Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ca
March 31, 2000 - April 23, 2000
>
>To Topher. It is nice to hear of another UL pilot who actually admits to
>having had and flown a Rotec Ralley 2B. I had one in 1980-1981 . Your
>description was very accurate of the stall characteristics and the airplane
>in general except that it was IMHO a piece of lawn chair junk with sailboat
>controls. I feel fortunate that I survived it ,but it was a unique flying
>experience.
Actually I would second that discription and even worse, and I would not fly
in one now. My freind and I had the 2B in 83-86, when I was young and dumb.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
>Good dissertation Topher. We forgot to mention "ground effect"which is
easier
>explained by your downwash info.
ok this is the real reason airplanes fly... they throw air down at the
earth, which gets mad and reverses gravity to repulse them. this explanes
how a wing can have a lift tio drag ratio in the 40's. how can 1 pound of
thrust generate 40 pounds of lift on a good sail plane? amazing
amplifiers?! no the earth reduces gravity out of spite.
;-)
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
>Topher...am I all wet , or was my science class from high school
>correct--and that was some 40 years ago. Now if I could only remember
>what I did with my car keys 3 minutes ago! Gettin old ain't so
>hot....but it beats the alternative!
>
>Bob Doebler
>F/S II-503
unfortunately you were lied to in your science class along with most people
including pilots in ground school. the asumption is that the air has to get
to the back of the airfoil at the same time. in reality it doesnt. so
although Mr. b's laws are valid and working around the wing and very useful,
the idea that the air over the wing has to go faster is wrong. actually the
air is just sitting there minding its own business when along comes this
wing and swats it downwards.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Halstead" <deanbo(at)calweb.com> |
I'm still not convinced.
When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece of paper
hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly straight out.
There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force it up and the paper
is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath the paper that is not
moving.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Hey Duane:
You may not remember it, but you geve me some neat plans from the trailer
you had that guy in Tallahassee make for you... at SnF last year, we
talked... Have taken the nifty plans you provided and am building a
lower-order angle iron take-off on it... The monster is 26.5 ft L.O.A. and
rests in what used to be my driveway... Chassis is finished and am framing
in the superstructure to be soon covered with .024 aluminum sheet... I
think of you occasionally as I squint at this monster and wonder what you
might think of it... It ain't gonna be near as slick as yours, but I think
it will do OK... I managed to sneak a good wire-feed welder past the 'ol
lady to build it, so it will be worth it...
Are you coming to Snf this go-round? Hope to see you again if you do...
because of work, will not make it over until Thursday and Friday this
year...
Best Regards,
Beauford of Brandon FF #076 (finished, sittin' in the garage waiting fo a
trailer...)
----- Original Message -----
From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
> I appreciate all the responses on this thread. No one has mentioned that
most
> wings start the stall at one point (the root, the tip) before it >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Jeremy:
The U2 at 70K ft. in the typical Summer middle east weather operates in a 3
to 4 knot "throat" between the barber poles... it's on the AP virtually
100% of the time... neat way to make a living...
Beauford of Brandon... completed FF #76...(the trailer thing grows in the
driveway...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
> I chatted with a Lear 45 pilot a while back who made the comment at max.
> altitude, that the stall/cruise/top speed are about 10 knots apart... I
> took my hat off to a guy that can maintain that good of airspeed control
> (That $100,000 worth of avionics in the dash probably helps , autopilot ,
> etc....) Still impressive...
>
> Jeremy Casey
> jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
>
>
> > << I agree, "A stall is a stall is stall," but my point is "feelings"
at
> > 1000 ASL and "feelings" at 15000 ASL may another matter entirely. >>
> >
> > "Feelings" has to do with "Q," which is dynamic pressure. Take a jet to
> the
> > "coffin corner of its envelope and you have 'feelings" as if you were
> sitting
> > on a pin point. Early jet transports suffered several upsets in this
> regime.
> > An old jet instructor of mine, a former BAC test pilot, once described
the
> > control inputs required as "milking a mouse." A couple of knots more and
> you
> > are in mach buffet, a couple less and you are near stall.
> >
> > Of course we have little need for "milking" technique in our airplanes,
> but
> > it is true that at higher altitudes the airplane "feels" different.
> >
> > FWIW
> >
> > Bill George
> > Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Original Firestar kolb |
Randy
Check out my webpage it has some pictures of Johanna's Firestar BRS VLS
installation.
http://members.aol.com/GuillermoU/Johann.html
Regards
Will Uribe
Building a FireStar II
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
In a message dated 3/31/00 7:49:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, yamaha(at)cvn.net
writes:
> Does anyone have any pictures of a BRS VLS chute mounted on Firestar, BRS
> claims it hasn't been done. Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
I have looked at the web page and that is a newer firestar, I have the
original firestar that has the pivot arm up top on the main tube. I need to
find someone that has mounted a vls on my type firestar. Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Beauford Tuton <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Friday, March 31, 2000 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
>Hey Duane:
>You may not remember it, but you geve me some neat plans from the trailer
>you had that guy in Tallahassee make for you... at SnF last year, we
>talked... Have taken the nifty plans you provided and am building a
>lower-order angle iron take-off on it... The monster is 26.5 ft L.O.A. and
>rests in what used to be my driveway... Chassis is finished and am
framing
>in the superstructure to be soon covered with .024 aluminum sheet... I
>think of you occasionally as I squint at this monster and wonder what you
>might think of it... It ain't gonna be near as slick as yours, but I think
>it will do OK... I managed to sneak a good wire-feed welder past the 'ol
>lady to build it, so it will be worth it...
>Are you coming to Snf this go-round? Hope to see you again if you do...
>because of work, will not make it over until Thursday and Friday this
>year...
>Best Regards,
>Beauford of Brandon FF #076 (finished, sittin' in the garage waiting fo a
>trailer...)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 3:16 PM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
>
>>
>> I appreciate all the responses on this thread. No one has mentioned that
>most
>> wings start the stall at one point (the root, the tip) before it >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Didja ever see a thread where I could resist putting in my .02 ?? Several
comments..........1st, on that bit about engine off descent angles; several
years ago I had a couple of hours in an MX II. Instructors advice was to
fly at 300' toward the runway, until you could see the numbers between your
feet. ( No floors ) Then cut the power, point the nose ( front ?? ) down -
WAY Down, and watch the Hall airspeed indicator out of the corner of your
eye, to make sure you were holding 40 mph. Flare when 8' up. It worked -
very well - but he had to make the 1st few landings, cause that nearly
vertical descent psyched me out, and I wanted to flare way too high. Sounds
like what you guys are saying about Kolbs. 2nd. There was a thread a
while ago where I mentioned that many ( I think most ) aircraft are built
with a few degrees of washout at the wingtips, so that in a stall, the root
of the wing will stall, but the wingtips will still be "flying," and give
some aileron control well into the stall. Even so, it's recommended that
you keep the wings level with the rudder, rather than ailerons. 3rd.
My experience and training in the Cessnas tells me that the stall warning
functions according to the "Relative Wind," the angle at which the wind hits
the wing. If you are flying straight and level at a good rate of speed,
every thing's fine. If you then pull the nose up into a steep climb,
nothing much changes, at least for a little while. ( Unless of course, you
really Yank the nose up, in which case it'll stall anyway.) Your speed will
keep the effective angle of the wind at a safe angle. As you slow down
however, the relative wind will start to rotate around and down over the
nose of the wing, until you reach the critical angle of attack, at which
point the wing will stall - every time. I forget the exact angle, (someone
help me here) but I think it's around 15 or 20 deg. to the relative wind.
An extreme example that you can see is at airshows where they have jets
doing aerobatics. When they yank the nose up into an extreme climb, you can
see the vapor boiling in the low pressure area above the wing for a second.
It's thoroughly stalled, at least briefly, and my guess is that it's
momentum that keeps it going until the relative wind catches up. Any of you
aerospace types care to comment ?? I've got a feeling that my neck's hung
way out there, but in any case that's how I understand it to work.
Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com> |
Larry I made a few comments on stalls also-I try not to say anything but at
times I recognized potential hazards in some of the comments or recommended
procedures from fellow Kolbers on this list,many who I know or have flown
with, I am fully aware of the talent and experience of members on this
list. Over the past 50 years in this business I have followed this procedure
when someone tells me how to do it,or do it better. It is like reading a
book,you agree,disagree, with the author and you use your common sense and
follow a reasonable course of action.
Next time a pilot friend bids you goodbye with the admonition, Keep Your
Nose Down", take it as the sincerest form of wishing you long life.
This is the bottom line related to spins/stalls!
Lindy
LA-Lower Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
> >Good dissertation Topher. We forgot to mention "ground effect"which is
> easier
> >explained by your downwash info.
>
> ok this is the real reason airplanes fly... they throw air down at the
> earth, which gets mad and reverses gravity to repulse them. this explanes
> how a wing can have a lift tio drag ratio in the 40's. how can 1 pound of
> thrust generate 40 pounds of lift on a good sail plane? amazing
> amplifiers?! no the earth reduces gravity out of spite.
>
> ;-)
>
> Topher
In making his epic solo flight (with no ground/water support) from
Argentina to Sun n Fun and then on to Oshkosh, Marcello Matocq flew a
LONG stretch over the ocean just off the deck. Figured that when you
are many miles from land, being at 2500 AGL is no advantage to being at
25 AGL as far as gliding distance is concerned, and flying in ground
effect is certainly more effecient.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Randy, the Original FireStar has horizontal push-pull aileron tubes
without a pivot arm on the fuselage tube. It also has two bell-cranks on
the cage under the wing. The one you have is the latest model FireStar.
Ralph
Original FireStar
>I have the original firestar that has the pivot arm up top on the main
tube.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Dean Halstead wrote:
>
>
> I'm still not convinced.
>
> When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece of paper
> hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly straight out.
> There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force it up and the paper
> is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath the paper that is not
> moving.
When all is said and done lift is created by one reason and one reason
only. Namely, the wing must accellerate air DOWNWARD, thereby getting
an equal and opposite force UPWARD on itself (and the aircraft). All of
the discussions about Newton and Bernoulli are simply discussions as to
the MECHANISM that causes the downward accelleration of air.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Dean Halstead wrote:
>
>
> I'm still not convinced.
>
> When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece of paper
> hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly straight out.
> There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force it up and the paper
> is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath the paper that is not
> moving.
Another comment on a phenomena I once observed. Our motor home had a
recently installed awning on the side. A long safety strap ran across
the top and then down to anchors at both sides. One day a strong wind
was blowing directly from the side. The strap which went over the
canopy was rather violently flapping up and down and slapping on the
canopy. I went out and watched it and got an idea. I had installed the
strap FLAT all the way across the canopy. Unfastened one end and gave
it a few twists where it went across the canopy and re-fastened it.
Problem solved! No more slapping!
What happened was this. At an instant when the strap was flush flat
against the canopy, the wind was moving rapidly over the top. The air
under the strap (between strap and canopy) was essentially static. This
resulted in a lessened pressure on the top and the strap came up. As
soon as the strap was up, the airflow was essentially the same on both
sides so the "lift" vanished and gravity and tension pulled the strap
back down. This cycle would then repeat itself.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Ralph
My firestar has the horizontal push-pull aileron tubes up top and has a
pivot on the top tube in front of the engine mount. That pivot is the
problem acording to BRS. I was told by someone else that I had a 1988
firestar does that sound right. Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
>Randy, the Original FireStar has horizontal push-pull aileron tubes
>without a pivot arm on the fuselage tube. It also has two bell-cranks on
>the cage under the wing. The one you have is the latest model FireStar.
>
>Ralph
>Original FireStar
>
>>I have the original firestar that has the pivot arm up top on the main
>tube.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com> |
Topher
Just one more question: Why then doesn't a flat wing generate as much
lift than as an airfoil? Dennis S. could have saved a lot of money in
design work by forgetting wind ribs and just making a flat wing to swap
the air with! Am I missing something here?
curious
Bob Doebler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Waligroski, Greg" <gwaligro(at)ball.com> |
I am tempted to try that idea with airspeed indicator turned into a stall
warning/lift indicator device. Although it is not really an angle of attack
indicator. I guess trying to figure out which would best serve my purposes.
On occasion out here in Colorado I fly into a tight spot or two that looks
interesting and it would be nice to know how close to the "edge" I really
am. I tried the "yarn taped to the side of the windscreen" experiments last
summer. It proved to me that it would indicate the stall angle of attack,
power on or off, but as someone else on the list observed the yarn is
wipping around so much it wasn't too precise. Another problem I located it
down on the vertical side of the windscreen about where my mid calf on my
leg is. I don't really look down there when I am landing or flying too
much so it had limited value as an indicator. With the airspeed indicator
conversion it would give me maybe a more precise visual clue but I am not
sure I have a place to put it. I like the idea of a gauge versus a stall
warning switch since it relays both how close you are to a limit plus the
rate at which you are approaching it. Of course we jump over the stall
limit pretty quick with our low inertia airframes. Anyone know of a source
of cheap airspeed indicators to try this out with?
Gregg
Kolb'n in Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
> I am tempted to try that idea with airspeed indicator turned into a stall
> warning/lift indicator device.
> Gregg
> Kolb'n in Colorado
>
Gregg and Gang:
How about this:
Use the airspeed indicator as an ASI/Stall Warning/Lift
Indicator, since most of us already have the ASI installed.
Why mount another one to do part of the job? Or am I
missing the point on the AOA/Stall Warning/Lift Indicator
thingee?
Go to altitude and do a series of stalls at 1, 2, 3G's.
Note the AS the aircraft stalled. Then add a couple mph for
safety margin. Does that not do the same thing as the
instrument you all are trying to develope?
I like to "try and keep it simple", which doesn't always
work for me.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece of paper
> hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly straight out.
> There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force it up and the paper
> is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath the paper that is not
> moving.
Blow on the bottom of the paper. It doesn't get sucked down, does
it.
Kutta-Jukowski, Prandtl's lift theory, and irrotational flow better
explain lift vectors than Bernoulli.
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Scott <steve_scott(at)mcg.mot.com> |
Topher wrote:
>>How does the wing/sail throw the air?
>>via pressure differential created by angle of attack with or without camber.
>>a flat plate at an angle of attack develops higher pressure on the bottem
>>and lower pressure on the top, due entirely to ram effect, and makes a lot
>>of lift.
The above statement is not entirely true, but close.
I totally agree with Christopher that the air getting thrown
downwards is the "equal and opposite force" that causes the lift,
and that it is due to higher pressure on the bottom of the wing
than the top. In the end they are exactly the same thing, just
depends on how you look at it.
However, the reason a wing is so efficient at creating lift with
a minimum amount of drag is that even with the bottom surface of
the wing completely level to the relative wind, a wing generates
lift! It is not due to a ram air effect.
Although airplanes frequently do generate extra lift due to ram
air effects like when you pull back on the stick and increase the
AOA, the efficient wing does not need to generate all of this
drag to generate lift. Mr. B's law is true, and it applies to a
perfectly flat bottom wing with a smoothly curved upper surface
going straight into the relative wind. It will generate lift
because the pressure is lower on the top than on the bottom,
resulting in a "momentum flux" due to the acceleration of the air
in a downwards direction behind the trailing edge of the wing. (
F=MA is not a magic formula, but I admit that big words like
momentum flux do not originate from my brain. My buddy Rick the
physics Ph.D. and missile designer comes up with the fancy
terms.)
In fact, on a careful analysis of the wing, the AOA is actually
the chord of the wing angle into the relative wind, so that means
the bottom surface can be level or even slightly declining and
still generate lift! It is only when the AOA become zero or less
that the wing develops "negative" lift. Check it out, I am not
making this up. :)
-- Steve Scott, Phoenix AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Scott <steve_scott(at)mcg.mot.com> |
While at the local McGill Ultralight fly-in a few weeks ago, I
met a man that I knew who kept his Kolb Firestar II at the Casa
Grande Airport about 30 min south of Phoenix. He is in his mid
fifties and was a midwestern farmer who visits Arizona every
winter. I kept my Challenger at Casa Grande airport for a couple
winters, and he kept his Kolb in a trailer (how I envied his
trailer!). We chatted whenever we met, and even went off on a
mission once. Nice guy, level headed.
Anyway, I saw him at the fly-in and noticed the big pink scar
exposed on his head. Maybe 5 inches long by about 1 inch wide.
"What happened?", I asked.
Apparently, the engine was idling and he was near the tail doing
something. Due to a smooth surface and maybe a gust of wind, the
plane started rolling away and he instinctively moved towards the
cockpit to shut down the engine (I guess). Well, the prop hit his
head well above the right ear. It stunned him and he fell to the
ground. I guess the plane rolled away?! Someone saw him laying
there and came to his rescue. They flew him in a chopper to bring
him to some major trauma center. He luckily recovered without any
brain damage, but from the looks of the scar, God really gave him
a taste of fate.
I'm not sure what type of prop it was, nor if the prop shattered.
I'll ask if I see him again.
Moral: Smearing brain matter on propellor blades is not a
recommended service procedure.
Oh, and while I'm on it...
The guy who bought my Challenger a few months ago was tweaking
the carbs and such. He is a really good mechanic, but this was
his first airplane. He had the foam seat cushion removed and left
it on the top of the wing (unfortunatley out of sight). When he
reved the engine, the seat cushion slid down and was sucked
throught the prop. Bam! It shattered one blade and threw
fragments all over, and one big chunk though the tail. Luckily,
no one hurt. It was a 3 blade IVO QA prop.
Moral: Props suck.
-- Steve Scott, Phoenix AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>Topher
>
>Just one more question: Why then doesn't a flat wing generate as much
>lift than as an airfoil? Dennis S. could have saved a lot of money in
>design work by forgetting wind ribs and just making a flat wing to swap
>the air with! Am I missing something here?
>
>curious
>Bob Doebler
EVERYTHING - You ever wanted to know about "How a wing works" and "How a
plane flys".
Before we beat it to death.
<http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/title.html#mytoc>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com> |
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 08:56:16 -0800
Subject: Kolb-List: lift
Topher
Just one more question: Why then doesn't a flat wing generate as much
lift than as an airfoil? Dennis S. could have saved a lot of money in
design work by forgetting wind ribs and just making a flat wing to swap
the air with! Am I missing something here?
curious
Bob Doebler
OOPS! Guess I can't write very well. Wind ribs should have been wing
ribs, swap should have been swat. I plead fat fingers, poor eyesight or
just dumb...BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Original FireStars |
Randy,
All Original, (and I think KX, and KXP) FireStars have the horizontal
push-pull aileron tubes and the new ones have vertical tubes attached to
a rocker arm on the fuselage tube in front of the prop.
Ralph
>
> Ralph
> My firestar has the horizontal push-pull aileron tubes up top and
> has a pivot on the top tube in front of the engine mount. That pivot
is
> the problem acording to BRS. I was told by someone else that I had a
> 1988 firestar does that sound right. Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
Hi Ed,
Today we took some pictures at the Mexican market of the type of hats your
looking for. Let me know which one you like, I'll find out it's cost and
send it to you via UPS.
Will
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats01.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats02.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats03.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats04.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats05.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats06.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats07.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats08.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats09.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats10.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats11.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats12.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats13.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats14.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats15.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Hats16.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank, Christie, Frank & Meagan Hodson" <fchodson(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Sun 'n Fun & Palm Computers... |
For all you guys that are going to Sun 'n Fun AND you own a Palm Pilot or
Handspring Visor etc....I just found a neat program that is free. You will
be able to have a complete Exhibitor listing and a Guide to Sun 'n Fun with
you always. The website is:
http://www.palmtoppublishing.com/sunnfun/
The download for your palm computer is:
http://www.palmtoppublishing.com/sunnfun/sunnfun.prc
My wife is using my Visor this weekend so I haven't tried it yet but it
looks good!! (Sadly, I'm not going to be able to go to Florida this year.
Frank Hodson III (A usually silent Kolb reader)
fchodson(at)bigfoot.com
http://www.hodsonhome.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
> In static condition the Pd would be zero, and as lift
increases the Pd would
> decrease.
> Would this equate to Angle of Attack?
if Pd is shorthand for pressure differancd: then as lift
increases the Pd would increase. the flaw in this
aproach is "varing airspeed" if you are at stall speed and
you are creating 1 g lift you should be in level flight and
any additional back pressure on the stick would produced a
stall. the results should be predictable. if you were
double the stall speed in strait and level flight (1 g)
and pull back on the stick you are capable of producing much
more than 1 g lift, thus much more Pd
in my humble opinion. there is a company that has a small
device called the "bakon saver" if memory servs. it consist
of a vertical plate with a hole in the front and the back is
marked out in deg. mounted in the hole is a small windvain
that pivits up and down in relation to the relative wind.
true aoa.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Outboard rib reinforcement |
Hi Kolbers,
Got a question for ya'll. In the blueprints for the FS II that I'm
building it shows a option that you can install on the outboard ribs to help
reinforce them using 1/2" and !/4" angle (I think thats the size) Can
anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is necessary or
not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide if it's
something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering the Firestar
a good bit. Thanks!!!
Later,
John Cooley
Building FS II #1162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 03/27/00 |
ben wrote One thing I'm considering in my rebuild is
shortening my wings,
last year i went to washington to visit my brother and he
took me around to where many other builders had their planes
stored. the one gent had shortened his wings to the end
of the main spar by completely removing the tip bow etc.
at the end of the main spar he added a flat plate on the
end of the wing. the plate was the same shape as the wing
cross section but was about 1 to 1 1/2 inches larger than
the wing. for a test of the two wings performance he flew
with one wing of each style and mentioned that he could not
tell any difference in the two. he was expecting a
difference in both drag and lift but noticed none. the
reason for the change was to have a guard on the wing tip to
advert any fabric damage if the wing tip hit the
ground. hope this helps.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
John,
Did mine that way on the MIII, but haven't flown yet. Seemed like a good
idea and was easy. Anybody actually have a "saved wing damage" story?
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Date: Sunday, April 02, 2000 9:51 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Outboard rib reinforcement
>
>Hi Kolbers,
> Got a question for ya'll. In the blueprints for the FS II that I'm
>building it shows a option that you can install on the outboard ribs to
help
>reinforce them using 1/2" and !/4" angle (I think thats the size) Can
>anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is necessary or
>not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide if it's
>something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering the Firestar
>a good bit. Thanks!!!
>
>Later,
>John Cooley
>Building FS II #1162
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
>
>Hi Kolbers,
> Got a question for ya'll. In the blueprints for the FS II that I'm
>building it shows a option that you can install on the outboard ribs to help
>reinforce them using 1/2" and !/4" angle (I think thats the size) Can
>anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is necessary or
>not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide if it's
>something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering the Firestar
>a good bit. Thanks!!!
>
I did mine that way - hardly weighs anything and seems to make the ribs
much stronger.
Copied off John Russell's "Slingshot"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BILLBEAM(at)aol.com |
Boyd,
I remember from my old Air Guard days that the F-102 had a vane similar
to that you described. It was mounted on the left side of the fuselage and
pivoted on a vertical plane. It sent AOA information to the pilot.
The guy from Rite Angle is selling one like this. It displays your AOA on
a tree of LED's in inside the plane. These devices measure the angle between
the relative wind the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. The chord of the
wing is
fixed, so this measurement becomes Relative Wind vs.Wing Chord.
My question is: does the "low" pressure on top of the wing change is
proportional
to the Angle of Attack ? Seems that if you lower the nose, changing the AOA,
the
air over the wing changes speed, but is it somehow proportional to AOA. If so,
all we need is a vacuum gauge to measure the upper wing air pressure and
adjust
the stick pressure to maintain the relative pressure to maintain flight.
I'll think about this on the trip to Fun-n-Sun. I'm sure we can find some
Engineer
there to correct us.
Bill
Kolbless for now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Halstead <deanbo(at)calweb.com>
Date: Friday, March 31, 2000 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift
>
>I'm still not convinced.
>
>When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece of
paper
>hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly straight out.
>There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force it up and the
paper
>is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath the paper that is not
>moving.
In that case the higher velocity air over the paper is generating low
pressure as according to bernoulli, and the paper gets lifted by the higher
pressure static ait that is below it. and guess what , the air that you
blow over the paper gets thrown down resulting in the paper being held up.
whether the air is moving or the paper, makes no differance. otherwise wind
tunnels wouldnt be much use. in the wind tunnel you could say the wing is
sitting there minding its own business and air comes along and swats it
upwards, getting deflected down in the process. them main thing to remember
is that for the air to hold something up it has to be accelerated down.
just like in order for a propeller to move a plane forward it has to throw
air backward. exactly the same thing.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
>An extreme example that you can see is at airshows where they have jets
>doing aerobatics. When they yank the nose up into an extreme climb, you
can
>see the vapor boiling in the low pressure area above the wing for a second.
>It's thoroughly stalled, at least briefly
once the wing stalls there is no low pressure zone and the vapour
dissapears. when you see the vapour is at very high g's, meaning very high
lift and very low pressure on the wing. the jet ussually only maintains
this high g condition for a second or so, and then reduces g's and the
vapour goes away. the plane never is stalled during these types of
manuevers.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
>Just one more question: Why then doesn't a flat wing generate as much
>lift than as an airfoil?
As i said camber can make lift at zero aoa, but not a ton. wings have
thickness for structural reasons and they have the shape they have to get
the most lift for the least drag. dont get me started on drag now! so
cambered wings are better then flat wings, they make more lift cause they
throw air down better.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
>Go to altitude and do a series of stalls at 1, 2, 3G's.
>Note the AS the aircraft stalled. Then add a couple mph for
>safety margin. Does that not do the same thing as the
>instrument you all are trying to develope?
>
>I like to "try and keep it simple", which doesn't always
>work for me.
>
>john h
this is the time honered aproach and it works ok. but stall speed is a
function of g's, cg location, weight, and power on versus power off. if you
can remember all those stall speeds and know which one to remember to give
you the maximum amount of lift in a criticle situation thats great. Stall
angle is constant. no matter the loading g's cg, power on power off weight.
AOA at stall is the same. so if you want simple that is simple. stall
speed is the complicated one. if you always fly 10 mph above your worst
case stall speed you wont stall, but you wont be making very near best lift
in lots of situations, and if you are trying to clear that tree to the
emergency landing field it would be nice to use all of your lift and know
you arnt going to stall. Your a way better pilot then I will ever be so
please fly how you like, but consider that us hacks might be able to fly
alot safer if we have a maximum lift indicator that is easy to use.
rookie pilot topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More on Lift... |
>However, the reason a wing is so efficient at creating lift with
>a minimum amount of drag is that even with the bottom surface of
>the wing completely level to the relative wind, a wing generates
>lift! It is not due to a ram air effect.
I was talking about a flat plate there. The bottem surface of a thick
airfoil is not where we measure AOA. AOA is measured from the tip of the
nose to the tip of the tail, and when the bottem is parallel to the air flow
you still have positive AOA.
Again camber alone can make a bit of lift but it isnt much. without aoa
your not going to make very useful flying machines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
In a message dated 4/2/00 11:16:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
suds77(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< Anybody actually have a "saved wing damage" story? >>
Maybe. For a long time I had my wings folded when the plane was in the
hangar and to move it around the only way to do it was to grab the tips and
pick them up and push the plane around like a wheel barrow. Folding the
wings back puts quite a bit of weight on the tailwheel and when you pick up
the back end that way all that weight is placed on the connections that join
the curving tip tube to the leading and trailing edge. It just seemed to me
like more than the system was designed for. I did the extra reinforcement on
the tip but don't know whether it has saved me anything. However, my
wingtips are nice and rigid after quite a bit of horsing them around.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | kolb wingtip braces, needed?> |
>
>Hi Kolbers,
> Got a question for ya'll. In the blueprints for the FS II that I'm
>building it shows a option that you can install on the outboard ribs to
help
>reinforce them using 1/2" and !/4" angle (I think thats the size) Can
>anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is necessary or
>not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide if it's
>something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering the
Firestar
>a good bit. Thanks!!!
>
>Later,
>John Cooley
If you are going to trailer and fold often, put them in.
One of the things that comes up when trailering is the proper support of
the weight of the wings, near the tail when folded. The tail can't support
the full weight of the wings, it is too much for the tailwheel spring. So
you must support the boom tube back there, or the wings as I did on my
trailer. I added a couple boat rollers, which the wings' leading edges
roll into as they load onto the trailer. The rollers are located so the
part of the wings' leading edge tube that rest on them is right at the
most-outboard full rib. That is where the plans show to add the angle
aluminum. In hindsight, I wish I would have doubled up on the gussets at
this location too (one on each side), to further reinforce. It is tough to
plan for something you don't know about yet.
Trailering and handling has been a lot more stressful than flight (for both
me and the Kolb).
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Miller <jim(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:18 AM
Subject: Fw:
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Miller
> To: johnc(at)datasync.com
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:17 AM
>
>
> Hi, John,
>
> I don't have that particular set of prints,
>
> Does the mod reinforce the whole rib? I do know that when you shrink
the
> fabric, it will tend to bow the outboard rib and the forward (not
> reinforced) part of the butt rib .......
>
> Also, let me know when you're going to shrink the fabric, I have a
procedure
> to very much lessen the tendency for the fabric to "trough" between the
nose
> ribs.
>
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Epbonsell(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Hi,
This is the first message for me on the kolb list. I built a 1986 firestar.
Finished it in 1987. From 1987 to 1999 I flew with a dozen or so friends to
local airshows, Up and down the beach in New Jersey, Cross country over the
Pocono mountains of eastern Pennsylvania. We Had poker runs and flyin
picnics. Man we really had a time. Things are a little quieter around here
now. There was a fire at the hanger my plane was kept in. The firestar got a
little crispy around the edges. It is rebuildable. But i'm alot busier now
than I was in 1987. So I think it's going to take a while.
My 1st problem is I had a morter deployed BRS softpack mounted in the body
under the fuel tank. The chute deployed out through the side of the body down
and to the rear of the plane. A real nice set up. Completely enclosed. But
BRS doesn't make the morter system anymore so i can't just buy a new one and
put it in. The new soft pack and rocket system is about 12" x 12'"x 5". It
won't fit in the same space. I guess i'm in the same situation Randy and
Ralph are talking about. With the bellcrank for the ailerons on the root
tube, where can I put a new Chute?
Glad to be on the list,
Ed Bonsell
Ft. Washington Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank_R_Reynen(at)notes.seagate.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 Installation |
Did you get the engine from Kolb which should have included all the
hardware or somewhere else like I did and have to make all parts yourself.
In this case I can help you with the location and other installation stuff.
Please let me know
Frank Reynen MKIII@565hrs(75 on 912)
http://www.webcom.com/reynen/mk3.html
Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Installation
Fellow Kolbers,
I am trying to lay out the installation of this beautiful piece of metal.
I have no documentation which shows the location of mounting holes in
the "L" brackets which attach to the engine. Also there is no
direction/documentation as to which mounting holes in the engine are to
be used and the consequential x axis of the engine.
If I have missed something I would appreciate anyone/everyone pointing me
in the right direction.
Thanks in advance.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III, SN M1156--N629RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights |
Ed,
Have you bought the new soft pack?? If not, why not go to the canister type
and mount it in the same place.
My "Original" Firestar has the canister mounted inside also and fires the
same way as what you have described.
Looks like it should work fine.
Dennis (Located in MD)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Epbonsell(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Stalls in Kolbs vs other ultralights
>
> Hi,
> This is the first message for me on the kolb list. I built a 1986
firestar.
> Finished it in 1987. From 1987 to 1999 I flew with a dozen or so friends
to
> local airshows, Up and down the beach in New Jersey, Cross country over
the
> Pocono mountains of eastern Pennsylvania. We Had poker runs and flyin
> picnics. Man we really had a time. Things are a little quieter around here
> now. There was a fire at the hanger my plane was kept in. The firestar got
a
> little crispy around the edges. It is rebuildable. But i'm alot busier now
> than I was in 1987. So I think it's going to take a while.
> My 1st problem is I had a morter deployed BRS softpack mounted in the body
> under the fuel tank. The chute deployed out through the side of the body
down
> and to the rear of the plane. A real nice set up. Completely enclosed.
But
> BRS doesn't make the morter system anymore so i can't just buy a new one
and
> put it in. The new soft pack and rocket system is about 12" x 12'"x 5".
It
> won't fit in the same space. I guess i'm in the same situation Randy and
> Ralph are talking about. With the bellcrank for the ailerons on the root
> tube, where can I put a new Chute?
> Glad to be on the list,
> Ed Bonsell
> Ft. Washington Pa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darren L Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org> |
| Subject: | Medical Question |
Group:
I have been tossing the idea around of getting a license, but may
not be able to because of health reasons. Does anyone know if a Mitral
Valve Prolapse (malformed heart valve) would disqualify me?
I am not on any medication for this, and have had the stress test,
and others, which I passed.
Thanks for your info, Darren Smalec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Kearbey, D.D.S." <kearbey(at)cncnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Medical Question |
No. probably not a problem.
Bob CFII ASMEL
----- Original Message -----
From: Darren L Smalec <smald(at)shianet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2000 10:49 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Medical Question
>
> Group:
> I have been tossing the idea around of getting a license, but may
> not be able to because of health reasons. Does anyone know if a Mitral
> Valve Prolapse (malformed heart valve) would disqualify me?
> I am not on any medication for this, and have had the stress test,
> and others, which I passed.
> Thanks for your info, Darren Smalec
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
d when you pick up
>the back end that way all that weight is placed on the connections that join
>the curving tip tube to the leading and trailing edge. It just seemed to me
>like more than the system was designed for. I did the extra reinforcement on
>the tip but don't know whether it has saved me anything. However, my
>wingtips are nice and rigid after quite a bit of horsing them around.
>
You can save wear and tear on the wing tips when lifting the folded plane
by opening up the ends of the trailing edge spars and inserting 2 1 ft
pieces of 1" tubing in the ends whenever you need to pick up the folded back
end. no stress on the wing tip or fabric. Remove before flight.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
In a message dated 00-04-03 5:02:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
duesouth(at)iname.com writes:
<< You can save wear and tear on the wing tips when lifting the folded plane
by opening up the ends of the trailing edge spars and inserting 2 1 ft
pieces of 1" tubing in the ends whenever you need to pick up the folded back
end. >>
Not when you have the aileron counterweights installed which are, as I
understand it, the current recommendation from Kolb on all Mark 3s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Topher, what about reflexed wings like the Kasperwing where the trailing
edge is curved upwards? Does it blow the air down?
Ralph
>When you blow air across the top of a (square or rectangular) piece
> of paper hanging from your fingers, why does the paper lift nearly
>straight out. There is no downdraft off the back of the paper to force
it up >and the paper is not going anywhere. There is stable air beneath
the >paper that is not moving. In that case the higher velocity air over
the >paper is generating low pressure as according to bernoulli, and the
>paper gets lifted by the higher pressure static ait that is below it.
and >guess what , the air that you blow over the paper gets thrown down
>resulting in the paper being held up. whether the air is moving or the
>paper, makes no differance, otherwise wind tunnels wouldnt be much >use.
in the wind tunnel you could say the wing is sitting there minding its >
own business and air comes along and swats it upwards, getting >deflected
down in the process. them main thing to remember
> is that for the air to hold something up it has to be accelerated
down.
> just like in order for a propeller to move a plane forward it has to
> throw air backward. exactly the same thing.
>
>
> Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: kolb wingtip braces, needed? |
John, I fold and unfold my wings every time I fly this 13 year old
FireStar. The 1/4" bracing broke after about 50 hours where it met the
spar (sharp angle in that spot). If any of you guys hear anything
rattling around in there, it's probably that 1/4" tube. The new models do
not have it, I don't think. I had to cut a large rectangular piece out of
the fabric to replace it with 5/16" tubing. I also beefed up the area
with some more 3/8" tube to reinforce it. I never found out about this
angle brace until now.
While I'm on the subject of wing folding, I have a very nice cradle the
fuse tube sits on while the FireStar is stored. The cradle is welded to a
vertical stand then to an axle with wheels. It keeps the weight off the
wings and tailwheel when stored.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar
>Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley"
>Hi Kolbers,
> Can anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is
>necessary or not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide
if > it's something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering
the Firestar
>a good bit. Thanks!!!
>
>Later,
>John Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
>
>In a message dated 00-04-03 5:02:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>duesouth(at)iname.com writes:
>
><< You can save wear and tear on the wing tips when lifting the folded plane
> by opening up the ends of the trailing edge spars and inserting 2 1 ft
> pieces of 1" tubing in the ends whenever you need to pick up the folded back
> end. >>
>
> Not when you have the aileron counterweights installed which are, as I
>understand it, the current recommendation from Kolb on all Mark 3s.
>
>
Better check where you placed the counterweights. If you installed them on
the rear spar they may not be as effective as you may wish :) A better
location would be the leading edge of the aileron.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
The 10 Commandments of Email
Thou shalt include a clear and specific subject line.
Thou shalt edit any quoted text down to the minimum thou needest.
Thou shalt read thine own message thrice before thou sendest it.
Thou shalt ponder how thy recipient might react to thy message.
Thou shalt check thy spelling and thy grammar.
Thou shalt not curse, flame, spam or USE ALL CAPS.
Thou shalt not forward any chain letter.
Thou shalt not use e-mail for any illegal or unethical purpose.
Thou shalt not rely on the privacy of e-mail, especially from work.
When in doubt, save thy message overnight and reread it in the light
of the dawn.
And, here's the "Golden Rule" of E-Mail:
That which thou findest hateful to receive, sendest thou not unto others.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | re angle of attack bacon saver htm |
i found this url for the baconsaver AOA indicator
Since your wing stalls at one fixed angle--- no matter what
airspeed--
WATCH THE ANGLE!
Especially at low altitude
and/or pulling Gs.
http://www.oneillairplane.com/baconsaver.htm
it looks real simple
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 04/02/00 |
>An extreme example that you can see is at airshows where
they have jets
>doing aerobatics. When they yank the nose up into an
extreme climb, you
can
>see the vapor boiling in the low pressure area above the
wing for a second.
>It's thoroughly stalled, at least briefly
once the wing stalls there is no low pressure zone and the
vapour
dissapears. when you see the vapour is at very high g's,
meaning very high
lift and very low pressure on the wing. the jet ussually
only maintains
this high g condition for a second or so, and then reduces
g's and the
vapour goes away. the plane never is stalled during these
types of
manuevers.
Topher
while in england and with the right conditions i saw this
vapor behind wings of an aircraft in level flight the vapor
remained for about 1 1/2 legnths of the plane.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 04/02/00 |
but consider that us hacks might be able to fly
alot safer if we have a maximum lift indicator that is easy
to use.
rookie pilot topher
if what you are looking for is to get over the top of a tree
at the end of the field, what you are looking for is the
maximum angle of clime. not to be confused with the maximum
rate of climb.
to find a maximum angle of climb do several test runs at 5
mph incriments starting with a gps and travel 1 mile noting
the altitude at the begining and end of the mile.. the
speed which gives you the best altitude difference would be
the best angle of climb. for the best rate of climb
set it up about the same but climb 1000 ft at different
speeds and see which speed gives you the shortest
time. in setting up both test start the climb about
500 ft befor the test ru;n begins so that airspeen and angle
can be stabilized befor starting the test the best angle
of climb will be slower than the best rate of climb
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | bwr000(at)yahoo.com |
>Topher, I'm not so sure about your statement that sailboats go fastest
>when close hauled ...not the ones I've sailed. By close-hauled here we
>probably mean tight-tack (sailboat sailing at minimum angle to wind
>direction). My experience is that sailboats fastest mode is more like
>broad reach. I'm not sure I know why, or want to try to say why in an
>email, especially to an airplane list-serv group. Lets just say that
>several factors are involved: sail shape, interaction with keel forces,
>the drag component (of the wind) being less penalty to boat velocity.
>Yes, even at broad reach, the boat velocity decreases apparent wind
>angle and increases apparent wind velocity.
Everything ive ever seen on this subject is that boats make best speed going
somewhat into the wind. Close hauled is probably overstating it but ther is
an angle to windward that is faster then andy other direction. I have been
searching the web for a reliable source on this one bu have not found one
yet. I'll let you know if i do.
TOpher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift
>
>Topher, what about reflexed wings like the Kasperwing where the trailing
>edge is curved upwards? Does it blow the air down?
>
>Ralph
only when they are making lift. the trailing edge curves up to provide
pitch trim in a flying wing. the wing is still at an angle of attack to
make lift. For those who refuse to believe that lift is made by throwing
air down i give up. I have done my best to explain and it apparently hasnt
been good enough. I knew I should have left this one alone! back to lurk
mode for me.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 04/02/00 |
Speaking of vapor, several years ago, I took a picture of a USCG C-130 on a
short field take-off from Port Angeles, WA. ( CLM ) Plane was silhouetted
against the trees on an overcast day, and you can see the vapor trails from
the prop tips on all 4 engines. Looks like a basket weave over the wings.
Lest anyone think I'm bragging about the great skill involved, I was trying
for a pic of the plane breaking ground. A buddy's girlfriend looked at the
print and asked what those lines over the wings were. Blew us all away. If
anyone's interested, I'll scan it in and email it to you direct.
Photog Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
>
> while in england and with the right conditions i saw this
> vapor behind wings of an aircraft in level flight the vapor
> remained for about 1 1/2 legnths of the plane.
>
> boyd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Hang in there Topher, your input is valued, and believed, and understood.
Thanks. We need more do-ers, and less lurk-ers. Specially story-tellers.
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher John Armstrong <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift
>
i give up. I have done my best to explain and it apparently hasnt
> been good enough. I knew I should have left this one alone! back to lurk
> mode for me.
>
> Topher
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Believe me, Jim's advice is good ! ! ! Remember a few weeks ago, when I
from my little pea brain memory ) described Jim's method of putting the
leading edge tape smoothly over the bumps ?? Well, I put it to use a week
ago, and it worked exactly as advertised, smooth and neat - at least over
the parts that I did the way he said to do them. ( ??? ) The parts I did
my way, with glue slathered all over the place,
................weeellllll..............let's just say that 1st effort has
been torn off, and is being re-done. Sloppy Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: INFO <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:29 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fw:
>
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
> > >
> > Also, let me know when you're going to shrink the fabric, I have a
> procedure
> > to very much lessen the tendency for the fabric to "trough" between the
> nose
> > ribs.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PFI" <redhill(at)rose.net> |
since I have done a lot of sailing, I can attest that a broad reach is the fastest
angle for a sailboat. I think the simplest explanation that can be given
is that on a broad reach, you get the full force of the wind plus the additional
aerodynamics of the sail trimmed for the apparent wind. Both forces added
is the maximum power for sailing.
It interesting to note in ice sailing, because there is very little friction, an
ice ship can sail at two or three times the speed of the wind. Once speed is
developed, the sail is then trimmed for the apparant wind instead of the true
wind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
Okay, I have had enough. All you smart guys out there that seem to
understand the theory of stalls better remember one thing for sure. No
matter what you have for guages, guides, gps, etc, one thing prevails and
that is your butt. You had better just watch what the hell you are doing and
what the plane's attitude is. My big question to all is: If you cant or
dont watch the ASI what makes you think you are going to watch a stall meter
or even hear it for that matter. I practice on NOT stalling. Once you have
stalled while low, it is too late. I really dont understand why you cannot
just feel the difference. I fly many different types and I sure can. Maybe
its just me. Mine fits me like a shoe and I love my little '86 Firestar.
Will be at South Lakeland Airport this weekend so if anyone wants to see my
trailer unit, come visit. No matter how you trailer it is a problem but I
would rather not have to rely on the return trip and I can bring the creature
comforts with me. see you all at Lakeland. Ted Cowan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Ted,
I think that for those pilots that fly the same Kolb regularly, stalls may
not be a problem. But for someone who is either not current of changing planes,
it is a real problem. Then there is the pilot who is not current and flying a
different plane for the first time.
I even had an adjustment to make when I changed from an original Firestar to
a Firestar II. Then after a winter of rarely flying, I went back to expecting it
to be like the original, and had to make the adjustment again. The Firestar II
needs a little more power in flair and stalls at a higher ASI. Easy to forget
when everything else feels the same.
John Jung
TCowan1917(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Okay, I have had enough. All you smart guys out there that seem to
> understand the theory of stalls better remember one thing for sure. No
> matter what you have for guages, guides, gps, etc, one thing prevails and
> that is your butt. You had better just watch what the hell you are doing and
> what the plane's attitude is. My big question to all is: If you cant or
> dont watch the ASI what makes you think you are going to watch a stall meter
> or even hear it for that matter. I practice on NOT stalling. Once you have
> stalled while low, it is too late. I really dont understand why you cannot
> just feel the difference. I fly many different types and I sure can. Maybe
> its just me. Mine fits me like a shoe and I love my little '86 Firestar.
> Will be at South Lakeland Airport this weekend so if anyone wants to see my
> trailer unit, come visit. No matter how you trailer it is a problem but I
> would rather not have to rely on the return trip and I can bring the creature
> comforts with me. see you all at Lakeland. Ted Cowan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard_Harris(at)albemarle.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 04/02/00 |
Larry: Would love to see the 130 pic.
thanks
RH MK3 #233 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johann G Johannsson <johann-g(at)tal.is> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
Hi John and listers.
I did install these angles on the outboard rib, just in case, but another thing
I should have done is make the handle bar inside the wing end tube, for easy
handling when folding. Someone on the list did just that, but I can not remember
who it was.
It looks rally nice and makes it much easier to handle the wings.
I am sure this member can give you more information.
Regards,
Johann G.
Iceland. Firestar II 40 hrs flying.
John Cooley wrote:
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> Got a question for ya'll. In the blueprints for the FS II that I'm
> building it shows a option that you can install on the outboard ribs to help
> reinforce them using 1/2" and !/4" angle (I think thats the size) Can
> anybody relate any personal experience about weather this is necessary or
> not. I'm not far from the covering process and can't decide if it's
> something I should do or not. I will be folding and trailering the Firestar
> a good bit. Thanks!!!
>
> Later,
> John Cooley
> Building FS II #1162
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
Gentlemen:
I just had a conversation with Kerry Yunck, the top Rotax maintenance guy
at Lockwood Aviation which I think might be of interest to Kolbers running
the 582. The background to the conversation is this: I try to be pretty
scrupulous about running my motor just like the books says. The 582 repair
manual says to run 50/50 antifreeze with distilled water, which is what I
have done. However, the other day I was looking at the clear plastic line
into my overflow bottle and was distressed to see some white sandy looking
precipitate at the bottom of the loop.
Everyone running the 582 knows about the reported problems with cross
shaft leakage, and grit in that system is what is supposed to cause the
problem due to abrasion on the seal. So I promptly called up Kerry and he
reports that he sees about 50 582s per year, and the vast majority of cross
shaft leaking problems come from guys that have used tap water to mix their
coolant.
However there have been some reported problems even when the operator was
using distilled. This drove the engineers in Austria nuts for a while
because there were virtually no reported cross shaft leakage problems in
Europe, until someone realized that virtually all antifreeze in Europe is
phosphate/silicate free while the US is still using phosphates and silicates
in antifreeze, apparently as some sort of blending agent. Kerry reports that
if you are using regular aluminum compatible antifreeze and distilled water
per the manual you can still precipitate out enough grit to buy yourself a
problem. This is obviously what the white stuff is in the bottom of my
overflow line.
Lockwood is recommending Havoline extended life antifreeze. It's orange.
I know there was a thread on this subject a while back, and I bought some
silicate free antifreeze, thinking I'd switch when I got around to it. You
can bet I'll be swapping the old stuff out pretty soon now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gravity (was lift) :) |
Topher,
I found it ironic and interesting that the most basic issue to flying
generated such a long thread, 97 years after Oroville and Wilbur
figured it out, and long after most of us have piloted a plane. I think
most people on the list appreciated your simplified explanations,
including myself. There will always be a portion on any list that
thinks any subject is beat to death somewhere between 1 and 100
messages on that thread. So, don't lurk if something needs to be said.
Maybe next we could discuss the cause of something else controversial,
like the cause of gravity. NO!!!!!!
Happy wind deflecting to ya. :)
-Ben
--- Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift
>
>
> >
> >Topher, what about reflexed wings like the Kasperwing where the
> trailing
> >edge is curved upwards? Does it blow the air down?
> >
> >Ralph
>
>
> only when they are making lift. the trailing edge curves up to
> provide
> pitch trim in a flying wing. the wing is still at an angle of attack
> to
> make lift. For those who refuse to believe that lift is made by
> throwing
> air down i give up. I have done my best to explain and it
> apparently hasnt
> been good enough. I knew I should have left this one alone! back to
> lurk
> mode for me.
>
> Topher
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Settle <rsettle(at)flash.net> |
Larry,
I would sure like an E-mail of that photo you took.
Thanks,
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=111951&a=819423&p=15531703
Randy & Val Settle
Original Firestar I
The Lazair News Letter
http://www.flash.net/~rsettle/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Russell" <28kb(at)bellsouth.net> |
Kolbers,
I am going to switch to the phosphate/silicant free antifreeze , but
what I am finding
out is you cannot mix the two. What would be a good way to completly flush
the system
of the old stuff , and not leave a trace.
JR 912S SlingShot
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cavuontop(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 4:25 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 582 engines
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I just had a conversation with Kerry Yunck, the top Rotax maintenance
guy
> at Lockwood Aviation which I think might be of interest to Kolbers running
> the 582. The background to the conversation is this: I try to be pretty
> scrupulous about running my motor just like the books says. The 582
repair
> manual says to run 50/50 antifreeze with distilled water, which is what I
> have done. However, the other day I was looking at the clear plastic line
> into my overflow bottle and was distressed to see some white sandy looking
> precipitate at the bottom of the loop.
>
> Everyone running the 582 knows about the reported problems with cross
> shaft leakage, and grit in that system is what is supposed to cause the
> problem due to abrasion on the seal. So I promptly called up Kerry and he
> reports that he sees about 50 582s per year, and the vast majority of
cross
> shaft leaking problems come from guys that have used tap water to mix
their
> coolant.
>
> However there have been some reported problems even when the operator
was
> using distilled. This drove the engineers in Austria nuts for a while
> because there were virtually no reported cross shaft leakage problems in
> Europe, until someone realized that virtually all antifreeze in Europe is
> phosphate/silicate free while the US is still using phosphates and
silicates
> in antifreeze, apparently as some sort of blending agent. Kerry reports
that
> if you are using regular aluminum compatible antifreeze and distilled
water
> per the manual you can still precipitate out enough grit to buy yourself a
> problem. This is obviously what the white stuff is in the bottom of my
> overflow line.
>
> Lockwood is recommending Havoline extended life antifreeze. It's
orange.
> I know there was a thread on this subject a while back, and I bought some
> silicate free antifreeze, thinking I'd switch when I got around to it.
You
> can bet I'll be swapping the old stuff out pretty soon now.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lift
>
>
> >
> >Topher, what about reflexed wings like the Kasperwing where the
> trailing edge is curved upwards? Does it blow the air down?
> >
> >Ralph
>
>
> only when they are making lift. the trailing edge curves up to
> provide pitch trim in a flying wing. the wing is still at an angle of
> attack to make lift. For those who refuse to believe that lift is made
by
> throwing air down i give up. I have done my best to explain and it
> apparently hasnt been good enough. I knew I should have left this one
> alone! back to lurk mode for me.
>
> Topher
Topher, sure but I'm not that dense. The reflexed trailing edge of the
Kasperwing, or any reflexed wing, deflects air upwards due to it's
reflex. So how can the downward wind theory work here?
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUnder1680(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 912 S powered Kolb MK3 |
This is my first posting so I hope Im doing it right. Im trying to find out
if anyone has installed a 912 S on a MK3.My plane is getting close to being
finished with the fusalage kit on its way from Kolb. I live in NewMexico so
we need a little more power because we take off @ 7000 Ft., if anyone has any
sugestions I would appreciate it.
Lee Underwood at RUnder1680(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>EVERYTHING - You ever wanted to know about "How a wing works" and "How a
>plane flys".
>Before we beat it to death.
<http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/title.html#mytoc>
Hey guys, sorry about the "beat it to death" smart-ass remark.
I read all the messages on the list. It was just an after-thought to get
some of you to click on that "Web site". Thought it would get your attention.
I think it is the best site on the internet about "How these things Work"
and I know if you'r like me, I don't click on every site that is sent to
me. Hope I got your attention, but didn't mean to upset anybody.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
Hello Kolber's,
I would like to thank everybody for the many responses on the outboard
rib reinforcement. Ya'll made the decision easy. I didn't need much of a
excuse to call Sue at the New Kolb Co. Kind of got carried away after I
started talking to her---think I spent about $500. Oh yea, we laughed
talking about some of Big Lar's antics too.
On a more serious note, I have some more questions. I've heard people
call theirselves butchers and so forth on this list but I beleave I have got
everbody beat. Take today for instance. I have all the tail feathers and
wings and so forth built and was assembling the plane so I could align the
aileron horns and counter balances. After getting this done I figured I
would fold the wings just to look things over and see where the wing fold
tube will fit in the fusalage tube. Well the wings didn't want to fold all
the way up next to the tail feathers. Upon closer inspection I could see
that the steel inboard rib was binding against the lock nut on the universal
joint. I turned the bolt around in the universal joint since the head
doesn't protrude as much, but it still rubbed. Here's where I really got
stupid. I decided to grind a little bit of the bolt head off and to grind a
small notch in the steel inboard rib with my dremal tool. Well I wound up
with a hole in the bottom steel inboard rib just below where the drag strut
fitting is welded to the steel rib. Does this part of the rib see much
force? I don't know exactly what to do. Also after grinding the main spar
tab per the plans so that it don't bind with the wing tip on the ground I
have about 3/16" of metal from the edge of the main spar pin hole. Does this
sound right. Sorry for the long post but I need some advice on what to do.
Thanks.
Later,
John Cooley
Building FS II #1162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
The reflexed trailing edge of the
>Kasperwing, or any reflexed wing, deflects air upwards due to it's
>reflex. So how can the downward wind theory work here?
>
>Ralph
think of an s shaped duct. takes air in at the top of the s. brings it
down to the bottom of the s. throws it out the back with a bit of upward
motion. still the overall effect of the s duct is to bring the air down a
bunch, even if at the end it gives it a tiny kick up. That website is
really good by the way (not just cause it backs me up completely!) give it
a read if your still interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
Uh Oh ! ! ! I think I represent that remark. What price fame ??? I hope
you were laughing 'with,' and not 'at.' Paranoid Lar.
On a more serious note, John, I seem to remember a similar problem on
Vamoose, but it's been so long that I'll have to go out in the morning and
take a look. Gonna have to finish this tarnation thing one of these years.
Seems like the fittings were longer one way than the other or something.
Switched things around till they fit. Hang in there till the A.M.
Problem I've run into, and haven't yet cured is the lexan section between
the wings. ( Gap seal ?? ) When I fold the ( as yet un-covered ) wings,
the trailing edges contact the gap seal and bend it way up. Looks like
surgery is a necessity, cause the fabric will certainly not stand that.
While on lexan, I've mentioned before that I'm copying Ron Christensen of Mk
III 1/2 fame, and mounting that gap seal permanently. More ( ! ! ! )
problems. Lot's of them, of which one of the main ones was bending a 2'
long strip of lexan 90 degrees. Tried clamping it between the edges of 2
sheets of plywood, heating it with a heat gun, and putting all the force I
could with heavily gloved hands. Did a real good job of messing up a
perfectly good piece of lexan. That stuff is Tough ! ! ! Tried bending a
small scrap a tight 90 in the vice with a hammer, like it was metal, and it
worked fine. So, with the new sheet marked out, I took it to a sheet metal
shop, and had them bend it on the brake. Perfection, with no effort, and it
only cost $5.00. Big Lar.
P.S. Ron's plane was a real inspiration. What a beautiful job ! ! ! I
copied several of his ideas.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Outboard rib reinforcement
>
> Hello Kolber's,
> I would like to thank everybody for the many responses on the outboard
> rib reinforcement. Ya'll made the decision easy. I didn't need much of a
> excuse to call Sue at the New Kolb Co. Kind of got carried away after I
> started talking to her---think I spent about $500. Oh yea, we laughed
> talking about some of Big Lar's antics too.
> On a more serious note, I have some more questions. I've heard people
> call theirselves butchers and so forth on this list but I beleave I have
got
> everbody beat. Take today for instance. I have all the tail feathers and
> wings and so forth built and was assembling the plane so I could align the
> aileron horns and counter balances. After getting this done I figured I
> would fold the wings just to look things over and see where the wing fold
> tube will fit in the fusalage tube. Well the wings didn't want to fold all
> the way up next to the tail feathers. Upon closer inspection I could see
> that the steel inboard rib was binding against the lock nut on the
universal
> joint. I turned the bolt around in the universal joint since the head
> doesn't protrude as much, but it still rubbed. Here's where I really got
> stupid. I decided to grind a little bit of the bolt head off and to grind
a
> small notch in the steel inboard rib with my dremal tool. Well I wound up
> with a hole in the bottom steel inboard rib just below where the drag
strut
> fitting is welded to the steel rib. Does this part of the rib see much
> force? I don't know exactly what to do. Also after grinding the main spar
> tab per the plans so that it don't bind with the wing tip on the ground I
> have about 3/16" of metal from the edge of the main spar pin hole. Does
this
> sound right. Sorry for the long post but I need some advice on what to do.
> Thanks.
>
> Later,
> John Cooley
> Building FS II #1162
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
Does anyone know if you should use plexi glass or lexan to make a gap seal
for a Firestar, and what did you use to glue the velcro. Also looking for
any good tips on bending to fit wing. Thanks Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
I would get someone with a lot of experience, like an old time homebuilder
in metal tubing, well respected, and preferably an A & P, to come and look
at it, to see if it still looks acceptable.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
I decided to grind a little bit of the bolt head off and to grind a
>small notch in the steel inboard rib with my dremal tool. Well I wound up
>with a hole in the bottom steel inboard rib just below where the drag strut
>fitting is welded to the steel rib. Does this part of the rib see much
>force? I don't know exactly what to do. Also after grinding the main spar
>tab per the plans so that it don't bind with the wing tip on the ground I
>have about 3/16" of metal from the edge of the main spar pin hole. Does this
>sound right. Sorry for the long post but I need some advice on what to do.
>Thanks.
>
>Later,
>John Cooley
>Building FS II #1162
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
Use Lexan. It doesn't break like Plexiglass does. Never use "Acrylic", it
breaks just looking at it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
>
>Does anyone know if you should use plexi glass or lexan to make a gap seal
>for a Firestar, and what did you use to glue the velcro. Also looking for
>any good tips on bending to fit wing. Thanks Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Randy,
Lexan is the right material. It is almost unbreakable. Plexi glass will
break into sharp pieces and be dangerous.
John Jung
Randy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if you should use plexi glass or lexan to make a gap seal
> for a Firestar, and what did you use to glue the velcro. Also looking for
> any good tips on bending to fit wing. Thanks Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 04/04/00 |
Hello all "Kolbers" I welcome all to come by my booth spot "C" Paradise
City, 10' X 20' Canopy, so will have lots of shade :-) Will discuss AOA
general usefulness and of course show you my new system. Special during SnF
check website www.riteangle.com
Hope to meet some of you there!
Elbie Mendenhall
EM aviation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lindy" <lindy(at)snowhill.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 04/04/00 |
For Elbie
Will stop by Friday before all the crowd shows up,
I will bring you a replacement blue Ultralight weather flight
predictor-Ordered 5000 replacements-have about 100 left-Afraid to mention
this FREE antique 100 % ultralight indicator that works Thousands of
satisfied ultralighters nationally and internationally, on the Kolb list
because they will think I am Nuts!.
Lindy
LA-Lower Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
> >
> > Also, let me know when you're going to shrink the fabric, I have a
> procedure
> > to very much lessen the tendency for the fabric to "trough" between the
> nose
> > ribs.
>
I'm talking about when you are ready to shrink the main wing fabric.........
We'll be in Lakeland at Sun-'n-Fun in a few days, so if anyone needs
anything, call us at the number below, & it's forwarded to our cell phone.
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.aircrafttechsupport.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | BR8ES resistor plugs |
Kolbers:
I have a little bit of trouble with ignition noise from my 582 getting
into my Yasu handheld radio. I recently got a recommendation to go with
BR8ES plugs as opposed to B8ES plugs which I have been running up until now.
Is there any downside to making this switch? I understand that there is also
a resistor plug cap available from Rotax. What are the trade offs associated
with using both the resistor plug and the resistor cap?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BR8ES resistor plugs |
In a message dated 4/5/00 9:21:08 AM, Cavuontop(at)aol.com writes:
<< I recently got a recommendation to go with
BR8ES plugs as opposed to B8ES plugs which I have been running up until now.
Is there any downside to making this switch? I understand that there is also
a resistor plug cap available from Rotax. What are the trade offs associated
with using both the resistor plug and the resistor cap? >>
I use both and have no problems. As I understand it there are two types of
resistor caps. If you use resistor plugs then you should use the lower value
of resistor cap. Don't recall the values but I'm sure you'll get them from
the list.
Bill G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
>
>Maybe not! But could we please discuss dead stick landings?
>I had an engine out, screwd up and bent my landing gear on my MkIII.
>
>Martin.
>
>
4 rules.. 1. maintain airspeed and 2. if unsure of your skills and
conditions permit land a bit faster than usual. No point trying for a full
stall landing. 3. you can not glide farther by pulling the stick back 4.
maintain airspeed
woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BR8ES resistor plugs |
>
>Kolbers:
>
> I have a little bit of trouble with ignition noise from my 582 getting
>into my Yasu handheld radio. I recently got a recommendation to go with
>BR8ES plugs as opposed to B8ES plugs which I have been running up until
now.
>Is there any downside to making this switch? I understand that there is
also
>a resistor plug cap available from Rotax. What are the trade offs
associated
>with using both the resistor plug and the resistor cap?
Not to supposed to use both, at the same time. However they used to have a
metal splark plug cap that does the same thing, but doesn't cut down the
spark, or voltage, or whatever the normal resistor caps do-it just acts
like a shield. Proabably it might be a good idea to shield your wires with
the slide on "mesh" and ground it to the engine if you havn't already done so.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 S powered Kolb MK3 |
>
>The Wood Brothers in Cartersville Ga both have 912's one on a slingshot, the
>other on a MK111, last sat I had the pleasure of watching both of them being
>flown.
>In one word AWSOME both of them. If I can get some pictures of them I will
>E_mail them to whom ever wants them.
>
>Doug Wannabe a KOLB flyer.
You can borrow my new digital camera I got for work, if you want.
Give me a call. I'm on the GSF members list and based 4 miles south of
Cartersville Airport.
I haven't seen them yet but I hear they have done a heck of a finish
job/paint job, maybe as good as Russell's? Of course John helped them so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the list about this. I
printed out your message, so that I'd have an in hand reference out there,
and went to it. I'm not sure how you're hanging up, unless you really
seated the aft fitting deep into the drag strut end. Mine has plenty of
clearance for folding. Anyone else ?? Also, my forward wing tabs have
about 3/16" on one side, and 5/16" on the other. With sitting outside,
there's a little rust on there now, and the 3/16" doesn't look like any too
much. Any one again ?? TNK ?? On cutting your inboard steel rib, I'd be
real spooky. There's a lot of stress there. My feeling would be to replace
the rib, and make adjustments somewhere else. Talk to TNK.
Sorry to chicken out on you. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Outboard rib reinforcement
>
> Hello Kolber's,
> I would like to thank everybody for the many responses on the outboard
> rib reinforcement. Ya'll made the decision easy. I didn't need much of a
> excuse to call Sue at the New Kolb Co. Kind of got carried away after I
> started talking to her---think I spent about $500. Oh yea, we laughed
> talking about some of Big Lar's antics too.
> On a more serious note, I have some more questions. I've heard people
> call theirselves butchers and so forth on this list but I beleave I have
got
> everbody beat. Take today for instance. I have all the tail feathers and
> wings and so forth built and was assembling the plane so I could align the
> aileron horns and counter balances. After getting this done I figured I
> would fold the wings just to look things over and see where the wing fold
> tube will fit in the fusalage tube. Well the wings didn't want to fold all
> the way up next to the tail feathers. Upon closer inspection I could see
> that the steel inboard rib was binding against the lock nut on the
universal
> joint. I turned the bolt around in the universal joint since the head
> doesn't protrude as much, but it still rubbed. Here's where I really got
> stupid. I decided to grind a little bit of the bolt head off and to grind
a
> small notch in the steel inboard rib with my dremal tool. Well I wound up
> with a hole in the bottom steel inboard rib just below where the drag
strut
> fitting is welded to the steel rib. Does this part of the rib see much
> force? I don't know exactly what to do. Also after grinding the main spar
> tab per the plans so that it don't bind with the wing tip on the ground I
> have about 3/16" of metal from the edge of the main spar pin hole. Does
this
> sound right. Sorry for the long post but I need some advice on what to do.
> Thanks.
>
> Later,
> John Cooley
> Building FS II #1162
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
>
>I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the list about this.
With sitting outside,
>there's a little rust on there now, and the 3/16" doesn't look like any too
>much.
Rust-hell Larry, there anin't going to be nothin left to cover in a few
more years.
Just kiddin guys.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/5/00 10:48:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard(at)BCChapel.org writes:
<< Does anyone know if you should use plexi glass or lexan to make a gap seal
>for a Firestar, and what did you use to glue the velcro. >>
I found Velcro in 1" & 2" wide with adhesive already on it. Available in
black & white.
I used 2" on the wing [put it anywhere the gapseal is likely to rub] and 1"
on the gapseal. If you are going to remove the gapseal often then you could
pop rivet the velcro on the ends to the gapseal.
Speaking of Lexan Gapseal- I am only 6' 0" tall, but with my Comtronics
helmet on, it vibrated up against the gapseal [noise]. Remedy- I got a big
clear plastic bowl from Wal-mart about 12" in Diameter, cut a 11 1/2" Dia.
hole in gapseal [next to aluminum leading edge], and pop-riveted the bowl
up-side down inside the gapseal. Use aliminum pop-rivets with the big heads
& backing plates to minimize cracking of the Lexan & plastic.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Randy,
My fabric gap seal gave out last spring and I was forced to make one out
of lexan for my Original FireStar. There are plans for this, contact Kolb
to get this and the formed aluminum LE piece. I used the sticky-backed
velcro to attach it. I also installed a couple of small eye bolts to the
bottom of the lexan (just ahead of the engine) and found a mini-bungee to
hook into the eye bolts wrapped around the main tube. Move the bungee aft
once it's in place. I didn't want to trust the velcro to hold the lexan
down in the rear.
Ralph Burlingame
Original FireStar
>
> Does anyone know if you should use plexi glass or lexan to make a
> gap seal
> for a Firestar, and what did you use to glue the velcro. Also
> looking for
> any good tips on bending to fit wing. Thanks Randy
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inboard rib reinforcement |
| From: | Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> |
John,
Since replacing the inboard rib would be a monumental task, I would
consult an A & P type about welding a sleeve reinforcement over the area
where you weakened the rib.
On my Mark III I had a problem with the wings not being free to fold
inward due to an incorrect dimension on the inside section of the
universal. Kolb replaced them with the correct part.
L. Ray Baker
Lake Butler, Fl
Building Mark III, SN M1156--N629RB
writes:
>
> Hello Kolber's,
>
> stupid. I decided to grind a little bit of the bolt head off and to
> grind a
> small notch in the steel inboard rib with my dremal tool. Well I
> wound up
> with a hole in the bottom steel inboard rib just below where the
> drag strut
> fitting is welded to the steel rib. Does this part of the rib see
> much
> force?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis & Diane Kirby <kirbyd(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Baggage Compartment |
Dear Kolbers -
I am thinking of installing a modest cargo sling in the aft area of the
fuselage pod in my Mark-III. I have a couple of questions that I'm
hoping the collective experience of this List may help me answer:
I'm planning to install this cargo sling in the area immediately aft of
the fuel tanks. Ample room while still keeping stuff off the aileron
torque tube. Instructions say to fabric cover over the top of this
area. I see sufficient volume there to install a simple net or webbing
sling, maybe large enough for a couple of small duffle bags. I have
seen a few pictures of Kolbs that have used this empty volume for cargo
carrying (Cliff Stripling's hinged-top box comes to mind).
1) Will this cause some sort of dangerous disruption of airflow (i.e.,
overpressure in the aft inside area) if flown with the doors removed and
this spot left open? (I remember the stories from some years ago of a
few CGS Hawks loosing aerodynamic controllability when flown with doors
removed!)
If nobody convinces me that this is a bad idea, I think I'd like to use
nylon webbing for this purpose. You've seen it: inch-wide nylon strips
sewn together in a grid, three inches between stips, like the troop seat
backs in C-130s and such.
2) Anybody know where I can get this kind of webbing?
Any advice will be helpful. Thanks -
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, s/n 300, approx 78% finished in
Cedar Crest, New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment |
>1) Will this cause some sort of dangerous disruption of airflow (i.e.,
>overpressure in the aft inside area) if flown with the doors removed and
>this spot left open? (I remember the stories from some years ago of a
>few CGS Hawks loosing aerodynamic controllability when flown with doors
>removed!)
I think you will be fine for airflow, but keep an eye on your CG, if you are
putting significant weight way back there you could get into an aft cg
situation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Old Poops Web Page |
Have been fooling around making a web page of my Kolb MKIII, and finally
got it done.
Has some other airplane shots also, and even a couple pictures of the two
Old Poops when they were young and racey.
Tried to keep the pictures small, so it would load quick, but still big
enough to see.
Comments and suggestions on how to make it better ("Tweaks and Hints?") are
invited.
Also, I don't think there are any bad links in it, but I mighta' missed one...
Thanks,
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/kolb.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment |
The instructions that come with the clear plastic cover that goes behind
your head and is held on with velcro, say to remove that cover if you're
going to fly with the doors off. Otherwise the air pressure will blow it
out and back into the prop. If you follow the plans, and cover the area
behind the seats and tanks, and mount your baggage holder below that cover,
you shouldn't have any problem. For webbing, a Wal-mart or K-mart should
have something sufficient, like lawn chair webbing or some such. If you
want the real good stuff, go to a sporting goods store, and get the
mountaineers sling webbing. Kinda over-kill............... Then
again, maybe you could get seat belt webbing for next to nothing from a
wrecking yard. A friend in Port Angeles who built a Capella put a sling
behind the seats, and adapted a small hikers' day pack to hang on it.
Things didn't fall out, and it served double duty. Handy ! ! !
We'll talk to my........uh........buddies.........about rust a little later.
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis & Diane Kirby <kirbyd(at)flash.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 10:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Baggage Compartment
>
> Dear Kolbers -
>
> I am thinking of installing a modest cargo sling in the aft area of the
> fuselage pod in my Mark-III. I have a couple of questions that I'm
> hoping the collective experience of this List may help me answer:
>
> I'm planning to install this cargo sling in the area immediately aft of
> the fuel tanks. Ample room while still keeping stuff off the aileron
> torque tube. Instructions say to fabric cover over the top of this
> area. I see sufficient volume there to install a simple net or webbing
> sling, maybe large enough for a couple of small duffle bags. I have
> seen a few pictures of Kolbs that have used this empty volume for cargo
> carrying (Cliff Stripling's hinged-top box comes to mind).
>
> 1) Will this cause some sort of dangerous disruption of airflow (i.e.,
> overpressure in the aft inside area) if flown with the doors removed and
> this spot left open? (I remember the stories from some years ago of a
> few CGS Hawks loosing aerodynamic controllability when flown with doors
> removed!)
>
> If nobody convinces me that this is a bad idea, I think I'd like to use
> nylon webbing for this purpose. You've seen it: inch-wide nylon strips
> sewn together in a grid, three inches between stips, like the troop seat
> backs in C-130s and such.
>
> 2) Anybody know where I can get this kind of webbing?
>
> Any advice will be helpful. Thanks -
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-III, s/n 300, approx 78% finished in
> Cedar Crest, New Mexico
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage Compartment |
Keep in mind that anything not held by the webbing is going through your prop.
I suggest
that you use at least a zippered nylon bag with a way to secure the zipper.
John Jung
> >1) Will this cause some sort of dangerous disruption of airflow (i.e.,
> >overpressure in the aft inside area) if flown with the doors removed and
> >this spot left open? (I remember the stories from some years ago of a
> >few CGS Hawks loosing aerodynamic controllability when flown with doors
> >removed!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Old Poops Web Page |
Great page!!!
I appreciate this kind of site for the motivation and daydreaming. I know
now that they do take time to make and it's not easy so thanks a ton!!!!
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
P.S. to whom it may concern...there are some other "well traveled" Kolb
gurus that need to put up a web page and show the rest of us some pictures
of some of those "travels"... Hey , (insert appropriate names here) , there
are several folks on the list that would help so give the word!?!?!?
P.P.S. Don't mean that rude...just an honest plea to (insert appropriate
names here)!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
Hey Kolbers,
Thanks Big Lar, Richard and Ray for the responses and advice. I will
probably get one of the boys down at South Mississippi Light Aircraft to
take a look and make some kind of weld repair. I thought about replacing the
whole inboard rib, but that seems like overkill and a lot of rivet removing
that I don't like doing. I will definitely do something as I'm not
comfortable with it like it is. I'm still not sure why I had this contact
between the two points. I did seat the drag strut end fittings a little
deeper than the plans call for (1/16~1/8") but not enough to cause the
amount of interference I'm getting. I will check with TNK and see if there
is a different universal joint I can use. If I extend the drag strut fitting
out more then I will also have to weld a new tab on the steel rib where it
pins at the front of the cage in order to make the wings align across the
trailing edge. Am I missing something here. Maybe I'm making it harder than
it should be. How about Dennis Souder. Maybe you could shed some light here
it your monitoring the list. Thanks!
Later,
John Cooley
Building (butchering) FS #1162
>
> I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the list about this. I
> printed out your message, so that I'd have an in hand reference out there,
> and went to it. I'm not sure how you're hanging up, unless you really
> seated the aft fitting deep into the drag strut end. Mine has plenty of
> clearance for folding. Anyone else ?? Also, my forward wing tabs have
> about 3/16" on one side, and 5/16" on the other.
There's a lot of stress there. My feeling would be to replace
> the rib, and make adjustments somewhere else. Talk to TNK.
> Sorry to chicken out on you. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Scott <steve_scott(at)mcg.mot.com> |
resistor plugs worked very well in my application to silence
radio noise from my 503.
i don't know how well the resistor caps would work, but i would
think they would work well and they would save you lot's of money
in the long run.
--
Steve Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Here's the latest, and probably last, episode in the lawn chair tubing
struts. Good for her for following through on it, and for him on a good
reply. I included my reply to her. Any thoughts ?? How many of you read
the original article ?? Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Struts
> Hi Mary: Thanks for the response and concern. Running my letter along
> with Steve's response would be fine with me, as long as the original text
of
> that portion of the article is included. People's memories are short, and
> I'd dislike being thought of as an alarmist without cause.
Larry
> Bourne Cathedral City, CA.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Jones <mjones(at)eaa.org>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 7:23 AM
> Subject: FW: Struts
>
>
> > Dear Larry,
> >
> > Here's the response I received from Steve Eldredge regarding the
aluminum
> > strut he used on his Pietenpol. I think this will clear up the
confusion.
> > In case others had the same impression as you, I'd like to run your
letter
> > and his response in the Letters to Editor column. Do you have any
problem
> > with that?
> >
> > Thanks for your concern!
> >
> > Mary
> > > ----------
> > > From: Steve Eldredge
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2000 10:36 AM
> > > To: 'mjones(at)eaa.org'
> > > Subject: Struts
> > >
> > > <>
> > >
> > > Hi Mary,
> > >
> > > The article Building on a Budget has been a hit. I have had many
emails
> > > and
> > > several letters. I received the snail mail containing Larry Bournes
> > > concern
> > > about using "aluminum chair tubing". You would die (most likely on
the
> > > first flight) if you used what
> > > comes to mind when one says "aluminum chair tubing" (I Picture a
cheap
> > > fold
> > > up aluminum picnic chair with nylon webbing....) Scares me too.
> > >
> > > What I did say was....
> > >
> > > "...I found an aluminum extrusion at a friend's chair factory that was
a
> > > perfect fit. ... saved $800 by substituting the aluminum struts for
the
> > > streamlined chromoly."
> > >
> > > All strut braced Cessna's use an AL extrusion for there lift struts as
> > > well.
> > > I checked the alloy and wall thickness and determined that the
material
> > > was
> > > adequate for the application with a safety factor of 6, for each strut
> (of
> > > which there are 4). I also had an independent engineer check the
> material
> > > and he found it suitable. The last thing to fail on this plane will
be
> > > the
> > > struts.
> > >
> > > I dug around the shop and found a cut off and snapped a pic to help
> > > clarify
> > > what I used. I have had many requests, but the material is no longer
> > > available.
> > >
> > > Hope this answers the question, and dispels Larry's fear,
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Steve Eldredge
> > > <>
> > >
> > > PS> Many others have asked about the Latex painting. Maybe an article
> on
> > > that would be of use?
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Scott <steve_scott(at)mcg.mot.com> |
Anyone building a MkIII in Arizona? Any dealers out here? Please
send email or post. Thanks.
--
Steve Scott
Motorola Computer Group
602-438-3540
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BR8ES resistor plugs |
I made he switch about a month ago with great results, but if you use the
resistor plugs BE SURE to use the low resistence metal caps!
Jim
Mark III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
John,
Had a very similar experience on the right wing. I seated the drag strut
fitting too deep, but that was the position where the wings came into
alignment. Spent many hours using a water level, and with the help of a
neighbor who is a mason - builds 200 foot long walls straight and true - got
things lined up.
I have a slight dent in the bottom of the inboard rib because the first time
I folded them, it pinched the steel tube on the head of the bolt - I didn't
even feel the contact happening.
My thought at the time was that if I changed the drag strut fitting, I would
have to rig again, including re drilling the main spar attach points, and
welding etc... I'm not planning to fold the wings much, so I'm not really
worried about it. If someone knows what I did wrong, I would love to hear
it - I've given up trying to figure it out.
After folding and unfolding the wings 5 or 6 times, it seems to me that it's
kind of precarious to have your plane in the folded state. I'm not saying
it's a bad folding design, just that the plane is naturally stable with the
wing struts etc... in place.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cooley <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Outboard rib reinforcement
>
>Hey Kolbers,
> Thanks Big Lar, Richard and Ray for the responses and advice. I will
>probably get one of the boys down at South Mississippi Light Aircraft to
>take a look and make some kind of weld repair. I thought about replacing
the
>whole inboard rib, but that seems like overkill and a lot of rivet removing
>that I don't like doing. I will definitely do something as I'm not
>comfortable with it like it is. I'm still not sure why I had this contact
>between the two points. I did seat the drag strut end fittings a little
>deeper than the plans call for (1/16~1/8") but not enough to cause the
>amount of interference I'm getting. I will check with TNK and see if there
>is a different universal joint I can use. If I extend the drag strut
fitting
>out more then I will also have to weld a new tab on the steel rib where it
>pins at the front of the cage in order to make the wings align across the
>trailing edge. Am I missing something here. Maybe I'm making it harder than
>it should be. How about Dennis Souder. Maybe you could shed some light here
>it your monitoring the list. Thanks!
>
>
>Later,
>John Cooley
>Building (butchering) FS #1162
>
>>
>> I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the list about this. I
>> printed out your message, so that I'd have an in hand reference out
there,
>> and went to it. I'm not sure how you're hanging up, unless you really
>> seated the aft fitting deep into the drag strut end. Mine has plenty of
>> clearance for folding. Anyone else ?? Also, my forward wing tabs
have
>> about 3/16" on one side, and 5/16" on the other.
>There's a lot of stress there. My feeling would be to replace
>> the rib, and make adjustments somewhere else. Talk to TNK.
>> Sorry to chicken out on you. Big Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Poops Web Page |
Well personally I am more interested in what the two old poops look like
now, I mean, how would we know who you are today?????? :-)
Larry
----------
> From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Old Poops Web Page
> Date: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 10:32 PM
>
>
> Have been fooling around making a web page of my Kolb MKIII, and finally
> got it done.
> Has some other airplane shots also, and even a couple pictures of the two
> Old Poops when they were young and racey.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
I have placed Vortex Generators on the wings of my Firestar I & have
experienced a 5mph reduction in my stall speed as well as a reduction in fuel
burn. I made these VG's myself for under $20. If anyone on the list would
like the information, I will either fax or mail it to you. I cannot email it
[I tried]. I have already sent this to several members of this list; it will
be interesting to see if others get similar results to mine.
I am not charging for this, but if I get more than about 20 requests I'll
have to charge $1 or $2 to cover postage, envelopes, copies, or long distance
phone charges.
Bye..
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Old Poops Web Page |
My apologies to anyone that got sent on a wild goose chase:
I found a misspelled word on one page, and another one didn't link right,
so last night I uploaded a revision. But it went to the wrong folder...
Bummer. Knocked out everyone elses home page on that site, and then didn't
agree with the address I thought it would have.
(That'll teach the webmaster to trust me with the password!)
Anyway, the webmaster restored everything, and I uploaded my site to the
correct place, I think it works now, and the correct address is below.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm
or just go to
http://www.bcchapel.org/
and explore the site, and you'll find it, and also check out the King James
Dictionary I wrote last month.
(Somebody old enough to remember what those antiquated and disused words
meant back when he was young ought to be the one to write a dictionary,
right?)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Poops Web Page |
Last picture, last page.
rp
>
>Well personally I am more interested in what the two old poops look like
>now, I mean, how would we know who you are today?????? :-)
>Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | NOTICE: Matronics Web Server Back Online... |
Dear Email Listers,
The Matronics Web and FTP server is finally back online! What a
nightmare... But at least its finally done and in all honesty the
system is running much better. Everything should be working now
including the Search Engine, Archive Browser, various List-related
pages, Matronics Product Pages, Online Ordering, Real Video server
and Contribution pages.
Again, I'm sorry it took so long to get things back - way longer than I
ever intended.
Have fun!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outboard rib reinforcement |
Hi Chirs and Kolbers,
Sounds like you experienced exactly what I'm going through except that I
will be folding my wings quite regular. I just got through talking to the
TNK and they are sending me a universal joint to compare to mine. They said
some of the earlier model kits got shipped with universal joints that had
the hole drilled in the center of the outboard (part b) universal joint
piece. This hole (the hole that attaches to the inboard universal piece) is
supposed to be offset which will provide clearance in the place that I need
it. The hole in mine is not centered but it is not offset much either so I
will keep ya'll posted on the outcome. In the meantime I'm just going to get
South Ms Light Aircraft to weld up my steel rib. New ones are about 125
dollars apiece, not to mention the aggravation of taking the old one off and
installing the new one.
Later,
John Cooley
Building FS II #1162
> Had a very similar experience on the right wing. I seated the drag strut
> fitting too deep, but that was the position where the wings came into
> alignment. Spent many hours using a water level, and with the help of a
> neighbor who is a mason - builds 200 foot long walls straight and true -
got
> things lined up.
>
> I have a slight dent in the bottom of the inboard rib because the first
time
> I folded them, it pinched the steel tube on the head of the bolt - I
didn't
> even feel the contact happening.
>
> My thought at the time was that if I changed the drag strut fitting, I
would
> have to rig again, including re drilling the main spar attach points, and
> welding etc... I'm not planning to fold the wings much, so I'm not really
> worried about it. If someone knows what I did wrong, I would love to hear
> it - I've given up trying to figure it out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AUDREY LEWIS <audreylewis(at)planters.net> |
| Subject: | Fire Fly For Sale |
Kobbers and wantobe's.
Kolb Fire Fly for sale. $13,900. This Firefly is second to none in
appearance and performance. It has a Rotax 447, BRS 750 Soft chute, heel
brakes, full inclosure and summer windshields, CHT, EGT, TACH, COMPASS and
AIR SPEED. It also has three position Flaperons that are very effective.
It's yellow with red trim. It has a wooden prop. Total time is 73 hrs.
The Rotax has single carb and single electronic ignition. Five gal fuel
tank. It has never slept outdoors and has only been tailored once. Only
reason for selling it is to get a Mark !!!. Can show you receipts where I
have considerably more invested in this plane. You can't build one your
self any nicer or for less money! If you want to get into flying with a
safe trouble free low maintenance plane, this is the one!!!
Audrey Lewis
234 Johnson, Dr.
Sylvania, Ga. 30467
PH: 912 564 2218
Located on home strip On U S 301 highway half way between Savannah and
Augusta. Twenty miles South of the SC state line.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Old Poops Web Page |
In a message dated 4/7/00 1:19:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard(at)BCChapel.org writes:
<< http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm >>
Enjoyed your web pages. Keep up the good work.
Merle
Twinstar in Orlando
now building FireFly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
Good job TNK, and especially Sue; now I
>can go to those airshows in style. Sue, I'll get that form back
>to you soonest. Happy Lar. Do not
>Archive.
I am a bit confused on this. How can you go in style if your Mk111 is not
finished?
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aeroplace(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wanted BRS 750# Softpack Parachute |
If anybody out there in Kolb Land has a 750 lb. BRS softpack parachute they
would like to sell please contact me.
Thanks,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Volum" <ibimiami(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Mk III Tailwheel |
I need to change the Tailwheel on my Mk III.
The one Kolb now carries seems a bit steep to me at $255.00! Have any of
you found a suitable aftermarket substitute?
I've seen an Italian model in the Aircraft Spruce catalog that may be
adaptable to the Mk III for about half that price (Marc-Ingegno Tailwheel,
5" solid tire, steerable with leaf spring, 3.16 Lbs, P/N 06-01630, $143.70).
My DAR suggested I use a shopping cart wheel, but apart from being to
"undignified" to do that to a Kolb, even if it could take the abuse it would
take serious modifications to make it steerable.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Trailers |
The subject of trailers has come up from time to time, and for those of you
who happen to live in Florida,Ocala area more specifically,a trip to see
Richard Swerderski's creation would be well worth your time! Thanx for the
tour Richard.G. Aman FS2-#1274 37hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VORTEX GENERATORS |
Hi, List. I have received over 20 requests for my VG's and have faxed or
mailed over 10 already; the rest will go out Saturday.
A respected list member has offered to post the drawings after his return
from S & F, so, if you haven't already sent me your fax # or address then you
may want to wait for his return. If you just can't wait [I understand], just
let me know. Bye...
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Original Firestar kolb |
In a message dated 3/31/00 8:40:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yamaha(at)cvn.net
writes:
<< Does anyone have any pictures of a BRS VLS chute mounted on Firestar, BRS
claims it hasn't been done. Thanks
>>
If the VLS is the softpack, I have one mounted under the tube under the gas
tank pointed out to the side and back and down a few degrees...and I built a
polystyrene box around it and paintd the whole getup ...including the plane
with waterbase urethane hi gloss...worked pretty good...not the chute....hope
never!
GeoR38...KX firestar
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pre-coat of Poly-brush or Poly-tak |
Listers,
I am getting ready to start covering my elevators. I have watched the video
and read the Stits manual and the Kolb manual. I am not sure which one to
follow.
The Stits manual specifies pre-coating glue areas with 2 coats of thinned
poly-brush.
The Kolb Manual specifies pre-coating glue edges with a thin coat of poly-tak.
The covering video does not mention anything about a pre-coat.
I am thinking that the Stits manual is working on the basis of heavier,
faster, and "certified" aircraft for its recommendation of 2 pre-coats of
thinned Poly-brush. This is probably not a big deal to most of you. This is
my first time with fabric covering and I am a little (make that a lot) unsure
of myself.
Any help the list would be appreciated. If you read this in the next few
days - sorry you couldn't go to Sun-n-Fun like me. I'd call Jim & Dondi but
they are at Sun-n-Fun.
Thanks in advance,
John Bickham
St. Francisville, LA
Mark III - M3-308
N308JB (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III Tailwheel |
>
>I need to change the Tailwheel on my Mk III.
>
>
>Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>Peter
>
I have a suggestion. Quit modifying and start flying :) The tail wheel on
it has worked fine for a lot of people for a lot of years. It's to nice a
plane to be sitting in the warehouse.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Hudson" <phudson(at)iwvisp.com> |
| Subject: | I Finally got my Kolb |
Hi gang,
Well I'm no longer in lurker status. After months of selling the old Cobra
and looking for a Firestar II, I finally bought one. It's ready to go with
about 250 hours on the airframe. Now I have a couple of questions.
1) I plan to register it as experimental so I can legally take up
passengers. I'm concerned that the airworthiness inspection is going to be
tough since I don't have the contruction log or pictures from before the
wings were covered. Has anyone else out there certified someone elses
handy-work? How did the inspection go?
2) I didn't get the operating handbook or any instructions either. Does
any one have a weight and balance sheet for the Firestar II (wing and wheel
positions, allowable cg range, pilot, passenger, fuel positions etc.) I
plan to get all the data later I just want enough to get flying in a week or
two. I guess a spread sheet would be the easiest format.
3) a good first cut at Vx and Vy would be nice too. I plan to go find my Vs
on the first flight (I'm assuming about 30-35 mph stall).
Thanks for the help and for all the tips I've soaked up so far.
-Peter Hudson-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I Finally got my Kolb |
Peter,I have made two copies of my FS2 blueprints.If nobody is close to you
that has plans,give me your mailing address and I will send you the
weight&balance pages G. Aman FS2 #1274
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III Tailwheel |
I saw a nice tailwheel on a Mark III a couple of months ago. It rolls well
and makes it easier to move the plane, especially to move the tail from side
to side. It is on page 206 of the Aircraft Spruce 98-99 catalog, the "heavy
duty double fork 6" diameter full swivel/steerable" for $239. It seemed to
fit very easily without much work .
Jim
Mark III
103TS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
>
>A good challenge is a lot of fun, and motivational too,
when I get up at dawn and put in a couple of hours. I
>seldom do that anymore, even for my girlfriend, so what chance does a mere
>airplane have ?? How's that for creative snivelling ?? Your time is just
>starting there, I guess.
You would be surprised how much I have packed on my plate right now. It
would kill a lesser man (Hardy har har) If you want something done ask a
busy man.
I live near Windsor Ont. Just across the river from Detroit. So far south
in Canada I drive north to go to the USA. Sometimes when I turn final to my
airstrip I am on the American side of the border.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Hatcher" <clive_hatcher(at)connectfree.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Mk III Tailwheel |
Hi Peter,
I had the same problem as you have anticipated. At the airport I use I
have to taxi about 1.5 miles from the hanger to the runway threshold
on concrete taxiways. The standard narrow wheel with a cantilevered
axle (giving a slight tilt to the wheel) caused the tire to wear out
every 3 to 4 months. I tried the shopping cart type (plastic wheel
with solid tire) but the hub disintegrated after 6 flights.
I then decided to make my own design. This design is exactly like the
Kolb tailwheel but there are 2 down tubes welded to the cross tube
with the wheel mounted between them. The axle is mounted on the ends
of the 2 down tubes in the same way as on a bicycle. For the wheel I
used the solid tire from an industrial trolley wheel (5 inches
diameter by 1 inch wide), but made a split aluminum hub using the same
bearing as Kolb . This arrangement has now lasted for 2 years and the
tire is about half worn - a replacement tire costs about $5. The whole
assembly is about half a pound heavier than the standard assembly. I
can send a sketch of the design if it would be of use, but you would
need to adapt it to use components available in the US. Please e-mail
me direct if this would be of any use.
Clive Mk III/582
Original message:
------------------------
From: "Peter Volum" <ibimiami(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mk III Tailwheel
I need to change the Tailwheel on my Mk III.
The one Kolb now carries seems a bit steep to me at $255.00! Have any
of
you found a suitable aftermarket substitute?
I've seen an Italian model in the Aircraft Spruce catalog that may be
adaptable to the Mk III for about half that price (Marc-Ingegno
Tailwheel,
5" solid tire, steerable with leaf spring, 3.16 Lbs, P/N 06-01630,
$143.70).
My DAR suggested I use a shopping cart wheel, but apart from being to
"undignified" to do that to a Kolb, even if it could take the abuse it
would
take serious modifications to make it steerable.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis & Diane Kirby <kirbyd(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark-III Tailwheel |
Peter -
I installed an aftermarket replacement for my Mark-III Tailwheel.
It looks almost exactly like the one that comes from Kolb, with the
exception that it is one inch wide (instead of a half), and is 4 inches
in diameter instead of 5. Same hard plastic core, pressed bearings and
hard rubber outer as the original. The center is offset slightly, so it
still fits on the original half-inch diam axle.
I found this at a caster shop, here in town.
Cost was $11.
Take your tailwheel axle assembly to your local caster shop and try to
find the one that will work. If you cannot find one, let me know and
I'll try to dig up the make/model/serial number for you.
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com> |
Randy, I used lexan, just bent it by hand. Its tuff stuff. just for fun I
bent a 180 degree curve in a piece, than stood on the bend. It took a
permanent crease but did not crack or shatter. Plexiglass would.
Bob Doebler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com> |
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:50:17 -0400
Subject: Kolb-List: gap seal
fand what did you use to glue the velcro. Also looking for
any good tips on bending to fit wing. Thanks Randy
Randy, I did not use velcro to attach my gap seal. Wanted something
alittle more secure.I used cam-loc's. I used the "soft" side of the
velcro, just to protect the wing fabric from wear. If you look at the gap
seal from the side, it looks something like the letter "D". The right
side of the D is made out of .0010" aluminum, it has a cam- loc that
locks into the leading edge of both the right and left wing. The top and
bottom of the D is made of lexan, rivoted to the aluminum. At the top
back of the D, I rivoted an angle piece of aluminum, across the seal.
The vertical portion of the D is lexan, also rivoted to the aluminum.
The bottom rear, also has a piece of aluminum angle rivoted to the
vertical lexan, but it is cam-loc'ed to the bottom piece of lexan.
So when I put on my gap seal I spread it open over the main spar carry
through. Then cam loc it together, plus cam loc it at the leading edge.
It will not come off.
Hope this explanation helps
I'm not good at explaining, so if you have any questions, call me at
818-348-7075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | The RG battery has come to WalMart . . . |
As I was passing by the automotive battery rack in my
local WalMart yesterday, a particular product caught
my eye . . . it was a fairly heafty battery with the
grain-elevator like collection of cylindrical cell
housings.
I picked up a flyer on what is called the EverStart
Ultra, a totally sealed, jelly-roll style construction
RG battery. This is a big beast. I would guess it
to be between 25 and 35 a.h. in capacity. Can't
recommend this battery for many airplane applications.
The noteworthy points of this find are (1) RG technology
has found it's way into the most rudimentary of consumer
product streams and (2) the thing sells for $75. The
next thing to watch for is a line of smaller batteries
with the same technology for use in garden equipment
and perhaps even motorcycles.
Of course we don't know who makes this particular battery
for WalMart . . . it has the look and feel of an Optima
but given the age of the original patents by Gates
Energy Products on the Cyclon series jelly-roll cells,
this battery could be made by anybody. Only a test
in the marketplace will tell us if this battery is
worth the lead and plastic that holds it together.
It's not here yet but I believe it's a matter of time
before you can buy a better airplane battery from your
local WalMart than you can buy from any FBO . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GOOCHMAC(at)aol.com |
I need to get a radio for my plane. What is the difference between the Delcom
and the IC2? IC3? IC4?
I just need to talk--no navigation----I want something cheap!
Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
I have a delcom in my firestar. It puts out 6 watts and is clear as can be.
The difference is ease of use. There is a little thumbwheel that changes
the freq. If you put it in the right place it isn't too bad, however I
wouldn't suggest changing it too close to the ground. (I always fly where I
look) :-O
Larry
----------
> From: GOOCHMAC(at)aol.com
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Radio help
> Date: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:45 AM
>
>
> I need to get a radio for my plane. What is the difference between the
Delcom and the IC2? IC3? IC4?
> I just need to talk--no navigation----I want something cheap!
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BERNDSENCO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Parking brake on hydrolics |
Hi guys,
I am planning to replace the mechanical/hand lever brakes on my SlingShot
with the Matco hydraulic heel brakes to improve my short field landing
capabilities. The question I have: is there a parking brake setup for the
Matco hydraulic heel brakes? I currently am able to keep the hand lever
squeezed with a strap slipped over the stick and lever, giving me a parking
brake. I need a parking brake because I have to stand outside the cockpit
when pull starting the engine.
Jon Berndsen
SlingShot, 582, Warpdrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Parking brake on hydrolics |
Kinda reminds me of the red-necks favorite weapon - a tar arn. Do not
Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Parking brake on hydrolics
>
> Jon,
> Now, place chock under rt tire, prime/choke/whatever, sw on, throttle
> cracked. PULL, repeat until she fars up. Hop in. Belt up. Haul in chock.
> Taxi. Fly. Land. Almost like a (place favorite ethnic here) sex manual.
>
> bn aka The Grey Baron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Parking brake on hydrolics |
Get something simple, like a stick of wood that holds them down, something
you can't miss seeing when you get in, something unable to fall victim to
Murphy.
You want an idiot proof parking brake system, otherwise it may not entirely
release when you think it has, and then may still be on when you touch down
at your next landing. (Guess how I know that?) (No, it wasn't the MKIII)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>Hi guys,
>I am planning to replace the mechanical/hand lever brakes on my SlingShot
>with the Matco hydraulic heel brakes to improve my short field landing
>capabilities. The question I have: is there a parking brake setup for the
>Matco hydraulic heel brakes? I currently am able to keep the hand lever
>squeezed with a strap slipped over the stick and lever, giving me a parking
>brake. I need a parking brake because I have to stand outside the cockpit
>when pull starting the engine.
>
>Jon Berndsen
>SlingShot, 582, Warpdrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | We've got books! |
Just got a call from our printer . . . fresh Rev 9 books
are coming out the end of the pipe. Anyone who has a book
ordered with us or Andy Gold can expect to see it in the
mail pretty soon. Books will start leaving here tomorrow,
Andy will have his books probably by Friday.
Thank you all for your patience. BTW, the price of the
book has gone down. We increased the size of the first
printing and the print shop gave us a better price. We're
passing that savings on to our customers.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "martin P" <tonibec(at)hotmail.com> |
| From: | GOOCHMAC(at)aol.com |
Subject: Kolb-List: Radio help
I need to get a radio for my plane. What is the difference between the
Delcom and the IC2? IC3? IC4?
I just need to talk--no navigation----I want something cheap!
Martin
I had a Delcom, worked fine, cheap, and tough.
Another Martin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Hydraulic parking brakes |
Someone asked:
> is there a parking brake setup for the Matco hydraulic heel brakes? <
Adding a parking brake to a hydraulic system is as easy as installing one
more valve. Matco sells one for about a hundred bucks, but really doesn't
need to be elaborate to work. You want a valve to close after you push the
brakes to the floor, thereby trapping the pressure between the valve and
the wheel cylinder. I guess you'd need two of them, if you're using
individual wheel brakes. I wonder if the $8 ball-valves they sell for fuel
shutoffs would work. They are 1/4", they are brass, they are cheap. I am
guessing we're putting less than 150 psi into the brake lines.
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Exhaust Coatings. |
The new VW Trends magazine for May 2000, page 26, has a tech report on a
product called POR - 15, and POR - 20. There's also an ad on page 45 for
POR - 15. They're at www.por15.com The 1st article shows
www.aircooled.net This is a high temp coating for exhausts, etc. that can
be applied at home. Looks good, and I don't remember if anyone mentioned it
on the string a few months ago. The ad also touts it as an anti-corrosive
coating for battery mounts, etc. Kinda reminds me of the "Hammerite" paint
I used on boat trailers. Stuff was amazing. Anyway, a quick look at the
sites tells me that the -15 is a medium temp anti-corrosive coating, and
the -20 is the hi-temp stuff. Go to the aircooled.net site and enter POR-20
in the search box. Looks like a good product. Also, for anyone
interested in older VW's, and /or VW engines and parts, the aircooled.net
site is loaded. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re:hand held radio comparison |
>>>>I need to get a radio for my plane. What is the
difference between the Delcom
and the IC2? IC3? IC4?
I just need to talk--no navigation----I want something
cheap!
Martin>>>>
try this link. it compares a big varity of products.
http://www.avionix.com/guide.html
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know much of anything about the other radios, but I do have a
DelComm and know a little about it. It is a fine quality radio --
excellent transmission and reception. They are cheaper than the
others. The compromises, i believe, include:
-bigger size -- not horrible, but size matters
-they do not work with most mic's. I forget the details on this, but
they require a different impedence mic than is standard. UltraCom
helmets have this and an old David Clark style headset have it. Sorry
this is so vague off the top of my head. There is an expert source of
information, parts/kits, and help (for reasonable fee) wrt Delcomms.
It is Jim Vroom in Dallas. He helped me put together a great
headset-mic-PTT with my Delcomm. Xmit and Rcv is loud and clear, set
up is neat, price was right. He is at jsvroom(at)aol.com
-Ben Ransom
--- GOOCHMAC(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I need to get a radio for my plane. What is the difference between
> the Delcom and the IC2? IC3? IC4?
> I just need to talk--no navigation----I want something cheap!
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Barbara/Phoenixville |
Just returned from Sun n Fun. Great show etc etc. The best news I heard was
that Barbara (Sue's predecessor at old Kolb) is doing very well. The last I
heard of her was that she had extremely serious heart trouble and was forced
to stop working. I was almost afraid to ask about her but Mrs Kolb said that
she has now received a heart transplant and is doing very well.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
Can anyone tell me how long the leading edge main tube should be sticking
out from the wing on the inside edge, and what is the purpose of it sticking
out. My Firestar has about 6" extra on each wing. Thanks Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/12/00 10:07:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yamaha(at)cvn.net
writes:
<< Can anyone tell me how long the leading edge main tube should be sticking
out from the wing on the inside edge, and what is the purpose of it sticking
out. My Firestar has about 6" extra on each wing. Thanks Randy >>
Randy, mine has it too; I believe it's to attach the gap-seal.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
Randy, that tube extention is real handy when you're putting the wing into
position from being folded when the full enclosure is in place.Howard is
right, it also supports the leading edge of the fabric gap seal. G.Aman FS2
#1274
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
I found it positively in the way when putting up the wings, but that is
on a FS KXP. I think the tubes bumped into the KXP's long windscreen.
I've also used a lexan gap seal so didn't need the tube support for the
standard fabric gap seal.
-Ben Ransom
--- ZepRep251(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Randy, that tube extention is real handy when you're putting the wing
> into
> position from being folded when the full enclosure is in
> place.Howard is
> right, it also supports the leading edge of the fabric gap seal.
> G.Aman FS2
> #1274
>
>
>
>
>
>
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing covering........ |
OK buddy, go ahead, just rub it in. Slowpoke Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Sharp <mlsharp_1(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 7:54 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing covering........
>
> Hey folks,
>
> Just finished with the final heat taut on the first wing on the mark
> III..... went really well, Hey lar, it aint so bad..... rivits and all
went
> real smooth... the only uh ohh.. the soldering iron sliped once and i had
> about a dime size hole next to the rib.... little patch over and the
> finishing tape should cover... course I will know its there........ at
least
> its on the bottom of the wing...
>
> its really starting to look like something, and I think i'm getting used
to
> the poly.............stuff...... hee hee
>
> mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
Randy, that tube extention is real handy when you're putting the wing
> into
> position from being folded when the full enclosure is in
> place.
On my Firestar, Mk III and FireFly, I whacked those tubes off after almost
poking a hole in the fuselage fabric while folding the wings. Attempted to
use the soft wing gap cover but went for .016, 6061-T6 Al. on all three. I'm
sure it's all up to personal preference. The two piece metal wing gap is some
extra work (especially the cutting of the parachute exit hole) but I think it
looks better and probably adds a tad of lift.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
Hi Randy and Kolbers,
On the Twinstar Mark II that I had the leading edge extensions helped
support the alum. gap seal but I think the most important function for that
particular plane was that it gave you a place to secure the inboard end of
the wings while hauling it on a open trailer. I used rubber bungy cords to
strap the wings together which made them secure on that end of the wings.
Also put foam pads between the wings and cage where the wings would make
contact.
Later,
John Cooley
Building FS II #1162
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy <yamaha(at)cvn.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar
>
> Can anyone tell me how long the leading edge main tube should be sticking
> out from the wing on the inside edge, and what is the purpose of it
sticking
> out. My Firestar has about 6" extra on each wing. Thanks Randy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard_Harris(at)albemarle.com |
Well gang I finally see the problem with Big Lar ..... Just read his post
below..... Seems like he is putting some woman before his "mere" airplane.
RH MK3 #233 912ul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MACH3702(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 04/12/00 |
Unsuscribe
stop
whatever but please take me off of your list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <yamaha(at)cvn.net> |
Can someone tell me if you need the wing gap seal if you have a VLS system
installed between the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Grey Baron' book` |
Listees,
I have just got my HD fixed on my computer (been using wife's) and have
lost most of the list of those of you who wanted either/both of my
books. Please post me off-list as I don't want Big Bob C. to kick me off
this list. I have contacted some of you, but not all.
Thanks,
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/14/00 8:48:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yamaha(at)cvn.net
writes:
<< Can someone tell me if you need the wing gap seal if you have a VLS system
installed between the wings >>
Yes. If you don't already have it, you should use the aluminum/lexan gap
seal.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Howard,
Did you notice any change to cruise speed or fuel burn with the vortex
generators?
John Jung
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
In a message dated 4/15/00 8:00:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jrjung(at)execpc.com writes:
<< Did you notice any change to cruise speed or fuel burn with the vortex
generators? >>
Although I have done no difinetive experimentation to verify this, I believe
the VG's help all aspects of your plane's performance. As far as fuel burn
is concerned, I burn the same amount as my wingman who flies a FS I & who's
gross is 150 lbs under mine, this was not true before I installed the VG's.
Also, we both maintain level flight at same engine rpm. As far as cruise, I
just don't know. I like to run about 60, even though I can go 90 at full
throttle.
Possible additional uses :
Under Horizontal Stab. to increase elevator authority
Both sides of Vertical Stab increase rudder authority
Both side of Cage for improved airflow to the prop.
I intend to try all of these [time permitting]. Let me know your results.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dama Riddick <dama(at)mindspring.com> |
Has anyone else seen the RANS gap seal? At Sun N Fun, their planes had a
plastic piece riveted about every foot that seemed to make a very simple
seal. Some deflection angles produced about a 1/16" space though. Has
anyone else considered this?
Kip Laurie
FS-705
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Anybody home? or is everyone out flying? i usually get 30-50 msgs/day,
but only 3-4 since yesterday eve. List broken? Someone cut the strings
between the two Campbell's soup cans?
bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry" <tswartz(at)hydrosoft.net> |
Everybody but you and me went to Sun-in-fun I guess.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of bob n
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 7:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Hello, test
Anybody home? or is everyone out flying? i usually get 30-50 msgs/day,
but only 3-4 since yesterday eve. List broken? Someone cut the strings
between the two Campbell's soup cans?
bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nickshrives(at)aol.com |
ddk.do;rj 7i5t yd8idt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Question: It's pretty well known and accepted that ultra-violet light
will quickly destroy the dacron fabric that we cover our planes with.
I've been wrapping the completed ( ! ! ! ) tail pieces with a blue surgical
sheet ( that's what I have available ) to keep them clean and protected
while I do more pieces. My only storage place is on the porch where the
work is being done. Looking at them today, it dawned on me that the coating
instructions call for silver paint until no light can be seen through the
fabric - 2 or 3 coats. When I look thru the blue sheet, it is NOT dark.
Light coming thru is blue. Blue. Hmmm...............seems to me that the
blue cloth would filter out, or slow down the U/V ( change the wave length )
to where it won't harm the fabric. Then again..............maybe not.
They are only in the direct sun for a few hours in the morning, till the sun
gets above the roof, and haven't been out there too long. What are you
guys' feelings about this ?? Should I work out some kind of solid shield ??
Will the blue sheets be OK ?? They aren't regular woven sheets, but some
kind of pressed synthetic that is water resistant. The more I think about
this, the un-easier I'm getting. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Candy King <acking(at)sunline.net> |
| Subject: | Windshield Failure |
While flying today I was hurrying to land before a fogbank obscured the
landing strip when my windshield ripped away from the pod and pressed
under my chin. Fortunately the end screws held long enough to land
without coming off completely.
I was probably going about 70mph at the time....it felt like I was about
to be decapitated.
My plane is a Firestar (1985) so possibly is suffering from old age.
For those with similar machines it might be worthwhile to inspect the
fastenings on their windshields.
Al K Firestar 447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
HI Lar
If your porch is glassed in I do not think the UV rays will penetrate.
Glass lets in light but no UV. Years ago I did an experiment and nailed a
chunk of bare fabric to a fence post and let it stay there. after a year it
seemed more pliable but just as strong. I did not have any kind of fabric
tester but it seemed strong enough. I will also repeat my old tale of the
Vector sitting outside for 8 years with no protection other than house paint
on the wings. Still good when I tore it apart. The contact cement holding
the fabric on seemed to hold better than any polytacked fabric I have ever
pulled off. When I do my Mk111 (or maybe I will call it the MK X) I will
omit the silver paint. Reasoning that I will hanger my bird most of the time
and the new synthetics are more resistant to UV than the old cotton
coverings of years ago.
Bet I just gave Jim or Dondi a heart attack.
Woodi
I believe a silver coat can be brushed on and the fabric will suck it in
and get rid of any brush marks. That is how it is done with the HI PEC system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
Yesterday I started installing some of the hardware purchased at Sun 'n Fun.
Replaced all of the fuel lines (1/4 and 1/8 ), the squeeze pump and filter.
After a close QC inspection by Rut Fuller (remember him?) I rolled her out to
make sure the engine was ready to fly. Switch-on, squeeze the bulb till the
carb bowl, new filter and lines were full. Two strokes on the prime pump,
yelled "clear !" and pulled the starter handle. She would not even pop. Gave
the prime pump a few more stokes and tried again without success. Checked the
rear plug and found it bone dry. When I went over the fuel system again I
found that the 1/8 lines to the primer pump were switched. It was trying to
pump fuel back into the tank from the carburetor prime port. Switched the
lines and made sure the flow was correct. Pulled the starter maybe a dozen
more times then gave up and pushed her back in the hangar. Re-checked the
plug and it was still dry. Finally checked the carburetor bowl and as I
released the bowl it was jamb full and fuel came gushing out of the bowl
under pressure. I was running late by then and had to leave.
The purpose of all this is to see if anyone else has run into this situation
or has suggestions on what to try next. Constructive help always welcome.
Thanks in advance, I'll post my results when I solve the problem.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FireFly SN007, 447, IVO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel system |
That primer hole/port/tube has a really small hole in it, blow it out, make
sure it isn't clogged?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Yesterday I started installing some of the hardware purchased at Sun 'n Fun.
>Replaced all of the fuel lines (1/4 and 1/8 ), the squeeze pump and filter.
>After a close QC inspection by Rut Fuller (remember him?) I rolled her out to
>make sure the engine was ready to fly. Switch-on, squeeze the bulb till the
>carb bowl, new filter and lines were full. Two strokes on the prime pump,
>yelled "clear !" and pulled the starter handle. She would not even pop. Gave
>the prime pump a few more stokes and tried again without success. Checked the
>rear plug and found it bone dry. When I went over the fuel system again I
>found that the 1/8 lines to the primer pump were switched. It was trying to
>pump fuel back into the tank from the carburetor prime port. Switched the
>lines and made sure the flow was correct. Pulled the starter maybe a dozen
>more times then gave up and pushed her back in the hangar. Re-checked the
>plug and it was still dry. Finally checked the carburetor bowl and as I
>released the bowl it was jamb full and fuel came gushing out of the bowl
>under pressure. I was running late by then and had to leave.
>
>The purpose of all this is to see if anyone else has run into this situation
>or has suggestions on what to try next. Constructive help always welcome.
>
>Thanks in advance, I'll post my results when I solve the problem.
>
>Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FireFly SN007, 447, IVO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Glass will allow UV. I have a perfect example
In the screenprinting industry we use an exposure system to burn our
screens. The emulsions are only sensitive to UV. The film is placed
under a glass and vacuum is activated. Exposure is thru the glass in
about 1 minute. The glass does not block UV. I also use UV activated
adhesives to bond glass. A small blacklight is all it takes to activate
these products thru 1/2" smoked glass.
On the other topic. If you must use the Stits process just to feel
better go ahead and use the whole batch of materials.
I have done my own testing of fabrics and coatings and find that
ordinary Polyurethanes like Red Devil or Krylon bond very well to Stits
fabric and showed no sign of degradation after many months of exposure
to Southern California summer sun.. I would only use these alternate
coatings on an ultralight where the speeds and loads are lower and the
resale value is so low as to be a non-issue. You will certainly save
money on the coatings and you will not have to breathe the noxious MEK
fumes.
Still should use Polytack to hold the fabric on as it is just as easy.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Ogay, 2 parts. 1st., I would love to come and paint both at once. Down
side is that you'd probably never get rid of me. Seriously, I had planned
on doing the painting in stages too, if I ever get to stage 1. Had planned
on covering, then coating the tail, but dedication is sagging - quite a bit,
and I still don't have all the tail covered. Most, but......... In the
morning I plan to call Jim about a small (??) problem I'm having with the
tape, then we'll have at it. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultra-Violet
>
> Big Lar,
>
> Bring them on over to my place. I am going to bite the bullet an spray
> my rudder, horizontal stabilizers and elevators this week. The vertical
> stabilizer is done and on the tube. (So I can mount engine etc.)
>
> Seriously, I would suggest going ahead with the coating up thru the 1st
> two coats of UV. You might as well get it over with. I know that I have
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | More Ultra Violet |
OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V will
penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat. This
is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day. (Especially my
big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is the
blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ?? Or
will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them behind
it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass with
U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right. That's
the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take a
chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to the
full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and maybe
as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even here in
Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful place,
but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
Cautious Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
One should remember
> that a stopped or windmilling prop without power is a severe source of drag.
> Because of this one need to carry alittle more airspeed than what you
> usually practice with the engine running but at idle.
> Bob Kearbey DDS
> CFII ASMEL MKIII (52BK)
Bob and Kolbers:
I don't want to seem argumentive, but I have yet to see a
Rotax or Cuyuna powered UL with reduction drive windmill.
The prop stops when the engine stops. I'm sure a lot of us
would have liked to see that ole prop windmill when we lost
an eng on final so we could get an air restart. One
exception, that I have no experience with, is the "clutch"
that some people install on their drives that allows the
engine to idle with no prop load. I can see that system
allowing the prop to windmill should the engine shut down
completely or at idle.
I also find just the opposite true of your comment reference
drag and a stopped prop. A stopped prop has far less drag
than the disc created by a slowly turning prop at engine
idle. Of course, I am speaking of Kolb aircraft. Do not
have enough experience to comment on "real airplanes." On
our airplanes, glide is increased a great deal after the
prop stops. I feel it is a good idea to learn to do engine
off practice emergency landings for just that reason. Most
folks do practice eng out emergency landings at engine
idle. Get accustomed to that mode. Then when the engine
actually stops, they are surprised to find the aircraft
flies and glides much better, which could possibly cause
them to overfly their intended forced landing area.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the way it works with
all the Kolb aircraft I have flown.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BILLBEAM(at)aol.com |
John,
Did you ever get the FireFly back up at F&S?
Bill Beam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Sun and Fun 2000 is History |
Bill and Kolb Gang:
Yep! We got the Fire Fly flying, after doing some head
scratching and adjusting to get the brakes to cooperate.
A new type of mechanical brake was installed with a little
longer gear legs prior to departure from the Kolb Factory.
Norm Labhart test flew the FF at Chesnut Knolls and it
worked ok. I flew it a little the first Sunday of S&F and
had some problems with the brakes. Got to have good brakes
to ground handle the aircraft in all that traffic in the UL
area at Lakeland.
Before the week was out, both Norm and Bruce Chesnut were
flying the FF.
The Kolb Company had a ball at Lakeland this year. Dick
Rahill came down to fly the Firestar, as usual. I flew the
SS. Norm flew the MK III Extra most of the time. We had a
lot of wind, mostly 90 deg cross winds, but the Kolb handled
the wind plus natural and aircraft induced turbulence as
normal. There were many times when Kolbs dominated the UL
pattern. Friday evening there were all four Factory Kolbs
in the pattern and no other aircraft in the air for more
than 15 minutes.
I thoroughly enjoyed flying the SS this past week. Had a
chance to fly it fast, slow, and hard. It always did what I
asked it to do without any complaints. That includes some
severe landing gear testing, if you know what I mean. There
were times I was sure I had bent something. But to my
surprise, the SS shot did not bend and kept coming back for
more. If I had to build another experimental, it would be a
hard choice to make between the MK III Extra and the SS.
Would not be hard to configure the SS to hold a 20 or 25 gal
fuel tank and still have enough room for my camping gear,
etc. With a 912S it would have a very decent cruise and
still be able to handle those little short, rough UL
strips. :-) Oh well, got to wear out the old MK III first.
Enjoyed meeting a lot of you all face to face after being
friends on the internet for a couple years. Always enjoy
seeing old friends that I usually only get to see down at
Lakeland or up at Oshkosh.
Got to get busy with the MK III and get her flying. Lots to
do now that I am back home. Only two and a half months til
time to head north to Alaska. My work is cut out for me.
Thanks to all of you who have helped me out with my "flight
to Oshkosh 2000 by way of Barrow, Alaska." I appreciate
your spirit of adventure, your confidence that Miss P'fer
and I can accomplish our mission, and your support. We
(Miss P'fer and I) will do our best to make you all proud of
our little airplanes and what they are capable of doing.
Take care,
john h
> Did you ever get the FireFly back up at F&S?
>
> Bill Beam
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
<< Question: It's pretty well known and accepted that ultra-violet light
will quickly destroy the dacron fabric that we cover our planes with. >>
Big Lar.
I'm sure you'll get a few responses about this and I'll add my ignorant
2-cents worth. I've just completed refurbishing a 1994 Firestar II and since
I have neither the equipment, facilities, nor talent to paint, I covered my
UL with heat-shrink polyester film for the color coat. In order to do this I
had to omit the UV coating from the usual Polyfiber covering process. Being
concerned that this omission would leave me with degraded fabric over a short
period of time, I made up test panels of my planned finishing while I was
refurbishing the other pre-covering parts of the Firestar. The colored panels
are on the roof of my shed and have been tested, so far, up to 180 hours of
sunlight exposure. Punch tests have been done by a local A&P mechanic using a
Seyboth (?) tester. The original start-date punch results were in the green
for all colors - white, red, blue, and yellow. Punch tests results after 180
hours showed only the tiniest lessening of strength, that is, the position in
the green range nearly approached the yellow. I plan to continue periodic
punch tests just to see if and when significant degradation occurs, but since
I keep my Firestar in a hangar, the 180-hour test reflects quite a few flying
years for me.
Hope this helps.
Charlie
P.S.
If I can get my website working you can see photos of the wing at:
http://members.aol.com/ulflyer/FSwingbuild.jpg
other photos at: http://members.aol.com/ulflyer ....then pick a .jpg
and look. Got local flyer's Slingshort, Mark III, and my Firestar II and
other stuff. .... if I could only get all the web page stuff working it'd
tell you about our Kolb flying at Shannon, GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photos are there - sort of |
Jack & John (& others),
Got the Kolb photos uploaded but can't get them to come up with the text yet.
You can take a look at our stuff at:
http://members.aol.com/ulflyer ........ then pick a .jpg and click on
it.
This is apainful way to see the stuff but I'll get the web page for Shannon,
GA, working soon. If you pick the right .jpg's you'll see several of my
refurbished Firestar II, John's Slingshot and Jack's Mark III. I'f like to
get some photos of the Wood's Kolbs, too. Maybe at our next fly-in or their
next visit to Shannon.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
HI Lar
I may have been to simplistic in my last reply. I did all my experimenting
in canada (9 months winter an 3 months poor tobbogganing) Tieing down in
Death Vally may rot your sail alot quicker.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Hundley" <rhundley(at)erols.com> |
1996 Mark III for Sale
70 hours TT
Rotax 582 w/ electric start
GSC 3 blade prop
Full Enclosure
Matco Hydraulic brakes and wheels
Dual throttles
Comtronics intercom and headsets
Transceiver and CB radios
Full instruments with Center console
Aircraft is in Delaware. I will email pictures upon request.
This is a beautiful airplane. Looks and flies great!
Call Rick at 302-537-0939 or 703-447-5979 or email at rhundley(at)erols.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
I've just completed refurbishing a 1994 Firestar II and since
>I have neither the equipment, facilities, nor talent to paint, I covered my
>UL with heat-shrink polyester film for the color coat. In order to do this
I
>had to omit the UV coating from the usual Polyfiber covering process.
Charlie
I am extremely interested in hearing as much detail on this as you have
patience to pass along. I have thought about doing the same thing but have
no idea how to do it or if it would work. I think that the films used by
the model airplane world are fantastic and leave a more aerodynamic surface
than all but the very best paint jobs. I think the whole list would like
to hear about it but if not and you have the time please send it along to me
direct at
tophera(at)centurytel.net
thanks
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | height of Mark III |
Does anyone know the maximum height of the Mark III with a three bladed
prop. I am designing my building/storage room and I need to know how tall
to make the door.
My brother flew his Grumman Tiger to Sun'n'Fun. While he was there, he
checked out the Kolbs for me. He was most impressed with the Mark III Xtra
(and all the Kolbs for that matter). He thought that they stole the show in
their class. He said that there was a Kolb in the air almost all the time.
He is an electrical engineer and a marvelous mechanic and he was really
impressed with the wing spars and the cage structure of the Kolbs.
Clay Stuart
Danville KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | heat-shrink polyester film |
Charlie,
I am interested in more information, also. Please tell us more about how you
did it
and how it looks. Also, where did you get the material in that volume and how much
did it
cost?
John Jung
> I've just completed refurbishing a 1994 Firestar II and since
> I have neither the equipment, facilities, nor talent to paint, I covered my
> UL with heat-shrink polyester film for the color coat. In order to do this
> I had to omit the UV coating from the usual Polyfiber covering process.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
> I've just completed refurbishing a 1994 Firestar II and since
> >I have neither the equipment, facilities, nor talent to paint, I covered my
> >UL with heat-shrink polyester film for the color coat. In order to do this
> I
> >had to omit the UV coating from the usual Polyfiber covering process.
>
> Charlie
>
> I am extremely interested in hearing as much detail on this as you have
> patience to pass along. I have thought about doing the same thing but have
> no idea how to do it or if it would work. I think that the films used by
> the model airplane world are fantastic and leave a more aerodynamic surface
> than all but the very best paint jobs. I think the whole list would like
> to hear about it but if not and you have the time please send it along to me
> direct at
>
> tophera(at)centurytel.net
>
> thanks
>
> Topher
No UV protection worries the heck out of me. Don't understand why you
had to leave this off.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net> |
| Subject: | Another one Flying |
first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
The first take off I tried climbing at 55mph and the aircraft did not
seem as if it were climbing like it should. Executed a go around and
used 60mph as the approach speed. Flew down to just a few feet off the
runway then slowly started reducing power until the mains smoothly
touched the asphalt then reduced power to idle and let her roll to a
stop (8000 feet of runway sure is nice).
Pondered the problem for awhile then added one more degree of pitch to
the prop to see if it made any difference in climb out.
Taxied back to runway and smoothly added power. Climb out wasn't much
different so used 50mph for climb and decided this was acceptable.
Continued climbing in the pattern until 6000 feet. At this point a
friend was in his Citabria waiting for me and came up along side and
checked out the aircraft from his point of view (which surprisingly was
right side up, he can't stand to fly straight and level very long) I was
informed everything looked A OK.
He asked me what my airspeed was and when I said I was showing 55mph he
laughed and said he was showing 83mph on his indicator (no wonder climb
out was poor).
Proceeded to do control checks and stall investigation. Controls were
comfortable throughout every check so slowed down to see if I could find
the stall speed. At 28mph (On my indicator) the aircraft stalled with
very little advanced warning then resumed flying just as quickly.
At this point my left hand was frozen numb from the air coming through
the bottom of the door. I have my throttle on the left side and my hand
is positioned right where the air comes in (Brrrrrr).
My ground crew told me that I needed to do some practice approaches at
altitude, NOT. I felt if I stayed up there any longer I wouldn't be able
to move my hand at all (it really wasn't that bad).
Descended into the pattern using 45mph (as indicated on my erroneous
indicator) as the approach speed and used a lot less runway then the
time before to settle the aircraft back down on mother earth ;-)
Now I need to fix the airspeed problem and fly, fly, fly !!!!!!!
Come on Big Lar you're missing out on something fun.
It's hard to believe that 20 months ago there was a pile of aluminum
tubing laying in the shop and now it defies gravity.
WHAT A GAS :-)
Paul V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another one Flying |
Paul V:
Congratulations!!! Ain't nothing like that first flight in
your own creation.
john h
> first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
> WHAT A GAS :-)
>
> Paul V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another one Flying |
Paul,
Congratulations on your first flight. Building and flying your own airplane
is an outstanding achievement.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 7:42 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Another one Flying
>
>first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
>
>The first take off I tried climbing at 55mph and the aircraft did not
>seem as if it were climbing like it should. Executed a go around and
>used 60mph as the approach speed. Flew down to just a few feet off the
>runway then slowly started reducing power until the mains smoothly
>touched the asphalt then reduced power to idle and let her roll to a
>stop (8000 feet of runway sure is nice).
>
>Pondered the problem for awhile then added one more degree of pitch to
>the prop to see if it made any difference in climb out.
>Taxied back to runway and smoothly added power. Climb out wasn't much
>different so used 50mph for climb and decided this was acceptable.
>Continued climbing in the pattern until 6000 feet. At this point a
>friend was in his Citabria waiting for me and came up along side and
>checked out the aircraft from his point of view (which surprisingly was
>right side up, he can't stand to fly straight and level very long) I was
>informed everything looked A OK.
>He asked me what my airspeed was and when I said I was showing 55mph he
>laughed and said he was showing 83mph on his indicator (no wonder climb
>out was poor).
>
>Proceeded to do control checks and stall investigation. Controls were
>comfortable throughout every check so slowed down to see if I could find
>the stall speed. At 28mph (On my indicator) the aircraft stalled with
>very little advanced warning then resumed flying just as quickly.
>At this point my left hand was frozen numb from the air coming through
>the bottom of the door. I have my throttle on the left side and my hand
>is positioned right where the air comes in (Brrrrrr).
>My ground crew told me that I needed to do some practice approaches at
>altitude, NOT. I felt if I stayed up there any longer I wouldn't be able
>to move my hand at all (it really wasn't that bad).
>
>Descended into the pattern using 45mph (as indicated on my erroneous
>indicator) as the approach speed and used a lot less runway then the
>time before to settle the aircraft back down on mother earth ;-)
>
>Now I need to fix the airspeed problem and fly, fly, fly !!!!!!!
>
>Come on Big Lar you're missing out on something fun.
>
>It's hard to believe that 20 months ago there was a pile of aluminum
>tubing laying in the shop and now it defies gravity.
>
>
>WHAT A GAS :-)
>
>Paul V
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Hundley" <rhundley(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: MK III for sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Hundley <rhundley(at)erols.com>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 5:19 PM
Subject: MK III for sale
> 1996 Mark III for Sale
>
>
> 70 hours TT
> Rotax 582 w/ electric start
> GSC 3 blade prop
> Full Enclosure
> Matco Hydraulic brakes and wheels
> Dual throttles
> Comtronics intercom and headsets
> Transceiver and CB radios
> Full instruments with Center console
>
>
> Aircraft is in Delaware. I will email pictures upon request.
> This is a beautiful airplane. Looks and flies great!
>
> Call Rick at 302-537-0939 or 703-447-5979 or email at rhundley(at)erols.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | geo engine/raven redrive |
Kolbers,
Anyone have any experience with the Geo Metro 3 cylinder conversion by
Raven Redrive?
I'm checking into to it for the MIII. It looks very well done according to
the manual ($60), but I would like to hear about one on a KOLB.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Johnston Jr." <wingmen(at)hotbot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: geo engine/raven redrive |
I'm also interested in the Raven ReDrive Setup,would be interested in what the
manual includes. I've emailed Raven several times and still haven't gotten a
response.
---
Bill J. (aka-WingMan)
Building Mark III
Serial # MT99400017
On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:14:42 Chris Sudlow wrote:
>
>Kolbers,
>
>Anyone have any experience with the Geo Metro 3 cylinder conversion by
>Raven Redrive?
>
>I'm checking into to it for the MIII. It looks very well done according to
>the manual ($60), but I would like to hear about one on a KOLB.
>
>Chris
>
>
HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Polyester film covering - LONG post |
For Topher and others of you that may be interested I'll cover (no pun
intended) the details of how I applied model aircraft polyester heat-shrink
film to my Firestar II. Maybe a little background first - I fly with some
other Kolb folks, a few of which have BEAUTIFULLY painted finishes on their
aircraft. Since I have minimal paint equipment, no good place to paint, and
inadequate painting skills, I needed a means to have a respectably-finished
Firestar that would not receive finger-pointing and laughs at the times I
would be in the company of the good looking Kolbs.
From a little experience on my past Spitfire ultralight, I'd found that
heat-shrink covering could be applied to Poly-Fiber covering material. I'd
had a need to add new sails to my Spitfire and found the tail coverings to be
a poor fit. So I covered these surfaces with Poly-Fiber fabric being careful
not to shrink the covering too tight for the lightly-build tail structure.
The finishing was done using Great Plains Coverite's film. I'll omit more
details of this development and application since the routine I did on the
Firestar is much better. However, results of the Spitfire tail covering were
good and can be seen at: http://members.aol.com/ulflyer/spittail.jpg
Before I did any actual covering I made several 14" square test panels. These
were simply pieces of " steel conduit welded into a square structure and
Poly-Fiber covering applied. From these I tried several finishing methods in
order to check polyester film adhesion, shrinking and attachment results.
Most of this was done using combinations of Poly-Tack (full strength and
thinned), Poly-Brush (thinned and multiple coats) , and Balsarite in single
and multiple coats. The resulting routine gave film adhesion to the
Poly-Fiber such that the film would tear when it was peeled from the
Poly-Fiber. This result suited me. The final routine is to finish the
Poly-Fiber fabric with one coat of Poly-Brush, apply the polyester film right
after a second coat of Poly-Brush, shrinking the film with heat and pressure
onto the fabric.
There are a couple of critical points in getting a wrinkle-free covering and
great adhesion - First, the Poly-Fiber fabric MUST be shrunk at a higher
temperature than the shrinking temperature of the polyester film. Generally,
I shrunk the Poly-Fiber to at least 300 degrees. For the color coat I used
Top Flite's Econokote, which is a low-temperature polyester film covering,
and shrunk it at about 220 - 240 degrees. Second, the second coat of
Poly-Brush must NOT be completely dry when the polyester film is applied. I
suspect that the remaining solvents in the Poly-Brush assist in the
attachment to the adhesive on the polyester film. The polyester film will
still adhere to the Poly-Fiber fabric if the Poly-Brush has dried, but not to
the peel-tear state. Light iron pressure and/or hand pressure (over a rag)
with a heat gun during the shrinking process will assure smooth attachment.
Another concern was the lack of UV protection I would have since I had to
omit the silver coating in the usual Poly-Fiber process. I made a finished
panel using the white, red, blue, and yellow colors of my Firestar and had
0-hours exposure puncture tests done by a local A&P mechanic. This panel is
currently on the roof of my shed and has had 180-hour tests done with only
the tiniest measurable degradation (probably just a variation in the use of
the tester). I plan to continue the exposure and puncture testing but the
180-hour result is several years worth of my flying time.
For my Firestar a completed wing panel took 4 days - Poly-Fiber and finish
bottom in 9 hours (1st day); Poly-Fiber and finish the top in 9 hours (2nd
day); add color covering (4 colors) to bottom in 8 hours (3rd day); and add
color (4 colors) covering to top in 8 hours (4th day). Results can be seen
at: http://members.aol.com/ulflyer/FSwingbuild.jpg Cost of completed wing
covering and coloring was about $650 and could have been a lot less with
fewer colors. Materials came from our Kolb source, Jim & Dondi, and a local
hobby shop supplied the color covering. I don't have any number info for the
cage and tail areas but they were done similarly.
Here's what I did:
Cover the structure using the usual Poly-Fiber process. Stop after the first
coat of Polybrush. Nothing unusual here except I omitted the taping of edges.
Everything else was done per Kolb instructions. I may note some thanks to
whoever posted the squeeze bottle routine for Poly-Tack application 'cause it
saved me lots of time, messiness, and waste. The only difference that I used
was following the squeeze bottle with a small brush instead of my finger. A
two-coat application to the full perimeter and ribs of the wing took only a
few minutes.
The application of the polyester film is made following a second coat of
Poly-Brush over a limited area at a time. I found that during cool weather
work (about 50 degrees) I could cover three or four main rib sections at a
time. During warmer weather I cut that back to two panels at a time to assure
that the Poly-Brush was not completely dry. One word of caution about the
amount of "dry" - I mean that the Poly-Brush should be just dry to the touch
but not "hard". If the Poly-Brush is still wet ANY amount, when the polyester
film's glue side touches the Poly-Brush, it's STUCK - no positioning or
moving that piece around. Once the film is laying over the area I began
tacking the edges with a small iron. On the open flat areas of the wing I
heat-shrunk the film with a heat gun and pressed the film onto the Poly-Fiber
fabric using light hand pressure on an old tee-shirt. I worked across one
panel at a time 'til I reached the end of the wet Poly-Brush area. Then I
folded the film back over the finished area, applied Poly-Brush to the next
area, waited a few minutes for it to "dry", pulled the film over this next
area and did the attach and shrink routine. Finishing and shrinking around
the edges was done in the usual model-application methods - pull tight, heat,
and press with the iron.
The only area requiring a slightly different technique is the scalloped areas
between the leading edge upper ribs. Here I just positioned the film lightly
from rib-top to rib-top and, using the small hand iron, pressed the film down
from the rib top toward the next rib stopping about midway between ribs. Then
I reversed the direction from the next rib, again meeting about halfway
between the ribs. This worked best for me.
Whew - I'm worn out again just typing this routine. I hope this helps those
of you that may be interested in this covering routine. If you have
questions, just ask and I'll try to answer them. More photos of my
refurbished Firestar can be seen at: http://members.aol.com/ulflyer and
just click on some of the .jpg images there, e.g., FSrtfront.jpg,
FStail.jpg, and rear34.jpg. Several photos are some of my other past
ultralights and other fellow fliers but you can pick out the Kolbs from them.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Gil,
<< No UV protection worries the heck out of me. Don't understand why you
had to leave this off. >>
Polyester film wouldn't stick to it very well and heat application seemed to
soften the silver coating. See complete write-up in other post. Current
polyester, no-silver trial panel has gone 180 hours with no measurable
degradation. I understand your concern, though. My original concerns are
going away.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another one Flying |
Paul,
Congratulations and thanks for sharing.
John Jung
Paul VonLindern wrote:
>
> first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
snip........
> Paul V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Polyester film covering - LONG post |
Maybe a little background first - I fly with some
>other Kolb folks, a few of which have BEAUTIFULLY painted finishes on their
>aircraft. Since I have minimal paint equipment, no good place to paint, and
>inadequate painting skills, I needed a means to have a respectably-finished
>Firestar that would not receive finger-pointing and laughs at the times I
>would be in the company of the good looking Kolbs.
You ain't one of them dam possums are ya?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Garrod <fgarrod(at)coastalnet.com> |
I have a Kolb Mark III 582 liquid cooled, fully equipped, always
hangered, under 75 hours TT, and am willing to part with it for $17500
or best offer.
Roger 252-974-2089 (North Carolina)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bonomo <bonomo(at)hawke.com> |
| Subject: | Help: No spark on 582 |
> Greetings, all.
>
> Purchased a Mark III from a fellow that said he couldn't get the engine to
> run. This, supposedly after the engine had run, then sat for two years.
> Hobbes says 68 hours. Old plugs look normal for 68 hours of run time,
tan.
>
> No spark on either set of plugs.
>
> Replaced both CDI units, all wires with resistor ones, installed resistor
> plugs and metal caps.
>
> No spark.
>
> While hand propping, a scope on the red trigger wires indicates a decent
> Hall effect pulse, about 2VAC p-p. The green/white wires show about 75VAC
> p-p. Yellow/black ground wires are disconnected.
>
> No spark.
>
> Used a straight plug wire from the replacement CDI unit, straight from the
> unit to case.
>
> No spark.
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Cheers!
>
> Tom Bonomo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
><< No UV protection worries the heck out of me. Don't understand why you
> had to leave this off. >>
>
>Polyester film wouldn't stick to it very well and heat application seemed
to
>soften the silver coating. See complete write-up in other post. Current
>polyester, no-silver trial panel has gone 180 hours with no measurable
>degradation. I understand your concern, though. My original concerns are
>going away.
>
>Charlie
THe polyester film might be a very good UV barrier by itself, I will see if
I can find this out.
the uv additive that can be put in the polyspray probably could be put in
poly brush without effecting your method. I am going to try this out on a
couple of test panels and see if I can do it, if jim and dondi will sell me
some uv additive
A couple of questions
is all of the white on the whole wing film? was the $650 for just the film
or for film and the stits products? what size, length width and thickness
of flim did you use? can you see the seams? would you do it again this way
even if painting were an easier option for you?
"The finishing was done using Great Plains Coverite's film... For the color
coat I used Top Flite's Econokote"
Was the Great Plains Coverite used as the white on the FS or only on the
Spitfire? is Econokote available in the white? is either one better,
worse, cheeper then the other?
Thanks for the writeup, you are doing the true meaning of experimental
aviation! trying new things.
One thing I want to try is using Tyvek none woven polyester sheet instead of
dacron (polyester) fabric covered in the plyester film. Tyvek is used as
house wrap and is very tough stuff that shrinks like all polyester. it
would probably not need to be polybrushed at all because it is airtight by
itself. it is available in 10 foot wide rolls so a whole wing could be done
with only a rear seam. have to do lots of testing on it before I could
trust it though.
TOpher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Settle <rsettle(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | In case you missed her. |
Kolbers,
I have taken the liberty to take a snapshot of our beloved "Sue" from
the snapshot they had at the Kolb trailer. For those of you who couldn't
make Sun-n-Fun. (Sue, I hope you don't mind)
View if you must!
ps. I have permission from Sue!
Follow this link, username is your name, the password is "firestar"
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=111951&a=4713096&p=19688259&Sequence=0
Randy
Original Firestar I
The Lazair News Letter
http://www.flash.net/~rsettle/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: geo engine/raven redrive |
Bill & Chris,
There's one MKIII about to fly or just flying, I've been out of touch with
him. There are several others (Kolbs) that are still building. I am working
on a
hybrid turbo version & won't be ready to put iton my SlingShot for another 6-12
months. Raven's web page person has been out & so their internset communication
has been
nill for a while. Call Jeron at Raven on the phone. His booth was next to Kolb
at S&F. He puts out the best geo-suzuki redrive on the market in my opinion.
There's
one north of me that has over 400hrs now as a 2 place trainer & he loves it, zero
problems. The manual covers the engine history, what models to get, the wire
harness, &
all mods that apply, with pictures of each step. ...Richard Swiderski
"Bill Johnston Jr." wrote:
>
> I'm also interested in the Raven ReDrive Setup,would be interested in what the
manual includes. I've emailed Raven several times and still haven't gotten
a response.
> ---
> Bill J. (aka-WingMan)
> Building Mark III
> Serial # MT99400017
>
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:14:42 Chris Sudlow wrote:
> >
> >Kolbers,
> >
> >Anyone have any experience with the Geo Metro 3 cylinder conversion by
> >Raven Redrive?
> >
> >I'm checking into to it for the MIII. It looks very well done according to
> >the manual ($60), but I would like to hear about one on a KOLB.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
>
> HotBot - Search smarter.
> http://www.hotbot.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another one Flying |
In a message dated 4/18/00 8:51:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
paulv(at)digisys.net writes:
<<
first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
>>
Congratulations! It is a thrill to fly your own creation the first time.
Merle
Twinstar in Orlando
now building FireFly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cajwoods(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 S powered Kolb MK3 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Possum" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 S powered Kolb MK3
> > >The Wood Brothers in Cartersville Ga both have 912's one on a
slingshot, the
> >other on a MK111, > You can borrow my new digital camera I got for work,
if you want.
> Give me a call. I'm on the GSF members list and based 4 miles south of
> Cartersville Airport.
> I haven't seen them yet but I hear they have done a heck of a finish
> job/paint job, maybe as good as Russell's? Of course John helped them
so...
>
Just thought I'd set ole Possum straight.As John Russell is one of the
finest fellows I know and offered countless pieces of advise during
construction,he never turned a wrench,never ironed a tape, and never even
saw the WOODS BROTHERS planes until about 90% complete.Not being mean but
give credit where its due.
Thanks,
Bill Woods
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another one Flying |
Good on you Paul. What a day. CONGRATULATIONS ! ! !
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 5:37 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Another one Flying
>
> first trip into the overcast skies of Montana.
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 S powered Kolb MK3 |
>Just thought I'd set ole Possum straight.As John Russell is one of the
>finest fellows I know and offered countless pieces of advise during
>construction,he never turned a wrench,never ironed a tape, and never even
>saw the WOODS BROTHERS planes until about 90% complete.Not being mean but
>give credit where its due.
> Thanks,
> Bill Woods
Well... that "Russell" guy ain't worth two dead flys.
Hey.. I just heard you guys had the "best" looking Kolbs they ever was!
I just took it for granite-like "Stone Mt."-that he must have helped you.
I always thought that John had the "2nd" best Kolb ever built.
Didn't mean to take anything away from your efforts-John spent untold hours
helping me with my plane-just assummed he did the same with yours. And
Hey---I ain't that "Old"-Hawk is Old!
"Videbat esse notitia bona id temporis."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 582 no spark |
My experience trying to start a 503 with ducatti was as follows.I could
detect no spark until I checked it in total darkness. The spark is so white
and so fast you can only see it in pitch darkness.I was ready to replace
coils when one of the rotax guys informed me that the system is almost bullet
and idiot proof.I choked the hell out of it and pulled as hard as i could and
it lit .I was surprised at how much fuel it needed to fire the first time. G.
Aman FS2 #1274 38 hrs P.S. now have primer installed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Segarcts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Coatings. |
I read your note on coating your muffler, so it dont rust.I read a note on
the net about using linseed oil.Ive been using it for 3 years and my muffler
shows no rust.I put it on after each flight. First I painted it with Black
heat resistant paint then put it on.Works great.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Johnston Jr." <wingmen(at)hotbot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: geo engine/raven redrive |
I'd like to know the total cost of the ReDrive unit and a 3 cylinder engine, total
package, total cost. Anybody out there that has purchased this engine setup
let me know what it cost ya! I could go with either a rebuilt or new engine,
haven't decided as of yet, Looks like I could get a rebuild for round $500
or so? Wondering if the other parts, like the harness etc come with the redrive
kit?
Thanks folks!
---
Bill J. (aka-WingMan)
Building Mark III
Serial # MT99400017
On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:05:42 Swiderski wrote:
>
>Bill & Chris,
> There's one MKIII about to fly or just flying, I've been out of touch with
him. There are several others (Kolbs) that are still building. I am working
on a
>hybrid turbo version & won't be ready to put iton my SlingShot for another 6-12
months. Raven's web page person has been out & so their internset communication
has been
>nill for a while. Call Jeron at Raven on the phone. His booth was next to Kolb
at S&F. He puts out the best geo-suzuki redrive on the market in my opinion.
There's
>one north of me that has over 400hrs now as a 2 place trainer & he loves it, zero
problems. The manual covers the engine history, what models to get, the wire
harness, &
>all mods that apply, with pictures of each step. ...Richard Swiderski
>
>"Bill Johnston Jr." wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm also interested in the Raven ReDrive Setup,would be interested in what the
manual includes. I've emailed Raven several times and still haven't gotten
a response.
>> ---
>> Bill J. (aka-WingMan)
>> Building Mark III
>> Serial # MT99400017
>>
>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:14:42 Chris Sudlow wrote:
>> >
>> >Kolbers,
>> >
>> >Anyone have any experience with the Geo Metro 3 cylinder conversion by
>> >Raven Redrive?
>> >
>> >I'm checking into to it for the MIII. It looks very well done according to
>> >the manual ($60), but I would like to hear about one on a KOLB.
>> >
>> >Chris
>> >
>> >
>>
>> HotBot - Search smarter.
>> http://www.hotbot.com
>>
>
>
HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: geo engine/raven redrive |
Peter & List,
They show the weight for the 1.0 liter 3 cylinder @ 148 lbs. - don't know if
that's wet or dry.
Horsepower is shown as 62 @ 5700 rpm - don't think you'll be running at that
rpm too often - 58 hp is probably closer to reality, but that's a guess
after talking to Raven. Jeron says the geo falls between the 582 & 532, but
with the supercharger (coming soon @ $1250) it will edge out the 582.
Performance @ takeoff will be less than 582, but cruise will be better -
four stroke vs. 2 stroke.
Cost depends...if they do everything, and ship you one out of the box it's
$5795. However, if you find your own engine - I'm working on one now for
about $450 - and do the modifications yourself, and find the lighter
starter, & alternator & computer, & harnesses - the total price should be
under 3.5k.
I've spoken with them & ordered a catalog ($60 - goes toward purchase). The
documentation/quality of the manual is outstanding - photos, complete
explanations etc... Geron says he's got a bunch "about ready to fly" on the
MIII.
Anybody out there installing or flying the geo on the MIII???
Raven's number for Bill J. Jr. - 303-440-6234
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Volum <ibimiami(at)msn.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: geo engine/raven redrive
>I know you're looking for answers and not additional questions Chris. I
>don't have answers, but I do have some questions that you probably can
>easily answer...
>
>What are the weight, hoesepower and price of the final package?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Peter Volum
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sudlow
>Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 12:15 PM
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: geo engine/raven redrive
>
>
>Kolbers,
>
>Anyone have any experience with the Geo Metro 3 cylinder conversion by
>Raven Redrive?
>
>I'm checking into to it for the MIII. It looks very well done according to
>the manual ($60), but I would like to hear about one on a KOLB.
>
>Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: geo engine/raven redrive |
In a message dated 4/19/00 7:32:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
wingmen(at)hotbot.com writes:
<< I could go with either a rebuilt or new engine, haven't decided as of
yet, Looks like I could get a rebuild for round $500 or so? Wondering if the
other parts, like the harness etc come with the redrive kit? >>
You must use a '93 or early '94 engine & most of these would be hi mileage,
so expect to rebuild. A good used engine will cost you around $500, but
rebuild parts seem kind of expensive. The redrive kit, including the dry
sump, was around $2900.
When you remove the engine from the car you also remove the wiring harness
[carefully]. If you are really interested in this you need to call Raven &
order the conversion manual- I did, but the all-up weight [150 lbs] was too
hi for my Firestar I.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
> ><< No UV protection worries the heck out of me. Don't understand why you
> > had to leave this off. >>
> >
> >Polyester film wouldn't stick to it very well and heat application seemed
> to
> >soften the silver coating. See complete write-up in other post. Current
> >polyester, no-silver trial panel has gone 180 hours with no measurable
> >degradation. I understand your concern, though. My original concerns are
> >going away.
> >
> >Charlie
> The polyester film might be a very good UV barrier by itself, I will see if
> I can find this out.
First, polyester is NOT a "very good" UV barrier. I spent almost my
entire working years with thin film (4 mils, 100 microns) polyester used
as a photographic film base. This material has an optical density of
about 0.06. Very little is blocked by the polyester.
Second, remember that on an airplane the polyester is not intended to be
the UV blocker, but rather the THING FROM WHICH THE UV MUST BE BLOCKED.
Any blocking the polyester does is as a result of absorbing the UV,
which in effect is what is destroying it.
On a number of occassions I have used scrap thin film polyester to cover
something outside, and found that it became brittle in a relatively
short time.
> the uv additive that can be put in the polyspray probably could be put in
> poly brush without effecting your method. I am going to try this out on a
> couple of test panels and see if I can do it, if jim and dondi will sell me
> some uv additive
I agree that there is likely no reason why the UV absorber used as an
additive with the PolyFiber process could not be used in either
PolyBrush, PolySpray, or PolyTone even though the normal use is
intended to be in PolyTone. All three (as well as PolyTak are
fundamentally the same polymer with different additives to perform the
desired function. One should keep in mind that the use of this additive
is intended only as an ADDITION to the normal UV blocking of the
PolySpray, not as a replacement. It has been demonstrated that coatings
without the silver but with the additive in the PolyTone have only a
small percentage of the protection of the material with the silver
alone.
> A couple of questions
> One thing I want to try is using Tyvek none woven polyester sheet instead of
> dacron (polyester) fabric covered in the plyester film. Tyvek is used as
> house wrap and is very tough stuff that shrinks like all polyester. it
> would probably not need to be polybrushed at all because it is airtight by
> itself. it is available in 10 foot wide rolls so a whole wing could be done
> with only a rear seam. have to do lots of testing on it before I could
> trust it though.
>
> TOpher
How are you going to attatch the Tyvek to the structure? Very few
things stick to bare polyester. With our photographic films there had
to be two separate layers applied during manufacture of the film base to
permit the photographic emulsions to stick. The only adhesion that one
gets with standard aircraft polyester covering systems is the physical
adhesion of the first coating(s) penetrating the weave and encapsulating
them.
I really advise great caution in these areas .
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Epoxy will get a nice grip on polyester as will many urethanes. I'm sure
one could find an adhesive that would stick tyvek to a framework.
Possibly Cyanoacrylate woud work.
Tyvek is a spunbonded polyolefin. Not certain if this is a polyester per
se.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
>
> I really advise great caution in these areas .
>
> gil leiter
> MAPLEWOOD, MN
Gil and Kolbers:
Me too!!!
Steve Whitman and his wife paid the ultimate price for
mixing covering and coating processes.
The fabric covering and finishing process is essential for
flight. If it fails, the result is catastrophic. I for one
do not mix and match. I used Stitts (now Polyfibre)
exclusively through Polyspray (silver). Primarily Aerothane
finish paint, but at times have used some Randolph finish
paints. Polytak and Polybrush hold the dacron together.
Polyspray protects it from UV, the one thing that it does
not like and that will destroy it.
Please use caution when making decisions that defer from the
normal covering and coating process.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Aiksnoras" <rob_aiksnoras(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In case you missed her. |
I took the original photo during my visit to the Kolb factory (Now you know
where the negative is). It was a candid shot - usually the best.
I am a new Kolb builder of an old kit (1994). Sue and all of Kolb have been
extremely helpful in my quest of completing this partially built incomplete
kit. Looking forward to the first flight in 200_.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
John Hauck knows more abot this than I do from his years in aviation.
Did not Wittman forget some necessary process that attached the coveing
to the frame and wasn't he flying in a very high velocity aircraft at
the time of his death. The current discussion about alternate coatings
involves ultralites which rarely exceed half the speed at which Wittman
was traveling when the covering let go. This is a key point in these
matters. Ultralights are slower so the loads are lower. Only the
approved systems should be used n fast planes or those intended to carry
more than one person at speeds over 65-75mph in my opinion.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Hoyt <rrhoyt(at)ieee.org> |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
Larry
Think of the sheet as a filter. It passes Blue since that is what you see.
There is no reason to believe it doesn't also pass the adjacent color UV
that you can't see. I do believe, however, that the sheet blocks all light
to some degree and would expect some attenuation in the UV just because of
the fabric threads.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V will
penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat. This
is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day. (Especially my
big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is the
blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ?? Or
will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them behind
it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass with
U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right. That's
the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take a
chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to the
full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and maybe
as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even here in
Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful place,
but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
Cautious Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
The current discussion about alternate coatings
> involves ultralites which rarely exceed half the speed at which Wittman
> was traveling when the covering let go. This is a key point in these
> matters. Ultralights are slower so the loads are lower. Only the
> approved systems should be used n fast planes or those intended to carry
> more than one person at speeds over 65-75mph in my opinion.
> Dan
Dan and Kolbers:
Ah, the beauty of ultralights and experimentals! One has
the choice to do it his way. That is why I build and fly
these things.
However, when it comes to fabric and coatings, I personally
will install and finish like the manual states. No
experimenting or short cuts for me.
High speed, low speed, there are a lot of forces acting on
the fabric of our little airplanes. I don't want to be the
test pilot of an experimental covering process, now or
later. :-)
At times even certified methods of covering airplanes
fails. Sun and Fun 1984 or 85, I watched the fabric depart
the top right wing of a brand new Great Lakes biplane.
Sounded like a violent explosion when the fabric let go.
The pilot was lucky. He was able to hold the aircraft level
at 400 feet long enough to fly out of the immediate airport
area, then jump with a good parachute.
I like to remember that that thin piece of cloth also gives
tremendous strength to the wings and flying surfaces of my
airplane.
Anyhow, I am not telling you all what to do nor not to do.
I am telling you what I will do and not do. :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DSILER1957(at)aol.com |
The 3/4 scale JN-4D Jenny uses a Metro Geo engine. They have a chat list at Jennybuilders(at)listbot.com.
The "guru" on the list is Dan H. His Jenny just won
Best light plane at S&F and at the big "O" last fall. The archives has lots of
info on the geo and different redrives guys have tried. Just another source
of info.
________________________________________________________________________________
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text
| From: | "Spence, Steve" <Steve.E.Spence(at)usdoj.gov> |
| Subject: | More Ultra Violet |
Ron:
I do not agree. If you see blue, it is because the item is reflecting
the blue spectrum, not absorbing it.
Steve Spence FF013
Auburn Hills, MI
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Hoyt
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
Larry
Think of the sheet as a filter. It passes Blue since that is what you see.
There is no reason to believe it doesn't also pass the adjacent color UV
that you can't see. I do believe, however, that the sheet blocks all light
to some degree and would expect some attenuation in the UV just because of
the fabric threads.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V will
penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat. This
is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day. (Especially my
big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is the
blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ?? Or
will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them behind
it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass with
U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right. That's
the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take a
chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to the
full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and maybe
as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even here in
Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful place,
but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
Cautious Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Kolbers,
I have been using Castrol Super Snomobile 2-Cycle oil for several years with
great success, but recently my supplier went out of business and I decided I
would give Pennzoil a try. Unfortunately I am having a difficult time
locating any in the local retail department, hardware and/or auto parts
stores. I try to explain what I want, but they just keep referring me to the
2-cycle outboard motor or multi-purpose 2-cycle oils.
Would someone please let me know what the stock number is (located on the
back side of the container) for Pennzoil 2-Cycle Air Cooled oil. Then, when
I find someone willing to order it for me, I can be assured of getting the
proper item.
Thanks,
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar 377
Audubon NJ USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
<< A couple of questions
is all of the white on the whole wing film? >>
Hmmmm Not sure I understand the phrasing of the question. All of the white
you see IS film. The white only covers the rearmost area and the stripes
between the blue, yellow, and red as you can see in the photos. White does
not cover the whole wing with the other colors added on top of it. Each color
break has -inch overlap only. And the reason is that it's VERY difficult to
get the film to cover itself without trapped air and bubbles. Maybe good
hobbyists know an easy technique to solve that problem, but not me.
<< was the $650 for just the film or for film and the stits products? >>
For ALL the stuff - film Poly-Fiber, Poly-Brush, Poly-Tack, all film, etc.
but only for the wings. I think the cost for the rest of the covered areas
was about $250. That may be a little less expensive than a good, complete
paint job, but I'm not sure.
<< what size, length width and thickness of flim did you use? >>
Top Flight's EconoKote comes in 26-inch widths and lengths of 6 feet and 25
feet. I used some of each size. I don't know the thickness but it's quite
thin, say, about 4 - 6 mils maybe. I made scale drawings of the items I had
to cover (tail, cage, & wings) and drew the color scheme that would best
utilize the material. I used this to make purchases. I only deviated a little
from my drawings in the final application, however, there was still lots of
film left over. I tried to minimize seams at the expense of extra material. I
cut the film to the strip width I needed on a band saw while the film was
still on the cardboard tube roll. With the right bandsaw blade and slow
feeds, the edge result is smooth.
<< can you see the seams? >>
The only noticeable seam is the white seam that runs spanwise out the wing at
the 26-inch dimension from the trailing edge. I found that a white seam is
more noticeable than other colors because it's somewhat translucent. This
happens to leave an interesting appearance to the wing. The dark blue and red
joints and occasional patch are not easy to see at all.
<< would you do it again this way even if painting were an easier option for
you? >>
If I had the talent, equipment, and facility and enjoyed painting I might
paint it. Mainly 'cause this film covering may detract from resale value
since it's a "non-standard" finish. I plan to keep this Firestar for a long
time so resale is of no consequence right now. In my opinion, this covering
routine is a lot easier than painting and much quicker. The Poly-Fiber
covering is the same either way, but I'll guarantee you can't get a good
multi-colored finish with paint in the same time or with the same effort.
Ughconsider the sanding and taping .Ugh. Also, the film very easy to keep
clean and shiney. I use a bit of the new automotive silicone spray wax on the
leading edges and later just clean bugs and stuff off with Windex - just
spray and wipe and it's like new.
<< Was the Great Plains Coverite used as the white on the FS or only on the
Spitfire? >>
Yellow Coverite film was the only film used on the Spitfire, specifically
known as Great Plains Coverite 21st Century film. Top Flight's EconoKote in
all the colors shown was used on the Firestar - no Coverite.
<< is EconoKote available in the white? is either one better, worse,
cheeper then the other? >>
EconoKote is available in white and lots of other colors, about 10, I think.
Don't know about better or worse. EconoKote is less expensive than Coverite
but I picked it because it's available in 25-foot rolls. From Tower Hobbies
(online at: www.towerhobbies.com) EconoKote sells for $7.99/6-foot roll and
$37.99/25-foot roll. EconoKote has a tensile strength of 25,000 psi (for
whatever that's worth) and a weight of 0.20 oz/sq.ft.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polyester film covering - LONG post |
<<< I needed a means to have a respectably-finished
Firestar that would not receive finger-pointing and laughs at the times I
would be in the company of the good looking Kolbs. >>>
<< You ain't one of them dam possums are ya? >>
Hmmmmnow what would make you think I'm one of 'em? The finger-pointing
and laughing ?
Nope. I get that routine from others all by myself, thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com> |
Bill,
The number on the backside of the 8oz. bottle (2cycle air-cooled) is
HHD061ASP041
I bought a case of it at Wal-Mart in the lawn and garden area.
Dennis
PS. The bar code number is 7161194051
----- Original Message -----
From: <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 2:10 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Pennzoil
>
> Hi Kolbers,
>
> I have been using Castrol Super Snomobile 2-Cycle oil for several years
with
> great success, but recently my supplier went out of business and I decided
I
> would give Pennzoil a try. Unfortunately I am having a difficult time
> locating any in the local retail department, hardware and/or auto parts
> stores. I try to explain what I want, but they just keep referring me to
the
> 2-cycle outboard motor or multi-purpose 2-cycle oils.
>
> Would someone please let me know what the stock number is (located on the
> back side of the container) for Pennzoil 2-Cycle Air Cooled oil. Then,
when
> I find someone willing to order it for me, I can be assured of getting the
> proper item.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Varnes
> Original FireStar 377
> Audubon NJ USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Thompson" <eagle1(at)futureone.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com <WVarnes(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:31 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Pennzoil
>
>Hi Kolbers,
>
>I have been using Castrol Super Snomobile 2-Cycle oil for several years
with
>great success, but recently my supplier went out of business and I decided
I
>would give Pennzoil a try. Unfortunately I am having a difficult time
>locating any in the local retail department, hardware and/or auto parts
>stores. I try to explain what I want, but they just keep referring me to
the
>2-cycle outboard motor or multi-purpose 2-cycle oils.
>
>Would someone please let me know what the stock number is (located on the
>back side of the container) for Pennzoil 2-Cycle Air Cooled oil. Then,
when
>I find someone willing to order it for me, I can be assured of getting the
>proper item.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill Varnes
>Original FireStar 377
>Audubon NJ USA
> I just looked on one of my bottles, Its stock # 4130. George, The Bald
Eagle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com> |
Bill, I have an original Firestar with the old style 447, no CDI and I
switched from Penzoil to Klotz and then to Amzoil 2 cycle racing oil. It
is meant for aircooled 2 stroke engine and is fully synthetic. I found the
EGT down almost 100 degrees immediately (1250) --the plugs are brown and
clean. It costs about $8.00 per quart--cheaper by the gallon but I like
the stuff. I also do the Seafoam treatment regularly. There is a
concern that the synthetics oils do not do a good job of residual coating
of interior engine parts but I fly every week or two even in winter. If
the engine sat longer I might use something else or fog the engine.
Liquid cooled engines have more choices for oil but air cooled engines
need the best lubricants that run clean.
Dale Seitzer.
Hi Kolbers,
I have been using Castrol Super Snomobile 2-Cycle oil for several years
with
great success, but recently my supplier went out of business and I decided
I
would give Pennzoil a try.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ft Worth Seminar . . . |
The next seminar on the summer schedule is in Ft. Worth where
George and Becky Orndorff are hosting this event for the third
year. Hotel and location data for the program have been posted
on our website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Individuals who have signed up for this program will be
contacted in the next 10 days to finalize your registration.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
>
>One thing I want to try is using Tyvek none woven polyester sheet instead of
>dacron (polyester) fabric covered in the plyester film. Tyvek is used as
>house wrap and is very tough stuff that shrinks like all polyester. it
>would probably not need to be polybrushed at all because it is airtight by
>itself. it is available in 10 foot wide rolls so a whole wing could be done
>with only a rear seam. have to do lots of testing on it before I could
>trust it though.
>
>TOpher
>
I may be wrong but I think one of the benefits of Tyvek is that it is
pourous and does breathe letting houses self adjust. It's main purpose being
to stop drafts. I may be wrong, it has happened before. Of course one coat
of house paint ought to seal it up real nice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
reading about the stuff.
Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
When working with epoxy boat resins, I bought Tyvek coveralls from System 3.
Cheap, and nearly indestructible. I've also seen sails for small dinghies
made of it. Probably the biggest use I've heard of is as a house wrap to
weatherproof new houses. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 2:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
> You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
> Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
> reading about the stuff.
> Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timandjan(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | seafoam question |
Would somebody please describe the seafoam process for me???
tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
Seems like it might be a little of both. I understand that we "see" a color
because the item absorbs all colors but the one you see, which it reflects.
Fine, but in this case the sheet looks blue, ( reflecting blue ) but also
transmits some of the light, ( passes blue ) although it's much dimmer
inside. I suspect partial to good protection because of absorbing part of
the light, but as I said the other day, I'm a-gonna cover it up, to make
full sure my baby's protected. Seems like if I protect Baby on the ground,
she might just protect my precious ass in the air. Thanks for all the
input, I appreciate it. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Spence, Steve <Steve.E.Spence(at)usdoj.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
>
> Ron:
>
> I do not agree. If you see blue, it is because the item is
reflecting the blue spectrum, not absorbing it.
>
> Steve Spence FF013
> Auburn Hills, MI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Hoyt
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:19 AM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com@inetgw2
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
>
>
> Larry
>
> Think of the sheet as a filter. It passes Blue since that is what you
see.
> There is no reason to believe it doesn't also pass the adjacent color UV
> that you can't see. I do believe, however, that the sheet blocks all
light
> to some degree and would expect some attenuation in the UV just because of
> the fabric threads.
>
> Ron
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
>
>
> OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V
will
> penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
> frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat.
This
> is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day. (Especially my
> big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is
the
> blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ??
Or
> will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
> that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them
behind
> it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass with
> U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right. That's
> the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take a
> chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to
the
> full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and
maybe
> as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
> properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even here
in
> Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful
place,
> but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
> Cautious Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
Big lar, I work for a large medical co. and we use Tyvek for the packaging
of our catheters and stents, after they are packaged they go through a
sterlizing chamber process. I have talked to the rep. who we purchase this from
but never about using it for covering, that is I never new, however I'am going
to be seeing him next week again and I can ask him about it if he has any info.
on this. btw we use about 12,000 sq. ft. per day.
Larry Bourne wrote:
>
> When working with epoxy boat resins, I bought Tyvek coveralls from System 3.
> Cheap, and nearly indestructible. I've also seen sails for small dinghies
> made of it. Probably the biggest use I've heard of is as a house wrap to
> weatherproof new houses. Big Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 2:57 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
> >
> > You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
> > Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
> > reading about the stuff.
> > Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
>Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
>reading about the stuff.
>Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
What sounds "neat" can kill you. IMHO--My "very" humble Opinion.
Geeze-don't want to step on any toes again-but...fabric is important! and
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all.
Example: I almost shot myself down with a nose mounted rocket-worked great
the first few times but....
Thought I would put "fins" on the front "and" fins on the back, because
that was what the "cruise missile" looked like-and it looked "neat"!
Accidentally hit the fire button with my elbow while I was climbing. It
fired---I saw the smoke stream...it turned up- (because of the fins up
front)---2 seconds later I saw a streak coming back at me, no telling what
the closing speed was-(I'm guessing 130-140mph) - I did not have time to
react, except to turn my head to the "right"- (like "that" was going to do
any good)! It hit the bottom of my left wing-the plastic fin cut a 5 inch
slit in the bottom of the wing- the rocket left a black streak along the
bottom of the wing, thank God it didn't hit the Prop! Now I don't redesign
the rockets-I leave them alone-they only have fins on the back for a reason!
They make fabric a certain way for a reason-not that I know why, but Ray
Stits sure did.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
You surely can't be serious. Isn't putting rockets on a civilian
airplane kinda foolish anyway? What were you shooting at? This has gotta
be a joke.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 4/19/00 2:36:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WVarnes(at)aol.com
writes:
Try going to this site. It gives a lot of good info, including ordering.
http://store.yahoo.com/oilstore/penaircool2c.html
Merle
<< Subj: Kolb-List: Pennzoil
Date: 4/19/00 2:36:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: WVarnes(at)aol.com
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
To: Kolb-List(at)matronics.com
Hi Kolbers,
I have been using Castrol Super Snomobile 2-Cycle oil for several years with
great success, but recently my supplier went out of business and I decided I
would give Pennzoil a try. Unfortunately I am having a difficult time
locating any in the local retail department, hardware and/or auto parts
stores. I try to explain what I want, but they just keep referring me to
the
2-cycle outboard motor or multi-purpose 2-cycle oils.
Would someone please let me know what the stock number is (located on the
back side of the container) for Pennzoil 2-Cycle Air Cooled oil. Then, when
I find someone willing to order it for me, I can be assured of getting the
proper item.
Thanks,
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar 377
Audubon NJ USA>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael highsmith" <firehawk54(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help: No spark on 582 |
All I can suggest is that you take off your blue blocker sun shades.
Been there done that.
Firehawk
>
> >
> > No spark on either set of plugs.
> >
> > Replaced both CDI units, all wires with resistor ones, installed
>resistor
> > plugs and metal caps.
> >
> > No spark.
> >
> > While hand propping, a scope on the red trigger wires indicates a decent
> > Hall effect pulse, about 2VAC p-p. The green/white wires show about
>75VAC
> > p-p. Yellow/black ground wires are disconnected.
> >
> > No spark.
> >
> > Used a straight plug wire from the replacement CDI unit, straight from
>the
> > unit to case.
> >
> > No spark.
> >
> > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Tom Bonomo
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
> I may be wrong but I think one of the benefits of Tyvek is that it is
>pourous and does breathe letting houses self adjust. It's main purpose
being
>to stop drafts
i shouldnt have said air tight but it is very nearly air tight. it is
permeable to water vapour but if you try to blow air through it you get
nowhere fast. it is liquid water proof as well, they sell it as waterproof
breathable windbreakers at target.
John H. I would agree that without very careful testing no one should try a
new covering system. but remember that stits is a "new covering system" and
if no body experimented to figure it out we would be flying cotten and dope
still, and if nobody tried cotten and dope we wouldnt be flying period.
when i say i would like to try tyvek i dont mean I am going to throw it on
my firestar and go flying!!!!!! I am going to make a frame and try it out
and see what kind of properties I get compared to stits. if they seem
acceptable then maybe I would cover a fuselage or some none criticle part of
an airplane with it and wring it out for a few years. thats how we make
progress.
Polytack should work on tyvek is because it has surface texture, it is looks
sort of like cotten candy pressed into a sheet. very fine fiber size.
i was wrong, tyvek is polyethylene not polyester.
according to the maker
"Tyvek is DuPont's brand of spun-bonded olefin - a high-tech fabric created
by DuPont from high-density polyethylene (HDPE). The manufacturing process
creates a unique balance of properties that are ideal for a Protective
Cover. Protective covers manufactured with 100% DuPont Tyvek provide
superior protection from harmful environmental conditions. product is
lightweight, easy to handle, and provides superior protection from water,
dirt, dust, UV and IR radiation and many chemicals. "
note that UV and IR light dont hurt the stuff.
sorry to send the list off on a tangent again
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> What sounds "neat" can kill you. IMHO--My "very" humble Opinion.
> Geeze-don't want to step on any toes again-but...fabric is important! and
> I'm not trying to be a know-it-all.
Possum:
Well said. Sometimes I think info that comes from learning
something the hard way falls on deaf ears, or in the case of
the internet, "deaf eyes...." :-)
I hate to see anybody get in trouble and hurt themselves or
others, especially after I have already done this back in
the ancient 80's. Sometimes I get the feeling I am
responsible, but I ain't responsible for anyone but me.
I'll do it my way until a better way comes along.
I have shot thousands of rockets from AH-1Gs. The 2.75 inch
folding fin aerial rocket has more ways to hurt the laucher
than the target. Next time we get together remind me and I
will tell you some war stories.
Hang in there,
john h
PS: I have to finish cutting weeds and grass before I get
back on the MK III and 912S. Just got word today that BRS
is shipping new prcht. Won't be long now til flight time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
>
>You surely can't be serious. Isn't putting rockets on a civilian
>airplane kinda foolish anyway? What were you shooting at? This has gotta
>be a joke.
>Dan
Not hardly-want to see a viedo tap-send me your snail mail address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
This is interesting, and if he tests it the way he says, should be OK. I
think I'd be most concerned with glue adhesion, and does it really shrink.
We have high density polyethylene 15 gal. buckets on the roof of the hotel,
( Ritz-Carlton, Rancho Mirage ) with some mighty potent chemicals in them
for the boilers. Nalco 2548 for example. Those buckets are translucent
white, and have been up there for years in the direct sun. I've been there
3 1/2 yrs, and they were there long before that. Still look, feel, and flex
like new. Hell for tough. Which plastic you've got makes a huge
difference, and you can't tell by looking or feeling. We also get 1/4"
translucent white tubing, for the chemicals, and for the pneumatic a/c
controls. Looks and feels like the stuff in the buckets, but degrades and
crumbles within a few months in the desert sun. Interestingly, the black
tubing which feels the same, and which you can buy at Ace Hdwre will last a
long time in the same place. I think (??) it's because the black absorbs
the U/V, but then again, it could well be a different plastic entirely.
I'll be interested in hearing what that rep has to say about his Tyvek
packaging. Sorry folks, Vamoose is still going to be covered with the
full Stits/PolyFiber process. I'm doing plenty of experimenting already;
somebody elses' turn now. Big Lar
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary r. voigt <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
> Big lar, I work for a large medical co. and we use Tyvek for the
packaging
> of our catheters and stents, after they are packaged they go through a
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
I've gotta go with Possum. Why in the hell would you mess around with a
system developed over years & years by Ray Stitts & others I can't
understand. I almost want to say, "Use your brain Kim."
The instructions for use with the polyfiber system are very, very, very
explicit about mixing other products & UV protection - they say in one year
the fabric will deteriorate w/out proper protection. Model airplane film is
for model airplanes.
I'm no rocket scientist, & I know that many innovations and inventions have
come from people doing what wasn't accepted as ok in their day, but I sleep
better just following the directions from the people who designed &
developed the systems we depend on for our very lives. Otto Lilienthal died
flying one of his gliders after hundreds of glides...God bless him for
advancing aviation, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to play black
jack with physics.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
>>
>>You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
>>Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
>>reading about the stuff.
>>Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
>
>
>What sounds "neat" can kill you. IMHO--My "very" humble Opinion.
>Geeze-don't want to step on any toes again-but...fabric is important! and
>I'm not trying to be a know-it-all.
>Example: I almost shot myself down with a nose mounted rocket-worked great
>the first few times but....
>Thought I would put "fins" on the front "and" fins on the back, because
>that was what the "cruise missile" looked like-and it looked "neat"!
>Accidentally hit the fire button with my elbow while I was climbing. It
>fired---I saw the smoke stream...it turned up- (because of the fins up
>front)---2 seconds later I saw a streak coming back at me, no telling what
>the closing speed was-(I'm guessing 130-140mph) - I did not have time to
>react, except to turn my head to the "right"- (like "that" was going to do
>any good)! It hit the bottom of my left wing-the plastic fin cut a 5 inch
>slit in the bottom of the wing- the rocket left a black streak along the
>bottom of the wing, thank God it didn't hit the Prop! Now I don't redesign
>the rockets-I leave them alone-they only have fins on the back for a
reason!
>They make fabric a certain way for a reason-not that I know why, but Ray
>Stits sure did.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Something in here has been itching at my head, and it finally came clear -
when I was trying to get to sleep for a 5:00 AM wake-up. Poly Tak, and
Poly Brush don't really stick to the Stits fabric, they soak through and
encapsulate the fibers, so that glue is sticking to glue, and the fabric
happens to be in between. The Poly Tak sticks the whole mess to the
aluminum. I mentioned in the previous message that I'd be concerned about
adhesion. Tyvek may be slightly porous, I'm not sure, but I do know that
it's not a woven fabric, and will hold water. I really question whether the
Tak and Brush will stick that Tyvek down. To properly glue a plastic, you
need a solvent that will melt the surface, and effectively weld the pieces
together. That's fine, but if you "slightly melt" the Tyvek, what
properties will the joint have ?? Will the solvent stick to the aluminum ??
Will the partly melted Tyvek stick to the aluminum ?? From what our
experimenter said, he sounds like he's got a conservative, well thought out
plan of action, and that's good. Be careful. Someone mentioned the
Wittman crash earlier. If memory serves, didn't he mix techniques between
dope/cotton and Stits, with a resulting loss of fabric from the tail ?? At
200 mph ?? Earlier today someone else cautioned about that very thing,
using that example. Someone else expressed shock that someone would try
techniques that weren't tested and proven. Most people would probably agree
with him, but the point was also made earlier that this is how Stits, and
Ceconite, etc. came to be, and are now accepted as the industry standard.
If someone doesn't try new things, no progress will be made. It takes all
types to make this whole system work; none are completely right, and none
are completely wrong. We're all necessary, so I don't think it's
appropriate to chomp either on those who do, or those who don't.
Soap Box Lar. Whew, don't I ever get going ??
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bourne <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
> This is interesting, and if he tests it the way he says, should be OK. I
> think I'd be most concerned with glue adhesion, and does it really shrink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann) |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
The drawback to Tyvek as a covering would likely be an inability to
properly tension it. Also Polyethylene is very slippery stuff and the
types of paints that bond with it are kinda limited. I am a
screnprinter. I have printed banners made of Tyvek. There are special
inks (paints) for it. They tend to get stiff and crack if applied too
thick. This is my firsthand experience with it. Also there are different
grades. Now many of the large format digital printers are capable of
printing directly onto Tyvek. Outdoor durablity is not long at this
time. This type of Tyvek is corona treated to be ink and toner
receptive. If you want to test Tyvek try to get some of this kind from a
large sign and banner supplier.
Good luck
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
Someone had to knock the corners of the block to make the wheel. I think it
is great that we have innovators. I just happen to be a follower but I am
glad we have experimenters. If it wasn't for Homer I wouldn't be flying a
Kolb.
Merle
Twinstar in Orlando
now building FireFly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Group,
Chris Sudlow prompted me to respond to this line, when he said "I
almost want to say, "Use your brain Kim." But them I read Larry Bourne's reply,
below, and he expressed my concerns very well. If we are too harsh on new
ideas, we will discourage people from sharing their ideas. Lately I have been
happy to see some new ideas on this list. It stimulates my imagination.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
SE Wisconsin
Larry Bourne wrote:
>
> snip...........
> Someone mentioned the
> Wittman crash earlier. If memory serves, didn't he mix techniques between
> dope/cotton and Stits, with a resulting loss of fabric from the tail ?? At
> 200 mph ?? Earlier today someone else cautioned about that very thing,
> using that example. Someone else expressed shock that someone would try
> techniques that weren't tested and proven. Most people would probably agree
> with him, but the point was also made earlier that this is how Stits, and
> Ceconite, etc. came to be, and are now accepted as the industry standard.
> If someone doesn't try new things, no progress will be made. It takes all
> types to make this whole system work; none are completely right, and none
> are completely wrong. We're all necessary, so I don't think it's
> appropriate to chomp either on those who do, or those who don't.
> Soap Box Lar. Whew, don't I ever get going ??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dell Vinal <zoper(at)mint.net> |
I want to replace the oil lines on my 582. My line to the rotary
valve gear area has began weeping oil after sitting this winter so I'd
say its replace time. After searching my books and the leaf catalog I
still can't find what I want. I need a source and description for the
parts man. Has anyone else done this ?Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Russell" <jr(at)rometool.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
> Group,
>
> Chris Sudlow prompted me to respond to this line, when he said "I
> almost want to say, "Use your brain Kim." But them I read Larry Bourne's
reply,
> below, and he expressed my concerns very well. If we are too harsh on new
> ideas, we will discourage people from sharing their ideas. Lately I have
been
> happy to see some new ideas on this list. It stimulates my imagination.
>
> John Jung
> Firestar II N6163J
> SE Wisconsin
>
Group,
I could not agree more.
John Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 00-04-20 8:46:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, zoper(at)mint.net
writes:
<< I want to replace the oil lines on my 582. My line to the rotary
valve gear area has began weeping oil after sitting this winter so I'd
say its replace time. >>
Call Kerry at Lockwood aviation. There is a part number which you can find
in your 582 parts manual,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
If I remember right, Steve Wittman had used an older type technique when he
covered the wings of his airplane. The wings were all sheeted with thin
plywood, and then the fabric was used over the whole wood wing as a
finishing and smoothing layer.
This is a good way to do things, has a long history.
With cotton or linen fabric, you can use aircraft dope as an adhesive,
laying the fabric over the wood, and then doping over/through it.
As the dope penetrates the fabric, it sticks the fabric to the surface
underneath, and it makes a real tight attachment, especially doping a large
sheet of fabric over a flat sheet of wood.
If you have been around long enough to remember covering model airplanes
with silk, and doping the silk in place with Aero Gloss or Testors dope, it
is the same idea exactly.
When Wittman laid the fabric over the plywood, he did not properly attach
it down. Can't remember exactly how he mixed apples and oranges, but
whatever it was that he used to attach the fabric out in the middle of the
span, the airflow began to suck it loose from the plywood, and his airfoil
began to radically change shape as the fabric sucked up.
I am thinking (and could be wrong) that he glued the edges down with
Polytak, or it's equivalent, and then just used Polybrush everywhere else,
expecting the doping effect of the Poly-brush soaking through the Dacron
into the wood to hold the fabric in place. It didn't.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
I don't have a problem with people experimenting with anything. Especially
the model airplane film over the fabric, I've seen it and I think it looks
fine. But when people start talking about wrapping their wings with "Saran
wrap" and crankin up "Old Yella", I'm just afraid that someone will
actually do it.
As far as the rockets go, I'm not talking about the "big" ones that Hawk
mentioned, just "model" rockets- kinda big model rockets- but just hobby
shop stuff. Don't really shoot them at anything in particular, maybe a
buzzard or two, mostly just "fly-in" fun stuff. Besides, they worked out
better that the "Paint ball" gun idea.
Ole Possum
Make that "Not so old" Possum,
In fact, make that "Strapping young Lad, still in my forties" Possum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
Well ok. I wasn't trying to be HARSH about the model airplane film on the
airplanes, but I guess it came off that way, and I only mentioned the "use
your brain" thing cause I thought it was humorous when it came up on the
list before. I'm certainly not an expert. It just seems a bit whacked out to
me, that's all. MEKY Lar expressed it with much more grace than I did.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: John Russell <jr(at)rometool.com>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:19 AM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
>
>>
>> Group,
>>
>> Chris Sudlow prompted me to respond to this line, when he said
"I
>> almost want to say, "Use your brain Kim." But them I read Larry Bourne's
>reply,
>> below, and he expressed my concerns very well. If we are too harsh on
new
>> ideas, we will discourage people from sharing their ideas. Lately I have
>been
>> happy to see some new ideas on this list. It stimulates my imagination.
>>
>> John Jung
>> Firestar II N6163J
>> SE Wisconsin
>>
> Group,
>
> I could not agree more.
>
> John Russell
>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wittman crash |
As best as I can recall Steve covered his wings using polyester fabric but
traditional doping systems for the glue/paint. Traditional doping systems
will not hold down polyester very well. Steve's very high speed plane flew
many many miles very fast with this mixed covering job and then he had a
delamination at high speed that resulted in the wing fluttering off the
plane. thats what I remember anyway.
yes this flying business is very dangerous. no you should not go messing
with covering systems without a scientific testing approach. yes we should
try other systems so we can always use the best materials and system
available. Tyvek covered with film might be a fantastic way to go, or it
might not work at all. there has been a none flying, static display in the
ultralight area at Oshkosh the last couple of years of a flying saucer
shaped "plane" that was covered using tyvek. it looks very much like a
polyester job done through a first thin layer of silver, but if you look
closely you can see the words tyvek printed all over the fabric. if you go
to Oshkosh and its still parked out there by the barn check it out. I am
going to play around with it on some frames and see if it works at all. You
got to remember that the only thing magical about the Stits method is that
Ray took the time to experiment with it until he found and documented a
system that works. it is polyester fabric from the fabric store and some
vinyl base solids desolved in solvents. The fact that Ray came up with this
system was that that was what a very clever guy could find that was
available at the time. just having to be near MEK is reason enough to use
some system other then Stits. you guys have been making fun of it, but that
stuff is really nasty.
I am kinda stunned that anybody would be against trying to improve on Stits.
I think Stits is ok but I am sure not thrilled with the stuff. expensive,
time consuming, high skill level required and poisonous. a couple of wiffs
of aerothane will destroy your lungs folks. whats to love. oh thats right
it does look nice and holds up real well IF applied correctly.
by the way my main interest in this is I hate to paint. If I can get a
great looking finish without having to fling gazillions of micro particles
of plastic desolved in solvent at my wings and hope that the resulting film
of solution dries into a smooth shinny layer of plastic I am inclined to go
with it. Makes more sense to me to just take a sheet of perfectly smooth
cured plastic film and stick it to the wing in a couple of pieces.
mad scientist topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wittman crash |
it is polyester fabric from the fabric store and some
> vinyl base solids desolved in solvents.
>
> mad scientist topher
Topher and Gang:
Might want to check out the above before you rush right down
and buy a couple hundred yards. I believe there is a
difference. What we use for airplanes is refered to as
"virgin." Not so for nurses uniforms and the fabric store.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leaf" <705460(at)ican.net> |
Here is a unusual problem I am hoping someone on the list can help with.
I am putting together a new 503 DCDI engine for my firestar. If you look at
the engine from the end with the motor mount level with the bench the carbs
are leaning down 3 or 5 degrees. The picture of the engine in the manual
show the carbs as being parallel with the motor mount. What have I done
wrong ?. The rubber carb sockets are installed as far as they can go so
there is no gap when you look in through the rubber socket to the cast alum.
manifold. They appear to be tight. I even called the distributor of the
engine in BC and they told me the carbs should be level with the motor
mount. I have had it apart to check this 3 times. Does any body have a
recent version of a 503 engine with oil injection intake manifolds that can
have look at their carb angle ?
Thanks in advance
Dave Leaf
Port Perry , Ontario, Canada.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Date: April 19, 2000 6:14 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Tyvek
>
>You guys got me interested in your funky fabric.
>Typed in "tyvek" in the Google search engine, and spent some quality time
>reading about the stuff.
>Don't know if it's any good for airplanes or not, but it sounds neat.
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I am almost certain that they angle down a little [as on my Firestar]. If
you were to invert the engine [for some reason] you would have to remove the
intake manifold and turn it 180 degrees.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "youngblood" <barry(at)hcis.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Leaf <705460(at)ican.net>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:34 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 carb
>
>Here is a unusual problem I am hoping someone on the list can help with.
>I am putting together a new 503 DCDI engine fo
>
Yes my carb mounts are at a slight angle. Have seen some up and some angled
down. Can't remember which way mine are right now.
Barry FSII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
I use Tyvek as a cover for my plane outside. After about 5 months outside
it has deteriorated very bad and rips easily. I sure wouldn't put it on a
wing!! It makes a good cover though. Very slippery, no chaffing. It also
breathes.
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 377
Schenectady, NY
http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar/
----- Original Message -----
From: "wood" <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultra-Violet
>
>
> >
> >One thing I want to try is using Tyvek none woven polyester sheet instead
of
> >dacron (polyester) fabric covered in the plyester film. Tyvek is used as
> >house wrap and is very tough stuff that shrinks like all polyester. it
> >would probably not need to be polybrushed at all because it is airtight
by
> >itself. it is available in 10 foot wide rolls so a whole wing could be
done
> >with only a rear seam. have to do lots of testing on it before I could
> >trust it though.
> >
> >TOpher
> >
>
> I may be wrong but I think one of the benefits of Tyvek is that it is
> pourous and does breathe letting houses self adjust. It's main purpose
being
> to stop drafts. I may be wrong, it has happened before. Of course one coat
> of house paint ought to seal it up real nice.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | My kolb purchase at last |
As some of you may remember quite a few months ago I
posted an ad that I have wanted an ultralight since about
1980 but never had the guts or the timing was off, whatever
the reason it just did not happen. It might even had been a
blessing ( states Ralph burlingame of mound , mn.) early
designs were just so,so. one person on your list even had
the guts to say " if you havn't done it by now it will
never happen. I kept this persons e-mail but I will not
mention his name for the sake of embarrassment. he knows
who he is. I have been just lurking at the list for over a
year now, and I'am astounded at the wealth of information on
the list. I have wanted to purchase a kit, but it was very
time consuming. and my hobbies include, scuba diving through
the ice, hunting , fishing , collecting antique john deere
tractors and stationary gas engines, and golf. that's maybe
why I never purchased one before. It seems even the ones
that came up on the list were always about 1200 miles from
mn. I have even bid on kolbs from the ebay site, not a good
idea when your 1600 miles. well my ship finally came in. a
1995 kolb fs came up for sale a short time ago that is 95%
built and about 50 hrs. to go on completion. It has a BRS
chute, brakes, full winshield, ect. all I have to do is
install the winshield, gauges and complete the wiring and
instal the chute. this is where your help comes in, can you
tell me where the best location is to place the chute or is
this just a matter of preference. I would also like to know
where there are some afi's or bfi's that owns a mark III and
lives in the state of nd, sd, iowa, or wi. I need to take my
training. Ralph, you will soon have another flying partner.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
excelsior, mn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My kolb purchase at last |
In a message dated 04/20/2000 10:22:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
johndeereantique(at)uswest.net writes:
<>
<< my hobbies include, scuba diving through the ice, hunting , fishing ,
collecting antique john deere tractors >>
Congrats on your purchase. I have my Second Chantz soft pak chute installed
between the wings and use a lexan center section gap seal. The rocket motor
points up vertically and protrudes thru a small hole in the lexan cover.
Then there is also a flap in the lexan that will open up permitting the chute
to be extracted by the rocket The lexan cover was a modification, by Kolb,
to the original fabric gap seal. I modified it further (slightly) to
accomodate the chute and can still remove it easily to fold the wings, which
I do each flight.
By the way, Homer Kolb was also an antique John Deere tractor collector!
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar 377
Audubon NJ USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra-Violet |
Now, THAT is real news ! ! ! Thanks Scott. Shows that making haste
slowly is the best way in something like this. Now just to follow up on
that, Vamoose is probably gonna hafta live outside, and in the summer desert
sun, that is NOT funny. I know Stits is supposed to last for years in the
sun, but I'm still a little spooky. Especially thinking about having to
re-cover a few years from now, given my great love for the process. What
do you guys recommend for wing coverings ?? I'd like to build ( sew ?? ) a
silverized windshield cover to try and hold down interior temps as well.
What material for that ?? For that reason, and also for anti-theft
protection, the radios will live at home between flights. I have a neat,
padded Nintendo bag that is perfect for them. I have to agree with
Topher on the MEK, and solvents thing. Paul von L. tried to talk me into
the water based system, but I already had the Stits, and money's tight. He
and others have had good things to say about it. Comes from that ole
experimenting again. Sorry Jim, maybe I shoulda waited till tomorrow night
before saying that. I'll be talking to you tomorrow. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Olendorf <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultra-Violet
>
> I use Tyvek as a cover for my plane outside. After about 5 months outside
> it has deteriorated very bad and rips easily. I sure wouldn't put it on a
> wing!! It makes a good cover though. Very slippery, no chaffing. It also
> breathes.
>
>
> Scott Olendorf
> Original Firestar, Rotax 377
> Schenectady, NY
> http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wood" <duesouth(at)iname.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultra-Violet
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >One thing I want to try is using Tyvek none woven polyester sheet
instead
> of
> > >dacron (polyester) fabric covered in the plyester film. Tyvek is used
as
> > >house wrap and is very tough stuff that shrinks like all polyester. it
> > >would probably not need to be polybrushed at all because it is airtight
> by
> > >itself. it is available in 10 foot wide rolls so a whole wing could be
> done
> > >with only a rear seam. have to do lots of testing on it before I could
> > >trust it though.
> > >
> > >TOpher
> > >
> >
> > I may be wrong but I think one of the benefits of Tyvek is that it is
> > pourous and does breathe letting houses self adjust. It's main purpose
> being
> > to stop drafts. I may be wrong, it has happened before. Of course one
coat
> > of house paint ought to seal it up real nice.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
I hate (sure) to monopolize the List tonight, but something occurred to me a
couple of minutes ago, while sending a pic of ole Lar with his famous
covered rudder. Long ago, when I first started whining, some one mentioned
the idea of putting the Poly Tak into a squeeze bottle, and applying it with
the bottle and a finger. Have any of you tried to find just the right
squeeze bottle when you want one ?? That's another story, but I did find
the ideal bottle for just $1.69 at Rite Aid. ( Hate that name ! ! ! )
Well anyway, I tried it, and boy would I make PolyFiber rich. There was
'Tak everywhere. I think I'm safe in saying that that section is Solidly
Glued Down ! ! ! So, it went by the wayside. Then the other day, some
one - and I deleted the message, so I can't give you credit - mentioned
something to the effect of using the bottle with a BRUSH to spread the
'Tak. Yesterday I whupped myself out to the torture table after work, and
had at it. Got to looking at the squoze bottle, and the idea went "Ding."
Grabbed the bottle and an acid brush, and used the bottle to lay down a
medium bead of goober, and kinda paddled it along with the brush. WOW ! ! !
Fast, even, and neat. Laid the fabric over it, slopped it with MEK, and had
a beautiful smooth job in no time - and stuck Solid. Thank You All ! ! !
Now if only the rest of this SOB was done. Mekky
Lar.........................Oops.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
- mentioned
>something to the effect of using the bottle with a BRUSH to spread the
>'Tak
soomebody sells a squeeze bottle with a brush built into the outlet.
basically a self filling brush that I though would work great for poly
attacking the plane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Larry Bourne wrote:
>
>
> Something in here has been itching at my head, and it finally came clear -
> when I was trying to get to sleep for a 5:00 AM wake-up. Poly Tak, and
> Poly Brush don't really stick to the Stits fabric, they soak through and
> encapsulate the fibers, so that glue is sticking to glue, and the fabric
> happens to be in between. The Poly Tak sticks the whole mess to the
> aluminum. I mentioned in the previous message that I'd be concerned about
> adhesion. Tyvek may be slightly porous, I'm not sure, but I do know that
> it's not a woven fabric, and will hold water. I really question whether the
> Tak and Brush will stick that Tyvek down. To properly glue a plastic, you
> need a solvent that will melt the surface, and effectively weld the pieces
> together. That's fine, but if you "slightly melt" the Tyvek, what
> properties will the joint have ?? Will the solvent stick to the aluminum ??
> Will the partly melted Tyvek stick to the aluminum ?? From what our
> experimenter said, he sounds like he's got a conservative, well thought out
> plan of action, and that's good. Be careful. Someone mentioned the
> Wittman crash earlier. If memory serves, didn't he mix techniques between
> dope/cotton and Stits, with a resulting loss of fabric from the tail ?? At
> 200 mph ?? Earlier today someone else cautioned about that very thing,
> using that example. Someone else expressed shock that someone would try
> techniques that weren't tested and proven. Most people would probably agree
> with him, but the point was also made earlier that this is how Stits, and
> Ceconite, etc. came to be, and are now accepted as the industry standard.
> If someone doesn't try new things, no progress will be made. It takes all
> types to make this whole system work; none are completely right, and none
> are completely wrong. We're all necessary, so I don't think it's
> appropriate to chomp either on those who do, or those who don't.
> Soap Box Lar. Whew, don't I ever get going ??
You have presented a very good discussion of the issues that are
involved here. Standard aircraft polyester is woven in such a manner
that the PolyTak can be forced through the weave and encapsulate them,
thus providing adhesion. Polyethylene is also a very smooth surface
just like polyester and any adhesion must come from similar
encapsulation. If Tyvek is really so tight a "weave" that it will hold
water, I doubt that sufficent adhesive can be forced through the weave
to provide encapsulation. As you point out, adhesion can be obtained in
some cases if the adhesive contains a solvent that will soften the
surfaces. In general both polyester and polyethylene are not even
slightly soluable in any reasonable solvent.
Yourself and several others have pointed out that the current "standard"
systems were once unproven and were developed by experimentation. No
argument there, but I have questions as to whether most people
understand just what such experimentation means. Much more is involved
than simply making a couple of test panels and working with them.
Anyone who has not had a background in such research should proceed very
carefully. There is more to proving a new concept and procedure than
meets the eye.
Last, I have to ask the question "Why?". There were clear and evident
problems and reasons for dissatisfaction with the old cotton and Irish
linen plus dope systems, and the interem systems of polyester fabric
with nitrate and butyrate dope still left much to be desired. Hence
there was much to be gained when Ray Stits (note there is only one t)
set out to develope something better. Today it is difficult to see what
would be gained with the processes being discussed.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
Ron Hoyt wrote:
>
>
> Larry
>
> Think of the sheet as a filter. It passes Blue since that is what you see.
> There is no reason to believe it doesn't also pass the adjacent color UV
> that you can't see. I do believe, however, that the sheet blocks all light
> to some degree and would expect some attenuation in the UV just because of
> the fabric threads.
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
>
> OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V will
> penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
> frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat. This
> is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day.
Sure glad you put the (??) after "slowed down", because this is
meaningless. ALL electro-magnetic radiation travels at the same
velocity under all conditions and cannot either be speeded up or slowed
down. The difference between UV and IR is a matter of wave length, with
the shorter wave lengths (high frequency) being more energetic. This is
not changed by passing through glass or any other media. Light as we
think of it has a wide range of wave lengths from the long IR to the
shorter UV. In traveling through a media some wavelengths are absorbed
(media heats up) and/or reflected back.
The fact that one cannot see light coming through a media does NOT
insure that wavelengths outside the visible spectra are also blocked.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
(Especially my
> big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is the
> blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ?? Or
> will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
> that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them behind
> it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass with
> U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right. That's
> the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take a
> chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to the
> full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and maybe
> as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
> properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even here in
> Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful place,
> but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
> Cautious Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wittman crash |
Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> If I remember right, Steve Wittman had used an older type technique when he
> covered the wings of his airplane. The wings were all sheeted with thin
> plywood, and then the fabric was used over the whole wood wing as a
> finishing and smoothing layer.
> This is a good way to do things, has a long history.
> With cotton or linen fabric, you can use aircraft dope as an adhesive,
> laying the fabric over the wood, and then doping over/through it.
> As the dope penetrates the fabric, it sticks the fabric to the surface
> underneath, and it makes a real tight attachment, especially doping a large
> sheet of fabric over a flat sheet of wood.
> If you have been around long enough to remember covering model airplanes
> with silk, and doping the silk in place with Aero Gloss or Testors dope, it
> is the same idea exactly.
> When Wittman laid the fabric over the plywood, he did not properly attach
> it down. Can't remember exactly how he mixed apples and oranges, but
> whatever it was that he used to attach the fabric out in the middle of the
> span, the airflow began to suck it loose from the plywood, and his airfoil
> began to radically change shape as the fabric sucked up.
> I am thinking (and could be wrong) that he glued the edges down with
> Polytak, or it's equivalent, and then just used Polybrush everywhere else,
> expecting the doping effect of the Poly-brush soaking through the Dacron
> into the wood to hold the fabric in place. It didn't.
> Richard Pike
He used nitrate dope for this purpose instead of following the
procedures outlined in the PolyFiber manual.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lucien morais <molu(at)achilles.net> |
>
>Here is a unusual problem I am hoping someone on the list can help with.
>I am putting together a new 503 DCDI engine for my firestar. If you look at
>the engine from the end with the motor mount level with the bench the carbs
>are leaning down 3 or 5 degrees. The picture of the engine in the manual
>show the carbs as being parallel with the motor mount. What have I done
>wrong ?. The rubber carb sockets are installed as far as they can go so
>there is no gap when you look in through the rubber socket to the cast alum.
>manifold. They appear to be tight. I even called the distributor of the
>engine in BC and they told me the carbs should be level with the motor
>mount. I have had it apart to check this 3 times. Does any body have a
>recent version of a 503 engine with oil injection intake manifolds that can
>have look at their carb angle ?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>
>Dave Leaf
-------------------------------------------
Go check the Buzzman Web page
http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetroublshooting/techtips/techtips1.htm
Here what he is saying about the carb intake manifold.
-----------------------------
Inverted installation problem with the Rotax dual
carb 503 engines.
If you are using a dual carb 503 in an inverted
installation you must turn the aluminum intake manifolds
over - once again the engine was designed to run
spark plugs up. On the 503 dual carb the inlets -
when the engine is upright have a slight upward
incline. When you turn the engine over this incline is
NOW down, which necessitates the removal of the
intake, turning it 180 degrees and reinstalling it.
Hope this help
Lucien
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
> - mentioned
> >something to the effect of using the bottle with a BRUSH to spread the
> >'Tak
>
> soomebody sells a squeeze bottle with a brush built into the outlet.
> basically a self filling brush that I though would work great for poly
> attacking the plane
A technique was developed by my PolyFiber dealer that works great. He
uses a squeeze bottle similar to the ketchup/mustard bottles seen in
some restraunts. It has the pointy shaped cap with a small hole. The
procedure is to simply squeeze a bead of PolyTak about 12" long, spread
it quickly out with the finger, and apply the fabric. Then move along
to the next 12" section. This works well if the surface is horizontal,
but if it is vertical one uses a slight modification. Place the tip of
the bottle against the surface. Place finger of left hand against the
tip and the surface. Squeeze and move bottle tip and finger together.
Finger acts as a dam and one gets the appropriate bead of PolyTak.
Spread the bead over the surface and apply the fabric. Thinks work best
if the bottle is kept relatively full of PolyTak as this permits a more
controlled feed by gentle squeezing. I keep a rag draped through my
belt and quickly wipe the finger after each application.
Prior to learning about this process I used a baby food bottle and a
brush. Within MINUTES solvent loss from the bottle takes place. In
dipping the brush and then wiping on the lip one starts to get a buildup
of semi dried PolyTak, and quickly starts getting lumps. The brush
itself soon starts to dry, and gets the buildup of lumps. The bottle
technique eliminates this completely.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My kolb purchase at last |
Gary,
Congratulations on you purchase. Good luck with finishing the plane.
If I might be so bold, I have a suggestion; Get started with lessons,
soon. If you don't have then done by the time you finish the plane, you mike be
tempted to fly it anyway.
John Jung
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
Larry Bourne wrote:
>
>
> I hate (sure) to monopolize the List tonight, but something occurred to me a
> couple of minutes ago, while sending a pic of ole Lar with his famous
> covered rudder. Long ago, when I first started whining, some one mentioned
> the idea of putting the Poly Tak into a squeeze bottle, and applying it with
> the bottle and a finger. Have any of you tried to find just the right
> squeeze bottle when you want one ?? That's another story, but I did find
> the ideal bottle for just $1.69 at Rite Aid. ( Hate that name ! ! ! )
> Well anyway, I tried it, and boy would I make PolyFiber rich. There was
> 'Tak everywhere. I think I'm safe in saying that that section is Solidly
> Glued Down ! ! ! So, it went by the wayside. Then the other day, some
> one - and I deleted the message, so I can't give you credit - mentioned
> something to the effect of using the bottle with a BRUSH to spread the
> 'Tak. Yesterday I whupped myself out to the torture table after work, and
> had at it. Got to looking at the squoze bottle, and the idea went "Ding."
> Grabbed the bottle and an acid brush, and used the bottle to lay down a
> medium bead of goober, and kinda paddled it along with the brush. WOW ! ! !
> Fast, even, and neat. Laid the fabric over it, slopped it with MEK, and had
> a beautiful smooth job in no time - and stuck Solid. Thank You All ! ! !
> Now if only the rest of this SOB was done. Mekky
> Lar.........................Oops.
Just sent out another post on this subject. Don't know what kind of a
bottle you used, but the rite (pun intended) kind of bottle works very
well indeed. Hole in end of snout was maybe 1/16". Believe source of
the bottle was Revlon. In using this bottle I used much LESS PolyTak,
with almost zero waste. Also, elimination of the lumps and gel slugs
of dried PolyTak made for much easier iron working on the cemented
surfaces..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Russell" <jr(at)rometool.com> |
The 503 I had on my firestar had oil injection, it injected the oil into
the intake manifolds from the bottom side of the intakes, engine upright,
you could rotate the manifolds 180 deg. but I believe, if my memory
serves me right , you would have to modify oil lines(longer). But this may
create a problem with gravity causing oil to drain out of the end of the
lines
while the engine is off, this may create problems during the first few
minutes
at start up? I believe my carbs were slightly tilted down.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: lucien morais <molu(at)achilles.net>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 503 carb
>
> >
> >Here is a unusual problem I am hoping someone on the list can help with.
> >I am putting together a new 503 DCDI engine for my firestar. If you look
at
> >the engine from the end with the motor mount level with the bench the
carbs
> >are leaning down 3 or 5 degrees. The picture of the engine in the manual
> >show the carbs as being parallel with the motor mount. What have I done
> >wrong ?. The rubber carb sockets are installed as far as they can go so
> >there is no gap when you look in through the rubber socket to the cast
alum.
> >manifold. They appear to be tight. I even called the distributor of the
> >engine in BC and they told me the carbs should be level with the motor
> >mount. I have had it apart to check this 3 times. Does any body have a
> >recent version of a 503 engine with oil injection intake manifolds that
can
> >have look at their carb angle ?
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >
> >Dave Leaf
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Go check the Buzzman Web page
> http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetroublshooting/techtips/techtips1.htm
>
>
> Here what he is saying about the carb intake manifold.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Inverted installation problem with the Rotax dual
> carb 503 engines.
> If you are using a dual carb 503 in an inverted
> installation you must turn the aluminum intake manifolds
> over - once again the engine was designed to run
> spark plugs up. On the 503 dual carb the inlets -
> when the engine is upright have a slight upward
> incline. When you turn the engine over this incline is
> NOW down, which necessitates the removal of the
> intake, turning it 180 degrees and reinstalling it.
>
>
> Hope this help
> Lucien
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: My kolb purchase at last |
Gary r. voigt wrote:
>
>
> As some of you may remember quite a few months ago I
> posted an ad that I have wanted an ultralight since about
> 1980 but never had the guts or the timing was off, whatever
> the reason it just did not happen. It might even had been a
> blessing ( states Ralph burlingame of mound , mn.) early
> designs were just so,so. one person on your list even had
> the guts to say " if you havn't done it by now it will
> never happen. I kept this persons e-mail but I will not
> mention his name for the sake of embarrassment. he knows
> who he is. I have been just lurking at the list for over a
> year now, and I'am astounded at the wealth of information on
> the list. I have wanted to purchase a kit, but it was very
> time consuming. and my hobbies include, scuba diving through
> the ice, hunting , fishing , collecting antique john deere
> tractors and stationary gas engines, and golf. that's maybe
> why I never purchased one before. It seems even the ones
> that came up on the list were always about 1200 miles from
> mn. I have even bid on kolbs from the ebay site, not a good
> idea when your 1600 miles. well my ship finally came in. a
> 1995 kolb fs came up for sale a short time ago that is 95%
> built and about 50 hrs. to go on completion. It has a BRS
> chute, brakes, full winshield, ect. all I have to do is
> install the winshield, gauges and complete the wiring and
> instal the chute. this is where your help comes in, can you
> tell me where the best location is to place the chute or is
> this just a matter of preference. I would also like to know
> where there are some afi's or bfi's that owns a mark III and
> lives in the state of nd, sd, iowa, or wi. I need to take my
> training. Ralph, you will soon have another flying partner.
>
> thanks,
> Gary r. voigt
Contact BRS. They have things worked out for a host of different UL
designs. Better yet, take a trip to South St. Paul and talk to them in
person. Nice having a supplier located convenient.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
youngblood wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Leaf <705460(at)ican.net>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:34 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 carb
>
> >
> >Here is a unusual problem I am hoping someone on the list can help with.
> >I am putting together a new 503 DCDI engine fo
> >
> Yes my carb mounts are at a slight angle. Have seen some up and some angled
> down. Can't remember which way mine are right now.
> Barry FSII
The intake manifold on a 503 DCDI can be removed and mounted in
reverse. Which way it is mounted depends on whether engine is upright
or inverted.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Wittman crash |
Thanks for the clarification, Gil.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42Oldpoops)
>
>Richard Pike wrote:
>>
>>
>> If I remember right, Steve Wittman had used an older type technique when he
>> covered the wings of his airplane. The wings were all sheeted with thin
>> plywood, and then the fabric was used over the whole wood wing as a
>> finishing and smoothing layer.
(snip)
>> I am thinking (and could be wrong) that he glued the edges down with
>> Polytak, or it's equivalent, and then just used Polybrush everywhere else,
>> expecting the doping effect of the Poly-brush soaking through the Dacron
>> into the wood to hold the fabric in place. It didn't.
>> Richard Pike
>
>
>He used nitrate dope for this purpose instead of following the
>procedures outlined in the PolyFiber manual.
>
>gil leiter
>MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
ALL electro-magnetic radiation travels at the same
>velocity under all conditions and cannot either be speeded up or slowed
>down
The speed of light in a vacuum is constant but light has different speeds
through different media. that is how lenses bend light, by refraction.
defferent media also change wave length, reflect different wave lengths etc.
there is window glass available that stops transmission of 99% of uv and ir
light but regular glass does not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Gherkins" <rp3420(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
| Subject: | Mark III extra- Where did it go? |
Hey Kolbers,
Little has been said and seen of the new Mark III extra? I know last week we
had some pictures downloaded, but now they are not available(at least on my
system). Kolb has not updated their site with anything? I had told my uncle
with what little I heard on this site about the Mark III and he felt it was
time to order one up, sent in a check for the first kit.
I sure would like to show him some pictures of what he is buying. Can anyone help?!
Thanks,
Tim
building firestar II- looking for a good deal on a firestar fuselage kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul VonLindern <paulv(at)digisys.net> |
| Subject: | MkIII Static Port |
Ok all you MKIII drivers I am curious where a good static port location
is on a MKIII. I have mine straight out the nose about 6 inches and I
does not seem to work there. If I disconnect the line at the back of the
probe it ( Airspeed Indicator )seems to work OK.
What location have some of you folks used?
Paul V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MkIII Static Port |
In a message dated 00-04-21 12:00:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
paulv(at)digisys.net writes:
<< What location have some of you folks used?
>>
I went out and got a blade style piper pitot off a Cherokee. Think I paid
$10.00 for it at the fly mart at SNF. It has a nipple outlet for both ram air
and static. I riveted a small aluminum plate at the front of the frame to
mount it on. It sets at the back of the nose cone, offset to the side from
the back of the nose skid. Works great. Leaves the nose uncluttered, and the
way I have it mounted I can tip the nose all the way down onto the skid and
there is still plenty of clearance between the bottom of the blade and the
ground.
Mark Sellers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
I enjoy your messages a lot Gil, but this time I have to brace my feet a
bit. As Topher mentioned, light does travel at different speeds, etc.
Instead of 'slowed down', I should have said 'changes frequency.' U/V is
a high frequency radiation that goes right through ordinary car window
glass, but in so doing its' frequency is changed, or 'slowed down' to the
less energetic infra red, which can't penetrate glass, so is reflected back
on the inside, and is therefore trapped as heat, and parked cars get hotter
than H--- in the summer Specialty glasses I don't know about, except to
note that if you look at the windows of an energy efficient house at an
angle, they have a "sheen" kind of like an oil film on water. That must be
what he meant about u/v reflective glass. Now, if we could only adapt
that coating to our fabric, we just might have something.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ggleiter(at)minn.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
>
> Ron Hoyt wrote:
> >
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > Think of the sheet as a filter. It passes Blue since that is what you
see.
> > There is no reason to believe it doesn't also pass the adjacent color
UV
> > that you can't see. I do believe, however, that the sheet blocks all
light
> > to some degree and would expect some attenuation in the UV just because
of
> > the fabric threads.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Kolb-List: More Ultra Violet
> >
>
> > OK, for what it's worth, my understanding has always been this: U/V
will
> > penetrate glass, but in so doing it's slowed down (??) to infra-red
> > frequencies, which will not penetrate glass, and reflect back as heat.
This
> > is why a closed car gets so hot on a sunny day.
>
> Sure glad you put the (??) after "slowed down", because this is
> meaningless. ALL electro-magnetic radiation travels at the same
> velocity under all conditions and cannot either be speeded up or slowed
> down. The difference between UV and IR is a matter of wave length, with
> the shorter wave lengths (high frequency) being more energetic. This is
> not changed by passing through glass or any other media. Light as we
> think of it has a wide range of wave lengths from the long IR to the
> shorter UV. In traveling through a media some wavelengths are absorbed
> (media heats up) and/or reflected back.
>
> The fact that one cannot see light coming through a media does NOT
> insure that wavelengths outside the visible spectra are also blocked.
>
> gil leiter
> MAPLEWOOD, MN
>
>
> (Especially my
> > big-windowed, dark green T-Bird in the desert) So, on that premise, is
the
> > blue fabric eliminating the U/V on my tail feathers, or enhancing it ??
Or
> > will it make any difference ?? I think, just for my own peace of mind,
> > that I'm going to cut a chunk of plywood to cover them, and hide them
behind
> > it. I'm not sure how that translates to curing adhesives thru glass
with
> > U/V light, cause I've seen that work too, and I know you're right.
That's
> > the main factor in my deciding to really cover the fabric, and not take
a
> > chance. As far as the further coatings go, I'm pretty well committed to
the
> > full Poly-Fiber system. I should be able to fly for at least 10, and
maybe
> > as many as 15 more years, health and physical systems permitting, and if
> > properly done and cared for, the fabric should last that long - even
here in
> > Palm Springs summers. Wish I could talk Dad into leaving this awful
place,
> > but Mother's buried here, so that's the end of that.
> > Cautious Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
This reminds me: In my jar of MEK, it forms mushy white crystals that
are a nuisance. What are they anyway ?? Also, haven't had too much trouble
with the 'Tak, but I sure get a lot of lumps in the 'Brush. Some seem to
live in the brush, but others "appear." From where ?? I fully agree
they're a pain in the .........! ! ! How to eliminate them ??
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ggleiter(at)minn.net>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Covering
>
> Larry Bourne wrote:
> >
>
> Just sent out another post on this subject. Don't know what kind of a
> bottle you used, but the rite (pun intended) kind of bottle works very
> well indeed. Hole in end of snout was maybe 1/16". Believe source of
> the bottle was Revlon. In using this bottle I used much LESS PolyTak,
> with almost zero waste. Also, elimination of the lumps and gel slugs
> of dried PolyTak made for much easier iron working on the cemented
> surfaces..
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | World's lightest alternator . . . |
Response to the mini-article we did for an all electric
airplane on a budget has been strong. We've decided to stock
the world's lightest (3.5#) alternator as the low cost key
to a practical all electric panel.
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/alterntr/alterntr.html#sd8
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( The only time you don't fail is the last )
( time you try something, and it works. )
( One fails forward toward success. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WGeorge737(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MkIII Static Port |
In a message dated 4/21/00 5:00:42 PM, paulv(at)digisys.net writes:
<< Ok all you MKIII drivers I am curious where a good static port location
is on a MKIII. I have mine straight out the nose about 6 inches and I
does not seem to work there. If I disconnect the line at the back of the
probe it ( Airspeed Indicator )seems to work OK.
What location have some of you folks used? >>
After exhaustive tests I ended up with your configuration. The tubing is just
dangling near the very front of the nose cone. Airspeeds are now very
accurate.
Bill George
Mk-3 582 "C" Powerfin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ggleiter(at)minn.net |
| Subject: | Re: More Ultra Violet |
Christopher John Armstrong wrote:
>
>
> ALL electro-magnetic radiation travels at the same
> >velocity under all conditions and cannot either be speeded up or slowed
> >down
>
> The speed of light in a vacuum is constant but light has different speeds
> through different media. that is how lenses bend light, by refraction.
> defferent media also change wave length, reflect different wave lengths etc.
>
> there is window glass available that stops transmission of 99% of uv and ir
> light but regular glass does not.
You are certainly right about the change of velocity in media other than
vacuum. Got careless there. Three years after retirement and some of
the ability to think thoroughly before speaking seems to diminish.
Also agree with the rest EXCEPT for the changing of wavelength.
Disagree very strongly about that.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My kolb purchase at last |
In a message dated 4/20/00 10:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
johndeereantique(at)uswest.net writes:
<< can you
tell me where the best location is to place the chute or is
this just a matter of preference. >>
Gary, I know the preferred location for the chute is above the pilot in
several locations there, but I am always fearful that the only time I would
need it is when my wing falls off !! If that unheralded event should ever
happen, I can imagine that it would not fall off cleanly but still be
shabbily attached to part of where it is supposed to be, namely up above the
pilot ..approximately where the chute usually is!
There was an acrobatic circumstance in Disneyworld a long time ago when a
challenger pilot was performing acrobatics for the Disney show and his wing
popped up due to too much stress, I believe. It folded up against the other
wing as the plane began to descend and the pilot fired the chute!!
Unfortunately, the mortar that pulls the chute out of the canister somehow
got tangled up with some of the metal of the folded wing and the entire plane
and pilot was lost. The acrobatic show of the 5 Challengers at Disneyworld
was cancelled and to this day, I don't believe another one has ever been
reinstituted.
I have mounted my parachute under the gastank below the 5" tube for this very
reason. When my wing falls off, it won't fall down and my chute will have the
best chance of finding an area to deploy.
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
Dell, My catalogue shows two oil tubes.956-234 oil return and 956-235 oil
inflow.Return line is 155mm and inflow is 360mm.This is from California power
Systems catalogue.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Dell and Gang:
I used neoprene fuel line of the appropriate inside diameter
purchased locally at the auto parts house. Worked great.
Much cheaper than your friendly CPS Rotax dealer, or any
other Rotax dealer. :-)
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My kolb purchase at last |
thank you very much for the reply, it makes sense to me to have it mounted
where you say.
I think I will pay a visit to BRS here in st. paul and see if they can give me
the hardware to do so.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
GeoR38(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/20/00 10:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> johndeereantique(at)uswest.net writes:
>
> << can you
> tell me where the best location is to place the chute or is
> this just a matter of preference. >>
>
> Gary, I know the preferred location for the chute is above the pilot in
> several locations there, but I am always fearful that the only time I would
> need it is when my wing falls off !! If that unheralded event should ever
> happen, I can imagine that it would not fall off cleanly but still be
> shabbily attached to part of where it is supposed to be, namely up above the
> pilot ..approximately where the chute usually is!
> There was an acrobatic circumstance in Disneyworld a long time ago when a
> challenger pilot was performing acrobatics for the Disney show and his wing
> popped up due to too much stress, I believe. It folded up against the other
> wing as the plane began to descend and the pilot fired the chute!!
> Unfortunately, the mortar that pulls the chute out of the canister somehow
> got tangled up with some of the metal of the folded wing and the entire plane
> and pilot was lost. The acrobatic show of the 5 Challengers at Disneyworld
> was cancelled and to this day, I don't believe another one has ever been
> reinstituted.
> I have mounted my parachute under the gastank below the 5" tube for this very
> reason. When my wing falls off, it won't fall down and my chute will have the
> best chance of finding an area to deploy.
> GeoR38
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Kolb MKIII static port |
Paul VonLindern asked about where is a good place to put the static port.
There are probably lots of good places, but here is a picture of where I
put mine, and it works great.
Both the pitot and static tubes extend not quite as far forward as the end
of the nose cone, so they cannot be bumped by someone walking by.
The pitot tube has the end open, the static has the end closed, and then
holes drilled in it a little ways back, I hope the picture will make it
obvious.
Good luck
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm
[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm
[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm
Modified=20FDCEF901ACBF0151
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III extra- Where did it go? |
Tim,
Check out this web site
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/mark3x.htm
In a message dated 4/21/00 11:36:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rp3420(at)email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
> Hey Kolbers,
>
> Little has been said and seen of the new Mark III extra? I know last week
> we
> had some pictures downloaded, but now they are not available(at least on my
> system). Kolb has not updated their site with anything? I had told my
> uncle
> with what little I heard on this site about the Mark III and he felt it was
> time to order one up, sent in a check for the first kit.
> I sure would like to show him some pictures of what he is buying. Can
> anyone help?!
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
> building firestar II- looking for a good deal on a firestar fuselage kit.
Do not achieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Hundley" <rhundley(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: MK III for sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Hundley <rhundley(at)erols.com>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 5:19 PM
Subject: MK III for sale
> 1996 Mark III for Sale
>
>
> 70 hours TT
> Rotax 582 w/ electric start
> GSC 3 blade prop
> Full Enclosure
> Matco Hydraulic brakes and wheels
> Dual throttles
> Comtronics intercom and headsets
> Transceiver and CB radios
> Full instruments with Center console
>
>
> Aircraft is in Delaware. I will email pictures upon request.
> This is a beautiful airplane. Looks and flies great!
>
> Call Rick at 302-537-0939 or 703-447-5979 or email at rhundley(at)erols.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
Momma said there'd be days like this, she just didn't say there'd be so many
of them. Yesterday afternoon, I was working on the......Gap Seal ??
.........Center Section ??.......what is that thing called anyway, that goes
over your head, and between the wings on a Mk III, and is made of lexan ??
I think of a gap seal as being the tape between the wing and aileron, etc.
Anyway, I spilled some lexan solvent/glue on the rear part of the 'center
section.' Worrying about getting the paper off it doesn't matter any more,
cause it's ruined. The rear 2 1/2 ft. of it has a large white blotch that's
non-fixable. So now I have a couple of options. 1.- Buy a new chunk of
lexan, and make a replacement for the ruined portion. 2.- buy a piece of
thin aluminum and replace the same portion. Here's my questions:
when sitting in the pilot's seat, and entering a turn, how much of the "roof
" do you guys look thru, if any ?? Seems like the forward 1/3 is about all
that would be useful anyway, unless your head tips back a lot farther than
mine. I'm thinking that making the replacement part out of aluminum would
make a good ground plane for the radio antenna..............?? Or would it
be too close to the engine, and its' electrical noise ?? If I use the
aluminum, how thin can I get away with ?? Or should I ask, how thick should
I go. What a tremendous burn ! ! ! You shoulda heard the squalling when
that damned bottle tipped over and spilled. Aaaaaaaaarrrrrggh ! ! !
Steaming Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
>
Here's my questions:
>when sitting in the pilot's seat, and entering a turn, how much of the "roof
>" do you guys look thru, if any ??
None.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
Here's my questions:
> when sitting in the pilot's seat, and entering a turn, how much of the "roof
> " do you guys look thru, if any ??
> Steaming Lar.
Steaming Lar and Gang:]
Forgot to answer your question in the previous post.
I rarely look up thru the center section in a turn. In my
airplane I cannot use but the forward half anyhow. Sheet
metal last much longer than Lexan and is impervious to
gasoline. Not so Lexan. I have ruined center section and
windshield because of spilled fuel.
Antenna may be a little close to the engine back there. I
always put the antenna under the nose of my Kolbs, as far
from the engine as I can get it, plus the fuselage seperates
the two. I guess I could put the antenna out on a wing tip,
but don't want to do that. Takes too much coax cable.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wood <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
gosh Lar
How can you keep getting yourself in trouble. A cheap and simple fix would
be to just paint the damm thing. You won't lose a lot of visability. On my
MK X I will have a permanent gap seal. The center section will remain on the
airframe at all times. There will be a 2" pad of closed cell foam glued and
covered on the side of the gap seal ( exact shape of the airfoil). When the
wings are folded There will be about 1/4" of squash to keep things sealed
tight. There will be a cut out underneath so I can put in the pins but they
should not affect the aerodynamics.Nothing to take off and nothing to put
on.Slicker n' snot on a door knob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <larrybiglar(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
Yah, I'm doing the same thing, but mine is made of lexan; a rectangle with
a large "D" cut out of it, and a turned up tail. It will be rivetted to the
underside of the center section, and serve the same function as yours. I
made the lexan in 2 pieces to save material, and was joining the chamfered
joints when my little "accident" occurred. "Paint the damn thing."
S.O.a.B. Of all the simple, no brainer solutions ! ! ! Why didn't I
think of that ?? Must mean ya need brains. Oh well. Thanks. And thanks
to all who replied. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: wood <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Center Section
>
> gosh Lar
>
> How can you keep getting yourself in trouble. A cheap and simple fix
would
> be to just paint the damm thing. You won't lose a lot of visability. On my
> MK X I will have a permanent gap seal. The center section will remain on
the
> airframe at all times. There will be a 2" pad of closed cell foam glued
and
> covered on the side of the gap seal ( exact shape of the airfoil). When
the
> wings are folded There will be about 1/4" of squash to keep things sealed
> tight. There will be a cut out underneath so I can put in the pins but
they
> should not affect the aerodynamics.Nothing to take off and nothing to put
> on.Slicker n' snot on a door knob.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Annual Maintenance |
Too windy to fly today so I worked on my "annual".
Changed the plugs. The old ones had thin black/brown coat after 14 Hrs.
After replacing the all fuel lines, the squeeze pump and the filter I could
not get the 477 to start. Bled the fuel lines in, resolved the primer pump
connection error (the crooked port is the inlet),...still no luck. Finally
found that the engine shutdown / parachute deployment switch had been
activated. The seatback cushion had been moved for access to a terminal strip
behind the seat and had bumped the switch to the shutdown position. The chute
safety pin was in place so there was no possibility of the chute firing.
Anyway... the engine started on the first pull.
Checked prop bolt torque and prop run-out and found that IVO to be right on
track, dead center. Checked the output of my Key West power converter and
found it to be 13 to 14 volts (no load). I'll change that puppy out for my
new Kuntzleman when I figure out how to mount the Kuntzleman.
Checked the fuel pump discharge pressure and got 3.9 to 4.6 psi. My best
trick so far was to use a spigmomanometer ( the ones used to take your blood
pressure) gage to determine the fuel pressure. The gage is calibrated in
mm/Hg and I wanted psi. I went to my ever-present engineers handbook found
the conversion factor and .... It worked! I had tried to buy a real fuel
pressure gage at S'nF but the good ones were too expensive.
I still have to remove the exhaust manifold for a rough check of the rings
and any possible scuffing. I'll lube the exhaust flex joints and inspect the
rubber isolators on the muffler bracket while I'm at it.
The air frame and fabric are next but they get checked pretty well during
preflight. This will be a two man check just to make sure.
I don't want to wear my plane out testing it but it is nice to know she in
good shape when I'm over areas where emergency landing spots are now
continuously available.
Flame away, Duane the plane in Tallahassee, Fire Fly, 447, IVO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Maintenance |
Ok What is the conversion factor for the fuel pressure to mm/hg?? Just
gotta know. Will be very useful for the same reasons you just gave regarding
cost of gages.
Bob Kearbey Kolb MKIII (52BK)
---- Original Message -----
From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:33 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Annual Maintenance
>
> Too windy to fly today so I worked on my "annual".
>
> Changed the plugs. The old ones had thin black/brown coat after 14 Hrs.
>
> After replacing the all fuel lines, the squeeze pump and the filter I
could
> not get the 477 to start. Bled the fuel lines in, resolved the primer pump
> connection error (the crooked port is the inlet),...still no luck.
Finally
> found that the engine shutdown / parachute deployment switch had been
> activated. The seatback cushion had been moved for access to a terminal
strip
> behind the seat and had bumped the switch to the shutdown position. The
chute
> safety pin was in place so there was no possibility of the chute firing.
> Anyway... the engine started on the first pull.
>
> Checked prop bolt torque and prop run-out and found that IVO to be right
on
> track, dead center. Checked the output of my Key West power converter and
> found it to be 13 to 14 volts (no load). I'll change that puppy out for my
> new Kuntzleman when I figure out how to mount the Kuntzleman.
>
> Checked the fuel pump discharge pressure and got 3.9 to 4.6 psi. My best
> trick so far was to use a spigmomanometer ( the ones used to take your
blood
> pressure) gage to determine the fuel pressure. The gage is calibrated in
> mm/Hg and I wanted psi. I went to my ever-present engineers handbook found
> the conversion factor and .... It worked! I had tried to buy a real fuel
> pressure gage at S'nF but the good ones were too expensive.
>
> I still have to remove the exhaust manifold for a rough check of the rings
> and any possible scuffing. I'll lube the exhaust flex joints and inspect
the
> rubber isolators on the muffler bracket while I'm at it.
>
> The air frame and fabric are next but they get checked pretty well during
> preflight. This will be a two man check just to make sure.
>
> I don't want to wear my plane out testing it but it is nice to know she in
> good shape when I'm over areas where emergency landing spots are now
> continuously available.
>
> Flame away, Duane the plane in Tallahassee, Fire Fly, 447, IVO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Fletcher" <bwf(at)emailmn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Maintenance |
In of Mercury X .4912 = pounds /sq in
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Annual Maintenance
>
> Ok What is the conversion factor for the fuel pressure to mm/hg?? Just
> gotta know. Will be very useful for the same reasons you just gave
regarding
> cost of gages.
>
> Bob Kearbey Kolb MKIII (52BK)
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:33 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Annual Maintenance
>
>
> >
> > Too windy to fly today so I worked on my "annual".
> >
> > Changed the plugs. The old ones had thin black/brown coat after 14 Hrs.
> >
> > After replacing the all fuel lines, the squeeze pump and the filter I
> could
> > not get the 477 to start. Bled the fuel lines in, resolved the primer
pump
> > connection error (the crooked port is the inlet),...still no luck.
> Finally
> > found that the engine shutdown / parachute deployment switch had been
> > activated. The seatback cushion had been moved for access to a terminal
> strip
> > behind the seat and had bumped the switch to the shutdown position. The
> chute
> > safety pin was in place so there was no possibility of the chute firing.
> > Anyway... the engine started on the first pull.
> >
> > Checked prop bolt torque and prop run-out and found that IVO to be right
> on
> > track, dead center. Checked the output of my Key West power converter
and
> > found it to be 13 to 14 volts (no load). I'll change that puppy out for
my
> > new Kuntzleman when I figure out how to mount the Kuntzleman.
> >
> > Checked the fuel pump discharge pressure and got 3.9 to 4.6 psi. My best
> > trick so far was to use a spigmomanometer ( the ones used to take your
> blood
> > pressure) gage to determine the fuel pressure. The gage is calibrated in
> > mm/Hg and I wanted psi. I went to my ever-present engineers handbook
found
> > the conversion factor and .... It worked! I had tried to buy a real fuel
> > pressure gage at S'nF but the good ones were too expensive.
> >
> > I still have to remove the exhaust manifold for a rough check of the
rings
> > and any possible scuffing. I'll lube the exhaust flex joints and inspect
> the
> > rubber isolators on the muffler bracket while I'm at it.
> >
> > The air frame and fabric are next but they get checked pretty well
during
> > preflight. This will be a two man check just to make sure.
> >
> > I don't want to wear my plane out testing it but it is nice to know she
in
> > good shape when I'm over areas where emergency landing spots are now
> > continuously available.
> >
> > Flame away, Duane the plane in Tallahassee, Fire Fly, 447, IVO
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: spilled beans |
Oh, boy. I really feel for you guys spilling stuff. I had a good one happen
last week. An old friend of mine, age 81, was working on an R/C plane and
needed something to seal his fabric, used dope but just needed a little and
did not want to spend five bucks for a bottle. I opened my gal of poly
brush, 3/4 full and gave him a few onces. I put the top back on and stored
it in the cupboard above the sink in the kitchen of my trailer I use for
building. About two days later, I went in and there was a streak of poly
coming down from the cabinet into the sink. ALL of the poly was gone. It
had drained down the drain and almost melted everyting. It never melted
through - I wonder why not - but it did leave all the PVC soft and pliable.
Now, if it starts leaking I will have to replace the whole gambit. Lost
almost a gal of brush. Now, here is the good part, it melted the guys fabric
and loosened it from the balsa where it was attached and he has to start over
again. It really pays to be a nice guy some times. I guess it is only made
for stits products. G'day Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: spilled beans |
Stits is not dope. It is like dope, but it is not dope.
>From your experiment, now we know:
It is especially not like model airplane dope.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)
>
>Oh, boy. I really feel for you guys spilling stuff. I had a good one happen
>last week. An old friend of mine, age 81, was working on an R/C plane and
>needed something to seal his fabric, used dope but just needed a little and
>did not want to spend five bucks for a bottle. I opened my gal of poly
>brush, 3/4 full and gave him a few onces. I put the top back on and stored
>it in the cupboard above the sink in the kitchen of my trailer I use for
>building. About two days later, I went in and there was a streak of poly
>coming down from the cabinet into the sink. ALL of the poly was gone. It
>had drained down the drain and almost melted everyting. It never melted
>through - I wonder why not - but it did leave all the PVC soft and pliable.
>Now, if it starts leaking I will have to replace the whole gambit. Lost
>almost a gal of brush. Now, here is the good part, it melted the guys fabric
>and loosened it from the balsa where it was attached and he has to start over
>again. It really pays to be a nice guy some times. I guess it is only made
>for stits products. G'day Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MitchMnD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Maintenance |
Kearbey et al: The conversion factor for psi to mm/Hg is 51.7. Thanks for
asking. I always wonder if there are any fellow gearheads out there reading
my posts.
Keep 'em flying, Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FireFly, SN007, 447, IVO,
big wheels.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust temp fine tuneing prop |
> i started up the 912 again today first to test the change i
> did to the needle adjustment in the carb. i was having
> high exhaust temps on the left side of the engine the last
> time i ran the engine so i lowered the clip on the needle
> boyd
Good Morning Boyd and Kolbers:
If I understand you correctly, needle adjustment was made to
one carb only. I would not recommend changing one carb
without also making the same change to the other. The 912
engine is run at the factory for 30 min. Everything is
adjusted correctly at the factory, except balancing
(syunchronizing) the two carbs. Just a WAG, but sounds like
you may have a carb sync problem rather than mixture
problem. If you change the fuel needle setting (controls
midrange mixture) on one carb, do the same to the second
carb. Eric Tucker told me that the 912 is tuned right on
the lean "edge" in midrange. I have found that at temps
below 50 or 60F the 912 will get too lean and start acting
up, i.e., feel like it is going to come out of the engine
mounts at times. Sometimes it will be more subtle, the
engine just doesn't feel sharp. When I detect this, I pull
on the enricher. If the rpm goes up it indicates I am too
lean in midrange and the fuel needles need to be raised a
notch. Seems if you use a more open free breathing exhaust
system the midrange problem is more pronounced.
The 912 is very fuel sensitive. If it is not getting as
much to drink as it wants it will definitely let you know.
3800 to 4800 is midrange where the engine is tuned on the
lean edge.
I do not use an egt on the 912 and do not intend to use one
on the 912S. First, I would not get to upset because the
egt's are not tracking identically. I personally do not
believe this is that important. If there is a wide gap
between readings, I'd check to see if my gauges were
calibrated and accurate throughout their entire scale.
Probably not. Then I would insure that carbs are in synch.
I do not operate in the 3800 to 4800 rpm range. My low
cruise is 5000 rpm.
Hope this helps you out a bit.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel consumption |
In a message dated 4/23/00 10:47:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com writes:
<< i
climb out at about 6400rpm , but still have to cruise at about
48-5000rpm. to pace him. I can adjust the pitch some more but my take
off rpm will be lower.>>
I wouldn"t change a thing. If you go for a lower cruise rpm you will hurt
your short field takeoff. Besides, 2 strokes don't like to run too slow;
below 5000rpm you will be running rich and will carbon up pretty fast.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
Biglar,
Try WD-40 on test scrap--to get old tape off.
bn shade tree mech
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel consumption |
In a message dated 4/23/00 1:31:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Since I use
a synthetic oil mix, I don't get the carbon buildup that others do on
this list. I checked my spark plugs last night after a day of flying and >>
Hi, Ralph. What type of synthetic are you using. I have just about talked
myself into switching from Pennzoil. I know synthetic is more expensive, but
to not have to de-carbon seems like a good trade.
Howard Shackleford
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel consumption |
Howard, I'm using Klotz Snowmobile TechniPlate TC-W3 KL-216 and can be
ordered by calling 1-800-242-0489. It's $125.07 including shipping to
your door for 4 gallons. The website is: http://www.klotzlube.com/
I'm not a dealer for this.
Ralph
Original FireStar
>
> In a message dated 4/23/00 1:31:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> writes:
>
> << Since I use
> a synthetic oil mix, I don't get the carbon buildup that others do
> on
> this list. I checked my spark plugs last night after a day of
> flying and >>
>
> Hi, Ralph. What type of synthetic are you using. I have just about
> talked
> myself into switching from Pennzoil. I know synthetic is more
> expensive, but
> to not have to de-carbon seems like a good trade.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS I
> SC
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb MKIII Wheel Pants |
In a message dated 4/23/00 9:41:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard(at)BCChapel.org writes:
<< Would there be any interest in adding another page to my MKIII Tweaks and
Hints site showing how to mount wheel fenders, what the brackets look like,
modifying the axle nut into a bracket, etc? >>
Definitely
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel consumption |
Jack,there are 4 Kolbs in Akron area now if you count D. Zollinger in Rittman
and me in Portage Lakes.I've flown into Zollingers strip several times,first
March 31, 2000 - April 23, 2000
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ca