Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-fa
September 13, 2007 - October 01, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
Herbert sez:
>Why do all of the Kitfoxes that I've seen have the insulation
>blanket on the engine side of the firewall instead of the cockpit
>side of the firewall?
My Model IV had the insulation on the cabin side of the firewall, but
I did not use the factory-supplied blanket. Instead, I used a thick,
dense, fire-resistant foam that was glued to the firewall in sections
between the steel tubes. I don't know if it helped with noise much
because these little 'foxes are the noisiest things I've flown, but
it looked really nice and I liked it. :-)
Mike G. Kitfox List Moderator
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Static port location??? what works best??? |
the placement of the static port involves more than the supporting of the material
used. I understand that some effort was expended in locating the port on the
airframe of the Series IV where it would be least affected by changing air
pressures. The location selected is detailed in the plans for the static port
assembly from the factory and is located ahead of and below the leading edge
of the horizontal stabilizer.
the most harrowing flight I have had in my 'Fox was the day that I disconnect the
static line at the panel so that I was sensing cabin environment. The instruments
were not showing any of the numbers I was accustomed to and I finally
abandoned all referrence to instuments and landed by the seat of my pants. I
guess that I could have flown a complete new stall profile with the new numbers
but I wanted to get on the ground. "Get there syndrome", maybe so....
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: SUE MICHAELS <michaega(at)verizon.net>
Putting a static port in wing near pitot is no longer an option. I would kind of
like to put a threaded backing plate somewhere with hose attached and then screw
the port after fabric placement. What size hole is the port opening drilled
at if I must make my own? Would attaching the port to the back of the door
frame at the junction of the stringer work? That would be easy and easier to get
to at a later date, possible one on each side.
the placement of the static port involves more than the supporting of the
material used. I understand that some effort was expended in locating the port
on the airframe of the Series IV where it would be least affected by changing
air pressures. The location selected is detailed in the plans for the static
port assembly from the factory and is located ahead of and below the leading
edge of the horizontal stabilizer.
the most harrowing flight I have had in my 'Fox was the day that I disconnect
the static line at the panel so that I was sensing cabin environment.
The instruments were not showing any of the numbers I was accustomed to and
I finally abandoned all referrence to instuments and landed by the seat of my
pants. I guess that I could have flown a complete new stall profile with
the new numbers but I wanted to get on the ground. "Get there syndrome",
maybe so....
John Kerr
Putting a static port in wing near pitot is
no longer an option. I would kind of like to put a threaded backing plate somewhere
with hose attached and then screw the port after fabric placement. What
size hole is the port opening drilled at if I must make my own? Would attaching
the port to the back of the door frame at the junction of the stringer
work? That would be easy and easier to get to at a later date, possible one
on each side.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: (Off Topic) Two is company, three is ... |
| From: | "skyring" <kerryskyring(at)hotmail.com> |
Michel next time you're looking at Lars European kitfox site check out OE-AMJ.
It's the one I've been working on for the past four years. It will, I hope, soon
be flying off to some European fly-ins. Sooner or later we European Kitfoxers
have to get together for a big event. I'm just waiting on the mandatory test
hours to be flown off. Cheers. Kerry.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134258#134258
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Lowell back on deck |
Glad to see you are getting back on deck.
They say close only counts in horseshoes and atom bombs..... I'll bet you
have revised views on that one.
Good to have you back.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 912S Oil and Water cooling issues |
Thats strange. My problem is getting things warm enough. Model IV-1200 wi
th oil cooler. 1250 hours. Clint> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S Oil and Wat
er cooling issues> From: arholland(at)bigriver.net> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:
d by: "arholland" > > I have a Kitfox Lite Squared.
It is the same as the classic 4 except with a smooth cowl and is a tricycl
e. It has the GSC 3 blade prop. It has the 912S engine and has about 110 ho
urs. My CHT runs about 230 and my oil temp runs about 230. I was running th
e waterless coolant and have switched to Prestone Dex-cool. With the Dex-co
ol it runs a little cooler on the CHT but the oil temp is still high. Also
when the engine is at idle the oil pressure runs about 60psi, however when
I am at cruise the oil pressure fluctuates between about 40psi and 60psi. D
oes anyone have any ideas to get the cooling under control and what could b
e causing the oil pressure fluctuations?> > --------> Allen Holland> Munfor
d, TN> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/
==> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | 912S Oil and Water cooling issues |
Gauge or relief valve spring/piston seat???
Of course 230F is not very high. Fluctuation is a concern.
PW
===========================
> >
> > I have a Kitfox Lite Squared. It is the same as the classic 4
> except with a smooth cowl and is a tricycle. It has the GSC 3 blade
> prop. It has the 912S engine and has about 110 hours. My CHT runs
> about 230 and my oil temp runs about 230. I was running the
> waterless coolant and have switched to Prestone Dex-cool. With the
> Dex-cool it runs a little cooler on the CHT but the oil temp is
> still high. Also when the engine is at idle the oil pressure runs
> about 60psi, however when I am at cruise the oil pressure
> fluctuates between about 40psi and 60psi. Does anyone have any
> ideas to get the cooling under control and what could be causing
> the oil pressure fluctuations?
> >
> > --------
> > Allen Holland
> > Munford, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Clint,
I used some harrison Vg;s on the lower cowl mods i did and they contributed to
a 20F drop in coolant temps
http://www.cfisher.com/cowl.html
Last weekend I put some Vgs on my wings.
I have started a page here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
I put up a video of some flying with them on to be found there as well.
I placed the leading edge of VGs 4.625 inches back from leading edge as measured
through the chord not following the curvature of the top of the wing. This
puts the centre of the VG at exactly 10% of the chord.
So far favorable results, but nothing like I have read about the 8 mph stall speed
drops. Looks like about 2 mph drop in stall to about 36-37 mph clean. No
speed loss and if any less than 1 mph but no gain either.
Slow speed flight does seem a little more stable but I have never complained
or had any issues with slow speed flight on my IV. I have been reluctant to put
on the VGs as the Kitfox of mine has had such good performance.
I did do another mod that has added favorable results this week as week which was
correcting the exhaust form how Skystar had cut the 90% elbow and shortened
the actual header length. If definitely has added HP as RPM has increased at
idle, static and wide open throttle in flight by 200 to 300 rpm . I have now
re pitched and picked up some speed as well but will post data once done another
re pitch and some more flight data.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134365#134365
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
Glad to see you're back to the list.
Do you think the VGs on the lip of the cowl will help cooling without the
radiator scoop?
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:46 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
>
>
>
> Clint,
>
> I used some harrison Vg;s on the lower cowl mods i did and
> they contributed to a 20F drop in coolant temps
> http://www.cfisher.com/cowl.html
>
> Last weekend I put some Vgs on my wings.
> I have started a page here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
> I put up a video of some flying with them on to be found
> there as well.
> I placed the leading edge of VGs 4.625 inches back from
> leading edge as measured through the chord not following the
> curvature of the top of the wing. This puts the centre of
> the VG at exactly 10% of the chord.
>
> So far favorable results, but nothing like I have read about
> the 8 mph stall speed drops. Looks like about 2 mph drop in
> stall to about 36-37 mph clean. No speed loss and if any
> less than 1 mph but no gain either.
>
> Slow speed flight does seem a little more stable but I have
> never complained or had any issues with slow speed flight on
> my IV. I have been reluctant to put on the VGs as the Kitfox
> of mine has had such good performance.
>
> I did do another mod that has added favorable results this
> week as week which was correcting the exhaust form how
> Skystar had cut the 90% elbow and shortened the actual header
> length. If definitely has added HP as RPM has increased at
> idle, static and wide open throttle in flight by 200 to 300
> rpm . I have now re pitched and picked up some speed as
> well but will post data once done another re pitch and some
> more flight data.
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134365#134365
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
Dave can we see a straight down view of the installation showing the spacing
and angles between individual VGs?
Liked the video!... Beats the tar out of Flight Sim but the plane seems
strangely familiar.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:46 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
>
>
>
> Clint,
>
> I used some harrison Vg;s on the lower cowl mods i did and
> they contributed to a 20F drop in coolant temps
> http://www.cfisher.com/cowl.html
>
> Last weekend I put some Vgs on my wings.
> I have started a page here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
> I put up a video of some flying with them on to be found
> there as well.
> I placed the leading edge of VGs 4.625 inches back from
> leading edge as measured through the chord not following the
> curvature of the top of the wing. This puts the centre of
> the VG at exactly 10% of the chord.
>
> So far favorable results, but nothing like I have read about
> the 8 mph stall speed drops. Looks like about 2 mph drop in
> stall to about 36-37 mph clean. No speed loss and if any
> less than 1 mph but no gain either.
>
> Slow speed flight does seem a little more stable but I have
> never complained or had any issues with slow speed flight on
> my IV. I have been reluctant to put on the VGs as the Kitfox
> of mine has had such good performance.
>
> I did do another mod that has added favorable results this
> week as week which was correcting the exhaust form how
> Skystar had cut the 90% elbow and shortened the actual header
> length. If definitely has added HP as RPM has increased at
> idle, static and wide open throttle in flight by 200 to 300
> rpm . I have now re pitched and picked up some speed as
> well but will post data once done another re pitch and some
> more flight data.
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134365#134365
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Noel,
I am not sure but I think the rad scoop does help with cooling.
The same setup without the scoop? should be ok but i will have to remove to validate
for sure.
> Do you think the VGs on the lip of the cowl will help cooling without the
> radiator scoop?
>
> Noel
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134389#134389
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Noel, I cannot help you with a pic other than at http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html but you can see how the spacing changes
But I followed these directions http://stolspeed.com/content.php?id=27
from last outer rib for a about 3 feet 60mm spacing
Then rest of wing to windshield I spaced them 90 mm
> Dave can we see a straight down view of the installation showing the spacing
> and angles between individual VGs?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134395#134395
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
I installed my firewall blanket on the cabin side of the firewall,
after first cutting off the part that forms a pocket, into which the
firewall would have slid. I did this after talking with Frank at
Skystar. I cut holes where the pads are located, so that the material
would not be squeezed between the pads and the engine mount.
I agree with you about the padding eventually becoming soaked with
oil/whatever.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 12, 2007, at 9:29 AM, Herbert Doud wrote:
> Kitfoxers.................I gotta question.........
>
> With all the messages about proper and safe firewall transition,
> it got me ti thinking. (Dangerous!)
>
>
> I didn't build my Kitfox....Too dang old..........So I'm not too
> knowledgeable in the building process.
>
> Why do all of the Kitfoxes that I've seen have the insulation
> blanket on the engine side of the firewall instead of the cockpit
> side of the firewall? Every GA plane that I've owned or seen, the
> insulation is always on the cockpit side, which makes sense to
> me. On the engine side, it's exposed to engine fluids and
> eventually over time, it's possible for engine fluids to gather in
> the padding. That could pose a fire hazzard.
>
> There's probably a logical answer to my query, but I not going to
> tax what's left of my brain cells, trying to answer the question.
> I'll let someone else's brain cells work on this.
>
> Herbert Doud
> Kitfox IV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
As you know I don't have a scoop on my plane... Then again I haven't had
any cooling issues either. I'm just trying to keep options open. Is it
advisable to use the same rad for the 912 that I am using with the 582?
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 12:21 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
>
>
>
> Noel,
>
> I am not sure but I think the rad scoop does help with cooling.
> The same setup without the scoop? should be ok but i will
> have to remove to validate for sure.
>
>
> > Do you think the VGs on the lip of the cowl will help
> cooling without the
> > radiator scoop?
> >
> > Noel
>
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134389#134389
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Noel, I think the rad is the same one -- 4" x 20 " approx. but surely someone will
comment for sure to confirm.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134470#134470
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
We have been looking into this for sometime and finally got an answer
back... We are an OEM for Artex 406 mhz ELT's. There is a model now that
is a replacement for the AK-450 and the ACK models. Unfortunately the
remote switch in the panel is a little different so it will require a slight
mod to the opening for the remote switch.
As reported the response time is significantly better then the current
system. Fact is Doppler positioning allows the 121.5 signal tracked to
within approx 12 mile radius and the 406 signal in within 2 mile radius..
the new system also sends owner data to the satellite so searchers know who,
what and where.. I believe it also sends contact information.
Here is the bad news.. the current retail is $1148.00 plus S&H. This does
include everything needed.
Attached is the brochure.
Give us a shout if you're looking to upgrade or install the 406 system.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
8:59 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
There is 2 different radiators.. The original 582 was smaller. The 912 uses
a larger radiator.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
As you know I don't have a scoop on my plane... Then again I haven't had
any cooling issues either. I'm just trying to keep options open. Is it
advisable to use the same rad for the 912 that I am using with the 582?
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 12:21 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
>
>
> Noel,
>
> I am not sure but I think the rad scoop does help with cooling.
> The same setup without the scoop? should be ok but i will
> have to remove to validate for sure.
>
>
> > Do you think the VGs on the lip of the cowl will help
> cooling without the
> > radiator scoop?
> >
> > Noel
>
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134389#134389
>
>
8:59 AM
8:59 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
John:
What are the measurements on the 912 rad?
BTW TC says they won't bother with another inspection of my plane if I
buy
the engine mount from you.... Bet you didn't know you had friends in
"high"
places :-)
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:45 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: radiators
>
>
>
>
> There is 2 different radiators.. The original 582 was
> smaller. The 912 uses
> a larger radiator.
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Noel Loveys
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 2:59 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
>
>
> As you know I don't have a scoop on my plane... Then again I
> haven't had
> any cooling issues either. I'm just trying to keep options
> open. Is it
> advisable to use the same rad for the 912 that I am using
> with the 582?
>
>
> Noel
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 12:21 PM
> > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's
> >
> >
> >
> > Noel,
> >
> > I am not sure but I think the rad scoop does help with cooling.
> > The same setup without the scoop? should be ok but i will
> > have to remove to validate for sure.
> >
> >
> > > Do you think the VGs on the lip of the cowl will help
> > cooling without the
> > > radiator scoop?
> > >
> > > Noel
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> > Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> > http://www.cfisher.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134389#134389
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 8:59 AM
>
> 8:59 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
Noel sez:
>...Flying without headphones isn't uncomfortable either. It
>certainly isn't as loud as the C172 I trained in.
I don't know, Noel, perhaps your hearing was better back then. :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Airdale Wider Bungee Landing Gear |
Hi All:
Is any of you using the Airdale "Wider is Better" bungee landing gear on model
I thru IV Kitfox? My friend Noel is considering it for his Kitfox II. Would like
to get your feedback.
Thanks!
Jos Toro
ex Kitfox II/582 (still in love)
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marwynne Kuhn" <marwynne(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
Just a few comments about landing in the tree tops. I had an engine out
earlier this year and was forced to land in the trees. I got real lucky
and didn't get injured. I landed in the top of several pine trees and the
plane then nose dived straight down when the treetops broke. My main gear
wedged between to trees and slowed the descent dramatically. The wings
also absorbed the falling energy when they broke other tree limbs. My
engine came with in 6 inches of the ground. The plane never made contact
with ground.
I agree about having a light aircraft vs. a 172 or such. I don't know if I
would have been so lucky. Damage to the plane was two bent spars ,
covering on the wings and several places on the fuselage. I am glad I was
in my Kitfox rather than my Cessna 175. I don't believe that I would have
survived the fall in that much heavier a plane.
Just a few comments about the cause of the accident. The engine was a 912UL
with 300 hours. The rubber boot that holds the carbs failed. I had
changed the boot the previous annual and inspected it within the last month
before the accident. The rubber boot had approx 80 hours on it. The rubber
boot split about 2/3 the way around . The engine lost vacuum and
sputtered and stopped.. There is a solution to the problem , I wrote
Rotax and there is another company making these parts. I never got a
response from Rotax and the other manufacture showed no interest.
The solution for the problem is to have a KEVLAR ring inserted into the mold
when the rubber is injected.
Here is the reason this KEVLAR band would work.
The rubber boot cracks and separates , the engine starts running rough ,
but would continue to run.
You have high vibration at this time making the crack worse causing the
engine to run rougher. The KEVLAR would prevent the complete separation
of the rubber boot. Hope fully this would buy you enough time to return to
the airport safely.
I hope the above made since to you. I wish that I could make the
manufactures realize that the cost to insert the ring would be a safety
measure that would prevent a complete separation of the rubber boot. It
would really not make the part last longer , just prevent it from completely
failing like mine did.
Your comments would be appreciated. If it makes since ,you might want to
write ROTAX and see if more than one person complaint would entice them into
making this part safer.
> think that, if the forest is dense enough, a Kitfox would simply land on
> the top of the trees and rescue would come with a fire brigade ladder. I
> am not sure but I still feel I stand a better chance to survive a aircraft
> crash landing if it is a very light one. After all, a 30 feet wide, 900
> pounds heavy object moving at 40 MPH shouldn't need much to come to a
> stop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jimmie Blackwell" <JimmieBlackwell(at)austin.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
Great report and excellent idea on the boots. I am going to write Rotax.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marwynne Kuhn" <marwynne(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Lowell Fitt Accident
>
> Just a few comments about landing in the tree tops. I had an engine out
> earlier this year and was forced to land in the trees. I got real lucky
> and didn't get injured. I landed in the top of several pine trees and the
> plane then nose dived straight down when the treetops broke. My main gear
> wedged between to trees and slowed the descent dramatically. The wings
> also absorbed the falling energy when they broke other tree limbs. My
> engine came with in 6 inches of the ground. The plane never made contact
> with ground.
>
> I agree about having a light aircraft vs. a 172 or such. I don't know if
> I would have been so lucky. Damage to the plane was two bent spars ,
> covering on the wings and several places on the fuselage. I am glad I
> was in my Kitfox rather than my Cessna 175. I don't believe that I would
> have survived the fall in that much heavier a plane.
>
>
> Just a few comments about the cause of the accident. The engine was a
> 912UL with 300 hours. The rubber boot that holds the carbs failed. I
> had changed the boot the previous annual and inspected it within the last
> month before the accident. The rubber boot had approx 80 hours on it.
> The rubber boot split about 2/3 the way around . The engine lost vacuum
> and sputtered and stopped.. There is a solution to the problem , I
> wrote Rotax and there is another company making these parts. I never got a
> response from Rotax and the other manufacture showed no interest.
>
> The solution for the problem is to have a KEVLAR ring inserted into the
> mold when the rubber is injected.
>
> Here is the reason this KEVLAR band would work.
>
> The rubber boot cracks and separates , the engine starts running rough ,
> but would continue to run.
> You have high vibration at this time making the crack worse causing the
> engine to run rougher. The KEVLAR would prevent the complete
> separation of the rubber boot. Hope fully this would buy you enough time
> to return to the airport safely.
>
> I hope the above made since to you. I wish that I could make the
> manufactures realize that the cost to insert the ring would be a safety
> measure that would prevent a complete separation of the rubber boot. It
> would really not make the part last longer , just prevent it from
> completely failing like mine did.
>
> Your comments would be appreciated. If it makes since ,you might want to
> write ROTAX and see if more than one person complaint would entice them
> into making this part safer.
>
>
>> think that, if the forest is dense enough, a Kitfox would simply land on
>> the top of the trees and rescue would come with a fire brigade ladder. I
>> am not sure but I still feel I stand a better chance to survive a
>> aircraft crash landing if it is a very light one. After all, a 30 feet
>> wide, 900 pounds heavy object moving at 40 MPH shouldn't need much to
>> come to a stop.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "clemwehner" <clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
I have an idea. Why couldn't a rubber cover be put over the boot, like
piece of rubber inner tube? It could be sealed on the carb side with
silicone sealant or something, pulled over the carb boot, then sealed on
the engine side. A safety wire wrap or zip ties might could be used to
secure it on the ends and ensure a tight fit into the sealant. That way
if the boot split, the cover would keep air from leaking in.
Just a thought,
Clem Wehner
Lawton, OK
KFIV-912
-----Original Message-----
"The rubber boot split about 2/3 the way around . The engine lost
vacuum and
sputtered and stopped."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Cozik" <Kcozik(at)cablespeed.com> |
Hello everyone,
Just a quick note to let you know Kitfox series 6, N262SC took to the
air at about 8 am this morning for its maiden flight. It flew great
with no changes needed in rigging! More later.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
Rotax 914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
Attending a flight safety conference in Germany, last year, we were told
> that light aircraft should rather try to land on tree tops than attempt to
> make a sharp manoeuvre to reach an open field, at the risk of not being
> able to do it and end in a wall or another hard surface. Personally, I
> think that, if the forest is dense enough, a Kitfox would simply land on
> the top of the trees and rescue would come with a fire brigade ladder. I
> am not sure but I still feel I stand a better chance to survive a aircraft
> crash landing if it is a very light one. After all, a 30 feet wide, 900
> pounds heavy object moving at 40 MPH shouldn't need much to come to a
> stop.
Michel,
I have an example of this in my shop. About 25 years ago a pilot had fuel
contamination and the engine quit in a Funk B-85 C. He ended up about 100' up
in the Cedar tree he landed on. He was rescued by Hook & Ladder truck from
Fire Dept. More damage was done to aircraft removing from tree with a huge
crane than was done in landing there. I'm slowly restoring that plane. Still
has cable marks on door post aluminum cover where the cable wrapped around
to remove. Windshield, all windows & airframe not damaged except for wings &
doors which were totaled by time aircraft was removed from tree. Two of my
friends heard engine quit and ran to where they heard the noise of crash,
couldn't find plane till pilot yelled at them from above!
Elbie Mendenhall,
Restoring the "Cedar Tree Funk" N-77705
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W Duke <n981ms(at)yahoo.com> |
congrats. Have fun.
Kevin Cozik wrote: Hello everyone,
Just a quick note to let you know Kitfox series 6, N262SC took to the air at
about 8 am this morning for its maiden flight. It flew great with no changes
needed in rigging! More later.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
Rotax 914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing Michigan
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SOURDOSTAN(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident --Subject Change-Carb Boots |
I just received two new carb boots for my 912ul and I think Lockwood said
they do have a KEVLAR reinforcement. They appear much stiffer, as well.
Stan Specht
Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine" (1250 hrs)
Denver, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
Congrats Kevin !!!
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Cozik
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: It flys!
Hello everyone,
Just a quick note to let you know Kitfox series 6, N262SC took to the air at
about 8 am this morning for its maiden flight. It flew great with no
changes needed in rigging! More later.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
Rotax 914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing Michigan
8:59 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack L Bell <jack(at)comconn.com> |
| Subject: | Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
It finally happened- I broke my tailwheel spring
after a landing. Not during the landing, but
after. If you could see the condition of the
runway I generally use, you'd understand.
Anyway- no real damage, other than the fabric on
the rudder having numerous holes punched by the
dragging tailwheel. And, of course the need for
a new spring.
Which, as they say, is the point. This occurred
while landing an Avid MK IV. They have that
nicely rounded rudder, and the "round" at the
bottom keeps the rudder off the asphalt if
the spring breaks. I looked at the kitfox I
parked next to it, and noted that if *that*
spring broke, I'd trash the rudder. And, since
I had the avid rudder in hand, I held it up and...
Did you know that, with the exception of the rudder
horns being higher, and the top of the rudder sitting
maybe 1 inch higher, that the rounded rudder will fit
right onto the kitfox? The hinge tabs are in *exactly*
the correct place. A new stop, or moving the horns,
adding an inch to the top of the verticle stabilizer,
and suddenly you have a more effective, and less easily
damaged rudder.
$.02
Jack
Kitfox I Rotax 582 GSC prop
Avid Mk IV jabiru 2200 prince ptip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airdale Wider Bungee Landing Gear |
| From: | "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com> |
The wider gear works great . I changed mine after experiencing a gear leg failure
on the stock gear . I love the wider stance and it is also a little bit taller
. With the big tundra tires on it it looks fantastic . If you want pics let
me know and i will send to your email.
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
WHEELS NorthAire Floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134560#134560
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Carb rubber boots |
| From: | "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com> |
The JBM rubber boots are far superior to the rotax boots . We just changed out
a set of rotax boots that went bad in less than a year . Will only fly with JBM
boots from now on . Hope fully will not have to changed them for many years
but will look at them several times a year and inspect inside and out.
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
WHEELS NorthAire Floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134561#134561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "barryhuston" <barryhuston(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | --Subject:: Change-Carb Boots - 912 UL |
Stan & Marwynne & LIST
CARB BOOTS -- 912UL
Could not locate in Lockwood Catalog --- Page Number or PART # ??
ALSO, Is a there a recommendation on how frequently these should be
changed. ??
Barry Huston
Model IV - 1200 Tri-Gear
Lake Ossipee, NH
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SOURDOSTAN(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Lowell Fitt Accident --Subject Change-Carb
Boots
I just received two new carb boots for my 912ul and I think Lockwood said
they do have a KEVLAR reinforcement. They appear much stiffer, as well.
Stan Specht
Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine" (1250 hrs)
Denver, Colorado
_____
See what'set="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "barryhuston" <barryhuston(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Carb rubber boots |
John
Did not see this before I just sent my previous request " Change Carb Boots
- 912UL"
Could you provide INFO on purchasing JBM Boots
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax Carb rubber boots
The JBM rubber boots are far superior to the rotax boots . We just changed
out a set of rotax boots that went bad in less than a year . Will only fly
with JBM boots from now on . Hope fully will not have to changed them for
many years but will look at them several times a year and inspect inside and
out.
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
WHEELS NorthAire Floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134561#134561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marwynne Kuhn" <marwynne(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Carb rubber boots |
I inspected my boots several months before I had my engine failure. Pull
on them hard and see if you can get them to tear. If they had some
KEVLAR in them they would be much better. If they leak they only cause the
engine to run rough. It is when they tear as mine did that you have a
total power outage. I would be willing to pay extra for the material in
them.
Good Luck
----- Original Message -----
From: "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax Carb rubber boots
>
> The JBM rubber boots are far superior to the rotax boots . We just changed
> out a set of rotax boots that went bad in less than a year . Will only fly
> with JBM boots from now on . Hope fully will not have to changed them for
> many years but will look at them several times a year and inspect inside
> and out.
>
> --------
> FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
> WHEELS NorthAire Floats
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134561#134561
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert Doud" <hdoud(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Bunches of stuff |
Many thanks to all of you Kitfoxers who responded either to me directly
or to the list concerning my question as to why we Kitfoxers put the
firewall blanket on the engine side, instead of on the cabin side as do
GA aircraft manufacturers. A large number of builders who responded,
have eiher done away with the blanket or have installed it on the cabin
side of the firewall, which makes sense to this old fart.
Now to another subject. I guess everyone who messes with car and
airplane engines have heard of Marvel Mystery Oil. I'v used it off
and on for 50 years.
I bought an ATV sometime back and through short trip useage and many
starts, the spark plug was carboning up and fouling. Most of my use
with Marvel, was in the engine oil, for break-ins and hard useage. On
the container Marvel is also suggested for the fuel, for upper end lube
and cleaning of the cylinders.
I tried it on the ATV and for a coupla weeks, using the recommended
amount in the fuel and it worked super. The plug cleaned up, starts
were easier and it idled better........But, I started getting a gasoline
puddle under my ATV, coming out of the carb overflow.
Bunches of work, but I pulled the carb, looked at the float needle and
it had turned gummy and was leaking. So I installed a new needle and
put the works back together. A week or so later, I started getting a
large fuel puddle under the ATV again.
Earlier, it had worked so well, before getting fuel leakage under the
ATV, I also had put in in my gas for the 582 on my Kitfox. Worked
great there too, keeping clean plugs and smooth idling.
I hadn't had the plane out in a coupla weeks and when I saw the gas
puddle under the ATV, I hobbled out to the folded wing, mini hanger,
checked the carbs for leaking and sure enough, there was a large gas
puddle on the floor under the engine. I was mixing the plane gas with
the premix oil and adding the suggested amount of Marvel Mystery Oil.
I pulled both carbs and checked the rubber tips on the float needles and
they were deteriorating.
Not being a real fast thinker, I guess, I cussed to myself, about the
poor quality of tips on the needle valves and how things just weren't up
to the standards of earlier years.
I replaced the Bing needles, and made no changes in the Marvel oil as it
was sure working good in cleaning up the combustion chanmbers.
A week or so later, I had another gas puddle under the plane and the ATV
was still leaking gas. Finally the gray mater lit up and I drained the
fuel tanks on both the plane and the ATV and again, replaced the float
needles on the 2 engines. After I'd used up all the bad words that I
learned from all the bad people I knew, I hadda start making up a whole
lot of new ones, that I'd like to pass on.... But I can't spell 'em.
Any way, I changed the 582 over to oil injection and am using the Marvel
in the oil injection system and quit putting Marvel in the ATV. It's
been several months now and no more fuel leakage from either engine.
It seems that the Marvel is a good product, if it not used where it can
come in contact with the rubber tips they are now using on the float
needles. (they all used to be brass tips) Marvel sure keeps things
cleaned up and seems to work great in the 4 cycle oil engines, But
beware of mixing with gasoline in the fuel tanks.
My ATV still fouls plugs, so I buy them buy the dozen. If anyon's
interested in some old fouled plugs to play with, I have some real
cheap.
Herbert Doud
Kitfox IV/582
New Braunfels, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bunches of stuff |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
How many hours do you get out of your 582 plugs by using Marvel oil ?
how do you know your 582 is clean inside ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134578#134578
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Very good,
should pop off the water quickly with the 914 and the winds today :)
Get us some videos before the ice comes -- calling for near freezing next few
nights here
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134579#134579
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
That's great Kevin! I have seen pics of his Fox and it is got to be one of the
best looking I have seen! If you get a chance, post some of your preliminary
performance numbers as I am sure many would be interested. As you know, I am
especially interested seeing that I am working on a 7 and installing the 914.
By the way, I plan on giving you a call one of these nights to discuss your
engine and avionics installation. Again, way to go on the maiden flight!
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134609#134609
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge reinforcement tubes - recommended. |
| From: | "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> |
Dave,
I have not seen the recommendation for the tube but it seems like a great idea!
I keep looking at my trailing edge and thinking that it would only take a misplaced
elbow or hand to bend it any direction. I will make the mod using your
tube dimensions supplied.
About the Hysol...I have been using the 50 ml cartridges for years now building
model jets and the Kitfox and have never had a problem with the mixing nozzles
even when I was working in a 40 degree garage in the winter (I now have a climate
controlled shop to work in). The nozzles I use I get from RSHughes and
they are square with a green mixer.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134612#134612
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airdale Wider Bungee Landing Gear |
| From: | "crazyivan" <dmivezic(at)yahoo.com> |
Two questions:
-Is the wider landing gear from Airdale a direct fit to the Kitfox 4?
-What is the cost?
Thanks
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134621#134621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
On Sep 15, 2007, at 9:12 PM, Jack L Bell wrote:
> It finally happened- I broke my tailwheel spring
> after a landing.
I did the same thing last year, Jack. My single blade tailwheel spring
gave up after about 950 landings. It was on asphalt and the plane went
in a 270 degrees ground loop. Luckily the speed was so low that it went
well. I have now two blades on my tailwheel spring.
I see your point with the Avid rudder that is more curved and doesn't
rest on the ground in the event of the lost of the tailwheel. I guess
the Kitfox is more squared because Denney and later, Skystar, tried to
increase as much as possible the rudder authority with surface.
Anyway, I also needed some repair to the rudder as it had been shaved
by the asphalt. I repaired it with glassfiber, epoxy, a piece of fabric
and paint. It is not a structural part of the aircraft so I guess it
should be good enough.
Geir-Olav, if you read this: Remember to add a second blade to your
tailwheel spring on your model IV!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?= <geir_olav(at)c2i.net> |
| Subject: | Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
Geir-Olav, if you read this: Remember to add a second blade to your
tailwheel spring on your model IV!
I ordered a new spring from john, a few days back. Better to be safe
than sorry.
Geir Olav ien
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] P vegne av Michel
Verheughe
Sendt: 16. september 2007 09:52
Til: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Emne: Re: Kitfox-List: Broken tailwheel spring- revelation
On Sep 15, 2007, at 9:12 PM, Jack L Bell wrote:
> It finally happened- I broke my tailwheel spring
> after a landing.
I did the same thing last year, Jack. My single blade tailwheel spring
gave up after about 950 landings. It was on asphalt and the plane went
in a 270 degrees ground loop. Luckily the speed was so low that it went
well. I have now two blades on my tailwheel spring.
I see your point with the Avid rudder that is more curved and doesn't
rest on the ground in the event of the lost of the tailwheel. I guess
the Kitfox is more squared because Denney and later, Skystar, tried to
increase as much as possible the rudder authority with surface.
Anyway, I also needed some repair to the rudder as it had been shaved
by the asphalt. I repaired it with glassfiber, epoxy, a piece of fabric
and paint. It is not a structural part of the aircraft so I guess it
should be good enough.
Geir-Olav, if you read this: Remember to add a second blade to your
tailwheel spring on your model IV!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
All,
I once attended a forum where a military officer talked about surviving
crashes. He was prompted to talk more about this after surviving a
crash in a F-14 (?) due to complete engine failure. The best part was
that it was right after takeoff, at night, and in a mountain range! Oh
yeah, the best part, they went in at 150 knots! It was a very
interesting forum, and I learned a lot about crash survivability from
what he had to say.
Ironically, one of the things discussed was the dispute about whether to
try and land a light airplane in the tree tops or not. According to him
(and a short video clip from Bob Hoover on the same subject), they both
said NOT to land in the tree tops. Rather, fly as far into the crash as
possible. Meaning, maintain as much control of the direction of the
aircraft as long as possible. They said that trying to land in the tree
tops generally indicates stalling just above the tree tops. But doing
so will limit your directional control. So if the airplane doesn't land
softly in the tree tops like you thought it would, you just might hit a
3 foot oak tree trunk head on instead of that nice soft umbrella you
were aiming for. Plus, even if you could land in the umbrella, it is
very likely no one will find you there. And if you are injured, it's
more likely you will bleed to death before anyone can get to you. AND,
if no one saw you go into the tree tops, and you can't wait any longer
for fear of dying of injuries, exposure or thirst, you are just as dead
if you decide to try and climb down, and fall from a 70 foot tall tree.
Not many of us are all that good at climbing (down) trees, especially if
injured.
All that said, if I had NO choice I would put down in the umbrella of
trees. But it would be one of my very last choices. I personally have
had 5 engine failures in airplanes, 3 on takeoff. And I am here to
write about them mostly because I (instictively more than anything else)
flew the airplane to the ground in a controlled glide. And yes, there
were large obstacles I could have hit during those emergency off airport
landings. But because I was able to maintain aircraft directional
control, I was able to avoid hitting any of them. So I am a firm
believer in "Fly The Airplane" as far into the crash as possible.
But that's just my opinion. I do realize that every situation isn't the
same and sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. However,
I'm a firm believer if you just focus all of your attention on "flying
the airplane", you will have the highest chance of survivability.
The ultralight group has a famous saying I like; "You Hav'ta Afta" .
Which means "you have to always fly the airplane". I think that says it
all, and is the best advice any of us can follow.
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912 ul amphib
ps - I have a wrecked airplane sitting in my hangar that landed in
treetops in a stalled attitude. It now has a 10 inch hole between the
rudder pedals in the firewall where a large branch came into the
cockpit, just missing the pilot. Had it been inches one way or another,
I'd guess it would have been fatal. In this case, after he hit the tops
of the trees it fell tail first backwards, landing against a large tree
trunk. Pilot walked away with only minor injuries. But I think someone
was looking out for this guy that day...
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Landing in Treetops
Attending a flight safety conference in Germany, last year, we were
told
> that light aircraft should rather try to land on tree tops than
attempt to
> make a sharp manoeuvre to reach an open field, at the risk of not
being
> able to do it and end in a wall or another hard surface. Personally,
I
> think that, if the forest is dense enough, a Kitfox would simply
land on
> the top of the trees and rescue would come with a fire brigade
ladder. I
> am not sure but I still feel I stand a better chance to survive a
aircraft
> crash landing if it is a very light one. After all, a 30 feet wide,
900
> pounds heavy object moving at 40 MPH shouldn't need much to come to
a
> stop.
Michel,
I have an example of this in my shop. About 25 years ago a pilot had
fuel contamination and the engine quit in a Funk B-85 C. He ended up
about 100' up in the Cedar tree he landed on. He was rescued by Hook &
Ladder truck from Fire Dept. More damage was done to aircraft removing
from tree with a huge crane than was done in landing there. I'm slowly
restoring that plane. Still has cable marks on door post aluminum cover
where the cable wrapped around to remove. Windshield, all windows &
airframe not damaged except for wings & doors which were totaled by time
aircraft was removed from tree. Two of my friends heard engine quit and
ran to where they heard the noise of crash, couldn't find plane till
pilot yelled at them from above!
Elbie Mendenhall,
Restoring the "Cedar Tree Funk" N-77705
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Make AOL Your Homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Light-Sport Pilots license |
I have had an FAA person mention moving the switch on an IVO prop electric
prop so it was accessible only from the ground as being legit under the LSA
rules. But that was somewhat a tongue in cheek response to me asking about
a particular friends airplane. In other words, you may and you may not get
away with that.
I believe the regs state that if ever the plane is equipped with an inflight
prop, it will remove it from Light Sport eligibility. So what you need to do
is check to see if the airplane was certified with an inflight prop, and if
it's written anywhere in the logs or the airworthiness or operating
limitation paperwork. If not, I doubt putting a ground adjustable prop on
it (whatever you want to call a ground adjustable prop) will be a problem.
BUT according to the rules, technically the aircraft is no longer eligible
for Light Sport status if it ever has had an in flight adjustable prop on
it. (fwiw - I think that is stupid, but it is the rule...)
Out of respect for all the FAA has granted us under Sport Pilot, as a group
I think we should try not to "push" the LSA limits by admitting to moving
switches, etc. That could sacrifice the credibility we have as sport pilots
to the FAA. If you really want an inflight prop, just get a private pilot
license. Or, get everyone together to start a letter writing campaign to
request the FAA allow in flight props under light sport rules. I perceive
that if enough people ask for reasonable changes in the rule, the FAA will
actually listen and possibly change them. After all, that's how the Light
Sport Aircraft and Pilot rule got this far.
Just my two cents worth...
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Light-Sport Pilots license
> dcsfoto wrote:
>> the FAA has been ask and agrees that putting the switch in a location
>> that can only be reached on the ground is ok
>>
>> David
>
> I would be interested in seeing a source for that.
>
> The sticking point is in 14 CFR Part 1.1, where it says "Light-sport
> aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that,
> since its original certification, has continued to meet the
> following:...(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered
> aircraft other than a powered glider."
>
> It seems pretty clear that the restriction is permanent, even if an
> aircraft is later physically brought back into LSA compliance. However,
> the phrase "since its original certification" seems to indicate that this
> restriction may be intended for certified aircraft only. I would love to
> see an authoritative (FAA) source state emphatically whether or not this
> permanent restriction also applies to amateur built experimentals. There
> are many differing opinions about this on the internet, but I have yet to
> see anything from the FAA that states the case in no uncertain terms.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134202#134202
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Corner <jcorner(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bunches of stuff |
Herbert.... I am thinking of adding Marvel to my 582 operation, are
you using straight Marvel in the injection system or are you adding
it to your regular injection oil? If so in what percentage?
Jim
Kitfox 2, 582,
1100+ hrs
Calgary AB
On 15-Sep-07, at 3:59 PM, Herbert Doud wrote:
>
> Any way, I changed the 582 over to oil injection and am using the
> Marvel in the oil injection system and quit putting Marvel in the
> ATV. It's been several months now and no more fuel leakage from
> either engine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust parts 582 |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Simple mod has turned successful so far .
Added in some the the header that was chopped off by Skystar.
Net results were 200 - 300 RPM increase at idle, static and wide open in level
flight. I can only assume that a few extra ponies have been had.
I have no re-pitched and at the same fuel flow as pre exhaust change I am cruise
3 to 5 mph faster. I just changed props from my seaplane prop ( warp 3 blade
68" wide tip ) to a IVO medium 72" 2 blade. Both seem to be about the same
92 to 93 @ 6000 rpm at 20 liters/hour and this is with the King Fox 21 "
x 12 tires that cost about 2 to 3 mph. Surely will wheel pants and smaller
tires the 582 fox would see over 100 mph. Temps 54F now when i last flew and
was seeing 1200 fpm climb on average.
So if you want the extra HP this is a easy mod to do . I am not done yet either
as I am going to try to lengthen it further but I think the change will be
minimal. But will not know till I try it.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134656#134656
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bunches of stuff |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Can i ask why would you want to add it ?
I run easy past 300 hours using Bombardier XPS mineral oil and have no reason to
need it so far ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134659#134659
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Cozik" <Kcozik(at)cablespeed.com> |
Hi all,
Just came back from my second flight in which I had planned to do a
couple stalls and verify the limited information I had gathered the day
before. Today's flight was much more relaxed compared the the initial
flight 1 day earlier. The airplane is a joy to fly and I'm really looking
forward to these next flight tests.
I have a 68" IVO in-flight adjustable prop which I set to 5500 static
rpms before takeoff which gave me about 5700 in the climb. These first 2
takeoffs I climbed out at 70-75 mph and 650 fpm. I have not retracted the
gear yet so it should be capable of a little better climb. CG was about
10.8 and weight was around 1400 lbs. It is cool here today with morning
temps near 40f. I need to do something with the oil temps since I was
unable to get them above 180 even in the climb. I leveled off about 3500
msl with 5000 rpms and 31" MP (75 %) and was showing 82 mph +/-. 65 % was
only 3 mph slower so the plane really needs to be cleaned up. (Gear still
has not been retracted).
I'll post more later but overall the flight characteristics are great and
the landings have been 2 of my best. I notch of flaps on both landings only
because the nose seemed too high without.
Kevin Cozik
series 6-7
rotax 914 turbo
Czech floats
Lansing Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: It flys!
>
> That's great Kevin! I have seen pics of his Fox and it is got to be one
> of the best looking I have seen! If you get a chance, post some of your
> preliminary performance numbers as I am sure many would be interested. As
> you know, I am especially interested seeing that I am working on a 7 and
> installing the 914. By the way, I plan on giving you a call one of these
> nights to discuss your engine and avionics installation. Again, way to go
> on the maiden flight!
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134609#134609
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeff puls" <pulsair(at)mindspring.com> |
Pictures! Pictures! Jeff Classic IV
----- Original Message -----
From: W Duke
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: It flys!
congrats. Have fun.
Kevin Cozik wrote:
Hello everyone,
Just a quick note to let you know Kitfox series 6, N262SC took to
the air at about 8 am this morning for its maiden flight. It flew great
with no changes needed in rigging! More later.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6-7
Rotax 914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
Way to go Kevin!! Keep sending the stats and pictures when you get em. Always great
to hear of another birth.
Dan B Mesa, AZ
KF-IV 912s Building
http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Build1.html
Kevin Cozik wrote:
Hi all,
Just came back from my second flight in which I had planned to do a
couple stalls and verify the limited information I had gathered the day
before. Today's flight was much more relaxed compared the the initial
flight 1 day earlier. The airplane is a joy to fly and I'm really looking
forward to these next flight tests.
I have a 68" IVO in-flight adjustable prop which I set to 5500 static
rpms before takeoff which gave me about 5700 in the climb. These first 2
takeoffs I climbed out at 70-75 mph and 650 fpm. I have not retracted the
gear yet so it should be capable of a little better climb. CG was about
10.8 and weight was around 1400 lbs. It is cool here today with morning
temps near 40f. I need to do something with the oil temps since I was
unable to get them above 180 even in the climb. I leveled off about 3500
msl with 5000 rpms and 31" MP (75 %) and was showing 82 mph +/-. 65 % was
only 3 mph slower so the plane really needs to be cleaned up. (Gear still
has not been retracted).
I'll post more later but overall the flight characteristics are great and
the landings have been 2 of my best. I notch of flaps on both landings only
because the nose seemed too high without.
Kevin Cozik
series 6-7
rotax 914 turbo
Czech floats
Lansing Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh"
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: It flys!
>
> That's great Kevin! I have seen pics of his Fox and it is got to be one
> of the best looking I have seen! If you get a chance, post some of your
> preliminary performance numbers as I am sure many would be interested. As
> you know, I am especially interested seeing that I am working on a 7 and
> installing the 914. By the way, I plan on giving you a call one of these
> nights to discuss your engine and avionics installation. Again, way to go
> on the maiden flight!
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134609#134609
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Michel,
Not so, The tailwheel will be bouncing around and likely go through your rudder.
Ask me how i know
I have 3 leafs on mine now and hopefully they will have a good long life. .
> But you've got a good point there, if I am to break my main leaf now,
> the plane will rest on the 'helper' and the rudder will be safe.
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134714#134714
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
Congrats Kevin! I know it was a long haul on that project, but it sounds
like all your hard work is paying off now.
Keep us posted on future results and specs. And yes, pictures!!!
Especially once you start doing your water work! I'm very curious how those
1650 floats work out (I'm in the process of building production prototype
1350 and 1500 amphibs for our planes, and am gathering all good info I can
lay my hands on regarding float performance and mods).
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Cozik" <Kcozik(at)cablespeed.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: It flys!
>
> Hi all,
> Just came back from my second flight in which I had planned to do a
> couple stalls and verify the limited information I had gathered the day
> before. Today's flight was much more relaxed compared the the initial
> flight 1 day earlier. The airplane is a joy to fly and I'm really looking
> forward to these next flight tests.
> I have a 68" IVO in-flight adjustable prop which I set to 5500 static
> rpms before takeoff which gave me about 5700 in the climb. These first 2
> takeoffs I climbed out at 70-75 mph and 650 fpm. I have not retracted the
> gear yet so it should be capable of a little better climb. CG was about
> 10.8 and weight was around 1400 lbs. It is cool here today with morning
> temps near 40f. I need to do something with the oil temps since I was
> unable to get them above 180 even in the climb. I leveled off about 3500
> msl with 5000 rpms and 31" MP (75 %) and was showing 82 mph +/-. 65 %
> was only 3 mph slower so the plane really needs to be cleaned up. (Gear
> still has not been retracted).
> I'll post more later but overall the flight characteristics are great
> and the landings have been 2 of my best. I notch of flaps on both
> landings only because the nose seemed too high without.
> Kevin Cozik
> series 6-7
> rotax 914 turbo
> Czech floats
> Lansing Michigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:27 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: It flys!
>
>
>>
>> That's great Kevin! I have seen pics of his Fox and it is got to be one
>> of the best looking I have seen! If you get a chance, post some of your
>> preliminary performance numbers as I am sure many would be interested.
>> As you know, I am especially interested seeing that I am working on a 7
>> and installing the 914. By the way, I plan on giving you a call one of
>> these nights to discuss your engine and avionics installation. Again,
>> way to go on the maiden flight!
>>
>> --------
>> Darin Hawkes
>> Series 7 (under Construction)
>> 914 Turbo
>> Ogden, Utah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134609#134609
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Shiple <fredshiple(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Thanks for the report, Kevin and congratulations!
Fred Shiple
Series 6
Bilmar amphibs
Toledo OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dwight purdy <dpurdy(at)comteck.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust parts 582 |
Did you leave the elbow bend tight as modified by Kitfox? How about a
picture? I would love a few more ponies.
Dwight Purdy
Model ll (503)
>
>Simple mod has turned successful so far .
>Added in some the the header that was chopped off by Skystar.
>
>Net results were 200 - 300 RPM increase at idle, static and wide open in
>level flight. I can only assume that a few extra ponies have been had.
>
>I have no re-pitched and at the same fuel flow as pre exhaust change I am
>cruise 3 to 5 mph faster. I just changed props from my seaplane prop (
>warp 3 blade 68" wide tip ) to a IVO medium 72" 2 blade. Both seem to be
>about the same 92 to 93 @ 6000 rpm at 20 liters/hour and this is with
>the King Fox 21 " x 12 tires that cost about 2 to 3 mph. Surely will
>wheel pants and smaller tires the 582 fox would see over 100
>mph. Temps 54F now when i last flew and was seeing 1200 fpm climb on
>average.
>
>So if you want the extra HP this is a easy mod to do . I am not done
>yet either as I am going to try to lengthen it further but I think the
>change will be minimal. But will not know till I try it.
>
>--------
>Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
>Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
>http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134656#134656
>
>
>--
>9/15/2007 7:54 PM
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert Doud" <hdoud(at)satx.rr.com> |
Dave:
Plugs were running clean and without carbon at 50 hours. Gap was still
at 18 thousands. Changed them anyway. Using NGK BR8ES plugs.
So far as the combustion chamber being as clean as the plugs, .....I
dunno...I have a 582 bluehead with about 175 hours and haven't felt the
need to tear it down yet. Running smooth at cruise and idles smooth.
Just guessing, at this point, but hope that the chamber and rings are as
clean as the plugs. On my old 582 gray head, the plugs pretty well
matched the condition of the combustion chamber.
Herbert Doud
Kitfox IV/582
New Braunfels, Tx
*************************
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bunches of stuff
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
How many hours do you get out of your 582 plugs by using Marvel oil ?
how do you know your 582 is clean inside ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Fultz" <andynfultz(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Bunches of stuff |
If the Mystery Oil is causing damage to the needle tips, I can't help but
wonder what it's doing to the inside of your fuel lines and or oil injection
lines?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herbert Doud
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:59 PM
To: Kitfox-List Digest Server
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
Many thanks to all of you Kitfoxers who responded either to me directly or
to the list concerning my question as to why we Kitfoxers put the firewall
blanket on the engine side, instead of on the cabin side as do GA aircraft
manufacturers. A large number of builders who responded, have eiher done
away with the blanket or have installed it on the cabin side of the
firewall, which makes sense to this old fart.
Now to another subject. I guess everyone who messes with car and
airplane engines have heard of Marvel Mystery Oil. I'v used it off and on
for 50 years.
I bought an ATV sometime back and through short trip useage and many
starts, the spark plug was carboning up and fouling. Most of my use with
Marvel, was in the engine oil, for break-ins and hard useage. On the
container Marvel is also suggested for the fuel, for upper end lube and
cleaning of the cylinders.
I tried it on the ATV and for a coupla weeks, using the recommended amount
in the fuel and it worked super. The plug cleaned up, starts were easier
and it idled better........But, I started getting a gasoline puddle under my
ATV, coming out of the carb overflow.
Bunches of work, but I pulled the carb, looked at the float needle and it
had turned gummy and was leaking. So I installed a new needle and put the
works back together. A week or so later, I started getting a large fuel
puddle under the ATV again.
Earlier, it had worked so well, before getting fuel leakage under the ATV,
I also had put in in my gas for the 582 on my Kitfox. Worked great there
too, keeping clean plugs and smooth idling.
I hadn't had the plane out in a coupla weeks and when I saw the gas puddle
under the ATV, I hobbled out to the folded wing, mini hanger, checked the
carbs for leaking and sure enough, there was a large gas puddle on the floor
under the engine. I was mixing the plane gas with the premix oil and
adding the suggested amount of Marvel Mystery Oil.
I pulled both carbs and checked the rubber tips on the float needles and
they were deteriorating.
Not being a real fast thinker, I guess, I cussed to myself, about the poor
quality of tips on the needle valves and how things just weren't up to the
standards of earlier years.
I replaced the Bing needles, and made no changes in the Marvel oil as it
was sure working good in cleaning up the combustion chanmbers.
A week or so later, I had another gas puddle under the plane and the ATV
was still leaking gas. Finally the gray mater lit up and I drained the
fuel tanks on both the plane and the ATV and again, replaced the float
needles on the 2 engines. After I'd used up all the bad words that I
learned from all the bad people I knew, I hadda start making up a whole lot
of new ones, that I'd like to pass on.... But I can't spell 'em.
Any way, I changed the 582 over to oil injection and am using the Marvel
in the oil injection system and quit putting Marvel in the ATV. It's been
several months now and no more fuel leakage from either engine.
It seems that the Marvel is a good product, if it not used where it can
come in contact with the rubber tips they are now using on the float
needles. (they all used to be brass tips) Marvel sure keeps things
cleaned up and seems to work great in the 4 cycle oil engines, But beware
of mixing with gasoline in the fuel tanks.
My ATV still fouls plugs, so I buy them buy the dozen. If anyon's
interested in some old fouled plugs to play with, I have some real cheap.
Herbert Doud
Kitfox IV/582
New Braunfels, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut fairing questions. |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
I have to check from Hoerners book but i think it around 4 to 1 ratio
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134742#134742
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust parts 582 |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Well the Y pipe is what was cut I think at Skystar as well as the 90 Elbow but
I added mine to the elbow. Your elbow will be near the cowl and might burn
a hole in it but a air outlet could be added there or just a bump. The muffler
will not longer be straight below the engine but on a little angle. I am
sure there is a way to alter more but I have not spent the time on it yet.
Basically I just added 1 1/2 inches to the header directly onto the elbow on the
top of it. I could have added to the y pipe but it seemed easier to do it
this way.
Just out for a 1 hour flight with a friend , I have on the IVO medium right now
and it worked well about 4 mph faster that without the exhaust mod.
Now all we need to do it put a different pipe on it and see another 5 or 10 hp
:)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134777#134777
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_174.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Herbert , Thanks for the info.
I have never needed it in over 35 years of 2 strokes.
Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ?
I get 150 hours out of my 582 on BR8ES solid tips that are pre gapped .018 new. Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134778#134778
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SOURDOSTAN(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: --Subject:: Change-Carb Boots - 912 UL |
The Lockwood number for the new carb boots/sockets is 267 788 (Carb Socket,
912/912S/914, new style w/8mm spacer). Cost from Lockwood is $94.75 each. You
should ask them how often to change.
Stan Specht
Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine"
Denver, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JC Propellerdesign" <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se> |
| Subject: | Re: Strut fairing questions. |
Hi
It depends on the Reynolds number, a cyl (tube) with Re <10^5 have drag
coefficient 1 - 1,3, and with Re >10^6 = CD 0,30
With an airfoil of length 3:1 (0,333) and Re >10^6 = CD 0,04
with a Re under 10^5 the length have to be 5:1 (0,20) to get same drag
CD 0,04
a 2" diameter tube at 100 MPH have Re 1,56*10^5
8" long and Re is 6,26*10^5 and CD will be 0,012 with reference to the
surface area
so with say total 10 meter of 2" tube the drag will be 60-80 kg
and with airfoil 3 kg at 100 MPH
And a NACA 67-020 or NACA 67-025 will have little more then half the
drag a NACA 0020 - 0025 will have if made correct.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:35 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
I have to check from Hoerners book but i think it around 4 to 1
ratio
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134742#134742
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Update on VG testing .........
just in from more aggressive stall testing.
power off -- full aft stick - just get a 500 fpm mush with less buffet that without
VGs and no nose drop.
power on -- 3 stalls - one right wing dropped other 2 no wing drop .
still less buffeting that before .
So far, satisfied with VGs and no cruise speed loss it seems. as far as claims
of these 8 + mph stall speed drops -- in my case that just a myth so far but
2 or 3 mph about the most of got SO FAR .
http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134800#134800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JC Propellerdesign" <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust parts 582 |
Dave,
With about 250 RPM gain at WOT you have increased power with about 12%
like going from 60 to 67, or 65 to 73 Hp
increasing speed with 3,85 %
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 5:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Exhaust parts 582
Well the Y pipe is what was cut I think at Skystar as well as the 90
Elbow but I added mine to the elbow. Your elbow will be near the cowl
and might burn a hole in it but a air outlet could be added there or
just a bump. The muffler will not longer be straight below the engine
but on a little angle. I am sure there is a way to alter more but I
have not spent the time on it yet.
Basically I just added 1 1/2 inches to the header directly onto the
elbow on the top of it. I could have added to the y pipe but it seemed
easier to do it this way.
Just out for a 1 hour flight with a friend , I have on the IVO medium
right now and it worked well about 4 mph faster that without the
exhaust mod.
Now all we need to do it put a different pipe on it and see another 5
or 10 hp :)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134777#134777
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/8_174.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Bunches of stuff |
>From what I've read MMO is mostly Stoddard solvent (Varisol) and lard.
I
have no idea what the lard does for the recipe but I know I don't want
Varisol soaking the seals in the base of my engine. I might consider
using
the stuff for the last ten hours or so before an engine tear down for
new
seals just to clean things up a bit for inspection. sorry guys but I'm
with
the crowd that is NOT in favour of additives to gas or oil for planes.
If you are getting too much carbon in your engine and your oil ratios
are
correct then you are using the wrong brand of oil. Bombardier, the
manufacturer's, oil, Pennzoil air-cooled and "El Cheapo" WallyWorld oil
all
seem to work well according to the reports from this and other lists.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
If the Mystery Oil is causing damage to the needle tips, I can't help
but
wonder what it's doing to the inside of your fuel lines and or oil
injection
lines?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herbert Doud
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:59 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
Many thanks to all of you Kitfoxers who responded either to me directly
or
to the list concerning my question as to why we Kitfoxers put the
firewall
blanket on the engine side, instead of on the cabin side as do GA
aircraft
manufacturers. A large number of builders who responded, have eiher
done
away with the blanket or have installed it on the cabin side of the
firewall, which makes sense to this old fart.
Now to another subject. I guess everyone who messes with car and
airplane
engines have heard of Marvel Mystery Oil. I'v used it off and on for
50
years.
I bought an ATV sometime back and through short trip useage and many
starts,
the spark plug was carboning up and fouling. Most of my use with
Marvel,
was in the engine oil, for break-ins and hard useage. On the container
Marvel is also suggested for the fuel, for upper end lube and cleaning
of
the cylinders.
I tried it on the ATV and for a coupla weeks, using the recommended
amount
in the fuel and it worked super. The plug cleaned up, starts were
easier
and it idled better........But, I started getting a gasoline puddle
under my
ATV, coming out of the carb overflow.
Bunches of work, but I pulled the carb, looked at the float needle and
it
had turned gummy and was leaking. So I installed a new needle and put
the
works back together. A week or so later, I started getting a large
fuel
puddle under the ATV again.
Earlier, it had worked so well, before getting fuel leakage under the
ATV, I
also had put in in my gas for the 582 on my Kitfox. Worked great there
too, keeping clean plugs and smooth idling.
I hadn't had the plane out in a coupla weeks and when I saw the gas
puddle
under the ATV, I hobbled out to the folded wing, mini hanger, checked
the
carbs for leaking and sure enough, there was a large gas puddle on the
floor
under the engine. I was mixing the plane gas with the premix oil and
adding the suggested amount of Marvel Mystery Oil.
I pulled both carbs and checked the rubber tips on the float needles and
they were deteriorating.
Not being a real fast thinker, I guess, I cussed to myself, about the
poor
quality of tips on the needle valves and how things just weren't up to
the
standards of earlier years.
I replaced the Bing needles, and made no changes in the Marvel oil as it
was
sure working good in cleaning up the combustion chanmbers.
A week or so later, I had another gas puddle under the plane and the ATV
was
still leaking gas. Finally the gray mater lit up and I drained the
fuel
tanks on both the plane and the ATV and again, replaced the float
needles on
the 2 engines. After I'd used up all the bad words that I learned from
all
the bad people I knew, I hadda start making up a whole lot of new ones,
that I'd like to pass on.... But I can't spell 'em.
Any way, I changed the 582 over to oil injection and am using the Marvel
in
the oil injection system and quit putting Marvel in the ATV. It's been
several months now and no more fuel leakage from either engine.
It seems that the Marvel is a good product, if it not used where it can
come
in contact with the rubber tips they are now using on the float needles.
(they all used to be brass tips) Marvel sure keeps things cleaned up
and
seems to work great in the 4 cycle oil engines, But beware of mixing
with
gasoline in the fuel tanks.
My ATV still fouls plugs, so I buy them buy the dozen. If anyon's
interested in some old fouled plugs to play with, I have some real
cheap.
Herbert Doud
Kitfox IV/582
New Braunfels, Tx
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust parts 582 |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Kind of nice eh !! [Laughing] [Laughing] [Laughing] [Laughing]
> Dave,
>
> With about 250 RPM gain at WOT you have increased power with about 12% like going
from 60 to 67, or 65 to 73 Hp
>
> increasing speed with 3,85 %
>
> Jan
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134871#134871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strut fairing questions. |
All,
For any of you having a little trouble interpreting Jan's formulas,
here's the laymens formula for determining fairing sizes as I remember
it;
For every inch of thickness of the part you want to streamline, you need
a fairing 4.25 times wider. In other words, if you have a one inch
round strut tube, you will need a streamline fairing with a 4.25 inch
wide chord. Interestingly, the shape of streamlined chromoly and
aluminum for aircraft generally do not meet this rule, as for the most
part they have too narrow of a chord (Go figure?)
Now this is just a general rule of thumb, and it's off the top of my
head. So if you want more technical than that, talk to Jan...
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: JC Propellerdesign
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
Hi
It depends on the Reynolds number, a cyl (tube) with Re <10^5 have
drag coefficient 1 - 1,3, and with Re >10^6 = CD 0,30
With an airfoil of length 3:1 (0,333) and Re >10^6 = CD 0,04
with a Re under 10^5 the length have to be 5:1 (0,20) to get same drag
CD 0,04
a 2" diameter tube at 100 MPH have Re 1,56*10^5
8" long and Re is 6,26*10^5 and CD will be 0,012 with reference to the
surface area
so with say total 10 meter of 2" tube the drag will be 60-80 kg
and with airfoil 3 kg at 100 MPH
And a NACA 67-020 or NACA 67-025 will have little more then half the
drag a NACA 0020 - 0025 will have if made correct.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:35 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
I have to check from Hoerners book but i think it around 4 to 1
ratio
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134742#134742
http://www.matron===================
===
bsp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JC Propellerdesign" <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se> |
| Subject: | Re: Strut fairing questions. |
Well spoken.
Re number is the length in mm (millimeter) times airspeed in m/s times
70. (there is a formula for inch, feet and miles too)
in short, wing struts is UNDER CRITICAL Re. so need 4 to 1 or 5 to1 in
length versus thickness. and / or laminar layer control ( Think golf
ball) to trip the boundary layer into TURBULENT layer that have energy
to follow the airfoil.
can be made of Dyno tape (old one) with big V typed all the way. or cut
length vise with a zigzag scissor (for fabric) and the cut turned into
the airstream, applied both side of wingstrut. at highest point, or just
forward of.
CD is Drag Coefficient that relates to something like wet area or
frontal area (different coefficients)
To get the actual drag, CD times the reference area times Dynamic
pressure. simple as that.
and at level flight drag equal thrust, and lift equal weight (almost)
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Seehafer
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
All,
For any of you having a little trouble interpreting Jan's formulas,
here's the laymens formula for determining fairing sizes as I remember
it;
For every inch of thickness of the part you want to streamline, you
need a fairing 4.25 times wider. In other words, if you have a one inch
round strut tube, you will need a streamline fairing with a 4.25 inch
wide chord. Interestingly, the shape of streamlined chromoly and
aluminum for aircraft generally do not meet this rule, as for the most
part they have too narrow of a chord (Go figure?)
Now this is just a general rule of thumb, and it's off the top of my
head. So if you want more technical than that, talk to Jan...
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: JC Propellerdesign
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
Hi
It depends on the Reynolds number, a cyl (tube) with Re <10^5 have
drag coefficient 1 - 1,3, and with Re >10^6 = CD 0,30
With an airfoil of length 3:1 (0,333) and Re >10^6 = CD 0,04
with a Re under 10^5 the length have to be 5:1 (0,20) to get same
drag CD 0,04
a 2" diameter tube at 100 MPH have Re 1,56*10^5
8" long and Re is 6,26*10^5 and CD will be 0,012 with reference to
the surface area
so with say total 10 meter of 2" tube the drag will be 60-80 kg
and with airfoil 3 kg at 100 MPH
And a NACA 67-020 or NACA 67-025 will have little more then half the
drag a NACA 0020 - 0025 will have if made correct.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:35 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Strut fairing questions.
I have to check from Hoerners book but i think it around 4 to
1 ratio
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134742#134742
http://www.matron===================
===
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dcaofak(at)acsalaska.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Master Valve |
I was cleaning out some old boxes and found the original fuel master
valve that came with my model 3 kit back in 1991. I simplified the fuel
line routing and ended up not using it. If you want it and the little
shroud / mount it's in, please contact me privately and I'll send it to
you.
Regards,
John Stoner
KF III, 582
Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Call John Mc Bean, he sells them.
You can make your own if you can find 1 1/4 " wide springs but they hard to find.
IF you want one now just call and get it shipped right away. I forget price but
I think 50 to 75$ area. I got one and it works ok.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134941#134941
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
Paul sez:
>I agree 100% that a light aircraft has a much higher chance of
>survivabilty than would a heavier one.
After my accident, I told my partners that I wished the accident had
happened in our Piper because the insurance company could just buy us
a new one rather than my having to build another one. One of my
Kitfox buddies assured me that I probably would not have survived in
that faster, heavier airplane.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
I have electric trim on my model 4. It works great except for one thing; When landing
with flaps, it doesn't have enough authority to trim hands off at 55 mph.
I still need a fair amount of back pressure to keep the speed down. I'm still
not comfortable landing at my 1200ft farm field with trees on both ends and
being able to trim out all the back pressure would really help. Any ideas?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134969#134969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | kerrimikehickman(at)aol.com |
Hi,
I have a model 6, same initial problem, John McBean on his website I believe sells
a tension spring (trim assist) which pre-loads the control stick and really
does cure this ill...no more running out of trim w/the electric system, and
hands-off to stall works great.? Give him a call.? Cheers.? Mike H.
-----Original Message-----
From: wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 9:44 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trim Authority
I have electric trim on my model 4. It works great except for one thing; When
landing with flaps, it doesn't have enough authority to trim hands off at 55
mph. I still need a fair amount of back pressure to keep the speed down. I'm
still not comfortable landing at my 1200ft farm field with trees on both ends
and being able to trim out all the back pressure would really help. Any ideas?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134969#134969
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Does the spring system work in conjunction with the existing electric trim? How
is it adjusted? Would I then have two separate trim systems to adjust?
> have a model 6, same initial problem, John McBean on his website I believe sells
a tension spring (trim assist) which pre-loads the control stick and really
does cure this ill...no more running out of trim w/the electric system, and
hands-off to stall works great. Give him a call. Cheers. Mike H.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134974#134974
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest and Jane Deel" <ernieandjane(at)naxs.net> |
| Subject: | New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
From; Ernest Deel ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
Subject; Request for info;;
I am considering purchasing a KF IV Speedster (s/n JCS 137) project--no
FWF except Rotax engine mount. The plane had minor wing-tip and landing
gear damage from a high speed taxi incident and the engine was removed
for another project. I will want to convert to a tri-gear (nose wheel)
Are approved parts and plans available? From who and where? Is this a
complicated conversion? Requiring welding and reinforcement of fuselage
and/or firewall? And will I need to make a decision on which engine
before beginning work on the landing gear? A close-up picture or sketch
showing how the nose gear brackets are attached would be helpful. Will
this be considered a major airframe modification? and what kind of
"paper-work" and inspections will be required? (Although I built and
flew a Vari-Eze I do not have much expertise with tube and fabric or
welding) An opinion (guesstimate?) on cost will also be welcome.
Engines?? Possibly a Jabiru 2200? Just a couple days ago I saw from
www.compactradialengines.com an 85hp MZ-301 with about the best
power-weight-cost ratio numbers I have seen? Anybody know about or care
to comment on this engine (and the company?)
Any help, ideas, comments, will be welcome and greatly appreciated. Also
if anyone within a100 miles or so of Grundy VA (southwestern VA) has a
Kitfox (tri-gear or tail dgr) I would like a close up look at it. Thanks
again! Ernie
Ernest Deel
Rt 1 Box 349A
Vansant, VA 24656
276 859 0434
ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "crazyivan" <dmivezic(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's a theory that might help...get the vortex generators from www.landshorter.com and install them on the bottom of your horizontal stab. This should give your elevator more authority at lower speeds.
I have the same characteristics on my Model IV Speedster but probably not quite
as bad due to my shorter wing. I actually prefer to run out of trim on final
because I can better feel what the airplane is doing. It also forces me to fly
with the gentle touch and not be ham-handed.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134991#134991
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Luis,
1200 feet runway plus trees at both end ? Well should be no problem fora Kitfox
Long wing. Biggest thing is to learn the skills and practice them to make this
easy for you. I would suggest practicing alot of slow flight at or a few mph
over stall speed until more comfortable plus with up to 20 degrees flaps.
Then Side slipping with and without flaps.
Find a grass strip about 2000 feet long with trees near you and try it in there
then go to a 1500 foot one. Then a 1200 foot one. You should be able to get
in and out of a 1200 foot strip pretty with no concerns after a while . Key is
slow approach in control. What speed indicated does your plane stall at ?
On mine I can approach at 45 to 50 mph and then sideslip down right to the ground,
then kick it straight. If you kick it too early on a long wing you will get
more float.
As far as trim, I have none. The Kitfox controls are so light It not a concern
for me.
this forum has some talk on VG testing that I have done over the last few weeks http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31939
plus more here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135002#135002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don & Dianne Usher" <denver7(at)xplornet.com> |
I have a model 111, 582, on Full Lotus floats. Plane empty on wheels
weighs 496 lbs, I weigh 150. Not really happy with Full Lotus and have
to have amphibs. Looking to buy Czech amphibs. Anybody with this
combination? and if so, how is water performance with two people.
Thanks.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Herbert Doud" <hdoud(at)satx.rr.com> |
Kitfoxers replying to my use and results of Marvel Mystery Oil.
As I've explained previously, I'm using the Marvel in my Rotax injection
system, mixed with my regular 2 cycle oil.
I add to 13 oz. of Penzoil, 2 cycle oil for air cooled engines, 2 oz.
of Marvel oil to the oil injection reservoir, which is a ratio of 50:1,
(2.5 oz. per gal of gas) of 2 cycle oil and 320:1,(.40 oz. per gal.) of
gas Marvel Oil. (Marvel's recommended ratio of oil to gas. 2 oz. per 5
gal. gas.) 13 oz. of Penzoil in the Rotax injection system, also treats
5 gal. gas.
I questioned the effect of Marvel in the only rubber (?) tubing,
carrying the oil fom the oil reservoir to the injection pump. I'm
keeping a close eye on that 6 inch tubing for any signs of
deterioration. There hasn't been any in over a year. I think the
very small and fragile needle end of rubber (?) on the end of the float
valve needle must be overly affected with it's tiny size, as compared to
the larger rubber (?) tubing.. If I see there is any sign of
deterioration in the tubing, I'll replace it with a plastic line,
possibly urethane.
For those folks, having no carbonization and a clean running engine, I
see no reason to make any changes. I
posted the subect for those Kitfoxers who may be having a dirty plug
problem, even with proper leaning and a desire to hopefully, keep
cleaner rings and a cleaner combustion chamber. It's worked for me
over the past 50 years, with antique cars, with engine break -in,
keeping clean combustion chambers and a smooth running lower end.
Marvel has been in business making the oil since 1925.. That's a very
long marketing time.
My NGK BR8ES, plugs in the Rotax, looked like new and still gapped at
.018 thousands, when I pulled them at 50 hours and would have gone much
longer, but since I had 'em out, I replaced 'em. As mentioned my ATV
plugs were fouling like crazy, before Marvel and clean after using
Marvel, but I had many float needle replacements, which stopped, when I
quit premixing Marvel in the ATV gas, so beware using Marvel for pre-mix
in the fuel tank. There's been no leaking of fuel in the Kitfox, since
I went to oil injection.
Many years ago, I talked with the Marvel folks about the make-up of
their product. They were naturally secretive, but after the discussion,
I gathered that Marvel was made up of a detergent solvent like Varsol,
such as we have been cleaning aircraft engines with, for years and a low
level carboning and lubricating grease, basically derrived from animal
fat.
I can only assume from the Kitfox plug and exhaust pipe cleanliness,
that the combustion chamber and rings would be cleaner as well, also
drawing on my past experience with old auto engines. Won't know for
certain 'till the teardown of my 582 Blue Head, which has about 150
hours to date.
Hopefully the foregoing might be of help for some of our group.
Herbert Doud
Kitfox IV / 582 Blue Head
New Braunfels, Tx
************************************************
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Marvel Oil
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
Herbert , Thanks for the info.
I have never needed it in over 35 years of 2 strokes.
Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ?
I get 150 hours out of my 582 on BR8ES solid tips that are pre
gapped .018 new. Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Marvel Oil
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
Herbert , Thanks for the info.
I have never needed it in over 35 years of 2 strokes.
Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ?
I get 150 hours out of my 582 on BR8ES solid tips that are pre
gapped .018 new. Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
cleanliness and C
From: Jim Corner <jcorner(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
Herbert.... I am thinking of adding Marvel to my 582 operation, are
you using straight Marvel in the injection system or are you adding
it to your regular injection oil? If so in what percentage?
Jim
Kitfox 2, 582,
1100+ hrs
Calgary AB
*****************************************
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bunches of stuff
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
Can i ask why would you want to add it ?
I run easy past 300 hours using Bombardier XPS mineral oil and have no
reason to
need it so far ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
******************************************
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bunches of stuff
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
How many hours do you get out of your 582 plugs by using Marvel oil ?
how do you know your 582 is clean inside ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
************************************************
From: "Andy Fultz" <andynfultz(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
If the Mystery Oil is causing damage to the needle tips, I can't help
but
wonder what it's doing to the inside of your fuel lines and or oil
injection
lines?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herbert Doud
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:59 PM
To: Kitfox-List Digest Server
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bunches of stuff
************************************
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Marvel Oil
From: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>
Herbert , Thanks for the info.
I have never needed it in over 35 years of 2 strokes.
Did you know it made of Stoddard solvent, Mineral oil and Lard . ?
I get 150 hours out of my 582 on BR8ES solid tips that are pre
gapped .018 new. Pics here http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Herbert I respect your opinion and your success speaks for itself. That being
said what "would have " happened if you had not used it ?
I can point you fora few articles
http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/snake_oil.txt
Another one that describes the ingredients http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
According to the FAA inspector, the additive that was added to the fuel was Marvel
Mystery Oil. An empty 1 gallon can of Marvel Mystery Oil was found in the
operator's trash. Instructions found on the can stated that the correct ratio
for mixing with fuel was 1 part additive to 100 parts fuel. The contents of Marvel
Mystery Oil were 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and
1 percent lard
>According to Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1014M, dated May 22, 1995, the use
of fuel additives was not recommended, and voided the engine warranty.
I don't think Rotax recommends it either.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135036#135036
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
To be honest I was wondering what all the talk about the elevator trim
was
about. My model III-A seems to trim out pretty well (not quite hands
off
but close) without any other springs, tabs, or bungee cords. I have
lots of
elevator control while landing on floats. Generally I touch down just
before the wing stops flying and the stick is almost all the way back.
In
next to calm conditions I expect the plane to be idle taxiing with in
three
hundred feet... It takes more space than that to get off at gross.
I have a tab installed on my rudder to take the work out of keeping
straight
at cruise. It works like a charm. The only thing is as you take off or
land you have to be on the rudder every second. I think a larger rudder
would be the only change I would make. I too like to use slips and that
little rudder just doesn't give me enough authority to pull a good slip
with
the pendulum effect of the floats.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:27 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trim Authority
>
>
> Luis,
> 1200 feet runway plus trees at both end ? Well should be no
> problem fora Kitfox Long wing. Biggest thing is to learn the
> skills and practice them to make this easy for you. I would
> suggest practicing alot of slow flight at or a few mph over
> stall speed until more comfortable plus with up to 20 degrees
> flaps. Then Side slipping with and without flaps.
>
> Find a grass strip about 2000 feet long with trees near you
> and try it in there then go to a 1500 foot one. Then a 1200
> foot one. You should be able to get in and out of a 1200
> foot strip pretty with no concerns after a while . Key is
> slow approach in control. What speed indicated does your
> plane stall at ?
>
> On mine I can approach at 45 to 50 mph and then sideslip down
> right to the ground, then kick it straight. If you kick it
> too early on a long wing you will get more float.
>
> As far as trim, I have none. The Kitfox controls are so
> light It not a concern for me.
>
>
> this forum has some talk on VG testing that I have done over
> the last few weeks http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31939
> plus more here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135002#135002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
Ernie,
We can help.. please feel free to contact us off list.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest and Jane
Deel
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New subscriber-1st post-request for info
From; Ernest Deel ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
Subject; Request for info;;
I am considering purchasing a KF IV Speedster (s/n JCS 137) project--no FWF
except Rotax engine mount. The plane had minor wing-tip and landing gear
damage from a high speed taxi incident and the engine was removed for
another project. I will want to convert to a tri-gear (nose wheel)
Are approved parts and plans available? >From who and where? Is this a
complicated conversion? Requiring welding and reinforcement of fuselage
and/or firewall? And will I need to make a decision on which engine before
beginning work on the landing gear? A close-up picture or sketch showing
how the nose gear brackets are attached would be helpful. Will this be
considered a major airframe modification? and what kind of "paper-work" and
inspections will be required? (Although I built and flew a Vari-Eze I do not
have much expertise with tube and fabric or welding) An opinion
(guesstimate?) on cost will also be welcome.
Engines?? Possibly a Jabiru 2200? Just a couple days ago I saw from
www.compactradialengines.com <http://www.compactradialengines.com> an 85hp
MZ-301 with about the best power-weight-cost ratio numbers I have seen?
Anybody know about or care to comment on this engine (and the company?)
Any help, ideas, comments, will be welcome and greatly appreciated. Also if
anyone within a100 miles or so of Grundy VA (southwestern VA) has a Kitfox
(tri-gear or tail dgr) I would like a close up look at it. Thanks again!
Ernie
Ernest Deel
Rt 1 Box 349A
Vansant, VA 24656
276 859 0434
ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
11:53 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aerobatics(at)aol.com |
So much controversy ...:-)
Being an individual, my experience would be limited what I can fly. When
Rotax looks at reliability, their view point is from many thousands of engines
over the years and who knows how many hours vs my 400 hrs. in my 582 Bluehead.
There are a few Rotax flyers at my field some are very opinionated based on
their experience... example...one owner says Amsol is the answer and so on.
I listen and respect their opinion, its all important data.
However, when Rotax recommends a certain RPM, EGT, even oil, that's my
starting point. My baseline. I will stick with that until someone can prove to
me
beyond the Rotax experience that there is a better way. Then I would be
willing to change.
Just seems to me a logical way of managing risk when we attempt to break the
bonds of earth!
Fly safe and enjoy
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Thanks for the tips guys. My Kitfox came with a VG kit that the previous owner
never got around to installing. I will try that first since it's something I already
have. If that doesn't work, I'll look at that spring assist.
No doubt that landing at my place will get easier with practice but while I'm learning,
I expect that it will help to be able to trim for hands off during final.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135056#135056
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
Ernest sez:
>I will want to convert to a tri-gear (nose wheel).
>
>Are approved parts and plans available? From who and where? Is this
>a complicated conversion? Requiring welding and reinforcement of
>fuselage and/or firewall? And will I need to make a decision on
>which engine before beginning work on the landing gear?
I think you are on your own as far as plans go, but the process isn't
rocket science. Some welding and reinforcement is required, but I
don't think the engine choice matters at this point unless you plan
to do something truly exotic.
You'll need a mounting plate welded to the tubing just behind the
firewall and you'll need to reinforce the tubing just behind the
seats. On mine, we did this by welding plates between the tubes, as
shown in the attached photos.
The nosewheel assembly was supplied by the factory and the main gear
is from Grove.
Hope this is helpful,
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Dave, for reference Rotax does recommend oil with a API-TC rating .
Pennzoil for Air cooled is a popular choice but so is Bombardier XPS mineral
oil. I buy it in bulk. XPS is popular with Ski doo sleds and SeaDoo jet skis
as well. It is made by Castrol and a little bit better than Castrol Super 2
stroke but the supper 2 stroke is still a good choice. I do use the Super 2 stroke
in my RV bottle just so that I can see it easier as it is blue.
There is much controversy over oils whether it be synthetic or mineral oil . But
the key is the API-TC rating. You see outboard oil is TCW rated like TC W3
but outboards have different operating parameters that we do.
If you want to get on synthetics, my rule is if you don't run you engine a few
times a week then it is more likely to have a bearing issue than a Mineral oil
user. I have no problem selling Rotax cranks for $1200 to $1500 each so feel
free to llet them rust.
As far as additives like Marvel oil well that is a personal preference and some
swear by it. I can show you my last 3 582's than went well over 300 hours with
nothing but XPS oil and they ran fine.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135062#135062
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Luis, I don;t think you will find the VGs will be a better solution than perfecting
your short field skills . Take a few days when calm in the AM or before
dark and do at least 10 circuits each time to try to hone your skills.
I have a you tube video here http://www.cfisher.com/vg.html that at the end shows side slipping down to the ground over 80 foot trees . to land short over obstacles you will need to excel at side slipping and slow flight.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135064#135064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
I agree. No substitute for practice. I do it every chance I get. On the other hand,
if there's some gizmo out there that makes the airplane a little easier to
handle in certain situations, then that doesn't hurt either. Trimming the airplane
for neutral stick pressure during final was part of my training and makes
good sense to me. I don't see any advantage in having to hold back pressure
during the approach.
> Luis, I don;t think you will find the VGs will be a better solution than perfecting
your short field skills . Take a few days when calm in the AM or before
dark and do at least 10 circuits each time to try to hone your skills.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135067#135067
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Luis, Most of my flying is 500 agl or so and away from airports. Alot of base
legs might be only at 100 agl or so so my trim is not needed as much when at
1000 agl airport circuits.
But for sure practice it all.......... and especially forced approaches as one
never knows when you might have to find a spot to land with little notice.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135072#135072
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: czech floats |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
is there a particular reason that you dont like the full-lotus floats? Are you
by any chance using the skystar rigging? I was not real happy with the full
lotus on the KF using the original skystar rigging till I changed the step position
and the angle of incidence on the wing.. now it is a fun machine that will
go some amazing places.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135146#135146
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: czech floats |
What were your new figures on the step and the incidence??
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:51 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: czech floats
>
>
>
> is there a particular reason that you dont like the
> full-lotus floats? Are you by any chance using the skystar
> rigging? I was not real happy with the full lotus on the KF
> using the original skystar rigging till I changed the step
> position and the angle of incidence on the wing.. now it is a
> fun machine that will go some amazing places.
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135146#135146
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
Call me a relic, but I personally can't see why anyone would take a
perfectly good 'fox IV Speedster tailwheel plane and muck (sp?) it up
by going to a nosewheel! I think you need to ask yourself why you
want to convert....lack of tailwheel experience? Get trained. Is it
because the person who caused the wing-tip and gear damage blamed it
on the tailwheel? Maybe they needed training. Insurance writers don't
like/understand t'wheels? Might be something to that. Tailwheels have
been around since day one...well, maybe day two, but they are
learnable. Take it from a 70-yr old, who learned in a tailwheel
Kitfox...my own...at age 69.
As to your other decision...the engine....more and more people are
going to Jabiru...'nuf said.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 18, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Ernest and Jane Deel wrote:
> From; Ernest Deel ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
> Subject; Request for info;;
>
> I am considering purchasing a KF IV Speedster (s/n JCS 137)
> project--no FWF except Rotax engine mount. The plane had minor wing-
> tip and landing gear damage from a high speed taxi incident and the
> engine was removed for another project. I will want to convert to a
> tri-gear (nose wheel)
>
> Are approved parts and plans available? >From who and where? Is
> this a complicated conversion? Requiring welding and reinforcement
> of fuselage and/or firewall? And will I need to make a decision on
> which engine before beginning work on the landing gear? A close-up
> picture or sketch showing how the nose gear brackets are attached
> would be helpful. Will this be considered a major airframe
> modification? and what kind of "paper-work" and inspections will be
> required? (Although I built and flew a Vari-Eze I do not have much
> expertise with tube and fabric or welding) An opinion
> (guesstimate?) on cost will also be welcome.
>
> Engines?? Possibly a Jabiru 2200? Just a couple days ago I saw from
> www.compactradialengines.com an 85hp MZ-301 with about the best
> power-weight-cost ratio numbers I have seen? Anybody know about or
> care to comment on this engine (and the company?)
>
> Any help, ideas, comments, will be welcome and greatly appreciated.
> Also if anyone within a100 miles or so of Grundy VA (southwestern
> VA) has a Kitfox (tri-gear or tail dgr) I would like a close up
> look at it. Thanks again! Ernie
>
> Ernest Deel
> Rt 1 Box 349A
> Vansant, VA 24656
> 276 859 0434
> ernieandjane(at)naxs.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Broken tailwheel spring- revelation |
It might, but you've still got the tailwheel flopping around back
there, possibly causing some damage. Better (in my opinion) to do
something to prevent...as much as possible...the breakage in the
first place. By going to the three-piece spring, you will have two
main leaves, thus giving you 100% redundancy....the chances of
breaking both main leaves at the same time, thus putting the t'wheel
into "flop mode" are pretty slim, I would think. And if you slam it
down hard enough to do that, you've got other issues to deal with
other than a little rash on the rudder.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 17, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:
> Would a metal tube shaped like a C attached right in front of the
> tail wheel spring serve as a stop to prevent damage in the event of
> a tail wheel spring break? This could resemble the skid used on
> the d tail wheel planes.
>
> Mike Chaney
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Not so fast there, Michel...when I broke my 2-leaf (main and helper/
> booster/whatever) I still got a bit of rash on my rudder because the
> tailwheel flopped around a bit and the rear of the plane dropped down
> to be SUPPORTED by the helper leaf (as it dragged along in the dirt),
> but the tailwheel could STILL cause you damage because it is no
> longer held in position by anything. You could still break your main
> leaf and cause damage to the plane without the rudder actually
> hitting the ground. With the new three-leaf spring, there are two
> main leafs that have to break before the above scenario would happen.
> My 2-leaf spring broke at about the 450 or so landings mark, and
> based on metallurgy, your new one may go before or after that. I had
> 43 pounds on my tail during weighing. I bought the 3-leaf model
> because it is a safety feature, not because I needed a stiffer spring.
> Taking this whole safety/stiffness thing a bit further, one might
> conclude that if a spring were to be made of 1/8" (3mm) leaves, one
> could use maybe four leaves that are all held by the current two
> bolts, that maybe a softer ride would result, and the safety margin
> would be much greater.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Authority |
Luis sez:
>Trimming the airplane for neutral stick pressure during final was
>part of my training and makes good sense to me.
It's an FAA requirement that certified airplanes be capable of being
trimmed for their approach speed. That doesn't apply to
experimentals, of course, but I like it.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
Lynn sez:
>...I personally can't see why anyone would take a perfectly good
>'fox IV Speedster tailwheel plane and muck (sp?) it up by going to a
>nosewheel!
Let's not start the "why the heck would you want to do that?" stuff
again. The guy asked for advice on how to do something, not for a
bunch of editorials on something that is, after all, a personal
decision.
Mike G., Kitfox List Co-Moderator
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
You're right...I apologize...it was late at night and I should have
been sleeping...
Lynn
On Sep 19, 2007, at 3:41 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
>
> Lynn sez:
>
>> ...I personally can't see why anyone would take a perfectly good
>> 'fox IV Speedster tailwheel plane and muck (sp?) it up by going to
>> a nosewheel!
>
> Let's not start the "why the heck would you want to do that?" stuff
> again. The guy asked for advice on how to do something, not for a
> bunch of editorials on something that is, after all, a personal
> decision.
>
> Mike G., Kitfox List Co-Moderator
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
| From: | "Bob" <dswaim1119(at)comcast.net> |
Hi all -
Been away doing the work, kids, and rest of life for the summer and saw this so
thought I'd throw in my 2-cents.
Trying to land in treetops has been done, but it has become a myth and is far more hazardous than controlling your impact. Go into the NTSB records (www.ntsb.gov) and it's easy to find records like these:
"The airplane dipped to the left, struck the trees and fell to the ground."
or
"the plane hit the tree tops and tumbled through the trees"
or a survivable one in a 172:
"The airplane clipped the tops of the trees, then plunged down nose-first. Both
wings were bent by the impact."
There are two reasons that the odds are against a successful tree-top landing.
The first is that after the first contact, you have absolutely no control of
what's next. One of those long wings is going to hit a tree first (or the gear
will) and things are going to pivot on that point. And that first impact will
be the fastest one.
I'd rather control where the impact with the most energy is going to happen. One
of the things instructors teach is that when performing a forced landing in
a short field, landing short or hitting trees at the near end with more speed
is going to do a lot more damage than controlling where you roll into them while
slower at the far end.
The second reason that tree-top landings don't generally work out well is that
gravity still rules. For every photo that you've probably seen of a plane in
the trees, I'll bet you can think of two where the airplane is nose down at the
base of some trees. If you don't truly snag enough tree branches to keep you
up, the airplane is going to fall. With the engine up front and that tail snagging
branches at the back, the nose is going to go straight down. Here's where
you need to think of survivability. Would you be willing to hang your plane
by the tail at the height of whatever tree, strap in, and then cut the strap?
That's about what happens in these situations and there just isn't that much
crushable material in front of you to break your fall.
There is an upside in that the statitstics show that the Kitfox and Avid series
have an amazingly good survivability rate and it's largely due to the slow stall
speeds. The overall accident rate for experimentals is much higher than
the certified airplanes, largely due to fuel and other systems installations.
However, the 'Foxes and Avids land slow (less energy to dissipate) and deform
structure in a way that absorbs energy around the central cockpit area, as long
as it's not a full frontal impact. Keeping from having a full frontal impact
is something that you can control.
Bob
A&P, Aero Eng
Vixen (part-built)
Damascus, MD
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135234#135234
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators/Turbulator's |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
one more attribute on the Vg's that I failed to mention originally was a greater
AOA on climb out was evident.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135246#135246
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
My feeling is you are better to be able to be in control into the trees than falling
into them. If you have airspeed then you have better control than you will
when you run out of airspeed.
I had a friend over 20 years ago faced this scenario while flying his Apache and
losing one engine. With out being able to maintain altitude on single engine
operations his Apache went into 130 foot tall trees . After it slowed , what
was left of the fuselage and the 4 occupants suffered only minor injuries until
gravity took over and they basically free fell over 100 feet to rock. They
all suffered severe back injuries from that alone.
I have been PIC in 4 engine outs so far since I learned to fly nearly 30 years
ago , one I landed at an airport the other 3 were all forced approaches off
airport. Fortunately, none of the occupants ever had injuries nor did the aircraft.
I feel lucky and also think that the training and practice I have had
contributed to my luck. that being said i could have another forced approach
today or tomorrow and if so I hope to handle as best as possible.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135249#135249
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john oakley" <john(at)leptron.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
Mike G,
The main gear bracket you show does not look stock, who cut that out for
you? We need something like that for our model 1.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info
Ernest sez:
>I will want to convert to a tri-gear (nose wheel).
>
>Are approved parts and plans available? From who and where? Is this
>a complicated conversion? Requiring welding and reinforcement of
>fuselage and/or firewall? And will I need to make a decision on
>which engine before beginning work on the landing gear?
I think you are on your own as far as plans go, but the process isn't
rocket science. Some welding and reinforcement is required, but I
don't think the engine choice matters at this point unless you plan
to do something truly exotic.
You'll need a mounting plate welded to the tubing just behind the
firewall and you'll need to reinforce the tubing just behind the
seats. On mine, we did this by welding plates between the tubes, as
shown in the attached photos.
The nosewheel assembly was supplied by the factory and the main gear
is from Grove.
Hope this is helpful,
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
> Will this be considered a major airframe modification? and what kind of "paper-work"
and inspections will be required?
Ernie,
If this airplane already has an experimental airworthyness certificate the answer
is in the operating limitations issued with it. Some say you need to notify
the FSDO in writing about the modification. Some say just put it back into
Phase one (test phase) for five hours, I think, and make a log book entry.
It seems like every FSDO interprets the regulations differently so a call to your
FSDO will probably be needed to be sure.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135280#135280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
At 10:32 PM 9/17/2007, you wrote:
>Engines?? Possibly a Jabiru 2200? Just a couple days ago I saw from
><http://www.compactradialengines.com>www.compactradialengines.com an
>85hp MZ-301 with about the best power-weight-cost ratio numbers I
>have seen? Anybody know about or care to comment on this engine (and
>the company?)
Welcome Ernie! It sounds like a fun project on your hands. I had
never seen the engines you referenced so I'm glad you showed them.
They look great, but of course are two-stroke, with all the attendant
problems, which are:
1. Mixing fuel. Two strokes require oil in their fuel. Rotax uses a
convenient oil pump to inject oil into the intake manifolds
precluding pre-mix. If these don't have oil injection you'll have to
pre-mix. It's not a big deal at home, but I suspect it would be a
real pain on the road. (I do a fair amount of long cross countries
and it's still a pain for me as I have to carry up to 20 pints,
(almost 20 pounds,) of oil with me for a week of flying.)
2. Fuel use. Two strokes are notorious gas hogs. You'll want to check
on that for these engines.
3. Noise. Two strokes are notoriously noisy, with a high pitched
whine that can be annoying.
I sound disparaging, but please note that I'm running a
Rotax 582 and have been quite happy with it. I can't help you with
the trike conversion but there are plenty that have done it. If you
don't get a response here email me privately and I'll try to hook you
up with a couple.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
I made a quick vid of a little hunt we were on last week. The camera man cant
quit talking but once you get past that it is ok lol..
A little history, I put my floats on my brothers kitfox, as I have been having
too much fun flying his plane since he got it up here to even think about working
on mine. I was not happy with the performance as I knew it could do better.
I have moved the step location 3 times and changed the angle of incidence
3 times also. In this video I had a bit too much angle of incidence on it. You
could get it off the water quick, but it had so much drag it slowed me down
8 knots. I added a 3/4" shim to the rear float mount and now have it nailed.
The cruise is still good 70 knots at 5800, and takeoff is great with no tendency
to porpoise.
At about 6:00 minutes into the vid you can see the slew I was taking off of in
the first part of the vid, and at 6:10 you can see the little pond. The rest
of the vid is just a small part of the flats we hunt. The ducks and geese are
really starting to move through and KF makes it a breeze to hunt the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKyg7uUV8js
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135331#135331
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Hart" <akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org> |
| Subject: | New float flying vid |
Leonard,
Was that video shot in the Susitna River flats?
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: Spam: Kitfox-List: New float flying vid
I made a quick vid of a little hunt we were on last week. The camera man
cant quit talking but once you get past that it is ok lol..
A little history, I put my floats on my brothers kitfox, as I have been
having too much fun flying his plane since he got it up here to even think
about working on mine. I was not happy with the performance as I knew it
could do better. I have moved the step location 3 times and changed the
angle of incidence 3 times also. In this video I had a bit too much angle
of incidence on it. You could get it off the water quick, but it had so
much drag it slowed me down 8 knots. I added a 3/4" shim to the rear float
mount and now have it nailed. The cruise is still good 70 knots at 5800,
and takeoff is great with no tendency to porpoise.
At about 6:00 minutes into the vid you can see the slew I was taking off of
in the first part of the vid, and at 6:10 you can see the little pond. The
rest of the vid is just a small part of the flats we hunt. The ducks and
geese are really starting to move through and KF makes it a breeze to hunt
the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKyg7uUV8js
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135331#135331
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spam: New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
south of the Kustatan...
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135344#135344
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Hart" <akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spam: New float flying vid |
OK, I know generally where you were. I used to do some of the same stuff in
a C-185 on amphibs on the Susitna flats. The areas are very similar in
appearance.
The video gave a good example of what a Kitfox is capapble of.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Spam: Kitfox-List: Re: Spam: New float flying vid
south of the Kustatan...
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135344#135344
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john taylor <jtayloraaf(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
wow!!! lenny. that was just too much fun..... tnx so much for sharing that
with us. i'm john bowman down here in sout la (prairieville) still trying
to get my avid hh covered. that fox-- what engine again?? i've got that d
ecision to make & the huge $$ to come up with..... between the jab & the ro
tax 9's....also looking at a new belgium engine, close to 100 hp, electroni
c ignitiion, but no usage data yet available & it's very expensive (more th
an the rotax 80 912) but apparently extremely well engineered. i'll send we
b site if u'r interested. tnx again. & take care. looks like home except
for the snow & ice that's coming or is it? will global warming turn it int
o new iberia afore long? are u all up there working in the way cool oil pat
ch? or did u just take a wrong turn. also, now soldatna sounds like the li
ttle place where we took a bush plane ride (old 180 on wheels) up to the bi
g mtn & then down on the grass tops looking for bear etc.... have
names of the pilot & his lady who rode with us if it's the same place - u
must know them if they're still around. my fantasy is to bring my avid bac
k up there flyin & riding in a trlr & air tour some of the places we visite
d a couple of yrs back. u be careful now!! u make the lotus float ads come
alive. i hope they appreciate u!!! john b.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message
----=0AFrom: akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.
com=0ASent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:42:41 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List
=0A=0AI made a quick vid of a little hunt we were
on last week. The camera man cant quit talking but once you get past that
it is ok lol..=0A=0AA little history, I put my floats on my brothers kitfox
, as I have been having too much fun flying his plane since he got it up he
re to even think about working on mine. I was not happy with the performan
ce as I knew it could do better. I have moved the step location 3 times an
d changed the angle of incidence 3 times also. In this video I had a bit t
oo much angle of incidence on it. You could get it off the water quick, bu
t it had so much drag it slowed me down 8 knots. I added a 3/4" shim to th
e rear float mount and now have it nailed. The cruise is still good 70 kno
ts at 5800, and takeoff is great with no tendency to porpoise.=0A=0AAt abou
t 6:00 minutes into the vid you can see the slew I was taking off of in the
first part of the vid, and at 6:10 you can see the little pond. The rest
of the vid is just a small part of the flats we hunt. The ducks and geese
are really starting to move through and KF makes it a breeze to hunt the ar
ea.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKyg7uUV8js=0A=0A--------=0ALeona
rd Perry=0ASoldotna AK=0AAvid "C" / Mk IV =0A582 IVO IFA=0AFull L
otus 1260=0A95% complete=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135331#135331=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
===0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________________________________
__________________________________=0APinpoint customers who are looking for
what you sell. =0Ahttp://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
he has a 582 in it with IVO IFA 68" 3 blade. I am ordering a set of 72" 2 blade
to see if I can get just a bit more thrust out of it. I know that on my pacer
I went from a 76X58 cruise prop to a 81X42 climb prop and holy cow did it make
a difference in getting off the water..went from a 1500'+ take off run to
around 350' only lost 15 knots of cruise
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135389#135389
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Nice video there.
What ratio you got 2.58 ?
I tried 2.62 on E box this year but lost take off and cruise speed over the 3.00
to 1 gear.
I have a 72 " IVO medium 2 blade on now and it really not alot different than
my WARP 68" three blade.
You won't see a Jabiru on floats perform like that. 912 yes but not a jab or
VW unless geared with a bigger prop.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135400#135400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don & Dianne Usher" <denver7(at)xplornet.com> |
I made a comment the other day about my floats. I have no issue with the
floats as to performance. I am off the water in flat calm in 8 secs and
cruise a 80mph. I live on Kootenay lake in BC and am exposed to the
wind. Have an airstrip three miles away where I keep the plane on a
trailer. Takes one hour to put it in the water and the same to take it
out. Thus the need for amphibs. I have three planes, two on floats and
fly vertually every day.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
2.62 How can it loose performance? You should be spinning the prop a bit faster.
Most guys that tried 3:1 said they went back to 2.62... I cant say as I have
never tried the 3:1. Were you swinging a longer prop at 3:1?
I would really be interested in getting a bit more thrust for mine for taking off
the grass or coming up on step when at "gross" or a tad over..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135421#135421
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JC Propellerdesign" <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se> |
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
Why not a BMW 1100 S, 85-90 HP low fuel consumption.
lot cheaper then the other.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: john taylor
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New float flying vid
wow!!! lenny. that was just too much fun..... tnx so much for sharing
that with us. i'm john bowman down here in sout la (prairieville) still
trying to get my avid hh covered. that fox-- what engine again?? i've
got that decision to make & the huge $$ to come up with..... between the
jab & the rotax 9's....also looking at a new belgium engine, close to
100 hp, electronic ignitiion, but no usage data yet available & it's
very expensive (more than the rotax 80 912) but apparently extremely
well engineered. i'll send web site if u'r interested. tnx again. &
take care. looks like home except for the snow & ice that's coming or is
it? will global warming turn it into new iberia afore long? are u all
up there working in the way cool oil patch? or did u just take a wrong
turn. also, now soldatna sounds like the little place where we took a
bush plane ride (old 180 on wheels) up to the big mtn & then down on the
grass tops looking for bear etc.... have names of the pilot & his lady
who rode with us if it's the same place - u must know them if they're
still around. my fantasy is to bring my avid back up there flyin &
riding in a trlr & air tour some of the places we visited a couple of
yrs back. u be careful now!! u make the lotus float ads come alive. i
hope they appreciate u!!! john b.
----- Original Message ----
From: akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:42:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New float flying vid
I made a quick vid of a little hunt we were on last week. The camera
man cant quit talking but once you get past that it is ok lol..
A little history, I put my floats on my brothers kitfox, as I have
been having too much fun flying his plane since he got it up here to
even think about working on mine. I was not happy with the performance
as I knew it could do better. I have moved the step location 3 times
and changed the angle of incidence 3 times also. In this video I had a
bit too much angle of incidence on it. You could get it off the water
quick, but it had so much drag it slowed me down 8 knots. I added a
3/4" shim to the rear float mount and now have it nailed. The cruise is
still good 70 knots at 5800, and takeoff is great with no tendency to
porpoise.
At about 6:00 minutes into the vid you can see the slew I was taking
off of in the first part of the vid, and at 6:10 you can see the little
pond. The rest of the vid is just a small part of the flats we hunt.
The ducks and geese are really starting to move through and KF makes it
a breeze to hunt the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKyg7uUV8js
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics - The Kitfox-List Email Forum
avigator?Kitfox-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kisp; - NEW
=====
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Takvt=48253/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC">Internet in
your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber-1st post-request for info |
John asks:
>The main gear bracket you show does not look stock, who cut that out
>for you? We need something like that for our model 1.
I'm pretty sure that is stock Grove mounting hardware, John.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
I tried 4 different props and re-pitched each accordingly with the 2.62 gear.
On amphibs on grass take off went from 350 to 450 feet.
Cruise speed dropped about 5-6 mph and climb I lost about 200 fpm. I flew for
about 10 hours with that gear set and quickly changed back to the 3 to 1 gears.
I would like to try 3.5:1 gears as well. I did think the faster spinning
prop would have cost me some take off but I also thought that it would
give me extra cruise. It was louder as well with the prop spinning about 300
rpm faster as well but no where near the tip speed of lycoming or the noise.
What Box do you have ? You can likely pick up a used box to try cheaper than
new gears to try. If you no like just peddle on Ebay.
Cruise speed on amphibs with 3 to 1 is 85 mph and was barely 80 with mph
with 2.62s on a good day.
Slower turning prop has worked better for me and I guess it does give more torque
to the prop for take off and at the speeds we fly at. I should try them
again on wheels and see what happens.
> 2.62 How can it loose performance? You should be spinning the prop a bit faster.
Most guys that tried 3:1 said they went back to 2.62... I cant say as I have
never tried the 3:1. Were you swinging a longer prop at 3:1?
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135441#135441
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
With the IFA I set it at minimum pitch (high pitch blades) that gives me about
6150 to 6250 on the take off run, as soon as I break water and pick the nose up
it jumps to 6400 so I start adding pitch to keep RPM and EGT under control.
In cruise I set power and prop to give me 5800 and 1100 EGT. This works out
to a fuel burn of about 5 gallons and hour and 70 knots GS depending on wind.
I have heard arguments that the 3 blade WARP pulls harder than the IVO If the 72"
is comparable or slightly better than the WARP I would really like to try it
out. I cant justify the money at this time for a 912, but damn... I sure would
like to fly one on floats to see what the extra power would do, I am betting
that the extra 20 ponies would make one hellofa bird out of this..
As it is with the 582, full fuel, gear (decoys guns etc) and just me it is one
heck of a plane, but add another 200# passenger and she is lacking on the water.
I normally have to make a gear run solo, then come back and pick up the passenger.
this is to be expected as I am asking a bit more than she was designed
to do...... Once in the air it is fine, but getting from water to air takes
a bit of room.
All in all, I am not sure one can ask for a better plane for the money spent (
you could ask but would be stupid for doing so), and for dang sure you cant have
more fun than this and keep your clothes on!
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135516#135516
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
hmm... a tad... that would be just enough to give me unlimited vertical and the
ability to hover and torque roll my Avid the same way I can with my 33% Extra
330..
Really, I would think that another 10-15 HP would do it, but I don't like the idea
of paying that much for a 912... I can have two avids or KF's in the air with
582's for the price of one 912 alone if I get a basket case as I have done
and re-build it..
I would not think of taking conventional floats the places I go with the Full lotus...one
stick or rock and you are done with conventionals...
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135554#135554
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OT New float flying vid |
My Aerocet conventional composite floats are a bit lighter than the Full
Lotus but as you say they are not good for the real shoal water. Most of
our bog holes are around two or three feet deep and true bogs don't have any
wood in it. I expect the most dangerous place to land on floats is any area
that has been flooded within the last fifty years... No one really knows the
depth of the water or what's under the surface!
I just got a used 912 that is reported to have only 175 hr on it. Of course
I have to get the engine mount from John Mc and no doubt there will be mods
to the cowlings and new controls. I have planned to move the header tank
back behind the seat and the battery there too. The space behind the panel
the small header tank now occupies is where I'll mount the oil reservoir.
Because I'll be using a factory built mount, Transport Canada (TC) is going
to allow me to do an amendment to my W&B and a three minute climb test that
I must be able to make something like 600'... The 582 with the old tach
which read 20% too high and time-exed prop could still beat that climb.
After that I'll be "tethered" to a 25KT distance for 25 hr.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:38 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: OT New float flying vid
>
>
>
> hmm... a tad... that would be just enough to give me
> unlimited vertical and the ability to hover and torque roll
> my Avid the same way I can with my 33% Extra 330..
>
> Really, I would think that another 10-15 HP would do it, but
> I don't like the idea of paying that much for a 912... I can
> have two avids or KF's in the air with 582's for the price of
> one 912 alone if I get a basket case as I have done and re-build it..
>
> I would not think of taking conventional floats the places I
> go with the Full lotus...one stick or rock and you are done
> with conventionals...
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135554#135554
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
Leonard,
A light Kitfox (or Avid) with even an 80 hp 912 on a set of non-amphib full
lotus floats would be an awesome airplane.
I've flown a 582 Model IV on 1260 Lotus floats, and my IV-1200 on Aerocet
amphibs so I know what you could expect. While the 582 airplane is a fun,
good performing airplane (the one I flew had a warp 3 blade, but performance
was as you pretty much describe yours, maybe slightly less as no IFA on the
warp), the 912 with a IVO IFA will give you supercub or better performance
loaded or not (assuming you keep that IVO IFA on it - it definitely helps
get off the water). Mine is a HEAVY (776 pounds on the floats) model IV
amphib, but yet will get off the water at 1200 pounds (2 people, 3 hrs fuel,
and light on gear) in about 13-14 seconds on a 85 degree day, 5 mph wind, at
1200 msl. And it will easily cruise at 100+ mph. Tops out at 124 mph. I
do think the lotus floats would slow it down a bit (10 mph would be my
guess), but being non-amphib and obviously much lighter, would be a
rocketship off the water.
I like the Lotus floats for the same reasons you do, the ability to bump
into things without much concern. My dislikes are rough water capability,
step turning capability, general handling issues compared to a hard float,
Utraviolet damage issues, air pressue monitoring, and no storage
compartments. But they do work on our little planes.
Here are a few pics showing what my Fox does (I can't download or upload
video on my chipmunk powered internet dial up service, so this is the best I
can do...)
I wish I could as your video sounds cool!
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul Amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New float flying vid
>
> With the IFA I set it at minimum pitch (high pitch blades) that gives me
> about 6150 to 6250 on the take off run, as soon as I break water and pick
> the nose up it jumps to 6400 so I start adding pitch to keep RPM and EGT
> under control. In cruise I set power and prop to give me 5800 and 1100
> EGT. This works out to a fuel burn of about 5 gallons and hour and 70
> knots GS depending on wind.
>
> I have heard arguments that the 3 blade WARP pulls harder than the IVO If
> the 72" is comparable or slightly better than the WARP I would really like
> to try it out. I cant justify the money at this time for a 912, but
> damn... I sure would like to fly one on floats to see what the extra power
> would do, I am betting that the extra 20 ponies would make one hellofa
> bird out of this..
>
> As it is with the 582, full fuel, gear (decoys guns etc) and just me it is
> one heck of a plane, but add another 200# passenger and she is lacking on
> the water. I normally have to make a gear run solo, then come back and
> pick up the passenger. this is to be expected as I am asking a bit more
> than she was designed to do...... Once in the air it is fine, but getting
> from water to air takes a bit of room.
>
> All in all, I am not sure one can ask for a better plane for the money
> spent ( you could ask but would be stupid for doing so), and for dang sure
> you cant have more fun than this and keep your clothes on!
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135516#135516
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Kitfox Flight Sim |
Occasionally I do a bit of flying the kitfox on Flight Sim I have a model
IV that I've adjusted to fly like a 582 with the right sounds too and of
course changed the colour schemes to match my own plane. The only problem
is my plane is on floats and I haven's seen anything like the Kitfox on
floats. Has any one written one??
I have tried to convert a Super Cub to a Kitfox but can't get the ailerons
right.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing in Treetops |
| From: | "Bob" <dswaim1119(at)comcast.net> |
The alternative is the one left unspoken, and that is to leave yourself an "out."
The fun of flying Kitfoxes is flying low for a lot of people. Unfortunately,
they are combining that with home-spun fuel and electrical systems. If you're
going to fly low enough to limit your choices, accept the potential consequences.
For most cases, the "out" is simply to have enough altitude to have a choice of
where you're going to have a forced landing. Think of how far you can glide
with an additional thousand feet of altitude. Or, if need be, with 2000 or even
5000 feet. It's like buying insurance in that it gives you gliding distance
and the probability of SOME field increases by calculating the difference between
the radius (your range) and the area of a circle (available landing sites).
Bob
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135601#135601
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Flight Sim |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
what flight sim? any chance of getting a copy of the plane files? I like to play
on the sim while I am at work for 2 weeks and would like to get your plane.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135603#135603
________________________________________________________________________________
I did not see any responses to the question on the Czech Floats.
While we are on the Float topic (and by the way great video!) lets chat
about these Czech floats if anyone has an opinion.
gc
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don & Dianne
Usher
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: czech floats
I have a model 111, 582, on Full Lotus floats. Plane empty on wheels weighs
496 lbs, I weigh 150. Not really happy with Full Lotus and have to have
amphibs. Looking to buy Czech amphibs. Anybody with this combination? and if
so, how is water performance with two people. Thanks.
Don
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kitfox-List
1:29 PM
12:07 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com> |
I really have no information to add to the float debate since I have such
limited knowledge of the diffrent brands and styles of floats. My experience
consists of about 10 hours in a supercub on EDO 2000's and have not landed mine
in the water yet (maybe this weekend). I'll keep the list posted as to the
performance of the Czech floats.
Kevin Cozik
Series 6
914 turbo
On Fri Sep 21 10:26 , 'Gregory Cronin' <greg@case-assembly.com> sent:
>
>
>I did not see any responses to the question on the Czech
>Floats.
>
>While we are on the Float topic (and by the way great
>video!) lets chat about these Czech floats if anyone has an
>opinion.
>
>gc
>
>
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don &
>Dianne Usher
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:40 AM
>To:
>kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: czech
>floats
>
>
>I have a model 111, 582, on Full Lotus floats.
>Plane empty on wheels weighs 496 lbs, I weigh 150. Not really happy with Full
>Lotus and have to have amphibs. Looking to buy Czech amphibs. Anybody with this
>combination? and if so, how is water performance with two people.
>Thanks.
>Don
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-
List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>size=2>Version: 7.5.487 /
>
>
>9/20/2007 12:07 PM
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: czech floats |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
some Kitfox Videos here
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=kitfoxflyer
floats , skis and water.
gotta be a few thousand Kitfoxes flying and only 22 vidoes from me plus a few
others on you tube.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135659#135659
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
| From: | "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
if you want a DVD PM me your addy..I have lots of real nice Alaska scenery and
flying, it would be nothing to burn to DVD..
AS much as I hate the thought of spending the money on it.. I may have to seriously
look for a 912.. good deal on 3 of them on Ebay right now..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135661#135661
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Flight Sim |
| From: | "Rhino" <bsimmons(at)rainbowdata.com> |
akflyer wrote:
> what flight sim? any chance of getting a copy of the plane files? I like to
play on the sim while I am at work for 2 weeks and would like to get your plane.
I'd like that too.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135667#135667
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re Kitfox-List:: South East Kitfox Owners |
| From: | "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier(at)sciatl.com> |
There is a fly-in to Triple Tree airport SC00 next weekend. I hope to
go up Friday afternoon and camp under the wing. Any one local going?
-----Original Message-----
From: Napier, Mark
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Re Kitfox-List:: South East Kitfox Owners
Hey Luis,
34A would make a nice Saturday there and back trip.
I don't think I could reasonably x-country to FFA from Atlanta with a
582, but I could trailer it. I'm from Greenville, NC, and have wanted
an excuse to haul my plane up there and fly around the home patch.
There are a couple of grass strips in the area where I might be able to
trailer into. A beach landing would be the excuse I need to put on
those KingFox tires.
Hey Ken,
How do you get from EWN to FFA? The area is sewn up with Restricted
airspaces.
Flying up the coast from Wilmington looks fun but there's R-5306D with
no way to go around it. Looking it up on sua.faa.gov says it operates
24/7 from the surface up. But I do see a private airport on a golf
course in that space so there must be some method of flying through. Do
you know the procedure?
Cheers,
Mark Napier
Subject: Re Kitfox-List:: South East Kitfox Owners
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Kem Dunnebacke wrote:
> Morning, i read that there is interest in a Kitty Hawk fly in? I am
Based at
Bayboro NC and know there area it is in route for Kitty Hawk. 10 mls
west is EWN,
class D, fuel, car,logging........LETS GO its a ocean flight with many
wonderful
views, OBX is on the way with a phone call we get also get fuel.a great
place for brunch! i can have local EAA help if needed, i would be glad
to help
organize incoming pilots. info:252-638-5828 h 252-229-8200 cell
> Kem Dunnebacke N3163K kitfoxivplay(at)gmail.com
Whoohoo! Lots of great suggestions. No matter what happens, it's already
raised
my spirits just to have this many people respond. So far, I count seven
interested
pilots and almost as many suggested destinations :-). They all sound
interesting
but Kitty Hawk is one that really stands out for me. The thought of
a flock of Kitfoxes gathering at the birthplace of aviation gets my
heart pumping.
What do you say guys? Shall we make it Kitty Hawk?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131791#131791
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Flight Sim |
| From: | "JSD" <sctmch(at)hotmail.com> |
Oh ya me too. But someone would have to really spell it out step by step how to
do that. I sure don't have a clue of how to alter a cub to a kitfox or to build
a virtual plane for SimX. I kind of knew it was possible but it sure would
be cool to have some guide to make a 1,2,3,4,5,6,or7 on the program. I'd even
buy a new computer that might handle it. If someone could make a download I'd
sure buy it. Make my lay-over weekends on the road go a lot quicker! :D
--------
Scott Denniston
K-7/ no power yet
65% or so complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135701#135701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?= <geir_olav(at)c2i.net> |
| Subject: | 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
I am replacing the single leaf tail spring with a 3 leaf. But I do not
know the size of the bolt that is installed. (then I need a =BD=94
longer
bolt ) now. Think it is a 5/16=94 bolt, but cant remember. Anybody that
know the original size of the bolt on my Kitfox 4. (of course I can go
over to the airport, dismantle and find out, but if one of you know the
length and size, I would be thankful).
Will just replace the spring BEFORE it breaks.
Thanks
Geir Olav =D8ien
Kitfox 4
Jabiru 2200.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
Just a reminder to all you Kitfoxers, the first East Coast Kitfox Gathering
is scheduled for October 13th & 14th! day one will be at First Flight and
day two at Campbell Airfield in Va.
Just wanted to send another reminder. Hope all can attend.
Ray
_________________________________________________________________
Its the Windows Live Hotmail you love on your phone!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx?WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Horne" <glennflys(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
I live just cross the Carolina Virginia State line but I don't
know where Campbell Airfield is. Can some one tell me?
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
Subject: Kitfox-List: East Coast Kitfox Gathering!
>
> Just a reminder to all you Kitfoxers, the first East Coast Kitfox
> Gathering is scheduled for October 13th & 14th! day one will be at First
> Flight and day two at Campbell Airfield in Va.
>
>
> Just wanted to send another reminder. Hope all can attend.
>
> Ray
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It's the Windows LiveT Hotmail you love - on your phone!
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/mobilehotmail/default.mspx?WT.mc_ID=MobileHMTagline2
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
> I am replacing the single leaf tail spring with a 3 leaf. But I do not know the
size of the bolt that is installed. (then I need a longer bolt ) now. Think
it is a 5/16 bolt, but cant remember. Anybody that know the original size of
the bolt on my Kitfox 4.
Grir, I have a Classic 4 with one main leaf and one helper leaf. My fuselage bolt
goes through 2 spring leaves. It is a AN5-20 (5/16 X 2 inch). The rear bolt
goes through one leaf and the Mall tail wheel bracket, it is a AN7-10A (7/16
X 1 inch). The two smaller bolts that secure the tail spring clamp catch 2
leaves. They are AN3-10A (3/16 X 1 inch).
If you are installing 2 main leaves plus a helper leaf you probably should add
2 (1/4 inch) to each of the above AN dash numbers.
Now, did I help or confuse you?
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135828#135828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
| From: | "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> |
Follow the this link to see the Campbell airfield on the Washington DC chart:
http://skyvector.com/#25-23-3-2715-2468
I was also hoping to get a group picture at the Wright Monument at 3pm. I'm entertaining
taking the group picture and making a few coffee mugs as a souvenir
for everyone who comes. Maybe a picture of your Kitfox on the other side?
> I live just cross the Carolina Virginia State line but I don't
> know where Campbell Airfield is. Can some one tell me?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135831#135831
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
> If you are installing 2 main leaves plus a helper leaf you probably
> should add 2 (1/4 inch) to each of the above AN dash numbers.
Yes, you will have to do that, Geir. And the bad news is: the main bolt
is - as I understand it - glued inside the fuselage and you will need
to heat it for removal.
Med vennlig hilsen,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
Here is my cell 301-520-3171 call me anytime. Been to Campbell once, nice
grass roots field! great folks to.
Ray
>From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering!
>Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:40:15 -0700
>
>
>Follow the this link to see the Campbell airfield on the Washington DC
>chart:
>
>http://skyvector.com/#25-23-3-2715-2468
>
>I was also hoping to get a group picture at the Wright Monument at 3pm. I'm
>entertaining taking the group picture and making a few coffee mugs as a
>souvenir for everyone who comes. Maybe a picture of your Kitfox on the
>other side?
>
>
> > I live just cross the Carolina Virginia State line but I don't
> > know where Campbell Airfield is. Can some one tell me?
>
>
>--------
>Luis Rodriguez
>Model IV 1200
>Rotax 912UL
>Flying Weekly
>Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135831#135831
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever. Windows Live Hotmail - NOW with
5GB storage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
Depending on how the original builder built the plane, this bolt may
or may not be glued in place. In building mine I glued (structural
adhesive...Hysol 9460) the bolt in place, and when I needed to remove
it for the thicker spring/longer bolt, it was a simple matter to
shield the fabric with a metal plate with a hole drilled in it, then
heat the bolt on the threads. The heat will travel up the bolt,
soften the adhesive and allow the bolt to be pushed up into the
fuselage. I have an inspection hole nearby to facilitate work done in
this area. If you don't have this hole, I think you'll have to remove
the hort. stab to reach the area....maybe not.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 23, 2007, at 3:32 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
>> If you are installing 2 main leaves plus a helper leaf you
>> probably should add 2 (1/4 inch) to each of the above AN dash
>> numbers.
>
> Yes, you will have to do that, Geir. And the bad news is: the main
> bolt is - as I understand it - glued inside the fuselage and you
> will need to heat it for removal.
>
> Med vennlig hilsen,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Geir,
I changed mine to a 3 leaf recently and used the existing 5/16" bolt without an
issue. As long ass you got close to 1/4" extra bolt you should be ok. I had
a spacer between the fuselage and the old spring and I removed it.
The 7/16 bolt on tailwheel will likely be too short as it now goes through 2 leaves
rather than one. I took off the washer and used it anyhow but the bolt is
not through the self locking nut far enough. Thanks for the reminder to replace
it before it falls off :)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135900#135900
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Horne" <glennflys(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
Sorry i can't fine Cmpbell Airfield. Ben here all my life (73) years and
never heard of Campbell Airfield.
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering!
>
> Follow the this link to see the Campbell airfield on the Washington DC
> chart:
>
> http://skyvector.com/#25-23-3-2715-2468
>
> I was also hoping to get a group picture at the Wright Monument at 3pm.
> I'm entertaining taking the group picture and making a few coffee mugs as
> a souvenir for everyone who comes. Maybe a picture of your Kitfox on the
> other side?
>
>
>> I live just cross the Carolina Virginia State line but I don't
>> know where Campbell Airfield is. Can some one tell me?
>
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135831#135831
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
Glenn sez:
>Sorry i can't fine Cmpbell Airfield. Ben here all my life (73) years and
>never heard of Campbell Airfield.
Looks like it is 9VG in Weirwood, VA northeast of Norfolk, on the 050
radial of the Cape Charles (CCV) VOR.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Horne" <glennflys(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
OK 9VG . Will look it up.
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering!
>
> Glenn sez:
>
>>Sorry i can't fine Cmpbell Airfield. Ben here all my life (73) years and
>>never heard of Campbell Airfield.
>
> Looks like it is 9VG in Weirwood, VA northeast of Norfolk, on the 050
> radial of the Cape Charles (CCV) VOR.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?= <geir_olav(at)c2i.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
I built the plane, and i made a inspection hole close to the tail spring
bolt. I did not glue the bolt in place, only used mastinox on it (anti
corrosive). So it is no problem to remove and get access to the bolt.
Thanks for the tips.
Geir Olav ien
Kitfox IV Jabiru 2200
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] P vegne av Lynn
Matteson
Sendt: 23. september 2007 14:36
Til: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Emne: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size
Depending on how the original builder built the plane, this bolt may
or may not be glued in place. In building mine I glued (structural
adhesive...Hysol 9460) the bolt in place, and when I needed to remove
it for the thicker spring/longer bolt, it was a simple matter to
shield the fabric with a metal plate with a hole drilled in it, then
heat the bolt on the threads. The heat will travel up the bolt,
soften the adhesive and allow the bolt to be pushed up into the
fuselage. I have an inspection hole nearby to facilitate work done in
this area. If you don't have this hole, I think you'll have to remove
the hort. stab to reach the area....maybe not.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 23, 2007, at 3:32 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
>> If you are installing 2 main leaves plus a helper leaf you
>> probably should add 2 (1/4 inch) to each of the above AN dash
>> numbers.
>
> Yes, you will have to do that, Geir. And the bad news is: the main
> bolt is - as I understand it - glued inside the fuselage and you
> will need to heat it for removal.
>
> Med vennlig hilsen,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Burke" <jeburke94je(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | KITFOX FOR SALEi |
HELLO TO KITFOX LIST MEMBERS,
FIRST OF ALL I;D LIKE TO SAY JIM HAS ENJOYED ALL THE
VALUABLE INFORMATION ,AND FUN HE HAS HAD CHATTING BACK AND FORTH WITH
ALL OF YOU.
LAST JUNE JIM SUFFERED A VERY SERIOUS STROKE. WHILE HE HAS
IMPROVED A LOT SINCE THAT TIME HE STILL HAS SOME MAJOR HEALTH PROBLEMS.
HE IS UNABLE TO USE HIS LEFT ARM OR HAND. HE CAN WALK A LITTLE WITH THE
AID OF A BRACE AND QUAD CANE FOR HIS LEFT LEG, AND HIS VISION WAS
SEVERELY DAMAGED. NEEDLESS TO SAY THIS HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT YEAR
FOR ALL OF US BOTH PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.
WE HAVE GIVE IT A LOT OF THOUGHT AND FINALLY DECIDED IT IS
TIME TO SELL JIM;S KITFOX SINCE HIS HEALTH NO LONGER PERMITS HIS FLYING.
AS YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS WAS A VERY HARD DECISION FOR HIM BECAUSE AS WITH
ALL OF YOU I;M SURE FLYING WAS HIS PASSI ON.
HIS KITFOX IS A MODEL 4-1200. IT IS WHITE AND RED,IT HAS THE
BUNGE CORD MAIN GEAR,A 582 ROTAX ENGINE,THE ENTIRE PLANE HAS LESS THAN
400 HRS. ON IT. IT IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION,AND NO DAMAGE. FOR SERIOUS
ENQUIRIES YOU MAY CALL AREA CODE 812-597-0901.
THE PLANE IS NOW AT A PRIVATE AIR STRIP(9IN7)
THANKS IN
ADVANCE ASKING PRICE IS $24,000.00
JAMES AND VICKIE
BURKE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | External Alternator for 912S on Model 7? |
Does anyone on the board have experience with the Rotax external alternator
and the 912S/Model 7 combination? I'm nearing the completion of Kitfox 7 and
will need more electrical power than is available with the internal
alternator. I'm wondering if the alternator will fit under the cowl.
Thanks for the help,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | External Alternator for 912S on Model 7? |
I have one on my model IV! if you need one, I now a company in Canada that
offers one at a decent price.
Ray
>From: CDE2fly(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: External Alternator for 912S on Model 7?
>Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:34:35 EDT
>
>Does anyone on the board have experience with the Rotax external alternator
>and the 912S/Model 7 combination? I'm nearing the completion of Kitfox 7
>and
>will need more electrical power than is available with the internal
>alternator. I'm wondering if the alternator will fit under the cowl.
>
>Thanks for the help,
>
>Chris
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Discover sweet stuff waiting for you at the Messenger Cafe. Claim your
treat today!
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: External Alternator for 912S on Model 7? |
RAY Gignac wrote:
>
> I have one on my model IV! if you need one, I now a company in Canada
> that offers one at a decent price.
>
> Ray
Is that with the round cowl?
>> Does anyone on the board have experience with the Rotax external
>> alternator
>> and the 912S/Model 7 combination? I'm nearing the completion of
>> Kitfox 7 and
>> will need more electrical power than is available with the internal
>> alternator. I'm wondering if the alternator will fit under the cowl.
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: External Alternator for 912S on Model 7? |
| From: | "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com> |
just put one on my M 7 ,fits under cowl no problem but needs some trimming of the
flange area to clear the pulley. contact me off line for photos
will have cowl back from paint next week
david(at)kelm.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136023#136023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps(at)tznet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New float flying vid |
Hi Leonard,
I was so desparate to see your video I watched it on someone elses pc this
weekend (smile), so I don't need you to burn a DVD. Nice video. Does a
good job showing where the full lotus floats are really nice to have. That
little 582 Kitfox also looks to perform pretty good from what I could tell
by your video.
You'd like the 912.
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New float flying vid
>
> if you want a DVD PM me your addy..I have lots of real nice Alaska scenery
> and flying, it would be nothing to burn to DVD..
> AS much as I hate the thought of spending the money on it.. I may have to
> seriously look for a 912.. good deal on 3 of them on Ebay right now..
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135661#135661
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Took off 30 mins ago , got to 100 feet and all windows fogged over.
open door flew into sun till it dis-appeared.
Landed 15 mins later........ 200 feet from hangar on grass strip and "CLUNK"
tail drops..... goes through my head - could it be my three leaf spring just
gave in? OR did that BOLT that did not go through the self locking not far
enough just fall out ?
Regardless-------- I stomped on brakes and hit throttle and got tail off ground
and kept it off till i got to hangar then even turned it while tail still in
air and shut down.........
Tailwheel bolt had fallen out ------ >> NO DAMAGE
oh well put another in later :)
Happy ending but i should have read and REACTED to my post YESTERDAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The 7/16 bolt on tailwheel will likely be too short as it now goes through 2
leaves rather than one. I took off the washer and used it anyhow but the bolt
is not through the self locking nut far enough. Thanks for the reminder to replace
it before it falls off
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136065#136065
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
another bolt put in
test flew
seems ok now
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136082#136082
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Why glue? - Was tail spring bolt size |
This and previous discussions have convinced me to replace my (unbroken) single
leaf this winter. So I'm wondering: Given the problems experienced by many with
broken tail springs, why would anyone glue this bolt in place to start with?
Factory recommendation?
Geir Olav ien wrote:
I built the plane, and i made a inspection hole close to the tail spring
bolt. I did not glue the bolt in place, only used mastinox on it (anti
corrosive). So it is no problem to remove and get access to the bolt.
Thanks for the tips.
Geir Olav ien
Kitfox IV Jabiru 2200
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] P vegne av Lynn
Matteson
Sendt: 23. september 2007 14:36
Til: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Emne: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size
Depending on how the original builder built the plane, this bolt may
or may not be glued in place. In building mine I glued (structural
adhesive...Hysol 9460) the bolt in place, and when I needed to remove
it for the thicker spring/longer bolt, it was a simple matter to
shield the fabric with a metal plate with a hole drilled in it, then
heat the bolt on the threads. The heat will travel up the bolt,
soften the adhesive and allow the bolt to be pushed up into the
fuselage. I have an inspection hole nearby to facilitate work done in
this area. If you don't have this hole, I think you'll have to remove
the hort. stab to reach the area....maybe not.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 23, 2007, at 3:32 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Sep 23, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
>> If you are installing 2 main leaves plus a helper leaf you
>> probably should add 2 (1/4 inch) to each of the above AN dash
>> numbers.
>
> Yes, you will have to do that, Geir. And the bad news is: the main
> bolt is - as I understand it - glued inside the fuselage and you
> will need to heat it for removal.
>
> Med vennlig hilsen,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
________________________________________________________________________________
Is anyone here flying the Czech floats currently?
If so please let us all know what you think.
Thanks!
gc
1:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john oakley" <john(at)leptron.com> |
Me too,
I sold my aerocet amphibs to Dan Denny a few years ago and really want to
replace them next year. The Czech floats seem fairly strong, though not for
rough beaching.
John Oakley
Fox 4 long and short
Cap - 912ul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gregory Cronin
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: czech floats
Is anyone here flying the Czech floats currently?
If so please let us all know what you think.
Thanks!
gc
1:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why glue? - Was tail spring bolt size |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
> This and previous discussions have convinced me to replace my (unbroken) single
leaf this winter. So I'm wondering: Given the problems experienced by many
with broken tail springs, why would anyone glue this bolt in place to start with?
Factory recommendation?
The builder's manual recommeds epoxying the bolt because it is difficult to access
it after the plane is assembled. My opinion...now...is that an inspection
ring located to access that bolt is a better idea.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136133#136133
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
Hope it's a longer one and "in safety".
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:12 AM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size
>
>
>
> another bolt put in
>
> test flew
> seems ok now
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136082#136082
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 leaf tail spring. Bolt size |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Noel, did not have a AN bolt so i used a grade 5 bolts course thread with a lock
washer.
Then After it done I drilled it and put in a cotter pin LOL
not AC 43.11 but it just a tailwheel....
next order i get a 7/16 " bolt the right length :)
maybe it will bust again by then > ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136155#136155
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com> |
Yes, I'm flying the 1650s with my first water landings yesterday. I landed
about
9am yesterday morning in no wind and glassy conditions. They felt great touching
down and there was not much tendency to pitch forward considering the smooth water
condition. As I can off the step, the nose came up like normal and then settle
in
fairly flat......maybe a little too flat as some water made its way over the front
of the float. Idle taxing I could see water building up in front of the float
which
I blamed on the large front cavity where the nosewheel sits. Just for kicks I
wanted to see how long it would take to get on step before I turned around to depart
but it could not climb up on step no matter what I tried. Now I'm concerned about
how the floats are sitting in the water (nearly flat). To make a long story short,
I ended up adding about 10 lbs to the rear compartment of each float to get off
the
water. First try it was up on step almost instantly but the wind and water
conditions had also changed to 10 mph. Multiple takeoffs and landings with great
results. Fast off the water and very smooth on!
I'll try again in the next few days but I'm hoping I won't have to keep the
extra
weight in the floats and that the reason the water came over the top was more of
an
amphib problem than a rigging problem.
Any thoughts?
Kevin Cozik
S6 Czech 1650s
914 turbo
Lansing Michigan
On Mon Sep 24 11:46 , 'Gregory Cronin' <greg@case-assembly.com> sent:
>
>Is anyone here flying the Czech floats currently?
>
>If so please let us all know what you think.
>
>Thanks!
>gc
>
>1:53 PM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Kitfox Gathering! |
| From: | "pilotpat" <pkelly20(at)comcast.net> |
located at (P96) which is Jersey Shore, PA we have 2 kitfoxers there (1) avid
and there are a few other guys not far from there that also have kitfoxes.....its
a nice over 3000 ft level grass strip kept really good. North Central PA
just East of Lock Haven , PA (LHV) the piper cub home.and West of Williamport (IPT)
hope this helps , where u located? I can email too so as not to mess up
this site. should be on my signature
--------
Pilotpat
Kitfox Classic IV
Jabiru 2200
Williamsport , PA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136222#136222
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avid Mk-IV project on Barnstormers |
| From: | "dholly" <oue191(at)yahoo.com> |
An update to this posting...
This post/ad generated several dozen inquiries and a handful of offers. However,
many, many folks have inquired whether I would sell the project WITH my new-in-crate
85hp Jab2200, Jab/Mk-IV engine mount and Jab cowl.
I originally intended to keep these items for another project currently in the
works. However, now that I've decided to put that project directly on floats,
I have emailed all responding to the ad that I am open to offers on the entire
turnkey 'Javid' Mk-IV project.
Figured it was only fair to give the heads up to members here before revising the
Barnstormers listing or posting up on FleaBay. Contact off list please if interested,
thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136353#136353
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Graichen" <n10pg(at)neo.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RE: NSI Isolation Module replacement |
Hello Harold:
About a year ago I notified the list that I had developed a direct
replacement for the NSI ignition isolation modules, and that I could build a
batch of twelve, if there would be enough interest. There was and I did.
However they are all sold and I have no more.
If there were enough interest to justify building another batch of twelve
(or more), I would be willing to do so. I sold them for $ 450.00 each, not
including shipping and COD charges. I assume that I can still purchase the
necessary required components for the same price as before, but am not
certain.
Anybody interested, please let me know.
Peter Graichen
http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
________________________________
From: Harold Lanfear [mailto:hlanfear(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September, 2007 14:30
Subject: NSI Isolation Module replacement
Peter,
I saw a note on the NSI Yahoo group that said you built and sold
replacements for the NSI isolation modules. I have an NSI EA-81 in my
Kitfox with 775 hours on it and pretty sure I'm having a failure (same
symptoms as the first time, just prior to NSI going under). If you are
still building them, I would buy at least two and replace both modules.
Thanks, Harold Lanfear
West Grove, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest |
| From: | "Michel Dierick" <michel.dierick(at)skynet.be> |
Hi everone,
When I made my landing sunday, I noticed I could not steer my Kitfox either left
or right and was unable to vacate the runway.
So, I stopped the engine, looked behind and saw the front bolt of the tailwheelspring
had broken. Of course, the rudder rested on the tailwheel, causing some
very little damage there.
I was horrified when I made a closer inspection with my camera.
The picture showed that not only the bolt was broken but a piece of the tubing
was also broken off.
I have no idea how this tube was exactly, so can anybody send me some good clear
pictures of this tail section (before covering) so that I can see how the fuselage
should be normally ?
Many thanks in advance.
--------
Flying, yes, but fly safely
Michel "TheDailyFly"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136409#136409
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest |
> From: Michel Dierick [michel.dierick(at)skynet.be]
> So, I stopped the engine, looked behind and saw the front bolt of the
> tailwheelspring had broken.
Wow! That's really strange, Michel! I can't imagine how that bolt could break.
Was it pulled through? Sheared? How about the bracket and the two bolts that hold
the spring in place? Do you think it happened by an up-down force or by a
side force?
Sorry, I can't help you with the inside view, I didn't built my aircraft myself,
I am just puzzled but the breaking of that bolt. I didn't think it was possible
under normal circumstances. But then ... I still have lot to learn.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200