Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-br
September 23, 1999 - October 19, 1999
Hi gang,
I'm new to the list and thought I'd watch for a while.
I'm building a KR-2 and currently have an Advanced Aviation Cobra. I want to get
rid of the Cobra and buy a nice healthy Kolb. I haven't decided between a
Mark III and a FireStar or Firefly but I know when I picture a fun desert flying
toy it looks like a Kolb. I'm listening in for a reality check and to see
what they might be like to maintain. Maybe in a while I'll see if one of you
lives close enough I could bum a ride. My Cobra looked great but handles like
@#$% so I want to find a place that teaches in or someone who has a Mark III
so I can try it before I buy one. I live in the California desert (North of
Mojave). Good flying county! Well that's it for now
-Peter Hudson-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sender: owner-kolb-list-server |
>
>
> Whats the weather supposed to be doing for the flyin this weekend? I hope
>to be there.
>
>
> Woody
Save me a spot. Be there Friday-3:30 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: half-doors on Mark III |
>
>Hey gang:
>
>Want some doors on my Mark III to reduce wind and improve intercom
>communications. Ive seen some references to half-doors, and would like
>to get some particulars on what they look like, their effectiveness, how
>to do it. Saw a reference to a picture at
>http://www.bentley.com/scott/kolbdoor.jpg in the archives, but thats
>apparently no longer on the web.
>
>Can someone provide a little info and/or alternative web sites?
>If all else fails Ill have to resort to stealing Big Lar's gull-wings I
>guess.
>
>Regards,
>Erich Weaver
>
>
I have half doors on my MKIII and am quite pleased.
They need to come to about half way between
the knee and the hip, and they will do fine.
If you stand out in front of the airplane, even with either edge
of the fuselage,and look straight back even with each edge
of the fuselage, that is where the edge of the door needs to
come to, and the slipstream will go right by.
Does that make sense? I'll try again:
Visualize where your outer shoulder would be, and if the door
comes back far enough so that the air flows past just a little farther
to the outside, then you are good to go.
Ricahrd Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
I am getting conflicting information on
>exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
>Could use some good guide lines.
>
>Thanks: Terry K.
>
At least 1050, less than 1200, and you will be in the ballpark.
Be advised, the EGT gauges are not that accurate. My
532 shows 1200 on the front cylinder and 1150 on the rear
cylinder at cruise, but the plugs indicate it is probably closer
to 1050-1100, nowhere near 1200. EGT gauges will get you
somewhere close, but you need to be able to read plugs.
(So that you can calibrate your EGT gauge...???)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
| Subject: | Re: Introducing myself |
............................. I want to find a place that teaches in or
someone who has a Mark III so I can try it before I buy one. I live in the
California desert (North of Mojave).
-Peter Hudson-
fellow listers,
doesn't Big Lar live in that neck of the woods ? ............ tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
You should be able to idle smooth at 2200 RPM. We have no problem with our
two 447's in the 2000 area. Below that and gear box chatter starts showing
so keep it in the 2000 or above area.
If it's rough above 2000 you got a problem you need to track down. Have
you set up you idle mixture. Many get confused and adjust the wrong screw
for idle, that is the idle mixture.
Make sure you have used 140W weight gear oil for the gear box. Lots of
difference if you happen to put 90W in it. Chatters easier at higher RPM.
Is the engine missing - check plugs one might be fouled. How's the CHT's
and EGT's compare. Either cylinder hot or cold. One thing I think its
wise to do is torque the heads and manifolds right away and then again
after you run it a couple hours. I just went through a EGT temp ordeal due
to a small cylinder head gasket leak. We torqued our first 447 right away,
this one we didn't. I now think we should have. Ended up changing out the
gasket on the hot cylinder. Temps are now within 20 degrees of each other.
The 447 on our Kolb so far has run like a top.
>
>There is a rule that you should follow when setting a Rotax engine for idle
>after starting. Warm up above 2500 and set the idle speed no less than 2200
>rpm. If it doesn't run smooth at that setting and you know your idle jet is
>sized right turn it up until it does. That is where your particular engine
>should idle. You can do damage to the whole drive line if you let it chatter
>for very long.
>Do your engine a favor and keep the idle above 2200 or what ever rpm that
>keeps it running smooth.
>Firehawk
>
>
>>From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
>>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rough idle
>>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:04:02 -0500
>>
>>
>>Terry K,
>>
>>My fairly new 447 starts and initially idles, if you could it that, at
>>abt 1650, BUT shakes like a dawg crappin' peach pits. Shakes SO bad I
>>fear for the Lords, so come up to at least 2000 to save the plane from
>>coming apart. After a few mins. at 2000-2100, still not at all smooth, I
>>go to 2500 where it sarts to get decent. Above that it really hums. Does
>>the same initial shaking at startup even after a half hr shutdown,
>>minding to cooldown gradually.
>>
>>I await cooler, or hotter, heads for an answer--unless this is a fact of
>>447s. bn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> Someone was asking about simple GPS 's that are available. I have the
>cheep Magelland which sells for $99.00 dollars at walmart or Kmart. I have
>used it to fly my cessna all arround the northeast and find it to be the
>best of both worlds. It has no data base, but has 100 memories and is very
>easy to program and use. It has route capability, shows actual heading and
>speed. It will even display your time of arrival based on your speed. The
>best thing is it gives you a simple compass rose with a needle and you use
>it as if you were using a VOR. No buttons to play with while flying and
>you can be looking out windshield like you should be. It runs for 48 hrs
>on two AA batteries. Its been very reliable. NY
I wrote an article for Sport Aviation several years back
about the little boater/hiker hand-helds. I've had several
of the Magellan handhelds, the GPS2000 is still my favorite
but they all work fine. Haven't even turned a VOR receiver
ON in over two years. Once you've gone cross country direct
to hit a waypoint 1 mile off the approach end of the runway
with a $100 radio, it's hard to go back! There's a copy
of the article available at:
http://home.kscable.com/aeroelectric/articles/nailgun.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/23/99 12:49:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tkrolfe(at)epix.net writes:
<< That the other question. I am getting conflicting information on
exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
Could use some good guide lines.
Thanks: Terry K. >>
Don't mount your EGT probe at the exhaust Y like I did cause it will read too
high!!!.......... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Gherkins" <rp3420(at)EMAIL.SPS.MOT.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce Co. |
Hey Bob,
I have been mean'in to gettin over to your home and drule on your Firefly and
ask some tech questions. Is Sunday morning good for you? I'll give you a
call today and set something up.
Thanks,
Tim
adr;dom: ;;;CH305;;;
tel;work: 6028144651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Buss bar calculations . . . |
>> > Yesterday, I sat down to figure out if my busses were adequate.
Current
>> >plan is to use 1/2" strips of .031" silver. The busses are little and
>> >short, so I was mostly worried about temperature rise, less about voltage
>> >drop.
Temperature rise and voltage drop go hand-in-hand . . . loss
of energy due to voltage drop converts directly to heat. However,
thin strips of bare metal have the BETTER heat rejection than
insulated wires of the same cross section. Further, because
the strip is bolted to the terminal posts of circuit breakers
every inch or so, you can probably get by with a very thin
foil . . . buss bars tend to be thick for the purpose of making
them mechanically favorable to work with.
>> Silver? Talk about overkill! Trust me, it isn't an issue.
>>
>*** Yeah, well, I was going to make them of copper ( "Gee", said my IA, "all
>the busses in my Bonanza are copper" ) but the FSDO inspector wanted me to
>put in inspection requirements for the copper. Something like
>
> "Inspect for corrosion at annual. If corrosion is found, remove bus and
>burnish it off. Use Swiglet special tool PAQ-FIBS-1 for burnishing. Bus is
>adequately burnished when it looks like new copper. Replace bus if, after
>burnishing, it is less than 0.XX inches thick or less than 0.XX inches
>wide."
This statement probably grew out of a paragraph in AC43-13 wherein
a suggestion is made for "periodic cleaning of buss bars for
corrosion" or something like that. EAA asked me to comment
on the rewrite of AC43-13 about two years ago, I pointed out that
properly assembled hardware attaching bus bars to breakers uses
multi-tooth lockwashers or at the least, properly torqued fasteners
that create GAS TIGHT joints. If properly assembled, very corroded
bus bars can have perfectly good electrical properties because the
place where breakers and screws hit the bar are SEALED from
environmental effects. Most copper production bus bars are
tin or solder plated to retard corrosion of bare copper surfaces.
However, when clean hardware is assembled with internal tooth
lockwashers under properly torqued fasteners, that joint is
good for a lot more years than you're going to own the airplane.
The science of crimping terminals to wires calls on the same
conditions for getting two pieces of metal into intimate contact
with each other.
None-the-less, after EAA comments were forwarded to
the FAA, -and- the document went back to the techwriters
for another two years worth of work, AC43-13 is still loaded
with poorly crafted suggestions and requirements that receive
further bastardization when invoked by ignorant people with
power.
> ...Since I used silver, I was able to say something more like
>
>"Since busses are solid silver, they should remain free of electrically
>significant corrosion for the life of the airplane".
Silver is about as reactive to atmospheric stresses as copper.
Why would we need "silver polish" for the family heirlooms
were it not so? However, assembled with proper hardware and
techniques, a silver bus bar will perform no better or worse
than its copper brothers.
>...I had the silver sheet just lying around, anyway. My dad was an amateur
>jeweler, and when he died, I got all his stuff. That silver has been in the
>closet for 15 years. I'd kept it because I thought it might come in handy
>for RF projects.
I've got a couple of silver bars that I bought about 20 years
ago to silver-plate the inside surfaces of VHF antenna duplexer
cavities I was building out of copper clad etched circuit board
material . . . here's where a few molecules of silver laid
on top of the copper was really worth the effort. Don't anyone
run out looking for silver strip to "update" your airplane's
bus bars . . . anyone who suggests it's either necessary or
useful simply doesn't understand the physics involved.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Introducing myself |
Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com wrote:
>
> ............................. I want to find a place that teaches in or
> someone who has a Mark III so I can try it before I buy one. I live in the
> California desert (North of Mojave).
>
> -Peter Hudson-
>
> fellow listers,
> doesn't Big Lar live in that neck of the woods ? ............ tim
>
No,, Big Lar lives in the Palm Springs area. Also his MKIII is still in parts
on
his porch. He has quite a way to go before you could try his out...
I have a MKIII and I live just west of Mojave. You are welcome to "look" at it
if you wish, but the quote, "try it before I buy one" is a bit presumptuous.
South of Mojave in the lake Los Angeles area is an instructor who has a modified
MKII.
Tell me, just exactly where are you located? Are you in Cal city or Cantil?
It will be nice to have another MKIII around here.
Regards
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Cabling |
Thanks for the information on the Radio Shack switch. The only ones I
saw in the store were SP/ST. I didn't know why the PTT with the
Comtronics was SP/DT. Learn something new every day/
Again - Thanks
rick m libersat wrote:
>
>
> Bill
> In my Mk.III I put the push/talk switch in the control stick like you I
> have the comtronics and what I did was to cut their switch off and I got
> one from raido shack the best thing to do is to get a cat. from rat.shack
> and order one.What you are looking for is a switch that single pole
> double throw the reason is that when you transmit you can hear your self
> through the head set .if you look in a new Radio Shack catalog on page213
> on the lower left side of that page the one you need is 1SPDT On - (on)
> cat.no RSU11336328........the price $9.69 make sure that when you order
> that what ever color you go with that it has On-(on) this means
> momentary when depressed
> hope I have not been to long winded .
>
> Rick Libersat
>
> writes:
> >
> >I am about ready to install my radio, and have everything planned out
> >except for one thing. The push-to-talk switch. I would like to mount
> >it
> >on the stick, but the PTT that came with the Comtronics patch cord
> >isn't
> >conducive to mounting this way. The button itself is tiny, about 1/4"
> >across, almost not usable with gloves. Also, it is designed to be
> >mounted in a panel. The wires come out in-line with the switch.
> >
> >I've looked for a replacement, but the intermittent switches I found
> >at
> >Radio Shack were all the same design so it can only be mounted through
> >a
> >surface rather than on it.
> >
> >How have some of you hooked up the PTT and what have you used? Any
> >cockpit photos on-line showing radio wiring?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >--
> >***********************************************
> >* Bill Weber * Keep *
> >* Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
> >* Simi Valley, CA * side up *
> >***********************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
***********************************************
* Bill Weber * Keep *
* Voiceboard Corp * the shiny *
* Simi Valley, CA * side up *
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: half-doors on Mark III |
Hi Eric,
I added halve doors to my MKIII quite a few years and 500 flying hrs ago
and they cover about halve the area in the front, need no locks and are
easy to make since they do not require a frame, just some 5/16' dia
stiffeners in front and back to maintain the shape. The hinge is directly
attached to the top edge of the poly carbonate of the same thickness as the
full doors. The airstream keeps em closed in flight. The lenght depends on
how fast you intend to fly and you need to experiment a little. Mine work
fine up to 60 MPH ASI. If you intend to fly much faster than that a full
frame around the poly carbonate is probably required although I have tested
mine up to 75 Mph without a problem but lots of wind in my face.
For a closeup see my webpage and go to the "Tech info" and find the link on
top for the halve door page information.
http://www.webcom.com/reynen
Frank Reynen
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: half-doors on Mark III
Hey gang:
Want some doors on my Mark III to reduce wind and improve intercom
communications. Ive seen some references to half-doors, and would like
to get some particulars on what they look like, their effectiveness, how
to do it. Saw a reference to a picture at
http://www.bentley.com/scott/kolbdoor.jpg in the archives, but thats
apparently no longer on the web.
Can someone provide a little info and/or alternative web sites?
If all else fails Ill have to resort to stealing Big Lar's gull-wings I
guess.
Regards,
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
Can someone tell me what the correct gear oil for a 377 rotax gear box. I
thought 80/90 weight , but someone said 140 Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Randy, forget the mineral oils and use Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. It
will make your gearbox run cooler, last longer, and the engine will be
easier to start. I used it on my A gearbox for the 377 and now use it on
my B gearbox for the 447.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>
>Can someone tell me what the correct gear oil for a 377 rotax gear
>box. I
>thought 80/90 weight , but someone said 140 Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sender: owner-kolb-list-server |
>> Whats the weather supposed to be doing for the flyin this weekend? I hope
>>to be there.
>>
>>
>> Woody
>Save me a spot. Be there Friday-3:30 PM
>
Save me a spot I can't be there before noon Sat. and will camp out Sat
night. See ya there. This is a 6 hr drive.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: tractor kolb... |
Do not look directly at the Laser....
(supposed to be a joke)
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 4-stroke Engines |
I'm maybe a little late on this, but a few years ago I was on Atkins mailing
list, and I know that he's done a tremendous amount of work on the Mazda
rotaries. ( 13B ?? ) They are quite a bit larger than the new German
engine, and develop more power per rotor. I believe these are the engines
being used on the RV's. For sure on Tracy Crook's ( Cook's ?? ) RV-3.
Big Lar.
>
> >
> >This has been a nice discussion on the different "4 stroke" engines
> >available for the mark III. I thought you might be interested in another
one
> >thrown into the mix. The Wankel folks in Germany have come out with a
> >couple of rotary engines that are available for light aircraft. A 35
> >horsepower and a 75 horsepower engine. It comes complete with reduction
> >system. The exclusive reseller for these engines is Atkins Aviation. IF
> >anyone is interested in more specific information his web sight is
> >http://www.atkinsrotary.com/. The 75 hp engine is comparable in price to
the
> >Jabiru 80.
> >
> >John Wood -22.2 hours
> >N670JW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "plane" <plane(at)atomic.net> |
has any body ever seen a ultrastar or firestar with a Subaru engine on it.I
had a motor out last week with cyuna 2 02 (burned piston) had no warning
made a good landing in a soy bean field. airplane can still be used. but I
don't want a two stroke engine any more my nerves cant take off field
landings any more. I have a EA 71 1600cc Subaru engine that weighs 132 lbs
ready to run that I can put on my plane this will add about 72 lbs to my
plane . up to 325 lbs I know that im only going to be getting 447
performance but it is the cheapest way to get back in the air. I have
flown this engine on a skylight and it works super. and only uses two GPH.
Am I dreaming to big of a dream. Is it possible to do this? I know that I
can get the C G right, this will make my gross wt 540lbs
Randy
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 582 Exhaust hooks/springs |
Hi Gang:
Had a great idea. Thought I'd get a brand new exhaust system and have it
ceramic coated. Would be functional, look good and last a long time.
Called Kolb and ordered the exhaust from them with the spec that they weld
the hooks on. Figured that since they build 'em they'd be put in the right
places. Had Kolb ship the pieces directly to HPC for coating. Finally
received the pieces from HPC. The muffler was doing the cucharacha or
something. There were a bunch of ceramic blasting beads left inside. After
doing the Mexican band thing for three days there are still some of the
little buggars in there. Called HPC and they promised to get an UPS pickup
and ship the unit back to remove the remainder of their beads at their cost.
Have not heard more from them with the pickup info.
But, I digress. The Rotax manual says nothing about spring sizes, etc. The
CPS catalog says there are two sizes. The LEAF catalog says there is one size
for 582 and another size for others. I have two new sets of three; one
tightly wound and the other more loosely wound. When attempting to connect
the manifold to the elbow with the same size springs that are on the original
(looser wound) the units mate at an awkward angle. When I straighten the
units out where they mate correctly two springs have normal tension and the
other is quite loose, almost no tension. It looks like Kolb welded one of the
hooks at a farther distance from the end than the other two. Today being
Saturday I won't be able to ask Kolb till Monday.
In the meantime anyone out there have any words on the spring and hook setup?
Thanks
Bill George
Winds are finally light and bird sits with exhaust removed.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 582 Exhaust hooks/springs |
Bill G,
I had my old 447 system coated and bot all new springs, all same size.
When reassembling, found that two of the springs were too loose. So I
reckon there ARE two sizes. Should have measured the old ones before
tossing. bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
Four of us flew up to Chestnut Knolls today for the Kolb Fly-In. N420P &
the Old Poop in Kingsport's nicest MKIII, Ed in his newly recovered
Drifter, Vince in his much tweaked FSII, and Dave in his new AirCam.
Excellent flight with good friends, good facility up there, and very
friendly and helpful people at the Kolb plant. Left at 4:30 and went to
Middlesboro, Ky to see the P-38 restoration, got home right at sunset. If
you missed it, you missed it, no excuses. (Met Woody, he came all the way
from Canada!)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 582 Exhaust hooks/springs |
Bill:
Let me comment on the beads in the muffler. When a buddy of mine had his
muffler Jet Hot coated they left a few blasting beads in the muffler. He put
on the muffler and flew for an hour. When he landed he realized the beads
had come out. That was good but the beads had come out and hit the prop,
which than batted them right through the fabric on the flap. Looked like
someone shot bbs through the plane. That said, Jet hot or HPC is still the
best thing out there for roatx mufflers.
I had all three pieces of my muffler and all my 582 muffler hanger
hardware coated for about $120.00.
Mark Sellers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 582 Exhaust hooks/springs |
In a message dated 9/25/99 3:54:53 PM, Cavuontop(at)aol.com writes:
>When he landed he realized the beads
>had come out. That was good but the beads had come out and hit the prop,
>
>which than batted them right through the fabric on the flap. Looked like
>
>someone shot bbs through the plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>has any body ever seen a ultrastar or firestar with a Subaru engine on it.I
>had a motor out last week with cyuna 2 02 (burned piston) had no warning
>made a good landing in a soy bean field. airplane can still be used. but I
>don't want a two stroke engine any more my nerves cant take off field
>landings any more. I have a EA 71 1600cc Subaru engine that weighs 132 lbs
>ready to run that I can put on my plane this will add about 72 lbs to my
>plane . up to 325 lbs I know that im only going to be getting 447
>performance but it is the cheapest way to get back in the air. I have
>flown this engine on a skylight and it works super. and only uses two GPH.
>Am I dreaming to big of a dream. Is it possible to do this? I know that I
>can get the C G right, this will make my gross wt 540lbs
I would check with the "Old" Kolb guys about the frame be fore I would do
something like that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
| Subject: | Trailer for Kolb Firestar |
I'm looking for a used trailer for a Firestar, if anyone knows of one please
let me know Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for the guy at shoestring |
Just checking to see if the guy from shoestring is on here. I'm not sure but
believe his name was Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/26/99 3:47:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GeoR38 writes:
<< << Left at 4:30 and went to
Middlesboro, Ky to see the P-38 restoration, got home right at sunset. If
you missed it, you missed it, no excuses. (Met Woody, he came all the way
from Canada!)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) >>
I would have loved to attend the Kolb get to gether, but I have never flown
more than 100 miles, and there is no support group around here near Akron
Ohio ........... GeoR38 >>
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Full-name: GeoR38
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 03:47:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fly-In
In a message dated 9/25/99 9:54:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rpike(at)preferred.com writes:
<< Left at 4:30 and went to
Middlesboro, Ky to see the P-38 restoration, got home right at sunset. If
you missed it, you missed it, no excuses. (Met Woody, he came all the way
from Canada!)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) >>
I would have loved to attend the Kolb get to gether, but I have never flown
more than 100 miles, and there is no support group around here near Akron
Ohio ........... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 582 Exhaust hooks/springs |
In a message dated 9/26/99 3:43:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GeoR38 writes:
<<
which than batted them right through the fabric on the flap. Looked like
someone shot bbs through the plane. That said, Jet hot or HPC is still the
best thing out there for roatx mufflers.
I had all three pieces of my muffler and all my 582 muffler hanger
hardware coated for about $120.00.
Mark Sellers >>
I had mine done after 5 years and plenty of rust to cover and had no problem
with beads or bbs or any of that dangerous stuff. The outfit that did mine
was in lower Akron Ohio and I have been very pleased. Supposedly I have added
5 years life to my old 1991 - 2 piece muffler. I had it done just last
year. We shall see how it protects...so far so good!....I did put on new
springs and new retaining nuts and shocks, though.
GeoR38 >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BILLBEAM(at)aol.com |
George,
The fly in at Kolb in London was a super event. Bruce, Brian, Serf, Travis and
all the others at Kolb really put on a spread. The Bar-B-Que, baked beans, and
deserts were worth the trip.
They could not have asked for a more perfect day. Not a cloud in the sky and
winds were almost nil.
The mass fly over the "Chicken Festival" in London was exciting. I counted 13
airplanes in the parade. Guess the Londonites thought it was an attack by
killer bees.
It was great to put faces to a lot of the names on here, although I must say
some of them are downright ugly. That bunch from Kingsport/Bristol were
a rowdy lot.
I didn't count all the birds, but it looked like around 40-50. What amazed me
was the quality of some of the Kolbs. Many of them were totally show quality.
I picked up a few ideas for my Firestar.
Be sure to make plans for next year, if they have one. Bruce said he would
call it "Oshkosh South" if it gets any bigger.
Bill Beams
Firestar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Ping" <hping(at)hyperaction.net> |
Bruce, Brian
Thank you for hosting a great fly-in.
Howard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skip Staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net> |
Gents,
>I may be the last duck in the row, but I believe all this talk about
>tracktor Kolbs, everyone is refering to the LASER.
>From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
> I believe it was Homers first attempt at a 2 seater. It was build when the
>>Ultrastar was the hottest item around. Nothing happened with it and the
>>Twinstar was developed.
>> I have a photo of it some where.
The Kolb Company put out a video around the 1983-84 time frame showing off
the UltraStar with Dennis Souder doing loops, rolls and spins in the
UltraStar. As a teaser, they also showed footage of a new and soon to be
flying Kolb that had 2 seats and a tractor engine. I have no idea if any
were ever built and sold.
I flew my UltraStar for the first time in Jan '85 and have always been
happy flying with no cockpit to surround me or block my vision. Today, for
the first time, I wished that I had an enclosure. I hadn't planned to fly
in rain, but it just sort of formed up around me and I had little choice
but to keep flying on back to my home field. It wasn't hard rain, but I
did get soaked and was glad that I was wearing a full face helmet with
visor. :-)
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
To Everyone @ Kolb,
Thanks so much for a really great fly-in. Everything was perfect!
Bill Griffin
(All fired-up and ready for next year's party!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
If
>you missed it, you missed it, no excuses. (Met Woody, he came all the way
>from Canada!)
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
Nice meeting you too. We need name tags to identify us internet types. Met
a whole bunch of lurkeres and probably missed a few people. Usually
describing me as ugly as a baboons butt is not enough for positive
identification.
I would also like to thank the Kolb folks for the fine hospitality of the
day. I even got to ride in Miss P'fer. What a great flyer. I didn't even ask
to steer. I wanted to watch the old master at work. That 10 min flight was
worth the 6 hr drive. Kind of scary when you get up and don't see anything
but trees except the little patch where you came from. John and I talked
about how there is no thrill or experience like the first flight of your
first airplane. This came close. Thanks John.
We will be back next year. Maybe with the Twinstar or Andy's Mk111. The
Kolb folk have a perfect location to have a London to Paris air race.(hint)
Did you guys know ya'll have axcents. Us Canadians don't have any eh.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I had problems sending this last night, but looks like it wasn't my fault
after all. Here goes again.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Painting prep
> Let's see if we can get a thread going here, John. I'm far from an expert
> painter, and wanted to be real sure everything was GOOD when I did my door
> frames, and intake runners. The smooth portions weren't too bad, although
> tedious, but I couldn't get down into the weld and corner crevises. In
the
> past, in my limited experience, that's where problems started. So, I did
> part of mine with the bead blaster owned by my employer. The intake I
took
> to a powder coating shop nearby, and he charged me $10.00 to use his
> cabinet, and sand blast the parts. Seems like the beads did a good job on
> aluminum, but rusted and scaled steel needed the sand. A while back the
> concern was raised about the blasting work hardening the metal, or
somesuch.
> Several people in local shops assured me that the "shot peening" process
> takes MUCH more time and force than our clean ups will give. Maybe this
is
> overkill, but I'm very sure my paint will stick. I also tried the epoxy
> primer, and sprayed it with the little Pre-Val sprayer sold by A/C Spruce.
> I was very impressed with both. Big Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 2:11 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Painting prep
>
>
> >
> > Hello Gang:
> > My turn for the "dumb question of the day". I'm about ready to apply
> the
> > Poly Fiber Epoxy primer on the wing root rib and the drag strut braces
etc
> > that has to be done before building the wings. Does the black coating
that
> > is on the metal have to be cleaned completely off or just any rusting
that
> > may be present. I bought a scotch brite type wheel that can be chucked
up
> in
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Douglas <ddouglas(at)coastside.net> |
| Subject: | Facet Fuel Pump Info |
Hey Builders!
I have some information about the Facet fuel pumps used to transfer fuel
in our airplanes. To support the Pillar Point Avionics "Smart Switch"
Fuel Pump Controller, we have tested threee different models of Facet
pump: the 40171, the 40105, and the 40106. The differences fall into
two distinct categories that relate to pump-off forward and reverse
leakage flows.
Physically, the 40105 and 40
The Facet 40171 pump is the type sold by Stoddard-Hamilton Aircraft ,
Inc. (360-495-8533) to serve as a transfer pump for transferring fuel
from the auxiliary tanks to the main tanks. The 40171 costs about $54
each. The Facet 40105 and 40106 are sold by numerous suppliers,
including Aircraft Spruce and Specialties (800-824-1930 (west);
800-831-2949 (east)), Chief Aircraft (800-447-3408), Wicks
(800-221-9425) and others and typically used in the Zenith and other
aircraft for transferring fuel from an aux tank to a header tank. The
40105/6 pumps cost about $28 to $32 each.
Physically, the 40105 and 40106 are identical. Both Chief Aircraft and
Aircraft Spruce picture these pumps in their catalogs. The 40171 looks
slightly different than the 40105 / 40106 models in that the inlet and
outlet ends of the pump are about 1/4 inch longer than the 40105 / 40106
to accommodate the check and foot valves. (I haven't found any pictures
of the 40171.) Functionally, there is a world of difference between the
40171 and the 40105 / 40106.
All three model pumps have a "lift" capability and can draw fuel from
at least 3-feet. All three move the fuel at about 0.5 gal/min, or about
30 gal/h when they are operating.
In the "OFF" state, however, the differences between the pumps become
more obvious. At a 30-inch head pressure, the 40105 and 40106 pumps
have a forward "leak" rate or drain rate of about 15 gal/h. These pumps
thus flow freely in the forward direction at about one-hald the pumping
rate.... In the reverse direction, the 40105 and 40106 drain backwards
at between 0.05 ga/h to about 0.25 gal/hr, with a mean value over a
dozen tests with four different pumps of about 0.1 gal/h. (As a point
of reference, 0.1 gal/h is about one drop per second). Compare these
numbers to the 40171 pump, which showed no detectable leakage in the
"OFF" state in either the forward or reverse directions over several
hours.
The utilization implications are pretty clear: If your "from" tank is
higher that the "to" tank, you need the 40171 pump to prevent your
"from" fuel from draining into your "to" tank. If your "from" and "to"
tanks are at about the same level, you should still use the 40171 pump
to prevent an exchange of fuel. If your "from" tank is lower than your
"to" tank, you can use any of the pumps described, but if you use the
40105 or 40106, you should use a check valve on the outlet side of the
pump to present your "to" tank from draining back into your "from"
tank. Wicks lists a check valve at about $24, so cost-wise the 40171
may represent a better bargin because it has the checks built into
them....
Pillar Point Avionics offers fuel pump controllers for all of these
pumps. For the 40171 pump, PPAv provides the XFR-12-2-5F model
controller; for the 40105 and 40106 pumps, PPAv provides the
XFR-12-2-5G model controller. We developed the "G" model when we found
that the operating characteristics of the 40105 and 40106 were just
different enough from the 40171 to make control of those pumps with the
"F"-model Smart Switch less reliable than we wanted.
If you have a PPAv controller and are building a GlaStar or another
airplane that uses the 40171 pump(s), the original production "F" model
will be just fine. If you have the 40105 or 40106 pumps, you will need
the "G" model controller. If you need the "G" model controller and have
NOT been contacted by PPAv, then please contact me by email at
mailto:ddouglas(at)ppavionics.com or by fax (650-726-9567) or by telephone
(650-740-1516).
You can identify the model by looking at the mounting tab on the pump.
One side of the mounting slot will be stamped "40" and the other side
will be stamped "105", 106" or "171". If you have a different model
pump and want to use the PPAv Smart Switch Fuel Pump Controller to
reduce your aux fuel management workload, please contact us. You can
read about the PPAv Controller at
http://www.ppavionics.com
Dennis Douglas
Pillar Point Avionics, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/26/99 8:50:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BILLBEAM(at)aol.com
writes:
<< It was great to put faces to a lot of the names on here, although I must
say
some of them are downright ugly. That bunch from Kingsport/Bristol were
a rowdy lot.
I didn't count all the birds, but it looked like around 40-50. What amazed me
was the quality of some of the Kolbs. Many of them were totally show quality.
I picked up a few ideas for my Firestar.
Be sure to make plans for next year, if they have one. Bruce said he would
call it "Oshkosh South" if it gets any bigger. >>
To have missed out on pure ugliness, is truly a great loss...hopefully my
disgusting physiognomy will contribute to the melee next time .... I had met
Bruce at Oshkosh this year and he appointed me "in charge of the list of the
list" . Unfortunately, I was the only one on it for the single day that I was
there!!.... Lotsa fun, and thanks for the reviewofwhahoppind there!!
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darren L Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org> |
| Subject: | Fw: Kolb-List Digest: 09/24/99 |
----------
> From: Darren L Smalec <smald(at)shianet.org>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 09/24/99
> Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 12:59 PM
>
>
>
> >Can someone tell me what the correct gear oil for a 377 rotax gear
> box. I
> thought 80/90 weight , but someone said 140 Thanks<
Randy:
Don't know for Rotax, but my Nova box(2SI) uses 80/90. I used 140
once, and on inspection for leak, found a bearing that had spun it's
outer race in the case, not much, but could see spin marks. The
bearing
was tight, and was replaced, and I suspect the heavy oil attributed to
this.
My recommendation?? Use the proper viscosity SYNTHETIC gear oil. I
was told that synthetic is used helicopter gear cases.
Fly safe! Darren Smalec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4-stroke Engines |
> I may be the last duck in the row, but I believe all this talk about
> tracktor Kolbs, everyone is refering to the LASER.
> Just my two cents worth.
>
> Dave / Firestar II, Full Lotus monofloat anphib.
>
Dave and Kolbers:
Woody is correct. There was a prototype Kolb tractor prior
to the Laser.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hey Guys:
Got home a couple hours ago from
London,..................Kentucky, that is.........
Had a much better flight coming home than going, even with
the low ceilings and rain. At least I had no head wind, to
deviate from planned course many times, zig zagging thru the
mountains (most tops obscured) looking for light spots thru
the rain.
The first Kolb Flyin was a tremendous success!!! A lot of
hard work was done by the good folks at Kolb to prepare for
it. We had a good turn out, lots of Kolbs of all kinds,
along with other ultralights and GA aircraft. I flew Miss
P'fer almost 9 hrs hauling people who could fit in the left
seat. She wasn't built to haul passengers, as her primary
mission, so if you are a real big guy or gal, we can't shoe
horn you in. I got Brian Blackwood in but after I got in,
we could not move the control stick. hehehe That is a
prerequisite for flight.
The largest flight of Kolbs ever, flew over the Chicken
Festival in London, Ky, Saturday evening. We had a ball.
Breakfast and coffee was provided, free gratis Saturday and
Sunday, had hot dogs for lunch Sat, had to spring for hot
dogs ourselves, but Saturday night we had some great BBQ
sandwiches, BBQ beans, and scrumdidilyumptious homemade
deserts. Then live entertainment, followed by some serious
BS in the Shop which required hip boots for protection.
Yesterday I flew over and found, after a couple days
searching with the wrong coordinates, "Pucker Patch"
International Airport. What a beauty, nestled in the
Kentucky mountains, and I do mean nestled. I had Brian's
son Erick in the MK III with me and Brian was in the Sling
Shot. While Howard Ping watched from a safe vantage point
on the ground, we drug the strip several times from all
feasible directions. Since I had Erick, 12 yrs old,
addicted on flight like most of us old timers, I had no
intentions of attempting a landing. However, Brian landed a
little hot, with one brake, and had to use the overrun to
stop without incident, although a little bumpy. He had no
trouble getting out.
Was great to see everyone on the List who attended and all
the other folks as well. I think you all are a great
bunch. We have a common tie that makes us special with our
little airplanes and flying. I could feel it in the air
this weekend.
I got my first ever flight in any kind of airplane in 1946
or so. My oldest brother Allen took me flying in an Aroneca
(sp) Champ. Yesterday I got my second flight in a Champ, I
got to solo it. Was a very special flight for me, even
though I am not much of a Champ pilot. I can log 10 or 15
landings in two attempts, if ya know what I mean.
Good to be back home again safely.
john h (MK III 1302.0 airframe/1070.5 engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 09/26/99 |
To GeoR38(at)aol.com, Live in Akron ,have 13hrs on my FS-2.Where do you operate
From?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 09/26/99 |
In a message dated 9/27/99 11:59:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ZepRep251(at)aol.com writes:
<< To GeoR38(at)aol.com, Live in Akron ,have 13hrs on my FS-2.Where do you
operate
From?
>>
have firestar KX, the first one I think, and I fly out of a private 2100 ft
"yard" in Champion, I'm originally from Warren and we moved over here a
coupla years ago.... where are you? ....I live in Goodyear heights now on
lindell st
GeoR38
ps. glad to hear that I'm not the only Kolb around!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Listers,
Try www.wunderground.com
It has all sortsa good wx stuff. Enter any city. And further down you
can get an hr-by hr of that city's wx---even by minute!
And much, much, more. enjoy w/o flames bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 09/27/99 |
GeoR38,Live in Portage Lakes, GaryAman 644-1174 call evenings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGrooms511(at)aol.com |
Dell;
The nose rising on a slip if you do nothing to prevent it is perfectly
normal. I always caution my students that you can expect that to happen, and
it is very important to prevent it, because a slip induced spin is a very
nasty event, from which you probably will not recover. Before you begin the
slip, note your airspeed, and your nose attitude relative to the horizon.
When you begin the slip, keep the nose at that same position on the horizon,
and do not rely on the airspeed indicator, because it is not reliable when
the wind strikes it at an angle. You don't want to drop the nose lower than
the noted position, because the increase in airspeed is what you are trying
to prevent in the first place.
W Grooms CFII CFIG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JVanLaak(at)aol.com |
Friends,
Although I am new to this list I am a great fan of Kolbs and built a Firestar
1 and flew it very happily for about 8 years. Then I sold it and bought a
Rans S-12 (already built and at a great price) to teach my kids to fly. I
mention this because my Firestar exhibited the nose up characteristic in some
slips but to be honest I don't remember under what circumstances. It was
completely controllable, just a bit unusual. But the S-12 has the nose rise
an alarming amount when I slip it left wing down, and a bit less when
slipping right wing down. When I say alarming, I mean the nose bobs above
the horizon and the airspeed plummets. I have 4500 hours in 120 types from
the Hummer to jets (F-106, A-10, F-18), so I know a little something about
flying, but this is very unusual. My S-12 typically has the CG about 20% of
chord when I have done this and the flaps are either up or only down one
notch (about 20 degrees).
Bottom line is that these are experimental planes and you need to do your own
tests to make sure you are safe and comfortable with what how it behaves.
BTW - that Firestar was one fine airplane! Even so, the later owners beat it
up and it was eventually retired to a school somewhere. Oh well.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I would avoid slips with flaps on the Kolb. The Kolb does have a low
stabilator position relative to the wing but the rudder might still be
blanked. One could test for blanking by do tests at altitude sufficient to
recover from "unusual attitudes". If blanking of the rudder/verticle is
happening the aircraft would yaw or slew and if elevator blanking is
happening there would be a pitch change--probably a pitch down. I once owned
a Yankee, slipping manuvers with flaps (or even without) blanked the elevator
and it would pitch over and was very unpredictable. Since I have no data on
Spins in boom fuselage aircraft and pusher types I would avoid any manuver
that would lead to a spin developing inadvertantly such as aggresive slipping
with flaps, crossed controls at high angle of attack, seriously uncoordinated
skidding turns at low airspeed and accelerated stall manuvers with
uncoordinated controls. Has anyone spun a Kolb accidently or on purpose and
can report on how it handled and what recovery imputs were needed? How much
effort was required to induce the spin and what entry was used? JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
John Hauck , and Clif Stripling , anybody else who's done it...
What method did you guys use to build a fairing around the rear of the M3
cage (around the aileron tubes) I saw on the Slingshot cages at the Kolb
Fly-in this weekend that they have tabs welded on to attach the fairing but
what did you guys do???
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear fairing |
> what did you guys do???
>
> Jeremy Casey
> jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
Jeremy and Gang:
I drilled the two vertical fuselage tubes and pop riveted
the sheet metal fairing. Mine was after the fact, original
fabric over tube bracing was drummed to death at 100.0 hrs.
Too late to weld tabs. I do not like drilling holes in the
fuselage tubes, but in my case, I have had no problem from
it. I am a stickler for treating all the 4130 with tube
seal plus sealing any SS pop rivets to keep out the water.
Recommend welding tabs in your case Jeremy.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Heritch" <heritch(at)connecti.com> |
Haven't a clue as to what type of battery to use on a 912 powered Slingshot!
Motorcycle bat? Lawn Mower bat? Energizer bat? Full size real airplane bat?
Recommended brands of battery would be helpful.
Additionally, should I fabricate a tray and/or box for the battery, or can I
just strap it to the frame?
Appreciate your input.
Ian Heritch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Kruchten <lawrence.kruchten(at)gte.net> |
3rd request PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR E MAIL LIST. THANK YOU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oil ooze problem is sol-ved |
Hi Doc and Gang:
Doc wrote:
<< I now find I only make it finger-tight and use a safety wire to assure it's
placement. It's amazing, but this "not-so-tight" aspect doesn't ooze ( Or I
should say it hasn't oozed yet) >>
(Re. oil tank oozing around threads-582)
Your suggestion worked!! Eliminated the last gorilla half turn on the cap and
it doesn't ooze any oil from around the threads. Clean as a whistle. Shows
the power of the Kolb List.
Thanks Doc
Bill George
Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin
See it at:Bill
George's Kolb Pg.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Haven't a clue as to what type of battery to use on a 912 powered Slingshot!
> Ian Heritch
>
>
Ian and Kolbers:
I use a 14 amp motorcycle battery from WalMart. It is a 14
AL or something like that. Can't remember perzackly, but 14
amp bat will crank the 912 down to about 32F if it doesn't
sit too long, like several days between use.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Still crazy after all these years |
>Hey Guys:
>
>Got home
>Had a much better flight coming home than going, even with
>the low ceilings and rain. At least I had no head wind, to
>deviate from planned course many times, zig zagging thru the
>mountains (most tops obscured) looking for light spots thru
>the rain.
Flew home Sunday morning at 5,000 ft MSL over those same mountains.
Must have been fun picking you way thru there on Monday, not exactly like
there are many flat spots you can hit even from where I was.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Stroberg" <dgstro(at)albemarlenet.com> |
Ian,
In my Firestar ll, I'm using a Power Sonic sealed lead acid battery I got
from Lockwood Aviation. The thing can be mounted in any position without
any leakage. Mine is under the second seat, laying on it's side. Been
there for two years with no problems. At 18 amps, it spins my 503 almost
fast enough to taxi with. I'm sure it would do about the same for a 912.
If you'd like a shot of the installation, let me know.
Regards,
Dave/Firestar ll/Full Lotus amphib
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Heritch <heritch(at)connecti.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 9:52 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Batterys
>
>Haven't a clue as to what type of battery to use on a 912 powered
Slingshot!
>Motorcycle bat? Lawn Mower bat? Energizer bat? Full size real airplane bat?
>
>Recommended brands of battery would be helpful.
>
>Additionally, should I fabricate a tray and/or box for the battery, or can
I
>just strap it to the frame?
>
>Appreciate your input.
>
>Ian Heritch
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "youngblood" <barry(at)hcis.net> |
manuvers with
>uncoordinated controls. Has anyone spun a Kolb accidently or on purpose and
>can report on how it handled and what recovery imputs were needed? How much
>effort was required to induce the spin and what entry was used? JR
I have spun my FSII several times. Just stall and kick full rudder. Spins
like a top. Really a thrill but I stop with one turn by just releasing
pressure on stick and rudder then pull out of dive. Warning though, my
engine quit once while recovering which I figured was because of negative
G's on the carbs. I was near my airstrip but I haven't done any since. May
get up the nerve again someday.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil ooze problem is sol-ved |
>
>Hi Doc and Gang:
>
>Doc wrote:
><< I now find I only make it finger-tight and use a safety wire to assure it's
>placement. It's amazing, but this "not-so-tight" aspect doesn't ooze ( Or I
>should say it hasn't oozed yet) >>
>
>(Re. oil tank oozing around threads-582)
>Your suggestion worked!! Eliminated the last gorilla half turn on the cap and
>it doesn't ooze any oil from around the threads. Clean as a whistle. Shows
>the power of the Kolb List.
>
>Thanks Doc
>
>Bill George
>Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin
>
On the oil cap on my 532 center section reservoir,
the cap is old enough that it is slightly deformed,
and oozed enough that I normally lose about 1/8" of oil every 2 hours.
Wrapped the threaded part of the oil cap neck with gasoline proof teflon tape,
and flew to Chestnut Knolls and back without the oil level changing a bit.
A little over 5 hours with stops and detours along the way.
Using a little bit of safety wire to hold the cap on, just finger tight.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear fairing |
Hi Jeremy,
I welded steel tabs to the cage for mounting the rear fairing. Will attach it
w/riv-nuts for removal. This space will also be where I mount the electronics
for the Subaru.
I also welded tabs to the rear window brackets so the windows will be easy to
remove. I've got tabs all over the place!!!!
I bought a bag of stamped and finished seel tabs complete with a small hole
already drilled in the middle. Can't remember the name, but | got a lot for
not much ($25?). Saves a lot of time. If you want, I'll dig up the name and
address.
It was nice meeting you at the fly-in. Good luck with your project.
Bill Griffin
Montgomery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Land anywhere? |
David,
Go to a regular airport, where most of the planes have one propeller, and
ask for the guy they call the chief flight instructor - he'll be able to
help you with the landing options.
-----Original Message-----
From: Teal, David <Teald(at)diebold.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Land anywhere?
>
>Here's another dumb question from someone who has never flown, or taken any
>lessons, but is champing at the bit to get started: can you just take off
>and land anywhere or does it have to be a regular airport. I know a couple
>of people that take off from their back yard (a big back yard), but what
>about landing for a stretch break, to explore the wilderness, etc.? Do you
>have to get permission from someone? There's a college close by that has a
>really big grassy area that would be perfect for touch-n-go's, but I'm not
>sure if permission is needed.
>
>Thanks,
>D.C. Teal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mk-3 Seat mounting |
Hi Gang:
Ordered some Fiberglas seats for the bird without having a clue as to how I'm
going to mount them. I know John H, has some nice seats but I believe they
were installed while the plane was being built. Naturally, there is no access
from the bottom and I want to be able to easily remove them for access to
wiring, etc. Would like to avoid drilling holes in tubing.
Any comments, pix, diagrams will be appreciated.
Bill George
Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Yates" <johny(at)epix.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:53 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Rough idle
Hello Terry
The 447 is notorious for not idling as well as the other Rotax engines 2100
to 2200 rpm is about right to keep the engine running smooth and not shaking
the airplane. I have used 1150 as a limit for EGT some times on finial when
the power is pulled back the temp will show 1200 just for a moment. so shoot
for 1150 max 1200 EGT.
Hope this helps.
John
>
>Since I first fired up the 447 Rotax on my new FireFly it has been
>impossible to get it to idle smoothly. I have done everything that more
>experienced owners have told me. Talked to the Rotax dealer at Oshkosh.
>
>I'm swinging a Tennessee wood prop, 66" dia. x 30 pitch, supplied by
>Kolb. When first operating the engine, had to turn out air mixture
>screw to 2 1/2 turns to stop the shaking. Also had to keep the rpm at
>2200 or above. Have since installed a smaller, #40, idle jet and have
>been able to turn the air mixture screw to 3/4 to 1 turn open for best
>idle, but must still maintain 2200 rpm. Still not smooth like the other
>guys when theirs are at idle. Engine runs fine at all other settings,
>staying within cylinder temp limits Rotax recommends.
>
>That the other question. I am getting conflicting information on
>exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
>Could use some good guide lines.
>
>Thanks: Terry K.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
A
>3rd request PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR E MAIL LIST. THANK YOU
Read the footnotes at the bottom of the page to find out how to unsubscribe.
>
>
>
>
>
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)tetric.com> |
> ...I saw on the Slingshot cages at the Kolb
> >Fly-in this weekend that they have tabs welded on to attach the fairing but
> >what did you guys do???
>
> Jeremy,
>
> On the earlier models, Kolb had a welded tail cone frame that was covered
> with Stits. Constant beating of the prop caused cracks in the paint
> surface (or worse - I don't know). Anyway, they discontinued the tail cone
> before I purchase my kit. I saw John's plane and liked what he had done
> and decided to do something similar. I had the wing gap aluminum sheer web
> material left over (I use Lexan instead there) so I made a pattern of the
> sides with stiff paper and bent the aluminum to an acute angle (had a guy
> help me that had a bending brake). Leave some extra material on the bottom
> curve and the forward edge so you can fine tune the curved edge fit after
the
> bend and the vertical edge after that. The top was made out of a scrap of
> the thinner Lexan with bent down edges to form a cap. The cap was attached
> to the sides with rivets. I braced across the bottom (definitely
> necessary) of the cutouts for the aileron bellcrank/arms with aluminum
angle scrap
> for strength and as stops for the ailerons. I fastened the whole thing
> with 3 rivets on each side. I added silicon caulk in each hole drilled
> into the frame. I am glad to hear that they are adding tabs to the rear
> now for those that want to add a tail cone.
Odd thing happened - I have been receiving messages from the kolb list, but
this post just bounced saying I was not a member. I just re-subscribed and
will see if it will be posted this time.
>
> Later,
>
> --
> Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
> 801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
> Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
> (830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
>
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
(830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 Seat mounting |
I agree with the part about not poking holes in that beautifully designed
Kolb airframe. My solution has been to use clamps around the tubes for anchor
points. A flat plate connected to three good anchor points will usually
provide a fairly firm mounting surface for whatever. I made most of those I
have used from ~1/2" wide .032 6061 Al using a very simple bending jig. They
now hold my BRS handle, cockpit enclosure, brake handle etc. I have tested
them and found them to be very tough and they do distribute the load over the
airframe tubes very nicely when carefully placed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 447 aftermuffler |
Got a question for everyone out there. I asked earlier with very little
response. Does a aftermuffler damage a 447? My engine siezed at 190 hours.
The pto rod bearing went and wasted everything on the bottom. There was a
lot of carbon on the underside of the pistons and walls. There was a little
carbon on top but not that bad. It was running a little lean maybe. I also
found out the ratio rite mixer was not correct at the 50:1 mark at one gal
through two and half gals. That means it was mixing about seven gals of gas
per quart of pensoil. Any help out there. I would appreciate any comments.
thanks. G'day Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 447 aftermuffler |
>
>Got a question for everyone out there. I asked earlier with very little
>response. Does a aftermuffler damage a 447?
> My engine siezed at 190 hours.
>The pto rod bearing went and wasted everything on the bottom. There was a
>lot of carbon on the underside of the pistons and walls. There was a little
>carbon on top but not that bad. It was running a little lean maybe. I also
>found out the ratio rite mixer was not correct at the 50:1 mark at one gal
>through two and half gals. That means it was mixing about seven gals of gas
>per quart of pensoil. Any help out there. I would appreciate any comments.
>thanks. G'day Ted
I wouldn't think so. I put a Rotax aftermuffler on my 532, and didn't
even need to change the jetting. I would suspect too much oil.
I mix 13 ounces to 5 gallons of gas, and 16 ounces to 6 gallons of gas.
That is not exactly 50:1, but it is close, and has worked OK for over
17 years in various Rotax engines, with consistent EGT's.
Seven gallons of gas per quart would (of the top off my head, not using ANY
math)
probably be somewhere between 30:1 to 40:1. That would account for carbon
everywhere, and if the engine was jetted for 50:1, then it would also be
way lean.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 447 aftermuffler |
Seven gallons of gas per quart would (of the top off my
head, not using ANY
> math)
> probably be somewhere between 30:1 to 40:1. That would account for carbon
> everywhere, and if the engine was jetted for 50:1, then it would also be
> way lean.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
Hey Guys:
Richard knows from where he speaks. 50 to 1 is 32 oz and
12.5 gal. or 16 oz to 6.25 gal. I still remember that and
it has been a long time since I have mixed any cept for my
old outboard. Ever wonder why outboard motors have 6 gal
tanks??? Stands to reason, doesn't it. A qt in 7 gal is 28
to 1. Oil rich and fuel on the lean side.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a friend who works on boat motors, he get a lot of work from people
who want to be nice to the engine and give it extra oil. They carbon up and
eat the bearings.
So if it calls for 50:1 Then use 50:1 The engineers know what they are
doing.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
I may not have made myself clear on the oil mixing cup. When you mix one gal
of gas you measure it at the 50:1 mark on the cup. Okay. In all actuality,
it is not enough oil! To get the proper measurement, you have to add oil to
the 44:1 mark on the mixing cup. That means I would be fuel rich and oil
short. Over a course of a long time, would it make a difference.
By the way, I took the aftermuffler off and it sounded the same! I put the
447 needle, 15k2 (original needle) back in but had to put in on the #1 notch
which means it is down all the way. The needle I took out (had 1150 EG) was
an 11g2 and was on the 2nd notch. the 15 gave me 1050 on the eg. I just
dont like being on the last notch but I guess that does not matter. CH may
be just a little cooler but it was hard to tell.
From what I found out, the bearing just got tired and quit. They do that I
guess. It was making a little more noise for about a week but I did not have
any idea what it was. Now I do. Thanks all for the imput. by the way, the
aftermuffler had some carbon buildup in it but it looked kind of redish -
believe that to be gas aditive. No heavy black carbon at all.
Thanks again. Tell me if I am doing this wrong. G'day Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed |
The manual says 85 mph max and 75 cruise for the Mk-3 with 582. After several
GPS speed checks working backwards to TAS then IAS I get the following:
At 5800-6000 rpm at 3000 ft. altitude indicated (corrected) airspeed is 63
mph. Full throttle level flight yields a corrected 85 mph. My bird has half
doors. Curious as to what speeds are obtained with 582 in various
cockpit/faired configurations.
This may be elementary for some, but here is The GPS Method:
Make several upwind and downwind legs at the same indicated airspeed and
record ground speed. Take the averages of several runs. This will equal your
True Air Speed because Ground Speed equals True Air Speed in zero wind. Take
a "whiz wheel" and use the Temp and Altitude scale to input your flight
cinditions. Observe the True Airspeed number you got from your GPS and read
the indicated. Compare that with what you had read on your ASI and you will
know exactly how accurate your on board instrument is.
In my case my ASI reads 11 mph high at cruise speeds. TAS is 4 mph higher
than IAS at 3000 ft at 21 degrees C.
Obviously my bird is s-l-o-w. But maybe it isn't any slower than most.
Bill George
Mk-3 562 "C" Powerfin at 13.0 degrees, 6400 climb, 6800 WOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed |
I am getting 65 mph at 56-5800 and 85 mph at 6800,
Rotax 532, B box, 66" 2-blade IVO. I noticed the airplane
flies faster at lower throttle settings after I trimmed the top of
the windshield, and got the flaps reflexed to optimum.
It will also fly easily at lower throttle settings since the mods.
Oddly enough, it did not help the top speed much.
An old A&P in the area commented on comparing GPS speeds in opposite
directions against indicated air speeds: he suggested just flying an equal
triangle
and taking the average of all three legs. His reasoning was that
by flying a triangle, you would balance out upwind, downwind, and
crosswind. Sounds too good (and too simple) to be true. Comments?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>The manual says 85 mph max and 75 cruise for the Mk-3 with 582. After several
>GPS speed checks working backwards to TAS then IAS I get the following:
>
>At 5800-6000 rpm at 3000 ft. altitude indicated (corrected) airspeed is 63
>mph. Full throttle level flight yields a corrected 85 mph. My bird has half
>doors. Curious as to what speeds are obtained with 582 in various
>cockpit/faired configurations.
>
>This may be elementary for some, but here is The GPS Method:
>Make several upwind and downwind legs at the same indicated airspeed and
>record ground speed. Take the averages of several runs. This will equal your
>True Air Speed because Ground Speed equals True Air Speed in zero wind. Take
>a "whiz wheel" and use the Temp and Altitude scale to input your flight
>cinditions. Observe the True Airspeed number you got from your GPS and read
>the indicated. Compare that with what you had read on your ASI and you will
>know exactly how accurate your on board instrument is.
>
>In my case my ASI reads 11 mph high at cruise speeds. TAS is 4 mph higher
>than IAS at 3000 ft at 21 degrees C.
>
>Obviously my bird is s-l-o-w. But maybe it isn't any slower than most.
>
>Bill George
>Mk-3 562 "C" Powerfin at 13.0 degrees, 6400 climb, 6800 WOT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed |
Two questions. Of your calculated air speed, where is the air temperature
taken; at ground level or at flight level; inside or outside the cockpit?
I'm still calculating TSI.
Michael
>From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed
>Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:49:05 EDT
>
>
>The manual says 85 mph max and 75 cruise for the Mk-3 with 582. After
>several
>GPS speed checks working backwards to TAS then IAS I get the following:
>
>At 5800-6000 rpm at 3000 ft. altitude indicated (corrected) airspeed is 63
>mph. Full throttle level flight yields a corrected 85 mph. My bird has half
>doors. Curious as to what speeds are obtained with 582 in various
>cockpit/faired configurations.
>
>This may be elementary for some, but here is The GPS Method:
>Make several upwind and downwind legs at the same indicated airspeed and
>record ground speed. Take the averages of several runs. This will equal
>your
>True Air Speed because Ground Speed equals True Air Speed in zero wind.
>Take
>a "whiz wheel" and use the Temp and Altitude scale to input your flight
>cinditions. Observe the True Airspeed number you got from your GPS and read
>the indicated. Compare that with what you had read on your ASI and you will
>know exactly how accurate your on board instrument is.
>
>In my case my ASI reads 11 mph high at cruise speeds. TAS is 4 mph higher
>than IAS at 3000 ft at 21 degrees C.
>
>Obviously my bird is s-l-o-w. But maybe it isn't any slower than most.
>
>Bill George
>Mk-3 562 "C" Powerfin at 13.0 degrees, 6400 climb, 6800 WOT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed |
In a message dated 10/2/99 4:44:32 PM, firehawk54(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Two questions. Of your calculated air speed, where is the air temperature
taken; at ground level or at flight level; inside or outside the cockpit?
I'm still calculating TSI.
Michael >>
OAT in this case was a bit of a wag but has to be pretty close. Since I don't
have an OAT gauge I used the airport surface temp off the AWOS and used a
normal adiabatic rate of 2 deg C per thousand feet. Since I was around a
thousand feet above the airport I just used 2 degrees less than field temp.
Bill g.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 Actual Cruise Speed |
In a message dated 10/2/99 4:13:13 PM, rpike(at)preferred.com writes:
<< An old A&P in the area commented on comparing GPS speeds in opposite
directions against indicated air speeds: he suggested just flying an equal
triangle
and taking the average of all three legs. His reasoning was that
by flying a triangle, you would balance out upwind, downwind, and
crosswind. Sounds too good (and too simple) to be true. Comments? >>
Would probably yield similar results I expect. GPS is so accurate that it
might not be necessary. Thanks for your numbers Richard.
Bill G.
________________________________________________________________________________
1992 Firestart KXP for sale. 503 DCDI. 200 hours. Always hangared. Full
windshield. Wood prop, spare (new) 2-blade 66" Ivo. Independent brakes.
6.2 gallons fuel. BRS/VLS 750. Very good condition, flown weekly. $9500.
P. Straley, Charlotte, NC (704 347 0955; Tusky(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kegebeins" <paak(at)csinet.net> |
| Subject: | cabin heat for 912 powered mark 3 |
I would like to know if anyone has used any plumbing to and heat to the
cabin of the mk 3. Any information or materials used routing radiator fans
(or heater core). Any info is appreciated
________________________________________________________________________________
Fellow Kolbers:
I put a notice of my bird for sale on the list yesterday. Mistake in the
phone number, it is 704 347 0966 (not 0955). Just flew today, landed in
gusts.
P. Straley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hoverdude8(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Condition of the list?? |
stop sending junk to me
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hoverdude8(at)aol.com |
stop sending me junk mail Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hoverdude8(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: cabin heat for 912 powered mark 3 |
stop sending me junk mail Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Fresh meat here! :)
Mike Brown
Olympic Ultralights
Port Angeles Washington
3000+ hrs in U/L`s
Background:
I recently purchased a new Firestar II form the owner that ground
looped it. I rebuilt the plane one end to the other, new tail tube,
wingtips, tailfeathers, gearlegs, and straightened the fuselage.
The plane is basically finished, I have test flown it, and herein lie
the questions:
1) In a banked turn, (say a 45 degree right turn) pushing the rudder to
the left has ZERO effect! Nada. Zip. Same thing in left turns. I had to
use the ailerons to level the wings. You would swear that there was no
rudder back there! Other than that the plane flew hands off, climbed
great (503 + Ivo), has a better glide than any U/L I have flown(25 or
30), basically a fantastic plane. So... what is with the rudder?
Is this a "normal Kolb thing" or is there a fix?
2) Gap seals. What is the opinion for FULL seals on everything(ailerons,
and all the tail feathers)?
3) Tail wheel steering. Very anemic. Do people use stiffer springs, or
convert to a Matco or Scott tailwheel. (this is a very attractive plane
with custom paint and accessories, so when it is offered for sale, we
want it perfect).
4) Most important(besides the weak rudder):
Floats.... Does anyone out there in KOLBLAND have Full Lotus floats on
a Firestar II??? We have a new set ready to install, but before we fab
our own mounting system, would love to hear from anyone that has already
been there, done that.
If you are asking why I am going to sell it; I am 6' 4" and DO NOT fit
inside the thing. Bummer, cause it is a Grand machine. I have to scoot
so far fwd to get in front of the wing, that my knees are touching my
chin(well... almost).
Thanks ahead of time for any constructive help on this!
Regards,
Mike Brown
Olympic Ultralights L.L.C.
Lynx Communications
Vortex Generators
Full Lotus
Ivo
BRS
Rotax Sales
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reply to New Guy |
Welcome Mike.
My experience is limitted to Firestar KXP, Mark3 and FireFly but I think that
there is some leeway in the rudder shape. I have always made sure that my
rudders are like barn doors. The person that built yours may have made it
smaller for whatever reason (looks, drag etc). I have noticed that my long
time GA flying partner always flew his FS2 fairly fast and suspect that he
did this to help get solid response from the controls.
Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat, the original builder of his
plane was about your size and he completely reworked the seat. The back seat
was eliminated and a set of rails were installed so as to lower the pilot's
seat. The new seat was a plastic scoop chair angled to accomodate his size.
It solved the problem but was a lot of work. Incidentally my partner passed
away recently and the plane is for sale.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabin heat for 912 powered mark 3 |
To all members of the Kolb-list I apoligize for this..
HEY _____(edited for your reading enjoyment) WHO CAN"T GET OFF THE LIST!!!
HAVE YOU TRIED THE UNSUBSCRIBE ADDRESS ON THE BOTTOM OF EVERY PIECE OF
"JUNK" MAIL YOU GET? THAT MIGHT WORK!!! Matt Dralle has went to enormous
efforts to make this the easiest running list on the web (and I'm subscribed
to a ton) and there is no list that is easier to unsubscribe from than his.
Now go to www.matronics.com/subscribe and follow the instructions. The
address says subscribe but it unsubscribes too...look in to it. I've done
it twice for address changes and it works like a champ!!!
I apologize for this rant but why bomb the list with "stop sending me junk
mail" request when we CAN"T HELP YOU!!! IF you have a problem with the
automated way of getting off the list why not ask the guy who runs it for
help??? His name is Matt Dralle and his email is dralle(at)matronics.com .
Doesn't that make sense???
Said too much already , I'll shut up...
Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
>
>stop sending me junk mail Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Mike,
I can answer the rudder question. Most ultralights are "rudder" machines
and this is where the Kolb is different in that it was designed properly.
When you bank any aircraft, you want the ailerons to be the most
effective in roll control. Kolb has effectively added differential
control into their aileron design so you don't need much rudder to bank
the plane. I flew the Quicksilver that I was trained in after many hours
in my Kolb. No comparison, the ailerons on the Quick were ineffective and
this is what you don't want. The Quick is a "rudder plane" and this is
why it has so much dihedral built into the wings. Once you get used to
it, you won't want to fly anything else.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
>Fresh meat here! :)
>Mike Brown
>Olympic Ultralights
>Port Angeles Washington
>3000+ hrs in U/L`s
>Background:
> I recently purchased a new Firestar II form the owner that ground
>looped it. I rebuilt the plane one end to the other, new tail tube,
>wingtips, tailfeathers, gearlegs, and straightened the fuselage.
>The plane is basically finished, I have test flown it, and herein lie
>the questions:
>
>1) In a banked turn, (say a 45 degree right turn) pushing the rudder
>to
>the left has ZERO effect! Nada. Zip. Same thing in left turns. I had
>to
>use the ailerons to level the wings. You would swear that there was no
>rudder back there! Other than that the plane flew hands off, climbed
>great (503 + Ivo), has a better glide than any U/L I have flown(25 or
>30), basically a fantastic plane. So... what is with the rudder?
>Is this a "normal Kolb thing" or is there a fix?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat, the original builder |
of his
Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat,
Thanks Duane! I will do some measurements and see if I can fit by using
up the rear seat. Hate to get rid of it, as nice as it flies.
I verified that the rudder is within a few sq inches of the plans. Maybe
it needs to be bigger/taller?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/5/99 12:07:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
motavia(at)olypen.com writes:
<< 3) Tail wheel steering. Very anemic. Do people use stiffer springs, or
convert to a Matco or Scott tailwheel. >>
Mine was very weak too. I bought stiffer springs at Lowe's Building Supply
and that cured the problem. Remember, the tail moment is long so it will
take a pretty wide turning radius,
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
----------
> From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Guy
> Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 9:04 AM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I can answer the rudder question. Most ultralights are "rudder" machines
> and this is where the Kolb is different in that it was designed properly.
>Mike Brown
> >Olympic Ultralights
> >Port Angeles Washington
> >3000+ hrs in U/L`s
Hi Mike,
Aren't you part of that group that offers the tabs that are supposed to
lower your stall speed? If so this would be a perfect opportunity to
install them on your plane and give a report to the group. I am very
interested. If I have the wrong person, welcome to the group anyway.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
Has anyone had to jet a 377 rotax engine down to a 160 main jet, it seems to
run rich with the stock 165 egt 1000 full throttle during climb. I fly most
of the time around 1000 MSL Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Hello Mike,
The dihydral in the wing is what allows the rudder to induce a bank.
Without dihydral, no amount of rudder will lift that wing. Kolb's minimal
dihydral gives it better roll rate & more cross wind capability at the expense
of having to continuously fly the machine & the inability to effectively raise
the wing with the rudder. A flat-wing has less directional stability &
therefore more easily turns & goes where you point it. (Many jet fighters have
negative dihydral which allows them to turn inside out, in a second & on a
dime!) A high dihydral wing is more stable, resists changing direction & flys
better/longer hands-off. You can't have both.
My 1st plane was a Maxair Hummer. It had tons of dihydral & the only
controls it had to turn were its "V" tail ruddervators. After putting ailerons
on, it still wouldn't turn without alot of rudder input. When the aileraons
were made differential (the up aileron goes up a lot & the down aileron goes
down only a little) it didn't help much at all. When the dihydral was taken out
it made an enormous difference. It was a wonderful learning experience for
me. I hope you decide to keep your FSll. Besides, it probably has already
ruined you, because once you taste the way a Kolb flies, everything else seems
like stale bread. What ever effort it takes you to get it fitted will be well
worth it & you will forever thank yourself for that decision!
...Richard Swiderski, Ocala FL (UltraStar, Mkll &
presently SlingShot)
>
>
> writes:
>
> >Fresh meat here! :)
> >Mike Brown
> >Olympic Ultralights
> >Port Angeles Washington
> >3000+ hrs in U/L`s
> >Background:
> > I recently purchased a new Firestar II form the owner that ground
> >looped it. I rebuilt the plane one end to the other, new tail tube,
> >wingtips, tailfeathers, gearlegs, and straightened the fuselage.
> >The plane is basically finished, I have test flown it, and herein lie
> >the questions:
> >
> >1) In a banked turn, (say a 45 degree right turn) pushing the rudder
> >to
> >the left has ZERO effect! Nada. Zip. Same thing in left turns. I had
> >to
> >use the ailerons to level the wings. You would swear that there was no
> >rudder back there! Other than that the plane flew hands off, climbed
> >great (503 + Ivo), has a better glide than any U/L I have flown(25 or
> >30), basically a fantastic plane. So... what is with the rudder?
> >Is this a "normal Kolb thing" or is there a fix?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Randy,
I had the 160 main jet in my 377 during the summer months one year until
I experienced a stuck ring. It ran fine, but I decided to change back to
the stock 165 and use it year 'round and my rings have not stuck. The 160
would be too lean to use during the winter and the engine will run cooler
using the 165 in the summer (richer mix). I now have the 447 and it also
uses a 165 main jet.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>
>Has anyone had to jet a 377 rotax engine down to a 160 main jet, it
>seems to
>run rich with the stock 165 egt 1000 full throttle during climb. I fly
>most
>of the time around 1000 MSL Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Thanks for the welcome, and yes, that are me, the Vortex Generator guy.
Interesting thought. I will admit that it never crossed my mind to try
the VG`s, as the problem seems so severe... I suppose it is sure worth a
try. As I tell people in my ads, "You have nothing to lose". I sure hope
that is the case :') Before I do anything drastic with the tail, I will
try a set of VG`s on the vertical stab, and let you all know the
results. In the case of a normal VG` installation, we put them on the
bottom of the horizontal stab to "POWER UP" the elevator, because you
dont want to "run out of elevator before you run out of wing".
Also, thanks for the comments and suggestions from list members. The
roll rate is fine, in fact, it makes many other U/L`s look sick(sorry,
I`m not naming them because I have "Learned not to burn"), but once you
have rolled into, say, a 45 degree bank, opposite rudder SHOULD do
SOMTHING. It is not a normal thing to use only the ailerons to roll out
of a turn, as that is too slow.
I have flown lots of Kolbs (no FSII`s tho) and they did not do this.
Anyway, I will go with heavier springs(compression type)on the tailwheel
as that is simple and cheap. I will try the gapseal on the rudder with
and without VG`s, and will give a report back, as soon as we get some
decent weather, that is.
Thanks
Mike Brown
Olympic Ultralights
>
> Hi Mike,
> Aren't you part of that group that offers the tabs that are supposed to
> lower your stall speed? If so this would be a perfect opportunity to
> install them on your plane and give a report to the group. I am very
> interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/5/99 2:08:13 PM, swidersk(at)digital.net writes:
<< The dihydral in the wing is what allows the rudder to induce a bank.
Without dihydral, no amount of rudder will lift that wing. Kolb's minimal
dihydral gives it better roll rate & more cross wind capability at the expense
of having to continuously fly the machine & the inability to effectively raise
the wing with the rudder. >>
Good observation Richard. Although not applicable to our planes, sweeping the
wings will also give you lots of roll with rudder application.
Bill George
Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin 3 blade "B"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Now there is a guy that likes his plane!
Thanks Rich!
Q: Is there a difference in the way the older Firestars are built?
Reason I ask is that the older ones I have flown didnt act like this one
at all.... I do agree with you about having to fly it all the time. Its
a bit like the S2 Pitts(the one plane I can think of off hand that you
can do aerobatics in without knowing how... just let go for 5 seconds!
Also, as you said, MOST of the U/L types out there are "rudder" planes.
It is better that way as there are a lot of people that should not have
planes without lots of dihedral...
Again, thanks,
Mike
What ever effort it takes you to get it fitted will be well
worth it & you will forever thank yourself for that decision!
...Richard Swiderski, Ocala FL (UltraStar, Mkll &
presently SlingShot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Randy,
In my opinion, 1000 degrees EGT at full throttle is an ideal temperature.
That's were you need maximum lubrication & cooling. Gas economy is not a
consideration at this point where your life is on the line & neither is excess
carbon build up since the amount of time at this setting is very
short. ... Richard Swiderski
Randy wrote:
>
> Has anyone had to jet a 377 rotax engine down to a 160 main jet, it seems to
> run rich with the stock 165 egt 1000 full throttle during climb. I fly most
> of the time around 1000 MSL Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Hey Bill You Lost Me,
1) Why is it not applicable to our planes?
2) What do you mean by "sweeping the wings"?
3) How does that make the role rate faster?
Thanks, Richard
> >>In a message dated 10/5/99 2:08:13 PM, swidersk(at)digital.net writes:
>
> << The dihydral in the wing is what allows the rudder to induce a bank.
> Without dihydral, no amount of rudder will lift that wing. Kolb's minimal
> dihydral gives it better roll rate & more cross wind capability at the expense
> of having to continuously fly the machine & the inability to effectively raise
> the wing with the rudder. >>
>
> Good observation Richard. Although not applicable to our planes, sweeping the
> wings will also give you lots of roll with rudder application.
>
> Bill George
> Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin 3 blade "B"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Good point, also, keep in mind that our wonderful instruments are not
always accurate to the "Penney". If you were to bump your jets up to
get your reading to 1100, and your EGT was reading a bit low, you might
inadvertantly be "hanging it out there" at 1200 or more.
The best way is to check your plugs color. Tie the plane up securely,
run it full bore for a couple min, then cool it down and shut it off,
check the plugs for the dry tan color you want. If they look good, leave
her alone.
We used to run our trainers at 1150 - 1200 (using FAA-PMA certified
instruments and probes) and although the planes (582`s) did go to tbo
no problem, and never needed a decarbon job, we also were right on top
of the situation at all times, were peeking in there with borescopes on
a very regular basis, and were Rotax repair center trained. When it
comes right down to it, like Richard said, for the average flier, it
aint worth pushing the "envelope". Unless you are belching sticky goop
out the exhaust and the plugs are black and wet, enjoy the "1000"
reading.
imho
Mike
Richard wrote:
>
>
> Randy,
> In my opinion, 1000 degrees EGT at full throttle is an ideal temperature.
> That's were you need maximum lubrication & cooling. Gas economy is not a
> consideration at this point where your life is on the line & neither is excess
> carbon
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/5/99 8:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
motavia(at)olypen.com writes:
<< I will try the gapseal on the rudder with
and without VG`s, and will give a report back, as soon as we get some
decent weather, that is. >>
Mike, try the VG's on the wing also; they lowered my stall speed 5 MPH.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/5/99 3:50:20 PM, swidersk(at)digital.net writes:
<< Hey Bill You Lost Me,
1) Why is it not applicable to our planes?
2) What do you mean by "sweeping the wings"?
3) How does that make the role rate faster? >>
Sorry Richard. I was talking about the sweep normally seen on jet airplanes.
Causes "roll coupling" as stomping on the rudder will cause one wing to
become a straight one (more lift) and the other to have even more sweep (less
lift). Causes a decidedly swift roll.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
Two and half turns on the idle mixture screw doesn't sound right. We have
two 447's plus a friend has one, all three are around 1/2 turn. Are you
sure your turning the correct screw - the idle mixture is the little one,
the idle is the big one. Take the air filter off and make sure you slide
is working free and not hanging. We had a little burr on our first engine.
We had some problem holding idle when there new. Our first one took a
couple hours before the idle stabilized. Our second one were chasing it
some now. It has about 4 hours of ground time. Were beginning to believe
the reason is the rings haven't seated yet.
You will need to set it around 2000-2200 RPM. Also did you put in the
right gear weigh gear oil in the gear box. If you put 90W in it will
continue to chatter at higher RPM. This is something I caught on our
second engine, it should be 140W. Check the Rotax gear box oil spec's in
the operators manual for sure.
jerryb
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:53 AM
>Subject: Kolb-List: Rough idle
>
>
> Hello Terry
>The 447 is notorious for not idling as well as the other Rotax engines 2100
>to 2200 rpm is about right to keep the engine running smooth and not shaking
>the airplane. I have used 1150 as a limit for EGT some times on finial when
>the power is pulled back the temp will show 1200 just for a moment. so shoot
>for 1150 max 1200 EGT.
>Hope this helps.
>John
>
>>
>>Since I first fired up the 447 Rotax on my new FireFly it has been
>>impossible to get it to idle smoothly. I have done everything that more
>>experienced owners have told me. Talked to the Rotax dealer at Oshkosh.
>>
>>I'm swinging a Tennessee wood prop, 66" dia. x 30 pitch, supplied by
>>Kolb. When first operating the engine, had to turn out air mixture
>>screw to 2 1/2 turns to stop the shaking. Also had to keep the rpm at
>>2200 or above. Have since installed a smaller, #40, idle jet and have
>>been able to turn the air mixture screw to 3/4 to 1 turn open for best
>>idle, but must still maintain 2200 rpm. Still not smooth like the other
>>guys when theirs are at idle. Engine runs fine at all other settings,
>>staying within cylinder temp limits Rotax recommends.
>>
>>That the other question. I am getting conflicting information on
>>exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
>>Could use some good guide lines.
>>
>>Thanks: Terry K.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
Mike,
I can not retrieve your original letter or your response, so I can't reread
them. Did you say that while in a 45 degree bank, your rudder input has no effect
at all? Or did you say that your rudder input did not initiate a roll (to
increase or decrease your bank) without using the the ailerons? More, simply,
if
you are in a 45 bank with a yaw string tapped to your windscreen, and you applied
rudder, would your yaw string move? If it does move, then your rudder is having
an effect (slipping), its just not raising or lowering your wing. If the string
doesn't move, then your rudder is totally blanked out, which is pretty scary.
If
it is blanked out, what's the status of your elevator, is its effectiveness
impaired as well?
One scenario could be normal, the other dangerous. When a Kolb is in
equilibrium, as in straight & level or in a constant bank, my experience is that
just the rudder alone will not induce a role to any significant extent, but it
will always induce a significant slip (yaw). When the ailerons are applied
followed by rudder input, the initiated roll will always be accelerated by the
rudder input or slowed if the rudder is opposite.
In theory, I can imagine in a high g bank, the downwash from the hard working
wing is blanking out the tail. I have never experienced this. Which scenario
are
you experiencing? Thanks for your input. Its good to have another resource.
PS: Regarding your vortex generators, would they be strong enough to
reattatch the airflow as it comes around the widest part of the fuselage of an
enclosed Kolb (SlingShot to MKll)? If they could not reattatch the air, would
they at least help smooth out the air feeding the prop? Thanks again,
Richard S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy and Joni Tolvstad" <tolvstad(at)nvc.net> |
Hey guys,
Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the plane
already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to what
type of fabric to use and how much time and money to expect to invest in
such an undertaking? Does anyone have any good color schemes that they wish
to share?
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Your name sounds familiar... Did I sell you a set? Forgive me for the
senility.
We have had a few sets sold to Kolb people, but unfortunately, I rarely
hear back from people. They get them, they work, they make the pilot
happy, then I am forgotten.
Such is life.
Mike the VG guy. (like the maytag repair guy)
HShack(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/5/99 8:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> motavia(at)olypen.com writes:
>
> << I will try the gapseal on the rudder with
> and without VG`s, and will give a report back, as soon as we get some
> decent weather, that is. >>
> Mike, try the VG's on the wing also; they lowered my stall speed 5 MPH.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS I
> SC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Kolb Mark III Wanted |
I'm new to the Kolb List. I am looking for a good used Mark III or would
consider an uncompleted kit. I'm located in Huntsville, AL. Presently fly
MiniMax but need 2 place so that my 6yr old son can start flying with me.
Prefer without N# but will take either.
I would appreciate help from any of you who know of a good plane or project.
Lee Adcox
wladcox(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mk III, Folded Wings |
| From: | Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> |
"Oh wise and experienced builders of the list"
I have installed the wing fold tube in the fuselage. I have installed
160 pounds of softener salt in lieu of a power plant. (No thrust but
also very low consumption). I am now ready to fasten the brackets to the
wing main spar, in position to hold the outboad ends of the wings, in the
stored position.
My question is, should the underside of the wing be plumb or canted out
at the top (trailing edge) to make more room for the ailerons? (They are
still hanging on the garage wall). I would like to avoid installing the
ailerons (again) as I will have to turn around and take them off for
covering.
By the way, it has been a long time since I have heard any thing from the
Southern Poet Laureate of the List, (BEAUFORD).
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III, SN 312--N629RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Richard wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
> I can not retrieve your original letter or your response, so I can't reread
> them. Did you say that while in a 45 degree bank, your rudder input has no effect
> at all?
windscreen,
pretty scary.
:')
PS: Regarding your vortex generators, would they be strong enough to
> reattatch the airflow as it comes around the widest part of the fuselage of an
> enclosed Kolb (SlingShot to MKll)?
< No dont work. Once the flow has seperated from the boundry layer, it
will not reattach unless a large force is applied. Vg`s try to keep the
layer energized so it does not seperate.
Having said that, we do use them on the Rans S12XL trainer to stop the
"tail shake" inherant in that plane. Prop noise is lowered, and unless
you are hanging on the prop with the stick all the way back in your
guts, the prop wont even cavitate. When training, we can bury the stick
all the way back, full power, gross wt, (I`m 280 and I seem to get all
the big students) the plane will read 10 to 20 on the A/S, and climb.
(obviosly the A/S is worth nothing at that angle of attack, but the
point is that the prop and wings will function at ridiculous airspeeds
IF you can keep a flow of ATTACHED air moving over the wings).
If they could not reattatch the air, would
> they at least help smooth out the air feeding the prop?
Yes. We have played around with them some, putting them on JUST the root
area of the wings (diameter of the prop), and on the trailing edge of
the doors, and seen ABOUT 50 fpm or so improvement in climb, and a drop
in cavatation noise.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Randy and Joni Tolvstad wrote:
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the plane
> already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to what
> type of fabric to use......
If I may...
Having just finished the Firestar II.
I would figure on about 30 to 35 yds of 1.7 oz Poly Fiber from Wicks.
They sure treat people better than Spruce does since young Jim took over
running Aircraft Spruce and specialty
I used the PPG Omni base/clear, with a flexative in the clear. Came out
real nice. I used to use Poly Tone with automotive clear over it, but
the Omni covers better, is cheaper!, and no haz mat shipping costs.
Use the poly brush, then Poly Spray silver UV blocker, then the Omni
over the top. When you get all the color just the way you like it, then
you clearcoat it. Spray the clear as soon as you can after finishing the
color, for best bonding.
I spent less than $1000 for everything. Way less in fact, but figure a
grand at max for a real nice two color job.
imho
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com |
Has anyone had to jet a 377 rotax engine down to a 160 main jet, it seems to
run rich with the stock 165 egt 1000 full throttle during climb. I fly most
of the time around 1000 MSL Thanks ...................
randy, i have a 160 main jet in my 377, it works fine. i flew all summer,
believe it or not, with a 150 main jet.
what do i know? ..................................... tim (shoestring)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Henry <chhenry(at)plains.nodak.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat, |
the original builder of his
Mike Brown
>Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat,
Hi; I am also 6'4" and fly a FS1and find it reasonably comfortable. All I
did was move the bottom of the backrest to the rearmost holes and put a
foam wedge on the seat. The wedge shape gives more support for the legs
being in a somewhat knee high position. I could measure the foam but I
think it is about 2" in front and .75" in the rear. My FS1 has the aluminum
seat pan, if yours was rigged with the fabric mesh seat this woldn't work.
Maybe the rudder pedals were rigged with shorter than normal cables,thus
less legroom?
Charles Henry
North Dakota
FS1 447 @ 245 Hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
Thought I'd drop a line to the list that I got to do something yesterday
that I have dreamed of for years and years.. Yesterday afternoon I soloed
N757PS (a Cessna 152) for the first time. I flew for 1.2 hours with the
right seat empty and made the standard 3 landings and takeoffs. First
landing was a completely perfect "greaser" while the second 2 were shall
we say "well planted" as my instructor puts it. Nothing nasty , just a
little more THUD than normal passengers would appreciate. Of course
learning to fly in Class "C" airspace with commercial traffic has some
drawbacks and of course they all stuck their head up this afternoon. My
first 2 approachs were made to look like 747 patterns by other traffic
departing and arriving and a controller who kept extending my downwind.
The final approach was more normal and everything went fine. I got the
normal shirt tail trimming all the way to my collar and left with a BIG
grin on my face. I am a lucky man that can do that and then come home
to work off some of that pent up excitement on a Kolb project in my
basement. Now all I have to do is finish that Mark 3 and go fly
more...all in good time , I'll just finish that private license and
build some time before becoming a "test" pilot. If there is one thing
my 83 year old instructor , Mr. Earnie Shelton , has drilled into my
brain is patience, patience, patience...
Good night all ,0
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
P.S. Yesterday I couldn't spell aviator and now I are one!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron C Reece" <rcreec(at)ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic... |
"Jeremy Casey" on 10/06/99 08:59:07 AM
Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Off topic...
P.S. Yesterday I couldn't spell aviator and now I are one!!!
I remember my first solo experience. It's something you'll never forget. Keep
on working towards that home built kolb.
Ron Reece
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
>
>Hey guys,
>
>Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the plane
>already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to what
>type of fabric to use and how much time and money to expect to invest in
>such an undertaking? Does anyone have any good color schemes that they wish
>to share?
>
>Randy
>
If you want to go cheap then I'm the guy to talk to. Kolb uses a supplier
with great prices. I am not sure of the company name but the hubby and wife
team are the Millers. Just ask, they lurk on the list. Good knowlegeable
people and nice to deal with.
I once recovered a Vector using 1.6 oz Currently priced about $3.75/ yd
from the Millers. I glued it on with water resistant contact cement. Painted
with white latex house paint. I left this outside for 8 years in all
weather. When I scrapped it the fabric was still strong and the glue was
holding better than poly tac ever did. MY current Twinstar is painted with
the HIpec system which is automotive paint with flex agent added. No
problems with that yet either. I doubt the true value of silver uv coat. The
paint will stop most of the Uv and most of us store indoors anyway out of
the sun. If you paint it white then you can be up flying while you decide
what design to put on the feathers.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat, |
the original builder of his
Charles Henry wrote:
>
>
> Mike Brown
> >Re fitting your 6' 4" frame in the FS2 seat,
Thanks Charles, I did the same with the seatback, my legroom wasnt too
bad, biggest problem was headroom. If I tilt the top of the seatback fwd
far enough to get my helmet in front of the gap cover, then I`m am out
of legroom and sitting up so straight that it is no longer fun. Remember
'Lurch' from Adams family? They cut a hole in the roof of the car for
him? Thats me!
Actually, I was wondering if it would hurt anything(including the value
of the plane)if I cut off the front 'rib attach tubes' (what some call
spars), and removed or reshaped the gapcover, so my helmet can be
between the wings.?!?!? Is there some reason why they have to be there
other than handles for carrying the wings?
Just a thought..
Mike
>
> Hi; I am also 6'4" and fly a FS1and find it reasonably comfortable. All I
> did was move the bottom of the backrest to the rearmost ... My FS1 has the aluminum
> seat pan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skip Staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net> |
>When a Kolb is in
>equilibrium, as in straight & level or in a constant bank, my experience
is that
>just the rudder alone will not induce a role to any significant extent,
but it
>will always induce a significant slip (yaw).
That's pretty much the way my UltraStar flys. Great roll control with the
ailerons, but just about zero roll control using the rudder. Rudder alone
induces yaw and lots of drag as well as causing the nose to drop. The
rudder does little to bring a wing up. I don't think that the machine
could be flown if the ailerons ever became disconnected.
________________________________________________________________________________
Covering and covering supplies for Kolbs are from Aircraft Technical Support
http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
(toll-free) at 877 877-3334 or e-mail info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
Good luck
Will Uribe
Building a FireStar II
El Paso, TX
http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
BTW: Just last week I placed an order with Aircraft Spruce & Specialty, the
guy I talked to was very helpful and very polite. He even called back when I
forgot to ask him a question as we were going to hang up.
In a message dated 10/5/99 11:09:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
motavia(at)olypen.com (Mike Brown) writes:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the
> plane
> > already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to
> what
> > type of fabric to use......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "plane" <plane(at)atomic.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy and Joni Tolvstad <tolvstad(at)nvc.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 11:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: New fabric?
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the
plane
> already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to
what
> type of fabric to use and how much time and money to expect to invest in
> such an undertaking? Does anyone have any good color schemes that they
wish
> to share?
>
> Randy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | brian.p.fox(at)ac.com |
| Subject: | SlingShot Space for 2 |
Hi All,
Anyone out there either with a SlingShot or who has flown in one with an opinion
of it as a 2-seater? I'd be interested in hearing what you think of the space,
how long you'd tolerate a flight, etc.
Thanks very much,
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic... |
Congrats on the solo!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Waligroski, Greg" <gwaligro(at)ball.com> |
Randy,
I am jetting my 377 at 150 summertime and 155 in the winter. This is giving
me 300CHT and 1000-1050 EGT. I guess I should add that I am flying between
5000' and 10,000 feet out here in Colorado.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
Jim & Dondi Miller are as good as customer service gets. I've been covering
my MIII this fall, and when I need an order - it's there, a question - it's
answered. Best service I've ever had.
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: WillU(at)aol.com <WillU(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New fabric?
>
>Covering and covering supplies for Kolbs are from Aircraft Technical
Support
>http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
>(toll-free) at 877 877-3334 or e-mail info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
>
>Good luck
>Will Uribe
>Building a FireStar II
>El Paso, TX
>http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
>BTW: Just last week I placed an order with Aircraft Spruce & Specialty,
the
>guy I talked to was very helpful and very polite. He even called back when
I
>forgot to ask him a question as we were going to hang up.
>
>In a message dated 10/5/99 11:09:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
>motavia(at)olypen.com (Mike Brown) writes:
>
>> >
>> > Hey guys,
>> >
>> > Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased the
>> plane
>> > already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me to
>> what
>> > type of fabric to use......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Off topic... |
Congratulations Jeremy. It's kind of like the first prom date or your first
real girl friend. Your first solo is a feeling you will never forget. Enjoy
the Kolb, but get a check out before you "light the fires and kick the tires" on
the Kolb.
Bil Ragsdale MkIII sn 213
Jeremy Casey wrote:
>
> Thought I'd drop a line to the list that I got to do something yesterday
> that I have dreamed of for years and years.. Yesterday afternoon I soloed
> N757PS (a Cessna 152) for the first time. I flew for 1.2 hours with the
> right seat empty and made the standard 3 landings and takeoffs. First
> landing was a completely perfect "greaser" while the second 2 were shall
> we say "well planted" as my instructor puts it. Nothing nasty , just a
> little more THUD than normal passengers would appreciate. Of course
> learning to fly in Class "C" airspace with commercial traffic has some
> drawbacks and of course they all stuck their head up this afternoon. My
> first 2 approachs were made to look like 747 patterns by other traffic
> departing and arriving and a controller who kept extending my downwind.
> The final approach was more normal and everything went fine. I got the
> normal shirt tail trimming all the way to my collar and left with a BIG
> grin on my face. I am a lucky man that can do that and then come home
> to work off some of that pent up excitement on a Kolb project in my
> basement. Now all I have to do is finish that Mark 3 and go fly
> more...all in good time , I'll just finish that private license and
> build some time before becoming a "test" pilot. If there is one thing
> my 83 year old instructor , Mr. Earnie Shelton , has drilled into my
> brain is patience, patience, patience...
>
> Good night all ,0
>
> Jeremy Casey
> jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
>
> P.S. Yesterday I couldn't spell aviator and now I are one!!!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I have to back up the recommendation for Jim & Dondi. A couple of weeks
ago, I stumped Jim with a question. A day later he was on line with the
answer he had researched for me. Good People. Happy Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Sudlow <suds77(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New fabric?
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller are as good as customer service gets. I've been
covering
> my MIII this fall, and when I need an order - it's there, a question -
it's
> answered. Best service I've ever had.
>
> chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WillU(at)aol.com <WillU(at)aol.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New fabric?
>
>
> >
> >Covering and covering supplies for Kolbs are from Aircraft Technical
> Support
> >http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
> >(toll-free) at 877 877-3334 or e-mail info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
> >
> >Good luck
> >Will Uribe
> >Building a FireStar II
> >El Paso, TX
> >http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
> >BTW: Just last week I placed an order with Aircraft Spruce & Specialty,
> the
> >guy I talked to was very helpful and very polite. He even called back
when
> I
> >forgot to ask him a question as we were going to hang up.
> >
> >In a message dated 10/5/99 11:09:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> >motavia(at)olypen.com (Mike Brown) writes:
> >
> >> >
> >> > Hey guys,
> >> >
> >> > Been considering recovering my old Ultrastar, but having purchased
the
> >> plane
> >> > already built, I have no idea what to expect. Can anyone direct me
to
> >> what
> >> > type of fabric to use......
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller are as good as customer service gets. I've been
covering
> my MIII this fall, and when I need an order - it's there, a question -
it's
> answered. Best service I've ever had.
>
> >http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
> >(toll-free) at 877 877-3334 or e-mail info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
Randy:
Jim and Dondi get my vote. Really great people to deal with, super nice
and will answer questions till you run out of things to ask.
Later,
John Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I'd like to add my congrats to Jeremy for his solo. It's a wonderful
feeling. 5 years, and 260 hrs ago, I soloed a C172. Now, last Friday, my
instructor at Apple Valley, CA., stepped out of the Champ, and told me to
have at it. Same as Jeremy - 3 take-offs and landings, but I can only say
they were "adequate," not greasers. I had a little trouble adjusting to the
change in handling when my 220# instructor was out of the back seat. All
was fine though, and I'm now endorsed for tail dragger. Great stuff. On
the 3rd landing, I had it all sorted out, and was inches from a perfect
greaser, exactly on target for touchdown. Left hand on the throttle, left
elbow on a projection. Just as the wheels were touching, my elbow slipped,
and I jabbed the throttle. Still made a good landing, but it was a couple
of hundred feet farther down the runway than I had planned. Instructor Ron
is a precision formation, and aerobatic pilot, and had spent a lot of time
working on refining my techniques. Sorry Ron, I promise to do better this
Friday. I also found that if the stick isn't clear back in your gut as you
touch down, the plane will imitate a runaway kangaroo on landing. Caught
hell for that too, but it was still fun. Any one else going
to Copperstate this weekend ?? John, I'll email you direct.
Taildragger Lar. YeeeeeHaaawww ! ! !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Labharts <njlabhart(at)kih.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder effectiveness |
Mike and Group,
I flew the factory FireStar this evening with
the intent to test the rudder performance to see if your
rudder performance could be duplicated. I even taped some
yarn on the windshield in case the result could not be
felt and would have to be seen using the slip indicator.
Well the yarn was not needed. The rudder seems as
powerful at 45 degrees and 60 degrees of bank as it does
in level flight. The wind obviously was coming around
the right side of the windshield and then the left. The
fuselage made signifigant changes in direction. Someone
on the ground even commented they saw the tail waggling
around in the turns. So, the mystery deepens. What could
be causing your condition?
The conditions of my test where: FireStar II,
single seat, 503, 3 blade Warp prop, 150 lb pilot,
windshield (not full enclosure), and half tanks of gas.
Other conditions may have included many holes in
the fabric from a surprise attack by a enemy FireFly.
I was not able to shake him for a time and I fear I took
many hits. Finally I had enough of that, pulled vertical
with the mighty 503 and outclimbed him. I pulled back to
30 mph and he passed under me. Then I dived down onto his
tail to return the pasting. Man these planes are fun!
Norm
>
>Richard wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>> I can not retrieve your original letter or your response, so I can't
reread
>> them. Did you say that while in a 45 degree bank, your rudder input has
no effect
>> at all?
>
>this. I am NOT bragging, but just so you know I`m not puttin you on, I
>have been teaching since 93, have over 3000 hrs in u/l`s and another 10K
>hrs in Coast Guard aircraft as crew, maybe 500 of that as stick time in
>Helos, Albatrosses, and some C130 stick time(not much as there is no
>stick :') and maybe 500 in 172`s, Citabrias, J-3s, Aeroncas, and Pitts.
>Oh, Great Lakes too- Very fun open cockpit "Fat Ultralight"!!
>
>Anyway the point is, The rudder DOES NOT WORK in a bank. not enought to
>keep me from sucking up the seat cushion. Never seen this before. I
>designed and built a plane called the Desert Eagle in 95, and have flown
>it 500 hrs. It has a BIG balanced rudder, works like power steering. You
>just sort of "look" where you want to go, and the plane follows like a
>good horse.
>The Kolb is VERY wierd on the rudder.
>On takeoff, climb is pretty near "normal", climbout is no biggie, maybe
>a bit "soft" on rudder, with little coupling, but once you swing into a
>bank, the rudder does NOTHING, until you use the ailerons to roll level.
>Maybe this is normal Kolb, but it feels wierd. Definitely unlike
>anything I have flown yet. (I know what you mean about Quicks. I am the
>Washington dealer for Q/S, and have a Sprint II in the "Trainer Hanger".
>I did nothing different when rebuilding the plane. No Mods. Nada. I did
>not fly the plane before it was wrecked, so no "foreknowlage". The plane
>is as straight as the day it left the Kolb factory. Elevator works just
>fine. Straight and level flight - reasonable rudder control, but nothing
>to brag about. This is why my thought about the rudder gap seals. You
>have to be careful doing gap seals. Some planes dont like them. Hence,
>my request to people more knowagable than I.
>Thanks.>
> windscreen,
njlabhart(at)kih.net
1956 Cessna 172 7453A
Graham Lee Nieuport 11 replica
Serial Number 1080, On the Gear!
http://www.users.kih.net/~njlabhart/nieuport.htm
Kolb FireStar II, 1% finished.
http://www.users.kih.net/~njlabhart/FireStar.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder effectiveness |
The Labharts wrote:
>
> Hey there Norm, first let me say thank you(and the other listers) for taking
an interest in the 'rudder thing'. The people on this list are (imho)of a very
high caliber! I occasionally lurk on another list, and am saddened by the way
these people treat each other, slinging insults at people that ask legitimate
questions, ect. Kudos to you all.
Now, about this rudder thing... It sounds like the factory plane does
what planes are supposed to do. Wagging the tail in banked turns is
something this one will not do. I am still waiting for the local store
to get the shipment of Velcro in so I can complete the job I started. I
put 1" stickyback velcro "loop" on the trail edge of each wing spar, and
the leading edge of each aileron, same with the rudder and elevator.
Then I took a 2" strip of plain(non-sticky)"hook", folded it in half,
and carefully inserted it in between the two pcs of "loop". Makes a
really clean looking, lightweight, gapseal that can be removed for
cleaning, or, perish the thought, repairs. Its half done, and I`m out of
black, 1", "loop". Problem is, our podunk store does not really give a
rat`s patoot if I get to fly before the millenium or not.
Now I wait.
Or, I suppose I could do the test that was suggested earlier by a crafty
lister, and fly with gapseal on just one wing to see what happens....
Hah! Just kidding! Hoo-Boy.
Thanks,
Mike
Olympic Ultralights
Lynx
Vortex Generators
Full Lotus
Ivo
BRS
Aero Controls
Flight Training
> Mike and Group,
> I flew the factory FireStar this evening with
> the intent to test the rudder performance to see if your
> rudder performance could be duplicated. I even taped some
> yarn on the windshield in case the result could not be
> felt and would have to be seen using the slip indicator.
> Well the yarn was not needed. The rudder seems as
> powerful at 45 degrees and 60 degrees of bank as it does
> in level flight. The wind obviously was coming around
> the right side of the windshield and then the left. The
> fuselage made signifigant changes in direction. Someone
> on the ground even commented they saw the tail waggling
> around in the turns. So, the mystery deepens. What could
> be causing your condition?
> The conditions of my test where: FireStar II,
> single seat, 503, 3 blade Warp prop, 150 lb pilot,
> windshield (not full enclosure), and half tanks of gas.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BILLUPSHUR(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I have not seen any mention about the following Kolb accident which was
reported in the October 1999 issue of Aviation Safety. I thought that you
would be interested so here it is.
"July 4, Clark, Pa.
Kolb Mark III
Lake. The unlicensed plot and passenger were killed. The airplane had been
kept at Brookfield Airpark, and more than a year had passed since the last
annual inspection. The owner had removed the certificate of registration and
airworthiness from the airplane. The owner also reported that the key to the
airplane and the helmets used by pilot and passenger were stolen from a
locked garage. Witnesses saw the airplane fly under a bridge and continue to
operate as low as 6 feet off the water. While maneuvering between two
bridges that were about 3,400 feet apart, the airplane pulled up into a
vertical climb to about 300 feet, then continue into a loop. The airplane
crashed nose-down into the water. FAA records showed neither occupant had
ever held an airman certificate or medical, but the airport manager at
Brookfield reported that he had previously observed the person identified as
the pilot flying in ultralights with other pilots."
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Townsend" <townsend(at)lebpub.net> |
Hello,
Tim T. here,
I am an powered parachute pilot and hold a AFI with ASC. I am know building
a Kolb Mark III. The control surfaces and the left wing are finished and I
find
this to be a nice project. We flew the Challenger II and opted for the kolb.
My Wife wanted a side by side airplane, so I looked at all the planes in
Kitplanes and at sun & fun and chose the Kolb. This list seems to be
very kind and helpful, I hope you all will put up with my Questions and
keep me on the track. I also fly RC airplanes professionally in the
aerobatics
and pylon racing classes. I hope to put all my experiences and work
together to create a great plane.
Nice to be here
Thanks,
Tim Townsend
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Townsend" <townsend(at)lebpub.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 12:09 AM
Subject: ft. per min. / ft. per sec.
I sent this to the PPC list sence I know every one there, but thought
I would see what the Kolb miesters had to say.
Tim T.
Bob,
Why are some vertical air speed readings talked about in ft. per min. and
some in ft. per sec. I have always used ft. per min. I guess the EIS
reads in ft. per min. I have seen when talking about ascending we call
it ft. per min. but then some one says ft. per sec. when talking about
descending. Is there something I am missing here.
Just thought I would ask.
Tim T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris L <emotepix(at)artnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/06/99 |
Hi there
Anybody ever built or seen a tricycle geared Kolb III? I'd like to build one but
don't know the design limitations.
Cheers
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Townsend" <townsend(at)lebpub.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/06/99 |
Chris,
Tim T. here, I am building a Mark III and could still consider a trike gear
set up. Man that sounds great, I have noticed that the AOA needed for
a full flair landing is not possible with the kolb III in the tail dragger
config.
The tail wheel hits first, rotating you at above the lowest landing speed.
I will consider this trike thing also but we will only gain about 12 inches
tail clearance and will have to use a skid. I had planned to lengthen the
mains
and shorten the tail boom But the trike may be better in the long run.
Just thinking, I will probably build it stock the first time.
Tim T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris L <emotepix(at)artnet.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:17 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/06/99
>
> Hi there
>
> Anybody ever built or seen a tricycle geared Kolb III? I'd like to build
one but don't know the design limitations.
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/7/99 12:21:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com writes:
<< woody, you painted with auto paint and got good results? tell me about
this.
i'm thinking about recovering my firestar and have wondered about using auto
paint.
..................... tim >>
I painted my Firestar with 3 colors of Coronado urethane latex 3 years ago
and it has held up very well. The only problem was it was tooooo flexible and
(maintained the gloss) needed an addititive to take some of the tackiness out
of it ( which I failed to do and the original poly flecks would stick to it)
....but it is a real powerful adhering paint!!.............. GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Tim Townsend wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Townsend
> To: powerchutes(at)onelist.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 12:09 AM
> Subject: ft. per min. / ft. per sec.
>
>
> I sent this to the PPC list sence I know every one there, but thought
> I would see what the Kolb miesters had to say.
>
> Tim T.
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Why are some vertical air speed readings talked about in ft. per min. and
> some in ft. per sec. I have always used ft. per min. I guess the EIS
> reads in ft. per min. I have seen when talking about ascending we call
> it ft. per min. but then some one says ft. per sec. when talking about
> descending. Is there something I am missing here.
> Just thought I would ask.
>
> Tim T.
My guess would be that it is related to magnitude of the rate of
change. If vertical velocity is HIGH, then it would seem logical to
express it in ft/sec. If vertical velocity is LOW, then ft/min might be
better.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/06/99 |
>
>Hi there
>
>Anybody ever built or seen a tricycle geared Kolb III? I'd like to build
one but don't know the design limitations.
>
>Cheers
>
>Chris.
>
We have hashed this one out before and should be available in the
archives. Do not let old pilot tales of taildraggers scare you. Kolbs are
easily handled and the taildragger part is a non issue. I taught myself to
fly a taildragger in a Kolb Flyer. I have had no problems transitioning to
an ultrastar, Twinstar , Firestar or Mk111. They also look better on the
ground compared rto most trike gear with their nose wheels stuck in the air.
Only advantage to a trigear is you can add extra weight and more money into
your project.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
>
>In a message dated 10/7/99 12:21:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>Tim.Hrib(at)carefirst.com writes:
>
><< woody, you painted with auto paint and got good results? tell me about
> this.
> i'm thinking about recovering my firestar and have wondered about using auto
> paint.
> ..................... tim >>
>
>I painted my Firestar with 3 colors of Coronado urethane latex 3 years ago
>and it has held up very well. The only problem was it was tooooo flexible and
>(maintained the gloss) needed an addititive to take some of the tackiness out
>of it ( which I failed to do and the original poly flecks would stick to it)
>....but it is a real powerful adhering paint!!.............. GeoR38
>
The Hipec saystem was developed in Canada. A bit of research turned up
that it was a 2 part automotive paint with a flex agent added. As Geo stated
it is a powerfull adhesive and in fact that is used to hold the fabric onto
the ribs in place of rib stitching or rivits. It also adds strength to the
fabric and comes in a vast selection of colours. You know it is strong and
weather proof just by looking at all the cars out there.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | updated seafoam procedure |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Updated Seafoam Procedure:
1) Take out one spark plug and bring that piston to TDC (this should be
down before the wings are folded and the prop is horizontal).
*Use a long plastic stick (oriental chopstick) in the cylinder to sight
TDC, then advance it slightly (if it advances too much, the Seafoam will
run right out through the ports)*
2) Fill the cylinder to the top with Seafoam.
3) Put in a used spark plug snugging it tight, then move the prop slowly
in the normal rotation listening for the Seafoam squeezing into the
rings.
*Be careful here not to cause hydraulic lock which could damage the
crank*
*Move the prop SLOWLY with the plug installed (this can be done with the
wings folded if TDC is located before taking down). The prop may be
rocked back and forth slightly around TDC squeezing the Seafoam. The
object here is to get the rings soaked with Seafoam.*
4) Let it sit for a few days (a week if possible)
5) Start it up and run at about 4000 rpm once it's warmed up.
6) When it quits blowing white smoke out the exhaust, it's ready.
7) Take it for a flight.
8) Put a new plug in the treated cylinder.
9) Repeat steps 1-8 for the other cylinder.
TIP ----- An old primer pump with primer line can be used to pump the
Seafoam into the sparkplug hole from the can. Use a flashlight to see
that the cylinder is filled to the top.
Please Note: The Seafoam *may* foul the plug. Use some old plugs during
the treatment then put in new ones after the treatment. I have tested it
for the above method. The instructions say that you can add it to your
gas tank, but I would NOT do it because you do not know what it will eat
up. Keep it in the cylinders only. Use the treatment often, about every
10-15 hours of flying.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com> |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
OK Guys, I have never seen seafoam in a store, where do I get this stuff, I
have 3 Rotax eng. in my household that could benefit from the treatment.
Thanks,
Dennis
PS I'm looking for an oil injection system for a 503
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: updated seafoam procedure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JCBuckeridge" <buckeridge(at)stlnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
I hate to play the devils advocate here and the Lord forgive me if I start
another Seafoam thread...but.
I had my 447 apart this past Spring for the first time (420+ hours and no
problems) and poured the product into the underside of the piston and let
it set a week to see if it would soften the carbon buildup under there.
Results...no difference. Therefore, I wouldn't expect it to do anything
sitting in the cylinders
for a week either, correct? A friend here suggests that the stuff might
only work when it is used in conjunction with heat. So why step #4? And
yes, I've used the old procedure one time. The guys around here also use a
Teflon product once a year. Extra goodie: there are 15 U/L's at our field
and 8 are Kolbs.
----------
> From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: updated seafoam procedure
> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM
>
>
> Updated Seafoam Procedure:
>
> 1) Take out one spark plug and bring that piston to TDC (this should be
> down before the wings are folded and the prop is horizontal).
>
> *Use a long plastic stick (oriental chopstick) in the cylinder to sight
> TDC, then advance it slightly (if it advances too much, the Seafoam will
> run right out through the ports)*
>
> 2) Fill the cylinder to the top with Seafoam.
> 3) Put in a used spark plug snugging it tight, then move the prop slowly
> in the normal rotation listening for the Seafoam squeezing into the
> rings.
>
> *Be careful here not to cause hydraulic lock which could damage the
> crank*
>
> *Move the prop SLOWLY with the plug installed (this can be done with the
> wings folded if TDC is located before taking down). The prop may be
> rocked back and forth slightly around TDC squeezing the Seafoam. The
> object here is to get the rings soaked with Seafoam.*
>
> 4) Let it sit for a few days (a week if possible)
> 5) Start it up and run at about 4000 rpm once it's warmed up.
> 6) When it quits blowing white smoke out the exhaust, it's ready.
> 7) Take it for a flight.
> 8) Put a new plug in the treated cylinder.
> 9) Repeat steps 1-8 for the other cylinder.
>
> TIP ----- An old primer pump with primer line can be used to pump the
> Seafoam into the sparkplug hole from the can. Use a flashlight to see
> that the cylinder is filled to the top.
>
>
> Please Note: The Seafoam *may* foul the plug. Use some old plugs during
> the treatment then put in new ones after the treatment. I have tested it
> for the above method. The instructions say that you can add it to your
> gas tank, but I would NOT do it because you do not know what it will eat
> up. Keep it in the cylinders only. Use the treatment often, about every
> 10-15 hours of flying.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skip Staub <skips(at)bhip.infi.net> |
><< woody, you painted with auto paint and got good results? tell me
about
> this.
>I painted my Firestar with 3 colors of Coronado urethane latex 3 years ago
>and it has held up very well.
After a rebuild on my wife's Aeronca Chief (now sold) I painted it with
Sherwin-Williams acrilic enamel with a plastisizer. The auto paint went on
well over the ceconite and looked great (thanks to the expertise of a
friend who is a better painter than I).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Dennis,
Some parts of the country do not have the Seafoam, like in the Northeast.
Try your local auto parts stores or Walmart.
Ralph
writes:
>
>OK Guys, I have never seen seafoam in a store, where do I get this
>stuff, I
>have 3 Rotax eng. in my household that could benefit from the
>treatment.
>Thanks,
>Dennis
>PS I'm looking for an oil injection system for a 503
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:38 PM
>Subject: Kolb-List: updated seafoam procedure
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
JC,
I don't claim to be an expert on how Seafoam works, but I do know that it
does work if you follow the procedure. The secret is getting it into the
rings and the only way for it to be effective is to squeeze into them
under compression. When the engine is started after one cylinder has been
treated, it will blow out carbon for 10 minutes until it's gone, then you
can take it up for a flight. Try it, you'll like what it does.
I'm not a dealer for Seafoam, just want to make 2-cycle flying safer for
all of us.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
>
>
>I hate to play the devils advocate here and the Lord forgive me if I
>start
>another Seafoam thread...but.
>I had my 447 apart this past Spring for the first time (420+ hours and
>no
>problems) and poured the product into the underside of the piston and
>let
>it set a week to see if it would soften the carbon buildup under
>there.
>Results...no difference. Therefore, I wouldn't expect it to do
>anything
>sitting in the cylinders
>for a week either, correct? A friend here suggests that the stuff
>might
>only work when it is used in conjunction with heat. So why step #4?
>And
>yes, I've used the old procedure one time. The guys around here also
>use a
>Teflon product once a year. Extra goodie: there are 15 U/L's at our
>field
>and 8 are Kolbs.
>----------
>> From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: updated seafoam procedure
>> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:38 AM
>>
>
>>
>> Updated Seafoam Procedure:
>>
>> 1) Take out one spark plug and bring that piston to TDC (this
>should be
>> down before the wings are folded and the prop is horizontal).
>>
>> *Use a long plastic stick (oriental chopstick) in the cylinder to
>sight
>> TDC, then advance it slightly (if it advances too much, the Seafoam
>will
>> run right out through the ports)*
>>
>> 2) Fill the cylinder to the top with Seafoam.
>> 3) Put in a used spark plug snugging it tight, then move the prop
>slowly
>> in the normal rotation listening for the Seafoam squeezing into the
>> rings.
>>
>> *Be careful here not to cause hydraulic lock which could damage the
>> crank*
>>
>> *Move the prop SLOWLY with the plug installed (this can be done with
>the
>> wings folded if TDC is located before taking down). The prop may be
>> rocked back and forth slightly around TDC squeezing the Seafoam. The
>> object here is to get the rings soaked with Seafoam.*
>>
>> 4) Let it sit for a few days (a week if possible)
>> 5) Start it up and run at about 4000 rpm once it's warmed up.
>> 6) When it quits blowing white smoke out the exhaust, it's ready.
>> 7) Take it for a flight.
>> 8) Put a new plug in the treated cylinder.
>> 9) Repeat steps 1-8 for the other cylinder.
>>
>> TIP ----- An old primer pump with primer line can be used to pump
>the
>> Seafoam into the sparkplug hole from the can. Use a flashlight to
>see
>> that the cylinder is filled to the top.
>>
>>
>> Please Note: The Seafoam *may* foul the plug. Use some old plugs
>during
>> the treatment then put in new ones after the treatment. I have
>tested it
>> for the above method. The instructions say that you can add it to
>your
>> gas tank, but I would NOT do it because you do not know what it will
>eat
>> up. Keep it in the cylinders only. Use the treatment often, about
>every
>> 10-15 hours of flying.
>>
>> Ralph Burlingame
>> Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
Y'all kidding huh? Who would put something called seafoam in their engines? I
have been around two-stroke engines for years and have never heard of
anything called seafoam. I have seen the sea foaming--usually during a
storm--but never in my cylinders. How about some of the spray in engine
treatments sold at boat shops and cycles shops that are injected throgh the
carbs while the engine is running. I have used these in other engines but
never in a Rotax Aero engine--has anyone? JR, y'all sniffing to much MEK or
something
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
I found Seafoam at a Fisher (Federated) Auto store.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure/bearings |
Since this thread won't go away I'll join it. I am extreeeeemly nervous about
putting a solvent in the combustion chamber, under pressure, so that it will
go to the piston rings. It seems that it would also have a good chance of
getting past the rings to those always-super-clean crankshaft bearings. If it
contains water, is carrying carbon particles it just cleaned off of the rings
or neutralizes the lubrication of the residual oil film it may shorten the
life of the crankshaft. The fact that it appears to clean the top end
immediately may be a short term result with long term consequences. My $.02
worth.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
After an all nighter with the scanner , camcorder/video card , and a crash
course in HTML programming I have finally put up that web page that I have
always intended. There will be more in a couple of days , but 2 hours of
sleep is about the minimum for me to get a days work in off of. This first
installment is kind of a quick documentary about the Kolb Fly-In in London,
Ky. a couple of weeks ago. Hope ya'll like it...
http:/jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: New web site... |
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Casey <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:31 AM
Subject: New web site...
>After an all nighter with the scanner , camcorder/video card , and a crash
>course in HTML programming I have finally put up that web page that I have
>always intended. There will be more in a couple of days , but 2 hours of
>sleep is about the minimum for me to get a days work in off of. This first
>installment is kind of a quick documentary about the Kolb Fly-In in London,
>Ky. a couple of weeks ago. Hope ya'll like it...
>
>http:/jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
>
>Jeremy Casey
>jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
>
>
Sorry but I forgot a backslash in the address..
http://jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hipec/Automotive Paint Repair |
>
>Tim & Others,
>
> How do you repair acrylic enamel or Hipec or latex covered fabric, as these
>substances do not disolve & blend in with the repair coat like Stitz does?
Or am
>I not correct on this point? Thanks, Richard S
>
Don't really know. I usually just take a spray bomb and recolour the bare
spots or patches. There must be some solvent or resurfacer that can be used.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart(at)ncfcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New web site... |
Just in case anyone missed it, the correct address is
http://jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
J.D. Stewart
NCF Communications, Inc.
http://www.ncfcomm.com
UltraFun AirSports
http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/ultrafunairsports
Challenger Owners Website and e-mail list administrator
http://challenger.maverick.net
NE Nebraska Flying Club
http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/nnfc
ICQ # 22494032
>
> After an all nighter with the scanner , camcorder/video card , and a crash
> course in HTML programming I have finally put up that web page that I have
> always intended. There will be more in a couple of days , but 2 hours of
> sleep is about the minimum for me to get a days work in off of. This
first
> installment is kind of a quick documentary about the Kolb Fly-In in
London,
> Ky. a couple of weeks ago. Hope ya'll like it...
>
> http:/jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
>
> Jeremy Casey
> jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G. Johannsson" <johann.g(at)centrum.is> |
Hi list members.
I have been thinking of building an enclosed trailer for my Firestar II,
so that I can store it during the winter months inside the trailer,
instead of using my garage and also to tow my plane to and from the
airport in one peace, without blowing ower in our gusty winds.
Has anyone bought a trailer for this purpose from a company called Pace
American.
Their web site is http://www.paceamerican.com
I do not have their brochure yet, so I do not know the prices, but some
of these trailers look very nice and could well be adapted for our Kolb
aircraft.
Does anyone know if their prices are reasonable?
I would appreciate any info from you who live so close to all the nice
fun product.
The isolation up here can be frustrating sometimes. Internet helps.
Contemplating on moving to USA where the fun stuff is made.
Best regards from windy and rainy Iceland.
(You notice in my mail that the weather has been bad for ultralights
this summer)
Johann G.
Firestar II 40 hours flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another new guy |
In a message dated 10/8/99 12:22:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
townsend(at)lebpub.net writes:
<< GeoR38,
Thanks for the welcome. Man how can we make time for all our hobbies.
I am building a mark III, two RC's, trying to shoot my guns and bow,
play with my wife opps.., play with the kids, work full time, train my
PPC students, run our six shooter dealer ship and trying to build my Kolb
again. I am moving the Kolb up in the events. I want it flying by spring,
just
starting on the second wing. All control surfaces are done, do you think
it can be done?
Our Best
Tim T. >>
I hear ya buddy...you sound like me....except for the part just before the
oops. ........ welcome to the list......... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Web page address corrected... |
Sorry folks , I sent this correction right after I sent the mistake but here
it is again ... and right this time!!!
http://jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Web page address corrected... |
In a message dated 10/8/99 11:57:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Sorry folks , I sent this correction right after I sent the mistake but
here
it is again ... and right this time!!!
http://jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
>>
thanks JR you are now one of my favorite places........
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gvoigt3000(at)aol.com |
john, pace makes a very good quality trailer. I,am in the antique
tractor & gas engine market and possibly going to purchase firestar a kit
next spring and I too am looking at trailers, right now I have a open 18 ft.
tandem trailer, 83" between the wheel wells and electric brakes on both 3500
lb. axels. I believe you would need a 24 ft. trailer O.D. to have I.D. 22'
11". you could possibly get by with a 22 ft. but then you would only have
about 3" on each end without putting it at an angle, anyway your looking at
about $5900.00 depending on if you want a fold down door, lights, vents, side
door ect. as you can see, you can spend a lot of money on options.
good luck in you choice. also look at "wells cargo" they too make a nice
trailer.
I can't wait till I purchase a firestar kit, that way I can call and bug
ralph burligame
to ask lots of questions.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
excelsior,mn. do not arcive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Jeremy's web page |
You did a great job, thanks, It was toooooooo far for a Oregon boy, but you
made it possibile.
Laarry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam procedure |
>
>Y'all kidding huh? Who would put something called seafoam in their engines? I
>have been around two-stroke engines for years and have never heard of
>anything called seafoam. I have seen the sea foaming--usually during a
>storm--but never in my cylinders. How about some of the spray in engine
>treatments sold at boat shops and cycles shops that are injected throgh the
>carbs while the engine is running. I have used these in other engines but
>never in a Rotax Aero engine--has anyone? JR, y'all sniffing to much MEK or
>something
>
PLEASE dont get them going on this seafoam stuff again. It is a solvent
that works wonders on the carbon buildup. Check the archives for more
information.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam/spray cleaners?? |
Thanks Woody, still never heard of anything called seafoam. Just because it
is in archives does not mean it really exits but leaving that aside my real
question is has anyone used any of the spray type cleaners sold at marine
supply and cycles shops and if so what were the results. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam/spray cleaners?? |
Hey ya'll, I have used the marine type spray cleaners and found them for our
application useless. I couldn't tell they had done anything to clean a 503.
Then I tried it in a 582, same results. I was using a TCW III oil at the
time. I switched to Pennzoil 2 cycle air-cooled and haven't had to do any
cleaning at all as far as carbon is concerned except at my normal
teardown-look-see around 150-200 hours intervals. There is always some
carbon on the piston crown and on the inside bottom of the piston but not
much on the head or the piston skirts nor are the rings stuck. So I ask, why
would I do anything different? This works for me.
Firehawk
>From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: updated seafoam/spray cleaners??
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 03:05:42 EDT
>
>
>Thanks Woody, still never heard of anything called seafoam. Just because it
>is in archives does not mean it really exits but leaving that aside my real
>question is has anyone used any of the spray type cleaners sold at marine
>supply and cycles shops and if so what were the results. JR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I have a
dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between front and
rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this 1 hr
45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as
compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LIVING with aircraft batteries |
------------------
>>>A few years back I did some research into batteries for an underwater
>>>propulsion device and I learned that the number of cycles that you got
>>>out of a battery decreased with the percent discharge of the cycles. So
>>>I am wondering what the effect on battery life is when you discharge it
>>>to 5-10% of its capacity. Is that the only way to test the battery?
>>
------------------
bn: It's true that a battery's life is improved by limiting the
bn: depth to which you discharge it on each cycle.
------------------
>So, then, what is different about the construction of a "deep-cycle"
>battery, such as those marketed as such for use in golf carts?
------------------
Deep cycle batteries pack more chemistry into the plate
structure . . . generally limiting the number of plates
per volume and increased spacing between plates which
translates into higher internal resistance and poorer
performance at low temperatures.
I suspect that as the battery technology evolves, the
the gap between batteries optomized for deep cycle
work and cranking service may narrow. Most sealed
lead acid batteries sold are used in deep cycle
applications (camcorders, cellphones, power tools,
etc.) so I'm sure the industry is working hard to
keep this performance arena working well. In larger
batteries (10 a.h. and up) there is also a need for
good cranking performance. One company in particular
has gone the extra mile in optimizing cranking
performance in VERY small cells (1.2 a.h.).
See http://199.239.60.165/
These tiny cells combined with two alternators make
it now possible to remove the pigs found on most
aircraft engines for starters and alternators and
to forego the classic 24 a.h. battery in favor of
light weight alternators, starter, and itty-bitty
batteries for a DUAL electrical system who's TOTAL
weight is about equal to the original 24 a.h. battery!
The only sealed batteries I'm aware of specifcally
made for deep cycle service are true gel-cells offered
by Sonnenschein and Johnson Controls (the old Globe
line). I think B&C still offers a couple of gels
for customers that like them but for my money,
the RG battery is the only way to go for an airplane
were deep cycle performance isn't an issue.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam/spray cleaners?? |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Mike (Firehawk), you might switch to an all-synthetic oil and then you
could eliminate the 150-200 hour teardowns. No question about it, the
"all-synthetics" are the way to go in the 2-cycle engine. I use the
Seafoam as an extra precaution.
Nope, not an Amzoil dealer either ...... but .......
reliability is the bottom line.
(I use Klotz all-synthetic KL-216 snowmobile oil, not a dealer for them
either)
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
>
>
>Hey ya'll, I have used the marine type spray cleaners and found them
>for our
>application useless. I couldn't tell they had done anything to clean a
>503.
>Then I tried it in a 582, same results. I was using a TCW III oil at
>the
>time. I switched to Pennzoil 2 cycle air-cooled and haven't had to do
>any
>cleaning at all as far as carbon is concerned except at my normal
>teardown-look-see around 150-200 hours intervals. There is always some
>
>carbon on the piston crown and on the inside bottom of the piston but
>not
>much on the head or the piston skirts nor are the rings stuck. So I
>ask, why
>would I do anything different? This works for me.
>Firehawk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G. Johannsson" <johann.g(at)centrum.is> |
| Subject: | Mark III Flight Training |
Hi List members.
My friend here in Iceland is just about ready to do his first flight on
his Mark III.
He has asked me to check if anyone on the list is giving instructions on
a Mark III, somewhere on the east coast or near Minneapolis.
He and I are planning on flying to USA for three or four days, so that
he may get a few hours experience in a Mark III, before he does the
flight test.
He is an experienced G/A pilot and has been flying all around the island
in all kinds of weather and taking pictures of volcano eruptions, which
is his favorite :-) Yes I know it sounds daring, but this is something
we are getting used to up here in Iceland, and he will be using his
plane for this purpose, to get the best pictures up close. He has built
an enclosed trailer so that he can tow the plane all around the country
to get close to his picture project, instead of flying all the way from
home, just to return back in a few minutes to get more fuel.
As most of you know who have spent a lot of time and money to build a
great plane like this, that the first flight must be well planned and
not done by someone inexperienced.
There are no Mark III pilots in Iceland yet, only a few Firestar II
pilots. This is something different I am told, and I would not want to
be his test pilot and maybe damage his new plane.
If anyone knows of a Mark III owner/trainer, who could help, please send
me a mail.
Best regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
johann.g(at)centrum.is
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Flight Training |
>
>Hi List members.
>
>My friend here in Iceland is just about ready to do his first flight on
>his Mark III.
>As most of you know who have spent a lot of time and money to build a
>great plane like this, that the first flight must be well planned and
>not done by someone inexperienced.
>There are no Mark III pilots in Iceland yet, only a few Firestar II
>pilots. This is something different I am told, and I would not want to
>be his test pilot and maybe damage his new plane.
>If anyone knows of a Mark III owner/trainer, who could help, please send
>me a mail.
>
>Best regards,
>Johann G.
>Iceland.
>johann.g(at)centrum.is
The MKIII is easy to fly, here are a couple suggestions for the first time:
Put a yaw string on the lower edge of the windshield. Use a light colored
bit of yarn about 20 cm long, tape it right in the middle of the
windshield, and tape a dot of tape for a mark right at the top center of
straight up. The MKIII will easily fly sideways, and you will need the
string to know if you are in a yaw. If the string shows you the
wind/airplane alignment, it is easier.
Adjust the ailerons and flaps so that they droop about 3 or 4 degrees when
the airplane is sitting on the ramp. If the flaps and ailerons hang down a
bit, all it will do is make the airplane act noseheavy, and you can trim
that out in flight with the factory trim. However, if the flaps and
ailerons are even with the lower wing surface while on the ramp, they will
blow up higher in flight, because of the air loads, and the airplane will
act tailheavy even if it is not. If you get distracted during the first
flight, and the airplane is acting tailheavy, your airspeed will go away
while you are distracted, it will nose up. Nose heavy control feelings are
safer than tailheavy, and I think easier to deal with. Retrim it after you
fly it a bit, and have a chance to see what it needs.
Make your climbouts at 50-55 mph, and your approaches at 60 mph, no flaps
until you get familar with it. Those are not optimum speeds, but they will
give you a cushion if things go bad. The MKIII slows down fast when you
chop the throttle, even faster if the flaps are down, and you will surprise
yourself being too high with not enough speed until you are used to it.
Take your time getting used to the flaps, they really change your angle of
attack on approach to landing, and when you chop the throttle, your
airspeed goes away quickly. Use no flaps your first several hours.
The tapered nose and your feet angled toward the center gives you an odd
optical perspective when you are landing until you get used to it. Have
someone stand straight out in front of the pilot seat about 10 meters, and
see where they appear relative to your instrument panel or windshield. That
is straight ahead. On my airplane, it is directly over the compass, so I
use that for my alignment point when I am on final approach. (no wind)
When you are landing, remember the elevator is sensitive, you will
probably be a little nervous, it is easy to get into a pilot induced
oscillation just above the ground while you are feeling your way down,
don't get anxious or nervous, pick a big enough airstrip that you are not
worried about room, and just be patient, hold it just off the ground until
it quits flying, and it will sit down very nicely.
Remember that you have a high thrust line, and if you are sitting still on
the ground, especially if you have the brakes on, and give it full
throttle, you will land on that funny curved tube that is under the nose .
I use about 2/3rds throttle for takeoff until it gets to about 20 mph, and
then full throttle, and then it is OK.
I hope some of this is helpful. It is a good airplane, enjoy it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Heritch" <heritch(at)connecti.com> |
| Subject: | Slinshot floor pan |
Does the floor pan stop short of the cross tube where the rudder pedals are,
or was I shorted material?
The .032 6061 for the floor pan seems abit thin. Does anyone think I would
be better off with thicker material?
You ideas are appreciated...
Ian Heritch
Slingshot w/912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Heritch" <heritch(at)connecti.com> |
Does the builder's log have to be in a bound book?
Ian Heritch
Slingshot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Heritch" <heritch(at)connecti.com> |
Should the altimeter be vented to the cabin or do I need to install a static
port? If so, any ideas on location or should I invest in a pitot/static
tube?
Thanks for your help...
Ian Heritch
Slingshot w/912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
>
> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I have a
>dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
>noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between front and
>rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this 1 hr
>45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as
>compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
>ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
I would be more suspicious of it than usual until it either settles down,
blows up, or reveals what it is up to. Aside from that, no clever ideas.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Log |
>
>Does the builder's log have to be in a bound book?
>
>Ian Heritch
>Slingshot
If you are talking about the log that you show the FSDO person to prove
that you were the one to build the airplane, the answer is no, at least in
the Southern Region. All that is required is your ability to prove that you
were in fact the builder. Pictures of you working on and displaying
completed parts, and entries in the aircraft logbook to the effect "Such
and such date, completed left wing." "Such and such date, completed right
wing and both ailerons," etc, will suffice. A lot of guys use a photo
scrapbook and write under the pictures what was happening and when, because
it makes a neat momento several years later. That and the aircraft logbook,
noted as mentioned above, comprise an acceptable and legal document.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
Technical Counselor, EAA 442
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
An easy thing would be if it were fan belt slippage or
perhaps something blocking the cooling air path. I
could see this causing one cylinder to go hot, which
in turn could cause it to expand more and bring on air
leaks, which would explain the high EGT. I don't
think this would explain increased fuel burn though.
It isn't out of the question that you are running at
higher power (even tho still at 4800 rpm), to overcome
abnormal piston/cylinder friction -- and this would
result in greater fuel burn.
The temp differences you report are serious enough
that I'd look into finding the real cause. Looking
further now could prove later to be your cheapest and
safest option.
-Ben Ransom
--- BKlebon(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours
> on the engine. I have a
> dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800
> RPM (normal cruise) I
> noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT
> differential between front and
> rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased
> approx. 20% on this 1 hr
> 45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in
> engine performance as
> compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have
> any
> ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
>
>
>
>
> The Kolb-List is sponsored by Matronics, makers
> of fine Aircraft
> Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> List members.
>
>
> Matronics:
> http://www.matronics.com
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> http://www.matronics.com/other
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
The first thing to check are the plugs, put in new ones and see if this
fixes it. A friend of mine with a FireStar 377 tightened his plugs and
stripped the head. He then put in a heli-coil to fix the problem. That
cylinder ran high in temp compared to the other one and he couldn't
figure out the problem. I told him to replace the head and that worked.
The heli-coil isolated the plug from transferring heat and caused the
high CHT and EGT.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>--- BKlebon(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours
>> on the engine. I have a
>> dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800
>> RPM (normal cruise) I
>> noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT
>> differential between front and
>> rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased
>> approx. 20% on this 1 hr
>> 45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in
>> engine performance as
>> compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have
>> any
>> ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
I would remove the cylinders and inspect them. I suspect you have seized the
hot cylinder. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
Sorry old poops but your engine may have pooped. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Swartz <tswartz(at)desupernet.net> |
| Subject: | 912 stator replacement |
Hi all
I'm in South Eastern PA. Does anyone know where I get the replacement
stator for my 912. Annual is do this month.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 stator replacement |
> I'm in South Eastern PA. Does anyone know where I get the replacement
> stator for my 912. Annual is do this month.
>
> Terry
Terry and Gang:
Any of your friendly Rotax Service Centers, i.e., Green Sky,
South Miss Lt Acft.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: updated seafoam/spray cleaners?? |
Hey Ralph,
So, how many hours do you have on your engine and what size is it? I take my
582 engine apart to decarbon at 150-200 hours, one, because Rotax wants me
to do it at 50 hours intervals, two, because I want to know what is going on
inside, three, it only takes a little time and effort to find out if you are
having a problem sooner rather than later. I check the crank bearings while
I am in there. At 600 hours I replaced the crank because at that inspection
I found that the back rod bearing was beginning to show a little too much
wear. Rotax recomends replacement at 300 hours. So I got twice the life out
of that crank. I do not advocate doing this unless you do the inspections
and you know what to look for. I have a friend that swore by the synthetics
too. He just recently went down with an engine seizure. This is the second
time this has happened. New parts both times. He and a passenger walked away
but the plane will have to be reworked. He also has a 582. All temps and
conditions were normal by the Rotax manual. It may not have even been the
oil. He is looking now for a 912 if anyone has one they want to get rid of.
Yes, reliability is what we look for, but we can't count on all those parts
rolling around in our engines to be perfect when we are all human. Rotax
even makes mistakes, they just can't afford to admit it. Even the parts may
be sub standard when the engines are assembled. This is what I am looking
for.
If there are those out there that are using synthetics oils and they have
1000 hours or more on their engines without any major problems or tear
downs, please by all means let us know, but unless you have these kinds of
hours as proof that the synthetics work, I for one will stick to the old
reliable Pennzoil air-cooled oil. I'm going on 780 hours, second set of
pistons, second crank. The pistons and rings will have 500 hours on them. At
800 hours I will replace the pistons again and check the crankshaft. I don't
expect to find any wear on the crank but I will "reasonable know" before I
reassemble it. Then I can fly about the countryside knowing at least that
the crank is in good shape. I do run my piston clearances a little over what
Rotax recomends just to make sure that the engine doesn't seize again on
long climb outs. That did happen twice before I went to the larger
clearances. It hasn't happened again. Maybe the synthetic oil would have
prevented this, I don't know. It is suppose to keep things a little cooler.
Thanks for the response. It's good to know that someone out there is looking
out for me and giving me options.
Firehawk
>
>Mike (Firehawk), you might switch to an all-synthetic oil and then you
>could eliminate the 150-200 hour teardowns. No question about it, the
>"all-synthetics" are the way to go in the 2-cycle engine. I use the
>Seafoam as an extra precaution.
>
>Nope, not an Amzoil dealer either ...... but .......
>
>reliability is the bottom line.
>
>(I use Klotz all-synthetic KL-216 snowmobile oil, not a dealer for them
>either)
>
>Ralph Burlingame
>Original FireStar, 12 years flying
>
>
>Firehawk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
With 100 hours and one carb it sounds like your gauges are off. They are
wrong most of the time anyway. Even Rotax Tachs will show an increase in rpm
when some Radios are transmitting although the engine speed remains the
same.
Gauges can become inaccurate at the drop of a hat. Air temperature in the
cockpit is the most common cause of inaccuracy. The pin connections are also
another.
If you use dielectric grease on the connections it will help but it want
completely stop them from getting off a little.
Try turning the connections on the pins and try it again. Sometimes this is
all that is necessary to get them working again.
It is my opinion that you are running the 447 way below what is recommended
rpm for cruise. It should be somewhere around 5800 not 4800. The temps will
settle more accurately and your engine will run a lot more efficient. Don't
forget to check the plugs for color.
Let us know what you find out. We need to know too.
Firehawk.
P.S. There was a Ferguson at the Kolb fly-in. :-)
> >
> > I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I have
>a
> >dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
> >noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between front
>and
> >rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this 1
>hr
> >45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance
>as
> >compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
> >ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
>
>>
>> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I have a
>>dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
>>noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between front and
>>rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this 1 hr
>>45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as
>>compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
>>ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
You did not mention if one cylinder got colder or one got hotter. I will
assume hotter. This may be due to a seal giving up. Do a pressure check on
the crankcase to find out.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Shettel <mshettel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
BKlebon(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I have a
> dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
> noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between front and
> rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this 1 hr
> 45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as
> compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
> ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
Does your 447 have the Ducati or Bosch ignition? If its the Bosch, was the
timing re-adjusted at the first 20 hours of operation? The manual says the
cam-follower will wear rapidly initially, hence the required re-adjustment.
Have the cylinder head nuts been re-torqued to specs?
Maurice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DRMusgrove(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
It's easy to see why you would have concern. Okay - lets narrow down the
info:
1) "200 degree EGT" a) Hotter or colder? b) Which cylinder? c) Was the
other cylinder reading 'normal' based on prior operation?
2) "100 degree CHT" Same questions as above...
3) "There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as compared to
previous flights." a) Is there a temp variance at other power settings? b)
Are your idle and WOT rpm's the same as previous?
The answers should give us a better starting place. Although we could
suggest 101 things to check, and it wouldn't hurt to check them, they would
slow the progress of finding the direct cause of these specific symptoms.
David M.
--- BKlebon(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours
> on the engine. I have a dual EGT/CHT. During the
> last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
> noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT
> differential between front and rear cylinders.
> The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20%
> on this 1 hr 45 min flight. There appeared to be no
> difference in engine performance as compared to
> previous flights. Anyone out there have any
> ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
>P.S. There was a Ferguson at the Kolb fly-in. :-)
>
>
Where? Nearest I saw to a fergy and not a Kolb was posums Viper. He said
it was a hybred but did not admit it to being a fergy.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Steinhagen" <bsteinhagen(at)itol.com> |
| Subject: | cruise rpms & noise levels |
I've been flying my FS-2 for over two yrs and would like some prop advice.
I have a 503 with an IVO. I weigh approx 200 lb. It seems that it takes
5500-5800 rpm to maintain altitude and a reasonable cruise (over 60mph). I
would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I find
the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
I
> would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I find
> the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
> sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
>
Bruce and Kolbers:
Let me add my two and a half cents worth reference propping
2 cycle engines for airplanes. I do it the same way for
boats and props as I do for airplanes and props. Straight
and level, WOT (wide open throttle), should give you just
enough rpm to bump the red line.
I find if I do that with the 2 cycle engines, the result is
the best climb, cruise, fuel burn, temps, endurance (between
overhauls), etc., etc., etc. I have found out over the last
15 years through a lot of trial and error that a 2 cyl eng
out of the box that is properly propped with not need any
jetting or plug heat range changes. Also very little
adjustment of any kind.
Want to do it your way. OK!!! ;-)
The eng performs best at 5800 rpm and above, not below.
Over prop it and you are doing the same thing as driving
around at 25 mph in 5th gear in my old Dodge Cummins diesel,
or any other engine for that matter.
I don't treat them as Continentals or Lycomings. My 912 is
happiest at 5000 to 5500 rpm. It has been happy for 1,077.9
hours, as of an hour or so ago. Just flew back from
Evergreen, Al. First time ever I had to leave Miss P'fer
and hitch hike home. Drove back down to fly her home
today. What a beautiful day to fly. White puffy clouds
from 5,000 to 6,500 feet. Shortest route home was over MGM
and Maxwell AFB. Had to fly over 6,000 to stay out of their
control zone. I was in my dream world. Only problem, I
didn't put on my flight jacket and had goose bumps most of
the flight. Makes all that work worthwhile.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Carr" <dcarr(at)uniontel.net> |
"Kolb-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/10/99 |
.Hey Fella's I just tried to go to the Kolb web page
(http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/ and I get some student body web page at
Kentucky.Did they change their web address?
Dave Carr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Site Hacked |
> Looks like the Kolb Web Site may have been hacked.
>
> Either that or TNK folded the tent.
>
Dean and Gang:
Brother Jim told me earlier that Kolb has Mindspring as
their new ISP. I just sent him a msg to see if that may be
the problem with the web page. If Norm is monitoring the
List, he will let us know what the problem is and when they
will be back up.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Steinhagen" <bsteinhagen(at)itol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
You all have reinforced what I suspected. I've got massive climp pitch
dialed in. I know I can exceed 6500 and yet never viewed it as a problem
since I have always powered back immediately after takeoff.
----------
> From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: cruise rpms & noise levels
> Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:52 PM
>
>
> I
> > would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I
find
> > the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
> > sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
> >
>
> Bruce and Kolbers:
>
> Let me add my two and a half cents worth reference propping
> 2 cycle engines for airplanes. I do it the same way for
> boats and props as I do for airplanes and props. Straight
> and level, WOT (wide open throttle), should give you just
> enough rpm to bump the red line.
>
> I find if I do that with the 2 cycle engines, the result is
> the best climb, cruise, fuel burn, temps, endurance (between
> overhauls), etc., etc., etc. I have found out over the last
> 15 years through a lot of trial and error that a 2 cyl eng
> out of the box that is properly propped with not need any
> jetting or plug heat range changes. Also very little
> adjustment of any kind.
>
> Want to do it your way. OK!!! ;-)
>
> The eng performs best at 5800 rpm and above, not below.
>
> Over prop it and you are doing the same thing as driving
> around at 25 mph in 5th gear in my old Dodge Cummins diesel,
> or any other engine for that matter.
>
> I don't treat them as Continentals or Lycomings. My 912 is
> happiest at 5000 to 5500 rpm. It has been happy for 1,077.9
> hours, as of an hour or so ago. Just flew back from
> Evergreen, Al. First time ever I had to leave Miss P'fer
> and hitch hike home. Drove back down to fly her home
> today. What a beautiful day to fly. White puffy clouds
> from 5,000 to 6,500 feet. Shortest route home was over MGM
> and Maxwell AFB. Had to fly over 6,000 to stay out of their
> control zone. I was in my dream world. Only problem, I
> didn't put on my flight jacket and had goose bumps most of
> the flight. Makes all that work worthwhile.
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
The end seals can cause this as suggested below. When it happens it
usually impacts the temps on the end that leaking but not necessarily. The
head gasket still may be the problem.
Have you temporarily swapped the EGT probes between the two cylinder to
very the probes and that the cylinder is actually producing higher temps.
Just remove the probes from the manifold and install them in each others
original position. Return them to their original position as you complete
the test. Don't change the wiring.
I do feel you should inspect the rings to make sure their free.
jerryb
>
>>
>>>
>>> I have a Firestar II with a 447 Rotax. 100 hours on the engine. I
have a
>>>dual EGT/CHT. During the last flight, while a 4,800 RPM (normal cruise) I
>>>noticed a 200 degree EGT and a 100 degree CHT differential between
front and
>>>rear cylinders. The fuel consumption also increased approx. 20% on this
1 hr
>>>45 min flight. There appeared to be no difference in engine performance as
>>>compared to previous flights. Anyone out there have any
>>>ideas/suggestions/snake oil remedies?
>
> You did not mention if one cylinder got colder or one got hotter. I will
>assume hotter. This may be due to a seal giving up. Do a pressure check on
>the crankcase to find out.
>
>
> Woody
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
In a message dated 10/11/99 5:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bsteinhagen(at)itol.com writes:
<< I've been flying my FS-2 for over two yrs and would like some prop advice.
I have a 503 with an IVO. I weigh approx 200 lb. It seems that it takes
5500-5800 rpm to maintain altitude and a reasonable cruise (over 60mph). I
would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I find
the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
>>
Then by all means repitch it by turning your repitch adjustment a full
turn...just don't turn it 5 turns like i DID and barely made it over the
trees at the end of 2000 ft!!. I do admit, however, i was lolligaging on the
takoff and didn't get serious about going "up" until after 2/3 of the runway
was used up.
You will be AMAZED at the difference...even though you can't see any pitch
change in the prop....( I have a 3 bladed Ivo also on my 447) . I feel like
ol rotax is enjoying the flight as much as me with its loafing sound!! It
never hits 6800 anymore as it used to, About 6500 at peak now is my peak
rpm....I probably should take it up a little.....
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
>I would like to know if anyone has used any plumbing to and heat to the
>cabin of the mk 3. Any information or materials used routing radiator fans
>(or heater core). Any info is appreciated
I added heat last winter, here is a re-post of something I sent then:
Cabin heat is coolant-heat supplied by tapping into the cooling system with a
couple "T"s and a valve, about 25 feet of hose, and the heater core built of a
125 cc moto-bike radiator layed on its side and mated to a 2-speed 12volt blower
with some custom-built ducting. The core and blower package must be very small
in order to fit in the nose. A guy I know sells these type of arrangements
pre-built but they are too big to put in the nose of the MKiii, and so must be
mounted in the back area. This results in much shorter coolant lines (This is
a
big advantage!), but also shifts the CG backwards. I needed 6-8 lbs up front
anyway so my heater works out good. It was a lot of work to get it to fit and
it does offer many more coolant-system failure points. For some piece of mind,
I added a small coolant pressure gauge, to monitor it. If I spring a leak, I
may notice the gauge and shut it down in time to avoid overheat. The only other
problem I see right now is that the 582 just does not make much heat. The block
and exhaust pipe can cool about half of its needs, so the radiators don't get
many BTUs. I added a valve so I could disable one of the two radiators when
using cabin heat, and may partially block surface area of the other, this winter
will be the test, don't have that answer yet. If it does not work, I will
remove it to make the cooling system simpler again.
1999 update...
Tests have shown that the cabin is very comfortable with the heater on, if the
radiator area is sufficiently reduced to keep engine temp at about 180. To
accomplish this, I turn off one radiator at ambient temps below 60, and below 40
I cover half of the remaining Rotax dual radiator with cardboard and ducttape.
I want to add a simple cable-operated louver to the radiator, to allow in-flight
cooling adjustments.
The heater core (125cc moto bike radiator from local repair shop) had three
fittings on it, two for 5/8" heater hose, and one for a 1/4" vent line. The
5/8" fittings became the inlet and outlet of course, and the 1/4" fitting became
the obvious tap for the pressure gauge. The lines from the engine are Napa 5/8"
heater hose, insulated the whole distance with closed-cell foam pipe insulation
from the local furnace shop (airconditioning parts). I purchased Kynar plastic
fittings from McMaster mail order for as many of the fittings as possible to
save weight, and the remaining fittings had to be brass. Two valves are
installed, to turn off the flow thru the heater and to turn off the flow thru
one of the two Rotax radiators. A two-speed blower was used, and ducted
together with the core by custom fitting sheet aluminum parts and rivetting and
then sealing gaps with caulk, painted black it disappears in the nose area, and
is set to simply blast on my feet. I fly very comfortably with only a light
jacket and no gloves, in temps below freezing for hours, so far. It is very
effective.
If you wish to heat the cabin to temps warm enough to wear only a light jacket,
in very cold weather (below freezing), your cabin must seal pretty well. I
still have two very small leaks and they suck a lot of heat. You will have to
"seal" the fuselage tube somehow, because the negative pressure in the cabin
will draw cold air in thru the tube if it is open. I have enclosed the rear of
the cabin completely so my main leaks are the door hinges and doors in general
(but they are not too bad).
A simpler idea is to use the waste heat off the muffler, and duct warm air only,
using the muffler-wrap idea (it has been described, in archives).
Or, if you wish to purchase a heater, call Dick:
The Max Heater
Designed & operational for water cooled engines
in closed cockpit experimental & ultralight planes.
specs.
12 volt
3.5 amps
under 4 lbs of weight
fan motor
easy installation
one is also available for a 503 fan cooled engine.
I'm not sure but it may work on a 447 or a 377 as well
Phone (507) 367-4559
ask for Dick
Hope this helps,
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
>
>I've been flying my FS-2 for over two yrs and would like some prop advice.
>I have a 503 with an IVO. I weigh approx 200 lb. It seems that it takes
>5500-5800 rpm to maintain altitude and a reasonable cruise (over 60mph). I
>would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I find
>the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
>sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
>
>
Set max takeoff rpm at 6000-6300
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Differences |
I hear that Possums play dead in the face of danger.
Although it may have been a knock off of a Fergy. :-)
There will be at least one at SMLA this coming weekend.
Firehawk
>From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Temperature Differences
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:30:09 -0400
>
>
> >P.S. There was a Ferguson at the Kolb fly-in. :-)
> >
> >
>
> Where? Nearest I saw to a fergy and not a Kolb was posums Viper. He said
>it was a hybred but did not admit it to being a fergy.
>
>
> Woody
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
Stay where you are at. 6500 is peak power, 6800 is max power. There is a
difference. Economy, power and temps will be in a safer range.
Firehawk
>From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: cruise rpms & noise levels
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:42:34 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 10/11/99 5:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>bsteinhagen(at)itol.com writes:
>
><< I've been flying my FS-2 for over two yrs and would like some prop
>advice.
> I have a 503 with an IVO. I weigh approx 200 lb. It seems that it takes
> 5500-5800 rpm to maintain altitude and a reasonable cruise (over 60mph).
>I
> would love to repitch to get the same performance at 5200-5300 rpm. I
>find
> the climb performance to be more than adequate and would willing to
> sacrifice a little to "gain" on the other end.
> >>
>Then by all means repitch it by turning your repitch adjustment a full
>turn...just don't turn it 5 turns like i DID and barely made it over the
>trees at the end of 2000 ft!!. I do admit, however, i was lolligaging on
>the
>takoff and didn't get serious about going "up" until after 2/3 of the
>runway
>was used up.
>You will be AMAZED at the difference...even though you can't see any pitch
>change in the prop....( I have a 3 bladed Ivo also on my 447) . I feel like
>ol rotax is enjoying the flight as much as me with its loafing sound!! It
>never hits 6800 anymore as it used to, About 6500 at peak now is my peak
>rpm....I probably should take it up a little.....
>GeoR38
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard neilsen" <NEILSENR(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Mark III Flight Training -Reply |
As a G/A pilot that has transition to a MKIII there is one major change in technique
that will help. On approach and landing keep some power on. The MKIII has
less inertia and more drag than you are used to. No matter how much you plan
for it the flare for landing will be too high and/or too slow. With power on
your landing will be more like what you are trained for. You still can't start
your flair at 50' but you descend to 2' at a more normal closure rate and even
experience floating in ground effect. Then gradually reduce power till you land,
then and only then chop the power. Someone else who has the same engine should
be able to give you a approach RPM, on my VW powered MKIII I cruse at 3100RPM
and land at 2100RPM. Generally find a RPM that gives you a normal G/A pattern
approach. After you have completed a bunch of landings try lower power settings
and maybe one notch of flaps but do this very slowly.
I had a demonstration ride with a VERY good (MKIII experienced) pilot that did
a idle power full flap landing at full+ gross weight. The closure rate to the
ground down to app 10' was breath taking (seemed like 45 degrees at 2000ft/min),
as a G/A pilot I was sure we were going to be a smoking hole. The landing was
perfect and we rolled app20'....Wow. Don't try this at home.
Hope this helps
Rick Neilsen
VW powered MKIII
>>> "Johann G. Johannsson" 10/10/99 04:50pm >>>
Hi List members.
My friend here in Iceland is just about ready to do his first flight on
his Mark III.........
He is an experienced G/A pilot and has been flying all around the island
in all kinds of weather and taking pictures of volcano eruptions, which
is his favorite :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BILLBEAM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Another Kentucky fly in |
For those around Kentucky area, there is a flyin at the Stanton
Airport this weekend. It is sponsored by the Bluegrass Ultralight
Group. (BUG). Plenty of asphalt for landings. Beautiful area near
Natural Bridge, in the foothills of the Appalachians. It's about 40 miles
South East of Lexington.
Bring those Kolbs as we are outnumbered by Q-silvers.
Bill Beams
Wilmore Ky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Report: Rotax dual-radiator cap failure |
I have the Rotax dual radiator on the 582 on the MKiii, now with 102 hours on
it. One month ago, I noticed the coolant pressure was running greater than 15
psi. (it really never should go this high with a 0.9 bar (13 psi) cap). I
suspected the cap and ordered a new one from LEAF. In the mean time I disected
the original one and found what I believed to be the problem. The brass shaft
that the pressure-sealing piston slides up and down on had a vibration-induced
groove worn all the way around it and this caused the piston to catch (not slide
freely) when I was moving it with my thumb. As an experiment I took a needle
file and filed out the worn groove and made the piston slide freely again. I
tried the reconditioned cap on the engine again and it worked fine, with
pressures of 13 and below at all times. A few days later the new cap came so I
installed it (with safety wire) and AMAZINGLY I had extremely high pressures
again, with the NEW cap from LEAF. Pressure went higher than my gauge could
read, to something greater than 16 psi. I immediately landed and shut down,
cooled down, and replaced cap with old stock reconditioned cap again and took
off to find pressures normal. The new cap from LEAF is possibly not even a
Rotax part as it has English writing on it instead of the German. And I am
pretty certain it is not a 0.9 bar cap even though it has "0.9" stamped into it.
I will be testing it (with pressure testing rig, not in the engine again).
Lessons learned:
1. Coolant pressure gauge is not optional. I have not seen temps over 185, even
when pressures were off the scale. If left to run this way, it would blow
either the rotary valve shaft seals or something worse like a gasket or hose.
Must always have working coolant pressure gauge.
2. Just because LEAF charges $28 like an expensive Rotax imported part, doesn't
mean it IS the correct Rotax part.
3. I will be buying a pressure-testing rig, to test new caps and yearly test
entire system.
4. I wish to cross-reference the rotax cap to a Napa number to buy caps
locally, CAN ANYONE HELP ME OUT HERE?
While we're on the subject, can anyone help provide the Napa number for the
thermostat? I asked the price of the Rotax thermostat while on the phone with
LEAF, and was told to "sit down because the price is $54!". Thats $54. And
they suggest you replace it yearly because the solder fails and it falls in half
from fatigue.
Thanks for any info you can provide...
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report: Rotax dual-radiator cap failure |
>While we're on the subject, can anyone help provide the Napa number for the
>thermostat? I asked the price of the Rotax thermostat while on the phone with
>LEAF, and was told to "sit down because the price is $54!". Thats $54. And
>they suggest you replace it yearly because the solder fails and it falls in
>half
>from fatigue.
>Thanks for any info you can provide...
> Jim G
>
I was once told that Evinrude has a thermostat that works in the 582,
I will check this winter while I have the engine down for maintanance.
Richrad Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report: Rotax dual-radiator cap failure |
> 2. Just because LEAF charges $28 like an expensive Rotax imported part, doesn't
> mean it IS the correct Rotax part.
> 4. I wish to cross-reference the rotax cap to a Napa number to buy caps
> locally, CAN ANYONE HELP ME OUT HERE?
> LEAF, and was told to "sit down because the price is $54!". Thats $54. And
> they suggest you replace it yearly because the solder fails and it falls in half
> from fatigue.
Jim
Jim and Gang:
Price gouging and ULs go hand in hand it seems. Many of us
got into ULs to be able to afford to fly, not make LEAF,
CPS, and ROTAX millionaires. $28 for a radiator cap, $54
for a thermostat, $25 for an oil fil, who are they trying to
kid. I pay $2.50 for a Fram filter at WalMart. Was running
a PH3614, but now they have a PH3600 that has more
capacity. I also run the PH3600 in my Onan RV generator.
After more than 1,000 hours in both Onan and 912, I have no
oil related problems. Rotax folks told me or I read in one
of our pubs that I should not use any oil fil except their
gold plated ones because there was a special pressure
valve/bypass valve in theirs. Yeppppppppppp. Probably a
special pressure relief valve in the $25 radiator cap.
I am still looking for another source, besides Rotax, for
NGK DCPR7E plugs for my 912. A few years back I scoured the
earth and could find no other supplier. Even contacted NGK
US Distributor with no luck. Give us a holler if you find a
source for any of these outrageously priced parts at a
reasonable price.
Ron Collins is flying his Sling Shot with 582 and a single
912 radiator mounted on the root tube in front of the
engine. More than enough cooling capacity at half the
price. Go to a local radiator shop and get into there parts
books. They have radiators of all discriptions.
Remember, oil coolers on 912s are on the suction side of the
oil pump, so there is no worry about blowing oil hoses off
or coolers up. There is vacuumn, not pressure between oil
tank and pump.
Now the rest of the story. Bought a Mikuni fuel pump
rebuild kit from LEAF in 1989, as a spare to fly to New
England and Oshkosh in my Firestar. At Bill Lock's Flight
Farm in NY I decided to go ahead and put the new diaphram in
the pump. Took off to cut a roll of toilet paper. As I
stretched to make the last cut at aprx 100 feet the engine
quit. Fuel starvation. Made a good forced landing in hay
field. Replaced the new diaphram with the old. Flew the
rest of my trip and made it back to Alabama ok. LEAF was
selling bogus Rotax parts back then. This was not a Mikuni
part. Did a comparison and it was easy to see that the
quality of the copy part was way below standard for a real
Mikuni Part. When confronted with this on my return, I was
sent a refund and no explanation why they charged me for a
Mikuni part and sold me a cheap copy.
I guess the UL parts suppliers will continue to charge and
sell us grossly overpriced parts as long as we keep giving
them our credit card numbers.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
B. Reg.No.: 444YB M/M: EXP Desc: EXP/HMBLT:
1993 RANS S-10 SAKO
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Take-off GA-A/C: General
Aviation
Descr: EXPERIMENTAL ACFT LOST POWER AFTER TAKE-OFF AND SUNK
INTO TURF ON A
PRIVATE STRIP, THE STRUTS WERE DRIVEN THROUGH THE
WINGS WHEN THE
ACFT CONTACTED THE GROUND, OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES ARE
UNKNOWN, HUDSON,
CO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Gang:
Above extracted from FAA Preliminary Accident Briefs.
Makes me glad I fly Kolbs. Was wondering how strong the
lift strut attach points were were on that aircraft.
Aircraft hit ground hard enough to drive lift struts (two on
each wing) thru the wings with no injuries reported by the
crew.
john h
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report: Rotax dual-radiator cap failure |
>
>
>Ron Collins is flying his Sling Shot with 582 and a single
>912 radiator mounted on the root tube in front of the
>engine. More than enough cooling capacity at half the
>price. Go to a local radiator shop and get into there parts
>books. They have radiators of all discriptions.
Got my 532 radiator from a motorcycle junkyard. Came off
an old 750 Honda V-twin, same size and thickness as
the one in the CPS catalog, works perfect. $50
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tnkolb home page email |
What is the new web address for The New Kolb?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tnkolb home page email |
Lee and Gang:
Same as the old address: http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: good things are happening! |
Hi guys,
I had a fantastic flying day sat. Ifly out of Aeropark in Sussex WI. and the
weather was as good as it gets. I'm the guy that had the 2si engine in a FS2
but i could never get it dialed in. (never solved the egt problem) On my
wife's insistence,I bought a new 503. What a machine! She climbs like a
rocket. Time to put some real hours on this plane. Next step is N numbers.
Happy
flying
John
Bruzan
Chicago FS2 14hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cruise rpms & noise levels |
In a message dated 10/12/99 11:51:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
firehawk54(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Stay where you are at. 6500 is peak power, 6800 is max power. There is a
difference. Economy, power and temps will be in a safer range.
Firehawk >>
Thanks Firehawk, I expect no truer words were ever spoken...as my egt and
RPMs are way down and my speed is way up compared to the old flat pitch that
I flew with for 4 years for some stupid reason........... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
It looked like a perfect night to fly here in southern Minnesota.
So I did a few fast taxi runs, stopped to put on a yaw string
did one more fast taxi run & then gave the gas to my 503 and up I went.
It was about 1 hour before sun set, I went around the patch once & then
noticed (I was a little nervous) there was not a bump in the sky.
The first pass over the runway was done at about 60 feet. The second
pass I was going to land. but my twinstar does not sink as fast as
the Rans I was taking lessons in. So I gave it some gas and went
around again. The next time (and the last) was a good landing, no bounce,
and I had enough runway to stop without using my Fred flinstone breaks.
This is an old open twinstar.
I have has this for about 3 years or so. Things just didn't work out the
first few years.
I had my hanger cave in from snow, it took a summer to rebuild the plane.
Then I
work a lot & it was hard to get lessons. I had abut 6 hours of lessons. 4
hours of
them about 3 years ago. So this year I told myself either I fly or I sell.
So I think I
can keep it now.
Mark
PS. THIS IS FUN !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use (of Nightsun lites) with an alternator power source |
I checked out this product on several websits . . . please don't
spend a lot of bux purchasing these things for adaptation to
airplanes.
The bulbs used in their fixtures are plain vanilla halogen
spot/flood devices not unlike the one you'll see at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg
These bulbs have built in reflectors and come in a wide
variety of wattages and beam spreads. The 12V rated lamps
are used by the thousands in product displays in stores
and are quite inexpensive. One might also consider using
a common automotive headlamp like the one I show at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg
This lamp is 55w, very compact, the right shape for leading
edge incorporation and a whold lot less expensive than the
Nightsun products.
The respondant's concerns about "regulation of the vehicle"
shows lack of knowledge of how things are supposed to work.
It's true that a bulb's life varies strongly with voltage.
For example, running a bulb a 95% of its rated value doubles
the life, 105% of rated value halves the life. HOWEVER,
given that these bulbs are designed for thousands of hours
service in high duty cycle service like storefronts should
mitigate the builder's concerns for service life . . . especially
since the 4509 lamp used in tens of thousands of certified
ships has a service life on the order of 10-20 hours!
Check out the light bulbs I've suggested above and do some
poking around on your own in the lighting sections of hardware
stores and automotive suppliers . . .
> FYI
> With regard to the recent post about the Nitesun biking lighting......I
>asked them if these type of lights could be used with an alternator as a
>power source. Their response is below.
>
>--------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: "Nightsun" <night-sun(at)mail.wman.com>
>To: Dana Hill
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 09:24:09 +0000
>Subject: Re: Use on a car?
>Message-ID: <199910101625.JAA07838(at)home.wman.com>
>
>Might work ok, but what wories me is the voltage regulation of the
>vehicle. Some alternators / voltage regulators but out upto 16 vdc,
>way too much for our bulbs. Upto about 14 will work, but the lamp
>life will be shortened, over 14 and the lamp life would be very
>short. Most airplanes are 28 volt.
> In any event we do not sell headlights without batteries.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Nightsun
>
>To: info@night-sun.com
>Subject: Use on a car?
>From: Dana Hill <dhill36(at)juno.com>
>
>Hi Night-Sun,
> I would like to know if your lighting system could be hardwired into
> a
>14 Volt DC charging system, such as a car/airplane? Would this sort
>of mod be difficult? Any info in this regard would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Dana Hill
>
>Customer Service, Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Pacific time
>626-799-5074
>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulky, unreadable files |
>Hi netters.
>
>I hate to be a whiner, but I got two files in the Vol 01, Number 509
>Glastarnet that flat filled up my bit bucket. I had to stop and empty it
>before the computer would work again. I could name names, but I won't. One
>was a WINMAIL.DAT file, and the other was MIME. Please, please look at what
>you are putting out to avoid this problem. I know, I know. I had trouble
>passing "Works and plays well with others" too.
>
>Bobbi & Ric Lasher
>#5648 BN954BR
>Cocoa, Fl.
I subscribe to about a dozen list-servers so it takes quite
a bit of time to download ordinary message traffic. If a couple
of folks attach a few hundred K-bytes of "information" it
really slows things down and increases the risk of problems
like Rich describes.
There is an EASY way to avoid this for most folks. If you have
a real internet access account with server hardrive space,
you can upload large files to your server and then give people
pointers on how to find them. For example, click on this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg
You need an FTP program and little instruction which your ISP
provider should be able to provide. You'll gain a new skill,
a new tool for effective communications and avoid forcing
our friends to download data which may be of no interest.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use (of Nightsun lites) with an alternator power |
source
> Check out the light bulbs I've suggested above and do some
> poking around on your own in the lighting sections of hardware
> stores and automotive suppliers . . .
>
Hey Gang:
I experimented with almost every conceiveable landing light
I could think of from the automotive world. However, I was
not satisfied until I ended up with a GE4509, standard
replacement landing light, I mounted in a WalMart Special
housing after I removed the original junk halogen bulb and
reflector. None of the others could come any where near the
performance of the 4509. Short life 10-20 hours? No
problem. Normally do not fly at night. When I get caught
out and need the light it is only on for a minute or two. I
did burn one out after a flight to OSH and back to Alabama.
Voltage Reg went belly up right after I departed Alabama.
Good side and bad side. Alternator went to full charge. To
keep from melting down the electrical system I started
turning on electrical loads until I got the volt meter down
to aprx 13 V. On return flight flew until well after dark
(pitch black). Landed in and spent the night in a small
airport in Kentucky. Got up the next morning, headed out
for Alabama. Started loading up the alternator to get the
volts down near normal. Ten minutes or less into the flight
the landing light blew. Would not have been nice for that
to happen the night before. Taking big risk flying with one
landing light on really dark nights.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use (of Nightsun lites) with an alternator power source |
>The respondant's concerns about "regulation of the vehicle"
shows lack of knowledge of how things are supposed to work.<
This could have been "toned down a bit" I think. Were here to help each
other. I hope.
Mike Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: well, I did it. |
In a message dated 10/14/99 4:43:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mhqqqqq(at)aol.com
writes:
<< So I think I
can keep it now.
Mark
PS. THIS IS FUN !
>>
Of course it is.....don't sell.....do! ...... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use (of Nightsun lites) with an alternator power |
source
In a message dated 10/14/99 10:27:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Voltage Reg went belly up right after I departed Alabama.
Good side and bad side. Alternator went to full charge. To
keep from melting down the electrical system I started
turning on electrical loads until I got the volt meter down
to aprx 13 V. >>
you know your business Jonathon!!........ never a dull moment! GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
Greetings Kolb fans
Yesterday I took some time to update my builders log on the web. I also
added some links to FireStar pictures found on the internet.
As soon as I'm done with the ailerons Dave Rains is going to help me connect
the tail boom with the fuselage, any advice on this operation is appreciated.
Will Uribe
http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
BTW: I was asked if I had already mounted the instruments.
When looking at the aileron building pictures you will see the nose cone with
some instrument, they are print outs not the actual installations.
Do not achieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net> |
Thanks John;
I'm glad you let me know that this is a common problem with the 447. My friend
has an older 447 on a Drifter with belt drive and doesn't have this problem. So
he dosen't understand why it acts this way.
I did change the idle jet to a #40 to be able to get the adjustment screw into
a
reasonable range. Now I have it set at 1/2 turn open like the manual recommends
and it does idle somewhat better. I have followed your advice and keep the idle
at 2200 rpm now. With the factory #45 idle jet I had to have the adjustment
screw out to 2 1/2 turns and still didn't have good idle.
Tried running the jet needle at the third notch down to get cooler EGT's which
worked. Had temps of 1050 and 1100 with CHT's of 300. But I then noticed that
my exhaust port was showing carbon deposits. Pulled the plugs and the color was
too dark, so I put the clip on the jet needle back to the second notch from the
top again. I'm running EGT's of 1100 and 1150 with CHT's of 325.
Is this within reason? Engine is performing beautifully as is my FireFly. I
now have 33 hrs. on it and loving every minute
Thank God for you guys on the list. Rotax manual supplied with the engine has
little in it and Kolb moved away from my back door. Rotax manual dosen't even
mention EGT's. I live out in the country and don't have many kolb fliers to
consult with.
Thanks, Terry K.
John Yates wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:53 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Rough idle
>
> Hello Terry
> The 447 is notorious for not idling as well as the other Rotax engines 2100
> to 2200 rpm is about right to keep the engine running smooth and not shaking
> the airplane. I have used 1150 as a limit for EGT some times on finial when
> the power is pulled back the temp will show 1200 just for a moment. so shoot
> for 1150 max 1200 EGT.
> Hope this helps.
> John
>
> >
> >Since I first fired up the 447 Rotax on my new FireFly it has been
> >impossible to get it to idle smoothly. I have done everything that more
> >experienced owners have told me. Talked to the Rotax dealer at Oshkosh.
> >
> >I'm swinging a Tennessee wood prop, 66" dia. x 30 pitch, supplied by
> >Kolb. When first operating the engine, had to turn out air mixture
> >screw to 2 1/2 turns to stop the shaking. Also had to keep the rpm at
> >2200 or above. Have since installed a smaller, #40, idle jet and have
> >been able to turn the air mixture screw to 3/4 to 1 turn open for best
> >idle, but must still maintain 2200 rpm. Still not smooth like the other
> >guys when theirs are at idle. Engine runs fine at all other settings,
> >staying within cylinder temp limits Rotax recommends.
> >
> >That the other question. I am getting conflicting information on
> >exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
> >Could use some good guide lines.
> >
> >Thanks: Terry K.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> |
We have a FireFly with the 447. The 1100 & 1150 sound find. You might
notice that when you pull power back to mid range you might see some higher
temps (1200). We try to stay out of that area as much as possible. Were
have over 100 hours on ours and the engine has been rock solid.
Happy flying
jerryb
>
>Thanks John;
>
>I'm glad you let me know that this is a common problem with the 447. My
friend
>has an older 447 on a Drifter with belt drive and doesn't have this
problem. So
>he dosen't understand why it acts this way.
>
>I did change the idle jet to a #40 to be able to get the adjustment screw
into a
>reasonable range. Now I have it set at 1/2 turn open like the manual
recommends
>and it does idle somewhat better. I have followed your advice and keep
the idle
>at 2200 rpm now. With the factory #45 idle jet I had to have the adjustment
>screw out to 2 1/2 turns and still didn't have good idle.
>
>Tried running the jet needle at the third notch down to get cooler EGT's
which
>worked. Had temps of 1050 and 1100 with CHT's of 300. But I then noticed
that
>my exhaust port was showing carbon deposits. Pulled the plugs and the
color was
>too dark, so I put the clip on the jet needle back to the second notch
from the
>top again. I'm running EGT's of 1100 and 1150 with CHT's of 325.
>
>Is this within reason? Engine is performing beautifully as is my FireFly. I
>now have 33 hrs. on it and loving every minute
>
>Thank God for you guys on the list. Rotax manual supplied with the engine
has
>little in it and Kolb moved away from my back door. Rotax manual dosen't
even
>mention EGT's. I live out in the country and don't have many kolb fliers to
>consult with.
>
>Thanks, Terry K.
>
>John Yates wrote:
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:53 AM
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Rough idle
>>
>> Hello Terry
>> The 447 is notorious for not idling as well as the other Rotax engines 2100
>> to 2200 rpm is about right to keep the engine running smooth and not
shaking
>> the airplane. I have used 1150 as a limit for EGT some times on finial when
>> the power is pulled back the temp will show 1200 just for a moment. so
shoot
>> for 1150 max 1200 EGT.
>> Hope this helps.
>> John
>>
>> >
>> >Since I first fired up the 447 Rotax on my new FireFly it has been
>> >impossible to get it to idle smoothly. I have done everything that more
>> >experienced owners have told me. Talked to the Rotax dealer at Oshkosh.
>> >
>> >I'm swinging a Tennessee wood prop, 66" dia. x 30 pitch, supplied by
>> >Kolb. When first operating the engine, had to turn out air mixture
>> >screw to 2 1/2 turns to stop the shaking. Also had to keep the rpm at
>> >2200 or above. Have since installed a smaller, #40, idle jet and have
>> >been able to turn the air mixture screw to 3/4 to 1 turn open for best
>> >idle, but must still maintain 2200 rpm. Still not smooth like the other
>> >guys when theirs are at idle. Engine runs fine at all other settings,
>> >staying within cylinder temp limits Rotax recommends.
>> >
>> >That the other question. I am getting conflicting information on
>> >exhaust gas temp. My Rotax manual doesn't even mention this temp.
>> >Could use some good guide lines.
>> >
>> >Thanks: Terry K.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: well, I did it. |
Good for you. It's guys like you, telling about your accomplishments that
keeps the rest of us building and working for our turn. Have lot's more
fun, and let us know about it. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mhqqqqq(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 1:41 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: well, I did it.
>
> It looked like a perfect night to fly here in southern Minnesota.
> So I did a few fast taxi runs, stopped to put on a yaw string
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
I'm running EGT's of 1100 and 1150 with CHT's of 325.
>
>Is this within reason? Engine is performing beautifully as is my FireFly. I
>now have 33 hrs. on it and loving every minute
You are correct in using your plugs to tell the story of your engine
performance. Those temps will probably be okay. The plugs will tell you. EGT
just gives you a point to start guessing from as it is to variable depending
on probe location.
>
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Guess everyone is playing Possum. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: well, I did it. |
Keep up the good work, Mark. I soloed last memorial day and the feeling was
on par with the adoption of my daughter. Ithink I'm hooked. The building
process really was fun and now i have the challenge of flying my creation!
lots of
luck,
John
Bruzan FS2 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, John
When I gain some proficiency I will take you up on your offer
to go to Door county. My skis(for the plane) are ready so I am all set for
year round flying. Last winter I flew Bill's MK III on skis- what a great
time
Take care
guys
John
Bruzan FS2 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | year-2000(at)mindspring.com |
>
>
>>P.S. There was a Ferguson at the Kolb fly-in. :-)
>>
>>
>
> Where? Nearest I saw to a fergy and not a Kolb was posums Viper. He said
>it was a hybred but did not admit it to being a fergy.
Maybe I new but who is a fergy/viper etc?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
You don't wanna know ! ! ! Honest - - - don't get that going again ! ! !
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <year-2000(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 8:40 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fergy
>
> >
> >
> >>P.S. There was a Ferguson at the Kolb fly-in. :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Where? Nearest I saw to a fergy and not a Kolb was posums Viper. He
said
> >it was a hybred but did not admit it to being a fergy.
>
> Maybe I new but who is a fergy/viper etc?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shane Smith Memorial Flyin, Lucedale, Ms |
Hi Gang:
Stopped by South Mississippi Light Aircraft yesterday afternoon on the
way home from work. Boy was I excited when I saw Ms P'fer. She is even
prettier up close than in a picture. I only got to talk to John Hauck for a
minute as I was meeting another gentleman who wanted to look at my Mark II.
I'm fixin to head back over to SMLA to watch the days activities and
hopefully meet and talk to alot of folks. Appeared to be 20 or so planes
getting ready for the activities. I saw two Kolb's, some Quick's,
Challenger, Titan, Team Mini Max, Max Air Drifter, A Gyro copter, and of
course the M Squared. I'm sure they were some more that I missed. I didn't
see Michael Highsmith yesterday. He may be digging a hole to crawl in to
hide from that hurricane that's coming in on Florida. I'll give ya'll
another report tonight if possible.
Later,
John Cooley
> Finally time to load up and take off for Mississippi.
> Am looking forward to seeing some of you all eye ball to eye
> ball. Those that can not make it, wish you could.
> john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
A
>
>Maybe I new but who is a fergy/viper etc?
>
Fergy is a Ferguson. A similar looking aircraft to the Mk111. Some say it
is a poor rip off. The Viper I saw for the first time at the Kolb flyin and
was told it was a one off hybred of a bunch of different things. It looks
like a Kolb.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
You can see the Viper at
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
In a message dated 10/16/99 8:52:00 AM Mountain Daylight Time, FS 2 Kolb
writes:
>
> A
> >
> >Maybe I new but who is a fergy/viper etc?
> >
>
>
> Fergy is a Ferguson. A similar looking aircraft to the Mk111. Some say it
> is a poor rip off. The Viper I saw for the first time at the Kolb flyin and
> was told it was a one off hybred of a bunch of different things. It looks
> like a Kolb.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
<< You can see the Viper at
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/ >>
Hey Possum,
Just cruised through your pictures. Your web page is really easy to
navigate. Nice work on the Viper.
Bill Varnes
Audubon NJ
Original FireStar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
OK Sports Fans, here we go ! ! ! I've moved Vamoose off the porch, and
out onto the driveway for more working room. Hung the wings on it today,
with the idea of installing the wingtip strobes, ( Kuntzleman ), and the
tailboom / wingspar attachments for holding the wings while folded. Ran
into a few questions. 1. On the attachments - looks to me like the
wingtips will contact the folded tail before the pieces socket together. Is
it necessary to shim something, or build custom pieces for some planes, or
is this just my wonderful eyesight ?? This is a Mk III. 2. Pulled the
pin on the upper end of the strut, set the wingtip on the ground, pulled
the forward wing attach pin, and when I started to lift the wing tip, the
forward wing attach point dropped down hard, and scuffed the paint on the
door frames. If lexan, and / or fabric had been installed, it would have
been damaged. What did I do wrong ?? 3. With the strut pin pulled,
and the wingtip on the ground, trying to pull the forward wing attach pin
was difficult. When I finally worked it out with vice grips, and bounced
the wing root off my door frame, I tried to move the wing, and of course,
the wingtip dragged on the pavement. Grind, grind. Not pleasant, so is it
logical to put some kind of plastic skids on the wingtips to prevent damage
to the fabric and paint ?? This leads to: 4. The strobes stick out
much farther than I expected, and with the wingtip on the ground, the strobe
head is very vulnerable. Moving it up on the tubing will set it at an angle
which will clear the ground, and seems like it would also prevent it from
flashing in the pilots' peripheral vision. Trouble is, when it's high
enough to clear the ground, the base will be digging Way into the fabric.
Looks like I could either trim the base back quite a ways, or raise the
wingtip with skids, (again) so the strobe head doesn't have to be so high.
Has anyone else run into these things ?? Whaddidja do ?? Or am I making
mountains out of molehills ?? Again. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Broken link on landing light image . . |
Several people wrote to say they couldn't see the image
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg . . .
It's been fixed (unix/linux machines CARE if you
use upper case or lower case in file names! Sorry 'bout
that.
This lamp is quite compact . . . is a sealed assembly so that
the reflector stays clean and bright. It's also a modern haolgen
lamp that has a MUCH longer life than most landing lights offer
for aircraft. It's only about 2-1/2" tall which might
make it attractive for leading edge installations.
Several folk were concerned about heat . . . to be sure,
a 50 watt lamp puts out MOST of its energy in heat . . .
however a halogen lamp puts our a higher percentage of useful
energy (light) for total watts input compared to the
1940-1950's lamps on most certified ships.
Further, since we're talking in terms of 50-55 watt lamps,
the heat problem is less than HALF that posed by mounting
a 100 watt lamp from a Cessna.
The automotive lamp is pretty attractive from a heat
handling perspective because it sreads the forward radiated
heat over a larger surface area than a 50W round lamp
such as the EXH. In either case, dealing with the heat
output of these modern lamps shouldn't be a big deal.
Dee and I just got back from the SW Regional Flyin at
Abilene, TX (used to be in Kerrville). Gave two forums
and made plans for both forums and workshops next year.
Even picked up a nice tailwind for part of the return
trip . . . first time I've ever seen 145kts on the GPS
in the C172XP!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm aiming this primarily at Robert L. Nuckolls III, but I'll be interested
in input from anyone with experience or knowledge of these things. In the
Nov. '99 issue of Kitplanes, upper left of page 13, is a picture of Tom
Peghiny of Flightstar holding a battery. He claims this sealed lead-acid
battery weighs just 4.4 lbs, has 200 cranking amps, and sells for $79.00.
If all this is true, and if 200 amps is enough (??) (surely that's more than
enough) to crank my VW engine, I'll sure grab one - unless someone has a
better idea. I looked on their website today and found no mention of the
battery. Sounds great, what do you think, Bob ?? Curious
Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
Now you know why I never fold my wings.
When I put them on or take them off, I put a pile of rags about 12 feet out
from the fuselage and about even with the prop. Set the outboard leading
edge on them, and let the wife hold the outboard end of the wing,
perpendicular, ailerons up, leading edge down. Attach the rear spar fitting
to the centersection bracket. If you let the leading edge rest on your toe,
you can raise and lower it to line up the brackets and get the bolt in.
Then swing the wing up and pin the forward fitting. If YOU manuever the
leading edge toward the fitting, the wife can handle the wingtip with the
rear fitting already attached. Then attach the lift strut, wifey holding up
the wingtip. But fold? Not for the Old Poops. Creates problems just like
you describe. I just take them off and move the wings and fuselage separately.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>OK Sports Fans, here we go ! ! ! I've moved Vamoose off the porch, and
>out onto the driveway for more working room. Hung the wings on it today,
>with the idea of installing the wingtip strobes, ( Kuntzleman ), and the
>tailboom / wingspar attachments for holding the wings while folded. Ran
>into a few questions. 1. On the attachments - looks to me like the
>wingtips will contact the folded tail before the pieces socket together. Is
>it necessary to shim something, or build custom pieces for some planes, or
>is this just my wonderful eyesight ?? This is a Mk III. 2. Pulled the
>pin on the upper end of the strut, set the wingtip on the ground, pulled
>the forward wing attach pin, and when I started to lift the wing tip, the
>forward wing attach point dropped down hard, and scuffed the paint on the
>door frames. If lexan, and / or fabric had been installed, it would have
>been damaged. What did I do wrong ?? 3. With the strut pin pulled,
>and the wingtip on the ground, trying to pull the forward wing attach pin
>was difficult. When I finally worked it out with vice grips, and bounced
>the wing root off my door frame, I tried to move the wing, and of course,
>the wingtip dragged on the pavement. Grind, grind. Not pleasant, so is it
>logical to put some kind of plastic skids on the wingtips to prevent damage
>to the fabric and paint ?? This leads to: 4. The strobes stick out
>much farther than I expected, and with the wingtip on the ground, the strobe
>head is very vulnerable. Moving it up on the tubing will set it at an angle
>which will clear the ground, and seems like it would also prevent it from
>flashing in the pilots' peripheral vision. Trouble is, when it's high
>enough to clear the ground, the base will be digging Way into the fabric.
>Looks like I could either trim the base back quite a ways, or raise the
>wingtip with skids, (again) so the strobe head doesn't have to be so high.
>Has anyone else run into these things ?? Whaddidja do ?? Or am I making
>mountains out of molehills ?? Again. Big Lar.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> |
Big Lar,
I do not remember if you have that VW iron installed yet so;
I just went thru the wing installation. I do not have the engine so I
placed 185 pounds of softer salt and bird seed on a piece of plywood
secured to the engine mount. This caused enough deflection of the
fuselage tube to move the brackets on the wing that engage the wing fold
tube over 1/4th inch. Luckily I picked up on this somewhere in the
instructions. After securing the wing fold brackets in alignment with
the tube I removed the weight and am using a piece of 5/16 tube scrap
inserted in both tube and bracket to hold the wings in the stored
position. When I install the engine the should come back into alignment.
I use the split round foam insulation (the kind to keep pipes from
freezing) on the end of wings to protect. (Ailerons are not installed and
wing is not covered yet)
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III, SN 312--N629RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
Larry Bourne wrote:
> 1. On the attachments - looks to me like the
> wingtips will contact the folded tail before the pieces socket together. Is
> it necessary to shim something, or build custom pieces for some planes, or
> is this just my wonderful eyesight ?? 2. Pulled the pin on the upper end of
> the strut, set the wingtip on the ground, pulled the forward wing attach pin,
> and when I started to lift the wing tip, the forward wing attach point dropped
> down hard, and scuffed the paint on the door frames. If lexan, and / or
> fabric had been installed, it would have
> been damaged. What did I do wrong ?? 3. With the strut pin pulled,
> and the wingtip on the ground, trying to pull the forward wing attach pin
> was difficult. When I finally worked it out with vice grips, and bounced
> the wing root off my door frame, I tried to move the wing, and of course,
> the wingtip dragged on the pavement. Grind, grind. Not pleasant, so is it
> logical to put some kind of plastic skids on the wingtips to prevent damage
> to the fabric and paint ?? This leads to: 4. The strobes stick out
> much farther than I expected, and with the wingtip on the ground, the strobe
> head is very vulnerable. Moving it up on the tubing will set it at an angle
> which will clear the ground, and seems like it would also prevent it from
> flashing in the pilots' peripheral vision. Trouble is, when it's high
> enough to clear the ground, the base will be digging Way into the fabric.
> Looks like I could either trim the base back quite a ways, or raise the
> wingtip with skids, (again) so the strobe head doesn't have to be so high.
> Has anyone else run into these things ?? Whaddidja do ?? Or am I making
> mountains out of molehills ?? Again. Big Lar.
Well Lar, Looks like you are finally putting the pieces together. I'll respond
in order of the way you asked:
1. This must be your eyes. If you built correctly, the wings should mate with
the holding tube before touching any part of the tail. You must also be able to
reach between the tail and wings to insert the safety pin. (Remember watching me
with mine?)
2. If this is done solo, you must grip the wing in the forward aspect to counter
the imbalance once the wing is resting on only it's rear mounting bolt.
3. You are placing a torque on the forward pin that should have been cleared in
the mounting process. This means that some metal is placing some shear force on
your pin. If you can grind enough for the clearance then there's no problem. If
this is inadvisable, then other methods must be considered, like resting the
wing tip on a box, or something to prevent it's binding actions.
4. The strobes are mounted for you to see???? Richard Pike mentioned something
about a pile of rags that might soften the strobes pressure on the ground, but
that's your choice completely. Richard also mentioned that he doesn't fold his
wings. Let me point out, the MKIII was designed to have it's wings folded, so
take advantage of it if you can.
Good luck
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
So far a couple of things have become apparent, and I'm glad I asked.
Simplest thing so far is the idea of slipping a piece of pipe insulating
foam over the wingtip before folding. Light, cheap, and easy to carry and
replace. Also, with the strobes, I've noticed on some planes that the
blink, blink, blink off to the side becomes irritating, or distracting.
Plan "A" so far is this: If you were to stand ahead of the wingtip, looking
back, picture the strobe head tilted up like an ear, about 18" ahead of the
trailing edge, rather than straight out. That way with the wingtip on the
ground, protected by its' foam temporary cover, the strobe head would be
well clear of the ground. They're expensive enough that I want to take care
of them. Some of you, with wives to assist, have it made, but unfortunately
(??), I don't have that luxury. Thanks to those who've responded so
quickly; I appreciate it, and I'll look forward to more comments in the
next day or so. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:41 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Wings
>
> OK Sports Fans, here we go ! ! ! I've moved Vamoose off the porch, and
> out onto the driveway for more working room. Hung the wings on it today,
> with the idea of installing the wingtip strobes, ( Kuntzleman ), and the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm sure you're right about the attach fittings. The plane only goes
together one way, ( I'll bet I catch hell from the List for THAT statement !
! ! ) and they're all the same - aren't they ?? Just kinda reaching down
there and eyeballing it, sure looks skimpy, though. Well, okay, tomorrow
I'm going for it. As far as putting the pieces together, the
temperatures have finally (!!!) dropped into the 90 range, and I can
finally start getting back to work on this thing. Gotta get it together.
Ambitious Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wings
>
>
> Larry Bourne wrote:
>
> Well Lar, Looks like you are finally putting the pieces together. I'll
respond
> in order of the way you asked:
> 1. This must be your eyes. If you built correctly, the wings should mate
with
> the holding tube before touching any part of the tail. You must also be
able to
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I do not know about all the other things but you should not need a vice grip
to extract any pin or bolt on your airplane. You either have a misalignment
that is preloading the pin and attach points or you need to ream the
whole--line ream that is. Let us say the word together--reamer---get a
chucking reamer a few thousandths smaller than the bolt size and run it
through all pieces toghether. Never drill a hole to size with a twist
drill--never, ever, never. For example--for a bearing fit on a .25 bolt ream
to .25 but for a proper fit on attach bolts and other shear applications ream
to about .2490. If you drill to size with a drill bit then you have a
mishapen hole and a sloppy fit--no way around it. JR, A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Lar, and by the way, playing with funny looking aeroplanes is probably not a
good way to find a wife either. Airplanes in this age are not considered
KKewwllll and have no sex appeal for the opposite sex (hopefully). Now
motorcycles are different--that bad boy image is killer on the babes but as I
said your Kolb will get you that nerd look, especially when you drop your
wing on your toe. JR, not running a dating service but you may need one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Bruner" <brunerd(at)hvi.net> |
>
>Now you know why I never fold my wings.
Use a Wingamajig! Allows me to do a single handed wing fold/unfold on my Mk
II. Saw one at a muffler shop and knew it would to the trick - it's what
they use to hold mufflers up while they're welded. Holds about 100 lbs,
infinitely adjustable from 5' to 7', costs $25. Very simple tube-in-tube
extension with a 15" tripod base and a lever stop. I attached a wood block
in the muffler holding bracket and drilled a 1/2" hole in the top for the
wing fold fitting to sit in. Very simple to do: attach the strut bottom,
position the wingamajig, unfold the wing and set the wing fold fitting into
the hole in the wood block on top of the wingamajig, install the wing
support tab clevis (the wing can be pushed back and forth a small amount and
the tripod base won't tip over), adjust the wing height to attach the upper
strut clevis and viola'! Ooops, better do the other wing too. I've got a
few
jpg pics if anyone is curious. Don't have my own web site, tho, would
have to send them to you.
Somewhat easier than a Mk III because the cage on the Mk II holds the
leading edge of the wing up. On a Mk III you'd have to hold up the wing
leading edge between step 3 and 4.
Now if I could only get some air time... Many glitches the past few months
with props and my engine have slowed instruction flights. Then finally with
a good recommended max static thrust using a new GSC 3 blade prop we just
don't get a very comfortable climb rate with 330# of crew. I have a 503SC
with 150hrs TT and new pistons and all the numbers are good. Can't ditch
the instructor yet - my confidence in the contraption isn't very high. Cold
days help. And there are plenty of them coming!
David Bruner
Mk II #202
Kingston, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | canoe mounts for setup |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Big Lar and others,
I'm jumping in on this a little late but this might help because I fold
mine up everytime I fly and I don't have any scraped wingtips or leading
edge dents on my plane. The very first thing to remember when taking it
out of the garage is to take your time and watch the plane as it's loaded
and unloaded onto the trailer or when you are setting it up in the yard.
When folded, the leading edge is so vulnerable to damage because of its
close proximity with the ground. If there is a dip in the pavement, one
of the mains will go down and bring the LE even closer to the ground that
it is passing over. Now to setting up, ALWAYS use a canoe mount
underneath each wing where the bow tip meets the LE tube. This will
protect the wings during setup. This is a one man operation and can be
done flawlessly if you take the right precautions. When the wing is
unfolded, the canoe mounts MUST be moved from the LE bow tip to the
aileron-wing area (one mount could be placed on the aileron and another
on the TE of the wing if you wanted to use two per wing). The mounts will
keep the wing from moving backwards, scraping on the surface, and thereby
protecting the wing. When the main clevis pin is put in or pulled out
(and you may have to move the wing forward or backwards at the bow tip to
take pressure off the pin), and lowered to the side of the cage, a
blanket may be necessary to protect the lexan.
The canoe mounts are a piece of foam rubber block with a channel milled
out the middle that protect the roof of a car when a canoe is carried on
top. They are ideal for our applications and do an excellent job on
protecting the wings during setup and take-down. Check stores that sell
outdoor gear or boat shops that sell canoes. Even if the plane is never
taken down, these mounts placed on the bow tip will keep hanger rash to a
minimum.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
2.
>Pulled the
>pin on the upper end of the strut, set the wingtip on the ground,
>pulled
>the forward wing attach pin, and when I started to lift the wing tip,
>the
>forward wing attach point dropped down hard, and scuffed the paint on
>the
>door frames. If lexan, and / or fabric had been installed, it would
>have
>been damaged. What did I do wrong ?? 3. With the strut pin
>pulled,
>and the wingtip on the ground, trying to pull the forward wing attach
>pin
>was difficult. When I finally worked it out with vice grips, and
>bounced
>the wing root off my door frame, I tried to move the wing, and of
>course,
>the wingtip dragged on the pavement. Grind, grind. Not pleasant, so
>is it
>logical to put some kind of plastic skids on the wingtips to prevent
>damage
>to the fabric and paint ??
Or am I
>making
>mountains out of molehills ?? Again. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/16/99 11:58:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irena(at)ccis.com
writes:
<< 1. This must be your eyes. If you built correctly, the wings should mate
with
the holding tube before touching any part of the tail. You must also be
able to
reach between the tail and wings to insert the safety pin. (Remember
watching me
with mine?) >>
Re: Inserting the safety pin to hold wings folded. I got two wooden
yardsticks and attached a 1/8" pin to the end of each one; now it's easy to
insert them. The yardsticks are light enough that they don't cause a problem
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Guys;
I was just wondering if anyone has been having trouble getting parts
from Kolb. I ordered a set of gear legs for my FS2 about two months ago and
haven't got them yet. Called Kolb about a month ago and they said they
couldn't find anyone to machine the legs for them. I sent them a E-mail last
week and haven't heard anything back from them yet. Anyone know whats going
on? I read an article that said they were building cages for another company,
but they don't seem to have time to make parts for there on planes.
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/17/99 8:21:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kenmead(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I was just wondering if anyone has been having trouble getting parts
from Kolb. I ordered a set of gear legs for my FS2 about two months ago >>
I ordered FS II gear legs & other associated parts about 2-3 weeks ago &
received them within 4-5 days.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Anyone know whats going
> on? I read an article that said they were building cages for another company,
> but they don't seem to have time to make parts for there on planes.
>
>
>
> Kent
Hi Kent and Gang:
Recommend you contact Bruce Chesnutt, President of The New
Kolb Aircraft, if you are not getting the support you
require. I am sure he "knows what is going on" and will
help you solve your problem.
I personally do not think Kolb is ignoring their
responsibility to provide Kolb parts because they are
providing parts for another manufacturer. If anybody knows
what the big picture is, Bruce does.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)tetric.com> |
| Subject: | Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
To all,
More like 20-25 minutes for me. Where do I start. Everyone who does this
knows there is a certain order. If you screw up and forget something, bad
things happen. This is the way I do it when by myself. Fold the emphanage
first, position the prop to the proper position for folding the wings,
remove the wing gap seal (I have a ballistic chute installed inside so I
have to unhook the hang cable attach point and the rip cord bracket also),
unfasten the control surface push/pull rods (flaps and ailerons), remove
all the safety pins (this can be a painful job for one with soft fingers
and nails) on the wing's clevis pins, unfasten the jury strut (I don't have
this as I sleeved the lift strut), lay down a piece of foam (like you get
when you come home from the hospital) or any other soft material under the
wing tip, lift the wing weight on your shoulder at the leading edge and
remove the clevis pin of the upper lift strut bracket and lower the strut
to rest on top of the tire with your foot (this ain't easy whether folding
or unfolding), holding the wing up walk the leading edge of your wing to
the tip and gently lay it on the foam with the alieron extended to the
rear, remove the lift strut and store, unfasten the forward inboard clevis
pin lifting the tab up and reinserting the pin letting the wing tab rest on
top of the pin (I have heard of some guys who have ground a small rounded
notch on the bottom side of the wing tab so that the wing just fits in the
notch when it is lined up perfectly for the clevis pin), holding the wing
from falling walk the leading edge back to the wing tip and gently lift the
wing holding either side of the balance point so that the leading edge side
of the wing does not crash down on the side of the cage, lift the wing tab
off the clevis pin and back the wing 2 or 3 feet so it will clear the
fuselage and gently lower the leading edge to vertical, make sure that the
flap bracket passes over the universal joint and swings freely beyond it
before folding any further (my MKIII has a tendency for the bracket to hang
on the universal joint if this step is not carefully accomplished which
will cause a major bind if you try to fold the wing rearward any further),
continue to walk the wing to the rear making sure nothing is binding and
carefully attach it to the attach tube and insert the cotter pin. A friend
of mine brazed the pins to a long piece of rod with a loop on the end to
hold it with so that I can reach the holes easily. I have hand hold grips
(copied from another builder) in the wing tip bow that make folding and
unfolding and lifting the entire folded tail much easier. The wing stand
described in earlier posts sounds like a very practical way to save a lot
of physical effort when you are trying to fold or unfold alone.
Thank goodness this is as far as I have to go. I have a place on an
airfield where I can keep my trailer parked all the time. I just pop the
rear ramp door down and roll it right in. The nose of the trailer is
cranked high enough so the floor is perfectly flat from the ground all the
way in... no high centers to damage the leading edges. Some fellows
trailer home and have to stabilize their Kolbs to take the weight off the
tail wheel spring and prevent sideways and up and down movement at the
tail, chock and tie down the main wheels, some have brackets between the
carry through bolt at the rear of the cage and the forward inboard wing
tabs for a 3-point no swing folded connection of the main wings, etc, etc.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
(830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Comic book on coax connectors . . . |
There was some discussion a couple of weeks ago about "screw on"
connectors for coax antenna cable and some of us got our tongues
wrapped around our eyeteeth and couldn't see what we were saying.
I've just published some pictures of various BNC style connectors
with a link from the "what's new" box at our website. Interested
builders are invited to click on:
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
> Re: Inserting the safety pin to hold wings folded. I got two wooden
> yardsticks and attached a 1/8" pin to the end of each one; now it's easy
to
> insert them. The yardsticks are light enough that they don't cause a
problem
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS I
Hi Gang:
I use a 18'' piece of alum. arrow shaft and zip tie the pins to the arrow
shaft-works great.
I also wanted to give a short report of the fly-in at South Ms. Light
Aircraft. We had a great time and as far as I know every one went home
safely.The weather threatened to be pretty windy early in the morning but it
subsided for the most part and wasn't a problem. I didn't get a exact count
but we had approx. 30 u/l's including 1 trike, 1 gyrocopter and 3 powered
chutes. We also had about 10 bigger planes up to a pair of Beachcraft
Bonanza's (I think), but what impressed me the most was the fact that we had
7 Kolb's. I don't know for sure but the Kolb's may have out numbered any
other brand. Most impressive of course was John Hauck's plane Ms. P'fer.
Another gentleman ( I forget his name) had a very nice looking Slingshot. He
was from around Montgomery AL. Also Ted Cowan's lightning and another
fellow from Louisiana had nice looking Firestars. I really had a good time
and enjoyed meeting and talking with some of the folks that I see on this
list.
I'm going to have to really get busy on my FS II project now. A gentleman
from Huntsville AL. graciously left with my MK II, so I will be grounded
until I get the FS II ready unless I stoop to riding in a Quicksilver with a
buddy ( I will stoop that low) Well that's about it for now.
Later,
John Cooley
Building a FS II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Potential heating problems with suggested lamps . . . |
Been getting a lot of questions concerning the two lamps
I illustrated as possible candidates for landing lights
on airplanes. I thought I'd elaborate for the group's
benefits. To date, I'm not aware of anyone who has installed
the 4352 an airplane. I had a Kitfox or Avid builder builder
put a pair of the little spotlights in the underside of each
wing to provide peripheral vision clues during landing and
he reported this arrangement to be satisfactory to his
needs.
Folks are still asking about heat. A few minutes ago
I conducted a very subjective experiment. Went out in
the driveway and hooked a 4352 to my van battery with
the engine idling. Again, just pointing the thing
around the neighborhood, I reaffirmed my first impression
that ONE of these lamps would suffice to land an airplane.
After three minutes, the lamp was too hot to touch for
more than a few seconds near the rear of the housing
where the connector penetrates it and on the large top and
bottom flats.
The mounting rim was quite easy to hold in the fingers.
Holding one's hand out in front would produce a too
warm to stay there after 30 seconds or so. My impression
is that a piece of lexan over this bulb is in no danger
of overheating.
If one installed a 4352 in EACH wing and used a wig-wag
circuit for collision avoidance, the heat energy from
each bulb goes down by a factor of 2 'cause it's on
half the time. Total system power is the same as for
one lamp since only one bulb is on at a time. In the
final seconds before flare, you could run both bulbs
continuously for the actual landing.
This seems like a good way to (1) have dual bulbs
so that you'll always have one if the other burns
out, (2) very effective recognition lighting, (3)
110 watts of "landing" light on a energy budget nearly
equal to one 55 watt lamp, (4) buy new lamps at
K-mart for a fraction of the cost of clasical "aircraft
quality" landing lights.
If someone will dope out the mechanical details of
mouting these in their particular project and send
me drawings/pictures. I'll publish them on our website.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
Funny you should ask, I was just thinking of bragging up the company a
bit. For those who dont know me, I am running a flight school out here
in the rain, (Washington) I repair and build planes for people, and I
would just like to say that the New Kolb people have been great! I had
to completely rebuild a brand new FSII that the owner looped on the
second flight. I had the new parts in a week, and even though they had
to truck ship a tail tube, it was here FAST! I deal with a LOT of
different manufacturers. and I gotta tell ya, yer lucky to have a Kolb
when it comes to factory support! I could write a book about some of the
others.
Mike
Olympic Ultralights
Kenmead(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys;
> I was just wondering if anyone has been having trouble getting parts
> from Kolb. I ordered a set of gear legs for my FS2 about two months ago and
> haven't got them yet. Called Kolb about a month ago and they said they
> couldn't find anyone to machine the legs for them. I sent them a E-mail last
> week and haven't heard anything back from them yet. Anyone know whats going
> on? I read an article that said they were building cages for another company,
> but they don't seem to have time to make parts for there on planes.
>
>
>
> Kent
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
It sure ain't. It is possible to do some serious damage to your bird if you
omit any of the steps, or get them out of sequence. I am in the process of
constructing a wing support out of PVC pipe and webbing to hold the wing off
the ground while I connect/disconnect the spar and strut clevis pins. There
are some guys who find the folding and unfolding process a breeze. If there
IS a breeze and you are solo you had better be careful.
Reference the safety pins- I have seen a post about using a marine type
circular safety ring with an "easy start" center. I haven't located any yet
but it may be a finger saver.
Small price to pay for a great performing airplane.
Bill George
Mk-3 582 Powerfin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Potential heating problems with suggested lamps . . . |
I have one of those funny looking new auto type lights(maybe 2 1/2 or 3
inches in diameter, looks like an eyeball...sort of) on the top of my
left lift strut, used for daytime landing, and for all flying in lower
light.(already lived thru one midair, that was enough).
I was on approach to our strip in the mountians with it on today, and
when I landed, my friends brother, a Boeing electronics engineer, came
out to tell me he saw the light from about 2 miles away in broad
daylight! (I didnt know they were that good). He said to install the
other one on my right lift strut(they come in sets of two) and he would
build me a dealy to make them flash alternatly, as Bob suggested below.
He is going to build in the capability to also have them both on at the
same time. I will have him send the circut and materials list if anyone
wants it for posting anywhere. I didnt realize the auto store lights
were that bright. I dont know how well they would work at night for
landing as I think they are fog lights, and this old, un-bold aviaturd
dont fly at night. Kind of a yellowish tinge to them, with a very wide
beam. When the plane is at a 45 degree angle to you, the light is just
about as bright as if it were head on. Yes, they are not nearly as cheap
as what you can build, for sure, but I guess Im just too busy flying to
make everything I need.
They dont seem to make much heat, but just in case, I only turn them on
when doing the taxi checklist, and off as soon as I park and shutdown.
Nice to know we are seen. Lots of people out flying that aint looking
too careful. I know.
Mike
>
> If one installed a 4352 in EACH wing and used a wig-wag
> circuit for collision avoidance, the heat energy from
> each bulb goes down by a factor of 2 'cause it's on
> half the time. Total system power is the same as for
> one lamp since only one bulb is on at a time. In the
> final seconds before flare, you could run both bulbs
> continuously for the actual landing.
>
> This seems like a good way to (1) have dual bulbs
> so that you'll always have one if the other burns
> out, (2) very effective recognition lighting, (3)
> 110 watts of "landing" light on a energy budget nearly
> equal to one 55 watt lamp, (4) buy new lamps at
> K-mart for a fraction of the cost of clasical "aircraft
> quality" landing lights.
>
> If someone will dope out the mechanical details of
> mouting these in their particular project and send
> me drawings/pictures. I'll publish them on our website.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Independence Kansas: the >
> < Jurassic Park of aviation. >
> < Your source for brand new >
> < 40 year old airplanes. >
> =================================
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlyColt45(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: MK III Parts For Sale |
From: FlyColt45(at)aol.com
Full-name: FlyColt45
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 02:32:09 EDT
Subject: MK III Parts For Sale
Bent my cage on a rough landing.
Plane needs cage, engine and pod to finish
Have sold engine and some other parts - Prefer to sell these items as package:
- Boom Tube (white) with complete tail section (covered & painted - on
tube) & tail wheel
- Control cables from stick to elevator & rudder pedals to rudder
connected
- 2 wings (Rt wing is bent but have new spar and new wing kit to
replace). The left wing is fine.
- Both streamline wing struts.
- Flap control tubes (2)
- Aileron control tubes (2)
- Wing gap section (lexan is broken but frame is solid)
- New rims and tires (in box)
- Brake kit
- Heavy duty aluminum main landing gear (have 3 new legs)
- Gray vinyl seat/ console cover
- Warp drive prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlyColt45(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Magellan EC-10X GPS/ moving map For Sale |
New condition with all manuals in original hard plastic case. Used only a
few times.
Display dimensions are: 6.0" x 4.5". North America Data base & Northeastern
(tight view) Data base cartridges. Can be used with its self contained power
source. Has a cigarette lighter plug. Best offer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
Bill, I've thought about those marine pins with the rings too, but I'll want
to be VERY sure that the strength level is the same or greater than the AN
pins. That's My Precious Neck in that puppy. It's interesting that the
pins in my wings and struts ( I was working on it today, and got the strobes
installed ) go in fairly easily with a little wiggling. Pulling them out is
another story. The idea of using water pipe insulating sleeves worked like
a charm. Pop 2 pieces on the end of the wing, set them down, slide them
around, whatever - works great. Thanks. I set the strobes on an angle, and
24" from the trailing edge. They look like little ears sticking up. When
the wing tip is on the ground, the strobe head is parallel to, and about "
from the ground. That, and the sleeve should save them. I tried pulling
the front wing mount pin, lifting the front of the wing, putting the pin
back in, and resting the wing on the pin. Seemed to work well, and kept the
front pivot from dropping down until I was around to the wingtip, and had
control of it. Don't know about in a breeze, as was mentioned, will cross
that bridge later. Thanks again for all the help, everyone.
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WGeorge737(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't!
>
> It sure ain't. It is possible to do some serious damage to your bird if
you
> omit any of the steps, or get them out of sequence. I am in the process of
> constructing a wing support out of PVC pipe and webbing to hold the wing
off
> the ground while I connect/disconnect the spar and strut clevis pins.
There
> are some guys who find the folding and unfolding process a breeze. If
there
> IS a breeze and you are solo you had better be careful.
>
> Reference the safety pins- I have seen a post about using a marine type
> circular safety ring with an "easy start" center. I haven't located any
yet
> but it may be a finger saver.
>
> Small price to pay for a great performing airplane.
>
> Bill George
> Mk-3 582 Powerfin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
Talk about great minds going in the same circles ! ! ! I thought I was
pretty clever in setting the front wing mount back down on the pin. Ha ! !
! I really like your idea of grinding a small notch to set on the pin.
Now, here's one more.....................a couple of weeks ago, I drove up
to Santa Ynez, to meet Erich Weaver and see his plane. He keeps his in a
trailer, too. I've seen and heard of some weird and wonderful ways to
support the tail boom, but Erich beats the lot. He puts a ratchet strap
over each main wheel, and cranks them down solid, then has a SLING, about 4"
or 6" wide attached to the roof of the trailer. He just wraps it around the
tail boom, hooks it up to take the weight, and........Voila ! ! ! Slick
and neat. He's also done a very neat, tidy, tight installation of his 912
engine. Standoffs and support brackets for accessories are beautifully
done, and I've already got permission to use his ideas. We get by with a
little help from our friends ! ! ! Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff / Carolyn Stripling <striplic(at)tetric.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 6:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't!
>
> To all,
>
> More like 20-25 minutes for me. Where do I start. Everyone who does this
> knows there is a certain order. If you screw up and forget something, bad
> things happen. This is the way I do it when by myself. Fold the
emphanage
> first, position the prop to the proper position for folding the wings,
> remove the wing gap seal (I have a ballistic chute installed inside so I
> have to unhook the hang cable attach point and the rip cord bracket also),
> unfasten the control surface push/pull rods (flaps and ailerons), remove
> all the safety pins (this can be a painful job for one with soft fingers
> and nails) on the wing's clevis pins, unfasten the jury strut (I don't
have
> this as I sleeved the lift strut), lay down a piece of foam (like you get
> when you come home from the hospital) or any other soft material under the
> wing tip, lift the wing weight on your shoulder at the leading edge and
> remove the clevis pin of the upper lift strut bracket and lower the strut
> to rest on top of the tire with your foot (this ain't easy whether folding
> or unfolding), holding the wing up walk the leading edge of your wing to
> the tip and gently lay it on the foam with the alieron extended to the
> rear, remove the lift strut and store, unfasten the forward inboard clevis
> pin lifting the tab up and reinserting the pin letting the wing tab rest
on
> top of the pin (I have heard of some guys who have ground a small rounded
> notch on the bottom side of the wing tab so that the wing just fits in the
> notch when it is lined up perfectly for the clevis pin), holding the wing
> from falling walk the leading edge back to the wing tip and gently lift
the
> wing holding either side of the balance point so that the leading edge
side
> of the wing does not crash down on the side of the cage, lift the wing tab
> off the clevis pin and back the wing 2 or 3 feet so it will clear the
> fuselage and gently lower the leading edge to vertical, make sure that the
> flap bracket passes over the universal joint and swings freely beyond it
> before folding any further (my MKIII has a tendency for the bracket to
hang
> on the universal joint if this step is not carefully accomplished which
> will cause a major bind if you try to fold the wing rearward any further),
> continue to walk the wing to the rear making sure nothing is binding and
> carefully attach it to the attach tube and insert the cotter pin. A
friend
> of mine brazed the pins to a long piece of rod with a loop on the end to
> hold it with so that I can reach the holes easily. I have hand hold grips
> (copied from another builder) in the wing tip bow that make folding and
> unfolding and lifting the entire folded tail much easier. The wing stand
> described in earlier posts sounds like a very practical way to save a lot
> of physical effort when you are trying to fold or unfold alone.
>
> Thank goodness this is as far as I have to go. I have a place on an
> airfield where I can keep my trailer parked all the time. I just pop the
> rear ramp door down and roll it right in. The nose of the trailer is
> cranked high enough so the floor is perfectly flat from the ground all the
> way in... no high centers to damage the leading edges. Some fellows
> trailer home and have to stabilize their Kolbs to take the weight off the
> tail wheel spring and prevent sideways and up and down movement at the
> tail, chock and tie down the main wheels, some have brackets between the
> carry through bolt at the rear of the cage and the forward inboard wing
> tabs for a 3-point no swing folded connection of the main wings, etc, etc.
>
> Later,
>
>
> --
> Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
> 801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
> Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
> (830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
>
>
>
--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amy Rains" <amyrains(at)huntleigh.net> |
Yea, I have been trying to order a couple of tail wheels, can never get
through, phone's always busy. Had one reply by e-mail, but no worthwhile
info. I was wanting to purchase some legs for my FSII, was told "about
$80.00 a pair". Maybe there just having growing pains. "skeeter" Dave.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenmead(at)aol.com <Kenmead(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 6:24 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Parts
>
>Hi Guys;
> I was just wondering if anyone has been having trouble getting parts
>from Kolb. I ordered a set of gear legs for my FS2 about two months ago and
>haven't got them yet. Called Kolb about a month ago and they said they
>couldn't find anyone to machine the legs for them. I sent them a E-mail
last
>week and haven't heard anything back from them yet. Anyone know whats going
>on? I read an article that said they were building cages for another
company,
>but they don't seem to have time to make parts for there on planes.
>
>
> Kent
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
I had the same problem with the wing wanting to slip off before I was ready
and in unfolding the wing the same problem in reverse. I went ahead and
ground a notch the diameter of the pin in the lower outboard corner of the
tab. The wing now has a place to sit while I prepare to install and remove
the pin. I use a piece of carpet about 2 ft. square to sit the wing on and
this allows for a little movement of the wing to position it for the pin.
The plans call for notching the leading edge in order to clear the lower
corner when you let the wings droop down before removing the pin. Since mine
did not require this I figured it would not be a structural problem in
removing a little material in the same area.
John N670JW (4.8 hr to go)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Wings
OK Sports Fans, here we go ! ! ! I've moved Vamoose off the porch, and
out onto the driveway for more working room. Hung the wings on it today,
with the idea of installing the wingtip strobes, ( Kuntzleman ), and the
tailboom / wingspar attachments for holding the wings while folded. Ran
into a few questions. 1. On the attachments - looks to me like the
wingtips will contact the folded tail before the pieces socket together. Is
it necessary to shim something, or build custom pieces for some planes, or
is this just my wonderful eyesight ?? This is a Mk III. 2. Pulled the
pin on the upper end of the strut, set the wingtip on the ground, pulled
the forward wing attach pin, and when I started to lift the wing tip, the
forward wing attach point dropped down hard, and scuffed the paint on the
door frames. If lexan, and / or fabric had been installed, it would have
been damaged. What did I do wrong ?? 3. With the strut pin pulled,
and the wingtip on the ground, trying to pull the forward wing attach pin
was difficult. When I finally worked it out with vice grips, and bounced
the wing root off my door frame, I tried to move the wing, and of course,
the wingtip dragged on the pavement. Grind, grind. Not pleasant, so is it
logical to put some kind of plastic skids on the wingtips to prevent damage
to the fabric and paint ?? This leads to: 4. The strobes stick out
much farther than I expected, and with the wingtip on the ground, the strobe
head is very vulnerable. Moving it up on the tubing will set it at an angle
which will clear the ground, and seems like it would also prevent it from
flashing in the pilots' peripheral vision. Trouble is, when it's high
enough to clear the ground, the base will be digging Way into the fabric.
Looks like I could either trim the base back quite a ways, or raise the
wingtip with skids, (again) so the strobe head doesn't have to be so high.
Has anyone else run into these things ?? Whaddidja do ?? Or am I making
mountains out of molehills ?? Again. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 99-10-17 1:44:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brunerd(at)hvi.net
writes:
<< Now if I could only get some air time... Many glitches the past few months
with props and my engine have slowed instruction flights. >>
Dave : Got in 4.1 hours on Saturday. All of my numbers were good. The plane
climbs like a rocket with me in it and half fuel. Put my 225# father in with
full fuel and the performance was similar to GA airplane. The important
thing is that the engine hasn't so much as coughed. Very pleased with how
that part is working out. The next thing I'm going to need is a full
enclosure. I have a very simple method for doing a fullenclosure onthe mark
2. What I did on Jim's plane. Let me know if you are interested. Good
luck. I'll be down next weekend. MRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Any thoughts on how many watts it takes on average for a small plane to be
>able to light up the runway on approach and landing? I like Bob's idea of
>the 50w 4352s for the wings, a total of 100w. (Got to keep the math simple)
>What about a third light (100w?) in the nose for a total of 200w? Where are
>the best places to mount lights in the wing - out towards the tips or in
>closer? In my old C-130 days, we had a light that rotated down from the
>bottom of the wing to point forward. After landing, you flip the switch and
>to rotated back up into the wing. Could this be done on a Kitfox? Anyone
>with experience on what is the minimum amount of light needed to make it
>worthwhile in the first place please step forward.
>
I tried this experiment a few years back while we owned an
airport complete with J-3 Cub: I took an ordinary sportsman's
lantern (6v, 0.8a bulb for a grand total of 4.8 watts!) and
duct-taped it to the strut so that it pointed in the right
place for looking ahead in a wheel landing attitude. I can
tell you that this light was entirely adequate for performing
a series of touch-n-go's in the Cub long after the sun went
down. If I needed to build a minimum energy system (perhaps
wind generator powered?) for night landings in the Cub,
a pair of 5w fixtures on each wing would be quite useful
and doable.
Adequate lighting has very little to do with watts, it has
to do with what you can see. If you fly off of runways in the
bush and expect to crow-hop over an occasional deer or
possum on the runway, then a few kilowatts of police-
hellicopter klieg-lights may not be enough. If you need to
accomplish reliably controlled landings on a runway that
is already outlined in the little row of bulbs down each
side, then it can be a whole different story (the runway
lamps on our airport were 8 watt sewing machine bulbs!).
Piling on the watts and lumens may be satisfying in some
respects. I'll suggest that we're building the best airplanes
that have ever flown. Part of being "best" means optomizing
hardware to the task while considering temperature
rise, power consumption, installation ease, utility,
cost/performace ratio, etc. We who have roots deep in
the certified aircraft world bring a lot of baggage with
us when it comes to sorting out what's useful versus
what's found on the heavy-iron birds we learned in.
Right here in these forums is where we sort through the
pieces and parts to see what's really useful while
hopefully eliminating all things from the hard-to-do pile.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Independence Kansas: the >
< Jurassic Park of aviation. >
< Your source for brand new >
< 40 year old airplanes. >
=================================
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: MK III Parts For Sale |
It makes it a lot easier to decide if I am interesed in something like
this if you put in prices or at least an address. Something like this I
would want to see in person and if within a couple hundred miles of Detroit
I would like to see it. giving an address in you initial ad would let us
know if we should even think about it.
>
>Bent my cage on a rough landing.
>Plane needs cage, engine and pod to finish
>Have sold engine and some other parts - Prefer to sell these items as package:
> - Boom Tube (white) with complete tail section (covered & painted - on
>tube) & tail wheel
> - Control cables from stick to elevator & rudder pedals to rudder
>connected
> - 2 wings (Rt wing is bent but have new spar and new wing kit to
>replace). The left wing is fine.
> - Both streamline wing struts.
> - Flap control tubes (2)
> - Aileron control tubes (2)
> - Wing gap section (lexan is broken but frame is solid)
> - New rims and tires (in box)
> - Brake kit
> - Heavy duty aluminum main landing gear (have 3 new legs)
> - Gray vinyl seat/ console cover
> - Warp drive prop
>
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
IT actually takes me about 12 minutes to fold and unfold my firestar. I have
developed a system since I trailer my to and from the airport. This does not
count the time getting it in and out of the trailer which is about another
10 mins. For the money it saves me 20 to 25 mins is not bad.
Trying to figure out if I have moved the wing out far enough to clear the
cage was a concern since there is a possibility of scratching the paint of
ripping the stits, I put a round furniture boot in the end of each of the
lead spar ends. You can get them at Home Depot.
John
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 6:23 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't!
To all,
More like 20-25 minutes for me. Where do I start. Everyone who does this
knows there is a certain order. If you screw up and forget something, bad
things happen. This is the way I do it when by myself. Fold the emphanage
first, position the prop to the proper position for folding the wings,
remove the wing gap seal (I have a ballistic chute installed inside so I
have to unhook the hang cable attach point and the rip cord bracket also),
unfasten the control surface push/pull rods (flaps and ailerons), remove
all the safety pins (this can be a painful job for one with soft fingers
and nails) on the wing's clevis pins, unfasten the jury strut (I don't have
this as I sleeved the lift strut), lay down a piece of foam (like you get
when you come home from the hospital) or any other soft material under the
wing tip, lift the wing weight on your shoulder at the leading edge and
remove the clevis pin of the upper lift strut bracket and lower the strut
to rest on top of the tire with your foot (this ain't easy whether folding
or unfolding), holding the wing up walk the leading edge of your wing to
the tip and gently lay it on the foam with the alieron extended to the
rear, remove the lift strut and store, unfasten the forward inboard clevis
pin lifting the tab up and reinserting the pin letting the wing tab rest on
top of the pin (I have heard of some guys who have ground a small rounded
notch on the bottom side of the wing tab so that the wing just fits in the
notch when it is lined up perfectly for the clevis pin), holding the wing
from falling walk the leading edge back to the wing tip and gently lift the
wing holding either side of the balance point so that the leading edge side
of the wing does not crash down on the side of the cage, lift the wing tab
off the clevis pin and back the wing 2 or 3 feet so it will clear the
fuselage and gently lower the leading edge to vertical, make sure that the
flap bracket passes over the universal joint and swings freely beyond it
before folding any further (my MKIII has a tendency for the bracket to hang
on the universal joint if this step is not carefully accomplished which
will cause a major bind if you try to fold the wing rearward any further),
continue to walk the wing to the rear making sure nothing is binding and
carefully attach it to the attach tube and insert the cotter pin. A friend
of mine brazed the pins to a long piece of rod with a loop on the end to
hold it with so that I can reach the holes easily. I have hand hold grips
(copied from another builder) in the wing tip bow that make folding and
unfolding and lifting the entire folded tail much easier. The wing stand
described in earlier posts sounds like a very practical way to save a lot
of physical effort when you are trying to fold or unfold alone.
Thank goodness this is as far as I have to go. I have a place on an
airfield where I can keep my trailer parked all the time. I just pop the
rear ramp door down and roll it right in. The nose of the trailer is
cranked high enough so the floor is perfectly flat from the ground all the
way in... no high centers to damage the leading edges. Some fellows
trailer home and have to stabilize their Kolbs to take the weight off the
tail wheel spring and prevent sideways and up and down movement at the
tail, chock and tie down the main wheels, some have brackets between the
carry through bolt at the rear of the cage and the forward inboard wing
tabs for a 3-point no swing folded connection of the main wings, etc, etc.
Later,
--
Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
(830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlyColt45(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: MK III Parts For Sale |
Plane is a few miles from the old Kolb company. Area of Pottstown Limerick
Airport. (PA)
As stated, I would prefer to sell all items as a package.
I would be glad to send pictures to a serious offer & am trying to get them
scanned in.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dale Seitzer : FW: First Flight |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Dale, I will forward your message to the kolb-list for you.
Ralph
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: FW: First Flight
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:31:53 -0500
Ralph, the message did not go to the kolb list. I am on the list been
receiving some messages. Dale.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Seitzer
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:23 AM
Subject: First Flight
I bought an original Firestar that has been owned by several people in
the
area and I flew yesterday for the first time. It was scary and
exhilarating knowing that there is no one else but me in command. That
feeling lasted until the turn down wind when I relaxed and started flying
the plane. I had 9 hours in a Cessna 172, 6 hours in a Rans Coyote and 5
hours in a Sport aviation Talon. The landing was easier than the two
place cuz the speed is lower and lighter quicker controls. I had to try
3
times to fly through the ground effect but made a smooth landing. I flew
for about an hour and made 4 more landings to talk with the instructor.
My son also took his turn with lessons and he was a witness. While we
were on the ground an FAA inspector stopped by and asked to see the
instructors documentation. He said there were some renegades (his words)
flying two place ultralights without the proper licensure. We were at
the River Falls Airport in western Wisconsin. Flying was great fun and
very rewarding and now I have the clearance to begin learning how to fly.
I have been reading the archives for 2 months and have learned many
valuable things and I used them already. Thanks for over two years of
discussion and information . Dale Seitzer, St. Paul.
--------- End forwarded message ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Lar, the marine safety rings are fine, I've been using them all these
years. I have one on the elevator and another securing the bottom tail
bracing wires and have taxied/landed in tall grass, snow, and asphalt
without it hinting on coming off.
Get the ones that are stainless and have the easy-start in the center.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
>
>
>Bill, I've thought about those marine pins with the rings too, but
>I'll want
>to be VERY sure that the strength level is the same or greater than
>the AN
>pins. That's My Precious Neck in that puppy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
In a message dated 10/17/99 10:01:04 PM, larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< He puts a ratchet strap
over each main wheel, and cranks them down solid, then has a SLING, about 4"
or 6" wide attached to the roof of the trailer. He just wraps it around the
tail boom, hooks it up to take the weight, and........Voila ! ! ! S >>
I have 3 eye bolts in the floor in the front of the trailer and use straps to
hold the main gear firmly down. Metal angle pieces pivot to chock the rear of
the wheels. Had the sling system for the boom but it was cumbersome to attach
and allowed some sway. So I went to a large piece of PVC pipe coped out to
the diameter of the tail boom. Attached a large wood block to the trailer
floor with a circle cut out of the center to accept the PVC pipe. Tail wheel
is strapped to eyebolts at each side of the trailer on the floor. Airplane is
solid in the trailer.
Bill George
Mk-3 582 Powerfin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <quick503(at)aisp.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Customer Service |
Interesting to hear that others were having problems with the "New Kolb". I
have a MK III that I am referbing for my flight school and have been very
frustrated in my dealings with this company. I called saying that I needed a
maintenance manual and parts book for this aircraft and was informed that
they would not sell me these as they are only included in new kits! After a
couple of days and many calls they decided to sell me an assembly manual
for $50. I told them I needed pictures too as this was my first Kolb and was
not familiar with the aircraft. They said they would send it Priority Mail.
It arrived a week later, regular mail and NO pictures in the assembly
manual! I called Kolb and they said I needed the plans and that would cost
another $100. So I ordered that and got it in about 4 days. I also ordered a
dual control kit almost 2 weeks ago which they said they would ship right
away but have not because they are working on the installation instructions.
To be fair, Sue, who answers the phone and takes the orders is new and bends
over backward trying to help. John at the Old Kolb shop in Millersberg, Pa
was great and took the time to answer all my questions and shipped my
fuselage tube super quick. I was really impressed!
So far the feeling I have gotten from the New Kolb was that I was a bother
Not by Sue ) and that they were more interested in guarding their secrets
or something ) than supporting their product. Soooo, New Kolb if you are
monitoring this list here are a few suggestions from a fellow business
owner:
1. The customer and his well-being are the most important factors in your
business. (You already have great aircraft.) Give your customer the feeling
that you love your job and that his questions are the most important thing
in the world to you.
2. Get someone who knows your aircraft intimately to answer the tech support
line.
3. Be honest about ship dates AND if you can't ship for some reason CALL the
customer and let them know!
4. Don't charge a credit card for a part until you ship the part. A customer
doesn't want to pay interest on money you use without gettin something in
return ( like the part ).
5. If you don't have the answer to a question ..... FIND IT! I called about
the wall thickness of a 4130 tube in the fuselage and was told by Serf that
he didn't know as that was handled by another department and I should go
measure it myself and have a nice day goodbye. I was in the process of
ordering parts from Wicks and the fuselage was not nearby. Thanks for your
help!
6. If you need an example of how to treat customers ..... go visit Jim and
Dondi at Aircraft Technical Support. Those people are so friendly,
interested in your project and knowledgeable that it makes you want to
forget to order something just so you can call them back!
Cheers, Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Folding Wings - 10 minutes it ain't! |
| From: | Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
Cliff,
Why walk the leading edge of the wing holding the weight of the wing when
you can simply lower it onto the foam padding pushing the aileron to
level position as it is lowered, with the weight of the wing spar on your
back?
It would be a lot less work and speed up the process a little.
Here's what I do for the wing:
1) take the clevis out of the upper lift strut with the weight of the
wing resting the spar on my back.
2) lower the strut to the ground while I raise the aileron to level and
rest the wing on my canoe mounts that I described in yesterdays post.
3) Take the clevis out of the lower end of the strut and store my strut
in a protected bag.
4) remove the main clevis pin out of the wing tab and rest the wing on
the re-installed tab.
5) lift the wing with a hand near the LE, and bring around and fold,
exercising caution while turning the LE downward.
As a reminder, I have found that set up and takedown is easier if it is
done x-wind. I had to learn this one the hard way when the winds lifted
up my wing and I was able to catch it before it hit the ground. Got
lucky.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar, 12 years flying
writes:
> holding the wing up walk the leading edge of your wing to the tip and
gently lay >it on the foam with the alieron extended to the rear, remove
the lift strut and >store
>
>Later,
>Cliff & Carolyn Stripling
>801 Avenida Serena, Marble Falls, Texas 78654
>Vista Del Rio (Central Texas Hill Country)
>(830)693-9333 (voice) -7633 (fax)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron hinges length? |
Greetings
The plans for the Aileron hinges calls for 6" long, so I started marking them
for cutting. I noticed there was lots of materiel left over. It was late so
I left the cutting for the following day. That night when I was rereading
the builder's manual it notes to cut 3 hinges 8" long. I'm going with the
manual's 8" unless someone can give me a good reason to go with the 6" as the
plans illustrates.
Sometimes it helps to procrastinate :-)
Will Uribe
building a FireStar II
http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Waligroski, Greg" <gwaligro(at)ball.com> |
| Subject: | Landing/Collision avoidance lights |
I have been following the string on the landing/collision avoidance lights
and want to rig a set on my Firestar. I have a question on how do you power
the lights. Are you powering these lights directly off of the AC from the
motor or are you sending this through a rectifier/regulator first? I have
rect/reg and no battery system (power to Tach, electric trim, radio, cheepo
strobes and voltmeter) but I am not sure of its current capability to handle
the approx. 4 to 6 amps I would expect from the landing lights. Not sure
what the AC voltage is coming off of the generator coils in AC, seems like I
measured 28VAC once. It would be nice just to simply power directly off of
that source. In the "Care and Feeding of Rotax" description of the power
system they indicate that one set of the generator coils were originally
used ot power lights on the snowmobiles. What lights did they use? Do the
lights even care if it's AC or DC? Is there a way to regulate the AC to
12V? Ah questions questions....any answers? Thanks.
Trying to be more visible in Colorado
Gregg Waligroski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
In a message dated 99-10-18 12:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
quick503(at)aisp.net writes:
<< Soooo, New Kolb if you are
monitoring this list here are a few suggestions from a fellow business
owner: >>
Every once in a while I come out of lurk mode to make this point. The
preface to this is that I am a Kolb mark 2 and mark 3 builder and flier. I
am also an aviation attorney. There are a few things that need to be pointed
out about customer support for what in the business is called "downstream
buyers" that is, people who bought their plane, not from the kit company,
but from the original builder, or some other person further down the chain.
First . . . . downstream buyers have no contractual relationship with
Kolb. None. When I bought my mark three I signed a contract for the
purchase of the kit which included a release to the company. Plus I gave
them a big piece of my hard earned. Kolb had a contractual obligation to me
and they have lived up to every term of it, but then they should because
they got the price they wanted. The same is NOT true of a downstream buyer.
I don't know this from personal experience but I'm told that if you call
up Glassair and ask to buy a part and don't have a customer number they just
hang up. Won't do business with you. The reasons are obvious. Kolb and
companies like it simply cannot buy insurance. Period. Downstream buyers
represent a HUGE source liability to the company, and zero (or nearly zero)
income.
A few years ago a downstream buyer crashed a Twinstar in Manatee County
Fla. I'm told the pilot was actually decapitated by the prop and the
passenger/student was horribly injured. That plane was made by Homer's
original company, Kolb Company, not Kolb Aircraft. Do you think that stopped
the lawsuit against Kolb Aircraft? You should have seen the plaintiff's
attorney, flew up from Florida in his Senneca, had dyed blonde hair, and a
pinky ring. It cost Kolb a lot to solve that problem.
No one likes to hear this, but I have seen the enemy and THEY ARE US.
There is a suit going on right now in Ohio between a mark 3 builder and
Rotax. The one of the carbs popped off his 582 and he went down in a
cornfield. Reported serious spinal injuries. He is suing for . . . well
you can imagine.
Another way to put my point is that when Kolb signed that contract with
me for the plane they took on almost unlimited liability. If I ever buy the
farm in my Kolb my grieving widow and 15 starving kids could very well decide
that that but for some terrible design error made by Kolb I would still be
around to feed and clothe them.
(Does that sound unlikely? My close personal friend and hangarmate
recently crashed his titan Tornado in a residential area outside of Stamford
Connecticut when his 420 hour 582 crankshaft flew apart. Before he left he
told me that all that stuff about decarboning periodically and rebuilding at
300 hours was bullshit. He used synthetic oil and didn't have any carbon on
the rings-- hey, nothing to worry about. He was several days in intensive
care and had to wear a clamshell brace for about 6 weeks. There were letters
of solicitation from aviation plaintiff's attorneys waiting for him when he
got home from the hospital!!)
So when I bought my kit Kolb took my money and my signed release and made
a business decision to give me the wherewithal to be a hazard to life and
property. Kolb never made that deal with the downstream buyer and never got
a penny from them. The $20.00 bellcrank for a Mark 3 that New Kolb sells to
a downstream buyer gets them millions of dollars of potential liability . .
for what? Twenty bucks? Some businessmen might not want to do that deal.
You may not like it, but you can certainly see why a businessman might ask
"Hey, what's in this for me?"
Old Kolb Aircraft made a business decision to support ALL of the Kolb
designs, even the ones they didn't make, like the Twinstar and the Ultrastar.
They would sell you parts for anything. As a lawyer I would have advised
them not to. All downside, no payoff. But they wanted to help out all the
customers and that was the way they wanted to business. God bless them.
As I understand it TNK has decided not to support the designs not
currently in production. I guess that makes sense. They have enough on
their plate at the moment. And their policy is that if you are a downstream
owner of a design that is in current production they will support you if you
sign a release, just like a kit buyer. That is more than a number of other
kit companies will do, and I thinks its great.
Bruce Chestnut is running a business, not the Salvation Army. His first
obligation is to the customers, and by that I mean the people he has direct
deals with, not people who bought their plane from someone else.
Its a scary world out there, and a kit company has to be careful who it
does business with. The plaintiff's attorney who is representing the Ohio
Mark 3 builder I mentioned above flies a Citation. He didn't get it by being
a nice guy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
Cavuontop
Ok, I understand where you are commin from, but................ Lets
suppose you knew from the get go that you would not be able to sell your
plane in the future because parts were no longer available to the
"downstream" buyer. How about any product in fact. Would you buy a product
that you were not able to get parts for? In fact service and parts
availability is an important part of a business. Any business. These
things ain't cheap. I am a "downstream" buyer and love my FSII but I assure
you if I knew I wouldn't be able to get parts in the future I wouldn't
invest in it. Availability of parts is a responsibility of a company wether
they like it or not. Part of any business is supplying parts. I
understand the liability they may or maynot take but without parts I would
bet my retirement they would be out of business in short order. Part of
what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em flyin".
I don't want to get into a fight about this but doesn't this make sense?
(Please type "Gary" in the subject box so I don't miss your message.)
Gary
Souderton,Pa.
gbthacker(at)hotmail.com
|
____F i r e S t a r____
___(+)___
(_)
\ /
>From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poor Customer Service
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:57:38 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 99-10-18 12:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>quick503(at)aisp.net writes:
>
><< Soooo, New Kolb if you are
> monitoring this list here are a few suggestions from a fellow business
> owner: >>
>
>
> Every once in a while I come out of lurk mode to make this point. The
>preface to this is that I am a Kolb mark 2 and mark 3 builder and flier. I
>am also an aviation attorney. There are a few things that need to be
>pointed
>out about customer support for what in the business is called "downstream
>buyers" that is, people who bought their plane, not from the kit company,
>but from the original builder, or some other person further down the chain.
>
> First . . . . downstream buyers have no contractual relationship with
>Kolb. None. When I bought my mark three I signed a contract for the
>purchase of the kit which included a release to the company. Plus I gave
>them a big piece of my hard earned. Kolb had a contractual obligation to
>me
>and they have lived up to every term of it, but then they should because
>they got the price they wanted. The same is NOT true of a downstream
>buyer.
>
> I don't know this from personal experience but I'm told that if you
>call
>up Glassair and ask to buy a part and don't have a customer number they
>just
>hang up. Won't do business with you. The reasons are obvious. Kolb and
>companies like it simply cannot buy insurance. Period. Downstream buyers
>represent a HUGE source liability to the company, and zero (or nearly zero)
>income.
>
> A few years ago a downstream buyer crashed a Twinstar in Manatee
>County
>Fla. I'm told the pilot was actually decapitated by the prop and the
>passenger/student was horribly injured. That plane was made by Homer's
>original company, Kolb Company, not Kolb Aircraft. Do you think that
>stopped
>the lawsuit against Kolb Aircraft? You should have seen the plaintiff's
>attorney, flew up from Florida in his Senneca, had dyed blonde hair, and a
>pinky ring. It cost Kolb a lot to solve that problem.
>
> No one likes to hear this, but I have seen the enemy and THEY ARE US.
>There is a suit going on right now in Ohio between a mark 3 builder and
>Rotax. The one of the carbs popped off his 582 and he went down in a
>cornfield. Reported serious spinal injuries. He is suing for . . . well
>you can imagine.
>
> Another way to put my point is that when Kolb signed that contract
>with
>me for the plane they took on almost unlimited liability. If I ever buy
>the
>farm in my Kolb my grieving widow and 15 starving kids could very well
>decide
>that that but for some terrible design error made by Kolb I would still be
>around to feed and clothe them.
>
> (Does that sound unlikely? My close personal friend and hangarmate
>recently crashed his titan Tornado in a residential area outside of
>Stamford
>Connecticut when his 420 hour 582 crankshaft flew apart. Before he left he
>told me that all that stuff about decarboning periodically and rebuilding
>at
>300 hours was bullshit. He used synthetic oil and didn't have any carbon
>on
>the rings-- hey, nothing to worry about. He was several days in intensive
>care and had to wear a clamshell brace for about 6 weeks. There were
>letters
>of solicitation from aviation plaintiff's attorneys waiting for him when he
>got home from the hospital!!)
>
> So when I bought my kit Kolb took my money and my signed release and
>made
>a business decision to give me the wherewithal to be a hazard to life and
>property. Kolb never made that deal with the downstream buyer and never
>got
>a penny from them. The $20.00 bellcrank for a Mark 3 that New Kolb sells
>to
>a downstream buyer gets them millions of dollars of potential liability . .
>for what? Twenty bucks? Some businessmen might not want to do that deal.
>You may not like it, but you can certainly see why a businessman might ask
>"Hey, what's in this for me?"
>
> Old Kolb Aircraft made a business decision to support ALL of the Kolb
>designs, even the ones they didn't make, like the Twinstar and the
>Ultrastar.
> They would sell you parts for anything. As a lawyer I would have advised
>them not to. All downside, no payoff. But they wanted to help out all the
>customers and that was the way they wanted to business. God bless them.
>
> As I understand it TNK has decided not to support the designs not
>currently in production. I guess that makes sense. They have enough on
>their plate at the moment. And their policy is that if you are a
>downstream
>owner of a design that is in current production they will support you if
>you
>sign a release, just like a kit buyer. That is more than a number of other
>kit companies will do, and I thinks its great.
>
> Bruce Chestnut is running a business, not the Salvation Army. His
>first
>obligation is to the customers, and by that I mean the people he has direct
>deals with, not people who bought their plane from someone else.
>
> Its a scary world out there, and a kit company has to be careful who
>it
>does business with. The plaintiff's attorney who is representing the Ohio
>Mark 3 builder I mentioned above flies a Citation. He didn't get it by
>being
>a nice guy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
In a message dated 99-10-18 2:42:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gbthacker(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Part of what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em
flyin". >>
Gary: Wrong. No businessman is required to make a stupid deal, and like it
or not the personal injury liability climate is part of the business
environment. Permit me to expand on my point. In the case in Florida I
mentioned in my first post Kolb Aircraft's ONLY connection to the accident
aircraft was a $20.00 aileron bellcrank. Kolb Company, Homer's original
company, sold the kit and got the money for the purchase price from the first
purchaser. Homer set the price on that kit to make a profit, which he kept.
If Homer had made a defective product we would expect him to dig into his
pocket for some of what he made on the deal to make good on his contract.
In the Florida case I mentioned the original builder kept the plane for a
few years and then sold it to the downstream buyer. At some point the
downstream guy calls up Kolb Aircraft, the successor to Homer's company, and
says "Hey, you don't know me from Adam, but how about selllin' me a
bellcrank." Dennis says ok, $20.00. That bellcrank was Kolb Aircraft's ONLY
connection to that accident.
Care to guess what it cost Kolb Aircraft to get out of that suit? Let me
put it this way-- if they had sold a couple more $20.00 bell cranks like that
they'd have been out of business and we'd all be flying Fergies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
>
> Every once in a while I come out of lurk mode to make this point. The
> preface to this is that I am a Kolb mark 2 and mark 3 builder and flier. I
> am also an aviation attorney.
Thanks Cavuontop
A well written explanation. I understand where you are
coming from.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
Mark
Are you saying I will not be able to buy the engine kit from The New Kolb
Aircraft because I purchased the first two kits from the old Kolb Aircraft?
Does The New Kolb Aircraft considers me a downstream buyer?
Will Uribe
http://members.aol.com/WillU/index.html
Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
> << Part of what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em
> flyin". >>
>
> Gary: Wrong. No businessman is required to make a stupid deal, and like
it
>
> or not the personal injury liability climate is part of the business
> environment. Permit me to expand on my point. In the case in Florida I
> mentioned in my first post Kolb Aircraft's ONLY connection to the accident
> aircraft was a $20.00 aileron bellcrank. Kolb Company, Homer's original
> company, sold the kit and got the money for the purchase price from the
> first
> purchaser. Homer set the price on that kit to make a profit, which he
kept.
>
> If Homer had made a defective product we would expect him to dig into his
> pocket for some of what he made on the deal to make good on his contract.
>
> In the Florida case I mentioned the original builder kept the plane
for
> a
> few years and then sold it to the downstream buyer. At some point the
> downstream guy calls up Kolb Aircraft, the successor to Homer's company,
and
>
> says "Hey, you don't know me from Adam, but how about selllin' me a
> bellcrank." Dennis says ok, $20.00. That bellcrank was Kolb Aircraft's
> ONLY
> connection to that accident.
>
> Care to guess what it cost Kolb Aircraft to get out of that suit? Let
> me
> put it this way-- if they had sold a couple more $20.00 bell cranks like
> that
> they'd have been out of business and we'd all be flying Fergies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
In a message dated 99-10-18 4:07:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WillU(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Are you saying I will not be able to buy the engine kit from The New Kolb
Aircraft because I purchased the first two kits from the old Kolb Aircraft?
Does The New Kolb Aircraft considers me a downstream buyer? >>
No, that's not what I'm saying. Obviously I don't speak for TNK, but
assuming your kit is still in production you are fine. I bought my Mark 3
kit from Kolb Aircraft. When I needed a part Bruce Chestnut simply asked me
to sign a release of the company, just like any new kit buyer, and now I'm a
member of the family and am supported with parts etc.. Personally, I think
TNK is treating me well. I've gotten good support and all I've ever bought
from them is one of the new style tailwheels and a shirt.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Guys;
If the New Kolb Company doesn't want to sell parts for second hand
planes, they should start telling people about it. About half the planes out
there are second hand. If you can't get parts what is the use to have one. I
have had problems every time I have ordered parts for New Kolb. Maybe I am
just unlucky, but the service seems to be pretty poor. I run my own business
and I didn't treat my customers the way they do.
Kent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sender: owner-kolb-list-server |
In a message dated 99-10-18 5:09:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
striplic(at)tetric.com writes:
<< What is the "new style" tailwheel. You got my attention. Mine is starting
to become worn and littler and littler. >>
The new style tailwheel is available from Kolb or from Wag Aero. I prefer to
do business with the Kolb folks so I bought mine from them. It is quite a
bit heavier than the old one and needs to be drilled to fit. I have a bunch
of other little projects I'm working on at the moment and won't get tot hat
installation for a while. I think principal benefit will be for guys with
differential brakes (not me). You know how GA taildraggers "break the tail
wheel loose" and swing the back end around pivoting on one main? This tail
wheel will permit you to do that. The fact of the matter is that my stock
mark three tailwheel works fine when the field is dry, but when it is soft
the wheel is so thin that I sometimes cut a furrow in the turf. So I got the
new one which is about twice as wide.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
My point is if people can't get parts they won't buy the planes. If I were
buyin a new Chevy and knew that when I traded it in no one would buy it
because they couldn't get parts I would go somewhere else. I know Kolb is a
small company and profits are tight but without parts these things are
worthless. Maybe not now to the original owner but you might as well torch
it if you want to upgrade.
I have had know exp with the new Kolb at all. I do know first hand that
members of the old Kolb have been traveling south of the border on a regular
basis helping with the transition. I am confident that the problems will be
ironed out and all will be well. Cavuontop, I understand the way things
are. But like I said before lawers or know right or wrong if you can't get
parts then the business fails. It may be a double edged sword but that's
the way it is. Suppose the word got out that you couldn't get parts for
your plane. Think you could sell it. Heck when I was lookin for mine the
big thing was they are still in production and parts are available. No
parts no business.
Gary
>From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poor Customer Service
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:36:33 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 99-10-18 2:42:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gbthacker(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
><< Part of what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em
>flyin". >>
>
>Gary: Wrong. No businessman is required to make a stupid deal, and like
>it
>or not the personal injury liability climate is part of the business
>environment. Permit me to expand on my point. In the case in Florida I
>mentioned in my first post Kolb Aircraft's ONLY connection to the accident
>aircraft was a $20.00 aileron bellcrank. Kolb Company, Homer's original
>company, sold the kit and got the money for the purchase price from the
>first
>purchaser. Homer set the price on that kit to make a profit, which he
>kept.
>If Homer had made a defective product we would expect him to dig into his
>pocket for some of what he made on the deal to make good on his contract.
>
> In the Florida case I mentioned the original builder kept the plane
>for a
>few years and then sold it to the downstream buyer. At some point the
>downstream guy calls up Kolb Aircraft, the successor to Homer's company,
>and
>says "Hey, you don't know me from Adam, but how about selllin' me a
>bellcrank." Dennis says ok, $20.00. That bellcrank was Kolb Aircraft's
>ONLY
>connection to that accident.
>
> Care to guess what it cost Kolb Aircraft to get out of that suit? Let
>me
>put it this way-- if they had sold a couple more $20.00 bell cranks like
>that
>they'd have been out of business and we'd all be flying Fergies.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary: Poor Customer Service |
I have to agree with Cavuontop that we live in a tough world, and his
explanation is realistic.
I built an Anglin J-6 from almost scratch a number of years ago, and since
I bought what few pieces I didn't build from Grover Aircraft's bankruptcy
auction, (caused by a lawsuit that destroyed the company) I knew that
if/when I ever sold the aircraft, I was the guy that would finally eat the
big one if it ever got smushed. You can't imagine the extent of the
hold-harmless agreement the buyer had to give me when I sold it. (Among
other things, he agreed to imdemnify me if he sells it, and/or anyone
downstream ever has occasion to sue ME)(And my copy of that form is safely
locked away)
IMHO the Kolb line of aircraft is simple enough that almost anything can be
remade from raw materials except a trashed cage. And maybe even that.
Anyone that takes over a downstream aircraft needs to be above average in
technical/mechanical skills anyway, and any skills not presently possessed
can be easily learned. People that cannot/willnot learn to
build/rebuild/reverse engineer their own airplanes when they are as simple
as Kolbs are....??? When you buy a Kolb, 95% of what comes in the box is
raw material anyway, so that makes them easy to fix.
Until we change this country's legal system, I think Kolb is better off
ignoring the downstream buyer. If I ran the thing, I sure would.
Cavuontop's right. Sorry
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>Cavuontop
>
>Ok, I understand where you are commin from, but................ Lets
>suppose you knew from the get go that you would not be able to sell your
>plane in the future because parts were no longer available to the
>"downstream" buyer. How about any product in fact. Would you buy a product
>that you were not able to get parts for? In fact service and parts
>availability is an important part of a business. Any business. These
>things ain't cheap. I am a "downstream" buyer and love my FSII but I assure
>you if I knew I wouldn't be able to get parts in the future I wouldn't
>invest in it. Availability of parts is a responsibility of a company wether
>they like it or not. Part of any business is supplying parts. I
>understand the liability they may or maynot take but without parts I would
>bet my retirement they would be out of business in short order. Part of
>what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em flyin".
>
>I don't want to get into a fight about this but doesn't this make sense?
>
>
>(Please type "Gary" in the subject box so I don't miss your message.)
>
>
>Gary
>
>Souderton,Pa.
>gbthacker(at)hotmail.com
>
> |
> ____F i r e S t a r____
> ___(+)___
> (_)
> \ /
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Service |
Kent
I'm on your side buddy. They will get this straightend out. I really don't
think they don't want to sell us parts. To me they might as well put a gun
to their heads.
Gary
>From: Kenmead(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Poor Service
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:29:01 EDT
>
>
>Hi Guys;
> If the New Kolb Company doesn't want to sell parts for second hand
>planes, they should start telling people about it. About half the planes
>out
>there are second hand. If you can't get parts what is the use to have one.
>I
>have had problems every time I have ordered parts for New Kolb. Maybe I am
>just unlucky, but the service seems to be pretty poor. I run my own
>business
>and I didn't treat my customers the way they do.
>
> Kent
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Service |
In a message dated 99-10-18 5:51:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gbthacker(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I'm on your side buddy. They will get this straightend out. I really
don't
think they don't want to sell us parts. To me they might as well put a gun
to their heads. >>
I think you guys aren't hearing me. TNK is supporting all of the designs
currently in production whether they sold the kit or not. All you have to do
is sign a release.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/16/99 |
Hi, Have been reading the list for several weeks now, and have picked up some
good info from you guys. Thanks to all.My question is, has anyone had a tail
heavy condition to deal with on an FS 2 w/503dcdi, wood prop? I needed some
weight up front to get to 35% chord. Thanks again, G Aman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <quick503(at)aisp.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Customer Service |
Ignore the downstream buyer? Kolb aircraft are pretty well built and should
outlast the interest of the original builder so sooner or later most
surviving aircraft will be owned by a downstream buyer. Also a very high
percentage of kit type aircraft are not finished by the original buyer but
completed by a "downstream buyer". Personally I could survive if Kolb
wouldn't sell me parts ( although it does make life easier ) because I have
the skills to build them, but I DO need information. I can't guess about a
cg range or angle of incidence of the wing. I can't feel confident in the
aircraft if I can't confirm it was put together right. Which situation would
put the company at more risk .... providing any info needed to make a safe
aircraft or saying "tough luck, your not the original buyer just make your
best guess". In my business I feel my prime responsibility is to try to
educate people who have the best of intentions but very little knowledge. As
an UL flight instructor and aircraft mechanic that is the best I can do.
Kolb has a responsibility to educate an owner ( new or otherwise ) as best
as they can.
Kolb has not refused to sell me parts. After they decided to sell me a set
of plans things seem to be going smoother. I got a call from a very nice
person named Travis Brown at New Kolb today about the dual control kit I
ordered and enjoyed talking to him. I felt like he thought my concerns were
important.
I understand the liability problem as I make my living in this industry ...
I just don't know what to do about it without ending up in jail myself. I
think New Kolb will make it if they put the customer first.
Just a thought but doesn't it sound a little egotistical to think that the
only ones who deserve support from Kolb are those who can afford to buy a
new kit? Cheers, Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Customer Service |
>
>In a message dated 99-10-18 2:42:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gbthacker(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Care to guess what it cost Kolb Aircraft to get out of that suit? Let
me
>put it this way-- if they had sold a couple more $20.00 bell cranks like
that, they'd >have been out of business and we'd all be flying Fergies.
>IMHO the Kolb line of aircraft is simple enough that almost anything can be
>remade from raw materials except a trashed cage.
Ahh the F-- word again. Yes you can even reverse engineer a cage, if you
have to.
Hardly anything on the plane requires a real jig except for the cage.
Funny story about parts verses "aircraft" parts - using a 10 gallon 1/8
inch thick
tank made for a holding tank on travel trailer and yes it holds gas just
fine-for years. You couldn't crack this thing with a slug hammer.
Tumble molded with no seams. But had a small problem with one fitting
which was melted on at the factory - made the mistake of sending it back
for a look-see. Small problem but they smelled gas and asked what exactly
was it being used for? Guess what? No more tanks at any price, no way, no
how.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/18/99 9:29:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< Part of being "best" means optomizing
hardware to the task while considering temperature
rise, power consumption, installation ease, utility,
cost/performace ratio, etc. We who have roots deep in
the certified aircraft world bring a lot of baggage with
us when it comes to sorting out what's useful versus
what's found on the heavy-iron birds we learned in.
Right here in these forums is where we sort through the
pieces and parts to see what's really useful while
hopefully eliminating all things from the hard-to-do pile.
Bob . . .
>>
Bob you are a good communicator ......keep up the good work! ......... GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Service |
Cavuontop
Yes, yes,yes that's the story. You are right they will not sell the parts
without the release. That's not problem with me. Parts are available and
are being shipped.
I was talking to those who know this evening. That is the story they will
not ship without a release. They were having problems with some of the
landing gears so they didn't ship them. They were a month behind on the
gear. Parts are being shipped as we speek as long as they have the release.
Gary
>From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poor Service
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:56:59 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 99-10-18 5:51:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gbthacker(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
><< I'm on your side buddy. They will get this straightend out. I really
>don't
> think they don't want to sell us parts. To me they might as well put a
>gun
> to their heads. >>
>
>
> I think you guys aren't hearing me. TNK is supporting all of the
>designs
>currently in production whether they sold the kit or not. All you have to
>do
>is sign a release.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary: Poor Customer Service |
Richard
I guess it doesn't make any difference now that we know there is no problem
gettin parts as long as the release is signed. I still think a company
needs to supply parts though. I know I wouldn't buy the best design in the
world if it had no resale value. I do however agree with ya on the lawyer
thing. Thats the problem.
Gary
>From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
>Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gary: Poor Customer Service
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:37:31 -0400
>
>
>I have to agree with Cavuontop that we live in a tough world, and his
>explanation is realistic.
>I built an Anglin J-6 from almost scratch a number of years ago, and since
>I bought what few pieces I didn't build from Grover Aircraft's bankruptcy
>auction, (caused by a lawsuit that destroyed the company) I knew that
>if/when I ever sold the aircraft, I was the guy that would finally eat the
>big one if it ever got smushed. You can't imagine the extent of the
>hold-harmless agreement the buyer had to give me when I sold it. (Among
>other things, he agreed to imdemnify me if he sells it, and/or anyone
>downstream ever has occasion to sue ME)(And my copy of that form is safely
>locked away)
>IMHO the Kolb line of aircraft is simple enough that almost anything can be
>remade from raw materials except a trashed cage. And maybe even that.
>Anyone that takes over a downstream aircraft needs to be above average in
>technical/mechanical skills anyway, and any skills not presently possessed
>can be easily learned. People that cannot/willnot learn to
>build/rebuild/reverse engineer their own airplanes when they are as simple
>as Kolbs are....??? When you buy a Kolb, 95% of what comes in the box is
>raw material anyway, so that makes them easy to fix.
>Until we change this country's legal system, I think Kolb is better off
>ignoring the downstream buyer. If I ran the thing, I sure would.
>Cavuontop's right. Sorry
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>
> >
> >Cavuontop
> >
> >Ok, I understand where you are commin from, but................ Lets
> >suppose you knew from the get go that you would not be able to sell your
> >plane in the future because parts were no longer available to the
> >"downstream" buyer. How about any product in fact. Would you buy a
>product
> >that you were not able to get parts for? In fact service and parts
> >availability is an important part of a business. Any business. These
> >things ain't cheap. I am a "downstream" buyer and love my FSII but I
>assure
> >you if I knew I wouldn't be able to get parts in the future I wouldn't
> >invest in it. Availability of parts is a responsibility of a company
>wether
> >they like it or not. Part of any business is supplying parts. I
> >understand the liability they may or maynot take but without parts I
>would
> >bet my retirement they would be out of business in short order. Part of
> >what they take on when they get into the business is "keepin em flyin".
> >
> >I don't want to get into a fight about this but doesn't this make sense?
> >
> >
> >(Please type "Gary" in the subject box so I don't miss your message.)
> >
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >Souderton,Pa.
> >gbthacker(at)hotmail.com
> >
> > |
> > ____F i r e S t a r____
> > ___(+)___
> > (_)
> > \ /
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann.g(at)centrum.is> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10/16/99 |
Hi G Aman.
I have the Firestar II with 503 DCDI engine with IVO prop, but my plane is nose
heavy. Everything is according to the plans in the nose. I even have the EIS
system, which should make it lighter on the instrument panel. I am using both
fuel tanks, and have the VLS chute between the wings. My seat back is in the
most aft position. I am 6'1".
Hope this helps,
Johann G.
Iceland
Firestar II / 43 hrs.
ZepRep251(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi, Have been reading the list for several weeks now, and have picked up some
> good info from you guys. Thanks to all.My question is, has anyone had a tail
> heavy condition to deal with on an FS 2 w/503dcdi, wood prop? I needed some
> weight up front to get to 35% chord. Thanks again, G Aman
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gordona(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Customer support policies |
I've been following the discussion on support for "downstream" owners of Kolb
aircraft with great interest. Obviously, this is no small issue. Aside from
the liability issues addressed, there is the issue of resale value of Kolb
aircraft. If TNK's policy is that all Kolb models that are not currently being
produced are "orphaned", that's a policy that should not be make lightly, nor
should we infer it. In other words, I think it's time for TNK to issue a policy
statement about parts and documentation support for Kolb products, as well as
for TNK products. It's unfair to them and to the customer base for anyone else
to speak for them.
I'm considering the purchase of a MKIII, either new from TNK, or used (from
someone on this newsgroup). My decision, in either case, will be influenced by
TNK's policy. I look forward to a response from TNK.
Gordon Arbeitman
gordona(at)us.ibm.com
(512) 838-9714 (voice)
(512) 838-9716 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Counterweights - FSII |
How have some of you secured the sliding weights in the aileron
counterweight? The plans call for 3 rivets on the bottom, but they would
have to VERY long rivets as the sliding weight is a solid steel bar. A
couple of bolts would hold it, but the installation would be unsightly.
I am considering cutting some notches in the solid steel as anchor
points and using epoxy.
Any other methods to suggest?
Thanks.
--
****************************************************
* Bill Weber * Thunder's just the noise *
* Simi Valley, CA * Lightning does the work *
****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | On the lighter side... |
After the recent threads about legal mumbo jumbo , etc. I thought it was
time for something lighter. (I know we all have to face it but it gives me
HEARTBURN!!!) I thought I'd mention that I have updated my web site with
some more photos and stuff... There are some shots of a flight in a Waco
biplane over Destin, Fl. that I accidently scanned at too low of a
resolution and they look grainy (I have been trying to keep things as low
resolution as possible to minimize download time , but these were not
acceptable..I just haven't had time to rescan them yet.)
Also thought I'd mention that there is a fly-in in Smiths Station, Al. this
Sat. the 23rd. They are expecting a good turn out normally is between 40-60
ul's. Never been too many Kolb's though so anyone in the area please try to
come if you can. They will have burgers and such for lunch and they are
really sprucing up the place. I was out there last night for something
unrelated and saw alot of folks working and we all know how RARE THAT IS!!!
This is at Jones Light Aviation and is on the Atlanta sectional , I can get
the GPS coordinates if you need them.
I have made some good progress on my M3 the last couple of weeks and have a
couple of questions.
1. I was going over the rough/sharp edges of my cage with a file , getting
it ready to powdercoat and thought I'd test fit the gear legs. They would
only go in about 3-4 inches before binding up and I didn't want to get the
hammer out cause it was a test fit. How tight should they be??? If they
are that hard to go in then they will be dang near impossible to get out
WHEN I bend them!? And there is no paint/powdercoating in there yet to
tighten up the hole . Suggestions????
2. I am considering covering the rear cage area all the way up to the bottom
of the wing (ala Miss P'fer , Ron Christensen Mark 3 1/2) and was wondering
if that required adding another tube in the cage in the top to catch the
fabric or is there some other way?
3. Aligned , drilled , and cleco'd the nose cone in place to locate where
the doors will hit out so I can weld on a couple of tabs for a door lift
like the picture on my web page and run into a problem. The windsheild/door
support attaches via a metal fitting on each side of the cage. The
windsheild rivets flush to the top of the tube and overlaps the top of the
nose cone. BUT the tube is held down out of the plane by the lip around the
top edge of the nose cone...SOOOO there will be a gap between the windsheil
and the tube that supports it toward the bottom of the tube. Now I don't
reckon I'm the first to scratch my head about that so any "What I did was
this.." statements would be appreciated!!!
Thanks for reading this far...
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
http://jrcasey.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bluhm <irena(at)ccis.com> |
Hey Lar,,
One of your recent listings refered to the folding of wings.
I noticed that you have lowered your entire tail section, to increase
the angle of attack, by bending the tail wheel gear-leg. If my memory
is correct, I believe you have lowered the tail at least two inches.
This will negate all efforts to fold your wing to the existing
attachment point as your leading edge will rest on the ground. I
mentioned this to you while visiting, but it didn't seam to regester.
I would suggest that you mount the tail-feather weights and the engine
weight, then measure just where you will have to mount your
boom-tube/wing mounting tube. With the pre-bent tailwheel leg, you might
just have to modify this mounting location. If your wings aren't
covered yet, then you must understand their weight also will bent this
tailwheel leg a bit.
I mention this as my folded wings offer only about one and a half inches
of clearance from the ground when folded.
Doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the lighter side... |
Look inside the leg hole. Is there a bit of deformation caused by welding?
You will need to remove this so the leg fits in snug but not tight. If not
you will have a hell of a time getting it out again. I know. One little bit
of advice is try and find room to carry a spare leg or 2 with you. They
don't weigh that much and if you put it down hard off airport it will be a
lot easier to get home or out again if you are up on the wheels. Personal
experience talking here. And you want these to be exchangeable so they must
slide in and out easily without a hammer.
>
>I have made some good progress on my M3 the last couple of weeks and have a
>couple of questions.
>1. I was going over the rough/sharp edges of my cage with a file , getting
>it ready to powdercoat and thought I'd test fit the gear legs. They would
>only go in about 3-4 inches before binding up and I didn't want to get the
>hammer out cause it was a test fit. How tight should they be??? If they
>are that hard to go in then they will be dang near impossible to get out
>WHEN I bend them!? And there is no paint/powdercoating in there yet to
>tighten up the hole . Suggestions????
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
I wish I still had the quote but Molt Taylor said it best when he said if
you want to sell an aeroplane guarantee it will cause death or serious
injury due to poor pilotage, construction or engineering. By signing this
they accept the guarantee and if the day comes the guarantee will be
fullfilled there should be no problem. How does that sound Mr. Lawyer :)
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On the lighter side... |
Would running a cylinder hone up in the leg socket due the trick???
Jeremy Casey
-----Original Message-----
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: On the lighter side...
>
> Look inside the leg hole. Is there a bit of deformation caused by
welding?
>You will need to remove this so the leg fits in snug but not tight. If not
>you will have a hell of a time getting it out again. I know. One little bit
>of advice is try and find room to carry a spare leg or 2 with you. They
>don't weigh that much and if you put it down hard off airport it will be a
>lot easier to get home or out again if you are up on the wheels. Personal
>experience talking here. And you want these to be exchangeable so they must
>slide in and out easily without a hammer.
>
>
>>
>>I have made some good progress on my M3 the last couple of weeks and have
a
>>couple of questions.
>>1. I was going over the rough/sharp edges of my cage with a file , getting
>>it ready to powdercoat and thought I'd test fit the gear legs. They would
>>only go in about 3-4 inches before binding up and I didn't want to get the
>>hammer out cause it was a test fit. How tight should they be??? If they
>>are that hard to go in then they will be dang near impossible to get out
>>WHEN I bend them!? And there is no paint/powdercoating in there yet to
>>tighten up the hole . Suggestions????
>
September 23, 1999 - October 19, 1999
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-br