Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-fy
June 21, 2008 - June 29, 2008
flutter caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once
before. The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of
joints so that may be normal.
Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
external counterweights are installed
on the far outboard side.
All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple
of the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up
and down together with the wing.
Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much
of a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support
in my opinion.
Any ideas what else I should look at?
Thanks for any advice-
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
>Chris
>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo
is
>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however, you should run a
"C"
>or "E" reduction unit, probably with a 3 to 1 ratio and follow
their
>install directions . The A And B reduction boxes are just too
light.
>
>Gary 4276M
>582
-
-
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Your controls WILL be considerably more sensitive than the 172. My
instructor used to tell me that all that money that I spent on flight
training in a 172 just made my feet lazy, and now it was time to wake
them up! He calls the Kitfox a "thoroughbred."
I have a Speedster, so mine is probably a bit more sensitive than
yours, but even so, be ready for quickness as a result of control input.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:04 AM, Kyle wrote:
>
> Hello again, :)
>
> Thank you very much for the numbers. With these I feel a lot more
> comfortable going forth.
> And thanks for the advice on the sensitivity of the control inputs.
> From what I had read in the past, I figured the controls were
> considerably more sensitive than my 172.
> By the way my plane is not the speedster version.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188859#188859
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kirk hull" <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Something else you might want to do is get a copy of "kitfox pilot guide"
by Edward S Downs
This book has aprox info for the # you are wanting as well as a lot of other
good info.
I believe you can get it through Kitfox inc. If you don't have their #
you can just EMAIL john Mcbean on this list
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAY Gignac
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help
I don't want to scare you, the Fox is fun to fly but very sensitive on the
controls! it is very easy to over correct. Stall around 38, cruise depends
90 to 95 is best but you will se 100 to 115, my approach speed were at 60 no
flaps, never use them. I lift off at 45, I find wheel landins work best.
Ray
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help
> From: kylehdunn(at)bellsouth.net
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:18:03 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I recently acquired my Kitfox IV 1200 w/912 UL. I haven't had it in the
air yet. I needed to synchronize the carburetors and bleed the brakes. That
done I'm ready to proceed. I'm a private pilot but don't have my TD
endorsement yet. I didn't receive any performance numbers from the previous
owner. Numbers like stall speeds, take-off speeds, approach to landing
speeds, cruise speeds, take-off roll distances, landing roll distances,
climb rates or any of the V speeds (Vx, Vy etc.).
> I was wondering if anyone could forward some of their numbers so at least
I might have something just to use as a reference until I can establish my
own. I have been taxiing up and down the grass strip, slowly building my
speed. I've worked up to flying the tail and letting it settle back down
while maintaining good directional control. I've had a Tail Dragger
instructor with me some of the time but he also would like to at least see
some numbers before we go on with more training.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> I understand the numbers would not be specific to my plane, only for
reference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188772#188772
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===================
>
>
>
_____
The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn
More <http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
As a ham radio operator I am, in theory at least, always trying to get the
ultimate out on my radios. This is not necessary in small planes. That is
the reason I totally agree with you on the necessity of a ground plane.
I've even used handhelds inside the 'Fox on a duck with decent results.
As an AME (Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) intern (Canada) I really
appreciate a nice clean installation and a nice clean interconnect diagram
for the scarce occasion that things go west J. Of course with only an
antenna connection there isn't a diagram needed.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size?
Noel -
Ok, so we agree - The main things would be good clean installation, and
muttered incantations (very important)? :)
Consulting the RF gods, and ground plane mods - Can be considered
optional?
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188804#188804
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
| From: | "Kyle" <kylehdunn(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hey Lynn,
We meet again. I don't know if you remember or not but we met at Gilbertsville-Kentucky
Dam Airport when you were on your way to Hondo.
I was admiring your Kitfox when you came back to the airport to get some supplies
for the evening. We just talked briefly, you were in a hurry because your ride
was waiting.
Kirk,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have already ordered that Pilot's Guide.
It should be here today or the first of next week.
Thanks,
--------
Kyle Dunn
Eddyville, Kentucky
Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
1978 Cessna 172 N
American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
Rotorway Exec.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188884#188884
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
| From: | "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com> |
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can be used
with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on it and use the
2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems
, with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Off Topic: Space Station----truly awesome pictures |
Wow!
After you open the link be sure and hit the F11 button, makes the pictures
high def.!
Some of these picture will take your breath away...
They are the best I have seen.
These are just in from the current (just landed) space mission. These pixs
are so good that it makes one feel as if you are there taking the pictures.
Maximize your viewing area by hitting the F11 button and enjoy.....
-http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASA%20pix.htm
-
-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Hi Kyle-
I didn't remember your name, but I sure remember meeting you....that
was a real coincidence running into a "lister" there from the Kitfox
group. As I recall you were keeping a Cessna, I think it was, at the
Dam airport, right? Sorry I couldn't have stayed and talked more, but
I didn't want to inconvenience the shuttle driver who was kind enough
to bring me back to the plane for another load of camping necessities
from my plane. Man, that sure is a nice facility they have
there....free shuttle service whenever you need it (within their
hours of operation), a nice campground, and friendly folks. As luck
would have it, when they drove me around to look at prospective
campsites, I saw one that looked just fine and it was close to the
general store, and it turned out to be site number......(drum
roll)....3! Ta Da....
Nice reminiscing with ya, Kyle.
If any of you traveling folks want a nice place to fly into and stay,
this place has tent sites, as well as rooms and maybe cabins...not
sure of the cabins, though. My tent site was $18 for the night, and
no tie-down fee, either. The campground is about a mile or so away
from the airport, so the noise isn't much of a factor. And when it
came tim for me to leave, a call brought a shuttle right to my site,
even before they were officially open for business....wait....maybe
they were just glad to get rid of me. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Kyle wrote:
>
> Hey Lynn,
>
> We meet again. I don't know if you remember or not but we met at
> Gilbertsville-Kentucky Dam Airport when you were on your way to Hondo.
> I was admiring your Kitfox when you came back to the airport to get
> some supplies for the evening. We just talked briefly, you were in
> a hurry because your ride was waiting.
>
> Kirk,
> Thanks for the suggestion. I have already ordered that Pilot's Guide.
> It should be here today or the first of next week.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Interesting....is this because of the harmonics that would be set up
using a 3-blade with a 3:1 ratio? That is, the same blade hitting the
same cylinder every third time around? I seem to recall gear-trains
being set up with an odd number of teeth...called a "hunting tooth"
to keep the same tooth from hitting a particular spot every time
around. Is this the principle?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 11:53 AM, eskflyer wrote:
>
> FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C
> drive.
>
>
> This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but
> can be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700
> hours now on it and use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1
> or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems , with the ivo
>
> --------
> FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
> 1220 Full Lotus
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "william Mills" <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Hello again Lowell -
I cannot say how heart-warming it is to hear this. Also - nice gear!
Best regards to you and Kay -
Bill Mills - Castro Valley
Chinook/912 in progress at LVK
Still lurking after all these years
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
> superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
> was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
> currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
> Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
> in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
> wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
> is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
> leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
> someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
> gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
| From: | "Kyle" <kylehdunn(at)bellsouth.net> |
Lynn,
Yes, that's where I keep my 172.
Actually the facility at Gilbertsville-Kentucky Dam Airport is a pretty neat little
secret. It is a State Park with camping facilities, cabins for rent, restaurant
facilities, a full service marina and beach with boat rentals of all sizes
including house boats, 18 hole golf course, fishing and so forth.
As a matter of fact there are other restaurants in the area that offer shuttle
service to and from the airport.
For camping on the field there is no charge but yes to camp in the park campground
there is a charge.
I had thought that this location would be a wonderful place to host a Kitfox gathering.
It's centrally located to a lot of "listers". It's close to the same
distance from your area in the north, the gulf coast to the south and the east
coast.
Good to meet with you again even if it was on the thread.
Thanks,
--------
Kyle Dunn
Eddyville, Kentucky
Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
1978 Cessna 172 N
American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
Rotorway Exec.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188942#188942
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <wingsdown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
parachute. I am serious.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Shumaker
Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
Chris
If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
was the flutter?
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message ----
From: Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
so that may be normal.
Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
external counterweights are installed
on the far outboard side.
All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
down together with the wing.
Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
my opinion.
Any ideas what else I should look at?
Thanks for any advice-
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
>Chris
>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> |
Good news Lowell!
I like the looks of your gear. And the dimensions. And the weight. I can
assure you though that the Grove gear is tough!
Randy
Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
| From: | Danny <vft(at)aol.com> |
Hi lowell,
Evern though it's been a few years since we sold our Kitfox I still lurk on the
list so as to keep tabs?on the folks I came to know through it. ?It's good to
hear you have a project going again that will some day become an airplane to
fly. I'm a firm believer that one should never go too long without an airplane
project. The landing geaar look cool
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maurice" <mo44d(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Welcome back Lowell. You have been missed.
Maurice Fitzgerald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
> superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
> was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
> currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
> original.
> Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
> in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
> wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major
> mod
> is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an
> aluminum
> leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
> someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
> gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
| From: | mdkitfox(at)aol.com |
Lowell,
Welcome back to the list.? It's great to hear you've returned to building.
Rick Weiss
Series V, still building, but there is light at the end of the tunnel!
-----Original Message-----
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 3:33 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:?
?
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying superceded
the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....?
?
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It was outfitted
for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am currently
working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original. Just finished
a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs
under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a wider stance and is a
bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod is the elimination of the
upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading
edge aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.?
?
Glad to be back and active.?
?
Lowell Fitt
[Image Removed]
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Welcome Back Lowell.- Always great to hear from you.=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
=0ATo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:33:44 P
M=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV=0A=0ATo the list:=0A=0AI am back bul
ding again.- I never thought I would do it again since flying =0Asuperced
ed the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....=0A=0AThanks
to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.- It =0Aw
as outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.- I am
=0Acurrently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the origi
nal. =0AJust finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear.-
It comes =0Ain at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that.
- It has a =0Awider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.-
- The other major mod =0Ais the elimination of the upper false ribs, repl
acing them with an aluminum =0Aleading edge from the PVC leading edge aft t
o the stringer.- I hope to =0Asomeday actually begin working on the airpl
ane.- Pictures of the landing =0Agear attached.=0A=0AGlad to be back and
active.=0A=0ALowell Fitt =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
| From: | gary.algate(at)sandvik.com |
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with C
box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur with
the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Hi Lowell-
Nice to hear from you.
It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the
shot, but it seems like there are more structural members within the
fuse of your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you
add some reinforcements?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
> airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed
> kit. It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
> available. I am currently working on all the things I learned to
> wish I had on the original. Just finished a cabane attached
> compression spring landing gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under
> the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a wider stance and
> is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod is the
> elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an
> aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the
> stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kr2(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Motor mount getting hot |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
In my Model IV the starboard lower motor mount is getting cooked. I installed
a low hour used one about 7 hours ago but it shows signs of heat damage already.
I have a new set of bushings for the mount but don't want to put them on till
I can figure out why the starboard one is getting cooked. The only theory
I can come up with is that the air in the starboard side of the cowl is not getting
refreshed, due to the fact that the exhaust on the cowl is on the port
side. The mount castle nut is about a 1/4" above the muffler on both sides but
the port side shows no sign of damage. If anyone else has had this problem
or knows a solution please let me know.
Thank you,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189025#189025
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell,
Good to have you back on the list! Did I tell you that I absolutely love
the elevator trim system you made for me? It's first class all the way! What a
difference in the aircraft!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
| From: | "Mnflyer" <gbsb2002(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Dee, I just installed the PVC type about a month ago, they are by far the easiest
and simplest to install but weigh more than the balsa wood type, I started
out going that way but ended up with the PVC ones. I really like the looks
the increase in cruise was 5 to 7 mph.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189060#189060
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net> |
| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did look the
plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very experienced Kitfox/Avid
owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going through the turtledeck
busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin bushings that have a
nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and will fix
that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a little
play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on how to get them
out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out? Will the foam cause
a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on the hinge.
They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to balance them so
they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
>hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
>was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
>In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
>that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
>installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
>from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
>less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
>caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
>The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
>turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
>little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
>and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
>Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
>and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
>down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
>very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
>A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
>up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
>ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed
>on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
>a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
>my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>>Chris
>>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
| From: | "Mnflyer" <gbsb2002(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Chris check the entire aileron linkage system any looseness or sloppiness, will
need to be removed, its most likely to be in the control linkage some where.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189072#189072
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
| From: | "Mnflyer" <gbsb2002(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Dee I see you have a Model II so the struts are most likely 7/8" like mine the
PVC is designed of 1" what I did was wrap the struts with leading edge tape
(it was 6" wide and heavy duty) about every 24" and the PVC then snapped in place
nicely. If you go that way and want any more tips on installation just e
mail me.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189074#189074
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <wingsdown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
It is my understanding that the flaperons should be neutral balance. If
you don't already have balancers on the flap might consider the. Once on
you can add and remove lead to get a neutral balance. I would check with
the Beans for sure.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern
Skies
Sent: 2008-06-22 08:53
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
-->
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did
look the plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very
experienced Kitfox/Avid owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going
through the turtledeck busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin
bushings that have a nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and
will fix that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a
little play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on
how to get them out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out?
Will the foam cause a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on
the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to
balance them so they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you
>can hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How
>fast was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea! In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs
>of steel under the engine mount and that brought everything into the
>limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. There have also been
>some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous groundloop,
>perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with
>much less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron
>flutter caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened
>once before. The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just
>some turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it
>lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final,
>straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps
>deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the
>flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving
>up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was
>short. I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together
>with a local A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed
>to be snugged up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real
>floppy but the ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch
>measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of
joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple
of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much
>of a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support
>in my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>>Chris
>>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Lawrence <1alawrence(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
Hi Guys,
I signed up here quite a while ago, but never posted. I have been looking for
a plane for about a year now, and had 2 partners bail out on me. So I am looking
for something inexpensive for myself, to use as a trainer. I missed out on
a deal yesterday on Ebay. I tired to use Esnipe to put in my bid at the last
second, and it failed completely. Had I bid manually I would have won. It
was a Kitfox 1 with 2 wings, and went for $7900.
So that is what I am looking for, a Kitfox 2 or a 1 with 2 wings, I would like
the 950 gross if possible. Does anyone know of one in decent shape, Rotax motor
OK as long as it is low to mid time, under $9K, and within 500 miles of Elmira,
NY? There is a nice Kitfox 1 on Barnstomers for $10K with trailer, which
would be great, except it is 2600 miles away in Oregon. Someone must have one
between here and there. :)
Thanks,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II |
I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been monitoring it
for several days and am impressed with the wealth of knowledge and helpful
Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit about me - I got my PPL in the US
many years ago, training on a Tomahawk and doing business flying in
Cherokees mostly. I moved to the UK for a while and recently got the urge to
fly again - bought my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a
PPL) to rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I bought it,
with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100 hours since a rebuild
on the 582.
I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a 20ft
container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several questions that will
hopefully put it back into top shape first.
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a
steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad
repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is
loose and slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during
taking the wings off and putting them back on. After a run-up &taxi and a
post-flight inspection I discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was
extended into the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
goodness it was only a run-up!
My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the flaperon
be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal possibly epoxied in
place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if not how should it be secured?
What's the proper repair given that the end of the flaperon is now open?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
I don't think you answered someone's question about balance
weights....do you even HAVE balance weights on the flaperons?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Southern Skies wrote:
> After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not
> balance on the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or
> do I need to balance them so they stay in any position?
>
> Thanks for all the help and advice!
>
> Chris Bowles
> KF 3 Rotax 582
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
I bought my kitfox at the end of April. The plane had low times and was finished
back 1996 so it sat more than flew. I decided to replace the fuel lines firewall
forward new carb boots. I replaced the gsc with a warp drive. A friend
of mine who owns a model IV flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't
have my license yet. Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder
is really stiff at cruising speed. The rudder and stabilizer is not the airfoil
style and is not gap sealed. My friend who's plane has the speedster tail
said his rudder is alot easier than mine.
It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much pressure as these
are the older style that have not been gusseted. What is the best remedy? I
would like to make the rudder input easier. Or should I just deal with as this
is normal. I really appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.
Thanks again,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189084#189084
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
It sounds like the steel rod is an attempt to balance the flaperon?
Or is it actually a steel tube? A steel tube is used within the
flaperon...they call it the flaperon spar...and the flaperon hinges
pivot on it. But you say it is a rod, so my guess is an attempt to
balance the flaperon...got any pictures?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been
> monitoring it for several days and am impressed with the wealth of
> knowledge and helpful Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit
> about me - I got my PPL in the US many years ago, training on a
> Tomahawk and doing business flying in Cherokees mostly. I moved to
> the UK for a while and recently got the urge to fly again - bought
> my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a PPL) to
> rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
> model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I
> bought it, with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100
> hours since a rebuild on the 582.
>
> I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a
> 20ft container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several
> questions that will hopefully put it back into top shape first.
>
> Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon
> has a steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty,
> no doubt a bad repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of
> the flaperon, it is loose and slides easily, and the putty must
> have loosened sometime during taking the wings off and putting them
> back on. After a run-up &taxi and a post-flight inspection I
> discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was extended into
> the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
> goodness it was only a run-up!
>
> My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the
> flaperon be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal
> possibly epoxied in place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if
> not how should it be secured? What's the proper repair given that
> the end of the flaperon is now open?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "kitfoxmike" <customtrans(at)qwest.net> |
You can gap seal just like the elevator. 2" tape stuck on top of each other then
put along one side, slide into the gap and then stuck on the other side, make
sure the rudder is pulled to one side before doing the final stick. Closing
the gap will ease up the force applied to the peddles.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189087#189087
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
Are the rudder pedals stiff when operating on the ground with the
tailwheel off the ground? You might look for stiff bearings at the
rudder hinge, or misaligned rudder bearings...if the rudder bearings
don't all line up with each other, that condition will require high
input force. Also, make sure that the rudder pedal bushings are
free...you can lube them up nicely when you have them out for
installation of the gussets. You ARE going to gusset them, aren't you?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:55 PM, nick4853 wrote:
>
> I bought my kitfox at the end of April. The plane had low times
> and was finished back 1996 so it sat more than flew. I decided to
> replace the fuel lines firewall forward new carb boots. I replaced
> the gsc with a warp drive. A friend of mine who owns a model IV
> flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't have my license
> yet. Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder is
> really stiff at cruising speed. The rudder and stabilizer is not
> the airfoil style and is not gap sealed. My friend who's plane has
> the speedster tail said his rudder is alot easier than mine.
> It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much
> pressure as these are the older style that have not been gusseted.
> What is the best remedy? I would like to make the rudder input
> easier. Or should I just deal with as this is normal. I really
> appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.
> Thanks again,
> Nick
>
> --------
> kitfox !V-1200
> Rotax 912ul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189084#189084
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with
C box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur
with the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
>From what I understand none of the composite prop manufacturers like to hear
of their props being used on either direct drive or any PSRU with an even
reduction number..i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 4. Something to do with normal TV
(Torsional Vibration) harmonics always occurring in exactly the same places
for each prop rotation causing cracking at the prop roots.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can be
used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on it and
use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no
problems , with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Exactly Lynn.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
Interesting....is this because of the harmonics that would be set up
using a 3-blade with a 3:1 ratio? That is, the same blade hitting the
same cylinder every third time around? I seem to recall gear-trains
being set up with an odd number of teeth...called a "hunting tooth"
to keep the same tooth from hitting a particular spot every time
around. Is this the principle?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1
box and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable
maker of aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous
combination or that somewhere I would not come across a service
advisory. I've done a few searches using various wording around 3.0:1
and there doesn't appear to be anything out there. Not on Warp's
website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up with Google. I'm starting to
think this is a bit of a tale.
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
From what I understand none of the composite prop manufacturers like
to hear of their props being used on either direct drive or any PSRU
with an even reduction number..i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 4. Something to do with
normal TV (Torsional Vibration) harmonics always occurring in exactly
the same places for each prop rotation causing cracking at the prop
roots.
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:23 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C
drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can
be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on
it and use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1
ratio with no problems , with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
to browse
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more:
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Checked by AVG.
22/06/2008 7:52 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II |
Hi Lynn - thanks for the quick response.
I have taken and attached 2 pix for you, being new to the list I hope it
works. The steel rod (PIC1) is about 3/8" solid steel and is 1/2 the length
of the flaperon, In the picture I laid it on top for you to see. PIC2 shows
it protruding from the leading edge where it should be inside and secured.
The flaperons do not have the counter-weights to stop vibration as I have
seen on other older models, however part of the UK annual airworthiness test
requires the airplane to be flown at Vne (100mph for my model 2) and there
was no hint of vibration or anything other than perfect operation of the
flaperons.
BTW that wasn't your Jabiru 2200 Speedster at the Cub Haven fly-in 2 days
ago was it?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 22 June 2008 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II
It sounds like the steel rod is an attempt to balance the flaperon?
Or is it actually a steel tube? A steel tube is used within the
flaperon...they call it the flaperon spar...and the flaperon hinges
pivot on it. But you say it is a rod, so my guess is an attempt to
balance the flaperon...got any pictures?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been
> monitoring it for several days and am impressed with the wealth of
> knowledge and helpful Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit
> about me - I got my PPL in the US many years ago, training on a
> Tomahawk and doing business flying in Cherokees mostly. I moved to
> the UK for a while and recently got the urge to fly again - bought
> my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a PPL) to
> rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
> model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I
> bought it, with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100
> hours since a rebuild on the 582.
>
> I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a
> 20ft container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several
> questions that will hopefully put it back into top shape first.
>
> Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon
> has a steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty,
> no doubt a bad repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of
> the flaperon, it is loose and slides easily, and the putty must
> have loosened sometime during taking the wings off and putting them
> back on. After a run-up &taxi and a post-flight inspection I
> discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was extended into
> the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
> goodness it was only a run-up!
>
> My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the
> flaperon be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal
> possibly epoxied in place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if
> not how should it be secured? What's the proper repair given that
> the end of the flaperon is now open?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
Welcome home!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a steel
rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad repair.
The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is loose and
slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during taking the wings
off and putting them back on.
> [b]
Bob, the steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it. Here is
a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other information
about your flaperon system.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb9.htm
You can find all the Kitfox service letters and bulletins on the Kitfox factory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc click on technical questions.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#189101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dee Young <henrysfork1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Good idea thanks.
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Strut Fairings> From: gbsb2002(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:35:51 -0700> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com> > -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mnflyer" > > Hi Dee I
see you have a Model II so the struts are most likely 7/8" like mine the PV
C is designed of 1" what I did was wrap the struts with leading edge tape (
it was 6" wide and heavy duty) about every 24" and the PVC then snapped in
place nicely. If you go that way and want any more tips on installation jus
t e mail me.> > --------> GB > MNFlyer> Flying a HKS Kitfox III> > > > > Re
ad this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
===========> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
I haven't raised the tail and tried it, I'll try tomorrow. It taxis with less
effort than at cruise. It has 103 hrs on it with no sign of fatigue But yes
I am going to gusset the post and cable attachment.
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189107#189107
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
Thanks Tom, that explains the steel rods (I checked, there is one in the
port wing as well) and the wing patches on all 10 hangers for the aluminum
reinforcement brackets. It will also allow me to answer the inevitable "you
don't have the counter-weights installed(!!??)" that I get every time
another Kitfox owner sees my plane.
I can't however find an installation document for the UK fix and am not sure
how to re-secure the loose rod and seal the end it is coming out of, and
ensure the other one doesn't come loose in flight.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 22 June 2008 3:46 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Model II
[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a
steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad
repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is
loose and slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during
taking the wings off and putting them back on.
> [b]
Bob, the steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it. Here
is a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other
information about your flaperon system.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb9.htm
You can find all the Kitfox service letters and bulletins on the Kitfox
factory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc click on technical questions.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#189101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
| From: | "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com> |
got a Model 3 with a 400 hr 912 for $15,000
David
Model 3 and 7
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189113#189113
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I
guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy.
Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been
modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and
passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping
off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
more accessable.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> Hi Lowell-
>
> Nice to hear from you.
> It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the shot,
> but it seems like there are more structural members within the fuse of
> your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you add some
> reinforcements?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> To the list:
>>
>> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
>> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
>> airplane....
>>
>> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.
>> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.
>> I am currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
>> original. Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing
>> gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like
>> that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
>> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs,
>> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge
>> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
>> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
>>
>> Glad to be back and active.
>>
>> Lowell Fitt
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrew Lawrence <1alawrence(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
David,
Thanks for the offer. I will keep it in mind. Right now I think that it is a
little out of my price range. If I had the money I would jump at it.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: dcsfoto <david(at)kelm.com>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 4:42 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer.
>
>
>got a Model 3 with a 400 hr 912 for $15,000
>
>David
>
>Model 3 and 7
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189113#189113
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
nick4853 wrote:
> I haven't raised the tail and tried it, I'll try tomorrow. It taxis with less
effort than at cruise. It has 103 hrs on it with no sign of fatigue But yes
I am going to gusset the post and cable attachment.
Nick, another point to check is the tail wheel linkage attach holes of the rudder
horn. It seems I can remember some people modified the rudder horn looking
for better control while taxiing. Some drilled tail wheel spring attach holes
inboard of the originals on the rudder horn, I think. The original tail wheel
spring attach holes on the rudder horn are six inches center to center. Anything
less will increase amount of pedal pressure required.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189148#189148
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
| From: | gary.algate(at)sandvik.com |
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any noticeable
vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration sensor also
never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of people in Canada
running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade props without problems.
It would still pay to check with prop supplier
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Dave"
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
23/06/2008 03:58 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with C
box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur with
the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com
">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in advance,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Motor mount getting hot |
At 05:16 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>If anyone else has had this problem or knows a solution please let me know.
Three solutions:
1. Wrap the exhaust locally using heat shield available from ACS.
2. Wrap the mount using heat shield from ACS.
3. Build a metal heat shield and attach it to the pipe. (Sort of like
1/4 of a heater muff.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
At 10:55 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much
>pressure as these are the older style that have not been
>gusseted. What is the best remedy? I would like to make the rudder
>input easier. Or should I just deal with as this is normal.
Doesn't sound like it's normal, according to the other guy. Try:
1. Gusset the rudder pedals. It's a known problem and the rudder
pedals take a hell of a load. (Not from the rudder, but from the brakes.)
2. Try the rudder with the tail lifted. Is it very free? It should
be. If not, find out why.
3. Are the rudder tillers too long? Do you have too much rudder
throw? +/-30 degrees should be enough.
4. If you gap seal the rudder, you'll get a lot more effect around
zero, a lot more "sensitivity".
5. Stupid question time. Are you pushing on both pedals when you use
rudder? (Don't laugh, I've caught myself doing this innumerable
times. Why? I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to be precise.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
At 11:16 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
>combination? Is there an advisory about it?
I too have never seen, nor heard anything against a 3-blade Warp on a
3:1 Rotax C box. Not from Rotax, Warp, or anyone service center. I
hope someone comes up with some authoritative info.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
I think I found the source of the story on the IVO web site. It's a
service bulletin and has very little to do with 3:1 gearboxes, although
they are mentioned. I think it's been heavily expanded upon by people
repeating the story. The short story is that one series of IVO has a
service bulletin when used on 3:1 box, or direct drive, or three
cylinder engines.
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any
noticeable vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration
sensor also never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of
people in Canada running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade
props without problems. It would still pay to check with prop supplier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
At 05:15 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Springs for the exhaust on a 582
www.800-airwolf.com
http://www.geocities.com/chinooktips/ROTAX.html
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/
>Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
www.aircraftspruce.com
>Gas struts for the doors
http://www.guden.com/dampers.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
Bob=0AThe UK fix is not a factory fix and the securing of the rods is froug
ht with problems.- The counter weights as supplied by the factory will be
more secure and lighter.- Will also save you having to answer those ques
tions about why you don't have them. ;-)=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Or
iginal Message ----=0AFrom: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>=0ATo:
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 1:25:30 PM=0ASubjec
t: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Model II=0A=0A--> Kitfox-L
ist message posted by: "Bob Brennan" =0A=0AThan
ks Tom, that explains the steel rods (I checked, there is one in the=0Aport
wing as well) and the wing patches on all 10 hangers for the aluminum=0Are
inforcement brackets. It will also allow me to answer the inevitable "you
=0Adon't have the counter-weights installed(!!??)" that I get every time=0A
another Kitfox owner sees my plane.=0A=0AI can't however find an installati
on document for the UK fix and am not sure=0Ahow to re-secure the loose rod
and seal the end it is coming out of, and=0Aensure the other one doesn't c
ome loose in flight.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner
-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matron
ics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones=0ASent: 22 June 2008 3:46 pm=0ATo: kitfox-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Mode
et>=0A=0A[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]- =0AMost important- ques
tion - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a=0Asteel rod that appe
ars- to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad=0Arepair. The p
roblem is that- the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is=0Aloose and
slides easily, and the- putty must have loosened sometime during=0Ataking
the wings off and- putting them back on.- - =0A> [b]=0A=0A=0ABob, th
e steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it.- Here=0Ai
s a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other=0Ainfo
rmation about your flaperon system.=0Ahttp://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support
/service_bulletins/sb9.htm=0A=0AYou can find all the Kitfox service letters
and bulletins on the Kitfox=0Afactory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc- cl
ick on technical questions.=0A=0A--------=0ATom Jones=0AClassic IV=0A503 Ro
tax, 72 inch Two blade Warp=0AEllensburg, WA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#1891
=========================0A
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
That has almost got to be an early attempt to balance the flaperon,
but there are others who may know for sure.
Nope, that wasn't mine. I was originally going to fly to Lock Haven
with a group of guys from Ohio and lower Michigan, but I opted for a
trip to Virginia instead, and that got washed out by my recent prop
problem, (which by the way is not a problem any longer...knock on wood).
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> Hi Lynn - thanks for the quick response.
>
> I have taken and attached 2 pix for you, being new to the list I
> hope it
> works. The steel rod (PIC1) is about 3/8" solid steel and is 1/2
> the length
> of the flaperon, In the picture I laid it on top for you to see.
> PIC2 shows
> it protruding from the leading edge where it should be inside and
> secured.
>
> The flaperons do not have the counter-weights to stop vibration as
> I have
> seen on other older models, however part of the UK annual
> airworthiness test
> requires the airplane to be flown at Vne (100mph for my model 2)
> and there
> was no hint of vibration or anything other than perfect operation
> of the
> flaperons.
>
> BTW that wasn't your Jabiru 2200 Speedster at the Cub Haven fly-in
> 2 days
> ago was it?
>
> Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Glasgow" <gary-n-dorothy(at)tctwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
Gary & the others following this thread, or just lurking----
Somewhere I got the idea that the C and E box units, by having the
stronger gear sets were supposed to help take care of the Harmonic/
vibration problems with the gears .
When I decided to go with an Ivo- I called and told them that I had a C
box currently with a gsc and-- the new power would be ( a blue head
with an a 3.47 box E box,) Ivo did not recommend the ultralight 3
blade when I called, but did recommend the medium .. They sent a 3
blade medium ground adjustable, as I indicated that I wanted maximum
STOL performance and did not care about top speed.
Since then I became aware of the Service bulletin #17 and according
to it, I can't use anything other than a 3-1 ratio with the side rail
engine mount.
SO I assume, they had never heard about the bulletin and probably
would have told me to get a different set of gears --i.e. 3-1 ratio for
the E box.
I haven't called Ivo back yet , but from the gist of all the emails,
it is looking more and more like I should mount the old 3-1 C box on the
new engine and convert the prop to a 2 blade with Ivo's different
spacers. Does this sound like a good idea to you ?
Any of you folks out there with any bits of knowledge you have on this
subject feel free to chime in, as I am really starting to get just
a little confused :>)
I really just want to install the E box with 3.47-1 and the 3 blade
medium prop as it should give me terrific "bite" for take off
performance !!!! But if it is going to tear the engine loose from the
motor mounts or induce gear damage, then I will stick with what the
Rotax engineers recommend.
Gary
N4276M
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any
noticeable vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration
sensor also never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of
people in Canada running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade
props without problems. It would still pay to check with prop supplier
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
"Dave"
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
23/06/2008 03:58 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
cc
Subject Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with
C box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur
with the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-
-
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell-
I sort of cured that shoulder harness problem by using a 2" wide
length of belting material (similar to the harness) wrapped around
the two shoulder belts, and velcroed to itself. In other words, it's
a circle of belting material that has velcro attached such that it
becomes a straight section in the middle with a loop on each end. The
straight section is formed when the ends of the belt are wrapped
around the harness and pressed together. I'm not explaining it very
well..too late in the day...but the result is the shoulder straps are
held together on your shoulders, yet the thing can be removed very
easily if needed. I put mine behind the down tubes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>
> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model
> IV. I guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes
> it look busy. Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the
> turtle deck area has been modified to allow the shoulder straps to
> attach directly behind pilot and passenger. I always struggled
> keeping the shoulder harness from dropping off my shoulder.
> Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area more
> accessable.
>
> Lowell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sbennett3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
In a message dated 6/22/2008 9:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:
(which by the way is not a problem any longer...knock on wood).
Didn't you mean "knock on prop"? :-)
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sbennett3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
I have hooker harnesses on my 4 When I do cross countries and use the small
cargo area, Me and my passenger just loop our shoulder harnesses on the
outside only. Belts only on the inside. Steve Bennett Rebel...
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motor mount getting hot |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks Guy for the input with the heat shield. I guess I'm wondering why this
occurring to me and not others with the same installation. Like I said before,
the port side bushing shows no sign of heat problems I'm thinking the heat shielding
will cure the problem and is probably an easy fix. Although there's
not a whole lot of room in there. Ill try to post a pic tomorrow.
Thanks
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189201#189201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A Smith" <kitfox(at)ida.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Had to replace the gas struts a few years ago on my Mod. 5. Can not remember
exactly where, but it was a camper supply online. They were the exact ones
that came with the kit. $12. and some change.
Albert Smith
MudLake, Id
Mod 5 TD
NSI T Cap
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> |
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to learning
about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew some formation
against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the faster of the
two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch the flap
handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without stalling? I
guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes, but I fly final
at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed with any flap setting.
You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to trim the airplane, but
something about that doesn't square well. The faster you go, the more the nose
wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal stability. To trim nose down,
you must shift the center of lift backwards by putting flaps down further. Flaps
are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. When I get to going
fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add drag. Putting flaps down
is going to fix the problem one way or the other because it is going to kill
all the speed!Corollary question:What flap setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am I free
to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do not have
turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a higher angle
of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with each
other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some difference
in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the cooler one
a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
> I really just want to install the E box with 3.47-1 and the 3 blade medium prop
as it should give me terrific "bite" for take off performance !!!! But if it
is going to tear the engine loose from the motor mounts or induce gear damage,
then I will stick with what the Rotax engineers recommend.
>
>
>
> Gary
> N4276M
>
I have E box - 3 to 1 works great . tried 2.62 set last year -- worse performance
all around. 3.47 I would like to try as well.
IVO medium 3 blade with 3 to 1 and 582 is way too much prop. 2 blade will work best. I have tried 6 or 7 different props all with comparable numbers on the 582. No huge gains to be had. A few % at best. all props do have their own attributes. There are some various prop tests here http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Does your Kitfox fly like this ? short take offs and cruise at 92 with 582 .......
3 to 1 box harmonics might be a issue........ I think it all stemmed from some
IVO UL 3 blade configs loosening off a bit and now that is why witness tape
is used to show movement.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189229#189229
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
on the ground all controls should be free and easy.
elevator should fall with gravity. Rudder should be totally free. IF not something
is binding and that is not good.
In the air all controls will get "stiffer" with speed.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189230#189230
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
Lowell, Welcome back and I love you gear. Your cub type gear is awesome. Looks
like a cheaper and light alternative to the grove gear.
Will you be selling it ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189231#189231
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flaperon Flutter |
I replaced the white nylon on the turtledeck with thicker Delrin and made it a
nice, snug fit around the flaperon rod. It surprised me how much difference it
made. Much of the up and down play is gone. I also reinforced the inboard and
outboard hangar ribs.
There is another Kitfox at my airport and when we looked there we found one side
of the nylon also cracked.
I will still replace all the hinge bushings and that should put me back in the
air safely.......
Chris Bowles
KF3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
From: skypics234(at)aol.com
Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [avid_flyer] Flaperon Flutter
I have two friends with Kitfoxes. One is a Kitfox 2 and the other a Kitfox
3.
They both have counterweights on the flaperons, but both encountered flutter.
Both were corrected by tightening up all the linkage between the stick and
the flaperons and making better and tighter supports where the flaperon
activation rods go through the side of the turtle deck.
In both cases the flutter was intermittent, but showed up mostly when doing
Dutch Rolls.
These are very alarming as you might imagine.
John M
In a message dated 6/22/2008 9:03:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
chris(at)southernskies.net writes:
Hello Listers,
I thought I'll check here too for any input that you might be able to
provide.
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did look
the plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very experienced
Kitfox/Avid owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going through
the turtledeck busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin bushings that
have a nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and
will fix that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a
little play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on how to
get them out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out? Will the foam
cause a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on the
hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to balance
them so they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown(at)verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
>hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
>was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
>In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
>that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
>installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
>from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
>less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
>caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
>The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
>turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
>little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
>and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
>Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
>and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
>down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
>very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
>A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
>up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
>ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed
>on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
>a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
>my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
Yes I had provided that info earlier- the counterbalance weights are installed
and they are tight.
To make the flaperons balance on the hinge I would have to add weight to the trailing
edge.
They fall towards the leading edge when linkage is removed.
Perhpas the foam has deteriorated?
Chris Bowles
KF3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 1:47 PM
>To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>I don't think you answered someone's question about balance
>weights....do you even HAVE balance weights on the flaperons?
>
>Lynn Matteson
>Kitfox IV Speedster
>Jabiru 2200
>Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
>On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Southern Skies wrote:
>> After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not
>> balance on the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or
>> do I need to balance them so they stay in any position?
>>
>> Thanks for all the help and advice!
>>
>> Chris Bowles
>> KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
At 09:36 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. When
>I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add
>drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
>other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary
>question:What flap setting gives the best speed
Well, any trim is drag, the question is, what system generates the
least drag. I have found that the elevator, probably because of its
long arm, generates less drag than using the flaps for trim. I
therefore installed an elevator trim tab. Once I did I then fiddled
both until I had maximum speed in cruise. I found the cruise speed,
though, to be fairly insensitive to configuration.
>What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal
>stab? Am I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my
>stab struts do not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading
>edge by choosing a higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
You're free to experiment, but only if you put adjustment capability
on your struts, or make three pairs of struts. I wouldn't bend
anything. (I think most run their stab LE as "flat" as possible,
(high LE,) which makes for less trim drag and less pitch stability.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kr2(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lynn,
I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I worried at
times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a crash and fire.
It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon just came apart. What
I mean is the webbing shredded.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> Lowell-
> I sort of cured that shoulder harness problem by using a 2" wide length
> of belting material (similar to the harness) wrapped around the two
> shoulder belts, and velcroed to itself. In other words, it's a circle of
> belting material that has velcro attached such that it becomes a straight
> section in the middle with a loop on each end. The straight section is
> formed when the ends of the belt are wrapped around the harness and
> pressed together. I'm not explaining it very well..too late in the
> day...but the result is the shoulder straps are held together on your
> shoulders, yet the thing can be removed very easily if needed. I put mine
> behind the down tubes.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV.
>> I guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look
>> busy. Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area
>> has been modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind
>> pilot and passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness
>> from dropping off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes
>> the baggage area more accessable.
>>
>> Lowell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
RE: Trimming with flaps and EGTs
Jeff, Pulling the flap handle up pitches the nose down. Don't worry about losing
speed with this set up for trimming...it is a kitfox. My Classic 4 cruises
at 75 and needs just 1/2 inch or less of up flap handle to trim the nose down
to level hands off. I can't see any loss of speed on the indicator. I get
on my snowmobile when I want to go really fast.
The carb pistons (slides) should be set even at closed throttle They should both
contact the idle screw stop at the same time as throttle is closed. Then check
to see that they both move up at exactly the same time when throttle is advanced.
They should be just clear of the top of the carb throat at full throttle.
Be sure the throttle handle hits it's stop at full throttle so the force
is not on the cables.
The carb main jet controls fuel and thus EGT at full throttle. Different EGT between
cylinders is not unusual. It can easily be a temp gage error. Switch
the probes in the exhaust manifold Y to trouble shoot it. If it is in spec (I
think 45 degrees F difference) and runs good and smooth, don't worry about it.
It is mostly a base line reading to monitor for changes anyhow. Check the
spark plug color for the final decision.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189281#189281
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have recommendations on the
springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
composite?
Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting points
and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume) make
stainless look attractive.
Any experience / opinions on these choices?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: 22 June 2008 8:51 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
At 05:15 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Springs for the exhaust on a 582
www.800-airwolf.com
http://www.geocities.com/chinooktips/ROTAX.html
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/
>Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
www.aircraftspruce.com
>Gas struts for the doors
http://www.guden.com/dampers.asp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
| From: | "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com> |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1 box and
it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable maker of aircraft
engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous combination or that somewhere
I would not come across a service advisory. I've done a few searches using various
wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear to be anything out there. Not
on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up with Google. I'm starting
to think this is a bit of a tale.
Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get a honest
opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out from the
source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it with 3:1 ratio
. Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so u can do anything
u want to but experience speaks for itself .
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189314#189314
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my shoulders,
I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no "scissor" action
as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered behind the seats.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I
> guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy.
> Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been
> modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and
> passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping
> off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
> more accessable.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
>
> >
> > Hi Lowell-
> >
> > Nice to hear from you.
> > It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the shot,
> > but it seems like there are more structural members within the fuse of
> > your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you add some
> > reinforcements?
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster
> > Jabiru 2200
> > Status: flying w/530 hrs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> >
> >> To the list:
> >>
> >> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
> >> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
> >> airplane....
> >>
> >> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.
> >> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.
> >> I am currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
> >> original. Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing
> >> gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like
> >> that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
> >> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs,
> >> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge
> >> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
> >> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
> >>
> >> Glad to be back and active.
> >>
> >> Lowell Fitt
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my shoulders,
I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no "scissor"
action as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered behind
the seats.
John Kerr
> --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> Thanks to all for the
welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I
> guess with a bright
sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy.
> Actually, though,
from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been
> modified
to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and
>
passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping
>
off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
> more accessable.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <LYNNMATT(at)JPS.NET><BR>>
To:
> Sent: Sunday,
June
22, 2008 3:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
>
>
> > Hi Lowell-
> >
> > Nice
to hear from you.
> > It may just be all the shadows or the angle
at which you took the shot,
> > but it seems like there are more structural
members within the fuse of
> > your plane than normal. Is
that just an illusion, or did you add some
> > reinforcements?
>
>
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster
>
> Jabiru 2200
> > Status: flying w/530 hrs
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM,
Lowell Fitt wrote:
> >
> >> To the list:
> >>
> >> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it
again since
> >> flying superceded the b
uild e
xperience, but then when there is no
> >> airplane....
> >>
> >> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially
completed kit.
> >> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some
parts that are available.
> >> I am currently working on all the
things I learned to wish I had on the
> >> original. Just finished
a cabane attached compression spring landing
> >> gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like
> >>
that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
>
>> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs,
>
>> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading
edge
> >> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin
working on the
> >> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
> >>
> >> Glad to be
back a
e -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
Hi all,
I have moved recently from the UK and brought my Kitfox Model 2 with me. In
2003 it changed classification in the UK from GA to Microlight, which
allowed me more privileges than restrictions. I have registered it with a
proper "N" number here but there was no request for a classification, GA or
Experimental, or Light Sport that I could find. The FAA are less than
helpful (surprise, surprise) about anything to do with the Light Sport
category. I have full PPL licenses in both the US and EU if that matters.
My questions:
1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional
what is the best?
2. How do I make it officially that type?
3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own servicing
- how about in the US?
4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but
doesn't the thoroughness follow the type?
5. How about insurance?
A more general question - since it was a US kit built to UK requirements
where can I find minimum requirements here, such as harnesses, headsets,
lights, radio, ELT, parachute, etc, etc. It's a tough question to ask -
"Please tell me what I don't know..."
Thanks in advance,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> |
That has been my experience too, that flap position does not seem to affect my
cruise speed, but no controlled study so far. I am finding that trimming for high
speed is more flap than I would want on final.
I have not bothered to put notches in my flap handle. I can set an infinite range
without stops to prevent too far forward or two far aft, using the leather
washer design to hold the handle where I put it. I have paid the price for having
this configuration and am trying to at least mark the safe limits. Up to
at least three stories to tell on that one, the last one resulted in quite an
air-show at the controlled field. I believe I experienced the lack of roll authority
you referenced in the flare, even though the flaps were at a setting that
still gave full authority to the ailerons. I swear another factor, as I was
trying to get that right wing to go down, was adverse yaw pulling the left one
backwards.
I am still getting a little skip at mid range from the engine. It has been since
last September that I played with the mixture screw. That is when I put #45
idle jets in it. It idles better but still some four cycling, but much better.
I have to read up again to remember what I can achieve by adjusting the mixture
screws.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189375#189375
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
John-
That's a good idea...I'll have to look and see if I can still do that
move now that the plane is covered. I recall that one of the belts is
pretty hard to access with covering on, but I think that was the lap
belt on the outside of the plane.
Lowell-
Shredded? Wow, that must have been some hit. Did you sew the red
webbing, or velcro it? With the velcro, it should have just popped
the velcro loose, I would think.
The more I think about how I did mine, the less sure I am about the
safety issue....I might just get turned sideways and slip through the
shoulder harness and get up close and personal with the panel....time
to revisit this situation, I think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I
worried at times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a
crash and fire. It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon
just came apart. What I mean is the webbing shredded.
On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:46 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
>
> A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my
> shoulders, I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There
> is no "scissor" action as the angle is only slightly greater than
> if centered behind the seats.
>
> John Kerr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | RE: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
Thanks Matt - I've been a member of the EAA for many years. I'm an American
that lived in the UK for 14 years.
All of the documents at the EAA or FAA websites define requirements and
limitations of Light Sport and Experimental aircraft, but don't explain
specifics and whether they are inclusive or exclusive. It appears that the
Light Sport category is tailored to the new Sport Pilot license, but I have
a full PPL. In the UK my Kitfox was clearly (and voluntarily) classified as
"microlight" and I held an NPPLM (National Private Pilot's Licence for
Microlights) and there was a clear distinction. Here there isn't much
distinction between "Experimental" and "Light Sport" other than weight
limitations and who can fly them when and where. It seems to be more of a
distinction on the pilot rather than the aircraft, or am I missing
something?
BTW I went to 2 FAA offices and no one there was clear on the situation
either, they called it "too new"!
Bob
_____
From: Matt Magdic
Sent: 23 June 2008 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both?
Bob, I'm normally just a reader here, but your best bet is to call the EAA.
They are there to help and more than willing....
Welcome to the U.S. !
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
I've got a fiberglas spinner and no problems in 538 hours, and when I
need to change the springs on my Jabiru exhaust pipes, I use ordinary
cad-plated springs from the local hardware store. I get the 12" long
springs and cut to the proper length, and re-form the ends.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have
> recommendations on the
> springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
> composite?
>
> Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting
> points
> and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
> replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume)
> make
> stainless look attractive.
>
> Any experience / opinions on these choices?
>
> Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
Don't-overanalyize-it Jeff. It works. Pull up the flap lever in flight
and the nose comes down. From my experience in a M2, that's about all the f
laps are really good for. Lemme guess, your forward cylinder EGT runs 50-10
0 degrees-cooler than the aft, right?
-
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Mod 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 6/23/08, Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> wrote:
From: Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 12:36 AM
<1dillfamily(at)comcast.net>
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some
formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the fas
ter
of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch t
he
flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without stallin
g? I
guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes, but I fly fin
al at
least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed with any flap set
ting.
You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to trim the airplane, but
something about that doesn't square well. The faster you go, the more the
nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal stability. To trim nose
down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by putting flaps down
further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. Wh
en I
get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add drag. Putting
flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the other because it is g
oing
to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap setting gives the best s
peed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I
free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do not
have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a higher
angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even wit
h
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing
some difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up th
e
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
============0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Define "need to change the springs" please Lynn - does that mean "broken" or
"rusted" or "change interval is due"? Mine are rusted and one is broken and
hanging on by the safety wire. If stainless is as strong and do their
"spring" thing as well why use anything else?
I agree with the fiberglass spinner - especially in front of a Jabiru
cowling which is good-looking to begin with. Let me guess - white spinner
and white cowl with fancy colored lettering? My M2 has J3 cub yellow with
black go-faster stripes and the big radial cowling. With a 3-blade wood prop
and gloss black spinner I think mine is darned good looking too :-) Except
for the cracks in the spinner....
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 23 June 2008 3:49 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
I've got a fiberglas spinner and no problems in 538 hours, and when I
need to change the springs on my Jabiru exhaust pipes, I use ordinary
cad-plated springs from the local hardware store. I get the 12" long
springs and cut to the proper length, and re-form the ends.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have
> recommendations on the
> springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
> composite?
>
> Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting
> points
> and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
> replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume)
> make
> stainless look attractive.
>
> Any experience / opinions on these choices?
>
> Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Geee, I bet they're closed on Sunday. I could certainly call TODAY if I
suspected for one minute there was a huge issue out there with Warp props on
these boxes. I don't think there is, I think when Warp says any Rotax box,
they mean it. I already posted that IVO has an issue with one series of
props on several installations, I don't use an IVO. Did you miss your
morning coffee or something? I'll spell it out for you, it's an IVO problem,
not a gearbox problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "eskflyer" <eskflyer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
> Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get
> a honest opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out
> from the source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it
> with 3:1 ratio . Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so
> u can do anything u want to but experience speaks for itself .
>
> --------
> FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
> 1220 Full Lotus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
> 1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional what
is the best?
> 2. How do I make it officially that type?
> 3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own servicing
- how about in the US?
> 4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but doesn't
the thoroughness follow the type?
> 5. How about insurance?
Bob, I'll try to keep from confusing you further by putting this in common terms.
Probably all US built KItfoxes are registered as "Experimental Amateur Built".
There, so far, is no such thing as a Kitfox "Experimental Light sport aircraft".
I do not know the rules for registering, servicing or working on an imported Kitfox.
I do know that if a Model 2 Kitfox does not have an in-flight adjustable propeller
it meets the definition of a Light Sport Aircraft so you can fly it under
Sport Pilot rules with your PPL and a state drivers license.
You do not need a current medical certificate but if you ever fail a FAA medical
exam you must get that resolved before you can fly under sport pilot rules again.
Insurance is not required but is available if you want/need it.
Don't try to find any logic in the above. Logic was not a consideration in establishing
these rules.
Here's what I do.
I fly my kitfox with a PPL under sport pilot rules. I have not taken an FAA medical
exam since mine expired six years ago.
Anyone can service or work on my Kitfox. The only signature required ever for
anything in the aircraft log book is for the annual condition inspection. That
must be signed by the original builder with a repairman's certificate (me) or
a minimum A&P mechanic.
I am a low time tail wheel pilot insured through AIG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189422#189422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
Manitoba used to have laws against riding on the running boards of any
vehicle (Harley owners loved that one) but I don't know of any law
restricting putting your foot on the wheel... how about hang gliders where
the feet are the wheels?? I think You're legal.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lynn,
The strap had velcro on each end with a small "D" ring for grabbing in an
emergency. Picture of what was left attached. Yes it was a hit.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> John-
> That's a good idea...I'll have to look and see if I can still do that
> move now that the plane is covered. I recall that one of the belts is
> pretty hard to access with covering on, but I think that was the lap belt
> on the outside of the plane.
>
> Lowell-
>
> Shredded? Wow, that must have been some hit. Did you sew the red webbing,
> or velcro it? With the velcro, it should have just popped the velcro
> loose, I would think.
> The more I think about how I did mine, the less sure I am about the
> safety issue....I might just get turned sideways and slip through the
> shoulder harness and get up close and personal with the panel....time to
> revisit this situation, I think.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I worried
> at times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a crash and
> fire. It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon just came
> apart. What I mean is the webbing shredded.
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:46 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
>>
>> A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my
>> shoulders, I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no
>> "scissor" action as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered
>> behind the seats.
>>
>> John Kerr
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
The skip at midrange you mention sounds like your midrange mixture is to ri
ch. The idle circut will not have much effect at midrange, that is control
led by the jet needle and needle jet. If the EGTs are low and the sparkplu
gs are black in color, I would raise the clip one notch on the jet needle.
Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a f
lap handle? Model 2> From: 1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008
sted by: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net>> > That has been my exper
ience too, that flap position does not seem to affect my cruise speed, but
no controlled study so far. I am finding that trimming for high speed is mo
re flap than I would want on final.> > I have not bothered to put notches i
n my flap handle. I can set an infinite range without stops to prevent too
far forward or two far aft, using the leather washer design to hold the han
dle where I put it. I have paid the price for having this configuration and
am trying to at least mark the safe limits. Up to at least three stories t
o tell on that one, the last one resulted in quite an air-show at the contr
olled field. I believe I experienced the lack of roll authority you referen
ced in the flare, even though the flaps were at a setting that still gave f
ull authority to the ailerons. I swear another factor, as I was trying to g
et that right wing to go down, was adverse yaw pulling the left one backwar
ds.> > I am still getting a little skip at mid range from the engine. It ha
s been since last September that I played with the mixture screw. That is w
hen I put #45 idle jets in it. It idles better but still some four cycling,
but much better. I have to read up again to remember what I can achieve by
adjusting the mixture screws.> > --------> Jeff Dill> Model 2, 767JD> > >
> > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
=============> > >
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I was given a little trick to setting up the idle screws on the Bing 54
carbs. First thing was to remove the carbs from the plane and back the
idle
screws to a point where the slides bottom right out. Then lift the
slide
withyour finger and let it drop you will hear a sound as it bottoms.
Turn
the idle screw in a fraction of a turn and do the same thing again until
the
sound of the bottoming dulls. This is the point where the idle screw
first
makes contact with the slide. Do this to both carbs. Turn in the idle
screw on both carbs exactly the same number of turns. This part I=92m
a bit
fuzzy on. I think it=92s around 1 =BD turns. Either way when you
adjust one
carb adjust the other the exact same amount.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
RE: Trimming with flaps and EGTs
Jeff, Pulling the flap handle up pitches the nose down. Don't worry
about
losing speed with this set up for trimming...it is a kitfox. My
Classic 4
cruises at 75 and needs just 1/2 inch or less of up flap handle to trim
the
nose down to level hands off. I can't see any loss of speed on the
indicator. I get on my snowmobile when I want to go really fast.
The carb pistons (slides) should be set even at closed throttle They
should
both contact the idle screw stop at the same time as throttle is closed.
Then check to see that they both move up at exactly the same time when
throttle is advanced. They should be just clear of the top of the carb
throat at full throttle. Be sure the throttle handle hits it's stop at
full
throttle so the force is not on the cables.
The carb main jet controls fuel and thus EGT at full throttle.
Different
EGT between cylinders is not unusual. It can easily be a temp gage
error.
Switch the probes in the exhaust manifold Y to trouble shoot it. If it
is
in spec (I think 45 degrees F difference) and runs good and smooth,
don't
worry about it. It is mostly a base line reading to monitor for changes
anyhow. Check the spark plug color for the final decision.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189281#189281
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
As an added enticement, while talking to the prop folks you may come across
some related infl that they may be able to help with... Today phone calls
are cheap enough.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1 box
and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable maker of
aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous combination or that
somewhere I would not come across a service advisory. I've done a few
searches using various wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear to be
anything out there. Not on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up
with Google. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a tale.
Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get a
honest opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out
from the source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it
with 3:1 ratio . Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so u
can do anything u want to but experience speaks for itself .
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189314#189314
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot, which
allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you say
that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook entry,
but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
the Type and Model which are recorded as
Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local FAA
Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
before returning to the air.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
> 1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional
what is the best?
> 2. How do I make it officially that type?
> 3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own
servicing - how about in the US?
> 4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but
doesn't the thoroughness follow the type?
> 5. How about insurance?
Bob, I'll try to keep from confusing you further by putting this in common
terms.
Probably all US built KItfoxes are registered as "Experimental Amateur
Built". There, so far, is no such thing as a Kitfox "Experimental Light
sport aircraft".
I do not know the rules for registering, servicing or working on an imported
Kitfox.
I do know that if a Model 2 Kitfox does not have an in-flight adjustable
propeller it meets the definition of a Light Sport Aircraft so you can fly
it under Sport Pilot rules with your PPL and a state drivers license.
You do not need a current medical certificate but if you ever fail a FAA
medical exam you must get that resolved before you can fly under sport pilot
rules again.
Insurance is not required but is available if you want/need it.
Don't try to find any logic in the above. Logic was not a consideration in
establishing these rules.
Here's what I do.
I fly my kitfox with a PPL under sport pilot rules. I have not taken an FAA
medical exam since mine expired six years ago.
Anyone can service or work on my Kitfox. The only signature required ever
for anything in the aircraft log book is for the annual condition
inspection. That must be signed by the original builder with a repairman's
certificate (me) or a minimum A&P mechanic.
I am a low time tail wheel pilot insured through AIG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189422#189422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
And the wind on my toes is SOOO refreshing...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 23 June 2008 5:24 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
Manitoba used to have laws against riding on the running boards of any
vehicle (Harley owners loved that one) but I don't know of any law
restricting putting your foot on the wheel... how about hang gliders where
the feet are the wheels?? I think You're legal.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sbennett3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
A private pilot can fly a lsa airplane. A sport pilot can fly ANYTHING that
meets the guidelines for a light sport plane. I can only think of one
advantage in certifying EAB. That would be in flight adj prop. It would have to
be
removed before a sport pilot could legally fly it. Am I on the right page
here? I don't think it really matters how it's certified. Steve Bennett
Classic 4 1200 912ul.
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
I raised the tail today seems pretty free. Took off the rudder pedals to gusset
them. I guess this is just due to to the non airfoil vertical fin? Both kitfox
IV's I flew in had the airfoil and seemed like less effort than this one.
I'll tape the gap and see if that doesn't make a difference. No I'm not pushing
both pedals but I agree that would be stupid.
thanks,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189441#189441
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patrick reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com> |
Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I will also say welcome back. By
the looks of the gear you built, you are an irreplaceable asset to a site l
ike this. You say your building again. I tell people I will be trying to ge
t out of the coffin to build something, anything. Do you happen to have blu
eprints of the gear you built? Even rough skeches with dimensions and mater
ial sizes?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com> S
ubject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:44 -0700> >
To the list:> > I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it aga
in since flying > superceded the build experience, but then when there is n
o airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially c
ompleted kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
available. I am > currently working on all the things I learned to wish I
had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attached compression spring l
anding gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I
like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear
. The other major mod > is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replaci
ng them with an aluminum > leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to th
e stringer. I hope to > someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pic
tures of the landing > gear attached.> > Glad to be back and active.> > Low
ell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
The call would be free if I chose to make it. I don't think there's an
issue. There is only one service bulletin I could find and it affects only
the ultralight IVO prop.
Read it yourself. http://www.ivoprop.com/servicebul2.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
As an added enticement, while talking to the prop folks you may come across
some related infl that they may be able to help with... Today phone calls
are cheap enough.
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot, which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked at
the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will only confuse
you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to "Certificate"
the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to US
from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk to my
local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that was imported
from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | gary.algate(at)sandvik.com |
I have used my flaps in the reflex position and found that I can gain a
couple of extra miles per hr in cruise - I also have to use a little
forward pressure to counter the nose up trim.
Being a model 4, I don't have the serious reduction in aileron movement
when using flap so I experiment a lot with it.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 / Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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| From: | "Roger Standley" <taildragon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I concur, Gary. During Phase I, I experimented with flaps in reflex an
d found a few knots. I have the HS in the lowest position and a trim t
ab on the elevator. =0A=0ARoger=0AKF4-1200, 912UL=0A ----
- Original Message ----- =0A From: gary.algate(at)sandvik.com<mailto:
gary.algate(at)sandvik.com> =0A To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com =0A Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:39 PM
=0A Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Mod
el 2=0A=0A=0A=0A I have used my flaps in the reflex posit
ion and found that I can gain a couple of extra miles per hr in cruise
- I also have to use a little forward pressure to counter the nose up
trim. =0A=0A Being a model 4, I don't have the serious reduc
tion in aileron movement when using flap so I experiment a lot with it
=0A=0A regards =0A=0A Gary=0A=0A Gary Algate
=0A Classic 4 / Jab2200=0A Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655=0A
=0A=0A This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of th
is message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify
us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissi
ons in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
=======================
=======================
gator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
===============0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Tell me about the word "imported" and the FAA!! I didn't fly at all last
year because it took me the better part of a year to convince the FAA I
hadn't bought the Kitfox from the UK and imported it, but that I *owned* it
in the UK and moved here with it. They said they didn't have a form for
that, that they needed a bill of sale! They *finally* agreed to the CAA
de-registration original form and a notarized affidavit from me stating that
I owned the aircraft *before* I brought it here.
Hence why I am reluctant to contact the FAA as to the nature of the
now-valid registration, ie Experimental or Light Sport or what.
A search of the word "Certificate" on the FAA website only returns
"Registration Certificate", which I have, and "Airworthiness Certificate",
which I'm not sure that I need, for an actual aircraft. Other certificates
are Airman, A&P, Medical, etc, but not a single occurrence of the word
"certificate" as a verb.
I've been to the Harrisburg FSDO several times - no one there knows of can
find out. Also spoke to the CMO (Certificate Management Office) in Colorado,
again no real answers.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 7:15 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot,
which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you
say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook
entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local
FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked
at the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will
only confuse you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to
"Certificate" the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to
US from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk
to my local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that
was imported from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
apply.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 7:15 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot,
which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you
say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook
entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local
FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked
at the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will
only confuse you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to
"Certificate" the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to
US from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk
to my local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that
was imported from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Pat,
I would be happy to help. I have a meeting to go to tonight and can give
some dimensions tomorrow. I'll tell give you a brief discription how I did
it. A friend gave me some basic measurements - height above the ground -
forward end of the forward mounting boltto the ground and the and track. I
then fixed the fuselage on a sawhorse level at that height and secured it.
I removed the tires and using the bare axles, I dropped a plumb line and
marked the floor exactly below the ends of the old tube gear. A line was
drawn through those line to give a fix on the wheel contact line in a fore
and aft direction. Then a plumb line down from the center of the fuselage
to give a center point on the wheel contact line. The total track was then
marked on that line to give the relative position of the ends of the axles.
I then used two lengths of 1X1X1/8" angle extending beyond the widest marks
on the line and welded a length of angle between them about 10" long. I now
had two parallel rails that were fixed to the floor with bondo with the line
between them. The plan is to use the rails to make fixtures on trollys that
fix the angle and location of the axles. Of angle iron and wood, I made
spacers about 1.3" high that rode on the rails essentially extending the
rail height that 1/3 inch. Then using tubing that exactly fit over the
axles, I welded up fixtures of angle iron that rode on the spacers to fix
the angle and location of the axle.
After the fixtures were finished. I removed the old landing gear, tapped out
the axles and using the fixtures without the spacers and mounted at the
appropriate distance on the rails positioned the axles at the desired
location for the new landing gear. The rest amounted to using the axles
mounted to the fixtures on the rails and the fuselage as a jig and cutting
and welding everything in place. Of course tack welding and then removing
to bench top height made the welding easier. I found that starting at the
axle and then working to the pivot points on the tops of the legs gave a
more accureate reslult given the warpage typical with welding.
The cabane strut was made pretty much the same way. I will send some detail
photos. For the spring strut, I used 3/4" .049 tubing and it wasn't until
after finishing the struts that I learned that the spring strut made for my
friend was 7/8 .049 tubing. These struts are commercially made and are
designed for airplanes heavier than the Model IV. I will stick with what I
have, but may go to the larger tubing if I make another set. The springs
themselves are available from Aircraft Spruce in their catalog. They are
heavy puppies and cost abour $90 per set.
I'll take a couple of photos of the jigs and track and send them also. Also
when welding up the final gear legs, I drilled and tapped holes in the jigs
through and into the tracks and placed bolts in them so nothing would move.
Questions - just ask. I doubt all this makes sense at first.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I will also say welcome back. By
the looks of the gear you built, you are an irreplaceable asset to a site
like this. You say your building again. I tell people I will be trying to
get out of the coffin to build something, anything. Do you happen to have
blueprints of the gear you built? Even rough skeches with dimensions and
material sizes?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:44 -0700> >
To the list:> > I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again
since flying > superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially
completed kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
available. I am > currently working on all the things I learned to wish I
had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attached compression spring
landing gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I
like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
The other major mod > is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing
them with an aluminum > leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the
stringer. I hope to > someday actually begin working on the airplane.
Pictures of the landing > gear attached.> > Glad to be back and active.> >
Lowell Fitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
> Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
> or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
> apply.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Bob, attached is part of a document explaining importing aircraft I copied off
the AOPA web site. If I understand what I read, your kitfox may be eligible for
US Experimental amateur built airwortheness certificate based on it having
previously been issued a certificate in the UK. You will need to havre it inspected
by the FAA or a DAR (Designated Airworthness Representitive).
Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may be a good idea.
They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US Government.
I found early on in my career that the only way to get results from bureaucrats
is what the military calls completed staff work. You have to know what needs
doing and do most of it yourself and give them the finished paperwork for
approval, or at least tell them what forms need to be filled out and where they
can find them. In other words, you have to know more about the subject than
they do.
Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of a DAR that
is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189479#189479
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/establishing_airworthiness_for_non_168.doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
> Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
> or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
> apply.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Bob, attached is part of a document explaining importing aircraft I copied off
the AOPA web site. If I understand what I read, your kitfox may be eligible for
US Experimental amateur built airwortheness certificate based on it having
previously been issued a certificate in the UK. You will need to havre it inspected
by the FAA or a DAR (Designated Airworthness Representitive).
Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may be a good idea.
They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US Government.
I found early on in my career that the only way to get results from bureaucrats
is what the military calls completed staff work. You have to know what needs
doing and do most of it yourself and give them the finished paperwork for
approval, or at least tell them what forms need to be filled out and where they
can find them. In other words, you have to know more about the subject than
they do.
Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of a DAR that
is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189484#189484
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/establishing_airworthiness_for_non_168.doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Steve=0AEach of your three staements is incomplete and best and blatently f
alse if taken as a true false test.=0AA private pilot can NOT fly a Trike o
r a Powered Parachute without instruction and signoff.- One of our lister
s died trying so I am a bit serious about- this being understood.=0ALikew
ise, a sport pilot can Not fly the whole range of light sport without check
outs in each type.=0AOnce any aircraft has had an adjustable prop on it, th
ere is no changing the registration to a Light sport,- thus a sport pilot
would not be legal to fly it.=0ASorry to be so picky but the Light Sport l
icense gives flying privedges for less training and less physical (medical)
but it is not so simple.- There are more extremely different types of ai
rcraft in the light sport catagory than there are in the general aviation c
atagory.- The control inputs for a Trike are the opposite of that for a s
tick and rudder plane and a powered parachute has a whole different set of
control inputs than either.=0ASo deciding how to register an aircraft requi
res may considerations that are specific to the aircraft its history, confo
rmance and potential and then the same has to be asked of the pilot; histor
y, conformance and potential.- The EAA had an article that listed the pro
cess for making the decision.- =0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original
Message ----=0AFrom: "Sbennett3(at)aol.com" <Sbennett3(at)aol.com>=0ATo: kitfox-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:53:19 PM=0ASubject: Re: K
itfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both?=0A
=0AA private pilot can fly a lsa airplane. A sport pilot can fly ANYTHING t
hat meets the guidelines for a light sport plane. I can only think of one a
dvantage in certifying EAB. That would be in flight adj prop. It would have
to be removed before a sport pilot could legally fly it.- Am I on the ri
ght page here?- I don't think it really matters how it's certified.- St
eve Bennett- Classic 4 1200 912ul. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficien
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patrick reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com> |
Lowell, Thanks for the quick detailed reply. I could follow the explainatio
n. Did you make jigs that allow you to produce the gear? It seems that with
the cost of Grove gear there would be a demand for your gear. Kits and com
plete gear sets might sell. I will wait for the remainding info. Where are
you located? Will you attend Oshkosh this year?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com> Su
bject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:43:58 -0700
> > Pat,> > I would be happy to help. I have a meeting to go to tonight and
can give > some dimensions tomorrow. I'll tell give you a brief discriptio
n how I did > it. A friend gave me some basic measurements - height above t
he ground - > forward end of the forward mounting boltto the ground and the
and track. I > then fixed the fuselage on a sawhorse level at that height
and secured it. > I removed the tires and using the bare axles, I dropped a
plumb line and > marked the floor exactly below the ends of the old tube g
ear. A line was > drawn through those line to give a fix on the wheel conta
ct line in a fore > and aft direction. Then a plumb line down from the cent
er of the fuselage > to give a center point on the wheel contact line. The
total track was then > marked on that line to give the relative position of
the ends of the axles.> > I then used two lengths of 1X1X1/8" angle extend
ing beyond the widest marks > on the line and welded a length of angle betw
een them about 10" long. I now > had two parallel rails that were fixed to
the floor with bondo with the line > between them. The plan is to use the r
ails to make fixtures on trollys that > fix the angle and location of the a
xles. Of angle iron and wood, I made > spacers about 1.3" high that rode on
the rails essentially extending the > rail height that 1/3 inch. Then usin
g tubing that exactly fit over the > axles, I welded up fixtures of angle i
ron that rode on the spacers to fix > the angle and location of the axle.>
> After the fixtures were finished. I removed the old landing gear, tapped
out > the axles and using the fixtures without the spacers and mounted at t
he > appropriate distance on the rails positioned the axles at the desired
> location for the new landing gear. The rest amounted to using the axles >
mounted to the fixtures on the rails and the fuselage as a jig and cutting
> and welding everything in place. Of course tack welding and then removin
g > to bench top height made the welding easier. I found that starting at t
he > axle and then working to the pivot points on the tops of the legs gave
a > more accureate reslult given the warpage typical with welding.> > The
cabane strut was made pretty much the same way. I will send some detail > p
hotos. For the spring strut, I used 3/4" .049 tubing and it wasn't until >
after finishing the struts that I learned that the spring strut made for my
> friend was 7/8 .049 tubing. These struts are commercially made and are >
designed for airplanes heavier than the Model IV. I will stick with what I
> have, but may go to the larger tubing if I make another set. The springs
> themselves are available from Aircraft Spruce in their catalog. They are
> heavy puppies and cost abour $90 per set.> > I'll take a couple of photo
s of the jigs and track and send them also. Also > when welding up the fina
l gear legs, I drilled and tapped holes in the jigs > through and into the
tracks and placed bolts in them so nothing would move.> > Questions - just
ask. I doubt all this makes sense at first.> > Lowell> > ----- Original Mes
sage ----- > From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com>> To: <kitfox-
list(at)matronics.com>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:25 PM> Subject: RE: Kitf
ox-List: New Model IV> > > > Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I wi
ll also say welcome back. By > the looks of the gear you built, you are an
irreplaceable asset to a site > like this. You say your building again. I t
ell people I will be trying to > get out of the coffin to build something,
anything. Do you happen to have > blueprints of the gear you built? Even ro
ugh skeches with dimensions and > material sizes?> > Pat Reilly> Mod 3 582
Rebuild> Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matroni
cs.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:
uld do it again > since flying > superceded the build experience, but then
when there is no > airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a
1992 partially > completed kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have
some parts that are > available. I am > currently working on all the things
I learned to wish I > had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attach
ed compression spring > landing gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under th
e grove gear weight and I > like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit
taller than the grove gear. > The other major mod > is the elimination of
the upper false ribs, replacing > them with an aluminum > leading edge from
the PVC leading edge aft to the > stringer. I hope to > someday actually b
egin working on the airplane. > Pictures of the landing > gear attached.> >
=================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Thanks Tom, that is the document I found on the FAA website and the one that
answers my original question(s). I plan to apply as Experimental since I
have no restrictions on my PPL or Medical Certificate, although it still
confuses me that the aircraft certificate should be determined by pilot
limitations and/or abilities and not aircraft's.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 9:59 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
> Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as
Experimental
> or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
> apply.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Bob, attached is part of a document explaining importing aircraft I copied
off the AOPA web site. If I understand what I read, your kitfox may be
eligible for US Experimental amateur built airwortheness certificate based
on it having previously been issued a certificate in the UK. You will need
to havre it inspected by the FAA or a DAR (Designated Airworthness
Representitive).
Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may be a good
idea. They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US
Government. I found early on in my career that the only way to get results
from bureaucrats is what the military calls completed staff work. You have
to know what needs doing and do most of it yourself and give them the
finished paperwork for approval, or at least tell them what forms need to be
filled out and where they can find them. In other words, you have to know
more about the subject than they do.
Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of a DAR
that is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189479#189479
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/establishing_airworthiness_for_non_168.do
c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> |
As I said, I had a great day Saturday. I attached a picture taken in flight at
85 MPH. If you use your imagination, I think you can see the position of the elevator
trailing edge down. I was pushing and it would seem like this un-faired
position might be adding drag. I would like to raise the leading edge of the
Horizontal stab, but have been told not to warp it (which it already is a bit
set in the middle hole) and I am not apt to cut and weld a longer strut.
As for the midrange skip, I had a two cycle guy move the needle valve. Was
it the jet needle, or the needle jet? The one with the four clip positions. He
moved it one notch and looked at the plugs after running it and then moved it
back in fear that it was running too hot. So I will leave those alone. I guess
I might play with the mixture screws; I have not touched those since changing
the idle jets.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189531#189531
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lead2_955.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom, that is the document I found on the FAA website and the one that
> answers my original question(s). I plan to apply as Experimental since I
> have no restrictions on my PPL or Medical Certificate, although it still
> confuses me that the aircraft certificate should be determined by pilot
> limitations and/or abilities and not aircraft's.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Yes Bob, it does get very confusing. The aircraft certificate is not determined
by the pilot limitations.
Any aircraft can be flow by a pilot that meets the "Sport Pilot Rules" if that
aircraft meets the "Definition" of a "Light Sport Aircraft" regardless of what
Certificate that Aircraft has.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189544#189544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
My spinner is as black as the day it was shipped. : ) It fit right
in with my paint scheme (or the other way around), so I left it as is.
Whenever I have the lower cowl off....oil change time of 25-30
hrs....I'll look at the springs, and if any are weak, I'll change
only that one, or those that are weak. My exhaust system is so well
secured (now) that the springs don't really do much. They never
break, and the fact that I have chosen to wrap the joints (between
exhaust pipe and muffler) with a heat-proof tape (Spruce #09-31500),
I think the heat that would cause them to weaken or break is reduced,
so they last a pretty long time. I don't think I've changed any of
them in 50-75 hours. I don't even safety wire them. Stainless would
probably be better, but in my case "if it ain't broke....."
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
On Jun 23, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>
> Define "need to change the springs" please Lynn - does that mean
> "broken" or
> "rusted" or "change interval is due"? Mine are rusted and one is
> broken and
> hanging on by the safety wire. If stainless is as strong and do their
> "spring" thing as well why use anything else?
>
> I agree with the fiberglass spinner - especially in front of a Jabiru
> cowling which is good-looking to begin with. Let me guess - white
> spinner
> and white cowl with fancy colored lettering? My M2 has J3 cub
> yellow with
> black go-faster stripes and the big radial cowling. With a 3-blade
> wood prop
> and gloss black spinner I think mine is darned good looking too :-)
> Except
> for the cracks in the spinner....
>
> Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 23 June 2008 3:49 pm
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs
> parts
> advice
>
>
> I've got a fiberglas spinner and no problems in 538 hours, and when I
> need to change the springs on my Jabiru exhaust pipes, I use ordinary
> cad-plated springs from the local hardware store. I get the 12" long
> springs and cut to the proper length, and re-form the ends.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have
>> recommendations on the
>> springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
>> composite?
>>
>> Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting
>> points
>> and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
>> replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume)
>> make
>> stainless look attractive.
>>
>> Any experience / opinions on these choices?
>>
>> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Keith Schneider are you there |
| From: | "Wahlquist, Dave" <dave.wahlquist(at)ics.uwex.edu> |
I am trying to contact Keith Schneider of Waynesville Ohio
via email. I tried to use your recent post email but it bounced. If you
are on list please contact me off list. I have some questions for you
about your recent rebuild project.
Thanks in advance.
Dave Wahlquist
Marshall WI
Kitfox Model III
Rotax 582
N844KF
________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com> |
wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA TCDS
example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a French DGAC
issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built requirements
and make application to FAA to certificate it.
contact me offline if you need help
David FAA DAR
Kitfox 3 and 7
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189574#189574
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
I believe the EAA website has a link to DAR's in all areas of the
country.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:59 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
You will need to havre it inspected by the FAA or a DAR (Designated
Airworthness Representitive).
>
> Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may
> be a good idea. They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
>
> For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US
> Government. I found early on in my career that the only way to get
> results from bureaucrats is what the military calls completed staff
> work. You have to know what needs doing and do most of it yourself
> and give them the finished paperwork for approval, or at least tell
> them what forms need to be filled out and where they can find
> them. In other words, you have to know more about the subject than
> they do.
>
> Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of
> a DAR that is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Frederick" <rick(at)5mike3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Hi David,
I saw this thread and figured I should ask the question...
I have a Kitfox IV with a rotax 912.
I'm about 50% done with; about to paint.
Is there anything special involved in getting an N-number?
It would be nice to be light sport but I was just planning to apply for
experimental (amature built).
Thanks Rick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
>
> wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
> Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
>
> Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA
> TCDS
> example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a
> French DGAC issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
>
> a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built
> requirements and make application to FAA to certificate it.
>
> contact me offline if you need help
>
> David FAA DAR
> Kitfox 3 and 7
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> |
I'm hoping someone can jog my memory, need to quite drinking that cheap wine.
I have a good memory but it's not very long. Anyway, came across a "note to
self" out in the shop " Check on outlet port location on fuel tanks. May need
to get a retrofit kit." I went thru all my Kifox literature, letters and bulletins
and find any reference for this. Does anyone have a clue? Leon Morris/Classic
4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Leon-
Aren't there any outlet ports right now? Mine are near the rear of
the tank, as low as seems possible, but they were there when I got
the tanks. Somebody will have the answer from their unmounted tanks,
but if not, I can measure mine.
I just looked at the pictures in the builders manual...pictures are
better than my memory....and they show the outlets to be in the very
back, inside lower corner. You'll have to carve out a notch in the
butt rib for the outlet fitting, and be sure to install a finger
strainer...MOST important! Also, if you haven't already, get a set of
fuel gauges from John McBean and install them. I'm pretty sure I got
mine after I installed the tanks, but it might be easier to do it
beforehand.
Disclaimer: Mine are the 13-gallon fiberglas tanks, so yours might be
different.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:15 PM, wrote:
>
> I'm hoping someone can jog my memory, need to quite drinking
> that cheap wine. I have a good memory but it's not very long.
> Anyway, came across a "note to self" out in the shop " Check on
> outlet port location on fuel tanks. May need to get a retrofit
> kit." I went thru all my Kifox literature, letters and bulletins
> and find any reference for this. Does anyone have a clue? Leon
> Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ross <john_ross25(at)yahoo.com> |
Ladies and Gentlemen,=0AI have purchased a Series 7 that is covered, painte
d, windscreen installed, and ready for an engine. The problem is that the a
ircraft was built with the weight of a 912 in mind.-Therefore the wings a
re swept back the 1-1/2 degrees that the plans call for. I know some of you
will think I am nuts, but I have-a 0-200 in the corner ready to go.-Wh
at adjustments need to be made to accommodate this heavy engine. If I-can
get the c/g where it needs to be, will the plane be handle well enough wit
h the reverse wing sweep?-The battery is already mounted to the front of
the firewall and I don't necessarily like the idea of moving it to the rear
.. But if it needs to be done, I will do it. Any replies would be helpful. T
hanks in advance.=0A-=0AJohn Ross=0AGreen Bay, WI.=0ASeries 7, O-200?-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> |
John
I was in the same situation only I was the builder planning to go with 912.
Then I had a change of heart, after the wing sweep had already been set,
and went with the 0-200 so I had to install the battery just behind the
luggage compartment , not the optimal spot as I was worried about battery
acid IF I were to have a hard landing or worse a crash. I ended up using a
gel type battery ,no acid to worry about just the weight of the battery
flying forward if something should happen. The battery is in a battery box
that is bolted in quite well ( but a bear to get at) so all in all it
worked out well and I have not been disappointed in the decision to use the
0-200. just my .02
Steve
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ross
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: W/B issues
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have purchased a Series 7 that is covered, painted, windscreen installed,
and ready for an engine. The problem is that the aircraft was built with the
weight of a 912 in mind. Therefore the wings are swept back the 1-1/2
degrees that the plans call for. I know some of you will think I am nuts,
but I have a 0-200 in the corner ready to go. What adjustments need to be
made to accommodate this heavy engine. If I can get the c/g where it needs
to be, will the plane be handle well enough with the reverse wing sweep? The
battery is already mounted to the front of the firewall and I don't
necessarily like the idea of moving it to the rear. But if it needs to be
done, I will do it. Any replies would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
John Ross
Green Bay, WI.
Series 7, O-200?
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ross <john_ross25(at)yahoo.com> |
Steve,=0AThe manual states that the battery should be located in the aft se
ction of the fuselage when using the 0-200. Your mount did not require any
balast?=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: steve eccles
=0ATo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, Jun
e 24, 2008 4:09:05 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: W/B issues=0A=0A=0AJohn
=0AI was in the same situation only I was the builder planning to go with 9
12. Then I -had a change of heart, after the wing sweep had already been
set, -and went with the 0-200 so I had to install the battery just behind
-the luggage compartment , not the optimal spot as I was worried about
-battery acid IF I were to have a hard landing or worse a crash. I ended
up using a gel type battery ,no acid to worry about just the weight of the
battery flying forward if something should happen. The battery is in a batt
ery box that is bolted in quite well ( but a bear to get at) so all in all
it -worked out well and I have not been disappointed in the decision to u
se the 0-200. just my .02=0ASteve=0A-=0AFrom:owner-kitfox-list-server@mat
ronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joh
n Ross=0ASent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 3:46 PM=0ATo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: W/B issues=0A-=0ALadies and Gentlemen,=0AI hav
e purchased a Series 7 that is covered, painted, windscreen installed, and
ready for an engine. The problem is that the aircraft was built with the we
ight of a 912 in mind.-Therefore the wings are swept back the 1-1/2 degre
es that the plans call for. I know some of you will think I am nuts, but I
have-a 0-200 in the corner ready to go.-What adjustments need to be mad
e to accommodate this heavy engine. If I-can get the c/g where it needs t
o be, will the plane be handle well enough with the reverse wing sweep?-T
he battery is already mounted to the front of the firewall and I don't nece
ssarily like the idea of moving it to the rear. But if it needs to be done,
I will do it. Any replies would be helpful. Thanks in advance.=0A-=0AJoh
n Ross=0AGreen Bay, WI.=0ASeries 7, O-200?--=0A-=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A
=======================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
| From: | "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com> |
to late, needed N reg by jan 31 08.
when you get certificated at the end of phase I, you will need to make a log entry
declaring a max or gross weight, make sure it is not above 1320 lbs
on wheels. I think a IV is 1200 max
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189644#189644
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Frederick" <rick(at)5mike3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
That's too late for "Light Sport"... right?
Or does this Jan 31st date affect registration of "Experimental amature
built" as well?
--Rick, Kitfox IV/ 912UL 50%
----- Original Message -----
From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
>
> to late, needed N reg by jan 31 08.
> when you get certificated at the end of phase I, you will need to make a
> log entry declaring a max or gross weight, make sure it is not above 1320
> lbs
> on wheels. I think a IV is 1200 max
>
> David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189644#189644
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Ok, I really do have a reserved N-Number N99FN. If I buy an old ultralight
and turn in the paperwork, can I make it a ELSA?
Pete
Kitfox III
912
Hell Paso, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
John,
The wing sweep for a 912 should be 0 degree sweep.. and the
O-200 1 degree forward.. If your is swept back 1.5 degrees there may be
other issues to consider. Putting the O-200 on the front with a zero degree
sweep is possible but if the wings are swept back I would be very cautious..
please give us a call if you have any questions.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ross
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: W/B issues
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have purchased a Series 7 that is covered, painted, windscreen installed,
and ready for an engine. The problem is that the aircraft was built with the
weight of a 912 in mind. Therefore the wings are swept back the 1-1/2
degrees that the plans call for. I know some of you will think I am nuts,
but I have a 0-200 in the corner ready to go. What adjustments need to be
made to accommodate this heavy engine. If I can get the c/g where it needs
to be, will the plane be handle well enough with the reverse wing sweep? The
battery is already mounted to the front of the firewall and I don't
necessarily like the idea of moving it to the rear. But if it needs to be
done, I will do it. Any replies would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
John Ross
Green Bay, WI.
Series 7, O-200?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ross <john_ross25(at)yahoo.com> |
John,=0AGood catch. The wings are set at Zero. That was-a typo. I will ca
ll you anyway. Thanks for your attention.=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original
Message ----=0AFrom: jdmcbean <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com>=0ATo: kitfox-li
st(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:17:43 PM=0ASubject: RE: K
itfox-List: W/B issues=0A=0A=0AJohn,=0A----------- Th
e wing sweep for a 912 should be 0 degree sweep.. and the O-200 1 degree fo
rward.. If your is swept back 1.5 degrees there may be other issues to cons
ider.- Putting the O-200 on the front with a zero degree sweep is possibl
e but if the wings are swept back I would be very cautious.. please give us
a call if you have any questions.=0A-=0AFly Safe !!=0AJohn & Debra McBea
n=0APh 208.337.5111=0Awww.kitfoxaircraft.com-=0A"The Sky is not the Limit
....- It's a Playground"=0A-=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A
From:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serve
r(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ross=0ASent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:46
PM=0ATo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: W/B issues=0A
-=0ALadies and Gentlemen,=0AI have purchased a Series 7 that is covered,
painted, windscreen installed, and ready for an engine. The problem is that
the aircraft was built with the weight of a 912 in mind.-Therefore the w
ings are swept back the 1-1/2 degrees that the plans call for. I know some
of you will think I am nuts, but I have-a 0-200 in the corner ready to go
..-What adjustments need to be made to accommodate this heavy engine. If I
-can get the c/g where it needs to be, will the plane be handle well enou
gh with the reverse wing sweep?-The battery is already mounted to the fro
nt of the firewall and I don't necessarily like the idea of moving it to th
e rear. But if it needs to be done, I will do it. Any replies would be help
ful. Thanks in advance.=0A-=0AJohn Ross=0AGreen Bay , WI .=0ASeries 7, O-
=============0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Rick,
You can reserve an available N-number online for $10 at
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg
istry/n_numbers/, find more info at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Frederick
Sent: 24 June 2008 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental
or both?
Hi David,
I saw this thread and figured I should ask the question...
I have a Kitfox IV with a rotax 912.
I'm about 50% done with; about to paint.
Is there anything special involved in getting an N-number?
It would be nice to be light sport but I was just planning to apply for
experimental (amature built).
Thanks Rick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
>
> wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
> Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
>
> Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA
> TCDS
> example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a
> French DGAC issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
>
> a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built
> requirements and make application to FAA to certificate it.
>
> contact me offline if you need help
>
> David FAA DAR
> Kitfox 3 and 7
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Frederick" <rick(at)5mike3.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Thanks for the info Bob!
I should probably do this now.
Rick, Kitfox IV/ 912ul 50%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental
or both?
>
>
> Rick,
>
> You can reserve an available N-number online for $10 at
> http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg
> istry/n_numbers/, find more info at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
> Frederick
> Sent: 24 June 2008 1:43 pm
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or
> Experimental
> or both?
>
>
> Hi David,
> I saw this thread and figured I should ask the question...
> I have a Kitfox IV with a rotax 912.
> I'm about 50% done with; about to paint.
> Is there anything special involved in getting an N-number?
> It would be nice to be light sport but I was just planning to apply for
> experimental (amature built).
>
> Thanks Rick.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:44 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
> both?
>
>
>>
>> wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
>> Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
>>
>> Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA
>> TCDS
>> example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a
>> French DGAC issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
>>
>> a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built
>> requirements and make application to FAA to certificate it.
>>
>> contact me offline if you need help
>>
>> David FAA DAR
>> Kitfox 3 and 7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K&MCozik <kcozik(at)cablespeed.com> |
| Subject: | Kitfox 914 fuel pressure monitoring |
Hi Darin,
Just curious what you're using to monitor fuel pressure over airbox pressure.
I
had a situation today where I was adding power for takeoff and couldn't get over
about 4400 rpms before the engine started sputtering out. After playing with the
carbs and looking things over only to get the same result, I happened to notice
the
manifold pressure would peak at about 46". Looks like this was cutting out the
fuel. It was getting dark so I had to tie it up on nearby lake and catch a ride
home but my guess is the waste gate is stuck closed. Adding TCP to the 100LL
didn't help much and auto fuel is out of the question here because of the ethanol.
Seriously considering an engine swap. Maybe a 120 hp Jabiru?
Can't wait to hear some of your performance numbers. Hopefully your experience
with this engine will be much better.
Kevin Cozik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "grcolquhoun(at)xtra.co.nz" <grcolquhoun(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Off Topic: Space Station----truly awesome pictures |
Wow - great pictures.
New Zealand below the space station - southern half of North island
and northern half of south island second frame thanks
Skystar Vixon
Thanks for sending the pics - they are great!
On 22/06/2008, at 4:37 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> Wow!
>> After you open the link be sure and hit the F11 button, makes the
>> pictures
>> high def.!
>>
>> Some of these picture will take your breath away...
>>
>>
>> They are the best I have seen.
>>
>> These are just in from the current (just landed) space mission. These
>> pixs
>> are so good that it makes one feel as if you are there taking the
>> pictures.
>> Maximize your viewing area by hitting the F11 button and enjoy.....
>>
>> -http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASA%20pix.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> -
>>
>>
>
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
| From: | "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily(at)comcast.net> |
Over-analyzing again; I plead guilty. It occurred to me that the minimum flap drag
at cruise speed is probably synonymous with the point of least resistance
for the flaps. In other words, if I relax the torque on the flap handle bolt
to the point where it no longer stays where I put it, the flaps will fair to the
point of least resistance (for the flaps, not necessarily the airplane as a
whole). I can mark where they go at cruise speed and that ought to be the least
drag setting for the flaps, and I suspect the airplane as a whole.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189727#189727
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAY Gignac <kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com> |
I just want to thank everyone on and off the list for the help over the yea
rs when I needed it for my Kitfox! I sold my fox to a new owner overseas.
I am not getting out of flying, just moving into a Sonex or RV. Everyone
take care.
Ray Gignac
_________________________________________________________________
Introducing Live Search cashback . It's search that pays you back!
http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=i
ntrosrchcashback
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
I have an IO-240B, with 1 degree forward sweep. I have a battery plus
ballast in the tail. Without the wing sweep I think balance might be a
real problem with my engine.
I think it is possible to change the wing sweep if you use the cuffs that
I think Murle Williams was selling.
Regards,
Jeff.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189749#189749
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instrument panel with
slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the tank has yellowed
and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty difficult, to
nearly impossible, to see the level.
The obvious question - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind available?
Putting a clear fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom of
the tank, is what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with
details?
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patrick reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com> |
Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Mod 3 that originally was built with a 912. I
am installing a 582. I already have moved the battery box to behind the fir
ewall from behind the seat. I know I will need to do a weight and balance w
hen I finish. Now I hear different engines (weight ) require different "win
g sweep". Will I need to alter my wing mounts to accomodate the 582. Why do
different engines require different wing sweep? Is it because the heavier
engine is so much heavier that weight and balance can not be brought into s
pec without changing center of lift by sweeping wings farther forward? I th
ink I have answered my own question here. I didn't really understand differ
ent wing sweep requirements until I formulated this question. I still would
n't mind confirmation of "wing sweep" characteristics. And, wonder if the b
uilding of the original kit called for different wing sweep for 912 vs. 582
engines? Or, if Mod 3 wing sweep was same for 912 and 582. Datum point or
W/B spec would not be same with different wing sweep, right?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: W/B issues> From: n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:37:08 -0700> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com> > -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: "n85ae" > > I have an IO-2
40B, with 1 degree forward sweep. I have a battery plus> ballast in the tai
l. Without the wing sweep I think balance might be a > real problem with my
engine.> > I think it is possible to change the wing sweep if you use the
cuffs that > I think Murle Williams was selling. > > Regards,> Jeff.> > > >
> Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
=============> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
On my B model Avid, I put a T in the fuel line under the tank and ran a cle
ar plastic hose up the door post on the left side. The fuel seeks it's own
level and so I can see the fuel level in the hose. I added fuel one gallo
n at a time and marked that level so I see the fuel amount there. The hose
is open at the top though so if I rolled the plane onto it's top I would h
ave fuel comming out of it which would not be good. If you wnted to drill
a hole in the tank near the top, you could put the hose into that hole with
the right rubber seal in the hole. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids, Ki
tfox 4 Mn> From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:11:54
rennan.name>> > My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instr
ument panel with> slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the t
ank has yellowed> and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty
difficult, to> nearly impossible, to see the level.> > The obvious questio
n - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind available?> Putting a clear
fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom of> the tank, is
what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with> details?> > Bob
Brennan> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville P
-========================
==> > >
_________________________________________________________________
The i=92m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.- For now, give amongst yourselves.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> |
Lynn- just found the info I was looking for,so will pass it on.It was in Service
Letter #45 under Fuel Quanity and Unusable Fuel, para.2.From the way I read
it,the older fuel tanks prior to 1 Sep 95 hadthe fuel outlet fittings at the
rear of the tank which can cause fuel starvation during long, steep, high-speed
descents withthe tanks low on fuel.Evidently there was a retrofit kit from
the "Old" company that would relocate the outlet ports to reduce their unusable
fuel quanity by about 2 1/2 gallons in a cruise attitude. Good news for those
flustrated fighter pilots types. It was part # 10678.000 and sold for $87.50
per tank back in 1995. I did get a set of fuel gauges from Merle Williams.---
Leon Morris
---- Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Leon-
> Aren't there any outlet ports right now? Mine are near the rear of
> the tank, as low as seems possible, but they were there when I got
> the tanks. Somebody will have the answer from their unmounted tanks,
> but if not, I can measure mine.
>
> I just looked at the pictures in the builders manual...pictures are
> better than my memory....and they show the outlets to be in the very
> back, inside lower corner. You'll have to carve out a notch in the
> butt rib for the outlet fitting, and be sure to install a finger
> strainer...MOST important! Also, if you haven't already, get a set of
> fuel gauges from John McBean and install them. I'm pretty sure I got
> mine after I installed the tanks, but it might be easier to do it
> beforehand.
> Disclaimer: Mine are the 13-gallon fiberglas tanks, so yours might be
> different.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:15 PM, wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm hoping someone can jog my memory, need to quite drinking
> > that cheap wine. I have a good memory but it's not very long.
> > Anyway, came across a "note to self" out in the shop " Check on
> > outlet port location on fuel tanks. May need to get a retrofit
> > kit." I went thru all my Kifox literature, letters and bulletins
> > and find any reference for this. Does anyone have a clue? Leon
> > Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model 2 fuel gauge |
| From: | "corbob13" <corbob13(at)netnet.net> |
Bob,
On my model II there's a light installed behind the tank near the sight gage.
To see the fuel level I flip a switch on the panel, the light comes on, and it's
easy to see the level of the fuel. I prefer this method to drilling holes
in the tank then sealing tubes, etc. for fear of leaks.
Cory
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189783#189783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
Pat,
The wing sweep came into existence with the Series 5 aircraft
when installing the heavier certified engines (O-200, IO-240 and Lycoming
O-235) The earlier models typically had a zero degree sweep.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: W/B issues
Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Mod 3 that originally was built with a 912. I
am installing a 582. I already have moved the battery box to behind the
firewall from behind the seat. I know I will need to do a weight and balance
when I finish. Now I hear different engines (weight ) require different
"wing sweep". Will I need to alter my wing mounts to accomodate the 582. Why
do different engines require different wing sweep? Is it because the heavier
engine is so much heavier that weight and balance can not be brought into
spec without changing center of lift by sweeping wings farther forward? I
think I have answered my own question here. I didn't really understand
different wing sweep requirements until I formulated this question. I still
wouldn't mind confirmation of "wing sweep" characteristics. And, wonder if
the building of the original kit called for different wing sweep for 912 vs.
582 engines? Or, if Mod 3 wing sweep was same for 912 and 582. Datum point
or W/B spec would not be same with different wing sweep, right?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: W/B issues
> From: n85ae(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:37:08 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I have an IO-240B, with 1 degree forward sweep. I have a battery plus
> ballast in the tail. Without the wing sweep I think balance might be a
> real problem with my engine.
>
> I think it is possible to change the wing sweep if you use the cuffs that
> I think Murle Williams was selling.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189749#189749
>
>
>
&=======================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ul sn 3792647 |
My Kitfox III has a 912ul sn 3792647 from about 1991 or 1992. What
should I expect for TBO. Should it be the same as newer 912's?
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Sweep & W/B issues |
Then from what I have read it sounds as though mounting a heavier engine
in an earlier model KF is possible if the wing sweep is changed and a
mew W&B completed. Is that correct?
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
KFM 112
----- Original Message -----
From: jdmcbean<mailto:jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: W/B issues
Pat,
The wing sweep came into existence with the Series 5
aircraft when installing the heavier certified engines (O-200, IO-240
and Lycoming O-235) The earlier models typically had a zero degree
sweep.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com<http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/>
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Sweep & W/B issues |
There are other factors involved.. and it was never an "Approved" or
"Suggested" modification to the earlier models. Especially the 1, 2 or 3's.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 2:45 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Sweep & W/B issues
Then from what I have read it sounds as though mounting a heavier engine in
an earlier model KF is possible if the wing sweep is changed and a mew W&B
completed. Is that correct?
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
KFM 112
----- Original Message -----
From: jdmcbean <mailto:jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: W/B issues
Pat,
The wing sweep came into existence with the Series 5 aircraft
when installing the heavier certified engines (O-200, IO-240 and Lycoming
O-235) The earlier models typically had a zero degree sweep.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> |
John
I guess I should have mentioned that have a series 5 and no to the ballast
. I did install the speedster package on my 5 so I think because of the ribs
that had to be installed on the , horizontal, elevator ,vertical and rudder
that might be why I did not need any. If I could do it all over I would have
put the battery under the horizontal stabilizer.
Steve
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ross
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: W/B issues
Steve,
The manual states that the battery should be located in the aft section of
the fuselage when using the 0-200. Your mount did not require any balast?
John
----- Original Message ----
From: steve eccles <eccles(at)Chartermi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:09:05 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: W/B issues
John
I was in the same situation only I was the builder planning to go with 912.
Then I had a change of heart, after the wing sweep had already been set,
and went with the 0-200 so I had to install the battery just behind the
luggage compartment , not the optimal spot as I was worried about battery
acid IF I were to have a hard landing or worse a crash. I ended up using a
gel type battery ,no acid to worry about just the weight of the battery
flying forward if something should happen. The battery is in a battery box
that is bolted in quite well ( but a bear to get at) so all in all it
worked out well and I have not been disappointed in the decision to use the
0-200. just my .02
Steve
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Ross
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: W/B issues
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have purchased a Series 7 that is covered, painted, windscreen installed,
and ready for an engine. The problem is that the aircraft was built with the
weight of a 912 in mind. Therefore the wings are swept back the 1-1/2
degrees that the plans call for. I know some of you will think I am nuts,
but I have a 0-200 in the corner ready to go. What adjustments need to be
made to accommodate this heavy engine. If I can get the c/g where it needs
to be, will the plane be handle well enough with the reverse wing sweep? The
battery is already mounted to the front of the firewall and I don't
necessarily like the idea of moving it to the rear. But if it needs to be
done, I will do it. Any replies would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
John Ross
Green Bay, WI.
Series 7, O-200?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Logan" <michael.logan(at)cox.net> |
If you flew with your flaps down, you would get fuel starvation with six
gallons in each tank. Don't ask me how I know.
Mike Logan
Series 5 NSI
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: outlet port
Lynn- just found the info I was looking for,so will pass it on.It was in
Service Letter #45 under Fuel Quanity and Unusable Fuel, para.2.From the way
I read it,the older fuel tanks prior to 1 Sep 95 hadthe fuel outlet fittings
at the rear of the tank which can cause fuel starvation during long, steep,
high-speed descents withthe tanks low on fuel.Evidently there was a retrofit
kit from the "Old" company that would relocate the outlet ports to reduce
their unusable fuel quanity by about 2 1/2 gallons in a cruise attitude.
Good news for those flustrated fighter pilots types. It was part # 10678.000
and sold for $87.50 per tank back in 1995. I did get a set of fuel gauges
from Merle Williams.--- Leon Morris
---- Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Leon-
> Aren't there any outlet ports right now? Mine are near the rear of
> the tank, as low as seems possible, but they were there when I got
> the tanks. Somebody will have the answer from their unmounted tanks,
> but if not, I can measure mine.
>
> I just looked at the pictures in the builders manual...pictures are
> better than my memory....and they show the outlets to be in the very
> back, inside lower corner. You'll have to carve out a notch in the
> butt rib for the outlet fitting, and be sure to install a finger
> strainer...MOST important! Also, if you haven't already, get a set of
> fuel gauges from John McBean and install them. I'm pretty sure I got
> mine after I installed the tanks, but it might be easier to do it
> beforehand.
> Disclaimer: Mine are the 13-gallon fiberglas tanks, so yours might be
> different.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:15 PM, wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm hoping someone can jog my memory, need to quite drinking
> > that cheap wine. I have a good memory but it's not very long.
> > Anyway, came across a "note to self" out in the shop " Check on
> > outlet port location on fuel tanks. May need to get a retrofit
> > kit." I went thru all my Kifox literature, letters and bulletins
> > and find any reference for this. Does anyone have a clue? Leon
> > Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message) |
| From: | "avtar412" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm running an EA 81 T in my Series 5 and very pleased with it. 2.2:1 PSRU and
performs very well. 72" WD prop and intercooler.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189883#189883
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
the reservation is an annual fee.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental
or both?
>
>
> Rick,
>
> You can reserve an available N-number online for $10 at
> http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg
> istry/n_numbers/, find more info at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
> Frederick
> Sent: 24 June 2008 1:43 pm
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or
> Experimental
> or both?
>
>
> Hi David,
> I saw this thread and figured I should ask the question...
> I have a Kitfox IV with a rotax 912.
> I'm about 50% done with; about to paint.
> Is there anything special involved in getting an N-number?
> It would be nice to be light sport but I was just planning to apply for
> experimental (amature built).
>
> Thanks Rick.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:44 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
> both?
>
>
>>
>> wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
>> Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
>>
>> Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA
>> TCDS
>> example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a
>> French DGAC issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
>>
>> a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built
>> requirements and make application to FAA to certificate it.
>>
>> contact me offline if you need help
>>
>> David FAA DAR
>> Kitfox 3 and 7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
It's only an annual fee to hold the number in reserve. I reserved mine in
advance and even though the registration (import from the UK) process took 9
months I was able to finally get the N number I wanted. I only paid one fee
because the number is now registered to me, or more specifically my Kitfox.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs
Sent: 26 June 2008 9:08 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental
or both?
the reservation is an annual fee.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental
or both?
>
>
> Rick,
>
> You can reserve an available N-number online for $10 at
>
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_reg
> istry/n_numbers/, find more info at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
> Frederick
> Sent: 24 June 2008 1:43 pm
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or
> Experimental
> or both?
>
>
> Hi David,
> I saw this thread and figured I should ask the question...
> I have a Kitfox IV with a rotax 912.
> I'm about 50% done with; about to paint.
> Is there anything special involved in getting an N-number?
> It would be nice to be light sport but I was just planning to apply for
> experimental (amature built).
>
> Thanks Rick.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dcsfoto" <david(at)kelm.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:44 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
> both?
>
>
>>
>> wow what fun My Kitfox 7 is " Experimental Liglt Sport"
>> Got my N number prior to the original Jan 31 08 deadline.
>>
>> Import Aircraft are new aircraft manufactured outside the US to a US FAA
>> TCDS
>> example Falcon 900EX coming to the US the first time,it arrives with a
>> French DGAC issued Export Certificate of Airworthiness.
>>
>> a Kitfox 2 only needs proof that it meets experimental amateur built
>> requirements and make application to FAA to certificate it.
>>
>> contact me offline if you need help
>>
>> David FAA DAR
>> Kitfox 3 and 7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Model 2 fuel gauge |
Thanks Cory - I had noticed that sunlight shining through the tank was the
only time I could actually see the fuel level accurately, but in the UK a
sunny day is not a normal thing!
Bob
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of corbob13
Sent: 25 June 2008 1:52 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 2 fuel gauge
Bob,
On my model II there's a light installed behind the tank near the sight
gage. To see the fuel level I flip a switch on the panel, the light comes
on, and it's easy to see the level of the fuel. I prefer this method to
drilling holes in the tank then sealing tubes, etc. for fear of leaks.
Cory
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189783#189783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
Thanks Jim - I think that is what I will do, although I will (somehow) make
sure the top of the tube returns to the top of the fuel tank. Somehow the
thought of having an unusual attitude incident is scary enough, having one
with fuel possibly spilling inside the cabin is *really* scary.
One thought though - my Kitfox is a taildragger and the amount of fuel shown
on the ground would be very different to that shown in level flight if the
tube is any distance aft of the tank. I suppose 2 scales on either side of
the tube should solve that problem.
One more general question to the group - are these sorts of modifications
technically legal on an Experimental Aircraft by the own who is not the
builder? On a Light Sport? I am still researching what "type" to certify my
UK-built Kitfox II as (pardon the dangling participle).
Bob
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy
Chuk
Sent: 25 June 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
On my B model Avid, I put a T in the fuel line under the tank and ran a
clear plastic hose up the door post on the left side. The fuel seeks it's
own level and so I can see the fuel level in the hose. I added fuel one
gallon at a time and marked that level so I see the fuel amount there. The
hose is open at the top though so if I rolled the plane onto it's top I
would have fuel comming out of it which would not be good. If you wnted to
drill a hole in the tank near the top, you could put the hose into that hole
with the right rubber seal in the hole. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids,
Kitfox 4 Mn
> From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:11:54 -0400
>
>
> My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instrument panel
with
> slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the tank has yellowed
> and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty difficult, to
> nearly impossible, to see the level.
>
> The obvious question - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind
available?
> Putting a clear fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom
of
> the tank, is what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with
> details?
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
&===================
>
>
>
_____
The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn
More <http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
Just looked in my newest (2002) CPS catalog and found what you need to plug
the hose back into the tank. Rubber tank
grommet ($.95) and an elbow tank fitting ($1.95) Price is no doubt higher
now, but it shouldn't break the bank. I should
have had the parts available when I changed the windshield, it would have b
een a lot easier to drill the hole in the tank
near the very top of the tank. On an experimental aircraft, anyone can do
any of the work on the plane, except for the
yearly conditional inspection. If the original builder has the repairmans
certifcate for that plane, he can also do the insp.
Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn
From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.nameTo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: K
itfox-List: Model 2 fuel gaugeDate: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:11:36 -0400
Thanks Jim - I think that is what I will do, although I will (somehow) make
sure the top of the tube returns to the top of the fuel tank. Somehow the
thought of having an unusual attitude incident is scary enough, having one
with fuel possibly spilling inside the cabin is *really* scary.
One thought though - my Kitfox is a taildragger and the amount of fuel show
n on the ground would be very different to that shown in level flight if th
e tube is any distance aft of the tank. I suppose 2 scales on either side o
f the tube should solve that problem.
One more general question to the group - are these sorts of modifications t
echnically legal on an Experimental Aircraft by the own who is not the buil
der? On a Light Sport? I am still researching what "type" to certify my UK-
built Kitfox II as (pardon the dangling participle).
Bob
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy ChukSent: 25 June 2008 11:45 am
On my B model Avid, I put a T in the fuel line under the tank and ran a cle
ar plastic hose up the door post on the left side. The fuel seeks it's own
level and so I can see the fuel level in the hose. I added fuel one gallo
n at a time and marked that level so I see the fuel amount there. The hose
is open at the top though so if I rolled the plane onto it's top I would h
ave fuel comming out of it which would not be good. If you wnted to drill
a hole in the tank near the top, you could put the hose into that hole with
the right rubber seal in the hole. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids, Ki
tfox 4 Mn> From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:11:54
rennan.name>> > My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instr
ument panel with> slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the t
ank has yellowed> and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty
difficult, to> nearly impossible, to see the level.> > The obvious questio
n - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind available?> Putting a clear
fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom of> the tank, is
what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with> details?> > Bob
Brennan> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville P
a> &====================> > >
The i=92m Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Lear
n More
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
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arncashback
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
Thanks again Jim - you also mentioned "changed the windshield" below which
brings up another important point. My windshield stress-cracked at the bend
point in the top corner so I drilled a small hole at the end to stop further
cracking and covered the crack with prop tape. Now the other side has
cracked in the same way which is why I was looking for a source for prop
tape several emails ago - which I will now buy from the McBeans.
The repair passed the UK Permit To Fly annual inspection and I will find out
next week if my Airworthiness inspector will accept it, but assuming not -
how difficult was it to replace the windshield and where did you get it? I
suspect you have to template and bend it yourself, and a previous owner
didn't heat the bend properly to relieve stress, but that's a detail I will
ask about as needs be.
Bob
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy
Chuk
Sent: 26 June 2008 11:05 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
Just looked in my newest (2002) CPS catalog and found what you need to plug
the hose back into the tank. Rubber tank
grommet ($.95) and an elbow tank fitting ($1.95) Price is no doubt higher
now, but it shouldn't break the bank. I should
have had the parts available when I changed the windshield, it would have
been a lot easier to drill the hole in the tank
near the very top of the tank. On an experimental aircraft, anyone can do
any of the work on the plane, except for the
yearly conditional inspection. If the original builder has the repairmans
certifcate for that plane, he can also do the insp.
Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn
_____
From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:11:36 -0400
Thanks Jim - I think that is what I will do, although I will (somehow) make
sure the top of the tube returns to the top of the fuel tank. Somehow the
thought of having an unusual attitude incident is scary enough, having one
with fuel possibly spilling inside the cabin is *really* scary.
One thought though - my Kitfox is a taildragger and the amount of fuel shown
on the ground would be very different to that shown in level flight if the
tube is any distance aft of the tank. I suppose 2 scales on either side of
the tube should solve that problem.
One more general question to the group - are these sorts of modifications
technically legal on an Experimental Aircraft by the own who is not the
builder? On a Light Sport? I am still researching what "type" to certify my
UK-built Kitfox II as (pardon the dangling participle).
Bob
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy
Chuk
Sent: 25 June 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
On my B model Avid, I put a T in the fuel line under the tank and ran a
clear plastic hose up the door post on the left side. The fuel seeks it's
own level and so I can see the fuel level in the hose. I added fuel one
gallon at a time and marked that level so I see the fuel amount there. The
hose is open at the top though so if I rolled the plane onto it's top I
would have fuel comming out of it which would not be good. If you wnted to
drill a hole in the tank near the top, you could put the hose into that hole
with the right rubber seal in the hole. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids,
Kitfox 4 Mn
> From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge
> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:11:54 -0400
>
>
> My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instrument panel
with
> slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the tank has yellowed
> and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty difficult, to
> nearly impossible, to see the level.
>
> The obvious question - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind
available?
> Putting a clear fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom
of
> the tank, is what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with
> details?
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
&===================
>
>
>
_____
The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn
More <http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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ack>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Model 2 fuel gauge |
I changed the windshield out in one afternoon. I bought some .60 lexan fro
m a local commercial glass installer. It actually
cost me half of what it would have been from ACS. I used the old windshiel
d for a pattern and cut and drilled the new one
and used large head aluminum pop rivets with a small washer under the rib s
o it wouldn't pull through. Worked fine for me.
I didn't use any heat to form the compound bends either. Jim Chuk Avids
Kitfox 4 Mn
From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.nameTo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: K
itfox-List: Model 2 fuel gaugeDate: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:27:21 -0400
Thanks again Jim - you also mentioned "changed the windshield" below which
brings up another important point. My windshield stress-cracked at the bend
point in the top corner so I drilled a small hole at the end to stop furth
er cracking and covered the crack with prop tape. Now the other side has cr
acked in the same way which is why I was looking for a source for prop tape
several emails ago - which I will now buy from the McBeans.
The repair passed the UK Permit To Fly annual inspection and I will find ou
t next week if my Airworthiness inspector will accept it, but assuming not
- how difficult was it to replace the windshield and where did you get it?
I suspect you have to template and bend it yourself, and a previous owner d
idn't heat the bend properly to relieve stress, but that's a detail I will
ask about as needs be.
Bob
Bob Brennan1991 Model 2 KitfoxRotax 582 with 3 blade propWrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy ChukSent: 26 June 2008 11:05 am
Just looked in my newest (2002) CPS catalog and found what you need to plug
the hose back into the tank. Rubber tank grommet ($.95) and an elbow tank
fitting ($1.95) Price is no doubt higher now, but it shouldn't break the
bank. I should have had the parts available when I changed the windshield,
it would have been a lot easier to drill the hole in the tanknear the very
top of the tank. On an experimental aircraft, anyone can do any of the wo
rk on the plane, except for the yearly conditional inspection. If the orig
inal builder has the repairmans certifcate for that plane, he can also do t
he insp.Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn
From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.nameTo: kitfox-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: K
itfox-List: Model 2 fuel gaugeDate: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:11:36 -0400
Thanks Jim - I think that is what I will do, although I will (somehow) make
sure the top of the tube returns to the top of the fuel tank. Somehow the
thought of having an unusual attitude incident is scary enough, having one
with fuel possibly spilling inside the cabin is *really* scary.
One thought though - my Kitfox is a taildragger and the amount of fuel show
n on the ground would be very different to that shown in level flight if th
e tube is any distance aft of the tank. I suppose 2 scales on either side o
f the tube should solve that problem.
One more general question to the group - are these sorts of modifications t
echnically legal on an Experimental Aircraft by the own who is not the buil
der? On a Light Sport? I am still researching what "type" to certify my UK-
built Kitfox II as (pardon the dangling participle).
Bob
Bob Brennan1991 Model 2 KitfoxRotax 582 with 3 blade propWrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy ChukSent: 25 June 2008 11:45 am
On my B model Avid, I put a T in the fuel line under the tank and ran a cle
ar plastic hose up the door post on the left side. The fuel seeks it's own
level and so I can see the fuel level in the hose. I added fuel one gallo
n at a time and marked that level so I see the fuel amount there. The hose
is open at the top though so if I rolled the plane onto it's top I would h
ave fuel comming out of it which would not be good. If you wnted to drill
a hole in the tank near the top, you could put the hose into that hole with
the right rubber seal in the hole. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avids, Ki
tfox 4 Mn> From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 fuel gauge> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:11:54
rennan.name>> > My 1991 Model II has the plastic fuel tank behind the instr
ument panel with> slits in the panel to see the fuel level. Over time the t
ank has yellowed> and is pretty much the color of the fuel, so it is pretty
difficult, to> nearly impossible, to see the level.> > The obvious questio
n - is there a fuel gauge retrofit of any kind available?> Putting a clear
fuel "tube" on the panel, connected to the top and bottom of> the tank, is
what comes to mind. Does anyone have a good solution, with> details?> > Bob
Brennan> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville P
a> &====================> > >
The i=92m Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Lear
n More
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i=92m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mic thiessen <wannaflyfox4(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message) |
to al subaru runners
I am also running an EA81 with a 2.17 : 1 gear redrive (ross aero)....I jus
t had Ram Engines from Ohio work on my engine and bumped it up to 113 hp...
since getting it back and put back in I have been plaqued with over heating
probalems...both oil and water,,, The water rad is under the belly just ba
ck from the seat....i moved the oil rad to the same place hoping to get som
e extra cooling for the oil...it helped but not enough...my temp is running
about 200-210 for the water and 210-220 for the oil...any ideas or suggest
ions....Ram engines thinks that with the extra power the redrive is the cul
prit(they probably want to sell me theirs)...I run an Ivo medium 2 blade in
flight adjustable...cruise rpm is 4-4400...Ideas???????????????????
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message)> From: janderso
n412(at)hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:28:52 -0700> To: kitfox-list@ma
hotmail.com>> > I'm running an EA 81 T in my Series 5 and very pleased with
it. 2.2:1 PSRU and performs very well. 72" WD prop and intercooler.> > > >
> Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
=============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crosswor
d puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have a Vixen (Series 5). When I purchased the plane I felt the rudder was a
bit tight. I guess I got used to it. Over time my rudder started getting stiffer
and stiffer. It turned out to be the rudder pedal bushings. They were almost
locked in place. I had to actually machine them down a little bit to make
them fit without binding. The difference was amazing. ...smooth an easy!
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189973#189973
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com> |
like I said a few days a go.....
> Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Rudder seems stiff
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> on the ground all controls should be free and easy.
> elevator should fall with gravity. Rudder should be totally free. IF not something
is binding and that is not good.
>
> In the air all controls will get "stiffer" with speed.
>
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189978#189978
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
If you have a Maule tailwheel it might have too many friction washers in it.
See if the tailwheel is the culprit.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189985#189985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
If your rudder is stiff for more than 4 hours, please see a doctor.
Sorry I couldnt resist.
Pete
Kitfox III
912 ul
Hell Paso, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <wingsdown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message) |
Can you post a pic of your current set up along with some reference for
measurements?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mic
thiessen
Sent: 2008-06-26 11:32
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message)
to al subaru runners
I am also running an EA81 with a 2.17 : 1 gear redrive (ross aero)....I
just had Ram Engines from Ohio work on my engine and bumped it up to 113
hp...since getting it back and put back in I have been plaqued with over
heating probalems...both oil and water,,, The water rad is under the
belly just back from the seat....i moved the oil rad to the same place
hoping to get some extra cooling for the oil...it helped but not
enough...my temp is running about 200-210 for the water and 210-220 for
the oil...any ideas or suggestions....Ram engines thinks that with the
extra power the redrive is the culprit(they probably want to sell me
theirs)...I run an Ivo medium 2 blade in flight adjustable...cruise rpm
is 4-4400...Ideas???????????????????
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message)
> From: janderson412(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:28:52 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I'm running an EA 81 T in my Series 5 and very pleased with it. 2.2:1
PSRU and performs very well. 72" WD prop and intercooler.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189883#189883
>
==========
>
>
>
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
Hi all,
I am doing some repairs that require undoing some "safety wire". Where does
one get replacement "safety wire" and if it's at the local hardware store
what are the specs?
I also notice that the existing wire is *very* neatly twisted and tucked
away, is there a special tool for this or was the builder just really good
with pliers?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Frederick" <rick(at)5mike3.com> |
Hi Bob ,
There are many sources for safety wire and pliers.
I got mine from spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/wireTwister.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safetywire.php
The size of wire depends on your application.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Rick Kitfox IV/ 912ul 50%
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 1:48 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Safety Wire
Hi all,
I am doing some repairs that require undoing some "safety wire". Where
does one get replacement "safety wire" and if it's at the local hardware
store what are the specs?
I also notice that the existing wire is *very* neatly twisted and
tucked away, is there a special tool for this or was the builder just
really good with pliers?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> |
Aircraft Spruce ,, Aviall, local airport ,
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Safety Wire
Hi all,
I am doing some repairs that require undoing some "safety wire". Where does
one get replacement "safety wire" and if it's at the local hardware store
what are the specs?
I also notice that the existing wire is *very* neatly twisted and tucked
away, is there a special tool for this or was the builder just really good
with pliers?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> |
Does anyone know the number of the rudder pulley for the Model IV?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
Safety wire pliers are not needed at all, I did Zillions without any in the
Navy once you get the technique you will find that you can hand twist
very easily. Less chance of breaking the wire as well. It's great for
building callouses as well. The cost of the pliers just to maintain a
single small plane isn't worth it.
The wire does not need to be guitar string tight, it just needs to be snug
enough to prevent the fastener from coming undone.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190135#190135
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
Thanks Rick,
I have ordered the special pliers and both sizes of 25ft wire, cheap enough.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Frederick
Sent: 27 June 2008 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Safety Wire
Hi Bob ,
There are many sources for safety wire and pliers.
I got mine from spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/wireTwister.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safetywire.php
The size of wire depends on your application.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Rick Kitfox IV/ 912ul 50%
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 1:48 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Safety Wire
Hi all,
I am doing some repairs that require undoing some "safety wire". Where does
one get replacement "safety wire" and if it's at the local hardware store
what are the specs?
I also notice that the existing wire is *very* neatly twisted and tucked
away, is there a special tool for this or was the builder just really good
with pliers?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pulley's |
Yes.
Oh, I'll bet you wanted to KNOW the number, eh Clint? Sorry, I
couldn't resist...my parts book shows it to be 93015.000. Now that is
Skystar's part number, but in the description of the part it is
"Pulley ; A223 / Rudder Cable Guide"
Spruce shows a #A223 as "with plain phenolic bore..." I'd go to
their page 143 and check it out before buying to be sure it's the
same size, because SS might have "switched boats in the middle of the
stream."
John McBean probably has them, and would know if a change had been made.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 27, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> Does anyone know the number of the rudder pulley for the Model IV?_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Frederick" <rick(at)5mike3.com> |
Hi Bob,
Jeff is absolutely correct. You can do a very nice job of twisting safety
wire without the special pliers (probably using some tool to clamp the wire
ends; like vice grips).
I should have prefaced my post by saying that I am a novice and mostly do
work on my Mooney and now building my Kitfox.
I happen to find the cost of the pliers well worth it, i think i paid about
$20 for mine and it came with 2 spools of wire.
Regards, Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
>
> Safety wire pliers are not needed at all, I did Zillions without any in
> the
> Navy once you get the technique you will find that you can hand twist
> very easily. Less chance of breaking the wire as well. It's great for
> building callouses as well. The cost of the pliers just to maintain a
> single small plane isn't worth it.
>
> The wire does not need to be guitar string tight, it just needs to be snug
> enough to prevent the fastener from coming undone.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190135#190135
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> |
93015.000 in stock.. $4.51
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rudder pulley's
Does anyone know the number of the rudder pulley for the Model IV?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
I am more than a novice, at least when it comes to doing repairs on an
aircraft, this being my first encounter with safety wires. I am no novice to
safety though, and when I see neatly twisted and tucked SAFETY wires I do my
best to make sure my replacement is at least as good. And SAFE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Frederick
Sent: 27 June 2008 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
Hi Bob,
Jeff is absolutely correct. You can do a very nice job of twisting safety
wire without the special pliers (probably using some tool to clamp the wire
ends; like vice grips).
I should have prefaced my post by saying that I am a novice and mostly do
work on my Mooney and now building my Kitfox.
I happen to find the cost of the pliers well worth it, i think i paid about
$20 for mine and it came with 2 spools of wire.
Regards, Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
>
> Safety wire pliers are not needed at all, I did Zillions without any in
> the
> Navy once you get the technique you will find that you can hand twist
> very easily. Less chance of breaking the wire as well. It's great for
> building callouses as well. The cost of the pliers just to maintain a
> single small plane isn't worth it.
>
> The wire does not need to be guitar string tight, it just needs to be snug
> enough to prevent the fastener from coming undone.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190135#190135
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vetdrem" <vetdrem(at)hotmail.com> |
Pretty is nice, but if it isn't done correctly, you might as well not do it.
Here is a link that does a pretty good job of showing the correct way to safety
wire things.
http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html
It REALLY is important to do it right.
Louie
model 3 912ul
soon to be on aerocet 1100 amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190180#190180
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
| From: | "nick4853" <nweiskopf(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks for all the suggestions. I Jacked the tail up everything seemed pretty
easy and smooth no noticeable binding or friction. I took the pedals off and
gusseted with 4130. Going to install tomorrow. After I took the pedals off I
was able to pull the rudder easily with my hands using the cables. Another
question What should I lubricate the rudder pedal pivot bushings with?
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190185#190185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
Thanks Louie - that link is excellent and I couldn't agree more about doing
the job as best as possible.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vetdrem
Sent: 27 June 2008 9:18 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
Pretty is nice, but if it isn't done correctly, you might as well not do it.
Here is a link that does a pretty good job of showing the correct way to
safety wire things.
http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html
It REALLY is important to do it right.
Louie
model 3 912ul
soon to be on aerocet 1100 amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190180#190180
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 912S Oil and Coolant |
| From: | "wadegreaves" <reinagreaves(at)comcast.net> |
About ready to fire up my 912S.
Even though Rotax publishes a list of recommended oils, what are people using that
are the most readily available without having to have them shipped? Looking
for one of the ones on the list that can be bought at the auto parts store
level (Napa, etc...)
Also, the same question goes for coolant.
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190204#190204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAY Gignac <kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 912S Oil and Coolant |
You can go to your local motorcycle store like Honda or yamaha and buy semi
synthetic it has the require gear add to it. Coolant get Dexcool but use
the stuff you have to mix 50/50 it will be orange.> Subject: Kitfox-List: 9
12S Oil and Coolant> From: reinagreaves(at)comcast.net> Date: Fri=2C 27 Jun 20
posted by: "wadegreaves" > > About ready to fire
up my 912S.> Even though Rotax publishes a list of recommended oils=2C wha
t are people using that are the most readily available without having to ha
ve them shipped? Looking for one of the ones on the list that can be bought
at the auto parts store level (Napa=2C etc...)> Also=2C the same question
goes for coolant.> Thanks!> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://
-========================
===> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912S Oil and Coolant |
I know that there will be a bunch of different replies on this. My suggestion
is to "bite the bullet" and use a Rotax recommended oil. In my case I am now
using the new Aeroshell Plus 4 which was designed for the Rotax 912/914 (the
primary oil used at Lockwood for thier flight school)
You have too much money tied up in your engine to use a lesser than
recommended oil. As they said in the Rotax school, this engine (like all others)
lives
on oil.
This stuff is 'sporty' in price. It cost about $68 (12 bottles) plus $14.42
for shipping (took about 5 days to get it) but to me, it is worth it. No way I
will use other than Rotax oil filters either after seeing the damage other
filters can possibly do to the engine (again during Rotax school)
The coolant is not so difficult as you can get Dex-cool in any auto store.
It runs nice and cool in my application.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Rotax 912UL
Pensacola,Fl
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Olson <n113gb(at)yahoo.com> |
Gents,
I have a brand new/never run Great Plains 2276 VW with a valley 1:6/1 redrive for
sale. It was my intention to use it on my Series 7 tri-gear, but I have since
decided to use the full gross weight capability of the 7 and change my plans
for light sport. Therefore I am offering up my FWF package for sale. You can
check out the specifics at barnstormers.com it is listed under VW conversions.
Feel free to contact me with any questions. Thanks.
Gary Olson
Series 7 tri-gear
Oshkosh, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve eccles" <eccles(at)Chartermi.net> |
Louie I agree completely a loose safety wire can wear through a attach point
a lot faster than you think, especially if it a softer metal. A good safety
wire pliers will run around a 100.00 but I have seen guys who can safety
just as fast by hand and look better than if you had used a pliers. just my
.02
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vetdrem
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 8:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
Pretty is nice, but if it isn't done correctly, you might as well not do it.
Here is a link that does a pretty good job of showing the correct way to
safety wire things.
http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html
It REALLY is important to do it right.
Louie
model 3 912ul
soon to be on aerocet 1100 amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190180#190180
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "william Mills" <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
One thing not mentioned at WhizWheels is the 6-8 twists per inch as called
for in the AC 43.13-2A. Your DAR or FAA inspector could gig you on this.
WhizWheels merely says:
"Twists should be tight and even, and the wire between nuts as taut as
possible *without over-twisting*."
Bill
Chinook/912ul in progress
lurking still
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Bob Brennan
wrote:
> matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
>
> Thanks Louie - that link is excellent and I couldn't agree more about doing
> the job as best as possible.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vetdrem
> Sent: 27 June 2008 9:18 pm
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Safety Wire
>
>
> Pretty is nice, but if it isn't done correctly, you might as well not do
> it.
>
> Here is a link that does a pretty good job of showing the correct way to
> safety wire things.
> http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html
>
> It REALLY is important to do it right.
>
> Louie
> model 3 912ul
> soon to be on aerocet 1100 amphibs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190180#190180
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
Safety wire is usually a monofilament stainless steel wire that comes in
various thicknwsses form somewhere in the .018in to .065 in and no doubt
heavier than that. For most applications I use .032 and .045 where called
for.
If your lock wiring looks neat then it is probably properly done. Any
lockwiring beats no lockwiring at all. When I learned lock wiring we were
only allowed to use duckbill pliers and they had to be covered with tape to
prevent nicking the lockwire. I've seen expert installation of wire done
with everything from the duckbills to side cuts and of course there are the
lockwire pliers that have the pull knob on the back to twist the wire. If
you are doing lost of wiring then I'd suggest getting several pairs in
different sizes and make sure they are all reversing. For yourself where
you will probably only be wiring one machine, duckbills will probably
suffice.
If you can scrape up a copy of AC43.13, available online from the FAA, in
pdf format, there is a nice section on lockwiring. They sho9w how to do
different types of wiring including filters, props and turnbuckles.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 3:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Safety Wire
Hi all,
I am doing some repairs that require undoing some "safety wire". Where does
one get replacement "safety wire" and if it's at the local hardware store
what are the specs?
I also notice that the existing wire is *very* neatly twisted and tucked
away, is there a special tool for this or was the builder just really good
with pliers?
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
If you are just getting into safetying or lockwiring get someone who is
trained to show you the ropes (pun not intended). There are a few tricks to
keeping everything tight without breaking the wires and most important is
finishing th