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Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bw
January 05, 2000 - January 22, 2000

Seems like that would be cleaner than having the full hinge exposed. Maybe not, just asking. I found myself just looking at it today trying to decide what to do next. Thanks Our Best Tim Townsend ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Fw: How Many Gallons
Date: Jan 05, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Tim T99 Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 11:23 PM Subject: How Many Gallons Me again, The wife and spent I some time in the CPS catalog today making a shopping list. We are at $1000.00 before the Polytone. Do any of you know how many gallons of the final Polytone is needed for a mark III? Lets say just for the base color. It sure is getting exciting now. I can see it all coming together now, what a neet thing to do in your spare time. I am also going through Dallas Shepherd's 582, it is in great shape. I am just going to replace the rings and lightly hone the cylinders. While I have it a part I am thing of painting the complete engine red and all the hardware black. Carburetor solvent makes it look better than new, Maybe I should leave it. What do you think? Thanks, Our Best Tim Townsend ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKN106(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
L Ray I used this clear tygon tuben that I got at home depo it is about 1 1/4 dia. I slid it over the nozel of my gas can and it was long enough so that the fill can was outside of the plane ,it workes great Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: "Richard Neilsen " <NeilsenR(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
I followed the instructions and temporally mounting the hinges before covering, removed, covered, then installed the hinges. I later recovered a flap that had the hinge installed. I much prefer the looks of the hinges that had been removed before covering. Rick Neilsen 20hrs VW powered MKIII <<<<<<>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
Date: Jan 06, 2000
I certainly hope you made some provision to ground everything together. Using plastic with pouring gas is a very scary and dangerous thing to do. The resulting explosion, fire could ruin a good flying day. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: RICKN106(at)aol.com <RICKN106(at)aol.com> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 11:44 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel tank caps. > >L Ray >I used this clear tygon tuben that I got at home depo it is about 1 1/4 dia. >I slid it over the nozel of my gas can and it was long enough so that the >fill can was outside of the plane ,it workes great > > Rick > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
I have been told that black painted engines dissipate heat better for some reason. Anyone have any insight regarding ths point? Would our engines run cooler if black? Thanks Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
> I followed the instructions and temporally mounting the hinges before covering, removed, covered, then installed the hinges. I later recovered a flap that had the hinge installed. I much prefer the looks of the hinges that had been removed before covering. > > Rick Neilsen 20hrs VW powered MKIII > > <<<<<< pins and cover everything being careful around the hinges? Morning Gang: When I build, I build the entire airplane, using Clecos and aluminum rivets when necessary. I want everything rigged and fit before I start messing with fabric and paint. The aluminum rivets from the local hardware store were great for temporarily attaching hinges because they were easy to drill out prior to covering. I make sure I do all the wiring and plumbing before covering, trying to keep in mind, "Am I going to have to get back in there to repair or replace something after it is covered." Now is the time to plan on inspection plates, access holes, etc. Try to make it easy on yourself now and then further on down the road. As for covering and painting supplies: I personally would stick with the professionals, Jim and Dondi Miller. They are on the Kolb List, provide covering kits for new Kolb Aircraft, and can and will answer the many questions you will have when you start covering and painting, especially if it is your first time. It has been so long since I have had to cover and paint, I will rely on their current experitise to get me started and thru completion, when the time comes. I have had real good luck covering and finishing Kolbs. What I learned, I learned from the old Stitts Manual, Kolb Builder's Manual, and by "getting my hands dirty." Also by talking to people who had been there and done that, had already made the mistakes, and by looking at a lot of airplanes at air shows. Here is one cardinal rule that you must follow to cover and finish successfully: What you start with is what you are going to finish with." What that means is do the very best you can at every step of the process. If you go to the next step before you have done every thing you can to smooth and finish the last step, those boogers are going to be there when you shoot the last cup of paint. The most important tool in covering, to me, is the 1100 watt iron and the little model airplane iron. Learn to use these tools and use them a lot. Pay attention to detail and don't go to the next step until you have absolutely done the best job possible on the step you are presently working on. Don't be afraid to turn that old iron up high to smooth poly tac and fabric wrinkles down on larger tubes. The tubes will act as heat sinks and pull most of the heat away quickly. Enjoy learning to cover, use all the assets available to you, especially Aircraft Technical Support, Inc., do a good job, be proud and enjoy your Kolb. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
> I certainly hope you made some provision to ground everything together. > Using plastic with pouring gas is a very scary and dangerous thing to > Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! Cy and Kolbers: Thanks for the information. How do we go about grounding our plastic gas tanks, filler hoses, fuel can, etc.? Which Kolb are you building, or interested in building? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gordona(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Cooling system pressures
Pressure is like voltage. You're measuring the "pressure drop" at a specific point in the cooling system. The caps could be working perfectly and you can still see 18 psi between the two radiators. I would suspect a blockage in one of the radiators. You might try bypassing the radiators (one at a time) and see if the problem "follows" a specific radiator. I have no experience with Rotax cooling systems but I've seen this type of problem in cars. Please let us know what you find. Gordon Arbeitman gordona(at)us.ibm.com (512) 838-9714 (voice) (512) 838-9716 (fax) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Any North Georgia members out there!
Are there any list members in the North Atlanta or Alpharetta, Georgia area? If so let me know so we can connect. Would like to know where you're flying from, etc. Jon Berndsen Alpharetta, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Bill Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Bill Weber <bweber2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
A black object radiates heat at all frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum if it is hotter than its surroundings (black body radiation). Other colors radiate in a more limited spectrum. Thus black objects radiate more heat. However, in our engines, heat is mostly dissipated by convection (air moving over it) rather than by radiation. I don't have any figures, but I would suspect that heat dissipation by radiation is a very small fraction of total heat dissipation, especially if there is significant air movement over the engine. dann mann wrote: > > > I have been told that black painted engines dissipate heat better for > some reason. Anyone have any insight regarding ths point? Would our > engines run cooler if black? > Thanks > Dan > -- **************************************************** * Bill Weber * Thunder's just the noise * * Simi Valley, CA * Lightning does the work * **************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
Cy Galley wrote: > > > I certainly hope you made some provision to ground everything together. > Using plastic with pouring gas is a very scary and dangerous thing to do. > The resulting explosion, fire could ruin a good flying day. > > Cy Galley I agree that this can be a problem. However, grounding a non conducting surface will not do anything to solve the problem. Also, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of UL gas tanks are made of one polymer or another. In the "Mr. Funnel" thread recently, there were those who strongly advocated grounding the airframe when re fueling. Sounds like a good idea. When filling your gas can (usually plastic) from the gas pump it is important to keep the hose nozzel (which is grounded) in good contact with the side of Mr. Funnel (which is conductive). When pouring gas into the UL tank from your mixing container I am not sure what you can do to reduce potential (pun intended) for a problem. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
dann mann wrote: > > > I have been told that black painted engines dissipate heat better for > some reason. Anyone have any insight regarding ths point? Would our > engines run cooler if black? > Thanks > Dan Any material body above 0 K is constantly giving off electromagnetic radiation. This is what IR (night vision) detectors see. The hotter the body, the more the peak shifts to the IR. Yes, if the body is black it will more efficiently give off this radiation. Conversely, if it is sitting out in the sun exposed to similar radiation it will more efficiently ABSORB the radiation. To test the effect, sometime feel the different colored surfaces of aircraft on the flight line. One time I felt two spots within a couple of inches of one another. One was white, the other a pale yellow, and they were at significantly different temperatures. That said, however, I don't think the "cooling effect" by this method would be measurable, or at least usefully so. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
John Hauck wrote: > > > > I followed the instructions and temporally mounting the hinges before covering, removed, covered, then installed the hinges. I later recovered a flap that had the hinge installed. I much prefer the looks of the hinges that had been removed before covering. > > Rick Neilsen 20hrs VW powered MKIII > > <<<<<< > pins and cover everything being careful around the hinges? > Morning Gang: > > When I build, I build the entire airplane, using Clecos and > aluminum rivets when necessary. I want everything rigged > and fit before I start messing with fabric and paint. > > The aluminum rivets from the local hardware store were great > for temporarily attaching hinges because they were easy to > drill out prior to covering. I did a similar thing. If the location was convenient for clecos, I put them in. In some cases however, if clecos are in place one cannot test movement of ailerons etc due to the obstruction of the clecos themselves. In this case I took hardware store pop rivets and knocked the mandrils out. Then inserted them in place and put a narrow band of filement tape (3M brand, of course ;-) ) over them to hold them in place. Worked real well, and saved need to drill them out later. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
> However, in our engines, heat is mostly dissipated by convection (air > moving over it) rather than by radiation. I don't have any figures, but > I would suspect that heat dissipation by radiation is a very small > fraction of total heat dissipation, especially if there is significant > air movement over the engine. Typical heat balance losses from an ideal engine that accounts for all energy in a unit of fuel: fuel energy equivalent - 5410 hp total energy lost through exhaust - 2790 hp total thermal losses - 1020 hp radiation - 290 hp conduction to air - 600 hp conduction to oil - 130 hp mechanical losses - 300 hp output brake hp - 1600 hp J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
> However, grounding a non conducting > surface will not do anything to solve the problem. Also, keep in mind > that the overwhelming majority of UL gas tanks are made of one polymer > or another. Providing a current path to ground will solve the problem. Once the spark jumps, it's all over..... > > In the "Mr. Funnel" thread recently, there were those who strongly > advocated grounding the airframe when re fueling. Sounds like a good > idea. When filling your gas can (usually plastic) from the gas pump it > is important to keep the hose nozzel (which is grounded) in good contact > with the side of Mr. Funnel (which is conductive). When pouring gas > into the UL tank from your mixing container I am not sure what you can > do to reduce potential (pun intended) for a problem. All that's necessary is to run a conductor from the tank, of whatever material, to the fueling container and assure that the airframe is gounded as well. J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: Engines Black
Bill, You are exactly right. I Read article where they tested the tempts of same engines painted different colors. The difference was almost undedectable. They made the same conclusion you did. ...Richard Swiderski Bill Weber wrote: > > A black object radiates heat at all frequencies of the electromagnetic > spectrum if it is hotter than its surroundings (black body radiation). > Other colors radiate in a more limited spectrum. Thus black objects > radiate more heat. > > However, in our engines, heat is mostly dissipated by convection (air > moving over it) rather than by radiation. I don't have any figures, but > I would suspect that heat dissipation by radiation is a very small > fraction of total heat dissipation, especially if there is significant > air movement over the engine. > > dann mann wrote: > > > > > > I have been told that black painted engines dissipate heat better for > > some reason. Anyone have any insight regarding ths point? Would our > > engines run cooler if black? > > Thanks > > Dan > > > > -- > **************************************************** > * Bill Weber * Thunder's just the noise * > * Simi Valley, CA * Lightning does the work * > **************************************************** > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
gill, It is my understanding that all materials can acquire electrostic charges on their surface. In the case of a "nonconducting" plastic can, the moving fuel can build up a static charge on its surface untill it builds up enough potential to jump to the nearest ground. This spark has caused many a surprising fires. An alligator clip & wire connected to your can, funnel & frame equalizes the static surface potentials & eliminates the possibility of the spark. Thank goodness this doesn't happen much in the usually humid FL weather. I must admit I never have grounded my equipment. I also know there are many pilots who used "nonconducting" funnels & cans that regrettably wished they did ground their fueling process. I guess I need to add to my New Years Resolutin list ...Richard Swiderski ggleiter(at)minn.net wrote: > > Cy Galley wrote: > > > > > > I certainly hope you made some provision to ground everything together. > > Using plastic with pouring gas is a very scary and dangerous thing to do. > > The resulting explosion, fire could ruin a good flying day. > > > > Cy Galley > > I agree that this can be a problem. However, grounding a non conducting > surface will not do anything to solve the problem. Also, keep in mind > that the overwhelming majority of UL gas tanks are made of one polymer > or another. > > In the "Mr. Funnel" thread recently, there were those who strongly > advocated grounding the airframe when re fueling. Sounds like a good > idea. When filling your gas can (usually plastic) from the gas pump it > is important to keep the hose nozzel (which is grounded) in good contact > with the side of Mr. Funnel (which is conductive). When pouring gas > into the UL tank from your mixing container I am not sure what you can > do to reduce potential (pun intended) for a problem. > > gil leiter > MAPLEWOOD, MN > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank caps.
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Hey Gang, >From: Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> > It is my understanding that all materials can acquire electrostic >charges >on their surface. In the case of a "nonconducting" plastic can, the moving >fuel can build up a static charge on its surface untill it builds up enough >potential to jump to the nearest ground. This spark has caused many a >surprising fires. An alligator clip & wire connected to your can, funnel & >frame equalizes the static surface potentials & eliminates the possibility >of fire. Don't forget, that static electricity can also travel through your body. If you are touching the fuel can or fuel nossle with your bare skin; ie hand, you are grounding the fuel container to you. If you then touch and make continuous bodily contact with your plane as you pour the fuel there isn't much possibility for a spark unless there is a thundercloud near by. I do this when fuelling: I pick up the fuel can or nozzle with one hand and place my other hand on some part of my plane such as the engine or tail boom, this discharges any potential static build up. Then I place one hand on the nozzle to guide it to the fill hole. With my elbow, or head or any part I have bare I can ground again to any part of the plane before I actually let the nozzle touch the tank or fill hole, once the nozzle has make contact with the tank or plane in any way I keep it in continuos contact as I pour. This dissipates any static charge as it occurs. "No gap, no spark, no fire". Going flying up to the Maule plant at Moultrie, Ga. again this weekend. I heard that there were some EAA members up there that has forgotten what they joined the EAA for. We'll give them a little taste of what flying is all about. There should be about 10-12 planes. Some say there is going to be a "Poker Run" and country food. Firehawk > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank and sparks
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Hey Gang, >From: Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net> > It is my understanding that all materials can acquire electrostic >charges >on their surface. In the case of a "nonconducting" plastic can, the moving >fuel can build up a static charge on its surface untill it builds up enough >potential to jump to the nearest ground. This spark has caused many a >surprising fires. An alligator clip & wire connected to your can, funnel & >frame equalizes the static surface potentials & eliminates the possibility >of fire. Don't forget, that static electricity can also travel through your body. If you are touching the fuel can or fuel nossle with your bare skin; ie hand, you are grounding the fuel container to you. If you then touch and make continuous bodily contact with your plane as you pour the fuel there isn't much possibility for a spark unless there is a thundercloud near by. I do this when fuelling: I pick up the fuel can or nozzle with one hand and place my other hand on some part of my plane such as the engine or tail boom, this discharges any potential static build up. Then I place one hand on the nozzle to guide it to the fill hole. With my elbow, or head or any part I have bare I can ground again to any part of the plane before I actually let the nozzle touch the tank or fill hole, once the nozzle has make contact with the tank or plane in any way I keep it in continuos contact as I pour. This dissipates any static charge as it occurs. "No gap, no spark, no fire". Going flying up to the Maule plant at Moultrie, Ga. again this weekend. I heard that there were some EAA members up there that has forgotten what they joined the EAA for. We'll give them a little taste of what flying is all about. There should be about 10-12 planes. Some say there is going to be a "Poker Run" and country food. Firehawk > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: coolant overpressure, head gasket?
Jim<<<Jim/ list: > I have been following this thread, and wondered, Could a leaking >cylinder head gasket cause this? That was one of my guesses too (and it may still be a factor), but it still asks the question, how can the pressure get to 18 with a 13 psi cap? I have retorqued the head (nuts didn't move, just clicked), no change. And I will eventually get down the list far enough to put in a new head gasket if something else doesn't fix it first. And I will report the eventual fix. Thanks for the input! Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Silicate-free
Havoline has an "Extended Life" coolant available too, which says "silicate and phosphate-free" . I picked up a gallon at NAPA for $7.50 yesterday. Says it conforms to newest GM requirements, and is a pretty orange color. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: coolant overpressure, head gasket?
I > have retorqued the head (nuts didn't move, just clicked), no change. And I > will eventually get down the list far enough to put in a new head gasket if > something else doesn't fix it first. And I will report the eventual fix. > Thanks for the input! > > Jim > Jim and Gang: If I understand your comment above, ref retorquing your cylinder head, you not may have done the procedure correctly. As I understand, to retorque a nut or bolt one must loosen first, then sneak back up on it to the correct torque. If one doesn't break the bolt loose first, it will probably be stuck and give a false reading. A leaking head gasket on a two stroke will let you know in a hurry it is leaking. I am sure you will get a lot of oil in the coolant of your cooling system. If no oil is found in coolant, I personally would not go to the trouble of replacing cyl head and base gaskets, unless it makes ya feel better. :-) Sounds to me like the pressure cap is not releasing immediately at its rated capacity. For some reason the release valve is sticking until it gets hotter or until it gets a little over pressure, or both, to pop it loose. Don't think any of those caps are precision instruments and we should probably not expect them to perform perfectly. If I remember correctly and read your post correctly your pressure pickup point is between the radiators. If so, isn't that on the back side of the water pump? Seems that you could get a lot of variation in pressure on the back side as the thermostat opens and closes, and rpm changes. Or without a thermostat installed, pressure fluctuations from different eng speeds and temps. I think sometimes we get wrapped around the axle with instrumentation on ultralight power plants. I personally do not use a pressure gauge for coolant on the 912, and didn't when I was flying the 582. If I had coolant pressure problems I didn't know about it. I did have leaking shaft seal, happened at OSH 93. Asked some of the Rotax gurus what I should do. Told me to fly it home, which I did with no further problem, except drooling oil reservoir. Changed and upgraded the water pump seals. Don't think over pressure caused the seal failure, but there were signs of wear on the shaft. Don't remember if I was running distilled water back then. I do know I was not running low silicate antifreeze. Heck, did not know it existed until last Fall. But remember, this was a 1991 model 582 with about 200 hours on it. I think they have upgraded this system several time since then. john h (thinking out loud at hauck's holler, alabama) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
Date: Jan 07, 2000
>fuel energy equivalent - 5410 hp 100% >total energy lost through exhaust - 2790 hp >total thermal losses - 1020 hp > radiation - 290 hp > conduction to air - 600 hp > conduction to oil - 130 hp >mechanical losses - 300 hp >output brake hp - 1600 hp > > >J.Baker converting to percentages just for fun energy HP % fuel energy 5410 100 exhaust 2790 51.57116451 radiation 290 5.360443623 conduction air 600 11.09057301 conduction oil 130 2.402957486 thermal total 1020 18.85397412 mechanical 300 5.545286506 powerout 1600 29.57486137 totals 5710 105.5452865 So tell me again, why do we send 51% of the energy in the fuel out the exhaust pipe? not sure where the extra 5 % comes from! Turbocharge them engines Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
>> > <<<<<<> > pins and cover everything being careful around the hinges? > > That is the way we did it. Installed every thing, pulled the hinge wires and then covered. We deviated from the plans a bit and cut small slits in the fabric and placed the slits over the tabs of the hinges. Looks good with just the tabs sticking out of the fabric. Of course if the hinge ever wears out it will be harder to repair but how often do the hinges wear out and by then it should be ready for recover anyway. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vic Worthington" <vicw(at)vcn.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Thanks to Will I received a couple of potential leads for dual instruction. I originally limited the search to west of the Mississippi River but have decided to expand the search area to include the whole US. I really don't like the idea of jumping in and flying with out some dual time in something that flies like the Firestar. For those of you flying a Firestar, what did you take your instruction in and how was the transition to the Firestar. Vic ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Ron Hoyt <Ronald.R.Hoyt@gd-is.com>
Subject: Re: coolant overpressure, head gasket?
I don't know if it will work on your engine but one test on an automobile is to watch the coolant for bubbles at the filler cap before the engine heats up. Ron >Jim<<< >>Jim/ list: >> I have been following this thread, and wondered, Could a leaking >>cylinder head gasket cause this? > >That was one of my guesses too (and it may still be a factor), but it still >asks the question, how can the pressure get to 18 with a 13 psi cap? I >have retorqued the head (nuts didn't move, just clicked), no change. And I >will eventually get down the list far enough to put in a new head gasket if >something else doesn't fix it first. And I will report the eventual fix. >Thanks for the input! > > >Jim > > >~~************ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: How Many Gallons
> >fuel energy equivalent - 5410 hp 100% > >total energy lost through exhaust - 2790 hp > >total thermal losses - 1020 hp > > radiation - 290 hp > > conduction to air - 600 hp > > conduction to oil - 130 hp > >mechanical losses - 300 hp > >output brake hp - 1600 hp > > > > > >J.Baker > > converting to percentages just for fun > > energy HP % > fuel energy 5410 100 > > exhaust 2790 51.57116451 > > radiation 290 5.360443623 > conduction air 600 11.09057301 > conduction oil 130 2.402957486 > thermal total 1020 18.85397412 > > mechanical 300 5.545286506 > powerout 1600 29.57486137 > > totals 5710 105.5452865 > > So tell me again, why do we send 51% of the energy in the fuel out the > exhaust pipe? not sure where the extra 5 % comes from! > > > Turbocharge them engines I really thought about doing the math, I really did! But as I was one finger typing the above, with my feet up on the desk, two cats asleep on my legs, and the book I got the figures from in one hand, it was going to be too much of an effort to bring the calculator up and run the figures. My error...the 5% extra comes from a supercharger diagram where the 5% was the mechanical losses from that unit. Anyway, I was amazed at the exhaust figures when I first ran across them. What was even more amazing was the small gain indicated for supercharging. indicated input before supercharger - 1960 hp supercharger loss - 60 hp indicated output after supercharger - 1900 hp - 300 hp mechanical loss total output - 1600 hp While the supercharger actually cost basis output hp, the hp was available at higher altitudes. I haven't seen a similar diagram for turbocharging but would suspect it may be better (more efficient) than the supercharger diagram. J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Hundley" <rhundley(at)erols.com>
Subject: Test
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Test ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Gallons and Covering
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Thank you all, Man, that is just what I needed to here. All your posts are very much appreciated. I think with all your blessings that I will paint my engine red and black cool... The covering over the hinges thing is still open. I have seen them both ways and if done right I think it could look good. Thanks for the tip about Jim and Dondi Miller, They sent me an welcome and help. I will look into there service for sure. Our Best Tim T. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Vic, I took 2-1/2 hrs dual instruction in a Quicksilver MX. I flew my FireStar on the first flight and bent the gear legs. Things only got better with each and every flight. I had never flown a taildragger and essentially taught myself how to handle it and didn't take long to figure things out. If the first flights were powered landings (flying to the ground), they would have been smoother. At the time I was concerned about pitching moment if I applied power to arrest the sink rate before touchdown. Don't be concerned, as this is not a problem. Power off landings need more precision to get the timing of the flare right ...... too early it balloons ..... then drops, too late it bounces. Either way, this could be a problem in a x-wind and not desirable for a novice. Stick with the powered landings (3500 RPM) until some time is built. Just my opinion ......... Ralph Original FireStar, 13 years flying writes: > >For those of you flying a Firestar, what did you take your instruction in >and how was the transition to the Firestar. > > Vic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00
Date: Jan 07, 2000
My understanding has been that with the Stits/PolyFiber covering, the most important thing is to protect the fabric from U/V degradation. The silver paint is reflective, and is proven to do the job. If the black (or other color) blocks the UV, there shouldn't be any problem, from that aspect anyway. Main problem (proven) with dark colors, is the heat build-up. Dark colors absorb heat, light colors reflect it. Anyone who doubts this, has only to get in and out of a few different colored cars on a hot summer day. Come visit me next summer if you be a doubter. Palm Springs will make a believer out of you in a hurry. Again, my understanding is that high temps are mainly a problem on composite aircraft, since some of the resins start softening at a fairly low temperature, and THAT could be interesting, to say the least. Since we don't have that problem, probably the big thing would be in the comfort level inside. I think I read the same article on the engine paint, and if memory (??) serves me, it did show that black radiated the most heat. However, any paint also acted as an insulator, so the net effect was about zero. Not to be argumentive, but personally, I prefer light colors everywhere. On metal, so cracks, flaws, and leaks DO show up, and on fabric to reduce the heat build up, and increase visibility. LongWinded Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim T99 <townsend(at)webound.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00 > > I was told that white reflects the uv light more than > darker colors and therefor was longer lasting on > covered airplanes. Can't wait to get the results of this one. > I haven't chosen my colors yet either. > > Our best > > Tim T. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Colors
Date: Jan 07, 2000
A passing thought brought on by the paint thread. A couple of years ago, I drove to Perris, CA. to look at ultralights, and, hopefully, to talk to the owners. Didn't work out too well, the few people there were totally anti-social. Made me feel guilty for bothering them. Back to the point - a mile or 2 short of the airport, I saw a plane (looked like a Rans S-12) take off from a field about 1/4 mile ahead of me. It was painted a dark color, and disappeared against the hills almost immediately. Made a pretty strong impression on this ole boy. I have also - many times - had difficulty finding dark colored traffic when in the pattern for landing. Vamoose is gonna be White. My opinion only. Big Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ian Heritch" <heritch(at)connecti.com>
Subject: Elevator hinge
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Drilled one of the elevator hinges to the elevator with the hinge upside down. When I turned the hinge right side up many of the holes did not line up perfectly. I re-drilled these imperfect holes and now they are not round and have some slop, but look like they would rivet together just fine. But, it is the elevator! So, do I leave well enough alone and use the original 1/8" rivets, or should I use the larger 5/32" rivets? If I need to buy 5/32" rivets, I can only find rivets this sze manufactured by Cherry from "Monel steel". Is this the correct steel rivet to use? Thanks for your help... Ian Heritch, Slingshot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard Ping" <hping(at)hyperaction.net>
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00
Steve My Fiirestar is black, really get's hot in the summer when I go to fly-in's and it sit's out all day. A lot of fellow flyers complain that I'm hard to see if I'm below them,but I'm easily spotted when I fly above them. Theres a few pictures if you want to click below. Howard http://www.hyperaction.net/hping ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCowan1917(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: rotax 503
Hey everyone, got a new string for you. Buddy has a coyote S-5 Rans with a 503 d/carb. They left the plastic fan shroud on with original run-up and fried rear piston. I was not there to witness damage but now it is apparent front cylinder must have been scratched too. Only 70 hours on engine. Rear piston has what I consider to be a lot of carbon and front one also only more wet looking. We took exhaust off and rear looked good with new hatches but front looked like it was wearing fast. Had a lot of brown carbon scoring on exhaust side of piston and could see where they tried to fix scratch in cylinder wall on intake side. This is tractor prop and cowled. Egs were low as far as I was concerned, runs about 900 to 1000. CHTs were always up there 375 to 400 sometimes plus with take off revs. It has also eaten a cooling belt and has been adjusted several times. There is about two inches clearance between the fan and firewall. It looks as though it is eating exhaust heat for cooling. Gonna put a hole or air scoop on top of cowling to help air flow. My question really is, how bad does a build up of carbon affect the engine and do you think it will clean the piston and cylinder when we get the CHs down and raise the EGs? The rings are free at this point. I realize the best solution is a tear down but other than that, what are the odds. The engine runs like a champ. Most of the time it is running around 56 to 58 hundred rpms. Plugs came out after 40 hours or more with just a little carbon and wear. Has anyone put a scoop on a coyote S-5? The engine is upright by the way. Thanks. G'day Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00
Bill Weber wrote: > > > Since black absorbs all radiation, it would also absorb the UV. I would > expect a reflective coating like silver to provide the best UV > protections > Interestingly enough, the carbon black in roofing membranes used on flat roofs absorbs all the UV in just the top layer of the membrane and protects the rest of the thickness. go figure....... ww ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
Tim T99 wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim T99 > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 11:02 PM > Subject: When to Cover > > Man I am getting close. When should I cover what?? > I have every thing built but nothing mounted. Looks like I will need > to mount and rig all the tail feathers to get everything right and straight, > and the final riveting (except the attachment gussets) before I cover them. > My big question is, can I complete all hinge installation then remove the > pins and cover everything being careful around the hinges? > Seems like that would be cleaner than having the full hinge exposed. > Maybe not, just asking. > I found myself just looking at it today trying to decide what to do next. > > Thanks > > Our Best > > Tim Townsend I prefer to drill the holes and then hold hinges in place with clecos. One can also buy hardward store pop rivets, knock the mandrils out, stick them in and hold in place with filiment tape. This works to test that everything is right. Then take hinges off and cover. Once you start cover process, complete it. Do not put some coats on and leave lay around for a long period before next coats. After all coats, put hinges in place and permanently pop rivet in place. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator hinge
Morning Gang: Elevator and rudder hinges do wear out or tangs break and make them unserviceable. I replaced all elevator and rudder hinges on the MK III in Sep 99, at 1275.9 hours. There is a terrific load on the lower rudder hinge caused by tail wheel springs constantly pulling on the rudder "T". After a period of time the rivets attaching this hinge will get sloppy on the tail post. Give your rudder a little fore and aft push and watch the lower hinge for slop. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator hinge
> But, it is the elevator! So, do I leave well enough alone and use the > original 1/8" rivets, or should I use the larger 5/32" rivets? > > > Ian Heritch, Slingshot Ian and Gang: If it was my airplane and I was gonna be flying it, I would double the length of the hinge, use 1/8th inch rivets and drive on. I am not telling you to do that. My recommendation to you is call Kolb Co and get their expert advice. john h (I always use more hinge than the plans call for) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
When I first flew my Anglin J-6, I had a 503 in it with similar clearance between the fan intake and fire wall, and the cowl (Which was similar to a Piper Vagabond looking cowl) was intended to ram enough air in to give the engine something to work with. It didn't. Barely made it around the pattern without frying the engine. Subsequently made a scoop which hung down to just below the cowl and ducted the air directly to the engine cooling air intake, with soft rubber baffles between the engine and duct to keep it from leaking away. Also made metal ductwork from the cooling air exit holes in the engine shroud to the exterior of the airplane cowling to make the heated air all go outside the cowl. CHT's went from 400+ down to 300-325 degrees. Interesting that you mention that it had eaten the cooling belt and needed frequent adjustment. Mine did also. I think when you have large heat buildup inside a cowl, it degrades the belts very quickly, much faster than normal. If it was mine, I would clean all the carbon off the pistons and internals, get them all in unblemished condition, (Called a top end overhaul, trying to save money on obviously worn/iffy parts is false economy, unless you can rebuild your airplane /pay your doctor bills cheaper) and cowl and duct that sucker until the CHT's were down around 325-350 max. And also find a way to let the hot air escape from the cowl after engine shut down so that it doesn't sit there and heat soak. I ended up using a louver panel in the top of the J-6 cowl. (Building supply store, normally fits in the eaves of the house, under two bucks, under six ounces. Blend it in careful, watch the cosmetics, it will look factory.) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > >Hey everyone, got a new string for you. Buddy has a coyote S-5 Rans with a >503 d/carb. They left the plastic fan shroud on with original run-up and >fried rear piston. I was not there to witness damage but now it is apparent >front cylinder must have been scratched too. Only 70 hours on engine. Rear >piston has what I consider to be a lot of carbon and front one also only more >wet looking. We took exhaust off and rear looked good with new hatches but >front looked like it was wearing fast. Had a lot of brown carbon scoring on >exhaust side of piston and could see where they tried to fix scratch in >cylinder wall on intake side. This is tractor prop and cowled. Egs were >low as far as I was concerned, runs about 900 to 1000. CHTs were always up >there 375 to 400 sometimes plus with take off revs. It has also eaten a >cooling belt and has been adjusted several times. There is about two inches >clearance between the fan and firewall. It looks as though it is eating >exhaust heat for cooling. Gonna put a hole or air scoop on top of cowling to >help air flow. My question really is, how bad does a build up of carbon >affect the engine and do you think it will clean the piston and cylinder when >we get the CHs down and raise the EGs? The rings are free at this point. I >realize the best solution is a tear down but other than that, what are the >odds. The engine runs like a champ. Most of the time it is running around >56 to 58 hundred rpms. Plugs came out after 40 hours or more with just a >little carbon and wear. Has anyone put a scoop on a coyote S-5? The engine >is upright by the way. Thanks. G'day Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: Colors
Back when I still had my Hummer, I had a couple occasions when I got similar flak. (And of coures, a Hummer looks a lot more ultra-lighty than a MKIII). My standard ploy was to ask if they could see the N-numbers on the fuselage, and when they said yes, tell them; "Well then it is obviously not an ultralight, is it? Do you ever read the FAR's, or even know what an ultralight actually is? Or do you just go by what you think it is?" And then the situation would usually go downhill, but sometimes life's like that... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > > A couple of years ago, I >> drove to Perris, CA. to look at ultralights, and, hopefully, to talk to the >> owners. Didn't work out too well, the few people there were totally >> anti-social. Made me feel guilty for bothering them. > > Big Lar. > >Big Lar and Gang: > >I know what you mean. Done been there and done that. Five >days out of Titus, Al, June 1994, I had followed the US >border to San Diego, CA, back to Borrego Springs, and then >over the mountains thru the smog and down in the ground fog >of the LA Basin. I was excited about landing at Perris >Valley Airport. Big SOB chewed my ass out for landing on >the active runway. Said I was supposed to land on the UL >runway. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Waligroski, Greg" <gwaligro(at)ball.com>
Subject: Prior to Firestar
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Vic, I recieved my instruction in a T-Bird before flying the Firestar. Compared to the Firestar the T-Bird flew with a very heavy feel and sunk like a rock with the power off. It also kept your feet relatively busy on the takeoff and rollout to keep it on the centerline, the Kolb takes alot less effort. So my transition to the Kolb was easy, just anticipated the better glide and lighter handling and was pleasantly suprised by the better ground handling. Gregg Waligroski Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: john hauk's adventure ...
Tim and Gang: Went back and reread my post in response to Big Lar's and Perris Valley Airport, California. Didn't realize it when I sent it, but I guess it could be misleading. Did not mean to mislead you or anyone else, that I had flown to California, Alaska, and around the border in a Firestar. That flight was in my MK III. Up until 1990 I did all my XCs in my Firestar, all the States East of the Mississippi, plus some west of it, and Canada. Thirty two States in all. Tim, it is a matter of putting a lot of short legs together to make one long flight. Just point the nose the way you want to go and do it. Need to do a little home work first, but that's about all there is to it. Especially if you fly a Kolb. :-) john h BTW: Before I lost my Firestar I had planned to do a true circumnavigation of the border of the Continental US the summer of 1990. No doubt in my mind I could not have accomplished that one too. We had done our homework and were ready to go. I built the MK III to make that flight plus fly the dog leg to Barrow, Alaska, from Seattle, WA. I was 205 miles short of Barrow, at Dead Horse, Alaska, on the Arctic Ocean, when I had to make the decision to turn around and head back. My flight next summer will be to fly to Barrow, Alaska, and finish up the flight I started in 1994. These little Kolb airplanes will take you there and get you back, along with all the gear you must take with you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
A > >For those of you flying a Firestar, what did you take your instruction in >and how was the >transition to the Firestar. > >Vic > > I'm gonna get flac for this one but with caution you can transition yourself if you have prior flying experience (mine was in a Cessna). Get a lot of taxi time in it first. Be able to put that sucker any where you want it at any time. Practice with the tail down and with the tail up. Get comfortable with the characteristics of you machine. When the time comes, give it the gas and go play around a bit in the sky and when you wish to land do not plan to land the first time. If it dosn't feel right take it around again, no big deal. With practice you will get it lined up and fly it onto the ground. I usually chop the throttle a couple feet up and hold the nose up till it lands itself. The tail dragger part becomes a non issue. I have had to do this with a Kolb flyer, ultra star, Twinstar, Firestar and Mk 111. Caution is the key word and patience either in taxiing or trying to land. A friend accidentally got airbpourne first time he taxied his Firestar. He remembered my advice. Took him 3 tries to get back on the ground. He got over his fear of the taildragger and agreed it was pretty much a non issue. Not the best way to train but it is possible if there is no other way. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Colors
Date: Jan 08, 2000
I don't want to give the wrong impression. I didn't fly to Perris, I drove my car. Perris, for those of you unfamiliar with it, is a Huge skydiving/ultralight center, mainly jumpers. I walked into the ultralight shed/tie down area, said hello to people I passed, and was totally ignored. Nice folks, real fun. Walked back past 6000 yuppie jumpers, who also didn't speak, got in my car and drove home. Never been back. Don't miss it. Disgusted Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Colors > > Back when I still had my Hummer, I had a couple occasions when I got > similar flak. (And of coures, a Hummer looks a lot more ultra-lighty than a > MKIII). My standard ploy was to ask if they could see the N-numbers on the > fuselage, and when they said yes, tell them; "Well then it is obviously not > an ultralight, is it? Do you ever read the FAR's, or even know what an > ultralight actually is? Or do you just go by what you think it is?" > And then the situation would usually go downhill, but sometimes life's like > that... > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > > > > > > A couple of years ago, I > >> drove to Perris, CA. to look at ultralights, and, hopefully, to talk to the > >> owners. Didn't work out too well, the few people there were totally > >> anti-social. Made me feel guilty for bothering them. > > > > Big Lar. > > > >Big Lar and Gang: > > > >I know what you mean. Done been there and done that. Five > >days out of Titus, Al, June 1994, I had followed the US > >border to San Diego, CA, back to Borrego Springs, and then > >over the mountains thru the smog and down in the ground fog > >of the LA Basin. I was excited about landing at Perris > >Valley Airport. Big SOB chewed my ass out for landing on > >the active runway. Said I was supposed to land on the UL > >runway. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Colors
Date: Jan 08, 2000
I sent that last before I read this whole thing, John. What a trip ! ! ! I'm really envious. Wish Vamoose was done so I could trail you part way, but my turn'll come next year. This year will just take me to Utah, Montana, (certainly, Paul ), Idaho, Washington, and British Columbia. If you get into this area, give a call. I've covered almost every square foot in the Western 1/3rd of the country, and up into Canada; I may be able to make some suggestions. From here, I haven't been to Hesperia yet, but plan on it soon, to visit Revmaster. I've heard good things about the place. I can attest to Apple Valley, about 10 - 15 miles north of Hesperia. That's a real great, old fashioned airport, full of good people, planes, projects, and a good restaurant. I took my Champ lessons there, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Colors > > A couple of years ago, I > > drove to Perris, CA. to look at ultralights, and, hopefully, to talk to the > > owners. Didn't work out too well, the few people there were totally > > anti-social. Made me feel guilty for bothering them. > > Big Lar. > > Big Lar and Gang: > > I know what you mean. Done been there and done that. Five > days out of Titus, Al, June 1994, I had followed the US > border to San Diego, CA, back to Borrego Springs, and then > over the mountains thru the smog and down in the ground fog > of the LA Basin. I was excited about landing at Perris > Valley Airport. Big SOB chewed my ass out for landing on > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Colors
Date: Jan 09, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:21 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Colors >>Disgusted Lar. Know what y'all mean. In the early 90's(93 or 4), having just gotten into U/L's, I was in Palm Springs doing some trade show work and made an appointment to get a lesson from the guys at Perris. Had read quite a lot about the place in U/L Flying magazine. Drove over and walked around the place a good 45 or 50 minutes and didn't get so much of a nod hello by anyone there. Didn't get talked to until I announced in the U/L place that I was there for my lesson. The instructor was busy asking for an advance on his pay from the owner of the place..... Went up and about 25 minutes into the lesson the engine dies. Well I had seen the fuel filter sucking air and had mentioned it to the instructor...no response, 'till the big silence. I was a lot calmer than him as this would be my 4th or 5th dead stick (another story) and he said he'd never had one! After we landed I took out my leatherman tool and started to take the filter off, meanwhile he's whining about having to walk a mile back to the strip. I blew out the funk, which looked suspiciously like the remains of a red shop towel, reinstalled the filter and started the engine. No problem. The instructor flew us back to the strip and I got no refund on the time unused...and we wonder why some GA guys look down on our sport! Geoff "at home with the flu and can't sleep" Thistlethwaite ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: UL Activity around Ft. Myers, Fla.
Am considering moving to Ft. Myers, Fla. and am seeking info about UL activity near there. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: technical counselor
Mike and Kathleen Hale wrote: > > > Hi list, > My firestar two is ready for cover and I would like to find a technical > counselor to look over my work, this would include anyone who knows > something about these ships. I live on Bainbridge Island, near Seattle, WA. Hi Mike. Im not a tech Counselor, but I have SEEN a Kolb before :). so call me if you are ready. I get to Bainbridge a couple times a month at least. Mike Brown Olympic Ultralights ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net>
Subject: Re: Colors
Hey Lar, If you get Vamoose done by this summer and don't make it through here, there will be hell to pay. N618HP is coming along slowly, but things should speed up now that the holidays are over (Of course skiing and snowmobiling could get in the way). We will definitely be ready for spring flying. Take care PaulV Larry Bourne wrote: > > I sent that last before I read this whole thing, John. What a trip ! ! ! > I'm really envious. Wish Vamoose was done so I could trail you part way, > but my turn'll come next year. This year will just take me to Utah, > Montana, (certainly, Paul ), Idaho, Washington, and British Columbia. If > you get into this area, give a call. I've covered almost every square foot > in the Western 1/3rd of the country, and up into Canada; I may be able to > make some suggestions. From here, I haven't been to Hesperia yet, but plan > on it soon, to visit Revmaster. I've heard good things about the place. I > can attest to Apple Valley, about 10 - 15 miles north of Hesperia. That's a > real great, old fashioned airport, full of good people, planes, projects, > and a good restaurant. I took my Champ lessons there, and thoroughly > enjoyed it. Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lawrence Dorn" <ldorn(at)sinclair.net>
Subject: Re: technical counselor
Date: Dec 29, 1999
hey did you guys know there are two brothers at Apex airport in Silverdale that have firestars? Lawrence ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 12:21 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: technical counselor > > Mike and Kathleen Hale wrote: > > > > > > Hi list, > > My firestar two is ready for cover and I would like to find a technical > > counselor to look over my work, this would include anyone who knows > > something about these ships. I live on Bainbridge Island, near Seattle, WA. > > Hi Mike. Im not a tech Counselor, but I have SEEN a Kolb before :). so > call me if you are ready. I get to Bainbridge a couple times a month at > least. > Mike Brown > Olympic Ultralights > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: David Bruner <brunerd(at)hvi.net>
Subject: Mk II performance
New thread - for all Mk II owners: My Mk II is about 340lbs empty, with a 503 Single Carb & Single CDI, brand new GSC 3-blade 60" pitched to 6200 static. With 2 people and fuel - up to max 750lbs - it just doesn't seem to climb too well. Even on cool days (30-40) it only gets about 200-300 fpm on climb out (estimated). I'd like to ask you other mk II owners' performance figures/engine combinations are. TIA, db ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
I would think free flow to the cooling fan and out the top of the engine are both critical. Either physical blockage, such as the firewall, or cowling pressure direction problems must be accounted for. Whoops, I just read Richard Pike's msg on this ...sounds like he's nailed it for you. My side interest in this is that I've always thought it might be possible to put a scoop even on a pusher 447 or 503, so long as there was also some ducting back to the prop to draw the cooling air back. Goal here may seem cheesy, that is, wondering if a light molded scoop and backside ducting could take the place of the weight and power draw of the standard cooling fan, bearings, belt, etc. If it could be proven to work, even sawing off some of the cast part of the engine that supports the cooling fan area. Think this is all too far out? --- TCowan1917(at)aol.com wrote: > > Hey everyone, got a new string for you. Buddy has a > coyote S-5 Rans with a > 503 d/carb. They left the plastic fan shroud on > with original run-up and > fried rear piston. I was not there to witness > 1000. CHTs were always up > there 375 to 400 sometimes plus with take off revs. > It has also eaten a > cooling belt and has been adjusted several times. > There is about two inches > clearance between the fan and firewall. It looks as > though it is eating > exhaust heat for cooling. Gonna put a hole or air > scoop on top of cowling to Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
Woody and Gang: For the previous post, thanks for the invite. I agree with your philosophy for learning to land a Firestar or any other fixed wing, for that matter. It is not necessary to land the first attempt, second, third, or, for that matter, til you run out of gas, the ROTAX bites the dust, or it gets too dark to see. Fly it to the ground with or without power. Not necessary to flare, and stall it in. That will come later. Most of the bent Kolbs I have seen as the result of first attempted landing screwups were not maintaining airspeed to touchdown, i.e., mushing in, or flaring way to high and falling in. Just fly that little sucker right down to the ground and hold it there with some forward stick til it gets below flying speed. With a tail dragger, if you come in hot and hit hard, the tail comes down, the nose goes up, and you are flying again. Got to give it some forward stick if it bounces so you won't break it. Here's where learning to taxi with the tail in the air comes in to play. You will feel more comfortable pushing the nose over cause you have already been there and done that. The normal tendancy is do nothing or pull back on the stick. If you do you will probably bend something. Just remember you do not have to land the first attempt. john h BTW: Good post Woody. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: rotax 503
In a message dated 1/9/00 1:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, bwr000(at)yahoo.com writes: << My side interest in this is that I've always thought it might be possible to put a scoop even on a pusher 447 or 503, so long as there was also some ducting back to the prop to draw the cooling air back. >> The original Benson Gyrocopter using the Mccullough 4 cyl. 2 stroke 72 HP engine used exactly the same method you are talking about. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PFI" <redhill(at)rose.net>
Subject: Re: tail dragger flying
Date: Jan 09, 2000
I'm new to tail dragger flying after having flown nose wheel planes previously. The biggest transition that I experienced is that if you land a tail wheel plane on its main gear first, then you must keep the tail up. This means pushing forward on the stick once those wheels touch down and then allow your speed to drop and the tail to slowly fall. If you allow the mains to touch a little hard, then the tail will be forced down just by the force of the hard landing, which means the wings will be generating lift again and up you go. In a nose wheel plane if you land hard, the nose will be forced down and the lift will be gone so you stay on the ground with this type plane. The hardest thing for me to visualize was why that tail dragger bounced so much if I let the mains touch first. Once I realized that I couldn't allow the tail down until my airspeed dropped, then I could land the taildragger with not near the problems. Actually, it wasn't always a bounce as it was me allowing the tail to lower before my airspeed dropped. I was trained to do the 3 point landing. In this configuration the object is to keep the mains off the ground while your speed drops. This is accomplished by continually pulling back on the stick which lowers the tail. Eventually, when the gear touches down, you will already be in a high nose situation with no extra lift to be gained by lowering the tail any further. You land with the stick all the way back which gives you ground control with the tail wheel once it touches. This also is the slowest land speed for the plane. This may not be real clear to everyone since I have trouble expressing myself on the first draft, but this is a little of my experience in the transition to learning to fly a tail wheel plane from a nose wheel plane. Hope it helps someone. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
Date: Jan 09, 2000
An air scoop on a 503 on a MKII has been done with out a fan or belt with great success. Terry Crook down at Shady Bend, Fl. did this a few years ago. He was just looking for economy. He got it. Firehawk >From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: rotax 503 >Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 10:23:54 -0800 (PST) > > >I would think free flow to the cooling fan and out the >top of the engine are both critical. Either physical >blockage, such as the firewall, or cowling pressure >direction problems must be accounted for. Whoops, I >just read Richard Pike's msg on this ...sounds like >he's nailed it for you. My side interest in this is >that I've always thought it might be possible to put a >scoop even on a pusher 447 or 503, so long as there >was also some ducting back to the prop to draw the >cooling air back. Goal here may seem cheesy, that is, >wondering if a light molded scoop and backside ducting >could take the place of the weight and power draw of >the standard cooling fan, bearings, belt, etc. If it >could be proven to work, even sawing off some of the >cast part of the engine that supports the cooling fan >area. Think this is all too far out? > >--- TCowan1917(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, got a new string for you. Buddy has a > > coyote S-5 Rans with a > > 503 d/carb. They left the plastic fan shroud on > > with original run-up and > > fried rear piston. I was not there to witness > > > 1000. CHTs were always up > > there 375 to 400 sometimes plus with take off revs. > > It has also eaten a > > cooling belt and has been adjusted several times. > > There is about two inches > > clearance between the fan and firewall. It looks as > > though it is eating > > exhaust heat for cooling. Gonna put a hole or air > > scoop on top of cowling to > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net>
Subject: flying in rain
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Went flying today in PA and got caught in the rain for the first time. Just wondering what I should watch out for in the rain as far as plane performance and engine performance, or is it that you just get wet. Everything seemed fine maybe a little more vibration. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: flying in rain
> Just wondering what I should watch out for in the rain as far as plane > performance and engine performance, or is it that you just get wet. Thanks Randy Randy and Gang: Other airplanes, antenna towers, mountains, trees, and of course your airstrip. Just kiddin! Sometimes on XCs I enjoyed a little rain. At 80 mph, rain will clean all the leading edges of wings, struts, tail section, prop, and last but not least, the windshield. Rain blast TDB's (those darn bugs) right off lexan. Rain will also blast the leading edge off wooden props that do not have leading edge protection. Also carbon fiber blades will start to erode after extended flight if they are not protected. Do not know about Power Fin and Ivo. No experience, other than rain showers in the traffic patterns at Lakeland and OSH, with the IVO. Never flown with a Power Fin, so can not comment. Have flown in heavy rain with 912 on MK III for extended periods of time with no problem. Flown thru much rain with 447 on Firestar with no problem, except leaving Sun and Fun 1989. Been punching little rain showers from Lakeland to about 10 miles south of Crytal River, Florida. The last little rain shower turned out to be a Florida "frog strangler". Decided time to put down somewhere cause I was down to the tops of those tall pines. Flew downwind beside a dry drainage ditch parallel US 98 to check it out when the flame started going out. Instead of dragging my off site landing area, I had no choice but to do a quick left base and short final into the ditch. It worked out ok. Brand new GSC two blade fixed pitch wooden prop, unprotected edge, missing quite a bit of leading edge on both blades, but it still flew ok and got me back to Alabama. Spent 3.5 hours in the rain, under the wing, freezing to death, waiting for the rain to stop and enough ceiling to continue my flight back to Alabama. Someone reported a plane crash and half the fire trucks, sheriff's deputies, and ambulances in Hernando County descended on the scene. I was wet, cold, and hungry, but no one thought to ask if I needed anything. They were primarily curious, probably looking for blood. Sorry I disappointed them. ;-) Point is, if you fly in enough rain you will eventually ingest enough water to kill the engine or reduce power output enough to prevent further powered flight. It takes a lot of water to do that, normally. Do not recommend taking off in the next thunderstorm to test my info. I do not fly in rain intentionally unless I know for sure it is very light and I can see through the shower to clear air on the other side. john h (watching the rain drops fall, all day at hauck's holler, alabama) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS JUST PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS BRAIN SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. CAPT. DR CHAMPION RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Subject: Mk II performance
Date: Jan 09, 2000
David, You are probably paying a relatively high price for the small diameter (60") 3-blade propeller ... esp with a single carb. I don't know how you are estimating your climb, but it would be good to measure it as carefully as possible. An altimeter and stop watch work very well. But whatever your climb is now, it will be noticeably better with the 66" propeller that you really should be using. A 66" 2-blade fixed pitch wood, a 2-blade 66" Ivo, Warp ... or GSC will all do better that your present set-up. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Bruner Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mk II performance New thread - for all Mk II owners: My Mk II is about 340lbs empty, with a 503 Single Carb & Single CDI, brand new GSC 3-blade 60" pitched to 6200 static. With 2 people and fuel - up to max 750lbs - it just doesn't seem to climb too well. Even on cool days (30-40) it only gets about 200-300 fpm on climb out (estimated). I'd like to ask you other mk II owners' performance figures/engine combinations are. TIA, db ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
EXCUSE ME, but how long have you been on the list? Do you even know what you're talking about? I'll bet you'd have told Charles A Lindbergh the same thing! IMHO you're an a**hole, Capt. Dr. Champion. Now kindly get lost! sincerely, Geoff Thistlethwaite -----Original Message----- From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > >YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T >TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL >PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY >BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I >HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE >DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW >BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR >BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS JUST >PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS BRAIN >SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE >HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT >HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > >CAPT. DR CHAMPION >RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT >CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
I "MAY" have popped off too quickly on this....kinda knee jerk reaction sorry if I offended anyone... Geoff"somtime speak before thinking"Thistlethwaite -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > >EXCUSE ME, but how long have you been on the list? >Do you even know what you're talking about? >I'll bet you'd have told Charles A Lindbergh the same thing! >IMHO you're an a**hole, Capt. Dr. Champion. Now kindly get lost! >sincerely, >Geoff Thistlethwaite > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:36 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > >> >>YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU >DON'T >>TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL >>PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY >FACTORY >>BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I >>HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE >>DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW >>BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR >>BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS >JUST >>PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS >BRAIN >>SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I >HAVE >>HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO >MIGHT >>HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. >> >>CAPT. DR CHAMPION >>RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT >>CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
I think he is joking. If he was serious he would have used his real name. People are always doing bits like this to pull our legs. Usually it is alcohol related. Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
In a message dated 01/09/2000 6:42:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, AV8TURDON(at)aol.com writes: << YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. >> Oh boy! I can hardly wait to hear the responses to this jerk. Let him have it! Bill Varnes Original FireStar 377 Audubon NJ USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Please use the shift key!!! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > >YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T >TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL >PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY >BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I >HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE >DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW >BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR >BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS JUST >PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS BRAIN >SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE >HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT >HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > >CAPT. DR CHAMPION >RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT >CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Me Too: But I meant every word. I have to be honest. Firehawk :-)) Pease don't archive > >I "MAY" have popped off too quickly on this....kinda knee jerk reaction >sorry if I offended anyone... >Geoff"somtime speak before thinking"Thistlethwaite > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Geoff Thistlethwaite <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net> >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com ; AV8TURDON(at)aol.com > >Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:51 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > > > > > >EXCUSE ME, but how long have you been on the list? > >Do you even know what you're talking about? > >I'll bet you'd have told Charles A Lindbergh the same thing! > >IMHO you're an a**hole, Capt. Dr. Champion. Now kindly get lost! > >sincerely, > >Geoff Thistlethwaite > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:36 PM > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > > > > >> > >>YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU > >DON'T > >>TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL > >>PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY > >FACTORY > >>BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) >I > >>HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE > >>DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND >KNOW > >>BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR > >>BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS > >JUST > >>PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS > >BRAIN > >>SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I > >HAVE > >>HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO > >MIGHT > >>HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > >> > >>CAPT. DR CHAMPION > >>RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > >>CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Man you have one of these guys on the kolb list too?? Over on the Powered parachute list Onelist.com, We also have a 19,000 ATP named Clyde. He has turned completely around and can't wait to get out of his DC10 to fly his PPC. And now he is entering our competitions and winning some of them. See you can teach an old dog new tricks. Hey Captain, When you loose your medical probably next year I will build you a ultralight so you can still fly with us. Our Best Tim T. ----- Original Message ----- From: <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T > TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL > PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY > BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I > HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE > DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW > BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR > BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS JUST > PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS BRAIN > SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE > HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT > HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > > CAPT. DR CHAMPION > RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard Ping" <hping(at)hyperaction.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
John I too started out to alaska from London on the first of July and went through Lethbridge,Dawson Ck. and past North Pole, Alaska. I guess the biggest difference I was on a Motorcycle. This summer, I will be at TNK to wish you good luck and to see you pull the stick back. Howard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
I too am a retired airline pilot and I have much respect for John Hauk and his flying. It is considered in poor taste to send e-mail material in all caps. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
I guess the biggest difference > I was on a Motorcycle. This summer, > I will be at TNK to wish you good luck and to see you pull the stick > back. > Howard Howard and Kolbers: No, the biggest difference is I didn't get muddy, and did not have the courage to do it on a bike. Thanks Howard. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 09, 2000
---------- > From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 3:33 PM > > > YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T > TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. Jeez, I hate it when people shout at us. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Mk II performance
> >New thread - for all Mk II owners: >My Mk II is about 340lbs empty, with a 503 Single Carb & Single CDI, brand >new GSC 3-blade 60" pitched to 6200 static. With 2 people and fuel - up to >max 750lbs - it just doesn't seem to climb too well. Even on cool days >(30-40) it only gets about 200-300 fpm on climb out (estimated). > >I'd like to ask you other mk II owners' performance figures/engine >combinations are. > >TIA, > db I think this may fall in the "more is not better" catagory. It is harder to turn 3 blades than 2. Could you find a 2 blade prop and go to the maximum dia possible? This may help. Do you have a good cruise speed once up to altitude. Only time I could only make 300 fpm I had a 300 pounder beside me. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: wire size to 912 starter
can anyone on the list help me with the correct size wire to go to the starting motor on the 912. the installation manual states wire size of 16@ which is metric, the charts i have seen only support steady state circuits, not circuits of short duration. tnx boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: wire size to 912 starter
I would suggest at least 10 gauge wires for the battery leads. I am not sure if it is approved but what is commonly refered to as Monster Cable is a very flexible multistrand grade. There are generic types available at any auto stereo installation shop. You should properly solder or crimp terminals so your resistance is low. Just my opinion Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 10, 2000
>CAPT. DR CHAMPION >RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT >CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. To try to assess a pilots skills based on reading his e-mail is not possible. For you to infer that you can shows you are not competent to retain your position as an FAA Safety Counselor. If you believe that it is not possible for anyone with determination to build an aircraft and fly it on a flight like JH is planning then you are not only technically ignorant but a coward as well. JH has already safely completed most of the flight that he is now planning to finish. He has already proven that your statements are wrong. Your small vision for the future will not slow any of us with courage and determination down. In short you make me very glad to be a part of this group and not a part of yours. Topher Project Engineer Powersport Aviation ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
From: Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
If this dork was really an airline pilot, we should all thank the good Lord that he-she is retired! I think "8-TURD" is pullin our leg. He cant even compose one whole uninterrupted sentance. And as for the Redneck remark, I would like him to say that to my face. Im proud to be a redneck, and Id be right proud to take MR. "Ive done it all" 2 gazillion hour, CPA,CIA,DNA,LPS,FBI,ATP,CFIII,BS`R, out behind the woodshed and beat him like a red-headed stepchild (any redheaded stepchildren out there-disregard the last). This guy smoked his lunch. Sure did wake you lurkers up tho! HAH! Mike "the Redneck" Brown GRRRRR AV8TURDON(at)aol.com wrote: > > > YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T > TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL > PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY FACTORY > BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I > HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE > DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW > BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR > BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS JUST > PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS BRAIN > SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE > HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT > HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > > CAPT. DR CHAMPION > RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 10, 2000
The noise is in direct proportion to the brain size. Ties right in with the IQ of a committee. ( Take the lowest IQ present, and divide it by the number of members.) Good to hear from you Larry, how was the fly-in ?? Big Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry & Karen Cottrel <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > > ---------- > > From: AV8TURDON(at)aol.com > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 3:33 PM > > > > > > YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU > DON'T > > TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. > > > Jeez, > I hate it when people shout at us. > Larry > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00
Tim T99 wrote: > > > Gil, > > I have the finishing kit from kolb and will be using polyspray or the > chemical uv > blocker. I need to stay under 496 lbs. so will the chemical additive work > ok. > My plane will be stored in an enclosed trailer when not in use. > How good of a job does the additive do? > > Tim T. If one is REALLY REALLY interested in saving all weight possible, I would recommend using one coat of PolySpray and using the UV blocker at recommended strengths in the PolyTone. This should then be adequate if one uses reason in the amount of time aircraft is exposed to sunlight. I have not seen actual data, but would be reluctant to TOTALLY depend on UV blockers for protection (no silver). As I best recall, there is a discussion of this in the PolyFiber manual. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCowan1917(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Subject: Re: us stupids
Okay, my two cents. I dont want to offend anyone but you all should take this man's opinion in stride. How many of you have had people tell you you were nuts, crazy or suicidal? That remark about scooters from Hawks was cool. I was told how crazy I was when I took my BMW 750 out west from Michigan the first time. People said these things were made for around the park, not galavating all over the country-side. I did the West Coast thing three times, twice solo. I want you to know that requires a great deal of courage, planning and you gotta be a little nuts. Boredom is the biggest thing. Hawk knows that. You have to like your own company and like Hawk told me, two people cannot agree to anything very long. As far a us ultraliters, I guess we are crazy to fly these things but we are not suicidal. These big-jet-jocks dont really understand what it is we do and why. They sit back with their auto pilot on and say, wow, that is another hundred hours I have flown. I would love to have him beside me on a little hundred miler we occasionally go on. It would terrify him. Can you imagine the thoughts and terror involved in the first channel crossing in England? Those planes did maybe ten miles an hour and they did not even havea good tape to hold them together. Our people have invested time and thought into our game and now the industry is evolving (sic) into a pretty organized, well manered group. These imaginative people have presented us with the solutions to countless problems. The safety factor with the materials and training have gone on to surpass the safety records of the "spam cans". To condemn us all because one faction feels we are committing suicide, is not rational. People like Hawk share their experiences and feelings with us because our world needs the professionals and people to look up to. Without them, we would still be flying rag and tubes and not go farther than around the block. I really am saying that the old adadge, put your money where your mouth is or my favorite "Lead, Follow, or get the Hell out of the Way" is the bet you can do. If you have not tried it, dont knock it. Enough. Some people just deserve to think again what their mouth has done. You go Hawk. Take the rest of us with you in spirit. If we should die doing this, so be it, it will be with a smile on our face. By the way, been riding motorcycles most of my life and I think they are dangerous. G'day Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: "Johann G. Johannsson" <johann.g(at)centrum.is>
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
Hi Vic and list members. I just like to give you some information on how I with little flying experience, learned to fly my Firestar. My few lessons started with 2 hrs in a Challenger II, back in 1994. This was my first time ever in an ultralight. At that time I had started building my first Firestar II. I knew what kind of an aircraft I wanted to own and fly, but I have to admit that this first time experience in an ultralight scared me a little. I assume it did with most of us. Only after a few minutes and the first landing (trainer landed) I was hooked. This was the greatest fun of flying ever, for me. The airfield was Bob Lee's grass strip airport in Florida. My next training was in 1996 on a Drifter at Herlong airport in Jax. Fla.I had 5 hours of training in this plane. This was the best training for me, because I was close to completion of my second Firestar II.These were mostly take-offs and landings. I never got to fly the first Firestar I built, except for one forced landing after a crow attempt. That is a another story, told before on the list. The trainer here was Gary Lapierre, and his landing method was to come in high approx. 500 feet, and chop the power and dive to the landing spot, keep a constant speed of 65 to 70 Mph. and then level off at approx. 5-10 feet and let the plane flow in ground effect, until speed bled of. It was a safe method, but later I changed the method to come in at 3500 rpm and 50 Mph, then chop power at 5-10 feet and let the speed bleed of. I am still at the initial stage of flying eperiance, so until I get more experience, I will do what gets me safe on the ground all the time. Later I will try the three point landing method and full stall. My advice as a beginner in flying the Firestar is. Start with no wind. Just get off the ground with full power and the tail wheel off the ground as soon as possible. Hold it on the ground until 50 Mph, and then climb to a safe altitude, but stay close to the field for emergency landings, and get to feel the plane for as long as you need. Then do a few low passes to the landing spot, but be careful when you increase throttle again for the climb out. The thrust line is high, so you will get a nose down pitch when increasing the throttle. When coming in for the landing, just fly the plane to the ground with 3-3500 rpm and 50 Mph speed all the way down to ground effect or 5-10 feet and then level off and cut power. No need to flare. It will just sit down on its own. Hope this will help you in your first flight in this great flying machine. Sorry for a long letter. Best regards from Iceland. Johann G. Firestar II 50 hrs. Vic Worthington wrote: > > Thanks to Will I received a couple of potential leads for dual instruction. > > I originally limited the search to west of the Mississippi River but have > decided to expand the > search area to include the whole US. I really don't like the idea of > jumping in and flying with out some > dual time in something that flies like the Firestar. > > For those of you flying a Firestar, what did you take your instruction in > and how was the > transition to the Firestar. > > Vic > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Woody, Why deviate from the plans at all? How did you get a 1 inch fabric to fabric cement area with the hinges in the way? chris -----Original Message----- From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: When to Cover > > >>> > <<<<<<remove the >>> > pins and cover everything being careful around the hinges? >> >> > > That is the way we did it. Installed every thing, pulled the hinge wires >and then covered. We deviated from the plans a bit and cut small slits in >the fabric and placed the slits over the tabs of the hinges. Looks good with >just the tabs sticking out of the fabric. Of course if the hinge ever wears >out it will be harder to repair but how often do the hinges wear out and by >then it should be ready for recover anyway. > > Woody > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 22,000uF capacitor
>> My electronics friends tell me that a 22,000 uf/25 volt capacitor is huge. >> I ended up using a 2,200uf/25 volt capacitor. >> I have absolutely no alternator hum in my radio. >The capacitor is not for eliminating hum in your radio, but to protect its >input circuits from too big differences of voltage. I presume we're talking about the capacitor shown on Rotax wiring diagrams. It's connected directly across the output of the alternator's rectifier/regulator assembly. The unlike the automotive 3-phase systems, output of the Rotax alternator is from a single phase winding and is MUCH noisier. The capcitor is intended to reduce the noise by providing some electrical inertia between the widely spaced pulses of energy from the alternator's rectifier. >It's a kind of voltage regulation, and it also helps the output >transistor of your regulator to work not too far from the same voltage. >If you switch all your gadgets on (radio, landing lights, strobe, etc) with >a 22,000uF capacitor, you will be surprised to see - with a scope - how >far from flat is the bus voltage. Not a quantified statement. 3-phase alterntors have a peak-peak ripple on the order of 5% of the dc output rating. E.g. a 14 volt system has about 700 mV peak to peak. A single phase alternator's ripple is 100% of output, E.g, with no filtering provided by either battery or a capacitor, the ripple from a 14v output machine is 14v pk-pk. There are thousands of airplanes flying single-phase alternators with NO capacitor using only the battery for smoothing and getting satisfactory results. Some PM alternators will run with NO battery on line IF you include the capacitor in the system . . . don't know if the Rotax system operates this way. >Remind your electronic friends that the more amps they draw the bigger the >capacitor should be. The general rull of thumb for 60 Hz power supplies is 1,000 uFd per amp of power supply capacity. Applying the same rule to the 18A Rotax alternator puts the 22,000 uFd device right in the ballpark. >Also put in series with this capacitor a 12V - 20W bulb : if the capacitor >goes short, you will protect your regulator, keep your 12V power, and also >immediately know it. At power on, when the cap is discharged, the bulb will >shortly illuminate : you know the capacitor is OK. NOT a good idea. The capacitor does it's job by looking as if it were a dead short to the AC voltages on the system. ANY device connected in series with the capacitor raises it's equivalent series resistance value and degrades it's ability to do the job. A 10A fuse is a good idea . . . capacitors rarely short but it's not impossible. Better to open a fuse that blow the end out of the capacitor . . . they stink and are really messy. >Electrolytic capacitors are fragile, the best place for them is not under >a cowl, with heat and vibrations, so I think a bulb is a good protection. >It's better than a fuse because it shows you immediately if the capacitor >is OK or not. Capacitors rated for operation at 85 degrees C are standard. Further, they don't have to be big either. A 33,000 uFd, 16 volt device can be had with an envelope of 1.4" diameter and 2.13" long. You want a computer grade device with 10-32 screw terminals. These have the lowest internal resistance and are most suited for attaching the fat wires used to wire the alternator system. If there's enough interest in this part, I'll add them to our inventory and website catalog. They'll cost about $15.00 each. Bob . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: cooling the rotax 503
Might be worth a try. A lot of the early ultralights used Zenoah 250 engines in pusher configurations, and none of them had any cooling arrangements, they just hung out in the free air. Back when I had the Hummer, I had a recoil starter spring break in the Rotax 277, the recoil pulley began to unwind internally, and the cable got out to where it knocked a bunch of fins off the cooling fan. Vibrated like mad, but ran OK. Landed at a convenient airport, took off the cooling shroud, fan, etc, crunk it back up and took off. Climbed right up over the runway to see how hot it would get, but it stayed below 350. (That was always a cool running engine anyway) Flew home with no problems. I figured that since the guys with the Zenoah 250's on their Hummers could do it, maybe I could too. I think you have a good idea. I bet the engine would also be quieter with out the whistle of the cooling fan. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > >I would think free flow to the cooling fan and out the >top of the engine are both critical. Either physical >blockage, such as the firewall, or cowling pressure >direction problems must be accounted for. Whoops, I >just read Richard Pike's msg on this ...sounds like >he's nailed it for you. My side interest in this is >that I've always thought it might be possible to put a >scoop even on a pusher 447 or 503, so long as there >was also some ducting back to the prop to draw the >cooling air back. Goal here may seem cheesy, that is, >wondering if a light molded scoop and backside ducting >could take the place of the weight and power draw of >the standard cooling fan, bearings, belt, etc. If it >could be proven to work, even sawing off some of the >cast part of the engine that supports the cooling fan >area. Think this is all too far out? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: Mk II performance
Back before I bought my MKIII, I got to go for a ride in a MK II. It had a SCSI Rotax 503, and a 3 blade Warp Drive prop, I think either 62" or 64", but not sure. It was a bare bones airplane, climbed out very well with two 190 pounders, and maintained level flight at 5,000 RPM. Do not remember rate of climb, but it seemed very normal. At the time, I still had the Hummer, and it climbed at 500 FPM, and the J-6, and it climbed solo at 700 FPM. The MK II with the two of us "felt" to be about the same. My impression of the 503 on that airplane was that it was sufficient. I would go with Dennis' advice and try a 66" two blade adjustable prop, I think it will help a lot. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > >New thread - for all Mk II owners: >My Mk II is about 340lbs empty, with a 503 Single Carb & Single CDI, brand >new GSC 3-blade 60" pitched to 6200 static. With 2 people and fuel - up to >max 750lbs - it just doesn't seem to climb too well. Even on cool days >(30-40) it only gets about 200-300 fpm on climb out (estimated). > >I'd like to ask you other mk II owners' performance figures/engine >combinations are. > >TIA, > db > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Colors
Morning Bruce and Kolbers: Hope everybody is still here. I am. ;-) Let me see if I can satisfactorily answer your questions: I have better luck with Bassett Hounds and airplanes than I do with wives. After two attempts I have been single for going on 19 years. However, I do have a fine gal friend who supports my aviation habit, and has for the last 11 years. I use no support system as such. Already stated I have never used a ground support team on any flight. I go strictly solo, me and the airplane and what I can carry with me. Strap hangers, in the form of passengers, other aircraft, and a ground crew, would seriously slow me down. Not only would I have to do what I normally do solo, but I would also have to keep track of everybody else, and when I get miserable I do not want to have to listen to my copilot's complaints too. I can handle what I encounter by myself just fine. :-) I take a set of plugs, a little safety wire, tools, nylon tie wraps, electrical tape, assortment of nuts, washers, bolts, set of tie downs, things that I may drop and loose if I have to work on something. If I had to recover my airplane with a trailer, there is one available among my airplane buddies at home. I think I could send out an all points bulletin on the Kolb List and find a trailer most anywhere in the country, Canada, and Alaska. Most FBOs have flat beds with primary mission of recovering aircraft. I have a handheld King KX99 VHF mounted in the aircraft. Before that an STS, and before that I didn't have a radio in the Ultrastar. The VHF makes life easier and safer. It gives me the choice of going into controlled airfields, even those that require a mode c transponder that I am not equipped with. Controllers are not inhuman, most aren't anyhow. If I have a problem and need to land, I tell the controller and request permission to land. I landed my Firestar at Roanoke, Va, Regional Airport in 1989, with the tower's blessing, when I got myself caught VFR on top and the only hole I could find was directly over the airport. Told them what my problem was and they cleared me to land. Think that airport was Class C airspace. I use an old Garmin 55AVD GPS with North American Jeppesen Database. Bought it at Sun and Fun 93, and updated in 1997. Up until that time my navigation was mag compass and sectional. When I cross country I accept the fact that I can loss my airplane and I may get hurt or even worse. Once I accept those facts, I am ready to fly. My insurance to cover me on my flight north of the Brooks Range and up as far as Barrow, Alaska, cost over $1,800 in 1994. That would pay to haul my airplane out by helicopter if I went down away from the highway. In sparely populated areas of Canada and Alaska it pays to fly the highway, the recommended VFR route, clearly marked on the Sectionals. Well, there is only one to Alaska and one to Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay. Then from Dead Horse to Barrow is 205sm over tundra and water. That is a lot of miles to fly with no forced landing areas, even if we do not factor in the rapidly changing, unforgiving weather of the North Slope and the Polar Ice Cap. All long cross country flights are simply a series of short legs put together over a period of time. Learn to fly the short legs and you can safely fly anywhere, if you put your heart into it. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce E. Harrison" <beharrison(at)lexhealth.org>
Subject: UL Activity around Ft. Myers, Fla.
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Imagine you planning to move, just when I got the coordinates for Trenton/Edgefield County programmed into my Garmin GPS38. If you need someone to babysit your airplane while you make arrangements, I'm here for you. Bruce E. Harrison -----Original Message----- From: HShack(at)aol.com [mailto:HShack(at)aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 2:02 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL Activity around Ft. Myers, Fla. Am considering moving to Ft. Myers, Fla. and am seeking info about UL activity near there. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Flight To Barrow, Alaska
CAPT. Donald Richard Champagne RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. Dear Sir: I appreciate your post to the Kolb Builders List this evening reference my intended ultralight flight to Barrow, Alaska. I am humbled that a gentleman with your experience, expertise, and position in the Federal Government, would sincerely want to help me make my flight a success. Although you came on a little strong, well, I am used to that. I spent my 24 year Army career in Airborne Infantry, Special Forces, and Army Aviation units. I was always a member of the "elite" back then. "Toughness" and "intelligence" was our trademark. I hang out with the elite on the Kolb Builders List now. I didn't start flying civilian aircraft until 1984, and those were ultralights that I built. I finally got a private ticket in 1990, to fly the new two place ultralight I was building that would be registered experimental. You understand, I wanted to be absolutely legal. I picked up a few pointers going through Army Rotary Wing Flight Training in 1968, about flying helicopters and a few more the 12 months spent flying AH-1G Cobras with Co D, 101st Avn Bn, 101st Airborne Div out of Phu Bai, RVN, in 1969 and 1970. I got to fly some when I returned to the States, after RVN, then the Army put me out to pasture. You know, the reason I started building ultralights was so I could fly again. To me flying is flying, whether a little wide open ultralight or a fully IFR UH-1H, or an AH-1G, loaded to the gills to kill, with a VNE of 190 kts/221 mph. Heck, I like 'em all, even powered parachutes. Anything that flies has a place in the sky, as far as I am concerned. I am just a "grass roots" aviator. Started my flying career at the late age of 29, almost 32 years ago. I learned to fly TH-55 helicopters in Primary Flight Training which included many day and night cross country flights just like I make today, pilotage and DED reckoning, sectional and mag compass. BTW: VNE and cruise for the TH-55 for us students was 55 kts, same as the speed limit on US ultralights. I do have the luxury of a GPS that makes crosscountry flight in ultralights a lot safer, but only got it 6 years ago. As an FAA Safety Counselor I want to make sure that you do not go unrewarded for your personal concern for the safety of my friends and for myself. Please send me the email address of your boss so I can pass on my appreciation to him directly for your concern and help. Snail mail address will be ok, but would rather save the postage and envelope. ;-) Again, thanks for your professional assistance. JOHN R. HAUCK Major, Infantry US Army Aviator, Retired PS: I noticed under you Pilots Certification that you are listed as ATP and Flight Engineer, rated in single and multiengine land. Couldn't find anything reference CFI or FAA Safety Counselor. I also noticed your Class II medical expired April 1999. BTW: Congratulations on completion of your RV-6, N767DC. Have you flown it yet? If not, good luck on your test flight. It is a great feeling making the first flight in an airplane you built in the basement. I know, I have done it three times, not counting test flights for friends. Data base is not up to date on your RV6 either. Doesn't specify Airworthiness Certificate Type. Take a look at mine. This is the way it is supposed to look: N-number : N101AB Aircraft Serial Number : M3-011 Aircraft Manufacturer : HAUCK JOHN R Model : KOLB MK III Engine Manufacturer : BOMBADIER Model : ROTAX (ALL) Aircraft Year : 1991 Owner Name : HAUCK JOHN R Owner Address : 255 COOSA RD TITUS, AL, 36080 Registration Date : 12-Apr-1991 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : Amateur Built Don: Notice everything is current below: Name : HAUCK, JOHN ROSS Pilot's Address : 255 COOSA RD TITUS, AL, 36080-2532 Date of Medical : Apr, 1998 Class of Medical : 3 Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot Ratings : Single Engine Land FAA Region : Southern ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N51SK(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 01/09/00
List: It's obvious that an ATP does not necessarily a pilot make...(no offense to Bill and other ATPs on this list.) The only thing wrong with responding to this acid bath of a post is that we get to see it over and over. Steve Kroll ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net
by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id" <20000110182312.HMYH1891(at)webmail.worldnet.att.net>;
Subject: Re: Flight To Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 10, 2000
> > CAPT. Donald Richard Champagne > RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > Dear Sir: LOL > As an FAA Safety Counselor I want to make sure that you do > not go unrewarded for your personal concern for the safety > of my friends and for myself. Please send me the email > address of your boss so I can pass on my appreciation to him > directly for your concern and help. Snail mail address will > be ok, but would rather save the postage and envelope. ;-) LOL HARDER > Again, thanks for your professional assistance. > > JOHN R. HAUCK > Major, Infantry > US Army Aviator, Retired > > PS: I noticed ROTFLOL This is the way it is supposed to look: OW! YOUR KILLING ME! > Don: Notice everything is current below: > > Name : HAUCK, JOHN ROSS > Pilot's Address : 255 COOSA RD > TITUS, AL, 36080-2532 > Date of Medical : Apr, 1998 > Class of Medical : 3 > Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot > Ratings : Single Engine Land > FAA Region : Southern > WHEEWW, wiping tears from my eyes.... pretty damn good for a "redneck" Thanks John, I needed that! Hope I get to meet ya at Sun n Fun. If not, Good Flying on your trip! and keep posting!! Geoff Thistlethwaite ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Yates" <johny(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: prop balance
Date: Jan 10, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Randy <yamaha(at)cvn.net> Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 3:44 PM Subject: Kolb-List: prop balance On a wood prop yes. > >I bought the prop balancer from CPS, and balanced the prop tip to tip. The >next step they say is to balance the hub in the opposite direction to >achieve this I have to add a 3/8 by 1 7/8 long steel slug between two of the >mounting holes of the prop. Is this the proper way of doing this. thanks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: When to Cover
> >Woody, > >Why deviate from the plans at all? How did you get a 1 inch fabric to fabric >cement area with the hinges in the way? > >chris I deviated cause I think it looks better having the most of the piano hinge covered rather than hanging onto the trailing edge. I do not understand the last question or you did not understand my method. I wrapped the trailing edge like anyone else only I have these little tabs sticking out for the hinge wire. The fabric still wraps around the tube with more than an inch of overlap. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/06/00
> >Gil, > >I have the finishing kit from kolb and will be using polyspray or the >chemical uv >blocker. I need to stay under 496 lbs. so will the chemical additive work >ok. >My plane will be stored in an enclosed trailer when not in use. >How good of a job does the additive do? > >Tim T. > If it stored in a trailer how much UV will it be exposed to? I had a Vector covered in dacron painted with house paint. Sat outside for 8 years unprotected and when I scrapped the whole thing the fabric was still strong. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: What about me?
> >YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU DON'T >TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. HEY HOW COME I DIDN'T GET A REAL NASTY LETTER WHEN I SUGGESTED WE COULD TRANSITION OURSELVES IN KOLBS IF THERE WAS NO ONE AROUND TO HELP OUT. I WROTE THAT LETTER BEFORE JOHN DID SO I WANT AN EQUALLY DUMB LETTER FROM YOU. YOU CAN EVEN THROW A DUMB CANADIAN JOKE IN IF YOU WANT. WOODY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Lecki" <FlyingR(at)glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Are you kidding....those airline pilots are the worst students you can ever train how to fly for real....slow reactions to anything, no clue what rudder is...you name it....and the worst thing is they think they could fly....just ignore that jerk because that is nothing you can do about it....he won't change... Richard, Firestar II ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > Man you have one of these guys on the kolb list too?? > Over on the Powered parachute list Onelist.com, We also > have a 19,000 ATP named Clyde. He has turned completely around > and can't wait to get out of his DC10 to fly his PPC. And now he > is entering our competitions and winning some of them. > See you can teach an old dog new tricks. Hey Captain, When you loose your > medical probably next year I will build you a ultralight so you can still > fly with us. > > Our Best > > Tim T. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <AV8TURDON(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight to Barrow, Alaska > > > > > > YOUR GOING TO BECOME A STATISTIC IN THE NTSB ARCHIVES. I JUST HOPE YOU > DON'T > > TAKE ANYONE ELSE WITH YOU. GUYS LIKE YOU WHO REALLY THINK THEY ARE REAL > > PILOTS FLYING AIRPLANES THAT THEY BUILT AND THAT ARE BETTER THEN ANY > FACTORY > > BUILT PLANE HAVE AN EGO THAT WILL KILL HIM. (IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME) I > > HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HOMEBUILTS..I HAVE AN RV-6 THAT I BUILT. BUT THE > > DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I IS THAT I HAVE A 25000 HRS OF FLYING AND KNOW > > BETTER THAN TAKE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH ME AND SUBJECT THEM TO YOUR HAIR > > BRAINED IDEA OF ALASKAN FLYING. DON'T BELIEVE IN FILING VFR WITH THE FSS > JUST > > PLANE STUPIDITY. BUT AGREES IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH THE CANADIANS. NEEDS > BRAIN > > SURGERY. I HEARD YOU RED NECKS WERE STUPID BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I > HAVE > > HAD A CHANCE TO WITNESS IT FIRST HAND. i JUST HOPE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO > MIGHT > > HAVE INCLINATION OF GOING WITH YOU WILL THINK TWICE AFTER THIS. > > > > CAPT. DR CHAMPION > > RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > > CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
In a message dated 1/10/00 2:01:25 PM, FlyingR(at)glasscity.net writes: << Are you kidding....those airline pilots are the worst students you can ever train how to fly for real....slow reactions to anything, no clue what rudder is...you name it....and the worst thing is they think they could fly. >> Ta ta ta ta Richard. Be careful about generalizing; particularly from a small sample. I spent a great portion of a long career instructing pilots; light planes to jets. Here's some insight. I have had students with a GA background that were so god in transitioning to jets that it watered my eyes. I have also had GA students that, to be kind, weren't so good. But-- the same was true for ex military and airline types. Some fantastic and some not so good and many average in performance. When all was said and done I found NO correlation between background and potential for learning to fly a fast, complex airplane. BTW, rudder can be a very necessary control in a jet. BTW, after not flying even a light plane for many years I managed to transition myself from the jet to the Mk-3. No bent landing gear, no nuthin. I wouldn't recommend it but it was the only way it could practically be accomplished. So, lets not let "Captain America" get us in a pissing contest over things we all agree on. Like, how great our planes are, the true fun of flying and the camaraderie we enjoy. Best regards, Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolbs for sale
Date: Jan 10, 2000
I have a friend interested in getting a Kolb . He is a capable builder but is considering buying used if the chance presented itself. Any aircraft known to be for sale , let me know off list , and thanks in advance. Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com P.S. ANY KOLB is a possible go with him....(Firefly to M3 , don't matter...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Subject: Re: prop balance
The proper way is to have CPS make you a new one.My Tennessee was out side to side almost 2 ounces. I sent it back, they (REWORKED) it. Its balanced but it lost 20% or better of its low end bite and will run nearly red line on climb out if I don't pull the throttle back. It won't load the engine so my cyl head temps just break 200. Ask them to try again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
> What's the N number jackass? > > chuck "likes to play with obvious trolls" cullen Chuck and Kolbers: The N number was in the email I sent to the List and to Don Champagne this morning. Let's take it easy. john h If you feel like retaliating, starting a flame war, or what ever, maybe you need to do it bc and not on the List. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
Interesting tidbits from you folks saying the fan ain't needed. I guess Rotax puts them on to protect from the average flier who isn't trying to optimize every last ounce of weight and performance. But it looks to me like very worthwhile gains are to be had. I think there is a free lunch here, not from bending the rules of physics, but geez, just consider the drag on the standard un-cowled Rotax perched on top of an ultralight. In addition there is the totally non-aerodynamic cooling air entry and exit on our glorified snow-mobile engines. I see the potential to cut the total engine drag by at least 1/2, stay about equal in cooling drag, get the 5 HP fan power back to the big fan that makes us GO, and net a 5 lbs total weight savings. And just to tease this a little further, in my mind, finding 3 places to save 5 lbs, and it is not out of the question to bring a 447 FS over to the FAR 103 scale and say neener neener to my not-so-favorite airport manager (and then take off at 1400 fpm). Now if I could just get that plane back in flying shape to play with that idea. -Ben Ransom > the temps within limits. Even after landing and taxi > the temps were > only about 50 deg higher than normal. > > > Goal here may seem cheesy, that is, > > wondering if a light molded scoop and backside > ducting > > could take the place of the weight and power draw > of > > the standard cooling fan, bearings, belt, etc. If > it > > could be proven to work, even sawing off some of > the > > cast part of the engine that supports the cooling > fan > > area. Think this is all too far out? > > There's no free lunch since the scoop drag will > offset any power > gains. I ran some figures on my fan and concluded > that it drew > about 6 hp at full chat and 4.7 at cruise. It > doesn't take much > surface area to equal that hp amount. > > > J.Baker > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: most visible color
On the subject of most visible color i have flown radio controlled airplanes for years and the easiest color to see (for me) in just about all types of background is bright yellow, it reflects most all of the light and still stands out against clouds and snow mountains boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Re: most visible color
Date: Jan 10, 2000
Man I will agree to that. Most of my RC's are yellow also. Tim T. ----- Original Message ----- From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 11:27 PM Subject: Kolb-List: most visible color > > On the subject of most visible color > i have flown radio controlled airplanes for years and the > easiest color to see (for me) in just about all types of > background is bright yellow, it reflects most all of the > light and still stands out against clouds and snow mountains > > boyd > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2000
From: Bill Redfield <redfield(at)bitstorm.net>
Subject: Re: Kolbs for sale
I Have a Fire Fly with about 35 hrs. on a Rotex 447 Engine, and airframe. I have a heart problem that docter says will not get any better is reason for considering selling. It is based at Bob Lee airport in Deland Florida. Housed in a enclosed trailer [single axle]. Has a ramp door which makes it very easy to take out and put back in. Firefly and trailer $15,000.00. Made from a quick build kit, steel parts are powder coated. Fire star wheels and heel brakes, full enclosure, EIS engine monitoring system. Never damaged. Flys nearly hands off. If interested my name and address are: William c. Redfield 166 Leisure World Dr. N. Debary Florida 32713. Phone 407-668-6694 E-Mail redfield(at)bitstorm.net Jeremy Casey wrote: > > I have a friend interested in getting a Kolb . He is a capable builder but > is considering buying used if the chance presented itself. Any aircraft > known to be for sale , let me know off list , and thanks in advance. > > Jeremy Casey > jrcasey(at)mindspring.com > > P.S. ANY KOLB is a possible go with him....(Firefly to M3 , don't > matter...) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "youngblood" <barry(at)hcis.net>
Subject: Re: ST. Elmo EAA 1209 Fly-In
Date: Jan 11, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: AV8REXP(at)aol.com <AV8REXP(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:27 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: ST. Elmo EAA 1209 Fly-In > >Jay Stevens from ST. Elmo, > What state might this be in? Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rod Vacura" <rod.vacura(at)pemstar.com>
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
John H. and others, What an awesome adventure flying to Alaska in a Kolb. Captian Americas concern for your safety has brought a good question to my mind. Do you use a BRS type recovery system in your mk3 or would you rather use that amount of gross weight for other stuff like supplies and survival gear. I would think that flying over hostile terrain, a BRS would be a nice option to use if needed. Maybe if you had to land in some trees, it could slow down your crash speed? List memebers, what is the general opinion about ballistic recovery systems? Is it a "Dont leave home without it" thing or is it "I would rather have a lower gross weight and dont think I need one". Also, what do you guys fear would be the #1 reason that you might need to use a BRS. "Engine out over a forrest?", "Structual failure like a wing strut bolt falling out?" Is there anybody on the list that has had to use a BRS? I would love to here your storie. I'm sure this has been hashed over before but since I'm a new guy, would you please be kind enough to offer some fresh opinions. Thanks in advance. Rod Vacura ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dama Riddick <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
Date: Jan 11, 2000
My biggest argument for a BRS is propeller related. I think the Kolb airframe is sound enough. To fly with power you must spin something fast and one of my greatest concerns is failure of the prop causing damage to the boom tube or ailerons. Muffler springs, loose carbs., gap seals or something coming from the pilot's jacket may upset a reliable yet uncertified prop. Other than that, a bad preflight may be cause for BRS usage. Kip Laurie N111KX FS-705 Atlanta -----Original Message----- From: Rod Vacura [SMTP:rod.vacura(at)pemstar.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 8:55 AM Subject: Kolb-List: BRS over Barrow, Alaska? John H. and others, What an awesome adventure flying to Alaska in a Kolb. Captian Americas concern for your safety has brought a good question to my mind. Do you use a BRS type recovery system in your mk3 or would you rather use that amount of gross weight for other stuff like supplies and survival gear. I would think that flying over hostile terrain, a BRS would be a nice option to use if needed. Maybe if you had to land in some trees, it could slow down your crash speed? List memebers, what is the general opinion about ballistic recovery systems? Is it a "Dont leave home without it" thing or is it "I would rather have a lower gross weight and dont think I need one". Also, what do you guys fear would be the #1 reason that you might need to use a BRS. "Engine out over a forrest?", "Structual failure like a wing strut bolt falling out?" Is there anybody on the list that has had to use a BRS? I would love to here your storie. I'm sure this has been hashed over before but since I'm a new guy, would you please be kind enough to offer some fresh opinions. Thanks in advance. Rod Vacura ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce E. Harrison" <beharrison(at)lexhealth.org>
Subject: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
Date: Jan 11, 2000
I can only respond for myself: I would gladly accept the relatively small weight and drag penalty of a BRS canister on the boom or in front of the engine in exchange for the peace of mind gained. The fact that I flew 150 hours in a Firestar without one was simply due to the extra cost. If a Kolb FS kit costs approximately $10,000 and a BRS costs $1500-2500, you do the math. A BRS becomes a significant investment %-wise. It is insurance. Expensive insurance, but not to the few who've had to use one. The BRS website keeps statistics and descriptions of real life incidents. It makes very interesting reading. On your second question, I never worried about a structural failure on my Kolb. If you've ever assembled a Kolb at the field and preflighted it, just think about how many pieces and parts you check for tightness, locknuts, safety clips in the wing pins, lift struts, etc. There is a very real potential to forget something, get distracted by something else, be in too much of a hurry, etc. Just ask yourself: How many of us have put a cup of our favorite beverage on top of the car, opened the door, jumped in, started up and been halfway down the street before wondering where "that drink" got to? A BRS is protection against that kind of thing, as well as the remote possibility of a nut coming off a bolt due to vibration, a safety clip not being clipped all the way, and so on. I use a checklist, and like Santa I check it twice. No incidents in 150 hrs., but one time I took off, got halfway through the pattern when I smelled gasoline fumes. This was definitely not normal, so I looked over my shoulder at the tank and realized I hadn't put the gas cap back on. Some fuel had sloshed out of the 5 gal. tank (which I had squeezed 5.5 gal. into) and was merrily evaporating. The gas cap had fallen down into the cage, fortunately, and had not tried to go through the prop. I don't remember if I was in a hurry, or whether friends were there videotaping my flight, or what--but I sure enough forgot an important detail. If you can possibly afford it--get the BRS. The regulations make an allowance for the extra weight and it is well worth it. Work is slow and I'm long-winded today. Bruce E. Harrison < Do you use a BRS type recovery system in your mk3 or would you rather use that amount of gross weight for other stuff like supplies and survival gear. List memebers, what is the general opinion about ballistic recovery systems? Is it a "Dont leave home without it" thing or is it "I would rather have a lower gross weight and dont think I need one". Also, what do you guys fear would be the #1 reason that you might need to use a BRS. "Engine out over a forrest?", "Structual failure like a wing strut bolt falling out?"> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brain Kim Steiner" <steiner(at)spreda.sk.ca>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Just one thing to consider before removing a fan, I have a 582 that requires constant airflow over its rads to keep it cool. This becomes a problem when I taxi for extended periods as in going downwind on a runway before turning around and taking off. If your runway is close to your start out point you should not have a problem. A friend of mine has a fan cooled 447 on a firestar and has no heating problems with extended ground movements, I wish I could say the same about my Mark 111 with a 582. Kim Stener Saskatchewan, Canada PS I have found a number of offensive postings this last week. Threats of taking someone out back and beating the crap out of them is just a bad as some of the original posts that started this flame war. Lets get back to some useful information on this list. Someone wondered about how many have left this list over the flame war, I was almost one of them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ransom" <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: rotax 503 > > Interesting tidbits from you folks saying the fan > ain't needed. I guess Rotax puts them on to protect > from the average flier who isn't trying to optimize > every last ounce of weight and performance. But it > looks to me like very worthwhile gains are to be had. > I think there is a free lunch here, not from bending > the rules of physics, but geez, just consider the drag > on the standard un-cowled Rotax perched on top of an > ultralight. In addition there is the totally > non-aerodynamic cooling air entry and exit on our > glorified snow-mobile engines. I see the potential to > cut the total engine drag by at least 1/2, stay about > equal in cooling drag, get the 5 HP fan power back to > the big fan that makes us GO, and net a 5 lbs total > weight savings. And just to tease this a little > further, in my mind, finding 3 places to save 5 lbs, > and it is not out of the question to bring a 447 FS > over to the FAR 103 scale and say neener neener to my > not-so-favorite airport manager (and then take off at > 1400 fpm). > > Now if I could just get that plane back in flying > shape to play with that idea. > -Ben Ransom > > > the temps within limits. Even after landing and taxi > > the temps were > > only about 50 deg higher than normal. > > > > > Goal here may seem cheesy, that is, > > > wondering if a light molded scoop and backside > > ducting > > > could take the place of the weight and power draw > > of > > > the standard cooling fan, bearings, belt, etc. If > > it > > > could be proven to work, even sawing off some of > > the > > > cast part of the engine that supports the cooling > > fan > > > area. Think this is all too far out? > > > > There's no free lunch since the scoop drag will > > offset any power > > gains. I ran some figures on my fan and concluded > > that it drew > > about 6 hp at full chat and 4.7 at cruise. It > > doesn't take much > > surface area to equal that hp amount. > > > > > > J.Baker > > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
Rod and Kolbers: Yes, I use a ballistic parachute, a Second Chantz in the center section, designed by myself and John Dunham in 1990. I built a mockup center section for the MK III, sent it out to John for him to fabricate a parachute pack try to fit into the airfoil shaped space that was not being used for anything else. John sponsored me with the parachute which in turn sold over 300 parachutes for him. My Brother Jim and I were just now chatting on icq about my parachute. We need to shake it out, inspect for uv damage, and repack. We believe the dual primed firing system for the solid fuel rocket and the rocket fuel are still serviceable. Using the parachute in event of power out over very hostile terrain is an option. Those trees out on the west coast are a little taller than what we have in the SE. I am a firm believer in parachutes. All my assignments in the Army were Airborne, except when I was flying helicopters. Parachutes work and I know that. They save lives. They are insurance. If you do not have one installed when you need it, you ain't got no insurance. Your choice. Anything mechanical has the possibility for failure, samo samo pilots make mistakes. Am not worried about wing coming off my plane. I have two documented saves with the same Jim Handbury hand deployed parachute, 1985 and 1990. When I get some time and get in the mood I will share those two events with the List. I carry two Catapillar Club Cards in my wallet presented to me by Switlik Parachute Company for the two parachute saves in an emergency from an aircraft in flight. Like I said earlier, I believe in parachutes, they save lives. And I can break about anything, especially airplanes. hehehehe john h (Still here because of a $500.00 parachute used twice. That's $250.00 a save. Cheap insurance.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Sharp" <mlsharp_1(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flight To Barrow, Alaska
Date: Jan 11, 2000
You Go John!!!! At least on this trip you won't be shot at! Unlike the trips you made with SOG HUH???? Keep the pointy end forward and the shiny side up... mike >From: "geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net >(InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id" ><20000110182312.HMYH1891(at)webmail.worldnet.att.net>; >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight To Barrow, Alaska >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:23:11 +0000 > >mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id ><20000110182312.HMYH1891(at)webmail.worldnet.att.net>; > > > > > > CAPT. Donald Richard Champagne > > RETIRED AIRLINE PILOT > > CFI.ATP.FAA SAFETY COUNSELOR. > > > > Dear Sir: > >LOL > > > As an FAA Safety Counselor I want to make sure that you do > > not go unrewarded for your personal concern for the safety > > of my friends and for myself. Please send me the email > > address of your boss so I can pass on my appreciation to him > > directly for your concern and help. Snail mail address will > > be ok, but would rather save the postage and envelope. ;-) > >LOL HARDER > > > Again, thanks for your professional assistance. > > > > JOHN R. HAUCK > > Major, Infantry > > US Army Aviator, Retired > > > > PS: I noticed > >ROTFLOL > >This is the way it is supposed to look: > >OW! YOUR KILLING ME! > > > Don: Notice everything is current below: > > > > Name : HAUCK, JOHN ROSS > > Pilot's Address : 255 COOSA RD > > TITUS, AL, 36080-2532 > > Date of Medical : Apr, 1998 > > Class of Medical : 3 > > Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot > > Ratings : Single Engine Land > > FAA Region : Southern > > >WHEEWW, wiping tears from my eyes.... >pretty damn good for a "redneck" > >Thanks John, I needed that! > >Hope I get to meet ya at Sun n Fun. If not, Good Flying on your trip! >and keep posting!! >Geoff Thistlethwaite > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: BRS pros and con
From: Ralph H Burlingame <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Hi Rod and others, I have never had a BRS on my FireStar in the 13 years flying it. There are arguments pro and con with the use of one. I have friends that work for BRS so I won't say anything negative about the product. I think it's a great idea and I didn't get one for this reason: I stored the plane in my garage where my kids had access and feared something happening to them. After flying all these years without one, I believe the only way I could lose control would be if I became incapacitated and couldn't get down safely or if I left out one of the pins or safety rings upon setup. After thinking about both of these situations, I figured the risk is low and chose not to get one. There are a couple of situations that I have heard about that have bothered me. One of them was the test pilot/engineer on the Cumulus project that deployed a BRS prior to the crash that killed him. If there was one guy that a BRS should have saved, this would be it because BRS (the company) was in close contact with this project. There have been a couple of situations where the BRS bridle cable came loose and became tangled in the prop without deploying. One them was in a Kolb which caused the engine to rip from its mounts. The BRS was not at fault but the cable ties holding the bridle in place had deteriorated due to UV exposure. The only incident that I can recall where a BRS was deployed and saved the pilot, in this area, was a hang glider whose support cable was worn where it couldn't be easily inspected. The cable broke, he deployed the BRS and it saved his life. This incident was in the early years when the BRS company had just started. The ultralights of today are structurally sound compared to those designed in the early days (as we all know), so the thought of a bolt coming out or the main spar folding is highly unlikely. So is a BRS needed? I haven't ever needed one, but maybe I should reevaluate this as my plane ages. Ralph Original FireStar, 13 years flying >is there anybody on the >list that has had to use a BRS? I would love to here your storie. >I'm sure this has been hashed over before but since I'm a new guy, >would you please be kind enough to offer some fresh opinions. > > Thanks in advance. > Rod Vacura ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Instruction
Date: Jan 11, 2000
I had dual instruction in a Rans S6II--the Firestar is easier to fly--landings and take offs due to slower landing speeds. The heavier two seaters tolerance of turbulence is much better than the Firestar. I also had several hours in a tail wheel Talon--good experience and worth the effort. Do not focus on the number of required hours--you and your instructor will know when you are ready. I had my Firestar before I started training and I soloed in my machine. Two months after I soloed and many hours I went back for a refresher hour to check on some technique questions. I soloed in September and have flown every weekend, but one, since that time. USUA has a list of instructors and ASC (found through EAA Ultralights) has a much larger list of potential instructors. You can find them on the web. Good Luck, Dale Seitzer I originally limited the search to west of the Mississippi River but have decided to expand the search area to include the whole US. I really don't like the idea of jumping in and flying with out some dual time in something that flies like the Firestar. For those of you flying a Firestar, what did you take your instruction in and how was the transition to the Firestar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AV8REXP(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: Information on St. Elmo Alabama
St. Elmo Airport Aprox 7 miles south of the Mobile Regional Airport, Mobile Alabama. About as far south in Alabama as you can get. Some of us locals will probably camp out Friday night and Saturday night. The fly in will be Saturday the 25th March. We are planing to have a saftey simanar Saturday night and then a fly away breakfast Sunday morning for those that chose the camp out Saturday night. AV8REXP(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: Re: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
In a message dated 1/11/00 10:51:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, beharrison(at)lexhealth.org writes: << If you can possibly afford it--get the BRS. The regulations make an allowance for the extra weight and it is well worth it. >> On the other hand, unlike my skinny friend Bruce, I am a big ol' guy and and I don't feel my FS I needs to haul that extra 20 lbs or so. Actually, after over 115 hours of air time I really don't feel the need for one. I do extra careful pre-flights, I don't fold my wings[any more], and I very seldom fly anywhere I can't land. If I ever lose 50 lbs and get rich I may buy one. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2000
From: Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com>
Subject: BRS insurance company
"All my assignments in the Army were Airborne, except when I was flying helicopters." OK John, I give up! How do you fly helicopters without being airbourne? Heh, Heh, just kidding! I couldnt pass that up. Kolbers; Everybody has different reasons for wanting, or not wanting a chute. I have had one on my trainers for 3000+ hours now, and have never needed it. Yet. As John says, we have some wicked timber out here that will foul up yer day if you go into it, lots of water, and for the most part, unlandable terrain. I had a Beech Musketeer rear end me mid-air a few years ago, and was stuck to him in-flight long enough to consider the chute. Problem was I didnt know HOW tight we were stuck together. The last thing I wanted was to land in the same place as a Beech full of fuel. So I didnt pull it. Glad I didnt. We dont fly over water unless in the floatplane, we DO NOT fly over timber unless altitude will allow a glide to a LANDABLE spot of ground. We stay out of the Olympics for the most part also. An engine failure in the Olympics is pretty close to a death sentance. (if you survive the crash, the mountian lions will eat you :) So why do I always use one? Same reason I buy life and car insurance, only a chute is LIFE insurance. What you buy every month for 40 bucks is DEATH insurance. Chances are if you are vigilant about preflights and fly as you should, you will never have a problem. BUT.... I DONT leave home without one. My wife NEVER whines when I buy a chute for a new plane. We wont talk about the plane itself! Oh yeah, I sell BRS, and this aint no ad. Im retired and if I had to live off what I make doing U/L stuff, I would have starved long ago. Cheers, Fly safe! Mike Olympic Ultralights ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net>
Subject: low idle
Date: Jan 11, 2000
I have a 377 engine that will idle fine at the start of the day, but after flying for about 1 hour when coming in for a landing and I chop the throttle it will shut off. I have to turn up the idle screw to get it back to 2200 rpm. Has anyone ever had the idle screw vibrate out a little while flying or any idea's. The engine runs good while flying Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lawrence Dorn" <ldorn(at)sinclair.net>
Subject: where is Olympic Ultralights located?
Date: Dec 31, 1999
I cant find a web site,directions, hours, or phone number! Lawrence Silverdale,Wa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: Re: BRS pros and con
Ralph H Burlingame wrote: > > > Hi Rod and others, > > I have never had a BRS on my FireStar in the 13 years flying it. There > are arguments pro and con with the use of one. I have friends that work > for BRS so I won't say anything negative about the product. I think it's > a great idea and I didn't get one for this reason: I stored the plane in > my garage where my kids had access and feared something happening to > them. After flying all these years without one, I believe the only way I > could lose control would be if I became incapacitated and couldn't get > down safely or if I left out one of the pins or safety rings upon setup. > After thinking about both of these situations, I figured the risk is low > and chose not to get one. There are a couple of situations that I have > heard about that have bothered me. One of them was the test > pilot/engineer on the Cumulus project that deployed a BRS prior to the > crash that killed him. If there was one guy that a BRS should have saved, > this would be it because BRS (the company) was in close contact with this > project. There have been a couple of situations where the BRS bridle > cable came loose and became tangled in the prop without deploying. One > them was in a Kolb which caused the engine to rip from its mounts. The > BRS was not at fault but the cable ties holding the bridle in place had > deteriorated due to UV exposure. The only incident that I can recall > where a BRS was deployed and saved the pilot, in this area, was a hang > glider whose support cable was worn where it couldn't be easily > inspected. The cable broke, he deployed the BRS and it saved his life. > This incident was in the early years when the BRS company had just > started. The ultralights of today are structurally sound compared to > those designed in the early days (as we all know), so the thought of a > bolt coming out or the main spar folding is highly unlikely. So is a BRS > needed? I haven't ever needed one, but maybe I should reevaluate this as > my plane ages. > > Ralph Ralph, one of the most common reasons given for a BRS is the posibility of a midair. Remember, no matter how careful and watchful one is if the OTHER guy is not watching he can get you. Remember the recent event in which a Piper (low wing blocking down visibility) landed on top of a Cessna (high wing blocking upward visibility) ? This can happen at altitude also. Years ago two friends of ours were killed near Holman field in a midair in which the circumstans and configuration of the aircraft blocked each others view of the other. A second is loss of engine over totally unlandable area. My view is that this never should happen to a responsible pilot, but we all know that there are those who indeed do fly over areas where they cannot possibly safely land. Third reason is metal fatigue. This is always a possibility. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2000
Subject: Re: BRS pros and con
BRS--no thanks--(1)Midair collision--doubtful that a BRS would be of much value in most such events, (2)landing on unlandable terrain--I would rather land in a controlled crash than dangling from a parachute completely out of control.(3) Metal fatigue(?) as in structural failure??--try some preventative maintenace and an actual preflight/postflight inspection procedure and stay within the flight envelpoe for the aircraft. Each to their own but they seem heavy, costly and of dubious value--just my opinion and not attacking anyone. I would much rather invest inan actual parachute and if the airplane catches fire I am going away from it. My Kitfox has no BRS, my RV4 will have no BRS but will wear a chute during aerobatics. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: low idle
Date: Jan 11, 2000
I don't know if anyone else has said this but in my opinion it sounds like you could use a little more fuel in the mixture at idle especially after it gets hot. Try turning the air screw in to make the mixture richer a little at a time until it keeps running at the desired rpm after you get it hot. Maybe 1/8 turn in at a time. Shouldn't take more than 1/4-3/8 at the most. If this doesn't work or it gets worse take the idle jet out and clean it like you have never cleaned it before. Tee nity holes don't take much to plug up. Then start over again with the air screw. Firehawk >From: "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Kolb" >Subject: Kolb-List: low idle >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:44:33 -0500 > > >I have a 377 engine that will idle fine at the start of the day, but after >flying for about 1 hour when coming in for a landing and I chop the >throttle >it will shut off. I have to turn up the idle screw to get it back to 2200 >rpm. Has anyone ever had the idle screw vibrate out a little while flying >or any idea's. The engine runs good while flying Thanks > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2000
From: Woody Weaver <mts0140(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Sun and Fun
Wally Hofmann wrote: > > > I've got a free ticket on Southwest burning a hole in my pocket and am thinking about going to Sun and Fun. Never been there or Oshkosh. > > Any suggestions on which two days would be the best and places to stay and/or avoid. I would arrive in Orlando and rent a car. > Been there a couple of times. You will absolutely love it. Choose Sun 'n Fun over Oskosh. Very different attitude. Finding a place to stay is tough. Avoid opening weekend. I'd suggest going Mon through Thursday. Orlando is the only place I've ever been where you pay a toll to get out of the airport. Done Sunday. Never again. Again, you will absolutely LOVE it! ww ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TCowan1917(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/11/00
Somebody needs a real life story about a BRS recovery. Okay, I belong to the Southern Ultralite Flyers Association and one of our members was flying a Cobra, rag and tube with only spoilers on top for ailerons. The rudder was spring loaded and one of the cables broke at about 1000'. It immediately spun out of control like a leaf falling from a tree. No chance for recovery. He pulled his BRS and it fouled on the prop or tail surface, one. He was still spinning hard. The chut did not deploy fully but he came down into the trees and the trees opened up (hard wood) and he went down towards the ground. The canopy caught the top of the tree and (as God had intended) the shroud lines were 75' long and the tree was 85' tall. It stopped him 10' short the ground and hung there. There was virtually no damage to the aircraft except for the firemen loading his plan on a tanker broke a tube. There you have it. His life was spared and he is listed on the BRS save chart. I was there and saw it and just knew I had talked to this man for the last time. I by the way was flying a Cobra also and this sent chills down my spine. When I sold the Cobra I kept my BRS and installed it on my Kolb Firestar under the belly on the main tube. It is covered in stits for weather and airstreams like it was not there. Hope I did not bore anyone with a real story about a real friend. He, by the way went on to buy and fly a Firestar although he has not had much experience lately. G'day Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: We're digging out of the rubble . . .
Our offices and shop have been in turmoil for the past week. We've had a contractor in working on our basement walls stabilizing them and fixing leaks. Everything is pulled out from the walls and we've got boxes stacked everywhere! The final inspection is today and we'll be putting things back into working order as soon as we can get at it . . . leaving 6:15 am tomorrow to do a weekend seminar in Oregon! Dee and I will be working to catch up as many orders as we can before we leave. It's going to be a little while before we're back to normal as there's much "stuff" that has to be put back where it belongs. I'll be taking a ton of e-mail messages with me on the laptop and will try to catch up on our list-server activities while we travel. Bob . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: looking for software . . .
Given that many of our brothers in aviation are also plugged into cyber-products, I thought I would inquire on the lists about recommendations for some shopping cart software. I've looked at several packages . . . there are dozens that e-mail a detailed and properly totaled order. Problem is that it would be just as convenient if it were faxed to us; we still have to re-keypunch data into the invoicing and packing list. Are any of you aware of an integrated package that ties website orders to the office data base so that we don't have to re-enter information already entered by the customer? It's really easy to make mistakes during the transcription process . . . Thanks! Bob . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: 22,000uF capacitor
>Large value electrolytics have significant self inductances ie. impedance to >high frequencies. The Rotax regulator is a switching device which shorts >half cycles to ground every now and again (on low load) and produces high >frequency, high voltage spikes in so doing. (This is the cause of most RF >interference). This combination can easily exceed even the 25v value for >very short periods. Whatever, a 16 volt cap. blows up nicely after a very >short time - and very spectacular too. Been there. Not sure about the Rotax regulator but all of the PM alternator regulators I've opened now use a full wave bridge rectifier with a silicon controlled rectifier in two legs to provide SERIES switching for control of output. This is in contract with older SHUNT switching regulators popular on small motorcycles of decades past. In any case, it's not voltage spikes that eat the capacitor but ripple current at the 2x the AC output frequency of the alternator. A number of my customers have blown some rather small capacitors (1.2" x 1.5") rated at 22,000 uFd and 25v with small solder terminals intended for mounting to an etched circuit board. These capacitors are NOT suited to this task at ANY voltage rating. . . . the capacitors I recommend are the so called "computer grade" electrolytics with fat, 10-32 threaded screw terminals. I believe the smallest one I could offer was on the order of 1.3" x 2.5" and have a ripple current rating of well over 10 amps. Bob . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/11/00
It immediately > spun out of control like a leaf falling from a tree. No chance for recovery. > He pulled his BRS and it fouled on the prop or tail surface, one. He was > still spinning hard. G'day Ted Ted and Kolbers: That was at Slocomb, Alabama, wasn't it? I remember the incident. It was Sunday morning, Spring or early Summer 1993, I was packing up my tent, loading my MK III, to fly back to Gantt International Airport (my cow pasture airstrip). I looked up when I heard the parachute mortar or rocket fire. If I remember correctly had a hard time finding James in the woods. When we did, he had the biggest smile I have ever seen on his face. On my departure for home I flew over the crash site. James was lucky. A couple hundred feet from where he landed was a pond with many dead pines in it. Just the trunks remaining, about 10 to 20 feet sticking out of the water. Glad he didn't land there. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N51SK(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/11/00
In a message dated 1/12/00 2:00:00 AM Central Standard Time, kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > Also, what do you guys fear would be > the #1 reason that you might need to use a BRS. "Engine out over a forrest?" > , > "Structual failure like a wing strut bolt falling out?" Is there anybody on > the > list that has had to use a BRS? I would love to here your storie. The only thing I would consider serious enough to use the chute would be structural failure that rendered the aircraft uncontrolable. Otherwise, I would fly the airplane and try to avoid obstacles until the last second. Steve Kroll ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brain Kim Steiner" <steiner(at)spreda.sk.ca>
Subject: Re: rotax 503
Date: Jan 12, 2000
> << Just one thing to consider before removing a fan, I have a 582 that > requires > constant airflow over its rads to keep it > cool. This becomes a problem when I taxi for extended periods as in going > downwind on a runway >> > > i always wondered if using a radiator with an electric fan from a small > car would work. ya know the fan is controlled by a thermostat.......... tim That sounds like a good idea. If anyone tries to add extra weight to the mounting brackets that hold the rads an extra brace should be installed to prevent excessive rad bracket flexing. I have had bracket fracture problems du to adding a cowling around the back side of one of the rads. This cowling collects warm air and sends it into my cockpit for winter flying. I made this cowling form .032 aluminum sheet and did not think it added any significant weight to the rad. After two rad bracket cracks at about 25 hours apart, I installed a brace from under one of the cylinder head nuts to the top of the rad bracket. This was installed about 100 hours ago --- no more broken rad brackets. I made the brace from a short length of 4130 tubing, did a bit of welding and bending, then painted it gray to match the aluminum color of the rad brackets. It blends in and is seldom noticed buy the average person. Kim Steiner Saskatchewan, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: Dave <doitdave(at)netscape.net>
Subject: Re: BRS pros and con]
Yo! I'm with you man. Piecing an airplane together with parts from Ace Hardware tm, performing uncoordinated flight or flying an inherently unstable plane would probably warrant a BRS. In any case I would be inclined to remain earth bound. Wearing a pack, on the other hand, makes more sense to me as well. What ever you do, do it well. doitdave JRWillJR(at)aol.com wrote: BRS--no thanks--(1)Midair collision--doubtful that a BRS would be of much value in most such events, (2)landing on unlandable terrain--I would rather land in a controlled crash than dangling from a parachute completely out of control.(3) Metal fatigue(?) as in structural failure??--try some preventative maintenace and an actual preflight/postflight inspection procedure and stay within the flight envelpoe for the aircraft. Each to their own but they seem heavy, costly and of dubious value--just my opinion and not attacking anyone. I would much rather invest inan actual parachute and if the airplane catches fire I am going away from it. My Kitfox has no BRS, my RV4 will have no BRS but will wear a chute during aerobatics. JR Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BRS over Barrow, Alaska?
>Yes, I use a ballistic parachute, a Second Chantz in the >center section, designed by myself and John Dunham in 1990. >My Brother Jim and I were just now chatting on icq about my parachute. We >need to shake it out, inspect for uv damage, and repack. We >believe the dual primed firing system for the solid fuel >rocket and the rocket fuel are still serviceable. I think it proably will, at least the rocket. I sunk one in the water couple of years ago. The chute was six or seven years old, so we fired it off later that week, after the water drained out. Turned the chute around backwards so the rocket would have to pull it up "opened". It worked like a champ-even after being in that muddy lake for 24 hours-that says something for BRS! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruzan3(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2000
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
Hi Guys, Does anybody know if I can do poly fiber repairs in cold weather? I do not have access to a heated hangar and I have to make some small cosmetic repairs for the FAA inspection . Will poly brush and poly tone dry at forty degrees? Any input will be helpful. Thanks, John Bruzan FS II N25029 20.8HR and learning P.S.Mr Hauck,the things you do are the stuff that dreams are made of. Please keep us posted! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Relay From Lindy
Evening Kolbers: The following is from Lindy. He is having a problem posting to List. He is receiving mail but his posts keep getting thrown back at him: **************************************************************** Having problems posting to Kolb list--changed all settings--one message-and nothing but rejects--I read the Kolb Traffic daily.Field Modification to cooling system with extended life anti-freeze-and mixing 2 cycle air cooler oil w/Amsoil 85-140 gear lube-changed cap--no vent hole-working on 582--to date. **************************************************************** john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: Mike Brown <motavia(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
John, Living in the cold northwest, and doing most aircraft building during the slow season(winter) All the planes I built were covered in 30 to 45 degree weather. (the Polytac has to be warmed up in the house to pour it, then I thin it with acetone.) One winter before I had heat in the shop, I had a Merlin to rebuild, so I used a 55 gallon drum turned upsidedown, with holes in the top and bottom, and had my cutting torch stuck in the bottom hole. As long as I stayed within 3 feet of the barrel, I could work without hypothermia. Talk about desperation..... Go ahead and do yer patches. Mike Olympic Ultralights Bruzan3(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > Does anybody know if I can do poly fiber repairs in cold weather? I do not > have access to a heated hangar and I have to make some small cosmetic repairs > for the FAA inspection . Will poly brush and poly tone dry at forty degrees? > Any input will be helpful. > > > Thanks, > John Bruzan > FS II N25029 > 20.8HR and > learning > P.S.Mr Hauck,the things you do are the stuff that dreams are made of. > Please keep us posted! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2000
From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Brother Mike sent me a little note mentioning John's plans and that being the fun kind of flying we get to do. I realized I better look back at the Kolb list and see what I had missed. Wow. I know how hard it is for fast airplane drivers to understand the safety we get in being able to land in the boonies, call home on the cell phone, and sack out for the night. It goes against everything that has become their definition of safe flying (25000 hours of dials, knobs, autopilots, FSS on the other end of the horn, and the absolute need for long straight pieces of pavement). Anyway, yep, all except one insulting reader knows what this is about -- real independence, freedom, adventure, seeing the beatiful sights roll by at 60mph, and meeting some interesting folks along the way. With your experience, and your own realization that still, experience doesn't guarantee safety, you are the right stuff for this kind of thing. I'll join the rest of the group in wishing you the best in planning and enjoying your adventure. It is something for us all to imagine, and wonder about perhaps even doing ourselves someday. Try to ignore the occassional fluff. I guess it is good to see a sample of how many people here and elsewhere are with you on this. -Later, Ben Ransom Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Barrow, Alaska
Morning Kolbers: Wish I could fly as well as some of you express yourselves on this List. I appreciate you supporting me, doing and attempting to do a few things that ordinary airplane drivers will never know exist, let alone experience for themselves. I have been accused by one, of over confidence, stupidity, and influencing young aviators on this List to go out and attempt to fly well over their heads. When I share with you my experiences, I always try to emphasize my mistakes as well as what I accomplish. I in no way am trying to tempt low time pilots to do the same things I do before they are ready. I am not an airline captain, business jet driver, corporate pilot, or spam can aviator. I am an ultralight pilot that has flown helicopters in the Army and fixed wing aircraft (primarily ultralights except for about 20 hours in a Cessna 152 to get a Private License). That means the hours I have accumulated since Sep 1968, have been with me on the controls all the time (no autopilot), even flying IFR in Huey's. My military and civilian flight time has been snuggled up close to Mother Earth (low altitude). I like to enjoy flying and experience what God has given us all to appreciate, the beauty of our world. On long cross countries, especially those in sparsely populated areas of the South West, mountains and big timber in California and up the West Coast, Canada, and Alaska, there is a big risk factor involved in accomplishing these flights. Many times they are extremely difficult, wind, rain, turbulence, fog, low ceilings, etc. I can not always keep a forced landing area within gliding distance. If I did I could not finish the flight. I have to accept the fact that I may lose my airplane and other serious consequences. I get cold, hot, hungry, thirsty, tired, bored, extremely lonely, scared, confused, wet, and miserable at times. I have to accept this. But for the most part I experience what few have or ever will. I am humbled that I have the opportunity make these flights. I am also grateful to experience beauty beyond compare, something I can not bring home with me in pictures or video. One has to be there and experience it in person. I have said this before and I will say it again. I make these flights to show others (GA type aircraft, ect.) what we can accomplish safely in our little airplanes, that they (real airplane drivers) will most likely never experience. We have the capability of landing very slowly in confined areas when the need arises. We can put down in hayfields to wait out thunderstorms or bad visability. We can land and ask directions if we get lost, before we run out of gas. We can flight follow with someone at home, not necessarily FSS. I have always flight followed with my brother Jim when I do long XCs. If he does not get a call from me within 24 hours, he knows my approximate route of flight and where I was the last time I checked in. Local flights at home, I always let someone know where I am going to fly. I never want anyone to think that I fly carefree in a hap hazard manner with complete abandon for cardinal rules of safe flight. I love to fly and have a lot of fun doing it, but in order to fly tomorrow, I must fly safely today. I am not an expert, never claimed to be. I sure as Hell do not know it all cause I learn something new almost every day. I also learn from your mistakes, young and old pilots. I share my experience, strengths and weaknesses, and hope, with you all so you won't have to make the same mistakes I have growing up in this young sport. I am an ultralight pilot who flies a fat two place ultralight that is registered experimental to make it legal for me to fly. The "N" numbers on the tailboom in no way change the character of my airplane. Still flies the same way. Only difference is I have to have a license, physical, and BFR, every two years. Fly safe and thank everyone for your kind words. john h Ben Ransom wrote: > > > Brother Mike sent me a little note mentioning John's > plans and that being the fun kind of flying we get to > do. I realized I better look back at the Kolb list > and see what I had missed. Wow. I know how hard it > is for fast airplane drivers to understand the safety > we get in being able to land in the boonies, call home > on the cell phone, and sack out for the night. > Ben Ransom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com>
Subject: Test Message
Date: Jan 13, 2000
John with all the complicated stuff I have on this machine -I figured out this solution to kolb list rejects----before I send message I hit format-change to plain text.Note --Only rejects I ever get is from kolb list-hopefully this will fix problem. I spent a least a day changing all type of settings and zero--reason I had to reply to your e-mail traffic on net. Fog-heavy again this morning-Panama City bunch will try to get off Sat morning at first light-we will be waiting at Waldan Field--probably will only fly the South Georgia leg--skip flying to Dawson for pancakes.Flight of 3---Hawk Arrow,Rans S-6,my Mark 3 Do you think it would be appropriate for me to use the Kolb Handle that Homer and Barbarba gave me? Do not want to start any lpi----ng contests as I remember firestar 1 being rolled on take-off. That should get a response to this test message. Lindy LA-Lower Alabama Former Leader Kolb Demo team Southeast United States-Old Kolb Company Mark 3 # 043-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1980
From: Dallas Shepherd <cen23954(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Jabiru Engine
Flew my Mark3 with the Jabiru 2200 for the first time tuesday. Flies different then with the 582. Don't have any airspeed figures yet because I was concentrating on the handling. Had to hold right rudder all the time above 2300 rpms and I also had to put in some trim to keep the nose up. Never had to do either with the 582. Lots of new sounds came in and made me nervious until I realized I hadn't flown this plane that fast before. Could only get to 2800 rpms as I had too much pitch in the prop. Its a Warp Drive 58" tapered prop. I have tweaked the prop back some and put a piece of trim on the rudder. Haven't tried them to see what happens. I don't think my airspeed indicater is too accurate so will have to get my gps going. That engine really moves it though. Stall was the same, about 42 mph if you could belive the indicater, same as with the 582. I found I was landing faster on the two landings I made, have to get use to those lower rpms. More later. Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Ar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru Engine
> Flew my Mark3 with the Jabiru 2200 for the first time tuesday. > Dallas Shepherd > Norfork, Ar. Dallas: Congartulations. Know you have a big grin on your face now. Keep up posted. It is the first Jabiru on a MK III isn't it? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2000
From: Dell Vinal <zoper(at)mint.net>
Subject: jab motor
Dallas,congratulations.I am eagerly looking forward to a report on your new motor.I bet we all are.Installation, performance, comparison impressions. Take your time and enjoy.This is big time.I've seen the motor and it is one of the cutest anywhere.Do a little write up and photo set and sell it to kitplanes? Don't mind me. All the best. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1980
From: Dallas Shepherd <cen23954(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Jabiru 2200
John H. As far as I know, its the first Jabiru on a Mark 111. John Norris is in the process of building a Mark 111, and he is putting Jabiru on it when its complete. He has the engine now, but still looking for the right propeller. Dallas Shepherd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank & Winnie Hodson" <fwhodson(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: Fabric Patches
Date: Jan 14, 2000
> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > Does anybody know if I can do poly fiber repairs in cold > weather? Will poly brush and poly tone dry at > forty degrees? Dear John: I have personally tested the process to zero degrees (F) without experiencing any difficulties. Even the drying time doesn't seem to extend unreasonably. Frank Hodson, Oxford ME FS II N6399J ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Davis" <scrounge(at)gis.net>
Subject: Fabric Patches
Date: Jan 14, 2000
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Davis" <scrounge(at)gis.net>
Subject: Fabric Patches
Date: Jan 14, 2000
John ,after the crows got through with my John , After the crows got through with my KXP in the fall of 98 I patched over thirty holes in weather just shy of a snow storm , looks kind of "country" but its still flying! Polytone and 2inch finishing tape I dont know what the book says but I would patch away . Chris Davis Cape Cod Ma. 14degrees and blowing 40mph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BILLBEAM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
Does anyone have dates of Fun-and-Sun???? Bill FS KY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RWilliJill(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
>Does anyone have dates of Fun-and-Sun???? >Bill >FS >KY April 9-15 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
Bill, Re the dates for Sun 'n Fun, Try their web site at www.sun-n-fun.org. They usually have dates, maps, fly-in advisories and other useful info for planing your visit. If you want to get a good camping spot you sometimes have to go a day or two early (and pay full price for those days, Ouch! ). You may want to consider going when the crowds thin out after that first big weekend. If you plan to stay in a near by motel you are already too late. You may have to stay closer to Tampa or Orlando but the drive and getting in the gate are usually not bad after the first weekend. Good luck however you go, Duane the plane in Tallahassee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: landing gear legs of ti
Date: Jan 13, 2000
Hi folks, Sonex aircraft manufacturers are having a $50 off sale on their Ti landing gear legs. The 24 13/64 inch legs are down to $225.00, and the longer legs 34" are down to $300 per pair. The 16 inch tail spring is still $50. For those of you considering an alternative gear these are supose to be fantastic. they are 1.125 inches in diameter and are used on an aircraft that has a gross weight of 1050. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Covering
Date: Jan 14, 2000
OK guys, here we go. I finally started covering the rudder of this thing the other day, and found it to go a "little" better than I expected, though I think I'll be high for 2 weeks from the MEK fumes. This with a fan blowing. ( It wasn't really THAT bad, honest.) Today I was applying the re-inforcing tape, figured out how to make it go smoothly around the rivets at the ends of the ribs, and life was sweet. Then Murphy shook his head, and everything went to hell. 1st - the tapes over the ribs went on smoothly, then I ran a 2" pinked tape up the front tube of the rudder; over the hinge holes, and find that it has to stretch to lay smoothly over the forward edge of the ribs and rivets. Only way I could do it was to snip a little on each side of the rivet, and that leaves a tiny gap. Is this OK, or is there a better way ?? 2nd - trying to iron the whole mess smooth at 225 deg. as in the R&R video didn't work very well. He says in the video that you'll have to turn the iron up surprisingly high. Well I did, to 250+, and all laid down smoothly except for the excess poly-brush, which smeared up into streaks and little balls. Is there a practical way to smooth these back out ?? Also noticed quite a bit of drag on the iron. Is this normal ?? I was using the little finishing iron. You sure have to watch where you've been when coating with the clear poly-brush, don't you ?? Re-coating a "done" area doesn't work too well - more smears. Any assistance will be gratefully accepted. Lost Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2000
From: John Yates <johny(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: Covering
Larry Bourne wrote: > > Hello 225 is really all that you need to smooth little bumps and small bubbles. It just softens the poly brush a little so everything can lay smooth. As far as the tapes on the tail feathers, at the shop we never bothered it's a waist of time. The rib ends do cause a real problem with the tapes. Just my 2 cents. Regards: John > > 225 deg. as in the R&R video didn't work very well. He says in the video > that you'll have to turn the iron up surprisingly high. Well I did, to > 250+, and all laid down smoothly except for the excess poly-brush, which > smeared up into streaks and little balls. Is there a practical way to > smooth these back out ?? Also noticed quite a bit of drag on the iron. Is > this normal ?? I was using the little finishing iron. You sure have to > watch where you've been when coating with the clear poly-brush, don't you ?? > Re-coating a "done" area doesn't work too well - more smears. Any > assistance will be gratefully accepted. Lost Lar. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: More Covering
Date: Jan 14, 2000
While I'm focussed on covering the rudder, here's an idea for those who haven't started yet. The rudder horn is rivetted on the inside of the front tube, and the fabric has to be slit to slip down over on each side. So far, fine. Of course, me being me, I slit too much in the wrong places, and it looked like rats chewed it open, till I put the patches over them. Problem is, the curved piece that rivets on to the tube has a sharp edge that sticks up just a little above the fabric on each side, leaving a ridge that I think may be a problem spot for chafing in the future, so I put an extra layer of re-inforcing over those few inches. Since it's all painted, and was covered when I noticed this, I said "phooey," (or something) and kept going. If I were going to do it over, I would file those edges down smooth, and slightly below the fabric, to eliminate any potential problem, and improve appearance. Helpful Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Covering
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Thanks for the reply John. The 1st side, I started at one end and glued it down till I reached the other end. Kinda fought the rivets into submission. Kinda. On the 2nd side, spread poly-brush from rivet to rivet, laid the strip into it and let it set up a bit. Then cut the ends to length, slit the ends to just short of the rivets, spread the glue and they pretty well flowed down. Nice and smooth and quick and easy. I'll try (tomorrow) the lower heat, slowly over the smears, and see what happens. I'll try the teflon coated big iron this time. What hurts is that I found where a piece of something got under a tape, right out in plain sight and made a lump. Tiny lump, but it shows and I didn't like it, so took my pocket knife, (razor sharp) and slit the tape to try and scrape the lump out. As I said, razor sharp, and my shiny new rudder now has its' 1st patch on it. Wiser Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Yates <johny(at)epix.net> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Covering > > > Larry Bourne wrote: > > > > > Hello > > 225 is really all that you need to smooth little bumps and small bubbles. It > just softens the poly brush a little so everything can lay smooth. As far as the > tapes on the tail feathers, at the shop we never bothered it's a waist of time. > The rib ends do cause a real problem with the tapes. Just my 2 cents. > Regards: > John > > > > > 225 deg. as in the R&R video didn't work very well. He says in the video > > that you'll have to turn the iron up surprisingly high. Well I did, to > > 250+, and all laid down smoothly except for the excess poly-brush, which > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: More and More Covering
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Hope you guys don't get tired of all this. I was re-reading the Kolb book just now, and it says something about rivetting the fabric to the horizontal stabilizer to prevent "drumming." Video doesn't say anything about that, or at least, I haven't seen it yet if it does. I know I have to rivet the fabric to the tops of the wings, but on the tail too ?? Has anyone else done this ?? Where on the tail ?? Confused Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More Covering
BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are located before you put the finishing tape over them. They are kind of hard to find with two layers of fabric over them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Covering
Date: Jan 14, 2000
Muchas Grassy Ass, I will. ----- Original Message ----- From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Covering > > > BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
> >Hope you guys don't get tired of all this. I was re-reading the Kolb book >just now, and it says something about rivetting the fabric to the horizontal >stabilizer to prevent "drumming." Video doesn't say anything about that, or >at least, I haven't seen it yet if it does. I know I have to rivet the >fabric to the tops of the wings, but on the tail too ?? Has anyone else >done this ?? Where on the tail ?? Confused Lar. > > Since I didn't want to drill any rivit holes in my skinny little tail ribs. I just threw a couple rib stitches in the middle of the various empennage ribs, work the knots around until they are inside the fabric, and covered the resulting little bumps with a short section of tape. Easy. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Where on the tail ?? Confused Lar. Pick spots with a big gap between front and back tubes, and tie things down. As long as it looks right, it will be. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More Covering
> > >BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are >located before you put the finishing tape over them. They are kind of hard >to find with two layers of fabric over them. Maybe it wasn't the finishing tape, now that I think about it. I forgot to burn some of the holes before I put the first coat of silver on. Had lots of fun trying to find all those little rivet holes in the trailing edge after that. You would be suprised how quickly you can forget all these little things. Sorry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: Covering
> >OK guys, here we go. I finally started covering the rudder of this thing >the other day, the excess poly-brush, which >smeared up into streaks and little balls. Is there a practical way to >smooth these back out ?? Also noticed quite a bit of drag on the iron. Is >this normal ?? I was using the little finishing iron. You sure have to >watch where you've been when coating with the clear poly-brush, don't you ?? >Re-coating a "done" area doesn't work too well - more smears. Any >assistance will be gratefully accepted. Lost Lar. When you start ironing, Poly Brush is not too friendly. And the more heat, the less friendly. Sometimes it helps to try to iron places over tubing without sliding the iron. You kind of put it where you want it and then rock it around, and then pick it up and move it to another spot and rock it and work it without sliding it to get the fabric to fit down around the rivits and bumps. Obviously that does'nt work out on the open expanses of fabric, just around the little ticky places. Practice on the underside of places where cosmetics are not so important, save the top side for when you get the hang of it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Covering
Larry Bourne wrote: > > > Thanks for the reply John. The 1st side, I started at one end and glued it > down till I reached the other end. Kinda fought the rivets into submission. > Kinda. On the 2nd side, spread poly-brush from rivet to rivet, laid the > strip into it and let it set up a bit. Then cut the ends to length, slit > the ends to just short of the rivets, spread the glue and they pretty well > flowed down. Nice and smooth and quick and easy. I'll try (tomorrow) > the lower heat, slowly over the smears, and see what happens. I'll try the > teflon coated big iron this time. What hurts is that I found where a > piece of something got under a tape, right out in plain sight and made a > lump. Tiny lump, but it shows and I didn't like it, so took my pocket > knife, (razor sharp) and slit the tape to try and scrape the lump out. As I > said, razor sharp, and my shiny new rudder now has its' 1st patch on it. > Wiser Lar. The "lump" is what is called a gel slug. When PolyTak is poured into a small can and applied with a brush, what is on the side and edges of the can starts to set up. This gets on the brush and ends up as lumps as the PolyTak is applied to the structure and then ends up under the fabric. This is the kind of thing I said might require slightly higher temps, and application of significant pressure from the iron. Gel slugs were the bain of my existance when covering until I learned something from my PolyFiber dealer. He uses a small bottle to store the PolyTak in, and to apply it to the structure. It is similar to the ketchup bottles one sees in restraunts, and has a long pointed spout on the top. The one I use is a Revlon bottle and works great. Because the bottle is closed except for the small hole in the end of the spout it does not harden up. It is necessary to remove the excess from the tip after it has set for a while, but this is minor. I have filled the bottle and let it set around for days without the material inside even starting to harden. Much better than filling a can and having to clean up can and brush after every session. To apply PolyTak to the structure one simply points the spout at the spot, move along while squeezing LIGHTLY on the bottle. Lay out a bead about 18" long, and then spread it out over the surface with the finger. I keep a wipe rag looped through my belt like a big to quickly wipe the finger on after this operation. If the structure surface is vertical, one first puts the tip of a finger on the surface, puts the spout against the finger, and then moves both finger and spout along the surface. The finger acts as a dam and allows the PolyTak bead to be laid down without running down. Again, quickly spread the bead into the required thin layer, press fabric in place and proceed to the next section. Do not attempt to do too large a length at once. One warning. Clean the end of the spout frequently. Wipe with rag, and sometimes poke it open with small wire (length of 1/16 welding rod works fine). If spouts starts to clog up you will find that adhesive will not come out with LIGHT pressure on the bottle, and then when you instinstive increase pressure it will SPURT OUT all over everything. This technique works great. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Covering
Larry Bourne wrote: > > > OK guys, here we go. I finally started covering the rudder of this thing > the other day, and found it to go a "little" better than I expected, though > I think I'll be high for 2 weeks from the MEK fumes. This with a fan > blowing. ( It wasn't really THAT bad, honest.) Today I was applying the > re-inforcing tape, figured out how to make it go smoothly around the rivets > at the ends of the ribs, and life was sweet. Then Murphy shook his head, > and everything went to hell. 1st - the tapes over the ribs went on > smoothly, then I ran a 2" pinked tape up the front tube of the rudder; over > the hinge holes, and find that it has to stretch to lay smoothly over the > forward edge of the ribs and rivets. Only way I could do it was to snip a > little on each side of the rivet, and that leaves a tiny gap. Is this OK, > or is there a better way ?? 2nd - trying to iron the whole mess smooth at > 225 deg. as in the R&R video didn't work very well. He says in the video > that you'll have to turn the iron up surprisingly high. Well I did, to > 250+, and all laid down smoothly except for the excess poly-brush, which > smeared up into streaks and little balls. Is there a practical way to > smooth these back out ?? Also noticed quite a bit of drag on the iron. Is > this normal ?? I was using the little finishing iron. You sure have to > watch where you've been when coating with the clear poly-brush, don't you ?? > Re-coating a "done" area doesn't work too well - more smears. Any > assistance will be gratefully accepted. Lost Lar. If finishing tapes are applied to significant curves life is easier if one uses bias tape. In using bias tape remember that it shrinks in width when pulled in the long direction. I would not use clear PolyBrush except for it's intended use (inside of cockpit areas, etc), just too hard to see. After applying a tape the PolyBrush often has a accumulated in places along side of the tape. One should work on this with the tip of a small brush and reducer or MEK. Just lightly touch the areas of the buildup and smooth it out. The "...little finishing iron..." is VERY unstable in temp and varies over a LARGE range as it cycles on and off. I would not use it for anything but small areas that are difficult to get at with a regular iron. All of the PolyFiber coatings soften at 225 F, and at 250 F do much more than soften. After the PolyBrush has been applied there should be no need for using the iron except for using the tip on the tape edges. Sometimes one has to use the sole of the iron on areas where the fabric goes over the leading/trailing edges to smooth down bubbles, wrinkles, etc. In this case it is often necessary to use higher temperature because of the heat sink effect of the aluminum, and to press HARD to get lumps out. Using 250 on parts of tape will cause shrinkage, which one does not want. Sometimes as later coats (spray coat of PolyBrush or PolySpray are applied there might be some slight lifting in isolated spots of pinked "ears". At this point direct contact even at 225 can cause a mess. In this case use a thin sheet of Teflon under the iron. After application of heat in this manner, do not move the Teflon until it cools down - requires patience as it takes a bit of time. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Larry Bourne wrote: > > > Hope you guys don't get tired of all this. I was re-reading the Kolb book > just now, and it says something about rivetting the fabric to the horizontal > stabilizer to prevent "drumming." Video doesn't say anything about that, or > at least, I haven't seen it yet if it does. I know I have to rivet the > fabric to the tops of the wings, but on the tail too ?? Has anyone else > done this ?? Where on the tail ?? Confused Lar. You are talking of course about "rib stitching". One of the methods of preventing the fabric from pulling up is pop rivets. This is absolutely ncessary for the wings, and sometimes for the tail members. If the airframe manufactures manual says to do the tail members, then they should certainly should be done. Reinforcing tape (NOT THE SAME AS FINISHING TAPE!!) should always be used when rib stitching, otherwise the fabric can tear through from the rivet heads. This would be done on ribs of the tail members. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Richard Pike wrote: > Since I didn't want to drill any rivit holes in my skinny little tail ribs. > I just threw a couple rib stitches in the middle of the various empennage > ribs, work the knots around until they are inside the fabric, and covered > the resulting little bumps with a short section of tape. Easy. > Richard Pike Nothing at all wrong with rib stitching instead of pop rivets. It is still necessary, however to use reinforcing tape to prevent tear out. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: More Covering
Possum wrote: > > > > > > > >BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are > >located before you put the finishing tape over them. They are kind of hard > >to find with two layers of fabric over them. > > Maybe it wasn't the finishing tape, now that I think about it. I forgot to > burn some of the holes before I put the first coat of silver on. I don't understand this. Application of rib stitching (actual stitching, PK screws, Martin clips, pop rivets, etc) are applied after the brush coat of PolyBrush (or FIRST coat of whatever system one is using). From what I am reading it appears that you did this AFTER the silver coats? gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN Had lots > of fun trying to find all those little rivet holes in the trailing edge > after that. You would be suprised how quickly you can forget all these > little things. Sorry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: More Covering
Date: Jan 15, 2000
I certainly hope you didn't put rivet holes in the trailing edge to rivet the fabric. This area should have been wrapped around and then a tape glued over it. If your have placed rivet holes in the trailing edge, I would question the strength of your flying surface. I would further check with Kolb. Drilling holes in structures where none are necessary bothers me. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> Date: Saturday, January 15, 2000 12:39 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Covering > >> >> >>BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are >>located before you put the finishing tape over them. They are kind of hard >>to find with two layers of fabric over them. > >Maybe it wasn't the finishing tape, now that I think about it. I forgot to >burn some of the holes before I put the first coat of silver on. Had lots >of fun trying to find all those little rivet holes in the trailing edge >after that. You would be suprised how quickly you can forget all these >little things. Sorry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More Covering
>> > >> >BTW you might remember to burn the holes where your rivet holes etc. are >> >located before you put the finishing tape over them. They are kind of hard >> >to find with two layers of fabric over them. >> >> Maybe it wasn't the finishing tape, now that I think about it. I forgot to >> burn some of the holes before I put the first coat of silver on. > > >I don't understand this. Application of rib stitching (actual >stitching, PK screws, Martin clips, pop rivets, etc) are applied after >the brush coat of PolyBrush (or FIRST coat of whatever system one is >using). From what I am reading it appears that you did this AFTER the >silver coats? >-------------- I was talking about the airleron, rudder & elevator hinge holes that are covered up by the fabric, maybe I wasn't that clear. --------------- HEY LARRY, send me your address again and I'll send you a Sq. yard of the "teflon" that Gil Leiter is talking about. It is really neat stuff when you'r ironing the tapes. I ironed my whole wings from top to bottom after I sprayed the last coat of Ploybrush with the "teflon" layed over them. Gives them a shiny smooth finish even before you silvercoat or paint them. It's sunny here-going flying. Possum ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: 1999 List of Contributors #2!
Dear Listers, Below is the final List of Contributors for 1999 as promised. Again, I would like to thank everyone that made a generous contribution in 1999 to support the continued operation of these email Lists. Your support directly makes the quality and quantity of this service possible. Thank you! Matt Dralle EMail List Administrator RV-4 Builder, #1763 - N442RV =================== 1999 List of Contributors #2 ==================== Adamson, Arden Allender, Patrick Anonymous from MN Asher, M.E. Baxter, Rob Bell, Doug Bendure, Ryan Bergh, David Berrie, Robert Blake, J.I. Boucher, Michel Bragg, Medford Briegleb, Ross Brietigam, Charles Broomell, Glenn Brusilow, Michael Chatham, Robert Clary, Buck Coats, Lonnie Cook, Craig - Golf Instruments Co. Cooper, James Cribb, William Jr. Crosby, Harry Dane, Bill Von Dziewiontkoski, Bob Ellenberger, Mike Embree, Roger Faatz, Mitch Fasching, John Gibbons, Robert Glauser, David Gold, Andy -Builder's Bookstore 10% Gregory, Steve Grenier, Raymond Guarino, Michael H., Harold - E.P.M.AV Corp Hale, Brian Hunt, Wallace Johnston, Leroy Jordon, Don Killion, Clay Klingmuller, Dr. L.M. Magaw, David Mains, Ralph Maltby, Michael Martin, Cliff - Martin Metal Fab Mazataud, Hyun Sook McBride, Duncan McDonald, James Mendenhall, Elbie - E.M Aviation Mitchell, Duane Morley, Harold Peck, Phil Pessel, Garnett Rodebush, James Ross, Jonathan Schmidt, John Scully, William Smith, Steven Spence, Stephen Triff, Wes Wagoner, Richard Weaver, Brian Wiegenstein, John Wiley, Robert Wilson, Donald -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Big Lar, I have been lurking the thread on covering. I may be a couple of steps ahead of you in the covering process, sort of. You are ahead of me on the finishing tape. To get back to your original question, the blue prints show 3 rivet holes in the horizontal brace of the vertical stabilizer. I think this is what is referred to in the third paragraph on page 51 of the builders manual. I think the same applies to the horizontal stabilizers also. The prints are out in the work shop and I am too lazy to go check. Also, it is getting cold. Down to 48 already. Only got up to low 60"s today, and breezy. I have covered the tail feathers, flaps and ailerons. I have brushed on one coat of Poly-Brush on the elevators. I then decided to finish all the covering and apply all the coatings on them in one operation. This way I can align the work shop for the job at hand and save on the number of clean up operations. I started out following the procedures shown on the tape for the 1st couple of assemblies. I ended up spending a lot of time smoothing the wrinkles out of the edges. I switched to applying a couple of coats of Tak to the tubing, letting it set up and then pressing the fabric into it and applying MEK and caressing it lovingly with thumb and finger. Using this procedure I got them smooth enough to require practically no smoothing (ironing). When it came to attaching the overlap, I again applied 2 coats of Tak on top of the first layer of fabric, let it dry and then attached only the very end/edge of the fabric using a solder brush cut off to about 3/8 of an inch to apply just enough Tak to secure. This leaves most of the overlap area free to move. Next I trimmed and fitted the ends. I then shrank just enough to take out all the slack. The overlap being fastened only at the very edge pulls down smooth over the 1st layer. I then finished up the ends. Finally whip out the MEK, thumb and finger, to finish Taking the overlap area. You end up with a really nice overlap and practically no wrinkles. I am starting on the cage now. It has occurred to me that I have to go thru the entire process including painting the cage as the next step. Once I attach the vertical stabilizer, turning the cage over to paint the bottom will be extremely difficult. Or, can you lay on the ground and spray paint up? I am planning to pull the landing gear and roll it over. Have you discovered as I did that after you cover these parts, they are much harder to store? My narrow minded wife says NO! not in the living room! I am not going to cover the wings until I can put them on the plane as I finish them. BTW I used Gil's catsup bottle Tak dispenser. Works great!. Possum: Where do you buy the Teflon sheets? What is it known as? (ie. Brand name or product name). L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, Fl Building Mark III, SN 312--N629RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruzan3(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Fabric Patches
Hi Guys, Just to let you know, the poly fiber patches worked out just fine today in 35 degree weather. I also touched up the paint and installed a static line for the airspeed indicator.It was reading 10-20 mph too high so I hope this will help. Maybe the wind will slow down next weekend so i can check it out Thanks for the tips, John Bruzan FSII EIS,BRS,503 21hr Chicago ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
> >Possum: Where do you buy the Teflon sheets? What is it known as? (ie. >Brand name or product name). The teflon I used is not exactly the same as the kind they use in the covering classes (couldn't find that stuff), but seems to be just as good. It is sold by "Aircraft Spruce" under "Vacuum Bagging Supplies" and called "Non-Porous Teflon Coated Release Fabric". Part Number P/N 01-14840. Really made for composite lay-ups. Works great with you iron. Your iron will be your best friend by the time you get through covering your plane. Cost about $10.00 a sq. yd. last time I bought it. Doesn't seem to wear out so you don't need but one or two sq. yds. At the most! I cut a 6-in. x 36-in. strip to lay over my finishing tapes to iron down the edges every time I sprayed another coat of something over them, if you know what I mean. You can iron over Polytack, Polybrush, Silvercoat and even paint (if you're careful) with this stuff. You will still have to be careful with you heat settings on your finishing tapes. This stuff's so slippery you can lay a piece of it on the top of your wing and it will slid off if you don't tape it down. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Date: Jan 15, 2000
I don't know who's ahead of what at this point Ray. I'm about to peel off the perimeter tape for the 3rd time tomorrow morning. I tried a combination of straight tapes on the straight portions, and bias cut on the bends. Twice. Ugly ! ! ! Bias worked fine on the curves, but neither seems to do too well at molding around the rivets at the ends of the ribs - front and back. Strange, cause the tapes I laid over the ribs yesterday molded right around the ends by making a small split. These perimeter tapes are giving me fits. I tried the teflon coated big iron at 225, and it worked much better. I'll try wiping the smears off with MEK tomorrow. The chunk under the tape was a tiny sliver, and the patch looks............OK. The little globs of poly-brush melted down fine at 225. Possum was right - the holes are hard to find under 2 layers. Gil, I'm printing out your messages for permanent, on the spot references. Thanks much, EVERYBODY, for the help and advice. I know it'll go, but what a bitch of a job. Some of you seem to enjoy this............brrrrrr ! ! ! Masochism reigns. Thanks all - we'll give 'er 'ell tomorra. Little Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More and More Covering > > Big Lar, > > I have been lurking the thread on covering. I may be a couple of steps > ahead of you in the covering process, sort of. You are ahead of me on > the finishing tape. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Thanks much, EVERYBODY, for the help and >advice. I know it'll go, but what a bitch of a job. Some of you seem to >enjoy this............brrrrrr ! ! ! Masochism reigns. Thanks all - we'll >give 'er 'ell tomorra. Little Lar. Hell, I enjoy watching you do it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ulflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Subject: Re: 1999 List of Contributors #2!
Matt, I'm not concerned about the listing, but since I'm not on the list I want to be sure you did receive my check back near the 2nd week of November. It has been processed by the bank and I want to be sure it got to you and not someone else. Just checking (no pun intended). Charlie Kirtland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Larry Bourne wrote: > I tried a combination > of straight tapes on the straight portions, and bias cut on the bends. > Twice. Ugly ! ! ! Bias worked fine on the curves, but neither seems to do > too well at molding around the rivets at the ends of the ribs - front and > back. Strange, cause the tapes I laid over the ribs yesterday molded right > around the ends by making a small split. Thanks all - we'll > give 'er 'ell tomorra. Little Lar. Lar, I am a Challenger builder and am not intimately knowledgeable as to the minute details of Kolb construction. I do not have a real clear picture of the area with "...rivets at the ends of the ribs." You might be trying to accomplish too much. It is very difficult to get the fabric to lay perfectly flat and closely match a rivet head. Usually there will be a small bubble around the rivet. Will all look nice and smooth, but there will be a small area around the rivet head where the fabric DOES NOT contact the structure. Sometimes one can make it better with the tip of the iron, but there are limits. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Subject: Confusion Over "List of Contributors"...
Hi Listers, I'm really sorry for the confusion over the most recent posting of the List of Contributors #2. List #2 contained only the contributor names *since* the List #1 was posted. So, if you weren't on List #2, you were likely on List #1. Below are URLs to each of the LOC #x postings. Again, sorry for the confusion. I should have made it more clear in the verbiage. Thanks to everyone, Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================ List of Contributors #1 - 1999 ------------------------------ http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO List of Contributors #2 - 1999 ------------------------------ http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO ============================================================================ -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2000
From: Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: (Whoops) Confusion Over "List of Contributors"...
> >Okay, here are the *real* URLs. Sorry... > > >Matt Dralle >Email List Admin. > > >============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================ > > > List of Contributors #1 - 1999 > ------------------------------ > > >http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_ >of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO > > > List of Contributors #2 - 1999 > ------------------------------ > > >http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_ >of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=YES > > >============================================================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Subject: Re: (No, Really - Here are the URLs) Confusion Over "List of
Contributors"... Geeze, I can't seem to type today. Here are the *real*, *REAL* URLs. Sorry for so many posts... Ack Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================ List of Contributors #1 - 1999 ------------------------------ http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO List of Contributors #2 - 1999 ------------------------------ http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO ============================================================================ -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Larry, My memory is a little slow to kick in sometimes. When it did, I checked the archives and found this little gem. I plan to give Jim a call when I get ready to start on the tapes. Ray Match: #3 Message: #13762 From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> Subject: Finishing tapes........ Date: Dec 29, 1999 Hi to the list, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all of you!! About those finishing tapes..... the main reason for taping all fabric edges is to give a "plywood" or "sandwich" effect. This helps to insure strenth and integrity to the fabric edges. I have some techniques for applying the tapes, that almost eliminate the need for cutting "darts" or wedges in the fabric or tapes when you're attempting to make them lay down over such protrusions as "Holmer's bumps", as well as ideas for taping the edges of the control surfaces. Here's an open invitation to all of you to call me anytime toll free to talk these techniques over!! We do this stuff everyday here at Millertime airport, if any of you are in the area, give us a call & come on over!! Jim & Dondi Miller Aircraft Technical Support, Inc. Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334 Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1980
From: Dallas Shepherd <cen23954(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Jabiru
B. Young. Yes, the propeller is turning much faster with the direct drive, thats what I understood when I question the small 58" prop. I haven't flown since the first flight and I have repitched the prop and put a trim on the rudder, results are yet to come. Been having too much wind and by the time I got around today, its rain. The most I have gotten out of the engine was 2800 rpms, had too much pitch. Sure did push it though.I'm looking for around 3200rpms at full throttle. Its getting off the ground with 23 to 2400rpms so watch those fast taxi's unless you have plenty of room. I just about kissed the tree's at the end of my run way when it took off. I gave it a ground loop, mild one, and it stopped with no problem. I had it back on the ground, but was going too fast for the brakes. Dallas in Norfork,Ar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1980
From: Dallas Shepherd <cen23954(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: jabiru
The propeller is a Warp Drive 58" tapered. Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
>Been reading about your Teflon sheet comments in the Kolb group. When using >this stuff, does it affect your iron settings much. I mean, do you have to >increase the setting a certain amount when you put the Teflon between the >iron and the fabric? Which might mean I gotta calibrate the iron for two >applications? ----------------------- >It is very difficult to get the >fabric to lay perfectly flat and closely match a rivet head. Usually >there will be a small bubble around the rivet. Will all look nice and >smooth, but there will be a small area around the rivet head where the >fabric DOES NOT contact the structure. Sometimes one can make it better >with the tip of the iron, but there are limits. ----------------------- No you don't have to reset your iron. This stuff is thin, like wax paper know you might think this is stupid, but I drilled a hole through my small iron (model iron) just a little bigger than the rivet heads, near the "pointy end" and tapered the bottom out smooth with a "step drill" (the small iron is soft metal). You can rotate the iron around the rivets to shrink the fabric. Helps a "little" bit. Didn't hurt the iron. You know that if you set your iron too high, it will shrink your finishing tapes into all kind of weird shapes. As far as Irons. Here's what I did. 1. Go to Sears or somewhere they will take stuff back-buy 3 different irons. 2. You can't tell which one will "hold" the best temp. by the price. 3. Buy yourself one of those "pocket thermometers" (you know, those little "round things") from Aircraft Spruce or from a model shop. 4. Calibrate the irons-see below. 5. Keep the best one (the one that really "holds the temps.) and take the others back-"you wife didn't like them". 6. Calibrate your irons with the candy therms and cross-check with the "pocket therm", mine matched almost exactly. 7. Now before you use your iron each time, set the "pocket therm" on the iron turned upside down of course. It only takes about 15 seconds to check it & no silicone to wipe off every time. P.S. you can really spend too much time on this if your're not careful, but the only thing most people are ever going to see is your covering job and your paint. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Less covering.... more welding
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Hey Lar: How'd the covering go on the horiz. stab...? You were going to attack it today, weren't you? I got your squirrel note, but couldn't help but notice the omission of any mention of the covering... silence is scary... I have a separate question I've been mulling over in the sodden mush which passes for my mind, and I thought you, or one of the other Kolbers, might have some knowledge/inputs which could help.... I wanna buy a welder... a real one... not another one of the little straight AC "buzz boxes" like I've blown holes in various cars, farm gear, bystander's clothing, small animals, etc. with in years past, but a real, no-joke sophisticated machine... To start with, I gotta build a superstructure on this trailer chassis I'm having built to haul around my so-called airplane... As any real, testosterone oozing, specimen of Guyneedmoretoolus Americanae can instantly see, there is opportunity here....a bit of daylight... a TOOL opening...! "But Honey, just think of all the things I'll be able to build and fix for YOU after we get up on the farm..." It strikes me that I would need a welder to do all of the following: --- Weld mild steel from about 20 gauge sheet up thru at least one-quarter inch stock --- weld galvanized materials --- occasionally weld aluminum sheet... There are a number of nifty little 100 to 130 amp MIG wirefeed gizmos on the market which claim to do all the above, but here's my question....(s): Can these DC MIG wirefeed welders also handle 4130 chromalloy for aircraft purposes? I seem to recall that 4130 was always gas welded... What does Kolb use to build their 4130 cages and fittings...? If MIG works OK on thinwall 4130 tube, are there any special requirements or techniques needed... Does MIG burn holes through .028 or .035 tube at low amperages...? Does one need argon, or special alloy wire...? Lotsa questions... lotsa ignorance on this end... I figure I oughta get some answers before I make a mistake and get a welding unit that won't fix this glorified lawn chair I built if'n I roll it up into a ball one fine mornin'... Whaddya think? Beauford, the aluminum and dacron Butcher of Brandon Still hacking away at FireFly #076 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Subject: Less covering.... more welding
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Get a the small 100/130 Miller or Lincoln Mig welder, they cost in the $500 to $600 range. They are small, handy, portable, operate off 110 vac and will do everything you describe except the aluminum. Forget the no-name buzz boxes you describe they are a poor substitute. In the hands of the unpracticed, yes it will blow lots of holes in .035 tubing. It does take a lot of practice for such welding - but novices don't do well with a torch either without practice. A TIG is easier to weld thin wall tubing with - you have better heat control, but plan on spending a lot more money. Don't plan on a lot of 1/4" thick steel either with the 100/130 machines. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Beauford Tuton Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 7:31 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Less covering.... more welding Hey Lar: How'd the covering go on the horiz. stab...? You were going to attack it today, weren't you? I got your squirrel note, but couldn't help but notice the omission of any mention of the covering... silence is scary... I have a separate question I've been mulling over in the sodden mush which passes for my mind, and I thought you, or one of the other Kolbers, might have some knowledge/inputs which could help.... I wanna buy a welder... a real one... not another one of the little straight AC "buzz boxes" like I've blown holes in various cars, farm gear, bystander's clothing, small animals, etc. with in years past, but a real, no-joke sophisticated machine... To start with, I gotta build a superstructure on this trailer chassis I'm having built to haul around my so-called airplane... As any real, testosterone oozing, specimen of Guyneedmoretoolus Americanae can instantly see, there is opportunity here....a bit of daylight... a TOOL opening...! "But Honey, just think of all the things I'll be able to build and fix for YOU after we get up on the farm..." It strikes me that I would need a welder to do all of the following: --- Weld mild steel from about 20 gauge sheet up thru at least one-quarter inch stock --- weld galvanized materials --- occasionally weld aluminum sheet... There are a number of nifty little 100 to 130 amp MIG wirefeed gizmos on the market which claim to do all the above, but here's my question....(s): Can these DC MIG wirefeed welders also handle 4130 chromalloy for aircraft purposes? I seem to recall that 4130 was always gas welded... What does Kolb use to build their 4130 cages and fittings...? If MIG works OK on thinwall 4130 tube, are there any special requirements or techniques needed... Does MIG burn holes through .028 or .035 tube at low amperages...? Does one need argon, or special alloy wire...? Lotsa questions... lotsa ignorance on this end... I figure I oughta get some answers before I make a mistake and get a welding unit that won't fix this glorified lawn chair I built if'n I roll it up into a ball one fine mornin'... Whaddya think? Beauford, the aluminum and dacron Butcher of Brandon Still hacking away at FireFly #076 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beaufordw(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Less covering.... more welding
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Dennis: Thank you for the response... Leading contender so far is the Lincoln WeldPack 155, which runs off 230V and seems to offer a fair compromise between cost and capability.... The missing piece was performance on 4130 tube... I reckon a man needs some practice, 'eh...? Thankee, Beauford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 8:51 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Less covering.... more welding > > Get a the small 100/130 Miller or Lincoln Mig welder, they cost in the $500 > to $600 range. They are small, handy, portable, operate off 110 vac > Hey Lar> > Beauford, the aluminum and dacron Butcher of Brandon > Still hacking away at FireFly #076 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Less covering.... more welding
I wanna buy a welder... a real one... not another one of the little > Beauford Beauford and Kolbers: The best aircraft welder I know lurks on this List. In fact, he has welded, modified, fabricated, straightened, replaced, spliced, bent, cut, and ground, on ever aircraft I have built, flown, and broken. BTW: That covers all three. Some more than others. Contact me bc and I will give you his email, or maybed you can pull him out into the open and get him to pass on some of his expertise on the List. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
Possum wrote: > > > >Been reading about your Teflon sheet comments in the Kolb group. When using > >this stuff, does it affect your iron settings much. I mean, do you have to > >increase the setting a certain amount when you put the Teflon between the > >iron and the fabric? Which might mean I gotta calibrate the iron for two > >applications? > ----------------------- > >It is very difficult to get the > >fabric to lay perfectly flat and closely match a rivet head. Usually > >there will be a small bubble around the rivet. Will all look nice and > >smooth, but there will be a small area around the rivet head where the > >fabric DOES NOT contact the structure. Sometimes one can make it better > >with the tip of the iron, but there are limits. > ----------------------- > No you don't have to reset your iron. This stuff is thin, like wax > paper know you might think this is stupid, but I drilled a hole through my > small iron (model iron) just a little bigger than the rivet heads, near the > "pointy end" and tapered the bottom out smooth with a "step drill" (the > small iron is soft metal). > You can rotate the iron around the rivets to shrink the fabric. Helps a > "little" bit. Didn't hurt the iron. > You know that if you set your iron too high, it will shrink your > finishing tapes into all kind of weird shapes. > > As far as Irons. Here's what I did. > 1. Go to Sears or somewhere they will take stuff back-buy 3 different irons. > 2. You can't tell which one will "hold" the best temp. by the price. > 3. Buy yourself one of those "pocket thermometers" (you know, those little > "round things") from Aircraft Spruce or from a model shop. > 4. Calibrate the irons-see below. > 5. Keep the best one (the one that really "holds the temps.) and take the > others back-"you wife didn't like them". > 6. Calibrate your irons with the candy therms and cross-check with the > "pocket therm", > mine matched almost exactly. > 7. Now before you use your iron each time, set the "pocket therm" on the > iron turned upside down of course. It only takes about 15 seconds > to check it & no silicone to > wipe off every time. > > P.S. you can really spend too much time on this if your're not careful, but > the only thing most people are ever going to see is your covering job and > your paint. Some really excellent ideas here. One thing to watch for when calibrating your iron. I have been told that some (many?) of the new irons now being sold have a "safety" feature to protect you from your own stupidity. If it is in the horizontal orientation without movement for a set period of time, it will automatically shut off. This is in case one is ironing shirts and leaves the iron sitting on the shirt while going to the phone, etc. Would be good for that purpose but would present problems when doing a full calibration for covering purposes. Should be obvious if you get this kind, as after a bit the temp would only go down rather than cycle between a high and a low. Incidentally, in case one does not know it, leaving the iron sitting on polyester fabric without movement presents no problems at all. The heat shrink apropriate for a given temperature occures almost instantly when hit with that temp. Continued exposure to that temp will do absolutely nothing more. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: pressure test the 582
Has anyone on this list pressure tested a 582 to check the crankcase seal integrity? I need to know what details are involved (I understand the general method), due to the presence of the rotary valve. I'd like to pressure check the fornt and rear crankcase hsections independently, if that's possible... Machines are cruel to me this week. If I don't miss my guess I have the mag-end bearings and seal out on a 100-hour 582. symptoms are : front cylinder EGT 100 degrees warmer than rear at any RPM above idle, subtle low-frequency vibration in airframe and prop has been eliminated as source of vibe, power still unaffected. Checked; plugs changed, all four coils firing disabled the HAC, plugged carb vac port gearbox checked for play, changed oil, no metal particles found examined cyls for carbon buildup, seemed pretty clean, will be checking rings tonite thru exhaust ports prop methodically balanced (each of 3 blades weighed, cg found to be equal on all 3, weight added at cg on 2 blades, static check last) carbs dismantled, needles tite and same, floats checked, bowls dumped, screen in place. sync'ed mechanically EGT connections checked OK, cannot swap senders due to rust of senders in manifold, will work more on this no visible leaks anywhere on engine or gearbox Plan: may swap carbs eliminate fuel pump diaphram as possible leak source (powered by front crankcase, right?) pull exhaust, examine rings for freeness pressure check crankcase get EGT senders out and swap them send for a 582 rebuild how-to video (any suggestions?) pray (probably too late for this project) Bruce, buy the Jabiru. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vic Worthington" <vicw(at)vcn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/15/00
Date: Jan 16, 2000
Try this on a scrap of tubing that has some straight and some curve. When applying finish tape cut a piece of tape about 6 inches longer than the surface to be covered. Mark the center line, length wise,of the tape with a soft pencil. Paint the apex of the straight portion of the tube with a thin line of glue. Let it tack. Place the tape on the apex of the tube using the pencil line as a guide. Activate the glue by painting the pencil line. Do not do the curved portion at this time but glue down the tape on the straight portion on both sides of the curve. Stop about 2 inches before the curve starts on each side. When set, glue down both side of the tape on the straight portion again stopping about 2 inches before the curve starts. Let it set. Now iron the curved portion until it fits nicely. That little iron the model airplane builders use works great. The tape should fit almost as thought it was glued down. Take your time and work top and bottom of the tube. Glue down the curved portion by painting thought the tape and working glue beneath the tape with your brush. By they way, I don't use bias tape. I found it harder to work with than using the above method. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thompson, Todd" <todd.thompson(at)dsl.net>
Subject: More and More Covering
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Rather than teflon - which is hard to find - you can use parchment paper. This is "baking paper" you can find in the local Grand Union/Stop&Shop in rolls and works great as a barrier from your iron. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: coolant pressure problem, conclusion
To follow-up with everyone on the coolant-pressure thing, three items I am fairly sure of at this point: ONE: A wise man wrote me and pointed out that it is common for the pressure in the cooling system to be higher than cap rating until the initial opening of the cap. (My interpretation of what he said is:) The cap rubber seal disk gets pressed down by the cap spring and is warmed by the coolant naturally and softens to mate quite well, then the engine is shut down and vacuum in the system forms, further pulling the cap down and holding it there while it cools, sort of "glueing" it in place. So, the next day you warm up the engine and the pressure has to overcome the cap spring, AND the pressure (apparently 2-4 lbs additional judging by my experience) of the cap seal "glued" to the radiator neck. Different caps may act differently due to different rubber compounds. Coolant type and additives may also affect this situation, I think. I verified this by putting a generous coating of Triflow on the cap seal, and the next operation of the engine produced normal cap pressure, no warmup peak. I then did an experiment with a crude Teflon seal disk I made. The Teflon worked well too, no stickyness but my quick design did not include the small vacuum-relief valve which allows coolant to flow back into the system after cooldown. I will keep working toward producing a full-featured Teflon solution, and do some long term tests on it. TWO: The use of the non-silicate antifreeze (and distilled water) seems very important. I will be switching soon. Experience seems to be showing that the RV shaft seal problem will be minimized with it. I am also looking for some Prestone water pump lube additive (even though the guys at NAPA say that "all new coolant has it in there already"), it may help the seal stay more pliable, less sticky. And I will change coolant at least yearly. THREE: I modified one of my caps to produce a lower spring pressure. I did this by simple bending of the spring, and now have a cap that produces 12 psi working pressure in my system now, as opposed to 15 psi it used to produce (my measurement point adds 2 psi of static "head" to the actual system working pressure). Summer heat may prove I need more pressure to maintain cooling capacity, we'll see. But the point is, I can choose the pressure it runs by carefull spring tuning. More experimentation. Maybe have a summer and a winter cap. Easy to change. Maybe I won't feel the need to change, if the Teflon seal disk works out. It is the peaks I am worried about. When they get to 18-19 psi, I get worried. Rotax Company, are you listening? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
> >One thing to watch for when calibrating your iron. I have been told >that some (many?) of the new irons now being sold have a "safety" >feature to protect you from your own stupidity. If it is in the >horizontal orientation without movement for a set period of time, it >will automatically shut off. Should be obvious if you get >this kind, as after a bit the temp would only go down rather than cycle >between a high and a low. Gil's right-make sure you don't buy one of those automatic shut off irons. If the "beeps" don't drive you crazy, the temp. fluctions will. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KHe1144783(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: Re: Jabiru
Dallas: I have a 56X43 Props Inc. wood prop I got for my Jabiru because no one made anything with a medium chord profile in composite. Now Ivo has a new medium chord prop which is very well suited for the Jabiru. Mine is not even running yet but my research suggests (Prince props) 54X43 wood prop ! Now thats small. I plan to get the Ivo as soon as I wear out the wood one in the rain or rocks. Shouldnt take too long. Kris Henkel Titan builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com>
Subject: Re: coolant pressure problem, conclusion
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Forgot to mention Havoline also makes extended life--the water pump lubricant is approx. ($6.92) $7 with tax.--available at Wal Mart. Lindy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru
> >Dallas: I have a 56X43 Props Inc. wood prop I got for my Jabiru because no >one made anything with a medium chord profile in composite. Now Ivo has a new >medium chord prop which is very well suited for the Jabiru. Mine is not even >running yet but my research suggests (Prince props) 54X43 wood prop ! Now >thats small. I plan to get the Ivo as soon as I wear out the wood one in the >rain or rocks. Shouldnt take too long. Kris Henkel > Don't sell the wood prop short. They have been used for years on airplanes with minimal maintenance. Wood props can be optimized in the twist to make them more efficient. Composites hawe a compromised twist, sort of one size fits all. I flew a wood prop for years with no maintenance except to rebalance every couple years when I would refinish it with new varnish. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
>> As far as Irons. Here's what I did. >> 1. Go to Sears or somewhere they will take stuff back-buy 3 different irons. >> 2. You can't tell which one will "hold" the best temp. by the price. >> 3. Buy yourself one of those "pocket thermometers" (you know, those little >> "round things") from Aircraft Spruce or from a model shop. >> 4. Calibrate the irons-see below. >> 5. Keep the best one (the one that really "holds the temps.) and take the >> others back-"you wife didn't like them". >> 6. Calibrate your irons with the candy therms and cross-check with the >> "pocket therm", >> mine matched almost exactly. >> 7. Now before you use your iron each time, set the "pocket therm" on the >> iron turned upside down of course. It only takes about 15 seconds >> to check it & no silicone to >> wipe off every time. gosh I just went to the nearest garage sale and picked one up for 2 bucks. Wife used to get pissed when I would gum up her good one. I used my cht guage to check the temp and went at it. I think if you put on the fabric too snug to begin with it will affect the final project more than if the iron wanders a bit on the temps. Ever hear of someone not being able to use the final heat setting on the fabric because the airframe was starting to bend under medium heat? I bet everyone on the list has had experienced that. This is worse than having inconsistant heat control. It was recommended to us to put an extra 2" tube under the fabric as we were covering the wing and then slide it out after. Makes a real baggy fit but it shrinks right down and you can use the final heat setting where the fabric will set properly and drum tight. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net>
Subject: vls chute
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Looking for the best deal on a BRS VLS 500 system anybody know who to call thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: Erich Weaver 805-683-0200 <sbaew(at)dames.com>
Subject: Re: vls chute
At the time I ordered my VLS-500, I found very little difference in prices between the suppliers for a brand new one. I guess you could always check the Ultralight want ads fo someone who wants to part with a pre-purchased (but "unused") one, but these seem to be rare. I believe I got mine from airstar discount sales (1-800-247-7827)and saved a litle bit over Aircraft Spruce et. al. Probably the most significant thing you can save on is sales tax, provided you are ordering from out of state, etc so check on that too. Im not sure of the current status, but there was a very long wait when I ordered mine. Look into this at the time of ordering. Some distributors have standing orders from BRS for specific chutes, and you may be able to save time by having them alter their existing order from BRS. For example, if their existing order is for 3 canister models, BRS can easily change one of them to a VLS rather than fill the cannister order first, and then have a second order for your VLS. That request for an order change will have to come from the distributor however, so it may require some brown nosing. Did I make that all clear? The installation instructions from BRS that I got for a Mrk III simply wouldnt work on mine, and I ended up devising my own installation. Thats OK with BRS, as long as you send them pictures to review so they can approve it and give you your 1-year warranty. I also had to extensively modify my wing gap seal. Nothing seems to be easy when it comes to completing your ultralight, especially when you are waiting for that first flight. Good luck. If I can do it, everybody can. Erich Weaver ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: vls chute
I also had to extensively > modify my wing gap seal. > Erich Weaver Erich and Gang: I think the biggest change for my MK III and the 2d Chantz was to add one rib to make a bay for pack tray, then cut a door in the lexan for the chute to exit and a little round hole for the rocket nose to stick out the top. It has been a long time so I maybe suffering from CRS and illussions again. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BILLBEAM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: Re: Jabiru
Woody, A thought on props. A composite prop will shatter into broom straw if it hits something solid, like the ground, whereas the wood is much stronger and will resist the sudden stop. The engine torque would most likely damage the gear box or twist the crank shaft causing expensive engine repair. Just a thought... Bill FS Ky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru
> A thought on props. A composite prop will shatter into broom straw > if it hits something solid, like the ground, whereas the wood is much > stronger and will resist the sudden stop. The engine torque would most > likely damage the gear box or twist the crank shaft causing expensive > engine repair. > > Just a thought... > > Bill > FS > Ky Evening Bill and Kolbers: Don't know where you got your thoughts from, hehehe, but I think you have them backasswards as we say down here in Alabama, or you might just be 180 degrees out. I have experience destroying wooden props, but so far have been unable to destroy my Warp Drive Solid Carbon Fiber Prop. Through the years as my wooden props hit the ground in the Ultrastar, as all kinds of FOD fell off the aircraft and went directly to and thru the prop, the wooden blades readily came apart. On one occassion a GSC 3 blade wooden prop came apart on its own accord. I didn't have to coax it to splinter. On the other hand, I cut more Alaska brush on one aborted landing than the county right away crew cut in a week. Only damage, lotsa green stuff on the leading edges of all three blades, and the leading edges of everything on the airplane that got drug thru that stuff. Another time I put a 1 1/2 inch piece of steel exhaust pipe with one 180 deg bend and one 90 bend thru the Warp Drive at full throttle over Prattville, Alabama. Hope it did not hit anyone after it got batted back up and under the bottom of my "gold plated" Rotax 912 radiator. I flew about 15 miles to Wetumpka Airport and landed, fearing the worst. I had some vibration, but could not feel anything else the matter while flying. Upon inspection I found one blade had a chunk out of the leading edge, tiny little place, about like putting a small screw or washer thru a wooden prop. Fired it up and flew another 11 miles to my airstrip with no problem. Would not want to try those tests again with any other prop, bushes and exh pipe, and don't really want to do it with a Warp Drive either. I do not know of any UL prop that would have gotten you home afterwards, safely. One more thing about a Warp Drive. I witnessed a Rans S-12, 912 powered, Warp Drive 3 blade prop, no wings attached, but everything else that was supposed to be there was in place, except pilot, depart the front of a hangar where it was being worked on at WOT. Looked like a dragster blasting across the airport towards the east perimeter of pines. A couple hundred feet before it impacted the trees it hit a berm about 2 or 3 feet high, went airborne, rotated nose down so that the prop blades were horizontal. The blades hit a pine about 15 feet off the ground. One blade cut halfway thru a 6 to 8 inch diameter pine tree trunk before it broke off at the hub. That's tough. Luckily, no one was hurt except the owner's pride and pocket book. john h (get to see all kinds of exciting things flying ULs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 17, 2000
From: Richard <swidersk(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru
Hey Guys, I do know that a roll of toilet paper will shatter a wooden prop into thousands of pieces & tear the engine off your frame. Just a bad memory... Richard Swiderski BILLBEAM(at)aol.com wrote: > > Woody, > > A thought on props. A composite prop will shatter into broom straw > if it hits something solid, like the ground, whereas the wood is much > stronger and will resist the sudden stop. The engine torque would most > likely damage the gear box or twist the crank shaft causing expensive > engine repair. > > Just a thought... > > Bill > FS > Ky > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Re: PPC Fw: WHY AIRPLANES ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN
Date: Jan 17, 2000
WHY AIRPLANES ARE BETTER THAN WOMENJust for fun. Tim T. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Neff, Jr. ; ChrisE Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: PPC Fw: WHY AIRPLANES ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN From: "Ed Neff, Jr." <edneff(at)adams.net> WHY AIRPLANES ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN An airplane will kill you quickly...a woman takes her time. Airplanes like to do it inverted. Airplanes can be turned on by a flick of a switch. An airplane's thrust to weight ratio is higher. An airplane does not get mad if you "touch and go". An airplane does not object to a preflight inspection. Airplanes come with manuals. Airplanes have strict weight and balance limits. You can fly an airplane any time of the month. Airplanes don't come with in-laws. Airplanes don't whine unless something is really wrong. Airplanes don't care about how many other airplanes you have flown. When flying, you and your airplane both arrive at the same time. Airplanes don't mind if you look at other airplanes, or if you buy airplane magazines. It's OK to use tie downs on your airplane. Subscribe: powerchutes-subscribe(at)onelist.com Unsubscribe: powerchutes-unsubscribe(at)onelist.com Web Page: http://www.powerchutes.com Hearme Chat: http://www.powerchutes.com/popup_simple.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: Dell Vinal <zoper(at)mint.net>
Subject: water pressure
The news that the caps stick a little after sitting is enlightening. Part of my preflights will be to remove the cap and replace. This should prevent the opening spike.. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 17, 2000
Subject: Re: More and More Covering
wood wrote: > > > >> As far as Irons. Here's what I did. > >> 1. Go to Sears or somewhere they will take stuff back-buy 3 different irons. > >> 2. You can't tell which one will "hold" the best temp. by the price. > >> 3. Buy yourself one of those "pocket thermometers" (you know, those little > >> "round things") from Aircraft Spruce or from a model shop. > >> 4. Calibrate the irons-see below. > >> 5. Keep the best one (the one that really "holds the temps.) and take the > >> others back-"you wife didn't like them". > >> 6. Calibrate your irons with the candy therms and cross-check with the > >> "pocket therm", > >> mine matched almost exactly. > >> 7. Now before you use your iron each time, set the "pocket therm" on the > >> iron turned upside down of course. It only takes about 15 seconds > >> to check it & no silicone to > >> wipe off every time. > > gosh I just went to the nearest garage sale and picked one up for 2 bucks. > Wife used to get pissed when I would gum up her good one. I used my cht > guage to check the temp and went at it. I think if you put on the fabric > too snug to begin with it will affect the final project more than if the > iron wanders a bit on the temps. Ever hear of someone not being able to use > the final heat setting on the fabric because the airframe was starting to > bend under medium heat? I bet everyone on the list has had experienced that. > This is worse than having inconsistant heat control. It was recommended to > us to put an extra 2" tube under the fabric as we were covering the wing and > then slide it out after. Makes a real baggy fit but it shrinks right down > and you can use the final heat setting where the fabric will set properly > and drum tight. > > Woody Keep in mind that at 375 F polyester starts to relax and loosen. Go a bit above that and it will deteriorate and rapidly lose strength. You might not immediately notice it until the day you stress it a bit in a sharp pull up, etc. You really do want to be sure that at the 350 F setting it will not approach he upper allowable limit when at the high end of the cycle. As for installing the fabric too tight, this is certainly possible. PolyFiber manual, says to allow "about an inch of slack" as I recall. Your idea of putting some kind of "spacer" in place sounds good to me, since it is difficult to estimate visually. I prefer to do an additional heat shrink step at 325 instead of going from 300 directly to 350 for just that reason. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 18, 2000
Subject: Re: water pressure
Yup, that would probably work. You will get a little coolant coming out dribbling down your arm though. Its too bad we can just pull a tab that is connected to the internal disk (while cap is fully installed), pull up to pop the seal without removing the cap. Hey, it seems like some car rad caps had this, a lever that removed rad pressure. Jim Dell Vinal on 01/18/2000 05:58:30 AM Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Kolb-List: water pressure The news that the caps stick a little after sitting is enlightening. Part of my preflights will be to remove the cap and replace. This should prevent the opening spike.. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: pressure test the 582
> >Has anyone on this list pressure tested a 582 to check the crankcase seal >integrity? I need to know what details are involved (I understand the >general method), due to the presence of the rotary valve. I'd like to >pressure check the fornt and rear crankcase hsections independently, if >that's possible... If you buy a tester from CPS, it comes with various sized rubber plugs. You have to remove the rotary valve and then you block off the intake opening behind the rotary valve with a plug to seal up that cylinder. If you don't remove the rotary valve, it leaks air around it. Three of us in the chapter split the cost and each share the tester. The CPS tester works quite well. If you get one, go ahead and make up a metal brace to hold the intake plug in place and then just keep it in the box for next year. You can angle it across the rotary valve cavity to hold the plug, and anchor it with the regular bolts. We use a small sheet of rubber to cover the exhaust port, and back it up with a metal backer plate to keep it from flexing. A tester is a worthwhile investment. The crankcase on my 532 had never been split, and had a small leak ever since new down in a corner behind the mag, not bad enough to affect the EGT's, but just enough to keep the mag cavity a little oily. Found it right away with the tester. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Discount Sales
Just a word to the wise: two years ago, just before heading to Oshkosh, I ordered new crankseals, exhaust springs, and points for my 532, and one of the wingmen ordered a helmet/headset combo for his Drifter from Airstar Discount sales. The helmet arrived with no liner, he made a phone call, and the liner arrived separate, obviously broken and crudely taped back together with strapping tape. He sent the whole mess back and demanded a new one, got it just before we left. Several of the exhaust springs I got were obviously used, stretched and sacked out. The letter I sent requesting replacements or a refund was unanswered. The seals were not Rotax parts, I used them anyway, and changed them as soon as I got back from Osh. They were in the process of coming apart, the rubber in the middle of the seal had detached from the metal. The points went bad in route with less than 14 hours on them. Save your money when you can, but inspect your parts closely... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > >At the time I ordered my VLS-500, I found very little difference in >prices between the suppliers for a brand new one. I guess you could >always check the Ultralight want ads fo someone who wants to part with a >pre-purchased (but "unused") one, but these seem to be rare. > >I believe I got mine from airstar discount sales (1-800-247-7827)and >saved a litle bit over Aircraft Spruce et. al. >Erich Weaver ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 18, 2000
Subject: Oil pump-arm return
HI Gang, Had problem with oil pump metering arm not returning completely when throttle was retarded to idle. Found that the pump itself had some slight internal friction at half way point. Since replacement parts are not available, I purchased a new pump and cable. After installation and adjustment the problem still exists. In fact it's worse. Apparently the spring on the arm is not strong enough to overcome the slight friction in the cable. I have tweaked the tab where the adjuster mounts to improve the angle of cable to arm to no avail. I suspect this problem is common and perhaps goes unnoticed by some. I'd be interested to know the results of others doing the following simple test: 1. With throttle at idle, check the position of the arm. It should be at the mark if you have set up to factory spec. If you have set up to CPS's Mike Strattman's recommendation the throttle should be at the 3000 rpm point when the marks line up. (Don't know why he recommends that.) 2. Go back to cockpit and cycle the throttle from idle to full and back. Now check the position of the arm. If it is not aligned with the mark you have the same problem as I do. Give it a little tweak with your finger and it'll go back to the mark. I have the oil injection cable with a 24 1/2 inch sheath going to the 3:1 splitter. Carb cables return to idle OK. Cable makes a vertical turn of around 190 degrees from splitter to oil pump. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru
> > >Woody, > >A thought on props. A composite prop will shatter into broom straw >if it hits something solid, like the ground, whereas the wood is much >stronger and will resist the sudden stop. The engine torque would most >likely damage the gear box or twist the crank shaft causing expensive >engine repair. > >Just a thought... > >Bill >FS >Ky If you have a prop strike on a Kolb you have a lot more to worry about than engine damage. I would have thought the wood prop would have shattered better. Any prop strike calls for a tear down. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: Ole Noetnes <onoetnes(at)online.no>
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
WGeorge737(at)aol.com wrote: > > > HI Gang, > > Had problem with oil pump metering arm not returning completely when throttle > was retarded to idle. Found that the pump itself had some slight internal > friction at half way point. Since replacement parts are not available, I > purchased a new pump and cable. > > After installation and adjustment the problem still exists. In fact it's > worse. Apparently the spring on the arm is not strong enough to overcome the > slight friction in the cable. I have tweaked the tab where the adjuster > mounts to improve the angle of cable to arm to no avail. > > I suspect this problem is common and perhaps goes unnoticed by some. I'd be > interested to know the results of others doing the following simple test: > > 1. With throttle at idle, check the position of the arm. It should be at the > mark if you have set up to factory spec. If you have set up to CPS's Mike > Strattman's recommendation the throttle should be at the 3000 rpm point when > the marks line up. (Don't know why he recommends that.) > > 2. Go back to cockpit and cycle the throttle from idle to full and back. Now > check the position of the arm. If it is not aligned with the mark you have > the same problem as I do. we had this question up on this list some time back. i did a check on our club's rans s-6, and i found the same problem. i then started the engine with the plane tied down and performed the same test cowling off, and had no problem. seems like the vibration from the engine makes the cables less prone to sticking. our engine/plane/cables have about 600 hrs on them. makes sense to keep the cables well lubricated though. ole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com>
Subject: Fw: BUG Ultralight Seminar in Real Video this Saturday
Date: Jan 18, 2000
Info--see web site at end of message to check your system Lindy LA-Lower Alabama ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hempy" <hempy(at)ket.org> ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:22 AM Subject: BUG Ultralight Seminar in Real Video this Saturday > > You asked for it, you got it! This weekend's Ultralight Safety Seminar > presented by the Bluegrass Ultralight Group (BUG) will be webcast live in > Real Video. For those that can't come in person, tune in starting 9 AM EST > this Saturday for the all-day event. You won't be able to win any of the > 100+ great prizes we're giving away, and you'll miss out on networking with > all the ultralight pilots that come from half a dozen states, but you will > receive the benefit of our top-notch speaker lineup! If you can't be here, > please join us on-line! > > I recommend visiting our web page at http://www.cvb-1.com/BUG to test your > Real Player installation...it does require a recent version of the player. > All up-to-the-minute details about the seminar can be found there. > > > Blue skies, > -dave > > ps. Please forward this message to other pilots who may be interested! > > - > David Hempy -- USUA Region 6 Representative (KY-IN-MI-OH) > ASC Trike BFI #BKY56 -- FAA Aviation Safety Counselor -- EAA #456510 > -- www.davidhempy.com -- (c)2000,DBH > Views expressed are not those of ASC, FAA or USUA unless explicitly stated. - > > This message brought to you by the UL-Reps mailing list. > This post is in no way representative of or affiliated with > the United States Ultralight Association. > For more info, please write to ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: pressure test 582
>Has anyone on this list pressure tested a 582 to check the crankcase seal >integrity? I need to know what details are involved (I understand the >general method), due to the presence of the rotary valve. I'd like to >pressure check the fornt and rear crankcase sections independently, if >that's possible...<<<<<< a pressure test may prove to be good while a vacuum test may show a leak. been there and done that on a snowmobile engine. pull a vacuum test boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Herren" <wmdherren(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Homer
Date: Jan 18, 2000
There's a good article in EAA's Experimenter mag Jan 2000 "Meet Homer Kolb" that I hope all Kolb listers get to see. Bill in Lousyana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Prop Strike
Hi Kolbers: One of my good friends and fellow Kolb Sling Shot pilot, Ronnie Collins, suffered injuries yesterday afternoon when he inadvertently backed into the three blade Warp Drive Prop as his 582 idled for warmup. He was checking something under the left wing. With his attention diverted, he backed into the moving prop. Luckily, he received serious lacerations to the rear of his right tricep without breaking any bones or any permanent nerve damage. He was hit with three blade tips before being knocked to the ashphalt. Another of our friends was in the area with a cell phone. Shortly, an ambulance arrived and took Ronnie to a local hospital where surgeons to put him back together again. I believe Ronnie was released and sent home late this afternoon. When I talked to him this afternoon he had some words of wisdom for all aviators. No matter how long you have been flying do not take anything for granted. A moments lapse of attention can get one into a lot of trouble. Always be aware of a rotating prop when moving around the outside of the aircraft. Best yet, do not move around the aircraft if the prop is in motion. Ronnie gave me permission to share his experience with you all in hopes that his misfortune might prevent someone else from suffering the same tragedy. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Strike
Date: Jan 18, 2000
John, your friend is very very lucky (relatively speaking) to have been *backing* into the prop. Hope he has a speedy recovery. Geoff Thistlethwaite -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:09 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Prop Strike > >Hi Kolbers: > >One of my good friends and fellow Kolb Sling Shot pilot, >Ronnie Collins, suffered injuries yesterday afternoon when >he inadvertently backed into the three blade Warp Drive Prop >as his 582 idled for warmup. He was checking something >under the left wing. With his attention diverted, he backed >into the moving prop. Luckily, he received serious >lacerations to the rear of his right tricep without breaking >any bones or any permanent nerve damage. He was hit with >three blade tips before being knocked to the ashphalt. >Another of our friends was in the area with a cell phone. >Shortly, an ambulance arrived and took Ronnie to a local >hospital where surgeons to put him back together again. I >believe Ronnie was released and sent home late this >afternoon. When I talked to him this afternoon he had some >words of wisdom for all aviators. No matter how long you >have been flying do not take anything for granted. A >moments lapse of attention can get one into a lot of >trouble. Always be aware of a rotating prop when moving >around the outside of the aircraft. Best yet, do not move >around the aircraft if the prop is in motion. > >Ronnie gave me permission to share his experience with you >all in hopes that his misfortune might prevent someone else >from suffering the same tragedy. > >john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Hey George and gang: I have oil injection on my 582 also. I never have had a problem with it in 900 hours. I use a cable system and splitter that I designed for my particular purpose. I wanted the shortest cable length possible to eliminate cable slap. All injectors have the detent in the arm movement because of the change in oil supply ratio of the pump. It changes from 70 to 50/1 at this point. I suggest that your problem is like you suspect, in your injector cable or the splitter. I have found that all cables are not alike. Some have plastic sleeves some do not. The cable housing must have a liner of some type in order for the cable to move with the least amount of friction then your problem will most likely go away. Just my experience and my opinion of things that have worked for me. A group of us flyers, 14 in all, made a fly'round this past weekend. I traveled 511 miles 8.3 hours flight time landed 9 times at 5 different places Firehawk >Had problem with oil pump metering arm not returning completely when >throttle >was retarded to idle. Found that the pump itself had some slight internal >friction at half way point. Since replacement parts are not available, I >purchased a new pump and cable. > > >Bill George >Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: pressure test 582
I will try that, thanks! I will have to remove the RV assembly first though. Pressure test worked OK, loss was about 3/4 psi per minute from 9psi to 5 psi, then held 5 psi. I don't know if that's good or bad. I will try the vac test next, after I get my hands on a Rotax flywheel puller. Jim b young on 01/18/2000 07:33:15 PM Please respond to kolb-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Kolb-List: pressure test 582 >Has anyone on this list pressure tested a 582 to check the crankcase seal >integrity? I need to know what details are involved (I understand the >general method), due to the presence of the rotary valve. I'd like to >pressure check the fornt and rear crankcase sections independently, if >that's possible...<<<<<< a pressure test may prove to be good while a vacuum test may show a leak. been there and done that on a snowmobile engine. pull a vacuum test boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: 582 pressure, tools
Well I did the 582 crankcase pressure-leak test last night. I put 9psi into the fuel pump pulse port, with the carb sockets plugged, the exhaust ports blocked with rubber gaskets, and spark plugs installed. Results: Leakage at the rate of 3/4 psi per minute, from 9 psi to 5 psi, it held 5 psi. Is this good or bad? While doing this test, the coolant pressure gauge was also monitored and showed no increase, so the head gaskets must be OK. Someone suggested doing a vacuum test also. I will be able to do that tonight. That one will require the removal of the RV assembly. I have 22 inches of vacuum available, hopefully that is enough. I guess to put this issue to rest I need to pull the flywheel and coils, in order to spray soapy water on the front seal and actually see leakage in the form of bubbles. Once I get that far, the engine will be about half-way dismantled. Boy it is depressing to take stuff apart. The Rotax tool list needed is growing. Anyone have Rotax tools for sale, collecting dust?, quick money! Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2000
From: "Richard Neilsen " <NeilsenR(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Before Covering
As I was listening to all this good covering info I remembered a small thing I did on my plane. I looked at a lot of Kolbs before I built mine and decided I didn't like the looks of the leading edge of the wing were it transitions to the much smaller wing tip tube. Also the leading edge of the rudder to the top loop/ trailing edge. In every case I built a light gage aluminum faring that tapers from the large tube to the smaller tube. The faring is made from a small piece of sheet aluminum riveted to the larger tube. It serves only as a cosmetic effect and eliminates the end of the leading edge tube from being the stress point on the fabric. Rick Neilsen VW powered MKIII 20hrs. Just finished a 4 into 1 exhaust system and am working on rejeting my Weber carbs. The OAT temps just peaked above 20 degrees for the first time in a week so I was able to get a test run in yesterday. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BILLBEAM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: prop strike
Agree on any prop strike callilng for tear down. My Power Fin hit the dirt at WOT, and shattered all three blades. Tear down revealed no damage to engine or gear box. A wooden prop is more ridged and I believe I would have needed expensive repairs. Bill FS KY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BILLBEAM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: prop strike
John, You need to write a book on all these thrills. Sounds to me like you are a cat with few lives left. HA. Mine was a Power Fin prop. Perhaps they are different composition. All I know is that I came up with three little Whisk Brooms attached to the hub. It looked like strands of fiberglass. D. Day tore the engine down and gave it an A++. I had expected a crank or gear box parts at least. I did a little tree trimming with the same prop in the back yard. I was watching the wing tips and not paying attention to the limbs above. The neighbors thought I had bought a new type lawn mower from Tim Allen on Home Improvement. Oh well, thats part of the learning experience. Just that some lessons are more expensive than others. Bill FS KY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Bill, Is the arm sticking when the motor is running or when stopped? With the motor stopped, and the lever pulled up to the WOT position, the internal crank connected to the lever is up and in contact with the springloaded piston. The resistance felt maybe the oilpressure buildup that is not released due to the valve cylinder not turning and opening the the outlet channel which can only be done by the motor running or cranking. ie, the piston and valve are temporarely out of phase and the pump will correct this as soon as it and the motor starts running again. The position and amount of sticking will depend on where the pumpcycle was when the engine stopped. This pump and lever design will only function correctly when the engine is running. If the lever does not return to the idle position with the engine off and the trottle moved to the idle position after engine stop, this is due to the internal spring loaded piston not catching up with the lever position untill the engine starts up again. WARNING: Do not change this external spring! The external spring has to be weak so that it does not interfere with the internal spring's function which is to insure the full pump stroke during every cycle. Frank Reynen MarkIII@565 ser#022 Subject: Kolb-List: Oil pump-arm return HI Gang, Had problem with oil pump metering arm not returning completely when throttle was retarded to idle. Found that the pump itself had some slight internal friction at half way point. Since replacement parts are not available, I purchased a new pump and cable. After installation and adjustment the problem still exists. In fact it's worse. Apparently the spring on the arm is not strong enough to overcome the slight friction in the cable. I have tweaked the tab where the adjuster mounts to improve the angle of cable to arm to no avail. I suspect this problem is common and perhaps goes unnoticed by some. I'd be interested to know the results of others doing the following simple test: 1. With throttle at idle, check the position of the arm. It should be at the mark if you have set up to factory spec. If you have set up to CPS's Mike Strattman's recommendation the throttle should be at the 3000 rpm point when the marks line up. (Don't know why he recommends that.) 2. Go back to cockpit and cycle the throttle from idle to full and back. Now check the position of the arm. If it is not aligned with the mark you have the same problem as I do. Give it a little tweak with your finger and it'll go back to the mark. I have the oil injection cable with a 24 1/2 inch sheath going to the 3:1 splitter. Carb cables return to idle OK. Cable makes a vertical turn of around 190 degrees from splitter to oil pump. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: pressure test 582
> >a pressure test may prove to be good while a vacuum test may >show a leak. been there and done that on a snowmobile >engine. pull a vacuum test > >boyd > Rubber seals hold pressure one way better than others. Sort of like a one way valve. The seal is installed to hold pressure in the crankcase. Lowering the pressure in the case will force atmospheric pressure past the seals (approx 14 lbs pressure). If the seals are holding 5 lbs I would say they are good. You should not pump up past 7 lbs. Y'ALL WRITE BACK NOW YA HEAR? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: pressure test 582
>(approx 14 lbs pressure). > If the seals are holding 5 lbs I would say they are good. You should not >pump up past 7 lbs. >Y'ALL WRITE BACK NOW YA HEAR? > I don't know where that last bit came from. Could there be another virus going around? People read that on the end of my emails they are going to think I am John Hauck. Y'ALL WRITE BACK NOW YA HEAR? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: pressure test 582
>(approx 14 lbs pressure). > If the seals are holding 5 lbs I would say they are good. You should not >pump up past 7 lbs. >Y'ALL WRITE BACK NOW YA HEAR? > I don't know where that last bit came from. Could there be another virus going around? People read that on the end of my emails they are going to think I am John Hauck. Sorry, it's me again. It was just my daughter foolin around with the signature settings of the email program. Scared me for a moment. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
In a message dated 1/19/00 9:39:33 AM, Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com writes: << Is the arm sticking when the motor is running or when stopped? With the motor stopped, and the lever pulled up to the WOT position, the internal crank connected to the lever is up and in contact with the springloaded piston. The resistance felt maybe the oilpressure buildup that is not released due to the valve cylinder not turning and opening the the outlet channel which can only be done by the motor running or cranking. ie, the piston and valve are temporarely out of phase and the pump will correct this as soon as it and the motor starts running again. The position and amount of sticking will depend on where the pumpcycle was when the engine stopped. This pump and lever design will only function correctly when the engine is running. >> Frank Thanks for the info. You are probably one of the few folks on the planet who have actually taken this thing apart to see how it works. Thank goodness. I see it on preflight. Of course the engine was at idle when it was last shut down. I have never looked at it with the engine running. I do know that the new pump arm was totally free before I installed it and the engine has not been tuned over yet, so it doesn't have any residual pressure inside. I remember reading a post on this subject (don't even know which list it was on) where a guy mentioned the problem to a Rotax factory rep and the rep told him to "put a rubber band on it." Got a small light spring today and tomorrow I'll pout it over the cable end to see how it works. Will let y'all know. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 19, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
In a message dated 1/19/00 11:08:41 AM, Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com writes: << There are only alignment marks on the lever for idle(3000rpm) and full throttle positions to insure that the pump output is properly slaved to the throttle control. >> Frank Do you set yours at 3000 rpm or at idle? Mine idles at about 2200. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim T99" <townsend(at)webound.com>
Subject: Get a server with a hard drive
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Never mind, www.onelist.com None of the hassles. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matronics Technical Support 925-606-1001 <support(at)matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:50 AM Subject: Complete Digest Text Found in Your Post... > You have included all or most of the Engines-List's Digest Post text in your > reply to the List. This is not recommended and your message has not > been forwarded to the List. In the future, please edit your reply > text to include only the portion you are directly responding to. > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Engines-List Administrator > > [This is an automated response.] > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Subject: 582 pressure
Well, here's the latest. I improved the caps over the carb sockets to make a better seal and now the 582 seems to hold air a lot better. It leaked from 7psi to 5psi in about six minutes, and then held 5psi much longer, was still 3psi three hours later. Also held 20" H2O vacuum for an hour (that's only 3/4 psi but it is all my pump will produce). Considering all the little places the air pressure could be escaping, I considered this to be quite good, but I have never done a pressure test before, so: I called a local Rotax snowmobile dealer/mechanic to ask one of their techs "how much leakage is normal if the front seal is out", but they don't ever do pressure checks at all ! so he did not know what is normal for leakage rate. He stated "if there is any leaking oil from the mag end, pull it apart and put seals in it and check bearings carefully". I might make another call to Ed Wilson and Co. at Leaf. It appears that the crankcase leakdown test may only identify moderate to major leaks, not small leaks. That is unfortunate, if it could detect minor leaks better it could be a good early-warning diagnostic. Also, from this experience I would say the EGT indication is more valuable in detecting trouble early. So, if you're buying instruments, put your money in the EGT. How about it, ANY ROTAX TOOLS FOR SALE OUT THERE? Bruce,Thanks, I will call you to meet up and maybe borrow/rent your flywheel puller. I gotta get a look in that mag end I guess. Hopefully will see oil oozing out while under pressure check, then splitting the case will seem worthwhile. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Bill, The full throttle position needs to align with the wide open marks on the pump arm as the main cable adjustment. The pump arm was configured to match with the Bing carbs slider movement by Rotax since they deliver the carbs together with the engine originally .The design of the pump slaving is such that only one point can be successfully aligned and that should be the WOT position. The idle position is more like a checkpoint and only needs to be close. This is only there in case you have different carb setup IMHO. I remember on my 582 setup that at 2200rpm, the arm was slightly past the idle mark alignment with the cable tight and I saw many times that the arm had not returned to this spot after shutting engine down but I was not concerned by it. Frank Reynen MKIII@565hrs Subject: Re: RE: Kolb-List: Oil pump-arm return In a message dated 1/19/00 11:08:41 AM, Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com writes: << There are only alignment marks on the lever for idle(3000rpm) and full throttle positions to insure that the pump output is properly slaved to the throttle control. >> Frank Do you set yours at 3000 rpm or at idle? Mine idles at about 2200. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/19/00
Rubber seals hold pressure one way better than others. Sort of like a one way valve. The seal is installed to hold pressure in the crankcase. Lowering the pressure in the case will force atmospheric pressure past the seals (approx 14 lbs pressure). If the seals are holding 5 lbs I would say they are good. You should not pump up past 7 lbs. Y'ALL WRITE BACK NOW YA HEAR? during the compression cycle the crankcase is pulling a vacuum to pull new air and fuel in from the carb. during the power cycle the crankcase is pressurized getting ready to pump the fuel and air into the cylinder. so both a pressure and vacuum test are needed. if the seal holds pressure but wont hold a vacuums the mixture will go lean. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 01/19/00
> >during the compression cycle the crankcase is pulling a >vacuum to pull new air and fuel in from the carb. during >the power cycle the crankcase is pressurized getting ready >to pump the fuel and air into the cylinder. so both a >pressure and vacuum test are needed. if the seal holds >pressure but wont hold a vacuums the mixture will go lean. >boyd > It will be sucking from the point of least resistance. That big hole the carb fits on. there would not be that much sucked past the seals to worry about if you consider the ratio of intake port size to max clearance around a seal. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
In a message dated 1/20/00 8:43:15 AM, Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com writes: << The full throttle position needs to align with the wide open marks on the pump arm as the main cable adjustment. The pump arm was configured to match with the Bing carbs slider movement by Rotax since they deliver the carbs together with the engine originally .The design of the pump slaving is such that only one point can be successfully aligned and that should be the WOT position. >> Frank, Good to know. I tried the spring thing today but by now the cable had a teeny kink in it from all of the offs and ons. Tomorrow I have to trek to the big city so plan to visit a motorcycle shop and see if I can find a higher quality cable with less friction. After I removed the cable I checked the arm again and it freely returns. Will keep all posted. Bill George Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
I have found that bicycle shops sell a 1/16"cable that is very smooth and slides very well. I replace the ends that come on it with the cable ends that CPS sells. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) Tomorrow I have to trek to the big >city so plan to visit a motorcycle shop and see if I can find a higher >quality cable with less friction. After I removed the cable I checked the arm >again and it freely returns. Will keep all posted. > >Bill George >Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2000
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: kolb prices
ok, here we go. I have been monitering the kolb list for about eight months now and find it very informative. I'am non-flyer, non-buyer at the present time. however I have been looking at the kolb firestar for about just over a year now and I must admit I'am very impressed with this heavy ultralight. probably because all the good story's john h. writes and everyone else. here are my thoughts. I contacted the kolb co. in phoenixville, pa. oct. of 1998 and requested the info. pack on all the kolb ultralights. I received it shortly and looked over the price sheets on the firestar single seat version. looking under ordering details, one of the bullets states prices effective for aircraft purchased after july 15th, 1998. I thought ok, thats normal. the firestar package I was looking at was kit #1: contains wings and tail; $2,995.00; kit #2; polyfiber covering; $495.00: kit #3: fuselage cage & ect. $3,050.00: for a subtotal of $ 6,540.00; I was going to get the 503 engine which at the time was $3,505.00 for a grand total of $10,045.00. I thought ok, thats reasonable and in the ballpark for the ultralights that are on the market today. but here is what I'am frustrated about after visiting the new kolb aircraft co. at oshkosh this past summer. after I obtained some new price sheets and brochoures because mine were outdated somewhat, (takes me awhile to make a decision ya!!! know) so after looking and comparing prices from year to year, I found out this. the same firestar prices I looked at in oct. of 1998, were quite a bit different than the prices of july at oshkosh 1999. only nine months had passed but the new kolb co. had evolved. prices that is. now; kit #1; wings and tail; $3,299.00 up $300.00 from last year; ok I can live with 9.89% inflation; ouch!!!. now they have two airframe kits instead of two hm!!! whats missing. the 503 engine this year is $3,775.00; up $270.00 from eight months ago. again increase of almost 10.2%. now as far as the covering goes I think I have to order that from R&R I believe, at a cost of $495.00 for the firestar. I which is a wash because kolb deducted that off the list. my $10,045.00 ultralight is now going to run me $10,768.00 and I have to get chute, gauges, paint, ect. which I can understand but at these increases I better buy it fast, who knows what the future holds for prices. all I know is maybe there distribution centers or if they order direct from manufactures has raised there prices, or maybe not. I don't want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a simple man and it has gotten in the hands of big business. I can't blame them I would do the same if it were my co. too. if the aircraft sells then you adjust your price accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will still probably order a firestar soon, I have put it off long enough. I hope I have not offended anyone affiliated with or on this list. ok, let the comments begin. lar I like reading your postings. how ya!!! comin on the covering. gil, I enjoy reading your technical information. thanks, Gary r. voigt excelsior, mn. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2000
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: kolb prices
ok, here we go. I have been monitering the kolb list for about eight months now and find it very informative. I'am non-flyer, non-buyer at the present time. however I have been looking at the kolb firestar for about just over a year now and I must admit I'am very impressed with this heavy ultralight. probably because all the good story's john h. writes and everyone else. here are my thoughts. I contacted the kolb co. in phoenixville, pa. oct. of 1998 and requested the info. pack on all the kolb ultralights. I received it shortly and looked over the price sheets on the firestar single seat version. looking under ordering details, one of the bullets states prices effective for aircraft purchased after july 15th, 1998. I thought ok, thats normal. the firestar package I was looking at was kit #1: contains wings and tail; $2,995.00; kit #2; polyfiber covering; $495.00: kit #3: fuselage cage ect. $3,050.00: for a subtotal of $ 6,540.00; I was going to get the 503 engine which at the time was $3,505.00 for a grand total of $10,045.00. I thought ok, thats reasonable and in the ballpark for the ultralights that are on the market today. but here is what I'am frustrated about after visiting the new kolb aircraft co. at oshkosh this past summer. after I obtained some new price sheets and brochoures because mine were outdated somewhat, (takes me awhile to make a decision ya!!! know) so after looking and comparing prices from year to year, I found out this. the same firestar prices I looked at in oct. of 1998, were quite a bit different than the prices of july at oshkosh 1999. only nine months had passed but the new kolb co. had evolved. prices that is. now; kit #1; wings and tail; $3,299.00 up $300.00 from last year; ok I can live with 9.89% inflation; ouch!!!. now they have two airframe kits instead of two hm!!! whats missing. the 503 engine this year is $3,775.00; up $270.00 from eight months ago. again increase of almost 10.2%. now as far as the covering goes I think I have to order that from RR I believe, at a cost of $495.00 for the firestar. I which is a wash because kolb deducted that off the list. my $10,045.00 ultralight is now going to run me $10,768.00 and I have to get chute, gauges, paint, ect. which I can understand but at these increases I better buy it fast, who knows what the future holds for prices. all I know is maybe there distribution centers or if they order direct from manufactures has raised there prices, or maybe not. I don't want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a simple man and it has gotten in the hands of big business. I can't blame them I would do the same if it were my co. too. if the aircraft sells then you adjust your price accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will still probably order a firestar soon, I have put it off long enough. I hope I have not offended anyone affiliated with or on this list. ok, let the comments begin. lar, I like reading your postings. how ya!! comin on the covering. gil, I enjoy reading your responses on technical information. thanks, Gary r. voigt excelsior, mn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Subject: Re: kolb prices
> my $10,045.00 > ultralight is now going to run me $10,768.00 I just wish that everyone understood the time-value-of-money. The dollar you have today isn't what it was worth yesterday, and will be worth less tomorrow. J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Date: Jan 20, 2000
Well thanks Gary, sometimes I think maybe I talk too durned much, but nobody seems to bitch too much, so maybe they're all more patient than I expected. I thoroughly enjoy, and appreciate Gil's input too. He makes a lot of sense, along with several others. Now, if I could only remember to TAKE that advice. One Lister came up with the idea of using a squeeze bottle for the poly-tak, and that sounds like a real winner. I intended all week to liberate a couple of them from work, suffered various brain farts and attacks of cranius rectitis, and forgot all about them. Now I have to go buy them, and try it tomorrow. Question.......when brushing poly-tak, put on 2 coats, let them dry, put the fabric in place, and re-activate the 'tak with MEK, right ?? Works wonderfully well, you bet. But, with the squoze bottle, do you need 2 coats, or just 1 thicker coat ?? Tomorrow, ( my weekend is Fri. and Sat., then go in at 4 PM to Midnight on Sun. and Mon.), I plan on giving Vic's method of running finishing tape around the curves a try. Brilliant Lar went ahead and did the rudder 1st., which turns out to NOT be the proper sequence, and did fine - may I say Great ! ! !, ?? - until it came time for the finishing tape. I cut my own bias tape, folded it in 1/2, for a center line, and glued about a 1/4" around the perimeter of the curves, while stretching it tight, and let it dry. Then heated up the ole iron, and had at it. It had back at me, and taught me a little respect. Yes, you really do have to make the bias tape lots wider, and it looks much better if you taper the ends to fair it into the regular tapes. Then when shrinking it, be VERY careful ! ! ! Using the stir stick, like in the video, didn't work till I got the jack knife after it and tapered it down thin. My steam iron has holes that just happen to perfectly fit the rivets - thanks Possum - so I didn't have to drill the little iron. Works good, but I've still got some interesting little creases, folds, and wows around the curves that just don't cut it and will NOT come out. Think I'm gonna have to re-do them, and boy do I hate to, after all that fussing and fuming. Something like 10 hr. to cover the rudder through 1st coat of poly-brush. The right horiz. stab. went beautifully, till I started ironing it today after work, and realized I'd forgotten the re-inforcing tape on the edges of the gussets. Aaaarrrggghhhh ! ! ! Tom Margrave, who did such a beautiful, professional job on his FireFly is coming over this weekend to see if he can help me salvage some of it. Cross your fingers for me. That's about enuf ! ! ! I started this to say thanks for the compliment, and look what it led to. Those who know what they're doing, please bear with me. It just might help those coming up on this job, cause it ARE a miserable S.O.B. Mekky Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary r. voigt <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 7:58 PM Subject: Kolb-List: kolb prices > > ok, here we go. I have been monitering the kolb > list for about eight months now and find it very > informative. I'am non-flyer, > non-buyer at the present time. however I have been looking > at the kolb > firestar for about just over a year now and I must admit > I'am very impressed > with this heavy ultralight. probably because all the good > story's john > h. writes and everyone else. here are my thoughts. I > contacted the kolb > co. in phoenixville, pa. oct. of 1998 and requested the > info. pack on all > the kolb ultralights. I received it shortly and looked over > the price sheets > on the firestar single seat version. looking under ordering > details, one > of the bullets states prices effective for aircraft > purchased after july > 15th, 1998. I thought ok, thats normal. the firestar package > I was looking > at was kit #1: contains wings and tail; $2,995.00; kit #2; > polyfiber covering; > $495.00: kit #3: fuselage cage ect. $3,050.00: for a > subtotal of > $ 6,540.00; I was going to get the 503 engine which at the > time was $3,505.00 > for a grand total of $10,045.00. I thought ok, thats > reasonable and in > the ballpark for the ultralights that are on the market > today. but here > is what I'am frustrated about after visiting the new kolb > aircraft co. > at oshkosh this past summer. after I obtained some new price > sheets and > brochoures because mine were outdated somewhat, (takes me > awhile to make > a decision ya!!! know) so after looking and comparing prices > from year > to year, I found out this. the same firestar prices I looked > at in oct. > of 1998, were quite a bit different than the prices of july > at oshkosh > 1999. only nine months had passed but the new kolb co. had > evolved. prices > that is. now; kit #1; wings and tail; $3,299.00 up $300.00 > from last year; > ok I can live with 9.89% inflation; ouch!!!. now they have > two airframe > kits instead of two hm!!! whats missing. the 503 engine this > year is $3,775.00; > up $270.00 from eight months ago. again increase of almost > 10.2%. now as > far as the covering goes I think I have to order that from > RR I believe, > at a cost of $495.00 for the firestar. I which is a wash > because kolb deducted > that off the list. my $10,045.00 ultralight is now going to > run me $10,768.00 > and I have to get chute, gauges, paint, ect. which I can > understand but > at these increases I better buy it fast, who knows what the > future holds > for prices. all I know is maybe there distribution centers > or if they order > direct from manufactures has raised there prices, or maybe > not. I don't > want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a > simple man and > it has gotten in the hands of big business. I can't blame > them I would > do the same if it were my co. too. if the aircraft sells > then you adjust > your price accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will > still probably > order a firestar soon, I have put it off long enough. I hope > I have not > offended anyone affiliated with or on this list. ok, let the > comments begin. > > lar, I like reading your postings. how ya!! comin on > the covering. > > gil, I enjoy reading your responses on technical > information. > > thanks, > Gary r. voigt > excelsior, mn. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: "Richard Neilsen " <NeilsenR(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Before Covering
As I was listening to all this good covering info I remembered a small thing I did on my plane. I looked at a lot of Kolbs before I built mine and decided I didn't like the looks of the leading edge of the wing were it transitions to the much smaller wing tip tube. Also the leading edge of the rudder to the top loop/ trailing edge. In every case I built a light gage aluminum faring that tapers from the large tube to the smaller tube. The faring is made from a small piece of sheet aluminum riveted to the larger tube. It serves only as a cosmetic effect and eliminates the end of the leading edge tube from being the stress point on the fabric. Rick Neilsen VW powered MKIII 20hrs. Just finished a 4 into 1 exhaust system and am working on rejeting my Weber carbs. The OAT temps just peaked above 20 degrees for the first time in a week so I was able to get a test run in yesterday. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
To Gary and List Upon reading your post Gary, I was reminded of some thoughts I had while rebuilding my MkIII a couple of years ago. I priced out most of the things I needed to see if it was better to build or buy. I found that I could build ribs for 17 bucks or buy them from Kolb for 27. I chose the latter as I only needed about 8 of them. The main spar tube I needed is no longer available from Dillsburg in the 6 inch size so I ordered it from Kolb also. I don't believe it was any more costly than it would have been from Dillsburg. The larger point is that ; if it cost 10,000 bucks to buy, it probably cost 5,000 to manufacture. In small quantities this is reasonable, it seems to me. Lastly, I am astonished that there are no, plans only, knock off's of any of these designs!! Legal of course, Pod and Boom design. The spar and ribs from Carlson aircraft are available to all and are perfectly good for these airspeeds. The firefly,firestar fuselages are simplicity in themselves and could be welded up for$ 400 to $600 in raw materials. I think that $6000 would get it done. All up. Herb "Gary r. voigt" wrote: > > ok, here we go. I have been monitering the kolb list > for about eight months now and find it very informative. > I'am non-flyer, non-buyer at the present time. however I > have been looking at the kolb firestar for about just over a > year now and I must admit I'am very impressed with this > heavy ultralight. probably because all the good story's john > h. writes and everyone else. here are my thoughts. I > contacted the kolb co. in phoenixville, pa. oct. of 1998 and > requested the info. pack on all the kolb ultralights. I > received it shortly and looked over the price sheets on the > firestar single seat version. looking under ordering > details, one of the bullets states prices effective for > aircraft purchased after july 15th, 1998. I thought ok, > thats normal. the firestar package I was looking at was kit > #1: contains wings and tail; $2,995.00; kit #2; polyfiber > covering; $495.00: kit #3: fuselage cage & ect. $3,050.00: > for a subtotal of $ 6,540.00; I was going to get the 503 > engine which at the time was $3,505.00 for a grand total of > $10,045.00. I thought ok, thats reasonable and in the > ballpark for the ultralights that are on the market today. > but here is what I'am frustrated about after visiting the > new kolb aircraft co. at oshkosh this past summer. after I > obtained some new price sheets and brochoures because mine > were outdated somewhat, (takes me awhile to make a decision > ya!!! know) so after looking and comparing prices from year > to year, I found out this. the same firestar prices I looked > at in oct. of 1998, were quite a bit different than the > prices of july at oshkosh 1999. only nine months had passed > but the new kolb co. had evolved. prices that is. now; kit > #1; wings and tail; $3,299.00 up $300.00 from last year; ok > I can live with 9.89% inflation; ouch!!!. now they have two > airframe kits instead of two hm!!! whats missing. the 503 > engine this year is $3,775.00; up $270.00 from eight months > ago. again increase of almost 10.2%. now as far as the > covering goes I think I have to order that from R&R I > believe, at a cost of $495.00 for the firestar. I which is a > wash because kolb deducted that off the list. my $10,045.00 > ultralight is now going to run me $10,768.00 and I have to > get chute, gauges, paint, ect. which I can understand but at > these increases I better buy it fast, who knows what the > future holds for prices. all I know is maybe there > distribution centers or if they order direct from > manufactures has raised there prices, or maybe not. I don't > want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a > simple man and it has gotten in the hands of big business. I > can't blame them I would do the same if it were my co. too. > if the aircraft sells then you adjust your price > accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will still > probably order a firestar soon, I have put it off long > enough. I hope I have not offended anyone affiliated with or > on this list. ok, let the comments begin. > > lar I like reading your postings. how ya!!! comin on > the covering. > gil, I enjoy reading your technical information. > > thanks, > Gary r. voigt > excelsior, mn. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Richard Pike <rpike(at)preferred.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
> Lastly, I am astonished that there are no, plans only, knock off's of >any of >these designs!! Legal of course, Pod and Boom design. The spar and ribs from >Carlson aircraft are available to all and are perfectly good for these >airspeeds. >The firefly,firestar fuselages are simplicity in themselves and could be >welded up >for$ 400 to $600 in raw materials. I think that $6000 would get it done. All >up. >Herb I think you are right. One of the locals stalled in a MKII several years ago and cartwheeled it, tore it up pretty good, walked away. The remains were hanging up on his hangar wall, and could have been purchased for a fair price before I bought my MKIII. Would have needed one whole wing, boom, and a cage from scratch. Other wing usable, tail usable. But the amount of work involved in building from almost scratch, and the price of the MKIII kit, persuaded me to go with new. The kit was a jewel. A pleasure to build. But covering and finishing? Big Lar is expressing very well how that goes... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Larry Bourne wrote: > > One Lister came up with the idea of using a squeeze bottle for > the poly-tak, and that sounds like a real winner. This approach was worked out by Jim Droemeyer, PolyFiber dealer out of Belle Plains, MN. > I intended all week to > liberate a couple of them from work, suffered various brain farts and > attacks of cranius rectitis, and forgot all about them. Now I have to go > buy them, and try it tomorrow. Question.......when brushing poly-tak, put > on 2 coats, let them dry, put the fabric in place, and re-activate the 'tak > with MEK, right ?? Works wonderfully well, you bet. But, with the squoze > bottle, do you need 2 coats, or just 1 thicker coat ?? First, the re-activate procedure is only for areas where it is not possible to apply the second coat of PolyTak and immediately push the fabric in place while working the PolyTak up through the weave. Example might be if one wants to stick the fabric to the ribs (this, of course, does NOT eliminate the need for rib stitching or other mechanical means of holding fabric to top of ribs). Another example would be when one is covering with an envelope, such as an aileron cover that is pre sewn and slips over the surface like a sock. In these cases one has to apply two good coats to the surfaces, put fabric in place, and then re-activate with MEK. Again one should carefully work the adhesive up through the fabric by rubbing it into place. For other areas one should first apply a coat and let it dry. Then apply a wet coat and work the fabricx into place. Don't try to do too much at one time. The beauty of the bottle approach is that the layers of PolyTak are usually much smoother than if brushed on, and will have far fewer "lumps" which would have to be worked out with the iron later. > Tomorrow, ( my > weekend is Fri. and Sat., then go in at 4 PM to Midnight on Sun. and Mon.), > I plan on giving Vic's method of running finishing tape around the curves a > try. Brilliant Lar went ahead and did the rudder 1st., which turns out to > NOT be the proper sequence, and did fine - may I say Great ! ! !, ?? - until > it came time for the finishing tape. I cut my own bias tape, folded it in > 1/2, for a center line, I suggest marking a center line with a #2 pencil instead of folding. A #2 pencil or a chalk line will NOT blead through and cause a problem, but a pen would certainly be a problem. Believe there was an article in EXPERIMENTER about a simple device a guy made to center line mark tapes. > and glued about a 1/4" around the perimeter of the > curves, while stretching it tight, and let it dry. Then heated up the ole > iron, and had at it. It had back at me, and taught me a little respect. > Yes, you really do have to make the bias tape lots wider, and it looks much > better if you taper the ends to fair it into the regular tapes. Yes, one should taper the ends to fair in and fasten these down with PolyTak. After this is dry one can pull and stretch the bias tape as required. > Then when > shrinking it, be VERY careful ! ! ! Using the stir stick, like in the > video, didn't work till I got the jack knife after it and tapered it down > thin. My steam iron has holes that just happen to perfectly fit the > rivets - thanks Possum - so I didn't have to drill the little iron. Works > good, but I've still got some interesting little creases, folds, and wows > around the curves that just don't cut it and will NOT come out. Think I'm > gonna have to re-do them, and boy do I hate to, after all that fussing and > fuming. Something like 10 hr. to cover the rudder through 1st coat of > poly-brush. The right horiz. stab. went beautifully, till I started ironing > it today after work, and realized I'd forgotten the re-inforcing tape on the > edges of the gussets. Aaaarrrggghhhh ! ! ! Tom Margrave, who did such a > beautiful, professional job on his FireFly is coming over this weekend to > see if he can help me salvage some of it. Cross your fingers for me. > That's about enuf ! ! ! I started this to say thanks for the compliment, > and look what it led to. Those who know what they're doing, please bear > with me. It just might help those coming up on this job, cause it ARE a > miserable S.O.B. Mekky Lar. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary r. voigt <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
In a message dated 1/20/00 5:25:45 PM, rpike(at)preferred.com writes: << I have found that bicycle shops sell a 1/16"cable that is very smooth and slides very well. I replace the ends that come on it with the cable ends that CPS sells. >> Did try one of those Richard but couldn't get the cable to take solder. Of course I don't have a solder pot and was trying to do it with a propane torch. Got a tip from a fellow lister that Lockwood sells a far superior cable for the oil injection. Will check it out. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Date: Jan 21, 2000
I don't >want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a >simple man and it has gotten in the hands of big business. I >can't blame them I would do the same if it were my co. too. >if the aircraft sells then you adjust your price >accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will still >probably order a firestar soon, I have put it off long >enough. I hope I have not offended anyone affiliated with or >on this list. ok, let the comments begin. > > lar I like reading your postings. how ya!!! comin on >the covering. > gil, I enjoy reading your technical information. > > > thanks, > Gary r. voigt > excelsior, mn. Gary, My friend I am here to let you know that all that's good in this world is not lost and there are still good honest folks out there in the world. The owners of NEW Kolb are just such people.... I was up in London, Ky for the fly-in at TNK last year and had a long talk with Travis , their parts guy and he was telling me about the changes they had made to the kits , and from what I remember they put more improvements in the kit then they did extra money...Those fellows aren't in that business to make tons of money , remember the old adage..."It's easy to make a SMALL fortune in aviation , first you have to start with a BIG fortune...." (you get the idea...) From what I remember... ALL kits come with completely pre built wing ribs now (Old Kolb used to charge $150-$200 for this option alone depending on the kit (I know the Mark3's were $200 pre built...)) The old automotive seat belt is gone...standard (ALL kits I think... New Mark 3 for sure cause I got them...) they have replaced the little auto belt with a beefy 4 point (Hooker-style if you are famaliar with Hot Rods...) restraint system. The little narrow tailwheel is gone (on the M3 I don't remember about the other kits on this one...) They have replaced it with a beefy full swivel model that Aircraft Spruce sells for about $220. (Memory again , I don't feel like looking it up right now) So if you do the math they have put about $500-$550 worth of new stuff in the kit (Mark 3 kit at least) and only added about $300 bucks on the price. Anyway what I'm saying is that don't sound like "BIG BUSINESS" to me. Just some guys putting out a great product at reasonable prices... Send them a check...you won't regret it. Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com Happy Mark 3 parts owner....(you have a WHAT in the basement????) P.S. I don't get a commission from 'em and remember that I am working from memory and might be wrong (by a little..) on the prices quoted but with no intent to mislead... yah de da de da de da (insert varoius legal disclaimers here...you know what they are...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Found an exploded view of the oilpump in my SEADOO shopmanual which is identical to the one in the Rotax 582 UL. http://www.webcom.com/reynen/oilpump.html Frank Reynen MKIII@565hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
A The right horiz. stab. went beautifully, till I started ironing >it today after work, and realized I'd forgotten the re-inforcing tape on the >edges of the gussets. Aaaarrrggghhhh ! ! ! Tom Margrave, who did such a >beautiful, professional job on his FireFly is coming over this weekend to >see if he can help me salvage some of it. Cross your fingers for me. >That's about enuf ! ! ! So you forgot the tapes.Whatcha gonna do. rip off the fabric and put new stuff on? Don't worry about it. If one of those gusset corners wears through in time put a small patch on it (good chance it won't ever wear through). If it gets real bad in a few years recover it then. You will probably have some hanger rash on it by then and it won't seem as important. I must have done something wrong, I enjoyed the covering process. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: kolb prices
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Lar, I use 2 coats of Tak. The 2nd fills in any missed spots when I smooth out the first. I figure it is better to get a little too much on instead of missing a spot. Working Tak down into the fabric does not seem to go too well . Put the first shrink on the bottom this morning. I did think to put anti-chafe tape on the member running length wise from front to back. You might want to consider it. L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, Fl Building Mark III, SN 312--N629RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Hey Bill, You might want to find a good quality Bicycle Shop for the cables. I find all the cables I need for every application at ours here at the beach. Real good ones with the plastic inner linner and heavy duty outer casing. Got over 900 hour on the throttle and oil pump cables. They still work like new. I have checked them 3 times in the last three years and found them to have no appreciable wear. It just what I would do for me. Only my opinion based on experience. Firehawk >Tomorrow I have to trek to the big >city so plan to visit a motorcycle shop and see if I can find a higher >quality cable with less friction. After I removed the cable I checked the >arm >again and it freely returns. Will keep all posted. > >Bill George >Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Oil pump-arm return
Saw a pal of mine today who runs a bicycle shop. Asked him if they had some with teflon inner sleeves. He said they did. Will give it a shot. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Halstead" <deanbo(at)calweb.com>
Subject: Brakes & Dual Controls
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Here's a couple questions relating to MK III options: Costs aside, could someone give me the pros and cons of the single control stick versus the dual control stick option? Also, the pros and cons of the drum brake system versus the hydraulic disk brake option? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Makes sense to me. An earlier message has me kind of bothered; I used the 2 coat, re-soak w/ MEK on 2 sides of the horiz. stab. It worked beautifully, very smooth and even - much better than on the rudder, where I used the brush it / stick it method. Woody's message gives hope, kind of what I hope to hear Tom say tomorrow - put patches OVER the trouble spots. I also have some 2.7 ?? oz. fabric I saved from the seminar 3 yrs ago. Should be able to make some good, heavy duty re-inforcing patches from that if necessary. Put them on the outside, since I forgot them on the inside. Right ?? Right ! ! ! Ray, you put the anti-chafe tape on the front to back member of what ?? Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb prices > > Lar, > > I use 2 coats of Tak. The 2nd fills in any missed spots when I smooth > out the first. I figure it is better to get a little too much on instead > of missing a spot. Working Tak down into the fabric does not seem to go > too well . > > Put the first shrink on the bottom this morning. I did think to put > anti-chafe tape on the member running length wise from front to back. > You might want to consider it. > > L. Ray Baker > Lake Butler, Fl > Building Mark III, SN 312--N629RB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brakes & Dual Controls
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Can't speak for the brakes, but I have some exp. with sticks in a Mk III, a Champ, an S-12, and a Sirocco. Also have made lots & lots of vroom vroom noises while sitting in Vamoose. A friend in Orange County, CA. has a Mk III that he hand crafted twin sticks for. They come stock in the S-12. Both planes were VERY awkward to get in and out of, since you're sitting so low, and with your feet extended. The Champ wasn't so bad, cause you're sitting up, more like in a chair. Getting in the back seat of the Sirocco was so bad, the stick was the least of my problems. In all 4, it seemed like the stick travel was limited by my thighs, and I'm not an overweight person. Not too much, anyway. ( 6', 200# ) I built a left side throttle for my Mk III, (which isn't hooked to anything, yet ), and it's great for backyard attack missions. Now, then.............set the tail up on a couple of milk crates, to simulate flying angle, and taking the center mounted stick in my right hand, and the throttle in my left, the feeling is amazing. Can't wait to fly it. With my arms at my sides, and hands comfortably at rest on their respective grips, it feels very natural, and I have full movement of the stick. It's going to be an interesting feeling when I come in for my 1st landing, later this year. ( For how many years have I been saying that ?? ) I experimented with a piece of foam pipe insulation on the aileron torque tube, for an armrest, and it WILL be made permanent. Very Comfy. DayDreamer Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Halstead <deanbo(at)calweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 5:49 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Brakes & Dual Controls > > Here's a couple questions relating to MK III options: > > Costs aside, could someone give me the pros and cons of the single control > stick versus the dual control stick option? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:Anti-chafe tape
> >Makes sense to me. An earlier message has me kind of bothered; I used the >2 coat, re-soak w/ MEK on 2 sides of the horiz. stab. It worked >beautifully, very smooth and even - much better than on the rudder, where I >used the brush it / stick it method. >Should be able to make some good, heavy duty re-inforcing patches from that >if necessary. Put them on the outside, since I forgot them on the inside. >Right ?? Right ! ! ! Ray, you put the anti-chafe tape on the >front to back member of what ?? Lar. >> Put the first shrink on the bottom this morning. I did think to put >> anti-chafe tape on the member running length wise from front to back. >> You might want to consider it. The First Kolb I built, I put anti-chaf tape on every thing that looked like it needed it + everything that the class said to put it on. Not necessary. You can spend a little more time polishing down tose edges, gussets-whatever and not use near as much Anti-chafe tape. Then your plane doesn't end up looking like the "Revenge of the Mummy". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:Anti-chafe tape
On a related note, is it really necessary to stitch the fabric to the ribs on an ultralight? In my case a Minimax. Perhaps a simplified system has be devised other than relying on the Polytak alone. Thanks Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
> >Lar, > >I use 2 coats of Tak. The 2nd fills in any missed spots when I smooth >out the first. I figure it is better to get a little too much on instead >of missing a spot. Working Tak down into the fabric does not seem to go >too well . Took the class from Aircraft Spruce 3 years ago. Was advised to put a coat of "Poly Bush" over the raw aluminum before coating it with "Poly Tak", because the Poly-Tak dries so brittle and the Poly Brush doesn't. The Poly Brush helps to hold the Ploy Tak to the metal-I guess. The instructor said this was a "requirement" for leading edges on experimentals with a VNE of over 120 mph, especially over plywood. Maybe it doesn't matter so much on our planes, but doesn't take that much time. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: chaff
Woody's message gives hope, kind of >what I hope to hear Tom say tomorrow - put patches OVER the trouble spots. I meant put them on the trouble spots if they wore through in later years but what the hell if you want to patch them now go for it. Just remember a round patch has no corners to lift off. Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: More Lexan
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Chomping at the bit today, wanting to have at it, and waiting for Tom to look over my laughable attempts at covering. ( Sorry, Beauford - I think I should call myself the fabric butcher of SoCal ) So, got into the lexan for the quarter panels behind the doors, and around & under the center gap cover between the wings. Keep in mind that I built gull wing doors for Vamoose, and am making the center cover permanent. The entire cabin will be enclosed and sealed. Both ideas are courtesy of Ron Christensen, and really look good - almost worth the huge amount of extra work. If any newbies out there want to see pics of those doors, let me know, and I'll e-mail them direct. I'm told that TNK has a pic of Ron's plane on their web-site. Anyway, months ago, I had the wonderful idea of using plexiglas for making the patterns for the lexan. Cheaper right ?? Don't believe it. Plexi is useless. Slant a look at it, or, heaven forbid, touch it, and it cracks and splits in every direction. Until you TRY to break it, of course. Then it turns to steel, and a sledge won't move it. So, went after a scrap of lexan with a coarse wood cutting blade in a sabre saw, and cut a nice even 1/16" (! ! !) sliver off the side of it. Beautiful. Should be Really good with a fine toothed blade. Then clamped a piece in the vise, and went after it with my industrial heat gun. 1300 worth. Don't even think about getting this thing near any fabric. It took quite a bit of heat, and quite a while, but that stuff bent into as neat a 90 bend as I've ever seen. Clear as a bell through-out too. I have in mind rolling the front edges, so the doors close smoothly on them, and rolling the back edges of them and the doors, to smooth things out, and maybe have a little less wind noise. At the very least, it'll look good. Made the patterns out of light poster board this time, transferred them to the lexan sheets, and tomorrow will cut them out on dad's neighbor's band saw - only because it's so much smoother, and easier to handle. On the gap seal / center cover, I tried paint thinner on that stuck on paper - remember ?? - and it sorta came loose, a little of it, with much soaking, and much swearing, much waiting, and much paint thinner. Not real practical, and stinks something awful. Can't find goo-gone at the local Wal-Mart, though they say they have it. I'll try again tomorrow. Big Lar. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Now, that there is a heck of an idea, Poss, I like it. How well does the 'brush stick to Al, compared to 'tak ?? Anyone ?? Tomorrow, I think I'll run an experiment and see. Many Thanks. Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: kolb prices > > > > >Lar, > > > >I use 2 coats of Tak. The 2nd fills in any missed spots when I smooth > >out the first. I figure it is better to get a little too much on instead > >of missing a spot. Working Tak down into the fabric does not seem to go > >too well . > > Took the class from Aircraft Spruce 3 years ago. Was advised to put a coat > of "Poly Bush" over the raw aluminum before coating it with "Poly Tak", > because the Poly-Tak dries so brittle and the Poly Brush doesn't. The Poly > Brush helps to hold the Ploy Tak to the metal-I guess. The instructor said > this was a "requirement" for leading edges on experimentals with a VNE of > over 120 mph, especially over plywood. Maybe it doesn't matter so much on > our planes, but doesn't take that much time. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Subject: Re: More Lexan
I can't say for sure but in my experience with Lexan I would not use Goo Gone anywhere near it. Put the lexan in a garbage bag with the mineral sprits so it has plenty of time to soak in and loosen the adhesive. They may have changed goo gone since I last used it but I think it will fog and/or craze Lexan and Lucite. Sometimes warm soapy water is a safe alternative. Good luck Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Two Things
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Long as I'm in gear and going, with the TV turned off, here's a couple more. Most of you know, (all of you, now) that I'm using a VW engine with re-drive on Vamoose. I went for dual exhausts, with mufflers parallel to the engine and pointing straight back. Looks REAL good, and don't mention weight, please - they're not that much heavier. I have pics of that too. Anyway, turns out the mufflers are so close to the intakes, that the fuel injectors won't fit. Weeeelll, they fit, but the fuel lines would be pressed against the muffler. Detrimental, yes ?? I have a picture in the CB Performance book that's apparently a copy of a page out of a Lucas book. Pic is of what they call a "Type 3" injector, and is about 2/3 the height of the others. Does anybody know anything about these ?? Or any real stubby injector that'll fit GM or Bosch intakes ?? Or with a 90 degree fuel line connector ?? Hope you can help. The local NAPA dealer just went kinda glassy eyed on me. "Wassa paht numbah ??" Vamoose has been under construction for 3 years and a bit now, and number N78LB has been reserved for about 1 1/2 or 2 yrs, just for me. Today I got a form from the Riverside County, CA. Assessors office, wanting to know all about my aircraft, that I haven't bothered telling them about. Bothered ?? I didn't know I was supposed to, Honest Officer. Mailman brings the damndest things, doesn't he ?? Disgusted Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: More Lexan
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Ogay. Standing by. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: dann mann <aquila33(at)webtv.net> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Lexan > > I can't say for sure but in my experience with Lexan I would not use Goo > Gone anywhere near it. Put the lexan in a garbage bag with the mineral > sprits so it has plenty of time to soak in and loosen the adhesive. > They may have changed goo gone since I last used it but I think it will > fog and/or craze Lexan and Lucite. > Sometimes warm soapy water is a safe alternative. > Good luck > Dan > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
> >To Gary and List > Upon reading your post Gary, I was reminded of some thoughts I had while >rebuilding my MkIII a couple of years ago. I priced out most of the things I >needed to see if it was better to build or buy. I found that I could build ribs >for 17 bucks or buy them from Kolb for 27. I chose the latter as I only needed >about 8 of them. The main spar tube I needed is no longer available from Dillsburg >in the 6 inch size so I ordered it from Kolb also. I don't believe it was any more >costly than it would have been from Dillsburg. The larger point is that ; if it >cost 10,000 bucks to buy, it probably cost 5,000 to manufacture. In small >quantities this is reasonable, it seems to me. > Lastly, I am astonished that there are no, plans only, knock off's of any of >these designs!! Legal of course, Pod and Boom design. The spar and ribs from >Carlson aircraft are available to all and are perfectly good for these airspeeds. >The firefly,firestar fuselages are simplicity in themselves and could be welded up >for$ 400 to $600 in raw materials. I think that $6000 would get it done. All up. >Herb When I sunk my last Kolb Firestar in a nearby lake, I waited a few months and bought the following: Back-half of the dreaded "Ferguson" cage the had only been "tack" welded, 5" wing spars, set of kolb ribs (had to rebuild 2/3s of them because of the drag strut), about half of the hardware, had my old nose cone and stick, some of my old hardware was still good, got the rest of it off a wrecked Firestar II... all for $500. Had to build a "wooded jig" to fabricate the front half of the cage to fit the back half and "tack welded it (copied the angles of my old Firestar except a little wider). I can't weld, a least not good enough for the cage, so paid a Lockheed welder for that - $600. New 503 dual carb, instruments, fabric, turned own landing gear, BRS chute, Etc. Etc. ....I still got over $12,000 (I quit counting after that) and a heck of a lot of time in this thing. Go figure. <http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: chaff
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Well, Woody, Ya see, uh..............I've kinda already wore some little holes over some of the rivet heads with my tender handling of the iron. Uh................ Sheepish Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 8:12 PM Subject: Kolb-List: chaff > > Woody's message gives hope, kind of > >what I hope to hear Tom say tomorrow - put patches OVER the trouble spots. > > > I meant put them on the trouble spots if they wore through in later years > but what the hell if you want to patch them now go for it. Just remember a > round patch has no corners to lift off. > > Woody > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 22, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: chaff
> >Well, Woody, Ya see, uh..............I've kinda already wore some little >holes over some of the rivet heads with my tender handling of the iron. >Uh................ Sheepish Lar. You'll get a lot more holes when you start to sand the Poly Spray/Silver coat, if you use it. Here's a hint. Before you sand anything on your plane-tape over all the stringers, rivet heads, ribs etc. with 1/2 in. masking tape. It only takes a second to cut thru the fabric when your sanding, no matter how careful you are.. I use 3M sanding pads and not sand paper. Comes in Medium, Fine and Ultra fine-and used it wet. Used it on the Silercoat and the paint when applying another color or coat. Hey I'll mail you the Teflon Monday-I found it today, I think you'll like it, as picky as you are. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: JerryB <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
No body said this would be cheap and it appears you didn't consider how long it had been since the last price increase. You complain because they raised the price, yet you had the opportunity to buy it at that price but didn't then have the gull to complain. Hey it happens. Their suppliers raise their prices and they have to pass it on to the customers. Hey it's not like their not honoring their price. Did you approach them for the old price, if they happen to be slow and hungry, they might have taken it. They might have met you half way? Kolb had kept quality in their material and taken care of things when there was a problem. They have a good proven airplane and are still in business to take care of you after the sale. Many others are not. You can't keep the doors open if your losing money. I would rather pay a few bucks more and keep them in business and have down stream support and parts when I need them. Happy with my FireFly, jerryb > > ok, here we go. I have been monitering the kolb list >for about eight months now and find it very informative. >I'am non-flyer, non-buyer at the present time. however I >have been looking at the kolb firestar for about just over a >year now and I must admit I'am very impressed with this >heavy ultralight. probably because all the good story's john >h. writes and everyone else. here are my thoughts. I >contacted the kolb co. in phoenixville, pa. oct. of 1998 and >requested the info. pack on all the kolb ultralights. I >received it shortly and looked over the price sheets on the >firestar single seat version. looking under ordering >details, one of the bullets states prices effective for >aircraft purchased after july 15th, 1998. I thought ok, >thats normal. the firestar package I was looking at was kit >#1: contains wings and tail; $2,995.00; kit #2; polyfiber >covering; $495.00: kit #3: fuselage cage & ect. $3,050.00: >for a subtotal of $ 6,540.00; I was going to get the 503 >engine which at the time was $3,505.00 for a grand total of >$10,045.00. I thought ok, thats reasonable and in the >ballpark for the ultralights that are on the market today. >but here is what I'am frustrated about after visiting the >new kolb aircraft co. at oshkosh this past summer. after I >obtained some new price sheets and brochoures because mine >were outdated somewhat, (takes me awhile to make a decision >ya!!! know) so after looking and comparing prices from year >to year, I found out this. the same firestar prices I looked >at in oct. of 1998, were quite a bit different than the >prices of july at oshkosh 1999. only nine months had passed >but the new kolb co. had evolved. prices that is. now; kit >#1; wings and tail; $3,299.00 up $300.00 from last year; ok >I can live with 9.89% inflation; ouch!!!. now they have two >airframe kits instead of two hm!!! whats missing. the 503 >engine this year is $3,775.00; up $270.00 from eight months >ago. again increase of almost 10.2%. now as far as the >covering goes I think I have to order that from R&R I >believe, at a cost of $495.00 for the firestar. I which is a >wash because kolb deducted that off the list. my $10,045.00 >ultralight is now going to run me $10,768.00 and I have to >get chute, gauges, paint, ect. which I can understand but at >these increases I better buy it fast, who knows what the >future holds for prices. all I know is maybe there >distribution centers or if they order direct from >manufactures has raised there prices, or maybe not. I don't >want to stick my neck out too far but I think holmer was a >simple man and it has gotten in the hands of big business. I >can't blame them I would do the same if it were my co. too. >if the aircraft sells then you adjust your price >accordingly, thats what drives the price. I will still >probably order a firestar soon, I have put it off long >enough. I hope I have not offended anyone affiliated with or >on this list. ok, let the comments begin. > > lar I like reading your postings. how ya!!! comin on >the covering. > gil, I enjoy reading your technical information. > > > thanks, > Gary r. voigt > excelsior, mn. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2000
From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Prices. Airplanes. That must be in Websters under example of synonyms. A few have posted some inexpensive finds for a cage or rebuilding. I guess the $500 cage somebody mentioned was in ref to materials only. Right now I'd happily pay $500 for a replacement cage, or a good repair to mine. But as in most things, materials are not the most expensive part!! I've gotten my KXP cage all stripped down, ready for repair from the blow over last May. I've planned on taking it to a local A&P welding guru, but thought I'd first check with TNK -- after all a repair there would presumably be to original dimensions and done well. I finally called TNK this week. They don't do repairs. New FS cage is $2700, and they don't know if the current model FS cage would fit the KXP wings and fuse tube. I know I'm whining a little here -- I could ask a few people, notably Dennis, if the FS I/II cage would work with the KX wings etc, but I was a little low after finding out: a) no repairs b) no plans to give me some key KX cage dimensions, and c) the big price of a cage'. No doubt about it; we (slightly) older owners took a bit of a hit in the company change. (Admittedly there are probably pluses too.) I'll let you all know how things look after doing more checking around, but I am serious about the interest in a cage -- if anybody knows of an inexpensive option for a KX/KXP cage in good shape, I'm interested. On a slightly different topic, but tied in by the keywords 'price' and 'airplanes' :) I must admit I've been spending a lot of time thinking lustful thoughts about other aircraft. I've memorized the specs, performance, and prices of RVs, Kitfoxes (IV, V, now VI), the Glastar (talk about $$$!), and peeked at a few others such as Murphy Rebel and Avid. Much of this is driven by the recent new possibility that I'll pass that FAA Medical. The airplane pricing only gets worse. I'm willing to accept that to some level, as I am hopeful to eventually move into more airplane (still want slow capability, but also interested in more on the high end -- over 110 cruise sounds nice). If I pass the medical, I will probably sell my KXP. My abilities as a scrounger will have to get much better if I'm going to be able to find some "deals" to get my plane rebuilt for a price that doesn't soak all the fun out of it. Go ahead, cheer me up. BTW, not that I expect you to still be reading Lar, but time heals -- I don't recall the covering as being so bad at all. :) Hey Lar, if you can weld, I can cover. -Ben Ransom Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: kolb prices
Date: Jan 21, 2000
Wow ! ! ! I could sure see about learning in a hurry ! ! ! Hot Rod Lar. P.S. 'Course I'm still reading. Still owe you one too. You know what they say about good intentions. Hang in there, Ben. Like you said a long time ago - one piece at a time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 11:29 PM . Go ahead, cheer me up. > > BTW, not that I expect you to still be reading Lar, > but time heals -- I don't recall the covering as being > so bad at all. :) Hey Lar, if you can weld, I can > cover. > -Ben Ransom

January 05, 2000 - January 22, 2000

Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-bw