Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-av

August 20, 1998 - August 31, 1998



      >Will The DAR/FAA want proof of the Pitot/Static/Transponder
      >certification before they issue the airworthiness certificate?
      >There is only one guy in TLH that does this, and his reputation
      >is bad to say the least.
      
      
      Hi Craig (and anyone else that might be in the area),
      
      I can't answer your question really because I don't have a transponder in my
      Kolb.  There may be another DAR option that you don't know about though.  I used
      a guy named Richard Kukucka (pronounced Ka-kuch-ka) out of Enterprise, AL.  He
      has an IFR Cessna and will fly to you for the inspection.  You pay his fuel and
      the inspection fee which I don't quite remember.  He was great to work with and
      I will absolutely use him again when the RV-8 is done.  If you want to give him
      a call:
      
      334-347-7171 (office)
      334-393-9008 (fax)
      
      When I called him initially, he sent me a packet of info to fill out and return
      to him.  He finished filling out his part, and had it all with him when he came
      to do the inspection.  No pressure, very laid back guy.
      
      Good luck,
      Rusty
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Sharp" <msharp(at)tgn.net>
Subject: Re: Panel Labels
Date: Aug 20, 1998
In the may 1998 Sport Aviation page 109 in the craftsman's corner there is a tip on press on lettering. use clear shelf covering and cut 'windows' around the lettering. then use a light coat of thinned polyurethane clear varnish to protect the lettering...... -----Original Message----- From: Mike McLaughlin <mclaughlin(at)codenet.net> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 9:41 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Panel Labels > >Could you use some of the rub on letters available at some office supply >stores? Place I once worked used to do some custom development and used the >rub-on letters to spell out switch functions. As long as care was taken to >spell correctly and keep the letters aligned, it worked pretty well >(especially when we put on a clear coat of paint/sealer to protect the >letters from scrapes). Advantages of the method were that different size >and colors letters were available and letter placement could be adjusted as >needed. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bourne >> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 12:09 PM >> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Panel Labels >> >> >> >> >> Yeah, at work ( Ritz-Carlton, Rancho Mirage, CA.) we have the fancy, >> computerized plaque and badge maker such as you describe, and it does a >> beautiful job. Unfortunately, I had the panel built, gauges and switches >> installed before I found out about the labelling requirement. So now I >> have a need for some small, odd shaped labels. Just don't know if it's >> feasible on that machine, but it might be worth a try..... See also my >> response to Ron, bearing in mind "computerized." Thanks for the >> thought. >> Big Lar. >> > >Some cut. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fabric covering material
39-40,44-47,49,51-53,56-60,63-66,68-69,74-75,77-88
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 20, 1998
Ron, I will answer your questions "IN CAPS" below: writes: > > >This was originally directed to Ralph Burlingame, but John Jung and >others with an Original Firestar are also included. > > >Ralph, I have a little question that I figure you are the most >experienced person to ask. As you recall, I also have an older model Original >Firestar (1985, kit #015), with all the original building materials, including >the cloth to cover it with. I know it is *not* genuine Stits because it >doesn't have the Stits stencil every 36" on it. Obviously it is a >*generic* material, which worked well in the covering and painting processes. > >My question to you is this: Have you had any problems with the >fabric being somewhat fragile? By that I mean do you have any problem with >the material ripping or tearing? Twice now I have had the material >actually rip. Yesterday I was putting in a fuel line and ran it through an >opening in the material behind the seat. I changed my mind and pulled it back >out, and as I did it sort of hung up and the material ripped about 3". I >was surprised, and now can't help but wonder if every time something >either bumps it I will wind up with a tear. I don't like the thought of >having a small unknown hole in the wing catch the winds during flight and >have it open up into a BIG hole causing unknown damage to me and the plane. MY FABRIC (STITS) IS 11 YEARS OLD NOW AND I FLY YEAR 'ROUND. AS YOU CAN GUESS, IT GETS COLD HERE IN MINNESOTA AND I HAVE NOT NOTICED ANY UNUSUAL TEARS DURING NORMAL USE. THE ONLY TEARS I GET ARE DUE TO KIDS THROWING THINGS INTO THE GARAGE WHERE THE PLANE IS STORED. >I was surprised to find that I am unable to reach the instrument panel >while seated at the controls. If I panel mount my Delcom 960, as I >originally planned, I won't be able to adjust the frequency or volume, adjust >the altimeter, change screens on the GPS. Do you have this problem also, >or did you do something to overcome it? THE ONLY INSTRUMENT I ADJUST IS THE ALTIMETER WHICH IS ADJUSTED BEFORE I BUCKLE UP. MY GPS RESTS ON MY LEG WITH A LEG STRAP WHICH IS PERFECT FOR VIEWING AND PUSHING BUTTONS. >Also, I'm afraid I made my rudder control cables a bit too long >because can barely reach the pedals while seated. I HAVE HEARD OF BUILDERS PUTTING IN TURNBUCKLES IN THE RUDDER CABLES FOR LENGTH ADJUSTMENT. I ADJUSTED MINE SO THE PEDALS ARE ABOUT 90 DEG TO THE BOTTOM OF THE CAGE. IT'S JUST RIGHT FOR ME AND I'M 5' 10" >BTW, did you put some sort of stop on the rudder travel? NO I DON'T HAVE ANY STOPS IN THE RUDDER PEDALS, BUT IT MAY BE A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE I SEE ELEVATOR ARC-MARKS ON THE RUDDER. >I couldn't find anything in the plans so I put in a couple of short 1/16'" cables >attached to the horn that operates the tailwheel. The cables are only about a >foot long and go forward and attach to the bottom of the small vertical fin at >the bottom of the boom tube. Works ok. MY PLANS SHOW THOSE 1/16" CABLES THAT ARE ATTACHED BETWEEN THE RUDDER HORN AND THE TAILWHEEL ARM. >I'll send this to the list just in case someone else can offer some >suggestions. > >Thanks, > >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar RALPH BURLINGAME ORIGINAL FIRESTAR 400+ HRS ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Loose strut pins
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 20, 1998
George, Do you land on a rough field? I'm thinking this may be inducing the extra stress that would wear the strut holes more. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs > > ><< John, > > Did you ever notice this on your Original FireStar? Believe it or >not, I'm using the same lift pins that came with the kit 12 years ago. I > inspect them and they still look good. I have replaced the main >clevis pins, but I don't think I needed to do that either. There is very >little slop in those holes. This tells me a lot about the load on the pins. >If you are seeing that kind of wear, then it appears there might be more >of load factor in the FS II than on the Original FS. What do you think? > > Ralph Burlingame > Original FireStar >> >Ralph/ John ....I have the problem John described on my Firestar KX >(1992), namely that the strut holes only at the fuselage end of the lift >struts are elongating, and it is getting worse each year. I don't think it is >too bad yet but, I suppose more beefiness such as John hauck described or a >small harder bushing would be the answer. How bout you, Dennis, has this one >ever come up to you before?....................GeoR38 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot/Static/Transponder certification
Date: Aug 20, 1998
Rats! Sorry, wrong list. Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Subject: Landing Gear
I have read about Kolbers gear bending and felt that because I used 3/32 cable bracing from the axle to the gear socket it would not happen to me, boy was I wrong. Returning from a cross country I killed the engine at 4k and coasted the last couple of miles (Old glider habits die hard even with a Firestar Rock ) Luckily I lined up for the field because I waited too late to restart successfully and arrived on the runway dead stick, a tad slow and on one wheel. Stretched the wire till half the strands failed and put a real pretty bend in the leg. Dick C. St.Louis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
<< I have read about Kolbers gear bending and felt that because I used 3/32 cable bracing from the axle to the gear socket it would not happen to me, boy was I wrong. Returning from a cross country I killed the engine at 4k and coasted the last couple of miles (Old glider habits die hard even with a Firestar Rock ) Luckily I lined up for the field because I waited too late to restart successfully and arrived on the runway dead stick, a tad slow and on one wheel. Stretched the wire till half the strands failed and put a real pretty bend in the leg. Dick C. St.Louis >> Bless your soaring heart, Dick, I am the Ol Glider pilot and I know the passion you have, to cut the engine, ....I used to do it all the time on my Pterodactyl, but haven't had the guts to do it much on the Kolb. I learned in New Mexico in Schweitzers and became "comfortable" in the 233 and 126 "oil can" in '78-80. Was going to take it up here in Ohio when I returned in '80 but everyone I was going to meet to get me started in this area.........got Killed (killed themselves) ......................a week before I was supposed to meet them...........................3 times....................3 years in a row!!! Well the # 3 has always been significant to me, so I decided that the 4 people had given up their lives for a purpose directly related to me..................................so I decided I would get into some aviation activity that I felt was ............"safe"!! Namely ....................ultralighting! I still soar with the gaggle whenever I hit a bump and have been successful staying in the thermal only 3 times here in Ohio....................they are so few here, .....I actually look for bonfire smoke to fly through............just to remind me of the thermal "highs" of the far west where 1000 Ft /min isn't uncommon. I definitely miss that! GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Subject: instrument panel
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
Ron My instrument was to far away to reach also. So I made an aluminum, one 6" closer. I positioned a piece of plywood 6" away from, and parallel to the old panel. Than I laid a yard stick along the side of the nose cone and marked where it touched the plywood. This gave me the outline of the panel. (It also gives you a bigger instrument panel). The inside is pretty much the same as original, but slightly higher for knee clearance. The new panel I temporarily clamped in place. Put windshield back on and marked where new instrument panel touched it. This now gave me a templet for cutting out an aluminum spacer from nose cone to panel. This sheet aluminum now looks kind of like a large "C". The spacer and panel where riveted together with counter sunk rivets and .5" X .5" X 1/16" aluminum angle. Both the spacer and windshield are now bolted back into the original mounting holes on the nose cone. I can now reach instruments easily. I fly in class D airspace and this is necessary. Hope this helps. Bob Doebler ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1998
From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net>
Subject: Re: Fabric covering material
> >This was originally directed to Ralph Burlingame, but John Jung and others >with an Original Firestar are also included. > > >Ralph, I have a little question that I figure you are the most experienced >person to ask. As you recall, I also have an older model Original Firestar >(1985, kit #015), with all the original building materials, including the >cloth to cover it with. I know it is *not* genuine Stits because it >doesn't have the Stits stencil every 36" on it. Obviously it is a *generic* >material, which worked well in the covering and painting processes. > >My question to you is this: Have you had any problems with the fabric >being somewhat fragile? By that I mean do you have any problem with the >material ripping or tearing? Twice now I have had the material actually >rip. Yesterday I was putting in a fuel line and ran it through an opening >in the material behind the seat. I changed my mind and pulled it back out, >and as I did it sort of hung up and the material ripped about 3". I was >surprised, and now can't help but wonder if every time something either >bumps it I will wind up with a tear. I don't like the thought of having a >small unknown hole in the wing catch the winds during flight and have it >open up into a BIG hole causing unknown damage to me and the plane. > Ron Carroll, I know you received several responses to your question about fabric tears. I believe the advice you received was given too hastily. If your fabric was not stored in sunlight, and it is the fabric supplied by Kolb with the kit, it is most likely OK. The raw fabric before it is coated with polybrush, polytac, or paint, is difficult to rip or tear. But once it is coated with these products and then receives a clean cut like from a razor blade, the cut will seem to tear much easier. It is important to properly patch small tears, and reinforce areas where holes in the fabric need to be used. If you have any doubt about the integrity of your fabric do a punch test. But even new fabric can be ripped fairly easily under the right conditions. Sincerely, Eugene Zimmerman PS flying Kolbs since 1982 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Fabric covering material
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Eugene, I am delighted to hear someone reply sensibly to this question. You reply agrees totally with my feelings, as well as my local EAA Tech Advisor. It is the original fabric furnished with the Kolb kit in 1985, and has been stored in a black plastic bag since that time. From what I understand, this material will last almost indefinitely, even outdoors, if properly finished with Poly-"Stuff". I now have 2-coats of Poly-Brush, 3-coats of Poly-Spray, and 3-coats of Poly-Tone. I expect the fabric to last longer than I will, since I'm 66-years old. Its just that the finish seems VERY fragile when touched by almost anything. A slight bump will leave a ding in the finish. My tech-advisor says that the paint has to gas-off for quite some time before it will get tougher. I hope so. Thanks for your help, Ron Carroll Original Firestar Independence, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net> Date: Friday August 21 1998 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric covering material > > >> >>This was originally directed to Ralph Burlingame, but John Jung and others >>with an Original Firestar are also included. >> >> >>Ralph, I have a little question that I figure you are the most experienced >>person to ask. As you recall, I also have an older model Original Firestar >>(1985, kit #015), with all the original building materials, including the >>cloth to cover it with. I know it is *not* genuine Stits because it >>doesn't have the Stits stencil every 36" on it. Obviously it is a *generic* >>material, which worked well in the covering and painting processes. >> >>My question to you is this: Have you had any problems with the fabric >>being somewhat fragile? By that I mean do you have any problem with the >>material ripping or tearing? Twice now I have had the material actually >>rip. Yesterday I was putting in a fuel line and ran it through an opening >>in the material behind the seat. I changed my mind and pulled it back out, >>and as I did it sort of hung up and the material ripped about 3". I was >>surprised, and now can't help but wonder if every time something either >>bumps it I will wind up with a tear. I don't like the thought of having a >>small unknown hole in the wing catch the winds during flight and have it >>open up into a BIG hole causing unknown damage to me and the plane. >> > > >Ron Carroll, > >I know you received several responses to your question about fabric tears. I >believe the advice you received was given too hastily. If your fabric was >not stored in sunlight, and it is the fabric supplied by Kolb with the kit, >it is most likely OK. The raw fabric before it is coated with polybrush, >polytac, or paint, is difficult to rip or tear. But once it is coated with >these products and then receives a clean cut like from a razor blade, the >cut will seem to tear much easier. It is important to properly patch small >tears, and reinforce areas where holes in the fabric need to be used. If you >have any doubt about the integrity of your fabric do a punch test. But even >new fabric can be ripped fairly easily under the right conditions. > > >Sincerely, >Eugene Zimmerman > >PS flying Kolbs since 1982 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.p.fox(at)ac.com
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
Yikes - shutting down an engine in flight. I don't fly with a Rotax (don't have a Kolb yet, I'm part of this list doing research and deciding) but I do have a Cessna 150 and I know I'd have a potential problem with shock cooling the engine if I did something like what you described. I don't know if the Rotax engine would have a similar problem or not but at first glance I'd think there's got to be something unhealthy happening to the engine if you stop and start it in mid-flight. If the big fan up front stops spinning (or back there in the Kolbs) I start sweating. Brian >>Returning from a cross country I killed the engine at 4k and coasted the last couple of miles (Old glider habits die hard even with a Firestar Rock) Luckily I lined up for the field because I waited too late to restart successfully and arrived on the runway dead stick, a tad slow and on one wheel. Stretched the wire till half the strands failed and put a real pretty bend in the leg. Dick C. St.Louis >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rick106(at)JUNO.COM
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:
Date: Aug 21, 1998
RAY The only m/3 that I know about that is up your way is around the new orleans way I think that CLIFF STRIPLING may have the guy's name and ph. # I do know that cliff went up to OK. city or close to it , you are doing the right thing try one on for size before you get in your a/c hope that this is at least some help I will keep looking RICK LIBERSAT > >Rick, Find me a Mark III within 100/125 miles of Gainesville, FL that >I can get >an hours instruction in or at least a ride. I am not looking for a >free >bee. I expect to render suitable remuneration. > >I have 2 things left on my check list before putting pen to check: 1. > Take a flight in a Mark III. It seems like the intelligent thing to >do before making such an investment. (I have been taking >refresher/transition training in a Drifter at Herlong Airport near >Jacksonville, FL) 2. Take a trip to the Kolb factory in >Phoenixville. I want to take another look at the assembled kit now >that I am serious. I have been >kicking the tires etc for the last 3 years at Fun & Sun, but at the >time >not really expecting to participate.. > >That will teach you to offer assistance! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
From: mefine1(at)JUNO.COM (Mick Fine)
> >Yikes - shutting down an engine in flight. > >I don't fly with a Rotax (don't have a Kolb yet, I'm part of this list >doing research and deciding) but I do have a Cessna 150 and I know I'd >have >a potential problem with shock cooling the engine if I did something >like >what you described..... Actually, in an UL or light experimental, it can be great fun and good practice - IMHO. You're right to be concerned about 'shock-cooling' tho. I don't know about the others but I slowly pull back to idle for at least a couple minutes before killing the ignition. Call me chicken but I prefer to do my dead-sticks in the evening after all the thermals have died out. There's a few million acres of bean fields along the Verdigris river just a few miles from where I keep the Flyer. It's perfect for this stuff, miles of beans (or wheat, or spinach, whatever's in season..) with long, straight, deserted dirt roads through them. From 3000 or 4000' agl, I can glide for 10 minutes or so with just the wind whistling through the structure. All the engine noise and vibration is gone - I love it! I pull my helmet off, take out my ear-plugs and just enjoy ('course I put the helmet back on before landing..). The Flyer is not much of a glider but I think I understand what the attraction is now. Don't know where that fits into your 'research' but maybe you can find a place! -Mick Fine Tulsa, Oklahoma http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO) http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1998
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
A: I know I'd have a potential problem with shock cooling the engine if I did something like what you described. > >I don't know if the Rotax engine would have a similar problem or not but at >first glance I'd think there's got to be something unhealthy happening to >the engine if you stop and start it in mid-flight. I womder? For years I raced Enduro bikes and it was not unusual to have those 250cc 2-strokes screaming in first or second gear in deep mud, and then stall them in a creek, and unless you got mud into the insides, it never seemed to hurt them. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42oldpoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Brian, There is nothing to fear about shutting the engine off in flight so long as it's done properly. By this I mean throttling back slowly to idle and let it run at idle for a few seconds prior to shutting down. Try it once on final when you know that you have the runway made (please use good judgement and at least a 2500' runway). With a little practice you will be shutting it off in the downwind. It's really alot of fun. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs > >Yikes - shutting down an engine in flight. > >I don't fly with a Rotax (don't have a Kolb yet, I'm part of this list >doing research and deciding) but I do have a Cessna 150 and I know I'd >have >a potential problem with shock cooling the engine if I did something >like >what you described. > >I don't know if the Rotax engine would have a similar problem or not >but at >first glance I'd think there's got to be something unhealthy happening >to >the engine if you stop and start it in mid-flight. If the big fan up >front >stops spinning (or back there in the Kolbs) I start sweating. > >Brian > > > >>>Returning from a cross country I killed the engine at 4k and coasted > the last couple of miles (Old glider habits die hard even with a >Firestar >Rock) Luckily I lined up for the field because I waited too late to >restart > successfully and arrived on the runway dead stick, a tad slow and on >one > wheel. Stretched the wire till half the strands failed and put a >real >pretty > bend in the leg. > Dick C. St.Louis >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Fabric covering material
A slight bump will leave a ding in >the finish. Are you sure you tightened the fabric enough? Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
Date: Aug 21, 1998
Hi Richard: It's my understanding that shock cooling is a result of the different expansion and contraction characteristics of various parts of the engine under rapid cooling and heating, especially air cooled engines, and more pronounced with increasing engine size. The big 540 + 550 CID Lycoming + Continentals are known for it. Water cooled engines operate in a comparatively stable environment by comparison. I believe that rapidly cutting the power on a hot engine will cause the rapidly cooling cylinder to shrink around the still hot piston. Conversley, socking the power to a cool engine, as in a touch + go landing, will cause a rapidly heating piston to expand inside a still cool cylinder, and seize it. One of the main reasons the Subaru engine is becoming so popular is that by virtue of being water cooled, it is comparatively immune to this. Can anyone critique me on this ?? I think I'm pretty close. Big Lar. ---------- > From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear > Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 8:06 PM > > > A: > I know I'd have a potential problem with shock cooling the engine if I did > something like what you described. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timandjan(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot/Static/Transponder certification
Are you tired about being asked about the wing spar failure on the RV8 yet? A bud of mine here who builds for a living and has several Grank Champions has quit building a customers RV8 cause of the problem. The plane is sure nice however. Just been reading your stuff for a while. I talked to Dennis at Oshkosh and they decided thet the 582 is perfect for the SLingshot, I built the Firestar 2 cause of the cost of the 912 for the Slingshot and now that it's not the preferred engine I wish I had the Slingshot. Just rambling. Tim in Shreveport Louisiana Firestar 2 N6246L. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timandjan(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: sailplanes
Amen. In Louisiana here I am in a sailplane club with a 222 and a 126. I have had 3- 3 hour flights in the 126 and boy is it neat. I have only done 3 total deal sticks in my Firestar 2, better put the nose down and land close. I have only done it above the grass strip and have not done it more cause it's a hassle to get out to re start. Just thought your comment was interesting so I would reply. tim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timandjan(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: sailplanes
Amen. In Louisiana here I am in a sailplane club with a 222 and a 126. I have had 3- 3 hour flights in the 126 and boy is it neat. I have only done 3 total deal sticks in my Firestar 2, better put the nose down and land close. I have only done it above the grass strip and have not done it more cause it's a hassle to get out to re start. Just thought your comment was interesting so I would reply. tim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fabric covering material
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Ron, the fabric that was included with your kit was 1.6oz D104 dacron which is very light and is the same stuff I have on mine. This fabric has 60lbs/in strength (I checked the Stits manual). I think the fabric they are using on the new FireStars has a strength of 96lbs/in which is the 2.6oz type. Our fabric is good enough for the Original FireStar, I have proven that with over 11 years of service, but you may want to do a puncture test as suggested by the group. There have been occasions where the tailbracing cable was looped around the upper tang of the fin and when I folded the tail and left it for a week, it dimpled the fabric on the stabilizer. That dimple was gone by the end of the flying day, so it's not a problem. I have ripped out the bottom once when I tried lifting it up onto a sawhorse. Other than that, I have to say the fabric is holding up very well. I can't fly because it's going to rain all day. It's been a good summer for flying, though. I have flown just about every weekend since June. Maybe I'll get a chance tomorrow. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > > >Eugene, I am delighted to hear someone reply sensibly to this >question. You reply agrees totally with my feelings, as well as my local EAA >Tech Advisor. > >It is the original fabric furnished with the Kolb kit in 1985, and has >been stored in a black plastic bag since that time. From what I >understand, this material will last almost indefinitely, even outdoors, if >properly finished with Poly-"Stuff". I now have 2-coats of Poly-Brush, >3-coats of Poly-Spray, and 3-coats of Poly-Tone. I expect the fabric to last >longer than I will, since I'm 66-years old. Its just that the finish seems >VERY fragile when touched by almost anything. A slight bump will leave a >ding in the finish. My tech-advisor says that the paint has to gas-off for >quite some time before it will get tougher. I hope so. > >Thanks for your help, > >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar >Independence, Oregon > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear/shutting it off
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 brian.p.fox(at)ac.com wrote: > Yikes - shutting down an engine in flight. ... clip > I don't know if the Rotax engine would have a similar problem or not but at > first glance I'd think there's got to be something unhealthy happening to > the engine if you stop and start it in mid-flight. If the big fan up front > stops spinning (or back there in the Kolbs) I start sweating. > > Shock cooling is something to account for. Simply run at lower rpms to go to lower temps before hitting the kill switch. I think my engine is tighter after shutting it down in flight. I can restart it if I pull right away, but wait over 20 seconds and even a big hard pull is tough to get a fast enf pull for start. BTW, i figure "tighter" is quite a bit different than "siezed". I've looked at my cylinders, etc and they're still new. Killing the engine is also something to account for, but not at all a 'yikes' situation, necessarily. In GA we get conditioned into thinking the engine is always supposed to be making noise. No engine means a declared emergency, messy pants, etc, etc. In ULs we go by 'not if but when' it will quit, and therefore, many ULers have practiced actual engine outs. Like all other learned things in aviation, it is safe if done in baby steps. Part of the diff with GA is also that ULs landing out on dirt roads, etc with or without engine running is more publicly acceptable than a C-150 doing the same. I'll admit I wouldn't be comfy killing my engine intentionally without being in easy gliding distance of a usable field. My experience in difficulty getting a mid-air restart tells me to forget about the engine and focus on flying the airplane -- er, glider -- if(when) it ever quits unexpectedly. I guess the motor-glider guys new all this in the first place. Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:
From: rbaker2(at)JUNO.COM (Ray L Baker)
Hi Rick, Thanks for your response. A kolb-lister from Ocala, FL (65 miles) has offered to take me up in his Mark II, which should serve my purpose. All that remains is to coordinate a date and time. Florida weather being what it is at this time of the year it may take us a while. Meantime, I continue to terrorise a FI in his Drifter! Ray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: removing gap seal
Date: Aug 22, 1998
One of the things that I hate to do when taking my firestar down for storing is the gap seal between the wings. I have a clear lexan piece that is velcroed down to the wings. There is also a alum. piece that is bent to fit the leading edge of the wing and then a bungie cord to make sure it stays in place and not peel back over the engine. I suspect that it is pretty standard. Anyway it has always been a pain to take off. There are grooves and indentions for things like the pull starter and other cables. The only easy way has been to get a step ladder to get me high enough so that I can keep it from resticking,( too much trouble) or go to the back and turn the prop to the verticle and grab the ends on both sides and lift and pull. I'm of course not real happy about that, because sooner or later I am going to have to reglue the velcro. This morning after a flight and coming up on that unpleasant chore it occurred to me that a piece of the paper towels that I use to clean after a flight could be placed between the velcro pieces and would make it easy to take off. DUH!!!! Just in case There are others who are also a little slow- here it is. Larry ---------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing Gear/shutting it off
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Ben Ransom where have you been man? Out of the country? Ralph writes: > > >On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 brian.p.fox(at)ac.com wrote: >> Yikes - shutting down an engine in flight. >... clip >> I don't know if the Rotax engine would have a similar problem or not >but at >> first glance I'd think there's got to be something unhealthy >happening to >> the engine if you stop and start it in mid-flight. If the big fan up >front >> stops spinning (or back there in the Kolbs) I start sweating. >> >> >Shock cooling is something to account for. Simply run at lower rpms >to >go to lower temps before hitting the kill switch. I think my engine >is >tighter after shutting it down in flight. I can restart it if I pull >right away, but wait over 20 seconds and even a big hard pull is tough >to >get a fast enf pull for start. BTW, i figure "tighter" is quite a bit >different than "siezed". I've looked at my cylinders, etc and they're >still new. > >Killing the engine is also something to account for, but not at all a >'yikes' situation, necessarily. In GA we get conditioned into >thinking >the engine is always supposed to be making noise. No engine means a >declared emergency, messy pants, etc, etc. > >In ULs we go by 'not if but when' it will quit, and therefore, many >ULers >have practiced actual engine outs. Like all other learned things in >aviation, it is safe if done in baby steps. Part of the diff with >GA is also that ULs landing out on dirt roads, etc with or without >engine running is more publicly acceptable than a C-150 doing the >same. >I'll admit I wouldn't be comfy killing my engine intentionally without >being in easy gliding distance of a usable field. My experience in >difficulty getting a mid-air restart tells me to forget about the >engine >and focus on flying the airplane -- er, glider -- if(when) it ever >quits unexpectedly. > >I guess the motor-glider guys new all this in the first place. > > Ben Ransom > http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
In a message dated 8/21/98 11:12:23 PM, larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net wrote: <> Water cooling does not guarantee freedom from seizures, it just creates a different set of circumstances to watch out for. The Rotax 582, for reasons I cannot fathom, is not shipped from the factory with a thermostat. If you pull the power on a long glide to final and let the water in the radiator cool off, then open the throttle suddenly to go around you risk a seizure mode where the cold water from the radiator rushes into the head and cools, (read shrinks) the cylinder, just at the time the piston is expanding from the full power load. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: 2nd time up and how to move about
From: asviolett(at)JUNO.COM (Adam S Violett)
Hi all On my second day of Flying the Firestar I had tremendous success. Some time with a BFI to get used to 3 axis made all the difference. Has anyone come up with a good way of getting a hold on the folded plane to push/pull it around? I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. Adam Violett asviolett(at)juno.com Sec, Treas, Newsletter - K.C. Flyers USUA #81 about 3 hrs. now, Original Firestar ___|___ _________0_________ /<>\ 0----0 Blue Skies & Happy Landings! Adam ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: Landing Gear/shutting it off
I need some advice from any experts we may have on antenna/radio wave propagation/ signal radiation etc.. I'm going to peel the braided shielding from about the last 23" of a piece of RG-58U co-ax and try to use it for an antenna. I plan to thread it through some lexan clips epoxied (sp?) to the interior of my FireFly Nose cone. The braid that I peel of will be connected to a ground plane or used as a di-pole. Comments, suggestions appreciated... Duane Mitchell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
> Has anyone come up with a good way of getting a hold on the folded plane > to push/pull it around? > I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the > plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. Wing tips are it....unless you build a tailwheel dolly. One of the things you should be doing is bracing the wing root leading edge tubes with a cross piece.....a section of pvc pipe with two spaced holes for the tubes works nicely. Prevents a torsional load from being applied to the rear fuselage wing support tube. J. Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna
I think a better way would be to put a small gnd plane forward of pedals and install at BNC jack in it, pointing out or at an angle as great as 90 degrees to the ground straight down as possible. Then make a 23" or so "whip" out of stiff. hard copper wire and solder it into a BNC plug. Secure it with epoxy in plug. Can be taken off/replaced easily.Inside, run RG from ant jack to radio. This is what I plan to do when I get time from retirement duty! Epoxying ant flat to nose cone, especially with the dielectric still on coax may upset the impedance of the antenna. If you had asked me 50 years ago, I could have given a bettermaybe more accurate answer. EE'49 Grey Baron. Open to better answers. Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
In a message dated 8/22/98 8:53:43 PM, you wrote: << I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the > plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. >> Give dennis a call. I had a real problem moving my folded mark three around. I was afraid I would either scrape the fabric on the leading edge or put a hole in the fabric on the wing tip. I made a crude sketch of a fork like thing to stick in the back of the fuse tube and then carry it around by that. Dennis and Mike, (a thousand thanks to both) considerably improved on my idea and welded one up for me. IT WORKS GREAT. Call them up maybe you can talk them into selling you one. The important thing it that it is a real help in moving a folded plane safely. And it is MUCH easier. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
>I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the >plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. >Adam Violett asviolett(at)juno.com >Sec, Treas, Newsletter - K.C. Flyers USUA #81 Since you have already built your wings it is a bit more difficult to get a built in system.What you can still do is uncover the ends of the trailing edge tubes. When you have the wings folded slip a 1" dia x 2' tube into these exposed holes and you have a couple nice handles for moving things around. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
From: Adrio Taucer <adrio(at)capitalnet.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna
I agree with this approach, got for the bulkhead connector that the RG attaches to that way you have one less connector. One "trick" I learned a long time ago (not as long ago as Bob, me EE was 85) is to use a stainless whip cut to proper length to give you a matched antenna (I assume you are going for a 1/4 wave Mraconi antenna over a ground plane). Then the trick is to use a diameter of whip the same size (or larger) than the little pin that forms the "male" part of the BNC connector. now what you do is throw out that little pin and turn down (if you used a larger diameter wire or if the same you can leave it) to the diameter the pin would have been. Now put the connector together and you have no solder joint or change in diameter to introduce problems down the road (or reflections for those that are real picky). I use this trick for my Ham antennas on the car, but up here we have salt to give us grief all winter. Adrio bob n wrote: > > > I think a better way would be to put a small gnd plane forward of pedals > and install at BNC jack in it, pointing out or at an angle as great as > 90 degrees to the ground straight down as possible. Then make a 23" or > so "whip" out of stiff. hard copper wire and solder it into a BNC plug. > Secure it with epoxy in plug. Can be taken off/replaced easily.Inside, > run RG from ant jack to radio. This is what I plan to do when I get time > from retirement duty! > > Epoxying ant flat to nose cone, especially with the dielectric still on > coax may upset the impedance of the antenna. If you had asked me 50 > years ago, I could have given a bettermaybe more accurate answer. > EE'49 Grey Baron. Open to better answers. > Grey Baron > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
writes: >Hi all >On my second day of Flying the Firestar I had tremendous success. Some >time with a BFI to get used to 3 axis made all the difference. >Has anyone come up with a good way of getting a hold on the folded >plane to push/pull it around? >I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the >plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing >tips. Adam I use a snall 8" triangluar dolly. it has a swivle caster on each point, and is indented in the center, of which I put the tail wheel in. This works for hard surfaces. Got it at a hardware store, where castors/wheels/ and dollies were sold. For grass surfaces, a guy at our field made a tow bar out of 2 wheels,a handle and to pieces of angle iron, that come up when pivoted an hook on to the tailwheel bracket. Bob D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 1998
Subject: gap-seal
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
My gap seal is made with laxan and aluminum leading edge also. I tried using velcro also, but wasn't satisfied with it either. My fix was to use a camlock on either side of the leading edge and the gap seal, this holds the gap seal in position. At the back of the gap seal, I have a piece of lexan set vertically.This holds it tight to the wing. It is attached at the top by riveting the lexan together with aluminum angle and aluminum rivets. The bottom with angle and cam locks. So with a half twist on 4 cam locks, the gap seal pops right off. But can't come off in flight. Hopes this gives you some ideas. Bob D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: removing gap seal
On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Larry & Karen Cottrel wrote: > fit the leading edge of the wing and then a bungie cord to make sure it > stays in place and not peel back over the engine. I suspect that it is > pretty standard. Anyway it has always been a pain to take off. There are > grooves and indentions for things like the pull starter and other cables. > The only easy way has been to get a step ladder to get me high enough so > that I can keep it from resticking,( too much trouble) or go to the back I just tolerate this as a minor hassle. I've gotten into the habit of stepping up on the tire, then side cockpit tube to reach back over top of wing at the engine area. Works fine. I place a rag on the side cockpit tube to protect its finish. BTW, I've sat up there (facing backward) with engine at idle to dink around with idle mixture. Not bad ...hmmm, I wonder how this would be as a flying seat? Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "friend" <friend(at)bright.net>
Subject: moving fs2 folded
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Adam I made atow bar that is spring loaded and fits into both sides of tailwheel cross tube where S hooks go in 1/4 bolts willslid past hooks I can push,pukl,turn the folded plane. Duane Zollinger fs2 75rhs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna
Yeah, Andrio, the replacing of the original BNC pin is great, but gotta turn it down=lathe work. I don't have a metal-turning lathe, and have trouble going to local machine shop that turns BIG stuff and asking for that teeny work. My suggestion of "back-filling the original cable end with epoxy fixes the salt-intrusion problem as well making ant very strong. If it busts, just whip out another. And I'm mindful of impedance "lumps," also. And what are you doing for CD hash problem? 73s K4JMG aka Grey Baron aka Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
From: herb87(at)JUNO.COM (HERBERT L JOHNSON)
Hi Adam, We took an old broomstick about 4 ft. long and drilled a hole to insert a bolt of appropriate length and size to fit in the tail wheel housing. We can guide and push very effectively. Hope this helps. Herb writes: >Hi all >On my second day of Flying the Firestar I had tremendous success. Some >time with a BFI to get used to 3 axis made all the difference. >Has anyone come up with a good way of getting a hold on the folded >plane to push/pull it around? >I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the >plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing >tips. >Adam Violett asviolett(at)juno.com >Sec, Treas, Newsletter - K.C. Flyers USUA #81 >about 3 hrs. now, Original Firestar > ___|___ >_________0_________ > /<>\ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Wilde" <jeffwilde(at)mpinet.net>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
Date: Aug 23, 1998
I would be interested in knowing what this thing looks like. Jeff in Oviedo. ---------- > From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: 2nd time up and how to move about > Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 9:27 PM > > > > In a message dated 8/22/98 8:53:43 PM, you wrote: > > << I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the > > plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. > >> > > Give dennis a call. I had a real problem moving my folded mark three around. > I was afraid I would either scrape the fabric on the leading edge or put a > hole in the fabric on the wing tip. I made a crude sketch of a fork like > thing to stick in the back of the fuse tube and then carry it around by that. > Dennis and Mike, (a thousand thanks to both) considerably improved on my idea > and welded one up for me. IT WORKS GREAT. Call them up maybe you can talk > them into selling you one. The important thing it that it is a real help in > moving a folded plane safely. And it is MUCH easier. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: Christopher John Armstrong <tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: gap-seal
HI everybody My plans for my gap seal are to make it a permanent part of the fuselag and have it just touch the wings in the flying position with rubber sealing material. In theory I will be able to fold the wings without removing the gasp seal at all. the wings will drop down and out, away from the rubber gasket. If I ever get to that stage I will let you all know how it works. I got a job doing CAD drawings for the powersport rotary engine, since they just moved to Osceola WI, My town, and are setting up for production, so not much time to work on the plane, but real fun job! Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com>
Subject: have a Mark III for sale?
Autoforwarded: false UA-content-id: 11C8BBB01100 Hop-count: 1 I am looking to buy a Mark III and accompanying trailer. If you have both or either and are interested, please call or e-mail. If you are near the the southern california area, thats a plus, but I am willing to travel for a decent deal. Thanks, Erich Weaver 805-683-3337 hm 805-683-0228 wk sbaew(at)dames.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Leoniron(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: subscribe
leoniron(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: gap-seal
Hi Chrisliked your gap seal idea and am looking forward to see it. Have FireFly I had three NSU Wankel cars, single rotor, built in '62. Still have the two rotor RO-80 with two rotors. Fine engine in principle, but early ones stunk! Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: It mocks me- R&D pipe
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Hello again, Well, I went to the airport today armed with a pair of 162 jets, and my old Rotax muffler. The plan was to look at the plugs and see if they really did look like the engine was running lean. If so, install the larger jets, if not, re-install the old Rotax muffler. Well, by golly they were almost white, and I'm probably lucky I (I mean the engine) didn't have a seizure on my last hops around the pattern. I proceeded to install the new jets, waited for it to stop raining, then pushed the plane out and tied it up. With clearing weather, calm winds, and a renewed hope for extra power, I gave the starter a mighty yank. The rope broke Russell Duffy Navarre, FL Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale- bring rope) RV-8, 80587 (wing skins) rad(at)pen.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Antennas
Hey Gang: I use an ELT antenna for my VHF. They cost about $25.00, are much lighter than standard SS aviation VHF whips, and much cheaper. I have never had a complaint about my ability to xmit, and I receive well, as well as my infantry, special forces, helicopter pilot ears allow me to. They come with a bnc connector already attached. Mine has seen more than 1200 hrs and 6 years of hard use with no problem. They are cut 23-24 inches and tuned for 121.5, so that is close enough for me since that is the area of the freq band I operate around. john h PS: I have about recuperated from my flight to, at, and from OSH. Stayed busy this year at OSH, only made one trip to the main area, that was enough. Glad I got to meet a bunch of you guys while I was there, now I can put faces with emails. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: Loose pins--Easy fix
Hi Guys, Been reading about the loose fitting strut pins. I also took care in drilling the holes, knowing that it is easy to have a hole get enlarged, especially using a hand drill. At first the pins seemed to fit really good. Not tight mind you, but with very little play. But after about 20 flights, they did become a little looser. I wanted to tighten it up just a little more and discovered that there are AN bolts called CLOSE TOLERANCE. I got a few of these, cut off the threaded ends and chamfered them a little to facilitate getting them into the holes, then drilled holes for the safety pins. These bolts are just a bit tighter fitting, in fact on two of them I could hardly get them in, but after a few times they fit OK. This has effectively eliminated most of the play and it hasn't gotten any worse since. I fold my wings for storage after every flight and I just counted up the flights in my log book which now totals 210. So there is an easy fix, if the loose play isn't too much. Bill Varnes Original FireStar 377 @ 280 hrs. Audubon, NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: Re: gap-seal
Will the full width permanent gap seal make installing the wing pins difficult? Dick C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ULDAD(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: Life with Rotax (sorta long)
Hi all: Don't know if y'all remember it or not but a while back I wrote about a problem I was having with my 447. From cruise rpm (56-5800) the engine would start to loose power and the egt would head toward 1200. Pull back on the power, let things settle down and the engine would run fine for a while then do the same thing. First I inspected the entire fuel system. Replaced fuel filter, primer bulb, rebuilt fuel pump, rebuilt carb, replaced pulse line to fuel pump. All of this to no avail. Bought and installed a new carb. The old one came with my original 377 and had plenty of hours on it. Worked great for an hour then started doing the same thing again. If it ain't in the fuel system, then the engine must be sucking air. The engine had 260 hrs. on it so I sent it to Greensky hoping they would find bad crankshaft seals or leaking case halves. The engine checked out fine. The crank seals looked like they were getting old and they found one place where the case halves might have been leaking. Put engine back on the airframe, flew for about 15 min. and it did the same damn thing! I'd run out of things to do. I was down to the exhaust and the CDI box. To hell with it, I went to OSH. Came back and, of course, the engine still didn't work. While at OSK, for lack of anyother idea, I'd bought a new fuel pump (although I'd rebuilt the old one). So, before starting to fool with the CDI and muffler, I tried the new fuel pump. IT WORKED FINE and has been working fine for the four hours. Moral of the story: I ain't rebuilding no more fuel pumps!!! For $20 or so dollars I'm going to just buy a new one every year or two. Everything about the old fuel pump looks good. It just don't work. This "learning experience" has cost me around $600. But my engine/fuel system has had a complete overhaul. There's not many things major that I could do to my A-65 for $600. So I keep telling myself that's it all relative. Spend that $$$$ and keep flying!! Bill Griffin Glad to have my Kolb flying again ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ULDAD(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: Fwd: Life with Rotax (sorta long)
From: ULDAD(at)aol.com Subject: Life with Rotax (sorta long) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:39:47 EDT Hi all: Don't know if y'all remember it or not but a while back I wrote about a problem I was having with my 447. From cruise rpm (56-5800) the engine would start to loose power and the egt would head toward 1200. Pull back on the power, let things settle down and the engine would run fine for a while then do the same thing. First I inspected the entire fuel system. Replaced fuel filter, primer bulb, rebuilt fuel pump, rebuilt carb, replaced pulse line to fuel pump. All of this to no avail. Bought and installed a new carb. The old one came with my original 377 and had plenty of hours on it. Worked great for an hour then started doing the same thing again. If it ain't in the fuel system, then the engine must be sucking air. The engine had 260 hrs. on it so I sent it to Greensky hoping they would find bad crankshaft seals or leaking case halves. The engine checked out fine. The crank seals looked like they were getting old and they found one place where the case halves might have been leaking. Put engine back on the airframe, flew for about 15 min. and it did the same damn thing! I'd run out of things to do. I was down to the exhaust and the CDI box. To hell with it, I went to OSH. Came back and, of course, the engine still didn't work. While at OSK, for lack of anyother idea, I'd bought a new fuel pump (although I'd rebuilt the old one). So, before starting to fool with the CDI and muffler, I tried the new fuel pump. IT WORKED FINE and has been working fine for the four hours. Moral of the story: I ain't rebuilding no more fuel pumps!!! For $20 or so dollars I'm going to just buy a new one every year or two. Everything about the old fuel pump looks good. It just don't work. This "learning experience" has cost me around $600. But my engine/fuel system has had a complete overhaul. There's not many things major that I could do to my A-65 for $600. So I keep telling myself that's it all relative. Spend that $$$$ and keep flying!! Bill Griffin Glad to have my Kolb flying again ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Shock Cooling
> >Hi Richard: It's my understanding that shock cooling is a result of >the different expansion and contraction characteristics of various parts of >the engine under rapid cooling and heating, especially air cooled engines, >and more pronounced with increasing engine size. The big 540 + 550 CID >Lycoming + Continentals are known for it. Water cooled engines operate in >a comparatively stable environment by comparison. I believe that rapidly >cutting the power on a hot engine will cause the rapidly cooling cylinder >to shrink around the still hot piston. Conversley, socking the power to a >cool engine, as in a touch + go landing, will cause a rapidly heating >piston to expand inside a still cool cylinder, and seize it. One of the >main reasons the Subaru engine is becoming so popular is that by virtue of >being water cooled, it is comparatively immune to this. Can anyone >critique me on this ?? I think I'm pretty close. Big Lar. > >- You are perfectly correct. Saturday morning I had to make a rapid descent from 5000' to get below traffic while descending into my strip. (There is a NASCAR race at Bristol that night, and the Kingairs and Learjets were flocking in, TRI approach was BUSY, glad I was off). The water temp never got below 140. You are correct about a rapidly cooling cylinder shrinking around a hot piston, however, if you kill the engine completely, and the piston isn't moving, what will it hurt? Unless there is some reason that it would warp or distort, why would it hurt it? Comments, anybody? Once you land, you need to crank it back up and reheat it before you can take off, I used to practice deadsticks in my Hummer, Rotax 277, and it took a bit before it was ready for takeoff power. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42oldpoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 1998
Subject: gap-seal
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
Ron #1:My gap seal is 19.5" wide, roughly .75" overlap onto wing on both sides. #2:Aluminum is on leading edge only(over leading edge tube). From the back bottom edge of aluminum to the front of the curve is 2.25".The rest is on top of airfoil. The 2 cam-locs are 3" from the edge. #3: The lexan does not wrap around leading edge. It overlaps aluminum by 1". I should say it goes under the aluminum and is riveted in place with aluminum rivets every 2". #4: the bottom piece of lexan extends back from aluminum 11". On the back of this lexan I have a .75"X.75" X.0625" aluminum angle 14.5" long, centered approx. 2.5" from both sides. Thru this goes the other 2 cam-locs. #5:The top piece of lexan extends back 16"(don't forget you need 1 more inch for overlap) At 12" back from aluminum you have the piece that comes down and attaches the gap seal top & bottom together. This piece of lexan is 14.5" long by 7 " high.It is mounted approx. 2.5" from the side of the top lexan. Using another piece of 14.5" aluminum angle, rivet top of gap seal and this vertical piece to together. At the bottom of this vertical piece of lexan, rivet another aluminum angle. This is what the bottom cam-locs will lock to. #6: Looking at the gap-seal from the side, it should look like the airfoil of your wing . With the top portion extending back another 4" further than the bottom. This is configured for my FS II with my BRS top side. You may want to do yours differently. But this works for me. If this isn't clear, give me a call. Bob Doebler 818-348-7075 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: earfull-of-mail(at)JUNO.COM
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
Hi, This is Glen Huffaker and I have been reading some of the messages here for a couple months, I am sorry that my first post to the list will be about a crash my father, Gene had just last Saturday at Garden Valley Idaho. We went with a ultralight club here in Boise, our first X-country with the Kolb, In the preflight, my dad noticed that the header pipe for the muffler was cracked slightly, (a 447 Rotax engine, only one joint on the muffler) someone else looked at it, we thought it would hold, and the pipe did not have to support anything. I herd that the muffler should have two joints to reduce the stress and ours looked like it was broke before and welded at the point where another joint should go. That would be a simple fix that would have prevented a crash. It started great, I was the ground crew, and arrived just as they were touching down. My dad told me the muffler pipe broke clean in half, but he did not have any problem landing, we knew we couldn't go any further until we could patch it or fix it. We had some hose claps and wrapped the pipe with a piece of metal can, it looked like it would hold. He started it up and made a test run, while I went with someone else for a loop in their two seater. when he came around to land, he noticed the CHT was getting high, 1,800. and he could not control the engine rpm, he landed with low power, right before the runway in soft dirt, the dirt slowed him quick and the tail came up, and the whole thing FLIPPED UPSIDE DOWN. I saw it from above, what the heck, the CG is so far forward that landing on unpaved ground is difficult if not impossible to keep the tail down. Luckily, he was not hurt badly, but he'll have to wear a sling for two weeks because he fractured his shoulder blade bone. The Firestar did well, it sustained minimal damage to the stitz covering when pieces of the prop shot through the aileron and wing, no real structural damage, it's built tough. several people helped lift it up by the wings, and turn it right side up. Can anyone shed some light on the forward CG problem of the firestar even with a 150 lb. passenger? And why is it built so you can't land the darn thing in the grass or soft dirt. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Loose pins--Easy fix
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Thanks for the idea. KISS, right ?? Big Lar. From: WVarnes(at)aol.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Loose pins--Easy fix > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 8:01 PM > > > Hi Guys, > > Been reading about the loose fitting strut pins. I also took care in drilling > the holes, knowing that it is easy to have a hole get enlarged, especially > using a hand drill. At first the pins seemed to fit really good. Not tight > mind you, but with very little play. But after about 20 flights, they did > become a little looser. > > I wanted to tighten it up just a little more and discovered that there are AN > bolts called CLOSE TOLERANCE. I got a few of these, cut off the threaded ends > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It mocks me- R&D pipe
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Oh Man - - - - After all the suspense and anticipation. You're baaaad !!! Take it easy with that mighty right next time. Where do you live that it rains so much ?? Big Lar. ---------- > From: Russell Duffy <rad(at)pen.net> > To: Kolb list > Subject: Kolb-List: It mocks me- R&D pipe > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 5:54 PM > > > Hello again, > > Well, I went to the airport today armed with a pair of 162 jets, and my old > Rotax muffler. The plan was to look at the plugs and see if they really did > look like the engine was running lean. If so, install the larger jets, if not, > re-install the old Rotax muffler. Well, by golly they were almost white, and > I'm probably lucky I (I mean the engine) didn't have a seizure on my last hops > around the pattern. > > I proceeded to install the new jets, waited for it to stop raining, then pushed > the plane out and tied it up. With clearing weather, calm winds, and a renewed > hope for extra power, I gave the starter a mighty yank. The rope broke > > > > Russell Duffy > Navarre, FL > Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale- bring rope) > RV-8, 80587 (wing skins) > rad(at)pen.net > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: gap-seal
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Has anyone heard anything pro or con about the new ones that are supposed to be coming available from Germany ?? Power to weight should be great. That BD-5 outfit in San Diego has what looks like a really good rotary - a real lightweight screamer, but they want over $10,000 for it. Ouch. Big Lar ---------- > From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gap-seal > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 5:35 PM > > > > I had three NSU Wankel cars, single rotor, built in '62. Still have the > two rotor RO-80 with two rotors. Fine engine in principle, but early > ones stunk! Grey Baron > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cpeterhu(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: It mocks me- R&D pipe
good story....good luck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Antennas
Date: Aug 24, 1998
On the subject of antennas. I am experiencing great reception and antenna (Rubber Duckie Style) $9.95. Used a BNC adapter to plug the antenna in. Unsurpassed performance thus far by the other three Kolbs on the field (IMHO). Just a little engine noise at 6,000 rpm. I mounted the antenna under the fibergalss nose cone. Dunane is looking for an internal antenna for loading his craft on his trailer w/o catching anything. Rut Fuller 25.5 hours Tallahassee, Florida ----Original Message Follows---- Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:00:58 -0500 From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Antennas Hey Gang: I use an ELT antenna for my VHF. They cost about $25.00, are much lighter than standard SS aviation VHF whips, and much cheaper. I have never had a complaint about my ability to xmit, and I receive well, as well as my infantry, special forces, helicopter pilot ears allow me to. They come with a bnc connector already attached. Mine has seen more than 1200 hrs and 6 years of hard use with no problem. They are cut 23-24 inches and tuned for 121.5, so that is close enough for me since that is the area of the freq band I operate around. john h PS: I have about recuperated from my flight to, at, and from OSH. Stayed busy this year at OSH, only made one trip to the main area, that was enough. Glad I got to meet a bunch of you guys while I was there, now I can put faces with emails. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: "Jhann G." <johann.g(at)centrum.is>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
Hi Adam and List members. I wanted to comment on the ground handling of a folded Firestar II. I made a special T-bar to be able to handle the plane on the ground, and also strap it on a trailer, with the tail wheel of the ground. This T is made from squared material, the same as would be used for building an enclosed trailer. (not sure of what you call this metal, but it is just a standard frame material. Sorry I'm just a foreigner) The T has two hooks welded on the T and made from solid bar. They hook around the gear legs. I used a garden hose to protect the gear legs from the bear metal. Then the T is laying on the ground under the unfolded aircraft, but hooked on the gear legs. In front of the stabilizer, there is a pedestal support for the tail boom, as subscribed in the Kolb plans. On the T just under the pedestal, I do have two small wheels, to avoid the T from scraping the floor, if inside a hanger, being rolled straight forward or back. The T extends under the tail and under the tail wheel, approx. 6" back, where there is a handle bar, so that you can grip the T and lift the tail up, and walk with it, with the wings folded. By using the pedestal under the tail boom, you do have a better clearance from the ground, to insert the pins for the wing folding. When folding the wings, I start with connecting the T bar to the landing gear legs, lift the tail on the support, and then fold the wings. Works great. The plan is to make a tow bar on two large wheels, where it will lift the T approx. 3-4" from the ground, so that I do not have to lift it myself. The back is still good, but I would like to keep it that way for as long as possible. I hope this explanation of my T bar is clear enough so that you may get the general idea. If not, I could get a picture of it and send it to the list, or anyone who is interested. Best regards, Johann G. Iceland. > Has anyone come up with a good way of getting a hold of the wing tips. > Snip. > Adam Violett asviolett(at)juno.com > Sec, Treas, Newsletter - K.C. Flyers USUA #81 > about 3 hrs. now, Original Firestar > ___|___ > _________0_________ > /<>\ > 0----0 > Blue Skies & Happy Landings! Adam > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: It mocks me- R&D pipe
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Russell: is it worth all the aggravation for a couple more horses galloping in your engine. P.S. get a starter, it's easier. Just messin with you Frank > ---------- > From: Russell Duffy[SMTP:rad(at)pen.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 1998 8:54 PM > To: Kolb list > Subject: Kolb-List: It mocks me- R&D pipe > > > Hello again, > > Well, I went to the airport today armed with a pair of 162 jets, and > my old > Rotax muffler. The plan was to look at the plugs and see if they > really did > look like the engine was running lean. If so, install the larger > jets, if not, > re-install the old Rotax muffler. Well, by golly they were almost > white, and > I'm probably lucky I (I mean the engine) didn't have a seizure on my > last hops > around the pattern. > > I proceeded to install the new jets, waited for it to stop raining, > then pushed > the plane out and tied it up. With clearing weather, calm winds, and > a renewed > hope for extra power, I gave the starter a mighty yank. The rope > broke > > > > Russell Duffy > Navarre, FL > Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale- bring rope) > RV-8, 80587 (wing skins) > rad(at)pen.net > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
Adam, This summer, I did the same thing as Herb for my Firestar II. It is heavier than the original Firestar. For my tow-bar I used a plastic shovel handel and a length of 1.5" aluminum (for looks), and a bolt with the head cut off. I use it to pull the plane backward into the hanger. The only modification to the plane was to tap a tapered pin in the tail where the S-hook attaches, to allow clearance for the bolt (now pin). John Jung > > > Hi Adam, > We took an old broomstick about 4 ft. long and drilled a hole to insert > a bolt of > appropriate length and size to fit in the tail wheel housing. We can > guide and push > very effectively. Hope this helps. > Herb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
I have been working hard trying to fully stall my newly built Original Firestar 377. Power off I get burbles at 36 indicated and one wing begins to drop. I can add oppisite aileron pressure and continue to add back pressure until full aft at 26 indicated where the plane stays tail low and simply decends. The same for power on stalls at 5800 rpm. Burbles start at 32 indicated instead with a more destinct nose high, tail low at 26 indicated full aft stick and aileron input. I am currently waiting for another escort to continue tests. I like to have a buddy in the air with me--security blanket, when I practice these stalls. I would like comments and suggestions as well as experiences from others. Thanks, Rutledge Fuller 25.5 hrs. Tallahassee, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: It mocks me- R&D pipe
Rusty, It is good that you can see the humor in this and even better that you share it. Thanks and I wish you "better" luck. John Jung > >Russell Duffy wrote: snip.. > I proceeded to install the new jets, waited for it to stop raining, then pushed > the plane out and tied it up. With clearing weather, calm winds, and a renewed > hope for extra power, I gave the starter a mighty yank. The rope broke snip.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
Glen, I can't explain what happened but I can shed light on the "nose over" characteristics of the original Firestar and the Firestar II. As far as I am concerned, neither plane has a problem. I have handed in the rough, short of the runway, dragged the gear through soybeans, and hit my brakes too hard. As long as there is airspeed and the stick is back, Firestars resist tipping forward very well. If the tires hit some strong resistance without the stick being back, then there could be a problem. John Jung > > Hi, This is Glen Huffaker and I have been reading some of the messages snip... > Can anyone shed some light on the forward CG problem of the firestar > even with a 150 lb. passenger? And why is it built so you can't land > the darn thing in the grass or soft dirt. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: It mocks me- R&D pipe
Date: Aug 24, 1998
>Oh Man - - - - After all the suspense and anticipation. You're baaaad >!!! Take it easy with that mighty right next time. Where do you live that >it rains so much ?? Big Lar. "Sunny" Florida :-) Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Stephen Murnyack <murnyack(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Re: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
earfull-of-mail(at)JUNO.COM wrote: > the Kolb, In the preflight, my dad noticed that the header pipe for the > muffler was cracked slightly, > touching down. My dad told me the muffler pipe broke clean in half, but > until we could patch it or fix it. We had some hose claps and wrapped > the pipe with a piece of metal can, it looked like it would hold. He > when he came around to land, he noticed the CHT was getting high, 1,800. > and he could not control the engine rpm, he landed with low power, right > Can anyone shed some light on the forward CG problem of the firestar I don't know about anyone else but, I don't think the biggest problem here had anything to do with forward CG. Later... Stephen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
Wow Glen: The decision making process your father used in deciding to fly his firestar under the circumstances you describe was extraordinarily bad, and displays many fundamental misuderstandings of how two stroke engines work. First, and perhaps easiest, you don't fly airplanes with known serious engine problems. The exhaust system of a two stroke is a critical part of the engine. It's not like a four stroke where where the muffler just keeps the noise in. The back pressure in a rotax is key to producing power and controlling temps. The egts on my mark two went nuts once and I finally traced the problem to a hairline crack on the muffler that only opened up at temperature. In your favor I will say that the old style two piece muffler was prone to all sorts of cracking and the Kolb design for hanging it had to be executed just right to work well. The only forced landing I ever had in my mark two resulted from a situation more or less like the one you describe. The decision to attempt a field repair with sheet metal from a coke can and some screw clamps was so unspeakably bad I'm amazed that the other folks you were flying with didn't say something. If I recall correctly aluminum, depending on the alloy, melts somewhere around 1000 degrees. You might as well have wrapped your exhaust header with whole wheat bread. I think everybody on the list tries hard to be polite and constructive. Please forgive me if I sound like I'm coming down hard, but I'd count your father real lucky. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Rutledge, My suggestion is never use full (or any?) aileron at stall. You are asking to enter a spin. I was taught to use the rudder to keep the wings level near stall. Also your description does not sound like either of the Firestars that I have stalled. The power on is similar, except I only see a few miles and hour between burble and stall. The nose only lowers, but not even to level and it starts climbing again. On power off, the stall occurs at the same speed, with little or no warning, and the nose drops significantly. With engine off, there is no warning at all, a significant drop of the nose. My planes have not had a tendancy to drop a wing in or near stall. Here is a guess: If you have a forward CG, you may not have enough up elevator to get a full stall. John Jung > > > I have been working hard trying to fully stall my newly built Original > Firestar 377. snip.. > I would like comments and suggestions as well as experiences from > others. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: swultra <swultra(at)primenet.com>
Subject: 2100D
Hi all, I was looking thru the sept. kitplanes mag. at all the nice kolbs and saw larry fuller,s plane and was wondering what the 2100D engine is. thanks, steve ward mark-3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Rutledge, My suggestion is never use full (or any?) aileron at stall. You are asking to enter a spin. I was taught to use the rudder to keep the wings level near stall. I would like someone to ellaborate on this more. I am a little confused. Here is a guess: If you have a forward CG, you may not have enough up elevator to get a full stall. This is a good point. In either case, I need to spend some more time expolring the issue in flight. Keep the suggestions flowing. Thanks. Rut ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: gap-seal
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Christopher John Armstrong wrote: > My plans for my gap seal are to make it a permanent part of the fuselag > and have it just touch the wings in the flying position with rubber Nice idea. I've contemplated it too. One of the hurdles in designing this is for the downward angle of the wing when it is being unfolded. When the wing tip is resting on the ground, the bottom of the root rib is in closer to the fuselage than it would be in the normal wing position. Maybe this simply requires a bigger piece of rubber for the seal. Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Charles Henry <chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
>I am having a diffucult time figuring out a convient and safe for the >plane method. It just does'nt seem right to grab a hold of the wing tips. Adam I just use a 3' length of a tiedown strap and hook the end on the tailwheel then press on the end of the wing trailing edge tube when lifting the tail to swing or roll the plane. I just pack the strap and the two 18" pins for the wing fold fittings when I fly to another airport and there is a chance it may need to be folded for overnight. Charles Henry Hankinson ND FSI, 130 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
John, in reading your letter my attention was drawn to your remark "you may not have enough up elevator to get a full stall." Yesterday I finally got the plane somewhat together for the first time. We started the engine and got into the Rotax break-in procedure. Of course the high thrust line made the tail try to come up, so I pulled back on the stick only to see that the elevator BARELY raised about the horizontal. After the break-in I had my wife hold back on the stick while I pressed down on the elevator. It EASILY pressed down to level! It was almost like the cable is made of bungee material. I could not see anything that was moving, shifting, or bending anywhere. The only thing I can imagine is that the cables aren't tight enough, but I don't really know how tight to make them. They seemed quite tight to me when installed. I have some adjustment left in the turn-buckles, so I'll try that today. The only other problems I had during the break-in were the engine seeming to ever-rev. My digital tach read as high as 7400 rpm during the full throttle portions. If the tach is correct then I will probably have to get a ground adjustable prop to replace the wood prop (66X28) that came with the kit. The other problem was the rpm was hard to maintain. It would drift around and, making changes nearly impossible. I hated to hear the talk this morning about the two-piece exhaust system on the older planes. This sounds like the one I have. More problems in the future? The last thing I discovered yesterday was that I don't fit in the cockpit. I've never had everything together before, so didn't realize just how small the cockpit really is. I'm not tall, just 5'10", but my head, without a helmet on, sticks into the lower part of the wing (where the gap seal will go) about 2". I either have to semi-recline, or put a large round hole in the gap seal. I can't move around enough for good visibility. I was worried about not being able to reach the rudder pedals, but in the position I'll have to assume, I have to bend my knees up to keep from pressing too hard. Very disappointing! This may not remain in the family too long. Ron Carroll ] -----Original Message----- From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> Date: Monday August 24 1998 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Full Stalls Still Waiting > >Rutledge, > My suggestion is never use full (or any?) aileron at stall. You are >asking to enter a spin. I was taught to use the rudder to keep the wings >level near stall. > Also your description does not sound like either of the Firestars >that I have stalled. The power on is similar, except I only see a few >miles and hour between burble and stall. The nose only lowers, but not >even to level and it starts climbing again. On power off, the stall >occurs at the same speed, with little or no warning, and the nose drops >significantly. With engine off, there is no warning at all, a >significant drop of the nose. My planes have not had a tendancy to drop >a wing in or near stall. > Here is a guess: If you have a forward CG, you may not have enough up >elevator to get a full stall. >John Jung >> >> >> I have been working hard trying to fully stall my newly built Original >> Firestar 377. >snip.. >> I would like comments and suggestions as well as experiences from >> others. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Rut, Here is what I was taught: When you use ailerons, the "effective" angle of attack is increased on the wing with the down aileron. The wing with the up aileron has an unchanged angle of attack. Here is a spin senerio -> right wing starts to drop (because it is just starting to stall), stick is moved left to attempt to keep wings level. The increased "effective" angle on the right wing causes it to stall more, followed by more left stick, etc., until the right wing is completely stalled, with the left wing still flying, and the plane rolls over and spins. John Jung > >Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > Rutledge, > My suggestion is never use full (or any?) aileron at stall. You are > asking to enter a spin. I was taught to use the rudder to keep the wings > level near stall. > > I would like someone to ellaborate on this more. I am a little > confused. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Back on the horse
Hi y'all A few have mentioned 'where the heck have you been' ...almost enf to make me feel missed. :) A month or two ago I mentioned that I was grounded due to recovery from ear surgery. I'm happy to report that I'm back on the horse so to speak. I went up a couple weeks ago and more this weekend. The last I had flown was 4.5 months previous, and that was the only flight since Feb. As well, I had had most of the exterior of the engine removed to look for an air leak that had caused engine failure on both flights 4 and 6 months previous. So, with an engine that wouldn't hum and a pilot that recently felt accomplished just to walk around the block, this all needed to be a pretty basic test flight. I started out running the engine while tethered to my trailer for about 10 minutes. Trying all rpms and rpm changes, all aspects were normal. That seemed to conclude that the engine failures were caused by a simple leak in the exhaust manifold (mentioned in previous post), although I didn't feel really confident in it until after a couple hours of flying and rpm changes in the same manner it had been quitting. On the personal side, I'm happier than you can imagine to have gotten to this point. My flying status before surgery was getting to be, at best, a marginal situation. I was at risk of having to just throw in the towel and quit flying, as well as alter some other more normal activities including my career. (The problem was a balance disorder --the same thing Alan Shepard had btw.) The decision to have surgery had some risk in itself, as the medical information available said that surgery would give me an 85% chance of being normal, or close to it. I have had many thoughts about the "close to it" and 15% parts. The desire to get back into my plane definetly was a factor in my drive to find a medical solution to a disease that still is not very well understood. This weekend's flying was really getting back into the fun more. I did a lot of zooming around in some low rolling hills that are free of trees, power lines, etc. An 8 sq mile playground built for ULs. You can bank down curving small canyons and come up draws making the cattle skitter. At sunset you can smell the grass, see the bugs buzz up in front of you, and kiss the wheels on the weeds as you blast over the next crest. There's one farm house where the 12 year old kid always runs out to climb the water tower and wave like a lunatic whenever I romp around over there. It is really really fun. Ben 'Glad to be more than hangar flying' Ransom :-))))) http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >Rut, > Here is what I was taught: When you use ailerons, the "effective" >angle of attack is increased on the wing with the down aileron. The wing Happy Monday Everybody: Been reading with interest "roll control thru and during stalls." I reckon everybody has their way of doing things, as I do. I believe when Homer Kolb designed his airplanes he put great big barn door ailerons on them so when he was flying around extra slow and comfortable, like he likes to fly, he would have complete roll control, right thru and during the stall. I have found out thru experimentation with the various Kolb aircraft (playing with them) that if one puts them into a "mush" one has complete roll control with ailerons. Take the acft to a couple thousand feet or so (so you have plenty of safety margin), slow down to below flying speed, hold it there with aft stick, and you will be mushing. If you have as VSI you will be amazed at how fast your rate of descent is. You will also be amazed that you can roll the little acft left or right, or hold it wings level, very easily. You will be amazed that there is only light lateral stick pressure, what everyone seems to be looking for now days. Try holding the wings level with rudder only and you will be disappointed that it does not work well with Homer's acft. I believe that people that get into approach and departure stalls with Kolbs simply do not hold enough airspeed margin above stall, don't cross check airspeed, and/or get way behind the acft. I personally do not fly near the stall near the ground cause I know I will not have enough altitude to recover from it and the ground it very hard. I have been known to fly very low and very slow and I have been bitten by gravity and the ground. It is a very helpless feeling when you realize that you are no longer flying and you will not fly before you smack the ground. Most of us have walked away from these incidents, but unfortunately, many of us have not. I have to remember this if I want to fly tomorrow. Kolbs are super little airplanes that are forgiving to a point. I like to play with my airplane, but at altitude. Mushing is a super way to loose a lot of altitude in a hurry and those big ailerons will keep the wings level or help you bank and turn or what ever. When you are ready to stop mushing and fly, a little forward stick and you are flying again. A close to the ground stall is psychologically defeating cause to get out of a stall, you must use forward stick. It is hard to push the stick forward when you are descending in a stall close to the ground to get the airplane flying again. It may be physically defeating to push the stick forward if there is not enough altitude to accomplish the maneuver successfully. How I do get carried away. Remember guys this is only john h's personal opinion, but it has worked and is still working for me. I ain't gonna tell you what to do. That is your choice. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Ok, I can see that. What should I do about the wing dropping at 36 mph. call it a stall? What about the rudder to keep the wing level? Sorry to ask such questions that I should know, but with the 60.5 hour of private pilot training I have, they never taught this. "Rut, Here is what I was taught: When you use ailerons, the "effective" angle of attack is increased on the wing with the down aileron. The wing with the up aileron has an unchanged angle of attack. Here is a spin senerio -> right wing starts to drop (because it is just starting to stall), stick is moved left to attempt to keep wings level. The increased "effective" angle on the right wing causes it to stall more, followed by more left stick, etc., until the right wing is completely stalled, with the left wing still flying, and the plane rolls over and spins. John Jung" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Hi all: The reason you don't use ailerons during a stall is because they are not effective and the rudder is the only control that is still effective in a stall, however if you hold the rudder pedal in full right or full left then you will enter a spin, the ailerons have very little to do with spins. If you advertantly enter a spin you push the nose full down push full opposite rudder add full power then gently bring the nose up to level flight. Thats all for the flight lesson for the day. Frank Marino > ---------- > From: Rutledge Fuller[SMTP:rut007(at)hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:09 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Full Stalls Still Waiting > > > > > > Rutledge, > My suggestion is never use full (or any?) aileron at stall. You are > asking to enter a spin. I was taught to use the rudder to keep the > wings > level near stall. > > I would like someone to ellaborate on this more. I am a little > confused. > > Here is a guess: If you have a forward CG, you may not have enough > up > elevator to get a full stall. > > This is a good point. In either case, I need to spend some more time > expolring the issue in flight. Keep the suggestions flowing. > Thanks. > Rut > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Back on the horse
edu> >> >>This weekend's flying was really getting back into the fun more. I did a >>lot of zooming around in some low rolling hills that are free of trees, >>power lines, etc. An 8 sq mile playground built for ULs. You can bank >>down curving small canyons and come up draws making the cattle skitter. >>At sunset you can smell the grass, see the bugs buzz up in front of >>you, and kiss the wheels on the weeds as you blast over the next crest. >>There's one farm house where the 12 year old kid always runs out to climb >>the water tower and wave like a lunatic whenever I romp around over there. >>It is really really fun. >> >>Ben 'Glad to be more than hangar flying' Ransom :-))))) > My kind of flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!! john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Just got this message. I agree, and I think that this is where I was during my stall testing. Thanks. Happy Monday Everybody: Been reading with interest "roll control thru and during stalls." I reckon everybody has their way of doing things, as I do. I believe when Homer Kolb designed his airplanes he put great big barn door ailerons on them so when he was flying around extra slow and comfortable, like he likes to fly, he would have complete roll control, right thru and during the stall. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Back on the horse
> >>It is really really fun. > >> > >>Ben 'Glad to be more than hangar flying' Ransom :-))))) > > > > > > My kind of flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > john h > John, I must confess that I find myself inching up on the tach. 4900 now seems kinda low and rumbly. I find 5200 my current rpm of choice. Maybe another few hundred hours I'll be in the high 5ks too. :-) Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Russell Savage <rsavage(at)freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: speed limiting flaps on a MrkIII
John, Are the faps on a Kolb MarkIII speed limiting?? Russ Savage Columbus, Ohio A non Kolb owner as of 8/24/98. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Full Stalls Still Waiting
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB) wrote: > > Hi all: The reason you don't use ailerons during a stall is because > they are not effective and the rudder is the only control that is still > effective in a stall, however if you hold the rudder pedal in full right Frank, This is not true. John Jung posted it correctly. Ailerons *can be* very effective in a stall -- they typically invite a spin during high AOA and/or slow flight, precisely for the reason John Jung gave. I think you'll find this backed by any flight training book. However, as John Hauck said, the ailerons are pretty kind to us during Vmin in the Kolbs. Rut, Wing drop at 36 IAS ...call it a stall ...close enf. The main thing is that you are fully aware how your own plane behaves. Especially homebuilt planes will differ slightly, one to the other. I usually get a little rt wing fall off on mine. Also, I don't know why you don't fit in your plane. I'm 5-11 ...my head is close to the top w/ helmet and butt cushion, , my feet fit about right at the pedals, but I have adjustment available to move the pedals closer. Is your plane stock, or modified? I've been able to get my plane (FS-KXP) into a straight ahead slow mush stall instead of the more typical nose drop stall as well. I think i can do this with power off, stick full aft (but it's been awhile), and I *do* use some rudder to keep wings level. My first reaction to finding I could do this was "holy cow, and people spend >$30k for Long-Ezes?!! just for this?!" You will probably find that a more rapid stall entry will cause the more traditional nose drop stall. Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Rut, I can't talk speeds because I don't really know what is going on with your plane when it indicates 36 mph. Even though John Hauck doesn't think the rudder works well to keep the wings level, it works for me. Also, he makes a good point, that the ailerons still give some control in a stall, but I believe that using full ailerons at stall is pushing your luck. Why do I think that? Because I have talked to pilots that have spun in Firestars, seen the wreaks, and watched the pilots, still limping, one and two years later. My Firestars have never shown me any nasty stall or spin tendancies, but a few others have not been as lucky. This is just my opinion, make your own choice. John Jung > >Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > Ok, I can see that. What should I do about the wing dropping at 36 mph. > call it a stall? What about the rudder to keep the wing level? Sorry > to ask such questions that I should know, but with the 60.5 hour of > private pilot training I have, they never taught this. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Ron Carroll
Subject: RE: Whoops
>rt wing fall off on mine. Also, I don't know why you don't fit in your >plane. I'm 5-11 ...my head is close to the top w/ helmet and butt cushion, >, my feet fit about right at the pedals, but I have adjustment available >to move the pedals closer. Is your plane stock, or modified? Whoops, i see that the "fit problem" came from Ron, not Rut . Sorry about that. Also Ron, a note about the elevator and cables. If there is spring or stretch to your cables, something is wrong with the cable or the routing or the control horns or the stick mount. With good cables, cable tension has nothing to do with required stick force. (obvious i know, but just to be clear). Cables should be tight enf to be sure they won't cross over each other, but not be so tight as to cause a binding feel when operating, i.e. they can and do rest on the fuselage tube part way back to the tail. Not very exact i know, but something to go on. Most importantly, you should feel no stretch or backlash when pushing against stick and elevator at the same time. Maybe somebody with their plane unfolded can post how much angle up and down they get in normal elevator travel. -Ben 'making up for past quiet' Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 24, 1998
How many of you have done/practiced spins in your Kolbs? > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jung [SMTP:jrjung(at)execpc.com] > Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:27 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Full Stalls Still Waiting > > > Rut, > I can't talk speeds because I don't really know what is going on > with > your plane when it indicates 36 mph. Even though John Hauck doesn't > think the rudder works well to keep the wings level, it works for me. > Also, he makes a good point, that the ailerons still give some control > in a stall, but I believe that using full ailerons at stall is pushing > your luck. Why do I think that? Because I have talked to pilots that > have spun in Firestars, seen the wreaks, and watched the pilots, still > limping, one and two years later. My Firestars have never shown me any > nasty stall or spin tendancies, but a few others have not been as > lucky. > This is just my opinion, make your own choice. > John Jung > > > >Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > > > > > Ok, I can see that. What should I do about the wing dropping at 36 > mph. > > call it a stall? What about the rudder to keep the wing level? > Sorry > > to ask such questions that I should know, but with the 60.5 hour of > > private pilot training I have, they never taught this. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: speed limiting flaps on a MrkIII
> >John, >Are the faps on a Kolb MarkIII speed limiting?? >Russ Savage >Columbus, Ohio >A non Kolb owner as of 8/24/98. > > > > > Russ: Where's your Kolb? You'll have to check with Dennis Souder or someone who has a published max speed flap deployment publication. I have nothing in writing. I generally try to slow down to 70 mph and below to deploy 20 deg or 40 deg flaps. No need, that I can see to deploy at any faster AS. Hope that answers your questions and I hope I am the right john to answer it. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: speed limiting flaps on a MrkIII
> >Are the faps on a Kolb MarkIII speed limiting?? >Russ Savage >Columbus, Ohio >A non Kolb owner as of 8/24/98. > > > The faps don't have anything to do with the speed limit. Faps are only used to signal turns, or when parallel parking. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42oldpoops) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >Rut, > I can't talk speeds because I don't really know what is going on with >your plane when it indicates 36 mph. Even though John Hauck doesn't >think the rudder works well to keep the wings level, it works for me. >Also, he makes a good point, that the ailerons still give some control >in a stall, but I believe that using full ailerons at stall is pushing >your luck. Why do I think that? Because I have talked to pilots that >have spun in Firestars, seen the wreaks, and watched the pilots, still >limping, one and two years later. My Firestars have never shown me any >nasty stall or spin tendancies, but a few others have not been as lucky. >This is just my opinion, make your own choice. >John Jung >> > Hi John J: Yes you are right on the first point john j, I believe on all Kolbs, except Sling Shot, that the ailerons work better in the mush/stall than the rudder. My opinion only, but again, it works that way for me. I suggest to satisfiy ones own mind they should do mush stalls controlling roll with rudder only and then try it again with aileron only. Don't cheat now, and make sure you have plenty altitude, 1,000 preferably 2,000 plus. Probably doing any kind of mush/stall maneuver close to the ground is pushing your luck and one should have their "head space" checked if they perform these maneuvers close to the ground. I believe full aileron on a Kolb (minus Sling Shot) is definitely overkill to control roll, unless you get caught close to the ground in pretty violent winds and get a wing lifted violently on you by one of their gusts, like turning final, etc. I also believe that these people who you refer to that are limping and ones that have been planted because of stalls/spins, were probably close to the ground, not at one, two, or three thousand feet as I mentioned I prefer to play and experiment with my Kolb. I don't recommend anyone do anything especially spins and aerobatic maneuvers. I do not do aerobatic maneuvers in unaerobatic airplanes anymore, not since my last one 11 March 1990. I do do spins and have spun all the Kolbs I have flown except the Sling Shot (and I have never had it higher than 500 feet and it does not have a parachute installed). I never intentionally spin one lower than 3,000 feet. My big fat MK III will do a one turn spin and recover with a 300 foot alt loss (if I do a good one). My 1985 Firestar would do a half turn spin with eng at idle and fly out of the spin with the controls still locked in the spin position. With dead stick the Firestar would spin up like a top and had to be stopped with opposite rudder and forward stick. john j, what characteristics does your Kolb demonstrate in the spin, eng at idle and eng off? Just my own humble opinion, folks. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
In a message dated 8/24/98 1:14:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jason(at)acuityinc.com writes: << How many of you have done/practiced spins in your Kolbs? >> My brother did an intentional three turn spin in the Mark 2 from 1200 feet. He was right over the grass field we fly from. He pulled of it with 700 feet to spare and said that the plane responded beautifully and that it was a relatively low G manuver. I thought it was a very dumb stunt. A little old lady down the street called the tower at Trenton and said she saw a small airplane crash. The cops came. It was not good. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
John Hauck wrote: > I don't recommend anyone do anything especially spins and aerobatic I personally think spin experience is a good thing, but *ONLY* if you've first done them with an instructor in at least something similar, and with all the other common sense admonitions, including a BRS. I've only done engine idle spins. Entry is quick and slightly inverted (~110 degrees nose down) so it gets your attention. With my plane and CG it will stay in the spin if controls held in spin position, and exit very very easily with normal recovery technique. Have not had nerve to try w/out engine, not sure I'll go there (intentionally). Have never gone more than 1.25 turns ...chicken and alive to brag about it. Did my first FS spins at 4500AGL ...overkill i know... but like the RC guys say, all first tries should be done at least "3 mistakes high". I almost got nose bleeds even before kicking the plane around. :-) Best thing about spin training is they make you devoutly religious about airspeed. You'll never recover if you get in one accidentally down low. Never is a long time, and I can't figure how you can spin in and get away with just a limp. -Ben Ransom Please don't go out and try one on account of reading this crap unless you get in-flight spin instruction first. Call your friendly CFI and do it in a real, spin certified airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Glen, I agree with the others that cg had nothing to with your dads accident. Did you say this was an Original FireStar or the new one? If it was the Original this explains everything because the mains are more aft. Your low tire pressure and landing in soft dirt can be a setup for such an accident. Those Originals will not take much resistance under the mains to put them on their noses. This is something you or your dad were not aware of and it's a hard lesson to learn. I still will occasionally put mine on my nose when I'm on fast taxiing after touching down and turning downwind. The wind will get under the tail and lift it upwards. Embarrassing when that happens. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400 + hrs >Glen Huffaker and I have been reading some of the messages here for a >couple months, I am sorry that my first post to the list will >be about a crash my father, Gene had just last Saturday at Garden >Valley Idaho. We went with a ultralight club here in Boise, >our first X-country with the Kolb, In the preflight, my dad noticed >that the header pipe for the muffler was cracked slightly, (a 447 >Rotax engine, only one joint on the muffler) someone else looked at >it, we thought it would hold, and the pipe did not have to support >anything. I herd that the muffler should have two joints to reduce >the stress and ours looked like it was broke >before and welded at the point where another joint should go. That >would be a simple fix that would have prevented a crash. It >started great, I was the ground crew, and arrived just as they were >touching down. My dad told me the muffler pipe broke clean in half, >but he did not have any problem landing, we knew we couldn't go any >further until we could patch it or fix it. We had some hose claps and >wrapped the pipe with a piece of metal can, it looked like it would >hold. He >started it up and made a test run, while I went with someone else for >a loop in their two seater. when he came around to land, he >noticed the CHT was getting high, 1,800. and he could not control the >engine rpm, he landed with low power, right before the runway in soft >dirt, the dirt slowed him quick and the tail came up, and the whole >thing FLIPPED UPSIDE DOWN. I saw it from above, what the heck, the >CG is so far forward that landing on unpaved ground is difficult if >not impossible to keep the tail down. Luckily, he was not hurt badly, >but he'll have to wear a sling for two weeks because he fractured his >shoulder blade bone. The Firestar did well, it sustained minimal >damage to the stitz covering when pieces of the prop shot through >the aileron and wing, no real structural damage, it's built tough. >several people helped lift it up by the wings, and turn it right side >up. Can anyone shed some light on the forward CG problem of >the firestar >even with a 150 lb. passenger? And why is it built so you can't land ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Whoops
I am most interested in the discussion of using/not using aileron to correct "wing down" at stalls. After a whole bincha hrs in many different airplanes (pardon the expression) this thing seems to be just one more facet of UL flying so new to me. But I'm enjoying the many tutorials, and hope to save me empenage thru this new-found knowledge. But I surely "walk" the rudders near a stall, still. Hard for a real old dawg to break real old habitsI still can hear my instructor of 57 years ago giving me what for! Be careful, though. Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Calm down Ron, I'm the same size you are and I find the cockpit comfortable. Ralph Original FS 400+ hrs writes: > >The last thing I discovered yesterday was that I don't fit in the >cockpit. I've never had everything together before, so didn't realize just how >small the cockpit really is. I'm not tall, just 5'10", but my head, without >a helmet on, sticks into the lower part of the wing (where the gap seal >will go) about 2". I either have to semi-recline, or put a large round >hole in the gap seal. I can't move around enough for good visibility. I was >worried about not being able to reach the rudder pedals, but in the >position I'll have to assume, I have to bend my knees up to keep from pressing >too hard. >Very disappointing! This may not remain in the family too long. > >Ron Carroll ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Rut, If you are high enough >1500 feet, stalls are really nothing to fear. I pull the stick back and I will hear the prop burble in the turbulent air off the wing root where it stalls first. Then with no wing drop, it falls off and begins flying again. Nothing to fear. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > > >I have been working hard trying to fully stall my newly built Original > >Firestar 377. Power off I get burbles at 36 indicated and one wing >begins to drop. I can add oppisite aileron pressure and continue to >add >back pressure until full aft at 26 indicated where the plane stays >tail >low and simply decends. The same for power on stalls at 5800 rpm. >Burbles start at 32 indicated instead with a more destinct nose high, >tail low at 26 indicated full aft stick and aileron input. I am >currently waiting for another escort to continue tests. I like to >have >a buddy in the air with me--security blanket, when I practice these >stalls. >I would like comments and suggestions as well as experiences from >others. > >Thanks, >Rutledge Fuller 25.5 hrs. >Tallahassee, Fl. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Back on the horse
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Hey Ben, glad to see you back in the saddle. I really enjoy you comments. Ralph Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > > >Hi y'all > >A few have mentioned 'where the heck have you been' ...almost enf to >make me feel missed. :) > >A month or two ago I mentioned that I was grounded due to recovery >from >ear surgery. I'm happy to report that I'm back on the horse so to >speak. >I went up a couple weeks ago and more this weekend. The last I had >flown was 4.5 months previous, and that was the only flight since Feb. >As well, I had had most of the exterior of the engine removed to look >for an air leak that had caused engine failure on both flights 4 and 6 >months previous. So, with an engine that wouldn't hum and a pilot >that >recently felt accomplished just to walk around the block, this all >needed >to be a pretty basic test flight. > >I started out running the engine while tethered to my trailer for >about >10 minutes. Trying all rpms and rpm changes, all aspects were normal. >That seemed to conclude that the engine failures were caused by a >simple >leak in the exhaust manifold (mentioned in previous post), although I >didn't feel really confident in it until after a couple hours of >flying >and rpm changes in the same manner it had been quitting. > >On the personal side, I'm happier than you can imagine to have gotten >to this point. My flying status before surgery was getting to be, >at best, a marginal situation. I was at risk of having to just throw >in the towel and quit flying, as well as alter some other more normal >activities including my career. (The problem was a balance disorder >--the >same thing Alan Shepard had btw.) The decision to have surgery had >some >risk in itself, as the medical information available said that surgery >would give me an 85% chance of being normal, or close to it. I have >had many thoughts about the "close to it" and 15% parts. The desire >to get back into my plane definetly was a factor in my drive to find a >medical solution to a disease that still is not very well understood. > >This weekend's flying was really getting back into the fun more. I >did a >lot of zooming around in some low rolling hills that are free of >trees, >power lines, etc. An 8 sq mile playground built for ULs. You can >bank >down curving small canyons and come up draws making the cattle >skitter. >At sunset you can smell the grass, see the bugs buzz up in front of >you, and kiss the wheels on the weeds as you blast over the next >crest. >There's one farm house where the 12 year old kid always runs out to >climb >the water tower and wave like a lunatic whenever I romp around over >there. >It is really really fun. > >Ben 'Glad to be more than hangar flying' Ransom :-))))) >http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke weight
Date: Aug 24, 1998
John H, do you remember how much more you airplane weighed when you changed from your 2 stroke to your 4 stroke? Were there any non engine related weights added? what engine did you have before your 912? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Boy are Kolbs different. My Firestar 2 is not standard in that I faired in the engine and added underwing gap seals, but my ailerons are basically decoration and relatively ineffective, my rudder is the primary wing leveler in turbulance,as for using ailerons at low speeds I spent 40 years on and off driving ag aircraft and I work hard to keep that ball centered and the wings symmetrical. My firestar wiould spin rapidly when I was playing with aileron droop but normally you have to force it to do it with full stick and at least 3/4 rudder. DickC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Bob Gross <rpgross(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Rutledge, your wings aren't rig quite right, with the right wing having more incidence that the left and stalling. My original FS has almost no burble or warning. I stall straight ahead and stays that way even when built up a deep stall. I see about 31 IAS in a full stall. good luck! Bob Original FS rotax 377 ---Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > I have been working hard trying to fully stall my newly built Original > Firestar 377. Power off I get burbles at 36 indicated and one wing > begins to drop. I can add oppisite aileron pressure and continue to add > back pressure until full aft at 26 indicated where the plane stays tail > low and simply decends. The same for power on stalls at 5800 rpm. > Burbles start at 32 indicated instead with a more destinct nose high, > tail low at 26 indicated full aft stick and aileron input. I am > currently waiting for another escort to continue tests. I like to have > a buddy in the air with me--security blanket, when I practice these > stalls. > I would like comments and suggestions as well as experiences from > others. > > Thanks, > Rutledge Fuller 25.5 hrs. > Tallahassee, Fl. > > > > > == Captain Robert P. Gross American Airlines MIA 561-744-8055 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: kmead(at)up.net (Kent kathy Mead)
Subject: Re: It mocks me- R&D pipe
> Hi Rusty Man, your luck is as about as good as mine. Hope it gets better Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: gap-seal
> Will the full width permanent gap seal make installing the wing pins > difficult? > Dick C Put them in before you put it on........ J. Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Some annoyances about the Firestar, and a crash
> noticed that the header pipe for the > muffler was cracked slightly Mistake # 1 >we thought it would hold Mistake # 2 >told me the muffler pipe broke clean in half Effects of mistake # 1 >hose claps and wrapped > the pipe with a piece of metal can, it looked like it would hold. Geeez....big mistake # 3 > Can anyone shed some light on the forward CG problem of the firestar > even with a 150 lb. passenger? And why is it built so you can't land > the darn thing in the grass or soft dirt. Lands just fine in soft dirt if you have the appropriate tundra tires.......and aren't in a hurry to self-destruct. A lesson for all those in a hurry to go someplace......... J. Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Adrio Taucer <adrio(at)capitalnet.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna
I have made dozens of these and each time I just file it carefully. Works great. I do have a micrometer to check diameter though (the only proper tool I use in the process). Adrio Jim Baker wrote: > > > > replacing of the original BNC pin is great, but gotta > > turn it down=lathe work. I don't have a metal-turning lathe, and have > > trouble going to local machine shop that turns BIG stuff and asking for > > that teeny work. > > Geez.....lathe? How about a drill and emery...or file. Not accurate > to the thousanth but acceptable. Just make sure the wire is in a > tube when turning so it doesn't whip and kill you. > > J. Baker > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >Boy are Kolbs different. My Firestar 2 is not standard in that I faired in >the engine and added underwing gap seals, but my ailerons are basically >decoration and relatively ineffective, my rudder is the primary wing leveler >DickC Hi DickC and Gang: This is very interesting. Dick's FS II is the first Kolb I have heard of that is a rudder and not an aileron airplane. Have you tried flying without ailerons? I find it very difficult for a short period of time and then it gets into an impossible situation where the low wing can not be picked up with rudder. Maybe I am doing something or maybe I am not doing something right. I don't know. What's the secret? Reckon it is the mods? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke weight
.com> > >John H, do you remember how much more you airplane weighed when you >changed from your 2 stroke to your 4 stroke? Were there any non engine >related weights added? what engine did you have before your 912? Hello Jason: To be honest, I did not weigh the airplane after installation of the 912, which replaced a 582. I don't think there was more than 25 or 30 lbs at the most. The 582 had twin radiators, oil tank, and super large standard rotax exhaust system. The 912 has an oil tank, small single coolant radiator, oil cooler (small), and small lightweight exhaust system. I used two pieces of 1/4" X 2" 6061 alum to mount the 912 to the 582 lord mounts. The change in character of the airplane from 582 to 912 was tremendous. Reliability went up 100 per cent, no engine outs in nearly 1,000 hours of 912 time. Two eng outs caused by contaminated fuel purchased while on extended XCs, but not eng related. 582 eng seized at a little over 200 hours. Never determined whaat the actual cause was, other than cold seizure after take off and climb out and throttle reduction to cruise setting, wham!!!!! I gladly pay any weight penalty and expense difference between the two engs to fly the 912 over the 582 in my plane. However, I put a lot of time on the factory Sling Shot and MK III before they put the 912 on it, and feel comfortable flying them. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Antenna
OK, Jim, you got me . I reckon I'm used to trying to maintain low VSWRs at freqs of 440 and 1296mc, and at a bit higher power. Of course you're right, and I understand putting the loose end of the wire in a pc of tubing. As an old shade-tree mech (EE and FAA ticket) I bow to superior knowledge. Maybe I should take a few whips from the wire? Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >picked up with rudder. Maybe I am doing something or maybe I am not doing >something right. I don't know. > >What's the secret? Reckon it is the mods? > > >john h > > Should have read, "Maybe I am doing something wrong or maybe I am not doing something right." john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Shock cooling
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Just a reminder- when you are needing to lose altitude fast, as in Richards case. The quickest and safest way regarding your plane is the standard GA maneuver of tight turns until you reach the altitude that you need. I have to land in the bottom of a canyon whose wall is 1500 feet higher than the field. It takes two turns at about 5200 rpms to be at the right level to make my final. No excessive speeds and temps are right where they need to be for quick response. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
Sorry for chiming in more than my share here, but one other little tidbit about rudder vs aileron in stall/pre-stall: Since rudder is a primary input for spin recovery, the habit of using rudder to keep wings level at stall is helpful in keeping your feet aware that they have a job to do if it spins. As well, some wierd notion that ailerons will level the wings in stall (even if true in a Kolb) might kill you an an airplane that is more temperamental about spin entry or recovery. This known well by our glider friends ...George? - Ben Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 1998
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
writes: > > >Sorry for chiming in more than my share here, but one other little >tidbit >about rudder vs aileron in stall/pre-stall: Since rudder is a primary >input for spin recovery, the habit of using rudder to keep wings level >at stall is helpful in keeping your feet aware that they have a job to >do if it spins. As well, some wierd notion that ailerons will level >the >wings in stall (even if true in a Kolb) might kill you an an airplane >that is more temperamental about spin entry or recovery. This known >well by our glider friends ...George? > >- Ben Ransom >YAH! if you used aileron during a stall, it would get you a wrap on the head. At least from my glider CFI! Bob Doebler > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 2100D
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Seems to me it's a Revmaster. VW base, direct drive. Big Lar. ---------- > From: swultra <swultra(at)primenet.com> > To: KOLB NEWS GROUP > Subject: Kolb-List: 2100D > Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 8:13 AM > > > Hi all, I was looking thru the sept. kitplanes mag. at all the nice > kolbs and saw larry fuller,s plane and was wondering what the 2100D > engine is. thanks, steve ward mark-3 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: speed limiting flaps on a MrkIII
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Good one old poops I laughed my butt off on this one. Frank > ---------- > From: Richard Pike[SMTP:rpike(at)preferred.com] > Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 4:42 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: speed limiting flaps on a MrkIII > > > > > > > >Are the faps on a Kolb MarkIII speed limiting?? > >Russ Savage > >Columbus, Ohio > >A non Kolb owner as of 8/24/98. > > > > > > The faps don't have anything to do with the speed limit. Faps > are > only used to signal turns, or when parallel parking. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (42oldpoops) > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
Ben, Very well said. Now I am satisfied that the subject has been covered well enough. If a person were to read each of the recent posts on "Full Stalls" and "spins", they would have some good information on stalling Kolbs. And that would give them a good basis for making up there own mind. John Jung > >Ben Ransom wrote: > > > Sorry for chiming in more than my share here, but one other little tidbit > about rudder vs aileron in stall/pre-stall: Since rudder is a primary > input for spin recovery, the habit of using rudder to keep wings level > at stall is helpful in keeping your feet aware that they have a job to > do if it spins. As well, some wierd notion that ailerons will level the > wings in stall (even if true in a Kolb) might kill you an an airplane > that is more temperamental about spin entry or recovery. This known > well by our glider friends ...George? > > - Ben Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
Ben Ransom wrote: snip.. >You'll never recover if you get in one accidentally down low. > Never is a long time, and I can't figure how you can spin in and get > away with just a limp. Ben, I cleaned up my report on the injuries of "spin and crash" pilots to say that they were limping after a year or two. I didn't mention that one of them was still using crutches after a year, and a cane after two years. I also didn't mention the months of painfull theropy that they went through or the hospitol and medical costs that they incurred. But maybe these things need to be mentioned once in a while so that none of us get too casual about flying. I don't want to take any fun out of it, but I don't want new people to get involved in our sport because we only painted a "pretty" picture for them. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
john hauck wrote: > john j, what characteristics does your Kolb demonstrate in the spin, eng at > idle and eng off? > I was taught to reconize a stall and avoid spins. And my training has worked so far because I have never been in a spin, not even with an instructor. I do plan to take spin training in the future, though. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: spins, was ...
Date: Aug 25, 1998
John/Ben and all: If you read accident reports that are published by general aviation you will see that most accidents are caused by stall/spin close to the ground, most are in a turn to final or some trying to make the runway in a steep turn after engine failure. Ultralight type flying that we do is for fun and for flying straight and level slow and to wave at people on the ground. If you go out with the intent to spin or do aerobatics in an ultrlight type aircraft then your asking for trouble. That is my nickles worth, inflation you know. Frank Philosophical Marino > ---------- > From: John Jung[SMTP:jrjung(at)execpc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 8:52 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: spins, was ... > > > Ben Ransom wrote: > snip.. > >You'll never recover if you get in one accidentally down low. > > Never is a long time, and I can't figure how you can spin in and get > > away with just a limp. > Ben, > I cleaned up my report on the injuries of "spin and crash" pilots > to > say that they were limping after a year or two. I didn't mention that > one of them was still using crutches after a year, and a cane after > two > years. I also didn't mention the months of painfull theropy that they > went through or the hospitol and medical costs that they incurred. But > maybe these things need to be mentioned once in a while so that none > of > us get too casual about flying. I don't want to take any fun out of > it, > but I don't want new people to get involved in our sport because we > only > painted a "pretty" picture for them. > John Jung > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: spins,
Ben Ransom is correct in warning against aileron in stalls/spins in aircraft other than ULs. Unfortunately instructors "now-a-days" don't teach spins, and therefor how to recover from themyou have to go to "spin school," and lay out more big bucks for that most necessary trainingbut as the saying goes "spins happen." It's most comforting to know that my little FireFly is so foregiving, however many of you already have (or will get) training/ratings in larger N-numbered A/C that may not be so docile. Even a C150 doesn't like aileron in stall, and can/will go over the top before you know it. Also, from my experience will a 172, 182, 206, Stearman, SNJ, F6F. Never tried a PBY. Dance on them rudders. Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
>Adam >I just use a 3' length of a tiedown strap and hook the end on the tailwheel >then press on the end of the wing trailing edge tube when lifting the tail >to swing or roll the plane. I just pack the strap and the two 18" pins for >the wing fold fittings when I fly to another airport and there is a chance >it may need to be folded for overnight. >Charles Henry >Hankinson ND >FSI, 130 hrs > Dang it I thought I had the easiest lightest way to move things around with the tubes in the trailing edge method. Charles' idea has me beat. Of course both of our ideas do need a bit more muscle than a tail wheel dolly but ours are portable. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
From: mefine1(at)JUNO.COM (Mick Fine)
writes: > > >... I find it very difficult for a short period of time >and >then it gets into an impossible situation where the low wing can not >be >picked up with rudder. ... This may or may not be of interest to anyone (never stopped me before..) but my Flyer (1982) behaves exactly the same. Hands-off, it will very slowly drop the right wing. Countering with rudder only yaws the plane and raises the nose slightly. The wing drop can be stopped but not reversed with rudder. If I play with the power, I can eventually reach a steady state with the right wing low, yawed to the left and slowly descending. Pretty it ain't and I wonder how/if I would ever "land" it in the event of loosing aileron control. My Challenger 2 is exactly opposite, I don't think you could control it without rudder, not for long anyway. The adverse yaw from it's ailerons is tremendous compared to the Kolbs I've flown. -Mick Fine Tulsa, Oklahoma http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO) http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: Gary Thacker <gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Charles Henrey: 2nd time up and how to move about
Charles I saw this post but didn't have your address. I would like to talk to you about your methiod of movin things around. Thanks Gary ____F i r e S t a r____ ___(+)___ (_) \ / On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, wood wrote: > > >Adam > >I just use a 3' length of a tiedown strap and hook the end on the tailwheel > >then press on the end of the wing trailing edge tube when lifting the tail > >to swing or roll the plane. I just pack the strap and the two 18" pins for > >the wing fold fittings when I fly to another airport and there is a chance > >it may need to be folded for overnight. > >Charles Henry > >Hankinson ND > >FSI, 130 hrs > > > > Dang it I thought I had the easiest lightest way to move things around with > the tubes in the trailing edge method. Charles' idea has me beat. Of course > both of our ideas do need a bit more muscle than a tail wheel dolly but ours > are portable. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick > themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: Gary Thacker <gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Kolb-List List
Is there a way of gettin the names and e-mail addresses of the members of the list? I remember at one time we could request a list of the members. Is this available with the new system? Gary ____F i r e S t a r____ ___(+)___ (_) \ / ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Bentley <Scott.Bentley(at)Bentley.COM>
Subject: List of Subscribers
Date: Aug 25, 1998
See http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/Kolb-List.FAQ for instructions. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Thacker [mailto:gthacker(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us] ... Is there a way of gettin the names and e-mail addresses of the members of the list? I remember at one time we could request a list of the members. Is this available with the new system? Gary Souderton,Pa. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: Ailerons
Early flights with my unmodified plane would give some prop noise before stall but after the fairing and gap seals there is zero warning. I have always been unhappy with aileron power and flexibility from the stick to the mass balance weights. Quick stick movement is like a fat dog shaking, everything moves at its own pace.and not yours. I also experimented with various length pushrods to find the best aileron position as I could not find a reference to it on my plans. Some of the positions combined with a slightly off wing gave scary results. While I am talking ailerons how come the movement differential is backwards to convention in having more down than up? Any thoughts Dennis? Dick C ________________________________________________________________________________ dwegner(at)isd.net
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
John and Ben, I know it's important to be aware of the stall/spin and this was impressed upon me so much that I was fearful of stalling when I began flying my FS. I have a healthy respect for it, but I can think of a situation in low and slow flight where one does not really have to be concerned about stalling at all. This is called "flying off the deck". In the winter here in Minnnesota, we fly inches off the frozen lake for miles on end and at very slow speeds (about 35mph). If the plane does stall, all that will happen will be a normal landing. This is probably the only exception that I can think of where low and slow is perfectly safe (and fun) without having to be concerned with stalls/spins. See what you Southerners are missing out on. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs > >Ben Ransom wrote: >snip.. >>You'll never recover if you get in one accidentally down low. >> Never is a long time, and I can't figure how you can spin in and get >> away with just a limp. >Ben, > I cleaned up my report on the injuries of "spin and crash" pilots >to >say that they were limping after a year or two. I didn't mention that >one of them was still using crutches after a year, and a cane after >two >years. I also didn't mention the months of painfull theropy that they >went through or the hospitol and medical costs that they incurred. But >maybe these things need to be mentioned once in a while so that none >of >us get too casual about flying. I don't want to take any fun out of >it, >but I don't want new people to get involved in our sport because we >only >painted a "pretty" picture for them. >John Jung > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Spongie elevator cable
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Thanks for your interest, Ben. Good to have you back on top, so to speak! This on really has me stumped. I've had about 10 guys come over and check it out. They offered little but a questioned look on their faces. The cables (original cables provided with the kit) are all separate in the boom tube ( no crossed or twisted cables) and NOTHING *gives* , i.e., stick, pulleys, airframe or hinges, except that the elevator horn moves approximately an inch, and returns to the original position when downward pressure is relieved. The feeling, while pressing down on the rear of the elevator, is that the cable is made of a heavy duty bungee (probably an exaggeration). My EAA Tech-Advisor had me tighten the cables to the point of almost being able to play a tune on them. In fact, the elevator now does not return to the down position when the stick is released. I'm afraid this will cause unnecessary wear on the hinges. I got a short note from someone this morning who said there is no need for the cables to be very tight. There is actually no way to put a tension gauge on them because the long span is, of course, inside the boom tube. Even if I could get to it I wouldn't know what the tension should be (can't find anything in the manual). My problem is that I've never seen a Firestar, and know of none I can go look at and get a feel for. When I post my question to the list I feel foolish because no one else has had the problem. Maybe there really is no problem. Maybe they all have this soft feel. ??? I've never had an ultralight that had this spongie feel, but of course, some were tubes instead of cables. The way I found it is when I was doing the engine break-in. The tail wanted to come up so we pulled the stick back in an effort to hold the tail down. With the prop blast the elevator would only rise about an inch above the horizontal. I'm not sure why, or if I would have the guts to try and fly it. Maybe this is normal, but I don't know. I either need to actually see one, or have some one place a measured down pressure on the rear edge of the elevator and measure the amount of droop with the stick secured in the full up position. With this information I could easily compare mine with their's. Again, I thank you for your input, and I'll keep looking. Have FUN! Ron Carroll Original Firestar -----Original Message----- From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> Date: Tuesday August 25 1998 10:10 AM Subject: RE: elevator cable problem >>Also Ron, a note about the elevator and cables. If there is spring or >>stretch to your cables, something is wrong with the cable or the routing >>or the control horns or the stick mount. > >...an afterthought of one more potential trouble area: also check the > elevator hinges > >Good luck. > >-Ben Ransom > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
Sorry Ralph but I think that if you can do this over water with floats strapped on in 90+ degr weather still beats doing this in icy conditions. Frank (Lotus Float equipped)Reynen MKIII in the sunny warm California Delta 6 inches above the water @460 hrs http://www.webcom.com/reynen Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com John and Ben, I know it's important to be aware of the stall/spin and this was impressed upon me so much that I was fearful of stalling when I began flying my FS. I have a healthy respect for it, but I can think of a situation in low and slow flight where one does not really have to be concerned about stalling at all. This is called "flying off the deck". In the winter here in Minnnesota, we fly inches off the frozen lake for miles on end and at very slow speeds (about 35mph). If the plane does stall, all that will happen will be a normal landing. This is probably the only exception that I can think of where low and slow is perfectly safe (and fun) without having to be concerned with stalls/spins. See what you Southerners are missing out on. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
Date: Aug 25, 1998
>inches off the frozen lake for miles on end and at very slow speeds >See what you Southerners are missing out on. You mean frostbite :-) Rusty (southern boy) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: spins,
Date: Aug 25, 1998
>that may not be so docile. Even a C150 doesn't like aileron in stall, >and can/will go over the top before you know it. Also, from my My original flight instructor always warned me not to use the ailerons in a stall recovery. He expected me to make the mistake eventually and learn the intended lesson, but to his apparent frustration, I never did. Finally at the end of a day of stalls in the 152, he gave up and said "I've got the plane. Let me show you what happens if you use the ailerons". In about a nanosecond, we were upside down and spinning toward the ground. It was a powerful lesson :-) Rusty (I'm a rudder guy) Duffy ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Ron, I briefly read your post and have some idea of your problem. First I must impress on you: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FLY your FireStar until we figure this out. It is not normal for the elevator to feel spongy or have ANY give in the cables. What I suspect is that you may have a cracked or broken cable support. Look under the seat and inspect the cable pulley supports for any cracking. The elevator/rudder cables do NOT need to be super tight. If you have tightened them too much, this may explain any cracking that you might see. When I sight down the fuse tube from the rear, I see some sag in mine. This is normal. The elevator/rudder/aileron controls should be free in movement without ANY binding or sticking. I believe the elevator up travel to be about 8" and it is very positive. When the Original FireStars taxi over rough turf, the bottom cable can be heard clanking inside the tube if there is no other supports added (I know there is some type of support that can be added as I have read in the posts). This is not a problem as I've inspected the cables and see no wear in 11 years. Let us know what you see. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > > >Thanks for your interest, Ben. Good to have you back on top, so to >speak! > >This on really has me stumped. I've had about 10 guys come over and >check >it out. They offered little but a questioned look on their faces. The >cables (original cables provided with the kit) are all separate in the >boom >tube ( no crossed or twisted cables) and NOTHING *gives* , i.e., >stick, >pulleys, airframe or hinges, except that the elevator horn moves >approximately an inch, and returns to the original position when >downward >pressure is relieved. The feeling, while pressing down on the rear >of the >elevator, is that the cable is made of a heavy duty bungee (probably >an >exaggeration). > >My EAA Tech-Advisor had me tighten the cables to the point of almost >being >able to play a tune on them. In fact, the elevator now does not return >to >the down position when the stick is released. I'm afraid this will >cause >unnecessary wear on the hinges. I got a short note from someone this >morning who said there is no need for the cables to be very tight. >There is >actually no way to put a tension gauge on them because the long span >is, of >course, inside the boom tube. Even if I could get to it I wouldn't >know >what the tension should be (can't find anything in the manual). > >My problem is that I've never seen a Firestar, and know of none I can >go >look at and get a feel for. When I post my question to the list I >feel >foolish because no one else has had the problem. Maybe there really >is no >problem. Maybe they all have this soft feel. ??? I've never had an >ultralight that had this spongie feel, but of course, some were tubes >instead of cables. > >The way I found it is when I was doing the engine break-in. The tail >wanted >to come up so we pulled the stick back in an effort to hold the tail >down. >With the prop blast the elevator would only rise about an inch above >the >horizontal. I'm not sure why, or if I would have the guts to try and >fly >it. Maybe this is normal, but I don't know. I either need to >actually see >one, or have some one place a measured down pressure on the rear edge >of the >elevator and measure the amount of droop with the stick secured in the >full >up position. With this information I could easily compare mine with >their's. > >Again, I thank you for your input, and I'll keep looking. Have FUN! > >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> >To: Ron Carroll >Date: Tuesday August 25 1998 10:10 AM >Subject: RE: elevator cable problem > > >>>Also Ron, a note about the elevator and cables. If there is spring >or >>>stretch to your cables, something is wrong with the cable or the >routing >>>or the control horns or the stick mount. >> >>...an afterthought of one more potential trouble area: also check >the >> elevator hinges >> >>Good luck. >> >>-Ben Ransom >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob538(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Stalls and spins
Well here is my input. I also was taught to use rudder and very little, if any aileron. I also Remember in Slow flight just about 5 mph. above stall that you make slight turns with rudder only, not by ailerons. I believe this also was to keep from getting into a spin cause of the increased drag from the down aileron. Just a little from what i remember, Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 1998
From: matt nisbet <mnisbet(at)prairienet.com>
Subject: Re: control stick position
has anyone made a fix for the forward stick location straight and level? i was thinking of of welding an angled tube at the top to offset it back about 4" matt nisbet firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: Please Read - "Was I Unsubscribed?"...
Listers, There is a web page available for checking to see if your email address has been unsubscribed from the List. Any email address removed from the List because of bouncing email will be shown on this web page along with a brief explaination of why it was removed. Please Bookmark the following URL for future reference: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed/bouncing.cgi Thanks! Matt Dralle List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Hey Rusty, I know your kidding but we actually get hot out there on that frozen lake since we are dressed up in many layers of clothes and stuff. Ralph > >>inches off the frozen lake for miles on end and at very slow speeds > > >>See what you Southerners are missing out on. > > >You mean frostbite :-) > >Rusty (southern boy) > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Subject: List Digest Mode...
Listers, For those of you that arn't aware of it, there is a 'digest mode' available for each of the Lists. The digest mode messages consist of the entire day's messages grouped together into one message and sent as single email at the end of the day. The description below is from the List FAQ regarding the operation and subscription process: (If you are on either the Kolb or Zenith Lists, please substitute the word "rv" below with either "kolb" or "zenith" as necessary.) ============================================================================== This digest will contain basically the same data that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all except for the From:, and Subject: headers stripped out, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of "underscores (___...)". combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, simply send an email message to: rv-list-digest-request(at)matronics.com or kolb-list-digest-request(at)matronics.com or zenith-list-digest-request(at)matronics.com and put the word "subscribe" in the BODY of the message. No other text in the body or the Subject field. To remove your email address from the digest list, simply put the word "unsubscribe" in the body instead. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest list. * If you are subscribed to both the regular list and the digest list, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. IMPORTANT NOTE: PLEASE change the subject line to reflect the the topic of your response!!!! Also, PLEASE *DO NOT INCLUDE ALL OR MOST OF THE DIGEST IN YOUR REPLY*. ============================================================================== -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: control stick position
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Matt, all you have to do is re-rig the elevator turnbuckles so the stick comes further back. This is, of course, if you have enough thread left on the turnbuckle to adjust it backwards. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > >has anyone made a fix for the forward stick location straight and >level? > >i was thinking of of welding an angled tube at the top to offset it >back >about 4" > >matt nisbet >firestar > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "barry youngblood" <barry(at)hcis.net>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
Date: Aug 25, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Adam S Violett <asviolett(at)JUNO.COM> Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 7:57 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd time up and how to move about >testing to see why I'm not receiving messages > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 25, 1998
Ron, I do know this: when I'm running up the engine on the ground at full power and I have the stick back, the elevator stays all the way up, about 8" from level. There is no sag or droop and I wouldn't want it. I have never had someone hold the stick in place while I checked the elevator for movement so I can't say what movement I would see if any. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs > except that the elevator horn moves approximately an inch, and returns to the >original position when downward pressure is relieved. The feeling, while >pressing down on the rear of the elevator, is that the cable is made of a heavy >duty bungee (probably an exaggeration). >The way I found it is when I was doing the engine break-in. The tail >wanted to come up so we pulled the stick back in an effort to hold the tail >down. With the prop blast the elevator would only rise about an inch above >the horizontal. > I'm not sure why, or if I would have the guts to try and fly it. (You know what would happen if you did. Let's get this worked out .... Ralph) >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Life with Rotax (sorta long)
Date: Aug 26, 1998
You have good ideas, Woody. I've always used WD-40 the same way, but yours is a lot less messy. Thanks. Big Lar. WD-40 still works the best for cleaning greasy hands, tho'. ---------- > From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fwd: Life with Rotax (sorta long) > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 9:42 AM > > > >I sent it to Greensky hoping they would find bad crankshaft seals or leaking > Next time you suspect an air leak try blowing some raw propane out of > your torch to the suspect areas. If the engine changes speed you have > located a vacume leak. > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick > themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 2nd time up and how to move about
Date: Aug 26, 1998
---------- > From: > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2nd time up and how to move about > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 12:55 AM > > Well, you got to this end of the country. Let's see if this gets back to > you. Big Lar. > > ---------- > > From: barry youngblood <barry(at)hcis.net> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2nd time up and how to move about > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 7:03 PM > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam S Violett <asviolett(at)JUNO.COM> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 7:57 PM > > Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd time up and how to move about > > > > > > >testing to see why I'm not receiving messages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Up Elevator.
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Hi to Ron Carroll: You don't ever want to feel funny about asking a valid question. It could save your life, and it's one of the great benefits of a group like this. In a similar vein, when I went through my flight training ( Cessna 172 ), my instructor put me through a simulated up elevator cable breakage. Since our aircraft are trimmed to be nose heavy, this would mean an uncontrollable dive. Cessnas have an elevator trim wheel connected to a trim tab on the elevator. Between this and the throttle, I practised until I could bring it around to short final. Good lesson. However, Kolbs don't have this, just a single cable back to the elevator horn. With this in mind, I ran a separate cable from the trim spring to its' own clevis on the up side of the horn. If one breaks, I've got an option. Paranoia ?? You bet, but the above exercise made a strong impression. ( As did Barry Schiff's spin video ) Problem arose when I had the EAA tech advisor come to check out the mighty project. He's absolutely determined that it's going to cause elevator flutter. No use Dennis assuring him this won't be a factor, or that earlier versions had 2 cables going back to a common clevis. Whaddaya say to a guy like this ?? Also, without his approval, I don't get the insurance break either, which as it turns out doesn't amount to a hill of beans. About $25.00. Wish I hadn't bothered, now. Big Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBIRDII(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
You guys are right on about NOT flying until this one is figured out! There is a certain way the cables must crisscross in the tube - check it out for proper installation. The cables will "clang" in the tube while taxing, or at least mine always have. One problem I have had. About every 200 hrs I get enough wear on the rudder cables that the strands begin to sever in the area where they go through the nylon guides in the middle of the seat. This is hard to see visually until you twist them slightly. You would think the nylon would wear before the stainless steel ones do - not the case. In any case, equal & full up & down elevator must be achieved with very little "slop" or resistance, or DON'T FLY. Joe Robberson - Kolb Mark II - 600hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBIRDII(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: control stick position
I have the same problem in my Mark II - was thinking of shortening one cable SLIGHTLY and lengthing the other, then adjusting to proper stick position with turnbuckles. Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: Charles Henry <chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re: Charles Henrey: 2nd time up and how to move
about >Charles > >I saw this post but didn't have your address. I would like to talk to >you about your methiod of movin things around. > >Thanks > >Gary > ____F i r e S t a r____ > ___(+)___ > (_) > \ / > >My Email address is chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu Phone # 701 242 7540 Charles Henry Hankinson ND Firestar I 130 hrs > > > >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, wood wrote: > >> >> >Adam >> >I just use a 3' length of a tiedown strap and hook the end on the tailwheel >> >then press on the end of the wing trailing edge tube when lifting the tail >> >to swing or roll the plane. I just pack the strap and the two 18" pins for >> >the wing fold fittings when I fly to another airport and there is a chance >> >it may need to be folded for overnight. >> >Charles Henry >> >Hankinson ND >> >FSI, 130 hrs >> > >> >> Dang it I thought I had the easiest lightest way to move things around with >> the tubes in the trailing edge method. Charles' idea has me beat. Of course >> both of our ideas do need a bit more muscle than a tail wheel dolly but ours >> are portable. >> >> >> >> Woody >> >> Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >> themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ____________\_/____________ (*) O O Happy Landings Charles :) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: Charles Henry <chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re: 2nd time up and how to move about
>Charles: >I see Gary's post to you about this. I didn't really understand >your above post to Adam, but you have my curiosity up too. Is the 3' >length for lifting, or steering, both, or what? I don't get it. > >Thanks in adv. > > Ben Ransom Hi Ben, Good to see you are doing well and flying again. The strap with a hook on the end is used to hook the axel of the plane by the tail wheel and I just loop the strap around my hand and pull on it to lift the tail. Lifting the strap makes the plane want to move back so you need to push on the trailing edge of the wing to control the direction that it moves. Steering is done by pulling the strap to the side. I have put heatshrink tubing on the hook to keep it from scratching and now have tied a loop in the strap to make it easier to hang on to. I think (crs) this was a suggestion of Dennis Souder when I called Kolb to ask how to move it when folded. I fold and store the plane in a single stall garage each time I fly so it has about 100 removal and store cycles with no apparent damage from pushing on the trailing edge tube. Charles Henry ____________\_/____________ (*) O O Happy Landings Charles :) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Hi John, You wrote : >I find it very difficult for a short period of time and >the>This is very interesting. Dick's FS II is the first Kolb I have heard of >that is a rudder and not an aileron airplane. Have you tried flying >without ailerons? n it gets into an impossible situation where the low wing can not be >picked up with rudder. Maybe I am doing something or maybe I am not doing >something right. I don't know. > >What's the secret? Reckon it is the mods? > This has been a most interesting discussion to see all the differences between Kolbs. My Firestar II is mostly a rudder airplane, but it was not always that way. Let me explain. When first setup as nearly as I could follow the Kolb builders manual, my airplane gave an unusual rudder response compared to my GA experience. Specifically, on application of rudder, it would slow, pitch nose up and eventually could ususally be made to stall if rudder was held full over. Furthermore, if the airplane was in a bit of a bank, the rudder alone would not lift the wing or cause the airplane to unbank, but caused the other responses noted above. I decided to add more dihedral because that seemed like it had a chance to make the responses more conventional compared to GA planes which I wanted. Three degrees of dihedral makes my Firestar II able to fly all day without touching the stick. Slight rudder inputs provide all the roll controll that is needed. It can be brought out of a fairly steep (say 20-30 degree) bank with rudder alone. It has just about neutral spiral stability, i.e., when put in a bank it will approximately hold or slightly lower the bank angle without control inputs. When my plane is stalled, the rudder is very effective at lifting a wing (or in the other direction for putting it into a spin). I have not tried the ailerons near stall, so can't comment until I fly it again. However, I might not want to start using the ailerons because if it became a habit I think that can complicate the stall situation in many GA aircraft which I fly some times. Also, I understand that in some aerobatic aircraft, at least, flat or knife-edge spins are initiated by how the ailerons are held at spin entry. At any rate, it would appear from my experience the details of setup can make some difference in how they fly. Vince -----Original Message----- From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:21 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Full Stalls Still Waiting > >> >>Boy are Kolbs different. My Firestar 2 is not standard in that I faired in >>the engine and added underwing gap seals, but my ailerons are basically >>decoration and relatively ineffective, my rudder is the primary wing leveler >>DickC > > >Hi DickC and Gang: > I find it very difficult for a short period of time and >the>This is very interesting. Dick's FS II is the first Kolb I have heard of >that is a rudder and not an aileron airplane. Have you tried flying >without ailerons? n it gets into an impossible situation where the low wing can not be >picked up with rudder. Maybe I am doing something or maybe I am not doing >something right. I don't know. > >What's the secret? Reckon it is the mods? > > >john h > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Life with Rotax (sorta long)
>WD-40 still works the best for cleaning greasy hands, tho'. > >---------- Hey ain't nothin better than good old dish soap for lifting off those greasy stains. Just watch them commercials to see my point. The propane idea works great on cars too. With all them little hoses now it dosnt take much to knock one off and not see it. propane will find it. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
> >Thanks for your interest, Ben. Good to have you back on top, so to speak! > >This on really has me stumped. I've had about 10 guys come over and check >it out. They offered little but a questioned look on their faces. The >cables (original cables provided with the kit) are all separate in the boom If all the guys can't find any thing sloppy or missing in the control system I would say you have inferior cables. You have eliminated all other parts of the system so the only thing left is the cable. Try new cables. But first swap the cables around so the stick works backwards (pull back go down) If you get proper function now you know that the one cable is bad,probably a break in the center wire that you can't see. By the way how does the elevator feel when you push the stick forward is it still spongy? Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
Subject: Re: Ailerons
>While I am talking ailerons how come the movement differential is >backwards to convention in having more down than up? > > > Dick The differential in aileron movement has to do with the angle of the aileron control horn as mounted in the aileron leading edge tube. If a line through the pin in that horn and the aileron hinge axis is parallel to the aileron, the aileron deflection should be symmetric. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Ailerons
While I am talking ailerons how come the movement differential is backwards to convention in having more down than up? Any thoughts Dennis? Dick C All our aircraft we have built have more up than down - which is the way it us supposed to be. Don't know how you get more down than up. Take some pix of your plane and send it to me. I''ll take a look. Dennis Souder Pres Kolb Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: "Jon P. Croke" <joncroke(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
>I decided to add more dihedral because that seemed like it had a chance to make the responses more conventional compared to GA planes which I wanted. Three degrees of dihedral makes my Firestar II able to fly all day without touching the stick. < Very interesting!! Does anyone know offhand how much dihedral is built into the stock configuration of the Firestar??? Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Ailerons
Dennis, I am embarrassed by my question. A few seconds with a pencil and paper shows that you are correct. I suppose its aging optics or maybe a slight down reflex on my ailerons combined with the sloping upper surface that makes the movement look opposite the facts. I do have one more question though as its come up recently on two new Kolbs (you have to be selling a LOT) . Initial positioning on the ailerons, should it be parallel to the upper surface or the lower or in-between. Thanks for replying, I will try and remove my foot from my mouth this evening. Dick C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Ailerons
<< Initial positioning on the ailerons, should it be parallel to the upper surface or the lower or in-between. >> It should be parallel with the bottom surface. Actually, you may even want to droop it a slight amount to compensate for the bit of flex and accumulated play in the linkage. If you have someone hold one aileron while you lift up on the opposite aileron you will see what I am refering too. With it drooped a bit as it sits on the ground, it will not be reflexed when flying. Additionally, you can adjust one way or the other a couple degrees to help trim the aircraft. Dennis Souder Pres Kolb Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Life with Rotax (sorta long)
<< Put engine back on the airframe, flew for about 15 min. and it did the same damn thing! I'd run out of things to do. I was down to the exhaust and the CDI box. To hell with it, I went to OSH. Came back and, of course, the engine still didn't work. While at OSK, for lack of anyother idea, I'd bought a new fuel pump (although I'd rebuilt the old one). So, before starting to fool with the CDI and muffler, I tried the new fuel pump. IT WORKED FINE and has been working fine for the four hours. Moral of the story: I ain't rebuilding no more fuel pumps!!! For $20 or so dollars I'm going to just buy a new one every year or two. Everything about the old fuel pump looks good. It just don't work. This "learning experience" has cost me around $600. But my engine/fuel system has had a complete overhaul. There's not many things major that I could do to my A-65 for $600. So I keep telling myself that's it all relative. Spend that $$$$ and keep flying!! Bill Griffin Glad to have my Kolb flying again >> Bill, don't feel too bad, I had a similar experience..........my name is George, and that makes me curious....(hopefully it stops at that ..cause Curious is a monkey)!. When I received my Firestar components I looked them over with great detail, including my mikuni fuel pump. I'm an almost , but not quite old fart, and upon occasion, need to rub my eye, whenever they get strained...............well, a good friend of mine , Bob Morrison volunteered to take my plane up (447 Rotax) and the engine quit after 5 minutes and 250ft alt. he landed ok and and we found that the gas tank cap did not have a clear vent hole which we cleared. He took off again and got to 350 ft , engine quit again, and after landing, dead stick of course, we found that there were a lot of bubbles in the fuel line and tightened up the clamps. He took off again, got to 450 ft. , engine quit again and he landed and exclaimed..."this ain't fun anymore George," and decided I better fix it, before it flies again. I replaced all kinds of stuff just like you, with the exception of sending it to Jerry Olenik, of Green Sky (which is just a few miles a way from me), I ran it many times tied to a tree, and it would always quit after running full throttle for a minute or so. In desperation, I took the mikuni fuel pump apart again and found one of my eyelashes in it, ( I knew it was mine as GeoR38 was written on the side of it) Removal of the eyelash has allowed me to fly with that fuel pump for 6 years without a hitch, ......but don't tell Bob. My moral is different from yours...........don't open up your fuel pump AND rub your eye...................you can do one but not the other....................................GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
<< How many of you have done/practiced spins in your Kolbs? >> I think my Firestar KX won't spin.................probably cause It knows it would scare me...............................GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 1998
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
<< As well, some wierd notion that ailerons will level the wings in stall (even if true in a Kolb) might kill you an an airplane that is more temperamental about spin entry or recovery. This known well by our glider friends ...George? - Ben Ransom >> Good point Ben, but there is some unusual thread going on here..............JH and others have said that the MK III ( I have a Firestar) creates extra lift one or 2 notches on the flaps and just drag on the "full" notch, If I am deducing right. This sounds very much like a combination "higher lift wing" on the first notch or so (accompanied with its increase in drag) and a spoiler on the full flap condition. ..........gliders have spoilers and ailerons , but usually not flaps............some do have flaps and use them just as described about what I'm concluding the Mk III does...........read and heed Frank M.........you think you have such a wonder "machine" in your MkIII and it turns out to be merely a high powered wonderful "glider"........a matter of point of view I suppose......Also , gliders have long wings and Kolbs have short , high lift "fat" wings. I hope the water is now sufficiently opaque....................................GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >writes: >> >> >>... I find it very difficult for a short period of time >>and >>then it gets into an impossible situation where the low wing can not >>be >>picked up with rudder. ... > >This may or may not be of interest to anyone (never stopped me before..) >but my Flyer (1982) behaves exactly the same. Hands-off, it will very >slowly drop the right wing. Countering with rudder only yaws the plane >and raises the nose slightly. The wing drop can be stopped but not >reversed with rudder. If I play with the power, I can eventually reach a >steady state with the right wing low, yawed to the left and slowly >descending. Pretty it ain't and I wonder how/if I would ever "land" it in >the event of loosing aileron control. > >My Challenger 2 is exactly opposite, I don't think you could control it >without rudder, not for long anyway. The adverse yaw from it's ailerons >is tremendous compared to the Kolbs I've flown. > > >-Mick Fine Thanks Mick: I was ready to drop this thread. I felt I was the only one who had any idea how Homer's airplanes fly. Yep, every Kolb I have built, Ultrastar, Firestar, MK III, and everyone I have flown, have the same flight characteristics, as you describe. Can't comment on Sling Shot, cause I haven't had a chance to go out and do some really enjoyable fling with it. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com>
Subject: need a Mark III ride
Autoforwarded: false UA-content-id: 11C8D5360400 Hop-count: 1 Im a new pilot considering purchase of a Mark III for further training to BFI status. Like the Kolb because of easy breakdown and setup from trailer. Problem: Dont want to buy one without having actually flown in one. Is there anyone out there in my neck of the woods that I could hook up with to get a ride in one? Willing to pay a reasonable price for the service. Thanks for your consideration. Im located in southern california. Erich Weaver sbaew(at)dames.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 1998
From: Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: Flaps on take offs???
To all, >MK III ( I have a Firestar) creates extra lift >one or 2 notches on the flaps and just drag on the "full" notch, If I am >deducing right. I would venture to say that even 1 notch of flaps on the MKIII produces about as much drag (if not more) as lift considering it is a pusher. Two notches (full flaps) almost certainly produces more drag than lift. Some guys talk about using 1 notch of flaps on a short or soft field take off like is recommended on a Cessna and other tractor general aviation airplanes. I have not tested it personally, but I would bet that any flaps actually make for longer take off runs under any circumstances. Anybody out there that has actually measured distances using or not using flaps on take offs? Any opinions or observations? Later, -- Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50.5 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
>My Firestar II is mostly a rudder airplane, but it was not always that way. >Let me explain. When first setup as nearly as I could follow the Kolb >builders manual, my airplane gave an unusual rudder response compared to my >GA experience. Specifically, on application of rudder, it would slow, pitch >nose up and eventually could ususally be made to stall if rudder was held >full over. Furthermore, if the airplane was in a bit of a bank, the rudder >alone would not lift the wing or cause the airplane to unbank, but caused >the other responses noted above. > >I decided to add more dihedral because that seemed like it had a chance to >make the responses more conventional compared to GA planes which I wanted. >Three degrees of dihedral makes my Firestar II able to fly all day without >touching the stick. Slight rudder inputs provide all the roll controll that >is needed. It can be brought out of a fairly steep (say 20-30 degree) bank >with rudder alone. It has just about neutral spiral stability, i.e., when >put in a bank it will approximately hold or slightly lower the bank angle >without control inputs. > >When my plane is stalled, the rudder is very effective at lifting a wing (or >in the other direction for putting it into a spin). I have not tried the Vince: Very interesting. I only have experience with wings rigged to Homer's standards. By increasing dihedral, have you decreased performance? How much increase in inches to get 3 degree increase in dihedral measured at the outboard rib? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
>Does anyone know offhand how much dihedral is built into the stock >configuration of the Firestar??? > >Jon > Howdy Gang: Homer told me the only reason he put any dihedral in the wings is because without dihedral the straight wings looked as though they were drooping. He added CRS a tiny bit just to keep the airplane looking nice. He said there is much more performance in straight wings thaan in wings with dihedral. However, straight wings have to be flown all the time. But they are fun to fplay with. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Undelivered Mail
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Hi Group: I'm a little puzzled here. ( What else is new ?? ) I got a kickback on undelivered mail, on the message to Woody, and the one to Ron. Apparently Woody's got through, since he answered it. Duh. Did the one to Ron about the elevators go through, too ?? Big Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: spins, was ...
Date: Aug 27, 1998
George, or GeoR38, I want to commend you on the upgrade you did on you FS or FX or what ever you call that? the two Mcoy.035 model airplane engines you put on there really sound good and the performance is so much better than the 1938 washing machine motor you had on there, maybe some day you will keep up with my MKIII. Frank M---- > ---------- > From: GeoR38(at)aol.com[SMTP:GeoR38(at)aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 11:12 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: spins, was ... > > > > << As well, some wierd notion that ailerons will level the > wings in stall (even if true in a Kolb) might kill you an an airplane > that is more temperamental about spin entry or recovery. This known > well by our glider friends ...George? > > - Ben Ransom >> > Good point Ben, but there is some unusual thread going on > here..............JH > and others have said that the MK III ( I have a Firestar) creates > extra lift > one or 2 notches on the flaps and just drag on the "full" notch, If I > am > deducing right. This sounds very much like a combination "higher lift > wing" on > the first notch or so (accompanied with its increase in drag) and a > spoiler on > the full flap condition. ..........gliders have spoilers and ailerons > , but > usually not flaps............some do have flaps and use them just as > described > about what I'm concluding the Mk III does...........read and heed > Frank > M.........you think you have such a wonder "machine" in your MkIII and > it > turns out to be merely a high powered wonderful "glider"........a > matter of > point of view I suppose......Also , gliders have long wings and Kolbs > have > short , high lift "fat" wings. > I hope the water is now sufficiently > opaque....................................GeoR38 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Back on the horse
writes: << This weekend's flying was really getting back into the fun more. I did a lot of zooming around in some low rolling hills that are free of trees, power lines, etc. An 8 sq mile playground built for ULs. You can bank down curving small canyons and come up draws making the cattle skitter. At sunset you can smell the grass, see the bugs buzz up in front of you, and kiss the wheels on the weeds as you blast over the next crest. There's one farm house where the 12 year old kid always runs out to climb the water tower and wave like a lunatic whenever I romp around over there. It is really really fun. >> Great news - I'm happy for you! Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: Charles Henry <chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
> >Does anyone know offhand how much dihedral is built into the stock >configuration of the Firestar??? > >Jon > I believe that the instructions call for the wingtip raised 1" from level and if the wing is about 13.5' that is about 1/3 of a degree. The 3 degrees dihedral mentioned in another message would raise the wingtip over 8". Charles Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marino, Frank J (Youngstown ARB)" <Frank.Marino(at)yng.afres.af.mil>
Subject: RETIRING
Date: Aug 27, 1998
> ---------- To all the Kolbers out there, After 40 years in the military service 6 with the 82 airborne and 34 with the air force I am retiring acutually getting booted out. So this week will be my last nickles worth of input to the Kolb news until I get on line with my home computer since I can't use my goverment computer anymore. I got a lot of good information from this e-mail except for GeoR38's and his stinkin glider info. Keep the information flowing. Frank Marino > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
Ron, I checked the elevator on my Firestar II last night. It moves 8 inches up and 10 inches down. Then I tied the stick back and checked for "sponginess" by pressingdown on the most aft corner with my thumb. Reasonable pressure would lower it 2 inches. Pushing hard with my thumb lowered it 3 inches. Just to be clear, 3 inches lowered is still 5 inches above a position "in line" with the horizontal stabilizer. I don't know if mine is right, but I do know that it flys well and has no problem with needing more elevator control. I hope that this helps. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Jon P. Croke wrote: > Does anyone know offhand how much dihedral is built into the stock > configuration of the Firestar??? > Jon, The plans call for 1 inch at the wing tip. I believe that translates into zero degrees, when rounded to the nearest degree. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: Terry Swartz <Tswartz(at)ptdprolog.net>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
john hauck wrote: > > > > >My Firestar II is mostly a rudder airplane, but it was not always that way. > >Let me explain. When first setup as nearly as I could follow the Kolb > >builders manual, my airplane gave an unusual rudder response compared to my > >GA experience. Specifically, on application of rudder, it would slow, pitch > >nose up and eventually could ususally be made to stall if rudder was held > >full over. Furthermore, if the airplane was in a bit of a bank, the rudder > >alone would not lift the wing or cause the airplane to unbank, but caused > >the other responses noted above. > > > >I decided to add more dihedral because that seemed like it had a chance to > >make the responses more conventional compared to GA planes which I wanted. > >Three degrees of dihedral makes my Firestar II able to fly all day without > >touching the stick. Slight rudder inputs provide all the roll controll that > >is needed. It can be brought out of a fairly steep (say 20-30 degree) bank > >with rudder alone. It has just about neutral spiral stability, i.e., when > >put in a bank it will approximately hold or slightly lower the bank angle > >without control inputs. > > > >When my plane is stalled, the rudder is very effective at lifting a wing (or > >in the other direction for putting it into a spin). I have not tried the > > Vince: Very interesting. I only have experience with wings rigged to > Homer's standards. By increasing dihedral, have you decreased performance? > How much increase in inches to get 3 degree increase in dihedral measured > at the outboard rib? > > john h > Hi all Seventeen years ago I built and flew a Weedhopper model C with the original Chiota engine. Top speed 40, stall speed 17, no alerions, only a stick for rudder and elevator, a throttle, and kill switch. I estimate I flew it about 300 hrs (no hr. meter) over three years before I sold it. It was a very stable plane to fly. Rudder input would result in a momentary skid and then a nice banking turn. Release rudder pressure and the plane would skid or settle back to level flight. The wings had lots of dihedral. My MK III which was the quick build kit, which means it was rigged at the factory requires me to fly the plane. It appears to have little dihedral. Rudder input alone does affect the banking slightly but rudder input alone would never get me out of a steep turn. My MK III will settle back to level flight from a shallow turn when I realese aileron pressure, but anything more than a shallow turn requires aileron pressure to return to level flight. Maybe if the holes in the wing struts wear I will have more dihedral and a more hands off plane. :) But who wants to fly hands off? That's no fun! It would also seem to me that more dehedral would result in less lift. Terry Swartz 102 hrs. since 10/10/97 sign off. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
>which means it was rigged at the factory requires me to fly the plane. >It appears to have little dihedral. Rudder input alone does affect the >banking slightly but rudder input alone would never get me out of a >steep turn. My MK III will settle back to level flight from a shallow >turn when I realese aileron pressure, but anything more than a shallow >turn requires aileron pressure to return to level flight. Maybe if the >holes in the wing struts wear I will have more dihedral and a more hands >off plane. :) But who wants to fly hands off? That's no fun! It would >also seem to me that more dehedral would result in less lift. > >Terry Swartz > >102 hrs. since 10/10/97 sign off. Terry: I theeenk I screwed up by putting bushings in the lift strut fittings. Now I won't have the luxury from inlarged holes to increase dihedral and fly hands off. I told Bro Jim not to weld those darn bushings in there. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: Tom Kuffel <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Dihedral Effect
john h: <> Terry Swartz: <> The reduction of lift in changing a wing from 0 degrees to 3 degrees dihedral in level flight is the cosine of 3 degrees = 0.999. Doubt if we could detect such a change. Also of interest regarding wing geometry: According to John Roncz, a rectangular wing can be made to develop the "optimum" eliptical loading with less than 3 degrees twist. Sure would have made it cheaper to build Spitfires. Suspect the twist is nonuniform however. Tom Kuffel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flaps on take offs???
>I would venture to say that even 1 notch of flaps on the MKIII produces >about as much drag (if not more) as lift considering it is a pusher. Two >notches (full flaps) almost certainly produces more drag than lift. > >Some guys talk about using 1 notch of flaps on a short or soft field take >off like is recommended on a Cessna and other tractor general aviation >airplanes. I have not tested it personally, but I would bet that any flaps >actually make for longer take off runs under any circumstances. Anybody out >there that has actually measured distances using or not using flaps on take >offs? Any opinions or observations? Hello Gang: I do not have any scientific evidence of what I am about to say, OK. But I do have a few hours in the MK III, mine and Kolb Aircraft's. I do fly extremely heavy at times, and I do use my flaps on almost every landing and on t/o when the situation calls for it. I do fly out of unimproved, muddy, uncut, dirt, grass, and sand strips. My MK III starts stalling about 40 MPH indicated clean, 38 with 20 degrees, and around 36 with 40 degrees of flaps. In critical situations the slower I can land the quicker I can stop. The slower I can fly and the quicker I can loose altitude will and has saved my buns and the acft's getting into extremely small areas surrounded by tall trees and power lines. On landing, I use them to maintain proficiency on their capabilities, plus it puts less wear and tear on the airframe to land slower and shorter. Taxiing an acft on the ground, especially rough ground, puts terrific loads on it. One or two notches of flaps do not make for longer ground runs. I have accidently taken off with full flaps on MK III and Sling Shot, usually at Lakeland or Oshkosh, and the acft hops right off the ground. Primarily, I use one notch, 20 degrees, to t/o rough, soft, short fields, generally with obstacles at the departure end. Depending on the situation, t/o with flaps drooped, or what I prefer (learned from the Alaska Airmens Manual) Start ground roll with full throttle, at about 30 mph indicated, snatch in full flaps, 40 degrees, and the MK III will pop right up out of the mud, tall grass, extremely rough surface, sand, rocks, or what have you. Immediately, but slowly go to first notch, 20 degrees, climb out clear of obstructions, and slowly release flaps to clean configuration. The advantages of this type t/o: Get unstuck from rough field early, slower airspeed higher angle of climb, while maintaining the acft in a more level attitude. The flaps pull the nose over. On the way home from Oshkosh this year I spent the night at Darel Stoole's ultralight strip in Washington, Indiana. It was raining when I landed just at dark and it rained until the next morning at 1030 when I departed for Alabama. My MK III was full of fuel, 150 lbs, camping gear, clothes, and equip. Winds favored a take off the the east which was up hill. Strip bordered by tall corn on the right and telephone lines and railroad on the left. Felt like there was just enough width to clear my wingtips. Turf strip was soft, wet, soggy (standing water in places) and up hill. I used the 30 mph, snatch full flaps method of t/o. If I had not had that capability I would still be waiting for the strip to dry out and the wind to reverse directions. I get the impression from some of the posts I read that flaps are there to hang from the wing and aren't really good for anything except scare you when they allow the acft to make rapid altitude losses and screw up landings and landing gear by making you land high. I firmly believe they are a tool that adds tremendous capability to an already high performance STOL acft. I couldn't learn how to use them if I had left them in the up position all the time. I had to experiment a little at a time to learn to get the "goodie" out of them. Suffering from diarhea (sp) of the mouth again, but it was the oly way I could explain what I felt need to be said, on my part, about flaps. john h PS: The stall figures above, are at altitude, out of ground effect. In ground effect, as in landing, these numbers will be reduced even more. Also in t/o's. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Thanks, John. It is nice to be have something to compare mine with. The way I have mine adjusted is with a LOT of up, and not much down. I figure I usually use more up elevator than down, unless I'm practicing my inverted low level fly-by routine ;-) Ron Carroll Original Firestar -----Original Message----- From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> Date: Thursday August 27 1998 6:07 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable > >Ron, > I checked the elevator on my Firestar II last night. It moves 8 >inches up and 10 inches down. Then I tied the stick back and checked for >"sponginess" by pressingdown on the most aft corner with my thumb. >Reasonable pressure would lower it 2 inches. Pushing hard with my thumb >lowered it 3 inches. Just to be clear, 3 inches lowered is still 5 >inches above a position "in line" with the horizontal stabilizer. I >don't know if mine is right, but I do know that it flys well and has no >problem with needing more elevator control. I hope that this helps. >John > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Subject: Spongy elevators
Hi Ron Carroll Congratulations! I assume you have finished covering and painting if you're now running in the engine. Your spongy elevator problem is very interesting and after thinking about it for a while, I agree with Ralph B. and others that it would seem to be a broken cable strand. However, if that's not it, check this out. The original FireStar uses a different elevator control system than the KX/P and FireStar I/II. The elevators use a horn (an 'L' shaped 4130 steel weldment consisting of a flat piece welded onto a tube) which fits into the aluminum leading edge tube of the elevators themselves. During rigging of the tail, you are to install (8) staggered pop rivets in each, to secure these in place. You do have these installed don't you? Otherwise the horns may be slipping inside of that tube. And also, the flat part of the horns must lie firmly in against the elevator control mechanisim, with a pin inserted, to secure the elevator horns to the control mechanisim. There should be no excessive play here either. I noted that you were concerned that excessive cable tension would cause the hinges to wear out, but the hinges won't be affected because the cable tension load is carried by the 1/4" bolt that the elevator control mechanisim pivots on. The elevator horns are just going along for the ride in their respective seated positions. But I also agree that it is not neccessary to have excessive tension on the cables. This almost seems like a puzzle or a quiz of some sort, so be sure to let us know what you eventually find out. Bill varnes Original FireStar 377 Audubon, NJ PS My FireStar is about 1 hour away from home and I hate to drive that distance unless I am going to fly. We've had poor weather and now it's about to get worse with Bonnie coming up the coast. But as soon as I can, I intend to get down there to double check my elevator action and I'll let you know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:elevator travel , FireFly
A while back I measured the elevator and hor.stab angles. H. stab, plane sitting on level hangar floor, was 6 degrees up, using aircraft surface bubble level. Elevator all the way down was 22 degrees. up was 14 degrees. Stick throw was about 11" at top of stick. Don't know what good these figures will do in helping find out about the Elevator Problem. grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: wd: Re: Kolb-List:elevator travel , FireFly]
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:15:09 -0400 From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List:elevator travel , FireFly A while back I measured the elevator and hor.stab angles. H. stab, plane sitting on level hangar floor, was 6 degrees up, using aircraft surface bubble level. Elevator all the way down was 22 degrees. up was 14 degrees. Stick throw was about 11" at top of stick. Don't know what good these figures will do in helping find out about the Elevator Problem. grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Jon, I also added "extra" dihedral when I built mine 11 years ago. The plans called for 1" from level at the last outboard rib. I added 2-5/8" which I think is perfect. The angle could be calculated since you know the length of both sides. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400 hrs writes: > > > > >>I decided to add more dihedral because that seemed like it had a >chance to >make the responses more conventional compared to GA planes which I >wanted. >Three degrees of dihedral makes my Firestar II able to fly all day >without >touching the stick. < > >Very interesting!! > >Does anyone know offhand how much dihedral is built into the stock >configuration of the Firestar??? > >Jon > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ dwegner(at)isd.net
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
From: ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM (Ralph H Burlingame)
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Ron Carroll, John J. and I have 8" up elevator from neutral and that's plenty. If you have more than that, you will be flying with a lot of forward stick and it will be hard to reach sitting back in the seat. I just got off the phone with my A&P buddy who has an Original FireStar. Two things he had to say about your FireStar: 1) the fabric will tear easier from LE to TE (or visa versa) on the wing due to its "bias ply", but it will not tear easily in the other direction along the wing. 2) this may seem like a "dumb question", but he asked if you had your elevator LE rivets installed in the elevator horn? There are about 6 rivets staggered around the horn. Also, there was an update on all Original FireStars to add a 2-1/2" aluminum gusset plate on the inboard section of the elevator where the 5/16" tube meets the LE tube. This can be added on the outside of the fabric like I did to mine. This adds strength to the elevator-to-horn area. The gusset plate can be polished to look good. Did you find any "give" in the pulley supports under and in back of the seat? Lastly, take the elevators and move them in opposite directions to see how much play there is between them. I have about an inch of play which is probably normal. I hope this helps. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400+ hrs writes: > > >Thanks, John. It is nice to be have something to compare mine with. >The way I have mine adjusted is with a LOT of up, and not much down. I >figure I usually use more up elevator than down, unless I'm practicing my >inverted low level fly-by routine ;-) > >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday August 27 1998 6:07 AM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable > > >> >>Ron, >> I checked the elevator on my Firestar II last night. It moves 8 >>inches up and 10 inches down. Then I tied the stick back and checked >>for "sponginess" by pressingdown on the most aft corner with my thumb. >>Reasonable pressure would lower it 2 inches. Pushing hard with my >>thumb lowered it 3 inches. Just to be clear, 3 inches lowered is still 5 >>inches above a position "in line" with the horizontal stabilizer. I >>don't know if mine is right, but I do know that it flys well and has >>no problem with needing more elevator control. I hope that this helps. >>John >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous)
> >Thanks, John. It is nice to be have something to compare mine with. The >way I have mine adjusted is with a LOT of up, and not much down. I figure I >usually use more up elevator than down, unless I'm practicing my inverted >low level fly-by routine ;-) > >Ron Carroll >Original Firestar > Ron, Please, not much down elevator can be very dangerous in certain situations. Example, A sudden engine out during a steep climb out. You'll need all the down elevator you can get like right now. People have "bought the farm" in this kind of situation. Excessive up elevator will never do you any good as you will simply stall the wing. Concerned, Eugene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Subject: Re: RETIRING
From: rbaker2(at)JUNO.COM (Ray L Baker)
Frank, Hurry back! I hope retirement (the next phase in your life) is as much of a kick for you as it has been/is for me. Retired April fools day 1989 L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: RETIRING
Date: Aug 27, 1998
> >Frank, > >Hurry back! I hope retirement (the next phase in your life) is as much >of a kick for you as it has been/is for me. > >Retired April fools day 1989 >L. Ray Baker >Lake Butler, FL > Dittos from me! Retired New Years Eve 1984 And can't figure out how I ever had time for work Ron Carroll > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous)
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Two excellent thoughts on the matter, Eugene. Thanks! Ron Carroll -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net> Date: Thursday August 27 1998 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous) > > >> >>Thanks, John. It is nice to be have something to compare mine with. The >>way I have mine adjusted is with a LOT of up, and not much down. I figure I >>usually use more up elevator than down, unless I'm practicing my inverted >>low level fly-by routine ;-) >> >>Ron Carroll >>Original Firestar >> > > >Ron, > >Please, not much down elevator can be very dangerous in certain situations. > >Example, A sudden engine out during a steep climb out. You'll need all the >down elevator you can get like right now. People have "bought the farm" in >this kind of situation. Excessive up elevator will never do you any good as >you will simply stall the wing. > >Concerned, >Eugene > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
Date: Aug 27, 1998
Ralph & John, I will readjust my elevator travel to 8" up, like yours are. When sitting in it I have do have to reach out a ways to get the stick. Uncomfortable! Yes, all the staggered rivets have been properly installed, but I had no knowledge of the inboard gusset plate. If you could sometime (no hurry) give the dimensions I'll ad it to the outside, as you suggested. Your A&P buddy's thoughts on the fabric tearing would answer my question, because that is exactly what happened. Maybe I'm really not nutz? Thanks again, Ralph, you have always been there for me when I needed help. Gratefully, Ron Carroll -----Original Message----- From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)JUNO.COM> Scott.Pierskalla(at)HBC.honeywell.com ; dwegner(at)isd.net Date: Thursday August 27 1998 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable > >Ron Carroll, > >John J. and I have 8" up elevator from neutral and that's plenty. If you >have more than that, you will be flying with a lot of forward stick and >it will be hard to reach sitting back in the seat. > >I just got off the phone with my A&P buddy who has an Original FireStar. >Two things he had to say about your FireStar: 1) the fabric will tear >easier from LE to TE (or visa versa) on the wing due to its "bias ply", >but it will not tear easily in the other direction along the wing. 2) >this may seem like a "dumb question", but he asked if you had your >elevator LE rivets installed in the elevator horn? There are about 6 >rivets staggered around the horn. Also, there was an update on all >Original FireStars to add a 2-1/2" aluminum gusset plate on the inboard >section of the elevator where the 5/16" tube meets the LE tube. This can >be added on the outside of the fabric like I did to mine. This adds >strength to the elevator-to-horn area. The gusset plate can be polished >to look good. Did you find any "give" in the pulley supports under and in >back of the seat? Lastly, take the elevators and move them in opposite >directions to see how much play there is between them. I have about an >inch of play which is probably normal. I hope this helps. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original FireStar 400+ hrs > > > > writes: >> >> >>Thanks, John. It is nice to be have something to compare mine with. >>The way I have mine adjusted is with a LOT of up, and not much down. I >>figure I usually use more up elevator than down, unless I'm practicing >my >>inverted low level fly-by routine ;-) >> >>Ron Carroll >>Original Firestar >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> >>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >>Date: Thursday August 27 1998 6:07 AM >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable >> >> >>> >>>Ron, >>> I checked the elevator on my Firestar II last night. It moves 8 >>>inches up and 10 inches down. Then I tied the stick back and checked >>>for "sponginess" by pressingdown on the most aft corner with my thumb. >>>Reasonable pressure would lower it 2 inches. Pushing hard with my >>>thumb lowered it 3 inches. Just to be clear, 3 inches lowered is still >5 >>>inches above a position "in line" with the horizontal stabilizer. I >>>don't know if mine is right, but I do know that it flys well and has >>>no problem with needing more elevator control. I hope that this helps. >>>John >>> >>> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Undelivered Mail
> >Hi Group: I'm a little puzzled here. ( What else is new ?? ) I got a >kickback on undelivered mail, on the message to Woody, and the one to Ron. >Apparently Woody's got through, since he answered it. Duh. Did the one to >Ron about the elevators go through, too ?? Big Lar. > >Hey big Lar I just got 2 messages bounced back to me.They made the list but one member had his message bounce back to me. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Puttin on the hours!
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Whew! I took off Tuesday and Wednesday to do some X-Country. Put on 7.2 hours in a day and a half. I have had my Firestar flyable for four weeks and have racked up a total of 34.4 hours. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Puttin on the hours!
Rut, 34 hours in a month? Wow! Do you have a card that says "HAVE FIRESTAR, WILL TRAVEL"? John Jung > >Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > Whew! I took off Tuesday and Wednesday to do some X-Country. Put on > 7.2 hours in a day and a half. I have had my Firestar flyable for four > weeks and have racked up a total of 34.4 hours. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: Ron Hoyt <RONALD.R.HOYT@gd-is.com>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable
Ron I checked my MarkIII last night for "sponginess" after reading this discussion and found the following. Free play due to bolt between elevator horn and elevator control horn is approximately 1/2" at the trailing edge of the elevators. This is consistent with Ralph Burlingame measurement of 1" of differential movement between elevators. If I hold the stick ridged and have someone push on the elevator trailing edge they can cause slack to form in the return cables when they reach approximately 2 inches. The cables limit the further deflection when approximately 3 inches are reached. There was no movement in the control horn coupled to the stick or the push pull tube pivots at the extreme deflection of the elevators. This last assessment is subjective because I could not hold the stick still very well against the forces from the elevator. One more sample for comparison Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Puttin on the hours!
Date: Aug 28, 1998
You are about as lucky as a friend who restored a Carrera and got it back in the air the end of May. Since then he has racked up about 110 hours. Lucky guys, I'll get even, but who know when? Ron Carroll Original Firestar -----Original Message----- From: Rutledge Fuller <rut007(at)hotmail.com> Date: Friday August 28 1998 4:43 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Puttin on the hours! > >Whew! I took off Tuesday and Wednesday to do some X-Country. Put on >7.2 hours in a day and a half. I have had my Firestar flyable for four >weeks and have racked up a total of 34.4 hours. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Hi John, You wrote: >Vince: Very interesting. I only have experience with wings rigged to >Homer's standards. By increasing dihedral, have you decreased performance? > How much increase in inches to get 3 degree increase in dihedral measured >at the outboard rib? > >john h A very reasonable question. Sorry I didn't think to include that information the first time. I raised the outer tip of the wing 10" above the inboard edge. This turns out to be about 3.5 degrees I think. By the way, on my Firestar II that means the lift struts needed to be 2-1/4" longer than the standard setup. Because my plane is folded in storage, I can't easily measure at the outboard rib at this time, but it will be about 9" or a little more. You are right that I have given up a little performance. At the time, I made some estimates and as I recall it was a trivial amount. The amount of dihedral was not optimized, either. Because I had to purchase parts to make the new lift struts, I made them at the longest I could imagine would be needed so they could be shortened if needed. I liked the way it flew with the 2-1/4" longer strut and did not experiment further. As you can imagine, the wings are noticeably canted up. Some have wondered if this is a problem in a cross wind with getting the wind under the wing and raising it. I have set the plane sidewise to an 11 knot wind on an airport ramp to see what happens. Then by trying to lift the up-wind and down-wind wing tip, I decided the wind at 11 knots puts little lift on the up-sloped wing. Regards, Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Puttin on the hours!
Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > Whew! I took off Tuesday and Wednesday to do some X-Country. Put on > 7.2 hours in a day and a half. I have had my Firestar flyable for four > weeks and have racked up a total of 34.4 hours. > > Hi Gang: Sounds like a young fellow I knew about 14 years ago. hehehe Sorry I could join you. We'll get together soon. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolb Dihedral
Vince Nicely wrote: > > Vince: Have you had an opportunity to fly a Kob rigged to standard dihedral so you can compare the flying qualities of both systems? Would be interested to hear flight characteristics both ways. I have no experience flying any acft with dihedral. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Subject: Instruments for FS I
After taking my USUA dual instruction and soloing, I decided after careful consideration that my plane would be a FS I. After a short search for one with low time and near-by, I was lucky enough to get a call from a gentleman in Winston-Salem, NC who had a 95% completed FS ll for sale because of bad health. I bought the plane & trucked it back to SC. During the trip a box of parts contacted the wing & it got a 6" rip chord-wise, on top, between the last rib & wingtip. Could this be sewn up with a big curved needle & thread & then a dacron strip glued over the seam & then painted, or what?? Am about to order instruments & am considering installing the following, L to R: EIS Digital w/ dual CHT, dual EGT, Tach, Hour meter & some other stuff ASI ALT COMPASS Oh, yeah... I will install a 503DCDI w/ Elec. start. Can I fit all of that on my panel? Best source to get the EIS? Maybe direct from the manufacturer? What brand for the rest? I see a bunch of different brands in UL Flying Mag. & would like to know best bang for the buck. Elec. starter... a friend has the GPL unit a swears by it, and I like the idea of being able to also keep my pull-start. Any comments?? I'm thinking of using a Warp Drive 2 Blade Prop w/ the nice Hub; anybody got a better idea? If anyone has any suggestions regarding this plane I will certainly appreciate them. Nota lot of Kolb owners this neck of woods to talk to. Hope to be in the air within 30 days. Thanks Howard Shackleford [Shack] FS l Lexington, SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Instruments for FS I
In a message dated 8/28/98 5:43:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HShack(at)AOL.COM writes: << w/ dual CHT, dual EGT >> Dual EGT and dual CHT are the key guages for preventing seizure. Seizure is the principal thing that makes rotax engines stop when you don't want them to. Guages are cheap insurance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Instruments for FS I
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
> >After taking my USUA dual instruction and soloing, I decided after >careful: Howard, regarding keeping the rope starter with electric start. Don't let that be a factor in deciding what type of starter to get. You will find that with the rope starter, it is impossible to restart a 503 while in the pilots seat. And if your battery is dead before you fly, so that you can't use your electric start. Than that problem should be resolved before you fly anyway. My 2 cents worth Bob Doebler > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 1998
From: Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: New Kolb Video
To all, I just saw the new (new to me at least) video that Kolb company has produced to promote their different designs. It was about 23 minutes long. There was a lot of good flying footage showing the best utility of each design as well as some very good footage of builders/flyers recommendations presented very sincerely and honestly about the planes and the company. Construction and materials details were discussed with each design. It made me want to build one all over again. Later, -- Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50.5 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments for FS I
Date: Aug 28, 1998
Not necessarily so---- I got the one that keeps the rope, I like it. Redundency is good on occasion. I hadn;t flown mine in a long time and I use the (18 amp) battery to power my gas pump. Ran the battery down, rope starter allowed me to fly. The charging system does quite well. It was much like driving yur car to charge the battery. Its hard to get someone to push start one of those suckers."-) Larry ---------- > From: Robert L Doebler <bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instruments for FS I > Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 6:54 PM > > > > > > >After taking my USUA dual instruction and soloing, I decided after > >careful: > > Howard, regarding keeping the rope starter with electric start. Don't let > that be a factor in deciding what type of starter to get. You will find > that with the rope starter, it is impossible to restart a 503 while in > the pilots seat. And if your battery is dead before you fly, so that you > can't use your electric start. Than that problem should be resolved > before you fly anyway. > My 2 cents worth > Bob Doebler > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank & Winnie Hodson" <fwhodson(at)megalink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments for FS I
Date: Aug 29, 1998
SHACK: Congratulations on your choice of aircraft! About the repair of the six inch rip: follow the STITS/POLYFIBER repair routine as outlined in the covering manual. BTW if you order the polyfiber practice kit you will probably have sufficient materials to complete the repair correctly. One source for these is Aircraft Spruce East @ 1-800-831-2949 The Polyfiber practice kit is about $20 and probably includes the "How To" manual, if not the manual will cost another $5 approx. Frank Hodson, Oxford ME ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Instruments for FS I
On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 HShack(at)aol.com wrote: > & wingtip. Could this be sewn up with a big curved needle & thread & then a > dacron strip glued over the seam & then painted, or what?? Howard, Take Frank's advice on using Stits patching methods. It is discussed in the Stits manual that came with the kit. Needle and thread is worse than useless here. I had a hangar (garage) mishap before my plane was completed, which put a similar tear in my wing. I was able to patch it so that I'm the only one that can find it. I used several iterations of spraying polyspray and sanding around the patch edge to feather it in. BTW, on your other choices, all look good to me. I personally would not add the weight of a starter and battery on a 503. They rope start easily and there is very little point in starting from the pilot's seat unless you're on floats. Save those pounds for STOL performance! I have the Warp prop with AL hub. I've been happy with it altho never flew anything else on this plane to compare to. I've been told that a wood prop is 1-2 lbs lighter, and sometimes I've wondered if I woulda been happy just getting wood. By now I rarely change prop pitch. For the 'money is no object' prop, look at PowerFin. Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Electric Starters and 2-strokes
edu> >BTW, on your other choices, all look good to me. I personally would not >add the weight of a starter and battery on a 503. They rope start easily >and there is very little point in starting from the pilot's seat unless >you're on floats. Save those pounds for STOL performance! I have the >Warp prop with AL hub. I've been happy with it altho never flew anything >else on this plane to compare to. I've been told that a wood prop is >1-2 lbs lighter, and sometimes I've wondered if I woulda been happy just >getting wood. By now I rarely change prop pitch. For the 'money is no Howdy Ben and Gang: If you want to have a restart capability in the air, I highly recommend a "self comencer" as my old Ultrastar buddy, now deceased, Ed Davis used to say. Reasons: a. If you would like to play around at altitude, engine off, get a starter. b. If, by chance, you should loose the eng at idle on a approach to final and you see you are a little short, it is nice to be able to reach over, hit the starter, and fly over the fence rather than thru it. Had it happen in the Firestar at Roanoke Regional AP, Va, in 1989. Lucky I had all that pavement under and ahead of me. Had to get out of cockpit in the middle of this huge runway and restart to taxi tiedown. My first eng off landing in the Firestar was not planned. Brand new acft with a in seat, in air, restart capability. Shut down at 3,000, glided to 2,000, restarted with the trusty pull rope. That was great, could never done that in the Ultrastar. Always had to land and get out and retart. Climbed to 5,000 this time. Shut down, what a blast, glided to 2,000, time to restart, eng cold as ice, noway, first eng off landing in the outback. Luckily, I had planned for a possibility of no restart and was flying over a nice sized hay field. I think the added weight of the starter and battery will be like the 21 lb prcht I have flown with since the first flight of my MK III. It is part of the airplane, I don't know the added weight is there. It is convenient, it adds to safety. My own personal opinion, with much humility. hehehe john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Warp Drive vs Wood Props
Hello again you all: Just a quick word on Warp Drive and wooden props. I have used both quite extensively. The ultimate combination on my Firestar was an original Jim Culver two blade woode prop with inlaid polyurethane edge. It was a perfect match up for my eng and airplane. CRS the pitch and diameter. Only problem I ever had with this prop was common to most wodd props: Balance. I made it a habit to paint all my naturally finished wood props with flat black spray can paint. This covered those occassional digs from FOD flying off the airplane and thru the prop. Easy to do and looked good enough to win two grand champ awards and S&F and OSH. My favorite prop to date is my Warp Drive prop. I flew the first for around 600 hours and then put an 18 inch piece of 1 inch exhaust pipe thru it at WOT. It dinged the blade (one) and that was all. It was a sponsored prop so I sent it back for them to study (and the hub) and they sent me a new one, which has over 600 hours on it. Had I not been sponsored for the prop I would have gotten out the JB Weld, patched, sanded, and painted flat black, and kept on flying. I am tough on airplanes and tough on props. If you read my article about the 1994 flight you know what I am talking about. I have never had to retorque or rebalance either of three Warp Drive Props I have owned (had one on the MK III when I was powered by 582). It takes a lot of irritating little problems out of flying. I do recommend the nickle leading edge for rain and debris errosion of the carbon fiber blade. It ain't nickle tape, it is molded in nickle sheet metal. If Warp Drive didn't sponsor me with props, I'd buy one. They have a lifetime warranty. Beautiful day in sunny Alabama, but it is too hot to play with Miss P'fer today, maybe late this evening. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral
> >Hi John, >You wrote: >>Vince: Very interesting. I only have experience with wings rigged to >>Homer's standards. By increasing dihedral, have you decreased performance? >> How much increase in inches to get 3 degree increase in dihedral measured >>at the outboard rib? >> >>john h >A very reasonable question. Sorry I didn't think to include that information >the first time. > >I raised the outer tip of the wing 10" above the inboard edge. This turns >out to be about 3.5 degrees I think. By the way, on my Firestar II that >means the lift struts needed to be 2-1/4" longer than the standard setup. >Because my plane is folded in storage, I can't easily measure at the >outboard rib at this time, but it will be about 9" or a little more. > >You are right that I have given up a little performance. At the time, I >made some estimates and as I recall it was a trivial amount. The amount of >dihedral was not optimized, either. Because I had to purchase parts to make >the new lift struts, I made them at the longest I could imagine would be >needed so they could be shortened if needed. I liked the way it flew with >the 2-1/4" longer strut and did not experiment further. > >As you can imagine, the wings are noticeably canted up. Some have wondered >if this is a problem in a cross wind with getting the wind under the wing >and raising it. I have set the plane sidewise to an 11 knot wind on an >airport ramp to see what happens. Then by trying to lift the up-wind and >down-wind wing tip, I decided the wind at 11 knots puts little lift on the >up-sloped wing. > >Regards, >Vince > > Vince, How has the extra dihedral affected cross control, like a side slip? Does the rudder now overpower the ailerons? EZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral
Date: Aug 29, 1998
John H, Please see comments below. I would be interested in how the experience I relate below sounds compared to the variety of Kolb airplanes you have flown. -----Original Message----- From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 1:00 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Dihedral >Have you had an opportunity to fly a Kob rigged to standard dihedral so you can >compare the flying qualities of both systems? > Yes. I flew my Firestar II for the first 39 hours rigged with the standard dihedral, i.e., wing tips raised 1". I took a ride in the factory Mark III several years ago, but really got no feel for it in a short ride. Have no other experience in Kolb airplanes. >Would be interested to hear flight characteristics both ways. > The airplane was tested for flight characteristics according to the suggestions of Vaughn Askue in his book, "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft". I worked through his suggest procedures systematically, and by the time I got to testing dihedral and such the airplane was otherwise trimmed and flying according to expectations. I noted two undesirable characteristics in the standardly rigged airplane. Below are some quotes from my test notebook describing the behavior while it was fresh in my mind. (N8233g) Firestar II With Standard Dihedral- Wing tips up 1": Dihedral Effect. "As the plane begins to roll (left or right), a small rudder input can correct the roll. However, if much rudder control is needed, the input of rudder adds significant drag, the nose of the plane comes up and the plane slows. Then, the roll will stop. However, if the stick is pushed forward and speed is maintained, then the rudder is effective in stopping the roll even at relatively large bank angles( say 30-45 degrees)" These notes remind me that I found the rudder effective at controlling roll if I compensated for the extra drag. The notes do not say, and I can not remember if it would recover to unbanked without aileron input. Spiral Mode. Askue says: "Spiral stability is the tendency for an airplane to change its angle of bank in a turn". My notebook says of the Firestar II, " When put in a shallow turn in either direction, the turn tends to tighten with neutral controls. The amount of bank will double in about 10 seconds." Askue labels this as strongly unstable (divergent) and suggests it is unacceptable because of what might happen if you were distracted at certain phases of flight. Further more he suggests the main fix is to increase dihedral. Because the control pressures in the Firestar II are light and most of us naturally use all three controls together, I suspect most people, including myself, will not notice the above tendencies unless they both have a carefully trimmed airplane and put it through the hands-off test procedures. >I have no experience flying any acft with dihedral. > (N8233G) Firestar II with 3.5 degrees Dihedral - Wing tips up 10" Dihedral Effect: With the airplane trimmed, the rudder will cause the airplane to bank and unbank in either direction without touching the stick. The rudder works like this in all normal flight conditions up to at least 30 degrees, but I have not tested how it works in a steep bank. However, large rudder inputs still noticably increase the drag, but they are not needed for normal flight. Spiral Stability: N8233g now maintains its bank angle or may slowly decrease the bank angle with neutral controls. I find that with the increase dihedral, N8233G will fly all day with only throttle and rudder inputs and with hands off the stick. With hands on the stick, it is little if any different than before the dihedral was changed. For those who have flown Cessna airplanes, the directional stability and rudder control are very similar to those of a Cessna 152 or 172. >john h > Hope this makes sense. I welcome any comments or questions. Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Subject: Re: dihedral
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Eugene, See below: ----Original Message----- From: Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net> Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: dihedral , >How has the extra dihedral affected cross control, like a side slip? Does >the rudder now overpower the ailerons? > >EZ I have noticed no effect on cross wind landings. I have landed in upto 10 kts directly across grass runway with no problem and did not need nearly full rudder. I do not have a good before and after comparison for slip to lose altitude so can only comment on with dihedral. The rudder can overpower the aileron. I can use full aileron and full rudder. Then, when the direction starts to drift, I back off the rudder a little. Do you use slips much other than cross wind landings? Do you find them effect for losing extra altitude? I have not used them much, but perhaps I should practice. Vince -> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral
Vince and Gang: Yourexperience flying the standard rigged Firestar sounds right to me. How do you maintain pitch control when you are flying hands off in your airplane? Is it stable in pitch as well as roll? My MK III keeps me flying it all the time, however, there are certain conditions where I can get it trimmed up in pitch, as in a climb, or descent, and it will fly hands off, but no way will it recover from any divergent roll from wings level more than a few degrees, and then iffy. I don't mind this and have flown many XC hours, some over very boring terrain, having trouble staying awake, even with an unstable airplane. Probably get a good nap with a stable one. hahaha I would like to fly a kolb with a lot of dihedral to feel the difference. I maight like it. Maybe Dennis Souder will have some comment on dihedral and Kolbs. Thanks for your input, Vince. I appreciate it. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ceekstrand(at)lightspeed.net
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Subject: BRS parachute mounting info
________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ re: Kolb 1997 Firestar II A friend without access to the internet is a builder and flyer of the Firestar II. He is interested in adding a BRS chute to his aircraft. 1. Which model is best for him given the following restrictions? 2. How would it mount? He is restricted to a maximum of 15" above the aircraft as the Kolb is trailered, with the wings folded, to the flying site. Also, as the wings are unfolded and folded each time he flies he is concerned with how the chute would mount in the wing gap and still leave access for the pin installation and removal each time the wings are unfolded and folded. Any input for his followup and investigation would be helpful. Thank you, Chuck (__) ,---------. NOTE: The preceding message was sent via Jaek and (oo) | :\/: _ _ \ Jon's WWW mail cow gateway. That is to say, the /-------\/_/ : :: :: : ) person who sent this message could in fact be an / | MAIL|| \_ ' '`-'`-'/ anonymous prankster. Even though this message was ^^ ^^ could have been generated by anyone in the world. Please keep this in mind. Thank you! --Jaek (smit2204) and -Jon- (stei0302) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ceekstrand(at)lightspeed.net
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Subject: BRS parachute mounting info
________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ re: Kolb 1997 Firestar II A friend without access to the internet is a builder and flyer of the Firestar II. He is interested in adding a BRS chute to his aircraft. 1. Which model is best for him given the following restrictions? 2. How would it mount? He is restricted to a maximum of 15" above the aircraft as the Kolb is trailered, with the wings folded, to the flying site. Also, as the wings are unfolded and folded each time he flies he is concerned with how the chute would mount in the wing gap and still leave access for the pin installation and removal each time the wings are unfolded and folded. Any input for his followup and investigation would be helpful. Thank you, Chuck (__) ,---------. NOTE: The preceding message was sent via Jaek and (oo) | :\/: _ _ \ Jon's WWW mail cow gateway. That is to say, the /-------\/_/ : :: :: : ) person who sent this message could in fact be an / | MAIL|| \_ ' '`-'`-'/ anonymous prankster. Even though this message was ^^ ^^ could have been generated by anyone in the world. Please keep this in mind. Thank you! --Jaek (smit2204) and -Jon- (stei0302) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: The end (R&D)
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Hello again, First I'd like to say- get a starter, get a starter, get a starter!!!!! I will never own another engine that must be started with a rope. I wish Ben had been here to show me how easy it was to start my 503 today :-) Now, onto the R&D news. As you may recall from my last message, after installing larger jets in the carbs, I attempted to start the engine when the rope broke. Today, I replaced the rope and hauled the plane outside to assume the position (tied to a tree). For some reason, the engine was very hard to start. Not only did it not want to start, but the rope seemed like it took about twice the effort I'm used to. I finally pulled a plug out of each cylinder to make sure there wasn't any extra friction, and everything seemed fine. Once I put the plugs back in, a few more yanks was all it took to get continuous noise. Did the new jets give me the extra power I was looking for- silly question- of course not. Today's static rpm was 6260, which is a whole 10 rpm more than the stock Rotax muffler gave. The plugs looked just about perfect after the run, so I can't imagine that I'm off by much on the jetting. I didn't even bother to fly it. I also noted that the dead spot between 4300 and 5200 rpm was worse than before. What does this all mean? Probably the end of flight for my SS. I'm currently planning to remove the engine for sale, drain the fuel, and fold the plane up in the corner of the hanger. Either I'll find someone that wants to buy a "SlingShot project" minus engine and registration for $9k, or I'll just plan to get back to it with another engine after the RV-8 is finished. Russell Duffy Navarre, FL Kolb SlingShot N8754K (no longer airworthy) RV-8, 80587 (tanks-Yuck) rad(at)pen.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ceekstrand(at)lightspeed.net
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Subject: Mojave, Ca. Kolb builer/pilot
________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________ I need assistance in contacting a young man who lives/lived in Mojave, Ca., worked at Advanced Composites, and flies to Kernville, Ca. from time to time. A local Kolb builder/flyer would like to make contact to set up joint flights in the Kolb's. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Chuck (__) ,---------. NOTE: The preceding message was sent via Jaek and (oo) | :\/: _ _ \ Jon's WWW mail cow gateway. That is to say, the /-------\/_/ : :: :: : ) person who sent this message could in fact be an / | MAIL|| \_ ' '`-'`-'/ anonymous prankster. Even though this message was ^^ ^^ could have been generated by anyone in the world. Please keep this in mind. Thank you! --Jaek (smit2204) and -Jon- (stei0302) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 1998
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
From: mefine1(at)JUNO.COM (Mick Fine)
> > ...What does this all mean? Probably the end of flight for my SS. I'm >currently >planning to remove the engine for sale, drain the fuel, and fold the >plane up in >the corner of the hanger. .... Rusty, C'mon man! You've still got a very nice aircraft. You're just kickin' yourself in the a** because you spent some "discretionary funds" on an experiment that doesn't seem to be producing the desired results at the moment. I'm not sure but didn't you crank-in some more pitch on your prop? If so, your'e moving more air with the static RPM being about equal to what the stock exhaust was but maybe I'm confused(?). Of course it could be I'm overly optimistic - having sold my C2 today! The new owner flew it to it's new home in Wichita and I just talked to him on the phone, he and I are both very happy. Owning a Challenger is like owning a boat, one of the happiest days of your life is the day you sell it! -Mick Fine Tulsa, Oklahoma http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO) http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: BRS parachute mounting info
My friend has same plane with a VLS 750.... it's a beautiful thing! Howard Shackleford SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: QD Pi [FS l]
Hi, List. Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquireys about tear in Stits, instruments, props, & electric start. Since my good wife, Judy, was kind enough to pay for my new FS I, it will be known from here on as "QD Pi", my wife's pet name. It's the least I can do.... After spending most of the day in near 100 degree heat at my airfield doing a lot of hanger flying, I have concluded the following: 1. I'm a lucky man; found new friend at airport who will fix my rip in wing [properly] including paint,etc. in about 2 hours. 2. Will go with Westach instruments except engine management by EIS 3. Will probably go with GPL Elec, starter , maybe Christmas. 4. Will use Warp Drive 3 Blade taper tip. I am a big 'ole guy & value STOL more than speed. 5. I will BRS with VLS , maybe Father's Day. 6. I will have brakes with the hand lever instead of the heel deals. 7. I will send my muffler off to be coated with some exotic material but I will not put on an R & D pipe. 8. I will probably go with a "C" Box, but I don't know what ratio with the 3 blade & what diameter. Inputs appreciated... Howard Shackleford [Shack] FS l Lexington, SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Kolbers: Whilst most of you are obviously out soaring like eagles and scurrying back and forth between your aircraft and your PC to trade electrifying stories of aeronautical prowess, or to argue the finer, more arcane, technical niceties of Kolbesque aeronautical engineering, I feel compelled to point out that there are some numbers of us miserable wretches out here a'sufferin.... Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up this crap immediately, droolin' juice from yesterday's dried-out cigar onto the now battered and fuzzed-up plans, marveling at artfully welded parts that never seem to exactly fit, and trying (without success) to remember exactly what day it was that it finally dawned on us that this airplane building fit had assumed FULL control of what we had heretofore laughingly referred to as our lives..." As the more astute among you might have suspected by now, I gotta little problem here, (am beginning to show the early signs of minor frustration, gotta get a grip...) and I was hoping that one of you gents who had successfully negotiated this particular process might be kind enough to help me out with a bit of technical advice.... Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... (yep, they are different...) I'll bet some of you are thinking, " that goon probably mixed up the elevator horns with the drag strut fittings..." Naw, the goon checked that first...... both of the ones in the elevators are the same size and fit snugly into their respective .875 x .035 tubes... and besides, the plans don't mention anything about different specifications for the two sets of parts... I tried to call the factory Saturday, but I was too late to catch anyone there... So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of the Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give me an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll just open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... thanks fer listenin' Bill Tuton Brandon,FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
<< . So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of the Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give me an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll just open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... thanks fer listenin' Bill Tuton Brandon,FL >> Bill, don't you dare give up!!!.....................and to think that when I look back to '91 when I built my Firestar, I actually tell people it was one of the happiest periods of my life....of course, I had the opportunity to build it to the tune of Garth Brooks making his mark on history with "Low Places"...............maybe that was really the reason for my fondness of the period........or maybe my tubes actually did slip "lovingly" into one another...............I can only remember the successes, I guess, and my Firestar is still a real ramification of that singular effort that I will always be proud of............. GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: spins, was ...
<< George, or GeoR38, I want to commend you on the upgrade you did on you FS or FX or what ever you call that? the two Mcoy.035 model airplane engines you put on there really sound good and the performance is so much better than the 1938 washing machine motor you had on there, maybe some day you will keep up with my MKIII. Frank M---- >> I merely ask you , Frank, .....what's wrong with 1938?...............GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RETIRING
<< To all the Kolbers out there, After 40 years in the military service 6 with the 82 airborne and 34 with the air force I am retiring acutually getting booted out. So this week will be my last nickles worth of input to the Kolb news until I get on line with my home computer since I can't use my goverment computer anymore. I got a lot of good information from this e-mail except for GeoR38's and his stinkin glider info. Keep the information flowing. Frank Marino >> Frank.......I'd like to say , I hate to see you leave us ............but I'm afraid all this means is I will see MORE of you at the hangar..........we love ya buddy........GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2023
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: BRS parachute mounting info
Chuck, My Firestar II has the chute in the gap seal and it is only slightly more difficult to insert the pins. It doesnt't take longer than 10 minutes to fold though. John Jung Firestar II N6163J 53.9 hrs SE Wisconsin > >ceekstrand(at)lightspeed.net wrote: snip... Also, as the wings are unfolded and folded each time he flies he is concerned with how the chute would mount in the wing gap and still leave access for the pin installation and removal each time the wings are unfolded and folded. > > Any input for his followup and investigation would be helpful. > > Thank you, > Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Dihedral Effect
<< Also of interest regarding wing geometry: According to John Roncz, a rectangular wing can be made to develop the "optimum" eliptical loading with less than 3 degrees twist. Sure would have made it cheaper to build Spitfires. Suspect the twist is nonuniform however. Tom Kuffel >> as an afficiondo of the Great One (war)....I read somewhere that it took 3 times longer to build a Spitfire than an ME-109. ..........both very hi performance craft!!....GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2023
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Bill, If I remember corectly, I had to drill out my drag struts so that the end piece would slide in. I recall it being a 3/4 inch drill, but I may be wrong. It would be nice if the plans would give us a warning about things like that. Sorry about the problem, but I did enjoy reading your post. John Jung Firestar II N6163J ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Full Stalls Still Waiting
<< Jon, I also added "extra" dihedral when I built mine 11 years ago. The plans called for 1" from level at the last outboard rib. I added 2-5/8" which I think is perfect. The angle could be calculated since you know the length of both sides. Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar 400 hrs >> For stability, I also added 1 inch to each side...........hey!, can't hurt!............GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous)
<< Ron, Please, not much down elevator can be very dangerous in certain situations. Example, A sudden engine out during a steep climb out. You'll need all the down elevator you can get like right now. People have "bought the farm" in this kind of situation. Excessive up elevator will never do you any good as you will simply stall the wing. Concerned, Eugene >> "Already happened to me in a different airplane.....I agree.....100%................GeiR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBIRDII(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
Mick Congrats - finally got rid of it. Does this mean the Kolb TS project will speed up? Finished painting house yesterday!! Next project? To get back in the air. Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
John: I considered drilling out the drag strut tubes, but thought that would possibly weaken them too much, given the fair amount of material which would have to come off the walls... that would be especially troublesome on the one receiving the .935 inch (the larger of the two) fittings... I don't have any feel for how much of that .125 wall thickness is actually required to meet design loads... but I suspect almost all of it.... thanks for your thoughts; I may well end up doing exactly as you suggest... Bill -----Original Message----- From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 4:46 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > >Bill, > If I remember corectly, I had to drill out my drag struts so that the >end piece would slide in. I recall it being a 3/4 inch drill, but I may >be wrong. It would be nice if the plans would give us a warning about >things like that. Sorry about the problem, but I did enjoy reading your >post. >John Jung >Firestar II N6163J > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
George: Naw, I ain't planning to give up... I wouldn't give my Bride the satisfaction of watching me clear all this mess out of the garage.... just so she could put her car back in there... Actually I am fairly well along... everything is built and I'm to the point of trying to hang and align the wings on the cage.... that's when I came across this little inconvenience with the end fittings...which I am sure will work out when I get a little more information... By the way, congratulations on your retirement from the military... that's an honorable thing for a man to do with his life and 40 years is sure one helluva commitment. Hope retirement is good to ya. Bill -----Original Message----- From: GeoR38(at)aol.com < Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:58 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > > ><< . So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of the > Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give me > an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If so, > how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll just > open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly > manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... > > thanks fer listenin' > > Bill Tuton > Brandon,FL >> > >Bill, don't you dare give up!!!.....................and to think that when I >look back to '91 when I built my Firestar, I actually tell people it was one >of the happiest periods of my life....of course, I had the opportunity to >build it to the tune of Garth Brooks making his mark on history with "Low >Places"...............maybe that was really the reason for my fondness of the >period........or maybe my tubes actually did slip "lovingly" into one >another...............I can only remember the successes, I guess, and my >Firestar is still a real ramification of that singular effort that I will >always be proud of............. GeoR38 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
<< Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... (yep, they are different...) >> Hi Bill, You are correct, there are two sizes: the larger dia for the elevators, and the smaller for the drag strut. We ream the aluminum drag strut tubes supplied in the kit for the drag strut fitting to fit properly. Either your drag strut was not reamed or you put the reamed end at the outboard end. Probably the best fix at this point is for us to make you a custom set of drag strut fittings that will fit your tube. If this seems the best to you, let me know and we'll send them out. Sorry for the frustration this has caused. Dennis Souder Pres Kolb Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
<< Hello again, First I'd like to say- get a starter, get a starter, get a starter!!!!! I will never own another engine that must be started with a rope. I wish Ben had been here to show me how easy it was to start my 503 today :-) Ours usually starts in 4-5 pulls. I have heard from many who say it starts with the first pull if you install a primer. For some reason, the engine was very hard to start. Not only did it not want to start, but the rope seemed like it took about twice the effort I'm used to. Possibly you installed a nylon rope instead of dacron. Nylon is like a bungee cord, esp when used to replace a starter cord in a 503! What does this all mean? Probably the end of flight for my SS. Oh no, Rusty - you didn't have to trade in your stock Rotax muffler system for the R & D, did you?? Hang in their Rusty - don't give up the ship yet!! Dennis Souder Pres Kolb Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frcole(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Fly-in
Just returned from a great little fly in at Tommy George's fly park a few miles south of Springfield Illinois. I recommend it for next year. Our trip there took 3 hours because of headwind and a thirsty Phantom requiring several stops, the benefit is that you meet the nicest people on the way. A hundred mile trip is my max but Gary Youngblood was there all the way from Kentucky (How do you do that Gary ?) . I returned home the same evening with a non stop flight of 1.7 hours and 5 gallons! One strange thing was that I stayed at 3500 on the return trip to get smooth air but was suprised when passing about 15 miles downwind of St.Louis when it got real rowdy until I was past it. I suppose city's act like trees on a bigger scale out here in the flatlands? Dick C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
>Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor >in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' >like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional >PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up >this crap immediately, droolin' juice from yesterday's dried-out cigar onto >the now battered and fuzzed-up plans, marveling at artfully welded parts >that never seem to exactly fit, and trying (without success) to remember >exactly what day it was that it finally dawned on us that this airplane >building fit had assumed FULL control of what we had heretofore laughingly >referred to as our lives..." Hey Bill, If you're trying to cheer me up, it's working :-) Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
Date: Aug 30, 1998
>C'mon man! You've still got a very nice aircraft. You're just kickin' >yourself in the a** because you spent some "discretionary funds" on an >experiment that doesn't seem to be producing the desired results at the >moment. I'm just facing the fact that the SS isn't what I want to spend my time and money on right now. Even if the R&D pipe had worked out to be everything it claimed to be, I still wouldn't be happy. It's time to move on. >I'm not sure but didn't you crank-in some more pitch on your prop? If so, >your'e moving more air with the static RPM being about equal to what the >stock exhaust was but maybe I'm confused(?). Yes, I added pitch, but this brings the prop back to a known point where I have data from the Rotax system. >Of course it could be I'm overly optimistic - having sold my C2 today! Glad to hear the deal went through. Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net>
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
Date: Aug 30, 1998
>Possibly you installed a nylon rope instead of dacron. Nylon is like a bungee >cord, esp when used to replace a starter cord in a 503! This may be true, but I took the original rope (not the skinny one included with the SS kit) as a comparison. I also tried to compare the stretch from the original to the new one. Either way, no more ropes for me. >Oh no, Rusty - you didn't have to trade in your stock Rotax muffler system for >the R & D, did you?? > >Hang in their Rusty - don't give up the ship yet!! I still have the original muffler, but what purpose would it serve to re-install it? I'm bored with the plane in it's current configuration, and I'm unwilling to spend the time and money to change it. Selling the plane with engine won't get any more money since nobody really wants a 503 on a SS, and it will probably open me up to more liability if I sell a complete "airworthy" plane. I can sell the engine, pack up the airframe, then decide what to do with it while I'm working on my RV-8. This still sounds like the most reasonable plan to me. Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Mornin' Dennis... I should have known I would screw this up if there were any way an adult human could do so... For whatever it's worth, the other ends of the drag struts came pre-cut at an angle to fit against the spar at the lift-strut fitting, so I son't believe I am working with the wrong end of the tubes... As a matter of fact, both inboard tube ends do show signs of having been reamed, but according to the better quality caliper and superior skills of my retired civil engineer neighbor, they are only reamed out to .758. In contrast, he measures the smaller of the two uninstalled fittings I have here to be .803 outside diameter (with epoxy primer). I would appreciate the custom fittings; I don't have the equipment to ream the tubes out any further and I suspect that grinding on these 4130 fittings is a non-starter for several good reasons... will ship them back to you. One other question... Am still puzzled and trying to sort out the fittings installed in the elevators, because I would be concerned about leaving an undersized one in an elevator... They both seem tight and absolutely identical in appearance. Looking through the holes drilled for the hinges, I can see no significant gap between the outer aluminum tubes and the fittings on either elevator. As an experiment, I then tried to fit the larger of the two remaining uninstalled fittings (it measures .835 O.D., not .935 as my original message typo indicated) into the other end of the .875 x .035 elevator tube and it isn't even close to going in... the aluminum elevator tube mikes at .804 inside diameter, roughly what one would expect subtracting the total.070 wall thickness from the .875 outside diameter... Anyway, I plan to leave the two steel fittings installed in the elevators, as is, unless you can see a reason to remove them... Based on what I can observe, I wouldn't know which one to drill out anyway... Thanks for your rapid response and kind offer... appreciate the fine service... I think it's time to go mow the lawn and contemplate my insignificant place in the universe... best regards, I remain,Sir, yr hmbl svt.... Bill -----Original Message----- From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com <DLSOUDER(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 10:14 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > writes: > ><< Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in > diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality > precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make > the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... > The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide > lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... > (yep, they are different...) >> > >Hi Bill, > >You are correct, there are two sizes: the larger dia for the elevators, and >the smaller for the drag strut. > >We ream the aluminum drag strut tubes supplied in the kit for the drag strut >fitting to fit properly. Either your drag strut was not reamed or you put the >reamed end at the outboard end. > >Probably the best fix at this point is for us to make you a custom set of drag >strut fittings that will fit your tube. If this seems the best to you, let me >know and we'll send them out. > >Sorry for the frustration this has caused. > >Dennis Souder >Pres Kolb Aircraft > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: QD Pi [FS l]
Hello, Shack! My wife gave me a FireFly (Kolb) for our 50th wedding ann. Looks like there are still a lot of GOOD women out there. At 75 I wanted to stay legal after 56 years of flying (lost med) so am stuck with a 254 rocket. You'll really like the EIS. I have an airspeed and compass, that's all you need with the EIS. No BRS as the Kolb is built like a Brick SHouse, and I'm a reasonably good ( = quite a few hrs, accident free) pilot.My heel brakes kinda bug me as I have VERY wide feet, so land pigeon-toed! Looks like you got it all planned out quite well. And you'll be as happy as a sane person can get!!! And I like your usage of Good Wife, it's mine too. Comes from Middle English. Regards, Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Hell, Rusty.... I left out most of the good part.... In addition to the minor airplane business I lightly brushed over in the earlier note, I got a prostate big enough to put license plates and turn signals on and drive to work.....It tosses and turns in a manner totally independent of what I do at night... (ain't slept 50 consecutive minutes in over five years)... The computer is screwed up down at the Mr Greenlawn place and on Thursday while no one was home, the stupid bastards rolled in here unannounced and re-re-fertilized the smoking remnants of my so-called lawn for the third time in three weeks... a man could roast a hotdog over my grass right now... it stinks like a EPA superfund site, is turning the color of a peroxided hooker's hairdo, kills cats before they can walk completely across it, and it's all gonna have to be resodded... ($2,200...again)... While pondering all this, my hoodlum son (the younger) and his bovine, loudmouth bride gleefully informed me Friday night that they just lost their lease (again) and we are once again about to be graced with their presence in the back bedroom for an indeterminate period... AND my airplane is all over the garage floor... Now let me get this straight.... you sent off for the wrong muffler and then your rope broke...? and for this you are gonna park a fully functional, put-together, magnificent Kolb airplane in the corner, sell-out and sulk.... forever??? Pull yerself together, man.... What if some civilian were to see you like this......? Bill (the aluminum butcher of Brandon) Tuton -----Original Message----- From: Russell Duffy <ad(at)pen.netr> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > >>Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor >>in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' >>like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional >>PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up >>this crap immediately, droolin' juice from yesterday's dried-out cigar onto >>the now battered and fuzzed-up plans, marveling at artfully welded parts >>that never seem to exactly fit, and trying (without success) to remember >>exactly what day it was that it finally dawned on us that this airplane >>building fit had assumed FULL control of what we had heretofore laughingly >>referred to as our lives..." > > >Hey Bill, > >If you're trying to cheer me up, it's working :-) > >Rusty > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: Jim Kmet <110440.1247(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: rear enclosure
Folks, I have an unused, never installed , rear enclosure wrap for a MK- 3 I need to sell, . I don`t Know what a new replacement goes for, But it ought to be worth $20. 00+ Shipping to someone. !st response gets it , thanks . Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral, etc
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Vince Nicely wrote: > The airplane was tested for flight characteristics according to the > suggestions of Vaughn Askue in his book, "Flight Testing Homebuilt Vince, I'm very impressed. I thought I was methodical about test flying my plane, but compared to you I was a total hack. Good, useful notes! Rusty, I think you should save weight on your RV-8 by using a rope starter! Make sure it is dacron, and maybe 1/2" diam. You may need pulleys or maybe a wind up spring. :) Seriously everybody, I think John Hauck's suggestion to use electric start is obviously wise as a conservative approach. Having had engine failure at idle on approach, I appreciate the "over the fence" instead of "thru the fence" motivation for electric start. However, I personally want to keep my weight within FAR103 "I wish" range, and will admit that in general I am overly picky about adding any weight at all. I (try to) fly every approach a bit high and slip away the excess. Hopefully this will keep me out of the fences. I slowly come to idle at altitude to make sure it will behave there, and rev it periodically during idle as well. Obviously there are other engine-out scenarios where a starter won't save your bacon anyway. Hope i won't embarrass myself now and report tomorrow about "engine out/ fences hurt". This is a personal call whether you want the convenience, in-flight start capability, and weight of electric start. One other thing about rope starting... one of the best simple tips I've heard (also on this list) was to blow on the little holes of the plastic float bowl breather tube. Pushes fuel right in there, and she starts 1st or 2nd pull. (haven't tried climbing up there to blow on it in flight :)) Anyway this trick has kept me from feeling compelled to spend my allowance on a real primer. Vince, your mention of rudder causing yaw and nose up, requiring forward stick to maintain flying speed is same for me. Throw in a little opposite aileron, and that's a slip. I run out of airspeed and forward stick travel if I try to hold full rudder slip -- not a problem, just a characteristic. This is similar to what you report about "rudder can overpower aileron". Beauford, ________________________________________________________________________________ garage part gets in your blood and eventually (somehow?) becomes half the fun ...well, maybe 1/3 :). Someday your lawn furniture will fly, so hang in there. -Ben Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: North Florida Fly In Oct.24, 98
From: rbaker2(at)JUNO.COM (Ray L Baker)
Kolbers, FYI 4th Annual Fall Air Festival 9 AM 10/24/98 Flying 10 Airport (OJ8), Jonesville, FL (Crow hop west of Gainesville) Sponsored by Kitty Hawk Aviation and EAA chapter #98 Free airplane rides for kids under 12 yrs. R/C model airplane demo. Williston Skydivers. FSS pilot seminars Food and beverages available. Newberry Road (FL 26) SW from Gainesville to flashing yellow light at County Road 241 (NW 170th St) south approx 2.5 miles to SW 42nd Ave (lime rock road to left) follow back to airport. Noticed there is a Twinstar based at Flying 10. L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Beauford Tuton
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Hey, Bewildered - - - - - This is probably academic at this point, since it sounds like Dennis is working it out for you. ( Wish he'd send me that motor mount, tho' ) Just for interest value, though, rather than taking off metal - and thereby weakening an extremely critical part - what about swaging the end slightly, to open it up enough to accept the fitting ?? Thoughts, anyone ?? Big Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Flying, flying.
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Hi Group: This isn't about Kolb's, but is about flying. A new experience yesterday. ( Sat ) Went to a hang-glider/para-glider group in San Bernardino and took a tandem lesson in a paraglider. What an incredible ride. Launch at 4000', with a good breeze and 110' air. Lots of lift. Took about 6 steps to get airborne, and hit lift right away. On a 70 min. flight we got up to 8150' , which is apparently some kind of local record for a tandem 'chute with a 200# passenger. A very solid + secure feeling for anyone used to Ultralights. Would probably be a little rough psychologically for a non-pilot, since you're hanging right out there. A little bumpy, but all in all very comfortable and enjoyable. Probably the nicest part was the almost total silence. Holding speed down to about 12 - 15 mph makes normal conversation easy, with just a slight rush of wind. If you like to fly, give it a try. Not that expensive, and really gives a different view-point. Big Lar. Still slooooowwllly working on that engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Nicely" <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral
Date: Aug 30, 1998
John and others, > >Vince and Gang: > >Yourexperience flying the standard rigged Firestar sounds right to me. How >do you maintain pitch control when you are flying hands off in your >airplane? Is it stable in pitch as well as roll? > I rigged a spring loaded elevator trim under the seat on my firestar II. A home made lever beside the seat on the left is used to adjust the tension on the push/pull (door return springs from local hardware) springs attached to the turnbuckles on the stick. With this simple rig, I can trim to speeds between about 50 and 70-75 mph which is the range I use. I had the chance to do some flying today. Because we had been discussing this, I tried to compare the rudder induced roll and the aileron induced roll. With modest rudder input, the roll is about as strong as with full aileron. For example, I used rudder to roll into about a 30 degree bank to the right and then reversed rudder to roll to about 30 degrees to the left all with hands off the stick. The 30 right to 30 left took about 5 seconds. I flew along a small river for many miles about 500 ft AGL. The plane was trimmed about 55mph. I followed the river without touching the stick by simply using rudder to bank to follow the river. Ocasional throttle adjustments kept me in about a 100 foot altitude range. Then I needed to turn from heading of about 210 to 360 to head home. Added right rudder to initiate bank and left rudder to roll out on heading. Added throttle to climb about 1000 feet to clear some mountains. In about 1 hour, I touched the stick 1 time to aid in adjusting the elevator trim to adjust the speed slightly. Because of the high pusher prop, throttle adjustments cause some change in the trimmed speed. I didn't worry about that small change, but it can be trimmed out if one wants. I really enjoy this kind of slow-low flying with arms folded and watching the scenery pass below. Regards, Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Hi Bill, The man I bought my FF #7 from had the same problem to the point where he sold it to me. I got his nice collection of elevator and drag strut fittings along with the kit. He had been working with the factory but was unable to come up with a tight fit on either. There was considerable difference in the tube sizes. You are doing the right thing by going to Kolb because I think they are not able to control the exact diameter of the tubing provided by their supplier. They should send you one (or two) that fits because you are not the first to have the problem. Don't get discouraged. Every truly great project seems like a total loss at some point in it's development. Two of us went for a 20 minute hop to a friendly grass strip this morning. Mine scrambled up and blazed through the air like a homesick hornet. We were there and back before we knew it. Great adventure.. Stay with it... Duane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Olendorf" <olendorf(at)empireone.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral, etc
Date: Aug 30, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Dihedral, etc >Vince, your mention of rudder causing yaw and nose up, requiring forward >stick to maintain flying speed is same for me. Throw in a little >opposite aileron, and that's a slip. I run out of airspeed and forward >stick travel if I try to hold full rudder slip -- not a problem, just >a characteristic. This is similar to what you report about "rudder can >overpower aileron". > I have found this to be true also. I have to release rudder to get the nose down then apply rudder again to resume the slip. It's nice to know that this just isn't my imagination and is a normal behaviour. Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 377 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: John <redhill(at)rose.net>
Subject: Re: South Ga. Fly-In
October 9, 10, 11; 1998 Fri., Sat., Sun. Thomasville, Georgia Fly-In Located 35 miles North of Tallahassee, Florida Lets see how many Kolb's can be there. Before we buy another microlight (currently have a Challenger), I'd like to fly in a Kolb. If you have one for sale, be sure and be there. Thomasville is known as the Quail Capital of the World. Come back in November for hunting. Check the city out at www.rose.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
> >Kolbers: >Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor >in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' >like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional >PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up >this crap immediately, Remind the ol'lady its keeping you out of the pubs and cat houses > >Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in >diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality >precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make >the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... >The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide >lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... >(yep, they are different...) Seems to me you have .025 - .080 of wall thickness you shouldn't have. I had a mislabled tube and had to turn down a fitting, I've had tubes with a tapered hole down the middle. Your numbers are to far off for any reworking. Get ahold of Dennis to figure this one out. > >open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly >manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... Try some salsa with that it gets even better > >thanks fer listenin' Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Thanks, Duane... good info. I'm not about to quit... these are nice little airplanes and I want one... appreciate your help... Bill -----Original Message----- From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > >Hi Bill, The man I bought my FF #7 from had the same problem to the point >where he sold it to me. I got his nice collection of elevator and drag strut >fittings along with the kit. He had been working with the factory but was >unable to come up with a tight fit on either. There was considerable >difference in the tube sizes. You are doing the right thing by going to Kolb >because I think they are not able to control the exact diameter of the tubing >provided by their supplier. They should send you one (or two) that fits >because you are not the first to have the problem. > >Don't get discouraged. Every truly great project seems like a total loss at >some point in it's development. > >Two of us went for a 20 minute hop to a friendly grass strip this morning. >Mine scrambled up and blazed through the air like a homesick hornet. We were >there and back before we knew it. Great adventure.. Stay with it... Duane > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Woody: thanks for the reply... I have a childlike faith that Dennis can come up with the right size fittings, now that he knows the inside diameter of the drag struts... It must be tough trying to cope with the variations in materials from various suppliers... FYI, that .925 was my typo... I corrected it in a later e-mail to Dennis...shoulda been .825, but it was still bigger than the other one and both are bigger than the holes they need to go into... Salsa does help... Thanks, Bill "...a Hun alive, is a war in prospect...." Churchill, May, 1938 "...a naked sheriff makes for a slow posse...." James Coburn, Water Hole #3, circa 1966 -----Original Message----- From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > >> >>Kolbers: >>Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor >>in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' >>like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional >>PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up >>this crap immediately, > > Remind the ol'lady its keeping you out of the pubs and cat houses > > >> >>Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in >>diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality >>precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make >>the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... >>The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide >>lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... >>(yep, they are different...) > > Seems to me you have .025 - .080 of wall thickness you shouldn't have. I >had a mislabled tube and had to turn down a fitting, I've had tubes with a >tapered hole down the middle. Your numbers are to far off for any reworking. >Get ahold of Dennis to figure this one out. > > >> >>open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly >>manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... > > >Try some salsa with that it gets even better > > >> >>thanks fer listenin' > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous)
Date: Aug 30, 1998
Woody, the control cable that came with my kit was galvanized. I screwed up a cable and I had to buy an 20' piece of stainlesssteel cable to replace it with, and used the new cable for the down elevator control. I too was curious about whether or not they had the same spongie feel so I swapped them, and I get the same feeling with either up or down. I have no play or give anywhere in the control system that could possibly account for the feeling, so I talked an aeronautical engineer into giving his opinion. He thinks that the stretch is normal for the length of the cable and the leverage of the elevator vs. the control horn. I guess I just tighten it up and live with it. Thanks, Ron Carroll Original Firestar (seized rear cylinder during engine break-in) -----Original Message----- From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> Date: Sunday August 30 1998 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous) > > > I don't want to be a pest but could you tell me how the elevator feels >when you give it full down stick .Is it still spongy? > > > > Woody > > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 1998
From: Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com>
Subject: Re: Mojave, Ca. Kolb builer/pilot
Autoforwarded: false UA-content-id: 11C8F4E53900 Hop-count: 1 I cant help you with the name of the person you were looking for, but I would also be interested in contacting him. I continue to look for someone in the southern california area willing to give me a flight intro. in the Mark III. Anyone out there.....? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillU(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Mojave, Ca. Kolb builer/pilot
Give Michael S. Michalski a call, he gives Ultralight Flight Instruction in a Kolb Mk III, Lancaster, Ca. dry lake bed. e-mail is> msm000(at)aol.com His web page is http://members.aol.com/msm000/index.html Hope this helps Will Uribe Building a FireStar II when ever I'm in town. http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html In a message dated 8/30/98 8:44:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, sbaew(at)dames.com writes: > I continue to look for > someone in the southern california area willing to give me a flight > intro. in the Mark III. Anyone out there.....? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: "Jon P. Croke" <joncroke(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Greetings to all: Thanks in part to the many contributors on this list, I made my very first flight in my Firestar II this evening! It was without reservation a most incredible experience. Of course, it was a long road to this point. After countless delays in construction over a 3 year period (!), and after an initial disaster with an earlier first flight attempt, today's success did come with a price!! A couple of months ago, I was attempting crow hops after completing the plane. I had read the last 3 years worth of advice in this very forum regarding the pros and cons of crow hops vs just taking off. Mostly because I was just plain scared to make the maiden flight... I decided to go with the crow hops. Fifteen minutes into this exercise, I flipped the plane on its back after catching a wheel in some high grass. The controls were very unresponsive at the slow speeds and you can imagine the feeling in my gut after performing this manuever.... wrecked the plane and never got to fly it! Never again. After replacing the nose and a gear leg..... I headed to KOLB central and spent a few hours with Dan, the flight instructor. No problem at all 'mastering' basic maneuvers in the Mark III. Very valuable to have this experience... so as not to mix it up with the feel of my limited experience in a C-172 (dont have my license, but have reached the solo stage). So today was the day... I was still really scared to take off.... all psychological Im sure... but I powered up and pulled the stick..... would this thing fly??? Didnt you wonder this when you took your completed plane up for the first time??? Maybe I had put the wings on backwards!!! Or worse the prop... There were a million reasons not to trust this..... Maybe it would just flip over for no reason and end up on its back again..... I was scared.... But...... No surprises.... It went up.....and up.. It was soooo thrilling to fly for the first time in this plane..... Now... could I land??? Once again, I was pleasantly surprised.... maybe beginners luck... but it came down soo smoothly.. a little bounce but so uneventful... and I parked it for the day because it was time for a new pair of pants.... just kidding. So the moral of my story is this for those of you who will someday fly you Kolb for the first time.... NO crowhops...I think you're asking for trouble and Ill show you what can happen (or just order a second nose cone and some gear legs in advance-- they now come specially packaged as the 'Crow Hop experimenters Kit' from you nearest Kolb dealer ; -) ) Get some time with a Mark III or the like.. (taking a lesson from Dan at Kolb was fun and rewarding... a very nice no nonsense guy) and... ENJOY!! Now these words of wisdom have previously been posted in this list... Im just repeating them with my endorsement. Great thanks to the many contributors to this forum that kept my interest up for over 2 YEARS of building... thats a long time and a lots of messages..... lots of great advice and insights into the many aspects invovled with building/flying. That first flight is a big 'hump' to cross... Hey Dennis: your plane really flies...... I guess thats not news.... I mean it flies even with ME at the controls... I wasnt sure of that til today. One technical note/question... What seemed odd was that in my turns it seemed that I was being pulled out of my seat... too much rudder?? my little slip/skid indicator basically did not move so it was hard too tell if that was it.... but it was strange to feel that 'pull' that strong.... Thanks to all Jon (near Greenbay, WI) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Bill, Jerry Bidle here. We build our FireFly #17. I don't seems to recall any problem on ours with the drag strut fittings. They and the tubing matched. I would reference the plans and verify what size tubing it says it should be. Sounds like to me they shipped you a part that may belong to a FireStar. You know what that means, call the factory and have them ship you out one or two of what you should have. Verify you have the correct tubing (diameter and wall thickness). Also check how many feet of the tubing you have for the wing struts. They sent us 1 long piece and 1 short piece. The longer lenght in only long enough to get 2 lenghts of the required lenght, not 3 so we had only enough material for only 3. Since our wings are closed up I can't get into measure the fittings but again refer to the tubing size on the plans. I suggested to Dennis they need more detail drawing for identification of the steel parts. Good luck, Jerry Bidle snip.... >Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in >diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality >precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make >the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... >The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide >lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... >(yep, they are different...) > >I'll bet some of you are thinking, " that goon probably mixed up the >elevator horns with the drag strut fittings..." Naw, the goon checked that >first...... both of the ones in the elevators are the same size and fit >snugly into their respective .875 x .035 tubes... and besides, the plans >don't mention anything about different specifications for the two sets of >parts... > >I tried to call the factory Saturday, but I was too late to catch anyone >there... So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of the >Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give me >an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If so, >how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll just >open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly >manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... > >thanks fer listenin' > >Bill Tuton >Brandon,FL > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Dihedral
Date: Aug 31, 1998
That really sounds GREAT !!! Good for you, my envy is showing. Big Lar. ---------- > From: Vince Nicely <vincenicely(at)intermediatn.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Dihedral > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 2:38 PM > > > John and others, > > > >Vince and Gang: > > > > I flew along a small river for many miles about 500 ft AGL. The plane was > trimmed about 55mph. I followed the river without touching the stick by > simply using rudder to bank to follow the river. Ocasional throttle > adjustments kept me in about a 100 foot altitude range. Then I needed to about 50 and 70-75 mph which is the range I use. > Vince > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: William V Rayfield <rayfiwv(at)mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
Rusty and all, I spoke with a guy from Jones Lite field this weekend. He has a Clipwing Challenger 1 with a 447 and recently put a R&D pipe on it. He originally needed a new prop to get more RPMs. He bought the pipe figuring he could get the power with a little less $. Well, $400 later, he has lost 8mph cruise and top speed, no gain in RPMs or power, and has a very peaky engine (RPM gaps as Rusty described). He is trying to send it back since they guy at R&D said he'd pay back if he wasn't satisfied. Apparently the info. being distributed about these pipes isn't accurate. Bill Rayfield "I'm not smart, but I sure am slow!" Mechanical Engineering Student Auburn University "War Eagle" On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Russell Duffy wrote: > > Hello again, > > First I'd like to say- get a starter, get a starter, get a starter!!!!! I will > never own another engine that must be started with a rope. I wish Ben had been > here to show me how easy it was to start my 503 today :-) > > Now, onto the R&D news. As you may recall from my last message, after > installing larger jets in the carbs, I attempted to start the engine when the > rope broke. Today, I replaced the rope and hauled the plane outside to assume > the position (tied to a tree). > > For some reason, the engine was very hard to start. Not only did it not want to > start, but the rope seemed like it took about twice the effort I'm used to. I > finally pulled a plug out of each cylinder to make sure there wasn't any extra > friction, and everything seemed fine. Once I put the plugs back in, a few more > yanks was all it took to get continuous noise. > > Did the new jets give me the extra power I was looking for- silly question- of > course not. Today's static rpm was 6260, which is a whole 10 rpm more than the > stock Rotax muffler gave. The plugs looked just about perfect after the run, so > I can't imagine that I'm off by much on the jetting. I didn't even bother to > fly it. I also noted that the dead spot between 4300 and 5200 rpm was worse > than before. > > What does this all mean? Probably the end of flight for my SS. I'm currently > planning to remove the engine for sale, drain the fuel, and fold the plane up in > the corner of the hanger. Either I'll find someone that wants to buy a > "SlingShot project" minus engine and registration for $9k, or I'll just plan to > get back to it with another engine after the RV-8 is finished. > > Russell Duffy > Navarre, FL > Kolb SlingShot N8754K (no longer airworthy) > RV-8, 80587 (tanks-Yuck) > rad(at)pen.net > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Bill, I only removed about .010 with the drill. Don't even consider drilling out enought to make both parts fit. Call Kolb and get the right parts, first. Then if you have a slight clearance problem, you may need to drill. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: Props' prices
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Ben writes: > By now I rarely change prop pitch. For the 'money is no object' prop, > look at PowerFin. I just checked the Powerfin pricelist page at http://www.everett.net/users/expat/order.htm The price listed for the three-blade 66" with hub and all hardware and pitch-setting tool is still $430, the same as it was when I purchased it two years and 53 operating hours ago. How much does the similar (3-bl, adjustable, ~66") Warp product cost? My recollection is, it was higher than 430. Ben, I bet you were thinking of the SPORT PROP which, last time I checked, was over 700 bucks (3-blade, gnd-adjust). Has anyone recently received a price on the AirPlast props? If so, can you post details please? I am curious because they seem to be built for Ultralights, but marketed only in Europe. Jim Gerken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Bill, Can't help you with the building stuff, but it sounds like I should gather the troops and fly to Brandon. We could take you up in one of the two seaters to put you back into perspective. Best O' Luck, Rutledge Fuller (37.2 hrs in exactly one month) Looking for any excuse to X-Country! ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:01:25 -0400 Kolbers: Whilst most of you are obviously out soaring like eagles and scurrying back and forth between your aircraft and your PC to trade electrifying stories of aeronautical prowess, or to argue the finer, more arcane, technical niceties of Kolbesque aeronautical engineering, I feel compelled to point out that there are some numbers of us miserable wretches out here a'sufferin.... Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage floor in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, sweatin' like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off occasional PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we clean up this crap immediately, droolin' juice from yesterday's dried-out cigar onto the now battered and fuzzed-up plans, marveling at artfully welded parts that never seem to exactly fit, and trying (without success) to remember exactly what day it was that it finally dawned on us that this airplane building fit had assumed FULL control of what we had heretofore laughingly referred to as our lives..." As the more astute among you might have suspected by now, I gotta little problem here, (am beginning to show the early signs of minor frustration, gotta get a grip...) and I was hoping that one of you gents who had successfully negotiated this particular process might be kind enough to help me out with a bit of technical advice.... Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace quality precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I make the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 in.... The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to slide lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... (yep, they are different...) I'll bet some of you are thinking, " that goon probably mixed up the elevator horns with the drag strut fittings..." Naw, the goon checked that first...... both of the ones in the elevators are the same size and fit snugly into their respective .875 x .035 tubes... and besides, the plans don't mention anything about different specifications for the two sets of parts... I tried to call the factory Saturday, but I was too late to catch anyone there... So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of the Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give me an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll just open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the assembly manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... thanks fer listenin' Bill Tuton Brandon,FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: South Ga. Fly-In
Date: Aug 31, 1998
I thought that Thomasville was the weekend of the 17th? ----Original Message Follows---- Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:32:04 -0400 From: John <redhill(at)rose.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: South Ga. Fly-In October 9, 10, 11; 1998 Fri., Sat., Sun. Thomasville, Georgia Fly-In Located 35 miles North of Tallahassee, Florida Lets see how many Kolb's can be there. Before we buy another microlight (currently have a Challenger), I'd like to fly in a Kolb. If you have one for sale, be sure and be there. Thomasville is known as the Quail Capital of the World. Come back in November for hunting. Check the city out at www.rose.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Jon and all, >One technical note/question... What seemed odd was that in my turns it >seemed that I was being pulled out of my seat Gotta be more specific about that feeling... I am no expert with Kolbs, but I have a hunch... I felt a similar feeling the first couple of hours I flew a Kolb and have more or less eliminated it with the help of a yaw string. >My little slip/skid indicator basically did not move so it was hard too tell >if that was it.... but it was strange to feel that 'pull' that strong.... Slip/skid won't indicate just a yawed attitude as far as I know. Get you a piece of black thread 5" long and tape it to the center of the canopy. On the centerline up the canopy where the string would be when flying straight put a tiny piece of black tape as a marker. In a pusher and especially in a plane that has no fuselage to speak of, the yaw string can tell you a bunch about what is happening with your plane. You can't tell any other way when you are flying... except that funny odd feeling that something is not entirely "all right" that you can't quite describe. I think the "odd unusual" feeling you are having has to do with is flying yawed and making turns from or in that attitude... which is very common (mine at least) in a Kolb (with no fuselage to speak of). Having the yaw string will help you keep it straighter. Note I say straighter... 'cause I don't think it is necessary to be absolutely straight - just close. Flying completely straight requires a good bit of rudder sometimes and I think the drag of the rudder is greater than the drag of flying a little crooked. It is not any big deal with me... as long as I am in the ball park. You will find yourself using some left rudder a lot of the time - some more, some less. I have a habit of leaving the weight of my left foot on it all of the time with about 1" depression of the lever. Probably ought to get a trim tab, huh?, but I don't want to mess up the lines of the pretty rudder. Entry into left turns requires some rudder. Entry into right turns requires none. That is the case with my MKIII. Single place Kolbs might fly different. Any comments welcome. Congrats on the first flight! -- Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50.5 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Date: Aug 31, 1998
"So the moral of my story is this for those of you who will someday fly you Kolb for the first time.... NO crowhops...I think you're asking for trouble and Ill show you what can happen (or just order a second nose cone and some gear legs in advance-- they now come specially packaged as the 'Crow Hop experimenters Kit' from you nearest Kolb dealer ; -) ) Get some time with a Mark III or the like.. " I couldn't agree more. Crow Hops are for the BIRDS! Fly the damn thing and setup for a good approach. Rut Fuller Tallahassee, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: The end (R&D)
Bill and Gang: I have been watching with interest the pursuit of power with after market products. IMHO Rotax puts about as much performance in their engines (2 stroke) as they can and still keep them reasonably reliable. To me an airplane engine can be compared to an industrial duty engine that must put out close to its maximum power most of its usable life. We would not think of putting a torquey, highly modified engine, to work trying to generate emergency power for a facility. I want something I can rely on to keep me flying. Would not want to fly with a motocross engine, not very high anyhow. I haven't heard anything good about this pipe, but that doesn't make it so. I may be wrong though. Must be a different story with the 912, 912S, and the 914. All three models use the same basic engine components and increase output by increasing displacement or turbo-charging. If Rotax feels confident about increasing hp on this engine, then I feel confident that my old 912 (at the bottom of the performance ladder) should keep on going if I keeep on feeding and taking care of it properly. Just rambling around in Central Alabama, john h William V Rayfield wrote: > > Rusty and all, > I spoke with a guy from Jones Lite field this weekend. He has a Clipwing > Challenger 1 with a 447 and recently put a R&D pipe on it. He originally > needed a new prop to get more RPMs. He bought the pipe figuring he could > get the power with a little less $. Well, $400 later, he has lost 8mph > cruise and top speed, no gain in RPMs or power, and has a very peaky > engine (RPM gaps as Rusty described). He is trying to send it back since > they guy at R&D said he'd pay back if he wasn't satisfied. Apparently the > info. being distributed about these pipes isn't accurate. > > Bill Rayfield > "I'm not smart, but I sure am slow!" > > Mechanical Engineering Student > Auburn University > "War Eagle" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Jon, Congratulations on that first flight. I missed that kind of excitement with mine because I had been flying an original Firestar for 3 years before flying the Firestar II that I built. Also, welcome to the "fast growing" Wisconson Kolb group. This summer at the all state ultralight fly-in, Kolbs out numbered all other manufacturers. I look forward to see your plane at a future fly-in. John Jung SE Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Cliff and Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Subject: Chicken Little here - old and not bold.
To all, I would advise anyone getting a couple of hours in a Kolb two place before making their first flights. I got 10 hours dual in a J3 Cub (for bi-ennial and tail wheel endorsement) and 2 hours dual in a MK II before I took my first flight. The Kolb flew a LOT differently (not more difficult, just different and I can say that about all the other planes I have flown as well) than the Cub and doesn't fly like any other kind of plane I ever flew (Cessna, Piper, or T6). I needed every bit of that instruction because I was a low time pilot (150 hrs) and it had been 11 years since I had flown anything. I keep saying it (the Kolb time especially) was the best money I ever spent and the best insurance you can buy. Do it even if you have to make a special trip up to Phoenix, Pa. and fly with Dan. Later, -- Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50.5 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Bill, It occured to me that you measured over the epoxy primer. I masked mine off before painting with epoxy, because there was no room for the epoxy. Also, the reason that I had to drill the tube is that I used new tubing rather than a Kolb part. I didn't even know that they reamed the parts. But it is consistant with the way Kolb takes care of most all of the difficult things, leaving the fun for us builders. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Slip/Skid Indicators and Yaw Strings
Morning Gang: Slip/Skid Ind and Yaw String should give same info, whether you are slipping or skidding in a turn. Step on the ball to center and get in trim, or step on the rudder pedal opposite direction of string to center and trim aircraft. I use a yaw string temporarily to cross check my slip/skid indicator to insure it is mounted level with the roll axis of the airframe. Most accurate I have found and cheapest. A slip/skid indicator should also be mounted so vertical axis of gauge is perpendicular to your horizontal line of flight. In other words, the sucker should be straight up and down. I believe if you feel you are being pulled from the seat you are skidding, trying to make flat turns, but you may also get the same sensation if you are slipping. I'll have to go fly and see for myself of the slipping side. johh h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Kolb flying formations
Group, Last evening I got a chance to fly with a couple of other Kolbs. One was an Ultrastar, the other an original Firestar, and mine is a Firestar II. We decided to fly to a small airport about 20 miles away. I hadn't been there for about 8 years, so I figured I would follow them. One of the others had never been there, and the third guy had been there this year. Also no radios. Off we went until without any real discussion of altitude, speed, or flying positions. The first problem we had was keeping in visual contact. Keeping the other two planes in sight didn't mean that they could see me, because of the high wing blind spot. Then the leader circled back, the other went into a climb and I lost sight of both. It took me 2 to 3 minutes to find them and even then they kept changing directions, circling around. I couldn't imagine what they were doing. Finally we all got going again in generally the right direction. After a while, they seemed to be going too far to the west, so I pulled out my GPS and took my own course to the airport. They kept me in sight and we all landed. We had a good laugh talking about the unorganized formation that we had just flown. What had happened is the leader was depending on his GPS and the batteries had gone dead. He was looking for someone else to take the lead, therefore all the circling. We discussed the problems with maintaining visable positions and had a much better flight back. Flying with other planes is fun, and flying with other Kolbs is even more fun. Oh, I should add, we cruised at 55 mph and 1,500 AGL. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Congrates! I have been building for 5 years and have only gotten about halfway! I am a firm believer in getting away from the ground on first flights as the ground is very hard! As far as the floating in turns you might be inadvertently entering some forward stick in the turn with the side stick. you probobly want to be pulling back some t maintain lift in the bank, so pull some stick in the turn and see if that helps. topher, now on a pentium II 400 mhz graphics monster! where are all those kolb pictures I couldnt upload on my antique Mac! -----Original Message----- From: Jon P. Croke <joncroke(at)CompuServe.COM> Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 12:08 AM Subject: Kolb-List: FIRST FLIGHT News!! > >Greetings to all: > >Thanks in part to the many contributors on this list, I made my very first >flight in my Firestar II this evening! >It was without reservation a most incredible experience. > >Of course, it was a long road to this point. After countless delays in >construction over a 3 year period (!), and after an initial disaster with >an earlier first flight attempt, today's success did come with a price!! A >couple of months ago, I was attempting crow hops after completing the >plane. I had read the last 3 years worth of advice in this very forum >regarding the pros and cons of crow hops vs just taking off. Mostly >because I was just plain scared to make the maiden flight... I decided to >go with the crow hops. Fifteen minutes into this exercise, I flipped the >plane on its back after catching a wheel in some high grass. The controls >were very unresponsive at the slow speeds and you can imagine the feeling >in my gut after performing this manuever.... wrecked the plane and never >got to fly it! Never again. After replacing the nose and a gear leg..... >I headed to KOLB central and spent a few hours with Dan, the flight >instructor. No problem at all 'mastering' basic maneuvers in the Mark III. > Very valuable to have this experience... so as not to mix it up with the >feel of my limited experience in a C-172 (dont have my license, but have >reached the solo stage). > >So today was the day... I was still really scared to take off.... all >psychological Im sure... but I powered up and pulled the stick..... would >this thing fly??? Didnt you wonder this when you took your completed plane >up for the first time??? Maybe I had put the wings on backwards!!! Or worse >the prop... There were a million reasons not to trust this..... Maybe it >would just flip over for no reason and end up on its back again..... I was >scared.... But...... No surprises.... It went up.....and up.. It was >soooo thrilling to fly for the first time in this plane..... Now... could I >land??? > >Once again, I was pleasantly surprised.... maybe beginners luck... but it >came down soo smoothly.. a little bounce but so uneventful... and I parked >it for the day because it was time for a new pair of pants.... just >kidding. > >So the moral of my story is this for those of you who will someday fly you >Kolb for the first time.... NO crowhops...I think you're asking for trouble >and Ill show you what can happen (or just order a second nose cone and >some gear legs in advance-- they now come specially packaged as the 'Crow >Hop experimenters Kit' from you nearest Kolb dealer ; -) ) Get some time >with a Mark III or the like.. (taking a lesson from Dan at Kolb was fun and >rewarding... a very nice no nonsense guy) and... ENJOY!! Now these words >of wisdom have previously been posted in this list... Im just repeating >them with my endorsement. > >Great thanks to the many contributors to this forum that kept my interest >up for over 2 YEARS of building... thats a long time and a lots of >messages..... lots of great advice and insights into the many aspects >invovled with building/flying. That first flight is a big 'hump' to >cross... Hey Dennis: your plane really flies...... I guess thats not >news.... I mean it flies even with ME at the controls... I wasnt sure of >that til today. > >One technical note/question... What seemed odd was that in my turns it >seemed that I was being pulled out of my seat... too much rudder?? my >little slip/skid indicator basically did not move so it was hard too tell >if that was it.... but it was strange to feel that 'pull' that strong.... > >Thanks to all > >Jon (near Greenbay, WI) > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com>
Subject: Covering the Wings MKIII
Date: Aug 31, 1998
I am covering the wings on my MKIII and at 250 degrees the ribs took on a noticeable bow. I stopped at that heat but am wondering if having a curve in the ribs is OK. Any comments? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
In a message dated 8/29/98 11:06:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: << Has anyone else experienced this? >> Yes. The same thing happened to me on my mark 2. I wound up paying a machine shop to ream out the bushing the fitting went into. It was a real pain in the butt. The other similar problem I had was welding residue inside of tubes that the manaul wanted me to put other things into. Welcome to the wonderful world of homebuilt aircraft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying formations
On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, John Jung wrote: > year. Also no radios. Off we went until without any real discussion of > altitude, speed, or flying positions. The first problem we had was It makes the flight a LOT more enjoyable to agree on flying positions. Low wingers should be slightly below, high wingers above, all within a couple hundred feet altitude, and usually flying in a line more or less wing to wing (with ample spacing) is easiest. Fooling around to keep track of where everybody is is annoying and can be dangerous. To be really good, agree on a wing wobble signal to mean "landing and I'll catch up " and a yaw wobble to mean "landing, need help". Finally, trading phone numbers seems really over-cautious, but if you get somewhere and somebody aint there, it is nice to be able to check if they made it *somewhere*. I went on one of these disorganized XCs 2 years ago and one guy was unaccounted for for 24 hours. He was lucky he survived, and it all started by him getting lost. BTW, if somebody has a GPS, that doesn't make them Charles Lindbergh. You might ask them if they have the destination and waypoints keyed in, as well as ...uhhhhh batteries?!! My experience is the GPS guys only have "their favorite" destinations keyed in, and the Dead Reckoning guy has the specific route mapped out to a T. BTW, DeadReckoning assisted by a GPS to hit waypoints right on and exact edges of controlled airspaces is kinda fun. Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com>
Subject: Re: Mojave, Ca. Kolb builer/pilot
Autoforwarded: false UA-content-id: 11C8FA3A3800 Hop-count: 1 Thanks for the tip regarding Mike Michalsky, but Ive contacted him and he indicated he does not own a Mk III - he has another Kolb model. I guess he might coceivably be the Kolb builder that the original e-mail was asking about though. Any other southern California Mk III owners out there??? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John <redhill(at)rose.net>
Subject: Re: South Ga. Fly-In
The date posted Oct. 9, 10, 11th is correct for the Thomasville Fly-In. To confirm call the airport at 912 225-4313. We are giving ample notice so you can make your plans to attend. Rutledge Fuller wrote: > > > I thought that Thomasville was the weekend of the 17th? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:32:04 -0400 > From: John <redhill(at)rose.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > CC: jajvann(at)hotmail.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: South Ga. Fly-In > Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > October 9, 10, 11; 1998 Fri., Sat., Sun. > Thomasville, Georgia Fly-In > Located 35 miles North of Tallahassee, Florida > > Lets see how many Kolb's can be there. Before we buy another microlight > (currently have a Challenger), I'd like to fly in a Kolb. > > If you have one for sale, be sure and be there. > > Thomasville is known as the Quail Capital of the World. Come back in > November for hunting. Check the city out at www.rose.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Chicken Little here - old and not bold.
May I ad a big AMEN to getting a few hrs at Kolb! I had to drive 200 mi, but every mile was worth it. I've got more than few hrs in a lot of much bigger aircraft, but Dan knocked all of that outa me! Take-offs about the same as a high-performance AC in slo mo, S&L ordinary enough, but those diving-to-the-deck landings were A Lot Different. Dan is a mighty fine instructor (unpaid ad!) and most certainly worth the price and the trip. Better than buying gear legs, nose cones and plaster for body casts. GB, flying my FF on my 75th BD today. Pee Ess. Put a plexi trim tab on the "lovely" ruddersaves a lot of footwork. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: ASI on a full enclosure FS
One of my big aggravations has been a totally loused up ASI since adding side panels to my FS. The pressure drop inside the cockpit "sucks" in terms of screwing up what used to be an ASI very close to TAS. Well yesterday I tried a new location for static source and GOT IT!!!! Even better, it is without any gory construction agony or mess. There are little clam shell openings on each side of the fiberglass nose cone where it overlaps the front 10" of Stits covered sides. I used a nylon T from the static port to 1/4" plastic tubes to each side, ending inside these pre-existing clamshell openings. My indicated stall speed has moved up from 28 to 35. I only roughly cross checked that w/ GPS so don't really know yet how accurate the low end is, and don't really care, because 35 was very repeatable. I think probably 35 might be more correct than 28. BTW, while checking this I did the full aft stick controlled straight flight thing. It's wierd. Anyway, 50 and 60 indicated is just 2 mph faster than TAS, and 70-75 indicated is ~4mph faster than TAS. A little too windy to be positive, but it was very very close. Hallelujah! Without a trusty ASI I had fallen off in my ability to do a slow short final to a short spot landing ...had just been coming in conservatively fast, then holding it off for lots of runway length until it touched down. No finesse in that. -Ben Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: R&D bites
A new completion FS was damaged badly near here last week, in large part due to the unexpected behaviour of an R&D pipe. He was on a narrow strip (another mistake), and got fouled up when a change in yaw occurred due to the engine fading in tht 4000 rpm dead band, and then yawing back when it hit upper rpm. (This was on a high speed taxi test.) Caught a sage brush, then a wing tip. He'll need to do cage repairs from ripped out landing gear on one side, plus re-do outboard portion of a wing. He's sick about it, almost literally. I guess we're all pretty clear on R&D by now, eh? Ben Ransom http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT News!!
Chris, re ur old Mac. What model, $, location. My 85 yr old sister has a bad case of SadMac and may need another CPU. I'm at ronoy(at)shentel.net thnx Bob N. aka Grey Baron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayland, William C." <wcw2573(at)eagle.sbeach.navy.mil>
Subject: Sea Foam Source
Date: Aug 31, 1998
After much searching for a local source of this stuff I happened to be in San Diego last week and called all three of the Car Quest / Southern Auto Supply stores. Got two "never heard of it" and one "got plenty". Hit was the store at 7832 Armour St. San Diego, CA 92111 (619) 277-4896 at $2.99 per pint can. Bought 6 cans and plan to give some to friends with ULs. Chris Wayland, FireFly s/n 008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Rotax pistons
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Seized my engine during the break-in. I guess I failed to watch the temps close enough. Besides, it was over-revving, i.e., engine rated 35 hp @ 6500 rpm, but full throttle showed 7400 rpm with the original Culver prop (66 X 23 ). I realize that I was careless in not shutting down the engine when this occurred, but I goofed. What should the static rpm be with this engine/prop? Could it have been *cavitating* ? My question is in regard to a couple of posts from a while back about buying pistons at somewhere around half price from a Ski-Doo dealer, if you have the Ski-doo model numbers, etc. Can anyone refresh my memory on this? Ron Carroll Original Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Rotax pistons
In a message dated 8/31/98 11:26:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ron.carroll(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: << My question is in regard to a couple of posts from a while back about buying pistons at somewhere around half price from a Ski-Doo dealer, if you have the Ski-doo model numbers, etc. Can anyone refresh my memory on this? >> Ron: Are you stil under the rotax warranty? If you are you can just toss it in their lap. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax pistons
Date: Aug 31, 1998
> Ron: Are you stil under the rotax warranty? If you are you can just toss >it in their lap. I don't think I'd mention that 7400 rpm thing :-) Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying formations
> and it all started by him getting lost. BTW, if somebody has a GPS, that > doesn't make them Charles Lindbergh. You might ask them if they have the > destination and waypoints keyed in, as well as ...uhhhhh batteries?!! > My experience is the GPS guys only have "their favorite" destinations > keyed in, and the Dead Reckoning guy has the specific route mapped out > to a T. BTW, DeadReckoning assisted by a GPS to hit waypoints right on > and exact edges of controlled airspaces is kinda fun. > > > Ben Ransom > Ben and Gang: I agree wholeheartedly. Learn pilotage and DR before you get addicted to the GPS. Then when you start using the GPS, keep the sectional out and follow along on it. On the way to OSH took off from Kankakee, Illinois, Frank Beagle's home base, and my GPS would not acquire satelites. So immediately to DR (dead reckoning) in an area that ain't DR friendly with a guy who has become lazy with his navigation and left it all up to the GPS for too long. I found out quick I couldn't fly direct to Joliet cause I didn't have tghe heading and my mag compass never has been much good except for finding the rising and the setting sun. I luckily had the Kankakee River that would take me to the big 4 lane highway which ran right beside Joliet AP. A minute or two before I landed at Joliet, the GPS decided break was over and started working again. Greatest thing going for XCs, but can get pme om trouble if depended on too much. ONe thing I noticed real quick, I didn't have that constant feeling of checking the ground speed, cross track error, etc. All I had was the compass, ASI, and terrain features. Took a lot of hurry out of XC'ing. Hadn't had that feeling for a while. Rambling again, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Rotax pistons
Ron, I used a 66 X 28 on my 377 after I took the Warp off. It came from Kolb and was the recommended prop for the 377. It wouldn't allow the engine to rev more than 6,000 static. The over-reving was probably your problem. 6,500 should be used as MAX static rpm. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Rotax pistons
writes: << Seized my engine during the break-in. I guess I failed to watch the temps close enough. Besides, it was over-revving, i.e., engine rated 35 hp @ 6500 rpm, but full throttle showed 7400 rpm with the original Culver prop (66 X 23 ). I realize that I was careless in not shutting down the engine when this occurred, but I goofed. What should the static rpm be with this engine/prop? Could it have been *cavitating* ? Do you mean to type 66 x 32?? A 66 x 23 would certainly overrev. A 66 x 32 may or may not overrev depending upon how much it varied from the norm. You also might want to check your tach - getting a backup reading from a light tack would be helpful. You static rpm should be between 6000 and 6400. You may need more than pistons, the cylinders can get oval when heated too much, this needs to be corrected. Dennis Souder Pres Kolb Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Turns
From: bobdoebler(at)JUNO.COM (Robert L Doebler)
Jon If you want to know if your turns are quartenated(sp). take it from an old glider driver. Use a yaw string. Tape about 4" of yarn on the lower portion of your windshield, right in the middle. If you are yawing in a turn, the taped end of the string will point to the rudder petal you need more of. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DLSOUDER(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Kolb flying formations
<< We had a good laugh talking about the unorganized formation that we had just flown. What had happened is the leader was depending on his GPS and the batteries had gone dead. He was looking for someone else to take the lead, therefore all the circling. >> Reminds me of a similar incident Bill Martin, one of the Kolb crew, and I had one time on our way to a local fly-in about 40 miles away. We took off in our UltraStars and enjoyed an extraordinarily beautiful flying morning. I was following Bill's lead as we meandered over the countryside, not bothering too much about where we were because I was just following Bill. After an appropriate length to time I saw Bill point to an airport below. We circled, checking it out, and then landed. I didn't think this airport was our destination so after engines were turned off, I asked Bill where we were. He replied, I don't know, I was following you! Dennis Souder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Spongie elevator cable (Dangerous)
> >I guess I just tighten it up and live with it. > >Thanks, > >Ron Carroll I wished I lived down in your neck of the woods I'd like to see this. Keep checking there has to be something. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Covering the Wings MKIII
> >I am covering the wings on my MKIII and at 250 degrees the ribs took on >a noticeable bow. I stopped at that heat but am wondering if having a >curve in the ribs is OK. Any comments? > > Do you mean the ribs curve from tip to root? You may be able to bring it back by ironing the concave side of the bend to shrink this side and even things up. Did you try to tighten the fabric by hand as you put it on? It should be somewhat loose so you can shrink it to the max allowed by the fabric to "set"it. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 1998
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Subject: Re: Rotax pistons
> >> Ron: Are you stil under the rotax warranty? If you are you can just toss >>it in their lap. > > >I don't think I'd mention that 7400 rpm thing :-) > >Rusty > I think they will know. Woody Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Thanks Rutledge... I appreciate the kind offer, and would dearly love a ride in one of the two seaters... but rest assured, my Bride of roughly 33 years has an uncanny ability to instantly snap me back into the reality of precisely where I fit into the cosmos... as well as retuning my sense of appreciation for why I am in it, about every 30 minutes or so.... give or take.... It gives a man a sense of... well... belonging... ya know??? It also keeps my nose in THE KIT... Never fear, I'm gonna make this assortment of junk and rags into an airplane if it takes all night... Thanks for the note... will take a raincheck on the kind offer for the missionary visit... i can do this..... choke.... sob! Bill -----Original Message----- From: Rutledge Fuller <rut007(at)hotmail.com> Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon > >Bill, > >Can't help you with the building stuff, but it sounds like I should >gather the troops and fly to Brandon. We could take you up in one of >the two seaters to put you back into perspective. > >Best O' Luck, >Rutledge Fuller (37.2 hrs in exactly one month) >Looking for any excuse to X-Country! > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET> >To: "kolb List" >Subject: Kolb-List: Bewildered (again) in Brandon >Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:01:25 -0400 >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > >Kolbers: >Whilst most of you are obviously out soaring like eagles and scurrying >back >and forth between your aircraft and your PC to trade electrifying >stories of >aeronautical prowess, or to argue the finer, more arcane, technical >niceties of Kolbesque aeronautical engineering, I feel compelled to >point >out that there are some numbers of us miserable wretches out here >a'sufferin.... >Some of us poor S.O.B.s is still a'sittin in the middle of the garage >floor >in a pile what appears to be smashed-up aluminum lawn furniture, >sweatin' >like pigs, swattin' at a perpetual cloud of gnats, fending off >occasional >PMS-driven attacks into the garage from our ol' ladies demanding we >clean up >this crap immediately, droolin' juice from yesterday's dried-out cigar >onto >the now battered and fuzzed-up plans, marveling at artfully welded parts >that never seem to exactly fit, and trying (without success) to remember >exactly what day it was that it finally dawned on us that this airplane >building fit had assumed FULL control of what we had heretofore >laughingly >referred to as our lives..." > >As the more astute among you might have suspected by now, I gotta little >problem here, (am beginning to show the early signs of minor >frustration, >gotta get a grip...) and I was hoping that one of you gents who had >successfully negotiated this particular process might be kind enough to >help >me out with a bit of technical advice.... > >Building Firefly #76... The drag strut end fittings are too large in >diameter to slide into the drag strut tubes... Using my aerospace >quality >precision (made in Hanoi, but passed off as Chinese) dial calipers, I >make >the inside diameters of the two 1 x .125 drag strut tubes to be .750 >in.... >The outside diameters of the two end fittings which are supposed to >slide >lovingly into the tubes are approximately .800 and .925 respectively... >(yep, they are different...) > >I'll bet some of you are thinking, " that goon probably mixed up the >elevator horns with the drag strut fittings..." Naw, the goon checked >that >first...... both of the ones in the elevators are the same size and fit >snugly into their respective .875 x .035 tubes... and besides, the plans >don't mention anything about different specifications for the two sets >of >parts... > >I tried to call the factory Saturday, but I was too late to catch anyone >there... So I thought I would throw this out to the collective wisdom of >the >Kolb mafia and see if one or more of you would take pity on me and give >me >an idea of how to handle this....Has anyone else experienced this? If >so, >how'd you deal with it? Dennis, you out there...? Meantime, I'll >just >open another warm beer and crawl off into the corner to gnaw on the >assembly >manual binding some more... I'm beginning to like it.... > >thanks fer listenin' > >Bill Tuton >Brandon,FL > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 1998
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon
<< Now let me get this straight.... you sent off for the wrong muffler and then your rope broke...? and for this you are gonna park a fully functional, put-together, magnificent Kolb airplane in the corner, sell-out and sulk.... forever??? Pull yerself together, man.... What if some civilian were to see you like this......? >> you forgot the Wild Rabbit ran away with your shoes!!!................GeoR38 :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Bewildered (again) in Brandon


August 20, 1998 - August 31, 1998

Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-av