FOR WHAT IT'S
      WORTH
      
 
      
AC43.13-1A Change 3 specifically recommends   AGAINST
      soldered
      fittings in an aircraft.  Listed reasons in Paragraph 450
      are; 
      
 
      
1. more skilled operator is required (not really a problem in my
      mind,
      we'll all take the time to do it right.)
      
 
      
2.  A corrosive flux may be used causing the joint to
      deteriorate.  (if deterioration is inside coupling, etc, it's very
      hard to
      see on inspection and have you ever tried to solder with fluxless
      solder? 
      See NO. 1)
      
 
      
3.  Maintenance is extremely difficult. (true)
      
 
      
4.  the wire strands are stiffened by the solder and become
      more
      susceptible to breakage due to vibration.(VERY TRUE)
      
 
      
5.  the wire insulation may be charred (and made brittle)
      during the
      soldering process.
      
 
      
PERSONAL THOUGHT:    Having soldered connections in
      the past
      in a number of applications in cars, trucks, motor cycles, trailers,
      etc, I
      would not do so in an aircraft.  The biggest problem I've
      experienced is
      corrosion with breakage running 2nd.  Even if the wire and parts
      are thoroughly cleaned and
      soldered with no
      flux, it seems as if any moisture (even inside where it is not exposed
      to
      weather) will cause corrosion over the long run.  
      
 
      
Also, why make the soldered joint any stronger than the wire
      itself. 
      It needs only to be AS strong as the wire.
      
 
      
Tom King
      
124 King Dome
      Road
Our name is
      King, our house is a Dome, and it's OUR
      road! 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
Subject: 
cables
      
      
      
      << Any time you solder a cable into a fitting of any type, a major
       problem is the solder failing and the fitting pulling off. Here is a way 
       to reduce the likeihood of that happening:  >>
      
      
         Just to expand in Mr. Poops' thought:  I worry about those teeny tiny set
      screws that hold the throttle cable and the choke cable into that U shaped
      fitting that goes over the flat part of the lever.  I have probably lost half
      a dozen of the allen keys that come with the fitting.  Anyway I went to the
      local bike shop and got a thing that looks like a brass barel with a screw on
      one end.  The barrel is drilled and the cable goes through it, you tighten
      down on the screw and it holds the cable.  I put these on both the throttle
      and the choke on the downstream side..  That way if the little set screw in
      the fitting lets go the cable wont let go altogether and I'll still have some
      controll.  A kind of redundant keeper.   It would really be annoying to have
      to do a forced landing with a perfectly good engine that wouldn't do more idle
      because the cable let go.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
T Swartz <Tswartz(at)mail.ptd.net>
Subject: 
(no subject)
      
      Richard
      
      Where did you mount you ELT and ELT antenna?  I'm not real pleased with
      my installation.  I liked your ideas on you com radio and GPS.
      
      Terry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
"ernest l. hagness" <ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net>
Subject: 
work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      
      I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: 
FW: work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
      
      I used plywood screwed to a steel door for the surfaces and scrap 3x3
      square steel stock with duct tape over it for the wings.  The main point
      is not to let any twist into anything, it does not need to be level just
      not twisted.
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        ernest l. hagness [SMTP:ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net]
      > Sent:        Wednesday, April 01, 1998 3:50 PM
      > To:        Kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject:        work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      > 
      > I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4"
      > x
      > 4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and
      > tail
      > surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      > work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work.
      > Will
      > appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      > Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      > ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
Kim Steiner <steiner(at)spreda.sk.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Cameras
      
      I use an old basic Pentax K 1000 SLR with  100 mm portrait lens.  This lens
      seems to be about right for shots of yards and the like.  I tape my focus
      ring at infinity.  I set my aperture  and shutter speed when I am up in the
      air at a safe altitude.  I use a remote squeeze bulb with a four foot air
      tube.  I tape the  bulb to my joy stick.  This set up has worked good in my
      old Ultrastar and in my Mark 111.
      
      Brian Kim Steiner
      
      Saskatchewan, Canada 
      Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 4551867 or,
      * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center:
      http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4551867 (go there and try it!) or,
      * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen
      4551867(at)pager.mirabilis.com
      For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
      For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to:
      http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html
      Brian "Kim" Steiner
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
Subject: 
"ernest l. hagness" : 
              work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
      From: "ernest l. hagness" <ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net>
      Subject: Kolb-List: work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 17:49:37 -0600
      
      I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      
      
      Ernest
      For building a F/S II, I used 3/4" partical board 4'x12'. Top was framed
      with 2"x 6" around primemter,and and every 4' spandwise. 6 legs were out
      of 6"x 6".  I braced the bottom of the legs with 1" x 4".  I drilled a
      hole in the bottom of each leg, and installed a bolt , nut/washer there.
      This allows you to adjust for uneven floors.  This worked for me building
      a F/S II, wings ailerons/ tail feathers were all built on this table with
      no problems.
      Bob Doebler 
      
      --------- End forwarded message ----------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Thomas L. King" <kingdome(at)tcac.net>
Subject: 
Soldered cables
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
      
      
      OOPS!!!
      
      In an earlier msg, I referenced ac43.13 about soldered cables.  Due to
      the fact that at the moment I happen to be working with some 04 gauge
      ELECTRICAL cable on automotive application, that was what I started
      thinking about.
      
      Now, about soldered CONTROL cables.  The same ref. has some good advice
      about that too.
      See para 197, b. Wrap-Soldered terminal.    There are some pretty
      specific methods to be used, and they make the point that a soldered
      terminal will only have about 90% of the cable strength.
      
      Someone commented on heating cable to red hot for soldering.  AC43.13
      para 195,b. Cutting and heating.  "Do not subject wires and cables to
      excessive temperature.  Soldering bonding braid to control cable will
      not be considered satisfactory."
      
      
      Tom
      124 King Dome Road
      Our name is King, our house is a Dome, and it's OUR road!
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
OOPS!!!
      
 
      
In an earlier msg, I
      referenced
      ac43.13 about soldered cables.  Due to the fact that at the moment
      I happen
      to be working with some 04 gauge ELECTRICAL cable on automotive
      application,
      that was what I started thinking about.
      
 
      
Now, about soldered
      CONTROL
      cables.  The same ref. has some good advice about that
      too.
      
See para 197, b.
      Wrap-Soldered
      terminal.    There are some pretty specific methods to be
      used,
      and they make the point that a soldered terminal will only have about
      90% of the
      cable strength.
      
 
      
Someone commented on
      heating cable
      to red hot for soldering.  AC43.13 para 195,b. Cutting and
      heating. 
      "Do not subject wires and cables to excessive temperature. 
      Soldering
      bonding braid to control cable will not be considered
      satisfactory."
      
 
      
 
      
Tom
      
124 King Dome
      Road
Our name is
      King, our house is a Dome, and it's OUR
      road! 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
                ID# 607-42492U60000L60000S0) with SMTP id AAA2328
From: 
"Stephen M. Moore" <moores(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: 
Mark III Engines
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
      
      This is a 2 part question.
      
      What seems to be the preferred engine for the Mark III
      
      Are many people using the Rotax 912 engine,   How does it measure up.  Does it
      seem to be reliable.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
Subject: 
Larry Bourne : Trailers
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
      From: Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
      Subject: Kolb-List: Trailers
      Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:45:18 -0800
      
      I've seen several messages about trailers for our aircraft lately.  This
      is
      the way I'd like to go too, but I'm concerned about buffetting and
      thrashing around by wind on an open trailer.  Any thoughts on how to
      avoid
      this???    Thanks      Lar
      
      Lar
      Reguarding trailers. I used a $200 trailer kit thats available in most
      "home improvement" stores. To extend the length of the trailer, I removed
      the tongue, added an appropiate lenght of 2.5" square seemless tubing on
      each side, under the frame. Than reattached the tongue.  My  plane is
      also towed tail first. So just behind the trailer tongue I welded up a
      bracket on 
      each side on the trailer. This bracket in a "clam shell" of the air-foil,
      the wing is cradled in this, I use quick pins to lock it in place. The
      wings at the wing tips are now supported by the cradle, not the
      fuse-tube. The fuselage
      tube (just in front of the tail feathers) is supported by a "u" shaped
      cradle also. This takes the pressure off of the tail wheel.  I also
      support the front of the wings/rear of fuselage cage, by a steel
      riser(padded post) that comes up right under the rear motor mount/rear
      spar carry thru area.
      I've trailered at 70 mph...oops, 65 mph for hours on end, and traveled at
      least 500 miles with no problems.  This works for me, maybe it can give
      you some ideas. Good luck, have fun
      
      Bob Doebler
      bobdoebler(at)juno.com
       
      
      --------- End forwarded message ----------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
Subject: 
Re: cables
      
      > << Any time you solder a cable into a fitting of any type, a major
      >  problem is the solder failing and the fitting pulling off. Here is a way 
      >  to reduce the likeihood of that happening:  >>
      
      Alternatively, use compression to hold the cable. My throttle and 
      choke attachments are machined aluminum (though it could be done 
      without machine tools...just a drill press) fittings.  I used a 
      suitable section of square aluminum rod and form it into a forked 
      connector.  First operation is to drill two holes in the rod face
      
              |---------------------------|
      ____| o                |-----------|
      ------|            o     |-----------|
              |---------------------------|
      
      These are the clamp screws...I used 6-32 stainless socket head so 
      drill your holes accordingly. Then I cut the rod in half and finished 
      up the mating surfaces. Drill and tap for the clamp screws. Next 
      center punch the end of the rod and drill a hole for the cable that 
      is several thousanths less than the cable OD (all while the clamp 
      screws are in place and tight). Next operation is to create the fork 
      section for the throttle or choke handle...this can be done with a 
      file or carefully ground or milled. That's it.  The amount of  clamp 
      area on the cable should be as long as possible.  And if done 
      correctly will be almost imposible to pull the cable out.  No set 
      screws. If you want, add a little red Locktite to the cable as well 
      and some blue to the clamp screws.
      
      JB
      
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Mark III Engines
      
      >This is a 2 part question.
      >
      >What seems to be the preferred engine for the Mark III
      >
      >Are many people using the Rotax 912 engine,   How does it measure up.
      Does it seem to be reliable.
      
      
      Hey Gang:
      
      I've had the pleasure of flying my Mk III with the 582 and the 912.  Have a
      lot of time with 582 in Homer's MK III and the Sling Shot.  
      
      My 582 seized at a little over 200 hours.  Still haven't figured out why.
      This was my 4th 2 cycle eng and 1st to seize.  The 912 has been pushing me
      for the last 878.4 hours.  Seems to be an excellent eng.  Has not quit yet.
       Burns 4 GPH at 5000 RPM now, same as it did when I flew it the first time
      4 years ago this month.  Has never required any oil between changes (100
      hour normal).
      
      Anybody want to compare their 2 stroke with my 912?  5000 gives me 75 to 80
      MPH (true)(calibrated) depending on density altitude.  Normally 80 in
      winter and 75 or a little better in summer (SE US).
      
      BTW:  1111.9 hours on Miss P'fer's airframe and still counting.
      
      john hauck
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
Subject: 
Re: work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      
      > I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      > 4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      > surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      > work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      > appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      > Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      > ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      
      Two items to get...the build it your-self sawhorse kit...the one with 
      the plastic end pieces where the legs can be inserted and the top can 
      be a 2 x 8 or 2 x whatever. This way you can trim the sawhorse legs 
      for level and the top surface can be completely smooth if you recess 
      the top bolts.
      
      The second is a solid core (not hollow core) plain wooden door and a 
      pair of fold away table legs.  The door can be a four foot wide job 
      and shouldn't cost that much. Makes a great build table and can be 
      folded out of the way when not needed. And they're generally pretty 
      true.  You can check them at the store for warps and such but you 
      probably won't find too many that are.
      
      Ailerons?  I built mine on the garage floor. I checked for plumb and 
      flatness with a 4 ft level. If the floor is any good at all, there 
      are bound to be some suitable spots.....but that's just me.
      
      JB
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      
      My quick $.02 here:  For just about any work table it is still wise to 
      check leading and trailing edge pieces  for straightness (esp of wings 
      and ailerons).  The easiest way I found to do this was to stretch and
      tape ~12 lb fishing line along the piece.  Hold it off the piece at
      each end (next to the tape) with a toothpick.  You should then always
      be able to see the toothpick width gap between AL and fishing line 
      during riveting.  For a picture of what i mean, see:
      http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~ransom/build/3aileron.html
      
      -Ben Ransom
      
      >I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      >4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      >surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      >work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      >appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      >Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      >ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: soldering cablles
      
      > >       Any time you solder a cable into a fitting of any type, a major
      >>problem is the solder failing and the fitting pulling off. Here is a way 
      >>to reduce the likelihood of that happening: 
      >>        When you push the cable through the fitting, before you solder
      >>it, take a sharp object and "tease and frizzle" the end of the cable that
      >>sticks out. Some fittings have one end countersunk a bit. Have that the 
      >>end where a bit pokes out. Get in there and bend the short ends real good,
      >>to the point that even without solder, it is reluctant to pull back 
      >>through. Now solder it with a silver-bearing solder, which is a bit costlier
      >>and much stronger than the ordinary kind. (Radio Shack sells it)
      >>        This is not guaranteed foolproof, but it is guaranteed better,
      >>because now the cable has to compress itself and the solder before it can
      >>pull through, instead of just being a shear load.
      >        
      >>        Richard Pike
      >>        MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      >
      >
      >FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
      >
      >AC43.13-1A Change 3 specifically recommends   AGAINST soldered fittings in
      an aircraft.  Listed reasons in Paragraph 450 are;
      >
      >1. more skilled operator is required (not really a problem in my mind,
      we'll all take the time to do it right.)
      >
      >2.  A corrosive flux may be used causing the joint to deteriorate.  (if
      deterioration is inside coupling, etc, it's very hard to see on inspection
      and have you ever tried to solder with fluxless solder?  See NO. 1)
      >
      >3.  Maintenance is extremely difficult. (true)
      >
      >4.  the wire strands are stiffened by the solder and become more
      susceptible to breakage due to vibration.(VERY TRUE)
      >
      >5.  the wire insulation may be charred (and made brittle) during the
      soldering process.
      >
      >PERSONAL THOUGHT:    Having soldered connections in the past in a number of
      applications in cars, trucks, motor cycles, trailers, etc, I would not do so
      in an aircraft.  The biggest problem I've experienced is corrosion with
      breakage running 2nd.  Even if the wire and parts are thoroughly cleaned and
      soldered with no flux, it seems as if any moisture (even inside where it is
      not exposed to weather) will cause corrosion over the long run.  
      >
      >Also, why make the soldered joint any stronger than the wire itself.  It
      needs only to be AS strong as the wire.
      >
      >Tom King
      >124 King Dome Road
      >Our name is King, our house is a Dome, and it's OUR road!
      
      
              Apparently I failed to mention that we are not talking about
      electrical wire, the topic was meant to be Cable fittings. Specifically,
      choke, throttle, and brake. The kind that are used to pull things, not to
      transmit electricity.
             Especially the kind of fittings that you don't want pulling off the
      end of the wire, and then dropping out the bottom of the carb slide ,
      through the intake manifold, and into the expensive fitting masher.
              Sorry for any confusion. FRIZZLE THOSE ENDS!!! AND SOLDER 'UM GOOD!!!
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: (no subject)
      
      >Richard
      >
      >Where did you mount you ELT and ELT antenna?  I'm not real pleased with
      >my installation.  I liked your ideas on you com radio and GPS.
      >
      >Terry
      >-
      >       The ELT is on the floor of the cargo area, which is just behind the
      pilot seat, next to the aileron tube, where the gas tanks used to be. The
      front half of the gap seal is not made yet, but the ELT antenna will go on
      one side of it. The back half of the gap seal is the fuel tank.
              
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      
      >I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      >4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      >surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      >work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      >appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      >Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      >ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      >-
      >       That would probably work. I bought two used interior doors and laid
      them end to end on a worktable that I built out of 2x2's, 2x4's and the left
      over parts of the box the cage came in. You can lay shelves toward the
      bottom, and store parts on the shelves. Set the legs back in far enough that
      you wont bump them, and drive 4" long nails in rows down the legs, and rack
      your tubing on them.
              Make the bottom shelves high enough off the floor that the boxes
      that Kolb sends with ribs & etc, will slide under them.
              Screw a lag bolt into the bottom of each leg, and then run them in
      and out to level and true the length of the table.
              Buy your masking paper in a roll now, and pull off a fresh length
      for each part of the project. Tape it down, and draw your parts full size on
      it. Screw holding blocks right through the paper, into the plywood of the
      doors to hold everything in place. Reuse the blocks from place to place for
      each step of the project.
              When you get done, sell the whole rig to another EAA chapter member
      who will see how easy you did it, and will want to do it the same way. A
      good work bench makes it a lot more fun.
              
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27035)
Date: 
Apr 01, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Thanks
      
      I'd like to say thank you to all who answered my trailer question.  Really
      liked the wind current testing with lime.  Now for another 2 cts worth.  I
      talked to the handyman in this mobile home park today, and he said,
      "Why not find an old 24 ft camp trlr, gut it, cut the back out, reinforce
      it to make a swing down ramp, and park your plane in it??"  Thinks he knows
      where I can find one for $500.00
      For my bit on the bldg table, I also used legs every 4 ft., but went to
      bldrs supp and got a bundle of tapered cedar shims to level things out.    
         Letter came from FAA today.  Big Lar's bird will officially be
      N78LB....Yay, Yay!!!     
      
      Dennis:  Thanks, I'll look forward to seeing the mount.  If you haven't
      already shipped it, please enclose another Kolb picture sheet.  The one I
      have is terminally frazzled from showing everybody I could button-hole for
      the last year.     I haven't measured exactly, but with dummy engine in
      dummy mounts (don't know if I like the direction this is taking), it gives
      me room for a 72" prop with about 1" clearance.  (you said that would be
      37"),    How did that work out for you??  The prop shaft is already
      extended 1" from supplier, but it's massive.  If necessary, another inch or
      2 will probably be OK.  I'll see what Milo says.  
      
      Regarding N78LB,  someone said the other day about the Strange reqs they
      ran into - like labeling the throttle fast + slow, etc.  I would REALLY
      like to hear more about that.  Also, I have 3 sheets notarized and ready to
      send in with my shiny new numbers.  Is that all I need??  With a gov't
      agency, I thought there would be a dozen.    Thanks again to all.      
      Lar.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
Kolb: bench or saw oxen
      
       Two sawhorses worked great for me.  Here's my suggestion: Like someone
      mentioned, build a couple sawhorses with hardware store brackets (the
      stongest ones you can find).  For the legs you must use 2x4 but for the
      top of the horses use the nicest straightest 2x6 or 2x8 you can find and
      make it long enough to support the wing leading edge, trailing edge, and
      aileron trailing edge.  This will greatly simplify your process when doing
      hinges, which I found to be the most challenging part of the kit.  In other
      words, the top of the horses will be about 6.5 feet long (check the plans,
      I forgot the right length already), so you can build the wing on them, and
      lay the completed aileron and flap behind the wing on the horse for hinge
      assembly.
        Check the tops of the completed horses for flatness, and hand-plane the
      high spots off them.  Then set them up so they are level compared to each
      other.  Some of the literature sez to glue the legs to the floor or hang
      house bricks under them to keep their postion perfect after finding a spot
      on the floor where their surfaces are the same levelness.  I did not do either
      of these but I was carefull to check the levelness often, and always at the
      start of each build day, to verify nothing moved.
        I like the horses, I could work on the wing construction from above AND
      below.  The plans say to put in all the rivets in the top and then flip the
      wing over to install the remaining rivets.  I did all the top ones, then
      pulled a beach chair out of the garage (the kind with almost no legs, and
      with back-support), with this chair I worked from under the wing, drilling and
      rivetting.  It was great, like relaxing.  The tools were on the floor around me
      and I could reach them without bending over.  I felt it was easier to do the
      bottom this way than the way I did the top, because of all the tool dragging
      and bending over for tools and rivets all day long.  DO WEAR GOGGLES for
      eye safety from flying particles!
        The main goal is to produce the wings perfectly flat, with no twist.  Many
      different methods could be used to accomplish this but I found the horses to
      be just fine.  My wings came out absolutely perfect, as close as can be
      checked by a carefull eye (it still amazes me how good they look).
        I still use those two big saw horses (actually they are referred to as
      "Saw Oxen" at my house now), they are trusted tools.
        Good luck, take your time and enjoy, the wings are the funnest part!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
aileron gap seals
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      
      I'll send this again since it doesn't seem to post, if it multi-post
      sorry.
      
       Does anyone know of an alternative to the fabric gap seals on the
      ailerons?
      I seem to recall reading somewhere about using clear tape of some sort
      but
      can't remember where.
      info anyone?
      thanks
      Geoff Thistlethwaite
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
I'll send this again since it
      doesn't seem to
      post, if it multi-post sorry.
      
 
      
 Does anyone know of an
      alternative to the
      fabric gap seals on the ailerons?
I seem to recall reading somewhere
      about
      using clear tape of some sort but
can't remember where.
info
      anyone?
thanks
Geoff
      Thistlethwaite
 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Kolb: bench or saw oxen
      
      I used the hardware store saw horses, also, with good results. They
      were placed on a crushed stone floor. To confirm that they stayed level,
      I bought two inexpensive levels, and put one one each horse. The horses
      stayed level throught wing building, and I didn't even add weights.  I
      made the horses fairly high so that I wouldn't have to bend my back
      while building the wings. Then I cut the legs shorter to a more
      conventional height for painting and future use.
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: aileron gap seals
      
      Geoff,
         I have heard about and seen some alternatives to the gap seal. But
      after doing the standard gap seals, I wonder why others go so far to
      avoid them. They are not difficult at all.
      John Jung
      >
      >Geoff Thistlethwaite wrote:
      >  Does anyone know of an alternative to the fabric gap seals on the
      > ailerons?
      ...snip
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
"ernest l. hagness" <ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net>
Subject: 
Thanks 
      
      Thanks to all of the great response for work table ideas that have
      worked for you. It will save me a lot of time by not having to develop
      this from trial and error. Ernie Hagness
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Re: aileron gap seals
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
       writes:
      >
      > Does anyone know of an alternative to the fabric gap seals on the
      >ailerons?
      >I seem to recall reading somewhere about using clear tape of some sort 
      >=
      >but
      >can't remember where.
      >info anyone?
      >thanks
      >Geoff Thistlethwaite
      
      I agree with John, my C2 has "scotch-tape" gap seals. They are 'dirt
      magnets' and only last a couple seasons at most before coming loose or
      tearing. Besides that, some non-aviation types look at the tape and think
      that's what's holding the "flappy thingys" on.
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Re: aileron gap seals
      
      > Does anyone know of an alternative to the fabric gap seals on the ailerons?
      >I seem to recall reading somewhere about using clear tape of some sort...
      
      Goeff and all,
      
      Although they have the tape on gap seal material available now, I think the
      original (but a variation of it) method is better.  The 2" wide finishing
      tapes make excellent gap seals and they are painted to meld the entire paint
      scheme together.  I only put them between the hinges rather than under the
      hinges.  That way you don't have to remove the hinges for application (which
      IMO is a lot of unnecessary effort) and they lay down very straight and
      smoothly in shorter stips with no ripples or pulls from changing directions
      on a long run.  Allow a little uniform sag or curve in the seals when
      applying. That allows them to flex properly. 
      
      I also made some gap seals for the tail feathers by cutting 2" finishing
      tape into two 1" strips and sewing them together down the middle.  Cut to
      length, split the flaps apart and slip them in the gaps between the hinges
      of the vert. stab. / rudder and horiz. stab. / elevators.  They self center
      with the sewn together middle in line with the hinges...  voila, you have
      instant gap seals that look darn good.  Just make sure your sewn line is in
      line with your hinges so that when you operate the flying surfaces the flaps
      will not pull loose.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
Subject: 
Re: "ernest l. hagness" : 
      work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      
      Bob
      
      There are 2 issues to be aware of in your table.  The most critical is the
      twist of the surface.  The other is a stable reference for measurement from
      two adjacent edges that are perpendicular.  The use of plywood provides the
      perpendicular edges, however, 8 feet is not long enough for the wing.  My
      solution was to go to a used steel yard and buy two 12 foot lengths of 2" x
      4" steel tubing 0.047" thick and use these for edge alignment on the table.
       I also used steel along the 4 foot edge of the plywood.  The plywood will
      have a wavy surface that must be constrained.  I used edge mounted 1" x 4"
      boards on 2 foot centers both length wise and width wise.  To keep the
      surfaces from twisting I placed a second surface on the bottom of the table
      using the 1"x 4" boards as spacers.   On the lower surface of the table I
      used 3/32 underlayment which was a cheap and light plywood.  Everything was
      screwed together with sheet rock screws.  A screw gun made the effort easy.
       I used a pair of saw horses for legs and walked on the table at will.  The
      table was ridged enough to maintain squareness and flatness on its own
      regardless of the legs.  To keep the table from rocking I stuffed a spacer
      under a sawhorse leg. 
      
      My wings have no measurable twist using a 6 foot level as they are
      installed to the cage.  
      
      Have fun
      Ron
      
      >I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      >4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      >surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      >work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      >appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      >Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      >ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      >
      >
      >Ernest
      >For building a F/S II, I used 3/4" partical board 4'x12'. Top was framed
      >with 2"x 6" around primemter,and and every 4' spandwise. 6 legs were out
      >of 6"x 6".  I braced the bottom of the legs with 1" x 4".  I drilled a
      >hole in the bottom of each leg, and installed a bolt , nut/washer there.
      >This allows you to adjust for uneven floors.  This worked for me building
      >a F/S II, wings ailerons/ tail feathers were all built on this table with
      >no problems.
      >Bob Doebler 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
Kolb: gap seals
      
       I used the "Book Binding Tape"Scotch 845 by 3M, about 9 bucks per roll in
      3" width.  I used a 1" wide tape adhesive-to-adhesive in the center of the
      3" tape, to cover the exposed adhesive.  This gives me 1" of adhesive on the
      wing and 1" on the aileron, which should hold great.  Last year I used 2" wide
      and that was not enough, one pc fell off.  Be sure to de-wax first.  And rub
      all the air out from under the tape.  I found the 1" wide in a nice White,
      which is my major paint color, so it looks great.
      
        WHY?  I did not try the fabric method. Several reasons, and maybe someone can
      answer them:  How does one handle the painting process if the ailerons are
      attached when you are trying to handle the assembly in the paint booth?  I
      know I turned the wings over many times as I painted three coats from various
      angles, with wings suspended from ceiling.  Does the Aileron just flop around
      on there as you are doing this?  Maybe you still paint the parts seperate,
      then attach the fabric and hinges, and then paint again.  I painted hinges
      seperate, wings seperate, ailerons seperate.  Three colors makes for some
      creative masking.
        My next question/comment about fabric:  Can they be replaced easily, and then
      what about paint, do you paint them after replacement?  The reason I would be
      concerned with a replacement plan is that I have seen a couple planes that
      were a few years old (5-8) that had gap seals all cracked and torn.  Renewal
      would do wonders for their appearance.  The adhesive tape really looks nice
      now that I used the 1" wide in White, smooth and glossy.  I know they will
      fail, probably within three years, but replacement of all pcs took less than
      two hours and 20 dollars, so no big trouble.  Adhesive is easy to remove
      with PPG wax and grease remover, with no harm to fabric or PolyTone.
        Install tapes with wings hanging from shop ceiling, ailerons up,
      at eye-level, for easiest job.  Wrap tapes around a 1" dowel, push into space,
      and apply.  It is that simple.
        Com'on guys, tell us how the paint process and the fabric tapes work out.
      see ya...
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Kolb: gap seals
      
      Jim Gerken wrote:
      snip.. 
      > How does one handle the painting process if the ailerons are
      > attached when you are trying to handle the assembly in the paint booth? 
      snip..
      >
         What I did was attach the ailerons after the polyspray. Then added
      the gap seals and poly brushed them. Handling the wings with the
      ailerons attached wasn't a problem for finish paint. I may have helped
      that they were counterweighted. 
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
      
      Jim and all,
      
      >  WHY?  I did not try the fabric method. Several reasons, and maybe someone can
      >answer them:  How does one handle the painting process if the ailerons are
      >attached when you are trying to handle the assembly in the paint booth?
      
      This is how I did it (actually had it done).  I sand scuffed as best I could
      (some guys use acid etch which is better) the alum. hinges and primed them
      with epoxy chromate then with Polytone within about 20 minutes; then pop
      riveted the wings, ailerons and flaps together; then applied the wing gap
      seals (between the hinges); and then painted it as a unit.  It did require
      several guys (painted at the high school paint shop therefore no problem
      there) to flip it over and fold the flaps and ailerons back to spray under
      the gap seals, etc.  I had the wings painted with the sunburst scheme and
      taping off for the second color was easy.  The only blowby I had was a tiny
      bit under the gap seals where the masking tape did not fully contact the
      surface.  Across the top of the hinges and seals it was perfect.
      
      >  My next question/comment about fabric:  Can they be replaced easily, and then
      >what about paint, do you paint them after replacement?
      
      I'm not there yet.  After 1 year they look good as new.  Obviously, when you
      pull them loose you will have a bare unpainted surface beneath.  I assume
      you could reapply a new strip and repaint (at least on top) utilizing a tiny
      holed type of foam paint roller.  Perhaps underneath brush paint the crack
      and foam roll the middle if it would reach with the parts folded back.  I
      painted my whole cage with a roller and the results are very near to looking
      like a spray job.  Using a foam roller makes taping off really easy... no
      overspray.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
"Henry C. Wortman" <hwortman(at)mail.datasys.net>
Subject: 
Personal messages
      
      May I make a suggestion!   I think this list has been a most informative
      forum as most of the messages posted are of general interest to
      everyone, however, the last several weeks I've noticed an increase in
      personal messages that might better be sent directly to the individual.
      I hope this list does not get to the level that "FLY-UL" has reached in
      that there are personal messages cluttering everyones mailbox.
      
      My $.02 says that if the message is useful only to one individual then
      send it direct.  Thanks : Henry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Re: aileron gap seals
      
      
      << I also made some gap seals for the tail feathers by cutting 2" finishing
       tape into two 1" strips and sewing them together down the middle. >>
      
      
      I did this on the mark 2 and found that it had a very salutary effect on
      elevator effectiveness.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: 
FW: Personal messages
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      I think that if it has to do with building, modifying, maintaining Kolb
      aircraft that it should be out in the group.  I archive all these posts
      in folders and when it comes to that point in building I study them for
      tips and hints.  I think that if it gets down to the actual details of
      wheel placement on your trailer and the metal used that would best be
      done in private, but the general posts of gap seals and trailer
      configurations have been and will be very useful in the future. There
      have been times when it becomes obvious that a question has been
      answered in private and I am disappointed because I missed the answer.
      I guess it all depends on where you are in the building process as to
      how important some of this talk is.
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        Henry C. Wortman [SMTP:hwortman(at)mail.datasys.net]
      > Sent:        Thursday, April 02, 1998 8:18 AM
      > To:        kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject:        Personal messages
      > 
      > May I make a suggestion!   I think this list has been a most
      > informative
      > forum as most of the messages posted are of general interest to
      > everyone, however, the last several weeks I've noticed an increase in
      > personal messages that might better be sent directly to the
      > individual.
      > I hope this list does not get to the level that "FLY-UL" has reached
      > in
      > that there are personal messages cluttering everyones mailbox.
      > 
      > My $.02 says that if the message is useful only to one individual then
      > send it direct.  Thanks : Henry
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
Re: aileron gap seals
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      >Does anyone know of an alternative to the fabric gap seals on the ailerons?
      >I seem to recall reading somewhere about using clear tape of some sort but
      >can't remember where.
      >info anyone?
      
      
      I used the 2" book binding tape on my SlingShot and it worked fine, though I
      would suspect the 3" would be better in the long run.  I only applied the tape
      between the hinges.  Besides making the painting easier, it also allows me to
      remove and replace an aileron if needed without much hassle.  I doubt that will
      ever be needed, but since I left the hinge pins removable, it didn't make much
      sense to glue/paint everything else in place.
      
      Rusty
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Painting Aluminum
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.  
      Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      
      << ere is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
       on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
       I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
       Poly-Tone  >>
      
      
       My advice is don't try it.  Polytone is intended to stick to poly brush and
      that's about it.  I gave up on my plane and used car paint over stits epoxy
      metal primer..
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
HShack <HShack(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Firestar KXP
      
      What is this craft?  I can't find it in Kolb's Literature.
            Shack [SC]
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
T Swartz <Tswartz(at)mail.ptd.net>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      Raymond L Lujon wrote:
      > 
      > Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      > on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      > I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      > Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.
      > Ray Lujon
      
      Ray
      
      I had my fuselage tube and cage powder coated but I did paint other misc
      aluminum parts and tubes.  I tried to precoat with poly tac and I heard
      of people adding polytac to polytone but I wasn't happy with it.  I used
      an expoxy primer, (pPg brand  DP-48 paint & DP-401 catalyst), then paint
      with polytone while primer was still tacky.  This worked good for me. 
      The expoxy primer was purchased at an auto paint supply place.
      
      Terry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar KXP
      
      On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, HShack wrote:
      
      > What is this craft?  I can't find it in Kolb's Literature.
      >       Shack [SC]
      
      No longer available.   ...but I got one, and feel pretty lucky about it.
      
      KX and KXP models followed the original FS.  
      KX had slightly lower cockpit sides and long skinny wind screen.  KX
          could still make 254lbs with Rotax 447 if built on a diet.
      KXP was same but with 7 ribs/wing (+2 false upper ribs per section)
          and most KXPs also had heavier landing gear legs.  KXP with
          stronger wing could handle Rotax 503 but no way make 254 lbs
      
      KX/KXP were replaced with current FS I and II models.  Cockpit is 
      stretched a bit, big enf for jump seat (in II) or baggage (in I).
      A FSII is generally registered as Experimental category as far
      as I know.  Wings are same as KX/KXP except I and II have slightly
      shorter span ailerons and require aileron counter-balances.  
      - There are other minor differences.
      - Both I and II have windscreen similar to original FS.
      - FS I can be flown FAR103 with Rotax 277 (ouch), but better to 
        go for a FireFly.
      
      -Ben Ransom
       http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~ransom  (KXP pics)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      >Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      >on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      >I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      >Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.  
      >Ray Lujon
      >
      
      
      I never had much luck using polytone on alum or steel or any kind of metal.
       It just isn't very durable.  I use aerothane, and if I didn't use
      aerothane I'd use an enamel, something designed to be used for metal.  A
      good source for paint is the local auto paint supply store.  They also have
      all kinds of 3M tape, sand paper, polishing compound, etc.
      
      Alum and steel I use phosphoric acid and scotch brite pads.  Prime with
      epoxy primer and then finish paint.  Paint soon after priming and the
      finish paint will adhere to the epoxy better.  
      
      It works for me.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      >Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      >on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      >I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      >Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.  
      >Ray Lujon
      
      Ray and all,
      
      What I did (with the help of a friend of mine who has spray equipment) was
      to scuff sand the aluminum, spray with epoxy chromate and before it cured
      (about 20 minutes) spray with Polytone.  Careful with that chromate - it is
      very toxic.  After sanding and before spraying, clean the tube real well to
      remove aluminum dust and finger prints with MEK or other suitable solvent.
      It hasn't peeled or flaked anywhere.  At the same time we did all of the
      aluminum and misc. steel parts to be painted and the nose cone too.  As far
      as the steel cage and misc. steel parts are concerned, I wish I had powder
      coated them.  It would have been worth every penny of the cost.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      Ray,
      Use the two part epoxy primer EP-420 from Stits . I painted almost all my
      aluminum tubing with this paint to corrosion proof it for float flying
      including the boom tube and it is still extremely good and has not flaked
      after 7 years around (fresh) water. Polytone and Polytac stick extremely
      well to it. Be very carefull and wear a filtermask when applying this paint
      because with insufficient ventilation you can get very sick.
      
      Frank Reynen MKIII@430hrs
      
      
      Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.
      Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Personal messages
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      I think the reference was to some of the gab posted by some that find
      they have similar outside interests or jobs that have absolutely
      nothing to do with flying/building Kolb airplanes. A waste of my time,
      as well as others.  I doubt you could find a place to "archive" these.
      
      Ron Carroll
      Original Firestar
      Independence, Oregon
      
      
      >I think that if it has to do with building, modifying, maintaining
      Kolb
      >aircraft that it should be out in the group.  I archive all these
      posts
      >in folders and when it comes to that point in building I study them
      for
      >tips and hints.  I think that if it gets down to the actual details
      of
      >wheel placement on your trailer and the metal used that would best be
      >done in private, but the general posts of gap seals and trailer
      >configurations have been and will be very useful in the future. There
      >have been times when it becomes obvious that a question has been
      >answered in private and I am disappointed because I missed the
      answer.
      >I guess it all depends on where you are in the building process as to
      >how important some of this talk is.
      >
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Henry C. Wortman [SMTP:hwortman(at)mail.datasys.net]
      >> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 1998 8:18 AM
      >> To: kolb(at)intrig.com
      >> Subject: Personal messages
      >>
      >> May I make a suggestion!   I think this list has been a most
      >> informative
      >> forum as most of the messages posted are of general interest to
      >> everyone, however, the last several weeks I've noticed an increase
      in
      >> personal messages that might better be sent directly to the
      >> individual.
      >> I hope this list does not get to the level that "FLY-UL" has
      reached
      >> in
      >> that there are personal messages cluttering everyones mailbox.
      >>
      >> My $.02 says that if the message is useful only to one individual
      then
      >> send it direct.  Thanks : Henry
      >>
      >> -
      >-
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      I'm about ready to paint the Fuselage tube, but afraid to use anything
      like car paint because the fabric will wrap around the tube at the
      rear of the cage, and I hear that Poly-anything will 'melt' anything
      other than a 2-part epoxy paint.
      
      Ron
      
      ><< ere is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint
      Poly-Tone
      > on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps
      that
      > I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so
      the
      > Poly-Tone  >>
      >
      >
      >
      > My advice is don't try it.  Polytone is intended to stick to poly
      brush and
      >that's about it.  I gave up on my plane and used car paint over stits
      epoxy
      >metal primer..
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gary Shellberg" <shelfarm(at)netins.net>
Subject: 
prop harmonics
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      
      I recently aquired a 1990 Firestar with 377 & 2.58 gearbox. I am not
      satisfied with the smoothness of the powertrain as I get alot of
      thrum-thrum-thrum type of harmonics with the 66x32 wood prop and a 3
      blade Ultra Prop that I tried. Have any of you Kolb listers found a
      combination of powertrain components that gives smooth performance?
      Other than the harmonics I find the plane to be a delight to fly.   GJS
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
I recently aquired a 1990 Firestar
      with 377
      & 2.58 gearbox. I am not satisfied with the smoothness of the
      powertrain as
      I get alot of thrum-thrum-thrum type of harmonics with the 66x32 wood
      prop and a
      3 blade Ultra Prop that I tried. Have any of you Kolb listers found a
      combination of powertrain components that gives smooth performance?
      Other than
      the harmonics I find the plane to be a delight to fly.  
      GJS
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Thomas L. King" <kingdome(at)tcac.net>
Subject: 
cable
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
      
      
      OOPS!!!
      
      In an earlier msg, I referenced ac43.13 about soldered cables.  Due to
      the fact that at the moment I happened to be working with some 04 gauge
      ELECTRICAL cable on automotive application, that was what I started
      thinking about.
      
      
      However, I also would not use heat/solder on control cables.  The heat
      will make the cable more susceptible to flex/vibration stress.
      
      Tom King
      
      this msg was sent earlier, but apparently did not post.  Oops if it did!
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      

      
OOPS!!!
      
 
      
In an earlier msg, I
      referenced
      ac43.13 about soldered cables.  Due to the fact that at the moment
      I
      happened to be working with some 04 gauge ELECTRICAL cable on automotive
      
      application, that was what I started thinking about.
      
 
      
 
      
However, I also would not use
      heat/solder on
      control cables.  The heat will make the cable more susceptible to flex/vibration
      stress.
      
 
      
Tom King
      
 
      
this msg was sent earlier, but apparently did not post.  Oops if it
      did!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>: Re: "ernest l. hagness"
      
              mark 3  kolb
              47,49-50,52-75,77,79-84
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
      From: Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: "ernest l. hagness" : 
      
      work tables to build a mark 3  kolb
      Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:52:09 -0600
      
      
      To Ron:
      Regarding the questions you had about my table.
      
      The table was "shot" with a transit at 8 locations to verify no twist
      was built into the table. High density partical board was used to
      eliminate warpage. A "datum" line was drawn along one edge as a referance
      line, and everything referencied to that. The table was 12 feet long
      which worked fine for me. I have built both a F/S II and also a
      motorglider with this method, and both fly great. I hope this answered
      your questions.
      
      Again. Have fun/fly high
      
      Bob
      
      There are 2 issues to be aware of in your table.  The most critical is
      the
      twist of the surface.  The other is a stable reference for measurement
      from
      two adjacent edges that are perpendicular.  The use of plywood provides
      the
      perpendicular edges, however, 8 feet is not long enough for the wing.  My
      solution was to go to a used steel yard and buy two 12 foot lengths of 2"
      x
      4" steel tubing 0.047" thick and use these for edge alignment on the
      table.
       I also used steel along the 4 foot edge of the plywood.  The plywood
      will
      have a wavy surface that must be constrained.  I used edge mounted 1" x
      4"
      boards on 2 foot centers both length wise and width wise.  To keep the
      surfaces from twisting I placed a second surface on the bottom of the
      table
      using the 1"x 4" boards as spacers.   On the lower surface of the table I
      used 3/32 underlayment which was a cheap and light plywood.  Everything
      was
      screwed together with sheet rock screws.  A screw gun made the effort
      easy.
       I used a pair of saw horses for legs and walked on the table at will. 
      The
      table was ridged enough to maintain squareness and flatness on its own
      regardless of the legs.  To keep the table from rocking I stuffed a
      spacer
      under a sawhorse leg. 
      
      My wings have no measurable twist using a 6 foot level as they are
      installed to the cage.  
      
      Have fun
      Ron
      
      >I am about to start construction of a mark 3 and planned to use a 3/4" x
      >4 foot x 8 foot sheet of plywood for assembly of the ailerons, and tail
      >surfaces and 3 2x4x 6foot clamped edgewise  in black and decker 2500
      >work tables at each end of the spars for the wings. Will this work. Will
      >appreciate input from those of you who have been there. Thanks. Ernie
      >Hagness  2337 Willow Dr. Portland, Texas 78374  
      >ehagness(at)mail.interconnect.net
      >
      >
      >Ernest
      >For building a F/S II, I used 3/4" partical board 4'x12'. Top was framed
      >with 2"x 6" around primemter,and and every 4' spandwise. 6 legs were out
      >of 6"x 6".  I braced the bottom of the legs with 1" x 4".  I drilled a
      >hole in the bottom of each leg, and installed a bolt , nut/washer there.
      >This allows you to adjust for uneven floors.  This worked for me
      building
      >a F/S II, wings ailerons/ tail feathers were all built on this table
      with
      >no problems.
      >Bob Doebler 
      
      
      --------- End forwarded message ----------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Timandjan <Timandjan(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
Subject: 
BUILDING SURFACE
      
      I pondered the table/sawhorse notion before building also.
      
      I built 2 saw horses that are high so I do not have to bend over while
      building. I made them wider than the wing cord and when I was finished I
      covered them in carpeting to work on the wing while painting etc. I anchored
      my horses to the floor after leveling them. I like the horses over a table
      because you can get under the wing, and even better, as I was building, I was
      able to stand in-between the ribs and work in the middle of the wing for
      measuring/riveting etc. I would have hated to had to lean over that far to
      rivet etc.
      
      I also made  another building platform out of a hollow core door. I drew
      shapes right on the table and build to it for aileron, tail parts etc. I also
      found it real handy to cut holes when needed in the table for building, for
      instance when building the tail, I cut a groove for the ring that attaches the
      tail to the boom tube. 
      
      I also made a jig for about everything that made building great, I would be
      glad to share my ideas if anybody is interested.
      
      My long 2 cents worth.
      tim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 02, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      >Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      >on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      >I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      >Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.  
      >Ray Lujon
      >
      Howdy Ray,
      I guess you're seeing all about the same kind of info on what's required.
      I can add my sympathy as I ended up painting my fuselage tube twice too.
      I learned the following method by the second try...
      
      I used an AL etch (cheap at auto store ...called MetalSol ?).  This is
      insanely simple.  BTW, this is not the same stuff as used to prepare steel.   
      Then epoxy spray, then either spray on the polytone while the epoxy is 
      still tacky, OR, scuff sand the epoxy if it cures first.  
      
      Scuff sanding is not difficult so don't worry about this method.  However,
      epoxy can go on with barely visible dimples, so i think i used steel wool
      as something that would easily follow and scuff the dimples.  You can
      verify this as non-scuffed dimples would still have sheen in light.
      
      Polytone isn't as tough as other kinds of paint but has lasted well on
      my plane.  Don't be afraid to try Polytak on an alternative type of 
      paint.  I found polytak to *not* soften a latex called ToughCoat, which
      i used (over epoxy primer) on my cage.
      
      Lastly, I used Randolph epoxy from AC Spruce ...cheaper than Stits.  Chromate
      epoxy (didn't know this existed) or Zinc Chromate primers are going all out
      gang-busters for corrosion proofing, probably more than what I'd consider
      necessary unless on floats or coastal environment.
      
      Good luck.  2nd time's a charm.
      -Ben
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      >Here is an easy one. I want to ( for the 2nd time) spray paint Poly-Tone
      >on the  fuselage tube and the lift struts.What are the correct steps that
      >I should take in preparing the aluminum surface prior to spraying so the
      >Poly-Tone will resist peeling and flaking. I know the incorrect way.  
      >Ray Lujon
      >
              The way I got the Poly-Tone to stick to the fuselage tube was not
      the usual way, but it was easy and has worked well. I just wrapped the tube
      with a strip of fabric and doped it in place. Put the seam on the bottom.
      Shrink it down good, Poly-ETC. just like the rest of the airplane, and the
      Poly-Tone sticks just like it's supposed to, and the colors match perfect.
              If you want to add a nav light or strobe to the tail, sandwich the
      wires between two overlapping layers of fabric on a lower side. Don't put
      the wires exactly on the bottom, not as protected. You'll never see them,
      looks real good.
              The lift struts would be real easy to cover  with fabric and dope
      and paint. The best part is, you already have all the supplies you need.
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
              
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Personal messages
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
       writes:
      
      >I think the reference was to some of the gab posted by some that find
      >they have similar outside interests or jobs that have absolutely
      >nothing to do with flying/building Kolb airplanes. A waste of my time,
      >as well as others.  I doubt you could find a place to "archive" these.
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, Oregon
      
      
      You're absolutely right, Ron. Building airplanes is very serious,
      stressful work. That's why I "play" at this stuff (UL's & Experimentals)
      in my 'free time'.
      
      Sorry to have squeezed your bandwidth. My apologies to you and the group
      for starting the thread about my occupation (BTW, what got posted to the
      list was small compared to what went on privately). I've been trying to
      spend more time with the plane and less on the computer anyway.
      
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Kolb: Personal messages
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      writes:
      
      >I think that if it has to do with building, modifying, maintaining Kolb
      >aircraft that it should be out in the group.
      
      Jason,
      
      I posted several questions about 'aft fuselage tubes' over a week ago and
      got no replies from the group. I just assumed it had been a stupid
      question or that everyone had started deleting my posts before reading
      (starting to seem more likely). Finally, yesterday someone answered all
      my questions but the reply was sent to my personal address. 
      
      I won't re-post any 'private' reply from anyone on the list, I think that
      if the sender wanted it made public they would have sent it to the whole
      list in the first place. It's sad but true, anyone who gives advice on
      this list is taking a liability risk. This might explain a lot of the
      questions that seem to go "un-answered".
      
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Painting parts, ridgid gap seals
      
      Based on my experiance so far painting all the parts on the Kolb is the 
      single most iritating part of the project.  I would recomend that anyone 
      getting a plane from them get the full powdercoating option no matter 
      what the cost.  I also wish Kolb would resize a few of the parts so that 
      they fit together properly after they are painted.  The elevator and 
      aileron control horns, lift strut ends etc.  The Kolbs give more plane 
      for the money then anyone else because they make the builders do much 
      more of the work, but I think that a little more factory work in a 
      couple of areas would greatly simplify the project at little cost.  
      bending the wingtip bows, preinstalling the h-sections, verifying that 
      the wing spar diameters and the rib spar stampings are a good match for 
      each kit, finishing the aft ends of all the false ribs are some of the 
      things that have given me grief.  
      
      Has anyone used a permenately attached rubber or plastic gasket for 
      control surface gap seals, as opposed to glued or sticky tape?  RANS 
      aircraft use an extruded plastic D shaped tube that is rivited in place 
      that looks great and is approximately as tall as the control surface 
      gap, so you are sealing from both sides, making a smoother airfoil on 
      both sides instead of just blocking threw flow.  I hope to use or make 
      something like this for all my control surfaces.  Going to have to make 
      sure to size them thin enough to not have interferance with the control 
      surface rib ends at full deflection though.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
gap seals
      
      Topher:  Cool idea, put me down as a potential customer if you can extrude
      a shape that fits.  Are you imagining the extrusion would be cut to length
      to fit between the hinges?  Hmmm, then you'd get a much smoother wing surface
      both top and bottom, but NOT where the hinges are, right?  Bummer, so close
      and still not quite the answer.  Keep thinking, you are close.
      jim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
      
      On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Richard Pike wrote:
      >         The way I got the Poly-Tone to stick to the fuselage tube was not
      > the usual way, but it was easy and has worked well. I just wrapped the tube
      > with a strip of fabric and doped it in place. Put the seam on the bottom.
      > Shrink it down good, Poly-ETC. just like the rest of the airplane, and the
      > Poly-Tone sticks just like it's supposed to, and the colors match perfect.
      
      I personally don't think this is necessary.  It is more work, bound to
      leave a few bumps and not as smooth as painted aluminum, and a teeny
      bit heavier.  I'm only jumping in again here because I know that my
      polytone is holding up just fine on my fuse tube and lift struts.
      
      However, if memory serves me correctly, I think the layers on my
      lift struts may be: epoxy/ToughCoat/Polytone.  I went with the toughcoat
      in between (i think) just in case the polytone chipped; the toughcoat
      layer is almost the same color as the polytone so the chip would very
      hard to see. 
      
      -Ben Ransom
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Grief...?
      
      To all,
      
      >...things that have given me grief.  
      
      You know, the only thing that I think Kolb could have done better was to
      make the bends in the false ribs match the curvature of the regular ribs
      better.  Hope Dennis is listening...  My hands were really sore from
      tweaking those ribs to be just so so.  Most everything else fit together
      very well.  I enjoyed building the entire plane.  I did get the pre-built
      ribs (actually it was offered as a freebee incentive when I purchased).  I
      figured it would get really boring do it again and again.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"J.D. Stewart" <jstewart(at)ncfcomm.com>
Subject: 
RE: gap seals
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
      
      Someone mentioned using book binding tape for gap seals.  I called my 
      librarian friend and he faxed me over a page out of a catalog he uses.  It 
      includes tape made out of Tyvek.  Can't be torn or ripped.  3" X 15 yards 
      is $8.95.  Ask your local librarian or I can get the 800#.
      
      J.D. Stewart
      NCF Communications, Inc.:  http://www.ncfcomm.com
      Home Page: http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/jstewart/index.html
      N.E. NE Flying Club:  http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/nnfc/index.html
      
      Topher:  Cool idea, put me down as a potential customer if you can extrude
      a shape that fits.  Are you imagining the extrusion would be cut to length
      to fit between the hinges?  Hmmm, then you'd get a much smoother wing 
      surface
      both top and bottom, but NOT where the hinges are, right?  Bummer, so close
      and still not quite the answer.  Keep thinking, you are close.
      jim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Grief...?
      
      >To all,
      >
      >>...things that have given me grief.  
      >
      >You know, the only thing that I think Kolb could have done better was to
      >make the bends in the false ribs match the curvature of the regular ribs
      >better.  Hope Dennis is listening...  My hands were really sore from
      >tweaking those ribs to be just so so.  Most everything else fit together
      
      
      Howdy Folks:
      
      After building 10 wings for my kolbs I found it wasn't necessary to bend
      the false ribs just so, so that that would be exactly like the top of the
      main rib nose.  Here's how I do it and it is relatively easy:
      
      1-Clecko nose of false rib to the front spar, or go ahead and rivet.  I
      like to clecko everything first in case I screw up.  Easier to remove a
      clecko than a steel rivet.
      
      2-Temporarily attach about 3 alum tubes, lengths of wood dowels, or what
      ever, to give an outline of the top of nose rib.  I attach with small
      insulated copper wire twists..
      
      3-Pull the false rib up and tie wrap to straight reference tubes.  Now the
      false ribs are identical bend to main rib and held in place, hands off.
      
      4-Attach rear of false rib to main spar.
      
      This works every time.  Takes out a lot of tedious positioning and
      fastening.  I've done it most of the difficult ways, trying to bend to
      match, all the time wondering why Kolb didn't do it perfect the first time.
       There's always an easier way to do things, most of the time, if we share
      and listen to people who have already made the mistakes thru trial and error.
      
      Listening and learning.
      
      john hauck
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Grief...?
      
      
      << hings that have given me grief.  
        >>
      
      
      I think the remark about sizing parts fit with the paint is a good point.
      Preinstalled h sections would be nice too.  It is one of the hardest
      opperations.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Grief...? 
      
      I'd like to register my "vote" for essentially status quo 
      on the basic kits from Kolb.  I LIKED building my plane 
      and would do even more of the building if it was called for.  
      Even building the ribs seemed gratifying ...but maybe i'm 
      branding myself here. :)
      
      Kolb doing more pre-building will obviously drive up costs.
      We have already seen from this list some requests for more customer 
      service.  Which would we prefer:  lower cost, better service,
      more pre-build?  We can't ask for all of it.  They do offer 
      "quick-build" at a price, and I would think it better to have 
      the base kit stay essentially the same, and any more pre-assembly 
      go to the quick-build purchase (and cost) category.
      
      One other aspect of pre-assembled things such as H-sections.  It
      does not allow the possibility that cages may differ a teeny bit.
      What if one plane needs it's H-section mated 1/16" further forward
      or backward?  This would therefore require matching pre-H-sectioned
      spars and fuselage tubes to cages (maybe).  The cost of Kolb 
      pre-assembling some things might be higher than we first guess.  
      
      I'm just glad they do all the welding.
                                     
      - Ben Ransom                   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Grief...?
      
      I agree with Ben about keeping costs down and the "quick-build" being
      available for those that want to pay for it. Actually I was suprised at
      how many things were done for me. If they had done much more, it would
      have taken away from my satisfaction for building it myself. 
      John Jung
      >
      >Ben Ransom wrote:
      > 
      > I'd like to register my "vote" for essentially status quo
      > on the basic kits from Kolb.  I LIKED building my plane
      > and would do even more of the building if it was called for.
      > Even building the ribs seemed gratifying ...but maybe i'm
      > branding myself here. :)
      > 
      > Kolb doing more pre-building will obviously drive up costs.
      > We have already seen from this list some requests for more customer
      > service.  Which would we prefer:  lower cost, better service,
      > more pre-build?  We can't ask for all of it.  They do offer
      > "quick-build" at a price, and I would think it better to have
      > the base kit stay essentially the same, and any more pre-assembly
      > go to the quick-build purchase (and cost) category.
      > snip..
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WillU <WillU(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
BRS VLS installation
      
      Hi all
      If you would like to see Jhann G. BRS VLS installation pictures, I uploaded
      them to my web page.
      I also rescanned Jim Baker's pictures, may take longer to download but they do
      look much better.
      I'm starting in lose track of all my web page links so if you find one that
      does not work let me know.
      
      Will Uribe
      http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
kolb: Grief?...
      
       I found the "H" sections to be easy to install by using a pc of 2x6 lumber
      (this is a mkIII with 6" spar tubes).  The plank fits in the "H" and allows
      it to be pushed and turned.  A friend helps (but is not absolutely required)
      when the hole in the tube gets close to aligning with the hole in the "H"
      fitting, a couple of tapered alignment punches brings it in.  In the plans
      there is a suggested tool for location of the farthest 1/8" holes, which
      works great.
        Before painting the "H" fitting, check the clearance inside the spars, and
      prime/paint accordingly. (Don't put too much paint on it if it is already
      a tight fit.)  Grease it a little if you must, and squeeze the tube to get
      more clearance if needed.
      jim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
Painting Aluminum
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      Thank you for the advise on how to paint aluminum. I was surprised at the
      various ways suggested. Just removed the Poly-Tone off my lift struts
      with MEK as the first step to repainting.  Polished the aluminum and it
      looks so nice. I just may leave them unpainted after all. Still have to
      remove the Poly-Tone from the fuselage tube. It peels and flakes real bad
      where the pedestal support contacts the tube for trailer transportation.
      Poly-Tone is great for the fabric but I am convinced it is not a very
      durable over metal. To go to auto paint would  create a color matching
      problem. Got some thinking to do.    Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
SHop time
      
      Hi,
      
      I have enjoyed most of my time in the shop but drilling 200+ holes 
      through steel h-sections and poping all them rivits was not fun.   If 
      you thought it was fun I question your deffinition of the word.  It was 
      deffinately rewarding and I know that the H-section is installed exactly 
      right, but it was not fun.  I found getting it in place very easy so 
      that wasnt a problem.  I Used a method similar to J.H. for getting the 
      upper false ribs to align and it worked great.  The lower false ribs are 
      much more difficult.  Trying to bend the back end so it fits up around 
      the spar just right has been real difficult for me.  I wonder if people 
      are just riviting the front to the nose spar and bending right in place.  
      I havent dared do that for fear of denting the main spar tube, or 
      crimping the false rib, but it would make it much easier to get the 
      thing to fit just right.  
      
      This is barely Kolb related but I do need my trailer lights to work so I 
      can move my plane to the airport. How do you connect trailer lights?  
      there are four wires from the car, ground, riding/brake, left and right 
      turn.  And two wires from each light on the trailer.  one wire from each 
      light goes to ground.  one turn signal to each of the other wires.  
      Where do you hook in the brake/riding wire?
      
      Topher, ever droped the trailer hitch on your finger?, Armstrong
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WillU <WillU(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
Subject: 
Re: kolb: Grief?...
      
      I agree with Jim, the H section and the wing spar were not hard to line up.  I
      dont know how new the method is but the Kolb Manual now had me make a jig to
      line up the rivet holes.  It's only a piece of steel about 6" long by 1/8"
      thick by about 1" wide.  I drilled holes in it and used it as a pattern for my
      first rivet holes on the H section and wing spar. This worked very well and
      believe me I was really scared to mess up the 5 wing spar.  Nothing like the
      feeling of finishing a task right. (I have been told the fuselage H section is
      another story, will see) 
      I did have some trouble sliding the rib onto the wing spar.  The in board ribs
      slid nicely.  On the out board ribs I sanded used grease and even soapy water.
      All this time I was trying to side them in horizontally finally I turned them
      vertically and they slid right in.  (Go figure???)
      The false ribs that I have installed so far have not been a problem, they line
      up with the ribs correctly.  I clamp the false ribs to a 5 pipe cap to bend
      the back part to conform to the wing spar but thats just part of the building
      process.  I would rather do it myself then the factory charge me more for
      something I can do.  I want more airplane at a good price.
      The wing bows were very easy to bend using the car's spare tire.
      If I can do what I have done so far anyone can.
      
      Will Uribe
      Still on the first wing.
      http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
      
      
      
      << I found the "H" sections to be easy to install by using a pc of 2x6 lumber
       (this is a mkIII with 6" spar tubes).  The plank fits in the "H" and allows
       it to be pushed and turned.  A friend helps (but is not absolutely required)
       when the hole in the tube gets close to aligning with the hole in the "H"
       fitting, a couple of tapered alignment punches brings it in.  In the plans
       there is a suggested tool for location of the farthest 1/8" holes, which
       works great.
         Before painting the "H" fitting, check the clearance inside the spars, and
       prime/paint accordingly. (Don't put too much paint on it if it is already
       a tight fit.)  Grease it a little if you must, and squeeze the tube to get
       more clearance if needed.
       jim >>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: 
RE: kolb: Grief?...
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
      
      To put my H sections in, I used a notched 2x4, cutting the end of the
      2x4 just enough to make a tight fit around the cross member.  this
      allowed adjustment both in and out and turning. once the alignment for
      the 3/8 hole was done, i used a couple of wedges between the 2x4 and the
      legs of the h sections for a snug fit to the spar walls. using a long
      piece of steel and with a couple of holes one near the center and one
      near the end pre-drilled the holes both in the h section and the spar.
      Once the h section was in the spar i used clecoes to hold it in position
      while i drilled the rest of the holes.  because the holes were
      predrilled on both the spar and h section, the problem with warpage of
      the 4130 was also taken care of . Using this process made the h section
      a very easy installation. 
      
      John Wood
              -----Original Message-----
              From:        WillU [SMTP:WillU(at)aol.com]
              Sent:        Friday, April 03, 1998 1:43 PM
              To:        kolb(at)intrig.com
              Subject:        Re: kolb: Grief?...
      
              I agree with Jim, the H section and the wing spar were not hard
      to line up.  I
              don't know how new the method is but the Kolb Manual now had me
      make a jig to
              line up the rivet holes.  It's only a piece of steel about 6"
      long by 1/8"
              thick by about 1" wide.  I drilled holes in it and used it as a
      pattern for my
              first rivet holes on the H section and wing spar. This worked
      very well and
              believe me I was really scared to mess up the 5" wing spar.
      Nothing like the
              feeling of finishing a task right. (I have been told the
      fuselage H section is
              another story, will see) 
              I did have some trouble sliding the rib onto the wing spar.  The
      in board ribs
              slid nicely.  On the out board ribs I sanded used grease and
      even soapy water.
              All this time I was trying to side them in horizontally finally
      I turned them
              vertically and they slid right in.  (Go figure???)
              The false ribs that I have installed so far have not been a
      problem, they line
              up with the ribs correctly.  I clamp the false ribs to a 5" pipe
      cap to bend
              the back part to conform to the wing spar but thats just part of
      the building
              process.  I would rather do it myself then the factory charge me
      more for
              something I can do.  I want more airplane at a good price.
              The wing bows were very easy to bend using the car's spare tire.
              If I can do what I have done so far anyone can.
      
              Will Uribe
              Still on the first wing.
              http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
      
      
      GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
      
      of 2x6 lumber
               (this is a mkIII with 6" spar tubes).  The plank fits in the
      "H" and allows
               it to be pushed and turned.  A friend helps (but is not
      absolutely required)
               when the hole in the tube gets close to aligning with the hole
      in the "H"
               fitting, a couple of tapered alignment punches brings it in.
      In the plans
               there is a suggested tool for location of the farthest 1/8"
      holes, which
               works great.
                 Before painting the "H" fitting, check the clearance inside
      the spars, and
               prime/paint accordingly. (Don't put too much paint on it if it
      is already
               a tight fit.)  Grease it a little if you must, and squeeze the
      tube to get
               more clearance if needed.
               jim >>
              -
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Painting Aluminum
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
      
      Most of my exposed aluminum on my Original FS is polished. I chose this
      method over painting because it looks nice and I won't ever have to be
      concerned with the paint flaking off. I do have to take out the aluminum
      polish about once a year to keep the finish looking bright. I guess it
      saved me a lot of work, but I suppose I do make it up for lost time in my
      annual polishing routine.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      writes:
      >Thank you for the advise on how to paint aluminum. I was surprised at 
      >the various ways suggested. Just removed the Poly-Tone off my lift 
      >struts with MEK as the first step to repainting.  Polished the 
      >aluminum and it looks so nice. I just may leave them unpainted after 
      >all. Still have to remove the Poly-Tone from the fuselage tube. It 
      >peels and flakes real bad where the pedestal support contacts the tube 
      >for trailer transportation. Poly-Tone is great for the fabric but I am 
      >convinced it is not a very durable over metal. To go to auto paint 
      >would  create a color matching problem. Got some thinking to do.    
      >Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Personal messages
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
      
      Hey Mick,
      
      I enjoy your comments and I hope you don't think anyone is targeting you
      about ANY of your comments. Please do continue to play on the computer.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      >you're absolutely right, Ron. Building airplanes is very serious, 
      >stressful work. That's why I "play" at this stuff (UL's & 
      >Experimentals) in my 'free time'.
      >
      >Sorry to have squeezed your bandwidth. My apologies to you and the 
      >group for starting the thread about my occupation (BTW, what got 
      >posted to the list was small compared to what went on privately). I've 
      >been trying to spend more time with the plane and less on the computer 
      >anyway.
      >
      >
      >-Mick Fine
      >Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      >Tulsa, Oklahoma
      >http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      >mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
      >>I think the reference was to some of the gab posted by some that find
      >>they have similar outside interests or jobs that have absolutely
      >>nothing to do with flying/building Kolb airplanes. A waste of my 
      >>time, as well as others.  I doubt you could find a place to "archive" 
      >>these.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: SHop time
      
      Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
      > snip...
      > This is barely Kolb related but I do need my trailer lights to work so I
      > can move my plane to the airport. How do you connect trailer lights?
      > snip...
      >
        Check the bulbs in the trailer lights. They should have two filaments
      each. One wire is for the brake/turn signal and the other is for tail
      (running) lights. The ground is the metal. 
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM04SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27036)
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Re: SHop time
      
      There is a standard wiring color code for trlr lites.  Works with either
      flat or round plugs.  See your parts house or U-Haul.  Saves MUCH time and
      language when switching trlrs or tow vehicles.  If you have the standard
      trlr lites and bulbs as mentioned by John, and a tow vehicle with separate
      brake and turn signal lights, (imports) you will need a converter from the
      parts house  (I think it's basically a row of diodes), to prevent feedback
      through the bulbs.            Big Lar.  
      ----------
      > From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
      > To: Kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject: Re: SHop time
      > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 4:55 PM
      > 
      > Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
      > > snip...
      > > This is barely Kolb related but I do need my trailer lights to work so
      I
      > > can move my plane to the airport. How do you connect trailer lights?
      > > snip...
      > >
      >   Check the bulbs in the trailer lights. They should have two filaments
      > each. One wire is for the brake/turn signal and the other is for tail
      > (running) lights. The ground is the metal. 
      > John Jung
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
"Henry C. Wortman" <hwortman(at)mail.datasys.net>
Subject: 
Personal Merssages
      
      Mick:
              My posting was certainly not aimed at you or anyone in particular.  If
      you have never subscribed to "FLY-UL" you should for a few days and you
      will see what I was referring to.  I have to admit that I am a
      Challenger owner and am slightly envious of the communication that you
      on the Kolb list have going.  I think that the map that John is putting
      together is a great idea.  Also a little background on anyone posting a
      message gives everyone an idea of the diversity of those contributing. 
      Again, if I offended you or anyone else I apologize.  I greatly enjoy
      your contributions and hope you will keep spreading your knowledge.  
      Henry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27035)
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Warning lights
      
      Recently asked Tony at Westach (707-938-2121) about a wiring diagram for
      voltage warning lights.  He wasn't sure about that, so he went ahead and
      designed and built a module to do the job for me.  It's a black box a
      couple of inches square, weighs a couple ounces, has adjustable pots for
      high and low voltage outputs, and will power 2 lites or whatever of up to
      300 ma each.  He sent it set to light low V warning at 10VDC, and high V
      warning at 16 VDC.  Easily changed.  They must plan on selling more, gave
      my proto-type a Cat # of 329-12VLH. - Hi-Lo Warning Module.   $52.00       
       Very nicely done, very nice people.      Big Lar.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 03, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
"H" sections
      
      Cav and all,
      
      >...Preinstalled h sections would be nice too.  It is one of the hardest
      >opperations.
      
      You know, the "H" sections were no problem for me at all.  You would have
      thought they jumped into place (with the help of my trusty 2X4 notched end
      poker).  I guess we all had different buggar bears.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Personal messages
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
      
      I agree with Ralph,  Mick.  There's plenty of bandwidth for all...
      Ralph, How'd you polish your aluminum, I've painted everything ,but the
      gearlegs and haven't decided what to do with them. Any suggestions?
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 5:18 PM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Personal messages
      
      
      >Hey Mick,
      >
      >I enjoy your comments and I hope you don't think anyone is targeting you
      >about ANY of your comments. Please do continue to play on the computer.
      >
      >Ralph Burlingame
      >Original FireStar
      >
      >
      >>you're absolutely right, Ron. Building airplanes is very serious,
      >>stressful work. That's why I "play" at this stuff (UL's &
      >>Experimentals) in my 'free time'.
      >>
      >>Sorry to have squeezed your bandwidth. My apologies to you and the
      >>group for starting the thread about my occupation (BTW, what got
      >>posted to the list was small compared to what went on privately). I've
      >>been trying to spend more time with the plane and less on the computer
      >>anyway.
      >>
      >>
      >>-Mick Fine
      >>Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      >>Tulsa, Oklahoma
      >>http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      >>mefine1(at)juno.com
      >
      >
      >
      >>>I think the reference was to some of the gab posted by some that find
      >>>they have similar outside interests or jobs that have absolutely
      >>>nothing to do with flying/building Kolb airplanes. A waste of my
      >>>time, as well as others.  I doubt you could find a place to "archive"
      >>>these.
      >
      >_____________________________________________________________________
      >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
      >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
      >
      >-
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Grief...?
      
      >Concerning the  bending of false ribs. I thought  that it did not matter
      >if they conform to the main ribs since they dont touch the fabric .Is
      >this a right or wrong assumption. Ernie
      
      
      Ernie:
      
      Wrong.  False ribs may be false but they do hold the shape of the airfoil
      and most definitely touch the fabric.  If they didn't touch the fabric
      there would be no need for them.  They are not structural in nature.  IMOHO.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
ailerons
      
      Thanks for the info on trailer lights, what is throwing me is using the 
      frame as the ground instead of a wire.  My trailer has the lights 
      mounted under the wooden bed, so I am going to have to run another wire.  
      I have no idea how the guy I bought it from made them work.
      
      About to start on the ailerons on my FSII. I am going to have them come 
      inboard as far as possible without interfering with the prop.  I am also 
      considering making them one inch wider chordwise, 12" instead of 11".     
      They will be used as flaperons like on the Firefly (wing based pitch 
      trim system more then flaps, but it should also speed me up a little in 
      cruise and reduce V-stall a bit) so I am trying to get them as large as 
      possible without ruining the control feel.  Anyone building a firefly 
      know the dimensions of your ailerons?  Earlier someone talked about the 
      Firefly roll control forces, any more you could say about that and the 
      effectiveness of the flaperons would be helpful.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"merle hargis" <merlepilar(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: fuel burn Firestar 2
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
      
      Thanks to all for the advice on excess fuel burn.  I get 6100 rpm on take
      off.  By green area I mean egt & cht.  Sorry I didn't acknowledge sooner
      but I've been out of town.
      
      Merle from Orlando
      ----------
      > From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
      > To: Kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject: Re: fuel burn Firestar 2
      > Date: Sunday, March 29, 1998 10:58 PM
      > 
      > Merle,
      >     That much speed at 4,000 rpm sounds like you have too much pitch.
      > What is your max rpm static? If it is less than 6,000, it could be you
      > problem.
      > John Jung
      > >
      > >merle hargis wrote:
      > > 
      > > I have a twinstar with a 447.  My fuel burn is about 4 gph at 4000 rpm.
      > > This gives me an indicated asi of 55-60 mph.  I feel this is a high
      fuel
      > > burn.  The engine runs good and the gages are within the green.  Any
      > > suggestions how to improve the burn rate.
      > > Thanks
      > > 
      > > Merle from Orlando
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WVarnes <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
Subject: 
Re: prop harmonics
      
      Gary Shellberg
      
      You said you have a 90 Firestar with a 377 Rotax turning a 66 X 32 prop.  I
      also had this setup in the beginning.  Don't recall the THRUMMING noise you
      mentioned, but I do think your engine is lugging.  Are you able to turn up
      full rpm?  The reccomended prop for the 377 is 66 X 28.  I'm presently using a
      66 X 30, a comprimise and still can't turn up full RPM, but am satisfied with
      the performance.
      
      Bill Varnes
      Original FireStar
      Audubon, NJ
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
From: 
Kim Steiner <steiner(at)spreda.sk.ca>
Subject: 
Re: Grief...? 
      
      >I'd like to register my "vote" for essentially status quo 
      >on the basic kits from Kolb.  I LIKED building my plane 
      >and would do even more of the building if it was called for.  
      >Even building the ribs seemed gratifying ...but maybe i'm 
      >branding myself here. :)
      >
      >Kolb doing more pre-building will obviously drive up costs.
      >We have already seen from this list some requests for more customer 
      >service.  Which would we prefer:  lower cost, better service,
      >more pre-build?  We can't ask for all of it.  They do offer 
      >"quick-build" at a price, and I would think it better to have 
      >the base kit stay essentially the same, and any more pre-assembly 
      >go to the quick-build purchase (and cost) category.
      >
      >One other aspect of pre-assembled things such as H-sections.  It
      >does not allow the possibility that cages may differ a teeny bit.
      >What if one plane needs it's H-section mated 1/16" further forward
      >or backward?  This would therefore require matching pre-H-sectioned
      >spars and fuselage tubes to cages (maybe).  The cost of Kolb 
      >pre-assembling some things might be higher than we first guess.  
      >
      >I'm just glad they do all the welding.
      >                               
      >- Ben Ransom                   
      >
      
      
      I agree with Ben 100%.  This is an aircraft kit not a bolt together
      Quicksilver.  I did not find anything in the two kits that I build very
      difficult (Ultrastar and Mark 111).  Just follow the instructions and use a
      little bit of common sense and everything will go together great.  Remember 
      "the more you want - the more you will pay."
      
      Kim Steiner
      
      Saskatchewan, Canada
      Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 4551867 or,
      * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center:
      http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4551867 (go there and try it!) or,
      * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen
      4551867(at)pager.mirabilis.com
      For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
      For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to:
      http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html
      Brian "Kim" Steiner
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
tail-bracing
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 04, 1998
      
      I polish them with an aluminum polish that I found (I can't remember the
      name, but I'm sure any aluminum polish will work). Yes you can use this
      stuff on the gear legs too. They will turn out like they've been
      chrome-plated (the same for your lift struts).
      
      I replaced my tail-bracing today. After all these years, the thimbles
      were grooved and would have eventually worn though. I noticed this last
      year in my preflight. This is after 370 hours. You may want to check
      where the thimble meets the tang on the fin. This spot seemed to have the
      most wear.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
       writes:
      
      >Ralph, How'd you polish your aluminum, I've painted everything ,but 
      >the gearlegs and haven't decided what to do with them. Any suggestions?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
From: 
"Ron Christensen" <SPECTRUMINTERNATIONAL(at)classic.msn.com>
              kolb(at)intrig.com
Subject: 
RE: Kolb: gap seals
      
      Jim:
      
      I did my gap seals EXACTLY the same way you did for EXACTACLY the same 
      reasons.
      
      Ron Christensen
      
      ----------
      From:  owner-kolb(at)intrig.com on behalf of Jim Gerken 
      GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM
      Sent:  Thursday, April 02, 1998 8:49 AM
      Subject: Kolb-List:  Kolb: gap seals
      
       I used the "Book Binding Tape"Scotch 845 by 3M, about 9 bucks per roll in
      3" width.  I used a 1" wide tape adhesive-to-adhesive in the center of the
      3" tape, to cover the exposed adhesive.  This gives me 1" of adhesive on the
      wing and 1" on the aileron, which should hold great.  Last year I used 2" wide
      and that was not enough, one pc fell off.  Be sure to de-wax first.  And rub
      all the air out from under the tape.  I found the 1" wide in a nice White,
      which is my major paint color, so it looks great.
      
        WHY?  I did not try the fabric method. Several reasons, and maybe someone 
      can
      answer them:  How does one handle the painting process if the ailerons are
      attached when you are trying to handle the assembly in the paint booth?  I
      know I turned the wings over many times as I painted three coats from various
      angles, with wings suspended from ceiling.  Does the Aileron just flop around
      on there as you are doing this?  Maybe you still paint the parts seperate,
      then attach the fabric and hinges, and then paint again.  I painted hinges
      seperate, wings seperate, ailerons seperate.  Three colors makes for some
      creative masking.
        My next question/comment about fabric:  Can they be replaced easily, and 
      then
      what about paint, do you paint them after replacement?  The reason I would be
      concerned with a replacement plan is that I have seen a couple planes that
      were a few years old (5-8) that had gap seals all cracked and torn.  Renewal
      would do wonders for their appearance.  The adhesive tape really looks nice
      now that I used the 1" wide in White, smooth and glossy.  I know they will
      fail, probably within three years, but replacement of all pcs took less than
      two hours and 20 dollars, so no big trouble.  Adhesive is easy to remove
      with PPG wax and grease remover, with no harm to fabric or PolyTone.
        Install tapes with wings hanging from shop ceiling, ailerons up,
      at eye-level, for easiest job.  Wrap tapes around a 1" dowel, push into space,
      and apply.  It is that simple.
        Com'on guys, tell us how the paint process and the fabric tapes work out.
      see ya...
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      As it turned out, I happened to get the right side longer than the left
      side on top. I used a large T-square to set the right angle. I wish that
      I had put in those multi-hole tangs on the top, then you can adjust for
      any slack. If you don't have any of those, then put at least 3 washers
      under the tang that you are working on. When you are finished with that
      section, take out as many washers as needed to get that "right" angle (I
      put in only two and wished I had used one more). Also, you have to do the
      top cables first. I used that small swedger (the kind that bolts
      together). One nice feature I discovered with this one is that you can
      crimp the sleeve to the point where it grabs the cable, then you can make
      any adjustments. I had to learn this after the first try. I think you can
      do a better job using this one, it just takes longer. When I originally
      built it, I borrowed one that looks like a bolt-cutter.
      
      If you are off a couple off degrees like mine, I doubt that it will
      affect the flight characteristics, but it's nice to be close to perfect
      as possible. As it is, I can replace that part of the cable (I have lots
      of cable left over, but ran out of thimbles and sleeves). 
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
       writes:
      >Ralph, I just noticed your 'casual' remark about replacing your
      >tail-bracing.  I'm at that stage of my building and it scares me to
      >think about it.  You make it sound like a cake-walk.  Any secrets I
      >should know about?
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, Oregon
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
      
      >Ron,
      >
      >As it turned out, I happened to get the right side longer than the left
      >side on top. I used a large T-square to set the right angle. I wish that
      >I had put in those multi-hole tangs on the top, then you can adjust for
      
      
      Howdy Guys:
      
      I don't know if it is kosher or not, but I have adjusted tension in
      tailwire brace cables for a long time with good success by winding or
      unwinding (twisting or untwisting).
      
      If cable is too loose wind it up two, three, four or more times.  Too
      tight, unwind it.  I have never had a problem using this method.
      
      On the MK III one would be constantly building new wires to keep up with
      the wear on the elevator hinges.  The load of the tail wire bracing is
      borne by a side load on the piano hinges.  Over time these wear.  Mine have
      worn aprx 5/32 in 1100 hours.  Would be nice to have a thrust bearing to
      take the load, then the wires would not be constantly loosening.  If you
      don't fly much, it won't bother you much.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      Another 'great idea' from those with lots of experience.  Do the
      cables tend to coil-up or kink  when folding and unfolding?  Also, how
      about using shrink tubing over the nicopress fittings and wire ends?
      
      It really pays to read your Kolb mail! Thanks!
      
      Ron Carroll
      Original Firestar
      Independence, Oregon
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
      
      Date: Sunday April 05 1998 7:36 AM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tail-bracing
      
      
      >>Ron,
      >>
      >>As it turned out, I happened to get the right side longer than the
      left
      >>side on top. I used a large T-square to set the right angle. I wish
      that
      >>I had put in those multi-hole tangs on the top, then you can adjust
      for
      >
      >
      >
      >Howdy Guys:
      >
      >I don't know if it is kosher or not, but I have adjusted tension in
      >tailwire brace cables for a long time with good success by winding or
      >unwinding (twisting or untwisting).
      >
      >If cable is too loose wind it up two, three, four or more times.  Too
      >tight, unwind it.  I have never had a problem using this method.
      >
      >On the MK III one would be constantly building new wires to keep up
      with
      >the wear on the elevator hinges.  The load of the tail wire bracing
      is
      >borne by a side load on the piano hinges.  Over time these wear.
      Mine have
      >worn aprx 5/32 in 1100 hours.  Would be nice to have a thrust bearing
      to
      >take the load, then the wires would not be constantly loosening.  If
      you
      >don't fly much, it won't bother you much.
      >
      >john
      >
      >-
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
      
      Howdy Guys:
      
      One more note and I'mm  off the Gantt Int AP and a little flight therapy.
      
      The cable will coil when unloaded, i.e., folding tail sec.  I don't fold so
      I don;'t have that problem.
      
      I don't cover up my cable fittings with anything.  I want to be able to see
      what I have.  Uncovered does not detract from appearance.  I've had two
      airplanes that did pretty well in judging at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun and
      they didn't have anything fancy over the nicro-press fittings.
      
      Anxious to get to Lakeland,
      
      john
      
      
      >Another 'great idea' from those with lots of experience.  Do the
      >cables tend to coil-up or kink  when folding and unfolding?  Also, how
      >about using shrink tubing over the nicopress fittings and wire ends?
      >
      >It really pays to read your Kolb mail! Thanks!
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, Oregon
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
      >To: Ralph H Burlingame ; kolb(at)intrig.com
      >
      >Date: Sunday April 05 1998 7:36 AM
      >Subject: Re: tail-bracing
      >
      >
      >>>Ron,
      >>>
      >>>As it turned out, I happened to get the right side longer than the
      >left
      >>>side on top. I used a large T-square to set the right angle. I wish
      >that
      >>>I had put in those multi-hole tangs on the top, then you can adjust
      >for
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Howdy Guys:
      >>
      >>I don't know if it is kosher or not, but I have adjusted tension in
      >>tailwire brace cables for a long time with good success by winding or
      >>unwinding (twisting or untwisting).
      >>
      >>If cable is too loose wind it up two, three, four or more times.  Too
      >>tight, unwind it.  I have never had a problem using this method.
      >>
      >>On the MK III one would be constantly building new wires to keep up
      >with
      >>the wear on the elevator hinges.  The load of the tail wire bracing
      >is
      >>borne by a side load on the piano hinges.  Over time these wear.
      >Mine have
      >>worn aprx 5/32 in 1100 hours.  Would be nice to have a thrust bearing
      >to
      >>take the load, then the wires would not be constantly loosening.  If
      >you
      >>don't fly much, it won't bother you much.
      >>
      >>john
      >>
      >>-
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: fuel burn Firestar 2
      
      Merle,
          Well you have a little too much pitch, but not enough to cause that
      high of a fuel burn. I now suspect that your airspeed is reading too
      high. But that wouldn't affect your fuel burn. How about the jets? Are
      the the recommended sizes? I would check that next. How about the other
      Twinstar flyers? Could these numbers be right?
      John Jung
      
      Now merle hargis wrote:
      > 
      > Thanks to all for the advice on excess fuel burn.  I get 6100 rpm on take
      > off.  By green area I mean egt & cht.  Sorry I didn't acknowledge sooner
      > but I've been out of town.
      > 
      > Merle from Orlando
      > ----------
      > > From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
      > > To: Kolb(at)intrig.com
      > > Subject: Re: fuel burn Firestar 2
      > > Date: Sunday, March 29, 1998 10:58 PM
      > >
      > > Merle,
      > >     That much speed at 4,000 rpm sounds like you have too much pitch.
      > > What is your max rpm static? If it is less than 6,000, it could be you
      > > problem.
      > > John Jung
      > > >
      > > >merle hargis wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have a twinstar with a 447.  My fuel burn is about 4 gph at 4000 rpm.
      > > > This gives me an indicated asi of 55-60 mph.  I feel this is a high
      > fuel
      > > > burn.  The engine runs good and the gages are within the green.  Any
      > > > suggestions how to improve the burn rate.
      > > > Thanks
      > > >
      > > > Merle from Orlando
      > > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      John,
      
      Thanks for that suggestion about winding up the cable. I did do that on
      the bottom side when I attached it with the wing nut (I fold mine up
      everytime). Somehow I didn't think to do it on top. Ya know (they say
      that alot up here), I was just out to the field (20 miles away) and I
      could've done it this morning, oh well. The field was muddy so I have to
      wait for it to dry up. Think I'll go biking instead. Thanks again John.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
        
      writes:
      >Howdy Guys:
      >
      >I don't know if it is kosher or not, but I have adjusted tension in
      >tailwire brace cables for a long time with good success by winding or
      >unwinding (twisting or untwisting).
      >
      
      >john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      I find the cables don't kink and I've never had a problem with that. I do
      wrap the lower ones around the foam tail separator when the tail is
      folded.
      
      One more thing that I failed to mention this morning is not to put a
      sharp bend in the tangs. I'm sure you know this, others may not. The
      chance of the tang developing a crack at the sharp bend would be greater.
      This is one area where you don't need a failure.
      
      About putting heat shrink over the cable ends: I see a lot of guys doing
      this, but I didn't do it on mine even though it looked neater. The reason
      is so I can inspect it to look for any slippage. I just makes me feel
      more comfortable when I can see the ends. I used some clear silicone RTV
      instead.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
       writes:
      >Another 'great idea' from those with lots of experience.  Do the
      >cables tend to coil-up or kink  when folding and unfolding?  Also, how
      >about using shrink tubing over the nicopress fittings and wire ends?
      >
      >It really pays to read your Kolb mail! Thanks!
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, Oregon
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
From: 
William V Rayfield <rayfiwv(at)mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Trailers
      
      Kolb buddies,
      My father and I are going the trailer route in order to save money on
      storage during flying season. We have a metal 12' X 20' building to put it
      in in the winter or for repairs.  We located a guy who flies gliders and
      he is giving us a sweet deal on an enclosed trailer that we will simply
      have to modify (it's way too long for a Kolb!). The only thing to make
      sure of is that the tires are laarge diameter (suitable for highway use),
      and that the suspension will not slowly destroy your plane. Ours has the
      torsion suspension rather than leaf springs-it seems to give a much better
      ride. Just a note to those who buy or build a trailer-it may be worth the
      extra cost to use this type of suspension.
      
      On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Russell Savage wrote:
      
      > Kolb Friends,
      > For years sailplane pilots have been putting their gliders in
      > enclosed trailers. Why not do the same with a kolb?
      > Russ Savage
      > Columbus, Ohio
      > 
      > 
      > -
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
              dwegner(at)isd.net, theixian(at)ix.netcom.com
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      Jim,
      
      For my x-country flights I have a very spacious pouch that is located on
      the right side of the seat where I store all my goodies. I will list most
      of the items that I carry from memory:
      
      o  2-cycle oil, depending how far I plan on going, and mixing chart
      w/measuring     bottle
      o  extra gas, I carry two 3g tanks
      o  rachet and spark plug, 13mm (for prop bolts) sockets
      o  a pair of wire cutters, pliers
      o  a bag of safety wire, tie wraps, extra bolts, pins, plugs, glue, allen
      wrench (for     gear box), hitch pins (for wing fold), cotter pins,
      100mph tape, etc.
      o  spare fan belt
      o  spare fuel pump
      o  bungee for holding the aux tanks
      o  GPS, extra batteries, maps, and a backup compass
      o  Funnel for fuel transfer to the main tank
      
      I may have left some things out. I usually don't fly out of state, and
      never go into controlled airports, hence no radio. I suggest if you
      really want to see a detailed
      list, then turn to John Hauck who is the x-country king (are you there
      John?).
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      writes:
      >Ralph, 
      >1.  Your post caused me to closely examine my Firestar (I'm the second
      >owner) and found the thimble intact, but one tiny frayed cable strand 
      >in the radius.  Looks like I'll be making up some bracing wires too.
      >2.  I was wondering what you include in your cross country parts/tool 
      >kit? With all those hours you must be doing something right.  I was 
      >interested in doing some 100 mile trips this season, and hope you might
      be >able to shed some light on what you fill your goody bag with for such
      outings.
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
Date: 
Apr 05, 1998
      
      Ralph, you have been a great Guru to me and I have one more for you
      (or anyone else can offer an opinion, if they care to).
      
      I am finally to the point of adding the control cables to my Original
      Firestar.  To my surprise I find that the left rudder cable has no
      clear path to the first set of cable pulleys ( I never really checked
      it out before).  The drawing shows the cables go directly from the
      rudder pedals to the pulley, missing everything in between.  I find
      that the left rudder cable has a conflict with the control stick
      assembly and the structural member the stick is attached to. The right
      rudder cable has a clear path.
      
      My question, of course, is:  Did you have this same problem with
      yours.  If so, how did you overcome it?  If you didn't have the
      problem, something is screwy with mine.
      
      Incidentally, I'm again impressed with what you guys can get aboard
      when you go cross-country.  I suspect I'll find nooks & crannies too,
      when it comes to down to it.  Just stay clear of the control cables
      and aileron mechanisms, right?
      
      I'll get this out, before everyone goes to bed.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Ron Carroll
      Original Firestar
      Independence, OR
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
      
      Ron,
        My original Firestar has a piece of plastic tubing attached to the
      control stick and the left rudder cable passes through it. That was a
      least the builders solution. It has 340 hours without a problem so I
      guess it worked.
      John Jung
      
      >
      >Ron Carroll wrote:
      > 
      > Ralph, you have been a great Guru to me and I have one more for you
      > (or anyone else can offer an opinion, if they care to).
      > 
      > I am finally to the point of adding the control cables to my Original
      > Firestar.  To my surprise I find that the left rudder cable has no
      > clear path to the first set of cable pulleys ( I never really checked
      > it out before).  The drawing shows the cables go directly from the
      > rudder pedals to the pulley, missing everything in between.  I find
      > that the left rudder cable has a conflict with the control stick
      > assembly and the structural member the stick is attached to. The right
      > rudder cable has a clear path.
      > 
      > My question, of course, is:  Did you have this same problem with
      > yours.  If so, how did you overcome it?  If you didn't have the
      > problem, something is screwy with mine.
      > 
      > Incidentally, I'm again impressed with what you guys can get aboard
      > when you go cross-country.  I suspect I'll find nooks & crannies too,
      > when it comes to down to it.  Just stay clear of the control cables
      > and aileron mechanisms, right?
      > 
      > I'll get this out, before everyone goes to bed.
      > 
      > Thanks,
      > 
      > Ron Carroll
      > Original Firestar
      > Independence, OR
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Flying season/Polytone
      
      Kolb flyers & builders,
         Well the flying season has started in Wisconsin. This weekend we had
      two sunny days and I got 2.6 hours and stopped at 5 airports, 2 on
      Saturday and 3 on Sunday. But the real highlight of the weekend was that
      two different people asked me if my 340 hour original Firestar was new.
      That made me feel good. There is a message here for people who wonder if
      those 20 year claims for poly-fiber (Stits) are true. My original
      Firestar has the polyfiber covering with ploytone and is about 10 years
      old. If it can be mistaken for new after 10 years, 20 should be a
      breeze, a spring breeze.
      John Jung
      SE Wisconsin
      Mapmaker  http:www.execpc.com/~jrjung/Kolb_Map.html
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Scott Bentley <Scott.Bentley(at)Bentley.Com>
Subject: 
Digital Cameras, Aerial Photos, My Advice...
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
      
      John Hauck asked the question below over a week ago, and I've been
      trying to find the time to write a complete response.
      
      I do not own a scanner, though I have access to several at work and have
      friends that use them.  However, I've purchased 3 different digital
      cameras over the last 18 months or so, and have quite a bit of advice on
      the subject.  Those who object to off-airplane topics please delete now
      and forgive me.
      
      For some background, I'm definitely "paperwork organization challenged."
      I have a database of about 65,000 email messages that I carry with me on
      my laptop.  I can locate any of them, going back a year or two, with
      little effort (I found last year's lexan message in 90 seconds in a
      hotel in Springfield, Illinois.)  But I can rarely find any paper memo
      or letter older than a week.
      
      One of the main benefits of digital cameras to me, therefore, is that I
      can easily find any picture I've ever taken.  The camera automatically
      organizes them by date, since I generally take 5-30 at a time, then
      store them all in a directory.  If I want to find something I took years
      ago, to make a point or something, its easy.  But there's far more
      benefits to a digital camera.
      
      The half-life of most photographs is about two weeks.  You fly over
      someone's house, you take a picture (or your co-pilot takes a picture),
      you want to show them right away.  That's the benefit of a Polaroid.
      But if your friends have web access, as most people seem these days, you
      can do far better.  I dump almost every "roll" of vacation, event
      (wedding, etc.), aerial photography, etc. on the web as soon as I
      download them.  Then I email those who might be interested - the
      relatives who missed the wedding, the people who's house was under
      construction, etc.  There's a sample of this in
      http://www.bentley.com/scott.  I almost NEVER label any of the pictures,
      to protect the privacy of the people depicted.  I simply send the URL
      for the specific pictures to the people who might care.
      
      The only benefit of film pictures and subsequent scanning is that the
      film pictures are far better resolution.  However, since I'm not much of
      a photographer (and in the plane I never take pictures, I have the
      copilot do this so I can concentrate on flying the plane.) I don't mind
      the lower resolution.  Since no film or processing or scanning are
      involved, things I'm too lazy to do anyway, I find I take more pictures
      with my digital cameras than I ever would with film.
      
      My first camera was a Kodak DC25.  The second was an Olympus DL-300.
      The third and most recent is the Olympus DL-500.
      
      The Kodak was great, but only took pictures at 640 x 480 resolution.
      This is acceptable for some applications, but my personal standard is
      1024 x 768.  I bought the DL-300 to achieve this, and most of the
      pictures were taken with it.  I got the DL-500 for its zoom
      capabilities, and now use that for aerial photography.  I still use the
      DL-300 where zoom is not important, since it is smaller, and easier to
      use (my 8 year old son took several of the pictures from the Bahamas in
      http://www.bentley.com/scott/bahamas398/).
      
      When selecting a digital camera, I suggest you look at these factors:
      
          1) Resolution.  Nothing under 640 x 480 should be considered.
          2) Flash.  Don't buy one without it.
          3) LCD preview on back.  This is necessary to decide whether you
      want to keep or delete your picture.  One of the main benefits of a
      digital camera is that you can delete pictures as soon as you take them
      and try again.
          4) Batteries.  I find that, if you use disposable batteries,
      particularly non-standard batteries as the DC-25 used, you can pay as
      much for the batteries as you would for film and processing.  I now use
      Olympus rechargeable batteries and am pleased with them.
          5) Download techniques.  The most difficult part of the DL-300 is
      remembering where I left the cable - home computer, office computer, or
      laptop.  The DL-500 has a much better solution.  I can use a cable
      (though Olympus changed the standard so I can't use the same cable for
      both cameras.)  Or I can remove the "smartmedia" card, which stores up
      to 8MB of pictures (around 42 at 1024 x 768 resolution) on a small card
      the size of a postage stamp.  I can then place this in a PCMIA adapter,
      then put this in my laptop where it emulates a disk drive.  This allows
      me to copy them to my hard drive in seconds.
      
      The Sony Mavica puts the pictures on a floppy, which is conceptually
      better.  However, the camera is large and heavy and low resolution.
      
      At any rate, that's my take on Digital Cameras.  Thanks for listening.
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        john hauck [SMTP:hawk36(at)mindspring.com]
              ...
      > Also an exceptionally clear photo.  I'm in the market for a scanner
      > and was
      > wondering what can you use.  It really did a good job on the project.
      > Or
      > did you use a digital camera?  I'm still awfully new at this computer
      > game
      > (two months) and trying like hell to grasp all the knowledge I can,
      > which
      > ain't much.
      > 
      > john hauck
      > 
              ...
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
      
      John,
      
      By spining the cables are you making them onto more of a spring then a 
      tension member?  I wonder if that might set the tail bouncing.
      
      I a little worried about getting too heavy on aileron control feel, but 
      you can adjust that by changing the lever arms as needed, moving the 
      aileron pushrods inboard on the aileron belcrank.  As long as they are 
      mass balanced there shouldnt be more of a flutter problem due to size.    
      I could resort to putting a small area balance on the arm with the mass 
      balance to reduce forces too, but that gets tricky.  I am hoping to 
      wring out a little better speed range with the flaperons and slightly 
      reduced wing area, which may seem silly since it is so good on the Kolbs 
      already, but thats why I am building a kit instead of just buying a 
      champ, to have fun learning how these trade offs end up changing my 
      plane.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
      
      >John,
      >
      >By spining the cables are you making them onto more of a spring then a 
      >tension member?  I wonder if that might set the tail bouncing.
      >
      >I a little worried about getting too heavy on aileron control feel, but 
      >you can adjust that by changing the lever arms as needed, moving the 
      >aileron pushrods inboard on the aileron belcrank.  As long as they are 
      >mass balanced there shouldnt be more of a flutter problem due to size.    
      >I could resort to putting a small area balance on the arm with the mass 
      >balance to reduce forces too, but that gets tricky.  I am hoping to 
      >wring out a little better speed range with the flaperons and slightly 
      >reduced wing area, which may seem silly since it is so good on the Kolbs 
      >already, but thats why I am building a kit instead of just buying a 
      >champ, to have fun learning how these trade offs end up changing my 
      >plane.
      >
      >Topher
      
      
      Howdy:
      
      I don't think you'll have to worry about tail bounce.  The tail section on
      a kolb firestar and mk III is going to move around because the tailboom is
      flexible.  Cable tension won't be a problem.
      
      Kolbs, less the Sling Shot, have very large ailerons.  They will load up as
      speed increases.  At lower speeds they work fine with little stiffness.
      Even the Sling Shot loads up above 80 mph.  I reduced the size of the
      ailerons on my MK III and they still load up above 60 MPH.  Those big wing
      sections will never roll like an aerobatic aircraft.  They weren't designed
      for that, but for exceptionally great supr STOL performance, and they do a
      good job at that.
      
      One case of original Firestar with aileron spades to assist in reducing
      stiff ailerons resulted in wing failure and fatality.  At higher speeds be
      gentle and the aircraft will respond.  Those big ailerons may save your ass
      one of these days by providing control at exceptionally slow speeds in
      exceptionally turbulent air on landing.  It has mine on many occasions.
      Don't try to make the aircraft into something it wasn't designed to do.  If
      you want a highspeed aircraft, build a Glasair or Pulsar.  Aerobatic, build
      a Extra 300.  The MK III likes to fly 75-85.  It reaches it's limits of
      effectiveness about 85.  Then no mater how much horsepower you hang on it,
      it won't fly but 90 to 95, which is not comfortable.
      
      Remember, if you vary from the designer's design and change one thing, then
      something else will also need to be changed.  Get advice from Dennis Souder
      on changes, unless you are an aircraft designer.  BTW, everything that was
      changed on my MK III was blessed by Homer Kolb.
      
      My opinion only.
      
      john hauck
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Digital Cameras, Aerial Photos, My Advice...
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      I appreciate your excellent advice regarding digital cameras.     Ray
      Lujon...Woodbury, MN
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
      
      Hi John,
      
      Very good advice.  Do you know if the wing failure was due to the spades 
      causing a problem or was it because the pilot was flying real fast hard 
      manuvers that the spades allowed?  I am trying to make an even better  
      stol plane that still goes as fast as a standard FSII.  I really dont 
      see much point in going faster.  My changes are fairly small, the wings 
      have two feet less span since I didn't add the extension tubes to the 
      trailing edge tubes.  The ailerons are going to be nearly full span, 
      like the original FS which gets me back close to the same wing area with 
      lower aspect ratio. I am cnsidering making them deeper chordwise to get 
      back to the exact same wing area but that would get into the real heavy 
      feel problem.  They are going to be usable as flaperons like the Firefly 
      which increases clmax abit lowering stall speed and when reflexed 
      slightly lowering drag at the top end, for lower fuel consumption at 
      cruise not for higher speed.  I am not the least interested in 
      aerobatics or even hard manuvering as I tend to get airsick when doing 
      those things!!!  I was doing falling leaf manuevers and Steep-overs on 
      saturday in the Champ in real bumpy powerful thermals and found myself 
      getting a bit quesy, mostly when the instructor was showing me the 
      manuvers.  I am an Aerospace Engineer with 8 years experiance in 
      Aerodynamic Stability and Control but I value your 1000 hours experience 
      in Kolbs more then my "Book learning"!
      
      Any Firefly-ers out there have any comments on the flaperon 
      effectiveness?
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing
       <3.0.1.32.19980406104502.0079b730(at)pop.mindspring.com>
      
      >Hi John,
      >
      >Very good advice.  Do you know if the wing failure was due to the spades 
      >causing a problem or was it because the pilot was flying real fast hard 
      
      I'm not sure what the official cause of failure was.  I believe the spads
      added to the ailerons ability to overstress the wing in twist.  The pilot
      had a reputation, by his own mouth, to have no limit as to what he would
      attempt to do with the plane.
      
      
      Those big ailerons can put a tremendous load on a wing if enough force is
      applied.  Spads allow the pilot to do just that.  On the other hand, the
      Sling Shot has small ailerons and short wing span.  It rolls well and is
      very responsive.  I did notice flying at Sun & Fun last year with a 20 to
      25 MPH cross wind on short final to the east over the big ditch, that I
      would hit the aileron stop occasionally.  Never have to worry about this in
      a Firestar or MK III.  However, most of us are not going to fly in this
      kind of wind unless we get caught out in it and have no other choice.  It
      is comforting to know that one can fly in these conditions before one
      actually gets involved.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      I agree with John Jung, the left rudder does come in contact with the
      control stick platform. Like John said, Kolb gave us a piece of spaghetti
      tubing to slip over that part of the cable. It works fine because my
      cables are not chafed in 11 years.
      
      Thanks for the compliment Ron. This is our hobby and I enjoy helping out
      when I can. I find there is so much experience and talent here, that I'm
      still learning too.
       
      Remember: "When a pilot thinks he knows it all, then the end is near."
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar 
      
      
       writes:
      >Ralph, you have been a great Guru to me and I have one more for you
      >(or anyone else can offer an opinion, if they care to).
      >
      >I am finally to the point of adding the control cables to my Original
      >Firestar.  To my surprise I find that the left rudder cable has no
      >clear path to the first set of cable pulleys ( I never really checked
      >it out before).  The drawing shows the cables go directly from the
      >rudder pedals to the pulley, missing everything in between.  I find
      >that the left rudder cable has a conflict with the control stick
      >assembly and the structural member the stick is attached to. The right
      >rudder cable has a clear path.
      >
      >My question, of course, is:  Did you have this same problem with
      >yours.  If so, how did you overcome it?  If you didn't have the
      >problem, something is screwy with mine.
      >
      >Incidentally, I'm again impressed with what you guys can get aboard
      >when you go cross-country.  I suspect I'll find nooks & crannies too,
      >when it comes to down to it.  Just stay clear of the control cables
      >and aileron mechanisms, right?
      >
      >I'll get this out, before everyone goes to bed.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, OR
      >
      >
      >-
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
      
      The remedy you and John gave sound ok to me, but it was not a part of
      my kit.  Sometime when you go out to the airport I wonder if you would
      give me a couple of specifics on the tube, i.e.,  what kind of tubing,
      size and length, and how is it fastened to the airframe, also does it
      go on the port or starboard side of the frame member that supports the
      control stick?
      
      It never seems to end, does it?  Sorry, but sure am glad I have you
      guys out there.
      
      Ron
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      Date: Monday April 06 1998 2:58 PM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
      
      
      >Ron,
      >
      >I agree with John Jung, the left rudder does come in contact with the
      >control stick platform. Like John said, Kolb gave us a piece of
      spaghetti
      >tubing to slip over that part of the cable. It works fine because my
      >cables are not chafed in 11 years.
      >
      >Thanks for the compliment Ron. This is our hobby and I enjoy helping
      out
      >when I can. I find there is so much experience and talent here, that
      I'm
      >still learning too.
      >
      >Remember: "When a pilot thinks he knows it all, then the end is
      near."
      >
      >Ralph Burlingame
      >Original FireStar
      >
      >
      > writes:
      >>Ralph, you have been a great Guru to me and I have one more for you
      >>(or anyone else can offer an opinion, if they care to).
      >>
      >>I am finally to the point of adding the control cables to my
      Original
      >>Firestar.  To my surprise I find that the left rudder cable has no
      >>clear path to the first set of cable pulleys ( I never really
      checked
      >>it out before).  The drawing shows the cables go directly from the
      >>rudder pedals to the pulley, missing everything in between.  I find
      >>that the left rudder cable has a conflict with the control stick
      >>assembly and the structural member the stick is attached to. The
      right
      >>rudder cable has a clear path.
      >>
      >>My question, of course, is:  Did you have this same problem with
      >>yours.  If so, how did you overcome it?  If you didn't have the
      >>problem, something is screwy with mine.
      >>
      >>Incidentally, I'm again impressed with what you guys can get aboard
      >>when you go cross-country.  I suspect I'll find nooks & crannies
      too,
      >>when it comes to down to it.  Just stay clear of the control cables
      >>and aileron mechanisms, right?
      >>
      >>I'll get this out, before everyone goes to bed.
      >>
      >>Thanks,
      >>
      >>Ron Carroll
      >>Original Firestar
      >>Independence, OR
      >>
      >>
      >>-
      >>
      >
      >_____________________________________________________________________
      >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
      >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
      >
      >-
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      That tube is nothing more than a piece of clear tubing that you can pick
      up at the local hardware store. It just slides over the cable and is less
      than a foot in length. It does not attach to the airframe in any way. I
      think the cable is 3/32" so you would want 1/8" id tubing. Bring a piece
      of cable to the store and find a piece of tubing that fits snuggly over
      it. 
      
      Ralph
      
      
       writes:
      >The remedy you and John gave sound ok to me, but it was not a part of
      >my kit.  Sometime when you go out to the airport I wonder if you would
      >give me a couple of specifics on the tube, i.e.,  what kind of tubing,
      >size and length, and how is it fastened to the airframe, also does it
      >go on the port or starboard side of the frame member that supports the
      >control stick?
      >
      >It never seems to end, does it?  Sorry, but sure am glad I have you
      >guys out there.
      >
      >Ron
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      >To: kolb(at)intrig.com 
      >Date: Monday April 06 1998 2:58 PM
      >Subject: Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
      >
      >
      >>Ron,
      >>
      >>I agree with John Jung, the left rudder does come in contact with the
      >>control stick platform. Like John said, Kolb gave us a piece of
      >>spaghetti tubing to slip over that part of the cable. It works fine
      because my
      >>cables are not chafed in 11 years.
      >>
      >>Thanks for the compliment Ron. This is our hobby and I enjoy helping
      >>out when I can. I find there is so much experience and talent here,
      that
      >I'm still learning too.
      >>
      >>Remember: "When a pilot thinks he knows it all, then the end is
      >near."
      >>
      >>Ralph Burlingame
      >>Original FireStar
      >>
      >>
      >> writes:
      >>>Ralph, you have been a great Guru to me and I have one more for you
      >>>(or anyone else can offer an opinion, if they care to).
      >>>
      >>>I am finally to the point of adding the control cables to my
      >>>Original Firestar.  To my surprise I find that the left rudder cable
      has no
      >>>clear path to the first set of cable pulleys ( I never really
      >>>checked it out before).  The drawing shows the cables go directly from
      the
      >>>rudder pedals to the pulley, missing everything in between.  I find
      >>>that the left rudder cable has a conflict with the control stick
      >>>assembly and the structural member the stick is attached to. The
      >>>right rudder cable has a clear path.
      >>>
      >>>My question, of course, is:  Did you have this same problem with
      >>>yours.  If so, how did you overcome it?  If you didn't have the
      >>>problem, something is screwy with mine.
      >>>
      >>>Incidentally, I'm again impressed with what you guys can get aboard
      >>>when you go cross-country.  I suspect I'll find nooks & crannies
      >>>too, when it comes to down to it.  Just stay clear of the control
      cables
      >>>and aileron mechanisms, right?
      >>>
      >>>I'll get this out, before everyone goes to bed.
      >>>
      >>>Thanks,
      >>>
      >>>Ron Carroll
      >>>Original Firestar
      >>>Independence, OR
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
spades
      
              Question to the net and especially John Hauck: flying the MKIII on
      trashy days, I get a little tired working the ailerons on a cross country
      flight, and was thinking of some small spades just to add a little "power
      steering" to the control effort. I am not an aerobatic type pilot nor a
      "yank it and bank it" type, more a lazy cross-country sight see-er. Opinion
      of small spades to ease things up: a good thing, or too much of a good
      thing? (Since the trip to Oshkosh this summer is starting to look like a go,
      now is the time to decide). If it makes a difference, due to the constraints
      of the other 6 aircraft, we will be flying 50-55 mph.
              Thanks
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
Russell Savage <rsavage(at)freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: 
Kolb L/D
      
      Kolb Friends,
      Does anyone know what the L over D is on a Firestar 1 and Firestar 2 ?
      Russ Savage
      Columbus, Ohio
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: spades
      
      >        Question to the net and especially John Hauck: flying the MKIII on
      >trashy days, I get a little tired working the ailerons on a cross country
      >flight, and was thinking of some small spades just to add a little "power
      >steering" to the control effort. I am not an aerobatic type pilot nor a
      
      
      Richard:
      
      Maybe you are working your ailrons too much.  In rough air I tend to let
      the airplane fly itself.  Anybody would get tired in a short time if they
      try to compensate for every bump.  The amount of XC work you do has a lot
      to do with getting tired.  I haven't done a decent XC since Oshkosh 96.  To
      try and do that trip tomorrow would really hurt, 12 hours one way no matter
      which way and how hard I fly.  When I am in the groove I can do 8, 10, and
      even 12 hour days, but my mind and body have to be accustomed to it.  In 94
      during my 41 day trip I actually flew 30 days and averaged 7.8 hrs a day
      for that 30 days of flying.
      
      As for the addition of spades, better direct that question to the designer.
       You mentioned flying 50 to 55 mph, you should have little or no stick
      pressure at those speeds.  I'm afraid I wasn't much help.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 06, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: tail-bracing/ and a question.
      
      Ron:
      The tube is ~2' long altho 14" or so would do.  It is clear but not 
      as soft as fuel hose, and not quite as stiff as Tygon altho that would
      work fine if you could get it to be straight instead of the natural curl
      of it's packaging.  It's only purpose is to keep the cable from wearing 
      against the control stick support tube.  Tie-wrap the plastic tube to the 
      left side of the support tube so that it won't work its way forward or back.
      (Obviously you could always call up Mike @kolb and buy the real thing that
      way.)
      
      Topher:
      As for longer chord ailerons, another aspect to be aware of is whether they
      would clear the tail when everything is folded.  It is close back there when 
      built to plans, so bigger chord ailerons aggravates that problem.  As for the 
      other reasons (lower stall w/ flaps, and better cruise economy w/ reflex),
      I kinda recall others saying the flaps on the FF and SS don't do much except 
      increase drag, i.e. they slow you down and steepen your descent, but don't 
      really change stall speed much at all.  I personally wouldn't want the 
      heavier ailerons at the expense of lower aspect ratio.  Lower aspect ratio 
      theoretically will be less efficient  (higher induced drag), and therefor 
      would somewhat offset the benefit of reflexing the "flaps".  If the flaps 
      don't really reduce the stall speed then the whole thing maybe starts to 
      lose appeal, so it'll be interesting to get a recheck from FF and SS 
      drivers on that aspect.  
      Good luck with it either way.  
      -Ben Ransom
      
      >The remedy you and John gave sound ok to me, but it was not a part of
      >my kit.  Sometime when you go out to the airport I wonder if you would
      >give me a couple of specifics on the tube, i.e.,  what kind of tubing,
      >size and length, and how is it fastened to the airframe, also does it
      >go on the port or starboard side of the frame member that supports the
      >control stick?
      >
      >It never seems to end, does it?  Sorry, but sure am glad I have you
      >guys out there.
      >
      >Ron
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Kolb L/D
      
      Russ,
         My original Firestar is 8.8.  The Firstar I/II should be similar. 
      John Jung
      SE Wisconsin
      >
      >Russell Savage wrote:
      > 
      > Kolb Friends,
      > Does anyone know what the L over D is on a Firestar 1 and Firestar 2 ?
      > Russ Savage
      > Columbus, Ohio
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Fly-in
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      
      This is a post for anyone in the central Alabama, central Georgia area. 
      There is a fly-in planned on May 30 at Jones Field. The organizer is the
      regional Challenger dealer named George Travis Phone# 334-742-9922 (for
      info.). The field is located in Smith Station, Al. (approx. 20 miles wnw
      of Columbus, Ga. (CSG)) The GPS coordinates for the gadget guys out
      there are:
      Lat N32-30   Long W85-05
      
      Other pertinent info is...
      Elevation 440' msl
      Runway 05-23  -  2000' grass
      power lines both ends
      Fly pattern to north of field
      
      Met John Hauck there last year , flying in again this year, John???
      
      Hey you Slingshot guys out there that were looking for a midway point
      between Pensacola and Atlanta, how 'bout it??
      
      Always have good grilled burgers and stuff..
      
      Jeremy (Not really connected to the Fly-in just like to go) Casey
      jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
This is a
      post for
      anyone in the central Alabama, central Georgia area.  There is a
      fly-in
      planned on May 30 at Jones Field. The organizer is the regional
      Challenger
      dealer named George Travis Phone# 334-742-9922 (for info.). The field is
      located
      in Smith Station, Al. (approx. 20 miles wnw of Columbus, Ga. (CSG)) The
      GPS
      coordinates for the gadget guys out there are:
      
Lat N32-30   Long
      W85-05
      
 
      
Other
      pertinent info
      is...
      
Elevation
      440'
      msl
      
Runway
      05-23 
      -  2000' grass
      
power
      lines both
      ends
      
Fly
      pattern to north of
      field
      
 
      
Met John
      Hauck there
      last year , flying in again this year, John???
      
 
      
Hey you
      Slingshot guys
      out there that were looking for a midway point between Pensacola and
      Atlanta,
      how 'bout it??
      
 
      
Always
      have good grilled
      burgers and stuff..
      
 
      
Jeremy
      (Not really
      connected to the Fly-in just like to go) Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com<=
      /DIV>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
RE: ailerons
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      Hi John, I commented several days back about the FF high roll control forces
      and my lengthening the stick.  However, since I have no time in a FS, I
      can't compare my current stick forces to a FS.  Even with the longer stick
      the force is noticeably higher than the Hurricane I used to fly.  Re the
      flaperon effectiveness, I only have 6 hrs in the FF and do not yet feel
      qualified to comment.  I do use full down setting for landing at my short
      home field, if for nothing else than the hope that the added drag will
      significantly shorten my landing roll.  Like you I would like to hear more
      about their effectiveness from experienced operators.
      Chris Wayland
      
      > ----------
      > From:         Christopher John Armstrong[SMTP:tophera(at)centuryinter.net]
      > Sent:         Saturday, April 04, 1998 10:19 AM
      > To:         Kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject:         ailerons
      > 
              ..........  Earlier someone talked about the 
      > Firefly roll control forces, any more you could say about that and the 
      > effectiveness of the flaperons would be helpful.........
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
William V Rayfield <rayfiwv(at)mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Fly-in
      
      I encourage anyone who can to try to attend this fly-in.  There are some
      great guys to talk with and it's a neat field with several spots around it
      to hop into.  I'm currently getting training there in one of the
      Challenger II's.  Hope to see you there.
       
      Bill Rayfield
      Part owner of Ultrastar-not far from completion
      
      
      On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Jeremy Casey wrote:
      
      > This is a post for anyone in the central Alabama, central Georgia area.  There
      is a fly-in planned on May 30 at Jones Field. The organizer is the regional
      Challenger dealer named George Travis Phone# 334-742-9922 (for info.). The field
      is located in Smith Station, Al. (approx. 20 miles wnw of Columbus, Ga. (CSG))
      The GPS coordinates for the gadget guys out there are:
      > Lat N32-30   Long W85-05
      > 
      > Other pertinent info is...
      > Elevation 440' msl
      > Runway 05-23  -  2000' grass
      > power lines both ends
      > Fly pattern to north of field
      > 
      > Met John Hauck there last year , flying in again this year, John???
      > 
      > Hey you Slingshot guys out there that were looking for a midway point between
      Pensacola and Atlanta, how 'bout it??
      > 
      > Always have good grilled burgers and stuff..
      > 
      > Jeremy (Not really connected to the Fly-in just like to go) Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
SS flaperons
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      >would somewhat offset the benefit of reflexing the "flaps".  If the flaps
      >don't really reduce the stall speed then the whole thing maybe starts to
      >lose appeal, so it'll be interesting to get a recheck from FF and SS
      >drivers on that aspect.
      
      
      Hi all,
      
      On the SS, I wanted to disable the flaperons because they just seemed
      unnecessary.  I talked to Dennis and he assured me that they would make a few
      mph difference in the stall speed, so I left them alone.  He was correct of
      course, they do make about 3 mph difference in my stall speed, and they also
      seem to add a ton of drag even though they only deploy to about 20 degrees.  At
      idle, my descent rate is fairly rock-like already and the flaps are certainly
      not needed to increase this.  I never use them, and have never made a single
      landing with flaps deployed.
      
      To me, the biggest potential for the flaperon arrangement would be the ability
      to use them as trim, or to reflex them upward for more speed at cruise.  This
      would require longer push pull tubes for mine, but it's a project that will
      never happen.
      
      For the record, I'm the first to admit that I haven't really explored the low
      speed end of the performance envelope much.  It just doesn't interest me.  I
      don't drop below 60 mph in the pattern, and never cruise below 5500 rpm.  If my
      engine happens to quit over a less than perfect emergency field, I'll probably
      use the flaps, but for normal operation, they just aren't needed.
      
      Rusty
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
Re: Fly-in
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      >Hey you Slingshot guys out there that were looking for a midway point between
      >Pensacola and Atlanta, how 'bout it??
      
      Sounds like a possibility.  I'll keep the message and see how things work out.
      
      Rusty
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
SlingShot for sale
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      Hi everyone,
      
      It's official, I've decided to sell my SlingShot.  I expect to have the
      restricted time flown off by about the end of this month (weather permitting),
      so it would be ready to go anytime after that.  I have no idea what it's worth,
      but I hope to get about what I've got in it ($15k).  Pictures and flight logs
      are on my web page.  If you know anyone that's interested, please send them my
      way.
      
      Thanks,
      Russell Duffy
      SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
      rad(at)pen.net
      http://www.pen.net/~rad/
      850-936-8791 (home)
      
      
      PS- I took my first RV ride today in my old RV-6 project aircraft, and decided
      that I need to devote my full attention to finishing my RV-8A.  I just don't
      have the time and money to build and own at the same time.  After today's
      flight, I'm more convinced than ever that the RV-8A is the plane I really want
      to fly.  We saw a max speed of 185 mph at 1000 ft, played fighter pilot in the
      pattern, and did a couple of rolls (not in the pattern).  The rolls were my
      first aerobatics.  He did one, then I did the next.  Now if I could just get
      this stupid grin off my face :-))))))
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
Trailering
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      Several days ago I asked for advice on moving my FF in and out of its
      enclosed trailer.  Got lots of good suggestions.  What I ended up doing was
      probably the simplest approach and had a side benefit.  
      
      My single axle trailer is kept at my home field and is used more as a hanger
      than trailer.  The FF is stored nose forward.  My method of  FF deployment
      is as follows:  The front is kept  jacked up so that the angled floor is in
      the same plane as the opened door/ramp.  Thus I can roll the FF in or out
      with no problem clearing the door sill with the lower edge of the folded
      wings.  The back of tipped trailer is firmly supported by wood blocks so the
      floor won't change angle as the FF is moved in or out.  I attached a 3/4
      inch high block of wood to the floor just behind the tail wheel to
      temporarily "latch" the FF in place during movements in or out.  The main
      wheels are chocked and also strapped to the floor.  (I do have a swing up
      rest to mount the boom in an elevated position for trailering.)
      
      To deploy the FF I remove the main gear restraints and let the FF roll back
      about 1 1/2 inches until the tail wheel stops against the 3/4 inch wood
      stop.  Then I go to the tail and ease the tail wheel over the stop and guide
      the FF as it rolls out.  Storing is essentially just the reverse of this
      drill.
      
      The side benefit is that with the trailer always stored in the tilted
      position the rain water no longer pools on the roof.  My 12 year old third
      hand trailer is not as water tight as it once was so I don't need long
      dwelling pools on the roof.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
wood <wood(at)mail.wincom.net>
Subject: 
ignore-test
      
      wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
      wwwwwwwwwww
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
"william f. davis" <custom_search(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: 
618 Rotax
      
      Hello all!  I confess I have been lurking for quite awhile here and have
      learned quite bit from the post to the list.  I am building a Mark III in=
      
      the Pittsburgh area.  I am working on the tail section right now so I hav=
      e
      quite a bit to go yet.  I have noticec very few post regarding the ROTAX
      618 engine and wondering what the experience of the group is with this
      engine.  there is quite a difference inprice I have found out between the=
      
      price of the 618 and the four cycle.  Any comments?
      
      Bill Davis
      McKeesport, Pa  (15 miles south of Pittsburgh
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: SS flaperons
      
      Hay defector Duffy,
      
      I always loved the RV's but they are a really big project and lots of 
      money too!  If your going to fly RV's you better get used to landing 
      with flaps, the stall speed is way up there, and they will glide to the 
      next county without them.  I would admit that a couple of MPH on either 
      end of the envelope probably doesnt amount to much, but it might allow 
      me to get into some real small fields safer then not, and to cruise 
      around a little bit longer and maybe a bit faster.  Not faster top end 
      but faster economy cruise.  I bet the sling shot does drop fairly well 
      without flaps, but with flaps when you push the nose over you will be 
      able to drop faster still and not pickup speed in the process.  real 
      useful for short fields.  The trim feature might work out real well.  
      You wouldnt need longer pushrods to use reflex just drill out the rivits 
      holding the aileron horns in place and rotate them in the Aileron tube a 
      bit.  I havent figured out what reflex I will use, probably 4 and for 
      sure less then 6 degrees, the linkage is good for about 25 degrees of 
      rotation, so I dont want to use it all up on reflex. 
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
thanks for the tour
      
      Hi Ray,
      
      It was fun to meet you and see your plane.  Makes me wish mine was ready 
      to go!  Your trailer set up look real easy,  if you built a cover for it  
      then you could leave the whole thing at your field, making it that much 
      easier to get flying.  I will let you know if I am going to buy the 
      sprayer in a week or two.  Your advice about keeping everything inside 
      the cockpit black to reduce reflections off the canopy is going to be 
      put to good use.  
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Frank & Winnie Hodson" <fwhodson(at)megalink.net>
Subject: 
Re: spades
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
      
      When considering  the addition of aileron spades:  all forces are equal,
      they are just diverted to somewhere else.    Presently they are split
      between the ailerons, hinges and the stick (your arm effort).  The spades
      collect air pressure, loading this additional pressure against the ailerons
      and related hinges to decrease the stick pressure.  You would want to be
      sure that sufficient  safety margin has been designed into these areas to
      avoid the possibility of fatigue failure.  You may find it more desirable to
      "fatigue" your arm (hopefully it won't separate and fall off in flight, your
      designer built in a wider safety margin)
      
                                                          Frank Hodson
                                                          Oxford, Maine
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: SlingShot for sale/RV ride
Date: 
Apr 07, 1998
      
      
      and did a couple of rolls (not in the pattern).  The rolls were my
      >first aerobatics.  He did one, then I did the next.  Now if I could just
      get
      >this stupid grin off my face :-))))))
      
      
      I had my first aerobatics last week in the back seat of all things a CUB!
      The old boy that was flying has somewhere near a billion hours in it and can
      make it dance a jig if he wanted to.  We did some STEEP turns and a roll but
      the best were some wingovers that he held off so long on they were a half a
      breath away from a hammerhead stall.(Glance out the roof and all I saw was
      upside down horizon!)  We went non-stop for about thirty minutes until yours
      truly looked out the open door down at the water (we were over the Bartletts
      Ferry dam backwaters outside of Columbus, Ga.) while doing a really steep
      turn. The picture of the world rotated one way and my stomach the other...I
      didn't toss my cookies but I was sure glad to see the horizon back like it's
      suppose to be! That was a week ago and I still look like the Cheshire Cat.
      Must have been great.
      
      Jeremy Casey  jrcasey@mindspring
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
Subject: 
Photo Processors
      
      A while back someone identified a photo processor who provided film and
      returned digital images.  I wasn't able to find it in a search of the Kolb
      archives.  It wasn't Kodak the service was good.  I think the processor was
      in the south.  I need more pictures for the documentation of my MarkIII build.
      
      Thanks 
      Ron
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
Drum Brakes
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
      
      A while back I reported that my FF"s drum brakes had suddenly
      (apparently) started to drag at one point each revolution.  Got some
      advice as to things to check for at disassembly.  Thanks.  Put the axles
      up on blocks and found that both wheels were "wobbling".  Thus when
      caring weight the plane of the drum was cocking relative to the brake
      shoe assembly.  Both axle nuts were too loose by 2/3 rds of a turn.
      This sure pointed out to me how important it is to occasionally block up
      the axles and check the wheels for looseness.  I did pull the wheels and
      inspect the bearings, drums, and shoes.  All were fine. I reassembled,
      adjusted the breaks and went flying.  Breaks are working fine (at least
      for now).  Chris Wayland  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
Russell Savage <rsavage(at)freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: 
Re: Photo Processors
      
      On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Ron Hoyt wrote:
      
      > A while back someone identified a photo processor who provided film and
      > returned digital images.  I wasn't able to find it in a search of the Kolb
      > archives.  It wasn't Kodak the service was good.  I think the processor was
      > in the south.  I need more pictures for the documentation of my MarkIII build.
      > 
      > Thanks 
      > Ron
      > -
      
      Kolb Friends,
      In Columbus Ohio there is a 1 hour lab that will process film  and save
      your images on a disk or cd. They also sell film. 
      It is :
      
      Cord Camera
      htt://www.cordcamera.com
      1-800-944-2673
      
      
      Russ Savage
      Columbus, Ohio
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wally Hofmann" <whofmann(at)eudoramail.com>
Subject: 
wing loading on a Turkey Buzzard
      
      
      I was out walking the dogs in the desert late yesterday and watched some Turkey
      Buzzards
      dance around the blustery air teasing my young Border Collie.  These birds have
      got
      to be the ultimate ultra light.
      
      Does anyone know what their wing loading is ?  Do they know how to stall?
      ---
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Wally Hofmann
      FireFly in Progress
      Wickenburg, Arizona
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      
      Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
Mark Swihart <mswihart(at)tcsn.net>
Subject: 
Covering: Lessons Learned
      
      
      Started the covering the TwinStar last weekend... And ran 
      into a snag. My partner and I used an expoxy primer & catalyst 
      that was left over from a another project. We covered the front 
      parts to the horizontal stab and when I started on a small 
      piece, the trim tab I discovered specks of green primer 
      mixing in with the poly tack as I started my first edge
      wrap. Joy (our most excellently, tubular, cool, neat-o, swell, 
      etc ..stits trained instructor) put a halt to the work going on 
      and ask my partner and I what primer we used. She took a rag with 
      some MEK and wiped the full rib on one the wings and to our horror 
      it stripped the paint right off the surface. 
      It turns out there is a designation number for the primer and the 
      catalyst and they did not match the stits numbers required for the 
      covering process. 
       Cutting corners especially this one cost us a weekend plus the 
      time it will take to re-prep all of surfaces before we can continue
      covering the T/S.
      
      -Mark-
      
      West Coast Fly-In '98  May 1-3
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/ul/pruaflyin.htm>
      TwinStar Page
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/kolb.htm>
      Paso Robles Ultralight Association
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/ul/prua.htm>
      AOL AIM Screen Name: SwihartMrk
      Bradley, California 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       via SMTP by pop-proxy02.primenet.com, id smtpd002561; Wed Apr  8 08:56:35 1998
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
swultra <swultra(at)primenet.com>
Subject: 
test
      
      I thought i would try to post a message test!!!!!!!!!steve
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
Subject: 
Re: Photo Processors
      
      >Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:28:46 -0500
      >To: jrjung(at)execpc.com
      >From: Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
      >Subject: Re: Photo Processors
      >In-Reply-To: <352B8F20.8E9(at)execpc.com>
      >References: <3.0.5.32.19980408093317.009f16d0(at)aurora.gd-is.com>
      >
      >>Ron,
      >>   I don't know about the south, but try 
      >>http://www.filmworks.com/photofinishing.htm
      >>for Seattle Filmworks. 
      >>John Jung
      >>
      >This looks like the service i was remembering.  Thanks
      >Ron
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WillU <WillU(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Photo Processors
      
      Ron
      Seattle Film Works is one photo processor @
      http://www.filmworks.com
      I used them a couple of times but were too expensive and took too long to mail
      me the prints.  I think Kmart also offers digital photo processing.
      
      
      << A while back someone identified a photo processor who provided film and
       returned digital images.  I wasn't able to find it in a search of the Kolb
       archives.  It wasn't Kodak the service was good.  I think the processor was
       in the south.  I need more pictures for the documentation of my MarkIII
      build.
        >>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: wing loading on a Turkey Buzzard
      
      estimated Turkey buzzard specs:
      Span  26"=~2'
      chord    ~.5'
      wing area  ~1 square foot
      weight ~ 8-12  pounds (a real guess there, bigger then a chicken, 
      smaller then a turkey)
      wing area 8 to 12 pounds per square foot
      Aspect ratio  ~4
      
      Seems to me they use a full stall landing technique, although they are 
      flaping their wings and have a real slick variable geometry planform and 
      variable chamber wing.  I have seen the feathers on the upper back side 
      of the wings flip up so they are getting some separated flow back there.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: 
RE: Landing Gear
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
      
      GEoR38, I'm disappointed, you didn't slam me for bending the gear on you
      tennie FS
      
      
      FRANK J. MARINO
      Chief Loadmaster 773 AS
      
      > ----------
      > From:         GeoR38[SMTP:GeoR38(at)aol.com]
      > Sent:         Tuesday, March 24, 1998 11:03 PM
      > To:         hawk36(at)mindspring.com; SPECTRUMINTERNATIONAL(at)classic.msn.com
      > Cc:         kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject:         Re: Landing Gear
      > 
      > writes:
      > 
      > << Third, my old gear legs have been proven through user
      >  testing for close to 2000 on my Firestar and MK III, to get the job
      > done
      >  and keep on doing it.
      >  
      >  Again, this is my own personal opinion(s).  It works for me.
      >  
      >  john hauck
      >  Titus, Alabama (near Montgomery, but not close enough for the city
      > folks to
      >  bother me). >>
      > John is there any way I could buy a set of gear legs for my Firestar
      > KX made
      > like you had them made from the guy that made them for you? It sounds
      > like you
      > did it the "right" way or at least the experimental way and I would be
      > more
      > than willing to put some money up
      > front............................GeoR38...(after 5 leg sets)
      > -
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Photo Processors
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
      
      MOST 1-Hour processors will provide this service.   It is no big deal
      these days.
      
      Ron Carroll
      Original Firestar
      Independence, OR
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Russell Savage <rsavage(at)freenet.columbus.oh.us>
      Date: Wednesday April 08 1998 8:00 AM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Photo Processors
      
      
      >On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Ron Hoyt wrote:
      >
      >> A while back someone identified a photo processor who provided film
      and
      >> returned digital images.  I wasn't able to find it in a search of
      the Kolb
      >> archives.  It wasn't Kodak the service was good.  I think the
      processor was
      >> in the south.  I need more pictures for the documentation of my
      MarkIII build.
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >> Ron
      >> -
      >
      >Kolb Friends,
      >In Columbus Ohio there is a 1 hour lab that will process film  and
      save
      >your images on a disk or cd. They also sell film.
      >It is :
      >
      >Cord Camera
      >htt://www.cordcamera.com
      >1-800-944-2673
      >
      >
      >Russ Savage
      >Columbus, Ohio
      >
      >
      >-
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Howard G. Penny" <penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se>
Subject: 
RE: SlingShot for sale
Date: 
Apr 08, 1998
      
      ARRRGGGGG!!!!!!  Don't do it.  Ya need something to fly while your
      building for those times you need a break.  It also helps to keep your
      polish.  Also if you wait until closer to the RV8 completion to sell you
      will have that last bit of the 35 - 45k needed to do it nice.
      
      I do applaud your choice of what to build.  I was at RV two weeks ago
      and looked around at the efficient facility.  Unfortunately the
      continuos rain had made their field too soft to fly.  But I did get a
      little hanger time in N58RV.  The training wheel version was just
      painted getting ready for Sun'N Fun.
      
      I haven't had any thing to do on my SlingShot for a while due to using
      most of my liquid cash having gone into a house.  This too will pass.  I
      hope to building again this summer.
      
      Howard G. Penny           EAA # 168877
      Raleigh, NC                    Kolb SlingShot # SS-007 N96969 res.
      penny(at)rtp.ericsson.se   Sonerai IILS # 0010
      http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hpenny
      /* --------------------------------------------------------- */
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From:        Russell Duffy [SMTP:rad(at)pen.net]
      Sent:        Tuesday, April 07, 1998 3:20 PM
      To:        Kolb list
      Subject: Kolb-List:        SlingShot for sale
      
      Hi everyone,
      
      It's official, I've decided to sell my SlingShot.  I expect to have the
      restricted time flown off by about the end of this month (weather
      permitting),
      so it would be ready to go anytime after that.  I have no idea what it's
      worth,
      but I hope to get about what I've got in it ($15k).  Pictures and flight
      logs
      are on my web page.  If you know anyone that's interested, please send
      them my
      way.
      
      Thanks,
      Russell Duffy
      SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
      rad(at)pen.net
      http://www.pen.net/~rad/
      850-936-8791 (home)
      
      
      PS- I took my first RV ride today in my old RV-6 project aircraft, and
      decided
      that I need to devote my full attention to finishing my RV-8A.  I just
      don't
      have the time and money to build and own at the same time.  After
      today's
      flight, I'm more convinced than ever that the RV-8A is the plane I
      really want
      to fly.  We saw a max speed of 185 mph at 1000 ft, played fighter pilot
      in the
      pattern, and did a couple of rolls (not in the pattern).  The rolls were
      my
      first aerobatics.  He did one, then I did the next.  Now if I could just
      get
      this stupid grin off my face :-))))))
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
                (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA152
From: 
LLMoore(at)tapnet.net (Lauren L. Moore)
Subject: 
differences..
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
      
      
      Can one of you Kolbers tell me "what is the difference in design and C/G
      placement between the Firestar and the Firestar II?" The reason for my
      asking is " Why couldn't the seating accomodation for a large person be
      moved aft slightly to allow more room for long legs etc?"  If the
      Firestar 2 seater ( which is tandem seating if I'm not mistaken) is of
      the same basic design as the firestar single seat,  then it wouldn't be
      a major problem.  Can someone elaborate on this?  thanks    Larry in
      Sussex
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
Can one of you Kolbers tell me
      "what is the
      difference in design and C/G placement between the Firestar and the
      Firestar
      II?" The reason for my asking is " Why couldn't the seating
      accomodation for a large person be moved aft slightly to allow more room
      for
      long legs etc?"  If the Firestar 2 seater ( which is tandem
      seating if
      I'm not mistaken) is of the same basic design as the firestar single
      seat, 
      then it wouldn't be a major problem.  Can someone elaborate on
      this? 
      thanks    Larry in Sussex 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: differences...
      
      The simple generic answer would be that, like most two-seat tandems, the
      passenger seat is ON the design CG (so that the CG stays same with
      or without a passenger).  So, changing either passenger or pilot seat
      position generally is messing with mother nature, i.e. not nice.  For
      example, you could only move the front seat aft if you moved the rear
      "seat" forward.  Conversely, you could only move the rear seat aft if
      you moved the front seat forward.  More generally, you can do whatever
      you want to the useful load so long as you stay within printed design
      CG limits (as well as within gross weight) for every single flight, 
      no ifs ands or buts. (yes, 'buts', but i know what you're thinkin)  
      Hope this helps.
      -Ben Ransom
      
      On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Lauren L. Moore wrote:
      > Can one of you Kolbers tell me "what is the difference in design and C/G
      > placement between the Firestar and the Firestar II?" The reason for my
      > asking is " Why couldn't the seating accomodation for a large person be
      > moved aft slightly to allow more room for long legs etc?"  If the
      > Firestar 2 seater ( which is tandem seating if I'm not mistaken) is of
      > the same basic design as the firestar single seat,  then it wouldn't be
      > a major problem.  Can someone elaborate on this?  thanks    Larry in
      > Sussex
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: differences..
      
      Larry,
         Basically, you are right. The two planes have the same limits. I can
      think of just two potential problems with moving the seat back in a
      Firestar II. One is that it won't go more than an inch or two without
      giving up the rear seat. To move further aft, the front of the rear seat
      support would have to be moved or removed. Check with Dennis to see it
      that creates a structural problem or not. Second, if you did move it
      back, the minimum pilot weight would go up. I did a simulation of this
      for my Firestar II. My current minimum pilot weight for 10 gallons of
      fuel and no passenger is 157 pounds. If the seat were 5 inches farther
      aft, the minimum pilot weight would go up to 190. As long as the real
      tall pilot was not too light and he didn't let lighter pilots fly his
      plane, it would stay within the CG limits. One more thing: If a
      passenger were carried, the minimum pilot weight goes down. The
      passenger actually helps bring the CG forward from the aft limit. Let me
      know if you would like to have a copy of my EXCEL Firestar program, so
      that you can do the what-if's yourself.
         One question for you. Where is Sussex? New Jersey?
      John Jung
      ex-loadmaster
      
      Lauren L. Moore wrote:
      > 
      > Can one of you Kolbers tell me "what is the difference in design and
      > C/G placement between the Firestar and the Firestar II?" The reason
      > for my asking is " Why couldn't the seating accomodation for a large
      > person be moved aft slightly to allow more room for long legs etc?"
      > If the Firestar 2 seater ( which is tandem seating if I'm not
      > mistaken) is of the same basic design as the firestar single seat,
      > then it wouldn't be a major problem. Can someone elaborate on this?
      > thanks Larry in Sussex
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: differences..
      
      Let me correct myself. The two planes have the same CG limits. They do
      not have the same weight limits. (Firestar and Firestar II)
      
      John Jung wrote:
      >  The two planes have the same limits.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
Subject: 
Re: differences..
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      Larry.......The only way you will prove it to yourself that it is or is
      not feasible and safe to move the single pilot seat back towards the
      passenger area  is to run a weight and balance with you in the FS II
      where you want to sit. The pilot seat in the FSII does have provision for
      some limited movement forward or back. You should be able to fit within
      the CG limits unless you are very, very tall. Ballast on the alum floor
      pan under your legs  is an option and may be neccessary.    Ray Lujon 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: differences...
      
      Sorry everybody, i got carried away on my post to this.  I made it
      sound okay to move seat cg and this is obviously wrong in general.  
      That is, moving the pilot and passenger seats closer together or 
      further apart works only if both seats are always filled.  
      
      Sorry about the wasted bandwidth.
      -Ben Ransom
      
      ---------- 
      WRONG:
      >example, you could only move the front seat aft if you moved the rear
      >"seat" forward.  Conversely, you could only move the rear seat aft if
      >you moved the front seat forward.  More generally, you can do whatever
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: differences..
      
      HShack wrote:
      > 
      > Hi, John.  I,m a Newbie about to take my lessons and will be looking for
      > a plane.  I should be at 250 pounds by the time I'm ready to buy; do you think
      > the FS 1 would be a good choice for me?
      > I can see in the specs. that they don't have the same weight limits
      > but can you tell me why if you have installed the extra ribs?  I understand
      > they are the same plane otherwise.
      > Shack
      > SC
         My original Firestar with a 377 could handle that weight from a power
      standpoint, but it would be over gross weight. So would a Firestar I.
      You could build a Firestar II without the second seat and have 725#
      gross weight. The extra ribs help with wing loading as well as extra
      speed, and they don't add much weight.
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
skip staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net>
Subject: 
Re: wing loading on a Turkey Buzzard
      
      >
      >I was out walking the dogs in the desert late yesterday and watched some
      Turkey Buzzards
      >dance around the blustery air teasing my young Border Collie.  These birds
      have got
      >to be the ultimate ultra light.
      >
      >Does anyone know what their wing loading is ?  Do they know how to stall?
      
      Wally,
      
      We have a lot of them here in Florida and they are MAGNIFICENT flying
      machines.  They aren't to smart though as I found out one day.  I was
      flying a Cassutt (F-1 racer) when a buzzard decided to commit suicide by
      diving into the plane.  I you're ever coming close to one, they get away by
      folding their wings and diving.  Unfortunately, they evidently do that even
      if you're under them.  I don't know how familiar you are with a Cassutt,
      but when a buzzard is about to run into you his wingspan is damn near as
      long as the Cassutt's (or at least it seems as such. :)
      
      This particular bird looked as if it would hit the canopy and I thought
      that I was going to be in deep trouble.  In fact, he went through the prop.
       Lots of blood and guts on the canopy and a big chunk was taken out of the
      prop.  What was left of him (or her) went on to tear up my left wheel pant.
       Fortunately, a uneventful landing was accomplished, although the seat
      cushion probably still has a brown stain on it. :)
      
      Regards,
      Skip
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
Subject: 
Kolb seat position
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      I agree with Ben=do not  do anything to change  your c/g.
      However, here's another idea you might want to think about.
      Instead of moving your pilot's seat back, how about moving you rudder
      pedals forward?
      If you move your seat back, you will probably have to do some welding on
      the chromology steel cage, right where there's a lot of stress. The
      weight of your butt etc.  If you're an FAA cert. welder, or know one 
      great! But if your' re like the rest of us, I wouldn't mess with the
      welding.
      If you extend the rudder pedals/ bracket forward, and still want to weld
      there's probably not much stress up there except for cable tension to the
      rudders. Also aircraft quality pop rivets can be used. This is just
      another way to approach  your problem. Might work for you, might not.
      
      F.Y.I.  if your'e going to have different pilots/ passengers in your
      plane, you might want to make up a max./min. weight chart. That way
      you'll always know if your'e within your C/G  and max weight limits.
      
      My 2-cents worth
      Bob Doebler
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
Subject: 
Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      Well, I may have "stp'd" tonight. I needed to take the aluminum gear legs
      out of their sockets (in the cage) on my Twinstar. The legs are the
      1.125" od and have 2 aluminum sleeves to bring the od to 1.375" to fit
      the id of the socket.
      
      The right leg came out with both sleeves attached but the left leg came
      out leaving the outer sleeve in the socket. I fab'd-up a tool to slide up
      and hook on the far end of the sleeve but I've wailed on it pretty good
      with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and out about
      1/8". 
      
      Any ideas???
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 09, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
      
      >Well, I may have "stp'd" tonight. I needed to take the aluminum gear legs
      >with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and out about
      >1/8". 
      >
      >Any ideas???
      
      
      Hey Mick:
      
      Get a bigger hammer, 8oz ball peen (baby hammer).
      
      Make a tool that will grasp both edges inside top.  Keep at it, it will
      come outta there.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
      
      >Well, I may have "stp'd" tonight. I needed to take the aluminum gear legs
      >out of their sockets (in the cage) on my Twinstar. The legs are the
      >1.125" od and have 2 aluminum sleeves to bring the od to 1.375" to fit
      >the id of the socket.
      >
      >The right leg came out with both sleeves attached but the left leg came
      >out leaving the outer sleeve in the socket. I fab'd-up a tool to slide up
      >and hook on the far end of the sleeve but I've wailed on it pretty good
      >with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and out about
      >1/8". 
      >
      >Any ideas???
      >
      >-Mick Fine
      >Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      >
              
              This might be worth a try: Aluminum expands and contracts more than
      steel, if you can come up with a way to chill the aluminum sleeve, even if
      it means chilling the whole sleeve/socket assembly, it should shrink at a
      higer rate than the steel, and might increase the clearance just enough.
              Plan two, just had this brainstorm sitting here: Is the top end of
      the sleeve sealed up? If it is, you know how you remove a pilot bearing out
      of the end of a crankshaft, pack the hole with grease and drive in the
      output shaft until the hydraulic pressure pops the bearing out? Same deal.
              I know the top end of the MKIII sleeve is not sealed up, but I can't
      remember about the Twinstar.
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420p (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
Subject: 
Re: cables
      
      
      <<  Just to expand in Mr. Poops' thought:  I worry about those teeny tiny set
       screws that hold the throttle cable and the choke cable into that U shaped
       fitting that goes over the flat part of the lever.  I have probably lost half
       a dozen of the allen keys that come with the fitting.  Anyway I went to the
       local bike shop and got a thing that looks like a brass barel with a screw on
       one end.  The barrel is drilled and the cable goes through it, you tighten
       down on the screw and it holds the cable.  I put these on both the throttle
       and the choke on the downstream side..  That way if the little set screw in
       the fitting lets go the cable wont let go altogether and I'll still have some
       controll.  A kind of redundant keeper.   It would really be annoying to have
       to do a forced landing with a perfectly good engine that wouldn't do more
      idle
       because the cable let go. >>
      One of my biggest worrys also....I think I'll take you up on your idea about
      the screwed barrel fitting ......... my throttle had the allen stock break off
      the last time I tightened the setscrew and the piece is still in there....not
      allowing checking.....scary!
                                                                            GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: differences..
      
      John,
      
      Can I have a copy of your excel firestar program?  Please!
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Passed inspection.
      
      Group,
         Well the FAA inspector just left and I have a Special Airworthiness
      Certificate and a temporary Repairmans Certificate. After 10 months and
      437 hours, my Firestar II is ready to fly. And the weather is good too.
      I might just have to trailer it to the airport today.
      John Jung
      Firestar II N6163J
      SE Wisconsin
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
wood <wood(at)mail.wincom.net>
Subject: 
Re: differences..
      
      >Can one of you Kolbers tell me "what is the difference in design and C/G
      placement between the Firestar and the Firestar II?" The reason for my
      asking is " Why couldn't the seating accomodation for a large person be
      moved aft slightly to allow more room for long legs etc?"  If the Firestar 2
      seater ( which is tandem seating if I'm not mistaken) is of the same basic
      design as the firestar single seat,  then it wouldn't be a major problem.
      Can someone elaborate on this?  thanks    Larry in Sussex 
      >
      
      
         Didn't we hash this cg thing out before and the conclusion was that these
      Kolbs are usually tail heavy and moving back would worsen the condition. If
      you have to modify the frame to move back why not change the frame forward
      and keep the cg farther forward?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
CUBTLC(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
Subject: 
Firefly Wheels
      
      
      Does someone have a recommendation on larger wheels for the Firefly, but still
      be under 254 lbs.?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WVarnes <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
Subject: 
Personal Web pages
      
      Ref. John Jung and Ben Ransom,
      
      Visited both of your web pages the other day.  Enjoyed it immensely.  Great
      job!
      
      John, the map is really getting full.  If you can find room, put me on there.
      Would it be possible to display the USA map showing the states, then click
      onto a state map,which would allow more room for names?
      
      Ben, I liked looking at your pictures showing your mods and flying adventures.
      Especially liked the one where you are straffing the sprinkler system to wash
      off your undercarriage.  Did you get wet?
      
      Don't know how you guys find enough time to build planes, fly and play with
      computers.  (Do you also have a job and families too?)  It takes me almost an
      hour a day just to read all the Kolb e-mail.  Keep up the good work.
      
      Bill Varnes
      Original FireStar
      Audubon, NJ
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
Subject: 
Spring has sprung
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      Went flying today, first time this year. A little apprehensive after a 3
      month lay off. All went well. Went through 5 gallons and then realized I
      failed to bring extra fuel.Hopped in the Ford Ranger to get more, drove 1
      mile, stopped at a 4 way stop,  waiting for the cross traffic, noticed a
      saturn on my left about to enter the intersection at a high rate of speed
      obviously not even slowing down for the stop sign. The oncoming traffic,
      a large van pulled out into the intersection and was hit just behind dead
      center,  just enough to cause him to spin his rear end into me. First
      experience with the air bag , they work. All 6 people in the Saturn
      injured. I am fine Needless to say, the flying for the day was over.
      Happy I was not towing the FSII. Relied on my brother-in-law to haul the
      plane back to my garage. Outside the Minot Air Force Base there is a sign
      that reads, "Airman, you are about to enter the most dangerous space in
      the world, a public highway." How true. Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Spring has sprung
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      
       Relied on my brother-in-law to haul the plane back to 
      >my garage. 
      This should read "son-in-law". Sorry Dan.  I'm all shook up.  Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Spring has sprung
      
      Hay Ray,
      
      Excellent visual scanning for Traffic... too bad you got caught by the 
      aftermath.  Glad to hear your ok.  6 people in a saturn?  somebody did 
      not have a seat belt on in that car.  Or was that in the van.  Hope your 
      truck isnt down for too long.
      
      Christopher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
wood <wood(at)mail.wincom.net>
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
      
      >
      >The right leg came out with both sleeves attached but the left leg came
      >out leaving the outer sleeve in the socket. I fab'd-up a tool to slide up
      >and hook on the far end of the sleeve but I've wailed on it pretty good
      >with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and out about
      >1/8". 
      >
      \
      
      
      Hey I had the same thing last year. I ended taking a pipe plug of sufficient
      dia.to fit in the sleeve and ground grooves down the side to make a tap.If
      you have a proper pipe tap ignore that step.Next drill and tap a hole
      through the end of the plug,lets say about 3/8. Thread a piece of ready rod
      into the plug and lock it in position with a nut.Now force the pipe plug
      into the sleeve in the air frame as far and as tight as you can.The next
      real hard part if finding a good chunk of steel in the 2 or more pound range
      bore a hole through this and slide it onto the ready rod.Complete your
      gadget with a nut and a few big washers on the end and you now have your own
      b o tool (backing out tool).Or just wimp out and go buy a dent puller at an
      auto shop and make an adapter to fit the pipe plug.Sliding the weight down
      the ready rod will give a good jerk on the liner as long as the pipe plug
      stays in the sleeve. If you get it out a bit you may be able to smash the
      sleeve with a hammer and punch to collapse it and reduce the od  so it will
      come out.When you put the new one back in file out inside the frame tube
      where the cage is welded to the tube. You will probably notice some of the
      tube is collapsed where the weld bead is.If it goes in hard it will come out
      hard.I hope you understand my instructions.
      
      
         Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 10, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
First Flight
      
      Group,
         Well I did it!  After getting my Firestar II signed off this morning,
      I took it to the airport and flew it. It now has 4 landings and 0.4
      hours and the flights were "uneventfull". It flys a lot like the
      original Firestar except the stall is about 40 mph, if the airspeed is
      correct. It handles very well and needs no trim that I could detect. The
      biggest problem, if it could be called a problem, is that the wheels
      vibrate after takeoff until they stop spinning. I'll just go through my
      file on brakes, a see what you guys were saying about that problem. For
      those of you that are still building, hang in there, it's worth it.
      John Jung
      Firestar II N6163J
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM02SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27034)
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
John Jung
      
      Hi John:  Congratulations on your first flight.  That must be a Great!!!
      feeling after all the time, effort, and expense.  Starting to feel like
      I've been working on mine for eternity.  (Just 18 mo., but still-----)  
      With luck and patience, just 3 or 4 mo. to go.
      
      I've noticed that vibration in the wheels of  Cessnas, too.  Seems that if
      they shake that hard when you leave the ground, they must be shaking that
      hard Before you leave the ground as well.  Can't be doing the bearings and
      all too much good.  I wonder if it would be possible to balance them??  Any
      ideas??   Also -- for my 6 cents worth, I put the Matco disk brakes w/ heel
      pedals on my Mk III, and could NOT line those wheels up.  They wobbled all
      over.  Wound up sending them back to Utah, where they found that the
      sub-contractor who assembled them pressed the bearings in crooked.  They've
      now (a year ago) added another inspection station on their assembly line. 
      So, if anyone's got "wobbly wheels" and disk brakes -----
      Big Lar.            Have fun, John.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Cutting & Trimming Cable
      
      To All,
      
      Those of you who have a Dremel or similar tools with the abrasive cutt off
      wheels can use them to slice cable quickly and evenly.  Wrapping first with
      masking tape will locate the cutting point exactly and insure that the wire
      will not be frayed while being cut. You can also trim the ends of the cable
      very close to the nicopress joint after swagging (sp?) so that you are not
      liable to puncture yourself with the raw cable ends.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Personal messages
      
      
      << You're absolutely right, Ron. Building airplanes is very serious,
       stressful work. That's why I "play" at this stuff (UL's & Experimentals)
       in my 'free time'.
       
       Sorry to have squeezed your bandwidth. My apologies to you and the group
       for starting the thread about my occupation (BTW, what got posted to the
       list was small compared to what went on privately). I've been trying to
       spend more time with the plane and less on the computer anyway.
       
       
       -Mick Fine >>
      no apologies necessary, Mick, actually your comments are almost the best ones,
      as it appears that you may even still have a real personality!.  For sterility
      , I read the phone book and the dictionary!............................My 2
      sents sic ....GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Grief...?
      
      
      << One other aspect of pre-assembled things such as H-sections.  It
       does not allow the possibility that cages may differ a teeny bit.
       What if one plane needs it's H-section mated 1/16" further forward
       or backward?  This would therefore require matching pre-H-sectioned
       spars and fuselage tubes to cages (maybe).  The cost of Kolb 
       pre-assembling some things might be higher than we first guess.  
       
       I'm just glad they do all the welding.
                                      
       - Ben Ransom                    >>
      HEAR! HEAR!   BEN!....I understand both points of view, but I must throw in
      with you as I reflect that building my Firestar "by george!" was one of the
      most Relaxing and gratifying things I have ever done in my adult
      life....putting my knowledge where my life is...so to speak!  I have built
      100s of models as a kid and have built plants in my vocation but building my
      own plane...which if I do it Correctly....can bring me safely back to Earth,
      .....Wow....It is still a testimony of faith in more than just God, namely in
      yourself and in your own understanding of what makes the world go
      round!....You don't have the same feeling about "buying" a new
      car.......Besides it is good be able to inspect the welds on the H sections
      before installing this very important member into the tube....never to be seen
      again!......................GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Home made trailer
      
      Hey gang,
        Yesterday, I got a look at a really nice home made enclosed trailer
      that was built for a Firestar. It was built by John Bruzan, of Mt.
      Prospect IL  (near chicago). John is a member of this list and he also
      built a Firestar that is almost ready to fly. If those of you that have
      an interest in building a trailer would encourage John, to come out of
      "lurking", and share some information on his trailer, he might do it. I
      know that his trailer cost him a fraction of what I spent on a Timber
      Wolf trailer and his does the same job. 
         So how about it, John? Tell us about your trailer. Nice looking plane
      too.
      John Jung
      Firestar II N6163J 0.4 hrs
      Original Firestar (no longer needed)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
      
      Mick,
      
      You may have got it out by now but if you haven't, put some oil in the
      bolt hole of the upper part of the gear leg tube. Clamp hard on the part
      that is out of the socket with a large vise grip, then hammer with the
      largest hammer you can find. It will come out. When you put in your new
      gear legs, grease them up and they will come out easier if you need to
      turn them over after a few rough landings.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      >Well, I may have "stp'd" tonight. I needed to take the aluminum gear 
      >legs out of their sockets (in the cage) on my Twinstar. The legs are 
      >the 1.125" od and have 2 aluminum sleeves to bring the od to 1.375" to 
      >fit the id of the socket.
      >
      >The right leg came out with both sleeves attached but the left leg 
      >came out leaving the outer sleeve in the socket. I fab'd-up a tool to 
      >slide up and hook on the far end of the sleeve but I've wailed on it 
      >pretty good with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and 
      >out about 1/8". 
      >
      >Any ideas???
      >
      >-Mick Fine
      >Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      >Tulsa, Oklahoma
      >http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      >mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: First Flight
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
      
      John,
      
      How fun and a job well done!  Enjoy .......
      
      Ralph
      
      
      >Group,
      >   Well I did it!  After getting my Firestar II signed off this 
      >morning,
      >I took it to the airport and flew it. It now has 4 landings and 0.4
      >hours and the flights were "uneventfull". It flys a lot like the
      >original Firestar except the stall is about 40 mph, if the airspeed is
      >correct. It handles very well and needs no trim that I could detect. 
      >The
      >biggest problem, if it could be called a problem, is that the wheels
      >vibrate after takeoff until they stop spinning. I'll just go through 
      >my
      >file on brakes, a see what you guys were saying about that problem. 
      >For
      >those of you that are still building, hang in there, it's worth it.
      >John Jung
      >Firestar II N6163J
      >-
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Cutting & Trimming Cable
      
      >will not be frayed while being cut. You can also trim the ends of the cable
      >very close to the nicopress joint after swagging (sp?) so that you are not
      >liable to puncture yourself with the raw cable ends.
      
      
      Hello everybody:
      
      Just a friendly reminder:  Be careful not to cut the trailing end of the
      cable to close to the nicropress fitting.  Should leave about a quarter to
      3/8 in. tail.  The maintenance reg states exactly, and there is a reason
      for this.  If  we cut snug to the fitting, or as Eiper Quicksilver  does
      (puts the trailing end inside the fitting), then we have put a shear force
      on the cable at that spot, similar to a shear or scissor.  May never load
      the system enough to cause a problem, but why take a chance.
      
      john
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      The sleeve is out, finally!! Took me til nearly midnight last night 'tho.
      Thanks to all for the advice and moral support! The tool I made was
      pretty crude but worked.
      
      It looks like the left sleeve didn't have as even a coat of grease as the
      right one did. As I was beating the snot out of it, I noticed something
      was putting a gouge in the sleeve about .030 wide X .010 deep on the
      bottom of the diameter. Now that I can look into the socket, there's a
      small piece of 'scale' on the id about an inch from the end. It doesn't
      look like corrosion but if it was from welding, it should have been there
      when the sleeve was installed, trouble is, I can't see an old (dull)
      gouge in the sleeve, what's left of it.
      
      This was an ordeal I don't EVER want to repeat. Before I reinstall, I
      plan to take a brake cylinder hone to the socket (just to get a smooth
      finish - not to enlarge the id). Whadaya think? Also, I don't remember
      anything in the manual about greasing the od of the outer sleeve but it
      seems like a must to me now! From the responses, stuck sleeves sound
      fairly common. Is a more liberal use of axle grease the best way to
      prevent a repeat?
      
      Thanx again!
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Personal Web pages
      
      >Ref. John Jung and Ben Ransom,
      >
      >Visited both of your web pages the other day.  Enjoyed it immensely.  Great
      >job!
      >
      >John, the map is really getting full.  If you can find room, put me on there.
      >Would it be possible to display the USA map showing the states, then click
      >onto a state map,which would allow more room for names?
      >
      >Ben, I liked looking at your pictures showing your mods and flying
      adventures.
      >Especially liked the one where you are straffing the sprinkler system to wash
      >off your undercarriage.  Did you get wet?
      
      Bill, Thanks! Glad you liked the photos.  The plane got wet, mostly
      just the lower half tho' and I got a few sprinkles on me.  At that 
      time I still had just the standard KXP skinny windscreen without side
      panels.  I've still not flown thru rain enf to know what that's 
      really like.
      -Ben Ransom
      
      >Don't know how you guys find enough time to build planes, fly and play with
      >computers.  (Do you also have a job and families too?)  It takes me almost an
      >hour a day just to read all the Kolb e-mail.  Keep up the good work.
      >
      >Bill Varnes
      >Original FireStar
      >Audubon, NJ
      >-
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
wood <wood(at)mail.wincom.net>
Subject: 
Re: Cutting & Trimming Cable
      
      . You can also trim the ends of the cable
      >very close to the nicopress joint after swagging (sp?) so that you are not
      >liable to puncture yourself with the raw cable ends.
      >
        You 're scaring me on this one.If you were to slip just a tiny bit and
      nick one of the strands of the cable you may wish you didn't use your
      dremel. The tape idea is good and is part of the proper way to cut cable.
      Wrap your cable where you want to cut with the tape.Mark your cut line on
      the tape and give it a good whack with a hammer and chisel.This will cut
      clean and quick if you use a sharp chisel.If you don't like the cable ends a
      small dab of 5 min. epoxy should take care of any stray strands.
      
        Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
wood <wood(at)mail.wincom.net>
Subject: 
Re: First Flight
      
      >biggest problem, if it could be called a problem, is that the wheels
      >vibrate after takeoff until they stop spinning. I'll just go through my
      >file on brakes, a see what you guys were saying about that problem. 
      
         I thought I had the same problem but it ended up that some of my takeoffs
      were a bit vigourous and I would bounce the tailwheel on take off. This
      caused the whole airframe to shake wildly. I was convinced my wheels were
      way out of balance untill I had a friend watch as we took off and he saw me
      smack the tail wheel. Just a thought,it may help.
         Congratulations on the first flight. No one else can really understand
      the feelings of elation after first flight of an aircraft you built
      yourself.Savour the  feelings as there is no way to really share them.
      
      
       Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 11, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Cutting & Trimming Cable
       <1.5.4.32.19980411075638.0066fe28(at)dfw.net>
      
      
      >This is also at odds with reasoning.....cables are in 
      >tension....how, then, does one load a cable for shear?
      
      
      I agree with you, the cable is in tension.  I'm not worried about that.
      What I am worried about is the part at the nicropress sleeve.  When the
      sleeve is compressed, if the end of the cable is flush or inside the
      sleeve, it will have a shearing effect on the other cable it is compressed
      against.  It also insures that you are getting all the grip you paid for.
      
      I don't have a copy of the manual, nor can I recite the number, but I have
      seen and read this in several places.  One other tip:  Always use two
      sleeves for anything smaller than 1/8 in cable.  I did some unsophisticated
      pull test with 3/32 in cable connections, single and double.  The results
      were the cable would break right at the second sleeve from the thimble on a
      double, and would pull thru before it would break on the single.
      
      If I haven't explained this clearly (it is a lot easier to demontrate) I
      will be glad to try again.
      
      I have also used the masking tape and sharp cold chisel method of cutting
      cable.  I have a 5X5 in block of aluminum I use to cut it on.  Works
      cleanly every time.
      
      We use nicropress connections on a critical area of our airplanes, the
      elevator, especially the up elevator cable.  Making these connections are
      not "Murphy proof".  On my first airplane I did all the sleeve squeezes 90
      degrees from the way they should have been oriented in the tool.  None of
      the connections would have held.  My brother Jim caught my mistake on his
      first visit after I started construction of the Ultrastar.  It pas to let
      other knowledgeable people look at your work.  At least I was consistant,
      they were all the same and all wrong.
      
      I like to see a little bit of tail sticking out of the sleeve, then I will
      know during preflight if my connections are still good.
      
      john
      
      I found loose rivets in the lower rudder hinge on the bottom near the
      rudder horn, during my preflight today.  These will have to be replaced
      before my flight to Lakeland.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Digital Cameras, Aerial Photos, My Advice...
      
      
      << For some background, I'm definitely "paperwork organization challenged."
       I have a database of about 65,000 email messages that I carry with me on
       my laptop.  I can locate any of them, going back a year or two, with
       little effort (I found last year's lexan message in 90 seconds in a
       hotel in Springfield, Illinois.)  But I can rarely find any paper memo
       or letter older than a week. >>
      Scott this was one of the best threads I've ever seen on here, your "paperwork
      challenged' concerns are compensated for by your great report writing
      abilities.......GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
Subject: 
Re: wing loading on a Turkey Buzzard
      
      
      << I was out walking the dogs in the desert late yesterday and watched some
      Turkey Buzzards
       dance around the blustery air teasing my young Border Collie.  These birds
      have got
       to be the ultimate ultra light.
       
       Does anyone know what their wing loading is ?  Do they know how to stall? >>
      Don't know wing loading, but having lived in NM and Tex for 3 years, I
      understand the temptation to ask the question with that "blustery desert air"
      blowing around....It makes for good Soaring , BTW....That's where I developed
      my love for soaring and enabled me to ultimately get my Firestar back here in
      Stow Ohio..........GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
              SPECTRUMINTERNATIONAL(at)classic.msn.com
Subject: 
Re: Landing Gear
      
      writes:
      
      << GEoR38, I'm disappointed, you didn't slam me for bending the gear on you
       tennie FS
       
       
       FRANK J. MARINO
       Chief Loadmaster 773 AS >>
      
      I have too much class to mention your name on this public vehicle MkIII
      driver...(;-)......GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: wing loading on a Turkey Buzzard
      
      >
      ><< I was out walking the dogs in the desert late yesterday and watched some
      >Turkey Buzzards
      > dance around the blustery air teasing my young Border Collie.  These birds
      >have got
      > to be the ultimate ultra light.
      > 
      > Does anyone know what their wing loading is ?  Do they know how to stall? >>
      
      OK, can't leave this alone any longer...
      Just to leave no stone unturned, here are some wing loadings
      
      A/C (or bird)        Wing_Loading_(lb/sf)
      Turkey Vulture            ~1.0  (wt =4.5 lbs, area=5.5' span X 10" avg cord)
      Kolb FS                   ~3.6  
      Space Shuttle            120    (at maximum allowable re-entry weight)
      
      When people ask the common question "what happens if the engine quits" I
      tell them that it is a much better glider than the space shuttle,
      which is your basic flying brick. :)
      
      -Ben Ransom
      (B.S. in Wildlife and Fisheries Biology ...no kidding.  And now you know
       how much good that does me. :)  )
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Cables (cutting and swagging)
      
      To all,
      
      I see no safety concerns in using a Dremel style tool.  I think it is
      better.  Cutting with the Dremel does not distort the wires like a chisel
      can (promoting unraveling) therefore you have no wild stray wires sticking
      out to "bite" you.  This is a different way to cut, chisel away if you want
      to.  Cutting close doesn't mean necessarily against or under the swage.  I
      left a tail of about 1/8 to 3/16. That was about as close as I dared get
      because of the possibility of touching the supporting cable with the cut off
      wheel... and yes it would have ruined my day if I had...  You can protect
      the cable next to the one you are cutting by bending it out of the way
      and/or by placing a strip of sheet metal between them.  In the area between
      the two swagges I painted across the cables (copied from others I had seen
      done that way) so I could see if the cables ever slip against each other.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Stuck Gear Leg Sleeve
      
      
      << The right leg came out with both sleeves attached but the left leg came
       out leaving the outer sleeve in the socket. I fab'd-up a tool to slide up
       and hook on the far end of the sleeve but I've wailed on it pretty good
       with a 8 oz ball-peen and the sleeve will only move in and out about
       1/8". 
       
       Any ideas??? >>
      I had a similar problem when I broke one of my al gear legs completely off and
      realized after tuggin and pullin through drilled holes in the al that it was
      time for the ol "dry ice" treatment of the aluminum. It
      Worked!!.......................GeoR38
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Nicopress sleeves
      
              John Hauck is entirely correct, I have an old copy of AC 43.13-1
      dated 5/1/67 that exactly documents his words. Chapter 4, par 103 covers the
      whole bit, the part we want is called a "thimble-eye splice", and it reads thus:
      beyond the sleeve, as the sleeve will elongate somewhat when it is
      compressed. If the cable end is inside the sleeve, the splice may not hold
      the full strength of the cable."
              Further on it says: "When making a sleeve requiring three
      compressions, make the center compression first, the compression next to the
      thimble second, and the one farthest from the thimble last."
              If you splice a cable, the illustration shows 1/2" between two
      nicos, and at least 1/8" of free end sticking out past each of the two
      nicos, and the accompanying text reads thus: "As in the case of eye splices,
      it is desirable to have the cable ends extend beyond the sleeves
      sufficiently to allow for the increased length of the compressed sleeves."
              This is an old book, but I'm sure the data hasn't changed. The FAA's
      numbering of the book may have changed though, so if anyone is aware of a
      modern equivilent AC #, pass it on, and maybe we can get an updated
      reference number.
              
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
              Technical Counselor EAA 442
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
gliding
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
      
      >When people ask the common question "what happens if the engine quits" I
      >tell them that it is a much better glider than the space shuttle,
      >which is your basic flying brick. :)
      
      
      I use this argument a lot too, and you wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how
      many people don't know the shuttle is gliding.  I'm sure that many people don't
      believe me even after I tell them :-)
      
      BTW- I'm having second thoughts about selling the SS now.  I think I may just
      keep flying it for a while.
      
      Rusty (RV-8A tail almost finished)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
From: 
john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Nicopress sleeves
      
      >        John Hauck is entirely correct, I have an old copy of AC 43.13-1
      >dated 5/1/67 that exactly documents his words. Chapter 4, par 103 covers the
      >whole bit, the part we want is called a "thimble-eye splice", and it reads
      thus:
      >        "Initially position the cable so that the end will extend slightly
      >beyond the sleeve, as the sleeve will elongate somewhat when it is
      >compressed. If the cable end is inside the sleeve, the splice may not hold
      >the full strength of the cable."
      >        Further on it says: "When making a sleeve requiring three
      >compressions, make the center compression first, the compression next to the
      >thimble second, and the one farthest from the thimble last."
      >        If you splice a cable, the illustration shows 1/2" between two
      >nicos, and at least 1/8" of free end sticking out past each of the two
      >nicos, and the accompanying text reads thus: "As in the case of eye splices,
      >it is desirable to have the cable ends extend beyond the sleeves
      >sufficiently to allow for the increased length of the compressed sleeves."
      >        This is an old book, but I'm sure the data hasn't changed. The FAA's
      >numbering of the book may have changed though, so if anyone is aware of a
      >modern equivilent AC #, pass it on, and maybe we can get an updated
      >reference number.
      >        
      >        Richard Pike
      >        MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      >        Technical Counselor EAA 442
      
      
      Howdy Gang:
      
      Thanks for finding that old AC.  I couldn't remember which one it was.  I
      think I was scrounging around the stacks in the Air University Library at
      Maxwell AFB when I found the info in a real old book that was printed right
      after the National Telephone Supply Co. developed the the Nicopress Sleeve.
      
      One thing I forgot to mention is check some or all of your splices with a
      go/no go gauge.  This will let you know if you have a good splice or not.
      I've never used anything but the little screw down type compressors.  My
      experience with several 3 or 4 of these units indicates that they vary in
      the size and shape of the squeeze, by different manufacturers.  If you are
      new at this have someone with experience take a look at all your splices.
      
      I personally would hesitate cutting a cable close to the sleeve with a
      Dremel tool, primarily because the their high operating speed (just
      guessing aprx 20,000 rpm) and heat produced during the cutting operation.
      Will the heat produced weaken the cable and the splice??  I don't know, but
      again why take the chance.  I have extremely good luck cutting the cable
      with a sharp cold chisel.  Tony Bingelis, "The Sportplane Builder -
      Aircraft Construction Methods" echos AC43.13.1 for cutting, splicing, and
      checking aircraft cable.  BTW, this book available from EAA, on sale at Sun
      and Fun, and Oshkosh, is a very helpful book when it comes to building
      airplanes like ours.  Another of his books is "Firewall Forward" about
      engine installations and related equip.
      
      john hauck
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Thomas L. King" <kingdome(at)tcac.net>
Subject: 
current AC43.13
Date: 
Apr 12, 1998
      
      
       Richard Pike,
      you said:
      
      <       John Hauck is entirely correct, I have an old copy of AC 43.13-1
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      

      
 Richard Pike,
      
you said:
      
 
      
<       John
      Hauck is entirely correct, I have an old copy of AC 43.13-1
<dated
      5/1/67
      that exactly documents his words. Chapter 4, par 103 covers
      the
<whole
      bit, the part we want is called a "thimble-eye splice", and it
      reads
      thus:----------------- 
      
<-----
      
<This is an old book, but I'm sure
      the data
      hasn't changed. The FAA's
<numbering of the book may have changed
      though,
      so if anyone is aware of a
<modern equivilent AC #, pass it on,
      and maybe
      we can get an updated
<reference
      number.
   
      
 
      
The update is AC43.13-1A, Change
      3,  dated
      1988.  I believe this is the most current.  It is currently in
      use as
      a supplemental text in the local A&P school.
      
 
      
The chapter is the same, but paragraph
      numbers
      have changed,  It looks like the part you're  referring 
      to is
      paragraph 196,b.
      
 
      
Tom King
      
 
      
124 King Dome
      Road
Our name is
      King, our house is a Dome, and it's OUR
      road!    
       
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Sun N Fun
      
      To all,
      
      I was perusing the SNF website checking out the forums schedule, etc.  I
      wish they posted the ultralight mini-forums in Paradise City in advance.
      Sure makes me wish I was going this year.  Next year for sure and... in my
      plane I hope.
      
      There was talk a week or so ago about trying to pick a meeting day and time
      at the Kolb tent for those planning to attend.  Seems like people were
      arriving/departing on different days so no one day was good for all.  Since
      I was not going I didn't save the posts or pay attention like I should have.
      
      Earlier years, we tried to meet and were somewhat successful just picking a
      specific time of day and if you were in the area of the Kolb tent (say 2 PM
      for instance) check with the person manning the table to let him/her know
      you are a person on the internet kolb list looking for anyone else on the
      list who might have checked in at the table within those few minutes.  It
      worked pretty well as she/he would point out some person or persons standing
      around nearby in the Kolb area that had just checked in too.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (41.1 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
From: 
Ron Reece <rcreec(at)most.fw.hac.com>
Subject: 
New-bee
      
      Group
      
      Hi.  Just wanted to log on and let everyone know I'm a firestar II
      want-a-be.  I'm seriously thinking of sending Kolb 3k for kit 1.  I was
      just wanting any advise on  tools and options (mainly the powder coating)
      that I might need to would be nice to have.   Thanks for your time.
      Ron Reece                                        Return: rcreec(at)most.fw.hac.com
      Raytheon Corp.
      Ft. Wayne IN                
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
kolb: cutting cables easier.
      
        I found it really easy to cut the Kolb aircraft cables with a diagonal
      cutter (also called Dykes, used for cutting wire).  Make sure it is sharp,
      and wrap the cable with just two layers of electrical tape before cutting
      to prevent fraying.  You can leave the electrical tape on the cut-end while
      you are working it thru the fittings, etc.  I did not try the chisel method
      once I had figured out this diagonal cutter (or one of you maybe told me).
      Perfect cuts every time.  Wrap the tape nice and tight, just two layers.
      see ya, jim.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
Subject: 
Re: kolb: cutting cables easier.
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      I have always used a swiss made cable cutting tool called FELCO C7 with
      excellent results. The ends are square with  absolutely no fraying and no
      need for tape. Cost, around $45.    Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Kolb: New-bee
      
      Ron,
         I just built a Firestar II and I have been with the mailing list
      since last summer. Most builders say, and myself included, that if you
      can afford the power coating, go for it. The other thing that is
      commonly recommended is to pay Kolb to assemble the ribs. If you have
      other specific concerns or questions, bring them on.
      John Jung
      Firestar II N6163J 0.4 hrs
      Original Firestar (looking for a new home)
      http://www.execpc.com/~jrjung/
      >
      >Ron Reece wrote:
      > 
      > Group
      > 
      > Hi.  Just wanted to log on and let everyone know I'm a firestar II
      > want-a-be.  I'm seriously thinking of sending Kolb 3k for kit 1.  I was
      > just wanting any advise on  tools and options (mainly the powder coating)
      > that I might need to would be nice to have.   Thanks for your time.
      > Ron Reece                                       Return: rcreec(at)most.fw.hac.com
      > Raytheon Corp.
      > Ft. Wayne IN
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by r1.boston.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.6.Beta0/2.0.kim) with ESMTP id SAAAA24824
Subject: 
Re: kolb: cutting cables easier.
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
      
      Ray,
      
      I did cut my cables with a dremel tool when I first built my plane. It
      does cut very clean with very little heat on the cable end. This time
      when I cut my cables for the tail-bracing, I borrowed a cutter. The
      cutter does not cut quite as clean as the dremel tool did. If you are the
      picky type and want the true squared ends, I'd go with the dremel tool.
      You have to use the cutting disk and wrap the cutting area with masking
      tape. You do have to use caution and not nick the good side of the cable,
      of course.  As someone else mentioned, you can use the masking tape so
      you don't accidently nick it.
      
      Ray, maybe that cutter of yours does a better job than the one Jerry gave
      me to use.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      writes:
      >I have always used a swiss made cable cutting tool called FELCO C7 
      >with excellent results. The ends are square with  absolutely no 
      >fraying and no need for tape. Cost, around $45.    Ray Lujon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: New-bee (powder coating?)
      
      On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Ron Reece wrote:
      > Group
      > 
      > Hi.  Just wanted to log on and let everyone know I'm a firestar II
      > want-a-be.  I'm seriously thinking of sending Kolb 3k for kit 1.  I was
      > just wanting any advise on  tools and options (mainly the powder coating)
      > that I might need to would be nice to have.   Thanks for your time.
      > Ron Reece                                        Return: rcreec(at)most.fw.hac.com
      > Raytheon Corp.
      > Ft. Wayne IN                
      
      
      Ron,
      I built a FS KXP.  On mine, i couldn't easily find a powder coating 
      place nearby so I strip cleaned and epoxy primed my cage.  The quality 
      is excellent in terms of corrosion protection, and it is very difficult
      to put a nick in the epoxy (and painted) surface.  But, with powder
      coating, the finish is even tougher.  
      
      If you choose to prepare and epoxy spray the frame yourself, it will
      take a good 30+ hours of your time and elbow grease to get all the frame
      and steel fittings clean enf to prime ...then another 1/2 day for the
      priming itself.  Compare all that to ~$250 for powder coating (no prep
      work at all here either; powder coating includes sandblasting).
                                     
      - Ben Ransom                   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 1998
Subject: 
New Twinstar Pix
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      I added some new pictures of my Twinstar to a page of their own today. Go
      here:
      
      http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
      
      Then "More Pictures", in the upper left is a link called, "Twinstar
      Photos". I was disappointed in the quality of the new photos but I'd
      appreciate any comments or suggestions (anyone see something scary,
      please let me know!!). 
      
      -Mick Fine
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      mefine1(at)juno.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
TAllphin <TAllphin(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 14, 1998
Subject: 
Re: CB Radios
      
      I have a question about the hook-up, or patch coard with PTT,that is used to
      connect the CB to a head set with mic. and how to get read of all the RF
      feedback??I've shelded everthing??
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 1998
Subject: 
Re: CB Radios
From: 
rick106(at)juno.com (RICK M LIBERSAT)
      
      TAIIphin
      
      First of all with the first intercom that I had  FLIGHT COM  I had some
      of the problems that you are talking about .I could not get rid of the
      feedback when it was hooked up to the  CB . The way that I solved my
      problem was to get it touch with some of my KOLB buddies who had the
      setup that I wanted  NAV/COM    CB . The unit's they have and like is the
      COMTRONICS    DUAL/COM.   I order one got it in and in place in the  M
      III
      all that I can tell you now is that on the ground at my house where I
      keep the M/III
      I have very clear audio  on the ICOM /  CB  /  CD. as well as intercom
      
           Rick
      >I have a question about the hook-up, or patch coard with PTT,that is 
      >used to
      >connect the CB to a head set with mic. and how to get read of all the 
      >RF
      >feedback??I've shelded everthing??
      >-
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
DLSOUDER <DLSOUDER(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 15, 1998
Subject: 
Away for Sun-N-Fun
      
      Dear Kolbers,
      
      I will be away from my desk for the airshow and won't be back in the office
      until April 29.  Hopefully I be seeing some of you at the airshow.  
      
      Dennis Souder
      Pres Kolb Aircraft
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
amoen(at)upham.ndak.net
Date: 
Apr 15, 1998
Subject: 
Re: CB Radios
      
      >                            
      > Return-Path: 
      > Received: from www.intrig.com (www.intrig.com [206.54.183.49])
      > X-Authentication-Warning: www.intrig.com: bin set sender to owner-kolb(at)intrig.com using -f
      > Received: (from rick106(at)juno.com)
      > To: TAllphin(at)aol.com
      > Cc: mefine1(at)juno.com, kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:30:28 -0500
      > Subject: Re: CB Radios
      > Message-ID: <19980414.223037.10558.0.RICK106(at)juno.com>
      > References: <913b65c2.35341d70(at)aol.com>
      > X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
      > X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8,10-23
      > From: rick106(at)juno.com (RICK M LIBERSAT)
      > Sender: owner-kolb(at)intrig.com
      > 
      > TAIIphin
      > 
      > First of all with the first intercom that I had  FLIGHT COM  I had some
      > of the problems that you are talking about .I could not get rid of the
      > feedback when it was hooked up to the  CB . The way that I solved my
      > problem was to get it touch with some of my KOLB buddies who had the
      > setup that I wanted  NAV/COM    CB . The unit's they have and like is the
      > COMTRONICS    DUAL/COM.   I order one got it in and in place in the  M
      > III
      > all that I can tell you now is that on the ground at my house where I
      > keep the M/III
      > I have very clear audio  on the ICOM /  CB  /  CD. as well as intercom
      > 
      >      Rick
      > >I have a question about the hook-up, or patch coard with PTT,that is 
      > >used to
      > >connect the CB to a head set with mic. and how to get read of all the 
      > >RF
      > >feedback??I've shelded everthing??
      > >-
      > >
      > 
      > _____________________________________________________________________
      > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
      > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Away for Sun-N-Fun
      
           I think this gives new meaning to the reference of "flying a desk".  
           Wish I was there flying a desk.
           
           Have fun "you all" which are able to make it while the rest of us 
           suffer thinking about it.
           
           Jerry
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Away for Sun-N-Fun
      Date:    4/15/98 5:28 PM
      
      
      Dear Kolbers,
           
      I will be away from my desk for the airshow and won't be back in the office 
      until April 29.  Hopefully I be seeing some of you at the airshow.  
           
      Dennis Souder
      Pres Kolb Aircraft
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Them there bearings didn't fit 
      
           
      Hi ya'll,
      
      
      We purchased some of these bearings for our FireFly and got a little surprise 
      when we came to install them.  (The bearing number is:  499502H as referenced in
      the message below).  They were about $4.60 a piece.  
      
      The internal diameter (ID.) is not large enough to slide over the axle past the
      
      threaded portion on our FireFly.  Our axle stock is .625 dia. and the bearing 
      ID. appears to be around .610.  I noticed they were made in Japan thus may be 
      metric.  But they will not slide on.  We have the 6" FireStar steel (wheel 
      barrow type) wheels and they fit a little loose in the hub.  Some RTV or blue GM
      seal adhesive should be used, some thing that tacts up but doesn't get hard or
      
      you'll never get them out.  These bearings also have a snap ring rather than the
      flat flange thus do not insert as far into the hub.  
      
      I would say were on the right track but not quite the right unit.  If we can 
      convert this over to the correct shaft ID. and one with flange, were in 
      business. The bearing is definitely a better quality bearing and is probably 
      available in the configuration required.  I had to ship back out of the country
      
      so my partners running with it now.  Will update you on what he finds but it 
      will be at least two weeks before he does anything due to his going to Sun & 
      Fun.
      
      Just for you all, our bearings in our FireFly with FireStar steel wheels are 
      shot in about 14 hours.  We found that the brakes grab when their in this 
      condition.  Be careful and check yours, you may be surprised how sloppy your 
      wheels are and may be the reason behind a few people claiming their brakes have
      
      locked up.  It has occurred on ours as it permits the wheel to cock slightly to
      
      the line of the brake shoe mechanism.
      
      Jerry Bidle    
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar drum brakes and bearings
      Date:    3/31/98 7:39 PM
      
      
      I can add a few comments about them.
           
      I took a lot of pains to make sure the drum was centered on the wheel by using
      
      masking tape spaced at four points around the centering spacer (because it was
      
      a loose fit and I could see the drum might be off to one side just slightly). 
      Even then, when I spun the wheel I could see the drum was not exactly 
      concentric with the brake shoe plate, but it was close and the brakes worked 
      ok for some time. 
           
      Then at about 170 hours I noticed the axle nut needed to be retorqued, that is,
      
      turn the nut up against the bearing, then back off to the next available cotter
      
      hole.  Apparently I either had too much pressure against the bearing or it just
      
      wore out on its own, but upon landing one day the RH outer bearing failed 
      (small inner race moved inward to center of axle).  With the wheel now cocked 
      to one side, the drum contacted the brake shoes and with the force of the 
      landing weight, it applied the brake and locked up the wheel.  The sudden force
      
      of this caused the entire brake shoe plate to rotate with the wheel, shearing 
      off the 3/16" axle bolt and wrapping the cable around the gear leg. The cable 
      pulled out of its fitting at the wheel and with the landing over the wheel 
      began to rotate again.  (Fortunately this happened on grass and was over so 
      quickly there was no loss of control--on asphalt it could have been a different
      
      story).
           
      A few months, later my buddy Ken Mancus had the exact same thing happen.  We 
      purchased new and better bearings from a bearing supplier with a much closer 
      tolerance.  There is practically no slop and it has eliminated, at least so 
      far, the gear leg shimmy that we would experience on occasion on hard surface 
      runways.  The bearing number is:  499502H.  One other problem I had with these
      
      wheels is the fact that the bearing fits loosely into the wheel hub.  I used 
      some permatex to help secure it in place and take up any slop there.  Hope 
      this may be of help to you all.
           
      Bill Varnes, Audubon, NJ
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
From: 
Mark Swihart <mswihart(at)tcsn.net>
Subject: 
Gap Seal
      
      
       This subject has been broached a few times since I have been on the list.
      Please bear with me. :)   Can I get some feedback as to what material your
      using for a gap seal (url if ya gotta photo of it), and tape wise....Are 
      any of my fellow listers using mylar tape for their gap seal? I remember
      the tape thread that was excellent input.  
       My partner is looking into pro's & con's of mylar, velcro, and the book 
      binding tape.  One of the problems we have to take in consideration is 
      the  100+ summer temps on the Cal. central coast.  The TwinStar will be 
      hangered under a tube and fabric cover until a steel structure can be be 
      built. 
       One other thought. Anyone using the area under the gap seal for storage?
      
      -Mark-
      
      
      West Coast Fly-In '98  May 1-3
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/ul/pruaflyin.htm>
      TwinStar Page
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/kolb.htm>
      Paso Robles Ultralight Association
      <http://www.tcsn.net/mswihart/ul/prua.htm>
      AOL AIM Screen Name: SwihartMrk
      Bradley, California 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Them there bearings didn't fit 
      
      >(The bearing number is:  499502H as referenced in
      > the message below).  They were about $4.60 a piece.  
      
      Kinda curious....what type bearing..ball, tapered roller, etc?  
      I've looked thru my bearing book and can't find this number 
      referenced anywhere.
      
      > The internal diameter (ID.) is not large enough to slide over the axle past the
      
      > threaded portion on our FireFly.  Our axle stock is .625 dia.
      
      5/8" axle...should be a std bearing fit, not metric.
      
      > and the bearing 
      > ID. appears to be around .610. 
      
      15.49mm....not a std mm size either
      
      > I noticed they were made in Japan thus may be 
      > metric.  But they will not slide on.  We have the 6" FireStar steel (wheel 
      > barrow type) wheels and they fit a little loose in the hub.  Some RTV or blue
      GM
      > seal adhesive should be used, some thing that tacts up but doesn't get hard or
      
      > you'll never get them out. 
      
      Locktite makes a bearing "sizer" material that works nicely but won't 
      interfere excessively with future removal....can't recall the product 
      number...bearing place will know.
      
      > These bearings also have a snap ring rather than the
      > flat flange thus do not insert as far into the hub.  
      
      What you should be using is a single row tapered roller bearing, the 
      type used in real vehicals.  If you can give me the wheel housing  ID 
      (bearing OD) I can find one that will do the job for you.....and the 
      sizes will be correct. You'll need to make a couple of tube spacers 
      for the spacing of the bearings inside the wheel but that shouldn't 
      bee too hard...alum tube works fine.
      
      > 
      > I would say were on the right track but not quite the right unit.  If we can
      
      > convert this over to the correct shaft ID. and one with flange, were in 
      > business.
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
From: 
Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: 
Re: Gap Seal
      
      On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Mark Swihart wrote:
      > 
      >  This subject has been broached a few times since I have been on the list.
      > Please bear with me. :)   Can I get some feedback as to what material your
      > using for a gap seal (url if ya gotta photo of it), and tape wise....Are 
      > any of my fellow listers using mylar tape for their gap seal? I remember
      > the tape thread that was excellent input.  
      >  My partner is looking into pro's & con's of mylar, velcro, and the book 
      > binding tape.  One of the problems we have to take in consideration is 
      > the  100+ summer temps on the Cal. central coast.  The TwinStar will be 
      > hangered under a tube and fabric cover until a steel structure can be be 
      > built. 
      >  One other thought. Anyone using the area under the gap seal for storage?
      > 
      > -Mark-
      
      To avoid confusion in this discussion, i'd recommend distinguishing
      between wing gap seal and aileron gap seal.  For your first paragraph
      (AGS), there has been plenty of discussion on tape vs stits.  Tape is
      easy, but attracts dirt over time and won't last as long.  Adhesive backed
      velcro also looses it's grip and attracts dirt over time.  IMO, stits
      fabric is not at all difficult, and i'm prejudiced against using tape
      to build my plane ...at least while it still seems new :-) .  (I've
      seen old Weedhoppers that are more tape than they are anything else. 
      They definetly make you laugh watching them struggle around a pattern
      at 25'agl, all 18HP screaming to hold the plane off the ground.  Ahhh,
      those were sure fun summer evenings watching that old wreck.  :)  )
      
      
      As for the WGS, i spose lots of various storage schemes have been 
      devised (including BRS), but certainly not by me so I'll pass on this one.  
      
      -Ben Ransom
        ...Mike, I'm your California neighbor to the north
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WVarnes <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Them there bearings didn't fit
      
      Ref: bearing 499502H.  Sorry about that guys!
      
      I have the original Firestar with the wheelbarrow wheels utilizing the go-cart
      type brakes. The original bearings that came with the wheel were never used
      due to poor quality and Kolb had sent along some better bearings to replace
      them.
      
      They were marked "General Bearing" and have a rubber shield on both sides.
      There are some numbers on the face of the rubber shields, but between one
      bearing and another, none are the same (ie: 11/10, 9/21, 12/24, 23/7).  The
      bearing housing is machined metal with the flange incorporated.  It is a caged
      ball bearing.  This is the bearing that failed for me and my buddy Ken.  I
      measured them as best I could using a vernier caliper and got the following:
      OD 35mm / 1.377795"  (1-3/8" +)
      Width 11mm / .43307"  (7/16" -) including flange. 
      
      We then purchased the aforementioned 499502H bearings.  These bearings also
      have machined housings, but the flange is, as you pointed out, a snap ring.  I
      didn't take one apart, but I believe it is also a caged ball type.  Upon
      installation, Kens slipped right on with no problem.  He has the KXP model.
      But on mine, the bearing would only fit onto the axle about half way.  There
      was a visable, slight step in the axle diameter.  I had to use some emery
      cloth on the axle to cut it down to size.  It didn't take much.  Apparently
      there are some axles out there that are not true 5/8" dia. all the way.  Also,
      the OD of the bearing does not fit very tightly into the wheel hub (but even
      the other bearings fit loose).
      
      Does this help you out or did I make things worse.
      
      Me to going to Sun-n-fun.  Later
      
      Bill Varnes
      Original FireStar
      Audubon NJ
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Them there bearings didn't fit
      
      > ID 16mm / ,62992"  (5/8" +)         ----------    is really 15.875mm
      > OD 35mm / 1.377795"  (1-3/8" +)  ----------  is really  34.925mm
      > Width 11mm / .43307"  (7/16" -) including flange.   ------  is .4375 in and 11.1125
      mm
      > 
      > We then purchased the aforementioned 499502H bearings. 
      
      inch measured single row tapered roller bearings would equate to  
      bearing # L21549 cone and L2155 cup.  Measurements are....
      
      OD = 34.988mm
      C (cup width) = 8.712mm
      T (cup and cone width) = 10.988mm
      
      These are std numbers...any good bearing house will be able to get 
      them. If the OD wheel measurement is correct, that may be a problem.
      
      
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WillU <WillU(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 16, 1998
Subject: 
Right wing completed :-)
      
      Hola
      I'm happy to report I have completed the right wing and started on the left
      wing.  
      I also updated my builders log and added new pictures.
      
      Will Uribe
      Building a FireStar II
      http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
      To see my builders log click on the moving LED welcome sign
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM02SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27034)
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Wheel Bearings
      
      Hi Group:     I feel some concern regarding the recent conversations on
      installing wheel bearings.  I'm not familiar with that particular
      installation, but I have installed many bearings.  The main thing is - the
      races must NOT turn on the shaft, or in the housing.  Emphasize !!!  If the
      bearing is a slip fit into position, it WILL turn and wear away the shaft
      or the housing.  In a case like this, use a product like Loctite RC620 to
      lock the races in position.  Usually, there will be an interference fit,
      where the bearing race won't fit by 1 - 2 thou. For the inner race, chill
      the shaft - the colder the better, (I use the freezer when possible), and
      heat the inner race - 300 - 400 F. in the oven.  For the outer race, chill
      the race, and heat the housing.  Have everything ready to go, including
      heavy gloves.  When those parts slip together, they will LOCK in place, and
      removal will be very difficult.  Hope this is of some interest.  On my
      reduction drive, I used the heat/chill method, plus the RC 620 together to
      install the thrust bearings.  Don't want those to move !!!                 
         Big Lar
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Wheel Bearings
      
      Hi all,
      
      It seems that the wheels are one place where alot of people are having 
      problems.  Is it only the Wheel Barrow wheels that are having these 
      problems.  I have the big aluminum wheels with the bearings suplied in 
      place.  The axels are fairly raw looking steal.  Is it best not to have 
      them powdercoated or painted, if the fit on the bearings is so tight.  
      Havent really got to that point but am getting ready to send a bunch of 
      parts to my powder coater and am wondering which should be left raw for 
      fit and what amount of prep work should be done before painting/powder 
      coating.  Should I drill every hole there is in the metal parts before 
      painting or do you go ahead and do that afterwards.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: 
FW: Wheel Bearings
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
      
      Big Lar:
      
      This peaks my interest as this would imply that you are not using a
      Rotax gear box, which would imply that you are not using a Rotax engine,
      which would lead me to ask; what type of engine are you using?  I know
      this is reading alot into a simple bearnig installation, but I am always
      on the prowl for alternate engines.
      
      Jason Omelchuck Portland OR
      
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From:        Larry Bourne [SMTP:BigLar(at)MCI2000.com]
      > Sent:        Friday, April 17, 1998 9:51 PM
      > To:        Kolb
      > Subject:        Wheel Bearings
      > 
      [Jason Omelchuck]  "  On my
      > reduction drive, I used the heat/chill method, plus the RC 620
      > together to
      > install the thrust bearings.  Don't want those to move !!!
      > 
      >    Big Lar [Jason Omelchuck]  " 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 18, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Wheel Bearings
      
           Whoa, man I've only got a Kolb FireFly not a F-15.  
           
           I don't know what wheels you have but all I got with our kit is some 
           inexpensive "wheel barrow" type wheels which are less than precision.  
           They have two simple 1 piece bearings like used on mini bikes, 
           go-karts and such.  They simply slide into the center hub on each side 
           of the wheel.  Thats it.  No two piece automotive type units.
           
           The only thing is the bearings which come with the wheels are low 
           quality units and don't appear to hold up to the forces and speed were 
           exposing them to.  I don't want/need any temperature or press fit type 
           installation.  I want to be able to remove the wheel and the bearings 
           in the field if needed just like a conventional airplane.
           
           Were just after some better grade bearings.  The person who originally 
           posted this was on the right track but we found that model referenced 
           would not fit on ours so we just alerted others that they may need to 
           tweak the model number to get the proper fit.
           
           The axle nut when tightened should apply adequate pressure against the 
           bearings inner sleeve to lock it from spinning on the shaft so the 
           outer race then rotates on it.  Likewise the outer portion of the 
           bearing must fit tightly enough in the hub so as not to spin within 
           the hub.  (With these tight tolerance hubs, some bearing type adhesive 
           maybe appropriate, don't use anything that gets hard or you'll never 
           get them out)  Thus the inner and outer spacers you make are important 
           to properly achieve this effect.  Now this raises another issue.     
           
           One other person replied directly to me about also putting a spacer 
           between the inner and outer bearings.  This may have some merit with 
           the tolerance of the wheels were using to keep the bearings parallel.  
           It at least made me think about it a little.
           
           (Partner you better hurry and get back from S&F and finish this)
           
           Jerry Bidle
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Wheel Bearings
      Date:    4/17/98 12:02 PM
      
      
      Hi Group:     I feel some concern regarding the recent conversations on 
      installing wheel bearings.  I'm not familiar with that particular 
      installation, but I have installed many bearings.  The main thing is - the 
      races must NOT turn on the shaft, or in the housing.  Emphasize !!!  If the 
      bearing is a slip fit into position, it WILL turn and wear away the shaft 
      or the housing.  In a case like this, use a product like Loctite RC620 to 
      lock the races in position.  Usually, there will be an interference fit, 
      where the bearing race won't fit by 1 - 2 thou. For the inner race, chill 
      the shaft - the colder the better, (I use the freezer when possible), and 
      heat the inner race - 300 - 400 F. in the oven.  For the outer race, chill 
      the race, and heat the housing.  Have everything ready to go, including 
      heavy gloves.  When those parts slip together, they will LOCK in place, and 
      removal will be very difficult.  Hope this is of some interest.  On my 
      reduction drive, I used the heat/chill method, plus the RC 620 together to 
      install the thrust bearings.  Don't want those to move !!!                 
         Big Lar
           
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Wheel Bearings
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      I gave up on the wobbly steel  wheels and the poor fitting bearings.
      Replaced them with Hegar aluminum wheels. It made a world of difference
      from the very first take off.      Ray
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Wheel Bearings
      
      > I gave up on the wobbly steel  wheels and the poor fitting bearings.
      > Replaced them with Hegar aluminum wheels. It made a world of difference
      > from the very first take off.      Ray
      > 
      
      Same deal except went with the Matco units...also got rid of those 
      negative half ply wheelbarrow tires....they're light for a reason, 
      but staying inflated after running over sand burrs isn't one of them.
      
      JB
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27035)
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Wheel Bearings.
      
      Hi Gang:       Well, it looks like I stirred something up with that, eh ?? 
      Sounds like Jim Baker and Ray Lujon have the answer to the bearing problem.
       Who knows, an F - 15 might be fun someday.  Don't I wish.  As far as
      painting goes, Nothing  should be on the seating surface.  Clean metal
      only.  And for  preliminary work prior to powder coating, seems to me you
      should do as much as possible to avoid damaging the coated surface.  Any
      agrees or disagrees ??                
      
      Talked to a man on the phone tonight who was referred by another Kolb
      builder in the Orange County area.  He's 3/4 sold on a Kolb, but would
      really like to go for a ride in a MK III before making a decision.  He's
      already had an S-12 ride and wasn't too impressed.  (We knew that, didn't
      we ??)  Referrer and myself are still builders, not flyers.  He's willing
      to drive up to 500 miles, or more ! ! ! ! ,  so it would be really great if
      any one can help out.  Any takers ??                  Big Lar
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM04SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27036)
Date: 
Apr 17, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Fw: Wheel Bearings.
      
      Sorry folks, guess I should have mentioned, this fella lives in Riverside,
      CA.
      
      ----------
      > From: Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)mci2000.com>
      > To: Kolb 
      > Subject: Wheel Bearings.
      > Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 10:47 PM
      > 
      > Hi Gang:       Well, it looks like I stirred something up with that, eh
      ?? 
      > Sounds like Jim Baker and Ray Lujon have the answer to the bearing
      problem.
      >  Who knows, an F - 15 might be fun someday.  Don't I wish.  As far as
      > painting goes, Nothing  should be on the seating surface.  Clean metal
      > only.  And for  preliminary work prior to powder coating, seems to me you
      > should do as much as possible to avoid damaging the coated surface.  Any
      > agrees or disagrees ??                
      > 
      > Talked to a man on the phone tonight who was referred by another Kolb
      > builder in the Orange County area.  He's 3/4 sold on a Kolb, but would
      > really like to go for a ride in a MK III before making a decision.  He's
      > already had an S-12 ride and wasn't too impressed.  (We knew that, didn't
      > we ??)  Referrer and myself are still builders, not flyers.  He's willing
      > to drive up to 500 miles, or more ! ! ! ! ,  so it would be really great
      if
      > any one can help out.  Any takers ??                  Big Lar
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 1998
From: 
David Bruner <brunerd(at)ulster.net>
Subject: 
Re: FW: Wheel Bearings
      
      >Big Lar:
      >
      >This peaks my interest as this would imply that you are not using a
      >Rotax gear box, which would imply that you are not using a Rotax engine,
      >which would lead me to ask; what type of engine are you using?  I know
      >this is reading alot into a simple bearnig installation, but I am always
      >on the prowl for alternate engines.
      >
      >Jason Omelchuck Portland OR
      >
      >
      Yes!
      Anyone using a 4 cycle?
      
      2 cycle engines just seem unnatural to me, you know, like helicopters.
      
      Not to belabor the point, but just for ecological reasons alone I'd replace
      those screaming meemies with a cleaner, quieter, low-reving 4 cycle.
      
      I don't have my Kolb yet, but after listening in hereabouts for just a short
      time I'm resigned to using them if for nothing else than it would be beyond
      my abilities to cope with the CG issues alone with a heavier 4-cycle.
      
      Unless.... Has anyone successfully adapted an HKS or any 4-cycle in a single
      seater (near Part 103) Kolb?
      
      david bruner
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: FW: Wheel Bearings
      
      
      >
      >2 cycle engines just seem unnatural to me, you know, like helicopters.
      >
      >Not to belabor the point, but just for ecological reasons alone I'd replace
      >those screaming meemies with a cleaner, quieter, low-reving 4 cycle.
      >
      >       Having worked as a Honda mechanic at one time, I guess it seems
      unnatural to me to have cams, chains, gears, reciprocating valves, and just
      in general a lot of extra STUFF going in all directions when all you really
      need is two pistons...
              And as far as quieter, have you listened to any of the Subaru
      engines on aircraft lately? I have yet to hear any that are even half as
      quiet as any Rotax. There may be some, but they hide 'em well.
              
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 1998
From: 
skip staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net>
Subject: 
Sun-n-Fun
      
      Gentlemen All,
      
      Saturday evening and all is well here in Florida.  FWIW, My wife, Ann, and
      I were over at the Sun-n-Fun Fly-In today and talked with both Homer Kolb
      and Dennis today.  The weather is great and I had a chance to also converse
      with a couple of gents that frequent the conference (subject concerned fuel
      consumption -- remember that thread? :)
      
      Skip
      1984 UltraStar
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 1998
Subject: 
4-stroke AND Part 103?
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      writes:
      
      >.... Has anyone successfully adapted an HKS or any 4-cycle in a 
      >single
      >seater (near Part 103) Kolb?
      >
      >david bruner
      
      It can be done but not with a Kolb (IMHO) and even then, only at the
      expense of some structural integrity. A buddy has a one-off scratch built
      Heath Parasol replica with a half VW that is 103 legal (but just barely).
      It is a great flying plane and sounds absolutely wonderful too but in a
      crash, I'd rather have some steel around me than just wood and/or
      aluminum. Truth be told, the half VW is probably less reliable than a
      well maintained 2-stroke anyways. I think the HKS is quite a bit heavier
      than a half VW and someone recently reported that the claimed HP may be a
      bit exaggerated also (imagine that!).
      
      
      -Mick Fine
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
Subject: 
Re[2]: FW: Wheel Bearings
      
           Yes, I agree that 4-stoke Subaru's CAN be noisy.  We had a guy with 
           one on a Gyro.  You could hear him coming long before you even seen 
           him.
           
           The 2-Cylinder HKS at 116# 4-Cyl. Jabiru at 123# kind cuts into the 
           gross weight.  No where close to being 103 with one of these horses.
           
           I do dream of it though.  
           
           Jerry
           
           
            
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FW: Wheel Bearings
      Date:    4/18/98 9:42 AM
      
      
           
      >
      >2 cycle engines just seem unnatural to me, you know, like helicopters. 
      >
      >Not to belabor the point, but just for ecological reasons alone I'd replace 
      >those screaming meemies with a cleaner, quieter, low-reving 4 cycle.
      >
      >       Having worked as a Honda mechanic at one time, I guess it seems 
      unnatural to me to have cams, chains, gears, reciprocating valves, and just 
      in general a lot of extra STUFF going in all directions when all you really 
      need is two pistons...
              And as far as quieter, have you listened to any of the Subaru
      engines on aircraft lately? I have yet to hear any that are even half as 
      quiet as any Rotax. There may be some, but they hide 'em well.
           
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
           
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      Yesterday I put 2.2 hours on my new Firestar II. I carried a vario
      and a GPS to try to get an idea of the performance and accurracy of the
      airspeed. It was a thermally day so it was difficult to get good
      numbers, but I did determine that my 503 Firestar II does not outperform
      my 377 original Firestar. It seems to need more rpm at the same speed
      and it only slightly outclimbs the 377. The good news is that burns
      about the same 2.3 gallons per hour. Can this be right? I find it
      interesting and I will be changing props and adjusting pitch to try to
      maximize performance of the 503. It currently has a 3 blade IVO and
      turns 6300 rpm max. Ideas? Both planes have the short windscreen.
      John Jung
      SE Wisconsin
      Firestar II N6163J 2.5 hrs
      Original Firestar (needs new home)
      http://www.execpc.com/~jrjung/
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      John,
      
      This is interesting because I test flew a FS I  for a friend that had a
      503 on it. I was surprised to see the climb rate about the same or
      slightly less than my original FS with the 377. The FS I  is about 100lbs
      heavier so this is why its performance is less with the larger engine.
      After flying the FS I, I liked the added weight for handling the rough
      air better, it seems to smooth out the bumps. My original FS feels every
      little bump in the atmosphere, but it does climb well considering it only
      has a 35hp engine.
      
      The 2-blade IVO will be more efficient than a 3-blade in cruise, but the
      3-blade will be smoother. The FS II with the 503, as I recall, should
      have a cruise of about 65mph at 5500rpm. My original FS with the longer
      windshield and the extra weight of the auxiliary tanks up front (40lbs)
      has a cruise of 60mph at 5500rpm. (Come on now guys, we need not go back
      into why the FS flies faster with extra weight ahead of the cg, but it
      does. This means you need not go on a diet to get better performance. I
      can't say that about any other aircraft design.)
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      >Yesterday I put 2.2 hours on my new Firestar II. I carried a vario
      >and a GPS to try to get an idea of the performance and accurracy of 
      >the airspeed. It was a thermally day so it was difficult to get good
      >numbers, but I did determine that my 503 Firestar II does not 
      >outperform my 377 original Firestar. It seems to need more rpm at the
      same speed and it only slightly outclimbs the 377. The good news is that
      burns
      >about the same 2.3 gallons per hour. Can this be right? I find it
      >interesting and I will be changing props and adjusting pitch to try to
      >maximize performance of the 503. It currently has a 3 blade IVO and
      >turns 6300 rpm max. Ideas? Both planes have the short windscreen.
      >John Jung
      >SE Wisconsin
      >Firestar II N6163J 2.5 hrs
      >Original Firestar (needs new home)
      >http://www.execpc.com/~jrjung/
      >-
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Firestar-II / Orig Firestar
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      
      Let's hear it for the Original Firestar!
      
      The good news is that I have an one!
      
      The bad news is that it isn't in the air yet.
      
      Just about ready to start covering everything, then 'plumbing' and
      paint.  Can't wait!
      
      My neighbor (EAA Tech Advisor) told me to expect 2-weeks to cover, and
      3-weeks to paint.  That means another 5-weeks, at least.  Just out of
      curiosity, did most of you guys paint in a booth, or just in a
      hangar/garage, or possibly outside on a calm day?  I don't have a
      booth and don't want to build one.  I can take all the parts to a
      friend's paint booth, but hate to have it there for 3-weeks.
      
      Have fun!
      
                     Ron Carroll
                  Original Firestar
                Independence, OR
      
           A plane  in a hangar is fine,
      but that's not what planes are for.
      Fly the skies, see & do new things.
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      Date: Sunday April 19 1998 7:44 AM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      
      >John,
      >
      >This is interesting because I test flew a FS I  for a friend that had
      a
      >503 on it. I was surprised to see the climb rate about the same or
      >slightly less than my original FS with the 377. The FS I  is about
      100lbs
      >heavier so this is why its performance is less with the larger
      engine.
      >After flying the FS I, I liked the added weight for handling the
      rough
      >air better, it seems to smooth out the bumps. My original FS feels
      every
      >little bump in the atmosphere, but it does climb well considering it
      only
      >has a 35hp engine.
      >
      >The 2-blade IVO will be more efficient than a 3-blade in cruise, but
      the
      >3-blade will be smoother. The FS II with the 503, as I recall, should
      >have a cruise of about 65mph at 5500rpm. My original FS with the
      longer
      >windshield and the extra weight of the auxiliary tanks up front
      (40lbs)
      >has a cruise of 60mph at 5500rpm. (Come on now guys, we need not go
      back
      >into why the FS flies faster with extra weight ahead of the cg, but
      it
      >does. This means you need not go on a diet to get better performance.
      I
      >can't say that about any other aircraft design.)
      >
      >Ralph Burlingame
      >Original FireStar
      >
      writes:
      >>Yesterday I put 2.2 hours on my new Firestar II. I carried a vario
      >>and a GPS to try to get an idea of the performance and accuracy of
      >>the airspeed. It was a thermally day so it was difficult to get good
      >>numbers, but I did determine that my 503 Firestar II does not
      >>outperform my 377 original Firestar. It seems to need more rpm at
      the
      >same speed and it only slightly outclimbs the 377. The good news is
      that
      >burns about the same 2.3 gallons per hour. Can this be right? I find
      it
      >>interesting and I will be changing props and adjusting pitch to try
      to
      >>maximize performance of the 503. It currently has a 3 blade IVO and
      >>turns 6300 rpm max. Ideas? Both planes have the short windscreen.
      >>John Jung
      >>SE Wisconsin
      >>Firestar II N6163J 2.5 hrs
      >>Original Firestar (needs new home)
      >>http://www.execpc.com/~jrjung/
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      >has a cruise of 60mph at 5500rpm. (Come on now guys, we need not go back
      >into why the FS flies faster with extra weight ahead of the cg, but it
      >does. This means you need not go on a diet to get better performance. I
      >can't say that about any other aircraft design.)
      
      
      Eventually, I may get to test this theory on the SS since I still have my 13.5
      gallon tank that can fit in the back seat area.  I would be removing the
      original jugs if I do this, so the forward CG shift should be substantial.  I'd
      be thrilled to get more cruise speed as an added bonus, but I won't hold my
      breath.
      
      Rusty (off to serve my 3-4 week sentence in Cleveland)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      >turns 6300 rpm max. Ideas? Both planes have the short windscreen.
      >John Jung
      
        How about dropping one of those blades and try again.2 blades are more
      efficient than 3.In this instance more is not allways better.Keep the 6300
      rpm as that is about the best match for speed and performance on a 2 cycle
      engine.
       
      
        Woody
      
      
             Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Sunday morn
      
      To all,
      
      Today, I flew a couple of hours.  Couldn't go to Sun N Fun.  This is the
      next best thing.  Nice morning and nice weather.  The wind was light and at
      90 degrees with respect to the runway.  I asked my wife if she wanted to go
      after I made a few touch and go's to knock off the rust of a few weeks of
      not having flown.  She declined... this time.  I'll keep inviting. Sooner or
      later, she will...
      
      First I flew (solo) over to my daughters house, circled a few times and
      waggled my wings at them as they stood out in the alley. Next I made a pass
      down a local rural community grass airstrip with houses on either side.
      Nearby on some new road construction, were some people with hang gliders
      that were launching them with a truck and a bungee or rope.  I doubt they
      stayed aloft very long.  I left there and flew over Lake Lavon to Lavon
      North airport where they fly buckeye powered parachutes, quicksilvers and
      such.  I saw no activity as I dragged the field.  I flew over another leg of
      Lake Lavon to Shortstop, a private (2 home) strip.  Again, no one at home.
      Flying back to the west I flew over some rural land we lease out to see what
      was going on there - recently plowed and planted.  Passing by my home
      airport, I flew past my daughter's home again and then over to Frisco
      airport to do some touch and go's.  There were a couple of Cessnas in the
      pattern and we made several circuits.  It was a short few miles back to
      Aerocountry, my home port, where I plunked down into a blanket of some kind
      of deep blue flowers (not blue bonnets) and taxied back to the hanger for 8
      gallons of fuel and a pint of oil. I stuffed a rag in my exhaust, covered
      the canopy with a blanket and the carb filters with a plastic baggy.
      
      The Kolb needs a bath (it seems to always as my hanger is very dusty), but
      it flew nicely today.  I had not flown in almost a month, so it was good to
      get out today.  The Rotax ran perfectly today.  Started the first pull and
      idled smoothly.  It is almost time for the 50 hour engine check.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (43.3 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: Sunday morn
      
      >To all,
      >
      >Today, I flew a couple of hours. 
      >
      >
      >  I saw no activity as I dragged the field.  I flew over another leg of
      >Lake Lavon to Shortstop, a private (2 home) strip.  Again, no one at home.
      
              
              You don't suppose that they might have been at.....church? :)
      
      <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><     
      
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
              Pastor, Blountville Community Chapel
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Sunday morn
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      Cliff,
      
      Ah that's great!  I took a little flight yesterday. It was 60 deg here in
      Minneapolis. I flew over some RC flyers and I'm sure they were jealous.
      When I used to fly RC 
      Al Reay would fly over and land at the field. I always wished that I
      could do the same thing. Well now I am and it does feel great!
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
       writes:
      >To all,
      >
      >Today, I flew a couple of hours.  Couldn't go to Sun N Fun.  This is 
      >the next best thing.  Nice morning and nice weather.  The wind was light
      
      >and at 90 degrees with respect to the runway.
      
      >Nearby on some new road construction, were some people with hang 
      >gliders that were launching them with a truck and a bungee or rope.  I
      doubt 
      >they stayed aloft very long.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
engine timed
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      Ray,
      
      Well did my annual engine timing today. You are fortunate that you don't
      have to do that. It's a job!  I think I really need new points because
      the timing would move wildly, during adjustment, if you breathed on it! 
      I will install some new ones this summer. Prior to setting the timing,
      the front was .090" and the rear was .083" BTDC. The engine seemed to run
      just fine with the points out of time and I doubt that I will see any
      difference now when I fly it.
      
      I installed new wing bolts on the universal joint. Surprisingly, the old
      ones looked good and have very little wear on them. People have told me
      that I will wear out those bolts by setting up everytime I fly. Hogwash,
      this is the first time I've ever replaced them.
      
      I still need new wheel bearings from Gopher. I will try to get over there
      this week.
      
      I'll bet there was alot of activity at the airpark today.
      
      Ralph
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Sunday morn
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      Richard,
      
      Is this to say that you don't fly on Sunday's?  Don't you know that you
      are closer to the Almighty when you are up there ......
      
      This is from a guy who took Sundays off when I built the plane. I guess
      I'm still amazed that I did in 6 months working full time with 3 kids and
      a newborn. After it was built, I didn't fly on Sundays. Times have
      changed.
      
      Ralph (not so religious anymore) Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      PS.  Maybe I need to fly more so that I can get even closer ......
      
      writes:
      >>To all,
      >>
      >>Today, I flew a couple of hours. 
      >>
      >>
      >>  I saw no activity as I dragged the field.  I flew over another leg 
      >>of Lake Lavon to Shortstop, a private (2 home) strip.  Again, no one at
      
      >>home.
      >
      >        
      >        You don't suppose that they might have been at.....church? :)
      >
      ><><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  
      ><><      
      >        Richard Pike
      >        MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      >        Pastor, Blountville Community Chapel
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Orig Firestar
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      You're not going to believe this but I rolled the paint on the wings just
      like painting a wall. It worked fine so long as you get the proper paint
      roller that won't come apart in the Stits polytone paint. I brushed the
      leading edge and between the ribs. It looks ok and I've had several
      comments about the nice paint job. I did have the tail spray painted
      using auto acrylic with a flex agent. Now 11 years later, the Stits is
      holding up just fine.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar 
      
      
       writes:
      >
      >Let's hear it for the Original Firestar!
      >
      >The good news is that I have an one!
      >
      >The bad news is that it isn't in the air yet.
      >
      >Just about ready to start covering everything, then 'plumbing' and
      >paint.  Can't wait!
      >
      >My neighbor (EAA Tech Advisor) told me to expect 2-weeks to cover, and
      >3-weeks to paint.  That means another 5-weeks, at least.  Just out of
      >curiosity, did most of you guys paint in a booth, or just in a
      >hangar/garage, or possibly outside on a calm day?  I don't have a
      >booth and don't want to build one.  I can take all the parts to a
      >friend's paint booth, but hate to have it there for 3-weeks.
      >
      >Have fun!
      >
      >               Ron Carroll
      >            Original Firestar
      >          Independence, OR
      >
      >     A plane  in a hangar is fine,
      >but that's not what planes are for.
      >Fly the skies, see & do new things.
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
William V Rayfield <rayfiwv(at)mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: 
SunnFun
      
      Went down to Sun n Fun for the weekend. Heaven! On Sunday we watched the
      planes go round the pattern-mostly factory guys.  Those guys have no
      talent at all!  Right!  The wind was a steady 15 mph gusting to MUCH
      stronger!  The Kolb guys made it look soooo nice though! Theat yellow
      Firestar with the 503 will beat anything there into the air! Beautiful! 
      I saw J. Russell's Slingshot there and it looks fantastic-great job
      man!
      I also saw J. Hauck's famous "Miss P'fer" Mark III. That looks like the
      most customized and purpose-built light plane ever built!  And the owner
      is cool guy too! (I talked to a celebrity!)
      
      Bill Rayfield
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      John,
      
      What is the weight differance between the two planes?  I could see you 
      not gaining much in climb if your weight went up proportional to your 
      power gain.  (powerloading constant)  YOu should still get a better top 
      end though cause the drag differance of carrying the weight at cruise 
      should be small.  (by the L/D) What is the ratio of your gear box?  I am 
      not a big fan of the three blade props for performance althought they 
      are great for smoothness and quietness.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar-II / Orig Firestar
      
      >
      >My neighbor (EAA Tech Advisor) told me to expect 2-weeks to cover, and
      >3-weeks to paint.  That means another 5-weeks, at least.  Just out of
      >curiosity, did most of you guys paint in a booth, or just in a
      >hangar/garage, or possibly outside on a calm day?  I don't have a
      >booth and don't want to build one.  I can take all the parts to a
      >friend's paint booth, but hate to have it there for 3-weeks.
      >
      
      
         I don't know what your tech adviser has been covering but it wasn't a
      KOlb.Depending on your knowledge and time,you should be able to cover it on
      a long weekend.Maybe add another evening for pop riveting the fabric and you
      should be done.
         Now depending on how fancy your paint job and waiting a few days till you
      can mask off the next colour the 3 weeks may be accurate but for most of us
      with a solid base coat and maybe a stripe a couple days should do it.
        I sprayed mine outside with the wings hanging on the frame.I use a
      breathing system made of my shop vac,scuba snorkle and a bunch of duct
      tape.I have painted cars in rented spray booths and outside and I seem to
      get less junk in the paint outside.Some people are reporting good results
      using a roller.Experiment on the bottom of the horizontal tail surfaces and
      see if you like the results.I painted an old Vector with house latex paint
      and let it sit outside for 8 years and the fabric was still good when I
      finally decided the airframe was not airworthy and I scrapped it.
      
      
           Woody
      
      
             Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Fuel burn/Prop
      
      I flew my original Firestar today and noticed something interesting.
      My fuel burn was down to 2 gph. It was 2.3 gph with a two blade Warp
      Drive prop. I changed to a wood prop in December and since then I have
      been burnig less fuel. At first I thought that it might be the winter
      air, but that wouldn't explain today.  The only down side is that the
      wood prop is a little louder than the Warp. The Warp will be tested on
      my Firestar II after I get more test time on it's IVO prop.
      John Jung
      SE Wisconsin
      Original Firestar 377
      Firestar II 503 N6163J
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      Topher,
          The Firestar II has 50% more power and only 10% more weight. It also
      has smaller ailerons which reduce the wing area. I am not seeing a
      higher top speed. The stall seems to be about 35 but I need to fly in
      smooth air to really get the numbers accurate.
      John Jung
      >
      >Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
      > 
      > John,
      > 
      > What is the weight differance between the two planes?  I could see you
      > not gaining much in climb if your weight went up proportional to your
      > power gain.  (powerloading constant)  YOu should still get a better top
      > end though cause the drag differance of carrying the weight at cruise
      > should be small.  (by the L/D) What is the ratio of your gear box?  I am
      > not a big fan of the three blade props for performance althought they
      > are great for smoothness and quietness.
      > 
      > Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Sunday morn
From: 
mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine)
      
      
       writes:
      >
      >The Kolb needs a bath (it seems to always as my hanger is very dusty), 
      >but
      >it flew nicely today.  I had not flown in almost a month, so it was 
      >good to
      >get out today.  
      
      Beautiful Wx in Okieland this weekend also. I put an hour or so on the C2
      after nearly 3 months of zero PIC time. I think this has been my longest
      stretch without flying in 7 years, sure felt good even though it weren't
      in a Kolb! 
      
      The dust was pretty thick on my plane also but even worse, the robin that
      I share the hangar with decided to build her nest directly over the nose
      of the C2 this year. Actually, it's my fault. Apparently a robin won't
      re-use an old nest and for the last 2 years she had built it about 2 feet
      off to the left of center. This year I forgot to remove the old nest so
      she built on top of the cow skull that's tied to the bar-joist right over
      the nose of my plane. 
      
      Oh well, at least she keeps the sparrows out, I just hope she doesn't
      raise the rent.
      
      
      -Mick Fine
      Tulsa, Oklahoma
      http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
      Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
      http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
From: 
Larry Cottrell <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: 
Airspeed
      
        I just this winter put a full enclosure on my Firestar II after flying it
      for a year with windshield. The pitot tube in the front of the pod and
      nothing on the static tube inside the plane. Stall was right at 40 MPH. With
      the weight that I have been blessed with, (I wintered well) I assumed that
      was accurate. Since the new enclosure I was seeing indicated speeds that was
      way too high to believe. In looking at the builders manual I see that they
      reccomend that another tube be stuck out with the pitot tube. The end is
      blocked and 1/16 th holes drilled around the tube for a static pickup. Well
      I flew it for the first time last friday and man did I scare my self. The
      plane was flying at 30 mph, my climb out was about 40 to 45. and I kept
      flattening out my climb due to fear of stalling. All of my references were
      gone. It took some doing, but I finally quit looking at my airspeed and just
      flew the plane. For the first time my gps was showing faster than my
      airspeed. I don't think that I exceeded 65 mph IAS all day. My stall was 29
      MPH. I finally convinced my self that what I was seeing was the true air
      speed. A real eye opener. Now I have to learn to land all over again.
      
      Larry
      
      PS
      Richard you continually amaze me, first a FAA advisor and a UL pilot- now a
      "Sky Pilot" too. I think that I would like to see a resume.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"merle hargis" <merlepilar(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar-II / Orig Firestar
Date: 
Apr 19, 1998
      
      I painted mine in a garage and it seem to work out ok.  Make sure you have
      a good fresh air breathing system
      Merle from Orlando
      
      ----------
      > From: Ron  Carroll  <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
      > To: mail List Kolb 
      > Subject: Firestar-II / Orig Firestar
      > Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 11:17 AM
      > 
      > 
      > Let's hear it for the Original Firestar!
      > 
      > The good news is that I have an one!
      > 
      > The bad news is that it isn't in the air yet.
      > 
      > Just about ready to start covering everything, then 'plumbing' and
      > paint.  Can't wait!
      > 
      > My neighbor (EAA Tech Advisor) told me to expect 2-weeks to cover, and
      > 3-weeks to paint.  That means another 5-weeks, at least.  Just out of
      > curiosity, did most of you guys paint in a booth, or just in a
      > hangar/garage, or possibly outside on a calm day?  I don't have a
      > booth and don't want to build one.  I can take all the parts to a
      > friend's paint booth, but hate to have it there for 3-weeks.
      > 
      > Have fun!
      > 
      >                Ron Carroll
      >             Original Firestar
      >           Independence, OR
      > 
      >      A plane  in a hangar is fine,
      > but that's not what planes are for.
      > Fly the skies, see & do new things.
      > 
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      > To: kolb(at)intrig.com 
      > Date: Sunday April 19 1998 7:44 AM
      > Subject: Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      > 
      > 
      > >John,
      > >
      > >This is interesting because I test flew a FS I  for a friend that had
      > a
      > >503 on it. I was surprised to see the climb rate about the same or
      > >slightly less than my original FS with the 377. The FS I  is about
      > 100lbs
      > >heavier so this is why its performance is less with the larger
      > engine.
      > >After flying the FS I, I liked the added weight for handling the
      > rough
      > >air better, it seems to smooth out the bumps. My original FS feels
      > every
      > >little bump in the atmosphere, but it does climb well considering it
      > only
      > >has a 35hp engine.
      > >
      > >The 2-blade IVO will be more efficient than a 3-blade in cruise, but
      > the
      > >3-blade will be smoother. The FS II with the 503, as I recall, should
      > >have a cruise of about 65mph at 5500rpm. My original FS with the
      > longer
      > >windshield and the extra weight of the auxiliary tanks up front
      > (40lbs)
      > >has a cruise of 60mph at 5500rpm. (Come on now guys, we need not go
      > back
      > >into why the FS flies faster with extra weight ahead of the cg, but
      > it
      > >does. This means you need not go on a diet to get better performance.
      > I
      > >can't say that about any other aircraft design.)
      > >
      > >Ralph Burlingame
      > >Original FireStar
      > >
      > writes:
      > >>Yesterday I put 2.2 hours on my new Firestar II. I carried a vario
      > >>and a GPS to try to get an idea of the performance and accuracy of
      > >>the airspeed. It was a thermally day so it was difficult to get good
      > >>numbers, but I did determine that my 503 Firestar II does not
      > >>outperform my 377 original Firestar. It seems to need more rpm at
      > the
      > >same speed and it only slightly outclimbs the 377. The good news is
      > that
      > >burns about the same 2.3 gallons per hour. Can this be right? I find
      > it
      > >>interesting and I will be changing props and adjusting pitch to try
      > to
      > >>maximize performance of the 503. It currently has a 3 blade IVO and
      > >>turns 6300 rpm max. Ideas? Both planes have the short windscreen.
      > >>John Jung
      > >>SE Wisconsin
      > >>Firestar II N6163J 2.5 hrs
      > >>Original Firestar (needs new home)
      > >>http://www.execpc.com/~jrjung/
      > 
      > 
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
      
      Several days ago I wrote about my problem with dragging brakes due to wheel
      wobble.  I found that the axle nuts both needed to be tightened by 2/3 rds
      of a turn.  At the time I thought I had adequately inspected the bearings.
      It turned out to be another classic case of treating the symptom rather than
      the cause.   The next weekend the problem was back and the nuts both needed
      another 1/3 turn.  With this adjustment the brake drum on one side was now
      rubbing on the edge of the plate that mounts the brake shoes. The wheels
      were now shifted too far in on the axles.
      
      Since nothing else could logically account for the problem I replaced the
      bearings with an identical set I had as spare parts.  The gap between the
      drum and shoe plate is now what it should be.  The plate pushes around a lot
      easier.  The plane wants to start rolling at a lower RPM.  The landing roll
      is significantly longer.
      
      I am sending this note to the list not to prove how dumb I am (how I feel
      right now) but so others might profit by my experience.  My plane is FireFly
      S/N 008 with the wheelbarrow type wheels standard for a FireStar.  It had 56
      hrs at the time of the bearing change and 4 hours since that change.  I will
      completely disassemble the old bearings and look at them under magnification
      just out of curiosity.  The bearings are the type with a flange, single row
      of balls, and rubber seals on both sides.  
      
      I am now interested in finding better bearings for these same wheels.
      Possibly a design with 2 rows of balls per bearing.  Can anyone provide some
      data along this line?  Thanks. 
      
      Chris Wayland 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
george_eagle(at)webtv.net (George Thompson)
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
Subject: 
Accident
      
      Does anyone know if the Red Baron's accident occured at Kissimee or at S
      and F. The T V reported it at Kissimee.  Bummer!  The Bald Eagle.
      
      Blue Skys and Tail Winds
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Mick Fine" <froghair(at)mailexcite.com>
Subject: 
Re: Accident
      
      
      >Does anyone know if the Red Baron's accident occured at Kissimee or at S
      >and F. The T V reported it at Kissimee.  Bummer!  The Bald Eagle.
      >
      >Blue Skys and Tail Winds
      >-
      
      >From USA Today, it was the "Airshow of the Stars" at Kissemme.
      
      Full story at:
      
      http://www.usatoday.com/news/nds6.htm
      
      -Mick Fine
      
      
      Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
      http://www.mailexcite.com
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
FW: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
      
      The first time I sent this out the word "plane" in bold type below was
      mistyped as "plate".  
      
      > ----------
      > From:         Wayland, William C.
      > Sent:         Monday, April 20, 1998 8:38 AM
      > To:         'kolb(at)intrig.com'
      > Subject:         Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
      > 
      > Several days ago I wrote about my problem with dragging brakes due to
      > wheel wobble.  I found that the axle nuts both needed to be tightened by
      > 2/3 rds of a turn.  At the time I thought I had adequately inspected the
      > bearings.  It turned out to be another classic case of treating the
      > symptom rather than the cause.   The next weekend the problem was back and
      > the nuts both needed another 1/3 turn.  With this adjustment the brake
      > drum on one side was now rubbing on the edge of the plate that mounts the
      > brake shoes. The wheels were now shifted too far in on the axles.
      > 
      > Since nothing else could logically account for the problem I replaced the
      > bearings with an identical set I had as spare parts.  The gap between the
      > drum and shoe plate is now what it should be.  The plane pushes around a
      > lot easier.  The plane wants to start rolling at a lower RPM.  The landing
      > roll is significantly longer.
      > 
      > I am sending this note to the list not to prove how dumb I am (how I feel
      > right now) but so others might profit by my experience.  My plane is
      > FireFly S/N 008 with the wheelbarrow type wheels standard for a FireStar.
      > It had 56 hrs at the time of the bearing change and 4 hours since that
      > change.  I will completely disassemble the old bearings and look at them
      > under magnification just out of curiosity.  The bearings are the type with
      > a flange, single row of balls, and rubber seals on both sides.  
      > 
      > I am now interested in finding better bearings for these same wheels.
      > Possibly a design with 2 rows of balls per bearing.  Can anyone provide
      > some data along this line?  Thanks. 
      > 
      > Chris Wayland 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
Subject: 
Re[2]: Sunday morn
      
           No, their all at Sun & Fun where the rest of us sinners should be.  
           
           I know activity thins out at Aero Country Airport during this week and the
      
           week of Oshkosh.
           
           
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sunday morn
      Date:    4/19/98 5:20 PM
           
           
      >To all,
      >
      >Today, I flew a couple of hours. 
      >
      >
      >  I saw no activity as I dragged the field.  I flew over another leg of 
      >Lake Lavon to Shortstop, a private (2 home) strip.  Again, no one at home.
           
           
              You don't suppose that they might have been at.....church? :)
           
      <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><     
      
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
              Pastor, Blountville Community Chapel
           
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Orig Firestar
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      I rolled on the polytone with a roller that got from Target stores. Be
      careful, I waisted some paint on a roller that came apart. I didn't use a
      foam roller but a one with short hair-like fiber on it. I used the
      polytone with the UV blocker already in it. It was #105 Insignia White. I
      trimmed with a sunburst on the wings in Cuby Green w/o blocker. The paint
      will leave a "textured" finish almost like you would see when painting a
      wall but not as pronounced. It does not produce drag as one would think.
      
      The cage was primed and painted with Rustoleum spray paint. It is also
      holding up well.
      
      Rolling on the paint is the cheap way to go and it looks great!  I would
      say most builders will not even consider it because they think that it
      wouldn't look good. I have seen spray painted planes that look terrible
      because they oversprayed or undersprayed. With the rolling and brushing
      you can take your time and do a good job. Another advantage to rolling,
      is when you need to repair a tear in the fabric, you won't have to take
      out the sprayer for a 2" piece.
      
      I brushed the polybrush on with 2 coats. I used a large brush for this.
      
      I did not paint the fuse tube. I polish it and the lift struts with
      aluminum polish.
      
      Another way to go is using exterior latex house paint. The latex will
      adhere to dacron and has a long exposure life to UV.  A friend whom I fly
      with in an original FS, painted his with the latex house paint. He did a
      beautiful job in three colors: a yellow lightning bolt on the wings
      surrounded with red and white.
      
      I hope this gives you some ideas.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
       writes:
      >Good hearing from you again, Ralph.  This is the kind of information I
      >am looking for.
      >
      >To be honest with you, I hadn't considered painting the Poly-*Stuff*
      >with a roller, but I sure will consider it now.  A couple more
      >questions: did you do the Poly Brush, Poly Spray, and the Poly Tone
      >all with a roller?  Do you happen to remember what kind of roller you
      >used.  It appears this stuff is pretty potent and would melt most
      >foams (I guess because you use MEK and the Poly Reducer, which are
      >both very  POTENT!)
      >
      >A roller would probable make using it not so hazardous, and would
      >surely not waste paint with overspray.  Great idea!  You mentioned
      >that you brushed the leading edge and between the ribs.  What else is
      >there except the cage?  Didn't you mean that you rolled the *field*
      >areas of the wings, and the cage?  maybe I misread your message.
      >
      >Thanks again,
      >
      >Ron Carroll
      >Original Firestar
      >Independence, OR
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
      >To: kolb(at)intrig.com 
      >Date: Sunday April 19 1998 5:54 PM
      >Subject: Orig Firestar
      >
      >
      >>Ron,
      >>
      >>You're not going to believe this but I rolled the paint on the wings
      >just
      >>like painting a wall. It worked fine so long as you get the proper
      >paint
      >>roller that won't come apart in the Stits polytone paint. I brushed
      >the
      >>leading edge and between the ribs. It looks ok and I've had several
      >>comments about the nice paint job. I did have the tail spray painted
      >>using auto acrylic with a flex agent. Now 11 years later, the Stits
      >is
      >>holding up just fine.
      >>
      >>Ralph Burlingame
      >>Original FireStar
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
      
           Hello fellow FireFly owner,
           
           Question:  Do you have an internal spacer on the axle.  It's easy to 
           over look this and miss making it.  If used it should stop the wheel 
           from moving inward.
           
           Next sorry to say are better bearing.  We have the 6" steel wheels and 
           the bearing which came with them just isn't making it.  You probably 
           experiencing the same thing.
           
           My partners at S&N, I hoping it discuss it with Kolb while there.  
           When he gets back he going after a fix for new better grade bearing.
           
           Jerry Bidle
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
      Date:    4/20/98 10:38 AM
      
      
      Several days ago I wrote about my problem with dragging brakes due to wheel 
      wobble.  I found that the axle nuts both needed to be tightened by 2/3 rds 
      of a turn.  At the time I thought I had adequately inspected the bearings. 
      It turned out to be another classic case of treating the symptom rather than 
      the cause.   The next weekend the problem was back and the nuts both needed 
      another 1/3 turn.  With this adjustment the brake drum on one side was now 
      rubbing on the edge of the plate that mounts the brake shoes. The wheels 
      were now shifted too far in on the axles.
           
      Since nothing else could logically account for the problem I replaced the 
      bearings with an identical set I had as spare parts.  The gap between the 
      drum and shoe plate is now what it should be.  The plate pushes around a lot 
      easier.  The plane wants to start rolling at a lower RPM.  The landing roll 
      is significantly longer.
           
      I am sending this note to the list not to prove how dumb I am (how I feel 
      right now) but so others might profit by my experience.  My plane is FireFly 
      S/N 008 with the wheelbarrow type wheels standard for a FireStar.  It had 56 
      hrs at the time of the bearing change and 4 hours since that change.  I will 
      completely disassemble the old bearings and look at them under magnification 
      just out of curiosity.  The bearings are the type with a flange, single row 
      of balls, and rubber seals on both sides.  
           
      I am now interested in finding better bearings for these same wheels. 
      Possibly a design with 2 rows of balls per bearing.  Can anyone provide some 
      data along this line?  Thanks. 
           
      Chris Wayland 
           
           
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Orig Firestar
      
           OK, I'll bite.
           
           This was a teaser right.  You say the Stitts is holding up fine but 
           how is the tail holding up with the auto acrylic.  I feel like I been 
           left hanging on hold without any music to boot.
           
           Jerry 
           
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Orig Firestar
      Date:    4/19/98 7:54 PM
      
      
      Ron,
           
      You're not going to believe this but I rolled the paint on the wings just 
      like painting a wall. It worked fine so long as you get the proper paint 
      roller that won't come apart in the Stits polytone paint. I brushed the 
      leading edge and between the ribs. It looks ok and I've had several 
      comments about the nice paint job. I did have the tail spray painted using 
      auto acrylic with a flex agent. Now 11 years later, the Stits is holding 
      up just fine.
           
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar 
           
           
       writes:
      >
      >Let's hear it for the Original Firestar! 
      >
      >The good news is that I have an one! 
      >
      >The bad news is that it isn't in the air yet. 
      >
      >Just about ready to start covering everything, then 'plumbing' and 
      >paint.  Can't wait!
      >
      >My neighbor (EAA Tech Advisor) told me to expect 2-weeks to cover, and 
      >3-weeks to paint.  That means another 5-weeks, at least.  Just out of 
      >curiosity, did most of you guys paint in a booth, or just in a 
      >hangar/garage, or possibly outside on a calm day?  I don't have a 
      >booth and don't want to build one.  I can take all the parts to a 
      >friend's paint booth, but hate to have it there for 3-weeks.
      >
      >Have fun!
      >
      >               Ron Carroll
      >            Original Firestar
      >          Independence, OR
      >
      >     A plane  in a hangar is fine,
      >but that's not what planes are for. 
      >Fly the skies, see & do new things. 
      >
           
           
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Wheel Bearings
      
              After just one season, the wheel bearings in my MKIII are shot, and
      I will be replacing them. I have the part #'s referenced in this thread,
      question: does the MKIII use the same size wheels/ bearings as the
      Firestars? If so, I will know what to ask for at the bearing supply.
              Thanx,
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420p (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
From: 
Curtis <cwest(at)lvdi.net>
Subject: 
Build Question 1
      
      Hello All,
      
      It's been awhile, but I've finally got back to working on my FS. So far
      I've completed both H.Stabs. There were some tough angles to cut, but
      they came out looking pretty good.
      
      Just started working on the V.Stab today, and have a question for those
      that can remember this far back in their build process.
      
      As you know, the upper VS is made-up of (3) alum tubes and the tailpost.
      The plans spec the length of the L/E at 47 7/8 inches, the trailing edge
      tube at 30 inches, and the bottom tube is to b   e cut to achieve an
      overall length of 32 inches-out from the T/E of the tailpost to the L/E
      of the VS. My bottom tube came out to 27 3/4 inches.
      
      Ok, here is my concern.  To use the full length of the L/E tube (47
      7/8), I must position the T/E (30 in.) tube about 3/4 of an inch up from
      what the plans depict. The plans show this tube to be covering all of
      the upper (4 3/4 in.) portion of the tailpost. This will leave only 4
      inches to install the 10 (5 ea. side) rivets to. If the T/E tube is
      position as the plans show, then the L/E tube when flush cut, will come
      out to be about 1 in. short.
      
      Hope the above is a clear description.
      
      The plans show a drawing that depicts the overall outside dimensions of
      the upper VS and states "This side is determined by the tailpost and the
      30 in. long tube."
      
      So, I guess their is some fudging allowed here. Maybe this 30 in. tube
      doesn't have to cover all the upper portion of VS.
      
      Comments please  : )
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Orig Firestar
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
      
      Jerry,
      
      You are hanging no longer. The auto acrylic paint on the tail is also
      holding up well and is as good or better than the Stits. I do keep it
      hangered in a garage.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      On Tue, 21 Apr 98 13:05:18 cst jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com writes:
      >OK, I'll bite.
      >This was a teaser right.  You say the Stitts is holding up fine but 
      >how is the tail holding up with the auto acrylic.  I feel like I 
      >been  left hanging on hold without any music to boot.
      >     
      >     Jerry 
      >     
      
      >Ron,
      >     
      >You're not going to believe this but I rolled the paint on the wings 
      >just like painting a wall. It worked fine so long as you get the proper 
      >paint roller that won't come apart in the Stits polytone paint. I
      brushed 
      >the leading edge and between the ribs. It looks ok and I've had several 
      >comments about the nice paint job. I did have the tail spray painted 
      >using auto acrylic with a flex agent. Now 11 years later, the Stits is 
      >holding up just fine.
      >     
      >Ralph Burlingame
      >Original FireStar 
      >     
      >     
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
From: 
wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      >
      ><<  It currently has a 3 blade IVO and
      > >turns 6300 rpm >>
      >   If that is your maximum dynamic RPM you are over pitched.  Max dynamic PRM
      >on a 503 is supposed to 6800.
      >
      >
      
          Where did you get the 6800 rpm number? Max hp. is at 6500rpm and max
      torque is at 5600 rpm.  6300rpm is a good rule of thumb.Try repitching your
      prop to give you about 6300 rpm. I bet you will be surprised.
      
          Woody
      
      
             Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"merle hargis" <merlepilar(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Accident
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
      
      The accident did happen as reported at Kissimmee, Fl.  Sad loss.
      Merle from Orlando
      
      ----------
      > From: George Thompson <george_eagle(at)webtv.net>
      > To: kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject: Accident
      > Date: Monday, April 20, 1998 12:00 PM
      > 
      > Does anyone know if the Red Baron's accident occured at Kissimee or at S
      > and F. The T V reported it at Kissimee.  Bummer!  The Bald Eagle.
      > 
      > Blue Skys and Tail Winds
      > -
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
Subject: 
More bearings......
      
      Try...
      
      http://www.freewaycorp.com/bearings.htm
      
      makers of flanged ball bearings.
      
      Bearing ident system .....
      
      http://www.pacamor.thomasregister.com/olc/pacamor/ident.htm
      
      I think the designation of bearings I took out of the original wheels 
      was ASF-0. My axle was 5/8" and required a spacer tube to bring the 
      axle up to 3/4". The bearings are made by Freeway (above).
      
      Another source...?
      
      http://www.generalbearing.com/products/prod3.html
      
      
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 1998
From: 
Larry Cottrell <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
              At 11:15 AM 4/21/98 cst, you wrote:
      >     Larry,
      >     
      >     Your message is a little unclear what you did with the statis.  Give 
      >     us some more info.  
      >       
          Sorry about that: I drilled out the hole in the front of the pod and put
      the static tube right next to the pitot tube.  To make the static tube I
      took a 1/4 inch piece of brass tubing that I got from the hobby shop. I
      melted a glob of solder in the front and drilled 1/16 holes around the end
      of the tube. Four to be exact, conected a piece of gas line to one end and
      the other to the static port of the ASI. Unless I have misread something it
      is as described in the builders manual. The stall is about right- 29-30 mph
      but the other speeds seem to be a bit slow. Yes according to some and not to
      others. I'm soooooo confused :=(
      
      >______________________________ Reply Separator
      _________________________________
      >Subject: Airspeed
      >Author:  Larry Cottrell  at MAILGATE
      >Date:    4/19/98 11:54 PM
      >
      >
      >  I just this winter put a full enclosure on my Firestar II after flying it
      >for a year with windshield. The pitot tube in the front of the pod and 
      >nothing on the static tube inside the plane. Stall was right at 40 MPH. With 
      >the weight that I have been blessed with, (I wintered well) I assumed that 
      >was accurate. Since the new enclosure I was seeing indicated speeds that was 
      >way too high to believe. In looking at the builders manual I see that they 
      >reccomend that another tube be stuck out with the pitot tube. The end is 
      >blocked and 1/16 th holes drilled around the tube for a static pickup. Well 
      >I flew it for the first time last friday and man did I scare my self. The 
      >plane was flying at 30 mph, my climb out was about 40 to 45. and I kept 
      >flattening out my climb due to fear of stalling. All of my references were 
      >gone. It took some doing, but I finally quit looking at my airspeed and just 
      >flew the plane. For the first time my gps was showing faster than my 
      >airspeed. I don't think that I exceeded 65 mph IAS all day. My stall was 29 
      >MPH. I finally convinced my self that what I was seeing was the true air 
      >speed. A real eye opener. Now I have to learn to land all over again.
      >     
      >Larry
      >     
      >PS
      >Richard you continually amaze me, first a FAA advisor and a UL pilot- now a 
      >"Sky Pilot" too. I think that I would like to see a resume.
      >     
      >-
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      Larry,
          Here is how I have determined airspeed accuracy: Take your GPS with
      you on a smooth air day. Determine the wind direction and fly directly
      into the wind as slow as you are comfortable. (or at whatever speed that
      you want to check) Note the difference between the GPS and airspeed.
      Turn around 180 degrees, fly the same airspeed and note the difference
      with the GPS. Now average the differences. Example: Airspeed is 4 mph
      fast one way and 12 mph slow the other way. Average is -4, or your
      airspeed would be 4 mph slow at that speed. It is important to not be
      crabbing and the proceedure would be more accurate if it were done
      several times to obtain an over all average.
      John Jung
      >
      >Larry Cottrell wrote:
      >snip...
      > The stall is about right- 29-30 mph
      > but the other speeds seem to be a bit slow. Yes according to some and not to
      > others. I'm soooooo confused :=(
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      Group,
         Here is what I think is wrong with my Firestar II as it is currently
      set up. The "quiet" cruise speed is too close to the stall speed. I am
      comparing it with an original Firestar with a 377. The original can
      cruise at 23 mph over stall at a "quiet" rpm. If the rpms on the 503
      powered Firestar II are lowered to the same sound level, I am only 5 mph
      over stall. The Firestar II currently has a three blade IVO with 62"
      dia., but I will be testing the same two blade 66" Warp that I used to
      have on the 377. I will report my findings. 
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
"Jim Gerken GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM" <GERKEN(at)RCHVMX.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: 
Thermostat for 582
      
      I am convinced that the only way I can keep the engine warm after take-off is
      to try a thermostat.  CPS wants 37 bucks plus shipping for the Rotax thermo
      and gasket.
      
      Someone once appended the NAPA part number for the equivalent themostat, could
      you please re-post it for me, I lost track of it somehow.
      
      Thanks!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      
      <<  Where did you get the 6800 rpm number? Max hp. is at 6500rpm and max
       torque is at 5600 rpm.  6300rpm is a good rule of thumb.Try repitching your
       prop to give you about 6300 rpm. I bet you will be surprised.
        >>
      
      
        I got the number from the Rotax 503 book.  Max static rpm is supposed to be
      6200 (i'm doing this from memory) and max dynamic rpm is 6800.  Look at the
      opperator's manual.  Unlesss the specs have changed since I ran a 503 in my
      mark 2 I think you are giving away some top end and risking overheating.  My
      very general understandiing is that just because the hp and torque curves max
      out further down the rpm scale is no reason not to go above them.
      
         I'm going to start running the 582 on my mark 3 soon.  As I recall the
      static/dynamic values are the same.  I plan to diddle with the pitch (easy
      with the ivo) until I get those values.  Thats what the book calls for and I'd
      be wary of  doing anything else.  What does the group have to say about this?
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: 
RE: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
      
      Hi Jerry,
      There is a spacer inboard of the wheel.  It butts against the inner race of
      the wheel's inboard bearing.  However, with bearing wear/deterioration the
      outer race of the inboard bearing (and thus the wheel) can shift further
      inboard without the inner race changing position.  
      > ----------
      > From:         jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com[SMTP:jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com]
      > Sent:         Tuesday, April 21, 1998 10:21 AM
      > To:         kolb(at)intrig.com; Wayland, William C.
      > Subject:         Re: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
      > 
      >      Hello fellow FireFly owner,
      >      
      >      Question:  Do you have an internal spacer on the axle.  It's easy to 
      >      over look this and miss making it.  If used it should stop the wheel 
      >      from moving inward.
      >      
      >      Next sorry to say are better bearing.  We have the 6" steel wheels
      > and 
      >      the bearing which came with them just isn't making it.  You probably 
      >      experiencing the same thing.
      >      
      >      My partners at S&N, I hoping it discuss it with Kolb while there.  
      >      When he gets back he going after a fix for new better grade bearing.
      >      
      >      Jerry Bidle
      > 
      > 
      > ______________________________ Reply Separator
      > _________________________________
      > Subject: Drum Brakes & Wheel Bearings
      > Author:  "Wayland, William C."  at MAILGATE
      > Date:    4/20/98 10:38 AM
      > 
      > 
      > Several days ago I wrote about my problem with dragging brakes due to
      > wheel 
      > wobble.  I found that the axle nuts both needed to be tightened by 2/3 rds
      > 
      > of a turn.  At the time I thought I had adequately inspected the bearings.
      > 
      > It turned out to be another classic case of treating the symptom rather
      > than 
      > the cause.   The next weekend the problem was back and the nuts both
      > needed 
      > another 1/3 turn.  With this adjustment the brake drum on one side was now
      > 
      > rubbing on the edge of the plate that mounts the brake shoes. The wheels 
      > were now shifted too far in on the axles.
      >      
      > Since nothing else could logically account for the problem I replaced the 
      > bearings with an identical set I had as spare parts.  The gap between the 
      > drum and shoe plate is now what it should be.  The plane pushes around a
      > lot 
      > easier.  The plane wants to start rolling at a lower RPM.  The landing
      > roll 
      > is significantly longer.
      >      
      > I am sending this note to the list not to prove how dumb I am (how I feel 
      > right now) but so others might profit by my experience.  My plane is
      > FireFly 
      > S/N 008 with the wheelbarrow type wheels standard for a FireStar.  It had
      > 56 
      > hrs at the time of the bearing change and 4 hours since that change.  I
      > will 
      > completely disassemble the old bearings and look at them under
      > magnification 
      > just out of curiosity.  The bearings are the type with a flange, single
      > row 
      > of balls, and rubber seals on both sides.  
      >      
      > I am now interested in finding better bearings for these same wheels. 
      > Possibly a design with 2 rows of balls per bearing.  Can anyone provide
      > some 
      > data along this line?  Thanks. 
      >      
      > Chris Wayland 
      >      
      >      
      > -
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      >     Sorry about that: I drilled out the hole in the front of the pod and put
      > the static tube right next to the pitot tube.  To make the static tube I
      > took a 1/4 inch piece of brass tubing that I got from the hobby shop. I
      > melted a glob of solder in the front and drilled 1/16 holes around the end
      > of the tube.
      
      For those that are really picky,  the way to make this an adjustable 
      reading ( i.e. get true static) is to make the static line so....
                  
                                ||  washer
      _____________||_____
      static hole   o  ||              | static tube
      _____________||_______|
                                || 
                                ||
                             
      The washer is positioned with R/C wheel collars on both sides and 
      moved back or forward on the tube to get the true static.    
      
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      >>Larry,
      >>
      >>Actually, I'll bet it is still "indicated airspeed" rather than true.  You
      >>have just found the opposite end of the scale for your placement of the
      >>static source.
      >>
      >>My ASI reads consistantly too high.  I have tried "no" static port meaning
      >>behind the panel and one in front of the nose underneath the pitot similar
      >>(but different hole locations and probably a different distance in front of
      >>the nose - all which can make a difference) to what you have mentioned, but
      >>I still get consistantly too high readings.  That darned instrument seems to
      >>have a mind of its own.  As you mentioned, you just have to fly the
      >>instrument indications once you learn what they are.  At least they are
      >>stable and predictable every time. It would be nice though if those
      >>indications were "true".
      >>
      >>I keep saying to myself, darned cheap instrument, but I am sure if you find
      >>the "sweet spots" for your static and pitot, it will read fairly accurate.
      >>In my case I just gave up trying to get it accurate and decided to just fly
      >>the indications.  Man, my plane if fast... and my stall is 45!  Wanna race?
      >>MY asi says it will beat yours... (smily face)...  Take care.
      >>
      
      
      >Thanks for the input, mine reads quite a bit lower than what it did before.
      >I believe it up to a certain point. My problem before was that I was getting
      >readings like 85 mph full throttle with a little nose down. dNow it is 65
      >max. I only want to know whether it is going to lose the wings at 70 MPH
      >indicated airspeed.
      >
      >regards
      >Larry
      >
      
      Larry,
      
      I checked the ASI against the GPS (which really is accurate) on a fairly
      calm day by flying a box (90 degree courses) and averaging the varying
      speeds of the GPS against a constantly held speed according to the ASI.  My
      ASI reads about 10 mph too high near stall (ie. 45 mph indicated) and up to
      15+ mph too high at the top end (ie. 85 to 90 mph indicated).  I find myself
      using the GPS mostly amyway to know my ground speed in estimating my fuel
      range when that is important.  I find I like to cruise around if I have no
      destination in mind at just over 5K rpm indicating 65 mph (probably 55 mph
      actually).  I have two big red marks on my ASI - 65 (which represents pretty
      much climb, descent, & pattern speeds as well as slow cruise) and 50 mph
      indicated (which is 5 mph over indicated stall) - which I never fly slower
      than under any circumstance except when actually practicing stalls.  65 mph
      indidated is a speed that is not bumpy and you can really enjoy the scenery.
      That also seems to be a good fuel economy speed (somewhere around 3.3 gph)
      for me running the 582 at stock settings and jets.  Getting somewhere on the
      other hand requires more like 5.5+K rpm, but the ride becomes a little more
      uncomfortable and the engine starts to slurp the gas (getting up near 4
      gph). I almost never fly it flat out full throttle at 6.25K unless on take
      off or climb.  It's like riding a bucking bronco (maybe a little exageration
      there).  I get airsick easily.  Way up high though in very smooth air, the
      ride can almost rock you to sleep.
      
      I think I will put this out to the list in general.  Nothing special, just
      hanger talk.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (43.3 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      Cav and all,
      
      >   I'm going to start running the 582 on my mark 3 soon.  As I recall the
      >static/dynamic values are the same.  I plan to diddle with the pitch (easy
      >with the ivo) until I get those values.  That's what the book calls for and I'd
      >be wary of  doing anything else.  What does the group have to say about this?
      
      Just from memory, I think the 582 manual said 6800 max rpm.  Whatever it
      said is what I broke my engine in at.  Other guys have told me that was too
      high (seems like they said 6500 rpm), but that is what I did.  It took a
      neutral setting for the 3 blade IVO for me to attain that speed.  If you
      crank in any pitch the engine will not turn that fast.  After break in, I
      never ran it that fast again. As I recall, the engine temps exceeded the 175
      degrees max allowed to up to 200 degrees on the final full power runs.
      
      About testing the ASI against the GPS, the 180 degree method into and away
      from the wind is correct.  The box way of doing it includes error and is
      wrong.  Anyway, on a calm day with little wind drift, I got pretty close.
      
      Later,
      
      --
      Cliff & Carolyn Stripling   Him:  Kolb MKIII - N582CC (43.3 hrs)
      (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas  Her:  Real Estate Broker - Texas
                  Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
       
              ____________________|_____________________
                             ___(+^+)___      
                                 (_)   
                                8   8
                                  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
From: 
rayul(at)juno.com (Raymond L Lujon)
      
      
          
       I drilled out the hole in the front of the pod 
      >and put
      >the static tube right next to the pitot tube.
      
      I suspect that your main problem is that you do not have your static tube
      in the right place even though the static hole is smaller than the pitot
      hole. If the static source is located in an area producing higher than
      true (surrounding atmosphere ) static pressure, your airspeed indicator
      will read lower than it should. Conversely, a static sourse producing
      lower than true static pressure will cause the airspeed indicator to read
      too fast. Having the static tube facing forward as you have it will 
      cause  the airspeed indicator to read low. If you insist on having a
      static tube the correct location would be along side the fuselage, remote
      though it might be from the pitot tube. For additional accuracy, two
      static ports are installed one on each side of the fuselage to minimize
      the effects of slipping or skidding flight. Such an arrangement must be
      connected by a "T" fitting. For simplicity my static source is the static
      opening on the airspeed indicator which is  inside the fiberglass nose
      fairing. I fly with a long windshield, not a full enclosore. Also
      depending on what length your static and pitot tubes are in front of your
      nose cone will influence your readings because of the pressure wave
      present there.      Ray from Woodbury
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
skip staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net>
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      >For those that are really picky,  the way to make this an adjustable 
      >reading ( i.e. get true static) is to make the static line so....
      >            
      >                          ||  washer
      >_____________||_____
      >static hole   o  ||              | static tube
      >_____________||_______|
      >                          || 
      >                          ||
      >                       
      >The washer is positioned with R/C wheel collars on both sides and 
      >moved back or forward on the tube to get the true static.    
      
      Jim,  This is a great way to get an accurate airspeed indication.  No
      question about it.  However, you might point out that although sliding the
      washer back and forth will allow you to get an accurate airspeed
      indication, it will ONLY be accurate at the particular airspeed that you
      have selected.  
      
      The stock Globe/Temco Swift uses a slideable rubber grommet, or washer, in
      a similar manner.  I adjusted the grommet so the airspeed would be accurate
      at the "gear" speed of 100 mph.  Slower than that (in my installation) my
      airspeed indicates slow, and faster than that it indicates fast.  Without a
      flying pitot boom (one that always points directly into the relative wind)
      AND stategically placed static ports (placed on both sides of the
      fuselage), it is unlikely that you'll ever get an airspeed indicator to
      indicate accurately over a large range of airspeeds.
      
      This brings up another point.....  What is so important about having an
      accurate airspeed indicator?  IMO, as long as the indicator gives you
      continuously repeatable readings, the actual indications are of little
      importance. :)
      
      Regards,
      Skip
      1984 UltraStar
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      
      << I was wondering what engine you had in your MK-II
       and what kind of experience you had with it, Also I wouldn't mind you
       giving me your general overall impressions of the MK-II. >>
      
      
          No problem answering your question.  I thought the mark 2 was an
      outstanding airplane.  The only reason why I sold it is that I am 6'2" and 190
      and my dad is 6'2" and 220.  Either one of us fit in it fine solo, and the
      both of us did fit together, but it was uncomfortable.  With other, smaller
      folks it was fine.  The mark 2 is harder to get in and out of.  The higher
      cabin edge is more difficult to climb over.  Because my dad is a big guy he
      would sort of wiggle his butt over the side and tumble in, a couple of times
      he broke that thin steel tube that supported the back edge of the canopy,
      which was subsequently removed on the mark 3.  A smaller person would not have
      these problems.
      
            We had superb luck with the 503.  My one forced landing had to do with
      the muffler (old style 2 piece) coming apart, and probably should have been
      picked up on the pre-flight.  We had one of the first 503s with dual ignition.
      The 503 has plenty adequate power for the mark 2, however, I thought that the
      fuel capacity was inadequate and switched to two 5.5 gallon tanks.
      
          Things to look for:
         1.  You don't want that old style engine.  If it has single ignition it
      probably has the old style muffler, which you don't want either.  But don't
      dispair, most of the updates can be retrofitted into the older engines.  Get
      the serial number of the engine and call up Phil Lockwood at lockwwod aviation
      and he can tell you what needs to be done to update the engine and give you
      some pricing.
      
      2.  Corrosion.  Has the plane been stored outside?  Water tends to pond by the
      tube at the bottom of the seat. and because the seat fabric is riveted there
      the water can get in and rust the tube.  Was any of the aluminum primed?  The
      manual doesn't say to do it so alot of folks don't.  I have seen a number of
      instances of dissimilar metal corrosion on older kolbs that weren't kept out
      of the weather.
      
      3.  Workmanship.  Are the rivet lines straight?  Is the fabric work neat?
      
      4.  Gear legs.  They tend to curve after a while.  Then guys rotate them 180
      degrees, kolb says you are only allowed to do that once.  Anyway, they are not
      cheap to replace if you have to.
      
      5.  Tail wheel strut.  The early mark 2s came with a fiberglass tail wheel
      strut that was no good.  Kolb later switched to an aluminum bar.
      
      6.  The fuel line that came with the kit yellows and becomes opaque over time.
      This is not good.  You want to be able to see your fuel.
      
      7.  Damage history.  Look at the wingtips for evidence of ground loop.  When
      guys retract the gear on a hard landing you may see some scratching at the
      bottom of the cabin or on the fuse tube.  Look at the nose skid to see if it
      has been folded over and bent back into place.
      
      my mark 2 is now used for instruction by a BFI in New Jersey.  If you are
      looking for time in a 2 I can give you his number.  Good luck.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Fun and Sun Crash
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
      
      On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:43:26  ul15rhb writes:
      >Ray,
      >
      >I was out in my car at noon and listening to the news and heard it. I 
      >will watch the 5:30 national news to get more details. I'm sure we 
      >will here more from the group.
      >
      >Ralph
      >
      >writes:
      >>Ralph........Heard on the  noon news that there was a fatal 
      >>ultralight crash at Fun & Sun, Lakeland, Florida this morning. This is
      not the 
      >>biplane crash at Kissiminee several days ago.           Ray
      
      
      > From: George Thompson <george_eagle(at)webtv.net>
      > To: kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject: Accident
      > Date: Monday, April 20, 1998 12:00 PM
      > 
      > Does anyone know if the Red Baron's accident occured at Kissimee or at
      S
      > and F. The T V reported it at Kissimee.  Bummer!  The Bald Eagle.
      > 
      > Blue Skys and Tail Winds
      > -
      
      >The accident did happen as reported at Kissimmee, Fl.  Sad loss.
      >Merle from Orlando
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Russell Duffy" <rduffy(at)servecom.picker.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      Hello from Cleveland,
      
      Just to add my 2 cents worth... I've tried several iterations of the 
      static tube without having any real success.  The first was using one 
      of the combined pitot/static tubes sold by Spruce, then I tried just 
      an open ASI port.  These were both off, but in different directions, 
      and by as much as 20 mph in some conditions.  After some research in 
      Tony Bengellis' (sp?) book, I converted the Spruce pitot/static port 
      to what he recommended.  It's probably the best yet, but 
      still about 10 mph low across the board.   I had some other 
      experiments in mind, but finally got tired of having a different 
      reading everytime I flew, so I just decided to accept the 
      current readings and mark the ASI accordingly.  Currently, my clean 
      stall indicates 34 when it's probably about 45, and top cruise is 
      about 80 mph but indicates around 70.  
      
      Along the lines of what Cliff was saying, I find that my need for 
      speed in the SlingShot was somewhat misplaced.  In anything short of 
      perfect conditions, the ride is so rough at 80 that I'm sure I 
      wouldn't want to go much faster.  I've even toyed with the idea of 
      clipping the wings a bit to increase the wing loading.  That should 
      give Dennis a heart attack when he gets back :-)
      
      Rusty (I already want to go home) Duffy    
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      >
      >  I got the number from the Rotax 503 book.  Max static rpm is supposed to be
      >6200 (i'm doing this from memory) and max dynamic rpm is 6800.  Look at the
      >opperator's manual.  Unlesss the specs have changed since I ran a 503 in my
      >mark 2 I think you are giving away some top end and risking overheating.  My
      >very general understandiing is that just because the hp and torque curves max
      >out further down the rpm scale is no reason not to go above them.
      >
      
         The book I have states 6500. Turning the prop faster at less pitch may
      not move you through the air faster but will get you off the ground quicker
      sort of like keeping your car in first gear.The slower engine speed will
      also give a faster cruise, lower temp,less fuel burn and less wear&tear on
      the engine sort of like putting your car in 4th gear.Every thing is a
      compromise.This is my 2 cents the final decision is all yours.
      
        Woody
      
      
             Woody
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
Larry Cottrell <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: 
airspeeds
      
         One last time and then I will let it rest. One of the guys asked "
      airspeed is relative, what does it matter". That is true and well said, but
      the only things that I was really worried about was, what speed does the
      wings start falling off? VNE is 90 mph. Is the plane incapable of attaining
      that speed in anything other than full throttle and straight down? I do
      intend to do some checking with the GPS and see how much slower it is.
      
        On another note- if anyone is interested in streamlined strut cores we
      still have a few. $25.00 and that covers shipping.
      
      Larry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Airspeed
      
      > sliding the
      > washer back and forth will allow you to get an accurate airspeed
      > indication, it will ONLY be accurate at the particular airspeed that you
      > have selected.  
      
      Correct.  But some folks can't leave well enough alone.
      
      > This brings up another point.....  What is so important about having an
      > accurate airspeed indicator?  IMO, as long as the indicator gives you
      > continuously repeatable readings, the actual indications are of little
      > importance. :)
      
      Correct again. Airspeed indications are all relative.....a 30mph 
      indicated stall speed is always 30mph in that craft....cruise of 
      55mph is always 55mph....airspeed.  Groundspeed is another matter. 
      With advent of GPS, why worry?
      
      JB
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      >
      ><<  Where did you get the 6800 rpm number? Max hp. is at 6500rpm and max
      > torque is at 5600 rpm.  6300rpm is a good rule of thumb.Try repitching your
      > prop to give you about 6300 rpm. I bet you will be surprised.
      >  >>
      >
      >
      >  I got the number from the Rotax 503 book.  Max static rpm is supposed to be
      >6200 (i'm doing this from memory) and max dynamic rpm is 6800.  Look at the
      >opperator's manual.  Unlesss the specs have changed since I ran a 503 in my
      >mark 2 I think you are giving away some top end and risking overheating.  My
      >very general understandiing is that just because the hp and torque curves max
      >out further down the rpm scale is no reason not to go above them.
      >
      >   I'm going to start running the 582 on my mark 3 soon.  As I recall the
      >static/dynamic values are the same.  I plan to diddle with the pitch (easy
      >with the ivo) until I get those values.  Thats what the book calls for and I'd
      >be wary of  doing anything else.  What does the group have to say about this?
      >
              Depending on what you want our of your airplane, and how tolerant
      your engine is of climbing/not climbing up on the pipe, it can make a world
      of difference.
              One of our locals has a dual ignition 503 on his Drifter, and he is
      a real lightweight, and the Drifter was built as a single seater. He pitched
      his 503 for 5800 RPM max static, cruised at 4800 RPM, and burned just over 2
      GPH. Worked great for him. Then he sold the airplace to a 210 LB. pilot and
      it would only climb at 300 FPM. Repitched to 6200 RPM static, and now ok,
      but noisier and fuel burn up. (Diet time?)
              Had a 532 in my J-6, and spent a day repitching the prop, and
      measuring take off roll, and climbing to 1000' agl, and as long as the
      engine was turning at least 6200 RPM static, could not tell a noticable
      difference. Once the static RPM got below 6000, take off and climb began to
      really suffer. Turning more than 6200 RPM static did not seem to help take
      off & climb much, but cruise was noiser, and slower. This was a Cub-like
      airplane, 625 LBS. empty weight, 2-blade 66" Warp Drive prop.
              The 503 is very tolerant, it does not particularly  seem to get "on
      the pipe" or fall off it. The 582 is supposed to be OK in this respect, but
      I never had one. The 532 is very noticable about "getting on the pipe", and
      if you have too much prop pitch, it will never get past the 5 thousand range
      until you back the pitch off enough, then it will pull right on up to 6200
      static. 
              An engine without enough pitch, and high static/inflight RPM's will
      have high EGT readings, and will not jet properly. Turning too high a static
      RPM can run you nuts trying to figure out your EGT's. A correctly jetted
      engine that has so much pitch that it will not come on the pipe and pull up
      into it's normal range will have low EGT's.
              P.S. Does the Firestar have the same size wheels/bearings as the MKIII?
              
              Richard Pike          
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
UPDATE: Sun n Fun Accident
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
      
      
      Per the Tampa morning paper, the Acft that crashed at Lakeland Linder
      yesterday was a Warp 1-A experimental owned and operated by the
      manufacturer, Star-Lite Engineering out of Englewood, Ohio.  The pilot
      was the company demo pilot and the acft was a prototype with 41.9
      problem-free hours on it before the accident.  The report said he took
      off from the ultralight runway, veered suddenly to the North, and then
      dropped almost vertically into a parking lot.
      The Star-lite people are saying they believe that the engine quit.  It
      was difficult to tell much from the picture in the paper, but it
      appeared to have a Rotax, possibly a 503, with a composite three-bladed
      prop... The airframe was composite and was pretty well hashed up.  This
      input is in response to the questions various folks asked yesterday
      about what happened.
      
      Bill Tuton, Brandon FL  (Firefly builder #76)
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
To: Kolb Listers
      
Per the Tampa morning paper, the
      Acft that
      crashed at Lakeland Linder yesterday was a Warp 1-A experimental owned
      and
      operated by the manufacturer, Star-Lite Engineering out of Englewood,
      Ohio.  The pilot was the company demo pilot and the acft was a
      prototype
      with 41.9 problem-free hours on it before the accident.  The report
      said he
      took off from the ultralight runway, veered suddenly to the North, and
      then
      dropped almost vertically into a parking lot.
      
The Star-lite people are saying they
      believe
      that the engine quit.  It was difficult to tell much from the
      picture in
      the paper, but it appeared to have a Rotax, possibly a 503, with a
      composite
      three-bladed prop... The airframe was composite and was pretty well
      hashed
      up.  This input is in response to the questions various folks asked
      
      yesterday about what happened.
      
 
      
Bill Tuton, Brandon FL 
      (Firefly builder
      #76)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Re: Firestar II vs Original Firestar
      
      Good explaination, Richard. 
      I believe that an explaination like this helps a lot of people.
      John jung
      >
      Richard Pike wrote:
      > 
      >         Depending on what you want our of your airplane, and how tolerant
      > your engine is of climbing/not climbing up on the pipe, it can make a world
      > of difference.
      >         One of our locals has a dual ignition 503 on his Drifter, and he is
      > a real lightweight, and the Drifter was built as a single seater. He pitched
      > his 503 for 5800 RPM max static, cruised at 4800 RPM, and burned just over 2
      > GPH. Worked great for him. Then he sold the airplace to a 210 LB. pilot and
      > it would only climb at 300 FPM. Repitched to 6200 RPM static, and now ok,
      > but noisier and fuel burn up. (Diet time?)
      >         Had a 532 in my J-6, and spent a day repitching the prop, and
      > measuring take off roll, and climbing to 1000' agl, and as long as the
      > engine was turning at least 6200 RPM static, could not tell a noticable
      > difference. Once the static RPM got below 6000, take off and climb began to
      > really suffer. Turning more than 6200 RPM static did not seem to help take
      > off & climb much, but cruise was noiser, and slower. This was a Cub-like
      > airplane, 625 LBS. empty weight, 2-blade 66" Warp Drive prop.
      >         The 503 is very tolerant, it does not particularly  seem to get "on
      > the pipe" or fall off it. The 582 is supposed to be OK in this respect, but
      > I never had one. The 532 is very noticable about "getting on the pipe", and
      > if you have too much prop pitch, it will never get past the 5 thousand range
      > until you back the pitch off enough, then it will pull right on up to 6200
      > static.
      >         An engine without enough pitch, and high static/inflight RPM's will
      > have high EGT readings, and will not jet properly. Turning too high a static
      > RPM can run you nuts trying to figure out your EGT's. A correctly jetted
      > engine that has so much pitch that it will not come on the pipe and pull up
      > into it's normal range will have low EGT's.
      >         P.S. Does the Firestar have the same size wheels/bearings as the MKIII?
      > 
      >         Richard Pike
      >         MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
From: 
John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: 
Lakeland accident
      
      Here is what USA Today said:
      
      
      To find this, I searched their online news for "ultralight".
      John Jung
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: 
RE: Airspeed
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
      
      I have been reading all the messages about accurate airspeed, I would
      like to add my pence worth. I'm an aircrew on a C-130 know as the Herk.
      We have three airspeed indicators on the machine, one for the pilot one
      for the co-pilot and one for the Navigator, and all three indicator
      always read any where from 1 to 10 knots difference and we have 4 pitot
      tubes and 2 static ports the pilot uses what he observes on his airspeed
      indicator and this is in aircraft that cost about $37,000,000. This is
      the same with the altimeter, three of these also. The bottom line is use
      what you see on your aircraft and mark it. The only time airspeed is
      important is on take off and landing, if you know what speed your Kolb
      stalls at thats important.
      
      
      FRANK J. MARINO
      Chief Loadmaster 773 AS
      
      > ----------
      > From:         skip staub[SMTP:skips(at)bhip.infi.net]
      > Sent:         Tuesday, April 21, 1998 1:53 PM
      > To:         jlbaker(at)telepath.com
      > Cc:         kolb(at)intrig.com
      > Subject:         Re: Airspeed
      > 
      > >For those that are really picky,  the way to make this an adjustable 
      > >reading ( i.e. get true static) is to make the static line so....
      > >            
      > >                          ||  washer
      > >_____________||_____
      > >static hole   o  ||              | static tube
      > >_____________||_______|
      > >                          || 
      > >                          ||
      > >                       
      > >The washer is positioned with R/C wheel collars on both sides and 
      > >moved back or forward on the tube to get the true static.    
      > 
      > Jim,  This is a great way to get an accurate airspeed indication.  No
      > question about it.  However, you might point out that although sliding
      > the
      > washer back and forth will allow you to get an accurate airspeed
      > indication, it will ONLY be accurate at the particular airspeed that
      > you
      > have selected.  
      > 
      > The stock Globe/Temco Swift uses a slideable rubber grommet, or
      > washer, in
      > a similar manner.  I adjusted the grommet so the airspeed would be
      > accurate
      > at the "gear" speed of 100 mph.  Slower than that (in my installation)
      > my
      > airspeed indicates slow, and faster than that it indicates fast.
      > Without a
      > flying pitot boom (one that always points directly into the relative
      > wind)
      > AND stategically placed static ports (placed on both sides of the
      > fuselage), it is unlikely that you'll ever get an airspeed indicator
      > to
      > indicate accurately over a large range of airspeeds.
      > 
      > This brings up another point.....  What is so important about having
      > an
      > accurate airspeed indicator?  IMO, as long as the indicator gives you
      > continuously repeatable readings, the actual indications are of little
      > importance. :)
      > 
      > Regards,
      > Skip
      > 1984 UltraStar
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > -
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
Subject: 
Re: MK-II info.
      
         I have recovered a couple of Kolbs.  When I took the fabric off one I was
      shocked to see rings of corrosion on the alum. around the rivets and rust on
      the rivet heads.  When I built my mark 3 I dipped each individual rivet in
      primer and popped it wet (some called this overkill).  Then I spray primed the
      whole part.  There is no way to look in the wings if they are covered per the
      book.  You could cut a hole by the inboard wing rib.  If the plane was stored
      folded moisture condenses in the wings and runs toward the leading edge.  If
      it was stored set up the water runs towrd the trailing edge.  As for corrosion
      in the seat tube your best bet is to do what the glider guys do and take an
      awl and see if you can poke through it.        
      
          As for the rebuild on the 503.  You might be surprised at the cost.  There
      aren't many parts in these things.  Besides 220 hours is not low time in my
      book.  I sold my mark 2 with 135 hours.  15 short of the 150 hour decarbonize
      recomended by the book, which I had every intention of doing.  The guy who
      bought it is of the Mark Brierle school that says you can run to 400 hours
      without decarboning if you use penzoil and Amoco premium.  I am not that
      brave.  As I recall the TBO for a 503 is 300 hours.
      
          As for the difference between the 2 and 3.  The three is a bit heavier.
      The 2 seemed so nimble and light.  You get bumped around a bit in turbulence.
      But the aileron authority is so good you can handle it nicely.  I thought it
      was a really fine plane.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
WGrooms511 <WGrooms511(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
Subject: 
Re: UPDATE: Sun n Fun Accident
      
      Gentlemen;
      Just got back from Sun n Fun. I was there when the crash happened. A friend of
      mine took a picture of the plane about 30 seconds before it happened.
      The aircraft was powered by a 503 DIDC. It appeared as though he could not
      develop full power, as he took almost the entire runway to get off, and then
      climed out very slowly. He started to turn to the right, over the trees when a
      wing dropped and he went in. One would suspect a spin. The aircraft landed
      upside down. Pilot was killed upon impact. I saw the plane on a trailer later
      on that day. Somebody had removed all four plugs, and they looked fine,
      indicating a properly adjusted carb.
       Aircraft was a total loss.
      W Grooms
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
making thrust from horse power with an airscrew
      
      The 503 is rated at 50 hp but how much thrust you make depends on prop 
      diameter and eff.  The bigger the prop the more thrust.
      
      Static thrust Ts=10.41*(HP*Diam*Propeff)^(2/3)
      
      For 72" Ivoprop at 22.6" pitch Propeff = .34 from test data
      
      One neet thing is if you put two 72" props with half the horsepwer each
      you get more thrust.
      
      one 40 hp 72inch @.34 prop eff.=195pounds thrust
      two 20 hp 72inch @.34 prop eff.=246pounds 26% more thrust for your 
      power.
      
      a 66inch prop only nets you 185 pounds thrust
        68                        189
        70                        192
        72                        195
       100                        244~=two six footers with 20 hp each
      
      At cruise you use a dynamic thrust relation,one of which is
      
      Td=Ts*(1-.106*V*((RPM*D^3)/(HP*10^7))^.5)
      
      3000 rpm 2 to 1 reduction drive
      
      v (mph)        Td 72" prop        Td 66" prop
      30             159.079905         154.359517        big prop better for climb
      35             152.952514  149.284933
      40             146.825122         144.210349
      45             140.697731         139.135766
      50             134.570339         134.061182
      55             128.442947         128.986598        small prop better for cruise
      60             122.315556         123.912015
      65             116.188164         118.837431
      70             110.060773         113.762847
      75             103.933381         108.688264
      80              97.8059896        103.61368
      85              91.6785981         98.5390962
      90              85.5512065         93.4645125
      95              79.423815          88.3899289
      100             73.2964234         83.3153452
      
      2000 rpm  3 to 1 reduction drive
      
      v (mph)        Td 72" prop        Td 66" prop
      30        165.826289        159.946737              big prop better longer
      35        160.823295        155.803357
      40        155.820301        151.659977
      45        150.817306        147.516597    more thrust overall with slower prop
      rpm
      50        145.814312        143.373217
      55        140.811318        139.229836
      60        135.808323        135.086456
      65        130.805329        130.943076      small prop better but a bit faster
      @2k rpm
      70        125.802335        126.799696
      75        120.799341        122.656315
      80        115.796346        118.512935
      85        110.793352        114.369555
      90        105.790358        110.226175
      95        100.787364        106.082795
      100        95.7843694        101.939414
      
      1000 rpm  6 to 1 reduction drive, if you could get one
      
      v (mph)        Td 72" prop        Td 66" prop
      30        174.618348        167.228145          better still
      35        171.080696        164.298333
      40        167.543045        161.368521
      45        164.005394        158.438709
      50        160.467743        155.508896
      55        156.930092        152.579084
      60        153.392441        149.649272
      65        149.854789        146.71946
      70        146.317138        143.789647
      75        142.779487        140.859835
      80        139.241836        137.930023
      85        135.704185        135.000211
      90        132.166534        132.070398
      95        128.628882        129.140586  and the little prop is better only way
      up here
      100        125.091231        126.210774
      
      
      if anyone has read this far looks like our "slow" planes should love 
      slow turning, large diameter props.
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
Subject: 
Re: making thrust from horse power with an airscrew
      
      > if anyone has read this far looks like our "slow" planes should love 
      > slow turning, large diameter props.
      > 
      > Topher
      
      They most certainly do. But first you have to have an engine that 
      works in the required RPM range.  Bragging....(or heretic....your 
      choice)....
      
      Hirth 2704 max RPM 5200, max torque 4750, propped with Warp three 
      blade set at 18 degrees pitch, cruising at 60-65 at 3600 RPM, 
      Hirth G27 gearbox at 2.55:1. Prop RPM 1400.
      
      JB
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
From: 
Gary Thacker <gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
Subject: 
ineffective brakes
      
      
      I don't have the FireStarII yet so I can't give a lot of detail 
      but......  During the test flight of, now my, FireStarII the very capable 
      pilot told me that the brakes were ineffective.  Now this guy loves to 
      fly from short fields and needs his brakes.  The brakes on my FireStar 
      are the standard drum type.  We adjusted them during the test flight but 
      really didn't meet with much success.  Have any of you had the same 
      problem and what is the answer?  I too will be using rather short fields 
      and will be needing the brakes.  There must be a trick to these things.  
      I really don't want to put 500 bucks into disks.  Right now I can't.
      
      Thanks for the help
      
      Gary
      =========================================================================
      |   Gary Thacker                 | gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us      | 
      |   Souderton Pa.                |                                      | 
      |                                | gthacker(at)wsd.k12.pa.us (work only)   |
      =========================================================================
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Timandjan <Timandjan(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
Subject: 
brakes
      
      I now have about 100 hours on my Firestar 2 with the Kolb factory brakes and
      have learned a few things.
      
      Last weekend is the first time I applied the brakes hard at some speed to try
      to make a taxi turnoff off a asphalt runway. My tail came up and the nose went
      down, I released the brakes a bit and pulled the stick tighter to my stomach (
      I will admit it's easy to become tail dragger sloppy flying a kolb). Well
      anyways even though the brakes seem a bit marginal, they are enough to put you
      up on your nose..
      Then this weekend after an air show I hopped a bunch of rides with heavy
      adults, flew with a heavy gross weight, more than ever before, (I am impressed
      with the performance even though) and after landing and rolling a bit, I
      noticed with the additional weight the brakes heated up a bit and became  a
      lot less effective, really noticed it when I went to use the brakes to make a
      quick turn from the runway.
      Just FYI from my recent experiences.
      Tim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
       by PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-10 #27035)
Date: 
Apr 22, 1998
From: 
Larry Bourne <BigLar(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: 
Propeller Thrust and Trailers
      
      Hi All:     Thanks a lot, Topher, for sending the detailed Table for Prop
      thrust.  I printed it out, now I have to sit down at leisure and work on
      application.  
      
      Jim Baker:      I'd be interested in hearing how your performance is with
      your low RPM prop, especially regarding prop noise.  I'm aiming in the same
      direction myself, and am very curious.
      
      Back to Trailers, and some bad news.  Earlier I spoke at length about the
      problems I encountered while wiring my Saab (this is a real Saab story) for
      a trailer.  Well, a couple of weeks ago, said Saab died (again), and this
      time isn't worth fixing.  Broken trans.  Anyway, last weekend I went and
      bought a replacement, a 96 Thunderbird; which as far as airplane building
      goes, is a major disaster.  It's an unplanned major expense that sets the
      Mk III back several months.  Anyhow again, looked in my handy JC Whitney
      book, to see about equipping the new  car for a trailer.  Seems there's a
      "DD" hookup module designed to completely isolate the trailer wiring from
      vehicles with "highly sensitive" on - board computers.  This is on page 83
      of catalog # 612D.  This is news to me, and should be considered by anyone
      with a newer car, or probably, truck.  I'd say "blue skies", but they seem
      farther and farther away.                  Big Lar.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
From: 
Jim Kmet <110440.1247(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: 
floats 4 sale
      
      Guys   I`m  posting this for a friend. Scott Trask has a Full lotus 2000
      float system for sale that he had on a MK 3. He was asking 1800 $$ for th=
      em
      His phone # is    906, 779 9157, Located in Iron Mt,, Michigan. Give him
      a
      call for more info, this is all I`ve got on them. Thanks    Jim
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re[2]: MK-II info. - Brand of Oil Mark Prefers
      
           My conversations directly with Mark Brierle indicate just the opposite 
           regarding the use of Pennzoil.  I also have a ThunderGull kit so I 
           have personally talked to Mark just a few times.  
           
           In the past when I had mentioned to him when visiting Lockwood, they 
           recommended the use of Pennzoil (if you get a chance do visit them, 
           it's an interesting operation).  His comment was something to the 
           effect their a repair station aren't they.  He hinted at avoiding 
           Pennzoil unless you like doing decarboning and lots of maintenance.  
           As for Amoco, can't say I recall him commenting much one way or the 
           other about it.  
           
           He holds fast to use of some oil now sold on the West coast under the 
           name of Champ.  It used to be sold under the Duralube name before one 
           of the big guys took over their name.  (Another case of the Little guy 
           loss the fight and had to change their name.)  He claims to run his 
           engines over 1000 without decarboning them using that oil.  He also 
           runs them at high RMP, doesn't lug or load them up, claims better fuel 
           consumption and helps keep them clean and the carbon deposits down.  
           Fly's them cross country to Sun & Fun and Oshkosh each year.  Claims 
           he gets the hours on the engines so who am I to argue with it.
           
           Jerry
           
           
      
      
      ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MK-II info.
      Date:    4/22/98 12:35 PM
      
      
         I have recovered a couple of Kolbs.  When I took the fabric off one I was
      shocked to see rings of corrosion on the alum. around the rivets and rust on 
      the rivet heads.  When I built my mark 3 I dipped each individual rivet in 
      primer and popped it wet (some called this overkill).  Then I spray primed the
      
      whole part.  There is no way to look in the wings if they are covered per the 
      book.  You could cut a hole by the inboard wing rib.  If the plane was stored 
      folded moisture condenses in the wings and runs toward the leading edge.  If it
      
      was stored set up the water runs towrd the trailing edge.  As for corrosion in
      
      the seat tube your best bet is to do what the glider guys do and take an awl 
      and see if you can poke through it. 
           
          As for the rebuild on the 503.  You might be surprised at the cost.  There
      aren't many parts in these things.  Besides 220 hours is not low time in my 
      book.  I sold my mark 2 with 135 hours.  15 short of the 150 hour decarbonize 
      recomended by the book, which I had every intention of doing.  The guy who 
      bought it is of the Mark Brierle school that says you can run to 400 hours 
      without decarboning if you use penzoil and Amoco premium.  I am not that 
      brave.  As I recall the TBO for a 503 is 300 hours.
           
          As for the difference between the 2 and 3.  The three is a bit heavier.
      The 2 seemed so nimble and light.  You get bumped around a bit in turbulence. 
      But the aileron authority is so good you can handle it nicely.  I thought it 
      was a really fine plane.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Cavuontop <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Re[2]: MK-II info. - Brand of Oil Mark Prefers
      
      In a message dated 4/23/98 5:56:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
      jerryb(at)jmd.ods.com writes:
      
      << My conversations directly with Mark Brierle indicate just the opposite 
            regarding the use of Pennzoil.  I also have a ThunderGull kit so I 
            have personally talked to Mark just a few times.  
             >>
      
      
        I will gladly stand corrected on the pennzoil point.  I have heard from a
      number of sources that Brierly runs 503s well beyond the 300 hour tbo
      indicated in the manuals.  I've also heard from a number of sources that he is
      a very smart guy.  I'm just too chicken to do anything other than what the
      manual says.  I have talked with Phil Lockwood about the 150 hour decarbon.
      As I recall he wanted something like $150.00 for the service and said that he
      thought it made alot of  sense not only to check the rings but to do a general
      inspection.  I think there is some freeplay in the reduction drive that should
      be looked at too.  Anyway, given that I have a friend who recently paid
      $100.00 just to have the battery replaced in his cherokee 6 (he supplied the
      battery himself) having a factory authorised guy look your 503 engine over for
      that kind of money seems like a good deal.  I think we all recognise that 2
      strokes are different than lycomings.
      
         I would be very interested in the experiences that other folks in the group
      have had with varying from the factory recomended service regime.  The problem
      with this sort of discussion is that for every guy I talk to who says he uses
      X brand of oil and this gas and he's got 500 hours with cylinder walls that
      look like new and spotless rings, I run into another guy who says he was using
      the same stuff and he seized after 50 hours or even worse, seized during the
      break-in.  My brother used to talk about taking the 0-360 in his Cardinal to
      2500 hours.  500 beyond tbo.  Then he had a kid.  Just because there are some
      lucky folks out there whose engines run great doesn't mean its right for the
      rest of us.  When I drop my toast in the morning it always lands buttered side
      down.  I try to fly with that in mind.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
From: 
Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: 
oil 
      
              Out here in the Hooterville Mountains of East Tennessee, most all of
      us have been using Phillips Injex 2-stroke oil for a long time, no seizures,
      but the rings need cleaning every hundred hours.
              The Phillips distributor has moved out of town, and I was just
      leaving to go buy a case of Pennzoil when here comes this info that it also
      gunks up the rings.
              Once again, it looks like experience may be the best (and only
      reliable) teacher.
              P.S. Can anybody tell me if the MKIII wheels and bearings are the
      same as the Firestar wheels and bearings?
              
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Re[2]: MK-II info. - Brand of Oil Mark Prefers
      
      > The problem
      > with this sort of discussion is that for every guy I talk to who says he uses
      > X brand of oil and this gas and he's got 500 hours with cylinder walls that
      > look like new and spotless rings, I run into another guy who says he was using
      > the same stuff and he seized after 50 hours or even worse, seized during the
      > break-in. 
      
      Good branded oil and clean gasoline in a properly instumented and 
      maintained engine are all it takes. That's it....no magic, no voodoo. 
      These days, major oil brands are much less a factor than it used to 
      be. What do I use? I use what I'm comfortable with....and others 
      should, too.
      
      JB
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Propeller Thrust and Trailers
      
      > Jim Baker:      I'd be interested in hearing how your performance is with
      > your low RPM prop, especially regarding prop noise.  I'm aiming in the same
      > direction myself, and am very curious.
      > 
      
      I was always interested in cruising someplace....not entering short 
      takeoff and climb contests. Therefore, my performance in this area 
      probably suffers compared to others but them's the choices.  I get 
      off in about 150ft and climb 900 ft per min. at 40 mph. I've had 
      folks tell me that it is very quiet compared to other engine/prop 
      combos but that may be a subjective call....certainly not db 
      measured. And it is smoooooooth. 
      
      The reason for the 18 degree pitch is to keep engine in the 
      appropriate rpm range. I could drop it a degree without much effect 
      (I've done as much as two degrees lower to 16) but why diddle with 
      something that works and all the temps are in line.
      
      JB
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104 
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Re: Re[2]: MK-II info. - Brand of Oil Mark Prefers
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
      
      Petroleum based vs. synthetic?
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jim Baker <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
      Date: Thursday April 23 1998 8:44 AM
      Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Re[2]: MK-II info. - Brand of Oil Mark Prefers
      
      
      > The problem
      > with this sort of discussion is that for every guy I talk to who
      says he uses
      > X brand of oil and this gas and he's got 500 hours with cylinder
      walls that
      > look like new and spotless rings, I run into another guy who says he
      was using
      > the same stuff and he seized after 50 hours or even worse, seized
      during the
      > break-in.
      
      Good branded oil and clean gasoline in a properly instumented and
      maintained engine are all it takes. That's it....no magic, no voodoo.
      These days, major oil brands are much less a factor than it used to
      be. What do I use? I use what I'm comfortable with....and others
      should, too.
      
      JB
      Jim Baker
      Pres, USUA Club 104
      Frontier Ultralight Aviators
      Oklahoma City
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ron  Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 
Rotax 377 CDI conversion
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
      
      I'm getting closer with my Original Firestar.  The engine has never
      been run, and I'm trying to decide if I should go to the expense of
      conversion to CDI.  I talked to Airscrew Performance, in Glendale, AZ,
      and they tell me that their CDI conversion idles at zero degrees
      advance and advances to 25-degrees at full throttle.  This, they
      claim, gives a very smooth idle as well as the power that goes along
      with advanced ignition, plus never having to adjust points and timing
      forever.  Their price is $275 plus freight. The mod must be done by
      them, because it cannot be done by the owner (they don't sell parts or
      kits).
      
      My question to the list is: are you aware of other companies that do
      this mod or sell kits for the mod? Also, are their prices and features
      comparable to what Airscrew claims for their's?  A couple of guys on
      this list have stated that the mod is really not necessary because the
      point ignition on the 377 (and all other older Rotax engines) is
      pretty good, not giving much trouble, and the adjustment isn't too
      tough.
      
      Ron Carroll
      Original Firestar
      Oregon
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
From: 
Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Propeller Thrust and Trailers
      
      Just a note about the thrust numbers, They are probably fairly accurate 
      relative to one another but I wouldnt expect them to be particularly 
      close to the actual thrust your set up will produce.  They are just 
      theory, and scientists love theory, engineers love data but pilots love 
      flying!
      
      jim
      
      Hirth 2704 max RPM 5200, max torque 4750, propped with Warp three
      blade set at 18 degrees pitch, cruising at 60-65 at 3600 RPM,
      Hirth G27 gearbox at 2.55:1. Prop RPM 1400.
      
      What is the rated HP at your cruise setting and what is your prop 
      diameter?  It would be interesting to see how eff your warp drive prop 
      is.
      
      I would like to here more about the hirth set up, I have heard so many 
      rumours about hirths that it would be nice to hear how a user likes it.  
      I still have to choose which of these "engines" to use.
      
      Anybody using Amsoil or another one of the synthetics?  If you are using 
      a 100 to 1 oil on the oil injected 503 can you set for the lower ratio, 
      or is it fixed at 50 to 1 idle, 70 to 1 cruise?
      
      Topher
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Rinehart, Mark W." <Mark.W.Rinehart(at)Allison.com>
Subject: 
TRAILERS
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
      
      I'm thinking about buying a utility trailer at Lowe's or Menard's and am
      wondering if it could be modified later to trailer a Mark III.  The
      available sizes are 4.3' x 8', 5' x 8', and 5.3' x 8' with all the beds
      being "tiltable".  Obviously, the trailer would have to be lengthened to
      accomodate a Kolb.  Also I would only be trailering short distances (< 5
      miles). Has anyone ever tried this?  
      
      Hope to purchase KIT #1 of a Mark III at Oshkosh this summer if Dennis
      will give me a good deal (hope he's listening).
      
      
      Mark Rinehart
      "former AF Instructor Pilot and Mark III BFI wanna-be"
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Gary Thacker : 
              ineffective brakes
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
      From: Gary Thacker <gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
      Subject: Kolb-List: ineffective brakes
      Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:49:25 -0400 (EDT)
      
      
      
      Gary
      I know $500 is alot of money. but I got tired of fighting with mechanical
      brakes. Installed Hagar brakes & wheels, and all my brake/wheel bearing
      problems went away.
      Bob Doebler
      
      I don't have the FireStarII yet so I can't give a lot of detail 
      but......  During the test flight of, now my, FireStarII the very capable
      
      pilot told me that the brakes were ineffective.  Now this guy loves to 
      fly from short fields and needs his brakes.  The brakes on my FireStar 
      are the standard drum type.  We adjusted them during the test flight but 
      really didn't meet with much success.  Have any of you had the same 
      problem and what is the answer?  I too will be using rather short fields 
      and will be needing the brakes.  There must be a trick to these things.  
      I really don't want to put 500 bucks into disks.  Right now I can't.
      
      Thanks for the help
      
      Gary
      =========================================================================
      |   Gary Thacker                 | gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us      |
      
      |   Souderton Pa.                |                                      |
      
      |                                | gthacker(at)wsd.k12.pa.us (work only)   |
      =========================================================================
      
      
      --------- End forwarded message ----------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
"Rinehart, Mark W." : TRAILERS
From: 
bobdoebler(at)juno.com (Robert L Doebler)
      
      --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
      From: "Rinehart, Mark W." <Mark.W.Rinehart(at)Allison.com>
      Subject: Kolb-List: TRAILERS
      Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:49:54 -0500
      
      
      Yes Mark, you can use one of these trailers. At least for a Firestar II,
      so probably for a Mark III also. You will need to build a a wider track
      on the bed for the  main a/c wheels. I did not bother extending the bed.
      Just extend the tongue and install a fuselage support bracket on it for
      the tail.
      A long tongue by itself was not stable enough for me. So I put a lenght
      of 2.5" sq tubing the length of the bed all the way up to the front on
      both sides of the trailer. Just inboard of the springs, then welded the
      tongue to this. Made it much more stable. FYI, started out with one of
      these hardware store "kit" 1050# capacity trailers. Hope this helps..Bob
      Doebler 
      I'm thinking about buying a utility trailer at Lowe's or Menard's and am
      wondering if it could be modified later to trailer a Mark III.  The
      available sizes are 4.3' x 8', 5' x 8', and 5.3' x 8' with all the beds
      being "tiltable".  Obviously, the trailer would have to be lengthened to
      accomodate a Kolb.  Also I would only be trailering short distances (< 5
      miles). Has anyone ever tried this?  
      
      Hope to purchase KIT #1 of a Mark III at Oshkosh this summer if Dennis
      will give me a good deal (hope he's listening).
      
      
      Mark Rinehart
      "former AF Instructor Pilot and Mark III BFI wanna-be"
      
      
      --------- End forwarded message ----------
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re: oil /VLS
      
      
      FYI, I just looked at my 582 top end @430 hrs TT and removed the cylinder
      head and exhaust system to inspect for carbon buildup after 120 hrs SMOH. I
      use AV-2 exclusively (from CPS) in the injection system. I was surprised to
      find only light carbon build up on the pistons and some on the top of the
      trapezoid rings that I removed with a razorblade and vacuum. The cylinder
      head was completely clean and only needed wiping off. At this rate I hope
      to get 300 hrs again before a complete decarbonizing service is required.
      Needless to say that I will continue to use AV-2.
      
      Just received my BRS-VLS-900 unit and will use my own brackets to attach it
      to the frame and place it as low as possible and as far forward into the
      gapseal as it can go.The rocket attachment has been moved to the side of
      the box which is very inconvenient and I may attach it separately to the
      frame tube. The gapseal will get a hinged section in the middle with the
      hinge attached to the aluminum leading edge. This section will cover the
      VLS and rocket laucher completely but it will have a 2" bulge at the rear
      end. Has anybody seen an actual launch of a BRS? Is there a heat exposure
      to the gastanks approx  1ft  below the rocket during the lanch? I will ask
      BRS about this also and maybe have to build a blastshield to direct the
      flame to the rear.
      
      Frank Reynen MKIII@430 hrs
      http://www.webcom.com/reynen
      
      
              Out here in the Hooterville Mountains of East Tennessee, most all
      of
      us have been using Phillips Injex 2-stroke oil for a long time, no
      seizures,
      but the rings need cleaning every hundred hours.
              The Phillips distributor has moved out of town, and I was just
      leaving to go buy a case of Pennzoil when here comes this info that it also
      gunks up the rings.
              Once again, it looks like experience may be the best (and only
      reliable) teacher.
              P.S. Can anybody tell me if the MKIII wheels and bearings are the
      same as the Firestar wheels and bearings?
              Richard Pike
              MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: oil 
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
      
      Richard and all,
      
      I think you guys should check into using Klotz, the all-synthetic oil.
      There is a guy that has been using it on his Rotax 377 with prem unleaded
      gas and has put well over 300 hrs on it before having it checked. The
      teardown revealed very little wear and it was clean. I switched over and
      my plugs are the cleanest I've ever seen. I don't bother to even check
      them anymore. Using this and the Seafoam treatment should make it very
      reliable. I'll keep you posted.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original FireStar
      
      
      writes:
      >Out here in the Hooterville Mountains of East Tennessee, most 
      >all of us have been using Phillips Injex 2-stroke oil for a long time,
      no 
      >seizures, but the rings need cleaning every hundred hours.
      >The Phillips distributor has moved out of town, and I was just
      >leaving to go buy a case of Pennzoil when here comes this info that it 
      >also gunks up the rings.
      >Once again, it looks like experience may be the best (and only
      >reliable) teacher.
      >P.S. Can anybody tell me if the MKIII wheels and bearings are 
      >the same as the Firestar wheels and bearings?
      >        
      >        Richard Pike
      >        MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
george_eagle(at)webtv.net (George Thompson)
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
Subject: 
Re: Rotax 377 CDI conversion
      
      I know  Beaty of Airscreaw performance  personaly and I am sure you wil
      be pleased with the improved prefomence of your engine. He is a ongtime
      u ltralighter and knows our engine prolbems.Rember the old  saying " you
      get what you pay for"  The Bald Eagle
      
      Blue Skys and Tail Winds
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Rotax 377 CDI conversion
From: 
ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: 
Apr 23, 1998
      
      Ron,
      
      After setting the timing in my 377 annually, I would very much like to
      have a CDI ignition. At a cost of $275, I think I'd opt for keeping the
      points. The timing adjustment isn't difficult just frustrating at times
      because it's so touchy. You want to do the job right or you could ruin
      the engine. I took a hundred mile flight last night after adjusting my
      points on Sunday. I didn't see any difference in climb or cruise
      performance. The engine ran the same and the front points were out by