Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bc
November 16, 1998 - November 29, 1998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com> |
lindy(at)snowhill.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com
This weekend,Saturday, Novemember 21, we will be having a BBQ at Quincy
Airport off of Hwy 12. Due to liaibility issues, this is NOT a fly-in,
just a bounch of people interested in aviation getting together and
having fun.
See you there,
Rutledge Fuller
(850) 413-8272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Engine Rebuild |
Would you consider rebuilding a 582, when its time. I live 15 minutes from
Green sky Adventures the oldest Rotax dealer in the USA and maybe having him
rebuild but that might be about $1000 or more. How much trouble was it
actually to rebuild I'm thinking about going to the Votec for small engine
repair to get ready for when my engine goes TU. What do you think.
Frank
From: Rutledge Fuller <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:59 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: My Engine Rebuild
>
>It looks like it might stay together, so I will write on the experience.
>
>Four weekends back I had my engine seize on the rear cylinder in
>Colquitt, Ga. I was very happy that Mike Highsmith "Firehawk" had his
>two seater so that I could hitch a ride back. I removed my engine from
>the airframe and attached it underneath Mike's aircraft so that I could
>get it back home to Quincy, Fl. Just kiddin'. I drove two hours back
>to Colquitt to get the engine.
>
>Now on with the story. I removed both pistons. The seized piston was
>seized on both intake and exhaust and actually craked the skirt. I
>believe that the cause was improperly mixed fuel. I replaced the fuel
>pump, crakshaft seals, and piston. I did all the work myself and it
>took a little time to collect the right tools. I tried several local
>gear pullers to pull the gear off of the PTO side of the crank, I had to
>finially give in and purchase the rotax gearpuller at around $60. It
>took less than 2 seconds to pull it. It helps to have the right tools.
>Next, I had to hone the cylinder for the new piston and rings which cost
>$130. I finally gave up and ran to Sears and bought a regular stone
>hone (fine). I am still waiting on the flex hone from on of the
>Ultralight Suppliers which is on back order. I honed the cylinder until
>i got a clearance between 4-5 thou. Bolted it up. Timed the motor
>(points ignition) brought the motor to Colquitt, installed it and flew
>it back to Quincy 1 hour and 10 minute flight after a breakin period.
>
>I found that the rear newly honed cylinder ran 80 degrees cooler than
>the front. Cruise was 287 cht. I often heard that Rotax sets it's
>piston to cylinder clearance tight. I called around and spoke to
>several Rotax mechanics and they agreed. After just two or so hours on
>the engine, I took the front cylinder off and honed it to the same
>clearance of between 4-5 thou and reinstalled it. My engine now runs
>between 60 and 80 degrees cooler. I still show 40 degrees difference
>between the front CHT and the rear. It was exactly that before the
>engine seized. I believe that Rotax now installs a baffle between the
>cylinders to evenly cool the heads. My old 377 doesn't.
>
>So far so good with 86 hours, six since rebuild. I had a blast
>rebuilding the engine and feel confident about working on the engine.
>
>
>Comments welcome,
>
>Rutledge Fuller
>Tallahassee, Fl.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
>The other wing is repairable....its a strange feeling tearing off the skin
of that wing... all the work, paint, time and expense that went in to
putting it on!!
>
Mornin Gang:
Happy Monday.
I can totally empathize with the above statement and situation. I felt the
same way when I pulled the hide off the wings of my Ultrastar to rebuild
after a wire strike. I guess tearing up airplanes is something I have to
accept if I am going to participate in this sport, whether I tear them up,
or Mother Nature.
I watched two Twin Stars at Florida Flying Gators Airstrip get trashed in
Nov 1987. One man made a mistake that took out a brand new airplane, that
later became the Sun and Fun Lt Plane Grand Champion 1988. He didn't do it
on purpose, just got a little over zealous and made a poor decision.
Richard Swiderski was there. In fact that is when I met Richard with his
Ultrastar. No one was hurt physically, but there was a lot of mental and
financial anguish. I felt for both individuals and thanked God it was not
me who made the mistake or who was in the line of fire and had a new
airplane broken.
I have totaled every airplane I built (three) and rebuilt all three of them
at least once. The MK III has had three tail booms. Now that is a job in
it's self, just replacing a tailboom. A heap of stainless steal rivets to
drill out. If you have to drill out a pop rivet, carbon or stainless steel,
take a mandrel that has already been pulled and use it to push the mandrel
out of the rivet you intend to drill. Stick it in the hole and give it a
tap with a small hammer. Then drill, much easier than trying to drill thru
a hardened mandrel end. If the rivet wants to spin, make a little tool with
a flat sharp edge, ground out a little to stick under the edge of the rivet
head. This will put the brakes on the spinning rivet and allow you to drill
carefully.
I need to replace elevator and rudder hinges, but procrastinate for the very
fact that I hate to get started drilling a zillion rivets. Oh well, one of
these days.
Later on,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/16/98 11:34:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< I watched two Twin Stars at Florida Flying Gators Airstrip get trashed in
Nov 1987. >>
Funny you should mention that. I watched the midair collision of a firestar
and a Pteradctyl (?) at hoeseheads new york back when they used to have annual
flyins. Both pilots and planes survived. The Kolb guy wasn't looking up and
the other guy wasn't looking down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Engine Rebuild |
Frank,
These motors are simple. Yours is a little more complex than mine, but
anyone with any mechanical skill/understanding can work on them. It
took me less than two hours to disasemble and reasemble when I honed the
front cylinder. The first teardown took about an actual 10 hours total.
Now, on the other hand, I like to work on things. If you are the type
that doesn't enjoy this type of one-on-one with your aircraft, I would
recommend subing the work. I now have a pretty good understanding of my
realiable though. Green Sky comes highly recommended. John H. told me
about them, and I have had good technical assistance from their
mechanics. I look at it this way: Give a man a fish and he eats for a
day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Same goes for
engines. I could pay someone to rebuild, but would gain nothing.
Learning to rebuild myself gives me the understanding, experience, and
ship back and forth, or wait in line to have my stuff worked on.
One day I hope to have the same understanding of airframes....
Rutledge Fuller
Tallahassee, Fl.
From: "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: My Engine Rebuild
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:59:35 -0800
Would you consider rebuilding a 582, when its time. I live 15 minutes
from
Green sky Adventures the oldest Rotax dealer in the USA and maybe having
him
rebuild but that might be about $1000 or more. How much trouble was it
actually to rebuild I'm thinking about going to the Votec for small
engine
repair to get ready for when my engine goes TU. What do you think.
Frank
From: Rutledge Fuller <rut007(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:59 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: My Engine Rebuild
>
>It looks like it might stay together, so I will write on the
experience.
>
>Four weekends back I had my engine seize on the rear cylinder in
>Colquitt, Ga. I was very happy that Mike Highsmith "Firehawk" had his
>two seater so that I could hitch a ride back. I removed my engine from
>the airframe and attached it underneath Mike's aircraft so that I could
>get it back home to Quincy, Fl. Just kiddin'. I drove two hours back
>to Colquitt to get the engine.
>
>Now on with the story. I removed both pistons. The seized piston was
>seized on both intake and exhaust and actually craked the skirt. I
>believe that the cause was improperly mixed fuel. I replaced the fuel
>pump, crakshaft seals, and piston. I did all the work myself and it
>took a little time to collect the right tools. I tried several local
>gear pullers to pull the gear off of the PTO side of the crank, I had
to
>finially give in and purchase the rotax gearpuller at around $60. It
>took less than 2 seconds to pull it. It helps to have the right tools.
>Next, I had to hone the cylinder for the new piston and rings which
cost
>$130. I finally gave up and ran to Sears and bought a regular stone
>hone (fine). I am still waiting on the flex hone from on of the
>Ultralight Suppliers which is on back order. I honed the cylinder
until
>i got a clearance between 4-5 thou. Bolted it up. Timed the motor
>(points ignition) brought the motor to Colquitt, installed it and flew
>it back to Quincy 1 hour and 10 minute flight after a breakin period.
>
>I found that the rear newly honed cylinder ran 80 degrees cooler than
>the front. Cruise was 287 cht. I often heard that Rotax sets it's
>piston to cylinder clearance tight. I called around and spoke to
>several Rotax mechanics and they agreed. After just two or so hours on
>the engine, I took the front cylinder off and honed it to the same
>clearance of between 4-5 thou and reinstalled it. My engine now runs
>between 60 and 80 degrees cooler. I still show 40 degrees difference
>between the front CHT and the rear. It was exactly that before the
>engine seized. I believe that Rotax now installs a baffle between the
>cylinders to evenly cool the heads. My old 377 doesn't.
>
>So far so good with 86 hours, six since rebuild. I had a blast
>rebuilding the engine and feel confident about working on the engine.
>
>
>Comments welcome,
>
>Rutledge Fuller
>Tallahassee, Fl.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rutledge Fuller" <rut007(at)hotmail.com> |
John H. wrote:
I have totaled every airplane I built (three) and rebuilt all three of
them
at least once. The MK III has had three tail booms.
Sounds quite reassuring, when can we fly. : )
Just kiddin'. I guess that says alot for the structure of the KOLBS in
a crash, or the pilotage of John. I think it was probably a little of
both.
I would like to hear the stories some day John.
Rutledge Fuller
Tallahassee, Fl.
Remember the BBQ this weekend at Quincy. We would like to see you
there. I called your brother and invited him.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: My Engine Rebuild |
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Rutledge Fuller wrote:
> mechanics. I look at it this way: Give a man a fish and he eats for a
> day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Same goes for
> engines. I could pay someone to rebuild, but would gain nothing.
> Learning to rebuild myself gives me the understanding, experience, and
> ship back and forth, or wait in line to have my stuff worked on.
>
A similar point, and this can go both ways of course... If you worked on
it yourself, you *know* the degree of quality and care that went into it.
BTW, Rut, I'm impressed with your speediness on getting back into the air.
I would have spent twice the time just trying to decide what to do.
Good job!
> >between the front CHT and the rear. It was exactly that before the
> >engine seized. I believe that Rotax now installs a baffle between the
> >cylinders to evenly cool the heads. My old 377 doesn't.
My 447 has this baffle and the rear (PTO) cyl runs ~30 degrees hotter.
I ground down the baffle a little bit to allow more cooling air back to
the PTO. It made practically no difference, maybe 10 degrees (measured
at the typical plug base anyway).
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
>Rutledge Fuller
>Tallahassee, Fl.
>
>Remember the BBQ this weekend at Quincy. We would like to see you
>there. I called your brother and invited him.
Hi Rut and Gang:
Thanks for the personal invite. I have the B B Q and Quincy on my calendar.
Haven't flown into that airport for a while. I like flying down that way,
it is where I grew up (TLH) and the turn around point for my first long xc
in my Ultrastar in 1984. Time is flying!!! Boy we've gone a long way since
those days. Never would have in my wildest 1984 dreams invisioned the
flights that my little Kolb airplanes have taken me. They all started with
dreams and ended with reality.
I'll try to make it to Quincy, weather permitting.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat Kegebein <pak(at)niia.net> |
| Subject: | 912 engine problem |
I have 912 engine just breaking in. At high RPM developed leaking
gas from breather of right carb. Before i take the bowl off what should
I look for as being the problem? Thanks for your help.
BK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
>
>I have 912 engine just breaking in. At high RPM developed leaking
>gas from breather of right carb. Before i take the bowl off what should
>I look for as being the problem? Thanks for your help.
>
> BK
BK and Gang:
Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started flying my
912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two cycles?
How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter? Or
are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from the
carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have come
across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine from
the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes it is
the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps the eng
nasty most of the time.
How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it. That
is the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying backwards, not
forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles with no
problem, but they fly backwards. I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up the
Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My carbs
go one way, his the other.
Thought about placing aircleaners in fuselage connected with airtex hose or
something similar. Haven't gotten around to that experiment yet.
Sorry I can't help any more than the above. It is a good eng. Mine is
working on a 1,000 hours (983 hrs as of yesterday). Still performs as well
as when it was a young pup.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
>
BK and Gang:
Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started flying my
912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two cycles?
How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter? Or
are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from the
carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have come
across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine from
the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes it is
the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps the
eng
nasty most of the time.
John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is coming
forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the engine? And
this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how the
carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough to
keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it.
This is not an option for a MKIII
Thatis the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying
backwards, not
forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles with
no
problem, but they fly backwards.
I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up the
Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My carbs
go one way, his the other.
john h
Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so that
the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward" same as
the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS catalog
suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
http://www.webcom.com/reynen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
I am planning to be in Las Vegas around the 23rd of Jan and wonder if there
are any Kolb builder flyers in that area. I would like to see what you have
and perhaps exchange ideas on our birds, experiences, trailers etc etc.
Duane Mitchell, Tallahassee, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Had to Pass This On... |
Hi Listers,
Al Mojzisik from the RV-List posted the message below to the RV-List
today. Besides making a great point, I thought it was a riot. Hope
you do to.
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: RV-List: FAA BANS RV-LIST
FAA administrator, Jane Garvey, announced today in Washington that the
RV-List operated by Matt Dralle (On the left coast!) was to be shut down.
Citing the 51% rule as the reason for the shut down Garvey explained that
with the advent of Vans Quick Build Kits the RV-List offered so much
additional assistance to the builders that they no longer met the 51%
criteria! "These builders are really pushing the envelope!" Garvey was
quoted as saying. "They get all there builder questions answered by one
simple E-Mail to this list! They no longer have to spend hours trying to
figure out the plans and the manuals supplied by the kit builder. This
significantly reduces build time and they make far fewer mistakes. It has
taken most of the fun out of being the Administrator and besides, that
Dralle guy has nicer hair than me!" She also noted. Rumor has it that
Vans also supports the ban because they have noticed that the their sales
of replacement parts has significantly decreased since people get advice on
how to do it the right way the first time from "one quick question" to the
List. We were not able to confirm this rumor however.
It was suggested by Moe Colontino that builders supply their serial numbers
to the list administrator and if they cross check to a Quick Build serial
number then they would not be allowed on the list. Moe also asked that if
anyone had a spare empennage and NON-Quickbuild serial number he would be
interested in purchasing it.
Doug Rozendaal asked the administrator if it wasn't possible that she was
just jealous because Matt Dralle calls himself an administrator too? (The
List Administrator) To which Garvey replied, "Absolutely not! I can care
less what he calls himself! Don't you fly that pink airplane I saw at
Oshkosh? We'll have to have a closer look at that machine!" After which
Rozendaal withdrew his question.
Chet Razer and some others at this point in the meeting asked Ms. Garvey if
there was any more beer since they were done flying for the day anyway. To
which Ms. Garvey responded that that "was an inappropriate question at
such a meeting! " After which Ms. Garvey was bombarded with questions
about bolt torque, Extra storage space in RV's, numerous engine questions,
and finally some misguided newbie asked her about PRIMER!
After tearing her hair out (no wonder Matt's looks better) Ms. Garvey
suggested that maybe she better have another look at the RV-List ban and
reassess her position. She said she is open to more public input if you
don't mention PRIMER!
You can contact the Administrator at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
Please have your Credit Card ready!
Or if you wish, you can send your opinions and a generous check too:
Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
If you even smiled once, won't you contribute? AL
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cpeterhu(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Had to Pass This On... |
Was this forwarded to Ms. Garvey?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Vibration |
Hey John, Guess what? The day you pointed out that the hinges on the
Ferguson was worn and to me at the time they did look worn, I preceded to
disassemble the whole tail section. What I found would have amazed you and
the rest of the Kolb gang. I have witnesses that will attest to it.
Would you like to know? Well, I won't knock Kolbs because they're really
good airplanes and I like flying them and I would recomend them to anyone
who want a strong well behaved airplane not to mention I flew a MK3 for some
285 hours. My Mama always told me if I couldn't say anything good about
someone ( I believe that goes for most planes) to not say anything at all.
NO WEAR AT ALL ON ANY OF THE HINGES ANYWHERE ON THE FERGUSON. I might add
that I run the brace wires fairly tight. Even the bolts at the bell crank
pivots were like new. Come by anytime and I'll be glad to show you. The
spacing you saw in between the hinges was in both directions which was there
at initial installation. The hinges are of a double "X" configuration and
seem to be very strong in all directions. I did try to find some wear but
did not succeed. I also keep them lubricated with a light oil which probably
had a lot to do with the lack of wear. You're right in that they did look
worn but if they are I can't find it. There is no side play and no up and
down play.The Ferguson is by no means a perfect airplane but it satisfies me
and I'm the only one that counts. If I ever get 1200 hours on the Ferguson
it will be a long time from now. It will probably be retired a lot sooner
than that which means the hinges want have a chance to wear out.
Lets get back to Kolbs. My friend Jim is looking into buying a Kolb from
another friend of mine (Flint Burns AKA Canary). I talked him out of buying
a Rans not that the Rans isn't a good plane but it want fold like a Kolb.
Then there's the time involved in building while the rest of us is flying.
It is the Firestar, the one I flew to Sun-n-Money three years ago when we
all had such a good time around your camper.It can stay close to home where
the previous owner can stroke it once and a while. We're working on a new
private runway community north of P.C. where we will all have a place to
take the planes in case of another storm like Opal. 100' of my hanger was
blown away in that one. The new runway is in and I have the exclusive right
to have a training operation on the field so long as it originates from my
lot. I hope to retire there and fly 'til I can't see.
This is one sport that crosses a lot of years and friends tend to last a
long long time. I hope you will give me a call when you are down again and I
hope to take Bob up tomorrow if the wind isn't to strong.
FIREHAWK
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine Vibration
>
>Hi Mike and Kolb Gang:
>
>Saw this post and thought I would comment a little on the below statement.
>
>
>>
>>Remember that the smoother you can make your craft the longer it will last
>>because all moving parts wear and dry moving parts wear 300 time faster. I
>>have some 545 hours on my plane and there is hardly any appreciable wear
>>anywhere. Prop vibration probably accounts for most of the wear on our
>>crafts.
>
>I fly a MK III with more than twice the airframe hours as Mike's Ferguson.
>Got a chance to fly a little today and when I put the plane up she had
>1216.1 hrs. I agree with the above in part, but since the MK III and the
>Ferguson use the same identical elevator control mechanism/horizontal
>stabilizer foldup system, I must make a comment reference wear of the
>elevator piano hinges. I was down in Panama City, Fl, last month and Mike
>graciously agreed to fly an old retired WWII Navy Submariner friend of
mine.
>I appreciate that Mike. While I was at Mike's airstrip I noticed advanced
>wear on the Ferguson's elevator hinges and the rudder hinges. The elevator
>hinges wear rapidly because they carry the load from the tail wires
combined
>with the movement of the elevators. The rudder hinges wear because of
>basically the same thing: movement of rudder and downward pull from the
>tail wheel steering springs. I have the same problem with my MK III
because
>both tail sections a very much the same. However, I point out that Mike's
>hinges have worn more than mine. Why? Because I use more elevator and
>rudder hinge than the plans call for and a lot more than what Mike has on
>his Ferguson. I have more hinge to carry the thrust load.
>
>I'm experimenting with some nylon pads, between the tail boom and the
inside
>edges of the horizontal stabilizers, to carry the load placed on the hinges
>by the tailwires. It seems to work well, however, I need to place a small
>piece of stainless sheet metal on the inside edges of the horizontal stabs
>to keep from wearing thru the paint and fabric. Now these nylon blocks are
>carry the load rather than the hinges.
>
>So Mike, I think you may have a little appreciable wear. When I discovered
>the wear on his plane I pointed it out to Mike so he would be aware of it.
>I also shared with him my experiment with the nylon thrust blocks.
>
>Fly safe, have fun,
>
>john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Vibration |
Hey Richard, It's a 68'' quick ground adjust on a 3 to 1 E box behind a 582.
I did have some problems with the set up early on with the prop trying to
come apart at the hub. I always caught it in plenty of time though because I
use the inspection tape across the gaps between the blades that IVO
recommends. It took IVO three new sets of blades before we worked the
problems out . He would have given me my money back but I wanted to solve
the problem. There were others who had the same set up and the same
problems I was having. I've had three of the cams at different times on the
end of the torque rods break. THAT WILL WAKE YOU UP especially if your a
long way from home. That made it virbrates really bad at high RPMs but at
cruise it wasn't that noticable. Anyway I welded a little tit on the cam end
and ground it to the right pitch to match the other blades. No vibration. I
have broken two of the backing plates, the thin ones that the adjustment
screw is threaded through. I asked IVO to send me one of the thick plates
like goes on the other side of the prop next to the gearbox. He did with a
thin one to hold the adjustment screw. I put the whole thing on with two
sets of inspection tape forward and aft across the gaps. I've never had
another problem except when I kill really big bugs. Never broke another
piece of tape except when I pulled the prop to do a 50 hour inspection. I
also torque the prop bolts to 215 inch lbs. and check them@ the recomended
intervals. So far the torque stays where it's suppose to and I am happy with
the IVO'S smoothness and quietness.
I hope this helps. FIREHAWK.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
frank
haynesdled(at)worldnet.att.net
NEW 912 ROTAX FOR APPROX 7370.00
HIS # IS 541-7478817
................................................................................................................................................................FRANK
LOOK THIS UP
www.cs.fredouia.edu/~stei0302/www/ultra/clas
or fredonia. " " " " " " " " " " "
look under the united states ,classified adds under the mounth of
oct.1998
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>BK and Gang:
>
>Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started flying
>my
>912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two
>cycles?
>
>How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter?
>Or
>are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from
>the
>carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have
>come
>across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine
>from
>the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes
>it is
>the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
>trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps
>the
>eng
>nasty most of the time.
>
>John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is
>coming
>forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the engine?
>And
>this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how the
>carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough
>to
>keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
>
>How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it.
>
>This is not an option for a MKIII
>
>Thatis the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying
>backwards, not
>forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles
>with
>no
>problem, but they fly backwards.
>
> I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
>Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up
>the
>Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My
>carbs
>go one way, his the other.
>
>john h
>
>Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so
>that
>the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward"
>same as
>the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS
>catalog
>suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
>
>Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
>http://www.webcom.com/reynen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Engine Rebuild |
>
>Would you consider rebuilding a 582, when its time. I live 15 minutes from
>Green sky Adventures the oldest Rotax dealer in the USA and maybe having him
>rebuild but that might be about $1000 or more. How much trouble was it
>actually to rebuild I'm thinking about going to the Votec for small engine
>repair to get ready for when my engine goes TU. What do you think.
Have you ever rebuilt an engine before? Do you have the proper tools?
Are you willing to spend the money to buy the special tools and the shop
manual? Are you mechanically "handy"?
If you have never rebuilt an engine before, go to a motorcycle junk yard,
and buy an old rotary valve Kawasaki two stroke engine. Tell the guy you
just want it to practice on, it will not need to run after you finish. Get
the shop manual for it. You should be able to get both for under $50.
Completely dissasemble the engine AND transmission, and reassemble it.
If you felt comfortable doing that, and everything made sense, and seems
to have fit back together right, now YOU decide if you want to tackle your
582. Either way, it was good experience, and money well spent.
If you decide to rebuild the 582, get a GOOD set of snap ring pliers, the
magneto puller, the wrist pin bearing tool, and especially the little tool
that goes over the end of the rotary valve shaft. Get a good torque wrench.
Understand what the book is telling you to do before you do it. If in
doubt, ask someone you respect. Get a helper that is patient when it comes
time to slip the cylinders back over the pistons. If you can get a helper
that has rebuilt 2-strokes before (successfully!), you are ahead of the game.
Good luck.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
Is this the Ivo with the quick adjust system, or the type that just has
the plain cams screwed to the ends of the rods? I have used the basic
system, not the quick adjust, and it doesn't sound like what you are
describing.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
>
>Hey Richard, It's a 68'' quick ground adjust on a 3 to 1 E box behind a 582.
>I did have some problems with the set up early on with the prop trying to
>come apart at the hub. I always caught it in plenty of time though because I
>use the inspection tape across the gaps between the blades that IVO
>recommends. It took IVO three new sets of blades before we worked the
>problems out . He would have given me my money back but I wanted to solve
>the problem. There were others who had the same set up and the same
>problems I was having. I've had three of the cams at different times on the
>end of the torque rods break. Anyway I welded a little tit on the cam end
>and ground it to the right pitch to match the other blades. No vibration. I
>have broken two of the backing plates, the thin ones that the adjustment
>screw is threaded through. I asked IVO to send me one of the thick plates
>like goes on the other side of the prop next to the gearbox. He did with a
>thin one to hold the adjustment screw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
>John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is coming
>forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the engine? And
>this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how the
>carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough to
>keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
I think what it means is the air stream is blowing fluel out of the air
filters. I have used small conical K&Ns thru out life of eng, minus a
couple experiments with 6 inch flat/round K&Ns. Flat filters really messed
with carb performance (primarily hesitation during hard acceleration).
Ram air screws up fuel mixture calibration with these Bing Carbs. The float
bowl chamber has two sources of static pressure: vent tube and one on the
inlet lip of the carb. The vacumn chamber reads these two static air
sources and throttle setting (intake vacumn) and positions the piston w/fuel
needle attached, in the correct position to deliver the correct amount of
fuel being demanded by the eng. Stray air pressure or vacumn to the two
static ports screws up the carbs mind and eng performance, at times.
Right now I live with the following: I connect the two float bowls with one
piece of tubing. Mid point of tubing I drilled thru both sides of the
tubing vertical as well as horizontal (gives me four 1/8 inch holes). Now
both carbs are reading the same static pressure at their float bowl vents.
This prevents one carb running at different mixture than the other. This
mod seems to work well, but not perfect.
Next I have to work on getting good static source to the inlet static ports.
Two ways I think I can do that:
One way is put the aircleaners in the fuselage out of the airstream, using
tubing and one or two air cleaners. Or maybe using tubing and a 90 degree
bend to turn the aircleaner perpendicular to the airstream.
The other way (and not my idea) I saw in a picture of a trike powered by
912. They had fabricated hoods, same shape as conical K&Ns and a little
larger to place over the filters with maybe a 1/2 inch gap all around.
These could be metal or fiberglass.
I think either way would work. The latter, with hoods, probably be the
simplest.
>Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so that
>the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward" same as
>the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS catalog
>suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
>
>Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
>http://www.webcom.com/reynen
Don't think there is enough space to reverse intake manifolds. That was one
of my original thoughts.
Carb problems on pusher 912 are not overwhelming, just annoying, especially
when one invests that much money into an engine. Last year I bought a
brandnew 351W Ford eng for $2,000. I could buy five 351Ws for same price as
one 912. hehehe
Keep 'em flying,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Back issue of "In Flight USA" |
I'm trying to locate the Sept & Oct issues of the above mag, They are
given away at arpts, FBOs, etc. The issue (don't know which one) has a
letter to editor from the well-known CA aircraft designer that el
Stupeed Cringley finally went to when he was trying to do the "30 day
airplane" build. He really blasted him, saying he (C) had never built a
plane, altho in the movie he said he'd done SEVEN, including the slick
composite seen flying near Golden Gate BR. The designer gave name of
actual bldr!
Any help appreciated. GB aka Bob N.freelance writer, FF#70
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig, Peter" <PCraig(at)ctihelix.com> |
Hi all-
I have been dipping the rivits in Rustolium to prevent calvanic corrosion -
don't know if its necessary but I feel better. Anyway I have found that it
holds the rivets from spinning when I have to drill the occational...okey,
maybe numorous rivets out that I've goofed up. (I wouldn't dip them just for
that reason, its messy and slows you down)
Peter Craig
Malden, MA
Mk III (about half finished)
(If the rivet wants to spin, make a little tool with
a flat sharp edge, ground out a little to stick under the edge of the rivet
head. This will put the brakes on the spinning rivet and allow you to drill
carefully).
I need to replace elevator and rudder hinges, but procrastinate for the very
fact that I hate to get started drilling a zillion rivets. Oh well, one of
these days.
Later on,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "youngblood" <barry(at)hcis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Engine Rebuild |
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: My Engine Rebuild
>
>>
>>Would you consider rebuilding a 582, when its time. I live 15 minutes
from
Just testing because I did not get any mail last night.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us |
| Subject: | Wing failures ?? |
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told that the
single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure. I want
to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences on this
....or other shortcomings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody but I am doing
the research by asking you guys to see if this is a valid problem. Steph.....
(oo) | :\/: _ _ \ Jon's WWW mail cow gateway. That is to say, the
/ | MAIL|| \_ ' '`-'`-'/ anonymous prankster. Even though this message was
^^ ^^ could have been generated by anyone in the world.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
Hi Rick,
I was finally able to decifer all the info you send me including the
telephone message and get a message to Dave Haynes regarding this 912 for
sale.
Thanks so much for your assistance in this Rick!
Frank Reynen
P.s. I lost your phone # and would have called you back yesterday night.
Pls resend it.
Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com
frank
haynesdled(at)worldnet.att.net
NEW 912 ROTAX FOR APPROX 7370.00
HIS # IS 541-7478817
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
..........FRANK
LOOK THIS UP
www.cs.fredouia.edu/~stei0302/www/ultra/clas
or fredonia. " " " " " " " " " " "
look under the united states ,classified adds under the mounth of
oct.1998
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>BK and Gang:
>
>Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started flying
>my
>912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two
>cycles?
>
>How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter?
>Or
>are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from
>the
>carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have
>come
>across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine
>from
>the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes
>it is
>the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
>trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps
>the
>eng
>nasty most of the time.
>
>John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is
>coming
>forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the engine?
>And
>this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how the
>carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough
>to
>keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
>
>How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it.
>
>This is not an option for a MKIII
>
>Thatis the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying
>backwards, not
>forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles
>with
>no
>problem, but they fly backwards.
>
> I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
>Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up
>the
>Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My
>carbs
>go one way, his the other.
>
>john h
>
>Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so
>that
>the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward"
>same as
>the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS
>catalog
>suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
>
>Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
>http://www.webcom.com/reynen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
Stephen, on pain of my being wrong as usual, here's what Dennis told me
when I went to Phoenixville to see and buy a FireFly. I asked why the FF
had TWO lift struts, when the other, heavier Kolbs had only one. Answer:
to give FF more drag to keep it under 63 mph. I have never heard of a
Kolb wing twisting in the wind. I realize others may say I'm wrong, so
ask Dennis. GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>
>
>I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told
that the single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure.
I want to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences
on this ....or other shortcomings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody
but I am doing the research by asking you guys to see if this is a valid
problem. Steph.....
Good Morning Steph..... and Gang:
Single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and
failure.....................
If the above were true, there would be a lot of Kolbs out there with failed
wings. To start with, we'll get this out of the way quick, Firefly has two
lift struts per wing section. I assume you are talking about lift struts
although you say "single strut bracing."
Wing twist was a way of life with the Ultrastar, but I know of no Ultrastar
that had a wing failure because of wing twist. Of course I don't know much,
but I have never heard of such.
Firestar didn't have wing twist because Homer Kolb and Dennis Souder and the
rest of the gang at Kolb Aircraft came up with a much improved mainspar
attach system to the inboard rib.
Likewise, the remainder of the Kolb line. I invite you to try and twist the
wing of my old MK III.
Don't worry. The folks on this list that fly Kolbs are not alarmed by what
you say. We have a lot of combined experience in the air in all kinds of
weather, wind, loads, etc.
How this helps you out with your research.
John h (getting the pine straw and leaves off the lawn in Central Alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us wrote:
>
> I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told that
the single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure. I want
to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences on this
....or other short
comings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody but I am doing the research by
asking you guys to see if this is a valid problem. Steph.....
Hmmm, I'm sure you'll get a few answers on this one. :)
The question about single lift strut is probably the biggest single false
rumor I hear about the Kolb from the unknowing. *It is obviously a fair
and reasonable question*, but any rumors about this being a weak point
in the design are simply from the unknowing or the envious. If you
build a Kolb, you easily see the aspects of the internal wing structure
that bear wing twist loads. It is clever, light, and very very strong.
I only know of one properly built Kolb wing that has ever failed, this
one from John Hauck, who was treating the plane more like a Pitts Special.
I'm sure he'll chip in here; it was a high time original (5 rib) Firestar
always flown extraordinarily hard (any and all aerobatics), and failed
just after a hammerhead or something similar. Kolb is the *only*
manufacturer who has flight tested one of their planes to the point of
structural failure. It failed far beyond stated load limits, was not
a wing twist failure, and was even improved upon from that test.
Here's an example of the typical rumor on this. A guy I used to fly
with scoffed at my single lift strut Kolb. In typical "Unknowing"
fashion, this person drilled (4) 3/16" rivet holes 1/3 the way up on
points for a 2 gal gas can on each strut!!! What a fool. He assumes
the Kolb lift strut is inadequate, but he drills holes and adds a large
mass (the filled gas cans) to the middle of a key structural part of
his Challenger. I still can't believe it! (I think he decided to go
...ok, simmer down now Ben,
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Feldmann <stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us> |
| Subject: | wing failures ?? |
Subject: Time: 10:43 AM
wing failures ?? Date: 11/18/98
To Kolb builders & flyers: I am doing some research as I am interested in building
a Kolb Firefly, Slingshot or Mk III. I would like to hear about your building
experiences (problems/frustrations) and the flight characteristics in general
but ..... a concern I have is in the single strut brace on the wings. I
was recently told that this is a problem area as it allows wing twisting and possible
failure (it allegedly has occurred). I don't mean to alarm anybody especially
if it is not a problem but I would like some response from you guys
as to the validity of this or other shortcomings. Thanks for your response.
Steph.....
stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Guys:
A previous note on this list indicated that I had a wing failure on my old
original 5 rib Firestar. That is absolutely true, but the cause was not
from wing twist. It was from 755.0 hours of extremely hard flying, 1000's
of aerobatics combined with many long XCs flying overloaded in all kinds of
winds and weather. I flew this old Firestar like there was no red lines
anywhere. We were always wayyyyyyyy out of the flight envelope and
eventually just wore the little airplane out. This was the 1988 Sun and Fun
Grand Champion Ultralight and the 1989 Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight.
This airplane flew in 32 different states and Canada, just me and airplane.
I learned from this experience, that nearly cost me my life, that stress is
a cumulative thing. My little airplane started out life with a whole
number: 1.0. Everytime I stressed her I was subtracting a little from that
whole number. Eventually I asked her to do something and she told me very
abruptly, "Sorry, can't do it!!!"
Live and learn almost turned into die and learn. Thanks Jim Handbury for a
reliable hand deployed parachute.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
In a message dated 11/18/98 12:28:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us writes:
<< I want to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences
on this ....or other shortcomings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody but
I am doing the research by asking you guys to see if this is a valid problem.
Steph..... >>
Not that I know of. I have a pretty good handle on the database of Kolb
accidents. Structural failure is not on the scope. Crow hopping accidents,
engine seizures, first flight/ inexperience related accidents, there are alot
of these. There is one "structural failure" but this one is cannot be fairly
chaulked up to the Kolb company because the builder failed to install a major
structural bolt. If you are going to fly a Kolb it is much more likely that
the engine will let you down, not the airframe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven_Lorain(at)Peoplesoft.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
HI Frank,
I got this e-mail I think because I am on the Kolb e-mail list. Did you
get my e-mail with pictures included?
Please let me know.
Steve
Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com on 11/18/98 10:14:04 AM
Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 engine problem
Hi Rick,
I was finally able to decifer all the info you send me including the
telephone message and get a message to Dave Haynes regarding this 912 for
sale.
Thanks so much for your assistance in this Rick!
Frank Reynen
P.s. I lost your phone # and would have called you back yesterday night.
Pls resend it.
Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com
frank
haynesdled(at)worldnet.att.net
NEW 912 ROTAX FOR APPROX 7370.00
HIS # IS 541-7478817
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
..........FRANK
LOOK THIS UP
www.cs.fredouia.edu/~stei0302/www/ultra/clas
or fredonia. " " " " " " " " " " "
look under the united states ,classified adds under the mounth of
oct.1998
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>BK and Gang:
>
>Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started flying
>my
>912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two
>cycles?
>
>How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter?
>Or
>are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from
>the
>carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have
>come
>across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine
>from
>the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes
>it is
>the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
>trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps
>the
>eng
>nasty most of the time.
>
>John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is
>coming
>forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the engine?
>And
>this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how the
>carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough
>to
>keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
>
>How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it.
>
>This is not an option for a MKIII
>
>Thatis the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying
>backwards, not
>forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles
>with
>no
>problem, but they fly backwards.
>
> I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
>Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up
>the
>Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My
>carbs
>go one way, his the other.
>
>john h
>
>Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so
>that
>the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward"
>same as
>the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS
>catalog
>suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
>
>Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
>http://www.webcom.com/reynen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912 con rod failure |
Nov issue Aviation Maint. Alerts p14 speaks abt above failure.Case
broke, oil thrown, exhaust caught on fire. A/C was Diamond 20-A1. No
fatalities. Submitter didn't offer any cause.GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Wing Twist |
To John Hauck;
John, I can't help but ask you about your Original Firestar. From your
statement below you say you did aerobatics with it. In the past couple of
days I finally made my first flights with my Original Firestar, and because
its sluggish aileron response I would find it hard to believe that
aerobatics are possible. If yours flew like mine you surely had huevos
grandes, and my hat is off to you.
Was it built per the plans or did you have it modified for better
performance?
Ron Carroll
Original Firestar
>Hi Guys:
>
>A previous note on this list indicated that I had a wing failure on my old
>original 5 rib Firestar. That is absolutely true, but the cause was not
>from wing twist. It was from 755.0 hours of extremely hard flying, 1000's
>of aerobatics combined with many long XCs flying overloaded in all kinds of
>winds and weather. I flew this old Firestar like there was no red lines
>anywhere. SNIP>>>>
>john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
Steph,
If there was such a problem, Kolb would have gone out of business long ago,
and this list would not exist. The only Kolb wing failure that I have even heard
about was a compression strut failure on the earliest design of the Ultrastar.
The only shortcoming that I can think of is that if you wreak a Kolb, it's
probably going to be expensive to repair.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
SE Wisconsin
stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us wrote:
>
> I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told that
the single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure. I want
to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences on this
....or other shortcomings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody but I am doing
the research by asking you guys to see if this is a valid problem. Steph.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Wing Twist |
>
>To John Hauck;
>
>John, I can't help but ask you about your Original Firestar. From your
>statement below you say you did aerobatics with it. In the past couple of
>days I finally made my first flights with my Original Firestar, and because
>its sluggish aileron response I would find it hard to believe that
>aerobatics are possible. If yours flew like mine you surely had huevos
>grandes, and my hat is off to you.
>
>Was it built per the plans or did you have it modified for better
>performance?
>
>Ron Carroll
>Original Firestar
Hi Gang:
No mods to the Firestar. Strictly stock except for the longer 4130 heat
treated gear legs.
Please do not take your hat off to a fool who had no idea I could not get
away with flying an airplane to that degree that was not designed for that
type flight. My last aerobatic maneuver was 11 Mar 1990. Made a normal
takeoff but landed under a canopy, much to my surprise.
john h (waiting for an aerobatic airplane to again do aerobatic in)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>
>Steph,
The only shortcoming that I can think of is that if you wreak a Kolb, it's
probably going to be expensive to repair.
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>SE Wisconsin
If that was really important, we'd all still be flying Quicksilver MX's. :)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
A while back I mentioned that my comparatively untorquey 532 and it's
2.58:1 B-box was not happy with it's 64" 3-blade Ivoprop. Consequently I
have been using it as a 2-blade, and that was not too bad.
Sold that prop to a guy with a Buckeye paraplane, and got a 66" 2-blade
Ivo. First flight this evening just before dark. WOW!!!
No numbers yet for comparison, but first impressions are that acceleration
and climbout are 25-30% better.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
I should change this thread subject line to "Loose Lips ...MINE".
On my post about this earlier today, I made reference to John's FS wing
failure. He had related that to me as part of a private (him and me)
email exchange several months ago, and it was our understanding that it
was private info, certainly not mine to make public.
So today I screwed up badly. While writing earlier today, I had myself
thinking I was repeating a piece of that exchange that was perhaps
known history. But I started to realize my mistake more and more as the
seconds passed after hitting the Send key. I blew it and my sincerest
apologies go to John.
There is no way I can undo that send. I just wanted you all on
the list to know that I've sucked John into a discussion that might
better be left dropped. Worst of all, I slipped and breached a mutual
understanding. As a matter of list-serv habits, I realize even more
now how oh-so-important it is to review what you say, names you mention,
etc, etc.
A key piece to the original subject is that these planes are solid but not
designed for aerobatics. Kolb says don't do them. John didn't want to
talk about it. I'm wishing like heck the subject would die, and after
this message I think I won't hit Send on anything for awhile.
-Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>
>>
>>Steph,
>The only shortcoming that I can think of is that if you wreak a Kolb, it's
>probably going to be expensive to repair.
>>John Jung
>>Firestar II N6163J
>>SE Wisconsin
>
>If that was really important, we'd all still be flying Quicksilver MX's.
:)
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
Hey Guys:
I reckon I better comment on John J's very broad statement on expense
involved in repairing Kolbs. I find that most of the repairs that are
required in normal everyday little crashes, scrapes, rips, and tears, a few
bent aluminum tubes, and cracked nose pods, etc., can be fixed with what ya
got left over from building, unless it has been a long time since you did
your building, but by then you know how to do most of it cheap.
Big jobs like rebuilding fuselage, building new wings, or your butt, can get
right in yo pocket book. Neat thing about these little planes is that most
of the repair work we can do ourselves cause we built these little suckers.
For us that have our planes registered EXP, we get the FAA Repairmans
Certificate for our particular airplane and can sign off on all our repairs.
Don't have to hunt down and a&p to do it for us.
Nuff said on that,
john h (going to wash off the dirt and leaves I been playing in all day)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told
that the single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure.
Steph and all,
I would say the person who told you that was incorrect. I think the Kolb
wing is very strong. I just helped a friend cover his today. It uses a 6"
main tubular alum spar, built up ribs and drag strut, steel inner rib and
attach points and Stits cover that prevents any twist. A single lift strut
is very adequate. The streamlined formed lift strut when lined on the
inside with a second tube can function without even the jury strut. The
only reason that Kolb uses double struts on the Firefly (I was told by a
person within the company) is to add more drag to fit within the Part 103
speed requirements. I have the MKIII (jury strut free) and am very happy.
Later,
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig, Peter" <PCraig(at)ctihelix.com> |
| Subject: | Wing failures ?? |
I'm wishing like heck the subject would die, and after
this message I think I won't hit Send on anything for awhile.
-Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
Hi all-
I hope I'm not upsetting anyone, especially you Ben, by responding to this
thread yet one more time, however one of the most valuable contributions
this list makes to me as a Kolb pilot wanna-be is the open and honest
sharing of mistakes those of you with much experience have made. By the way,
I'm building my Mk III up in a loft at my in-laws place of business. Two
gentleman have come up to check it out. Both are GA pilots and both have
immediately commented on the impressive construction of the wings.
Peter Craig
Malden, MA
Mk III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
John is very graciously inviting me back out of the hole.
See how long it takes me to get back on the Send key? Really, just
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing twist - UltraStars |
I too had an "early edition" UltraStar that lacked the inboard ring around the
end
of the tube/spar. I added a ring using chromoly flat bar & plate. Form the flat
bar into a ring of 2 halves with the 4ends bent out 90* & drilled (so the 2 halves
can be bolted down on the tube.) On each half, I welded 2 tabs, spread equally
apart on the edge of the ring. The face of these tabs are perpendicular to the
spar & parallel to the edge of ring. This is then bolted & rivoted onto end of
spar. then out of the flat plate I cut out an X that connected the 4 tabs &
rivoted it to the 4 tabs. All the rivot & bolt holes should be drilled before
welding the tabs as the metal will be difficult to drill afterwards. All this
can
be done with just a 16" hole cut out of the inboard side of the wing. The
difference in handling was astounding. It was crisper & rolled much faster. It
john hauck wrote:
>
> Wing twist was a way of life with the Ultrastar, but I know of no Ultrastar
> that had a wing failure because of wing twist. Of course I don't know much,
> but I have never heard of such.
>
> Firestar didn't have wing twist because Homer Kolb and Dennis Souder and the
> rest of the gang at Kolb Aircraft came up with a much improved mainspar
> attach system to the inboard rib.
>
> Likewise, the remainder of the Kolb line. I invite you to try and twist the
> wing of my old MK III.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Scott.Pierskalla(at)HBC.honeywell.com, dwegner(at)isd.net
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Stephen,
I have the 5-rib wing of the Original FireStar and my buddy that I fly
with every weekend has the same. He bought a used one and after taking
the fabric off, noticed extra drilled holes on the bottom of the main
spar, at the H-section, because the builder botched the repair job after
an accident. He has checked it over thoroughly, the A/P mechanic that he
is, and determined the plane is safe to fly. That FireStar I'm sure has
over 400 hrs logged in 12 years with the 447
40 hp engine. He does inspect the spar on a regular basis and sees no
problem. My FireStar has 420 hours on it and we both are flying out to
AirVenture '99 next summer. If there was a problem with our older
FireStars making a trip like that, we definitely would not be doing it.
You can expect to see two Original FireStars out there, one with extra
holes drilled in a place you wouldn't want them, but then that hefty 5"
spar has proven itself on other Kolbs in many compromising situations.
Back in my early days when I was learning to fly the thing and I'd have
it in a 90 mph dive by not paying close attention to my airspeed and if
there was a wing twist problem, I wouldn't be here telling you this. By
the way, we both fly without parachutes. I say this not because we are
stupid pilots, but because we believe in what we fly is more than
adequate to get us there and back again ....... safely.
Any more questions?
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
..... a concern I have
>is in the single strut brace on the wings. I was recently told that
>this is a problem area as it allows wing twisting and possible failure
> (it allegedly has occurred). s or other shortcomings. Thanks for
>your response. Steph.....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>
>There is no way I can undo that send. I just wanted you all on
>the list to know that I've sucked John into a discussion that might
>better be left dropped. Worst of all, I slipped and breached a mutual
>understanding. As a matter of list-serv habits, I realize even more
>now how oh-so-important it is to review what you say, names you mention,
>etc, etc..
>
>-Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
>
>.
Gosh John I am afraid the only way to get Ben back for this breach of
etiquette is to securely bungey him to your landing gear while you do crow hops.
Anyhow since Ben (the mouth) Ransom ;) brought it up what actually happened
to the wing in its failure mode.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
>
>.The only shortcoming that I can think of is that if you wreak a Kolb, it's
probably going to be expensive to repair.
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>SE Wisconsin.
I would have thought the opposite. Most of the tubes you can buy at a
metal tube store. Most of the steel can be rewelded. If you wreck a
Challenger or
Quicksilver then you will be paying big bucks. If we can build it we can fix it.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
Hi Stephen: Can't resist getting my .02 worth in too. I mentioned some
time ago to the group that I had to make a choice while building my Mk III.
I had enuf money for full radios ( for flying in LA airspace), or a
ballistic chute - not both. Chewed my nails some till I built the first
wing. Hah ! ! ! Sent the money for the radios. Maybe get the chute
later, but I doubt it. If you'd like some numbers, consider this: The
main spar is 6" dia. and measures a little over .090 wall. There is a
massive steel rib / ring solidly rivetted to the inboard end. 9 more ribs
are rivetted on with 10 steel rivets each. An additional 18 half ribs are
spaced between the 9 full ribs, and rivetted to the spar and to the leading
edge. Full ribs are rivetted to leading and trailing edge spars. That's
for each wing. Drag struts are 4 - (four) - thicknesses of thick aluminum
tubing, telescoped and steel braced. One of my pilot / builder buddies
said "My gosh, you could hang a 172 from those, and they wouldn't even
creak." Nuff sed. Just something to get the group going
- maybe a little twist - built in - wouldn't be that evil a thing. A
little washout might make it almost unstallable, cause the tips would keep
flying after the inboard sections were stalled. Course, I understand
Kolb's are very mild in the stall anyway. And, thinking about it, you'd
probably lose some lift. Any of you engineer types have any thoughts ??
Big Lar.
> From: Stephen Feldmann <stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us>
> To: kolb mailing list
> Subject: Kolb-List: wing failures ??
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 10:15 AM
>
>
> Subject: Time: 10:43
AM
> wing failures ?? Date:
11/18/98
> To Kolb builders & flyers: I am doing some research as I am interested
in building a Kolb Firefly, Slingshot or Mk III. I would like to hear about
your building experiences (problems/frustrations) and the flight
characteristics in general but ..... a concern I have is in the single
strut brace on the wings. I was recently told that this is a problem area
as it allows wing twisting and possible failure (it allegedly has
occurred). I don't mean to alarm anybody especially if it is not a problem
but I would like some response from you guys as to the validity of this or
other shortcomings. Thanks for your response. Steph.....
>
> stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Rotax 447 timing |
During my ongoing search for ways to reduce my EGT's I found that the factory-
set timing was 2.2 degrees late. Rut Fuller confirmed this observation and
worked with me to insure dead-on resetting. Tom Hertz, our resident factory-
trained expert, was not so sure we should have reset the factory's timing
because he thought they set it electronically at during the factory test run
and it was optimized for this particular engine. He reasoned that the
standard .086-before-TDC / eyeball-to-reposition-the -transducer method was a
field fix and probably not as accurate. My argument is that even if they use
a timing light, access for repositioning (tweaking) the pick-up transducer
would be a major problem. Yes, the EGTs did apprear to go down slightly after
we reset by the "field" method.
Here's another thought on EGT probe/gage systems. Are Tempilstick temperature
indicators accurate enough to use in varifying calibration ? For folks who
don't know Templesticks look and work like color crayons but the marks they
make melt at a given temp. It would seem that we could put a Templstick mark
on the probe and watch the gage as we apply heat with a heat gun. I bought
two of them at a local welding supply ( $8 a pop) but they did not know much
about them. I remember that we used them in liquid rocket engine test firings
but that was long ago. I am planing to cal the Mfgr today and will report
back.
Plane Duane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
Just to let you know Steve the Cessna 172 and the 150 and I think all Cessna
air craft have only one strut and I'm willing to bet that their wing isn't
built nearly as stong as the kolb. The wing on the Kolb is what takes the
longest time to build because there is some many gussets and braces to cut
and rivet. You need to look at some ones plans of the kolb and you will not
worry about wing failure.
Frank
From: Stephen Feldmann <stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: wing failures ??
>
> Subject: Time: 10:43
AM
> wing failures ?? Date:
11/18/98
>To Kolb builders & flyers: I am doing some research as I am interested in
building a Kolb Firefly, Slingshot or Mk III. I would like to hear about
your building experiences (problems/frustrations) and the flight
characteristics in general but ..... a concern I have is in the single strut
brace on the wings. I was recently told that this is a problem area as it
allows wing twisting and possible failure (it allegedly has occurred). I
don't mean to alarm anybody especially if it is not a problem but I would
like some response from you guys as to the validity of this or other
shortcomings. Thanks for your response. Steph.....
>
>stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
Just to let you know Steve the Cessna 172 and the 150 and I think all Cessna
air craft have only one strut and I'm willing to bet that their wing isn't
built nearly as stong as the kolb. The wing on the Kolb is what takes the
longest time to build because there is some many gussets and braces to cut
and rivet. You need to look at some ones plans of the kolb and you will not
worry about wing failure.
Frank
From: Stephen Feldmann <stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: wing failures ??
>
> Subject: Time: 10:43
AM
> wing failures ?? Date:
11/18/98
>To Kolb builders & flyers: I am doing some research as I am interested in
building a Kolb Firefly, Slingshot or Mk III. I would like to hear about
your building experiences (problems/frustrations) and the flight
characteristics in general but ..... a concern I have is in the single strut
brace on the wings. I was recently told that this is a problem area as it
allows wing twisting and possible failure (it allegedly has occurred). I
don't mean to alarm anybody especially if it is not a problem but I would
like some response from you guys as to the validity of this or other
shortcomings. Thanks for your response. Steph.....
>
>stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
John, I just recieved my issue of Expermenter and want to tell you that your
Kolb looks great, nice job, wish my MKIII looked half as good
Frank
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing failures ??
>
>Steph,
> If there was such a problem, Kolb would have gone out of business long
ago, and this list would not exist. The only Kolb wing failure that I have
even heard about was a compression strut failure on the earliest design of
the Ultrastar. The only shortcoming that I can think of is that if you wreak
a Kolb, it's probably going to be expensive to repair.
>John Jung
>Firestar II N6163J
>SE Wisconsin
>
>stephen.feldmann(at)qm.phxhs.k12.az.us wrote:
>
>>
>> I am considering building a Kolb Firefly or Mk III. I was recently told
that the single strut bracing on the wing allows for wing twist and failure.
I want to hear from builders and flyers who can give insight or experiences
on this ....or other shortcomings. Thanks, I don't want to alarm anybody
but I am doing the research by asking you guys to see if this is a valid
problem. Steph.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 447 timing |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
I called CPS about this when I retimed my scdi 447. They said even the
factory set engines are sometimes off in their timing. Mine was timed at
.070" and seemed run fine. I retimed it to .086" by the "field method"
and didn't notice any egt change.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
]
>because he thought they set it electronically at during the factory
>test run and it was optimized for this particular engine. He reasoned
that the
>standard .086-before-TDC / eyeball-to-reposition-the -transducer
>method was a field fix and probably not as accurate. My argument is
that even >if they use a timing light, access for repositioning
(tweaking) the pick-up
>transducer would be a major problem. Yes, the EGTs did apprear to go
down
>slightly after we reset by the "field" method.
>
>
>Plane Duane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlyByScott(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | lb-List:2-Place Firefly |
Hi i was just wondering if the 2-Place Firefly is side by side. If anyone
knows just email me back ok. Thanks
Scott
Southern California
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
I have no wish to talk for Dennis but I did a lot of analysis on the Kolb
before purchasing one. A single strut is not a penalty if the wing is strong
enough torsionally and the Kolb defiantly is. Sounds like ignorant folk
stories to me,
Dick C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Rotax 447 timing |
HEY DUANE, If you want to get your EGT's down, Load your engine slightly by
increasing the prop pitch a little at a time. You can get the temps right
where you want them to be on clinbout and then reposition the jet needle to
give you your cruise temp. Firehawk.
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 7:53 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re:Rotax 447 timing
>
>During my ongoing search for ways to reduce my EGT's I found that the
factory-
>set timing was 2.2 degrees late. Rut Fuller confirmed this observation and
>worked with me to insure dead-on resetting. Tom Hertz, our resident
factory-
>trained expert, was not so sure we should have reset the factory's timing
>because he thought they set it electronically at during the factory test
run
>and it was optimized for this particular engine. He reasoned that the
>standard .086-before-TDC / eyeball-to-reposition-the -transducer method was
a
>field fix and probably not as accurate. My argument is that even if they
use
>a timing light, access for repositioning (tweaking) the pick-up transducer
>would be a major problem. Yes, the EGTs did apprear to go down slightly
after
>we reset by the "field" method.
>
>Here's another thought on EGT probe/gage systems. Are Tempilstick
temperature
>indicators accurate enough to use in varifying calibration ? For folks who
>don't know Templesticks look and work like color crayons but the marks they
>make melt at a given temp. It would seem that we could put a Templstick
mark
>on the probe and watch the gage as we apply heat with a heat gun. I bought
>two of them at a local welding supply ( $8 a pop) but they did not know
much
>about them. I remember that we used them in liquid rocket engine test
firings
>but that was long ago. I am planing to cal the Mfgr today and will report
>back.
>
>Plane Duane in Tallahassee
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:2-Place Firefly |
FireFly is only one very narrow seat, unless you could find a couple of
75# slim jims. GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
>
Just something to get the group going; maybe a little twist - built in -
wouldn't be that evil a thing. A little washout might make it almost
unstallable, cause the tips would keep flying after the inboard sections
were stalled. Course, I understand Kolb's are very mild in the stall
anyway. And, thinking about it, you'd probably lose some lift. Any of you
engineer types have any thoughts ??
> Big Lar.
>
I put no washout in the wing, but when I built the ailerons, I raised the
outboard ends by about 3/4" to give it just a tad of washout. Figured it
wouldn't hurt.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
WRT Washout:
I wouldn't put any in. As we discussed a few months back, the planes
fly/mush along at stall speed without spinning, even with mild aileron
action. Although not advised as normal practice, they can even be aileron
controlled (roll) while stalling straight ahead. That's pretty stable
stall mode flight and I wouldn't fix what ain't broke.
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skip staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
>
>Just to let you know Steve the Cessna 172 and the 150 and I think all Cessna
>air craft have only one strut
Cessna 120A/140A have two struts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Carell/Richard Clan" <jcarell(at)usa.net> |
I'm looking for info, comments, bad-mouthing, praise, or whatever on the
Kolb Flyer twin engined U/L. I can't seem to find anything about it on
the
net.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jerry Carell
U/L driver wannabee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Ben: Didn't plan on putting any WO in my wings. (and couldn't now,
anyway) Just threw it out for thought and speculation. Thanks for the
reply. Also, as far as the building process, I have to admit, I went out
the other night and measured and counted. Wanted to be real sure when
talking to this group. They know their stuff. I've been building - and
building -and and and - - - - It's been fun, challenging,
rewarding, ego gratifying, etc. but I'm sorry - I sure wish it was flying.
Well, hopefully by next summer. How long have I been saying that ?? Have
Fun with your Neat Toy. Big Lar.
> From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Washout
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 5:07 PM
>
>
> WRT Washout:
> I wouldn't put any in. As we discussed a few months back, the planes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi O.P.: Not a bad plan. Can you notice any effect, beneficial or
otherwise ?? I learned about the benefits of WO in flying school. Now I'm
learning that hang gliders have quite a bit of WO, and on my last lesson I
repeatedly found that the stalls were unbelievably mild - even in a turn,
and even in a quite steep turn. Believe me, I was really watching. That
was Momma Bourne's young son hanging up there, and I may be loco, but I'm
most certainly not suicidal, local opinion to the contrary. Big
Lar.
> From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Washout
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 4:43 PM
>
>
> >
> Just something to get the group going; maybe a little twist - built in -
> wouldn't be that evil a thing. A little washout might make it almost
> >
> I put no washout in the wing, but when I built the ailerons, I raised
the
> outboard ends by about 3/4" to give it just a tad of washout. Figured it
> wouldn't hurt.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Group: A week or two ago, there was some discussion about tightening
fabric on wings, and some of the problems that crop up. Last night I was
re-reading the Oct. ' 98 issue of Sport Aviation, and toward the bottom of
the center column on page 93 is a reference to inter-rib bracing tape. On
page 94 is a diagram. Since I'm getting quite close to covering - finally
- I listened to you guys, and then read this with great interest. Any
commments ?? Seems like this could really help the " wavy ribs " problem,
with almost no weight. Or is it that much of a problem. The point was made
about the last half-rib, between the last rib and the wing tip as being
difficult to hold straight under fabric pressure. Would this hold it
straight and true ?? TIA. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric Covering |
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 09:41 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric Covering
>
>Hi Group: A week or two ago, there was some discussion about tightening
>fabric on wings, and some of the problems that crop up. Last night I was
>re-reading the Oct. ' 98 issue of Sport Aviation, and toward the bottom of
>the center column on page 93 is a reference to inter-rib bracing tape. On
>page 94 is a diagram. Since I'm getting quite close to covering - finally
>- I listened to you guys, and then read this with great interest. Any
>commments ?? Seems like this could really help the " wavy ribs " problem,
>with almost no weight. Or is it that much of a problem. The point was made
>about the last half-rib, between the last rib and the wing tip as being
>difficult to hold straight under fabric pressure. Would this hold it
>straight and true ?? TIA. Big Lar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick Fine" <froghair(at)mailexcite.com> |
>
> I'm looking for info, comments, bad-mouthing, praise, or whatever on the
> Kolb Flyer twin engined U/L. I can't seem to find anything about it on
> the
> net.
>
> Your help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry Carell
>
> U/L driver wannabee
Hello Jerry,
I have over 300 hours in a Flyer. Also have some images of it on my
webpage:
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair/
Overall, it's a great little plane although it does come-up short on
climb-out (~200 fpm max). Aside from that, it handles like a dream, very
forgiving but able to handle a pretty stiff wind also. Mine has Solo engines
and they require a little more attention than a Rotax but the parts are
quite a bit cheaper.
If you want to know specifics, ask away...
-Mick
Get your free, private e-mail at http://mail.excite.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
<< A little washout might make it almost
unstallable, cause the tips would keep flying after the inboard sections
were stalled. Course, I understand Kolb's are very mild in the stall
anyway. And, thinking about it, you'd probably lose some lift. Any of you
engineer types have any thoughts ??
> Big Lar.
>
I put no washout in the wing, but when I built the ailerons, I raised
the
outboard ends by about 3/4" to give it just a tad of washout. Figured it
wouldn't hurt.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops) >>
I love my Firestar, don't get me wrong, but I think that it could be brought
closer to perfection here on earth, If it had wash-out. It would add drag,
sure, but it would do just as Lar says, keep the tips flyin when the main wing
stalls. Maybe the drag could be compensated for by changing the angle of
attack of the horizontal stabilizer to a more flatter angle instead of the
LARGE angle presently built in....this also causes drag!.....plus stability of
course, , but isn't it nice not to have a wing tip drop off heading for a
spin.. The pterodactyl had that washout, and I considered it one of the
safest to fly because of it................very docile in spite of having a
short chord.......GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric Covering |
>
>Hi Group: A week or two ago, there was some discussion about tightening
>fabric on wings, and some of the problems that crop up. Last night I was
>re-reading the Oct. ' 98 issue of Sport Aviation, and toward the bottom of
>the center column on page 93 is a reference to inter-rib bracing tape. On
>page 94 is a diagram. Since I'm getting quite close to covering - finally
>- I listened to you guys, and then read this with great interest. Any
>commments ?? Seems like this could really help the " wavy ribs " problem,
>with almost no weight. Or is it that much of a problem. The point was made
>about the last half-rib, between the last rib and the wing tip as being
>difficult to hold straight under fabric pressure. Would this hold it
>straight and true ?? TIA. Big Lar.
Hi Gang:
Been a while since I did any covering, but I doubt if it has changed since I
last covered my MK III wings in '92or '93.
I was self taught how to cover, dope, and paint fabric covered airplanes.
Started in '84 and did a lot of it until the final cover on the MK III. Out
of three airplanes I built and finished, two of those planes got the wings
covered twice, the MK III had two sets of wings the first few hours of
flight. All turned out pretty good. What I learned about covering and
painting I got out of the bible "The Stits Manual" and the covering and
painting instructions that came with each particular plane kit. I found if
I did what Ray Stitts told me to do I would get good results. I did and it
worked.
I shrink the fabric tight, cause in the winter the fabric will loosen up
some when it gets cold, and I do not want loose fabric. I shrink the fabric
on the wing before popping fabric rivets. Once the fabric is tight, if a
rib has a little curve to it, I can straighten it up thru the fabric. Once
it is riveted, I lose that option. Outboard false rib won't go anywhere if
it is properly braced before covering and shrinking. It is awfully
rewarding to do a good covering job and a lot of fun. Enjoy it while you
are learning and when you are doing it, cause when you finish, that part is
all over. Don't personally recommend rivets before or during the fabric
shrinking process.
Gotta go look at the Atlanta and New Orleans sectionals, maybe Jacksonville
too, and get ready to go to the BBQ Flyin at Quincy, Fl, Saturday. Gosh, I
haven't been anywhere since OSH.
Later Gang,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
>
>Hi O.P.: Not a bad plan. Can you notice any effect, beneficial or
>
Since I have never flown a MKIII with a standard wing, no basis for
comparing, but it is very stable in slow flight, and stalls straight ahead,
or in turns with no meanness.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Non-Kolb question |
Last weekend I bought a 1/2 ownership in a project. An old man in our area
was building a customized Mini-Max, and died part way through the project.
Here's the interesting part: with only cosmetic changes, and a slightly
longer landing gear, he has built it into a scale replica of Roscoe
Turner's "Turner Special", a racing plane from the 1930's.
Unfortunately, after his death, his daughter threw away a lot of his
papers, including the pictures of the original, and it's paint scheme.
I have come to respect the talent on this list, and beg your indulgence
in
this non-kolb item, please e-mail rpike(at)preferred.com if anyone knows any
reference resources where I can find the paint scheme. Thanks.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Since I have never flown a MKIII with a standard wing, no basis for
>comparing, but it is very stable in slow flight, and stalls straight ahead,
>or in turns with no meanness.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
Hi Richard and Gang:
Sounds like Richard's MK III non-standard wing has the same flight
characteristics as all the Kolbs I have flown. The Ultrasater, Firestar,
and MK III all use the same wing section outside dimensions except span.
All fly just like Homer Kolb wanted them to fly, gentle with no surprises or
bad habits. The Slingshot also shares those wonderful Homer Kolb flight
characteristics.
Thanks Homer,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Place Firefly |
| From: | rbaker2(at)juno.com (Ray L Baker) |
Hi Scott,
Have you had an opportunity to look at ? I think
you will find that the Firefly is single place only.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1... |
Dear Listers,
As promised, please find attached a list of everyone that has made a
contribution as of Thursday 11/19/98 in the Fall 1998 List Fund Raiser!
If you made a contribution using a company check, be sure to check under
that company name if you can't find your personal name. To the best of my
knowledge, there is only one name that is missing and that was a cash
donation in which I misplaced the envelope. If you sent cash, and your
name is missing, drop me an email and I'll make sure that your name is
listed on the follow up Contributor List post in a couple of weeks.
Well, I must say that this was the most successful Fund Raiser for the Lists
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Al Mojzisik for his unrelenting support, encouragement, and creativity on
my behalf during this Fall's Fund Raiser. Al, you're a great friend and
I thoroughly appreciate all of your help. Thank you!
I would also like to thank those of you that posted inspiring words about
the List and what it means to you. It would seem that your comments inspired
many to make that first time contribution!
Many of you included a few words of thanks and encouragement along with
your contributions and I appreciated each and every one. I was very moved
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been very inspired by your kind words and appreciation of the long hours
I have spent maintaining and upgrading this service.
If you were meaning to make a contribution but it slipped your mind, there is
still plenty of time to get it in before the next Contributor List posting.
As I mentioned above, I will be posting a Follow Up Contributor List in
about two weeks to acknowledge the stragglers.
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possible! I'm just here to steer... :-)
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List Administrator
To make a Contribution with credit card, please go the the special Secure URL:
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or you may contribute by sending a personal check to:
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PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
================== Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1 =====================
John Abell
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Brent Allen
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Edward Anderson
John Anderson
Aero Electric Connection
M.E. Asher
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Kent Ashton
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Ray Baker
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Belted Air Power, LTD
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W.B. Cretsinger
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Interlink Recuiting
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <dmcbride(at)indigo.fgcu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: wing failures ?? |
Well, to be excruciatingly accurate the C120/140 have two struts, and the
C140A had a different wing, more like the 150, with only the one strut.
There is a great web page at http://www.cessna140.com/
From: skip staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: wing failures ??
>
>>
>>Just to let you know Steve the Cessna 172 and the 150 and I think all
Cessna
>>air craft have only one strut
>
>Cessna 120A/140A have two struts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <dmcbride(at)indigo.fgcu.edu> |
Is there any use to having an ignition breaker in the BRS trigger, so the
ignition would be cut if the chute was deployed? Has there ever been an
instance where the chute became fouled in the prop? Or worse?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim hanson" <hansonjd(at)hotmail.com> |
Richard,
Try www.airspacemag.com, it can get you into the National Air & Space
Museum. They have Turner's plane and their archives can get you a load
of stuff for free or at minimal cost.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
>Is there any use to having an ignition breaker in the BRS trigger, so the
>ignition would be cut if the chute was deployed? Has there ever been an
>instance where the chute became fouled in the prop? Or worse?
Hi Duncan and Kolb Gang:
I have used a hand deployed prcht twice, both times forgot to kill eng.
First time was still at full throttle when chute deployed, second time was
at idle when deployed. Both times the eng was still idling when we hit the
ground (me and the plane).
I think I recall a prop fouling a chute. It'll wrap right up in a second.
My Brother Jim made me a kill system for my 582 from a Radio Shack Plastic
Box and two sets of Ford ign pts. Took some 1/16 lexan hooked to a 1/16
inch cable which was hooked to the bridal loop at the apex of the canopy.
The lexan went into the pts which were spliced into a wire from ground to
kill wires. When prcht fired, cable pulled lexan out of pts and killed eng.
Believe me, unless you are some kind of super cool dude, you won't be
thinking of hitting kill switches or anything else except getting your buns
safely on the ground.
When I replaced the 582 with the 912 I didn't reinstall the kill box because
it added to the complexity of removing the center section. Do I really need
it? I don't know. It is debatable, but for now I fly without it.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jon Steiger <stei0302(at)cs.fredonia.edu> |
| Subject: | Floats and gross weight |
Hi,
I'm interested in putting my FireFly on floats; maybe a Full Lotus
monofloat. It seems like a Full Lotus Monofloat 1000 would be
sufficient, but the FBO at a local airport has a few used and new
1700 and 2000 Full Lotus monofloats which he just aquired and is
interested in selling (he doesn't know what he wants for them yet
though); would something like that be overkill for the FireFly?
If I do this, it would definitely have to be an amphib setup; I don't
want to be stuck with land or water, I want to use both... According
to Full Lotus' web page, the 1000 and 2000 can be set up for amphib
(pricey!!!!! $$$$$$) :-( but the 1700 can not. (Any less costly
options here?)
My main question though is... I'm already at gross weight for
my FireFly. Actually, I'm slightly over, maybe 520-530lbs and
I believe the gross weight for the FF is 500lbs. Does adding
floats affect the gross weight? Obviously they'd add weight,
but I thought maybe they act as a "lifting body" which
would offset it... ?
Oops, I thought of another question: How does the monofloat
attach to the plane? Is there a mounting kit or something that
I need to buy from someone? (Kolb?) If so, anyone know
what it costs?
Ummm, one more question. :-) If I were to get my FireFly on
floats, I've played with the idea of registering it as an experimental
so that I could build float time (for reduced insurance premiums, etc).
Is there any problem with using Full Lotus floats on an Exp. aircraft?
Any "gotchas" to look out for here with registering my FF as an Exp
floatplane in general? (I am the 2nd owner, and not the original builder.)
Any info or advice on any of the above would be greatly apprecated.
Thanks!
-Jon-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Swihart" <mswihart(at)tcsn.net> |
Yes, there have been cases where the pilot didn't not turn off the engine
before deploying the chute. My own experience:
upon inspection of a 2 seater Q/S before I took my first lesson; my friend
(experienced pilot, came along to see if I'd puke after the big breakfest he
gave me) found on the BFI's plane that the static strap that holds the chute
to the frame would have fouled because of the way it was tie-strapped on the
vehicle!
IMHO ::: Ignition breaker would be nice, but I can for-see the problem will
be the propeller windmilling for a few seconds or so...it would have to
have a delay of some sort so that prop stops before deployment of the
chute...
-Mark-
From: Duncan McBride <dmcbride(at)indigo.fgcu.edu>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 8:02 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: BRS
>
>Is there any use to having an ignition breaker in the BRS trigger, so the
>ignition would be cut if the chute was deployed? Has there ever been an
>instance where the chute became fouled in the prop? Or worse?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Swihart" <mswihart(at)tcsn.net> |
| Subject: | UL: Off Topic: ICQ # Change |
My ICQ number has changed, it is now:
2378095
Please update your contacts lists and sorry for the inconvenience.
I have qtalk on both 'puters now....ring me up some time. :)
-mark-
ASC, EAA, USUA
PRUA
Bradley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Floats and gross weight |
Jon,
I've thought a lot about adding floats too. I haven't decided yet,
but I do know that I wouldn't add them unless I could do it for under
80-100 lbs. Even that much added weight is a significant compromise to
what used to be a 300 lbs empty weight plane. The other big piece of it
is that even without floats, you can land in a ton of places right next
to the water. I know that ain't the same, but that and the fact that
tundra tires and good gear allows much rougher, shorter landing spots
in a variety of places is a valid argument against floats. Then there
is the compromised flying attributes of the plane and the added risk
of water operations. All that said, I'd still love to have some super
light floats and may build them someday.
As for the gross weight thing, I'd assume that the float is not a
lifting surface, rather, just added empty weight.
One thing about registering Exp, I assume then that you would need
to get a Seaplane rating. Cost, choke, glug, ...
-Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
I have an engine shut down switch built into my Chute deployment handle
mounting. It is out of reach so it won't be accidentally be actuated but it
is physically tied to the actuating handle. If the engine is running WOT and
the cable gets hung in the prop at least the prop won't have a full power
stroke behind it. The BRS reps at Sun-n-Fun liked it but said it was more
important to make sure that the rocket, cable and canopy have a clear exit
path. Mine is a built in soft pack which means I have to have a door or
burst-open hole for exit. I am satisfied that between my carefully designed
exit, automatic shut down switch and IVO prop which I think would quickly
shear off if it met the cable I'll have a pretty good chance if I ever had to
pull that handle. I'm not sure one of those nine pound Warp props would shear
as easily.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reynolds" <rfreynol(at)mindspring.com> |
I've seen several planes with this setup, as a backup. I plan to implement
it in my Challenger currently under construction. It's definitely not as
good as having a delay to let the prop fully stop, but it is better than
deploying the chute into a prop spinning at 2000 rpm.
-Rob
From: Duncan McBride <dmcbride(at)indigo.fgcu.edu>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:46 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: BRS
>
>Is there any use to having an ignition breaker in the BRS trigger, so the
>ignition would be cut if the chute was deployed? Has there ever been an
>instance where the chute became fouled in the prop? Or worse?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reynolds" <rfreynol(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Floats and gross weight |
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Floats and gross weight
>One thing about registering Exp, I assume then that you would need
>to get a Seaplane rating. Cost, choke, glug, ...
>
Nope! not necessay. You don;t need a seaplane rating to legally fly a
experimental plan (or a tail-dragger endoresement, or a mult-engine rating -
if your exp. plane falls into these).
You will need it to get insurance though. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>I've seen several planes with this setup, as a backup. I plan to implement
>it in my Challenger currently under construction. It's definitely not as
>good as having a delay to let the prop fully stop, but it is better than
>deploying the chute into a prop spinning at 2000 rpm.
>
> -Rob
Hi Guys:
Do you all really think instantaneous deployment is not as good as having a
delay? Not hardly. I can almost guarantee you won't want to be sitting
there fat, dumb and happy, waiting for your prop to stop so your chute will
deploy. Uh, uh!!!!!!!!!!!!
If and when you get in a situation when use of the chute is necessary, it
won't be like on a nice Sunday afternoon flight where you have time to
decide what to do and nonchalantly do it. Your altitude at the time is a
big determining factor, attitude of the acft, is it stable, spinning,
flipping, flopping, what ever. It will be a big shock that demands instant
action, right now.
My first deployment was at 200 feet and 75 mph. Airspeed saved my buns.
Second deployment was aprx 500 feet. Not a split second to try and decide
what you are going to do, when the acft is in a 90 degree dive screaming out
of the sky.
I few days before I used my prcht the first time I was in Florida at my
brother Jim's house. We we were going to repack the chute. Jim asked me if
I had ever practiced throwing the deployment bag. NO! He sat me down on an
airconditioner unit with my prcht on and said: "Deploy it!" I did.
Several days later I did it again from the seat of my Ultrastar at 200 feet
AGL. I also practiced in my mind over and over what I would do if I had the
requirement. It was second nature, automatic. Same, Same in the Firestar.
I practice reaching for the deployment handle on the ballistic chute in my
MK III. I know where it is and I can get it with either hand or both
without looking for it. In a wildly spinning tumbling acft it may be more
difficult locating and pulling that red handle. Make it second nature to be
able to do it without thinking about how you are going to do it. And don't
fly with the safety pin engaged.
I remember a gentleman at Sun and Fun 1990 who saw a video of my prcht
deployment in the Firestar. He said he thought he would put his prcht back
in his airplane after he viewed the tape. He had flown with it for 6 months
and didn't need it, so rather than carry the extra weight around he took it
out. To me the prcht is insurance. I don't know if I'll ever need one
again, but if I do and I don't have it, it won't do me any good. I've
carried the 21 or 22 lbs of prcht with me since day one in the MK III.
Never flown the airplane without it. It is a permanent part of the
airplane. I don't realize the extra weight; to me it is not extra.
Just a little food for thought,
john h (getting anxious to fly to Florida in the morning)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net> |
Hi Gang
I also fly with a BRS on my FSII. I think an old ad said it best.
And I
quote, " I was once asked if I ever used my parachute. I replyed yes, I use
it every time I fly, but I have never had to deploy it. Food for thought!
Lanny Fetterman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A Question already |
| From: | rbaker2(at)juno.com (Ray L Baker) |
Hey Kolbers
I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
MAILING TUBES??
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1... |
925-606-1001)
DRALLE! YOU BEANHEAD! YOU SPELLED MY NAME WRONG! AAARRRGGHHHHH!!!
Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
(Good Thing I didn't send him much!)
Dear Listers,
As promised, please find attached a list of everyone that has made a
contribution as of Thursday 11/19/98 in the Fall 1998 List Fund Raiser!
================== Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1 =====================
Richard Pick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
cut it up and burn it in the fire place, I put mine in my wood burner in my
garage while I was building my MKIII in the winter. That was the only way I
could keep GeoR38 from giving me advice, keep it hot and he would leave.
Frank
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: A Question already
>
>Hey Kolbers
>I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
>checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
>
>The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
>MAILING TUBES??
>L. Ray Baker
>Lake Butler, Fl
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Swihart" <mswihart(at)tcsn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1... |
Get your money back! BTW, Check's in the mail Matt. Heh...:)
My Footsies are starrting to cold. *sniff*
Bradley, CA
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1...
>
>925-606-1001)
>
> DRALLE! YOU BEANHEAD! YOU SPELLED MY NAME WRONG! AAARRRGGHHHHH!!!
> Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> (Good Thing I didn't send him much!)
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>As promised, please find attached a list of everyone that has made a
>contribution as of Thursday 11/19/98 in the Fall 1998 List Fund Raiser!
>
>
>
>================== Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1
=====================
>Richard Pick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
Ray,
I cut one of mine down by 1/4 length and then cut a slot (about 1/4 of the
circumference) out, then I screwed it to the wall and kept all my tubes in
it. The cut length allowed the uncut tubes to hang out so I could see what
was in there (it was mounted on top of a shelf above eye level, but out of
the way) The small piece I just screwed to the wall and put any small cut
pieces in so I could see and use them possibly later.
Hope this helps.
Geoff Thistlethwaite
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 5:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: A Question already
>
>Hey Kolbers
>I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
>checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
>
>The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
>MAILING TUBES??
>L. Ray Baker
>Lake Butler, Fl
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:2-Place Firefly |
Think you mean the Mark-3 - it is a two place side by side. Requires a
license to fly and built and registered as a experimental.
>
>Hi i was just wondering if the 2-Place Firefly is side by side. If anyone
>knows just email me back ok. Thanks
>
>
>Scott
>
>Southern California
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Guys,
A rectangular wing will stall in the center area first and this is why
you will hear the "burble" in the prop prior to stall. There is no need
to add any WO with this type of wing. I'm sure this is exactly why Homer
used this design.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
>
>
> A little washout might make it almost
> unstallable, cause the tips would keep flying after the inboard
>section were stalled. Course, I understand Kolb's are very mild in the
stall
> anyway. And, thinking about it, you'd probably lose some lift. Any
>of you engineer types have any thoughts ??
> Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1... |
>
>925-606-1001)
>
> DRALLE! YOU BEANHEAD! YOU SPELLED MY NAME WRONG! AAARRRGGHHHHH!!!
> Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> (Good Thing I didn't send him much!)
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>As promised, please find attached a list of everyone that has made a
>contribution as of Thursday 11/19/98 in the Fall 1998 List Fund Raiser!
>
>
>
>================== Fall Fund Raiser Contributor List #1 =====================
>Richard Pick
Oh geeze, I'm sorry!
Fatt Dolly
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank & Winnie Hodson" <fwhodson(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | A Question already |
> >
>
>
> Hey Kolbers
> I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
> checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
>
> The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
> MAILING TUBES??
> L. Ray Baker
> Lake Butler, Fl
I had to cut the shipping tubes with a saw to pieces less than three feet
befor the recycling center would accept them as cardboard.
Be careful though as this operation claimed first blood on my project.
Frank Hodson, Oxford ME
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <joncroke(at)itol.com> |
>I remember a gentleman at Sun and Fun 1990 who saw a video of my prcht
>deployment in the Firestar. He said he thought he would put his prcht back
>in his airplane after he viewed the tape.
John,
Would you be willing to share/loan a copy of this tape for the benefit of us
that need to better understand and appreciate this experience??
(I would be happy to pay for handling/shipping costs or provide duplication
services or whatever that would make this easy for you)
Please excuse me if I am being rude in this regard, but I think I could
learn a whole lot from your experience.
Forgive me in advance,
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
Ben
I know just what you mean I have said some things on this list that after
I sent it made me go to the same deep dark hole, boy sure wish I could
have stopped the send message don't stay away so long we enjoy your
imput , as well as john h
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>I should change this thread subject line to "Loose Lips ...MINE".
>
>On my post about this earlier today, I made reference to John's FS
>wing
>failure. He had related that to me as part of a private (him and me)
>email exchange several months ago, and it was our understanding that
>it
>was private info, certainly not mine to make public.
>
>So today I screwed up badly. While writing earlier today, I had
>myself
>thinking I was repeating a piece of that exchange that was perhaps
>known history. But I started to realize my mistake more and more as
>the
>seconds passed after hitting the Send key. I blew it and my sincerest
>apologies go to John.
>
>There is no way I can undo that send. I just wanted you all on
>the list to know that I've sucked John into a discussion that might
>better be left dropped. Worst of all, I slipped and breached a mutual
>understanding. As a matter of list-serv habits, I realize even more
>now how oh-so-important it is to review what you say, names you
>mention,
>etc, etc.
>
>A key piece to the original subject is that these planes are solid but
>not
>designed for aerobatics. Kolb says don't do them. John didn't want
>to
>talk about it. I'm wishing like heck the subject would die, and after
>this message I think I won't hit Send on anything for awhile.
>
>-Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 engine problem |
Frank
Glad to help you out .. and sorry about getting back to you so late
been working some late hours and when I get home it's late I have to
feed the cow's , clean up and lights out, get ready for the next day
this little overtime stretch should be over soon keep me informed on the
912
( 409 ) 786-3611
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hi Rick,
>I was finally able to decifer all the info you send me including the
>telephone message and get a message to Dave Haynes regarding this 912
>for
>sale.
>Thanks so much for your assistance in this Rick!
>
>Frank Reynen
>
>P.s. I lost your phone # and would have called you back yesterday
>night.
>Pls resend it.
>
>
>
>
>Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>frank
>
>haynesdled(at)worldnet.att.net
>
>
>NEW 912 ROTAX FOR APPROX 7370.00
>
>HIS # IS 541-7478817
>..........FRANK
>LOOK THIS UP
>www.cs.fredouia.edu/~stei0302/www/ultra/clas
> or fredonia. " " " " " " " " " " "
>look under the united states ,classified adds under the mounth of
>oct.1998
>
>
>
>
>
>Rick Libersat
>>
>>BK and Gang:
>>
>>Breakin was not a requirement back in April 1994 when I started
>flying
>>my
>>912. Has that been changed to a breakin procedure like the two
>>cycles?
>>
>>How bad is the leak? Can you see fuel pouring out of the air filter?
>>Or
>>are you getting fuel residue on engine from fuel vapor standoff from
>>the
>>carb? This is a problem with my 912 and significant others I have
>>come
>>across over the years. Problem is caused by airflow over the engine
>>from
>>the prop and from flying. Sometimes it is the right carb, sometimes
>>it is
>>the left, sometimes it is both. A lot depends on how the aircraft is
>>trimmed in yaw. My eng has no oil leaks, but the fuel residue keeps
>>the
>>eng
>>nasty most of the time.
>>
>>John; Does this mean that "excess fuel from the vapor standoff" is
>>coming
>>forward through the carbs/filters and sucked back all over the
>engine?
>>And
>>this is considered "normal" for pusher applications because of how
>the
>>carbs are located? The ram-air entering the carb is not strong enough
>>to
>>keep the fuel vapors from exiting forward trough the airfilters?
>>
>>How to cure it? Turn the engine around and make a tractor out of it.
>>
>>This is not an option for a MKIII
>>
>>Thatis the way the eng was intended to be used, with carbs flying
>>backwards, not
>>forwards. The same or similar bing carb is used on BMW motor cycles
>>with
>>no
>>problem, but they fly backwards.
>>
>> I was having carb problems in Dead Horse,
>>Alaska, temps in the high 20s and low 30s. A German on a BMW rode up
>>the
>>Dalton Highway but had no carb problems. What's the difference? My
>>carbs
>>go one way, his the other.
>>
>>john h
>>
>>Is it possible to turn the intake manifolds around on the engine so
>>that
>>the carb sits on the backside of the manifold and "going backward"
>>same as
>>the motorcycle? The drawings(topview) I am looking at in the CPS
>>catalog
>>suggest that this maybe possible.(I am having a ball with this one!)
>>
>>Frank(wanting a 912 pusher) Reynen MKIII@481 hrs
>>http://www.webcom.com/reynen
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
FIND THE "MOTHER" OF ALL MAIL TO SEND IN IT ! ! !
I left one of mine beside the house for 2 years, and it turned into a
huge cardboard coil spring. Big Lar.
> From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: A Question already
> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 2:54 PM
>
>
> Hey Kolbers
> I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
> checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
>
> The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
> MAILING TUBES??
> L. Ray Baker
> Lake Butler, Fl
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Floats and gross weight |
Yeah, there's always that damn insurance isn't there ?? Big
Lar.
> From: Rob Reynolds <rfreynol(at)mindspring.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Floats and gross weight
> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 2:41 PM
>
>
>
> From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
> To: Kolb
> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Floats and gross weight
>
>
>
> >One thing about registering Exp, I assume then that you would need
> >to get a Seaplane rating. Cost, choke, glug, ...
> >
>
> Nope! not necessay. You don;t need a seaplane rating to legally fly a
> experimental plan (or a tail-dragger endoresement, or a mult-engine
rating -
> if your exp. plane falls into these).
>
> You will need it to get insurance though. :)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Diego O." <dor(at)epm.net.co> |
Hi, does anyone know Leading Edges e-mail address ?. Do they have a web
site ?
Thanks,
Diego O. (Mark III builder, owner)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
Ben, we all say things we regret later, lord knows I said plenty of them on
this E-mail site, and I think John is a big enough man to forgive, he
probably didn't even think about it. Any way have a beer and forget it.
PS my buddy and ole glider pilot GeoR38 knows I'm always sticking my feets
in my mouf
Frank
From: rick106(at)juno.com <rick106(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing failures ??
>
>Ben
>I know just what you mean I have said some things on this list that after
>I sent it made me go to the same deep dark hole, boy sure wish I could
>have stopped the send message don't stay away so long we enjoy your
>imput , as well as john h
>
>Rick Libersat
>
>
> writes:
>>
>>
>>I should change this thread subject line to "Loose Lips ...MINE".
>>
>>On my post about this earlier today, I made reference to John's FS
>>wing
>>failure. He had related that to me as part of a private (him and me)
>>email exchange several months ago, and it was our understanding that
>>it
>>was private info, certainly not mine to make public.
>>
>>So today I screwed up badly. While writing earlier today, I had
>>myself
>>thinking I was repeating a piece of that exchange that was perhaps
>>known history. But I started to realize my mistake more and more as
>>the
>>seconds passed after hitting the Send key. I blew it and my sincerest
>>apologies go to John.
>>
>>There is no way I can undo that send. I just wanted you all on
>>the list to know that I've sucked John into a discussion that might
>>better be left dropped. Worst of all, I slipped and breached a mutual
>>understanding. As a matter of list-serv habits, I realize even more
>>now how oh-so-important it is to review what you say, names you
>>mention,
>>etc, etc.
>>
>>A key piece to the original subject is that these planes are solid but
>>not
>>designed for aerobatics. Kolb says don't do them. John didn't want
>>to
>>talk about it. I'm wishing like heck the subject would die, and after
>>this message I think I won't hit Send on anything for awhile.
>>
>>-Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbaker2(at)juno.com (Ray L Baker) |
Diego
E-mail <info@leadingedge-airfoils.com>
Source: Ultralight Flying Magazine
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing failures ?? |
<< -Ben 'looking for a deep dark hole' Ransom
> >>
Ben....bet you never heard this one before....I wanted to confide a "secret"
to a friend of 35years the other day, and when I asked him before telling it
to him, if he could keep a secret?.....he said "no". ....................end
of dialog.........................GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Sharp" <msharp(at)tgn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
I cut mine up into 3' sections, covered with scrap carpet and made cat
scratchers with it.... got 20$ apiece for them........ enough for a pneu.
Pop rivet gun.......and some other toys...... ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Time to say Goodbye |
Hello everyone,
Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on. I'd like
to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment I've received
over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be exactly
what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been wasted.
Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some great
people, and made some lasting friends.
Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS pictures from my
web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough ) to post
some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a CD-ROM last
week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
rv8(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
>I'd like to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and
entertainment >I've received...
Russ,
We're going to miss you. It was good visiting with you over dinner (thanks
again) when you passed through Dallas. I hope the progress on your RV goes
quickly and you are into the air quickly.
I flew today for the first time in about 3 months. I couldn't believe it
had been that long, but my logbook reminded me. I have little excuse
except the building of our house in Central Texas. It only took me one
landing to feel comfortable again. I raised the clip on the needles of my
carbs one notch and they are preforming perfectly as regards the EGTS...
right around 1100 instead of below 1000. All the other gauges are in the
optimum range. I noticed that flat out straight and level my rpms were
climbing above 6500. I may tweak in a little more pitch on the AQ-IVO.
I bought a used ICOM headset adaptor for my ICOM A21 and it works very
well. I never could get the intercom (cheap one) that I bought to work
properly. Now I will be able to announce my intensions instead of just
listen to others. I feel a lot safer now. The traffic at our airport
today was busy with usually two or more in the pattern.
Pretty soon I will switch over to the full doors and full enclosure as the
temps are beginning to turn cooler. Today was cloudless with a 10 mph wind
aligned with the runway and mild temps. Perfect.
Later,
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Souder <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on ...
>>Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
Rusty,
We will miss you and your good sense of humor. When you get that RV reved
up, don't forget we have 3,000 feet - plenty for an RV8, come see us
sometime - but please watch out for us slow pokes!
Dennis Souder
Pres Kolb Aircraft
PS. did I tell you about the engine literature we just received, something
about a twin rotary engine installation with a single drive ....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
Russell
It has been great to have someone like you on the list thanks for all the
advice you gave to me as well as others we will miss you ..........maybe
you could peek in every once in a while.
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on.
>I'd like
>to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment
>I've received
>over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be
>exactly
>what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been
>wasted.
>Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some
>great
>people, and made some lasting friends.
>
>Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS
>pictures from my
>web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough )
>to post
>some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a
>CD-ROM last
>week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
>
>Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
>rv8(at)mindspring.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
Russell
It has been great to have someone like you on the list thanks for all the
advice you gave to me as well as others we will miss you ..........maybe
you could peek in every once in a while.
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on.
>I'd like
>to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment
>I've received
>over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be
>exactly
>what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been
>wasted.
>Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some
>great
>people, and made some lasting friends.
>
>Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS
>pictures from my
>web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough )
>to post
>some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a
>CD-ROM last
>week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
>
>Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
>rv8(at)mindspring.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
Cliff
Good for you on your flight I know how it is when you are in the middle
of building a house the time seems to flyyyy away well thank you for the
offer we may just take you up on it I did get a room at the DRURY INN
NORTH DALLAS
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>>I'd like to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and
>entertainment >I've received...
>
>Russ,
>
>We're going to miss you. It was good visiting with you over dinner
>(thanks
>again) when you passed through Dallas. I hope the progress on your RV
>goes
>quickly and you are into the air quickly.
>
>I flew today for the first time in about 3 months. I couldn't believe
>it
>had been that long, but my logbook reminded me. I have little excuse
>except the building of our house in Central Texas. It only took me
>one
>landing to feel comfortable again. I raised the clip on the needles
>of my
>carbs one notch and they are preforming perfectly as regards the
>EGTS...
>right around 1100 instead of below 1000. All the other gauges are in
>the
>optimum range. I noticed that flat out straight and level my rpms
>were
>climbing above 6500. I may tweak in a little more pitch on the
>AQ-IVO.
>
>I bought a used ICOM headset adaptor for my ICOM A21 and it works very
>well. I never could get the intercom (cheap one) that I bought to
>work
>properly. Now I will be able to announce my intensions instead of
>just
>listen to others. I feel a lot safer now. The traffic at our airport
>today was busy with usually two or more in the pattern.
>
>Pretty soon I will switch over to the full doors and full enclosure as
>the
>temps are beginning to turn cooler. Today was cloudless with a 10 mph
>wind
>aligned with the runway and mild temps. Perfect.
>
>Later,
>
>
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Steinhagen" <bsteinhagen(at)itol.com> |
| Subject: | FS-II AND BRS installation |
I have almost finished my soft pack (leading edge) installation. I hate to
see my alum-lexan gap seal go in favor of fabric seal. I would like to
talk to those that have done something other than fabric. How did you
rocket or entire chute pack?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Bruner" <brunerd(at)ulster.net> |
| Subject: | Re: waiver for property owner |
>
>Folks,
>Searched thru the Kolb-list for info about a waiver that could be signed by
>the UL pilot and given to a property owner who's good enough to allow you
to
>fly from their property. Maybe from some other UL source; but coulda swore
>there's a standard form available for such a situation - anyone know if I'm
>dreamin or where I could get one?
Well, that was clear as mud. Let me try again.
The waiver (think I saw it mentioned on this list) is signed by me, the
grateful UL owner and given to the property owner and it says something to
the effect that I waive all rights to sue him/her for any reason while
performing my UL activities on (or from) their property.
Still dreamin?
David (5/8 Mk II owner) Bruner
PS Had my first 2 hrs UL instruction today, courtesy of Jim Spadafora, at
Twin Pine Airport (near Trenton, NJ). What a relief: it IS possible to
comfortably operate the stick AND throttle in a Mk II. What a gas! Did a
bit of field hopping, (3 other UL/Hang Glider fields right nearby!)
including the legendary Buzzard's Row. Thanks, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
I tucked Rusty's SS into it's new nest today. Rusty is not only a trustworthy
&
enjoyable person to deal with, he is also a mastercraftsman. There is one serious
&
persisting problem I will have with his plane: I am forever going to have to refer
the endless compiments I'm sure to recieve about the workmanship to Rusty!
A man's work is a reflection of his charactor & this SlingShot says a lot about
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on. I'd like
> to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment I've received
> over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be exactly
> what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been wasted.
> Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some great
> people, and made some lasting friends.
>
> Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS pictures from
my
> web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough ) to post
> some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a CD-ROM last
> week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
>
> Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
>
> Russell Duffy
> Navarre, FL
> RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
> rv8(at)mindspring.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS-II AND BRS installation |
I have made several fiberglass fairings /gap seals on my FS2 covering a second
chance softback. I used laminated balsa for an exit area as long as the pack
opening and about 3/4 width. Make sure that the areas surrounding this exit
hole are smooth and snag free. It would be a real letdown to have a
successful deployment of a shredded chute.
Dick C
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: waiver for property owner |
| From: | mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine) |
writes:
>
>....Well, that was clear as mud. Let me try again.
>The waiver (think I saw it mentioned on this list) is signed by me,
>the
>grateful UL owner and given to the property owner and it says
>something to
>the effect that I waive all rights to sue him/her for any reason while
>performing my UL activities on (or from) their property.
>
>Still dreamin?
David,
I'm at a loss to help with your reference but it sounds like you know
what you want the 'waiver' to say - so why don't you just write it?
Actually the above couple sentences would probably do.
I had to sign a "waiver" to rent my hangar. Upon seeing it, I asked the
landlord where she got it. She said she had paid a lawyer a couple
hundred bucks to write it up. I compared my copy to a standard lease
agreement available for about 50 from any office supply store -
virtually identical! The lawyer skinned her for a couple c-notes by
taking a standard lease and replacing the word, "contents" with
"aircraft."
I didn't have the heart to tell her I was flying a "vehicle," not an
"aircraft!"
-Mick Fine
Tulsa, Oklahoma
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
| From: | mefine1(at)juno.com (Mick Fine) |
writes:
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on.
....
Rusty,
We'll miss your wit and wisdom!
If your current project turns out half as well as your last, it should be
a show winner. Hope you took all the jabs and ribbing in the spirit it
was intended.
Good Luck!
-Mick Fine
Tulsa, Oklahoma
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/froghair
Green Country Ultralight Flyer's Organization (UFO)
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gcufo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | New List Subscription Form! |
Dear Listers,
After a full weekend's work, I've come up with a really nice new List
Subscription web page. The page allows you to Subscribe, Unsubscribe,
and Search for your email address on any of the Email Lists. Subscribes
will still require Administrator Approval, but the page should really
go a long way to making the overall process much smoother for everyone.
The standard Majordomo email method is still available, but I strongly
recommend to everyone that they use the web page excluseivly.
I have also made some rather extensive modifications to the text trailer
appended to each of the messages posted to the List. I've added a number
of web site URLs that should answer many of the questions I seem to get
daily. I know the trailer is a little on the long side, but its great
reminder for everyone, and I filter it out before appending messages to
the Archive.
Please have a look at the new List Subscription Form and maybe see if
you can locate your address using the search capability. The URL for the
new Subscription Form is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
There are a few other permutations of the "subscribe" portion or the URL
that will work as well, for example "unsubscribe", "subscription", etc.
But these all take you to the same page, so just remember the URL shown
above.
Enjoy,
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
<< I am forever going to have to refer
the endless compiments I'm sure to recieve about the workmanship to Rusty!
A man's work is a reflection of his charactor & this SlingShot says a lot
about
>>
Now THAT is a genuine compliment!!..........We're all gonna missya
Rusty................GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mjc <mjc(at)etri.re.kr> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
I'm not a Kolb owner but thanks a lot for the very helpful informations from you.
I've just started flying and dreaming a Kolb of my own. (RV-8 is too much for me
and out
of my reach)
It was you that I've decided to build a Kolb.
Thanks again.
Moo-Jung Chu (from Korea)
> Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on. I'd
like
> > to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment I've received
> > over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be exactly
> > what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been wasted.
> > Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some great
> > people, and made some lasting friends.
> >
> > Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS pictures from
my
> > web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough ) to post
> > some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a CD-ROM last
> > week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
> >
> > Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
> >
> > Russell Duffy
> > Navarre, FL
> > RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
> > rv8(at)mindspring.com
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
Sorry to see you go Rusty. I've enjoyed your input - and output. I'll add
my voice to those who say " check in and say hello from time to time."
Big Lar.
> From: Russell Duffy <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
> To: Kolb list
> Subject: Kolb-List: Time to say Goodbye
> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 2:57 PM
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on.
>rv8(at)mindspring.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Woody, Ray, et al.
Am still alive and more or less, in operation... Thanks for asking... Sent
Ray a separate note a little earlier when I came across another one from
him... I am methodically working my way through the half-million or so
e-mails which have accumulated while I was out foolin around at the office
for the last month or so... 'Ol Saddam has us in high gear at work, and I
haven't had much chance to even do the eat - sleep - change drawers routine
to acceptable standards, much less fool around with the pile of dacron and
aluminum refuse heaped in the garage... (good thing I still wear O.D.
drawers...)
In late October, I finally got some fabric on the horizontal tail surfaces
and the rudder... This modest progress was compromised, however, by the fact
that my current Bride insisted upon leaving the garage door cracked about a
foot, so that her worthless little fuzz-butt cat could go in and out... When
I finally managed to get out there to do some work this weekend, I learned
that the result of that particular intellectual shortfall has been the
apparent adoption of my garage as some sort of high-performance proving
ground for exotic feline waste distribution and advanced hydraulic
experimentation... and it was evident that at least a dozen or so of the
more advanced participants had some bizarre
affinity for anything with Ray Stits' name or logo on it.... Particularly
the Polyfiber already installed on the stacked-up tail parts... There also
seemed to have been a great deal of interest in settling the matter of
ownership of the large roll of dacron fabric still under the worktable...it
was "marked" virtually from end to end with such a thoroughness, and to such
a depth, that a reasonable person would have difficulty buying the notion
that this result could have possibly been the result of random actions by
uncomprehending dumb animals... In my mind's eye, I could just see the
little buggers lined up waiting their shot, each with a little number
clutched in his paw, while the furry little foreman directed each, in turn,
to the precise location called for in the master plan....
Long story short... The neighbors were treated to the sight of yours
truly, on his flabby belly and bony knees in the driveway scrubbing what
they probably thought was the longest piece of cheap white carpet they had
ever seen with soap and hot water... Most of the obvious stench has
abated... although I have now fully reconciled myself to the fact that no
machine bearing the distant but unmistakable essence of feline territorial
imperative is ever going to grace the big winner's circle at Oshkosh, I
guess I need to reassure the cat lovers on the list that no harm came to the
'ol Lady's little fop of a long-haired cat over this... I do admit,
however, that I went ahead and cleaned a couple of toilets with him while I
had him all lathered up from doing the dacron on the driveway... But I went
ahead and dried him off and put him out in the back yard... Did you know
those little suckers get about a yard across after 15 minutes on the
permanent press setting? He still won't come when I call, but he does stay
in the yard when I go outside with food, now....
I cannot see inside the tail pieces, and I absolutely refuse to peel off the
fabric and do them again... I washed them out as best I can. I reckon we
will now subject 'ol Ray's epoxy primer to a long-term test by a solvent
vastly more formidable than mere MEK.... Last night I dreamed I was
taxiing down a ramp at high speed, closely pursued by a huge pack of dogs...
(sigh...)
Pray for peace... these hours are killin' me...
Beauford (the aluminum butcher of Brandon....)
still buildin' FF #76
From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 10:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: BEUFORD???
>
>>
>>PS Has anyone heard from that old bald feller, Beuford Tuton recently? I
>>spotted the wife sticking some kind a package ( looked like a food item)
in
>>the mail. Don't know who she sent it to, but I am a little worried about
>>Mr. Tuton!
>>
>>
>
> I was wondering that myself. I need a good Beuford story.
>
>
>
> Woody
>
> Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick
>themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Russell Duffy wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on. I'd like
Congratulations Rusty (and to you too Richard). It's odd, but I'm
just a little bummed by this finally happening. I'm real glad for you
though; nice to get on with the show. I see from Dennis' note that the
their potential market. I can now tell you too, that yes, Bill Hollmann
did/does have a Continental O-65 he'd sell. They're heavy though, so
it never woulda made a good option. Anyway, good luck getting Build
Time on the RV. I'll race you someday. :)
-Ben Ransom
ps: Went flying yesterday. Sorta murky and cold out. Buzzed the
usual local spots, but otherwise nothin special. Good to get a little
flying in before the long hours of tea time and visiting, just sitting
on my hands. (i don't know the first thing about playing cribbage,
not even how to spell it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
Happy Monday Morning,
Had a good time this weekend. Flew down to Quincy, Florida, for their
get-to-gather.
Sat morning I got up at six, the OAT was 35F. Ugh!!! Too cold for an old
fart to go flying around the countryside without an ECU (environmental
control unit) or in our terms, a heater. By eight it had rapidly risen to
38F as I loaded Miss P'fer and got ready to fly. Took a little coaxing to
get the 912 to start and run, the enrichers weren't up to snuff for the cold
damp air. I bought a new Wal-Mart 14 amp battery last month and it did its
job. No need for a jump start. God blessed me with a good day and we were
off the ground at 0830, winging our way southeast. I had to stop after an
hour and check out the back of a hanger in Clayton, Al, then another hour
and I was landing at Quincy.
They had a good turnout for the flyin, Kolbs overwhelming all other brands
of ULs and Exps. Mike Highsmith and Richard Lovell from Panama City,
Florida, were there when I arrived. Both previous Kolb owners, both have
decided to fly "other" brands of acft.
The Quincy boys had the grills hot and smoking. I sampled some of the best
venison sausage I had ever eaten followed by a delicious cheeseburger.
Compliments of the Quincy gang. Got to see Ruts "original" Firestar, that
brought back some memories of the 80's, and Dwayne's Fire Fly. Both good
looking airplanes.
My Brother Jim met me at the airport and later took me to St Marks for a
delicious fried shrimp, oyster, and Grouper dinner. Thought I had died and
gone to heaven. Overslept Sunday morning and got back out to the airport
for a noon takeoff for Hauck's Holler. It was misting rain, and cool. The
airport was almost deserted. We poured 5 gal of 93 octane in Miss P'fer for
insurance, then gave a gentleman, who was flying a two place Quicksilver a
short demo flight in the MK III. Needless to say, after getting out of the
Quick, he was impressed with the MK III and is going right out and buy one.
hehehe I gave him a good flight and the 912 performed first class. With
two up and almost 20 gals of fuel, plus my gear in the gear locker, Miss
P'fer was climbing 1300 to 1500 fpm. She made me proud of her. However, I
think we were taking advantage of the nice east wind reflecting off some
rising terrain. I didn't tell him that. Did some steep approaches,
couldn't see his eyes, but I bet they were wide open when I initiated the
first one. I tapped the vsi with my finger, he didn't have a headset, to
show him it had pegged at 2500 fpm rate of descent and 65 mph. What a
performance. Couldn't haul her to a stop as quickly as I would have liked
to cause the800X6's had turned into skis on the wet grass.
Off Quincy and with a pit stop at Clayton, Al, again, was touching down at
Gantt International Airport in less than two hours. Not bad for an UL to
fly 176 miles. I still had over 10 gals fuel when I landed. I could have
made the flt down and back, with play flying at Quincy, and had a five gal
reserve, but why take a chance on wind, weather, or some other act of God or
Rotax or "Murphy."
Had a great time and look forward to the next.
john h (trying to get started in Central Alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
<< I see from Dennis' note that the
their potential market. >>
What does this mean? or is this a joke about
Russ?.......................GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
> their potential market. >>
>
>
> What does this mean? or is this a joke about
> Russ?.......................GeoR38
Weak attempt at humor.
-Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS-II AND BRS installation |
<< I have almost finished my soft pack (leading edge) installation. I hate to
see my alum-lexan gap seal go in favor of fabric seal. I would like to
talk to those that have done something other than fabric. How did you
rocket or entire chute pack? >>
Bruce,
I have a Second Chantz soft pack mounted between the wings. The rocket motor,
which is about 1.5" in diameter, points straight up and sticks out about 3"
above the center section. The center section gap seal is made up of lexan,
with a piece of aluminum at the leading edge spar, as was explained in one of
Kolbs newsletters. I cut a round hole in the top lexan for the rocket motor
to protrude through. I then cut the top lexan to form a trap door, which is
about 6" wide and 12" long, big enough for the chute to be pulled through.
The trap door is made by cutting two slits 12 " long, fore and aft, about 6"
apart, and one slit going across at the aft end, connecting the two 12" slits.
The cross slit must intersect the center of the rocket hole, so that the cable
is free to pull out the chute, which would then force open the trap door. The
'hinge' of the trap door is simply the lexan 'bending' and is located at the
leading edge of the door. Once the door is cut into the lexan, you have to
secure it in the closed position, because the natural tendency is for it to
spring open, due to the curvature of the lexan gap seal. I just used some
tape to hold it closed. The rocket motor has plenty of force to overcome this
light restriction.
The lower part of the gap seal is harder to describe. On my Original
FireStar, there is a U shaped tubing (a hoop) above my head. First I pop
riveted a piece of aluminum sheet on top of that, on which I set the soft pack
chute. Then I cut out most of the lower part of the lexan gap seal, so the
cut out resembles the hoop in shape, but still leaves an edge resting onto the
edge of the hoop plate. It just doesn't cover the central part where the
chute is sitting. In other words, the bottom part of the lexan gap seal
covers the bottom surface of the wing, but only extends onto the hoop plate,
reaching in about 3/4" all the way around, for support. Now it gets even more
difficult to explain the rest of the job. I cut another piece of aluminum,
about 2" wide, in the shape of the hoop plate, with the outside edges even
with the previous mentioned hoop plate. Then I cut another piece of lexan,
about 1" wide to the same shape as the 2" aluminum, except it is 1" smaller on
the outside dimension. Both sort of resemble a horseshoe shape. These were
pop riveted together (sandwiched) onto the aluminum hoop plate. This made a
groove about 1" in width all the way around on the outside edge, for the lower
part of the gap seal to slide into and keep it from interferring with the
chute pack. This permits me to easily install and remove the gap seal, which
I have to do since I fold the wings after each flight. The gap seal is held
in place with velcro at several locations. Any questions?
Bill varnes
Audubon, NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is: |
<< I've got just a little over 300 hours on my Original FireStar with a 377
Rotax. It has been performing really good until now. During the past two
flights I noticed a strange vibration. It still seems to develop full power
on climb out, but after reaching altitude, when I throttle back, it vibrates
thru the airframe and just doesn't sound right. >>
CARBON. Too much of it. After removing the engine assy, I took it home to
disassemble it in my shop. I thought for sure it was going to be something
serious, such as the gear box or crankshaft. I had already checked the wooden
prop for tracking and balance. The gearbox had clean oil and no sign of metal
found on the drain plug magnet. The ignition timing was within .004" of the
prescribed .086" BTDC. As soon as I removed the cylinders I saw that the
piston domes were "thickly" covered with carbon. My last decarboning was done
less than 60 hours ago and I didn't think it would accumulate that much in
that time. But it did. I cleaned it all up, installed new gaskets, and took
it back to the airport. One flight around the field and Yeaaaaaa, its
sounding good again.
Thanks to all who responded with suggestions on what it might be. It gave me
things to look at before dismantling. So lets see, I guess I'll go and get me
some of that SeaFoam!
Thanks again all, for your help.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is: |
>
>>
>CARBON. Too much of it. After removing the engine assy, I took it home to
>disassemble it in my shop. I thought for sure it was going to be something
Hi Bill and Kolb Gang:
Just curious about all that carbon. I never experienced carbon buildup and
never decarboned a Rotax 2 cycle eng during my two cycle career (except
during rebuild). I reckon I just blew the carbon right out of them as I
flew. However, I never babied my two strokes, never cruised less than 5800,
and yes I did take them on nice long XCs often. I think long XCs at a
respectable power setting of at least an hour or more are necessary to keep
these little hornets happy and clean. In addition, every now and then, mine
got a shot of Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel tank.
I have noticed with regularity that my 912, as well as the two strokes, that
are flown only locally playing around the patch, tend to get lazy and lack
that sharp crisp feel that they should have. They get to where they don't
want to idle smoothly and just get plain lethargic. I can go on a descent
XC and the first landing I can tell the difference. Just like giving them a
good enema. Cleans them out. On this flt to Quincy, Florida, I put 16 oz
Marvel Mystery Oil in 25 gal (twice the recommended oil) and after a couple
hours she was back to her old self. More power and much smoother. Not
trying to sell MM Oil, but I have used it since 1964, when I purchased my
first new Honda 305 Super Hawk. Used to put a cap full in every tank. Did
it do any good? Back then I don't know, but I use it now in a 351W marine
engine, Dodge Cummins diesel, Kubota diesel, Onan 4 KW generator, and the
912.
Besides, it smells good!!!
john h (Hauck's Holler, Alabama, and Gantt International Airport, Alabama
(all 750 feet of it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net> |
Hello Kolbers,
I haven't been to active in this list but have definitely read alot of
good advice. Our MkIII is coming along nicely, we have all of the tail
pieces built and temporarily installed on the fuselage tube (It looks
like a huge lawn dart).
I ran across some information last summer concerning covering and
would
like some opinions. There is a company in Ennis, Montana called
"Aircraft Finishing Systems" that sell a water born finishing system.
________________________________________________________________________________
chemicals. Has anyone heard of this ?
Their Email address is afs(at)3rivers.net if anyone would like the
information.
Also I have been playing with a web page of our building progress if
anyone would like to take a look and make some comments. It can be
found at http://www.digisys.net/users/paulv/kolb.htm
Happy ThanksGiving
PaulV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: Floats and gross weight |
Hi,
I'm interested in putting my FireFly on floats; maybe a Full Lotus
monofloat. It seems like a Full Lotus Monofloat 1000 would be
sufficient, but the FBO at a local airport has a few used and new
1700 and 2000 Full Lotus monofloats which he just aquired and is
interested in selling (he doesn't know what he wants for them yet
though); would something like that be overkill for the FireFly?
As a rule of thumb use a float system that has a bouyancy of twice the
gross weight of your plane including the amphib weight and mounting
hardware.
If I do this, it would definitely have to be an amphib setup; I don't
want to be stuck with land or water, I want to use both... According
to Full Lotus' web page, the 1000 and 2000 can be set up for amphib
(pricey!!!!! $$$$$$) :-( but the 1700 can not. (Any less costly
options here?)
My experience with the MKIII on floats is to stick with Lotus Floats since
they absorb more impact force than rigid floats and the tubes are easy to
replace.
I would not pinch on the float cost but would look for someone that can
make a home build amphib system. My experience with the Lotus amphib system
has been less than satisfying.
My main question though is... I'm already at gross weight for
my FireFly. Actually, I'm slightly over, maybe 520-530lbs and
I believe the gross weight for the FF is 500lbs. Does adding
floats affect the gross weight? Obviously they'd add weight,
but I thought maybe they act as a "lifting body" which
would offset it... ?
The amphib system of a Lotus Mono float weighs about 35 lbs. Float weighs
around 45lbs and mounting hardware should be 15 lbs. Total added weight 95
lbs.
It all adds to the gross weight and drag coefficient of the plane.It
requires 25% more Hp than std engines for decent water take-off and climb
performance due to the added drag and weight. As far as "lifting their own
weight", the stall speed of my MKIII with duals appears not to be affected
by them compared to what other MKIII owners have reported but I believe
that once in the air, weight is weight!
Oops, I thought of another question: How does the monofloat
attach to the plane? Is there a mounting kit or something that
I need to buy from someone? (Kolb?) If so, anyone know
what it costs?
Although there are Kolbs with monofloats around I do not know of anybody
selling a mounting kit. If you can build a Kolb, attaching a monofloat is
not that difficult.The amphib hardware and mounting hardware all should be
combined in a single design.Kolbs also require a retractable waterrudder
for decent turn control on 10MPH+ wind conditions while taxiing on the
water.
Ummm, one more question. :-) If I were to get my FireFly on
floats, I've played with the idea of registering it as an experimental
so that I could build float time (for reduced insurance premiums, etc).
Is there any problem with using Full Lotus floats on an Exp. aircraft?
Any "gotchas" to look out for here with registering my FF as an Exp
floatplane in general? (I am the 2nd owner, and not the original builder.)
This has already been answered correctly. BTW, when I registered my MKIII
as an amphib,the FAA inspector had checked their records to make sure I had
a float licence before coming out to inspect it.
Any info or advice on any of the above would be greatly apprecated.
I personally think that monofloats with sponsons on Kolbs or any other UL
look ugly and it is difficult to get into the cockpit and use the plane
around other boats and docks but if all you use it for is to beach it maybe
you are ok with it.
Frank Reynen MKIII@485 hrs on dual amphip Lotus Floats
http://www.webcom.com/reynen
-Jon-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat Kegebein <pak(at)niia.net> |
| Subject: | A couple quick questions |
How far should the pitot tube extend from the airplane? Has anybody
connected the static ports on the carburators together on the 912
engine? What did you do with oil canister vent? And finally has
anybody had any trouble with the throttle linkage, not getting enough
travel in the cable to make the linkage move its full length(From idle
to full throttle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
Bill, I'm glad it wasn't something serious but did you clean the prop?
Please forgive me but what kind of prop was it? I've never heard of carbon
causing vibration enough to be able to tell it in flight. I learn something
new in this sport everday. What a gas. Something to put in the book.
FIREHAWK.
-----Original Message-----
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine vibration-The answer is:
>
>
><< I've got just a little over 300 hours on my Original FireStar with a 377
> Rotax. It has been performing really good until now. During the past two
> flights I noticed a strange vibration. It still seems to develop full
power
> on climb out, but after reaching altitude, when I throttle back, it
vibrates
> thru the airframe and just doesn't sound right. >>
>
>
>CARBON. Too much of it. After removing the engine assy, I took it home to
>disassemble it in my shop. I thought for sure it was going to be something
>serious, such as the gear box or crankshaft. I had already checked the
wooden
>prop for tracking and balance. The gearbox had clean oil and no sign of
metal
>found on the drain plug magnet. The ignition timing was within .004" of
the
>prescribed .086" BTDC. As soon as I removed the cylinders I saw that the
>piston domes were "thickly" covered with carbon. My last decarboning was
done
>less than 60 hours ago and I didn't think it would accumulate that much in
>that time. But it did. I cleaned it all up, installed new gaskets, and
took
>it back to the airport. One flight around the field and Yeaaaaaa, its
>sounding good again.
>
>Thanks to all who responded with suggestions on what it might be. It gave
me
>things to look at before dismantling. So lets see, I guess I'll go and get
me
>some of that SeaFoam!
>
>Thanks again all, for your help.
>
>Bill Varnes
>Audubon NJ
>Original FireStar 377
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id TAA22211
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
Hey John, Glad to hear you made it home okay. Richard and I left about 9:30
while
we still had a high ceiling. The prediction was for more rain down in P.C..
We both had things to do today and had to get home. Sorry to have missed
you. Rut took us to breakfast early in down town Quincy. We picked up some
gas for our trip home. When we got back Rut, his girlfriend (Deana) and I
got to go up in the QS that belong's to Charles Davis. He's an ASC- BFI .Boy
did that bring back memories when I use to train in my QS. Not a good X-C
machine but a great trainer.
The food and company was terrific and I must congradulate Rut on his first
gathering. He's only been doing the UL thing for a few short months and he
has already accomplished more than most UL pilots do in their entire flying
life. "Way to go Cowboy, YEE-HA".
Richard, Rut, Deana and myself took over the FBO after everyone left that
night, made a pot of coffee and watched every movie we could find that had
airplanes ,collected by the local EAA chapter. Then we watched "
Independence Day " again because it had airplanes in it. The rain had been
light all afternoon as you know.
When we finally called it a night , Richard decides to take his sleeping bag
and sleep in the FOB on the couch. The minute I get comfortable in my tent
the rain started and didn't let up for five hours. It was nice and not to
cool. The water repellant I got from Wally World did the trick on my tent
because I hardly got a drop inside and sleep like a log for most of the
night. I can tell Richard's days are numbered when he sets up his tent and
then takes the warmth of a cozy coach inside just because of a little rain.
To bad I didn't think of it first. But then he's only 71 years young with
2000 hours in UL's. I guess he's entitled.
For those who don't know Richard Lovel (AKA Bluebird) my wingman. He
started flying UL's sometime after he retired from the Airforce, where I
might add, he drove recovery boats to pick up downed drones and lots of
other assorted things from the waters south of the Florida panhandle. He
flew a QS 'til he wore it out then a Fire Star 377 but couldn't wear it out
after some 800 or so hours, no rebuilt engine either. He was looking for
something with more room back before the FSII came and settled on the
clipped wing Challenger. You wouldn't believe how much stuff he can get in
there. He probably would be flying the FSII if he had known it was only one
year away. Never the less he has 800 hours already on the Challenger and
it's still going strong. This guy just loves to fly. If there is any chance
to fly on any given day he will be in the air if it's only to fly the
pattern. He says this is his last airplane but our friend John Wayland is
about to bring his new Sling Shot on line to taunt him a little. Finally he
will beone of the slow one in the group for a change. He'll have a lot to
think
about on those long X-Cs we are planning. Texas, Arizona, Indiana, Kitty
Hawk to name a few. He is a world of information on X-Cs and where to go
and what to avoid, but most of the time you have to ask , maybe it's because
he feels it's more fun to discover things for the first time on your own
rather than knowing the end of the story before you get there. He want let
you get into trouble but he will let you experience flying the way he and
John W. did a few years ago.
Hopefully I can join them again in their quest to cover every square foot
of the southeast with a UL.
Anyway we got home alright. Ran into a little rain and low vis. just west
of Clarksville and had to descend to 1000' but no problems. It was right
after I sat down at P.C. that the rain came in earnest. We'll do it again
next year. Maybe more can fly in, as it was I am glad we all had a safe
flight
and a very good time. FIREHAWK
-----Original Message-----
From: john hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 11:52 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ
>
>Happy Monday Morning,
>
>Had a good time this weekend. Flew down to Quincy, Florida, for their
>get-to-gather.
>
>Sat morning I got up at six, the OAT was 35F. Ugh!!! Too cold for an old
>fart to go flying around the countryside without an ECU (environmental
>control unit) or in our terms, a heater. By eight it had rapidly risen to
>38F as I loaded Miss P'fer and got ready to fly. Took a little coaxing to
>get the 912 to start and run, the enrichers weren't up to snuff for the
cold
>damp air. I bought a new Wal-Mart 14 amp battery last month and it did its
>job. No need for a jump start. God blessed me with a good day and we were
>off the ground at 0830, winging our way southeast. I had to stop after an
>hour and check out the back of a hanger in Clayton, Al, then another hour
>and I was landing at Quincy.
>
>They had a good turnout for the flyin, Kolbs overwhelming all other brands
>of ULs and Exps. Mike Highsmith and Richard Lovell from Panama City,
>Florida, were there when I arrived. Both previous Kolb owners, both have
>decided to fly "other" brands of acft.
>
>The Quincy boys had the grills hot and smoking. I sampled some of the best
>venison sausage I had ever eaten followed by a delicious cheeseburger.
>Compliments of the Quincy gang. Got to see Ruts "original" Firestar, that
>brought back some memories of the 80's, and Dwayne's Fire Fly. Both good
>looking airplanes.
>
>My Brother Jim met me at the airport and later took me to St Marks for a
>delicious fried shrimp, oyster, and Grouper dinner. Thought I had died and
>gone to heaven. Overslept Sunday morning and got back out to the airport
>for a noon takeoff for Hauck's Holler. It was misting rain, and cool. The
>airport was almost deserted. We poured 5 gal of 93 octane in Miss P'fer
for
>insurance, then gave a gentleman, who was flying a two place Quicksilver a
>short demo flight in the MK III. Needless to say, after getting out of the
>Quick, he was impressed with the MK III and is going right out and buy one.
>hehehe I gave him a good flight and the 912 performed first class. With
>two up and almost 20 gals of fuel, plus my gear in the gear locker, Miss
>P'fer was climbing 1300 to 1500 fpm. She made me proud of her. However, I
>think we were taking advantage of the nice east wind reflecting off some
>rising terrain. I didn't tell him that. Did some steep approaches,
>couldn't see his eyes, but I bet they were wide open when I initiated the
>first one. I tapped the vsi with my finger, he didn't have a headset, to
>show him it had pegged at 2500 fpm rate of descent and 65 mph. What a
>performance. Couldn't haul her to a stop as quickly as I would have liked
>to cause the800X6's had turned into skis on the wet grass.
>
>Off Quincy and with a pit stop at Clayton, Al, again, was touching down at
>Gantt International Airport in less than two hours. Not bad for an UL to
>fly 176 miles. I still had over 10 gals fuel when I landed. I could have
>made the flt down and back, with play flying at Quincy, and had a five gal
>reserve, but why take a chance on wind, weather, or some other act of God
or
>Rotax or "Murphy."
>
>Had a great time and look forward to the next.
>
>john h (trying to get started in Central Alabama)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
| From: | rbaker2(at)juno.com (Ray L Baker) |
John,
Thanks for the detailed trip reports with all the flying detail. It
helps to keep me fired up and building.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple quick questions |
Pat:
Check the archives. Just talked about most of that stuff.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Well, now we know how to find ole Beauford when we want him. ( Do we
really ?? - - - now ?? ) On a warm day, sight across the tops of the
wings. His'll be the one with the air shimmering over it. Hoo Boy. Years
ago, an old Tom jumped through the partly open window of my work truck on a
Palm Springs summer day. Thank Ford for seamless rubber floor mats, and
Pine Sol for their product, and who-ever builds heavy scrub brushes for
theirs. At 50 mph with the windows open it wasn't too bad. Only took a
few weeks to finally dissipate. Good Luck, Beauford. With a porous
fabric, it must've been something else. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Beauford Tuton <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BEUFORD???
> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 12:23 AM
>
>
> Woody, Ray, et al.
> Am still alive and more or less, in operation... Thanks for asking...
Sent
> Ray a separate note a little earlier when I came across another one from
> him... I am methodically working my way through the half-million or so
> e-mails which have accumulated while I was out foolin around at the
office
> for the last month or so... 'Ol Saddam has us in high gear at work, and I
> haven't had much chance to even do the eat - sleep - change drawers
routine
> to acceptable standards, much less fool around with the pile of dacron
and
> aluminum refuse heaped in the garage... (good thing I still wear O.D.
> drawers...)
>
> In late October, I finally got some fabric on the horizontal tail
surfaces
> and the rudder... This modest progress was compromised, however, by the
fact
> that my current Bride insisted upon leaving the garage door cracked about
a
> foot, so that her worthless little fuzz-butt cat could go in and out...
When
> I finally managed to get out there to do some work this weekend, I
learned
> that the result of that particular intellectual shortfall has been the
> apparent adoption of my garage as some sort of high-performance proving
> ground for exotic feline waste distribution and advanced hydraulic
> experimentation... and it was evident that at least a dozen or so of the
> more advanced participants had some bizarre
> affinity for anything with Ray Stits' name or logo on it.... Particularly
> the Polyfiber already installed on the stacked-up tail parts... There
also
> seemed to have been a great deal of interest in settling the matter of
> ownership of the large roll of dacron fabric still under the
worktable...it
> was "marked" virtually from end to end with such a thoroughness, and to
such
> a depth, that a reasonable person would have difficulty buying the notion
> that this result could have possibly been the result of random actions by
> uncomprehending dumb animals... In my mind's eye, I could just see the
> little buggers lined up waiting their shot, each with a little number
> clutched in his paw, while the furry little foreman directed each, in
turn,
> to the precise location called for in the master plan....
> Long story short... The neighbors were treated to the sight of yours
> truly, on his flabby belly and bony knees in the driveway scrubbing what
> they probably thought was the longest piece of cheap white carpet they
had
> ever seen with soap and hot water... Most of the obvious stench has
> abated... although I have now fully reconciled myself to the fact that no
> machine bearing the distant but unmistakable essence of feline
territorial
> imperative is ever going to grace the big winner's circle at Oshkosh, I
> guess I need to reassure the cat lovers on the list that no harm came to
the
> 'ol Lady's little fop of a long-haired cat over this... I do admit,
> however, that I went ahead and cleaned a couple of toilets with him while
I
> had him all lathered up from doing the dacron on the driveway... But I
went
> ahead and dried him off and put him out in the back yard... Did you know
> those little suckers get about a yard across after 15 minutes on the
> permanent press setting? He still won't come when I call, but he does
stay
> in the yard when I go outside with food, now....
> I cannot see inside the tail pieces, and I absolutely refuse to peel off
the
> fabric and do them again... I washed them out as best I can. I reckon
we
> will now subject 'ol Ray's epoxy primer to a long-term test by a solvent
> vastly more formidable than mere MEK.... Last night I dreamed I was
> taxiing down a ramp at high speed, closely pursued by a huge pack of
dogs...
> (sigh...)
>
> Pray for peace... these hours are killin' me...
> Beauford (the aluminum butcher of Brandon....)
> still buildin' FF #76
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 10:20 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: BEUFORD???
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>PS Has anyone heard from that old bald feller, Beuford Tuton recently?
I
> >>spotted the wife sticking some kind a package ( looked like a food
item)
> in
> >>the mail. Don't know who she sent it to, but I am a little worried
about
> >>Mr. Tuton!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I was wondering that myself. I need a good Beuford story.
> >
> >
> >
> > Woody
> >
> > Some men are able to stumble over the truth but are able to pick
> >themselves up and keep walking as if nothing had happened. (Churchill)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Pull the trigger |
Hey Ben, now you don't have to feel like the lone stranger. I just
composed my message to Beauford, and started highlighting the areas to
delete, to shorten the message. Instead of clicking " Cut ", habit took my
fingers to the " Send " button. Well, it's gone. Kinda reminds me of the
Seagram's Ad years ago. Showed some loose rifle ammunition, with one empty
laying beside them. Said something to the effect of "once you pull the
trigger, no power on earth can bring it back." We have sort of the same
thing, with a little less drastic consequences. Let he who is without sin
- - - - - - - Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
You Bet ! ! ! Me too, John - it helps keep us sorta wannabe's working.
We're not true wannabe's cause we ARE working on the solution - aren't we
?? Just seems like sometimes the solution's a long, long time in coming.
Fantasizing and day-dreaming, and sitting in the seat making vroom-vroom
noises is great, but it does help knowing that the fortunate few are out
there DOING IT. Yeah. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ
> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 8:00 PM
>
>
> John,
>
> Thanks for the detailed trip reports with all the flying detail. It
> helps to keep me fired up and building.
> L. Ray Baker
> Lake Butler, Fl
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: by Rusty, and a crash report |
Rusty, too bad you feel the need for speed, have fun in the new hot rod.
Enjoyed your contributions greatly.
Tonight an 80 year old guy crashed into a tree on a longer then he though
final cause he says he was blinded by the setting sun. the tree he hit was
about ten feet from a house! Maybe he should take a look at the altimeter
from time to time if you are flying blind! Anyway he walked away from the
crash and didnt complain of any injuries, but now the news says he is in
surgery with internal injuries in critical condition. If you ever crack up
your plane make sure you get a checked out by a DR. even if you think you
are only a little sore. My wife had a lady come walking into her ER the
other day 36 hours after a car crash complaining of a sore neck... the xrays
revealed a hangmans fracture and she was a small wrong move from death or at
least paralysis! Get checked out, and dont fly into trees!
Topher
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Time to say Goodbye
>
>Sorry to see you go Rusty. I've enjoyed your input - and output. I'll add
>my voice to those who say " check in and say hello from time to time."
> Big Lar.
>
>----------
>> From: Russell Duffy <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
>> To: Kolb list
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Time to say Goodbye
>> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 2:57 PM
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on.
>
>>rv8(at)mindspring.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Christensen" <SPECTRUMINTERNATIONAL(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 3:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: A Question already
>Hey Kolbers
Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL MAILING TUBES??
>L. Ray Baker
>Lake Butler, Fl
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Ray;
One more idea for you to consider; I cut mine in half length-wise. During
the construction process, I placed one of the halves on top to the fuselage
tube. It was a great way to protect the tube from dings over my 4-1/2 year
construction cycle.
Ron Christensen
MKIII1/2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Bruner" <brunerd(at)ulster.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Souder <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Time to say Goodbye
>Dennis Souder
>Pres Kolb Aircraft
>
>PS. did I tell you about the engine literature we just received, something
>about a twin rotary engine installation with a single drive ....
>
I guess he's really gone to have missed this bit of humor!
But seriously though, UL motors may be their Achilles heal for a lot more
folks than just Rusty. The caution to keep an emergency landing site in
view constantly, that it's not IF but WHEN the motor dies, is a huge
disadvantage to the UL community.
I saw a Wankel display at Oshkosh - very interesting. Expensive! Had a
60hp twin rotor mounted in a go kart, but never saw it run. They also had a
static display with a prop setup which seemed to work OK, but the whole
prospect looked a bit premature. And very expensive! I guess that, and
weight, are the main reasons 2cycles rule.
Wonder about that BMW boxer conversion I've heard about...
David (another Rusty lamentation) Bruner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Ultimate Solution |
Ray....
I figure one of the longer cardboard shipping tubes ought to hold a minimum
of three hundred cats if they are put in there properly.... i.e. at high
velocity..... I have the first few candidates for this undertaking at hand
here on the premises should you care to pursue this experiment...
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mjc <mjc(at)etri.re.kr> |
| Subject: | Kolb pictures?-wing floded |
Hi, there,
Where can I find Kolb pictures - especially Mk-III- with wings folded?
With the trailor is better.
Thanks,
mjc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb pictures?-wing floded |
In a message dated 11/24/98 8:39:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, mjc(at)etri.re.kr
writes:
<< Where can I find Kolb pictures - especially Mk-III- with wings folded? >>
see http://members.aol.com/cavuontop/collect/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
>Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL MAILING TUBES??
>It was a great way to protect the tube from dings...
Ron and all,
Excellent suggestion. I wish I had done that.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, David Bruner wrote:
> But seriously though, UL motors may be their Achilles heal for a lot more
> folks than just Rusty. The caution to keep an emergency landing site in
> view constantly, that it's not IF but WHEN the motor dies, is a huge
> disadvantage to the UL community.
I don't think it is exactly huge. Definetly a factor, but 2-strokes
can be kept pretty reliable. Main thing required is knowledge of what
they want, and then the diligence to treat them right. 2-strokes are
sorta dirty, loud, need oil added to gas, and deliver unwanted vibration
to plane and pilot. With all that, and an ultralight's ability to land
in little space means reliability isn't the top of the disadvantage
column as far as I'm concerned. Of course I may change my tune when mine
decides to go quiet again someday.
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <dmcbride(at)indigo.fgcu.edu> |
I'm beginning to sweat whether I can get a folded Mark III in my garage. II
only have 83'' with the garage door up. According to the brochures, I'd be
ok with a 582 and a two-blade prop, but how about a 912? The brochure lists
a three-blade with the 912, but would a two blade stick up as high as a
three blade, even if the two-blade was a few inches greater in diameter and
the engine had to sit an inch or two higher? Could any of you with a 912
tell me what prop you're using, how much clearance you have from prop tip to
fuselage tube, and the total height? Many thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
>ok with a 582 and a two-blade prop, but how about a 912? The brochure
lists
>a three-blade with the 912, but would a two blade stick up as high as a
>three blade, even if the two-blade was a few inches greater in diameter and
>the engine had to sit an inch or two higher? Could any of you with a 912
>tell me what prop you're using, how much clearance you have from prop tip
to
>fuselage tube, and the total height? Many thanks.
Duncan and Gang:
I use a 70" dia 3-blade prop on my MKIII/912.
Don't know what the boom clearance and total height is. Have to go to
airstrip and measure.
Two blade prop would give you a lot more clearance than 3-blade.
My 912 is about an inch lower and 1/2 inch further forward than the factory
mounts.
Next time I go to Gantt Int AP I will try and remember to take a tape
measure and get the info for you.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | T Swartz <tswartz(at)ptdprolog.net> |
Duncan
You should make it. My 912 MKIII with a 70" warp drive would just make it and
my garage door is 83" high as well. Turn one blade straight down and the others
will be a little lower.
Terry
Duncan McBride wrote:
>
> I'm beginning to sweat whether I can get a folded Mark III in my garage. II
> only have 83'' with the garage door up. According to the brochures, I'd be
> ok with a 582 and a two-blade prop, but how about a 912? The brochure lists
> a three-blade with the 912, but would a two blade stick up as high as a
> three blade, even if the two-blade was a few inches greater in diameter and
> the engine had to sit an inch or two higher? Could any of you with a 912
> tell me what prop you're using, how much clearance you have from prop tip to
> fuselage tube, and the total height? Many thanks.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | T Swartz <tswartz(at)ptdprolog.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple quick questions |
Pat Kegebein wrote:
>
> How far should the pitot tube extend from the airplane?
I purchased a L-shaped pitot/static tub from Aircraft Spruce and mounted on the
bottom of the nose cone near the nose skid. It works great.
> Has anybody
> connected the static ports on the carburators together on the 912
> engine? What did you do with oil canister vent?
Ran a vent line to the back of the engine between the engine and the motor
mount.
> And finally has
> anybody had any trouble with the throttle linkage, not getting enough
> travel in the cable to make the linkage move its full length(From idle
> to full throttle)
No trouble with throttle linkage. Be sure you have the throttle lever for the
912 since it works opposite of the 2-strokes.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< For those who don't know Richard Lovel (AKA Bluebird) my wingman. >>
Michael,
Loved your story about Richard. My wingman is Kenny Mancus. He is 73 years
of age and will go flying at the drop of a hat. Has a KXP with 600+ hours
since spring of 92. One time I got up real early and flew over his house. He
came running out, never looked up to see who it was, just jumped in his car
and raced to the airport. He almost beat me back there. It was going to be a
windy day, so rather than set his plane up for such a short flight, I asked
him to take a ride in mine. What a joy it was to see the smile on his face.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Bill, I'm glad it wasn't something serious but did you clean the prop?
Please forgive me but what kind of prop was it? I've never heard of carbon
causing vibration enough to be able to tell it in flight. I learn something
new in this sport everday. What a gas. Something to put in the book. >>
Hi Michael,
The prop is a Tennessee, wood, 66 X 30, clean it after each flight, looks like
new. Had checked tracking and balance before removing engine and both were
good. I usually cruise at 4800 to 5000 RPM with this prop (to keep up with my
buddy who has a KXP 447 with 66 X 32 and turns 4500 most of the time). My CHT
about 250 and EGT indicates 1100, sometimes lower. Plugs are a nice light
chocolate brown color, so mixture appears to be not overly rich. But
apparently something is making lots of carbon. I'm using Castrol Super
snowmobile oil @ 50:1
I know the reccomended prop for this engine is 66 X 28, but when I originally
got my kit it had a 66 X 32 prop and I flew with that one 3 years. And I
turned less RPM, in the 4200 to 4500 range The EGT then was really low, in
the 900 to 1000 range. It didn't seem to make as much carbon, but it did make
it and I decarbon every winter when its to cold to fly. I mostly use Amoco
fuel, but have also used others on occasion. Guess I'll have to start
experimenting to see if I can reduce the carbon buildup. Funny thing is, it
only gets on the piston dome. The heads are clean!
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Quincy, Florida, Flyin and BBQ |
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, john hauck wrote:
> hehehe I gave him a good flight and the 912 performed first class. With
> two up and almost 20 gals of fuel, plus my gear in the gear locker, Miss
> P'fer was climbing 1300 to 1500 fpm. She made me proud of her. However, I
> think we were taking advantage of the nice east wind reflecting off some
Hey John,
Sounds like one of those fun trips that keeps a smile on your face for
several days. I didn't realize a 2 up loaded MkIII would climb so well.
Hmmmm, you got me thinking too. I'm not really seriously thinking of
getting into another airplane yet, but last night I read an old review
on the Avid and Kitfox. I've wondered how they stack up as competitors
to the Kolb MkIII. The review article was not kind to either the Avid
or the Kitfox, but it was perhaps written from a standpoint of someone
used to a hands-off XC cruise plane. Most of us I guess prefer the
lighter controls and a little yankin and bankin once in awhile.
Any/all comments on these three planes?
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
To all,
I got in a hour or so today after I changed out the half doors for the full
doors and enclosure. I felt like I was in a spam can again... almost. The
visibility was limited with some foggy scud clouds and the overcast was at
1.5K' - 2K'. The wind was not a big factor. I don't think I would have
flown in unfamiliar territory today, but I know that area very well so up I
went. I did a circuit at my home airport and then flew over to a lakeside
airport about 15 miles away to practice on their grass field. On the way
over, I checked the GPS against the ASI to see if changing the doors had
made any difference in the indicated readings... no difference, but still
way off actual... no matter. I have been careful to try to run my rotax at
least 5800 rpm (as suggested by J.Hauck). That "putts" me along at about
70 mph... depending on how trimmed out I am and how rough the air is.
Today, the air was relatively stable considering all the cloud activity...
no sunshine to cause convection currents I guess.
When I got back to my home airport I made my first 1/2 flaps landing. I
was pretty high on final and rather than just dump the altitude with the
flaps then retract before landing I just left the flaps deployed. I kind
of liked the extra drag and shorter float they provided. Now that I have
over 50 hours, I will begin to experiment with them some.
I checked the main wheels and they needed tightening... one side only 1/8
turn, the other 3/8 turn... to bring them back to "non-wobble" "not-tight"
snug. I also tightened the cable brakes a little. I needed a little more
stopping power. After all the talk about hinges, I oiled mine a little.
Talk about quick light ailerons now... sure, dream on...
I discovered a screw up on my part and I have no idea how long I have been
flying this way. The last time I loosened up the wing gap seal (probably
to take off the rear enclosure last spring) I failed to slip the hold down
hook into the tube that holds the center rear portion of the gap seal down.
I have been flying that way for awhile with no problem. I could see where
the hook had rubbed paint off the tube and where the gap seal had risen up
to touch the muffler (I have an aluminum plate there to protect the Lexan
from melting) and other engine parts, but the rear springs did their job as
well as the "hook" and held everything in place.
I gave the radio some more use today and I am very satisfied with the clear
reception from other aircraft. I feel I am transmitting pretty well now,
but so far have only tested once. Whatever... nobody was complaining
today. Enclosing the Kolb does reduce the decibels due to wind noise...
maybe even the engine a little and probably helps my transmissions.
Shielding the plug wires helped some I know... no more stacato noise rising
and falling with the rpms. Getting a good headset adaptor made all the
difference.
I am a happy camper...
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPHER DAVIS" <cdavis2(at)capecod.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
Am I top assume that your kits came in some giant mailing tube mine came
ina a wooden crate that i cut into three 16 inch by four foot shelves that
adorn my shop to this day . Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A Question already
>
>FIND THE "MOTHER" OF ALL MAIL TO SEND IN IT ! ! !
>
> I left one of mine beside the house for 2 years, and it turned into a
>huge cardboard coil spring. Big Lar.
>----------
>> From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: A Question already
>> Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 2:54 PM
>>
>>
>> Hey Kolbers
>> I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
>> checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
>>
>> The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF ALL
>> MAILING TUBES??
>> L. Ray Baker
>> Lake Butler, Fl
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPHER DAVIS" <cdavis2(at)capecod.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Time to say Goodbye |
Russell hey you can't leave ,as good as the RVs are nothing compares to
that kolb departure !!! fair winds chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Duffy <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 6:35 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Time to say Goodbye
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Richard came and took the SS away yesterday, so it's time to move on. I'd
like
>to thank everyone on the list for all the advice and entertainment I've
received
>over the last couple years. Even though the SS didn't turn out to be
exactly
>what I wanted, I don't consider the time and money to have been wasted.
>Overall, it was an enjoyable experience, and along the way, I met some
great
>people, and made some lasting friends.
>
>Later today, I'll be leaving the list, and also removing the SS pictures
from my
>web site. Will Uribe has volunteered (didn't say no fast enough ) to
post
>some of my pictures as long as there's any interest. I sent him a CD-ROM
last
>week, so he's got them all. Thanks Will.
>
>Take care, and I'll see you in the sky when the RV-8 is done.
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
>rv8(at)mindspring.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPHER DAVIS" <cdavis2(at)capecod.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FS-II AND BRS installation |
Dick I have a second chanz wing gap soft pack also and am wondering what are
youdoing about the run out on the rocket , shute pack ???? mine is two
years over the original repack time. chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Frcole(at)aol.com <Frcole(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FS-II AND BRS installation
>
>I have made several fiberglass fairings /gap seals on my FS2 covering a
second
>chance softback. I used laminated balsa for an exit area as long as the
pack
>opening and about 3/4 width. Make sure that the areas surrounding this
exit
>hole are smooth and snag free. It would be a real letdown to have a
>successful deployment of a shredded chute.
>Dick C
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
In a message dated 11/24/98 11:49:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu writes:
<< With all that, and an ultralight's ability to land
in little space means reliability isn't the top of the disadvantage
column as far as I'm concerned. Of course I may change my tune when mine
decides to go quiet again someday. >>
I agree 100%, and even minimize ithe impact of quietness more, and certainly
do not consider "engine quiet" as a curse. Actually I consider the engine as
an extra "assist" to the already glorious feature of flying !! It is a matter
of perspective...GeoR38 the ol "glider pilot"
note: I checked out my L/D recently and found that the best I could muster was
7.9:1 with the engine at idle and airspeed of 42 mph approx.To me flying an
ultralight is the same as a glider except with engine assist and I'm always
looking for a place to land, which everyone should always do even in GA
....unless they are flying by the engine.....boo!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Gentlemen, I would someday like to see a study done on 2-cycle vs 4-cycle
reliability. I think at this point in history, the 2-cycle would really
give some startling aviation statistics as far as trouble-free hours for
the amount of time flown. Carbon buildup will always be the downfall of
these engines, but now that we all know about Seafoam and other such
additives, these little hummers could really tip the scales on the fours.
I'm impressed with all the hours flown by you guys and others using the
2-cycle. The four cycles do fail too, even those expensive Lycomings,
because they have many more parts that go wrong. Maybe there is something
to be said for simplicity ....... it means reliability.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
>Definetly a factor, but 2-strokes can be kept pretty reliable. Main
thing >required is knowledge of what they want, and then the diligence to
treat them >right. 2-strokes are sorta dirty, loud, need oil added to
gas, and deliver >unwanted vibration to plane and pilot. With all that,
and an ultralight's ability to
>land in little space means reliability isn't the top of the disadvantage
>column as far as I'm concerned. Of course I may change my tune when
>mine decides to go quiet again someday.
>
>Ben Ransom
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
You can turn the 2-bladed prop horizontal when its stored and give you a
lot more clearance for height.
Ralph
blade stick up as high as
>a three blade, even if the two-blade was a few inches greater in
>diameter and the engine had to sit an inch or two higher?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Try near carbon-free Klotz synthetic snowmobile oil KL-216. You won't
need to change plugs for a year. Exceptionally clean!
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
>
>michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
><< Bill, I'm glad it wasn't something serious but did you clean the
>prop?
> Please forgive me but what kind of prop was it? I've never heard of
>carbon
> causing vibration enough to be able to tell it in flight. I learn
>something
> new in this sport everday. What a gas. Something to put in the book.
>>>
>
>Hi Michael,
>
>The prop is a Tennessee, wood, 66 X 30, clean it after each flight,
>looks like
>new. Had checked tracking and balance before removing engine and both
>were
>good. I usually cruise at 4800 to 5000 RPM with this prop (to keep up
>with my
>buddy who has a KXP 447 with 66 X 32 and turns 4500 most of the time).
> My CHT
>about 250 and EGT indicates 1100, sometimes lower. Plugs are a nice
>light
>chocolate brown color, so mixture appears to be not overly rich. But
>apparently something is making lots of carbon. I'm using Castrol
>Super
>snowmobile oil @ 50:1
>
>I know the reccomended prop for this engine is 66 X 28, but when I
>originally
>got my kit it had a 66 X 32 prop and I flew with that one 3 years.
>And I
>turned less RPM, in the 4200 to 4500 range The EGT then was really
>low, in
>the 900 to 1000 range. It didn't seem to make as much carbon, but it
>did make
>it and I decarbon every winter when its to cold to fly. I mostly use
>Amoco
>fuel, but have also used others on occasion. Guess I'll have to start
>experimenting to see if I can reduce the carbon buildup. Funny thing
>is, it
>only gets on the piston dome. The heads are clean!
>
>Bill Varnes
>Audubon NJ
>Original FireStar 377
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
>
>I'm beginning to sweat whether I can get a folded Mark III in my garage. II
>only have 83'' with the garage door up.
Don't fold the wings up, take them off. I take the wings completely off my
MKIII when ever I need to put it in the garage for maintainance, etc. You
are only pulling out one more bolt, it is no big deal. It adds maybe 5
minutes more when I put it back together.
I have made a couple racks that hang from the garage roof, and just put
the wings in them. Heres how they work: Get a 6' length of 2 1/2" or 3"
pvc and hang it from the ceiling in a level attitude about 10" below the
ceiling. This is the support for one end of the wing. Put a screw eye in a
rafter and tie a heavy cord to it. Get a 6' length of 2 1/2" or 3" pvc and
hang it from the cord at one end. Put another screw eye in the ceiling at
the other end of where the pvc will go when you swing it up level. Put a
loop of cord in the screweye.
When you carry the wing in, ease one end of the wing over the level
hanging tube. Then go to the other end of the wing, where the pvc is
hanging vertically, and swing it up level to support the wing, and slip the
loop over the end of the pvc tube. Done.
Caution! Stits paint does not resist abrasion for beans. Don't slide or
scrape the wing along the pvc, or it will rub through the paint.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Prop clearance |
Anybody out there know what the minimum recommended clearance is between the prop
&
the fuselage tube is? Thanks, ---Richard Swiderski
PS: How about it you 912 owners, what's the distance from the center of your prop
to the fuselage tube?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
. The four cycles do fail too, even those expensive Lycomings,
>because they have many more parts that go wrong. Maybe there is something
>to be said for simplicity ....... it means reliability.
>
>Ralph Burlingame
>Original FireStar, 447 powered
Well Kolbers:
Reliability is relative whether two or four stroke. If it is running it is
reliable. If it ain't it is unreliable. Most of the problems I have had
with either type eng was my making, or failure to check what someone else
did. Two stroke was sparkplug wire falling off inverted Cuyuna, paper fuel
filters, fouled spark plug. 912 only quit when I got a couple gals of water
with 10 gals of gas and I failed to drain fuel prior to takeoff. Course the
eng didn't stop on the ground, it waited til I was most vulnerable, a couple
hundred feet in the air in a hard climbing turn. Was able to get her turned
360 deg and land where I had just departed. Lake Texoma, Texas, last Jun,
got the first ten gal of fuel from new fuel tank, filter, pump, hose and
nozzle. Was lucky, didn't lose eng until about two hours eng time after
refueling. Fuel filter packed up completely with debris, shut off fuel
supply and eng twice. Lucked out and got it on the ground again
successfully. Only time the 912 everstopped in 985+ hours.
Had a 582 seize, never determined cause. This type failure bothers me more,
when it comes to reliability, than flying with the 4 stroke. Haven't heard
of any 4 stroke siezures. This 582 seizure gave me no warning signs, feel,
sound, or instrument readings, no clues that it was impending. I still fly
2 strokes and don't sit on the edge of the seat when I fly them. They have
given me good service and reliability.
One of the biggest factors to fly a 4 stroke is economy of fuel, oil,
sparkplugs, and teardowns. If one flies enough it will make up the
difference in purchase price with economy.
Yes, if it is mechanical it may break, no matter what it is.
Was taught in flight school to always have a forced landing area in site.
Still an important safety factor.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Question already |
Are you sure you're building a Kolb ?? Most of mine came in four 6"
cardboard tubes, and one box. And inside those cardboard tubes were an
awful lot of aluminum tubes. And inside the box was the best $200.00 I
ever spent - the prebuilt wing ribs. The fuselage ?? came in a 3 sided
plywood shelter (??), but that was months later. Big Lar.
----------
> From: CHRISTOPHER DAVIS <cdavis2(at)capecod.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A Question already
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:06 PM
>
>
> Am I top assume that your kits came in some giant mailing tube mine came
> ina a wooden crate that i cut into three 16 inch by four foot shelves
that
> adorn my shop to this day . Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> I got my first shipment on MK III, Kit 1, yesterday. Unpacked and
> >> checked all the nice shiny tubes. Everything looks OK.
> >>
> >> The Question: Now that it is empty WHAT DO I DO WITH THE "MOTHER" OF
ALL
> >> MAILING TUBES??
> >> L. Ray Baker
> >> Lake Butler, Fl
> >>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
As an interesting aside on 2-stroke reliability, Duane Cole's video, "VFR
tips for all pilots", has an interesting segment wherin the Ol' Master
Hisself advises that he always flys evaluating the terrain ahead so that
given the choice, he has a good flat field within gliding distance in case
his Expensive Genuwine Certified Aereoplane Engine quits. And he says he
normally alters his flight path right and left to give himself an out just
in case. Maybe that puts things in perspective?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Bruner" <brunerd(at)ulster.net> |
| Subject: | 2-stroke reliability |
-----Original Message-----
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2-stroke reliability
>
>In a message dated 11/24/98 11:49:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu writes:
>
><< With all that, and an ultralight's ability to land
> in little space means reliability isn't the top of the disadvantage
> column as far as I'm concerned. Of course I may change my tune when mine
> decides to go quiet again someday. >>
snip
>....unless they are flying by the engine.....boo!
That's easy for you flatlanders to say. Around here it's mostly granite
clouds and forests.
David (but I'll find out fer sher when I get up there) Bruner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
Hey Bill, Well, being you cleaned your prop but it's a wood prop, when did
it get wet or when was the last time a front came through your place or did
you leave the prop vertical the last time you flew before you noticed the
vibration? It's funny how one answer can lead to a whole lot more questions
ain't it? I don't know about the snowmobile oil your are using but I bet if
you were to switch to Pennsoil 2 cycle air cool oil and run it a little
harder it wouldn't have a carbon problem. I use to the same problem with a
different brand that works great in a lot of other engines but I always had
a carbon problem too. Then I called John Hunter at Lockwood to find out what
they used in their 582's. He told me that Rotax recommends Pennsoil (air
cooled) in all there aircraft engines regardless of whether it was air
cooled or liquid cooled because of the way they are run ( long periods of
sustained and steady RPMs and similiar temps). This was after my brother had
put some 800 hours on a Lazair with the 9.5 HP Rotax's using Pennsoil with
out a rebuild. Then there was my wingman Richard who has always used the oil
and has never had a problem. I wasn't satisfied with the evidence that they
gave me either. I had to try something different also. Guess what ? I was
decarboning every 100hours or less. I probably should have done it at 50
hours. I have 250 hours since the top end (this is where I started using
Pennsoil) and it is still going strong without a decarboning. I don't have
any of the other problems that goes along with carbon buildup either like
hard cranking from the rings being stuck on the pistons and smoot black
plugs, which I had to change a lot more often. Richard had even gotten to
the point that he would not even crank his plane around me until he was sure
I was cranked. I spent many times hand proping while he held my plane. We've
not had to hand prop but once and that was from a dead battery since I
switched. I am convienced it was the switch to Pennsoil. I also use the
injection system that is still set from the breakin.
How many hours do you fly and how often? Did you know that wood props
absorb water and that it can migrate to one end? I have a wood prop I use as
a spare. In case of emergency only. I know it is as balanced as I can get a
wood prop but compared to my IVO it can't hold a candle to the smoothness or
quietness.
The whole plane benefits from the lest amount of vibration that can be run.
That old wood prop liked to have beat me to death on our trip to Nulltown,
In. last year while the IVO was being repaired. After that trip I decided to
stay home if I couldn't have the IVO.
I know there are pros and cons to all of this and would like to hear from
the rest of you. Who knows there might be something out there you are using
with great results and we would all benefit from it. All for now. Thanks for
the return. Firehawk.
-----Original Message-----
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ?
>
>michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
><< Bill, I'm glad it wasn't something serious but did you clean the prop?
> Please forgive me but what kind of prop was it? I've never heard of carbon
> causing vibration enough to be able to tell it in flight. I learn
something
> new in this sport everday. What a gas. Something to put in the book. >>
>
>Hi Michael,
>
>The prop is a Tennessee, wood, 66 X 30, clean it after each flight, looks
like
>new. Had checked tracking and balance before removing engine and both were
>good. I usually cruise at 4800 to 5000 RPM with this prop (to keep up with
my
>buddy who has a KXP 447 with 66 X 32 and turns 4500 most of the time). My
CHT
>about 250 and EGT indicates 1100, sometimes lower. Plugs are a nice light
>chocolate brown color, so mixture appears to be not overly rich. But
>apparently something is making lots of carbon. I'm using Castrol Super
>snowmobile oil @ 50:1
>
>I know the reccomended prop for this engine is 66 X 28, but when I
originally
>got my kit it had a 66 X 32 prop and I flew with that one 3 years. And I
>turned less RPM, in the 4200 to 4500 range The EGT then was really low, in
>the 900 to 1000 range. It didn't seem to make as much carbon, but it did
make
>it and I decarbon every winter when its to cold to fly. I mostly use Amoco
>fuel, but have also used others on occasion. Guess I'll have to start
>experimenting to see if I can reduce the carbon buildup. Funny thing is,
it
>only gets on the piston dome. The heads are clean!
>
>Bill Varnes
>Audubon NJ
>Original FireStar 377
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <tehz(at)redrose.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
SNIP
>
>Was taught in flight school to always have a forced landing area in site.
>Still an important safety factor.
>
>john h
>
Good Post John,
One question, with all the cross country flying you do, how religious do
you follow this principle?
I'll admit I compromise at times.
Eugene
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
In a message dated 11/24/98 10:35:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Had a 582 seize, never determined cause. This type failure bothers me
more,
when it comes to reliability, than flying with the 4 stroke. >>
John: You get alot of respect on this list and you deserve it. But let
me offer the following. Again, it is NOT my intention to give you a hard
time. Several years back at lakeland I was doing my annual tour of the
certified rotax repair guys' tents. Every year I go talk to these guys and
ask them about the failure modes they have seen in different engines,
principally 582 and 503 because that's what I fly. My experience is that
engine rebuilders are a much more reliable source of good information about
failures than pilots themselves. Anyway, the guy from Greensky (I think)
offered to sell me a brand new freshly rebuilt 582 which he said had something
like 5 hours total time on it. I said gee, why was it rebuilt after such a
short time? The guy knew I was a Kolb pilot, and he sorta shuffled his feet
and said well, one of your better known kolb pilots seized it up. I said
jeez, how did he do that? The guy replied, well, this pilot thought that
Marvel mystery oil was good stuff, so he put a little in the gas. That worked
out good so he decided to put a little in the injection oil. Well what most
folk don't know is that marvel mystery oil is mostly solvent and perfume with
a little high grade lubricant. The pilot put in enough that it screwed up the
oil/fuel ratio and he seized the engine due to lack of lubrication Anyway, he
said that guy was you.
PLEASE DON"T ANYBODY SHOOT ME!!!! I'M JUST REPEATING WHAT I WAS TOLD.
However, even if this story isn't true (which I repeat it may not be)
there is a lesson to be learned from it. We are all tinkerers or we wouldn't
build our own planes. Every kolb owner has customized his plane to some
degree and as his own way of doing things. This is fine except that there are
limits to how far we can deviate from "doing it by the book." There is a
whole category of accident which happens in this category of plane which
doesn't happen in GA planes. Example: a guy a my field with an early firestar
found his plane to be nearly uncontrolable after he changed the frame tubing
around and moved the gas tank to "make it look cooler." When do you think the
last time was that happened with a c-182?
My point here, and I think I'm in agreement with John, is that when it
comes to operating Rotax engines most of our wounds are self inflicted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
>>Was taught in flight school to always have a forced landing area in site.
>>Still an important safety factor.
>>
>>john h
>>
>
>
>Good Post John,
>
>One question, with all the cross country flying you do, how religious do
>you follow this principle?
>I'll admit I compromise at times.
>
>Eugene
Hi Eugene:
I wish I could say I religiously follow the principle of having that forced
landing area in sight, but I get complacent and find my self in situations
where I would most definitely be the loser is I lost an eng. I have never
lost an eng when I expected it. It always comes as a complete surprise.
In the days of 2 stroke flying I practiced what I preached. I think the
fact that the 2 stroke quit more frequently made a better pilot out of me.
Also in those days my XC flying was done with mag compass and sectional.
That also made a better pilot out of me. Today with the GPS I get lazy
because it is so reliable. I try to keep up with my progress on the
sectional most of the time. Coming out of Kankakee, Illinois, to Joliet and
Oshkosh this year I lost the GPS. Shocked me right back into the real world
in a flash. I had to fly pilotage and dead reckoning to Joliet before the
GPS decided to cooperate. After I got settled down to busy, I realized I
had been missing out on some good flying. All I had to do was watch my
airspeed and altitude, read my sectional and follow my route on the ground,
as I cross checked the mag compass. I wasn't worried about ground speed,
ETA, or staying precisely on course. Given the choice though, I'll fly with
the GPS as primary nav aid. It saves time, gives me a lot of emergency
options, and makes my XCs safer, which translates to more longevity and the
opportunity to continue flying.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
><< Had a 582 seize, never determined cause. This type failure bothers me
>more,
> when it comes to reliability, than flying with the 4 stroke. >>
>
>
>failures than pilots themselves. Anyway, the guy from Greensky (I think)
>offered to sell me a brand new freshly rebuilt 582 which he said had
something
>like 5 hours total time on it. I said gee, why was it rebuilt after such a
>oil/fuel ratio and he seized the engine due to lack of lubrication Anyway,
he
>said that guy was you.
Hi Gang:
I think you are talking about Gerry Olenik, owner of the oldest Rotax
dealership in the US. I've done business with him for years, however, Gerry
didn't get involved with my 582, except to sell me pistons, rings, and
gaskets to rebuild it. I had over 200 hours on this eng, flying to
Lakeland, Homer's in Pa, and Oshkosh. This was a new eng I got from Homer
when I built the MKIII. Flew it the same way during its entire life, with
Marvel Mystery Oil since day/hour one. Seems to me, if it was the MMO that
caused the seizure, it would have happened early on. Put about 1200 hours
on my Cuyuna and 447s, all with that shot of MMO. The 582 is the first and
only 2 stroke I have ever seized, including a fist full of MX bikes,
outboard motors, and my weed eater.
I swapped the 582 for the 912, but I went south instead of north to do it.
I dealt with Ronnie Smith. I guess stories like this are part of the little
bit of notoriety I have gained over the years.
I think I mentioned in a recent post that I doubled up on MMO for my flight
to Quincy, Fl, and return. The 912 has ingested a lot of that stuff over
the hours, also my Dodge Cummins Diesel, Onan generator, and the 351W eng in
the old Searay. I swear by it. I wonder if it would work on my
arthritis??? hehehe
Did you guys know if you keep a four stroke eng bogged down, running below
the power band, that it will carbon up, get cranky, lazy, and weak? Don't
you know how much better the old buggy runs after you take it out on the
Interstate and blow that sucker out for an hour or so. Two stroke engs are
just like deem 4 stroke engs when it comes to getting clogged up with carbon
and gunk. I read on this list of making these poor little engs fly around
at 4500 to 5000 rpm their entire life. Then when they get gunked up with
carbon, cannot figure out what they are doing wrong to cause this terrible
condition. It is pretty simple to me, it is your left hand, the one you
have on the throttle. The rotax 2 stroke is not a tractor (farm) eng, it is
a high performance, high rpm eng that spends its entire life loaded/going up
hill all the time, even when it is idling. It has an expansion chamber
exhaust system that is designed to make the eng efficient, both power and
economy, somewhere after 5300/5400 rpm. I always found with the 2 stroke
(Cuyuna, 447, 582) that they all like to run 5800 rpm cruise. At this rpm
they are smoother and the internals will stay significantly cleaner.
OK, I can only talk, with experience, about 2 strokes up thru the early
90's, but I bet they haven't changed all that much since then.
Just my own thoughts and experiences friends. This ain't the gospel, but it
has worked for me, and it is still working. If it changes, I'll let you
know.
john h (Hauck's Holler, Alabama, still got those leaves and pinestraw to
rake up, ugh!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, David Bruner wrote:
> That's easy for you flatlanders to say. Around here it's mostly granite
> clouds and forests.
>
Good point David.
The typical terrain around my area makes it easy to fly a 2-stroke.
I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to fly most of the time over mostly
unlandable terrain.
Another little point about keeping an emergency landing field in site: One
of the things I find a little bit of a game is to keep track of the good
em fields that go behind you. When I give myself the quick pop quiz of
"alright! where is the best spot?!", i often find I select something
and a few seconds later realize a far better spot is right behind me
within easy glide. Makes me pay attention ...until the day dreaming
takes over again. Day dreaming requires higher altitude, and sometimes
it is easier just go up to get that bigger margin of comfort.
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
If you want/need to waste three "hole" hours tonight, punch up PBS to
get cringley's "IDEAS" of how the internet works. If he's no better at
this than he was at building a plane in 30 days, then we'd all better
turn our computers off. GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Beauford,
You did it again! Made me laugh out loud. I'm gonna have to stop reading your
posts at work.
John Jung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
>
>Another little point about keeping an emergency landing field in site: One
>of the things I find a little bit of a game is to keep track of the good
>em fields that go behind you. When I give myself the quick pop quiz of
>"alright! where is the best spot?!", i often find I select something
>and a few seconds later realize a far better spot is right behind me
>within easy glide. Makes me pay attention ...until the day dreaming
>takes over again. Day dreaming requires higher altitude, and sometimes
>it is easier just go up to get that bigger margin of comfort.
>
>Ben Ransom
Right on, Ben:
You can't beat altitude for that added bit of safety.
If I have to cross "bad stuff" I get altitude.
One point to remember if the fire goes out, choose a good forced landing
area and get set up to land in it. If you see a better one and you have a
lot of altitude and plenty of time (and this area you know you have made)
then change, but it is usually much better to select the site and land in
it. Bill Griffin, on this list will probably more than happy to tell you
what can happen if one is not decisive.
There ain't no go-a-rounds,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
Hey Ben. If you guys are Kolbers does that make me a Ferber?
Amen on the bigger picture Ben. I can relate from my on experience that an
engine out at altitude is a lot more forgiving than one at low altitude. The
options are much better and you have time to think, what the best coarse
of action is. That difference in time can make the difference in whether or
not you make it or break it. In my training course , I try to instill into
my students to always have a spot picked out within the cone that the
airplane always sits on in flight. The outer edge of the cone is at a 45*
angle down from the plane. It may be overkill for some pilots but this will
usually work on any airplane. I believe in the "WHEN NOT IF " saying about
engines, all of them. Just the other day a student pilot an his instructor
had to put down on a county road north of here because the Lycoming in the
C-150 quiet. Funny thing is I had to practice emergency approaches on that
same road when I went for my private.
I'm getting like John about this stuff. It's almost addictive. I wonder if
there is a support group for E-mail addicts on the "Internet". All for now.
Firehawk.
P.S. I definantly agree with the MMO that John uses. I use it from time to
time as a gas additive. Sure helps to keep thing clean along with Pennsoil.
But
I don't mix the two, something a Pennsoil Rep. said one time " It may or it
may not mix but do you want to take the chance?'' I think he was refering to
outside temperatures and the way the viscosity is different in the two oils
not readily mixing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Kolb-List: 2-stroke reliability
>
>On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, David Bruner wrote:
>> That's easy for you flatlanders to say. Around here it's mostly granite
>> clouds and forests.
>>
>Good point David.
>The typical terrain around my area makes it easy to fly a 2-stroke.
>I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to fly most of the time over mostly
>unlandable terrain.
>
>Another little point about keeping an emergency landing field in site: One
>of the things I find a little bit of a game is to keep track of the good
>em fields that go behind you. When I give myself the quick pop quiz of
>"alright! where is the best spot?!", i often find I select something
>and a few seconds later realize a far better spot is right behind me
>within easy glide. Makes me pay attention ...until the day dreaming
>takes over again. Day dreaming requires higher altitude, and sometimes
>it is easier just go up to get that bigger margin of comfort.
>
>Ben Ransom
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)acuityinc.com> |
| Subject: | Inspection holes in fabric |
I am just wrapping up the covering of my MKIII and was wondering where
I should install inspection rings to be cut out if needed. I was going
to put one where the drag strut meets the steel rib, but other than that
I cant think of where else I might need one. Any input would be
helpful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection holes in fabric |
In a message dated 11/25/98 3:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jason(at)acuityinc.com writes:
<< wondering where
I should install inspection rings to be cut out if needed. >>
I installed inspection rings in each bay between the ribs on the wing,
alternating them fore and aft, and put one near the strut attach and two on
the inboard flat edge of the wing. Its simple and easy to do and could save
you huge headaches in the future.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <joncroke(at)itol.com> |
Me too! I printed this last one and took it with the wife on a trip into
town (This is a long way from where I live).
I had her read it out loud to me. She could hardly believe it.
I have a separate folder on my email for saving these!
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: BEUFORD???
>
>Beauford,
> You did it again! Made me laugh out loud. I'm gonna have to stop
reading your
>posts at work.
>John Jung
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection holes in fabric |
On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 Cavuontop(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << wondering where
> I should install inspection rings to be cut out if needed. >>
>
>
> I installed inspection rings in each bay between the ribs on the wing,
> alternating them fore and aft, and put one near the strut attach and two on
> the inboard flat edge of the wing. Its simple and easy to do and could save
> you huge headaches in the future.
>
I take it that you installed the rings but not the holes & covers?
If holes & covers, that seems like a lot to me. On the other hand,
I think there should be *some* holes and covers to be able to look inside.
I installed 2 rings/holes/covers on each wing:
- 1 on the bottom of each wing where the lift+drag struts join the
main spar -- a key spot to be able to get a visual on at annual.
I just love to look at that home-made AL box where they join cuz
it is so impressive how you can get so much strength out of thin
AL (!). Also, I could get a wrench on top of the big spar bolt
if I needed to (or somebody with small hands could).
- 1 on each wing root just behind the main spar to peek in on the
drag strut and it's steel braces. For the wing root, you could
cut it and patch it annually but rings seem more the right way
to do it.
Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection holes in fabric |
In a message dated 11/25/98 5:06:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu writes:
<< I take it that you installed the rings but not the holes & covers? >>
I just installed the rings. If I need to I will I will cut them open and put
in a cover. Perhaps at my first annual I will cut open the hole by the lift
strut to check. The big benefit to the rings is that if you ding your wing
you can cut open a nearby hole and see how bad the damage is without having to
take all the cover off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
>Don't fold the wings up, take them off. I take the wings completely off my
>MKIII when ever I need to put it in the garage for maintainance, etc. You
>are only pulling out one more bolt, it is no big deal. It adds maybe 5
>minutes more when I put it back together.
>.
>
>.
Yes but why? I have never pulled the wings for storage and have never
found a reason to pull them off except when I did a bit of welding to the
frame. Every thing fits so neat on the Kolb removing the wings adds another
potential for damage. Even removing the wings the height will remain the same.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
<< ....unless they are flying by the engine.....boo!
That's easy for you flatlanders to say. Around here it's mostly granite
clouds and forests.
David (but I'll find out fer sher when I get up there) Bruner
>>
David, what I meant by "flying by the engine" was disregarding some common
sense dealings with the hard spots, namely the ground, or other hard barriers.
For instance, when you fly near the "granite" (mountain, hill) it would be
adviseable to stay on the windward side to take advantage of the prevailing
air currents for lift, just in case the engine did quit.
Instead of coming in for a landing at a constant 1.3 degree
declination like a GA plane might at a big airport, stay high enough to always
be able to pick an alternate landing point , until you finally clear the final
impediment or barrier such as telephone lines before "aiming at the ground" or
slipping to the ground. Yes you will land hotter and longer but always
safer.(unless of couse you blast yourself into the woods at the other end of
the too short runway!!) I think I hate that when that happens.
Know the wind strength and direction at all times to be able to
estimate how far you can glide if the engine quits now....no, I mean ....now.
My L/D is 7.9:1 on an engine idle ( therefore it is probably better than that
when the prop stops completely), therefore I can go almost 8 miles on a dead
day if I'm up one mile, and that is like money in the bank for engine failure.
..................GeoR38, the ol glider pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
Hi Gang: I can't stand it any more ! ! ! I know this is a subject
jump, but when I read that comment by David Bruner, I instantly flashed to
an old " Far Side " cartoon. Scene is an airliner cockpit flying through
the clouds, looking past the pilots, and out the windshield at a mountain
goat standing in the clouds. The pilot is saying to co-pilot, " saaay,
wait a minute." You KNOW what's going to happen next. I would really love
to know where to find that goofy thing. I've looked through quite a few of
his collections, and haven't hit it yet. Big Lar.
----------
>
>
> That's easy for you flatlanders to say. Around here it's mostly granite
> clouds and forests.
>
> David (but I'll find out fer sher when I get up there) Bruner
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
>
>>Don't fold the wings up, take them off. I take the wings completely off my
>>MKIII when ever I need to put it in the garage for maintainance, etc. You
>>are only pulling out one more bolt, it is no big deal. It adds maybe 5
>>minutes more when I put it back together.
>>.
>>
>>.
>
> Yes but why? I have never pulled the wings for storage and have never
>found a reason to pull them off except when I did a bit of welding to the
>frame. Every thing fits so neat on the Kolb removing the wings adds another
>potential for damage. Even removing the wings the height will remain the
same.
>
>Woody
>
> Potential for damage is the key word. Met a guy that trailered his Kolb
all over the place, and he said if he had to do it over again, he would
have made his trailer so that the wings hung on the sidewalls. Seems that
the leading edges are so close to the ground when it is folded, that they
can readily drag when you go over a hump, or where a ramp meets the
trailer. His leading edges were kinda beat up.
I am glad I did not provide for my wings to fold, so that I am not
tempted. Besides, empty weight is 513, with 15 gallons of fuel, it is over
600 pounds. Trying to push that across the back yard to the garage would
wipe the Old Poops out. It is heavy enough with the wings off.
Besides, the only time I put it in the garage is to do maintainance. And
the wings would be in the way.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth E. Farrow" <asca(at)knix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2-stroke reliability |
WISHING all of you delightful friends the very nicest Thanksgiving ever. Be
well and content with your loved ones on this day and always--ken and judi
in Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
One tradition in my family is, as we sit down at the feast, for each person to
have the opportunity to say what they have this year for which they are
especially thankful. For me, one of the most wonderful gifts this year is
God's gift of flight, and perhaps the chance to appreciate the world in a way
in which very few folks will ever be able to experience.
Blessings to all, and best wishes for safe flying in the "Kolbische Flugzeug."
Paige Straley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob berrie <rberrie(at)snet.net> |
Duncan
I have a MK111 with rotax 912, ivo 3 blade groung adj
prop installed. The height with one blade centered stright down is 81
inches. Wings when folded are app same height as top of cage. Hope
this helps.
Bob
Mk111 95% N350RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Far Side Cartoon |
BIG Lar
The cartoon is in "Beyond The Far Side," fourth printing (mine) Nov '83,
Lib Congress 83-71765.
Co-pilot says to Pilot: "Sat...What's a mountain goat doing way up here
in a cloud bank?"
I'd send you, via FailMail, a cy if you want. Need FM address. Grey
Baron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I don't know what I was thinking about when I said Rut's friend was named
Deana, it's not.That is my daughters husbands old girlfriend's name- hummm.
Rut's girlfriend's name is Jeanie. I hope I didn't call her Deana at the
BBQ and if I did I appolagize for being brain dead. Rut, you will pass this
along for me, please "grovel- grovel''.Gee one would think that with 12
brothers and sisters and about 85 nephews and neices I could remember names.
Now lets see, who am I suppose to be sending this to? Oh yea Kolb/list
Thanks FIREHAWK
-----Original Message-----
From: Tusky(at)aol.com <Tusky(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 7:48 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Thanksgiving
>
>One tradition in my family is, as we sit down at the feast, for each person
to
>have the opportunity to say what they have this year for which they are
>especially thankful. For me, one of the most wonderful gifts this year is
>God's gift of flight, and perhaps the chance to appreciate the world in a
way
>in which very few folks will ever be able to experience.
>
>Blessings to all, and best wishes for safe flying in the "Kolbische
Flugzeug."
>
>Paige Straley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Hey Bill, Well, being you cleaned your prop but it's a wood prop, when did
it get wet or when was the last time a front came through your place or did
you leave the prop vertical the last time you flew before you noticed the
vibration? It's funny how one answer can lead to a whole lot more questions
ain't it? >>
Hi Michael,
I know what you mean about moisture in the prop. I fold the wings for storage
after each flight and the prop is always placed horizontal, so it shouldn't
get out of balance from that. Besides, balance was one of the first things I
checked. I just might take you up on the suggestion of using Pennzoil. I had
originally started using that oil, then the Castrol became easier to get
locally, and its a good oil, but maybe it is part of my problem. Trouble is,
if I change too many things, I'll never know for sure which made the
difference, if any change at all. And it takes at least 40 maybe 50 hours
before a decarbon is needed. I had about 60 when I noticed the problem.
<>
Well I'm sort of retired, so I fly about twice a week, depending on the
weather. First year, 1994 I only flew 30 hrs. Since then averaging about 70
hrs per year, and now have 305 hrs. on it. I'd even fly more often, but I
have to drive 35 miles to the airport. That takes 1 hr each way due to
traffic and back roads. Then it takes me 1/2 hr to set up, fuel up ,etc.
Then another 1/2 to tear down and clean up, etc, So I usually don't go unless
I can fly at least one hour or longer. Been on several cross country trips of
1-1/2 hrs. each way.
Thanks for your input FIREHAWK.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
| Subject: | 2-stroke reliability |
On this list, I have been reading a lot about cold seizures, hot
seizures and the eventual recognition for the inevitability of failure
with our 2-stroker's.
I'll preface what I wish to ask with: In this area, the east kern
portion of the upper desert of southern california, there has been no
known seizures. I know of one person with a firestar & 447, who waited
until he had 632 hours on the engine before he broke it down. He only
found some minor scratches in the aft piston area.
My question is this: What oil are you using in your mixture's. I
would like to know if there are any seizures using the av-2 oil?
Thank you
Richard of Boron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel rod replacement |
When I built my Original Firestar I wasn't aware of the aluminum replacement
for the fiberglass tailwheel rod. However, now that I am flying it I see
that the replacement is needed because the tailwheel flexes sideways when
turning.
My question to the group is: What is the best way to remove the epoxied-in
fiberglass rod? Naturally, I don't want to damage the lower fin in doing
so. The use of heat is out of the question so I assume I'll have to cut off
the rod near the lower fin and drill a pilot hole as close to center as I
can. Then follow that with progressively larger drills. Is there some
other way?
Thanks,
Ron Carroll
Original Firestar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Sudden Engine Noise - better take a closer look |
Here's a little thing that happen to one of the guys on our field as
described by my partner.
They had a fly in the area on one of the most beautiful days I've seen in a
long time. Crisp with radiant blue sky, little wind and I had to leave on
a flight that afternoon so couldn't attend. My partner flew our FireFly in
and had a great day.
Gene, one of our buddies on the field missed out on the fly in. Seems he
suddenly developed noise in his engine (a 447). Later found
out that one of the brand new spark plugs had broken off some porcelain near
the electrode. Put a new plug in and the noise went away for a little
while. He ended up pulling the cylinder and found the broken hunk of
porcelain in the cylinder. It had beaten up the piston top, which he
smoothed with a dremel tool. He's ready now to test fly it.
Talk about luck.
Jerry Bidle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sudden Engine Noise - better take a closer look |
-->
>Gene, one of our buddies on the field missed out on the fly in. Seems he
>suddenly developed noise in his engine (a 447). Later found
>out that one of the brand new spark plugs had broken off some porcelain
near
>the electrode. Put a new plug in and the noise went away for a little
>while. He ended up pulling the cylinder and found the broken hunk of
>porcelain in the cylinder. It had beaten up the piston top, which he
>smoothed with a dremel tool. He's ready now to test fly it.
>
>Talk about luck.
>
>Jerry Bidle
>
Happy Thanksgiving Kolbers:
Jerry, I don't really know how lucky your buddy is. If a piece of porcelain
beat up the top of the piston, it had to have something to beat on, and that
would be primarily the cylinder head, and possibly the top ring.
Depending on the severity of the damage to the top of the piston, I might
have considered replacing it with a new one. Dremel tool equates to
grinding and grinding equates to loss of mass and weight. Might prove to be
a problem.
I used to balance my pistons, rings, wrist pins and bearings. There was
always enough difference in their weights to make a difference in the
vibration level of the 447 and 582. Just food for thought.
john h (full of smoked turkey in Hauck's Holler, Alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
Hey Bill, Sounds like you got it under control. If you call the Pennzoil
people they will put you in touch with some one in your area.
70 hours a year, huh. I can see you are a dedicated flyer when you have to
drive all that way and then set it up.I must be one of the few that is only
5 minutes from my plane. I use to live 10 minutes but that was to far and it
took too much time to get to the airport. So I built me another house closer
and then sold the other one. Now I,m thinking about building a house on a
new runway north of here where I can just walk out the back door and get in
the plane and go. I dream a lot too.
Bill, I have a wood prop that I use as a spare and another that I have on
my Fisher 202. I have never been able to balance them satisfactorily. Would
you mind telling me how you do that ? I bet there are a lot out there that
would like to know. I've used prop balancers and they don't seem to give me
the balance I am looking for. There is always this low frequency vibration
that can only come from the prop. I guess I'm spoiled by the smoothness of
the IVO.
I was out flying around this afternoon just checking that bolt I torqued
for maintenance, I am just amazed sometimes how good it feels to be able to
fly. It was so smooth and no one else around. John H. mention that he uses
Marvel mystery oil in his mechanical things, I do too, mostly the Gas add
treatment. My Dad used it in all his machines too, way back in the 40's and
50's when we used to run a sawmill in Southeast Georgia. I was only 4 or 5
years old when I was introduced to it. We had our share of break downs but
they weren't usually from the engines we ran. I remember when my brothers
bought the old sawmill from Dad they used the same old Red Seal power unit
flat head 6 cylinder, gas ) that ran the mill originally. That was some 20
years later. After a little cleaning and adjusting the old thing could be
hand cranked in one throw. It came with a built in crank handle just like
the old Model As. I remember being so small that I could hang on to the
crank and it would only move as the compression leaked down. Man to me that
was a long time ago.
The old place we grow up is a car lot and a mall now. I used to fly my U-
control plane where the mall parking lot is.
Listen to me rattle on. We were talking about planes. I hope that one day
we can all met from time to time. It can happen. So many stories to tell and
so little time to tell them. Later FIREHAWK
PS Bill is the Castrol you use a TCW-3 or a TC oil?
-----Original Message-----
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ?
>
>michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
>
><< Hey Bill, Well, being you cleaned your prop but it's a wood prop, when
did
> it get wet or when was the last time a front came through your place or
did
> you leave the prop vertical the last time you flew before you noticed the
> vibration? It's funny how one answer can lead to a whole lot more
questions
> ain't it? >>
>
>Hi Michael,
>
>I know what you mean about moisture in the prop. I fold the wings for
storage
>after each flight and the prop is always placed horizontal, so it shouldn't
>get out of balance from that. Besides, balance was one of the first things
I
>checked. I just might take you up on the suggestion of using Pennzoil. I
had
>originally started using that oil, then the Castrol became easier to get
>locally, and its a good oil, but maybe it is part of my problem. Trouble
is,
>if I change too many things, I'll never know for sure which made the
>difference, if any change at all. And it takes at least 40 maybe 50 hours
>before a decarbon is needed. I had about 60 when I noticed the problem.
>
><>
>
>Well I'm sort of retired, so I fly about twice a week, depending on the
>weather. First year, 1994 I only flew 30 hrs. Since then averaging about
70
>hrs per year, and now have 305 hrs. on it. I'd even fly more often, but I
>have to drive 35 miles to the airport. That takes 1 hr each way due to
>traffic and back roads. Then it takes me 1/2 hr to set up, fuel up ,etc.
>Then another 1/2 to tear down and clean up, etc, So I usually don't go
unless
>I can fly at least one hour or longer. Been on several cross country trips
of
>1-1/2 hrs. each way.
>
>Thanks for your input FIREHAWK.
>
>Bill Varnes
>Audubon NJ
>Original FireStar 377
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sudden Engine Noise - better take a closer look |
Hey Jerry , My brother had a relief valve that use to come on the little
185-9.5 HP Rotax, break off and go through the top end. It did the same
thing by imprinting itself all over the piston top and the bottom of the
head. He did the same thing that Gene did. It ran another 400 hours before
he finally stopped flying for medical problems. He has the little engine
that could. FIREHAWK
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 2:30 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Sudden Engine Noise - better take a closer look
>
>Here's a little thing that happen to one of the guys on our field as
>described by my partner.
>
>They had a fly in the area on one of the most beautiful days I've seen in a
>long time. Crisp with radiant blue sky, little wind and I had to leave on
>a flight that afternoon so couldn't attend. My partner flew our FireFly in
>and had a great day.
>
>Gene, one of our buddies on the field missed out on the fly in. Seems he
>suddenly developed noise in his engine (a 447). Later found
>out that one of the brand new spark plugs had broken off some porcelain
near
>the electrode. Put a new plug in and the noise went away for a little
>while. He ended up pulling the cylinder and found the broken hunk of
>porcelain in the cylinder. It had beaten up the piston top, which he
>smoothed with a dremel tool. He's ready now to test fly it.
>
>Talk about luck.
>
>Jerry Bidle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
Hey Ron, The last time I checked a steel drill still cuts epoxy better
than steel. So go for the steel drill deal. Should take it right out without
harming the tube. FIREHAWK.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Carroll <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 12:17 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Tailwheel rod replacement
>
>When I built my Original Firestar I wasn't aware of the aluminum
replacement
>for the fiberglass tailwheel rod. However, now that I am flying it I see
>that the replacement is needed because the tailwheel flexes sideways when
>turning.
>
>My question to the group is: What is the best way to remove the epoxied-in
>fiberglass rod? Naturally, I don't want to damage the lower fin in doing
>so. The use of heat is out of the question so I assume I'll have to cut
off
>the rod near the lower fin and drill a pilot hole as close to center as I
>can. Then follow that with progressively larger drills. Is there some
>other way?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ron Carroll
>Original Firestar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank, Christie & Frank Hodson" <fchodson(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Torque For Engine Mounts... |
Happy Thanksgiving everyone...
I happily spent it with my family in Maine...skipped the football this year
to help my dad install a 503 Rotax on his FireStar II project (he's dreaming
that he will fly it before snow arrives!! It would be a safer bet to put
the 503 into his snowmobile!!) We ran into a few questions...There is no
suggestion on what to torque the nuts to on the aluminum plate that attaches
to the crankcase, or the bolts/nuts that go through the Lord Mounts. I read
all pertinent material a thousand times and I couldn't find any #'s...So has
everyone else just tightened it all up until you feel like it will stay
connected in flight, or is there some magical ft/lb # that we should be
aiming for?
I'm a silent reader in this email list...but all of your tips/helps and
"banter" are all appreciated.
Franklin E. Hodson III
fchodson@bigfoot.com | http://www.bigfoot.com/~fchodson
OR
http://members.tripod.com/fchodson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
For torque on regular nuts and bolts (steel on steel) you can look in a good
repair manual (such as chiltons, or for you engineers out there, "Machinery
Handbook") and it will have recommended torque tables. Remember, a bolt and
nut is actually a clamping device, so the torque is specified to obtain the
maximum practical clamping force without straining the bolt shaft (or threads)
beyond the yield point of the particular alloy. For accurate work, oil
threads before torqueing.
Paige Straley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Ron,
I replaced mine years ago by taking a propane torch and very carefully
heating it up and then using a vise grips to twist it and pull it out. My
lower fin did get burned a little, so I had to repatch and repaint it but
it will come out with some heat. BTW, I've been flying off the
replacement fiberglass rod for about 10 years.
Ralph
writes:
>
>
>When I built my Original Firestar I wasn't aware of the aluminum
>replacement
>for the fiberglass tailwheel rod. However, now that I am flying it I
>see
>that the replacement is needed because the tailwheel flexes sideways
>when
>turning.
>
>My question to the group is: What is the best way to remove the
>epoxied-in
>fiberglass rod? Naturally, I don't want to damage the lower fin in
>doing
>so. The use of heat is out of the question so I assume I'll have to
>cut off
>the rod near the lower fin and drill a pilot hole as close to center
>as I
>can. Then follow that with progressively larger drills. Is there
>some
>other way?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ron Carroll
>Original Firestar
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas L. King" <kingdome(at)tcac.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
>
>For accurate work, oil
>threads before torqueing.
>
>Paige Straley
>
You shouldn't oil threads before torqueing. Every manual or how to book
I've seen specifies to torque with dry clean threads.
Also--two days ago I had to heli-coil a cylinder tie down stud on an O-200
that had apparently been torqued while oily or over torqued. The original
threads just pulled out of the case.
Tom King
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Far Side Cartoon |
Talk about a fast response ! ! ! They told me you were a pretty fine
feller, now I see it's true. Thank you very much. I think the cartoon is
hilarious. Big Lar.
Larry Bourne
7 Harrison
Cathedral City, CA.,
92234
760-324-7646
----------
> From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re:Far Side Cartoon
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 8:35 AM
>
>
> BIG Lar
>
> The cartoon is in "Beyond The Far Side," fourth printing (mine) Nov '83,
> Lib Congress 83-71765.
>
> Co-pilot says to Pilot: "Sat...What's a mountain goat doing way up here
> in a cloud bank?"
>
> I'd send you, via FailMail, a cy if you want. Need FM address. Grey
> Baron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
Tom, I hate to get argumentive, but I've built quite a few engines, and
have always read to " Make sure threads are clean and lightly oiled.
Torque to spec with a quality torque wrench." Never, ever had any
problems. A small thing to try is to thoroughly clean a head, block, and
bolts. Torque one down dry, and focus on how it feels as the pressure
comes on. The next one, LIGHTLY oil it with a light oil such as zoom
spout, which is a 10 wt non-detergent turbine oil, or 3 in 1. NOT WD-40 !
! ! Torque it down. You can literally feel the difference. Try it,
you'll like it. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Thomas L. King <kingdome(at)tcac.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Torque For Engine Mounts...
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 8:54 PM
>
>
> >
> >For accurate work, oil
> >threads before torqueing.
> >
> >Paige Straley
> >
>
> You shouldn't oil threads before torqueing. Every manual or how to book
> I've seen specifies to torque with dry clean threads.
>
> Also--two days ago I had to heli-coil a cylinder tie down stud on an
O-200
> that had apparently been torqued while oily or over torqued. The
original
> threads just pulled out of the case.
>
> Tom King
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Group: I forgot to say that oiling threads works well, but the last
few engines I've built, I've used Bostick Anti-seize lubricant - lightly.
Torques down smoothly and years later comes loose without binding. Works
especially well on exhaust manifold bolts. Haven't had any problems I can
think of with coming loose prematurely. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi All: For all this time I've been reading engine diagnosis notes with
some interest. Most of my experience has been with 4 stroke engines, but
for 7 years in Idaho I felled timber with a Stihl 051 AV chain saw. I
realize it's not a Rotax, but it is ( was ) a 2 stroke. You may believe me
when I say we ran those motors VERY hard. No danger of crashing, just grab
the spare saw and fix the 1st one that night. What I remember tallies for
the most part with what I read here. One way or another, seems like we
spent an awful lot of time fiddling with those little Bing carburetors. (
Bing I think, made in Ireland at any rate ) Probably the second most
severe problem is one I don't recall seeing much of here. That is a main
seal sucking air, especially the drive side. As it started, the symptoms
could drive you crazy, very hard to pin-point. As it worsened, it would
get more serious. On a large tree, 4or 5 or more feet thick, which makes
for a long, hard pull, it could suck enough air to lean it out, overheat
and seize the piston. Also seems like that was about the only time we did
seize up. Is this a problem on Rotaxs ?? Or have they figured a way
around it ?? Just noodling. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
I agree with Larry Biglar about his suggested experiment--try the difference
with an oiled thread and a non-oiled thread. One problem is that you can't
really de-oil metal without washing it very thoroughly. For the non-oiled
test, wash with really hot water and a strong detergent ("Dawn" brand picks up
mineral oils best, in my experience), dry with a paper towel and follow with
an acetone rinse. There is a difference, and you can measure it!
Agree also with Biglar on anti-sieze, especially in high temperature
connections where the oil will cook off, and also on steel bolts threading
into aluminum.
Paige Straley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com> |
"chuck waller"
| Subject: | Fw: Tis the season, take a good belt ! |
-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel Cox <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Hempy) ; EPML46A(at)prodigy.com
; ULPilot(at)navix.net ; USUAHQ(at)aol.com
; apsman(at)netheaven.com ;
bencole(at)mindspring.com ; capella1(at)flash.net
; dhempy(at)1weather.com ;
dvsev(at)aol.com ; knafsngr(at)micron.net ;
lclem(at)erols.com ; lightflyer(at)email.msn.com
; lindy(at)snowhill.com; ;
fly-ul ; Ultralight Flying Magazine
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:18 PM
Subject: Tis the season, take a good belt !
> Tis the Season, Take a Good Belt!
> One of the things that I notice at fly-ins is that many ultralights do
>not have shoulder
>harnesses installed and some that do have them installed improperly. Even
>in the slower vehicles, properly installed and used seat belt / shoulder
>harnesses will significantly reduce the risk of injury. Should an injury
>occur, they might make the difference between survivability and death.
>Studies have shown that 80 % of the people who have survived light airplane
>crashes in which seatbelts were the only restraints used, sustained head
>injuries. Lets start with the seat belt. They should be attached to the
>strongest point of the airframe as possible. Never attach them to the seat
>frame as it will make them less effective. Ideally the seat belt should be
>attached to the airframe so that the belt contacts the pilots body at a 45
>degree angle as this offers maximum protection. If the belt rides up on
the
>stomach, severe internal injuries could result in a hard impact. If the
>belts are attached to far forward where the belts lie across the legs it
>will allow the body to slide forward in a crash and does not offer any
>protection from the upper body being whiplashed forward into the
>instrument panel.
> One of the most important items, and one of the most common mistakes
is
>the
>mounting of the shoulder belts. I have seen many installations where the
>shoulder belts are anchored right behind the seat, allowing the belt to
form
>an inverted U over the pilots shoulders. When involved in a frontal
>impact, the upper body moves forward which causes the shoulder belt to
>tighten and excerpt a downward force on the body of the pilot. This force
>acts to compress the spine. This force may be enough to cause disk damage,
>and if hard enough it can shatter vertebras. I believe this is one of the
>reasons that back injuries are so prevalent in ultralight crashes.
Shoulder
>belt attachment points should be at or above the level of the top of the
>shoulder. The attachment points should be aft off the seat also. These
two
>things prevents the compression force from being applied to the spine.
> Automakers spend a lot of money doing crash tests with dummies. They
>want the
>safest system of seat belts that the buying public will accept. The next
>time you get in
>your car look at the belts. The seat belt is attached to the floorboard so
>that it has a 45 degree angle to the seat and the shoulder belt attaches
>above shoulder level. Its not because it was a convenience spot, it is to
>avoid compression of the spine in a crash.
> But even after a good installment some care is needed. The sun is
>pretty rough on the belt material and stitching. Replacement of your seat
>and shoulder belts is
>recommended when (1) frayed belt edges have become apparent (2) the
>stitching is
>deteriorating (3) the buckle becomes worn (4) the belts show any other
signs
>of
>deterioration.
>
>Sam Cox
>
> The Shoulder Harness Pledge
> I _______________ hereby promise to install and wear shoulder harness
and
>safety belts in my aircraft to protect myself, passengers, and the good
name
>of the ultralight community. Air Force test have proven that a 20 -G
>harness will eliminate 90 % of aircraft accident injuries.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>This message brought to you by the UL-Reps mailing list.
>This post is in no way representative of or affiliated with
>the United States Ultralight Association.
>For more info, please write to
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
writes:
<< What is the best way to remove the epoxied-in fiberglass rod? >>
Hi Ron,
My buddy replaced his fiberglass rod and it was kinda hard to drill it out,
but we were finally successful. Used one of those flat bladed type of wood
bits. Had to resharpen it several times. First we cut off the fiberglass rod
flush with the steel tube. Then we started a pilot hole with a regular 1/8"
drill bit and followed up with the flat bladed one. I think it was 3/4" size,
just fit into the steel tube which kept it centered. Lots of picky, itchy
dust. Probably should have worn a mask.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
writes:
<< Would you mind telling me how you do that ? I bet there are a lot out
there that
would like to know. I've used prop balancers and they don't seem to give me
the balance I am looking for. There is always this low frequency vibration
that can only come from the prop. I guess I'm spoiled by the smoothness of
the IVO. >>
Michael,
I just use a static balancer of my own design. An 8" pc. of steel tubing, 1"
in dia., fits into the hole in the prop. Then I took a 3/4" block of wood, 6"
long X 3" wide, and fastened two pcs. of sheet metal, 6" long X 4" high, to
the 3/4" edge, one on each side. The sheet metal edges have to be absolutely
parallel with each other. I fasten the wood block to my work bench, then
level both edges of the metal. Have to use small wood shims sometimes to get
it perfect. Then I place the prop, with the tubing, on the sheet metal edges.
The tubing allows the prop to rotate from the horizontal position, with the
heavy side going down. Never needed to adjust the balance yet, but if so I
would use a clear spray on coating of some sort. Admittedly this is not high
tech, but it gets it pretty close.
<>
Doesn't mention either on the container, just says "Exceeds SAE
Miscibility/Fluidity Grade 3.
Referring to what John Hauck said recently, I'm thinking now that what I need
to do is change the prop (from 66 X 30) to the recommended 66 X 28, so the
engine can turn up and breathe easier and then run the piss out of it.
Bill (wish I could afford an IVO prop) Varnes <--There, I did it, put in some
funny words.
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
<< There is no suggestion on what to torque the nuts to on the aluminum plate
that attaches to the crankcase, or the bolts/nuts that go through the Lord
Mounts. I read
all pertinent material a thousand times and I couldn't find any #'s...So has
everyone else just tightened it all up until you feel like it will stay
connected in flight, or is there some magical ft/lb # that we should be aiming
for? >>
Frank,
I checked my book and plans also and no mention of a torque number for the
nuts to aluminum plate. But I believe it's a 10 mm nut and looking in the CPS
catalog I see other nuts of similar size using 335 inch lbs. Be sure to use
locktite or safety wire them. I just made mine tight, using the blue locktite
and they have never come loose. The bolts that go through the lord mounts are
the self locking type, but you can use locktite on them too if you want to.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
Ron,
I drilled out the fiberglass rod by starting with a pilot hole and
then larger drills up to 3/4". It took a about an hour and was not
difficult at all.
John Jung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Far Side Cartoon |
Large Lar, cy of cartoon enroute, as we used to say when flying IFR.
After I sent the caption, I noted I failed to spell "Say" correctly.
Onlt misteak made rexently GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
| From: | blborg(at)juno.com (Bruce l Borg) |
I have replaced several by using a smaller, ( 1/4 "), bit and drill
multiple holes around the outer edge just inside the steel tube and 1 in
the center if room. the post kind of falls apart and can be worked out.
Bruce Borg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wally Hofmann" <whofmann(at)eudoramail.com> |
| Subject: | FF wing rigging question |
I'm in the process of mating the wings to the cage on a FireFly. I've got the
rear universal join assembled and the wings mounted on modified saw horses. I've
got the wing drag strut end fitting protruding as per the plans (3/4 ").
My questions deals with the main spar attach point where the clevis pin will be
installed. There are 2 metal support tabs on the cage and one on the wing.
It appears that the wing tab is not going to be centered between the 2 cage tabs.
Ballpark, there is a 1/4 inch gap in front and a 1/2 inch gap on the back.
Should the wing tab be centered?
Will there be problems with tabs hitting while folding the wings?
Thanks.
---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wally Hofmann
Wickenburg, Arizona
520-684-3686
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FF wing rigging question |
Wally, when I built my MKIII the problem I had was that I didn't have the
drag strut end fitting out far enough and when I drilled the holes for the
clevis pin they were really close to the end of the tabs, I had to weld two
new tabs so that there was more material on both sides of the holes, as for
as being centered mine aren't and I really don't think they will be, I have
56 hours on it and the wings haven't fallen off yet.
Frank
PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question concerning the
small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice since I
got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked the oil
tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was wondering if
this is normal.
Frank again
-----Original Message-----
From: Wally Hofmann <whofmann(at)eudoramail.com>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 12:15 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: FF wing rigging question
>
>I'm in the process of mating the wings to the cage on a FireFly. I've got
the rear universal join assembled and the wings mounted on modified saw
horses. I've got the wing drag strut end fitting protruding as per the
plans (3/4 ").
>
>My questions deals with the main spar attach point where the clevis pin
will be installed. There are 2 metal support tabs on the cage and one on
the wing. It appears that the wing tab is not going to be centered between
the 2 cage tabs. Ballpark, there is a 1/4 inch gap in front and a 1/2 inch
gap on the back.
>
>Should the wing tab be centered?
>
>Will there be problems with tabs hitting while folding the wings?
>
>Thanks.
>---
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Wally Hofmann
>Wickenburg, Arizona
>520-684-3686
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas L. King" <kingdome(at)tcac.net> |
Hi Group
Big Lar is quite right that torque should be applied per the instructions.
I blew it by saying every book I had seen, etc.
For a good look at torque and how it is applied go to
http://www.avweb.com/articles/bogustor.html
Tom King
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Rave valve oil tank |
To all,
>PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question concerning the
>small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice since I
>got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked the oil
>tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was wondering if
>this is normal.
I use a little oil also (maybe half an ounce in 50 hours), but some of the
loss is out of the tank top itself. I have noticed a film of oil on the
side of the little tank on occasion that (ran, bubbled or otherwise was
thrown) out the vent hole of the cap. So far the oil in the tank is not
milky and the radiator water is perfectly clear.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FF wing rigging question |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Wally, I would say the answer to your question is "no" the wing tab does
not need to be centered. Whether the tab is centered or not mainly
depends on how the cage and the TE universal joints are welded up. Since
nothing is perfect and the flight characteristics of your plane will not
be appreciably changed with the tab in the center, no need to worry. What
really matters is getting both wings at the same angle of incidence and
this is determined by the placement of that hole that you drill in the
tabs and the one in the fork of the cage.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
>My questions deals with the main spar attach point where the clevis
>pin will be installed. There are 2 metal support tabs on the cage and
>one on the wing. It appears that the wing tab is not going to be
>centered between the 2 cage tabs. Ballpark, there is a 1/4 inch gap
>in front and a 1/2 inch gap on the back.
>
>Should the wing tab be centered?
>
>Will there be problems with tabs hitting while folding the wings?
>
>Thanks.
>---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F J MARINO" <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rave valve oil tank |
Thanks Cliff/Carolyn, I also notice oil film on the side of the oil tank,
infact I once lost the little disk that was in the cap and it made one heck
of a mess out my MKIII took a long time to get all the oil of the airplane.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:25 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Rave valve oil tank
>
>To all,
>
>>PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question concerning the
>>small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice since I
>>got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked the
oil
>>tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was wondering if
>>this is normal.
>
>I use a little oil also (maybe half an ounce in 50 hours), but some of the
>loss is out of the tank top itself. I have noticed a film of oil on the
>side of the little tank on occasion that (ran, bubbled or otherwise was
>thrown) out the vent hole of the cap. So far the oil in the tank is not
>milky and the radiator water is perfectly clear.
>
>Later,
>
>
>--
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <richard.wood(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
Before you drill try heat. Most of the 5 min epoxies soften up pretty
quick with a bit of heat. If you have time a hairdryer may work but a hot
air paint stripper would be best. A torch would also work and you don't need
it as hot as you would think. Try this first. If it works it will be easier
than drilling.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rick106(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rave valve oil tank |
Cliff
I have the same problem with my small tank ,I don't see any problems in
the radiator all is good in their. I do keep an watchful eye on it
dose seem to get a few spots on the horz. stab. how is the intercom
working out ? I will pull my plane out sat. and give her a good
looking over I am having trouble with the tack. to the tune that it is
not working I was told to crank the old rotax up and go from the tack.
wire to ground with a
d v m and I should see some output on the a/c don't remember how much
do you ?
maybe someone on the list knows how much A/C output should be their
Rick Libersat
writes:
>
>
>To all,
>
>>PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question
>concerning the
>>small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice
>since I
>>got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked
>the oil
>>tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was
>wondering if
>>this is normal.
>
>I use a little oil also (maybe half an ounce in 50 hours), but some of
>the
>loss is out of the tank top itself. I have noticed a film of oil on
>the
>side of the little tank on occasion that (ran, bubbled or otherwise
>was
>thrown) out the vent hole of the cap. So far the oil in the tank is
>not
>milky and the radiator water is perfectly clear.
>
>Later,
>
>
>--
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Souder <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
BTW, I've been flying off the
>replacement fiberglass rod for about 10 years.
>
Good point. Unless abused, a fiberglass rod should last a long time. About
the only thing that does them in is allowing the aircraft to sit with wings
folded, with all the tail weight being taken by the tailwheel. The
fiberglass rod under such loading will slowly twist until the tailwheel is
lying flat on the ground. If you have a fiberglass rod and fold your wings,
you should place blocks under the folded wings to take some of the weight
off the tailwheel and rod.
The fiberglass rod is actually a better spring than the aluminum, but we
discontinued using them because of the twisting with folded wings as
mentioned above and because of the difficulty of replacing the rod in the
instances when it is damaged.
Some have tried drilling and bolting the fiberglass rods in place. This
further reduces the twisting strength of the rod and typically such
installations will fail quickly.
Dennis Souder
Pres Kolb Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rave valve oil tank |
Hey guys, My oil tank leaked also until I stopped trying to keep it right at
the top full mark. I run mine at just above the low mark and keep a close
eye on it every time between take- offs.It doesn't seem to use anymore and
I'm not constantly having to clean the tail feathers. I even tore a little
strip of cloth and tied it around the bottom of the cap. Now the cloth
catches the oil and it's easier to clean than the tail. Hope this helps
.FIREHAWK.
-----Original Message-----
From: F J MARINO <FMARINO(at)netlink1.nlcomm.com>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rave valve oil tank
>
>Thanks Cliff/Carolyn, I also notice oil film on the side of the oil tank,
>infact I once lost the little disk that was in the cap and it made one heck
>of a mess out my MKIII took a long time to get all the oil of the airplane.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:25 PM
>Subject: Kolb-List: Rave valve oil tank
>
>
>
>>
>>To all,
>>
>>>PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question concerning
the
>>>small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice since I
>>>got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked the
>oil
>>>tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was wondering if
>>>this is normal.
>>
>>I use a little oil also (maybe half an ounce in 50 hours), but some of the
>>loss is out of the tank top itself. I have noticed a film of oil on the
>>side of the little tank on occasion that (ran, bubbled or otherwise was
>>thrown) out the vent hole of the cap. So far the oil in the tank is not
>>milky and the radiator water is perfectly clear.
>>
>>Later,
>>
>>
>>--
>>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>>(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>>and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
>> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Highsmith" <michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ? |
Thanks Bill, I knew there had to be an easier way to do it than the way I
was doing it. I'll try this and see if I can get better results. FIREHAWK
-----Original Message-----
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine vibration-The answer is:carbon ?
>
michael.highsmith(at)worldnet.att.net
>writes:
>
><< Would you mind telling me how you do that ? I bet there are a lot out
>there that
> would like to know. I've used prop balancers and they don't seem to give
me
> the balance I am looking for. There is always this low frequency vibration
> that can only come from the prop. I guess I'm spoiled by the smoothness of
> the IVO. >>
>
>Michael,
>
>I just use a static balancer of my own design. An 8" pc. of steel tubing,
1"
>in dia., fits into the hole in the prop. Then I took a 3/4" block of wood,
6"
>long X 3" wide, and fastened two pcs. of sheet metal, 6" long X 4" high, to
>the 3/4" edge, one on each side. The sheet metal edges have to be
absolutely
>parallel with each other. I fasten the wood block to my work bench, then
>level both edges of the metal. Have to use small wood shims sometimes to
get
>it perfect. Then I place the prop, with the tubing, on the sheet metal
edges.
>The tubing allows the prop to rotate from the horizontal position, with the
>heavy side going down. Never needed to adjust the balance yet, but if so I
>would use a clear spray on coating of some sort. Admittedly this is not
high
>tech, but it gets it pretty close.
>
><>
>
>Doesn't mention either on the container, just says "Exceeds SAE
>Miscibility/Fluidity Grade 3.
>
>Referring to what John Hauck said recently, I'm thinking now that what I
need
>to do is change the prop (from 66 X 30) to the recommended 66 X 28, so the
>engine can turn up and breathe easier and then run the piss out of it.
>
>
>Bill (wish I could afford an IVO prop) Varnes <--There, I did it, put in
some
>funny words.
>Audubon NJ
>Original FireStar 377
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
>
>We ran into a few questions...There is no
>suggestion on what to torque the nuts to on the aluminum plate that attaches
>to the crankcase,
>
Don't remember what the torque number is, but it is a great place to use
Locktite!
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke motors |
>
>. Probably the second most
>severe problem is one I don't recall seeing much of here. That is a main
>seal sucking air, especially the drive side. As it started, the symptoms
>could drive you crazy, very hard to pin-point. As it worsened, it would
>get more serious. On a large tree, 4or 5 or more feet thick, which makes
>for a long, hard pull, it could suck enough air to lean it out, overheat
>and seize the piston. Also seems like that was about the only time we did
>seize up. Is this a problem on Rotaxs ?? Or have they figured a way
>around it ?? Just noodling. Big Lar.
>
>The only Rotax I know of that has seized around here in years was one that
had blown a seal. And there's a lot of them around.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FF wing rigging question |
>
>PS for you guys that have 582,s or larger I have a question concerning the
>small oil tank for the valve, I have had to put oil in mine twice since I
>got the engine not much oil maybe a couple oil caps full, I checked the oil
>tank and there is no water and no oil in the radiator, I was wondering if
>this is normal.
It is not too good, but it is not too bad either. My 532 used about 1/8"
of oil out of the little bottle every 3 or 4 hours. It had done it for over
a hundred hours, and is starting to taper off lately, and is using less.
If you have a main seal leak into the crankcase cavity, so that the oil
reservoir for the crossover shaft is leaking into the crankcase cavity, the
system can become pressurized at full throttle, and will start to blow oil
out of the little bottle. Obviously you need to shut down ASAP.
This can happen when people disassemble your engine and put it back
together with RTV instead of the listed Locktite sealer. I bought a used
532 for my J-6 several years ago, and this was the situation. Use only the
Locktite specified in the shop manual, or on the CPS/LEAF parts pages and
it will seal.
It is important to seal the oil seals around their perimeter to the
crankcase with the Locktite.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque specs |
That is really excellent. Anyone working with machinery should read and
understand it. I stand corrected too. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Thomas L. King <kingdome(at)tcac.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Torque specs
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:14 PM
>
>
> Hi Group
>
> >
> For a good look at torque and how it is applied go to
>
> http://www.avweb.com/articles/bogustor.html
>
> Tom King
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke motors |
I should add that we used Pennzoil almost exclusively, mixed as per
directions. I don't recall ever having carbon problems. Of course there
would be a layer on the piston and inside the head, but always minimal.
Big Lar.
----------
> From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2 stroke motors
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 7:17 PM
>
>
> >
> >. Probably the second most
> >severe problem is one I don't recall seeing much of here. That is a
main
> >seal sucking air, especially the drive side. As it started, the
symptoms
> >could drive you crazy, very hard to pin-point. As it worsened, it would
> >get more serious. On a large tree, 4or 5 or more feet thick, which
makes
> >for a long, hard pull, it could suck enough air to lean it out, overheat
> >and seize the piston. Also seems like that was about the only time we
did
> >seize up. Is this a problem on Rotaxs ?? Or have they figured a way
> >around it ?? Just noodling. Big Lar.
> >
> >The only Rotax I know of that has seized around here in years was one
that
> had blown a seal. And there's a lot of them around.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FF wing rigging question |
Hi Wally: What's important is that both wings have the same angle of incidence
and that you have plenty of edge distance. Set everything up and and check
everything over several times before you drill. If you're not going to be
folding the wings, make bushings and bolt the wings on.
It's been a beautiful weekend for flying and I've still got two days to go!
Bill Griffin
Original Firestar
MKIII in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
Another neat little toy is the # 45700 Safety Wire Drill Jig from Avery
tools in Ft. Worth, TX. Small company, really great to deal with. The jig
lets you drill through the corner of a nut or bolt for safety wire. Be
careful - It eats 1/16" drill bits like candy, takes a delicate touch.
Big Lar.
----------
> From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Torque For Engine Mounts...
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 7:13 PM
>
>
>
> >
> >We ran into a few questions...There is no
> >suggestion on what to torque the nuts to on the aluminum plate that
attaches
> >to the crankcase,
> >
> Don't remember what the torque number is, but it is a great place to use
> Locktite!
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
> << There is no suggestion on what to torque the nuts to on the aluminum plate
> that attaches to the crankcase, or the bolts/nuts that go through the Lord
> Mounts. I read
> all pertinent material a thousand times and I couldn't find any #'s...So has
> everyone else just tightened it all up until you feel like it will stay
> connected in flight, or is there some magical ft/lb # that we should be aiming
> for? >>
>
> Frank,
>
> I checked my book and plans also and no mention of a torque number for the
> nuts to aluminum plate. But I believe it's a 10 mm nut and looking in the CPS
> catalog I see other nuts of similar size using 335 inch lbs. Be sure to use
> locktite or safety wire them. I just made mine tight, using the blue locktite
> and they have never come loose. The bolts that go through the lord mounts are
> the self locking type, but you can use locktite on them too if you want to.
http://www.allpowertrans.com/pages/page34.htm
http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/bolts.html
Try these charts.
As an aside, my Hirth uses 1/2 x 13p bolts to bolt up to the
plate...not some wimpy 10mm stud... ; )
J. Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke motors |
This post I sent is unclear. I meant that there are a lot of Rotax engines
around. rp
>
>. Probably the second most
>severe problem is one I don't recall seeing much of here. That is a main
>seal sucking air, especially the drive side. As it started, the symptoms
>could drive you crazy, very hard to pin-point. As it worsened, it would
>get more serious. On a large tree, 4or 5 or more feet thick, which makes
>for a long, hard pull, it could suck enough air to lean it out, overheat
>and seize the piston. Also seems like that was about the only time we did
>seize up. Is this a problem on Rotaxs ?? Or have they figured a way
>around it ?? Just noodling. Big Lar.
>
>The only Rotax I know of that has seized around here in years was one that
had blown a seal. And there's a lot of them around.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Spar Attach |
Thinking about Wally Hoffman's question on the wing attachment - I set my
Mk III up absolutely level, without the wheels and tires, and bolted it
solid to the floor. Stretched parachute cord tightly from wing tip to wing
tip - leading edge and trailing edge, used levels, tapes, rulers, shims,
and so on till I was darn near confuzzled. Then walked away for the day,
came back the next and double checked everything. Once those holes are
drilled you're done. No adjustments. Now, after reading other comments (
I think from John H. some time ago ) I wish I had somehow made provision
for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
Larry, I also fed a few 1/16" drill bits to this neat tool before I
was told that there is a special drill made to use with it. It is
called a tap-drill and it has only about 1/8" of spiraled cutting
area, the rest is solid shaft. They cost a little more, but last
MUCHO longer and are therefore MUCHO cheaper.
Have FUN
Ron Carroll
Original Firestar-377
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday November 27 1998 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Torque For Engine Mounts...
>
>Another neat little toy is the # 45700 Safety Wire Drill Jig from
Avery
>tools in Ft. Worth, TX. Small company, really great to deal with.
The jig
>lets you drill through the corner of a nut or bolt for safety wire.
Be
>careful - It eats 1/16" drill bits like candy, takes a delicate
touch.
> Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
>I wish I had somehow made provision
>for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
>that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
>rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
Big Lar and all,
Yep! I would imagine that of all the airframe parts in flight the lift
struts get a lot of stress (in tension anyway). I don't think I would want
some kind of telescopic mechanism in it that "possibly" could come loose or
fail.
It took a long time for me to convenience myself that the clevis pins
connecting both ends would be strong enough. After looking at the video of
the Ultrastar, Flyer (or whatever the early version was) doing loops and
other aerobatics, I figured I could fly safely "not" doing those maneuvers.
Something heppened to me entirely by accident in rigging the main wings.
Before I raised the wing tips for dihedral the leading edge was not
perfectly straight. I wanted to make sure that I had enough metal on the
outer edges of the main wing attach tab holes and therefore I drilled the
tabs so that the wing tips were a tiny bit forward of the inboard ends on
each side. When I raised the tips the required distance (1" on each side
if I remember), then the leading edges viewed from the side were perfectly
straight. The fact that the wings have the different angle of attack vs.
the fuselage caused the wingtips to move to the rear a little as they were
raised. As far as rigging and how it flies is concerned, it probably flies
as well whatever the small sweep of the wings. So far, I have never felt I
needed more dihedral than what the plans called for. Once trimmed up it
does not seem to have any tendency to want to roll off to one side or need
any more stick attention even in turbulence than did Cessnas of my past
experience.
Rudder on the other hand is another subject. I would recommend everyone
adding a yaw string (primary flying instrument) and the rudder trim tab
like the plans addendum recommends. I have not yet because: (1) I am lazy
(2) my rudder looks too pretty to mess up now and (3) I don't mind riding
left rudder most of the time.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
(972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Carroll " <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
>Rudder on the other hand is another subject. I would recommend
everyone
>adding a yaw string (primary flying instrument) and the rudder trim
tab
>like the plans addendum recommends. I have not yet because: (1) I am
lazy
>(2) my rudder looks too pretty to mess up now and (3) I don't mind
riding
>left rudder most of the time.
How about trying a bit stonger spring on the left rudder pedal, or a
weaker one on the right. Has anyone tried this?
Ron Carroll
Original Firestar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
> The fiberglass rod is actually a better spring than the aluminum, but we
Was wondering about this
> Some have tried drilling and bolting the fiberglass rods in place. This
> further reduces the twisting strength of the rod and typically such
> installations will fail quickly.
hmmmm... I did this on mine last summer. The twist with epoxy only had
finally failed when I left my plane out in front with the wings folded
on a strong north wind day. The constant side load finally worked it
over and I was glad to have it happen right in front of my garage instead
of parked at a public strip. I drilled a 3/16 hole thru, as far up the
sleeve as possible and still catch the rod. I guess I'll see how long
this lasts and not be expecting much.
One note from my build on the engine mount torque subject. When I bolted
each Lord mount to the airframe I found on the first couple bolts that
I easily over torqued them. Some care is needed here as these are small
bolts (AN3), and the little voice in my head was thinking "get these
tight". Easy to over do. I changed up to AN-4 so I didn't have to fret
about having left in over-torqued, weakend AN-3s.
-Ben Ransom
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Dennis and others,
The fiberglass rod that has lasted 10 years also sits with the wings
folded and has no support. Maybe it's time to take some weight off.
Just got out of the air and had a nice 2 hour flight. It was so hazy, I
almost got lost .... left the GPS at home. Wouldn't you know it, when you
think that you don't need it, you really do. Oh well, it was fun to find
my own way for a change and look outside the cockpit. The air was
smoooooth and I flew next to a Piper Cub for awhile. I changed his
opinion about ultralights.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 447 powered
writes:
>BTW, I've been flying off the
>>replacement fiberglass rod for about 10 years.
>>
>
>Good point. Unless abused, a fiberglass rod should last a long time.
>About the only thing that does them in is allowing the aircraft to sit
with
>wings folded, with all the tail weight being taken by the tailwheel.
The
>fiberglass rod under such loading will slowly twist until the
>tailwheel is lying flat on the ground.
>
>Dennis Souder
>Pres Kolb Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
>
> I wish I had somehow made provision
>for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
>that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
>rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
>Big Lar.
>
Maybe not. The strut ends on mine were long enough that I was able to put
one more bolt hole through them.
When we drilled them initially, we (my machinist brother-in-law & I)
spaced the three holes at each end evenly apart. By removing the bolts and
sliding the end fitting out one hole's length, we had two holes in the end
fitting that lined up, and needed one new hole through the fitting. Used
the existing hole through the strut as a guide to drill the new hole
through the strut end and was all set.
HOWEVER: I could tell no difference with 0", 1.75", or 3" of dihedral in
the wings. Asked J. Hauck about it at Oshkosh, and he laughed, said I would
never get it to fly hands off. He was right. It currently has 3", but I
will put it back to 1.75" this winter. IMHO, you only need just enough
dihedral to make it "look good".
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque For Engine Mounts... |
Thanks Ron, now where do I find some of those. In the very near future
I'll be needing them. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Ron Carroll <ron.carroll(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Torque For Engine Mounts...
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 9:19 PM
>
>
> Larry, I also fed a few 1/16" drill bits to this neat tool before I
> was told that there is a special drill made to use with it. It is
> called a tap-drill and it has only about 1/8" of spiraled cutting
> area, the rest is solid shaft. They cost a little more, but last
> MUCHO longer and are therefore MUCHO cheaper.
>
> Have FUN
>
> Ron Carroll
> Original Firestar-377
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday November 27 1998 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Torque For Engine Mounts...
>
>
>
> >
> >Another neat little toy is the # 45700 Safety Wire Drill Jig from
> Avery
> >tools in Ft. Worth, TX. Small company, really great to deal with.
> The jig
> >lets you drill through the corner of a nut or bolt for safety wire.
> Be
> >careful - It eats 1/16" drill bits like candy, takes a delicate
> touch.
> > Big Lar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
Talk about great minds running in the same circles. I've looked at those
same pins with exactly the same thoughts. It's fairly easy to rationalize
to your mind. It's a little tougher to talk to that little monkey
scampering around in the back of your head. ( or your id, or subconscious,
or back brain or whaddaya wanna call it. ) I agree about the tension on
the struts, and that's why I don't know how I'd go about it. I guess if
you're off enough to matter, a new end fitting and re-drilling would be
about the only safe answer. What bothers me the most is the gap at the
lower end. Seems like it would have less stress if it was set up like a
close fitting mortise and tenon, rather than the bending moment it has now.
I bought a worm gear window opener some time ago, and am
planning on putting a lever or crank on the output shaft and hooking it to
the rudder return spring. Have to have a limit stop too, in case the
winder breaks. It'll give variable tension to the spring, which should
work out about like the elevator trim springs. I like the way trim tabs
work, for sure, but I don't like the way they look either. Also prefer
adjustability for different conditions. Thanks for the reply. Your input
has always been very good. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 8:33 AM
>
>
> >I wish I had somehow made provision
> >for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
> >that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
> >rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
>
> Big Lar and all,
>
> Yep! I would imagine that of all the airframe parts in flight the lift
> struts get a lot of stress (in tension anyway). I don't think I would
want
> some kind of telescopic mechanism in it that "possibly" could come loose
or
> fail.
>
> It took a long time for me to convenience myself that the clevis pins
> connecting both ends would be strong enough. After looking at the video
of
> the Ultrastar, Flyer (or whatever the early version was) doing loops and
> other aerobatics, I figured I could fly safely "not" doing those
maneuvers.
>
>
> Rudder on the other hand is another subject. I would recommend everyone
> adding a yaw string (primary flying instrument) and the rudder trim tab
> like the plans addendum recommends. I have not yet because: (1) I am
lazy
> (2) my rudder looks too pretty to mess up now and (3) I don't mind riding
> left rudder most of the time.
>
> Later,
>
>
> --
> Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
> (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
> and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Souder <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
>
>Dennis and others,
>
>The fiberglass rod that has lasted 10 years also sits with the wings
>folded and has no support. Maybe it's time to take some weight off.
>
Ralph,
This violates all known laws of physics ... are you from the planet Earth?
Dennis (never-ceasing-to-be-amazed) Souder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
I had a trim system that I removed for one reason or another. I now use a
bungee hooked to the left pedal and slide it up and down the stick as needed
to give me some nose down and my tendency to go left. Before I gap sealed the
horiz to the boom I had to hook it to the bottom of the stick bellcrank to
give me some nose up. Its easy to vary the length and pressure and looks
cleaner than having stuff hanging of the control surfaces
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <olendorf(at)empireone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
How about making another set of struts?
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 377
Schenectady, NY USA
http://members.aol.com/olefiresta
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
>
>Talk about great minds running in the same circles. I've looked at those
>same pins with exactly the same thoughts. It's fairly easy to rationalize
>to your mind. It's a little tougher to talk to that little monkey
>scampering around in the back of your head. ( or your id, or subconscious,
>or back brain or whaddaya wanna call it. ) I agree about the tension on
>the struts, and that's why I don't know how I'd go about it. I guess if
>you're off enough to matter, a new end fitting and re-drilling would be
>about the only safe answer. What bothers me the most is the gap at the
>lower end. Seems like it would have less stress if it was set up like a
>close fitting mortise and tenon, rather than the bending moment it has now.
> I bought a worm gear window opener some time ago, and am
>planning on putting a lever or crank on the output shaft and hooking it to
>the rudder return spring. Have to have a limit stop too, in case the
>winder breaks. It'll give variable tension to the spring, which should
>work out about like the elevator trim springs. I like the way trim tabs
>work, for sure, but I don't like the way they look either. Also prefer
>adjustability for different conditions. Thanks for the reply. Your input
>has always been very good. Big Lar.
>
>----------
>> From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)dfw.net>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
>> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 8:33 AM
>>
>
>>
>> >I wish I had somehow made provision
>> >for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
>> >that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
>> >rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
>>
>> Big Lar and all,
>>
>> Yep! I would imagine that of all the airframe parts in flight the lift
>> struts get a lot of stress (in tension anyway). I don't think I would
>want
>> some kind of telescopic mechanism in it that "possibly" could come loose
>or
>> fail.
>>
>> It took a long time for me to convenience myself that the clevis pins
>> connecting both ends would be strong enough. After looking at the video
>of
>> the Ultrastar, Flyer (or whatever the early version was) doing loops and
>> other aerobatics, I figured I could fly safely "not" doing those
>maneuvers.
>>
>>
>> Rudder on the other hand is another subject. I would recommend everyone
>> adding a yaw string (primary flying instrument) and the rudder trim tab
>> like the plans addendum recommends. I have not yet because: (1) I am
>lazy
>> (2) my rudder looks too pretty to mess up now and (3) I don't mind riding
>> left rudder most of the time.
>>
>> Later,
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cliff & Carolyn Stripling Him: Retired Pharmacist
>> (972)247-9821 Dallas Texas Her: Real Estate Broker - Texas
>> and Marble Falls Texas Both: 5th Wheel - RV - Travel
>> Kolb MKIII - N582CC (50+ hrs)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
Certainly, but it would be much more expensive. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Scott Olendorf <olendorf(at)empireone.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 8:50 PM
>
>
> How about making another set of struts?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 12:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
That sounds great, O.P. Slick and simple. I'll go out tomorrow and take a
look and see if I've painted my self into a corner - again. However, based
on what you say, I won't do anything till I see how it flies. You may have
gotten the feeling from my posting that I took extreme care in that
portion. Big Lar
----------
> From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: dihedral
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 7:30 PM
>
>
> >
> > I wish I had somehow made provision
> >for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
> >that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
> >rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
> >Big Lar.
> >
> Maybe not. The strut ends on mine were long enough that I was able to
put
> one more bolt hole through them.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldpoops)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
See that ?? Once again, slick and simple. Thanks. Big Lar.
----------
> From: Frcole(at)aol.com
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 8:44 PM
>
>
> I had a trim system that I removed for one reason or another. I now use
a
> bungee hooked to the left pedal and slide it up and down the stick as
needed
> to give me some nose down and my tendency to go left. Before I gap
sealed the
> horiz to the boom I had to hook it to the bottom of the stick bellcrank
to
> give me some nose up. Its easy to vary the length and pressure and looks
> cleaner than having stuff hanging of the control surfaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com (Ralph H Burlingame) |
Dennis and others again,
The last time I checked I was from the good 'ol earth. The folded wings
only rest against a cabinet inside the single-car garage where it's
stored. All of the folded weight is on that tailwheel. When I installed
the rod 10 years ago, I got some epoxy for free from the research company
that I used to work for. At the time, I told them that I needed the epoxy
for a tailwheel of a plane. I didn't say that it was for an ultralight. I
did get some "raised eyebrow" looks. They must've given me the strongest
stuff they could find.
Ralph
>>Dennis and others,
>>
>>The fiberglass rod that has lasted 10 years also sits with the wings
>>folded and has no support. Maybe it's time to take some weight off.
>>
>
>Ralph,
writes:
>
>This violates all known laws of physics ... are you from the planet
>Earth?
>
>Dennis (never-ceasing-to-be-amazed) Souder
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
> the rod 10 years ago, I got some epoxy for free from the research company
> that I used to work for. At the time, I told them that I needed the epoxy
> for a tailwheel of a plane. I didn't say that it was for an ultralight. I
I used PRC on mine. Outdated from the American Eagle maintenance
place my brother was working at at the time, but still plenty good.
Shlopped a bunch in the tail tube and the tailwheel assy, stuck in the
glass rod, and said to myself - I'll need to build a new tail section if
that ever needs to be pulled out. :) It has ~4 years on it sitting in
the garage, full weight of folded wings. I just remembered, that when
it twisted over last summer, the part that twisted was really the tail
wheel assy, not the front-end inside the steel tail assy. I added the
AN3 bolt to both ends although at the time I still thought it unlikely
the front end would ever ever budge. Dennis, if I ever order a new
tail ass'y, you will know that it finally gave up. :)
-Ben
Ralph, I liked your bit about changing the Cub pilot's opinion of ULs
last flight. I'm vain enf to think we Kolb owners do that quite a bit.
My last time out too, a 172 owner was asking me all the wannabe questions
and lamenting the $6k he just sunk into his plane for a full paint job.
He said it will never look better so maybe he'll sell now and get
something like ours. Another funny side thing I noticed: How long does
it take to unfold a Kolb? ...About as long as it takes to gas up a a 172.
Honest, a couple months back I was starting to set up as a 172 pulled up
to the self service pump. I was putting in the last pin when I notice
him starting up and leaving the gas pit. course I needed to gas up too,
but I had already done that the evening before at home. I am starting
to envy his cabin heat tho!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Envy: 150/172 etc vs. Uls |
Every time a spamcan driver walks by my FF and laughs/smirks, I
"sweetly" tell him he's just a medical away from a UL. They get kinda
sober then. And I laugh. Grey Baron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPHER DAVIS" <cdavis2(at)capecod.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Attach |
Lar , wouldn't increased dihedral be a funtion of longer struts as the wing
attach points either pivot or are universal joints?? chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 11:34 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Spar Attach
>
>Thinking about Wally Hoffman's question on the wing attachment - I set my
>Mk III up absolutely level, without the wheels and tires, and bolted it
>solid to the floor. Stretched parachute cord tightly from wing tip to wing
>tip - leading edge and trailing edge, used levels, tapes, rulers, shims,
>and so on till I was darn near confuzzled. Then walked away for the day,
>came back the next and double checked everything. Once those holes are
>drilled you're done. No adjustments. Now, after reading other comments (
>I think from John H. some time ago ) I wish I had somehow made provision
>for increasing dihedral if necessary. Not sure how you would go about
>that, but it seems like it would be desirable, if only to fine tune the
>rigging. As it is, when you drill the struts, that's it.
>Big Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPHER DAVIS" <cdavis2(at)capecod.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel rod replacement |
Ben How long does it take to set up a KOLB ?? about 10 mins if I do it
alone , about a half an hour if someone else "HELPS" chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <ransom(at)mae.engr.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tailwheel rod replacement
>
>> the rod 10 years ago, I got some epoxy for free from the research company
>> that I used to work for. At the time, I told them that I needed the epoxy
>> for a tailwheel of a plane. I didn't say that it was for an ultralight. I
>
>I used PRC on mine. Outdated from the American Eagle maintenance
>place my brother was working at at the time, but still plenty good.
>Shlopped a bunch in the tail tube and the tailwheel assy, stuck in the
>glass rod, and said to myself - I'll need to build a new tail section if
>that ever needs to be pulled out. :) It has ~4 years on it sitting in
>the garage, full weight of folded wings. I just remembered, that when
>it twisted over last summer, the part that twisted was really the tail
>wheel assy, not the front-end inside the steel tail assy. I added the
>AN3 bolt to both ends although at the time I still thought it unlikely
>the front end would ever ever budge. Dennis, if I ever order a new
>tail ass'y, you will know that it finally gave up. :)
>-Ben
>
>Ralph, I liked your bit about changing the Cub pilot's opinion of ULs
>last flight. I'm vain enf to think we Kolb owners do that quite a bit.
>My last time out too, a 172 owner was asking me all the wannabe questions
>and lamenting the $6k he just sunk into his plane for a full paint job.
>He said it will never look better so maybe he'll sell now and get
>something like ours. Another funny side thing I noticed: How long does
>it take to unfold a Kolb? ...About as long as it takes to gas up a a 172.
>Honest, a couple months back I was starting to set up as a 172 pulled up
>to the self service pump. I was putting in the last pin when I notice
>him starting up and leaving the gas pit. course I needed to gas up too,
>but I had already done that the evening before at home. I am starting
>to envy his cabin heat tho!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Larry Bourne" |
Larry, Just wondered what kind of plane are you currently building and how
ong have you been working on it?
November 16, 1998 - November 29, 1998
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bc