Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-cu
February 02, 2006 - February 19, 2006
> --
> 23/01/2006
>
>
> --
> 23/01/2006
>
>
> att Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | nameplate location |
Lynn I have heard that it has to be permanently attached to metal on the
airplane. My neighbor had to move his from the removable inspection plate
to get his AW certificate from our inspector. I was thinking of using
aluminum pop rivets on the horizontal stab cover plates. These would allow
me to pass the "permanent" part and yet be removable with a drill. I'll
be listening closely for the best solution as I have yet to attach mine.
Ron NB Or
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: nameplate location
>Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:22:30 -0500
>
>
>Where have you folks attached your nameplates? I've seen them on the
>tail access covers and the cockpit console. It seems like it's up to
>the DAR and what kind of mood he's/she's in, eh? The FAA wants it where
>it "can't be removed during normal service of the plane", so that seems
>to preclude the tail access covers, but I've seen them there on some
>'foxes.
>
>Lynn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: weak compression |
Lowell, thanks for the reply. I rarely run avgas--on cross countrys when mogas
is not available and I always use blended oil.
I admit to being a little goosey because Bob Robertson and I sort of came to the
conclusion to not change out the rocker arm shaft way back when. As I look
over the engine log books I have noted that I am using less pitch now than back
in '96 although the indicated air speed is still right at 105 mph at 5200 rpm.
Not sure that that makes any sense.
I have been flying the new RV9 for the past 6 weeks when weather permits but when
I flew the 'Fox last week I remembered why it was so danged much fun (and guilt
free as well).
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> John, this is a common occurance with my engine. When we were on our way
> to Oshkosh two summers ago, after a fuel stop at Afton , Wyoming, I climbed
> in to move the airplane to a tiedown spot and the starter turned spun the
> engine just like a turbine - four stuck valves. We ran two quarts of ATF
> through it and no stuck valves since. The ATF was a substitute for Marvel
> Mystery Oil as it was not available in town.
>
> My guess that on occasion a valve will not seat completely when cold and as
> I mentioned it is fairly common with my engine. However, when I do the
> compression check - warm engine - at my annual condition inspection, the
> compression on all four cylinders has always been well within limits - 79-80
> psi.
>
> Question, do you run on autogas or avgas or a combination.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: "Kitfox"
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:46 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: weak compression
>
>
> >
> > Bob Robertson....
> >
> > When pulling through the prop on my 912UL, every fourth compression stroke
> > seems to offer less resistance than the other three. I have not done a
> > compression check but am wondering what the toubleshooting steps aught to
> > be. I'll remind you that the rocker arm replacement has not been
> > completed on this engine.
> >
> > John Kerr
> > 700 + hours
> >
> > Bob Robertson....
> >
> > When pulling through the prop on my 912UL, every fourth compression stroke
> > seems to offer less resistance than the other three. I have not done a
> > compression check but am wondering what the toubleshooting steps aught to
> > be. I'll remind you that the rocker arm replacement has not been completed
> > on this engine.
> >
> > John Kerr
> > 700 + hours
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Lowell, thanks for the reply. I rarely run avgas--on cross countrys when mogas
is not available and I always use blended oil.
I admit to being a little goosey because Bob Robertson and I sort of came to the
conclusion to not change out the rocker arm shaft way back when. As I look over
the engine log books I have noted that I am using less pitch now than back
in '96 although the indicated air speed is still right at 105 mph at 5200 rpm.
Not sure that that makes any sense.
I have been flying the new RV9 for the past 6 weeks when weather permits but when
I flew the 'Fox last week I remembered why it was so danged much fun (and guilt
free as well).
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
John, this is a common occurance with my engine. When we were on our way
to Oshkosh two summers ago, after a fuel stop at Afton , Wyoming, I climbed
in to move the airplane to a tiedown spot and the starter turned spun the
engine just like a turbine - four stuck valves. We ran two quarts of ATF
through it and no stuck valves since. The ATF was a substitute for Marvel
Mystery Oil as it was not available in town.
My guess that on occasion a valve will not seat completely when cold and as
I mentioned it is fairly common with my engine. However, when I do the
compression check - warm engine - at my annual conditi
on inspection, the
compression on all four cylinders has always been well within limits - 79-80
psi.
Question, do you run on autogas or avgas or a combination.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <KERRJOHNA(at)COMCAST.NET>
To: "Kitfox"
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:46 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: weak compression
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Bob Robertson....
When pulling through the prop on my 912UL, every fourth compression stroke
seems to offer less resistance than the other three. I have not done a
compression check but am wondering what the toubleshooting steps aught to
be. I'll remind you that the rocker arm replacement has not been
completed on this engine. <
BR>
John Kerr
700 + hours
Bob Robertson....
When pulling through the prop on my 912UL, every fourth compression stroke
seems to offer less resistance than the other three. I have not done a
compression check but am wondering what the toubleshooting steps aught to
be. I'll remind you that the rocker arm replacement has not been completed
on this engine.
John Kerr
700 + hours
List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> |
| Subject: | nameplate location |
As another data point. My inspector OK'ed my point as on the fiberglass,
low and just ahead of the left door. This Series 7 firewall forward has
this fiberglass permanently attached to the frame.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron schick
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: nameplate location
Lynn I have heard that it has to be permanently attached to metal on the
airplane. My neighbor had to move his from the removable inspection plate
to get his AW certificate from our inspector. I was thinking of using
aluminum pop rivets on the horizontal stab cover plates. These would allow
me to pass the "permanent" part and yet be removable with a drill. I'll
be listening closely for the best solution as I have yet to attach mine.
Ron NB Or
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: nameplate location
>Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:22:30 -0500
>
>
>Where have you folks attached your nameplates? I've seen them on the
>tail access covers and the cockpit console. It seems like it's up to
>the DAR and what kind of mood he's/she's in, eh? The FAA wants it where
>it "can't be removed during normal service of the plane", so that seems
>to preclude the tail access covers, but I've seen them there on some
>'foxes.
>
>Lynn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D4608855037&sspagename=3DADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A78
Here's a nice set of skis that should work fine for light model IVs on down.
Deke
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trouble cold starting a 912 |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Started fine this morning at 55F OAT. She was turning over much faster at 350RPM.
For now, I'm going to assume for now that the current battery just isn't up
to the task on cold days. Thanks for all the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9086#9086
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | nameplate location |
Lynn,
I attached my 'data plate' to the fabric right below the left side
access cover on the vertical stab. I riveted it to a back up plate on the
inside of the fabric. Can't take credit for the idea, got that from Don
Smithy I think. It worked out great. The FAA inspectors never even mention
it, which means they approved.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: nameplate location
Where have you folks attached your nameplates? I've seen them on the
tail access covers and the cockpit console. It seems like it's up to
the DAR and what kind of mood he's/she's in, eh? The FAA wants it where
it "can't be removed during normal service of the plane", so that seems
to preclude the tail access covers, but I've seen them there on some
'foxes.
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trouble cold starting a 912 |
According to Lockwood, the cranking speed for the 912 must be 300 RPM or above
in order to create a reliable spark for the engine to start.
Herb Gottelt M4-912UL
Mt. Prospect, IL
wingnut wrote:
Started fine this morning at 55F OAT. She was turning over much faster at 350RPM.
For now, I'm going to assume for now that the current battery just isn't up
to the task on cold days. Thanks for all the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9086#9086
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
I'm a new owner of a 912UL powered Mod IV. I'm having trouble starting
this thing when temperatures approach freezing. I drained my battery this
morning and I didn't get a single pop out of the thing. Even at 60F I
still find that this thing requires a lot of cranking.
Hi ! Luis,
I am a 582 owner and not 912 but I am an electronics technician
and have built about 20 CDI ignition systems of varying types. The Rotax motors
and Jabiru are all types I know of that require minimum RPM to get a spark.
My 582 and a Jabiru are 300 RPM. I suspect your 912 will be the same.
Warming the engine is a good idea. It may be enough to get those RPM's and it
might not. However I do recommend it if you can do it someway.
That motorcycle battery you have is not really good enough. My original battery
was such and from new it only ever just did the job. If I left my plane stand
for a few weeks there is no way it would get 300 RPM to start. It might sound
fine and seem to hang in but it just would not start. I would jump start it
and it would fire up instantly. I changed to an Odyssey battery and the difference
is incredable. I can go on holidays and it starts instantly. Odyssey is
an "Absorbed Glass Mat" battery or aslo called recumbrant etc. There is also other
brands but Odyssey is probably the most common. The reason these batteries
are so superior to a "Flooded Wet Cell" type motorcycle battery is that the
internal resistance is much lower. This gives a lot more cranking power. These
batteries also do not leak even with a cracked case.No box is needed. They can
be mounted anyhow including upside down. I suspect just changing to one of these
batteries will solve your problem. However if your motor and battery are
both very cold that will work against you. We have a 5 year old Odyssey in our
club Jabiru and that does need a little warmth on a real cold morning. An Odyssey
also does not lose charge to anywhere near the extent a Flooded Wet Cell
does when left standing.
Pumping the throttle won't help on your motor because you don't have an accelerator
pump in the carby like carburated automobiles did. Also if the butterfly
is cracked open you won't get your choke or starting circuit to work.
For an Odyssey battery I suggest looking up batteries4everything.com I hope
I have that right ! I'm in Australia but the price for a PC625 Odyssey here
when I bought mine was $270 AU..I got one from the USA via batteries4everything
and my all up cost landed here was exactly half. The $US for the battery as
I remember was $57.42.
Goodluck,
Rex Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Tomlin" <ThomasTomlin(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Engines anyone? |
Hi Michael, I have a little bit of experience with the Jabiru 3300 on my IV
Speedster.
The short answer is I like it a lot.
I have about 75 hours on it since last June and am very pleased with it so
far.
In all honesty it may not be the best fit for this airplane, but I like it
well enough that
I have no regrets.
All choices have a trade off and I went primarily for the long TBO, more HP,
Smooth running 6 cyl, and simpler air cooled design without a radiator and
gear drive.
What I gave up was a larger support base, better cabin heat(radiator), more
prop choices,
slightly lighter weight, and a bit more effort necessary to install a
different engine(time).
Oh yeah...the cost. When I purchased mine (3 years ago) there was only
about $400.00
difference between the 912s and the 3300.
I have a new Sensenich ground adjustable prop that is very nice and I have
just put the
economy kit on my carb, but will not be able to reinstall the carb for at
least a week to
check performance again.
It starts easy, Idles around 800, max cruise currently at 108 mph indicated,
and climbs
very well 800fpm plus at 6,000 density altitude.
I'm currently flying dirty....no wheel pants, 600x6 clevelands, grove gear,
poorly
fabricated lift strut fairings, leaky bubble doors.....
I still have lots of work to do to clean her up.
Tom Tomlin
Greeley Colorado
----- Original Message -----
From: "michael burkhardt" <mjbavid(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines anyone?
>
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with
> Jabiru engines, good bad or otherwise? Regards, Mike
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
I need to preserve my ribs befor covering and was wondering what has been
used by some who have gone before me. My manual says varnish in the
materials required section, but says polyurethane varnish in the chapter.
In the store I find Minwax polyurethane for indoor use and Minwax Helmsman
urethane for outdoor use. Neither say varnish anywhere and neither mention
spraying them. Do I need to find a bigger store? Can I spray these?
Sheesh! not a chemist Ron Nb Ore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Vader" <vadert(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
Ron
I used a clear epoxy varnish. You are protecting the wood from moisture
entering it. It may be prudent to use something sandable and lightly sand
before covering so that the fabric adheres better to it. I think it is
important to pay special attention to the trailing edge nooks and crannys of
the ribs where moisture will gather. Your wings will have drain grommets
where air (moist or otherwise) will enter and exit depending on weather
conditions and leave moisture (humidity) inside the wing. The trailing edge
(lowest point) is where that moisture will pool as the aircraft sits.
Tim Vader
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
>
>
> I need to preserve my ribs befor covering and was wondering what has been
> used by some who have gone before me. My manual says varnish in the
> materials required section, but says polyurethane varnish in the chapter.
> In the store I find Minwax polyurethane for indoor use and Minwax Helmsman
> urethane for outdoor use. Neither say varnish anywhere and neither mention
> spraying them. Do I need to find a bigger store? Can I spray these?
> Sheesh! not a chemist Ron Nb Ore
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ceashman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
>>I need to preserve my ribs before covering and was wondering what has been
>>used by some who have gone before me.
Hello Ron.
It is important to varnish the wood bits to keep moisture and decay out.
When varnishing, brush is better than spray because of all the tight corners,
90 degree angles and things the spray will just bounce back. Slop lots on to
penetrate the wood but avoid flooding and runs too much. Take your time and
enjoy, it is a no brainer but requires patience to make sure all angles are
covered.
When dry use a soft rubber sanding block and sand the areas that fabric will
contact. This smoothes any dirt or any wood fibers that spring out. If it
feels rough, it will look rough under the fabric. When lightly sanding, you break
through. re-coat these areas.
Important!!! Use the epoxy varnish that was supplied with the kit (Polyfiber)
and do not use anything from the hardware store.
If you look at the Polyfiber instruction manual (I think) The boat Spar
varnishes or polyurethane varnishes will not hold up to MEK or the Polybrush that
you will use to stick the fabric down with. It will soften and start to break
down the so called Spar and polyurethane varnishes and the tensile and peel
strength will be much lower.
There are a number of people on this list you can get the Polyfiber Epoxy
varnish from, or from Aircraft Spruce.
Do not use anything but this stuff. One day when flying along and going
through some bouncy sky, you look across the lower wings and see the slight
billowing of the fabric and then you craft drops again. You will think to yourself
"man, am I glad I used the correct epoxy and I am glad I stitched the wings" Not
only that, rib stitching looks very cool.
Happy brushing. Eric.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
Hi Ron,
I had the same question a while back and I went to John McBean w/ the question.
John's direction made sense...He said if I want to be ensured there won't be
a problem in compatibility (chemically) with covering materials, I should go
with proven varnish. I was directed to use EV-400 Epoxy Varnish which is a two
part epoxy and comes in a kit you can get from Aircraft Spruce.
Hope that helps,
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
ron schick wrote:
I need to preserve my ribs befor covering and was wondering what has been
used by some who have gone before me. My manual says varnish in the
materials required section, but says polyurethane varnish in the chapter.
In the store I find Minwax polyurethane for indoor use and Minwax Helmsman
urethane for outdoor use. Neither say varnish anywhere and neither mention
spraying them. Do I need to find a bigger store? Can I spray these?
Sheesh! not a chemist Ron Nb Ore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rkstevens(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
It's ** important ** to use an epoxy varnish (2 part epoxy - as sold by PolyFiber
for example). Otherwise, the MEK in the fabric finishing steps will melt right
through "standard" varnishes. The Poly Fiber finishing systems specify
which varnishes are acceptable.
The best solution is to use an epoxy varnish - it's a little more expensive, but
WAY better.
Ron
>From: Tim Vader <vadert(at)telusplanet.net>
>Date: Thu Feb 02 23:33:04 CST 2006
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
>
>Ron
> I used a clear epoxy varnish. You are protecting the wood from moisture
>entering it. It may be prudent to use something sandable and lightly sand
>before covering so that the fabric adheres better to it. I think it is
>important to pay special attention to the trailing edge nooks and crannys of
>the ribs where moisture will gather. Your wings will have drain grommets
>where air (moist or otherwise) will enter and exit depending on weather
>conditions and leave moisture (humidity) inside the wing. The trailing edge
>(lowest point) is where that moisture will pool as the aircraft sits.
>
>Tim Vader
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:54 PM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
>
>
>>
>>
>> I need to preserve my ribs befor covering and was wondering what has been
>> used by some who have gone before me. My manual says varnish in the
>> materials required section, but says polyurethane varnish in the chapter.
>> In the store I find Minwax polyurethane for indoor use and Minwax Helmsman
>> urethane for outdoor use. Neither say varnish anywhere and neither mention
>> spraying them. Do I need to find a bigger store? Can I spray these?
>> Sheesh! not a chemist Ron Nb Ore
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Boccaccio <charlieboccaccio(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cold starting a 912, maybe bad advice |
Last week, up in the mountains in Mexico's Sierra Madre, the battery in my Kitfox
3 was dead after spending the night with the master on. Ambient temperature
was about 42 F, at 4,000 ft field elevation, so It was cool. I was alone and
had no way of getting a jump. I have a carb primer system that shoots a few drops
of gas into the carbs for start up. So I tied the tail to the tiedown, primed
the carbs, ignition on, throttle 1/4 inch open and gave the prop a quick
turn with my hand (I have experience with hand proping a J3), and on the first
try, the engine started.
My experience with cold starts is usually associated with fuel not getting to
the engine. After I installed the carburator primer, the engine starts always
after cranking the engine no more then 3 prop turns. This saves both battery
life and starter life.
Charlie
Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
According to Lockwood, the cranking speed for the 912 must be 300 RPM or above
in order to create a reliable spark for the engine to start.
Herb Gottelt M4-912UL
Mt. Prospect, IL
wingnut wrote:
Started fine this morning at 55F OAT. She was turning over much faster at 350RPM.
For now, I'm going to assume for now that the current battery just isn't up
to the task on cold days. Thanks for all the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9086#9086
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold starting a 912, maybe bad advice |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Hey! A primer system sounds like just the ticket. Even when things work right,
the 912 still needs alot of cranking before she will start. Can you tell me more
about this system? Is it an 'off the shelf' upgrade I can install on mine?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9390#9390
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Boccaccio <charlieboccaccio(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold starting a 912, maybe bad advice |
The system is made up of a conventional panel mounted primer pump fed off the main
fuel line. A tee coming off the primer pump will split the fuel lines that
lead to the two carbs, make a simple conection just under the air filter or just
before the carb's air intake(depending on how the filters are installed).
I did not use any sort of atomizer. It takes only ONE stroke to sufficiently
prime for a quick start. To try the system out, I first gave it 3 strokes on
the primer and I floaded the engine, but it started rather quickly anyway.
If you need pictures, I can take them for you and send them.
Charlie
wingnut wrote:
Hey! A primer system sounds like just the ticket. Even when things work right,
the 912 still needs alot of cranking before she will start. Can you tell me more
about this system? Is it an 'off the shelf' upgrade I can install on mine?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9390#9390
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | nameplate location |
I made a metal backing plate and attached it to the
tubing on the right side across from the left side
access panels. No problem getting it passed and easy
access to the back side if I need it.
I have seen Aeroncas with it mounted on the top of
the fuselage half way between the wing and tail. Very
easy to read there, but you need a backing plate
mounted to the tubing.
I would suggest not drilling any structural tubing. I
riveted it to the longeron that olds the fabric out on
the side and epoxied it to the lower structural tubing
on mine.
Kurt S. S-5/ NSI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold starting a 912, maybe bad advice |
I have a primer that is extra. Clint
From: Charles Boccaccio <charlieboccaccio(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Cold starting a 912, maybe bad advice
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:22:32 -0800 (PST)
The system is made up of a conventional panel mounted primer pump fed off
the main fuel line. A tee coming off the primer pump will split the fuel
lines that lead to the two carbs, make a simple conection just under the air
filter or just before the carb's air intake(depending on how the filters are
installed).
I did not use any sort of atomizer. It takes only ONE stroke to
sufficiently prime for a quick start. To try the system out, I first gave
it 3 strokes on the primer and I floaded the engine, but it started rather
quickly anyway.
If you need pictures, I can take them for you and send them.
Charlie
wingnut wrote:
Hey! A primer system sounds like just the ticket. Even when things work
right, the 912 still needs alot of cranking before she will start. Can you
tell me more about this system? Is it an 'off the shelf' upgrade I can
install on mine?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9390#9390
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
I have sealed the wood with a good spray coat of polybrush. That way
everything is compatible. It seems to hold up better that the varnish.
Cost is about the same.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flier" <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
Polybrush won't seal wood. Polybrush is a structural adhesive only for
fabric. Epoxy varnish is the only recommended / approved wood sealer for
the Stits Polyfiber process.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & Linda
Daniels
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
I have sealed the wood with a good spray coat of polybrush. That way
everything is compatible. It seems to hold up better that the varnish.
Cost is about the same.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
It might be, but wood I treated with Polyfiber epoxy varnish when left
in a harsh environment for several years went to heck and the stuff
sprayed with polybrush stayed like new. What I did on my plane that was
destine for a harsh environment was brush epoxy varnish and then when
dry spray everything on the wing before covering with polybrush. It
sealed everything very well. Rivets and metal structural joints now can
not hold moisture as they are sealed. It is the same vinyl base as the
polytone paint.
flier wrote:
>
>Polybrush won't seal wood. Polybrush is a structural adhesive only for
>fabric. Epoxy varnish is the only recommended / approved wood sealer for
>the Stits Polyfiber process.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & Linda
>Daniels
>Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 6:02 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
>
>
>I have sealed the wood with a good spray coat of polybrush. That way
>everything is compatible. It seems to hold up better that the varnish.
>Cost is about the same.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks for all of the feedback on the differant sealers. It seems that an
epoxy is the best method, and the polybrush would seal eveything. With
this info I think I will finish all of my structual building with my West
Epoxy, then brush a thin coat as far as the remainder will go on the wood.
Follow this with a good spray coat of polybrush and I'm In them.
Unfortunately in my preparation for covering I have found more damage done
by the former non-builder. My trailing edges ar now removed and I must
replace all of the aluminum backers for the flaperon attachment points,
epoxy the old rivet holes, and drill the new ones in a sraight line. Hope
to be covering in a week or two now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
The pre 7 brackets are drilled by the builder and the because of how
they are assembled a straight line of holes in the wing will cause
binding. It is important to get the brackets matched drilled to the wing
after all the wing angles are set and the wings are on. Even then you
will have to do some small bending of the attach brackets like small S
bends to tune it so it moves nice and easy. When all done painting use
motorcycle chain lube to lube the hinges. Any binding needs to be fixed
for good handling.
If you need to redrill the holes you need to replace the aluminum
reinforcing strips under the cap strip. A better way to go is with the
series 7 type reinforcer which is a cup type bracket that is attached to
the inside back and replaces the aluminum strips with a much more
substantial system. I think John McBean has them of can tell you were to
get them.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald STEVENSON <shericom(at)rogers.com> |
Ron, Your trailing edge aluminum must have been
installed by the same guy that did mine! I had to do
the exact same thing, I also added the 3/8 alum.
tubing to beef them up. Good luck, Don
Don Stevenson, Caledon, Ontario, Canada
M4/1200-912
--- ron schick wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all of the feedback on the differant
> sealers. It seems that an
> epoxy is the best method, and the polybrush would
> seal eveything. With
> this info I think I will finish all of my structual
> building with my West
> Epoxy, then brush a thin coat as far as the
> remainder will go on the wood.
> Follow this with a good spray coat of polybrush
> and I'm In them.
> Unfortunately in my preparation for covering I have
> found more damage done
> by the former non-builder. My trailing edges ar now
> removed and I must
> replace all of the aluminum backers for the flaperon
> attachment points,
> epoxy the old rivet holes, and drill the new ones in
> a sraight line. Hope
> to be covering in a week or two now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flier" <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
I misunderstood Alan. Sorry. The only issue with Polybrush is that it
doesn't adhere well to things other than fabric and itself. If sprayed
thick enough over hard surfaces you can peel it like a film from the
surface. My understanding is that it was formulated to fill weave, provide
bulk/level, and act as a base for the other coatings (MEK based) in the
system. Properly applied epoxy primer & epoxy varnish are the best ways to
go for weather proofing.
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan & Linda
Daniels
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane
It might be, but wood I treated with Polyfiber epoxy varnish when left
in a harsh environment for several years went to heck and the stuff
sprayed with polybrush stayed like new. What I did on my plane that was
destine for a harsh environment was brush epoxy varnish and then when
dry spray everything on the wing before covering with polybrush. It
sealed everything very well. Rivets and metal structural joints now can
not hold moisture as they are sealed. It is the same vinyl base as the
polytone paint.
flier wrote:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ceashman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs: Varnish vs Urethane vs Polyurethane |
-->It might be, but wood I treated with Polyfiber epoxy varnish when left
-->in a harsh environment for several years went to heck and the stuff
-->sprayed with polybrush stayed like new.
Hi Alan.
I think you are correct by saying an epoxy varnish when left in a harsh
environment goes to heck.
2 component epoxy paints do not like sunlight, ultra violet will break down
the paint structure. Normally you will start to notice powdering (chalky).
Then later the paint film will start to show fine cracks. After that water /
moisture creeps through the micro cracks and the wood absorbs this like a wick.
Not long before the epoxy varnish starts crumbling off the rotting wood.
But I think if the wood has adequate film thickness of epoxy and never left
exposed to sun, it should be a sound system.
Eric.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Off list: Norway |
On Feb 4, 2006, at 6:33 AM, ron schick wrote:
>
>
> I apolagise for insulting your Norwegion food Michel. It seems you
> have
> created a dish to recomend when my wife viisits your country in May.
> While
> we are on this topic how would you ask for a large beer as I've heard
> it is
> a hoot! And they say the English language is confusing.
> Ron NB Or
>
Hello again, Ron. Your wife probably won't be able to get lutefisk or
any of the other weird dishes I mentioned because they are only served
in special places and special time, like Christmas. But there are
plenty decent food in Norway ... er, like hamburgers and pizza! :-)
Beer is called "l" in Norwegian. (I couldn't write that on the
Matronic list because it doesn't accept non-English characters). A
large beer would then be: "En stor l." The letter "" is pronounced
like the French "eu" or maybe a bit like the "u" in the word: pub.
Draft beer always come as half liters, in Norway, so your beer will
always be kind of large.
But, as I have said before, virtually everyone speak English in our
country.
Cheers,
Michel
PS: I am originally from Belgium, which is considered THE beer country.
I don't fancy too much Norwegian beer. But, on a hot day, it's
refreshing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Peck <u2drvr(at)dslextreme.com> |
Friends,
I am sad to report that I have decided to sell my beloved Kitfox. I
returned to Beale AFB a few months ago and now I'm back on the
deployment schedule. I'll be spending 5-6 months of the year on the
road with the U-2, so I will not be able to fly my airplane as much
as it deserves. The ad is now on Barnstormers.com and will be in
Trade-a-Plane soon. If you know of anyone interested, spread the
word. You can see it at my website at:
http://web.mac.com/reconman/iWeb/Site/N975EW.html
Thanks,
Brian Peck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
1. I have some steel fittings to connect my bubble door gas springs to the
doors and frames. What kind of preparation is required to paint steel? It
appears part of the fitting is chromed. Is there a way to tell? (I welded
purchased ball end plates to some 4130 tube. The purchased plates are
shiny, but I'm not sure they're chromed.) If chromed, how do I prep for paint?
2. Does anyone have a source for painting in San Diego? I've been trying to
clear coat my instrument panel and center console with disastrous results.
(No clean room.) Would anyone care to recommend a paint shop for a small
clear-coat LP job?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N975EW for sale |
Brian,
I guess we're neighbors now - sort of. As you might recall, I did my first
flight out of Lincoln in 1998. I borrowed Bert Garrisson's hangar at the
time and he was also a U-2 pilot and I later found that he flew the last
operational SR-71 flight. He was one of the new guys after the brief shut
down of the program before the real shut down. His project was a Series V
also. I have since lost track of him.
Anyway, I learned yesterday ther there is a Kitox under construction there
and planned on flying up some good weather day and check the project out.
If you ever need a fix after the Serise V is gone, drop a note. I am
retired now and helping build a Lancair IV, but the owner understands when I
need to fly.
Nice Airplane. Hope to see you on the list from time to time.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Peck" <u2drvr(at)dslextreme.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: N975EW for sale
>
> Friends,
>
> I am sad to report that I have decided to sell my beloved Kitfox. I
> returned to Beale AFB a few months ago and now I'm back on the
> deployment schedule. I'll be spending 5-6 months of the year on the
> road with the U-2, so I will not be able to fly my airplane as much
> as it deserves. The ad is now on Barnstormers.com and will be in
> Trade-a-Plane soon. If you know of anyone interested, spread the
> word. You can see it at my website at:
>
> http://web.mac.com/reconman/iWeb/Site/N975EW.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Peck
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> |
Just make a cardboard box big enough to cover the panel between coats.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Two Questions
1. I have some steel fittings to connect my bubble door gas springs to
the
doors and frames. What kind of preparation is required to paint steel?
It
appears part of the fitting is chromed. Is there a way to tell? (I
welded
purchased ball end plates to some 4130 tube. The purchased plates are
shiny, but I'm not sure they're chromed.) If chromed, how do I prep for
paint?
2. Does anyone have a source for painting in San Diego? I've been trying
to
clear coat my instrument panel and center console with disastrous
results.
(No clean room.) Would anyone care to recommend a paint shop for a small
clear-coat LP job?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Model IV weight/Jabiru |
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Another "big day" for my IV...the weight check. Mine with 2200 Jabiru,
Sensenich wooden prop, and Grove gear came in at exactly 650 pounds,
and amazingly enough, exactly the weight that I guessed, earning me a
free lunch from my tech advisor, who was manning the scales.
Unfortunately for him, he guessed it would be higher. Where does this
weight fall in the "international competition for the word's lightest
Kitfox"? (no Kitfox Lites allowed to enter) : ) The weight was located
at 301 left wheel, 306 right wheel and 43 for the tail. Incidentally, I
had sent my Falcon turn coordinator off for repair/ replacement ( RF
noise), and a can of soup of the correct weight was residing in the
panel at the time. The means of weighing was a set of digital aircraft
scales, rented from a nearby FOB.
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N975EW for sale |
Wow,,, that's a beautiful bird... good luck selling! Thank you for serving our
country too...hopefully we can pinpoint a couple of bearded fellas and drop a
"you know what on them".... God Bless
Semper Fi
1974-1985
Beruit Veteran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "*" <caseclosed66(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Honda Add, a bit off topic, but very cool |
Hi All
Take a look at this honda add. Really neet and all real!
http://www.steelcitysfinest.com/HondaAccordAd.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N975EW for sale |
Hi Brian,
Makes me sad too. Selling the new plane and sticking
with the old..... What will you do for fun without
your Fox? You could stay on the list and watch us
argue over tail wheel spring tension again. :-) And
don't you know that the U-2 is being replaced by large
scale model planes? No career potential there. ;-)
And we have SkyStar-2 just around the corner. Our
modern,high performance plane. Well, more fun anyway.
Honestly, you brought us reality in graphic and
mathametical form for all this time. We wish you
could stay and play some more.
And what a great Fox! I have to climb to at least
10,000 feet to get that true speed. Oh, sorry. That
is a descent for a U-2 pilot..... U-2
nap-of-the-earth at FL 10.
Gonna' miss you. Stay safe over there. Oh, and I
agree with the leaflet drops, but do them over New
York, Calif and the other terrorist support centers.
Save a few for the Conspiracy News Network, Gay B C,
See, BS, and No Body Cares networks too. Without
them, terrorism would be a local event with little
impact on the rest of us. After all, it is just
advertising thru violence and if no body carried it
and no minds would be changed, why would they do it?
Thank you for serving us all here and there.
Kurt S. Semper Fi (USMC Ret)
--- Brian Peck wrote:
> Friends,
>
> I am sad to report that I have decided to sell my
> beloved Kitfox. I
> returned to Beale AFB a few months ago and now I'm
> back on the
> deployment schedule. I'll be spending 5-6 months of
> the year on the
> road with the U-2, so I will not be able to fly my
> airplane as much
> as it deserves. The ad is now on Barnstormers.com
> and will be in
> Trade-a-Plane soon. If you know of anyone
> interested, spread the
> word. You can see it at my website at:
>
> http://web.mac.com/reconman/iWeb/Site/N975EW.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Peck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
I am ready to weld a new tail on my KF 2, splice all 4 longerons and
smaller cross braces together. I was intending to get it mig welded with
ers80-d2 wire but now a few second thoughts. I am now concerned about
brittleness from the concentrated heating. Anyone have any
opinions/experiences with welding this 4130 thin tube? I am leaning more
toward gas acetylene and not sure which filler to use. I welcome all input
Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
Oxy- acetaline helps avoid brittlenes, and your local welding shop should
have the right filler rod for 4130. So I've heard. I welded my motor
mount mig and will relieve it with a torch. Ron NB Ore
>From: Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Kitfox-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: which weld
>Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:29:24 -0600
>
>
>I am ready to weld a new tail on my KF 2, splice all 4 longerons and
>smaller cross braces together. I was intending to get it mig welded with
>ers80-d2 wire but now a few second thoughts. I am now concerned about
>brittleness from the concentrated heating. Anyone have any
>opinions/experiences with welding this 4130 thin tube? I am leaning more
>toward gas acetylene and not sure which filler to use. I welcome all input
>Thanks Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolmbru(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | kit fox 2 -582 true horse power |
I have a 2 finished in 99 w a coweling that fites tite to the fusloge the
mufler fites inside all but the tailpipe it lookes like it was cut to fit
what is the true HP mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
Am I right to suppose you would not be too opposed to using mig on the
longeron tubes if you welded your motor mounts mig? I have a friend that is
a very good mig welder and that is the easiest road for me to get the job
done, but the brittleness thing has me concerned. Some say that I could do
as you said and normalize the weld with a torch and wrap the tubes with
fireblanket to slow the cooling afterward. Does this sound right, and
thanks for your feedback. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Colin Durey" <colin(at)ptclhk.com> |
Mark,
I have recently been investigating welding techniques, more out of
interest than need, especially with regard to welding airframes. (Possible
future project).
I came across a gas welding kit which uses oxy-acetylene, but does so in a
unique way, so as to minimise stress and brittleness, etc. The kit is
called the DHC 2000. I don't know who the original manufacturer is, but
suppose that it is actually a US based company. The address that I have
for the distributor in Australia is: www.amweld.com.au. There are a number
of explanatory video clips available at that site. The only US address I
have is: www.fournierenterprises.com . Have a look at this as it may be of
some help to you in deciding what method to use.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
>
>
> Am I right to suppose you would not be too opposed to using mig on the
> longeron tubes if you welded your motor mounts mig? I have a friend that
> is
> a very good mig welder and that is the easiest road for me to get the job
> done, but the brittleness thing has me concerned. Some say that I could do
> as you said and normalize the weld with a torch and wrap the tubes with
> fireblanket to slow the cooling afterward. Does this sound right, and
> thanks for your feedback. Mark
>
>
Regards
Colin Durey
Pacific Technology Corporation Ltd
+61-418-677073 (M)
+61-2-945466162 (F)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jareds <jareds(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Satellite snap shot of your runway |
Cc: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> My company partners with Google as part of a solution to store and
> instantly retrieve scans and docs.
> Recently we stumbled onto an application offered by Google called
> Google world. You can zoom in on satellite views of your house and
> even rotate them to extrude your landscape. I even took out the
> measuring tool and measured the exact length of my runway. I'ts great
> to post on your website or email to friends coming in for a visit to
> help them orient themselves with real world snapshot of your runway
> and surroundings.
>
> I'ts a free download but in the free version there is only a small
> percentage of really detailed photos from both satellite and aircraft.
> Fortunately my old home outside of DC (in the ADIZ) and my Ranch home
> in South Dakota are both in detailed areas. Ironically enough the
> satellite photo taken of my DC home still had the nearly finished
> shell of my KitFox in the backyard almost ready for flight.
>
> If you would like me to send you an email of the sample file that i
> dumped into photoshop let me know. It will give you and idea of the
> quality and capability before you go through the download. If you
> download yourself take note of the longitdue and latt feature for
> easily finding your destination airports too!!
> Very Very cool.
> My clearances in DC made me privy to some of this technology but I
> think the $400 commercial or even maybe the $20 std version may offer
> more detailed areas. If any of you are interested in going in
> together I'm sure others in less detailed areas would love to help
> defray the cost.
>
> Jared Schott
> VP Marketing / Sales 301 643 6054
> www.prinux.us
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
Mark there are many schools of thought. Most agree that a torch is the
easiest to get good results. Tig is the next choice, but a good mig will
suffice. I don't have a tig hooked up and use propagne / oxy or plasma for
cutting. Ron NB Ore
>From: Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: which weld
>Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:58:26 -0600
>
>
>Am I right to suppose you would not be too opposed to using mig on the
>longeron tubes if you welded your motor mounts mig? I have a friend that is
>a very good mig welder and that is the easiest road for me to get the job
>done, but the brittleness thing has me concerned. Some say that I could do
>as you said and normalize the weld with a torch and wrap the tubes with
>fireblanket to slow the cooling afterward. Does this sound right, and
>thanks for your feedback. Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello. I wanted to put a quick note on here about welding. There is a
really nice book out at Barnes and Noble and others titled "Monster Garage-
how to weld damn near anything" It talks about performance welding in
aircraft adn racecars and dispels many old myths that are handed down
without basis in fact. It covers MIG TIG and Oxy-acetlyn welding..and gives
the benefits and drawbacks to each. It also gives a really nice overview of
troubleshooting where most get into trouble and how to prepare the welding
rig and the metal. Its not a comlete guide to welding, but a good first
read.
Dan
Kitfox went home to Idaho...working on a Stearman.
>From: "Colin Durey" <colin(at)ptclhk.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: which weld
>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:52:56 +1100 (EST)
>
>
>Mark,
>
>I have recently been investigating welding techniques, more out of
>interest than need, especially with regard to welding airframes. (Possible
>future project).
>
>I came across a gas welding kit which uses oxy-acetylene, but does so in a
>unique way, so as to minimise stress and brittleness, etc. The kit is
>called the DHC 2000. I don't know who the original manufacturer is, but
>suppose that it is actually a US based company. The address that I have
>for the distributor in Australia is: www.amweld.com.au. There are a number
>of explanatory video clips available at that site. The only US address I
>have is: www.fournierenterprises.com . Have a look at this as it may be of
>some help to you in deciding what method to use.
>
>Regards
>
>Colin Durey
>Sydney
>
>
> >
> >
> > Am I right to suppose you would not be too opposed to using mig on the
> > longeron tubes if you welded your motor mounts mig? I have a friend that
> > is
> > a very good mig welder and that is the easiest road for me to get the
>job
> > done, but the brittleness thing has me concerned. Some say that I could
>do
> > as you said and normalize the weld with a torch and wrap the tubes with
> > fireblanket to slow the cooling afterward. Does this sound right, and
> > thanks for your feedback. Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Regards
>
>Colin Durey
>Pacific Technology Corporation Ltd
>+61-418-677073 (M)
>+61-2-945466162 (F)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I know we want the best welds, but... the factory used mig on all of our
planes, I havn't seen a problem with that in 20 years now... humm... 22
years.
john Oakley
over a thousand hours in fox's now.. and not nearly enough.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
I sure appreciate everyone's comments and opinions, I believe I will let my
friend give the mig a try on some extra .035 1/2" tube pieces to get a
feel and if he says go , we go. I have heard or read that 100% argon
sheilding gas is recommended over the argon co2 mix. I hate to keep asking
questions butttt. Thanks again Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mscotter" <mscotter(at)comcast.net> |
Hey guys, with so much interest maybe some pics should be posted in the
dropbox. Just an idea.
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
Good point John, I think the pictures I sent the guys will help, But they
may want to take there own measurements.
Jim,N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: <kerrjohna(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
>
> be alert to the fact that the width of the IV's vary some at the tow bar
> carry through points. There are the IV-1050's, the IV-1200, and the IV
> Classic. It might be necessary to make some modifications in order to
> obtain the desired fit.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
>
>>
>> Graeme, I will send you pictures with measurements that should help. I
>> also
>> think you should have the drawing Don has. I think I have seen it and it
>> was
>> a good reference.
>>
>> Jim N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Fultz" <fultz(at)trip.net> |
Colin, Mark and the rest of the gang,
If you do any amount of gas/oxy welding and you purchase and DHC 2000
(formerly Henrob 2000, formerly Dillon)you will not be sorry. I found one
in the fly market at OSH used and snatched it up. One af the best purchases
I have ever made.
Andy F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
Anything is better than co2, but even that will work. I use Argon and
steel mix mainly for stainless. Go for it and test your welds. Ron NB Or
>From: Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: which weld
>Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:59:25 -0600
>
>
>I sure appreciate everyone's comments and opinions, I believe I will let my
>friend give the mig a try on some extra .035 1/2" tube pieces to get a
>feel and if he says go , we go. I have heard or read that 100% argon
>sheilding gas is recommended over the argon co2 mix. I hate to keep asking
>questions butttt. Thanks again Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
Just a side not of interest. When my friend was
welding up his 2/3rds scale Jenny, he changed from gas
to electric welding for some parts near the end.
Building his plane was a chance for him to learn more
and practice his welding, but he got caught by a
routine. When he tried to do his first electric
parts, he couldn't get the arc to stay put on the
weld. He closed the window and turned off the fan.
Fussed with current and tips.
Then it hit him. He was using a magnetic parts tray
to hold the parts. OK for gas, but a pain with
electric. :-) Sometimes it is the little things.....
Kurt S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graeme Toft" <msm(at)byterocky.net> |
Talking of magnetics also Kurt electric welding will, as many of us have
found, introduce a magnetic field into the airframe that can be hard to get
rid of. Some may remember the problem I had with my model 1 when I attempted
to install a compass and got a 15degree swing. I had to degause the airframe
before the compass could be acurrately swung. Just my 2 bobs worth.
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: which weld
>
>
> Just a side not of interest. When my friend was
> welding up his 2/3rds scale Jenny, he changed from gas
> to electric welding for some parts near the end.
>
> Building his plane was a chance for him to learn more
> and practice his welding, but he got caught by a
> routine. When he tried to do his first electric
> parts, he couldn't get the arc to stay put on the
> weld. He closed the window and turned off the fan.
> Fussed with current and tips.
>
> Then it hit him. He was using a magnetic parts tray
> to hold the parts. OK for gas, but a pain with
> electric. :-) Sometimes it is the little things.....
>
> Kurt S.
>
>
> --
> 30/01/2006
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
Numerous Kitfoxes have had broken welds on motor mounts, rudder pedals and
landing gear.
Many of these can be found in the archives and many more have gone
unreported. I don't know all that much about welding, but I wouldn't use mig
in critical high stress areas based upon the failures that I know about.
Cliff
I know we want the best welds, but... the factory used mig on all of our
planes, I havn't seen a problem with that in 20 years now... humm... 22
years.
john Oakley
over a thousand hours in fox's now.. and not nearly enough.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: nameplate location |
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Thanks everybody for all the suggestions about the nameplate/data plate
locations. I finally called my DAR-to-be and he wouldn't approve the
tail access covers, so I made a backing plate and placed it behind the
fabric, below and to the rear of the access cover on the left side, and
far enough rearward to catch the vertical member that I had made to
streamline the fin/rudder junction. This member is aluminum, and I
caught two rivets in it, and the other two go through the fabric and
the backing plate. Very sturdy, and no chance of buffeting, I'm pretty
sure.
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Chaney <mdps_mc(at)swoca.net> |
Sorry to go off topic.
A co-worker of mine is moving to the Bend, Oregon area next month and I told
her and her husband that I may have some contacts through this list to that
area. If anyone in that area wouldn't mind giving her the low-down on that
area I'm sure it would be appreciated.
Please contact me off list at this email address or at poasttown(at)yahoo.com
Thanks
Mike Chaney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would
more then happy to post them if the members are interested.
Jim N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "mscotter" <mscotter(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:21 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
>
> Hey guys, with so much interest maybe some pics should be posted in the
> dropbox. Just an idea.
>
> Mark Scott
> Elkton, MD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:28 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
>
>
> Good point John, I think the pictures I sent the guys will help, But they
> may want to take there own measurements.
>
> Jim,N94JE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kerrjohna(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
>
>
>>
>> be alert to the fact that the width of the IV's vary some at the tow bar
>> carry through points. There are the IV-1050's, the IV-1200, and the IV
>> Classic. It might be necessary to make some modifications in order to
>> obtain the desired fit.
>>
>> John Kerr
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
>>
>>>
>>> Graeme, I will send you pictures with measurements that should help. I
>>> also
>>> think you should have the drawing Don has. I think I have seen it and it
>>> was
>>> a good reference.
>>>
>>> Jim N94JE
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mscotter(at)comcast.net |
Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to all
the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from engines,
to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with the kitfox.
Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent more than one
late night checking out the great ideas in there. The address is:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main
I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can put things
up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than emailing the
same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it benefits us all.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
>
> Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would
> more then happy to post them if the members are interested.
>
> Jim N94JE
Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to all
the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from engines,
to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with the kitfox.
Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent more than one
late night checking out the great ideas in there. The address is:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main
I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can put things
up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than emailing the
same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it benefits us all.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jim Burke jeburke94je(at)direcway.com
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke
Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I would
more then happy to post them if the members are interested.
Jim N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
Thanks Mark, I have Been there done that,I guess the words drop box had me a
little confused. I will post some pictures of my tow bar yet this week, for
the ones that are interested to view.
Jim, 94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: <mscotter(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tow Bar
>
> Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to
> all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from
> engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with
> the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have
> spent more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The
> address is:
>
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main
>
> I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can
> put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than
> emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it
> benefits us all.
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
>
>>
>> Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I
>> would
>> more then happy to post them if the members are interested.
>>
>> Jim N94JE
>
> Jim, the dropbox is a repository for kitfox list stuff that is of value to
> all the membership. There is a wealth of info in there on everything from
> engines, to interiors, panels, trailers, and basically anything to do with
> the kitfox. Get ready to blow a few hours sifting through it. I have spent
> more than one late night checking out the great ideas in there. The
> address is:
>
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main
>
> I've never added anything to it, but as far as I know any list member can
> put things up in the dropbox. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than
> emailing the same thing to a bunch of different people, and then it
> benefits us all.
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Jim Burke jeburke94je(at)direcway.com
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke
>
> Hi Mark, What are you calling the drop box? I have some pictures and I
> would
> more then happy to post them if the members are interested.
>
> Jim N94JE
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Trailing edge mod |
The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing to
my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was
wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No
3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow
shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds(at)Chartermi.net> |
Mark,
I repaired the aft section of my Model 5 fuselage using mig, I contacted the
factory and asked what wire they were using and bought the exact wire. I
copped all joints / clusters for a tight fit, I used straight burrs of
various sizes in my drill press with a block of wood clamped on the table as
a steady rest (crude but effective). I then emery papered and de-burred the
ends before assembly. Before welding I pre-heated the joints. I would always
cut the end of my wire before starting my weld so the bead that was left
from the last weld was gone. After all was welded I used a heavy black sand
(can't remember the name) to sand blast all the tubing and especially the
weld joints (has some stress relieving attributes) before priming and
painting. I am very happy with the results. One last thing, I used our
local EAA Chapter tech counselor as a resource, he is an A&P and an
inspector so he checked my work along the way, made sure I didn't do
something dumb. And yes, practice is good. What I found was as I built
clusters they required more attention to pre-heat and weld technique as the
mass would tend to weld cold if you did not direct your arc heat there as
opposed to the tube you were adding to the cluster, hope that makes sense to
you.
Good luck, and have fun!!
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: which weld
>
>
> I sure appreciate everyone's comments and opinions, I believe I will let
> my
> friend give the mig a try on some extra .035 1/2" tube pieces to get a
> feel and if he says go , we go. I have heard or read that 100% argon
> sheilding gas is recommended over the argon co2 mix. I hate to keep asking
> questions butttt. Thanks again Mark
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge mod |
I used the expandable foam. Just prayed it in let it over flow, and cut it
off with a razor blade. Just get the regular type not the super expand type.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod
>
>
> The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing
> to
> my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was
> wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No
> 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow
> shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge mod |
| From: | "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net> |
I installed 5/16 tubing, zero clearance between ribs. (3/8 tubing would not quite
fit my trailing edge) The tubing is available from ACS. I used a full 350
degree heat shrink and I could still see a very slight deformation in that
trailing edge.
--------
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10689#10689
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tow Bar pictures |
I have posted pictures of my tow bar on sportFlight in trailers and towing.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1139351404
If someone wants to build there own I hope the pictures help. I would think
you would want to do your own measurements for you plane to make sure it
fits correct. Mine is a mod. IV-1200.
Jim,N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge mod |
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
3/8" arrow shafts, Ron? Wow, that seems huge. My Dad was an archer and
I've got a lot of his old arrows around here, mostly fiberglas, and
none are over 5/16".
I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a 3/8" arrow! : )
Anyway, I got 3/8" tubing from Aircraft Spruce, 6061-T6, item
#03-35500, $.99/ft., and I got two 12 ft lengths of it, because mine is
a Speedster with wings just 12' long each. I cut each to fit between
the ribs/rib caps.
Skystar manual calls for .028-.035" wall thickness. This is in the
Classic IV manual, Aug '03 revision. With this stiffening, SS says you
can go to 350 degrees on the fabric....that seems like a bit much to
me, and I quit at 310...very tight.
As far as how close to the ribs, I left mine short about 1/8" to allow
for any condensation to be free to find the drain holes in the fabric.
I smeared structural adhesive the length of the individual tubes, then
rolled them in the trailing edge, and rotated them to spread the epoxy.
Lynn
On Tuesday, February 7, 2006, at 04:32 PM, ron schick wrote:
>
>
> The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum
> tubing to
> my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I
> was
> wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips?
> No
> 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow
> shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge mod |
Is there a link I have missed with a picture of the installation?
Thanks, Paul
=============
At 02:17 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote:
>
>I installed 5/16 tubing, zero clearance between ribs. (3/8 tubing would
>not quite fit my trailing edge) The tubing is available from ACS. I used
>a full 350 degree heat shrink and I could still see a very slight
>deformation in that trailing edge.
>
>--------
>Vic Baker
>Series 7
>Carson City, Nevada
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10689#10689
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Trailing edge mod |
Ron,
We did this on the Series 7 and then again on the Sport.. It became part of
the manual shortly after... .375 x .035 wall aluminum tubing cut to fit
just inside rib to rib.. Watch the edges.. there is a Hysol bead that will
keep the tubing too high.. After you get them fitted use Hysol to bond them
in and then rivet to the inside edge... Shrunk to 350 on several different
aircraft including the factory aircraft.. worked great.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ron schick
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailing edge mod
The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum tubing to
my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I was
wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips? No
3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow
shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
That is good info, I don't have any clusters to make I bought the aft 5 ft.
of a kf 4 and will inner splice the longerons and outer splice the 3/8"
cross braces between the two rear clusters. So you didn't post heat the
welds at all? I had planned to preheat the weld area just too hot to touch
and maybe post heat about the same and wrap with fireblanket to slow cool.
I bet you don't remember the wire type and which gas you used do you?
Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Flynn <hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge mod |
3/8" arrow shafts, Ron? Wow, that seems huge. My Dad was an archer and
I've got a lot of his old arrows around here, mostly fiberglas, and
none are over 5/16".
I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a 3/8" arrow! : )
Anyway, I got 3/8" tubing from Aircraft Spruce, 6061-T6, item
#03-35500, $.99/ft., and I got two 12 ft lengths of it, because mine is
a Speedster with wings just 12' long each. I cut each to fit between
the ribs/rib caps.
Skystar manual calls for .028-.035" wall thickness. This is in the
Classic IV manual, Aug '03 revision. With this stiffening, SS says you
can go to 350 degrees on the fabric....that seems like a bit much to
me, and I quit at 310...very tight.
As far as how close to the ribs, I left mine short about 1/8" to allow
for any condensation to be free to find the drain holes in the fabric.
I smeared structural adhesive the length of the individual tubes, then
rolled them in the trailing edge, and rotated them to spread the epoxy.
Lynn
On Tuesday, February 7, 2006, at 04:32 PM, ron schick wrote:
>
>
> The consensus of the group was that I should add the 3/8" aluminum
> tubing to
> my trailing edge before covering. As my manual does not cover this I
> was
> wondering how close to the ribs this should come. Any other tips?
> No
> 3/8" aluminum tubing in my town, but lots of used 3/8" aluminum arrow
> shafts. Thanks. Ron NB Ore
>
>On my S5 I used the the aluminum tubing off an old TV antnna. It was vary stiff
and light. I flattened one end to fit into the trailing edge and shaped the
other end to butt up to the rear wing spar.I placed them half way between each
rib and used glue to hold them in place.I heat shrunk my fabric to 375 with no
visable scaloping.
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT(at)msn.com> |
A friend of mine gave me a pair of brand new Air Trac 8.00-6 tires. I have a model
IV 1200 with a 912uls. Want to try these tire out. They look much like
the old slick tires but with lined tread. Anyone tried these before and was results
good?
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org> |
| Subject: | engine mount rubber pieces |
I am installing my 912 on my '95 model Classic IV.
The engine mount rubber pieces are 11 years old now. The engine has never been
hung on them but they are installed in the mount as per the manual.
I imagine they would need to be replaced. Could someone stear me to a source to
purchace new? Does ACS have them?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org> |
| Subject: | engine mount steel bushing |
I seem to recall a procedure to shorten the steeel bushing in the engine mount
to affectivly tighten the engine mount bushings more. Anyone else remember this?
Was it a service bulletin? or letter?.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " jablackwell" <jablackwell(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount rubber pieces |
I think John McBean has them.
Do change them now. I just finished changing mine. A real pain.
Jimmie
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:34:45 -0500
>
>I am installing my 912 on my '95 model Classic IV.
>The engine mount rubber pieces are 11 years old now. The engine
has never been hung on them but they are installed in the mount as
per the manual.
>I imagine they would need to be replaced. Could someone stear me
to a source to purchace new? Does ACS have them?
>Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount steel bushing |
I do remember that if your were upgrading the 912 mount, then the shorter steel
bushings were the required ones. You can shorten yours, I would have to look
at my specs to see what the new size was.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Walmsley<mailto:n93hj(at)numail.org>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: engine mount steel bushing
I seem to recall a procedure to shorten the steeel bushing in the engine mount
to affectivly tighten the engine mount bushings more. Anyone else remember this?
Was it a service bulletin? or letter?.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "scooby harrington" <scoobytrash(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Recommended mods to my series 6 before covering? |
I'm almost ready to cover now and I wanted to make sure that
I've added all the mods that people have recommended over
the years, here are the mods I have done:
1) reinforced horiz stab trim motor housing
2) added digital readout for trim position to replace
coil spring/pull cable indicator
3) reinforced wing trailing edge with 3/8" tubing
4) reinforced both seats with strap slings to keep seats
from contacting control tubes on hard landings
5) replace leakage prone hard plastic gas sighting tubes
I did the flapperon rigging and elevator rigging figuring it
would be much easier to do this before things got covered up,
I also installed the cargo floor for the same reason. I havent
done any of the firewall forward installation or instrument panel
work but it doesnt look like that will be any more difficult
after the bird is covered, is that accurate?
Anything that you wish you did before covering?
Thanks for your help!!!!
Scooby Harrington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Structural adhesive |
Also, what is "structural adhesive"? And where can I get this?
Thanks again
Bradley
KF2 N1836
Middle GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Flaperon side to side play |
Hi Folks,
The flaperons on my Model 2 slide side to side about 1/8" in the bushings.
Is this normal? They've had the SB done with the rivets in the bushings, so
it's not the hangers or the bushings moving. I can't see any way to stop the
movement easily. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Bradley
KF2 N1836
Middle GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount rubber pieces |
Remember to check the length on the bushings in the mounts. This puts more
squeeze on the rubber less shake.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
>
> I am installing my 912 on my '95 model Classic IV.
> The engine mount rubber pieces are 11 years old now. The engine has never
> been hung on them but they are installed in the mount as per the manual.
> I imagine they would need to be replaced. Could someone stear me to a
> source to purchace new? Does ACS have them?
> Thanks
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaperon side to side play |
Bradley,
On the Mod IV at the most inboard hinge bracket there is an aluminum ring
that is riveted inboard of the bushing that reduces side play. This is at
the location of the attachment of the flaperon horn.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon side to side play
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> The flaperons on my Model 2 slide side to side about 1/8" in the bushings.
> Is this normal? They've had the SB done with the rivets in the bushings,
> so
> it's not the hangers or the bushings moving. I can't see any way to stop
> the
> movement easily. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bradley
>
> KF2 N1836
>
> Middle GA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT(at)msn.com> |
I have two sets of the original Douglas wheels, one with the brake rotors attached
new tires and tubes on both!! also have the plastic header tank with fittings
and (1) firewall portion engine mount for 912ul all for sale. Make me a
good offer. Changing wheels out to new set-up.
Ray
(301) 518-2262
KITFOXPILOT(at)MSN.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> covering? |
| Subject: | Re: Recommended mods to my series 6 before covering? |
At 07:47 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote:
>I havent
>done any of the firewall forward installation or instrument panel
>work but it doesnt look like that will be any more difficult
>after the bird is covered, is that accurate?
I recommend building your ENTIRE AIRCRAFT before covering. (Obviously there
are a few things that can't be done before covering, but not many.) I am
finishing a IV that was beautifully covered and painted before completion,
and it's unnecessarily painful. Wouldn't it be nice to weld a tab here? It
would have been a great idea to put a conduit there. Too many regrets.
Model aircraft are regularly completed before covering, I think a Kitfox is
no different. It will also save a lot of wear and tear on the paint job,
not to mention the holes you'll punch when you drop a tool, etc. The only
concern is that you make allowances for fabric thickness when you finish
pieces. My aircraft had the wings meticulously aligned without fabric, and
the fuselage butt ribs fabricated to exactly match the wing butt ribs.
OOPS! Once the wings were covered, the wing butt ribs were now 3/32" larger
and the wings would no longer fit on the fuselage! (I had to go back and
route the fuselage butt ribs.)
Build the entire airplane. Completely disassemble. Paint. Re-assemble. It
sounds like more work, but it will save time in the long run.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Structural adhesive |
At 04:12 AM 2/9/2006, you wrote:
>Also, what is "structural adhesive"? And where can I get this?
Structural adhesive is simply high strength glue. It comes in a variety of
formulations, but generally has a shear strength of 2000 psi or greater,
and a peel strength of 20 pli or greater. They are called structural
because they are used as primary structure. There are a wide variety of
formulations, the most common being epoxy based, but there are also
acrylic, methacrylate, cyanoacrylate, and many others. They are made by a
variety of manufacturers, including Hysol and 3M for epoxy, and Plexus for
methacrylate. The various formulations are a result of the diversity of
cost/performance/application requirements.
For Kitfox assembly Aircraft Spruce is probably your most convenient
supplier; they sell the Hysol 9430 epoxy adhesive, which has very good
properties. You can probably get them locally, but it would be a specialty
supplier.
Do not confuse adhesive with resin. The latter can be used as a glue, but
has much poorer peel characteristics. Also avoid using the epoxies you get
in the little tubes at Home Depot. Close inspection will reveal tensile
strengths less than 2000 psi versus more than 5000 psi for the Hysol
product. (They do sell an acrylic adhesive with 4000 psi tensile, but it's
working time is about 15 seconds, too short for anything but very small tasks.)
Guy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Landucci" <lou(at)rkraney.com> |
| Subject: | engine mount rubber pieces |
Good day:
I have a Kitfox 912S installation. How tight do I make the cassle
nuts that contain the rubber engine mounts?
Lou Landucci
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Peerenboom
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
Remember to check the length on the bushings in the mounts. This puts more
squeeze on the rubber less shake.
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
>
> I am installing my 912 on my '95 model Classic IV.
> The engine mount rubber pieces are 11 years old now. The engine has never
> been hung on them but they are installed in the mount as per the manual.
> I imagine they would need to be replaced. Could someone stear me to a
> source to purchace new? Does ACS have them?
> Thanks
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Recommended mods to my series 6 before covering? |
Hi Scooby,
That is a good list.
I origionally planned to do only 2 mods on mine, but
ended up with 18 and should have done more. Many of
mine were engine specific, but here are a few that you
might like that I did, or wish I did:
1. Rudder peddles reinforced to prevent breaking.
2. Blind nuts under rudder peddle mounts so you can
remove them from the top without removing the
firewall/heat shield and cutting your fabric.
3. Safety cables on the brake cylinders to prevent
them from extending and jamming the rudder peddles if
the "C" clip comes out.
4. Make sure you have stainless rudder
cables/fittings. I had to change mine out.
5. I changed the quarter windows to single piece
frames I made. No rough joints or rivets.
6. My baggage floor was too close to the elevator
push tube and would rub with weight on it. Add washer
clearance to the floor bottom, back mounts, or enlarge
the floor opening for the pushtube.
7. Blind nuts for baggage floor mounts.
8. Access panels below main tank output fittings so
you can remove the 90 degree fittings easily to
inspect and clean strainers.
9. Some method of cleaning up the verticle tail
transition so that it doesn't have such a hard break
to the tail access panels. Not aerodynamic as is. I
made a foam fairing for mine.
10. Gap seals for both the verticle and horizontal
rudder/elevator gaps. I made the rudder gap only 1/8"
with foam, but should have done the elevator the same
way. I like gap seals better than tape.
11. Stronger tail wheel mount. The welded on flat
plate at the tail that holds the 2 rear spring bolts
is a weak point. I made a bridge and enlarged the
bolts.
12. Better fuel tanks venting. I am tired of the
stains!
13. A quick drain from the header tank so I can
quickly drain the wings and header for maintenance or
wing fold.
14. Install John McB's under seat storage box for
additional space and seat strength.
15. Add more aluminum spreader tubes diagonally
between the tail frame tubes. The tail framing should
be kept as straight as possible, but fabric tension
can bow it in. Even a little bowing weakens the tail
strength. Watch your fabric temps just like for wing
trailing edges.
16. A few extra wires to the wing tips. If you break
a wire, switch to one that works for lights. Or add a
plastic tube you can push new wires thru and remove
the old wires. I have one spare wire per side.
Just some of what I could think of now Scobby. There
has to be others. Hope that helps.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- scooby harrington wrote:
> I'm almost ready to cover now and I wanted to make
> sure that
> I've added all the mods that people have recommended
> over the years, here are the mods I have done:
>
> 1) reinforced horiz stab trim motor housing
> 2) added digital readout for trim position to
> replace coil spring/pull cable indicator
> 3) reinforced wing trailing edge with 3/8" tubing
> 4) reinforced both seats with strap slings to keep
> seats from contacting control tubes on hard landings
> 5) replace leakage prone hard plastic gas sighting
> tubes........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount steel bushing |
Yes, shortening the steel bushing tightens the engine to the frame. The new dimension
is 0.92".
Jim Shumaker
Brett Walmsley wrote:
I seem to recall a procedure to shorten the steeel bushing in the engine mount
to affectivly tighten the engine mount bushings more. Anyone else remember this?
Was it a service bulletin? or letter?.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp(at)wcc.net> |
| Subject: | Firewall Edge Strip |
Sometime near the end of Dec. there was a small discussion about a
firewall edge seal. I finally got around to ordering some samples from
JC Whitney, and eventually ordering what is called Push-On
Weatherstrip. In the catalog I have its on page 87, and the part number
is 132565. It sells in only 25 ft. rolls at $29.99. I used 7 ft. With
little adjustment it fit my firewall very well. If anyone is interested
I have 18 ft. left and will sell it all for $20. plus shipping. Or I'll
sell 9 ft. for $10 bucks plus shipping. I'm also waiting for a shipment
of a seal that I think will fit onto the top edge of the cowl that fits
against the windscreen. In the same catalog and on the same page its
part number 812914. Just for drill I tried the burn test on the
original seal and the JCW seal. They both burn.
Later. Norm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMuller589(at)aol.com |
Your questions lead me to believe you need to look at the welding techniques
and methods of splicing specified in aircraft circular AC 65-15A. This is
the AIRFRAME AND POWERPLANT MECHANICS AIRFRAME HANDBOOK, esp pages 276, and
figures 6-38, 6-39, 6-40, 6-41 et al for spice joints and pages 269 plus for
welding techniques. There have also been several articles on the advantages and
annealing techniques for the TIG, MIG, and gas welding of aircraft tubing in
Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.. Basically what these said AS I RECALL Generally
they recommend post weld annealing with gas for welds made using gas and TIG
since the heat is less concentrated than MIG. Even the articles in Kitplane
and Sport Aviation have some arguments pro and con on the annealing process
so I would anneal with gas if it were me. According to AC-65 you should use
internal splicing if you need to avoid bulges where surface smoothness is a
factor (i.e. under fabric).AC 65-15 and Kitplane and Sport Aviation address
all welding techniques. WORD OF MOUTH has it that NASA recently adapted a
welding policy that requires "coat hangar" type welding rod with more generous
beads than before for aircraft and spacecraft tubing, and post weld annealing.
Annealing is much higher temperatures than you seem to think. Stress relief
as quoted from the LINCOLN welding manual is"The stress relief range for most
carbon steel is 1100 to 1200 deg F and the soaking time is usually one hour
per inch of thickness.", These are not difficult procedures and are probably
what you intended but should relieve your mind of all doubts. Splicing Tubing
by Inner Sleeve Method should be used
If the damage to a structural tube is such that a
partial replacement of the tube is necessary, the
inner sleeve splice shown in figure 6-41 is recommended,
especially where a smooth tube surface is
desired. A diagonal cut is made to remove the damaged
portion of the tube, and the burrs are removed
from the edges of the cut by filing or similar means.
A replacement steel tube of the same material and
diameter, and at least the same wall thickness is
then cut to match the length of the removed portion
of the damaged tube. At each end of the replace.
ment tube a l/s-in. gap should be allowed from the
diagonal cuts to the stubs of the original tube.
A length of steel tubing should next be selecteddiameter equal to the inside
diameter of the damaged
tube. This inner tube material should be fitted
snugly within the original tube. Cut two sections of
tubing from this inner-sleeve tube material, each of
such a length that the ends of the inner sleeve will
be a minimum distance of one and one-half tube
diameters from the near-t end of the diagonal cut.
If the inner sleeve fits very tightly in the replacement
tube, the sleeve can be chilled with dry ice or
in cold water. If this procedure is inadequate, the
diameter of the sleeve can be polished down with
emery cloth. The inner sleeve can be welded to the
tube stubs through the +&in. gap, forming a weld
bead over the gap.
of at least the same wall thickness and of an outside
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greaves" <tenorio41(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Hinge Pin Staking |
What the best method for staking the pins in my elevator trim hinges?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hinge Pin Staking |
| From: | "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net> |
Just don't do what my neighbor advised me to do and try to stake them with a punch.
I made a mess of mine. Ed Downs of Skystar advised just making a 90 degree
bend at each hinge pin end. Maybe John McBean will give us an input here.
--------
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11333#11333
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge Pin Staking |
Assuming you are not going to remove the pins for inspections etc. A
recommended method at Lancair is to cut the pin a little short. Insert it
so it is short on both ends in the hinge and then just tap the end a bit
with a hammer to creat a crimp.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:02 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hinge Pin Staking
>
> Just don't do what my neighbor advised me to do and try to stake them with
> a punch. I made a mess of mine. Ed Downs of Skystar advised just making
> a 90 degree bend at each hinge pin end. Maybe John McBean will give us an
> input here.
>
> --------
> Vic Baker
> Series 7
> Carson City, Nevada
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11333#11333
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount steel bushing |
Thanks Jim.
I will do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Shumaker" <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine mount steel bushing
>
>
> Yes, shortening the steel bushing tightens the engine to the frame. The
> new dimension is 0.92".
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
> Brett Walmsley wrote:
>
> I seem to recall a procedure to shorten the steeel bushing in the engine
> mount to affectivly tighten the engine mount bushings more. Anyone else
> remember this? Was it a service bulletin? or letter?.
> Brett
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank & Phyllis" <frank.phyllis(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Hinge Pin Staking |
I drilled holes in the hinge, cut the pens short, and safety wired them
for ease of removal.
Frank
Series 7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greaves
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 6:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Hinge Pin Staking
What the best method for staking the pins in my elevator trim hinges?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge Pin Staking |
Frank,
I like this idea. Thanks.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank & Phyllis" <frank.phyllis(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Hinge Pin Staking
>
>
> I drilled holes in the hinge, cut the pens short, and safety wired them
> for ease of removal.
> Frank
> Series 7
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greaves
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 6:24 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Hinge Pin Staking
>
>
> What the best method for staking the pins in my elevator trim hinges?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Lawrence" <pslawr(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Upgrading a model IV-1050 to a Model IV-1200 |
Does anyone have a copy of this mod.
I got one from Skystar several years ago. It talked about upgrading the
tubing size of the bridge under the seat between the spar attach points.
I am now ready to do the mod and I have lost the paperwork.
Can anyone help?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
I have had those on my Model IV for over 800 hours. Great, needs about 12
or 13 lbs of air. Clint
From: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tire Question
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:28:11 -0500
A friend of mine gave me a pair of brand new Air Trac 8.00-6 tires. I have
a model IV 1200 with a 912uls. Want to try these tire out. They look much
like the old slick tires but with lined tread. Anyone tried these before
and was results good?
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Leaking aluminum fuel tank |
Hi Lowell
I always enjoy reading your posts. You have excellent advise based
on sound experiance.
I just discovered that one of my fuel tanks is leaking from the top.
It is not from the filler neck so must be a pinhole from another part
of the tank. Do I remember correctly that you also had som leaking in
your tanks? Did you recream them? Did that work? Did you remove the
tank or just slosh the whole wing?
Thanks for the help.
Jim Shumaker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount rubber pieces |
190 inch pounds
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Landucci" <lou(at)rkraney.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
>
> Good day:
> I have a Kitfox 912S installation. How tight do I make the cassle
> nuts that contain the rubber engine mounts?
>
> Lou Landucci
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Peerenboom
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:14 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
>
>
>
> Remember to check the length on the bushings in the mounts. This puts more
> squeeze on the rubber less shake.
>
> Paul N102DG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:34 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: engine mount rubber pieces
>
>
>>
>> I am installing my 912 on my '95 model Classic IV.
>> The engine mount rubber pieces are 11 years old now. The engine has never
>> been hung on them but they are installed in the mount as per the manual.
>> I imagine they would need to be replaced. Could someone stear me to a
>> source to purchace new? Does ACS have them?
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
----- Forwarded by Mark Summers/LWB/WRE/Lhoist on 02/12/2006 09:01 AM -----
To:
cc:
02/10/2006 06:40 Subject: WELDING 4130
PM
I received this from another reader that has been giving some experienced
advice just wanted to get another opinion and idea on the posting about
welding.
Mark ,
We spoke about welding.............
ANNEALING WILL SOFTEN YOUR METAL AND YOU ONLY WANT TO NORMALIZ to 800 to
900F .
I have been welding gas tig and mig for over 30 years ...........
Good luck,
Dave
Annealing increases ductility and removes stresses from formed or part
formed material, producing a large-grained structure, making the metal less
tough and easier to machine or cold-form. The process involves heating to a
suitable temperature, soaking at that temperature to create a stable
structure, then allowing the metal to cool very slowly.
The heat treatment condition is often identified by the letter 'A'
[annealed] or 'N' [normalised] after the alloy designation [4130 N] or a
code like '4130 QT900F' which indicates that the alloy has been quenched
and
then tempered at 900 F. Scratchbuilders use 4130 in the normalised
condition.
If it is necessary to recover full normalised strength in the joint areas
affected by welding members into an airframe, 4130 N tube structures have
to
be re-normalised. This is done by re-heating those heat affected zones,
with
an oxy-acetylene torch for example, to a temperature around 800/850 C and
then allowing the metal to cool slowly. The process must be carried out in
still air at normal temperature and some jigging may be required to prevent
distortion in the frame. Re-normalising will also relieve the heat
expansion/contraction stresses induced in the tubing near the weld. Pure
stress relieving, without re-normalising, occurs at temperatures around
650/700 C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: looking for tailwheel spring
>
> Thanks for the info, I am inner splicing the 1/2" with 7/16" .049 tube
and
> outer splicing the 3/8" cross members with 7/16" .028 tube. Leaving 1/8"
> gap between the 30 degree cuts in the 1/2 tubes to weld and also 1/4"
> rosettes on each side of the splices. The inner splices are 4" long. what
> do you think any suggestions I am definitely open to all ideas before I
> weld. Thanks
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net> |
Group,
Installing spinner on the KF... Have a 3blade wooden GSC prop - I can find the
best torque specs for the prop 75-100in lbs - but having a hard time pinning down
the Hub Flange torque specs??? Anyone know?
Also, would regular AN4 bolts with Head drilled provide the same strength and purpose
than regular "Prop Bolts" ? Believe they are all Grade 8 regardless.. so
if right size, does it matter ??
thanks
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric" <iworonko(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WELDING 4130 |
Great info but how do you tell at what temperature the material is at when
you are heating it with a torch?
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
>
>
> ----- Forwarded by Mark Summers/LWB/WRE/Lhoist on 02/12/2006 09:01
> AM -----
>
> > To:
>
> cc:
> 02/10/2006 06:40 Subject: WELDING 4130
> PM
>
>
> I received this from another reader that has been giving some experienced
> advice just wanted to get another opinion and idea on the posting about
> welding.
> Mark ,
>
> We spoke about welding.............
>
>
> ANNEALING WILL SOFTEN YOUR METAL AND YOU ONLY WANT TO NORMALIZ to 800 to
> 900F .
>
>
> I have been welding gas tig and mig for over 30 years ...........
>
>
> Good luck,
> Dave
>
> Annealing increases ductility and removes stresses from formed or part
> formed material, producing a large-grained structure, making the metal
> less
>
> tough and easier to machine or cold-form. The process involves heating to
> a
>
> suitable temperature, soaking at that temperature to create a stable
> structure, then allowing the metal to cool very slowly.
>
> The heat treatment condition is often identified by the letter 'A'
> [annealed] or 'N' [normalised] after the alloy designation [4130 N] or a
> code like '4130 QT900F' which indicates that the alloy has been quenched
> and
> then tempered at 900 F. Scratchbuilders use 4130 in the normalised
> condition.
>
> If it is necessary to recover full normalised strength in the joint areas
> affected by welding members into an airframe, 4130 N tube structures have
> to
> be re-normalised. This is done by re-heating those heat affected zones,
> with
> an oxy-acetylene torch for example, to a temperature around 800/850 C and
> then allowing the metal to cool slowly. The process must be carried out in
> still air at normal temperature and some jigging may be required to
> prevent
>
> distortion in the frame. Re-normalising will also relieve the heat
> expansion/contraction stresses induced in the tubing near the weld. Pure
> stress relieving, without re-normalising, occurs at temperatures around
> 650/700 C.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: looking for tailwheel spring
>
>
>>
>> Thanks for the info, I am inner splicing the 1/2" with 7/16" .049 tube
> and
>> outer splicing the 3/8" cross members with 7/16" .028 tube. Leaving 1/8"
>> gap between the 30 degree cuts in the 1/2 tubes to weld and also 1/4"
>> rosettes on each side of the splices. The inner splices are 4" long. what
>> do you think any suggestions I am definitely open to all ideas before I
>> weld. Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | aft CG service letter |
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
I read in some of the service letters/bulletins that the model 4 KF aft CG
limit had been expanded to 16" from 14.78" [I think]. From what I have read
aft CG was 28% of mean aerodynamic chord[ 51" on kitfox 2]. I guess what I
am asking does anyone know whether this applies to kitfox 1,2,3 etc? I
think mac is the wing measurement leading to trailing edge? Does the
Kitfox 4 have a different wing measurement than a kf2. Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
Eric, I was just looking at a temperature chart from my book "How to weld
damn near anything", and the annealing temperature for steel is 1700f, with
a color of orange. Here are the rest of the colors:
1000f - Faint red - Nitriding
1100f - Blood Red - Stress Relieving
1300- 1500f - Cherry Red - Atomic Changes
1600f - Salmon - Normalizing
1700f - Orange - Annealing
2000f - Bright Yellow Magnetism lost
2100-2500f - White - Forging
2600-2900f - Steel Melts
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
Great info but how do you tell at what temperature the material is at when
you are heating it with a torch?
Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
>
>
> ----- Forwarded by Mark Summers/LWB/WRE/Lhoist on 02/12/2006 09:01
> AM -----
>
> > To:
>
> cc:
> 02/10/2006 06:40 Subject: WELDING 4130
> PM
>
>
> I received this from another reader that has been giving some experienced
> advice just wanted to get another opinion and idea on the posting about
> welding.
> Mark ,
>
> We spoke about welding.............
>
>
> ANNEALING WILL SOFTEN YOUR METAL AND YOU ONLY WANT TO NORMALIZ to 800 to
> 900F .
>
>
> I have been welding gas tig and mig for over 30 years ...........
>
>
> Good luck,
> Dave
>
> Annealing increases ductility and removes stresses from formed or part
> formed material, producing a large-grained structure, making the metal
> less
>
> tough and easier to machine or cold-form. The process involves heating to
> a
>
> suitable temperature, soaking at that temperature to create a stable
> structure, then allowing the metal to cool very slowly.
>
> The heat treatment condition is often identified by the letter 'A'
> [annealed] or 'N' [normalised] after the alloy designation [4130 N] or a
> code like '4130 QT900F' which indicates that the alloy has been quenched
> and
> then tempered at 900 F. Scratchbuilders use 4130 in the normalised
> condition.
>
> If it is necessary to recover full normalised strength in the joint areas
> affected by welding members into an airframe, 4130 N tube structures have
> to
> be re-normalised. This is done by re-heating those heat affected zones,
> with
> an oxy-acetylene torch for example, to a temperature around 800/850 C and
> then allowing the metal to cool slowly. The process must be carried out in
> still air at normal temperature and some jigging may be required to
> prevent
>
> distortion in the frame. Re-normalising will also relieve the heat
> expansion/contraction stresses induced in the tubing near the weld. Pure
> stress relieving, without re-normalising, occurs at temperatures around
> 650/700 C.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: looking for tailwheel spring
>
>
>>
>> Thanks for the info, I am inner splicing the 1/2" with 7/16" .049 tube
> and
>> outer splicing the 3/8" cross members with 7/16" .028 tube. Leaving 1/8"
>> gap between the 30 degree cuts in the 1/2 tubes to weld and also 1/4"
>> rosettes on each side of the splices. The inner splices are 4" long. what
>> do you think any suggestions I am definitely open to all ideas before I
>> weld. Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aft CG service letter |
Cc: jdmcbean
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
This probably won't answer your question, Mark, but let me drop a
couple of numbers that I have come across in building my IV. The
original manual states that the MAC is 51.5" and the later manual,
revised in '03, shows the MAC at 51.1" This could be due to the change
of flaperon hinge brackets, between when my IV was built in '94, and
when the revised manual was done in '03. Does anybody know for
sure...John McBean, are you listening? And of course the MAC is
apparently measured from the leading edge to the trailing edge of the
flaperon, at least it seems that way according to what I can figure out
right now (with my wings folded).
Lynn
On Sunday, February 12, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
wrote:
>
> I read in some of the service letters/bulletins that the model 4 KF
> aft CG
> limit had been expanded to 16" from 14.78" [I think]. From what I have
> read
> aft CG was 28% of mean aerodynamic chord[ 51" on kitfox 2]. I guess
> what I
> am asking does anyone know whether this applies to kitfox 1,2,3 etc? I
> think mac is the wing measurement leading to trailing edge? Does the
> Kitfox 4 have a different wing measurement than a kf2. Thanks Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac(at)swbell.net> |
Rich, I believe the instructions say 140 in lbs. on the Hub Flange. However
I used AN5 bolts.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rich Williamson
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Torque ?s
Group,
Installing spinner on the KF... Have a 3blade wooden GSC prop - I can find
the best torque specs for the prop 75-100in lbs - but having a hard time
pinning down the Hub Flange torque specs??? Anyone know?
Also, would regular AN4 bolts with Head drilled provide the same strength
and purpose than regular "Prop Bolts" ? Believe they are all Grade 8
regardless.. so if right size, does it matter ??
thanks
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flier" <FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net> |
A mark from a 900F Tempilstik about 1" away from the
area being normalized will turn to liquid when the
zone is at 900F or simply stroke the zone and see if
it's at temperature.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
>
>Eric, I was just looking at a temperature chart from
my book "How to weld
>damn near anything", and the annealing temperature
for steel is 1700f, with
>a color of orange. Here are the rest of the colors:
>
>1000f - Faint red - Nitriding
>1100f - Blood Red - Stress Relieving
>1300- 1500f - Cherry Red - Atomic Changes
>1600f - Salmon - Normalizing
>1700f - Orange - Annealing
>2000f - Bright Yellow Magnetism lost
>2100-2500f - White - Forging
>2600-2900f - Steel Melts
>
>Don Pearsall
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Eric
>Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 7:41 AM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
>
>
>Great info but how do you tell at what temperature
the material is at when
>you are heating it with a torch?
>Eric
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:02 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: WELDING 4130
>
>
Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Forwarded by Mark Summers/LWB/WRE/Lhoist on
02/12/2006 09:01
>> AM -----
>>
>> > > To:
>>
>> cc:
>> 02/10/2006 06:40
Subject: WELDING 4130
>> PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I received this from another reader that has been
giving some experienced
>> advice just wanted to get another opinion and idea
on the posting about
>> welding.
>> Mark ,
>>
>> We spoke about welding.............
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ANNEALING WILL SOFTEN YOUR METAL AND YOU ONLY WANT
TO NORMALIZ to 800 to
>> 900F .
>>
>>
>> I have been welding gas tig and mig for over 30
years ...........
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Dave
>>
>> Annealing increases ductility and removes stresses
from formed or part
>> formed material, producing a large-grained
structure, making the metal
>> less
>>
>> tough and easier to machine or cold-form. The
process involves heating to
>> a
>>
>> suitable temperature, soaking at that temperature
to create a stable
>> structure, then allowing the metal to cool very
slowly.
>>
>> The heat treatment condition is often identified
by the letter 'A'
>> [annealed] or 'N' [normalised] after the alloy
designation [4130 N] or a
>> code like '4130 QT900F' which indicates that the
alloy has been quenched
>> and
>> then tempered at 900 F. Scratchbuilders use 4130
in the normalised
>> condition.
>>
>> If it is necessary to recover full normalised
strength in the joint areas
>> affected by welding members into an airframe, 4130
N tube structures have
>> to
>> be re-normalised. This is done by re-heating those
heat affected zones,
>> with
>> an oxy-acetylene torch for example, to a
temperature around 800/850 C and
>> then allowing the metal to cool slowly. The
process must be carried out in
>> still air at normal temperature and some jigging
may be required to
>> prevent
>>
>> distortion in the frame. Re-normalising will also
relieve the heat
>> expansion/contraction stresses induced in the
tubing near the weld. Pure
>> stress relieving, without re-normalising, occurs
at temperatures around
>> 650/700 C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: looking for tailwheel spring
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info, I am inner splicing the 1/2"
with 7/16" .049 tube
>> and
>>> outer splicing the 3/8" cross members with
7/16" .028 tube. Leaving 1/8"
>>> gap between the 30 degree cuts in the 1/2 tubes
to weld and also 1/4"
>>> rosettes on each side of the splices. The inner
splices are 4" long. what
>>> do you think any suggestions I am definitely open
to all ideas before I
>>> weld. Thanks
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
Admin.
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
Hi Guys, I know this is a odd request but,I'm looking for a VOR antenna
complete, Or plans on how to make one. I think the wisker type in the shape
of a V would be a good choice. I have added a RT 328D Com/Nav to my new
panel and will need to install a Nav antenna.
If someone could help me locate one or supply plans for building
one I would very greatfull.
Jim,N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aft CG service letter |
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
I have a feeling that the reference mainly to kf 4 aft cg increase is
because the higher max gross 1200lbs on some of the 4's would see a use for
baggage compartment weights increasing the aft cg where the kf 1,2 and 3
didn't have much weight room for baggage anyway. I guess I am trying to
figure out if aft cg less than 16" but more than 14.28" would be dangerous
in a kf2 because after I get through welding on the new tail I may have to
add ballast in the motor mount area to keep my cg under 14.28 and I really
don't want to do that if at all possible. Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WELDING 4130 |
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
I havent really figured that out yet, but I at this point I don't plan on
doing any extensive heating. My biggest concern is avoiding rapid cooling
and getting brittleness from that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com> |
Try EBay
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Burke<mailto:jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
Hi Guys, I know this is a odd request but,I'm looking for a VOR antenna
complete, Or plans on how to make one. I think the wisker type in the shape
of a V would be a good choice. I have added a RT 328D Com/Nav to my new
panel and will need to install a Nav antenna.
If someone could help me locate one or supply plans for building
one I would very greatfull.
Jim,N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
I did fine one on E-Bay,but It required a balun. Unfortunately, it is not
included.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
> Try EBay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Burke<mailto:jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
>
> >
>
> Hi Guys, I know this is a odd request but,I'm looking for a VOR antenna
> complete, Or plans on how to make one. I think the wisker type in the
> shape
> of a V would be a good choice. I have added a RT 328D Com/Nav to my new
> panel and will need to install a Nav antenna.
> If someone could help me locate one or supply plans for
> building
> one I would very greatfull.
>
> Jim,N94JE
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolmbru(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
I haven't flown mine yet got it in sep and put a 582 in it /w E box now cg
and horse power is a concern with the old muffler under the cowl still need
to instal a larger battery maybe under the seat malcolm from michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> |
I have a very nice one removed from my plane. It is a com nav with BNC
male connector, composite construction.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
I did fine one on E-Bay,but It required a balun. Unfortunately, it is
not
included.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
> Try EBay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Burke<mailto:jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
>
> >
>
> Hi Guys, I know this is a odd request but,I'm looking for a VOR
> antenna complete, Or plans on how to make one. I think the wisker
> type in the shape of a V would be a good choice. I have added a RT
> 328D Com/Nav to my new panel and will need to install a Nav antenna.
> If someone could help me locate one or supply plans for
> building
> one I would very greatfull.
>
> Jim,N94JE
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
recieved information on a set of vortes generators for 'Fox wings. At less than $100 with shipping, the price isn't bad. Does any one know anything about Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making the offer? Take a look at www.landshorter.com.
John Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | aft CG service letter |
The Kitfox IV has a different WING then the Model 1, 2 or 3.. although some
3's have used a IV wing.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: aft CG service letter
I read in some of the service letters/bulletins that the model 4 KF aft CG
limit had been expanded to 16" from 14.78" [I think]. From what I have read
aft CG was 28% of mean aerodynamic chord[ 51" on kitfox 2]. I guess what I
am asking does anyone know whether this applies to kitfox 1,2,3 etc? I
think mac is the wing measurement leading to trailing edge? Does the
Kitfox 4 have a different wing measurement than a kf2. Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators |
Hi John,
I think VG's are a winner and that is a good price.
Only way you can beat that is to make your own. But
these come with a guarantee!
I bought a different brand and tested them on my Fox
during my 40 hrs of testing. I tried 5 or 6 different
patterns and did some 50 or so stalls. I did get a
significant improvement in handling and safety as far
as I am concerned. I could still completely control
the plane with full aft stick and bobbing in and out
of stalls. I could even shove in considerable rudder
and not spin out.
Unfortunately I couldn't achieve any siginificant
reduction in stall speeds and need to continue testing
in the future. As I remember, reporting my testing on
the list resulted in Landshorter jumping in to help.
I consider that great customer concern and would
support buying from them for that reason too. They
supported me even though I had a different brand.
I will certainly be going back to testing VG's
whenever I get more time. Even without a reduction is
stall speed, I like the slow flying qualities. This
makes me feel much more confident about low speed
landings and that alone would improve safety and short
field work.
Anticipating your question, my cruise speed was
similar with VG's and without. Some patterns slowed
me down a few mph and some didn't make a change in
cruise performance.
The major shortcoming of VG's to me is cleaning your
plane. Ha ha. Ya gotta work around those things.
Otherwise they are all a plus.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:
> recieved information on a set of vortes generators
> for 'Fox wings. At less than $100 with shipping, the
> price isn't bad. Does any one know anything about
> Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making
> the offer? Take a look at www.landshorter.com.
>
> John Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge Pin Staking |
Sorry for the delay guys.. Been out for a few days...
I have done this a couple of ways: Shorter pin and crimped the hinge end ,
Shorter pin and drilled the hinge to be safetied, Longer pin with a bend...
They all worked but I liked the drilled hinge the best so far.... Tried the
same on the door hinge and installed a stainless wire with 2 bent 90's to
keep in place.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vic Baker
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hinge Pin Staking
Just don't do what my neighbor advised me to do and try to stake them with a
punch. I made a mess of mine. Ed Downs of Skystar advised just making a 90
degree bend at each hinge pin end. Maybe John McBean will give us an input
here.
--------
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11333#11333
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dcaofak" <dcaofak(at)acsalaska.net> |
Prop bolts have a longer threaded portion than standard AN bolts. When selecting
bolts for your propellor make certain that the bolt is not 'bottoming out'
on the shoulder where the threads end. It is possible to torque a bolt in this
condition to spec, and have little or no compression on the parts being bolted
together.
John Stoner
KF III, 582
Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Disher" <jdisher(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators |
Listening to you guys kicking around stall speeds and slow landing speeds
reminds me of my little escapade with seeing just how slow I could nring it
in on final. I'm down to bringing it over the fence at about 40 when it
stalls about 2 feet off the ground. It didn't drop the nose, flutter or
anything, the bottom just dropped out and I think Charleston Southern Univ.
measured it on their Richter Scale. Back to conservative approaches.
-------Original Message-------
From: kurt schrader
Date: 02/13/06 12:35:06
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
com>
Hi John,
I think VG's are a winner and that is a good price.
Only way you can beat that is to make your own. But
these come with a guarantee!
I bought a different brand and tested them on my Fox
during my 40 hrs of testing. I tried 5 or 6 different
patterns and did some 50 or so stalls. I did get a
significant improvement in handling and safety as far
as I am concerned. I could still completely control
the plane with full aft stick and bobbing in and out
of stalls. I could even shove in considerable rudder
and not spin out.
Unfortunately I couldn't achieve any siginificant
reduction in stall speeds and need to continue testing
in the future. As I remember, reporting my testing on
the list resulted in Landshorter jumping in to help.
I consider that great customer concern and would
support buying from them for that reason too. They
supported me even though I had a different brand.
I will certainly be going back to testing VG's
whenever I get more time. Even without a reduction is
stall speed, I like the slow flying qualities. This
makes me feel much more confident about low speed
landings and that alone would improve safety and short
field work.
Anticipating your question, my cruise speed was
similar with VG's and without. Some patterns slowed
me down a few mph and some didn't make a change in
cruise performance.
The major shortcoming of VG's to me is cleaning your
plane. Ha ha. Ya gotta work around those things.
Otherwise they are all a plus.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:
> recieved information on a set of vortes generators
> for 'Fox wings. At less than $100 with shipping, the
> price isn't bad. Does any one know anything about
> Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making
> the offer? Take a look at www.landshorter.com.
>
> John Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> |
What is the conventional wisdom on preheating. I have K-lll w/ a Rotax 582.
With my Cherokee I have always preheated when the ambient temp. was 40
degrees F. or below. What is recommended for these little engines. I don't
think that it is matter of whether it will start but what is good for it.
Frank - Lewston, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
John,
Thanks for this web address.
For all, Check out the "fun" on Landshorter's website. Some great pictures
of some neat places and planes.
Randy - VG's at some point in the future.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
recieved information on a set of vortes generators for 'Fox wings. At less
than $100 with shipping, the price isn't bad. Does any one know anything
about Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making the offer? Take a
look at www.landshorter.com.
John Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
It is always better on an engine to pre-heat. There are a lot of
advantages... one is: the oil will circulate easier and get to the critical
areas better then when it cold and thick.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Miles
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Preheating
What is the conventional wisdom on preheating. I have K-lll w/ a Rotax 582.
With my Cherokee I have always preheated when the ambient temp. was 40
degrees F. or below. What is recommended for these little engines. I don't
think that it is matter of whether it will start but what is good for it.
Frank - Lewston, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
What is the best (most effective) way to pre-heat?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11896#11896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators |
He is one of the engineers working on the new Quest aircraft out of
northern Idaho. I have a set, but have not installed them yet. They look
really good, and he said if I don't like them he will take them back. He
came highly recommended to me from a mutual friend. Professional
aeronautical engineer and an honest man.
kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>recieved information on a set of vortes generators for 'Fox wings. At less than $100 with shipping, the price isn't bad. Does any one know anything about Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making the offer? Take a look at www.landshorter.com.
>
>John Kerr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
I use a small 110V auto interior heater purchased from Canadian Tire store
(about $25.00).
I put it in the front of the cowl and even at -20 deg C by the time I have
removed the covers from my plane it has put enough heat into the engine to
allow it spin easily and it starts every time.
I'm not sure if my posts are getting to the list and would appreciate it if
someone could confirm.
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Preheating
What is the best (most effective) way to pre-heat?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11896#11896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> |
Gary, Appreciate your remarks. What I really wanted to know was at what
point do you decide to preheat and what engine do you have. The point has
been made that preheating is always good but there is a point of diminishing
return. The 582's do not have an oil reservoir like a normal four cycle, air
cooled, aircraft engine. I am sure that the point to preheat is an arbitrary
decision. What is yours?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Algate
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Preheating
I use a small 110V auto interior heater purchased from Canadian Tire store
(about $25.00).
I put it in the front of the cowl and even at -20 deg C by the time I have
removed the covers from my plane it has put enough heat into the engine to
allow it spin easily and it starts every time.
I'm not sure if my posts are getting to the list and would appreciate it if
someone could confirm.
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Preheating
What is the best (most effective) way to pre-heat?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11896#11896
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge Pin Staking |
I use hitch pins in the hinges on the doors. That way I can remove them
in a minute or so.
jdmcbean wrote:
>I have done this a couple of ways: Shorter pin and crimped the hinge end ,
>Shorter pin and drilled the hinge to be safetied, Longer pin with a bend...
>They all worked but I liked the drilled hinge the best so far.... Tried the
>same on the door hinge and installed a stainless wire with 2 bent 90's to
>keep in place.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
John,
Joa is a good guy have talked with him several times... Although more
expensive, we have chose to offer the aluminum VG's.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
recieved information on a set of vortes generators for 'Fox wings. At less
than $100 with shipping, the price isn't bad. Does any one know anything
about Joa Harrison of Harrison Designs LLC that is making the offer? Take a
look at www.landshorter.com.
John Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net> |
Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I just used
a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not bottom out... They
are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in the in the 120in lbs range...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net> |
Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in Maine..
When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self preheat...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Rich,
I suspect you might hear of this from others also, but here goes. Aircraft
bolts have rolled rather than cut threads to reduce the tendency for
thread cutting leaving burs that could result in stress risers and ultimate
stress fracture. I think good advice would be to get the proper prop bolts
and fly with a bit less stress on you.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torque ?s
>
> Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I
> just used a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not bottom
> out... They are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in the in
> the 120in lbs range...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | cutting prop bolt threads |
Rich, there's a problem with what you're doing. AN bolts have "rolled"
threads which means they aren't cut, but rolled in with a machine. The
reason for this is to eliminate stress cracks in the threads. By using a
cutting die on your bolts you're changing the properties of them and what
you end up with is a bolt that does not have the tensile strenght or
predictability of a prop bolt. It's possible that you will never have a
problem, but as important as prop bolts are, I don't think it's wise to take
that risk.
If I'm off base on this someone please let me know.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torque ?s
>
> Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I
just used a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not bottom
out... They are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in the in
the 120in lbs range...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DPREMGOOD(at)AOL.COM |
Loud and clear Gary,
Our local flying club has the same heaters installed in the cowlings of the
airplanes. What's more, they got Transport Canada approval to mount them onto
the airframe.
Doug Remoundos
Montreal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com> |
Usually don't get to pre-heat...never had a problem, but I don't usually fly
the 'Fox too much when it's below 30 anyway.
Funny thing, I was going to take my Crew Partner (Cockpit Resource Mgmt
Training in Multi-Engine Ops at school) flying low and slow...and the damn
battery turned the prop over once and kicked the bucket. NEVER had a problem
with it before...oh well. I hooked up the charger and started 'er up...
Any ideas where I can get a good, inexpensive replacement?
Thanks!
Andrew
KF3 582 68" GSC
>From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:16 -0500
>
>
>Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in
>Maine.. When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self
>preheat...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | cutting prop bolt threads |
I absolutely agree with Deke. When you die cut the AN bolts to extend the
threads, the resulting threads are sharp and much thinner in cross section
than the rolled threads. The FAA AC's even advise against this. You could
not do this on a certified plane. If you look at them under a strong
magnifying glass, you can even see the stress cracks (that's because I have
done the same thing.) The threads will give way long before the rolled
threads will.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: cutting prop bolt threads
Rich, there's a problem with what you're doing. AN bolts have "rolled"
threads which means they aren't cut, but rolled in with a machine. The
reason for this is to eliminate stress cracks in the threads. By using a
cutting die on your bolts you're changing the properties of them and what
you end up with is a bolt that does not have the tensile strenght or
predictability of a prop bolt. It's possible that you will never have a
problem, but as important as prop bolts are, I don't think it's wise to take
that risk.
If I'm off base on this someone please let me know.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torque ?s
>
> Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I
just used a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not bottom
out... They are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in the in
the 120in lbs range...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cutting prop bolt threads |
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Cutting threads like Rich is suggesting is fine if done for a
non-stressed part on a ground-based vehicle, but for staking your life
on...it's a bad idea. I've done work like Rich proposes on slow-poke
cars, work benches, and house decks, but not on something that takes me
and my loved ones up flying...don't do it!
Lynn
On Monday, February 13, 2006, at 09:11 PM, Don Pearsall wrote:
>
>
> I absolutely agree with Deke. When you die cut the AN bolts to extend
> the
> threads, the resulting threads are sharp and much thinner in cross
> section
> than the rolled threads. The FAA AC's even advise against this. You
> could
> not do this on a certified plane. If you look at them under a strong
> magnifying glass, you can even see the stress cracks (that's because I
> have
> done the same thing.) The threads will give way long before the rolled
> threads will.
>
> Don Pearsall
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:19 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: cutting prop bolt threads
>
>
>
> Rich, there's a problem with what you're doing. AN bolts have "rolled"
> threads which means they aren't cut, but rolled in with a machine. The
> reason for this is to eliminate stress cracks in the threads. By
> using a
> cutting die on your bolts you're changing the properties of them and
> what
> you end up with is a bolt that does not have the tensile strenght or
> predictability of a prop bolt. It's possible that you will never have
> a
> problem, but as important as prop bolts are, I don't think it's wise
> to take
> that risk.
> If I'm off base on this someone please let me know.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torque ?s
>
>
>>
>>
>> Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I
> just used a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not
> bottom
> out... They are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in
> the in
> the 120in lbs range...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> |
Just got a new battery from: Sport Plane, LLC. $71.50 + shipping.
I have heard it said that a starting a cold soaked engine at -20% C. without
preheating is equal to 200 hours of time on an engine. Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Matthaey
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
Usually don't get to pre-heat...never had a problem, but I don't usually fly
the 'Fox too much when it's below 30 anyway.
Funny thing, I was going to take my Crew Partner (Cockpit Resource Mgmt
Training in Multi-Engine Ops at school) flying low and slow...and the damn
battery turned the prop over once and kicked the bucket. NEVER had a problem
with it before...oh well. I hooked up the charger and started 'er up...
Any ideas where I can get a good, inexpensive replacement?
Thanks!
Andrew
KF3 582 68" GSC
>From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:16 -0500
>
>
>Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in
>Maine.. When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self
>preheat...
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
Rick, Thanks so much for your offer. your antenna sounds great,but I prefer
the wire type ver. the composite one. I have acquired the wire type from
Kitfoxer in CO,the same one Skystar supplied with the Kitfox kit that mounts
on the tail feathers. Thanks again for your offer,I will keep you in mind if
I hear of someone needing a composite VOR antenna.
Jim,N94JE
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:25 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
> I have a very nice one removed from my plane. It is a com nav with BNC
> male connector, composite construction.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:33 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
>
> I did fine one on E-Bay,but It required a balun. Unfortunately, it is
> not
> included.
>
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 8:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>
>
>>
>> Try EBay
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jim Burke<mailto:jeburke94je(at)direcway.com>
>> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VOR Antenna
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> Hi Guys, I know this is a odd request but,I'm looking for a VOR
>> antenna complete, Or plans on how to make one. I think the wisker
>> type in the shape of a V would be a good choice. I have added a RT
>> 328D Com/Nav to my new panel and will need to install a Nav antenna.
>> If someone could help me locate one or supply plans for
>> building
>> one I would very greatfull.
>>
>> Jim,N94JE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com> |
200 hrs, ouch...I'll be flying the Cessna's and Arrows when it's that cold!
Thanks for the battery info!
Andrew
>From: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:33:30 -0800
>
>
>
>Just got a new battery from: Sport Plane, LLC. $71.50 + shipping.
>
>I have heard it said that a starting a cold soaked engine at -20% C.
>without
>preheating is equal to 200 hours of time on an engine. Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
>Matthaey
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:59 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>
>
>
>Usually don't get to pre-heat...never had a problem, but I don't usually
>fly
>
>the 'Fox too much when it's below 30 anyway.
>
>Funny thing, I was going to take my Crew Partner (Cockpit Resource Mgmt
>Training in Multi-Engine Ops at school) flying low and slow...and the damn
>battery turned the prop over once and kicked the bucket. NEVER had a
>problem
>
>with it before...oh well. I hooked up the charger and started 'er up...
>
>Any ideas where I can get a good, inexpensive replacement?
>
>Thanks!
>Andrew
>KF3 582 68" GSC
>
>
> >From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
> >Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:16 -0500
> >
>
> >
> >Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in
> >Maine.. When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self
> >preheat...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com> |
200 hrs, ouch...I'll be flying the Cessna's and Arrows when it's that cold!
Thanks for the battery info!
Andrew
>From: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:33:30 -0800
>
>
>
>Just got a new battery from: Sport Plane, LLC. $71.50 + shipping.
>
>I have heard it said that a starting a cold soaked engine at -20% C.
>without
>preheating is equal to 200 hours of time on an engine. Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
>Matthaey
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:59 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>
>
>
>Usually don't get to pre-heat...never had a problem, but I don't usually
>fly
>
>the 'Fox too much when it's below 30 anyway.
>
>Funny thing, I was going to take my Crew Partner (Cockpit Resource Mgmt
>Training in Multi-Engine Ops at school) flying low and slow...and the damn
>battery turned the prop over once and kicked the bucket. NEVER had a
>problem
>
>with it before...oh well. I hooked up the charger and started 'er up...
>
>Any ideas where I can get a good, inexpensive replacement?
>
>Thanks!
>Andrew
>KF3 582 68" GSC
>
>
> >From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
> >Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:16 -0500
> >
>
> >
> >Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in
> >Maine.. When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self
> >preheat...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
I purchased the small cabin heater from Skystar and although it takes a bit
of the chill off your toes it does almost nothing to heat the cabin at -20
degC OAT. Dave Fisher (another Kitfox pilot) told me about his setup and it
works great.
I used a small Tupperware container (about 6" x 3") and drilled cut 2 x
1-1/2" holes in the bottom and then used two x plastic ties to strap it the
rear of my engine rad. From the two holes I ran two lengths of plastic shed
Vac hose up through the bungee openings into the cabin.
The heated air pumps out under your knees and brings the air temp up in the
cab about 20 degC. For even more heat he suggested a simple muffler heater
which ducts air into the cab at your feet and last weekend at -12 deg OAT it
registered + 15 in the Cabin.
GaryA
Lite2/582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Putting something behind the radiator will disrupt the airflow and reduce its effectiveness.
Might not be a big deal in the winter but if you forget to take
remove it during the summer, you could over heat your motor. A shroud sounds safer
(isn't that what GA airplanes with air cooled motors use?) but I'd want a
carbon monoxide detector in the cabin in case the mufler springs a leak.
How about one of those electric jump suits that mountain climbers wear? Don't have
to mod your airplane and it will still keep you warm when you step out of
the cabin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12115#12115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Anyone use one of these?:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/heaters/enginepreheater.htm
Seems like a simple and inexpensive setup that takes advantage of the fact that
the motor is liquid cooled.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12116#12116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Martin" <CrownLJ(at)verizon.net> |
I installed a Ski Doo rad hose heater (any rad hose heater will do) to my 582 and
use it anytime the temp is below +40ish. I find that it starts and idles with
little priming and the water temp is already around 100F on start. I feel
justified in flying the airplane by the time I taxi out, which is around 5 min,
figuring everything is nice and warm. It only takes a short time (1 hr).
When its cold out, I'll plug it into a timer the night before, so it will be nice
and warm in the morning, without using too much hydro.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Algate" <algate(at)attglobal.net> |
Winter flying in Canada requires masking off the front of the Rad to reduce
cooling so this actually helps the situation. You wouldn't fly far in summer
with heater going as you would be uncomfortable to notice it.
GaryA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
Putting something behind the radiator will disrupt the airflow and reduce
its effectiveness. Might not be a big deal in the winter but if you forget
to take remove it during the summer, you could over heat your motor. A
shroud sounds safer (isn't that what GA airplanes with air cooled motors
use?) but I'd want a carbon monoxide detector in the cabin in case the
mufler springs a leak.
How about one of those electric jump suits that mountain climbers wear?
Don't have to mod your airplane and it will still keep you warm when you
step out of the cabin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12115#12115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
List
One quick question.
Who is Wingnut? Or are we not supposed to know, or are we just supposed to
not care?
I guess that was three questions, sorry.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
>
> Putting something behind the radiator will disrupt the airflow and reduce
> its effectiveness. Might not be a big deal in the winter but if you forget
> to take remove it during the summer, you could over heat your motor. A
> shroud sounds safer (isn't that what GA airplanes with air cooled motors
> use?) but I'd want a carbon monoxide detector in the cabin in case the
> mufler springs a leak.
>
> How about one of those electric jump suits that mountain climbers wear?
> Don't have to mod your airplane and it will still keep you warm when you
> step out of the cabin.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12115#12115
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
I am wingnut. wingnut am I.
I'm a guy who recently purchased a kitfox and joined the kitfox list. I fly N824KF
out of 34A (Laurens, SC). Other than that, there's nothing worth noting about
me. What is it that you want to know?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12156#12156
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> |
200 hours.
I think I avoid most of that by cranking until the oil pressure is up before
I turn on the mags. Then everything is pre-oiled before high RPM's.
My old Jeep has nearly 4000 hours on it and it doesn't burn any oil. And it
always is started with no oil pressure. And many of those starts are at
below - 4 F. Still, I suspect that there is some truth to the 200 hours run
of thumb.
Randy - 912S
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Miles
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Preheating
Just got a new battery from: Sport Plane, LLC. $71.50 + shipping.
I have heard it said that a starting a cold soaked engine at -20% C. without
preheating is equal to 200 hours of time on an engine. Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Matthaey
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
Usually don't get to pre-heat...never had a problem, but I don't usually fly
the 'Fox too much when it's below 30 anyway.
Funny thing, I was going to take my Crew Partner (Cockpit Resource Mgmt
Training in Multi-Engine Ops at school) flying low and slow...and the damn
battery turned the prop over once and kicked the bucket. NEVER had a problem
with it before...oh well. I hooked up the charger and started 'er up...
Any ideas where I can get a good, inexpensive replacement?
Thanks!
Andrew
KF3 582 68" GSC
>From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Preheating
>Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:48:16 -0500
>
>
>Pre heat below 40 F....!!!! We'd be preheating 6 months of the year in
>Maine.. When the temp gets -10 F , we just stay by the fire and self
>preheat...
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
There is a huge difference in air cooled and water cooled engines in how
a cold start affects them. The big no no is to cold start an air cooled
conventional aircraft engine as at cold temps the dissimilar metals
expand and contract at different rates and that reduces clearances to
less than acceptable. This is what causes the excessive wear. On most
car engines if you can crank it over enough to start and the oil will
flow you are all right. Multi weight oils have dramatically reduced cold
start oil starvation. It all comes down to what clearances the engine
was built with, what materials it was built with, and at what temp those
materials no longer have acceptable clearances. I would not start my
O-320 or O-360 below 20 F without preheat, and I would preheat below 30F
if I could, but I have never preheated my snowmobile - ever- and I have
started it at -20F and never had any sighs of problems. I guess you
would have to find out from the manufacture what the critical temps are
and go with that.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Burke <jeburke94je(at)direcway.com> |
Thanks, To all that have resopnded to my needs for a VOR antenna and or
plans. And thanks to jeff for the VOR plans I'm sure someone will build a
inexpensive antenna. I have acquired the wire type VOR antenna from a Kitfox
owner in CO that should work just fine for me. Again thanks for the help, As
always I'll be back needing more help,and knowing someone will help dig me
out when needed with this new project.
Jim,N94JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sid Hausding <avidsid(at)yahoo.com> |
The standard factory cabin heat box supplied with the Avid comes with a shroud
to mount behind one of the 582 cheek radiators and scat hosing to connect to the
heater box mounted on the firewall. As the heater is opened up more, it dumps
less and less out to the airflow through the cowling....less heat needed,
more radiator heated air is dumped out the box and back into the cowling cooling
flow..............simple, effective, and cheap, and no combustion fumes to
worry about. Either setting, or something inbetween, allows full flow through
the radiator for proper cooling.........
Sid
----------------
wingnut wrote:
Putting something behind the radiator will disrupt the airflow and reduce its effectiveness.
Might not be a big deal in the winter but if you forget to take
remove it during the summer, you could over heat your motor. A shroud sounds safer
(isn't that what GA airplanes with air cooled motors use?) but I'd want a
carbon monoxide detector in the cabin in case the mufler springs a leak.
How about one of those electric jump suits that mountain climbers wear? Don't have
to mod your airplane and it will still keep you warm when you step out of
the cabin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12115#12115
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Olson <ofd725(at)yahoo.com> |
Gentlemen,
I am making the final assembly of my tailfeathers for my S7 and I find that I
am short a bushing for the horzontal. Does anyone know where I could find another?
Is this the kind of bushing that may be used on a production aircraft so
that I may find one at my local FBO? Worst case scenario is that I would have
to make one from scratch. Thanks.
Gary
P.S. Hey Lowell, the only Wingnut I know has that handle because he has big ears.
He also is known as "Radar" .
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Business Address <rdarchangel(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting prop bolt threads |
Deke,
I agree with you. Refer to Carroll Smith's book "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners
and Plumbing Handbook"published by Motorbooks International. This a a
great reference to theory and practice of high strength fasteners It's
written for the motor sport audience but applies to equally to aviation
applications.
Dick
Fox5flyer wrote:
>
>Rich, there's a problem with what you're doing. AN bolts have "rolled"
>threads which means they aren't cut, but rolled in with a machine. The
>reason for this is to eliminate stress cracks in the threads. By using a
>cutting die on your bolts you're changing the properties of them and what
>you end up with is a bolt that does not have the tensile strenght or
>predictability of a prop bolt. It's possible that you will never have a
>problem, but as important as prop bolts are, I don't think it's wise to take
>that risk.
>If I'm off base on this someone please let me know.
>Deke
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rich Williamson" <rwill1(at)adelphia.net>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Torque ?s
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Thank you, I did find this out and because of the "non prop" bolts.. I
>>
>>
>just used a die nf 1/4-28 and lengthened the tread so it would not bottom
>out... They are AN4 bolts so I am thinking the torque specs must in the in
>the 120in lbs range...
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
> Most people sign their posts with their name. For some reason I like to know
who is posting. Call me old fashioned but I like to know all the names of my friends.
If your name really is Wingnut, then I apologize for asking
OK. You're old fashoned :-). The reason that Ken's name is still in the FAA database
is that I've only recently purchased the airplane from him (Great guy BTW:
He delivered my airplane accross the country for nothing but a return ticket
home). Wingnut is just a login name. Everyone I see here uses an alias for
that. If knowing my name makes you feel better then here you go.
Luis Rodriguez
Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the internet since
before there was a world wide web and no one has ever asked me for my name before
or suggested I was a friend because we posted on the same forum. To be honest,
I'm kind of surprised and finding it hard to not be defensive... But, for
the sake of friendship, I'm going to take your reasons at face value and throw
in my address to boot:
244 Boyd Rd.
Laurens, SC 29360
Oh, and my birth day is in two days. Can I expect a card ? :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12212#12212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj(at)numail.org> |
Hey Lowell, you better send that card priority mail if you expect Luis to
get it on his birthday. :-)
Too funny...
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
>
>
>> Most people sign their posts with their name. For some reason I like to
>> know who is posting. Call me old fashioned but I like to know all the
>> names of my friends. If your name really is Wingnut, then I apologize for
>> asking
>
>
> OK. You're old fashoned :-). The reason that Ken's name is still in the
> FAA database is that I've only recently purchased the airplane from him
> (Great guy BTW: He delivered my airplane accross the country for nothing
> but a return ticket home). Wingnut is just a login name. Everyone I see
> here uses an alias for that. If knowing my name makes you feel better then
> here you go.
>
> Luis Rodriguez
>
> Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the internet
> since before there was a world wide web and no one has ever asked me for
> my name before or suggested I was a friend because we posted on the same
> forum. To be honest, I'm kind of surprised and finding it hard to not be
> defensive... But, for the sake of friendship, I'm going to take your
> reasons at face value and throw in my address to boot:
>
> 244 Boyd Rd.
> Laurens, SC 29360
>
> Oh, and my birth day is in two days. Can I expect a card ? :-)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12212#12212
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Your Name" <dwayne(at)flywv.com> |
| Subject: | Model IV Wing Extensions |
I would like to find a source for the wing extensions for my Model IV
Speedster. Also I would like to know if anyone has POH information
specific to the Speedster with a 912UL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Ethanol in WA State |
Heads up.. this was just posted on another site
A legislator in WA state is trying to get a 2% ethanol in gasoline
requirement passed in the current legislative session.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com <http://www.sportplanellc.com/>
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolmbru(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in WA State |
jim please send your ph# I have questions on my 582 install malcolm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in WA State |
We have 10% ethanol in all our auto fuel and octane ratings in the Chicago area
for the last five years! So far no ill effects in my fuel tanks nor my engine!
Herbert Gottelt M4-1200,UL.
Mt. Prospect, IL
jdmcbean wrote:
Heads up.. this was just posted on another site
A legislator in WA state is trying to get a 2% ethanol in gasoline
requirement passed in the current legislative session.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in WA State |
We have 10% ethanol in all our auto fuel and octane ratings in the Chicago area
for the last five years! So far no ill effects in my fuel tanks nor my engine!
Herbert Gottelt M4-1200,UL.
Mt. Prospect, IL
jdmcbean wrote:
Heads up.. this was just posted on another site
A legislator in WA state is trying to get a 2% ethanol in gasoline
requirement passed in the current legislative session.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John King <kingjohne(at)adelphia.net> |
Nice to know you Luis Rodriguez of 244 Boyd Rd., Laurens, SC 29360
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Luis Rodriguez
Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the internet since
before there was a world wide web and no one has ever asked me for my name before
or suggested I was a friend because we posted on the same forum. To be honest,
I'm kind of surprised and finding it hard to not be defensive... But, for
the sake of friendship, I'm going to take your reasons at face value and throw
in my address to boot:
244 Boyd Rd.
Laurens, SC 29360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Thanks Louis,
I think you will find that we here in the KF list are a friendly bunch and
we often respond with a Hi, (insert name) in the old fashioned way.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
>
>
>> Most people sign their posts with their name. For some reason I like to
>> know who is posting. Call me old fashioned but I like to know all the
>> names of my friends. If your name really is Wingnut, then I apologize for
>> asking
>
>
> OK. You're old fashoned :-). The reason that Ken's name is still in the
> FAA database is that I've only recently purchased the airplane from him
> (Great guy BTW: He delivered my airplane accross the country for nothing
> but a return ticket home). Wingnut is just a login name. Everyone I see
> here uses an alias for that. If knowing my name makes you feel better then
> here you go.
>
> Luis Rodriguez
>
> Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the internet
> since before there was a world wide web and no one has ever asked me for
> my name before or suggested I was a friend because we posted on the same
> forum. To be honest, I'm kind of surprised and finding it hard to not be
> defensive... But, for the sake of friendship, I'm going to take your
> reasons at face value and throw in my address to boot:
>
> 244 Boyd Rd.
> Laurens, SC 29360
>
> Oh, and my birth day is in two days. Can I expect a card ? :-)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12212#12212
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Welcome - was Cabin Heat |
Welcome Luis,
The list can be a great resource.... most of us know each other,
have flown together or look forward to flying together. You ever decide to
head out to the Northwest let us know.. The Fox is really at home up here.
PS.. Happy early Birthday !! and the card is in the email....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
> Most people sign their posts with their name. For some reason I like to
know who is posting. Call me old fashioned but I like to know all the names
of my friends. If your name really is Wingnut, then I apologize for asking
OK. You're old fashoned :-). The reason that Ken's name is still in the FAA
database is that I've only recently purchased the airplane from him (Great
guy BTW: He delivered my airplane accross the country for nothing but a
return ticket home). Wingnut is just a login name. Everyone I see here uses
an alias for that. If knowing my name makes you feel better then here you
go.
Luis Rodriguez
Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the internet
since before there was a world wide web and no one has ever asked me for my
name before or suggested I was a friend because we posted on the same forum.
To be honest, I'm kind of surprised and finding it hard to not be
defensive... But, for the sake of friendship, I'm going to take your reasons
at face value and throw in my address to boot:
244 Boyd Rd.
Laurens, SC 29360
Oh, and my birth day is in two days. Can I expect a card ? :-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12212#12212
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm in NC , glad to see someone close. I operate out of TDF in Roxboro, KItfox
IV
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heat
I am wingnut. wingnut am I.
I'm a guy who recently purchased a kitfox and joined the kitfox list. I fly
N824KF out of 34A (Laurens, SC). Other than that, there's nothing worth noting
about me. What is it that you want to know?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12156#12156
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Welcome - was Cabin Heat |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Thanks for the card. I'm still a student pilot but I hope to do some long distance
flying in my Kitfox in the not too distant future. Places freindly to Kitfoxes
will be high on my list of destinations :-)
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12325#12325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Thanks!. Never had such a warm welcome to any on-line community (and I've been
a part of many). This is really a unique forum.
I was recently a neighbor of yours John. We moved here from Lovettsville, VA in
Sept. I expect to be visiting your neck of the woods frequently as my work is
still currently based in Northern VA. I'm hope to do the trip in my Kitfox when
weather and the situation permits.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12333#12333
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
Wingnut sez:
>Didn't meen to ruffle any feathers but I've been a citizen of the
>internet since before there was a world wide web and no one has ever
>asked me for my name before or suggested I was a friend because we
>posted on the same forum.
This is no ordinary internet forum, Wingnut. These are real people
being real in the real world, none of this anonymous cyber-reality
practiced elsewhere. Due to the nature and capabilities of our
shared interest, many of them have met and know each other
personally. They are not friends by virtual of posting to a forum,
they really are friends! At a Kitfox (or Avid) fly-in, nobody says,
"Hi, my name is quadmax." Many do not have 'net alter-egos and a few
probably don't even know what that means.
That said, it's a friendly and accepting group and you are most
welcome. Lowell may or may not send you a birthday card but either
way don't start feeling defensive. Before giving or receiving
safety-critical information, isn't it important to know something
about the source of that data?
I've met Lowell personally and I think you'd like him. :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dcaofak" <dcaofak(at)acsalaska.net> |
Welcome to the list wingnut.
You must be why I had to use Wingnut when I selected a logon name back in the early
nineties.
John Stoner
KF3, 582
Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Don't really follow but thanks.
Flying in Alaska eh? BRRR.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12378#12378
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Welcome - was Cabin Heat |
If you ever head down to Georgia, stop in at PXE and say hi.
Bradley
KF2 N1836
Middle GA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Welcome - was Cabin Heat
Thanks for the card. I'm still a student pilot but I hope to do some long
distance flying in my Kitfox in the not too distant future. Places freindly
to Kitfoxes will be high on my list of destinations :-)
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12325#12325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W Duke <n981ms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Recommended mods to my series 6 before covering? |
With an IO240 my battery had to go in the tail. I fashioned a hinged door to add
better access to the battery. Also gives better access to the trim motor.
Maxwell
scooby harrington wrote:
I'm almost ready to cover now and I wanted to make sure that
I've added all the mods that people have recommended over
the years, here are the mods I have done:
1) reinforced horiz stab trim motor housing
2) added digital readout for trim position to replace
coil spring/pull cable indicator
3) reinforced wing trailing edge with 3/8" tubing
4) reinforced both seats with strap slings to keep seats
from contacting control tubes on hard landings
5) replace leakage prone hard plastic gas sighting tubes
I did the flapperon rigging and elevator rigging figuring it
would be much easier to do this before things got covered up,
I also installed the cargo floor for the same reason. I havent
done any of the firewall forward installation or instrument panel
work but it doesnt look like that will be any more difficult
after the bird is covered, is that accurate?
Anything that you wish you did before covering?
Thanks for your help!!!!
Scooby Harrington
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Welcome - was Cabin Heat |
Yes, welcome to the list Wingnu.... ah Luis. :-)
I hope you are putting in long range tanks. KitFox
friendly places range far beyond the lower 48, like
from South Africa to Norway, from Australia to ah, the
Carolinas! Mexico to Canada....
And when we can get John to lead us, to Alaska and the
exotic Atlantic islands. Haven't got the South
American tour set up yet, but we've got an experienced
prior S. American bush pilot on the list to assist
with that.
We have people here with talents that range just as
far too. A&P mechanics, engineers, Rotax rebuilders,
prior SkyStar employees, electronics experts,
plumbers, doctors, big ship sailing instructors,
Boeing drivers, U-2 pilots, survival experts..... And
we are all friends. Well, except for Lowell, but we
are trying to break him in. ;-)
And you should see some of the planes they have built!
Your Fox can take you to the "real people" you have
been told about and will meet on this list. Grab the
chance when you can. If you can't, please visit with
us here as often as possible. You see, this is not
your usual Blog.... :-)
Kurt S.
--- wingnut wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the card. I'm still a student pilot but I
> hope to do some long distance flying in my Kitfox in
> the not too distant future. Places freindly to
> Kitfoxes will be high on my list of destinations :-)
>
> -Luis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
We have 10% ethanol in all our auto fuel and octane ratings in the Chicago area
for the last five years! So far no ill effects in my fuel tanks nor my engine!
Herbert Gottelt M4-1200,UL.
Mt. Prospect, IL
Hi ! Herbert,
In a previous life I raced Karts. All two strokes In one particular
class we all ran methanol for fuel and for quite sometime all but one of
us at our club kept having bearing problems mainly the big end. We then observed
that the one that didn't have any where near as much trouble was running
petrol and mineral based oil through his motor at the end of the days racing.
He would just wind in the primary and secondary jets to accomodate the petrol
mixture and run the motor for a few minutes.
With a bit of thought we worked out that the Methanol and the synthetic oil both
absorb moisture and if left in the motor the needle bearings were getting tiny
spots of rust in a short time and so failed very prematurely.
Now i can understand your 4 stroke motor surviving on Ethanol but I wonder if
anyone can comment on what 2 or 10% Ethanol is doing to two strokes. I have a
582 and frankly at this point in time I would not use it. Fortunately I am in
Australia and we are just beginning to see this Ethanol in our fuel especially
in South Australia where i am anyway. Of course Ethanol has caused many problems
in 4 strokes with some car manufacturers not allowing it under their warranty.
However to my knowledge the problems have been due to things like steel fuel
lines rusting from the inside and corosion in carburetors. These things can
be corrected but how do you practically overcome the problem of needle bearings
rusting in a two stroke ? Does anyone have answers ? The thing is these bearings
are not likely to fail on run-up but up in the air and a failure is going
to mean engine out.
I realise we could run Avgas and then add an additive to overcome the lead in
it fouling the plugs. However Avgas costs a lot more and then we also need to
pay more for the additive plus mess around putting the right amount in. Any better
ideas or experience ?
Rex.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Engine company for sale |
As many of you know I have liked my CAM 100 engine in my Fox. It is now
10 years old and pushing 800 hours on it with no real problems. They
have a 5 year 500 hour warranty. The company has made many improvements
on the design, and now use the V-Tech Honda engine that gives a better
power curve than an O-320 until about 130 HP with an all up weight of a
little more than an O-200. The reason I tell you this is that in
conversation with the owner the other day he said that he is now in his
80's and is starting to think it might be time to have someone else take
the engine company to the next level. It is just getting too busy for
him. He and his associates that run the company are pilots and
engineers, and have not done much to market the engines. They sell to a
hovercraft company and for gyrocopters, along with aircraft. It would
also be a great air boat or generator engine. I don't know how many of
the engines are in airplanes, but they have a lot of run time
experience. As those of you in business know it is frequently not the
designers and engineers that make a good product go, it is the next
group that knows how to do something with the good product. This may be
the case with this company. The price for the company is really pennies
on the dollar considering the R&D, tooling, and reputation ( The price
is probably worth it just for their electronic ignition systems and
their redrives for chevy engines) I am not part of the company, I have
no economic interest in the company, and I am getting no commission for
this. These are just great guys with a good product. Their web site,
which is old and out of date is www.firewall.ca and the person you
want to contact if interested is Bob Masters at info(at)firewall.ca
They are not considering shutting down the company, Its just that he
would like time to fly and play a little. When I get in my 80's I will
probably fell the same way.
Thank you and I apologize if you consider this improper use of the list.
Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engine company for sale |
Very proper use of the List Alan. Thanks for the heads up as many of us are
always looking at engine alternatives. Hopefully someone will grab that
ball and run with it.
Deke Morisse
List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aero Engine company for sale
>
> As many of you know I have liked my CAM 100 engine in my Fox. It is now
> 10 years old and pushing 800 hours on it with no real problems. They
> have a 5 year 500 hour warranty. The company has made many improvements
> on the design, and now use the V-Tech Honda engine that gives a better
> power curve than an O-320 until about 130 HP with an all up weight of a
> little more than an O-200. The reason I tell you this is that in
> conversation with the owner the other day he said that he is now in his
> 80's and is starting to think it might be time to have someone else take
> the engine company to the next level. It is just getting too busy for
> him. He and his associates that run the company are pilots and
> engineers, and have not done much to market the engines. They sell to a
> hovercraft company and for gyrocopters, along with aircraft. It would
> also be a great air boat or generator engine. I don't know how many of
> the engines are in airplanes, but they have a lot of run time
> experience. As those of you in business know it is frequently not the
> designers and engineers that make a good product go, it is the next
> group that knows how to do something with the good product. This may be
> the case with this company. The price for the company is really pennies
> on the dollar considering the R&D, tooling, and reputation ( The price
> is probably worth it just for their electronic ignition systems and
> their redrives for chevy engines) I am not part of the company, I have
> no economic interest in the company, and I am getting no commission for
> this. These are just great guys with a good product. Their web site,
> which is old and out of date is www.firewall.ca and the person you
> want to contact if interested is Bob Masters at info(at)firewall.ca
>
> They are not considering shutting down the company, Its just that he
> would like time to fly and play a little. When I get in my 80's I will
> probably fell the same way.
>
> Thank you and I apologize if you consider this improper use of the list.
>
> Alan
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engine company for sale |
How is this honda engine priced in comparison to the rotax ?
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: Fox5flyer <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aero Engine company for sale
Very proper use of the List Alan. Thanks for the heads up as many of us are
always looking at engine alternatives. Hopefully someone will grab that
ball and run with it.
Deke Morisse
List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Linda Daniels" <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aero Engine company for sale
>
> As many of you know I have liked my CAM 100 engine in my Fox. It is now
> 10 years old and pushing 800 hours on it with no real problems. They
> have a 5 year 500 hour warranty. The company has made many improvements
> on the design, and now use the V-Tech Honda engine that gives a better
> power curve than an O-320 until about 130 HP with an all up weight of a
> little more than an O-200. The reason I tell you this is that in
> conversation with the owner the other day he said that he is now in his
> 80's and is starting to think it might be time to have someone else take
> the engine company to the next level. It is just getting too busy for
> him. He and his associates that run the company are pilots and
> engineers, and have not done much to market the engines. They sell to a
> hovercraft company and for gyrocopters, along with aircraft. It would
> also be a great air boat or generator engine. I don't know how many of
> the engines are in airplanes, but they have a lot of run time
> experience. As those of you in business know it is frequently not the
> designers and engineers that make a good product go, it is the next
> group that knows how to do something with the good product. This may be
> the case with this company. The price for the company is really pennies
> on the dollar considering the R&D, tooling, and reputation ( The price
> is probably worth it just for their electronic ignition systems and
> their redrives for chevy engines) I am not part of the company, I have
> no economic interest in the company, and I am getting no commission for
> this. These are just great guys with a good product. Their web site,
> which is old and out of date is www.firewall.ca and the person you
> want to contact if interested is Bob Masters at info(at)firewall.ca
>
> They are not considering shutting down the company, Its just that he
> would like time to fly and play a little. When I get in my 80's I will
> probably fell the same way.
>
> Thank you and I apologize if you consider this improper use of the list.
>
> Alan
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Rodgers" <brodg(at)texas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in WA State |
So, John, this is insightful, however, I would like to know if you agree or
disagree with this proposal to add ethanol and why.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol in WA State
>
> Heads up.. this was just posted on another site
>
> A legislator in WA state is trying to get a 2% ethanol in gasoline
> requirement passed in the current legislative session.
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com <http://www.sportplanellc.com/>
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Aero Engine company for sale |
I saw Alan's CAM engine at a few Skystar fly-ins. Very clean engine and well
designed. Obviously holds up well too. I am surprised that you do not see
many CAMs in sport planes. This could be an opportunity for someone with
good sales skills (and $$$.)
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan & Linda
Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aero Engine company for sale
As many of you know I have liked my CAM 100 engine in my Fox. It is now
10 years old and pushing 800 hours on it with no real problems. They
have a 5 year 500 hour warranty. The company has made many improvements
on the design, and now use the V-Tech Honda engine that gives a better
power curve than an O-320 until about 130 HP with an all up weight of a
little more than an O-200. The reason I tell you this is that in
conversation with the owner the other day he said that he is now in his
80's and is starting to think it might be time to have someone else take
the engine company to the next level. It is just getting too busy for
him. He and his associates that run the company are pilots and
engineers, and have not done much to market the engines. They sell to a
hovercraft company and for gyrocopters, along with aircraft. It would
also be a great air boat or generator engine. I don't know how many of
the engines are in airplanes, but they have a lot of run time
experience. As those of you in business know it is frequently not the
designers and engineers that make a good product go, it is the next
group that knows how to do something with the good product. This may be
the case with this company. The price for the company is really pennies
on the dollar considering the R&D, tooling, and reputation ( The price
is probably worth it just for their electronic ignition systems and
their redrives for chevy engines) I am not part of the company, I have
no economic interest in the company, and I am getting no commission for
this. These are just great guys with a good product. Their web site,
which is old and out of date is www.firewall.ca and the person you
want to contact if interested is Bob Masters at info(at)firewall.ca
They are not considering shutting down the company, Its just that he
would like time to fly and play a little. When I get in my 80's I will
probably fell the same way.
Thank you and I apologize if you consider this improper use of the list.
Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolmbru(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Welcome -off to mexico |
did i here somewon say fly in mexico? go to _www.learntoflytrikes.com_
(http://www.learntoflytrikes.com) to get 50+ stories of flying and raising Hell
in mexico. John olson would take a bunch there mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Welcome - was Cabin Heat |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Alaska!? Brrr. Not without my tupperware :-)
Count me in for the next flight to Bimini though!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12639#12639
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Rig Alignment |
| From: | "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.com> |
Gentlemen
This list is great; your collective experience and willingness to help
has saved me a lot of time and headache.
I'm currently on the wings un-building what the previous kit owner did
to the left wing of my IV-1200 serial #1883. I have corrected a poor
rib #8 installation and will move on to #9 next; they obviously settled
during epoxy setup and were 3/8" out of vertical plumb. Fortunately, a
check for washout and square proved correct.
The #2 rib is 3/16" out of vertical plumb. I hate to ask the question,
but is 3/16" so far out as to be a safety issue? I will do whatever is
necessary to build a safe airplane, but these ribs (and operator) take
some abuse during the slow and careful heat gun process.
Thanks again guys.
Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Graichen" <n10pg(at)neo.rr.com> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of you found a source for
the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture? Or do you know of a
person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You do realize that if one
of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in the water.
Peter Graichen
http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bottom False Ribs |
Anyone have a set of bottom false ribs they want to sell. jezim@pro-ns.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: NSI Isolation Module |
Are you telling us that you're dead in the water Peter? I doubt that those
units were actually manufactured by NSI. The first person I'd call would be
Mykal Templeman at Stratus. As he worked for NSI for quite some time, if
anybody would know where to get one, he would. Are you sure it's the IM?
What are the symptoms?
Deke
>
> Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
>
> Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of you found a source for
> the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture? Or do you know of a
> person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You do realize that if
one
> of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in the water.
> Peter Graichen
> http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rig Alignment |
Matt,
Settling does occur. I remember checking mine every hour or so as the 3-M
structural adhesive set up and had to tweak constantly and still not
perfect.
In answer to your question, though, I suspect the only functional problem
you might see is if the rib in question is one that supports the flaperon
attach brackets. Alignment on those are pretty important. The others?
probably mostly cosmetic as gross misalignment will be visible through the
fabric.
Where are you in Fresno? Are you close to any GA airports or is FAT your
base?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rig Alignment
>
>
>
> Gentlemen
> This list is great; your collective experience and willingness to help
> has saved me a lot of time and headache.
> I'm currently on the wings un-building what the previous kit owner did
> to the left wing of my IV-1200 serial #1883. I have corrected a poor
> rib #8 installation and will move on to #9 next; they obviously settled
> during epoxy setup and were 3/8" out of vertical plumb. Fortunately, a
> check for washout and square proved correct.
> The #2 rib is 3/16" out of vertical plumb. I hate to ask the question,
> but is 3/16" so far out as to be a safety issue? I will do whatever is
> necessary to build a safe airplane, but these ribs (and operator) take
> some abuse during the slow and careful heat gun process.
> Thanks again guys.
> Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bottom False Ribs |
We could probably make up a set of those puppies. I have been working on my
router table lately.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zimmermans" <jezim@pro-ns.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bottom False Ribs
>
> Anyone have a set of bottom false ribs they want to sell.
> jezim@pro-ns.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rig Alignment |
I remember running masking tape along the bottoms and tops to keep everything lined
up until the epoxy set up.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> Matt,
>
> Settling does occur. I remember checking mine every hour or so as the 3-M
> structural adhesive set up and had to tweak constantly and still not
> perfect.
>
> In answer to your question, though, I suspect the only functional problem
> you might see is if the rib in question is one that supports the flaperon
> attach brackets. Alignment on those are pretty important. The others?
> probably mostly cosmetic as gross misalignment will be visible through the
> fabric.
>
> Where are you in Fresno? Are you close to any GA airports or is FAT your
> base?
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Teixeira"
> To: "kitfox-list(at)matronics.com" <'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'>
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:55 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rig Alignment
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gentlemen
> > This list is great; your collective experience and willingness to help
> > has saved me a lot of time and headache.
> > I'm currently on the wings un-building what the previous kit owner did
> > to the left wing of my IV-1200 serial #1883. I have corrected a poor
> > rib #8 installation and will move on to #9 next; they obviously settled
> > during epoxy setup and were 3/8" out of vertical plumb. Fortunately, a
> > check for washout and square proved correct.
> > The #2 rib is 3/16" out of vertical plumb. I hate to ask the question,
> > but is 3/16" so far out as to be a safety issue? I will do whatever is
> > necessary to build a safe airplane, but these ribs (and operator) take
> > some abuse during the slow and careful heat gun process.
> > Thanks again guys.
> > Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I remember running masking tape along the bottoms and tops to keep everything lined
up until the epoxy set up.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
Matt,
Settling does occur. I remember checking mine every hour or so as the 3-M
structural adhesive set up and had to tweak constantly and still not
perfect.
In answer to your question, though, I suspect the only functional problem
you might see is if the rib in question is one that supports the flaperon
attach brackets. Alignment on those are pretty important. The others?
probably mostly cosmetic as gross misalignment will be visible through the
fabric.
Where are you in Fresno? Are you close to any GA airports or is FAT your
base?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Teixeira" <MTEIXEIRA(at)WMLYLESCO.COM>
To: "kitfox-list(at)matronics.com" 'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rig Alignment
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Matt Teixeira"
Gentlemen
This list is great; your collective experience and willingness to help
has saved me a lot of time and headache.
I'm currently on the wings un-building what the previous kit owner did
to the left wing of my IV-1200 serial #1883. I have corrected a poor
rib #8 installation and will move on to #9 next; they obviously settled
during epoxy setup and were 3/8" out of vertical plumb. Fortunately, a
check for washout and square proved correct.
&
gt; The #2 rib is 3/16" out of vertical plumb. I hate to ask the question,
but is 3/16" so far out as to be a safety issue? I will do whatever is
necessary to build a safe airplane, but these ribs (and operator) take
some abuse during the slow and careful heat gun process.
Thanks again guys.
Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Rig Alignment |
| From: | "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.com> |
Lowell
Thanks for your reply. You have settled my mind on my rib #2.
I'm usually based at work just 1/4 mile from FCH, Fresno's downtown
airport. Close enough to run down and take a pilot and their passenger
to lunch or to run cans to a local mogas station. Just let me know when
you are coming in. Right now, I'm 30 miles north building an Ethanol
Plant in Madera; basically a giant still on steroids. Yes, I can say
with relative certainty, that our mogas will now and forever be blended
with a percentage of ethanol.
Building my Kitfox is a dream come true. I can't wait to join the ranks
of you guys and fly a plane that you assembled yourselves.
I have to admit that I was very concerned when Skystar closed their
doors, but you and the others on this list as well as my local EAA have
kept me building and not selling.
I have a list of questions, but I'll hold back until I get closer to
those areas of the build.
Are you in Southern California or Oregon?
Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Rig Alignment
Matt,
Settling does occur. I remember checking mine every hour or so as the
3-M
structural adhesive set up and had to tweak constantly and still not
perfect.
In answer to your question, though, I suspect the only functional
problem
you might see is if the rib in question is one that supports the
flaperon
attach brackets. Alignment on those are pretty important. The others?
probably mostly cosmetic as gross misalignment will be visible through
the
fabric.
Where are you in Fresno? Are you close to any GA airports or is FAT
your
base?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Teixeira" <mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rig Alignment
>
>
>
> Gentlemen
> This list is great; your collective experience and willingness to help
> has saved me a lot of time and headache.
> I'm currently on the wings un-building what the previous kit owner did
> to the left wing of my IV-1200 serial #1883. I have corrected a poor
> rib #8 installation and will move on to #9 next; they obviously
settled
> during epoxy setup and were 3/8" out of vertical plumb. Fortunately,
a
> check for washout and square proved correct.
> The #2 rib is 3/16" out of vertical plumb. I hate to ask the
question,
> but is 3/16" so far out as to be a safety issue? I will do whatever
is
> necessary to build a safe airplane, but these ribs (and operator) take
> some abuse during the slow and careful heat gun process.
> Thanks again guys.
> Matt IV-1200, Fresno, CA.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Guys for the maney ideas I've sold the Kitfox so would you plase take
me off this list
Thanks again David Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
The coil joiners or isolation modules are the weak point in the ignition of
the NSI setup. I have never heard of anyone having their ignition go bad
with the exception of some of us with the early models that had the pickups
go bad. Right now I am running without the modules on one ignition since my
modules went tango uniform on me.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Graichen
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:28 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of you found a source for
the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture? Or do you know of a
person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You do realize that if one
of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in the water.
Peter Graichen
http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NSI Isolation Module |
Haven't crossed that bridge yet Peter. I wonder if
the internal diodes have the manufacturer and
pertinent data stamped on them? If you are still
operating, leave it alone, but if not, getting at the
insides might be useful.
They are just big diodes, though handling high voltage
as they do must be a challenge for them. Still, I
haven't heard of any actually being the cause of
failure yet. I lost one P/U coil, but nothing more.
As far as I remember, you don't fix diodes. Only a
wire failure into or out of them is repairable. That
could possible be a problem with burnthru at a contact
point.
Kurt S.
--- Peter Graichen wrote:
> Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
>
> Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of
> you found a source for
> the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture?
> Or do you know of a
> person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You
> do realize that if one
> of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in
> the water.
> Peter Graichen
> http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airdale wide gear |
| From: | Mark.Summers(at)lwbref.com |
Has anyone had any experience with the wide tube gear made by airdale I
think it is 14" wider than standard and is supposed to fit on kitfoxes
also. I am considering them I would suspect that it should make ground
handling better, any thoughts or expertise. Thanks Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
You can no longer get the original diodes that NSI put in the modules. You
can replace them with mouser electronics part number NTE 517 diode. It is a
higher voltage diode so you only need five rather than the six needed with
the original set-up. They are almost $6 each and you will need at least 40
of them if you are going to rebuild both modules.
Even rebuilt with new diodes, the module is still the weakest single point
failure point in the ignition system.
Mike Logan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
Haven't crossed that bridge yet Peter. I wonder if
the internal diodes have the manufacturer and
pertinent data stamped on them? If you are still
operating, leave it alone, but if not, getting at the
insides might be useful.
They are just big diodes, though handling high voltage
as they do must be a challenge for them. Still, I
haven't heard of any actually being the cause of
failure yet. I lost one P/U coil, but nothing more.
As far as I remember, you don't fix diodes. Only a
wire failure into or out of them is repairable. That
could possible be a problem with burnthru at a contact
point.
Kurt S.
--- Peter Graichen wrote:
> Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
>
> Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of
> you found a source for
> the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture?
> Or do you know of a
> person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You
> do realize that if one
> of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in
> the water.
> Peter Graichen
> http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Odyssey Batterys |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
I picked up one of these to replace the motorcycle battery I'm using now. This
thing should have plenty of power to start my kitfox on cold days. Only problem
is that it's just a tad wider than the current battery box. I noticed that the
battery has some plastic ribs on the sides that I assume are to provide some
space for cooling. I was thinking about filing them down a touch to get it to
fit the box. About 1/3 of the width of the ribs should be plenty so there should
still be some space for cooling. Any thoughts?
-Luis
-N824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12856#12856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fox5flyer" <morid(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: NSI Isolation Module |
I'm a little confused here Mike. Both modules? My NSI has only one
isolation module (coil joiner).
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
>
> You can no longer get the original diodes that NSI put in the modules. You
> can replace them with mouser electronics part number NTE 517 diode. It is
a
> higher voltage diode so you only need five rather than the six needed with
> the original set-up. They are almost $6 each and you will need at least
40
> of them if you are going to rebuild both modules.
>
> Even rebuilt with new diodes, the module is still the weakest single point
> failure point in the ignition system.
>
> Mike Logan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:06 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
>
>
>
> Haven't crossed that bridge yet Peter. I wonder if
> the internal diodes have the manufacturer and
> pertinent data stamped on them? If you are still
> operating, leave it alone, but if not, getting at the
> insides might be useful.
>
> They are just big diodes, though handling high voltage
> as they do must be a challenge for them. Still, I
> haven't heard of any actually being the cause of
> failure yet. I lost one P/U coil, but nothing more.
>
> As far as I remember, you don't fix diodes. Only a
> wire failure into or out of them is repairable. That
> could possible be a problem with burnthru at a contact
> point.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Peter Graichen wrote:
>
> > Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
> >
> > Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of
> > you found a source for
> > the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture?
> > Or do you know of a
> > person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You
> > do realize that if one
> > of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in
> > the water.
> > Peter Graichen
> > http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Baker" <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
Hi Luis,
The ribs are for structural support. Trim with caution.
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Odyssey Batterys
>
> I picked up one of these to replace the motorcycle battery I'm using now.
This thing should have plenty of power to start my kitfox on cold days. Only
problem is that it's just a tad wider than the current battery box. I
noticed that the battery has some plastic ribs on the sides that I assume
are to provide some space for cooling. I was thinking about filing them down
a touch to get it to fit the box. About 1/3 of the width of the ribs should
be plenty so there should still be some space for cooling. Any thoughts?
>
> -Luis
> -N824KF
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12856#12856
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Odyssey Batterys |
When looking for batteries.. consider the sealed battery that we offer..
http://sportplanellc.com/Electrical.htm it fits in the existing battery box
without any trimming..
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Odyssey Batterys
I picked up one of these to replace the motorcycle battery I'm using now.
This thing should have plenty of power to start my kitfox on cold days. Only
problem is that it's just a tad wider than the current battery box. I
noticed that the battery has some plastic ribs on the sides that I assume
are to provide some space for cooling. I was thinking about filing them down
a touch to get it to fit the box. About 1/3 of the width of the ribs should
be plenty so there should still be some space for cooling. Any thoughts?
-Luis
-N824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12856#12856
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
I actually feel better about trimming if they're for structural support. As I understand
it, these things are designed for very high vibration/shock environments
like ATVs and snow mobiles. The battery it's replacing feels much flimsier.
I would think that the relatively snug fit in the plastic battery box will
also add some support. Still not ideal though.
Got any specs on that Deka battery? I didn't build the airplane. How do I tell
if I have a stock battery box?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12877#12877
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SV: Re: Welcome |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Gracias! Must be some nice flyging out your way. Are you on the kitfox owners map
on frappr? Here's a link to me.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12909#12909
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mdkitfox(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Report |
In a message dated 1/23/2006 4:03:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
michel(at)online.no writes:
Michel,
I'm about 2 months behind in reading my email, but I'm slowly getting
through them. I can't help but mention how much I enjoy your comments and the
picture links you provide to all of us. Thanks for the motivation to keep
slugging along. My only comment is the view out your plane of the snow and frozen
earth gives me the chills. If you ever want to fly in the warm sun and over
a warm sea come visit us in Daytona Beach, FL.
Rick Weiss
Series V N39RW and still building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mdkitfox(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Report |
Roger,
Sorry for the late reply, but congratulations on your first flight. I'm
sure the smile is still firmly in place! Way to go.
Blue skies and fair winds,
Rick Weiss
Series V N39RW (still working on it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight Report |
Rick,
Have you moved to the sunny south?
Mike Logan in cold Virginia. Or at least it will be tomorrow.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: First Flight Report
In a message dated 1/23/2006 4:03:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
michel(at)online.no writes:
Michel,
I'm about 2 months behind in reading my email, but I'm slowly getting
through them. I can't help but mention how much I enjoy your comments and
the
picture links you provide to all of us. Thanks for the motivation to keep
slugging along. My only comment is the view out your plane of the snow and
frozen
earth gives me the chills. If you ever want to fly in the warm sun and
over
a warm sea come visit us in Daytona Beach, FL.
Rick Weiss
Series V N39RW and still building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
Mine has two, four wires in and two out on each. How is yours set up?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
I'm a little confused here Mike. Both modules? My NSI has only one
isolation module (coil joiner).
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
>
> You can no longer get the original diodes that NSI put in the modules. You
> can replace them with mouser electronics part number NTE 517 diode. It is
a
> higher voltage diode so you only need five rather than the six needed with
> the original set-up. They are almost $6 each and you will need at least
40
> of them if you are going to rebuild both modules.
>
> Even rebuilt with new diodes, the module is still the weakest single point
> failure point in the ignition system.
>
> Mike Logan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:06 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
>
>
>
> Haven't crossed that bridge yet Peter. I wonder if
> the internal diodes have the manufacturer and
> pertinent data stamped on them? If you are still
> operating, leave it alone, but if not, getting at the
> insides might be useful.
>
> They are just big diodes, though handling high voltage
> as they do must be a challenge for them. Still, I
> haven't heard of any actually being the cause of
> failure yet. I lost one P/U coil, but nothing more.
>
> As far as I remember, you don't fix diodes. Only a
> wire failure into or out of them is repairable. That
> could possible be a problem with burnthru at a contact
> point.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Peter Graichen wrote:
>
> > Hello NSI Subaru drivers:
> >
> > Now that NSI is no longer in business, have any of
> > you found a source for
> > the isolation modules that NSI used to manufacture?
> > Or do you know of a
> > person or firm that can and/or will repair them? You
> > do realize that if one
> > of these units gives up its ghost you are dead in
> > the water.
> > Peter Graichen
> > http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> |
Here's a description of some engine-out practice, the first ever, I had yesterday.
I found it quite enlightening. Others may find interesting - perhaps useful.
The background goes something like this. I'm a relatively low-time pilot (350
hrs) with about 200 in my Kitfox (IV-1200 582 w/IVO medium) and the rest in 172s.
Recently I've been chasing a vibration that was almost certainly prop, gearbox,
or engine. But, in the interest of thoroughness I decided to fly to 3000',
shut down, and do some gliding to see if, perhaps, the airframe was producing
the problem (it wasn't). I invited my tech counselor along because he's
the coolest person I know under even the most trying circumstances and I can be
excitable.
As an aside, since this is a two-stroke engine I've been very concerned with the
possibility of an engine-induced forced landing so all (I mean All) of my downwind,
base, and finals have been with engine at idle (I have the idle set at
about 2050 - 2100 on the ground). I've figured I might as well be ready in case
I really have an engine out. Wasted effort - see below.
To get to the end of the story, we did four separate climbs to about 3000, shut-downs,
and descents to a landing. My plan now is to enlist this willing victim
in data collection as I go to 3500 and do engine-out glides at speeds from
45 mph to 65 mph to re-calculate the best glide speeds.
Here's the story.
Yesterday was a perfectly calm day. We climbed to 3000. Overcoming my increasing
reluctance to actually do it, I shut the engine off. But, surprise number
1, there was not an abrupt stop. It ran for a good 15 - 20 seconds as I slowly
pulled the nose up into a stall - then the prop quit turning (except for a
spastic sort of turn as it went jerkily past compression).
The next surprise was that it wasn't all that quiet - wind noise.
Next was the stall speed - about 42 mph. All my previous stalls had been at about
34 mph. They were all with the engine idling.
Finally the descent rate at best glide speed (55 mph but determined with the engine
idling) was pretty fast and we didn't seem to be covering a lot of ground.
There was essentially no wind at 1000 to 2000 AGL. The descent rate was 500+
fpm.
Of my four descents to landing only two were on the runway initially chosen. One
was on a closer runway due to being too low to make the original destination.
One was aborted about 500' AGL due to being too low. There is a story there,
too. When I decided I needed to restart, the engine didn't cooperate. It
took several tries and a hundred or so feet of altitude to get it going. I had
the throttle at idle and with one hand flying and the other cranking there
was no way to give it more gas. After that experience I locked the throttle at
about 1/3 and the engine started fine.
To summarize - this experience was so unlike what I'd expected (and presumably
practiced for) that it was startling.
I'm very interested in comments from any of you. Including criticisms of technique
or action.
Bill
Albion, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321(at)msn.com> |
The 582 idle speed is too high! On my old IV-1200 582ed (800 hrs), it would
float a long ways when trying to land when the idle was at 2000 rpm static.
I then set it to about 1600-1700 rpm static. Once on the ground with tail
down, I added throttle to taxi with 2000 rpm or more. Just add a bit more
throttle for start engine.
Cheers,
bh
ex-N194KF 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs
> Here's a description of some engine-out practice, the first ever, I had
> yesterday. I found it quite enlightening. Others may find interesting -
> perhaps useful.
>
> The background goes something like this. I'm a relatively low-time pilot
> (350 hrs) with about 200 in my Kitfox (IV-1200 582 w/IVO medium) and the
> rest in 172s. Recently I've been chasing a vibration that was almost
> certainly prop, gearbox, or engine. But, in the interest of thoroughness
> I decided to fly to 3000', shut down, and do some gliding to see if,
> perhaps, the airframe was producing the problem (it wasn't). I invited my
> tech counselor along because he's the coolest person I know under even the
> most trying circumstances and I can be excitable.
>
> As an aside, since this is a two-stroke engine I've been very concerned
> with the possibility of an engine-induced forced landing so all (I mean
> All) of my downwind, base, and finals have been with engine at idle (I
> have the idle set at about 2050 - 2100 on the ground). I've figured I
> might as well be ready in case I really have an engine out. Wasted
> effort - see below.
>
> To get to the end of the story, we did four separate climbs to about 3000,
> shut-downs, and descents to a landing. My plan now is to enlist this
> willing victim in data collection as I go to 3500 and do engine-out glides
> at speeds from 45 mph to 65 mph to re-calculate the best glide speeds.
>
> Here's the story.
> Yesterday was a perfectly calm day. We climbed to 3000. Overcoming my
> increasing reluctance to actually do it, I shut the engine off. But,
> surprise number 1, there was not an abrupt stop. It ran for a good 15 -
> 20 seconds as I slowly pulled the nose up into a stall - then the prop
> quit turning (except for a spastic sort of turn as it went jerkily past
> compression).
> The next surprise was that it wasn't all that quiet - wind noise.
> Next was the stall speed - about 42 mph. All my previous stalls had been
> at about 34 mph. They were all with the engine idling.
> Finally the descent rate at best glide speed (55 mph but determined with
> the engine idling) was pretty fast and we didn't seem to be covering a lot
> of ground. There was essentially no wind at 1000 to 2000 AGL. The
> descent rate was 500+ fpm.
>
> Of my four descents to landing only two were on the runway initially
> chosen. One was on a closer runway due to being too low to make the
> original destination. One was aborted about 500' AGL due to being too
> low. There is a story there, too. When I decided I needed to restart,
> the engine didn't cooperate. It took several tries and a hundred or so
> feet of altitude to get it going. I had the throttle at idle and with one
> hand flying and the other cranking there was no way to give it more gas.
> After that experience I locked the throttle at about 1/3 and the engine
> started fine.
>
> To summarize - this experience was so unlike what I'd expected (and
> presumably practiced for) that it was startling.
>
> I'm very interested in comments from any of you. Including criticisms of
> technique or action.
>
> Bill
> Albion, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
I received a postcard today from Harison Designs, LLC in Kootenai, Idaho aimed
at Kitfox owners and advertising Affordable Vortex generators for $95 per wing.
Needless to say, the claims made sound impressive. Does anyone in the group
have any experience with these, and if so, what is your impression?
Thanks
Clem Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
This is just an opinion...
While the VG's, plastic or aluminum, are going to work essentially the same.
I feel the aluminum is a better way to go. If you paint the plastic ones
they will most likely last a awhile.. but I know the aluminum ones are going
to. Also, while the kit we offer http://sportplanellc.com/Wing.htm is more
expensive it also has the instructions, adhesive, tape, video and templates.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
I received a postcard today from Harison Designs, LLC in Kootenai, Idaho
aimed at Kitfox owners and advertising Affordable Vortex generators for $95
per wing. Needless to say, the claims made sound impressive. Does anyone
in the group have any experience with these, and if so, what is your
impression?
Thanks
Clem Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Business Address <rdarchangel(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model IV Wing Extensions |
I have POH information specific to the Speedster with a 912UL.. contact
me and I will send you copies of the data you need.
Dick
Your Name wrote:
>
>
>I would like to find a source for the wing extensions for my Model IV
>Speedster. Also I would like to know if anyone has POH information
>specific to the Speedster with a 912UL.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Shiple <fredshiple(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Report |
Roger,
Just catching up on the mail.
Congratulations on the first flight!
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Your Name" <dwayne(at)flywv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model IV Wing Extensions |
Dick,
Thanks for the reply! Is the POH info that you have in a format so
that you can email it? If not let me know what to send you for mailing
it to me.
Thanks,
Dwayne
>
> I have POH information specific to the Speedster with a 912UL..
contact
> me and I will send you copies of the data you need.
> Dick
> Your Name wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I would like to find a source for the wing extensions for my Model
IV
> >Speedster. Also I would like to know if anyone has POH information
> >specific to the Speedster with a 912UL.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Your Name" <dwayne(at)flywv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model IV Wing Extensions |
Dick,
Thanks for the reply! Is the POH info that you have in a format so
that you can email it? If not let me know what to send you for mailing
it to me.
Thanks,
Dwayne
>
> I have POH information specific to the Speedster with a 912UL..
contact
> me and I will send you copies of the data you need.
> Dick
> Your Name wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I would like to find a source for the wing extensions for my Model
IV
> >Speedster. Also I would like to know if anyone has POH information
> >specific to the Speedster with a 912UL.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
Hi Michael,
I haven't dealt with such high tension diodes before,
but it seems to me likely that only one broke down in
the bunch. Do you know of a way to adequately test
these and replace only the bad one?
Obviously they will have to be seperated first for
testing. The problem I think is that it may test well
at low voltage or with a meter and only fail under
higher voltages.
This could be a more economical repair. But then I
wonder if unmatched diodes will cause a weaker one to
break down more quickly? I've not gone beyond 120
volt diodes in my experience.
Kurt S.
--- Michael Logan wrote:
> You can no longer get the original diodes that NSI
> put in the modules. You
> can replace them with mouser electronics part number
> NTE 517 diode. It is a
> higher voltage diode so you only need five rather
> than the six needed with
> the original set-up. They are almost $6 each and
> you will need at least 40
> of them if you are going to rebuild both modules.
>
> Even rebuilt with new diodes, the module is still
> the weakest single point
> failure point in the ignition system.
>
> Mike Logan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Promotional Videos |
| From: | Brent E Bidus <brentbidus(at)juno.com> |
Anybody know if these are still available? I've tried to get in touch
with Grant with no luck.
Brent Bidus
writes:
>
> Hello All,
> There appears to be some interest in seeing the
> promotional videos that I have put on two DVD's. For
> anyone that wants to buy one, I will mail them out for
> $5. This will cover the postage, dvd media, my time,
> and wear & tear on my dvd burner.
> If you'd rather watch them and mail them on to the
> next person, we can do that too. Keep in mind it will
> cost over a $1 for postage and your time to package it
> and mail it to the next person.
> Send me an email off list if you'd like to buy the
> dvd's or just watch them and mail them on to the next
> person. I'll keep the two lists and put the names in
> the order that they were received. For the 8 people
> that have already expressed interest, let me know what
> you'd like to do.
> Thanks,
> Grant Fluent
> Newcastle, NE
> Classic IV 912S
>
>
> --- Grant Fluent wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> > About a year ago, I completed a video project
> > putting all of the Kitfox promotional videos that I
> > could find on two DVDs. The two completed DVDs were
> > sent to Frank Miller for his approval for me to
> > distribute to the Kitfox list but he never
> > responded.
> > With what has now happened to Skystar, can I legally
> > send these DVDs out? Any lawyers here? If so, is
> > there anyone on here that is interested in viewing
> > them?
> > Thanks,
> > Grant Fluent
> > Newcastle, NE
> > Classic IV 912S
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rex <gypsybee(at)copper.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Promotional Videos |
Hi Brent,
Howzitgoin?
I would guess they should still be available. I got them about 4 months
ago and I'm very happy with them. I was able to buy them using PayPal
and it was very easy that way. I would have to research my account to
see if I still have his account address as I don't seem to have it in my
email archives.
Rex
N740GP, M2 - 582
Colorado (currently in Orlando, FL)
Brent E Bidus wrote:
>
>Anybody know if these are still available? I've tried to get in touch
>with Grant with no luck.
>
>Brent Bidus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grant Fluent <gjfpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Promotional Videos |
Hi Brent,
Sorry for the late response. I hadn't checked my
email for a few days. Yes, the videos are still
available. Send me your mailing address off list and
I'll get them out to you. If anyone else is
interested, let me know.
Thanks,
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV 912S
--- Brent E Bidus wrote:
>
>
> Anybody know if these are still available? I've
> tried to get in touch
> with Grant with no luck.
>
> Brent Bidus
>
> Fluent
> writes:
>
> >
> > Hello All,
> > There appears to be some interest in seeing the
> > promotional videos that I have put on two DVD's.
> For
> > anyone that wants to buy one, I will mail them out
> for
> > $5. This will cover the postage, dvd media, my
> time,
> > and wear & tear on my dvd burner.
> > If you'd rather watch them and mail them on to
> the
> > next person, we can do that too. Keep in mind it
> will
> > cost over a $1 for postage and your time to
> package it
> > and mail it to the next person.
> > Send me an email off list if you'd like to buy
> the
> > dvd's or just watch them and mail them on to the
> next
> > person. I'll keep the two lists and put the names
> in
> > the order that they were received. For the 8
> people
> > that have already expressed interest, let me know
> what
> > you'd like to do.
> > Thanks,
> > Grant Fluent
> > Newcastle, NE
> > Classic IV 912S
> >
> >
> > --- Grant Fluent wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > > About a year ago, I completed a video project
> > > putting all of the Kitfox promotional videos
> that I
> > > could find on two DVDs. The two completed DVDs
> were
> > > sent to Frank Miller for his approval for me to
> > > distribute to the Kitfox list but he never
> > > responded.
> > > With what has now happened to Skystar, can I
> legally
> > > send these DVDs out? Any lawyers here? If so, is
> > > there anyone on here that is interested in
> viewing
> > > them?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Grant Fluent
> > > Newcastle, NE
> > > Classic IV 912S
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > browse
> > > Subscriptions page,
> > > FAQ,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
John,
Is your kit for the complete airplane including the tail?
Mike Logan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
This is just an opinion...
While the VG's, plastic or aluminum, are going to work essentially the same.
I feel the aluminum is a better way to go. If you paint the plastic ones
they will most likely last a awhile.. but I know the aluminum ones are going
to. Also, while the kit we offer http://sportplanellc.com/Wing.htm is more
expensive it also has the instructions, adhesive, tape, video and templates.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
I received a postcard today from Harison Designs, LLC in Kootenai, Idaho
aimed at Kitfox owners and advertising Affordable Vortex generators for $95
per wing. Needless to say, the claims made sound impressive. Does anyone
in the group have any experience with these, and if so, what is your
impression?
Thanks
Clem Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
We tested all of the diodes in my bad module and they all tested good under
the normal testing. I have not dealt with these high voltage diodes before
so I am sure there is something that I am missing on the tests. There is
probably a special high voltage tester out there somewhere.
The old diodes have a rectangular cross section and the new diodes have a
round cross section. Makes it difficult to mix and match.
Mike Logan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:15 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
Hi Michael,
I haven't dealt with such high tension diodes before,
but it seems to me likely that only one broke down in
the bunch. Do you know of a way to adequately test
these and replace only the bad one?
Obviously they will have to be seperated first for
testing. The problem I think is that it may test well
at low voltage or with a meter and only fail under
higher voltages.
This could be a more economical repair. But then I
wonder if unmatched diodes will cause a weaker one to
break down more quickly? I've not gone beyond 120
volt diodes in my experience.
Kurt S.
--- Michael Logan wrote:
> You can no longer get the original diodes that NSI
> put in the modules. You
> can replace them with mouser electronics part number
> NTE 517 diode. It is a
> higher voltage diode so you only need five rather
> than the six needed with
> the original set-up. They are almost $6 each and
> you will need at least 40
> of them if you are going to rebuild both modules.
>
> Even rebuilt with new diodes, the module is still
> the weakest single point
> failure point in the ignition system.
>
> Mike Logan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
Mike,
Yes it is
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Logan
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
John,
Is your kit for the complete airplane including the tail?
Mike Logan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
This is just an opinion...
While the VG's, plastic or aluminum, are going to work essentially the same.
I feel the aluminum is a better way to go. If you paint the plastic ones
they will most likely last a awhile.. but I know the aluminum ones are going
to. Also, while the kit we offer http://sportplanellc.com/Wing.htm is more
expensive it also has the instructions, adhesive, tape, video and templates.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex generators
I received a postcard today from Harison Designs, LLC in Kootenai, Idaho
aimed at Kitfox owners and advertising Affordable Vortex generators for $95
per wing. Needless to say, the claims made sound impressive. Does anyone
in the group have any experience with these, and if so, what is your
impression?
Thanks
Clem Nichols
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
OK Michael,
I wasn't sure if you were a spark guru or not.
These diodes are probably just like spark plug wires
in that they only show a fault when under high voltage
loads. There is always some voltage under which each
will break down. As they age and wear, that voltage
drops until it reaches the operating voltage and then
they fail. But something lower than that voltage may
still work.
If you were into playing around, you could make a
tester with a spark coil, some spark plug wire, a
little 12 volt wire, a momentary switch, a spark plug,
and a 12 volt battery. All you need to do is rig the
battery to the coil thru a momentary switch. Then,
off the high side, center post of the coil, run your
wire to the plug. Now the plug needs to be grounded
back to the coil with another spark plyug wire. That
is usually done by your engine block, but must be
added on the tester.
The spark will occur only at the moment you turn the
coil on or off from the battery thru the momentary
switch. The coil is AC activated and the battery is
DC, so it only blasts a spark as it turns on or off.
Keeping it on does nothing but run down the battery.
Test it and make sure it works as is first.
The diode should only allow the spark to go in one
direction. If it is failed, it will give a spark in
both directions. To test one, you put it in the line
between the coil and the plug. Test it both ways. If
it sparks only one way and not the other, it should be
good. If you get a spark both ways, it is bad.
Now the problem is that the NSI modules might create a
higher voltage spark than the coil you use, so you
need to get the highest voltage coil you can find.
Otherwise the test is not good for the modules
voltage.
Does any of that make sense? Hope it helps,
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Michael Logan wrote:
> We tested all of the diodes in my bad module and
> they all tested good under
> the normal testing. I have not dealt with these
> high voltage diodes before
> so I am sure there is something that I am missing on
> the tests. There is
> probably a special high voltage tester out there
> somewhere.
>
> The old diodes have a rectangular cross section and
> the new diodes have a
> round cross section. Makes it difficult to mix and
> match.
>
> Mike Logan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | NSI Isolation Module |
Normally when a diode goes bad, it goes bad as an open which is what is
happening on these. When I was testing originally, I was getting fire on
the number one plug only part of the time which meant it was an open.
Thanks for the test procedure though. Maybe some day I will get up the
gumption to build a test set.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Isolation Module
OK Michael,
I wasn't sure if you were a spark guru or not.
These diodes are probably just like spark plug wires
in that they only show a fault when under high voltage
loads. There is always some voltage under which each
will break down. As they age and wear, that voltage
drops until it reaches the operating voltage and then
they fail. But something lower than that voltage may
still work.
If you were into playing around, you could make a
tester with a spark coil, some spark plug wire, a
little 12 volt wire, a momentary switch, a spark plug,
and a 12 volt battery. All you need to do is rig the
battery to the coil thru a momentary switch. Then,
off the high side, center post of the coil, run your
wire to the plug. Now the plug needs to be grounded
back to the coil with another spark plyug wire. That
is usually done by your engine block, but must be
added on the tester.
The spark will occur only at the moment you turn the
coil on or off from the battery thru the momentary
switch. The coil is AC activated and the battery is
DC, so it only blasts a spark as it turns on or off.
Keeping it on does nothing but run down the battery.
Test it and make sure it works as is first.
The diode should only allow the spark to go in one
direction. If it is failed, it will give a spark in
both directions. To test one, you put it in the line
between the coil and the plug. Test it both ways. If
it sparks only one way and not the other, it should be
good. If you get a spark both ways, it is bad.
Now the problem is that the NSI modules might create a
higher voltage spark than the coil you use, so you
need to get the highest voltage coil you can find.
Otherwise the test is not good for the modules
voltage.
Does any of that make sense? Hope it helps,
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Michael Logan wrote:
> We tested all of the diodes in my bad module and
> they all tested good under
> the normal testing. I have not dealt with these
> high voltage diodes before
> so I am sure there is something that I am missing on
> the tests. There is
> probably a special high voltage tester out there
> somewhere.
>
> The old diodes have a rectangular cross section and
> the new diodes have a
> round cross section. Makes it difficult to mix and
> match.
>
> Mike Logan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Liles <wliles(at)bayou.com> |
Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
Jerry Liles
Chenoweth wrote:
>
>Here's a description of some engine-out practice, the first ever, I had yesterday.
I found it quite enlightening. Others may find interesting - perhaps useful.
>
>The background goes something like this. I'm a relatively low-time pilot (350
hrs) with about 200 in my Kitfox (IV-1200 582 w/IVO medium) and the rest in 172s.
Recently I've been chasing a vibration that was almost certainly prop, gearbox,
or engine. But, in the interest of thoroughness I decided to fly to 3000',
shut down, and do some gliding to see if, perhaps, the airframe was producing
the problem (it wasn't). I invited my tech counselor along because he's
the coolest person I know under even the most trying circumstances and I can
be excitable.
>
>As an aside, since this is a two-stroke engine I've been very concerned with the
possibility of an engine-induced forced landing so all (I mean All) of my downwind,
base, and finals have been with engine at idle (I have the idle set at
about 2050 - 2100 on the ground). I've figured I might as well be ready in
case I really have an engine out. Wasted effort - see below.
>
>To get to the end of the story, we did four separate climbs to about 3000, shut-downs,
and descents to a landing. My plan now is to enlist this willing victim
in data collection as I go to 3500 and do engine-out glides at speeds from
45 mph to 65 mph to re-calculate the best glide speeds.
>
>Here's the story.
>Yesterday was a perfectly calm day. We climbed to 3000. Overcoming my increasing
reluctance to actually do it, I shut the engine off. But, surprise number
1, there was not an abrupt stop. It ran for a good 15 - 20 seconds as I slowly
pulled the nose up into a stall - then the prop quit turning (except for
a spastic sort of turn as it went jerkily past compression).
>The next surprise was that it wasn't all that quiet - wind noise.
>Next was the stall speed - about 42 mph. All my previous stalls had been at about
34 mph. They were all with the engine idling.
>Finally the descent rate at best glide speed (55 mph but determined with the engine
idling) was pretty fast and we didn't seem to be covering a lot of ground.
There was essentially no wind at 1000 to 2000 AGL. The descent rate was 500+
fpm.
>
>Of my four descents to landing only two were on the runway initially chosen.
One was on a closer runway due to being too low to make the original destination.
One was aborted about 500' AGL due to being too low. There is a story there,
too. When I decided I needed to restart, the engine didn't cooperate. It
took several tries and a hundred or so feet of altitude to get it going. I
had the throttle at idle and with one hand flying and the other cranking there
was no way to give it more gas. After that experience I locked the throttle
at about 1/3 and the engine started fine.
>
>To summarize - this experience was so unlike what I'd expected (and presumably
practiced for) that it was startling.
>
>I'm very interested in comments from any of you. Including criticisms of technique
or action.
>
>Bill
>Albion, Maine
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dcaofak" <dcaofak(at)acsalaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
Luis,
I recently made a similar change installing a sealed gel battery that was slightly
larger than the original.
I simply fabricated an aluminum battery tray and hold down strap, a little fabric
reinforced rubber sheet for cushioning, and used the mounting points from the
old box.
While I was at it I moved the starter solenoid to the same side of the firewall
as the battery (both in the cabin behind the panel on the left side.). This
eliminated the 'always hot' wire wire running from the battery to the solenoid
from going through the firewall, a poor design decision on my part when building
the plane
Regards,
John Stoner
KF3, 582
Alaska.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Interesting. My airplane has the same 'feature' with the solenoid. I guess I should
take a closer look at that. I ended up going down a size on the battery because
it turned out to be a little too tall as well as wide. I could get it in
there but the terminals would end up a little too close to the frame for comfort.
It was a tough choice though because the smaller battery is just an inch
shorter with the same footprint and only a lb lighter but it gives up over 40%
in capacity. To boot it was $30 more expensive :-(
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13143#13143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Banes" <JohnBanes(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Odyssey Batterys |
I trimmed my Odyssey with no apparent ill effects. It's been in service for
over a year with 185+ hours on the Hobbs.
John
S6 912S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Jerry,
if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
Herbert Gottelt,
Mt. Prospect, IL
Jerry Liles wrote:
Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
Jerry Liles
Chenoweth wrote:
>
>Here's a description of some engine-out practice, the first ever, I had yesterday.
I found it quite enlightening. Others may find interesting - perhaps useful.
>
>The background goes something like this. I'm a relatively low-time pilot (350
hrs) with about 200 in my Kitfox (IV-1200 582 w/IVO medium) and the rest in 172s.
Recently I've been chasing a vibration that was almost certainly prop, gearbox,
or engine. But, in the interest of thoroughness I decided to fly to 3000',
shut down, and do some gliding to see if, perhaps, the airframe was producing
the problem (it wasn't). I invited my tech counselor along because he's the
coolest person I know under even the most trying circumstances and I can be excitable.
>
>As an aside, since this is a two-stroke engine I've been very concerned with the
possibility of an engine-induced forced landing so all (I mean All) of my downwind,
base, and finals have been with engine at idle (I have the idle set at
about 2050 - 2100 on the ground). I've figured I might as well be ready in case
I really have an engine out. Wasted effort - see below.
>
>To get to the end of the story, we did four separate climbs to about 3000, shut-downs,
and descents to a landing. My plan now is to enlist this willing victim
in data collection as I go to 3500 and do engine-out glides at speeds from
45 mph to 65 mph to re-calculate the best glide speeds.
>
>Here's the story.
>Yesterday was a perfectly calm day. We climbed to 3000. Overcoming my increasing
reluctance to actually do it, I shut the engine off. But, surprise number 1,
there was not an abrupt stop. It ran for a good 15 - 20 seconds as I slowly
pulled the nose up into a stall - then the prop quit turning (except for a spastic
sort of turn as it went jerkily past compression).
>The next surprise was that it wasn't all that quiet - wind noise.
>Next was the stall speed - about 42 mph. All my previous stalls had been at about
34 mph. They were all with the engine idling.
>Finally the descent rate at best glide speed (55 mph but determined with the engine
idling) was pretty fast and we didn't seem to be covering a lot of ground.
There was essentially no wind at 1000 to 2000 AGL. The descent rate was 500+
fpm.
>
>Of my four descents to landing only two were on the runway initially chosen. One
was on a closer runway due to being too low to make the original destination.
One was aborted about 500' AGL due to being too low. There is a story there,
too. When I decided I needed to restart, the engine didn't cooperate. It took
several tries and a hundred or so feet of altitude to get it going. I had the
throttle at idle and with one hand flying and the other cranking there was no
way to give it more gas. After that experience I locked the throttle at about
1/3 and the engine started fine.
>
>To summarize - this experience was so unlike what I'd expected (and presumably
practiced for) that it was startling.
>
>I'm very interested in comments from any of you. Including criticisms of technique
or action.
>
>Bill
>Albion, Maine
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingsdown" <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> |
Yep, that was one of the most surprising aspects of my engine out and
subsequent crash. The descent rate was much higher. If you have a free
wheeling redrive as I did, it is even worse that just having the prop
stop.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Liles
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine out
Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine
running.
Jerry Liles
Chenoweth wrote:
>
>Here's a description of some engine-out practice, the first ever, I had
>yesterday. I found it quite enlightening. Others may find interesting
>- perhaps useful.
>
>The background goes something like this. I'm a relatively low-time
>pilot (350 hrs) with about 200 in my Kitfox (IV-1200 582 w/IVO medium)
>and the rest in 172s. Recently I've been chasing a vibration that was
>almost certainly prop, gearbox, or engine. But, in the interest of
>thoroughness I decided to fly to 3000', shut down, and do some gliding
>to see if, perhaps, the airframe was producing the problem (it wasn't).
>I invited my tech counselor along because he's the coolest person I
>know under even the most trying circumstances and I can be excitable.
>
>As an aside, since this is a two-stroke engine I've been very concerned
with the possibility of an engine-induced forced landing so all (I mean
All) of my downwind, base, and finals have been with engine at idle (I
have the idle set at about 2050 - 2100 on the ground). I've figured I
might as well be ready in case I really have an engine out. Wasted
effort - see below.
>
>To get to the end of the story, we did four separate climbs to about
>3000, shut-downs, and descents to a landing. My plan now is to enlist
>this willing victim in data collection as I go to 3500 and do
>engine-out glides at speeds from 45 mph to 65 mph to re-calculate the
>best glide speeds.
>
>Here's the story.
>Yesterday was a perfectly calm day. We climbed to 3000. Overcoming
my increasing reluctance to actually do it, I shut the engine off. But,
surprise number 1, there was not an abrupt stop. It ran for a good 15 -
20 seconds as I slowly pulled the nose up into a stall - then the prop
quit turning (except for a spastic sort of turn as it went jerkily past
compression).
>The next surprise was that it wasn't all that quiet - wind noise. Next
>was the stall speed - about 42 mph. All my previous stalls had been at
>about 34 mph. They were all with the engine idling. Finally the
>descent rate at best glide speed (55 mph but determined with the engine
>idling) was pretty fast and we didn't seem to be covering a lot of
>ground. There was essentially no wind at 1000 to 2000 AGL. The
>descent rate was 500+ fpm.
>
>Of my four descents to landing only two were on the runway initially
>chosen. One was on a closer runway due to being too low to make the
>original destination. One was aborted about 500' AGL due to being too
>low. There is a story there, too. When I decided I needed to restart,
>the engine didn't cooperate. It took several tries and a hundred or so
>feet of altitude to get it going. I had the throttle at idle and with
>one hand flying and the other cranking there was no way to give it more
>gas. After that experience I locked the throttle at about 1/3 and the
>engine started fine.
>
>To summarize - this experience was so unlike what I'd expected (and
>presumably practiced for) that it was startling.
>
>I'm very interested in comments from any of you. Including criticisms
>of technique or action.
>
>Bill
>Albion, Maine
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Hey John. Which model did you get? I was originally looking at the PC625 but went
down to the PC535 because of height constraints. I bought it from a local Batteries
Plus dealer who was very helpful. According to him, the Odyssey is a
mil spec battery and even the smaller 535 has more than twice the starting power
as your typical lead acid motorcycle battery of the same size. I could not
confirm because so few manufacturers will provide real specs for their batteries.
-Luis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13161#13161
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Liles <wliles(at)bayou.com> |
Herbert
I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
Jerry Liles
Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>Jerry,
> if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>
> Herbert Gottelt,
> Mt. Prospect, IL
>
>Jerry Liles wrote:
>
>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>
>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>
>Jerry Liles
>
>Chenoweth wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batterys |
John,
I'm a little confused by your post. I don't understand the "always hot"
wiire from the battery to the solenoid. Back in 1993 when my kit came the
wiring diagram called for a master soleniod which I attached to the battery
box and a starter solenoid down line from the master solenoid. The starter
solenoid is mounted near the starter on the engine side of the firewall.
With the master switch off there is no power to anything but the clock and
of course the small pigtail to the master solenoid.
Do I understand from your post that you don't have a master solenoid?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "dcaofak" <dcaofak(at)acsalaska.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Odyssey Batterys
>
> Luis,
> I recently made a similar change installing a sealed gel battery that was
> slightly larger than the original.
> I simply fabricated an aluminum battery tray and hold down strap, a little
> fabric reinforced rubber sheet for cushioning, and used the mounting
> points from the old box.
> While I was at it I moved the starter solenoid to the same side of the
> firewall as the battery (both in the cabin behind the panel on the left
> side.). This eliminated the 'always hot' wire wire running from the
> battery to the solenoid from going through the firewall, a poor design
> decision on my part when building the plane
> Regards,
> John Stoner
> KF3, 582
> Alaska.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex Shaw" <rexjan(at)bigpond.com> |
I haven't dealt with such high tension diodes before,
but it seems to me likely that only one broke down in
the bunch. Do you know of a way to adequately test
these and replace only the bad one?
Obviously they will have to be seperated first for
testing. The problem I think is that it may test well
at low voltage or with a meter and only fail under
higher voltages.
This could be a more economical repair. But then I
wonder if unmatched diodes will cause a weaker one to
break down more quickly? I've not gone beyond 120
volt diodes in my experience.
Kurt S.
Hi ! Kurt,
I don't know what this box NSI is using is all about, however I can
answer some of your questions on a theoretical basis as an electronics tech.
First high voltage solid state components like doides did tend to be a weak point
but newer versions are dramatically improved so take heart that a repair
or rebuild will likely be effective. Also be aware heat is a big time killer of
solid state components so just a little effort in this regard might also work
wonders.
When relacing your faulty doide[s] find the original doide voltage and current
ratings and at at least equal those figures with your replacements especially
the voltage I think in your case. This may not be a hard task as you might think.
OK lets answer your questions.
[1] to test a diode. Yes you basically need to isolate it but if it is one in a
string that is no problem so long as there is no possible path from the end of
the string back to the start. To test a diode you just use an ohm meter [ ie:-
the ohms scale on a multimeter and personally I prefer an analogue meter for
this purpose] Just measure across the diode you are checking with one meter
lead on each end of the diode and the meter on ohms, then swap the two leads around.
One way around you will have a low ohms reding like probably 30 0hms the
other you will have a very high reading. In fact if you are on the low ohms
scale it should be no reading as if you did not put the leads on the diode at
all. In other words reading open circuit, but if you you swap to a high ohms scale
then you should get a reading. take care not to confuse the issue by putting
your fingers on the leads as you will get a high ohms reading through your
body and this will confuse the issue. Take note roughly of your high and low
readings. Diodes have polarity. In other words putting the leads one way around
gives you a low reading and the other high. In fact it should be that you will
see a band painted around one end of the diode and with your red meter lead
on this end is when you should see your low reading. If not don't panic you just
have your meter setup wrong and this won't matter. However the way around
you put the old diode or a relacement back in circuit definitely does. You won't
get a second chance at this. So the way to know which way around to fit the
diode is by this band or failing that by using your meter as described you can
work it out. It sounds like in your circuit you have a string of diodes one
after the other and they will just go band end to no band end etc down the string.
Back to the testing. Any diode with significantly different reading is faultly.
Typically this will be with low ohms readings both ways around and might
even be a short circuit as if you were putting the meter leads together, however
a fau!
lty diod
e may measure open circuit. Usually however it will be short circuit. Now one final
point here is that some high voltage diodes might need the meter on a higher
than the lowest ohms scale to get a reading even in the low direction. If
you find this that's OK so long as all diodes are similar.
[2] Right if just one diode has failed you can just replace that with no effect
on the others but I would suggest that if one has failed the others might also
be close so consider changing them all especially if you can get better rated
diodes than the originals. Basically if your diodes check OK at lower voltage
[ ie:- on your meter ] they will still be OK at higher voltage as when they
break down they brake down but that is not 100% just 99.99%.
[3] I think I have already answered your third question. A new diode in with
old ones is not really a problem basically. If in doubt just change them all.
It's too complicated to try and explain better.
I hope this helps both you and others that encounter this problem as it seems
to me it should not be much of a problem at all to put right. However if you
are still having difficulty feel free to ask me further.
Rex.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herbert R Gottelt <gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net> |
O.K. Jerry,
My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch that
Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably referred
to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the clutch on my
chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
Herbert Gottelt
Jerry Liles wrote:
Herbert
I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
Jerry Liles
Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>Jerry,
> if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>
> Herbert Gottelt,
> Mt. Prospect, IL
>
>Jerry Liles wrote:
>
>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>
>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>
>Jerry Liles
>
>Chenoweth wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Air start on 912ULS |
With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine condition.
Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked glide
at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get an
airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
those high compression engines. Clint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Air start on 912ULS |
Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport - if
you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling of
gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have a
582). It's starter or ropestart only!
It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some months
ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine (including
prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward out
of feather!
Andrew
>From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
>
>
>
>With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine condition.
>Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked glide
>at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get an
>airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
>times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
>those high compression engines. Clint
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaun Smith <shaun-s(at)sbcglobal.net> |
please no more email thank you!
I haven't dealt with such high tension diodes before,
but it seems to me likely that only one broke down in
the bunch. Do you know of a way to adequately test
these and replace only the bad one?
Obviously they will have to be seperated first for
testing. The problem I think is that it may test well
at low voltage or with a meter and only fail under
higher voltages.
This could be a more economical repair. But then I
wonder if unmatched diodes will cause a weaker one to
break down more quickly? I've not gone beyond 120
volt diodes in my experience.
Kurt S.
Hi ! Kurt,
I don't know what this box NSI is using is all about, however I can answer some
of your questions on a theoretical basis as an electronics tech.
First high voltage solid state components like doides did tend to be a weak point
but newer versions are dramatically improved so take heart that a repair or
rebuild will likely be effective. Also be aware heat is a big time killer of
solid state components so just a little effort in this regard might also work
wonders.
When relacing your faulty doide[s] find the original doide voltage and current
ratings and at at least equal those figures with your replacements especially
the voltage I think in your case. This may not be a hard task as you might think.
OK lets answer your questions.
[1] to test a diode. Yes you basically need to isolate it but if it is one in a
string that is no problem so long as there is no possible path from the end of
the string back to the start. To test a diode you just use an ohm meter [ ie:-
the ohms scale on a multimeter and personally I prefer an analogue meter for
this purpose] Just measure across the diode you are checking with one meter
lead on each end of the diode and the meter on ohms, then swap the two leads around.
One way around you will have a low ohms reding like probably 30 0hms the
other you will have a very high reading. In fact if you are on the low ohms
scale it should be no reading as if you did not put the leads on the diode at
all. In other words reading open circuit, but if you you swap to a high ohms scale
then you should get a reading. take care not to confuse the issue by putting
your fingers on the leads as you will get a high ohms reading through your
body and this will confuse the issue. Take note rou!
ghly of your high and low readings. Diodes have polarity. In other words putting
the leads one way around gives you a low reading and the other high. In fact
it should be that you will see a band painted around one end of the diode and
with your red meter lead on this end is when you should see your low reading.
If not don't panic you just have your meter setup wrong and this won't matter.
However the way around you put the old diode or a relacement back in circuit
definitely does. You won't get a second chance at this. So the way to know which
way around to fit the diode is by this band or failing that by using your
meter as described you can work it out. It sounds like in your circuit you have
a string of diodes one after the other and they will just go band end to no
band end etc down the string. Back to the testing. Any diode with significantly
different reading is faultly. Typically this will be with low ohms readings
both ways around and might even be a short circuit !
as if you were putting the meter leads together, however a fau!
lty diod
e may measure open circuit. Usually however it will be short circuit. Now one final
point here is that some high voltage diodes might need the meter on a higher
than the lowest ohms scale to get a reading even in the low direction. If
you find this that's OK so long as all diodes are similar.
[2] Right if just one diode has failed you can just replace that with no effect
on the others but I would suggest that if one has failed the others might also
be close so consider changing them all especially if you can get better rated
diodes than the originals. Basically if your diodes check OK at lower voltage
[ ie:- on your meter ] they will still be OK at higher voltage as when they
break down they brake down but that is not 100% just 99.99%.
[3] I think I have already answered your third question. A new diode in with old
ones is not really a problem basically. If in doubt just change them all. It's
too complicated to try and explain better.
I hope this helps both you and others that encounter this problem as it seems to
me it should not be much of a problem at all to put right. However if you are
still having difficulty feel free to ask me further.
Rex.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Liles <wliles(at)bayou.com> |
No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
Jerry Liles
Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>O.K. Jerry,
>
> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch that
Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably referred
to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the clutch on my
chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>
> Herbert Gottelt
>
>Jerry Liles wrote:
>
>
>Herbert
>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Jerry,
>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>
>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>
>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>
>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>
>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Larsen <jopatco(at)mindspring.com> |
It is different in principle but the effects are the same in that the
prop will freewheel when the engine quits. That is why Lance had to come
up with a CAP. If you don't think a freewheeling prop doesnt have a lot
of drag/lift, then you don't believe a gyrocopter can fly.
Jerry Liles wrote:
>
>No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
>concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
>sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
>the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
>the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>O.K. Jerry,
>>
>> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch that
Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably referred
to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the clutch on my
chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>>
>> Herbert Gottelt
>>
>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>
>>
>>Herbert
>>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>>
>>
>>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>
>
>>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Jerry,
>>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your engine
without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a heck of
the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>>
>>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>>
>>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>>
>>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
Andrew,
One of the reasons I posted my first ever shut down was my surprise at the
difference in stall speed between an idling and stopped engine. That hasn't
seemed to have surprised anyone - at least no one has expressed surprise.
Have you found the same difference in stall speeds in your shutdowns? Also,
do you have best glide speeds for a stopped engine glide?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>
> Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
if
> you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
>
> Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
of
> gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have a
> 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
>
> It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some months
> ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine (including
> prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
out
> of feather!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> >From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
> >
> >
> >
> >With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
condition.
> >Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked
glide
> >at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get
an
> >airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
> >times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
> >those high compression engines. Clint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kirk hull" <kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Thats why many twins can fearher the props on a dead engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Larsen
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine out
It is different in principle but the effects are the same in that the
prop will freewheel when the engine quits. That is why Lance had to come
up with a CAP. If you don't think a freewheeling prop doesnt have a lot
of drag/lift, then you don't believe a gyrocopter can fly.
Jerry Liles wrote:
>
>No problem Herbert. I see where the confusion comes and understand your
>concern. I bet an engine out with the overrunnig clutch is a real
>sphincter tightener. The clutch for the 582 is an aftermarket item for
>the C Gearbox and it is a massive centrifugal clutch. Works great on
>the two stroke but it is different than the overrunning clutch on the NSI.
>Jerry Liles
>
>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>
>
>>
>>O.K. Jerry,
>>
>> My apologies, I am familiar with the overrunning clutch or one way clutch
that Tom Anderson has on his Series 5 with the NSI engine. You probably
referred to a friction clutch with spring type fly weights, similar to the
clutch on my chain saw and hopefully stronger and more substantial.
>>
>> Herbert Gottelt
>>
>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>
>>
>>Herbert
>>I installed the clutch on Tootie Mae during construction and have always
>>flown with it. The engine starts easily and idles smoother than any
>>other 582 I've seen. She will warm up at 2200rpms quite nicely except
>>in coldest winter, and, since the clutch doesn't engage until 2400rpm,
>>the prop is stopped. Hand propping is a real problem, that's why I have
>>the rope starter. It's also nice to idle the engine and not have to
>>stand on the brakes while doing preflight checks and getting clearance
>>
>>
>>from the tower. Little things, true, but they certainly are nice. The
>
>
>>biggest negative is the windmilling prop if the engine quits. The glide
>>does suffer, but, since I practice engine out landings every landing I'm
>>used to it and probably better prepared than the usual pilot.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Herbert R Gottelt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Jerry,
>>>if you had a prop clutch installed, I doubt that you could warm up your
engine without the prop turning. On the other hand, you are going to have a
heck of the time to hand prop it. :-)
>>>
>>>Herbert Gottelt,
>>>Mt. Prospect, IL
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles wrote:
>>>
>>>Very interesting report. Took some nerve to do it. What you've
>>>discovered is that the engine gives quite a bit of thrust at idle,
>>>enough to substantailly streatch a glide and reduce stall speed. Now
>>>you really know what to expect if your engine quits and you'll be better
>>>prepared for it. You also discovered that in air restarts aren't a
>>>given. Really increases the pucker factor, doesn't it?
>>>
>>>If you have theRotax C gear box you might consider installing the prop
>>>clutch. The good things about the clutch is every landing can be a
>>>practice for an engine out, you can warm the engine on the ground
>>>without the prop turning, the engine cranks easier, the engine will
>>>smoothly idle under 2000rpms. The bad points are; if the engine does
>>>quit prop drag is much increased due to the windmilling prop, and the
>>>prop will rotate on the ground in a strong wind casusing consternation
>>>in the tower who may think an unattended airplane has its engine running.
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Chenoweth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
This is an interesting subject.
Several years ago during one of the Idaho back contry trips, we were flying
over some pretty unfriendly ground - lots of trees and low mountains - and
needing something to occupy my mind, I started thinking of the in air
restart and was tempted to shut down to experience what Clint mentioned. I
didn't do it, wisely as I learned. Our next landing was at Cavanaugh Bay
and my heart was in my throat as we prepared to depart, I hit the starter
and nothing happened. A little corrosion on the spade terminal on the
starter solenoid essentially rendered the start circuit inop.
Clint's try over the airport showed some wise planning.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>
>
> Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
> if
> you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
>
> Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
> of
> gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have a
> 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
>
> It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some months
> ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine (including
> prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
> out
> of feather!
>
> Andrew
>
>
>>From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
>>
>>
>>
>>With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
>>condition.
>>Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked glide
>>at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get an
>>airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
>>times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start with
>>those high compression engines. Clint
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air start on 912ULS |
Yep - a prop spinning at idle should, in my experience, increase the
stall-speed. In multi-engine training, you don't always shut-down and
feather one motor for practice. Instead, you idle the engine (which causes a
lot of drag), and then increase the throttle slightly to simulate
zero-thrust (also, minimum of drag, such as when the prop is feathered).
As far as a best-glide speed is...In my Model 3, I find my Min-Sink airspeed
first. That gives me the lowest rate of descent, but not best-glide. Now
Best-glide is usually just a little faster, so if my min-sink speed is 50,
I'll add a few mph and fly at 55, a good rough speed.
In my primary training a couple years ago I flew a motorglider a few times.
With some manuevering, you can plot data points on a graph to make a Power
Required/Power Available curve. Then it's very easy to find the exact speeds
you're looking for (for your actual aircraft, not generic!). I'd have to dig
around my notes somewhat because I forget the exact way to get the data in
the aircraft...
Andrew
>From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth(at)gwi.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:33:58 -0500
>
>
>Andrew,
>One of the reasons I posted my first ever shut down was my surprise at the
>difference in stall speed between an idling and stopped engine. That
>hasn't
>seemed to have surprised anyone - at least no one has expressed surprise.
>Have you found the same difference in stall speeds in your shutdowns?
>Also,
>do you have best glide speeds for a stopped engine glide?
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:24 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
>
>
>
> >
> > Half Moon Bay?! Would that be in California? I've heard of the airport -
>if
> > you take-off and head west from it in FlightSimulator, you'll hit an
> > aircraft carrier in the Pacific...
> >
> > Anywho, I routinely shut-down in the air just because I like the feeling
>of
> > gliding...don't ever count on air-restart with these engines (and I have
>a
> > 582). It's starter or ropestart only!
> >
> > It was a surprise then when I started my Multi-Engine training some
>months
> > ago to find that after a complete shut-down of the right engine
>(including
> > prop-feather), the engine WILL airstart once you bring the props forward
>out
> > of feather!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > >From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Kitfox-List: Air start on 912ULS
> > >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:57:49 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >With all the talk about engine out, decided to try a dead engine
>condition.
> > >Up to 3500 ft over Half Moon Bay airport. Shut engine down, checked
>glide
> > >at 65 & 70 mph. At 70 was even 500 ft/min prop stopped. Could not get
>an
> > >airstart. Air speed up to 140, prop turned through compression about 3
> > >times, down to 1200 feet, started engine with starter. No air start
>with
> > >those high compression engines. Clint
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
February 02, 2006 - February 19, 2006
Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-cu