"
:-)
Thanks for sharing, Dee. I have only 70 hours in my Kitfox and haven't ground
looped yet ... it is only a matter of time. I remember last year, when I was
doing my high-speed taxi training, I considered fixing some kind of
metal/small wheels at the tip of my drooped wings. I had just seen the video
of a Kitfox builder who, on his first flight, shaved half of his wing tip much
like you did. As long as there is no structural damage to the wing/plane, it's
only our pride that suffers. I am glad I have you, guys, to share this with,
and learn more about our plane we enjoy so much.
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy(at)visi.net> |
I was always taught that the castering tailwheel was essential to keeping a
looping plane from rolling over when the tail swings outside the mains.
Having been in a minor loop (thank God the grass was wet and the mains slid
a little - we stayed upright and the plane never even tipped) I can attest
to the fact that the wheel worked. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "michel" <michel(at)online.no>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel
>
> >===== Original Message From broschart <cfbflyer(at)localnet.com>
> >not having flown since october when i landed the other day i did a 360
> >around a runway light.
>
> Charlie, that raises a question I have asked myself ... and now, I ask the
> list:
>
> If a ground loop is started, is it better to let the tailwheel
free-castoring
> or not? Somehow I feel that if it is too late to avoid it, it might be as
well
> that the tail offers no resitance on the ground and let the inertia die
away
> by itself (even if it makes you feel dizzy in your head :-). Because if
the
> plane meets sideway drag on both main and tail wheels, won't that force
the
> plane to tilt until the outside wing touches the ground? And if that
ground is
> uneven, I think it will stop the spin and pull the plane on its nose.
> I have now idea, I am just asking.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W Duke <n981ms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Annual Inspection |
Does anyone have an annual inspection checklist. An IO 240 specific list would
be most helpful but any would be welcomed. I am starting with the Skystar supplied
"final inspection checklist"
Thanks in advance.
Maxwell
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Annual Inspection |
There is one at http://www.sportflight.com/kfb/. Just scroll down the page
and click on Annual Inspection Form. It is pretty complete and was
contributed by Don Lorentzen. It is in HTML, but you can import it into Word
or other word processor for modification.
Don Pearsall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop I am a member too! |
In fact, I was very lucky and tip didn't touch....
At about 50 hours ..I learned a LOT from that....
There was a good crosswind, paved runway and I had a 10,000 hour, mostly
taildragger pilot on board giving him a ride.... now that was embarrassing! But
he expliained what I had done wrong, best mistake I ever made.
Essentially, the tail was not planted and at low speeds, the fin is blanketed
from fuse when it is low, the plane now has a mind of its own.... trick is
to get the tail wheel on ground to simple have traction...
Keep that transtition to a minimium
Now have about 250 hours and been fine..:-)
Practice does help!!
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" <jeff.hays(at)aselia.com> |
| Subject: | Annual Inspection |
Get a copy of the IO-240B maintenance manual from TCM. It specifies
what to check.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: W Duke n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Kitfox-List: Annual Inspection
Does anyone have an annual inspection checklist. An IO 240 specific list
would be most helpful but any would be welcomed. I am starting with the
Skystar supplied "final inspection checklist"
Thanks in advance.
Maxwell
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
The closest I've been to a ground loop was when I landed on tarmac with a
flat tyre.
I was able to keep it straight (well on the runway) until we'd almost
stopped but at about 5mph the tail wheel free castored and the plane looped
completely and ended up facing the wrong way up the middle of the active.
Nice thing was the wing never really dipped and my passenger and I were able
to hold the wheel up and push CIGVW back to the taxi way
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was always taught that the castering tailwheel was essential to keeping a
looping plane from rolling over when the tail swings outside the mains.
Having been in a minor loop (thank God the grass was wet and the mains slid
a little - we stayed upright and the plane never even tipped) I can attest
to the fact that the wheel worked. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "michel" <michel(at)online.no>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop D 18, wow |
What a great story .....
I agree letting your guard down could not have been said better. Been there
BTW, I love the challenge of a TG. To be honest, slipping and landing my
little KF in a crosswind in my short strip gives me a lot of satisfaction.
We are so fortunate,
Best,
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> |
All of a sudden, every email that I am getting from the list has an
attachment. I haven't opened any, but they appear to be the message. ???
Randy Series 5/7 912S N10NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Lina" <airlina(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kifox Trailer PRICE REDUCTION |
Kevin, Still have the trailer for sale?
----- Original Message -----
From: <N35LS(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kifox Trailer PRICE REDUCTION
>
> I've reduced the price of the Kitfox trailer to $1200, I live in N.
> California, can still deliver for costs.
> Kevin Johnson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
Randy, It must be just your system. I have not gotten any attachments via
the list, and in fact, the Matronics mailing system strips all attachments.
It just sends out text with very little formatting.
I bet it has something to do with your mail client settings and conversion
from the straight text of the list mail to HTML. Something must have
happened to the settings today. Check them and let us know if you still get
the attachments.
Don Pearsall
Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Dresser tires... |
I tried Google to find them ..... no listing does some one know howt o
get in touch with them RE the KF 2 tires?
Thanks!
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dresser tires... |
Look on Landings.com I know they advertise on it.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aerobatics(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Dresser tires...
>
> I tried Google to find them ..... no listing does some one know howt o
> get in touch with them RE the KF 2 tires?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dave KF 2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Dresser tires... |
Try Desser.. http://www.desser.com/
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Dresser tires...
I tried Google to find them ..... no listing does some one know howt o
get in touch with them RE the KF 2 tires?
Thanks!
Dave KF 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
As I write this, our blue model 5 kitfox is being taxied for takeoff by it's
new owner. He's headed home to south east Texas. My wife and I are very sad
to see it go as we have had many great adventures with it over the last 5
years and nearly 1000 hours.
But we are not leaving the kitfox family; we purchased Vic Jacko's model 5
with Lycoming 0-235 last September.
There he goes.....
His name is Terry and he'll be joining the list and introducing himself
after he gets home. Give him a warm welcome.
Cliff
Erie, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Blackberry <tblackballs(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | series 6 nosewheel documentation. |
Would anyone have the installation documentation for installing the
castoring nose wheel to a series 6 trigear kitfox?
I am installing a series 6 nosegear to my model 1V 1200 and would really
appreciate it if someone could email me
The installation instructions from the builders manual . I am also
fitting the Grove aluminium spring maingear, any
Pics or information on the exact placement of this would also be
appreciated.If anyone has done this modification
I would love to see any pics and seek any advice you may offer on the
subject.
Thanking all in advance for any information received my email address is
tblackballs(at)bigpond.com
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kifox Trailer PRICE REDUCTION |
The trailer has been sold. Thanks for the inquiry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: bye bye kitfox |
In a message dated 4/20/04 5:22:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com writes:
But we are not leaving the KitFox family
This is good Cliff, enjoy your postings
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
One chapter closes and another opens......
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud
Subject: Kitfox-List: bye bye kitfox
As I write this, our blue model 5 kitfox is being taxied for takeoff by it's
new owner. He's headed home to south east Texas. My wife and I are very sad
to see it go as we have had many great adventures with it over the last 5
years and nearly 1000 hours.
But we are not leaving the kitfox family; we purchased Vic Jacko's model 5
with Lycoming 0-235 last September.
There he goes.....
His name is Terry and he'll be joining the list and introducing himself
after he gets home. Give him a warm welcome.
Cliff
Erie, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeRoy staley <itis50(at)yahoo.com> |
Has anyone a set of the wing braces for a 1200 kitfox
4? Or maybe a drawing to make my own. This relates to
when the wings are folded for towing.
__________________________________
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flier" <FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hey LeRoy,
They're simple to make. I made mine and a friend's
from EMT conduit (1/2" if I recall). Just flatten
the ends, bend a lip for the spar to rest on, and
drill to fit the spar pin -- then a bolt through the
front of the bottom lift strut fitting. I made'em
such that you lift the spar just a tad to take the
pressure off the front of the wing. They work well.
I wrapped yellow tape on mine so they're easily seen
before you start to unfold the wings.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: LeRoy staley <itis50(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: wing braces
>
>Has anyone a set of the wing braces for a 1200 kitfox
>4? Or maybe a drawing to make my own. This relates to
>when the wings are folded for towing.
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
>
>
>_-
======================================================
==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
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http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
list
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>_-
======================================================
==================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop I am a member too! |
In a message dated 4/20/2004 3:47:40 PM Central Standard Time,
michel(at)online.no writes:
> the fin is blanketed from fuse when it is low
>
> Yes, an important point. But I think my model 3 is a bit better there than
> you
> model 2, isn't it?
>
> Cheers,
>
Yes, it is better wana trade? :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com |
A year ago Miguel past over. He died in an accident in
Chapala Lake, Western Mexico with his friend Alonso
Ruiz in a Serie 6. His friends in Mexico miss them
both. I cant belive Miguel is gone when I watch the
Alaska 2002 DVD. There will be some services in
Guadalajara, San Luis Potos and Mexico City.
Francisco Icaza
Classic IV
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
________________________________________________________________________________
Mine has a set that came with it but wouldn't part with them. Simple to
make. Use a piece of 3/8 inch water pipe and weld tabs on the lower end to
match the strut attach points and a piece of tubing similiar to the front
spar attach points on the other end. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "LeRoy staley" <itis50(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: wing braces
>
> Has anyone a set of the wing braces for a 1200 kitfox
> 4? Or maybe a drawing to make my own. This relates to
> when the wings are folded for towing.
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cooling system on a 582 |
I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone run a
thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling system on a 582 |
I know you probably won't try this...but I'll go ahead and offer it anyway.
Remove all the coolant. Replace it with water only. Now go fly it and note
your temps. They will be significanly lower. Now decide what is acceptable
temp and begin adding anti freeze to the water in increments until you've
reached the desired temp.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tc9008(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
>
> I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone
run a
> thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwight purdy <dpurdy(at)comteck.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling system on a 582 |
It will run hotter with a thermostat.
Dwight
>
>I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone run a
>thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cooling system on a 582 |
I have a thermostat in stock. If you are interested contact me off the list.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
Powerful Parental Controls | From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop |
Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Previous writer stated;
> No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
Unfortunetly it happened to me.
> I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi test.
It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight. Run
it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail
started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30' wide)........
All:
I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up on
it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were on
floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every which
direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for me
as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
surprised!
Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right) severely
as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able to
fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
this Avid.
So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
(somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking tire
tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop recoveries
at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out the
problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to remove
the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it was
now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so he
could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor was
an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the Avid
handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back into
use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told him).
And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
wrecked the airplane.
Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not limited
the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was activating
the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air. I
initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from the
tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to something.
Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all had
a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight down
the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on the
ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right. So
as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another put
you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going to
swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite rudder
(it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping problems
the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I had
a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard to
land. It should't be.
My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you avoid
that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | torgemor <torgemor(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
Hi Paul,
Real good information.
Thanks
Torgeir.
>===== Original Message From "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> =====
>
>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
>
>
>Previous writer stated;
>
>> No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
>Unfortunetly it happened to me.
>> I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi test.
>It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight. Run
>it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail
>started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
>wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
>left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30' wide)........
>
>
>All:
>
>I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
>instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up on
>it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
>same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were on
>floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every which
>direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
>little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for me
>as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
>surprised!
>
>Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
>land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
>ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right) severely
>as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
>wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able to
>fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
>couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
>wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
>taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
>this Avid.
>
>So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
>(somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
>decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking tire
>tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop recoveries
>at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
>after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out the
>problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to remove
>the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it was
>now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
>owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
>together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
>instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so he
>could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor was
>an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the Avid
>handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
>They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
>problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back into
>use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told him).
>And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
>wrecked the airplane.
>
>Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not limited
>the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
>better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was activating
>the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air. I
>initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
>the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from the
>tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to something.
>
>Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all had
>a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
>That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
>and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight down
>the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
>deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on the
>ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right. So
>as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another put
>you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going to
>swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite rudder
>(it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
>ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
>limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
>difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
>rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
>looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
>are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
>
>So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping problems
>the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I had
>a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
>before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard to
>land. It should't be.
>
>My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you avoid
>that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Wisconsin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop |
Thanks Paul, This post is positively a keeper.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
>
>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
>
>
> Previous writer stated;
>
> > No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
> Unfortunetly it happened to me.
> > I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi
test.
> It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight.
Run
> it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail
> started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
> wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
> left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30'
wide)........
>
>
> All:
>
> I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
> instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up
on
> it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
> same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were
on
> floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every which
> direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
> little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for
me
> as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
> surprised!
>
> Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
> land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
> ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right)
severely
> as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
> wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able to
> fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
> couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
> wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
> taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
> this Avid.
>
> So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
> (somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
> decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking
tire
> tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop recoveries
> at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
> after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out
the
> problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to
remove
> the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it
was
> now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
> owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
> together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
> instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so
he
> could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor
was
> an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the
Avid
> handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
> They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
> problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back
into
> use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told
him).
> And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
> wrecked the airplane.
>
> Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not
limited
> the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
> better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was
activating
> the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air.
I
> initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
> the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from
the
> tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to
something.
>
> Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all
had
> a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
> That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
> and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight
down
> the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
> deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on the
> ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right. So
> as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another
put
> you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going
to
> swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite rudder
> (it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
> ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
> limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
> difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
> rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
> looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
> are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
>
> So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping
problems
> the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I
had
> a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
> before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard to
> land. It should't be.
>
> My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you
avoid
> that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Wisconsin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
Paul,
I want to run something by you and the list that I saw the other day. The
tail wheel chains on this particular aircraft were sloppy loose, I mean
LOOSE. I asked him why and basically he said the same thing as you with one
exception. At that moment of touch down the TW tracks strait and the rudder
can be off a few degrees and you can not get it to unlock in flight. This
is a very experienced pilot named Garfield. One of the best TW landings I
have ever experienced is the one he did.
Entered the left down wind on a 180deg for a tight pattern 500 high @ 210
MPH about 1/3 down the wrong end, after scrubbing a little of the excess
energy off on the turns to down wind, base and, and final(This is Montana!).
We touched down on the numbers and the gear just beautifully compressed, "I
uncompelled her." was the comment from the front seat.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Previous writer stated;
> No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
Unfortunetly it happened to me.
> I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi test.
It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight. Run
it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail
started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30' wide)........
All:
I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up on
it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were on
floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every which
direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for me
as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
surprised!
Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right) severely
as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able to
fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
this Avid.
So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
(somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking tire
tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop recoveries
at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out the
problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to remove
the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it was
now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so he
could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor was
an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the Avid
handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back into
use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told him).
And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
wrecked the airplane.
Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not limited
the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was activating
the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air. I
initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from the
tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to something.
Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all had
a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight down
the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on the
ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right. So
as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another put
you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going to
swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite rudder
(it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping problems
the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I had
a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard to
land. It should't be.
My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you avoid
that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent write-up
I'd like to limit it.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Previous writer stated;
> No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
Unfortunetly it happened to me.
> I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi test.
It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight. Run
it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the tail
started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30' wide)........
All:
I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up on
it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were on
floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every which
direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for me
as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
surprised!
Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right) severely
as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able to
fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
this Avid.
So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
(somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking tire
tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop recoveries
at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out the
problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to remove
the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it was
now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so he
could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor was
an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the Avid
handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back into
use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told him).
And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
wrecked the airplane.
Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not limited
the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was activating
the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air. I
initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from the
tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to something.
Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all had
a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight down
the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on the
ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right. So
as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another put
you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going to
swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite rudder
(it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping problems
the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I had
a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard to
land. It should't be.
My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you avoid
that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | cooling system on a 582 |
My new (3 hours) 582 blue head KF is running around 180 to 185 also and I'm
using the Rotax expansion chamber and have the cooling system set up exactly
as the Rotax manual shows with the exception of a strait water outlet
instead of the 90 degree water outlet. I'm currently running my vent line of
the front of the engine but may try the rear to see if that lowers the
temps.
Here are my thoughts on this: (Are any of them valid)
1). On a "582 blue head" the muffler and the exhaust manifold may be heating
up the return water before it enters the water jacket. The blue head water
pump outlet is facing towards the front of the engine which requires the
radiator hose to be routed between the exhaust manifold and the muffler
which will heat up the radiator hose.
2). Also on a "582 blue head" there is a radiator hose that hugs the rear of
the engine block which may also raise the water temperature.
3). The distance and the elevation of the radiator may be great for the pump
to circulate the water at the appropriate rate.
I've already replaced most of my ant-freeze with distilled water but will
replace all of the ant-freeze.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tc9008(at)aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone run
a
thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com>
Subject: Tail wheel question?RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
>
>
> How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
>
> My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
> applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent
write-up
> I'd like to limit it.
>
>
> Robert
>
One way to accomplish this, which has proven very succesful for me, was to
reduce the "resolution" on the tailwheel. This methed keeps it "locked"
longer by reducing the amount of leverage the rudder "tiller" has on the
tailwheel. I drilled the spring attachment holes 1" inboard from the
origionals. I'm not sure if this will aid your particular situation or not
but it sure helped mine.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cooling system on a 582 |
In a message dated 4/21/04 10:00:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com writes:
I've already replaced most of my ant-freeze with distilled water but will
replace all of the ant-freeze.
Careful there -- In my opinion--don't run it to long without some type of
anticorrosion!
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop |
Loose springs = easy breakout.
Tight springs = hard breakout.
Basically you should keep the springs snug with no slack.
Darrel
> How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
>
> My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
> applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent
write-up
> I'd like to limit it.
>
> Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | cooling system on a 582 |
Thanks Elbie. I'll slowly add back anti-freeze and watch the temps til they
are in range.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RiteAngle3(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: 582 H2O temp RE: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
In a message dated 4/21/04 10:00:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com writes:
I've already replaced most of my ant-freeze with distilled water but will
replace all of the ant-freeze.
Careful there -- In my opinion--don't run it to long without some type of
anticorrosion!
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | I'll try itRE: Tail wheel question? |
> How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
>
> My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
> applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent
write-up
> I'd like to limit it.
>
>
> Robert
>
One way to accomplish this, which has proven very succesful for me, was to
reduce the "resolution" on the tailwheel. This methed keeps it "locked"
longer by reducing the amount of leverage the rudder "tiller" has on the
tailwheel. I drilled the spring attachment holes 1" inboard from the
origionals. I'm not sure if this will aid your particular situation or not
but it sure helped mine.
Steve
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hi Steve, Thanks for the information. I'll drill new holes and try it out.
Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
Thanks Darrel,
I'll make sure they are snug.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Subject: Re: Tail wheel question?RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Loose springs = easy breakout.
Tight springs = hard breakout.
Basically you should keep the springs snug with no slack.
Darrel
> How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
>
> My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
> applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent
write-up
> I'd like to limit it.
>
> Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | cooling system on a 582 |
Robert
I also have the same set up as you and during the first 6 or so hours I also
experienced high coolant temps.
I lowered my rad by 1" and maintained my summer coolant ratio at 70%
distilled water and 30% Havelene Antifreeze - this reduced my temps to 175
on extended climb outs and about 165 in Cruise.
I think the combination of these changes with the normal heat reduction
after engine run in addressed the overheating issues.
There is no doubt that lowering the rad by about 1" really helps as a friend
of mine had the same problem with his model 4 and he added some 1" Sq
aluminum tube between his rad and the floor and his heating problems also
evaporated. "excuse the pun".
The coolant ratio will also have an effect on the coolant temp but I would
be careful about lowering this ratio too much as you will lose your
corrosion protection.
My coolant hosing is also complicated as I route from the front of the
water pump forward to the front of the engine then down and back between the
base of the engine and the muffler to the rad inlet. From the other side of
the rad I go forward and up through the filler gooseneck to the thermostat
housing on the engine. The top outlet on the engine routes through a
pre-formed hose to the back of the engine and down to the secondary inlet on
the water pump. I intend to simplify this and can email you a sketch off
list if you would like.
I think you will find that if you lower your rad slightly and persevere with
an extended break in of a few more hours your problems will go away.
Best regards,
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
My new (3 hours) 582 blue head KF is running around 180 to 185 also and I'm
using the Rotax expansion chamber and have the cooling system set up exactly
as the Rotax manual shows with the exception of a strait water outlet
instead of the 90 degree water outlet. I'm currently running my vent line of
the front of the engine but may try the rear to see if that lowers the
temps.
Here are my thoughts on this: (Are any of them valid)
1). On a "582 blue head" the muffler and the exhaust manifold may be heating
up the return water before it enters the water jacket. The blue head water
pump outlet is facing towards the front of the engine which requires the
radiator hose to be routed between the exhaust manifold and the muffler
which will heat up the radiator hose.
2). Also on a "582 blue head" there is a radiator hose that hugs the rear of
the engine block which may also raise the water temperature.
3). The distance and the elevation of the radiator may be great for the pump
to circulate the water at the appropriate rate.
I've already replaced most of my ant-freeze with distilled water but will
replace all of the ant-freeze.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tc9008(at)aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone run
a
thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com> |
| Subject: | Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders |
Hey all,
Has anyone considered building their own engine monitoring device using
a PLC or even a microcontroller ?
It seems like it would provide the functionality of monitoring all the
engine functions, and could even backups for some of the other flight
systems as well - altimeter, etc. They are pretty light weight, and you
could build the system with drag and drop programming for about $750 -
$1000 with a nice tft screen.
To all the Subaru builders & pilots out there - what have you used for
engine monitoring and mounting ?. I have just gotten my EJ22 (thanks
again Neal) and redrive and am now faced with the mounting and setup.
Pictures would be great if anyone has some handy.
Any ideas on manifolds ? Ecu's to use or not to use ? exhaust system
layout ? cooling ? props ?
Thanks for everyone's help - this is an invaluable resource
Best regards
Phil Cowley
Series 5 taildragger / EJ22 / SPG redrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com> |
| Subject: | central california DAR inspector |
One more for the infinite knowledge out there,
I purchased my project about %70 percent complete (just about ready to
cover) and need to know who to contact about inspecting it. I would like
to get the repairman's cert. for the aircraft. I plan on starting at
step one and checking all the work anyway, so it should not be too much
of a problem.
I'm located in San Luis Obispo, Ca, and am wondering if anyone knows who
to talk to about this - or has any tips on how to go forward.
Thanks again
Phil Cowley
Series 5 taildragger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: central california DAR inspector |
There is no longer a requirement for a pre-cover inspection, but it wouldn't
be a bad idea to photograph it completely for your builder's log and 2.
Contact your local EAA chapter and hook up with a building advisor.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: central california DAR inspector
>
> One more for the infinite knowledge out there,
>
> I purchased my project about %70 percent complete (just about ready to
> cover) and need to know who to contact about inspecting it. I would like
> to get the repairman's cert. for the aircraft. I plan on starting at
> step one and checking all the work anyway, so it should not be too much
> of a problem.
>
> I'm located in San Luis Obispo, Ca, and am wondering if anyone knows who
> to talk to about this - or has any tips on how to go forward.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 taildragger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: central california DAR inspector |
Phil, In my humble opinion, just about ready to cover is far less than 70%.
When nearing the completion phase of mine the mantra was 90% done and 90% to
go. With what you have planned, covering, wiring, engine installation, you
should be a shoe in for the airman's certificate. Again, in my opinion.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: central california DAR inspector
>
> One more for the infinite knowledge out there,
>
> I purchased my project about %70 percent complete (just about ready to
> cover) and need to know who to contact about inspecting it. I would like
> to get the repairman's cert. for the aircraft. I plan on starting at
> step one and checking all the work anyway, so it should not be too much
> of a problem.
>
> I'm located in San Luis Obispo, Ca, and am wondering if anyone knows who
> to talk to about this - or has any tips on how to go forward.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 taildragger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Zakreski <szakreski(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders |
I used the Rocky Mountain Instruments Micromonitor. see
http://www.rkymtn.com/
I would use it again. I'm not the kind of guy that eyeballs the instruments
continuously while flying, so the preset limits and audio and light warning
is perfect for me.
SteveZ
Calgary
IV/NSI/CAP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Cowley
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders
Hey all,
Has anyone considered building their own engine monitoring device using
a PLC or even a microcontroller ?
It seems like it would provide the functionality of monitoring all the
engine functions, and could even backups for some of the other flight
systems as well - altimeter, etc. They are pretty light weight, and you
could build the system with drag and drop programming for about $750 -
$1000 with a nice tft screen.
To all the Subaru builders & pilots out there - what have you used for
engine monitoring and mounting ?. I have just gotten my EJ22 (thanks
again Neal) and redrive and am now faced with the mounting and setup.
Pictures would be great if anyone has some handy.
Any ideas on manifolds ? Ecu's to use or not to use ? exhaust system
layout ? cooling ? props ?
Thanks for everyone's help - this is an invaluable resource
Best regards
Phil Cowley
Series 5 taildragger / EJ22 / SPG redrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Zakreski <szakreski(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | tail wheel/ground loop |
That explains it. I'm nothing special when it comes to piloting, (not bad,
but nothing special) but I have never even come close to ground looping. I
suspect it is because each of my springs has tension all the time. It takes
a determined kick to get the tailwheel to break loose. I also have a
battery mounted in the tail which might help my situation.
SteveZ
IV/NSI/CAP
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Subject: Re: Tail wheel question?RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
Loose springs = easy breakout.
Tight springs = hard breakout.
Basically you should keep the springs snug with no slack.
Darrel
> How do I adjust my Maule tail wheel to limit the full swivel option?
>
> My tail wheel currently stays locked until a certain amount of pressure is
> applied and then it swivels freely. After reading Paul's excellent
write-up
> I'd like to limit it.
>
> Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "roger augenstein" <raugenstein(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders |
Phil, My EJ 22 installation is on sportflight.com-engines. You can e-mail me
at raugenstein(at)fuse.net if you have further questions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders
>
> Hey all,
>
> Has anyone considered building their own engine monitoring device using
> a PLC or even a microcontroller ?
>
> It seems like it would provide the functionality of monitoring all the
> engine functions, and could even backups for some of the other flight
> systems as well - altimeter, etc. They are pretty light weight, and you
> could build the system with drag and drop programming for about $750 -
> $1000 with a nice tft screen.
>
> To all the Subaru builders & pilots out there - what have you used for
> engine monitoring and mounting ?. I have just gotten my EJ22 (thanks
> again Neal) and redrive and am now faced with the mounting and setup.
> Pictures would be great if anyone has some handy.
>
> Any ideas on manifolds ? Ecu's to use or not to use ? exhaust system
> layout ? cooling ? props ?
>
> Thanks for everyone's help - this is an invaluable resource
>
> Best regards
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 taildragger / EJ22 / SPG redrive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cooling system on a 582 |
Please send me a sketch of your system.
Thanks
Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | central california DAR inspector |
70% done and 130% to go.... IMHO Wouldn't bring it to anybody's
attention.... Just review what was done, re-do what you don't like, document
it what has been done and move on with the project. In the end you will
sign the affidavit stating that you are the builder and have built a
majority of the aircraft for recreational or educational purposes. You will
also make the necessary log book entry. The DAR does not issue the
repairmans certificate.. You will fill our the 8610 Airman Certificate
and/or Rating Application after the inspection is done.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Cowley
Subject: Kitfox-List: central california DAR inspector
One more for the infinite knowledge out there,
I purchased my project about %70 percent complete (just about ready to
cover) and need to know who to contact about inspecting it. I would like
to get the repairman's cert. for the aircraft. I plan on starting at
step one and checking all the work anyway, so it should not be too much
of a problem.
I'm located in San Luis Obispo, Ca, and am wondering if anyone knows who
to talk to about this - or has any tips on how to go forward.
Thanks again
Phil Cowley
Series 5 taildragger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | central california DAR inspector |
What do you think Lowell.... 90% done and still 10% to go..... and I have
over 80 hours on it now. OK maybe 95% and 5%.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: central california DAR inspector
Phil, In my humble opinion, just about ready to cover is far less than 70%.
When nearing the completion phase of mine the mantra was 90% done and 90% to
go. With what you have planned, covering, wiring, engine installation, you
should be a shoe in for the airman's certificate. Again, in my opinion.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: central california DAR inspector
>
> One more for the infinite knowledge out there,
>
> I purchased my project about %70 percent complete (just about ready to
> cover) and need to know who to contact about inspecting it. I would like
> to get the repairman's cert. for the aircraft. I plan on starting at
> step one and checking all the work anyway, so it should not be too much
> of a problem.
>
> I'm located in San Luis Obispo, Ca, and am wondering if anyone knows who
> to talk to about this - or has any tips on how to go forward.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 taildragger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:percent completed |
Just remember the "experienced builders" words Phil
"It will fly on Thursday"
Just never mention week, month or year :-)
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Veneck <edveneck(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [ProtectOurPlanes] EAA Sport Pilot Petition |
Not sure how many of you on the list have seen this,
but I think it is worth reading and signing.
Thanks
Ed Veneck
EAA 0183748
Saa 1602
--- Noel wrote:
> To: ProtectOurPlanes(at)yahoogroups.com
> From: "Noel" <protectourplanes(at)yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:48:47 -0000
> Subject: [ProtectOurPlanes] EAA Sport Pilot Petition
>
> Greetings, fellow aviation enthusiast:
>
> In case you haven't heard, EAA is circulating a
> petition for
> the "final push" to get the Sport Pilot Rule through
> OMB. See story
> below:
>
> Sign EAA's On-Line Sport Pilot Petition! April 15,
> 2004 - This week
> at the Sun 'n Fun EAA Fly-In, EAA kicked off a
> petition drive where
> aviation enthusiasts can voice their support for the
> Sport
> Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft rule. This petition is
> being forwarded to
> the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, indicating
> the widespread
> support the measure has in the aviation community
> and that OMB
> should expedite its final approval.
> Even those EAA members and aviation enthusiasts who
> can't attend
> Sun 'n Fun this year can join the petition. Simply
> go to
> http://www.eaa.org/govt/petition.asp and follow the
> simple
> directions.
> I would greatly appreciate your typing in this
> website link and
> electronically signing the petition. It is urgent
> that this be
> accomplished within the next couple days. It will
> only take you 120
> seconds to read and "sign" the petition - but it
> will "speak
> volumes" in our message to the OMB.
>
> Bob Warner
> EAA Executive Vice President
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris(at)intuit.com> |
| Subject: | Gary's cooling circuit design 582 Blue |
Hi Gary,
Thank you very much for the blue print sketches of the new coolant circuit
you designed. You are very smart to have come up with this great idea and
I'm looking forward to implementing it on my plane as soon as possible.
I can see many benefits of your new design such as increased water flow,
reduction of radiator hose that comes in close proximity to the exhaust
manifold and muffler, better air circulation to the rear of the engine,
increased air flow over the radiator hose, more room at the rear of the
engine, and it looks a lot better. You did a great job!
Question????????????
Can the original Rotax hose that is routed along the rear of the engine from
the thermostat inlet circuit to the water pump inlet be used when it is
moved to the front of the engine, or is it too short?
Thanks Again,
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: RE: 582 H2O temp RE: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
Robert
I also have the same set up as you and during the first 6 or so hours I also
experienced high coolant temps.
I lowered my rad by 1" and maintained my summer coolant ratio at 70%
distilled water and 30% Havelene Antifreeze - this reduced my temps to 175
on extended climb outs and about 165 in Cruise.
I think the combination of these changes with the normal heat reduction
after engine run in addressed the overheating issues.
There is no doubt that lowering the rad by about 1" really helps as a friend
of mine had the same problem with his model 4 and he added some 1" Sq
aluminum tube between his rad and the floor and his heating problems also
evaporated. "excuse the pun".
The coolant ratio will also have an effect on the coolant temp but I would
be careful about lowering this ratio too much as you will lose your
corrosion protection.
My coolant hosing is also complicated as I route from the front of the
water pump forward to the front of the engine then down and back between the
base of the engine and the muffler to the rad inlet. From the other side of
the rad I go forward and up through the filler gooseneck to the thermostat
housing on the engine. The top outlet on the engine routes through a
pre-formed hose to the back of the engine and down to the secondary inlet on
the water pump. I intend to simplify this and can email you a sketch off
list if you would like.
I think you will find that if you lower your rad slightly and persevere with
an extended break in of a few more hours your problems will go away.
Best regards,
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
My new (3 hours) 582 blue head KF is running around 180 to 185 also and I'm
using the Rotax expansion chamber and have the cooling system set up exactly
as the Rotax manual shows with the exception of a strait water outlet
instead of the 90 degree water outlet. I'm currently running my vent line of
the front of the engine but may try the rear to see if that lowers the
temps.
Here are my thoughts on this: (Are any of them valid)
1). On a "582 blue head" the muffler and the exhaust manifold may be heating
up the return water before it enters the water jacket. The blue head water
pump outlet is facing towards the front of the engine which requires the
radiator hose to be routed between the exhaust manifold and the muffler
which will heat up the radiator hose.
2). Also on a "582 blue head" there is a radiator hose that hugs the rear of
the engine block which may also raise the water temperature.
3). The distance and the elevation of the radiator may be great for the pump
to circulate the water at the appropriate rate.
I've already replaced most of my ant-freeze with distilled water but will
replace all of the ant-freeze.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tc9008(at)aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: cooling system on a 582
I can't get my kf to cool down. It stays at 185 degrees . Does everyone run
a
thermostat and where is the best place to get one.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Sport Pilot Update |
The FAA says it will have a revised version of the Sport Pilot/Light-Sport
Aircraft Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) in front of the Office of
Management and Budget (OMB) in the next week or so. FAA spokeswoman Allison
Duquette told AVweb Wednesday that the goal is to get the rule out "as soon
as possible." About three weeks ago, the FAA withdrew the NPRM from the OMB,
which must sign off on it, after the OMB raised concerns about parts of the
proposed rule. The hang-ups have never been made public. "I can't discuss
that because we are in rulemaking," said Duquette. She said she doesn't know
how long the OMB will need to assess the revised NPRM but it has not placed
any time limits on the process.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graeme Toft" <msm(at)byterocky.net> |
I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped someone might
be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our 582 for the
first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the percentage of
coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C which appears to
be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming from. I know you guys
fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our ambient temps. Is there
a starting point from where you increase or decrease the amount of coolant to
water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running in an engine.
Thanks to all who have made contact with us during the rebuild of our Mk1. We have
had a remarkable response and the advice was generally spot on. We have even
had the total manual scanned and mailed along with a video (Hi Ray). The importance
of the Kitfox list cannot be overstated. For people like ourselves it
is the only guidance available to us.
Cheers
Graeme Toft
Yeppoon
Queensland
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Miguel Ramirez |
Francisco,
I have watched the entire video he created about five times and it
instantly puts me back there with Miguel and the rest of the group. It
must have took him many, many hours of editing and adding the background
music that was so appropriate. He always had the camera running both on
the ground and in the air. He was very talented, intelligent and all
around good guy to pal around with. Parts of it are very tough for me
to watch because I know the good times we had together are over. He
wanted desperately to make the Bahamas trip and tried to convince me to
extend it to South America and then back up to Mexico. I know a lot of
his friends in Mexico like you and a couple of those I have met and
many others I have not met, have lost a cherished friend, but there are
some of us north of the border who had traveled with Miguel for several
weeks that have also felt that loss deeply.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>A year ago Miguel past over. He died in an accident in
>Chapala Lake, Western Mexico with his friend Alonso
>Ruiz in a Serie 6. His friends in Mexico miss them
>both. I cant belive Miguel is gone when I watch the
>Alaska 2002 DVD. There will be some services in
>Guadalajara, San Luis Potos and Mexico City.
>
>
>Francisco Icaza
>Classic IV
>
>La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" <randlekids(at)lewiscounty.com> |
| Subject: | Kitfox 5 For Sale |
I thought I would just put the word out again that my Kitfox 5 is still available for sale. So if you know anyone out there interested I would appreciate you passing the word. It has conventional bungee gear, bump cowl, speedster fairings and NSI firewall forward. I have reduced the price to $31,500 OBO. It is presently advertised on www.barnstormers.com, www.controller.com, and www.generalaviationnews.com
I just can't afford two airplanes!
Steve Lorenz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AlbertaIV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling system |
I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped someone
might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our 582 for
the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the percentage
of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C which appears
to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming from. I know you
guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our ambient temps. Is
there a starting point from where you increase or decrease the amount of coolant
to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running in an engine.
I would stick to the 50/50 mixture as recommended by the specs. During
the runup, you will probably be able to get through half the procedure without
any overheat problems. During the higher RPM's you will probably need to
provide a spray of cold water on the radiator. I rigged a piece of alum tubing
(about) 2' long with a garden hose attachment on one end. I crimped the other
end of the tubing and drilled small holes along the length. Temporarily attach
the assembly so it will spray on the radiator. Worked great.
I would always stick to the 50/50 mixture unless you get to a point where
you need to drop the temps. I still believe that a good designed radiator
scoop is better than lowering the coolant ratio and more effective.
Don Smythe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
Graeme
I'm originally from Broken Hill so I have an idea of the temps you are
talking about. Now I live in Canada so although we get the cold winters we
still get reasonably warm summers (mid 30's)
When I played with the coolant ratios I noticed about a 5 degree temp
between 10% coolant and 50% Coolant so it wasn't a lot. I really wouldn't go
much lower than 20% as you would only be chasing a couple of degrees and
risking corrosion problems.
I gained a lot more by just lowering the rad.
During run in with a 582 it's not uncommon to have to run water over the
outside of the rad to keep temps in check due to the low air flow and
"tight" engine. Once you're in the air the temps will drop a lot and after a
few hours flying they really start to settle down.
Regards
Gary
>>>>>>
I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped
someone might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our
582 for the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the
percentage of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C
which appears to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming
from. I know you guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our
ambient temps. Is there a starting point from where you increase or decrease
the amount of coolant to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running
in an engine.
Thanks to all who have made contact with us during the rebuild of our Mk1.
We have had a remarkable response and the advice was generally spot on. We
have even had the total manual scanned and mailed along with a video (Hi
Ray). The importance of the Kitfox list cannot be overstated. For people
like ourselves it is the only guidance available to us.
Cheers
Graeme Toft
Yeppoon
Queensland
>>>>>>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skyflyte(at)comcast.net |
Let's not forget that the antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the water pump. No
glycol, no lubrication. I would not recommend using just distilled water, or
a low ratio of antifreeze - distilled water. If the water temperature is too
high, lower the radiator, get a bigger radiator, or force more air thru the
existing one.
Mike Cannon N490MC
>
> Graeme
>
> I'm originally from Broken Hill so I have an idea of the temps you are
> talking about. Now I live in Canada so although we get the cold winters we
> still get reasonably warm summers (mid 30's)
>
> When I played with the coolant ratios I noticed about a 5 degree temp
> between 10% coolant and 50% Coolant so it wasn't a lot. I really wouldn't go
> much lower than 20% as you would only be chasing a couple of degrees and
> risking corrosion problems.
>
> I gained a lot more by just lowering the rad.
>
> During run in with a 582 it's not uncommon to have to run water over the
> outside of the rad to keep temps in check due to the low air flow and
> "tight" engine. Once you're in the air the temps will drop a lot and after a
> few hours flying they really start to settle down.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> >>>>>>
>
> I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped
> someone might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our
> 582 for the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the
> percentage of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C
> which appears to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming
> from. I know you guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our
> ambient temps. Is there a starting point from where you increase or decrease
> the amount of coolant to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running
> in an engine.
>
> Thanks to all who have made contact with us during the rebuild of our Mk1.
> We have had a remarkable response and the advice was generally spot on. We
> have even had the total manual scanned and mailed along with a video (Hi
> Ray). The importance of the Kitfox list cannot be overstated. For people
> like ourselves it is the only guidance available to us.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme Toft
> Yeppoon
> Queensland
> >>>>>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "roger augenstein" <raugenstein(at)fuse.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders |
I bought my engine instruments from JEGGS an auto store. They have been Ok.
Roger KY EJ 22
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley(at)virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders
>
> Hey all,
>
> Has anyone considered building their own engine monitoring device using
> a PLC or even a microcontroller ?
>
> It seems like it would provide the functionality of monitoring all the
> engine functions, and could even backups for some of the other flight
> systems as well - altimeter, etc. They are pretty light weight, and you
> could build the system with drag and drop programming for about $750 -
> $1000 with a nice tft screen.
>
> To all the Subaru builders & pilots out there - what have you used for
> engine monitoring and mounting ?. I have just gotten my EJ22 (thanks
> again Neal) and redrive and am now faced with the mounting and setup.
> Pictures would be great if anyone has some handy.
>
> Any ideas on manifolds ? Ecu's to use or not to use ? exhaust system
> layout ? cooling ? props ?
>
> Thanks for everyone's help - this is an invaluable resource
>
> Best regards
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 taildragger / EJ22 / SPG redrive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AlbertaIV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling system |
In a message dated 4/23/04 8:13:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
skyflyte(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> Let's not forget that the antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the water pump.
> No glycol, no lubrication. I would not recommend using just distilled
> water, or a low ratio of antifreeze - distilled water. If the water temperature
> is too high, lower the radiator, get a bigger radiator, or force more air
> thru the existing one.
> Mike Cannon N490MC
>
Mike,
I think this is good advice on the coolant mixture. Stay with the
recommended mixture of 50/50 and redesign the system if necessary to keep the temps
in check. I found that lowering the rad an inch or two does little to fix the
problem. However, if you lower the rad about 4 inches and move it fwd of the
cowl exit air, you get the desired results times 10.
I just came in from flying with the OAT's about 85 degrees (F). My
coolant went to 183 on climbout and had to step climb to reduce temps. Last
summer, I had the radiator positioned as I mentioned above (temporary) and all
was
perfect. I took out the temp rig but will have to reinstall it soon and make
it more permanent.
Don Smythe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | I'am Through With Sun N' Fun |
To The List,
I have had it with Sun N' Fun. I have flown my Kitfox to Sun N' Fun and
Oshkosh every year since 1994 and over the last few years I have told my
pilot friends that it was the last Sun N' Fun trip for me. As each year
approached I always found a good reason to attend one more time.
However, this past weeks experience at Sun' N Fun has solidified that
position.
I had planned to depart for Sun N' Fun on Monday the 12th, but the
weather in Virginia and most of the route to the south was IFR for three
days. I finally departed on Thursday morning the 15th. The good news
was I had a tail wind all the way to Lakeland, FL. My ground speed
ranged from 145 to 120 Kts, not bad for a Kitfox. It was the first time
I ever made it from Warrenton, VA (W66) to Waycross, GA (AYS) in one leg
(501 nm). I arrived at Zephyrhills, FL (ZPH) at 2:15 pm to wait out the
air show going on at Lakeland which was scheduled to end at 5:00 pm.
There was a crowd of airplanes at Zephyrhills waiting with me. BTW,
fuel at Zephyrhills was only $1.20 a gallon.
At Lakeland the air show starts at 2:00 pm and is scheduled to end at
5:00 pm. 5:00 to 6:00 pm is scheduled for departures forcing arrivals
to wait until 6:00 pm before that are allowed to enter the approach
pattern and land. I have always accepted that until this year the air
show was allowed to extend to almost 6:00 pm. While I was at
Zephyrhills waiting for the show to end at 5:00 we were advised that
arrivals to Lakeland would not permitted until 7:00 pm. After a 16 km
flight to Lake Parker at Lakeland I was told that the holding patterns
over Lake Parker and Lake Hancock were full and all other pilots would
have to circle somewhere east of Lake Parker. That meant there were
airplanes flying all over the place, most of them confused and angry.
After circling for 45 minutes east of Lake Parker the sun was starting
to set on the horizon. To make a long horror story short I returned to
Zephyrhills Airport along with a lot of other aircraft and tied down for
the night. Some camped under their wings. I was lucky in that I had
friends pick me up and I stayed with them in Orlando.
The next morning I was dropped off at Zephyrhills at 11.00 am and one of
my friends flew with me to Lake Parker for one more try at Lakeland.
Again we flew in circles east of Lake Parker because both Lake Parker
and Lake Hancock holding patterns were full. I had to fly in circles
for about one hour before I was allowed to proceed to Lakeland and
land. The air show was about to start after I was on the ground.
The controllers at Sun N' Fun do not have the necessary skills,
experience and technique to handle the traffic volume in and out of
Lakeland. Oshkosh does a superior job with larger traffic volumes. In
my nine years of flying my Kitfox into Oshkosh I was only in a holding
pattern at Rippon once and that was for only two laps.
I also blame the EAA Management Team at Sun N' Fun for adding to the
problem. The air show is scheduled for three hours and starts at 2:00
pm. Even when it ends on schedule it does not provide enough time for
arrival aircraft to make it in before sundown. Why don't they start the
show earlier, or better yet hold it down to just two hours. I have seen
the show so many times that it is no longer a significant event for me.
I go to the shows to look at all the other aircraft on the flight line,
talk to the pilots who build and fly them and look over what the vendors
are selling today.
Another big gripe I have about Sun N' Fun is that the flight line is
closed to all pilots and visitors during the three hour air show. When
the show is over after 5:00 PM everyone starts to leave for the day.
Oshkosh keeps the flight line open all day long. BTW, I know why the
flight line is closed during the air show at Sun N' Fun, but I don't
like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
Fun again.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | EAA eHotline/Sport Pilot Update |
April 23, 2004 Volume 4, Number 16
News You Can Use ---
Congressional Representatives Join EAA in Urging OMB to Approve Sport
Pilot Rule Now
Two senators, five U.S. Representatives submit petition with
thousands of signatures
EAA's efforts to finalize the sport pilot/light-sport aircraft rule
drew the support of seven members of Congress this week, as these
elected officials were invited to join EAA members and aviation
enthusiasts in urging the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to
approve the rule "in the most expeditious manner possible" when it
receives the proposal back from the Federal Aviation Administration
and the U.S. Department of Transportation.
The elected officials, who are also pilots or knowledgeable aviation
supporters, include Senators James Inhofe (R-OK) and Michael Crapo (R-
ID); and Congressional representatives Sam Graves (R-MO); Tom Petri
(R-WI); Robin Hayes (R-NC); Vernon Ehlers (R-MI); and Dennis Rehburg
(R-MT). Each signed the letter addressed to OMB Director Joshua B.
Bolten, expressing strong support for the FAA's proposed rule,
Certification of Aircraft and Airman for the Operation of Light-Sport
Aircraft (Docket No. FAA-2001-11133).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Titan Tornado 1 for sale |
I just reduced the price $1,00.00, Check it out on barnstotmers.com Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy" <fultz(at)trip.net> |
| Subject: | Homebrew Lift Reserve Indicator |
Has anyone on this list built and used the homebrew version of the Lift
Reserve Indicator that was once upon a time posted on the airsoob website?
Consist of a probe and a differential pressure gauge. Just Curious.
Andy F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | broschart <cfbflyer(at)localnet.com> |
have you notified sun/fun people
doesn't do any good to tell me i've never been there an don't intend to
go
Have a good day - Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
John, I've never heard you vent like this before! It must have been pretty
bad. Although I've never been there myself I've always read the feedback
and it appears to me that perhaps S&F traffic is growing faster than the
management is. I agree, the experimental airplane and builder is what these
conventions are all about (or used to be anyway).
Thanks for the story.
Darrel
...snip
like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
Fun again.
John King
Warrenton, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun |
John,, An earlier arrival than noon works good,, say as soon as they open,
since you were so close. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun
>
> To The List,
>
> I have had it with Sun N' Fun. I have flown my Kitfox to Sun N' Fun and
> Oshkosh every year since 1994 and over the last few years I have told my
> pilot friends that it was the last Sun N' Fun trip for me. As each year
> approached I always found a good reason to attend one more time.
> However, this past weeks experience at Sun' N Fun has solidified that
> position.
>
> I had planned to depart for Sun N' Fun on Monday the 12th, but the
> weather in Virginia and most of the route to the south was IFR for three
> days. I finally departed on Thursday morning the 15th. The good news
> was I had a tail wind all the way to Lakeland, FL. My ground speed
> ranged from 145 to 120 Kts, not bad for a Kitfox. It was the first time
> I ever made it from Warrenton, VA (W66) to Waycross, GA (AYS) in one leg
> (501 nm). I arrived at Zephyrhills, FL (ZPH) at 2:15 pm to wait out the
> air show going on at Lakeland which was scheduled to end at 5:00 pm.
> There was a crowd of airplanes at Zephyrhills waiting with me. BTW,
> fuel at Zephyrhills was only $1.20 a gallon.
>
> At Lakeland the air show starts at 2:00 pm and is scheduled to end at
> 5:00 pm. 5:00 to 6:00 pm is scheduled for departures forcing arrivals
> to wait until 6:00 pm before that are allowed to enter the approach
> pattern and land. I have always accepted that until this year the air
> show was allowed to extend to almost 6:00 pm. While I was at
> Zephyrhills waiting for the show to end at 5:00 we were advised that
> arrivals to Lakeland would not permitted until 7:00 pm. After a 16 km
> flight to Lake Parker at Lakeland I was told that the holding patterns
> over Lake Parker and Lake Hancock were full and all other pilots would
> have to circle somewhere east of Lake Parker. That meant there were
> airplanes flying all over the place, most of them confused and angry.
> After circling for 45 minutes east of Lake Parker the sun was starting
> to set on the horizon. To make a long horror story short I returned to
> Zephyrhills Airport along with a lot of other aircraft and tied down for
> the night. Some camped under their wings. I was lucky in that I had
> friends pick me up and I stayed with them in Orlando.
>
> The next morning I was dropped off at Zephyrhills at 11.00 am and one of
> my friends flew with me to Lake Parker for one more try at Lakeland.
> Again we flew in circles east of Lake Parker because both Lake Parker
> and Lake Hancock holding patterns were full. I had to fly in circles
> for about one hour before I was allowed to proceed to Lakeland and
> land. The air show was about to start after I was on the ground.
>
> The controllers at Sun N' Fun do not have the necessary skills,
> experience and technique to handle the traffic volume in and out of
> Lakeland. Oshkosh does a superior job with larger traffic volumes. In
> my nine years of flying my Kitfox into Oshkosh I was only in a holding
> pattern at Rippon once and that was for only two laps.
>
> I also blame the EAA Management Team at Sun N' Fun for adding to the
> problem. The air show is scheduled for three hours and starts at 2:00
> pm. Even when it ends on schedule it does not provide enough time for
> arrival aircraft to make it in before sundown. Why don't they start the
> show earlier, or better yet hold it down to just two hours. I have seen
> the show so many times that it is no longer a significant event for me.
> I go to the shows to look at all the other aircraft on the flight line,
> talk to the pilots who build and fly them and look over what the vendors
> are selling today.
>
> Another big gripe I have about Sun N' Fun is that the flight line is
> closed to all pilots and visitors during the three hour air show. When
> the show is over after 5:00 PM everyone starts to leave for the day.
> Oshkosh keeps the flight line open all day long. BTW, I know why the
> flight line is closed during the air show at Sun N' Fun, but I don't
> like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
> is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
> fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
> about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
> Fun again.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mich L." <mlariv2421(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dresser tires... |
Hi
I bought tires from them for my Kitfox IV in the
spring of 2002.
www.desser.com
sales @desser.com
toll free (800) 247-8473
Fax (323) 721-7888
Mike
--- Aerobatics(at)aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List
message posted by:
> Aerobatics(at)aol.com
>
> I tried Google to find them ..... no listing
> does some one know howt o
> get in touch with them RE the KF 2 tires?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dave KF 2
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
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> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun |
John, Jim Campbell ( Jim Campbell haters need not reply) has explained the
FAA manned tower this way. Sun and Fun tower privileges are not necessarily
awarded on a most experienced basis. Check the following link that was
posted on ANN after a fatal collision on landing in 2003, I think.
http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=f44d313d-3db8-47aa-bc
b4-53391b174c1d&Dynamic=1
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun
>
> To The List,
>
> I have had it with Sun N' Fun. I have flown my Kitfox to Sun N' Fun and
> Oshkosh every year since 1994 and over the last few years I have told my
> pilot friends that it was the last Sun N' Fun trip for me. As each year
> approached I always found a good reason to attend one more time.
> However, this past weeks experience at Sun' N Fun has solidified that
> position.
>
> I had planned to depart for Sun N' Fun on Monday the 12th, but the
> weather in Virginia and most of the route to the south was IFR for three
> days. I finally departed on Thursday morning the 15th. The good news
> was I had a tail wind all the way to Lakeland, FL. My ground speed
> ranged from 145 to 120 Kts, not bad for a Kitfox. It was the first time
> I ever made it from Warrenton, VA (W66) to Waycross, GA (AYS) in one leg
> (501 nm). I arrived at Zephyrhills, FL (ZPH) at 2:15 pm to wait out the
> air show going on at Lakeland which was scheduled to end at 5:00 pm.
> There was a crowd of airplanes at Zephyrhills waiting with me. BTW,
> fuel at Zephyrhills was only $1.20 a gallon.
>
> At Lakeland the air show starts at 2:00 pm and is scheduled to end at
> 5:00 pm. 5:00 to 6:00 pm is scheduled for departures forcing arrivals
> to wait until 6:00 pm before that are allowed to enter the approach
> pattern and land. I have always accepted that until this year the air
> show was allowed to extend to almost 6:00 pm. While I was at
> Zephyrhills waiting for the show to end at 5:00 we were advised that
> arrivals to Lakeland would not permitted until 7:00 pm. After a 16 km
> flight to Lake Parker at Lakeland I was told that the holding patterns
> over Lake Parker and Lake Hancock were full and all other pilots would
> have to circle somewhere east of Lake Parker. That meant there were
> airplanes flying all over the place, most of them confused and angry.
> After circling for 45 minutes east of Lake Parker the sun was starting
> to set on the horizon. To make a long horror story short I returned to
> Zephyrhills Airport along with a lot of other aircraft and tied down for
> the night. Some camped under their wings. I was lucky in that I had
> friends pick me up and I stayed with them in Orlando.
>
> The next morning I was dropped off at Zephyrhills at 11.00 am and one of
> my friends flew with me to Lake Parker for one more try at Lakeland.
> Again we flew in circles east of Lake Parker because both Lake Parker
> and Lake Hancock holding patterns were full. I had to fly in circles
> for about one hour before I was allowed to proceed to Lakeland and
> land. The air show was about to start after I was on the ground.
>
> The controllers at Sun N' Fun do not have the necessary skills,
> experience and technique to handle the traffic volume in and out of
> Lakeland. Oshkosh does a superior job with larger traffic volumes. In
> my nine years of flying my Kitfox into Oshkosh I was only in a holding
> pattern at Rippon once and that was for only two laps.
>
> I also blame the EAA Management Team at Sun N' Fun for adding to the
> problem. The air show is scheduled for three hours and starts at 2:00
> pm. Even when it ends on schedule it does not provide enough time for
> arrival aircraft to make it in before sundown. Why don't they start the
> show earlier, or better yet hold it down to just two hours. I have seen
> the show so many times that it is no longer a significant event for me.
> I go to the shows to look at all the other aircraft on the flight line,
> talk to the pilots who build and fly them and look over what the vendors
> are selling today.
>
> Another big gripe I have about Sun N' Fun is that the flight line is
> closed to all pilots and visitors during the three hour air show. When
> the show is over after 5:00 PM everyone starts to leave for the day.
> Oshkosh keeps the flight line open all day long. BTW, I know why the
> flight line is closed during the air show at Sun N' Fun, but I don't
> like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
> is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
> fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
> about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
> Fun again.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | I'am Through With Sun N' Fun |
John,
Knowing the issues you faced first hand... I'm glad that your safe. I have
had issues with Sun-n-Fun on every occasion... Even as a vendor was told
point blank that we (Sun-n-Fun) don't need you here and they have always
been difficult to work with.... On the other hand.. Oshkosh, Arlington,
Golden West, Rocky Mountain, Copperstate etc.. have been wonderful and
pleasant to be at and work with.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John E. King
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun
To The List,
I have had it with Sun N' Fun. I have flown my Kitfox to Sun N' Fun and
Oshkosh every year since 1994 and over the last few years I have told my
pilot friends that it was the last Sun N' Fun trip for me. As each year
approached I always found a good reason to attend one more time.
However, this past weeks experience at Sun' N Fun has solidified that
position.
I had planned to depart for Sun N' Fun on Monday the 12th, but the
weather in Virginia and most of the route to the south was IFR for three
days. I finally departed on Thursday morning the 15th. The good news
was I had a tail wind all the way to Lakeland, FL. My ground speed
ranged from 145 to 120 Kts, not bad for a Kitfox. It was the first time
I ever made it from Warrenton, VA (W66) to Waycross, GA (AYS) in one leg
(501 nm). I arrived at Zephyrhills, FL (ZPH) at 2:15 pm to wait out the
air show going on at Lakeland which was scheduled to end at 5:00 pm.
There was a crowd of airplanes at Zephyrhills waiting with me. BTW,
fuel at Zephyrhills was only $1.20 a gallon.
At Lakeland the air show starts at 2:00 pm and is scheduled to end at
5:00 pm. 5:00 to 6:00 pm is scheduled for departures forcing arrivals
to wait until 6:00 pm before that are allowed to enter the approach
pattern and land. I have always accepted that until this year the air
show was allowed to extend to almost 6:00 pm. While I was at
Zephyrhills waiting for the show to end at 5:00 we were advised that
arrivals to Lakeland would not permitted until 7:00 pm. After a 16 km
flight to Lake Parker at Lakeland I was told that the holding patterns
over Lake Parker and Lake Hancock were full and all other pilots would
have to circle somewhere east of Lake Parker. That meant there were
airplanes flying all over the place, most of them confused and angry.
After circling for 45 minutes east of Lake Parker the sun was starting
to set on the horizon. To make a long horror story short I returned to
Zephyrhills Airport along with a lot of other aircraft and tied down for
the night. Some camped under their wings. I was lucky in that I had
friends pick me up and I stayed with them in Orlando.
The next morning I was dropped off at Zephyrhills at 11.00 am and one of
my friends flew with me to Lake Parker for one more try at Lakeland.
Again we flew in circles east of Lake Parker because both Lake Parker
and Lake Hancock holding patterns were full. I had to fly in circles
for about one hour before I was allowed to proceed to Lakeland and
land. The air show was about to start after I was on the ground.
The controllers at Sun N' Fun do not have the necessary skills,
experience and technique to handle the traffic volume in and out of
Lakeland. Oshkosh does a superior job with larger traffic volumes. In
my nine years of flying my Kitfox into Oshkosh I was only in a holding
pattern at Rippon once and that was for only two laps.
I also blame the EAA Management Team at Sun N' Fun for adding to the
problem. The air show is scheduled for three hours and starts at 2:00
pm. Even when it ends on schedule it does not provide enough time for
arrival aircraft to make it in before sundown. Why don't they start the
show earlier, or better yet hold it down to just two hours. I have seen
the show so many times that it is no longer a significant event for me.
I go to the shows to look at all the other aircraft on the flight line,
talk to the pilots who build and fly them and look over what the vendors
are selling today.
Another big gripe I have about Sun N' Fun is that the flight line is
closed to all pilots and visitors during the three hour air show. When
the show is over after 5:00 PM everyone starts to leave for the day.
Oshkosh keeps the flight line open all day long. BTW, I know why the
flight line is closed during the air show at Sun N' Fun, but I don't
like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
Fun again.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mdkitfox(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Homebrew Lift Reserve Indicator |
Andy,
I've bought the LRI years ago and I'm installing it on my Series V. I also
flew the original LRI back in the 80's and it worked as intended. It was
simple, it worked, and was low cost. If the 'home-brew' version is the same I
think it would serve you well. However, I've also seen Elbie's Rite Angle system
and given the choice I would strongly consider the Rite Angle. Mostly for 2
reasons, Elbie stands behind it and it's in production so there's a support
system available. By the way, Elbie did not pay me to say this!
Rick Weiss
Series V Speedster, 912S, SkyStar Serial Number 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel Gordillo" <michelgordillo(at)telefonica.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Miguel Ramirez |
Just always in my mind.
He will be always close to us.
Michel
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Miguel Ramirez
>
> A year ago Miguel past over. He died in an accident in
> Chapala Lake, Western Mexico with his friend Alonso
> Ruiz in a Serie 6. His friends in Mexico miss them
> both. I cant belive Miguel is gone when I watch the
> Alaska 2002 DVD. There will be some services in
> Guadalajara, San Luis Potos and Mexico City.
>
>
> Francisco Icaza
> Classic IV
>
> La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of fuel |
I agree
Actually, I am a Canadian, living in the USA for the last 25 years and we are
VERY fortunate
VERY
:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun |
Bob,
I agree, but being located in Northern Virginia I can't get there before the air
show opens unless I have a heavy tail wind all the way. My second attempt on
Friday was also not an early one because I was staying with a group that were
staying in Orlando and they are not early risers and take a long time getting
breakfast. If I was by myself and not depending on others for local transportation
I could have got an earlier start that morning.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>
>John,, An earlier arrival than noon works good,, say as soon as they open,
>since you were so close. Bob U.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com>
>To: "Kitfox List"
>Subject: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of fuel |
Jeff & All,
My screw up, the price of 100LL at Zephyrhills, Florida was $2.20 per gallon, not
$1.20 a gallon. A $2.20 per gallon price is still a bargain here where it
normally runs between $2.75 to $3.25.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Jeff Thomas wrote:
>
>John wrote about his problems flying into Sun N' Fun, but living in England
>(and unfortunately not being able to get to Sun N' Fun or Oshkosh), one
>thing that stood out in John's email was his comment that fuel was available
>at 1.20 Dollars a gallon.
>
>Ordinary unleaded motor fuel in England (that I use in my 582 Rotax) is
>about 6.50 Dollars a gallon (although our "gallon" is a little larger than
>yours), and 100LL aviation fuel is around 8 Dollars a gallon!
>
>Having said that, we have some terrific weather here in south east England
>at the moment and I have managed to get in 10 hours flying so far this
>week..... buying the fuel is money well spent in my book
>
>Regards
>Jeff
>Kitfox III
>
>
>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems at S&F |
Darrel,
Yes, it was bad and I was mad. I delayed writing about it for several
days just to cool off some. There were many other pilots who were
disgusted when they could not get in. I hope they all pass the word around.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Fox5flyer wrote:
>
>John, I've never heard you vent like this before! It must have been pretty
>bad. Although I've never been there myself I've always read the feedback
>and it appears to me that perhaps S&F traffic is growing faster than the
>management is. I agree, the experimental airplane and builder is what these
>conventions are all about (or used to be anyway).
>Thanks for the story.
>Darrel
>
>...snip
>like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun
>is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that
>fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all
>about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N'
>Fun again.
>John King
>Warrenton, VA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jeff(at)cleorecs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/23/04 |
Remove this email from your list please.
>
> From: Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
> Date: 2004/04/24 Sat AM 01:58:30 CDT
> To: Kitfox-List Digest List
> Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/23/04
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Proud new owner of my second Kitfox/Parts for sale |
I am the proud new owner of my second Model IV. I presently have two Kitfox's and
I am selling one of them. I have purchased another one that had a Volkswagon
Magnum II 2180direct drivethat hasa crack on the crankshaft with only 72 hours
total time on the engine and aircraft. I am the fourth owner of this plane
and basicly the other owner's were selling this beautifully built plane due to
the poor performance of the motor andoverheating problems. Thelast owner sold
it because of the crack on the crank that was located on the inside of the bolt
hole where the boltthat holdsthe prop hub goes into.I would highly recommend
to everyone who has this motor to inspect there crank at this location. Ihave
removed this engine and firewall forward kit etc...and I am sellingthe followingas
a package or Iwill seperate the items. I have the c
omplete firewall forward kit, engine for parts, spare carb, prop (Ed Sterba 60/28
degrees)and gages for four stroke purposes. If I decide on a 912 or 912S,
the gages won't be for sale. I will be installing either a Rotax 582 or a 912,
912S. I am still making this decision and will decide this very important decision
very soon. I am looking for a firewall forward kit for a Rotax 582 or for
a 912. I am also looking for a good engine that has descent hours and it must
have precise records/logs of hours on it.If you have a 582, 912 or 912S for
sale or firewall forward kit for 582 or 912, a gear box for a 582, please contact
me off the list.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Veneck <edveneck(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Proud new owner of my second Kitfox/Parts for sale |
Marc
Can you contact me at "edveneck(at)yahoo.com" on this. I
would like to more info on the parts you have for
sale, mainly, type and model of carb, dia. of prop,
asking price, and where you are located.
Thanks
Ed
--- Marc Arseneault
wrote:
>
>
> I am the proud new owner of my second Model IV. I
> presently have two Kitfox's and I am selling one of
> them. I have purchased another one that had a
> Volkswagon Magnum II 2180direct drivethat hasa crack
> on the crankshaft with only 72 hours total time on
> the engine and aircraft. I am the fourth owner of
> this plane and basicly the other owner's were
> selling this beautifully built plane due to the poor
> performance of the motor andoverheating problems.
> Thelast owner sold it because of the crack on the
> crank that was located on the inside of the bolt
> hole where the boltthat holdsthe prop hub goes
> into.I would highly recommend to everyone who has
> this motor to inspect there crank at this location.
> Ihave removed this engine and firewall forward kit
> etc...and I am sellingthe followingas a package or
> Iwill seperate the items. I have the c
> omplete firewall forward kit, engine for parts,
> spare carb, prop (Ed Sterba 60/28 degrees)and gages
> for four stroke purposes. If I decide on a 912 or
> 912S, the gages won't be for sale. I will be
> installing either a Rotax 582 or a 912, 912S. I am
> still making this decision and will decide this very
> important decision very soon. I am looking for a
> firewall forward kit for a Rotax 582 or for a 912. I
> am also looking for a good engine that has descent
> hours and it must have precise records/logs of hours
> on it.If you have a 582, 912 or 912S for sale or
> firewall forward kit for 582 or 912, a gear box for
> a 582, please contact me off the list.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Ducar" <aeropup1(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | 90% Complete Kitfox Project Up for Sale |
To all my Kitfox friends,
I am putting my Kitfox IV-1200 Project up for sale. I am currently involved
in a much bigger and faster project (JSF) that will not allow me to complete
my fox anytime soon.
The A/C is in an advanced state of completion and is impeccably built. It is
a Mod IV-1200 that has been in a temperature controlled work shop for all of
its life. The builder is a Sr Materials and Process Engineer and A&P
Instructor who has been in A/C design, build and certification for over 24
years. The project has been EAA tech inspected twice. This project will make
someone a great plane under the new sport A/C category. I will be glad to
further describe in detail the inventory list and build description when
contacted off line.
The following is a brief description of the project:
Skystar Mod IV-1200
Warp drive 3-blade composite prop and polished spinner
New Rotax 582, C-box with RK400 clutch, fitted and firewall mounted on
polished firewall. Engine is mounted with all engine ancillary equipment
including muffler. Top cowl has been split at the firewall to allow ease of
maintance and accessibility. Engine has already been broken-in and tested on
the engine test stand by Bob Robertson of Canada.
Exterior is professionally covered and painted White with Red tapered
fuselage stripes and upper and lower wing skin fans and Black checkerboard
detail on vert stab and under horiz.stab.
Everything has been pre-fitted for final assembly, all A/C fasteners.
Professionally heat formed .110" Windscreen, slight gray tint all around.
Radiator shroud installed
Cleveland wheels and brakes, Matco pedal cylinders
All new instruments and sensors( all are fitted and mounted):
Grand Rapids Engine Monitoring System and sensors
New Icom 760 radio- panel mount with antenna
Garmin III GPS, remote antenna
ELT with antenna
Altimeter, Airspeed, Turn & Bank, Rate of Climb, Amp Meter, Sigtronics
StereoCom intercom, multi-function control stick handle grips and AOA sensor
Interior:
Custom Gray/Dark Gray Upholstery with lightweight upholstered honeycomb hard
panels over the back deck, Light Weight Carbon Composite seat, Carbon
Composite/Cherry wood veneered instrument panel and center console, all
switches and masters installed. Panel layout per A/C standards
Masc.:
All 4130 A/C frame and details have been primed with corrosion resistant A/C
green primer and top coated with Urethane A/C top coat.
All Aluminum has been prepped with corrosion resistant Phosphoric acid
annodization (by tank) and primed with a corrosion resistant bond primer.
All metal prep work done in process certified shops.
All flight controls have been installed
Removable wing tips
2-Flightcom head sets
This is an easy project to complete. 99% of all parts are included to
complete project.
Plus a bunch of extra stuff that would you would have to buy or make.
I will be posting the project with pictures on Sport Flight and
Barnstormers.com in the very near future.
Please pass the word around and have anybody who is interested contact me at
my home e-mail.
I will be asking a very fair price, it should sell quickly
Thanks
Bob Ducar
aeropup1(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger McConnell" <rdmac(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | 90% Complete Kitfox Project Up for Sale |
Bob,
Sorry to here you are having to sell your Model IV. When I saw this
aircraft in Dec. of '02, I thought you would surely have it flying long by
now. I can personally attest to the excellent workmanship of this aircraft.
Who ever is the lucky person to by it is truly getting one fine aircraft.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Ducar
Subject: Kitfox-List: 90% Complete Kitfox Project Up for Sale
To all my Kitfox friends,
I am putting my Kitfox IV-1200 Project up for sale. I am currently involved
in a much bigger and faster project (JSF) that will not allow me to complete
my fox anytime soon.
The A/C is in an advanced state of completion and is impeccably built. It is
a Mod IV-1200 that has been in a temperature controlled work shop for all of
its life. The builder is a Sr Materials and Process Engineer and A&P
Instructor who has been in A/C design, build and certification for over 24
years. The project has been EAA tech inspected twice. This project will make
someone a great plane under the new sport A/C category. I will be glad to
further describe in detail the inventory list and build description when
contacted off line.
The following is a brief description of the project:
Skystar Mod IV-1200
Warp drive 3-blade composite prop and polished spinner
New Rotax 582, C-box with RK400 clutch, fitted and firewall mounted on
polished firewall. Engine is mounted with all engine ancillary equipment
including muffler. Top cowl has been split at the firewall to allow ease of
maintance and accessibility. Engine has already been broken-in and tested on
the engine test stand by Bob Robertson of Canada.
Exterior is professionally covered and painted White with Red tapered
fuselage stripes and upper and lower wing skin fans and Black checkerboard
detail on vert stab and under horiz.stab.
Everything has been pre-fitted for final assembly, all A/C fasteners.
Professionally heat formed .110" Windscreen, slight gray tint all around.
Radiator shroud installed
Cleveland wheels and brakes, Matco pedal cylinders
All new instruments and sensors( all are fitted and mounted):
Grand Rapids Engine Monitoring System and sensors
New Icom 760 radio- panel mount with antenna
Garmin III GPS, remote antenna
ELT with antenna
Altimeter, Airspeed, Turn & Bank, Rate of Climb, Amp Meter, Sigtronics
StereoCom intercom, multi-function control stick handle grips and AOA sensor
Interior:
Custom Gray/Dark Gray Upholstery with lightweight upholstered honeycomb hard
panels over the back deck, Light Weight Carbon Composite seat, Carbon
Composite/Cherry wood veneered instrument panel and center console, all
switches and masters installed. Panel layout per A/C standards
Masc.:
All 4130 A/C frame and details have been primed with corrosion resistant A/C
green primer and top coated with Urethane A/C top coat.
All Aluminum has been prepped with corrosion resistant Phosphoric acid
annodization (by tank) and primed with a corrosion resistant bond primer.
All metal prep work done in process certified shops.
All flight controls have been installed
Removable wing tips
2-Flightcom head sets
This is an easy project to complete. 99% of all parts are included to
complete project.
Plus a bunch of extra stuff that would you would have to buy or make.
I will be posting the project with pictures on Sport Flight and
Barnstormers.com in the very near future.
Please pass the word around and have anybody who is interested contact me at
my home e-mail.
I will be asking a very fair price, it should sell quickly
Thanks
Bob Ducar
aeropup1(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com> |
This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I can start
a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS receiver which
is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I guess one of the
things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something, however, and that's
where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly about the Garmin 196,
but then along comes the 296 with color and extra bells and whistles (at a considerably
higher price needless to say). I recently came across info on the Anywhere
Map system which at only a couple of hundred dollars more than the 196
seems to do a lot more. I was wondering what the group members had to say about
these different systems, good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
Clem Nichols
Kitfox Model IV 1200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
Clem,
I've just gone through this decision process also. The Anywhere map is very
tempting, but I think a Garmin 296 will be more reliable, easier to use in
flight and will easily drive an autopilot. I'm going with the 296.
Cliff
>
> This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I
can start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS
receiver which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I
guess one of the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something,
however, and that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly
about the Garmin 196, but then along comes the 296 with color and extra
bells and whistles (at a considerably higher price needless to say). I
recently came across info on the Anywhere Map system which at only a couple
of hundred dollars more than the 196 seems to do a lot more. I was
wondering what the group members had to say about these different systems,
good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Kitfox Model IV 1200
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock(at)dot.state.ak.us> |
This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days.
Yes, Clem
It's been a little quiet lately.
We had a really good and long discussion on the GPS issue some months
ago. (Remember Jeff?) :-)
Rather than get back into the debate, I would suggest going back into
the archives.
I remember posting some rather long messages and replies as this is
"right up my alley" being a land surveyor.
I will tell you (all) that beginning mid May I will begin Alpha and then
Beta testing the new version of the Palm EFIS system that
Hangar B-17 is developing. I have this on my Garmin iQue PDA/GPS and I
really like it.
I found a couple of "bugs" in their existing software and had some
comments. As I do a lot of flying and surveying with GPS up here, they
enlisted my help and my ego wouldn't allow me to say no.
They are incorporating a terrain avoidance utility which should prevent
inadvertent CFIT. (Ouch!)
I'll keep you all abreast of the testing as it goes along.
In the mean time, check out www.hangarb17.com I think you will like what
they have to offer.
Scott in Nome
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Mantell" <wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net> |
Clem, I have had the anywhere map now for three years, and I keep learning
new things it can do. They keep adding features and its fantastic. Its also
updated every 28 days, so you always have current info. I have one in my
cessna, AND one in the kitfox. I use a Casio pda which I don't recommend.
The Ipac, hp, or others are better for service.
I use have 315 with the aircraft database as a backup. The only thing
that s bad about all these units is that has a tendency to keep your head in
the cockpit and not looking out the window. You also start to rely on them
and you loose your navigation skills after awhile. That can get you in real
trouble. I don't like the garman for you cant see it in the bright sun in
the cockpit. The newer pda's are real bright.
Unless you do allot of cross country I would stick with the 315. Or if
you want a real neat toy, go with the anywhere system. TEX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS systems
>
> This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I
can start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS
receiver which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I
guess one of the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something,
however, and that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly
about the Garmin 196, but then along comes the 296 with color and extra
bells and whistles (at a considerably higher price needless to say). I
recently came across info on the Anywhere Map system which at only a couple
of hundred dollars more than the 196 seems to do a lot more. I was
wondering what the group members had to say about these different systems,
good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Kitfox Model IV 1200
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Lina" <airlina(at)usadatanet.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mantell" <wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GPS systems
>
> Clem, I have had the anywhere map now for three years, and I keep learning
> new things it can do. They keep adding features and its fantastic. Its
also
> updated every 28 days, so you always have current info. I have one in my
> cessna, AND one in the kitfox. I use a Casio pda which I don't recommend.
> The Ipac, hp, or others are better for service.
> I use have 315 with the aircraft database as a backup. The only thing
> that s bad about all these units is that has a tendency to keep your head
in
> the cockpit and not looking out the window. You also start to rely on
them
> and you loose your navigation skills after awhile. That can get you in
real
> trouble. I don't like the garman for you cant see it in the bright sun in
> the cockpit. The newer pda's are real bright.
> Unless you do allot of cross country I would stick with the 315. Or if
> you want a real neat toy, go with the anywhere system. TEX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com>
> To: "kitfox list"
>
>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS systems
>
>
> >
> > This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if
I
> can start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS
> receiver which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I
> guess one of the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade
something,
> however, and that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly
> about the Garmin 196, but then along comes the 296 with color and extra
> bells and whistles (at a considerably higher price needless to say). I
> recently came across info on the Anywhere Map system which at only a
couple
> of hundred dollars more than the 196 seems to do a lot more. I was
> wondering what the group members had to say about these different systems,
> good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
> >
> > Clem Nichols
> > Kitfox Model IV 1200
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel/ground loop |
I'm glad all of you enjoyed the story so much. To refresh my memory on how
we eliminated the full-swivel option from that Maule tailwheel, I checked
out a new Maule tailwheel I have in a box of parts. Very simple; there is a
metal bracket with two small screws on it. Remove the screws and the
bracket. Then reinstall the two screws WITHOUT the bracket. You now will
have a tailwheel that turns 90 degrees either direction, but won't swivel.
This way you can be assured the tailwheel is tracking with rudder position
only. Unless a spring were to break, wherever the rudder is positioned, the
tailwheel will be going the same direction.
I would recommend anyone flying a Kitfox (or any taildragger with a Maule
tailwheel) to remove the bracket for the first 100 hours, and then when you
think you know everything, reinstall the bracket. If it is set up wrong
you'll quickly learn you don't know everything! If it's set up correctly
(takes hard stab on the rudder pedal to get it to unlock) you won't even
notice anything different, except of course you can now turn at the pumps on
your own axis.
Hope this clears up any questions about how to remove the full-swivel
feature on the Maule tailwheel.
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "torgemor" <torgemor(at)online.no>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> Real good information.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> >===== Original Message From "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> =====
> >
> >
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: tail wheel/ground loop
> >
> >
> >Previous writer stated;
> >
> >> No one likes to admit to having a gound loop and I am no exception.
> >Unfortunetly it happened to me.
> >> I had installed some new tires on the Fox and took it out for a taxi
test.
> >It was really hard to handle and wanted to go >every where but staight.
Run
> >it down the stripe and when I pulled back on the throttle to slow the
tail
> >started to drop >and she darted off to the right and came up on the left
> >wing, I slammed down on the left rudder and recovered but not >before the
> >left wing was on the gound and I was off the paved strip (30'
wide)........
> >
> >
> >All:
> >
> >I have a friend that wrecked his Avid Mark IV after he and his flight
> >instructor ground looped it while practicing wheel landings. It ended up
on
> >it's back, pretty severely damaged. Incidentally, I had test flown this
> >same airplane for the first 50 hours of its life. But the first 40 were
on
> >floats (my preferred test flying method - lots of long runways every
which
> >direction should I need it). And when we put it back on the gear at a
> >little over the 40 hour mark, I expected it to be an easy transition for
me
> >as I have over 300 hours tailwheel time in Avids and Kitfoxes. But was I
> >surprised!
> >
> >Take off was straightforward (no pun intended). But when it came time to
> >land, it took me 6 attempts before I could put it on the ground without
> >ground looping it. It would veer left (primarily, but also right)
severely
> >as soon as the tailwheel touched the blacktop. Thank god for high lift
> >wings and high horsepower to weight ratios! I was fortunate to be able
to
> >fly away with wide open throttle and a lot of stick finesse. Whew! I
> >couldn't figure out if I was just that rusty, or if there was something
> >wrong with the airplane? I had never had that much trouble with any
> >taildragger previous. Even a Pitts S-2 I checked out in was easier than
> >this Avid.
> >
> >So we checked everything. Tightened the bungees and I went up again
> >(somewhat reluctantly I will admit). Same exciting experience! So we
> >decided to let some air out of the tires after checking and rechecking
tire
> >tracking. Went up again (was almost getting good at groundloop
recoveries
> >at this point, if that's possible?) Made a very minor improvement, but
> >after about 6 more "almost" ground loops, I was determined to figure out
the
> >problem. But we saw nothing wrong. As a last resort, we decided to
remove
> >the full-swivel capability from the Maule tailwheel. Just like that, it
was
> >now the easy-to-land-pussycat an Avid or Kitfox should be! So the
> >owner/builder and I were finally able to go out and fly his airplane
> >together so he could get some tailwheel stick time. Then I took his
> >instructor out and checked him out so he could train the owner/builder so
he
> >could earn his recreational license in his own airplane. The instructor
was
> >an experienced tailwheel pilot, and commented about how much better the
Avid
> >handled than the Cub he owned, and was using for tailwheel instruction.
> >They went on to fly the Avid approximately another 20 hours without a
> >problem. Then one day they decided to put the full-swivel option back
into
> >use on the tailwheel (it was more fun on the ramp the instructor told
him).
> >And it was almost immediately after doing so that they got in trouble and
> >wrecked the airplane.
> >
> >Investigation of the aircraft later showed that the builder had not
limited
> >the rudder deflection like the Avid recommended. He thought more was
> >better. Unfortunately, that over controlling rudder movement was
activating
> >the full swivel sooner than it should have been, while still in the air.
I
> >initially was not convinced it could be that simple, but when re-thinking
> >the problems I had with it, and how removing the full swivel option from
the
> >tailwheel made it much easier to handle, I agreed they were on to
something.
> >
> >Best detailed explanation I can give; When landing the airplane we all
had
> >a tendency to land on the mains with the tailwheel hitting seconds later.
> >That's always the way I found Avid's to land best due to the landing gear
> >and wing incidence relationship. Even though the airplane was straight
down
> >the runway in a picture perfect landing, if you used alot of rudder
> >deflection during the landing (especially once the main wheels were on
the
> >ground), the tailwheel would unlock and start to swivel left or right.
So
> >as soon as the tail touched, the wheel being sideways one way or another
put
> >you into an immediate sharp turn. And of course you probably were going
to
> >swerve the other direction next due to overcorrecting with opposite
rudder
> >(it all happens in a nano-second you know). After playing around on the
> >ground with the tailwheel / rudder movement relationship, we learned that
> >limiting the rudder movement would make unlocking the tailwheel much more
> >difficult. The builder went on to rebuild the airplane (and reduced the
> >rudder limits like the factory originally wanted) and never had a ground
> >looping problem again (even though he was a very low time pilot). So we
> >are all pretty convinced that was the problem.
> >
> >So maybe there is the possibility that some of these ground looping
problems
> >the rest of you are experiencing could be related? If it were me, and I
had
> >a full swivel ability in my tailwheel, I'd limit it and try it that way
> >before I would resolve myself to believing the Kitfox is just that hard
to
> >land. It should't be.
> >
> >My fingers are tired now. But I hope this might help even one of you
avoid
> >that embarassing, and possibly expensive ground loop...
> >
> >Paul Seehafer
> >Wisconsin
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
I really like my Garmin 295, lots of bells and whistles, but not color. the panel
page and vertical navigation options are useful.
I also use the road mode occasionally to identify the best route for a road trip.
John
>
> This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I can
> start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS receiver
> which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I guess one of
> the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something, however, and
> that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly about the Garmin 196,
> but then along comes the 296 with color and extra bells and whistles (at a
> considerably higher price needless to say). I recently came across info on the
> Anywhere Map system which at only a couple of hundred dollars more than the 196
> seems to do a lot more. I was wondering what the group members had to say about
> these different systems, good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Kitfox Model IV 1200
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" <jeff.hays(at)aselia.com> |
I fly with my finger on a sectional and the GPS turned off these days,
to break all the bad habits I developed from using too many devices
(multiple gps's, etc.). It makes flying a lot more fun too!
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:14:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GPS systems
I really like my Garmin 295, lots of bells and whistles, but not color. the
panel page and vertical navigation options are useful.
I also use the road mode occasionally to identify the best route for a road
trip.
John
>
> This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I
can
> start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS
receiver
> which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I guess
one of
> the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something, however,
and
> that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly about the
Garmin 196,
> but then along comes the 296 with color and extra bells and whistles (at
a
> considerably higher price needless to say). I recently came across info
on the
> Anywhere Map system which at only a couple of hundred dollars more than
the 196
> seems to do a lot more. I was wondering what the group members had to
say about
> these different systems, good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Kitfox Model IV 1200
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock(at)dot.state.ak.us> |
Atta' Boy, Jeff !!
It kinda' forces you to enjoy the view that way too.
If ya' wanna keep your head inside the cockpit, then file an IFR flight plan.
(boring)
Scott in Nome
"jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" wrote:
>
> I fly with my finger on a sectional and the GPS turned off these days,
> to break all the bad habits I developed from using too many devices
> (multiple gps's, etc.). It makes flying a lot more fun too!
>
> Jeff
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:14:53 +0000
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GPS systems
>
>
> I really like my Garmin 295, lots of bells and whistles, but not color. the
> panel page and vertical navigation options are useful.
>
> I also use the road mode occasionally to identify the best route for a road
> trip.
>
> John
> >
> > This group has been awfully quiet for the last few days. Let me see if I
> can
> > start a discussion. I'm presently using a little Magellan 315 GPS
> receiver
> > which is totally adequate for getting from point A to point B. I guess
> one of
> > the things about flying is always wanting to upgrade something, however,
> and
> > that's where I am right now. I had been thinking strongly about the
> Garmin 196,
> > but then along comes the 296 with color and extra bells and whistles (at
> a
> > considerably higher price needless to say). I recently came across info
> on the
> > Anywhere Map system which at only a couple of hundred dollars more than
> the 196
> > seems to do a lot more. I was wondering what the group members had to
> say about
> > these different systems, good, bad, or otherwise. Thanks for your input.
> >
> > Clem Nichols
> > Kitfox Model IV 1200
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock(at)dot.state.ak.us> |
| Subject: | Whoa, hold on there |
OK, I see I sparked some interest. So before too many of you ask for
more "scary" pictures, just go to this link.
www.alaska.faa.gov/fai/airports2.htm
All the "scary" airports are there and you can get a pretty good idea of
the kind of terrain I'm flying over.
I think you all will enjoy this.
Scott in Nome
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk's Welding" <kirk(at)mninter.net> |
Hello:
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912. I have noticed that when I shut the
engine down, then come back a few minutes later to start it again it is flooded.
I have to shut the fuel off, start the engine with full throttle, then
when it starts, I turn the fuel back on. Has anyone else had this problem? If
so, what did you do about it?
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
N198KM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeff.hays(at)aselia.com" <jeff.hays(at)aselia.com> |
I don't know Rotax's, but if they're carburated, sounds like classic
symptoms of a leaking float needle.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Kirk's Welding kirk(at)mninter.net
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:47:08 -0500
Subject: Kitfox-List: Flooding
Hello:
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912. I have noticed that when I
shut the engine down, then come back a few minutes later to start it again
it is flooded. I have to shut the fuel off, start the engine with full
throttle, then when it starts, I turn the fuel back on. Has anyone else
had this problem? If so, what did you do about it?
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
N198KM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Keyes <keyesmp(at)yahoo.com> |
On my first cross country, the GPS failed, (actually the batteries did), but because
I was flying by pilotage anyway, it was of little concern. I did, however
also lose the altimeter reading with the GPS, but that, too was of little concern
in an ultralight. I fully agree with Michel!!! GPS is fun, but pilotage
is even more fun.
Matt
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
My handheld gps failed 15 minutes after departure for Oshkosh 3 years ago. I
had a non pilot passenger on board (Piper Archer) and taught her to navigate
while we flew along. Didn't take her 30 minutes to grasp ded reckoning,
pilotage and VOR navigating. I didn't have to raise a finger to navigate the
rest of the trip to or from Oshkosh. That was actually quite enjoyable
watching someone learn to do this. Of course I already had the course line
drawn on the chart so that made it easy. This really made the trip enjoyable
for the passenger also as it made her feel that she had an important role in
the flight.
Cliff
>
> On my first cross country, the GPS failed, (actually the batteries did),
but because I was flying by pilotage anyway, it was of little concern. I
did, however also lose the altimeter reading with the GPS, but that, too was
of little concern in an ultralight. I fully agree with Michel!!! GPS is
fun, but pilotage is even more fun.
>
> Matt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Whoa, hold on there |
Scott,
Thanks for the memories. I checked out Circle Hot Springs, Bettles,
Chena Hot Springs, Fairbanks and Anaktuvuk Pass Airports on the web site
just for memories sake. We visited these airports on the Alaska trip.
Recognized every detail. Great web site.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Scott McClintock wrote:
>
>OK, I see I sparked some interest. So before too many of you ask for
>more "scary" pictures, just go to this link.
>www.alaska.faa.gov/fai/airports2.htm
>All the "scary" airports are there and you can get a pretty good idea of
>the kind of terrain I'm flying over.
>I think you all will enjoy this.
>Scott in Nome
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
My guess too.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays(at)aselia.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flooding
>
>
> I don't know Rotax's, but if they're carburated, sounds like classic
> symptoms of a leaking float needle.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Kirk's Welding kirk(at)mninter.net
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:47:08 -0500
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Flooding
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912. I have noticed that when I
> shut the engine down, then come back a few minutes later to start it again
> it is flooded. I have to shut the fuel off, start the engine with full
> throttle, then when it starts, I turn the fuel back on. Has anyone else
> had this problem? If so, what did you do about it?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> N198KM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock(at)dot.state.ak.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Whoa, hold on there |
John,
Now that you've "sworn off" Sun-n-Bum are you up for yet another Alaska Trip?
If you want to increase your adventure level, come up in July and fly with us to
Russia.
Contact me off list if you want the details. "Kitfoxes to Commie-land" :-)
Scott in Nome
"John E. King" wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> Thanks for the memories. I checked out Circle Hot Springs, Bettles,
> Chena Hot Springs, Fairbanks and Anaktuvuk Pass Airports on the web site
> just for memories sake. We visited these airports on the Alaska trip.
> Recognized every detail. Great web site.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
> Scott McClintock wrote:
>
> >
> >OK, I see I sparked some interest. So before too many of you ask for
> >more "scary" pictures, just go to this link.
> >www.alaska.faa.gov/fai/airports2.htm
> >All the "scary" airports are there and you can get a pretty good idea of
> >the kind of terrain I'm flying over.
> >I think you all will enjoy this.
> >Scott in Nome
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | EAA Briefs OMB/Sport Pilot |
EAA BRIEFS TOP OMB OFFICIALS ON SPORT PILOT
Response to EAA-initiated petition impresses federal agency
April 29, 2004 - EAA continued the final push to make the new sport
pilot/light-sport aircraft regulations a reality on Wednesday, as EAA's Vice
President of Government and Industry Programs, Earl Lawrence briefed top
officials of the federal Office of Management and Budget in Washington, D.C.
Lawrence told the OMB officials, which included Donald Arbuckle,
Deputy Administrator of Information and Regulatory Affairs, that sport pilot
is the right amount of regulation at the right moment to benefit the general
aviation industry. Lawrence was joined by Phil Lockwood and Eric Tucker,
members of the light aircraft industry who, along with Lawrence, serve on
the ASTM International executive committee that is creating manufacturing
specifications for light-sport aircraft.
"This briefing was very productive for both sides," Lawrence said.
"OMB was particularly impressed at the support of the aviation community for
the sport pilot rule, as indicated by EAA's petition that gathered more than
10,000 signatures and Congressional backing in less than 10 days this month.
It showed how deeply sentiment runs in favor of this new rule among
aviators."
Lawrence delivered the remaining signatures collected on the petition
last weekend through the EAA website, adding to the more than 8,000 already
forwarded to OMB by Congressional leaders late last week.
EAA requested the meeting with OMB earlier this month and was invited
by the agency to present additional background on how the rule would create
opportunities for both individual pilots and the aviation industry in
general. Lawrence also offered OMB the continuing support of EAA, which has
spearheaded efforts to create the sport pilot rule for more than a decade.
"I felt our briefing to OMB on Wednesday helped solidify the
opportunities presented by adoption of the rule," Lawrence said. "We're glad
EAA could support its members by reaching top national policymakers to
provide background and answer their questions on sport pilot. This rule will
promote aviation in many new areas and prepare many people to enjoy flying
as a recreation."
The Federal Aviation Administration, which had pulled the sport pilot
proposal back from OMB late last month to clarify several points, continues
its discussions with OMB to finalize the rule. Once finalized by OMB, the
rule moves forward to final publication.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com> |
Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
"Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The article goes
on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the passenger
was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox according to
a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency Management. Does anyone know
these folks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Lee <thomasleekf(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fire extinguisher |
Last week I have seen two experimentals strapped a Halon fire
extinguisher 2.5"dia x10" between their seats.
I was wondering if there is an engine fire in air, is it possible to
spray the engine since the firewall
is blocking the way.
thomas. Vixen 912 UL, 390 hr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OT: Anything to do in New York? |
Michel,
Here is an advance "WELCOME" to the USA, Hope you have a great time! I'll
be away from the office during that time, so have a good one, and look forward
to hearing from you once back home!
Lots of great people everywhere, probably a few of the others, but there are
a few everywhere:-) I'm sure you will find some "Fox" owners replaying to
your posting.
Elbie, in the NW US
EM Aviation
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Lee Fisher" <fisher(at)osprey.net> |
Just wanted to let everyone know that we have a new e-mail address. 912ksb(at)cableone.net
So put it in your address book.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. King " <kingjohn(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Thomas,
I have a fire extinguisher handy just behind the seat of my Series 6. I
was not intended to put out fires forward of the firewall while in
flight. I want it handy while on the ground or when a fire starts while
taxing. It is also good to have if a fire starts behind the panel or
elsewhere in the cabin at any time. A handy fire extinguisher used
quickly just might save you the horror of standing by while watching
your prized investment quickly go up in flames.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Thomas Lee wrote:
>
>Last week I have seen two experimentals strapped a Halon fire
>extinguisher 2.5"dia x10" between their seats.
>I was wondering if there is an engine fire in air, is it possible to
>spray the engine since the firewall
>is blocking the way.
>
>thomas. Vixen 912 UL, 390 hr.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
Mikey, if you don't take him up on this, I might beat you to it!
:-) Buy a movie on NY, or the Big Apple...........haaarumph. windy
and dirty.............. Take Big John up on his offer, and see DC. More
tourist friendly anyway. Sailboats too.
Sid
---------------------------
Michel,
Too bad you are not going to be near Washington, DC. The new Air &
Space Museum at Dulles Airport just opened earlier in the year and there
is a lot of beautiful aircraft on display. I live in Warrenton,
Virginia just 50 miles west of Washington and would ge glad to let you
fly a Series 6. Something to think about.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <FlyinK(at)efortress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
I have heard of people using tubing to pass thru the firewall and disburse
the extinguisher in the engine compartment. The fire extinguisher can be
left in-place connected to the tubing for FWF use or pulled out and used in
the cabin. Pretty slick idea. Hopefully a FWF fire with a good firewall
will go out after the fuel is shut off so maybe it's not an issue. I dunno.
Glad I can't speak from experience. I've seen a FWF system for sale thru
summit racing but it's 5 lbs I think. Comes with the tubing, not sure if
it's a dual-use system or just engine compartment.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Lee" <thomasleekf(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fire extinguisher
>
> Last week I have seen two experimentals strapped a Halon fire
> extinguisher 2.5"dia x10" between their seats.
> I was wondering if there is an engine fire in air, is it possible to
> spray the engine since the firewall
> is blocking the way.
>
> thomas. Vixen 912 UL, 390 hr.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN(at)cableone.net> |
I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope they
are all right....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
"Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The article
goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the
passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox
according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency Management.
Does anyone know these folks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox on Full Lotus Floats |
Hi Shane,
I haven't received it yet but I definetly would like one and if you don't mind,
I will have it posted on the Full Lotus website.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
From: "Shane Sather" jeffery(at)polarnet.ca Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To:
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox on Full Lotus Floats
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:18:15 -0600 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane
Sather" jeffery(at)polarnet.ca Hello Mark did you get the picture I sent to
you Shane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Arseneault" northernultralights(at)hotmail.com
Full Lotus Floats -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" northernultralights(at)hotmail.com
Would anybody have pics of a Kitfox on Full Lotus
Floats that they would be able to send to me? It would be
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Chaney <mdps_mc(at)swoca.net> |
I live just a few miles from Springboro and have seen nothing related to
this nor do I know this individual. I'm suprised that I don't know of
another Fox so close in the area. I will do some research and get back to
the group if I find out anything.
Mike Chaney
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope they
are all right....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
"Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The article
goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the
passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox
according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency Management.
Does anyone know these folks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Speaking of these extinguishers, can anybody recommend a good multi-purpose,
small, one-time-use unit that is good for both fuel and electrical fires?
Source, price, etc?
Darrel
> I have a fire extinguisher handy just behind the seat of my Series 6. I
> was not intended to put out fires forward of the firewall while in
> flight. I want it handy while on the ground or when a fire starts while
> taxing. It is also good to have if a fire starts behind the panel or
> elsewhere in the cabin at any time. A handy fire extinguisher used
> quickly just might save you the horror of standing by while watching
> your prized investment quickly go up in flames.
> John King
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jareds <jareds(at)verizon.net> |
I ordered a CHT lead for my Rotax 582 EIS from Calif power and it came
with solid wire.
The Rear (original) has regular twisted. Original is showing correct
temp but new one is not?
Is there a difference and where would you get one?
Jared
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jareds <jareds(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CHT Answered |
Here's an answer to my own question. My EIS has a specific lead for
this model that is apparently super short
and requires extension. EIS didnt list a phone number on my
documentation but CPS technician was super knowledgable for a change!!
YIPPEEE........ $50 for a fangled spark plug lead......wow!
jareds wrote:
>
>I ordered a CHT lead for my Rotax 582 EIS from Calif power and it came
>with solid wire.
>The Rear (original) has regular twisted. Original is showing correct
>temp but new one is not?
>Is there a difference and where would you get one?
>
>Jared
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair(at)mindspring.com> |
Mike,
Where is Springboro? Jeff Classic IV Orient, Ohio
> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc(at)swoca.net>
> To:
> Date: 4/30/2004 7:22:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> I live just a few miles from Springboro and have seen nothing related to
> this nor do I know this individual. I'm suprised that I don't know of
> another Fox so close in the area. I will do some research and get back to
> the group if I find out anything.
> Mike Chaney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope they
> are all right....
>
> Blue Skies!!
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
> To: kitfox list
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
>
> "Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The
article
> goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the
> passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox
> according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency
Management.
> Does anyone know these folks?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair(at)mindspring.com> |
I ordered the parts to rebuild my carburetor and another guys on our 912UL's. I
ordered them from Lockwood. That was months ago, either last fall or the beginning
of the year. When asking why I haven't received my parts they say the problem
is with the factory. I'm getting frustrated. Anyone else having problems
getting parts? Jeff Classic IV
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair(at)mindspring.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge extrusions |
For the factory reps, and the owners/builders who have installed and
experimented with the results:
I would like to learn as much as possible about the Mod IV leading edge
extrusions, or the leading edge cuff (whatever) that came out for the Kitfox
Mod IV a/c.
Where on the factory website is the information, pictures and order form?
What is the extrusion designed to do for the older style (Avid and Kitfox)
wing?
Which wing design (airfoil) is it made to compliment, or be used on?
How is it aligned to the chord of the wing?
Do they come with instructions?
Where can one get two of these thingies?
How much are they to purchase and ship?
Has anyone flown their plane without, and then added and noted the
difference(s), and if so, what are the differences?
Does anyone out there have two for sale...................?
What length do they come in?
Do they have to be cloth covered to work with the planform?
Can anybody help me with this?
Will anybody help me with this?
Help?
Sid
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge extrusions |
Hi Sid:
I am going to try and find the letter that I have from Mr. Ribblet that
redesigned the Kitfox wing on the IV (although off the top of my head, I
don't remember what file I put it in. So bear with me if it takes a while).
It explains all of the aerodynamic questions you have. My recollection of
what is there is that adding it to a standard high lift Avid or Kitfox
airfoil will not work as well as the center of lift is changed and it
requires a different airfoil shape on the bottom of the wing to make it
truly effective.
I've always wondered about some of that myself, that's why I investigated it
a long time ago. However, I am a firm believer that the older high lift
airfoil is a lot more capable than people give it credit for. I flew the
Avid Magnum prototype with Jim Raeder back in the mid-90's. It had little
or no trouble doing 125 mph on floats! And a good friend of mine that flies
a Magnum on floats using a Borer (mega climb - S.T.O.L.) prop on it can
pretty easily fly next to my Lake at 115 mph. And he even has his floats
rigged so the wing is in a very high incidence attitude on the water, making
the floats a negative incidence (Major Drag!) in the air. So, he could
easily go faster by just switching props and readjusting float rigging (but
he just loves those 10 second water takeoffs at 1850 lbs along with his
1500+ fpm climb). So I wonder if horsepower isn't the limiting factor more
than the wing? Over the years I've heard many people say the high lift Stol
airfoil just won't go more than a hundred, but the Magnum proves that wrong.
I also have some info on using vortex generators on the bottom of the Avid
stol wing to do some of what is done with that leading edge extrusion. I'll
send that to you also.
Also, check out the website www.rlsa.com for the Eurofox, it is essentially
an Avid C-model that has been converted to aluminum ribs along with the new
airfoil and leading edge extrusions. If you look under the construction
photos you will see the wing prior to covering. Pretty interesting, plus it
might help you to see some of that leading edge install.
Hey, how did you like the bikini clad beauties lounging on the Lake amphib?
Are you wanting a seaplane yet??
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leading edge extrusions
>
> For the factory reps, and the owners/builders who have installed and
> experimented with the results:
>
> I would like to learn as much as possible about the Mod IV leading edge
> extrusions, or the leading edge cuff (whatever) that came out for the
Kitfox
> Mod IV a/c.
>
> Where on the factory website is the information, pictures and order form?
> What is the extrusion designed to do for the older style (Avid and Kitfox)
> wing?
> Which wing design (airfoil) is it made to compliment, or be used on?
> How is it aligned to the chord of the wing?
> Do they come with instructions?
> Where can one get two of these thingies?
> How much are they to purchase and ship?
> Has anyone flown their plane without, and then added and noted the
> difference(s), and if so, what are the differences?
> Does anyone out there have two for sale...................?
> What length do they come in?
> Do they have to be cloth covered to work with the planform?
> Can anybody help me with this?
> Will anybody help me with this?
> Help?
>
> Sid
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Chaney <mdps_mc(at)swoca.net> |
Jeff
Springboro is at the intersection of route 73 and interstate 75 about 10
miles south of Dayton.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Puls
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
Mike,
Where is Springboro? Jeff Classic IV Orient, Ohio
> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc(at)swoca.net>
> To:
> Date: 4/30/2004 7:22:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> I live just a few miles from Springboro and have seen nothing related to
> this nor do I know this individual. I'm suprised that I don't know of
> another Fox so close in the area. I will do some research and get back to
> the group if I find out anything.
> Mike Chaney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope they
> are all right....
>
> Blue Skies!!
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
> To: kitfox list
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
> Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
>
> "Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The
article
> goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the
> passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox
> according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency
Management.
> Does anyone know these folks?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
suggest you check with Bing International. Same day service. They are located in
Kansas and are listed as the sole US agent for Bing carburators.
1-800-309-2464
>
> I ordered the parts to rebuild my carburetor and another guys on our 912UL's.
I
> ordered them from Lockwood. That was months ago, either last fall or the
> beginning of the year. When asking why I haven't received my parts they say the
> problem is with the factory. I'm getting frustrated. Anyone else having problems
> getting parts? Jeff Classic IV
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair(at)mindspring.com
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I ordered the full rebuild kits from Bing They were here in a week.they carry
every part you need . the website is www.bingcarburetor.com
Best David Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
In 2000 when I introduced the RiteAngle 2000 system, my tent was right next
to Bing International. They were from Kansas and good guys. I don't know if
they are still around, but personally I feel they are as they were very customer
orientated.
Sadly the RA-2000 design was not even close to be completed, as I was told
and the design was dropped with many on this list waiting for about 14 months
for delivery of the totally redesigned system. Thanks to those of you that had
faith in my honesty and integrity we are still in business, and have systems
flying worldwide~ a couple even made it to Alaska on Kitfoxes :-)
Elbie
EM Aviation, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | needing some more info....... |
anyone have the Eurofox website or an address to view and see.........
nothing on the search engines?
Sid
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge extrusions |
Check this url again........not the one you meant? Can't search and find
Eurofox site, ceptin' for some photos. Kitfox on steriods, or newer mod 6
1/2?
-----------------
website www.rlsa.com for the Eurofox,
Paul Seehafer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd(at)comcast.net> |
You should try Light Engine Services Ltd." lightengine(at)clearwave.ca
talk to Bob. I have had excellent service and help with them.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Lockwood
>
> I ordered the parts to rebuild my carburetor and another guys on our
912UL's. I ordered them from Lockwood. That was months ago, either last fall
or the beginning of the year. When asking why I haven't received my parts
they say the problem is with the factory. I'm getting frustrated. Anyone
else having problems getting parts? Jeff Classic IV
>
>
> Jeffrey Puls
> pulsair(at)mindspring.com
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <joe(at)arin.k12.pa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge extrusions |
I am going to try and find the letter that I have from Mr. Ribblet that
redesigned the Kitfox wing on the IV
+++++ I have a model 3 with the plastic leading edge extrusion. Mr.
Ribblet said it would help. I have no way to know since I didn't try it
first without the sharper leading edge. I might have a drawing of the
placement but don't know how accurate it is. If I can be of assistance let
me know.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Lee <thomasleekf(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Today I placed an order via the net :
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/halonexting.php
Halon fire extinguisher Model A600, 1.2 lb, $74.25. Not sure if it is
the best choice.
thomas. Vixen 912UL.
>Speaking of these extinguishers, can anybody recommend a good multi-purpose,
>small, one-time-use unit that is good for both fuel and electrical fires?
>Source, price, etc?
>Darrel
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge extrusions |
I have that Joe, but thanks........, that made me wonder why the cuff isn't
sold as an extra or mod from the company and why we (I) can't get any info
on it from anybody..........hmmmn.
Sid
-------------------------
I am going to try and find the letter that I have from Mr. Ribblet that
redesigned the Kitfox wing on the IV
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: needing some more info....... |
"hausding, sid" wrote:
> anyone have the Eurofox website or an address to view and see.........
> nothing on the search engines?
Google gave me this, Sid:
http://www.rlsa.us/eurofox.htm
Hum, I didn't even know that plane existed. It shows how much of a novice I am!
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hausding, sid" <sidh(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | more info....... |
And Thank you Mike, if you need a note to your employer, I 'd be glad to
write about your runny nose................ :-)
--------------------------
"hausding, sid" wrote:
> anyone have the Eurofox website or an address to view and see.........
> nothing on the search engines?
Google gave me this, Sid:
http://www.rlsa.us/eurofox.htm
Hum, I didn't even know that plane existed. It shows how much of a novice I
am! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | The Jury is in Foxers |
OK guys. First off...I want to say thanks for all the great help. If you
recall, my Avid Mark IV was dropping out during the flair for landing. This
problem really added to the challenge of landing a taildragger.
The weather her has been really lousy...wind every day, but this morning it
was just right for a little testing. I bought a 25lb shot bag. I decided to
start by placing it as far aft as possible in the luggage compartment. This
area begins 36" aft of the cabin. After the shot bag was secured, it took
her up for a little spin. As soon as I lowered the nose for cruise I
realized that there was a definate difference in the way the plane was
flying. I had to trim for hands free which lowered the nose a little. Cruise
was a little higher by a couple miles per!
I brought her in for landing and entered the flair. She was smooth as silk!
No tendancy to drop out. The glide to landing w